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| eccerr0r | top | 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| eccerr0r | whoops wrong window | 00:07 |
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| raandoom | hello. is it possible to use *.svg icon for app? | 00:10 |
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| bef0rd | no | 00:13 |
| bef0rd | export is as png | 00:13 |
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| raandoom | and what maximum size of icon in fremantle menu? 48x48? | 00:28 |
| bef0rd | !google maemo wiki fremantle icon desktop | 00:30 |
| bef0rd | uhm | 00:30 |
| bef0rd | http://wiki.maemo.org/Developer_FAQ#What_icon_size_should_be_used.3F | 00:31 |
| bef0rd | ~google developer faq site:wiki.maemo.org | 00:32 |
| * bef0rd fails at infobot | 00:32 | |
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| kerio | wtf, my clock was off a second, and i synced it this morning | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | with gps? | 00:39 |
| kerio | ntpd | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | oh. | 00:39 |
| ShadowJK | over gsm or 3g? | 00:39 |
| kerio | wifi | 00:39 |
| kerio | europe.pool.ntp.org | 00:39 |
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| bef0rd | just a second? :P | 00:43 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 00:44 |
| kerio | fuck this, i'm running ntpd | 00:44 |
| kerio | why isn't there an anycast ntp server :( | 00:45 |
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| ShadowJK | 1.6 ms, 180ms, 0.17ms and -1.6ms offsets | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | on my desktop :P | 00:45 |
| bef0rd | Martix: o/ hey | 00:45 |
| ShadowJK | anycast? | 00:45 |
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| bef0rd | erm | 00:46 |
| bef0rd | M4rtinK: o/ hey | 00:46 |
| kerio | instead of having to rely on dns load balancing | 00:46 |
| kerio | especially because i'm not sure if busybox ntpd resolves the name more than once | 00:47 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: hi ! :) | 00:48 |
| M4rtinK | what can I help you with ? :) | 00:48 |
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| bef0rd | hey, I saw that your Mieru app got approved for BB10, wanted to check if you had any step by step guide of the process | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, even normal ntpd only resolves name at startp | 00:51 |
| kerio | that's bs :S | 00:53 |
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| ShadowJK | kerio, it used to never-again-query servers that were intermittently unavailable or unavailable at startup :-) | 00:55 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: just a barebones guide here: http://www.engcorp.com/pipermail/blackberry-python/2013/000023.html | 00:55 |
| ShadowJK | Basically, it never adjusted for dialup age.. | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | And now it's 15 years later | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | and it's only marginally improved. | 00:56 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: and a packaging example http://www.modrana.org/platforms/bb10/examples/mieru_example_1.0.zip | 00:56 |
| M4rtinK | which has ale the compiled libs | 00:56 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: hm, does getaddrbyname return *one* of the addresses, at random? | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | The OpenBSD openntp is arguably worse in terms of the load it puts on servers, I heard. | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, yes | 00:56 |
| kerio | ntpd -p europe.pool.ntp.org -p europe.pool.ntp.org -p europe.pool.ntp.org -p europe.pool.ntp.org | 00:56 |
| kerio | :D | 00:56 |
| ShadowJK | try add my hostname too | 00:57 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: I'd like to eventually have a step by step guide for it | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | should be s3 | 00:57 |
| kerio | ok to be fair there's <n>.europe.pool.ntp.org for that reason | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | is actually st2 for some reason | 00:57 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: but I'm guide busy at the moment :) | 00:57 |
| bef0rd | M4rtinK: I see, is there any requirement besides the native sdk? | 00:57 |
| kerio | oh, you're in the pool? neat | 00:57 |
| kerio | thank you so much for your service <3 | 00:57 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, I'm not | 00:57 |
| kerio | </3 | 00:58 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: I think not | 00:58 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, but it's open anyway | 00:58 |
