IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-11-25

pupnik	well i'm still here	00:00
pupnik	and i'm still revealing the lies	00:00
fck	wikileaks :)	00:00
Choom	the only thing required for such campaigns to work is indifference, which is actually the self-imposed inexistence of choice	00:00
DocScrutinizer51	pupnik: reveal lie of security framework!	00:00
Choom	you got banned from a lot of places for disturbing people with stuff that they don't really care	00:01
pupnik	yes Choom	00:01
Choom	not because they feel strongly about the subject	00:01
*** onen\|openBmap has quit IRC		00:01
pupnik	i've killed animals just to get in the mood to talk about this	00:01
fck	Sadam wasn't best guy....	00:01
kerio	of course iraq had WMDs	00:02
pupnik	try squeezing the live out of someone's throat	00:02
kerio	you guys fucking sold them to the iraqis	00:02
*** villev has quit IRC		00:02
*** johnsq has quit IRC		00:02
fck	:D	00:02
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo		00:02
* MohammadAG can't sleep		00:02
pupnik	it's not fun fck	00:03
CutMeOwnThroat	pupnik, pardon?	00:03
* MohammadAG blinks, nope, it's not #politics		00:03
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo		00:03
Choom	in order to make a negative campaign to work, reality has to offer people two choices: 1 - not care and accept [the campaign]; 2 - care and work for what you believe	00:03
*** sar3th is now known as sar3th\|away		00:03
Choom	most people will choose the former over the latter simply because they don't even think much about those subjects to understand how they can affect their lives or the lives of others	00:03
*** villev has joined #maemo		00:04
DocScrutinizer51	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__5CpKlr4-4	00:04
fck	not always...	00:04
fck	also i think it was good idea to kabooom irak	00:05
Choom	obviously there are eceptions, ehnce "most"	00:05
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		00:05
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: SLEEP!	00:05
*** sergio__ has quit IRC		00:05
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC		00:07
* DocScrutinizer51 warms up the MTHELs - he knowa he'll need them soon		00:07
*** trbs has quit IRC		00:08
*** nicu has joined #maemo		00:08
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, laser vid's awesome	00:09
MohammadAG	i want one	00:09
MohammadAG	night, again	00:10
*** benh has joined #maemo		00:10
Macer	hm	00:10
Macer	why doesn't the kb work with xforwarding?	00:11
Macer	i just tried using a forwarded gentoo file manager and that didn't seem to work	00:11
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		00:12
tugrik	is this from within LXDE Macer ?	00:12
Macer	in maemo	00:12
Macer	not running easy deb	00:12
Macer	just stock maemo	00:13
*** nicu has quit IRC		00:13
Macer	i am going to try to use mc	00:13
tugrik	i think you can only use the keyboard if you're using LXDE, that's one of the reasons it's used	00:13
Macer	wow that sucks	00:13
Macer	it would be great to use the maemo stuff... i don't feel like installing easy deb just for xforwarding... kinda lame	00:14
Macer	is there a way to use fn keys in xterm?	00:16
Macer	so i can use mc?	00:16
tugrik	i think that's the case Macer, i'm only going by memory	00:16
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: yeah, don't look with the non-smoking eye into laser!	00:16
tugrik	if you want to use Fn keys.... I think you need to make your own mappings, but your request rings a bell, try searching for that on maemo.org forums	00:17
tugrik	and apologies for being the blind leading the blind here ;)	00:17
Macer	haha	00:17
Macer	well. maybe there are ctrl alternatives for mc	00:17
DocScrutinizer	my xmess gift (plus a pair of protective goggles - I'm not an idiot)	00:17
Macer	mc woud be good if i could find out how to use it in maemo	00:17
DocScrutinizer	Macer: ESC-<number>	00:19
*** davyg has quit IRC		00:19
*** villev has quit IRC		00:19
DocScrutinizer	esc-0 == F10	00:19
tugrik	thank you DocScrutinizer :)	00:19
DocScrutinizer	yw	00:20
Macer	DocScrutinizer: is there a meta for maemo xterm too?	00:20
DocScrutinizer	NOW LET ME KICK SOMEBODY!!	00:20
DocScrutinizer	I feel like	00:20
LjL	i am a troll, troll troll troll	00:20
LjL	maemo sucks, long live android	00:20
kerio	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdiz0k0Rudw	00:21
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		00:21
*** LjL was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)		00:21
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		00:21
*** LjL has joined #maemo		00:21
LjL	don't mention it	00:21
DocScrutinizer	thanks!	00:21
DocScrutinizer	needed that	00:21
DocScrutinizer	Macer: meta == esc	00:23
DocScrutinizer	except you should release ESC before hitting next key	00:23
DocScrutinizer	ESC; 0; == quit mc	00:24
kerio	wait, me too!	00:24
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		00:24
*** kerio was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)		00:24
*** kerio has joined #maemo		00:24
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		00:24
kerio	that was fun	00:24
DocScrutinizer	yeah :-)	00:24
*** roue has left #maemo		00:25
Macer	doc.... awesome!	00:25
DocScrutinizer	now my account for kicks is used up for this month	00:25
Macer	thanks so much. seriously needed that	00:25
Macer	:)	00:25
DocScrutinizer	Macer: you are welcome	00:25
DocScrutinizer	me also needed somebody to tell (guess it was raster)	00:26
*** Natunen has quit IRC		00:27
*** Natunen has joined #maemo		00:27
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		00:27
DocScrutinizer	for the record:	00:27
DocScrutinizer	meh	00:28
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		00:28
*** DocScrutinizer was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)		00:28
*** aloisiojr1 has quit IRC		00:28
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo		00:29
pupnik	("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._	00:30
pupnik	`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)	00:30
pupnik	(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'	00:30
pupnik	_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'	00:30
pupnik	(il).-'' (li).' ((!.-'	00:30
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		00:31
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +pik +q		00:31
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q pupnik!@		00:31
Choom	you set a channel key	00:32
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: -pnik *		00:32
DocScrutinizer	could someone kick me please?	00:32
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		00:33
alterego	Strange how the first thing I see from the ASCII pic is HTML element.	00:33
DocScrutinizer	any complaints?	00:33
DocScrutinizer	chan up and well?	00:33
Choom	nao you've allowed external messages	00:33
*** Choom has left #maemo		00:33
DocScrutinizer	WTF?	00:34
DocScrutinizer	teach me please!	00:34
Choom	like these	00:34
*** the_lord has quit IRC		00:34
*** Choom has joined #maemo		00:34
DocScrutinizer	?...?...?	00:35
Choom	-n	00:36
DocScrutinizer	cough	00:36
DocScrutinizer	http://toxin.jottit.com/freenode_chanserv_commands#cs03	00:37
DocScrutinizer	Choom: you need to get moe verbose to convince me	00:38
DocScrutinizer	more*	00:38
Choom	don't know if you noticed, but I left the channel and sent a message	00:38
Choom	while outside	00:38
Choom	that's what +n which you removed does, it forbids that	00:39
Choom	nothing wrong with it though	00:39
Choom	but it was set previously	00:39
Macer	how do i keep a file where it is and rename in mc?	00:39
Macer	it keeps trying to move it to the other pane's dir	00:39
DocScrutinizer	nothing showing up here	00:39
DocScrutinizer	Choom: ^^^	00:40
Macer	i just want to rename and keep it there	00:40
*** jpe has quit IRC		00:40
Choom	o	00:40
Choom	k	00:40
DocScrutinizer	Macer: rename: <tab> ./newname	00:40
DocScrutinizer	s/rename/move	00:41
Macer	ah ok	00:41
Macer	so i have to clear it all out?	00:41
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		00:41
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		00:41
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		00:41
Macer	ah well. fair enough :)	00:41
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC		00:42
DocScrutinizer	probably a mere newname works as well	00:42
DocScrutinizer	I usually do: move: pipapo.fuckme *.fmg	00:43
DocScrutinizer	mc is smart	00:44
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		00:44
Macer	what about getting the panes to only show dir names? :)	00:45
DocScrutinizer	mc even can do a "move" .JPG .jpg	00:45
Macer	i don't need the size/date stuff	00:45
Macer	just dir and file na es	00:45
Macer	names	00:45
Macer	oh.. so you can do like .jPG to whatever-.jpg as well?	00:46
DocScrutinizer	menu, left, listing_mode...	00:46
Macer	that would be pretty awesome	00:46
Macer	wow.. mc is pretty awesome	00:46
Macer	honestly never really used it before	00:47
DocScrutinizer	mc is candy	00:47
Macer	works great over ssh in a screen heh	00:47
*** hannesw has quit IRC		00:47
DocScrutinizer	mc is gold even	00:48
*** Funnyface2 has quit IRC		00:48
*** eijk has joined #maemo		00:49
DocScrutinizer	tbh I refuse to touch a box where installing mc isn't allowed	00:49
jacekowski	i still remember NC	00:49
Macer	heh	00:50
jacekowski	norton commander	00:50
Macer	i am trying to find a way to get rid of the tilde method it uses	00:50
DocScrutinizer	browse .tgz as if it were normal folders...	00:50
Macer	i need to see full names of long named dirs	00:50
DocScrutinizer	menu, left, listing_mode...	00:50
Macer	and they are like... this is a~der	00:50
Macer	doc.. tried that	00:51
DocScrutinizer	F1	00:51
DocScrutinizer	just try, and be assured it's feasible	00:51
jacekowski	ah	00:52
jacekowski	you do have iridium	00:52
Macer	yeah. i am sure. just looking for it	00:52
DocScrutinizer	read help texts	00:52
jacekowski	ah	00:52
jacekowski	not here	00:52
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: HEH??	00:52
Macer	i want to stop it from doing the ~ thing	00:52
DocScrutinizer	iridium is global	00:52
*** diegohcg has quit IRC		00:52
DocScrutinizer	but how's iridium related to midnight commander?	00:53
DocScrutinizer	Macer: edit mini status	00:54
jacekowski	not related	00:54
*** jreznik has quit IRC		00:54
jacekowski	i typed it into wrong channel	00:54
DocScrutinizer	full vs half	00:54
Macer	DocScrutinizer: i am making a user defined one	00:54
DocScrutinizer	RTFM	00:54
Macer	seems easy enough ;)	00:54
Macer	just need to get it to extend the pane out like the long listing	00:55
Macer	am trying to find out how	00:55
DocScrutinizer	that's full	00:55
Macer	yeah... i want to see it all without ~	00:55
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		00:55
DocScrutinizer	if path fits into whatever your term char/line it wil work with full	00:56
DocScrutinizer	mini!	00:56
Macer	got it :)	00:56
Macer	full type name	00:57
DocScrutinizer	see?!	00:57
Macer	heh	00:57
*** fcrochik has joined #maemo		00:57
DocScrutinizer	mc FTW	00:57
Macer	so.. awesome heh	00:57
Macer	now i can work with this :)	00:57
DocScrutinizer	fsck HFM	00:57
DocScrutinizer	mc RULEZ	00:58
*** jpinx-ee1pc has joined #maemo		00:58
DocScrutinizer	please someone beat me for the "Z"	00:58
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC		00:58
*** millenomi has quit IRC		00:59
DocScrutinizer	filebox, HFM, pffffff!	00:59
DocScrutinizer	screwit!	00:59
*** Sargun_Screen has quit IRC		00:59
*** Sargun_Screen has joined #maemo		00:59
DocScrutinizer	mc conquers	01:00
Macer	haha	01:00
Macer	yeah. it is pretty awesome... didn't know it was so good	01:00
Macer	:)	01:00
Macer	like I said... never really used it	01:00
*** b-man` has joined #maemo		01:02
*** trumee has joined #maemo		01:03
*** MadViking has quit IRC		01:05
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		01:05
*** Natunen has quit IRC		01:05
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: -q pupnik!@		01:05
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		01:05
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		01:06
pupnik	bboo	01:06
pupnik	hi crashanddie :)	01:06
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		01:07
DocScrutinizer	cya folks	01:07
Macer	really wish i could find out where mc can have moves act as simple renames	01:09
*** noodles900 has quit IRC		01:09
*** jpinx-ee1pc has quit IRC		01:09
Macer	i will figure that out later... I'm tired	01:09
Macer	the ./method kind of sucks	01:10
*** trumee is now known as trumee_afk		01:10
Macer	they should have separate options :)	01:10
Macer	i bet there is an easy way to do it	01:10
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC		01:10
*** piggz has quit IRC		01:11
*** igagis has quit IRC		01:11
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		01:13
*** mece has quit IRC		01:13
DocScrutinizer	user menu	01:13
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		01:14
Funnyface	hmm sorry my internet connection died earlier when I was talking about the 3G/3.5G thing	01:16
Funnyface	I see what you all mean about that it switches to 3.5G when transferring data, but the thing is that mine seems locked at 3G speeds at times :\	01:17
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo		01:17
Funnyface	if I use the switcher applet to switch from GSM, then back to dual, I seem to get full HSDPA speeds for a little while, of maybe 160KB/s, then suddenly it might drop back to "3G" and I only get around 45KB/s	01:18
*** ToJa92 has quit IRC		01:18
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC		01:19
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		01:19
jacekowski	Funnyface: normal	01:20
SpeedEvil1	It should roam back to 3.5G once you start using more data than 3.5G can push	01:20
*** SpeedEvil1 is now known as SpeedEvil		01:21
jacekowski	Funnyface: but there is some info that exact time and data transfered to switch to 3.5G varies between networks	01:21
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo		01:21
*** florian has quit IRC		01:21
Funnyface	hmm yeah, but I still find it very strange that when it is working all good at great speeds, it'll suddenly kick in and drop down to 3G in the middle of a large download :\	01:22
* alterego seems to remember this exact conversation a few hours ago ..		01:25
Funnyface	yeah, we were discussing it, when my connection died :p so I picked it back up	01:26
*** Bash1 has quit IRC		01:26
*** Bash1 has joined #maemo		01:27
*** Free_maN has quit IRC		01:27
*** jpwhiting has joined #maemo		01:30
*** jpwhiting has quit IRC		01:30
*** jpwhiting has joined #maemo		01:30
*** sougata has quit IRC		01:30
*** sougata has joined #maemo		01:32
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC		01:36
*** jpinx-eeepc has joined #maemo		01:39
*** colliery has joined #maemo		01:39
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo		01:39
*** j3j5 has joined #maemo		01:40
ieatlint	someone sanity check a line of code for me ... "avg_r[ i % xStep ] += row[ 0 ][ i++ ];" has gcc telling me "operation on ‘i’ may be undefined" twice for that (i and xStep are int)	01:40
ieatlint	hrm, i think i see it now... probably pissed that i'm changing the value of it in the operation	01:41
ieatlint	yep	01:41
*** comawhite has quit IRC		01:42
*** comawhite has joined #maemo		01:42
comawhite	is it true that the n900 has poor battery life?	01:43
*** zutesmog has quit IRC		01:43
*** fcrochik has quit IRC		01:44
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		01:45
SpeedEvil	comawhite: maybe.	01:45
*** jpinx-ee1pc has joined #maemo		01:45
comawhite	maybe?	01:45
SpeedEvil	comawhite: Ask some people, they say yes, some they say no.	01:45
comawhite	well i was told it	01:45
SpeedEvil	It depends how youy use it.	01:45
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC		01:45
jacekowski	ieatlint: is it defined at initialisation	01:45
comawhite	it's good for development but poor on phone usage	01:45
SpeedEvil	If you're streaming flash video over 3G with the screen bright, you may get 2-3 hours.	01:45
jacekowski	ieatlint: like int i=0;	01:45
SpeedEvil	If you're playing mp3 over earphones, 12h is easy.	01:46
SpeedEvil	(from local storage)	01:46
SpeedEvil	If it's idle, it can last most of a week connected to wifi and phone.	01:46
jacekowski	comawhite: you can drain battery in less than 3h if you use it	01:46
comawhite	i have an mp3 player for music, i have laptop for internet,	01:46
jacekowski	hell, less than 2h is probably possible	01:46
sivang	pupnik: I hope it would be useful for next generations :)	01:46
ieatlint	jacekowski, yeah, it was... it was because it goes right to left, so it went "row[ 0 ][ i ]" then "i++" then "avg_r[ i % xStep ]", with i being different values	01:46
sivang	hi all, btw, gonna fix the slides tonight, finally	01:47
ieatlint	the warning was to tell me if i didn't catch that -- it would've been an undesired result	01:47
comawhite	yeah but i was asked about my skills on maemo, so im assuming if i get this job, i might have to start doing maemo development and have to buy an n900 for it	01:47
*** jpinx-eeepc has quit IRC		01:47
*** noodles900 has quit IRC		01:48
jacekowski	ekhm	01:48
jacekowski	you applied for maemo job	01:48
jacekowski	without previous maemo experience?	01:48
comawhite	not technically	01:48
ieatlint	comawhite, my typical usage has me doing fine with the battery 90% of the time	01:48
ieatlint	jacekowski, that's not that big of a deal	01:48
pupnik	sivang: it's difficult to merge backwards looking "mistakes" with forward looking "goals"	01:48
comawhite	well i applied for desktop, but i was asked it though	01:48
pupnik	a lot of the "goals" for meego are not real tihngs	01:48
ieatlint	if you have linux dev experience, applying for a maemo dev job isn't that huge	01:48
comawhite	since they do it for all platforms	01:48
ieatlint	mostly same stuff	01:48
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		01:49
jacekowski	ieatlint: nope	01:49
jacekowski	ieatlint: on phone you only have 256M of ram	01:49
SpeedEvil	comawhite: I charge it when I go to bed. It generally works fine for me the rest of the day.	01:49
comawhite	SpeedEvil, what do you typically do on the phone?	01:49
jacekowski	and you can't just tell user to add mode	01:49
SpeedEvil	comawhite: Even though I typically listen to several hours of podcasts, and watch an hour of video.	01:50
ieatlint	jacekowski, eh... finger friendly UI is the biggest learning curve..	01:50
jacekowski	ieatlint: not wasting memory is biggest problem	01:50
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo		01:50
jacekowski	and cpu cycles	01:50
ieatlint	hasn't been an issue for me	01:50
* ieatlint shrugs		01:50
comawhite	SpeedEvil, how good is opengl es on it?	01:50
jacekowski	comawhite: it's opengl es	01:51
sivang	comawhite: you have to know your C++/C and preferably some Qt	01:51
jacekowski	comawhite: complies with all specs like any other opengl es device	01:51
comawhite	sivang i have good knowledge of Qt	01:51
sivang	pupnik: true, that is why we must work out the compliance spec or add appendixes that specify quality per vertical and/or means of ensuring overall quality and cycle breakpoints for critical caveats.	01:52
comawhite	i wonder is there will be a n1000 :P	01:53
sivang	comawhite: ah	01:53
SpeedEvil	comawhite: There will be no more maemo devices.	01:53
comawhite	sivang, yeah i applied for a Qt job :)	01:53
ieatlint	comawhite, no, it'll be the n9 and will be meego	01:53
comawhite	SpeedEvil, only meego	01:53
SpeedEvil	comawhite: It's all going to meego.	01:53
SpeedEvil	Which is a AMD/intel/nokia collaboration.	01:53
jacekowski	amd?	01:53
jacekowski	when did that happen	01:54
comawhite	ieatlint, isn't n9 only a rumour (at least that's what sais on Qt's blog	01:54
comawhite	said*	01:54
ieatlint	not really	01:54
ieatlint	it's not been announced	01:54
comawhite	yeah	01:54
ieatlint	but there have been pics of it released	01:54
ieatlint	and the model is referenced in meego code that is public	01:55
comawhite	it looks just like the n8	01:55
comawhite	except white	01:55
pupnik	sivang: i think we first have to explain to ourselves how android became popular	01:55
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: last week?	01:55
ieatlint	and has a hardware keyboard, heh	01:55
pupnik	that requires understanding of dynamic systems, chaos	01:55
pupnik	etc	01:55
