| kerio | and you're sure that you disabled the domain check in HAM's settings? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| warfare | Ok, now I only enabled cssu-thumb and extras. | 00:01 |
| kerio | no, you need cssu-testing too | 00:01 |
| kerio | i swear | 00:01 |
| kerio | (and you don't need extras) | 00:01 |
| kerio | (so perhaps you could disable it so that HAM is a bit faster because it won't have to wait for the RMO timeout) | 00:02 |
| warfare | I already disabled all rmo repos and added the mirrors. | 00:02 |
| kerio | k | 00:02 |
| kerio | hm, there's a Log in HAM | 00:03 |
| kerio | in the menu | 00:03 |
| kerio | can you pastebin it? | 00:03 |
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| warfare | just a moment. | 00:06 |
| warfare | http://pastebin.com/esGDmJej | 00:11 |
| warfare | I changed cssu-testing repos (from merlin1991's mirror to skeiron.org) and now I'm only missing libidn11 | 00:12 |
| kerio | warfare: instead of that repo, use http://community-testing.merlin1991.at/ fremantle free non-free | 00:14 |
| warfare | .oO( every non-hacker person would have thrown the device out of the window by now ;) | 00:18 |
| kerio | non-hackers won't buy a n900 | 00:19 |
| Raimu | Pretty much that. | 00:19 |
| warfare | Also that. | 00:19 |
| kerio | non-hackers won't install cssu-thumb now | 00:19 |
| kerio | they'll wait | 00:19 |
| kerio | non-hackers won't install cssu-thumb | 00:19 |
| kerio | non-hackers should READ THE fine MANUAL | 00:20 |
| warfare | Thats what hackers read after they broke something. At least I do. | 00:21 |
| Raimu | Although to be honest I consider myself less a hacker and more an enlightened power user. | 00:21 |
| warfare | You were willing to spend $$$ on a phone with a complete unix environment. Thats no longer power user ;) | 00:22 |
| chem|st | warfare: people pay $$$ for iphones... they arent even worth the word user | 00:23 |
| kerio | i spent $$$ on it | 00:25 |
| kerio | and then it broke | 00:25 |
| kerio | and then i spent $ for another one | 00:25 |
| warfare | ;) | 00:25 |
| kerio | (and yes, that's in scale) | 00:25 |
| warfare | chem|st: depends, I like my iPhone in so far as it just works (most of the time) and I can live with the limitations. Same goes for my MacBook. But most other devices here are running linux (including the htpc and the dvr in the basement) | 00:27 |
| chem|st | warfare: I cannot live with it so everything is running *x system... my coffeemachine my TV my desktop my tablet my two phones my landline-phone my netbook... | 00:28 |
| warfare | I'd like to see the coffeemachine, please ;) | 00:29 |
| chem|st | collegue asking, oh is it android or windows... neither nor... | 00:29 |
| chem|st | warfare: it is an old saeco | 00:29 |
| chem|st | all coffeemachines I know run some linux based firmware, even my 10 year old sony has a linux kernel | 00:30 |
| kerio | warfare: well, hopefully now that you have a n900 you'll realize how wrong you were | 00:30 |
| * kerio is not smug at all | 00:31 | |
| warfare | kerio: I still have my n810 ;) | 00:31 |
| warfare | *grah* libidn11 is hiding in extras-devel | 00:33 |
| warfare | So, extras-devel is required for cssu-thumb. | 00:36 |
| kerio | huh | 00:38 |
| kerio | freemangordon: did you know about this? | 00:38 |
| kerio | warfare: my, do we have a repository for YOU sir | 00:39 |
| kerio | warfare: http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/ fremantle free non-free | 00:39 |
| warfare | ;) | 00:39 |
| freemangordon | kerio: yes, and it comes with -testing i guess | 00:39 |
| warfare | Already enabled that. | 00:39 |
| kerio | yay | 00:39 |
| freemangordon | i suspect libcurl, but not sure | 00:39 |
| kerio | the hostname ones are different from the apt-mirror ones | 00:39 |
| kerio | they're better, in fact :) | 00:39 |
| warfare | freemangordon: yep, its libcurl and friends. | 00:40 |
| freemangordon | will pester luf when he appears :) | 00:40 |
| kerio | warfare: just be a man and keep extras-devel enabled | 00:40 |
| kerio | the light version is lighter on HAM too | 00:40 |
| warfare | and still has a 14M Packages file ;) | 00:43 |
| kerio | wat | 00:43 |
| kerio | no way | 00:43 |
| warfare | Ok, regular extras-devel has 25.6M | 00:43 |
| warfare | unpacked. | 00:44 |
| kerio | ...oh, you have no bzip2 installed, right | 00:44 |
| kerio | merlin1991: please also add Packages.gz | 00:44 |
| kerio | for our stocky friends | 00:44 |
| warfare | .gz's are there. | 00:44 |
| kerio | hm? | 00:44 |
| kerio | i see | 00:45 |
| kerio | the "light" repos are due to the fact that repository.maemo.org is stupid, and keeps every version of every package ever built | 00:45 |
| kerio | and have no pdiffs | 00:47 |
| warfare | looks like it is installing \o/ | 00:52 |
| kerio | \o/ | 00:55 |
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| warfare | update successful, device booted normally after the update. all is good. | 01:10 |
| warfare | kerio: thanks for your time! | 01:10 |
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| merlin1991 | hm I should just disable the generic apt-mirror mirror, because the hash issues are there anyway | 02:03 |
| Pali | merlin1991, look at sudo in log | 02:13 |
| jonwil | damn wiki is still down :( | 02:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | YAAAAAWN! | 06:26 |
