IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-09-26

*** oldtopman has joined #maemo		00:00
*** oldtopman has quit IRC		00:01
*** oldtopman has joined #maemo		00:01
*** sunny_s has joined #maemo		00:03
*** Natch_v has joined #maemo		00:04
*** Natch has quit IRC		00:05
*** Natch_v is now known as Natch		00:05
*** ketas has quit IRC		00:13
*** ketas has joined #maemo		00:13
*** FReaper-PC has joined #maemo		00:15
*** FlameReaper-PC has quit IRC		00:19
*** robotanarchy has quit IRC		00:19
*** robotanarchy has joined #maemo		00:20
*** odin_ has joined #maemo		00:35
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		00:36
*** goldkatze has quit IRC		00:36
*** Pali has quit IRC		00:37
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		00:38
*** marcello_NA has quit IRC		00:39
*** beford has joined #maemo		00:39
*** mvp_ has quit IRC		00:40
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo		00:41
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		00:41
*** mvp_ has quit IRC		00:42
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		00:42
*** beford has quit IRC		00:42
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo		00:43
DocScrutinizer05	~ham	00:43
infobot	ham is, like, Hildon Application Manager. Slow like molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does	00:43
*** beford has joined #maemo		00:44
DocScrutinizer05	~literal ham	00:44
infobot	"#maemo ham" is "Hildon Application Manager. Slow like molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does"	00:44
DocScrutinizer05	infobot: no, #maemo ham is Hildon Application Manager. Slow as molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does	00:45
infobot	DocScrutinizer05: okay	00:45
*** ebzzry has joined #maemo		00:48
*** ebzzry__ has quit IRC		00:50
*** Martix_ has joined #maemo		00:57
*** hardfalcon has quit IRC		00:57
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		00:58
*** perlite_ has joined #maemo		00:59
*** perlite has quit IRC		01:00
*** perlite_ is now known as perlite		01:01
*** ebzzry_ has joined #maemo		01:04
*** ebzzry has quit IRC		01:06
*** Venusaur has joined #maemo		01:11
*** mvp_ has quit IRC		01:14
*** nox- has joined #maemo		01:19
*** shentey has quit IRC		01:20
*** beford has quit IRC		01:21
*** ebzzry__ has joined #maemo		01:22
*** ebzzry_ has quit IRC		01:23
*** discopig has quit IRC		01:29
*** lizardo has quit IRC		01:32
*** florian has quit IRC		01:37
*** louisdk has quit IRC		01:42
*** Martix_ has quit IRC		01:47
*** xes has quit IRC		01:47
*** dos1 has quit IRC		01:48
*** shamus has quit IRC		01:53
*** shamus has joined #maemo		01:54
*** discopig has joined #maemo		01:56
DocScrutinizer05	~xyawn	02:03
infobot	somebody said xyawn was coffee	02:03
*** OkropNick has quit IRC		02:08
*** DrCode has quit IRC		02:08
*** DrCode has joined #maemo		02:10
*** sunny_s has quit IRC		02:14
*** freemangordon has joined #maemo		02:23
*** freemangordon_ has quit IRC		02:23
*** DrCode has quit IRC		02:24
*** DrCode has joined #maemo		02:26
*** dos1 has joined #maemo		02:40
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC		02:42
*** hardfalcon has quit IRC		02:45
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		02:48
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		02:51
*** hardfalcon has quit IRC		02:55
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		02:57
*** hardfalcon has quit IRC		03:01
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		03:07
*** Milhouse has quit IRC		03:19
*** LauRoman has quit IRC		03:26
*** jonwil has joined #maemo		03:30
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		03:32
*** Milhouse has joined #maemo		03:32
*** dos1 has quit IRC		03:52
*** konelix has quit IRC		03:58
*** sledges has quit IRC		04:03
*** sledges has joined #maemo		04:03
*** sledges has joined #maemo		04:03
*** hardfalcon has quit IRC		04:04
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		04:04
*** mschlens has joined #maemo		04:07
*** mschlens_ has quit IRC		04:11
*** zemmy has quit IRC		04:15
*** hardfalcon has quit IRC		04:16
*** mschlens has quit IRC		04:31
*** mschlens has joined #maemo		04:31
*** nox- has quit IRC		04:31
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		04:33
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		04:35
*** nox- has joined #maemo		04:35
*** hardfalcon has quit IRC		04:36
*** beford has joined #maemo		04:36
*** Humpelstilzchen has joined #maemo		04:37
*** Defiant has quit IRC		04:39
*** beford has quit IRC		04:55
*** triggerhappy has joined #maemo		04:57
*** HRH_H_Crab has quit IRC		05:05
*** HRH_H_Crab has joined #maemo		05:12
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo		06:01
*** lxp has quit IRC		06:03
*** nox- has quit IRC		06:10
*** maybeWTF has joined #maemo		06:30
*** croppa has joined #maemo		06:32
*** maybeHere has quit IRC		06:34
*** DHR has quit IRC		06:50
*** oldtopman has quit IRC		06:52
*** Hurrian has quit IRC		06:56
*** utanapischti has quit IRC		07:10
*** Cor-Ai has quit IRC		07:10
*** utanapischti has joined #maemo		07:13
*** cybertheque has quit IRC		07:15
*** Kabouik has quit IRC		07:46
*** VDVsx has quit IRC		07:49
*** goldkatze has joined #maemo		08:00
*** ColdFyre has quit IRC		08:06
*** Cor-Ai has joined #maemo		08:07
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo		08:08
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo		08:11
*** SmilybOrg is now known as Guest7847		08:11
*** Cor-Ai has quit IRC		08:14
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC		08:15
*** Cor-Ai has joined #maemo		08:17
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo		08:44
*** ColdFyre has joined #maemo		09:01
*** topro has joined #maemo		09:05
*** freemangordon_ has joined #maemo		09:13
*** freemangordon has quit IRC		09:13
*** DrCode has quit IRC		09:13
*** keithzg has quit IRC		09:13
*** keithzg has joined #maemo		09:14
*** x29a has quit IRC		09:14
*** DrCode has joined #maemo		09:16
*** x29a has joined #maemo		09:22
*** bef0rd has quit IRC		09:23
*** qwazix has quit IRC		09:54
*** XDS2010_ has quit IRC		09:54
*** qwazix has joined #maemo		09:58
*** zammy has joined #maemo		10:01
*** jmlich has joined #maemo		10:03
*** jmlich has joined #maemo		10:03
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC		10:17
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo		10:20
*** lexik has joined #maemo		10:31
*** lexik has quit IRC		10:35
*** LauRoman has quit IRC		10:39
*** florian_kc is now known as florian		10:44
*** dos1 has joined #maemo		10:51
*** jrayhawk has quit IRC		10:51
*** dos1 has quit IRC		11:03
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo		11:05
*** Martix_ has joined #maemo		11:07
*** sunny_s has joined #maemo		11:12
*** wmarone has quit IRC		11:22
*** wmarone has joined #maemo		11:22
*** lexik has joined #maemo		11:23
*** xes has joined #maemo		11:32
*** arcean has joined #maemo		11:33
*** croppa has quit IRC		11:36
*** croppa has joined #maemo		11:39
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo		11:39
*** jmlich has quit IRC		11:42
*** jmlich has joined #maemo		11:42
*** jmlich has quit IRC		11:47
*** jmlich has joined #maemo		11:47
*** jrayhawk has joined #maemo		11:53
*** XDS2010_ has joined #maemo		11:56
*** Martix_ has quit IRC		12:08
*** lexik has quit IRC		12:11
*** shentey has joined #maemo		12:20
*** shentey_ has joined #maemo		12:23
*** shentey__ has joined #maemo		12:25
*** shentey has quit IRC		12:26
*** shentey_ has quit IRC		12:26
*** shentey has joined #maemo		12:27
*** jrayhawk has quit IRC		12:27
*** shentey__ has quit IRC		12:29
*** shentey__ has joined #maemo		12:30
*** shentey has quit IRC		12:33
*** jrayhawk has joined #maemo		12:34
*** shentey__ has quit IRC		12:41
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		12:45