* comawhite doesn't see what's great about androdi		01:55
comawhite	android*	01:55
pupnik	right	01:55
pupnik	it's not about the product	01:56
pupnik	you need a genius like pupnik	01:56
pupnik	to understand chaos and dynamic systems	01:56
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		01:58
*** travik has joined #maemo		02:00
comawhite	is there any good maemo applications?	02:00
comawhite	well examples/demos	02:00
*** colliery has quit IRC		02:01
Choom	check the wiki, there's a link to a bunch of sample code	02:01
pupnik	01:02 <pupnik> i'm so close to .. getting in trouble	02:03
pupnik	01:02 <pupnik> and i don't know what i'm doing	02:03
pupnik	01:02 <pupnik> it's wonderful	02:03
pupnik	01:03 <pupnik> nothing else is life	02:03
*** noodles900 has quit IRC		02:04
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo		02:05
*** Handyspacko has joined #maemo		02:05
Handyspacko	Hello Guys	02:06
*** zutesmog has joined #maemo		02:06
Handyspacko	is it possible, to boot with uboot with came with the titan kernel v46, boot the original kernel and the titan kernel v46????	02:07
Handyspacko	How to?	02:07
*** andre__ has quit IRC		02:09
Handyspacko	öhmm nobody?	02:09
travik	hmm, i thought v46 no longer had uboot?	02:10
Handyspacko	ok than v45?	02:10
travik	i believe it is possible, not sure how myself	02:10
*** achipa has quit IRC		02:10
Handyspacko	because i had glitches wile i do video recording but i need titan kernel for aircrack or overclocking and co	02:11
*** tKMFDM has joined #maemo		02:11
comawhite	blah all the example apps used gtk (eww)	02:11
comawhite	use*	02:11
Handyspacko	mhh any idea how to serach for? Search WORDS?	02:11
*** kthomas has joined #maemo		02:11
*** mvenplus has joined #maemo		02:12
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC		02:12
*** mveplus has quit IRC		02:12
*** pupnik has quit IRC		02:12
*** tank-man has quit IRC		02:12
*** tank-man has joined #maemo		02:12
travik	try searching uboot power kernel	02:12
travik	on tmo	02:12
*** pupnik has joined #maemo		02:12
pupnik	lol	02:13
*** KMFDM has quit IRC		02:14
travik	sounds like it might be easier with multiboot	02:14
travik	if you just want to switch between default and power kernel	02:14
Handyspacko	ok how do i do it maybe tutorial or how to?	02:15
Handyspacko	yes this is what i want to do	02:16
*** j3j5 has quit IRC		02:16
Handyspacko	didint found what i whant at google	02:16
travik	im no expert in these matters	02:16
travik	never done it myself	02:17
travik	but based on http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=877983&postcount=90	02:17
Handyspacko	can you please help me search for?	02:17
Handyspacko	ok	02:17
travik	it sounds like installing multiboot	02:17
travik	either directly or via nitdroid	02:17
travik	enables option to boot default or power kernel	02:17
*** lcuk has quit IRC		02:17
Handyspacko	ahh ok i try it	02:18
travik	ok, might want to do a bit more reading tho first	02:18
pupnik	you know what happened to the guy who wanted to launch satellites into orbit	02:19
travik	at talk.maemo.org	02:19
pupnik	with a cannon	02:19
Handyspacko	hahaaha	02:19
pupnik	bunch of snipped dick kikes murdered him	02:19
DocScrutinizer	HELL! wonder when somebody is going to ask me to take the duty to lead a maemo/meego project	02:19
DocScrutinizer	probably I'm too much a noob about such involved topic	02:19
Handyspacko	sry it is sooo much work and soo less of time sorry but this is the way you guys rock	02:19
pupnik	don't innovate Handyspacko	02:20
pupnik	you might get murdered	02:20
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		02:21
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		02:21
*** pupnik has quit IRC		02:21
*** Rarok has quit IRC		02:22
* DocScrutinizer wanders off to think about cedent infrastructure for alterego to sell his app		02:22
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC		02:22
*** travik has left #maemo		02:22
DocScrutinizer	decent even	02:22
*** zap has quit IRC		02:23
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo		02:24
*** Vanadis has quit IRC		02:24
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC		02:24
*** zap has joined #maemo		02:25
*** Rarok has joined #maemo		02:25
*** mikhas has quit IRC		02:26
*** Rarok has quit IRC		02:26
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		02:27
*** Handyspacko has quit IRC		02:29
*** pupnik has joined #maemo		02:30
pupnik	444 nicks	02:35
DocScrutinizer	yep	02:35
DocScrutinizer	lemme cure that	02:36
pupnik	how many years ... YEARS	02:36
*** DocScrutinizer-8 has joined #maemo		02:36
*** DocScrutinizer-8 has joined #maemo		02:36
pupnik	has it been since we heard from Milhouse	02:36
pupnik	not to mention these hundreds of finns who just lurk and lurk and lurk	02:37
pupnik	what are they	02:37
pupnik	fucking ants?	02:37
DocScrutinizer	ants don't fuck - usually	02:38
pupnik	a fucking deserverd asskicking	02:38
pupnik	well , no - it was chaotic	02:38
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		02:39
pupnik	you guys up for some great music from minneapolis?	02:39
pupnik	1991-1994?	02:39
pupnik	super advanced	02:39
*** BabelO has quit IRC		02:39
*** LjL has quit IRC		02:44
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		02:46
*** lcuk has quit IRC		02:46
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		02:46
*** radic_ has quit IRC		02:47
*** niq has quit IRC		02:47
*** Bash1 has quit IRC		02:47
*** zap has quit IRC		02:47
*** Rhoruns has joined #maemo		02:48
*** FireFly has quit IRC		02:49
*** doubleukay has quit IRC		02:53
*** rblank has quit IRC		02:59
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC		03:00
*** tKMFDM has quit IRC		03:01
*** radic has joined #maemo		03:01
*** pcacjr has joined #maemo		03:01
*** pcacjr has joined #maemo		03:01
*** SpeedEvil1 has quit IRC		03:10
*** eijk has quit IRC		03:12
*** edisson has quit IRC		03:13
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		03:14
*** norayr has quit IRC		03:22
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo		03:30
*** noodles900 has quit IRC		03:33
pupnik	http://rapidshare.com/files/432959203/pupnik-enjoy.mp3	03:38
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo		03:43
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo		03:45
blackthorne	hi	03:45
blackthorne	just got my n900	03:45
blackthorne	my geek greeting, right after loading irssi goes to you	03:46
SpeedEvil	Hi!	03:48
SpeedEvil	xchat works too, and I prefer it personally.	03:48
blackthorne	wow. xchat...	03:49
blackthorne	trying to unzip a file...	03:50
SpeedEvil	unzip is in tools repo I think.	03:50
SpeedEvil	http://www.alamopc.org/pcalamode/reviews/archive1/rev306.html	03:51
SpeedEvil	err	03:51
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/	03:51
SpeedEvil	though there is also an adon for the file manager	03:51
blackthorne	i like terminals but this time i,m looking for some integration	03:54
*** pupnik is now known as hi_my_nick_is_2x		03:58
*** hi_my_nick_is_2x is now known as hi		03:59
*** hi is now known as bye		03:59
*** bye is now known as fckig_idiot		03:59
*** fckig_idiot is now known as e_ipi_is_an_ass		04:00
*** mikki-kun has quit IRC		04:01
*** e_ipi_is_an_ass is now known as pupnik		04:02
*** pupnik is now known as hiu_^u^bo18830-b		04:03
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo		04:05
*** blackthorne has quit IRC		04:08
*** hiu_^u^bo18830-b is now known as pupnik		04:09
*** pupnik has quit IRC		04:09
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		04:10
*** hardaker has quit IRC		04:10
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		04:11
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		04:14
*** pupnik has joined #maemo		04:19
*** felipe` has quit IRC		04:20
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		04:26
*** jophish has quit IRC		04:26
*** Diod has quit IRC		04:26
*** muelli has quit IRC		04:28
*** BCMM has quit IRC		04:34
*** Nirtal has quit IRC		04:35
*** erstazi has quit IRC		04:38
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		04:38
*** chx is now known as chx_gym		04:39
*** erstazi has joined #maemo		04:42
*** Jay_BEE has joined #maemo		04:44
Jay_BEE	howdy	04:45
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		04:45
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		04:46
*** sougata has quit IRC		04:52
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		04:59
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo		04:59
*** gorio_BRASIL has joined #maemo		05:01
*** hardaker has quit IRC		05:07
pupnik	hey murderers :)	05:08
*** tilppis_ has quit IRC		05:09
*** Jucato has quit IRC		05:11
*** w00t_ has quit IRC		05:13
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo		05:17
*** burchr has joined #maemo		05:18
*** Jucato has joined #maemo		05:19
*** burchr has quit IRC		05:19
*** burchr has joined #maemo		05:19
*** gorio_BRASIL has quit IRC		05:19
*** felipe` has joined #maemo		05:28
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:30
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:32
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:32
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:32
*** Dante_J has joined #maemo		05:36
* Dante_J Greets the room		05:37
*** hcm has joined #maemo		05:37
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		05:39
erstazi	hello Dante_J	05:41
*** hcm_ has quit IRC		05:41
Dante_J	what's new erstazi?	05:41
erstazi	Dante_J: just relaxing,… thinking of the next thing I can destroy (:	05:42
Dante_J	heh	05:42
*** noodles900 has quit IRC		05:43
Dante_J	So this is a kind of broad question. Feel free those who wish to chime in to do so.	05:43
erstazi	Dante_J: shoot	05:43
Dante_J	How would you rate the state of the Maemo /(Meego) community at the moment. I ask that as a long time proud N800 & now N900 owner. I have my opinions, but I want to hear from others.	05:44
*** Dregz has joined #maemo		05:46
erstazi	Dante_J: been a maemo user since 770. I miss those days. MeeGo in my opinion has potential but I wished for the debian base instead of opensuse (rpm-based). The UI looks refreshing in MeeGo though. Also MeeGo has two organizations supporting it verses just one organization with maemo	05:47
* Dante_J knods		05:48
Dante_J	but what about the community?	05:48
erstazi	Dante_J: what is your opinion?	05:48
*** Gorroth has quit IRC		05:49
Dante_J	For me I've used Debian and Fedora based distros concurrently for years, so switching from a deb back end to rpm is not a big deal at all for me. It's just a way to deliver the code - and that code is written by people who are often enough part of or influenced by the community. Hence my question.	05:50
erstazi	right	05:50
erstazi	Dante_J: I think other people are sleeping (:	05:50
erstazi	or too shy to answer	05:50
erstazi	or drunk	05:50
*** Dregs has quit IRC		05:50
Dante_J	I'm mildly familiar with the Fedora community and the Ubuntu community, and I read through maemo talk every few days, but that's not a great guide of community spirit or health.	05:51
*** Natunen has joined #maemo		05:54
erstazi	right, I use CentOS and Debian, so I don't mind specifically,… I just wonder how much work was done with maemo is being transitioned into MeeGo?	05:55
Dante_J	erstazi: I'd love to know the answer to that question too.	05:58
*** gn00b has quit IRC		05:59
*** dockane has joined #maemo		06:01
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		06:04
*** dockane_ has quit IRC		06:04
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC		06:05
*** Gorroth has joined #maemo		06:07
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo		06:07
Dante_J	Would it be fair to say that most people in the channel are in Europe / US time zones?	06:08
*** sougata has joined #maemo		06:14
radic	irgendwie pennt hier alles!	06:15
*** kkb110 has quit IRC		06:22
*** Jay_BEE has quit IRC		06:23
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo		06:25
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC		06:28
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo		06:29
*** gn00b has joined #maemo		06:39
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		06:39
*** celesteh has quit IRC		06:41
*** kkb110 has quit IRC		06:51
*** MadViking has quit IRC		06:57
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		06:57
*** Jay_BEE has joined #maemo		07:00
Jay_BEE	re	07:00
*** midas_ has quit IRC		07:02
*** midas_ has joined #maemo		07:02
*** `0660 has joined #maemo		07:12
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		07:27
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC		07:28
*** boogeyman has quit IRC		07:33
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC		07:33
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo		07:33
*** DocScrutinizer-8 has quit IRC		07:33
*** bigbrovar has joined #maemo		07:34
*** pcacjr has quit IRC		07:34
*** Natunen has quit IRC		07:36
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		07:39
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo		07:40
*** chx_gym is now known as chx		07:43
*** norayr has joined #maemo		07:45
*** DocScrutinizer-8 has joined #maemo		07:46
*** DocScrutinizer-8 has joined #maemo		07:46
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo		07:50
*** ni1s has quit IRC		07:51
*** ni1s has joined #maemo		07:53
*** fab has joined #maemo		07:54
*** ni1s has quit IRC		07:59
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo		08:08
*** ni1s has joined #maemo		08:09
*** plr_ has quit IRC		08:11
*** plr_ has joined #maemo		08:12
*** Kegetys has quit IRC		08:12
*** Kegetys has joined #maemo		08:12
*** Natunen has joined #maemo		08:12
*** quanttrom has quit IRC		08:13
*** lolloo has quit IRC		08:18
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		08:18
*** sougata has quit IRC		08:20
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC		08:25
*** sougata has joined #maemo		08:25
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo		08:26
*** ni1s has quit IRC		08:27
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		08:30
*** CableTwitch has joined #maemo		08:37
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC		08:37
CableTwitch	Good (morning/afternoon/evening).	08:37
Dante_J	hi CableTwitch	08:38
CableTwitch	Hey Dante	08:39
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo		08:39
*** [DrkGUNMAN-N900] has quit IRC		08:39
Dante_J	CableTwitch: what do you know?	08:39
CableTwitch	Not a lot, usually.	08:40
CableTwitch	I know how to break my N900, mostly.	08:40
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		08:40
Dante_J	yea, that applies to most of us I suspect	08:41
CableTwitch	I'm no coder. I'm merely a user that comes here to learn how to unbreak it, and occasionally discover that the HW has gone kaput.	08:42
*** ni1s has joined #maemo		08:42
CableTwitch	I'll be on my 3rd unit when the replacement comes back XD	08:42
Dante_J	golly!	08:42
Dante_J	usb connector issues?	08:42
CableTwitch	That was the first one, yes.	08:43
CableTwitch	I dropped it on the connector while the USB cable was plugged in.	08:43
*** FireFly has joined #maemo		08:44
*** FireFly has joined #maemo		08:44
Dante_J	ouch	08:44
CableTwitch	the irony was that I later learned I could have sorted that issue out using the local hackspace hot-air rework station. Didnt rip the connector off the mobo, only caused the connector itself to come apart.	08:44
CableTwitch	So I lost a lot of things I couldnt back up, because I had no way of chaging it.	08:44
CableTwitch	Charging even.	08:44
Dante_J	ahh	08:44
Dante_J	could you ssh to it and tar everything important up and off?	08:45
Dante_J	and charge batteries externally?	08:45
CableTwitch	The 2nd phone I just sent back, as it killed itself eventually. No amount of flashing both the rootfs or the eMMC would fix it, and it displayed some rather odd behaviour that we decided was fritzed hardware.	08:45
Dante_J	hmmm, doesn't sound good.	08:46
CableTwitch	As I said, I'm merely a user of the phone. I dont do linux, or anything technical in the software front. SSH is something I've heard others talk about, but never used myself. I dont even run linux as a desktop.	08:46
CableTwitch	I've learned a little through messing with the phone itself, but I'm nowhere near technical enough with the OS to do anything beyond installing apps. I'm a self-confessed hardware bod, I dont do software :O)	08:47
*** mhlavink_afk has quit IRC		08:49
CableTwitch	Eh, besides, I couldnt get the damn thing to connect as a USB drive, and I was very lucky to get it to connect in upload mode in order to flash it.	08:51
CableTwitch	Plug the USB cable in, and the device powered up and tried to boot. Same with the power lead.	08:51
*** Rhoruns has quit IRC		08:51
*** benh has quit IRC		08:51
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		08:52
CableTwitch	Something went a bit mental in the charging/power circuitry, is my guess. Possible overheating, or a fried control IC maybe. Either way, no power/staus LED signals, and undesirable operation meant it was going back anyhow.	08:52
*** tekojo has quit IRC		08:57
*** trumee_afk is now known as trumee		08:57
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC		09:00
*** mhlavink_afk has joined #maemo		09:02
*** trumee is now known as trumee_afk		09:03
*** Ian-- has quit IRC		09:04
*** sperle has joined #maemo		09:04
*** mece has joined #maemo		09:13
*** RobbieThe1st has joined #maemo		09:14
*** hardaker has quit IRC		09:14
Dante_J	CableTwitch: Sorry for my lag, distracted by work. Sounds like you've experiences a few failures.	09:14
Dante_J	CableTwitch: apart from that, what do you think of the N900?	09:15
*** kkb110 has joined #maemo		09:16
Dante_J	CableTwitch: Sorry, have to go. see you again	09:17
*** Dante_J has quit IRC		09:17
*** ag0ny has joined #maemo		09:19
*** larsivi has joined #maemo		09:19
*** WakiMiko has quit IRC		09:20
CableTwitch	Doh, wasnt paying attention XD	09:21
*** Ian-- has joined #maemo		09:23
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC		09:24
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo		09:24
*** WakiMiko has joined #maemo		09:25
*** trumee_afk is now known as trumee		09:26
*** `0660 has quit IRC		09:27
*** trumee is now known as trumee_afk		09:27
*** ab[out] is now known as ab		09:30
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo		09:31
*** sougata has quit IRC		09:32
*** eMHa has quit IRC		09:33
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo		09:34
ni1s	how do I remove a package that's stuck in a "very bad inconsistent state"?	09:34
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		09:35
*** ppenz has joined #maemo		09:36
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC		09:37
*** tekonivel has quit IRC		09:37
*** akeripper_ has quit IRC		09:38
*** gomiam has joined #maemo		09:40
*** gomiam has quit IRC		09:41
*** millenomi has joined #maemo		09:41
RobbieThe1st	ni1s: I'd do an "apt-get install X --reinstall", then uninstall it	09:41
RobbieThe1st	It -might- work	09:41
* CableTwitch gets the Pyramid and Black Lamb		09:44
CableTwitch	I saved them, they werent required earlier.	09:44
*** harbaum has joined #maemo		09:45
*** gomiam has joined #maemo		09:46
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		09:48
*** tekonivel has joined #maemo		09:48
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC		09:48
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo		09:48
*** murrayc has joined #maemo		09:49
*** budfive has joined #maemo		09:49
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		09:50
*** budfive has left #maemo		09:50
*** avs has joined #maemo		09:52
*** wallblom has joined #maemo		09:52
*** dneary has joined #maemo		09:53
*** Tscheesy has quit IRC		09:54
*** kwek has joined #maemo		09:54
*** SwedeMike has quit IRC		09:57
*** fscker has quit IRC		09:57
*** bergie has joined #maemo		10:00
*** fscker has joined #maemo		10:03
*** villev has joined #maemo		10:03
*** hrw\|gone is now known as hrw		10:04
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		10:07
*** Wikier has joined #maemo		10:08
*** ptlo has joined #maemo		10:09
*** eijk has joined #maemo		10:10
*** jpe has joined #maemo		10:10
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		10:13
*** SwedeMike has joined #maemo		10:15
*** X-Fade has joined #maemo		10:16
*** nicu has joined #maemo		10:16
*** peb_ has joined #maemo		10:16
*** Termana has joined #maemo		10:17
Termana	good morning	10:17
