IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-09-22

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MohammadAG51does the N900 support C#?00:05
tripzeromono is not in the repo iirc00:06
tripzerobut imho, would be cool if it was...00:07
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Noobmonk3yMohammadAG,  yes'ish00:14
Noobmonk3yi hear00:14
Noobmonk3ynot that i would actually know ;)00:14
fnordianslipMohammadAG51: I've found my USB F/F adapter.  You still need something?00:14
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lcukMohammadAG51, there is a mono compiler00:16
lcukbut to use it00:16
MohammadAGfnordianslip, nope, just keep it close, you'll need it in a few days :P00:16
lcukyou have to add new things into scratchbox00:16
fnordianslipokey dokey :)00:17
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* MohammadAG has a suggestion, please consider it, pretty please? :P00:47
MohammadAGIsrael for next year's conference! :P00:47
kerioyou mean palestine?00:48
MohammadAGindifferent tbh00:49
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MohammadAGbut you're more likely to hear rumors about being shot there than in IL :P00:49
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Malin_anyone using the N900 in Norway with netcom, and now how to recive mms without opening via the mms-reader on netcom's webpage?00:59
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lcukhmm Malin_01:02
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lcukwere the defaults already available on the APN config?01:02
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SpeedEvilfmms01:04
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SpeedEvilmalin01:04
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lcukMalin_ even.  SpeedEvil hmm I hadn't considered that fmms isn't actually on everyones machines yet!01:06
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keriofmms is not, nor it will be, on my n90001:09
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lcukkerio, can I ask why?01:10
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keriobecause MMSes are just a way for phone companies to make even *more* money by transporting bits01:11
keriocrappy specs, crappy support on most phones, stupid restrictions on most carriers, and overall absolutely *no* advantage over emails01:12
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lcukkerio, it has many advantages and the restrictions are there based on historical stuff, every codebase is the same01:12
keriowhat advantages?01:13
lcukbut the power of sending a 0 config (normally!) photograph to someone person to person is immense01:13
keriomy phone company sends me a sms when i get an email on the associated email address01:13
keriolcuk: except that most people don't have MMSes configured01:13
kerioand won't care01:13
lcukmy phone company sends me a photo when someonesends it me01:13
lcukand have done on every phone I have used01:13
lcuki have never gotten an email on my phone01:14
lcukwell, outside gmail01:14
lcukmy mum hasnt got email configured01:14
kerio[insert ur mom joke]01:14
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lcukkerio, grow up01:17
kerioi don't want to grow up :(01:17
lcukreasonable enough, does your mum have email setup on her phone?01:19
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keriolcuk: well, no01:29
keriobut she has a crappy phone anyway01:29
kerionot worth watching photos on such a tiny screen01:29
kerioplus i'm not sure her MMSes work01:29
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lcukkerio, try it, surprise her and send a pic of you smiling :)01:45
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Kevvy9Click ------> #tdwiki-voteout <------ click it01:55
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Malin_lcuk: I have fmms on my phone, so I am pretty sure I can send mms, but I have not sucseeded in reciving one yet02:15
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Malin_I hear someone says I have to be disconnected from wifi, to recive mmms02:23
Malin_ooops, mms02:23
Malin_But it late here, so I have to go to bed :)02:24
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massoudHi there late :)02:37
massoudwhat should be the best/nicest way to sync my n900 w/ my debian ?02:37
kfxsync what02:39
massoudsync agenda/contacts/messages02:40
massoudkfx : i am using kontact/kde on my debian02:40
kfxmassoud: that has been the subject of a kde google summer of code project two years running02:41
jarkkomI guess you could make both sync to google calendar02:41
kfxthey almost got it working last year and this year they started from scratch02:41
jarkkomexcept it keeps on breaking in mysterious ways02:41
kfxso currently yes you need some form of middleware02:41
jarkkomactual calendar database is just sqlite database though, so hacking that isn't too difficult02:42
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massoudkfx: any middleware working in the meantime ?02:42
massoudthanks for this update on the g summer of code info02:43
kfxI've had reasonable results using sogo,syncevolution,and kontact or thunderbird02:43
kfxbut sogo is not easy to set up02:43
kfxyou might try using scheduleworld or some such, or if you have no objections to google just sync to their stuff on both ends02:44
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massoudkfx: so i should try sogo, syncrevolution and kontact ?02:46
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kfxmassoud: you need to be very good at configuring software on linux for sogo to be your solution02:47
kfxit requres installing a large-ish gnustep software stack, then sogo, then a funambol connector with a correctly configured tomcat instance02:47
kfxI used centos to simplify things a bit, but it is not a trivial task02:47
kfxthen you have to manually configure syncevolution the old-fashioned "create a million text files" method02:48
kfxand also spend a lot of time praying02:48
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massoudkfx: wouah funambol + tomcat :)02:50
kfxfunambol ships tomcat, that's how it talks to the world by default02:50
kfxafter several days of trying to cram a wildcard cert plus intermediate certs into tomcat I just proxied the goddamn thing behind apache :/02:51
luke-jrlol02:51
massoudlol02:51
kfxI hate just about every aspect of java02:52
kfxbut the keystore is phenomenally retarded02:52
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fredrinN900how to get xchat on maemo to run in fullscreen?03:50
pupniklast one i used didn't support that fredrinN90003:52
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fredrinN900strange03:52
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fredrinN900what clients do people use on their n900?03:53
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pupnikirssi here fredrinN90003:55
pupnikxchat is very popular though03:55
SpeedEvilxchat here04:00
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SpeedEvilctrl-enter04:01
luke-jrI wish there was a Quassel client build04:01
SpeedEvilWould be nice.04:04
SpeedEvilWith a quassel-text-client too04:04
luke-jrpfft text clients04:04
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n900evilWhat was the alternative to camkeyd?04:14
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fredrinN900speedevil: thanks04:16
fredrinN900and tab?04:16
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SpeedEvilI believe the default binding is alt-rightarrow04:16
fredrinN900for nick autocomplete?04:16
SpeedEvilerr04:17
SpeedEvilalt-space04:17
SpeedEvilshift space even04:17
SpeedEvilI havre it set as shift-rightarrow04:17
luke-jrmakes you wonder what idiot designed the NIT keyboards04:17
luke-jrto omit the tab key04:17
fredrinN900SpeedEvil: nice04:17
fredrinN900true04:17
luke-jrpersonally, I mapped the Fullscreen key to tab on my N810, but n900 does't hae it :/04:18
TermanaDesireluke-jr: what other mobile device includes a tab kettle?04:18
TermanaDesireKey*04:18
SpeedEvilsettings -> advanced -> keyboard04:18
TermanaDesireTab kettle as well though04:18
luke-jrTermanaDesire: all the Sharp handhelds?04:18
luke-jrSpeedEvil: ?04:18
luke-jrSpeedEvil: the Settings app can make the N900 keyboard grow?04:19
SpeedEvilyes04:19
TermanaDesireluke-jr: yeah and how outdated are those things now?04:19
SpeedEvilYou set it right, and an IBM clicky keyboard pops out.04:19
* fredrinN900 is happy with nickcomplete and fullscreen04:19
luke-jrTermanaDesire: quite. Hence my $800 bounty toward a good handheld.04:19
SpeedEvilBe careful you don't enable this in a pocket04:19
fredrinN900and ctrl + backspace for multitaks04:20
TermanaDesireSpeedEvil: :p so that's the n900's Easter egg04:20
SpeedEvilyeah.04:20
SpeedEvil14 people have been killed by activating the church organ keyboard.04:22
fredrinN900:)04:22
TermanaDesireAnd you know what the n900's Christmas present is don't you?04:22
fredrinN900pr1.304:23
TermanaDesireBME04:23
* TermanaDesire cackles04:23
fredrinN900eh?04:24
* fredrinN900 want gnome cheese photobooth for the front cam to take party pics :D04:25
fredrinN900even for the back cam04:26
fredrinN900what do people use the front cam for?04:26
luke-jr04:27
luke-jrwhich side do you consider front?04:28
TermanaDesireLol04:28
luke-jrI use the 5 MP side for taking pictures and videos04:28
luke-jrand the VGA side for video calls04:28
fredrinN900vga04:28
TermanaDesireluke-jr is obviously our resident nut case04:28
luke-jr04:29
fredrinN900i've only used it for vidcalls myself04:29
fredrinN900both gmail and skype vidcalls04:29
TermanaDesireluke-jr: how could you not know what he meant by front?04:29
asjTermanaDesire: he's very pedantic04:30
luke-jrTermanaDesire: when I hold my N900 in the car, the 5 MP side is in the front.04:30
luke-jrwhen it sits flat on my desk, the VGA side is front04:30
fredrinN900would like to have a virtual cam aswell so i could show pics or just stream music over skype04:30
fredrinN900be remote dj :D04:30
luke-jr04:30
TermanaDesireluke-jr: I see, so you view the screen by looking at it in the mirror?04:30
fredrinN900on skypeparties04:31
luke-jrfredrinN900: if you're going to be a remote DJ, just use MPD04:31
luke-jrTermanaDesire: no04:31
asjTermanaDesire: 2 mirrors otherwise it's backwards ;)04:31
johnxfredrinN900, huh, that's kind of an interesting idea04:31
fredrinN900nah, more people have skype installed04:31
luke-jr04:31
luke-jrno, they don't.04:31
luke-jrmore people have Windows Media Player installed04:31
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luke-jrwhich AFAIK can stream Shoutcast fine04:31
fredrinN900webcamstudio is nice on ubuntu04:31
fredrinN900luke-jr: true04:32
johnxwould be cool to have a 'screencast' virtual input for v4l04:32
fredrinN900a vloopback driver exist04:32
johnxmight not do the trick for video very well though04:32
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luke-jrwould be nice if we could get a Skype that was compatible with something other than Windows tho04:33
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johnxluke-jr, eh? our skype can't call linux/mac?04:34
luke-jrjohnx: not with video04:34
fredrinN900yes04:34
wmaronelinux/mac clients are out of date04:34
johnxugh04:34
johnxthat's pretty lame04:34
wmaroneyup04:34
fredrinN900eh, lame04:35
fredrinN900if true04:35
luke-jrno good reason for the limitation etiher afaik04:35
luke-jrjust a codec mismatch04:35
wmaroneluke-jr: nope, but only skype can fix it04:35
luke-jrN900 probably has the right codec, but Skype won't use it04:35
luke-jrwmarone: Nokia can't fix the N900 to support the old codec?04:35
wmaronedoubtful04:35
wmaroneI suspect it's entirely something within the skype libraries04:36
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luke-jr:/04:36
wmaroneeither on the N900 or in the linux/mac clients04:36
luke-jrI'm sure on the Linux/Mac cleints04:36
luke-jrN900 it would seem Nokia has code for04:36
wmaroneseem04:36
luke-jrit'd be outright irresponsible for them to ship a blob they don't have code or04:37
luke-jrfor*04:37
wmaronenot really, i'd be more surprised if that wasn't common practice04:37
johnxluke-jr, you know they do that for other things anyways. why is it surprising?04:37
luke-jrjohnx: do they?04:47
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johnxluke-jr, uhm, the SGX drivers for one?04:59
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luke-jrjohnx: Nokia doesn't have the code for those⁇04:59
