IRC log of #meego for Tuesday, 2010-07-20

gert_I wonder if it will be as bad in the EU00:00
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AstralStormthe patents? nah, they're granted a bit smarter00:00
AstralStormthere are more crosschecks too00:00
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gert_I found quite a few hits for the impedance-thingy when i found it was called an attenuator somewhere btw.00:10
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gert_But now I must sleep, and maybe continue my search for a useless tablet tomorrow. :P00:11
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:27
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mndaris the meego user interface we see, a window manager or just an application written using  Clutter/Mx ?00:45
bpeelmndar: on the netbook ?00:46
mndaryes00:46
bpeelthe user interface includes a window manager and some applications that get embedded in the panel00:46
mndarso the panel and the floating 'widgets' are written in/using Gtk? Clutter/Mx ?00:47
bpeelyes00:47
bpeelalso the window manager uses clutter to do the compositing00:48
mndaris gtk used anywhere?00:49
aukenot in the main UX00:50
aukethere are some legacy gtk applications, but they're not part of the meego netbook UX00:50
w00t_r00:50
w00t_oops00:50
lynxisn900@meego : searching for a solution. i ran into problems, because the kernel does not recognize the sdcard. just the mmc card. changing the rootpart to mmcblk1p1 does not help.00:52
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mndarbpeel, auke: thanks00:54
aukelynxis: you might have problems with the mmc driver being async. try booting with 'rootwait' on the kernel cmdline00:55
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lynxisauke: using root=/dev/mmcblk1p1 rootwait  its waiting for mmcblk1p . but found only 32gig, not the external sd.01:02
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tmztmaybe try /dev/mmcblk0p1?01:03
lynxisnow it work. as long the cover is removed, it wont access mmc0 (sdcard) and is using mmc1 (32gig) for mmcblk001:03
lynxisthank auke01:03
lynxisthank you auke01:03
aukeglad that works!01:03
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lynxisdoes somebody got a serial cable for n900 ? search for a place to buy or a howto to build01:05
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odin_serial ?  you want to debug the n900 (like kernel) or you want to configure your router from n900 ?01:06
aukeit's a standard micro-B cable01:06
aukemicro-b usb cable, that is01:06
odin_ls -l01:07
aukebin etc sbin tmp01:07
lynxisi want to debug the kernel. thought under the battery there were jtag & serial01:07
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aukeah01:08
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odin_yes I think there is some kind of serial for that but the recipe maybe top secret01:08
aukeI suppose you can get a usb<->serial converter and use that01:09
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aukebut you'd have to get your n900 kernel to support that as console for debugging01:09
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aukebut, I'm not an n900 expert01:11
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lynxisi will use a oszi for it. do you have seen this ? http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf01:16
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xotahi guys! I'm testing meego 1 in a HP 5101. I've tested this: http://slaine.org/_slaine/Meego_1.0_Wifi.html to get the wifi card work, and it works but it can't associate to my AP (with WEP key)01:56
xotaI'm trying to install ndiswrapper (I used this in another distros), but I can't find it to meego, any help please?01:56
slaineI'm not sure WEP is supported by connman01:57
slainedon't think it has anything to do with the drivers as installed as they're broadcoms01:58
xotaWEP is the simplest key... are you sure?01:58
xotago try ok?01:58
xotaI will disconnect and then show you the result01:58
slaineI'm off to bed now I'm afraid01:58
slaineI've to catch a flight in 5 hours01:58
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xotaok, nevermind, I will test it anyway. thanks for the info01:59
slaineI used to use WEP on Moblin 2.1 with the same drivers actually02:00
slainebut I moved over to WPA once the laptop that was stuck on WEP eventually died02:00
slaineThere is also a #connman channel02:00
aukeWEP and WPA(2) are supported by connman02:01
slainethey might have some more details on how to debug your connection02:01
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aukethere seem to be problems with access points that don't broadcast their SSID02:01
xotait's strange because it appears to work perfectly02:01
aukei.e. hidden SSID's02:01
xotaauke: it's showed02:01
aukeok02:01
xotait have a space in the name, could be the problem?02:02
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xotahas*02:02
slainesorry I can't hang around I'm afraid, sorry02:02
xotano problem slaine, good flight!02:02
aukeshouldn't. but try to change the key to one without a space :)02:02
slainelaters02:02
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aukexota: if that works, I suggest you file a connman bug :)02:02
xotano auke, the key is without spaces02:02
xotathe ssid have a space02:02
xotago try to change it02:03
aukeah02:03
aukeplease do02:03
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xotahi! no luck with the test, I open the wifi (no-key) and change the ssid to one withou spaces but it still unassociated02:13
xotaanybody can say me the name that the nick that was talking with me before disconnect? I don't have history in irssi02:16
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ThordasinHi, i'm blind and and i'm trying to get my n900 to talk, i don't mind useing something broken for now to develop on and my question is, does meego have text consoles active with a frame buffer?  In other words could i get a kernel module for speakup working on the meego 1.0 or 1.08 prefereable the 1.0 without the xwindows stuff added.05:22
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GAN900Thordasin, I can't speak directly to experience with it.06:10
