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| asj | Milo-: ir I beleive | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| asj | Milo-: you can watch is working by poiting a camera at it | 00:01 |
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| Milo- | hard to define its type like that | 00:02 |
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| lardman | must be long wave IR if you can see it with a camera but not the eye | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | nope. | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Longwave IR is thermal IR | 00:05 |
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| lardman | long-long wave then | 00:05 |
| lardman | I have a long wave IR camera | 00:05 |
| lardman | :) | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | IR LEDs arejust outside the visible band | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | typically anyway | 00:05 |
| lardman | yeah | 00:05 |
| Kegetys | it is IR | 00:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | 'UV' LEDs typically just inside. | 00:06 |
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| lardman | near-IR they call it don't they? | 00:06 |
| asj | Milo-: not at all... | 00:06 |
| asj | Milo-: it flashes an ir led and looks for the relection | 00:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | lardman; yes | 00:07 |
| asj | the only reason it doesn't use visible is because that would annoy us humans... | 00:07 |
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| lardman | doh, is short-short wave IR then of course | 00:08 |
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| lardman | it's an LED + LDR pair I guess, from the look of it anyway | 00:09 |
| lardman | assuming I'm looking at the right thing | 00:09 |
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| asj | of all things it isn't is an LDR, but anyways ;) | 00:10 |
| lardman | what is it then? | 00:11 |
| SpeedEvil | phototransistor prolly | 00:11 |
| Milo- | datasheet would be so much clearer :) | 00:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | possibly an integrated module | 00:11 |
| lardman | hmm, didn't get many phototransistors in my CDT classes :) | 00:11 |
| * SpeedEvil has so much random crap to try with the n900. | 00:11 | |
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| adalal | heya... | 00:12 |
| adalal | what is soft poweroff | 00:12 |
| adalal | ? | 00:12 |
| pwnguin | usually when a computer powers itself off | 00:13 |
| pwnguin | via software | 00:13 |
| Milo- | but if it's a photo resistor or transistor, shouldn't it go mental in the dark? | 00:13 |
| asj | lardman: photoresistors tend to be big long things, photodiodes/phototransistors/etc can be very small | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | asj: http://sparkbangbuzz.com/cds-fet/cds-fet.htm - off-topic | 00:13 |
| lardman | asj: ah ok | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Milo-: no - it's working of reflected light | 00:13 |
| Milo- | ah | 00:14 |
| Milo- | I see | 00:14 |
| lardman | though I wonder how they stop incident near IR from triggering it? | 00:14 |
| Milo- | heh | 00:14 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: either high levels - or modulation | 00:14 |
| Milo- | I don't have any ir devices :( | 00:14 |
| cehteh | modulation for sure | 00:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Milo-: all IRs | 00:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Milo-: remote controls ratehr | 00:14 |
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| lardman | SpeedEvil: well my ear is hot so even if it's not reflective.... :) | 00:15 |
| Milo- | still, don't have any :P | 00:15 |
| pwnguin | lardman: keep in mind the LED emits basically a single wavelength | 00:15 |
| lardman | yep | 00:15 |
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| pwnguin | lardman: so you should be able to tune the sensor to it versus the broad ambient spectrum | 00:15 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: thermal IR (from humans) is in the ~10um range. The IR LED is in the 1um range wavelength. | 00:15 |
| lardman | I was taking the mick don't worry :) | 00:15 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman: though not if the human in question is on fire of course. | 00:15 |
| Milo- | how about, what causes vibration in n900? | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | A little motor | 00:16 |
| asj | also keep in mind you can measure incident light before the pulse, so you just look for the increase if any and then decrease after the pulse | 00:16 |
| Milo- | I mean how to trigger such in own code? | 00:16 |
| * cehteh actually wondered why one couldnt used the frontcam for all this things, proximity, brightness sensor and stuff | 00:16 | |
| SpeedEvil | with a weight on it | 00:16 |
| adalal | what's the name of the x program? | 00:16 |
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| adalal | on maemo5? | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Milo-: the right way is to use mce to trigger it | 00:16 |
| Milo- | Yes I know how the vibrator works :P | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: the prox sensor can have very low standby current | 00:16 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: the camera can't. | 00:16 |
| crashanddie | frals: it feels so weird having the moral high-ground (re: post on mailing list) | 00:16 |
| cehteh | leaving the brightness sensor and proximity sensor out would given 3 euros more for the front cam ... meaning they could use one with much better quality :P | 00:16 |
| asj | cehteh: power consumption I bet, plus you need lgiht at night to see how far away your head is | 00:17 |
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| Milo- | SpeedEvil but how to make such event? | 00:17 |
| crashanddie | frals: it's a position I had never taken before, I might try it more often | 00:17 |
| Milo- | suppose they are exceptions, rather than events | 00:17 |
| asj | cehteh: you sure it's as much as 3 euro? | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: the front camera will have cost around 1 euro. The prox sensor and brightness sensor perhaps another 0.5 | 00:17 |
| frals | crashanddie: gotta be a first for everything ;) | 00:17 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: i dont mean to run the frontcam as cam .. but with some proper firmware this should be feasible | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: it's possible | 00:17 |
| crashanddie | anyway, I'm off to work, talk later | 00:18 |
| lardman | cu crashanddie | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: but you have to have the camera active a fair proportion of the time. And to read brightness from it - the CPU has to be largely active. | 00:18 |
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| cehteh | well they could really spend a little more on the frontcam | 00:18 |
| adalal | anyone knows what x terminal runs on maemo5? | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: with the prox sensor - you simply wait or an interrupt | 00:18 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: preliminary tests indicate that it's not meeting the specs in the datasheet - by a _LONG_ way | 00:18 |
| lardman | adalal: the term or the shell? | 00:18 |
| adalal | term | 00:19 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: seem mouses .. they have basically small camera chips (16x16 pixel or even less) and run at very high fps and dont need much power | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I need to get a proper lightbox setup | 00:19 |
| adalal | lardman: term | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: sure. | 00:19 |
| cehteh | laser and ir mouses the ones without balls | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: and the camera doesn't do that. | 00:19 |
| cehteh | i bet one could design a camera which can be used for such purposes | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: and a custom camera would cost more | 00:19 |
| lardman | adalal: is called "X Terminal" | 00:19 |
| cehteh | well too late for sorry. it is like it is | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: mobile phone cameras are _total_ commodities. | 00:20 |
| adalal | lardman: how do you start it, on, say xephyr, on a remote computer? | 00:20 |
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| lardman | adalal: osso-xterm | 00:20 |
| adalal | thanks | 00:20 |
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| cehteh | SpeedEvil: well the main cam is certainly not that cheap | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: it's $35 as a spare part | 00:21 |
| cehteh | quite impressive for that | 00:21 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: at least to authorised repairers. | 00:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | cehteh: so calling it about half that in volume probably isn't unreasonable. | 00:22 |
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| adalal | lardman: i can't get osso-xterm to start up on my computer's xephyr session... any idea why? | 00:24 |
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| lardman | adalal: no idea sorry, I don't use sb x86 target | 00:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hmm. Neat. | 00:33 |
| SpeedEvil | you can run hildon-status-menu with DISPLAY exported to your laptop or wherever to see phone status. | 00:34 |
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| frals | SpeedEvil: cool :> | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh - wacky. | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | hildon-home too. | 00:36 |
| * SpeedEvil has icons and widgets all over his laptop | 00:36 | |
| areay | hi all... i'm in the uk, some of my buddies that live in other countries tell me there's an n900 fw update. how come i can't get it here? nokia says it was released on feb 16th | 00:36 |
| ali1234 | i got it yesterday | 00:37 |
| SpeedEvil | ali1234: in the UK? | 00:37 |
| ali1234 | yes | 00:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Also uin the UK, and no update | 00:37 |
| ali1234 | although last time i reflashed (PR1.1) the UK specific firmware was not available | 00:37 |
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| ali1234 | the UK specific firmware always seems to come later than the others | 00:37 |
| areay | yeah its pretty annoying. im not even british and i feel discriminated | 00:38 |
| ali1234 | so i'm on international right now | 00:38 |
| ali1234 | and i still got the 1.1.1 update a day later than other people | 00:38 |
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| areay | ali1234 is there any difference? | 00:38 |
| ali1234 | no idea | 00:38 |
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| ali1234 | no noticable ones | 00:38 |
| ali1234 | i didn't go looking | 00:38 |
| areay | is the keybo | 00:39 |
| areay | kb layout the same* | 00:39 |
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| cehteh | there are not that much fixes in 1.1.1 .. you dont need to hurry with the update | 00:43 |
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| asj | unless you have wifi battery drain issues | 00:43 |
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| lardman | close escape there, nearly sneezed coffee over my N900 | 00:47 |
| Lumpio- | Your life sure is an exciting adventure. | 00:47 |
| lardman | yeah, I thought you'd all be interested to hear the exciting news and all ;) | 00:47 |
| * Arif burps | 00:49 | |
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| maher | anyone running an n900 on t-mobile in the usa? I don't seem to be getting 3g reception | 00:56 |
| Xisdibik_n900 | i am maher | 00:56 |
| Xisdibik_n900 | granted i have mine set to GSM only now, but i have no issues getting 3G when i need it | 00:57 |
| maher | i see all these bars and underneath a 2.5 - i assume that means I am on EDGE not 3G | 00:57 |
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| Arif | I'm on TMobile but not in the US ={ | 00:58 |
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| maher | Xisdibik_n900: how do you toggle back and forth between gsm only? | 00:58 |
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| Arif | oo | 01:00 |
| Arif | it's Friday! | 01:00 |
| Arif | says mIRC o.o | 01:00 |
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| juhovh | yeah, it's Friday :P | 01:01 |
| juhovh | been for an hour | 01:01 |
| Arif | zomg | 01:01 |
| Arif | stop living in the future! | 01:01 |
| Xisdibik_n900 | maher, in the phone section of settinhs, or there is an app in the repos to add it to the status area thing | 01:02 |
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| Arif | hmm | 01:02 |
| Arif | the media player is hating me | 01:02 |
| Arif | ;( | 01:02 |
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| maher | Xisdibik_n900: thanks! why on earth don't they default to 3g? | 01:03 |
| maher | Xisdibik_n900: anyway - you probably saved me four hours of digging through the settings and google... | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | maher: it's a complex answer - the cell-towers can broadcast hints | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | as to signal levels the phone should switch at | 01:03 |
| * Arif hands maher the 2G/3G switcher applet | 01:04 | |
| maher | well - now it says 3g - we'll see if i can actually get some packets in or out.... | 01:05 |
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| maher | oooOOOOoooo - now it says 3.5 !!!! | 01:06 |
| maher | so if i go somewhere where there is no 3g will i have to manually switch back to gsm? | 01:07 |
| Arif | no | 01:07 |
| Arif | wait | 01:07 |
| Arif | did you set it to 3G or DUAL | 01:07 |
| Xisdibik_n900 | maher, it defaults to both i think, but i could be wrong, are you sure there is 3g in your area? | 01:08 |
| maher | well it says 3g now | 01:08 |
| ShadowJK | The default is "Dual", which switches between 2g and 3g depending on signal levels and network configuration | 01:09 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:20 |
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| lardman | likewise, night all | 01:25 |
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| maher | hmmm.... skype seems happy but other internet thingsok - epc.tmobile.com doesn't work for me but internet2.voicestream.com works just fine | 01:29 |
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| wazd | wow | 01:43 |
| * lcuk pokes wazd | 01:43 | |
| wazd | Someone has located nice korean 810 blog :) | 01:43 |
| wazd | http://do1not3panic8.blogspot.com/ | 01:43 |
| lcuk | heh | 01:44 |
| lcuk | can you read it | 01:44 |
| lcuk | cos i cant | 01:44 |
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| wazd | lcuk: gtranslate it to your favourite language :) | 01:48 |
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| lcuk | if i did that, i still would not understand it, there is something aluring about hearing a lady speak french lol | 01:49 |
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| frals | lol | 01:49 |
| lcuk | hey there frals | 01:49 |
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| frals | evening | 01:50 |
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| frals | hows you? | 01:50 |
| lcuk | just got out of the bath, had a long but productive day | 01:50 |
| lcuk | managed to get rid of green flashes on startup of liqbase | 01:51 |
| frals | cool :) | 01:51 |
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| lcuk | indeed, still not gone from everywhere, but it makes things a bit more comfortable | 01:52 |
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| frals | hmpf, seems i cant get 2 gprs connections up anymore.. im almost certain i could do that before :< | 01:54 |
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| lcuk | frals, ive had that fight many times, undo the commit | 01:56 |
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| frals | ive not changed anything, but i suspect pr1.1.1 did | 01:56 |
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| lcuk | frals, you have a dev device now dont you? | 01:57 |
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| frals | yeah, had it not been 01 i wouldve reflashed it | 01:58 |
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| lcuk | if you are comfortable flashing it, could you backport yourself to 1.1 or 1.0 and confirm | 01:58 |
| lcuk | it would be interesting to know really | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | sounds like English though :-S | 02:00 |
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| lcuk | frals pushes gits on the bus | 02:04 |
| lcuk | then laughs like a schoolgirl | 02:04 |
| frals | lol | 02:04 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, which does | 02:04 |
| lcuk | is git in extras then | 02:05 |
| lcuk | or just devel | 02:05 |
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| frals | think its devel not sure | 02:05 |
| frals | theres a few different ones as well | 02:05 |
| frals | had me confused as i had git-core on one device and just 'git' on the other and they didnt include the same stuff :P | 02:05 |
| lcuk | no | 02:06 |
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| lcuk | and when i was using it | 02:06 |
| lcuk | i could only get the n8x0 version | 02:06 |
| frals | seems maemo.org/packages went to sleep now as well | 02:06 |
| lcuk | boo | 02:07 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, do you know when -devel -testing came on line? | 02:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, devel's been around forever | 02:07 |
| frals | guess i should take that as a sign i should head to bed as well | 02:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | -testing was created as part of the runnup for Maemo 5 | 02:07 |
| frals | nite everyone o/ | 02:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, August/September-ish? | 02:07 |
| lcuk | nite frals | 02:08 |
| lcuk | yeah most likely GeneralAntilles and id forgotten -devel and main repo | 02:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | too hard to decode, bbl | 02:09 |
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| chickengeorge_n | irc://irc.freenode.net/bratwurst SUPPORT-CHANNEL | 02:14 |
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| lcuk | anyone got eMMC benchmarks for the n900 with different filesystems? | 02:15 |
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| kynky | like ith fat or logfs or jffs2 ? | 02:17 |
| kynky | with* | 02:17 |
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| ShadowJK | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=504332#post504332 | 02:19 |
| ShadowJK | ^^ benchmarks | 02:19 |
| ShadowJK | The number that matters for a OS drive for a multitasking OS is the random read and write performance | 02:19 |
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| lcuk | thanks ShadowJK \o | 02:21 |
| ShadowJK | 5573.1 on nand vs 727.3 ext3 on emmc | 02:21 |
| lcuk | i didnt think they would be findable lol | 02:21 |
| lcuk | those threads are easy to lose your sanity let alone important info | 02:21 |
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| cehteh | RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=535666#post535666 finished | 02:29 |
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| lcuk | ~cehteh++ | 02:32 |
| cehteh | :) | 02:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | cehteh, package it! :P | 02:34 |
| lcuk | cehteh, could you add the build command/dependencies somewhere please | 02:34 |
| lcuk | yes, thats acceptable too ;) | 02:34 |
| cehteh | GeneralAntilles: i asked RST38h if he will package it together with xchat, he acknowledged that, makes more sense for me and less work | 02:34 |
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| cehteh | lcuk: compiling is descriped in a earlier post on that thread, you need to unpack xchat in the same dir (apt-get source xchat) because i dont know if there is a offical -dev package or how to access the xchat devl headers | 02:36 |
| cehteh | the plugin on the post is without -g and -Os | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | 'vibrator is only active when the display is on' ? | 02:37 |
