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| TSCHAKeee2 | trumee: again, the core provides a diskless environment | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| TSCHAKeee2 | trumee: the system is designed to be used by small diskless pc's that you mount to a TV. | 00:01 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | when I do the systems research work to MeeGo, this will become a lot cleaner.... | 00:02 |
| lbt | anyone else want a Joggler ? | 00:03 |
| * lcuk has one | 00:03 | |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee2: heh - it is a lot like my duct-taped systems... | 00:03 |
| lbt | diskless booting in lounge/bedroom | 00:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ;) | 00:04 |
| lcuk | lbt i got an allinone | 00:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the system's scope is very large | 00:04 |
| lcuk | 20inch multitouch | 00:04 |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee2: I want a Joggler in the car - with wifi connection back to the house when the car gets home | 00:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: if you look at the screenies on the main linuxmce site, you can see the orbiter running on a nokia N810 | 00:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: in car systems is on my list of stuff to implement | 00:05 |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee2: I think the GPL side of it was all that kept me away in the past | 00:05 |
| Jaffa | lbt: any use? apart from cheapness? | 00:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: I wanted one of Intel's IVI systems | 00:05 |
| lbt | yeah | 00:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i forget the name of the..chipset... | 00:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but I can't find any of it | 00:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | moblin targeted all these "systems" | 00:05 |
| lbt | plus the pain of migrating from a working setup! | 00:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but I could NEVER find any REAL WORKING HARDWARE! | 00:06 |
| lbt | Jaffa: yes - excellent remote control | 00:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i mean | 00:06 |
| lbt | Jaffa: we need GPL hardware home-automation systems now | 00:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | where are the moorestown sample reference designs? | 00:06 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: home automation is one aspect of our system. | 00:06 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | it's all tied together with a static messaging buss. | 00:07 |
| Jaffa | lbt: how much are they now? what's the screen res? | 00:07 |
| * lcuk wraps TSCHAKeee2 in an anti-static bag | 00:07 | |
| lbt | Jaffa: http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/646001/o2-joggler-49-99-now-with-free-app- | 00:07 |
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| lbt | Jaffa: they're *nice* | 00:08 |
| lbt | very stylish/solid... chrome backstand | 00:08 |
| trumee | lbt:what do you mean by excellent remote control? | 00:08 |
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| lbt | well, you need to write the software first... | 00:08 |
| * lcuk has a remote control | 00:09 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | (which we already have *whistles*) ;) | 00:09 |
| Jaffa | lbt: I'll get one tomorrow :) | 00:09 |
| Jaffa | lbt: how did Mer go on them? | 00:10 |
| trumee | lbt: it will be a waste to use this device for a remote control. It will be cool however to mount it in the kitchen as a mythtv frontend for watching tv. | 00:10 |
| lbt | Jaffa: you won't regret it | 00:10 |
| trumee | Jaffa: that is my plan too :) | 00:10 |
| Jaffa | lbt: or any "more open Linux" | 00:10 |
| lcuk | lbt, i have problems everytime i disconnect | 00:10 |
| lbt | trumee: and in the kitchen it will run shopper | 00:10 |
| lcuk | it doesnt remember net settings or time | 00:10 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNaWUM4bX3I <-- LinuxMCE Telephone System Demonstration using a WebDT 366 as an orbiter pad. | 00:10 |
| lbt | lcuk you don't run an ntp server in house though do you | 00:11 |
| lcuk | nope, and my net settings require config | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: ended up getting the joggler or not, i forget? | 00:12 |
| lcuk | yes | 00:12 |
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| Stskeeps | k | 00:12 |
| Jaffa | does it have a battery? | 00:13 |
| trumee | lcuk: what do u mean it doesnt remember net settings? | 00:13 |
| lbt | no | 00:13 |
| lcuk | the kids compain it loses settings every other day | 00:14 |
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| lbt | and it uses the intel proprietaty GL drivers - so that will probably stop working at some point | 00:14 |
| lcuk | or they do when they remember its there | 00:14 |
| lcuk | i need to find a tiny usb stick | 00:14 |
| lcuk | so it wont get knocked out | 00:14 |
| lbt | lcuk: what OS is it running? | 00:14 |
| lcuk | :) then put mer on it | 00:14 |
| lcuk | still original | 00:14 |
| trumee | lcuk: you mean O2's stock install, dont you? | 00:15 |
| lcuk | yes | 00:15 |
| lbt | when you burn an image you can hardcode all the settings | 00:15 |
| trumee | lcuk: ah! first thing i will do is wipe out O2 from it :) | 00:15 |
| lbt | and a script to get time from ntp | 00:15 |
| lcuk | trumee, :) the first thing i do when i buy something is use it as intended | 00:15 |
| lcuk | if pre installed mer usb sticks (with nice stickers on) were available to plug and play, it changes the game somewhat | 00:16 |
| lbt | lcuk: coming soon | 00:16 |
| lcuk | :) having it on usb also allows settings to be stored | 00:16 |
| lbt | actually this is what I think Mer2 will be | 00:16 |
| lbt | or Mer3 now | 00:16 |
| * lcuk cannot fault the hardware | 00:17 | |
| trumee | lbt: can i install mythtv in mer? | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | no promises on mer2/3 | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | meego, more likely | 00:17 |
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| lcuk | lbt let me know how much for a stick btw | 00:17 |
| lcuk | how much of a ninja would a usb image need to be to open up a VMware image when inserted on windows | 00:18 |
| lcuk | replace vmware with whatever imager thingy is in vogue | 00:19 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: not that hard | 00:19 |
| lcuk | cool | 00:19 |
| lcuk | same could happen for meego i bet :) | 00:20 |
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| Jaffa | lbt: ordered :) | 00:39 |
| lbt | heh | 00:39 |
| lbt | do you use MythTV too? | 00:39 |
| Jaffa | XBMC at the moment. | 00:39 |
| Jaffa | Never got on with MythTV | 00:40 |
| * Jaffa re-Capricas now Mrs. Jaffa is off the phone | 00:40 | |
| Jaffa | This 49 quid could save having to buy an iPad ;-) | 00:40 |
| lbt | I think you'll like it | 00:40 |
| lbt | s/think/know/ | 00:40 |
| infobot | lbt meant: I know you'll like it | 00:40 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh now, THAT'S cute | 00:40 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 00:41 |
| lbt | thanks infobot | 00:41 |
| infobot | my pleasure, lbt | 00:41 |
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| trumee | Jaffa: i never tried xbmc, but mythtv serves all my needs. | 00:44 |
| trumee | i hope we will have mythtv support on meego :) | 00:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | trumee: did you see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNaWUM4bX3I | 00:45 |
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| trumee | TSCHAKeee2: yup i did. is that you in the video? | 00:46 |
| trumee | TSCHAKeee2: good stuff. | 00:47 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yes | 00:47 |
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| trumee | TSCHAKeee2: i have a perfectly running freepbx/asterisk with phones spread over two continents. i guess i will have to do a trial run on a spare harddisk of linuxmce before i wipe out my live system :) | 00:48 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | trumee: you will have trouble | 00:50 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | trumee: simply because you will have the urge to tweak with stuff | 00:50 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | we have very stringent hardware requirements for things that "just work" | 00:50 |
| mrec | that youtube video is funny | 00:50 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but i can tell you | 00:50 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | that every single part of the system works as advertised. | 00:51 |
| mrec | "how's the audio quality" .. "the quality is pretty good" (as the one who was called learned what he had to say .. and for real it sounds like underwatersound) | 00:51 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | if you'd like | 00:52 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i can call you | 00:52 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :) | 00:52 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i mean if you REALLY want to be a smartass about it | 00:52 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i can call you out on it :) | 00:52 |
| mrec | skype works with 90% of all calls the other 10% tell me that the call sounds like a robot | 00:52 |
| mrec | I'm skeptic about VoIP in the field because of my experience... | 00:53 |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee2: which version of asterisk ? | 00:53 |
| mrec | speed dial ... I use my mobile phone or simply something small like skype and not such a big device | 00:54 |
| mrec | even though it's interesting from the technical point of course | 00:55 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | mrec: currently the same as shipped with ubuntu 8.10 .. 1.4.21 with security patches folded in | 00:56 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and you're missing the point | 00:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but that's okay | 00:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | Orbiter runs on a wide variety of devices | 00:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the tablet is just a distributed display | 00:57 |
| mrec | but then the gui is too big isn't it? | 00:57 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | sigh | 00:57 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 goes to bang his head against the wall | 00:57 | |
| mrec | well I'm not the market :) but I'm curious to see this out there | 00:58 |
| postmanPechkin | me too | 00:58 |
| trumee | anybody can tell me if it is possible to install mythtv on mer (joggler)? can i compile mythtv on my desktop and install the binaries on joggler? | 00:58 |
| mrec | I want my tv devices (ATSC/ISDB-T/DVB-T/DVB-C/analogTV/FM Radio/...) work with those devices | 00:58 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | Orbiter is about to get a massive rewrite | 00:59 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | to use either GTK/Clutter or Qt, i am still doing tests to see which will work better | 00:59 |
| mrec | Gtk is terrible | 00:59 |
| mrec | loads of dependencies | 00:59 |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee2: use Qt - no question | 01:00 |
| trumee | TSCHAKeee2: i like Qt :) | 01:00 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i love Clutter's canvas handling | 01:00 |
| mrec | I wrote a gtk app it works with ubuntu systems but fails on redhat systems | 01:00 |
| mrec | and this app is really easy | 01:00 |
| lbt | doesn't matter - Meego will have huge Qt support, the docs are superior, the SW arch is great | 01:00 |
| mrec | and you can't just tell every customer to reinstall this and that package | 01:00 |
| trumee | so who is the expert on mer? | 01:00 |
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| mrec | so Gtk remains to be a failure when it comes to ready for the enduser.. | 01:01 |
| lbt | trumee: focus is on Meego, not mer now | 01:01 |
| lbt | until we take stock and decide on Mer's future | 01:01 |
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| trumee | lbt: not a problem. but can i compile mythtv binaries on my x86 box for joggler (mer image)? | 01:02 |
| lbt | yes | 01:02 |
| trumee | lbt: mythtv depends on qt and ffmpeg. | 01:02 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | we'll definitely be experimenting with gstreamer transcoding | 01:02 |
| lbt | so TSCHAKeee2... I can't find an easy answer about the asterisk version | 01:03 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: 1.4.21 with some additional patches for security fixes | 01:03 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: the same as ubuntu 8.10 | 01:03 |
| trumee | lbt: is there any doc which shows how i can get started? i downloaded the mer-juggler-alpha_015.tar.gz image, do i chroot into it and start compiling? | 01:03 |
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| lbt | moving to 1.6? I have a CLI fix that's on the dahdi driver in 1.6 | 01:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: in our next cycle, yeah. | 01:04 |
| lbt | trumee: the fact that you're asking suggests that you'd be better off learning more about other things :) | 01:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: i will be using whatever meego has upstream | 01:04 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: I really want to push as much as I can OFF our plates and upstream | 01:05 |
| lbt | meego won't have asterisk | 01:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ok so we'll just grab the latest stable | 01:05 |
| lbt | although... it's a good one for the RWG that we're looking at | 01:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and package that | 01:05 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | no big deal | 01:05 |
| milliams | Doesn;t mean that it won't be provided in some sort ofcomminuty repo. | 01:05 |
| lbt | Jaffa: MCE as the RWG example? "Here Intel. maintain this." | 01:06 |
| lbt | trumee: I suggest you learn rpm packaging and OBS building | 01:06 |
| lbt | milliams: http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Repository_working_group | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | lbt: heh, mean ;-) | 01:07 |
| lbt | that's what they said... | 01:07 |
| lbt | here's asterisk <clunk> | 01:07 |
| lbt | here's MythTV <slam> | 01:07 |
| lbt | here's lirc <tink> | 01:07 |
| trumee | lbt: i dont want to package it. i will simply compile and install in /usr/local and copy the files over to joggler | 01:07 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 thwaps trumee on the noggin | 01:08 | |
| lbt | good luck then... :) | 01:08 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 01:08 |
| trumee | lbt: ok, am i missing something? happy to learn rpm packaging if it required. | 01:09 |
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| trumee | lbt: cant i simply compile from source and install it directly? | 01:10 |
| lbt | what's the phrase... oh yeah .... "let me know how that works out for you" | 01:10 |
| lbt | trumee: Can you do that for a normal desktop distro? | 01:11 |
| trumee | lbt: yes, why not? | 01:11 |
| trumee | lbt: i install mythtv from source for my own box. | 01:12 |
| lbt | OK | 01:12 |
| lbt | what have you compiled for the Joggler? | 01:12 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | trumee: embedded environments have quite a few more land mines | 01:12 |
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| trumee | lbt: nothing, i have no clue about Mer or joggler. that is the reason i am asking these questions. | 01:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | trumee: filesystem space is a challenge. | 01:13 |
| lbt | and you thought MythTV would be a gentle intro? | 01:13 |
| lbt | and you picked an incomplete distro | 01:13 |
| trumee | TSCHAKeee2: yes, but joggler has usb port. i will use a fat usb stick with it. | 01:13 |
| lbt | and the least supported hardware | 01:13 |
| lbt | and thought "hmm. how hard can it be?" | 01:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and yes | 01:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the GMA500 is an absolute land mine | 01:14 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | you will lose your sanity | 01:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | at least once | 01:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :) | 01:14 |
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| lbt | now, if you want to learn productive things | 01:14 |
| lbt | and get there quicker in the end | 01:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i tried to create a media director image for the FitPC2 and damn near killed myself | 01:15 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | (and I _have_ built linux operating environments for embedded use from scratch) | 01:15 |
| trumee | lbt: yes? | 01:16 |
| lbt | start learning about Meego | 01:16 |
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| lbt | learning the foundations first will see you achieve a more sustainable result quicker | 01:16 |
| lbt | and you'll contribute back to the community | 01:16 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yup, you are in here at an opportune time | 01:16 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | to see a distribution | 01:17 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | built from the bottom up | 01:17 |
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| lbt | instead of wasting time on a dead version of Mer | 01:17 |
| lbt | (says the Mer build guy) | 01:17 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ahhhh okay | 01:17 |
| trumee | lbt: fair enough. my intentions are to ultimately use mythfrontend on small devices like N900 and joggler. | 01:18 |
| lbt | me too | 01:18 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | ultimately, LinuxMCE will completely dispense with Mythfrontend | 01:19 |
| lbt | although I may use them as remote controls to a full-screen f/e | 01:19 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | replaced with an orbiter UI | 01:19 |
| lbt | TSCHAKeee2: how does that control Myth ? | 01:19 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | basically? i will be making a null skin, initially | 01:19 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | all of the data that the frontend would normally display, would be sent to Orbiter instead. | 01:20 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i'll also investigate grafting on a network control port to the main mythtv binary, instead of mythfrontend | 01:20 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | we currently control mythfontend using the rarely used network control port | 01:20 |
| lbt | I see the f/e needs to advertise what 'controls' are available at any time | 01:20 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the NCP does this | 01:21 |
| lbt | and it would be nice for different elements on the screen to provide 'control interfaces' | 01:21 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but keep in mind | 01:21 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | we only use mythgfrontend for the TV parts | 01:21 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | we do not use any other mythtv plugins or anything else | 01:21 |
| lbt | TV & scheduling | 01:22 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i already did work to push the scheduling to orbiter | 01:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but it will be rewritten for the orbiter rewrite | 01:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | so really, mythTV is only used for the bare actual TV part in the end | 01:23 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the reason is, | 01:24 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | that with LinuxMCE the orbiter is a distributed and synchronized UI | 01:24 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | if I use the TV in a room | 01:24 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | then ALL of the orbiters in that room SWITCH to the TV remote | 01:24 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | or when a movie is selected, or audio, or when a phone call comes in etc | 01:25 |
| lbt | so why does scheduling go to the orbiter? it's not UI | 01:25 |
| lbt | scheduling is b/e | 01:25 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh, the orbiter sends commands to the mythtv plugin | 01:25 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | on the core | 01:25 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | which alters the backend | 01:26 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | part of what i will be doing next dev cycle | 01:27 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | is abstracting out all the orbiter's functions to a cleaner and simpler RPC | 01:27 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | so that the whole DCE stack isn't needed to make a new orbiter for a different device | 01:28 |
