IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2013-10-25

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freemangordon	Pali: seems lynx has never made it to stable	00:02
freemangordon	So I guess the package is broken	00:03
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DocScrutinizer05	why would any package need lynx to get built?	00:03
freemangordon	NFC	00:03
Pali	freemangordon: what I did was: downloaded source package from extras, increased version, added debian/optify and sent it to autobuilder	00:04
Pali	nothing more, I did not added any dependency	00:04
DocScrutinizer05	me neither, probably autobuilder too	00:04
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freemangordon	Pali: well, SB in autobuilder is hathor, not aphophis as used to be before the migration	00:05
freemangordon	*apophis	00:05
freemangordon	that might be the reason	00:05
freemangordon	Setting up lynx (2.8.6-2.1maemo3) ...	00:05
freemangordon	update-alternatives: error: alternative path /usr/bin/lynx doesn't exist.	00:05
freemangordon	dpkg: error processing lynx (--configure):	00:05
freemangordon	so lynx should be fixed first IMO	00:06
freemangordon	Pali: I don;t dare to downgrade autobuilder SB :)	00:07
DocScrutinizer05	the gucharmap package should get checked what for it allegedly needs lynx to support make and/or gcc	00:07
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DocScrutinizer05	I mean, it#s absolute nogo to try and download sth from internet to autobbuilder, during package build	00:08
Pali	so problem is in lynx package?	00:08
Pali	I will look at it then...	00:08
DocScrutinizer05	and I hope it would fail anyway	00:08
Pali	I pushed more packages to extras-devel which needed optification	00:09
DocScrutinizer05	for the life of mine I can't think of any reasonable use for lynx during building a package	00:09
Pali	to make rootfs more free	00:09
Pali	gtk using lynx when building documentation	00:09
Pali	generate text files from html (or similar)	00:09
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: I hope you thoroughly checked for each single one if it actually may get optified	00:10
freemangordon	Pali: look at this http://pastebin.com/6wzPMw3j, according to google it is from 2010	00:10
Pali	DocScrutinizer05: I checked that which are installed on my n900	00:10
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Pali	and I have my own script which sort packages by sum of size of files stored on ubifs rootds	00:11
freemangordon	Pali: unfortunately google cannot find any references to that pastebin	00:11
DocScrutinizer05	???	00:11
freemangordon	but you're not the first to hit that lynx problem	00:11
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DocScrutinizer05	Pali: packages need check if they are needed during boot before they may get optified	00:13
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freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: do you think packages in maemo-extras could be needed for booting?	00:14
Pali	no those packages should not be needed at boot - before rcS-late (which mounting /opt/)	00:14
DocScrutinizer05	I seem to recall some fool optified PA codecs, which caused epic audio breakdown	00:14
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: those packages are in extras, not in SDK ;)	00:15
Pali	I optified only packages which are not installed by default on clean n900	00:15
freemangordon	( Pali's packages)	00:15
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: that's safe	00:15
DocScrutinizer05	thanks	00:15
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Pali	there is one very big, part of ssu (which I did not touched!): posix-locales	00:16
DocScrutinizer05	(at least as long as the packages don't replace other packages that are installed by default)	00:16
Pali	eating 23MB on rootfs	00:16
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, so?	00:17
Pali	maybe we should check if that package is needed and when...	00:17
DocScrutinizer05	known failwale	00:17
freemangordon	Pali: you can;t optify that, it is part of libc afaik	00:17
Pali	then, ok	00:17
DocScrutinizer05	the package IS needed, even during boot	00:17
Pali	DocScrutinizer05: I do not know that, so this is why I'm asking...	00:17
DocScrutinizer05	it's all locales	00:18
freemangordon	Pali: maybe ask aapo, he played a lot with libc	00:18
freemangordon	but i doubt locales can be optified	00:18
DocScrutinizer05	core maemo system component	00:18
DocScrutinizer05	no they can't	00:18
Pali	freemangordon: I see dosbox in cssu-thumb, can you optify it?	00:19
freemangordon	Pali: me?!? it is there just for the test purposes	00:20
freemangordon	I just get the source from the repos and recompiled	00:20
freemangordon	Pali: BTW are you sure it is not optified?	00:20
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Pali	yes, dosbox has 1,7MB on rootfs	00:22
freemangordon	hmm, I guess I can optify the .deb	00:22
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* DocScrutinizer05 blames Nokia's bad-to-the-bones rotten mindset to not FOSS locales		00:23
DocScrutinizer05	which gives us this 23MB abomination	00:23
freemangordon	Pali: dosbox will have to wait, there are more thing I have to do I don;t have time for	00:24
Pali	ok :-)	00:24
DocScrutinizer05	I mean, it's TEXT!!!	00:25
freemangordon	first of them to report OMAPFB CMA failures to CMA maintainer, but I don;t think I'll have time before Sunday :(	00:25
DocScrutinizer05	jonwil could RE this friggin blob locale.cache 23MB, and split it into original locale text files one for each locale	00:28
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: it is part of libc	00:28
freemangordon	afaik	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	shouldn't be too hard to write a simple disassembler based on awk or whatever	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: sure, the file format is completely documented	00:29
DocScrutinizer05	it's basically just like shipping text in a tarball for which no untar exists since nobody ever needed such tool	00:30
DocScrutinizer05	the "tar" however exists in source FOSS	00:31
DocScrutinizer05	Nokia "tarred up" the 39some locales into that locales.cache and never published the original files from which that locales.cache got built	00:32
DocScrutinizer05	afaik	00:32
Pali	looks like package is open: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/p/posix-locales/	00:32
Pali	in maemo SDK	00:32
freemangordon	posix-locales_2.7.2-1maemo7-binonly0+0m5.tar.gz doesn't exactly look like source package :)	00:33
freemangordon	but older versions are	00:33
Pali	https://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/posix-locales	00:33
freemangordon	we're missing the latest version	00:34
freemangordon	but changes should't be that hard to add	00:35
freemangordon	Pali: BTW why do you ned more space on rootfs?	00:35
freemangordon	*need	00:35
DocScrutinizer05	that's not all the plain textx that show up instead of "tana-fi-modest-error-imap"	00:35
Pali	because I had 10MB :-) Now I have 20MB	00:35
freemangordon	Pali: rm your syslog :P	00:35
DocScrutinizer05	this 23MB blob contains ALL texts of ALL language versions of ALL core apps	00:36
freemangordon	anyway, /me is out, night guys	00:37
* DocScrutinizer05 too		00:37
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Pali	freemangordon: it looks like posix-locales 2.7.2-1maemo7-binonly0+0m5 is based on git version 2.7.2-1maemo6	00:42
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: I mean the compressed(?) cache is 23MB in size. The original set of language specific text definitions must be significantly more than this - this is one of the reasons Nokia didn't ship them on device I guess	00:43
Pali	I'm generating that binary files from source files from git	00:43
