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| mak89k | the following command "Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -kb &" launches the blank window.. and the "[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] >af-sb-init.sh start: give me errors.. any ideas? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| jophish | X-Fade, I'm going to get pretty close to that. Uploaded two packages seconds apart, one made it, the other didn't | 00:01 |
| alterego | mak89k: have you set the DISPLAY=:2 environment variable? | 00:01 |
| mak89k | yes | 00:01 |
| alterego | mak89k: past your error to pastie.org | 00:02 |
| X-Fade | jophish: Upload != in repository ;) | 00:02 |
| alterego | ~paste .. | 00:02 |
| jophish | promoted* | 00:02 |
| mtd | jebba: thanks again for your work building all the etch packages, and with #7707 | 00:02 |
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| mtd | jebba: if it gets all sorted out might I impose on you for an account on your community build machine? I've some small packages of my own plus gcc that I'd like to build | 00:03 |
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| X-Fade | jophish: caching network ;) Check the http header to see how long it will cache for. | 00:05 |
| jophish | ah, thanks | 00:05 |
| jebba | mtd: gimme your email addr and i'll set you up on SDK box. | 00:06 |
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| merp | X-Fade, follow the instructions. removed "input" from the main.conf DisablePlugins list. saved, restarted bluetoothd. re-paired keyboard. still no typing. any further suggestions on debug, logging, or something else to check? thanks. | 00:06 |
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| woglinde | he javis | 00:07 |
| javispedro | moo woglinde | 00:07 |
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| woglinde | javis did you attend fosdem? | 00:07 |
| jebba | seems optification is still missing /usr/bin/* link. | 00:07 |
| javispedro | woglinde: uh, nope. | 00:07 |
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| anpr | heya | 00:09 |
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| mak89k | alterego: http://pastie.org/815353 | 00:11 |
| anpr | guys anyone is not sleeping and maybe wants to explain me some things ? | 00:11 |
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| mece | anpr, what did you want to know? I'm not sure I'm the right person to answer, but I can give it a shot | 00:13 |
| t-tan | mtd: why do you need your own gcc? | 00:14 |
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| merp | this is the Palm 3245ww bluetooth keyboard I am attempting to get working under n900. I have followd directions here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles and enabled the input profile and restarted the daemon and successfully paired. but when I open xterm or Notes. typing on the keyboard does not do anything. Anyone have any additional suggestions? thanks. | 00:14 |
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| t-tan | I have built gcc 4.4.3 (+other langs) but the programs compiled with it often crash qemu :-( | 00:16 |
| kakashi_ | (10:46:51 PM) ***kakashi runs | 00:17 |
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| mtd | t-tan: none existed a few days ago, AFAIK. If that's changed, great! | 00:18 |
| mtd | t-tan: what repo is it in? | 00:18 |
| t-tan | mtd: I can upload it to my repo. it's optified | 00:19 |
| mtd | jebba: thanks! | 00:19 |
| mak89k | alterego: any ideas? | 00:19 |
| mtd | t-tan: that'd be cool | 00:19 |
| mtd | t-tan: I just noticed that gcc-4.2-base has appeared from some repo (perhaps jebba's?) | 00:19 |
| mak89k | alterego: http://pastie.org/815361 | 00:19 |
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| t-tan | mtd: you could also install gcc-4.2 from SDK but it's not optified | 00:20 |
| alterego | mak89k: sorry no, not sure what's going wrong there. | 00:20 |
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| mtd | t-tan: ah yes well I won't be doing that on my n900 then :) | 00:20 |
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| mtd | t-tan: now I remember this conversation. Yeah, so that's why I want my own gcc: so I can optify it (and its dependencies) | 00:21 |
| mak89k | alterego: i did the gui install .. and the maemo launche is working.. i mean i can run the simulator | 00:21 |
| mtd | t-tan: according to #7707, optification has a ways to go though :( | 00:21 |
| mtd | t-tan: it's making progress. | 00:21 |
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| t-tan | mtd: one can optifiy existing deb packages without recompiling them | 00:22 |
| Damion2 | binfmt_misc works of x86 binaries now :) | 00:23 |
| mtd | t-tan: oh? | 00:23 |
| jebba | t-tan: that's what i'm doing, but it's still got problems. bug 7707 | 00:23 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7707 maemo-optify-deb produces recursive symlink for plugins in derivative packages | 00:23 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:23 |
| mtd | t-tan: are there instructions somewhere? | 00:23 |
| t-tan | mtd: maemo-optify-deb | 00:23 |
| Damion2 | I can execute x86 or arm randomly now on the phone | 00:23 |
| mtd | t-tan: thanks | 00:23 |
| t-tan | sorry. i was to slow | 00:24 |
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| lucas | where can I download the source for maemo packages? | 00:25 |
| t-tan | jebba: does it only affect symlinks? | 00:25 |
| frals | apt-get source <packagename>? | 00:25 |
| mece | are you talking applications or the whole system? | 00:25 |
| lucas | specific packages | 00:26 |
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| lucas | like, osso-xterm, for example | 00:26 |
| jebba | t-tan: before it was breaking plugins. Right now it's not making /usr/bin links at all (well, in some packages). He's doing the symlinking in the .post* files, which is a bit frightening perhaps. | 00:26 |
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| t-tan | jebba: and did it also happen when you run it during the build process (after gencontrol)? I didn't have problems so far with version 0.2.1 | 00:27 |
| mak89k | wat is rootstrap and is it necessary while running applications | 00:28 |
| mak89k | ? | 00:28 |
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| jebba | t-tan: this is all maemo-optify-deb | 00:32 |
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| jebba | mak89k: rootstrap is for the software development kit | 00:32 |
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| t-tan | jebba: ok, thanks. I'm just adding an option to debhelper7 to optify during gencontrol | 00:33 |
| mak89k | i did the gui install in the forums.nokia site.. but i cannot see a rootstrap package in the /scratchboz/packages... does tht mean it is not isntalled | 00:33 |
| mak89k | scratchbox* | 00:34 |
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| timeless_mbp | help | 00:35 |
| * timeless_mbp looks for a finnish speaker | 00:36 | |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/MCL/sf/mw/accesssec/eapol/eapol_framework/eapol_common/type/aka/include/eap_type_aka_types.h#471 | 00:36 |
| timeless_mbp | * This option selects the AKA algorithm used in akaulation. | 00:36 |
| timeless_mbp | can someone please suggest what that last word is? | 00:36 |
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| jebba | timeless perhaps it's similar to antively? | 00:38 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 00:38 |
| jebba | "On Debian-based Linux systems the Maemo SDK can be installed antively to the host PC" | 00:38 |
| jebba | akaulation calculation? | 00:39 |
| timeless_mbp | that was my guess | 00:39 |
| timeless_mbp | since you picked it too, i'm happy | 00:39 |
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| juke_ | hi | 00:39 |
| jebba | mtd: sent you email | 00:40 |
| t-tan | mtd: gcc 4.4 is now in http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner#experimental_packages | 00:40 |
| mk8 | sorry guy, but the maemo sdk is scratchbox 1 or scratchbox 2? Because looking here ( http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/ ) seems to be scratchbox2 but I'm installing it now and the GUI installer put the scratchbox-core1.0.16 .... | 00:40 |
| t-tan | mtd: I haven't tried it on the device yet... | 00:40 |
| mk8 | so, which version of scratchbox I need to use? And where I can download it? | 00:41 |
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| microlith | jebba: you might know, are you aware of a maemo package for the util-linux-ng utilities? | 00:42 |
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| Vanadis | good night everyone | 00:43 |
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| Gaap | hi all | 00:45 |
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| jebba | microlith: not certain of that one. It seems a number of the main gnu tools are getting rebuilt | 00:47 |
| mtd | jebba: thanks! | 00:47 |
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| mtd | t-tan: thanks | 00:47 |
| jebba | mk8: ya, that's scratchbox2 at garage there I think. It's a bit messy. Perhaps some info here will help http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/SDK | 00:48 |
| mak89k | hello , i am new to maemo can i trust the gui installer or do i go for the manual install | 00:48 |
| mak89k | ? | 00:48 |
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| mk8 | thanks jebba | 00:49 |
| woglinde | sb2/maemo-sdk dont works with optified packages | 00:49 |
| jebba | text installer is probably best | 00:50 |
| mak89k | jebba:i am on ubuntu , i wanna install the sdk .. i tried the gui install for maemo5 but many packages did not isntall. | 00:50 |
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| mak89k | help | 00:50 |
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| mak89k | have u writtten a guide for ubuntu install? | 00:50 |
| jebba | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0.sh | 00:50 |
| jebba | then | 00:51 |
| jebba | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh | 00:51 |
| mak89k | thts it? i jsut run the files.. ? | 00:51 |
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| cityLights | hi all. pls help me , I can't ping repository.maemo.org from my N900 , yet I can from my desktop | 00:53 |
| cityLights | should /etc/resolv.conf only have 127.0.0.1 ? | 00:54 |
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| Damion2 | yes that's normal | 00:55 |
| ptl | if I start developing an application today: should I use hildon/gtk or qt? | 00:55 |
| Damion2 | it has a resolver | 00:55 |
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| cityLights | Damion2: thanks | 00:56 |
| Damion2 | ptl: don't ask me, I'd say curses ;) | 00:56 |
| cityLights | Damion2: where can I see the real dns servers? | 00:56 |
| SpeedEvil | termcap! | 00:56 |
| Damion2 | cityLights: not sure | 00:57 |
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| ptl | Damion2: curses? on a mobile? | 00:57 |
| Damion2 | ptl: yup | 00:57 |
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| lucas | * Fixes: NB#140490 (XTerminal icon missing) | 00:58 |
| lucas | what's NB? | 00:58 |
| t-tan | ptl: if you need fancy graphics you can add asciiart | 00:58 |
| Damion2 | latin I think for "note" | 00:58 |
| t-tan | ptl: and for color libcaca :) | 00:59 |
| Damion2 | nota bene | 00:59 |
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| Damion2 | please note | 00:59 |
| lucas | Damion2: it's probably a bug tracker | 00:59 |
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| lucas | Damion2: I know about nota bene ;) | 00:59 |
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| Damion2 | ptl: have you seen mplayer -vo caca ? it's great | 01:00 |
| lucas | ah, maybe nokia bugs, or something | 01:00 |
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| Damion2 | NotBaplicable ? | 01:00 |
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| t-tan | oh wait: asciiart and libcaca are not yet ported?? | 01:01 |
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| doubleukay | ahh. xchat works much better as an irc client on the n900 compared to pidgin. | 01:03 |
| Damion2 | who needs porting. I have binfmt_misc working and can execute arbitrary x86 linux binaries now :) | 01:03 |
| mak89k | jebba: maemo-sdk-install .. not able to run | 01:03 |
| simoneb_ | Damion2: in one word... scrollbars? | 01:03 |
| Damion2 | simoneb_: for? | 01:04 |
| simoneb_ | Damion2: scrollbars are really painful to use, touchscreen usually rely on other methods for scrolling | 01:04 |
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| Damion2 | ctrl-F and B work well for me, also / for search | 01:05 |
| jebba | mak89k: sh maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0.sh | 01:05 |
| Damion2 | or pgup/dn can be sent with up/dn swipes | 01:05 |
| t-tan | Damion2: how often do you need to recharge the battery to start a program? | 01:05 |
| Damion2 | t-tan: recharge? | 01:06 |
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| sinclair | hi everyone | 01:06 |
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| Damion2 | oh you assume it's slow | 01:06 |
| jophish | Howdy sinclair | 01:06 |
| t-tan | Damion2: yes | 01:06 |
| mak89k | jebba: package installation ? minimal or runtime or + dev packages ..which one | 01:06 |
| Damion2 | it's not | 01:06 |
| t-tan | Damion2: so you're using qemu? | 01:07 |
| Damion2 | yeah | 01:07 |
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| sinclair | has anyone successfully flashed the N900 with the latest firmware? i've tried linux, windows xp, vista, 7 all without any luck flashing the device | 01:07 |
| t-tan | Damion2: did you need any special patches to get it running? | 01:07 |
| Damion2 | nope | 01:07 |
| t-tan | Damion2: are you going to upload it to extras*? | 01:08 |
| jophish | sinclair, what's the problem? | 01:08 |
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| Damion2 | t-tan: probably | 01:08 |
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| Damion2 | atm I'm kludgingl doing it with symblinks to binaries and libs skattered all over the phone | 01:08 |
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| mak89k | shld i choose the minimal rootstrap option for sdk installation? | 01:10 |
| sinclair | jophish: when i run the flasher it just sits there... Suitable USB device not found, waiting | 01:10 |
| jophish | have you read the wiki page on flashing the device | 01:11 |
| jophish | perhaps you missed something out | 01:11 |
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| sinclair | jophish, yes i've read the wiki step by step for all operating systems with no luck at all | 01:11 |
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| jophish | might be worth double checking that | 01:13 |
| jophish | or perhaps there is a problem with the device | 01:14 |
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| sinclair | yeah i'm beginning to suspect the device... double checked, triple checked on 4 different operating systems with the same result... | 01:15 |
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| jophish | pressed u on the device? | 01:17 |
| sinclair | yup | 01:17 |
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| sinclair | the device wakes up with dimmed screen and the usb icon | 01:17 |
| sinclair | but then nothing happens | 01:17 |
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| jophish | could be the cable perhaps | 01:18 |
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| sinclair | i'll try a beta version of the software updater now... | 01:18 |
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| microlith | jebba: thanks for the heads up | 01:26 |
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| jophish | OK, I'm off now guys | 01:29 |
| jophish | I hope you get things worked out sinclair | 01:30 |
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| woglinde | ~seen luck | 01:31 |
| infobot | luck <n=NET@unaffiliated/bumbacl0t> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 711d 2h 8m 6s ago, saying: 'thanks'. | 01:31 |
| woglinde | args | 01:31 |
| woglinde | ~seen lcuk | 01:31 |
| infobot | lcuk <lcuk@Maemo/community/contributor/lcuk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 12h 45m 22s ago, saying: '\o/'. | 01:31 |
| mikhas | always gleeful, isn't he? | 01:32 |
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| dnaumov | I was asked to provide a "complete syslog" for my bugreport, what does that actually mean? obviosly not output of "syslog" since there is no such command | 01:33 |
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| juke_ | can you help me with py2deb ? | 01:36 |
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| Dassu | btw any comparison between energy comsamption between python and c++? | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | It depends. | 01:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's almost a meaningless question. | 01:37 |
| Dassu | :grrr | 01:38 |
| Dassu | dude like caculate pi for example | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | If you're doing compute intensive tasks that are going to take a while (minutes) to complete - then C++ is clearly the better solution | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | total execute time is a not-bad proxy for battery life. | 01:39 |
| Dassu | oke what about webpage parsing and simple qt ui? | 01:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | If something uses .1s of CPU everh 60s say - it's not an issue | 01:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | If it uses .1s every .5s - it is | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | strace and ps is your friend | 01:39 |
| Dassu | okies. | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Ideally you want something to be idle - using no CPU at all - when the user isn't interacting with it. | 01:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | If it's - for example - updating a clock and doing sums every second, that can kill your battery life | 01:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | strace and ps or htop can give you a very good insight into the likely battery effects | 01:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Run it for a couple of hours - look at the total elapsed CPU time. | 01:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - it may be irrelevant. | 01:41 |
| Jophish_n900 | alternatively; run it for a couple of hours and look at battery depletion | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | If your thingy is - for example - to ping a site over 3G - then you have to pin the CPU for quite a while to actually be noticable against the 3g drain | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | that's problematic. | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | the battery meter is shit. | 01:42 |
| juke_ | anybody can help me to build a package, i make one (masstransit) but it doesnt work | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Run to depletion is better. | 01:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | or if you've got a DMM - charge for a couple of hours, run for an hour, pull the battery, leave 1 min, measure volts | 01:43 |
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| Dassu | k thanks for the tips SpeedEvil gtg | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | wave | 01:46 |
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| dnaumov | ok what am I doing wrong, the manuals say that to type special chars in terminal, you have to press the blue arrow and then Sym | 01:47 |
| dnaumov | except that does nothing | 01:47 |
| doubleukay | (you need to press them together) | 01:47 |
| dnaumov | tried doing it via "hold blue arror and press sym" and also tried pressing them in succession | 01:47 |
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| jebba | SpeedEvil: batlevel in the etch repo works pretty well | 01:49 |
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| Damion2 | does anyone have bc compiled? | 01:52 |
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| jebba | ./b/bc/bc_1.06-20_armel.deb Damion2 in my etch repo | 01:56 |
| jebba | Damion2: uh, also in main main main repo. | 01:56 |
| Damion2 | could you put a wgetgetable url? | 01:57 |
| Jophish_n900 | is there any way to control the media player from the terminal? | 01:57 |
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| jebba | Damion2: just install it from the main repo. Dont have url to that handy. | 01:59 |
| jebba | not even extras. like the main repo ;) | 02:00 |
| Damion2 | apt-cache search bc lets me down | 02:00 |
| Shapeshifter | has anyone managed to get google calendar to sync using mfe? Yeah, I know it's not supported. Still, maybe this sounds familiar: Entered everything correctly, but at the end it says "error. either exchange server requires secure connection or account is disabled". A google search reveiled a possible problem with certificates. | 02:01 |
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| Shapeshifter | and by "anyone", I guess I mean "anyone lately" as apparently it worked for lots of folks. | 02:01 |
| Shapeshifter | btw my calendar is currently emtpy. | 02:01 |
| Jophish_n900 | Shapeshifter, works fine for me at the moment. | 02:03 |
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| crashanddie | yo bitches | 02:04 |
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| Shapeshifter | Jophish_n900: humm. | 02:05 |
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| Shapeshifter | where do I check if I have PR1.1? in "about product" there's 2.2009.51-1 | 02:06 |
| openstandards | hi there | 02:06 |
| Shapeshifter | and 2009 sounds like PR1.0 to me | 02:08 |
| Caesium | 2009.51 is PR1.1 | 02:08 |
| Caesium | 2009.42 would be 1.0 | 02:08 |
| Shapeshifter | ah | 02:08 |
| Caesium | and I thnk 48 was 1.0.1 | 02:08 |
| Shapeshifter | okay | 02:08 |
| Shapeshifter | thanks | 02:08 |
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| openstandards | i'm unable to sign into aim with the telepathy packages due to a validation check on the oscar protocol however I believe aim allows for name spaces in the screen name, can this be considered a bug? | 02:09 |
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| Shapeshifter | mh, where are certs supposed to be in this version? I see things on the bugtracker that they are in /home/user/.activesync/certs but I don't have an .activesync folder | 02:10 |
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| Shapeshifter | ah found them | 02:11 |
| Shapeshifter | .maemosec-certs | 02:11 |
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| Damion2 | native bc takes 3.9 seconds, x86 bc takes 25.8 seconds, 1Ghz x86 takes 1.24sec. echo 99999^9999 | 02:20 |
| Damion2 | x86 qemu seems to be about 6 times slower than native | 02:21 |
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| Caesium | how many times did you test | 02:22 |
| Damion2 | only about 3-4 | 02:22 |
| Damion2 | up arrow return | 02:22 |
| Caesium | running that on my local fairly-idle Sempron 140 varies from 0.4s to 1.1s - quite a range | 02:22 |
| Damion2 | it was generally the same times within .1 | 02:22 |
| Damion2 | Caesium: my work desktop is dual 3Ghz 686 of sorts, and 64bits | 02:22 |
| Damion2 | under vmware my 32bit ubuntu with scratchbox runs arm bc in 6 seconds for that | 02:23 |
| Caesium | Sempron 140 is 2.7 iirc | 02:23 |
| Caesium | when you say native bc 3.9s, you mean on N900? that's not half bad | 02:23 |
| fredrin | how to get extras-testing repository? | 02:23 |
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| Damion2 | yeah, actually it's faster than my qemu arm thing | 02:23 |
| fredrin | always fail when i try to type it in in the package manager | 02:24 |
| Damion2 | I suspect diskio is the slow thing | 02:24 |
| Damion2 | 600Mhz Arm cortex thingy8 is obviously quite good? | 02:24 |
| Caesium | guess so :) | 02:24 |
| Caesium | better than I expected :) | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Damion2: Or qemu blows | 02:24 |
| Damion2 | SpeedEvil: it could be vmware, hold on... | 02:25 |
| Damion2 | it's 0.48 on native | 02:25 |
| Damion2 | oh okay it's 0.51 repeatadly under vmware | 02:26 |
| Damion2 | yeah qemu running arm blows | 02:26 |
| Caesium | quelle surprise :) | 02:26 |
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| Caesium | what's it roughly comparable to then, say P60? :) | 02:27 |
| Damion2 | arm qemu running x86 is usable, note that loads of stuff like kernel syscalls are running natively | 02:27 |
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| kamui__ | Damion2, how usable is usable | 02:49 |
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| kamui__ | usable as in could boot dos and run full speed at the 8086 level, or usable like boot dos and win3.1 and run full speed at the 80386 level | 02:50 |
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| Damion2 | this is linux specific, xeyes was fast toppler was about aqs fast as native arm | 03:23 |
| Damion2 | dosbox, ppl claim is fast enough for old dos games | 03:23 |
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| Kamui | jeebus | 03:40 |
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| Kamui | i really need a better way to optify via relink packages | 03:40 |
| Kamui | dare i write a new optify script? | 03:40 |
| Kamui | :) | 03:41 |
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| boogeyman | where are the environment variables stored in maemo 5? do I need to create /home/user/.profile or..? | 03:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Brainstorm is such a sad joke. | 04:28 |
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| kamui__ | Der General | 04:29 |
| kamui__ | greets | 04:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hi | 04:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you do write a new script, please submit your improvements to maemo-developers. | 04:30 |
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| kamui__ | I will certainly make it public | 04:30 |
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| kamui__ | but its likely to be an after the fact script | 04:30 |
| kamui__ | eg, optify packagename | 04:30 |
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| kamui__ | maybe even with a gui frontend if I get around to caring | 04:31 |
| kamui__ | but I'm tired of constantly being on the verge of a reflash :) | 04:31 |
| crashanddie | kamui__: that already exists | 04:31 |
| kamui__ | packagescan? | 04:31 |
| crashanddie | aye | 04:31 |
| kamui__ | naah, that takes at least 10 minutes to become useable | 04:31 |
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| kamui__ | I want something where I can run it from the cmd line, as I KNOW I just installed an app and its eating x megs of root | 04:32 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: it's not for nothing that Brainstorm has the same initials as bullshit | 04:32 |