johnxthey might. I'd bet they actually don't05:00
luke-jr05:00
luke-jrthere should be a law against selling a product you can't vouch for05:00
johnxso if they didn't design every chip in the device, they couldn't sell it?05:01
luke-jrif they don't have the designs for it ;p05:01
wmaronenothing would get done05:01
wmaronecertainly an improvement05:01
johnxluke-jr, no more trade secrets?05:02
luke-jrwmarone: more like all of a sudden everyone goes open source05:02
wmaronewell, no05:02
luke-jrwmarone: they wouldn't have a choice.05:02
luke-jrjohnx: trade secrets are … trade05:02
luke-jrnot design05:02
wmaroneluke-jr: do tell, why would anyone put in the effort to design a circuit if they could sell it once?05:02
luke-jrwmarone: nobody said they could only sell it once05:03
wmaronesure05:03
wmaroneevery corporation interested in the bottom line05:03
luke-jrand if that were in fact the case, they just need to set the price right05:03
wmaronenah05:03
wmaronethey'd just go to trade-secret and find a way to make the chip opaque to x-ray and self destruct when decapped05:04
luke-jrthat'd be illegal05:04
kfx05:04
kfxwhat the hell05:04
kfxthis can't be easier than just typing ??05:05
johnxkfx, hand writing recognition?05:05
pupnikskype has been around for a long time with a very useful binary vector into many systems behind firewalls05:05
kfxI think you mean "...recognitio"05:05
kfxoh that's like three unicode chars too05:06
kfxnice05:06
kfxI miss 198705:06
pupniki miss not having to deal with internationalization05:06
pupnikback when learning a program was intensive work enough to make the language irrelevant05:07
kfxstupid plan9 had to make utf-8 libs that made sense05:07
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kfxthen evvverybody had to get in on it05:07
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vkvrajuHi All,05:25
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vkvrajuAm I the only one seeking noise here?06:00
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fredrinN900no06:41
fredrinN900none european people with borked sleeping schedule?06:43
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* fredrinN900 needs some good podcasts06:44
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TermanafredrinN900, This Week in Google or The Linux Action Show?07:00
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lolloohello there07:08
lolloowhy isnt maemo notifier plugin for xchat not working for m N900?07:08
lollooit doent notifiy me neither with sounds or lights07:09
lolloohow can I edit the text config for the plugin?07:09
lolloomaybe there is someline coding need to be changed07:09
lollooany you guys know whereor how I can edit the file for the plugin?07:10
Termanalolloo, do you often forget where you leave your keys?07:10
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lolloowhere is the place of the file?07:10
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lolloowhich directory I can find in xchat notifier plugin07:10
lolloo?07:10
TermanaBecause apparently you often forget that you ask the same question every day and fail to realise that the same people who gave you an answer last time are the same regulars that idle here.07:11
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lolloono one gave me an answer07:11
lollooand I think its ok to ask many times.07:11
lolloountil someone replies07:11
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lollooso where can I find the file directory?07:11
lolloofor xchat maemo notifier07:12
lollooplugin07:12
lolloois it hard for you to answer?07:12
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lollooI know the directory is something /.xchat2/07:13
lolloobut what is something07:13
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lolloowhere can I find that directory07:14
lolloowhere is it on my phone?07:14
johnxdude. if someone knows and wants to answer they will07:14
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johnxif you're annoying to the people who know the answer, they're less likely to help you07:14
lollooam giving hints07:15
johnxyou're being annoying, which is why I'm not helping you. Dunno about other people. A lot of the people who know probably already have you on /ignore07:15
fredrinN900or sleep07:19
lollooomg all that07:20
lolloowhatever07:20
pupniklolloo: you can open a shell and do a "ls -al |more" to see what hidden directories are in your cwd07:21
pupnikalong with all other stuff07:21
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lollooAlright!07:23
fredrinN900:)07:24
fredrinN900good boy07:24
TermanaYou could find just hidden directories/files with "find . -name ".*" | more"07:24
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TermanaRather then list everything07:24
fredrinN900less07:25
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jansyhi trying to ssh to laptop.In xterminal and type ssh but keep getting -sh: ssh: not found07:26
fredrinN900you need to install ssh07:27
jansyi have ssh daemon switched on07:27
fredrinN900client07:27
jansylike openssh ?07:27
fredrinN900not server07:27
fredrinN900openssh client07:28
jansythanks mate I'll try07:28
fredrinN900yes07:28
fredrinN900np07:28
fredrinN900report back07:28
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pupnikprobably got distracted by its' own tail07:41
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johnxFor the record, I don't have a problem with people asking questions, even lots of questions. I do get annoyed when people act like they deserve help simply because they exist and especially when they don't use google and/or RTFM07:44
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TermanaOh he's gone07:45
Termanagees - I wish we had laws to prevent being from being such dumb arses07:46
Termana:P07:46
johnxI really think he didn't know about /ignore ...07:46
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TermanaMost of the channel has him on ignore. I don't simply because I hate putting people on ignore. Makes it hard to follow IRC conversations if that person is actually being useful and apart of it.07:47
luke-jr/ignore is for people who can't ignore mentally? :P07:48
johnxluke-jr, true enough. I'll be the first to admit that's me. Though when I'm in a state of mind where the noise distracts me, I just turn off *all* the noise ;)07:49
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dospodhi old friends09:12
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jpinx-eeepcwho's he calling old?09:17
dospodeveryone that was here around 2 years ago09:18
Termanajpinx-eeepc, no one he's only saying hi to anyone that is old09:18
Termana:P09:18
* jpinx-eeepc qualifies -- new here - but old everywhere else :(09:19
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Termanajpinx-eeepc, would it make you happier if I get the hell off your lawn?09:21
jpinx-eeepcheh09:21
meceLOL09:24
mecedaaaaaamn! Stupid pre mob.09:24
mecehttp://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html09:24
dospodanybody still use a n80009:25
mecedospod, I believe quite many do actually.09:26
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dospodI may be trying to get ahold of one again soon09:26
dospodmiss the damn thing so much09:26
mecewhy not n810?09:28
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dospodthe only thing I liked about them was the keyboard....09:29
dospodplus I only have spare sd cards so I want the n80009:29
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meceI thought the keyboard was the only thing different..09:30
dospodonly one card slot and its mini sd09:31
jjoyeah, different memory cards in all the tablets09:32
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dospodkinda lame09:32
meceI see. Not something that would affect me in any way, but then again I've never had one :)09:33
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dospodthe n800 was so nice for me when I had it my sophomore and junior year of high school09:34
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dospodon the fly torrent downloading for when I visited family , xchat , browser, games, media support, webcam , etc...09:34
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dospodwell I got class at 9 tommorow so goodnight everybody09:39
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meceomg it's wednesday!10:12
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mecewhich hence forth shall be known as MeeGoday10:13
Termanamece, why?10:13
TermanaNothing special is happening with MeeGo today, why would you call it MeeGoday? :P10:14
mecemeego weekly build come wednesdays. Unless there's trouble.10:14
meceStskeeps, is there trouble?10:14
TermanaOh right, the weekly build :P I guess that's exciting10:14
meceTermana, well it's the most exciting thing happening happening in meego on this side of development.10:15
meceTermana, this side being the side that doesn't develop meego.10:15
Stskeepsmece: http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/HandsetTestReport/N900Sanity2010092110:16
Stskeepsno not horribly10:16
DuckbootStskeeps: No Highlights?10:17
StskeepsDuckboot: the bigger highlights were in earlier10:17
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meceLOL10:17
meceeh unable to launch browser ey... well that's a bit of a bummer.10:17
Stskeepsmece: i just spent my evening yesterday debugging the issue10:18
Stskeepsi officially hate fennec from now on10:18
meceStskeeps, did you find the fault?10:19
Stskeepsmece: it's a reproducable problem10:20
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* RST38h yawns10:45
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RST38hhelo lcuk10:47
johnxm00f RST38h10:47
RST38hmoo johnx10:47
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johnxRST38h, what's new in your half of the world?10:49
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lcukhey RST38h johnx10:50
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RST38hjohnx: rain.10:51
rmrfchikwazzup10:51
johnxso rain is new huh? yet another thing that seattle invented10:51
RST38hehhehe10:52
johnxwe had rain before it was cool10:52
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JaffaMorning, all10:56
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spinningcompassScotland invented rain, but Thomas Edison filed the first patent.11:00
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crashanddiespinningcompass: Scotland invented rain?11:04
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johnxcrashanddie, yeah. but seattle made it cool11:07
RST38hjohnx: and will have rain long after there is somebody to enjoy it =)11:07
johnxRST38h, yeah, trends do seem to stick around even after it seems like all their fans have moved on11:08
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jacktheripperwe're losing! http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html12:02
Papayawhipvote for the n900 :D http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html   it shouldn't loose against palm pre^^12:02
jacktheripperrofl12:02
Papayawhippwned xD12:02
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SunilThahaHi, could you please give pointers on how to get the libimmvibe installed in my scratchbox?12:05
SunilThahaI am talking about the lib in this link - http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_nokia-applications_explicit_armel/immvibe/3.4.52-maemo0/12:05
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Stskeepsnot sure you can12:06
SunilThahaStskeeps, is that reply for me?12:06
Stskeepsyes12:07
SunilThahaoh ... why is it that I cannot install that in scratchbox ?12:07
Stskeepsit's authenticated by the device ID, i think12:07
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SunilThahaStskeeps, I did not get you12:08
Stskeepsbasically that lib is not a 'maemo' api, to my knowledge, ie, no development headers for it12:08
Stskeepsand it is only downloadable by the device itself12:08
Stskeeps(n900)12:08
SunilThahaso you mean to say .. there is no libimmvibe-dev package available?12:10
Stskeepsafaik12:10
SunilThahaI am confused .. how is it useful to have a lib installable only in device and there isn't a dev package there12:11
Stskeepsdunno12:12
jacktheripperanyone knows when's the poll ending ?12:12
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jacekowskiyesterday12:14
jacekowskihmm, today12:14
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jacktheripper:/12:15