GAN900Thordasin, but MeeGo should be much easier to make work for your purposes than Maemo.06:11
GAN900Thordasin, although I suspect things are a bit early yet for the N900 hardware support to really make it useful.06:11
Thordasinthanks for the input, really as i understand it the screen, keyboard and wireless are working, is this correct?06:13
GAN900Thordasin, wireless is sort of working.06:14
GAN900Thordasin, cellular and GPS are not.06:14
GAN900Thordasin, I'd recommend emailing the MeeGo-dev list and/or asking your question during European/US working hours.06:15
Thordasin*chuckle* whats does sorta working men :) can i get an ssh session going?06:15
GAN900Thordasin, as there will be more people with direct knowledge on then.06:15
GAN900Thordasin, bugs that cause connection flakiness06:16
Thordasini sure will, do you know how far they are ahead of us?06:16
GAN900Thordasin, Finnland.06:16
GAN900Which is +2 UTC06:16
GAN900s/Finnland/Finland/06:17
Thordasini never was good with time i'm in −6 utc so they are 8 ahead or behind?06:17
GAN900Thordasin, the Intel team is mosly in Washington.06:18
GAN900Thordasin, ahead.06:18
GAN9005:18 or so there now.06:18
ThordasinONE LAST QUEST AND I'LL LEAVE YOU BE :) I NOTICE THE IMAGE BUILDER USES RPM'S ARE THEY USEING A FEDORA PORT?06:19
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GAN900Thordasin, no, MeeGo's its own upstream.06:19
GAN900It's not based on any other distro06:19
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GAN900(although it shares some traits with some, including Fedora)06:20
ThordasinSO EVERYTHING WILL HAVE TO BE PORTED NEW, YOU CAN'T USE ANY OF THE ARMEL STUFF FROM FEDORA RIGHT?06:20
swc|666I CAN'T HEAR YOU, CAN YOU SPEAK UP PLZ?06:21
GAN900Porting workload shouldn't be overwhelming.06:21
Thordasini asume my caps lock was stuck?? i'm blind and didn't notice *smile*06:21
GAN900swc|666, presumably he can't see. . . .06:21
GAN900Yeah. :P06:21
swc|666lol06:22
GAN900Thordasin, I don't believe it'll be more worse than porting from Debian to Ubuntu or Debian to Maemo.06:22
GAN900Although my expertise in this area is quite limited.06:22
* GAN900 is a community guy06:23
swc|666is meego using busybox or no?06:23
Thordasinwell i really appreciate you takeing the time to give me this info, i'll try and get up early tommorrow and catch the developers :)06:23
GAN900Thordasin, no problem. And good luck. :)06:23
GAN900Personally I find the idea of a blind-accessible smartphone badass.06:24
GAN900swc|666, I think it depends on the UX.06:24
Thordasinthanks, i'll give you a shout on here and tell you how i've done if i make any progress :)06:25
Thordasinthere actually are a couple of them now the iphone has voice over buil-in and the android phones come with talkback built-in06:26
GAN900Yes, but one that's not evil and/or closed. :P06:27
Thordasinand of course there are screen readers you can purchase for windows mobile symbian and black berries06:27
Thordasintrue thats why i want to start with meego from the ground up to try and get something we can make free and open.06:28
Thordasinheck i'd be thrilled just to have text consoles with speakup on my n900 so i can have a pocket linux :)06:29
Thordasinwell g-night guys i'm gonna crash so i can get up early and hit this channel again :)06:30
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Myrttiörrörörörör07:31
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Stskeepsmorning Myrtti07:59
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StskeepsThordasin: i'd look into the capabilities of Qt - at least http://qt.nokia.com/about/news/archive/00000176/ discusses this topic. handset UX is built upon qt and libmeegotouch so maybe it can be modded sufficiently08:06
RST38hheya Sts, Myrtti08:06
Stskeepsmorn RST38h08:06
RST38hSts: My prayers have been answered: Grilo plugin for MAFW lets you brwse the file system for music, finally =)08:07
Stskeepsah08:07
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embeddedHi all!08:09
Thordasinstskeeps, thanks much i will read that right away.  do you know if meego boots into a text console now?08:10
StskeepsThordasin: well, depending on device and .ks08:11
Thordasinwell what i have is an n900 and i'd love to get it to boot into a text console with the speakup module added to the kernel.08:11
StskeepsThordasin: for nokia n900 we're booting into UX but it's a one-liner to get it booting into a prompt instead08:12
embeddedmay I make a question relating the Maemo OS since in the proper channel nobody can reply to it?08:12
Stskeepsembedded: kinda off topic here08:12
Termanaembedded, everyone here is most likely in the Maemo channel, except for the moblin and Intel people08:13
StskeepsThordasin: how hacker-ish are you?08:13
Thordasini thought i was pretty good until i tried to get orca running in maemo :)08:14
embeddedI know, but since nobody can help me in that channel I went here to get help08:14
Stskeepswhat backend does speakup use? ALSA?08:15
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Stskeeps(for sound)08:15
hariprajanhello08:16
Stskeepshi08:16
hariprajanI trying to install openvg in meego08:16
slonopotamusThordasin: making _anything_ running in maemo is a challenge (without clear feel of satisfaction)08:16
Stskeepshariprajan: what platform? X86, ARM?08:16
hariprajanShivavg insalled and it's working fine08:16
hariprajanx8608:17
StskeepsThordasin: are you by chance capable of getting a fedora vm or the likes? the tools for making boot images are rather fedora-specific08:17
Thordasinyes it uses alsa08:17
Thordasinwell actually i take that back, speakup can use hardware synth on the serial ports or it can use speech dispatcher, which i believe can use alsa or pulse08:18
hariprajanmy issue is which implementation of openvg does meego support?08:18
Stskeepshariprajan: that's a good question - worth sending to meego-dev@meego.com i beleive08:18
hariprajanthanks your help08:18
hariprajanI am doing meego testing08:18
Thordasinyes, i've read the instuctions and have found a speak modiefed fedora 1308:18
StskeepsThordasin: do you know which kernel config options have to be enabled for speakup?08:19