| cehteh | off | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | is that backwards? | 02:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | oh | 02:37 |
| * SpeedEvil missed the not | 02:37 | |
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| cehteh | i being pedantic there | 02:37 |
| cehteh | actually there is also a 'dimmed' state | 02:38 |
| cehteh | current software doesnt use it much (when its going off it goes through dim) | 02:38 |
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| lcuk | ceh900, i think thats configurable anyway | 02:38 |
| ToiletOil | http://img.arkenklo.net/maemo_error.png | 02:38 |
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| ShadowJK | on Maemo4 the "dim" state lasted much longer | 02:38 |
| lcuk | ToiletOil, classy! how did you manage that | 02:39 |
| cehteh | haha | 02:39 |
| ToiletOil | a bit of dbus magic | 02:40 |
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| lcuk | you mean you played for this error? or it happened with normal reproducable steps | 02:41 |
| lcuk | cehteh, ive noticed a bug in your post | 02:41 |
| lcuk | its a 666 get, so we cannot install it | 02:42 |
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| ToiletOil | nah, it's just a standard system notification, I issued it myself | 02:42 |
| ToiletOil | but it's pretty funny | 02:42 |
| cehteh | 666 get? | 02:42 |
| lcuk | yeah cehtahyour post ends in 666 :p | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a 4chan thing. | 02:43 |
| ToiletOil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#dbus-send-notification | 02:43 |
| GAN900 | cehteh, does it have a throttler? | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | 4chan /b/ is like TMO - but with more intellectual debate. | 02:43 |
| cehteh | GAN900: feel free to add one .. at least having to tap 1000 dialogs is nasty, i considered that too | 02:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: told ya it's nasty | 02:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: know | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: what | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: i | 02:48 |
| cehteh | haha | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: mean | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: ? | 02:48 |
| cehteh | /notify_mode -d | 02:48 |
| cehteh | on the other hand if you look at the morning at your device and you see what people wanted from you during night its nice | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody needst that | 02:49 |
| cehteh | i like it | 02:49 |
| cehteh | (hey i programmed it because *I* like it this way) | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd prefer a dedicated tab for such purpose, like URL-collector | 02:50 |
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| cehteh | nice idea, where is your xchar plugin doing that? | 02:50 |
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| GAN900 | cehteh, yeah, very similar to Growl for that. | 02:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually it's called "URL Grabber" | 02:52 |
| cehteh | highlight grabber in this case rather :) | 02:52 |
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| * timeless_mbp cries | 02:55 | |
| * timeless_mbp looks for someone familiar w/ apache | 02:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: don't forget to credit me for original idea when you implement it ;-) | 02:55 |
| cehteh | i rather dont | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah it's too simple | 02:57 |
| cehteh | well i had the original idea for your idea, which means a irc client which dispatches based on rules, not only channel tabs but you make destinations which can be multiple channels, regex matches and so on | 02:57 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, shortly after N900 was announced I started taking a 4chan approach to tmo. Drive-by-posting. When threads scroll off the first page I consider them dead | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: yeah - it's broken that way | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: as it encourages it | 02:57 |
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| ToiletOil | alright, now I've managed to stream the camera of my n900 to my desktop, tunnel audio input, and I can also issue espeak commands via ssh. I think I'll set it up in the livingroom and see what the reactions are | 02:57 |
| cehteh | ToiletOil: but you lost your keyboard :) | 02:58 |
| ToiletOil | cehteh: who need a keyboard when you've got ssh | 02:58 |
| cehteh | hehe true | 02:58 |
| kynky | the thing that annoys me most about tmo, is the thing where ppl are just trying to get highest post count, lots of pointless mesages, prob like 90 | 02:59 |
| kynky | 90% | 02:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ToiletOil: don't forget the dangerous vib hum as soon as anybody approaches device :-P | 02:59 |
| ToiletOil | DocScrutinizer: I like a robotic "I can see you" a lot better | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | "I got a poison sting!" BZZZZZZZZZZZ | 03:02 |
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| * timeless_mbp frowns | 03:28 | |
| timeless_mbp | so... no one wants to help me? | 03:28 |
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| ShadowJK | I have this impression apache is like this behemoth steampunk machine, it has a zillion levers and switches and can do anything as long as you find someone to shovel the coal and operate the levers :/ | 03:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: wanna help me anyway? | 03:33 |
| ToiletOil | ShadowJK: yeah, pretty much | 03:33 |
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| * timeless_mbp kicks tar for abuse of English | 03:33 | |
| matthew- | Re. | 03:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | ToiletOil: are you familiar w/ apache? :) | 03:35 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm not familiar with apache... I edited a apache 1.x config 9 years ago to make /~username/ work, or something silly like that.. | 03:36 |
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| ToiletOil | timeless_mbp: only to some extent | 03:36 |
| ToiletOil | I use lighttpd on my server | 03:36 |
| timeless_mbp | my problems are simple | 03:36 |
| timeless_mbp | wanna try helping? :) | 03:37 |
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| * mtd takes it the n900's phone UI is not open-source, right? | 04:01 | |
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| jebba900 | timeless_mbp what's up? didnt see scrollback | 04:04 |
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| jebba900 | may need to open ports if its firewall issue | 04:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | jebba900: i can't convince apache to run my scripts | 04:04 |
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| jebba | timeless_mbp: ok, msging you | 04:13 |
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| fureddo | In this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Redesigning_From_Maemo_4_to_Maemo_5#Dialogs Anyone knows what is the Qt widget used to render the line separating each section of the dialog? | 04:16 |
| fureddo | The horizontal line. | 04:17 |
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| swc|666 | http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/classes.html | 04:17 |
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| fureddo | ... | 04:18 |
| swc|666 | fureddo, qframe maybe | 04:19 |
| swc|666 | http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/qframe.html | 04:19 |
| swc|666 | http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/images/frames.png | 04:19 |
| jebba | timeless_mbp: fixed http://ec2-72-44-51-255.compute-1.amazonaws.com/index.cgi | 04:19 |
| jebba | ciao | 04:19 |
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| fureddo | Yeah, looks like so. Thanks! | 04:19 |
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| TTilus | timeless_mbp: why is that you dont wanna go ask #apache? | 06:40 |
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| Jef91 | is there some kind of trick to getting my AIm to connect under VOIP/IM accounts? it works under pidgin on my n900 but not under IM in the conersation | 06:47 |
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| MiXu- | There's a plugin pack for that | 07:35 |
| MiXu- | in extras | 07:35 |
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| Guest85276 | hi,there | 08:28 |
| johnx | m00f | 08:28 |
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| Guest85276 | setenv IRCNICK eric.leopard | 08:30 |
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| slonopotamus | meh... microb is painfully slow on n800 after 3 months with n900 | 08:44 |
| villemv | use tear | 08:44 |
| villemv | it's not slow, merely buggy :-) | 08:44 |
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| slonopotamus | sloow. i get 'javascript on this page is runninng slowly, stop it?' here and there. | 08:45 |
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| sejo | hey all when you are writing a python app for the maemo what db do you use? sqlite? | 08:59 |
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| villemv | sejo: sqlite | 09:09 |
| villemv | sejo: ditto for other apps using a db, basically | 09:10 |
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| sejo | villemv: thx | 09:13 |
| sejo | hmm when I lounch the xephyr (scratchbox) I see almost no apps, aftec /scratchbox/login trying to do fakeroot apt-get update tells me it can't connect | 09:14 |
| sejo | how do I get connection? | 09:14 |
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| sejo | someone knows how to connect with the scratchbox install to internet so I can update the target? | 09:32 |
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| adeus | make sure /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is ok | 09:32 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:34 |
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| sejo | adeus: thanks | 09:35 |
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| sejo | hmm my scratchbox doesn't find python2.5-qt4-gui | 09:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | TTilus: well, given that jebba fixed my problem for me, it doesn't seem right to bother them | 10:02 |
| timeless_mbp | it surely was an RTFM case | 10:03 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'm not interested in learning 200 toolchain components | 10:03 |
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| Khertan | Hello ... ! | 10:44 |
| Khertan | Does there is a problem with drop.maemo.org ? | 10:44 |
| Shrik3 | someone dropped it | 10:45 |
| Shrik3 | and it fell | 10:45 |
| Khertan | oh oh oh ... | 10:46 |
| Khertan | :) | 10:46 |
| Khertan | Oh my god ... got a mail from the backup nas ... Disk Full | 10:47 |
| Khertan | huhu | 10:47 |
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| kalikiana | reboot loop after SSU.. not nice | 10:50 |
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| Lantizia1 | Morning! | 11:38 |
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| crashanddie | yo everyone | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | I need some help here, can anyone fill me in on what's been happening with SIO2? | 11:51 |
| ericleopard | hi | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | discussion still going on, i think | 11:51 |
| crashanddie | yeah, but what happened with the software and such? | 11:51 |
| nid0 | they created several fake accts to vote up their own software into extras | 11:51 |
| nid0 | without it actually getting tested properly | 11:51 |
| crashanddie | ok, and? | 11:52 |
| nid0 | they got found out | 11:52 |
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| crashanddie | that's it? | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44928 is a good summary :P | 11:52 |
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| RST38h | crash: yea | 11:53 |
| RST38h | That is basically it. Was gonna happen sooner or later. | 11:53 |
| crashanddie | Isn't that more likely proving the failure of our system? | 11:54 |
| nid0 | well its both, there were some loopholes in the vode validation that let him do it and he's used that as justification for it | 11:55 |
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| nid0 | the fact that you can exploit something isnt a good reason to, imo. | 11:55 |
| zChris | thats like saying you can break into a house just becosue you can crash the window :P | 11:55 |
| nid0 | i can go stab someone this afternoon, my fault or societies for letting me? | 11:56 |
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| zChris | nid0: societies ofcourse :) | 12:02 |
| zChris | society^ | 12:02 |
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| jacekowski | hi | 12:04 |
| jacekowski | question | 12:04 |
| jacekowski | i've lost stylus | 12:04 |
| pupnik_ | shut up | 12:04 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: that's not a question | 12:04 |
| jacekowski | does anybody know where and how much does it cost to get a new one? | 12:04 |
| crashanddie | pupnik_: oy! Don't talk to me like that | 12:04 |
| zChris | jacekowski: check the local stores? | 12:05 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: finger works pretty well | 12:05 |
| zChris | jacekowski: www.prisjakt.nu | 12:05 |
| pupnik_ | i hate people who spread text over multiple lines crashanddie | 12:05 |
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| jacekowski | mhm | 12:06 |
| zChris | pupnik_: its impossible not to if you want to say something more than once ;) | 12:06 |
| jacekowski | i might just go to shop | 12:06 |
| jacekowski | they have n900 on display | 12:06 |
| jacekowski | and steal from there | 12:06 |
| zChris | jacekowski: yeah they probably have one stylus for you | 12:06 |
| jacekowski | but it's probably already stolen | 12:06 |
| jacekowski | pupnik_: don't hate me | 12:06 |
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| * satmd reads and wonders | 12:07 | |
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| jacekowski | i'll have to go home at lunch and verify if i don't have it | 12:08 |
| jacekowski | maybe i left it there | 12:08 |
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| satmd | how can I access a javascript context menu on microb? o_O | 12:10 |
| pupnik_ | shut up zChris | 12:11 |
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| oly | any chance we are going to see python-avahi library or is it currently available somewhere already ? | 12:13 |
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| zChris | pupnik_: hihihi ^^ | 12:14 |
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| crashanddie | satmd: use the mouse icon | 12:18 |
| crashanddie | satmd: swipe your finger from outside the lower left hand side of the screen | 12:18 |
| lcuk | mornin crashanddie \o | 12:19 |
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| oly | alternatively do we have any other python libraries available for mdns ? | 12:23 |
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| crashanddie | morning lcuk ! | 12:31 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: how's it going? | 12:31 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, its good :) seeing lots of things come together | 12:36 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: in what aspects? | 12:36 |
| lcuk | i cant tell you that :P | 12:36 |
| lcuk | its my birthday tomorrow \o/ | 12:36 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: I know it is | 12:38 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: you bastard, you shouldn't have said it, now you'll never know if I really knew or not | 12:39 |
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| lcuk | more than me, with events this week i had forgotten | 12:39 |
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| bva | you'll have a new one next year | 12:41 |
| Termana_n810 | unless you get run over in the mean time ^o_o^ *evil laugh* | 12:43 |
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| bva | now I'm starting to immagine all the things that can happen (funniest first) | 12:45 |
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| vesa | anyone tried grooveshark on the n900? i keep getting network errors. | 12:49 |
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| Mece | hey, you know Yakuake, as in the application? | 12:54 |
| ifreq | nope.. but i know the guy called yakuake | 12:54 |
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| ifreq | or was it a chick.. | 12:54 |
| ifreq | :-P | 12:54 |
| vesa | scratch that, it works fine =) | 12:56 |
| vesa | who needs spotify! | 12:56 |
| Sho_ | Mece: I know Yakuake | 12:56 |
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| Mece | I'd really like something like that for maemo5 | 12:58 |
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| Sho_ | Mece: I develop it, actually :-) | 12:59 |
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| villemv | someone needs to make a google buzz client too | 13:01 |
| villemv | when the apis are out | 13:01 |
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| Mece | Sho_ sweet :) | 13:01 |
| unnamed_hero | Free love? | 13:01 |
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| Mece | gah these tunnels are confusing. focusing on my phone too much, so I keep taking wrong turns.. | 13:02 |
| * Mece is walking around under Hel | 13:03 | |
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| Mece | Sho_, is yakuak qt? | 13:07 |
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| crashanddie | Guys, I have bad news | 13:09 |
| crashanddie | The world is coming to and end | 13:09 |
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| Mece | crashanddie, again? | 13:10 |
| crashanddie | I have been called "the voice of reason" | 13:10 |
| Mece | LOL | 13:10 |
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| crashanddie | which can only mean very bad things are about to happen | 13:10 |
| satmd | lol | 13:10 |
| Mece | crashanddie, source plz? | 13:10 |
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| crashanddie | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=536288&postcount=218 | 13:11 |
| Mece | or [citation needed] | 13:11 |
| Sho_ | Mece: Yes, Yakuake is a KDE application | 13:11 |
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| Mece | Sho_, you think its something that could | 13:15 |
| Mece | be ported, or would it be better to start from scratch? | 13:16 |
| Mece | Sho_, I've only seen it demonstrated, so I don't really know that much about it. | 13:17 |
| Sho_ | Mece: In principle it would work fine. Open questions would be how Maemo's window manager would cope with it, or whether the window animation method needs adjustments for that platform. Things like the config dialog would also need some UI adjustments for Maemo, of course. | 13:17 |
| sejo | how do you get python-qt on the scratchbox? It's not in the freemantle | 13:20 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 13:23 | |
| timeless_mbp | nokia marketing for the win | 13:23 |
| *** anunakin has left #maemo | 13:23 | |
| timeless_mbp | they announced a new product in 2010 | 13:23 |
| asj_ | damn a pack of smokes in AU is $15 | 13:23 |
| timeless_mbp | and with it they created a contest that ended in 2008 | 13:23 |
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| red | :D | 13:23 |
| sejo | timeless_mbp: lol | 13:23 |
| timeless_mbp | sejo: challenge. see if you can find that contest | 13:24 |
| Khertan | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/ <--- semms down | 13:24 |
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| satmd | nack. working here. | 13:27 |
| Mece | Sho_, I guess it should be a stripped down version. I imagine it usingone of those (qt version of) gtk.dialog as a container or something. | 13:27 |
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| achipa | timeless_mbp: I know one where you could get the results in december 2009 for the competition you can apply to from february 2010, does that count ? | 13:28 |
| Sho_ | Mece: Possibly | 13:29 |
| timeless_mbp | achipa: possibly | 13:29 |
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| Khertan | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ <-- down too | 13:30 |
| Khertan | satmd: ... | 13:30 |
