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| alien_ | what would be the best way to add an environment variable visible in all the applications launched from the UI? | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| alien_ | I don't know why my device lacks INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT and my camera reports no available space, although there are quite a few free GBs | 00:07 |
| scoobertron | alien_: are you sure the camera is saving to the right place? I had a similar difficulty until I realised the camera was trying to save to the rootfs instead of home | 00:08 |
| alien_ | scoobertron: I checked for this too | 00:08 |
| alien_ | I only have MMC_MOUNTPOINT defined in my environment | 00:10 |
| MohammadAG | env | grep MyDocs | 00:11 |
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| alien_ | MYDOCSDIR=/home/user/MyDocs | 00:12 |
| alien_ | that's all I get | 00:12 |
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| alien_ | MohammadAG: do you have INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT set? | 00:15 |
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| alien_ | I added it to .profile, let's see | 00:20 |
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| alien_ | MohammadAG: that did the trick | 00:30 |
| alien_ | I just added export INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT=/home/user/MyDocs | 00:31 |
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| * javispedro sighs | 00:53 | |
| javispedro | stupid new laptop computer decided to _suspend_ while burning recovery disks | 00:53 |
| javispedro | I thought this would be a fixed problem in this day and age in windows... | 00:54 |
| javispedro | obviously, trashed disks | 00:54 |
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| macmaN | uh guys what ip are you getting for repository.maemo.org | 01:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | a515.g.akamai.net 80.239.224.26 | 01:17 |
| SpeedEvil | a515.g.akamai.net 80.239.224.35 | 01:17 |
| SpeedEvil | will vary | 01:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net is an alias for a515.g.akamai.net. | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | a515.g.akamai.net has address 92.123.68.9 | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | a515.g.akamai.net has address 92.123.68.59 | 01:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | > host repository.maemo.org 8.8.8.8 | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | a515.g.akamai.net has address 92.122.50.139 | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | a515.g.akamai.net has address 92.122.50.187 | 01:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, wasn't 4.4.4.4 also a google dns? | 01:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: (suspend) I seem to recall a suspend blacklist of binaries | 01:46 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, 8.8.4.4 | 01:46 |
| nox- | is google | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah thanks | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't work either | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | oops | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | a515.g.akamai.net has address 92.122.50.187 | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | a515.g.akamai.net has address 92.122.50.139 | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | 8.8.8.4 obviously doesn't work ;-P | 01:47 |
| nox- | heh | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | so let's hope macmaN found an IP that works for him :-D | 01:49 |
| ShadowJK | 8.8.8.8 is also google public dns. might be easier to remember | 01:51 |
| ShadowJK | ah you already did :P | 01:51 |
| * ShadowJK was too busy looking at a beerbrewing machine to pageup | 01:52 | |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer: why doesn't it work? | 02:02 |
| kerio | it's sensible for a hostname to have multiple A and AAAA records | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | 8.8.4.4 works, 8.8.8.4 not | 02:03 |
| nid0 | I never remember google's second address, but have opendns' thoroughly ingrained in my memory | 02:04 |
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| Waltertox | Hello guys.. I installed power kernel48 and my camera does not work atm. is there anyway to fix this? | 02:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | uninstall and reinstall all the additional camera apps you got | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the drivers need update | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the old augmented camera kernel driver modules don't match the new kernel | 03:35 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders why t F this particular module isn't upgraded with the other PK-modules | 03:36 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, he's gone anyway | 03:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | drive-by asker :-( | 03:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer hates it | 03:37 | |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, fyi I found the culprit: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=526638&postcount=2 | 07:44 |
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| cehteh | in what repo is netcat available .. or better can anyone please give me the binary only (recovering device with full rootfs) | 08:38 |
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| cehteh | got it | 08:42 |
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| * slonopotamus hack-hack-hack | 08:51 | |
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| cehteh | its not a good idea to place the n900 in front of the laptop where its bluetooth antenna is | 08:59 |
| cehteh | mouse becomes very jerky | 08:59 |
| Venemo | nah, I need to leave now... going to class :) | 09:00 |
| Venemo | bb | 09:00 |
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| psycho_oreos | wireless mouse? | 09:02 |
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| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: ping | 09:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: so you are going to fix it and patch the package? | 09:46 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, I've fixed it (rather.. I'm using the lazy way out), as for patching the package? not likely at this point lol my patch isn't worth considering to be frank.. I really need to look deeper into the scripts to understand it all, I skimmed through the script but was quite confused so I'm gonna not bother with it until I have a nice sysimage :) | 09:48 |
| psycho_oreos | also, I know this is really really old stuff but the other day I flipped my device (N900) upside-down whilst the car was still somewhat warm (though getting cooler because of aircon was running) as I was driving back home. The result with LED? no difference, it still dims its brightness level | 09:49 |
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| psycho_oreos | so yeah its the temp sensor elsewhere | 09:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not so old stuff. I also tried a few things, but found no further clear details on what's going on. Except it's related to high temperature but missing the additional bits relevant for it to show up | 09:58 |
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| cehteh | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.0G Sep 8 09:10 mydocs.img | 10:06 |
| cehteh | ... eek image backup over wlan takes some time | 10:06 |
| psycho_oreos | well WLAN tops out at around 1-2MBps, go figure :) | 10:07 |
| cehteh | yeah | 10:08 |
| cehteh | maybe i should add a compress into that pipe | 10:08 |
| cehteh | well too late now | 10:08 |
| cehteh | i just wait | 10:08 |
| psycho_oreos | heh I wouldn't have a clue on where else to search for info as to why LED would automatically diminish its brightness intensity :/ but I've tried flipping the device over which is no dice as well.. oh well | 10:08 |
| psycho_oreos | I've learnt that pretty much when I was doing rsync (really bad idea imo) | 10:09 |
| cehteh | what led dimming problem do you have? | 10:09 |
| cehteh | display or notification? | 10:10 |
| psycho_oreos | if anything it'll be nice to somehow have N900 either connected to the wired LAN via mUSB -> Cat5/6/etc cable + charger lead or maybe just go through USB networking lol | 10:10 |
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| psycho_oreos | notification, it does that when it senses differences in ambient temperatures | 10:10 |
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| psycho_oreos | its not too much of a big deal but it was definitely evident :) | 10:11 |
| psycho_oreos | err big deal (for me that is) | 10:11 |
| cehteh | sure its not just lighting level? | 10:12 |
| psycho_oreos | and speaking previously slightly on patching packages, I was pondering on the thought of recreating a big midi_addon package lol | 10:12 |
| psycho_oreos | no | 10:12 |
| cehteh | well my notification led sometimes behave strangely too | 10:12 |
| psycho_oreos | if you leave your N900 out in the sun for maybe 5 minutes and take it back in, it'll dim the LED level on the notification light | 10:13 |
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| cehteh | that new to me | 10:13 |
| bash` | hi all, aptitude segfault here and never worked. is this a known issue? | 10:13 |
| cehteh | some people told it turns off when the brightness sensor gets excessive light | 10:13 |
| psycho_oreos | its to do with a temperature gauge, DocScrutinizer is far more knowledgable to me in this area. I've noticed that when he was mentioned this awhile ago, before then I was thinking it was just me that was seeing notification LED was dimming due to ambient heat variances | 10:14 |
| psycho_oreos | not the LED screen, the LED notification light :) | 10:14 |
| cehteh | yes | 10:14 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, yes, aptitude GUI | 10:14 |
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| bash` | psycho_oreos: yep, we cannot do anything about? | 10:14 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, however aptitude CLI works fine however | 10:15 |
| cehteh | i was always wondering why mce doesnt modulate the led by ambient light | 10:15 |
| cehteh | prolly they had a half baked attempt in it which now bugs :P | 10:15 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, MohammadAG was the one that made the package, he said something about a missing/broken dep that makes aptitude not work | 10:15 |
| bash` | psycho_oreos: you mean 'aptitude update/install/remove', yes they work here | 10:15 |
| psycho_oreos | cehteh, *shrugs* that's nokia for you ;) but yeah | 10:15 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, yes aptitude why, etc :D | 10:15 |
| bash` | psycho_oreos: ok, then I should read debian dependencies | 10:15 |
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| bash` | psycho_oreos: where I can found an howto about packaging for maemo? | 10:16 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, iirc there might have been a tmo thread about it.. maybe bugs.maemo or wiki.maemo.. *shrugs* I may have seen the issue in detail somewhere | 10:16 |
| bash` | thanks | 10:16 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, err that too lol | 10:16 |
| psycho_oreos | that also reminds me.. I'm about to find that `cheatsheet' on repackaging deb | 10:17 |
| bash` | psycho_oreos: I usually use qtcreator :P | 10:17 |
| bash` | but I guess isn't a clean solution | 10:17 |
| bash` | I download the code, apply patch, build in qt creator, then I get it installed on my n900 | 10:17 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, I'm using that dpkg method (which obviously requires one to have at least dpkg-dev installed) | 10:18 |
| bash` | "22 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded" <3 loves this | 10:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: psycho_oreos: I have the weird idea of LED chip heating up by direct sun radiation falling on the chip thru the light path | 10:18 |
| bash` | psycho_oreos: you build your package on the n900 or on the pc? | 10:18 |
| cehteh | i never seen that problem | 10:19 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, if you're referring to light path being on the upside of N900, it isn't :) its definitely a temperature sensor somewhere inside just taking ambient temps | 10:19 |