*** tekojo has quit IRC		10:17
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		10:18
mece	\o	10:18
peb_	Termana, good morning	10:18
*** amigadave has joined #maemo		10:19
*** lbt is now known as lbt_away		10:22
*** tekojo_ has joined #maemo		10:23
*** tekojo has quit IRC		10:23
*** TheNewAndy has joined #maemo		10:24
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		10:24
*** aep has quit IRC		10:27
*** comawhite has quit IRC		10:28
*** roadi has quit IRC		10:28
*** roadi has joined #maemo		10:28
*** aep has joined #maemo		10:29
*** zap has joined #maemo		10:29
*** FireFly has quit IRC		10:30
*** comawhite has joined #maemo		10:30
*** benh has joined #maemo		10:30
*** schend has joined #maemo		10:32
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		10:33
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		10:33
*** pupnik has quit IRC		10:35
*** jrocha has joined #maemo		10:35
*** andrenarchy has joined #maemo		10:38
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		10:40
*** tekojo_ is now known as tekojo		10:43
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		10:43
*** millenomi has quit IRC		10:43
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		10:43
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		10:47
*** maybeHere has joined #maemo		10:48
peb_	Does anyone of you know of a SMS to Speech App on the N900? Lifehacker just had a post about such an app on the Android ...	10:48
*** mikki-kun has joined #maemo		10:48
*** ayanes has joined #maemo		10:48
*** ayanes has quit IRC		10:48
*** ayanes has joined #maemo		10:48
*** maybeArgh has quit IRC		10:48
*** mvenplus has quit IRC		10:48
ieatlint	i don't know of one, but as espeak is on the n900 (a voice synth), it probably wouldn't be difficult to write one	10:49
*** mvenplus has joined #maemo		10:49
*** jophish has joined #maemo		10:49
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo		10:49
*** muelli has joined #maemo		10:50
*** noodles900 has quit IRC		10:50
peb_	ieatlint, I think so, too. All the stuff should be there -- but how do I access (incoming) SMS on the N900? haven't found yet (and haven't searched deeply ... too)	10:50
ieatlint	uh, i think qtmobility can do it, and there are c libs... let me see if i can dig up a link	10:51
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo		10:52
peb_	ieatlint, that would be cool!	10:52
*** dneary has quit IRC		10:52
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		10:53
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo		10:53
*** polymar has joined #maemo		10:53
*** jophish_ has joined #maemo		10:53
*** jophish has quit IRC		10:54
ieatlint	hmm, well i know sms runs on telepathy, so if you were listening for new sms you might be sitting on that	10:54
ieatlint	dunno if telepathy is actually used to access sms from an archive	10:54
*** Venemo_N900 has joined #maemo		10:55
Venemo_N900	hey guys	10:55
toggles	Ciao bella	10:55
peb_	Hey Venemo_N900	10:57
*** johnx has joined #maemo		10:57
Venemo_N900	~seen khertan_	10:57
infobot	khertan_ is currently on #maemo (1d 1h 48m 5s) #meego (1d 1h 48m 5s), last said: 'i must go on ... going to office. Bye'.	10:57
*** Jay_BEE has quit IRC		10:57
ieatlint	peb_, don't have an easy link for you on a c interface... but the telepathy apis might be the place to look	10:57
Venemo_N900	c interface for what?	10:58
peb_	ieatlint, thanks for the help. I'll try & dig into it. Need such an app for me while driving ...	10:58
ieatlint	reading sms	10:58
peb_	Venemo_N900: we were talking about an "SMS to Speech" app ..	10:58
ieatlint	perhaps different if you want to watch for incoming sms instead of looking at an archive	10:59
peb_	ieatlint, mostly incoming would be relevant :-) (don't look on the N900 while driving ...)	10:59
*** MadViking has quit IRC		10:59
Venemo_N900	peb_: hm... well I think there is one, but I don't know any details	11:00
*** MadViking has joined #maemo		11:00
*** ZZzzZzzz_ has joined #maemo		11:00
Venemo_N900	peb_: for text-to-speech there is espeak which has already been ported to Maemo	11:00
alterego	good moaning	11:00
peb_	Venemo_N900: clear, but how do I get espeak to read the (incoming) SMS?	11:01
alterego	pick it up from dbus and pipe it to espeak	11:01
lcuk	peb_, you do the same as other people with a desire for an app	11:01
peb_	lcuk, yes, write it myself :-)	11:02
lcuk	you investigate how, learn and test and make an app :P	11:02
lcuk	then get the glory :)	11:02
lcuk	the app itself sounds cool :) i keep pondering how to do it for irc	11:02
Venemo_N900	peb_: well you "only" need a way to read the SMSes fromsomewhere, then forward it to espeak :)	11:02
khertan_	Venemo_N900, Hi !	11:02
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo		11:02
lcuk	peb_, there was a time we didn't have MMS on the N900 :)	11:02
khertan_	Morning all !	11:02
lcuk	until someone sat down and made it	11:03
Venemo_N900	khertan_: helloooo! :)	11:03
*** psycho_oreos has joined #maemo		11:03
Venemo_N900	khertan_: sorry for bothering you, but I have a serious issue with KhtEditor	11:03
*** ZZzzZzzz1 has quit IRC		11:04
peb_	lcuk, I'm aware of that .... But I think alterego pointed me in the right direction (reading the SMS from dbus). I didn't know where to get that SMS from ...	11:04
*** Nirtal has joined #maemo		11:04
khertan_	Venemo_N900, which one ?	11:04
lcuk	peb_, a DBUS message is raised when the message comes in	11:05
Venemo_N900	khertan_: particularly with its feature that runs c/c++ apps	11:05
lcuk	it generally comes from your mum or your friends or at a pinch fro ma test message from yourself	11:05
khertan_	Venemo_N900, hum ... you mean with the execute toolbar button ?	11:06
Venemo_N900	khertan_: yes	11:06
khertan_	Venemo_N900, as i know it s working for python, ruby and sh ...	11:07
Venemo_N900	khertan_: when trying to run a c program it says, "/tmp/khteditor.tmp: line 3: c: not found"	11:07
khertan_	but for c/c++ it ll not do right thing yet	11:07
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC		11:07
khertan_	i think i should add a execute command field in the preference for such language	11:07
khertan_	as it s require a compile before	11:08
Venemo_N900	khertan_: yeah	11:08
khertan_	so ... need to know what args to send to the compiler (and which compiler to use)	11:08
Venemo_N900	khertan_: I have another concern about it	11:08
khertan_	yep ?	11:08
Venemo_N900	khertan_: the app only offers to open files from MyDocs	11:08
Venemo_N900	khertan_: which is mounted with noexec	11:09
khertan_	yep due to shitty fracked QFileDialog	11:09
khertan_	(doesn't show extension too)	11:09
Venemo_N900	khertan_: so, KhtEditor should copy the file to some secret place in /home/user and build it there	11:10
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:10
khertan_	Venemo_N900, secret place will be /tmp :)	11:10
khertan_	morning Jaffa	11:10
Venemo_N900	khertan_: okay with me	11:10
Venemo_N900	khertan_: if it is written with Qt, I would be more than welcome to contribute. is it?	11:11
khertan_	yep you are welcome. Git repository is available at http://gitorious.org/khteditor	11:11
khertan_	:)	11:11
alterego	Anyone know off hand how to detect whether your app has been backgrounded?	11:12
Venemo_N900	khertan_: ok, I'll look at it	11:12
Venemo_N900	khertan_: what I meant is I would be more than happy to contribute	11:12
alterego	Logged 1hr of telemetry this morning, whilst listening to music, battery indicator still reads full.	11:13
Venemo_N900	alterego: yeah, there is some property of QWidget that says that	11:13
alterego	So I'm pretty happy about that :)	11:13
khertan_	Venemo_N900, and i ll be happy that someone else contribute to it.	11:13
alterego	Venemo_N900: okay, thanks for the pointer.	11:13
Venemo_N900	alterego: alternatively, when your main widget becomes out of focus	11:13
Gh0sty	how do i form alt key?	11:13
alterego	Hrm, yeah, I'll do some testing.	11:13
Gh0sty	channel switching in irssi without alt is somewhat fancy	11:14
Venemo_N900	khertan_: oh-oh... I'm not very comfortable with Python yet	11:14
*** frade has joined #maemo		11:15
Venemo_N900	Gh0sty: you could remap some key to become an alt key	11:15
khertan_	Venemo_N900, hum ... python isn't the hard part :) Most of things are just qt call	11:15
Venemo_N900	Gh0sty: for example, Fn+something=alt	11:15
Gh0sty	could i get alt on my xterminal onscreen bar?	11:15
Venemo_N900	khertan_: yeah, I made a PyQt app once	11:15
Venemo_N900	Gh0sty: there is no way I know of to do that	11:15
Gh0sty	hm damn :(	11:16
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC		11:16
*** muelli has quit IRC		11:16
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		11:18
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo		11:18
*** florian_kc is now known as florian		11:19
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC		11:21
Venemo_N900	khertan_: do you code KhtEditor with KhtEditor? :P	11:22
khertan_	yes :)	11:23
Venemo_N900	:)	11:23
Gorroth	unf! repackaged nokia's stupid flasher thing that supposedly only works on i386 (according to their control file) to work on amd64	11:24
Gorroth	well, the binary always worked, but i had to cut open the package, add the extra architecture, and repackage it	11:24
Venemo_N900	Gorroth: nice	11:24
Gorroth	:)	11:24
Gorroth	was a bit annoying that nokia didn't just put "i386, amd64" in the .deb	11:24
*** shadeofgrey has joined #maemo		11:24
Venemo_N900	hehe	11:25
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		11:27
*** shadeofgrey has left #maemo		11:27
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		11:31
*** zs_ has joined #maemo		11:33
*** calvaris has quit IRC		11:33
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC		11:33
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		11:34
*** Venemo_N900 has quit IRC		11:37
*** jophish_ has quit IRC		11:37
*** Venemo_N900 has joined #maemo		11:38
*** zs_ has quit IRC		11:38
crashanddie	haha	11:39
crashanddie	I love my coworkers. In a doc: "This alert shouldn’t happen."	11:39
crashanddie	If it's not supposed to happen, why document it for a _customer documentation_?	11:40
*** chx is now known as chx_sleep		11:40
*** arno0ob has joined #maemo		11:41
khertan_	crashanddie, you know one day one of my coworker do a if i<0: alert("blabla") elif i>=0: alert("error") else alert("What the fuck")	11:42
*** amigadave has quit IRC		11:42
khertan_	Wtf was displayed on many case	11:42
crashanddie	khertan_, when I worked for the Australian Gov Driving Licence project, there was an error message we always dreaded	11:42
crashanddie	it said "Something bad happened"	11:42
crashanddie	And that was it	11:43
crashanddie	The system would just die, stop, nearly instantly. No logs, no traces, nothing.	11:43
* lcuk cannot believe #meego are discussing boobies		11:43
khertan_	as the language used never except on divide by 0 but else generate an particular integer 'infinite' which isn't greater than 0	11:43
jacekowski	no core dumps?	11:43
crashanddie	jacekowski, java	11:43
khertan_	but not lesser :	11:43
khertan_	:)	11:43
jacekowski	then you should have some logs	11:43
jacekowski	exceptions	11:43
jacekowski	stack traces	11:43
jacekowski	gc logs	11:43
khertan_	jacekowski, depends on the language you use	11:44
lcuk	crashanddie, morning, how are you?	11:44
*** zap has quit IRC		11:44
jacekowski	khertan_: he said java	11:44
crashanddie	lcuk, good, got a unofficial promotion as Product Manager yesterday	11:44
lcuk	\o/	11:44
lcuk	sweet	11:44
lcuk	does it involve unofficial payrise tho?	11:44
jacekowski	what does product manager do?	11:45
crashanddie	lcuk, currently negotiating that	11:45
crashanddie	jacekowski, roadmaps, documentation management, customer expectation management, requirements gathering, and in my case, C++ development too.	11:45
lcuk	jacekowski, don't be silly	11:45
lcuk	he manages products obviously	11:45
*** Termana has quit IRC		11:45
khertan_	crashanddie, unofficial like you get problems, not greetings, not wage increase :)	11:46
crashanddie	jacekowski, well, no. Don't forget this was a J2EE app that would run inside a WebSphere cluster, and if your code manages to bring down the app server, you're pretty much screwed -- a usual startup of the system would generate about 120MB of logs, and if when it crashes you just get a websphere segfault, you are _not_ a happy camper.	11:46
khertan_	s/wage increase/payrise :)	11:47
crashanddie	khertan_, nha, unofficially because we're waiting a couple of weeks before announcing it at the christmas party	11:47
* khertan_ learn a new english word today		11:47
khertan_	crashanddie, so not so bad :)	11:47
khertan_	gratz	11:47
crashanddie	ta	11:48
crashanddie	lcuk, what bout you guv, how are things going in Gunchester?	11:48
MohammadAG	morning	11:50
lcuk	things are good I think	11:50
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: morning! :)	11:51
MohammadAG	nice school day, 4 chemistry lessons, teacher wasn't at school, so I'm done 3-ish hours early	11:51
crashanddie	morning MohammadAG	11:51
MohammadAG	well, 4-ish	11:51
Venemo_N900	:)	11:51
*** amigadave has joined #maemo		11:52
MohammadAG	need to wake up my PC remotely	11:52
*** ni1s has quit IRC		11:53
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: could we get this into Maemo? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2637_video&num=2	11:54
*** TeringTuby has joined #maemo		11:55
alterego	wake on lan, and DMZ	11:56
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, said it won't do anything on maemo iirc	11:56
MohammadAG	alterego, got both	11:56
alterego	It'd do more harm than good imo	11:59
MohammadAG	why?	11:59
alterego	Because our kernel is tuned to work with what we have. Everything is tested to be "stable" with what we have.	11:59
*** SWFu has joined #maemo		11:59
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: the patch won't do anything why?	11:59
alterego	There's no way to know how those kinds of performance changes would effect the operation of the device.	12:00
MohammadAG	oh, that	12:00
Venemo_N900	well according to stskeeps it did effect the N900	12:00
MohammadAG	i thought you were talking about dmz	12:00
Gorroth	except by trying it out	12:00
MohammadAG	even on 2.6.28?	12:00
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: what?	12:01
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		12:02
Venemo_N900	MohammadAG: that I dunno	12:02
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo		12:03
Venemo_N900	perhaps we could simply ask the author of the power kernel to include this	12:03
toggles	Venemo_N900: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/11/alternative-to-200-lines-kernel-patch.html	12:03
Venemo_N900	toggles: does it work on Maemo?	12:06
*** kthomas has quit IRC		12:06
toggles	no idea, but you are welcome to try and report your results	12:06
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		12:07
jacekowski	that patch is useless	12:07
jacekowski	unless you are running at 100% all the time	12:07
*** kov has quit IRC		12:08
nidO	itll do nothing, its totally irrelevant to the use-case of the n900	12:08
jacekowski	and n900 is slow because it's i/o bound inmost cases	12:08
jacekowski	rather than cpu bound	12:08
lcuk	swappolube!	12:08
Venemo_N900	toggles: seems that there is no ~/.bashrc in Maemo	12:08
nidO	the clue is in the name	12:09
alterego	We use busybox, try .profile	12:09
RST38h	lcuk: swappolube mostly looks like snake oil to me	12:10
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		12:10
RST38h	lcuk: did not help improve thigns either	12:10
*** lbt has joined #maemo		12:11
*** lbt has joined #maemo		12:11
lcuk	RST38h, depends how you look at it :) perception of improvement is improvement even if it may not be measurable	12:11
chem\|st	RST38h: Viagrino for the boner in between...	12:11
Venemo_N900	well	12:11
chem\|st	RST38h: have you seen that optimizingN900 script setup	12:12
Venemo_N900	this patch could solve the issue when you do something heavy with the N900 and then receive a call and it becomes totally unresponsive	12:12
*** achipa has joined #maemo		12:13
*** achipa has joined #maemo		12:13
chem\|st	RST38h: people trying to make there device stable over longterm use by running it cron'ed, out of curiousity I ran it... straight to reboot	12:13
*** kov has joined #maemo		12:14
chem\|st	s/there/their/	12:14
infobot	chem\|st meant: RST38h: people trying to make their device stable over longterm use by running it cron'ed, out of curiousity I ran it... straight to reboot	12:14
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		12:14
Venemo_N900	what is cron?	12:14
chem\|st	Venemo_N900: repeating events handler	12:15
Venemo_N900	chem\|st: ah.	12:15
chem\|st	Venemo_N900: cron is a service you tell to run ever x minutes y hours "this" script	12:15
Venemo_N900	chem\|st: and what script is it that you run	12:16
chem\|st	Venemo_N900: you mean that optimizingN900 thing	12:16
Venemo_N900	chem\|st: never tried	12:16
chem\|st	Venemo_N900: I tried to convince them in the thread about it to stop doing BS	12:17
Venemo_N900	hehe	12:17
chem\|st	it is basically a "killall *" script	12:17
Venemo_N900	lol	12:17
lcuk	poor *	12:17
Venemo_N900	anyway, I must leave now. will come back a bit later	12:17
Venemo_N900	bye guys :)	12:17
*** Venemo_N900 has quit IRC		12:17
lcuk	\o	12:17
*** jpinx-ee1pc has quit IRC		12:17
chem\|st	and I tried the version the author claimed "is not anymore rebooting the device"	12:17
soltys	omg	12:18
chem\|st	I said I doubt that it will do any good as they killed like any job the watchdog is after	12:18
*** einsteinchen has joined #maemo		12:19
Gorroth	downloadin' the android sdk	12:19
chem\|st	"by that command you will restart the service"... I said "no you will kill the daemon and watchdog will start it, if you do that twice in 5 seconds it will do a security reboot"	12:19
chem\|st	guess who was right...	12:20
Gorroth	restart	12:21
chem\|st	it is actualy 30 seconds and 60 seconds, depends on service (afair)	12:21
chem\|st	Gorroth: GL	12:21
Gorroth	good laugh?	12:21
chem\|st	luck	12:21
Gorroth	oh, for what?	12:21
chem\|st	Gorroth: or did you mean that it restarted the service?	12:22
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo		12:22
Gorroth	i meant it restarted the service	12:22
Gorroth	i was just making it up	12:22
chem\|st	my device rebooted...	12:22
Gorroth	oh	12:22
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		12:23
jacekowski	you should unregister dsme watchdog before	12:23
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		12:23
jacekowski	then kill it	12:23
jacekowski	and restart it	12:23
chem\|st	Gorroth: killall <service the watchdog is after> is only a good idea if you arent able to stop it properly anymore	12:23
*** rd has joined #maemo		12:23
Gorroth	oh, i really wasn't reading the conversation earlier	12:24
Gorroth	i was just making a lame joke	12:24
chem\|st	Gorroth: ;)	12:24
chem\|st	those kiddies on tmo are awesome	12:24
Gorroth	i like tmo	12:25
Gorroth	i don't plan to change my service away from them anytime soon	12:25
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		12:25
jacekowski	they suck	12:25
chem\|st	~tmo	12:25
infobot	tmo is, like, http://talk.maemo.org, or too much off-topic, or not ~t-mo	12:25
jacekowski	o2 is so much better	12:25
*** swc\|666 has quit IRC		12:25
jacekowski	no	12:25
jacekowski	t-mobile	12:25
Gorroth	so, O2 isn't better here, because it doesn't exist here	12:26
hrw	does someone here uses syncevolution?	12:26
chem\|st	Gorroth: over here we call it terrorkom, and I wont contract with them any time again	12:26
ieatlint	i agree, t-mo us is decent	12:27
ieatlint	beats the hell out of att at least, the only other gsm/umts carrier	12:27
Gorroth	oh. over here (USA), they are the smallest of the big 4, meaning they offer the best deals. but i don't contract with them	12:27
Gorroth	i have a post-pay plan with them on my main phone and a pay-as-you-go on the n900	12:28
Gorroth	just for the $1.49 internet when i need it (unlimited 24 hour internet at that price)	12:28
*** einsteinchen has quit IRC		12:28
*** lizardo has joined #maemo		12:28
chem\|st	Gorroth: as they used to be a german governmental service they are the biggest over here, with worst conditions and selling your soul for landlines/iphone/internet	12:29