| kamui__ | btw, who are the garage admins | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, I guess the idea was going to be that we were actually going to be getting a time investment from Maemo Devices managers. | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | kamui__, X-Fade's in charge. | 04:33 |
| kamui__ | I wanted to say thank you for approving my blender project | 04:33 |
| kamui__ | Im publishing my current build tonight | 04:33 |
| crashanddie | blender on the N900? | 04:33 |
| kamui__ | a ton of email requests keep pouring in | 04:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, unfortunately the tool seems to be the worst parts of Bugzilla and the lists all rolled up into one awful package | 04:33 |
| kamui__ | even though its still a bit slow | 04:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | with no management investment. | 04:33 |
| LB1938 | ftw! | 04:33 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: who could blame management | 04:33 |
| kamui__ | crashanddie, yep, my first day with the N900 I ported b lender 2.5 alpha | 04:33 |
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| villager | Damion2: in the very old days of win16-only it didn't really need to, no... but then win32 came along with that newfangled virtual memory and separate address spaces | 05:49 |
| villager | and kernel handles | 05:49 |
| villager | and other stuff | 05:50 |
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| villager | clone was optional back then, probably only used if one process spawned another | 05:51 |
| Damion2 | yeah I remember a several year period where it all got a bit less compatible | 05:51 |
| * Damion2 has been a wine user since the early or mid 90s | 05:51 | |
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| Damion2 | villager: if it avoided fork() old wine could run notepad.exe which might be seen as interesting on an arm linux phone :) | 05:52 |
| villager | if qemu supports 16-bit segmentation on arm, I guess | 05:53 |
| villager | I wouldn't consider notepad interesting though | 05:54 |
| villager | Damion2: perhaps you'll have to join the qemu devs to make it work... I considered it, but found other interesting stuff to do with the phone instead | 05:54 |
| Matthew- | well if someone is interested in running bloomberg, you can find it there: | 05:55 |
| Matthew- | http://www.inerd.me/ | 05:55 |
| Damion2 | villager: yeah might have to join wine and qemu ML | 05:56 |
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| Damion2 | your username rings a bell | 05:56 |
| Damion2 | distant bell, probably from comp.blah...wine | 05:57 |
| villager | could also be from debian | 05:57 |
| Damion2 | no | 05:58 |
| Damion2 | I always ignored debian. Too full of ranters with tin foil hats hugging trees and being vegetarian | 05:59 |
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| villager | I must have missed that part of it, but then I don't usually pay attention to all the chitchat in debian either | 06:00 |
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| kamui__ | oh yea!~ | 06:04 |
| kamui__ | freegin awesome! | 06:04 |
| kamui__ | bootlooping :) | 06:04 |
| kamui__ | well, I've been meaning to redo the phone anyway | 06:04 |
| kamui__ | sheeit | 06:04 |
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| DantonicN900 | cpu usage is high when playing ogg vorbis is that normal | 06:09 |
| DantonicN900 | n900 gets warm and battery drains | 06:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kamui__: which point does it loop? (5 dots. Or even while rendering normal desktop). Any idea what caused it? | 06:18 |
| kamui__ | lol | 06:20 |
| kamui__ | yes | 06:20 |
| kamui__ | and no | 06:20 |
| kamui__ | no and yes | 06:20 |
| kamui__ | it loops at the nokia screen before any dots iirc | 06:20 |
| kamui__ | and it was caused by a poorly relinked /usr/share | 06:20 |
| kamui__ | I knew that was risky business with pyoptifty | 06:20 |
| kamui__ | but I figured if this didn't work I was reformatting and reflashing anyway | 06:20 |
| villager | DantonicN900: they probably haven't optimized the ogg decoder for arm, so uses a bit more cpu than needed? | 06:21 |
| ShadowJK | ffmpeg's vorbis decoder is on par with nokia's mp3 decoder iirc | 06:23 |
| ShadowJK | http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/ | 06:23 |
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| greenfly | where are the contacts stored on the n900 file system? | 06:27 |
| Damion2 | I don't listen to much, so mp3 -> wav would work and I assume/hope is quite efficient | 06:27 |
| Matthew- | guys, are emails/contacts/sms in rootfs? | 06:27 |
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| ShadowJK | i think it's in home | 06:28 |
| Damion2 | more likely /home/user/.something or /home/user/MyDocs/.something | 06:28 |
| Damion2 | but I don't know | 06:28 |
| greenfly | I was hoping someone in here knew for sure | 06:29 |
| greenfly | I guessed /home/user as well, but I'm starting to have my doubts | 06:29 |
| Damion2 | using / is unlikely, and was an old annoyance on S60 with small C: | 06:29 |
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| Matthew- | kk thx | 06:29 |
| Damion2 | gah it's 04:30am :( | 06:29 |
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| kamui__ | anyone repartitioned the N900 | 06:31 |
| kamui__ | Im curious if they made their opt space bigger | 06:31 |
| pupnik | regulatory purgatory | 06:31 |
| kamui__ | and if it affected the 1.1 upgrade | 06:31 |
| kamui__ | hi pupnik! | 06:31 |
| kamui__ | aswesome news | 06:31 |
| kamui__ | my N900 is bootlooping | 06:31 |
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| pupnik | morning | 06:32 |
| greenfly | fwiw, I'm very close to getting a functioning encrypted fs set up so all personal settings are on the encrypted volume | 06:32 |
| greenfly | but it appears like some settings (like contacts and possibly the location of widgets on the desktop) might not be stored under /home/user | 06:32 |
| greenfly | so if anyone happens to have any insight on those things in particular, it would save me a lot of trouble | 06:33 |
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| greenfly | does the user truly use the /var/lib/gconf/ databases? | 06:33 |
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| kamui__ | wow | 06:47 |
| kamui__ | I reflashed my phone | 06:47 |
| kamui__ | took under 1 minute | 06:47 |
| kamui__ | amazing | 06:47 |
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| villager | ShadowJK: and are they using the ffmpeg ogg decoder yet? doesn't seem to, looks like still using libogg | 06:57 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 06:58 |
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| greenfly | nevermind, I figured it out. Looks like contacts are in /home/user but desktop widget locations and some other settings were in fact in /var/lib/gconf | 07:06 |
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| pupnik | i'd like the charging meter to show the rate | 07:09 |
| ShadowJK | What charging meter.. | 07:10 |
| pupnik | the battery icon | 07:10 |
| pupnik | in my sleep i ripped out the charger again, now it's a very dodgy connection :( | 07:11 |
| kamui__ | roh nopes | 07:11 |
| pupnik | http://barebox.org/documentation/barebox-2009.12.0/dev_omap_arch.html Texas Instrument's OMAP Platforms in barebox // a bootloader perhaps useful to maemo/mer? | 07:13 |
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| kamui__ | im gonna start using madde and mad-developer | 07:35 |
| kamui__ | looks like I've been beating rocks together with the sandbox | 07:35 |
| kamui__ | all this time | 07:35 |
| pupnik | if using madde, doesnt that introduce incompatibilities with the maemo builder? | 07:35 |
| pupnik | since you're in a crosscompiling environment, not the 'native' sdk.. | 07:36 |
| kamui__ | don't know pupnik | 07:36 |
| kamui__ | I haven't actually started yet | 07:36 |
| kamui__ | I just read a little about it | 07:36 |
| kamui__ | and it looks like it has great dev tools | 07:36 |
| kamui__ | like remote deployment and execution | 07:36 |
| kamui__ | that dont' require ridiculous setup on the handheld | 07:36 |
| pupnik | what is the url you're working from? | 07:37 |
| kamui__ | the wiki article | 07:37 |
| kamui__ | if htats what you're asking | 07:37 |
| pupnik | http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE k | 07:37 |
| kamui__ | thats is | 07:38 |
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| pupnik | http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/small-but-important-update-in-pr11.html << cool how community contributions got included in pr1.1 | 07:45 |
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| atrevida | olaaaaa | 07:48 |
| atrevida | alguie de españaaaaaaaaaa | 07:48 |
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| crashanddie | ~ping | 08:02 |
| infobot | ~pong | 08:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | duh, apt, er infobot is really scizoid | 08:06 |
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| pupnik | these n900 knockoffs from china are funny/sad | 08:18 |
| sheepbat | noklas? | 08:21 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: n900 itself is an iPhone knockoff | 08:28 |
| * RST38h hides promptly | 08:28 | |
| crashanddie | RST38h: you deserve to be kicked | 08:30 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 08:30 | |
| crashanddie | RST38h: ph34r | 08:30 |
| * crashanddie stomps RST38h | 08:30 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 08:30 | |
| RST38h | Find an iPhone somewhere, lay it over n900, compare | 08:31 |
| ruskie | lol | 08:31 |
| ruskie | best joke ever... not | 08:31 |
| * RST38h has been surprised himself | 08:31 | |
| pupnik | i see javis has upped libsdl-haa | 08:32 |
| MiXu- | Any ideas which one consumes more battery: GPRS or 3G packet data? | 08:34 |
| RST38h | 3G | 08:35 |
| MiXu- | The only data transfers are generated by IM software | 08:35 |
| MiXu- | I know 3G consumes more in idle. But is that the case also with active packet data? | 08:35 |
| RST38h | yes. | 08:36 |
| MiXu- | ok | 08:36 |
| MiXu- | Time to install the 2G/3G switcher widget then. | 08:37 |
| MiXu- | Something that would switch modes on demand would be nice. | 08:38 |
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| ruskie | hmm fun... openvpn pkg seems to just randomly stop being installable due to lack of liblzo2-2 | 08:46 |
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| pupnik | do you get a lot of false thumbnails in media player and photo viewer? it is just embarassing... | 08:47 |
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| kamui__ | lol pupnik | 08:56 |
| kamui__ | I do | 08:56 |
| kamui__ | in some of my porn ;) | 08:56 |
| kamui__ | the good stuff too | 08:57 |
| kamui__ | It only took me about an hour | 08:57 |
| kamui__ | but I managed to almost completely do a fresh installation | 08:57 |
| kamui__ | and get everything back | 08:57 |
| kamui__ | I don't look forward to reoptifying all my reinstalled crap | 08:57 |
| kamui__ | fuckin smexy | 09:00 |
| kamui__ | someone ported ethertool | 09:00 |
| kamui__ | err, wireshark | 09:00 |
| kamui__ | :) | 09:00 |
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| mece | 'ello | 09:02 |
| mece | commercial meets open source: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43739&page=3 | 09:03 |
| mece | oh my | 09:03 |
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| ruskie | mece, which response exactly? | 09:08 |
| ruskie | since page3 is meaningless to me as I have more than the default posts/page setup | 09:08 |
| mece | ruskie, sorry, I was just annoyed with this one: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=517096&postcount=26 | 09:09 |
| mece | I guess he didn't realize that maemo.org is the community and not nokia | 09:09 |
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| crashanddie | mece: It's the only game publisher we have who's actively involved in the community | 09:16 |
| crashanddie | mece: we might want to be a little less "racist" towards him | 09:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | mece: crashanddie is right | 09:16 |
| timeless_mbp | if he's a big company, or one of the bigger companies we have | 09:17 |
| mece | yep, I know. That's why I haven't answered the post | 09:17 |
| timeless_mbp | and he's getting bad/mixed messages | 09:17 |
| timeless_mbp | then we need to do something about it | 09:17 |
| timeless_mbp | garage is indeed a disaster | 09:17 |
| crashanddie | Commercial isn't necessarily bad, and if any open source zealot is going to start being difficult about it, you can be sure as hell that I'm going to storm in pretty hard | 09:17 |
| mece | well he doesn't need garage. just the account. | 09:17 |
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| mece | also, since the app has built in payment thingamagig, he could just put it in ovi store free | 09:18 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: the instructions need to make that clear | 09:18 |
| MiXu- | In my opinion "commercial" is what needs to happen with Maemo asap... | 09:18 |
| * timeless_mbp isn't sure we need more opinions | 09:18 | |
| * timeless_mbp thinks we need more people fixing our message | 09:18 | |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: the size of the company is irrelevant: it just takes one bad experience to kill Maemo's reputation -- especially if he's the first one | 09:18 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 09:18 | |
| MiXu- | Because if it doesn't, Maemo will remain as the platform for nerds, and at some point it'll mean the end of it. | 09:18 |
| timeless_mbp | you're not currently reading mozilla.org's thread about bugzilla | 09:19 |
| MiXu- | Like Amiga. =) | 09:19 |
| crashanddie | I've spent *months* campaigning Maemo inside my company, so that it would be taken as a serious platform | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.planning/browse_thread/thread/7d3a647586bab993/c18fa2c47475c804?q=%22Are+superfluous+comments+really+the+reason+bugs+go+unattended%3F%22#c18fa2c47475c804 | 09:19 |
| crashanddie | The mixed reception of the N900 hasn't been the best of arguments to be honest | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm currently reading this thread | 09:19 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: long time since I saw Asa's name somewhere | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp | he kinda disappeared from my radar too | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp | but his comments in this thread made me reply "thank you" | 09:22 |
| timeless_mbp | which i rarely do | 09:22 |
| MiXu- | N900 doesn't represent the "final maemo" but if Nokia doesn't do things right at this point, it won't matter. It's gonna be really hard for Harmattan to save Maemo if Fremantle gets a bad reputation. | 09:22 |
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| crashanddie | interesting to see that we're seeing the same issue | 09:23 |
| crashanddie | However, it's not the first time I heard about it | 09:23 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, which we/issue? | 09:23 |
| timeless_mbp | is we = crashanddie + MiXu- ? | 09:23 |
| crashanddie | no | 09:23 |
| crashanddie | we = maemo community + bugzilla | 09:24 |
| timeless_mbp | ok, just checking :) | 09:24 |
| timeless_mbp | it's not quite the same issue, but it's pretty close | 09:24 |
| crashanddie | Ubuntu had exactly the effect, same thing for backtrack as well, and thinking of it, quite a lot of projects | 09:24 |
| timeless_mbp | note that mozilla.org has ~5 ways to send 'feedback' | 09:24 |
| crashanddie | I'll have to run some numbers tonight | 09:24 |
| timeless_mbp | bugzilla, hendrix, forums, newsgroups, mozillazine, support, 'ask a friend to do it' | 09:24 |
| crashanddie | I mean, as popularity rises the signal-to-noise ratio always degrades, and this is true for nearly everything on the planet | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | actually we also have reddit/digg/slashdot | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | and yes, we definitely have engineers who read those expecting to convert some whines into bug reports | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | bz and jesse certainly do for /. | 09:25 |
| mece | are we talking about the bugzilla is not a forum issue now? | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | but the thread in mozilla.org comes w/ people who assume that infinite growth should still justify a guaranteed response to any bug filing | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: not precisely | 09:26 |
| crashanddie | mece: the "isn't a forum" issue is part of it, as far as I can tell | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | > it just takes one bad experience to kill <foo>'s reputation -- especially if he's the first one | 09:27 |
| timeless_mbp | ^ that's the key | 09:27 |
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| mece | yes. we need to adress his issues in that thread | 09:27 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: maybe you know this: is it possible to post a single article from a blog to maemo? | 09:29 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: or do you need half a subscription and approval and shite? | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 09:29 |
| crashanddie | err, the maemo front page | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | so, if your blog is aggregated, or if you have a project in garage | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | you used to be able to land on some of the magic points | 09:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | i think these days mwwn or whatever is your easiest 'no subscriptions required' way to end up somewhere frontish | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | personally, i've generally ignored front pages | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | they're typically useless | 09:30 |
| crashanddie | yeah, but I'm karma whoring | 09:31 |
| timeless_mbp | at some point in the past year someone added random bug bits to the mozilla.org front page | 09:31 |
| timeless_mbp | this surprised me | 09:31 |
| timeless_mbp | but it isn't useful :) | 09:31 |
| crashanddie | karma whoring? | 09:31 |
| crashanddie | or buzilla bits? | 09:31 |
| timeless_mbp | my thing | 09:31 |
| mece | hahaha | 09:31 |
| mece | karma whoring is quite useful | 09:32 |
| crashanddie | well, especially with the upcoming elections | 09:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd have said 'that' or 'that's' or maybe included some sarcastic bit if i were responding to you :) | 09:32 |
| crashanddie | but hey, karma is frozen anyway | 09:33 |
| ruskie | doesn't extras have a non-free component where he could put just the pkg? | 09:33 |
| crashanddie | I just want to prove that a relatively quiet member has the ability to get massive amounts of karma in very little time | 09:33 |
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| crashanddie | ruskie: the problem is the .deb | 09:33 |
| crashanddie | ruskie: you can't just submit a .deb and have it be hosted | 09:33 |
| ruskie | erm | 09:34 |
| ruskie | I thought that was the point? | 09:34 |
| ruskie | to host the deb of non-free stuff that lacks sources | 09:34 |
| mece | yes, well you still have to package properly. | 09:34 |
| mece | and he doesn't want to do that | 09:34 |
| ruskie | ow | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | ruskie: it does | 09:34 |
| mece | which is what annoyed me in the first place. | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp | but you need to find the right magic path for it | 09:35 |
| timeless_mbp | and the advertising for that magic path is much worse than anything else | 09:35 |
| ruskie | and yeah even though I'm a Free Software zealot I see nothing wrong with commercial Free Software | 09:35 |
| timeless_mbp | partially because maemo.org is an open source community | 09:35 |
| crashanddie | my point is: it's not like you just go to maemo.org and click on "Upload my app" and click submit | 09:35 |
| timeless_mbp | and partially because it's a nokia derived community | 09:35 |
| timeless_mbp | nokia is terrible about message/fast pathing | 09:35 |
| crashanddie | I'm still pretty sure that nearly 99% of this community would answer "because it's more secure, everyone can look at the source code" at a poll asking: "Why is Open Source important to you" | 09:36 |
| timeless_mbp | heh | 09:37 |
| pupnik | +1 | 09:37 |
| mece | ok is there anything wrong with uploading to ovi as free and then getting the money his own way? | 09:37 |
| timeless_mbp | my answer is "because it's my chance to get someone else to pay for my pizza + beer[alternative]" | 09:37 |
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| mece | I'm trying to write an answer there.. | 09:38 |
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| pupnik | http://sio2interactive.com/SIO2_iPad_and_iPhone_3D_Game_Engine_Technology.html nice to see these guys supporting N900 | 09:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | mece: oh, lemme first say "that's appreciated' | 09:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | but the answer should be in two pieces | 09:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | 1. the anser | 09:39 |
| timeless_mbp | s/ser/swer/ | 09:39 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: 1. the answer | 09:39 |
| kamui__ | seriously | 09:39 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. at the end a note indicating that <group> will work to improve the discoverability of 1 | 09:39 |
| kamui__ | am I the only douche who isn't happy using the browser for every last browser capable thing? | 09:39 |
| timeless_mbp | kamui__: how long have you had your n900? | 09:39 |
| kamui__ | 1 month almost on the dot | 09:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and did you use the tutorial and watch the maemo5 ui team video tutorials? | 09:40 |
| mece | Is there a howto on uploading to non.free somewhere? | 09:40 |
| kamui__ | that would be a negatory | 09:40 |
| kamui__ | i didn't even know about them | 09:40 |
| mece | non-free even | 09:40 |
| timeless_mbp | kamui__: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maemo5UITeam?blend=2&ob=1&rclk=cti | 09:41 |
| ruskie | mece, http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#.22non-free.22_packages ? | 09:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | kamui__: did you at least watch the getting started thing that was on your desktop? | 09:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | (it's in more... too) | 09:42 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: hrm, is this guy expecting a form based ui? | 09:42 |
| timeless_mbp | if he wanted to work w/ ovi, i bet he is | 09:42 |
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| ruskie | timeless_mbp, possibly he either wants a nice GUI app for uploading or a web form to upload | 09:42 |
| mece | I guess. | 09:43 |
| ruskie | or even possibly a windows app | 09:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | given that we have a web ui for uploading sources to extras | 09:43 |
| timeless_mbp | it's not at all unreasonable to ask for a web ui for uploading binaries | 09:43 |
| mece | I think he should go with ovi | 09:43 |
| ruskie | agreed | 09:43 |
| timeless_mbp | so i think your reply should point to the dput thing with a note that you'll ask someone about a web ui for binaries | 09:44 |
| timeless_mbp | but you also need to explain that maemo.org is a community and that garage is an incubator | 09:44 |
| timeless_mbp | (you get to do a lot of explaining, and believe me, i really do appreciate that you're doing it) | 09:44 |
| ruskie | where the f... did liblzo2-2 disapear to... | 09:44 |
| ruskie | can't install openvpn because it's missing :( | 09:44 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 09:45 | |
| * timeless_mbp kicks the calendar ui designer in absentia | 09:45 | |
| timeless_mbp | (since they're no longer working on maemo) | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | the idea of posting 1000 alerts modally | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | such that dismissing one just gives you the next one | 09:45 |
| timeless_mbp | ... idiots ... | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | you'd think they'd at least be vaguely aware of how ms outlook does meeting reminders | 09:46 |
| mece | butis there a forum for ovi developers somewhere? | 09:46 |
| mece | s/butis/is | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | forum.nokia.com ? :) | 09:46 |
| mece | ok. | 09:46 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry, that's me being <something> | 09:46 |
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| timeless_mbp | but it's the best answer short of a better one, just be sure to indicate that as a maemo.org community member, you don't really know but hope that someone there would know better | 09:47 |
| timeless_mbp | given that they were using ms office for their entire stint working on maemo5 ... | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | heh, this is a nice license term in TI MBX drivers | 09:48 |
| mece | oh well I posted. I hope he goes with ovi. Ovi is supposed to be the place for apps like this. | 09:48 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: have you read my 'badwords' files? :) | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: how can i find your post? | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | please don't make me actually _use_ this thing :) | 09:49 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: is the term confidential, or will you share? :) | 09:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | kamui__: sorry, have you started watching those? | 09:50 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=517330&postcount=28 | 09:50 |
| Stskeeps | paraphrased: it's not OK to reverse engineer UNLESS it is needed to help interoperability with a independently developed computer program AND you notify TI what info you need AND TI informs IMG AND IMG doesn't enable you in due time | 09:50 |
| ruskie | hmm it is OK to clean room reverse engineer in the EU iirc | 09:51 |
| Stskeeps | under similar rules i think | 09:51 |
| mece | I'm a little scared that someone will jump in there and say something offensive to the game developer person | 09:51 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: doesn't sound too unreasonable | 09:51 |
| timeless_mbp | who sets 'due time'? | 09:51 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: 'reasonable period' | 09:51 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: it's talk, isn't that a good bet? | 09:51 |
| mece | yep it is. | 09:52 |
| Stskeeps | mece: that's also the part of community growing up .. at least we've tried to build things on respect :P | 09:52 |
| Corsac | ruskie: clean-room reverse engineer doesn't exist un EU afaik | 09:52 |
