IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-08-16

timeless_mbpsadly marius can't spell to save his reputation00:05
johnsqspellinng isn't important for developers00:06
timeless_mbpor maybe i can't read at 6mins past midnight00:06
timeless_mbpit's the latter, so i definitely need to hunt dinner00:07
timeless_mbp :(00:07
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timeless_mbpno.00:08
timeless_mbpi'm right, he can't spell00:09
timeless_mbpsomehwere00:09
* timeless_mbp relies on finns sisu preventing them from asking a spell checker for help00:09
timeless_mbphttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/22/AR2006032201943.html00:09
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timeless_mbphttp://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/search?string=HildonFileSelectionPrivate+*priv+%3D+HILDON_FILE_SELECTION(data)->priv&find=XXX&findi=&filter=[Hh]ildonFileSelectionPrivate+*priv+%3D+HILDON_FILE_SELECTION(data)->priv&hitlimit=&tree=diablo00:12
timeless_mbpdoes the output from that page seem useful?00:12
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timeless_mbp(and yes, i'm aware the output is stupid in various amusing ways)00:12
lcuktimeless, "Your search was too long, the full search was converted into a filter."00:14
timeless_mbplcuk: yes00:14
timeless_mbpthe search engine doesn't handle strings > 29 characters00:14
timeless_mbpthis search is based on a line of text in a file00:14
timeless_mbpwhich is totally bogus as search input :)00:14
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timeless_mbpthe point is the recovery path00:14
lcukwell frankly i dunno what it has done00:15
lcukbut it found nothing00:15
timeless_mbpthere's a line that tries to explain what it was searching00:16
lcukmind you, google cant parse that00:16
timeless_mbpand it has helpful suggestions for things you could search instead00:16
timeless_mbpthe helpful suggestions are new00:17
lcukit does a valiant job and gets me the commits00:17
timeless_mbpand are based on javispedro's failing00:17
timeless_mbp"commits"?00:17
lcukhttp://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&q=HildonFileSelectionPrivate+*priv+%3D+HILDON_FILE_SELECTION(data)-%3Epriv&meta=&fp=1b311284ac0b25f600:17
lcukhttp://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-commits@maemo.org/msg02914.html is first restult00:17
lcukhow come mxr isnt in google to allow you to setup a custom search front end00:18
lcukas lots of source sites appear to have (I even think itt had a custom google search at some point00:18
timeless_mbpbecause i don't think i can afford the bandwidth00:18
lcukok reasonable enough, theres a lot of code there00:19
timeless_mbpanyway, the reason i asked about "commits" is that you wrote "cant"00:19
timeless_mbpwhich i parsed as "can not"00:19
timeless_mbpwhich seemed like a perfectly reasonable parse!00:19
lcukno, i expected your site to be in the rankings00:20
lcukand dont really think google should be coming to a mailing list - i hate the way it does, it makes finding code hard00:20
lcukor rather, reading code00:20
* lcuk likes mxr00:21
lcukand following links everywhere :)00:21
timeless_mbpi'll ask my host if he thinks we can afford to let google index us00:21
lcukhow large is the database itself now00:23
lcukits gotta be mega00:23
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timeless_mbp-rw-r--r--  1 timeless pg922508 653M 2008-09-22 14:46 xref00:24
timeless_mbpthat's just the diablo cross reference00:24
lcukthats smaller than i expected00:25
timeless_mbpthe corresponding glimpse index is about 100mb00:25
lcukthe database of sketches im working with on the tablet is ~115mb00:25
timeless_mbpthe box has a number of xref's00:25
lcukyeah, is it one db per ref00:25
timeless_mbp-rw-rw-r--  1 timeless pg922508 731M 2008-09-18 17:02 garage-all/xref00:26
timeless_mbp-rw-r--r--  1 timeless pg922508 507M 2009-01-28 06:25 garage/xref00:26
timeless_mbp-rw-r--r--  1 timeless pg922508 530M 2008-09-20 20:20 sardine-20071025/xref00:26
timeless_mbpjust a random sampling00:26
* lcuk nods00:26
timeless_mbp-rw-rw-r--  1 timeless pg922508 340M 2009-02-09 14:06 android/xref00:26
timeless_mbpvery random :)00:26
lcukheh00:27
lcukso you just point it at a source folder and let it munch its way through it?00:27
timeless_mbppretty much00:28
timeless_mbphttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/android/00:28
timeless_mbpfwiw00:28
timeless_mbphttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/android/source/ click on the drop down to see a list of the random things that i collected on this host :)00:28
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lcuknow i see where the bandwidth issue comes form00:29
lcukfrom00:29
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timeless_mbpyep00:30
timeless_mbpand keep in mind that a bunch of trees have a couple of names00:30
timeless_mbpwhich means i get to pay 2-3x for each name00:30
lcukyeah i can see00:30
timeless_mbpplus i have to pay for each identifier00:30
timeless_mbpand possibly each search :)00:30
lcukwhat if you altered tact00:31
lcukand instead of locally hosting attempting a transition to one of the grid databases00:31
timeless_mbpdid i mention i'm a web 0.9 person00:32
timeless_mbpthat sounds like web 3.000:32
lcuki know00:32
timeless_mbpescary00:32
lcukbut google have heaps of space on their servers for this kind of stuff00:32
lcukand the processing power they can offer over such large datasets could be good00:32
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lcuk(listen to me, i am the person who has gone right back to basics..)00:33
lcukim happiest with regular databases00:33
pupnikgardening?00:33
pupnikoh00:33
LinuxCodepupnik, what is wrong with gardening!00:34
lcukheh, cave painting :P00:34
lcukgardening is good, you can grow bacon00:34
LinuxCodegardening is good, it keeps you away froma  computer00:35
LinuxCodegotta get your Vitamin D somehow00:36
* VDVsx kicks autobuilder for taking too much time :(00:36
* pupnik apologises for being useless and offtopic00:36
pupnikwell i did study some GemRB today00:37
lbttimeless_mbp: hi.. do you know about en_gb issue in Mer00:37
timeless_mbpno00:37
timeless_mbpspeak quickly00:37
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timeless_mbpi'm starving00:37
lbtnm00:37
timeless_mbplbt: the only thing i know is that the string set before last had engb date formats00:37
timeless_mbpin files that were supposedly enus00:37
timeless_mbpfor which i was terribly embarassed00:37
timeless_mbpi gave Stskeeps fixed strings last week00:38
lbtwe should be able to use both though?00:38
timeless_mbpit will mean that people who want engb will um... have to undo some of those changes00:38
timeless_mbpwell, nothing prevents someone from taking my strings and maintaining an engb fork00:38
lbtmutter00:38
timeless_mbpor a simple symlink00:38
lbten_gb should be the main en_* set... ;)00:38
timeless_mbpthe changes are mostly color, personalize, and date formatting00:38
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qwerty12_N810en_GB should be renamed to en00:39
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lbtabsolutely00:39
lbten_us is the fork00:39
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qwerty12_N810(and a bad one at that ;P)00:40
* timeless_mbp sighs00:41
lcuklol qwerty00:41
* timeless_mbp wants to strangle some people00:41
timeless_mbpoddly non nokians00:41
lcukqwerty, HIDE00:41
qwerty12_N810lcuk: you're guilty too: I see you using color :p00:41
lcukim lazy tho00:41
lcukand i dont write in english or american00:41
lcukremember, for me, "canvass" used to be the correct spelling00:42
timeless_mbpegads00:43
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lcuklol timeless00:47
lcuki had code everywhere that used it00:47
timeless_mbplcuk: anyway, about mxr00:50