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| kerio | warfare: btw, now that you have cssu-thumb installed you have to be careful, don't flash kernels without the thumb2 errata fix | 08:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | what's that fuss about that "official mail" from $maemo-entity to $nokia? All Akuma said been " i could use a nice mail which describes the process in its entirety to the mail chain that's been going under the desk." | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>your clerk has retired, so nobody can sign the bank checks for paying your employees anymore. Nobody? Nah, the Big Boss can sign the next bunch of papers to the bank, consisting of the checks for January, plus a new reference card that authorizes the new clerk" | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | << | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since Big Boss has an all-time reference card at the bank, to authorize everything | 08:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is there any danger in the Big Boss signing those January checks and the new clerk's reference card? Not at all. | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Q: so what's the downside then? A: it looks a tad strange when the Big Boss signs checks, and you have to pester the Big Boss to do it. That's all | 09:01 |
| kerio | brilliant explanation | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now s/BigBoss/master-key/ | 09:01 |
| kerio | it seems that we're mocking them, though | 09:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: particularly an explanation that non-technophiles with a catch at business can understand instantly | 09:02 |
| kerio | the nokia repos are static, anyway | 09:04 |
| kerio | so they won't really need to do more than one or two signature | 09:04 |
| kerio | (say, if we get to make them add something for cssu) | 09:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | according to you brilliant guys and your analysis it only needs to sign that one master file | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we / Nokia can ship a key5.1 that expires 2029 | 09:07 |
| kerio | for each change in the repo, yes | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, with first change | 09:07 |
| kerio | heh, you'd need *everyone* to switch, though | 09:07 |
| kerio | not everyone has a permanent internet connection | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err wut? | 09:07 |
| kerio | you sign the whole repo at once | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're signing next change that comprises of $whatever plus key5.1 with masterkey. This will linger around until probably forever. if at T:forever+7years there actually will come a new piece in repo, we can assume everybody updated to key5.1 by then and thus sign next repo "version" with normal 5.1 key | 09:09 |
| kerio | yes, yes | 09:10 |
| kerio | i meant recent changes, but ok | 09:10 |
| kerio | and yeah, nokia is never going to do anything to that repo | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so we need masterkey just one single time: to propagate the key5.1 | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't care if one file or all files of this repo revision that ships key5.1 have to get signed with masterkey | 09:14 |
| kerio | yeah, yeah | 09:14 |
| kerio | i wonder what's the best place to put it, now | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a busybox binary signed with masterkey is no more powerful than a usually signed one | 09:15 |
| kerio | possibly maemointernal-keyring | 09:15 |
| kerio | users without a metapackage are going to be boned, though | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, Nokia has to place key5.1 exactly into same package that so fare shipped 1.1, 2.1, 3.1, and 4.1 | 09:16 |
| kerio | that would be HAM | 09:17 |
| kerio | will cssu align to that change? | 09:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not HAM, see Pali's fine mail | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gpg key for n900 repositories is stored in these packages: | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hildon-application-manager-settings-standard | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hildon-application-manager-settings-002 | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hildon-application-manager-settings-003 | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ... | 09:20 |
| kerio | neat | 09:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how should CSSU aling to anything here? | 09:21 |
| kerio | add the new version to the metapackage | 09:22 |
| kerio | and that's it | 09:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're aware that CSSU is *on top* of Nokia-ssu repos? | 09:22 |
| kerio | are *you* aware that non-user packages aren't upgraded by ham except via the metapackage? | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so any update to nokia repos will automatically propagate to CSSU (unless package been overridden by a CSSU replacement) | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, so what? get a new metapackage then | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which makes this PR1.3.2 | 09:24 |
| kerio | yeah, that's for people with the standard metapackage | 09:26 |
