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| WizardNumberNext | Lets say I need few alarms an hour. Is alarmclient good choice to set them? Where can I find easy to comprehend documetation, possibly with many examples | 00:54 |
|---|---|---|
| WizardNumberNext | ? | 00:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | WTF is wrong with tmo? | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | non-responsive | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, rather slooooow | 03:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, maybe they snapshotted the VM | 03:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~xyawn | 04:06 |
| infobot | it has been said that xyawn is nice coffee | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RLY? | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~xyawn | 04:06 |
| infobot | [xyawn] coffee | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 04:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | moooOOOOooo | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: have a look into alarmed app | 09:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you either want to use alarmed GUI, or alarmed CLI, or alarmed sourcecode for an example how to use alarmd(aemon) | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alarmclient feels kinda like PITA | 09:26 |
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| Estel_ | M4rtinK, thanks :) Bts, out of curiosity, what those "foot", "train", "bus", etc modes are supposed to do? | 11:45 |
| Estel_ | I though that bus will use public communication data for routing, but, apparently it doesn't | 11:45 |
| Estel_ | now I see that *some*of them change layout | 11:45 |
| Estel_ | i.e. train displays lattitude and loingtittude (?!) on main screen, and bicycle displays distance bike'd, + max speed and avrage speed | 11:46 |
| Estel_ | train display current time | 11:46 |
| Estel_ | it would be *really* nice, if one could configure what is displayed manually, per mode | 11:47 |
| Estel_ | for example I need time much more when "on foot" than when in car (cars usually have own time display) | 11:47 |
| Estel_ | just a suggestion, again :) | 11:47 |
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| M4rtinK | Estel_: it basically works like you describe it :) | 11:48 |
| M4rtinK | you can change what is displayed in user_config.conf | 11:49 |
| M4rtinK | in the modrana profile | 11:49 |
| M4rtinK | but the info widgets are rather basic | 11:49 |
| M4rtinK | other than that, you can bind option values to modes in Options | 11:49 |
| M4rtinK | sou you can have like different layer in foot mode than in car mode | 11:50 |
| M4rtinK | and it actually also changes if you get car, walking or bike directions, if available | 11:50 |
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| M4rtinK | no public transport routing yet, though I have found out recently that the Google API can do it now | 11:51 |
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| Estel_ | M4rtinK, thanks, forge about per mode options | 11:55 |
| Estel_ | and nice to know that one can change "widgets" from user_config | 11:55 |
| Estel_ | any particular reason why no gui options for that, or just lack of time to write it just yet? :P | 11:55 |
| M4rtinK | exactly that :) | 11:55 |
| M4rtinK | IMHO it should really be user configurable | 11:56 |
| M4rtinK | or more like interactively configurable | 11:56 |
| M4rtinK | but haven't got to that | 11:56 |
| M4rtinK | for like 2 years already :) | 11:56 |
| M4rtinK | always something more pressing :) | 11:57 |
| M4rtinK | I'm thinking about making it a two part object | 11:57 |
| M4rtinK | with one part providing the data | 11:58 |
| Estel_ | No surprise here, it's really awesome program, looking like it's written by dedicated team, not single person - kudos for what is already available | 11:58 |
| M4rtinK | and another part handling the drawing of the widget on the different GUI & remembering where it is and how big it should be etc. | 11:59 |
| M4rtinK | thank ! :) | 11:59 |
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| Estel_ | BTW I also think that off-line routing is more pressing :P | 11:59 |
| Estel_ | hm, sounds reasonable (two part object) | 11:59 |
| M4rtinK | well, that should work since summer :) | 11:59 |
| Estel_ | ops, I've lost something :P | 11:59 |
| Estel_ | monav off-line routing? | 11:59 |
| M4rtinK | although when I tried it yesterday it seemed broken | 12:00 |
| M4rtinK | yep | 12:00 |
| Estel_ | using own generator, local generation, or marble one? | 12:00 |
| Estel_ | ah | 12:00 |
| Estel_ | so I haven't missed it, it's broken here too :P | 12:00 |
| M4rtinK | http://wiki.maemo.org/ModRana_offline_routing_guide | 12:00 |
| Estel_ | thanks | 12:00 |
| M4rtinK | you need to do some manual steps first | 12:00 |
| M4rtinK | I would like to make it automatic though | 12:01 |
| M4rtinK | and thanks to Wikiwides patches, you can also just input the route, even with notification messages | 12:03 |
| M4rtinK | BTW, anybody else on DevConf in Brno ? | 12:04 |
| M4rtinK | already met a N810 guy yesterday and many N9 users :) | 12:05 |
| Estel_ | sounds nice | 12:07 |
| Estel_ | BTW, I remember you were talking about modrana repository with monav data, and about time of generating it on sope supercomputer | 12:07 |
| Estel_ | is it available already? | 12:07 |
| Estel_ | or openstreetmap.de is preffered source, still? | 12:08 |
| M4rtinK | oh, it is missing from the guide | 12:08 |
| M4rtinK | http://modrana.org/data/monav/ | 12:08 |
| M4rtinK | the data is from october though | 12:09 |
| M4rtinK | I actually have a fresh set prepared that I'll publish probably on Monday | 12:09 |
| * Estel_ nods | 12:09 | |
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| M4rtinK | you can update the guide if you want to :) | 12:10 |
| M4rtinK | and I'm heading back to the conference :) | 12:10 |
| * Estel_ nods | 12:11 | |
| Estel_ | will try it wiki won't fail to load on my 2G in-train connection :P | 12:11 |
| M4rtinK | good luck & thanks ! :) | 12:11 |
| M4rtinK | see you :) | 12:11 |
| Estel_ | seems, that irc is only thing that likes to work in 6 kb/s (in practice) connection | 12:11 |
| Estel_ | have fun on conf | 12:11 |
| M4rtinK | ok :) | 12:12 |
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| cityLights | can I use the gps from my laptop? | 12:59 |
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| jacekowski | ? | 13:00 |
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| jacekowski | you want to use N900 GPS from your laptop? | 13:00 |
| jacekowski | or the other way? | 13:00 |
| jacekowski | there is an app called columbus | 13:00 |
| cityLights | thanks | 13:01 |
