IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-06-17

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Guest28766merlin1991, thank you for your help this afternoon, my armel scratchbox seems to be recovered.00:07
merlin1991:)00:07
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Guest28766I am wondering, why it was decided not to upload x86 packages for cssu00:08
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DocScrutinizer05I'd think it's about wheter they are built on buildserver, or not00:13
DocScrutinizer05for now AIUI nothing of CSSU is built on buildserver00:13
DocScrutinizer05but MohammadAG and merlin1991 should know better details on that00:14
merlin1991simply because certain parts don't build on the buildserver00:14
DocScrutinizer05again AIUI all this will change soonish, with COBS00:14
merlin1991and mag said he's not going to build everything twice all the time00:15
DocScrutinizer05buenas tardes merlin199100:16
merlin1991and also ack about cobs00:16
DocScrutinizer05:-D00:16
merlin1991we'll probably have build for everything thanks to cobs when it arrives :)00:16
DocScrutinizer05even for 400400:16
DocScrutinizer05and PDP1100:16
DocScrutinizer05;-P00:16
M4rtinKdon't forget MMIX and Ural 2 :)00:22
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M4rtinKBTW, it is already possible to use the Harmattan target in COBS to build architecture independent packages00:27
M4rtinKI'm using it for bleeding-edge Fremantle repository for my Python programs00:28
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: nice :-)00:29
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M4rtinKthe auto-rebuild is kinda nice00:31
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M4rtinKand I have a script that pulls code from Git, creates a source package and uploads it to Harmattan and Fremantle repos (due to different icons sizes & startup scripts) :)00:32
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M4rtinKits quite convenient like this :)00:34
DocScrutinizer05M4rtinK: maybe you should wrizte some sort of bölogpost or wiki_miniHowTo about that stuff?00:35
DocScrutinizer05dang, if you find typos you can keep them  ;-)00:36
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zeqIs there a guide for updating the SDK to CSSU?00:39
zeqI've resolved my fakeroot issue now00:39
DocScrutinizer05alas not AFAIK00:39
zeqI'm having trouble with repos00:39
DocScrutinizer05but then, since SDK should be compatible to stock fremantle, as is supposed for CSSU, I don't see much of an issue anyway00:40
zeqis there an example sources.list that works from the sdk?00:40
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M4rtinKDocScrutinizer05: IIRC ZogG promised to write a COBS Howto :)00:41
zeqI tried using the one from the device, but I'm missing packages after update00:41
DocScrutinizer05for anything except CSSU genuine patches, there shouldn't be any issue with SDK00:41
zeqhmm00:41
ZogGM4rtinK, still have errors on building00:41
ZogGpasted the main make package stages, now trying to optimize it to build properly on obs00:42
DocScrutinizer05again - discalimer AIUI and better ask you mom and dad, err merlin1991and MohammadAG (who is your father anyway ;-D )00:42
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M4rtinKZogG: could it be caused by parallel build ?00:42
zeq:)00:43
DocScrutinizer05zeq: CSSU is NOT changing API or ABI00:43
M4rtinKlooks like OBS by default runs build in 4 threads, including packaging scripts00:43
M4rtinKI had some issues with it breaking GTK or other packages00:44
zeqI'm planning on building thumb packages00:44
DocScrutinizer05aaah that's a whole new story00:44
ZogGM4rtinK, nope i have dep error the funny thing that it's from other deb i included00:44
M4rtinKweird00:44
DocScrutinizer05talk to freemangordon @ #maemo-ssu about it00:44
zeqok00:45
ZogGM4rtinK, it's funny tht i include account but the error on what it includes and i have it in control file00:45
M4rtinKZogG: does that deb build successfully ?00:45
DocScrutinizer05zeq: anyway I can't see CSSU mainline ever supporting thumb00:45
ZogGwhile rzr build same thing succsefully with scratchbox mine fails00:45
DocScrutinizer05since this IS breaking ABI00:45
M4rtinKwell, I have a few packages00:46
M4rtinKthat build in local OBS build, but not in COBS :)00:46
ZogGM4rtinK, i had few debs build but they were build wierd when no execution file was copied to device =)00:46
ZogGthat one in apps4meego00:46
ZogGrequested X-Fade to delete it00:46
M4rtinKand for a while one of the GTK packages that would build in one project and not i another similar one :)00:46
DocScrutinizer05zeq: you shouldn't develop apps for thunb only, anyway00:47
DocScrutinizer05zeq: there's no sane reason and rationale usually to not support stock maemo and CSSU as well00:47
M4rtinKZogG: so does it build in your OBS project ?00:47
ZogGnopi build it with qtcreator00:47
ZogGnow i build it with script to mke it to obs00:48
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DocScrutinizer05zeq: and if your app is written in a clean style, it shouldn't matter at all whether you compile it for thumb or for ARM00:48
M4rtinKand the resulting source package builds successfully in your OBS project ?00:48
ZogGbut it's still failling in normal way e.g. i need to make qmake -project otherwise it fails to make makefile00:48