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| arjan | ARGH | 01:28 |
| * arjan hates the bugzilla | 01:28 | |
| lbt | and we've not even started yet arjan :) | 01:28 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: the ultimate goal with LinuxMCE is to provide control of every single thing inside a house, from any terminal like display device, inside or outside the house | 01:28 |
| lbt | well, I think MeeGo and LinuxMCE have a future TSCHAKeee2 | 01:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: we do | 01:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: I am trying to convince the rest of my team that | 01:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | lbt: they want to stick with ubuntu | 01:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | god only knows why | 01:29 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 drops head | 01:29 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | everything in this stack is aligned for precisely what our use cases need | 01:29 |
| lbt | well, meego is pretty immature at the moment | 01:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I know it is | 01:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | BUT | 01:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | dude | 01:29 |
| lbt | but I think strategically it is correct | 01:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I was one of the first 100 people or so to build a working linux system | 01:29 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | I see this as being on the ground floor | 01:30 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i know PRECISELY what the state of the stack is now | 01:30 |
| lbt | well, the TSG assure us that Meego has all the packages we'd ever need... isn't that right arjan? | 01:31 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and I know where the goals are going | 01:31 |
| arjan | lbt: I'm not in the TSG | 01:32 |
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| arjan | if the goals of meego align with your goals, it might be a good match | 01:33 |
| lbt | I know but you can tell them they can support Asterisk and MythTV | 01:33 |
| arjan | but keep in mind that if the goals don't align, that even if todays code might work, there's no guarantee that that stays the case | 01:33 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | our goal is very simple | 01:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the more stuff we can pass off upstream | 01:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | the better | 01:34 |
| arjan | meego is explicitly not being an OS that works for all possible usecases, but is selective for a small set of cases and optimizes strongly for those | 01:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | we have over a million lines of our OWN CODE | 01:34 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | to deal with | 01:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | yes, the embedded appliance market | 01:34 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | which is exactly what we are | 01:34 |
| lbt | OK, bed now... TSCHAKeee2 - catch you around here more I hope..... 'night all | 01:36 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i will be | 01:36 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | later lbt :) | 01:36 |
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| alden | TSCHAKeee2: im wondering if the Rolling Back source base article on the linuxmce.org website an april fools joke? | 01:45 |
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| alden | s/an/is an/ | 01:46 |
| infobot | alden meant: TSCHAKeee2: im wondering if the Rolling Back source base article on the linuxmce.org website is an april fools joke? | 01:46 |
| alden | infobot: thanks :) | 01:47 |
| infobot | alden: de rien | 01:47 |
| trumee | is there a big difference in the code between a mainstream distro and an embedded distro like meego (leaving out drivers for hardware)? | 01:53 |
| trumee | do standard gnu utils require patches too? | 01:55 |
| alden | im getting a "this kernel requires the following features not present in the CPU: pae | 02:00 |
| alden | when booting the netbook image in VirtualBox | 02:00 |
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| postmanPechkin | so even in VB i can't run OS on processor without pae | 02:03 |
| postmanPechkin | ? | 02:03 |
| alden | ah found an enable pae option in VB.. sorted | 02:03 |
| postmanPechkin | even if it is moblin? | 02:03 |
| postmanPechkin | alden: is it working? | 02:04 |
| postmanPechkin | now? | 02:04 |
| alden | no ive gotten past that point but stuck again | 02:05 |
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| alden | kernel_thread_helper+0x6/0x10 is the last thing it prints before freezing | 02:06 |
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| postmanPechkin | (-: | 02:14 |
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| alden | others have gotten to a root shell | 02:19 |
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| _Sky_ | hi, are there any instructions yet how to run meebo with qemu ? | 02:23 |
| _Sky_ | *meego | 02:23 |
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| melik | _Sky_: | 03:05 |
| melik | does meego have a GUI yet | 03:05 |
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| _Sky_ | i think not, there is a X-server but i don't if it works, actually i'm trying to run meego on my x86 with qemu with no success so far | 03:18 |
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| mrec | _Sky_: http://www.sundtek.de/meego/index.txt | 03:22 |
| _Sky_ | ok looks good, i will try that | 03:23 |
| _Sky_ | thx | 03:23 |
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| mrec | even though there's no Gui so it's absolutly not interesting | 03:25 |
| _Sky_ | we are geeks, we need no gui :D | 03:27 |
| mrec | well but I don't need a stupid redhat either | 03:27 |
| _Sky_ | yeah, i'm also not very excited about that | 03:28 |
| mrec | debian/ubuntu are very likely the only enduserfriendly systems (my opinion) | 03:28 |
| * _Sky_ uses archlinux | 03:28 | |
| milliams | redhat has nothing to do with MeeGo | 03:29 |
| tripzero | at least not directly ;) | 03:29 |
| _Sky_ | it uses rpm and yum | 03:29 |
| mrec | there's yum on it .. | 03:30 |
| mrec | and yum is shit | 03:30 |
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| mrec | this very much reminds me about the linux netbook hype | 03:33 |
| mrec | acer put it onto their acer one netbooks, there were likely no new applications coming up for it | 03:33 |
| mrec | and finally they even removed the website about it | 03:33 |
| _Sky_ | i like pacman from archlinux very much, its simple and easy and u got a very nice overview when searching something and a lot of short parameters for searching packages/file owners and so on | 03:33 |
| mrec | pretty much everything is better than yum | 03:33 |
| mrec | yum is like: sleep 10; do something for 1 second; sleep 20; if [user is not pissed yet] sleep 30; | 03:34 |
| _Sky_ | :D | 03:34 |
| mrec | and of course uninterruptible or hard to interrupt | 03:35 |
| _Sky_ | i heared it should do better in new versions but didn't test it yet | 03:35 |
| mrec | too less people are maintaining it | 03:36 |
| mrec | this very likely won't change with the next few years | 03:36 |
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| _Sky_ | nice, now i got a shell, whats the root pw :D ? | 03:41 |
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| koupsaa | _Sky_ , on meego ? | 03:43 |
| _Sky_ | ok its meego, i should have known that | 03:43 |
| _Sky_ | yes, thanks :) i just tried it out | 03:43 |
| _Sky_ | lol, yum --help takes about 5 sec :D | 03:44 |
| mrec | maybe the [user is not pissed yet] detector doesn't work properly in the VM | 03:45 |
| mrec | it should take longer :) | 03:45 |
| _Sky_ | ;) | 03:46 |
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| _Sky_ | after starting "X" i get a buggy screen and it crashes ;) | 03:50 |
| mrec | vm issues maybe | 03:50 |
| mrec | just replace the entire system with ubuntu and put the gui onto it when it comes out | 03:50 |
| _Sky_ | no, the crash is more a freezing , i guess its the x-server | 03:51 |
| mrec | ya | 03:51 |
| mrec | it seems they hired a student for one day to cobble together the redhat system in a day | 03:52 |
| mrec | afterwards putting it big onto the news | 03:52 |
| mrec | for a first release a little bit more than a basic console system should be there | 03:53 |
| _Sky_ | wrote a small script which starts the X-server and kills it after 10sec, it works, now i can make further tests with the x configuration | 03:53 |
| _Sky_ | :D maybe, i hope its not true ^^ | 03:53 |
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| _Sky_ | just ran an yum upgrad, 130mb , seems that they are very active or maybe the first release has very outdated packages | 03:58 |
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| _Sky_ | i see, yum is a lot better than the last time i used it :) the search is much better now and its a bit faster | 03:59 |
| mrec | where did you pick the packages? | 04:04 |
| mrec | from redhat or from somehwere else? | 04:04 |
| mrec | maybe they just put some old redhat packages onto it | 04:04 |
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| _Sky_ | i think it was a meego source, but now the usb image is full xD | 04:08 |
| _Sky_ | i could resize it but i guess i will install it this time ;) | 04:08 |
| mrec | when you are booting up the image... it's using the RAM | 04:08 |
| _Sky_ | are you shure ? | 04:09 |
| _Sky_ | *sure | 04:09 |
| mrec | yes because I modified the ubuntu initrd to work with it | 04:09 |
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| _Sky_ | hmm the install option of the bootloader doesn't work | 04:14 |
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| _Sky_ | maybe there is an install script somewhere | 04:17 |
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| _Sky_ | looks like there are some old scripts here, like moblin-live in init.d | 04:26 |
| johnx | did that issue get sorted out regarding the chrootable tar.gz for the N900? (It was corrupted yesterday) | 04:27 |
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| johnx | yup. seems to be fixed | 04:31 |
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| johnx | errr. scratch that. Has anyone successfully untarred: meego-codedrop-arm-n900-201003311626.tar.gz ? | 04:33 |
| johnx | and if you have, could you tell me your the md5sum of your copy? | 04:34 |
| mrec | it works here | 04:34 |
| johnx | my non-working copy is: 7ee95f455332369a64548eacdb837820 | 04:34 |
| mrec | same here | 04:34 |
| johnx | alright. I'll dig deeper on this side... | 04:35 |
| lcuk | johnx, b-man17 was having similar issues earlire | 04:35 |
| johnx | lcuk, thanks | 04:35 |
| johnx | I bet I know what it is then | 04:35 |
| lcuk | tho he appeared to cure it with gnutar | 04:35 |
| johnx | yup | 04:35 |
| lcuk | was doing it on his device | 04:35 |
| johnx | I was too. and I double checked with a mac os x machine | 04:35 |
| johnx | which would have BSD tar :) | 04:36 |
| johnx | huh...actually the mac does have GNU tar | 04:36 |
| lcuk | odd to see compression glitches - things have been quite stable for many years now | 04:36 |
| * johnx is confused, but will unpack on a linux desktop to be sure | 04:36 | |
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| lcuk | worth a try | 04:37 |
| johnx | It's probably something about the way tar represents special files | 04:37 |
| lcuk | prolly | 04:37 |
| lcuk | how are you then john | 04:37 |
| johnx | pretty good | 04:37 |
| johnx | work keeps me pretty busy | 04:37 |
| lcuk | doing anything over easter | 04:37 |
| * lcuk also knows busy | 04:37 | |
| johnx | yup. gonna hang out with the in-laws | 04:37 |
| johnx | actually quite looking forward to it :) | 04:38 |
| lcuk | you flying east then? or are they coming over to stay with you? | 04:38 |
| johnx | my in-laws are ~40 minutes north by car | 04:38 |
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| johnx | We'll probably just drop by for dinner | 04:38 |
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| * lcuk apologises then | 04:40 | |
| lcuk | thats an easy enough trip :D | 04:41 |
| lcuk | i best go and tend to tracy, shes a bit worse for wear | 04:41 |
| johnx | bummer. tell her the internet gives her best wishes | 04:42 |
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| ferringb | http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_cfa80e33ee5fa6f854120ddfb9b468b3.xml | 04:47 |
| ferringb | pardon, misspaste (laptop in the lap, damnable buttons at the base of the keyboard ;) | 04:47 |
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| _Sky_ | johnx the tar file extracts fine for me except of some mknod errors, GNU tar 1.23, gzip 1.4, extracted with: "tar xvzf file" | 04:58 |
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| _Sky_ | oh he left 3min ago :( | 04:59 |
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| JPerlow | greetings... I'm trying to convert the USB image to an ISO file for booting in virtualbox but I'm not having much success. | 05:08 |
| JPerlow | crickets... | 05:10 |
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| ferringb | JPerlow: .vdi file by chance, or | 05:12 |
| ferringb | JPerlow: backlog has the following- 06:21 < slaine> VBoxManage convertdd <path/to/.usbimg> <path/to/.vdi> | 05:13 |
| JPerlow | well, I have the USB image file. But I cant virtually mount it in windows, or just rename it to .iso | 05:13 |
| JPerlow | I see you can dd it to a usb key | 05:13 |
| ferringb | yes, cd also. | 05:13 |
| JPerlow | which would be fine, except for the fact all my linuxes are virtual | 05:13 |
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| JPerlow | you can dd it to an iso? | 05:14 |
| ferringb | should be able to from what I know, yes. haven't tried it however, but should work assuming I'm not blatantly incompetent ;) | 05:14 |
| JPerlow | I thought dd just did a bit by bit dump | 05:14 |
| JPerlow | to a block device | 05:14 |
| JPerlow | doesnt convert filesystems | 05:15 |
| JPerlow | ISO 9660 isnt what the USB image uses natively, is it? | 05:15 |
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| ferringb | JPerlow: it does, pardon, didn't read the question closely. two things you can do; 1) burn actual cd, probably pointless for you, 2) check into the convertdd from VBoxManage, worst case running it w/in one of the VM instances. | 05:17 |
| JPerlow | convertdd? | 05:17 |
| JPerlow | interesting. | 05:17 |
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| ferringb | VBoxManage aparently. whatever that is (I neither use virtualbox, nor virtualbox on windows ;) | 05:17 |
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| JPerlow | I'd burn an actual CD, but when I try all my burning programs it doesnt recognize the image file as one containing a valid filesystem. | 05:20 |
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| JPerlow | i may be in luck | 05:23 |
| JPerlow | VBoxmanage appears to be doing SOMETHING | 05:23 |
| JPerlow | and we have GRUB | 05:24 |
| JPerlow | :) | 05:24 |
| JPerlow | that was annoying, someone needs to put that up on the download site in native vdi | 05:25 |
| JPerlow | or ISO | 05:25 |
| JPerlow | shit black screen at boot | 05:26 |
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| _Sky_ | i got it to work in qemu but with kernel errors, i got it working after i replaced the syslinux: http://www.sundtek.de/meego/index.txt | 05:28 |
| JPerlow | ugh | 05:28 |
| _Sky_ | with the new syslinux the kernel errors went away | 05:28 |
| JPerlow | this feels like slackware from 15 years ago | 05:28 |
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| _Sky_ | running it with qemu is easy then, just do a: qemu imagefile | 05:30 |
| JPerlow | wait I got a little bit further | 05:30 |
| JPerlow | now it gives me a PAE not present error | 05:30 |
| JPerlow | lol | 05:30 |
| JPerlow | turn it back on, back to black screen | 05:31 |
| JPerlow | I wonder if it has actually booted but cant represent the graphics chip | 05:31 |
| _Sky_ | ok, ill try to convert my modified image into a vbox image | 05:32 |
| JPerlow | the first moblin beta worked fine | 05:32 |
| JPerlow | the resolution was whacked, but it booted into the environment | 05:32 |
| JPerlow | yeah FYI, I'm a journalist, I want to do a video tour of it with a screen cast | 05:33 |
| JPerlow | like this one:L | 05:33 |
| JPerlow | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=12443 | 05:33 |
| _Sky_ | i guess i have to use VBoxManage convertfromraw | 05:34 |
| JPerlow | I did that | 05:35 |
| JPerlow | and it gets to grub | 05:35 |
| JPerlow | when I import it | 05:35 |
| JPerlow | but it wont go farther | 05:35 |
| _Sky_ | yeah, but i have a modified syslinux, maybe it works here, in qemu it does | 05:35 |
| JPerlow | ah | 05:35 |
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| JPerlow | what was up with qemu and kvm and syslinux | 05:36 |
| _Sky_ | it seems to woirk | 05:37 |
| _Sky_ | *work | 05:37 |
| _Sky_ | i'm at the login screen now | 05:37 |
| JPerlow | cool | 05:37 |
| _Sky_ | much much faster than qemu :D | 05:37 |
| JPerlow | yeah, virtualbox is sick | 05:37 |
| _Sky_ | wow :) | 05:37 |
| JPerlow | its my vm package of choice now on win, mac and linux | 05:38 |
| JPerlow | you can see from my ubuntu demo how fast it is | 05:38 |
| _Sky_ | i send the link here a few min ago, just do as described there and it should work | 05:38 |
| JPerlow | boots ubuntu in 5 seconds | 05:38 |
| _Sky_ | my meego ist faster ;) | 05:39 |
| JPerlow | crap that requires a 9.10 ubuntu | 05:39 |
| JPerlow | I wonder if it works with 10.04 syslinux | 05:40 |
| _Sky_ | no, just a linux | 05:40 |
| _Sky_ | you only need to have wget installed, but you can also download the file with a browser | 05:40 |
| JPerlow | ok I'll try it in my ubuntu vm | 05:40 |
| _Sky_ | i use archlinux, makes no difference | 05:40 |
| JPerlow | yeah I had like 4 linux flavors on this box running at one point | 05:41 |
| _Sky_ | every linux should do where the kernel knows the filesystem of the usb image | 05:41 |
| JPerlow | they should just plain update teh syslinux in the master build | 05:41 |
| JPerlow | a ton of devs are gonna virtualize it | 05:41 |
| _Sky_ | I'm still shocked how fast virtualbox is compared to qemu, it was about 10times faster :D | 05:43 |
| JPerlow | its an incredible peice of code | 05:44 |
| JPerlow | were you using qemu with kvm or just qemu | 05:44 |
| JPerlow | cause kvm is pretty fast | 05:44 |
| JPerlow | how much ram did you assign your vm, 1024mb? | 05:45 |
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| _Sky_ | no, that should be the problem, i just installed qemu and it added an udev rule to add a device but i didn't restart so i got an error about kvm device not found | 05:45 |
| JPerlow | kvm hypervisor is very fast with linux VMs | 05:46 |
| JPerlow | fairly decent with windows | 05:46 |
| JPerlow | but virtualbox is really polished | 05:46 |
| _Sky_ | if you want to make updates and test with the image you should give it at least 512mb | 05:46 |
| JPerlow | yeah i figured 1024 to emulate typical netbook | 05:47 |
| JPerlow | 1 virtual cpu | 05:47 |
| _Sky_ | ok, half of the ram is used for the tmp filesystem and the other half is used for the root filesystem | 05:47 |
| JPerlow | of course on virtualbox it uses the clock speed of your native machine | 05:47 |
| JPerlow | so you cant pretend its an atom | 05:47 |
| _Sky_ | updating takes about 130mb , maybe more | 05:47 |
| JPerlow | I have an 8 core opteron as a workstation | 05:48 |
| _Sky_ | :) nice | 05:48 |
| JPerlow | its loud | 05:48 |
| JPerlow | does the job | 05:48 |
| JPerlow | drowns out my wife watching stupid tv shows upstairs | 05:48 |
| _Sky_ | mine is just a simple core 2 duo, but its ok :) fast enough for my purposes | 05:48 |
| JPerlow | yeah my laptop is just a simple duo | 05:49 |
| JPerlow | works fine | 05:49 |
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| _Sky_ | hmm the X-server is still not working, it looks very strange and freezes, i wrote a script which starts X and kills it again after 5sec, so that i can escape from it ;) | 05:51 |
| _Sky_ | maybe its because there is now xorg.conf, but modern xorg servers don't need it anymore as far as i know, but it looks like its detecting the wrong video card, vboxvideo, which is not available because i didn't install any vbox additions | 05:53 |
| _Sky_ | i try adding a simple video section with vesa | 05:54 |
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| _Sky_ | no sucess, the error about the graphics module went away but xorg still is unusable | 05:58 |
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| _Sky_ | i try updating all packages including xorg now | 06:01 |
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| vaughan__ | ARM9 400MHZ cpu is enough for meego? | 06:05 |