*** amospalla has joined #maemo		12:47
*** trx has quit IRC		13:06
*** trx has joined #maemo		13:08
*** trx has joined #maemo		13:08
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC		13:12
*** triggerhappy has joined #maemo		13:14
*** dos1 has joined #maemo		13:21
*** topro has quit IRC		13:21
*** lizardo has joined #maemo		13:29
*** topro has joined #maemo		13:40
*** DaReaper has joined #maemo		13:45
DaReaper	The Neo900's price is way too costly	13:45
DaReaper	if the raspberry pi can cost so less	13:45
DaReaper	I wonder why would 300 Euro be the minimum price	13:45
DaReaper	it should probably be around inside 100 Euros	13:45
jon_y	DaReaper: only if you can sell 1 million on launch day	13:46
DaReaper	That would be a really bad marketing strategy if you even thought of the 1 Million milestone	13:46
jon_y	I doubt Neo900 can do that without any massive propaganda efforts	13:46
Wizzup	I smell a troll	13:47
jon_y	not to mention it lacks the political weight to break into carrier controlled networks	13:47
DaReaper	Comparing the actual hardware features with that of the N900, it's way overpriced if it has to start at that base.	13:48
jon_y	DaReaper: :business:	13:49
jon_y	no one is going to do low quantity productions	13:50
kerio	DaReaper: on the other hand, that's pretty much how much it'll cost to make	13:50
jon_y	economies of scale hardly has any effect here	13:50
kerio	jon_y: well	13:50
kerio	it's precisely that effect	13:50
DaReaper	@Kerio there should be an open petition as to disclosure of the components price and the labor charges before coming to a conclusion of that sort	13:51
jon_y	kerio: we do have the numbers to make manufacturers happy?	13:51
kerio	of course not	13:51
kerio	no scale, no economy	13:51
jon_y	yeah, precisely	13:51
DaReaper	Usually I'd agree on the bumper price at the start of the launch and a gradual decrease to build brand image	13:52
jon_y	DaReaper: the manufacturers tell you NOPE	13:52
kerio	yeah	13:52
kerio	assuming you have a capital and a brand image to build	13:52
jon_y	raspberry pi too had its fair share of problems	13:52
DaReaper	but then a base of 300 Euro gives really hazy picture of the pricing strategy here	13:52
jon_y	damn near impossible to get anybody to build it	13:52
DaReaper	But then problems are a part of business and they're doing still well with their current price	13:53
kerio	sheevaplug > rpi	13:53
jon_y	yeah well, these things hardly have any manufacturers picking them up	13:53
jon_y	I don't think most manufacturers would even bat an eye if the profit margin is so low	13:54
jon_y	well, Chinese factories might pick it up	13:54
DaReaper	Well if the Chinese can do it like you're saying, then if the manufacturers plan to price more despite them already achieving the goal of profit.. it's overpricing	13:55
DaReaper	and by Chinese it's not always bad quality as the image has sparkled.	13:56
jon_y	DaReaper: chinese are willing to do it if you order 1 billion units	13:57
jon_y	they don't mind ultra low margins	13:58
jon_y	as long as numbers make up for it	13:58
DaReaper	Usually the Chinese weren't expecting china phones to be sold elsewhere in the world at the start, they didn't have a 1 Billion unit to be sold goal set. It was how they expanded into the market.	13:59
*** mkaindl has joined #maemo		13:59
DaReaper	I'm taking china phones as an example to this.	13:59
jon_y	sure, if you don't mind Neo900 sold in China only :)	14:00
jon_y	you'd have to compete with the other million android phones	14:00
jon_y	DaReaper: china phones are mostly variations of each other	14:02
DaReaper	Neo900 has a good open market and it has realized the needs of the people, they've got the hardware requirements. But then I fear if they were to be geographically focused, they'd not be targeting the large customer base. Cause those who've used the N900 would have a good idea of this.	14:02
jon_y	rather than completely new builds	14:02
jon_y	doing something completely new like the Neo900 has enormous setup costs	14:03
jon_y	basically, you give the specs and they design it for you	14:04
DaReaper	Also, considering China phones... Neo900 can do the very same.. but ofcourse the target customers would only increase over time once they realize it's potential.	14:04
jon_y	that is a very very optimistic way of thinking	14:04
DaReaper	Isn't this based on the gta04?	14:04
jon_y	yes, with some modifications iirc	14:05
DaReaper	Hmm okay, so basically they have the blueprint of this and also gta04 has been kind of a prototype base for it to start with	14:05
DaReaper	So I wonder if the manufacturing costs would be high considering the product is already existent and is aware of the market and should have learnt of it by now.	14:06
DaReaper	But ofcourse this is just my personal opinion	14:08
DaReaper	was kind of uncomfortable after I noticed the prices on the poll.	14:09
kerio	uncomfortable with what?	14:09
DaReaper	The prices.	14:09
kerio	well do you own a production facility?	14:09
kerio	or know of a way to get a better price	14:10
DaReaper	No.	14:10
kerio	do you think that there's malice behind that price?	14:10
DaReaper	I could have ideas, might voice it there.	14:10
kerio	do you think that there's incompetence, and are able to provide a better alternative?	14:11
DaReaper	No my thoughts weren't directed to anything of that sort.	14:11
dos1	DaReaper: "Comparing the actual hardware features with that of the N900, it's way overpriced if it has to start at that base."	14:11
DaReaper	No.	14:11
jon_y	I'd be willing to pay 700 Euros too, if my salary was in Euros	14:11
dos1	those are the production costs in small quantities	14:11
kerio	yes, it would be better if it was a lot cheaper	14:12
kerio	but as it stands, it's not possible	14:12
dos1	there's no way to make it cheaper without investing lots of money in it which you may never see again, because of small target niche	14:12
dos1	to make it cheaper, you have to manufacture thousands or even milions of them in advance	14:12
DaReaper	Okay, but it would still depend on how you plan those investments	14:13
dos1	you need to actually find someone with that money	14:13
DaReaper	The target could be expanded and this depends on the price and in turn if you can smartly invest it can be reduced.	14:14
dos1	"can be" - sure it can	14:14
jon_y	so did all the other niche Linux phones	14:14
dos1	if you have millions euros to spend on R&D, marketing, PR and relations with carieers	14:14
jon_y	you don't see manufacturers jumping up and down to build them	14:14
jon_y	or fanboys everywhere waiting in line	14:14
dos1	unless we get thousands of preorders in advance, we don't have that money	14:15
DaReaper	Yes, but that brings in the factor of what system software it runs on	14:15
dos1	DaReaper: you're free to invest your milions into Neo900 development	14:16
dos1	I'll be happy to see it and future projects like that dominating the mobile market	14:16
jon_y	how do you judge the factor if there are none to begin with?	14:16
DaReaper	Okay, so does there stand a chance where if there were more preorders unlike the 1 Billion goal set, there could be a reduction in price?	14:16
jon_y	right now, there are no Neo900 units for customers to feedback on	14:16
jon_y	sure, if manufacturers are happy to do so to ramp up numbers	14:17
jon_y	you promise them 1billion more units if they can reduce price	14:17
jon_y	I'm sure they'd be happy to make another billion if it means more money for them	14:17