| cityLights | does n9 has such a program? | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, infobot on holiday | 13:03 |
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| ccxCZ | does rescueos or bootmenu support charging? | 13:06 |
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| infobot | DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! | 13:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | bootmenu does | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err backupmenu does | 13:07 |
| ccxCZ | kthnx | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno about rescueos | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~+chaninfo | 13:08 |
| infobot | 123/123 channels, 4939 users, 3565 unique: #debian/1269, #kde/403, #maemo/259, #asterisk/215, #gsoc/211, #oe/147, #wowuidev/142, #meego/138, #harmattan/137, #arm-netbook/130, #cubieboard/112, #wowace/112, #wowhead/91, #webos-internals/83, #utah/77, #openmoko/76, #openmoko-cdevel/68, #tomcat/67, #bzflag/65, #uclibc/56, #edev/54, #n9/49, #maemo-ssu/49, #htc-linux/48, #curseforge/48, #sc2mapster/43, #asterisk-dev/42, #/35, #slug/35, #elinux/34, ... | 13:08 |
| ccxCZ | one suffices :-) | 13:08 |
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| kerio | rescueos has charge21.bash | 13:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | .sh | 13:14 |
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| bennypr0fane | please help, my Maemo conversations app is broken! All conversations disappeared. everything else seems normal. Please help me investigate this | 15:17 |
| thedead1440 | bennypr0fane: have you tried a reboot? Mine have disappeared a few times but a reboot or two usually means they come back... | 15:18 |
| bennypr0fane | Last I received an sms, with a preview visible in the task manager, but that may have been an sms that I already got yesterday. tapping it got me to the empty conversations home screen... | 15:19 |
| bennypr0fane | thedead1440 yes hav rebooted twice | 15:20 |
| bennypr0fane | nothing :-( | 15:20 |
| bennypr0fane | also changed the battery | 15:20 |
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| NIN101 | usually they shouldn't just disappear. Recently, did you install something? | 16:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1324789#post1324789 | 16:32 |
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| bennypr0fane | NIN101 Xbmcremote was what I installed last, and CutetubeQML | 16:46 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: tl;dr | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: then don't complain later on | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you want the bottom line: HiFo (Rob) going nuts again | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to a point where he rather kills maemo than considering the true meaning of the term "hosting contract" | 16:49 |
| kerio | ah, yes | 16:49 |
| kerio | meh, i just hope the iphh guys won't get too fed up with that shite | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a hosting contract would include maintenance | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a CoLo *contract* would include guaranteed bandwidth and whatnot else | 16:51 |
| WizardNumberNext | DocScrutinizer05: it seams alarmed doesn't work for me. It doesn't do anything and seams to hung as soon as I would touch it. I admit I had problem to install it, because of hashsum, but after renaming files and moving them to appropariate location, I was able to install it, along with dependencies. | 16:51 |
| kerio | >renaming and moving | 16:51 |
| kerio | nope | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IPHH asks for NOTHING, ZARRO, still HiFo wants them to offer a *contract* to them | 16:51 |
| kerio | that's not how dpkg works | 16:51 |
| kerio | "we host your server for free in exchange for one cup of shut the fuck up from board. signed, iphh" | 16:52 |
| WizardNumberNext | kerio: it simply named files with some additional extension and dropped them in partial, but debs were completely downloaded | 16:52 |
| kerio | WizardNumberNext: fair enough | 16:53 |
| WizardNumberNext | so I moved them to /var/cache/apt/archives and removed stupid extension from names | 16:53 |
| kerio | the debs should be fine, yes | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, the debs don't check for dependencies | 16:54 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am not sure, if it installed it properly, as alarmed doesn't work | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, don't resolve them | 16:54 |
| kerio | WizardNumberNext: did you install them with dpkg -i or did you actually use apt-get in the end? | 16:54 |
| kerio | anyway, just as a security measure, run "apt-get install -f" | 16:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | apt-get does check and I downloaded all debs with apt-get, but it refused to install, because of hashes, so I moved, renamed and installed it with dpkg | 16:55 |
| kerio | it should do nothing, if everything is supposed to be working | 16:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | sec | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get complained about hashsums??? | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 16:55 |
| NIN101 | bennypr0fane: hmm, dunno. | 16:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | appears clean | 16:56 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it would be weird otherwise, nobody did anything to fix the hashsum problem yet, so i'd expect it to still be there | 16:56 |
| kerio | WizardNumberNext: btw, have you rebooted? | 16:56 |
| WizardNumberNext | I think few times already | 16:56 |
| kerio | hm | 16:56 |
| kerio | i've never used alarmed, so idk how to help you diagnose it | 16:56 |
| kerio | what does `alarmclient -L` list? | 16:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | but reboot doesn't affect apt and dpkg, after it finished, at least on debian | 16:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | alarms, ham updates and modest | 16:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | standard I presume | 16:57 |
| kerio | so nothing from alarmed? | 16:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | on contrary alarmed doesn't list anything | 16:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | and doesn't work - hungs every single time | 16:58 |
| WizardNumberNext | in worst case I can reverse installation, as commands are in history | 16:59 |
| kerio | are you sure that `alarmed` isn't the daemon? | 17:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | I have some giu | 17:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | gui | 17:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | let me see what ps would say | 17:01 |
