| DocScrutinizer05 | (([2014-08-21 Thu 22:02:04] <chem|st> I expect GeneralAntilles to join the e.V. as soon as I have the forms, and he was one person we could get Doc to agree to)) what the F**K are you talking about? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | to start with, you don't need my agreement when claiming brand ownership of "maemo" at freenode | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2nd you seem to still not groc the concept of GC, which is the one point of contact between freenode staff and a brand owner like Nokia or HiFo | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | grok, even | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3rd, once you own the "maemo" brand and thus namespace, you don't need xfade anymore, you simply claim that namespace at freenode staff. I discussed all this with freenode already, and sent the results and my suggestions to HiFo | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not forgetting to also elaborate about what can get done *until* you eventually own "maemo" brand | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on "grok GC concept": the brand owner is free to appoint whomever they like, for GC. Regularly the owners don't take that duty on themselves, see x-fade who even never been a regular Nokia employee aiui. Thus I suggested to pick GC on more practical considerations: ideally should be chanop already, a close affiliation to techstaff would also make some sense | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and recently *council* decided to take interim action until HiFo or whoever can sort this stuff for good: ask x-fade to appoint *CO*-GCs which he's free to do any time | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since we are not interested in your ownership cncerns, we want stuff to *work*, and for that co-GC riole and permissions are completely sufficient | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and many thanks for your concerns about warfare's workload, but I guess it's him and techstaff and council to discuss that | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no need for you to take care about that and blame council/me for anything | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | technically GeneralAntilles, me and warfare are the natural choices for co-GC. GeneralAntilles would probably be a fine choice for primary GC, but so is warfare OR me - mind you there's only ONE (primary) GC and he should be an IRC-savvy, ideally chanop as well | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically GC is for IRC what I been for server maintenance before you bullied me out based on your lack of understanding of my role | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as well as your lack of knowledge about the agreement between me and HiFo about that role | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you expose same lack of understanding of the concept now with GC | 00:21 |
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| peterleinchen_ | whois peterleinchen_ | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | peterleinchen_: If *you* don't know... ;-) | 22:59 |
| peterleinchen_ | :) | 22:59 |
| peterleinchen_ | Hey. Anybody else listening? | 23:00 |
| RzR | Tue Aug 26 22:00:26 CEST 2014 | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi everybody! Excuse my grumpiness, today it got a reason: headache | 23:00 |
| RzR | excuses accepted | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 23:01 |
| RzR | you can be as grumpy you want | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 23:02 |
| RzR | juiceme: still afk ? | 23:02 |
| juiceme | hiya o/ | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ | 23:03 |
| juiceme | DocScrutinizer05, hope you're healing | 23:03 |
| juiceme | RzR, hiya | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hoping for the ibuprofen to kick in | 23:03 |
| juiceme | peterleinchen_, hi! | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks"! | 23:04 |
| peterleinchen_ | Hiya. | 23:04 |
| peterleinchen_ | ibu is the BEST! | 23:04 |
| juiceme | yes, beats paracetamol hands down | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so niel is missing? | 23:04 |
| RzR | is neil supposed to be there too ? | 23:04 |
| juiceme | hope he'll come | 23:05 |
| peterleinchen_ | do not know, as I was away last weeks | 23:05 |
| RzR | it was busy at work IICR | 23:05 |
| RzR | he was | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | supposed to? sure! will he be here? dunno :-) | 23:05 |
| RzR | he is not a bot :) | 23:05 |
| juiceme | same, I've had lots going on lately | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just back from holiday | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so 100% "online" again | 23:06 |