dos1	prices can be reduced when there'll be interest on billion level	14:18
DaReaper	I couldn't judge the factor with none available but then you could categorize the best needed based on the target audience.	14:18
dos1	sure, we can say "it will cost 100 EUR, we just need 1 billion preorders!"	14:18
jon_y	DaReaper: not going to work if you only have that big of an audience	14:19
DaReaper	What if maybe, a marketing agenda was created to have a cheap device just like rpi does?	14:19
dos1	but really? will we get 1 billion preorders?	14:19
DaReaper	could there be a possibility then maybe without expecting 1 billion preorders you'd still have a lower price	14:19
jon_y	no	14:19
kerio	ok, i'll preorder 900 millions	14:19
*** n900-dk has quit IRC		14:19
jon_y	nobody has the money for the setup	14:19
dos1	and what then? "sorry, it will cost 600 EUR cause there's not enough interest"	14:19
DaReaper	okay right, so there's no large investment available okay	14:20
dos1	and then 95% of preorders will be canceled	14:20
dos1	and project failed	14:20
dos1	yay	14:20
jon_y	good job guys	14:20
kerio	DaReaper: so far, your only argument is "well maybe it could've been made cheaper somehow"	14:20
dos1	it will be cheaper, if only there'll be enough interest	14:20
dos1	we won't seel it for 700 EUR when there'll be 10k preorders	14:21
jon_y	which is really a chicken and egg problem unless you have BIG MONEY to sink into advertisement	14:21
dos1	s/seel/sell/	14:21
infobot	dos1 meant: we won't sell it for 700 EUR when there'll be 10k preorders	14:21
*** DaReaper_ has joined #maemo		14:23
dos1	but we won't promise pie in the sky from start, just to fail to fulfil this promise later	14:23
dos1	ubuntu edge failed their fundraising campain	14:23
*** DaReaper has quit IRC		14:24
dos1	so I wouldn't set hopes so high for neo900 fundraising abilities in this regard	14:24
*** DaReaper has joined #maemo		14:25
DaReaper	To be honest I wasn't arguing or setting up an argument, I just thought there should have been a reason for the hefty pricing initially and I got to know it. I usually get to hear "Good job guys" after a debate's been won and concluded xD	14:25
DaReaper	But then I'm was of the perspective that maybe the price could be reduced. It's fine anyways. Thanks for solving my query.	14:26
*** DaReaper_ has quit IRC		14:27
*** jonwil has quit IRC		14:34
*** frafl has joined #maemo		14:35
*** DaReaper has quit IRC		14:37
*** shentey has joined #maemo		14:46
hahlo	peaceful again	14:46
*** dhbiker has quit IRC		14:48
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo		14:49
*** shentey has quit IRC		14:49
*** Hurrian has quit IRC		15:00
* psycho_oreos skims through the chat buffer, notices something interesting. Reads from start till end and was amazed someone else had similar sort of thing as he did. :o		15:00
psycho_oreos	So much for "six degrees of separation.".	15:01
jon_y	what did you do, psycho_oreos?	15:01
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo		15:02
*** uen\| has joined #maemo		15:03
psycho_oreos	jon_y, I didn't do anything. When I read about the prices of Neo900 that people were willing to pay and how much it will cost. I was thinking about potentially outsourcing the work to Chinese. I started thinking more of pros and cons but before I wanted to make a reply (on that thread), I decided to not go ahead with my thought as it may enrage some hardware engineers/designers.	15:03
psycho_oreos	I had that sort of idea weeks ago and then all of the sudden whilst I'm in other channel, the very same topic cropped up behind my back.	15:05
jon_y	well, it isn't very practical to push it to the Chinese if you have a custome design without big money incentives	15:06
*** uen has quit IRC		15:06
*** uen\| is now known as uen		15:06
dos1	BTW. one of the great things in GTA04 manufacturing process that Neo900 will inherit is that it's produced in proper working conditions	15:08
dos1	it's manufactured in Bavaria, Germany	15:08
psycho_oreos	Yeah I wasn't thinking about that but more-so on the fact that when N900 existed, the Chinese wanted to create a knock-off clone of the N900. Obviously that wasn't a success but if let's say that this new design (we at maemo.org and openmoko.org) have been collaborating on a new device that supersedes N900. We will provide you schematics, interested?	15:09
dos1	no children are harmed during production of OpenPhoenux phones	15:09
psycho_oreos	I mean that might somewhat persuade them a little.	15:09
psycho_oreos	Yeah that's the other thing that basically stopped me wanting to respond to that thread with my ideas.	15:10
dos1	I think that's good thing that goes really well with the spirit of freedom in this project	15:10
jon_y	dos1: so when it's out, how do I go about ordering it?	15:10
dos1	jon_y: probably somewhat similar to current GTA04 - https://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04	15:11
jon_y	does it do international orders?	15:11
*** tcohen has quit IRC		15:11
dos1	yup	15:11
*** tcohen_ has joined #maemo		15:11
jon_y	how do I look up shipment costs?	15:12
dos1	maybe there'll be some resellers	15:12
dos1	but it's too early to say for sure	15:12
jon_y	hmm ok	15:13
psycho_oreos	The other thing is that if we restrict it to manufacture strictly at .de. We may also impede on the amount of actual sales. Though of course it's not like as if I have some sort of crystal glass to look into the future and see the outcome of Neo900.	15:13
jon_y	dos1: will be out for Christmas? :)	15:13
psycho_oreos	Sure the quality in .de is no doubt perfect and all but apart from costs of labour and such may amount to lower sales.	15:13
dos1	jon_y: this year? nope	15:13
jon_y	hmm ok, I hope the specs improve next year	15:14
dos1	some 5-6 months from now till release	15:14
jon_y	I was hoping I can get it with my year end bonuses :)	15:14
psycho_oreos	jon_y, it also heavily depends on the developers porting Fremantle UI across.	15:14
psycho_oreos	Invite some more coders/reverse engineers then it may happen.	15:15
dos1	production of hardware can happen independently to fremantle port	15:15
dos1	it won't ship with fremantle preinstalled	15:15
jon_y	that is fine too, as long it has uboot on it or something	15:16
dos1	but of course, it'd be nice if it'll be already in some working state on release day	15:16
jon_y	so I can boot random binaries off the internet :)	15:16
dos1	jon_y: GTA04 comes with Debian preinstalled	15:16
*** croppa has quit IRC		15:16
jon_y	we could put Debian on the Neo900 too	15:17
dos1	(without any telephony framework installed, but there's FSO in repos)	15:17
dos1	yup	15:17
jon_y	well, if maemo isn't ready by the time it ships	15:17
dos1	anyway, it won't ship with maemo	15:17
dos1	there are some closed blobs that you need to obtain by providing valid N900 IMEI and we probably can't redistribute them with different device	15:18
psycho_oreos	Ahh looks like I was mistaken, I thought Neo900 will only be shipped when Fremantle is ported across.	15:18
dos1	but anyone will be free to download and install it by themselves, so that shouldn't be a big problem	15:19
dos1	psycho_oreos: nope, those are two related, but independent projects	15:19
psycho_oreos	dos1, I guess I stand corrected. :)	15:19
dos1	Neo900 hw will be designed to make Fremantle porting easier, but it doesn't have to wait for it to be finished	15:19
dos1	after all, you may buy Neo900 while not being interested in Maemo at all	15:20
psycho_oreos	I guess in a way to also entice other openmoko users/owners? :)	15:20
dos1	yup	15:21
dos1	Neo900 is a general purpose mobile platform	15:21
dos1	just like GTA04	15:21
jon_y	what do I fill in the tax forms? :)	15:21
