IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-01-28

merlin1991	eichi on mappero you can select the backend for tiles and routing	00:00
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eichi	yeah, use osm maps allready. but i dont know the other routing engines. is there some, using osm data?	00:01
eichi	i like the openrouteservice.org routing on webpage	00:01
eichi	should have a api	00:01
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merlin1991	http://www.christeck.de/wp/products/routino-frontend/ for routes using osm data	00:04
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tycho	I just flashed my n900 to a different firmware but ovi store keeps giving me a message everytime I boot it up	00:04
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eichi	merlin1991: looks good, thanks	00:05
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tycho	Does anyone know what can be the problem ? It also says "cannot find terms" when i open the the terms window	00:08
tycho	I completely flashed the whole device so I dont really know what to do	00:08
eichi	tycho: which "different firmware"?	00:08
lardman	hmm, autofocus seems to have broken in mbarcode	00:09
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tycho	RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM	00:10
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ThreeM	?	00:10
tycho	sudo ./flasher 3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM -f -R is the command i wrote in xterm	00:11
tycho	on my comp	00:11
ThreeM	you only flashed firmware not rootfs	00:12
ThreeM	flash rootfs (without parameter -r) then firmware	00:12
tycho	Sending and flashing rootfs image (185728 kB)...	00:12
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ThreeM	i hope you dont have used the -R	00:13
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tycho	sorry	00:14
tycho	sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R <<< This is what I wrote	00:14
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tycho	It still shows that damn ovi "Thank you for choosing nokia" blabla everytime I boot it up	00:14
tycho	And all my apps are gone so it seems to have flashed correctly?	00:15
ThreeM	on the N900 there are 2 files to flash	00:15
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ThreeM	the emmc (something with vanilla in namen) and the firmware both	00:16
ThreeM	both have to flashed to reset the device completly	00:16
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ThreeM	search on maemo.org to get instructions how to do it	00:17
tycho	Ive read it	00:17
tycho	20 times	00:17
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tycho	So I flash that one first, and the emmc one later	00:17
ThreeM	ahh ok	00:17
ThreeM	so then i have no idea why the device behavior like this	00:18
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tycho	sudo flasher-3.5 -F "vanilla emc firmware" -f -R <<< Is that correct?	00:19
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ThreeM	looks like yes. but please remove -R parameter. flash emc, then straigt firmware with -R so the device reboots	00:20
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tycho	Alright, I did like you said now	00:22
tycho	without -R on the emmc	00:22
tycho	and then I should do the same with the PR one?	00:22
ThreeM	yes	00:23
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tycho	should the PR one contain -f -R ThreeM ?	00:23
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ThreeM	yes	00:23
tycho	IT accidently booted up after i did the first firmware but I took out the battery before it left the white nokia screen	00:25
tycho	Lets see what happens now	00:25
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tycho	ThreeM: Thank you so much!!!!	00:30
tycho	It worked	00:30
tycho	I love you	00:30
tycho	Not really	00:30
tycho	But thanks alot	00:30
tycho	I really mean it	00:30
ThreeM	my first maemo help	00:31
ThreeM	no problem i like to help	00:31
tycho	I have tried to get this shit to work the whole day had to reinstall my whole computer into xubuntu to get it to work	00:31
lardman	My new N900 keeps saying funny things like "Insufficient power, not charging" is that normal?	00:31
alterego	lardman: I get that all the time.	00:31
tycho	maybe it has something to do with thevoltage	00:32
tycho	?	00:32
alterego	Via USB from a computer right?	00:32
lardman	alterego: and it umounts my mass-storage stuff	00:32
lardman	yeah	00:32
lardman	I never used to get that with the old one	00:32
alterego	lardman: what are you doing with it?	00:32
alterego	Copy files?	00:32
alterego	~copying ?	00:32
lardman	trying to	00:32
tycho	I get that message when I go into pc suite mode	00:32
alterego	Interesting.	00:32
tycho	Sometimes	00:32
ThreeM	i get this when im running my notebook from battery	00:32
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alterego	I get that message when I'm running some CPU intensive app whilst it's charging and tethered.	00:33
* MohammadAG waves		00:33
lardman	[12221.471797] usb 2-2: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 8	00:33
lardman	[12226.612665] usb 2-2: can't set config #1, error -110	00:33
alterego	Yeah, Don't worry about it.	00:33
alterego	Actually, that should stop it unmounting.	00:33
alterego	Maybe dodgy cable.	00:33
MohammadAG	holidays, the only time I get distracted from IRC :p	00:33
tycho	you spend the weekdays on irc?	00:33
alterego	HE spends every day on IRC	00:34
ThreeM	its 23:34 and im hanging on irc	00:34
MohammadAG	alterego, stfu, you're here till 5AM	00:35
MohammadAG	:P	00:35
lardman	hmm, looks like it's hung	00:35
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alterego	lardman: heavy IO may do that too ..	00:38
alterego	Did you fully charge the device before hand?	00:38
lardman	no, 1/2 battery	00:38
lardman	I guess something might have get stuck on 100% cpu, though I didn't checkl	00:38
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* lardman realises it was him who broke the autofocus		00:49
lardman	3 weeks ago, just before his device broken	00:49
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lardman	s/n/	00:49
lardman	oops	00:49
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alterego	Hrm?	00:50
alterego	You broke your own autofocus?	00:50
alterego	How did you manage that>	00:51
lardman	well I broke the code that controls autofocus	00:51
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Juozapas	:))	00:52
alterego	Heh	00:52
alterego	fcam?	00:52
MohammadAG	gstreamer i think	00:53
lardman	nah, just a single line change in mbarcode that I apparently didn't get a chance to check too well	00:53
lardman	but yeah I use gst	00:53
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alterego	Heh	00:53
alterego	Oh, you broke autofocus in your own app.	00:53
alterego	I thought you meant you broke it completely.	00:53
lardman	oh no, sorry	00:54
ThreeM	is that normal that BlessN900 makes strange noises when it focus?	00:54
lardman	clicking?	00:54
alterego	ThreeM: yes, that's normal.	00:54
ThreeM	yes	00:55
alterego	It does it for all camera apps for me.	00:55
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ThreeM	nothing to worry about it?	00:55
ThreeM	ahh ok	00:55
ThreeM	cause the stock camera app dont do that so i was a little bit worry	00:55
lardman	what's the operator for a logical xor in C++?	00:56
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MohammadAG	only in macro mode	00:57
MohammadAG	when you're focusing on something close	00:57
MohammadAG	will it click back	00:57
alterego	lardman: ^	00:57
alterego	a ^ b is XOR	00:57
lardman	alterego: that's bitwise afaiu?	00:57
alterego	Yes	00:57
alterego	Oh, logical	00:57
ThreeM	ahh ok	00:57
lardman	:)	00:57
alterego	There isn't one.	00:58
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alterego	Isn't that just an OR?	00:59
alterego	What are you trying to do?	00:59
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MohammadAG	Hmm	00:59
MohammadAG	I have a spec of dust in my screen	00:59
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ieatlint	wow, the q4 nokia figures are out... for the entirety of 2010, nokia sold 100m symbian phones worldwide compared with 36 million iphones	01:02
ieatlint	and retains 31% of the worldwide smartphone market	01:02
ieatlint	whereas here in the US, where everyone buys their phones from their phone carrier, my carrier has a single symbian phone for sale	01:03
ieatlint	and it's low-end	01:03
ThreeM	same here in german	01:03
ThreeM	nokia has problems with smartphone market and anybody thinks that symbian is crap (not my opinion)	01:04
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ieatlint	symbian is pretty crappy	01:05
alterego	Meh	01:05
alterego	Depends who you are.	01:05
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alterego	I think Symbian^3 is really quite good for the 5 minutes I played with it :D	01:05
ThreeM	why is symbian crappy? it just works	01:05
ieatlint	it's easier to use than other smartphone platforms	01:05
ThreeM	the gui is not so intuitiv	01:05
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MohammadAG	actually, I find older people get used to iPhone's faster	01:06
MohammadAG	iPhones*	01:06
MohammadAG	ffs can't type	01:06
alterego	That's because they're designed for idiots :)	01:06
trumee	where can i get the original osso-wlan?	01:06
ThreeM	but on the other hand, the clock and alarm works pretty well ;)	01:06
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alterego	Or at least people with low expectations and needs.	01:06
ieatlint	symbian^3 has a crappy on screen keyboard, and its lack of package maintainance is a joke	01:06
trumee	anybody knows where is the original maemo repo?	01:06
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ieatlint	it's home screen widget stuff is crippled as compared to android (or maemo)	01:07
ThreeM	symbian can handle the most scenarios well	01:07
ieatlint	and its method of handling data connections is confusing, with settings all over the place instead of centralised	01:07
ThreeM	and it has more functions on board compared to android or ios	01:07
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ieatlint	functions on board? how's that?	01:08
ThreeM	syncml for example	01:08
trumee	ah, found it	01:08
ieatlint	symbian^3 doesn't support kinetic scrolling widgets as part of its current qt toolkit	01:08
ieatlint	which is beyond failure in my opinion	01:08
alterego	Shame	01:08
MohammadAG	<alterego> That's because they're designed for idiots :)	01:09
MohammadAG	I pretty much said that to a lot of people	01:09
alterego	Actually yeah, I remmeber thinking that. At least it has touch scrolling unlike the previous versions ;)	01:09
ieatlint	they just say use QML, you know, when it actually gets released for symbian at some indefinite future time	01:09
MohammadAG	in their face etc	01:09
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alterego	MohammadAG: I do all the time ;)	01:09
MohammadAG	S^3 was a huge step for S60	01:09
MohammadAG	I mean, ^1 was crappy as hell	01:09
ieatlint	i went from a nokia n80 s60 3rd edition, to android, to maemo, and now have two s^3 devices	01:10
ieatlint	and i feel crippled in them	01:10
ieatlint	granted, the lack of hardware keyboard is part of my issue... which isn't s^3's fault	01:10
ThreeM	i like symbian and i think its still one of the best mobile os	01:10
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ieatlint	i have some hopes for meego, although i still question if nokia will be able to convert its userbase to it	01:11
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ThreeM	but coding for it can be pain in the ass	01:11
wmarone	converting a user base takes time and developer support	01:11
alterego	convert, meh, transition.	01:11
alterego	Users will go where the candy is	01:11
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ieatlint	alterego: yeah, but the candy might be android or iphone now	01:12
MohammadAG	I hate the generation of idiots the iPhone is building	01:12
ieatlint	most people who buy a symbian phone are replacing a symbian phone	01:12
alterego	ieatlint: Maybe, we'll see.	01:12
wmarone	I'm more wondering if Elop isn't going to eviscerate it all	01:12
MohammadAG	I mean seriously, a friend of mine thinks it can really measure heartbeat with the camera	01:12
ThreeM	MohammadAG, word	01:12
wmarone	MohammadAG: to be fair to the iPhone, most buyers are new to the smartphoen concempt	01:12
ieatlint	if they have to change OSes, they may change to a non-nokia platform that they've heard so much about and is well established	01:12
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wmarone	blahhhh stupid lag	01:12
MohammadAG	and the video demoing that was using a fucking index finger	01:12
MohammadAG	which has NO pulse	01:13
ThreeM	the most of the iphone users doesnt realy need a smartphone	01:13
MohammadAG	yeah	01:13
wmarone	what annoys me is Android	01:13
ThreeM	the need a handheld with no features	01:13
wmarone	as google managed to kneecap the role of actual open source OSes in the mobile space	01:13
ThreeM	android is no option because of the "security" system and the anoying ads overall	01:13
MohammadAG	android's better than iOS though	01:13
wmarone	sure, it's better	01:14
alterego	Do you think Nokia/MeeGo will ever get adverts?	01:14
wmarone	and I'll sooner buy Android than WP7/iOS	01:14