| kerio | but both merl and chem will have to update their metapackage | 09:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ??? | 09:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uh | 09:28 |
| kerio | before T:forever+7years | 09:28 |
| kerio | :) | 09:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | was abo to goo whats merl or chem | 09:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right | 09:28 |
| kerio | the maintainers of cssu-stab and cssu-test, of course | 09:29 |
| kerio | er, wrong way around | 09:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually nope, maintainers of T are moh and merlin1991, maintainers of S are chem|st and merlin1991 | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it seems we'll need another maintainer to replace moh, so merlin1991 can get a bit of support with T so he can give more support to chem|st who recently gathered more on his plate with tmo | 09:31 |
| kerio | the choice is obvious | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kinda, though everybody already is fed up with work to do | 09:32 |
| kerio | (we're talking about fmg, right?) | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who already even outright rejected, iirc | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pali's plate is filled too | 09:34 |
| kerio | :c | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's always the same problem: those who are willing and competent to do something, already do something. If the rare case happens and you find a volunteer that has no filled time schedule, you hardly find any reference work he did so you could estimate his competence | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only chance usually: find inter-disciplinary aka crossover guys, that's how chemist got to distro maintenance. I knew he's a competent guy and willing to learn about packaging and stuff | 09:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and distro maintenance fits pretty good with a moderator's mindset | 09:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I almost don't dare to check, guess we're down on [^t].m.o, probably for the whole weekend, uh? | 09:51 |
| kerio | seems like it | 09:53 |
| kerio | do the guys in #nemein know about this? | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol, yeah, they *should* know about it already | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | question is if they actually do, and if they can find any 5 min to do something about it | 09:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Eero:>> ah crap... I need to fly to stockholm tomorrow morning, I have *not* prepared at all...<< | 09:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so anybody's guess when, and if... | 09:58 |
| kerio | in-flight wifi? | 10:02 |
| * kerio is hopeful | 10:02 | |
| ShadowX | DocScrutinizer05, maybe adding sticky thread with list of tasks CSSU wants to accomplishe (and keeping it updated) may help you find out ppl witch have skills and time and can be usefull. | 10:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowX: the idea is not all that bad | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think somebody already started something similar, to find GTK coders | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the results where thin, at best | 10:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for distro maintainers even more the rule applies: if somebody *wants* to do it, don't trust him! | 10:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maintaining a distro is not exactly fun, except when you abuse your power | 10:06 |
| ShadowX | so ubuntu guys are having lots of fun :D | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 10:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess maintaining a distro can be quite satisfying when you got used to it and know your ways around | 10:08 |
| ShadowX | Yes, i agree... maybe Patrick Volkerding is the best example | 10:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but those who volunteer for maintaining are usually eager to make their own special ideas of how a distro should look come true | 10:09 |
| ShadowX | witch again brings me to my first and last love - slackware. I strongly belive that there always shoud be 1 person ontop off all. | 10:10 |
| ShadowX | that way you know where the project is going now , and where it will be going in 2-3 years. | 10:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 10:10 |
| ShadowX | if you like it - yo do , if you don't - you have alternatives. | 10:10 |
| ShadowX | that's why the kernel project is so successful | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I'm extremely happy with our two guys here, which have a sane understanding about the meaning of maintenance | 10:11 |
| ShadowX | mainly 'cose of Linus , not so much as programmer but as head of it all | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but we need an assistant for merlin1991, for T | 10:12 |
| ShadowX | btw i'm not really familiar with the hierarchy in here....who are the two guys? | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991 and chem|st | 10:13 |
| ShadowX | T = cssu-testing , right? | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 10:13 |