Pali	and will run diff on binary files if are different...	00:44
DocScrutinizer05	which binary files?	00:44
DocScrutinizer05	which source files?	00:44
Pali	binary from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/p/posix-locales/	00:44
Pali	and source from https://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/posix-locales	00:45
DocScrutinizer05	again: I don't see any of the textx of any of the apps in those	00:45
DocScrutinizer05	texts*	00:45
Pali	on http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/p/posix-locales/ is version 2.7.2-1maemo7-binonly0+0m5	00:45
DocScrutinizer05	so what?	00:45
Pali	and on https://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/posix-locales 2.7.2-1maemo6	00:45
DocScrutinizer05	again, how's that related?	00:46
Pali	find source files of package posix-locales	00:46
Pali	for version 2.7.2-1maemo7-binonly0+0m5	00:46
Pali	look at http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/p/posix-locales/posix-locales_2.7.2-1maemo7-binonly0%2b0m5.tar.gz	00:46
Pali	specialy at script update-from-git.sh	00:46
DocScrutinizer05	where are the texts that show up e.g. on microb-menu?	00:46
Pali	these are posix locales	00:47
Pali	not microb locales	00:47
Pali	posix locales are used in coreutils, gnu apps, etc.	00:47
* DocScrutinizer05 headdesks		00:47
Pali	(maybe in busybox too, do not know)	00:47
Pali	and there are info for LC_NUMERIC	00:48
Pali	LC_TIME	00:48
Pali	and all other info used also on linux desktop...	00:48
DocScrutinizer05	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/p/posix-locales/posix-locales_2.7.2-1maemo7-binonly0+0m5.tar.gz has zilch	00:48
DocScrutinizer05	just the 23MB blob	00:49
Pali	look how that blob is generated	00:49
Pali	from https://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/posix-locales by script update-from-git.sh	00:49
DocScrutinizer05	aha	00:50
DocScrutinizer05	https://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/posix-locales/source/94d56d5480188e718bcace41ebe27f83b00f5a04:locales/de_DE looks pretty sparse	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	I can't find any of the texts I'd expect in there	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	it's the plain locale format definitions, no texts	00:51
DocScrutinizer05	/usr/share/hildon/filemanager.desktop: Name=sfil_ap_name. sfil_ap_name is not defined in that maemo.gitorious.org aiui	00:58
DocScrutinizer05	it however comes from /user/lib/locale/locale-archive	00:58
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DocScrutinizer05	all those tana_fi_homebutton and sfil_ap_name and what_not_elsefoobar come from those 23MB blob, and I never seen the source for all those definitions. timeless once published his own version of texts, since he wasn't too happy with the job done by Nokia's translators	01:00
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DocScrutinizer05	but aiui he was able to do this only because he had access to those non-published sourcefiles which the 23MB megablob locale-archibve gets built from	01:01
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DocScrutinizer05	otherwise I'd happily nuke that 23MB monster with all the cz_CZ and hu_HU and whatnot texts in it, and replace it by non-archived de_DE and en_EN locales only, which would eat <500k	01:04
DocScrutinizer05	en_EN needed since nokia in their eternal wisdom decided to not use plain technical english texts in their source/binaries but rather that sfil_ap_name gibberish. Thus lang=C doesn't work in maemo, and if it would, you'd see filemanager named sfil_app_name and the menus look all similar to that	01:07
DocScrutinizer05	allegedly the translators would get confused when they had real legible meaningful english texts like "filemanager" to translate, rather that "sfil_app_name"	01:08
nox-	oh dear...	01:08
DocScrutinizer05	s/that/than/	01:08
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: allegedly the translators would get confused when they had real legible meaningful english texts like "filemanager" to translate, rather than "sfil_app_name"	01:08
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DocScrutinizer05	nox-: ?	01:12
nox-	just those non-en string stuff	01:14
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	01:14
DocScrutinizer05	RE/"decompress" and split into locales of that locale-archive 22.8MB would indeed be a heroic achievement and do a lot of benefit for maemo	01:16
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* DocScrutinizer05 wonders where pali found any update-from-git.sh applicable for maemo		01:32
DocScrutinizer05	but pali just left this server, without saying "good night" :-S	01:34
Sysaxed	http://sumoudou.org/Using%20the%20same%20.emacs%20file%20on%20a%20PC%20and%20Nokia%20N900%20GNU%20mobile%20phone.html	01:34
Sysaxed	holy shit what's wrong with this page	01:34
DocScrutinizer05	err, the color?	01:35
DocScrutinizer05	my eyes bleed, despite I closed the window after 1.75s	01:35
DocScrutinizer05	prolly the result from following the instructions it gives	01:36
DocScrutinizer05	well, at least it's W3Cxhtml and W3Ccss compliant ;-P	01:39
DocScrutinizer05	and I'm blind now	01:39
Sysaxed	the tutorial part starts about here	01:39
Sysaxed	"To do this:</p> <ul> <li>Create the scripts: <table bgcolor="#000000" border="1"><tr><td border="0"><font color="#FFFF00"><b>"	01:39
Sysaxed	and so on...	01:40
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DocScrutinizer05	maybe run it through lynx twice or three times, to filter out the real info - though I dount it's worth the effort	01:48
DocScrutinizer05	when somebody sends me such email, he's automatically on my spam blacklist	01:48
DocScrutinizer05	and bg=#000000 fg=#ffff00 is on purpose, just for that the responsible person should receive special punishment	01:50
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: wait, really? i thought C was supposed to be ascii english	01:52
DocScrutinizer05	C is the default builtin text afaik	01:53
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DocScrutinizer05	which of course is _supposed_ to be plain english	01:53
DocScrutinizer05	just that Nokia doesn't care	01:54
DocScrutinizer05	tbh I have no clue what C really means	01:55
DocScrutinizer05	I gather it's not the coding language	01:55
r00t\|home	http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Standard-Locales.html	01:59
r00t\|home	''"C"	01:59
r00t\|home	This is the standard C locale. The attributes and behavior it provides are specified in the ISO C standard. When your program starts up, it initially uses this locale by default. ''	01:59
r00t\|home	note that locales are not just text translations, also behaviour of various i/o and string functions	02:00
DocScrutinizer05	sure	02:02
DocScrutinizer05	anyway it's actually the coding language. Thanks for that quote	02:02
r00t\|home	in that context 'C' makes sense	02:02
r00t\|home	been wondering myself and looked it up, 5th google hit for: c locale	02:03
r00t\|home	enjoy	02:03
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	02:03
DocScrutinizer05	do you know of any tool to "unpack" locales-archive?	02:04
r00t\|home	no...	02:04
r00t\|home	find the tool to "pack" one and go from there?	02:04
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, as "useless" as a disassembler	02:05
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r00t\|home	or just find the code libc uses to read it?	02:05
brolin_empey	DocScrutinizer05: Maybe you could appreciate viewing http://brolin.be/ in author mode with ECMAScript enabled? ;-)	02:05
DocScrutinizer05	r00t\|home: :nod:	02:07
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DocScrutinizer05	brolin_empey: hm?	02:08
DocScrutinizer05	what's "author mode" ?	02:08