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| colonelqubit | "You are not authorized to access bug #269," ditto for #270. Are these security bugs? Or is bugzilla just confused? | 07:50 |
| RST38h | you are just not worthy | 07:52 |
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| colonelqubit | RST38h: :-) | 07:56 |
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| colonelqubit | Any other "forbidden" bugs out there? | 07:59 |
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| colonelqubit | Wow. Between bugs 1-300 I count 121 that I'm not authorized to view | 08:08 |
| colonelqubit | That's nearly half... | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | colonelqubit: i'd raise an issue about that | 08:10 |
| Stskeeps | if it's bugzilla.meego.com | 08:10 |
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| Stskeeps | 121 is a litttle too many to be counted as security bugs | 08:13 |
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| colonelqubit | Stskeeps: yeah, that's bugzilla.meego.com | 08:16 |
| Stskeeps | another thought could be unpublished roadmap requirements being set up for release | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | colonelqubit: either way, please raise the issue on meego-dev@. best way to get transparency is by pointing out those areas that are not. | 08:20 |
| colonelqubit | Stskeeps, yep, I will | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | thanks | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | it might just be test bugs that were deleted, though | 08:22 |
| colonelqubit | not all of them | 08:23 |
| * Stskeeps nods | 08:23 | |
| colonelqubit | Bug 176 is blocked by 269, and I'm not authorized to see the latter one. (http://bugzilla.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=176) | 08:24 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, you're right | 08:25 |
| Stskeeps | time for a well meaning mail then :) | 08:25 |
| * Stskeeps goes get breakfast | 08:25 | |
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| ameng | rpm is shit | 08:42 |
| Stskeeps | did you try it recently? | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | also, 7:40am, a bit too early for this discussion | 08:44 |
| Surfa | depends on where you're living | 08:45 |
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| * GAN900 chuckles at all of the restricted bugs. | 08:48 | |
| GAN900 | Open indeed. | 08:48 |
| GAN900 | Betterer and betterer | 08:48 |
| Stskeeps | let's see what their answer is though | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | maybe there's a faulty default policy | 08:53 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm probably going to hell for grabbing meego rpms for most other stuff, except for the xserver 1.6 from moblin 2.1 :P | 10:32 |
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| dneary | hi | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | lo dneary | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | had a good birthday? | 10:46 |
| lbt | morning dneary | 10:46 |
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| dneary | Salut Stskeeps, lbt | 10:47 |
| dneary | Very nice, thanks | 10:47 |
| dneary | Although I'll be celebrating it this weekend | 10:48 |
| * Stskeeps takes a look at TSG meeting minutes | 10:49 | |
| Terje | Stskeeps, got an URL? | 10:52 |
| Terje | :s/an/a/ | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-03-31-19.58.html | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | i'm looking forward to the underlying wg's starting meetings as well, so people can ask more targetted questions there.. | 10:53 |
| Terje | Stskeeps, thanks. | 10:54 |
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| lbt | auke: "the best platform to develop MeeGo on will be MeeGo itself" ... please don't make MeeGo any "better" than any other platform. | 11:09 |
| anttu | i wanted to have a peek on meego and dd'd the usbimg to a usb stick, but i get "missing operating system" | 11:09 |
| lbt | Self-hosting is admirable and important. "Required" for *anything* would be a huge mistake. | 11:10 |
| anttu | is there instructions how to make the usb stick right | 11:10 |
| anttu | (atom version) | 11:10 |
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| * thiago prefers cross-compiling from the comfort of his preferred Linux distribution | 11:12 | |
| zhuyanhai | anttu: did you dd to something like /dev/sdb or /dev/sdb{number}? | 11:14 |
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| anttu | whoops, i used sdb1 | 11:15 |
| lbt | thiago: kick and scream about it ;) | 11:15 |
| anttu | i think that is my mistake | 11:15 |
| thiago | I don't intend on abiding by any decision that isn't the most comfortable one for me | 11:15 |
| anttu | more coffee needed | 11:15 |
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| thiago | if it doesn't work, I'll just deploy my own SDK | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | thiago: so, what is your ideal setup? | 11:16 |
| thiago | cross-compiling from Creator | 11:16 |
| thiago | and a compiler I can use in the compile farm | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | which uses what as backend? a toolchan and a sysroot? | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | +i | 11:16 |
| thiago | toolchain and sysroot | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | how about packaging then? not in your scope? | 11:17 |
| thiago | no | 11:18 |
| thiago | I don't need packaging. I make lousy applications. | 11:19 |
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| * Stskeeps tries booting meego on his joggler | 11:30 | |
| Stskeeps | woo | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | "Welcome to Meego" | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | also, isn't that supposed to be MeeGo | 11:31 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Cool :-) | 11:37 |
| Jaffa | I was going to ask, what with a Joggler coming, whether the Mer efforts will be rewarded with Mer^x or MeeGo | 11:37 |
| anttu | zhuyanhai: changing sdb1 to sdb did the trick, thanks | 11:38 |
| anttu | login, password? | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: i'm planning to put MeeGo on it as it is a developer device for me | 11:38 |
| anttu | got it | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: i'm pursuing some different angles with mer^2 one of which is recompiling the whole bloody thing for armv6+vfp :P | 11:39 |
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| robsta | morn' | 11:44 |
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| * w00t_ kicks Stskeeps in the shin | 11:46 | |
| Tm_T | päivää, moin, K'day | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | w00t_: mm? | 11:47 |
| w00t_ | hi ;) | 11:47 |
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| zhuyanhai | anttu: you're welcome :) | 11:56 |
| zhuyanhai | anttu: try meego as password? | 11:57 |
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| anttu | zhuyanhai: yes, i quessed it, thanks | 11:59 |
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| Stskeeps | woo | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | functionality wise, i now have joggler with a meego xterm ;) | 12:25 |
| johnel | I have a couple of stupid(?) questions if that is ok? | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | shoot | 12:26 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: cool | 12:26 |
| slaine | How did you solve the PSB problem ? | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: in a really dirty way | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | trying to get GL to work now | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | grabbed xserver 1.6 from moblin 1.6 and installed it ;) | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | err, 2.1 | 12:27 |
| slaine | lol, was about to ask if that's what you did in the end | 12:27 |
| robsta | johnel: irc rule #1: don't ask to ask, just ask | 12:27 |
| johnel | OK, I have an n900 and looking at the architecture diagram on MeeGo and just want to know how much of this is included in the images (I know th gui stuff is missing, e.g how much middleware is included) | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | there's an Xterm on n900 | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | go look in trunk what's there | 12:28 |
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| Chuck_ | hi | 12:29 |
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| johnel | Told you it was stupid question! I was just curious if I can play with underlying components with xterm and dbus. Thanks | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | there's plenty to try and install | 12:30 |
| robsta | johnel: probably easier to play with them on the desktop though, most should run | 12:30 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Mer^2 would be cool for the Joggler until MeeGo ramps up; having nokia-apps would be fun | 12:32 |
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| johnel | robsta: Do you mean install the image (e.g. use qemu) on my Linux laptop and poke about with MeeGo from there? | 12:34 |
| robsta | johnel: it would be easier if you disclosed what components you're interested in | 12:35 |
| robsta | easier to answer | 12:36 |
| robsta | geoclue for example runs just fine on the desktop | 12:37 |
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| johnel | robsta: Basicallly my ultimate goal is have MeeGo installed on n900 and MeeGo installed on laptop (e.g. bootable usb key) and in theory run "identical" systems | 12:39 |
| anttu | is there something rotten in the meego repositories? | 12:40 |
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| robsta | johnel: you can probably do that today and feel like 1970 without a gui | 12:41 |
| anttu | yum update just give errors | 12:44 |
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| cyberkonsult | CosmoHill: Are You awake? | 12:49 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 12:49 |
| cyberkonsult | ah... progress on VirtualBox? | 12:49 |
| CosmoHill | someone got it to work | 12:49 |
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| CosmoHill | I just got very angery and lef | 12:49 |
| CosmoHill | left* | 12:49 |
| cyberkonsult | k, I got the emergency shell through pci=off | 12:50 |
| CosmoHill | http://sundtek.de/meego/index.txt | 12:50 |
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| cyberkonsult | after the pci probingstuff the kernel got a null dereference (null) | 12:50 |
| cyberkonsult | So, where is the howto to get it working? | 12:51 |
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| anttu | what is the trick to get yum working? | 12:51 |
| CosmoHill | i didn't think meego was going to use yum | 12:51 |
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| anttu | there is yum command and repos | 12:52 |
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| johnel | robsta: I was *born* in 1970! | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | slaine: i kinda wonder if there's anything stopping iegd people from making a meego 0.9 release though | 12:57 |
| CosmoHill | iegd? | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, drivers are better than no drivers at all | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | intel embedded graphics drivers | 12:57 |
| lbt | well, we can ask intel to ask the iegd people | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | i'd be perfectly happy with a tablets-dev.nokia.com like setup | 12:58 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: well, once they get a new xserver compatible driver, I'll be ready :) | 12:58 |
| CosmoHill | just wondering | 12:58 |
| CosmoHill | say i made a virtualbox image of meego with a fedora kernel, would we be allowed to put that on the wiki? | 12:59 |
| CosmoHill | or would fedora beat me up? | 12:59 |
| robsta | CosmoHill: beat you up in the name of freedom? | 13:01 |
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| CosmoHill | help if i download the right rpm | 13:05 |
| CosmoHill | and using ethernet instead of wireless gives me a 100KB/s boost :) | 13:06 |
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| alden | CosmoHill: hey :) | 13:20 |
| CosmoHill | hi | 13:20 |
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| alden | CosmoHill: any luck with running meego in VB? | 13:20 |
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| CosmoHill | if I can't get it working in the next 39 mins I'm giving up | 13:22 |
| alden | CosmoHill: i created a vdi, and set VB's hard disk to the vdi image, but when i boot it frezes on 'kernel_thread_helper+0x6/0x10' message | 13:22 |
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| CosmoHill | that's what I get too with the default kernel | 13:22 |
| alden | CosmoHill: what did you do post that? | 13:22 |
| alden | CosmoHill: you compiled a custom kernel? | 13:23 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 13:23 |
| alden | what did you change? | 13:23 |
| CosmoHill | the initrd was the biggest problem | 13:23 |
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| alden | CosmoHill: who got it to work? | 13:24 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 13:24 |
| CosmoHill | got it to drop into emergancy shell tho | 13:24 |
| alden | CosmoHill: no, you said someone got it to work in VB.. | 13:25 |
| CosmoHill | i just got the emergancy shell in vm | 13:25 |
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| anttu | anybody got yum working in meego? | 13:29 |
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| Stskeeps | ARM, X86? | 13:29 |
| anttu | atom | 13:29 |
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| Stskeeps | is your /etc/resolv.conf correct? | 13:30 |
| anttu | at least ping nokia.com works ok | 13:30 |
| anttu | so dns resolving works | 13:31 |
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| postmanPechkin | hi | 13:39 |
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| postmanPechkin | ; | 13:40 |
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| CosmoHill | hi | 13:41 |
| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: have you booted meego? | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | on a atom device but not really as it is intended to be like | 13:42 |
| mrec | CosmoHill: did you check this one: http://sundtek.de/meego/index.txt ? | 13:42 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 13:42 |
| CosmoHill | what did you change in initrd ? | 13:42 |
| slaine | Ah mrec, you're markus, hey | 13:43 |
| slaine | Glen Gray from Lincor here | 13:43 |
| mrec | it's ubuntu initrd, the initscript just modified to mount the meego partition | 13:43 |
| mrec | slaine: we should talk next week I got a bad call from Empia :P | 13:43 |
| slaine | sure | 13:43 |
| CosmoHill | mind if i package that into a .vdi and upload that to a server? | 13:43 |
| mrec | think we can improve your situation | 13:43 |
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| slaine | padraig's off this week, so I'm not sure what's been happening | 13:43 |
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| slaine | we can talk next week | 13:44 |
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| mrec | CosmoHill: it's ubuntu stuff you can do whatever you want with it :) original ubuntu initrd + few changes in initscript | 13:44 |
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| CosmoHill | I just tried with the 9.04 and initrd | 13:44 |
| mrec | I used 9.10 | 13:44 |
| mrec | slaine: did you see our new products? we have 100% supported devices now (I'm not with empia anymore but I have some products based on their chips) | 13:45 |
| mrec | standby everything is there | 13:45 |
| mrec | even RDS with FM radio :) | 13:45 |
| slaine | mrec, padraig mentioned it alright | 13:45 |
| mrec | slaine: http://sundtek.com/images/vivi.png | 13:45 |
| slaine | We can talk about again, this isn't really the forum | 13:46 |
| mrec | ya | 13:46 |
| mrec | we also target meego | 13:46 |
| CosmoHill | mrec: okay I've done your thing and updated the install boot options | 13:47 |
| CosmoHill | (you only updated the live boot options) | 13:47 |
| mrec | CosmoHill: I never tested anything else but since the gui is missing I wasn't really interested | 13:49 |
| mrec | it's smarter to use the ubuntu kernel since it's better tested than the meego x86 kernel | 13:50 |
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| mrec | and I'm very sure that debian and ubuntu people are putting more work into maintainance than Intel or Nokia will ever do | 13:50 |
| trumee | Just got my joggler from the O2 store :D | 13:50 |
| CosmoHill | i think I've broken it anyway :( | 13:50 |
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| trumee | one day i will have meego running on it (fingers crossed) | 13:50 |
| mrec | CosmoHill: you can just add /bin/sh to the initrd script in order to fall back to the console and continue manually with the setup | 13:50 |
| mrec | once you have the setup completed automize it in the initscript | 13:51 |
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| CosmoHill | hmm | 13:53 |
| CosmoHill | once I can get it to boot I'll just upload the vdi image | 13:54 |
| mrec | ubuntu also has the advantage they aim at getting their stuff work wherever it's possible (in case of x86) | 13:54 |
| mrec | so the kern is already patched up | 13:54 |
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| CosmoHill | yesterday i spent ages trying to get it to work and ran into all sorts of problems | 13:56 |
| mrec | it took me around 30 minutes to fix it up like that | 13:56 |
| CosmoHill | then you came up with a easy solution and I was "rawr ffs screw this" | 13:56 |
| mrec | I do not have any good experience with redhat kernels | 13:56 |
| alden | once ur able to boot to a console, how complicated is it to get an xserver installed and running? | 13:57 |
| CosmoHill | 1.6 or newer? | 13:57 |
| alden | are there video drivers in the tree? | 13:57 |
| mrec | the current X server might be screwed for the 'virtual' hardware which is available in a virtual machine | 13:57 |
| mrec | replace it with ubuntu and it will work hehe | 13:57 |
| alden | CosmoHill: either? | 13:58 |
| mrec | finally the smartest thing to do is to pick entire ubuntu and just take the Meego gui and you'll be set | 13:58 |
| alden | sorry, i know too little | 13:58 |
| CosmoHill | 1.6 you compile all of it in one go | 13:58 |
| CosmoHill | 1.7 and later you compile easy part by itself | 13:58 |
| CosmoHill | mrec: you son of a bitch it worked | 13:58 |
| mrec | throw away redhat | 13:59 |
| CosmoHill | I copied the kernel and initrd over from your tarball :) | 13:59 |
| mrec | I know it works but what now? got a great console heh | 13:59 |
| mrec | and yum which takes 5 seconds for displaying the help screen | 14:00 |
| CosmoHill | who cares :p | 14:00 |
| alden | got to a shell using a ubuntu kernel? nice :D | 14:00 |
| mrec | alden: http://www.sundtek.de/meego/index.txt | 14:00 |
| CosmoHill | gmm | 14:01 |
| CosmoHill | I typed "shutdown -h now" and it's just sitting there | 14:01 |
| alden | mrec: Im running the default meego kernel in VB.. it freezes halfway through boot.. not sure what to do next | 14:02 |
| mrec | it's a waste of time to work with it since there's no gui in it | 14:02 |
| CosmoHill | alden: lucky for you i got this working with mrec stuff just before lunch since that was my cutup time | 14:02 |
| alden | CosmoHill: sweet :) | 14:03 |
| alden | CosmoHill: u gonna put up the .vdi image? | 14:04 |
| CosmoHill | what do you think people would perver more, a virtualbox bootable usbimg file or a pre-installed meego image? | 14:04 |
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| CosmoHill | erm | 14:05 |
| CosmoHill | actually it looks like the boot install is broken | 14:05 |
| alden | CosmoHill: its easy to create a vdi from a meego image right? | 14:05 |
| CosmoHill | one mo | 14:05 |
| alden | ofcourse | 14:05 |
| mrec | CosmoHill: it never worked I think | 14:06 |
| mrec | not even with the original version | 14:06 |
| slaine | if you enable the extras repo you might be able to install the XFCE desktop | 14:06 |
| CosmoHill | i saw that and bailed | 14:06 |
| slaine | yum groupinstall "XFCE" | 14:06 |
| CosmoHill | so people can only have the usbimg image | 14:06 |
| mrec | intel and nokia invested all their money and hired a student who cobbled together this incomplete system within a half day probably | 14:06 |
| thiago | expensive students | 14:08 |
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| alden | hehe | 14:08 |
| thiago | you can see that the kernel was compiled on March 31 | 14:08 |
| CosmoHill | dammit | 14:08 |
| Stskeeps | mrec: you're assuming trunk says anything about end architecture :P | 14:09 |
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| slaine | With OBS ist should be possible to compile it all every day | 14:11 |
| * CosmoHill compresses meego-iso.vdi | 14:14 | |