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Papayawhipaww and the desktop development image is still missing -.-12:17
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Papayawhipand wow... one torrent seeder12:18
Papayawhipcan somebody upload the latest raw ubuntu desktop development image?12:21
jacekowskidownload it from www12:21
jacekowskinot via torrent12:21
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Papayawhipit's missing12:21
Papayawhipthere is only the server version with nothing in it12:21
jacekowskihttp://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/download.html12:22
Papayawhipklick the link12:22
Papayawhipyou will see there is no desktop image12:23
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Papayawhipi dont know why nokia removed this image12:23
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Papayawhipi just want to open eclipse and develop my application... in this case i have to build my own image... and this sucks12:25
MiXu-It was pretty old12:25
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PapayawhipMiXu-: apt-get upgrade should solve this12:26
MiXu-And besides the old image didn't even have the qt tools12:27
MiXu-This just in from #qt: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html12:28
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MiXu-If you want scratchbox then that you'll have to install yourself12:29
MiXu-But why bother when you can run stuff directly on the N90012:29
Papayawhipsdk and scratbox have their own repos. i think this is no problem to keep this up to date12:30
lcukMiXu-, scratchbox helps with larger builds and full build system compatability12:30
crashanddiealso, historically, due to the rootfs size issue, installing build-essential on the NIT really crippled the device in terms of usability (as did most ill-thought applications)12:31
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Papayawhipuse somone this image? http://maemo.org/downloads/product/PC/vpc-sdk/12:42
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DocScrutinizermoo12:50
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DocScrutinizera 'noob' question: how should I do a (preferably) *complete* backup of kernel and rootfs of a N900, prior to reflashing?12:52
Stskeepsi rsync rootfs to a sd card with -aHx12:53
DocScrutinizerthanks12:53
DocScrutinizerI guess kernel backup is futile12:53
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Stskeepskernel.. well, it's certainly an interesting task12:54
Stskeepsgrab it from a FIASCO image or the deb12:54
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DocScrutinizerok, maybe I got neither of both12:54
DocScrutinizerbut actually that's not my problem ATM, and in the end who cares about PR1.1 :-P12:56
DocScrutinizeralso FIASCO for second and >>Third Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N900<< still on Nokia's server12:58
Sceltfrals: what library you use to rescale mms images? it takes amazingly long time comparing to the efficiency of f.e. imagemagick12:58
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: mind to toss me the rsync line for c&p, I'm still waiting for coffee to kick in ;-)13:00
Stskeepsrsync -aHx / /microsd13:03
Stskeeps:P13:03
DocScrutinizer:-D13:03
Stskeepsext3 fs preferred13:04
Stskeepsand then i make a ubifs out of it13:04
DocScrutinizero.O13:04
Stskeepsand refresh13:05
Stskeepser, reflash13:05
DocScrutinizeras it happens, I got a ext3 partition of ~4GB on my card :-D13:05
Stskeeps(check mer-project.blogspot.com)13:05
Papayawhiphmh prefer rsync backup to a remote machine :D13:05
DocScrutinizerthanks :-)13:05
DocScrutinizerPapayawhip: I was pondeing the same, but my laptop also is @98% or sth (thanks to scratchbox :-/)13:06
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Papayawhipyou should buy a big NAS :D13:07
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DocScrutinizerisn't it funny you need xxGB of development system to build a 4MB kernel :-P13:08
Papayawhiphehe13:09
Papayawhiphttp://pastebox.de/3EWvgaQY4q/  this is my backup script13:09
DocScrutinizer(buy NAS) waiting for someone to sponsor it XD13:09
DocScrutinizera decent dsktop PC with 1 or 2 TB storage would maybe help as well13:10
kerioi have a nas :313:11
nidOmy nas is just a pc13:11
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Papayawhipthe acer 340 nas is a nice device... but with windows homeserver as default operationg system -.-13:11
nidO5x750gb drives in raid5 with a hot standby works nicely13:12
kerioi have a sheevaplug + a 1tb usb drive13:12
Papayawhipnice^^13:12
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Papayawhipjust have 2x2TB (raid 1) and one 1TB for transport13:13
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DocScrutinizershould backup to one of my net boxes :-P13:13
DocScrutinizermaybe even load off the whole scary scratchbox to there13:14
Papayawhipyep, but u should create a tar first :D13:14
nidObig amounts of storage is supercheap and easy these days :<13:15
DocScrutinizermy coffe isn't supercheap, everything else another class of considerations13:15
Papayawhipif i understand the amazon cloud pricing list... 1TB net storage 2$ / week?13:15
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jacekowskiyeah13:16
jacekowskijust storag13:16
jacekowskistorage13:16
Papayawhipjep13:16
jacekowskibut you have to pay for transfer13:17
jacekowskiand for request13:17
nidOvia s3 it's what, 1.5 cents per gb per month isnt it, then transfer costs on top of it13:17
kerio:o13:17
kerioit's a lot!13:17
kerioi would buy more HDs, but the problem is that i only have one usb port on the sheevaplug13:17
kerio._.13:17
DocScrutinizeruse a hub :-P13:18
ShadikkaUSB hubs aren't that expensive13:18
keriousing a hub is just not the same thing13:18
kerioand i'm using one13:18
Shadikkaheh, quite a timing13:18
DocScrutinizerUSB sucks tbh13:18
kerioit does13:18
* Papayawhip is waiting for organic HDD's :P13:18
keriobut meh, all i have to do is download massive amounts of music, videos and softwar13:18
kerioe13:18
kerioi mean, $LEGAL_STUFF13:18
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Papayawhipvote! vote! vote! :D http://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html13:19
merlin1991nah we're beaten, gotta stand to that13:20
Papayawhiphmh, we have the bigger community13:20
Papayawhipand more skills in manipulateing software xD13:21
merlin1991yeah, script the hell out of that page13:21
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merlin1991b0rk the database, corrupt the idea of votes13:22
Papayawhipit was just a joke -.-13:22
merlin1991+ write me an ati driver for my x300 so I have decent opengl support again :D13:22
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merlin1991I could play quake based games 2 years ago, but now running the radeon driver, 5 fps :/13:23
lcukit seems people have forgotten how to optimise and make things fast13:24
DocScrutinizerWAAAAH, rsync not found. apt-get fails due to missing space and unmet dependencies13:24
fralsScelt: PIL, aka python imaging library or something13:24
lcukperhaps its all the layers of redirection and complexity13:24
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Sceltfrals: why not imagemagick or something more efficient? PIL takes a hell lot of a time to finish up a little scaling process :(13:25
merlin1991well in my case it's crappy support for my hardware, and I don't see any updates that will help me in the future :(13:25
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kerioPIL is cool13:27
keriodammit we're losing13:27
kerioguys, start the scripting13:27
lcukfrals, does PIL include an internal C optimised scaling function13:27
lcukor are you doing the scaling pixel by pixel in native python code/13:28
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lcukkerio, sell it better13:28
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keriostart the scripting please?13:28
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merlin1991hehe :D13:28
lcukThose pesky palm pre guys hid the voting from us, but now we know, its time to get a move on and vote :P13:28
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kerio"I have heavyly customised my phone to do just about what ever i want. They have patches for just about anything for this phone and if you wanted to run other os on it (which i dont know why you would) you can also do so on the palm pre. Right now i have mine overclocked ot 1ghz. Can the n900 do that? I hope pre takes it all!!!!!"13:30
fralsScelt: because at the time it was meant to be the easy solution, didnt expect people to actually use it... :D13:30
merlin1991what?13:30
fralsScelt: should probably switch imagemagick, but i have almost no time to dev on fmms atm13:31
Sceltfrals: hah, gotcha. but maybe it's time to make it better13:31
fralsScelt: patches welcome thou! ;-)13:31
lcukScelt, was just gonna say ^^13:31
keriowrite a PymageMagick13:31
lcukfrals, does fMMS allow transfer of patch files? :p13:31
lcukN900 - including super MMS13:32
Sceltfrals: I guess that. If it were perl, I would patch it but no time nor passion to learn python13:32
fralslcuk: you can mms a patch file yes13:32
lcuk:D13:32
fralslcuk: it might get lost in traffic depending on operator thou13:32
kerioand it costs13:32
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lcukkerio, not the point here, people who want to use the service will13:33
fralsScelt: understandable, dropping an example in the fmms thread on tmo would be welcome thou13:33
keriooh, sure13:33
kerioit doesn't stop MMSes from being evil13:33
kerioeven more evil than SMSes, actually13:33
Sceltfrals: example of code or idea?13:34
lcukkerio, its not evil to make someone smile13:34
kerioyou mean to make $phone_company's_CEO smile?13:34
keriosure13:34
Sceltfrals: where I can find the fmms source code?13:34
lcukfrals, based on what you said, can you send any binary data down the wire?13:35
lcukand is there a size limit?13:35
lcuk(if so, what is it)13:35
kerioand where's my autovoting script :(13:36
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Sceltfrals: damn. have moved permanently to Finland?13:36
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lcukScelt, no, he stayed where he was, just hacked the gps sats to show he had moved a few hundred miles east13:38
Sceltmiles?13:38
Sceltno miles here13:38
Sceltlcuk: but maybe you can find the "permanently" word in my sentence. meaning not just a few months work trip but really living among the best of the people13:39
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DocScrutinizerseems I have to try cp -ax  instead of rsync13:40
fralsScelt: gitorious.org/fmms - example code is fine, even if its perl (but please keep it readable for nonperl ppl ;))13:40
fralslcuk: yes, depending on operator, e.g. my swedish operator doesnt limit file size or format13:41
jarkkomyou can't probably put binary data through real MMSC, they do have this content support check mechanism that will just redirect mms to email/web display if they think your phone can't handle it13:41
lcukfrals, awesomeness13:41
fralsScelt: yes ;)13:41
jarkkomarbitrary binary data that is13:41
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* lcuk ponders new MMS media types :)13:41
Sceltfrals: kewl. where you living at? in the center of Helsinki?13:41
keriolcuk: steganography!13:42
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jarkkombut of course with N900 you can hack the headers to be whatever you want and tell MMSC you support everything13:42
kerioi thought fmms already did that13:42
lcukkerio, no, that would only be a few bytes embedded within a picture13:42
keriolcuk: so send more pictures ;)13:43
DocScrutinizercp: invalid option -- x13:43
lcukfrals just said basically its an accessible data port13:43
DocScrutinizerBusyBox v1.10.213:43
DocScrutinizer\o/13:43
DocScrutinizerFUCK busybox13:43
kerioDocScrutinizer: my sheevaplug uses a full ubuntu 9.04 by default, and it has 512mb of internal flash13:43
lcukoi, as an op around here you should abide by the same manners as others DocScrutinizer13:43
keriothe n900 has... 65 times that?13:43
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fralsScelt: yeah, sw part of punaovouri13:44
Scelt:D13:44
keriolcuk: i think there's an explicit exception in the swearing rule13:44
DocScrutinizerlcuk: ack, sorry13:44
kerio"no swearing, except when directed towards busybox"13:44