alterego	I hope not, and maybe that'll be a compelling enough reason?	01:14
alterego	Because Apple is going that way and that is all that Google is about ..	01:14
alterego	I will stay with Nokia until the end.	01:14
wmarone	alterego: MeeGo doesn't supply a store, I don't imagine it will supply Ads	01:14
ThreeM	meego can be a great hit for me, if its open like maemo	01:14
alterego	I don't like what Android is and I don't like who's developing it. Same goes for iOS	01:15
jacekowski	wmarone: windows phone looks interesting	01:15
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MohammadAG	it's windows	01:15
wmarone	jacekowski: thus far it's just Microsoft's version of iOS	01:15
MohammadAG	expect half of it to not work without windows	01:15
jacekowski	MohammadAG: you can measure heartbeat with camera	01:15
ieatlint	it'd have been interesting if webos got the support it needed	01:15
jacekowski	MohammadAG: +light	01:15
MohammadAG	the iPhone has no light	01:15
jacekowski	MohammadAG: that's pretty much how these clip on hospital things work	01:16
MohammadAG	at least pre-4	01:16
jacekowski	MohammadAG: these produce two colours of red light	01:16
jacekowski	and measure each one of them	01:16
MohammadAG	Yes	01:16
MohammadAG	but the iphone can't do that	01:16
jacekowski	and that gives oxygen level and fluctuation give pulse	01:16
jacekowski	well	01:16
jacekowski	just to measure pulse	01:16
jacekowski	external light should be enough	01:16
ieatlint	i've seen the app on an nexus s that measures heartbeat... it seems janky to get working, but then appears reliable	01:17
jacekowski	with sensitive camera	01:17
MohammadAG	and doesn't the index finger lack pulse?	01:17
jacekowski	nope	01:17
ThreeM	ok my batteries are empty. good night everyone	01:17
jacekowski	MohammadAG: touch it yourself	01:17
MohammadAG	wasn't it only the thumb that had pulse	01:17
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lardman	not with your thumb though	01:17
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jacekowski	MohammadAG: all of them have pulse	01:17
lardman	nah, thumb just has more of a pulse	01:18
jacekowski	MohammadAG: these hospital things ussualy go onto index finger	01:18
MohammadAG	yeah i remember that now	01:18
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jacekowski	i'm just saying that idea is possible	01:18
MohammadAG	but I remember reading somewhere about thumb having pulse	01:19
MohammadAG	guess lardman's right	01:19
jacekowski	but i doubt iphone has camera sensitive enough	01:19
lardman	yeah you're not supposed to try to take someone's pulse using your thumb	01:19
MohammadAG	3G fyi, not the 3GS	01:19
alterego	Almost finished copying MeeGo (for the fifth time in about an hour)	01:19
ieatlint	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_oximeter	01:19
MohammadAG	alterego, install on the eMMC	01:19
jacekowski	ieatlint: but that has dedicated lights inside	01:19
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ieatlint	jacekowski: yes, but it's what that thing on your finger is at a hospital, so i figured relevant	01:20
ieatlint	including to how it works in general	01:20
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jacekowski	i know how it works	01:21
jacekowski	i built one	01:21
jacekowski	just for lulz	01:21
jacekowski	never got to calibrate it	01:21
ieatlint	cool, i'd love to see info on that if you documented it	01:21
alterego	MohammadAG: I'm testing problems in the latest image and comparing with an older one.	01:21
jacekowski	ieatlint: it's very simple device	01:22
jacekowski	ieatlint: it's calibration of it that's a problem	01:22
jacekowski	ieatlint: and setting up your leds	01:22
alterego	MohammadAG: but for some reason the transfer speed of my sd card reader has plummeted to 1.0MB/s :(	01:22
ieatlint	how often does it need calibration though?	01:22
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MohammadAG	alterego, which brings us back to... eMMC :p	01:22
ieatlint	i'd be curious, because having something in a form factor that could be used while exercising and store data would be really awesome	01:23
alterego	I don't think so.	01:23
jacekowski	ieatlint: it's one of as far as i know	01:23
ieatlint	and all the commercial ones i've seen are huge finger blocks	01:23
MohammadAG	seriously	01:23
jacekowski	ieatlint: but i have nothing to compare it to	01:23
MohammadAG	just partition it with gparted	01:23
alterego	You've got a point though, I can install two version on the same MMC and configure the bootloader to select which one to load.	01:23
jacekowski	ieatlint: i just have value from A/D converter that changes with my pulse	01:23
alterego	Anyway, almost done now.	01:23
ieatlint	yeah	01:23
ieatlint	easy to fix then, just need a heart rate monitor for reference	01:24
alterego	Hah	01:24
jacekowski	yes	01:24
jacekowski	but i'm not going to buy one	01:24
alterego	http://i.imgur.com/Id0IT.png	01:24
jacekowski	i could go to hospital	01:25
jacekowski	and ask around	01:25
ieatlint	i have access to a chest strap polar one	01:25
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jacekowski	but that's just hearbeat	01:25
jacekowski	not oxygen level	01:25
jacekowski	isn't it?	01:25
ieatlint	oh, yes, i'm not thinking here	01:25
ieatlint	yeah, would need to buy one, or visit a hospital/clinic	01:25
jacekowski	i just can't imagine me walking into hospital	01:27
jacekowski	with my bag	01:27
jacekowski	saying "hi, can i use your pulse oximieter for couple hours"	01:28
merlin1991	that's be awesome :D	01:28
ieatlint	yeah, i'm sure they won't object :P	01:29
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orospakr	Hey, does anyone else find the 3.5mm TRRS connector on the n900 to be kind of sloppy? I routinely get very annoying crackling in a verified known-good pair of headphones if I so much as wiggle or touch the phone or the plug.	01:36
alterego	No, can't say I do.	01:38
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lardman	night all	01:50
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trumee	mobile hotspot doesn't like lxps driver.	01:55
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trumee	N900 rebooted when i ran mobile hotspot.	01:56
nox-	whats lxps?	01:57
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trumee	nox-, injection wifi drivers	01:58
nox-	ah	01:58
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* trumee going to reboot		01:58
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jonwil	Just spoke to Nokia Care regarding my broken status LED and they gave me a reference number and told me to come visit which I shall be doing soon	02:58
jonwil	well I told them I was going to visit	02:59
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pupnik	hows the hacking goin jonwil ?	03:04
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jonwil	so far so good, I posted to the developer mailing list with my results for the ICD policy plugins	03:04
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pupnik	RST38h: a true genius... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_Shukhov_Tower_Nizhny_Novgorod_1896.jpg	03:47
pupnik	Shukhov	03:47
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jonwil	anyone know what "PPU data	04:00
jonwil	is?	04:00
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DocScrutinizer	jonwil: isn't that some packet unit that holds netto SMS data?	04:45
jonwil	I know its related to the CAL and to the WiFi chip	04:45
jonwil	as in its stored in the CAL and used by the WiFi chip	04:45
DocScrutinizer	hmm	04:46
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CableTwitch	Yo	05:31
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gunBoat	share me activation mic. office please?	05:36
CableTwitch	Mosey the aubergine quickly, Harold.	05:37
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Sazpaimon	so those windows phone 7 certified microsd cards are supposed to have very reliable random write speeds, correct?	06:05
Sazpaimon	Would they work well as swap space in an N900 as opposed to the internan eMMC storage?	06:05
BCMM	what does windows do with them that needs certification? swap or cache as opposed to filesystem?	06:06
Sazpaimon	i forget what the whole issue was but i believe it had to do with windows phone 7 pretty much destroying many microsd cards because their random read/write speeds were very sub-par	06:07
Sazpaimon	http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/17/windows-phone-7s-microsd-mess-the-full-story-and-how-nokia-ca/	06:08
Sazpaimon	should be near the bottom	06:09
Sazpaimon	but i assume so-called "windows phone certified" cards will have superior random access speeds to those on the market today, making it idea for virtual memory	06:10
BCMM	heh, i love it when microsoft occasionally does something cool by accident	06:11
BCMM	reminds me of the Vista-ready webcams thing	06:11
BCMM	they were required to support UVC to get the little sticker	06:11
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BCMM	meaning that the little "windows vista ready" sticker was a guarantee that your new webcam would work with linux	06:12
Sazpaimon	but am I right in assuming when these cards hit the market they would be ideal for our swap space?	06:12
BCMM	i don't know how the uSD slot compares to the stuff swap is on by default...	06:12
BCMM	even with an ideal card	06:12
Sazpaimon	the internal storage is still eMMC i believe	06:13
Sazpaimon	probably not optimized for random access	06:13
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BCMM	talking of which, does anybody know why the io scheduler is set to cfq?	06:16
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DocScrutinizer	I guess the one that did that config should know	06:19
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: given that it's probably a kernel default, they might not...	06:20
BCMM	is there anything in one of the repos that offers reasonably realistic filesystem benchmarking?	06:21
BCMM	basically, it's said that noop often works surprisingly well with solid-state gear	06:22
BCMM	and i'd like to test that	06:22
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CableTwitch	Damnit. Dropped this bloody thing, and two of the top screws seem to have popped out.	06:36
CableTwitch	Just hoping they can be screwed back in.	06:37
CableTwitch	Otherwise, I might have to be on my 4th device XD	06:37
Sazpaimon	hmm, I hear the Komputerbay 16GB class 6 card is the fastest card when it comes to random access	06:38
Sazpaimon	I'll give that a whirl, it's only like $40	06:38
CableTwitch	16GB solid state for what... 30 quid? Not bad. That would have required a small mortgage 10 years ago.	06:39
Dhraakellian	I'm getting seemingly random crashes—I take the n900 out of my pocket, and it's powered off	06:40
Sazpaimon	no, microSDHC	06:40
Sazpaimon	not an SSD	06:40
CableTwitch	I didnt say SSD, Saz.	06:40
Sazpaimon	CableTwitch, that's usually implied nowadays, my bad	06:41
Dhraakellian	have to take the battery out and back in before I can reboot it	06:41
CableTwitch	I just said solid state ;O)	06:41
Sazpaimon	here's the card: http://www.amazon.com/KOMPUTERBAY-microSD-microSDHC-Memory-Adapter/dp/B003O996G8/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top I'm gonna try it in the N900 and see if it works faster than the internal eMMC as swap space	06:41
Sazpaimon	I've read reports that it works well on a windows phone 7 device, which has very high requirements in regards to random read/write speeds	06:42
Dhraakellian	just recently had a reflash, and the only -devel packages I have installed are Rockbox and its documentation	06:43
luke-jr	Sazpaimon: microSDHC is a SSD	06:43
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Sazpaimon	luke-jr, okay, you have me there	06:43
CableTwitch	I'd say CF was more an SSD thanSD	06:45
Dhraakellian	(it was happening before the reflash too)	06:45
CableTwitch	I wonder if we'll get an updated version of CF with a SATA interface?	06:47
SpeedEvil	Highly unliklely.	06:47
SpeedEvil	CF has an inherently fragile and expensive connector.	06:48
CableTwitch	The original CF was ATA, was it not?	06:48
SpeedEvil	Yes.	06:48
SpeedEvil	But ATA->UDMA is not a big step	06:48
SpeedEvil	it's the same number of pins, using them slightly differently.	06:48
luke-jr	theoretically, you could probably build a flash card that fits into a SATA connector :P	06:49
SpeedEvil	Not quite - SATAhasno power.	06:49
BCMM	i think quite a lot would already, with a bit of blu-tac maybe	06:49
SpeedEvil	It'd need to straddle both connecotors	06:49
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: eSATA does	06:50
SpeedEvil	oh	06:50
* Dhraakellian wonders if power management might have something to do with it and how to diagnose		06:53
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CableTwitch	Mind you, USB3 is a rather tasty development.	06:55
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Sazpaimon	looking further, the class 4 kingston 16GB seems to have the best random read/write speeds	06:55
CableTwitch	Might actually be worth using external SSD units, as they can take advantage of the high bandwidth.	06:55
Sazpaimon	I'll give that one a buy then, I trust kingston, never heard of komputerbay	06:56
CableTwitch	USB3 card readers.... RAID0 them :O)	06:56
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CableTwitch	Saz: Let us know what you find out with that card.	07:00