ZogGM4rtinK source package is built fine00:49
M4rtinKbut it won't compile ?00:49
ZogGi get with hacks to deps fail00:49
M4rtinKin OBs at all ?00:49
merlin1991ZogG: is there a repo?00:49
merlin1991I can look at it aswell00:49
ZogGM4rtinK, in normal way not it took me trying options with qmake to find out it need -project00:49
ZogGnow the problem with deps00:50
ZogGmerlin1991, rzr managed to build it but with manual rules, thought i need one from qtcreator as i need to compile there and it's already mess00:51
zeqDocScrutinizer: thumb2 doesn't work on stock (or current CSSU)00:51
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DocScrutinizer05zeq: what I said00:51
DocScrutinizer05but it's the compiler that creates thumb2 code from plain clean c code00:51
zeqoh yes, didn't scroll back far enough :)00:52
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DocScrutinizer05same way it creates clean straight ARM from same c code00:52
DocScrutinizer05and all that is completely unrelated to any supposed changes that actually do *not* come with CSSU00:53
ZogGmerlin1991, https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=imgrup&project=home%3AZogG00:53
zeqI know. My only thought, perhaps incorrect, was that CSSU(-thumb) might have newer non-core libs to develop against00:53
merlin1991anyway ZogG if you want to you can give me a quick pm with details what works/not a link to the code and I'll have a look (I have qt creator and scratchbox here)00:53
DocScrutinizer05zeq: I dunno about CSSU-thumb, though I'd guess it shouldn't have anything like that00:54
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ZogGmerlin1991 lemme show you almost last source of project for qtcreator and script for packaging than00:54
DocScrutinizer05CSSU (minus thumb) for sure doesn't00:54
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zeqThe plan is to port the harmatten fennec git00:54
zeqcode00:55
DocScrutinizer05so first port it to fremantle core00:55
DocScrutinizer05if it worlks there, it also works on CSSU00:55
zeqI could I suppose :)00:55
DocScrutinizer05then you go and rebuild it under CSSU-thumb00:55
ZogGmerlin1991, https://github.com/funkycode/imgrup here is source code00:56
zeqfennec non-thumv pushes memory capacity though00:56
DocScrutinizer05and it should build there flawlessly00:56
ZogGmerlin1991, generate-obs-source is the script for making source and tar.gz00:56
zeqI'll do that00:56
DocScrutinizer05:-D00:56
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: any comments re above?00:58
merlin1991zeq: unless fennec is built on top of qt you don't have any important improved system libs to use00:58
zeqI was planning to00:59
DocScrutinizer05even qt libs might be improved but should not break ABI, no?00:59
merlin1991yeah they only have a bit more stuff in them00:59
merlin1991ZogG: and qt creator buliding still works?01:00
DocScrutinizer05which doesn't hurt, as long as you don't use that additional stuff01:00
ZogGmerlin1991, yes though i don't know if it's reltted but now i have no delete red x on desctop icon01:01
ZogGbut it might be on my phone end as did't heard anyone complaiing01:01
DocScrutinizer05so - as long as you don't *NEED* to use these new bits - you're better off building against stock fremantle, then port to CSSU and maybe even CSSU-thumb01:01
DocScrutinizer05(where "port to CSSU" is basically a null-op)01:02
zeqI'm not sure if I won't. depends what the harmattan code does01:02
DocScrutinizer05:nod:01:02
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DocScrutinizer05try hard to avoid though, please01:02
zeqI thought it best to minimize differences01:02
DocScrutinizer05zeq: you don't want to segregate 90% of N900 users01:03
zeq90% not on CSSU?01:03
DocScrutinizer05at least01:03
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zeqthey need some outreach :)01:04
DocScrutinizer05zeq: so now you got the whole picture, and the perspective. Act accordingly01:05
zeqwill do01:05
DocScrutinizer05thanks01:05
zeqIt's a slight culture-shock for me, comming from gentoo ;)01:07
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MohammadAGYeah, no server side builds01:09
MohammadAGIt's costly, for the servers01:09
MohammadAGWe don't want to hold a server to build Qt01:10
M4rtinKI've seen a KDE build on COBS :)01:11
M4rtinKit takes a while01:11
M4rtinK...on a dozen of workers :)01:11
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ZogG_laptopzeq: gentoo <301:14
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* DocScrutinizer05 waves at MohammadAG01:21
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Flazgarhi02:34
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FlazgarI've a keyboard problem using easy debian on my nokia n900.02:34
FlazgarCan somebody help me ?02:35
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DocScrutinizer05sure02:50
DocScrutinizer05~ask02:50
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.02:50
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DocScrutinizer05lemme guess - the return key doesn't work like expected?02:51
DocScrutinizer05meh, drive-by asker02:52
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* DocScrutinizer05 ponders to write a bot plugin to handle those join-ask-leave events, at least next time same nick/host shows up02:53
DocScrutinizer05hmm, chanlog doesn't show any leave event for flazgar02:55