hariprajanthanks your help , I will send a mail to them08:19
hariprajanI found that meego repositery having Openvg libraries and it is missing now08:20
Thordasinstskeeps, no i'm not usre which ones are required, i haven't built a kernel in gosh 6 years now i used to do it very often, i've been useing linux sin 199308:21
StskeepsThordasin: feel free to join #meego-arm , which is where people sit who port things to ARM and specifically, the n900 port development team sits there08:21
Thordasincool be right there08:22
hariprajanI have another issue in meego , I can't play audio cd in meego , and it is not detecting "NTFS" file system, after installing NTFS-3G files , it works fine08:22
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StskeepsThordasin: but i think your use case is entirely possible. my initial worry is that some things might require some kind of x server connection, not so much for ui, but for dbus communication etc08:23
Stskeepsdo you know of any things like xterm with speakup, as that might be easier to accomplish?08:23
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hariprajanhi08:27
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slonopotamushariprajan: you quit for 1 minute. why say hi again?08:41
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qxyzHi guys09:12
qxyzIs repo.meego.com down ?09:12
qxyzI was busy upgrading from there and now I can't seem to connect to it again09:12
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ChildOfGod I downloaded the meego SDK as mentioned in http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux but I see most of the panel related packages names as moblin-panel-* inside it. Should it not be meego-panel-* instead?09:16
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ChildOfGodWhat is penge?09:29
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FunkyPenguinum is there something up with repo.meego.com? i cant get to it for some reason10:18
Stskeepsyeah, same problem here10:18
Stskeepsthere's mirrors at kernel.org or something10:18
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fabohow submit request are reviewed ? in submit order ?10:50
Stskeepsi guess, unless a certain order is asked - obs will sort things out normally10:51
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fabomy sr is still pending10:52
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heliocastromornning11:26
heliocastroSomeone is using meego-sdk with fedora 13 ?11:27
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ChildOfGodWhere can I find some sample code that uses mx?11:37
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lbtfabo: #ping11:45
fabolbt: pong11:47
lbtI've upped the OBS community worker size and triggered a Qt rebuild11:48
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lbtFYI... when it finishes the xen chroot writes the packages to swap to pass them back to the host...11:48
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lbtit was running out of swap space11:49
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fabolbt: does it means you should increase swap size ?11:50
lbtyes.. done it11:50
lbtfor i in  /dev/OBS/worker_swap*; do lvextend -L 2G $i; done11:50
* lbt loves lvm11:50
Stskeepshow many terabyte are we up at in potential space now? :P11:50
lbtheh... we have a miserly 400Gb11:51
fabowell, Qt is one of the bigger beast .oO(until you intend to build openoffice.org) ;)11:51
lbtand ?chrome11:51
fabohow much does it take chrome ?11:51
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lbtdunno - apparently it is one of the 400Mb src tarball ones11:52
lbtit's the reason we can't have remote builds against meego.com from the community OBS :(11:53
fabodunno how it is built, but using system libs instead embedded copy should reduce the size11:53
lcuklbt has this obs got the tricks and speedups you started for doing the qt builds when first discussing obs a few months ago?11:53
lcuki recall qt was a big lump of an all day build11:54
lbtlcuk: not quite yet11:54
lbtthey're on the meego.com OBS11:54
lbtand we need to redo them for Fremantle and Harmattan11:54
fabo=> Build needed 01:32:49, 6416504k disc space11:54
lcukfabo, thats a bit excessive for helloworld :p11:55
faboit's chrome ;)11:55
lbtbig font11:55
lcukok then Html>helloworld</html> :p11:55
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JaffaMorning, all11:56
lbtI'm thinking we need to find a way to do an x86 build of MeeGo now...11:56
lbtwho's in?11:56
Stskeepsedit glibc spec, gcc and click 'rebuild'?11:56
lbtStskeeps: yeah... but its the feed and watering11:57
tmzthandset ux?11:57
lbtand setting up project structures11:57
Stskeepslbt: 'best' thing would be to do it based on meego releases, i guess11:57
lbtdo we just duplicate the MeeGo ones11:57
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lbtStskeeps: yes...11:57
Stskeepslike, 1.0, 1.111:57
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lbtI don't know how our poor 16CPU box will cope building all of MeeGo though11:58
lbtHi Jaffa :)#11:59
lbthmmm smiley ^^ with a goatee12:00
w00t_:)~12:00
lbtfrench goatee12:00
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Aardoh, goatee, not goatse.12:05
w00t_vital difference, there12:05
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* lbt refrains from starting a new set of smilies .... :O12:06
w00t_<O<12:06
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Aardlbt: there's already one: (_O_)12:09
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ChildOfGodI need some help on mx. Is there some sample code available somewhere?12:13
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ChildOfGodThe best place to learn mx is the tests directory in the mx source code.12:37
townxelliotChildOfGod: you might find this useful - http://moblin.org/documentation/moblin-sdk/coding-tutorials/building-pdf-viewer-in-c12:39
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ChildOfGodtownxelliot: wow, thanks :)12:40
townxelliotChildOfGod: much of the technology is deprecated (like the Linux Project Generator), and the Mx API may have changed a bit (though I did check that tutorial over in June, I think), but hopefully there's some useful stuff in there12:41