| bef0rd | M4rtinK: ok I'll git it a try maybe tonight, and if I get stuck on something I'll ask you, maybe I can help with the guide | 00:59 |
| bef0rd | give it* | 00:59 |
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| ShadowJK | kerio, actually, now that I look at it, I sync against debian.pool.ntp.org... one of them happens to be st1 with gps ref | 00:59 |
| ShadowJK | 4 reachables | 01:00 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: that would be nice ! :) | 01:00 |
| ShadowJK | 0.566, -4.747, 11.611, -0.800 offsets | 01:00 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: just ask & I'll answer as best as I can :) | 01:00 |
| ShadowJK | -0.800 one is the st1 | 01:00 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: just note that I'll be on a conference on saturday & sunday, so I will probably not be on IRC too much | 01:01 |
| bef0rd | M4rtinK: ok, I'll ping you on twitter | 01:01 |
| bef0rd | :P | 01:01 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: BTW, some information fragments are also here: http://modrana.org/trac/wiki/BB10 it is a bit outdated though :) | 01:02 |
| M4rtinK | bef0rd: :D | 01:02 |
| bef0rd | thanks | 01:03 |
| M4rtinK | I'm glad it will be of use to somebody else :) | 01:04 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: who decides the stratum? | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, time source = 0, computer syncing to source = 1, computer syncing to computer syncing to source = 2, computer syncing to computer syncing to computer syncing to source = 4 | 01:05 |
| ShadowJK | err, 3 | 01:05 |
| kerio | wtf is a time source | 01:05 |
| kerio | wouldn't that be the higgs field or something | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | Atomic clock | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | Commonly, GPS | 01:06 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: how do they handle relativistic effects? | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | Because GPS sats have atomic clocks, they transmit their time continously, and their clocks are constantly monitored and calibrated by the ground crews | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | relativistic effects are accounted for in GPS system, without the accounting it'd be miles off, iirc | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | The biggest problem is cheap gps receivers, you can't get accurate time from all of them | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | but anyway, ntp was kinda designed in an age when the number of atomic clocks in the world could be counted on one hand | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | and they weren't being broadcast | 01:08 |
| kerio | no, i meant that there's no such thing as synchronicity, if you want to be *really* precise | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | So it was envisioned that you'd need a tree | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | Um | 01:09 |
| ShadowJK | Well yes, time isn't accurate :-) | 01:09 |
| kerio | how do you start an atomic clock? | 01:09 |
| kerio | getting the initial time from another atomic clock? | 01:10 |
| ShadowJK | As far as I understand it, international atomic time is based on several atomic clocks averaged | 01:11 |
| kerio | i see | 01:12 |
| ShadowJK | They don't run the same exact speed, because they might be higher altitude or lower altitude relative to eachother, or the earth's density where they are might not be same as at the other clocks | 01:12 |
| ShadowJK | Even if we had 100% accurate machines, the basic fact is that time doesn't run at the same speed everywhere | 01:13 |
| ShadowJK | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Time | 01:14 |
| ShadowJK | Isn't it cute how there's an organization with the job of comparing atomic clock data from the past, and determine what the correct time was, in the past | 01:16 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: meh, UTC+35s | 01:16 |
| ShadowJK | "In the 1970s, it became clear that the clocks participating in TAI were ticking at different rates due to gravitational time dilation, and the combined TAI scale therefore corresponded to an average of the altitudes of the various clocks." | 01:17 |
| ShadowJK | "corrections were applied to the output of all participating clocks, so that TAI would correspond to proper time at mean sea level (the geoid). Because the clocks had been on average well above sea level, this meant that TAI slowed down, by about 10−12" | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: lattitude | 01:18 |
| kerio | altitude too | 01:18 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | distance to axis, circumference veocity | 01:18 |
| ShadowJK | Flattened sphere thing | 01:18 |