| WizardNumberNext | alarmed doesn't run at the moment | 17:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I really don't get laws in USA, neither the lawyers there. In the sane world, a contract gets handed out by somebody to a second party to sign it and thus promise they will pay (or fulfill other obligation), usually to obtain some service or goods offered by first party | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for Rob this always sounds like top down | 17:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Jolla offered cooperation, Rob asks them to sign a NDA | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IPHH offers free CoLo, Rob demands a hosting contract to be sent to him | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | something is odd with either Rob or US laws | 17:04 |
| bennypr0fane | <DocScrutinizer05 one lawyer friend once told me that in US criminal jurisdiction, there aren't actually such things as laws, but just previous decisions made by judges in similar cases | 17:04 |
| thedead1440 | I would say something is wrong with Rob ;) | 17:04 |
| kerio | i'd post a summary on TMO, maybe in that same thread | 17:04 |
| kerio | so there's something to link | 17:05 |
| jacekowski | bennypr0fane: it's called common law | 17:05 |
| jacekowski | bennypr0fane: and there is something like that in the UK and other countries as well | 17:05 |
| bennypr0fane | which then further decisions in the same area are based upon, sorta like the law is made by the judges - sounds pretty odd to me | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: I already significantly stripped redundancy from that shit, I'm not going to interprete it | 17:05 |
| jacekowski | bennypr0fane: not exactly | 17:05 |
| jacekowski | bennypr0fane: it's basically so everyone gets the same verdict in the end | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I might add a request for Aspirin donations though | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since this stuff kills me | 17:06 |
| bennypr0fane | jacekowski well I guess it was a pretty rough, schematic skecth of my friend desribeing how it works | 17:06 |
| jacekowski | basically idea is, that you go and steal something from a shop | 17:07 |
| jacekowski | and you get 500 years in prison for that | 17:07 |
| bennypr0fane | anyway I totally don't get how this can work, without laws made in parliament as a basis | 17:07 |
| jacekowski | then if someone else would do the same, judge would look at previous verdicts in same or similiar case | 17:08 |
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| WizardNumberNext | I did run it from Xterm, I got this: AttributeError: 'PySide.Qt.Maemo5.QMaemo5DatePickSelector' object has no attribute 'connectNotify' | 17:13 |
| WizardNumberNext | I am going to make backup now. Then I would see how 'apt-get upgrade' would affect system. I got 38 packages, which aren't listed in HAM | 17:14 |
| WizardNumberNext | sorry 32 | 17:15 |
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| WizardNumberNext | apt gnome-vfs-filechooser-backend hildon-home hildon-status-menu libcurl3 libgtk2.0-0 libgtk2.0-bin libhildon1 libhildonfm2 libpango1.0-0 libqt4-core libqt4-dbus libqt4-declarative libqt4-gui libqt4-maemo5 libqt4-multimedia libqt4-network libqt4-opengl libqt4-phonon libqt4-script libqt4-sql libqt4-sql-sqlite libqt4-svg libqt4-test libqt4-translations libqt4-webkit libqt4-xml libqt4-xmlpatterns libxml2 osso-pdf-viewer osso- | 17:16 |
| WizardNumberNext | wlan osso-xterm | 17:16 |
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| WizardNumberNext | I am quite surprised it is not listed in HAM. Any idea why? | 17:16 |
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| Sicelo | who is Rob? | 17:26 |
| kerio | board dude | 17:26 |
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| Sicelo | WizardNumberNext: iirc HAM doesn't list everything, yes. | 17:27 |
| Sicelo | kerio: Bauer? :-/ | 17:28 |
| kerio | yep | 17:30 |
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| Sicelo | :-( | 17:33 |
| kerio | wasn't that dude known beforehand? | 17:33 |
| n900-dk | Jack would finish the job in 24 hours ;) | 17:33 |
| Sicelo | WizardNumberNext: what if you 'un-daemonize' alarmed ... is the log useful? for me alarmed works as expected | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GeneralAntilles: it's not even about somebody stealing the server, it could be a simple bankrupt of IPHH that would get all hw in their possession to get labeled and without proper papers you wouldn't be able to get it back. I *completely* understand and agree HiFo needs to take care about that. But what I not agree with is them insisting in a HOSTING contract | 17:35 |
| bennypr0fane | my problem seems to have existed before , http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58984&highlight=conversations+disappeared&page=3 not sure though as to which one exactly of the many presented here is the accepted/proven one regarding current state with CSSU, since it's all rather old. a bug was raised too https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11456 Has anyone come across this issue before? | 17:36 |
| povbot | Bug 11456: History of every conversation (SMS, IM) empty after update to PR1.3 | 17:36 |
| bennypr0fane | Oh cool, let's see. bug 11464 | 17:37 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/11464 Disappearing Conversations | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hosting in my book includes maintenance, and NOBODY will offer that, since nobody (but Nemein) is competent to do | 17:37 |
| WizardNumberNext | alarmed is just python script, at least looks like judging by file | 17:37 |
| WizardNumberNext | Sicelo ^^ | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | our tech staff of sysop and maintainer volunteers hopefully eventually will be competent to offer hosting | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NO WAY iphh will offer a hosting contract, neither for free nor for $5000/month | 17:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for memo.org | 17:40 |
| Sicelo | yeah.. i was looking at alarmd , WizardNumberNext :P | 17:40 |
| WizardNumberNext | Sicelo: I was thinking that | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WizardNumberNext: yes, it is python | 17:40 |
| WizardNumberNext | is it script or "binary" | 17:40 |
| WizardNumberNext | I didn't inspect contents of files | 17:41 |
| WizardNumberNext | yet | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, isn't that virtually the same for python? | 17:41 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: he probably, as usual, doesn't know wtf a hosting contract is | 17:41 |