| Khertan | satmd: not for me | 13:30 |
| Khertan | and at home too | 13:30 |
| achipa | Khertan: works for me, too | 13:30 |
| Khertan | so .... fucking country cache akaima system | 13:30 |
| Khertan | :) | 13:31 |
| achipa | timeless_mbp: ah, they corrected it... *almost* :) http://www.callingallinnovators.com/rules.aspx (ctrl-f for 2009) | 13:31 |
| Khertan | thx for verifying | 13:31 |
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| crashanddie | looks up to me | 13:32 |
| * crashanddie waves @ keras | 13:32 | |
| crashanddie | damn | 13:32 |
| * crashanddie waves @ Khertan | 13:32 | |
| crashanddie | Khertan: fait chier ton pseudo a la con, quelle idee d'aller mettre un H la dedans. Tout ca pour tricher au scrabble :P | 13:33 |
| sejo | timeless_mbp: can't even find the press release *grin* | 13:33 |
| Khertan | héhé | 13:33 |
| crashanddie | Khertan: a ce propos, on a une nana dans le chan... parisienne apparemment | 13:34 |
| Khertan | tu sais comment je l'ai trouvé ? une jetté de main sur clavier ... déplacer quelques lettre ... pour avoir 0 résultat dans google | 13:34 |
| crashanddie | mdr | 13:34 |
| crashanddie | bha je crois que c'est loupe | 13:35 |
| crashanddie | t'en as 44k | 13:35 |
| Khertan | bah maintenant oui | 13:35 |
| Khertan | c'etait il y a 4 ou 5 ans | 13:35 |
| Khertan | bon ... ma femme m'appelle pour manger | 13:35 |
| Khertan | @ tout a l'heure | 13:35 |
| Mece | Sho_, is this yakuake for maemo something you'd be interested in helping out with | 13:36 |
| crashanddie | Khertan: bon app | 13:36 |
| Shrik3 | merde! | 13:36 |
| crashanddie | Khertan: bonne idee aussi, vait aller me trouver un truc a manger, peluche peluche! | 13:36 |
| crashanddie | Shrik3: ? | 13:37 |
| Shrik3 | everything got all french all of a sudden | 13:38 |
| Shrik3 | and I exhausted my whole vocabulary | 13:38 |
| Mece | hahaha | 13:38 |
| timeless_mbp | cute | 13:38 |
| * timeless_mbp broke window manager | 13:38 | |
| jiajia | what language is that | 13:39 |
| jiajia | something new in n900 | 13:39 |
| Mece | timeless_mbp, which one? | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | os x | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | or rather Expose | 13:39 |
| jiajia | anything really raelly advanced feature | 13:39 |
| Mece | timeless_mbp, right, mbp. Nice :) | 13:39 |
| timeless_mbp | it thinks i want to work in expose mode | 13:39 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: press shift and reduce a screen to dock | 13:40 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: or press shift and launch dashboard | 13:40 |
| jiajia | alright that looks cool | 13:40 |
| jiajia | what is the latest version for maemo | 13:40 |
| jiajia | guys | 13:40 |
| timeless_mbp | still broken | 13:41 |
| jiajia | seriously the one i have right now seem not the best | 13:41 |
| Sho_ | Mece: Sure, sadly I can't afford an N900 however so my ability to test it is limited | 13:41 |
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| jiajia | anyone see my talking | 13:43 |
| jiajia | lol | 13:43 |
| crashanddie | no | 13:43 |
| jiajia | i am asking if there is a new version for maemo | 13:43 |
| Mece | Sho_, cool :) we'll talk about it later. I'm at finnish metal expo today, so I don't have time to compile and such today. | 13:43 |
| an0therb0x1 | how do i configure navit for the n900 ? | 13:43 |
| crashanddie | jiajia: and we don't have to respond ;) You could just search | 13:44 |
| achipa | jiajia: 3.2010.02-8 | 13:44 |
| crashanddie | jiajia: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44650 | 13:44 |
| jiajia | cause the one i have is alwayas like crash | 13:44 |
| jiajia | shut down automatically | 13:44 |
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| Sho_ | Mece: You'll have to get ahold of some of the dependencies first anyhow (namely kdelibs and the konsole kpart) | 13:45 |
| Mece | Sho_, heh yeah, I didn't think porting it was something that would get done while I'm here at mcdonalds :) | 13:47 |
| Mece | I'm off. toodles. | 13:47 |
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| Sho_ | Mece: oh I've written fine code and McD before ;) | 13:48 |
| Sho_ | *at | 13:48 |
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| hrw | morning | 14:04 |
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| lcuk | mornin hrw | 14:05 |
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| hrw | nokia decided - calendar app will remain closed for maemo5 and meego | 14:14 |
| hrw | crap | 14:14 |
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| zaheerm | hrw, same calendar backend to be used in meego? | 14:16 |
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| hrw | zaheerm: no idea | 14:17 |
| hrw | zaheerm: meego so far is black hole when it comes to software | 14:17 |
| bva | so meeGo != completly open | 14:19 |
| bva | ? | 14:19 |
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| Pavlov | time to create the open fork, and not very good car sounding, youGo | 14:19 |
| hrw | bva: this is nokia - you thought that there will be no closed apps? | 14:19 |
| bva | hrw: maybe I was thinking wishfully | 14:20 |
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| bva | I mean; whats the advantage of keeping it closed? | 14:21 |
| bva | Than I might as well buy Android | 14:21 |
| vesa | the platform is open, not all the applications are open? | 14:22 |
| Corsac | hrw: http://repo.meego.com/trunk/repo/source/ | 14:22 |
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| Corsac | hrw: that's a start :) | 14:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | bva, Android is more locked down as a platform. | 14:22 |
| X-Fade | Yes. Google apps aren't open on android either. | 14:22 |
| oly | i have to say i really like the current interface so hope they dont change to much | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | The base will be open, but what that base consists of is unknown atm. | 14:23 |
| hrw | Corsac: thats moblin source dump | 14:23 |
| bva | X-Fade: In my opinion calendar = base | 14:23 |
| Corsac | hrw: yes | 14:24 |
| glass | bva: remember to buy a google certified android device to access appstore | 14:24 |
| hrw | X-Fade: console-image probably + base x11 | 14:24 |
| Corsac | hrw: which will be Meego base system | 14:24 |
| X-Fade | hrw: And qt ;) | 14:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | bva, not a generally widely accepted definition. | 14:25 |
| hrw | Corsac: sure, but this does not have any maemo components yet | 14:25 |
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| Corsac | hrw: no but we can assume the “meego-common” parts will be opened (I do). But that does not mean the “vendor parts” will be as opened | 14:26 |
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| hrw | I think that we need to wait 2-3 months to check how it will go. for now it is unclear what will be done and how. | 14:27 |
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| hrw | as for now one thing was done: nokia + intel discussed/announced/presented one server with website/mailinglist. nothing more | 14:28 |
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| * w00t_ cries over the mailing list going around in yet another circle | 14:32 | |
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| hrw | so I am waiting for code, test images (for beagleboard or n900 or qemu), howtos etc | 14:33 |
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| Stskeeps | The Mer project - just a bunch of redshirts?, http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mer-project-just-bunch-of-redshirts.html | 14:37 |
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| Corsac | nice shirts :) | 14:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, s/get away with/get away from/ | 14:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, "get away with" means the opposite of what you intend. ;) | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | 2edited | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also: s/done with separating/done by separating/ | 14:41 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: nice post | 14:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, hell, just re-read the damn thing. :D | 14:41 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, these shirts - tracy keeps telling me they are like stag-do shirts | 14:43 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: hehe | 14:46 |
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| Shrik3 | so the Mer project people will start porting Meego for 770 & N8x0? | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | N900 if not happening officially, N8x0 if it is feasible. | 14:52 |
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| Shrik3 | ok | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | 770 you have to be demented to start with | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:52 |
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| hrw | 770 is device which should not be released | 14:53 |
| X-Fade | I disagree. It worked nicely for me at the time. | 14:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | hrw, oh, hush. | 14:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, very much agreed. | 14:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | I carried it with me everywhere until I got my N800. | 14:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not a perfect device, no, but it worked great at the time. | 14:54 |
| glass | 770 had brilliant browsing for it's time | 14:55 |
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| glass | and worked out of the box with bluetooth nokia phones to get online with no fuss. much less fuss than with a zaurus and bt-sd card anyways | 14:55 |
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| * Arif yawns | 14:56 | |
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| Myrtti | worked better to get online than linux in general at the time of the release of it | 14:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too bad ICD doesn't have the lead it used to. | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | ICD is still superior in some areas | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:57 |
| Myrtti | network-manager was in Ubuntu with 6.06 | 14:57 |
| Arif | people actually bought 770s? :P | 14:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arif, 50,000 of them. | 14:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it was a damn fine piece of equipment at the time. | 14:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I wonder if Nokia will end up switching to conman. | 14:59 |
| Myrtti | I got mine for free from my old workplace when I left late 2007, I had used it for about a year before that | 14:59 |
| * GeneralAntilles pre-ordered. | 14:59 | |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: in meego, probably | 14:59 |
| hrw | Arif: I got mine from Nokia when n800 was released. 3 months later it was EOLed | 14:59 |
| Arif | haha | 15:00 |
| Arif | I was actually interested in the tablets | 15:00 |
| Arif | but they had no GSM | 15:00 |
| Arif | and it was too expensive for a toy :P | 15:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arif, wasn't a toy. | 15:01 |
| * aquatix still loves his n810 | 15:02 | |
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| Myrtti | I use my N800 daily | 15:02 |
| Myrtti | wonderful for surfing in bed and bath | 15:02 |
| aquatix | bath hm? | 15:02 |
| pillar_ | and beyond :) | 15:03 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 15:03 |
| aquatix | i actually quite like the new mobile firefox btw | 15:03 |
| Arif | you take your tablet to your bath? | 15:03 |
| aquatix | as Tear kinda died | 15:03 |
| rzr | Arif: the question would be , when does he leave his tablet ? | 15:03 |
| Arif | Nokia added a new app to Ovi store \o/ | 15:04 |
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| range | It's the small things ... | 15:04 |
| pillar_ | Arif: which one? | 15:04 |
| rzr | Myrtti: ever tried surfing under the shower ? :) | 15:04 |
| Arif | Firefox | 15:04 |
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| aquatix | rzr: i think Myrtti takes her tablet everywhere :) | 15:04 |
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| Myrtti | rzr: no | 15:04 |
| Myrtti | aquatix: pretty much | 15:05 |
| pillar_ | Arif: oh ok, I noticed this panorama photo app as well | 15:05 |
| Khertan | How it s possible that someone got this error : | 15:05 |
| Khertan | The package fails to install with error: 'Unable to create /opt/vectormine/data/block.ttf': No such file or directory | 15:05 |
| aquatix | i used to, too | 15:05 |
| sejo | what repo's should I enable in my sdk? | 15:05 |
| Arif | that one was there for a while | 15:05 |
| sejo | maemo5 | 15:05 |
| Arif | I installed it but haven't tried it out yet | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Arif: I must say that windows 7 was unexpected. | 15:05 |
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| Khertan | with http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/v/vectormine/vectormine_1.0.2-6_armel.deb | 15:05 |
| Arif | SpeedEvil, o.o? | 15:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why in the world is Fennec on the Ovi Store? | 15:05 |
| Khertan | GeneralAntilles: because Ovi Sucks | 15:06 |
| Arif | so more than 4 people will use it? | 15:06 |
| aquatix | Khertan: maybe the dir isn't created yet? | 15:06 |
| Khertan | aquatix it should be created | 15:06 |
| Myrtti | GeneralAntilles: for the lulz? | 15:06 |
| Khertan | by apt | 15:06 |
| aquatix | odd | 15:06 |
| Khertan | or dpkg | 15:06 |
| Khertan | strange | 15:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arif, Extras ships enabled out of the box. :) | 15:06 |
| Arif | Firefox is in extras? | 15:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Myrtti, I guess, but I'm missing the joke, I think. | 15:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wait, used to be. | 15:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | But their build system is still fail. | 15:06 |
| Arif | furryfox has its own repo I thought | 15:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | It does, sadly. | 15:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Weird that they'd rather go Ovi than Extras. | 15:07 |
| Arif | Ovi looked so empty :P | 15:07 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Their packaging is broken beyond repair. | 15:07 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: And they didn't want to invest any time in fixing it, so they dropped their binary crap over at Ovi. | 15:08 |
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| achipa | so it IS the 'if I can't pass in Extras I go to Ovi' :D | 15:08 |
| Arif | I installed Candle today | 15:09 |
| Corsac | is the bugtracker field required for promoting to testing? | 15:09 |
| Arif | and didn't get what I was supposed to do with it ;( | 15:09 |
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| X-Fade | Corsac: yes. | 15:09 |
| achipa | Corsac: yes | 15:09 |
| Corsac | ok, thanks | 15:09 |
| X-Fade | Corsac: Although it can be: mailto: too. | 15:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, love it. | 15:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, another demonstration of Ovi's awesome QA. | 15:10 |
| * GeneralAntilles can't wait until applications start getting submitted in earnest. | 15:10 | |
| Arif | Ovi has QA? | 15:10 |
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| achipa | Arif: no(t yet) | 15:10 |
| X-Fade | 30 pages of PDF it seems. | 15:10 |
| Arif | I downloaded those videos and they didn't play :P | 15:10 |
| hrw | nokia has qa? | 15:10 |
| Arif | they played on the PC though xD | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arif, the €50 fee? | 15:11 |
| achipa | X-Fade: seems 'voluntary', as in there are packages that are in Ovi but clearly fail their own guidelines -> not enforced | 15:11 |
| Arif | lets gather €50 and submit a fart app | 15:12 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Commercial parties can have different deals it seems :) | 15:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Hey, man, can't get past those lameoids over at maemo.org? We can help you out for a price. . . ." | 15:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm in favor of burning down Nokia's Ovi division. | 15:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | They seem to be really good at dragging the rest of the company down. | 15:12 |
| lcuk | why doesnt maemo.org adopt the same policy ;) | 15:12 |
| lcuk | would give X-Fade some extra pennies :D | 15:13 |
| GAN900 | Which is saying something. . . . | 15:13 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, who says we haven't? :P | 15:13 |
| Arif | ask Apple to open a Maemo category :p | 15:13 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: You just aren't sharing in the money ;) | 15:13 |
| lcuk | damn! | 15:13 |
| achipa | X-Fade: I'm not sure if it's commercial... AFAIK Ovi store still does not allow the submission of ANY Maemo content. So whoever is in there went through other channels (as in talk/deal with honchos) | 15:14 |
| Khertan | Hello ... | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Hehe, big companies are different from little developers. | 15:14 |
| GAN900 | Anybody poked at the PR1.1.1 apt yet? | 15:14 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: Can i ask you to remove a package (in fact several) from extras-testing ? | 15:14 |
| glass | little developers can acts as a big company though | 15:15 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: all vectormine pacakge | 15:15 |
| * achipa nods | 15:15 | |
| X-Fade | Khertan: Just vote them down. | 15:15 |
| sejo | is there a maemo channel for python? | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: When maintainer votes down it will be removed. | 15:15 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: yeah ... ok | 15:15 |
| Arif | hmm | 15:15 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: didn't know | 15:15 |
| lizardo | sejo: #pymaemo | 15:15 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: great thing ... thx | 15:15 |
| Arif | the "Flashlight" app broke in 2010 02 08 :( | 15:16 |
| lizardo | sejo: or #pyside for PySide stuff | 15:16 |
| lizardo | sejo: but discussing python here is fine too :) | 15:16 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: I figured that if the maintainer doesn't believe in the package version, it should be removed ;) | 15:16 |
| achipa | Arif: works for me | 15:16 |
| Arif | what version are you using? | 15:16 |
| achipa | Arif: 0.3-2 | 15:17 |
| Corsac | Do you want to continue [Y/n]? ^M | 15:17 |
| * Corsac *hates* scratchbox | 15:17 | |
| Arif | hmm | 15:17 |
| Arif | weird | 15:17 |
| Arif | the flashlight button doesn't appear anymore when I open the camera slider | 15:17 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: great idea | 15:17 |
| slonopotamus | so. history with broken usb connector continues. 1. nokia care says it doesn't have info to tell whether it is a warranty case. 2. repair service said it is unlikely to be waranty case, though agreed to take it and gave estimation of 1 week (when it either says it's non-warranty or fixes it) | 15:17 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: keep in mind the information may not have spread yet | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Arif: did you reboot? | 15:19 |
| Arif | I tried removing, the rebooting, and then reinstalling it | 15:19 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, repair service explicitely told me they don't have bulletin on this problem (and yep, they searched in their db) | 15:19 |
| Arif | then* | 15:19 |
| RichiH | can the n900 save raw GPS data with photos for later location processing? | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: no | 15:19 |
| RichiH | bleh | 15:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | RichiH: at least not in the sense of 'geotate' | 15:20 |
| nidO | slonopotamus, you calling them or going into a store? | 15:20 |
| RichiH | is anyone working on it? :) | 15:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | RichiH: it's impossible. | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: contribute to the thread then | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: the required hardware is not there. | 15:20 |