| kerio | gravitational time dilation, higher = less gravity | 01:19 |
| ShadowJK | Everyone thinks of time as something absolute | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: highly irrelevant compared to different relative spped due to differing latitude | 01:19 |
| ShadowJK | But time isn't absolute | 01:19 |
| kerio | ooh, maybe the time desync was caused from the difference in gravity from the couch to the desk | 01:21 |
| kerio | you know, because IT LOST ONE SECOND AND A HALF in just a day | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: at equator a clock is moving with relative speed of almost 2000km/h while at poles it's zero | 01:21 |
| ShadowJK | kerio, in your case it's probably thermal gradient :D | 01:22 |
| ShadowJK | or like | 01:22 |
| ShadowJK | if your initial sync was with ntpdate, all you got was a one-time sync | 01:22 |
| ShadowJK | It didn't try to adjust the speed of your local clock | 01:22 |
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| ShadowJK | ntpd does this, adjusts speed of clock and then only polls once per 1024s | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, you're not talking about 11min mode I gather | 01:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | where ntpd adjusts ummmm RTC after sysclosk? or the other way round? every 11min | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some funny detauls regarding that stuff with adjusting clocks can be found in munin | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | details* | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | I don't know about rtc, talking about where it adjusts speed of sysclock | 01:27 |
| ShadowJK | All I know is that without ntpd, you need to run hwclock manually with some adjtimex thing.. | 01:30 |
| ShadowJK | And if you run ntpd you better not touch hwclock program :-) | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ntpd is weird stuff | 01:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | if you try to *really* understand what they do in there | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | calculate ping times and whatnot | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | I used to know this stuff back when I actively used a NSLU2. Its clock was off by about 40% by default :-) | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when it comes to milliseconds accuracy, it starts getting funny | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | Had to set it manually to something vaguely closer to real rate before ntpd would engage | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's an NSLU2? | 01:34 |
| ShadowJK | Linksys Network Storage Link USB2 | 01:34 |
| ShadowJK | or something | 01:34 |
| ShadowJK | ARM, 2 USB ports, Ethernet. | 01:34 |
| ShadowJK | Attach harddrives to USB | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 01:35 |
| ShadowJK | Excellent custom firmware support | 01:35 |
| ShadowJK | Better than some current stuff. | 01:35 |
| ShadowJK | Mine died, and I couldn't find new ones. They seem to be acuirable in sweden still though, and very popular with HAMs. | 01:36 |
| ShadowJK | For running APRS in weirdest locations | 01:36 |
| ShadowJK | Helps that the board is small enough | 01:36 |
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| ShadowJK | The USB is quite reliable, more reliable than my modern stuff including PCs :( | 01:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 just recalls a user of vaguely similar name, probably a logbot | 01:37 | |
| ShadowJK | ya | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nslu2-log: help | 01:38 |
| ShadowJK | All properties that make it excellent at being thrown into a small plastic box mounted high up in an antenna mast | 01:38 |
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| eccerr0r | ls | 02:45 |
| eccerr0r | clear | 02:45 |
| eccerr0r | arrgh. | 02:45 |
| ShadowJK | ls | 02:46 |
| ShadowJK | clear | 02:47 |
| ShadowJK | echo lol > eccerr0r | 02:47 |
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| Drathir | reset | 02:51 |
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| Drathir | #maemolocalhost:~$ | 02:52 |
| Drathir | #maemo@localhost:~$ | 02:53 |
| eccerr0r | rm -rf * | 02:53 |
| Drathir | not works without confirm i hear... | 02:53 |
| eccerr0r | but it's a bourne shell | 02:54 |
| Drathir | better rm -rf /* | 02:55 |
| Drathir | and wait when all freeze hrhr | 02:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | haha | 03:07 |
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| iluminator105 | n900 charging area just came out what do i do to fix it | 05:42 |
| nox- | ~usbfix | 05:42 |
| infobot | i guess usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 05:42 |