Sceltfrals: you may just call it rödberg as it's known amongst finns as rööperi13:44
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Sceltfrals: did you move for a work or a woman?13:45
StskeepsScelt: most common reasons to move to finland?13:46
Stskeeps:P13:46
DocScrutinizerok, apt-get is screwed, busybox is screwed, and I'm out of ideas how to backup this rootfs13:46
SceltStskeeps: only reasons I can think of moving to another country13:46
StskeepsScelt: lower tax helps sometimes13:47
Stskeeps:P13:47
SceltStskeeps: well yeah, but I doubt of frals getting that much money from Nokia13:47
jarkkomnokia is bit better these days, they used to be really cheap though13:48
DocScrutinizer~lart nokia for not including a rescue system and multiboot by default13:48
* infobot whips out a sword and chops nokia in half for not including a rescue system and multiboot by default13:48
Sceltrelying on the good reference13:48
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jarkkomScelt, it's not like nokia is very prestigious place to work these days with all the troubles they've got so they better pay new hires well :)13:49
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Sceltyeah :)13:49
DocScrutinizeresp since nobody wants to move to Tempere or HEL really13:50
nidOand they need a lot of them, as theres a mass evacuation underway13:50
fralsScelt: work, my woman is still in sthlm ;<13:51
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Sceltfrals: why so? she should be with you. making you dinner, washing dishes etc.13:53
keriomaking sammiches in the kitchen!</misogynist>13:53
Sceltsudo make me a sandwich13:54
lcukwhy do you think he wrote fMMS - she sends him photos of sandwiches every night!13:54
Sceltfrals: if I'm corrent, this example uses imagemagick command just like a terminal call? no mighty libraries. convert = subprocess.check_call(["convert", vars['source_image_fullpath'], "-scale", vars['sizes'][size]['width'] + 'x' + vars['sizes'][size]['height'] + '!',  new_path])13:54
fralsScelt: she still has 6months left in uni before she gets her degree13:55
fralsScelt: looks about right i think, if the binary is 'convert'13:55
Sceltyeah, it is13:55
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Sceltfrals: and then she moves to rödberg with you?13:56
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Papayawhipoh my god http://www.deutschepost.de/dpag?tab=1&skin=hi&check=yes&lang=de_EN&xmlFile=link1022792_102279013:58
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RST38hPapaya: Not new14:04
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Arkenoiseems that n9 will have two keys more than n900, that's enough for a decent cyrillic keyboard14:05
SceltArkenoi: url14:05
Sceltn9 with meego?14:05
Arkenoiyep14:05
Sceltgive me an url14:06
Sceltimmediately14:06
Myrttirumours :-<14:06
SceltI'm keen to know14:06
SceltMyrtti: ilonpilaaja14:06
Arkenoithere is a lot of photos floating around on the internets14:06
MyrttiScelt: realisti14:06
Sceltcouldn't say it in English :P14:06
SceltArkenoi: oh, so just rumours14:06
MyrttiScelt: "spoilsport"14:06
Arkenoiyep14:06
SceltMyrtti: okaydokay, next time then14:06
Arkenoibut they are quite consistent from multiple sources14:06
MyrttiI tend not to believe a thing before I see an official press release, but that's just me14:07
Sceltfrals: I could do you a patch if I got a clue how to test it in action :P woudln't wanna give you a code I haven't tested at all even though it may work perfectly ;)14:07
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lcukScelt, so test test test it yourself14:08
Scelt"if I got a clue how to test it in action"14:08
Sceltdamn man, you don't read the whole sentences today14:08
fralsScelt: just giving me the commandline should be enough as its trivial to convert to a python snippet for me14:09
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fralsScelt: how to test it would be to start fmms, tap new mms, attaching a huge image and then try to send and see what happens ;D14:09
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Sceltbut first packaging and etc.14:09
Sceltfrals: I was hoping you'd say so ;)14:09
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johnny_hello\14:11
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johnny_hey guys i found a new bug wid dis device14:12
johnny_a serious security bug14:12
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Appiah!!14:12
pigeononly one?14:12
Appiahanother one14:13
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johnny_actually a few14:13
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Appiahso you found a few serious security bugs14:14
johnny_yep14:14
johnny_certificate issues14:14
Sceltju14:15
Sceltwrong channel14:15
johnny_suggest then14:15
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Sceltfrals: convert orig_image -resample newWdithxnewHeight\! new_image -> convert /tmp/1.jpg -resample 128x90! /tmp/2.jpg14:18
Sceltfrals: of course you gotta have imagemagick installed14:18
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Sceltfrals: there are many different options to do that resizing. resample, sample and scale are wrappers where iirc resample has the best quality and scale is the fastest14:20
Sceltfrals: wrappers for -resize14:20
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jarkkomis there some kind of more "maemo-like" (like one in calendar app) date/time selector available in QT, the default one seems kind of clunky on actual device14:21
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merlin1991uh oh, I think the readeon module is dying on me, random square areas turn into rubish until I force a refresh of the screen14:23
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lolloopidgin messenger notify plugin is not working om N90014:33
lolloohow do I know if some one PM me without the phone blinking or making sound?14:33
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Appiahvibrates? :)14:33
lollooPidgin doesnt notify14:33
lollooPidgin messenger14:34
Appiahwhat protocols do you use?14:34
Appiahhave you searched for bugs?14:34
lolloomsn. IRC, ICQ14:34
lollooyes, do I need to install python maybe?14:34
lollooPidgin messenger doesnt make not even notify sound or blink or vibrate14:35
AppiahPR1.2?14:35
lollooyes14:35
lolloois it beacuse I use LED notifier app?14:35
lollooeven Xchat notify plugin is not working14:36
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lolloohow do I know if I am using PR1.2?14:37
lolloois it in the About14:37
merlin1991settings about14:37
merlin1991pr1.2 is something like 10.2010.19-114:38
lollooit says version : 10.2010.1914:38
merlin1991should be pr1.214:38
lolloostrange14:38
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lolloodoesnt notify me also in xchat nor Pidgin14:39
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lolloono sound or vibrate or blinking14:39
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lollooshould I flash my firmware again?14:40
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lollooother notfies like miss call or e-mail is working14:41
lolloobut not for Pidgin14:41
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lollooPidgin messenger doesn't notify me14:41
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lollooso any suggestion?15:09
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sp3000dunno, maybe they didn't implement that?15:11
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lollooit is implemntes15:16
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maxjahi15:18
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maxjaj15:31
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maxjahow can i make maemo xterm beep?15:39
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DocScrutinizerguess you're outa luck15:50
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flashnmaxja, xset16:01
MohammadAG51need hostmode testers16:01
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alteregoMohammadAG51: !!!16:05
* alterego raises hand16:05
alteregoI've got al lthe gear too! :D16:05
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alteregoCrap, though not right now, is it okay if I ping you tomorrow morning?16:05
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lovelyboyHi,  I am trying to draw a sphere with Qt/OpenGL ES 2.0, which is using the shading language. I need to build the vertices, texture coordinates and normals arrays for a sphere. So I wonder if there is such an example code for creating a sphere with QT+OpenGL ES 2.0.16:09
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jarkkomlovelyboy, there's one in QT examples http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/trees/4.5/examples/opengl/hellogl_es216:15
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lovelyboyjarkkom, i saw that one, but the problem is in that example, it creates a qt icon, which is good. But in my case, the vertices array for a sphere seems much more complex,16:17
lovelyboyand, i guess it  needs some kind of math functions to generate such vertices array, as well as  the texture coordinates and normals16:18
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w00t_Jaffa: *some* developers make crap testers of their own (or in fact any) code, certainly :-P16:19
maxjahow can osso-xterm beep in maemo16:19
maxja?16:19
maxjaecho -e "\a" doesn't work16:19
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Jaffaw00t_: I'm not sure I've met *any* developer who was _consistently_ good at user testing their code (rather than unit testing & TDDificating it)16:44
lopzhi :)16:44
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w00t_Jaffa: I'm usually fairly anal about it, I don't think I tend to break stuff often16:45
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rmrfchikhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/09/21/ce-oh-no-he-didnt-anssi-vanjoki-says-using-android-is-like-pe/17:07
rmrfchikfuuuuuuu17:07
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Papayawhiphttp://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html vote vote vote17:09
Papayawhipwe can win :D17:09
Termanarmrfchik, the article points out that Nokia believes fragmenting user experience is a good idea.17:09
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rmrfchikvoting for palm..17:10
rmrfchik;)17:10
Termanarmrfchik, naughty boy ;)17:10
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rmrfchikPalm Pre 53.07%17:10
* Jaffa 's not used a Pre...17:11
TermanaPapayawhip, we're 327 votes behind. Is that even that amount of people still in the Maemo community?17:11
Termana:P17:12
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PapayawhipTermana: today at 9 o clock we was 500 votes behind17:13
Papayawhipwe can raise :D17:13
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GAN900Pre might be cooler with a reasonable screen resolution.17:15
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Khertan_Hi everyone !17:16
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MohammadAGTermana, 509 users here, stfu :P17:17
TermanaMohammadAG, heh :P come on, do I need to make it clearer for you that I was pulling everyones leg?17:18
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jhpHi everyone. I have a strange problem. I have a N900 and I have had it with 2 phones now that after some time the volume on the headset gets very low resulting in not being able to hear anyone anymore. Has anyone seen this before?17:26
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ShadowJKhm.. I obtained a USB umts modem17:34
GAN900Yes, on my prototype.17:34
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ShadowJKit reports its IMEI is 00000000000000017:34
GAN900Haven't seen it on a retail unit.17:34
ShadowJKunsurprisingly doesn't work :D17:34
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Jaffajhp: On the "headset" do you mean the normal speaker?17:35
Jaffajhp: I had that with a prototype and sent it back. Had two others which have been fine, but there are other reports of it too17:35
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Jaffajhp: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=n900+call+volume+low17:36
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an0therb0xwill there be any more firmware updates for the N900 ?17:43
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GAN900Maybe one17:44