DocScrutinizer05makes me wonder how reasonable it is to log join/leave but not to log nick events02:56
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DocScrutinizer05whowas FTW02:58
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: [01:51:16] <-- Flazgar (6d0d4526@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.13.69.38) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)03:01
DocScrutinizer05duh03:02
DocScrutinizer05logs lag a bit03:02
merlin1991hm should write a log interface for my quassel core03:03
merlin1991after all I have the complete chanhistory within a relational database03:03
merlin1991well "complete" as in since I use quassel :)03:03
DocScrutinizer05you got that *where*??03:03
merlin1991on my root server :)03:04
merlin1991inside a postgres db xD03:04
merlin1991now scream :)03:04
* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders what's primary key on that table03:04
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merlin1991sec03:04
DocScrutinizer05ouch03:04
DocScrutinizer05now make that nodupkey and doom starts03:05
merlin1991hm how does one check the table definiton in psql03:05
merlin1991I always forget03:05
DocScrutinizer05nfc03:05
merlin1991 messageid | integer                     | not null default nextval('backlog_messageid_seq'::regclass)03:06
DocScrutinizer05SQL is none of my active languages03:06
merlin1991current index is 6889897 xD03:08
* DocScrutinizer05 once implemented a whole dialin info system with a "database" based on a plain text file plus grep03:08
DocScrutinizer05now I finally seem to recall what I didn't like with quassel ;-D03:09
merlin1991though I have 3 users running on that03:10
merlin1991673165 lines of #maemo log up till now03:11
DocScrutinizer05seems to me like a plain text file per channel, with one global append-handle plus a read-handle per user should suffice03:12
merlin1991well that makes it hard to buffer specific parts back to multiple clients that randomly connect to your core03:12
merlin1991unless you write some blackmagic indexes into your file every so and so bytes03:13
DocScrutinizer05hmm, yep. It's not exactly good design for adding clients on the fly03:13
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DocScrutinizer05each new client needs his own process with read-handle set to EOF03:13
DocScrutinizer05then read again to EOF for each spooling out03:14
DocScrutinizer05but redo arbitrary spools is not exactly supported by that architecture03:14
merlin1991and how do you give a client parts of the log when he request gimme history from that and that time?03:14
DocScrutinizer05^^^03:14
merlin1991:D03:15
DocScrutinizer05I'd still go for a plain text file, with grep ;-D03:15
DocScrutinizer05or awk03:15
merlin1991but one thing I can definitely do better is timestamp / nick based search ;)03:16
DocScrutinizer05hell, the overhead for RDBMS is overkill, compared to an *occasional* grep over a few dozen MB03:16
merlin1991yeah :P03:16
merlin1991hm 324241 distinct nicks are logged on the server03:17
DocScrutinizer05esp since your "primary key" (the start of line timestamp) is strictly monotone03:17
merlin1991hah, but you can't combine information from multiple channels easily!03:17
merlin1991;)03:17
DocScrutinizer05why the heck would anybody wanna do that?03:18
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merlin1991because ie here people go with discussions from ie #maemo to #maemo-ssu and add some additional info in #harmattan?03:19
DocScrutinizer05lol, so quassel is supposed to filter that out via SQL query?03:19
merlin1991don't think quassel can do that :D03:19
merlin1991but at least $sql nerd can do it on the db xD03:19
DocScrutinizer05suuuure03:20
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merlin1991well tbh I don't see an argument pro sql db for quassel03:21
merlin1991except, that it probably eased the development process for the dev03:21
merlin1991AND03:21
merlin1991the core is designed to scale to thousands of users03:21
merlin1991there you can run into problems with too many file descriptors03:21
merlin1991though for $average guy there is no point to have a db behind an irc client :D03:22
DocScrutinizer05man 1 sort -> Write sorted concatenation of all FILE(s) to standard output.03:22
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merlin1991now do that for 500 users with lets say 5 chans each03:23
merlin1991then the fun starts03:24
DocScrutinizer05I'll still beat your SQL nerd with unix file toolbox and shell, hands down03:24
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DocScrutinizer05jr@HaleBopp:~/halley2/home/jr/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs> time (sort freenode_#openmoko.log|wc -l)03:31
DocScrutinizer0573037903:31
DocScrutinizer05real    0m9.165s03:31
* DocScrutinizer05 every now and then is mildly shocked about speed of contemporary hw03:32
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DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 jr users 67863040  2. Jun 20:57 freenode_#openmoko.log03:33
DocScrutinizer05jr@HaleBopp:~/halley2/home/jr/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs> time (grep jhg freenode_#openmoko.log|wc -l)03:36
DocScrutinizer05303:36
DocScrutinizer05real    0m0.094s03:36