jon_y	[x] engineering sample	15:21
dos1	jon_y: sorry, I have no idea about all this tax stuff	15:22
jon_y	I'm kind of worried customs might seize the device	15:22
dos1	I'm from EU, so it won't be a big problem for me to order it from Germany	15:22
jon_y	if I do buy one	15:22
dos1	I hope there'll be some resellers outside of EU to make all this stuff easier	15:22
jon_y	yeah, I'm not in EU	15:22
dos1	as it was with Openmoko	15:23
psycho_oreos	I guess if one's local customs seizes the product, they would probably ask you to briefly describe your purposes, etc.	15:23
psycho_oreos	Chances are, it's unlikely that's ever going to happen unless you bought multiple of the same units and they're all under one name, one address, etc.	15:24
jon_y	probably	15:24
psycho_oreos	Of course customs are usually country/culture specific but I guess most sane ones wouldn't care much.	15:25
* psycho_oreos recalls of the case with MohammadAG when the N950 (yes a N950) was lost in transit.		15:26
jon_y	what happened?	15:27
psycho_oreos	I can't quite remember the whole story but because MohammadAG was shortlisted as one of the many Qt developers to develop programs for the upcoming n9 (at the time). nokia supposedly sent out N950 to all the shortlisted applicants and emailed them the tracking number for each. MohammadAG tracked his but apparently the status kept showing that it was in transit or something.	15:28
*** konelix has joined #maemo		15:29
psycho_oreos	It was about a month before the whole case on waiting was dropped, the conclusion was simply that it was "lost in transit". It could be stolen or confiscated without permission.	15:30
jon_y	it was lost forever?	15:30
psycho_oreos	I think it was yeah, basically forever.	15:31
jon_y	:(	15:31
psycho_oreos	That story by now is way more than a year old, virtually one and a half years ago.	15:32
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC		15:33
psycho_oreos	I haven't been keeping in tab on the story fully at the time, I guess MohammadAG may have sourced another N950 elsewhere or from nokia again (I think). Though whoever stole that N950 is well..	15:35
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo		15:39
psycho_oreos	Hmm.. that also reminds me. dos1, if say Neo900 gets produced and supposedly it would be shipped worldwide (of course after you get people paying for it). Would you also be able add extra requirements? say for example if one were to somehow bypass customs and/or to prevent the device being stolen whilst in transit. Can you like declare that the device was sent as a broken device and have no firmware flashed?	16:05
dos1	psycho_oreos: that might be a bit risky to Goldelico	16:06
psycho_oreos	dos1, nods just thinking of it hypothetically.	16:07
psycho_oreos	I mean like if a customer wants it to be like that for instance.	16:07
* psycho_oreos would honestly hate to order something that is expensive and to not have it in his own hands because of some lowlife person that has to go about their own ways of making lives of others miserable.		16:10
*** Martix_ has joined #maemo		16:14
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		16:15
*** VDVsx has quit IRC		16:24
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo		16:25
*** hardfalcon has joined #maemo		16:29
*** xjiujiu has joined #maemo		16:29
*** auenfx4 has quit IRC		16:29
*** auenfx4 has joined #maemo		16:30
*** lizardo has quit IRC		16:30
*** spaak has joined #maemo		16:32
*** lizardo has joined #maemo		16:32
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		16:40
*** Pali has joined #maemo		16:41
*** bef0rd has quit IRC		16:44
*** kimitake_idle has quit IRC		16:45
*** kimitake has joined #maemo		16:45
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle		16:46
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake		16:47
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle		16:47
*** AndrewX192 has quit IRC		16:47
*** frafl has quit IRC		16:49
*** arcean_ has joined #maemo		16:50
*** arcean has quit IRC		16:52
*** xes_ has joined #maemo		17:03
*** Kabouik has joined #maemo		17:04
*** xes has quit IRC		17:06
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		17:07
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo		17:11
*** N-Mi has joined #maemo		17:11
*** cybertheque has joined #maemo		17:18
*** Kabouik_ has joined #maemo		17:24
*** Kabouik has quit IRC		17:25
*** xjiujiu has quit IRC		17:31
*** jayton4 has joined #maemo		17:36
DocScrutinizer05	we (GolDeliCo) willl send a humble 200 devices. We sure have enough time and love to handle each case very individually	17:37
DocScrutinizer05	I recall we managed to send a few devices to Belarus and to Russia, was real fun	17:38
DocScrutinizer05	basically in the end they were "smuggled" iirc	17:39
DocScrutinizer05	The N900 to PaulFertser for hostmode-kernel (Moskow) was really GREAT fun¡	17:40
DocScrutinizer05	not even Nokia was able to send to a private addr in Moskow, only to corporate addr	17:41
DocScrutinizer05	and then the custums asked for some 200 bucks "processing fee" still	17:41
psycho_oreos	Sending N900 to Russia? o.O is that why there's all those nice Russian sites giving us maemo goodies? :D $200 bucks? hopefully not 200 euros.	17:44
DocScrutinizer05	in the end Paul got a device from RST38h who happens to live in Moskow as well and had one devel device he could pass on, which he imported from a maemo convention he visited, in Finnland	17:44
psycho_oreos	Cool I never knew PaulFertzer was based in Russia.	17:44
DocScrutinizer05	or somesuch went the tale	17:44
*** shentey has joined #maemo		17:46
DocScrutinizer05	yep, Paul lives in Moskow	17:48
psycho_oreos	Damn haha the Russians are crazy. :D	17:50
DocScrutinizer05	Paul will agree wholeheartedly	17:50
*** lizardo has quit IRC		17:51
DocScrutinizer05	he told me a lot of weird stories about his pupils in the EE/CS classes he held	17:51
DocScrutinizer05	s/pupils/students/	17:52
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: he told me a lot of weird stories about his students in the EE/CS classes he held	17:52
*** lizardo has joined #maemo		17:52
psycho_oreos	:o	17:53
psycho_oreos	Sounds like he's an university professor or something.	17:53
DocScrutinizer05	dunno if university or some other educational entity	17:54
psycho_oreos	nods	17:55
DocScrutinizer05	and he's no professor afaik	17:55
psycho_oreos	Ahh but still a lecturer whom seems to also be interested in wireless technologies.	17:55
psycho_oreos	Well wireless, embedded and what have you.	17:56
DocScrutinizer05	not that it makes any difference, particularly not in Russia - there the professors starve just like the beggars	17:56
psycho_oreos	o.O	17:57
DocScrutinizer05	many of the professors had to start a job as taxidriver in the old days when glasnost etc kicked in, iirc	17:58
DocScrutinizer05	to make a living	17:58
DocScrutinizer05	while Moskow is the most expensive town on earth, I heard	17:59
DocScrutinizer05	wird	17:59
DocScrutinizer05	weird even	17:59
DocScrutinizer05	I can't even imagine how life in Moskow might be	18:00
psycho_oreos	Yeah I'm not quite sure how their systems run, but that sounds pretty bad.	18:00
*** Pilke has joined #maemo		18:00
*** valerius has quit IRC		18:02
* psycho_oreos has the song: "Rammstein - Moskau" playing in his head.		18:02
*** valeriusL has quit IRC		18:02
dos1	DocScrutinizer05: we've got some refferals on neo900.org from boards.4chan.org :D	18:07
*** beford has joined #maemo		18:08
ShadowJK	can you tell which board? :)	18:08
dos1	lemme check server logs	18:09
DocScrutinizer05	dos1: nice	18:10