| cehteh | or the color led is temperature senstive :P | 10:20 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, PC initially but for repackaging I use N900 | 10:20 |
| bash` | understand | 10:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no other sound story about why ind LED dims with high ambient temp and sunlight, but *not* when running e.g. video playback for hours and heating up the whole device to 60°C by that | 10:20 |
| psycho_oreos | cehteh, the colour LED is the LED we were on about :) notification LED in other words | 10:20 |
| cehteh | yes | 10:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | psycho_oreos: nope, I guess the LED itself is the temp sensor | 10:21 |
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| cehteh | yes sometimes µC do such tricks | 10:21 |
| cehteh | but well there are certainly temperature sensors on the board too | 10:21 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, ahh well that goes back to what you said :) like I said, I've flipped my device upside down when car was warm and device was randomly exposed to sunlight. It didn't help | 10:22 |
| cehteh | every LCD screen needs one for callibration | 10:22 |
| cehteh | but i dont know if thats exposed | 10:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | nonono, the LP5523 just has a very sophisticated compensation based on temperature, and I guess that runs completely out of rail when temp of LP5523 chip is different to the temp of LED itself | 10:22 |
| cehteh | the cpu has a temperature sensor too or? .. and there is some ambient temp sensor | 10:22 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 10:23 |
| cehteh | psycho_oreos: put it in a fridge :P | 10:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | the LP5523 HAS temp sensor | 10:23 |
| psycho_oreos | I don't think the CPU itself has temperature sensor, it was covered on tmo pk thread that bq2x00 also shows temp readings | 10:23 |
| psycho_oreos | cehteh, no thanks :) | 10:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | (cpu also has one, but that's irrelevant and also broken) | 10:24 |
| psycho_oreos | :o | 10:24 |
| cehteh | yes there are likely more than one temp sensor, maybe some are not exposed | 10:24 |
| cehteh | the LED flash prolly has one too | 10:24 |
| cehteh | does the camera module need one for calibration too? dunno | 10:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | LP5523 has a temp compensation coefficient setting, sth about +-NNNN 0/00 per °C | 10:25 |
| robbiethe1st | I thought it would just do current-limiting? | 10:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno if and how that register is initialized | 10:25 |
| cehteh | where is the temp sensor for the battery? | 10:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | check the component placement in schematics | 10:26 |
| cehteh | heh :) | 10:26 |
| cehteh | robbiethe1st: btw did you meanwhile fixed the filesystem handling in backup menu? (mount -t auto ...) | 10:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | fin R1110 | 10:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | find* | 10:26 |
| robbiethe1st | Uh, no. Haven't messed with it since the last update a while back | 10:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | the flash controller has no temp compensation afaik | 10:27 |
| cehteh | i fucked my device up, currently backing up and then to a complete reflash | 10:27 |
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| robbiethe1st | And I've been very hesitent to do *anything* right now, because I lost most of my PC's data, which means I don't have flasher etc handy | 10:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, ugh | 10:28 |
| cehteh | robbiethe1st: i used backup menu to backup, then updated the kernel, then cssu install fucked up, restored from backup menu, but that installed the wrong kernel modules .. *BOOOOM* | 10:28 |
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| cehteh | robbiethe1st: would be nice if backupmenu could validate to restore on the same kernel version | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe, I strongly suggested to add kernel backup yesterday ;-) | 10:29 |
| cehteh | yes i seen that | 10:29 |
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| cehteh | well even if not at least it could bail out when kernel doesnt match or do not clean the partition before restoring | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | so standard would be to backup/restore both same time | 10:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | rootfs & kernel | 10:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: VERY hard to do such kernel tricks like verification | 10:30 |
| cehteh | not really | 10:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, maybe md5sum, but MEH | 10:30 |
| robbiethe1st | ...I suppose I could try doing a uname -r and seeing if that folder exists within the right part of the rootfs directory structure | 10:30 |
| cehteh | yes | 10:30 |
| robbiethe1st | Because that's the real problem | 10:30 |
| cehteh | exactly | 10:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | then what? refuse restore? | 10:31 |
| cehteh | just this uname check and have a option to restore without deleting the filesystem before | 10:31 |
| cehteh | give an option .. or more like "dont wipe kernel modules" | 10:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not averse if BM throws a warning. Anything beyond... :-/ | 10:31 |
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| cehteh | well if restore bricks the device then i call that disfunctional :P | 10:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, not deleting modules sounds like a rather brilliant concept | 10:32 |
| cehteh | but none to blame but myself... | 10:32 |
| robbiethe1st | You can always just load the kernel manually | 10:32 |
| robbiethe1st | through flasher | 10:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 10:32 |
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| robbiethe1st | I might be able to do something like that; have it say "kernel stuff is missing", and then give an option to continue anyway or use the modules from the current FS or abort | 10:32 |
| cehteh | well my device was partially bricked before | 10:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | pretty please do not try to outsmart user | 10:33 |
| cehteh | so i invoked restore | 10:33 |
| bash` | MohammadAG: thank you for your great work! | 10:33 |
| cehteh | which was the final nail on the coffin :P | 10:33 |
| robbiethe1st | Nah; you can always -- now -- load that kernel with the -K option, and it'll boot fine | 10:33 |
| cehteh | robbiethe1st: just an option not to delete the filesystem and restore overwriting existing file then would be enough | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: tagging backups with uname-a was a great idea anyway | 10:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | combine that with "restore all but modules" | 10:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | happy camper | 10:34 |
| cehteh | you can restore modules | 10:34 |
| cehteh | but dont wipe existing ones before restore, let restore overwrite | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | combine that with an option "restore all but modules" | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | to be verbouse | 10:35 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, repacking deb (I can't find that tmo thread, I swear that bookmark is on my desktop PC which has a dead PSU :/): http://thegrebs.com/irc/debian/2011/01/25 <--- search for time 13:05 and user named prahal | 10:35 |
| cehteh | the problem is the wiping | 10:35 |
| ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/MeeGo-rumored-to-go-to-Samsung/ <-- erm | 10:35 |
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| robbiethe1st | Nah; what I'd do is simply copy them out of the ramdisk after I'm done with the restore | 10:35 |
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| robbiethe1st | Seeing as I have em all copied over anyway in recent versions | 10:35 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, s/05/08/ | 10:36 |
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| bash` | psycho_oreos: great! thanks | 10:36 |
| cehteh | robbiethe1st: actually i would unpack the tar over a existing filesystem (without rm before) | 10:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | have to run, but this needs further discussion to find the best scheme | 10:36 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/08/htc_sues_apple_with_google_patents/ <-- hmm | 10:36 |
| robbiethe1st | cehteh, Nah... then you end up with conflicting files and such. Or at least losing all your space | 10:36 |
| psycho_oreos | bash`, nw | 10:36 |
| cehteh | and after that in userland (or maybe from BM) i would have a option to delete files left over (tar -tf and diff that with whats existing) | 10:37 |
| cehteh | only if the filesystem explodes (full) i'd fall back to a shell for the user to clean up manually | 10:37 |
| robbiethe1st | Nah; for advanced stuff like that you should simply use the terminal mode. Then you can restore/list/copy whatever the hell you want | 10:38 |
| cehteh | well you know the program i dont :) prolly i should have read the manual before :P | 10:39 |
| cehteh | anyways like doc saied, not removing modules would be the next best choice | 10:39 |
| robbiethe1st | The current version has a built-in terminal mode(requires power-kernel, though), as well as a remote terminal over SSH or serial-console-over-USB | 10:40 |
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| cehteh | yes but you have to know where the backups are stored and how the system is rigged when you are in BM | 10:40 |
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| psycho_oreos | oh robbiethe1st, I could never get root terminal/console over serial to work, initially they complained login applet not found so I copied over the login applet (which is part of busybox). It then complained about /bin/bash not found so I created a test user with ash environment and its still failing to give me a prompt saying that /bin/ash is not found when there's already a symlink to the busybox bin | 10:41 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/07/bsa_survey_pirate_software/ <-- sure... | 10:41 |
| psycho_oreos | /home/user/MyDocs/systemBackup | 10:41 |
| robbiethe1st | Fuck BSA | 10:41 |
| psycho_oreos | something like that | 10:41 |
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| robbiethe1st | But, erm, I have to say that if people are messing around with mixed backups, they darn well better be understanding the internals of the system | 10:42 |
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| robbiethe1st | Otherwise, they can simply take a backup of the broken system, restore to known-good, and then open the broken tar-files from within Maemo(or a PC) copy over what they want | 10:42 |
| robbiethe1st | (which would generally just be a file or two) | 10:42 |
| psycho_oreos | ruskie, its like BSA themselves never committed any sins before whinging of others doing so :) funny ironically | 10:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Yeah | 10:43 |
| cehteh | robbiethe1st: well then at first some sanity check that a restore will not conflict with the kernel would be nice | 10:43 |
| robbiethe1st | cehteh, That I will do. And the kernel-module-check/restore bit. | 10:44 |
| robbiethe1st | That sounds good to me | 10:44 |
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| cehteh | btw instead of tarm squashfs the backup would be a nice option, compresses better, faster and preserves attributes better than tar | 10:44 |
| cehteh | (not that this is really needed) | 10:44 |
| cehteh | but one could mount the backup directly for selective restore | 10:45 |
| psycho_oreos | or why not use the technique DocScrutinizer discovered, using that mtd_debug tool :) | 10:45 |
| cehteh | and yes that would only work on power kernels | 10:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | nandread/write | 10:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | mtdtools pkg | 10:45 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: does that work on the n900? | 10:46 |
| psycho_oreos | and whats even more is that I think you might be able to mount it on the fly | 10:46 |