brolin_empey	DocScrutinizer05: A term used by Opera Desktop: author mode as opposed to user mode.	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	errr	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	no opera here	02:10
brolin_empey	DocScrutinizer05: Author mode means the document is presented as specified by the author of the document.	02:11
r00t\|home	brolin_empey: sick	02:13
brolin_empey	DocScrutinizer05: User mode means the document is presented as specified by the user.	02:14
r00t\|home	DocScrutinizer05: he's just trying to destroy what's left of your eyes after viewing that emacs tutorial...	02:15
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DocScrutinizer05	thought as much ;-P	02:16
DocScrutinizer05	r33b.net	02:16
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brolin_empey	r00t\|home: Maybe you would prefer http://brolin.be/clock/ over http://brolin.be/ ?	02:17
DocScrutinizer05	ooh, found update-from-git.sh	02:18
* brolin_empey is finally installing the CSSU-stable because he wants to use modest to access a Google Mail account via the IMAP.		02:22
brolin_empey	IMAP on OMAP. ☺	02:23
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* brolin_empey seems to have successfully installed the CSSU-stable. modest now seems able to open/load messages from a Google Mail account via the IMAP. So far, though, I have tested only with a Wireless LAN, not with the cellular network.		06:08
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DocScrutinizer05	moo	08:47
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brolin_empey	DocScrutinizer05: Lactation?	09:11
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brolin_empey	SHAman?	09:14
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brolin_empey	If someone seriously created a program named dog as “an enhanced replacement for cat”, does a command or program named woman exist to complement man?	09:17
brolin_empey	Write-Only man(ual)?	09:18
brolin_empey	If tac seriously exists as a backward cat, then god should exist as a backward dog too. :-D	09:20
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brolin_empey	Then I could seriously use chmod to set god mode. Well, at least the mode of god.	09:21
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DocScrutinizer05	~reverse brolin_empey	09:22
infobot	yepme_nilorb	09:22
DocScrutinizer05	~dog brolin_empey	09:23
* infobot stares at brolin_empey until brolin_empey whimpers and pees all over himself.		09:23
DocScrutinizer05	trivia about cat: it originally meant conCATenate&print	09:25
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DocScrutinizer05	which is still what cat does	09:25
DocScrutinizer05	guess what's "usr"	09:26
DocScrutinizer05	hint: it's three(!) words	09:28
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DocScrutinizer05	>>When Dennis Ritchie was asked what he would do diffrerently regarding the birth of Unix, he said "I would put a 'e' in /tmp"<<	09:43
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sono	usr is simply for "multi-user programs" everything else is made up afterwards	09:46
sono	hm	09:47
sono	nowait	09:48
Luke-Jr	just "user"	09:48
sono	user something resources?	09:48
Luke-Jr	as in "not boot"	09:48
sono	damn	09:48
sono	haha i actually forgot	09:49
brolin_empey	DocScrutinizer05: Yes, I knew cat means concatenate. :-P	09:49
DocScrutinizer05	unix system resources	09:50
sono	now that is certainly not it.	09:50
brolin_empey	~cat DocScrutinizer05	09:50
* infobot shoves a feral cat down DocScrutinizer05's pants		09:50
sono	the unix system did not go into /usr	09:50
DocScrutinizer05	USER didn't even have write permissions or any data whatsoever in /usr	09:51
sono	unless your hosts is in /usr/etc/hosts	09:51
sono	irrelevant	09:51
brolin_empey	~reverse Microsoft Windows Live	09:52
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, this discussion is irrelevant	09:52
infobot	eviL swodniW tfosorciM	09:52
sono	/usr contains installations of user-specific programs	09:52
DocScrutinizer05	bullshit	09:52
sono	remember when unix actually was multi-user machines?	09:52
DocScrutinizer05	~optification	09:53
infobot	optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit and partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"	09:53
sono	hahah	09:53
sono	the bullshit again	09:53
Luke-Jr	the point of /usr was that you didn't need it to boot the system	09:53
sono	you're so full of it.	09:53
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Luke-Jr	everything needed to boot was in /bin etc	09:53
Luke-Jr	everything else went in /usr	09:53
Luke-Jr	unless it was local, then it went in /usr/local	09:53
sono	Luke-Jr: stuff you didnt need in single user. yes.	09:54
DocScrutinizer05	no, not everything, only "System Resources" aka binaries, libs, whatnot	09:54
sono	user system resources	09:54
sono	that was it	09:54
DocScrutinizer05	rhe idea of /usr originally been to share one volume between several machines	09:54
DocScrutinizer05	thus stuff in there is a) not user-specific, and b) not needed during boot	09:55
DocScrutinizer05	however see /usr/local/	09:55
DocScrutinizer05	which should mount back to a local volme	09:56
sono	i didnt mean user-specific, i meant "for the users" as opposed to "for the admins"	09:56
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sono	it used to be that they were actually differnt people =)	09:56
DocScrutinizer05	haha, what's with usr/sbin ?	09:56
sono	that came later afaik. also is an abomination	09:57
Luke-Jr	…	09:57
DocScrutinizer05	don't mess with an old grumpy fart who's doing unix since ~30 years	09:57
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brolin_empey	sono: Remember when a “phone” was a telephone instead of a computer with optional telephony capability?	09:58
DocScrutinizer05	DUH, 38, damn the time flies by	09:58
sono	you're way too quick with the ranthammer to gegt respect, no matter how grey l..	09:58
sono	hahahhaha 38	09:58
sono	i am 36. have you been doing unix since you were 8?	09:59
DocScrutinizer05	ooh, you're right	09:59
DocScrutinizer05	no, I thought 15	09:59
sono	i am done with this	09:59
DocScrutinizer05	but actually might have been way later	09:59
Luke-Jr	I vote we strap sono to a Windows RT toy and make him use Program Files	09:59
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	10:00
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brolin_empey	Luke-Jr: You mean PROGRA~1 ? ;-)	10:00
DocScrutinizer05	:-D	10:01
kerio	sono: fhs doesn't care about your bullshit, thankfully	10:01
Luke-Jr	fhs sucks, wtf did they do to poor /mnt ?	10:01
DocScrutinizer05	hihi	10:01
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Luke-Jr	I need to figure out eudev soon.	10:02
Luke-Jr	since the systemd idiots took over udev	10:02
* DocScrutinizer05 giggles watching USA blush on embarrassment about their own espionage and the global damage done		10:02
DocScrutinizer05	singular, not plural	10:03
DocScrutinizer05	THE systemd idiot	10:03
DocScrutinizer05	akso took over /usr, so my above joke been just a reminescence, since soon we'll miss it completely	10:03
DocScrutinizer05	s/ak/al/	10:04
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: also took over /usr, so my above joke been just a reminescence, since soon we'll miss it completely	10:04
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DocScrutinizer05	in times of systemd, there are no more late-mounted volumes, and no more small root filesystems where every byte counts	10:05
DocScrutinizer05	fsck lennart!	10:05
l4m3rx	i doubt systemd will take over completly	10:06
* brolin_empey is (still) up past his bedtime.		10:13
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l4m3rx	btw u gatta give credit to Lennart Poettering.... i didn't belive some1 will make init i'll disslike more then sysV ...	10:16