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CableTwitch	RobbieThe1st beep	07:07
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CableTwitch	(Still loopy)	07:07
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Sazpaimon	CableTwitch, I'm looking for cards that have good reports in windows phone devices	07:18
Sazpaimon	so far this has yeilded the best results	07:18
Sazpaimon	if a card has good performance in a windows phone, it's very high quality in terms of performance	07:19
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Sazpaimon	FWIW i still haven't gotten an N900 yet, I need to find a decent listing for it and get it once I get my tax return :(	07:19
Sazpaimon	i also need to go through the process of cancelling with AT&T and switching to tmo	07:21
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CableTwitch	Oh hell yes. The damabe I feared was simply retightening the screws.	07:30
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RobbieThe1st	...And I just learned to be very careful around PHP when you've done a lot of JS. a + in php between strings doesn't concatenate, but doesn't bring up a noticable error either.	07:39
schmeego	is there a way to lock keypresses and touchscreen input, while still keeping the display lit while on charger?	07:45
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schmeego	in n800 it does that if you have the setting to keep screen on while charging enabled, and then do lock screen and keys	07:46
schmeego	but in n900 it turns of display as well	07:47
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schmeego	*of = off	07:47
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pupnik	As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose — that it may violate property instead of protecting it — then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder.	08:11
pupnik	- Frederic Bastiat, http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html	08:11
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RobbieThe1st	DocScrutinizer: Ok, I've got a slight problem with that charge script. If BackupMenu is charging, and I reboot the device into Maemo, BME can't charge - It simply says "Not charging".	08:14
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Psi	is there an easy way to backup and restore the entire built-in flash on the n900?	08:27
RobbieThe1st	Yea... My application: BackupMenu	08:27
Psi	cool, does it backup to the microsd?	08:27
RobbieThe1st	Or eMMC, which ever you pick	08:27
RobbieThe1st	It's in extras-devel.	08:28
Psi	emmc?	08:28
RobbieThe1st	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975	08:28
RobbieThe1st	The internal flash(32-GB)	08:28
Psi	oh, so it can take a snapshot and backup to itself, nice	08:28
RobbieThe1st	Sort of, not quite - the eMMC is divided into several partitions: the /opt/ filesystem, some swap-space and the MyDocs partiton	08:29
RobbieThe1st	It will backup to the MyDocs partition or your SD card. It -takes- backups of the NAND flash and the /opt/ filesystem	08:30
Psi	i currently dont have a sd card	08:30
RobbieThe1st	Not an issue - that's what backing it up to the MyDocs is for - It's what's accessable over USB	08:31
Psi	what i want is to be able to make an image that i can copy to another pc so if i break/lose the phone i can restore a new n900 to the same state	08:31
DocScrutinizer	RobbieThe1st: seems bme has another bug there. I frequently need to restart bme 2 times, and/or need to replug the charger USB, to start charging	08:31
RobbieThe1st	When you plug it into a PC and you see "n900" show up? That's the MyDocs partition.	08:31
RobbieThe1st	DocScrutinizer: Hm, odd.	08:31
DocScrutinizer	RobbieThe1st: probably bme is relying on some initialization of bq24150 and /or 1707 PHY	08:32
Psi	RobbieThe1st: does it backup the mydocs partition itself?	08:32
DocScrutinizer	which normally is either power-on default state, or done by NOLO	08:32
RobbieThe1st	DocScrutinizer: That's what I'm thinking, but I need to figure out how to reset it to default	08:32
RobbieThe1st	Psi: No, and for good reason - it's 27GB. where could I copy it too?	08:33
RobbieThe1st	Psi: But that's not an issue - just plug it into your computer and copy it all from there.	08:33
Psi	yeah	08:33
Psi	could have it so you can backup to the mounted network share	08:34
Psi	the=a	08:34
RobbieThe1st	That can all be done from inside Maemo; Just a line or too of shell-script.	08:34
Psi	yeah	08:34
RobbieThe1st	Backupmenu does what -can't-; namely OS backup and restore.	08:35
Psi	ok, thanks, will try BackupMenu	08:35
DocScrutinizer	RobbieThe1st: first thing to try is to wait 30s after stopping charging script. This should trigger bq24150 watchdog and cause a power-on reset, you'll notice this (in standard system booted) by the steady amber lighting up, which indicates bq24150 entered emergency charging mode which is default after power-up	08:36
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RobbieThe1st	Yea, lets see,,,	08:37
Psi	RobbieThe1st: is the warning about permanent hardware damage from i2cset and i2c-tools normal	08:37
RobbieThe1st	Yea; just don't use i2cset yourself and you'll be fine	08:38
DocScrutinizer	yes	08:38
DocScrutinizer	there actually are some chips in N900 that have some registers marked as "do not write - might cause hardware damage"	08:39
DocScrutinizer	i2ctools are not a toy for users with no clue about the hw	08:39
RobbieThe1st	DocScrutinizer: And heck, if you write the wrong thing to the charger, you -could- end up frying the battery, couldn't you?	08:40
DocScrutinizer	nope	08:40
DocScrutinizer	definitely nope, no matter how many times whoever repeats such nonsense	08:40
RobbieThe1st	Oh. Thats good then.	08:40
Psi	yeah, probable for firmware reprogramming and voltage settings	08:40
DocScrutinizer	bq24150 is immanently safe for battery	08:41
DocScrutinizer	you can wear out the battery rather fast, by mistreating it via bq24150 misconfiguration	08:41
DocScrutinizer	but there's no way to destroy the battery in a few hours or even minutes	08:42
DocScrutinizer	even less there's any danger whatsoever	08:42
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RobbieThe1st	Oh heck. That's not worrysome at all then.	08:43
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Psi	RobbieThe1st: on boot got "error with cp /lib/libacl.so.1 /tmp/disk/lib/ code: 1"	08:45
RobbieThe1st	press space	08:45
RobbieThe1st	ignore it	08:45
RobbieThe1st	But I'll look at that error	08:46
DocScrutinizer	I.E. you can choose to set bq24150 to operation modes that are quite different from what's recommended, but you can't set it to operate battery outside of the cell's ABS MAX ratings, for all I know about those ratings (alas Nokia hasn't published those, so I have to use those of other similar cells)	08:46
Psi	getting a few more, pressing space again	08:46
RobbieThe1st	K.	08:46
Psi	ok, menu loaded	08:46
RobbieThe1st	At some point, would you mind writing those errors down?	08:46
Psi	i got 3 files	08:46
RobbieThe1st	That sounds right	08:47
RobbieThe1st	3 errors you mean?	08:47
Psi	yeah	08:47
RobbieThe1st	Psi: I assume you don't have a ssh-server installed?	08:48
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Psi	/lib/libacl.so.1 , /lib/libattr.so.1.1.0 and /usr/lib/liblzo2.so.2	08:49
Psi	all code 1	08:49
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RobbieThe1st	Yea.	08:49
RobbieThe1st	Thanks	08:49
Psi	i can ssh into the phone	08:49
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RobbieThe1st	-if- you have ssh-server installed	08:50
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Psi	i mean i have 'an' ssh server installed, i just dont know if its the package ssh-server (installed it quite a while ago)	08:53
RobbieThe1st	Alright	08:54
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Psi	phone is currently making a backup	08:54
DocScrutinizer	RobbieThe1st: btw bq24150 also isn't one of those chips that have forbidden registers - you can't destroy it via i2ctools.	08:54
RobbieThe1st	K. Out of curiosity, did you install it from my website, or the extras-devel repo, Psi?	08:54
DocScrutinizer	lis302 accel meter is marked as dangerous	08:55
RobbieThe1st	DocScrutinizer: That's good to know	08:55
Psi	RobbieThe1st: from the maemo package manager which i assume used extra-devel	08:56
RobbieThe1st	Alright	08:56
RobbieThe1st	Oh. -that- explains one of my problems	08:57
RobbieThe1st	Huh... I wonder why Version 0.60-2 never uploaded...	08:57
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DocScrutinizer	RobbieThe1st: I think you've noticed ShadowJK's script is nicely commented, so it's not really hard to understand and try to improve, if you're willing to read the chip's datasheet to learn about the meaning of the registers	08:58
MohammadAG	morning	08:58
Psi	i like the open-kbd = menu closed-kbd = normal boot	09:00
MohammadAG	I hate it, I want mind control!	09:01
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Psi	MohammadAG: sure, you'd just need to carry around a headset and a tube of conductive transducer jelly :P	09:03
MohammadAG	Psi, cool, right?	09:03
MohammadAG	:P	09:03
Psi	the idea is cool, but somehow i dont think it would look cool :P	09:04
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Psi	anyone know why recently i seem to have lost all the small fonts in the maemo terminal?	09:05
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Psi	it says "already at min font size" when im sure ive had it much smaller than that before	09:05
Psi	nevermind, going in to the terminal font options and changing it to 10pt seems to have got past the min font message, the +/- buttons are now changing the font size properly again	09:07
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Psi	RobbieThe1st: backup seems to have worked fine, files are in mydocs as expected, 1gb for opt and 270mb for root	09:09
RobbieThe1st	Good.	09:10
RobbieThe1st	Do note they are just tar files, so you can go in and change/fix things if you need.	09:11
Psi	yeah, i noticed	09:11
RobbieThe1st	(But remember to preserve permissions)	09:11
* Psi starts samba and copies them to other pc for backup		09:11
Psi	used to use sshfs to get files off phone but samba seems faster, probably because its not encrypting it	09:13
Psi	should get around to installing ftp	09:13
RobbieThe1st	meh. SSH/SCP's nice and works fast enough.	09:14
RobbieThe1st	secure = good	09:14
Psi	heh 7gb MyDocs over phone wifi, this is going to take a while	09:16
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Psi	ok, 5hours, this is insane	09:19
Psi	time to install ftp	09:19
RobbieThe1st	Why not connect it via USB?	09:19
RobbieThe1st	You'll get better speeds... and keep it charged	09:19
Psi	yeah, i could do that, but im just looking for an excuse to install ftp :)	09:20
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marlaw2	rsync rules :P	09:27
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marlaw2	i	09:28
marlaw2	i.e. resume	09:28
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Psi	looks like proftpd under easydebian is a little harder than just an apt-get (dependencie issues) oh well, usb mass storage mode it is	09:29
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Psi	is there anything else i should check when it wont usb mount due to device in use? lsof has nothing to do with MyDocs and ive shutdown the debianchroot	09:41
marlaw2	Psi, there should be grync in the maemo repo	09:43
marlaw2	probably extra	09:43
RobbieThe1st	I find that unplugging, waiting for 5-10 seconds, then replugging works most of the timne	09:43
marlaw2	if you need ui	09:43
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RobbieThe1st	DocScrutinizer: Am I reading this write? If I set the MSB of register 04 to a 1, the chip goes into reset mode?	10:01
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RobbieThe1st	s/write/right/g	10:01
infobot	RobbieThe1st meant: DocScrutinizer: Am I reading this right? If I set the MSB of register 04 to a 1, the chip goes into reset mode?	10:01
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DocScrutinizer	# tickle watchdog timer	10:02
DocScrutinizer	$i2cset -y -m 0x80 2 0x6b 0x00 0x80;	10:02
DocScrutinizer	err	10:02
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DocScrutinizer	# reset bq24150	10:02
DocScrutinizer	$i2cset -y -m 0x80 2 0x6b 0x04 0x80	10:02
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RobbieThe1st	Oh, good. I think I was right, then	10:03
DocScrutinizer	trap cleanup INT QUIT TERM EXIT	10:03
DocScrutinizer	cleanup(){	10:03
DocScrutinizer	trap - INT QUIT TERM EXIT	10:03
DocScrutinizer	# reset bq24150	10:03
DocScrutinizer	$i2cset -y -m 0x80 2 0x6b 0x04 0x80	10:03
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RobbieThe1st	It was commented out on my copy of the charger-script for some reason	10:04
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DocScrutinizer	err, I'm not aware the charger script has it	10:04
RobbieThe1st	#echo -n Reset...	10:04
RobbieThe1st	#i2cset -y -m 0x80 2 0x6b 0x04 80	10:04
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DocScrutinizer	above is a quote from my jrbme script	10:05
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RobbieThe1st	I'm talking about shadow's script, the one you linked me to	10:05