| psycho_oreos | cehteh, yes | 10:46 |
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| cehteh | imo the whole rootfs should be a squashfs .. | 10:46 |
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| robbiethe1st | I thought squashfs wasn't writable? | 10:47 |
| psycho_oreos | its ubifs for stability | 10:47 |
| cehteh | (and a unionfs for changed things) | 10:47 |
| cehteh | ah yes i forgot ubi :P | 10:47 |
| cehteh | well there is no stable unionfs in the kernel yet grr | 10:47 |
| cehteh | that would solve a shitload of problems, the rootfs could be readonly, never reflash to get back to a pristine state | 10:48 |
| psycho_oreos | and you can't have more userland CLI tools :p | 10:49 |
| Termana | good morning | 10:49 |
| psycho_oreos | that plus many other flaws | 10:49 |
| * RST38h moos | 10:49 | |
| cehteh | psycho_oreos: why that? | 10:49 |
| robbiethe1st | cehteh, erm... | 10:49 |
| * psycho_oreos imagines busybox-power would never install as well | 10:49 | |
| robbiethe1st | cehteh, The rootfs rairly fails. It's the optfs that always does so | 10:49 |
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| robbiethe1st | cehteh, That's why BackupMenu will almost always boot when things break - because it only uses stuff on the rootfs | 10:50 |
| cehteh | well the whole optfs idea is borked | 10:50 |
| psycho_oreos | its better than sticking with 256MB of usable space :) | 10:50 |
| cehteh | eh? | 10:51 |
| cehteh | thats completely unrelated | 10:51 |
| psycho_oreos | optfs idea was to expand the limitations of NAND's limited space :p sure its not ideal but its better than nothing.. and what would have been ideal is if the whole thing were to not be running on NAND space | 10:52 |
| cehteh | use nand for readonly essential things | 10:52 |
| cehteh | do bind mounts or unionfs mounts | 10:52 |
| cehteh | but not this crappy optification | 10:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~optification | 10:53 |
| infobot | i heard optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3 | 10:53 |
| cehteh | i used to setup normal systems with 16MB rootfs which have not this limitations as the nokia setup has | 10:53 |
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| edheldil | cehteh: that would make problems with updating the rootfs, though | 10:53 |
| psycho_oreos | I wouldn't do that personally.. 256MB NAND is especially useful as a fast swap space :p as compared to swapping on eMMC as is with having more space on NAND than on eMMC | 10:53 |
| cehteh | edheldil: no it wont | 10:53 |
| cehteh | you cant swap to nand and if that wears out then your device is really a brick | 10:54 |
| psycho_oreos | correction, the speed comparisons on NAND and eMMC is really neglegible | 10:54 |
| cehteh | more ram and compcache ftw :P | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no need for bindmounts, a normal mount of an usr partition is all it needs | 10:55 |
| psycho_oreos | its bound to wear out.. even eMMC doesn't last a lifetime :p | 10:55 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes even that, but with bind mounts it could be done little more elegantly | 10:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 10:56 |
| cehteh | normal fstab setup, maybe initrd boot, then the initrd could be on nand, and users can fuck up their userland without bricking the device | 10:56 |
| cehteh | this charge mode (if it would be necessary, i even doubt that) could be a initrd state | 10:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 ponders to put orphaned initrd partition to use | 10:57 | |
| cehteh | maybe even kexec into a user installable kernel from the readonly boot kernel in nand | 10:57 |
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| cehteh | i really wonder what the nokia guys who did that have smoked, looks to me that they never worked on linux/unix before and then decided to reinvent their own wheels | 10:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | funny enough we had lots of it on diablo | 10:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~botsnack | 11:09 |
| infobot | :), DocScrutinizer51 | 11:09 |
| edheldil | that j* tether thing in meego is reinvention of linux iptables rewriting, is not it? | 11:10 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: make me a linux phone with no horrendously stupid decisions pls | 11:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | dunno meego, harmattan seems to have quite standard iptables | 11:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: will take like 5 iterations, as initially you dunno what's stupid | 11:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | maemo had just enough iterations when they abandoned it | 11:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | :-P | 11:12 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: ok, start iterating, i'll pay you when you're done | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | haha | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | some things however, like '256MB will never be enough' ae easy to tell aforehand | 11:14 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: let's add a touchscreen to the back of the openpandora! | 11:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sure, why not | 11:15 |
| kerio | or... huh, make the screen turnable | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | just Openpandora, duh! | 11:15 |
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| kerio | then we add a modem | 11:15 |
| kerio | designing phones is easy | 11:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I planned exactly that, with raster | 11:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pandora dudes weren't even interested in any dialog | 11:16 |
| kerio | :( | 11:16 |
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| kerio | also the openpandora still has the 256mb problem ._. | 11:18 |
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| flux | who needs any on-board memory, just put everything into the cloud?-o | 11:25 |
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| kerio | flux: oh you :) | 11:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure, netboot, lean client, cool. just gimme a wireless network technology that offers connectivity everywhere, with minimal battery requirements ;-P | 11:41 |
| RST38h | NFC? =) | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems to me that's about what iPhone initial design been all about X-P | 11:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: and what will I do when the device is more than 5cm away from the "AP" implanted in my palm? | 11:42 |
| ruskie | hehe | 11:45 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: biggier antenna :) | 11:50 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders heading out getting tea and shocking some Nokia store drones with a N950 | 11:51 | |
| cehteh | lol | 11:53 |
| cehteh | in what way? | 11:53 |
| cehteh | "please can you update the OS for me"? | 11:53 |
| cehteh | or "I need a 2nd one for my GF" | 11:54 |
| cehteh | or "Found this in a bar, do you know what it is?" | 11:54 |
| cehteh | .. "Nokia send it to me, it sux, could you take it back?" :) | 11:56 |
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| edheldil | I would be careful with that last one | 11:58 |
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| RST38h | OMFG THEY JUST BROKE IGOOGLE! | 12:07 |
| * RST38h clicked on "reload" and got the "new tablet-improved" UI. | 12:07 | |
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| psycho_oreos | lol this'll be interesting, still in the middle of upgrading CSSU and got a phone call from me mate. He prank called me and when I tried returning his call twice I couldn't connect to him lol | 12:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nobody toldya to remove SIM prior to major firmware upgrades? :-S | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ever heard about "cherry" ? | 12:38 |
| psycho_oreos | well you see normally its meant to set the device into offline mode if one were sane (and used HAM), but I wasn't sane and I used fapman lol | 12:38 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah I know all those | 12:38 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm sure I won't be seeing `cherry states' unless I do a complete reflash :D | 12:39 |
| psycho_oreos | and I won't be looking forward to that either | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, installing CSSU via fapman is completely nuts | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I'll just ask for accessories for that particular model ;-P | 12:41 |
| ruskie | rofl | 12:42 |
| ruskie | make sure to have a hidden camera or something | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 12:42 |
| psycho_oreos | I also seriously do not understand how much space and where exactly does it need that space in HAM for CSSU update. I have (at time of writing) 30 or so MB of rootfs space + 77MB or so space for optfs. Mind you this is with a heavily optified setup and lots of butchered rootfs userland CLI tools installed (when one was not supposed to install the said tools on N900's rootfs) | 12:43 |
| psycho_oreos | and voice recording on N900 ;) | 12:43 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh it used up optfs.. now to reboot and see the glory.. | 12:44 |
| ruskie | or the gore ;) | 12:44 |
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| psycho_oreos | I'll be prepared with a sigh for a gore :) I've just gone through there not long ago (yesterday) | 12:44 |
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| ruskie | ahh | 12:45 |
| ruskie | I haven't needed a fresh flash in ages now(*knock on wood*) | 12:45 |
| psycho_oreos | and again thanks tremendously to robbiethe1st for his BM, or I'd be pulling me hair out for the Nth(!!) time | 12:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | 30M root + 77M opt, omg | 12:47 |
| psycho_oreos | yesterday I tried to backup my setup before upgrading the CSSU, turns out I had fubared optfs+eMMC (both ext3). I fsck both three times and cleared the errors (until basically fsck ran cleanly) and I had a fubared setup :) | 12:47 |
| psycho_oreos | small isn't it? ;) | 12:48 |
| psycho_oreos | 30M root + 77M opt :) | 12:48 |
| robbiethe1st | Dw, I'll be tearing my hair out for you! | 12:48 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, as soon as I start trying to port the damn thing to the N950 | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | forgetit | 12:49 |
| psycho_oreos | lol no need :) and plus you'll have more fun.. as you just spilled the beans lol | 12:49 |
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| robbiethe1st | It's not exactly private... I talked about it on the topic | 12:49 |
| robbiethe1st | about two weeks ago | 12:49 |
| psycho_oreos | I know I know... I just get that bit of chill when N950 is mentioned :p | 12:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | aegis will make you laugh XP | 12:50 |
| psycho_oreos | don't worry, N9 will have it.. and without a hw keyboard to boot | 12:50 |
| MohammadAG | Aegis, the only reason I doubt Harmattan will have a CSSU | 12:50 |
| robbiethe1st | Unless we can disable it, yeah | 12:50 |
| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/08/apple-sues-samsung-over-galaxy-smartphone-in-japan/ <-- erm | 12:51 |
| robbiethe1st | It's why I shake my head every time someone says the N950 is better than the N900 | 12:51 |
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| robbiethe1st | (or N9, for that matter) | 12:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh ure you can disable aegis, but then things like mediaplayer etc won't work anymore. Probably no dialer as well | 12:51 |
| robbiethe1st | Effing hell | 12:52 |
| psycho_oreos | N950/N9 is better in some ways than N900 in terms of hardware.. but all three said devices are crippled in their own ways lol.. N900 has hardly much of a future, N950/N9 is plagued with aegis | 12:52 |
| psycho_oreos | win | 12:52 |
| robbiethe1st | To be honest, after hacking my N900 into submission, I still don't see a faster device around | 12:53 |
| chem|st | robbiethe1st: appart from some hickups I second that | 12:53 |
| psycho_oreos | what, the 1GHz + 512MB RAM didn't make that much of a difference? :) | 12:54 |