l4m3rx	not an easy task to do.	10:16
sono	i am trying to overcome the initial reaction because it's clearly here to stay..	10:23
* sono arrived at the office		10:23
sono	kerio: luckily, the filesystem structure goes way before the actual FHS, it goes back to bell labs	10:24
sono	kerio: so more bullshit	10:24
* sono still doesn't know how to write rules for the new udev		10:24
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brolin_empey	~cat dog	10:26
* infobot shoves a feral cat down dog's pants		10:26
brolin_empey	~dog cat	10:26
* infobot stares at cat until cat whimpers and pees all over himself.		10:26
brolin_empey	~dog female	10:27
* infobot stares at female until female whimpers and pees all over himself.		10:27
sono	and can we finally stop the hostilities, it's getting old. i guess we all proved that we are cranky old farts long enough now	10:27
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brolin_empey	Why does infobot seem to assume that all IRC users are male? (fail)	10:28
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jaska	gender-specific pronouns are silly.	10:29
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sono	indeed	10:31
sono	and yet, they prevail	10:31
brolin_empey	Or maybe female whimpers and urinates all over infobot, who is (a) male, hence the masculine pronoun?	10:31
brolin_empey	What is the intended antecedent (sp?) of “himself” in the sentence “infobot stares at female until female whimpers and pees all over himself.”?	10:33
brolin_empey	antecedant?	10:33
brolin_empey	~dog	10:34
infobot	it has been said that dog is In Dog We Trust	10:34
brolin_empey	~dog	10:34
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, dog is In Dog We Trust	10:34
brolin_empey	~dog self	10:35
* infobot stares at self until self whimpers and pees all over himself.		10:35
jaska	~dog infobot	10:36
* infobot stares at infobot until infobot whimpers and pees all over himself.		10:36
jaska	eyes in stalks?	10:36
brolin_empey	~cat infobot	10:36
* infobot shoves a feral cat down infobot's pants		10:36
brolin_empey	~reverse racecar	10:37
infobot	racecar	10:37
brolin_empey	~reverse engineer	10:38
infobot	reenigne	10:38
brolin_empey	~reverse palindrome	10:38
infobot	emordnilap	10:38
brolin_empey	~reverse PRND	10:39
infobot	DNRP	10:39
brolin_empey	~forward D	10:39
brolin_empey	~forward 1	10:39
brolin_empey	Aww. ☹	10:40
brolin_empey	~slap stick	10:41
* infobot slaps stick, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!		10:41
DocScrutinizer05	~gender	10:41
infobot	I'm gay	10:41
brolin_empey	~finger self	10:41
* infobot raises his middle finger to self		10:41
DocScrutinizer05	~attack brolin_empey	10:42
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing brolin_empey		10:42
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brolin_empey	Why is infobot now feminine instead of masculine?	10:43
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brolin_empey	~gender bender	10:43
infobot	I heard bender is sexless.	10:43
brolin_empey	~gender hack	10:44
infobot	I heard hack is male.	10:44
brolin_empey	~gender hack	10:44
DocScrutinizer05	:-P	10:44
infobot	and WOOOOSH	10:45
brolin_empey	~gender infobot	10:45
infobot	I heard infobot is female.	10:45
brolin_empey	~gender female	10:45
infobot	I heard female is sexless.	10:45
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brolin_empey	~gender male	10:45
infobot	I heard male is lesbian.	10:45
brolin_empey	:-D	10:45
doc\|home	you can probably message the bot	10:46
DocScrutinizer05	~query	10:46
infobot	talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)	10:46
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brolin_empey	~gender brolin_empey DocScrutinizer05	10:47
infobot	I heard brolin_empey DocScrutinizer05 is sexless.	10:47
infobot	so CALL ME NOW!	10:47
infobot	(only 4.99 per minute)	10:48
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DocScrutinizer05	~striptease	10:51
infobot	Hoogah Hoogah wah wah takes of the box dances around showing of the cpu and memory Ah yeah you likey my little HD no?	10:51
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DocScrutinizer05	~.~	10:55
infobot	Ni hao!	10:55
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zamn900	hello DocScrutinizer05 great master. Can I have an app for automatically have timers of the day and night or custom of general and silence profile?	10:59
zamn900	and why dropbox never recognizes me as the account to authenticate? I am pretty sure I enter the right user and pass	11:01
DocScrutinizer05	err, when I correctly parsed your question, then the answer is "YES". And the answer to your next question is "alarmed"	11:01
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zamn900	it seems already on tasks in htop alarmed	11:01
DocScrutinizer05	and I heard dropbox changed API. IIRC. thus no more works	11:02
DocScrutinizer05	don't mix alarmd and alarmed	11:02
DocScrutinizer05	~pkg	11:02
infobot	well, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/	11:02
zamn900	and no develops? no chances? no alternatives to that app?	11:02
DocScrutinizer05	that app is brilliant	11:03
zamn900	ah ok thank you DocScrutinizer05	11:03
DocScrutinizer05	(I contributed to it ;-P )	11:03
zamn900	I meant about dropbox	11:03
DocScrutinizer05	aah, sorry, I don't know much about that dropbox issue	11:03
zamn900	all remains to do is remove it	11:04
zamn900	and some alternative app?	11:04
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, I'm using my own server	11:04
zamn900	that's means?	11:04
DocScrutinizer05	that means I never used dropbox or any of the possibly existing alternatives	11:05
zamn900	alright	11:05
zamn900	bye	11:05
DocScrutinizer05	thus I have no idea and can't really help	11:05
zamn900	ok	11:05
DocScrutinizer05	likewise I know little about gmail	11:06
DocScrutinizer05	or facebook	11:06
DocScrutinizer05	or twitter	11:06
DocScrutinizer05	or wazzapp	11:06
zamn900	yappari	11:07
DocScrutinizer05	or whatever is the spelling of that hoax	11:07
zamn900	is cool developed	11:07
zamn900	yes no problem about that ones	11:07
zamn900	maybe because is all developed	11:08
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DocScrutinizer05	note that alarmed also has a nice versatile cmdline interface, all it needs is a symlink to not break your fingers when using it: /usr/bin/alarmed -> /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py	11:10
DocScrutinizer05	for completely unclear reasons shapeshifter(?) refused to add that link to the package	11:11
DocScrutinizer05	http://privatepaste.com/4c0722f2e6	11:12
DocScrutinizer05	ooh, he also didn't use basename($0) in --help output	11:13
DocScrutinizer05	and (a pity) tehere's no --version option	11:13
zamn900	hold down... anyway just installed... man as I tab you you get on fire	11:14
zamn900	XP	11:15
DocScrutinizer05	~xyawn	11:17
infobot	somebody said xyawn was big coffee	11:17
DocScrutinizer05	K	11:17
zamn900	YEAH cool app DocScrutinizer05 I configured my stuff	11:18
zamn900	cool	11:18
DocScrutinizer05	toldya it's a cool app	11:18
l4m3rx	DocScrutinizer05, /etc/init.d/rcS the mount_mmc() function, is the earlyest stage of boot where we have mounted partitions with rw? right?	11:18
l4m3rx	(excluding the tmpfs partitions ofc)	11:18
DocScrutinizer05	I guess that's correct, yeah	11:18
DocScrutinizer05	at end of rcS	11:19
zamn900	anyway before last flash this n900 wa heavy slow	11:19
zamn900	now it's completely reborn	11:19
zamn900	such a pain no dropbox here	11:20
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, in some respect maemo5 is like windows - occasionally a complete fresh installation does wonders. Just for maemo5 it's months, not days	11:22