| ShadowX | and when you say assist , you mean with ? coding, right? | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maintenance | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | has basically nothing in common with coding | 10:14 |
| ShadowX | well..this should not be so hard .... finding coders with free time ...maybe , but mainteance ... | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as already mentioned, maintenance is no instant fun | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | most maintainers also do some coding since otherwise they couldn't stand it | 10:16 |
| ShadowX | yep i kind of know ...i've help out with some projects like that. | 10:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | coders tend to think they can do maintenance and sysop as a natural side effect of their talents. That's usually a misconception | 10:17 |
| ShadowX | +1 | 10:18 |
| ShadowX | coders are good ppl, but most of the time , they don't see the big picture , their view is limited to their software | 10:18 |
| ShadowX | btw i say that with great respect to all coders. | 10:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I agree with same respect | 10:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to coders as well as maintainers, and particularly good sysops | 10:19 |
| ShadowX | Can you give me more information about what merlin1991 needs assits to , or it's better to ask him when he's here? | 10:23 |
| kerio | he's always here | 10:26 |
| kerio | he's probably asleep | 10:26 |
| kerio | it's 9.26 on a saturday | 10:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowX: we need a distro maintainer that builds update releases from all the packages that been discussed and reviewed and validated | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it includes knowing about repositories and how they work, what's a metapackage, building packages and keeping track of revisions... stuff like that | 10:53 |
| freemangordon | not that it is rocket science :) | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mah, it's mostly boring stuff | 10:54 |
| freemangordon | but it is time-consuming for sure | 10:54 |
| kerio | moin | 10:54 |
| freemangordon | yeah, boting too | 10:54 |
| freemangordon | morning | 10:55 |
| freemangordon | *boring | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what we'd need urgently is somebody doing a POC implementation of an alternative-optional package | 10:57 |
| freemangordon | for stable? | 10:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for testing for now | 10:58 |
| kerio | freemangordon: will HAM honour provides/conflicts/replaces? | 10:58 |
| freemangordon | yes. afaik | 10:58 |
| freemangordon | yes | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, for conflicts I'm not all that sure | 10:59 |
| freemangordon | kerio: see your nokia kernel uninstalled | 10:59 |
| kerio | freemangordon: even for user packages? | 10:59 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I guess so | 10:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think it blows chunks and whines about 2use PCsuite!!" | 10:59 |
| kerio | and packages that are depended upon by the mp | 10:59 |
| kerio | for instance | 10:59 |
| kerio | stable has the stock camera-ui | 10:59 |
| freemangordon | I know | 11:00 |
| kerio | we add a camera-ui-nicocam package that provides, conflicts and replaces camera-ui | 11:00 |
| kerio | and the metapackage will depend on camera-ui (>= whatever the current version) | camera-ui-nicocam (>= optional version) | 11:00 |
| freemangordon | it'll replace and uninstall stock one of one choose to install it | 11:00 |
| kerio | there will be no way to uninstall it, though | 11:00 |
| kerio | not easily, at least | 11:01 |
| freemangordon | that is what has happened with kernel in -thumb | 11:01 |
| kerio | freemangordon: kernel-cssu isn't a user package | 11:01 |
| freemangordon | it is | 11:01 |
| kerio | :o | 11:01 |
| freemangordon | the same as kernel-power | 11:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the whole point why we need patch HAM | 11:01 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: why, it works as of now | 11:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik you can't kick out one conficting pkg by installing the alternative | 11:02 |
| freemangordon | we can provide an additional repo with metapackages depending on stock packages | 11:02 |
| freemangordon | i.e... | 11:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: we already have a complete and reviewed concept how to implement it | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~i.e. | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf ie | 11:03 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what ie means... | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | In Expression | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you mean eg? | 11:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | example given | 11:04 |
| freemangordon | http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/e.g.html | 11:04 |
| freemangordon | however, make -mp depend on (nicocam | stock-mp) | 11:05 |
| freemangordon | make both conflicts/replaces each-other | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, thanks for the link, saves me long writing | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal ie | 11:06 |