| RichiH | SpeedEvil: my main concern is that i do not want wait for a fix when shooting a pic | 15:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | RichiH: having said that - if you have had a gps fix in the past little while - it's instant. | 15:20 |
| slonopotamus | nidO, called nokia care by phone, gone to repair service by foot :) | 15:20 |
| RichiH | SpeedEvil: it has a camera and a gps receiver -- what would be missing? | 15:20 |
| nidO | tbh, go back to the repair service and take a printout of nokia's own announcement saying it's a warranty issue, and tell them to get the info they need directly while you wait | 15:21 |
| RichiH | unless the gps unit is so walled-off that you can not get at the raw data | 15:21 |
| w00t_ | slonopotamus: go postal | 15:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | RichiH: the 'postprocess later' functionality in hardware requires the ability to record the raw incoming waveform. | 15:21 |
| w00t_ | always helps | 15:21 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: Almost no GPSs do this. | 15:21 |
| slonopotamus | nidO, i didn't see it in russian :/ | 15:21 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: and it's also patented. | 15:21 |
| nidO | any of em speak english at the repair point? | 15:22 |
| slonopotamus | nidO, w/e, they took my n900 annd said they'll be contactinng nokia to decide what to do. | 15:22 |
| slonopotamus | nidO, unlikely. | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: also - you can take picture - and then it will acquire the geotags | 15:23 |
| GAN900 | Nokia Care . . . doesn't | 15:23 |
| slonopotamus | GAN900, yeah, i thought smth like that :) | 15:24 |
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| RichiH | SpeedEvil: nothing of which is as good as just saving the raw dump :p | 15:27 |
| RichiH | but thanks nonetheless :) | 15:27 |
| slonopotamus | anyone has a link to nokia announce on usb problem? can't google it | 15:27 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: find it on the thread | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | there's a link to the forums | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: in some ways, yes. It might in principle be possible with the hardware - but there are no docs - and the bit that talks to the GPS is in the modem. So... | 15:28 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, meh, there are 63 pages. | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: in the end of it | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:28 |
| wolf^ | GeneralAntilles, "Hey, man, can't get past those lameoids over at maemo.org? We can help you out for a price. . . ." | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: as a datapoint - I last used the GPS yesterday. I just took a pic - with network positioning enabled - indoors - and got a satellite position in under 30s. | 15:29 |
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| wolf^ | GeneralAntilles, I guess it's better to pay for the ability to expose your application than to wait for "open" "community" response | 15:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | wolf^, um? | 15:29 |
| wolf^ | GeneralAntilles, I'm waiting for 2 months for extras upload access and frankly, I don't give a damn anymore | 15:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | wolf^, are you an SIO2 apologist? | 15:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wolf^, er? | 15:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | and you haven't contacted anybody to follow up? | 15:29 |
| wolf^ | I have | 15:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade's the person to talk to | 15:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | have you talked to X-Fade? | 15:30 |
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| nidO | slonopotamus - post 12 - http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-Devices/Nokia-responds-to-reports-about-the-N900-micro-usb-port-getting/td-p/629019 | 15:30 |
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| wolf^ | GeneralAntilles, I have sent mails | 15:30 |
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| wolf^ | GeneralAntilles, if I have to poke anybody on IRC, well, it only proves my point | 15:31 |
| slonopotamus | nidO, thanks | 15:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | wolf^, I realize it's frustrating, but most requests are processed within 48 hours on weekdays. | 15:31 |
| gilo | hi folks | 15:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Usually less | 15:31 |
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| wolf^ | GeneralAntilles, I've sent the first mail in december | 15:32 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: A mail to -developers will do. | 15:32 |
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| RichiH | SpeedEvil: i despise a-gps and do not want to rely on network-assisted gps | 15:33 |
| slonopotamus | nidO, lol. under certain conditions. | 15:33 |
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| nidO | well yeah, theyre obviously going to quantify it, that first post was only the initial comment though, its post 12 that confirms detatched usb ports are warranty issues | 15:34 |
| nidO | presumably unless there're obvious signs of significant abuse | 15:34 |
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| woglinde | wow | 15:34 |
| woglinde | installing ubuntu on an viliv ex70 | 15:34 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: it takes - without network positioning enabled - only a few seconds to lock - if you've used it in the last few hours. | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: also - tehre are various sorts of network assist. | 15:35 |
| RichiH | or, to be more exact, i really like the initial a-gps -- towers set up across europe that improve accuracy | 15:35 |
| slonopotamus | nidO, also, 'very limited number'. they fixed in in newer devices? | 15:35 |
| RichiH | but the 'modern' a-gps fails as soon as you leave your home country | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | there is the phone-network-assist - and then there is asking supl.nokia.com for help | 15:35 |
| nidO | no idea, but going by t.m.o there arent really a whole lot of people reporting it | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: agps is a term that covers _LOTS_ of shit | 15:36 |
| RichiH | SpeedEvil: my use case is to not use gps for a few weeks and then snap the photo | 15:36 |
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| RichiH | SpeedEvil: i know | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: right - that's not gonna work. | 15:36 |
| RichiH | most of which is, literally, shit :p | 15:36 |
| RichiH | SpeedEvil: my point exactly | 15:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | RichiH: if you get a GPS signal when charging - that would be a trivial fix | 15:36 |
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| RichiH | SpeedEvil: oh, can the n900 switch on gps while charging automagically? | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | oh for fuck's sake someone TELL BENNY1967 TO FUCKING PISS THE HELL OFF | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | sorry | 15:40 |
| RichiH | 14:40:22 [freenode] -!- There is no such nick BENNY1967 | 15:40 |
| slonopotamus | nidO, oh, yep, just 11% in that post | 15:40 |
| RichiH | also, temper ;) | 15:40 |
| crashanddie | RichiH: nha, on tmo | 15:40 |
| nidO | slonopotamus - 11%? | 15:40 |
| pillar_ | is talk real slow for all? aren't these servers suppose to be fast now? | 15:40 |
| SpeedEvil | RichiH: not by default | 15:40 |
| RichiH | that would be talk.maemo.org? | 15:40 |
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| RichiH | SpeedEvil: if there is a way that does not impact stability and battery life, i am fine with that | 15:41 |
| slonopotamus | nidO, 11.97% :P poll in t.m.o. post | 15:41 |
| X-Fade | wolf^: But tell me. What is the problem you are experiencing? | 15:41 |
| pillar_ | RichiH: yep | 15:41 |
| nidO | slonopotamus - which means the actual % is way lower most likely, as the vast majority of people without problems will never see/read/vote in that post | 15:41 |
| nidO | whereas probably 100% of people who do have a problem and use tmo ever will be voting | 15:41 |
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| nidO | hm, anyone have any experience of generating evopedia wiki dumps? | 15:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | RichiH: as a 0th cut - start osm2go when when battery is charging. I can't see a script easily hackable | 15:45 |
| cehteh | ho | 15:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I always get the feeling that people who "hate" mailing lists are doing it wrong. | 15:48 |
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| * cehteh hates web-forums | 15:49 | |
| Corsac | hhmh, no linux-libc-dev in sdk? | 15:49 |
| * SpeedEvil hates some web forums for content - and others for style. And all of them for having only one client and no backup. | 15:49 | |
| cehteh | should be installed by default .. | 15:50 |
| cehteh | having only one not perfectly working client | 15:50 |
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| Arif | hmm | 15:51 |
| Arif | how do you zoom in and out in VNC viewer :o | 15:51 |
| Arif | and right click :blush: | 15:52 |
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| lcuk | Arif, only vnc into a mac ;) | 15:52 |
| cehteh | haha | 15:52 |
| Arif | Macs don't need zooming ? :P | 15:52 |
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| cehteh | vnc cant zoom iirc .. tightvnc can be started with some fixed scaling factor thats all | 15:53 |
| lcuk | Arif, then put an enhancement request in for swirly zoom :D aSIMULAtor might know who to request | 15:53 |
| gilo | what abount rsap? | 15:53 |
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| cehteh | while, with a compositing window manager zooming should be (relative easy) possible .. but well | 15:54 |
| slonopotamus | so. did anyone get usb connector fixed? | 15:55 |
| slonopotamus | (yep, i'm reading through 63 pages of relevant post) | 15:55 |
| Arif | hmm | 15:55 |
| Arif | so no right click? :p | 15:55 |
| Arif | it's kinda hard clicking the tray icons even with the stylus ={ | 15:55 |
| X-Fade | Arif: tap and hold? | 15:56 |
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| * Arif will try | 15:57 | |
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| * crashanddie cries http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=536562&postcount=94 | 15:58 | |
| frals | loving the badoo mail to maemo-dev ml | 15:58 |
| lcuk | why does tmo show single posts centred | 15:59 |
| lcuk | it looks like badly written poetry | 15:59 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: to make you ask that question | 15:59 |
| w00t_ | :) | 15:59 |
| * Arif blinks | 15:59 | |
| Arif | you can use Meego on desktops now? | 15:59 |
| Arif | :D | 15:59 |
| crashanddie | Arif: he's talking about moblin | 16:00 |
| Arif | ah ok | 16:00 |
| Arif | I hadn't heard of moblin untill it was merged with maemo :$ | 16:01 |
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| Khertan | ds;jfsldfj sldkf sùd fksdf! s dS sdF lkdsjf !! ! FUCK ! i ve scratched /usr/bin on my n900 | 16:02 |
| Khertan | stupid packaging tool ! | 16:02 |
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| Arif | lol, what? | 16:02 |
| thresh | now now | 16:02 |
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| crashanddie | RichiH: here, parse this: "Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to go want to do look more like?" | 16:02 |
| Arif | stop touching stuff you're not supposed to! | 16:02 |
| Khertan | Arif: gniagniagnia ... there is a bug in pypackage | 16:03 |
| Khertan | pypackager | 16:03 |
| Khertan | as the maintainer ... maybe i should fix it :) | 16:03 |
| Khertan | and also try before :) | 16:03 |
| Arif | pff companies don't fix their bugs | 16:03 |
| Arif | so why should you! | 16:03 |
| Khertan | i blame pypackager ... and his stupid developpers ! | 16:04 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:04 |
| pillar_ | Arif: ctrl-tap? | 16:04 |
| danielwilms | for everybody in and around helsinki: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mobile_Dev_Camp_2010 | 16:04 |
| Khertan | Arif: ah yes ... now that i ve my own companiy i can now stop fixing bugs | 16:04 |
| Khertan | Arif: good advice ! | 16:04 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:04 |
| RichiH | crashanddie: parse error, please check your syntax :) -- next! | 16:04 |
| Arif | Khertan, blame it on the user :D | 16:05 |
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| Arif | pillar_, the ctrl on the keyboard or the buttons at the bottom? | 16:05 |
| Khertan | the user is me for the moment | 16:05 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:05 |
| * slonopotamus wonders what is average n900 usb connector lifetime | 16:05 | |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, mine have never broken | 16:05 |
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| lcuk | and im shoving it in and out all the time | 16:06 |
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| crashanddie | slonopotamus: same here | 16:06 |
| Arif | I keep poking in the usb cable when I hear a song I want on my phone | 16:06 |
| Khertan | slonopotamus: same here ... no care | 16:06 |
| Arif | I'm afraid the battery'll die before the USB port :P | 16:06 |
| Khertan | lol | 16:06 |
| lcuk | the only concern ive ever had with a nokia device was that my n810 touchscreen started to fade after extensive over abuse | 16:07 |
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| RST38h | <YAWN> | 16:07 |
| hrw | re | 16:07 |
| w00t_ | I've always been careful with my precious | 16:07 |
| Khertan | did you use screen protector on your n900 ? | 16:07 |
| lcuk | hey RST38h | 16:07 |
| Arif | I miss my N91's headphone quality :P | 16:07 |
| RST38h | heya lcuk, hrw, khertan | 16:07 |
| w00t_ | I polish it every day, and it has a case and a screen protector <3 | 16:07 |
| lcuk | Khertan, not got one on any of my devices | 16:07 |
| * thresh waves | 16:07 | |
| thresh | 52 minutes to go.. eh. | 16:08 |
| Khertan | i'm careful with the ddp one ... not the loaned one :) | 16:08 |
| lcuk | RST38h, did you see the post about xchat plugin thing from cehteh | 16:08 |
| RST38h | yea | 16:08 |
| Arif | Khertan, my N900 dangles around my neck when I'm outside :P | 16:08 |
| w00t_ | Khertan: <-- full retail price :P | 16:08 |
| RST38h | wil integrate on the next release | 16:08 |
| RST38h | Arif: isn't it a bit heavy for that? | 16:08 |
| Arif | with no screen protector :D | 16:08 |
| Arif | no | 16:09 |
| Khertan | no case, no screen protector, directly in the jean's pocket | 16:09 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:09 |
| lcuk | do you store other stuff in that pocket tho | 16:09 |
| RST38h | thresh: and then... ? | 16:09 |
| Khertan | (but i didn't do that with the ddp n900) | 16:09 |
| lcuk | or is it your n900 pocket | 16:09 |
| thresh | RST38h: FRIIIIIIIDAAAAAAY NIIIIIIIIGHTTTTTTTT | 16:09 |
| Khertan | lcuk: nope only the n900 ... :) | 16:09 |
| RST38h | ahhh | 16:09 |
| lcuk | RST38h, great! | 16:09 |
| Arif | I found out I can change the songs in media player with left/right arrow | 16:09 |
| Khertan | i m not fool enought to put also my keys : | 16:09 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:09 |
| Arif | so I don't have to poke at the screen randomly to change music :D | 16:09 |
| lcuk | Khertan, then you have a special case | 16:09 |
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| lcuk | it just happens to double as clothing | 16:10 |
| Khertan | héhé | 16:10 |
| RST38h | thresh: snowstorm - CHECK; traffic jam - CHECK; ... | 16:10 |
| oly | I have just got my n900 recently been considering enabling the developers repo any thoughts ? | 16:10 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders what the market would be for a snug-right-angle USB connector | 16:10 | |
| oly | my main concern is screwing up my phone | 16:10 |
| lcuk | oly, if you are a developer yeah | 16:10 |
| thresh | RST38h: i'm outside of Moscow anyway | 16:10 |
| crashanddie | oly: define "developers repo" | 16:10 |
| RST38h | oly: How valiant! | 16:10 |
| crashanddie | oly: if you're talking about Maemo-devel, no, don't | 16:10 |
| oly | is it easy to reinstall a phone ? | 16:10 |
| thresh | RST38h: and will probably move in Moscow center, not suburbs | 16:10 |
| crashanddie | oly: maemo testing, maybe, if you feel like giving feedback to developers | 16:11 |
| RST38h | thresh: traffic jam then | 16:11 |
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| oly | yeah i have testing | 16:11 |
| lcuk | oly, yeah, you can reflash anytime, take regular backups of your settings and stuff | 16:11 |
| lcuk | and you can be back where you were in no time :P | 16:11 |
| oly | i have been using linux for years on desktops and servers | 16:11 |
| thresh | RST38h: yaprobki say it's pretty much OK to move from Korolev | 16:11 |
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| Khertan | ok i ve dput vectormine_1.0.3-1 to the extras-devel repository ... someone can try to install it in ten minutes ... | 16:11 |
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| Khertan | to say me if it s works ? | 16:11 |
| lcuk | then as with any new apps you install watch for how they sit with your current running system | 16:11 |
| oly | i know i can restore a desktop but no idea where to start if the phone goes wrong | 16:11 |
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| Khertan | as it s works on my two device | 16:12 |
| Arif | Khertan, what is it ;o | 16:12 |
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| oly | I love playing with cutting edge and am considering porting a daap server | 16:12 |
| Khertan | Arif: http://khertan.net/softwares_en.html | 16:13 |
| Arif | oo | 16:13 |
| Arif | games! | 16:13 |
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| * Arif installs | 16:13 | |
| Khertan | Arif: http://khertan.net/softwares_en.html | 16:13 |
| oly | if i can reflash it should be fine, i just want to know i cant brick / lock myself out of the phone completely | 16:13 |
| Khertan | arg wrong second link | 16:13 |
| oly | as at the end of the day i do need a working phone | 16:14 |
| matthew- | ok i deleted a number and messages from this number by mistake | 16:14 |
| Khertan | Arif : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VYHi5pxjas | 16:14 |
| Corsac | Khertan: are extras-devel buildds working? | 16:14 |
| matthew- | any chance i can 'find' it somewhere? | 16:14 |
| Arif | 1 euro eh | 16:14 |
| Arif | ;p | 16:14 |
| Khertan | Arif: wait a bit ... it s ll be available in extras devel in ten minutes | 16:14 |
| Khertan | Arif: yep :) | 16:14 |
| matthew- | anywhere?:D | 16:14 |
| Khertan | if i gain enough i ll make other game | 16:14 |
| matthew- | there should be some traces of it! :D | 16:14 |
| Arif | I have no paypal | 16:14 |
| Khertan | else ... come back to my geek stuff | 16:14 |
| Arif | -.- | 16:14 |
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| matthew- | no? | 16:15 |
| matthew- | ;] | 16:15 |
| lcuk | matthew-, you find them then - its not something ive seen people ask for before | 16:15 |
| Khertan | Arif: paypal isn't mandatory ... it s also work with bluecard :) | 16:15 |
| lcuk | if oyu do find a way, document it | 16:15 |
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| Arif | I only have a bank card ;P | 16:15 |
| matthew- | lcuk: well if i would be able to do it, i wouldn't ask now, would I ? | 16:15 |
| Khertan | Arif: as ovistore isn't open yet ... this is the only method i ve | 16:15 |
| lcuk | hence "if you do find a way" | 16:16 |
| Khertan | Arif: works with bank card too | 16:16 |
| Khertan | but try it before | 16:16 |
| lcuk | -tyops ofc | 16:16 |
| Arif | cool | 16:16 |
| VDVsx | aahha, the firefox animation/video is very cool -> http://maemo.nokia.com/firefox/ | 16:16 |
| Arif | then I'll buy it | 16:16 |
| lcuk | -typos ofc | 16:16 |
| Arif | when it comes out | 16:16 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:16 |
| Khertan | currently still in testing | 16:16 |