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ChildOfGodok.12:41
townxelliotChildOfGod: some of the old Moblin sample code may also be useful: http://git.moblin.org/moblin-sdk-examples12:42
townxelliotChildOfGod: sorry, http://git.moblin.org/cgit.cgi/moblin-sdk-examples/12:43
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Jaffalcuk: Replied to your "smart unionfs" idea with an article I was just reading in LWN13:00
lcuk\o great jaffa just opened it now13:01
* lcuk settles down with a coffee to read13:01
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amjadis it only me or repo.meego.com is down??13:24
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ChildOfGodamjad: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/repo.meego.com13:31
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amjadthanks ChildofGod, it is down13:32
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Kompois there an irc channel for meegotouch development/developers? i don't see any action in #meegotouch on freenode13:46
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w00t_Kompo: good question, I don't know where they hang out.. might be an idea to send a mail to the ML and ask whether there is anything set up13:47
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InformatiQabout kickstarter14:09
InformatiQdoes anyone know if there is a tool to write the yaml files?14:10
sandsmarkvim? :-)14:11
ChildOfGodhttp://search.cpan.org/~andya/Data-YAML-0.0.6/lib/Data/YAML/Writer.pm14:11
ChildOfGodperl module14:12
InformatiQwell i was hoping for something along the lines of converting a ks file to a yaml file14:12
InformatiQor a kickstarter specific tool14:12
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tmztis telepathy-ring officially part of meego and is this the main source repo?14:18
tmzthttp://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/telepathy-ring14:18
Stskeepsyes, yes14:18
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Stskeepsofono based14:18
tmztcool, was this called something before?14:18
tmztlike robots stuff14:18
Stskeepsi think it's telepathy-ring from maemo5 remade for ofono14:19
tmzthah, I might know some people who would add fso2 support if there's any interest, or making it modular enough to support both14:19
ScottishDuckSo... meego can do calls on n900 now?14:19
Stskeepsworking on it, a lot of kernel patches to go in, plugin updates, etc14:20
ScottishDuckright14:20
tmztwhat is librtcom?14:20
ScottishDuckBeta is set for august, right?14:20
luistheey i need some information about garage... i install an application correctly, but when i remove it, it leaves the dependencies installed... how can i prevent that? can i pass 2 tags "package" in garage_data.xml to force install/remove these 2 packages?14:22
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InformatiQwin 314:31
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koupsaahello, meego repositories down ?14:35
amjadyes koupsaa14:36
Stskeepsseems so, mirrors exist14:36
koupsaaok thx, it's difficult to setup mirrors ?14:38
Stskeepsi thought repo was load balanced actually14:39
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koupsaait is because of success,  :)14:42
koupsaameego success14:43
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lbtright.. food14:58
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luistheey i need some information about garage... i install an application correctly, but when i remove it, it leaves the dependencies installed... how can i prevent that? can i pass 2 tags "package" in garage_data.xml to force install/remove these 2 packages?15:25
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slonopotamusluist: use nonbroken package manager15:29
slonopotamusluist: apt doesn't correctly handle deps removal15:29
slonopotamuserr15:30
* slonopotamus checks channel name15:30
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luistslonopotamus, uh? isnt zypper the default?15:45
slonopotamusluist: i messed up channels a bit :) can't say anything about zypper15:45
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Macerso. meego worth trying yet? ;)15:53
Stskeepsnot this week on arm15:54
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MacerStskeeps: ok thanks16:10
Macernew episodes of eureka16:10
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FunkyPenguinDawnFoster, any news on the compliance program?16:20
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DawnFosterFunkyPenguin: I'll have to check. Quite a few people have been out on holiday this month, so I'm not sure exactly where we are with it.16:25
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DawnFosterI'm hoping to get it on the next TSG agenda for Aug 4 (assuming it's ready for approval)16:26
FunkyPenguinDawnFoster, ok thanks - the trademark restrictions for themeing/icons have some major implications16:27
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DawnFosterFunkyPenguin: We do have the trademark guidelines if that helps: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/linux-foundation-trademark-usage-guidelines16:29
DawnFosterReminder: we have a community office meeting in #meego-meeting starting in 30 minutes. Anyone can join. Agenda here: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings16:31
FunkyPenguinDawnFoster, thanks, but according to the rather sparse License file in say moblin-icon-theme i have to comply with the Trademark which asks for compliance16:31
FunkyPenguinis there any reason for this oddity?16:31
StskeepsDawnFoster: 30 minutes? oh, thought it was tonight16:32
Stskeepstime to get out the door and get some cash for the delivery guys then, brb16:32
DawnFosterFunkyPenguin: compliance ensures that when someone calls something MeeGo that it really is MeeGo and adheres to certain standards.16:32
DawnFosterStskeeps. we rotate times, so this one is at 14:00 UTC (last one was 19:00 UTC).16:33
Stskeeps:nod:16:34
Stskeepsbrb16:34
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FunkyPenguinDawnFoster, i understand compliance, but what about for people wanting to spread some of the love (using the user experience on another distro)?16:35