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DocScrutinizer05jr@HaleBopp:~/halley2/home/jr/.kde/share/apps/konversation/logs> time (grep -B 999999 'Mo Okt 20 2008' freenode_#openmoko.log|grep -A 99999 'Mi Sep 10 2008'|wc -l)03:52
DocScrutinizer0510205003:52
DocScrutinizer05real    0m1.796s03:52
DocScrutinizer05seems incorrect though03:53
DocScrutinizer05dang, it's actually looking like there are 102k valid chanpost lines (incl join/quit/nick) from Mi Sep 10 2008 to Mo Okt 20 200803:55
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o povbot05:46
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DocScrutinizer05~botsnack05:47
infobotDocScrutinizer05: aw, gee05:47
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: anyway http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=**+ChanServ+sets+mode%3A+%2Bo06:45
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DocScrutinizer05(re "how much chan moderation been needed in the past?")06:46
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Hurrianw09:37
Hurriandamn, that's the second time IRC commands got chopped by mIRC focusing new tabs09:37
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kerioHurrian: that's what you deserve for using mirc10:20
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Hurriankerio, I prefer XChat, but the styling just seems ever so off on Windows10:24
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Guest28766merlin1991, thanks for you help yesterday, navit built against CSSU qt libraries went smooth.11:55
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cityLightshi all , where to read the ssu changelog?13:53
cityLightsplease13:53
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cityLightsalso, is anyone aware of any tizen news? like, when can I buy a device with a working tizen?13:53
* SpeedEvil sighs.13:54
SpeedEvilI am getting confused at dead projects.13:54
maybeArghdivide & conquer13:56
SpeedEvilSo... Maemo, harmattan, meltimi, meego, moblin,13:58
SpeedEvilIs Limo dead?13:58
scp1http://i.japh.se/n900/rp.png damdidam13:58
SpeedEvil:)13:58
SpeedEvilAh - limo got eaten by tizen13:59
scp1meh is anything of all that producing any code?14:00
SpeedEvilScrew code.14:00
SpeedEvilReleased hardware.14:00
scp1as the situation is I'm confident I'll stay with n900/n950/n9 for quite some years into the future, because vendors simply doesn't seem to care about us14:01
SpeedEvil:/14:01
SpeedEvilhttp://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/02/preorders-begin-for-spark-the-open-kde-tablet/14:02
SpeedEvilsort-of14:02
scp1sure but that's just a toy. or what's the purpose?14:02
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SpeedEvilAnd yes, there is that.14:03
SpeedEvilTo do anything more than 'toy' - you need much more investment.14:03
scp1at least in this area yeah14:04
scp1sadly14:04
scp1I wonder how the talk is going in nokia hc ... I haven't seen or even heard of anyone who bought/were interested in their windows phones.14:05
scp1maybe the situation is different elsewhere14:06
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SpeedEvilSacking almost all developers isn't exactly positive.14:07
scp1and they had such a great thing going :(14:07
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scp1I guess breaking up with ms now would cost nokia more than what the company's worth14:08
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MrPingu~seen Estel_15:40
infobotestel_ <~Estel@Maemo/Community/council/Estel-> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16h 12m 35s ago, saying: 'side effect - camera doesnt work too, despite fact, that - apparently - camera module is ok'.15:40
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fastaIn what channels, if any do you ask your advanced Linux questions? I am finding that the signal to noise ration has become so low, it's much more efficient to figure out everything myself.15:56
fastaratio*15:56
SpeedEvil:/15:56
Macerhahaha15:56
Macerfasta: i'd have to agree with you there ;)15:57
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Macermost of it is "My printer works in windows but not in Linux can someone help me figure it out?????"15:57
fastaEven some developer channels are now getting infected with such issues.15:57
Macer"linux sucks because my $10 lexmark printer doesn't work!15:57
fastaMacer: no, more like "I stated information elements X, Y and Z, and then people ask whether Z holds."15:58
Macerwell.. there is option b.. .start your own # and lay down iron fisted control of it15:58
fastaMacer: or asking 'what's the problem' after 3 minutes, which means that they don't know how to setup IRC properly.15:58
fastaThere are IRC logs too, so if people really wanted to help, they could just have read that.15:59
Macermost of the time people just don't know how to fix the issue you're having... i agree with you that it is usually easier to simply figure it out yourself15:59
Macerfasta: yeah but who wants to go find logs or scroll up for someone else's problem? ;)15:59
fastaMacer: right, but instead of those people just shutting up, they 'try to help'.15:59
Macerheh.. what makes it worse is that most of the ones trying to help are 2 week windows converts who think because they run ubuntu they are linux experts16:00
fastaMacer: or very recently, I had a Gentoo user.16:00
Macergentoo users are a special breed16:01
fastaMacer: he thought me using Ubuntu was a very bad insult.16:01