| ShadowJK | hosting with maintenance is called "managed hosting" and even then probably only includes maintenance of "standard" stuff only | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, and that's the whole problem, and he rather accepts maemo.org going offline on 03-01 than maybe growing a brain and learn about that stuff | 17:42 |
| Sicelo | WizardNumberNext: 'script' /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py | 17:42 |
| WizardNumberNext | Sicelo: as I was thinking | 17:42 |
| Sicelo | bennypr0fane: bug list helping? i had a friend who had your issue, and due to time constraints, we reflashed. otherwise i'm interested to know how to fix it | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: whatever, asking for a hosting contract on top of a CoLo contract is bold, if the donor clearly stated they offer free CoLo only. If he bothers about possibility to repossess the server, he rather should ask for "all papers needed to ensure that we can repossess the server" | 17:45 |
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| ShadowJK | hosting as I understand it, is different from colo in that with colo, you own the servers, with hosting the provider owns the servers, and depending on the tyoe of hosting, you might share server with other people too. | 17:47 |
| ShadowJK | Neither terms, as I understand it, includes any assistance in running the servers. | 17:48 |
| ShadowJK | Some places are kind enough to make a best effort to make your machine bootabke and reachable again if you screw it up, but that's about as far as they'll go | 17:49 |
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| ShadowJK | In general I'd assume plain "Hosting" to consist of something like 5GB space on a www server, and a single mysql table. The server running possibly hundreds of websites :-) | 17:53 |
| bennypr0fane | Sicelo, whatever the solution, it seems like will have to spare 2 hours to go through with it. Will post my fix (hopefully a fix) in that thread when I manage | 17:53 |
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| qwazix | which libtool should I have in scratchbox? I think I have messed it up badly | 17:59 |
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| ccxCZ | can I get battery status from somewhere in /sys or so? | 18:22 |
| kerio | only with the bme replacement | 18:23 |
| kerio | with the stock bme, the best you can do is `hal-device bme` | 18:23 |
| ccxCZ | ok | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: the one from the repos? | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: "libtool 1.5.26-3maemo1 Generic library support script" | 18:25 |
| ccxCZ | after I salvage important data out of it, I'm gonna reflash this n900. Any advice about flashing or what useful stuff to install next? I already know of power-kernel, but not much beyond that | 18:26 |
| qwazix | freemangordon, I'm getting a libtool version mismatch when trying to compile embedlite-components | 18:27 |
| qwazix | "This is libtool 2.2.6b but the definition of this LT_INIT comes from an older release" | 18:28 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: do "git clean -df;git reset --heard HEAD" | 18:28 |
| freemangordon | dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b | 18:28 |
| freemangordon | *--hard | 18:28 |
| qwazix | I did that many times, also cloned again | 18:28 |
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| freemangordon | hmmm | 18:29 |
| freemangordon | lemme pull the latest and retry | 18:29 |
| qwazix | same thing, m-c compiled fine, and I am stuck in components | 18:29 |
| qwazix | tried older commits too, I believe I borked something in sb | 18:30 |
| freemangordon | yeah, looks like :( | 18:31 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: it builds here, it is your SB | 18:32 |
| qwazix | ok, what's your "libtool --version" | 18:33 |
| qwazix | ? | 18:33 |
| qwazix | also "which libtool" | 18:33 |
| freemangordon | ltmain.sh (GNU libtool) 2.2.6b | 18:33 |
| freemangordon | "/targets/links/arch_tools/bin/libtool" | 18:34 |
| qwazix | and apt-cache policy libtool? | 18:34 |
| freemangordon | libtool: | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | Installed: 1.5.26-3maemo1 | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | Candidate: 1.5.26-3maemo1 | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | Version table: | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | *** 1.5.26-3maemo1 0 | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/sdk/free Packages | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: try to reinstall it | 18:35 |
| qwazix | I tried, I have a different which libtool so I'll try to find why that is so | 18:36 |
| qwazix | thanks | 18:36 |
| freemangordon | np | 18:36 |
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| thedead1440 | one question; there is a "Depends" line in mp-fremantle-community-pr in /var/lib/dpkg/status. Does it mean the removal of packages' names from the depends line allow those packages to be safely installed without affecting mp-fremantle-pr? Asking this as i wanted to get rid of a few apps on harmattan but they are in the "Depends" line in the meta package. | 18:39 |
| thedead1440 | s/installed/uninstalled/ | 18:40 |
| infobot | thedead1440 meant: one question; there is a "Depends" line in mp-fremantle-community-pr in /var/lib/dpkg/status. Does it mean the removal of packages' names from the depends line allow those packages to be safely uninstalled without affecting mp-fremantle-pr? Asking this as... | 18:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | >>The Board will do what it thinks is best for Hildon Foundation. Hopefully ,Nemein, will cooperate with whatever decision we make. << read twice! | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi qwazix, freemangordon | 18:57 |
| freemangordon | what's wring with those guys? | 18:57 |
| freemangordon | *wrong | 18:57 |
| thedead1440 | what is best for HiFo? Since when did those 2 people (1 of whom is unelected) decide whats good for the Community-at-large? | 18:57 |
| freemangordon | wasn't HiFo suppsed to do what is the best for Mameo Community?!? | 18:58 |
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| thedead1440 | exactly and till date almost all their decisions are not for the best | 18:58 |
| kerio | what the hell, what does nemein have to do with this | 18:58 |
| freemangordon | this is getting ridiculous | 18:58 |
| qwazix | hi DocScrutinizer05 | 18:58 |
| freemangordon | hi DocScrutinizer05 | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | YAY nielDK answers :-) | 18:59 |
| qwazix | freemangordon, I fixed it, it was using different libtool at different stages of build. I had to copy the m4 macros of libtool manually to /usr/share/aclocal | 18:59 |
| kerio | is this public somewhere? | 18:59 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: good :) | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not yet | 19:00 |