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| Corsac | ruskie: in france people are allowed to “observe and analyse” a program behavior | 09:53 |
| mece | yes well, this guy gets immidiate respect for being a developer, but if he starts _demanding_ stuff from the community, shit/fan interfacing could be imminent.. | 09:53 |
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| Corsac | and is authorised to reverse engineer some parts if there's no available documentation and you keep it for yourself, don't cook a concurrent program and do it for interoperability | 09:54 |
| Corsac | I could get the law articles, later | 09:54 |
| mece | I think developers have been met with respect in most threads, but if you start acting like a douche, you're going to get flamed. | 09:54 |
| ruskie | Corsac, http://www.advogato.org/article/302.html | 09:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: germany same rules | 09:55 |
| ruskie | Corsac, I'm guessing it streches a bit | 09:55 |
| mece | oh SI02 is a free open source game engine :) | 09:55 |
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| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: hey, i'm looking for someone who can guess how a program 'converts' | 09:55 |
| timeless_mbp | Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:27:59 -0500 | 09:55 |
| timeless_mbp | into | 09:55 |
| timeless_mbp | "-9/01/37 07:59" | 09:55 |
| ruskie | Corsac, so yes clean-room reverse engineering is possible in the EU | 09:55 |
| mece | I one I could make some nice open source games with his engine :) | 09:55 |
| timeless_mbp | suggestions? | 09:55 |
| ruskie | infact it's the only way you can do it | 09:56 |
| mece | err. I type the kind of sense that is not... | 09:56 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: -9? | 09:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | yes | 09:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: a few more points to form a graph would help | 09:58 |
| mece | hmm uploading to non-free seem rather simple actually. | 09:58 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: yeah yeah | 09:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=544359 if you're curious | 09:59 |
| povbot | Bug 544359: was not found. | 09:59 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't really know how many points there are | 09:59 |
| timeless_mbp | dumb bot | 09:59 |
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| timeless_mbp | 01/-10/-28163 09:59 PM | 10:01 |
| timeless_mbp | is my favorite date :) | 10:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice | 10:02 |
| ruskie | mece, iirc most of the nintendo emulators(all?) are in non-free sadly | 10:02 |
| * DocScrutinizer suspects some weird bitshuffling | 10:02 | |
| ruskie | there's a few other bits but I think that's the main thing that's there | 10:02 |
| crashanddie | timeless_mbp: it parses the Date field wrongly, that seems surprising as it's quite an easy feature to spot, so it's probably a 16 vs 32 vs 64bit conversion somewhere | 10:03 |
| timeless_mbp | crashanddie: it's getting it wrong on all platforms | 10:03 |
| crashanddie | my point exactly | 10:03 |
| * timeless_mbp wishes someone would bisect that bug | 10:04 | |
| crashanddie | if it were doing a wrong cast at least one platform would have it right | 10:04 |
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| mece | ruskie, ah, yes.. Fring is non-free I see. | 10:05 |
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| ruskie | I tend to be more aware of non-free stuff since I try to avoid it | 10:09 |
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| fragment | hmm, I get the VisibilityFullyObscured -event but never the VisibilityUnobscured -event.. I have a simple X11 window with GLES2 content. any ideas what I'm doing wrong here? | 10:22 |
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| jacekowski | ruskie: but are you talking about non-free as in terms of freedom? | 10:26 |
| ruskie | jacekowski, yes | 10:26 |
| ruskie | not as in terms of price | 10:26 |
| jacekowski | ehhh | 10:26 |
| jacekowski | nintendo emulators are free as in freedom | 10:26 |
| ruskie | no | 10:26 |
| ruskie | ines and such aren't | 10:26 |
| jacekowski | but bios which is packed with them isn't | 10:26 |
| ruskie | they are free as in price | 10:26 |
| ruskie | I'm talking maemo extras pkgs here | 10:27 |
| ruskie | not generaly available emulators | 10:27 |
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| jacekowski | btw. is there any way to get to N900 over usb cable | 10:28 |
| jacekowski | as in ssh to it | 10:28 |
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| ruskie | yup | 10:29 |
| jacekowski | can you name it | 10:29 |
| ruskie | enable usbnet on both ends(I think on N900 it's by default when using nokia pc suite mode) | 10:29 |
| ruskie | on your host depends on what system you have | 10:29 |
| jacekowski | i don't use linux on desktop | 10:30 |
| ruskie | what do you use? | 10:30 |
| ruskie | there are windows drivers as well iirc | 10:30 |
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| ruskie | basically you need usb network support | 10:30 |
| ruskie | and I think cdc_ether I think | 10:30 |
| ruskie | you didn't really specify what you use so can't really help further | 10:31 |
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| libben | i dont have the phone right here, but if i wanna write a script that launches my ssh username@domain. it's plain simple bash skript as in debian? or is there any other paramters that i have to consider? | 10:36 |
| ruskie | plain simple ;) | 10:36 |
| libben | nice | 10:37 |
| * pupnik hopes lcuk is coming back to #irc sometime | 10:39 | |
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| pupnik | how is this html5 video not supporting free formats? | 10:47 |
| pupnik | it can't be freakin called html? if it's a closed google app | 10:47 |
| ceh900 | hehe .. well done or? | 10:48 |
| thresh | free formats as motion jpeg? | 10:48 |
| thresh | or wut | 10:48 |
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| Shrik3 | the spec doesn't specify the video format, it's up to the browsers to do that | 10:49 |
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| Shrik3 | and mozilla is throwing a hissy-fit about h.264 and refuse to support it | 10:49 |
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| ceh900 | arrgs .. connecting over xvnc to xchat on the n900 opended the virtual keybaord .. fail | 10:49 |
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| Corsac | ruskie: http://legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000006278920 | 10:49 |
| cehteh | pff :P | 10:50 |
| Corsac | (french indeed) | 10:50 |
| Corsac | ruskie: I don't see anything about “clean room” there, nor in the blog post, tbh | 10:50 |
| Corsac | ruskie: he only says “we did it for samba-tng” | 10:50 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:50 |
| X-Fade | Morning Jaffa. | 10:51 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I now see some warnings in the AM log about catorise desktop files. | 10:52 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Already known? | 10:52 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: "Unknown desktop file"? | 10:52 |
| Corsac | ruskie: and anglo-saxon law is quite different from latin law, as I understand it (but IANAL) | 10:52 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yep. | 10:52 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: It's just a warning that it's going to put something in "Other" as no package seems to own the .desktop file. If there *is* a package which owns that .desktop, there is a bug | 10:53 |
| pupnik | "Initially, the HTML5 draft explicitly recommended Ogg Theora and Ogg Vorbis (as being patent-unencumbered, free of charge to implement, open source in the public domain - you can't make it more free than that). Due to opposition from Nokia and Apple, these were removed. Current HTML5 draft doesn't define a codec nor a container format, but you can define several streams if one doesn't work." | 10:53 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Better keep the log clean? | 10:53 |
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| koala_man | why would Nokia and Apple oppose those codecs? hard to coax onto mobile platforms? hard to drm? | 10:54 |
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| X-Fade | koala_man: You open yourself up for patent lawsuits. | 10:54 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Maybe. Raise a bug - ideally, I think, it would log less when run from within HAM, but still log as now when running in X Terminal | 10:54 |
| Jaffa | koala_man: Fears about submarine patents is the official reason | 10:55 |
| X-Fade | koala_man: It is easier to just pay a fee and be sure. | 10:55 |
| koala_man | ah | 10:55 |
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| koala_man | weren't patents once about supporting innovation? :/ | 10:55 |
| X-Fade | US patent system is crazy, everybody is afraid of lawsuits. | 10:55 |
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| hrw | morning | 10:58 |
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| RST38h | moorning | 10:58 |
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| RST38h | koala: Patents are about lawyer salaries nowadays | 10:59 |
| ruskie | Corsac, it's probably known differently... or described differently... anyway moot point imho... if you can run it you can analyze it and EULAS are unenforcable in most jurisdictions anyway | 10:59 |
| pupnik | http://www.gadgetvenue.com/webgl-demo-nokia-n900-12031537/ WebGL demo running on N900 | 10:59 |
| ruskie | Corsac, but I see nothing wrong with first trying to get the company to release it... and if that fails offer to do it by yourself if they want to help and after that just do it | 11:00 |
| Corsac | ruskie: yes but at least in france you can analyse/observe all you want (but for example disassembling seems to be more than just observe/analyse). You can disassemble/RE *for interoperability reasons* (not for other ones, then) but you can't give information to third party and you can't develop a competitor program (which is weird since it's kind-of the point of interoperability, in a way) | 11:02 |
| Corsac | ruskie: the thing is, there was no judgement on that topic yet in France, so it's kind-of hard to say what the judges will decide in front of that | 11:02 |
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| Corsac | (the law isn't that old either) | 11:02 |
| Corsac | and CS evolve way faster than law | 11:03 |
| Corsac | which needs time to settle down, afaiui | 11:03 |
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| pupnik | RE: HTML5 video "Ideally, all browsers (including free ones) will be able to decode any format (including those under license) provided a codec for it (either a system one or an internal one) is installed." | 11:18 |
| tybollt | pupnik: did you read the rant by firefox authoers? | 11:18 |
| tybollt | they are explicitly avoiding HTML5/embeded video fnctionality that is !native. | 11:19 |
| pupnik | i understand them trying to push ogg/theora | 11:19 |
| tybollt | that is firefox will not let you use your own (system) codec to play HTML5/embeded video | 11:19 |
| tybollt | but will _only ever allow ogg/theora or other shitz that is free_ | 11:20 |
| pupnik | right, they want to use the strength of firefox to promote the open codecs to the providers | 11:20 |
| tybollt | which is FAIL on FAIL :) | 11:20 |
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| pupnik | i think some convergence of video formats would be helpful. so the goal is good imo | 11:21 |
| ruskie | I'm sure an addon will hook into it sometime | 11:21 |
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| pupnik | "No need to panic, you'll still be able to watch cats do zany things even if you're stuck in IE 7. " | 11:23 |
| dazo | In a short perspective, avoiding commercial / proprietary codecs might be a a failure .... but in a long perspective, this is a good strategy | 11:23 |
| dazo | *nobody* benefits from proprietary codecs which is full of patents and IP stuff | 11:23 |
| dazo | (well, excepts the companies earning money on them, of course) | 11:23 |
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| dazo | From a users perspective, it's annoying if the website providing videos only provide "closed" codecs .... but when those websites understand that the point of using free/open codecs, this is no longer a problem | 11:23 |
| * RST38h yawns | 11:24 | |
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| pupnik | and apple and chrome will not support the open codecs it seems | 11:24 |
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| dazo | apple has never been about promoting open standards .... even though they try to give that impression with the CUPS involvement ... but they're basically evil in the regards of being open | 11:25 |
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| dazo | Chrome will hopefully change their attitude ... Google is more interested in fairplay, even though they are getting a bit too dominant in a lot of things as well | 11:26 |
| pupnik | maybe this will still get solved satisfactorily when W3C ratifies the standard | 11:27 |
| dazo | yeah, you might be right there ... but it's kind of a bad circle waiting for a standard to be ratified too .... standards become standards because they have a use case .... and they are tweaked on the way to standardisation. To then "sit on the fence" waiting for others to agree on the standard before beginning to implement it, is just slowing down the whole process | 11:29 |
| pupnik | good point | 11:29 |
| dazo | Just look at the ISO-OOXML vs the currently implemented non-ISO-OOXML in MS Office .... Not even MS themselves seem to be in a hurry implementing their own standard | 11:30 |
| dazo | well, they have their own standard .... but not implementing the ISO version they were fighting for | 11:30 |
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| hrw | dazo: iso-ooxml was not made for being implemented. it was for making noise so vendors would not move to odf | 11:36 |
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| Myrtti | LaTeX rules them all | 11:36 |
| dazo | hrw: yeah, that's the reality :) I completely agree with you here | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=517434&postcount=416 <- some news on the MBX/N8x0 GLES 1.1 drivers | 11:37 |
| woglinde | stskeep oh cool | 11:37 |
| woglinde | lets see | 11:37 |
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| hrw | Stskeeps: which kernel is required for it? | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: diablo kernel works fine | 11:38 |
| pupnik | nice | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | and you need to set CONFIG_FB_OMAP_CONSISTENT_DMA_SIZE=8 | 11:39 |
| Corsac | that's nice | 11:39 |
| woglinde | stskeep in kernel-config? | 11:40 |
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| jaem | evening, folks :) | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | woglinde: yeah | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | it doesn't have space for flip buffers otherwise | 11:40 |
| woglinde | so kernel rebuild is needed anyway | 11:40 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 11:40 |
| woglinde | or will you make all available via the repos? | 11:41 |
| Corsac | well, I'm sure Stskeeps or jebba will be delighted to build one for everybody :p | 11:41 |
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| jaem | woglinde, it was you working on qtnx, right? | 11:41 |
| X-Fade | We can probably put it in the community ssu repo if it works fine ;) | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: depending on license :P | 11:41 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Well kernel at least. | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, kernel and module should work | 11:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | 451 * It does generate unpredictive pseudorandom test data. Note this is just for testing. | 11:48 |
| timeless_mbp | what does 'unpredictive' mean? | 11:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | zerojay: help? :) | 11:48 |
| ruskie | not predictable? as in you can't figure out what the next piece of data that comes out of it will be? | 11:49 |
| jaem | ruskie, but that contradicts the pseudo- prefix | 11:49 |
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| jaem | in theory, at least, if not in intent | 11:49 |
| woglinde | jaem yes | 11:50 |
| woglinde | jaem but I dont have time at the moment for it | 11:50 |
| jaem | woglinde, have you done any new builds since I last talked to you? I never got a chance to poke at the code, but the issue is annoying | 11:51 |
| jaem | ...I have an OLPC and a loaner laptop to use NX on, but it would still be nice on the N900 :P | 11:51 |
| pupnik | what issues do you have with qtnx, jaem ? | 11:52 |
| jaem | pupnik, I'm not entirely certain if it's qtnx itself or not, but the command line passed to nxssh appears to be truncated | 11:52 |
| jaem | either that or it's just something more subtle and I misread it | 11:52 |
| jaem | but as far as I could tell, it truncated the URL/IP, such that connections failed | 11:53 |
| woglinde | jaem nope no new build | 11:53 |
| pupnik | ok | 11:53 |
| jaem | woglinde, fair enough, I understand | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | fwiw, my clone is done | 11:53 |
| timeless_mbp | oops, wrong window | 11:53 |
| woglinde | I realised I didnt pushed my latest patches from my external repos | 11:53 |
| woglinde | so I gave to figure something out to get it clean | 11:53 |
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| jaem | timeless_mbp, is it an evil clone, or just one to harvest organs from? | 11:54 |
| jaem | ...or git? | 11:54 |
| jaem | >:) | 11:54 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: cloning 100+ hg repos from symbian | 11:55 |
| tybollt | hmm | 11:55 |
| timeless_mbp | cloning evil makes an evil clone, i guess? | 11:55 |
| tybollt | gadgetoid_mbp is timeless's clone IIRC ;) | 11:55 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 11:55 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, ah, mercury poisoning... that'd explain the criminal insanity | 11:55 |
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| jaem | those N900 desk stands from fake on t.m.o look pretty shiny | 11:58 |
| jaem | I'm trying to convince my uni project team to get some so we can do a group order | 11:58 |
| X-Fade | jaem: I'm just using my 770 stand. Works fine for N900. | 11:59 |
| jaem | X-Fade, huh, that's neat... but I don't have a 770 | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | jaem: Nice and rubbery too, so it doesn't slip on your desk. | 11:59 |
| jaem | ...then again, the two N900s I currently have on me are nice | 11:59 |
| jaem | :) | 11:59 |
| jaem | especially the looks I get around campus from the people that recognize them | 12:00 |
| jaem | engineering students get all the toys :) | 12:00 |
| tybollt | jaem: url please? | 12:00 |
| tybollt | X-Fade: that _very good_ | 12:01 |
| jaem | which reminds me... what's the simplest way to do a screenvid aside from the status applet (which currently doesn't work)? My prof has been requesting one for our demo app for a while now. | 12:01 |
| jaem | tybollt, coming up... | 12:01 |
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| jaem | tybollt, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43593 | 12:01 |
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| tybollt | frankly I've had it up to here w/ idiot companies making desktop stands w/out rubber feet so they slip n slide, fuck damnit that is so god damn irritating | 12:01 |
| * tybollt is very angry now :S | 12:01 | |
| tybollt | jaem: thks | 12:01 |
| jaem | tybollt, this is just an individual with a laser cutter doing them | 12:02 |
| jaem | and they have non-slip coating on the wooden ones | 12:02 |
| jaem | ...not on the acrylic | 12:02 |
| MiXu- | The stand on N900 is crap | 12:03 |
| jaem | and the person who's making them took plenty of suggestions from forum users in the prototyping stage, so they should be good | 12:03 |
| MiXu- | It's unstable if you have the keyboard out | 12:03 |
| jaem | MiXu-, yeah, I was pretty disappointed, coming from the N810 | 12:03 |
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| jaem | ...which, by the way, also conveniently allowed me to hold it in one hand | 12:03 |
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| jaem | you can do the same thing with the N900's if your fingers are slim enough, but I'm always worried I'll snap it off, even if it saves me from dropping the phone | 12:04 |
| MiXu- | Hmm. Now that you mention it, N900's stand can be used that way as well | 12:04 |
| MiXu- | At least with my fingers | 12:04 |
| pupnik | i heard from bfree that a company is making an extended battery with custom back cover for n900 (!) | 12:04 |
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| jaem | pupnik, that'd be nice, but is it a company we can trust, or some sketchy eBay store? | 12:04 |
| jaem | ..being a battery | 12:05 |
| MiXu- | Not sure if I want one. | 12:05 |
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| pupnik | dunno. but they could do a better stand | 12:05 |
| jaem | mmn... yeah | 12:05 |
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| * timeless_mbp cries | 12:05 | |
| MiXu- | The size of N900 is the maximum I'm willing to have on a phone. | 12:05 |
| timeless_mbp | i recently wrote some fun code | 12:05 |
| timeless_mbp | but now i have no idea where | 12:05 |
| pupnik | we all lose our minds a piece at a time, timeless_mbp | 12:05 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, what sort of code? | 12:05 |
| jaem | pupnik, you don't keep yours in git? *gasp* | 12:05 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: actually i think it's in the code you're thinking of :) | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | it is :) | 12:06 |
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| timeless_mbp | pupnik: i think i lose more than one piece at a time :) | 12:06 |
| * jaem was going to make some crack about it not being the code I was looking for, but then realized that he didn't have any idea which code is being mentioned | 12:06 | |
| jaem | s/I/he/ | 12:06 |
| timeless_mbp | jaem: i just needed a piece to juggle a 'maybe list' | 12:07 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, which code? I'm confused | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | which i've used a *lot* in the code you have from me | 12:07 |
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| jaem | ?? | 12:07 |
| timeless_mbp | don't worry about it :) | 12:07 |
| * timeless_mbp is happy | 12:07 | |
| * jaem is still confused | 12:08 | |
| timeless_mbp | don't worry about it :) | 12:08 |
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| jaem | tybollt, what do you think of the stands? | 12:14 |
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| tybollt | jaem: they are nice, I'd buy one | 12:16 |
| jaem | tybollt, and cheap, too | 12:16 |
| tybollt | ok | 12:16 |
| jaem | I appreciate the price, but I feel bad, wondering if they guy's making much money from them | 12:17 |
| jaem | I suppose that given the informality of the procedure, I could always add a bit extra to be nice :P | 12:17 |
| tybollt | he's ina US right? | 12:18 |
| tybollt | hrrm | 12:18 |
| tybollt | I'd love the acrylic but I _need_ the rubbery feet | 12:18 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 12:21 | |
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| w00t | timeless_mbp: you *lose* code? :p | 12:23 |
| w00t | it usually takes me a few weeks or months before I manage to forget which machine I left something on | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | w00t: what's wrong w/ losing code? | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | i have ~5-10 machines i use regularly | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | it's trivial for me to lose code | 12:23 |
| timeless_mbp | plus i'm juggling 5-10 projects in 5+ languages | 12:24 |
| Shadikka | I'm coding a "real" program for the purpose of using it on N900 for the first time ^^ | 12:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | c,c++,perl,python,javascript,english-fingrish | 12:24 |
| Shadikka | (real as in not a quick little Python script made to download all the XKCD strips or something) | 12:24 |
| slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, sshfs and store it in one place? :) | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: grumble | 12:24 |
| timeless_mbp | most of my code exists in at least 3 places | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | in this case i was looking for a _code_pattern_ | 12:25 |
| * w00t shoves everything into git repositories and pushes it back to one server | 12:25 | |
| slonopotamus | there should be only two - working copy and repo where you push it to. | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | which meant "which language did i use this in [oh duh]", "which projects was using this language [oh duh]", "where did i use this [oh right!]" | 12:25 |
| dnaumov | yay, reflashing seems to have fixed my issue with the rootfs suddenly going readonly | 12:25 |
| timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: i have 3: my mac because it's here, my vm, because i need it to build, remote because getting my vm to talk to my mac is painful and it enables me to do work from my n900 which doesn't always get along w/ my n900 either | 12:26 |
| timeless_mbp | for mozilla, it's similar | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | m-c + c-c's m-c, + remote's m-c (for pushing) | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | so i typically have 3 nearly identical repos | 12:27 |
| timeless_mbp | but an incomplete change is typically only going to be in one of those places | 12:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | for mxr, i have mxr-test, mxr for pushing, mxr.maemo | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | so yeah, 3 seems to be my magic number :) | 12:28 |
| pupnik | all these johnny-come-lately distros thinking they understand embedded is... amusing | 12:28 |
| timeless_mbp | which ones? | 12:29 |
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| pupnik | Ubuntu Armel, Fedora Embedded | 12:29 |
| timeless_mbp | are they really new? | 12:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | (not that i've ever seen anyone use them) | 12:30 |
| pupnik | 'we can crosscompile too!' is the extent of it | 12:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/comics/irreg2571.jpg | 12:32 |
| pupnik | Btw that fosdem app should be ringing alarm bells for everyone who likes the idea of QT on embedded. | 12:32 |
| pupnik | heh | 12:32 |
| timeless_mbp | fosdem app? | 12:32 |
| pupnik | yes they wrote a schedule app for N900, iphone, openmoko and others | 12:33 |