zamn900	lulz did you never try smscon? it's amazing... as you test the 'track on' with gps... it starts and you can't stop it from using gps... but it shows the gps icon anyway so whoever steal this... can understand and remove battey suddenly...	11:23
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zamn900	and I did not test it without money inside the SIM	11:25
zamn900	but I think this is not working without money...won't send sms	11:26
DocScrutinizer05	good point! file a ticket against the app	11:26
DocScrutinizer05	it SHOULD hide GPS systray icon	11:26
zamn900	I won't do you it	11:26
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DocScrutinizer05	sorry, I never file tickets against bugs I haven't reproduced myself	11:27
zamn900	alright	11:27
DocScrutinizer05	BY myself	11:27
zamn900	no develop never on it then	11:28
zamn900	anyway you know yet by me here	11:28
DocScrutinizer05	your fault ;-)	11:28
zamn900	you will might have will to test by youself	11:28
zamn900	then...	11:28
zamn900	I'll win	11:29
DocScrutinizer05	you could find out who's maintainer (on ~pkg), and try to directly ping her/him here, instead of using the bugtracker link on that ~pkg page	11:29
zamn900	also the deficit fact further is that without money on the card ... no sms more and loss of tracks	11:30
DocScrutinizer05	only so much you can do about that	11:30
zamn900	but... as the n900 gets a new and not IMEI recognized card it send the sms with new number	11:31
zamn900	but in the case the stealer does not be supported about hot to flash the n900 before starting it with new sim card and number	11:32
zamn900	if the stealer get supported here about how to flash it... before to use it with his own sim card	11:33
zamn900	he will win	11:33
zamn900	so... there are such deficits... of the entire plan project... not only some bug	11:34
zamn900	I reported here And I won't report in no any other part	11:35
zamn900	byez	11:35
DocScrutinizer05	A suggestion to the security concerned devels/hackers: patch uBoot so it needs slide-open AND volume-up AND cam-door open to pop up menu. Make default startup pass a parameter on cmdline that causes a lockscreen to show up that mentions the owner's name, and landline phone number. Make that screen also "call home" whenever a wrong device lockcode gets entered. And now the missing jigsaw puzzle piece: Patch NOLO so it doesn't enter	11:37
DocScrutinizer05	flashing mode unless you hold a key of user's choice (NOT 'U'!), or even completely forbid NOLO entering flashing mode	11:37
sono	sounds like you thought of everything (except jtag perhaps ;-)	11:39
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zamn900	oh god this sounds good	11:46
zamn900	I would learn	11:46
zamn900	some guide?	11:46
cehteh	DocScrutinizer05: i was thinking about something along displaying a bootscreen, encrypted by the hash of the bootloader/bootimage plus users rsa key (only decryption available on the device), plus maybe some other credential like pin/passwd	11:47
cehteh	if the user feeds once a unique image (deleted everywhere else) then this should be rather hard to crack and its easily visible if tampered	11:47
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DocScrutinizer05	cehteh: nice idea	11:50
DocScrutinizer05	different target but nicely complementary to my suggestion	11:50
cehteh	apropos lockscreen ... would be nice if it accepts characters and keyboard input too, i dont care if only the numpad is visible on touchscreen	11:51
zamn900	yes I see that too as well	11:52
cehteh	but that you cant enter lockcodes from keyboard sux	11:52
DocScrutinizer05	yep	11:52
DocScrutinizer05	anything that can't get entered via both HID alternatively sucks	11:52
cehteh	besides the lockcode is hillariously insecore .. what hash do they use?	11:52
cehteh	and full device encryption ..	11:53
cehteh	well prolly no for the n900 anymore, aging system :(	11:53
DocScrutinizer05	you heard of neo900?	11:53
cehteh	i mean by default/well supported i know it works has hack	11:53
cehteh	sure	11:53
zamn900	nope? ahaahaha	11:54
cehteh	how is the ne0900 come along?	11:54
DocScrutinizer05	monday we start "kickstarter"	11:54
cehteh	i like the idea but its way to expensive for me	11:54
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DocScrutinizer05	actually NOT kickstarter	11:54
zamn900	uboot I have already installed... so should I mess up by myself the conf?	11:54
cehteh	half the price double the ram would be a deal	11:54
cehteh	and meanwhile i'd like a biggier screen	11:55
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, not really feasible	11:55
cehteh	i know	11:55
cehteh	too bad	11:55
DocScrutinizer05	maybe ArgoNinehundred	11:55
cehteh	neo900 is an expensive geek toy, i wish it all luck and success, but i cant go that way	11:55
DocScrutinizer05	aka Argo900	11:56
DocScrutinizer05	aka GTA04-ArgoN	11:56
cehteh	hardware wise i'd like my wifes Note 2 ... but the droid sux	11:56
DocScrutinizer05	once freemantle settled and matured on Neo900, we might dare to switch hw architecture	11:57
cehteh	would be awesome when one had some more choices for an od	11:57
cehteh	os	11:57
cehteh	cyanogen might be an option for my wife but isnt for me	11:57
cehteh	and a friend offered me a spare n900 so my stock is secured for some time	11:57
DocScrutinizer05	wait for next major step of this operation, which may start in as short as 12 months	11:57
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cehteh	mmmaybe i get a jolla otherwise, but thats also rather a waitandsee	11:58
cehteh	yeah i hope i can sustain the n900 as long as possible	11:58
DocScrutinizer05	when Neo900 realy flies, we might build an ecosystem that allows own case	11:58
cehteh	anyways .. there are meanwhile few more players, sometihng i wouldnt expected 1.5-2 years ago	11:59
DocScrutinizer05	for Argo900	11:59
cehteh	firefox os, 'nuntu, sailfish, ....	11:59
cehteh	competition is really good	11:59
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cehteh	any island-platform needs to readjust now	11:59
DocScrutinizer05	all targeting at smartphone competition, NOT at MID	11:59
cehteh	yeah	12:00
cehteh	but i think more about ecology, having platforms with portable libs, forcing devs to think in a portable way	12:00
DocScrutinizer05	none of them even considers offering an alternative to their individual flavor of "appstore"	12:00
cehteh	years ago you made one android and one ios port and you are done	12:00
cehteh	now you have really reconsider when making products	12:01
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cehteh	well i'll bet that will come because no one wants to maintain 5+ platforms for his app	12:01
DocScrutinizer05	and none really dedicated to FOSS	12:01
cehteh	thats true, but its a start to force people thinking in a interoperating/portable way	12:02
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cehteh	nice seed for FOSS software. its a death pin if some FOSS project is tied to a propietary platform	12:02
cehteh	ultimatively this will lead to more free software and free platforms	12:03
DocScrutinizer05	nobody wants to earn money with devices anymore. Devices are subsidized to make money fro appstore	12:03
DocScrutinizer05	a concept Nokia finaaly died from	12:03
cehteh	i think that model is current but not sustainable in the long run	12:04
DocScrutinizer05	it seems to work - a bazillion fart-apps prove that	12:04
sono	cehteh: the model is about as sustainable as almost all of commerce.	12:04
cehteh	yeah but plg get sick of them, the hype is over	12:05
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sono	cehteh: it works, it makes people money, and as long as this is true, it will persist	12:05
sono	how much it sucks is entirely irrelevant...	12:05
cehteh	sure, but with free software providing 'useful' tools the fart-apps become irrelavent, people have to deliver something to get money from software	12:05