*** shentey has quit IRC		18:10
*** shentey has joined #maemo		18:10
DocScrutinizer05	on a sidenote: some of you still might recall (or even experience every day) the annoying bug in mce that switches off the indicator LED when you lock the device in bright daylight	18:12
* psycho_oreos seems to recall it happening.		18:13
dos1	https://archive.installgentoo.net/g/thread/36955756	18:13
dos1	and https://archive.installgentoo.net/g/thread/36878654	18:15
dos1	threads from 4chan's /g/ with neo900 mentions	18:15
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo		18:15
DocScrutinizer05	in /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so the must be a struct {int a[5][2]; int brightness[6]}	18:16
dos1	https://archive.installgentoo.net/g/thread/36860382	18:16
DocScrutinizer05	with values { {{ 32, 64 } ,{ 100, 1000 } ,{ -1, -1 } ,{ -1, -1 } ,{ -1, -1 } ,}, { 5, 5, 0, 0, 0, 0 }}	18:17
DocScrutinizer05	change the 5, 5, 0, 0 to 5, 5, 5, 0 and this bug should be gone	18:17
*** cybrNaut has quit IRC		18:19
psycho_oreos	Thanks, I'm going to try and note that down. My N900s aren't working properly now. :/ You should post that in a thread or something. :D	18:20
DocScrutinizer05	first 5 is brightness of LED under 32lux, 2nd between 32 and 64 lux, the third for between 100 and 1000lux, and you probably want to change the 4th digit "0" also to "5" for ALS >1000lux	18:21
DocScrutinizer05	so	18:21
DocScrutinizer05	change the 5, 5, 0, 0 to 5, 5, 5, 5 and this bug should be gone	18:21
*** cybrNaut has joined #maemo		18:23
*** florian has quit IRC		18:28
*** dos1 has quit IRC		18:31
*** valeriusL has joined #maemo		18:33
*** jmlich has quit IRC		18:39
*** andre__ has quit IRC		18:40
*** cybertheque has quit IRC		18:41
*** heroux has quit IRC		18:44
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC		18:44
*** valerius has joined #maemo		18:47
*** AndrewX192 has joined #maemo		18:51
*** VDVsx has quit IRC		18:53
*** freemangordon_ is now known as freemangordon		18:55
*** topro has quit IRC		18:57
*** heroux has joined #maemo		19:01
*** rcg has joined #maemo		19:03
*** shentey has quit IRC		19:04
*** shentey has joined #maemo		19:04
*** VDVsx has joined #maemo		19:09
*** shentey has quit IRC		19:10
*** shentey has joined #maemo		19:10
*** a_l_e has joined #maemo		19:14
a_l_e	hi. i have a n900 and i'd like to play a stream coming from mpd...	19:16
a_l_e	... what should i install on the n900?	19:16
a_l_e	the browser tells me that it's an ogg file and offers me to download it.	19:17
a_l_e	the media player tells me that the format is not supported	19:18
psycho_oreos	You need something like extradecoders-support for instance.	19:18
a_l_e	thanks! ... installing it...	19:19
a_l_e	downloading failed :-(	19:19
psycho_oreos	There's a reason why, look for it. It might be in the logs.	19:21
a_l_e	trying to install from the web...	19:23
DocScrutinizer05	"download failed" is not a error report we could help with. Please try to follow psycho_oreos' recommendation and get detals from logs on why it failed	19:24
a_l_e	i'll have a look at the logs if necessary...	19:26
a_l_e	rebooting right now...	19:26
psycho_oreos	Well.. it is necessary.	19:26
a_l_e	well, i've installed through the web... i hope that it has worked that way...	19:27
*** cybrNaut has quit IRC		19:28
*** cybrNaut has joined #maemo		19:28
DocScrutinizer05	ogg-support - Ogg/Vorbis/Flac support for n900	19:28
a_l_e	it didn't work :-()	19:28
a_l_e	uninstalling	19:29
DocScrutinizer05	IroN900:~# apt-cache policy ogg-support	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	ogg-support:	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	Installed: 1.1.1	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	Candidate: 1.1.1	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	Version table:	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	*** 1.1.1 0	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	100 /var/lib/dpkg/status	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	1.1 0	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	1.0.8 0	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	1.0.7~rc1 0	19:30
DocScrutinizer05	500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	1.0.5 0	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	1.0.3 0	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle-1.3/free Packages	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	IroN900:~#	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	dang	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	why did pastebin fail? sorry!	19:31
psycho_oreos	o.O I think there's pastebinit in the maemo.org repository. You can pipe the output of that into pastebinit in the future. :)	19:33
DocScrutinizer05	yeah sure	19:33
DocScrutinizer05	I prefer my desktop means though	19:33
*** louisdk has joined #maemo		19:33
psycho_oreos	Er or maybe not.. awhile ago I had to get it from ubuntu repository.. but I can't remember now anymore.	19:33
psycho_oreos	nods	19:34
DocScrutinizer05	mak in xterm, click the pastebin applet	19:34
*** dos1 has joined #maemo		19:34
DocScrutinizer05	pastebinit braks every 4 months and you need to get the new one from random locations in internet and make the scriptie executable on device	19:35
DocScrutinizer05	breaks, even	19:35
*** _d0t has joined #maemo		19:35
DocScrutinizer05	there's even \| netcat paste.dyndns.org 1234, but that stopped working recently as well	19:36
*** discopig has quit IRC		19:36
*** cybertheque has joined #maemo		19:36
_d0t	hi. Is anyone using a recent kernel on n900? I'm trying to boot 3.10, but it fails at the beginning.	19:36
a_l_e	mmm i think i will try to get mpd to stream mp3...	19:36
psycho_oreos	True but it somewhat is worth it imo. Somewhat handy than worrying about mishaps, I guess to each their own. :)	19:36
a_l_e	it's probably easier.	19:36
DocScrutinizer05	sigh	19:37
psycho_oreos	a_l_e, it might even be more easier if you could do it through something like shoutcast iinm.	19:37
psycho_oreos	Aye, I'm not going to rub it in. Just saying lol.	19:37
psycho_oreos	3.10?	19:39
psycho_oreos	Wait.. kernel 3.10? what the.. are you nuts?	19:39
DocScrutinizer05	streaming of mp3 is actually not supported in standard maemo core apps afaik	19:39
_d0t	psycho_oreos: not particularly.	19:39
a_l_e	thanks!	19:40
DocScrutinizer05	booting 3.x kernels on N900 is all easypeasy	19:40
DocScrutinizer05	just it won't work togeher with fremantle	19:40
a_l_e	no, it does not work :-(	19:40
psycho_oreos	_d0t, afaik kernel 3.x is in development and it's mainly those whom are daring enough to run it. There's probably less than a handful of developers working on 3.x kernel for fremantle.	19:41
_d0t	i dont care about fremantle. i have gentoo installed there. i just need a working kernel config, because rx51_defconfig doesnt seem to boot.	19:41
a_l_e	it plays two notes and then it skips to the next radio station.	19:41
psycho_oreos	Ahh well I'd say it might be best to ask the current power-kernel maintainer directly. Though no guarantees.	19:42
DocScrutinizer05	well, maybe ask in gentoo then?	19:42
_d0t	huh... gentoo doesnt have anything to do with the kernel, does it?	19:43
_d0t	I thought power-kernel is still at 2.6.28 version.	19:43
* psycho_oreos wonders how many gentoo developers left to continually maintain their build on maemo.. probably less than a handful as well.		19:43
DocScrutinizer05	how does #maemo have to do anything with 3-x kernels and defconfig?	19:43
_d0t	#maemo has everything to do with n900 :)	19:43
Pali	http://gitorious.org/linux-n900	19:44
psycho_oreos	Yeah, though the current maintainer may still have knowledge of (or maybe maybe of) 3.x	19:44