| robbiethe1st | And well... I know the N950 developers have their work cut out - things like a simple LED torch seem like they'll require some major hacking. | 12:54 |
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| psycho_oreos | if it didn't make much difference it sounds like harmattan is bloated lol | 12:54 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, erm... thing is, on the N900, if you tweak it right you don't run into the limits | 12:54 |
| robbiethe1st | And I'm running mine at 500,950mhz, so the CPU speed isn't an issue either | 12:55 |
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| chem|st | psycho_oreos: get trackerd apt-worker and hildon-* under control and your device is responsive, working smooth and does not crash more often than any other device I know | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | the thing is, N950 is smooth, but tell me, how wuld I evaluate true speed when nothing works on this aegis coffin? | 12:55 |
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| robbiethe1st | Setting the lower speed to 500 improved battery life slightly, and really improved responsiveness. And DocScrutinizer is right | 12:55 |
| psycho_oreos | chem|st, I've never really have my N900 crashing apart from the ugly hacks to optification that I've recently incorporated lol | 12:56 |
| chem|st | thought aegis is just one nail in the coffin^^ | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | time for ((i=1000000; i>0; i--)); do :; done | 12:56 |
| chem|st | psycho_oreos: that is what I am talking about... ever since 1.3 | 12:56 |
| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer, lol I wonder if you can run coremark CPU benchmarks. I ran my N900 on it and submitted the score at one stage | 12:56 |
| chem|st | 1.2 froze on me quiet often | 12:57 |
| robbiethe1st | And, I have to say.. I don't see the advantage of the new, shiny, Swipe UI. Assuming it works perfectly, it's still worse than the good old Hildon UI, because you can't close programs from within the program. | 12:57 |
| psycho_oreos | chem|st, I've only had laggy responses even with 1.2.. and 1.2 had battery management woes (i.e. chews battery like there's no tomorrow) | 12:57 |
| psycho_oreos | robbiethe1st, lol ouch | 12:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: 100% ACK | 12:58 |
| robbiethe1st | And that's *not* a bug, if you look at the official documentation | 12:58 |
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| psycho_oreos | but you still got to admit that having a hardware keyboard there is really handy.. if touchscreen keyboard UI is laggy/screwed you still have hardware keyboard.. come N9 and you won't have a choice | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | also the weird idea of browser bookmarks cluttering the already awkward app grid - eeeew | 12:59 |
| robbiethe1st | Oh gees. I haven't tried that, but... | 12:59 |
| robbiethe1st | Mainly because I can't see how to change the default browser's font size. | 12:59 |
| MohammadAG | <robbiethe1st> And, I have to say.. I don't see the advantage of the new, shiny, Swipe UI. Assuming it works perfectly, it's still worse than the good old Hildon UI, because you can't close programs from within the program. | 13:00 |
| MohammadAG | next versions will be swipe down to close | 13:00 |
| MohammadAG | i.e by N9 release | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | no, for sure afaik | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't make the concept better | 13:01 |
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| MohammadAG | the concept is excellent | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | and awesome, I don | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I WANT MY DESKTOP SCREEN | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | 't need a lock code so my friends don't unlock my phone | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | 8 of them | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | they just can't figure how | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | pfft | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | 8 is so last year | 13:02 |
| MohammadAG | rotate the 8 90 degrees and that'd be awesome | 13:02 |
| MohammadAG | the concept of widgets can be done on Harmattan | 13:02 |
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| MohammadAG | the task switcher design helps | 13:02 |
| MohammadAG | when you swipe out, an app can switch to a bigger view | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I frequently drop that aegis coffin like a hot potato uttering "MEH!" when it comes to task switching | 13:03 |
| MohammadAG | sure it's not a desktop, but it's nice | 13:03 |
| MohammadAG | oh and the events view has a whether icon next to the date in release SW :p | 13:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly, WAY TO MUCH iPhome/andridiot-me-too | 13:05 |
| MohammadAG | true | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | they'll always be the second best when trying to compete by copying BS | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | swipe doesn't change that | 13:06 |
| chem|st | the features of maemo being desktop like is what makes it still attractive | 13:06 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea | 13:07 |
| robbiethe1st | Also, erm... where's the ' button? | 13:07 |
| robbiethe1st | on the N950 | 13:07 |
| cityLights | MohammadAG: got a paypal I can send you $$ | 13:08 |
| chem|st | even my "not so" tech savvy father asked me if he could handle it as he likes the functionalities | 13:08 |
| MohammadAG | cityLights, I can't take $$ for the CSSU if that's the reason ;) | 13:08 |
| cityLights | I see | 13:09 |
| MohammadAG | why? cause it's a big colalb by nicolai, acrean, freemangordon, thp, qwerty12, etc | 13:09 |
| MohammadAG | collab* | 13:09 |
| MohammadAG | and taking money isn't right for that | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | the advantage of fremantle was the customizable desktop screens with shortcuts, the almost desktop alike concept, things like submenues on applauncher screen (albeit an option), the relatively "normal" browser, with its own bookmarks etc. They nuke all this for looking like all the other crap-phones | 13:09 |
| cityLights | I wanted to help cssu somehow | 13:09 |
| MohammadAG | it's like your boss taking money and not giving you any for your work | 13:09 |
| MohammadAG | theoretically, I don't consider my "position" in the CSSU higher than anyone's, a lot of the contribs have done more than I have | 13:10 |
| robbiethe1st | Hm, so... testing: "time sh -c 'for i in $(seq 1 1000000); do:; done'" | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: won't probably fly, as seq 1 1000000 will bust shell's cmdline buffer, on expansion | 13:12 |
| robbiethe1st | N900/N950 | real: 13.22/13.69 | user: 12.72/12.35 | sys: 0.19/0.87 | 13:12 |
| robbiethe1st | Nah, it worked. | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 13:13 |
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| robbiethe1st | I tried the other for-style loop, but it didn't work on the N950, so.. | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, it's bash syntax | 13:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and actually a "x=`seq 1 1000000`; echo $x" works - I'm amazed | 13:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | 1000000 | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# time echo $x >/dev/null | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | real 0m17.087s | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | user 0m17.055s | 13:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | sys 0m0.016s | 13:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | t900:~# time echo $x >/dev/null | 13:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | -sh: time: Argument list too long | 13:20 |
| robbiethe1st | put quotes around it | 13:21 |
| cehteh | btw i removed my µSD card today and found out its a class2 only .. but sandisk, performs almost as good as the emmc | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | t900:~# bash | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | t900:~# x=`seq 1 1000000` | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | t900:~# time echo $x >/dev/null | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | real 0m35.496s | 13:22 |
| cehteh | just for the note about how unimportant class ratings are | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | suggests N950 ~2 times as fast as N900, sounds about right | 13:23 |
| cehteh | well .. with 4 times as much ram, in real it will feel much faster right? | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you do the dance on on-device xterm, like "time echo $x" then you also could check gfx accel | 13:25 |
| psycho_oreos | class ratings are up to individual manufacturers to rate their cards, not controlled by some central entity.. i.e. you can get a class 10 which will be no faster than class 2 of two unrelated brands | 13:25 |
| cehteh | well and class ratings are completely unrelated to the usage pattern you have on a smartphone | 13:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | testbed for SD card class ratings is a digicam storing photos continuously | 13:27 |
| psycho_oreos | unfortunately it should if you are critcal about it, but alas there's still no central entity that manages and makes sure nobody gets ripped off | 13:27 |
| chem|st | delay between "ring-in" and actual action by ui | 13:27 |
| chem|st | loading time of websites | 13:27 |
| chem|st | battery time on wifi with all accounts logged in | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | err wut? | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ECHAN? | 13:28 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 13:29 |
| chem|st | Jaffa: moo | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi Jaffa | 13:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: would you've thought a "echo `seq 1 1000000`" works? | 13:30 |
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| robbiethe1st | Ok, I did "time sh -c 'for i in $(seq 1 1000000); do echo $i>/dev/null; done'" - N900: 50.55s vs 42.19s | 13:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 13:31 |
| psycho_oreos | cehteh, also they say for meego dualboots on N900 it is recommended that you have class 6 or higher rated microSD. Maybe you can put that class 2 to the test and see if the lags annoy you ;) | 13:32 |
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| cehteh | would be meegos fault then :P | 13:33 |
| psycho_oreos | on second thoughts though, there's only two classes above and including class 6, that is class 6 and class 10, lol | 13:33 |
| cehteh | is meego meanwhile useable? phone, gps, camera? | 13:33 |
| cehteh | on the n900 | 13:33 |
| psycho_oreos | not really, its a good way to also benchmark your microSD as well | 13:33 |
| cehteh | no thanks then | 13:33 |
| robbiethe1st | GPS works on the N900? | 13:33 |
| robbiethe1st | <_< | 13:33 |
| psycho_oreos | apparently phone functionality is usable on meego-N900 | 13:34 |
| nusse_ | how do i remove the microsd thingy ontop of the usb-connector? any special hints? | 13:34 |
| cehteh | robbiethe1st: huh GPS works fine | 13:34 |
| psycho_oreos | GPS works but rather slow (even worse without assistance) | 13:34 |
| robbiethe1st | Maby it's just that I've rarely been far enough out fron a vehicle, or had data to use it... | 13:34 |
| psycho_oreos | nusse_, huh? you mean the port? | 13:34 |
| cehteh | i use gps a lot, works very well | 13:34 |
| robbiethe1st | I got it to work... once. When I was within range of our wifi point. Then it tracked me walk around our pasture fairly accurately | 13:35 |
| cehteh | not with ovi maps :P | 13:35 |
| psycho_oreos | you don't have to have a car just to use GPS :) its handy for various other things | 13:35 |
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| robbiethe1st | running the same code, writing to the screen: N900: 4m 14.74s/48.37s So either they did some sort of fix to make it handle massive lines of code better, or somethings accelerated | 13:36 |
| nusse_ | psycho_oreos: the pcb ontop of the micro usb port | 13:36 |
| robbiethe1st | It's held in with glue | 13:36 |
| robbiethe1st | Just be very careful with a plastic wedge tool | 13:36 |