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DawnFosterFunkyPenguin: I'm guessing you wouldn't be able to use the MeeGo logo or call it MeeGo (just a guess - I'm not in charge of compliance)16:37
FunkyPenguinok, that's fine - sort of like what was in place with Moblin16:38
DawnFosterFunkyPenguin: keep in mind that it's a guess on my part, since I haven't seen the final compliance docs either :)16:38
FunkyPenguinDawnFoster, yup i understand, thanks16:39
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HolgiDEhi16:53
HolgiDEI have a question: is there a build available containing the released updates for meego netbook 1.016:54
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DawnFosterCommunity Office meeting starting now in #meego-meeting http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings17:00
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luistheey i need some information about garage... i install an application correctly, but when i remove it, it leaves the dependencies installed... how can i prevent that? can i pass 2 tags "package" in garage_data.xml to force install/remove these 2 packages?17:04
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HolgiDEluist: looks like this is not he place for answers, I also stated a question without any reaction17:26
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lcukHolgiDE, images are meant to be reprepared on a weekly basis17:27
lcuki believe17:27
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lcuk i am not sure if its setup, ive only seen people updating17:28
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lcukluist, right now, lbt may be the best person to ask but hes afk17:28
HolgiDElcuk: can you give me a link to the source or is that just via online update?17:28
luistlcuk ok thx17:29
lcukHolgiDE, i dont have any technical bits with me, someone else will17:31
HolgiDElcuk: ok17:31
StskeepsHolgiDE: what was your question?17:31
HolgiDEStskeeps: if there are newer iamges available for netbooks than 1.017:32
Stskeepshttp://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/ http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.80.11.20100716.1/netbook/images/17:33
HolgiDEStskeeps: thanks, that's exactly what I need17:33
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lcukta Stskeeps \o17:34
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StskeepsDawnFoster: i guess its also about how you see your role - i personally wouldn't expect you to answer questions on tech matters in forums, except for matters related to forming community18:03
DawnFosterStskeeps: me either, but when no one else is willing to step in and answer, I have to do the right thing for the community18:03
Stskeepsrather facilitating so others could18:03
DawnFosterwhich means answering tech questions.18:03
Stskeepsand agreed, always a bit of bootstrapping18:03
DawnFosterI've requested help answering forum questions in the past several community office meetings, in several mailing list posts, and in multiple Intel meetings18:04
DawnFosterlots of people complain that there isn't anything they can do to participate18:05
Stskeepsmust be frustrating at times, yeah18:05
DawnFosterbut they don't want to help with the areas that really need help18:05
DawnFoster*nod*18:05
* TSCHAKeee hugs DawnFoster i feel your pain. albeit in a different community. :)18:06
DawnFosterthanks18:06
DawnFosterI'm kind of used to it - this is typical for community managers18:06
TSCHAKeeemhm18:06
TSCHAKeeeyeah..the stress is an odd one..18:07
TSCHAKeeesome drink18:07
TSCHAKeeesome turn to drugs18:07
Stskeepsmaybe something along bugjar, but for threads?18:07
TSCHAKeeesome just play WoW18:07
TSCHAKeee:P18:07
Stskeepsmailed to -dev18:07
TSCHAKeeeme, I just make voodoo dolls of all the trolls and smash them with a hammer18:07
DawnFosterI'll have to try the voodoo dolls - sounds like fun :)18:09
TSCHAKeeeit works18:09
TSCHAKeee:)18:09
TSCHAKeeehehehehehe18:09
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StskeepsDawnFoster: i think a skilled set of forum people will come when QA structure becomes appearant, as people can participate in the testing and know the pitfalls18:10
Stskeepssame patterns goes for people in #meego-arm, we help because we've been through same troubles and know how to deal with it18:11
DawnFosterthe reality is that answering user questions feels a lot like customer support, which isn't very sexy, so it can be hard to get people to help18:13
DawnFosterI've had this challenge in every community I've managed :)18:13
DawnFosterwe need to make answering questions in the forum sexy18:13
DawnFosteror I need more work on those voodoo dolls and mind control18:14
DawnFosterI'll try anything at this point :)18:14
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Stskeepsi guess challenge is also that well, our current stage isn't end-user 'ready' (a lot of quirks), which is even more difficult to create a forum community around18:19
DawnFosterexactly18:21
DawnFosterwe have a lot of novice end users trying out a developer build18:22
DawnFosteralways a recipe for difficult conversations18:22
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TSCHAKeeeheheh18:22
TermanaDawnFoster, I think one of the problems is that they for some reason expect it to be end-user ready, when its still in early kind of stages of development18:23
TSCHAKeeefor my community, imagine loads of people installing what they think is XBMC on steroids.. only to fall down when they fail to understand that the system takes pre-planning to use... :/18:24
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DawnFosterI'm hoping it gets easier once we have OEM builds for end users18:25
Stskeepsit's also a bit confusing that on one side we're met with that nvidia and other things aren't supported cos of licensing, while at the same time we have 'closed' builds like chrome and flashplayer in netbook images..18:26
DawnFosteragreed18:27
Stskeepsis repo.meego.com considered linux foundation territory or intel territory, just out of curiousity?18:28