Maceryeah. that is typical.16:01
fastaMacer: of course, everyone who works at Google is also retarded.16:01
fasta(by the same logic)16:01
Macerubuntu is great for the end user.. personally i'd rather use kubuntu16:01
Macerbut as far as a linux distro that simply works after installed it is the closest thing16:01
fastaMacer: well, I installed Ubuntu, but use Kubuntu packages.16:01
Macerheh.. then why not just use kubuntu ;)16:02
Macerpersonally i love kde16:02
fastaMacer: I didn't know that when I installed, and I tried all of them.16:02
fastaMacer: I think I still have all of them installed.16:02
fastaMacer: I have the resources, so why not?16:02
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Macerthey're all the same anyways just a different ui16:02
fastaMacer: yeah, the terminal is the most important.16:02
Macerheh... don't tell that to the converts ;)16:02
Macerif you can't click to fix it just isn't worth it16:03
fastaI am very much passed the point where I care whether other people use it.16:03
DocScrutinizer05cityLights: /join #maemo-ssu see /topic16:03
Macerwell. that makes 1... about 2 billion more to go16:03
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fastaAnyway, this channel is still not infected, although people might regard this as noise, which I suppose it is in some way.16:04
Macernot really16:04
Macerspeaking of which.. if anybody wants to buy my n900 with a jacked up sim reader let me know :-P16:04
Macerchecks not accepted16:04
Maceri'll give it up for $10016:05
Macer(plus shipping)16:05
Macerother than the flakey sim reader it works great16:05
Macerone of you electronic nerds might be able to fix it16:05
SpeedEvilhmm16:05
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DocScrutinizer05fasta: WUT? this channel has almost worst S/N I ever seen16:09
* ShadowJK doubts it's actually sim reader16:09
fastaDocScrutinizer05: which channels do you think have high S/N then?16:10
ShadowJKbecause on my devices also emergency calls, which work without sim, got disabled :P16:10
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DocScrutinizer05fasta: would you be surprised when I got reasons not to mention their names?16:10
MacerShadowJK: weird16:10
Macerdid you actually try calling 911 with it? lol16:11
ShadowJKcrossed out sim icon is just generic "modem failure" icon it seems16:11
fastaDocScrutinizer05: well, you can send me in private message, unless you think I am also one of those morons.16:11
Maceryeah but my logs seem to show the sim reader failing16:11
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Maceras though it keeps losing it over and over... maybe it was some software issue but i haven't tried to flash it yet to stock16:12
ShadowJKoh? Paste?16:12
Macerit's CSSU's fault!16:12
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* Macer hides16:12
MacerShadowJK: i really can't now... i honestly don't even know where my n900 is.. it's in my house somewhere collecting dust16:12
Macerbut i noticed it resetting over and over in the logs16:12
ShadowJKi've never seen logs showing sim reader failing16:12
DocScrutinizer05don't fall for macer, he's assuming it#s SIM holder though odds are it's usual modem chip defect16:13
ShadowJKYeah I've only seen modem crashing.16:13
MacerDocScrutinizer05: oh :-/ my bad.. figured it was a reader error16:13
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Macerwell.. i think it's still under warranty if someone wants to buy it for $100.. it's a UK based phone tho so nokia will only accept it from the UK :-/16:14
Macerwhich totally sucks16:14
ShadowJKlast time I checked, device bought in eu has eu wide warranty16:14
Macerthere is no way for me to ship it to the UK through their methods in order to honor the warranty16:14
MacerShadowJK: when i contacted nokia they said it was UK not EU16:14
ShadowJK(plus norway and switzerland, iirc)16:14
DocScrutinizer05you should swap it for a XY-7 and sell that other shite, or keep it16:14
Macerdon't dis my lumia 900 :)16:15
Macerit's actually a lot better than most people think16:15
Maceryou're just spoiled by the n900 heh16:15
ShadowJKMaking distinction between "UK" and "EU" is weird anyhow, there's no EU version of the phone16:15
MacerShadowJK: i guess... either way... going from US to UK to send in is impossible16:16
Macerit has to originate from the UK Post16:16
ShadowJKWell for sure both "UK" and "EU" aren't accepted by us nokia care16:16
Maceri forgot the exact method but it has to be brought to the UK Post with a printed label.. it sucks.16:16
MacerShadowJK: nope :(16:17
Macerfree trade in action16:17
Maceri would guess that nokia is nokia but i guess geological positions matter to them16:17
Maceri mean it really doesn't matter to me.. i left tmobile anyways so i most likely wouldn't be using the n900 even if it did work. it was the only thing keeping me with tmobile16:18
ShadowJKSo in other words, you never tried to excercise the eu wide warranty, and this entire screenful of debate was entirely pointless?16:18
Macerso maybe its for the better ;)16:18
MacerShadowJK: i did.. i asked nokia if i could ship it overseas but they said that it would be impossible since you had to send it out using some UK post type of thing16:18
Macertheir answer was the phone originated from the UK and it would have to be shipped from the UK to nokia uk16:19
ShadowJKAh, so you didn't16:19