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an0therb0xi am somewhat surprised with how Nokia has handled the N900, supposedly their first "real" shot in the so called smartphone wars and now it seem it was a misfire .. with the announcement of 4 new s^3 devices17:46
keriothe n900 was never a participant in the smartphone wars17:47
kerioif anything, because it's not a smartphone17:47
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an0therb0xseems like semantics, what is the difference between a "smartphone" and "mobile computer"17:53
togglesfanboys17:54
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aslanifrom PeterÃMaemoMarketing: N900 was never meant as smartphone,but as mobile computer with phone feature, designed,for predominant landscape use, step 4 out of 5 in taking Maemo to mainstreamsmartphone market.17:56
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* ShadowJK wonders if android has overtaken nokia in the "smartphone wars" yet17:57
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jhpJaffa: Yes, on the normal speaker. The one you hold against your ear.17:58
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jhpI hardly hear anything, and it gets worse and worse every day.17:58
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jhpI can now only use it with the earpeaces.17:58
GAN900a mobile computer is a laptop with a cellular modem that fits in your pocket.17:59
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Khertan_rahahahahah !!! Need QT 4.7 to deploy my apps !18:17
Stskeepsisn't qt4.7 in extras-devel?18:17
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Khertan_Stskeeps: yep but i mean in a pr release :)18:18
Stskeepsah18:18
Khertan_i cannot push experimental libs to extras :)18:18
* Stskeeps hopes that comes18:18
Khertan_Stskeeps: it ll :)18:18
Khertan_it will ...18:18
Khertan_just be patient18:18
Khertan_currently i got many bugs report that are qt 4.6 bugs :)18:19
Khertan_Stskeeps: maybe you can help me and explain me what is a UTF-8 hyphenations i didn't understand :)18:19
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Khertan_http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-1510?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:changehistory-tabpanel18:20
Khertan_:)18:20
StskeepsKhertan_: no idea18:20
Khertan_:)18:20
Khertan_thx anyway18:20
Khertan_i ask because google translate hyphenations(en) in hyphenations(fr)18:20
Khertan_:)18:21
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Khertan_ok i understand ... it s a word truncature :)18:22
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Khertan_but in utf-8 the truncation symbol isn't the same as the minus symbol :)18:22
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luke-jrKhertan_: what insanity is this? :P18:23
luke-jrnot even *Gentoo* has Qt 4.7 yet18:23
luke-jrLTS are bound to be on 4.518:24
luke-jror 4.418:24
Sceltfrals: did you get that commandline call?18:24
kfxslackware ships qt 4.618:27
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fredrinN900good morning18:29
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poghello, I'm trying to cusomize my N900. Is there a possibility to sort the application in another way (on the desktop, where all icons are)? Many Icons I dont need. Ohters I need I have to scroll first to the bottom.18:43
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luke-jrpog: yes18:44
nidOyou can alter the desktop however you want, and you can re-order things in the application list18:44
luke-jrpog: did you watch the tutorial video18:44
luke-jr?18:44
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pogi'll will watch it again, may be I havn't recogized that there was a description, when I looked it.18:45
GAN900pog, tap'n'hold18:45
GAN900Or Catorize is nice too.18:45
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pogthanks for the hints.18:46
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lcukGAN900, ApMeFo is looking good!18:47
lcukhttp://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/09/17/is-designing-ui-simple-with-qt/18:47
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lcukpog ^18:47
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Jaffalcuk: Pft, no offence to hrw but Catorise is nicer cos it's the shizzle.18:50
hrwJaffa: no offence taken. Catorise is indeed nicer18:51
hrwApMeFo allows to create folder and move around them but Catorise does work automatically18:51
hrwboth have different users18:52
Jaffahrw: And it's difficult to rewrite in Qt. And won't work with the flat, iOS-like paged thing of MeeGo18:52
* Jaffa nods18:52
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Papayawhiphttp://www.fonearena.com/blog/23073/smartphone-championship-semi-final-nokia-n900-vs-palm-pre.html  30 votes missing^^18:53
luke-jrvote Palm Pre since N900 isn't a smartphone18:55
Papayawhipit's a smartphone-tablet18:56
MohammadAG15 votes lol18:56
MohammadAGthat was fast18:56
luke-jr15 votes means this poll is meaningless18:56
kfxdo they even sell the palm pre any more18:57
Papayawhip10 votes :P18:58
MohammadAG918:58
MohammadAGxD18:58
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MohammadAGhaha, 1419:00
bef0rdpalm pre looked nice19:00
bef0rdnever used it though19:00
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* DocScrutinizer is going to *love* meego GUI, mmmmmm </sarcasm>19:02
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hrwI played a bit with palm pre. did not liked it19:06
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TermanaYou will burn in hell if we lose the poll and you didn't vote19:07
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DocScrutinizerand catorise, while nice by concept, is relying on the fubar categories of repo rsp hildon app manager. I never find anything there in the category I think it might be, so end up with using 'all' in the end, each single time19:07
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DocScrutinizerApMeFo is great (though objections regarding the config UI are hard to argue against)19:10
MohammadAGTermana, does it matter? it's actually two forums and two communities voting19:10
MohammadAGthe palm pre doesn't beat the nexus19:11
TermanaMohammadAG, I see your sense of humour is at an all time low tonight19:11
Termana:P19:11
MohammadAGyes, after all I'm cracking networks to get the votes up19:12
MohammadAGand.. there's the WEP key19:12
MohammadAGjk :P19:12
RST38hOk, moo.19:12
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lcukJaffa, hrw - of course, the biggest winner here is open source :) being able to select the best and even improve tooling knowledge by helping the other ;)19:13
DocScrutinizeralso using icon reordering in any of the menus tends to break ApMeFo menus, so after draging around icons you need to start up ApMeFo and save the config again19:13
RST38hlcuk <-- being sugary-positive again tonight19:13
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Jaffalcuk: You've been drinking far too much kool-aid recently. On any new medications? ;-)19:13
DocScrutinizerbasically ApMeFo needs integration into hildon desktop manager, or hildon app launcher19:14
lcukRST38h, I would be *really* sugary sweet if you would help make an official open source Nokia emulator ;)19:14
RST38hlcuk: Why not ask hrw?19:14
RST38hlcuk: He had one running, on Qemu19:14
hrwlcuk: Nokia provides qemu + maemo5 image in Qt SDK19:15
lcukthats a good point, but from what I discovered the older nokias are more custom chipsets19:15
lcukhrw, I mean emulating old school nokia devices19:15
MohammadAG1 vote LOL19:15
RST38hwhy do you need to emulate an older nokia though?19:15
RST38hah, I see19:15
MohammadAGN900 beats pre!19:15
hrwlcuk: define 'old school'19:15
* MohammadAG likes watching cat & mouse shit :P19:15
lcuk3210 black&white snake era19:15
hrwhaha19:15
lcukwhen phones were phones!19:16
* MohammadAG found his 341019:16
RST38hMohammad: Not yet, we need more margin! =)19:16
lcukand you could punish the buttons without lag or complaints about fingernails or touch sensitivity etc19:16
RST38hyou want me to simulate the physical shape too? =)19:16
lcuknahh19:16
lcukthat can be done like you did the Ti emu19:17
lcukjust replacable faces, nokia has a back catalogue big enough to restock ovi with thousands of the things19:17
DocScrutinizerHP emu >> Ti emu19:17
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lcukRST38h, http://liqbase.net/liq.20100830_nokia3210.png19:21
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RST38hlcuk: why?=)19:21
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lcukwhy not :) everyone has a favourite old phone and it would be kinda cool to have a fully working emulated one19:22
* RST38h suggests lcuk buys himself a 20x2 backlit alphanumeric LCD19:22
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lcuknot the intent RST38h19:22
RST38hConnect it to your PC and scroll email subjects there =)19:22
lcukoldschool meego UX19:22
RST38hah now I am getting it19:23
RST38hyou want to use this thing for dialing19:23
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RST38hnot very difficult, but it is not going to be nearly as nice as the real thing19:23
lcuk:) isn't it a shame we think new things are not going to work as well as old things.19:24
jpinx-eeepcgenerally true :)19:24
RST38hnew things are usually cheaper19:25
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, ouch. Too bad you weren't here when we put together the categories.19:52
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johnsqHi19:54
DocScrutinizerGAN900: Believe me, you wouldn't want me around19:54
GAN900And I agree, I don't think we really hit the mark for the categories.19:55
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inkbottleIs there any workaround for "bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10304"?20:00
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lcukinkbottle, stop putting quotes round the URL and prefix it with http:// generally stops it being a problem20:03
lcukhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1030420:03
povbotBug 10304: Contacts not being recognised in Phone or SMS Conversations20:03
RST38hbtw is there a messaging plugin that shows emails with the rest of the messages?20:04
lcukinkbottle, are you the reporter?20:05
inkbottleno20:05
lcukdo you experience this problem?20:05
inkbottlebut I have this since I upgraded to PR-1.220:06
inkbottleyes every time20:06
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inkbottlefor both sms and phone calls: can't know who is calling20:07
lcukinkbottle, I don't see the actual numbers listed from anyone in the comments20:08
DocScrutinizerlcuk: bug #1030420:08
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10304 Contacts not being recognised in Phone or SMS Conversations20:08
lcukwhat number is shown on the screen20:08
lcukand what number is in the contact20:08
lcuki am reading that DocScrutinizer20:08
DocScrutinizerlcuk: just suggesting a shorter syntax20:09
MohammadAGbug 1030420:09
MohammadAGnaw, that used to work20:10
DocScrutinizer:-P20:10
DocScrutinizerbug 111120:10
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1111 [TRACKER] Maemo GTK+ 2.10 Regressions20:10
MohammadAGwtf20:10
MohammadAGbug 1030420:10
DocScrutinizeruniq20:10
inkbottlelcuk: i was verifying: just the same20:10
MohammadAGbug 111120:10
MohammadAGWTF20:10
lcukinkbottle, just the same? please type them!20:10
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: try a new one20:11
lcukwith spaces etc20:11
MohammadAGoh20:11
MohammadAGit ignores dupes20:11
MohammadAGright :P20:11
MohammadAGbug 1030520:11
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10305 Application Manager in PR1.2 says not enough space even though there is.20:11
inkbottlelcuk: you mean i actually call someone (with typing the number)20:12
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: yeah, povbot is a smart sucker20:12
lcukinkbottle, i dont experience the problem20:12
lcukso I am just wondering exactly what is shon20:12
lcukshown20:13
lcukand what the heck could have changed in it20:13
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MohammadAGstill haven't figured out how to update the code in .cpp files from .ui files in Qt Creator20:14
DocScrutinizerlcuk: :nod: - tel nr matching (and normalizing) isn't exactly trivial. Though aiui Nokia chosen the most simple approach of matching max 7 digits right-aligned20:15
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: qmake iirc20:15