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| Luke-Jr | iluminator105: I don't think you can fix it after it breaks | 06:01 |
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| iluminator105 | Luke-Jr, are you sure | 06:57 |
| Luke-Jr | no | 06:57 |
| iluminator105 | online i says you can solder it | 06:57 |
| iluminator105 | it* | 06:57 |
| iluminator105 | who says usbunit on n900 can be replaced say yay who says it cant be replaced say nay and we will tally the total yay and nay, i motion a second on this motion | 07:14 |
| Hurrian | yay. | 07:17 |
| Hurrian | but it is a bitch to resolder though, if you haven't done something that small before. | 07:17 |
| iluminator105 | yea i much take it much local place not mess with it let the pros handle it | 07:18 |
| iluminator105 | must* | 07:18 |
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| kerio | WizardNumberNext: duuuuuuude | 14:54 |
| kerio | stahp | 14:54 |
| WizardNumberNext | sorry, I didn't realized I am logged here | 14:55 |
| WizardNumberNext | getting out for sec | 14:55 |
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| WizardNumberNext | sorry for mess. Looks like I didn't wake up properly yet. Ther's no other explaination for lack of understanding of quite clear text | 15:17 |
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| WizardNoNext-PC | which revision of A8 is n900 omap? | 15:24 |
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| jacekowski | it's just "A8" | 15:35 |
| jacekowski | there is no revisions or anything | 15:36 |
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| WizardNoNext-PC | jacekowski: go to arm documetation - you will see how many revisions of A8 are on market | 15:47 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | r3p2, r3p1, r3p0, r2p3, r2p2, r2p1, r2p0, r1p1 | 15:48 |
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| WizardNoNext-PC | it have to be one of them | 15:49 |
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| Estel_ | ~mirrors | 15:56 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, mirror is http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/, or extras-devel.merlin1991.at - for fighting hashsum error | 15:56 |
| Estel_ | erm, and for enabling cssu-testing as suplement to cssu-thumb? | 15:57 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | how is going with hashsums anyway? Do anybody is fixing it? | 15:57 |
| Estel_ | kerio, ping :P | 15:57 |
| kerio | pong? | 15:57 |
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| Estel_ | yea, merlin1991 is looking at it afaik, or plan to | 15:57 |
| Estel_ | kerio, you're spec of repos info :P | 15:57 |
| Estel_ | situation - device of family member got cssu-thumb in outdated state | 15:57 |
| Estel_ | cssu-thumb repo is working OK | 15:57 |
| Estel_ | question: which mirror is to be used to cssu-testing | 15:58 |
| Estel_ | for installing things that are not thumbified yet | 15:58 |
| kerio | yeah, community-testing on rmo is outdated a bit | 15:58 |
| Estel_ | noticed that ;) | 15:58 |
| kerio | Estel_: i assume that domain issues aren't going to be issues, in your case? :) | 15:58 |
| Estel_ | yep. | 15:59 |
| kerio | community-testing.merlin1991.at | 15:59 |
| Estel_ | thanks a lot | 15:59 |
| kerio | it's a much better repo, anyway | 15:59 |
| kerio | only the latest version of things, pdiff support | 15:59 |
| kerio | .bz2 things | 16:00 |
| Estel_ | i wonder why it can't become the case for rmo? | 16:00 |
| kerio | well i'm not sure about not having old versions | 16:00 |
| kerio | but i assume that merlin1991 will eventually upgrade the repos :) | 16:01 |
| Estel_ | I'm just talking about pdiff | 16:01 |
| Estel_ | bz2 | 16:01 |
| Estel_ | etc | 16:01 |
| Estel_ | older versions must prevail | 16:01 |
| kerio | merlin1991: y u no pdiff | 16:01 |
| kerio | *persist | 16:01 |
| Estel_ | what will we do, if marmistrz decide to "upgrade" cryptsetup again | 16:02 |
| kerio | haha | 16:02 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | I have strange problem with wi-fi connection. if I would get disconnected for ANY reason (even manual disconnection on N900 itself) I cannot connect back to same network. Any suggestions? | 16:02 |
| kerio | Estel_: so 2:1.0.7-12maemo0 isn't good? | 16:02 |
| Estel_ | not funny, as I'm still using local version when I need to reinstall it - even before repo migration fail | 16:02 |
| Estel_ | kerio, smth was fucked there | 16:03 |
| Estel_ | can't recall what | 16:03 |
| Estel_ | WizardNoNext-PC, too less data | 16:03 |
| Estel_ | more details pls. | 16:03 |
| kerio | *too little | 16:03 |
| Estel_ | kerio, sure | 16:03 |