ShadowJKthat clears things up16:19
Maceri tried.. but there isn't a way to go USPS to UK PO16:19
Maceri can probably dig up the email with the rma instructions.. but it really is pointless.. i just wrote the n900 off16:19
Maceras a defective device (2 of 2)16:20
ShadowJKTrying to send eu device from outside of eu to eu for service is same thing as trying to service eu device outside of eu16:20
Macermy first was the usb port then this one the sim reader/modem16:20
MacerShadowJK: you can take a mercedez in to be repaired at a US based mercedez shop :-P16:20
ShadowJKThat's their policy16:20
Maceri guess.. so nokia's is regions are different16:21
ShadowJKBut as for the original claim that a UK device has no warranty in the EU outside of UK, that's false16:21
Macerit's not the EU tho16:21
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Macernor did the EU ever come up in my conversation with customer support16:21
Macerit's US for a UK originated phone16:21
Macerand i was told it had to be sent via UK based PO16:22
Macerthere was no way to send it to them via USPS to their UK warranty center16:22
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Macerthe EU/UK part is irrelevant16:23
Macergiven my circumstance16:23
Macerso i guess you were right earlier.. it was pointless :)16:23
Maceranyways... if anybody wants it let me know.. i'll take $100 for it.. maybe you can send it in or something and get somthing else16:24
Macerotherwise i'll put it up on ebay and see if ther are any takers for my 2nd broken n900... NOKIA FTW16:24
Macerlets see if the lumia lasts longer than 1 year :)16:25
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_PanzerSajtping freemangordon19:30
freemangordon_PanzerSajt: pong19:30
_PanzerSajthy19:30
freemangordonhi19:30
_PanzerSajtSo19:30
_PanzerSajtyes the kernel is woking fine19:30
freemangordonbut?19:30
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_PanzerSajtbut some modules are still missing19:31
freemangordonfor example?19:31
_PanzerSajtand some are present but nor working in the way we need19:31
freemangordondo you have some list?19:31
_PanzerSajthere is a documentation how the stock kernel works19:31
_PanzerSajthttp://natisbad.org/N900/n900-commented-hardware-specs.html19:31
_PanzerSajtand most of these modules are present but not working correctly19:32
_PanzerSajtfor example the accelerometer19:32
_PanzerSajt./sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord file doesn't exist19:33
_PanzerSajtbut the folders exist19:33
freemangordonhmm, I see19:33
_PanzerSajtand the vibra also19:33
freemangordondid anyone tried to build newer kernel?19:33
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_PanzerSajtthe led module is woking but not driving the vibra19:34
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_PanzerSajtI think yes19:34
_PanzerSajtbut I think there were problems with the size19:34
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_PanzerSajtit was too big for the U-boot bootloader I think19:35
_PanzerSajtbut if you could compile a newer kernel19:35
_PanzerSajtor at least provide me soma useful information19:35
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freemangordon_PanzerSajt: well, I think I could help, but cannot be the driving force behind that.19:35
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freemangordonif you have the questions, I could try to answer19:36
freemangordonbut as I see it, it is a matter of forward-poering the drivers19:36
freemangordon*porting19:36
_PanzerSajtok first how good are you in licensing?19:36
freemangordonyou mean are kernel drivers FOSS?19:37
_PanzerSajtyes19:37
freemangordonyep, the whole kernel is GPLEed19:37
freemangordonno problems with licensing for the kernel19:37
freemangordonAFAIK19:37
_PanzerSajtand the kernel used in maemo contains only free drivers?19:39
_PanzerSajtfor example these: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/19:39
freemangordonyes, there is no other way19:39
_PanzerSajtand how can we compile these modules and use them later?19:40
_PanzerSajtjust to point out: I have never compiled any kernel19:41
freemangordon_PanzerSajt: you need to forward-port them. I.e. make them compilable and compatible with whatever changes there are between 2.6.28.10 ( maemo5 kernel) and the kernel version you are forward-porting to.19:42
_PanzerSajtcurrently we are using 2.6.3719:44
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_PanzerSajtso the reason why some drivers are not working correctly is that the newer kernel works in a different way?19:44
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freemangordonyes. and it is Nemo one actually.19:45
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_PanzerSajtoh thanks19:45
_PanzerSajtthen I think I should learn how linux kernel works19:45
freemangordon_PanzerSajt: :D19:46
_PanzerSajtIt's too complicated for me right now19:46
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_PanzerSajtand what about the omap-kernel19:47
freemangordon_PanzerSajt: you may start with setting up a build environment (SB2 should do the job) and cloning the 2.6.37 kernel tree (Nemo one) from here19:47
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freemangordonhmm, cannot find it right now, let me check in Ubuntu thread on TMO19:49
_PanzerSajtok19:50