| kerio | or is it only public through copypasting? | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, he just agreed on what I wrote in my last mail | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and remarked there's too much confusion around | 19:01 |
| freemangordon | phew :) | 19:01 |
| kerio | also, wtf is tim doing | 19:01 |
| kerio | he's the chairman | 19:01 |
| kerio | he's supposed to keep rogue elements in control | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're free to ask board@maemo.org | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I published the whole "thread" for a reason, it's getting 'too heavy' for me | 19:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | IOW I felt urgent need to have this reviewed by community | 19:03 |
| thedead1440 | DocScrutinizer05: so now he says its ok and he agrees to what you said? | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I might have made mistakes I didn't realize | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, NileDK says that | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | our ex-council member | 19:04 |
| thedead1440 | ah | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | here you are: >> I completely agree with Joerg here, there is just a bit too much confusion | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | around, and if a contract is needed, HiFo board needs to create one, and - | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hope - IPHH would agree. | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Have a strong fear to say the least that this wont matter soon. | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | But, I hope and pray this game won't end the game! | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /Niel | 19:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and WTF actually:>> | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | **To Falk: I suggest you not risk your time setting up the server at IPHH until this gets resolved. Despite what Joerg may have done and will do, the Board still has a decision to make and may decide to have hosting out of OSUOSL. | 19:14 |
| kerio | what the fucking fuck | 19:15 |
| thedead1440 | its because Rob doesn't have anything to lose. For him this seems more like a task; he doesn't use a n900 that would be affected in any fashion so its just a volunteer service he is doing to us. That's the general impression i get from him and Tim; aloof... | 19:15 |
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| john__ | is there a list of repositories we can use for the n900 | 19:37 |
| Sicelo | john__: 'standard' ones work. see /topic | 19:37 |
| john__ | I just looked at the topic | 19:38 |
| Sicelo | this Hifo business is getting weird :-( | 19:38 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 feels constant headache | 19:38 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the nasty kind that you know will not vanish any time soon | 19:39 |
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| ccxCZ | what was the source for stock n900 images again? or is there something better to use when doing full resflash? | 20:21 |
| kerio | ~skeiron | 20:22 |
| infobot | well, skeiron is the semi-official backup and emergency standin for all internet borne maemo resources: http://skeiron.org/tablets-dev/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 20:22 |
| kerio | or http://maemo.jacekowski.org/binary/firmware/ | 20:22 |
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| ccxCZ | kthnx | 20:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | could somebody please "translate" this >>Hosting contract will be needed in regards to collocated contract.<< for me? | 20:37 |
| freemangordon | where's woody? :) | 20:38 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: could it be that "hosting" means different thing in states? | 20:41 |
| ccxCZ | is there a way to tell which COMBINED edition is there currently? | 20:43 |
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| RST38h | Doc: hosting - they host your stuff at their servers | 20:48 |
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| RST38h | Doc: colocation - they give you a corner in the data center and a bunch of wires, you install your own servers | 20:49 |
| RST38h | Doc: it beats me what they want though - would call and ask | 20:49 |
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| kerio | ccxCZ: the latest official one is pr 1.3 | 20:51 |
| kerio | 2010.36 | 20:51 |
| ccxCZ | yeah, I meant the loacal variant | 20:51 |
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| Macer | omg the office cracks me up | 21:02 |
| nokiafreak | Wooa cant get tiis | 21:02 |
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| kerio | "Wooa cant get tiis" | 21:09 |
| kerio | truly enlightened words from a staggering genious | 21:09 |
| kerio | *genius | 21:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: *I* am well aware of all this, and I hope Rob is too, now: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1324858&postcount=10 | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tiis=titties? | 21:14 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 21:14 |
| MartinK_N9 | I reay hope this just communication eror and everything gets resoved successfully | 21:15 |
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| MartinK_N9 | after all the hard woek you all put into this | 21:15 |
| Estel_ | the ammount of love in the air between hifo and council is... overhelming | 21:15 |
| freemangordon | MartinK_N9: unfortunately does not look like that, at least to me. | 21:15 |
| MartinK_N9 | so once more - thanks a lot for soing this ! :) | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | to me, the problem is that there is a idiotic war between hifo and council, with "gathering fanboys" via irc, tmo, and whatever | 21:16 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: you'd better say "between HiFo and the community" ;) | 21:16 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: wrong | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, bullshit | 21:16 |
| Estel_ | after all, someone elected them, you think that everyone elected to hifo automagically becomes bastard? | 21:17 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: sure | 21:17 |
| Estel_ | either system is bad, or communication sux | 21:17 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: did I say that? | 21:17 |
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| freemangordon | what I am saying is that there is no "gathering fanboys" | 21:18 |
| MartinK_N9 | I find it weird | 21:18 |
| Estel_ | well, rob is a lawyer and he must ensure, that every law shit is set up properly, as "founding fathers" of hifo are responsible, perrsonally, for Foundation, to respect law | 21:18 |