Pali	use kernel from n900 branch	19:44
_d0t	Pali: yeah, thats what i'm using	19:44
a_l_e	ok, on android it seems to work better with mp3.	19:45
_d0t	Pali: you are one of the active developers there, right?	19:45
Pali	yes	19:45
DocScrutinizer05	_d0t: nope, #maemo is about maemo	19:45
Pali	default rx51_defconfig booting from ubifs rootfs mtd	19:45
a_l_e	ok, i have to leave now... i'll have to try again at some later time...	19:45
psycho_oreos	a_l_e, does mpd support shoutcast stream? if so, that may not need much more work on the N900 itself. You can probably even continue to use that same osso-mediaplayer.	19:46
_d0t	Pali: trying it now. Its stuck after switching to colour buffer device.	19:46
psycho_oreos	Under osso-mediaplayer, there's a thing called internet radio. Supposedly if you can get your mpd to output in a format that osso-mediaplayer can support it should work.	19:47
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC		19:47
_d0t	Pali: then i guess the watchdog kicks in and reboots the device.	19:48
DocScrutinizer05	mhm, so what?	19:48
DocScrutinizer05	still #maemo?	19:48
Pali	yo need to compile watchdog drivers into zimage	19:48
a_l_e	mmm. psycho_oreos i can stream to an icecast2 server...	19:48
Pali	=Y	19:49
a_l_e	but i don't think that is is useful.	19:49
a_l_e	however: thanks for your help	19:49
psycho_oreos	a_l_e, I'm not particularly sure what format are those internet radio broadcast in. Though I'd say I've given you some pointers in which you can then research up if you're interested.	19:49
DocScrutinizer05	and the wd needs support from userland, I'd guess	19:49
*** arcean_ has quit IRC		19:49
Pali	no, you can turn watchdog off	19:50
DocScrutinizer05	and userland != maemo, aiui	19:50
a_l_e	yep, you gave several good hints!	19:50
a_l_e	thanks!	19:50
a_l_e	i'm quitting, so the hints do not scroll down!	19:50
_d0t	Pali: CONFIG_TWL4030_WATCHDOG=m this is from the defconfig. I suppose this might be the source of the issue.	19:50
Pali	and when driver load, it disable watchdogs automatically	19:50
a_l_e	have a nice evening, if it's evening at your place!	19:50
*** a_l_e has left #maemo		19:50
Pali	you need to change it from =M to =Y	19:50
_d0t	ok	19:51
DocScrutinizer05	only because userland doesn't load the wd module	19:51
Pali	yes, userland maybe not load it	19:51
*** shentey has quit IRC		19:51
Pali	but if userland is broken, then you have no way to read why	19:52
DocScrutinizer05	so again. isn't this a question for #gentoo then?	19:52
_d0t	DocScrutinizer05: this has nothing to do with gentoo or the userspace at all.	19:52
DocScrutinizer05	uhuh	19:52
DocScrutinizer05	[2013-09-26 18:51:19] <DocScrutinizer05> only because userland doesn't load the wd module	19:53
DocScrutinizer05	[2013-09-26 18:51:40] <Pali> yes, userland maybe not load it	19:53
DocScrutinizer05	userland=maemo? NO userland= gentoo	19:53
_d0t	DocScrutinizer05: it didnt get to the userspace	19:53
_d0t	Pali: thanks, that solved the problem.	19:53
DocScrutinizer05	sure	19:54
DocScrutinizer05	but not maemo related	19:54
_d0t	DocScrutinizer05: still I had much better chances of finding someone who works on n900 support in the recent kernels here than on #gentoo or some other channel. Stop whining.	19:55
DocScrutinizer05	I'm just making my point that you were wrong to assume #maemo was the right channel for asking about problems with 3.x kernel under gentoo	19:56
_d0t	DocScrutinizer05: do you really think that the distribution of chose has something to do with the kernel unable to boot?	19:56
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo		19:57
DocScrutinizer05	yes, obviously. Shall I paste a copy of the copy of pali's and my post, again?	19:57
_d0t	DocScrutinizer05: you should read my post, again.	19:57
DocScrutinizer05	your distro doesn't handle watchdog so the kernel driver module doesn't get loaded thus you need to mess with kernel defconfig	19:58
_d0t	no	19:58
DocScrutinizer05	evidently same 3.x kernel boots for pali and others just fine	19:58
_d0t	again, no	19:59
DocScrutinizer05	MEH!	19:59
_d0t	cool, huh? You're wrong twice	19:59
DocScrutinizer05	/changenic _d0t _Not	19:59
*** discopig has joined #maemo		20:00
DocScrutinizer05	no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,	20:00
DocScrutinizer05	cool, eh= you been wrong 11 tinmes	20:00
*** mavhc has quit IRC		20:01
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders how long since last /kick - weird strange desires growing		20:01
_d0t	are you threatening me?	20:02
*** at1as has quit IRC		20:02
*** mavhc has joined #maemo		20:04
DocScrutinizer05	are you trolling the channel?	20:04
_d0t	why do you answer with a question?	20:05
DocScrutinizer05	why do you?	20:05
_d0t	are you a jew?	20:05
DocScrutinizer05	first infracton points towards kick for trolling	20:05
_d0t	are you afraid that i might be trolling you?	20:06
DocScrutinizer05	second and last warning	20:06
_d0t	why do you keep warning me? Are you trolling me?	20:06
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer05		20:07
*** _d0t was kicked by DocScrutinizer05 (User terminated!)		20:07
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer05		20:07
*** mavhc has quit IRC		20:07
*** mavhc has joined #maemo		20:08
*** at1as has joined #maemo		20:10
*** useretail has joined #maemo		20:16
useretail	hey	20:18
useretail	is anyone alive?	20:18
DocScrutinizer05	no	20:18
DocScrutinizer05	no intelligent life down here	20:18
DocScrutinizer05	so bean me up, Scotty	20:18
DocScrutinizer05	beam* even	20:18
Apic	;-)	20:19
Apic	Meta-Questions suck.	20:19
DocScrutinizer05	~ask	20:19
infobot	Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.	20:19
useretail	i had power-kernel and few days ago i installed multiboot via apt and forgot about it. today i had to reboot my n900 and it showed me multiboot menu with two items but when i select any it reboots	20:21
useretail	what's next?	20:21
DocScrutinizer05	~maemo-multiboot	20:22
infobot	[maemo-multiboot] deprecated, and a horrible hack. PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED	20:22
useretail	is there any other solutions?	20:22
useretail	like adding proper kernel?	20:23
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, probably you could try to flash the right KP-kernel, via flasher with --flash-kernel-only	20:23
DocScrutinizer05	or use rescueOS to clean up the mess multiboot caused on your rootfs	20:23
DocScrutinizer05	~rescueos	20:24
infobot	rescueos is probably http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/	20:24
useretail	yes, i have tried rescueos already, but where i can find the kernel?	20:24
DocScrutinizer05	I guess you'll need the KP52(?) image you used last. there are images available somehwhere - pali could help out with a pointer	20:25
DocScrutinizer05	stock kernel otoh is inside fiasco image aka COMBINED	20:26
Pali	in extras-devel in -bootimg packages	20:26
DocScrutinizer05	thanks Pali	20:26
Pali	you need to unpack them from deb package	20:26
useretail	zImage-2.6.28.10-power52 < is that the one?	20:26
Pali	it must be without extension	20:26
Pali	then yes	20:26
useretail	ok, will try now	20:27
Apic	I installed u-boot-flasher and reinstalled kernel-power, now it boots _just_ kernel-power and I no longer have the Option to boot the original Kernel or Nitdroid like with multiboot (original is not a Problem, I need _just_ kernel-power, but how can I choose between Power and Nitdroid again? Will just reinstalling Nitdroid get me back a Menu at boot Time?)	20:27
Apic	And does U-Boot have the same Logic - boot with pulled out Keyboard shows Menu?	20:28