timeless_mbpthe interesting thing from the original url i gave you was:00:50
timeless_mbpFor faster searches, you could search for these identifiers: HildonFileSelectionPrivate, priv, HILDON_FILE_SELECTION, data, priv00:50
lcukit offered tokenized suggestions as you said00:50
timeless_mbpthe question is, is that helpful00:50
timeless_mbpand is it something you or someone like you would understand and use00:50
timeless_mbpif it needs to be presented some other way, i need help :)00:51
timeless_mbpshould it be in bold on its own line like the search too long bit?00:51
lcuki would be more frustrated at hitting the limit than the suggestions offered to be honest, most of the time - a person wouldnt come to a search like that after one iteration00:51
lcukso in that scenario, it helps randomly, but the user would normally just click back if they are told the query was too long00:52
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timeless_mbpi'm assuming the original query was something like this:00:53
timeless_mbphttp://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/search?string=hildon_file_selection_new_with_model&find=.&findi=&filter=^[^\0]*%24&hitlimit=&tree=diablo00:53
timeless_mbpand that it took too long00:53
timeless_mbpexcept atm it's not taking too long afaict00:54
lcukwhat if you told them the same00:55
lcukbut ran the query with the 29chars00:55
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lcukstill give the warning00:56
lcukbut least then they get the first section00:56
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timeless_mbpi do01:12
timeless_mbpthe reason the original url gave no output is it was told to only search files named 'xxx'01:13
timeless_mbpoddly, some files do have 'xxx' in their name01:13
lcukahh01:13
timeless_mbpso it really did do some work01:13
timeless_mbpjust not much, which made the query fast01:13
lcuklol, mostly depends on what you are searching for01:13
lcukok understood01:13
lcukin that context then, its less of an issue01:13
lcukit just looked wrong you not trying at all01:13
timeless_mbphistorically it wouldn't try at all01:14
timeless_mbpbut i changed that a while ago01:14
timeless_mbpthis is technically an unrelated improvement01:14
timeless_mbpalthough i'm hard pressed to come up w/ a case where it's helpful01:14
timeless_mbpother than this one01:14
lcukheh ok01:15
* timeless_mbp will try it on gecko code to see if it's useful01:15
lcuki have to vanish, jakes runnin amok and should be fast asleep01:16
lcukill catch you later timeless :)01:16
timeless_mbpoh01:17
timeless_mbpnow i know why it's doing the wrong thing01:17
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pupniki wish i could make the hypnotoad sound play when i joined a room01:29
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Macerok01:39
Maceri give up on all my n810 stuff01:39
Macerit's pointless :)01:39
* Macer flashes and puts maemo on it to stay01:40
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Maceri'll be better off just selling it later after i get an n900 or whatever the want to call it01:46
Maceror my vapor book touch01:46
Macerhaha01:46
lcukn810 is an extremely capable machine01:46
lcukeven if used purely as a remote control with bluemaemo :)01:46
Macersure, with maemo on it :)01:46
Macerall the alternatives don't work or suck01:47
pupnikwhat isn't working Macer ?01:47
Macerwell. mer has a ton of gui issues01:48
timeless_mbplike what?01:48
Macergentoo wno't boot because it's literally trying to boot from /dev/{EXT_CARD}p1 (where it can't find its linuxrc01:48
Macertimeless_mbp: edit the menu01:48
Macerthe application menu01:48
Maceryou get stuck01:48
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Maceror...01:48
* timeless_mbp grumbles01:48
Maceredit the network connections01:48
timeless_mbpthe registration thing for maemo summit isn't honoring my privacy settings01:49
* timeless_mbp kicks someone01:49
Maceryou get stuck again with no way to get out short of either sshing (which didn't work because it kept asking for my password over and over(01:49
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Macerthe strings in the gui are totally borked :)01:49
timeless_mbpe.g.?01:49
Macerso yo uhave things like hildon_didnt_change_this_ok01:49
Macerwhere just OK should be01:49
timeless_mbpoh01:49
timeless_mbpwell um01:49
Macer:)01:49
Maceri mean that's cosmetic01:50
timeless_mbpthose are because mer is using an old hildon01:50
Macerbut the spots where you get totally stuck01:50
Macerlike i said.. the application menu editor01:50
Macerand the network editor01:50
timeless_mbpi don't really want to maintain diablo hildon strings together with fremantle hildon01:50
Macerare major bugs :)01:50
pupniknewp01:50
Maceras though a screen behind the one you are on01:50
timeless_mbpi'm not even sure how one edits similar things in fremantle01:50
Macerhas taken over the screen01:50
Macerbut you can't get to it because there is one in front of it01:51
pupniknewp to timeless_mbp, not Macer sory01:51
timeless_mbp"newp" ?01:51
pupnikthat does sound like a bug01:51
pupnikthe short version of 'nope'01:51
Macerpupnik: well. when trying to edit the network01:51
Macerthe "key access" screen is in teh background01:51
pupnikd'oh01:51
Maceryou can't click ok because the key access menu has taken control01:51
timeless_mbpnetwork = network-manager01:51
Macerso you're basically just stuck01:51
timeless_mbpnetwork-manager = disaster01:51
timeless_mbpi tried translating it once01:52
Macertimeless_mbp: i don't think it is that01:52
timeless_mbpi have the strings i did somewhere01:52
Maceri think it is another major bug01:52
Macerbecause01:52
timeless_mbpi don't think i gave them to sts yet01:52
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Macerit does the same thing01:52
pupnikMacer, i suspect that a lot of gui-stuff is still unfinished01:52
Macerwhen ediing the application menu01:52
timeless_mbpi think they're likely to drop nm in favor of something else01:52
Maceris there a way to run stock hildon in mer?01:52
zerojayPCWhat's the name of the syslogd for maemo again?01:52
pupnikor rather gui-helper apps.  You should have a running terminal to do anything you want ;)01:52
timeless_mbpsysklogd01:52
zerojayPCThanks01:52
Macerinstead of the mer one?01:52
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timeless_mbpMacer: stock hildon from maemo4.1 or from maemo5.0?01:53
Macerfrom diablo01:53
timeless_mbpthe problem is that the strings are from maemo5.001:53
timeless_mbpyou could install the diablo strings from enus1 in extras-devel01:53
timeless_mbpthat should give you fewer foo_bar_baz_strings01:54
Macertimeless_mbp: if i could get to the menus to do it01:54
Macerhaha01:54
Macerbut the menu editing was a deal breaker01:54
Macereverything is in extras01:54
Macerand you can't move it with the gui01:54
* timeless_mbp pokes repository.maemo.org with a stick01:54
Macereverything is put into extras by default no matter where you tell it to go in the menu01:54
timeless_mbplanguage-support-translations-enus1 is the package01:55
timeless_mbpif you want to install it w/ apt01:55
timeless_mbphttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/l/01:55
Maceri'd have to re-install mer first01:55
timeless_mbpit will pull in ~70 packages01:55
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Macerwhich honestly. i think i'll just wait until my n810 is obsolete01:55
Macerand run maemo on it01:55
Macerand shove it in my car like i was going to01:55
Macer;)01:55
Macerand wait for my vaporbook touch01:55
timeless_mbpapple vaporbook?01:55
Macerno01:55
Macertouch book01:55
Macervaporware edition01:55
Maceri might actually just get a smartq701:56
Macerand put debian on it :)01:56
* timeless_mbp doesn't know that vendor01:56
Macertimeless_mbp: made by always innovating01:56