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| psycho_oreos | nusse_, ahh I wouldn't have a clue.. | 13:36 |
| nusse_ | robbiethe1st: does the sponge stay on the main pcb or on the sdcard-pcb? | 13:37 |
| robbiethe1st | I'd keep it on the SD card PCB | 13:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# time -p for ((i=1000000; i>0; i--)); do :; done | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | real 61.49 | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | user 60.08 | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | t900:~# time -p for ((i=1000000; i>0; i--)); do :; done | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | real 117.41 | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | user 113.34 | 13:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | still 2:1 | 13:39 |
| robbiethe1st | I don't have bash installed | 13:40 |
| robbiethe1st | But for me it's closer to 1:1, because of the 950mhz vs 1ghz CPU and all... | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | UHUH | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~bash robbiethe1st for overclocking | 13:41 |
| * infobot beats robbiethe1st for overclocking with ksh | 13:41 | |
| robbiethe1st | :D | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | t900:~# time seq 1 100000; #on device: | 13:43 |
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| nusse_ | fucking small | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | real 0m22:40s; user: 0m 1.53s; sys: 0m 1.37s | 13:44 |
| nusse_ | how should i ever solder in this 1mm space | 13:44 |
| robbiethe1st | nusse_, with great care | 13:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rest is gfx for scrolling | 13:44 |
| nusse_ | robbiethe1st: no, really? :) | 13:44 |
| robbiethe1st | Speaking of which, I need to install my own new USB port | 13:44 |
| nusse_ | one side of the connector is still attached | 13:44 |
| robbiethe1st | I just got 5 replacements, so... | 13:44 |
| nusse_ | charging didnt work reliable, so its advisable to resolder all pins? | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | on N50 :-D : | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | real: 0m 3.49; user: 0m 0.73; sys: 0m 057s | 13:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, actually last two lines are 99999 and 100000 | 13:47 |
| nusse_ | should i remove the shield next to the usb port? will it give me more space | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | WHAT?????? | 13:47 |
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| robbiethe1st | Theoretically, yes, but you'd have to be very careful with it... and it protects the electronics undernieth, so I wouldn't risk it | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah usb fix | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, practically not, as you can not "remove" that shield | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a soldered can with a removable lid | 13:49 |
| robbiethe1st | Not like the other ones? | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | removing the lid doen't help anything | 13:49 |
| robbiethe1st | well, yeah... but the lid would give you .02MM or w/e | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~usbfix | 13:50 |
| infobot | Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off, or >>NEVER use epoxy glue!<< | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | HTH | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | you won't get better advice | 13:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (unless you ask me specific questions, that is) | 13:51 |
| nusse_ | mh, still wondering wether i need to resolder all pins | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | odd are they're broken at receptacle body though - so inspect *carefully* | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | odds* | 13:52 |
| nusse_ | what kind of soldering iron should be use? are there small tips to solder every pin by its own? | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | resoldering a loose perfectly soldered pin won't help | 13:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, there are such soldering stations with matching tips | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | starting ~100 bucks and up | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | you may get away with a simple 30 bucks 30W soldering iron with a dirt cheap copper tip (if you can find any nowadays) that you'll need to file to shape to meet your needs | 13:55 |
| robbiethe1st | There's some nice units on ebay; I bought myself a $100 solder rework station(with temp-controlled 60w iron and hot air) + a whole bunch of tips | 13:55 |
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| jaska | id probably mis-solder and get angry and throw the iron out of the window :) | 13:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly if you need to ask those questions, I strongly recommend you find an experienced repair dude that knows which end of the iron is the hot one, rather than ruining the device with practicing soldering on it | 13:57 |
| * ruskie has a nice 60W Weller soldering iron with magnetically temp controlled exchangable tips... works a treat for most everything | 13:58 | |
| nusse_ | btw the shield thingy seems to be clipped not soldered | 13:59 |
| nusse_ | how should i find out wether the pins of the connector are broken? | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | nusse_: please don't even think about doing it yourself. Your comment shows you're lacking the mandatory experience | 13:59 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: On what system? | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | on any system. I always thought cmdline expansion buffer had a certain limited size << several M | 14:00 |
| nusse_ | DocScrutinizer: doesnt answer my question ;) | 14:00 |
| * RST38h politely points out that 60W might be a bit of overkill for microelectronics | 14:00 | |
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| robbiethe1st | RST38h, yes, but if it's temp-controlled, that doesn't matter | 14:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | nusse_: I'm not one of the guys that answer questions of users to make them ruin their devices. I give advice to my best knowledge to give the user what he needs rather than what he asks for | 14:01 |
| robbiethe1st | It just means that it heats up quickly, and will maintain the temp under the most adverse of conditions | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | weller magnastat has the disadvantage of not easily adjust the temperature | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | also tips are exorbitantly expensive | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | nusse_: and I did when I suggested you should find someone with sufficient experience on such delicate soldering | 14:04 |
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| chem|st | nusse_: find a shop for it! just an advice... (asking if there are tips small enough shows no knowledge about soldering) | 14:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nusse_: just to show you I know what I'm talking about: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/ I actually removed the lids of the shield cans | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I did some rework in my life: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/big-C_rework_SOP_rc2.pdf | 14:12 |
| chem|st | nusse_: and not knowing that there are stores with that many DMMs that they even sell them... (sry cannot hold it) | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~docscrutinizer | 14:13 |
| infobot | well, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko | 14:13 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: you don't have to... | 14:13 |
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| nusse_ | its already disassembled in front of me | 14:16 |
| nusse_ | bought it used, someone before me seems to disassembled it and used the wrong screws to put it back together | 14:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 14:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, when it's already disassembled, you should find a repair shop that knows what to do and also know their soldering business, and you just show them the photos of the links infobot referred you to above. When they don't need to disassemble the device, you should get away with 10 or 20 bucks, depending on where you live | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~usbfix | 14:40 |
| infobot | Fixate receptacle like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=547991#post547991 - get the pic.zip form there http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=870017&postcount=27 for details how to deal with contact pads came off, or >>NEVER use epoxy glue!<< | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | again, for your convenience | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | print out the photos, grab the prints and the N900 bare PCBA (mainboard) and go "shopping" | 14:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/big-C_rework_SOP_rc2.pdf might help as well | 14:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oh, and cover your camera lens with a patch of sticky tape prior to leaving home with the PCBA | 14:45 |
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| ErwinJunge | DocScrutinizer: That N900 exploded gallery is a lot less spectacular than the title would imply ;) | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah, only from your POV | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I might create a a gallery-N950-flattened that might more meet your taste, eventually | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-D | 14:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm afraid if I'd apply some few gram of real explosives to N950, there's probably not much left to take snapshots of | 15:00 |
| ErwinJunge | :) | 15:00 |
| ErwinJunge | You're that upset with the device? | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't like it | 15:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for N900 I had to get a devel device as I couldn't stand it to mess with my daily phone. For N950... well let me put it this way: it's all the contrary | 15:02 |
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| ErwinJunge | Also, what's the relation of the big-C rework pdf to the N900? | 15:02 |
| ErwinJunge | I'm going to let a friend fix the usb connector soon, would like to give him as much relevant information as possible. He's an electronics professional. | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing at all, except I am the author of the paper and I'd hope this qualifies me to give some educated advice about N900 rework | 15:03 |
| ErwinJunge | Alright. I only have a minimal level of electronics knowledge, so not sure if it was relevant :) | 15:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if he's an electronics pro, I think he'll know how to tackle that, when you show him those three pictures (monster solder blobs, wiring rework if pads came off, and bare PCB) - he'll probably opt for hot air reflow if he got the equipment for that | 15:07 |
| archl | N900 as Phone mainly secondary as computer... so I want Gtalk Back! | 15:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | with the right equipment hot air is simple as eating cheesecake | 15:09 |
| chem|st | archl: ehrm N900 as phone "mainly" implies GSM not some third party bs | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | hihi | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | (hot air) actually unless pads came off and you need to do real wiring | 15:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooops C&P error above | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/[2011-09-08 13:42:51] <DocScrutinizer> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/big-C_rework_SOP_rc2.pdf might help as well / http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Gallery-N900-exploded/platine_02.jpeg / | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | nusse_: ^^^ | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ErwinJunge: ^^^ as well | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | now I realize why you asked how that SOP is related | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry | 15:13 |