Pali	reinstall u-boot-flasher	20:28
Pali	yes	20:28
Apic	k	20:28
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: i can help with a pointer too! 0x0c003b72	20:28
kerio	well	20:29
kerio	(void *)0x0c003b72	20:29
*** Guest7847 is now known as Smily		20:30
kerio	...it's a joke	20:30
kerio	acknowledge it, dammit!	20:30
DocScrutinizer05	for KP under uboot you can't use the standard KP package since uboot is mutually exclusive with KP and stock kernel	20:31
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: ROTFL	20:31
useretail	do i have to add --flash-only=kernel option in addition to -k ?	20:31
kerio	useretail: no, it's implied	20:31
kerio	well, it'll try to flash everything it has	20:31
DocScrutinizer05	for uboot there are kernel images to place into somewhere in userland, you need to use those	20:31
Pali	-bootimg packages	20:32
DocScrutinizer05	useretail: when you leave out --flash-only=kernel then you will nuke/reflash your rootfs when using a fiasco image for input file "-F"	20:33
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: ok, let's try a different joke then	20:33
kerio	a TCP packet walks into a bar, and says to the bartender: "i'd like a beer"	20:33
kerio	the bartender says: "a beer?"	20:33
kerio	and the packet: "yes, a beer"	20:33
* ShadowJK laughs		20:33
useretail	strange, before flashing i decided to check for the last time and it booted up!	20:33
kerio	i'd also tell you a joke about UDP, but i'm not sure you'd get it	20:34
ShadowJK	kerio; did you hear the one about pulseaudio?	20:34
kerio	i thought pulseaudio was the joke!	20:34
DocScrutinizer05	indeed it is	20:35
kerio	mh, let's test this	20:35
ShadowJK	I for one, heard nothing.	20:35
kerio	hey Pali	20:35
kerio	pulseaudio	20:35
DocScrutinizer05	hahaha	20:35
DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: excellent! :-)	20:35
dos1	good one :)	20:37
useretail	how to remove multiboot safely / completely?	20:38
Apic	Ok, I reinstalled u-boot-flasher, and now I get a nice Menu with Keyboard slid out, but the only Option that seems to work is "Attached Kernel", and that boots the vanilla one, i.e. not -power	20:38
Apic	Shall I try installing kernel-power again too?	20:38
kerio	you need to install kernel-power-bootimg	20:39
Apic	Ok	20:39
DocScrutinizer05	useretail: that's where ~maemo-multiboot comes from. You basically can't, or it's at least pretty cumbersome	20:39
DocScrutinizer05	Apic: see what me and Pali explained a few posts above	20:39
DocScrutinizer05	Apic: installing kernel-power (sans -bootimg) will nuke uBoot again	20:40
Apic	oic	20:40
Pali	no	20:41
Pali	if you have uboot installed it will ask you if you want to reflash kernel or not	20:41
DocScrutinizer05	Apic: KP, uBoot, and stock kernel, all three share the same space to live in. So installing one nukes the other	20:41
Pali	unless you have uboot	20:41
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		20:42
Apic	Now I did aptitude reinstall kernel-power-bootimg and it says "Adding bootmenu entry for: 'Maemo 5 with kernel 2.6.28.10-power52 (Internal Nand)':	20:42
Pali	and installing any flasher will ask you what you want	20:42
Pali	that is ok	20:42
Pali	just reboot device with open keyboard	20:42
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: yep, pretty convenient extension on packaging	20:42
Apic	And can I have NITDroid added as an Option too?	20:42
Pali	and you will see it	20:42
DocScrutinizer05	afaik nitdroid supports uBoot since a few years, so yes	20:43
Pali	yes also nitdroid can be added to options	20:43
Apic	Ok.	20:43
Pali	vakkov worked on it	20:43
DocScrutinizer05	just DO NOT install multiboot again!	20:43
Apic	Yup, U-Boot Menu shows both -omap1 and -power52 now	20:43
Apic	Ok.	20:43
Pali	and he posted images and config files for nitdroid on nitdroid forum	20:43
*** singpolyma has joined #maemo		20:44
*** Martix_ has quit IRC		20:45
*** Pali has quit IRC		20:45
DocScrutinizer05	multiboot is actually flashing a new kernel during each boot	20:46
DocScrutinizer05	that's like flashing a new BIOS to your PC each boot, do select between windows and linux to boot	20:46
DocScrutinizer05	obviously extremely dangerous and clumsy	20:47
DocScrutinizer05	thus, steer clear of multiboot! by all means!	20:47
Apic	ic	20:47
*** rcg has quit IRC		20:48
useretail	thx guys i learned a nice lesson	20:51
DocScrutinizer05	yw	20:51
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	20:51
DocScrutinizer05	always pleased to meet new users willing to learn	20:52
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		20:56
DocScrutinizer05	useretail: my explanation of how multiboot works, as of above, also explains why multiboot nukes your uBoot or any other special boot setup you done	20:58
DocScrutinizer05	multiboot does during boot what you're supposed to NEVER do: flash a new kernel over uBoot	20:59
*** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo		20:59
Apic	nitdroid-installer says "Multiboot will be installed", so this is not the right one to use, eh?	21:10
kerio	nitdroid is not the right thing to use i'm afraid	21:10
Apic	ic	21:10
Apic	So http://wiki.maemo.org/Nitdroid_easy_install_on_EMMC is probably not the right Guide to follow either, eh? ;-)	21:11
*** florian has joined #maemo		21:13
*** rcg has joined #maemo		21:13
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo		21:17
DocScrutinizer05	sorry, I never looked into nitdroid so I can't help a lot regarding what's the right installation procedure. But one thing is for sure, any installation procedure that installs multiboot is the wrong one	21:17
Apic	Okay.	21:18
Apic	I already installed and ran it a Couple of Months ago, so the rootfs on my microSD is probably right, "just" the Kernel would need to be added to U-Boot	21:19
*** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC		21:20
*** florian has quit IRC		21:20
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo		21:23
*** flo_lap is now known as florian		21:24
*** Pilke has quit IRC		21:25
DocScrutinizer05	yep	21:27
*** Pilke has joined #maemo		21:28
*** pcfe has quit IRC		21:29
DocScrutinizer05	I just read the instruction/howto, about repartitioning eMMC. Sounds pretty nasty to have mmcblk0p1,mmcblk0p5(extended!),mmcblk0p2,mmcblk0p3	21:29
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: ^^^ :-o	21:30
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: hmm, I've never played with that	21:30
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Nitdroid_easy_install_on_EMMC#Method_2 7.Create new extended partition:	21:31
DocScrutinizer05	freemangordon: it's not at all about nitdroid, I'm worried about e.g. ke-recv	21:31
DocScrutinizer05	uBoot, etc	21:31
DocScrutinizer05	freak partiton table	21:32
freemangordon	I guess it somehow survives, at least I am not aware of any bugreport :)	21:32
DocScrutinizer05	p1, p2, p5, p3 ???	21:32
DocScrutinizer05	beggs for trouble	21:32
freemangordon	could be	21:33
*** cybr1d has joined #maemo		21:33
*** Pali has joined #maemo		21:34
DocScrutinizer05	iirc the partitioning defines that you can have only ONE extended partition, which has to be the last one. inside this extended partition you can have virtual partitions as many as you like, emphasis on "inside"	21:35
Apic	AFAIK the one extended Partition can be any one of the first 4, does not have to be Number 4	21:36
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: hmm, iirc you can have up to 3 or even 4 extended partition, but I might be wrong	21:36
freemangordon	*partitions	21:36
DocScrutinizer05	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning#Extended_partition	21:38
DocScrutinizer05	and s/virtual/logical/	21:38