inkbottlelcuk: i m doing some tests20:16
lcukinkbottle, then please put your findings on the bug report as additional information20:17
lcuki see many people generalising but not explicitly listing something that can be inserted and tested reproducably20:17
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inkbottlelcuk: I have no real results so far; however I have one information: I leave in France. Numbers are this sort: say 06 99 99 99 99 for a mobile phone; but when it's coming in it could be "+336 99 99 99 99" though it could be displayed by the phone "06 99..."20:26
inkbottlehowever it's more than seven digits on the right20:26
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lcukinkbottle, so the phone numbers in contacts have spaces?20:28
viszis there audible bell implementation for xterm?20:28
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inkbottleno it's for you to read20:32
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lcukinkbottle, I am not the software20:32
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inkbottle:-)20:33
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inkbottlelcuk: ok, I've got it :-)20:37
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inkbottleThe incoming call arrives "+336999..."20:37
inkbottleIf in your contacts you have an occurrence 06999... it is it that is matched20:38
inkbottleso not matched20:38
RST38hnot matched20:39
lcukdoes the phone number have dots in it?20:39
inkbottleby the way you can't manually insert a "+" in a contact's phone number20:39
inkbottlebut you can by the way of cut and past20:39
inkbottlelcuk: no dots20:40
inkbottlebut a "+" in front20:40
lcukcan you please just show me the actual numbers used completely without reformatting because the crus here is very likely what DocScrutinizer said20:40
lcukcrux20:40
inkbottle(dots were for the numbers on the right)20:41
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ShadowJKyou can manually insert a +, but for some reason you should NOT press the blue fn key when you try to make a +20:42
DocScrutinizerinkbottle: if it's for privacy, then replace *all* 5 by 3, and 4 by 720:42
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RST38hShadowJK: simple20:42
lcukyes, the digits themselves are mostly unimportant but its the length and structure that is20:42
RST38hShadowJK: the input method for that widget has been switched to "dialpad" or something20:42
DocScrutinizerRST38h: exactly20:43
RST38hShadowJK: I think you can do it yourself with any text input widget20:43
DocScrutinizeraka "implicit FN"20:43
lcukits the same for ip address fields too20:43
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inkbottlelcuk: ok the number displayed for incoming calls is "+33699999999" ie: "plus sign", number 33, and still 9 digits begining with a 620:43
inkbottleis it ok?20:43
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lcuk:D20:43
lcukyes20:43
lcukand how is that number stored in your address book20:44
inkbottleand then it seems it works; but there must not be "0699999999" in the contact!!20:45
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inkbottlelcuk: when you give a phone number you give "0699999999"20:45
DocScrutinizerthat's odd as I thought Nokia is uing >=7 digits from right for matching20:45
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inkbottleans the "+" is not accessible when you type numbers20:46
inkbottleand*20:46
DocScrutinizerit IS20:46
lcukslow down, and dont side track a moment20:46
inkbottlehowever I put the "+" by cut and past as I said20:47
lcukso in your contacts, you have "Mum: 0699999999"20:47
DocScrutinizerinkbottle: just press the 'S' key20:47
inkbottlelcuk: yes20:47
lcukand if your mum calls in on "+33699999999" it works as expected20:47
lcukand shows "Mum"20:47
inkbottleyes20:47
DocScrutinizerhmm, so where's the problem then?20:48
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inkbottlelcuk: but my Mum composes 0699999999; but it arrives "+33699999999" (see?)20:49
* RST38h is actually looking for a way to export/import the maemo5 address book20:49
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DocScrutinizervisz: (audible bell implementation for xterm) afaik there is none20:50
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lcukRST38h, theres many contact modification/lookup tools20:50
lcukinkbottle, no20:50
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lcuki dont see20:50
DocScrutinizerinkbottle: where's the problem?20:51
DocScrutinizerinkbottle: it's quite natural when carrier decides to expand to a fully qualified number for signalling20:52
ShadowJKoh luke-jr's going to love this20:52
* ShadowJK is reading deadtree-magazine20:52
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ShadowJKthey have article on a nokia research project, with the headline "Smart radios arriving in a couple of years"20:52
inkbottlelcuk: It is sort of "modified": the two forms "+33699999999" and "0699999999" refers to the same; but "0699999999" is for human and  "+33699999999" for carrier as DocScrutinizer would say :-)20:53
ShadowJKsoft radio :)20:53
ShadowJK"cognitive radio"20:53
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inkbottleDocScrutinizer: only since "+33699999999" is arriving, it is not recognized by the phone as one of the contacts20:54
DocScrutinizerinkbottle: again, where is the problem now?20:55
DocScrutinizer[2010-09-22 19:38:44] <inkbottle> If in your contacts you have an occurrence 06999... it is it that is matched20:55
DocScrutinizer[2010-09-22 19:38:57] <inkbottle> so not matched20:55
DocScrutinizer[20:55
DocScrutinizer[2010-09-22 19:47:29] <lcuk> and shows "Mum"20:55
DocScrutinizer[2010-09-22 19:47:39] <inkbottle> yes20:55
DocScrutinizer.oO(???)20:55
inkbottleDocScrutinizer: You have to tell people to put "+33699999999" instead of the usual "0699999999"; but then it's okay yes20:57
lcuk<lcuk> so in your contacts, you have "Mum: 0699999999"20:58
inkbottleSo at least it is a workaround20:58
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lcuk<lcuk> and if your mum calls in on "+33699999999" it works as expected20:58
lcuk<lcuk> and shows "Mum"20:58
lcuk<inkbottle> yes20:58
inkbottlelcuk: yes that's what every one does20:58
lcukinkbottle, ^^ that suggests20:58
satmdthe variant 069 is national, the variant +3369 is international20:58
lcukthat putting the 06999.. number is ok20:58
satmdand to add more fun, I see sip:0033 and sip:+33, too20:59
DocScrutinizersatmd: we are aware of that20:59
inkbottlelcuk: as satmd said20:59
DocScrutinizerthe sip: part is completely borked though20:59
* satmd nods20:59
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inkbottleso we have to put a copy of this conversation in the bug report21:00
DocScrutinizerinkbottle: satmd basically said nothing to support your abiguous point21:00
satmd:(21:00
inkbottleDocScrutinizer: I will not answer...21:00
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DocScrutinizerinkbottle: once you state it doesn't work fpor contacts like 0699999, then - as me *and* lcuk quoted you above - you say it works21:01
inkbottleI'm off bye21:01
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DocScrutinizerpfft21:01
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lcukthere has to be some reason for it, ahh well21:02
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: ok, confirmed, inbound +499112345678 doesn't match contact 0911234567821:05
DocScrutinizer(PR1.2)21:06
nuovodnahi, is it possible to run Symbian ^3 apps on maemo PR 1.2 ??21:06
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: I'd bet there's a config option to tweak matching, somewhere in gconf21:07
ShadowJKnuovodna, no, and not any other symbian apps either21:08
lcukDocScrutinizer, add that specific info including example numbers to the bug21:09
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DocScrutinizerI guess inkscape will do21:10
nuovodnaShadowJK, thanks21:10
satmdDocScrutinizer: I didn't add anything to his point, but I stressed something QA failed at testing21:10
luke-jrShadowJK: really? surely there's an old-Symbian emulator by now?21:11
lcukit might ping someone who can help DocScrutinizer21:11
ShadowJKI'd imagine there'd be greater chances to make a new symbian emulator21:11
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ShadowJKsince the old one isn't open source21:11
ShadowJKthe new one is probably more closed than maemo despite being "open source" :)21:12
DocScrutinizerhttp://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-May/005594.html21:12
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TiagoTiagohi21:47
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TiagoTiagoi heard a dingding and there is a symbol in my status bar alternating between a mail envelope and an S with a orange sparkle, but i don't see any new msg anhywhere; any idea?21:48
DocScrutinizer51lcuk: I'm more tempted to open a new ticket about why community can't fix #1030421:49
frals[21:47:35] -bartol.freenode.net- Server Terminating. Received SIGTERM21:49
frals:<21:49
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kfxhas anyone seen flasher-3.5 output "usb_bulk_write: Input/output error" with "Write failed after 0 bytes"?21:50
TiagoTiagohm, nvm, seems it was just a hiccup21:50
Stskeepskfx: reboot21:51
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kfxStskeeps: I have, several times21:51
TiagoTiagogotta go do some other stuff, cya21:51
kfxincluding by removing the battery and waiting an hour21:51
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mgedminkfx, I think I may have seen that when I accidentally used the wrong options, or passed the wrong filename21:52
kfxhmm21:52
DocScrutinizer51kfx: in this case it needs rebooting desktop PC though21:52
kfxit's correctly recognizing the diablo image21:52
kfxDocScrutinizer51: I've tried this on two machines21:52
DocScrutinizer51hmm21:53
mgedminah! yes, I was trying to write a n810's image onto a n900 or some other such mistake21:53
mgedminthe flasher correctly refused, but didn't provide a clear error message21:53
kfxboth linux, though.  I wonder if I'd have better luck with the osx flasher21:53
DocScrutinizer51bad cable? USB port starting to break?21:53
mgedminand I'm 95% sure the message I got was "write failed after 0 bytes"21:53
kfxFound device RX-44, hardware revision 080821:53
kfxfollowed by21:54
Stskeepskfx: what fiasco image do you use?21:54
kfxVersion of 'sw-release': RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_MR021:54
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kfxStskeeps: I originally tried to flash your meego kernel21:54
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Stskeeps-k ?21:54
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kfxbut now I'm just trying to but the nokia diablo image on21:54
kfxStskeeps: http://pastebin.com/L6m5rExZ21:55
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StskeepsN810, N800?21:56
kfxN81021:56
Stskeepsnot sure sorry21:56
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kfxso it goes, I guess21:57
Stskeepskfx: how did you flash the meego kernel?21:57
kfxStskeeps: I never did21:57
kfxoh you mean what command did I trie21:57
Stskeepsyeah21:57
kfxs/trie/try/;21:57
mgedminwhy does flasher-3.5 identify itself as "flasher v2.5.2"?21:57
mgedminnvm, mine does too21:58
DocScrutinizer51nonsense21:58
kfxflasher-3.5 -k vmlinuz-n810-meego-27July -l -b21:58
kfx(I had renamed the file)21:58
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lcukDocScrutinizer51, go for it then21:59
lcukbut I would rather you put those specific bits of info into the original report21:59
lcuksince that makes most sense21:59
DocScrutinizer51lcuk: well, while I'm on bugtracker site anyway, I may do this22:00
tripzerolcuk, seems like our meegotouch bug has gotten very little attention...22:01
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tripzeromaybe it's in the wrong component22:01
kfxnow I'm afraid to try with the n90022:02
Stskeepskfx: that looks fully non-destructable22:03
Stskeepskfx: sure your battery just isnt low?22:04
kfxStskeeps: I thought I was!22:04
kfxI'll leave it charging overnight when I leave work22:04
kfxcome back in the morning and maybe the hardware fairies will have fixed everything22:04
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DocScrutinizer51kfx: you're aware of the problem that proper charging depends on a booting system, and esp N8x0 can do nasty things to your battery if this prerequisite isn't met?22:11