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w00t_Stskeeps: i'd have thought meego territory :-P18:28
Stskeepswell, meego sorts under LF - no strong feelings towards either of them :P18:29
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Stskeepswhen it comes to some licensing agreements things like that might matter, or help some issues, hence me pondering :)18:32
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TermanaGood night #meego18:36
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DawnFostera few things are on intel servers now, but when we move them to osu those will be linux foundation, too18:36
Stskeeps:nod:18:36
DawnFosteroops, lost my connection18:36
DawnFosterand we're operating as if they were at the linux foundation for the most part anyway18:37
Stskeepsi was personally happy to see non-oss seperated out, declares things better and shows what lengths there actually are needed to make things work18:37
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Stskeepsfrom a technical pov, that is18:37
DawnFosterstskeeps: agreed. It's funny some of the comments I hear from people who want an open source system, but they want it to work on hardware that doesn't have open source drivers :)18:38
Stskeepsi am personally happy if i can get the drivers in the first place.. next step is being able to redistribute the resulting image without legal consequence18:39
lcukDawnFoster, best get the full intel graphics drivers open and available then :p18:39
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DawnFosteryou have no idea how frustrating that is for our team :)18:40
Stskeepsi would be happy to see something like ubuntu's closed hardware driver system in meego, like, for those unfortunate people having GMA500 or nvidia or ATI, etc18:40
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DawnFosteryeah, I've been hammering people internally to provide some better way to do this18:40
DawnFosterneedless to say, I don't make those decisions18:41
Stskeepsi bet you're happy that you don't have to at times either :P18:41
DawnFostergood point18:42
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Stskeepsfrankly, if those emgd drivers are distributed like they were with the IVI licensing on moblin, there really should be no problem unless you're really picky18:42
Stskeepsas in, a repo with the rpms in them for it you grab after a eula acceptance18:43
Stskeepssame method we have on n90018:43
DawnFostermy job is to tell people what the community thinks is broken, and I just had a huge discussion with the architects about the drivers issue18:43
Stskeeps:nod:18:43
Stskeepsbest thing to happen is to make meego so popular nvidia, ti, imgtec and ati starts posting drivers for meego ;)18:43
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DawnFosterthat's the ideal situation18:44
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Stskeepsor a livecd with mic2 installed to generate images on the fly :P18:45
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faborepo.meego.com/tools/ has been updated18:46
Stskeepscool, finally18:47
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Khertanhi !18:51
Stskeepslo Khertan18:51
Stskeepshow's it going?18:51
Khertani'm fine18:51
Khertanfighting with my own repository18:51
lbthey Khertan.... were you interested in the community OBS...18:51
Khertanbut fine ... and you ?18:51
Khertanlbt, of course i'm !18:51
lbtwant to beta test it?18:52
Khertanyep18:52
lbtwe really need some help on the maemo side18:52
Khertan:)18:52
Khertani still didn't understand how it s work18:52
Khertanbut i ll study that18:53
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Stskeepshm, where was the questions page again for forum?18:53
Stskeepsas in, unanswered18:53
Khertansomeone know if pyqt are available in some repository for meego ?18:54
lbtKhertan: any questions... just yell18:56
lbtalso... just to get going: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build18:56
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DawnFosterlbt: minutes from the community office meeting http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-07-20-13.59.html19:03
DawnFoster(the one you missed 2 hours ago)19:03
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lbtDawnFoster: yeah... wedding anniversary today... we went shopping for a kettle ;)19:04
DawnFostercongratulations!19:04
lbt<grin> ta19:05
lbt19 apparently...19:05
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lbtDawnFoster: I'm very keen to participate... sometimes I'll have my head down though. If I'm not around I'd appreciate a ping.19:07
DawnFosterI can try to remember to ping you. This one was at 7am - I was still on my first cup of tea19:08
DawnFosterI may or may not have been coherent19:08
lbtyup... and the 05:00 one... maybe not...19:08
DawnFosteryeah, that one keeps me up past my bedtime19:09
DawnFosterwe'll see what kind of participation we get from asia19:09
DawnFosterif we aren't seeing participation, we'll move it back to 19:0019:09
DawnFosterutc19:09
lbt*nod*19:09
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lbtno mrshaver... OK19:10
Stskeepshm? he was in meeting19:10
lbtyeah... not here now though.... wondered about the security group19:10
lbtit's an issue for maemo obs19:11
lbtI'm good enough to know I can't do it ;)19:11
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DawnFostermrshaver is going to pop back into irc just for you lbt :)19:13
lbthey mrshaver :)19:14
mrshavernot sure I can actually answer any questions though! :)19:14
lbtsorry I missed the meeting19:14
mrshavernp, it was pretty slow with all the vacations19:14
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lbtI was just going to ask about the security 'audit'/support19:14
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lbtwe could get them started on the community OBS as installed if there was interest19:15
mrshaverlbt: since we haven't migrated everything to OSU yet, I shifted the focus of the consulting a bit to concentrate on recommendations for the infrastructure19:16
lbtand of course... trying to get a hold of "Adam" so X-Fade and I can get going on the next step19:16