| Estel_ | I think he communicates it wrong way... | 21:18 |
| Estel_ | and is quite slow to accept arguments | 21:18 |
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| Estel_ | OTOH, Council is bitching on irc, instead of spending more time discussing it with HiFo via mailing list, or whatever | 21:19 |
| MartinK_N9 | people seem to start behaving in weird ways once becomming HiFo board memvers :) | 21:19 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: and as every lawyer(and not only) with brain, he should listen to what those who know how the stuff works say | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | (not even proposing private discussions, as it tends to end in even more hate) | 21:19 |
| ShadowJK | The organization's administrative overhead seems as thick as nokia's, the slow rate at which things move ;p | 21:19 |
| Estel_ | MartinK_N9, I see it rather as "me vs they" syndrome | 21:19 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: :nod: | 21:19 |
| freemangordon | and this is not supposed to work like that | 21:20 |
| Estel_ | I just think that HiFo is totally separated from reality... | 21:20 |
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| Estel_ | of Maemo "Community", and Council is separated from HiFo legals. Two ends of circle. | 21:20 |
| ShadowJK | Also I'd like to point out that most other open source projects discuss things totally in the open :) | 21:20 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, absolutely agree | 21:20 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: and how is that related with "gathering fanboys"? | 21:20 |
| Estel_ | the fact that Council members come here and show things from only one perspective? | 21:21 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: and Rod is banned from #maemo?!? | 21:21 |
| freemangordon | *Rob | 21:21 |
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| Estel_ | I see it as "we have problem", and need to find solution. What I see here is always "they have a problem, they are idiots, they don't have brain" | 21:21 |
| MartinK_N9 | to show both perspectives | 21:21 |
| MartinK_N9 | you need both sides | 21:21 |
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| MartinK_N9 | or the result might be biased | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | and? we shall do what? | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, who knows, if he wouldmstart argumenting something in a way that teotwqaki don't like... :P | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: come on, stay in track | 21:22 |
| Estel_ | frankly, I tried to mention, that statute of hifo was flawed as hell | 21:22 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: but I don;t see why you blame the council for that | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | but you (freemangordon) heroe's like woody put stamp of "trolling" into every critic | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | well, ivgalvez was member of both hifo and council | 21:23 |
| Estel_ | I was banned for criticizing - politely - double candidacy. What he have done for maintaining proper communication between hifo and council? | 21:23 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: and he was inactive well before the end odf 2012 | 21:24 |
| Estel_ | if this thing was build on shit, don't expect it to bread apples. | 21:24 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: I don;t give a fuck why you was banned, this is totally unrelated to what we discuss | 21:24 |
| ccxCZ | backumenu can't serve sftp? O_o | 21:24 |
| freemangordon | your ban is not related to the conflict | 21:25 |
| MartinK_N9 | on the other hand, I cant really imagine council handling all they do now AND also all the legalese at the same time | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | it is related - everyone who criticized *any* aspect of how hifo was planned to work, be it dual-membership or statute, was considered "troll" | 21:25 |
| MartinK_N9 | unless it is twice as big | 21:25 |
| Estel_ | now he have fruits | 21:25 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: bullshit, check the thread on TMO | 21:25 |
| * Estel_ shrugs | 21:25 | |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, months after accepting flawed statute and electing people that were not suitable to be elected, even by that statute? :P | 21:26 |
| Estel_ | this thread is worthless, time for it was *then* | 21:26 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: you are well aware we were running out of time? | 21:26 |
| freemangordon | not to say that *now* it is pointless to discuss "what if" | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | HiFo was created in shadow of administration/moderation abuse, censorship of *legally right* free speech, criticism, etc. Now you're surprised that things are shit and not discussed in open | 21:27 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, I'm a little afraid that we're already post "running out of time" | 21:27 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: We are still not (afaik) but getting closer | 21:28 |
| Estel_ | hope I'm wrong on this one, honestly. | 21:28 |
| Estel_ | from my subjective and biased perspectice, it's lethal already | 21:28 |
| freemangordon | sure, if something don;t chage in the upcoming 48 hours | 21:29 |
| freemangordon | *change | 21:29 |
| MartinK_N9 | we have hardware & some hopefully still intetested in collocating it | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | I just don't see way to fix it unless we go "pirate way". Legal shit around hifo is unfixable | 21:29 |
| Estel_ | why 48? | 21:29 |
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| MartinK_N9 | just get that legaleze sorted out damn it :) | 21:29 |
| freemangordon | MartinK_N9: "we" as in? as it is HiFo who holds the legal rights AFAIK | 21:30 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: for example | 21:30 |
| * Estel_ nods | 21:30 | |
| freemangordon | that is how I see it | 21:30 |
| MartinK_N9 | well the community we but yeah :) | 21:30 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, sure, but I think - as said, at least in my opinion - that nice contributors like you, miss some major thing. It willmbe *never* healthy community, if it's build upon acceptance of things that happened around Maemo | 21:31 |
| Estel_ | *moral*, if not directly, is well related to how things are running | 21:31 |
| MartinK_N9 | sad that it sometimes loks like HiFo != community | 21:31 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: I am not aware of anything better than democracu, are you? | 21:32 |