| infobot | "ie" is "the domain suffix for Ireland, or Internet Explorer, or the browser of the Devil, or the worst browser in the entire universe and it should be eliminated by any means possible, or the spawn of evil, nay all evil spawns from ie" | 11:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal i.e. | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~i.e. is http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/e.g.html | 11:07 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~e.g. is <reply>see i.e. | 11:07 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 | 11:07 |
| freemangordon | install the second repo disabled in ham. if user wants to install the replacement, he should enable the repo and install only the application he wants. though we need to check if that will work :) | 11:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and we need one repo per alternative app ;-P | 11:08 |
| freemangordon | no, only one will do the job | 11:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sound a tiny bit... err cough | 11:09 |
| freemangordon | you won't have updates in HAM, as there are already correct versions installed. At least that is what I think :) | 11:09 |
| freemangordon | maybe gregoa can confirm/not | 11:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, see http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/meetings/2012-05-14.txt | 11:11 |
| kerio | freemangordon: another question: will HAM replace a package from a domain with a package from a lower domain? | 11:11 |
| freemangordon | the only problem I see, is that if the user leave the repo enabled, HAM might decide to install stuff from it with the next -mp | 11:11 |
| freemangordon | kerio: NFC | 11:11 |
| kerio | freemangordon: you can't provide a specific version, anyway | 11:12 |
| kerio | so the metapackage would have to list all the alternatives | 11:12 |
| freemangordon | hmm? | 11:12 |
| kerio | and do that in order | 11:12 |
| freemangordon | kerio: unfortunately HAM seems to respect the alphabet :D | 11:12 |
| kerio | then why doesn't it try to install kernel-cssu if i have kernel-power? | 11:12 |
| freemangordon | we've been hit by that, kernel-feature-errata-... shit | 11:13 |
| kerio | oh, it won't explicitly try to install it if it's already fulfilled | 11:13 |
| kerio | i see | 11:13 |
| freemangordon | because you have it already installed | 11:13 |
| freemangordon | but if you don;t have, HAM will choose to install the first one sorted in alphabetical order | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly guys, where you've been 2012-05-14? | 11:14 |
| kerio | i was distracted | 11:15 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I don;t see anyone fixing HAM since 2012-05-14 ;) | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 11:15 |
| kerio | i think the current plan is to do nothing until Pali decides to do it, and then bitch at his solution for being suboptimal | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you think starting all over with a more weird concept is the solution to that? | 11:15 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: without fixed HAM the solution won;t fly | 11:16 |
| freemangordon | I am trying to figure out an alternative which "might" work if HAM remains how it is of now | 11:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: honesty, don't get me started! It's YOU guxs who bitch about HAM all the time, but when it comes to implementing a POC *PACKAGE* that would work *perfectly* with your beloved and preferred apt-get, you resort to "But HAM doesn't support it without patches! booohooohooo whaaaahaaa!" | 11:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | enabling and disabling repos! honestly! you must be kidding me | 11:19 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I am fine with the original concept, just don;t see it happening | 11:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since YOU, the CODERS are shy to touch HAM | 11:20 |
| freemangordon | could be :) | 11:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway original concept works even *without* HAM, your switching repos I don't see | 11:21 |
| freemangordon | but iirc we, THE CODERS, have been working on more important stuff. And there is a lot of work on more important stuff pending ;) | 11:22 |
| kerio | i'm not entirely sure this optional stuff concept would work, with the metapackage | 11:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then please spare me from your alternative repo idea | 11:23 |
| freemangordon | that is why changing HAM to fit "the freedom of choice" will not happen any time soon AIUI. BTW it was who that promised to do it? | 11:23 |
| freemangordon | kerio: could be | 11:24 |
| kerio | freemangordon: look at what you had to do with cssu-thumb and the kernel, and that's just one package | 11:24 |
| kerio | gregoa: how does apt decide which candidate to install for a virtual package? | 11:25 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I know, though I was not aware of that idiocy (alphabetical order). BTW I am not sure if it is HAM or apt | 11:25 |
| freemangordon | kerio: I think we already discussed that and the result was "randomly" :D | 11:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowX: so now you got an idea about the job of a maintainer | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 11:29 |