| ErwinJunge | :) | 15:14 |
| ErwinJunge | Mine didn't come off yet, it's preventive. | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | GOOD :-) | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | so no hot air needed, the moster blobs can be done with regular iron just fine | 15:15 |
| ErwinJunge | While he's in there anyways, any other things that could use a bit of extra attention? | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr | 15:15 |
| ErwinJunge | I only know about the usb thing since that's a very high profile problem | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing else comes to mind | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe clean and bend out a bit the contacts/springs/pads of AV-connector | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cleaning best is done with unvarnished carton, like a business card or similar | 15:17 |
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| ErwinJunge | Ok, I'll pass it along. Thanks! | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't use solvents, they usually tend to make things worse rather than better | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | for cleaning contacts | 15:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wipe with dry rough paper is really best for gold plated | 15:19 |
| ErwinJunge | All copied and pasted in a document that I'm going to print out and give to him, thanks | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | and take special care with that friggin ribbon cable connector between screen and main half. It's way more delicate than it looks | 15:20 |
| ruskie | hehe | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | the connector (aka plug) is a triple layer with vias, breaks on slightest bending | 15:21 |
| ErwinJunge | More copypasting ensues :) | 15:22 |
| ruskie | http://www.reghardware.com/2011/09/08/designer_creates_flexible_foldable_samsung_smartiphone/ <-- I mean I can see the benefits of bendy screens... but I still don't see the point of designing something like that then... | 15:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | terrible | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 15:27 |
| * SpeedEvil stabs designers in the face. | 15:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer | looks like a worn out cigar case | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | look there: not ideal but way better use of really flexible screens -> http://www.freesmartphone.org// | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle, for example, you could imagine a 8" long 1" thick rod, which when you pull it out, makes a 10" display, with the electronics at one edge | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe, me been a tad faster than SpeedEvil ;-D | 15:29 |
| SpeedEvil | I posted that years ago. That was just a reiteration. :) | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think you already could build such a design, with eInk and static screen content that needs rollup and pull out cycle to change | 15:32 |
| jaska | roll scroll to turn page | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, like an erasable fax paper printout | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | write to it while rollout, with a 1-dimensional write head | 15:33 |
| jaska | just sounds "retro" | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | check some checkmark boxes using a special stylus, scan content incl checkmarks on rollup | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | of course scan handwriting as well | 15:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tag some pages for "[x] print this page", then replace the eInk by a roll of thermopaper and actually create printouts with the same device (just using a thermo-printhead built in parallel to the e-Ink electrostatical print head) | 15:39 |
| e0x | morning all | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | jaska: yes it's kinda retro, but I think it has a special geeky charm, somewhat resembling handling of old parchment rolls :-) | 15:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and it's rather simple to build, and extremely easy and cheap to replace the "screen" | 15:42 |
| jaska | hehe | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course you don't want to watch youtube videos on such a device ;-) | 15:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | more kinda like the pocket kindle | 15:45 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: gameboy had printer to go with it | 15:56 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and it was printing using small moving printing head | 15:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cool but can't do what's needed for the electronic parchment roll | 15:57 |
| jacekowski | well, it can | 15:58 |
| jacekowski | it's printing on rolls of thermal paper | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's fine for printouts, but not suited for e-Ink pull-it-out usage | 15:58 |
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| RST38h | Doc: You can probably use any thermoprinter with the paper that changes back after a while | 16:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [Notice] -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, as previously promised today will be the day where the network goes up in flames... I mean, where we carry out some upgrades to the ircd. I'm about to kill off a number of servers and the affected user count is ~8K! Hopefully this won't take long but I suggest you brace for impact.. | 16:08 |
| * pronto flings bagels at DocScrutinizer | 16:08 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | hah, I'm back ;-D | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | infobot: ping | 16:15 |
| infobot | ~pong | 16:15 |
| RST38h | In addition to firing CEO Carol Bartz, Yahoo's board has now put the company up for sale. | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no wonder, afaik Nokia changed from own mail hosting to yahoo not too long ago, so what else would you expect for yahoo's future? ;-P | 16:19 |
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| * DocScrutinizer checks chanlog for the actual impact | 16:20 | |
| derf | RST38h: Shouldn't they have done that when they were being offered real money for it? | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | DocScrutinizer51: \o/ | 16:21 |
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| javispedro | btw, about my my.TI problems... | 16:50 |
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| javispedro | some lady called to my phone and apologized =) | 16:50 |
| javispedro | so all is good again :) | 16:50 |
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| MohammadAG | yahoo's for sale? how much? | 16:51 |
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| ErwinJunge | MohammadAG: share value * number of shares * (something extra to convince people to agree) | 16:53 |
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| ErwinJunge | According to Yahoo Finance: $17.18B | 16:54 |
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| ErwinJunge | So I'd say somewhere between $18B and $21B | 16:55 |
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| ErwinJunge | Which is still a lot less than the 45 that MS offered a couple of years ago | 16:55 |
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| ebzzry_ | How can I invoke osso-addressbook from the command line? (The 'Contacts' app no longer works, out of nowhere) | 17:21 |
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| NIN101 | http://www.golem.de/1109/86319.html heh, the CSSU in mainstream news. | 17:28 |
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| Shapeshifter | well, uh, "mcenfiadvsetupofflinesync"? really? | 17:34 |
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| smhar | now that I have my N900 updated. how to enable more than 4 desktops? | 18:02 |
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| ErwinJunge | Shapeshifter: "mcenfiadvsetupofflinesync" ?? What does that do? | 18:27 |
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| Shapeshifter | ErwinJunge: that's what the option says in modest to enable imap offline storage | 18:28 |
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| Shapeshifter | CSSU people didn't seem to name it something less cryptic. | 18:28 |
| ErwinJunge | Wow. That's awful. | 18:28 |
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| ErwinJunge | What does the mcenfi pard of it even mean? | 18:29 |
| Shapeshifter | mhh | 18:29 |
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| smhar | I have followed the instruction in the wiki and enabled the repo and updated N900, but somehow, I feel that something is still missing | 18:33 |
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| smhar | About tells me that CSSU version 20.2010.36-2maemo15 is installed but I can not set it to have more than 4 desktops | 18:36 |
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| slonopotamus | MohammadAG: ping | 18:39 |
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| smhar | this is th page I followed | 18:41 |
| smhar | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 18:41 |
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| slonopotamus | meeeh | 18:47 |
| slonopotamus | stupid maemo scripts | 18:48 |
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| slonopotamus | camera-ui no longer wants to save photos to MyDocs. you know why? because i've created /scratchbox dir. | 18:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err wut? | 18:54 |
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| slonopotamus | yep | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ls -l please | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ls -ld even | 18:55 |
| slonopotamus | /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh doesn't export INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT if it sees /scratchbox dir | 18:55 |
| frals | im guessing it has a workaround to detect if its running inside scratchbox or not | 18:55 |
| Juozapas | hi | 18:55 |
| frals | and no sane person would create /scratchbox unless you are running scratchbox, i guess | 18:55 |
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| slonopotamus | and camera-ui relies on INTERNAL_MMC_MOUNTPOINT env var to find out where MyDocs is | 18:55 |
| frals | (and why youl would have that on the device... well :p) | 18:56 |
| slonopotamus | frals: why the hell it cares about my dirs? | 18:56 |
| Juozapas | is it possible to buy new good quality n900 case? | 18:56 |
| frals | slonopotamus: it cares about if its running in scratchbox likely | 18:56 |
| slonopotamus | frals: creating /scratchbox dir is the easiest way to build stuff on device without messing with sed | 18:57 |
| slonopotamus | (because lots of stuff have /scratchbox/tools/bin path hardcoded) | 18:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: friggin funny | 18:57 |
| slonopotamus | could someone please clone https://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/osso-af-startup to community-ssu so that i file pull request there? | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | (i don't know how to detect scratchbox but relying on /scratchbox dir is total crap) | 18:58 |
| frals | doesnt seem to be a problem for most users since this is the first ive ever heard of it being a problem and its what, 2years after release? | 18:59 |
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| ErwinJunge | slonopotamus: I never understood why people would want to build on device. Isn't that really really slow? | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: there's probably no beter way | 18:59 |
| slonopotamus | ErwinJunge: because desktops do not fit in pocket | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you can edit /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh just easy enough, uh? | 19:00 |
| ErwinJunge | slonopotamus: That's why you want to use the device, but do you do development on the train a lot? | 19:00 |
| slonopotamus | sure i can. i just don't want to mess with it again if/when it gets updated in cssu | 19:01 |
| slonopotamus | ErwinJunge: that's basically the only place where i develop | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | who would update that file in CSSU? | 19:03 |