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| mrec | CosmoHill: when you upload it please add a note to that sysimage.tar.gz howto.. | 14:15 |
| CosmoHill | sure | 14:16 |
| CosmoHill | mrec: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/readme.txt | 14:20 |
| mrec | 2010-04-02 19:16:15 [957] initializing audio in audio processor | 14:20 |
| mrec | ups | 14:20 |
| mrec | great :) | 14:20 |
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| CosmoHill | cool | 14:20 |
| CosmoHill | cos my english sucks :( | 14:20 |
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| CosmoHill | Note: the meego-iso.vdi image is about 206MB, if it is less than that it's | 14:22 |
| CosmoHill | still uploading. | 14:22 |
| mrec | I was wondering why just a few kb | 14:22 |
| CosmoHill | *217 | 14:22 |
| CosmoHill | it's gonna take over an hour for it to upload | 14:23 |
| CosmoHill | so keep guide until then :) | 14:23 |
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| CosmoHill | *quiet | 14:25 |
| CosmoHill | duno why I said guide | 14:25 |
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| anttu | i got yum working | 14:27 |
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| anttu | just needed to enable and disable the right repos in /etc/yum repo files to get rid of errors | 14:28 |
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| anttu | there is 130 mb updates flowing in now | 14:28 |
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| CosmoHill | you're on a n900 aren't you? | 14:31 |
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| anttu | atom it is | 14:37 |
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| CosmoHill | anttu: and it installed fine? | 14:44 |
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| ohan | Hello, is it possible to upgrade moblin 2 to meego ? | 14:47 |
| CosmoHill | no | 14:48 |
| ohan | oki, thx | 14:48 |
| CosmoHill | meego is about 3 days old and doesn't have x11 | 14:48 |
| Mek | hmm? doesn't have x11? I thought it came with (only) an xterm, and thus x11... | 14:49 |
| * CosmoHill shurgs | 14:50 | |
| Stskeeps | intel images boot to console | 14:51 |
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| anttu | CosmoHill: no, lots of stuff missing | 15:05 |
| anttu | tried to install ppp, but stumbled to libpcap | 15:05 |
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| andli | sweet | 15:13 |
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| CosmoHill | who here is interested in meego for virtual box? | 15:29 |
| andli | sure, why not | 15:32 |
| andli | how to run android apps in maemo/meego, using the emulator? | 15:33 |
| CosmoHill | there will be one in 17 mins | 15:33 |
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| Backtrack | people... can i ask some questions bout maemo here? | 15:34 |
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| CosmoHill | you can try | 15:35 |
| Backtrack | thanks... i mean to extract some firmware files from the vanilla .bin file of maemo... the standard software dont work... | 15:36 |
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| andli | Backtrack: you want to extract firmware files from the vanilla .bin file of maemo | 15:38 |
| Backtrack | yes | 15:38 |
| andli | please go ahead | 15:38 |
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| Backtrack | nero doesnt work. the bin file inst a normal bin... | 15:39 |
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| Backtrack | during the flashing, just the maemo flasher extract and send the files... but maemo flasher has a part some tasks to do this... the only way is maemo flasher or a good bin extractor. | 15:41 |
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| andli | Backtrack: hack the maemo flasher :) | 15:43 |
| Backtrack | yes how :) | 15:44 |
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| Blacktrack | sorry i get disconnected | 15:48 |
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| CosmoHill | http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/ | 15:50 |
| Blacktrack | hi all... i need to open an vanilla image file (bin that includes firmware files of frmantle). can you help me to do that?? thanks in advance | 15:52 |
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| Stskeeps | Blacktrack: you can't extract a fs that way | 15:54 |
| JPerlow | CosmoHill: your web server isnt allowing me to download your vdi file | 15:55 |
| JPerlow | permissions issue | 15:55 |
| CosmoHill | oh | 15:55 |
| JPerlow | what modifications did you make, the syslinux? | 15:56 |
| alden | CosmoHill: 403 on meego-iso.vdi | 15:56 |
| Blacktrack | <Stskeeps> do you know some ways to do that? nothing is impossible in a wold of computers | 15:56 |
| CosmoHill | okay now you can get it | 15:56 |
| CosmoHill | JPerlow: see the readme file | 15:56 |
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| dgegne | hi | 15:56 |
| JPerlow | ok now its downloading | 15:57 |
| CosmoHill | for some reason it was 777 instead of 744 | 15:57 |
| JPerlow | thanks for the effort, I was going to do the syslinux junk on the image this morning and convert it | 15:57 |
| dgegne | no UI? | 15:57 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 15:57 |
| JPerlow | someone should put it up on the meego web site | 15:57 |
| alden | CosmoHill: why would 777 give a permissions error? | 15:57 |
| CosmoHill | *700 | 15:57 |
| alden | k | 15:58 |
| JPerlow | yeah 700 would nail it | 15:58 |
| JPerlow | lol | 15:58 |
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| dgegne | CosmoHill i saw Xorg server in the repository, it means that i can have a GUI? | 15:58 |
| CosmoHill | i think you can instlal something | 15:58 |
| CosmoHill | it might just be twm | 15:58 |
| Blacktrack | has meego yat a gui??? | 15:59 |
| dgegne | another question: install from usbimg doesn't work | 15:59 |
| Blacktrack | sorry... i mean has meego yet a gui??? | 15:59 |
| JPerlow | I'm coming to a shell prompt | 16:00 |
| JPerlow | do you have to manually log in and fire off X? | 16:00 |
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| JPerlow | what's the default root pw? | 16:01 |
| dgegne | anyone was able to install it on a netbook? | 16:02 |
| dgegne | JPerlow meego | 16:02 |
| CosmoHill | JPerlow: "meego" | 16:02 |
| JPerlow | ok logged in | 16:02 |
| JPerlow | no X? | 16:03 |
| * CosmoHill shrugs | 16:03 | |
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| Stskeeps | on intel no | 16:03 |
| JPerlow | do I have to pull it in on repos? | 16:03 |
| dgegne | i saw xorg in the updates | 16:03 |
| dgegne | but i'm not able to install it | 16:04 |
| dgegne | the install procedure fails | 16:04 |
| JPerlow | well my network isnt functioning for starters, I wonder what modules its looking for | 16:05 |
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| JPerlow | I'll try the intel instead of pcnet | 16:05 |
| JPerlow | yep, likes intel pro 1000 | 16:06 |
| JPerlow | not pcnet | 16:06 |
| dgegne | jperlow are you using usb boot disk? | 16:06 |
| JPerlow | I'm using cosmolite's VDI file for virtualbox | 16:07 |
| JPerlow | I dont have a physical netbook | 16:07 |
| dgegne | k | 16:07 |
| JPerlow | I can see some of the repos are erroring out | 16:07 |
| JPerlow | when I do yum update | 16:07 |
| JPerlow | the three primaries are ok | 16:07 |
| JPerlow | the extra repo blows up | 16:07 |
| dgegne | i'm trying to install fedora and then update it to meego | 16:08 |
| dgegne | is it a bad idea? | 16:08 |
| JPerlow | meego-devel and meego-primary are ok | 16:08 |
| JPerlow | meego-extra no good | 16:08 |
| JPerlow | maybe they are doing some maintenance | 16:08 |
| JPerlow | theres a ton of gui packages in the main repodata | 16:11 |
| JPerlow | maybe it requires an install | 16:11 |
| JPerlow | instead of just booting it | 16:11 |
| robsta | dgegne: yes | 16:13 |
| dgegne | yes what | 16:13 |
| robsta | bad idea | 16:14 |
| dgegne | i saw a howto for that | 16:14 |
| dgegne | for moblin | 16:14 |
| JPerlow | man the installer does not like this vdi | 16:14 |
| dgegne | robsta how can i install meego on a netbook? | 16:14 |
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| JPerlow | init comes up with no more processes | 16:14 |
| epictetus | wish i had an n900 so i could try it out | 16:14 |
| dockside | how much source do i need to pull to get something that compiles into a working system atm?, got a very limited line here=/ | 16:14 |
| robsta | dgegne: i would not recommend to do that, there's no GUI | 16:15 |
| JPerlow | I can't beleive they would come up with a developer release this raw | 16:15 |
| Surfa | developer release is developer release | 16:15 |
| JPerlow | how the heck do they expect to compete against android or chromium | 16:15 |
| lcuk | it hit slashdot btw: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/02/1228249/-Intel-and-Nokia-Provide-First-MeeGo-Release | 16:15 |
| Surfa | first touch, nothing more | 16:15 |
| JPerlow | surfa, yes, developer, but basic stuff should work | 16:16 |
| robsta | dgegne: only the very early moblin releases were based on fedora, it's a distro of it's own now | 16:16 |
| lcuk | are most developers intent on being low level system developers, or used to using an ide and toolkits | 16:16 |
| robsta | dgegne: that's like saying you install fedora and the update to mandriva, it will blow up | 16:16 |
| JPerlow | did they primarily focus on the Nokia devices first for this release? | 16:17 |
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| JPerlow | I wonder if theres an easy way to install all the rpms from the OS repo in one shot | 16:17 |
| JPerlow | if they have a meta package | 16:18 |
| dockside | doesnt really matter if it works, from that i have seen there is enough for ppl to start working, that means more man power then what they would have had if they didnt release it | 16:18 |
| JPerlow | this seems like a rush job | 16:18 |
| JPerlow | I expect a lot more from a company like nokia | 16:19 |
| dockside | i hve 3s latency on my line so it will have towait for me | 16:19 |
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| Stskeeps | JPerlow: the idea is to start development in the open. it is noot a release. | 16:19 |
| robsta | JPerlow: it's impossible to please everyone, many people here were complaining that nothing was published | 16:19 |
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| JPerlow | robsta, this is less fuctional than the moblin betas | 16:19 |
| dockside | more i would say | 16:19 |
| dockside | this release never was about functionality | 16:20 |
| robsta | JPerlow: if you want to work on gui apps you don't need a meego release for that, all the libs are available for the desktop | 16:20 |
| robsta | this is really for developers, not users | 16:20 |
| JPerlow | robsta: you still need to be able to prototype on a working desktop with the same subset | 16:21 |
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| Surfa | yep, you need to know what need and what you have | 16:21 |
| slaine | JPerlow: and if they released with a full system tonnes of people would be complaining that it was all done behind closed doors and there was no community involvement | 16:21 |
| JPerlow | the toolchain needs to be in there, the gui needs to be in there, etc | 16:21 |
| dockside | nope | 16:21 |
| robsta | JPerlow: if you are targetting netbooks you just need to develop something nice for a screen size of 1024x600 in clutter/mx or QT | 16:22 |
| lcuk | but if the gui is set and rigid NOW then theres no way to realistically shape it to operate across the board of devices | 16:22 |
| lcuk | robsta, if you are developing a single resolution now you fail drastically | 16:22 |
| dockside | you dont need it to be there , it would be good if it were tho, there is still work to do | 16:22 |
| JPerlow | robsta but how are you supposed to test it with the UI of meego | 16:22 |
| lcuk | qt has fully dynamic widgetsets and you can handle resizing gracefully | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | it is a os develope release, not developer | 16:23 |
| robsta | lcuk: yes, but the smallest size will be 1024x600 | 16:23 |
| lcuk | robsta, principle 1: rotation, that 1024*600 display can easily become a 600*1024 display | 16:23 |
| robsta | (for netbooks) | 16:23 |
| lcuk | no it wont | 16:23 |
| JPerlow | if I built a Qt app, using those dimensions, that only gives me the app, compiled against a toolchain on not meego | 16:23 |
| dockside | 840x480 is n900 res no+ | 16:23 |
| lcuk | you cannot say that | 16:23 |
| lcuk | 480*800 likewise | 16:23 |
| robsta | lcuk: i am an intel developer if that makes a difference | 16:24 |
| lcuk | NEVER think in one resolution - please | 16:24 |
| JPerlow | this is hardly an SDK | 16:24 |
| lcuk | not in the slightest | 16:24 |
| dockside | not my point | 16:24 |
| JPerlow | I used to run the developer program for the Zaurus | 16:24 |
| Surfa | JPerlow, it's not meant to be? | 16:24 |
| JPerlow | I thought Sharp was totally disorganized, this is nuts | 16:25 |
| robsta | dockside: 840x480 n900 is handset UX, not netbook | 16:25 |
| dockside | my point was that 1024x600 not was the smallest screen meego is made for | 16:25 |
| Surfa | now couple of people can start their work, not everyone, it's not the point | 16:25 |
| dockside | ah | 16:25 |
| Surfa | just be patient, you can't have everything on first release | 16:25 |
| lcuk | robsta, 800*480 or 480*800 | 16:25 |
| JPerlow | I was really looking forward to demoing this in a screencast for my readers | 16:25 |
| lcuk | 840 isnt res | 16:25 |
| JPerlow | I guess I'm going to have to put it off a few months | 16:25 |
| robsta | lcuk: yes, handset, not netbook | 16:25 |
| lcuk | are you sure all netbooks have a single resolution and will do for life of your app? | 16:26 |
| dockside | imo very little of the dvelopmenti is gui work | 16:26 |
| robsta | lcuk: you can have higher resolution of course | 16:26 |
| Surfa | dockside, depends what your'e doing | 16:27 |
| dockside | qt is great at resizing,this is a none issue | 16:27 |
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| lcuk | robsta, you can have lower too | 16:27 |
| robsta | lcuk: not with the netbook UX | 16:27 |
| lcuk | isnt there an eee netbook with tablet touchscreen / slate format for rotatability | 16:28 |
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| jacekowski | hi all | 16:29 |
| dockside | btw anyone compiled the kernel for non atom x86? | 16:29 |
| * lcuk used to write resolution variant apps in visual basic - it should be a non issue nowadays to just write a ui that scales gracefully | 16:29 | |
| Stskeeps | you will need to recompile entire system,dockside | 16:30 |
| dockside | any ugly inline asm that will make it fail? | 16:30 |
| dockside | i would clone the repos myself if i had connection fast enough to =/ | 16:31 |
| epictetus | how does meego run on an n900? | 16:31 |
| epictetus | does it boot up and give you a shell? | 16:31 |
| epictetus | has anybody tried yet | 16:31 |
| Surfa | well, inline asm is good for some things, actually excellent | 16:32 |
| slaine | epictetus: it boots up to x and gives you an xterm | 16:32 |
| Surfa | epictetus, yes and yes | 16:32 |
| epictetus | cool | 16:32 |
| epictetus | does telephony or networking work? | 16:33 |
| dockside | not if it requires instructions that i dont have=/ | 16:33 |
| robsta | dockside: also make sure to give clutter/mx a spin, it's ahead of qt in some areas | 16:34 |
| robsta | (re qt great for scalable UI) | 16:34 |
| robsta | and there's a development environment for clutter+mx+javascript in the works | 16:36 |
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| dnaumov | are there any walkthroughs/reviews of the meego release on an n900? | 16:39 |
| epictetus | i was just getting some details out of slaine and surfa, I'm not sure if networking or telephony work yet but they say it does boot into X and give you an xterm | 16:40 |
| slaine | dnaumov: There is no release | 16:41 |
| dnaumov | oh, so its a bit early for installing on a device that is the one and only primary phone in posession? | 16:41 |
| slaine | Release won't happen until may | 16:41 |
| epictetus | i run cellbots.com a site for doing robots on cellphones I am excited that eventually this may be a good OS for cellphone robotics applications | 16:41 |
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| slaine | if you're a developer and want to help make meego a great product then by all means. If you want to keep using your n900 then not yet | 16:42 |
| slaine | epictetus: cool | 16:42 |
| epictetus | slaine: networking? | 16:42 |
| epictetus | hehe | 16:42 |
| epictetus | slaine: or telephony? | 16:42 |
| slaine | I know that ofono is on there and works at a very basic level | 16:43 |
| slaine | but other than that, I don't know | 16:43 |
| epictetus | what's ofono | 16:43 |
| slaine | the radio stack | 16:43 |
| slaine | ofono.org | 16:43 |
| epictetus | ahh | 16:43 |
| slaine | Nokia and Intel started the project last year | 16:43 |
| slaine | So the merger wasn't really that much of a shock as you might say :) | 16:44 |
| epictetus | so no wifi or 3g yet though | 16:44 |
| slaine | no idea, I'm coming at this from the x86 netbook side | 16:44 |
| epictetus | ahh | 16:44 |
| slaine | networking works there | 16:44 |
| epictetus | i'm completely uninterested in the netbook side :) don't you already have 9812381923 linux distros that run on netbooks | 16:45 |
| lcuk | 9812381924 | 16:45 |
| lcuk | 9812381925 | 16:45 |
| lcuk | 9812381926 | 16:45 |
| lcuk | :D | 16:46 |
| epictetus | exactly | 16:46 |
| robsta | epictetus: the thing is that windows, gnome and kde suck on netbooks | 16:46 |
| epictetus | xfce? pwm? fvwm? | 16:46 |
| dockside | awesome rocks on netbooks | 16:46 |
| dockside | bet it would rock on a n900 too | 16:47 |
| epictetus | there must be some windowing system that is good | 16:47 |
| slaine | Moblin rocked on netbooks | 16:47 |
| epictetus | i also think the netbook fad is gonna die out | 16:47 |
| slaine | that's why I'm interested in MeeGo | 16:47 |
| johnel | I think a less-bloated Linux distro that is actually consumer friendly is needed and MeeGo seems to fit that (eventually) | 16:47 |
| robsta | if you like moblin, you will love meego, slaine | 16:48 |
| slaine | epictetus: in fairness, if it's a fad, it's lasting a long time and changing the way all the pc manufacturers operate | 16:48 |
| slaine | robsta: oh I know, tehehe | 16:48 |
| lcuk | i want a lightning fast optimized experience on my big pc too - its not just netbooks that have slow running things | 16:49 |
| robsta | lcuk: on the desktop the speed (or lack thereof) is more in the apps you use i think | 16:50 |
| lcuk | i have an intel dual core 20inch allinone multitouch jobby and i want it to purr whilst not acting as a room heater with juddery graphics | 16:50 |
| lcuk | robsta, yes, the apps are not optimized | 16:50 |
| lcuk | "buy more hardware, bigger faster hotter" | 16:50 |
| robsta | lcuk: but for fast graphics meego/netbook will excel, because it's hardware accelerated | 16:50 |
| lcuk | screw that, i used to run a proper desktop happily on my 7mhz amiga | 16:50 |
| robsta | lcuk: and you can do things like this in hardware http://chrislord.net/blog/Software/mx-deform-texture.enlighten | 16:51 |
| lcuk | robsta, the thing about hardware accelerated - especially for x11 is that the hardware accel just extends the pipeline | 16:52 |
| lcuk | thecpu is mostly involved in the original rendering onto pixmaps | 16:52 |
| lcuk | then its passed to the hardware for compositing | 16:52 |
| lcuk | then its sent to display | 16:52 |
| robsta | lcuk: not with clutter, it goes to opengl, not X11 | 16:52 |
| lcuk | yes, clutter stage and actors are good and nice and bypass it | 16:53 |
| lcuk | but thats specifically clutter | 16:53 |
| slaine | and the netbook ux will use that | 16:53 |
| lcuk | how many apps are pure clutter | 16:54 |
| slaine | all the netbook ux ones ;) | 16:54 |
| lcuk | or rather, which - ie dont use gtk or qt | 16:54 |
| robsta | slaine: well, most | 16:54 |
| slaine | robsta: I was eager for moblin2.2 so I'm excited to see what you've all come up with for meego 1.0 | 16:55 |
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| robsta | lcuk: what apps are you using that have the graphics subsystem as bottleneck? | 17:01 |
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| lcuk | robsta, everything is a bottleneck on mobile device - i have very high standards and expectations of speed :) | 17:02 |
| lcuk | overview of how i like things to run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok | 17:03 |
| robsta | lcuk: you were referring to your desktop before | 17:03 |
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| lcuk | robsta, yes, likewise | 17:04 |
| lcuk | intel hcipsets are suboptimal for desktop resolutions | 17:04 |
| robsta | vid looks nice | 17:04 |
| robsta | i guess you want full HW accel for that kind of stuff | 17:05 |
| robsta | means clutter, not qt | 17:05 |