| freemangordon | :D | 11:29 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: can't we get rid of metapackages? | 11:32 |
| kerio | HAM already has some primitive support for "update all packages, even the non-user ones" | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd *love* to get rid of that shit, but somehow we seem to need it, dunno why | 11:32 |
| kerio | because HAM won't update non-user package | 11:32 |
| freemangordon | we'll lose control on what's installed | 11:33 |
| kerio | freemangordon: why? | 11:33 |
| kerio | also, why did my phone disconnect from wifi? | 11:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the plan, freemangordon, that's exactly the plan | 11:33 |
| freemangordon | just a gut feeling | 11:33 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: +1 | 11:34 |
| freemangordon | and what will be the gain? | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | guess ;-) | 11:34 |
| kerio | freemangordon: we can upgrade single packages | 11:34 |
| kerio | and we can install alternatives easily | 11:34 |
| freemangordon | -mp does not stop you from doing both | 11:35 |
| kerio | hell, eventually i reckon that most of the packages can be made userly | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I bet when I say it once more, you start head-desking | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's always the same: users' freedom of joice | 11:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | choice* | 11:35 |
| kerio | freemangordon: then why did i have to make a fake package for busybox-symlinks-procps to keep the metapackage installed? | 11:35 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: don't say it, I still have threads in my skin on the head :D | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MP is a lame excuse to go sloppy on proper comprehensive dependencies | 11:36 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: the dependencies are actually kinda fine, i think | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | invented by nokia on the premise that they always roll out complete PRs | 11:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we might be able to shrink MP to bare bones minimum, like discussing if HD is in or out | 11:38 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: think about maemo-extras too | 11:39 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: there's only things we control in the metapackage, anyway | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | handle the rest as mere user packages: you want a phone/dialer? install it! | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | camera? fine, which one? | 11:40 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i kinda hate to say this, but ubuntu's separate package manage for dummies/proper package manager for power users thing is a good idea | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's not exactly an ubuntu invention | 11:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yast has similar and better concepts since ages | 11:41 |
| kerio | yeah but nobody uses suse | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | package groups, machine types etc | 11:41 |
| * kerio flees | 11:41 | |
| freemangordon | can we backport ubuntu sw center? | 11:41 |
| kerio | freemangordon: don't be silly | 11:41 |
| freemangordon | why, you search on amazon too :P | 11:42 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: really though, the package manager is no excuse | 11:43 |
| kerio | apt is used in tons of wildly different distributions | 11:44 |
| kerio | and they don't seem to have problems with it | 11:44 |
| freemangordon | kerio: apt in fremantle is hevily modified by Nokia aiui | 11:44 |
| freemangordon | *heavily | 11:44 |
| kerio | huh? to do what? | 11:44 |
| freemangordon | use hardcoded user/password for example :D | 11:46 |
| kerio | ? | 11:46 |
| kerio | /etc/apt/auth | 11:46 |
| freemangordon | ask pali | 11:46 |
| freemangordon | no, in the code | 11:47 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what was that old-movie character which name was hardcoded as username in apt? | 11:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Joshua? | 11:48 |
| freemangordon | *who | 11:48 |
| freemangordon | yep | 11:48 |
| freemangordon | kerio: ^^^ | 11:48 |
| freemangordon | kerio: google for "maemo apt jushua" | 11:50 |
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| kerio | yeah, yeah | 11:50 |
| kerio | but it's not used i think | 11:50 |
| kerio | and more recent apt versions have /etc/apt/auth.conf to do that automatically | 11:50 |
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| kerio | Pali: omg new battery applet | 12:11 |
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| kerio | Pali: btw, what does libbmeipc report to dsme and pulseaudio regarding temperature, if rx51_battery isn't loaded? the last value? | 12:14 |
| Pali | kerio, I do not remember look at gitorious source code | 12:14 |
| Pali | dsme not using libbmeipc I patched termal plugin to use rx51_battery directly | 12:15 |
| kerio | -1 temperature | 12:16 |
| kerio | i hope that dsme won't mind | 12:16 |