_PanzerSajtand what is the main difference between scratchbox and sb2?19:50
merlin1991the way it works19:51
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_PanzerSajtand I assume the sb2 is bettet, right?19:51
_PanzerSajt*better19:52
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freemangordon_PanzerSajt: here https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-device-adaptation/n900_kernel19:52
freemangordonthe difference is you wont be able to compile 2.6.37 with gcc 4.2.1 AFAIK19:53
_PanzerSajtand sb2 exists only in source code on git?19:57
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freemangordon_PanzerSajt: NFC. I used gcc 4.6.2 (the one I am using to build -thumb stuff) to build nemo kernel in SB1. But you should setup a new environmemnt in SB, read #maemo logs from yesterday for howto do it20:00
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_PanzerSajtone question remains: how I can read the log from yesterday?20:01
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_PanzerSajtsorry for these noob questions20:03
freemangordon_PanzerSajt: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/20:03
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freemangordon_PanzerSajt: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-06-16.log.html#t2012-06-16T18:28:4420:06
_PanzerSajtfreemangordon, yes I have found thanks20:07
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_PanzerSajtfreemangordon, different topic, but can you help me how can I remap the keyboard layout on N900 with ubuntu so that pressing two specified key would emulate a TAB being pressed20:21
freemangordon_PanzerSajt: sorry, cannot help.20:22
_PanzerSajtno problem20:22
_PanzerSajtso now I have installed the -core and -libs package20:23
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_PanzerSajtfreemangordon, nevermind I will try it later20:25
_PanzerSajtand thanks for your help20:25
freemangordonnp20:26
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DocScrutinizer05_PanzerSajt: ctrl-i traditionally is meant to mean <tab>20:48
_PanzerSajtDocScrutinizer, oh really thanks20:49
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DocScrutinizer05of course this will only work on char level, not on keycode level20:50
DocScrutinizer05i.e usually on any line discipline20:50
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_PanzerSajtmy initial purpose was to use it in terminal20:51
_PanzerSajtand it works great20:51
DocScrutinizer05apps that scan the keycodes will not recognize ctrl-i as <tab>20:51
_PanzerSajtok that's fine20:51
DocScrutinizer05yes, shell is the prototypical case where it should work20:52
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DocScrutinizer05except for fullscreen apps, like e.g. htop, which may or may not work with ctr-i as tab-substituate20:53
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_PanzerSajtsince we don't have any tab key on N900 and I can't live without it I was always ssh-ing just to have TAB20:53
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DocScrutinizer05well, you got a true TAB key on the xterm softkeys20:54
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DocScrutinizer05(at least I thought it's there by default)20:54
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_PanzerSajtyeah but I'm using ubuntu on N900 right now20:55
DocScrutinizer05aah, yes. Forgot20:55
_PanzerSajtfinally we managed to get dsp-working20:56
_PanzerSajtnow I'm searching for a graphical player that can use it20:56
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DocScrutinizer05well, I'm no friend of the approach to come from a bare bones standard system like ubuntu or open-embedded, and then try to add in all the stuff needed to support the platform. I prefer to come from an already working "board support package" like maemo fremantle and add-in/replace the stuff I'm missing and can cherrypick on e.g ubuntu20:59
_PanzerSajtyes but the problem for me that in mamemo some packages are outdated and the whole system is customized so it is not so simple to run your desired app21:03
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DocScrutinizer05well, it seems way simpler than making your desired distro replace maemo21:08
DocScrutinizer05outdated packages can get updated (something we do constantly over at CSSU)21:08
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DocScrutinizer05while even for open components in maemo there are often inferior upstream implementations, esp when it comes to kernel driver modules etc21:11
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_PanzerSajtyes that's right21:13
_PanzerSajtcurrently the thumb-2 cssu looks very interesting21:13
DocScrutinizer05nevertheless it breaks ABI compatibility so you can't expect cssu-thumb to play nice with standard apps21:14
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: tend to disagree21:15
freemangordonno ABI is broken21:15
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freemangordonyou can execute your ARM stuff in thumb2 environment21:15
DocScrutinizer05if you manage to compile a kernel that's loading your random custom closed source module binary just fine, I'd agree21:15
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DocScrutinizer05if you can't, it's just as incompatible as powerkernel is21:16
_PanzerSajtwith ubuntu we have armhf kernel with thumb2 enabled21:16