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RobbieThe1st	Either way, this -might- just solve my problem	10:05
DocScrutinizer	yes, it probably does. Esp if you use trap	10:05
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RobbieThe1st	Yes!	10:12
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RobbieThe1st	..Aand, for anyone that cares, Version 0.61-1 has been uploaded with fixed charging support, SSH-mode working right again, and a couple of other bugfixes	10:22
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	10:28
DocScrutinizer	RobbieThe1st: it's been commented out in charger because it's useless at start of script	10:30
RobbieThe1st	ah, yea	10:30
RobbieThe1st	It's sort of useful at the -end-, though.	10:30
DocScrutinizer	you need a cleanup() that's called via trap	10:31
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DocScrutinizer	as there's no "end" when script gets cancelled	10:31
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[DrkGUNMAN-N900]	I'm a bit late to the conversation - what is this update in relation to?	10:32
jacekowski	hmm,apparently egypt is disconnected from internet	10:32
RobbieThe1st	Point, though in my case I'm not worried - I know where I'm killing that script, so I can just run it at that point	10:32
RobbieThe1st	Provided someone doesn't yank the battery, it'll all work perfectly.	10:32
DocScrutinizer	RobbieThe1st: err sorry - how can you execute something at a certain point in a script conditional just when it's killed?	10:34
DocScrutinizer	how do you stop the scrpt?	10:34
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RobbieThe1st	Simple: Script A launches charge-script B. At shutdown time, script A kills script B, then runs the reset-command, unmounts everything, and powers off	10:35
DocScrutinizer	ouch	10:35
DocScrutinizer	well, it works	10:35
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RobbieThe1st	It works nicely; script A is the rest of my program, so I'm not exactly adding anything extra	10:36
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DocScrutinizer	it's unclean though, as you'll probably run the umount and kill even when there's nothing to kill or reset	10:37
DocScrutinizer	proper way to implement such things is to have a trap section in your primary script	10:37
johnx	or: umount /my/fs &> /dev/null	10:37
johnx	also clean	10:37
RobbieThe1st	Unless the charge-script dies due to a glich, there's no way it's going to be shut off.. :\	10:37
johnx	(though bash-centric)	10:38
RobbieThe1st	Mainly because it's launched at startup, no matter if USB is connected or not. Laggy, but seems to work	10:38
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DocScrutinizer	you noticed your first statement justifying the 2 script approach started with "unless"? :-)	10:38
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DocScrutinizer	this "unless" was why I said "proper way"	10:39
RobbieThe1st	What I'm not sure is the benefit - I'd be moving the reset line from script A into script B; I	10:40
RobbieThe1st	I'd -still- have to kill script B from script A..	10:40
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RobbieThe1st	Because script A is my application	10:40
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DocScrutinizer	well, also because you frequently prefer to have one sequence of commands forming a function, in one file, just for clarity and maintainability	10:40
RobbieThe1st	That there might be a point.	10:41
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DocScrutinizer	somebody night decide to call script B, unaware it isn't working without the "postprocessing" in script A	10:42
DocScrutinizer	s/night/might/.	10:42
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RobbieThe1st	Eh... In this case, though, I -know- the reset code will be run no matter what else happens. If there's an error in the charge-script and it dies... No worries.	10:42
RobbieThe1st	And, nomatter what anyone does via SSH, it will -still- get reset as it's one of the last lines before reboot; no time for someone to screw things up	10:43
DocScrutinizer	I might call the script in my normal system	10:44
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RobbieThe1st	Yea. I might add a second copy to the script later, when JRBME comes out... But this seems a lot more foolproof.	10:44
DocScrutinizer	and I bet somebody will do	10:44
DocScrutinizer	(wait for jrbme) that's what I'd suggest anyway	10:44
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RobbieThe1st	I'm doing both. Right now, this works, seems to work well... and No reason to take it out when it makes people happy.	10:45
DocScrutinizer	yesyes, you even promoted it aiui	10:45
RobbieThe1st	I did?	10:45
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DocScrutinizer	so no hurry, just update to jrbme when available	10:45
RobbieThe1st	Oh, wait... charging. Yea. Yea.	10:45
DocScrutinizer	[2011-01-28 09:22:27] <RobbieThe1st> ..Aand, for anyone that cares, Version 0.61-1 has been uploaded with fixed charging support, SSH-mode working right again, and a couple of other bugfixes	10:46
RobbieThe1st	Yes! It's up in devel now. It sure takes a bit, doesn't it?	10:46
RobbieThe1st	DocScrutinizer: Yea; I thought for a minute you meant "promoted" as in "promoted to extras-testing"	10:46
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DocScrutinizer	was not sure about that, but whatever, you published it, so no use in "revoking" anything right now	10:47
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MohammadAG	ugh	10:49
MohammadAG	windows is retarded	10:49
MohammadAG	it nuked itself on my laptop	10:50
RobbieThe1st	^^	10:50
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MohammadAG	seriously	10:50
RobbieThe1st	7, vista or XP?	10:50
MohammadAG	chkdsk deleted dlls	10:50
MohammadAG	system dlls!	10:50
MohammadAG	7	10:50
RobbieThe1st	Sounds about right	10:50
MohammadAG	I need to reinstall some "WDAC" thing, and it's part of the OS	10:50
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RobbieThe1st	Y'know, you'd think that these days it could automatically detect a broken file, connect to MS's site and download an appropriate copy in a couple of minutes...	10:51
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`Ika_Musume	humm	11:09
`Ika_Musume	is there any japanese language support for n	11:10
`Ika_Musume	n900	11:10
psycho_oreos	in what way?	11:10
`Ika_Musume	well regional, since it doesnt support all kanji	11:12
DocScrutinizer	wasn't "leaked" 1.2 about honkong or sth?	11:12
`Ika_Musume	i dont know i havnt been updated	11:13
psycho_oreos	humm that I'm not sure of, I do know that media player does show Japanese titles but inputting and UI = no support	11:13
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`Ika_Musume	so noo regional ?	11:14
psycho_oreos	none that I'm aware of	11:14
`Ika_Musume	ok	11:14
DocScrutinizer	check available firmware image versions	11:14
`Ika_Musume	humm	11:14
psycho_oreos	but like I said media player does show Japanese titles if they were embedded	11:14
psycho_oreos	there's HK support for menus and very basic input for Chinese	11:15
psycho_oreos	oh and those support are only available via extras-devel	11:15
`Ika_Musume	its not media player , its for xchat and internets	11:15
`Ika_Musume	i hardcode subs into movies if i need to since anime have karaoke fansubsubs	11:16
psycho_oreos	xchat Japanese input? yeah that requires something like scim which I don't think there's one for Japanese	11:16
`Ika_Musume	i see	11:16
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`Ika_Musume	thx anyways	11:17
psycho_oreos	internets such as browsing? well there's 3rd party browsers like chromium or firefox fennec or opera mobile for instance which can probably render Japanese texts	11:17
`Ika_Musume	firefox sux , its to old and plugins arnt supported	11:18
`Ika_Musume	opera eh , it dont support adobe flash	11:18
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psycho_oreos	its fennec here we are talking about. Maemo's stock browser microB is based on firefox :p	11:18
`Ika_Musume	it is?	11:19
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psycho_oreos	well the internal engine pretty much is	11:19
`Ika_Musume	but it looks more like IE	11:19
psycho_oreos	hmm microB seems to also be able to render Japanese texts	11:19
psycho_oreos	lol IE	11:19
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`Ika_Musume	do you gys know if there ia any news on flash ?	11:20
`Ika_Musume	flash is the heart of the internets >_>	11:20
psycho_oreos	it isn't	11:21
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`Ika_Musume	cuz changing the flash ver doesnt always work	11:21
arp_	flash is far away from the heart of internetz ;)	11:21
`Ika_Musume	well 70% of webpages use flash	11:21
arp_	and if you remove the ad's, how many uses flash then? ;)	11:22
`Ika_Musume	well its not only ads	11:22
`Ika_Musume	its also menu,s	11:22
arp_	the sites i visit doesn't use flash	11:23
`Ika_Musume	most of our dutch sites are flash based menu's	11:23
`Ika_Musume	its not just ad's sadly	11:24
`Ika_Musume	ohwell , hows meego going?	11:25
psycho_oreos	-> #meego	11:25
`Ika_Musume	is is beter then maemo?	11:25
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psycho_oreos	to the clueless, maybe	11:26
`Ika_Musume	i think there is just not enough support for lnux systems	11:26
psycho_oreos	which is quite a contrary, have a look at android	11:27
`Ika_Musume	how does windows run on n900?	11:27
`Ika_Musume	slow i guess	11:28
psycho_oreos	with little hope	11:28
`Ika_Musume	humm	11:28
psycho_oreos	1) windows hardly came out with ARM ports so they have to run through emulator 2) The hardware specs for N900 maybe a little too underpowered for the likes of bloated windows XP and beyond	11:28
`Ika_Musume	i see	11:29
RobbieThe1st	Dos on the other hand... While emulated in dosbox, it's still quick because it's light.	11:30
psycho_oreos	more like because its 16bit ;)	11:30
DocScrutinizer	wtf, a site that's using flash menu is so fubar, I wish they had a blacklist that would enable my browser to not even try to open such crap	11:31
RobbieThe1st	Eh... Isnt W98 16-bit also?	11:31
RobbieThe1st	Or was that 3.1	11:31
`Ika_Musume	heh	11:31
psycho_oreos	linux console would be far more faster than DOS, because it can be cross compiled to ARM unlike standard DOS (unless yes you're comparing against freeDOS)	11:32
psycho_oreos	I was kidding	11:32
RobbieThe1st	But yea, of course. And it is extremely fast, and we -do- have it.	11:33
DocScrutinizer	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ	11:34
`Ika_Musume	also whats the best video player witch support most formats? and attachments in mkv	11:34
RobbieThe1st	mplayer?	11:35
RobbieThe1st	But if you want a gui, kmplayer(which uses mplayer)	11:35
psycho_oreos	there's smplayer as well	11:36
`Ika_Musume	well 99% doesnt play if i keep it mkv though	11:36
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RobbieThe1st	kmplayer ought to play it provided the video/audio codecs are in place	11:37
psycho_oreos	I think it also heavily depends on the resolution/quality of the mkv	11:37
RobbieThe1st	mkv's just a container, and mplayer understands that	11:37
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psycho_oreos	if you were going to play blueray ripped movies for example of course it won't play, its too demanding	11:37
DocScrutinizer	or would you prefer WinNT? http://www.tuug.fi/~toni/serendipity/index.php?/archives/9-Windows-NT-4.0-running-on-N900!.html	11:37
`Ika_Musume	lol nah there is 480 p encodes	11:37
`Ika_Musume	if it only was able to play them	11:38
`Ika_Musume	i havnt to re encode	11:38
DocScrutinizer	(watch the clock!)	11:38
`Ika_Musume	clock?	11:39
`Ika_Musume	they say its able to play h264 but i havnt been able to play mkv baseline h264	11:40
`Ika_Musume	only as mpr	11:40
`Ika_Musume	mp4	11:41
RobbieThe1st	What error do you get in the console?	11:41
RobbieThe1st	when you run "mplayer ./myvideo.mkv" or w/e	11:41
`Ika_Musume	unable to play format	11:41
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`Ika_Musume	well i load it basicly with mplayer not via xterm	11:42
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RobbieThe1st	Run it via the terminal if you want to get any -meaningful- error datsa	11:43
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`Ika_Musume	humm so if its in .video how do i load it?	11:43
RobbieThe1st	cd ./MyDocs/.video/	11:44
RobbieThe1st	then mplayer ./whatever	11:44
RobbieThe1st	note that tab autocompletes	11:44
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`Ika_Musume	kk gonna try an 704x400	11:45
`Ika_Musume	downloadin onee	11:45
DocScrutinizer	actually it's been this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFjl3Ob3VpU where you should watch the clock, to not lose your timing	11:49
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MohammadAG	who uses x64 windows 7 here?	11:53
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`Ika_Musume	tab? n900 have one?	11:55
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RobbieThe1st	MohammadAG: I have a copy installed on my laptop, why?	11:56
MohammadAG	RobbieThe1st, can you check if you have odbc32.dll v 6.7600.16385?	11:56
MohammadAG	I'm kinda desperate now :/	11:56
RobbieThe1st	Eh, sure	11:56
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`Ika_Musume	img829.imageshack.us/img829/3256/screenshot2011012811020.png	12:01