| freemangordon | *democracy | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | you said you don't give a shit about two innocnt guys that got banned eternally, or my ban, or how irc is handled or... Fair enough. But giving acceptance to that, you add your share to accepting things, that make managing Maemo sick | 21:32 |
| MartinK_N9 | well those people were all woted in | 21:32 |
| Sicelo | February is a bad month for maemo, always. gawd | 21:32 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | define democracy - the variant with ostracizm is quite outdated, approx 3k years | 21:32 |
| MartinK_N9 | and anybody could candidate | 21:32 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: the one we live in | 21:32 |
| Estel_ | I like democracy, but it require more responsibility from people, en masse | 21:33 |
| freemangordon | sure | 21:33 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, well, I think democracy is nice as long as people *are* interested in keeping things fair | 21:33 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: those people were elected. period | 21:33 |
| Estel_ | if people are interested only in "having things working OK", and are closing eyes to abuse, mistreatment, etc, it becomes sick | 21:33 |
| Estel_ | it doesn't meant they can do whatever they wqnt | 21:34 |
| freemangordon | and honestly, I really mis ivgalvez | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | s/wqnt/want/ | 21:34 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: it doesn't meant they can do whatever they want | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | miss whoever you want, the result is, if you accept wrong-doers, not only some people "suffern, but also everything else stops to working, slowly | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | it's same for country-wide democracies | 21:34 |
| Estel_ | Putin was also elected ;) | 21:35 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: so what? | 21:35 |
| Estel_ | democracy isn't about "I vote right people and don't give shit" | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | if you stopped (or never did) carrying about if they're fair, or respecting other's rights, etc, it isn't democracy anymore | 21:36 |
| Estel_ | it's idontcarecracy | 21:37 |
| Estel_ | aka what happens in many civilized countries, nowadays :) | 21:37 |
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| Estel_ | even worse - the more respected member of your community you are, the higher impact is, when you say that you don't care about some missdoings | 21:38 |
| Estel_ | this is equal to legitimizing such actions | 21:38 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: the point is that you mix the things - your relatins with the moderators and the current migration status. I guess you are not gifted with hindsight, so please, don't say "toldya" | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Estel_> OTOH, Council is bitching on irc, instead of spending more time discussing it with HiFo via mailing list, or whatever)) Oh PLEASE, c'mon!!! spread a bit more shit about what council does | 21:39 |
| Estel_ | it doesn't matter if you like ivgalvez or others, it's about legitimizing wrong things they did, if you say that you - as one of biggest maemo contribugtors - doesn't care about it | 21:39 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, I must admit that you're the one who try to keep discussion with hifo transparent | 21:39 |
| Estel_ | at least it seems so | 21:40 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: I don;t care at *this* point in time, as it is irrelevant to the waaay bigger problems that very community has | 21:40 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, butterfly effect ;) | 21:40 |
| freemangordon | yeah, sure | 21:40 |
| Estel_ | if you don't care about small shit now, it becomes big stinking shit later | 21:40 |
| * freemangordon knows what butterfly effect is :P | 21:40 | |
| Estel_ | well, and you know that corruption starts by minor things getting corrupted? | 21:41 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: again, we have a situation. IMO we should focus on how to get out of it and keep maemo alive, everything else is less important *NOW* | 21:42 |
| Estel_ | well, for me it's not about "foreseing" - it's about common sense and experience, that show you clear signs of bad things starting to happen. You say that those things are irrelevant with bigger problems on horizon - here we disagree | 21:43 |
| freemangordon | those are not on horizon, the problems are here | 21:43 |
| Ex-Opesa | Hi. Is there anyway to check log or changes applied to extras and extras-testing official repository? [such as added new app or updated/etc?] | 21:43 |
| Ex-Opesa | a way* | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | I see it as organism, that need to be healthy as whole, at the same time | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, ok, not horizon ;) | 21:44 |
| freemangordon | and if we don;t solve them, maemo will be extinguished. IMO | 21:44 |
| Estel_ | well, there is always something more important than carrying about morals ;) the problem is that I don't belive that people lacking moral values are able to fix current problems | 21:44 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: I don't thing that Rob not knowing the difference between "hosting" and "colocation" has anything to do with the moral | 21:45 |
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| freemangordon | *think | 21:45 |
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| freemangordon | so your "moral" point is moot | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | :P I think that Council and HiFo ignoring moral things in the past, are less like to understand each other at the present | 21:46 |
| Estel_ | they will focus on hating each other | 21:46 |
| freemangordon | ooh, this is overcompicated for a stupid developr like me :P | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | blaming, etc | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | well | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | :P | 21:47 |
| Estel_ | you wouldn't belive how many times, even in last 50 years, things like goverments failed due to personal flaws and bad "atmosphere", despite logic, rules, system etc. dictating otherwise | 21:48 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: sure, democracy, you know :P | 21:48 |
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| Estel_ | :P | 21:48 |
| freemangordon | but nothing better is invented AFAIK ;) | 21:49 |
| Estel_ | well, I don't see people, nor in Council or HiFo, able to fix problems, even in presencde of awesome, ideal rules. Even less, when we have fucked up statute | 21:49 |