DocScrutinizer51kfx: afaik N8x0 charging is *completely* sw-controlled by a linux userland process22:14
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: if discharging is nasty…22:17
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DocScrutinizer51discharging till dead probably is22:18
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kfxDocScrutinizer51: that's correct.22:19
DocScrutinizer51never stopping t charge like mad would be even more nasty, but chances to encounter this due to failing boot are small22:19
kfxthe n810 as it sits has a working diablo install on it22:19
slonopotamusluke-jr: sometimes i think you're just a troll... :)22:19
luke-jr22:20
DocScrutinizer51kfx: aah, k22:21
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RST38hslono: But, he actually is =)22:22
DocScrutinizer51XP22:22
Stskeepsluke-jr's a troll occasionally but he does cool work.22:22
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Stskeepswhich makes him an acceptable troll22:22
Stskeeps:P22:22
slonopotamusStskeeps: for example? :P22:22
Stskeepsslonopotamus: which, the trolling part or doing cool work?22:23
Stskeeps:P22:23
luke-jrStskeeps: NO U22:23
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wmaroneI don't think he's a troll, since he actually believes what he spouts :)22:23
luke-jrwmarone: it's truth!22:23
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RST38hAfter fifteen years of work on Internet Explorer, browser architect Chris Wilson is leaving Microsoft for Google22:29
slonopotamusoh my22:29
slonopotamusi wouldn't let him in :)22:29
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Arkenoiwell, ie6 was not bad at all22:30
Arkenoiactually it was the only one that could run on really outdated hardware among so-so "decent" browsers22:30
GAN900Pff22:31
slonopotamusyay! let the battle begin22:31
ShadikkaIE6 has so many sins that one virtue ain't gonna redeem it.22:31
ShadikkaSigned, all the web developers in the world.22:31
lcuktripzero, since I just had a bath, remind me22:31
RST38hLYNX. I wish more "web developers""developed" for it22:32
RST38hBtw, have they added JavaScript to LYNX already?22:33
slonopotamusi doubt22:33
wmaroneArkenoi: only because it was so unbelievably old and decrepit :)22:33
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Arkenoiwmarone, yes, but it was the only thing that could run on p5-75MHz and 32Mb RAM and still provide you reasonable browsing experience22:35
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Arkenoiopera was damn slow, ff out of the question completely22:35
SpeedEvilmozilla 4 - IIRC - should be fine22:35
Arkenoinope22:36
RST38hWhy do you need web browsers at all? GOPHER was quite sufficient.22:36
Arkenoiit was not, and it had no unicode22:36
SpeedEvilAdmittedly it's been a while.22:36
SpeedEvilAh.22:36
SpeedEvilI don't care about unicode.22:36
RST38hUnicode can burn in hell, indeed22:36
Arkenoii do, as i need cyrillic pages to be displayed properly22:36
ArkenoiRST38h, well, it is lesser evil22:36
RST38hArkenoi: cp1251.22:37
* RST38h hides now.22:37
jacekowskichildporn125122:37
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MohammadAGlol22:38
MohammadAGthat's kinda fucked up :P22:38
keriounicode is fucking awesome, RST38h sucks22:38
slonopotamusopera? slow? it was the only usable browser in late 90s (early 90s didn't have internets here yet :) )22:38
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Otto_Hi, any1 know how to umount the 200mb ext3 partition? I think my partition needs fixing ...22:40
kerioOtto_: tough luck22:40
MohammadAGcan't recall a 200MBs ext3 partition22:40
Otto_the aaa22:40
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Otto_um22:40
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Arkenoinope, it was slow. i bet you never tried it on 32Mb RAM. also, forget about linux, win98 worked better for it.22:40
jacekowskiom22:40
jacekowskinom nom om22:40
keriowhat's the aaa?22:40
Otto_its /dev/mcc...p222:40
Otto_actually,  /dev/mmcblk0p222:41
jacekowskimmm22:41
jacekowskithat's 2G22:41
jacekowskior 30G22:41
slonopotamus:)22:41
slonopotamusjacekowski: yeah, but he said it needs fixing22:41
Otto_p1 is the massmemory .... yeah that might be the 2G partition22:41
slonopotamusjacekowski: if it is 200M, it definitely needs it.22:41
jacekowskiflasb it22:42
kerioheh22:42
jacekowskiflash it22:42
Otto_I've done it too many times already22:42
Otto_:)22:42
Otto_my /sys is dated as 1.Jan.1970 :D22:42
MohammadAGeMMC22:42
jacekowskithen it get's complicated22:42
jacekowskithat's ok22:42
MohammadAGif eMMC + FIASCO reflash don't fix it22:42
MohammadAGit's a HW error22:42
slonopotamusOtto_: what a good day that was.22:43
jacekowskiOtto_: that time is ok22:43
kfxhttp://pastebin.com/c931X9GR  sigh22:43
Otto_:))22:43
jacekowskiOtto_: and you can't do anything about it22:43
kfxtime to buy another n810 I think22:43
Otto_ok thx22:43
Otto_yeah sounds a bit like HW error since im getting random resets with different firmwares22:43
Otto_the /var/log is empty always so I don't know how to debugit ... but the resets usually happens when I'mn using apt-get or the application manager22:44
jacekowskiwhat is a bootreason after that reset?22:44
BCMMRe: Otto's problem: is it ok to fsck a partition after remounting it with magic sysrq?22:44
mgedminremounting read-only, you mean?22:44
* wmarone wonders why MfE continues trying to check a deleted MfE account22:44
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Otto_I would liek to fsck.ext3 -p it but I donät know how to unmount it safely22:45
BCMMbecause while i don't think you can trigger it with teh KB, i notice that maemo does retain /proc/sysrq-trigger22:45
jacekowskiehhhh22:45
jacekowskidon't22:45
jacekowskithat date is on rootfs22:45
jacekowskinot on 2G partition22:45
jacekowskiand you can't fsck mounted fs22:45
Otto_well actually the problem is not the date22:45
Otto_it's fine22:45
jacekowskiso what is the problem?22:45
BCMMjacekowski: even if they're mounted read-only?22:45
jacekowskiBCMM: yep22:46
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Otto_Otto_> yeah sounds a bit like HW error since im getting random resets with different firmwares22:46
jacekowskiOtto_: what is a boot reason22:46
Otto_how do I check that22:46
jacekowskicat /proc/bootreason22:46
Otto_ah22:46
jacekowskiafter that random reset22:46
BCMMjacekowski: don't most distros check the root filesystem on bootup?22:47
jacekowskiand check dsme file that stores stuff22:47
jacekowskiBCMM: not anymore22:47
BCMM(and immediately reboot if they have to fix it)22:47
BCMMjacekowski: why's that?22:47
jacekowskijournaling22:47
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slonopotamus:/22:47
jacekowskikernel replays journal on mount22:47
Otto_Nokia-N900:~# cat /proc/bootreason22:47
Otto_ -> sw_rst22:47
Otto_thank gof22:48
Otto_god22:48
Otto_:)22:48
slonopotamusjacekowski: ext4 journals data too, not only metadata?22:48
jacekowskidepends on configuration22:48
jacekowskiyou can setup ext3 to do full journaling22:48
slonopotamusnever heard anyone did that22:49
BCMMjacekowski: also, my gentoo box checks every 28 days or 28 mounts, iirc22:49
BCMMi think ubuntu does the same22:49
BCMMjournaling is why it doesn't end up fscking the partition every time it finds it wasn't unmounted cleanly22:49
BCMMmost distro still check for consistancy every now and then22:49
Otto_jacekowski : dsme file : lots of IO errors on dev mmcblk0, sector xxxxx ... also Read-error on swap-device22:49
BCMM^distros22:49
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StskeepsOtto_: did you overclock?22:50
Stskeeps:P22:50
Otto_I have fresh pr.1222:50
Otto_:P22:50
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jacekowskiBCMM: only on ext322:50
Otto_but I tried it sometime ago but it was just at @900mhz and only for a several minutes22:50
BCMMjacekowski: to which bit?22:51
jacekowskiBCMM: that checking every 28 mounts22:51
jacekowskiand full journaling on any FS is bad idea22:51
jacekowskibecause data has to be written twice22:51
jacekowskiand journaling isn't to stop fscking partition22:52
jacekowskithat's very hard to do22:52
jacekowskiit's to stop fscking data22:52
Otto_jacekowski do you think that lots of IO errors in mmcblk0 indicates that my flash is rubbish?22:54
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jacekowskior your cpu22:55
StskeepsOtto_: i'd pretty much send it back for RMA22:55
jacekowskiflash it22:56
Otto_this is a company phone, maybe I just toss it and request for a new one but I would need enoguh of evidence that it is really broken22:56
StskeepsOtto_: I/O error on emmc is usually bad22:56
Otto_yeah22:57
Otto_and this wouldnt be the first n900 which has a bad flash22:57
Otto_I have flashed this phone so many times that I don't think it's a solution anymore22:57
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kerioYe find yerself in yon N900. Ye see a FLASH. Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.22:59
Otto_you don't happen to know if there is (or if it is even poosible) programs that would scan the flash, for example, for reading errors23:00
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GAN900Warranty?23:02
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keriothat's definetely a program that will fix your flash ;)23:03
Otto_no these company phones does not come with such a nice program ;)23:04
Otto_yeah I think there is no more to do23:04
jacekowskibadblock could do it23:04
Otto_thanks guys for the help23:04
Otto_badlock?23:05
Otto_block23:05
Otto_:P23:05
jacekowskibadblocks23:05
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jacekowskiwith S23:05
meceOMG I can't believe n900 beat the pre. Feels good to be in the most rabid community :D23:05
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Otto_http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5050623:07
Otto_there's the same error message mentioned in posts that mine has too23:07
Otto_verdict: internal memory broken23:07
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norayrhey, people23:13
norayrI have added four keyboard layouts to the ukeyboard project yesterday.23:13
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norayrIt can (and will) be used in maemo5 as well, right?23:13
Otto_jacekowski: badblocks program needs partition to be unmounted so I'm not able to run it on 2G drive23:15
DocScrutinizerbadblocks won't help on a flash stotage anyway, aiui23:16
DocScrutinizerphysical blocks of a flash chip aren't what the driver thinks they are23:16
norayrand no smartctl to see the count of relocated sectors, as flash does not relocate them afaik23:16
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DocScrutinizeractually the controller should relocate automatically and all the time23:17
MohammadAGis there a way to force a connection to a BT device w/o a pairkey?23:17
DocScrutinizernot sectors though, not even logical blocks, but phyical blocks23:17
MohammadAGmy old BT Microsoft mouse doesn't have a key, fremantle doesn't allow key-less pairs23:18
RST38h"Michael Jackson Themed MMO In the Works"23:18
RST38h"a massive social gaming experience" with "collaborative in-game activities,"23:18
DocScrutinizerfail :-P23:18
RST38hdepends23:18
Otto_DocScrutinizer what you say goes a little over my head but basically if the badblocks reports that it thinks that there are something gone wrong, could it be a indicaiton of a broken flash?23:19
lcukRST38h, depending on which world it could be cool23:19
DocScrutinizerprobably yes23:19
lcukhaving a Thriller area with zombies etc23:19
lcuk:D23:19
RST38hlcuk: did I say "cool"?23:19
lcuki did23:19
RST38hlcuk: I have been thinking more in terms of having a Neverland area...23:20
Otto_DocScrutinizer fair enough. I'm just gatherin as much as evidence for a good "business reason" for a new phone :)23:20
DocScrutinizerRST38h: fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail23:20
lcukRST38h, i hadnt23:20
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* lcuk is a half life veteran23:21
Otto_0.5% in five minutes... this is gonna take the whole night... better look for a charger23:21
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DocScrutinizerOtto_: badblocks is definitely doing no good to your flash23:22
luke-jrlol23:22
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Otto_it's reading the content of the block, saving it to temporary location and re-wrtiting the block with the same data?23:23