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		12:29
fck	in lithuania bite 2euro 7GB for 3g	12:29
fck	prepay	12:29
Gorroth	yes, that's kinda like AT&T here	12:29
chem\|st	10eur per month no-limit	12:30
Gorroth	well, prices here suck in general for telecoms	12:30
Gorroth	but that price i quoted is really good for the USA	12:30
*** mikki-kun has quit IRC		12:30
Dassu	:(	12:30
Dassu	Same here.	12:31
*** eggonlea has joined #maemo		12:31
chem\|st	that's a 1eur per day that is fair I guess	12:31
Gorroth	yeah, and only when i want to use it.	12:32
Gorroth	so if i only use it a couple times a month, it's only $3 / mo.	12:32
chem\|st	sure... I guess I do not use it more frequently than 10 times a month	12:32
Gorroth	and considering i might only use this on the weekends or something when i'm doing "evil stuff" with it, i will probably only pay 3-4 times a month	12:33
Gorroth	yeah	12:33
Gorroth	now, my main phone has unlimited internet all the time	12:33
Gorroth	and it has to stay that way :) it downloads updates and podcasts in the background	12:34
Gorroth	helps me with GPS directions, etc.	12:34
chem\|st	Gorroth: my contract should be 20eur but I get a discount as longterm customer so I pay about 4eur for internet and like nothing for mobilephone	12:34
Gorroth	ah, okay. i'm a recent customer, as of 11 months ago	12:35
Gorroth	but they didn't jump my price when they increased the prices a little bit on their plans (they gave a little more too, but nothing i needed)	12:35
Gorroth	so i guess i'm grandfathered in as well from now on	12:36
Gorroth	and the great thing is that i can change my phone at will and keep that price, unless they change their mind (since there is no contract) :)	12:36
chem\|st	I had a lucky spot as this was only available for 30days and was not shown at the website	12:36
Gorroth	nice	12:36
chem\|st	but with that I gave up the free phone choice forever, did not know that until I was in need of a new phone	12:37
ieatlint	Gorroth, yeah, tmobile does the grandfathered thing well	12:38
ieatlint	i've been a customer for 7 years now...	12:38
*** leandrosansilva has joined #maemo		12:38
ieatlint	had my issues with them, but they don't compare to the horrors i see friends with att have, and at the end of the day, the phone works and the customer service is generally polite	12:39
*** CutMeOwnThroat has quit IRC		12:39
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		12:41
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		12:41
ieatlint	heh, and t-mo us is also advertising their 3g network as 4g	12:41
*** benh has quit IRC		12:41
*** rcg-work has joined #maemo		12:42
Gorroth	ieatlint: yeah. i had an iphone but left AT&T and paid the contrac ttermination charge because it was so bad	12:42
Gorroth	been happy with tmo in the northeast at least	12:42
ieatlint	i think a big part of their issue is the iphone... too many people	12:42
Gorroth	the iPhone probably had a lot to do with the poor AT&T quality though, because before that phone, AT&T worked really well for me	12:42
Gorroth	yeah	12:42
ieatlint	it's said here that whenever hipsters congregrate, an att cell tower goes down	12:42
Gorroth	hahaha	12:43
Gorroth	i hate hipsters so much	12:43
ieatlint	yeah... and they're all over the place :(	12:43
Gorroth	i know :(	12:43
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo		12:44
Gorroth	okay, i'm going to sleep while the android sdk does it thing for setup	12:44
* Gorroth &		12:44
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		12:44
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		12:50
*** bigbrovar has joined #maemo		12:50
*** mikhas has joined #maemo		12:52
*** arno0ob has quit IRC		12:52
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		12:52
*** tackat has joined #maemo		12:52
*** mikhas has quit IRC		12:58
*** rd has quit IRC		12:59
*** marciom_ has joined #maemo		13:00
*** mikhas has joined #maemo		13:02
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		13:02
*** alextreme has quit IRC		13:05
chem\|st	What's new in Nokia Ovi Suite 3.0	13:06
chem\|st	A new Home view	13:06
chem\|st	* Quick access to my content and sync	13:06
chem\|st	* Recommended apps, games from Ovi Store	13:06
chem\|st	* Recommended music from Ovi Music *	13:06
chem\|st	* Notifications to update your phone software and to take a backup from your phone	13:06
chem\|st	* Smart way to connect to the Internet when you're without fixed connection or WLAN	13:06
*** mikhas has quit IRC		13:06
chem\|st	Introducing Ovi Music	13:06
chem\|st	* Full playback controls * Discover and download your favourites from the millions of tracks available on Ovi*	13:07
chem\|st	* Drag music to and from your phone	13:07
chem\|st	* Ovi Music Unlimited support *	13:07
chem\|st	* No need for a separate player	13:07
chem\|st	Other improvements	13:07
chem\|st	* Faster and simpler installation	13:07
chem\|st	* Maps view improvements: Single item delete for maps in phone, performance improvements for maps downloading.	13:07
chem\|st	ooops sry	13:07
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC		13:07
chem\|st	oh yeah btw NOS 3 is now public beta ;)	13:07
*** mairas has quit IRC		13:07
*** croppa has quit IRC		13:08
kerio	nos3?	13:08
kerio	oh	13:08
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		13:09
nidO	it still sucks and doesnt work properly though :\	13:10
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		13:10
*** sergio__ has joined #maemo		13:10
*** mikhas has joined #maemo		13:10
*** mikki-kun has joined #maemo		13:13
*** SomeOneBad has joined #maemo		13:15
MohammadAG	so	13:16
MohammadAG	how do i replace my internal battery?	13:16
*** mikhas has quit IRC		13:16
RobbieThe1st	Internal battery..?	13:17
mikki-kun	MohammadAG: which internal battery?	13:17
MohammadAG	N900	13:17
MohammadAG	the one that keeps the clock going	13:17
MohammadAG	i lose settings on each battery replacement	13:17
mikki-kun	are you refering to the mobo-battery?	13:17
RobbieThe1st	There isn't one - It's the main battery + a capacitor	13:17
*** Jucato has quit IRC		13:17
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		13:17
CableTwitch	Hey Mo, you still trying to wreck the inside of your 900? ;O)	13:18
MohammadAG	well then my capacitor got fried	13:18
MohammadAG	already did :P	13:18
mikki-kun	MohammadAG: and you seem to "loose" setting also if your sim-card might seem changed, maybe it could be a problem with that as well?	13:18
*** msanchez has joined #maemo		13:18
kerio	MohammadAG: send your n900 to nokia	13:18
kerio	also the batteries are the same internal batteries of the omfr	13:19
kerio	and those batteries sucked ass	13:19
MohammadAG	I know about that, but time doesn't reset if the sim is changed	13:19
kerio	(sez DocScrutinizer)	13:19
MohammadAG	kerio, no Nokia around here	13:19
mikki-kun	which firmware you'd recommend for me? i will remake my n900 this weekend (haven't been updating it for almost two months now and it got too slow to try finding the bugs)	13:19
*** Jucato has joined #maemo		13:19
mikki-kun	omfr?	13:20
RobbieThe1st	1.3	13:20
MohammadAG	OpenMoko FreeRunner	13:20
mikki-kun	isn't that another linux handheld?	13:21
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: thought it is a battery...	13:21
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		13:22
chem\|st	MohammadAG: soldered between cam-button and powerbutton on the backside of the mobo	13:22
MohammadAG	soldered? :(	13:23
RobbieThe1st	hm...	13:23
mikki-kun	and what is this u-boot stuff?	13:23
RobbieThe1st	Looking at a disassembly video right noq	13:23
MohammadAG	RobbieThe1st, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n900-disassembly	13:24
RobbieThe1st	Oh. then, right there: http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n900-disassembly/21112010098.jpg right above the vibrator motor	13:24
*** niq has joined #maemo		13:24
*** niq has joined #maemo		13:24
RobbieThe1st	That's a tiny battery alright	13:25
mikki-kun	RobbieThe1st: yup, that one seems to be it	13:25
MohammadAG	yeah, seen it	13:25
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		13:25
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: as I said...	13:25
RobbieThe1st	So... Pull it out and replace it with something the right voltage?	13:25
RobbieThe1st	chem\|st: I'm not disputing that. Now.	13:26
chem\|st	RobbieThe1st: ;)	13:26
RobbieThe1st	I thought it didn't have one due to it always seeming to lose time if the battery was out for more than a few seconds	13:26
chem\|st	MohammadAG: might be disconnected somehow as these things should runn for like ever	13:26
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo		13:27
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo		13:27
*** setanta has joined #maemo		13:27
RobbieThe1st	Huh, what are those two squarish things on the left and right/top of the device? http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/n900-disassembly/21112010103.jpg (left side of picture	13:28
*** FireFly\|n900 has quit IRC		13:29
mikki-kun	RobbieThe1st: maybe the speakers?	13:29
RobbieThe1st	Yea, that would make since	13:30
MohammadAG	indeed	13:30
mikki-kun	well ok... doesn't make much sense though	13:30
mikki-kun	ohhh	13:30
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		13:30
mikki-kun	it does make perfect sense	13:30
mikki-kun	x)	13:30
mikki-kun	i just reminded myself that it has the speaker grill in the top part of it	13:31
mikki-kun	but why face them like that?	13:31
*** mairas has joined #maemo		13:31
X-Fade	mikki-kun: Because otherwise the device needs to be an additional 1cm thicker ;)	13:31
mikki-kun	would you even feel that with the already bloated design? ;)	13:32
mikki-kun	nothing against my lovely n900, just at times she feels kinda brick-like... at least that makes for sturyness and prevents unwanted break ups of the device	13:33
*** grinsekatze has quit IRC		13:33
mikki-kun	MohammadAG: why did you take your n900 apart again?	13:33
MohammadAG	phone powered off for no reason :/	13:34
mikki-kun	:(	13:35
mikki-kun	no warranty?	13:35
RobbieThe1st	Bah! Warranty's are for sissies!	13:35
RobbieThe1st	(and people who haven	13:35
RobbieThe1st	t voided it by doing stuff to their n900s)	13:36
mikki-kun	RobbieThe1st: not if your pocket's empty and you want your phone back to working condition	13:36
MohammadAG	nope, it's a US device	13:36
MohammadAG	and in 1 month 3 days it'll expire anyways	13:36
RobbieThe1st	Heck, I'm not sure I even got a warranty on mine - I got it off eBay, looked up the IMEI number and got "You're phone isn't under warranty". For whatever reason.	13:37
*** frade has quit IRC		13:37
RobbieThe1st	And of course, it's all moot now anyway - It works fine, and it's been OC'd signifigantly.	13:38
kerio	eu devices are still under warranty until at least end of summer 2011 right?	13:38
*** grinsekatze has joined #maemo		13:39
chem\|st	kerio: end of autumn but yes	13:40
Trewas	at least mine had two year warranty (and probably same for all of EU), so it will be under warranty until the end of next year	13:40
*** bleeter has quit IRC		13:41
*** FireFly\|n900 has joined #maemo		13:41
chem\|st	Trewas: was shipped in december wasn't it?!	13:41
Trewas	chem\|st: yeah, I don't think anybody got them before december	13:42
chem\|st	I mean the earliest devices	13:42
chem\|st	yep	13:42
chem\|st	end of autumn then at least	13:42
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		13:43
* alterego whistles a semi-happy tune ..		13:44
* MohammadAG sighs		13:45
chem\|st	alterego: luck grabbed motivation and both are hidding under my desk now...	13:45
*** FireFly has joined #maemo		13:45
CableTwitch	MohammadAG: Did you figure out if you could mess withthe RAM modules inthe N900?	13:48
alterego	chem\|st: Heh, I'm having this annoying issue, that if I destroy my BluetoothServer, when I try to recreate it again, if it's being re-enabled, it causes a segfault in an annoyingly unhelpful place.	13:49
alterego	Something weird with sdpd registration me thinks :/	13:50
CableTwitch	Is it possible to have a segfault in an extremely helpful place?	13:50
alterego	Well, it's not annoying when it's the last call in a program :D	13:50
alterego	sdp_set_profile_descs	13:51
alterego	That's the function that segfaults.	13:51
alterego	On second call.	13:51
alterego	All input data is perfectly valid, everything works fine the first time ...	13:51
alterego	Laptop is about to die	13:53
alterego	bbl	13:53
alterego	Okay, fixed the issue	13:53
alterego	:D	13:53
alterego	bbl	13:53
chem\|st	alterego: I got a problem just alike with BT (networking), first time everything is fine, disconnect and I am not even able to pair the devices again, both sides seem to be in proper state	13:59
chem\|st	restarting BT and dhcpd and stuff did never help btw	14:00
chem\|st	only once per laptop boot...	14:00
*** siriusnova has joined #maemo		14:04
*** FranzStrudel has joined #maemo		14:06
*** fck is now known as aft_away		14:07
*** asj_ has quit IRC		14:07
*** WakiMiko has quit IRC		14:08
*** yofel_ has joined #maemo		14:08
*** zap has joined #maemo		14:08
*** FireFly has quit IRC		14:10
*** WakiMiko has joined #maemo		14:11
*** FireFly has joined #maemo		14:11
*** yofel has quit IRC		14:12
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		14:14
*** Goliath23 has quit IRC		14:24
*** Goliath23 has joined #maemo		14:25
*** janemba has quit IRC		14:25
*** janemba has joined #maemo		14:26
*** janemba has joined #maemo		14:26
*** LjL has joined #maemo		14:26
*** arno0ob has joined #maemo		14:29
*** iDont has joined #maemo		14:29
*** Bash1 has joined #maemo		14:33
*** burchr is now known as w00t_		14:35
*** RobbieThe1st has left #maemo		14:36
*** SomeOneBad has quit IRC		14:36
*** SomeOneBad has joined #maemo		14:37
*** renatofilho has quit IRC		14:39
*** renato has joined #maemo		14:39
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC		14:42
*** ag0ny has quit IRC		14:44
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo		14:44
*** trupheenix has quit IRC		14:45
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		14:46
*** siriusnova has quit IRC		14:46
*** mvenplus has quit IRC		14:47
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		14:47
*** celesteh has joined #maemo		14:47
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC		14:48
*** mvenplus has joined #maemo		14:49
*** sougata has joined #maemo		14:49
*** comawhite has quit IRC		14:51
*** comawhite has joined #maemo		14:51
*** siriusnova has joined #maemo		14:52
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		14:53
*** Termana has joined #maemo		14:54
*** Rarok has joined #maemo		14:57
*** jsears has left #maemo		14:59
*** trumee_afk is now known as trumee		15:00
mikki-kun	can somebody also sum some important break throughs from the past two months in maemo (except pr1.3 and usb host seeming to work and a new power kernel)	15:04
*** trumee is now known as trumee_afk		15:05
*** sar3th\|away is now known as sar3th		15:05
mikki-kun	any apps or hacks you'd recommend so my n900 will be even faster (except OCing, doesn't help much if the IOs get too much)	15:05
CableTwitch	Oh, USB hostmode works now?	15:06
mikki-kun	at least i heard it is supposed to at least be beta now for everybody	15:06
CableTwitch	By works, does that mean without rebooting/screwing around with files/performing voodoo?	15:06
*** diegohcg has joined #maemo		15:07
mikki-kun	seems to be abled at kernel-level	15:07
mikki-kun	*enabled	15:07
mikki-kun	so it is a one time rebooting it seems	15:08
mikki-kun	but when playing with the kernel, it can be nasty in the end	15:08
mikki-kun	if it fails to install properly	15:08
mikki-kun	then your n900 will be introduced into the world of infinite loops	15:09
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo		15:10
CableTwitch	Oh, I've had that. Was a HW problem though.	15:10
BCMM	mikki-kun: uninstall hildon-desktop, do everything from the command line	15:11
* BCMM ducks		15:11
BCMM	(to go faster, i mean)	15:11
BCMM	install gentoo?	15:11
*** calvaris has quit IRC		15:11
mikki-kun	BCMM: compiling everything on that poor arm?! Ö.ö	15:12
mikki-kun	you crazy?	15:12
CableTwitch	How on earth would you make a call from the command line?	15:12
CableTwitch	Or, for that matter, accept one?	15:12
BCMM	uh	15:12
*** kkb1101 has joined #maemo		15:12
mikki-kun	it takes already my atom n280 ages at times	15:12
BCMM	dbus? i dunno	15:12
BCMM	mikki-kun: nah, you'd use distcc	15:12
CableTwitch	Warning! You cannot accept a call at this time, as your operator privilidges are too low!	15:12
*** kkb110 has quit IRC		15:12
mikki-kun	i think maemo relies heavily on dbus for that	15:13
mikki-kun	BCMM: but then it ain't -march=native!	15:13
BCMM	sudo call_the_bloody_fire_brigade	15:13
mikki-kun	and i want -march=native!	15:13
BCMM	i'm pretty sure there's a way to find out what -march=native means	15:13
mikki-kun	lscpu and then check what it states	15:14
BCMM	besides, it's Gentoo. the whole point is that you have a stupidly long list of flags that don't do anything	15:14
* BCMM ducks again		15:14
mikki-kun	then do some manual searching and hacking	15:14
BCMM	i didn't know lscpu	15:14
BCMM	but i already don't like it	15:14
BCMM	it's missing bogomips, the only true measure of performance	15:15
*** lolloo has joined #maemo		15:16
BCMM	mikki-kun: ok, for a not-stupid suggestion to speed things up: disable tracker	15:16
BCMM	or restrict it to a subdirectory	15:16
BCMM	that's a big one, and it targets IO	15:17
mikki-kun	BCMM: i#ve already tweaked it to only certain dirs	15:17
mikki-kun	Description:Gentoo Base System release 2.0.1-r1	15:19
mikki-kun	just for you BCMM so you know what i use as my main os :)	15:19
BCMM	oh, me too. i actually have quite sane cflags too	15:19
BCMM	i just don't think it's fair for me to miss out on the fun-poking just cause i use it	15:19
BCMM	mikki-kun: where is that string from, btw?	15:20
*** jpinx-eeepc has joined #maemo		15:20
mikki-kun	BCMM lsb-release is the packages name, you can then use "lsb_release -d" to get that shown	15:21
BCMM	heh, i didn't know we could install lsb-release	15:21
mikki-kun	sys-apps/lsb-release	15:21
BCMM	it'll be just like using ubuntu now	15:22
*** Brownout has quit IRC		15:22
mikki-kun	how come?	15:22
*** Ian-- has quit IRC		15:23
BCMM	well, it's the easiest way to identify ubuntu's version	15:23
mikki-kun	you mean meego? that will turn out even worse i guess	15:23
mikki-kun	wasn't that by "uname -a" as nobody tweaks his kernel-string?	15:23
BCMM	and the main thing i do when fixing ubuntu for people seems to be pointing out that they missed a dist-upgrade ages ago	15:23
mikki-kun	x)	15:23
BCMM	heh, does lsb_release on gentoo do anything other than tell you your baselayout version?	15:23
*** Jucato has quit IRC		15:23
BCMM	it isn't really very meaningful on a rolling-release system...	15:24
*** Jucato has joined #maemo		15:24
*** kerio has quit IRC		15:24
mikki-kun	http://linux.die.net/man/1/lsb_release	15:24
BCMM	heh, only just noticed - are you running ~arch?	15:24
*** TheNewAndy has quit IRC		15:25
mikki-kun	i'd be insane if not to	15:25
mikki-kun	THIS. IS. GENTOO! i mean i live by solving problems coming up from upgrades :)	15:26
mikki-kun	gets my braincells every now and then also a little activated	15:26
BCMM	but you can get more problems by simply keywording a random assortment of packages so they break when you don't keyword the deps!	15:27
*** Rarok has quit IRC		15:27
*** kerio has joined #maemo		15:28
*** sougata has quit IRC		15:28
mikki-kun	i've some of the stuff masked to a certain version e.g. xorg is still 1.7-something... i am not up to solve xorg's problems... i've had more luck solving schrödinger's time independant equation than getting 1.8 working for a long time though following the guides	15:29
*** Brownout has joined #maemo		15:29
BCMM	i'm starting to feel offtopic	15:29
*** Brownout is now known as Guest9262		15:29
siriusnova	Maemo is dead	15:32
siriusnova	why do we still have a channel?	15:32
siriusnova	:/	15:32
*** gomiam has quit IRC		15:33
khertan_	siriusnova, because else you will not be able to post about your stupidity	15:33
mikki-kun	due to the n900 still living and kicking ass!	15:33
siriusnova	i have an n900	15:33
*** psycho_oreos has quit IRC		15:33
*** gomiam has joined #maemo		15:34
mikki-kun	i still think the n900 is an awesome device	15:34