Macerit's their version of the pandora01:56
lcukwithout a keyboard01:57
lcukand with a bigger screen01:57
lcukand no nobbles01:57
zerojayPCtimeless_mbp: Eh... apparently, it cannot be found, even though i remember it being sysklogd like you said. ;/01:57
lcukand a battery so big i think lifetime is measured in weeks01:57
timeless_mbpzerojayPC: what dist and what repos?01:57
Macerlcuk: haha01:58
Macerhence, vaporware01:58
zerojayPCtimeless_mbp: Standard diablo.01:58
Macerthe company literally said they were shipping01:58
lcuksmartq7 is nice01:58
Macerand yet nobody has gotten 1 in 3 weeks01:58
Macerlcuk: yeah01:58
Maceri was going to get one and run debian on it01:58
zerojayPCMaybe it's in extras-devel?01:58
MacerREAL debian01:58
Macerhaha01:58
lcukits only marginally more powerful than the 810 tho isnt it01:58
lcuklbt, you know better than most01:59
timeless_mbprepository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/s/sysklogd/01:59
jeremiahI saw one in Copenhagen and it looked pretty cheap to me.01:59
timeless_mbpit used to be there in chinook01:59
lbt?01:59
jeremiah(the smartq7)01:59
Macerheh01:59
lbtQ7... it's v. similar to N800  CPU up to 667 though01:59
Maceri think it was like 67701:59
Maceryah02:00
Maceri'm wondering if it acts more like a pc though than the n80002:00
lbtNo02:00
lbtit's a big tablet02:00
Macerwhat OS does it run?02:00
lbtkinda cute when you plug a  USB keyboard in though02:00
lbtand use the terminal maximised02:01
lbtMer of course02:01
Macerno i mean02:01
Macerseriously02:01
Macer:)02:01
Macerwhat does it come with haha02:01
lbtfairly vanilla ubuntu IIRC02:01
Macerah ok02:01
lbtsome extra menus - I took piccies02:01
lbtit's not good02:01
Macerit's like $250 or so right?02:02
Maceror something like that?02:02
lbtit varies02:02
lbtsounds right02:02
Macerhow's battery life?02:02
lbtgoshawk sells them with a 2yr warranty IIRC02:02
Macersame as this aspire 1?02:02
Macerheh02:02
lbtnot great - Mer still has issues in that area02:02
lbtwe need to get the kernel to work with powertop02:03
* Macer won't start with the mer issues02:03
Macer:)02:03
lbtI thought you ran gentoo ?02:03
Maceri tried02:03
Macerwouldn't boot02:03
Macerhad the fb working and everything02:03
Macerwhich was actually cooler in maemo than gentoo02:04
lbtah, I got confused - I mean, mer has some minor issues atm02:04
Macerwould try to literally use {EXT_CARD}p102:04
lbtbut it just works on my Q7 and N80002:04
Maceras though the string isn't getting passed off to it or something02:04
Macerwho knows02:04
Maceri gave up02:04
lbtI only boot diablo for liqbase02:04
Macerand just started to put stock maemo on02:04
lbtfair enough02:04
lbtmaybe try again on 0.1602:04
Maceryeah02:04
lbtwe need devs really02:05
Maceri'll probably check it every 5 vers or so ;)02:05
Macerhaha02:05
lbtI'm surprised how few seem to actually be helping out02:05
Macerlast one i tried before 0.15 was 0.902:05
Macerand honestly02:05
Macerthe gui seems the same :)02:05
Macerhorribly immature and broken02:06
Maceri mean i'm sure you guys did a ton of work on the base.. but yeah.. i'm not too bad with this stuff and it like... is wow02:06
lbtwell, neither me nor sts are gtk coders - and "community developed" doesn't mean "wait for someone else to do it"02:06
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Macerlbt: not a CS major ;)02:06
lbtyeah, I didn't mean you specially02:07
Macertruth be told02:07
Maceri think someone will simply port maemo 5 over to the n81002:07
Macerlater on :)02:07
Macerand i dont mean mer02:08
lbterr, Mer is maemo5 ported to the n81002:08
lbtthe free bits02:08
Maceryah well..02:08
Maceri have the feeling someone will port actual maemo 5 over02:08
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lbtmore likely if we get more drivers02:09
lbtanyhow... it's late02:09
lbt'night all02:09
Macergood night02:09
pupnikmmm A-One beef ramen is relatively good02:11
jeremiahRelative to what? Dog food?02:13
pupnikother ramen brands, silly02:14
* timeless_mbp grins02:15
pupniknot sure it's worth the cost02:15
timeless_mbpi had fun w/ a bug last week02:15
timeless_mbpsomeone filed a bug, and was told that they were smoking something02:15
timeless_mbpsomeone defended the bug filer02:15
timeless_mbpi called the defender by phone and then chewed him out while he was on speaker phone02:15
timeless_mbpthen i verified the bug as invalid indicating he had agreed by phone (i had a number of ear witnesses)02:16
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timeless_mbpsomeone was afraid the bug would be "reopened" because the wrong person did the verification, but it was closed recently, so i don't think the bug will try to return to the land of the living :)02:16
* pupnik rereads02:17
pupnikahhhh02:18
pupnikyes, likely :)02:18
timeless_mbpactually that summary is missing the point where i resolved the bug as invalid before the defender stepped in, but ...02:18
timeless_mbpso... one thing i ask of people here02:19
timeless_mbpcould you take some time and describe how/where you use your tablets02:19
pupnikwhere?02:19
timeless_mbpwhat sort of network environment (signal quality)02:19
timeless_mbpstationary, moving, @home, @work, @train02:19
pupnikhere? now?02:20
timeless_mbpunder those conditions, do you expect/tolerate different results? do you do different things?02:20
StskeepsMacer: we'd have gone with fremantle hildon desktop if we could. fact: it's too bloody tied up in clutter.02:20
timeless_mbpsurvey your last year or so02:20
javispedrotimeless, fwiw, I just read the logs -- hope I remember to do ident searches in the future :P02:20
Stskeepsand hence to the 3d drivers02:20
timeless_mbpjavispedro: =)02:20
timeless_mbpmxr should help you there, since it'll now suggest them :)02:21
lcukStskeeps, my god, your wife is forgiving lol02:21
lcuk:) hope you had a good day02:21
timeless_mbpalso, i think the front page has changed so now highlights ident search02:21
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timeless_mbpotoh, it doesn't do it in a way that means much if you don't know what it is02:22
lcuklbt, o_O i am the sticker for maemo02:22
lcukdoes liqbase run on your smartq02:22
StskeepsMacer: so before complaining i'd like to see you approach the problem better with absolutely no clear indication of how many parts of fremantle ui looked like, and design for that.02:22
javispedrothanks timeless and sorry if I caused too much mayhem :)02:23
timeless_mbpStskeeps: just reimplement windows 3.102:23
timeless_mbpjavispedro: nah, no problem02:23
timeless_mbpalthough it usually is better to include a url02:23
timeless_mbpthe fact that i had server logs is not typical02:23
timeless_mbp"something is broken"02:23
timeless_mbpis the input i usually get from a manager02:24
timeless_mbpand definitely does not endear them to me02:24
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timeless_mbpsince i work on web browsers, and web servers, people can usually say "this url <...> doesn't load"02:24
timeless_mbpand that is much easier to deal with than "something is broken"02:24
javispedrooh, I know that. "it doesn't work" instead of the way more useful even though still pretty generic "outputs useless data".02:25
javispedrosometimes I would pay to know that before I have to move my ass :P02:25
timeless_mbpanyway...02:26
timeless_mbpi'm considering talking about "problems facing mobile browser developers" at Maemo Summit02:26
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timeless_mbpalthough that's not a sexy title for a session02:27
* Stskeeps 'd try to hear that session02:27
timeless_mbp"why it would be bad if the browser bought you 2 cars when you were only trying to buy 1" might be better, if only a tad bit long02:28
timeless_mbpthat was the invalid bug btw02:28