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| lcuk | yeah robsta :) tis the fastest pathway i could find on the device, direct single rendering chain | 17:05 |
| lcuk | i see no reason why qt cant achieve similar | 17:06 |
| robsta | it probably can, but now i hear QGraphicsView with opengl backend is not up to what clutter does | 17:07 |
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| robsta | lcuk: i've also seen HW accelerated svg rendering on top of clutter | 17:08 |
| robsta | maybe it's that kind of stuff you're after? | 17:08 |
| lcuk | clutter has its share of problems that qt can solve | 17:08 |
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| lcuk | ie, is there a windows port? | 17:08 |
| robsta | it used to work on windows at one point | 17:09 |
| robsta | i.e. there's nothing preventing it | 17:09 |
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| lcuk | yeah, but being able to build and run qt for * desktops is powerful :) | 17:09 |
| lcuk | then likewise for handhelds etc | 17:09 |
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| robsta | yes qt has an edge over clutter there,. undoubtedly | 17:10 |
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| robsta | but OTOH you can't achieve what clutter does with qt now | 17:10 |
| robsta | (if you look at the link i pasted above) | 17:10 |
| lcuk | so as long as its optimized enough and can be continued to work on (painter->* especially) it can be more practically useful | 17:11 |
| lcuk | robsta, clutter is good, dont get me wrong | 17:11 |
| robsta | clutter also has a11y almost done, you don't have that for QGraphicsView | 17:12 |
| robsta | and redhat will sponsor work on clutter/a11y as part of gnome3 | 17:12 |
| lcuk | most apps are happy in native qt tho | 17:12 |
| lcuk | or native gtk | 17:13 |
| slaine | lcuk, just looking at your liqbase stuff, really nice | 17:13 |
| lcuk | you dont need more, its a case of "meh need configuration dialog" | 17:13 |
| lcuk | not fancy pants | 17:13 |
| lcuk | slaine, :) | 17:13 |
| robsta | lcuk: that's why i was asking where you're having graphics bottlenecks | 17:13 |
| lcuk | on a bit of a hold atm whilst i work on something more important | 17:13 |
| slaine | gotta pay the bills alright | 17:13 |
| lcuk | robsta, transition effects on the winmanager are important | 17:13 |
| w00t_ | lcuk wants to get all the chicks | 17:14 |
| lcuk | wants? | 17:14 |
| lcuk | i have all the chick i need | 17:14 |
| w00t_ | hehe | 17:14 |
| lcuk | would the os/qt/meego need a graphics settings thing | 17:15 |
| lcuk | like games | 17:15 |
| lcuk | graphics level: low/medium/high | 17:15 |
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| lcuk | antialiasing etc | 17:15 |
| robsta | no | 17:16 |
| robsta | there's no point in such a thing for the meego product | 17:17 |
| alden | that qt logo animation in qtdemo runs quite smoothly on my desktop machine | 17:17 |
| robsta | you just want a pleasing default appearance | 17:17 |
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| robsta | meego is not compiz | 17:18 |
| lcuk | robsta, why is there no need? | 17:18 |
| lcuk | have you ever run on low powered platform? | 17:18 |
| lcuk | i want battery life! | 17:18 |
| lcuk | compromise and flexibility are important | 17:19 |
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| robsta | lcuk: the handset images will take that into account | 17:19 |
| b-man17 | some people are even complaining about the fact that meego uses bash instead of busybox lol | 17:19 |
| lcuk | lol b-man17 | 17:19 |
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| lcuk | robsta, but that same handset image can be docked and have full speed high power available sometimes | 17:20 |
| lcuk | and i might want that showing fancy nice animated live uis | 17:20 |
| robsta | lcuk: in that cases you don't want to have to change a setting, it should just work | 17:20 |
| lcuk | but then i might want to also charge quickly so want to drop to minimal | 17:20 |
| lcuk | robsta, people are fussy, they like tweaking things | 17:20 |
| lcuk | gives them some purpose | 17:20 |
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| robsta | lcuk: exactly, such an app / added bling is perfect for a community project | 17:21 |
| lcuk | having an app without configuration (microsoft surface globe im looking right at you) is silly | 17:21 |
| robsta | i can't see nokia or intel putting $$ on that | 17:21 |
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| lcuk | on maemo we have clutter based wm with fancy pants transitions | 17:22 |
| lcuk | and bling sells devices | 17:22 |
| robsta | i'm not saying there should not be bling | 17:23 |
| robsta | i'm saying there should be sensible bling by default | 17:23 |
| lcuk | you just said they wont, but both companies have | 17:23 |
| * w00t_ isn't really following where this conversation is going | 17:23 | |
| robsta | and there should not be an app to tweak how much bling you get for the purpose of extending battery life | 17:23 |
| * lcuk isnt either | 17:23 | |
| * robsta neither | 17:23 | |
| w00t_ | new topic! | 17:24 |
| w00t_ | meego: can it be ported to run on your toaster? | 17:24 |
| slaine | Happy Friday | 17:24 |
| robsta | better i shut up then it guess | 17:24 |
| robsta | slaine, same to you, sir | 17:24 |
| slaine | w00t_: it runs on new moorsetown toasters | 17:24 |
| lcuk | my allinone multitouch device fails when i try to draw boobies on the screen | 17:24 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: hahah | 17:24 |
| b-man17 | rolflol | 17:24 |
| w00t_ | did PB get back to you yet? | 17:24 |
| lcuk | infact, lemme just get tracy to hold the camera | 17:24 |
| * b-man17 dies | 17:24 | |
| lcuk | the example i gave before wasnt representative of boob drawing | 17:25 |
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| lcuk | brb with booby drawings | 17:26 |
| w00t_ | lol | 17:26 |
| b-man17 | rofl | 17:27 |
| slaine | I saw the best ssid the other day, "(.)(.) Boobies Tehehe" | 17:27 |
| w00t_ | I've seen some really strange ones in my time :P | 17:28 |
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| w00t_ | one of my neighbours is 'THRUSH' | 17:28 |
| w00t_ | I hope that's not representative of anythinfg | 17:28 |
| w00t_ | -f | 17:28 |
| slaine | haha | 17:28 |
| * b-man17 attempts to build NetBSD's ash shell on his N900... fails miserably.. | 17:29 | |
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| blackduck | Is there anybody here that can answer a question or two regarding the meego git repository structure? | 17:49 |
| blackduck | Effectively, I'm trying to find out if there's any sort of master git manifest, or perhaps a simple way of checking out the source for the entire project, as I have noticed that it appears to be set up so only each subcomponent has it's own manifest. | 17:50 |
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| alden | I've booted into a shell using CosmoHills vdi image | 18:05 |
| alden | networking seems to work | 18:06 |
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| alden | how can i get the list of packages available for install? is there an apt-get equivalent? | 18:15 |
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| alden | (on meego) | 18:15 |
| drizztbsd | alden: is a standard rpm-based system | 18:16 |
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| drizztbsd | rpm -qa | 18:16 |
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| drizztbsd | man rpm; man yum | 18:16 |
| blackduck | so, is it safe to assume that there's no all-encompassing way to check out all of the currently available source code? as far as I can tell, it's only able to be checked out on an individual component level. is this correct? | 18:17 |
| blackduck | i'm not interested in compiling or anything of that sort, if that makes a difference. | 18:17 |
| alden | im wondering what the quickest way to get a display up is | 18:18 |
| blackduck | (the company i work for [see username] is interested in obtaining the source for our database of FOSS) | 18:18 |
| alden | a window manager | 18:18 |
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| alden | window system* | 18:20 |
| blackduck | From what I've read, there is no available window manager, only terminal access at this point. I could be wrong, of course. | 18:20 |
| blackduck | looks like that will fall under the "user experience" category when code becomes available for it. | 18:21 |
| alden | yeah i know | 18:22 |
| alden | ive gotten to a terminal | 18:23 |
| blackduck | then, forgive me if i'm mistaken, but isn't that what you're asking about doing? | 18:23 |
| alden | cant i build something on top of this if i pull all the dependencies? | 18:23 |
| blackduck | ah. i suppose that makes sense, not that i have an answer for you though. good luck. | 18:23 |
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| Stskeeps | there are plenty packages to install | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | just not many installed | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | world is your oyser, etc | 18:28 |
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| pinchartl | hi | 18:28 |
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| dreamer | anyone here know if the phone stack on the n900 works with meego currently? | 18:29 |
| alden | Stskeeps: any suggestions about getting X running? | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | alden: -fbdev is in repo | 18:30 |
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| alden | is there a way i can install all of the rpms in http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/ia32/os/i586/ in one shot? | 18:32 |
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| Stskeeps | dreamer: ofono git might | 18:37 |
| milliams | startxr | 18:38 |
| milliams | whoops, ignore that :) | 18:38 |
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| dreamer | stskeeps: thanks | 18:39 |
| dreamer | do you know if there's a modified bootloader so it can be tested off sd? | 18:39 |
| Stskeeps | dreamer: try out the kexec patches | 18:41 |
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| alden | does rpm have an option to automatically resolve dependencies? | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | yum or zypper | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | kinda like apt-get | 18:48 |
| alden | gives me a 404 error | 18:49 |
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| Stskeeps | on arm? | 18:49 |
| alden | intel | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | shouldnt give 404s | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | pastebin? | 18:50 |
| milliams | zypper worked for me | 18:50 |
| alden | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/extra/repo/ia32/os/repodata/3a8a709742a1f931fb,,,,,-primary.sqlite.bz2: [Error 14] HTTP Error 404: <same url> | 18:51 |
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| milliams | in zypper I did get an error something like that but I just chose 'i' for ignore and it worked for downloading the packages. | 18:53 |
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| alden | milliams: which packages did u install? | 18:53 |
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| milliams | I did `zypper in qt-creator` which installed everything that it depends on. | 18:53 |
| milliams | However, there wasn't space on the disk to install the actual creator package or one other but the rest installed fine. | 18:54 |
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| alden | zypper give me Failed to download /repodata/repomd.xml from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/extra/repo/ia32/os | 18:56 |
| ezjd | There is an ia32 image for N900, do you know what is it for? | 18:56 |
| milliams | alden: yeah, and if you do 'i' then enter it seems to be able to carry on. | 18:57 |
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| drizztbsd | ezjd: debug, development | 19:09 |
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| _Sky_ | is there any easy way i can "install" meego, i actually boot from the usb image in virtualbox but all changes are made in the ram | 19:11 |
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| milliams | r | 19:16 |
| sykopomp | love you guys. | 19:16 |
| ezjd | drizzbsd: I am downloading it assuming it will run on x86 ... | 19:18 |
| sykopomp | question about the release, btw: the blog post says it just boots into a terminal. Does that mean you have to start the graphical session yourself, or that none of the user-side stuff is included yet? | 19:19 |
| DawnFoster | sykopomp - the GUI isn't included yet | 19:20 |
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| ezjd | sykopomp: I saw xserver, Qt lib are available in repo | 19:20 |
| sykopomp | DawnFoster: what kind of contributions is the project hoping for right now? | 19:21 |
| DawnFoster | this first step was to give the lower level developers a starting point and something to test. | 19:21 |
| DawnFoster | sykopomp mostly people who want to contribute to the meego core os. | 19:21 |
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| _Sky_ | yes, x-server is installed , but doesn't start by itself and i guess there is nothing special to see if you get it working | 19:21 |
| sykopomp | DawnFoster: great :) | 19:22 |
| sykopomp | It's really nice to see the project taking off already. | 19:22 |
| DawnFoster | sykopomp thanks! and feel free to submit some bugs :) | 19:22 |
| DawnFoster | or better yet, write patches :) | 19:22 |
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| sykopomp | DawnFoster: I might throw it on my eeepc this weekend and check it out :) | 19:23 |
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| sykopomp | where's the tracker at? | 19:23 |
| _Sky_ | maybe here http://bugzilla.meego.com/ | 19:24 |
| sykopomp | thanks, bookmarked! | 19:24 |
| DawnFoster | sykopomp cool. Let us know how it goes. _Sky_ yep - that's the link! | 19:24 |
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| alden | HOLY MOTHER OF COW | 19:36 |
| alden | i got x running! :D | 19:36 |
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| ezjd | alden: how? | 19:41 |
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| * thiago guesses he typed startx | 19:41 | |
| ml-mobile | the netbook build does not have X by default | 19:42 |
| ezjd | thiago: No I didn't see startx nor did xinit/X | 19:42 |
| alden | installed it from extras using zypper like milliams said | 19:43 |
| thiago | after you install X, of course | 19:43 |
| alden | running in VirtualBox btw | 19:43 |
| ezjd | ml_mobile: so I need to install X by myself. btw, I am using N900 image with qemu | 19:43 |
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| alden | hadnt expected it to be this easy | 19:44 |
| ml-mobile | oh, N900 | 19:44 |
| dgegne | ml-mobile is there a GUI for netbooks? | 19:45 |
| cyberkonsult | alden: How did you get it to boot in VB?? | 19:45 |
| ml-mobile | not that I have seen | 19:45 |
| alden | cyberkonsult: i used CosmoHill's vdi image which replaced the default kernel with an ubuntu one | 19:45 |
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| auke | lbt: no, we won't make meego required to do meego development | 19:46 |
| auke | lbt: but, there are obvious issues with supporting other distro's for meego development | 19:46 |
| cyberkonsult | alden: ok.. thanks | 19:46 |
| microlith | mmm, much faster typing than the N900 | 19:47 |
| microlith | anyway | 19:47 |
| microlith | I had meego up on my AA1 yesterday, but I am loathe to figure out how to connect to a WEP protected AP with only iwconfig | 19:47 |
| lbt | auke: yep - but if there's a policy saying that A, B and C will be supported then it helps to ensure that a tool that doesn't work on them is not released until it does | 19:47 |
| microlith | so I suppose X could have been pulled down via zypper or yum, but I did not try | 19:47 |
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| lbt | and what "obvious issues" ? | 19:48 |
| alden | worked with zypper, yum gave me 404 errors | 19:48 |
| ezjd | alden: btw, what is host CPU you are using? I have AMD PC, always get illegal instruction so I moved to arm image ... | 19:48 |
| microlith | as for my N900, I need to get an SD card and figure out how to boot off of it | 19:48 |
| alden | ezjd: intel | 19:49 |
| alden | c2d | 19:49 |
| auke | lbt: the fact that people tend to use various older versions of other distros and expect them all to work and be compatible etc. | 19:49 |
| auke | for one | 19:49 |
| lbt | well, that's true for older versions of Meego too | 19:50 |
| ezjd | auke: btw u r talking about host OS? | 19:50 |
| auke | lbt: I think the image-creater will have a clear list of what is supported | 19:50 |
| auke | ezjd: yes | 19:50 |
| alden | trying to get the mouse to work now | 19:50 |
| ezjd | auke: what is the recommended one? | 19:50 |
| auke | ezjd: MeeGo | 19:50 |
| alden | theres no config file in /etc/X11 | 19:50 |
| * microlith wishes the Zoom-II platforms weren't so expensive | 19:50 | |
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| lbt | I'm pushing to ensure the Meego SDK and tools are clearly encapsulated and to avoid wuestions like ezjd's | 19:51 |
| sykopomp | auke: supporting other distros for development is not so much of a problem if you expect them to do final testing on meego itself :) | 19:51 |
| auke | sykopomp: exactly | 19:51 |
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| lbt | there is no way MeeGo itself should be "the recommended one" | 19:51 |
| auke | lbt: I disagree, completely | 19:51 |
| sykopomp | lbt: for release? Absolutely it should be. | 19:51 |
| microlith | is there a beagleboard revision with built-in ethernet? | 19:51 |
| auke | self-hosted, for a generic distribution, is a _must_ | 19:51 |
| lbt | Meego's UI should be totally unsuitable for terminal level developers | 19:51 |
| auke | besides that I'm doing all my work on MeeGo | 19:51 |
| auke | we have several UI's | 19:52 |
| sykopomp | you don't want to test an application on Ubuntu and claim it'll run fine on MeeGo, sorry :\ | 19:52 |
| auke | not just the handset | 19:52 |
| lbt | sykopomp: indeed | 19:52 |
| auke | you're all forgetting MeeGo is much more than an embedded phone OS | 19:52 |
| auke | we'll have netbook UI's, etc etc | 19:53 |
| sykopomp | are all applications expected to work on all platforms, then? | 19:53 |
| sykopomp | that would be silly. | 19:53 |
| lbt | sykopomp: you do want to ensure you *can* test an app on ubuntu and be damned sure it works though : | 19:53 |
| auke | in principle | 19:53 |
| sykopomp | lbt: no. You can't. | 19:53 |
| sykopomp | lbt: you can do a reasonable amount of development right on ubuntu. | 19:53 |
| sykopomp | but you can't test on ubuntu. | 19:53 |
| auke | yes we expect all applications to work everywhere (unless hardware constraints, screen sizes etc) | 19:53 |
| sykopomp | auke: precisely because of hardware constraints. | 19:54 |
| lbt | sykopomp: let's say ARM then... | 19:54 |
| auke | let's set one thing straight: we DO NOT test on fedora, ubuntu | 19:54 |
| lbt | I can't test w/o flashing to a device? | 19:54 |
| auke | all the QA is done on MeeGo | 19:54 |
| lbt | paff | 19:54 |
| sykopomp | lbt: no, Ubuntu patches its software. You cannot reasonable guarantee that it'll run on MeeGo just because it runs on Ubuntu. | 19:54 |
| sykopomp | these are two different systems. | 19:54 |
| lbt | indeed - hence the need for encapsulation | 19:54 |
| sykopomp | Running QA on Ubuntu is a waste of time. | 19:54 |
| lbt | so when I test on ubuntu I'm using the meego libs | 19:54 |
| sykopomp | you're still testing on top of the ubuntu stack. | 19:55 |
| sykopomp | not the stack you're actually going to deliver on. | 19:55 |
| auke | lbt: you don't want to be the person who tells QA that they need to test all their packages on 3 OSs instead of 1 | 19:55 |
| lbt | and there's a difference between QA and dev-testing | 19:55 |
| auke | oh dont get me started on that | 19:55 |
| lbt | I was talking about developing | 19:55 |
| auke | developer: here's my package, IT WORKS! | 19:55 |
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| auke | QA: no, it's broken | 19:55 |
| auke | developer: nah ah, works for me! | 19:55 |
| lbt | heh - auke you're preaching to the converted here | 19:55 |
| sykopomp | auke: don't get me started. I do QA for a living. :| | 19:56 |
| sykopomp | "reopen..." "this works" "no it doesn't" "yes it does" "make it better" | 19:56 |
| auke | here's a free pass to hit a developer on the head once | 19:56 |
| alden | how do i stop x? | 19:56 |
| auke | pkill Xorg | 19:56 |
| lbt | and that is my point | 19:56 |
| lbt | if you make it hard for devs to test on their dev-env... it hurts QA | 19:57 |
| lbt | they won't use MEeGo because you ask nicely you know | 19:57 |
| lbt | they don't pick their desktop for our benefit | 19:57 |
| sykopomp | lbt: they're developing for MeeGo. They should use a VM. | 19:57 |
| sykopomp | no? :) | 19:57 |
| lbt | no | 19:57 |
| lbt | seriously no | 19:58 |