mrshaverbut, they would like to talk to you about the OBS as well19:16
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lbtgreat - I'd love that ... I'm a bit of a security bod too19:17
mrshaverand I'm sure we can use your recommendations and others to get it right from the beginning19:17
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lbtis the scope the infra and tools or does it extend to the platform?19:17
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mrshaverno, it's just for infra and tools19:18
lbtOK - good to be clear19:18
mrshaverAdam has separated the build infrastructure a bit from these servers, so it would be some slight talking back and forth, but not much19:18
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lbtOK19:19
mrshaveras X-Fade mentioned, getting the SSO figured out is the big one to tackle19:19
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lbtyes... well, I've sorted out a buglet in LDAP for OBS today so my head is in that space now19:20
mrshaverdoesn't OBS now support OpenID as well?19:20
lbtI'd have to check to see how stable it is19:21
lbtit was a GSOC project... not sure if it completed19:21
mrshaverif you could help Niels fill in as much detail as possible about the community OBS on this page, it would help a lot: http://wiki.meego.com/Web_infrastructure19:21
mrshaverjust create a separate page for it and link from that table19:21
lbtyou've seen : http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service ?19:22
lbtespecially : http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Installation19:22
mrshaverI do recall that page, maybe we just link from the meego wiki page to these pages?19:22
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lbtyes... just FYI really19:23
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lbtare the security group advising on SSO ?19:24
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mrshaverlbt: yes, they would be looking at SSO across all the services19:24
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lbtgood19:24
mrshaverI imagine LDAP will win out, but I'm not sure?19:25
lbtSee what they say... I'm not up-to-date19:25
lbtOn a related topic...19:26
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lbtI think we should look at this very carefully : http://wiki.meego.com/Infrastructure/BOSS/Design19:27
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lbtwe actually have a lot of workflow type things in the community that it could help19:28
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mrshaverI'll take a closer look at that, I just glanced when I last heard about it19:28
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mrshaverDoes Anas know about this as well?19:29
lbtyes... we'll be using it in meego.com build19:29
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lbtI think it could be useful to us in the community too19:29
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lbtit's designed for long-term processes19:29
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mrshaverseems well thought out19:30
lbtkinda cool to specify ... => timeout 3w19:30
lbtw=weeks19:30
lbtyeah.. it's my baby :)19:30
mrshaverBTW, did you see my question to Niels about the community OBS being slow with only a few build hosts19:31
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lbtyes... sizing it is a problem19:31
mrshaverdo you have any ideas of the expansion necessary if builds are really slow?19:31
lbtNokia's isn't being stressed19:31
lbtno. I'd ask Anas about the load on theirs.19:31
lbtplus I know we're not doing accel on arm yet19:32
lbtand I don't know how the community will use it19:32
lbtif it's a garage then it's not so big a deal19:32
mrshaverhe didn't provide any specifics, but he did say it would be painful with only a few19:32
lbtbut one thing that I'm hearing is an x86 build of MeeGo... non-sssssssse319:32
lbtwhich may take more grunt19:33
lbtalso s/hearing/hearing and pushing/ :)19:33
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Stskeepslbt: is there any prioritization in obs yet?19:34
lbtyes...19:34
Stskeepsoh?19:34
lbtbut it's hard to asses how it impacts without having a loaded system19:34
lbtstress testing an OBS is an interesting challenge...19:35
lbtwe need Mer19:35
Stskeepsimport our old sources, rebuild ;)19:35
lbtmmm....19:35
* lbt may just go and create Mer as the x86 build...19:36
lbtheh19:36
lbt0.18 lives!19:36
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* Stskeeps misses Mer to some degree but at least the porting community seems to flourish in meego-arm19:37
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lbtI want to see some of your arm guys doing some apps on the open OBS too19:38
lbtwe really need to understand the best way to setup projects19:38
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Stskeepsi know i'd like joggler and n8x0 on open obs, easier collab19:38
lbtI don't think it's as simple as "do what meego.com does"19:38
lbtyep...19:39
lbtyou have an account19:39
Stskeepsi know19:39
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Stskeepsbut easier when others can get one too :)19:41
lbtyeah.. it's the nokia EULA at the moment...19:41
Stskeepsyou at your mic2 setup now btw?19:43
lbthttps://build.obs.maemo.org/project/show?project=Mer19:44
dm8tbrStskeeps: any news on the n8x0 image?19:44
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lbtno... I hate kvm/lvm/grub-pc19:44
Stskeepsk19:45
Stskeepsdm8tbr: no sorry, focusing mostly on n900 this week - the dbus issue is quite bad. i have to wrap up my project period so will push out all my n8x0 stuff during this week19:45
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* Stskeeps wonders if mic2 can build fat32 partitions to19:50
Stskeepso19:50
Stskeepswould be nice to be able to build a full joggler usb stick image19:50
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Zoupis meego is stable on N900?20:37
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* Zoup searche topics, faq, every where, not a very good answer :)20:38
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GAN900No20:53
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GAN900Wireless is buggy20:55