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timeless_mbpanyway, it'd help me if people could describe (in mailto timeless@gmail)02:29
timeless_mbphow they try to use their "mobile" devices02:29
timeless_mbpespecially the wheres, whens, hows, expectations, failings,...02:29
timeless_mbpin a span of 2 days i had two people describing interesting scenarios02:29
timeless_mbpday 1, buying 2 cars. day 2, a chance to order two hotel rooms02:30
Stskeepsi often book train tickets.02:30
Stskeepsvery useful on the go.02:30
javispedrotimeless, will guess. he bought two cars because he tried to go back and the browser POST'd same data twice and some idiot on the server side did not handle that?02:31
javispedro*wild guess.02:31
timeless_mbpjavispedro: approximately02:31
timeless_mbpit was actually he wanted the browser to automatically POST again if he intentionally changed networks02:31
timeless_mbp(or accidentally changed networks, he didn't care)02:31
timeless_mbpi had to explain to him why it would be a bad idea to buy two cars for the user02:32
timeless_mbpit was a very very funny conversation, and my coworkers enjoyed it02:32
javispedrothat scenario happened to me.. on fax.02:32
timeless_mbpwow02:32
timeless_mbpif you could transcribe your story and send it to me by email, that'd be great02:33
timeless_mbpi'd love to be able to mention it when i give my talk02:33
javispedroit's not tablet related :P02:33
timeless_mbpno, but it's related in that it explains how these things can happen02:33
t_s_owhy am i reminded of the cuban crisis...02:33
timeless_mbpand why browsers can't simply do certain things02:33
timeless_mbpt_s_o: cuban missile or some other crisis?02:34
t_s_othat would be the one02:34
timeless_mbpwell, there was water between me and the reporter02:34
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timeless_mbpmostly a lot of land02:34
t_s_oheh02:34
timeless_mbpwhich given that the instigator of the crisis was russia and not cuba02:35
timeless_mbpi guess the same would apply (all of europe being mostly land)02:35
timeless_mbpthere was also a language barrier02:35
timeless_mbp(only one of us spoke English natively, even though we were all ostensibly conversing in it)02:35
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timeless_mbpthe moves were telegraphed (if you consider bugzilla a telegraph like thing)02:36
pupniktimeless_mbp: do i understand correctly that you would like concrete examples rather than "i websurf a lot at home, less on the go"02:36
timeless_mbpconcrete examples would definitely be better02:37
timeless_mbpe.g. saying "i use my device in an airplane" or "i use my device on a train"02:37
javispedrowhat I learnt is that this scenario should be handled server side. something can & will go wrong on the client (disconnection while downloading response page, or, as in my case, the fax software (outlook, go figure) wrongly considering it didn't went through ).02:37
timeless_mbpisn't as good as "i use my device weekly on roundtrip plane rides from WAS to SFO"02:37
timeless_mbpjavispedro: well, thing is, while it'd be nice if servers weren't stupid02:38
timeless_mbpin fact, they are :)02:38
pupnik... "to access ...."02:38
timeless_mbpnote that if you're using planes, you should mention whether they have WiFi allowed or banned and GPRS allowed or banned02:39
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pupniki'm wondering if you're more interested in what situations one uses it in, or what kinds of sites / transactions people do02:39
timeless_mbpif you're using trains, please indicate if your service has WiFi, or various fluctuations in GPRS network conditions02:39
timeless_mbpwell, thing is02:39
timeless_mbpimagine you could have a device02:40
timeless_mbpand you only used it in your home02:40
timeless_mbpwhy would you care how big/bulky/heavy it was?02:40
timeless_mbpor how long its battery lasted?02:40
pupnikbecause i have to do a lot of work at home and need to be mobile02:40
javispedroeasy: night bed reading.02:40
pupnikmaybe *your* home is a cardboard box...02:40
timeless_mbpif you only use it at home and at work, and both are capable of charging it, why do you care how long its battery lasts?02:40
timeless_mbpthings like that02:41
pupnika ok02:41
timeless_mbpdo you actually use it while walking from point A to point B in a building?02:41
pupnikwell that got me started02:41
timeless_mbpwhy?02:41
timeless_mbpetc.02:41
timeless_mbpfwiw, i walk around Nokia w/ my MacBook Pro open02:41
javispedrotimeless, open a tmo thread :)02:41
timeless_mbpso that i can keep my irc sessions alive02:41
timeless_mbpjavispedro: open one for me and summarize the results ;-)02:42
* timeless_mbp isn't touching tmo02:42
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kfx18:39 < timeless_mbp> so that i can keep my irc sessions alive02:42
zerojayPCI love how it's almost impossible to convince apt-get that there's a deb in the current directory that I'd like to install.02:42
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kfxthis sounds like someone who needs to man screen02:42
zerojayPCapt-get install ./crap.deb doesn't work.02:42
zerojayPCapt-get install crap.deb doesn't work.02:43
timeless_mbpzerojayPC: dpkg -i foo.deb02:43
kfxzerojayPC: dpkh -i02:43
zerojayPCok02:43
kfxTOO SLOW, KFX02:43
kfxalso too typoed02:43
timeless_mbpkfx: i have scree sessions02:43
kfxI give up forever02:43
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* timeless_mbp points to timeless 02:43
timeless_mbpsreen02:43
timeless_mbpscreen02:43
timeless_mbpok, i seem to really need food02:43
kfxseems like a lot of work to maintain an extra irc session02:43
timeless_mbpwell, it isn't the only reason02:43
kfxI know02:44
kfxsecretly, you just want everyone to know you have a mac02:44
timeless_mbpthe point is that in a building, i don't mind carrying a laptop02:44
timeless_mbpkfx: a mac that required something like 3 layers of approvals :)02:44
timeless_mbp(after a mac purchasing freeze!)02:44
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kfxI hope you then installed slackware on it, just to spite the purchasing dept02:45
timeless_mbpso yeah, there could be something to that ;-)02:45
timeless_mbpum, no02:45
timeless_mbpbut i do have virtualbox, w7, opensolaris, and mer on it :)02:45
kfxman I'm about to have to brush up on solaris02:45
kfx:(02:45
timeless_mbpthe purchasing department isn't a problem02:46
kfxI was looking at canadian sysadmin jobs and they all demand solaris experience and I can't figure out why02:46
timeless_mbpthe reimbursement and it service departments otoh02:46
timeless_mbpactually, i'm not trying very hard w/ the reimbursement department02:46
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I dun own you shit.02:59
GeneralAntillesohwait02:59
lcukheh, GeneralAntilles drunken promises again :P03:02
* GeneralAntilles doesn't drink.03:02
lcukcatnip?03:03
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GeneralAntillesSnorting silicon.03:08
t_s_ohigh on /dev/random?03:09
GAN800lbt, anything in particular you're pointing me to on m-vo's blog?03:11
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lcukGAN800, he mentions they are using the new categories03:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, yeah, I've known that since, like, last year. ;)03:54
timeless_mbpGAN800: you didn't promise a ui refresh for mxr?03:54
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, sorry, I did, just being silly/unhelpful. ;)03:54
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: so... any idea when maemo.org leaves beta?03:58
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I want to organize a meeting before that point.04:01
GeneralAntillesI think we need to kill and reorg some content before then.04:01
timeless_mbpbefore or after summit?04:01
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/community/ for instance04:01