| jaem | timeless_mbp, LOL @ IWC :D | 12:33 |
| jaem | I haven't read that in a while, but that one is epic | 12:33 |
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| pupnik | n900 one takes about 300ms to scroll one frame down a list | 12:33 |
| jaem | pupnik, wait, being a schedule app, isn't it a *good* thing for it to be ringing alarm bells? | 12:34 |
| jaem | or are you talking about figurative mental alarm bells? :P | 12:34 |
| hrw | basically fosdem app sucks totally when it comes to usability/speed | 12:34 |
| hrw | but even such is better then just importing ical to maemo5 calendar | 12:34 |
| * alterego wonders when the next firmware update for N900 comes out. | 12:34 | |
| slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, lol :) | 12:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, so... | 12:35 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 12:35 | |
| timeless_mbp | how the heck do i do this? | 12:35 |
| hrw | alterego: 2011.04.15 | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | i have a set of 216 changes that i want to make | 12:35 |
| timeless_mbp | on a tree which has hrm, say 10,000 files (probably way off, but whatever) | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | how should i figure out which files to change? | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | doing 216 recursive crawls seems like a terrible idea :) | 12:36 |
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| hrw | timeless_mbp: use git? | 12:36 |
| timeless_mbp | how would that help? | 12:37 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's still 216 distinct commits no matter which dvcs i choose | 12:37 |
| timeless_mbp | and that's because i *want* 216 distinct commits | 12:37 |
| tybollt | why d? | 12:37 |
| w00t | pfft, after the first crawl, it'll all be in cache anyway *g* | 12:37 |
| tybollt | everyone is so needy about the "d" part? | 12:37 |
| jaem | that reminds me... I read a sci-fi novel years ago in which they had a network of teleport gates that not only did virus-scan and rejuvenation, but also ran git on your body/consciousness | 12:37 |
| jaem | not "git" by name, but essentially that | 12:37 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: you have those changes done and want to split them to 216 changes? | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | tybollt: well, because it came as a dvcs from symbian | 12:38 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: no, i have calculated what the changes are | 12:38 |
| jaem | you could just check out a copy of yourself, use it to take care of stuff you didn't care to do, and then merge it back in to master (you) and not miss a thing | 12:38 |
| jaem | :) | 12:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | hrw: this is one commit: | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | asynchronous: s/\basyncronous\b/asynchronous/ s/\bAsyncronous\b/Asynchronous/ | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | s/\bASYNCRONOUS\b/ASYNCHRONOUS/ | 12:39 |
| hrw | tybollt: distributed vcs allows me to work instead of waiting 5 minutes for each "svn diff" when repository is on other side of world on slow connection | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | this is another: | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | successful: s/\bsuccesfull\b/successful/ s/\bsuccessfull\b/successful/ | 12:39 |
| timeless_mbp | s/\bSuccessfull\b/Successful/ | 12:39 |
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| * satmd has a fine idea | 12:39 | |
| satmd | emulating a usb keyboard | 12:39 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: I gave up as I do not understand | 12:39 |
| satmd | I could boot my encrypted boxes that way | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: i'm fixing spelling mistakes in a repository | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | for each 'word' that's misspelled, i'm constructing one commit | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | but the word isn't misspelled in one known file in the repository | 12:40 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: git init; git add .; git commit -m"initial" | 12:40 |
| timeless_mbp | it's misspelled in n not particularly known places | 12:40 |
| * timeless_mbp eyes hrw | 12:40 | |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: then run sed; git commit -m"sed: this->THIS" | 12:41 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: repeat until end | 12:41 |
| slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, so, what's the problem of using sed on whole tree? | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: 216 times? | 12:41 |
| timeless_mbp | and the fact that sed doesn't have a --recursive flag in 'man sed' | 12:41 |
| hrw | timeless_mbp: sed -e "s/this/THIS/g" `grep this -l -r *` | 12:41 |
| slonopotamus | find/grep + sed. | 12:42 |
| hrw | grep will find all files, give filenames and sed with alter | 12:42 |
| slonopotamus | find, i guess. | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | hrw: oh, there are dozens of ways for me to do this | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | e.g. i have a box where there's an index for this, so i could use it | 12:42 |
| slonopotamus | timeless, write small perl/bash script that'll run sed and then perform commit :) | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: already doing that .... | 12:42 |
| slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, in a loop, i mean :) | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | you don't honestly expect me to do the 216 commits by hand, do you? | 12:43 |
| slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, what does your _mbp stand for, btw? | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | macbook pro | 12:43 |
| slonopotamus | oh | 12:43 |
| timeless_mbp | same as everyone else's _mbp :) | 12:43 |
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| jaem | timeless_mbp, "mostly broken phone"? | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | 'not a phone at all' | 12:44 |
| jaem | "my bad purchase" | 12:44 |
| jaem | -snerk- | 12:44 |
| jaem | sorry, couldn't resist | 12:44 |
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| * tybollt knows a few extremely very talented people writing some of the hairiest unix code you will imagine... | 12:57 | |
| tybollt | these people use MBP and similar for their everyday tasks... so... :) | 12:57 |
| tybollt | I don't see SHINY ! knowledgeable as some will have it... | 12:58 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 12:58 |
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| * timeless_mbp runs sh -x ./doit.sh | 12:59 | |
| timeless_mbp | ok, this failed | 12:59 |
| timeless_mbp | badly | 12:59 |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 13:00 | |
| timeless_mbp | so why did it fail? | 13:00 |
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| tybollt | ENOLOLCATS? | 13:00 |
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| timeless_mbp | yeah, well 'erandomquotationmarksmakemecry' | 13:01 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/MCL/sf/mw/accesssec/.hg/patches/acknowledge | 13:03 |
| timeless_mbp | is a random example of a generated patch fwiw | 13:03 |
| anidel | morning | 13:04 |
| slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, bad patch | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | slonopotamus: why? | 13:06 |
| slonopotamus | timeless, acknowled should become acknowledged, not acknowledge. | 13:06 |
| timeless_mbp | thanks | 13:07 |
| * timeless_mbp updates the correction list | 13:07 | |
| timeless_mbp | feel free to look through the rest | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | skip any file that's <100 in size | 13:07 |
| timeless_mbp | (those are empty patches which failed to generate proper changes) | 13:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/MCL/sf/mw/accesssec/.hg/badwords.txt | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | is my current change set | 13:08 |
| slonopotamus | timeless_mbp, same file, lines 12-13... smth changed? | 13:08 |
| timeless_mbp | the comment | 13:09 |
| slonopotamus | ah, yep | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | the fact that the files have really long lines is so not my fault | 13:09 |
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| timeless_mbp | and i do not want to change anything else while i'm doing this | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | it's bad enough that for 216 changes i'm really risking stuff | 13:09 |
| timeless_mbp | (216 is a nice number btw) | 13:09 |
| slonopotamus | addiditional??? :) | 13:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | you mean http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/MCL/sf/mw/accesssec/.hg/patches/additional ? | 13:10 |
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| slonopotamus | no, i mean its existe(a?)nce at all :) | 13:11 |
| slonopotamus | e. | 13:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | yeah well | 13:14 |
| timeless_mbp | iirc this is the 'small' list | 13:15 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/ | 13:15 |
| timeless_mbp | this is from 'badwords.txt' not from 'appinstall-badwords.txt' | 13:15 |
| timeless_mbp | 2k of words leads to 216 changesets | 13:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | imagine what 11k of words leads to :) | 13:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | (271 lines v. 1181 lines) | 13:15 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 13:16 | |
| timeless_mbp | some of them actually don't look bad | 13:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | note that the root badword*.txt files are first round, some words might be correct in which case they won't appear in the replacement list :) | 13:17 |
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| * pupnik decides that maemo text entry should correct some words to badwords at random | 13:18 | |
| hrw | argh... why firefox is so sluggish (on desktop) | 13:19 |
| jaem | hrw, insufficient RAM? | 13:20 |
| slonopotamus | hrw, ... it always worked that way. | 13:20 |
| jaem | excessive browsing? | 13:20 |
| hrw | jaem: 8GB in machine | 13:20 |
| jaem | my friend generally uses about as much RAM from FF alone as I have in my primary desktop | 13:20 |
| hrw | slonopotamus: I know | 13:20 |
| jaem | ~2GB | 13:20 |
| jaem | >_< | 13:20 |
| hrw | 32644 hrw 20 0 1089m 307m 33m D 4.5 3.9 8:39.07 firefox-bin | 13:20 |
| jaem | and then he has to use about two to three other browsers to get all the uni sites and a few others to work properly | 13:21 |
| jaem | heh | 13:21 |
| jacekowski | that's why i'm not using FF | 13:21 |
| * jacekowski is a opera user | 13:21 | |
| MiXu- | It's easy to fcuk FF up with some bad extensions. | 13:22 |
| jacekowski | mhm, how to get to internal memory on n900? | 13:22 |
| jacekowski | over usb in storage mode | 13:22 |
| hrw | jacekowski: in 2020 when opera will gain features of ff 3.6... I maybe will switch | 13:22 |
| jacekowski | hrw: name them | 13:22 |
| MiXu- | jacekowski: SSH/SCP | 13:22 |
| jacekowski | hrw: because opera have them all | 13:22 |
| jacekowski | MiXu-: over usb | 13:22 |
| MiXu- | jacekowski: Yes. You need usbnetworking for that. | 13:22 |
| jacekowski | scp is too slow | 13:22 |
| jacekowski | MiXu-: on windows xp? | 13:23 |
| MiXu- | On windows you need a virtual machine with linux =) | 13:23 |
| MiXu- | That's how I used to access N900 back in the day. | 13:23 |
| hrw | jacekowski: extensions: firebug, greasemonkey, greader notify, delicious, webdeveloper | 13:23 |
| jacekowski | is there any nice way to kill any apps accessing internal phone memory? | 13:23 |
| mgedmin | power off the phone, jacekowski | 13:24 |
| hrw | jacekowski: and opera does not want to look like my kde4/gtk apps | 13:24 |
| jacekowski | hrw: opera firefly, | 13:24 |
| jacekowski | hrw: userJS | 13:24 |
| jacekowski | hrw: greader notify - is that RSS thing? | 13:24 |
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| jaem | hrw, Opera is stock Qt, no? | 13:24 |
| jacekowski | yes | 13:25 |
| jacekowski | you just need to use -style to tell it to use specific style | 13:25 |
| hrw | jacekowski: it checks how much unread entries greader has | 13:25 |
| jaem | jacekowski, hmm... as far as | 13:25 |
| jaem | -- yes | 13:25 |
| jaem | that was it | 13:25 |
| jacekowski | hrw: you can make/get button for that | 13:25 |
| jaem | although if it does anything fancy, that may not be sufficient | 13:25 |
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| jacekowski | and opera has widgets | 13:26 |
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| hrw | jacekowski: and I want font antialiasing... | 13:26 |
| jacekowski | opera uses qt settings for that | 13:26 |
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| jacekowski | opera has everything | 13:27 |
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| hrw | so does ME IE6 | 13:27 |
| hrw | according to some users | 13:27 |
| jacekowski | have you ever tried it? | 13:28 |
| jaem | hrw, links!!! | 13:28 |
| mgedmin | opera has everything? even an open-source licence??? | 13:29 |
| MohammadAG | oh nice, a flash got rid of my angry birds save | 13:29 |
| hrw | jacekowski: I used msie2/4/5/5.5/6/7/8, phoenix/firebird/firefox, opera 5-10, few gecko based ones, links, elinks, lynx (my first browser), aweb, voyager, ibrowse, safari, icab/macos7, opera/zaurus, safari, few others | 13:29 |
| jacekowski | you forgot about www | 13:31 |
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| wazd | heya everyone | 13:35 |
| hrw | jacekowski: ? | 13:35 |
| hrw | hi wazd | 13:35 |
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| jaem | hiya, wazd | 13:38 |
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| alterego | Grr, I shouldn't have compressed this filesystem image. | 13:46 |
| jaem | night | 13:46 |
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| MiXu- | wtf, why is there a different login for talk.maemo.org and maemo.org? :P | 13:46 |
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| mgedmin | historical reasons, probably | 13:49 |
| w00t | MiXu-: different software packages, and no SSO | 13:49 |
| X-Fade | MiXu-: Because the are completely different servers and applications. | 13:50 |
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| MiXu- | I understand the technical reasoning, but it's bad usability. | 13:52 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: ping | 13:52 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: ping | 13:52 |
| X-Fade | MiXu-: It is also had to solve ;) | 13:52 |
| X-Fade | *hard | 13:52 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: you'll do | 13:52 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: how can I get a blog post aggregated on planet? | 13:52 |
| Jaffa | MiXu-: Get in touch with reggie, danielwilms and X-Fade with an offer to help set up the necessary integration | 13:52 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: Me me me :) | 13:52 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: There's an "Aggregate your blog" link which says to email X-Fa^Wplanet@maemo.org ;-) | 13:53 |
| MiXu- | Hm. You'd think fixing stuff like that would be in Nokia's interest | 13:53 |
| X-Fade | Btw, extras-devel is finally getting a cleanig atm. | 13:53 |
| X-Fade | So by the end of the day it won't be as insanely big and heavy to load as it is now ;) | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | will it backup the old versions somewhere? | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | (i'm thinking GPL requirement if we give out binaries) | 13:54 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: I have a trash dir ;) | 13:54 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: And sources stay there. | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | good | 13:54 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: But I will move sources later to a GPL store location. | 13:55 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: just give you a link and ask nicely? | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | (why did i feel like the communist party representant on a ship right there? :P) | 13:55 |
| X-Fade | Need to write a script to detect license and then move the gpl ones. | 13:55 |
| hrw | X-Fade: so no more 11 versions of app in extras-devel? | 13:55 |
| hrw | X-Fade: just keep all sources | 13:55 |
| X-Fade | hrw: correct, only 8 for now ;) | 13:55 |
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| X-Fade | hrw: of course. | 13:55 |
| X-Fade | I do the first run with 8 to be sure everything is ok. | 13:56 |
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| MiXu- | Anyone tried the maepad? | 14:01 |
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| MiXu- | For me it makes a weird extra dot in the beginning of every "line" | 14:02 |
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| Wolfie | MiXu-: same here | 14:05 |
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| hrw | X-Fade: "du" checks my local sources mirror for over 12 minutes now | 14:08 |
| X-Fade | hrw: sources won't change now though. | 14:09 |
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| hrw | hrw@home:~$ du -hs devel/sources/dl_dir/ | 14:11 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: can you add this to planet: http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/2010/02/me-too.html ? | 14:11 |
| hrw | 30G devel/sources/dl_dir/ | 14:11 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: Can you create a maemo specific feed? | 14:12 |
| crashanddie | dunno | 14:12 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: yeah, don't add the other 500 posts :P | 14:12 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: I can probably add a tag? | 14:13 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: tag them with maemo and give me the feed for that tag ;) | 14:13 |
| Jaffa | MiXu-: Re "in Nokia's interest"; maemo.org is a community-run site | 14:13 |
| crashanddie | timeless: how should we do this? | 14:13 |
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| MiXu- | Jaffa: I know | 14:13 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: oh, ok | 14:13 |
| MiXu- | But it has Nokia's support, right? | 14:13 |
| w00t | X-Fade: can you get RSS for specific tags? | 14:14 |
| X-Fade | w00t: blogger supports that, yes. | 14:14 |
| w00t | hrrm | 14:15 |
| * w00t wasn't able to find it earlier | 14:15 | |
| Jaffa | MiXu-: Nokia pay for the hosting and pay for a few members of staff. danielwilms is a Nokia employee also working on the SSO task. However, people like X-Fade seem to have far more to do than the number of hours in a day... | 14:15 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: you wouldn't have an example of what that URL would look like? | 14:15 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: I've added the tag maemo, but still no idea how to get an rss around that tag | 14:16 |
| crashanddie | I'm a blogger noob. I just write | 14:16 |
| w00t | http://www.clariusconsulting.net/blogs/kzu/archive/2007/11/16/41836.aspx looks relevant | 14:16 |
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| Corsac | hmhm <karmawhore>shouldn't extra uploads give karma?</karmawhore> | 14:17 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default/-/maemo?alt=rss | 14:18 |
| crashanddie | http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default/-/maemo | 14:18 |
| crashanddie | heh | 14:18 |
| MiXu- | Jaffa: Ok, I see. But like I said. I think it would be in Nokia's interest to make sure that maemo.org is a positive experience for people. Most people don't know that maemo.org is community-driven. | 14:19 |
| X-Fade | MiXu-: Yes and no. That is what maemo.nokia.com is for. | 14:20 |
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| X-Fade | MiXu-: That is Nokia's Maemo frontend. | 14:20 |
| anidel | MiXu: well paying for hosting and paying people like X-Fade.. I think their doing it.. don't they? | 14:20 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: added to the planet. | 14:21 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: name "Sebastian Lauwers" ? | 14:21 |
| MiXu- | anidel: Yes. | 14:21 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: That is what it says, yes. | 14:22 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: cheers :) Thanks | 14:22 |
| X-Fade | crashanddie: Will take up to an hour to be fetched. | 14:22 |
| crashanddie | ok, no problem, thanks heaps | 14:22 |
| w00t | X-Fade: mind adding me while you're at it? | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | w00t: yes. | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | w00t: :) | 14:23 |
| X-Fade | Lunch first, then we'll talk. | 14:23 |
| w00t | alrighty | 14:24 |
| w00t | bon appetit | 14:24 |
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| jacekowski | is there any toolchain avaliable for n900? | 14:27 |
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| crashanddie | anidel: lol at your comment on the human firewall thread | 14:28 |
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| anidel | crashanddie, eheheheh | 14:28 |
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| jaem | huh | 14:29 |
| anidel | crashanddie, reading your post... I like the line "I feel like I'm losing the thread of the thought...." me too! :P | 14:29 |
| jaem | the KDE website says maemo.org is working on support for the services provided initially by OpenDesktop.org | 14:29 |
| jaem | is there any info on that? That's the first I've heard | 14:29 |
| anidel | ahhh I hoped to had an answer to that question... | 14:29 |
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| anidel | anyway 'unzipped' is quite nice indeed :D zip it in a condom or leave it zipped and you're fine :p | 14:36 |
| ruskie | services provided by opendesktop.org? what do they provide? other then the web browsable stuff | 14:36 |
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| jaem | ruskie, the Open Collaboration Services API... in KDE's software, it supports integrated content sharing (e.g. wallpaper download/upload, sysmon worksheets, projects in some of the Edu apps, etc.) | 14:37 |
| * RST38h yawns and idly asks what's up in the wonderful (sic) maemoworld | 14:37 | |
| jaem | and there's also some social networking aspects, as well as a knowledgebase | 14:37 |
| ruskie | ow | 14:38 |
| jaem | I think there's more, as well, which I just haven't seen exposed | 14:38 |
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| RST38h | jaem: Anyone actually using this stuff? =) | 14:38 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa: read that post if you have the time | 14:38 |
| jaem | RST38h, KDE is | 14:38 |
| RST38h | jaem: Is KDE a person? | 14:39 |
| jaem | ruskie, RST38h, I think their Grand Plan is to voluntarily absorb all the data from the (closed) social web, and then free it all, and make it integrated with the Free Desktop | 14:39 |
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| jaem | RST38h, no, but due to recent rebranding it now has been disambiguated to refer to the community or the project | 14:39 |
| RST38h | jaem: They should keep their grand plan for their psychiatrist | 14:39 |
| jaem | lol | 14:39 |
| RST38h | jaem: but, closer to the ground, is anyone actually *using* these features of KDE? | 14:40 |
| jaem | "KDE" used to be used to refer to the people, the organization, the DE, the apps, the dev platform, and their webmaster's cat | 14:40 |
| RST38h | Or are they like Google Wave? | 14:40 |
| Hukka | Hmh, how long has wiki.m.o been down? | 14:40 |
| jaem | now they've made it more complicated, but less confusing | 14:40 |
| jaem | RST38h, yes, most of what I mentioned has been in there for a while, and the rest is new in 4.4 | 14:40 |
| jaem | e.g. when you go to choose a wallpaper, there's a button that you can click to search and install/update new ones | 14:41 |
| jaem | same with themese | 14:41 |
| jaem | themeses* :P | 14:41 |
| jaem | and if you use their physics sim in your class, you can (IIRC) upload your projects so that other schools/people can use them | 14:41 |
| jaem | etc. | 14:41 |
| jaem | there's a knowledgebase widget so you can search for help from your desktop | 14:41 |
| jaem | and other stuff | 14:42 |
| jaem | so yes, it is widely used | 14:42 |
| jaem | but not all of the features, yet | 14:42 |
| jaem | some of them weren't well-exposed before | 14:42 |
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| jaem | and also, OpenDesktop.org is currently the only provider, which somewhat limits the usefulness of some aspects | 14:42 |
| jaem | what they have is cool, though | 14:42 |
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| VDVsx | jaem, do you have the link to that blog post/info ? | 14:45 |
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| jaem | VDVsx, oh yeah, I was going to paste it, and then I got distracted :P | 14:47 |
| jaem | http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.4/applications.php - just short of halfway down, under "OpenDesktop" | 14:47 |
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| jaem | that page is still pre-release, FYI | 14:47 |
| VDVsx | jaem, thanks | 14:47 |
| jaem | it's due for actual publication a bit later today, I think | 14:47 |
| jaem | as I said, it's the first I'd heard | 14:47 |
| sjaensch | hi | 14:47 |
| jaem | although it would be cool | 14:47 |
| jaem | hey | 14:48 |
| sjaensch | is garage.maemo.org having problems? Is that why I can't login on maemo.org? | 14:48 |
| jaem | *sigh*... someone go reboot the 770 in the closet ;) | 14:48 |
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| ruskie | :) | 14:50 |
| VDVsx | jaem, yeah, and they are referring directly to maemo.org not Maemo or Nokia, so the community, news for me as well :D | 14:50 |
| jaem | VDVsx, yeah, I noticed the distinction, and I was curious as to who they'd talked to | 14:50 |
| jaem | maybe I'll poke someone on #kde | 14:50 |
| jaem | although that would be a nice thing for Maemo/Nokia to get on board with, given the amount of system integration that we'd ideally want | 14:51 |
| jaem | -shrug- | 14:51 |
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| X-Fade | VDVsx: Daniel's app uses an API for downloads which uses the opendesktop standard. | 14:54 |
| jaem | X-Fade, which app? | 14:54 |
| jaem | which Daniel? | 14:54 |
| X-Fade | VDVsx: *social desktop | 14:54 |
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| ruskie | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43872 <-- hmm | 14:54 |
| X-Fade | jaem: appdownloader | 14:55 |
| jaem | X-Fade, ah, okay | 14:55 |
| jaem | that uses the OCS API, or something else? | 14:55 |
| VDVsx | jaem, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Download_client_for_extras-applications | 14:55 |
| X-Fade | jaem: OCS yes. | 14:55 |
| jaem | X-Fade, ah, neat | 14:56 |