*** shentey has joined #maemo		21:38
Pali	what do you think? can we finally push TI HD DSP codecs into extras-devel?	21:39
Pali	I can find some time and create debian packaging for hd video playback	21:40
*** singpolyma has left #maemo		21:41
freemangordon	Right now I am thinking that I hate SSI driver and the fact that I can't find the reason why SSI interrupts are not triggered :(	21:41
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		21:41
Pali	freemangordon: maybe you can look at sry kernel tree	21:42
*** beford has quit IRC		21:42
freemangordon	Pali: what to look for? I event ported SSI driver from nemo N9/50 kernel, with the same result	21:43
Pali	try skry 3.5 kernel with maemo	21:43
freemangordon	Pali: There is at least one bug I fixed in the clock framework, but that doesn;t help either :(	21:43
Pali	maybe there is problem in userspace	21:44
freemangordon	Pali: it is not	21:44
Pali	ok, you know	21:44
freemangordon	Pali: does DSP wrk in 3.5?	21:44
freemangordon	*work	21:44
Pali	do not know	21:45
Pali	but dsp drivers are enabled in 3.10 and 3.12	21:45
freemangordon	becasue it seems SSI shares clocks with DSP and that might be ther reason it doesn't work n 3.10	21:45
*** arcean_ has joined #maemo		21:45
freemangordon	Pali: I was thinking to ask on #linux-omap, but I saw your friend (fbalbi) there and gave up :D	21:46
Pali	now he finally included both patches :-)	21:47
freemangordon	yeah :D	21:47
Pali	and also sent wl1251 fw to public :-)	21:47
freemangordon	yep, saw that on LKML	21:47
freemangordon	however, SSI still doesn't work :(	21:48
DocScrutinizer05	OMG, US teenager girls sending an average of 135 SMS each day	21:49
kerio	how does kernel development on rx51 even work? is there some dude who tests every version?	21:49
DocScrutinizer05	ideally not only one guy	21:49
Pali	elinux.org/N900	21:49
freemangordon	though ^^^ is a bit oprimistic :)	21:50
freemangordon	*optimistic	21:50
useretail	ok, i've backed up everything.. what do u suggest to install: u-boot or maybe nolo?	21:50
kerio	yeah but how do you test everything?	21:50
freemangordon	kerio: boot to maemo?	21:50
kerio	on linux 3? :o	21:50
freemangordon	3.12 rc1	21:50
kerio	why am i not running 3.12rc1 then?	21:51
kerio	D:	21:51
freemangordon	you're too young for that :P	21:51
useretail	is it safe to install u-boot using apt-get install u-boot-flasher ?	21:52
useretail	i'm using power-kernel	21:53
*** DrCode has quit IRC		21:55
Pali	yes	21:57
*** bef0rd has quit IRC		21:57
Pali	it will ask you if you want to flash uboot into nand	21:58
Pali	accept it	21:58
Pali	and install also package kernel-power-bootimg	21:58
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		21:58
*** DrCode has joined #maemo		21:58
*** Kabouik has joined #maemo		22:01
*** bef0rd has quit IRC		22:02
*** Kabouik_ has quit IRC		22:03
useretail	damn, i didn't installed kernel-power-bootimg.. where do i have to put zImage-2.6.28.10-power52 so u-boot could boot it?	22:03
*** lexik has joined #maemo		22:05
Pali	you need to put it to /boot/ and also need to put item file to /etc/bootmenu.d/ and also run script u-boot-update-bootmenu	22:05
useretail	i rebooted already.. atached kernel doesn't boot, so the only option for me is eMMC (i don't have SD card).. where i have to put the image on eMMC to boot temporarily?	22:08
kerio	useretail: fwiw	22:08
kerio	you can just ramload kernel-power	22:08
kerio	it's probably easier	22:08
kerio	i assume you have access to a computer	22:09
kerio	also how are you going to put stuff in the emmc?	22:09
useretail	yeah :)	22:09
Pali	use: flasher-3.5 -k zImage -l -b	22:09
kerio	Pali: do you need a cmdline?	22:09
Pali	no	22:09
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC		22:09
kerio	is it compiled in the kernel or is it a NOLO default?	22:09
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo		22:09
Pali	in kernel	22:09
*** sledges has quit IRC		22:10
useretail	kerio: i was going to boot rescueOS	22:13
kerio	fair enough	22:14
Pali	use above flasher command for booting kernel	22:15
Pali	editing uboot files without maemo is hard	22:15
kerio	*without mkimage	22:15
kerio	which, to be fair, should be in every distro's repos	22:15
Pali	no, you need also u-boot-update-bootmenu	22:16
Pali	and generate bootmenu file which is stored in MyDocs	22:16
Pali	or you can transfer uimage to emmc/sd and use uboot console for loading and booting	22:17
kerio	u-boot-update-bootmenu is a shellscript though	22:17
Pali	but loading and booting kernel is easier from flasher	22:17
Pali	why to complicate it?	22:17
kerio	oh ofc	22:17
Pali	u-boot-update-bootmenu expect maemo system...	22:18
*** Natch has quit IRC		22:18
Pali	$ flasher-3.5 -k zImage -l -b	22:18
Pali	and then installing kernel-power-bootimg	22:18
useretail	Pali: ok, this method doesn't work for my n900.. it starts to boot (i see 5 dots blinking) but after that it power offs	22:19
Pali	did you used correct zimage file?	22:19
useretail	i believe so: zImage-2.6.28.10-power52	22:19
Pali	ok	22:20
Pali	if yes, then you have problem in maemo	22:20
Pali	not in kernel	22:20
Pali	if you cannot boot maemo from attached kernel and also with power kernel, you need to reflash device	22:20
useretail	i noticed that i couldn't boot the phone with usb attached	22:21
useretail	*earlier	22:21
Pali	flasher-3.5 -R	22:21
Pali	and then load and boot kernel	22:21
*** Kabouik_ has joined #maemo		22:21
Pali	-R reboot NOLO to normal bootable mode	22:22
Pali	(it can fix charger and some funny other errors)	22:22
*** Kabouik has quit IRC		22:24
*** Kabouik has joined #maemo		22:26
*** Kabouik_ has quit IRC		22:29
useretail	nothing.. still powers off	22:31
*** _rd has joined #maemo		22:32
Pali	make sure you have charged battery	22:35
Pali	and if kernel-power and also nokia kernel not booting, you need to reflash phone	22:35
*** Kabouik_ has joined #maemo		22:38
*** jgb has joined #maemo		22:40
Sc0rpius	I REALLY need an app to upload pictures somewhere and copy the link to the clipboard	22:40
*** jgb is now known as Guest42473		22:41
*** Kabouik has quit IRC		22:41
*** teotwaki has quit IRC		22:44
*** teotwaki has joined #maemo		22:48
*** shentey_ has joined #maemo		22:49
*** shentey_ has quit IRC		22:50
*** lexik has quit IRC		22:52
*** shentey_ has joined #maemo		22:55
*** Pilke has quit IRC		22:56
*** ketas- has joined #maemo		22:56
*** ketas has quit IRC		22:59
sixwheeledbeast	~seen M4rtinK	23:03
infobot	m4rtink <~M4rtinK@ip-89-177-124-88.net.upcbroadband.cz> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 21h 36m 41s ago, saying: 'rZr: just in case - check the AGPS server address'.	23:03
*** jimrj has left #maemo		23:04
*** sq-one has joined #maemo		23:05
*** shentey has quit IRC		23:24
*** arcean_ has quit IRC		23:25
*** piggz has quit IRC		23:29
useretail	so this worked: flasher-3.5 -k zImage-2.6.28.10-power52 --flash-only=kernel -f -R	23:29
*** piggz has joined #maemo		23:29
*** piggz has quit IRC		23:30
useretail	no more experiments for today lol	23:30
*** ketas- is now known as ketas		23:31
Pali	useretail: do not forget to install kernel-power-bootimg	23:32
useretail	do i need it? i mean i don't have uboot anymore	23:33
Pali	you have installed some uboot packages, right?	23:34
useretail	yep, i was going to purge everything	23:34
Pali	ok	23:35
*** Guest42473 has quit IRC		23:45
*** rcg has quit IRC		23:49
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		23:52
*** lizardo has quit IRC		23:55
*** sq-one has quit IRC		23:56
DocScrutinizer05	Sc0rpius: KDE pastebin widget	23:59
*** nox- has joined #maemo		23:59
*** _rd has quit IRC		23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!