GeneralAntillesHas a lot of crap in it.04:01
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GeneralAntillesHopefully before04:02
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GeneralAntillesIdeally this month.04:02
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zerojayPCI just got Facebook chat working through RTCOMM.04:13
zerojayPC:)04:13
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zerojayPCEh... and somehow broke MSN's contact list doing so. Hmm.04:38
timeless_mbpheh04:41
zerojayPCStill online.. just that it's not showing them as online or not.04:42
* timeless_mbp goes back to stupid strings04:42
zerojayPCI'll figure it out.04:42
timeless_mbpGAN800: did you see my latest funny?04:42
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* timeless_mbp sighs05:15
* timeless_mbp wants to strangle a bunch of people05:15
timeless_mbpnormally we don't use "the", except, on rare occasions when it doesn't belong, then we do!05:16
zerojayPCHah.05:17
zerojayPCRobot101: ping?05:17
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, missed it I think.05:19
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timeless_mbphello world05:59
timeless_mbpsuppose you encounter a file05:59
timeless_mbpit seems to be a movie05:59
timeless_mbpand you try to play it05:59
timeless_mbponly it turns out that you haven't purchased it05:59
timeless_mbpwhat sort of message could your computer give to you to explain why it can't play it?05:59
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zerojayPC"The license for this movie could not be found. Please head to the Ovi store to buy a license to play it."06:08
zerojayPCOr replace "movie" with content for a more generic response.06:08
kfx"you stole this.  report to the ticktockman to have your cardioplate wiped."06:09
* timeless_mbp doubts the Ovi store will accept visitors ;-)06:10
zerojayPCHeh.. well, if you wanna parse it that way... ;)06:11
timeless_mbpwould "LIcense file not found." be sufficient?06:12
timeless_mbpor do i actually have to say "Can't play file" ?06:12
timeless_mbp(I won't use a capital I, i promise)06:13
kfxcombine 'em06:14
timeless_mbpCan't play, license file not found.06:14
kfx"License required to display this content."06:14
kfxyeah06:14
timeless_mbpif you were expecting an XML file and you encountered a CSV file06:15
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kfx"Sensible data format encountered; crazy moon language expected."06:16
kfxthen I'd segfault06:16
timeless_mbpheh06:16
Proteoushah06:16
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Luke-Jrtimeless_mbp: that would be a lie06:23
timeless_mbpLuke-Jr: which? the CSV or the XML?06:23
Luke-Jr[22:14:41] <timeless_mbp> Can't play, license file not found.06:23
Luke-Jrthat should be "Won't play, because you don't really own your computer"06:24
kfxs/Ca/Wo/;06:24
timeless_mbpso ...06:25
timeless_mbpif the license file is actually the decryption key06:25
Luke-Jrthen call it that? ☺06:25
Luke-Jrhmm06:25
Luke-Jrthat could be used in some evil DRM...06:25
Luke-Jruse part of the computer info as part of the decryption key06:26
Luke-JrI guess someone could extract that info and save/share it, but then he'd be caught06:26
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timeless_mbpthat's not the point06:32
timeless_mbpthe point is that the file they have really isn't sufficient for the player to play it06:32
timeless_mbpi could say "Can't play media, decryption key is missing"06:32
Luke-Jryes06:32
Luke-Jryour point was valid06:32
Luke-Jrso I moved on06:32
timeless_mbpbut that wouldn't mean much to a normal human06:32
Luke-Jrhow about06:32
Luke-Jr"I can play this, but it'll look like static without a license file"06:33
timeless_mbpCan't play media, missing decryption key (license file)"06:33
timeless_mbpnot really06:33
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timeless_mbpthe file is /probably/ not valid w/o a decryption key06:33
timeless_mbpwhich means it couldn't even decide where to jump to06:34
Luke-Jrso generate random noise to make it believable06:34
timeless_mbplol06:34
timeless_mbpsorry, i'm a localizer06:34
Luke-JrXD06:34
timeless_mbpi don't have control over what the program does06:34
timeless_mbpok,... back to my XML/CSV06:34
timeless_mbphow to i explain to the user that the file wasn't in a format the program expected?06:35
Luke-Jr"wtf is this crap"06:35
timeless_mbpI don't really want to write "Can't decode/interpret/process file"06:35
timeless_mbpUnrecognized file format ?06:35
kfx"crazy ass garbage."06:36
kfx(segfault)06:36
timeless_mbpagain, i can't change program behavior06:36
timeless_mbpwell, that's not true06:36
timeless_mbpi probably *couldn't* cause it to crash06:36
timeless_mbperr06:36
timeless_mbpi probably *could* cause it to crash06:36
timeless_mbp:o06:36
Luke-Jryeah06:37
timeless_mbpbut apparently my fingers are more used to writing couldn't06:37
Luke-Jrset the size of the string to 48 TB06:37
kfxthat's a negative outlook06:37
kfxI've yet to meet the program I couldn't wreck up06:37
Luke-Jrmalloc(48 TB) usually crashes I think06:37
kfxtimeless_mbp: "Unable to render file:" followed by why not.  like (bad file format|license not found|this is a word document you idiot|how did you even get commodore machine language on here)06:38
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zerojayPC"This file type could not be understood"?06:44
timeless_mbpi can't use "render" :)06:44
timeless_mbpand "understood" is problematic06:44
zakkmMacer: ping.? :P06:44
zerojayPCIs this string for a particular program or just for the OS in general?06:44
timeless_mbpparticular program06:44
kfx"File incomprehensible."06:45
zerojayPC[app name] could not recognize the file type of file [filename]?06:46
zerojayPCactually, lop off that last "file".06:47
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Macerhm06:57
Maceri'm starting to think06:57
Macerthat it would be easier to just install maemo and the debian chroot to get abiword with cups support06:57
Macerwonder how hard it would be to start it up06:57
zerojayPCWow, people still print shit on paper these days?06:58
Sho_Paper? Those were those very thin tree slices?07:01
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zakkmMacer: i bought that 23.3" 2048x1152 monitor :D07:06
Macerhow much was that thing?07:06
zakkm$215 usd after tax and all07:07
zakkmthe buttons on the monitor are touch sensitive :D07:07
zakkmthey arent even like push buttons07:07
Sho_wow, a button that is touch-sensitive.07:07
zakkmon a monitor?07:07
zakkmive never seen that07:07
zakkmrun Mac OSX too by the way.07:08
Sho_aren't buttons *always* touch-sensitive? ;)07:08
zakkmno07:08
zakkmwell eah in a way07:08
zerojayPCYou're talking about a button like the PS3's power and eject buttons?07:09
zerojayPCDoesn't look or feel like a button but acts like one anyways without anything really being pushed down?07:10
zakkmi guess so?07:10
zakkmyeah07:10
zakkmbutton that isnt pushed down07:10
zakkmi call it touch sensitive07:10
zakkmhttp://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/416aebb947.jpg :D07:12
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Stskeepsmorning08:41
qwerty12_N810morning08:41
zakkmmorning guys :)08:42
zerojayPCTakes Facebook a while before it gets someone's proper name instead of talking to just a numbered person you won't recognize.08:45
zerojayPCRTCOMM doesn't seem to understand Facebook avatars either. :/08:45
zakkmrtcomm still gets used?08:46
zakkmdoes anyone know how to get msn/haze working?08:46
zakkmor perhaps an alternate to haze08:46
zerojayPCWorks just fine.08:46
zerojayPCInstall qole's libpurple0.08:46
zakkmah08:46
zakkmlibpurple solution08:46
zerojayPCIt fixes the issue.08:46
zakkm:)08:46
zakkmi knew there was something, just forgotten :D thanks08:47
zakkmohh08:47