Otto_it's in in-destructibe mode23:23
luke-jrOtto_: fail23:23
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Otto_please be more accurate23:24
Otto_:)23:24
luke-jrOtto_: badblocks won't do anything other than possibly push it over the edge if it's close23:24
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Otto_I'm sorry maybe I'm a little retard or something but what do you mean by "push it over the edge"?23:25
luke-jrOtto_: I mean destroy it.23:25
Otto_how come accessing and writing to flash memory would destroy it?23:26
luke-jrprobably won't unless it's really on the edge, but in either case, it won't give you any useful info23:26
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luke-jrbecause writing to flash is wear and wear eventually destroys23:26
Otto_eventually yes, but in one run?23:27
wmaronewhich device is this?23:27
Otto_n90023:27
wmaronewell yes, which NAND device23:27
luke-jrOtto_: like I said, only if it's on the edge23:27
mgedminthere's only one NAND device on the n900; the other one is an eMMC23:27
DocScrutinizerOtto_: a physical block is some 256k on flash, badblocks does a r/w for each 4k logical block inside such a phy block23:27
mgedminI don't think you can run badblocks on the NAND device23:28
wmaronemgedmin: they're both NAND, one's onenand the other is eMMC :P23:28
luke-jrmgedmin: don't tempt him23:28
wmaroneanyway23:28
Otto_*processing data*23:28
DocScrutinizerso each block gets rewritten at least 64 times23:29
Otto_yes!23:29
Otto_so you think that flash won't last more than 64 rewrties?23:29
Otto_writes23:29
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: 128 since it's non-destructive writetest23:29
mgedminDocScrutinizer, I'd expect the device to start writing those 4k blocks into a new empty flash block, plus update the mapping table23:29
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DocScrutinizerand till - due the the controller hiding away phy block swapping for wear leveling - badblocks doesn't give you *any* useful result23:29
luke-jrmgedmin: there is no mapping table afaik23:29
DocScrutinizers/til/still23:30
mgedminwriting the whole 128k every time you modify 4k inside it would be insane23:30
DocScrutinizerlcuk: ack23:30
DocScrutinizererr luke-jr23:30
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mgedminok, I actually have no idea how the eMMC emulates a block device on top of NAND23:31
RST38hmgedmin: but you can experiment with it23:32
mgedminsure, send me 10 n900's and I'll experiment23:32
RST38hmgedmin: start writing a file, block by block. Measure time to write each block.23:32
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mgedmin"how many 4k writes to make the eMMC unusable"23:32
RST38hmgedmin: if every fourth block takes much more time to write, there is an internal buffer23:32
RST38hmgedmin: no, that is now what I suggest testing23:33
Otto_:))23:33
Otto_this is getting funny23:33
RST38hyou do not want to wear out the eMMC, just find out how it caches block writes23:33
DocScrutinizerOtto_: actually the controller is supposed to kick out bad phy blocks in an opaque manner, so if any IO-errors are occurring it's a strong indication the NAND is defect. Though there also might be complete messup of logical structures, which *maybe* could be fixed by a reflash, so I suggest flashing eMMC image (VANILLA)23:33
Otto_ah, okay23:34
Otto_so the controller would handle the badblocks "automatically" ?23:34
Otto_so every block badblocks program write are usable23:34
Otto_so it's waste of time running it23:35
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norayrIf controller will remap "bad" blocks23:35
Otto_yeah23:35
norayrthen you may do dd if=/dev/zero of=yourdevice23:35
norayrbecause writing to the bad sector will force controller to remap "sectors"23:35
Otto_every nand flash bad blocks when they are shipped so they must be remapped23:35
DocScrutinizernorayr: or that, even better than reflash23:35
Otto_genious!23:36
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norayr:)23:36
Otto_so what exactly dd does, writes all the data ?23:36
Otto_sorry23:36
norayrdisk dump23:36
ioanhi all. where are the app icons kept?23:36
satmdit will overwrite with 023:37
norayrwhich writes from input file to output file23:37
Otto_so I SHOULD backup23:37
Otto_first23:37
Otto_:)23:37
DocScrutinizer:nod:23:37
satmdyes.23:37
norayrif you give /dev/zero as an input file, it will read zeros23:37
norayrand write to the desired destination23:37
Otto_but23:37
norayrunless it fill whole drive with zeros23:37
tripzerolcuk, the bug where meegotouch apps don't build in maemo23:37
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ioanany idea where are the app icons kept?23:38
DocScrutinizerOtto_: you'll want to umount the partition in question23:38
Otto_yeah but thats the problem23:38
Otto_how do I umount the 2G partitinoi23:38
tripzeroioan, /usr/share/applications/hildon/23:38
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tripzeroiirc23:38
norayrjust umount /dev/mmc1 or something23:38
Otto_device busy23:38
ioantripzero: thanks23:38
Otto_sine /home and /opt are located on the 2G drive23:38
norayrhm. on n810/diablo I do it easily. may be it is busy because there are open files from that partition?23:39
DocScrutinizerumount -f23:39
Otto_and /home/user/MyDocs are the rest what are left after the rootfs and the storage for the programs, the 2G drive23:39
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norayror because you cd-d there23:39
Otto_iforcing umount won't help23:39
Otto_hmm23:39
norayrclose all the programs, and run terminal again, become root, and do umount23:39
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norayryou even may reboot the device23:40
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DocScrutinizerit's tricky, and maybe not even feasible23:40
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Otto_I run lsof | and grepped all programs which were running from the 2G partition and xarged then to killall23:40
norayrin order to make sure nothing uses it23:40
norayrnice :)23:40
Otto_tried to ujmount afterward23:40
Otto_didn't work23:40
norayraha23:40
Otto_sorry for the typos23:40
norayrand what lsof says?23:40
Otto_:)23:41
Otto_there were couple of programs using the partition23:41
DocScrutinizera lot of processes will respawn when killed23:41
norayreven after the kill?23:41
norayrtry to reboot it, srsly23:41
DocScrutinizerwon't help23:41
Otto_i've rebooted many times23:41
norayrhmmm23:41
norayrok23:41
norayryou have /home staff there?23:42
Otto_sorry ? :)23:42
DocScrutinizercamer-ui I guess is one of those respawning processes that have a filehandle to /home23:42
DocScrutinizera lot of others have handles to /opt23:42
Otto_yeah23:42
Otto_and hildon23:42
Otto_etc23:42
norayri wonder why some software uses it. if you keep /home staff on mmc,23:42
norayrthen23:43
norayrwhat I would do23:43
norayrjust a minute23:43
Otto_:)23:43
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DocScrutinizersshd maybe will survive a umount -f23:43
norayryou have a symlink pointong from your /home/MyDocs or something to mmc, right?23:43
Otto_home/user/MyDocs23:43
norayrif you sshd as root, yes23:43
Otto_yeeah23:43
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norayrDo you have another, external card as well?23:44
Otto_I left it to work :(23:44
norayrI would copy MyDocs to the external card, and edit symlink, or remove, and make a new symlink pointing to the new destination23:44
norayrthis way reboot will definitely work23:44
norayrhmmm23:44
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DocScrutinizernorayr: the problem isn't MyDocs, the problem is the 2GB /home partition, which happens to have /home/opt as well23:45
Otto_the MyDocs23:45
norayrok, then just copy all the info, and then replace the symlink  MyDocs pointong to /media/mmcX/MyDocs with the folder MyDocs23:45
Otto_yeah..23:45
norayrYes, I also keep /opt on an mmc23:46
Otto_rootfs                  227.9M    132.2M     91.5M  59% /23:46
norayron mmc23:46
Otto_/dev/mmcblk0p2            2.0G    276.5M      1.6G  14% /home23:46
Otto_/home/opt                 2.0G    276.5M      1.6G  14% /opt23:46
norayr:)23:46
DocScrutinizernorayr: see: --->23:46
DocScrutinizer~optification23:46
infobotsomebody said optification was a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence323:46
DocScrutinizernorayr: it's absolutely nontrivial23:46
norayrok, but I guess system will work fine without opt23:46
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DocScrutinizershould, yes23:46
DocScrutinizerat least in runlevel S23:47
norayrThen just replace /opt and MyDoc symlinks with a folders with the same name23:47
norayrnames23:47
DocScrutinizerbut I fear that's exactly the point, maemo is fubar here23:47
Otto_"duct tape workaround"23:47
Otto_:DD23:47
norayrI did it many times. Transferred /home an /opt from external mmc to internal, formatted external, installed meego on it, then, dissatisfied with results, moved everything back to the external23:48
norayrI mean, it's not dangerous.23:49
norayrFirst, backup your data23:49
Otto_instead of 2G  rootfs user will not lose programs settings as they are stored in the different partition than the partition which is flashed...23:49
norayrI would do it with scp23:49
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Otto_im on sftp already23:49
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norayrAnd then you have nothing to loose, umount it, dd zeros on it, move everything back23:50
DocScrutinizerOtto_: maybe just do the dd, and forget about ther completely fsckdup fs this will cause. Just remove battery after dd is done, then reflash eMMC23:50
Otto_so move /home and /opt to external card, symlink then there and after boot the 2G partition should be unmountable23:50
DocScrutinizerand rootfs23:50
norayrgenau!23:50
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Otto_that's shoudl do it but I will lose every settings23:51
Otto_but maybe thats fair enough if it fixes my n90023:51
DocScrutinizerOtto_: do a backup using backup app23:52
norayrIf you don't reflash, you don't loose settings23:52
norayrThough I would even reflash it23:52
DocScrutinizerit does an amazingly good job on restoring settings23:52
Otto_I have noticed that too23:52
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norayrActually, even if you reflash23:52
Otto_thanks to apt-get it also very convinient backup/restore23:52
norayrSettings backed up with home23:52
norayryep23:52
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Otto_when I flash rootfs will be overwritten, dd will over wrtitten the 2G drive and emmc will overwrite the rest23:53
DocScrutinizerI'd just copy ~user/* somewhere outside eMMC23:53
Otto_only backup is in external storage23:53
Otto_emmc = emmc flashing23:53
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Otto_but23:54
DocScrutinizerOtto_: actually you should start 2 dd concurrently. One to the /home device and one to the MyDocs device23:54
Otto_the emmc flash can be erased with ERASE fiasco file?23:54
DocScrutinizermaybe even do a swapoff and start a third dd to swap partition23:54
Otto_how about repartioning the whole flash?23:55
Otto_would it be simplier?23:55
DocScrutinizercan be done during flashing23:55
Otto_there are good documentation in the internet23:55
norayryou need to write to the "bad" sectors23:56
DocScrutinizersee http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools23:56
DocScrutinizerfirst §23:56
Otto_wait my atom is still loading23:56
DocScrutinizeror simply do of=mmcblk023:56
Otto_:D23:56
norayrI have recovered my 500gb hdd with reiserfs that way recently23:56
DocScrutinizer...this way you'll 'flat-out' the whole eMMC at once23:57
Otto_yes23:57
Otto_thats the point of this discussion23:57
norayrexactly :)23:57
Otto_but23:57
Otto_they are still mounted23:57
Otto_ah23:57
norayrAnd not backed up23:58
Otto_backup, force dd, re-flash whole thng23:58
Otto_that's should do it23:58
DocScrutinizerdd won't care when writing to physical device23:58
Otto_yeah23:58
norayr:)23:58
Otto_but what if the hw problem is in the controller itself? :)23:58
DocScrutinizer/dev/mmcblk0 doesn't know bout mounts23:58
norayrit's not that likely23:58
DocScrutinizernor bout partitions23:59
Otto_I'm emailing my self to work... which was the dd line ?23:59

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