| ErwinJunge | Wouldn't a laptop be a lot easier to work with in that case? I'm all for the "doing things your way" approach that's inherent to OSS, but using only the device just seems cruel to yourself :) | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | and if somebody did, do you think we'd care to keep this scratchbox nonsense intac?t | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | sed -i -e "s/scratch/smash/g" /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | done | 19:04 |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: are you convincing me not to send a patch fixing that weird behavior? | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | this isn't weird behaviour | 19:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and it could get fixed only for strictly-on-device-only file | 19:05 |
| slonopotamus | haha. you know why they have that check? because "Do not create /tmp/.opi.tmp when running inside scratchbox" | 19:06 |
| slonopotamus | and they create that file when trying to source osso-product-info output | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | the one-liner above is all you need to fix it for your local system, and if CSSU would deploy a "fix" for that file, we would kill all those files that already got a custom mod, like yours might get with >>sed -i -e "s/scratch/smash/g" /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh << | 19:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's a really niche issue, and easy to fix by devels as nifty as doing development on device. Risk of a fix is magnitudes higher than benefit | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | fix for you, break for 238 other users. No way | 19:09 |
| slonopotamus | grepping for "scratchbox" in /etc shows that half of scripts check /scratchbox presence and other half checks /targets/links/scratchbox.config | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, how about renaming that friggin /scratchbox dir in a launch script for your development environment? | 19:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | all the scripts that offend you are checking for the /scratchbox folder during boot only | 19:12 |
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| slonopotamus | so, instead of fixing crap, let's pile some more on top | 19:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no, if I'd go fixing crap I'd teach you why this file looks the way it does | 19:13 |
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| slonopotamus | because someone wrote them that way. | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and no, we're not going to break CSSU for those that want to use it in scratchbox to develop and check on PC | 19:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, because someone wrote it that way, and that's also the reason why we won't change it for CSSU | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | First impressions about the Samsung Galaxy SII | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | wonderful smooth device | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | tons of apps | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | I'm already bored | 19:15 |
| slonopotamus | i somewhere suggested breaking cssu in scratchbox somewhere? | 19:15 |
| * slonopotamus scrolls back through chatlog | 19:15 | |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: same reasoning can be applied to any cssu change. | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-09-08 17:58:43] <slonopotamus> (i don't know how to detect scratchbox | 19:16 |
| slonopotamus | and who is "we" btw? | 19:16 |
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| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: yet | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | and "we" is the more reasonable prudent half of CSSU dudes | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus: really, I gave you a ready made one-liner that fixes your problem in 3 seconds. Then I suggested a rather sane more global solution (renaming dir on SDK startup and shutdown) which you preferred to smash back into my face. No I'd say STFU | 19:19 |
| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: meh. you don't care about on-device development but i do. and i have a bug an a will to fix it and send a patch. but you're rejecting it even before i wrote it. and you call that community? | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | there IS NO BUG | 19:20 |
| slonopotamus | sure there is. on-device development breaks camera-ui | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | on-device development the way you do it *is* the bug | 19:21 |
| slonopotamus | oh. you have better approach? | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, but you rejected it as crap | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | I also could've suggested using chroot | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which probably was the way cleaner approach | 19:22 |
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| slonopotamus | setting up chroot just because camera-ui breaks otherwise is strange | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell you could even add a initscript that does "mv /scratchbox-hidden /scratchbox" on start, and "mv /scratchbox /scratchbox-hidden" on stop | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | not strange but clean. | 19:26 |
| slonopotamus | what's "dirty" in compiling in /home with /usr/bin/gcc? | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | the scratchbox folder is only existing on a development environment which per definition is PC and not device | 19:26 |
| slonopotamus | and /usr/bin/make | 19:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, maybe you want to add a patch to package gcc-n900 that cares to move /scratchbox into the development envs visibility on boot and away on shutdown. As you'd need to install a maemo-fied gcc package anyway - bare fremantle doesn't have these and thus is NO DEVELOPMENT ENV. So please don't complain about a supposed bug in fremantle (or CSSU) when the bug actually is in some of the things you did to convert fremantle into a development | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | environment. --- using chroot would solve all this in a natural way | 19:31 |
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| slonopotamus | gcc-n900? | 19:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no, foobar-I'm-BORED-now | 19:32 |
| slonopotamus | why you care how i setup my phone if that doesn't break others' systems? for example, by replacing that check with [ -f /targets/links/scratchbox.config ] as many init scripts already do. | 19:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | why and when did you decide to change to the trolling side? | 19:36 |
| * RST38h yawns | 19:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't give a flying F about what you do on your system, I just told you suggesting to fix this "bug" in CSSU is insane | 19:36 |
| slonopotamus | i'm just frustrated you're against my patch even before i wrote it. | 19:37 |
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| Iridos | I see how it would be so much more frustrating if you spent hours/days writing one and then he'd be against it. | 19:44 |
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| slonopotamus | Iridos: so, best strategy is to sit silently and use what Gods of CSSU gave you? | 19:47 |
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| slonopotamus | amazingly doc didn't say "development on device is unsupported, use SDK and carry desktop with you wherever you want to code" | 19:49 |
| RST38h | slonopotamus <-- is having a ball tonight | 19:51 |
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| RST38h | slonopotamus: what is the proposed patch? | 19:53 |
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| slonopotamus_ | RST38h: if there is really no way to detect scratchbox except checking some file existence, unify checks so they all look for /targets/links/scratchbox.config | 19:54 |
| slonopotamus_ | though it is obvious that scratchbox can exist without that file and that one can have that file without scratchbox. | 19:55 |
| RST38h | sounds sane, but only if everyone supports it | 19:55 |
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| slonopotamus_ | that's just as bad as requiring that user is named "user" | 19:59 |
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| Iridos | ha | 20:03 |
| Iridos | indeed... wonder who ever thought of that | 20:03 |
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| Iridos | if I was bold, I would change the user and see what breaks | 20:03 |
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| slonopotamus_ | Iridos: try grepping for "home/user" in /etc | 20:10 |
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| Iridos | all gui stuff | 20:22 |
| Iridos | or all osso stuff | 20:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if it was that simple the please explain those two lines: " if [ -d /scratchbox ]; then" and "if [ ! -e /targets/links/scratchbox.config ]; then" BOTH show up in the file /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh you identified as source of your problems. I don't think they mix different methods in one file just for fun, way more likely is you haven't wrapped your head around it and so are going to suggest and push a patch that will most likely | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | break things for a lot of users, while not really trageting the root cause at all | 20:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rejecting this patch before I even looked at it been based on an abstract risk vs benefit estimation which made me think it's not worth it | 20:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I thought >>[2011-09-08 18:09:54] <DocScrutinizer> fix for you, break for 238 other users. No way<< made that clear enough | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry I didn't want to sound discouraging or mean or offensive. Sometimes I'm just too terse in explaining my thoughts I guess | 20:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, given the fact we want to use a system as uniform as possible in scratchbox and on target device, there'll always be one flag (or two) that are used to signal "this is scratchbox, please act accordingly" and the scripts - as long as they are identical in scratchbox maemo system and on-device maemo system - will always have to check for that flag. It's no bug when this flag is missing per default on your N900 as it's meant to be that | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | way, and it's also no bug when the scripts that need to take care actually will act differently when they detect that flag on a N900 and probably that different behaviour will cause things to break on N900 as that's why the different behaviour got implemented first instance. | 20:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and since CSSU first commandment is to keep as much compatibility with stock fremantle and only target things that really fix bugs that cause trouble and can't get fixed any other way (or bring much requested additional functionality that needs replacement of core components that will fail if replaced on a stock fremantle system), I can't see any patch regarding this syndrome going into CSSU and possibly causing lots of unwanted side | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | effects and causing lots of testing effort for those who maintain CSSU | 20:46 |
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| angelox|nokia | Hi DocScrutinizer :) | 20:55 |
| slonopotamus_ | i got your point. we need one more fork. cssu is "stable, frozen, only critical bugfixes" (btw, why the hell you touched camera at all? if i'm not mistaken, bug i hit is a regression compared to stock maemo camera ui). other one would be "evolution of maemo after nokia" | 20:56 |
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| slonopotamus_ | with stuff like getting rid of "user" user, scratchboxisms, updating libs to modern times, etc | 20:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | slonopotamus_: yes, I agree | 20:59 |