| Estel_ | thangs to woody and your other favorites :P | 21:49 |
| Estel_ | (all those who prepared and pushed the statute) | 21:50 |
| Estel_ | (and all those who would vote yes for whatever statute we would have, just to get hifo going) | 21:50 |
| Estel_ | disclaimer - not that I insist that I would be able to do it better ;) | 21:51 |
| Estel_ | BTW representative democracy suxx, I'm fan of direct democracy, where every person is responsible for participating in law creation, not only delegating "votes" to selected representants | 21:52 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: favourites? wrong. but whatever. The way those guys trust me and install the software, tweaks, whatever I came with, the same way I feel about those who produce legal stuff and such. I know what I am good in and what I am not (or don;t want to). And if I make your device bootloop, it is not necessarily because of my bad moral ;) | 21:52 |
| Estel_ | unnecessary proxy are they, politicians, in world of currently available technology. It's relict of past days, when it was technically feasible to have 1 person representing thousands | 21:53 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: it was Nokia requirement | 21:53 |
| freemangordon | (HiFo) | 21:53 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, sure, but you haven't inserted backdoor into KP to fry karam's device because you don't like it | 21:53 |
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| Estel_ | s/it/him/ | 21:53 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: freemangordon, sure, but you haven't inserted backdoor into KP to fry karam's device because you don't like him | 21:53 |
| Estel_ | shit about TMO and IRC moderations, and other abuses, are just like that - fraud of trust | 21:54 |
| Estel_ | accepting and legitimizing things that happened around moderation of Community infrastructure (tmo and irc is it, too), is just like accepting harmful backdoors in software, if you need developer-friendly comparisions | 21:55 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: as soon as community take over the repos, I'll do my best to get that piece of crap out of rmo. Call me whatever you like | 21:55 |
| Estel_ | batterypatch? well, community have repos already, just everything is screwed | 21:56 |
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| freemangordon | Estel_: also, who told you that I don;t like Karam? that's bullshit. | 21:56 |
| Estel_ | and as long as your best doesn't mean anything against rules, it's ok. | 21:56 |
| Estel_ | just example, not necessary real one | 21:57 |
| Estel_ | insert any name there instead of karam | 21:57 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 21:57 |
| Estel_ | let it be estel :P | 21:57 |
| freemangordon | what I don;t like is what he did (crappatches). | 21:57 |
| freemangordon | You may get your reasons from the relevant people, not me ;) | 21:57 |
| Estel_ | :P because you're not some shitty wrongdoer, using sane reaqsoning | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | now, the same can't be said about chemist, or even woody | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | or doc, to some extent :P | 21:58 |
| freemangordon | I can say it | 21:58 |
| Estel_ | you wouldn't even think of abusing trust that users have in KP to do some personal things | 21:59 |
| freemangordon | I had discussions with both of them and according to my understanding they are reasonablr | 21:59 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: don;t count on that :P | 21:59 |
| Estel_ | many wrong-doers are reasonable generally, just suck at certain responsibilities :P | 21:59 |
| freemangordon | Estel_: this is getting far off-topic (maemo survival) | 22:00 |
| Estel_ | but if they were elected to run community or parts of it, and they abuse some mechanism, or accept abusing it somewhere else when they could and should react, is just like you would insert backdoor in KP or hide discovery of backdoor in other software | 22:00 |
| Estel_ | lets say cssu :P | 22:00 |
| Estel_ | freemangordon, true ;) | 22:01 |
| Estel_ | btw maemo suvival sounds like nokia care | 22:01 |
| Estel_ | funny when used in one sentence | 22:01 |
| * Estel_ hides | 22:01 | |
| Estel_ | btw, just to be able to tell "tolday" later - I think they will settle down this "crisis" | 22:03 |
| Estel_ | and one of following three "crisises" will kill maemo | 22:03 |
| * Estel_ waves | 22:04 | |
| Estel_ | ~Pali | 22:04 |
| infobot | [pali] http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ | 22:04 |
| Estel_ | ~bme-replacement | 22:04 |
| infobot | bme-replacement is probably http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement/ | 22:04 |
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| kerio | noise | 22:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wow, Nostradamus resurrected | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wonder if our new age Nostradamus calculated the 7 "crisises" we already had which were not visible to the general public | 22:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw I don't mind what Mr Nostradamus thinks or tells about me, since we all know he believes I should handle everything in my life according to maemo "rules", *his* maemo rules, no matter how unrelated they actually are to anything maemo or Nokia. But to state that >>well, I don't see people [...] in Council [...] able to fix problems<< due to >>Council [...] ignoring moral things<< - that's a gross insult against the other two | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | remaining council members | 23:02 |
| kerio | wait, three council members | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 23:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | three minus me are two | 23:06 |
| kerio | oh, i see | 23:07 |
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| ccxCZ | what would be the 0xFFFF line to flash emmc and combined? | 23:35 |
| ccxCZ | 0xFFFF -f -M emmc.bin -M combined.bin ? | 23:37 |
| ccxCZ | or should it be done sseparately? | 23:37 |
| kerio | 0xffff can't flash the emmc | 23:38 |
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| ccxCZ | ic. theoretically I should be able to do that from backupmenu/rescueos, shouldn't I? | 23:41 |
| ccxCZ | assuming it's not in some superweirdformat | 23:42 |
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| ccxCZ | is it safe to flash just the stock rootfs without the firmwares? | 23:47 |
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| Pali | ccxCZ, without which firmware? | 23:50 |
| Pali | cmt? yes | 23:50 |
| ccxCZ | bootloader, gsm, etc. I don't think I have reason to flash that | 23:51 |
| ccxCZ | I just want to reset the sw | 23:51 |
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