| Estel_ | what a lame grammar from my side it was, said yoda | 16:04 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | simply, if wi-fi wouls be disconnected, I can try to connect endlessly, but N900 even don't try to connect - does nothing. | 16:04 |
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| kerio | "yoda said", surely :P | 16:04 |
| kerio | WizardNoNext-PC: anything in dmesg? | 16:04 |
| kerio | or syslog | 16:04 |
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| Estel_ | WizardNoNext-PC, define nothing | 16:05 |
| Estel_ | does wifi icon blinks | 16:06 |
| Estel_ | or what | 16:06 |
| Estel_ | what do you use for enabling and disabling wifi | 16:06 |
| Estel_ | what dmesg or syslog say | 16:06 |
| kerio | Estel_: can't marmistrz fix it? | 16:06 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | I have two private wi-fi networks - one is Cloud7 and other is Cloud7.org (stronger transciver and +5dBi antenna). Usually I use Cloud7.org. As soon as it is disconnected I cannot force N900 to try to connect. I click and nothing happens. But if I would try to connect to Cloud7 instead - no problem | 16:06 |
| Estel_ | kerio, first of all I have no idea, why he upgraded it at all | 16:07 |
| Estel_ | dmesg or syslog, as nothing specific here | 16:08 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | it looks like it tears down NIC after it cannot reconnect. Then when I try to connect it loads firmware, but I have no message about wlan0 being brought up | 16:09 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | yeah, every time same thing. Firmware being loaded, but interface isn't brought up | 16:10 |
| Estel_ | do you use any program for disabling wifi? at all, not only during given situation | 16:10 |
| Estel_ | also, don't assume, just zerobin output | 16:10 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | I do not disable wifi as long as I am home | 16:10 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | give me sec, I would give you those 3 or 4 lines | 16:11 |
| Estel_ | and when you do, how do you disable it | 16:11 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | need to get usb-network up | 16:11 |
| Estel_ | kerio, what was that factoid with bme replacement links? | 16:11 |
| kerio | idk | 16:12 |
| kerio | ~pali | 16:12 |
| infobot | [pali] http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ | 16:12 |
| Estel_ | oh | 16:12 |
| kerio | http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement/ | 16:12 |
| kerio | there you go | 16:12 |
| kerio | i always have to do like three tries | 16:12 |
| kerio | ~bme-replacement | 16:12 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | [14044.814331] wl1251: 151 tx blocks at 0x3b788, 35 rx blocks at 0x3a780 | 16:13 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | [14044.830017] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7) | 16:13 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | [14044.986999] ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): wlan0: link is not ready | 16:13 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | [14050.400085] wl1251: down | 16:13 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | N | 16:13 |
| kerio | infobot: #maemo bme-replacement is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement/ | 16:13 |
| infobot | kerio: okay | 16:13 |
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| WizardNoNext-PC | strange thing is it is trying to connect to some AP with strange name - 8 hexadecimal chars | 16:21 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | and in process this name is changing | 16:21 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | what the hell | 16:21 |
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| WizardNoNext-PC | trial to connect to other network failed as well, but at least icon is flashing, while I am trying to get back on same network icon doesn't change. Output in dmesg and syslog are same for both cases | 16:27 |
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| WizardNoNext-PC | normal connect - first trial - success - http://pastebin.com/QZtxSp4i | 16:41 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | syslog here http://pastebin.com/16hS532G | 16:49 |
| WizardNoNext-PC | more to come | 16:50 |
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| Estel_ | ~bme-replacement | 16:57 |
| infobot | bme-replacement is, like, http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement/ | 16:57 |
| Pali | infobot: bme-replacement is also https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement | 16:58 |
| infobot | Pali: okay | 16:58 |
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| Estel_ | MartinK_N9_, ping | 17:03 |