| Khertan | the games is working | 16:16 |
| Khertan | the packaging not :) | 16:16 |
| Arif | lol | 16:16 |
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| Khertan | the pacakaging tool less :) | 16:16 |
| Arif | I was going to buy the sio2interactive games | 16:16 |
| Arif | but they were so boring :P | 16:16 |
| Khertan | there is so many bug in pypackage | 16:17 |
| Khertan | there is so many bug in pypackager | 16:17 |
| Khertan | Arif: really ? | 16:17 |
| Arif | yea | 16:17 |
| Arif | :( | 16:17 |
| Khertan | i'm not someone that believe beautifull graphism is required to made a good game | 16:17 |
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| pillar_ | danielwilms: any idea how long the event will last? | 16:17 |
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| N900evil | nethack++ | 16:17 |
| Khertan | N900evil: for example ! | 16:18 |
| * Arif doesn't care about graphics either | 16:18 | |
| Arif | I'd like monkey ball ported though :P | 16:18 |
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| oly | may be possible to port neverball | 16:18 |
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| danielwilms | pillar_: just the saturday, until the late evening | 16:19 |
| oly | which is very similar to monkey ball | 16:19 |
| pillar_ | danielwilms: ok, how late though, thinking if it fits to my schedule | 16:19 |
| * Khertan is thinking of making some Vectrex game port :) | 16:19 | |
| VDVsx | danielwilms, ahh, shame, I really enjoy these kind of contests :D | 16:20 |
| danielwilms | pillar_ plan until around 6 or 7 in the evening | 16:21 |
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| danielwilms | VDVsx looking forward to seeing the results :) | 16:21 |
| lcuk | danielwilms, if the competition is is 48hours but the event is 1 day | 16:21 |
| lcuk | how do you contro lit | 16:21 |
| pillar_ | danielwilms: ok | 16:21 |
| pillar_ | yeah when is the coding supposed to achieved | 16:22 |
| lcuk | time dilation | 16:22 |
| danielwilms | lcuk you don't know what to code until Thursday | 16:22 |
| lcuk | o_O cool | 16:22 |
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| danielwilms | at 17:00 | 16:22 |
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| lcuk | does it have to be qt? :D | 16:23 |
| VDVsx | danielwilms, will you give some talk about maemo there ? | 16:23 |
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| danielwilms | lcuk yep | 16:23 |
| * lcuk reads more lol | 16:23 | |
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| Stskeeps | what's event now? :P | 16:23 |
| lcuk | ahh danielwilms something else just remembered | 16:23 |
| VDVsx | Stskeeps, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mobile_Dev_Camp_2010 | 16:24 |
| danielwilms | VDVsx we will be there and demo things according to questions...is more Q&A thing | 16:24 |
| Khertan | youhou ... PyPackager 3.0.9-1 uploadted to autobuilder | 16:24 |
| Khertan | fix many bugs | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: ah | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | VDVsx: no way i'm going to helsinki when there's still snow ;) | 16:24 |
| pillar_ | danielwilms: workshops only showing iphone and android - are there maemo related stuff other than the competition? | 16:24 |
| pillar_ | Stskeeps: then you will have to wait for a while :) there's plenty right now | 16:25 |
| Arif | http://store.ovi.com/content/26745?clickSource=homepage | 16:25 |
| danielwilms | pillar_ I've sent it an hour ago to the guy...the discription will be there soon | 16:25 |
| Arif | lolwhat | 16:25 |
| pillar_ | danielwilms: okay, cool | 16:25 |
| pillar_ | danielwilms: now it's showing nokia | 16:26 |
| Arif | Nokia killed the English language! | 16:26 |
| danielwilms | hehe...as we speak :D | 16:26 |
| VDVsx | danielwilms, humm, ok, if is more student targeted could be good to advertise maemo@GSoC there, dunno but probably the GSoC stipend is very low for finns students :D | 16:26 |
| Myrtti | no, I think it was Nokia and the Finnish national telecom company at the moment of inventing sms | 16:26 |
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| VDVsx | Stskeeps, yeah, you don't have snow in .pl :D | 16:26 |
| Khertan | lol a competition for things running on n900 | 16:26 |
| Khertan | which talk only of QT | 16:26 |
| Khertan | ... hum | 16:26 |
| Khertan | what to say ... | 16:27 |
| lcuk | danielwilms, so this is opened for people near helsinki, or can they be flown in | 16:27 |
| danielwilms | VDVsx good idea | 16:27 |
| Arif | maybe someone will port an N64 emulator :P | 16:27 |
| pekuja | arh, why does OMWeather think I'm in Oulu? | 16:27 |
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| danielwilms | lcuk haha...whoever is present at the event :) | 16:27 |
| lcuk | yeah but how would enthusiastic people from uk etc get there :P | 16:28 |
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| danielwilms | lcuk this the enthusiastic people from the UK have to figure out :) | 16:29 |
| * Khertan didn't understand how developpers can found QT Better | 16:29 | |
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| Arif | Qt=more platforms=more money | 16:30 |
| Arif | think of Java ;P | 16:30 |
| ham5 | boooo qt | 16:30 |
| Khertan | Qt=more platforms <--- false | 16:30 |
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| Khertan | ok true now with symbian (but it s not a plateform for me) | 16:31 |
| lcuk | lol danielwilms thats more of a puzzle | 16:31 |
| Arif | symbian+maemo? | 16:31 |
| danielwilms | Khertan what is your choice then? | 16:31 |
| Khertan | danielwilms: currently pygtk | 16:31 |
| sp3000 | pekuja: well it is kind of in the middle isn't it? don't be so capital-area-centric :P | 16:31 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:31 |
| Khertan | and i didn't see any interest on qt ... | 16:31 |
| Arif | you could sell your app to so many million symbian users! | 16:32 |
| Khertan | except the move from gtk to qt of maemo/meego plateform | 16:32 |
| danielwilms | Khertan hehe...I love python...but since I've started with qt...what to say...never been faster and easier to implement things | 16:32 |
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| Khertan | really ... ? | 16:32 |
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| Khertan | i found s it s slower to do anythings usefull with qt | 16:32 |
| Khertan | but i surely lack from qt knowledge | 16:33 |
| oly | are they going to keep gtk support ? | 16:33 |
| Khertan | they say community supported ... | 16:33 |
| Khertan | so clearly no :) | 16:33 |
| Khertan | say / said | 16:33 |
| Arif | they should do it the google way | 16:34 |
| zaheerm | except moblin ui uses gtk/clutter | 16:34 |
| Arif | make everything java! :P | 16:34 |
| Khertan | Arif: oh my god no | 16:34 |
| pekuja | sp3000: I'm mostly where-i-actually-live-centric | 16:34 |
| oly | i dont quite get that though clutter seems really powerful | 16:34 |
| Khertan | and google android things ... is not java | 16:34 |
| oly | can it be used with qt in the same way | 16:34 |
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| oly | or will it not be available | 16:35 |
| danielwilms | Khertan give it a shot if you have a day for that...it just works...and I really defended python everywhere before...it's actually quite nice | 16:35 |
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| slonopotamus | okay | 16:35 |
| satmd | Arif: either missing </sarkasm> or clearly ignoring that the java layer removes user's access to linux | 16:35 |
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| Arif | yeah it was sarcasm :( | 16:35 |
| Khertan | danielwilms: you mean using python with qt ... as when you said : "and I really defended python everywhere before" i doubt | 16:35 |
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| w00t_ | satmd: i think your sarcasm detection is disabled today | 16:35 |
| * satmd sysctls it to 1 | 16:36 | |
| * lcuk will also agree with qt improvements and streamlining things | 16:36 | |
| slonopotamus | official info from local nnokia representative: broken n900 usb connector _is_ a warranty case. | 16:36 |
| sp3000 | pekuja: there's some minor issues afaiui with country-level coarseness being used where it's less than appropriate, though I'm not sure which part to blame | 16:36 |
| lizardo | danielwilms: if you like Python and Qt .... why not use both :) | 16:36 |
| oly | I just hope that when it goes qt based it will still be able to run gtk/clutter apps | 16:36 |
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| w00t_ | Khertan: I think you're the one I said I was willing to help with Qt, btw | 16:36 |
| * satmd notes that upnp support does not work with openvpn tunnels | 16:36 | |
| w00t_ | (or one of the ones, rather) | 16:36 |
| oly | especially so my gtk apps will run :p | 16:36 |
| satmd | don't ask me why I ever tried :p | 16:36 |
| danielwilms | I had a biiig project on the n810 and use django...but try plain qt..,you have nothing to lose ;) | 16:37 |
| pekuja | sp3000: ok | 16:37 |
| lcuk | Khertan, are yo ustill developing on the go | 16:37 |
| * slonopotamus hopes they'll do smth smarter than jjust solder it back | 16:37 | |
| w00t_ | anyway, gtk isn't going anywhere, Qt just means you end up being more of a first class citizen and immune to changes in platform | 16:37 |
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| cehteh | RST38h: i am adding few things later today, but dont hold back the current version is ok, just when you package not later today fetch the new source or ask me about the state | 16:37 |
| ali1234 | i'm doing a project right now that uses django for the backend and PyQt4 for the front end | 16:37 |
| tybollt | ugh fucking sounds issues on my 900 are worse than ever | 16:37 |
| lcuk | if so, that may still e a blocker for you | 16:38 |
| dev | satmd: upnp -> http://base-art.net/Articles/115/ | 16:38 |
| * slonopotamus curses n800 for double clicks | 16:38 | |
| Khertan | w00t_: clear ... but i don't like it | 16:38 |
| tybollt | god damn piece of shit this N900 :) | 16:38 |
| satmd | 15:11:21 <@henk> /usr/include/bits/local_lim.h:39:26: error: linux/limits.h: No such file or directory | 16:38 |
| satmd | eeeeeg | 16:38 |
| Khertan | and using something i don't like most of the time means change of plateform | 16:38 |
| pillar_ | danielwilms: is it enough to tell about participation when the rules are posted online? is working on team of two gonna be accepted? | 16:38 |
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| lcuk | w00t_, "immune to changes" | 16:38 |
| lopz | hi ;) | 16:38 |
| w00t_ | Khertan: if you'd like to go over your concerns with me sometime in private to avoid creating unnecessary noise here, I'd be happy to listen | 16:38 |
| w00t_ | Khertan: it's something I have a fair bit of interest in :) | 16:39 |
| Khertan | no no no ... i didn't want to make noise | 16:39 |
| danielwilms | pillar_: the list is just to know how much interest there is... | 16:39 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: yes, qtmobility, etc, as opposed to dealing with platform-specific API | 16:39 |
| Khertan | i just trying to convince me to use qt | 16:39 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:39 |
| danielwilms | so if you can imagine to participate, sign up | 16:39 |
| danielwilms | pillar_: team of 2 is fine | 16:40 |
| w00t_ | Khertan: you misunderstand - I mean I'd be happy to talk to you, hear what worries you, and offer my knowledge to try help you out | 16:40 |
| pillar_ | danielwilms: ok thanks | 16:40 |
| Khertan | w00t_: oh thanks | 16:40 |
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| w00t_ | Stskeeps: ping | 16:41 |
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| Stskeeps | plonk | 16:42 |
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| w00t_ | good, you're here, /msg | 16:42 |
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| Khertan | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.3-1/ <<< available in extras-devel | 16:45 |
| Khertan | someone can say me if it works for him ? | 16:45 |
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| thresh | that's the package that ruins your /usr/bin ? kthx im out | 16:45 |
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| Khertan | thresh: i ve tested it before | 16:49 |
| Khertan | lol | 16:49 |
| Khertan | and not this wasn't this package | 16:49 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:49 |
| mgedmin | anybody want to package bazaar for maemo? | 16:49 |
| Khertan | but pypackager 3.0.9 | 16:49 |
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| Corsac | Khertan: hhmhm, how comes your package is already available while mine is not and I've uploaded more or less at the same time? >< | 16:55 |
| Khertan | Arif: vectormine 1.0.3-1 is available in extras-devel | 16:56 |
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| * Arif will try it out | 16:56 | |
| Khertan | Corsac: you have uploaded to what ? when and where ? | 16:56 |
| Khertan | auto builder ? | 16:56 |
| Corsac | yeah | 16:56 |
| Khertan | as vectormine was push to non-free | 16:56 |
| Corsac | ha ok | 16:56 |
| Khertan | is a binary package | 16:56 |
| Khertan | but pypackager is still waiting in the auto builder queue | 16:57 |
| Khertan | != | 16:57 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:57 |
| Corsac | is the queue visible? | 16:57 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: No it isn't ;) | 16:57 |
| Khertan | of course | 16:57 |
| X-Fade | https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-February/date.html#end | 16:57 |
| Khertan | i see that the refresh wasn't ok in my browser | 16:57 |
| X-Fade | Yours was built already. | 16:57 |
| Khertan | http://maemo.org/packages/repository/builds/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/all/ <<< better ui | 16:57 |
| Corsac | Khertan: that's the built list, not the build queue :) | 16:58 |
| Khertan | the build queue is on the small box on the right : | 16:59 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:59 |
| Khertan | ah nope sorry | 16:59 |
| Khertan | wrong link | 16:59 |
| Khertan | https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/ <<< here on the box on the right the build queue | 16:59 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:59 |
| Khertan | s/on/in | 17:00 |
| Corsac | which are empty atm? | 17:00 |
| X-Fade | Corsac: Which package did you upload? | 17:00 |
| Corsac | python-scapy and iproute | 17:00 |
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| X-Fade | Corsac: Scapy is waiting because the orig.tar.gz file is not there yet. | 17:02 |
| Corsac | uh? | 17:02 |
| Corsac | ha yes | 17:02 |
| Corsac | I didn't built with -sa | 17:02 |
| Corsac | though it kind-of thought as it was the maemo2 one the autobuilder would have it? | 17:02 |
| X-Fade | Corsac: dir is cleaned every time. | 17:03 |
| Corsac | nice | 17:03 |
| Corsac | so I can upload an orig.tar.gz different each time? | 17:03 |
| X-Fade | Corsac: yes | 17:04 |
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| Corsac | prft | 17:04 |
| Corsac | hmmh, but uploading the orig.tar.gz only won't work, I'm dumb, it won't be in the .changes file | 17:04 |
| RST38h | EU nuke boffins say that mysterious bits of uranium found last year in a Dutch scrapyard originated in the Nazi nuclear-weapons programme of the 1940s | 17:04 |
| Corsac | I need to rebuild with -sa | 17:05 |
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| matthew- | ok, how to get back my deleted SMSes | 17:24 |
| matthew- | ;d | 17:24 |
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| dazo | matthew-: do you got glogarchive? ;-) | 17:26 |
| matthew- | dazo: nope | 17:27 |
| dazo | pity! | 17:27 |
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| matthew- | well it's on debian | 17:28 |
| matthew- | there must be a way | 17:28 |
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| crashanddie | damn those europeans for always booking meetings in their timezones | 17:33 |
| Jaffa | Bastards. | 17:34 |
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| tybollt | basterds! | 17:34 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: aye | 17:34 |
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| crashanddie | tybollt: YARRR | 17:35 |
| crashanddie | anyway, I'm off to bed | 17:37 |
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| tybollt | cheers crash | 17:37 |
| tybollt | ok everybody, my first thread on TMO | 17:37 |
| matthew- | crashanddie: those bloody americans always book meetings in their time zones | 17:37 |
| matthew- | ;> | 17:38 |
| tybollt | jump over there and shout TROLL at me now! | 17:38 |
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| Corsac | ok, putting a mail in XSBC-Bugtracker doesn't exactly work fine with maemo.org package interface :) | 17:38 |
| matthew- | and australians are never there. | 17:38 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: I've taken a night off coding. I'll probably get the portal into a usable state tomorrow or something | 17:38 |
| wolf^ | tybollt, "where do you come from"? :> | 17:38 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: GeneralAntilles had a few important feedback items he gave me yesterday | 17:38 |
| matthew- | oh, and maybe you know if it's possible to retreived deleted messages? | 17:39 |
| matthew- | frals: Or, actually you may know! :) | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | hint is in the name | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | "Deleted messages" | 17:39 |
| matthew- | crashanddie: Or, just the number they were sent to... | 17:39 |
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| matthew- | there must be some log... | 17:40 |
| tybollt | wolf^: that grey rock over there. | 17:40 |
| matthew- | or from delivery reports... | 17:40 |
| crashanddie | matthew-: no, there isn't as far as I'm aware | 17:40 |
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| matthew- | crashanddie: ok | 17:40 |
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| pupnik_ | my media player still cant play new clips | 17:44 |
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| cpscotti | anyone there uses the Desktop Command Execution widget? | 17:45 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: cool | 17:45 |
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| V13 | cpscotti: me | 17:51 |
| wizkoder | moin | 17:51 |
| cpscotti | V13: like it? using version 0.9 already? | 17:51 |
| V13 | i've the latest from extras-testing. yes I like it, even thought it has couse some hangs. It seems to trigger a bug. | 17:51 |
| V13 | I've this for a couple of days: 10212 user 560 D sh -c uptime|cut -d" " -f4-|sed 's/\, *load.*//' | 17:52 |
| cpscotti | ahh.. that one.. it hangs everything if you use the commands that lock right? | 17:52 |
| V13 | I had to kill the desktop to make it respond | 17:52 |
| V13 | lock ? | 17:53 |
| cpscotti | wumm | 17:53 |
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| cpscotti | not lock.. but the desktop become unresponsive if the command doesn't respond.. | 17:53 |
| V13 | yes. | 17:53 |
| cpscotti | until the command times out or finishes | 17:53 |
| V13 | and in that case it completely locks | 17:53 |
| V13 | this command is in a bad state. seems like a kernel bug. | 17:53 |
| cpscotti | this one for the uptime I wasn't aware | 17:54 |
| V13 | it's in "D" and can't be killed | 17:54 |
| cpscotti | =/ | 17:54 |
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| cpscotti | well... the commands itself I just took from the "community"/topic on talk.maemo.org | 17:54 |
| V13 | i've killed its parent (The home) to re-parent it to init in case hildon-home wasn't wait()ing for it, but no.. even with the init as parent it is stuck | 17:54 |
| cpscotti | yeah.. pretty bad! | 17:55 |
| V13 | But that's not a problem of the app... it is most probably a kernel bug | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | dbus question. dbus-monitor says '1266592952 signal sender=:1.277 -> dest=(null destination) serial=17 path=/com/nokia/location/las; interface=com.nokia.Location.Client; member=Method | 17:55 |
| SpeedEvil | 1266592952 string "CWP" (ignore the timedstamp numbers) | 17:55 |
| cpscotti | I see.. | 17:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | I can't send this with dbus-send - as the destination is null. is this a 'broadcast' dbus message? | 17:55 |