comawhite	if I want to install flash on maemo, which package do i get?	15:34
mikki-kun	it is already installed by default	15:35
mikki-kun	9.3.something imo	15:35
comawhite	well in the sdk it deals me I don't have it	15:35
siriusnova	n900 is awesome, it would be awesomer if Nokia wasnt a clueless corporation regarding its own devices	15:35
mikki-kun	ahhh, in the sdk... dunno, sorry	15:35
comawhite	siriusnova, don't be mad they dumped gtk	15:35
mikki-kun	the n900 has too much slow storage, too few fast storage and problems with the ram imo	15:36
comawhite	I don't own one so I don't know	15:36
*** frade has joined #maemo		15:36
toggles	whiney bitches	15:36
toggles	it's leaps and bounds above n770 and n810, you knew what you were getting into	15:37
comawhite	well wait for the N9	15:37
mikki-kun	comawhite: not with meego	15:38
mikki-kun	it seems to be utter crap imo	15:38
mikki-kun	drm, everything closed by default...	15:39
mikki-kun	i won't just get it then	15:39
comawhite	mikki-kun, meego looks great	15:39
*** SWFu is now known as SWFu-away		15:39
comawhite	just too bad it's hardware picky	15:39
comawhite	:\|	15:39
mikki-kun	i don't like it being closed	15:40
mikki-kun	goes against my (F)OSS policy	15:40
comawhite	I thought it was open	15:41
Wizzup	meego, closed?	15:41
mikki-kun	at least it is by default an option, it can be opened though	15:41
Wizzup	Are you sure you read enough about the project?	15:41
*** sougata has joined #maemo		15:42
Corsac	mikki-kun: meego as a project is more open than maemo, I guess what you're speaking about is the normal vs. open mode which is about the security system	15:42
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo		15:43
*** Rarok has joined #maemo		15:43
Corsac	(and some vendors might not enable open mode at all, that's true)	15:43
mikki-kun	security system? i thought it was affecting the whole system	15:43
Corsac	maybe because security has to be taken system-wide?	15:44
nidO	its two modes that either enable drm and hardware signing or disable it, neither affects the fact that the platform's oss though.	15:44
Corsac	yeah, but the platform beeing oss is one thing, the OS running on the device is another	15:45
BCMM	does that mean that the whole system is either in a "run signed stuff" state or a "run open stuff" state, or that each application is in one mode or the other and they are somewhat sandboxed from interacting with each other?	15:45
Corsac	depending on who you are, it's not the same one which matters :)	15:45
Corsac	BCMM: system-wide	15:45
nidO	BCMM its the system as a whole	15:45
Corsac	needing a reboot	15:45
Corsac	to switch from one mode to another	15:46
*** pablo2 has joined #maemo		15:46
BCMM	so there is basically an "iphone mode" where you can run signed stuff but aren't allowed to install stuff you wrote?	15:46
Corsac	https://lwn.net/Articles/415833/	15:46
BCMM	so there isn't yet anything GPLv3-licensed which is truly necessary for a linux distro then	15:47
Corsac	http://wiki.meego.com/Security	15:47
BCMM	" When Ware asked how many in the audience had used their phone for banking, he got quite a few hands; "you're all screwed", he said." -er, what?	15:48
BCMM	sensible browsers don't store that data...	15:48
comawhite	mikki-kun, Meego is open source	15:49
comawhite	Is MeeGo an open source project or a product?	15:49
comawhite	MeeGo is an open source project hosted by the Linux Foundation that encourages community contributions in accordance with the best practices of the open source development model.	15:49
Corsac	BCMM: no, open mode is required for low level development, application developpment can be done using normal mode	15:49
BCMM	ah i see	15:49
BCMM	but the kernel at least is tivoised?	15:49
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		15:49
Corsac	tivoised?	15:50
comawhite	One good thing about Meego it's based on Qt :)	15:50
BCMM	source is GPL'ed or similar, but you can't actually replace teh code	15:50
*** tackat has quit IRC		15:50
*** tackat has joined #maemo		15:50
*** tilppis has joined #maemo		15:51
BCMM	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoisation	15:51
BCMM	like so many things in the world today, Linus doesn't understand why RMS is so upset about it	15:51
*** mece has quit IRC		15:52
khertan_	BCMM, hum ... so will run only signed app too ? and for pyqt apps ?	15:53
BCMM	i don't know	15:55
khertan_	Protection of the software deployment chain by cryptography-based source authentication and ranking to prevent attacks via malicious repositories. <<< third party repository exclude	15:55
BCMM	i'm asking how it works	15:55
khertan_	a good start	15:55
khertan_	to prevent me to switch to meego :)	15:55
BCMM	yeah...	15:56
BCMM	woah, wiki says mer is giving up because of meego	15:56
BCMM	is there currently an alternative being worked on for use to use in the event that meego turns out to suck and hate freedom?	15:57
BCMM	(to totally exaggerate a bit)	15:57
khertan_	really mer on maemo wiki is define as : Mer is now an inactive project, due to the introduction of the MeeGo (http://www.meego.com) project which shares a similar mission as Mer. Mer was a community research project into an open and openly developed Maemo platform.	15:58
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo		15:58
BCMM	so is meego going to be more open, apart from the whole secure mode thing?	15:59
BCMM	i mean, if one is prepered to just ignore payway DRM apps, will it be a pretty much open distro or what?	15:59
BCMM	^payware	15:59
sx0n	secure != open	16:00
*** BCMM_ has joined #maemo		16:00
BCMM	i mean, will it be feasible to just strip out the evil bits, if one isn't interested in paying for apps?	16:01
sx0n	...but it's not open in sense that i would know the answer :)	16:02
khertan_	sx0n, secure can be open ...	16:02
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: that depends on the bootloader first and foremost	16:02
khertan_	so will depends on device manufacturers ?	16:03
sx0n	khertan_, my point exactly. it's not tautology	16:03
BCMM	i have no idea how the n900 boot process works	16:03
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: if your device's bootloader is designed to start signed kernels only, then there's not anything you can do	16:03
BCMM	well, the n900 is clearly capable of starting arbitrary kernels	16:03
BCMM	i certainly wouldn't use a device that wasn't	16:04
BCMM	i mean, wouldn't get one for myself	16:04
BCMM	stuff like hostmode would've been impossible if the n900's kernel wasn't modifiable	16:04
comawhite	I wonder how a SNES emulator works on maemo	16:04
*** BCMM has quit IRC		16:04
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: this can change any time, with arbitrary future updates.	16:05
BCMM_	as i said, i have no idea how the boot system works...	16:05
khertan_	comawhite, really well ... specially with a bluetooth gamepad	16:05
khertan_	comawhite, tv out works also	16:05
*** iDont has quit IRC		16:06
*** leandrosansilva has quit IRC		16:06
BCMM_	you mean they could push an update that flashes new firmware to whatever the equivalent of a bios is?	16:06
*** tekojo has quit IRC		16:06
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: yet if e.g. meego is designed to run in secure mode, then switching to open mode will leave you with a custom kernel and none of the proprietary apps running on that	16:06
BCMM_	yes, i was wondering how much stuff will be secured	16:07
DocScrutinizer	nobody can tell	16:07
khertan_	DocScrutinizer, just hope that phone feature will not be proprietary :)	16:07
BCMM_	i mean, will that mean no 3rd party payware, or no phone calls?	16:07
DocScrutinizer	yes, basically	16:07
BCMM_	heh	16:07
khertan_	while my n900 run, got the last PyQt and Qt release, i think i ll still use it even if better hw with meego is release	16:08
comawhite	khertan_, do they have a PSX one?	16:09
comawhite	I didn't see it in the manager	16:09
*** dos1 has joined #maemo		16:09
khertan_	comawhite, psx is but i didn't follow if it s work well	16:10
comawhite	ah okay	16:10
* comawhite needs to find a way to buy a n900 that has the US-international keyboard on it		16:10
khertan_	there is a emulator to run palm pre game using sdl like Need for speed :)	16:10
khertan_	comawhite, some keyboard variants really sucks	16:12
comawhite	yeah I need the umlauts which the US version doesn't have	16:13
DocScrutinizer	comawhite: I changed the keymat on mine, when the .de qwertz layout annoyed me too much	16:13
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		16:14
comawhite	qwertz is annoying	16:14
DocScrutinizer	the missing direct up/down cursor is annoying	16:14
DocScrutinizer	When I have to press blue-left for up, then entering shift-up gets clumsy and entering blue-up is impossible	16:15
comawhite	mhmm	16:15
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		16:16
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		16:16
*** timeless_mbp has joined #maemo		16:16
*** f3ew has quit IRC		16:20
*** Dregs has joined #maemo		16:21
alterego	I was out walking, testing my GPS app and boom http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/Screenshot-20101118-121229.png	16:21
alterego	I was abducted by aliens	16:22
*** geaaru has quit IRC		16:22
Choom	ROFL	16:22
*** Dregz has quit IRC		16:22
MohammadAG	alterego, messed up portrait and landscape layouts? :P	16:23
edheldil	alterego: it has certain geek appeal :)	16:23
*** Diod has joined #maemo		16:24
MohammadAG	alterego, btw, crop the bottom left area and make an icon out of it, looks sexy	16:24
alterego	MohammadAG: :)	16:24
alterego	That was actually a mixture of botched rendering in landscape whilst view switching and also a transition from portrait to landscape.	16:24
alterego	It happened when I was implementing that background image.	16:25
*** ToJa92 has joined #maemo		16:26
*** avs has quit IRC		16:27
DocScrutinizer	anybody got a hint for me on how to spy/intercept on the number dialed in phone app?	16:28
DocScrutinizer	like "No No! don't call that number! (call cancelled)"	16:29
E0x	is not a blacklist	16:30
E0x	app already ?	16:30
DocScrutinizer	hmm	16:30
E0x	i mean , don't exist a blacklist app already ?	16:30
E0x	i think i saw one	16:30
E0x	in tmo	16:30
DocScrutinizer	yeah gotya	16:30
DocScrutinizer	don't remember any	16:30
alterego	Should be pretty much the same, but with a different dbus signal.	16:31
alterego	I implemented one in Python ages ago, but I never really did anything with it.	16:31
alterego	Lost now ..	16:31
DocScrutinizer	:-(	16:31
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC		16:32
*** schend has quit IRC		16:32
DocScrutinizer	I gather when it's actually a dbus msg, then you can't intercept it?	16:32
*** FranzStrudel has quit IRC		16:32
alterego	signal, sorry ;)	16:33
comawhite	anyone know how to get rid of this annoying warning? "hildon-desktop[8235]: GLIB WARNING ** ClutterX11 - Failed to get XImage of pixmap: e0003a, removing"	16:33
E0x	DocScrutinizer: http://www.mynokiaworld.com/2010/02/block-unwanted-calls-on-your-n900/	16:33
DocScrutinizer	E0x: :-D	16:33
alterego	That's the wrong way though, you want outgoing right?	16:33
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		16:34
DocScrutinizer	yes	16:34
E0x	DocScrutinizer: that is old but i am pretty sure i saw something "more new" at tmo	16:34
DocScrutinizer	it's a call-rejecter for inbound	16:34
DocScrutinizer	I need a call-blocker for outbound	16:35
E0x	oh	16:36
E0x	delete the contact	16:36
E0x	:P	16:36
DocScrutinizer	every proper phone has a function to restrict dialable numbers to one group in contacts, or to 10 or 1 specially defined numbers	16:36
*** FranzStrudel has joined #maemo		16:36
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		16:36
DocScrutinizer	E0x: BS	16:36
alterego	DocScrutinizer: the logic is the same	16:37
alterego	You just need to replace the incoming call dbus signal handler to accept the outgoing call dbus signal.	16:37
DocScrutinizer	this function commonly known as children's emergency call. Dial any number, always connect to same destination	16:38
alterego	I might mock something up for you tonight :P	16:38
DocScrutinizer	alterego: anyway how would I intercept the msg? I gather I only could immediately cancle the original call and replace it by my own	16:38
alterego	Oh, you want to hijack the call ..	16:39
DocScrutinizer	yep	16:39
*** f3ew has joined #maemo		16:39
DocScrutinizer	or block it	16:39
alterego	Yes, that's what I'd do.	16:39
alterego	Well, I thought you meant block, so that's exactly what I was saying before.	16:39
DocScrutinizer	ugly - leaves room for races	16:40
alterego	How quick can you dial?	16:40
DocScrutinizer	how quick can cellmo establish a call that costs $$$	16:40
alterego	It wont even establish a call	16:40
alterego	Not if you get the right signal.	16:41
DocScrutinizer	caller-gui will send a call cmd when you hit the green button	16:41
DocScrutinizer	with the complete number you dialed, and cellmo will start to establish that call immediately	16:41
*** dsg has joined #maemo		16:42
alterego	There's quite a few stages to call establishing.	16:43
alterego	The last of which is the one that costs you money.	16:43
alterego	At least for me ..	16:43
DocScrutinizer	and tbh I'm not certain caller-ui -> cellmo is via dbus at all	16:43
alterego	It's not, you're listening for signals from cellmo	16:43
DocScrutinizer	yep	16:43
DocScrutinizer	I guess caller-ui is talking to libisi directly	16:44
alterego	If you can press hangup, dispite sluggish N900 callui before a call is established. I'm sure you can manage to do it in code.	16:44
DocScrutinizer	so maybe I could do an evil hack along LD_PRELOAD	16:44
alterego	Maybe.	16:44
alterego	Yes, you could, but what would be the point?	16:44
alterego	It's like a 15 minute script.	16:45
DocScrutinizer	there's a window for races, you can't tell how many milliseconds it takes until cellmo really causes trouble for you, after it got the command to dial a premium number or even a emergency number etc	16:46
*** dsg has quit IRC		16:47
alterego	Well, rtcom-call-ui doesn't link directly to libisi	16:48
alterego	I think it uses dbus.	16:48
DocScrutinizer	you might be in a hospital or a dynamite factory where it's generally strictly forbidden to do any calls. Still you might want to allow 911 calls only	16:48
alterego	Which makes sense tbh.	16:48
*** Guest9262 has quit IRC		16:48
*** Guest9262 has joined #maemo		16:48
*** davyg has joined #maemo		16:49
DocScrutinizer	alterego: thanks, that's a great bit of info	16:49
DocScrutinizer	telepathy?	16:49
alterego	I'm still looking into it ;)	16:49
DocScrutinizer	:-D	16:49
*** FIQ has joined #maemo		16:49
alterego	Wow, that's a lot of dbus traffic.	16:49
alterego	Looks like telepathy is definitely involved.	16:50
DocScrutinizer	yeah, did this when I investigated contact-specific ringtone shit	16:50
*** Guest9262 is now known as Brownout		16:50
alterego	Yeah, I think that's where it starts.	16:50
*** gomiam has quit IRC		16:50
*** yofel_ is now known as yofel		16:50
DocScrutinizer	telepathy is a libcall or a dbus msg?	16:50
alterego	dbus method_call	16:51
DocScrutinizer	coooool	16:51
DocScrutinizer	well, maybe not. Anyway	16:51
alterego	/org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Account/ring/tel/rung com.nokia.Account.Interface.ChannelRequests.Create	16:51
DocScrutinizer	I'd need to intercept the dbus signal/msg from call-ui to telepathy	16:51
alterego	That's /ring/tel/ring btw ;)	16:52
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	16:52
DocScrutinizer	alas there's no way to intercept dbus	16:53
DocScrutinizer	except LD_PRELOAD MyOwnDbusLib	16:53
*** tackat has quit IRC		16:53
DocScrutinizer	or hacking dbus daemon :-o	16:53
DocScrutinizer	hmm, there's such a weird thing called policies for dbus	16:54
alterego	tbh, if you get the first request, there is a lot of time before cellmo gets it ;)	16:54
*** mikki-kun has quit IRC		16:54
DocScrutinizer	I might be able to block all signals from call-ui to telepathy, and then resend the ones I like from my own proxy	16:54
alterego	Yeah, bit too much effort and I don't think it's necessary :P	16:55
*** FIQ has quit IRC		16:55
DocScrutinizer	alterego: I like to design a clean architecture, not a "mostly works under normal conditions"	16:55
alterego	Sure, I understand the sentiment.	16:55
alterego	Oh, regarding app activation schemes, I was thinking of 1. Accept payment with related email address. 2. Application startup requires activation with email address. 3. IMEI is used to generate a unique hash based on IMEI and email which is encrypted and sent from my server.	16:57
DocScrutinizer	:-) /etc/dbus-1/system.d/*	16:57
alterego	That way I don't need someone to send me their IMEI for custom binaries/packages.	16:57
DocScrutinizer	alterego: sounds good	16:58
alterego	I think that makes sense, I've not thoroughly thought it all out yet, but the strategy would basically mean I wouldn't ever have the IMEI on my side of the fence, so to speak.	16:58
*** FIQ has joined #maemo		16:59
*** FIQ has joined #maemo		16:59
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	16:59
alterego	It's not perfect, there's the possibility of a race condition ;)	17:00
*** tilppis has quit IRC		17:00
alterego	Say, gan orders, and you register with his email, is activation would fail. If you managed to do it inbetween his purchase and activation.	17:00
alterego	Oh wait, I had a solution to that.	17:00
alterego	I was going to email an activation code to the email address, then do an activation negotiation and lock.	17:01
alterego	Though I still want to make it as easy as possible for end users.	17:01
nidO	you're going to do an activation check on every startup?	17:01
*** Flanbix has quit IRC		17:01
khertan_	open navigator ... and put the activation code in the field on your website	17:02
khertan_	use paypal for paiement	17:02
alterego	nidO: no, once the lock is in place upon activation it wont need to happen again.	17:02
*** ppenz has quit IRC		17:02
alterego	Activation is my program asking for an unlock code from my server in order to operate on a specific device.	17:02
*** baraujo has joined #maemo		17:02
*** amigadave has quit IRC		17:02
nidO	so you can only activate based on an email address once? whats the method for accommodating users who change device?	17:03
DocScrutinizer	you generate a crypted version of the email addr and send that back to user as token, he enters this into app to unlock, where app decrypts the token with your public key stored inside app and compares this to the plain text email add user also entered to app	17:03
DocScrutinizer	alterego: ^^	17:03
alterego	DocScrutinizer: yeah,	17:03
alterego	nidO: my descretion.	17:03
alterego	No guarantees of multiple device licenses.	17:03
alterego	Wait, that didn't make sense.	17:04
DocScrutinizer	users could spread the token, but it's worthless without the matching email addr, and users will usually hesitate to spread that	17:04
alterego	I mean, I'm not going to guarantee that I'll let you use multiple devices, but I might.	17:04
alterego	DocScrutinizer: my thoughts exactly :)	17:04
alterego	DocScrutinizer: and it's traceable ;)	17:04
*** Termana has quit IRC		17:05
nidO	mainly talking about changing device not using several, will people have to manually contact you if their n900 dies and they replace it?	17:05
alterego	Kind of.	17:05
alterego	nidO: yes.	17:05
alterego	nidO: in the event of my death, I'm sure whoever cracks my scheme will have versions on various torrent sites indexed at tmo :P	17:06
DocScrutinizer	with my scheme they don't need to. Just enter their mail addr and token to new device	17:06
alterego	DocScrutinizer: oh, I see what you're saying there.	17:06
alterego	Yeah, I was going to lock email to IMEI, but token is a good idea.	17:06
alterego	Basically an authentication user/pass combination.	17:06
DocScrutinizer	token == crypted email addr	17:07
alterego	Which gains the lock.	17:07
nidO	people lose emailed information though, a method of on-app requesting to resend the token to email would be very useful if you go that route	17:07
alterego	nidO: meh,	17:07
DocScrutinizer	then the app, on verifying token matches addr entered, it locks itself to IMEI	17:07
alterego	nidO: I'll make a request form on the webpage.	17:08
alterego	DocScrutinizer: yes, exactly! :)	17:08