| RzR | you were in spain werent you ? | 23:06 |
| juiceme | feeling refreshed and renewed now? :) | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even met javispedro on my stopover at Barcelona | 23:06 |
| juiceme | oo, cool | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 23:07 |
| RzR | cool he's hacking on tizen gear watches ;) | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 23:07 |
| RzR | that's nice | 23:07 |
| RzR | and did you see that neildk returned his jolla back | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he's also busy with his master thesis or whatever. I hope to see him around more often after he successfully finilized that | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 23:08 |
| peterleinchen_ | did he? really? | 23:08 |
| RzR | yes I think he posted to tmo | 23:08 |
| peterleinchen_ | I thought/read he stepped back from selling... | 23:08 |
| juiceme | at least he meant to sell it. frustrated about the battery, or the lack of spare batteries really. | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 23:09 |
| RzR | I may have missread | 23:09 |
| peterleinchen_ | battery is only top of ... | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no spare batts for jollaphone? that's .... :-x | 23:09 |
| peterleinchen_ | rZr, he wrote so but also wrote the other way | 23:09 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 glares at his Jolla | 23:10 | |
| * peterleinchen_ cant do so :( | 23:10 | |
| juiceme | DocScrutinizer05, there's no batteries _now_ but it don't mean there will nover be | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just like *eventually* the modem may learn LTE ;-) | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh, actually it already knows LTE, in some selected countries | 23:12 |
| juiceme | What I guess is they just have not dared to order abatch based on the probability of not being enough buyers for the thingies... It might be there is a lower limit on how many you can orfer from the subcontractor | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, what's on the agenda for today? | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | juiceme: exactly | 23:13 |
| RzR | ok let's go | 23:13 |
| RzR | 1st we didnt send minutes those past weeks | 23:14 |
| juiceme | true. | 23:14 |
| RzR | I did not feel confortable to write them | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who'sa chair? | 23:14 |
| juiceme | okay, but I did read the loghs | 23:14 |
| juiceme | peterleinchen | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually it's chair's task | 23:15 |
| peterleinchen_ | wrote so in my mail that I need some support to do so | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless agreed upon differntly | 23:15 |
| peterleinchen_ | had written moms and sent via mail | 23:15 |
| peterleinchen_ | not for the last two weeks | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I didn't catch up with mails yet | 23:15 |
| peterleinchen_ | who was supposed to do so for last two meetings? | 23:16 |
| RzR | anyway no one complained ? | 23:16 |
| peterleinchen_ | as I feel not right to write for those were I was absent | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when noone complained, then preparing meeting minutes for past meetings is mostly useless | 23:16 |
| peterleinchen_ | and yes no one complained at all | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meeting minutes are mostly to document decisions made, and for preparing next meeting | 23:17 |
| RzR | well I dont feel the need for those | 23:17 |
| RzR | that single wiki page will be enough | 23:18 |
| RzR | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council/Council_Q2_2014/Agenda | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | decisions usually need other form of publication as well, so that's not a strong argument for minutes | 23:18 |
| RzR | I would add a chapter per meeting | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no *rule* that requires meeting minutes | 23:18 |
| juiceme | as I see there was no decisions made on last meetings. | 23:18 |
| RzR | 6m * 4w = 24 chapters | 23:18 |
| juiceme | I was away last week | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just a best practice | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RzR: sounds good to me | 23:19 |
| RzR | I can help to edit / maintain that wiki page | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless when we can manage to prepare meeting minutes before next meeting, we should stick to the habit | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do we have any real points on our todo list for today? Or does any of the guests want to bring up a topic that needs attention? | 23:21 |
| RzR | no that much | 23:21 |