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| cpscotti | V13: if you have some time.. give it your evaluation at garage.. let's put it in extras ... loooots of people are using it already... | 17:56 |
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| V13 | yes.. i like it too.. however, it cause some hangs, even though it is not its fault. | 17:56 |
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| cpscotti | yep.. | 17:57 |
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| cpscotti | the problem is linking the widget itself to *any* shell command.. then things get weird.. ehheahe | 17:58 |
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| V13 | by linking you mean? | 18:00 |
| cehteh | ... so finally | 18:00 |
| cpscotti | not "linking" just executing.. | 18:00 |
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| tybollt | fuck damnit | 18:00 |
| tybollt | the audio problems are known | 18:01 |
| tybollt | ~curse nokia crappy korean factory | 18:01 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia crappy korean factory ! | 18:01 |
| V13 | xaxa | 18:01 |
| V13 | (that was supposed to mean: lol) | 18:02 |
| viukkis | i don't think that would improve the quality of their work | 18:02 |
| tybollt | viukkis: :D | 18:02 |
| V13 | but it would improve customer satisfaction. | 18:02 |
| tybollt | it would, it would imensely | 18:02 |
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| cehteh | lcuk: xchat plugin update | 18:04 |
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| cehteh | few new features including dialog throttling | 18:05 |
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| cpscotti | V13: thanks for the evaluation! | 18:07 |
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| V13 | thanks for the app :) | 18:09 |
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| matthew- | ok, where are the messages saved? | 18:18 |
| matthew- | i mean SMS / conversation messages | 18:18 |
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| ptl | I dunno | 18:20 |
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| V13 | In: /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db | 18:24 |
| V13 | see: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/eventlogger/ | 18:24 |
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| Khertan | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.3-2/ <-- doesn't have the right right content for bugtracker link | 18:26 |
| Khertan | it s ok in the package control file | 18:26 |
| Khertan | so should i put a bugs on b.m.o ? | 18:27 |
| V13 | perhaps a link in the form: mailto:koko@lala would work | 18:28 |
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| ptl | what's vectormine? a vector drawing program? | 18:28 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: Takes an hour max to update. | 18:28 |
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| V13 | Khertan: I mean: set mailto:koko@lala as the bugtracker in control file. | 18:29 |
| V13 | it *may* work | 18:29 |
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| * V13 needs (again) guidance with pyqt | 18:31 | |
| V13 | with maemo-pyqt to be correct | 18:31 |
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| Quark_ | hi | 18:31 |
| Khertan | v13 > it s set to mailto:khertan@khertan.net | 18:32 |
| Khertan | i ve try both :) | 18:32 |
| V13 | oh :( | 18:32 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: ok | 18:32 |
| Quark_ | does anyone have N900? | 18:33 |
| mgedmin | o/ | 18:33 |
| pupnik_ | no | 18:33 |
| pekuja | that's a bit of a weird question on this channel, I'd say | 18:33 |
| Khertan | Quark_: yep | 18:33 |
| pekuja | we all have iPhones | 18:33 |
| * mgedmin throws a stone at pekuja | 18:34 | |
| Quark_ | i heard that N900 have so many bugs right? | 18:34 |
| V13 | right | 18:34 |
| Khertan | stupid question 2 | 18:34 |
| Quark_ | this bug can will be fixed soon or no? | 18:34 |
| Khertan | never 2 without 3 | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | it has software, therefore it has bugs | 18:34 |
| mgedmin | ;) | 18:34 |
| Khertan | and the third | 18:34 |
| Khertan | lol | 18:34 |
| Quark_ | cuz i want buy a mobile | 18:34 |
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| Quark_ | im thinking about N900 or HTC HD | 18:34 |
| * mgedmin thinks the N900 is awesome, but prefers an old Series 40 nokia for actual phone calls | 18:35 | |
| Quark_ | and sorry if this is the wrong place to write that :( | 18:35 |
| V13 | I believe hero is a lot better than hd | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | no experience with HTC HD | 18:35 |
| * V13 trolled | 18:35 | |
| * SpeedEvil uses the n900 as only phone. | 18:35 | |
| mgedmin | HTC implies either Android or Windows, right? | 18:35 |
| Khertan | it use winmo ? | 18:35 |
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| Quark_ | windows | 18:35 |
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| mgedmin | I saw a Windows mobile once | 18:35 |
| Quark_ | it uses windows | 18:35 |
| Khertan | so n900 :) | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | (that said - I've not made a call on it since November) | 18:35 |
| V13 | so you should first determine hero or hd and then n900 or htc | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | ran away screaming | 18:35 |
| * SpeedEvil isn't big with the whole calls thing. | 18:35 | |
| cpscotti | mgedmin: lolll | 18:35 |
| Quark_ | hmm | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | the UI didn't work for me | 18:36 |
| Quark_ | hard to choose a mobile nowaday :D | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | I suppose | 18:36 |
| Quark_ | sometimes i get intrested in N900 and sometimes no | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | N900 is awesome for geeky purposes | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | okay for phone calls | 18:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | Quark_: If you find a linux box in your pocket, which you can run arbitrary programs on - it's great. | 18:36 |
| mgedmin | well, okay is saying a bit much | 18:36 |
| Khertan | and the best for browsing | 18:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | If you want an app-store with eleven million fart apps, go elsewhere. | 18:36 |
| Khertan | lol | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | touchscreen interaction for responding to phone calls doesn't work for me -- I want something physical | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | a flip phone or a slide phone | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | my personal quirk | 18:37 |
| Quark_ | lol | 18:37 |
| * cpscotti can't understand doubt between n900 and the other phones.. it's the difference between a computer and a lot of game-boys | 18:37 | |
| Khertan | mgedmin: return key on the keypad | 18:37 |
| V13 | mgeadmin: this? http://livelaughlove3.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/old-phone-784028.jpg | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | with the n900 when I pulled it out of my pocket it autodetected rotation, started playing animations from portrait to landscape, then back | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | making it even more difficult to find the "answer" button on the touchscreen | 18:38 |
| * mgedmin hates the rotation animation | 18:38 | |
| Khertan | lol | 18:38 |
| Khertan | you can remove the rotation | 18:38 |
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| mgedmin | there's that transition-control app | 18:38 |
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| Khertan | i ve remove it ... i found it annoying | 18:38 |
| Khertan | go in pref on phone application | 18:38 |
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| Khertan | it s enough | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | ah, that one | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | maybe, I haven't noticed/remembered | 18:39 |
| V13 | mgedmin: which gets us to the common problem of n900 and every other too-many-things-phone.... It needs a "phone" button to make it just a phone immediately. No rotations, no zoom-in/outs. Nothing. | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | actually I swapped my real SIM card into my Nokia 6600 that one time when my N900's battery died in mid-call | 18:39 |
| V13 | even better, make this a switch | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | and never swapped it back | 18:39 |
| Khertan | V13: put a phone shortcut on desktop | 18:39 |
| V13 | khertan yeah right... I've already | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | I love and use my N900 too often for the battery to last through the day | 18:39 |
| nidO | its just as quick to use the n900 as a phone as any other phone.... | 18:39 |
| V13 | i need to unlock it, find the desktop, press the button, wait, handle rotation... crap... | 18:39 |
| nidO | press the contacts button to find a contact, or just dial the number. | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | the N900 is a good camera, though | 18:39 |
| nidO | how is any other phone quicker? | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | slide the lens cover, hit click, close lens cover | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | perfect UI | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: it's a mediochre camera. | 18:40 |
| V13 | i need to be able to call when I'm driving. I don't want a full-desktop when driving | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: it is a convenient mediochre camera though. | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | downsides: not ideal picture quality, long delay (a couple of seconds) | 18:40 |
| V13 | just a huge button: call | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | the praise was meant for the UI, I phrased it wrong initially | 18:40 |
| V13 | or "answer" | 18:40 |
| mgedmin | nice UI for uploading your photos to flickr/facebook | 18:40 |
| Khertan | V13 first remove the auto rotate from preferences | 18:40 |
| nidO | is the massive red answer button not massive enough? | 18:40 |
| V13 | khertan: but i like auto-rotate all other time. | 18:40 |
| Khertan | yep ... just unactivate it for phone | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | nidO, I can't hit it by feel without looking, so --> no | 18:41 |
| V13 | that's why i'm saying for a "phone" button. to just become a minimal phone for a while | 18:41 |
| nidO | get a handsfree kit then | 18:41 |
| V13 | i've | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I want to be able to make the camera button do that | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I never ever want to open the camera UI with the shutter closed | 18:41 |
| Khertan | SpeedEvil: it s possible | 18:41 |
| * mgedmin also gave up on handsfree kits -- stupidly short battery life, inconvenient storage, atrocious UI | 18:41 | |
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| V13 | to call from the car i need: get phone, unlock it, handle it in landscape, switch to phone app, handle in portait..car moves... now it's landscape. | 18:42 |
| Khertan | if i remember there is an app for that | 18:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | Khertan: I mean - all the way press. | 18:42 |
| mgedmin | V13, talking on the phone in a moving car -> bad idea | 18:42 |
| nidO | me, i just press the voice activation button on my steering wheel and say "call xxxx" | 18:42 |
| nidO | nice and easy. | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Khertan: not only half-press | 18:42 |
| mgedmin | *especially* without a hands-free kit | 18:42 |
| mgedmin | I believe it's illegal here | 18:42 |
| V13 | mgeadmin: well.. I may be jammed in the city. | 18:42 |
| V13 | and there are other cases. | 18:42 |
| * mgedmin sighs, remembering the voice dialling on his old Ericsson | 18:43 | |
| mgedmin | nokia insists on an artificial voice for all 200 my contacts and then cannot distinguish between them | 18:43 |
| V13 | since the phone function of ... well... a phone device (even n900) is a major thing of it's ability, then i want a button for that... | 18:43 |
| mgedmin | it's a lottery which contact it will call | 18:43 |
| * mgedmin speaks of his Series 40, not the N900 | 18:43 | |
| V13 | why do i have a button (in fact two) for the camera and not for the phone? | 18:43 |
| * mgedmin doesn't think the N900 even has voice dialling | 18:43 | |
| SpeedEvil | mgedmin: doesn't | 18:43 |
| mgedmin | in short, the N900 is an awesome handheld computer with voice chat support, but it's not a phone | 18:44 |
| nidO | because the n900 is a computer first and a phone second, simple. maybe an x6 woulda been more up your street? :\ | 18:44 |
| V13 | mgedmin: I'm aware of that :) | 18:44 |
| V13 | mgedmin: but I'd still like a phone button :) | 18:44 |
| zaheerm | nexus one sucks as a phone too | 18:44 |
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| V13 | nid0 no .. i like n900.. i won't change it for all other phones.. | 18:45 |
| V13 | but i still wont the button :) | 18:45 |
| mgedmin | smartphones aren't smart nor phones... | 18:45 |
| V13 | want | 18:45 |
| zaheerm | so do most touch screen only phones | 18:45 |
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| crashanddie | V13: wouldn't change it for any other phone | 18:45 |
| zaheerm | best "phones" have a keypad | 18:45 |
| jaska | hell, my old 6250 had voice dial | 18:45 |
| Quark_ | anyone have HTC HD? | 18:45 |
| crashanddie | would be the correct grammar | 18:45 |
| nidO | tbh, nokia needs a maemo based communicator | 18:45 |
| V13 | crashanddie: that one :) | 18:45 |
| nidO | Quark_ are you referring to an hd or an hd2? | 18:46 |
| Quark_ | hd | 18:46 |
| V13 | quark: join #htc | 18:46 |
| cehteh | mhm .. i think i made less than 5 phone calls with my n900 so far | 18:46 |
| Quark_ | hd2 so expensive in my country | 18:46 |
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| nidO | shouldnt be any more so than an n900, isnt that what your alternative is? | 18:46 |
| _andy | i'd like a capacitive touch screen. other than that the N900 is pretty much my ideal phone. | 18:46 |
| V13 | andy: here's a true store.. | 18:46 |
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| Quark_ | i have 2 choice | 18:47 |
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| Quark_ | N900 or HTC HD | 18:47 |
| Quark_ | so hard to choose | 18:47 |
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| _andy | Quark_: so you came here looking for bias...? | 18:47 |
| nidO | maemo + capacitive screen + gorilla glass + E-series communicator-style design = perfect phone | 18:47 |
| luke-jr | Quark_: LG Apollo! | 18:47 |
| cehteh | heh absolutely not hard .. which os is free? .. think choose | 18:47 |
| zaheerm | http://www.neatorama.com/2010/02/11/iphone-sausage-stylus/ <-- for capacitive screen likers | 18:47 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: neither | 18:47 |
| V13 | a month ago there was much snow and quite cold over here (greece). I was out with two friends walking while one's phone rang. Both of them have iphones and the one who's phone rang was ill so he was dressed pretty well.. | 18:47 |
| Quark_ | no i want help to choose a phone | 18:47 |
| Quark_ | i dont have good experience | 18:47 |
| Quark_ | in smartphones | 18:48 |
| luke-jr | Quark_: #htc-linux ? :) | 18:48 |
| _andy | V13: couldn't use it with gloves? | 18:48 |
| Quark_ | htc-windows | 18:48 |
| nidO | if you want a smartphone get the htc. | 18:48 |
| V13 | because of the gloves he couldn't answer the call, so he was using his nose :-)))) after failing it with that he asked the other iphone user to press his answer button :) | 18:48 |
| nidO | if you want a pocket computer with a mediocre phone in it, get the n900 | 18:48 |
| luke-jr | Quark_: fail | 18:48 |
| _andy | V13: i live in canada and have friends with iphones :) its only a matter of time because there's a good stylus for capacitive screens :) | 18:48 |
| nidO | easy | 18:48 |
| Quark_ | ok | 18:48 |
| Quark_ | thx for help | 18:48 |
| Quark_ | and sorry for waste ur time guys | 18:49 |
| _andy | Quark_: that is why we are here :) | 18:49 |
| V13 | andy: indeed.. capacitive is *really* nice. I've "access" to a htc hero and it's screen is superior, even with much less resolution. | 18:49 |
| Quark_ | ^^ | 18:49 |
| V13 | the glass and the coating make a big difference. the capacitive too | 18:49 |
| luke-jr | V13: why is capacitive nice? | 18:49 |
| luke-jr | I've only heard bad things about capacitive | 18:49 |
| nidO | the hd2's capacitive screen is really nice as well, it just seems very fragile | 18:49 |
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| Quark_ | bye for now , see u later guys | 18:49 |
| nidO | tbh manufactures really need to get round to adopting gorilla glass in a proper way | 18:50 |
| V13 | luke: it is just easier to handle and because it needs less preasure it makes the interface more smooth | 18:50 |
| _andy | also.. MULTITOUCH | 18:50 |
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| V13 | luke: observer that n900's interface is smoother when you use stylus or a nail. | 18:50 |
| luke-jr | V13: my resistive ts requires *no* pressure :p | 18:50 |
| V13 | mine requires a lot | 18:50 |
| luke-jr | V13: and I hear in general capacitive is very inaccurate | 18:50 |
| V13 | anyway, n900's screen is smehow plastic | 18:50 |
| * SpeedEvil has no problem whatsoever just using his thumbs. | 18:50 | |
| zaheerm | and my nexus one, i keep pressing the wrong things | 18:50 |
| luke-jr | V13: I can't say I ever use anything other than a stylus | 18:51 |
| zaheerm | onscreen keyboard for example is useless | 18:51 |
| V13 | luke: while hero's is glass... feels a lot better | 18:51 |
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| V13 | and hero's (and iphone's) has a coating that doesn't get ... how do you call it | 18:51 |
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| luke-jr | V13: my fingers aren't big, but they're still too big to touch accurately | 18:51 |
| V13 | what's the thing that goes from the hands on N900's screen? :) | 18:51 |
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| luke-jr | = useless | 18:51 |
| V13 | like fat | 18:51 |
| _andy | v13: fingerprints..? | 18:52 |
| SpeedEvil | V13: your fingers | 18:52 |
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| V13 | n900's screen needs cleaning | 18:52 |
| V13 | often | 18:52 |
| pekuja | V13: grease | 18:52 |
| V13 | greasy, oily | 18:52 |
| luke-jr | touchscreens are lame :p | 18:52 |
| V13 | that | 18:52 |
| pekuja | possibly dirt also | 18:52 |
| luke-jr | just give me an eraser mouse | 18:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a protector on the n900 | 18:52 |
| V13 | while hero's screen has a coating that doesn't get greasy | 18:52 |
| _andy | V13: i got a Zagg invisishield its much better for that.. doesn't need as frequent cleaning. | 18:52 |
| SpeedEvil | so I just rub it on my t-shirt | 18:52 |
| pekuja | I mean, whatever grime you might have on your fingers | 18:52 |
| nidO | touchscreens will always be kinda lame until theyre all made with gorilla glass and have antigrease coats on them | 18:52 |
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| nidO | which will also put the screen protector industry out of business | 18:53 |
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| V13 | andy: are the colors still ok? is the size right? | 18:53 |
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| V13 | so, yes... i like htc hero's screen more... and the compass.. but it stops there.. everything else is maemo/n900-win | 18:54 |
| * V13 still wants a phone-button | 18:54 | |
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| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| V13 | thnx | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| matthew- | u2 | 18:56 |
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| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
| xyz | FUCK YOU ALL | 18:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | Boring. | 18:57 |
| *** xyz was kicked by X-Fade (xyz) | 18:57 | |
| V13 | nononono.. don't kick! | 18:57 |
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| nidO | excessive ban? | 18:57 |