*** Flanbix has joined #maemo		17:08
*** zimmerle has quit IRC		17:08
alterego	Though, that step may become unnecessary.	17:08
alterego	I want first run to ping my server and validate that the username has purchased and is not blacklisted.	17:08
alterego	Then afterwards it doesn't matter.	17:09
*** SWFu has joined #maemo		17:09
*** SWFu has quit IRC		17:09
*** SWFu has joined #maemo		17:09
*** SWFu has quit IRC		17:10
*** SWFu-away is now known as SWFu		17:10
DocScrutinizer	if locked-to-IMEI and (IMEI-lock == actual-IMEI) then start-real-app; else start-token-verification-and-lock-to-IMEI;	17:10
alterego	Should be a fun little project.	17:11
alterego	I'll try and release it FOSS :)	17:12
alterego	client/server mechanism.	17:12
*** fiferboy has joined #maemo		17:12
*** fiferboy has joined #maemo		17:12
DocScrutinizer	check both conditions locked-to-IMEI(), and (IMEI-lock == actual-IMEI), on a few random places in your code. Change these checks from version to version	17:12
alterego	DocScrutinizer: Yeah, already thought of that ;)	17:13
alterego	Needs to be inline code aswell, don't want someone cracking a function	17:13
DocScrutinizer	yep	17:13
DocScrutinizer	should be easy enough	17:13
alterego	I was thinking of all of that last night whilst trying to drift off to sleep.	17:14
*** The_Tall1 has joined #maemo		17:14
MohammadAG	alterego, I mentioned it once, and I'll mention it again	17:15
MohammadAG	if you're using dbus, someone can fake the dbus reply	17:15
alterego	Who's using dbus?	17:15
alterego	I use dbus to detect screen lock.	17:15
MohammadAG	how do you check the IMEI?	17:15
alterego	Dunno, not implemented yet.	17:16
alterego	I wouldn't use dbus though :P	17:16
MohammadAG	there's no other way afaik	17:16
alterego	Don't have to use IMEI either	17:16
alterego	We're using IMEI as a placeholder text for "some unique machine id thingy".	17:16
DocScrutinizer	there is, e.g pnatd. But honestly it doesn't matter much	17:16
DocScrutinizer	exactly	17:17
*** zutesmog has left #maemo		17:17
DocScrutinizer	and the point is not the lock to this particular IMEI, but rather the link from activation to email-addr	17:17
DocScrutinizer	anybody publishing a executable with activation and IMEI faker would disclose his email-addr	17:18
*** larsivi has quit IRC		17:18
*** lolloo has quit IRC		17:19
*** rye_raptor has joined #maemo		17:20
DocScrutinizer	so strictly spoken it's not even mandatory to lock the app to imei, it's just an additional 'help' for user to rethink sharing his executable	17:20
*** TeringTuby has left #maemo		17:21
DocScrutinizer	the basic security function is the executable incorporates a watermark that holds user's email addr	17:22
*** tackat has joined #maemo		17:22
Zucca	Hm. Where can I finf some kind of error log on Maemo 5?	17:22
DocScrutinizer	and any "check for update" call could nuke a pirated version	17:22
Zucca	My cam appa dies as soon as I open the lens cover.	17:23
DocScrutinizer	Zucca: uninstall fcam	17:23
DocScrutinizer	I suppose you got power kernel	17:23
Zucca	Ok. fcam didn't caused this before.	17:23
Zucca	Yes. Powerkernel because of Mobile Hotspot.	17:24
DocScrutinizer	you got a new kernel, and the fcam drivers don't match it	17:24
* Zucca uninstalls fcam and its drivers.		17:24
DocScrutinizer	cya folks	17:25
*** villev has quit IRC		17:25
*** felipec has joined #maemo		17:26
*** rye_raptor has quit IRC		17:26
*** edisson has joined #maemo		17:27
*** guysoft42 has quit IRC		17:28
*** mikki-kun has joined #maemo		17:30
*** niq has quit IRC		17:32
*** zeltak has quit IRC		17:33
*** zeltak has joined #maemo		17:33
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		17:36
*** lolloo has joined #maemo		17:37
*** zeltak has quit IRC		17:37
*** zeltak has joined #maemo		17:38
*** tackat has quit IRC		17:41
*** sperle has quit IRC		17:44
*** Openfree has quit IRC		17:53
*** FranzStrudel has quit IRC		17:54
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		17:56
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo		17:57
*** rcg-work has quit IRC		17:58
*** marciom_ has quit IRC		18:00
*** lmoura has quit IRC		18:00
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC		18:00
*** setanta has quit IRC		18:00
*** jpe has quit IRC		18:02
*** renato has quit IRC		18:02
*** renato has joined #maemo		18:04
*** marciom_ has joined #maemo		18:04
*** BCMM_ has quit IRC		18:05
*** lmoura has joined #maemo		18:05
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo		18:06
*** ptlo has quit IRC		18:06
*** chx_sleep is now known as chx		18:09
*** hannesw_ is now known as hannesw		18:11
*** BRANEDY has joined #maemo		18:13
*** BRANEDY has quit IRC		18:15
*** Andy80 has quit IRC		18:18
*** tilppis has joined #maemo		18:19
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		18:20
*** guysoft42 has joined #maemo		18:22
ieatlint	woo... just spent 2h learning jpeglib to replace gd in an app, and managed to cut processing time by 20% and lower memory usage from 91.8mb to 278kb	18:26
*** kwek has quit IRC		18:26
FauxFaux	Sounds like an easy gd bug to fix. :)	18:27
*** guysoft42 has quit IRC		18:27
ieatlint	not a bug	18:27
*** guysoft42 has joined #maemo		18:27
ieatlint	i'm analyzing colour data of jpeg images, so i can read 1 line at a time... gd isn't designed for this, and by default loads the entire raw image into memory	18:28
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		18:28
*** Jay_BEE has joined #maemo		18:31
Jay_BEE	gm to all	18:31
*** FIQ has quit IRC		18:32
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		18:32
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo		18:33
*** hannesw has quit IRC		18:33
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		18:35
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		18:35
*** deegee__ has joined #maemo		18:39
*** polymar has quit IRC		18:41
ShadowJK	grr	18:41
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC		18:42
ShadowJK	two APs with same ssid, and N900 doesn't "roam"	18:42
* ShadowJK ponders		18:42
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo		18:42
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		18:44
CableTwitch	Both APs have the same security method, and the same key, right?	18:44
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: pathological situation, Roaming between APs with same SSID is considered intra-wlan handover, and needs support from AP to propagate regisration to the network from one AP to another	18:44
*** millenomi has joined #maemo		18:45
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: also both APs need to share same "wired" network and same DHCP server	18:45
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		18:45
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I don't know if N900 wlan supports this client side, but for sure it won't work if AP side doesn't fully support it	18:46
*** TheVirtualVortex has joined #maemo		18:47
*** TheVirtualVortex has quit IRC		18:47
*** TheVirtualVortex has joined #maemo		18:47
*** fredrin has quit IRC		18:47
ieatlint	i've used wifi roaming on the n900 at a couple conferences... unencrypted only though	18:47
*** nicu has quit IRC		18:48
*** setanta has joined #maemo		18:48
ieatlint	the client was smart enough to hop bssids seemingly...	18:48
*** bergie has quit IRC		18:48
DocScrutinizer	simple wifi roaming isn't anything special. your client detects there's an allowed AP with better signal, and associates to that new AP, incl AUTH, DHCP and all	18:49
ieatlint	but there was no real renegotiation, as no key auth, and my dhcp lease was still vaid	18:49
DocScrutinizer	o.O	18:49
ieatlint	valid	18:49
DocScrutinizer	ok, so I assume this was a correctly set up multi-AP wlan	18:50
*** harbaum has quit IRC		18:50
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		18:50
DocScrutinizer	and it seems to indicate the network manager of whatever system you used handled this correctly	18:50
ieatlint	eh, worked on my n900 and my laptop with wpa_supplicant	18:51
ieatlint	but my dhcp client is not connected to wpa_supplicant	18:51
*** zap has quit IRC		18:51
DocScrutinizer	DHCP lease handover between unrelated APs won't work though, for obvious reasons	18:51
ieatlint	hey, it could work, by chance :P	18:51
ieatlint	and yeah, the network was setup properly	18:52
DocScrutinizer	it could also work by asking DHCP server of new AP to give me identical lease	18:52
ieatlint	but my point is that dhcp i don't believe reconfirms its lease when hopping	18:52
ieatlint	yeah, any dhcp servers would need to be linked, so as not to issue conflicting leases	18:53
DocScrutinizer	yep	18:53
*** achipa has quit IRC		18:54
ieatlint	anyway, i definitely maintained connections on my n900 without any cell signal and walking well beyond the range of any single ap, so i would say it does support roaming on at least unencrypted networks	18:54
DocScrutinizer	this whole topic is a real PITA when you try to share your neighbours' APs and they all kept the default setup like SSID="WLAN"	18:55
DocScrutinizer	:-P	18:55
ieatlint	if you're talking a small amount of APs and a small number of clients, just use the poor man solution: dhcp pools that don't overlap :P	18:56
*** andrenarchy has quit IRC		18:56
CableTwitch	Thats why you do them a favour by breaking in, and setting it all more securely XD	18:56
*** eMHa has quit IRC		18:56
*** myuu has joined #maemo		18:57
ieatlint	or setup a host someone on the internet, and change their default route to go through you so you can monitor what they do by remote	18:57
ieatlint	bleh, s/someone/somewhere	18:57
*** fecub has joined #maemo		18:57
DocScrutinizer	...which I actually did occasionally, as that poor guy had the whole config of his AP exposed, including phone numbers dialed etc	18:57
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: heh, nice idea	18:58
*** millenomi has quit IRC		18:58
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		18:59
myuu	hey quick question	18:59
myuu	what do I replace vi with in pr 1.2	18:59
myuu	when enabling red pill mode	18:59
*** gn00b has quit IRC		18:59
DocScrutinizer	errr?	18:59
joga	replacing vi? with what	18:59
DocScrutinizer	why?	19:00
myuu	another command id guess	19:00
*** Muiltr has joined #maemo		19:00
myuu	the file just isnt there according to the wiki	19:00
DocScrutinizer	and what that got to do with red-pill?	19:00
myuu	you need the command to enable it	19:00
myuu	at least to my knowledge	19:00
DocScrutinizer	aaaah	19:00
myuu	if there is another way id love to know	19:00
DocScrutinizer	you're asking for any proper editor in PR1.2?	19:01
ieatlint	you're missing vi in pr1.2?	19:01
*** MikeK has joined #maemo		19:01
nidO	uh if i understand what you're saying, if you cant figure out using another text editor than vi you probably dont want to be using red pill...	19:01
myuu	so if I get a better editor it should come with vi?	19:01
*** Wikier has quit IRC		19:01
DocScrutinizer	nidO: ACK	19:01
ieatlint	vi is an editor	19:01
myuu	oh what	19:02
alterego	What support do we have in Qt for finding prefered mass storage?	19:02
*** pH5 has joined #maemo		19:02
alterego	For applications?	19:02
myuu	ahhh ok	19:02
ieatlint	alterego: QDesktopServices::storageLocation	19:02
ieatlint	might have the method wrong... double check that	19:02
myuu	I think ill go get an editor then	19:02
alterego	Thanks :)	19:02
alterego	Yeah, that's a good help	19:02
ieatlint	oh, right, storageLocation() takes a type argument for things like data/temp/etc	19:03
DocScrutinizer	myuu: check mc (midnight commander)	19:03
DocScrutinizer	myuu: comes with built in editor	19:03
alterego	ieatlint: yeah	19:03
DocScrutinizer	myuu: (F3)	19:03
alterego	I'll give it a go and see if it works okay.	19:03
myuu	even better	19:04
DocScrutinizer	err F4, aka ESC;4	19:04
*** sougata has quit IRC		19:04
*** hrw is now known as hrw\|gone		19:04
DocScrutinizer	still nidO's point stands	19:05
DocScrutinizer	you probably dont want to be using red pill...	19:05
myuu	im only getting a few things	19:05
myuu	I dont want to brick my phone	19:05
myuu	trust me im not doing any power user stuff till I learn more	19:05
CableTwitch	Hmm, I was going to ask that... Its Esc+number for the F keys on the N900?	19:05
DocScrutinizer	myuu: :-D it's your phone :-P	19:06
CableTwitch	Or is it app specific?	19:06
myuu	yeah but its good to learn first, thanks for the help guys ill stick around	19:06
GAN900	How is setting up a headless NAS a completely alien expectation. . . .	19:07
alterego	"/home/developer/.local/share/data/"	19:07
alterego	What an aweful location.	19:07
alterego	~awful.	19:07
*** murrayc has quit IRC		19:07
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: depends on the target platform :-P	19:07
ieatlint	alterego: you didn't set your app name is why	19:08
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		19:08
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, what internal battery does the N900 use?	19:08
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: probably for a timex watch it's quite alien	19:08
alterego	ieatlint: oh, I didn't add rx/columbus on the end.	19:08
alterego	That's still bad.	19:08
ieatlint	the default location will be ~/.local/share/data/orgName/appName/	19:08
DocScrutinizer	mahthat backup battery?	19:08
alterego	It's a terrible place to put my tracklogs ...	19:08
MohammadAG	the one for time DocScrutinizer	19:09
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, FreeNAS on Intel SS4200.	19:09
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ^^	19:09
ieatlint	eh... doesn't clobber anything, and invisible to user in theory	19:09
The_Tall1	Hi is here somebody using geos-3.2.2 on the n810?	19:09
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: unclear, seems similar to the ne FreeRunner is using. Also seems similarly crappy	19:09
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, it's called mahthat?	19:09
ieatlint	the module/method also works across windows/osx/symbian/linux, so convenient for uniformity	19:09
DocScrutinizer	:-P	19:09
*** lbt has quit IRC		19:09
MohammadAG	what's the FreeRunner using?	19:10
DocScrutinizer	typo+ETAB	19:10
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: what's your question?	19:10
DocScrutinizer	what info do you need?	19:10
alterego	I think I prefer /home/user/.cache/rx/columbus for my logs	19:11
MohammadAG	what replacement battery should I get	19:11
*** w00t_ has quit IRC		19:11
*** w00t_ has joined #maemo		19:11
CableTwitch	One that works.	19:11
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: replacement batteries are also dead after 3 months	19:11
MohammadAG	alterego, or chown user:users /opt/rx and use that :)	19:11
alterego	pfft	19:11
*** burchr has joined #maemo		19:11
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, so? I'm stuck with an N900 that doesn't save time?	19:11
alterego	That's not UNIX :P	19:11
CableTwitch	How did you manage to kill your mobo-battery, Mo?	19:11
DocScrutinizer	Some users of FreeRunners had good results with using a 1F goldcap	19:11
*** burchr has quit IRC		19:12
*** burchr has joined #maemo		19:12
*** arno0ob has quit IRC		19:12
*** bahumbug has joined #maemo		19:12
*** burchr is now known as w00t_		19:12
MohammadAG	CableTwitch, no idea, it just forgets time now	19:12
*** gn00b has joined #maemo		19:12
CableTwitch	Weird.	19:12
DocScrutinizer	it's a really huge still small formfactor capacitor, that will backup time for several hours	19:12
DocScrutinizer	so while it's significantly worse than a good backup battery, it will not break and after 3 months it's superior	19:13
CableTwitch	Wedge a CR232 in there :O)	19:13
*** fecub has quit IRC		19:14
DocScrutinizer	I got ~50 backup battery spare parts here, all unused, all broken just from storing them 1 year without refresh charging	19:15
*** dneary has joined #maemo		19:16
DocScrutinizer	if you pay postage you can get them all :-P	19:16
xnt14	How does the battery lose charge after only 3 months?	19:16
DocScrutinizer	or you buy a similarly broken spare at your local electronics shoppe	19:16
DocScrutinizer	it loses sealing, it's leaking, it breaks internally from deep discharge or from heat while soldering or whatnot	19:17
DocScrutinizer	fubar by design	19:17
DocScrutinizer	forget about it	19:18
*** FIQ has joined #maemo		19:18
xnt14	DocScrutinizer: Ah, I see...	19:18
ShadowJK	Same wired network, same dhcp server	19:18
ShadowJK	WAP and same key	19:18
ShadowJK	but they don't talk with eachother	19:18
CableTwitch	WAP? Not overly fussed about security then? ;O)	19:18
DocScrutinizer	wap will need handover of credentials as well	19:18
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo		19:18
DocScrutinizer	WPA?	19:19
* CableTwitch got confused with WEP.		19:19
CableTwitch	I guess he means WPA, yes.	19:19
ShadowJK	ssh sessions survive fine, etc, because I get the same IP of course... but the os still signals browser and telepathy to close all connections	19:20
DocScrutinizer	WEP might work. WPA won't	19:20
CableTwitch	Damn this jetlag. On third of my though processes are still in Hawaii, another third are still wandering around Chicago O'Hare, and the remaining lump is here, confused as hell.	19:20
ShadowJK	yeah I meant wpa	19:21
ShadowJK	Annoying this is that this would "just work" if Maemo5 didn't tell apps to close connections	19:21
ShadowJK	works fine with xchat that ignores those signals :)	19:21
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: It would, but then it would break on properly set up WLANs	19:22
ShadowJK	the cisco:inksys ap do	19:22
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		19:22
*** vanadismobile has joined #maemo		19:23
*** norayr has quit IRC		19:23
*** sougata_ has joined #maemo		19:23
*** tilppis has quit IRC		19:23
ShadowJK	esn't seem to have any inter-ap protocol support	19:23
ShadowJK	but this cheap chinese one I have does	19:23
ShadowJK	unfortunately I can't find a source for them anymore :(	19:23
*** radic has quit IRC		19:23
*** Guest70301 has joined #maemo		19:23
*** radic has joined #maemo		19:25
*** siriusly has joined #maemo		19:25
*** Muiltr has quit IRC		19:25
*** ptlo has joined #maemo		19:27
*** siriusnova has quit IRC		19:28
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC		19:29
*** dvaske_ has joined #maemo		19:30
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk		19:31
*** l13tl3 has joined #maemo		19:35
*** sougata_ has quit IRC		19:36
*** vanadismobile has quit IRC		19:36
*** ptlo has quit IRC		19:37
*** pyhimys has joined #maemo		19:38
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		19:40
MohammadAG	i really like the haptic feedback on the N8	19:40
MohammadAG	it's not a click-vibrate thing	19:40
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC		19:40
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		19:41
*** hardaker has quit IRC		19:42
*** Guest70301 has quit IRC		19:43
myuu	I wish the option for it was in the right place	19:44
myuu	hey are you the guy that wrote that ps3 freedom app?	19:44
myuu	**option to disable	19:45
MohammadAG	here	19:45
myuu	great job man I thought that was really cool even before I had my phone	19:45
MohammadAG	the app was written by me, the modules by KaKaRoTo	19:45
MohammadAG	so the app wouldn't be functional without his work :)	19:45
myuu	ofc	19:46
*** Tscheesy has joined #maemo		19:46
*** TheVirtualVortex has quit IRC		19:48
*** sougata_ has joined #maemo		19:52
*** frade has quit IRC		19:53
RST38h	Well. Moo all.	19:54
SpeedEvil	Moo to you!	19:55
SpeedEvil	MooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO0000000000ooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo!	19:56
*** hannesw has quit IRC		19:56
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		19:57
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		19:58
Venemo	hey guys :)	19:59
*** bergie has joined #maemo		19:59
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo		20:01
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		20:02
*** sougata_ has quit IRC		20:02
*** trumee_afk is now known as trumee		20:03
*** hannesw has quit IRC		20:03
*** n6pfk has quit IRC		20:03
*** Guest70301 has joined #maemo		20:04
*** wqapol has joined #maemo		20:04
*** trumee is now known as trumee_afk		20:06
*** trumee_afk is now known as trumee		20:07
*** sougata_ has joined #maemo		20:07
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC		20:12
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo		20:12