| kerio | oh, it won't mind | 12:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? what got battery temperature to do with battery charge level? | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MEH | 13:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind | 13:15 |
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| merlin1991 | hm gotta love http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2013-01-26.log.html#t2013-01-26T10:26:40 | 16:41 |
| * ShadowX pokes merlin1991 | 16:55 | |
| ShadowX | Hi there :) | 16:55 |
| * merlin1991 pokes back | 16:55 | |
| ShadowX | DocScrutinizer05, I took my time to read the log, so being a maintainer is pretty much like my day job ... play around with linux , compiling stuff , and arguing with developers about why they shoud not do a thing the way they what to do it :D (the last is a joke) | 16:58 |
| ShadowX | merlin1991, i hear you may use some help ? | 16:58 |
| merlin1991 | well as long as the infra is down I can't do anything anyway :D | 16:59 |
| ShadowX | yeah...about that .. any clues about the repos ? how are thing with them going . | 17:00 |
| merlin1991 | nfc | 17:01 |
| ShadowX | i mean except the info in the forum :) | 17:01 |
| merlin1991 | they live @nemain xen-grid and that one sucks | 17:01 |
| merlin1991 | the firewall keeps going down | 17:01 |
| ShadowX | let me guess it has layer7 filtering? :) | 17:01 |
| merlin1991 | I have no idea | 17:02 |
| ShadowX | pretty much the only thing to bring down a fw to his kness (except DoS ofc) | 17:02 |
| ShadowX | or config error :) but i doubt that's the issue here. | 17:02 |
| merlin1991 | but yeah since it does traffic shaping and stuff, it probably does layer7 filtering | 17:03 |
| ShadowX | you don't need l7 filtering for traffic shaping. | 17:03 |
| merlin1991 | it seems to be a do it all setup | 17:04 |
| merlin1991 | I do realize you can do traffic shaping on a lower level :D | 17:04 |
| ShadowX | fw is lnx based? | 17:05 |
| merlin1991 | it some linux solution afaik "endian" | 17:06 |
| merlin1991 | and 40k n900s seem to bring it to its knees | 17:06 |
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| ShadowX | isnt it possible to bypass the fw for few days? and maybe add connection limit to the repos server so the n900s don't DoS it? | 17:15 |
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| merlin1991 | ShadowX: it's not in our hands anyway | 17:16 |
| merlin1991 | it's nemains game for the time being | 17:17 |
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| kerio | ShadowX: well, as soon as the dns records were changed, we *did* have a DoS | 18:00 |
| kerio | akamai decided to redownload *everything* on repository.maemo.org | 18:00 |
| kerio | because of a configuration problem | 18:00 |
| kerio | that was fun :D | 18:01 |
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| ShadowX | a friend of mine likes to say: "If it start working perfectly from the first try, something is deeply wrong with it" :) | 19:11 |
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| ShadowX | btw, just a suggestion, maybe for the next time ...but I think it will be easyer for users if the temporary repos have the same structure and virtal hosts as the original repos. this way the user will only need to add temporary line to /etc/hosts file to trick HAM/FAM to use the tmp repo.. | 19:21 |
| Sicelo | which 'next time'? :P | 19:23 |
| ShadowX | you never know :) | 19:24 |
| ShadowX | i hope that maemo and the community will leave long :D so ... | 19:24 |
| ShadowX | s/leave/live/ | 19:27 |
| infobot | ShadowX meant: i hope that maemo and the community will live long :D so ... | 19:27 |
| ShadowX | sry for my "perfect" Inglish :D | 19:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowX: good advice | 21:15 |
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| kerio | do we have a scratchbox mirror? | 22:18 |
| arcean_ | kerio: ftp://mirror.lzu.edu.cn/software/embedded/scratchbox.org/ | 22:21 |
| arcean_ | there're also files for fremantle | 22:22 |
| kerio | what about the vmdk images? | 22:22 |
| kerio | those were on garage iirc | 22:22 |
| arcean_ | i have no idea | 22:22 |
| arcean_ | for sure I have one of those images somewhere on hdd | 22:23 |
| arcean_ | kerio: http://skeiron.org/maemo_dev_env_downloads/ | 22:25 |
| kerio | yay ^_^ | 22:25 |
| kerio | ...oh, and i realized i actually had it on my hd already | 22:25 |
| arcean_ | :D | 22:25 |
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| chem|st | tmo down for maintenance back at 9pm | 22:30 |
| kerio | oh noes, how will we manage | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | heh, what happened to it? | 22:32 |
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| kerio | Pali: not sure if you're interested, but i fixed rootsh's packaging | 23:45 |
| kerio | now it uses debhelper 5 and has no weird shit going on with postinst | 23:45 |
| Pali | kerio, I have fixed some of rootsh packaging in my hdd | 23:46 |
| Pali | but send me your version | 23:46 |
| Pali | I will merge them | 23:46 |
| Pali | I'm sure that in rootsh are more problems... | 23:46 |
| kerio | https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1405219/rootsh_2.0.tar.gz | 23:46 |
| kerio | i basically copied community-ssu-enabler | 23:46 |
| kerio | preinst and postrm are taken from appendix G of the debian maintainer guide | 23:48 |
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