sono	? no	12:06
sono	FLOSS has been useful for ages	12:06
sono	yet we have as doc said a bazillion fart apps	12:06
cehteh	most (except email haha) daily jobs can be done on the n900 for me. i dont need fart-apps	12:06
cehteh	yes, still i tihnk that was a hype, everyone wants a speaking cat and whatever .. but meanwhile it gets boring	12:07
cehteh	everyone seen it no one needs it	12:07
zammy	DocScrutinizer05, anyway how to make uboot make that weird and customizable things?	12:07
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sono	cehteh: authors (small shops with a terrible boss and clueless dev slaves, or just individuals who wish to enrich themselves) will write fart apps, and people will buy fart apps for the same reason they watch daytime TV.	12:08
sono	cehteh: there is no end in sight	12:08
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DocScrutinizer05	zammy: that's basically rather simple - when you know how uBoot works	12:09
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zammy	maybe with uboot edit something...	12:10
DocScrutinizer05	anyway cya folks, I'm busy with preparing our "cone-out" at monday	12:10
DocScrutinizer05	come* even	12:10
sono	yea i got work stuff, too..	12:10
zammy	ok	12:10
sono	cya	12:10
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zammy	is bootscreen control panel applet?	12:12
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kerum	hello. I'm having some issues flashing my N900	14:29
kerum	when N900 boots up, all images seem to be broken	14:30
kerum	everything, the whole desktop is broken, and even the pin-input is consisted only of broken images	14:30
kerum	anyone have some time to tell me what to do?	14:31
sono	you just flashed both images? latest versions? and this happens before touching anything?	14:36
kerum	yes, latest	14:37
sono	hrm. i have very little experience and can't imagine what would cause this. doc is out preparing for the neo crowdfunding launch	14:37
sono	maybe he will answer later	14:37
DocScrutinizer05	you failed to flash COMBINED after VANILLA	14:37
sono	haha =)	14:37
sono	DocScrutinizer05: you are omnipresent aren't you =)	14:38
kerum	i should flash vanilla first, or?	14:38
DocScrutinizer05	yes	14:38
DocScrutinizer05	and yes	14:38
kerum	will try now	14:38
sono	funny symptom	14:38
DocScrutinizer05	the absolutely foolproof method as described in wiki flashing howto: COMBINED, then VANILLA, then COMBINED again	14:39
deepy	is there any twitter client that works?	14:39
DocScrutinizer05	~flashing	14:39
infobot	methinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	14:39
DocScrutinizer05	the symptom is caused by incomplete or borked optification during first-boot	14:40
deepy	also, why does my terminal stop working after ssh drops? nothing happens when I hit enter	14:40
DocScrutinizer05	hm? inisde ssh?	14:40
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DocScrutinizer05	inside*	14:41
deepy	no, in ash. I can still type etc, but nothing happens when I hit enter	14:43
kerum	DocScrutinizer05: looks like it works, ty :) but there's no wallpaper on the desktop, could something be missing?	14:45
kerum	widgets are there though	14:45
kerum	and photos just crashed on me	14:45
kerum	every application crashes	14:46
DocScrutinizer05	strange	14:46
DocScrutinizer05	sounds to me like flashing failed	14:47
DocScrutinizer05	kerum: did you read the complete webpage http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware ?	14:48
kerum	yeah, a few times	14:48
DocScrutinizer05	did you follow the foolproof procedure under "troubleshooting" ?	14:49
kerum	doing it now	14:49
kerum	it's booting now, those progression dots	14:54
kerum	i flashed combined -> vanilla -> combined with -R parameter	14:55
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kerum	wallpaper is here now...	14:56
kerum	microb started too :)	14:56
kerum	ty	14:56
kerum	seems like that's it	14:56
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DocScrutinizer05	yw	15:01
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DocScrutinizer05	deepy: ssh known to lockup sometimes. killing it from a second shell or closing the complete xterm might be the only two measures to "recover" then	15:37
DocScrutinizer05	nevertheless I'd first try ^C and ~.	15:37
DocScrutinizer05	if both don't help, try ^Q then ^D. Then kill or close	15:38
DocScrutinizer05	this is a bug in ssh seen on "standard" environments (No maemo involved) as well	15:39
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DocScrutinizer05	for the record: don't use -R parameter, it at best is useless. Worst case breaks your flashing	15:47
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DocScrutinizer05	the foolproof procedure is robust enough to cope with it nevertheless, but better you don't use it	15:48
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deepy	DocScrutinizer05: it's not ssh, it's after ssh dies	16:08
deepy	I can do ^C and it puts me on the new line, but I can't hit enter	16:09
deepy	if I so SHIFT+ENTER it prints MO	16:09
deepy	I'd see 'connection to xyz lost' and then I'd be unable to hit enter	16:09
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zemmy	[11:09:41] <DocScrutinizer05> zammy: that's basically rather simple - when you know how uBoot works	16:20
zemmy	but I don't	16:20
Wizzup	ooh, colours	16:21
DocScrutinizer05	deepy: no idea	16:22
DocScrutinizer05	try typing "reset<ENTER>" blindly	16:22
Wizzup	xoff / xon?	16:22
DocScrutinizer05	zemmy: I can't give instructions in IRC how to do it	16:22
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zemmy	DocScrutinizer05, is U-Boot with kernel and with penguin funny icon or whitout that's uboot-pr13?	16:31
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zemmy	alright understood	16:39
zemmy	the penguin icon one	16:39
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JoHnY	Hello there... Is there any way how to check if there is a SIP call in progress in maemo on n900 through dbus? checking for voice call is pretty simple but how can I do it for SIP?	17:19
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zemmy	ah for NSA spies	17:21
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zemmy	killall rtcom-call-ui	17:22
DocScrutinizer05	lol	17:23
DocScrutinizer05	JoHnY: I think you need to monitor dbus	17:23
zemmy	><	17:23
JoHnY	hmm, so there is no simple dbus-send command that can check for a SIP call in progress like for regular calls?	17:24
zemmy	maybe starhash enabler is useful	17:26
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DocScrutinizer05	I'd think a sip call is a "regular" call	17:27
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DocScrutinizer05	no, *#-ena is completely unrelated to this	17:27
JoHnY	DocScrutinizer05: well, no, dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.csd.Call /com/nokia/csd/call/1 com.nokia.csd.Call.Instance.GetStatus reports 0 while in SIP call	17:28
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zemmy	I never tested that *# enabler stuff	17:28
DocScrutinizer05	sure, csd is about modem/GSM only	17:28
DocScrutinizer05	you need to ask rtcom or telepathy	17:29
DocScrutinizer05	actually telepathy-sofiasip is handling SIP calls	17:29
zemmy	anyway I find in app manager dbus-script-settings	17:29
zemmy	anyway I find in app manager dbus-scripts-settings	17:29
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JoHnY	by the way where can I find some reference for all those dbus interfaces?	17:30
iguano	http://www.theweeklypay.com/index.php?share=19844/	17:30
DocScrutinizer05	iguano: eh??	17:30
iguano	sorry	17:31
zemmy	TROLLL	17:31
iguano	nevermind	17:31
DocScrutinizer05	JoHnY: there's a listing of all known dbus interfaces on wiki	17:31
iguano	yeap	17:31