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo		20:13
*** Guest70301 has quit IRC		20:14
*** Guest70301 has joined #maemo		20:14
*** n900evil has joined #maemo		20:14
*** Guest70301 is now known as FIQ\|n900		20:14
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		20:15
*** geaaru has quit IRC		20:15
*** kthomas_vh has joined #maemo		20:16
*** l13tl3 has quit IRC		20:16
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB3Cp-x_bu8	20:16
*** jpe has joined #maemo		20:16
*** n900evil is now known as SpeedEdvil		20:16
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC		20:17
*** SpeedEdvil is now known as SpeedEvil		20:18
DocScrutinizer	~tell RST38h about moohoho	20:18
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		20:22
*** willer is now known as willer_		20:25
*** trumee is now known as trumee_afk		20:25
*** l13tl3 has joined #maemo		20:26
*** dneary has quit IRC		20:28
*** lbt_away is now known as lbt		20:28
*** siriusly has quit IRC		20:28
*** timeless_mbp has quit IRC		20:28
*** sougata_ has quit IRC		20:29
*** trumee_afk has quit IRC		20:29
*** norayr has joined #maemo		20:29
*** trumee_afk has joined #maemo		20:31
*** siriusnova has joined #maemo		20:33
*** bergie has quit IRC		20:35
*** l13tl3 has quit IRC		20:36
*** lolloo has quit IRC		20:40
*** trumee_afk is now known as trumee		20:41
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		20:43
*** ZogG has quit IRC		20:43
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		20:43
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo		20:46
slonopotamus	so, according to my observations and internets, python is ~60x slower than C.	20:47
DocScrutinizer	hmm, depends	20:47
*** sougata_ has joined #maemo		20:47
slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer, sure, but on average ppl get 60x	20:48
*** l13tl3 has joined #maemo		20:48
* slonopotamus has 80x in one particular program, for example		20:49
slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer, it can be faster is small programs where large amount of things is done using builtins (written in c, obviously)	20:50
slonopotamus	i mean, large in %	20:51
ShadowJK	Yeah stuff starts getting slow once you're doing other stuff than just connecting things together in python	20:51
*** jpwhiting has quit IRC		20:51
slonopotamus	ShadowJK, startup is another issue. launching python program means reading several tens/hundreds of .py files	20:52
ShadowJK	Yeah	20:52
DocScrutinizer	python is OO and it's dynamic, so it's pretty clear what things will be slow in python and which are basically no diff to C	20:52
ShadowJK	It's somewhat amazing that MPlayer as a single 20-something megabyte executable starts almost instantly on N900 :-)	20:53
slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer, only c builtins are no diff.	20:53
lcuk	ShadowJK, not really	20:53
ShadowJK	ld.so has to do less work, I guess	20:54
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: starting as in "display some nice stuff to X"?	20:54
ShadowJK	Starting as in do anything at all	20:54
slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer, even trivial stuff like integer math/string operations already have big difference	20:54
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		20:55
*** xnt14 has quit IRC		20:55
*** igagis has joined #maemo		20:55
lcuk	slonopotamus, there is a thread on tmo about optimising/speeding up python	20:56
*** dvaske_ has quit IRC		20:56
lcuk	and Noobmonkey halved startup time by combination of things	20:56
DocScrutinizer	slonopotamus: that's because they are not trivial in python. If you're going to implement all the associated hidden runtime checks for value out of bounds, and whatnot, in C, I guess the diff gets less extreme	20:56
*** trbs has joined #maemo		20:56
lcuk	and managed to optimise certain things	20:56
slonopotamus	lcuk, whatever you do with it, it will never be close to c	20:56
lcuk	its easy to have a bloated python file	20:56
*** hurbu has joined #maemo		20:56
lcuk	slonopotamus, agreed in some respects	20:56
CableTwitch	Hmm. How would one replace the Nokia image/video with something else?	20:57
lcuk	but for something like a database processor or something as DocScrutinizer said that is using library functions mostly	20:57
ShadowJK	out of bounds checks are hardware-accelerated in C, they're called segmentation fault. Only problem is you usually get the signal ages after the out of bounds access took place ;D	20:57
lcuk	it wont matter	20:57
lcuk	because the binding glue takes up a fraction of the actual time	20:57
lcuk	ShadowJK, bounds checks in c still require a function call	20:57
lcuk	in a tight loop in c including function jumps cause all sorts of cache misses etc	20:58
*** bleeter has joined #maemo		20:58
* lcuk used to optimise for the 680ec20 with a 256byte cache :)		20:58
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: that's not exactly correct. adding two maxint won't cause a segfault	20:58
*** mece has joined #maemo		20:58
lcuk	slonopotamus, when you start doing processing in python itself it gets slow	20:59
lcuk	shedskin exists and afaik can produce a fairly optimal class representation from python code	20:59
slonopotamus	lcuk, that's what i said. python programs can only be fast if they're in c.	20:59
lcuk	for when you really need to optimise it down	20:59
*** dvaske_ has joined #maemo		21:00
DocScrutinizer	slonopotamus: honestly, what are we talking about?	21:00
lcuk	slonopotamus, thats been the same since the days of arexx	21:00
lcuk	i couldnt hope to process whole images using it	21:00
DocScrutinizer	slonopotamus: nobody thinks number crunching in python is a brilliant idea	21:00
lcuk	but passing the filenames/memory locations between apps	21:00
* ShadowJK once processed images in shell script ;-)		21:00
lcuk	to have them process it is simples	21:00
lcuk	lol ShadowJK	21:00
slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer, i just wonder why python is used in maemo at all	21:01
*** piggz has joined #maemo		21:01
DocScrutinizer	what's wrong with imgmagic?	21:01
lcuk	slonopotamus, go look in the archives for time forever	21:01
lcuk	shell scripts do the same thing	21:01
DocScrutinizer	slonopotamus: because it's easy to code, easy to maintain, and the "executables" are fairly small	21:01
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, speak for yourself, I have a 200kb ascii art comment header for every file	21:02
lcuk	:P	21:02
* ShadowJK once also processed .wav in quickbasic		21:02
* RST38h tends to disagree about 'easy to maintain'		21:02
DocScrutinizer	haha	21:02
*** troulouliou has joined #maemo		21:02
RST38h	A complex program in Python is rather messy	21:02
lcuk	a rather complex program in ANY LANGUAGE is rather messy	21:02
RST38h	especially when "object oriented" fetures are used	21:02
thp	Python is expressive! :)	21:02
troulouliou	hi , i can not find a clear solution for Error opening terminal: xterm when installing the sdk	21:03
lcuk	the key thing is "rather complex"	21:03
ShadowJK	I've only used python on Symbian, and that's because it was the only relatively sane thing available, that tells you how crazy it is	21:03
RST38h	lcuk: No, you can write relatively good code in C++ for example	21:03
RST38h	lcuk: (see qt)	21:03
lcuk	RST38h, you can write clear concise code in python too	21:03
RST38h	lcuk: But writing a lot of code in Python while keeping it readable is a difficult task	21:03
*** blackthorne` has joined #maemo		21:03
blackthorne`	hi	21:03
lcuk	not really	21:03
lcuk	its OO just the same	21:03
thp	RST38h: i tend to disagree	21:03
lcuk	thats coding style and expectations	21:03
lcuk	same as any project	21:03
blackthorne`	i'm looking for some extraction/compression util so that I can unzip files in my N900	21:03
*** hannesw has quit IRC		21:04
lcuk	blackthorne`, you tried installing unzip?	21:04
joga	the binary's called "miniunzip"	21:04
blackthorne`	I didn't find anything with that name	21:04
blackthorne`	to install, I mean	21:04
lcuk	http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip/	21:05
joga	zlib-bin provides it	21:05
lcuk	http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip-fm/	21:05
troulouliou	does anybody have suffer from Error opening terminal: xterm when installing the sdk ?	21:05
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: where to look for a few manual pages / docs / specs to understand how caller-ui is triggering a outbound call via telepathy (if that's a valid assumption at all)?	21:05
joga	oh so there's also a proper unzip for maemo eh	21:05
joga	:)	21:05
blackthorne`	joga: how can I install it?	21:05
joga	blackthorne`, with apt-get	21:05
lcuk	troulouliou, not sure	21:05
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, not sure	21:05
*** SomeOneBad has quit IRC		21:05
*** SWFu has quit IRC		21:05
joga	blackthorne` or enable extras-testing and install unzip	21:06
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		21:06
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, something is triggering call-ui on its own?	21:06
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: sorry?	21:06
lcuk	you want to understand how caller-ui is triggering a call	21:06
lcuk	is it triggering it without your input?	21:06
DocScrutinizer	yes	21:06
blackthorne`	I think I need root access to install that	21:07
lcuk	blackthorne`, unzip is already in maemo extras	21:07
DocScrutinizer	no, of course not. I want to understand what's happening when I hit green button	21:07
lcuk	no need for anything else	21:07
lcuk	its likely you will already have it installed	21:07
lcuk	oh crap	21:07
lcuk	misread	21:07
lcuk	you will need -testing	21:07
lcuk	joga, you can read :P	21:08
joga	lcuk yeah I learned it when I was a kid and have been enjoying it since	21:08
joga	:)	21:08
lcuk	\o/	21:08
lcuk	i guess i need to increase coffee intake	21:09
blackthorne`	lcuk: should I get maemo-extras from the package manager?	21:09
*** SpeedEvil1 has joined #maemo		21:09
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: I want to find a 'hook' to plumb some call mangling into normal call initiation, like rejecting particular call destinations etc, based on the number dialed	21:10
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, did i see an app to do call blocking etc recently	21:10
lcuk	ie, look at how it does it	21:10
DocScrutinizer	heh, sure that wasn't inbound?	21:11
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, idk?	21:11
DocScrutinizer	I didn't see any outbound	21:11
lcuk	never needed to block outbound locations before	21:11
lcuk	i have self control :P	21:11
DocScrutinizer	you never gave your phone to your kids :-P	21:11
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, tablet mode	21:12
DocScrutinizer	not good enough	21:12
lcuk	complete blocking of all cellmo activities	21:12
DocScrutinizer	not the plan	21:12
lcuk	you want a kid ux	21:12
DocScrutinizer	yep	21:12
lcuk	to allow calling mummy and daddy :)	21:12
DocScrutinizer	yep	21:12
lcuk	but not the 0898 premium number they saw on tv	21:12
DocScrutinizer	yep	21:12
lcuk	perfectly reasonable	21:13
*** troulouliou has quit IRC		21:13
DocScrutinizer	so how to intercept and mangle/modify/reject a initiate-call("4711") ?	21:14
lcuk	i think now it would be hacks, it might be more feasible now to look towards #meego and see if anything similar is in the spec	21:14
lcuk	and if not work towards getting it in?	21:14
* RST38h dials the mummies		21:14
lcuk	lol RST38h	21:14
lcuk	theres an scp about that :P	21:14
RST38h	number? =)	21:14
DocScrutinizer	I'm not interested in getting this nto an OS that never will come for N900 officially	21:15
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, so not interested in getting it into the subsystem that will be used on many devices for a foreseeable period?	21:15
*** njsf has joined #maemo		21:16
DocScrutinizer	I'd rather hack telepathy or dbus than wait for meego to come with it for free	21:16
lcuk	well you may just end up having to reimplement hacks later rather than looking now and seeing if its at least considered	21:17
lcuk	you have said about many things regarding maemo that you would have done them differently	21:17
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: I'm developing for present time, for present users having actual demands. Not for a future device with a future OS that might hit the end user 2012	21:17
lcuk	well, meego is being built now	21:17
DocScrutinizer	well, thanks for the info	21:18
lcuk	\o	21:18
*** FranzStrudel has joined #maemo		21:18
DocScrutinizer	tell me how many apps for meego you plan to sell until may 2011	21:19
thp	lcuk: we don't know much about meego handset, so yea - DocScrutinizer is right - better hack on maemo 5 stuff right now and care about meego when there is something to see :p	21:19
thp	+h	21:19
RST38h	thp: +1	21:20
RST38h	thp: Even the UI toolkit is mostly in limbo right now	21:20
thp	especially for low-level stuff.. seems like the app story is finally clearing with qml (although there i'm sorely missing qt components..)	21:20
RST38h	thp: well, it will only become clear when they standardize on the basic components	21:21
*** tackat has joined #maemo		21:21
*** florian has quit IRC		21:21
thp	yes, which will hopefully come in the form of cross-platform, reusable qt components for qml	21:21
RST38h	which will not be compatible with the traditional qwidget based widgets	21:22
RST38h	a well as meegotouch widgets based on the canvas	21:22
DocScrutinizer	anybody else here able to share some pointers to telepathy and how maemo(!) call-ui initiates a call?	21:22
thp	qml is nicer for rich interfaces than qwidget. and it has states and transitions. and javascript ;)	21:23
thp	s/rich/touch/	21:23
infobot	thp meant: qml is nicer for touch interfaces than qwidget. and it has states and transitions. and javascript ;)	21:23
thp	DocScrutinizer: maybe dbus-monitor + initiating a call manually gives some insight there?	21:24
*** njsf has left #maemo		21:25
RST38h	thp: ...and now, once we have loaded all this shit onboard, let us try taking offf...	21:25
DocScrutinizer	you bet that's what I did some 15min ago	21:25
Bash1	hey guys quick question, what is the full name for the N900 web browser?	21:25
*** BigRichie has joined #maemo		21:25
thp	DocScrutinizer: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS	21:25
SpeedEvil1	microb bash1	21:25
thp	RST38h: ;)	21:25
BigRichie	where i can ask about xchat irc client on maemo 5?	21:25
SpeedEvil1	BigRichie: Here works.	21:26
thp	don't ask where to ask to ask, just ask	21:26
DocScrutinizer	thp: this tells how to initiate a call, but it doesn't shed a light on how call-ui does it	21:26
* SpeedEvil1 is logged in using xchat.		21:26
Bash1	ok ty	21:26
thp	DocScrutinizer: sorry, don't know any specifics about that :) but be sure to add any info you can find to the wiki =)	21:27
*** NGNUton-B has joined #maemo		21:27
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		21:28
Jay_BEE	tmobile (usa) doesnt allow ident port so I'm unable to connect to irc.freenode.net using xchat irc on maemo5	21:28
DocScrutinizer	thp: from dbus-monitor I gather telepathy itself is emitting a signal when it received a request to establish a call. I don't see this request from call-ui to telepathy on dbus though	21:28
*** Funnyface2 has joined #maemo		21:28
thp	DocScrutinizer: MCE has sig_call_state_ind - maybe that's what you are looking for?	21:29
Jay_BEE	i understand there is a python script to enable sasl for xchat, but I'm unable to load it in maemo5	21:29
DocScrutinizer	thp: that's why I asked lcuk (a collabora employee and so supposed to maybe know a bit more about telepathy (c) collabora http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/)	21:29
*** Funnyface has quit IRC		21:29
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo		21:30
*** BigRichie has quit IRC		21:30
*** msanchez has quit IRC		21:30
*** tank-man has quit IRC		21:30
*** msanchez has joined #maemo		21:30
*** BigRichie has joined #maemo		21:31
*** johnsq has joined #maemo		21:31
johnsq	Hi	21:31
*** tank-man has joined #maemo		21:31
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, if every person in every company had to know everything the world would be a cool place	21:32
Venemo	BigRichie: what about it?	21:32
*** kthomas_vh has quit IRC		21:33
*** DocScrutinizer-8 has quit IRC		21:33
BigRichie	i want to change the color of text...	21:33
*** l13tl3 has quit IRC		21:33
*** TeringTuby has joined #maemo		21:33
BigRichie	notice command text...	21:33
mikki-kun	BigRichie: the one in xterm? top bar --> settings	21:34
*** Dregs has quit IRC		21:34
BigRichie	i dont know which one it is in the preferences->colors	21:34
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: that's why I used the terms "maybe" and "a bit". Any pointer (except to meego and next years' revolutionary new things for users) whould have been appreciated	21:34
DocScrutinizer	users are asking me for an according app for maemo on N900, not for meego on N9	21:35
*** CutMeOwnThroat has joined #maemo		21:35
DocScrutinizer	and no, I'm not doing this for the mere fun of it	21:36
Venemo	DocScrutinizer51: users are asking you for what app?	21:36
mikki-kun	notice text?	21:37
BigRichie	yea... when u use notice command for me can barely see the text	21:38
mikki-kun	X Terminal --> Font (leftone changes foreground, right one background)	21:38
BigRichie	i can i ment	21:39
blackthorne`	bye	21:39
pablo2	N900 does have support to QtMultimediaKit 1.1 ??	21:39
*** blackthorne` has quit IRC		21:39
BigRichie	there is mIRC colors numbered 1-15 and local colors numbered 16-31...	21:40
BigRichie	using xchat irc client	21:41
BigRichie	i couldnt find anything from web for maemo 5 os xchat app... only pc os's	21:42
mikki-kun	ahhhh.... oh, that one puzzled me as well previously... i changed to irssi and it works like a charm	21:42
mikki-kun	bu it should work the same as on pc	21:42
BigRichie	mhh...	21:42
mikki-kun	it is a port, hence it should be having the same layout	21:42
BigRichie	mhh	21:42
*** lolloo has joined #maemo		21:43
BigRichie	there is guides to change themes... like u know its abit different looking on maemo then on pc	21:43
Venemo	BigRichie: you could try Communi for an IRC client, but it is not yet fully complete for Maemo 5	21:43
BigRichie	that text i can barely see...	21:44
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: see, in meego TSG et al there seems little interest in my suggestions, and though it might be fun to help building a better meego and avoiding there all the shortcommings we see in maemo, it's still a rather starving art to engage there.	21:44
BigRichie	and i would like to change the color of it... :/	21:44
*** wqapol has quit IRC		21:45
*** DocScrutinizer-8 has joined #maemo		21:45
*** DocScrutinizer-8 has joined #maemo		21:45
*** wqapol has joined #maemo		21:45
*** nicu has joined #maemo		21:45
*** larsivi has joined #maemo		21:46
*** TeringTuby has quit IRC		21:47
*** dneary has joined #maemo		21:48
lcuk	well DocScrutinizer best I can suggest is ask on the ML since its seemingly not a standard operation	21:49
DocScrutinizer	thanks	21:50
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo		21:50
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo		21:50
*** digitalstimulus has joined #maemo		21:53
*** diegohcg has quit IRC		21:54
*** CableTwitch has quit IRC		21:54
*** xnt14[laptop] has joined #maemo		21:55
*** sar3th is now known as sar3th\|away		21:55
*** msanchez has quit IRC		21:55
*** RevdKathy has joined #maemo		21:55
*** tilppis has joined #maemo		21:57
*** sar3th\|away is now known as sar3th		21:57
*** dneary has quit IRC		21:57
*** felipec has quit IRC		22:00
Venemo	hello RevdKathy	22:00
RevdKathy	Hello Venemo	22:00
Venemo	I read your blog yesterday about the MeeGo stuff	22:01
RevdKathy	How are you?	22:01
RevdKathy	Ahh :)	22:01
Venemo	well, thanks for asking :)	22:01
Venemo	how are you?	22:01
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		22:01
RevdKathy	Not bad, thanks. Tough day at work, but manageable. And I finished my chores - came to play on IRC and it's quiet here	22:02
RevdKathy	Nipping afk to put the rubbish out - brb	22:02
GAN900	Ssh, we're sleeping.	22:02
GAN900	Also: Thanksgiving	22:02
RevdKathy	Sorry GAN900 didn't mean to disturb you from your turkey-induced somulence	22:03