| lbt | they should test in a VM | 19:58 |
| lbt | but emacs/eclipse will run on ubuntu/fedora/gentoo | 19:58 |
| sykopomp | sure | 19:58 |
| lbt | so we need to think about how to ease that | 19:58 |
| thiago | you don't need to run your dev environment on MeeGo | 19:58 |
| lbt | and the answer is *NOT* to assume they use Meego as the desktop | 19:59 |
| thiago | you just need to deploy the app and run it | 19:59 |
| thiago | and remote debug | 19:59 |
| thiago | if you can do that to a device running a different processor, you can to a VM | 19:59 |
| sykopomp | ^ | 19:59 |
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| sykopomp | both Google and Apple have VMs that they ship with their SDK | 19:59 |
| * thiago really doesn't think running Qt Creator on the N900 is a solution to anything | 19:59 | |
| lbt | so... the answer "Meego is our preferred dev env" will minimise efforts and assumptions like ^^^ | 19:59 |
| sykopomp | is that the way MeeGo is going to go about it? | 20:00 |
| thiago | hopefully not | 20:00 |
| thiago | Qt Creator + MADDE can already deploy, run and debug remote apps | 20:01 |
| lbt | sadly it appears like that was indeed the 1st cut approach | 20:01 |
| thiago | that's how Moblin did it | 20:01 |
| w00t_ | lbt: to be fair, it's really, really early days | 20:01 |
| thiago | it doesn't mean it's the proper solution (IMO) | 20:01 |
| thiago | there's still work to be done | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: so, what are you going to help make developer nirvana happen? :) | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | +to | 20:01 |
| lbt | make people check some assumptions | 20:02 |
| ezjd | I think whether host OS matters or not depends on whether MeeGO directly uses cross compiling or not, esp.for ARM. | 20:02 |
| lbt | and you know I favour the managed minimal chroot/VM approach | 20:02 |
| Stskeeps | ideally we will have two sdks | 20:02 |
| Stskeeps | meego sdk and platform sdk | 20:03 |
| lbt | I'm a big fan of some of scratchboxes concepts... | 20:03 |
| lbt | *some* of | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | first one is for qt, second is for everything that can't be compiled with a simple cross compile | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:03 |
| lbt | and I think the OBS stuff allows that to be improved upon | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | first one needs a developer machine neutral backend | 20:03 |
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| * thiago agrees with Stskeeps | 20:03 | |
| thiago | most app developers won't need the Platform SDK | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | and three, the image creation tools. | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | and those are the tools we need to develop. | 20:04 |
| thiago | well, the basis of a simple cross-compiling SDK is a cross-compiler and the sysroot | 20:04 |
| thiago | the sysroot is the same for all distros, even for Mac and Windows | 20:05 |
| thiago | the toolchain is all opensource. We can compile for a suitable set of distros, but you can always rebuild it yourself. | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | image creation tools should ideally be a simple VM so even the non-platform-SDK can generate their own mages | 20:05 |
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| thiago | or other distros can, if they feel they need to. | 20:05 |
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| ezjd | My understanding is that with OBS, we don't need to worry about dev env too much, for local dev (I prefer), most likely, sth like qemu with chroot, scratchbox or VM has to used | 20:06 |
| sykopomp | what kind of support is MeeGo getting from Intel and Nokia, anyway? | 20:06 |
| pinchartl | newbie question, will the SDK run all dev tools natively, or will it run some of them in qemu like scratchbox ? | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | pinchartl: qt sdk would just run a cross compiler | 20:06 |
| thiago | sykopomp: what kind of question is that? | 20:06 |
| pinchartl | Stskeeps: thanks god :-) | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | sykopomp: a lot, as far as i can tell | 20:06 |
| thiago | pinchartl: what Stskeeps said, we believe | 20:06 |
| sykopomp | thiago: financial, full-time developer support, marketing support, etc. | 20:06 |
| RST38h | Hmmm, MeeGo makes it to Slashdot. Here goes meego.com infrastructure... | 20:06 |
| w00t_ | sykopomp: umm. | 20:07 |
| thiago | but until the SDK drops, we won't k now | 20:07 |
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| thiago | sykopomp: yes, all of that | 20:07 |
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| Stskeeps | sykopomp: they're betting the maemo shop on the brand | 20:07 |
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| Stskeeps | so you can estimate that however you like | 20:07 |
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| microlith | RST38h: It's been up there for a couple hours, I don't think the masses quite grasp it | 20:07 |
| RST38h | Ahhaha, immediate packaging format war rages in the comments :))) | 20:07 |
| lbt | my concern over Qt going off on its own is that when you get things that need a little more complexity, it burns you | 20:07 |
| thiago | lbt: true, but you'd be amazed how far you can go with it | 20:08 |
| RST38h | lbt: POSIX. | 20:08 |
| lbt | and by "off on its own" I mean having a QtCreator cross-compiler vs a platform SDK internal toolchain | 20:08 |
| thiago | lbt: for 15 years Qt clients have been using tools like tmake and qmake | 20:08 |
| thiago | lbt: they do just fine with it | 20:08 |
| RST38h | Tying your projects to Qt is a bad idea anyway | 20:08 |
| RST38h | Makes them unportable. | 20:08 |
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| thiago | RST38h: where else would you port your project to? | 20:09 |
| lbt | thiago: he got you :) | 20:09 |
| RST38h | thiago: You want Unix or non-Unix platform? | 20:09 |
| thiago | RST38h: yes | 20:09 |
| dockside | what does not qt run on that you want to run it on? native lisp-machines? | 20:09 |
| dockside | sincere question actually | 20:10 |
| pinchartl | dockside: are there native lisp machines ? | 20:10 |
| thiago | POSIX has no GUI. It's nice, but it won't get you very far. | 20:10 |
| sykopomp | pinchartl: Yes. | 20:10 |
| dilinger | can OBS be installed locally? | 20:10 |
| RST38h | thiago: If you want Linux, let us make it Freescale STMP36xx | 20:10 |
| microlith | dockside: Qt doesn't have enough parenthesis for lisp | 20:11 |
| sykopomp | pinchartl: Also known as best-operating-systems-ever. | 20:11 |
| thiago | RST38h: sorry? | 20:11 |
| RST38h | thiago: No Qt. No X11. | 20:11 |
| thiago | RST38h: Qt can run on Linux without X11. | 20:11 |
| dilinger | or is it just the centralized build system, and there's no option of reproducing builds locally? | 20:11 |
| RST38h | thiago: If you want non-Linux, let us say, a generic 386EX board running FreeDOS | 20:11 |
| dockside | there are native lisp machines yes. | 20:11 |
| lbt | dilinger: nope | 20:11 |
| thiago | QtCore and QtXml have been ported to DOS. | 20:11 |
| thiago | I know who did it. | 20:11 |
| dilinger | that's going to cause pain down the line | 20:12 |
| RST38h | thiago: Yes, only compiling it for that particular platform is undoable for a few other reasons | 20:12 |
| thiago | and DOS isn't POSIX either. | 20:12 |
| thiago | are you going to restrict yourself to ANSI/ISO C? | 20:12 |
| lbt | dilinger: what is? the thing I said isn't correct? | 20:12 |
| dockside | imo if you want to run freedos you are wrong | 20:12 |
| RST38h | thiago: DOS + Watcom is POSIX enough | 20:12 |
| thiago | anyway, sure, if you go looking for it, you're going to find cases | 20:12 |
| thiago | I'm calling them corner cases | 20:12 |
| dilinger | (perhaps less pain that scratchbox, though. *shudder*) | 20:12 |
| thiago | most app developers want GUI. | 20:13 |
| dilinger | s/that/than/ | 20:13 |
| infobot | dilinger meant: (perhaps less pain than scratchbox, though. *shudder*) | 20:13 |
| ezjd | does anyone know if N900 image works with qemu? I can't get it running | 20:13 |
| dilinger | lbt: not being able to reproduce builds locally | 20:13 |
| * lbt wonders if dilinger is optically challenged... :) | 20:13 | |
| csgeek | meego has qt actually, the VM you can run | 20:13 |
| csgeek | at least it's in the repos | 20:13 |
| b-man17 | ~blow up | 20:13 |
| * infobot blows up | 20:13 | |
| thiago | RST38h: btw, Symbian's POSIX layer is buggy and slow. | 20:14 |
| RST38h | thiago: My problem is that I am constantly hitting these corner cases | 20:14 |
| thiago | RST38h: I don't know what your line of work is. | 20:14 |
| RST38h | thiago: Symbian's POSIX is enough for me, I only need it to do a few mallocs at startup and read files. | 20:14 |
| lbt | RST38h: then don't pick a generic platform optimised for mainstreams... try K&R C | 20:14 |
| csgeek | does meego have some form of feed/twitter or something to follow. I'm interested to see what they release in the next few days | 20:15 |
| sykopomp | RST38h: what would you rather have? Swing? :) | 20:15 |
| thiago | csgeek: there's a blog. | 20:15 |
| RST38h | lbt: I am ok with K&R C, although most platforms support modern C/C++ now | 20:15 |
| sykopomp | RST38h: if you're afraid of Qt, build your app in layers so you don't tie the view to the model ;) | 20:15 |
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| lbt | ah, but think of the corner cases RST38h :) | 20:15 |
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| odin_ | hi all... is there a Wiki page of _ALL_ working group meetings? (not in Wiki if the "What links here" is anything to go by. | 20:16 |
| csgeek | nice. the blog has an RSS feed | 20:16 |
| csgeek | perfect | 20:16 |
| RST38h | sykopomp: I am not *afraid* of Qt. I am simply not considering it a universal solution | 20:16 |
| sykopomp | ah | 20:16 |
| lbt | RST38h: it's not a universal solution... it's an extremely wide solution | 20:16 |
| sykopomp | can you not run anything in MeeGo's GUI unless it's Qt? | 20:16 |
| thiago | sykopomp: sure you can | 20:16 |
| RST38h | lbt: Actually, there are so few corner cases for K&R C left that I can safely drop them | 20:17 |
| sykopomp | then what's the problem? | 20:17 |
| thiago | MeeGo is X11, so you can run any other toolkit you want to | 20:17 |
| lbt | sykopomp: curses | 20:17 |
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| thiago | Gtk and Clutter are in the base distro too. | 20:17 |
| RST38h | lbt: But Qt-less corner cases are everywhere in embedded world | 20:17 |
| csgeek | well.. you could run anything that compiles in Linux in Meego | 20:17 |
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| *** D is now known as lbt | 20:17 | |
| lbt | oops | 20:17 |
| sykopomp | RST38h: then don't tie your app to Qt? I'm confused as to what the argument is about :\ | 20:17 |
| csgeek | at this point anyways... that's sort of up in the air ... we have no "GUI" yet | 20:17 |
| RST38h | sykopomp: I am not aware of any problems I have. Not sure what you mean | 20:17 |
| lbt | RST38h: but MEego isn't 'embedded' | 20:17 |
| RST38h | sykopomp: Sorry, I do not think you read the whole discussion. | 20:18 |
| sykopomp | yeah, I must've missed something. I'll crawl back into the background now. | 20:18 |
| thiago | lbt: well, it kinda is | 20:18 |
| RST38h | lbt: Why would I develop something solely for MeeGo? | 20:18 |
| sykopomp | lbt: n900 isn't considered an embedded platform? | 20:18 |
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| lbt | god no | 20:18 |
| thiago | RST38h: depends on what you're developing, I guess | 20:19 |
| lbt | it has tons of disk/cpu/ram, 800x640 screen, keyboard, touch.... | 20:19 |
| thiago | but yeah, if you can, you should address more markets | 20:19 |
| lbt | that's a damned desktop | 20:19 |
| csgeek | n900 is a cell phone.. embedded is a lot more limiting compared to some "embedded" devices | 20:19 |
| csgeek | hell.. Meego is targetting tablets too | 20:19 |
| RST38h | lbt: There is not even a single commercial case for MeeGo apps yet, so I have no idea why I would develop anything solely for MeeGo, unless Nokia or Intel pay me for it, specifically | 20:19 |
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| lbt | RST38h: I don't disagree | 20:19 |
| csgeek | nextgen of both cell phones and tables will have a lot more resources and horsepower too | 20:20 |
| csgeek | *tablets even | 20:20 |
| RST38h | lbt: But to cover as many platforms as possible I have to be flexible. Hence, POSIX, plain framebuffer, simple audio buffers, etc | 20:20 |
| nidO | depends on what time you have available to put into forward-thinking projects. being first to market with a product for a new (planned-to-be) widespread platform puts you in prime position to make a killing | 20:20 |
| nidO | regardless of whether the commercial case is there *this instant* | 20:20 |
| csgeek | RST38h: but the point is.. you can run develop apps for Linux and for the part the could just "work" on meego | 20:20 |
| RST38h | lbt: Got an SDL-like layer that abstracts most of it with minimal effort | 20:20 |
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| lbt | thiago: if we claim to target embedded then we're looking at systems with no gui, keyboard etc. minimal RAM, few Mb of disk | 20:21 |
| csgeek | technically your only limitation is screen size + resources | 20:21 |
| alden | im able to start x without a configuration file, but when i use one it exits with the following error(s): (EE) open /dev/fb0: No such file or directory, (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have usable configuration, Fatal server error: no screens found | 20:21 |
| thiago | lbt: I know a lot of embedded systems with GUI | 20:21 |
| lbt | a gui is almost the definition of not embedded | 20:21 |
| thiago | I disagree | 20:21 |
| lbt | unless you mean 2x40char display | 20:22 |
| nidO | depends on how far you stretch the definition of gui | 20:22 |
| ezjd | alden: you need framebuffer | 20:22 |
| thiago | no | 20:22 |
| thiago | an LCD is a GUI | 20:22 |
| lbt | heh - if it runs X it's not embedded | 20:22 |
| alden | ezjd: i installed it.. it works without x.config | 20:22 |
| lbt | Qtopi | 20:22 |
| lbt | a | 20:22 |
| thiago | framebuffer | 20:22 |
| lbt | maybe | 20:22 |
| ezjd | alden: your xorg.conf points to framebuffer | 20:23 |
| * thiago points to the HP PhotoSmart printer | 20:23 | |
| lbt | I think the point is that MeeGo is looking at battery powered and small physical size | 20:23 |
| thiago | embedded? | 20:23 |
| nidO | its much more simplistic than that. it's perfectly plausible for embedded systems to have lcd gui's, what makes them embedded is their lack of flexibility | 20:23 |
| RST38h | Actually, the definition of "embedded" has been shifting lately | 20:23 |
| lbt | if it runs Qt Gui it's not embedded | 20:24 |
| alden | ezjd: yeah thats what the error says.. tho i cant find a line in x.conf that says /dev/fb0 | 20:24 |
| RST38h | Things like N900 are still embedded, in the traditional sense of the word | 20:24 |
| microlith | wouldn't classifying something as "embedded" necessarily imply a restricted feature set and fixed capabilities? | 20:24 |
| RST38h | lbt: Not really | 20:24 |
| nidO | my ICE/nav computer has an lcd ui, but the wince computer that runs it is still clearly an embedded system | 20:24 |
| RST38h | lbt: Still embedded | 20:24 |
| thiago | lbt: we'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of embedded | 20:24 |
| lbt | feel free to be wrong ;) | 20:24 |
| ezjd | alden: w/o xorg.conf, xserver used standard vga or sth else, you can check /var/log/X.log.0 to figure out | 20:24 |
| * RST38h has heard the term "deeply embedded" for the low end screen-less, keyboard-less stuff | 20:24 | |
| lbt | it's not really a physical thing anyway | 20:25 |
| microlith | like how my desk phone (cisco IP phone) would be "embedded" but my N900 is "mobile" or "wireless" | 20:25 |
| nidO | microlith yes basically. a device with a gui that can still only accomplish a specific limited set of tasks is embedded | 20:25 |
| lbt | it's more a usage/mentality thing | 20:25 |
| RST38h | N900 is still embedded | 20:25 |
| nidO | while devices like the n900 are clearly much more flexible, and not embedded | 20:25 |
| RST38h | Just got way more resources | 20:25 |
| microlith | nidO: well, even thing without a gui, just fixed-function | 20:25 |
| dockside | laptops are embedded | 20:25 |
| lbt | N900 isn't embedded because it's a general purpose computer | 20:25 |
| RST38h | laptops are not | 20:25 |
| RST38h | inside, a laptop is really a traditional PC | 20:25 |
| dockside | not all | 20:25 |
| RST38h | netbooks *may* bee soncisdered embedded ;) | 20:25 |
| RST38h | At least some | 20:25 |
| microlith | logically the only thing that -makes- something embedded is how the hardware is set up | 20:25 |
| dockside | ok, so all macs are embedded? | 20:26 |
| lbt | heh l8r anyhow | 20:26 |
| RST38h | lbt: N900 is not a general purpose computer | 20:26 |
| w00t_ | RST38h: to you, maybe | 20:26 |
| * b-man17 uses his N900 like a laptop - heck, i write/compile software on the device | 20:26 | |
| microlith | RST38h: it isn't? | 20:26 |
| w00t_ | I'd disagree | 20:26 |
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| RST38h | lbt: Try some general purpose computations on it and see what your experience is | 20:26 |
| nidO | it seems quite obvious to me. if you can significantly expand on / alter the feature set (either hardware or software) from how it came out of the box, it's not embedded | 20:26 |
| nidO | if you cant, it is | 20:26 |
| RST38h | lbt: Start with Matlab ;) | 20:26 |
| nidO | I dont see the complication | 20:26 |
| ezjd | alden: sorry I can't get meego running so I am guessing ... you might need to check what x.org driver is available | 20:26 |
| microlith | RST38h: scale is something entirely different :) | 20:27 |
| RST38h | lbt: Then try LISP and Prolog, for generality | 20:27 |
| lbt | RST38h: they all run | 20:27 |
| sykopomp | RST38h: Lisp* | 20:27 |
| RST38h | lbt: Take notice of performance | 20:27 |
| lbt | so | 20:27 |
| lbt | big deal ... it's slow | 20:27 |
| RST38h | lbt: And the amount of stuff you can put in, before the system folds due to lack of resources | 20:27 |
| dockside | why would ru something resource hungry on a lightweight device? you do that on a remote machine | 20:27 |
| lbt | compile Qt on a 486 | 20:27 |
| arjan | lbt:bwahahaha | 20:27 |
| RST38h | lbt: So, yes, N900 is not a general purpose computer, it is a pretty nice embedded device though | 20:27 |
| microlith | RST38h: by that logic all computers become "embedded" as technology progresses | 20:27 |
| w00t_ | my 10 year old PC is slow, too, yet that wasn't (and isn't, as far as I'm concerned) considered embedded | 20:27 |
| dockside | would take a few months :) | 20:28 |
| lbt | RST38h: general purpose is not at all the same as performant | 20:28 |
| w00t_ | it's a good argument, but it's a very subjective and simplified view | 20:28 |
| sykopomp | RST38h: and Lisp is not the same as 'slow'. | 20:28 |
| dockside | nope | 20:28 |
| nidO | lbt, debatable. if it runs a Qt GUI but is locked down so that it can't do anything beyond what it's shipped as being able to do, I would say it is | 20:28 |
| lbt | nidO: nope... that's just licensing | 20:29 |
| nidO | (that goes back a while) | 20:29 |
| w00t_ | I think this raises a much more important issue tbh | 20:29 |
| lbt | the vendor *could* write anything nidO | 20:29 |
| nidO | licensing or not, if the device can't be altered to do more than it comes out of the box as being able to do, essentially that's embedded | 20:29 |
| nidO | thats the definition of the word | 20:29 |
| RST38h | lbt: General purpose == "can be used for any purpose other general purpose computers are used for" | 20:29 |
| RST38h | lbt: So, your PC is a general purpose computer (let us not argue that). It runs FireFox quite well. Try running Fennec on N900 ;) | 20:30 |
| RST38h | lbt: How about OpenOffice? Is it usable? | 20:30 |
| lbt | nidO: its *a* use of the word - and applies to a PS3 too | 20:30 |
| microlith | RST38h: arbitrary cpu/ram restrictions do not sufficiently define a boundary between embedded and general-purpose | 20:30 |
| RST38h | lbt: Most N900 software has to be specifically OPTIMIZED for N900. Hence, it is an embedded system not a gp computer | 20:30 |
| lbt | heh - all perfect examples of why the N900 is not embedded | 20:30 |
| w00t_ | RST38h: so again, is my 10 year old PC embedded? | 20:30 |
| lbt | you have to "optimise" for performance | 20:30 |
| nidO | RST38h the same goes the other way round. you have to optimise it for performance because it was written for something else | 20:31 |
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| lbt | but RST38h you're not listening | 20:31 |
| RST38h | lbt: To be gp computer, it has to be able to run gp applications. Instead, it runs a set of specifically written apps for a bunch of usage cases that Nokia targeted it for | 20:31 |