`Ika_Musume	doesnt play t.t	12:01
RobbieThe1st		12:03
RobbieThe1st		12:03
RobbieThe1st		12:03
RobbieThe1st		12:03
RobbieThe1st	MohammadAG From windows/system32 or windows/syswow64 ?	12:03
RobbieThe1st	Ooh, I wonder what happened there...?	12:03
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MohammadAG	Windows/system32 afaik	12:04
RobbieThe1st	http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/files/odbc32.dll	12:05
RobbieThe1st	Not sure the fersion; I cbf actually running windows	12:05
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MohammadAG	RobbieThe1st, thanks, that's the version I need, but it didn't solve the problem :/	12:08
RobbieThe1st	Darn. Any other files?	12:09
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MohammadAG	I'm not really sure :/	12:11
* MohammadAG attempts to reboot		12:12
RobbieThe1st	Let me know if you do; I've got the laptop handy now.	12:12
achipa	X-Fade: X-Fade_ ping	12:12
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MohammadAG	achipa, friday = weekend = he might not pong :p	12:14
achipa	sigh	12:14
achipa	well then no mobility 1.2 for a while :S	12:14
achipa	for some reasons it 'forgets' to publish it, even thought apparently the build went fine (I get the OK mail and the build dirs have the debs...)	12:15
achipa	anyone with similar issues ?	12:15
RobbieThe1st	It did it to me last night	12:16
RobbieThe1st	I built another build today and that worked fine :\	12:16
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achipa	I would normally retry myself, it's just that uploading tens of megs through proxy hell is not fun...	12:18
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RobbieThe1st	achipa: That's what access to a VPS + ssh is for. :P	12:20
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achipa	well, if ssh worked well, I could just dput it ;)	12:21
MohammadAG	hmm	12:21
RobbieThe1st	Huh... what's wrong?	12:21
MohammadAG	RobbieThe1st, is the file in syswow64 different?	12:21
RobbieThe1st	Um... No clue.	12:22
RobbieThe1st	want me to check?	12:22
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MohammadAG	if you can	12:23
_ke	how do you guys sync your n900 with evolution?	12:23
MohammadAG	I might just give up and reinstall windows	12:23
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al_0	where I can find the buzilla skin you guys use for maemo?	12:25
al_0	*bugzilla	12:25
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RobbieThe1st	MohammadAG: the SysWOW64 copy is 565248b; the System32 copy is 712704b.	12:28
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RobbieThe1st	http://robbiethe1st.afraid.org/files/private/odbc32.dll	12:29
RobbieThe1st	For the WOW64 one	12:29
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X-Fade	al_0: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=bugs	12:30
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al_0	X-Fade: thanks :)	12:30
X-Fade	al_0: bugs project at garage.	12:30
MohammadAG	RobbieThe1st, THANKS!	12:31
RobbieThe1st	It worked?	12:31
MohammadAG	yep :D	12:31
MohammadAG	one more question, by any chance, do you have windows live essentials installed?	12:31
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RobbieThe1st	Yea	12:33
RobbieThe1st	Though it's slightly out-of-date thanks to it deciding my copy of Windows was not genuine the last time I booted it up(about a month ago)	12:34
MohammadAG	hmm	12:36
MohammadAG	the installer keeps saying UXcore.dll is missing	12:36
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RobbieThe1st	Lets see	12:38
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RobbieThe1st	Nope; "UXcore.dll" doesn't seem to exist my my Windows partition	12:39
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MohammadAG	C:\Program Files (X86)\Windows Live is where it should be afaik	12:40
RobbieThe1st	Nope; no Windows Live folder here	12:41
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MohammadAG	anyway, thanks, you were a big help :)	12:42
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RobbieThe1st	NP	12:44
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jonwil	My N900 is now in the process of being fixed by Nokia Care	12:47
jonwil	Hopefully fixing whatever is causing the non-working indicator LED will not be complicated	12:48
jonwil	They gave me an estimate of "2-3 days" so hopefully it will be ready Monday or Tuesday	12:48
psycho_oreos	did you also made sure to backup yer important data?	12:48
kerio	>end delete it from the n900	12:49
jonwil	yes I did	12:49
kerio	*and	12:49
jonwil	I backed up everything from the phone	12:49
jonwil	I didn't delete anything	12:49
kerio	the nokia engineers are now fapping on your $SO's nude pics	12:49
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jonwil	I dont have any pictures on my phone except whatever it came with	12:50
jonwil	and some pictures of cars as my wallpapers	12:50
kerio	they are fapping on the cars pictures then	12:50
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psycho_oreos	lol	12:50
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jonwil	well the Nokia Care website says "phone collected and awaiting analysis by a nokia technician" so they dont appear to have looked at it yet (which makes sense given that they are the only place in the state doing warranty repairs for Nokia handsets)	12:59
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jonwil	so now I am phoneless for the next few days until its fixed	13:02
psycho_oreos	I suppose you might be able to bug them through some public phone :)	13:04
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mece	hey how do I send a dbus call from xterm? Would like to do MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR	13:20
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jonwil	I dont need to bug them, I will get an email when they are done	13:21
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mece	hmm perhaps something like dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_enable_vibrator	13:23
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mece	ahaa. The correct one is dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_enable	13:34
DocScrutinizer	umm	13:34
DocScrutinizer	not exactly	13:34
mece	yes exactly	13:35
DocScrutinizer	nope	13:36
DocScrutinizer	dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_pattern_activate string:PatternIncomingCall	13:36
DocScrutinizer	req_vibrator_enable is doing just this: it enables the vibrator, but doesn't start it	13:36
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kerio	listen to DocScrutinizer, he knows his shit	13:37
mece	DocScrutinizer, and what did I ask?	13:37
DocScrutinizer	mmmpf	13:37
mece	"Would like to do MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR" Is what I said.	13:37
DocScrutinizer	k	13:37
mece	:P	13:37
mece	anyway	13:37
DocScrutinizer	whatever MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR might be	13:38
DocScrutinizer	looks like a kernel_config	13:38
DocScrutinizer	:-P	13:38
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jonwil	MCE_ENABLE_VIBRATOR is a #define in the mce-dev package	13:39
jonwil	and is #defined to req_vibrator_enable	13:39
mece	yep	13:39
mece	anyway	13:39
mece	the example here: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Using_MCE_interface_for_vibration_activation_in_Maemo_5	13:39
mece	causes vibrator to be disabled on shutdown, regardless if it was enabled when the program started.	13:40
mece	and I used said example in an application	13:40
mece	and it caused problems	13:41
mece	and I wanted to enable my vibrator without having to restart the phone	13:41
mece	fixed the bug though :) (Just removed the enable/disable bits, since it should comply to the silence bits.	13:41
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DocScrutinizer	sounds simple enough	13:44
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DocScrutinizer	and we learnt "don't use poorly written and/or documented examples" :-)	13:46
mece	yeah, I did it in a hurry.	13:48
mece	the example is fairly obvious, but I left in the enable bit for some reason. Guess I figured it was required to get that thing started.	13:49
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mece	I really need to get this thing packed up and sent to devel	13:54
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alterego	Oh, this is awesome :D	13:55
mece	alterego, what is?	13:55
alterego	QGraphicsView + OpenGL + QWidgets	13:56
mece	ok...?	13:56
alterego	http://www.crossplatform.ru/node/612	13:56
alterego	It works on the N900 :D	13:56
alterego	Allows for transparent widget overlays ontop or below an OpenGL (ES) rendered scene	13:56
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mece	yes	13:57
mece	is this news?	13:57
alterego	Well, no, but it's the first time I've played with it :)	13:58
mece	(I agree that it's awesome)	13:58
mece	what are you making?	13:58
alterego	I'm working on a "next gen" UX for my app Columbus.	13:58
mece	in 3d?	13:58
alterego	Yes	13:58
mece	oo	13:58
mece	magic!	13:59
alterego	:)	13:59
mece	btw	13:59
mece	interesting thing about qt apps	13:59
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alterego	This is all for v2, (still need to release v1) v2 will have desktop, maemo and meego UX	14:00
alterego	Maybe Symbian if I can get my hands on a recent Symbian device.	14:00
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* SpeedEvil keeps misreading symbian without the m		14:02
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DocScrutinizer	interesting how one half of N900 users is complaining about sluggish OS and fscks up the hw by OC, while another half is developing 3D GUIs and media players that distort album art just for fun and to annoy those who think the original was nice enough and just barely legible without any further distortion crippling it	14:05
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: you think my UI is distorted?	14:06
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alterego	mece: what's interesting about Qt apps? :P	14:06
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DocScrutinizer	I think I've seen album cover art distorted in some screenshots of that new mediaplayer	14:07
alterego	Oh, and you don't like it?	14:07
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mcepl	andre900: what is the current thinking on https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9237 ... I went through the second pair of Nokia headphones and I don't feel like buying the third pair.	14:45
povbot	Bug 9237: Nokia's supplied wired earphone no longer detected after flashing	14:45
mcepl	Is it basically hopeless and I should buy Bluetooth or USB (does it exist?) ones?	14:45
alterego	http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/Screenshot-20110128-124225.png	14:46
alterego	teeheehee	14:46
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andre__	mcepl: I don't have a current thinking on that	15:03
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MohammadAG	mcepl, uh, broken headset?	15:06
MohammadAG	flashing doesn't alter hardware	15:06
mcepl	MohammadAG: broken SECOND headset (this one stayed two weeks before being broken)	15:07
SpeedEvil	mcepl: Sure it's not a dodgy socket?	15:07
mcepl	and yes dmesg shows that system recognizes connecting and disconnecting it	15:07
mcepl	other headphoens work	15:07
MohammadAG	then you're breaking the mic	15:08
MohammadAG	alterego, cool	15:08
alterego	MohammadAG: looks good doesn't it :)	15:08
alterego	I just copied the graphics engine code into a new project and copied that columbus widget into the new project	15:09
MohammadAG	alterego, yeah, although I have no idea what it is :P	15:09
alterego	Created a new rendering "canvas" for my graphics engine and it allows me to overlay standard Qt widgets ontop of the scene.	15:09
mcepl	MohammadAG: could you elaborate on "breaking the mic"? Other headphones work with this N900 and these headphones work elsewhere. What am I breaking?	15:09
MohammadAG	the piece with the mic	15:10
MohammadAG	if the headset has a mic, the N900 does some checks which I don't know about	15:10
mcepl	how?	15:10
MohammadAG	I know this, cause I broke mine	15:10
MohammadAG	if you use another plug in between the headset, it'll work, mic won't though, because of the absence of the 4th pin	15:11
psycho_oreos	so that audio jack is even more flaky compared to n95? heh	15:12
mcepl	lovely ...	15:14
MohammadAG	no	15:14
MohammadAG	psycho_oreos, no	15:15
MohammadAG	the software to detect a headset is	15:15
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psycho_oreos	MohammadAG, o.O I was about to say, nokia producing delicate hardwares too now :) oh well I guess its the software side as usual for mameo	15:16
MohammadAG	psycho_oreos, kernel detects the kernel, but that thing that detects the mic is causing problems	15:16
alterego	There's a check to decide whether it's an a/v lead or headset when there's four poles.	15:17
psycho_oreos	MohammadAG, yeah I was reading up on the bug report	15:17
alterego	And I think that's handled by a resistor.	15:17
MohammadAG	psycho_oreos, meh, I don't read bug reports, I vote on important ones :P	15:18
psycho_oreos	and tlol	15:18
MohammadAG	alterego, yeah, and software	15:18
psycho_oreos	s/and tlol/lol/	15:18
infobot	psycho_oreos meant: lol	15:18