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| RST38h | slonopotamus; what you are talking about is called cordia | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then it's debatable if that's not a duplication of mer and meego-arm after all | 21:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: yup | 21:00 |
| slonopotamus_ | mer's dead | 21:00 |
| slonopotamus_ | meego isn't hildon, is it? | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, it resurrected recently I heard | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | no I'm talking about meegoCE aka meego-arm here | 21:01 |
| RST38h | check out cordia | 21:01 |
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| RST38h | slonopotamus: you want this guy: *** smoku (~spectrum@xkh0g2.infr.xiaoka.com) has joined channel #meego | 21:10 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: Edible Insects Produce Smaller Quantities of Greenhouse Gasses Than Cattle | 21:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~+uptime | 21:26 |
| infobot | - Uptime for apt - | 21:26 |
| infobot | Now: 3h 12m 20s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux | 21:26 |
| infobot | 1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010 | 21:26 |
| infobot | 2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009 | 21:26 |
| infobot | 3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug 4 17:38:59 2009 | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~chaninfo | 21:26 |
| infobot | I'm on 20 channels: #debian/1103, ##guleague/14, #debian-bots/6, #gsoc/2, #maemo/2, ##icf/2, #meego/2, #tomcat/2, #utos/1, #bzflag/1, #webos-internals/1, #bzflag-chat/1, #asterisk-dev/0, #sc2mapster/0, #asterisk-bugs/0, #sporewiki/0, #infobot/0, #wowuidev/0, #diablofans/0 | 21:26 |
| infobot | i've cached 1137 users, 1124 unique users, distributed over 20 channels. | 21:26 |
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| nusse_ | soldering worked somehow, nothing i wanna do again | 21:28 |
| derf | #maemo/2? | 21:28 |
| derf | This channel has gotten smaller than I thought. | 21:28 |
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| nusse_ | screws worn out, maybe time to look for a new phone | 21:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | derf: some freenode "netsplit" might still have effects | 21:39 |
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| Iridos | RST38h, but you need to eat more insects than cattle! | 21:44 |
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| Iridos | well, actually per kg | 21:50 |
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| angelox|laptop | In a charging process,it's common battery decreases his voltage? | 23:09 |
| angelox|laptop | s/common/normal/ | 23:10 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 23:12 |
| SpeedEvil | It usually increases, with the exception of NiCd and NiMH, where it either comes to a halt, or reverses for a bit, at full charge. | 23:12 |
| angelox|laptop | hmm | 23:12 |
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| angelox|laptop | that's the 3 time i send my phone to the techinical shop and they doesn't fix the problem :( | 23:13 |
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| angelox|laptop | after ~3 minutes,my battery goes from 3.865v to 3.900v,and now 3.888v,perharps it is charging ? | 23:14 |
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| RST38h | voltage will depend on the load, a little bit | 23:14 |
| angelox|laptop | and the problem is in my phone,since they did change my battery 3 times | 23:14 |
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| ShadowJK | it will vary | 23:15 |
| RST38h | and the load will depend on what your cpu is doing | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | what are you using to measure voltage? | 23:15 |
| angelox|laptop | lshal -m | 23:15 |
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| ShadowJK | lshal is rarely updated | 23:15 |
| angelox|laptop | or,5 minutes by 5 minutes lshal | grep battery | 23:15 |
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| angelox|laptop | hmm,what should i use instead? | 23:16 |
| angelox|laptop | some app? | 23:16 |
| ShadowJK | All the apps use hal as source | 23:16 |
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| angelox|laptop | then a multimeter | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | But if you're not afraid of x-terminal, you could use my script which accesses the hardware directly | 23:17 |
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| angelox|laptop | It would be very nice | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | Do you have rootsh installed? | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: you don't know the GTA02-battery script? | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: N900 is using same chip as GTA02 battery | 23:19 |
| angelox|laptop | ShadowJK,no,they did flash my phone :( ; I can install it fastly | 23:19 |
| angelox|laptop | DocScrutinizer: No,i'm newbie at gta02 :) | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, I see | 23:19 |
| ShadowJK | http://enivax.net/jk/bq.tar - Download this. Become root (the 'root' command), cd /root ; tar -xf bq.tar (substitute bq.tar with the full path to bq.tar where you downloaded it) | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | then './bq27200.sh 5' | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | When/if you get this far I'll explain what the stuff means | 23:21 |
| angelox|laptop | Thanks,i'm going to try | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | but first please connect charger, then issue the command >> cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger << and tell what it prints | 23:21 |
| angelox|laptop | but after 10~ minutes charging,the percentage (also from lshal) decreased | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | lshal is telling BS | 23:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sometimes | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually bme is doing this, and hal plays the parrot | 23:22 |
| angelox|laptop | hmm | 23:22 |
| angelox|laptop | cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger returns 1 | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | good | 23:22 |
| angelox|laptop | good ? :) | 23:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so your fastcharger got detected | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | means your USB port has at very least no broken data pins | 23:23 |
| * Sicelo listens carefully to know what output of bq2720 means | 23:23 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | and your charger is working as expected, regarding signalling | 23:24 |
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| angelox|laptop | so Nokia's charger also uses D+ D- pins? | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, it shorts them | 23:25 |
| * angelox|laptop reboots his n900 because it doesn't want to connect wifi to download rootsh | 23:25 | |
| angelox|laptop | hmm,and other chargers wouldn't do that.. | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm | 23:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no other chargers frequently don't do that | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, * | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | so N900 frequently refuses to charge properly on second source chargers | 23:26 |
| angelox|laptop | sorry,really sorry. I got to go :( when i got back i'll try bq2720 | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia is *very* specs conform wrt that | 23:27 |
| angelox|laptop | really sorry for stopping this conversation :( | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | np | 23:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just ping SpeedEvil or ShadowJK or me when back | 23:27 |
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| angelox|laptop | ok. And Thank you! | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 23:28 |
| angelox|laptop | See you again people! | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ | 23:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: you probably want to read the bq27x00 datasheet | 23:29 |
| ShadowJK | It's kinda big | 23:30 |
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| ShadowJK | I think all we want to know is whether "rate" is positive or not ;) | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | in short: CSOC~=RSOC=capacity in percent, TimeToFull, TimeToEmpty, NAC=capacity in mAh | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | =CACD=CACT | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | =NAC | 23:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SI=current when "in suspend" (low current calculated separately) | 23:32 |
| Sicelo | i have it :P | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | STTE suspend time to empty | 23:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MLI max load current MTTE same as above | 23:33 |
| Sicelo | what is the exact meaning of this line: Cycle count since Last full reset? | 23:35 |
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| Sicelo | and how is such a reset performed/reached? | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | the number of completed charge+discharge cycles since battery got inserted | 23:36 |
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| ShadowJK | it resets if it has been without power for a few minutes | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | it sums up fractional discharge+charge cycles | 23:37 |
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| Sicelo | ah, ok. that one has baffled me for a long time :) | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | two discharges to 50% and then recharge to 100% are one complete cycle | 23:38 |
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| ShadowJK | So if you never removed battery for more than a few seconds, and only ever used one battery, and never had the n900 "out of battery" for more than a few days, this is the age of your battery | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: bq will keep ram unless battery cuts out on lowvolt protection | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | my spareN900 did that | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if bq resets due to "out of battery" then I'd consider that cell dead | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | (cutout) | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | after a few months | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | and meego in a day ;P | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | a LiIon hardly survives a few days at Vlow_cutout | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | well bq will reset on cutout for some minutes, cell might survive that | 23:41 |
| Sicelo | mine says 37 .. not sure if i ever took out battery for extended period of time, guess i must have. i've had it since July 4 | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | without too much damage | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds about right then | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | 37 cycles in 90 days | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite ok if you keep it on charger a lot | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or, rather, if your phone doesn't eat one complete charge in less than 24h, which should be the case on light use | 23:43 |
| Sicelo | i used to, actually, (side effect of USB Networking) not anymore though | 23:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then 37 sounds correct for a device/battery in service since july 4 | 23:44 |
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| Sicelo | i have thought about a second battery though, from expansys .. just it sounds so cheap :/ | 23:47 |
| Atarii | scuds are pretty good | 23:48 |
| Atarii | also just found my 770 \o/ | 23:49 |
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| Sicelo | scuds, won't that cost an arm and a leg to be delivered here in africa? :p | 23:50 |
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| Atarii | Sicelo :p http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568&highlight=scud | 23:52 |
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| Sicelo | thanks :) | 23:55 |
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