zemmy	shame on iguano	17:31
iguano	:(	17:32
DocScrutinizer05	and there's http://www.cncmods.net/files/dbus/	17:32
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zemmy	cool dbus-scripts-settings is useful for completely customize and add new actions or events to the all swithces	17:34
DocScrutinizer05	yes	17:35
JoHnY	I'll check that, thanks	17:35
zemmy	but does not handle already known dbus settings...	17:36
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DocScrutinizer05	though particularly switch handling is braindamaged in freedesktop.org (the place where dbus gets defined), since the dbus message usually doesn't tell if switch got closed or opened, just that it changed	17:36
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DocScrutinizer05	I argued with the freedesktop.org guys and they exlained that's a deliberate design decision, NFC what those dudes are smoking	17:37
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jaska	styrofoam.	17:40
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Pali	maemo using telepathy for all IM/CALL stuff	18:04
Pali	SIP is also using telepathy (telepathy-sofiasip)	18:04
Pali	telepathy using only dbus for communication	18:05
Pali	all telepathy API is open	18:05
Pali	JoHnY: better ask telepathy people how to check if there is active voice SIP call	18:06
Pali	telepathy on n900 is same as on desktop	18:06
JoHnY	ok	18:15
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DocScrutinizer05	Woody14619: @all: I think all ITT-karma should be updated meanwhile	18:25
DocScrutinizer05	at least the rate of updates went down to 2 users/day, so obviously the update job doesn't find many users with incorrect karma that needs updating	18:28
DocScrutinizer05	which should mean all users' karma is up to date	18:29
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DocScrutinizer05	yup, I'm watching one user account that got updated early after we fixed ITT-karma, and he seen a second update yesterday	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	so we've completed one whole round through user base	18:33
sono	guys, what should i replce microb with?	18:33
sono	if i should	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	replace? nothing	18:33
sono	well s/replace/use instead	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	maemo will blow chunks when removing microb	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	there's opera and some weird version of FF	18:34
sono	thx :)	18:34
DocScrutinizer05	yw	18:34
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cehteh	microb is slow enough, and i still havent found a snappier featureful browser	19:04
cehteh	dillo and other lightweight ones might be faster, but lacking javascript and other features	19:04
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sono	opera-mobile seems snappy enough. i just needed something that google still "supports" for some workstuff	19:13
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DocScrutinizer05	try thumb	19:18
DocScrutinizer05	~thumb	19:18
infobot	it has been said that cssu-thumb is <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597	19:18
DocScrutinizer05	however learn about the implications and complications when it comes to mainenance of your system when thumb installed	19:20
DocScrutinizer05	you don't want to have to boot with a stock kernel, ever	19:20
DocScrutinizer05	by whatever screwed method, be it uBoot or rescueOS, or a partial reflash	19:21
DocScrutinizer05	s/screwed/twisted/.	19:24
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ruskie	http://linuxgizmos.com/first-tizen-tablet-ships/	19:28
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sono	i will hopefully get around to checking out thumb this weekend	19:35
sono	it is on the queue... somewhere around #y	19:35
sono	#6	19:35
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bindi	DocScrutinizer05: hi	20:04
bindi	http://xlobby.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/ipod-zune-4-conductor-wiring-chart1.jpg which pins do i want to use again?	20:04
DocScrutinizer05	R2 R3	20:05
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Sysaxed	ctrl > in emacs :DD	20:30
Sysaxed	that requires me to press ctrl blue shift b	20:30
Sysaxed	does anybody know any trick to make that kind of things easier?	20:30
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DocScrutinizer05	well, blue and shift should be sticky, but I honestly doubt that N900 kbd doesn't act up on 4-key rollover	20:39
DocScrutinizer05	it already has issues with 3-key rollover	20:39
Sysaxed	ctrl blue shift b actually works	20:40
DocScrutinizer05	maybe.	20:40
Sysaxed	what do you mean by "should be sticky" ?	20:41
DocScrutinizer05	but it for sure has side effects	20:41
Sysaxed	is there any way to do it?	20:41
Sysaxed	maybe with other keys besides b ?	20:41
DocScrutinizer05	blue, shift, ctrl+b	20:41
Sysaxed	yeah, but this does not work, any way to make it work?	20:42
DocScrutinizer05	low level kbd driver is closed source afaik	20:42
Sysaxed	ah kk	20:42
DocScrutinizer05	double-blue as well as double-shift should lock both keys	20:43
DocScrutinizer05	while a single press, only makes it sticky for next "normal" key you press	20:43
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DocScrutinizer05	if it doesn't work, then emacs is using raw keycodes or whatever	20:44
Sysaxed	yeah, does not work	20:45
DocScrutinizer05	try the keys that would be the right ones on qwerty (US) layout	20:46
DocScrutinizer05	or remap in emacs	20:48
DocScrutinizer05	on US keybd there's no hw > key	20:49
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DocScrutinizer05	I'd say "use xev to check" but... :-/	20:58
DocScrutinizer05	actually I wonder where the heck xev been left behind and not got built for maemo	20:59
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Sysaxed	DocScrutinizer05: I have some keys remapped. My configuration is pretty close to the one suggested by user vi	21:08
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DocScrutinizer05	ohdamn! tsunami in fukushima	21:12
DocScrutinizer05	announced for right now	21:13
Defiant	srsly?	21:13
sono	o.o	21:13
DocScrutinizer05	as seriously as german tv can be	21:13
wmarone_	more than just fukushima	21:13
Defiant	DocScrutinizer05: channel?	21:13
DocScrutinizer05	earthquake 7.0 an hour ago	21:13
wmarone_	it's the entire coastline that got hit in 2011	21:13
DocScrutinizer05	ARD	21:14
DocScrutinizer05	wmarone_: sure	21:14
DocScrutinizer05	tsunami max height: 1m	21:14
Sysaxed	what?? Again??	21:14
Sysaxed	poor Japan	21:14
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	21:15
wmarone_	fortunately the quake was nowhere near as strong	21:15
DocScrutinizer05	7.0 they said	21:15
wmarone_	nowhere near a 9.0	21:16
DocScrutinizer05	which is ~1/10	21:16
DocScrutinizer05	ooh, 1/100 then	21:16
wmarone_	1/100	21:16
wmarone_	swell in 2011 was 30m	21:16
wmarone_	still dangerous and will suck, but still	21:17
DocScrutinizer05	yep	21:17
DocScrutinizer05	and fukushima is "naked" now	21:17
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DocScrutinizer05	they can't keep their watertanks sealed even on nice days without tsunami	21:19
sono	6.8, no damage expected	21:27
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bindi	ok DocScrutinizer05, i did the soldering now	21:27
bindi	any terminal command i can use to debug if the mute button works?	21:27
DocScrutinizer05	yeah, 7.0, advisory but no alarm, no damage expected, except that they evacuated all workers at fukushima plant	21:28
DocScrutinizer05	bindi: I guess some sysnode should show if button pressed or not, but it needs correct audio profile active so micbias voltage is provided. check the tno thread I pointed you at, a few days ago	21:30