MohammadAG	though DocScrutinizer knows more about this	15:18
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, ping, I need UI suggestions for hostmode :P	15:18
* DocScrutinizer yawns		15:18
alterego	Next I need to integrate Qml widgets into my new columbus ux	15:19
psycho_oreos	the old n95 prompted asking if the plugged in device was either a headset or tv-stand. I used to tinker on that hours on end plugging and unplugging repetitively	15:19
alterego	Well, I should probably finish v1, first, :D	15:19
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you remember 26. ? shall I pastebin the chanlog of #mhd?	15:19
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, that's not the point	15:19
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: or is there some other problem with suggestions?	15:19
MohammadAG	should I make the widgets scrollable in the UI	15:19
MohammadAG	should I get rid of buttons, etc	15:19
alterego	bbl	15:20
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you don't know of a nice N900-borne rapid prototyping tool for qt GUI?	15:21
MohammadAG	http://i55.tinypic.com/28i259z.jpg	15:21
MohammadAG	I'm thinking of dumping the numbers	15:21
mcepl	I am not sure I understand what you are saying ... when I plug in headphones, NOTHING works, not only mic, nothing. By "using different plugin" you mean using some conversion to headphone micless jack?	15:21
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MohammadAG	plug the headset into a female to male adapter, and plug the male end in the N900	15:22
MohammadAG	the headphone will work, the mic won't	15:22
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: it's handled by resistance of third contact from tip to GND	15:22
Funnyface	hmm, yeah how's the progress with USB host mode? working yet?	15:22
MohammadAG	then getting rid of the title	15:22
DocScrutinizer	mic=2kR	15:22
mcepl	MohammadAG: will try	15:22
MohammadAG	Funnyface, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232	15:23
DocScrutinizer	dunno about video/AV, either it's 1k, or 10k	15:23
Funnyface	brilliant :P	15:24
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Funnyface	next step is charging + USB host at the same time then I guess. lol'	15:25
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DocScrutinizer	Funnyface: eh?	15:25
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Funnyface	well they already made the impossible possible so why not? ^^	15:25
MohammadAG	Funnyface, already done	15:25
DocScrutinizer	Funnyface: see this very thread, my 3rd last post	15:26
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DocScrutinizer	it's basically as simple as boostoff; charger;	15:27
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I don't get it. Did you ignore my suggestions for this version, or was I fuzzy as always?	15:28
Funnyface	I can imagine someone plugging in a TV, and a USB hub with all sorts of USB devices hooked up to it ^^	15:28
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, hmm, no, you weren't	15:29
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, just lemme check up on everything	15:29
MohammadAG	speed detection can be auto by jrbme	15:29
Funnyface	mouse, keyboard, printer, USB NIC	15:29
MohammadAG	so I need to have auto manual = high/full/low, right?	15:29
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: upper left: "speed" -> like clicking system menu-profile	15:29
alterego	N8 has bluetooth 3 doesn't it?	15:29
MohammadAG	alterego, yes	15:30
MohammadAG	295kbps between the laptop and the N8	15:30
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: upper right: vbus, same thing, just (on, assisted, manually)	15:30
alterego	cool, lets hope N9 has it :)	15:30
MohammadAG	it does :P	15:30
alterego	Hah	15:30
alterego	Yes I forgot you had one :P	15:30
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DocScrutinizer	on selecting assisted or manually, a second menu pops up to select Ampere to charge	15:30
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, ah, so not a radio button like the one in the screenshot above	15:31
alterego	Got a couple of new (small) app ideas, gonna this time do an Ovi release.	15:31
MohammadAG	alterego, fart apps?	15:31
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: middle: one large button "START"	15:31
alterego	nope	15:31
Funnyface	is the phone capable of supplying 500mA btw?	15:32
DocScrutinizer	200m	15:32
alterego	Funnyface: no	15:32
DocScrutinizer	A	15:32
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Funnyface	ok	15:32
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alterego	I thought 250?	15:32
MohammadAG	5V @ 200mA	15:32
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MohammadAG	you mixed both numbers	15:32
MohammadAG	:P	15:32
alterego	Heh	15:32
alterego	Or I'm mixing up OTG spec ;)	15:32
DocScrutinizer	nope	15:33
MohammadAG	isn't OTG spec 20mA?	15:33
alterego	How is jrbme coming along?	15:33
MohammadAG	I might be wrong	15:33
DocScrutinizer	sitting here, reading manpages	15:33
MohammadAG	but the N8 doesn't charge the N900	15:33
alterego	I seriously want usb host + charging	15:33
DocScrutinizer	and helping MohammadAG to specify the GUI for it	15:33
MohammadAG	actually, it does, for some time, then the N900 shows Not Charging	15:33
DocScrutinizer	meanwhile coding every now and then	15:33
DocScrutinizer	well "coding"	15:33
* MohammadAG tries to get concept up		15:34
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* alterego wonders how safe strobing the flashlight would be		15:35
DocScrutinizer	OTG spec is like 8mA iirc	15:35
DocScrutinizer	for certain operation modes	15:35
DocScrutinizer	otherwise unspecified	15:35
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: for your eyes? NOT	15:36
MohammadAG	in flashlight mode, it shouldn't be bad	15:36
MohammadAG	I guess	15:36
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DocScrutinizer	flashlight mode (aka 50mA) is ok	15:36
MohammadAG	alterego, VU flashlight?	15:37
DocScrutinizer	you mustn't use flash mode (300mA?)	15:37
MohammadAG	then make a motor controlled colour overlay changer	15:37
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MohammadAG	then we can have a mini disco ball	15:37
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DocScrutinizer	the fire a few USB rockets with glitter	15:38
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alterego	Yeah, might try that, would be interested to know how fast I can make it strobe (in flashlight mode)	15:41
DocScrutinizer	too fast	15:41
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, so something like http://i54.tinypic.com/3ybs0.jpg ?	15:41
MohammadAG	alterego, enough to make a bat start using columbus	15:42
DocScrutinizer	alterego: if you want to kill the LED, then try how fast it goes	15:42
alterego	DocScrutinizer: heh	15:42
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alterego	It's a bad idea I know	15:42
MohammadAG	there's an app for it on symbian actually	15:42
SpeedEvil	Ensure a duty cycle of ~1/10th or so at full power, and you should be OK	15:42
alterego	But Symbian has a strobe app ^.^	15:42
SpeedEvil	The driver does not protect from multiple sequential flashes with a duty cycle approaching 100%	15:43
SpeedEvil	you can kill it	15:43
MohammadAG	would that get me arrested?	15:43
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, fyi, it's ugly atm	15:43
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: almost- just for the layout: move the Ampere button first row, and make vbus and ampere bot 1/4 width	15:43
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DocScrutinizer	maybe make the start button square and ¿¿red??, and left aligned. and use the right huge empty space for status textscroll	15:45
MohammadAG	so like this? http://i53.tinypic.com/2itmxeb.jpg (it's very ugly tbh :P)	15:46
DocScrutinizer	not 1/3 1/3 1/3. I thought like 1/2, 5/16, 3/16	15:47
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alterego	Weird, I just did a ctrl+n expecting it to automatically open a new contact page from the desktop	15:51
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BCMM	oh wow @ the topic... "Problem is I have absolutely no backup of my data."	15:56
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BCMM	on an overclocked device...	15:57
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BCMM	DocScrutinizer: pardon me for picking up on the end of a conversation, but was what is and isn't safe for the flash LED being discussed?	15:59
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BCMM	(i'm in the process of trying to write an app to play around with fcam, and want to know if it's possible for an error to damage anything	16:00
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BCMM	is there a wiki page or something documenting what it's OK to ask the flash to do? is fcam in fact capable of doing bad things to it?	16:03
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM: there's a max duration for flash of iirc 0.5s. Alas they haven't specified on/off ratio. But I guess flashing every second for 0.5s will rapidly overheat and kill the diodes	16:05
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: max duration enforced by? hardware? fcam?	16:05
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BCMM	and are you basically saying that nobody knows how many times you can fire consecutively without ruining something?	16:06
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BCMM	is it even capable of firing like that? it doesn't use a capacitor to get taht much current or anything?	16:06
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: I dunno what fcam can or cant do to flash. But iirc the flash driver chip itself has a timer to limit flash duration. But no heat shutoff or long term on-time counter	16:06
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM: max duration enforced by driver comment :-D	16:07
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: i meant, can the hardware really fire again that soon, or is there a cap to recharge?	16:07
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: "driver comment"?	16:07
DocScrutinizer	no cap to recharge	16:07
MohammadAG	<DocScrutinizer> not 1/3 1/3 1/3. I thought like 1/2, 5/16, 3/16	16:08
MohammadAG	I didn't get that	16:08
DocScrutinizer	you can fire flash like 10/s runing it in 3s	16:08
DocScrutinizer	ruining	16:08
BCMM	sorry, not quite sure i understood that	16:08
BCMM	on, 10 times a second?	16:08
BCMM	ah, so people have actually ruined them then?	16:08
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: speed button 50% width, vbus 30%, Amp 20%	16:09
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM: not afaik	16:09
BCMM	anyway, there basically isn't data on what is safe?	16:09
DocScrutinizer	no, just a comment in driver source	16:10
DocScrutinizer	plus empiric data from SpeedEvil	16:10
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: oh, you mean there is a comment in the driver source saying "don't fire for me than .5s even though this driver will support that"?	16:10
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DocScrutinizer	something along that line	16:11
BCMM	i should probably just read it myself... where can i get said source?	16:11
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DocScrutinizer	err, maybe wiki has a pointer, under LEDs or sth	16:11
magnus_	im considering getting a n900 for some development and to use as my everyday phone. i read that maemo is not actively developed anymore, and that meegoo is the new thing. will meegoo run on n900 without any obvious downsides (same battery life, same performance, same functionality etc)	16:12
BCMM	SpeedEvil: "Ensure a duty cycle of ~1/10th or so at full power" - does that mean "full power one-tenth of the time"?	16:12
DocScrutinizer	I doubt it	16:12
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DocScrutinizer	magnus_: anyway for now that's defnitely not given	16:13
RST38h	magnus: google? =)	16:13
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: yes	16:13
* RST38h hides		16:13
magnus_	RST38h, well, i found n900 as "supported hw" on meego homepage. but it doesn't really say how well it works now	16:13
RST38h	Doc: actually, do we have a relevant wiki extract in the bot somewhere?	16:13
BCMM	oh, that isn't bad at all	16:13
BCMM	that'd almost be usable for strobe photography, with extreme caution	16:14
magnus_	so, does anyone here run meego on n900? and whats your experience with it? (using it as your primary phone)	16:14
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: ??	16:14
BCMM	anyone know if fcam supports low-power flashes?	16:14
RST38h	Doc: the bot responds to certain keywords with their definitions	16:14
kov	magnus_, I booted it after installing in a micro sd card, it was completely unusable in its current state	16:14
RST38h	Doc: I was hoping it includes basic information on the state of N900 Meego	16:15
DocScrutinizer	~listkeys meego	16:15
infobot	Factoid search of 'meego' by key (6): meego-obsolete ;; meego-kernel-contrib ;; meego-n900 ;; haveameegomeeting ;; meego ;; smeegol.	16:15
kov	there was a new release since I believe, so ymmv I guess	16:15
dm8tbr	I hear the new SGX driver should be in soon	16:15
RST38h	aha	16:15
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RST38h	~meego-n900	16:16