| V13 | just ban :) | 18:57 |
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| matthew- | he would kill himself with excess flood | 18:57 |
| V13 | he'd be mute | 18:57 |
| smhar | I spent a lot of time reading the many pages of talk.maemo.org -and meego.com- but still nobody seems to get a definite answer, so any one got some news on this? with the introduction of meego is the N900 a dead road? I WAS planning to get one soon | 18:57 |
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| V13 | smhar: you mean the hardware or the software ? | 18:58 |
| X-Fade | Will remove the ban a bit later. | 18:58 |
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| V13 | smhar: the hardware is just like other phones: becomes obsolete after some time... The software most probably will be upgradable to a point. | 18:58 |
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| nidO | just no guarantees yet what that point is | 18:58 |
| SpeedEvil | There are people porting meego to n900 as we speak | 18:58 |
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| V13 | "porting meego" ? | 18:59 |
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| smhar | V13, I mean is the hardware | 18:59 |
| V13 | you mean fremantle ? | 18:59 |
| smhar | SpeedEvil, people? | 18:59 |
| Wizzup | Does anyone use wpa_supplicant on N900? | 18:59 |
| nidO | hardware of all phones gets obsolete within a few months | 18:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | smhar: humans. | 18:59 |
| V13 | smhar: the hardware of all devices becomes obsolete when newer hardware becomes available. | 18:59 |
| DarkGUNMAN | afternoon all | 19:00 |
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| V13 | in #meego: villemv> smhar: Stskeeps will port Meego for n900 ;-) | 19:00 |
| Wizzup | It seems maemo's default networking app doesn't support te features I need for wifi | 19:00 |
| DarkGUNMAN | quick question if anyone knows anything abou it.. | 19:00 |
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| * mierda butt turd | 19:00 | |
| smhar | V13, on high end -expensive- devices, this usually mean a couple of years, atleast in Nokia, not a couple of months | 19:00 |
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| V13 | smhar: it depends on the rate of new device deployment | 19:01 |
| DarkGUNMAN | has anyone tried installing filezilla on easy debian successfully? | 19:01 |
| V13 | how do you define "dead road" ? | 19:01 |
| nidO | a couple of years? | 19:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Wizzup: in what way? | 19:01 |
| nidO | how dyou figure that? | 19:01 |
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| V13 | smhar: the hardware it not upgraded, so it isn't affected by such changes | 19:01 |
| Wizzup | SpeedEvil: no EAP+TTLS | 19:01 |
| Wizzup | +PAP* | 19:01 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 19:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | IIRC the GUI configurator does the WPA_supplicanty stuff too | 19:02 |
| Wizzup | I think I found it... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1635 | 19:02 |
| povbot | Bug 1635: Eduroam (EAP-TTLS+PAP) WiFi auth | 19:02 |
| smhar | v13, and specially not ones running linux based systems. I am still using a Dreambox 700 which I update regularly although it is discontinued. My home network server is P233 MHz running the latest debian updated regularly | 19:02 |
| nidO | smhar it also entirely depends on exactly what you mean by "obsolete" - my e90 (one of the most expensive phones nokia has ever made?) is an ancient decrepid piece of crap by current standards in terms of the hardware that's in it, but it still does everything perfectly fine | 19:02 |
| V13 | smhar: but now you're talking about the software. | 19:03 |
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| V13 | smhar: are you asking whether n900 won't be the top Nokia's device for a long time ? | 19:03 |
| smhar | v13, no. I am talking about the software being supported by developers. if it was not based on linux, the DB7000 would be a huge door stopper by now. | 19:04 |
| V13 | s/won't/well | 19:04 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: thanks | 19:04 |
| mtnbkr | Wizzup: and of course those features: 802.1x + eap/TTLS with inner PAP are what I need too :( | 19:04 |
| V13 | "of course" :-))) | 19:04 |
| smhar | V13, I am asking whether Nokia will be CARING about N900 any more | 19:04 |
| Wizzup | mtnbkr: That's why I asked about wpa_supplicant | 19:05 |
| V13 | so you're talking about s/w releases / updates ? | 19:05 |
| nidO | smhar - crystall ball says sortof. | 19:05 |
| * Wizzup will try config files | 19:05 | |
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| mierda | dame la papel de inodoro. necesito tomar una mierda muy grande. | 19:05 |
| smhar | V13, or just depends on 'other people' to provide updates and new releases when they find time | 19:05 |
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| crashanddie | is it stupid night? | 19:06 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 19:06 | |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: +q $~a | 19:06 | |
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| V13 | +q ? | 19:07 |
| * Wizzup tries to find the wlan config files on maemo 5 | 19:07 | |
| crashanddie | V13: quiets people who aren't registered | 19:07 |
| V13 | oh.. thnx | 19:07 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: if anyone complains they can't talk, just remove the +q. I've just banned any unregistered users to prevent other disruptions as we've just had | 19:07 |
| crashanddie | I'm off to bed, for the third time, bye | 19:07 |
| mgedmin | bit of a catch-22 there, innit? | 19:10 |
| mgedmin | how can they complain they can't talk if they can't talk? | 19:10 |
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| cehteh | are the brightness levels somewhere configureable (i mean the relation of the drivers brightness to one of the 5 selectable ones) | 19:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | cehteh: ++ | 19:19 |
| SpeedEvil | level '1' is _WAY_ too bright | 19:19 |
| crashanddie | mgedmin: by doing a /chanserv #maemo access list ? | 19:19 |
| SpeedEvil | for dark-adapted eyes | 19:19 |
| V13 | yes.. level 1 in 256 and level 2 is 64... | 19:19 |
| cehteh | yeah i need something like 0, 0.5, 1.5 and 5 | 19:19 |
| V13 | i mean 5 is 256 and 4 is 64.. | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | crashanddie, which is an invalid command, fwiw | 19:20 |
| cehteh | 5 settings are enouhg, but they should be better configureable | 19:20 |
| V13 | I need level "128" or half the full bright | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | wasn't trying to keep you from bed, just admiring the situation | 19:20 |
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| crashanddie | mgedmin: my bad, it's 3:20 here... /chanserv access #maemo list | 19:20 |
| mgedmin | you need to be nickserv-registered for private messages on freenode | 19:21 |
| mgedmin | iirc | 19:21 |
| cehteh | also the relation between the brightness sensor could be little better (its already good, but not good enough) | 19:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | An actual slider would be nice | 19:24 |
| crashanddie | mgedmin: only if you have the +R mode on your account | 19:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | press one of the 5 buttons, get one of the presets. Slide on the little bright/dark area and tweak | 19:25 |
| * mgedmin still feels like a total irc noob even after all these years | 19:25 | |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: i'd like a self-learing system .. and then maybe only +/- buttons | 19:25 |
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| mgedmin | isn't that mode on by default? | 19:25 |
| cehteh | you know punish&reward training | 19:25 |
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| mgedmin | ah, on the _recipient's_ account | 19:25 |
| mgedmin | so channel ops can clear that mode and hear requests from anybody | 19:25 |
| * mgedmin totally confused now ;) | 19:26 | |
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| cehteh | freenode is always a little diffrent | 19:26 |
| cehteh | just ignore it | 19:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | Can you run >1 x-servers? When I try to start anotehr - it just sulks. (Xorg :2) | 19:29 |
| V13 | yes you can | 19:31 |
| V13 | "sulks" ? | 19:31 |
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| V13 | (I hope you don't mean in n900) | 19:31 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, Ido | 19:32 |
| V13 | oh.. sry :) | 19:32 |
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| cehteh | how would you switch them? | 19:33 |
| tybollt | hmm | 19:34 |
| tybollt | there we go | 19:34 |
| V13 | chvt ? | 19:34 |
| tybollt | why was the chan muted again? | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: oh - of course - these are fbs - not vts | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 19:34 |
| cehteh | ctrl-alt-f8? :) | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | chvt over ssh | 19:34 |
| tybollt | ~curse nokla poor manufacturing skills | 19:34 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokla poor manufacturing skills ! | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | FUCK YOU ALL | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | repeated lots | 19:35 |
| V13 | lol :) | 19:35 |
| V13 | (don't kick) it reminds of | 19:35 |
| V13 | FUCK YOU ALL | 19:35 |
| V13 | sorry.. wrong key-binding pressed | 19:35 |
| cehteh | .. | 19:35 |
| tybollt | SpeedEvil: sigh why don't the kiddies stop, ever? :( | 19:35 |
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| cehteh | SpeedEvil: with this kindof special driver, clutter, closed gl and stuff i doubt you will have success, but you may try | 19:36 |
| inz | V13, http://www.bash.org/?5300 ? | 19:36 |
| tybollt | *fart* | 19:36 |
| cehteh | trying to get xephyr to the device might be easier | 19:36 |
| V13 | exactly | 19:36 |
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| V13 | isn't easy debian working with xephyr ? | 19:37 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: Or just killing X and restarting | 19:37 |
| cehteh | i never tried to frickle with X on the device .. i expect there is some watchdog barking | 19:37 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 19:37 |
| SpeedEvil | you can kill that trivially though | 19:37 |
| SpeedEvil | it'll be started with dsmetool | 19:37 |
| cehteh | well i didnt need it yet | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | I was wanting to play with seeing if smaller bpp desktops use apperciably less power | 19:38 |
| cehteh | and i just reboot, i dont aim for uptime records with this phone | 19:38 |
| cehteh | certainly not | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | smaller than 16bpp? | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 19:38 |
| mgedmin | would that be 15bpp or 8bpp? | 19:39 |
| cehteh | why should it, its hardware accelerated and its optimized to that hardware | 19:39 |
| mgedmin | does the hardware support 8bpp? | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | One laptop - 1bpp desktop used - IIRC - 8% less power. | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 19:39 |
| auke | smaller bpp means less memory used, means less memory access -> potentially saving power | 19:39 |
| cehteh | might even use more power when emulate something different which it isnt intended for | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | But you've still got memory traffic across the bus | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | with lower bpp, you don't. | 19:39 |
| cehteh | well have fun | 19:39 |
| SpeedEvil | (or at least much less) | 19:39 |
| auke | you can probably save more power in other ways (reducing bitmap sizes e.g.) | 19:40 |
| cehteh | in the emulator i tried to change the dpi for resizing fonts globally, that worked, but never tried that on the device | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | potentially, yes. | 19:40 |
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| auke | yup. potentially :) | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | You could also play with undervolting. | 19:40 |
| cehteh | or biggier battery | 19:41 |
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| * SpeedEvil ponders. | 19:43 | |
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| SpeedEvil | Interesting. RAID works. | 19:56 |
| cehteh | on the n900? | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | In that reading from both MMCs you get considerably faster than one | 19:56 |
| cehteh | yeah | 19:56 |
| cehteh | i was thinking about that | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | 27M/s | 19:56 |
| cehteh | nice | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | read | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | With 150K bocks | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | blocks | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I was idly wondering how silly suspend-disk would be | 19:57 |
| cehteh | well first i want the camera being able to write to non fat fs | 19:57 |
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| cehteh | yet alone ext4 would be much faster than fat on the same disk | 19:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | Adding /dev/ubi0_0 seems not to help much. I guess it's contended with one of the others | 20:00 |
| cehteh | you dont want to deal with the ubi stuff, thats going to crap your device | 20:00 |
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| cehteh | if the nand is damaged you really have a problem | 20:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | You need to do ECC related stuff, yes | 20:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | I am somewhat surprised my cheap crap 1G SD card gets only barely slower (10s vs 8.7) than the internal MMC to read 150M. The ubi device is third at 10.5. | 20:05 |
| SpeedEvil | (reading uncontended) | 20:06 |
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| cehteh | well this tests are not very meaningful, you want to know how they behave after some use with real (random filesystem) workload | 20:09 |
| ShadowJK | read speeds are generally iaround 10M even with class 2 cards | 20:09 |
| ShadowJK | yes, sequential speeds are generally useless | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I mean as a hypothetical workload restore from disk. | 20:09 |
| cehteh | especially sd has high latency but is fast for sequential access | 20:09 |
| ShadowJK | and raid makes it worse :-) | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | For which sequential read is sane | 20:10 |
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| LuciusMare | Hello, is it safe to run apt-get upgrade from console? | 20:10 |
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| cehteh | no | 20:10 |
| ShadowJK | ever used suspend to disk? it's not sequential write/read.:D | 20:10 |
| LuciusMare | how come? | 20:10 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: it pretty much was IIRC - when I last used it. | 20:10 |
| cehteh | iirc ham sprinkles some fairy dust over apt to clean and put temp files somewhere else and not on the rootfs | 20:10 |
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| cehteh | with apt-get upgrade from the console your rootfs may become full, at least happend for me | 20:11 |
| ShadowJK | Basically the first phase it swaps out all applications, and then writes and image to the end. the swapout part, and especially the swapin part on resume can be extremely random :) | 20:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I'm talking of an ideal future where it's all linear. | 20:12 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 20:12 |
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| cehteh | nilfs :P | 20:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I find that odd - as I don't recall suspend being that slow. | 20:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | It seemed to be doing of the order of the disks r/w bandwidthg | 20:12 |
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| LuciusMare | so, why? | 20:13 |
| cehteh | LuciusMare: ^ | 20:13 |
| ShadowJK | on my pc it does about 5megs per sec on a hd that does over 60M/sec write :) | 20:13 |
| cehteh | well try and figure | 20:13 |
| LuciusMare | cehteh: my connection just failed | 20:14 |
| cehteh | [19:11] <cehteh> iirc ham sprinkles some fairy dust over apt to clean and put temp files somewhere else and not on the rootfs | 20:14 |
| cehteh | [19:11] <cehteh> with apt-get upgrade from the console your rootfs may become full, at least happend for me | 20:14 |
| LuciusMare | hm | 20:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I wonder if I was last using it under the old suspend infrastructure. | 20:15 |
| LuciusMare | okay then, but there are several pqackages (like gstreamer) that do not show in ham | 20:15 |
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| cehteh | maybe do a HAM udate first and try apt update afterwards? .. dunno i never cared | 20:16 |
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| ShadowJK | ham upgrades libraries when an app upgrade needs it | 20:19 |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders why there is no UK upgrade. | 20:19 | |
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| cehteh | its an island, which had some snow problems, shipping there is not easy | 20:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | The UK is not an island. | 20:21 |
| SpeedEvil | The UK is two islands. | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | one and a fraction? | 20:22 |
| SpeedEvil | (not counting the lots of little ones) | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | or do the little ones and that fraction add up to one full island? | 20:22 |
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| odin_ | so I have to do something in scratchbox so packages for SDK upgrade are "authenticated" ? | 20:24 |
| * SpeedEvil had assumed that tehre was no actual localisation going on - it was simply rolling out the firmware by region. | 20:24 | |
| mgedmin | in ye olden days apt-get upgrade could've broken your tablet | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | e.g. by upgrading essential system packages with SDK versions, for those who added SDK repositories to their tablets | 20:24 |
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| mgedmin | or by simply restarting core system services that trigger a watchdog reboot with the upgrade half-finished | 20:24 |
| mgedmin | I don't know if all those issues have been fixed on the n900 | 20:24 |
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| mgedmin | HAM is the only officially supported upgrade tool (well, that, and flashing the whole rootfs, which is more like wipe + restore than upgrade) | 20:25 |
| odin_ | apt-get upgrade: WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! .... how can I fix that in the SDK ? | 20:25 |
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| V13 | do you see any thanks on the first post of: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=520370 ? | 20:25 |
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| mgedmin | V13, I don't | 20:26 |
| V13 | wtf.. | 20:26 |
| V13 | there were a lot, i pressed thanks and they disapeared ! | 20:26 |
| V13 | and I can't "thank" or "remove thanks" in that post | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I guess the main issue is with RF regulations | 20:27 |
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| V13 | Look: http://imagebin.ca/view/cEzbCf3Z.html | 20:30 |
| V13 | how can i report this for t.m.o ? | 20:30 |
| SpeedEvil | possibly | 20:30 |
| mgedmin | V13, caching issues? | 20:31 |
| V13 | with you too ? | 20:32 |
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| V13 | ok.. bug report submitted... | 20:34 |
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| V13 | bb | 20:36 |
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| ensonic | bah, the flasher does indeed not work on opensuse11.2 | 20:43 |
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| cehteh | ensonic: will you be at LAC? | 20:54 |