bindi	sec	21:30
DocScrutinizer05	or you simply use dialer and call an arbitrary number, and see if you can end the call by pressing the button	21:30
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DocScrutinizer05	or accept an inbound call by pressing button	21:31
DocScrutinizer05	both are standard functions	21:32
DocScrutinizer05	openmediaplayer skips to next song on button-press	21:32
DocScrutinizer05	at least I heard it does	21:32
bindi	i dont have a sim in it	21:34
bindi	os.system('run-standalone.sh dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteDialog string:'Hey, you pressed the headset button!.' uint32:0 string:'Yeh' 2> /dev/null 1> /dev/null')	21:34
bindi	i uncommented this, pressed the button.. nothing	21:35
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bindi	it does say a headset is connected	21:35
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bindi	hm	21:42
bindi	http://pastebin.com/A6Ki3x94	21:43
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sixwheeledbeast	do you really need /dev/null ?	21:44
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bindi	it's the default line	21:45
bindi	fixed	21:46
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bindi	i tried "echo moo >> /home/user/nappi.log"	21:49
bindi	nothing happens when i press the button :p	21:49
DocScrutinizer05	err	21:50
DocScrutinizer05	toldya you need the right audio profile to power micbias	21:50
DocScrutinizer05	this will only happen when some app tries "recording"	21:51
DocScrutinizer05	refer to the thread I pointed you at, it deals with exactly this issue	21:51
bindi	oh	21:52
bindi	ok	21:52
DocScrutinizer05	you as well could use alsa to enable micbias, but don't ask me which mixer control and how to stop PA from interfering	21:53
DocScrutinizer05	try recorder	21:53
bindi	what's pa?	21:53
DocScrutinizer05	~PA	21:53
infobot	somebody said pa was PAY ATTENTION!!!!!	21:53
DocScrutinizer05	idiot bot	21:53
bindi	lol	21:53
DocScrutinizer05	pukeaudio err pulseaudio	21:54
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DocScrutinizer05	aka ped, the policy enforcer daemon	21:55
DocScrutinizer05	completely obscure stuff	21:55
DocScrutinizer05	nokia thought users shouldn't mess with their audio config :-/	21:56
bindi	is recorder a default app? :p	21:56
bindi	apparently not	21:56
DocScrutinizer05	not exactly	21:56
bindi	man apt is slow on n90	21:56
bindi	n900	21:57
bindi	well, i used recorder, and recorder something	21:58
bindi	pressed the button, nada	21:58
bindi	i tested if with multimeter that the button works, it does short pins r2 and r3 when pressed	21:59
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DocScrutinizer05	check if voltage on the switch	22:05
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DocScrutinizer05	also check if the headset symbol shoing up in systray	22:06
bindi	it does show up	22:06
DocScrutinizer05	you probably should use openmediaplayer	22:08
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Pali	DocScrutinizer05, bindi: for working jack bias alsa switch in maemo you need CSSU	22:50
DocScrutinizer05	o.O	22:51
Pali	because some stupid maemo daemon disabling jack bias if gsm audio call is not activated	22:51
Pali	you should remember how I disassmbled that prolog code...	22:51
DocScrutinizer05	uh?	22:51
DocScrutinizer05	do you say headset button doesn't work for SIP calls?	22:52
DocScrutinizer05	and doesn't work on OMP when no CSSU to support it?	22:52
Pali	do not remember, but I you can bet that it not working....	22:52
Pali	yes, it does not work on OMP without CSSU	22:52
sixwheeledbeast	CSSU testing only IIRC?	22:53
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Pali	sixwheeledbeast: do not know if only CSSU-T	22:58
sixwheeledbeast	It's feature I lack on CSSU-S with OMP	22:59
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Pali	sixwheeledbeast: ask chem\|st when he update that in CSSU-S	23:00
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sixwheeledbeast	mmm.. waiting for a CSSU-S update for a while now. Also there's still a bug with hildon-desktop rotation with CSSU-S I reported an age ago...	23:02
timeless	DocScrutinizer05: you're more or less correct	23:03
timeless	the problem is that something like "Play" can have 10 different meanings	23:03
timeless	so if you use _("Play") then sometimes you want "I went to the Play by Shakespeare", and sometimes you want "Play this movie" and sometimes you want "Play this game"	23:04
timeless	and while those all happen to be the same word / concept in English, it's often not the case in other languages	23:04
timeless	technically you can use a <context> thing w/ get text, but it's a PITA	23:05
timeless	another fun case is "OK" or "Off" or "Cancel" or "On"	23:05
DocScrutinizer05	less of a pita than tana_fi_hmbutt	23:05
timeless	in different parts of the UI, some languages might want a different concept	23:05
DocScrutinizer05	I'm perfectly fine with "OK_(0073)"	23:06
DocScrutinizer05	or "sfil_app_name"	23:07
DocScrutinizer05	same nonsense	23:07
DocScrutinizer05	"filemanager_(01)" is completely equivalent, function-wise	23:08
DocScrutinizer05	check Qt linguist	23:09
DocScrutinizer05	timeless: is mxr.maemo.org yours?	23:09
DocScrutinizer05	(linguist: I did the complete German translation for twinklephone and managed/driven the complete L10N, so I've seen all those issues)	23:11
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timeless	yeah	23:26
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timeless	DocScrutinizer05: oh, Qt uses <context> so this is less of an issue for Qt	23:26
timeless	it's specifically that the get text api is rather poor	23:27
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timeless	anyway, have a good weekend	23:28
DocScrutinizer05	timeless: MXR??	23:30
DocScrutinizer05	timeless: it's down, we would maybe like to move it to maemo infra when it can't get fixed	23:31
timeless	oh	23:31
timeless	um, the box had its ip changed	23:31
DocScrutinizer05	dang!	23:31
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timeless	and i didn't figure out the contact for maemo.org	23:32
timeless	i think	23:32
timeless	either that, or it's actually down	23:32
DocScrutinizer05	DNS,aster is Nokia still	23:32
timeless	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/	23:32
DocScrutinizer05	a PITA to manage DNS records	23:32
timeless	is there a contact to get the dns record fixed?	23:32
DocScrutinizer05	harly	23:32
timeless	the host name above is the right ip address	23:32
DocScrutinizer05	hardly even	23:32
timeless	so add 66.33.208.86 mxr.maemo.org to etc/hosts :)	23:33
timeless	please feel free to try to figure out who to contact @nokia to get it fixed	23:33
DocScrutinizer05	ok, seems many users never ever heard of mxr, so maybe we get away with just using new IP resp URL for now	23:33
DocScrutinizer05	yeah	23:33
DocScrutinizer05	k, will try to do that	23:34
timeless	but the line in hosts or a fix in dns is worth it	23:34
timeless	note that the web server behaves slightly different between being addressed as timeless.justdave.net and mxr.maemo.org :)	23:34
DocScrutinizer05	ooh yeah	23:34
DocScrutinizer05	that funny thing	23:34
DocScrutinizer05	seen that	23:34
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	23:35
DocScrutinizer05	wiki and bugs is same	23:35
DocScrutinizer05	I might recall it's called vhost, eh?	23:35
timeless	sort of	23:36
timeless	technically yes	23:36
timeless	but practically the magic is in mxr itself	23:36
* timeless thinks		23:36
timeless	or maybe it was the vhost	23:36
* timeless can't remember which magic was which		23:36
timeless	anyway, have a good weekend	23:37
timeless	and thanks in advance for trying to get the dns fixed	23:37
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