| RzR | I can suggest some | 23:21 |
| RzR | 2/ http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Task:Community_Council/Council_Q2_2014/Agenda | 23:21 |
| RzR | I thought this could be the entry point for community to bring some topics | 23:22 |
| RzR | like the previous ones we had in private emails | 23:22 |
| RzR | do we agrea on the fact it's prefered to contact Council in the public ? | 23:22 |
| juiceme | RzR, do you mean the category "possible tasks"? | 23:23 |
| RzR | users cant edit this page | 23:23 |
| RzR | but they can edit the talk page | 23:23 |
| juiceme | okay | 23:23 |
| RzR | so on each meeting I suggest to see our tasks and this sort this "talk" page | 23:24 |
| juiceme | so users can suggest topics on talk, and we can take them up on wikipage | 23:24 |
| RzR | this way we have direct connection to members | 23:24 |
| RzR | juiceme, that's the idea yes | 23:24 |
| juiceme | okay | 23:24 |
| peterleinchen_ | agreed , too. But where on TMO? | 23:25 |
| juiceme | do you intend on starting a specific topic of it on talk/community ? | 23:25 |
| RzR | i added this in my sig | 23:25 |
| RzR | but I can make a post | 23:26 |
| juiceme | something like "topics for council's attention" or smth | 23:26 |
| RzR | yea I'll do it | 23:26 |
| juiceme | ok | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sonds all good to me | 23:26 |
| peterleinchen_ | okay | 23:26 |
| RzR | in hope it will end in a holywar | 23:26 |
| RzR | it will NOT | 23:26 |
| juiceme | mmh, many things will :( | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | did anybody send a mail to NielsBreet CC Jolla asking for sorting of the co-GC stuff? | 23:27 |
| RzR | I mailed xfade once | 23:28 |
| juiceme | any reply? | 23:28 |
| RzR | none as DocScrutinizer05 predicted | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, i'm pretty sure this sort of mails gets trapped in his spam filter | 23:29 |
| juiceme | that's too bad | 23:29 |
| RzR | but I contacted lbt who's his collegue | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's fine | 23:29 |
| RzR | so xfade should be aware | 23:29 |
| peterleinchen_ | niel wrote a draft to Jolla board. But it got stuck, or? | 23:30 |
| RzR | let's ask this to neil when he's back | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we don't need a draft to Jolla board, we need an approach like <RzR> but I contacted lbt who's his collegue | 23:30 |
| peterleinchen_ | but we agreed to do so in one of last meetings | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we could send a mail to lbt and ask him to forward it to xfade | 23:31 |
| RzR | yes I can do that | 23:31 |
| juiceme | I agree with that... if lbt will talk with xfade over a cup of coffee or something it will be as good as reaching him via mail | 23:31 |
| peterleinchen_ | where I see this way as the "one" | 23:31 |
| peterleinchen_ | as it would take him only a few minutes | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "Dear Niels, could you please contact council/Joerg about creating some co-GC accounts for #maemo, so we can handle stuff like cloaks etc? Thanks a lot!" | 23:32 |
| juiceme | yes, this is not about time, just reaching | 23:32 |
| RzR | I have an other idea | 23:32 |
| RzR | let's invite jolla folks we know | 23:32 |
| RzR | in this place | 23:32 |
| RzR | like today | 23:33 |
| RzR | or next meeting | 23:33 |
| juiceme | possible | 23:33 |
| juiceme | what we'd like to talk about? | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jolla staff has no direct involvement with maemo in any way | 23:34 |
| juiceme | that's true too | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when we ask them to "waste their time" by attending a council meeting, we should have some very sound topic we want to discuss with them | 23:35 |
| peterleinchen_ | and that is ONLY about IRC, so mailing shoul be enough | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that topic should be of the kind that can't really get discussed on email or forum | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | again: maemo co-GC and jolla are *totally* unrelated! | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I asked for not mixing stuff like 2make friends with jolla" and any maemo admin related stuff like xfade creating co-GC | 23:38 |
| juiceme | okay, anything else on agenda that we can tackle today | 23:38 |
| juiceme | ? | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mixing this will not have a nice ending | 23:38 |
| peterleinchen_ | so what about MoMs? Where to post? | 23:40 |
| RzR | /invite x-fade #maemo-meeting | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>hi lbt, could you please forward this to xfade? "Dear Niels, could you please contact council/Joerg about creating some co-GC accounts for #maemo, so we can handle stuff like cloaks etc? Thanks a lot!" Thanks you lbt for taking care about it, we can't reach xfade under the mail accounts we know of<< | 23:40 |