| jaem | is that integrated with maemo-apps.org, then? That seemed to be defunct last time I looked at it | 14:56 |
| X-Fade | jaem: That created the need to extend the ocs api spec, so talk is going on with them. | 14:56 |
| X-Fade | jaem: maemo.org services are at .... maemo.org ;) | 14:56 |
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| jaem | X-Fade, I figured, but I never looked into the origins of maemo-apps.org, and it seemed to be part of the OpenDesktop.org family, so I wasn't sure | 14:58 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: I had to reverse engineer danielwilms' code to find the API though (and I still think the downloads numbers are massively suspect ;-)) | 15:02 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: there is a bug for that ;) | 15:02 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: And yes, downloads are orders of magnitude higher. | 15:02 |
| jaem | Jaffa, you mean like Apple's "app sales" stats *cough* | 15:02 |
| jaem | ;) | 15:02 |
| X-Fade | Than what is shown on the site. | 15:03 |
| Jaffa | jaem: Yeah, but I don't care about them. | 15:03 |
| jaem | oh wait... you can't "pirate" Free apps :P | 15:03 |
| jaem | Jaffa, I was kidding | 15:03 |
| Jaffa | jaem: indeed | 15:03 |
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| ie | hello | 15:17 |
| jacekowski | i'm just wondering how complicated it would be to create iphone api emulator for n900 | 15:18 |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: There's some threads on tmo about it | 15:18 |
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| Jaffa | jacekowski: "Probably too hard" is the best answer | 15:19 |
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| lcuk | Jaffa, a few years ago, people asked the same thing about windows compatibility layer | 15:19 |
| lcuk | it would be amusing to run iphone apps within maemo | 15:20 |
| tybollt | as someone said... | 15:20 |
| tybollt | 99.9999% of iphone apps are basically remakes of webpages that their retardo-browser can't handle | 15:20 |
| jacekowski | well, it's same CPU | 15:20 |
| jacekowski | both kernels are posix compatible | 15:20 |
| tybollt | those pages works in n900 | 15:20 |
| tybollt | so no need really | 15:21 |
| jacekowski | it's just translating syscalls and emulating iphone display features using X | 15:21 |
| jaem | tybollt, that is true | 15:21 |
| tybollt | jacekowski: dude what are you smoking? Windows is fricken posix compatible :) | 15:21 |
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| jaem | tybollt, ...either that or stupid things that are amusing for about 5s | 15:21 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: By "a few", read "over ten" and it's still not complete and has taken hundreds of man years of effort. | 15:21 |
| jaem | tybollt, for some values of "compatible", with addons | 15:21 |
| lcuk | jaffa, the mighty oak is grown from a single seed | 15:22 |
| jaem | disclaimer: I haven't actually used said addons | 15:22 |
| jaem | lcuk, not if I *BURN* the seed | 15:22 |
| MiXu- | My favorite iPhone app is the one that has a video of a flame in it. And nothing else. | 15:22 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I didn't say it wasn't *technically* possible | 15:22 |
| jaem | lcuk, what are you talking about, by the way? | 15:22 |
| lcuk | indeed | 15:22 |
| * jaem looks confused | 15:22 | |
| jaem | lol | 15:22 |
| jaem | MiXu-, isn't that on TV at Christmas, too? :P | 15:22 |
| MiXu- | Oh, the "beer pint simulator" also rocks my world. | 15:22 |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: How complete is the iPhone OS documentation on API; packaging; execution? How available is it without being a paid iPhone developer? | 15:23 |
| jaem | I thought about trying to code grayscale emulation for my Logitech G15 keyboard so I could have Happy Flames to *cough* warm my hands over while coding in the winter | 15:23 |
| jaem | :P | 15:23 |
| mece | I've seen some pretty cool iphone apps. I mean apps that were actually useful. There was this ski resort mapping thing that was pretty sweet. very fast and smooth. | 15:23 |
| MiXu- | Sure there are good ones also :) | 15:24 |
| frals | lcuk: how was fosdem? :) | 15:24 |
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| Jaffa | jacekowski: Not only do you have to have a complete set of APIs, you also have to have implementations of things like CoreGraphics and CoreAnimation which may not have a direct Maemo equivalent (though, I'd guess, Qt 4.6 may make it easier) | 15:25 |
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| lcuk | frals, amazing actually, loads of n900s around and lots of buzz in most areas. some great talks and even greater people participating | 15:26 |
| lcuk | jaem, mmm greyscale emulation? | 15:26 |
| frals | lcuk: nice :) | 15:26 |
| lcuk | how are you after returning from helsinki | 15:27 |
| ie | question: does anyone know if the n900 can receive "blackberry broadcast messages" ? | 15:27 |
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| jaem | lcuk, well, the keyboard only has a monochrome LCD | 15:27 |
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| jaem | backlit with orange | 15:27 |
| lcuk | jaem, yeah but how do you program it? | 15:27 |
| jaem | but while I understand the principles behind grayscale emulation, I didn't have the coding skills at the time to do it with that hardware | 15:27 |
| jacekowski | Jaffa: it's not that complicated | 15:27 |
| jacekowski | Jaffa: it might be hard to make it efficient | 15:28 |
| frals | lcuk: great - got lots of stuff im working on :D | 15:28 |
| jacekowski | Jaffa: but in the end X proto isn't that different | 15:28 |
| jaem | lcuk, there's a library to do it - the problem is that something (not sure if it's hardware or software) latches the image when you "send" the buffer to the screen | 15:28 |
| frals | only downside its really busy in uni as well, so dont have time to code (on fmms) as much as i want | 15:28 |
| jaem | so cycling through sub-frames while still responding to requests to update the (actual) frame requires threading | 15:29 |
| jaem | which I'm actually just covering now in class | 15:29 |
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| jacekowski | well, up untill not so long ago there was no real multithreading | 15:31 |
| jacekowski | it was just emulated | 15:31 |
| jaem | jacekowski, I mean threading in terms of code | 15:31 |
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| jaem | which I didn't know how to do at the time | 15:31 |
| jaem | so I shelved it | 15:31 |
| jaem | since the utility of the code would have been somewhat limited anyway | 15:32 |
| jaem | I may do it some time, though, for practice | 15:32 |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: Sounds like you'll have it well in hand then. Even a proof-of-concept would be cool. | 15:34 |
| jaem | hmm... I think I may have misread that | 15:35 |
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| dottedmag | Is there "real" GPS navigation software (I bet if there is it is commercial, but why not?) beyond Ovi Maps? | 15:41 |
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| jaem | dottedmag, I believe MaemoMapper is in -devel or -testing, but I don't know if it would fall under your definition of "real", seeing as you haven't defined it | 15:42 |
| dottedmag | jaem: turn-by-turn voice guide, recalculating path if you miss the highway exit etc. | 15:43 |
| dottedmag | Just the features you get from off-the-shelf "hardware" GPS navigator. | 15:44 |
| jaem | oh | 15:45 |
| jaem | yes, it does all of that, but you need the "backseat driver" plugin, which costs a lot to maintain, and has to be fed | 15:45 |
| jaem | ;) | 15:45 |
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| jaem | sorry, yeah, unfortunately nothing that good yet | 15:46 |
| jaem | :( | 15:46 |
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| dottedmag | Ovi or MM are pretty ok if you just walk around in unknown city, but for driving through several countries with lot of highways it's just a bit awkward | 15:46 |
| dottedmag | And yeah, backseat driver is a good solution :) | 15:46 |
| jaem | most versions of it don't have a C API, unfortunately | 15:47 |
| jaem | and the ones that do tend to ask for higher salaries | 15:47 |
| dottedmag | OTOH some versions pay for gasoline :) | 15:47 |
| jaem | mm... good point | 15:48 |
| timeless_mbp | !summon slonopotamus | 15:49 |
| dottedmag | okay, no luck in replacing 4 devices with single n900 :) | 15:49 |
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| jaem | dottedmag, just replace them with *4* N900s! | 15:49 |
| dottedmag | :) | 15:49 |
| dottedmag | I can't replace them even with 1000 N900s. Unless they will grow an AI being connected to network and write some decent navigation software :) | 15:50 |
| tybollt | dottedmag: MM? | 15:51 |
| dottedmag | tybollt: maemo mapper | 15:51 |
| MiXu- | Nokia's CEO promised N900 will have navigation | 15:51 |
| tybollt | he did? | 15:51 |
| dottedmag | and when? | 15:51 |
| dottedmag | (when promised) | 15:51 |
| * tybollt surprised the guy even know wtf a n900 is | 15:51 | |
| tybollt | :D | 15:51 |
| tybollt | also | 15:51 |
| X-Fade | MiXu-: It already has. | 15:52 |
| MiXu- | http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2010/01/21/nokia-n900-to-get-nokia-ovi-maps-free-navigation/ | 15:52 |
| dottedmag | X-Fade: well, it's mapping, not navigation. | 15:52 |
| X-Fade | MiXu-: Just no voiice navigation ;) | 15:52 |
| MiXu- | But wait. Actually the quote talks about maemo, not n900. | 15:52 |
| jaem | haha... someone was trolling on an unpublished article on the KDE Dot news site | 15:52 |
| X-Fade | Text nav works. | 15:52 |
| jaem | I had to mention it in #kde-www, and they weren't terribly impressed | 15:52 |
| jaem | XD | 15:52 |
| tybollt | MiXu-: "eventually" | 15:53 |
| tybollt | hah | 15:53 |
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| tybollt | you have to understand what "eventually" means in the nordics to parse that proper | 15:54 |
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| Jaffa | Anyone wanting to test providing library shims for cross-device compatibility could make a start on Diablo's libgpsbt to liblocation. Then we can run Wayfinder from an N810 :) | 15:54 |
| dottedmag | For the record: http://www.sygic.com/ - see the "maemo coming soon" | 15:54 |
| Jaffa | Which meets all the criteria above for a "real" GPS and, amazingly, looks like a fantastic app when compared wih Ovi Maps | 15:54 |
| viukkis | in the nordics, hell eventually freezes over | 15:54 |
| MiXu- | tybollt: Yes, just noticed that myself. | 15:54 |
| MiXu- | But I'm hopeful :) | 15:55 |
| MiXu- | I'm gonna have to buy Sygic if Ovi Maps doesn't get navigation... | 15:55 |
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| tybollt | I have a satnav thing in the car | 16:00 |
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| tybollt | tomtom shitz | 16:01 |
| tybollt | its my subscription just ended so need to renew :S | 16:02 |
| tybollt | har anyone found a decent car mount for the n900 btw? | 16:02 |
| MiXu- | Couldn't find one last weekend :/ | 16:03 |
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| dottedmag | tybollt: seen one that looked sane on Amazon, but it did not have micro-usb cable built-in | 16:05 |
| MiXu- | tybollt: http://www.brodit.com/?main=productinformation.jsp&anr=511099 | 16:07 |
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| alterego | Wow, just found the bluetooth watch stuff .. I wan it! :D | 16:07 |
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| Elerion | hi | 16:09 |
| tybollt | MiXu-: kiitos. | 16:09 |
| tybollt | alterego: ? | 16:10 |
| alterego | http://www.smartmadsoft.com/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=16&topic=176&page=0 | 16:10 |
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| tybollt | ah | 16:10 |
| * tybollt has a bluetooth watch but not that kind | 16:10 | |
| Elerion | i can login to maemo.org, but can login to garage. what could be wrong? | 16:11 |
| Elerion | i can not login to maemo.org, but can login to garage. what could be wrong? | 16:11 |
| MiXu- | tybollt: np :) | 16:11 |
| pupnik | different passwords perhaps | 16:12 |
| Jaffa | Elerion: What page on maemo.org are you trying to log in on? | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | Use the force, Luke! And if that doesn't work, turn it off and then back on again! | 16:13 |
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| Jaffa | Elerion: There are three accounts, currently: 1) http://bugs.maemo.org; 2) http://talk.maemo.org; 3) everything else.maemo.org. However, the passwords are held in Garage and synchronised everywhere else for #3, so changes on Garage can take a while to propogate to, say, http://maemo.org/downloads/ (X-Fade will correct me if I'm wrong) | 16:13 |
| Elerion | J: http://maemo.org top-right corner | 16:14 |
| Jaffa | Elerion: Username lower case? | 16:14 |
| jaem | Jaffa, does that mean if I change my Garage password, my maemo.org password will follow it? | 16:14 |
| jaem | because I can't for the life of me find a "change password" option on the main maemo.org site, and I have been wanting to do so for quite a while now | 16:14 |
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| Elerion | J: yes. lowercase. I registered to garage 2 months ago. it should be propagated by now... I never could login to mainpage btw. | 16:16 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: correct. | 16:18 |
| Shadikka | Meh, SDL is quite slow on N900. | 16:18 |
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| koala_man | do you use gles through sdl like you do with regular gl? | 16:19 |
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| ie | is there away for "n900 users" to chat with "blackberry messenger" users? | 16:19 |
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| RST38h | ie: yes, you can meet them face to face and chat. If they are willing to chat with someone not wearing a tie of course | 16:22 |
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| tybollt | actually, that's very funny | 16:22 |
| MiXu- | :D | 16:23 |
| tank-man | moderately so | 16:23 |
| tybollt | elaborating on that.. | 16:23 |
| jaem | RST38h, bwahahaha | 16:23 |
| jaem | nice one ;) | 16:23 |
| tybollt | you know... I once met a bleckberry user... who wasn't wearing a tie...! | 16:23 |
| ie | RST38h too bad i dont wear a suit | 16:23 |
| jaem | tybollt, yeah, I once saw a pink flying unicorn | 16:23 |
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| jaem | ...but it was a plush toy... and had apparently crash-landed in a bush near my townhouse | 16:24 |
| jaem | XD | 16:24 |
| * rmt waves. | 16:24 | |
| jaem | so yes... *ahem* | 16:24 |
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| rmt | The channel's grown a little since last time I was here. :-) | 16:24 |
| jaem | woah, yeah, it has | 16:24 |
| * jaem hadn't noticed | 16:24 | |
| jaem | well, goodnight #maemo | 16:25 |
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| jaem | er... morning | 16:25 |
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| rmt | Moin | 16:25 |
| jospoortvliet | hi all!!! | 16:26 |
| jospoortvliet | If any of you want to help out promoting the latest release of the KDE software compilation, it'd be greatly appreciated! | 16:26 |
| jospoortvliet | Here is the announcement on the dot: http://dot.kde.org/2010/02/09/kde-software-compilation-440-released | 16:26 |
| jospoortvliet | Feel free to comment ;-) | 16:26 |
| jospoortvliet | blog, tweet, dent, and help us dig and reddit: | 16:26 |
| jospoortvliet | http://digg.com/linux_unix/KDE_Software_Compilation_4_4_0_Introduces_new_innovations | 16:26 |
| jospoortvliet | http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/azx29/kde_software_compilation_440_introduces_netbook/ | 16:26 |
| jospoortvliet | The more the merrier and thanks in advance for helping us out :D | 16:26 |
| jospoortvliet | screenshots and more can be found on flickr and youtube, tagged KDE44 - feel free to add to the stream! | 16:26 |
| jospoortvliet | If you want to follow what is going on live, visit http://buzz.kde.org | 16:26 |
| jaem | jospoortvliet, I'll probably blog tomorrow, if I get time off from studying :P | 16:26 |
| jaem | Happy KDE Day! | 16:27 |
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| jaem | and thanks! | 16:27 |
| jospoortvliet | jaem: thanks to you too ;-) | 16:27 |
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| rmt | jospoortvliet, It runs under Maemo ? | 16:27 |
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| jospoortvliet | sure | 16:28 |
| Passeli | on N900, howto tell mplayer not to scale video to fullscreen ? | 16:28 |
| jospoortvliet | haven't you seen the screencasts? | 16:28 |
| jaem | Passeli, I think there's a switch for that | 16:28 |
| jospoortvliet | rmt: KDE software runs even on symbian so how could Maemo ever be difficult? | 16:28 |
| jaem | jospoortvliet, is the Plasma Mobile shell in a runnable (I didn't say "usable") condition? | 16:28 |
| rmt | jospoortvliet, Just wondering if you were spamming or whether it was related to the channel. | 16:29 |
| jaem | Chani was saying they were going to be hacking on it at Tokamak, but I don't feel like waiting until she gets back :P | 16:29 |
| jospoortvliet | jaem: well, if you feel up to compiling it and all - some have provided packages but it's not a regular effort... | 16:29 |
| jospoortvliet | rmt: it IS related, come on guys, maemo & KDE are close friends ;-) | 16:29 |
| jaem | rmt, well, KDE and Maemo have some loose ties at any rate, so I think "spamming" is a bit harsh | 16:29 |
| jospoortvliet | come to think of it, maemo is mentioned in the feature guide. | 16:29 |
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| jospoortvliet | cookies for who finds it... | 16:29 |
| jaem | jospoortvliet, already found it | 16:29 |
| jospoortvliet | darn | 16:30 |
| jospoortvliet | that was fast | 16:30 |
| jospoortvliet | lol | 16:30 |
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| jaem | a few hours before said guide was released :P | 16:30 |
| TheShader | hey | 16:30 |
| jaem | it made me happy | 16:30 |
| jospoortvliet | lol | 16:30 |
| jaem | jospoortvliet, (re: Mobile shell), that's what I was wondering | 16:30 |
| jaem | I just didn't want to check it out from Playground and mess around with it only to find out it was horribly broken | 16:30 |
| TheShader | I installed the n900 SDK just to see how the maemo 5 OS is... I can't find the xterm in the gui of the maemo OS... Can't I access the terminal in the SDK? help anyone? | 16:31 |
| jospoortvliet | jaem: the situation is simple: there is nothing official, no team really dedicated to this - but all of KDE software is build on Qt, runs on any linux, and there WILL be efforts starting today to get a good KDE plasma workspace on mobile devices. | 16:31 |
| jospoortvliet | Maemo has a good chance of being the primary development OS. | 16:31 |
| jaem | jospoortvliet, yeah, that's what I figured | 16:32 |
| jospoortvliet | Cool. | 16:32 |
| jaem | I was just asking about the state of the code | 16:32 |
| jaem | but good to know | 16:32 |
| frals | TheShader: apt-get install osso-xterm, iirc | 16:32 |
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| koala_man | speaking of which, is there a virtual package for installing all the stuff that a fresh N900 comes with? | 16:32 |
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| TheShader | thanks,, I'll try that | 16:33 |
| jaem | koala_man, whatever the metapackage that HAM shows as "Maemo 5" for SSU updates is called ,presumably | 16:33 |
| jaem | I'm not actually sure what it is called, though, since HAM gives the pretty names for things | 16:33 |
| TheShader | hey frals where should I enter that command, in the scratchbox right? | 16:33 |
| frals | yeah | 16:34 |
| TheShader | in the armel or x86? | 16:34 |
| frals | depends on in which target you want it i assume | 16:34 |
| frals | <- dont really know the sdk env that well | 16:35 |
| koala_man | TheShader: the x86 one | 16:35 |
| frals | im sure someone else in here does though *looks around* | 16:35 |
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| TheShader | kk thanks alot | 16:35 |
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| Shapeshifter | I've written a small app in C which I compiled in scratchbox and which is running smoothly. But if I copy over the binary to my n900 and want to launch it using run-standalon (or without that), it says "line 1: syntax error: "(" unexpecte | 16:38 |
| Shapeshifter | d | 16:38 |
| Shapeshifter | which is rather confusing, as this is a binary. | 16:38 |
| Shapeshifter | why would it check syntax and stuff | 16:38 |
| mgedmin | how exactly are you running it? | 16:38 |
| mgedmin | what's the binary called? | 16:39 |
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| Shapeshifter | cd loungecontrol; run-standalone.sh ./iculounge | 16:39 |
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| thorbjorn | Shapeshifter: Probably the binary has the wrong architecture. | 16:39 |
| mgedmin | what does "file iculounge" say? | 16:40 |
| Shapeshifter | thorbjorn: ahh, right! | 16:40 |
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| Shapeshifter | umm, file: not found. I guess I need to install file. | 16:40 |
| Shapeshifter | so, right. I need to compile it for ARM. >.< | 16:40 |
| aziwoqpd | "sb-conf se FREMANTLE_ARMEL" in scratchbox before compiling | 16:41 |
| Shapeshifter | thanks. | 16:41 |
| * w00t hugs MADDE tightly. | 16:41 | |
| tybollt | madde is a girls name in .se | 16:42 |
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| jaem|away | tybollt, pronunciation? | 16:43 |
| jaem|away | for the Maemo tool and the name, if you know both | 16:43 |
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| TheShader | I installed the n900 SDK to see maemo 5... I installed xterm for it but can't get root access by typing "sudo gainroot" it returns me "must be setuid root". so what should I do? | 16:45 |
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| inz | You don't need root in scratchbox | 16:46 |
| TheShader | the user on maemo(scratchbox) doesn't have root priviledges? | 16:46 |
| TheShader | but I can't install nano for maemo | 16:46 |
| tybollt | jaem|away: sorry don't speak phonetic | 16:46 |
| inz | Theshader, use fakeroot | 16:46 |
| TheShader | sudo apt-get install nano, or apt-get install nano | 16:46 |
| Shapeshifter | yeah it works now. I simply forgot to compile for ARM. thanks guys. | 16:47 |
| jaem|away | tybollt, fake it - I don't either | 16:47 |
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| tybollt | jaem|away: Madde is pronounced [::!#"&=)!="#);LFEWKO=!"#R?=3f::] | 16:48 |
| TheShader | ok.... fakeroot on maemo | 16:48 |
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| jaem|away | tybollt, that was a little more fake than I was hoping for, but fair enough | 16:48 |
| TheShader | ah I got an error | 16:48 |
| tybollt | jaem|away: :-D | 16:48 |
| TheShader | 4 programs not found on PATH | 16:48 |
| TheShader | what is PATH? lol :D | 16:48 |
| jaem|away | TheShader, PATH is a shell environment variable that tells the shell where to look for programs that you don't refer to by their full path | 16:49 |
| jaem|away | run echo $PATH | 16:49 |
| jaem|away | to see what it is currently | 16:49 |
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| jaem|away | or export PATH=$PATH:/something/else to add to it | 16:49 |
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| jaem|away | beyond that, Google "bash environment variable", or some such | 16:50 |
| jaem|away | essentially, if you type in "qmake" as opposed to /opt/qt4-maemo5/bin/qmake, then it doesn't know where to find the program | 16:50 |
| jaem|away | unless /opt/qt4-maemo5/bin is in the PATH | 16:50 |
| jaem|away | it's more or less the same on Windows, actually | 16:50 |
| TheShader | hehe I know less in windows | 16:52 |
| TheShader | cause it doesn't belong to me, but this thind does so at least I can learn | 16:52 |
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| Shapeshifter | mh, so my app segfaults on the n900, but not in scratchbox. I'm installing gdb. Are there any specifics to look out for? my app uses curl and segfaults when it should do something using curl. | 17:03 |
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| mgedmin | unaligned memory access? | 17:06 |
| mgedmin | what does OMAP3 do in that case? | 17:07 |
| torindel | Shapeshifter: dont forget to compile it with -g -O0 | 17:07 |
| torindel | (your app_ | 17:07 |
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| w00t | mgedmin: it doesn't like it, I believe | 17:07 |
| mgedmin | there was a switch in /proc on a n800, IIRC, and you could choose segfault, emulation or silent data corruption (default) | 17:07 |
| w00t | but I haven't actually checked | 17:07 |
| crashanddie | thoughts? http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4343015069/sizes/l/ | 17:07 |
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| Shapeshifter | torindel: mhh, okay. | 17:08 |
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| sjaensch | hi again | 17:08 |
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| sjaensch | just wanted to let you know that something is wrong with new user registrations | 17:09 |
| mgedmin | for garage? | 17:09 |
| sjaensch | I just registered the account "testreg" and confirmed the email address | 17:09 |
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| sjaensch | login on garage.maemo.org works, but not on maemo.org. | 17:09 |
| sjaensch | even though I started the registration process on maemo.org | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | afaiu the user database is not synchronized instantly | 17:10 |
| X-Fade | sjaensch: takes up to an hour to be synced. | 17:10 |
| w00t | ^ | 17:10 |
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| sjaensch | mgedmin: ah, thanks for telling me. That account can be deleted btw ;) | 17:10 |
| mgedmin | maybe new servers are less loaded and could do it more often? | 17:10 |
| * mgedmin <- innocent bystander with no access to maemo servers | 17:10 | |
| sjaensch | might be a good idea, since it's weird that people register for maemo.org, but the account doesn't seem to work there (at first) | 17:11 |
| tybollt | maemo servers? | 17:12 |
| tybollt | hmm | 17:12 |
| tybollt | Maemo Servers edition | 17:12 |
| X-Fade | sjaensch: It does say that clearly when regisering. | 17:12 |
| tybollt | now we're talking | 17:12 |
| X-Fade | sjaensch: even when login doesn't work ;) | 17:12 |
| mgedmin | "if it's clearly documented, then it's not a bug" | 17:12 |
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| sjaensch | X-Fade: where? I must have missed that | 17:12 |
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| X-Fade | sjaensch: login with random name an wrong password. | 17:13 |
| crashanddie | mgedmin: if it's documented, specified, and explained it's not a priority | 17:14 |