| nidO | if you write an app from the ground up for the n900 then want to deploy it on a debian system | 20:31 |
| nidO | you need to optimise it for that debian system | 20:31 |
| nidO | does that make pc's running debian embedded? | 20:31 |
| nidO | no. | 20:31 |
| RST38h | nid0: If we are talking PC, then in most cases I do not | 20:31 |
| microlith | RST38h: by default, I can can make it do above and beyond that | 20:31 |
| arjan | guys ;) | 20:31 |
| arjan | it's easy | 20:31 |
| lbt | nidO: I'm not sure what point you're tryng to make | 20:32 |
| arjan | embedded is a way of thinking | 20:32 |
| arjan | period. | 20:32 |
| lbt | :) | 20:32 |
| arjan | nothing more or les | 20:32 |
| arjan | s | 20:32 |
| lbt | exactly | 20:32 |
| arjan | there are dual CPU NHM boxes that are considered embedded | 20:32 |
| sykopomp | embedded: "small, crappy computer" | 20:32 |
| sykopomp | :D | 20:32 |
| RST38h | arjan: this is not really a definition | 20:32 |
| arjan | (telco space) | 20:32 |
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| lbt | RST38h: that's the point | 20:32 |
| RST38h | arjan: True, because they lack parts found in gp computers (display, kbd, etc) | 20:32 |
| lbt | there is no definition now | 20:32 |
| * thiago likes arjan's solution | 20:32 | |
| nidO | lbt: the point is that I disagree with RST38h's argument that the n900 is an embedded system on the basis that software has to be optimized to run on it. | 20:32 |
| thiago | "it is if I say so" | 20:32 |
| arjan | embedded = thinking, designing and optimizing for a single or very small number of use cases/applications | 20:32 |
| * w00t_ agrees with arjan | 20:33 | |
| sykopomp | RST38h: is a wallwart an embedded computer, then? | 20:33 |
| arjan | RST38h: actualy those servers may have all of those | 20:33 |
| RST38h | sykopomp: Sorry, having trouble following you. | 20:33 |
| sykopomp | RST38h: what about a full-sized server with nothing except power and ethernet cables connected to it, with identical specs to the wallwart? | 20:33 |
| arjan | n900 is sort of a hybrid, older phones were embedded clearly, but smartphones are moving out of that space | 20:33 |
| RST38h | arjan: then they are gp computers used for networking. Happens | 20:33 |
| sykopomp | RST38h: I'm talking about something like a sheevaplug :) | 20:33 |
| RST38h | sheevaplug is an embedded system, no idea what it has to do to walmart | 20:34 |
| lbt | ah... see : [18:25] <lbt> it's more a usage/mentality thing | 20:34 |
| sykopomp | RST38h: wall wart. | 20:34 |
| microlith | sykopomp: don't use wall-wart to describe a sheevaplug | 20:34 |
| microlith | very different | 20:34 |
| sykopomp | microlith: that's how I've seen it described. | 20:34 |
| RST38h | arjan: Had an ATCC full of such usage cases | 20:34 |
| RST38h | arjan: Like "an HP Apollo workstation receiving and displaing weather data from NOAA" | 20:35 |
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| RST38h | arjan: Still a gp computer though, can run all the gp apps on it | 20:35 |
| sykopomp | RST38h: Okay, now how about a full-size computer with hardware that has identical specs, and nothing but an ethernet cable and a power cable connected to it? | 20:35 |
| sykopomp | is that embedded? :) | 20:35 |
| arjan | hardware is not what makes something embedded | 20:35 |
| arjan | the question would be "is the whole end product single purpose (or small number of), or is it designed to be able to do mroe generic work" | 20:36 |
| sykopomp | arjan: 'embedded' seems to be strongly tied to 'locked down with proprietary software' | 20:36 |
| arjan | if you only want to run one single thing, you optimize towards a small computer sometimes, depending on what that usecase is | 20:36 |
| arjan | but if that usecase is "route all the IP traffic in Norway", you don't do that on a 100Mhz ARM | 20:36 |
| lbt | embedded == can't hack it to run Doom | 20:37 |
| sykopomp | lbt: ipod isn't an embedded device? | 20:38 |
| lbt | can you hack it to run Doom? | 20:38 |
| sykopomp | yes. | 20:38 |
| arjan | sykopomp: if you ignore the appstore aspect of it, it would be | 20:38 |
| lbt | no | 20:38 |
| RST38h | lbt: yes | 20:38 |
| arjan | sykopomp: but with the appstore it's turning general purpose to be honest | 20:38 |
| * lbt is now religous | 20:38 | |
| sykopomp | lbt: I ran Doom on my old iPod color :) | 20:38 |
| microlith | I don't think hackability removes the embedded tag | 20:38 |
| lbt | so it's not embedded. I now bow down to the one true rule of embeddedness. | 20:39 |
| sykopomp | arjan: nah, it's turning iApp-purpose. | 20:39 |
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| w00t_ | <groan> | 20:39 |
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| sykopomp | so MeeGo is planning to have its own sort of app store, no? | 20:42 |
| sykopomp | how's that gonna work :) | 20:42 |
| arjan | sykopomp: there's multiple of those actually | 20:42 |
| arjan | Intel has AppUp; Nokia has OvI | 20:42 |
| arjan | I suspect there will be others as well | 20:42 |
| arjan | MeeGo will have a "garage" as well (community based thing, sort of like Extras) | 20:42 |
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| microlith | and whatever those who adopt the platform set up | 20:43 |
| RST38h | arjan: You do know that maemo also has "garage", although it is not the same as extras? | 20:43 |
| lbt | and there's work afoot to make it more than just 'garage' | 20:44 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Repository_working_group | 20:44 |
| * Stskeeps glances at his joggler trying to boot MeeGo | 20:44 | |
| lbt | which is supported heavily by the maemo.org extras admins/nokians BTW | 20:44 |
| lbt | the RWG, not Stskeeps' Joggler | 20:45 |
| * lbt goes for food whilst his OBS creaks away | 20:45 | |
| lbt | lr | 20:45 |
| RST38h | Will probably end up wrapped in the same amount of red tape as Maemo Extras. Or more, judging from my experience at Intel. | 20:46 |
| arjan | RST38h: I realize "garage" and "extras" have various overloaded meanings, and there likely is space for two concepts | 20:46 |
| arjan | just need to get defined properly | 20:46 |
| arjan | the RWG proposal got sort of sent back by TSG to get more specifics ;) | 20:47 |
| sykopomp | well, can you add remote repositories not managed directly by the meego community? :) | 20:47 |
| sykopomp | and can you install arbitrary packages? | 20:47 |
| RST38h | arjan: garage is a place where you develop your project (has bugzilla, git etc) | 20:48 |
| RST38h | arjan: extras is a package repository where users download your software from | 20:48 |
| arjan | RST38h: in moblin terms, garage is the appstore-without-a-store, while extras would be "where lots of stuff gets developed" | 20:48 |
| arjan | so sort of inside out | 20:48 |
| RST38h | arjan: I guess you will have to decide on the single naming | 20:48 |
| RST38h | arjan: Probably by looking at OTHER projects to see how words are commonly defined outside MeeGo | 20:49 |
| arjan | RST38h: exactly; and I think that's one of the parts RWG proposal needs to fill in before coming back to TSG | 20:49 |
| arjan | or pick two entirely new terms ;) | 20:49 |
| RST38h | arjan: yea, right, do it the Intel way | 20:50 |
| RST38h | arjan: So that in a year, that poor repo is known under 6-8 different names and acronyms | 20:50 |
| alden | ezjd: are u running meego in a VM? | 20:51 |
| RST38h | and meeting attendees get "the list of commonly used terms" in the invitation emails | 20:51 |
| w00t_ | RST38h: I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion or helpful | 20:51 |
| RST38h | w00t: What is supposed to be relevant? | 20:52 |
| w00t_ | RST38h: presumably, working on discussing solutions to a problem instead of sniping at people because of their affiliation | 20:52 |
| RST38h | w00t: Whom am I sniping at? | 20:52 |
| w00t_ | I'll leave it there, if you really don't think you could have worded that more constructively, then... :) | 20:53 |
| * RST38h preemptively facepalms at w00t | 20:53 | |
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| Votan | u should only use the expression "sniping at" in a sentence with usa so u at least get ur own entryon the us terrorist list | 20:58 |
| microlith | :w | 20:59 |
| microlith | ... | 20:59 |
| microlith | wrong window | 20:59 |
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| w00t_ | happens to the best of us :) | 20:59 |
| Votan | yeah, bash.org is ful with "oops worng window"s | 20:59 |
| * lcuk sent multtiple text messages last night to the wrong window | 20:59 | |
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| microlith | at least I was only trying to save a file :) | 21:00 |
| lcuk | its ok i was telling tracy jake got up in the middle of the night and thought it was bathtime | 21:00 |
| ezjd | alden: not yet | 21:01 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: would patches to kernel package to make it more sane to add new devices/configs be welcome? | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | at the moment it seems not very welcoming | 21:02 |
| ezjd | alden: I am moving back to netbook image and doing the replace kernel thing | 21:02 |
| alden | ezjd: ah k.. you can download CosmoHill's vdi if u like | 21:02 |
| alden | ezjd: i think have the url somewhere | 21:03 |
| ezjd | alden: where is it? | 21:03 |
| alden | ezjd: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/meego-iso.vdi | 21:03 |
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| lcuk | alden, is cosmohills image based on the closed nokia bundle? | 21:04 |
| Stskeeps | it's x86, how can it be | 21:04 |
| alden | lcuk: im not sure.. im running it.. how can i tell? | 21:04 |
| alden | it is x86 | 21:04 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, that was why i asked, question answered | 21:04 |
| ezjd | alden: downloading ... Thx! | 21:04 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | damn, i leave for a bit | 21:12 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | and there's a massive discussion | 21:12 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | darn | 21:13 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 21:13 |
| RST38h | I can always drop in omething inflammatory again =) | 21:13 |
| Votan | hey, let's start a discussion about rpm vs deb! | 21:13 |
| sykopomp | they're both terrible! | 21:13 |
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| sykopomp | :D | 21:13 |
| RST38h | Like... "Hopefully, MeeGo will NOT use Tracker!" | 21:14 |
| thiago | it's using tracker | 21:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO | 21:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | well i really don't care | 21:14 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | but.. :) | 21:14 |
| sykopomp | what's wrong with tracker?! :) | 21:15 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | it was...written...by programmers...who work...for a company...that supports RPM! HA! EEVOOOLLL! | 21:16 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | kidding. ;) | 21:16 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | six degress of EVOL | 21:16 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | it's funny people are arguing about very high level issues while there is plenty of packages and architecture to grab at and complain about.. | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:16 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | no shit | 21:17 |
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| Votan | oh, talking about high level issue. The wallpaper sucks! :> | 21:17 |
| sykopomp | mmm... writing lisp/factor games for MeeGo would be pretty fun :D | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | so, how many of you had to deal with 'my' developer images? | 21:18 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | what are 'my' developer images? ;) | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment tatis | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | that is | 21:18 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | oh i will shortly | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | OK, will gladly take feedback. This is not how i think SDK will look in future, it is just what we have for this codedrop | 21:19 |
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| alden | gah. whats the keyboard shortcut to close a x11 window? | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | alt-f4? ;p | 21:20 |
| alden | i spawned an app that i cant close | 21:20 |
| alden | or switch to another app | 21:20 |
| alden | alt-f4 dosent work | 21:20 |
| ferringb | ctrl + q, or ctrl + shift + q, depending on the app. | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | install twm | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | yum install twm | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:21 |
| * lcuk makes a new package manager called omnomnom | 21:23 | |
| alden | dosent work | 21:23 |
| alden | cant even tell if its hung | 21:23 |
| alden | oh wait! | 21:23 |
| alden | its hung | 21:23 |
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| alden | the dials on xclock show 11:30PM | 21:23 |
| thiago | lcuk: at least choose a name that's a palindrome | 21:23 |
| alden | ive been trying to close the window for 15 mins thinking its a keystroke problem :P | 21:24 |
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| lcuk | omnomnom != monmonmo | 21:25 |
| ezjd | what is user name/pwd for VDI? | 21:25 |
| lcuk | try meego/meego | 21:26 |
| lcuk | or root/meego | 21:26 |
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| ezjd | got it root/meego | 21:27 |
| lcuk | oooh just got a linked in request from someone with 10 years of android experience | 21:27 |
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| sykopomp | lcuk: very nice. | 21:28 |
| thiago | lcuk: good one | 21:28 |
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| thiago | maybe he had experience with robotics and that's nothing to do with Google's platform | 21:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: from beijing, no doubt? | 21:28 |
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| _Sky_ | is there any easy way i can "install" meego, the grub install option does nothing, i actually boot from the usb image converted to a vdi in virtualbox but all changes are made in the ram | 21:28 |
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| gambit_ | hi all this might seam like a dumb question how does one install meego onto their netbooks? | 21:29 |
| lcuk | RST38h, dunno, where do i find location listed on profile? | 21:30 |
| * lcuk never considers such things | 21:30 | |
| gambit_ | hu? | 21:30 |
| lcuk | i just noticed a massive amount of keywords that someone would justifiably need to work for about half their life towards - but photo makes them look about 10 | 21:30 |
| gambit_ | so i'm guessing no one can help me with my install demema | 21:35 |
| lcuk | gambit_, meego wiki has install instructions | 21:36 |
| lcuk | that plenty of people have managed to walk through? | 21:36 |
| lcuk | but its not an end user ready thing yet | 21:36 |
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| gambit_ | I'm on the Wiki I can not locate the install help part of it | 21:36 |
| sykopomp | gambit_: http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | er, no, that's for building packages | 21:37 |
| gambit_ | ah that would me the issue i was looking for a the key word install not develop | 21:37 |
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| _Sky_ | thank you for the link sykopomp | 21:40 |
| malcolmlewis | Hi, is there a tool to configure the network from the command line on the core image, or do I need to manually create an ifcfg file? | 21:40 |
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| a-saint | hello I was wondering if meego is out for N900 nokia phone | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | meego.com | 21:41 |
| _Sky_ | yes there are n900 images on the website | 21:41 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | a-saint: PLEASE READ THE DISCLAIMERS AND WARNINGS | 21:42 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | a-saint: THIS IS MERELY A CODE DROP TO TEST THAT THE N900 CAN BOOT INTO THE BASE PARTS OF THE MEEGO STACK! | 21:42 |
| tripzero | most people won't find it useful | 21:43 |
| tripzero | ...yet | 21:43 |
| a-saint | TSCHAKeee2 so it's not a final release yet for n900 | 21:43 |
| _Sky_ | malcolmlewis , do you just need to configure your network for this session only or do you want to set up network so that it is configured at startup ? | 21:43 |
| * TSCHAKeee2 thwaps a-saint up side the head for being stupid. | 21:44 | |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee2: a bit rude when he did realize it :) | 21:44 |
| a-saint | TSCHAKeee2 stupid is my last name :P | 21:44 |
| Stskeeps | a-saint: it's not even a beta release | 21:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | a-saint: what you get is basically a terminal window. | 21:45 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | a-saint: X... and an xterm | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | and the entire Trunk | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:45 |
| a-saint | TSCHAKeee2 ok that's better now i can see the light :D | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | which people seem not to realize | 21:45 |
| malcolmlewis | @_Sky_ I'm just booting from a SHDC card, so just the session at present | 21:45 |
| _Sky_ | simple network would be just with: ifconfig eth0 yourip; route add default gw yourgateway; echo nameserver yournameserver > /etc/resolv.conf | 21:46 |
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| _Sky_ | i use automatic ip/route/dns (also called dhcp) at home, worked out of the box for me, no network configuration needed | 21:48 |
| a-saint | TSCHAKeee2 ok one more question! once it's released will it be available from the update manager of N900 and will it erase everything! | 21:48 |
| tripzero | a-saint, no, it probably won't | 21:49 |
| _Sky_ | :D | 21:49 |
| cyberkonsult | yum install twm gives: Error 404 : http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/Dev... 3a8a7...-primary.sqlite.bz2 | 21:49 |
| RST38h | ah, the repos are up | 21:50 |
| a-saint | tripzero we (users) will have to download the image and then install it to the phone! | 21:50 |
| tripzero | a-saint, probably | 21:50 |
| tripzero | a-saint, if you aren't a developer, idk why you'd want meego on the n900 anytime soon | 21:50 |
| cyberkonsult | there is a file-447...primary.sqlite.bz2 whats up with the long erronous filename?? | 21:51 |
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| a-saint | tripzero well I've been hearing about it quite a time and then someone said it was released so I was curious (plus it works on rpm) I use fedora so basically I will be more familliar plus I am guessing it would be better | 21:52 |
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| tripzero | a-saint, it'd undoubtedly be better... once it matures a bit | 21:53 |
| cyberkonsult | hot damned! Is it the wrong checksum bq I use another kernel?? | 21:53 |
| a-saint | tripzero then I will wait and be ready (adding that it's gonna be nokias used software and then provide support for it and n900 is a nokia phone) | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | cyberkonsult: could you paste the whole error please? | 21:56 |
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| cyberkonsult | Stskeeps.. eh..its in a VirtualBox.. dont know how to copy text .... | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | screenshots work | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:57 |
| jeremiah | It will be a long time before MeeGo is ready to run as a production OS on the N900 | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | yes, my | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | may | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:57 |
| cyberkonsult | hang on then.. | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | well, at least first release | 21:57 |
| jeremiah | Nope - longer than that | 21:57 |
| jeremiah | No matter what they say | 21:57 |
| MiXu- | may doesn,t mean production | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | you're assuming that xterm is the only thing accomplished | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:57 |
| postmanPechkin | and when will first release be? | 21:58 |
| mtnbkr | jeremiah: does the release of MeeGo imply that there will be no more updates to Maemo5? | 21:58 |
| thiago | postmanPechkin: may | 21:58 |
| thiago | mtnbkr: no, not at all | 21:58 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: You're assuming I haven't seen the ARM sources :P | 21:58 |
| thiago | mtnbkr: there will be more Maemo5 updates, as well as a Maemo6 release | 21:58 |
| thiago | even though Maemo6 is converging on MeeGo | 21:58 |
| mtnbkr | thiago: Oh... Awesome. thanks. Love my N900 and looking forward to some more updates :) | 21:59 |