zerojayPCAnd a few hours ago, I got Facebook chat to work through RTCOMM.08:47
zakkmdo you know how to do it so it doesnt show everyoneee offline08:47
zakkmwhen you goto "new chat" ?08:47
zerojayPCYou don't have to do anything for that.08:47
zakkm?08:47
zakkmi have like 200 ppl on msn list, and 200 ppl on aim list08:47
zakkmso when i goto new chat.. it takess ages to load08:47
zerojayPCSame here.08:47
zakkmi want it just to show online ppl:p08:48
zerojayPCTakes maybe 3 seconds here.08:48
zakkmtakes me way longer08:48
zerojayPCList starts at the top of the list of everyone online for that protocol.08:48
zakkmyeah08:48
zakkmbut it still shows offline ppl doesnt it?08:48
zerojayPCAt the bottom of the list.08:49
zerojayPCwhich makes sense.08:49
zakkmbut it still shows08:50
zakkmand the fact that it shows.. makes it take long to load08:50
zerojayPCWell, they need to be shown anyways.08:50
zakkmshould be a way to hide :D08:51
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pabloin maemo, does "libglu1-mesa " exist?09:21
zakkmthere is no mesa is there?09:22
zakkmpablo: oh yes there is sorry09:22
zakkmnot in default repositories i dont think, but http://muksuluuri.unrealvoodoo.org/maemo/backup/?C=N;O=D seems to have it?09:22
pablothanks09:23
zakkmmgiht be OS2007 though.09:23
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Macerlcuk?09:50
Maceroh. not here09:50
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Macerdo people use ruby anymore?10:05
Macerwow10:06
Macersearch-gurgh-mughom10:06
Macerklingon dictionary search plugin10:06
Macerholy shit10:06
Macernow that is way beyond the nerd status quo10:06
VulcanisDOES YOUR IPOD TOUCH HAVE THAT, APPLE? DIDN'T THINK SO10:06
zakkmmhah10:06
Vulcanis*coughs, brushes suit* Sorry.10:06
Macerhahahaha10:07
Maceri'm sure it does ;)10:07
Vulcanisuh10:07
Vulcanisit uh, doesn't10:07
Macerit's probably ported10:07
VulcanisI've... checked...10:07
Vulcanis:\10:07
Macer:) hahhahaQ10:07
Macer!10:07
zakkmm;p10:07
Vulcanisit may be in some obscure jailbroken repo10:07
Vulcanisbut everything in those is pretty slow and unusable10:07
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zakkmmgot a iphone?10:08
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Macerzakkmm: my question was "why were you looking for a klingon dictionary?"10:09
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Maceri mean.. i like the show and all but... learning an imaginary language?10:09
Maceron the next star trek movie with the new kirk crew10:10
Macerthey are probably going to have the klingons speaking a different language10:10
Macerhaha10:10
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Macerjust to really throw the nerds off10:10
zakkmmits for ppl to talk to the nerds. not for learning  language ;p10:10
Macerlol10:10
Macerall 10 people who can probably speak it?10:10
Vulcanismacer, why not?10:11
zakkmmlike a sorta translator10:11
VulcanisI mean, sometimes you have to understand people who speak it10:11
* Macer pictures dr hawkings with a klingon voice box10:11
Vulcanisand its a written language too10:11
zakkmmo ibet its more10:11
Macerlol10:11
Vulcanisbut its more like learning a few phrases in random languages just to confuse people10:11
Maceruh huh10:11
Vulcanisor those people who can swear in 72 languages but can barely form coherent sentances in their primar10:12
Vulcanisy10:12
zakkmmwhy not just talk jibberish?10:12
Vulcanisbecause thats not a language :\10:12
zakkmmbut ythey dont know that10:12
Vulcanisjust talk in a +2 caeser cypher10:12
Macerone day he is going to be swearing in klingon at someone. and they're going to start swearing back10:13
Vulcanisno I am not.  I have more class than that.10:13
zakkmmif u talk in klingon. i swear i would think u just said random stuff10:13
MacerVulcanis: hahaha10:13
Maceri would think that he is either crazy or a loser and disregard his existance10:13
Macer:)10:13
VulcanisYou can't disregard the existance of someone you think is a madman10:14
Vulcanisthey generally have knives.10:14
zakkmmdoes it say who made package?10:14
Vulcaniswatch your back.10:14
Macerlike i said. it was a revolutionary show.. but to learn klingon.. that's taking it a little too far10:14
Macerlike stalkers10:14
Vulcanisits a dictionary10:14
Vulcanisyou don't read a dictionary to learn english10:14
MacerVulcanis: :-P a klingon wouldn't stab someone in the back10:14
Macerthat's cowardly10:14
Macersee! you don't even watch the show!10:15
Macerlol10:15
Macerbbl10:15
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VulcanisEh, the earth is full of weaklings atm :\10:15
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Macerhm10:16
Maceri remember someone here having a problem with bridging a connection over 2 subnets with iptables10:16
Maceri was wondering.. doesn't vpn kind of work the same way? :)10:16
Macerwell. maybe not10:16
Maceram i reading that right?10:17
MacerWormus 51MB10:17
Macerthat shit better have some sort of holographic activation on the N81010:17
Macerer.. Wormux10:17
Macerhm10:18
Macerwell. bbl10:19
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slonopotamusanyone knows what's /mnt/initfs/bin/usbflasher ?11:07
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: i'm honestly not sure11:28
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Stskeepsall flashing seems to happen in nolo11:28
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lbtjeremiah: hey maemian man11:36
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lcukmornin LinuxCode13:58
LinuxCodemorning mate13:58
LinuxCodejust about morning hehe13:58
LinuxCode1 minute to lunch ;-p13:59
lcuklbt, you mentioned you only have diablo for liqbase now, are you getting into using it13:59
lcukheh13:59
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lbtlcuk: I'd like to have it more 'to hand' - it's a pain booting back to diablo14:02
lcukwhich version are you using14:02
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lbtdunno - I'm in Mer... can't tell14:03
lbtmust be the latest though14:04
lcukthe zooming playground, or the solid classic?14:04
lbtboth14:04
lcukheh, well the playground is where i am spending time14:05
lcukwe need bug reporting, but since its not garage based, hold on14:05
lcukit would be good for you to let me know what happens when you run it - send me a console log if possible soon and ill see what i can do14:06
* lcuk loves being able to finally alpha blend any rectangle. (had the blending function for ages, but not the interface for normal stuff)14:07
lcuklbt, did you see zacks' final gsoc report :) http://blog.zachhabersang.com/?p=18714:09
lcukhes put together an installation guide and dev tutorial for getting started with liqbase stuff :) http://blog.zachhabersang.com/14:10
Macerlcuk: msgd you14:12
Maceri'm installing debian on one of my boxes14:12
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Macer:)14:30
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Macerhm14:34
Macerwill mer have encrypted lvms on the SD soon ?14:35
Macer:)14:35
Macerthat would be neet14:35
Maceroh wait. i don't know if ubuntu does that does it?14:35
Maceri know debian does14:35
lcuktry and build it14:35
Maceri would but i couldn't ssh into my mer install14:36
Macer:)14:36
Macerwould keep asking me to change my pw over and over14:36
Macergoing to install kde4 on this debian box now14:36
Maceri like kwin14:36
Macermostly because from what i've gathered the developers decided to build it from the ground up because they wanted their own composite manager instead of using compiz14:37
Macerwhich i think was a good idea14:37
qwerty12_N810lol, didn't know Maemo's OpenSSH got an update :)14:38
Macer:)14:38
MacerGO MAEMO!14:38
Macerjust proof that it's not dead yet!14:39
Macerand people should stop poking at it with a stick14:39
Macerdebian still has kde4.2 marked as unstable14:40