| X-Fade | sjaensch: 'Note to new users' :) | 17:14 |
| sjaensch | X-Fade: oh you're right, I did indeed miss that. | 17:14 |
| * mgedmin prefers the phrasing "we would like to fix it, but we have a lot of more important things to do first" | 17:15 | |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, pong? | 17:15 |
| mgedmin | incidentally, I have a couple of year-old patches for irclogs2html to apply... | 17:15 |
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| pupnik | i met martin guy, who turns out to be really knowledgeable about arm, debian, eabi | 17:16 |
| pupnik | looks like some of this stuff went into sbox | 17:17 |
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| anidel | I can see the Archos 5 Internet Tablet running with Maemo :D | 17:24 |
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| hrw | anidel: I saw archos7 running OE | 17:31 |
| hrw | derived distro | 17:31 |
| hrw | pupnik: Martin Guy - I met him too. nice guy, lot of knowledge | 17:32 |
| tybollt | yeah that's the guy *cringe* | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | anidel: hmm? | 17:32 |
| crashanddie | "Why cant i play music whilst on a call?" | 17:33 |
| * crashanddie facepalsm | 17:33 | |
| * crashanddie typo-fails | 17:33 | |
| crashanddie | face psalm! | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because there's not enough CPU power to handle the MP3 decoding and the GSM decoding, clearly! | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/decoding/encoding/2 | 17:34 |
| pupnik | http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort | 17:35 |
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| anidel | Stskeeps, almost same hardware.. | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | anidel: well, omap3 or omap2? | 17:37 |
| anidel | Stskeeps, Cortex-A8 | 17:37 |
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| Stskeeps | ah | 17:37 |
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| anidel | Stskeeps, but 128Mb of RAM.. shame.. same 800x480, 3D chipset (no idea which one) but bigger screen | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | anidel, it's an OMAP3. | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | anidel, the 3D chipset is the EASIEST THING TO GUESS. :P | 17:38 |
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| anidel | GeneralAntilles, touche' | 17:39 |
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| Damion2 | GeneralAntilles: one of the non nokia provided media players I had on the 9300, maybe oggplay used to play mp3s whilst on a call, and the caller could hear it | 17:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damion2, sorry, I'm just being sarcastic. ;) | 17:39 |
| anidel | shame it mounts a drive though.. | 17:39 |
| Damion2 | oh, it's a perfectly normal thing to ask, why the face palm ? | 17:40 |
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| Damion2 | pulseaudio should permit it too I guess | 17:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, it's certainly doable | 17:41 |
| luke-jr | anidel: you forget the legal aspect; Nokia apparently will not license Maemo to third party products | 17:41 |
| luke-jr | as far as Mer, it wouldn't need the same hardware anyway :P | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's just not setup that way since most the Nokia designers assumed (correctly) that most people don't want to listen to music while on a call. | 17:42 |
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| Corsac | luke-jr: well, I'm not so sure about that | 17:47 |
| Corsac | luke-jr: the recently published guide looks like they intend to | 17:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I can see it either way. | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Either they try to do apple - and maintain control of the software and hardware | 17:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Or they go the IBM route, and license the software while still trying to provide a compelling hardware solution | 17:50 |
| cehteh | whats worse for the battery, keeping it always full by leaving it plugged in or cycling it 1-2 times a day? | 17:50 |
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| tybollt | ibm had a compelling hardware solution | 17:50 |
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| tybollt | they sold it to big (china) monneh | 17:51 |
| Corsac | yeah :/ | 17:51 |
| * Corsac cries | 17:51 | |
| * tybollt cries | 17:51 | |
| * w00t cries | 17:51 | |
| Corsac | (but I still love my T61) | 17:51 |
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| tybollt | Corsac: last thinkpad I bought - entirely lenovo, no hints of IBM left - SL300 is so poor bad shitty I'd actually go for an acer if I had the chance today ;) | 17:52 |
| Corsac | SL300 is not a thinkpad | 17:52 |
| tybollt | I agree! | 17:52 |
| pupnik | try playing stuff with zoutube, then switching to other apps, like media player. you will see sprinkles of the zoutube video displayed behind the other app | 17:52 |
| Corsac | it's renamed ideapad | 17:52 |
| tybollt | Corsac++ | 17:52 |
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| tybollt | Corsac: I got it over the T400 on account of it including free 3G built in | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: that's due to overlaying | 17:52 |
| Corsac | tybollt: it's not an opinion, it's facts, there's nothing common (in the inside) between thinkpads and ideapads | 17:52 |
| tybollt | but meh :( | 17:52 |
| Corsac | tybollt: arg. | 17:52 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik: this is why media player pauses video when you switch away :) | 17:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://lenta.ru/news/2010/02/08/battleship/ | 17:53 |
| * SpeedEvil has the x60s. | 17:53 | |
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| SpeedEvil | I love it. | 17:53 |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: ah. some odd error | 17:53 |
| tybollt | yes I have the X60 at home | 17:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: I can't beleive it | 17:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | I wish they kept making 4:3 | 17:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: no f*cking way :) | 17:53 |
| tybollt | Corsac: mind I used to think that getting "thinkpad" got you a thinkpad... but not so anymore... Caveat emptor! | 17:53 |
| tybollt | well | 17:53 |
| tybollt | I had the X200 at my last employer | 17:53 |
| * tybollt <3 | 17:54 | |
| Corsac | yeah, i would accept an x200s :) | 17:54 |
| luke-jr | I never liked Thinkpads | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | thinkpad is/was an example of compelling hardware | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | to some anyway | 17:54 |
| tybollt | indeed | 17:54 |
| luke-jr | they always broke so quickly | 17:54 |
| luke-jr | backlight went out, then HD a few months later | 17:55 |
| * mgedmin loves thinkpads | 17:55 | |
| * tybollt still think the keyboard light in the top of the lid is the finest piece of engineering imaginable :) | 17:55 | |
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| mgedmin | strangely, mine die very soon after I've replaced them with a newer thinkpad and given the old one to a coworker | 17:55 |
| * pupnik is not regretting buying a keyboard with trackpoint for the desktop | 17:56 | |
| niekt0 | me enjoys x60, 3 years without problem | 17:56 |
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| pupnik | great looking too, those x60s | 17:56 |
| * mgedmin would kill for a wireless keyboard with a trackpoint ... | 17:57 | |
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| pupnik | i never saw any ps2 to bluetooth adapters mgedmin | 17:57 |
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| tybollt | mgedmin: get wireless usb hub | 17:58 |
| tybollt | mgedmin: regular ibm kbd /w trackie -> wifi usb hub -> WIN | 17:58 |
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| mgedmin | and I carry around *two* devices tied with a wire? | 17:59 |
| pupnik | doesn't get rid of cables. but i'd be curious to see any usb wifi | 17:59 |
| mgedmin | kinda defeats the point | 17:59 |
| pupnik | heh | 17:59 |
| tybollt | oh | 17:59 |
| * mgedmin needs keyboard + mouse to control his TV, which is just a big monitor attached to an asus eeepc | 17:59 | |
| tybollt | I thought this was about being too far from the screen, heh ;P | 17:59 |
| pupnik | there are some trackball variants | 17:59 |
| tybollt | mgedmin: you want the logitech kbd, the dinovo mini | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | there are some keyboards with integrated touchpads | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | haven't seen any in any local computer shop | 18:00 |
| tybollt | mgedmin: dinovo mini!!! | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | or in any local online shop | 18:00 |
| pupnik | no trackpoint | 18:01 |
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| tybollt | dinovo mini!!!! fer crying out loud | 18:01 |
| tybollt | I've been using that for couple of year for my HTPC now, awesome shitz | 18:01 |
| mgedmin | and I kinda assume no foreing shop will want to ship electronics into this unheard-of-third-world-EU-country called Lithuania | 18:01 |
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| mgedmin | also, sadly my eeepc has no bluetooth | 18:01 |
| mgedmin | I've got an external dongle that doesn't work well | 18:01 |
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| mgedmin | trying bluemaemo with it was utter FAIL | 18:02 |
| tybollt | mgedmin: .se ships to latvia - no? | 18:03 |
| mgedmin | dunno, never tried to ship anything to latvia | 18:03 |
| mgedmin | amazon doesn't | 18:03 |
| mgedmin | amazon ships books and dvds, not electronics | 18:03 |
| tybollt | ehr | 18:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, long term I see them licensing, but not short term. | 18:03 |
| tybollt | lithuania - sorry =) | 18:03 |
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| * tybollt consistently mix up those two (lithuania and latvia :S) | 18:04 | |
| mgedmin | in alphabetical order from north to south | 18:04 |
| hrw | mgedmin: buy PS3 bluetooth remote instead of keyboard+mouse? | 18:04 |
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| mgedmin | bluemaemo would suffice, if it *WORKED* | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | tried it with my thinkpad that has integrated bluetooth -> kinda works for a while, then stops | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | bluetooth is the worst tech I've ever had the misfortune to attempt to use | 18:05 |
| tybollt | hmm yeah | 18:06 |
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| tybollt | it's hard to tell if bluetooth is a shitty tech or if it is just a bunch of REALLY crappy engineers implementing support for it? :) | 18:06 |
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| ShadowJK | In my experience CSR - CSR is the most reliable | 18:13 |
| ShadowJK | ISSC is garbage, Ti is crap, and broadcom us usable. (in my experience) | 18:14 |
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| Arkenoi | huge mugen battery is fail. just 2400mAh (i expected 3000 at least), ugly back door, no stand, always open camera and damn overpriced :-( | 18:19 |
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| cehteh | uhm do they offer a standard sized too? | 18:20 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 18:20 |
| X-Fade | Arkenoi: Just buy another battery for a few $ and have twice the capacity ;) | 18:20 |
| cehteh | and how does the camera slide switch work? | 18:20 |
| hrw | Arkenoi: url? | 18:20 |
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| ShadowJK | the standard size "1800mAh" battery is about 1200mAh | 18:21 |
| Arkenoi | http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html | 18:21 |
| tybollt | Arkenoi: ah it is that much bigger then? Perhaps naive I expected _same_ form factor :S | 18:21 |
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| Arkenoi | i am not going to buy that crap :-( | 18:21 |
| ShadowJK | oh, N900 | 18:21 |
| cehteh | 1600-1800 (but real, not marketing mah) would be nice | 18:21 |
| ShadowJK | the 1800mAh "normal" size for N800 was 1200mAh real | 18:22 |
| cehteh | yeah | 18:22 |
| hrw | insane size | 18:22 |
| ShadowJK | would be interesting to see if that's 2400 real or marketing | 18:22 |
| Arkenoi | ShadowJK, they are targeted at poor 5800 users who cannot measure battery capacity on the phone itself ;-) | 18:22 |
| tybollt | ? | 18:23 |
| tybollt | powertop is available for n900 now?= | 18:23 |
| cehteh | well how does it work without camera switch? | 18:23 |
| cehteh | tybollt: it always was .. extras-devel or so | 18:23 |
| ShadowJK | Arkenoi: you know that the design capacity figure is reported by the battery itself, and not checked by the device, right? :-) | 18:23 |
| tybollt | cehteh: :S | 18:24 |
| tybollt | cehteh: NOW you tell me | 18:24 |
| cehteh | Arkenoi: 'draft photo' thats only a mockup anyways | 18:24 |
| ShadowJK | But really, if they claim more capacity in the same space as Nokia's battery, then you know it's marketing inflation :-) | 18:24 |
| tybollt | ? | 18:25 |
| tybollt | why | 18:25 |
| * Arkenoi wonders why such a ridiculous price - e90 battery (3600mAh) was about $50 | 18:25 | |
| ShadowJK | powertop came preinstalled on my N900, first production firmware. It's not included in firmwarre images though | 18:25 |
| tybollt | it's entirely plausible , if not expected, tyhat nokia marketeers make the company ship weak batteries so that the users have a reason to upgrade to N910 w/ the better battery etc... | 18:25 |
| thresh | Arkenoi: wait, the extended batter is that ugly stuff aside n900? | 18:26 |
| * tybollt used all the SE P* phones | 18:26 | |
| cehteh | Arkenoi: because they think everyone wants one | 18:26 |
| tybollt | w/ those it was _exactly_ like that | 18:26 |
| thresh | complete failure | 18:26 |
| ShadowJK | Arkenoi: custom sizes mean tiny production runs which further brings up the cost :/ | 18:26 |
| pupnik | i really need 3 batteries to get through a day without charger | 18:26 |
| Arkenoi | cehteh, not *that* one ;-) | 18:26 |
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| pupnik | oh look, pandora has a 4200 mAh battery... | 18:27 |
| Arkenoi | ShadowJK, i've got the impression n900 is far more popular than e90 | 18:27 |
| * tybollt hands pupnik a rucksack to carry that extended battery+phone in | 18:27 | |
| tybollt | pupnik: url?? | 18:27 |
| pupnik | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_%28console%29 | 18:28 |
| tybollt | oh wait | 18:28 |
| tybollt | pandora isat the gaming device? | 18:28 |
| ShadowJK | Arkenoi: yeah but there's a few magnitude difference between how many devices are sold and how many people even buy a replacement battery, let alone a bigger one :) | 18:28 |
| * cehteh thinks about a pack of eneloops, a linear regulator (yes it sux, i dont care) providing power to the usb port | 18:28 | |
| SpeedEvil | I have a battery that will last 3 weeks of constant use. | 18:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Portable. | 18:29 |
| cehteh | or even better anyone figured out what electronic are in the charge adapter which is in the box? | 18:29 |
| pupnik | in your car? | 18:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course - it is a car battery with a 5V USB reg pinned to it | 18:29 |
| pupnik | :) | 18:29 |
| SpeedEvil | used for GPS testing | 18:29 |
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| ShadowJK | cehteh: I'd imagine a tekkeon 1550 would also work with a data-shorted cable | 18:30 |
| * Arkenoi finished angry birds with 3-stars results | 18:30 | |
| cehteh | mhm a 4pack nimh gives 4.8V .. bit more when fresh charged .. i wonder if that can be used without any regulator | 18:31 |
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| ShadowJK | 8 pack with the guts of DC-6 or DC-10? :-) | 18:31 |
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| mgedmin | it's nice to be kicked out of work at 6pm | 18:32 |
| cehteh | DC/DC adapters are so expensive .. and have a lot of ripple | 18:32 |
| ShadowJK | by the amount of sound the charge adapter makes, I'd imagine its output isnt that clean :) | 18:34 |
| cehteh | huh ... mine is silent | 18:34 |
| ShadowJK | the charge adapter is probably a step-down buck converter | 18:34 |
| cehteh | (or the music is too loud :P) | 18:34 |
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| pupnik | tried that 4-pack without regulator cehteh - didn't work | 18:34 |
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| ShadowJK | pupnik: cable with datapins shorted? | 18:34 |
| cehteh | pupnik: with shortened data pins? | 18:34 |
| pupnik | oh no | 18:34 |
| cehteh | :] | 18:35 |
| pupnik | through the adapter from nokia | 18:35 |
| pupnik | maybe that shorts them | 18:35 |
| cehteh | prolly yes but it might also do some magic | 18:35 |
| cehteh | aka having under and over voltage and current protection | 18:35 |
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| ShadowJK | ah, the adapter, if it's compliant with the 2mm charging spec, needs 5.6V or so | 18:35 |
| cehteh | anyone here wanted to look inside it .. cant remember who | 18:35 |
| cehteh | try with a 5pack :) | 18:36 |
| ShadowJK | if it starts smelling you know it's going to melt :) | 18:36 |
| cehteh | yeah and tell us what melted .. the adapter or the n900 :) | 18:37 |
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| cehteh | http://www.bumm.de/docu/361e.htm << damn expensive | 18:38 |
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| ShadowJK | lol | 18:41 |
| * ShadowJK ponders n900 extended battery... | 18:43 | |
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| ShadowJK | I wonder if the post would pass it via customs... the threshold is at 48E :/ | 18:43 |
| pupnik | i heard of some company making extended larger battery with replacement cover | 18:43 |
| RichiH | can the n900 function as a usb host? | 18:43 |
| pupnik | no | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | no | 18:44 |
| RichiH | ShadowJK: there is an extended battery? seriously? | 18:44 |
| RichiH | bleh, huge pity | 18:44 |
| RichiH | it would be an awesome serial control terminal | 18:44 |
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| cehteh | pupnik: mugen batteries see above | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | Yes, mugen has one, the draft picture looks like it doubles thickness | 18:45 |
| dazo | RichiH: I believe you can do that via bluetooth | 18:45 |
| ShadowJK | s/has one/will have one/ | 18:45 |
| infobot | ShadowJK meant: Yes, mugen will have one, the draft picture looks like it doubles thickness | 18:45 |
| pupnik | ahh i see | 18:45 |
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| RichiH | dazo: not an option for me, really | 18:46 |
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| RichiH | ShadowJK: do you have a link to that? | 18:47 |
| RichiH | dazo: the adapter would need its own battery | 18:47 |
| RichiH | which would suck | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | <Arkenoi> http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html | 18:47 |
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| RichiH | ta | 18:49 |
| range | ShadowJK: YIKES! | 18:49 |
| Shapeshifter | which package contains make? or better: how can apt tell me which package contains a file? | 18:50 |
| ShadowJK | This battery might be able to last 7 hours streaming mp3 over edge... I'm kinda tempted | 18:50 |
| ShadowJK | apt-cache search make | 18:50 |
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| Shapeshifter | ShadowJK: thanks | 18:53 |
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| cehteh | pupnik: http://www.nokiausers.net/General/N97-Charging-Warning-Beware-of-Using-Supplied-CA-146C-with-Old-Style-Nokia-Charger.html | 18:55 |
| cehteh | yay :) | 18:55 |
| pupnik | interesting | 18:56 |
| mgedmin | whoa | 18:57 |
| xorAxAx | hehe | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | same one as in n900 package, isn't it? | 18:57 |
| cehteh | yeah | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | i only use that one in the car anyway :P | 18:57 |
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| cehteh | well i note that the adapter melts, and not the phone .. imo a good thing | 18:57 |
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| * cehteh will prolly use that to charge from bike dynamo, should treat the power in a safe way | 18:58 | |
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| ShadowJK | I use mine in the car too. A proper car charger arriving soon though | 18:58 |
| lbt_ | ooh : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10625082&pnum=0 | 18:58 |
| ShadowJK | that adapter reduces the charge rate alot | 18:59 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt_: well, that's why it should be tamper-free :P | 19:00 |
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| lbt_ | tamper-proof? | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | er, yeah | 19:00 |
| * Stskeeps is tired | 19:00 | |
| lbt_ | hmm, insert some nice alpha-particle emitting stuff inside the chip | 19:01 |
| lbt_ | what could possibly go wrong? | 19:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Catorise enhancement requests are hilariously inane. | 19:24 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: most of them are rather hildon-desktop ones? | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or just silly. | 19:25 |
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| * MohammadAG wonders if Maemo 6 is going to be allowed (officially) on the N900 | 19:28 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, allowed? | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | anyone read the 71 page thread? | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | ported* w/e word you want to use :) | 19:29 |
| MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, any official reply from Nokia? | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | No idea. | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | The only thing close to "official" was the N-Series VP saying that they "couldn't" do it due to the N900 not having multitouch. | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | lame excuse imo | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | oh well, there's always mer | 19:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | There've been rumors that it will actually be backported. | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | My gut feeling is that they haven't finalized a decision yet. | 19:31 |
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| MohammadAG | well allowing it will certainly limit devs | 19:32 |
| tripzero | MohammadAG, In theory, there's no reason why the n900 wouldn't be able to run maemo 6 | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | or force them to create multi-type inputs | 19:32 |
| * GeneralAntilles finds the whole capacitive thing impossible to stomach. | 19:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Sadly Maemo 6 may end my association with this platform. | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | i hate capacitive | 19:32 |
| tripzero | GeneralAntilles, why? | 19:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, minus Nokia requiring two fingers on screen for all operations. | 19:32 |
| tripzero | i doubt it will require two fingers on the screen | 19:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, because capacitive sucks, it's basically a marketing ploy, and I hate that they're deciding to jettison most of their existing customer base by moving to it. | 19:33 |
| MohammadAG | well then it should work on the N900 | 19:33 |
| tripzero | multi-touch comes from multi-input in X doesn't it? | 19:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, it comes from hardware. :) | 19:33 |
| tripzero | well, the TS tech has to support it | 19:33 |
| tripzero | but on a software level, it's all xinput | 19:33 |
| * Stskeeps stands by his 'SDK' argument that a UI developer has to be braindead to make a multitouch-only UI on a single-touch (mouse) SDK | 19:33 | |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, I'm not sure I see your point. | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, this is Nokia. :) | 19:34 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: connect 2 mouses, configure and you have multitouch | 19:34 |
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| Stskeeps | hrw: right, but still | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | UI decisions are made 50% by marketing. | 19:34 |
| MohammadAG | lol hrw | 19:34 |
| cehteh | recent xorg supports multiple pointers | 19:34 |
| tripzero | the point is, multitouch is backwards compatible with single touch | 19:34 |
| MohammadAG | i doubt the human brain would coordinate it well hrw | 19:34 |
| Corsac | hmmh, not sure multitouch is really useful except in few corner cases (but then you might really find it useful, I guess). But what I guess i'd like with capacitive is that it only require contact and not pressure | 19:35 |
| hrw | GeneralAntilles: 40% by management and no place left for designer | 19:35 |
| Lumpio- | But... but... | 19:35 |
| Lumpio- | Multitouch is TEH FUTURE! | 19:35 |
| Corsac | though I never really used a capacitive display | 19:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, erm? Not if the software only provides multitouch interfaces to certain functions. | 19:35 |
| Lumpio- | It's almost like Minority Report! | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG | i like pressure on a screen | 19:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, capacitive sucks. | 19:35 |
| greenfly | every time I see someone use the multitouch stretch gesture to zoom out an image, it just reminds me of goatse | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG | gliding your finger on the screen is impossible on capacitive | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Multitouch is mostly a gimmick | 19:36 |
| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: do you have something backing up your claim? :) | 19:36 |
| lcuk | actually GeneralAntilles there is at least one very very useful thing for multitouch | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's generally quite awkward to use two fingers on a mobile device with any sort of usefulness. | 19:36 |
| lcuk | keyboards | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, rather extensive experience with both types of displays. | 19:36 |
| Corsac | (I can't really compare capacitive to resistive since I barely used capacitive, but I think I like the fact it doesn't require keyboard | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG | virtual keyboards? | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, meh, I did just fine with the keyboard on the N800. | 19:36 |
| cehteh | hey seen on /. today .. pressure sensitive touchscreens! | 19:36 |