infobot	[meego-n900] grab image from repo.meego.com (meego-handset-armv7l-n900) and follow http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC	16:16
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RST38h	~meego	16:16
infobot	i heard meego is http://meego.com an opensource distribution for netbooks and mobile devices	16:16
RST38h	~meego-obsolete	16:16
infobot	somebody said maemo-obsolete was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213	16:16
DocScrutinizer	~literal meego-obsolete	16:17
infobot	"meego-obsolete" is "<reply>see maemo-obsolete"	16:17
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo meego-obsolete	16:17
infobot	meego-obsolete -- created by DocScrutinizer <~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Sun Apr 25 05:57:05 2010 (278 days); it has been requested once, last by RST38h, 56s ago.	16:17
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DocScrutinizer	~forget meego-obsolete	16:17
infobot	DocScrutinizer: i forgot meego-obsolete	16:17
RST38h	magnus_ you want to read the thread at <DocScrutinizer> ~literal meego-obsolete	16:17
magnus_	thanks	16:18
magnus_	how much of the hardware in n900 is proprietary?	16:18
RST38h	magnus_ you want to read the thread at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213	16:18
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DocScrutinizer	magnus_: errr	16:18
DocScrutinizer	magnus_: define proprietary	16:18
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magnus_	closed source, no datasheets	16:19
DocScrutinizer	hmm, almost nothing	16:19
DocScrutinizer	modem for sure	16:19
DocScrutinizer	BT, WiFi	16:19
DocScrutinizer	afaik	16:19
DocScrutinizer	screen	16:19
RST38h	wifi is standard afaik	16:20
magnus_	gpu?	16:20
RST38h	imagetech openvr	16:20
MohammadAG	http://i53.tinypic.com/978zdx.jpg DocScrutinizer like this?	16:20
DocScrutinizer	magnus_: :nod: gpu as well I think	16:21
DocScrutinizer	magnus_: http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N900_Hardware	16:21
* RST38h cackles, whispering "every extra button added to this gui doubles the opportunity for a lemming to get it wrong"		16:21
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: :-D	16:21
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MohammadAG	sure that's what you want? :P	16:22
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: that's the reason why we reduce their number	16:22
MohammadAG	Because switching to QMaemo5ValueButtons will be an arse to implement	16:22
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: for first row of buttons yes	16:22
MohammadAG	(and I liked the one click radio buttons :P)	16:22
RST38h	Doc: No way to leave just one? Or make it a background daemon with no UI?	16:22
alterego	MohammadAG: ping me later and I'll sketch a UI for you :P	16:23
flux	rst38h, it doesn't have to, really. the trick is to have the buttons do nothing!	16:23
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you won't manage to find space for what I call radiobuttons, for this number of alternatives	16:23
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I will, I already added scrolling support :P	16:24
MohammadAG	scroll down for more options	16:24
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: nope, we need to select if we want vbus boost or charging. And I'm not sure auto-speed will ever pan out right	16:24
RST38h	oh	16:24
MohammadAG	like applets in Settings	16:24
MohammadAG	(like the phone settings app for example)	16:25
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: so we would need to have start button on top, and radio buttons at bottom - no good idea	16:25
MohammadAG	or radio buttons at top, and start button on bottom	16:25
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DocScrutinizer	no	16:25
magnus_	DocScrutinizer, ok, so we are not free to compile any kernel we want on the N900? we must use a certain version and then bring in a few pre-compiled kernel module binaries?	16:25
DocScrutinizer	you'd need to scroll to hit start. unbearable	16:25
MohammadAG	these are radio buttons btw http://i55.tinypic.com/28i259z.jpg	16:25
MohammadAG	well	16:26
MohammadAG	I could make "Start" always visible	16:26
MohammadAG	and the parts in between scrollable	16:26
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: that sounds really ugly and clumsy now. But it you think it can't be implemented otherwise	16:27
MohammadAG	I just think the current concept is not hildon-y	16:28
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DocScrutinizer	meh, why not? click system-menu -> connections	16:29
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RST38h	Meanwhile: A study (abstract) from Penn State shows that a lot of teachers some 60 percent are reluctant to teach evolutionary theory in the classroom either because they fear controversy or they just aren't comfortable with the material (as not every biology teacher was a science major).	16:30
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DocScrutinizer	or "new contact" "handy"	16:31
MohammadAG	I was also thinking or getting rid of the title + help button	16:31
MohammadAG	title is window title, help button can be in menu	16:31
DocScrutinizer	s/handy/mobile/	16:31
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: or "new contact" "mobile"	16:31
DocScrutinizer	?	16:31
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: agreed	16:31
RST38h	Mohammad, Doc: there is a special kind of button in Maemo5 that has a title and a subtitle. You can use it as a toggle button, if needed	16:32
RST38h	Not sure if it is going to be hildony enough to you, but many builtin apps seem to use these buttons	16:32
DocScrutinizer	the field type tags in "new contact" are exactly what I think we need here	16:33
RST38h	need a code sample?	16:33
DocScrutinizer	shrug	16:33
DocScrutinizer	it's mohammad doing the wizardry	16:33
RST38h	ok, I guess he will be able to find it	16:34
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DocScrutinizer	the whole idea is h-e-n GUI is usually a one-click thing, as setup for speed and vbus is persistent	16:34
MohammadAG	the new contact thing is QMaemo5ValueButton	16:35
RST38h	any reason for doing this little dialog in qt?	16:36
DocScrutinizer	bbl	16:36
MohammadAG	yeah, MeeGo :P	16:36
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, http://maemoide.nokia.com/fremantle/topic/org.maemo.mica.maemosdk.help.api.cpp.qt46/html/images/maemo5-listpickselector-example.png	16:37
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RST38h	Mohammad: Do you understand that Meego is not going to have QMaemo5* classes?	16:39
MohammadAG	yes	16:40
MohammadAG	obviously lol	16:40
MohammadAG	a reason I want to go with radio buttons	16:40
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DocScrutinizer	meh, open a new screen with a flock of buttons then	16:42
DocScrutinizer	in meego	16:43
DocScrutinizer	fsck meego	16:43
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kodomo_	DocScrutinizer: cool! thx for the link :) ; Is there something like a project page? I think you folks might save yourselves from a lot of annoying questions by perhaps linking the most informative posts in a sort of overview-webpage - given the turn from 'hostmode won't ever work' to 'might eventually work/will soon work' to 'working' there's a lot of clutter making it hard to figure out the state of this :)	16:44
rlinfati	hi, i install uboot-pr13 in my n900; now without a sdcard if i configure a alarm in maemo and poweroff the phone, this not poweon.... is normal? is a bug of uboot-pr13 ?	16:44
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kodomo_	DocScrutinizer: context was: h-e-n charging question ;)	16:45
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MohammadAG	dotblank, is groove broken?	17:00
dotblank	is it?	17:01
dotblank	let me	17:01
dotblank	see	17:01
MohammadAG	returns 0 results	17:01
MohammadAG	but no errors in stderr/out	17:01
dotblank	yea	17:01
dotblank	thats oodd	17:01
dotblank	looks like they changed something	17:02
MohammadAG	i'm guessing you could figure it out :P	17:03
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dotblank	I think they updated a client version string	17:05
dotblank	ugh more wireshark needed	17:05
MohammadAG	lol no API?	17:05
dotblank	its all reversed engineered	17:06
MohammadAG	wow	17:06
MohammadAG	good job I guess	17:06
MohammadAG	I thought there was an API	17:06
dotblank	meh.. its pretty ugly code	17:06
dotblank	well there is	17:06
dotblank	but its lame and requires keys and the like	17:06
dotblank	I use the internal API and it acts like the webclient	17:07
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Tsuyo	Hey, does someone also have this Menu at the right top http://tsuyo.de/files/Screenshot-20110128-161148.png ?	17:15
Tsuyo	It opens when i shake my phone a bi	17:15
Tsuyo	t*	17:15
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makulkar	how to capture ipdump from n900? any tool?	18:05
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SpeedEvil	ipdump?	18:05
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DocScrutinizer51	tcpdump??	18:15
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DocScrutinizer51	tshark?	18:15
DocScrutinizer51	wireshark?	18:16
DocScrutinizer51	wtf ipdump?	18:16
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makulkar	SpeedEvil, http logs, incoming/outgoing. Are you sayin ipdump itself a tool or something? :)	18:21
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alterego	DocScrutinizer51: tcpdump?	18:21
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makulkar	alterego, so I install tcpdump on my n900 and start it in background then try my use case?	18:21
alterego	yes	18:21
alterego	Are you using an N900 today?	18:22
makulkar	alterego, yes for a change :)	18:22
alterego	Good ;)	18:22
DocScrutinizer51	makulkar: check wireshark/tshark	18:22
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makulkar	DocScrutinizer51: ah I dint know they run on n900! will try that as well	18:23
alterego	makulkar: they do, but it's a bit fiddly, I'd use tcpdump then load the logs in wireshark on your desktop	18:23
makulkar	alterego, ah ok.. I see tcpdump running, I just redirect the output to a cap file?	18:24
alterego	makulkar: exactly, then you can view/analyse that file in wireshark on a desktop :)	18:25
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mc_teo	so, hey there	19:21
mc_teo	just wondering which board would be best for showing some code	19:21
mc_teo	like poc code	19:22
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jhb	hi *. there is a maemo-geolocation and a microb-geolocation - which one should I use?	20:21
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RST38h	moo lcuk	20:27
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RST38h	hmm...massive lcuk attack	20:32
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marnanel	oh, I meant to ask about this last night... in scratchbox, my libtool is sticking an X in front of every line of its input so nothing works. It's quite weird. I can show you pastebin if you'd like. Is this a known issue?	20:55
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wjt	marnanel: hey, i've had that. outside scratchbox. can't remember what i tracked it down to :(	20:58
marnanel	:( thanks anyway	20:58
wjt	i think it was some kind of autogoats version mismatch	20:59
marnanel	(It seems to be a regex called Xsed which is going haywire and applying in places it's not supposed to. But I don't know how I'd begin to go about fixing that without pulling autotools to pieces.)	20:59
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* marnanel asks on #gnome-hackers and is told "Yeah, I've seen that, I work around it by building all my makefiles by hand"		21:04
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marnanel	Oh lovely.	21:04
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makulkar	i'm writing a video player and while playing a video phone screensaver comes up.. how do i disable it? any API?	22:00
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Funnyface	has anyone tried that game gripper for the N900 available from here? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Nokia-N900-Game-accessory-Game-Gripper-SNES-/180542418361?pt=PDA_Accessories&hash=item2a092aadb9	22:55
Funnyface	I am thinking of getting one, not because I need it that much, but simply because it looks awesome..	22:55
ThreeM	lol	22:56
ThreeM	bookmarking	22:56
Funnyface	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9D8cedGr30 here's a video of it	22:56
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compengi	hello all, i'm impressed by nokia n900. i don't have it yet, but i'm very impressed by the phone and and it's OS. but i have one thing disturbing my head. i was told that nokia dropped support and development for maemo, this means it's only community support now? how about further development, software updates and bug fixes?	23:01
makulkar	compengi it will stil lbe there.. it will be called meego	23:02
luke-jr	compengi: you can't be impressed until you have it.	23:03
luke-jr	makulkar: MeeGo isn't supported on N900	23:03
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ShadowJK	actually it's also becomiing hard to acquire N900	23:03
luke-jr	compengi: if history says anything, N900 won't get any further development, except for some fraction of community stuff	23:03