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| * RST38h yawns | 20:58 | |
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| cehteh | heh .. morning or whatever :P .. you can package my xchat plugin now, i added few things should be really ok now | 21:00 |
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| ensonic | cehteh: I submitted a talk, so most probably yes :) | 21:01 |
| cehteh | ok, see you there | 21:01 |
| ensonic | cehteh: if you tell me who you are ... | 21:02 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: Did you get the remotely activate front camera thing working properly? | 21:02 |
| cehteh | ensonic: we met 2 years ago on lac, lumiera video editor.. | 21:02 |
| ensonic | cehteh: ahh, remember | 21:02 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: huh? me? never tried | 21:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | nvm - I was implying there was a trojan. | 21:04 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders what fraction of code in extras has ever been read since submission. | 21:04 | |
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| cehteh | hehe poor spy it he has to use that crappy front-cam :P | 21:05 |
| SpeedEvil | s/frac/tiny frac/ | 21:06 |
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| RST38h | SpeedEvil: somehow I suspect that was a rhetorical question | 21:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | no. | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I actually do wonder what fraction of the code has been read. | 21:07 |
| cehteh | hey .. we can make video chat over irc .. the frontcam should barly suffice for libaa rendered video :) | 21:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Or even compared with upstream | 21:07 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: yeah i guess so too .. but well .. my code is open and i use it by myself feel free to review it | 21:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't expect that there is one in there. idly wondering | 21:08 |
| cehteh | i even posted only the code first that anyone has to self compile it .. only someone asked for posting a binary | 21:08 |
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| cehteh | i mean yes, i think this are valid concerns and some code-review tool for maemo.org would be nice | 21:09 |
| cehteh | just that *someone* reads code, comment on it and signs it | 21:10 |
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| cehteh | if you then trust his skills, comments and signature is another thing, but that would be a start | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 21:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | First cut to catch system() is quite easy. | 21:10 |
| SpeedEvil | And doesn't take much skill. | 21:10 |
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| cehteh | nah thats to easy .. | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Catching more advanced stuff like buffer exploits... | 21:11 |
| cehteh | you should suspect that anyone who want to slip a trojan in will do little harder | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 21:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | Like writing a jpeg library so that the decompressor has a subtle bug that allows stack overflow. | 21:11 |
| cehteh | or a xchat plugin :P | 21:12 |
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| b0unc3 | hi guys, which is the best method to start an installed application from a gui (C/GTK) ? | 21:16 |
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| cehteh | provide a .desktop file? | 21:17 |
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| b0unc3 | cehteh, I want to run an installed application reading the .desktop file from my own app | 21:18 |
| cehteh | hehe system() :P | 21:18 |
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| cehteh | well seriously .. there are some dbus message to start apps | 21:19 |
| b0unc3 | cehteh, system for the bin execution maybe... but I want to use a clean way with dbus/libosso | 21:19 |
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| jeez_ | Is there a file where I can find the sizes of widgets, shortcuts, etc, from the Hildon Home ? With gconf I found all positions, but no sizes | 21:23 |
| jeez_ | the shortcut icons always have the same size but widgets don't | 21:24 |
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| pwnguin | hmm. this is annyoing. i can't remember where i saw the source code that turns the video camera red LED on and off =/ | 21:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | it's in the video driver | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | see the n900_led_flashlight page on the wiki, I linked to it | 21:31 |
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| shinkamui | my finger hurts | 21:38 |
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| cehteh | too much angry birds? | 21:41 |
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| Lumpio- | Angry Birds is Maemo's Tuxracer, I take it | 21:43 |
| Lumpio- | (I want new levels >_< | 21:43 |
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| * SpeedEvil has done all 3 tiers of levels, and still wants more. | 21:44 | |
| Lumpio- | There's more tiers? >_> | 21:44 |
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| Lumpio- | I never figured out how to get them | 21:44 |
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| Lumpio- | ...not that I tried anything besides the button that appears at the end, which just seems to let you download the same app again | 21:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | Lumpio-: there are 3*21 levels | 21:46 |
| Lumpio- | How do I get moar :< | 21:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | Lumpio-: I got the other 2 via apt-get | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | before I realised they were pay-for | 21:47 |
| Lumpio- | I thought they weren't out or something since it just kept offering me the first one | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | they haven't properly sorted out the store yet | 21:47 |
| Lumpio- | Wait you can just get them like that? >_> | 21:47 |
| Lumpio- | hah | 21:47 |
| Lumpio- | What are the package names | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | that got pulled | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I think I've nuked the original package :/ | 21:47 |
| pwnguin | fg | 21:47 |
| Lumpio- | aw | 21:48 |
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| Nitial | there are some community made levels, but yeah, the official level pack hasn't returned to store :( | 21:52 |
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| pwnguin | SpeedEvil: actually, i dont think it is. i was fairly sure it was in gdigicam =/ | 21:54 |
| pwnguin | SpeedEvil: the logic to turn the led on / off during recording I mean | 21:54 |
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| Lumpio- | Meh | 21:58 |
| Lumpio- | I've already completed the first 21 levels with 3 stars and I want more :( | 21:58 |
| Lumpio- | damn slow nokia | 21:58 |
| pwnguin | Lumpio-: you could try sgt-puzzles | 21:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | enigma is also annoying | 21:59 |
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| Lumpio- | pwnguin: I doubts it has birds | 22:03 |
| pwnguin | it has kenken | 22:03 |
| RST38h | http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/02/500x_ti.jpg | 22:04 |
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| Lumpio- | WTF is that | 22:05 |
| Lumpio- | (device) | 22:05 |
| RST38h | Maemo6! | 22:05 |
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| Milo- | dual screen! | 22:06 |
| RST38h | That is why you cannot run it on N900: TWO SCREENS | 22:06 |
| lcuk | i have 2 n900s | 22:06 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, that looks wrong tho | 22:06 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: I am sure you have not glued yours like that yet | 22:07 |
| Milo- | that's the reason why calculator companies shouldn't go to mobile phone business | 22:07 |
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| Lumpio- | Judging by the keyboard that thing must be /ginormous/ | 22:07 |
| Lumpio- | If it's supposed to be thumbable thatis | 22:07 |
| Lumpio- | Who shopped it? | 22:07 |
| pwnguin | well, until you can close it to trigger suspend gimmick puzzles | 22:07 |
| lcuk | RST38h, duct tape | 22:07 |
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| Stskeeps | wb jebba900 | 22:10 |
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| RST38h | "In this video from the annual DICE summit,Schell comments on recent evolutions in gaming before fixating on a concept where our futures evolve into one big RPG." | 22:12 |
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| * SpeedEvil plays a magician-idiot. | 22:13 | |
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| * ShadowJK shakes his head at the people on tmo graphing the battery meter and drawing tangents trying to come up with smart sounding conclusions | 22:24 | |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, cool | 22:26 |
| lcuk | where | 22:26 |
| * lcuk likes graphs | 22:27 | |
| lcuk | and wiggly lines | 22:27 |
| lcuk | especially scrolling them | 22:27 |
| ShadowJK | battery-eye or battery-graph something in -devel or -testing | 22:27 |
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| ShadowJK | but the nature of the battery meter on n900, and the way that it's updated makes it pretty unusable for drawing tangents and looking at the slope | 22:28 |
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| Arkenoi | proporta case seems to be much better than pdair. no film on keyboard at least. | 22:30 |
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| jacekowski | mhm | 22:31 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, also, im betting it updates pretty slowly | 22:31 |
| jacekowski | http://⌘.ws/葖 | 22:31 |
| jacekowski | http://➡.ws/餋ᶇ | 22:32 |
| jacekowski | http://tinyarro.ws/ | 22:32 |
| jacekowski | nice tinyurl thingy | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk: once every 2 hours when idle ime | 22:32 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, i meant to see drastic changes | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk: or randomly every few minutes when screen is on | 22:32 |
| lcuk | i have a battery doofer here that just moves from empty to full | 22:33 |
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| ShadowJK | doofer? | 22:33 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, technical term, i zoom into it in here http://www.youtube.com/user/lcukmaemo#p/a/u/2/7hGUKICDeok | 22:34 |
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| ShadowJK | heh | 22:37 |
| ShadowJK | the n900 meter does roughly that at end of charge | 22:38 |
| ShadowJK | in one big leap :D | 22:38 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, theres no way for any battery meter to get it right | 22:40 |
| lcuk | i was sat in amsterdam at the summit, and my device was giving me death wails | 22:41 |
| lcuk | i sat down to take some notes | 22:41 |
| lcuk | and it lasted the next 2 hours | 22:41 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, htere is. | 22:41 |
| SpeedEvil | but it's comple. | 22:41 |
| lcuk | it infact stopped moanin | 22:41 |
| SpeedEvil | x | 22:41 |
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| lcuk | yeah of | 22:41 |
| lcuk | c | 22:41 |
| SpeedEvil | You need a decent battery model | 22:42 |
| Shrik3 | http://www.meegos.com/ - using MeeGo reguires a meego avatar, true story. | 22:42 |
| ShadowJK | Well, I'd actually define the goal of the battery meter as measuring where between full snf battery-low-warning it is :) | 22:43 |
| ShadowJK | s/snf/and | 22:43 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, but if you smooth it too much it will be wrong | 22:44 |
| lcuk | and if its too fine, it will be wrong | 22:44 |
| lcuk | there is no perfect way | 22:44 |
| SpeedEvil | you don't smooth it | 22:45 |
| SpeedEvil | you calculate the energy remaining in the battery, and display that. | 22:45 |
| lcuk | yeah | 22:45 |
| SpeedEvil | This takes either a charge meter chip - or some annoying maths. | 22:45 |
| SpeedEvil | there is no charge meter in the n900 | 22:45 |
| lcuk | and if you display it whilst theres a 0.1second 100% cpu busy spot | 22:45 |
| lcuk | it will say 10seconds remain | 22:46 |
| lcuk | then cpu drops back to idle | 22:46 |
| lcuk | and you get 1hr | 22:46 |
| ShadowJK | My software meter on n810 is 1% accurate within 18 hours (of resetting it) and similar use, and about 10% accuracy for a few days :D | 22:46 |
| SpeedEvil | yes - I'm meaning you can meaningfully display amount the battery will supply in each usecase. | 22:46 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's not trivial. | 22:46 |
| ShadowJK | Oh, time estimates are pure bull | 22:47 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, but your capacity is based on current and voltage drop and stuff | 22:47 |
| lcuk | and that changes with device usage | 22:47 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 22:48 |
| SpeedEvil | If you have a proper charge meter, it's not. | 22:48 |
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| ShadowJK | On N8x0 we can access the current sensor | 22:49 |
| SpeedEvil | If you don't - you can fake it to a large degree - but the code isn't trivial | 22:49 |
| ShadowJK | check out hald-addon-bme stuff in Mer for how | 22:49 |
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| ShadowJK | So I set my counter to 0 at battery low warning, connect charger, measure charge-consumption, add it to the counter once per second | 22:50 |
| ShadowJK | and then stream shoutcast until battery empty, and the meter has been very close to 0 | 22:50 |
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| ShadowJK | N900 most probaböy has a current sensor... However, I don't think it has a integrating battery fuel gauge chip.. | 22:52 |
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| ShadowJK | I suspect it occasionally samples battery voltage, and perhaps also samples the current consumption to correct the voltage with a model of the battery's internal resistance, and another model to map that voltage to remaining capacity | 22:54 |
| lcuk | dont forget to take temp into account | 22:55 |
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| sobczyk_ | hi anyone here user qtirreco? | 22:56 |
| ShadowJK | if it's really clever it could poll the current sensor constantly during charge (hey, infinite amounts of power available, lets burn it on polling!) to adjust the internal resistance model as the batery ages, and also to measure the current capacity of the battery | 22:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: I saw nothing spectacularly clever in the bme driver kernelside | 23:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: the voltage polling seemingly stops with - at least - the display off | 23:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is perhaps suboptimal. | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | I think the general rule is that it's checked if the battery icon is visible | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | If you explicitly read /sys/voltage - it should retrigger it | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | umm | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Unsure. | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think so | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | a lot of the time I had fbreader open and it seemed ok | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | Sometimes it seems I've been able to "force" an update by tapping the status bar to open the status menu's bigger battery icon :) | 23:04 |
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| ShadowJK | There are also chips available where the "magic" is in the chip itself :) | 23:07 |
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| sobczyk_ | why there is no middle repository between the poor extras and sometimes broken extras-devel? | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to teach strace how to understand shit. | 23:08 |
| SpeedEvil | ioctls | 23:08 |
| ifreq | sobczyk_: there is testing.. | 23:08 |
| sobczyk_ | ifreq, It has the same packages as -devel | 23:08 |
| ifreq | not all | 23:09 |
| sobczyk_ | whatI'm referring to are the broken pyqt | 23:09 |
| ifreq | not everyone package from devel has been promoted to testing | 23:09 |
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| lcuk | sobczyk_, -testing is that middle ground | 23:11 |
| lcuk | sometimes tho the wrong thing can be pushed up | 23:11 |
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| lcuk | and since you can only have 1 in testing | 23:11 |
| lcuk | it just replaces and then makes vanish | 23:12 |
| lcuk | if you demote | 23:12 |
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| sobczyk_ | some packages have bad dependencies | 23:19 |
| thresh | how do i read image alt text in microb? | 23:20 |
| thresh | e.g. how do i read xkcd | 23:21 |
| lcuk | You want me to pick up waffle cones? Oh, right, for the wine. One sec, let me just derive your son's credit card number and I'll be on my way." alt="Principle of Explosion | 23:21 |
| sobczyk_ | ie. ankiqt in extras-devel lacks python2.5-qt4-gui and more, and it fails during launch probably because of a pyqt bug | 23:21 |
| ifreq | sobczyk_: then contact the builder | 23:22 |
| ifreq | err maintainer | 23:22 |
| thresh | lcuk: okay, i'll poke you on monday then :D | 23:22 |
| lcuk | thresh, just ask in chan | 23:22 |
| lcuk | its easiest method | 23:22 |
| thresh | helpful community, loving it | 23:23 |
| lcuk | ive had it answered for me numerous times | 23:23 |
| lcuk | xkcd is the only place people ask, we should get upstream to change their site ;) | 23:24 |
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| sobczyk_ | anyone tried the adblock and/or greasemonkey? | 23:26 |
| sobczyk_ | whether they slow down the browser or not | 23:27 |
| greenfly | sobczyk_: I had to blow away the addon dir first before it worked for me | 23:27 |
| SpeedEvil | adblock may speed it up | 23:27 |
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| sobczyk_ | greasemonkey could be used for alt in xkcd :) | 23:28 |
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| AntiXpucT | hi there | 23:29 |
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| AntiXpucT | anybody knows, where i can get ipv6 module and some repository with zsh-4.3.10 (and other soft) for fremantle (Maemo 5)? | 23:31 |
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| cehteh | grr bouncer switch | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | things i'd never think i'd hear myself think: "oh, i have a too old version of DSME". | 23:39 |
| lcuk | AntiXpucT, i dont know specifically, at fosdem i heard someone talking about ipv6 modules for n900 | 23:40 |
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| thresh | hmmmm | 23:47 |
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| thresh | enter doesnt work in mutt2 while launched in screen | 23:48 |
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| thresh | any ideas? | 23:48 |
| cehteh | \o/ new bouncer ... | 23:48 |
| thresh | every other app seem to be ok | 23:48 |
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| cehteh | hehe someone asked me for the same problem earlier | 23:48 |
| cehteh | the enter key on the n900 is kp-enter not return .. you have to be creative and remap that somehow | 23:49 |
| thresh | at least thats not a local misconfig then :) | 23:49 |
| thresh | okay | 23:49 |
| lcuk | holy crap, http://www.smartertechnology.com/images/stories/LGexpo.jpg | 23:49 |
| lcuk | next we will get warp nacells on the sides of cell phones. | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | wtf | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:50 |
| * lcuk can just imagine the new nokia N1701 boldly going where no phone has gone before | 23:50 | |
| lcuk | http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/02/19/219245/Considering-Cheaper-Pico-Projectors-As-Standard-Equipment-On-Cell-Phones?from=twitter | 23:50 |
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