| postmanPechkin | :-) | 21:59 |
| thiago | PR1.2 is just out | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | actually, not yet :P | 21:59 |
| lcuk | PR1.2 SDK | 21:59 |
| MiXu- | it's a bit hazy whats the relation between maemo6 and meego | 21:59 |
| thiago | ok, PR1.2 SDK | 21:59 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, SDK only | 21:59 |
| RST38h | That has been a reckless statement =) | 21:59 |
| jeremiah | Indeed. | 21:59 |
| tripzero | any idea when pr1.2 is going to land? | 21:59 |
| * nidO can just feel 150 idlers in this channel reaching for app manager | 21:59 | |
| jeremiah | tripzero: Ask Nokia. | 21:59 |
| leinir | tripzero: Soon(TM) ;) | 21:59 |
| tripzero | w00t | 21:59 |
| MiXu- | I'm not holding my breath :) | 22:00 |
| jeremiah | But, in all fairness, when they drop the SDK, the next version soon follows. | 22:00 |
| jeremiah | Drop in the sense of release a new version of the SDK | 22:00 |
| leinir | *nods* Yeah | 22:01 |
| lcuk | hey jeremiah \o | 22:01 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: What's up lcuk! | 22:02 |
| cyberkonsult | Stskeeps: http://www.cyberkonsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/yum_install.png | 22:02 |
| jeremiah | How are you? | 22:02 |
| lcuk | im good thanks, busy tho :) | 22:02 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: That is good news. :) | 22:02 |
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| jeremiah | cyberkonsult: What is that repo you are pulling from? | 22:02 |
| ezjd | cyberkonsult: try zypper and ignore errors | 22:03 |
| jeremiah | mobile-central.org? | 22:03 |
| * lcuk hopes to have a rest soon | 22:03 | |
| sykopomp | I thought MeeGo was debian based! | 22:03 |
| cyberkonsult | zipper?? as in 'zipper install twm' | 22:03 |
| leinir | zypper | 22:03 |
| leinir | not zipper :) | 22:03 |
| jeremiah | zypper | 22:04 |
| ezjd | yes. I tried zypper update and it worked until not space :( | 22:04 |
| * jeremiah smacks sykopomp with an old copy of the MeeGo mailing list. | 22:04 | |
| cyberkonsult | zypper works!! :) | 22:04 |
| cyberkonsult | nope | 22:04 |
| jeremiah | ezjd: You ran out of space on your device? | 22:05 |
| cyberkonsult | Failed to download -/repodata/repomd.xml fro repo.meego.com..... | 22:05 |
| jeremiah | cyberkonsult: Is that the last line of output from zypper? | 22:05 |
| jeremiah | Can you put the whole output in pastebin? | 22:05 |
| cyberkonsult | nope, Abort,retry,ignore (a) and it WORKED! | 22:06 |
| ezjd | jeremiah: yes, it is weired as df shows only 125MB as root while /dev/sda1 has 400MB from fdisk | 22:06 |
| jeremiah | ezjd: That is kinda weird. | 22:06 |
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| alden | cyberkonsult: you can ignore (i) that | 22:07 |
| ezjd | anyway even 400MB will be too small for developing, I am looking into cloning a VDI with more space | 22:08 |
| cyberkonsult | alden: thanks.. | 22:08 |
| cyberkonsult | now, twm: unable to open display.. neet to install X eh? | 22:08 |
| alden | cyberkonsult: yeah, i just did zypper install xorg-* | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: that discussion was on basis of debian including a bunch of arm fixes and such over time etc and hence meego can never be as production ready? | 22:08 |
| lcuk | ezjd, be lucky you have 400mb! | 22:08 |
| ezjd | you need to start X server firtsly (Xorg, for exmaple ) | 22:09 |
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| jeremiah | Stskeeps: My understanding is that 'production' quality is more likely to be Julyish, rather than Mayish. | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: right | 22:10 |
| cyberkonsult | good grief: problem xorg-x11-server .. requires .. soluution 1 blabla solution 2 blabla ...(scrambles my head) | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: but do i not remember correctly that someone made that argument? | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | cyberkonsult: dependancy hell is something linux learnt well from linux | 22:11 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: I thought you said 'may' | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: yeah, sorry, sidetracking a bit | 22:11 |
| jeremiah | But perhaps you meant may as in Maybe, not May. | 22:11 |
| jeremiah | :) | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | i meant May, which i'm starting to wonder if is too early for a release too | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | judging by the fact it's well, april | 22:12 |
| postmanPechkin | at the beginng of the may or at end? | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | true | 22:12 |
| postmanPechkin | *beginnnig | 22:12 |
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| jeremiah | It would be totally awesome if all the peices fell into place for a May release. | 22:13 |
| jeremiah | But it took till the last minute for Day one. | 22:13 |
| jeremiah | So I imagine MeeGo will need as much time as it can get | 22:13 |
| jeremiah | There is a lot to do, while a lot has actually been done. | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | anyway, my point about debian arm stability vs fedora arm stability.. if debian arm is more stable than fedora arm for instance, doesn't this mean that debian hasn't been doing their duty and upstreaming fixes? | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | because technically the arm support should be similar if using upstream :P | 22:15 |
| jeremiah | The logic doesn't follow. | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | sorry :P | 22:15 |
| * Stskeeps is tired | 22:16 | |
| jeremiah | If the distros _pull_ from upstream, then it is up to them to pull and make sure their support is complete. | 22:16 |
| jeremiah | If debian is more complete, then perhaps fedora hasn't been keeping up? | 22:16 |
| jeremiah | Plus, I suspect debian had more to start with | 22:16 |
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| Stskeeps | mm | 22:16 |
| lcuk | it depends where the patches are - you are both right | 22:16 |
| jeremiah | They are the 'universal' operating system that has been running on many arches for a while | 22:16 |
| jeremiah | I mean MeeGo won't run MIPS | 22:17 |
| jeremiah | But debian does | 22:17 |
| lcuk | kernel changes for arm should obviously be upstreamed | 22:17 |
| lcuk | then both get best | 22:17 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: Yeah, but debian doesn't make all those changes | 22:17 |
| lcuk | of course | 22:17 |
| jeremiah | Those changes come from places like, oh, TI | 22:17 |
| lcuk | then its down to individual apps | 22:17 |
| lcuk | and each has its own patch inclusion policies and trusted maintainers and stuff | 22:18 |
| jeremiah | No, it is more down to who maintains the kernel source in the distro | 22:18 |
| lcuk | so actually getting upstream for every patch from every os is difficult | 22:18 |
| jeremiah | And there is a reason why Linus uses debian! :p | 22:18 |
| lcuk | cos hes like the rest of us and lazy :p | 22:18 |
| jeremiah | heh. | 22:19 |
| jeremiah | Inded. | 22:19 |
| jeremiah | or indeed even | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | you know, sending patches upstream isn't just a matter of sending an email and it's done | 22:19 |
| lcuk | yeah ali1234 thats my point | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: [citation needed] on debian being his choice of distro :P | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | sometimes you have to really fight for it | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | sometimes you send it and hear nothing for months | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | sometimes it is easy | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: in 2001 it was RH and suse, in 2009 it was fedora.. | 22:21 |
| ali1234 | with git it should be easy to see who's kernel is closest to mainline, and who has not been sending their patches upstream | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090202 :P | 22:21 |
| kunguz | Hey guys, what is the localhost login and password for the MeeGo 1.0? | 22:22 |
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| Stskeeps | kunguz: root/meego | 22:23 |
| kunguz | thanks | 22:23 |
| kunguz | How do I open the Gui? | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | what gui? | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:24 |
| jeremiah | Can't find the quote, and my googling seems to indicate I'm mistaken | 22:24 |
| jeremiah | kunguz: There is no GUI | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough | 22:24 |
| kunguz | Stskeeps: ok :) | 22:24 |
| kunguz | Stskeeps: there will be a gui, right? | 22:25 |
| postmanPechkin | no, no | 22:25 |
| sykopomp | kunguz: nah, CLI is hardcore. | 22:25 |
| jeremiah | kunguz: Eventually. | 22:25 |
| sykopomp | no need for GUI | 22:25 |
| postmanPechkin | no need at all | 22:25 |
| kunguz | I guess you are no serious with your sayings? | 22:25 |
| sykopomp | no. I'm joking. | 22:25 |
| sykopomp | :P | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | a bit of sarcasm was detected, yes | 22:25 |
| kunguz | :P Nice one :D | 22:26 |
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| alden | lol @ no ui | 22:26 |
| kunguz | So here comes one last question: will there be a support for INTEL GMA 500 graphics accelerator? | 22:26 |
| jeremiah | ? | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | kunguz: i kinda hope they push out IEGD with meego 1.0 support / xserver 1.8 | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | kunguz: however, i managed to earlier boot xserver 1.6 on meego :P | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | with a iegd driver | 22:27 |
| kunguz | Even with IEGD on my sony vai what I got is a white screen fade in and fade out. | 22:28 |
| kunguz | Before I tried it with moblin | 22:28 |
| lcuk | kunguz, cool | 22:28 |
| lcuk | you installed a torch application | 22:28 |
| postmanPechkin | ) | 22:28 |
| lcuk | with fancy graphics by the sounds of it | 22:28 |
| kunguz | lcuk: unconciously yes a torch app :D | 22:29 |
| kunguz | I really wish Intel will release a more stable driver for this one | 22:30 |
| ali1234 | GMA500 actually has a SGX GPU just like the N900... and that is why there is no open driver for it | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | i don't care about no open driver, i care about being able to get one :P | 22:30 |
| ali1234 | well there is a crappy closed driver for GMA500 that doesn't work very well... | 22:30 |
| kunguz | Stskeeps: me, too. I can even accept a closed source one | 22:30 |
| kunguz | ali1234: how to download? and which distro supports it? | 22:31 |
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| ali1234 | kunguz: well some version of ubuntu supports it, because dell sells mini 12 with ubuntu on | 22:35 |
| jwhite | are there any mirrors for the repos? | 22:38 |
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| Maarak | are there any instructions for creating a bootable usb stick for an atom based netbook? | 22:39 |
| Maarak | didn't see any on the wiki or website | 22:40 |
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| tripzero | Maarak, use dd | 22:41 |
| Maarak | not sure what you mean by dd, direct download? | 22:42 |
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| tripzero | Maarak, are you using linux? | 22:42 |
| tripzero | dd is a command | 22:42 |
| Maarak | not right now, on my win7 box | 22:42 |
| tripzero | try UNetBootin | 22:42 |
| tripzero | i think it runs on the windows | 22:43 |
| Maarak | I've used that before with other distros | 22:43 |
| Maarak | should work fine | 22:43 |
| Maarak | just to make sure I'm downloading the right thing, from here http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/ it's the meego-preview-netbook-core-20100330-001.usbimg | 22:44 |
| tripzero | sire | 22:44 |
| Maarak | and just rename the file to .img? | 22:44 |
| tripzero | yep | 22:45 |
| Maarak | cool, thanks alot | 22:45 |
| Maarak | I ran moblin for a while on my netbook, how different is meego? | 22:45 |
| lcuk | why did you stop running it? | 22:47 |
| tripzero | Maarak, iirc, the img doesn't have a UI | 22:47 |
| Maarak | wanted something a little more robust | 22:48 |
| tripzero | so it'll be really different right now | 22:48 |
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| Maarak | lol, well I think I'll try it out, but think I'll wait for a UI to install | 22:48 |
| Maarak | running crunchpad linux on it currently | 22:48 |
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| alden | im struggling with some xorg.conf related issues | 22:59 |
| alden | i think it has to do with framebuffer but not sure | 22:59 |
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| alden | http://dpaste.com/178910/ and http://dpaste.com/178911/ | 22:59 |
| alden | are xorg log and xorg.conf respectively | 22:59 |
| alden | x starts up fine when xorg.conf is absent, ie. with built-in configuration | 23:00 |
| alden | but i need to configure it to get the mouse to work | 23:00 |
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| qgil_ | Loking at http://wiki.meego.com/Who%27s_who ... | 23:14 |
| qgil_ | is it only me seing a bit weird this "Maemo stakeholders" and "Nokia stakeholders"? | 23:14 |
| qgil_ | I mean "Moblin stakeholders" | 23:14 |
| qgil_ | "Official representatives of the Maemo community" | 23:15 |
| qgil_ | sounds like the Davos Summit | 23:15 |
| postmanPechkin | ) | 23:17 |
| postmanPechkin | so, who are those Officials? | 23:18 |
| qgil_ | I'm for keeping the MeeGo structure on top (based on announcements) = official roles | 23:18 |
| qgil_ | and then the rest of MeeGo community members by alphabetical sorting | 23:18 |
| qgil_ | currently there is many people with a factual role, still not announced officially... | 23:19 |
| qgil_ | ... but still I think it's good to keep the difference since official announcements need to come | 23:19 |
| qgil_ | otherwise any Nokia or Intel guy can be a suspect of having a MeeGo role, and this creates confusion | 23:20 |
| postmanPechkin | so, i will take nickname like 000000001, so i'll be the first)) | 23:20 |
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| qgil_ | postmanPechkin: if that makes you happy | 23:21 |
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| postmanPechkin | of course) | 23:22 |
| DawnFoster | qgil_: absolutely agree. It's a weird distinction. | 23:22 |
| DawnFoster | also, does that page scale as we grow? | 23:23 |
| DawnFoster | right now we have over 5000 members of meego.com | 23:23 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: surely not but there is nothing better by now - I have already linked at http://meego.com/community/members | 23:23 |
| DawnFoster | I think we keep it for now | 23:23 |
| DawnFoster | agreed. | 23:23 |
| qgil_ | DawnFoster: working on the page as we speak... | 23:24 |
| DawnFoster | I'm just thinking that we encourage people to update profiles or user pages on the wiki with more information as another way to learn about each other | 23:24 |
| postmanPechkin | are you from FBI? | 23:25 |
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| * mtnbkr hears crickets | 23:28 | |
| _Sky_ | No , they are 'just' the community coordinators :) | 23:28 |
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| postmanPechkin | cool, i want to be coordinated) | 23:30 |
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| DawnFoster | how do you know that we aren't also from the FBI (double agents) :) | 23:32 |
| zeos | has anyone gone from moblin to this new release yet? | 23:32 |
| postmanPechkin | i am from ÃÐÓ | 23:32 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, why would people from FaceBook Investigations care about meego :p | 23:33 |
| w00t_ | speaking of facebook.. | 23:33 |
| w00t_ | does anyone have any idea where libsocialweb's source went? | 23:34 |
| postmanPechkin | it's much ruthless thing) | 23:34 |
| w00t_ | DawnFoster: ^^? since it was a moblin component, perhaps you know someone who might know | 23:34 |
| DawnFoster | w00t_ hmmm, not sure. I wasn't really involved in Moblin. | 23:35 |
| w00t_ | sigh | 23:36 |
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| DawnFoster | and it's Friday afternoon here in the US, so not sure how many people are still around to find out. | 23:36 |
| w00t_ | it appears to have vanished off git.moblin.org, and I really want a copy to toy with :( | 23:36 |
| w00t_ | but thanks anyway | 23:36 |
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| lcuk | :( bitrot | 23:36 |
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| th0br0 | good evening everyone. | 23:38 |
| DawnFoster | evening th0br0 | 23:38 |
| _Sky_ | it might be a little bit to early but i ask myself how you solve the problem with different screen resolutions, because meebo is a netbook AND a handheld os. What do i have to do as developer to make my qt gui application fit and look nice on both of them ? | 23:38 |
| postmanPechkin | good evening | 23:38 |
| _Sky_ | *meego | 23:38 |
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| _Sky_ | do i have to make 2 gui's or should i better work with sizers and scale everything ? | 23:40 |
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| lcuk | as a designer the resolution can vary wildly on the same device: 1024 * 758 or 768 * 1024 is a simple example | 23:40 |
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| lcuk | 768 * | 23:40 |
| th0br0 | uh, where is that qemu image i saw mentioned on the ml? | 23:41 |
| _Sky_ | if you turn the device , you mean ? | 23:42 |
| lcuk | _Sky_, different apps have different requirements, some like simple scaling, others are more complex and require different ui totally | 23:42 |
| lcuk | yes | 23:42 |
| _Sky_ | ok thats a good answer :) i'll keep that in mind | 23:43 |
| odin_ | are we a happy community ? | 23:44 |
| * _Sky_ is very happy | 23:44 | |
| postmanPechkin | yes) | 23:44 |
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| qgil_ | DawnFoster: http://wiki.meego.com/Who's_who | 23:49 |
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| DawnFoster | looks much better! | 23:50 |
| DawnFoster | it's easier to find people | 23:50 |
| lbt | be nice if the people links/profiles had more info or links to the wiki Users: pages | 23:51 |
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| _Sky_ | what do i need to do to get into the other community members list :D | 23:52 |
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| DawnFoster | I wonder if we should break out maintainers / people with commit access as soon as we actually have that info. | 23:52 |
| lbt | why? | 23:52 |
| th0br0 | DawnFoster: without any order or structure? | 23:52 |
| DawnFoster | it will help people know who is in charge of which project elements. | 23:52 |
| lbt | are they more important than wiki editors? | 23:52 |
| lbt | or bugzilla reporters... :) | 23:53 |
| lbt | if you need that info you can look in the package details | 23:53 |
| postmanPechkin | more | 23:53 |
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| lbt | wb jebba ;) | 23:53 |
| jebba | can you charge the battery on N900 and meego? hey lbt | 23:54 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: true, but I was thinking that it would give a little more transparency into the people responsible for the code | 23:54 |
| qgil_ | lbt: I will star putting avatar and more infor in my profile :) | 23:54 |
| lcuk | qgil_, shouldnt all the lists be alphabetic? | 23:54 |
| lbt | qgil_: http://wiki.meego.com/User:Lbt | 23:54 |
| qgil_ | lcuk: go ahead, I got a bit tired copying moving pasting :) | 23:54 |
| lcuk | i never got beyond having to resign in the stuff | 23:55 |
| DawnFoster | I agree with lcuk about all lists being alphabetical | 23:55 |
| lcuk | page does look cleaner tho | 23:55 |
| _Sky_ | lbt: nice linux devices list :D | 23:55 |
| lbt | jebba: there's a fully OSS image and that has no power mgmt | 23:55 |
| jebba | ok thx | 23:55 |
| qgil_ | lbt: at least you should link that from http://meego.com/users/lbt :) | 23:56 |
| lbt | there's one with BME and that does iirc | 23:56 |
| lbt | qgil_: ah, I wasn't logged in - that's why it was so blank - d'oh | 23:56 |
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| qgil_ | The MeeGo part is sorted alphabetically by surname... then I realized it was by name in the long list | 23:56 |
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| th0br0 | (soo, again: where is that qemu image to be found that is mentioned on the mailing list?) | 23:58 |
| th0br0 | "meego_qemu_nand.img" apparently | 23:58 |
| th0br0 | oh nvm. | 23:58 |
| th0br0 | forget that silly question | 23:59 |
| lbt | th0br0 found google :) | 23:59 |
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| th0br0 | well, it's actually no longer on the page; but given that it's required for actually building meego, it's not really what i was looking for | 23:59 |
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