| peterleinchen_ | Like here: http://maemo.org/community/council/ | 23:40 |
| peterleinchen_ | or also on TMO? With which account? | 23:40 |
| peterleinchen_ | Or do it only on wiki? | 23:40 |
| juiceme | use your own account to post the news page | 23:41 |
| RzR | DocScrutinizer05, did this w/ stskeeps just now | 23:41 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer05 | 23:41 | |
| juiceme | there is automatic script that will take your news artoicle and post it to TMO | 23:41 |
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| Win7Mac | hi | 23:42 |
| peterleinchen_ | juiceme: okay, but about layout? | 23:42 |
| Win7Mac | you just got mail Re: #maemo group contact update | 23:42 |
| RzR | Fwd: Re: #maemo group contact update | 23:42 |
| RzR | yea | 23:42 |
| RzR | great | 23:42 |
| juiceme | what I used to do, is I took a previous MoM as a baseline, edited that and then posted to news | 23:42 |
| juiceme | the layout is "partly html" | 23:42 |
| juiceme | kind of :) | 23:42 |
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| juiceme | you are allowed to use some html tags | 23:43 |
| juiceme | xes, hi | 23:43 |
| xes | hi! | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GREAT!!! Now all we need generalantilles to do is adding some proxies to the access list and we're done | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi xes! | 23:44 |
| RzR | Win7Mac, excellent job | 23:44 |
| xes | hi DocScrutinizer05! | 23:44 |
| Win7Mac | well, thank GenereralAbtilles | 23:44 |
| RzR | he's not there | 23:44 |
| RzR | so no glory ;) | 23:44 |
| Win7Mac | you should have gotten this earlier, sorry | 23:44 |
| RzR | well at least it's there | 23:45 |
| RzR | DocScrutinizer05, so next letter will be "let's make friend w/ j" | 23:45 |
| RzR | ;) | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /cs access #maemo list | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway we still can't handle cloaks with this | 23:45 |
| RzR | +AFRfiorstv | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only GC and co-GCs can ask freenode staff for cloak changes | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GC is not a flag in access list | 23:46 |
| RzR | DocScrutinizer05, he said : Is this enough or do I need to change something else? | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, we need to answer he please create a co-GC record at frenode for GeneralAntilles, Warfare, and I'd suggest also me | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this needs him to send a mail to freenode staff asking for it | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the permissions of co-GCs need to be: all irc channel administration (like reclaiming lost channels) plus cloak handling | 23:49 |
| juiceme | Win7Mac, hi | 23:49 |
| Win7Mac | o/ | 23:49 |
| RzR | ok for this DocScrutinizer05 | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RzR: can you please follow up on this task? | 23:50 |
| RzR | how ? | 23:51 |
| RzR | you want me to request this for you ? | 23:51 |
| RzR | like a bullet jacket ? | 23:52 |
| Win7Mac | please send request to GeneralAntilles so he stays on top | 23:52 |
| Win7Mac | of the loop | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I seem to understand you wrote a mail to xfade already. I can of course also try to contact GenAnt and explain to him that we need co-GC with cloak handling permissions | 23:52 |
| RzR | let me do this in coucil name | 23:53 |
| Win7Mac | great | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I asked for | 23:53 |
| RzR | ok | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can even CC Niels ;-) | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now you got a working email addr | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | here's my suggestion for co-GC candidates again: GeneralAntilles, warfare, joerg_rw | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since I want this stuff spread across more shoulders than only one person. For workload as well as redundancy reasons | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bus factor ;-) | 23:57 |
| juiceme | yes, that is very reasonable. | 23:57 |
| peterleinchen_ | okay to me | 23:57 |
| Win7Mac | absolutely | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once HiFo or e.V. has full ownership of the brand "maemo", xfade can transfer primary GC to Genant | 23:59 |
| RzR | can I be added as extra CG ? | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, why not | 23:59 |
| RzR | not that i plan to do it | 23:59 |
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