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| Estel_ | I've tested thoroughly modrana with user agent that mimics firefox one (decided to not use chrome one, in case google inserted some hooks there, that would allow identyfiying us as false user agent) | 17:04 |
| Estel_ | it *seems* that it's much easier to download large batch of data now | 17:04 |
| Estel_ | I've tested it for more than two weeks, since our last conversation | 17:04 |
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| Estel_ | I've never got tempban from google, and downloaded things like batches of 2K satellite tiles at once | 17:04 |
| Estel_ | with *ZERO* failed downloads | 17:05 |
| Estel_ | also, it may be worth, to try separating download threadsa between few google's "mirrors" | 17:05 |
| Estel_ | you know, numbers in url | 17:05 |
| Estel_ | and even option to throotle (down) download speed, i.e. second or more of delays between every 9 tiles or so | 17:06 |
| Estel_ | of course as just option, not default method | 17:06 |
| Estel_ | this makes modrana *much* less detectable as non-browser | 17:06 |
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| jargon | Is the extras repo back? | 17:13 |
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| kerio | yes | 17:17 |
| MartinK_N9_ | Estel_: OK, thanks for the feedback :-) | 17:24 |
| MartinK_N9_ | both seems to be doable | 17:25 |
| MartinK_N9_ | I will let you know once it is in :-) | 17:25 |
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| warfare | We are starting with migration, some sites under maemo.org might be a bit slower.. | 17:57 |
| freemangordon | warfare: wish you luck :) | 17:58 |
| warfare | freemangordon: Thanks :) | 17:58 |
| MartinK_N9_ | good luck ! :-) | 18:01 |
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| jargon | kerio: thanks | 18:08 |
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| marcello_NA | hallo | 20:35 |
| marcello_NA | there is a way to print on maemo? | 20:36 |
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| NIN101 | I think on tmo there are some threads about CUPS etc. | 20:39 |
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| marcello_NA | yes but i do not find solutions | 20:43 |
| marcello_NA | only strange problems on dependencies | 20:43 |
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| eccerr0r | argh...so close... python2.3 is too old to build pidgin... | 21:29 |
| eccerr0r | (in the sdk)... and even the sdk wants to download from r.m.o... :p | 21:29 |
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| kerio | there's python2.7 in extras-devel | 21:32 |
| eccerr0r | yeah... 2.5 is all I need but "MD5Sum mismatch" is plaguing me :D | 21:33 |
| kerio | use extras-devel.merlin1991.at | 21:33 |
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| eccerr0r | hmm... no i386 bins | 21:37 |
| kerio | ah right | 21:38 |
| kerio | :( | 21:38 |
| eccerr0r | oh well still stoked building gtk hello world :D | 21:40 |
| eccerr0r | someone had a configure build log of an older pidgin and it said avahi and meanwhile were found... (then again wtf is meanwhile...) | 21:42 |
| eccerr0r | disabled for now... but not having python2.4 made icd/dbus unhappy and those definitely are needed... | 21:43 |
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| eccerr0r | ah... screw meanwhile (meanwhile.sourceforge.net) I don't need it for my own use... | 21:44 |
| eccerr0r | maybe muck with it later... | 21:45 |
| eccerr0r | still somewhat silly, the sdk vm image has python2.6 on it... but scratchbox does not... sigh... one of the reasons why I despise python - it's still not stable (in terms of language and how they're continually adding more features so quickly, rapidly outdating old interpreters.) | 21:50 |
| kerio | python 2.4 was released in 2004 | 21:52 |
| kerio | that's NINE YEARS AGO | 21:52 |
| kerio | python 2.6 was released in 2008 | 21:52 |
| kerio | and it'll still get security fixes until october 2013 | 21:53 |
| eccerr0r | the SDK DEPENDS on python 2.3... That's what bothers me. | 21:54 |
| eccerr0r | I suspect it's due to supporting the n800, etc., but still, the language changed so much that it breaks it when upgrading | 21:55 |
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| eccerr0r | and these .3, .4, .6, .7 ... are nothing compared to python3. and 3.1 ... Makes me mad having to install two python interpreters on my netbook. | 21:59 |
| kerio | python3 breaks backwards-compatibility, yes | 22:00 |
| eccerr0r | oh, and python3.2 is out. | 22:00 |
| kerio | 3.3.0 is the current stable | 22:01 |
| eccerr0r | even worse... too many versions... | 22:01 |
| eccerr0r | lucky that bash4 can still run bash1 scripts. | 22:01 |
| kerio | i really don't see why a python3 script that works on 3.0.0 wouldn't work on 3.3.0 | 22:02 |