GAN900No cellular20:55
GAN900Very much an alpha release.20:55
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Stskeepsmaking a hw adaptation on top of a moving target is very like riding a bull at a rodeo20:56
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darkforesterHey21:07
darkforester>.<21:07
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darkforesterHey guys21:08
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Stskeepswello21:08
Stskeepspatience..21:08
Stskeeps:P21:08
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trip0"well if nobody is going to reply to me within 1.5mins, I'm outta here!"21:15
trip0"squirrel!!"21:16
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aukebe that way :)21:16
trip0:P21:17
aukeI'm too busy fixing bugs guys ;)21:17
aukenew powertop release coming too for x86 fans21:17
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trip0wah00t21:21
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gseverhello21:56
gseverany google voice users around on N900?21:56
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aukegreetings21:57
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w00t_sandsmark: thanks for the merge (phonon)23:20
sandsmarkoh, np23:20
sandsmarkthanks to you :-)23:20
sandsmarksorry it took so long :-P23:20
w00t_i've seen a lot longer, don't worry about it :-)23:20
sandsmark(I blame mostly Akademy and Solskogen :-P)23:20
sandsmarkhehe23:20
villevanyone know where I can crab a spectacle config file (yaml) for a simple python project?23:23
villevI'm actually package something for opensuse, but I'd rather go the "meego way" first23:24
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Stskeepsvillev: i put an example on the forum i think23:30
Stskeeps(search after spectacle)23:30
villevyeah, I found your example Stskeeps... but can that really build a python project??23:31
villevdoes it try to guess everything by seeing that there is setup.py around?23:32
Stskeepsthat's a good question.. let me check something23:32
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villevStskeeps: best would be some place with tons of spectacle files23:33
Stskeepslike meego rpms :P23:34
villevas it seems there was no such link immediately handy23:34
Stskeepshttp://pastebin.com/sjAMtcmv23:34
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villevthanks Stskeeps, I'll use something like that23:35
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Stskeepshttp://wiki.meego.com/Spectacle23:35
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villevStskeeps: that's an example of page that you open, page down page down, don't find useful stuff, keep on googling ;-)23:40
villevthat is, it should have some examples23:40
villevthat's what my eyes always scan first23:40
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villevor a link to a page where you can browse these source rpms23:41
villevto get examples23:41
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villevor well, it has "two example spectacle YAML files are placed to examples/ directory in source code" but perhaps it should directly include those examples23:42
timelessvillev: does mxr.moego.org suit your needs?23:44
* timeless is irc'ing from an n900 while tryinh yo cross a busy street23:44
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* TSCHAKeee watches timeless get hit by a bus23:47
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TSCHAKeee:P23:47
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timelessthere was a big van available..23:48
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* timeless tries to recross23:48
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timelessdon't worry, i get 4 crossings in about a 10min span23:48
villevtimeless: possibly :-). should I be able to find the yaml files by searching for them? I don't see many useful ones (just from yaml libs actualy)23:48
timelessvillev: there are a couple of roots, i can't remember which is which23:49
timelessan offhand i'm not sure what a yaml is23:49
villevwell, on meego-root I I found a few23:49
* timeless tries climbing stairs while irc'ing23:49
timelesswell, that's something :)23:50
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villevyaml files are used to generate a spec file23:50
villevthrough "spectacle"23:50
* timeless hopes spectacle can be found there too23:51
villevbut it seems mxr is a bit broken. or it gives me "not found" errors when clicking through links23:51
villeve.g. http://mxr.moego.org/meego/sourcegarage-netbook-ui/23:51
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timelesshrm23:52
villevor http://mxr.moego.org/meego/sourcegarage-client-services/rpm/garage-client-services.yaml23:52
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timelessone sec23:52
villevperhaps / missing in sourcegarage...23:52
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timeless_mbpoh23:52
timeless_mbpyeah, there's a / missing23:53
* timeless_mbp frowns23:53
timeless_mbpthere's something confused in that install23:53
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timelessshould be fixed now23:54
timelessat least temporarily23:54
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villevyeah, it's working now. and I find 3, yes, three yaml files23:56
villevone would think there should be more...23:56
timelesstry the repo.meego.com root instead23:56
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villevyes, much better23:57
timelessthe meego root was based on git repos i could find by searching iirc23:57
timelessno one gave me a list23:57
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timelessalso i'm worried about how to structure it since source root names for git repos seem uncreative23:58
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villevactually, meego/ root was still better after all23:59
villevthe many matcher from meego-repo are coming from yaml libs again23:59
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villevmatches23:59
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timelesstry \.yaml$23:59

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