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: aah, since when Nokia customised omap1 kernel is the standard for ABI?21:18
DocScrutinizer05well, ABI maybe not the exact term. OK21:18
freemangordonanyway, I am in gdb again, I'd better focus on it :)21:19
DocScrutinizer05anyway as long as apps like BlessN900 camera app come with drivers that don't work under that patched kernel, I think that's a compatibility issue21:20
DocScrutinizer05and the issue is with kernel, not with the app21:21
DocScrutinizer05and nobody knows how many apps are out there that do stuff like that21:21
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DocScrutinizer05well, for somebody running ubuntu rather than maemo on N900 it's probably massively irrelevant21:22
_PanzerSajtyes but I'm still interested in everything in connection with n90021:22
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_PanzerSajtdo you know any other smartphone or tablet that runs linux and it can be considered as modern (max 2 years old)21:28
DocScrutinizer05some think android==linux21:29
_PanzerSajtno android is just based on linux21:30
_PanzerSajtit has some differences in kernel also21:30
DocScrutinizer05tell that my coleagues at work ;-D21:30
_PanzerSajtbut basically it is just a virtual machine21:30
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DocScrutinizer05at my work actually linux means android21:31
DocScrutinizer05nobody ever says android there21:32
_PanzerSajtyou work on a wrong place :)21:32
DocScrutinizer05sometimes I think you're right ;-)21:32
DocScrutinizer05well, usually I don't touch android either at work (no linux either), but recently that changed, since they "heard I know a bit about linux" (SIC!)21:36
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: you shouldn't let slip that you know a bit about linux21:36
merlin1991you know a bit about *proper* linux ;)21:37
DocScrutinizer05for all that matters in that case, it's actually a correct proposition21:37
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DocScrutinizer05but now I'm feeling constant nausea while makeing friend (or trying to do so) with android build environment at large21:38
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05: Euro cup's been going well for you guys :P21:51
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: soccer?21:52
DocScrutinizer05err MohammadAG^^^21:52
MohammadAGIt's called football21:52
DocScrutinizer05see?21:53
MohammadAGAmericans can call theirs handball21:53
DocScrutinizer05I'm honestly not very much excited. What happened to make to think it's going well?21:53
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DocScrutinizer05s/to think/you think/21:54
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: I'm honestly not very much excited. What happened to make you think it's going well?21:54
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MohammadAGYou won/tied all games21:56
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DocScrutinizer05mhm21:56
MohammadAGThere's a game right now, 0-021:56
DocScrutinizer05ooh there is?21:56
* DocScrutinizer05 zaps a bit21:56
MohammadAGYou and Denmark21:57
DocScrutinizer05indeed21:57
* DocScrutinizer05 zaps back to NCIS21:57
* MohammadAG wants ncis21:58
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robbiethe1st...Wait, what? Is Estel's email seriously "twilight312@gmail.com" or am I misreading something?22:04
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05: You scored :p22:08
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MohammadAGAnd Denmark scored back22:11
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merlin1991robbiethe1st: it is :/22:20
robbiethe1stXD22:20
robbiethe1stI find that incredibly funny, for some reason22:21
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ManoftheSeaHello.  I have an N900.  I try to connect it to a bluetooth GPS (TomTom, SirfstarIII).  It never locks, and eventually gives a connection failed message.22:47
ManoftheSeaGoogle makes me think I'm the only one with this problem.22:47
ManoftheSeaDoes anyone else use an external GPS with their N900?22:48
Venemo_N9I haven't, sorry22:48
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DocScrutinizer05~seen pali23:44
infobotpali <~pali@unaffiliated/pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 9d 20m 2s ago, saying: 'DocScrutinizer, what do you think about it?'.23:44
DocScrutinizer05dang23:44
DocScrutinizer05anybody else got a script to do proper backup of $maemo to a local PC?23:45
DocScrutinizer05where $maemo=the repos and other relevant stuff23:47
DocScrutinizer05maybe even plus wiki23:47
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, yet another game won by you :P23:47
DocScrutinizer05not by me :-)23:48
DocScrutinizer05honestly I'd prefer to do some serious stuff, rather than watch football23:48
MohammadAGdoesn't hurt to have it in the background :P23:50
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DocScrutinizer05NCIS been the better background23:50
DocScrutinizer05but I just zapped and switchet to videotext, when some dudes outside shouted "...SCHLAAAAND"23:51
Macermy favorite part of fight club is when he is in his bi-monthly sickle cell circle23:58
Macerand he's the only white guy in the whole room23:58
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