| Corsac | rah | 19:36 |
| Corsac | s/keyboard/pressure/ | 19:37 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, im not saying you werent | 19:37 |
| w00t | oh dear | 19:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I find the iPhone's keyboard significantly less usable. | 19:37 |
| lcuk | but lots of people still crossover their letters when typing with 2 hands | 19:37 |
| lcuk | i agree, im merely pointing it out | 19:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, speaking more seriously, capacitive is less precise. | 19:37 |
| MohammadAG | i wonder if the next maemo device will have a keyboard | 19:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, which is a big problem at ~260ppi | 19:37 |
| tripzero | i wish i only needed one hand to use my keyboard | 19:37 |
| lcuk | its very nearly manageable - even using the multitouch fakey thing i did | 19:37 |
| lcuk | but its something to consider | 19:37 |
| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: because of the finger nail vs. finger tip? | 19:38 |
| frals | gah, almost brought the wrong n900 with me when going to the store | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, no, capacitive is just less precise. | 19:38 |
| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: or because of the tech? | 19:38 |
| frals | need to put some visual aid on which is the one im suppose to bring and which one isnt :< | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, the technology is incapable of reaching the sort of precision that resistive does. | 19:38 |
| tripzero | resistive is no better in terms of precision | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Input device does have an effect, but it's more a factor of the type of tech. | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, yes it is. | 19:39 |
| tripzero | unless you use a stylus | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, the term you're looking for is "accuracy". | 19:39 |
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| lcuk | i was using a HP multitouch monitor the other day | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Resistive is significantly more precise | 19:39 |
| lcuk | it supported MT and stylus | 19:39 |
| Corsac | MT? | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | See the capacitive "styluses" that they're manufacturing now. | 19:39 |
| lcuk | didnt seem too imprecise to me | 19:39 |
| lcuk | errr other day == december | 19:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, try using an iPhone. | 19:40 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i was using my n900 stylus | 19:40 |
| tripzero | GeneralAntilles, nope, I mean precision: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision | 19:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, then you're incorrect. | 19:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, the input device is not a factor in the relative precision of the technology. :) | 19:40 |
| Corsac | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Accuracy_and_precision.svg | 19:41 |
| tripzero | go press your finger on a resistive touchscreen adn then go press your finger on a capacitive touchscreen and tell me which is more precise | 19:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, you're doing it wrong. | 19:41 |
| luke-jr | screw touchscreens; just give me a nub mouse | 19:41 |
| tripzero | i'm not going to use my finger nail | 19:41 |
| * GeneralAntilles can see he's not going to get anywhere with this discussion. | 19:41 | |
| tripzero | it's retarded | 19:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, that's a personal problem. | 19:41 |
| luke-jr | tripzero: use a stylus | 19:41 |
| tripzero | GeneralAntilles, so is not liking multitouch | 19:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, and, again, the input device doesn't have anything to do with precision. | 19:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, capacitive is simply not capable of being as precise as resistive. | 19:42 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.concepting.cambridge.jlp.20091215_014.jpg drooly | 19:42 |
| * Arkenoi wants a really good keyboard. /me fucking HATES the idea "there is too little space for keyboard so let's do it real crap as nobody cares!" | 19:42 | |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi++ | 19:42 |
| tripzero | um, a touchscreen is an input device | 19:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Arkenoi, the idea is that they wanted to keep your fingers as close to the display as possible. | 19:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, input implement. Finger/stylus/etc. | 19:43 |
| tripzero | luke-jr, i don't want to use a stylus in my car, which is the primary place i use the touchscreen | 19:43 |
| ifreq | d | 19:43 |
| lcuk | sharpen your fingers | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arkenoi, a 4-row keyboard moves your fingers away from the touchscreen. | 19:43 |
| tripzero | haha | 19:43 |
| luke-jr | tripzero: wtf are you doing using 2 fingers on a touchscreen in a car?? | 19:43 |
| Arkenoi | GeneralAntilles, that was bad idea anyways | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arkenoi, I disagree. | 19:43 |
| tripzero | luke-jr, i'm not using 2 fingers? | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arkenoi, personally I find it quite helpful. | 19:43 |
| luke-jr | tripzero: that is the only benefit of capacitive | 19:44 |
| tripzero | well, not having to press so hard is a benefit as well | 19:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | tripzero, nah, that's a personal preference. | 19:44 |
| tripzero | that and flicking gestures are easier | 19:44 |
| * lcuk sits back o nthe capacitive fence, i just want something i can have my stylus with | 19:44 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, then capacitive aint it. | 19:44 |
| ToiletOil | jesus, please not a resistive vs capacitive discussion | 19:44 |
| johnsu01 | So, the other day when I looked, I swear there was a package listed that said "Maemo 5" which was not installed. I did not install it after it told me that I should back everything up and reboot, but now it's not showing up anymore. | 19:44 |
| lcuk | if i can have it on capacitive fine, if not i dont rly car | 19:44 |
| luke-jr | press hard? what? | 19:44 |
| luke-jr | I've never had to press | 19:44 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i just said, that screen i posted was multitouch and could work with stylus | 19:45 |
| lcuk | my normal n900 stylus | 19:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, you can have a stylus with capacitive, but it'll only ever be as precise as your finger tip. | 19:45 |
| lcuk | best of both | 19:45 |
| johnsu01 | I'm also curious about what the reasoning is for why dist-upgrade is disrecommended | 19:45 |
| tripzero | luke-jr, you never have to press your touchscreen? does it work on brain waves? | 19:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, then it wasn't capacitive. :) | 19:45 |
| tripzero | ;_ | 19:45 |
| tripzero | :P | 19:45 |
| luke-jr | tripzero: I just touch it. | 19:45 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i cannot use my stylus on an iphone | 19:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it was either capacitive/resistive hybrid or Stantum. :) | 19:45 |
| lcuk | how else could it be multitouch | 19:45 |
| Arkenoi | general: operating touch screen with thumbs while holding the device with both hands is *not* good anyways, so the compromise is pointless | 19:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Arkenoi, er? | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arkenoi, I have no issue here. | 19:46 |
| uhsf | the pointer pad, or whatever it is called, is the thing that i miss the most on the n900. it was a bad decision to remove it from previous n800 | 19:46 |
| tripzero | luke-jr, you have to press it harder than you would press a capacitive touchscreen. That's why it's called "resistive", it works by applying pressure to the layers in the ts | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Arkenoi, in fact, that's how I ALWAYS use the device. | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | uhsf, dpad | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | uhsf, there's one on the keyboard. | 19:46 |
| luke-jr | tripzero: the pressure needed is so insignificant, I don't notice I'm pressing | 19:46 |
| lcuk | HP touchsmart 300-1025UK - can someone dig and find what kind of screen it has | 19:47 |
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| tripzero | luke-jr, then it's probably a decent touchscreen :) | 19:47 |
| uhsf | GeneralAntilles: can you please enlighten me about where exactly a dpad is located on the keyboard of my nokia n900? | 19:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | uhsf, the arrow keys in the bottom right. | 19:48 |
| Arkenoi | i ususally hold it with one hand and use index finger of another | 19:48 |
| uhsf | ok but these do not move a cursor | 19:48 |
| ToiletOil | I haven't yet gotten mah n900, and I'm dreading trying to fit in all arrowkeys, as well as scandinavias signs | 19:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | uhsf, er, nor did the N800's. | 19:48 |
| ToiletOil | it's one key short | 19:48 |
| MohammadAG | uhsf what cursor? | 19:49 |
| MohammadAG | the arrow keys don't move the cursor on a PC | 19:49 |
| anidel | what? | 19:49 |
| ToiletOil | can you move the in-browser cursor with arrow keys? | 19:49 |
| anidel | in my Editor that's what I use.. also on the N900.. | 19:49 |
| anidel | ahhh in-browser one.. | 19:50 |
| anidel | but to enter text ? | 19:50 |
| uhsf | MohammadAG: the cursor i make visible by changing /usr/share/icons/default/transp | 19:50 |
| anidel | I'm confused.. shouldn't jump in the discussion likethat :) | 19:50 |
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| anidel | are you guys talking about the Mouse Pointer? | 19:50 |
| ToiletOil | uhsf: if you made the cursor visible, you should also be capable of making it respond to arrowkey presses | 19:50 |
| MohammadAG | uhsf again, arrows don't move the cursor on a pc | 19:50 |
| uhsf | MohammadAG: and we were talking about a dpad, i know arrows don't move cursor on a pc | 19:51 |
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| MohammadAG | thanks for the location of the file though | 19:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | uhsf, the dpad is just arrow keys. . . . | 19:51 |
| lcuk | isnt there some assistive technology thing to allow keyboard based cursor | 19:51 |
| uhsf | i'm too used to my sony vaio ux which is the most perfect device ever still today even if it dates back to 2006 | 19:52 |
| lcuk | on windows at least, im sure there is | 19:52 |
| uhsf | i wish there was a device that fusions the n900 and the sony vaio ux | 19:52 |
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| lcuk | yes, "mousekeys" "use mousekeys if you want to control the mouse from the numeric keypad" | 19:53 |
| uhsf | the ux features the best dpad, pointing device in the world, i can't believe no one else than sony ever put such dpad on their device | 19:53 |
| lcuk | uhsf, the best pointing device in the world is your finger | 19:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | the nipple! | 19:54 |
| uhsf | you mean touchscreen and i disagree | 19:54 |
| uhsf | nipple dpad FTW | 19:54 |
| lcuk | everything else required hand to eye coordination | 19:54 |
| ToiletOil | uhsf: is that the grey thing on top right? | 19:54 |
| lcuk | just look at someone who has never used a mouse before | 19:54 |
| SpeedEvil | uhsf: lcuk is clearly an alien with a transparent finger | 19:54 |
| uhsf | ToiletOil: yes | 19:54 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil ;) closer than you tihnk | 19:55 |
| uhsf | ToiletOil: and it's black on the model i have | 19:55 |
| ToiletOil | how does it work? | 19:55 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: learning curve != best | 19:55 |
| luke-jr | err | 19:55 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: lack of learning curve != best | 19:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | ack of learning curve != worst | 19:55 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, for the nokia device i disagree based on size, but for lazy devs having mouse and keys on surface to prevent gorrila arm is true | 19:55 |
| ToiletOil | I think that initially, a touch interface with large shiny buttons are the easiest to understand | 19:56 |
| lcuk | a touchscreen device where you have to move your whole arm to use would be harder for regular desktop ops | 19:56 |
| uhsf | ToiletOil: i you can imagin a gaming controller dpad behavior, but this size. it's very intuitive | 19:56 |
| lcuk | but for wall mounted things (like calendars and pinboards) its great | 19:56 |
| pupnik | uhsf: when i swapped the transp cursor, it didn't show up immediately. do you know the cause for that? | 19:56 |
| luke-jr | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick <-- best pointing device | 19:57 |
| pupnik | luke-jr: high five | 19:57 |
| uhsf | pupnik: it doesn't work very well indeed. i'm still looking for a real configuration option to make cursor visible. sometimes it still disappears and a reboot is needed or browsing to a page with flash. i don't know more about this. | 19:58 |
| pupnik | i also had to browse to a page with flash! | 19:59 |
| tripzero | http://xkcd.com/243/ | 19:59 |
| anidel | uhsf, you want to use and move the mouse pointer? on the n900 ? why don't you swipe your finger from the left side of the screen ? | 19:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | uhsf, mouse pointer on a touchscreen is mostly pointless. | 19:59 |
| pupnik | it helps to have a pointer when using synergy from desktop | 19:59 |
| pupnik | the pointer also helps to see how i missed a tiny link | 20:00 |
| anidel | zoom in before tapping on the link | 20:00 |
| uhsf | GeneralAntilles: i'm using a synergy setup where the n900 is like an extension of my workstation monitor. a cursor is a must. | 20:00 |
| pupnik | that does not contradict my observation anidel | 20:00 |
| pupnik | uhsf: do you think regular synergy client is ok for repo, or should it be quicksynergy? | 20:01 |
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| anidel | pupnik, it does not, but a cursor, I think, will surely confuse more.. may be not you though .. I am more thinking about a general user | 20:01 |
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| pupnik | i don't advocate shipping devices with a visible X pointer :) | 20:01 |
| hrw | lardman: OE is now able to build maemo5 packages - at least console ones as so far I tried nano | 20:02 |
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| uhsf | i had synergy set up already with my notebook, so to me quicksynergy would not be that useful | 20:02 |
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| uhsf | i just copied synergy binary from easy debian and it works great | 20:02 |
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| pupnik | yeah, would work better if the client enabled the pointer itself | 20:03 |
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| hrw | bye all | 20:03 |
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| uhsf | anidel: what do you mean swipe finger from left side of screen to move pointer? | 20:03 |
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| anidel | it's related to the microB browser .. | 20:05 |
| anidel | I thought you wanted it there | 20:05 |
| uhsf | i want it everywhere | 20:05 |
| anidel | in older Maemo mouse support was removed from X | 20:05 |
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| anidel | you had to recompile it | 20:05 |
| anidel | not sure now | 20:06 |
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| anidel | anyway.. I've got to go | 20:06 |
| anidel | see you later | 20:06 |
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| uhsf | i would be very disappointed if they remove mouse support from my n900 | 20:06 |
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| Hukka | Does HAM respect pinning? | 20:08 |
| Hukka | Unfortunately the newer qt4.6 packages have ABI breakages frequently | 20:08 |
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| MohammadAG | wireshark's in extras-devel (13mb) | 20:10 |
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| MohammadAG | i wonder if it's optified | 20:10 |
| Hukka | MohammadAG: Download the deb and see | 20:11 |
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| MohammadAG | that's what i'm doing :) | 20:12 |
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| Arif_ | wooo | 20:13 |
| Arif_ | I got my N900 | 20:13 |
| Arif_ | and I managed to crash the media palyer within 3 minutes | 20:13 |
| Arif_ | :D | 20:13 |
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| pupnik | uhsf: also enabling pointer would be needed for presentations using wiimote, zeemote, or some other pointing method | 20:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Arif_: Congrats! | 20:14 |
| Arif_ | oh wow | 20:14 |
| Arif_ | it always crashes | 20:14 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 20:14 |
| Arif_ | when I type to search in the media player | 20:14 |
| Arkenoi | ah. new build numbers started appearing in bugzilla. i wonder which one is going to be pr1.2 | 20:14 |
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| Arif_ | I wonder if I should file a bug | 20:19 |
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| * RST38h moos at Arkenoi | 20:21 | |
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| RST38h | Arkenoi: You wanted a raster map viewer, right? | 20:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ah, mullf is such a prick. | 20:22 |
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| RST38h | OMG Ovi Maps lock timeout has been fixed. Apparently. | 20:22 |
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| RST38h | General: Ain't we all... | 20:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, he's particularly dedicated in his pursuit of it, though. | 20:22 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders if ovi maps is raster or vector.. | 20:23 | |
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| SpeedEvil | vector | 20:23 |
| SpeedEvil | raster maps require stupid amounts of storage | 20:23 |
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| ShadowJK | on S60 you can see various things drawn, like first you get lake outlines and then after that comes roads iirc | 20:24 |
| ShadowJK | but on maemo it's like rectangles with everything in them appearing | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | zoom in | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | now compute the size of the bitmap | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | that's insane | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | it's vector | 20:24 |
| SpeedEvil | the rendering may be tile based though | 20:24 |
| ShadowJK | well a few hundred bytes in png :D | 20:25 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 20:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | Now multiply that by 100000*100000 | 20:25 |
| ShadowJK | Maybe the interface is tile based since it does satellite too (or the S60 one does now) :/ | 20:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | It vastly simplifies the db search problem if you hold the vectors in tiles | 20:28 |
| SpeedEvil | You want a bounding box of lat/lon - you simply look at what tiles of the db they are in - and look in those tiles only. | 20:29 |
| SpeedEvil | and draw that. | 20:29 |
| RST38h | General: A man dedicated to his Mission! | 20:29 |
| SpeedEvil | you don't have to look over a whole database, just a tiny fraction. | 20:29 |
| * SpeedEvil has somewhere a map as 70G of xml... | 20:29 | |
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| zChris | Anyone that owns a Nokia N900 and know if there is an Gyrometer in it ? | 20:30 |
| SpeedEvil | there is no gyro | 20:30 |
| SpeedEvil | there is an accellerometer | 20:30 |
| satmd | lol | 20:30 |
| zChris | Hmm so a application like http://www.google.com/sky/skymap.html isint possible on N900 ? | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | no. | 20:31 |
| Mandavar | hi | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | And that's a compass, not a gyro AIUI | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | you can add a compass, but it will void your warranty, and require you to write drivers. | 20:32 |
| Mandavar | Can anyone tell me where Maemo 5 stores the PSK of a WPA connection? | 20:32 |
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| Mandavar | The gui seems to expect a passphrase but i have only the hex PSK | 20:33 |
| jaem|away | Mandavar, in GConf | 20:33 |
| jaem|away | I don't remember the path, but it should be on the Web somewhere | 20:33 |
| jaem|away | zChris, if you do need compasses or gyros, you can buy IMU modules from places such as SparkFun.com, and wire them to a Bluetooth dongle | 20:33 |
| zChris | SpeedEvil: there is a guid for that? :S | 20:33 |
| zChris | guide* | 20:34 |
| jaem|away | zChris, and that method wouldn't involve any warranty voiding, but may not be what your looking for | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you also can add a plutonium cell, It also voids warranty, needs adding lead shielding, and you need clearance from IAEO :-P | 20:34 |
| zChris | I have a hard time deciding on what OS/Phone i want. So im checking possibilities :P | 20:34 |
| jaem|away | DocScrutinizer, can it make my N900 travel back in time? | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends on your software skills | 20:35 |
| tripzero | jaem|away, sure, date -s [some time in the past] | 20:35 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking - see the compass part. | 20:35 |
| SpeedEvil | zChris: I'd be willing to write a walkthrough if I had a spare n900 | 20:36 |
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| zChris | well hardware hacking is too expensive for me :P | 20:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: well that sounds about as easy as the plutonium cell project ;-P | 20:38 |
| jaem|away | tripzero, you can fool your RTC, but you can't fool me | 20:38 |
| jaem|away | I'm just too quick ;) | 20:38 |
| tripzero | :P | 20:38 |
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| ShadowJK | how much are IMU modules? | 20:41 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: It depends. | 20:41 |
| SpeedEvil | From $40 to $400000 | 20:42 |
| ShadowJK | well I'm not NASA | 20:42 |
| SpeedEvil | IMU modules that will fit in a phone and are under $100 aren't great | 20:42 |
| SpeedEvil | As in errors of a kilometer in a minute or two | 20:42 |
| derf | IMU's that are $400,000 aren't that great, either. | 20:43 |
| SpeedEvil | no. | 20:43 |
| SpeedEvil | they are better than the ones at $100 though | 20:43 |
| derf | This is true. | 20:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Also a lot larger | 20:43 |
| derf | Well, they're meant to be put on planes. | 20:43 |
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| Passeli | are Qt 4.6 beta packages in extras-devel broken? cannot install libqt4-maemo5-dev | 20:47 |
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| Arkenoi | wow, wireshark | 20:51 |
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| Arkenoi | not hildonized and huge fonts, though :-( | 20:51 |
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| ShadowJK | huge fonts suck :( | 20:52 |
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| Hukka | Any hints on how to debug a desktop file that does not work? | 20:59 |
| Borgia | ciao | 20:59 |
| Borgia | !list | 20:59 |
| Hukka | The same command from command line is fine, but via the menu I only get a blank window, briefly | 20:59 |
| pupnik | Hukka: compare to others | 20:59 |
| Hukka | pupnik: Did, I've created another desktop file for running my irssi via ssh, that works | 21:00 |
| Hukka | This one is for a python app | 21:00 |
| pupnik | Hukka: what program are you launching? | 21:00 |
| Hukka | pupnik: My own | 21:00 |
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| pupnik | Hukka: i am so sorry, i forgot. See the porting applications to maemo wiki and how to talk to the windowmanager | 21:01 |
| ifreq | Hukka: is the python file self executable? | 21:03 |
| ifreq | does it run on ints own window or in x-terminal? | 21:03 |
| Hukka | ifreq: Self executable? It needs the python binary... | 21:04 |
| Hukka | And yes, it should open a window via Qt | 21:04 |
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| fragment | Hukka: reading any external files from the working directory? | 21:04 |
| Hukka | No | 21:05 |
| Hukka | It gets the data via network | 21:05 |
| Hukka | And it runs fine with the same command no matter where I start it in command line | 21:06 |
| * Arkenoi tries to play games with scrummvm (beneath a steel sky), no luck - cannot show inventory listing, cannot skip movies and dialogs :-( | 21:06 | |
| Hukka | Arkenoi: I tried Discworld games. Same kind of results | 21:06 |
| fragment | Hukka: try printing some stuff into a log file to pinpoint the location where it dies | 21:06 |
| Hukka | fragment: I tried to redirect stderr into a file. The file is not even created when starting via menu | 21:07 |
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| Hukka | So I have a reason to believe the command isn't actually run... | 21:08 |
| Hukka | I could try to add some hardcoded prints though, if that's what you mea | 21:08 |
| fragment | Hukka: try running something else then | 21:08 |
| Hukka | fragment: Uh, huh? | 21:08 |
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| fragment | Hukka: ..to see if it is completely broken? maybe a bit far fetched :P | 21:08 |
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| Hukka | No, it's not broken... | 21:09 |
| Hukka | I've opened the browser and played a game since I had this problem | 21:09 |
| Hukka | But now I've run out of all ideas of my own | 21:09 |
| fragment | Hukka: I mean with your desktop file | 21:09 |
| Hukka | fragment: Ah. It's copied from a working file | 21:10 |
| Hukka | I mentioned earlier I had this desktop file to open my irc via ssh to an xterm with a single click | 21:10 |
| Hukka | I just changed the app name and the command | 21:10 |
| Hukka | + I can add the icon to my desktop | 21:11 |
| Hukka | It seems like Fremantle doesn't let you add broken desktop files | 21:11 |
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| Hukka | At least it removed the icon when I broke the file for a short while :) | 21:11 |
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| andre__ | which package do I have to install to get gst-launch? | 21:22 |
| Hukka | There's a gstreamer tools package | 21:22 |
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| Hukka | apt-cache search for it | 21:22 |