| eccerr0r | granted perl5 had issues with perl4 scripts too... but a lot still worked... | 22:03 |
| kerio | except that this is more like perl 5 and perl 6 | 22:03 |
| eccerr0r | I don't know why the SDK is still 2.3 | 22:03 |
| eccerr0r | there are like 4 copies of python on the sdk... | 22:04 |
| eccerr0r | 2.3 is for scratchbox? 2.5-armel and 2.5-i386 for compatibility testing, and 2.6 for ubuntu | 22:05 |
| kerio | eccerr0r: apparently it's possible to do without scratchbox | 22:05 |
| kerio | download the rootstrap, make it a chroot jail, install compilers there | 22:06 |
| eccerr0r | I'm sure it is, but why wasn't the 2.3 copy upgraded? python instability problem... :p | 22:06 |
| kerio | scratchbox is a piece of crap | 22:07 |
| kerio | and besides, there's no way to update it at the moment | 22:07 |
| kerio | scratchbox.org is down | 22:07 |
| eccerr0r | not like scratchbox is the only program plagued by python... though I'm glad gentoo/portage is still being updated to take in new python interpreters... but the 3.x jump is apparently still a problem... | 22:09 |
| kerio | yes, it's a different language | 22:09 |
| kerio | it's also 5 years old | 22:09 |
| eccerr0r | I don't even want to know what python4 will look like | 22:10 |
| kerio | probably very similar to python 3 and python 2 | 22:10 |
| kerio | why? | 22:10 |
| eccerr0r | imagine if english changed every 5 years such that we would not understand each other in 10 years... | 22:10 |
| kerio | english is a natural language | 22:11 |
| kerio | and it changed *quite a lot* | 22:12 |
| eccerr0r | it has changed but the structure remains the same... mostly nouns and verbs that are added | 22:13 |
| kerio | and python's structure is still pretty much identical | 22:14 |
| eccerr0r | but backward compatibility broke. | 22:14 |
| kerio | yep | 22:14 |
| eccerr0r | unacceptable. | 22:14 |
| kerio | huh... ok | 22:15 |
| eccerr0r | if language changes, it should change gradually... provide simple workarounds if there's something that must change drastically... | 22:18 |
| kerio | like all the tiny changes in python2, or the 2to3 converter provided for python3? | 22:18 |
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| eccerr0r | the tiny changes in python2, why should scripts in 2.3 break under 2.7? | 22:19 |
| kerio | the biggest offender is the changed try/except syntax | 22:20 |
| kerio | hm, actually maybe not even that | 22:21 |
| kerio | ok, the huge change is that you can't raise strings as exceptions, and "with" is not a valid name anymore | 22:22 |
| kerio | so... why should scripts in 2.3 break under 2.7? | 22:33 |
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| sardini | hi | 22:39 |
| eccerr0r | if programs in the past were written with these constructs, they would break in 2.7. | 22:47 |
| eccerr0r | bad programming style? probably. but it still breaks... it's a python problem that didn't specify these were "bad" to begin with. | 22:48 |
| kerio | are you saying that it's a python problem that decided to add features? | 22:50 |
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| eccerr0r | no, it's a problem when backward compatibility breaks. | 23:06 |
| eccerr0r | well, breaks frequently enough such that you need to keep multiple versions around... | 23:10 |
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| kerio | except that python 2.3 is NINE YEARS OLD | 23:11 |
| eccerr0r | nine years to python 2.7? | 23:12 |
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| eccerr0r | nine years to python 2._5_ ? | 23:12 |
| kerio | seven years to 2.7 | 23:12 |
| kerio | the OH SO AWFUL compatibility break that you still haven't provided us a sample of happened with python 2.6 | 23:13 |
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| eccerr0r | I just need a good explanation why the SDK has 2.3 | 23:13 |
| kerio | because it was made in 2003? | 23:14 |
| eccerr0r | and the SDK has 2.5 python on it too!!! | 23:14 |
| eccerr0r | If they were compatible why wasn't the same 2.5 used for the whole SDK? | 23:15 |
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| kerio | i don't know, i didn't make scratchbox | 23:17 |
| kerio | there's also three separate versions of apt | 23:18 |
| eccerr0r | yeah that's annoying too... but application levels I don't hold to as high standard as languages. | 23:19 |
| kerio | except that apt/dpkg also includes dpkg-buildpackage and dh_* and those are used oh so fucking everywhere when building packages | 23:20 |
| eccerr0r | 1152 user 117m S /usr/bin/hildon-status-menu | 23:25 |
| eccerr0r | ouch | 23:25 |
| eccerr0r | need to prune widgets. | 23:27 |
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