Venemo	RevdKathy: how was the the MeeGo conference?	22:04
RevdKathy	Venemo: amazing, brilliant, terrific... quite beyond description	22:05
*** hannesw has quit IRC		22:05
peb_	RevdKathy, is there any documentation/scripts online available?	22:06
RevdKathy	peb_ about what?	22:06
peb_	RevdKathy, the conference. Normally they have stuff online ..	22:07
*** Flipi\|BNC is now known as Flipi		22:07
RevdKathy	The blogs are being co-ordinated here: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010#Conference_Wrap-up	22:08
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		22:08
RevdKathy	I think the various talks and slides are going up slowly	22:08
Venemo	RevdKathy: I wish I could go, but I couldn't	22:09
RevdKathy	Shame. It was amazing	22:09
Venemo	RevdKathy: so I'm a bit envious about the people who could :)	22:09
RevdKathy	peb_ : vids here: http://conference2010.meego.com/program/session-videos	22:09
RevdKathy	I can understand that Venemo. I was really, really lucky	22:09
Venemo	yeah :)	22:10
RevdKathy	I don't deserve to be so lucky. I had the best time.	22:11
Venemo	why not?	22:11
Venemo	sure you deserved it :)	22:12
RevdKathy	Well, I don't develop or anything. Just an ordinary bear, really	22:12
RevdKathy	I spent most of the time at the help-desk	22:12
Venemo	what's wrong with that?	22:12
*** wqapol has quit IRC		22:13
peb_	RevdKathy, thanks for the link -- also some kind of help and well worth for you beeing there ...	22:13
RevdKathy	I feel I ought to do more - but I'm a bit old for learning to code now!	22:13
*** wqapol has joined #maemo		22:13
RevdKathy	Thanks peb_	22:13
kerio	RevdKathy: never old enuff	22:13
RevdKathy	kerio: you think I could argue I'm too young to learn code? At twice the age of mst devs?	22:14
kerio	"i'm too old" is just an excuse	22:14
*** frade has joined #maemo		22:14
RevdKathy	But Conference was just amazing	22:14
kerio	RevdKathy: http://bit.ly/40CBHF READ THIS	22:14
kerio	it could be your last chance!	22:15
RevdKathy	kerio: that's true. I think to be honest I don't have time or quite know where to start.	22:15
Venemo	RevdKathy: well I met people who are older than you and are still developers	22:15
kerio	start with that!	22:15
RevdKathy	kerio: thank you! That's brilliant. It will give me somewhere to start.	22:15
trumee	Where are the slides, http://conference2010.meego.com/session/meego-n900-past-present-and-future ?	22:15
Venemo	RevdKathy: my colleague at my current job is a 63-year-old man whose hobby is running marathon, and longer distances	22:16
*** FIQ\|n900 has quit IRC		22:16
Venemo	RevdKathy: age is no excuse for not learning new things :)	22:16
RevdKathy	Venemo: people have strange hobbies. There's a woman in my dance class in her 60s with two artificial knees and a spinal injury	22:16
*** pupnik has joined #maemo		22:17
pupnik	can we run maemo on samsung 'bada' linux phones?	22:17
RevdKathy	Venemo: I agree with that. Just not sure code is the right thing for me. I finished my Masters this year, and was taking a year out before debating a doctorate ;)	22:17
*** diegohcg has joined #maemo		22:17
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo		22:17
kerio	great, use that year to learn some coding	22:18
*** croppa has joined #maemo		22:18
RST38h	'bada' is not really real linux, acccording to raster	22:18
RevdKathy	I will - at least I will get some idea of it.	22:18
kerio	it really helps a lot to decompose problems in smaller and smaller problems	22:18
RevdKathy	Part of my problem with learning code is that I'm the sort of learner who likes a teacher. And I couldn't find a course in the county.	22:19
Venemo	RevdKathy: well... coding is not the right thing for me either, but it is a nice hobby :)	22:19
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo		22:19
RevdKathy	venemo: the important thing is that you enjoy it.	22:19
RST38h	Kathy: No substitute for US community colleges in the US?	22:19
RST38h	in the UK, sorry	22:19
RevdKathy	RST38h: I looked at all the community colleges and there was nothing on computing other than the basic certificates in 'how to operate windoze'	22:20
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC		22:20
*** onen\|openBmap has joined #maemo		22:20
*** NooBmonk3y has joined #maemo		22:20
RevdKathy	It was rather depressing	22:20
*** sergio__ has quit IRC		22:20
RevdKathy	Hiya NooBmonk3y!	22:20
NooBmonk3y	loli turn up and kathy says it's depressing. lol!	22:20
NooBmonk3y	eveeeening	22:20
RST38h	Kathy: this world is going back to the dark ages	22:21
* NooBmonk3y waves at alls!		22:21
RevdKathy	RST38h I'm not sure Cornwall ever left!	22:21
RST38h	Which is good for my job security, actually.	22:21
NooBmonk3y	i just spent 2.5 hours battling tescos, and managed to get 14 full bags up 2 flights of stairs in 1 go without braking one! yay! .... arms are bugegred!	22:21
RevdKathy	Our NHS It department don't actually know how to do anything with a computer other than reformat it.	22:21
*** Rhoruns has joined #maemo		22:21
NooBmonk3y	Kathy - tell me about it!	22:22
NooBmonk3y	Lisa logged a job saying she couldnt send emails on her blackberry, 45 mins later, no response, she tweeted me, resolved in 5 mins lol	22:22
RevdKathy	Well, YOUR NHS It department have you, so clearly they're more knowledgeable!	22:22
Venemo	RevdKathy: well if you like, I can help you	22:22
NooBmonk3y	Kathy, they dont ;)	22:22
NooBmonk3y	i work for the customer ;)	22:22
RevdKathy	Thanks Venemo! If I get stuck, I'll be in touch. :)	22:22
*** troulouliou has joined #maemo		22:22
NooBmonk3y	Kathy, hows the ideapad?	22:23
RevdKathy	I had a PC with a dire case of pop-ups. The guy for IT came, and having established I'd run a couple of spyware removers and a couple of virus checkers said it would have to be reformatted. :(	22:23
NooBmonk3y	lol!	22:23
RST38h	Which is a sensible decision	22:24
troulouliou	hi i m actually installing the sdk , could anybody explain me the basic steps to install cmake on both ARM and X86 scratchbox install	22:24
maybeHere	nuke it from orbit etc pp	22:24
troulouliou	after the installation	22:24
* MohammadAG stabs segfaults		22:24
RST38h	Because using HijackThis correctly requires expertise most IT people do not have	22:24
RevdKathy	The idea-pad is lovely. Only 2 things I'd like it to have - and only one of those is critical	22:24
NooBmonk3y	:P	22:25
RevdKathy	I guess I expect someone employed to maintain the IT to know more about it than I do.	22:25
RST38h	well they do	22:25
RevdKathy	Same as I expect my Doctor to know more than I do :p	22:25
RST38h	just not enough to remove a virus	22:25
Venemo	RevdKathy: do you have pics?	22:25
RevdKathy	I posted a few on my scrap book, and there were some in my blog post	22:26
RevdKathy	But I didn't take many pics - and when I got home I found they were mostly of pints of Guinness...	22:26
Venemo	RevdKathy: well I didn't see any in the blog	22:27
RevdKathy	Go through the blog on the conference and click the links (I am too mean to pay for the LJ that allows embedding)	22:27
RevdKathy	and there's a couple of my scrapbook	22:27
RevdKathy	http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1646518299/just-testing-the-resizing-on-the-gimp-if-this	22:28
Venemo	RevdKathy: maybe not talking about the same blog entry? I haven't found links here :( http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/62299.html	22:28
*** troulouliou has left #maemo		22:29
RevdKathy	Venemo: http://revdkathy.livejournal.com/61968.html	22:29
RevdKathy	http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1598577599/this-is-lcuk-who-doesnt-drink-guinness-unless	22:29
RevdKathy	http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1590571557/the-bear-working-in-x-terminal-ive-crashed-meego	22:30
*** calvaris has quit IRC		22:30
lcuk	oi! i only picked that up to take a photo	22:30
kerio	OMFG PURPLE	22:30
lcuk	i got my own a minute later	22:30
RevdKathy	http://revdkathy.tumblr.com/post/1576025944/the-first-of-the-conference	22:30
kerio	i didn't know tech conferences were beer-based	22:30
RevdKathy	lcuk: you picked it up and took a bloody great swig out of it!	22:31
lcuk	kerio, the meegoconf ran on guinness	22:31
RevdKathy	lcuk: I swear you only did it to keep me from drinking too much	22:31
kerio	so that's why they kept pulseaudio!	22:31
lcuk	what good it did, you still got whisked away into the moshpit :P	22:31
Venemo	RevdKathy, so this is the thing everyone's been talkin about? http://www.revdkathy.co.uk/meegoconf/08.jpg	22:31
RevdKathy	Venemo: yes - that's the ideapad	22:32
MohammadAG	cool tablet, windows logo ruins it :P	22:32
kerio	omg that trackpad looks awful	22:32
RevdKathy	I should have sat the bear over the windows logo!	22:33
RevdKathy	The trackpad has a very odd texture - I find it sets my teeth on edge	22:33
RevdKathy	So I have a pink mini-mouse attached instead	22:33
*** benh has joined #maemo		22:33
Venemo	heh	22:33
MohammadAG	who's the guy in the screen's reflection, lcuk?	22:33
RevdKathy	lcuk: i did not 'get whisked away' - I went of my own accord!	22:34
lcuk	MohammadAG, thats texrat i believe	22:34
lcuk	RevdKathy, lol	22:34
RevdKathy	No, that's not lcuk. Could possibly be texrat	22:34
RevdKathy	Hard to be sure from that angle	22:34
pupnik	you have to go to the x-series to get an anti-glare display and a trackpoint	22:35
pupnik	but it's great having a device just for meego	22:35
*** Free_maN has quit IRC		22:35
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo		22:36
pupnik	RevdKathy / lcuk - you guys see an accelerated meego running in a vm yet?	22:36
*** tilppis has quit IRC		22:36
pupnik	(that is texrat in the reflection)	22:36
*** asj_ has joined #maemo		22:37
*** Mohammad- has joined #maemo		22:37
RevdKathy	pupnik: I haven't done anything clever with it. Just set it up and used it as an end-user. Several things were not easy for an ordinary user to do (so not ready for general release yet)	22:37
RevdKathy	But bar a few bugs, i find it pretty stable	22:38
*** xnt14 has joined #maemo		22:38
pupnik	RevdKathy: well not all of us are ready to buy a seperate device for it	22:39
inz	RevdCathy, can you get Guinness in a plastic pint? That seems really wrong to me.	22:39
RevdKathy	No, that's fair enough. I wouldn't have bought one	22:39
*** jrocha has quit IRC		22:39
RevdKathy	inz yes, and it was very wrong.	22:40
pupnik	lol	22:40
pupnik	btw did the guinness taste different/better in dublin?	22:40
jacekowski	yeah better	22:40
jacekowski	still like crap	22:40
jacekowski	i don't like that kind of beer	22:40
*** MohammadAG is now known as MohammadAG_		22:40
*** Mohammad- is now known as MohammadAG		22:40
pupnik	how about someone's opinion who likes guinness? :)	22:40
* kerio doesn't drink		22:40
* inz neither		22:40
* alterego would really like it if one of those ir apps could perform a semi auto-matic binary search.		22:41
*** tackat has quit IRC		22:41
*** xnt14[laptop] has quit IRC		22:41
GAN900	pupnik, better than in the US.	22:41
alterego	Think I might work on it myself post Columbus v1	22:41
GAN900	The Bud in the hacker lounge was a nice taste of home, though. g	22:42
*** l13tl3 has joined #maemo		22:42
RevdKathy	I thought it was better than Guinness at home, yes	22:42
RevdKathy	Though it's hard to be objective when you are in such excellent company	22:43
RevdKathy	and lcuk drinks half your pint in one swig	22:43
lcuk	the biggest guinness difference is from the tap vs from can/bottle	22:43
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC		22:43
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo		22:43
*** MohammadAG_ has quit IRC		22:44
*** diegohcg has quit IRC		22:44
RevdKathy	GAN900 Ugh. Yuckies.	22:44
*** poutsi has joined #maemo		22:45
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		22:46
pupnik	"MeeGo simulator and emulator solve the OpenGL performance problem by making OpenGL rendered by GPU in host off-screen buffer..." http://conference2010.meego.com/session/opengl-acceleration-meego-simulator-and-emulator	22:46
pupnik	finally a meeGo i can run in a VM?	22:46
poutsi	hey, can anyone shed some light on python packaging? what's up with postinst scripts that rm -rf dirs in /usr/lib/python*/site-packages with comments that say it's a "fix for old packages not managing pyc files"?	22:46
*** florian has joined #maemo		22:47
*** florian has joined #maemo		22:47
*** Venemo has quit IRC		22:47
pupnik	poutsi: that sounds like an optification step	22:47
*** Venemo has joined #maemo		22:47
poutsi	possibly, I just noticed it since it breaks mercurial	22:48
poutsi	ie. mercurial-common first installs its .py files there, then the postinst of mercurial rm -rf's them	22:48
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		22:48
kerio	hahaha	22:48
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo		22:48
poutsi	I'm just curious about what a package "managing it's pyc files" means	22:49
*** dvaske_ has quit IRC		22:51
alterego	.pyc files are generated by the Python interpreter for modules imported by scripts, they're the compiled modules in bytecode format.	22:52
* RST38h looking for something new and exciting		22:52
poutsi	alterego, I know that	22:52
poutsi	what I don't understand it is how it relates to .deb packages	22:53
*** RevdKathy has quit IRC		22:53
alterego	So when a package is installed, it doesn't know about .pyc files, by defauly, because they're weren't in the package, they were generated after the fact.	22:53
alterego	wow, that was an awful sentence.	22:54
alterego	The .pyc files aren't in the deb, so apt/dpkg doesn't know about them. therefore can't manage them, it's up to the package maintainer to remove .pyc files and any other generated files postrm.	22:55
poutsi	yeah, that I'd understand, but this is in the postinst script, not postrm :)	22:55
alterego	How is that not blatantly obvious?	22:55
*** RevdKathy has joined #maemo		22:56
alterego	Well, that's someone probably trying to fix an issue with a packagde they crewed up the first time?	22:56
alterego	screwed ...	22:56
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC		22:56
lcuk	RevdKathy, 16	22:56
RevdKathy	Bah - damned thing locked up on me and I ended up losing a half-filed bug	22:57
alterego	lcuk: do you wanna be one of my beta testers next week?	22:57
poutsi	might be, and it's obviously a bug and I already filed it as such :)	22:57
alterego	No point in filing a bug against an old package.	22:57
poutsi	it's just that it seems like such a pattern and I'm trying to nail down the logic	22:57
alterego	Who knows :)	22:57
*** dos1 has quit IRC		23:00
pupnik	RST38h: a kevlar space elevator to the moon would be exciting	23:00
RST38h	pupnik: Nah, the Moon is just a huge dusty marble =)	23:01
*** BigRichie has quit IRC		23:01
*** frade has quit IRC		23:01
*** ZogG has joined #maemo		23:02
*** poutsi has left #maemo		23:03
digitalstimulus	does anyone know a way around the problem with n810 OS2008 file manager where "shared folders" sometimes appears and sometimes doesn't. Is there any way to force a scan of network shares?	23:06
*** etrunko has quit IRC		23:06
jacekowski	it's upnp shit	23:06
*** marciom_ has quit IRC		23:06
jacekowski	and upnp is shit by design	23:06
alterego	It's not shit, just overly complicated.	23:07
alterego	As much as I really, don't want to have this discussion again. ^_^	23:08
digitalstimulus	it seems that once I open the file manager and network shares do not show up, they never will until I reboot the device, connect to the network, wait, then try again	23:08
alterego	Strange, I've never had a problem with it though I only use it when I'm at my parents' ...	23:09
digitalstimulus	I have read online about other people having similar problems and that it is hit or miss. I haven't found a way to force a scan for network shares to circumvent the problem	23:09
*** fecub has joined #maemo		23:10
alterego	hrm, well, it all goes through gupnp, so maybe look for ways to coerse that?	23:10
digitalstimulus	thanks much, that's a start :)	23:12
alterego	I did do a bit of work with gupnp a while back, but it's a rather distant memory.	23:13
*** larsivi has quit IRC		23:14
*** pH5 has quit IRC		23:14
*** nox- has joined #maemo		23:14
*** Muiltr has joined #maemo		23:15
digitalstimulus	is the n900 worth getting as a standalone, non-phone device over the n810?	23:15
* alterego contemplates adding a animation toggle option to conserve cpu ..		23:15
*** FredrIQ has joined #maemo		23:15
*** akeripper has joined #maemo		23:16
nox-	moin	23:17
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo		23:17
alterego	aloha	23:17
MohammadAG	alterego, your app uses the GPS, I wouldn't be worrying about the CPU being the main thing that rapes the battery ;)	23:18
*** mst has joined #maemo		23:18
*** FredrIQ has quit IRC		23:20
*** bass has joined #maemo		23:20
nox-	moin alterego	23:20
*** mairas_ has quit IRC		23:20
pupnik	http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter Standing Up for your Rights. How to pass TSA without suffereing sexual assault or Illegal search.	23:20
*** viggi has quit IRC		23:22
*** trbs has quit IRC		23:22
*** bbee has quit IRC		23:22
*** T_X has quit IRC		23:22
*** T_X has joined #maemo		23:22
*** karbas has quit IRC		23:22
*** karbas has joined #maemo		23:23
*** trbs has joined #maemo		23:23
*** bbee has joined #maemo		23:23
*** wqapol has quit IRC		23:24
*** setanta has quit IRC		23:24
*** akeripper has quit IRC		23:25
RevdKathy	goodnight all	23:25
*** RevdKathy has quit IRC		23:26
*** viggi has joined #maemo		23:26
*** lizardo has quit IRC		23:27
*** zap has joined #maemo		23:27
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC		23:28
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		23:29
*** FIQ\|n900 has joined #maemo		23:29
*** edisson has quit IRC		23:29
*** davyg has quit IRC		23:29
*** ZogG has quit IRC		23:30
*** ZogG has joined #maemo		23:31
*** NooBmonk3y has quit IRC		23:33
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC		23:33
*** mairas_ has joined #maemo		23:34
*** FIQ has quit IRC		23:34
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo		23:35
*** baraujo has quit IRC		23:37
*** fiferboy has quit IRC		23:39
* mst fails to figure out which repository to enable to get gcc		23:40
*** Muiltr has quit IRC		23:40
*** bass has quit IRC		23:43
*** Funnyface has joined #maemo		23:43
*** woodong50_______ has joined #maemo		23:45
*** pablo2 has quit IRC		23:46
*** Funnyface2 has quit IRC		23:46
*** benh has quit IRC		23:46
*** Bash1 has quit IRC		23:46
*** fiferboy has joined #maemo		23:47
alterego	MohammadAG: that depends how you use it, I got 3 hours of logs with only one level drop on the battery indicator, and I was listening to m00sics.	23:48
MohammadAG	heh	23:48
MohammadAG	brb, hot swapping battery	23:48
alterego	which is fine, for data logging, but I want it to be usable for hiking as a handheld gps, which means it needs to have a fairly good usability statistic :P	23:49
*** muelli has joined #maemo		23:49
*** murrayc has joined #maemo		23:51
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: zooming font size in xchat would be exciting	23:52
jacekowski	i'm logging 24/7 on mains	23:52
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: making context menus work on chan treview is probably less exciting but still worth a look	23:53
DocScrutinizer	tree-view*	23:54
*** swc\|666 has joined #maemo		23:54
MohammadAG	hmm?	23:54
MohammadAG	they work for me	23:54
DocScrutinizer	in tree-view mode for chan tabs?	23:54
MohammadAG	on a second look, they don't o_O	23:55
DocScrutinizer	maybe they got fixed during last 5 months, never checked it again	23:55
MohammadAG	I wonder if it's because it's a custom widget	23:56
DocScrutinizer	mhm	23:56
jacekowski	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLIR-I5-Thermal-Imaging-Camera-Infrared-Imager-853540-/380288572065?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item588af71aa1	23:58
*** l13tl3 has quit IRC		23:58
jacekowski	why this stuff is so expensive	23:58
DocScrutinizer	and for sure a xchat with python scripting support would excite me :-)	23:58
*** igagis has quit IRC		23:59
*** guysoft42 has quit IRC		23:59
DocScrutinizer	I guess we could get a version with python support and dependencies, as alternative to standard pkg	23:59
DocScrutinizer	let's call it... errr, xchat-python ?	23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!