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| andre__ | tools it was. thanks :) | 21:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | Woo! | 21:35 |
| SpeedEvil | angrybirds all 3*'d | 21:35 |
| yuizy | wow | 21:35 |
| SpeedEvil | well - first levels anyway | 21:35 |
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| anpr | heya | 21:39 |
| ml-mobile | until nokia fixes the ovi store... | 21:39 |
| * Arkenoi got all 3 levels all 3* | 21:40 | |
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| andre__ | Arkenoi, jealousy! on the other hand: no real life? ;-)) | 21:41 |
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| Arkenoi | andre: just no fulltime job ;-) | 21:43 |
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| Arkenoi | well, actually it did not take *that* much ;-) | 21:44 |
| andre__ | haha | 21:45 |
| Shapeshifter | so I've written something using gstreamer (just to retrieve a mjpeg stream from a web cam and show it. It works in scratchbox, but on the n900, the gstreamer bit is missing. there's no picture. network connection is working, and gdb doesn't say anything interesting. | 21:45 |
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| felipec | is anyone familiar with debian packaging? I'm having trouble understanding dh_strip | 21:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: was that you who appreciated the ramp of kbd backlight? | 21:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | whoever it's been... There is no real ramp. Switching kbd bl on and off takes <0.1s each. So I *really* wonder why we need engine3 for that :-(( | 22:00 |
| ShadowJK | heh, google street view doesnt wrok fullscreen | 22:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: it doesn't. It fades out much slower than .1s | 22:00 |
| SpeedEvil | IMO | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ot here | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | Not | 22:00 |
| SpeedEvil | odd | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | the *screen* fades | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | kb bl switches rather steep | 22:01 |
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| hamod | :) | 22:05 |
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| Arif_ | does anyone know if petrovic can be integrated into the media player? | 22:07 |
| Arif_ | So I can send a song directly from it | 22:07 |
| Arif_ | it's a bit hard scrolling through 2000+ entries to find and send a file :( | 22:07 |
| jophish | Arif_, that might be very tricky | 22:07 |
| jophish | much more likely to happen in a different player | 22:08 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 22:08 |
| Arif_ | ok | 22:08 |
| Arif_ | then how about something else... | 22:08 |
| Arif_ | the media player crashes and quits each time I try to search in "All songs" | 22:08 |
| Arif_ | is there some log I can poke in to see why | 22:08 |
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| MiXu- | N900 has Qt 4.5.x at the moment, right? | 22:20 |
| asj_ | unless you get 4.6 from extras-devel | 22:20 |
| MiXu- | right | 22:20 |
| asj_ | though I know there's been talk (rumor?) about pr1.2 including 4.6 | 22:21 |
| MiXu- | Yes, so I heard | 22:22 |
| mtd | asj_: when? | 22:23 |
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| asj_ | when what? | 22:23 |
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| Arkenoi | looks like gonvert and gpodder conflict (different versions of python-glade2) | 22:27 |
| asj_ | did they change recently? both of mine are happy together at the moment | 22:27 |
| asj_ | and gpodder updated within the last 2 days | 22:27 |
| Arkenoi | i had gonvert installed for a long time and never was able to install gpodder | 22:28 |
| Arkenoi | will try to reinstall now | 22:28 |
| asj_ | gonvert needs some work on the UI it's so hard to use | 22:29 |
| aSIMULAtor | agreed | 22:30 |
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| aSIMULAtor | needs a complete ui overhaul | 22:30 |
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| * lcuk wonders if aSIMULAtor managed to pass on her lurgy to everyone in finland? | 22:35 | |
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| frals | hmpf, twitter search borked ;< | 22:37 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Somehow she's passed it on to me. | 22:48 |
| aSIMULAtor | cooties | 22:49 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, mmm perhaps, do your symptoms resemble adeles? ie sniffing on people, pining for the beach, going through multiple packs of tissues | 22:50 |
| * w00t blinks | 22:51 | |
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| lcuk | holy flock! for anyone who ever played with fractint : http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/09/deep-zoom-into-mande.html | 22:52 |
| lcuk | i think the guy in the article is lying and actually started rendering it in the 1980s | 22:52 |
| aSIMULAtor | cool link | 22:52 |
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| lcuk | i think it reaches the 32bit precision level after about 10 seconds of zooming | 22:53 |
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| Arkenoi | for some obscure reason gpodder starts media player even if explicitly told to start panucci :-( | 22:59 |
| mavhc | there's some mega zooms on youtube, running for 10 mins | 23:00 |
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| jophish | I think that the Mandelbrot set is among the most beautiful and elegant things this universe has to offer | 23:01 |
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| pupnik | yeah i built a mandlebrot zoomer for maemo | 23:02 |
| pupnik | but it had math errors :) | 23:02 |
| * lcuk should revive mandelbrot diver i did on n810 and see if it works | 23:03 | |
| lcuk | on n900 | 23:03 |
| mavhc | jophish: it's not dependent on this universe though, that's even crazier | 23:03 |
| jophish | Absolutely | 23:04 |
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| mavhc | it doesn't matter what G is, or even how many dimensions you live in | 23:04 |
| jophish | I think that any complexity out of simplicity is stunning | 23:04 |
| jophish | "Life" is a prime example of this | 23:04 |
| lcuk | x^2-1 | 23:04 |
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| jophish | http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/expipiplus1/Fractals?authkey=Gv1sRgCKfF_tnRy97KuQE&feat=directlink | 23:11 |
| jophish | some of mine | 23:11 |
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| pupnik | nice | 23:12 |
| jophish | :) | 23:12 |
| pupnik | it is a deep revelation of some sort to see mathematical fractals | 23:12 |
| jophish | thanks | 23:12 |
| pupnik | i wish our brains could really grok it though | 23:12 |
| pupnik | those are very nice | 23:13 |
| lcuk | pupnik, ian has suggested a good idea would be to phone the hotels we were at | 23:13 |
| jophish | thanks again :) | 23:13 |
| lcuk | he didnt see it in our room and i didnt either | 23:13 |
| lcuk | but you never know | 23:14 |
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| * pupnik will call | 23:14 | |
| Dantonic | hi anyone play ogg files on their N900? | 23:14 |
| lcuk | ill get you the details hold on | 23:14 |
| pupnik | http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/expipiplus1/Fractals?authkey=Gv1sRgCKfF_tnRy97KuQE&feat=directlink#5426349805695598546 love that rug | 23:14 |
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| pupnik | btw there is a nice cellular automata program written by some dude at autodesk back in 1992 or so | 23:14 |
| jophish | Persian rug. Aboriginal art? | 23:15 |
| pupnik | very clever use of precomputing to achieve high speed | 23:15 |
| mece | hello hello maemonians | 23:16 |
| jophish | The game of life is another example of emergent properties and complexity. | 23:16 |
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| jophish | now, a maemo version of _that_ would be worth making! | 23:17 |
| * lcuk sees chaos in liqflow and smiles | 23:17 | |
| * jophish has found a new project | 23:17 | |
| lcuk | jophish, we were discussin this the other night cos someone made a connect4 game | 23:17 |
| lcuk | and we were gona hack it to play GOL | 23:17 |
| jophish | connect four to gol! brilliant | 23:18 |
| mece | wait, what's connect4? | 23:18 |
| lcuk | google might know | 23:18 |
| mece | and what's GOL? Apparently I've been living under a rock. | 23:19 |
| * w00t eyes lcuk | 23:19 | |
| mece | I don't like google. | 23:19 |
| jophish | http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=connect%20four | 23:19 |
| * mece bows | 23:19 | |
| pupnik | jophish: this is a more interesting 1d rule than i have seen before http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/expipiplus1/Fractals?authkey=Gv1sRgCKfF_tnRy97KuQE&feat=directlink#5365283853947347618 | 23:19 |
| mece | righty-o | 23:19 |
| pupnik | what is GOL? | 23:20 |
| nomis | pupnik: GameOfLife | 23:20 |
| jophish | Conway's Game of Life | 23:20 |
| pupnik | ohh | 23:20 |
| mece | right right. | 23:20 |
| pupnik | Dantonic: i do sometimes | 23:20 |
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| mece | you and your fancy abbrevations | 23:20 |
| jophish | pupnik, not really 1d, more like 3 in that one. x,y and colour | 23:20 |
| zChris | I did Gol once! :) | 23:20 |
| Arif_ | quick stupid question, how do I let the virtual keyboard pop up? | 23:21 |
| * lcuk thinks flow is like a lorenz attractor | 23:21 | |
| w00t | Arif_: press the screen, and up it comes | 23:21 |
| pupnik | jophish: those would look great as giant transparencies on a lightbox | 23:21 |
| w00t | (on an input, of course) | 23:21 |
| Dantonic | hey pupnik just wondering what codecs you use. | 23:22 |
| pupnik | i thought flow *was* that lcuk | 23:22 |
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| jophish | It's funny you should say that. I had two printed out (the circles) onto perspex | 23:22 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 23:22 |
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| * Arif_ pokes the screen | 23:22 | |
| pupnik | Dantonic: ah i think i just played with mplayer | 23:22 |
| lcuk | haha pupnik, i knew it was nonlinear but i thought i was the only one that thought it | 23:22 |
| mece | Arif_, you need to enable it in settings first... | 23:22 |
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| jophish | they never look as good as they do on a computer though | 23:22 |
| Arif_ | I have! | 23:23 |
| Dantonic | wait pupnik what front end do you use for mplayer? | 23:23 |
| Arif_ | that's why I'm asking here | 23:23 |
| w00t | Arif_: tap once to get it into a text edit, then tap that text edit - if that doesn't work, make sure you didn't disable it in settings | 23:23 |
| mece | Arif_, and then poke at an input area. | 23:23 |
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| pupnik | Dantonic: just the shell | 23:23 |
| * Arif_ goes to check to be sure | 23:23 | |
| mece | Some devel apps have been known to stop the virtual keyboard from popping up. | 23:23 |
| mece | ..or so I hear. | 23:24 |
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| Dantonic | pupnik, I would love a way to make the default media player use mplayer instead of gstreamer do you know if that's possible? | 23:24 |
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| lcuk | Dantonic, original spec for MAFW specified allowing multiple backends | 23:24 |
| tripzero | Dantonic, if the default media player uses phonon, you could probably install the phonon mplayer backend... | 23:25 |
| lcuk | i have no idea whether that remained | 23:25 |
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| * Arif_ throws the N900 out of the window | 23:25 | |
| Arif_ | :shifty: | 23:25 |
| * lcuk stands under Arif_s window | 23:25 | |
| Dantonic | lcuk, that's good news... | 23:25 |
| zChris | Aranel: To me! | 23:25 |
| Arif_ | oh well, no Turkish input for me then | 23:25 |
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| Dantonic | tripzero, idk what phonon is is it available in the repos? | 23:25 |
| lcuk | its the qt media backend | 23:25 |
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| Aranel | zChris: yeah? | 23:26 |
| Arif_ | apart from the media player crashing all the time. it's a great phone though :D | 23:26 |
| * Arif_ loves it | 23:26 | |
| Aranel | hi there Arif_ =) | 23:26 |
| Arif_ | hi | 23:26 |
| lcuk | Arif_, mmm which bit crashes? | 23:26 |
| Dantonic | lcuk, so how can I install that? | 23:27 |
| lcuk | i play movies in it in bursts all day | 23:27 |
| Arif_ | whenever I try to search in the "all songs" it crashes | 23:27 |
| Arif_ | =} | 23:27 |
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| lcuk | Dantonic, its only a part of qt, its not a standalone thing afaik, and it wouldnt help your problem | 23:27 |
| Dantonic | ah ok... | 23:27 |
| Arif_ | but if I start typing in albums or artist it's just fine | 23:27 |
| Dantonic | so there's no config file that tells the media player what backend to use? | 23:27 |
| * mece wonders if one could get a world record in N900 fly if one took it to the ISS... | 23:28 | |
| Aijse | So I was wondering whether I should go for the N900 Maemo phone or not, enjoying ubuntu on my pc for a few years now. Was wondering if the community is fastly developping an nice apps are made? | 23:28 |
| Arif_ | maybe it doesn't like the 2000 Turkish charactered songs I threw at it | 23:28 |
| Arif_ | :D | 23:28 |
| * lcuk likes meces thinking | 23:28 | |
| lcuk | Arif_, possibly | 23:28 |
| Arif_ | Aijse, there are 156 apps from november till now | 23:29 |
| Aranel | Arif_: you said "no turkish input for me" why not? does not ukeyboard work for you? | 23:29 |
| mece | lcuk, I guess one could test the theory with that Spaceship one thing, before booking a flight to ISS | 23:29 |
| Arif_ | so yes I think the community is great ;P | 23:29 |
| lcuk | mece, vomit comit would get you the world record first | 23:29 |
| Arif_ | Aranel, I can't get the virtual keyboard to pop up :P | 23:29 |
| mece | lcuk, a rollercoaster of sorts? | 23:29 |
| Arif_ | I enabled it in the settings and set it to TR/EN | 23:29 |
| jophish | n900fly works well on a trampoline | 23:29 |
| lcuk | you could also start a bit smaller and pad phone in a huge great ball of something and drop it off a building | 23:30 |
| Aijse | Just for the fun of it could you name some of the most awesome apps that will convince any 1? | 23:30 |
| lcuk | o_O jophish i like your thinking | 23:30 |
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| jophish | mece, an aeroplane taking a parabolic flight to simulate microgravity | 23:30 |
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| lcuk | vomit comet | 23:30 |
| Aranel | Arif_: strange. just to make sure: when your use it, does your HW keyboard is on/off? | 23:30 |
| mece | Aijse, comic-widget!!!! | 23:30 |
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| lcuk | or whatever its called | 23:30 |
| Aijse | mece, lets see :P | 23:30 |
| fernando2k | so, say, how hard it would be to get this http://sourceforge.net/projects/gstm/ running on an N900? | 23:30 |
| mece | Aijse, I'm joking. I made that app... ;) | 23:30 |
| lcuk | Aijse, theres LOTS of awesome apps coming/here for n900 | 23:31 |
| Arif_ | ...oh you have to CLOSE the keyboard? | 23:31 |
| Arif_ | there we go | 23:31 |
| Arif_ | :D | 23:31 |
| mece | Arif_, Success! | 23:31 |
| zChris | lcuk: i want google sky map T_T | 23:31 |
| Arif_ | yes! :D | 23:31 |
| fernando2k | I don't even want the systray thing to work (I know xchat's systray component does not) | 23:31 |
| fernando2k | :P | 23:31 |
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| Arif_ | now to get the media player to stop being racist to Turkish and we're all set!@ | 23:32 |
| Arif_ | =} | 23:32 |
| lcuk | zChris, not seen it, but there is a great looking astronomy app on its way/just in testing | 23:32 |
| Aranel | Arif_: ^^ | 23:32 |
| Aijse | Well lets just convince my phone company they need to gibve me a N900 than :P | 23:32 |
| Arif_ | yes | 23:32 |
| Arif_ | you should :P | 23:32 |
| * Aranel is a real problem solver. yay! | 23:32 | |
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| Arif_ | now someone write an app that can make the N900 make Turkish tea | 23:33 |
| Arif_ | and I'm all set | 23:33 |
| lcuk | sorry, theres an pp for english tea only, theres no translation for it at this time | 23:33 |
| mece | Aijse, I've found that the thing I like most about my N900 is how you can write the programs and commit them to the repository using only the device itself. | 23:34 |
| Arif_ | ew | 23:34 |
| Arif_ | I don't want painted water | 23:34 |
| Arif_ | :( | 23:34 |
| mece | Aijse, the comic widget is written mostly in the can ;) | 23:34 |
| lcuk | we can tell mece | 23:34 |
| mece | Aijse, err, while on the can :) | 23:34 |
| mece | lcuk, thanks. | 23:34 |
| Aijse | mece, sounds challenging | 23:34 |
| zChris | lcuk: yeah but can you point it to the sky and tell you what stars you are looking at? | 23:34 |
| lcuk | what happens in the modern era if you run out of loo paper | 23:35 |
| Aijse | I still wnat my phone to read my heartbeat sensor and combine it with a gps to make some cool graphs | 23:35 |
| lcuk | lcd screens and bevel edges cants be kind t othe skin | 23:35 |
| mece | Aijse, no usb host mode...? does the sensor have bluetooth? | 23:35 |
| lcuk | Aijse, ecoach has support afaik for bt sensors | 23:35 |
| Aijse | mine doesn't ... but im willing to buy 1 | 23:35 |
| Arif_ | on a more positive note, I managed to stream my TV card with kmplayer =D | 23:35 |
| Aijse | mece, isnt that expensive | 23:36 |
| mece | lcuk, Aijse, cool stuff :) | 23:36 |
| Aijse | mece, but a dedicated tool, like the polar watches are about 300 euros | 23:36 |
| mece | Aijse, or suunto :) | 23:36 |
| Aijse | Icuk, ecoach works with maemo? | 23:37 |
| lcuk | zChris, no, and admitedly thats a v cool feature, especially in places where you have lots of stars | 23:37 |
| lcuk | here in england even using the best telescope in the world it would just say "you are looking at cloud" | 23:38 |
| mece | lcuk, zChris, I've been thinking about that thing. Pattern matching against stars shouldn't be very hard, well on the scale of pattern matching real world that is. | 23:39 |
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| lcuk | mece, understood | 23:39 |
| Aijse | WoW | 23:39 |
| Aijse | ecoach! | 23:39 |
| lcuk | order the visual pixels by intensity and relative position | 23:39 |
| lcuk | and then try from there | 23:39 |
| mece | lcuk.. are we talking about stellarium? | 23:39 |
| lcuk | that was the name of the one i couldnt remember yeah | 23:40 |
| mece | that would be the ultimate showoff software.. pointing the thing towards the sky, and click a star on screen to see info about it... | 23:40 |
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| lcuk | id rather do that with friends faces in the room :) | 23:40 |
| mece | that's the future. I mean proper scifi stuff :) | 23:40 |
| mece | lcuk, well I guess. | 23:40 |
| lcuk | stars are constant basically | 23:41 |
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| zChris | mece: i was talking about the Google Sky map which utilises GPS Accelerator and the compass | 23:41 |
| lcuk | you could fake it convincingly :) | 23:41 |
| mece | lcuk, yes, hence the (relative ease of doing it / the wow factor) ratio would be off the charts... | 23:41 |
| lcuk | just load up zx spectrum version of elite or something | 23:42 |
| mece | zChris, well, that's not pattern matching now is it. I wan't to use the camera.. | 23:42 |
| mece | lcuk, lol | 23:42 |
| TomaszD | http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28812 | 23:42 |
| TomaszD | does not disappoint, as usual | 23:42 |
| mece | aaaargh.. my adsl modem sucketh. It's bogged down again. Takes ages to load that video. | 23:43 |
| mece | modem reboot makes things fast again. | 23:43 |
| mece | ok, not a video. | 23:44 |
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| mece | TomaszD, LOL | 23:44 |
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| * Jaffa mutters atg WONTFIX on bug 8955. | 23:44 | |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8955 Long application names (labels) in the menu are cut at the end | 23:44 |
| andre__ | yeah... | 23:44 |
| Jaffa | andre__: Apologies for the rant I've just adde.d | 23:45 |
| andre__ | fading out, says the Spec. which is ignored currently. | 23:45 |
| andre__ | I think they don | 23:45 |
| andre__ | t want to change the grid | 23:45 |
| Jaffa | Nope, they dont' fade out either. At least that wouldn't look so stupid. | 23:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, stab me in the eye. | 23:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | God I hate Nokia. | 23:45 |
| jophish | In regards to using the camera to pattern match stars, is the camera good enough to detect stars? the moon certainly. But in a hazy city, or in overcast England it might no work too well. | 23:45 |
| jacekowski | Jaffa: all operating systems just cut names | 23:46 |
| mece | jophish, well in a city, you don't really see the stars either way, so your point is moot | 23:46 |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: Pardon? | 23:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wrapping is such an obvious solution. | 23:46 |
| jacekowski | what i would like to get is a menu that's like symbian menu | 23:46 |
| jacekowski | where you can assign stuff to subfolders | 23:47 |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: You can do that on Maemo | 23:47 |
| zChris | mece: Is the camera good enough to catch all the relatives stars to make a correct guess ? | 23:47 |
| jophish | mece, I stand correctedd. | 23:47 |
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| jacekowski | not like in N900 where you either can have it like in app manager | 23:47 |
| mece | zChris. No idea. | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, maybe CC konttori? | 23:47 |
| mece | zChris, I'll check. hold on. | 23:47 |
| jacekowski | Jaffa: how? | 23:47 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: You're evil ;-) | 23:47 |
| * mece goes outside to check on stars | 23:47 | |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: By "have it like in app manager" you mean by using my Catorise package? | 23:48 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 23:48 |
| jacekowski | that's shait | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: That scratches my itch. Edit /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu however you want. | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: Oh, how nice of you. | 23:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, it's all about getting things done. He didn't HAVE to take up ownership of Fremantle. :D | 23:48 |
| jacekowski | i want to be able to assign them like i used to be able on symbian phones | 23:48 |
| zChris | How hard isit to convert a app that works for example linux qt ? | 23:48 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: True | 23:48 |
| jacekowski | zChris: very easy | 23:49 |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: I want never gets. Especially if you insult the people most close to developing a tool to do what you want. | 23:49 |
| jacekowski | zChris: as long as it's not using too much memory and will work reasonably on smaller screen | 23:49 |
| zChris | Hmm alright | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Symbian users suffer from entitlement issues, too? Interesting. | 23:49 |
| mece | zChris, no, it does not. :/ | 23:50 |
| jacekowski | Jaffa: i'll do it myself when i'll get to many apps | 23:50 |
| zChris | mece: :/ | 23:50 |
| jacekowski | for now it isn't annoying enough for me to bother | 23:50 |
| zChris | Btw How well does flash work on N900 ? | 23:50 |
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| jacekowski | zChris: quite fast | 23:50 |
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| jacekowski | zChris: to be honest i was surprised by it's speed | 23:50 |
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| mece | zChris, have a good enough camera to see the stars. At least not where I am. There are streetlights nearby, and a some clouds too, so not really clear, but looks bad. | 23:50 |
| Jaffa | jacekowski: Common courtesy would have you not call something "shit" to the developer's face, though, no? | 23:51 |
| jacekowski | 15M/s write | 23:51 |
| jacekowski | Jaffa: shit != shait | 23:51 |
| jophish | mece cloudy here too. | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | jacekowski, clearly, shit is in the dictionary. | 23:51 |
| zChris | jacekowski: does farmvile work ? ;) | 23:52 |
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| jacekowski | zChris: farmvile? | 23:52 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I'll poke kontorri about it if I see him online; seems a bit like name dropping to CC him on random bugs ;-) | 23:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, what's the point of wasting all this time if you can't namedrop? :P | 23:53 |
| mece | hahaha | 23:53 |
| zChris | jacekowski: Facebook app | 23:54 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Truuuueeee.... | 23:54 |
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| jacekowski | i don't have facebook account | 23:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, ping? | 23:54 |
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| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: pong? | 23:55 |
| jacekowski | i know what i'm going to do | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xisdibik, wrong Andre! | 23:55 |
| * Jaffa *always* spells "konttori" wrong.. Hmm.. | 23:55 | |
| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: im not an andre at all actualy ;) | 23:55 |
| jacekowski | last.fm scrobbler app | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xisdibik, s/pong/ping/? | 23:55 |
| jacekowski | or there is one already? | 23:55 |
| Xisdibik | no one ever pings me though, i was feelin lonely | 23:55 |
| kakashi_ | Hi! I am new here, just bought the N900 - installing the sdk now. | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I had to google it every time I wanted to type it for a looong time. | 23:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xisdibik, lol. | 23:56 |
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| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, yesh? | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, you see? http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/2010/02/me-too.html | 23:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, mostly the comments. | 23:57 |
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| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, good point. is there a ticket in http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ ? | 23:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, not a clue. | 23:59 |
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