Macerwtf? :)14:40
qwerty12_N810Sounds about right...14:40
rkirtikde is instability personified14:41
Macerhaha14:41
pupnikwill it lbend?14:42
pupnikeh nice typo14:42
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Macerstrange.... it is in testing/main14:43
Macerand not in "volatile"14:43
Macer:)14:43
Macervolatile sounds a lot more scary than testing14:43
Macerftp.de.debian.org is giving me 30KB/s14:43
Maceri guess because i missed that last spot that says "you should replace ftp.de to one closer to you14:44
* timeless_mbp sighs14:45
timeless_mbp> Give us your oppinion!14:45
timeless_mbpcould someone please tell Raul Herbster to use a spell checker?14:45
qwerty12_N810spl chkr?14:45
Meizirkki$p3|| ¿h€cR14:47
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Macergo debian go14:51
Macerkde4 is kind of a bitch to install in debian14:51
Macer:)14:51
* Meizirkki is playing around with kubuntu karmic on his n810 (KDE 4.3) OMFGLOLWTF?14:52
* timeless_mbp grumbles14:52
Meizirkki:D14:52
* Macer bloats the shit out fo this box14:52
timeless_mbpdoes lma use irc?14:52
MacerMeizirkki: how?14:52
Macer:)14:52
Meizirkkinah, the only part of karmic is the kde14:53
Maceri wanted to try doing that in gentoo but it wouldn't boot and i never figured out why :(14:53
Meizirkkii installed mer, applied kramic repo and apt'd KDE14:53
Meizirkkiso easy14:53
Macerlol14:54
Meizirkkibut KDE is ****slow14:54
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lcukits not slow, find some drug that alters your perception and it will appear quick14:54
qwerty12_N810lcuk: on that note, how's liqos coming along?14:56
lcuki smile everytime i see that, but i havent got an os14:56
lcuktho, what is an os14:57
qwerty12_N810~os14:57
infobothmm... os is (Operating System) The program that allows you to access the basic functions of your computer. It is the minimum software required to run a program. The best one by far is the MacOS.14:57
slonopotamus914:57
lcuki can see infobot has been taking those drugs14:57
qwerty12_N810(Not sure about the last part, but, hey, it seems accurate enough)14:58
timeless_mbpinfobot: os =~ s/MacOS/Mac OS X/14:58
infobottimeless_mbp: OK14:58
timeless_mbpslonopotamus: 9+1 :)14:58
lcuk~os14:58
infobotmethinks os is (Operating System) The program that allows you to access the basic functions of your computer. It is the minimum software required to run a program. The best one by far is the Mac OS X.14:58
qwerty12_N810BS :)14:58
lcukoooh you update it that easily14:58
rkirti|afkhere's a snippet from what a classmate said in our os course - "briefest definition of OS-  a bootloader for emacs"14:58
timeless_mbpinfobot: os =~ s/is the/is/14:59
infobotOK, timeless_mbp14:59
lcuktimeless i gather that involes you having super bot control powers14:59
timeless_mbpno, but i do run an infobot14:59
slonopotamusSuper Cow Powers?14:59
timeless_mbpinfobot: status14:59
infobotSince Tue Aug  4 17:51:10 2009, there have been 59 modifications, 866 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 369 commands.  I have been awake for 11d 18h 8m 38s this session, and currently reference 116385 factoids.  I'm using about 22280 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 26559.57/994.61 child 0.09/0.0514:59
qwerty12_N810timeless_mbp: I hope feeding the bot with false information will stay forever on your conscience14:59
lcukinfobot: os =~ s/Mac OS X/maemo/15:00
infobotOK, lcuk15:00
lcuk:D15:00
lcuk~os15:00
infoboti heard os is (Operating System) The program that allows you to access the basic functions of your computer. It is minimum software required to run a program. The best one by far is the maemo.15:00
lcuk"the maemo" :D15:00
timeless_mbpinfobot: os =~ s/is the/is/15:00
infobotOK, timeless_mbp15:00
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qwerty12_N810<GeneralAntilles> os =~ s/maemo/Maemo/ </GeneralAntilles>15:00
timeless_mbpinfobot: os =~ s/it is/it is the/15:01
infobottimeless_mbp: OK15:01
lcukhahahahahahah15:01
Maceromg installing kde4 in debian is a bitch15:01
Macerheh15:01
* Stskeeps passes qwerty12_N810 some wedding cake15:02
qwerty12_N810Oh, congrats Stskeeps!15:03
MacerStskeeps: didn't run out huh?15:03
Macer:)15:03
Stskeepsway too big cake15:03
Macercongrats on your wedding15:03
Stskeepsthanks15:03
Macerbut be warned they don't call it "the plunge" for nothing15:03
timeless_mbpcongrats15:03
Macerbut i wish you the best ;)15:03
Macerand hope it doesn't wind up like reiser15:03
* Macer is wondering if i should be replacing all this gnome stuff while IN gnome15:04
Macer:)15:04
Macerweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!15:04
Stskeepsnah, mine isn't russian and doesn't have dubious connections15:04
Stskeeps:P15:04
* timeless_mbp sighs15:07
slonopotamusany reverse-engineers? :) i need to find out what fields of CAL conf block (and in what order) libcal uses to calculate crc3215:07
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timeless_mbpslonopotamus: if you get it wrong, do you brick the device? :)15:07
Stskeepsgood guess would be the data part, or header crc: header with crc set to 015:07
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, no, it doesn't modify anything15:08
slonopotamusStskeeps, 1 sec...15:08
slonopotamusStskeeps, http://git.slonopotamus.org/?p=opendsme;a=blob;f=src/libopencal.c;hb=HEAD#l81 here's header struct15:09
slonopotamusStskeeps, last field is header crc15:10
* slonopotamus hopes he uses same algorithm as libcal :D15:10
Stskeepsslonopotamus: then it's the header with crc as 0 probably15:11
Stskeeps(basically, set all other header fields than crc, which should be 0, take crc, and -then- set hdr_crc15:11
Stskeepsthat's the usual tactic15:11
slonopotamusi'm reading existing data15:12
Stskeepsah15:12
slonopotamusso i read whole header with crc and now want to check its correctness15:12
slonopotamuscrc(all but hdr_crc) doesn't work15:13
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Stskeepsthen calculate crc of header as if hdr_crc was 015:13
slonopotamusno. more ideas? :)15:15
Stskeeps0xFFFFFFFF? ;)15:16
slonopotamusno :)15:16
Stskeeps0xDEADBEEF? ;p15:17
slonopotamuseven not 0xCAFEBABE15:17
slonopotamus0xDEADBABE :D15:17
Stskeepsif that's the value, that would scare me a bit15:18
slonopotamusdifferent blocks have different crc values15:18
slonopotamus0xDEFEC8ED ("defecated") is the magic number for OpenSolaris core dumps.15:19
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aolheh ... microsoft uses that 0xDEADBEEF for uninitialized values :)15:19
qwerty12_N8100xMSFTDEAD would be better15:20
slonopotamusw/e :) more ideas?15:21
lcuk:O http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?&id=160715:21
lcukat first i was like15:22
lcukbut hten i lolled :D15:22
Macerwell15:24
Macergot that working15:24
Macerslow as shit on this damn intel gpu tho15:24
Macer07:22   7:22am  up 55 days  2:54,  6 users,  load average: 0.03, 0.03, 0.0215:26
Macerdamn artigo 1GHz C7 is a champ :)15:26
Maceri should learn how to make zones in opensolaris15:27
slonopotamusthat's smth like freebsd jails?15:28
Maceryah15:28
lcukqwerty12_N810, didnt think hex went as far as M or T ;)15:29
Macerslonopotamus: hey. i followed your instructions to the T with installing gentoo on the n8x015:29
qwerty12_N810lcuk: go back to your Windows computer15:29
slonopotamus'to the T'?15:29
Macerit boot and the fb worked but it wouldn't mount / .. kept saying15:29
lcukim on it now!15:29
lcuktrying to work out how to configure sshfs :)15:30
Macer"failed to mount {EXT_CARD}p1"15:30
* lcuk has notes somewhere15:30
Macerso / wasn't mounting and i couldn't figure out why15:30
StskeepsMacer: ${EXT_CARD}p1 in botmenu? :P15:30
Stskeeps+o15:30
slonopotamusMacer, smth wrong in bootmenu config15:30
lcukgot it!15:30
slonopotamusMacer, $15:30
slonopotamusMacer, ?15:30
Maceri had it15:30