alterego	makulkar: I replied to your question in #MeeGo	23:03
Funnyface	there are unofficial meego and android ports for it afaik, but I haven't tested them myself	23:04
luke-jr	compengi: also, since Maemo is mostly closed source, the community can't support the OS	23:04
luke-jr	Funnyface: keyword: unofficial	23:04
compengi	luke-jr, i've seen many videos from maemo.nokia.com/videos and was very impressed, actually i've been looking for video from youtube few days already	23:04
compengi	oh	23:05
Funnyface	my experience with ports like that is that not all the hardware will work properly, and that trying to get it working with your own language and keyboard layout turns out to be much harder than expected	23:05
compengi	very very sad :/	23:05
luke-jr	compengi: for example, N8x0 has basically been dead and bitrotting at fast pace since N900 was released	23:05
ShadowJK	The meego port is actually done mostly by people paid by nokia	23:05
luke-jr	however, unlike N8x0, N900 does have 90% of hardware drivers open	23:05
luke-jr	so replacing Maemo is possible	23:05
makulkar	luke-jr, I saw some thread/blog about n900 running meego?	23:06
compengi	why nokia dropped support for the os?	23:06
luke-jr	makulkar: if you like CLI :p	23:06
luke-jr	compengi: because Nokia does that.	23:06
alterego	Nothing has replaced the N900 yet	23:06
Funnyface	commercial purposes	23:06
compengi	alterego, exactly	23:06
luke-jr	compengi: they see no financial gain to continuing support	23:06
alterego	And unlike the N8x0 and 770 the N900 is powerful enough to have a _bit_ more longevity	23:07
ShadowJK	compengi, their idea is that when it meets the specs (which are secret and stupid), it's done and completed and time to work on next thing	23:07
Funnyface	I'd be happy if they'd just release an official meego ROM to be honest	23:07
compengi	luke-jr, this os could have replaced symbian probably	23:07
mikki-kun	compengi: not totally, people usually don't like it to have their OS 'open' pointing at iphone and all the other closed roms of android	23:08
luke-jr	compengi: Maemo isn't a phone OS. Symbian is.	23:08
luke-jr	compengi: they don't really compete.	23:08
luke-jr	ShadowJK: Maemo N900 never met the specs	23:08
luke-jr	ShadowJK: it can't record DVD quality video	23:08
ShadowJK	Depends which dvd mastering studio you compare with :-)	23:09
compengi	but n900 with maemo could complete iphone	23:09
alterego	mikki-kun: that's bullshit, people don't care	23:09
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luke-jr	no DVD video has dropped frames all over	23:09
luke-jr	compengi: no. again, iPhone is a phone SO	23:10
luke-jr	OS*	23:10
mikki-kun	alterego: they care if it reads iphone =p	23:10
alterego	mikki-kun: or if they do it's way to early to tell. especially considering Android (open) is open.	23:10
ShadowJK	luke-jr, yes they do, I have fixed videos like that from DVDs I've bought :-)	23:10
luke-jr	ShadowJK: …	23:10
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luke-jr	compengi: if you expect N900/Mameo to be a phone, you will be sorely disappointed when you get it	23:11
compengi	luke-jr, even with the features on maemo?	23:11
mikki-kun	alterego: well, it might be 'open', but there are still firmware which is closed source and even some android phonemakers won't show the source of the ROMs...	23:11
compengi	luke-jr, i don't	23:11
luke-jr	compengi: people who buy iPhones want a phone.	23:11
compengi	but i would like it to be a continues project	23:11
luke-jr	compengi: you realize N900 doesn't have 1 GB RAM, right?	23:12
mikki-kun	luke-jr: hey, it is more of a phone than anything else... you can have several sip-accounts and skype running while using your 3g-dataplan and receive phone calls	23:12
compengi	luke-jr, not really. people who buy iphone want a game console	23:12
compengi	i haven't seen someone using iphone for calling	23:12
luke-jr	…	23:12
compengi	web surfing and gaming	23:13
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compengi	that's all what they do	23:13
luke-jr	compengi: you realize N900 doesn't have 1 GB RAM, right?	23:13
compengi	iphone does?	23:13
ShadowJK	Usually it happens when their source has been VFR and then at some point mastered for NTSC, they tend to just drop frames for PAL sometimes, which more or less gets you half the lines from a random frame and other half of the lines from another frame..	23:13
luke-jr	compengi: no, but Nokia claims N900 does implicitly	23:13
luke-jr	compengi: N900 ships with 256 MB RAM + 768 MB swap	23:14
luke-jr	compengi: Maemo is so bloated that it requires that swap or it won't even boot.	23:14
ShadowJK	mine boots fine :)	23:14
compengi	luke-jr, who buys iphone doesn't want to know what's in it	23:15
ShadowJK	swap use is at 0 right after boot	23:15
compengi	it's all about a cool phone i guess	23:15
luke-jr	compengi: for comparison, KDE on N900 uses less memory than Maemo ;)	23:15
compengi	cool	23:15
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alterego	mikki-kun: don't run back on your argument, you were just saying people prefered closed.	23:16
alterego	Make you mind up ffs	23:16
compengi	luke-jr, i'm very disappointed that maemo development stopped	23:16
compengi	does it lack features that they didn't develop?	23:17
ShadowJK	sure, it lacks alot of crap people want	23:17
MrBawb	there are always more features that people want, the question is more: are there features you need or can get elsewhere	23:17
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luke-jr	compengi: I think MMS is a big one	23:18
compengi	i don't mean that, i've read earlier about drivers	23:18
johnsq	Hi	23:18
compengi	aren't they all developed?	23:18
ShadowJK	like 3g video calls (which do not exist outside europe), 3g media sharing, ptt and all sorts of gsm/3g protocols :P	23:18
luke-jr	compengi: there is no "developed"	23:18
luke-jr	compengi: software always requires maintenance.	23:18
luke-jr	for example, like cars.	23:19
ShadowJK	you could always improve things...	23:19
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* ShadowJK has been planning to add that automatic frequency hop feature to fmtx driver		23:19
ShadowJK	sometimes 2022 when i find free time	23:19
luke-jr	compengi: the big one is the 3D acceleration driver	23:19
luke-jr	compengi: nobody who can maintain it, cares to	23:19
compengi	luke-jr, wow	23:20
compengi	and very sad	23:20
compengi	why	23:20
nox-	fmtx auto freq hop? how is the receiver supposed to know the new freq?	23:20
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ShadowJK	nox-, rds	23:20
nox-	aah	23:20
nox-	nice idea	23:21
luke-jr	compengi: because the only ones who can maintain it are ImgTec and Nokia, and neither see a way to make money doing it	23:21
luke-jr	nor do they see a reason to let someone else	23:21
ShadowJK	and their current version doesn't work with maemo's kernel or xorg..	23:22
luke-jr	ShadowJK: what current version? O.o	23:22
ShadowJK	(and performance is probably still sucky in their current version)	23:22
* luke-jr wasn't aware ImgTec maintained any platform-neutral binaries		23:23
ShadowJK	the one in meego	23:23
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luke-jr	hmm	23:23
luke-jr	I suppose MeeGo's drivers might be platform-netural to a degree	23:23
luke-jr	so long as ImgTec doesn't abandon the older gfx chipset	23:23
ShadowJK	well	23:24
ShadowJK	there's a "board config" file apparently. probably a compile time option for the closed source driver	23:24
ShadowJK	iiuc	23:24
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alterego	luke-jr: what does imgtec have to do with ia32 architecture?	23:29
alterego	Or nVidia mobile chipsets?	23:29
luke-jr	alterego: you tell me	23:29
alterego	Where's your "driver independence" there?	23:30
luke-jr	I was talking about N900	23:30
alterego	Oh, really.	23:30
alterego	Okay	23:30
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alterego	Nokia have sgx sources doesn't directly have anything to do with imgtec tbh	23:31
alterego	More to do with TI afaik	23:31
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Robot101	alterego: the z-series atoms have an Intel GMA500 graphics core, which is actually an ImgTec PowerVR as well...	23:32
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Robot101	alterego: so, er, the same drivers could probably be made to work, and probably be better than Intel's :P	23:32
compengi	luke-jr, does it mean that they manufactured such a phone with all those features just for fun?	23:32
luke-jr	compengi: just to sell i t.	23:32
luke-jr	compengi: wait, what phone?	23:33
alterego	Robot101: if you say so, but those aren't exactly in the meego spec	23:33
alterego	MeeGo says GLES2	23:33
Robot101	yes, it's a vendor decision how to achieve that	23:33
alterego	who cares about device drivers along as they have that interface?	23:33
alterego	Exactly	23:33
luke-jr	alterego: anyone with a clue? :P	23:34
alterego	luke-jr: m'hmm ...	23:34
Robot101	so MeeGo won't have drivers, Linux might (hahaha that'll be the day), people like Nokia or Intel or TI or whoever will have to provide them and bodge them in	23:34
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Robot101	yay	23:34
alterego	Robot101: where's the bodge?	23:34
compengi	luke-jr, n900 of course	23:35
alterego	You make a device, you build drivers for the device. I think you're not clear about what MeeGo is ..	23:35
luke-jr	compengi: N900 isn't a phone.	23:35
compengi	luke-jr, smartphone?	23:35
Corsac	mobile computer	23:35
luke-jr	compengi: …no	23:35
luke-jr	Corsac++	23:35
compengi	luke-jr, even better	23:35
luke-jr	compengi: yeah, except N900's keyboard sucks to type on	23:36
compengi	so why to manufacture such thing with so much hardware in it, for later to drop it's support and never even write the rest of the drivers	23:36
GAN900	luke-jr, not so bad.	23:37
chx	compengi: you are trying to apply common sense to Nokia	23:38
chx	compengi: now come on	23:38
luke-jr	GAN900: worse than N810, which is worse than C760	23:38
alterego	compengi: what drivers are missing?	23:38
luke-jr	compengi: because it makes a profit	23:38
GAN900	luke-jr, really? I can't stand the N810 keyboard.	23:38
* alterego sighs		23:38
luke-jr	GAN900: after using N900, N810 seems like a dream	23:38
GAN900	I'm not in love with the N900 board, but it's pretty workable.	23:38
GAN900	Interesting	23:38
luke-jr	I hated N810's kb as long as it was my primary handheld	23:39
* javispedro likes the N810 kb better too.		23:39
luke-jr	but now I've seen it can be much worse XD	23:39
alterego	Weirdly, I find the N900 easier than the N900, but it seems to be 50/50 in peoples opinions	23:39
javispedro	but I'm biased as the n810's is my regional layout while n900 is us.	23:39
javispedro	*US.	23:39
alterego	javispedro: well that's just silly :P	23:39
alterego	You're basing the keypad on the layout?	23:40
javispedro	obviously not :P	23:40
ShadowJK	Best keyboard was E70 :D	23:42
chx	compengi: think of this, Nokia had it all. They produced to first smartphone which was not even called one. Their phones were coveted after. The Nokia 6210i is the best monochrome phone ever made. And so on. In the last 5-6 years they worked insanely hard to lose everything.	23:43
ShadowJK	And they had a brilliant marketing strategy to make people want their SUV-sized smartphone :)	23:44
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chx	hey it was less than half a kilo!	23:44
pupnik_	probable stolen N900 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330524354454&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:DE:1123	23:45
pupnik_	anyone in germany missing one?	23:45
ShadowJK	(they gave them for free to people that sold actual SUVs and sports cars, so then people who saw the salespeople using those phones everyone wanted them as a penis extended, ignoring the silly size.. much like real SUVs) ;P	23:45
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chx	pupnik_: my german skills are rusty but doesnt it say original packaging just the charger is not original	23:46
ShadowJK	The fans of that line of phones are still waiting for nokia to make the next communicator class device :P	23:46
chx	ShadowJK: i never knew that	23:46
ShadowJK	The first ones in that line has x86 CPUs too :P	23:47
chx	ShadowJK: 386	23:47
ShadowJK	before they switched to symbian and arm	23:47
chx	ShadowJK: and isnt the E7 the next?	23:47
pupnik_	it's a bit complicated - if anyone in the area has lost a n900 pm me	23:47
compengi	pupnik_, why would make you think it's stolen	23:47
compengi	s/why/what	23:48
pupnik_	are you the seller compengi ?	23:48
ShadowJK	What happened to C6-01 anyway	23:49
compengi	pupnik_, hehe, nope, just wondering	23:49
* ShadowJK hasn't seen it anywhere for sale		23:49
pupnik_	compengi: at least google will match 'stolen n900' to that listing now, so my work is done	23:52
compengi	good point :D	23:52
pupnik_	kind of interesting :	23:57
pupnik_	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Open-Pandora-Handheld-Linux-UMPC-PDA-BRAND-NEW-/220729188007?pt=Video_Games&hash=item33647c1ea7	23:57
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javispedro	lol	23:59
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javispedro	more expensive than retail..	23:59
pupnik_	quite	23:59
* javispedro bets those are some bots at work		23:59
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