Maceri checked it 10 times ;) i just copied and pasted and changed the p3 to p115:31
Macerthe bootmenu.item was fine15:31
timeless_mbpMacer: i think i have some sample zones posted15:31
Macertimeless_mbp: really? never really tried it. i've just been using vbox on it15:31
timeless_mbphttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/solaris/source/osol/etc/zones/15:31
slonopotamusMacer, hmm... http://dpaste.com/81297/ here's my current config15:32
slonopotamusMacer, which bootmenu did you use?15:32
Macerthe one on your proj page15:33
Macer"booting gentoo on n8x0"15:33
slonopotamusStskeeps, explain your +o ?15:33
Macertimeless_mbp: that's it? :)15:33
timeless_mbphttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/solaris/source/osol/get_nexenta.sh15:33
Macerthat's all you have to do?15:33
timeless_mbpwell, zone conf files are really uninteresting15:33
Macerhaha15:33
Macerwhy nexenta in opensolaris?15:33
timeless_mbpto use apt to get sources for maemo15:34
timeless_mbpi didn't want to build apt myself15:34
Macerah. ok.15:34
timeless_mbp(it's doable, but a royal pain)15:34
timeless_mbp(i ended up doing it anyway, but that's another story)15:34
Macerlike dpkg in maemo4? ;)15:34
Macerhaha15:34
slonopotamusdamnit!15:34
Stskeepsslonopotamus: mywhatnow?15:34
slonopotamusMacer, quotes!!!15:34
Macerquotes?15:35
Stskeepsslonopotamus: botmenu +o = bootmenu15:35
Stskeeps:P15:35
slonopotamusMacer, there are single quotes!15:35
Maceri tried double too ;)15:35
Macerthought about that heh15:35
slonopotamustry harder :)15:35
slonopotamusit didn't eval variable15:36
Maceryah. that's what i tried15:36
Macerhm. ok. i'll try installing again in a few minutes15:36
slonopotamusor just write /dev/mmcblk1 ?15:36
Macertried that too ;)15:36
Macerbelieve me. i was working on it for a while15:36
Maceri am going to try to install it again in a few minutes15:36
Maceronce i get the reflashed maemo4 stuff set up again15:36
* timeless_mbp decides to try to get nexenta up again15:37
Macerlet me download the svn bootmenu15:38
Macerit should have the patch right?15:38
slonopotamusMacer, write ITEM_DEVICE="/dev/mmcblk1p1" ?15:38
Macertaht's what i used to install bootmenu while i was doing it15:38
Maceryes15:38
Maceri tried that15:38
Macerit seemed to pick up the string but still wouldn't mount /15:38
slonopotamusyeah, should have. you can even take mer bootmenu15:39
Maceri didn't have a way to keep the log of what it did15:39
Macerwell. i wanted just maemo15:39
Macerand.. layman -f wasn't in the instructions15:39
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slonopotamus-f ?15:39
Maceri just remembered it from using gentoo like 2 years ago15:39
Macerin your instructions you say to add the repo with layman -a n8x015:40
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slonopotamusyep. that's the way ppl add overlays :)15:40
Maceryou have to fetch the list of overlays first15:40
Macerwith layman -f15:40
Macerbootmenu-compat is also ~arm15:40
Macerrequires either adding it to package.(forgot.. unmask?) or just using ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~arm" during emerge15:41
slonopotamuspackage.keywords15:42
Macerthe locale for perl spits out error msg after error msg and i didn't quite figure out what to do there. i tried exporting it manually but still didn't work15:42
Macerexport LANG="en_US" or something like that15:42
Macerthere were other ones but i didn't look into them as much15:42
Macerlet me try installing again.. maybe there was just somethign i missed in the bootmenu config15:43
Stskeepsoh dear god, you're on gentoo now? :P15:44
slonopotamusexport LANG=C and LC_MESSAGES=C15:44
StskeepsMacer: gave up on debian package compilation in maemo? ;)15:44
slonopotamusStskeeps, he did smth wrong with bootmenu15:44
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MacerStskeeps: it's on pause for now :) but then again15:45
Macerif i can get gentoo working with an ok mobile X wm15:45
Macerthen maybe forever15:45
Macerheh15:45
slonopotamusheh. how do you like emerge speed? :)15:45
Macerslonopotamus: i checked it 10 times but i'll look at it15:45
Macerslonopotamus: lol. it was pretty bad ;)15:45
Macerbut then again i didn't emerge much15:45
slonopotamusi'm writing patches to make it faster15:46
slonopotamus2.2 rcs should be better15:46
Maceri just want it to boot15:46
Macerheh15:46
Macerthen i'll be a happy camper15:46
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slonopotamusStskeeps, do you have docs on manual bootmenu configuration?15:47
Maceri'm getting bootmenu  now15:47
Stskeepsslonopotamus: wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Bootmenu if any15:47
lcukarghhh user permissions prevent my evil plan from working15:48
StskeepsMacer: so far you're following a similar path .. we got tired of Maemo's oddities, so we started Debian, got a good mobile WM going, and realised the battery life was crap cos a desktop distribution simply doesn't work well on a mobile like this (4-6 hours of battery time, even idle)15:48
StskeepsMacer: so we realized why Maemo is constructed the way it is, and decided to analyze what could be done better, the Maemo Reconstructed proposal, and hence Mer was born :P15:48
MacerStskeeps: heh.... yah but i'd honestly choose "desktoplike" over battery life15:49
Stskeepsit's entirely possible to hack Mer to use Fluxbox, fwiw15:49
Stskeepssome people already does this.15:49
Macerbut then apps wouldn't obey the constraints of the screen real estate15:50
Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Fluxbox15:50
slonopotamusyeah, docs from http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Bootmenu are also ok15:50
Macerso you would get apps opening up going off screen :)15:50
Macerkde had that problem for a lot of the config windows15:50
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Macerwhich had a set size15:50
lcukand made assumptions about what "lowresolution" means nowadays15:51
lcuk"ive got so much stuff to fit on my screen, can i tell people to use 1600*1200 minimum?15:51
Stskeepsa lot of netbook issues are cos of 800x480, heh15:53
lcukyeah15:54
lcukis it possible to put an auto resize hack into gtk?15:54
lcukto scale contents15:55
lcukor would that just fsck up too much15:55
Macerslonopotamus: http://pastebin.com/d6ff90acc15:58
Macertaht's my gentoo.item now15:58
Maceruhm15:59
Macerok it's booting now15:59
Macerwtf :)15:59
slonopotamusquotes :)15:59
slonopotamusi fixed wiki page15:59
Macerno15:59
Maceri checked the quotes15:59
Maceri actually thought that was wrong15:59
Macerwhen i first saw it and used " instead15:59
slonopotamusmaybe you forgot to update initfs after fixing them?16:00
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slonopotamusw/e :) booted?16:00
Maceryah16:00
Macerhow do i use numbers from the n810 qwerty?16:00
slonopotamusno idea, i have n80016:01
Macerlol16:01
Macerwell.. shit16:01
slonopotamusi thing you can't fully use n810 kb in text mode16:01
Macernow i can't login :) my pw has numbers16:01
slonopotamushehe16:01
timeless_mbpclever16:01
slonopotamuspull out battery :)16:01
Macerhahaha16:01
slonopotamusno other way to reboot16:02
Maceri kind of thought the qwerty was going to work16:02
Macermaybe i have sshd going16:02
Macer(which i don't think i installed... SHIT"16:02
slonopotamusMacer, there are troubles with Fn key16:02
Macershould have emerged it while i was chroot16:02
slonopotamushmm16:02
slonopotamusno, it's emerged16:02
slonopotamusas part of ssh16:02
Macerbut the wifi isn't started anyways so it wouldn't matter16:03
Macer;)16:03
slonopotamusdoub't it autostarts16:03
Macertoo bad i don't have a usb adapter for a kb16:03
Macerwhat do you use to type on this thing when it's in gentoo?16:03
slonopotamusflorence vkb16:03
slonopotamusthat's in X16:04
Macerhow is bt support?16:04
slonopotamusin console - ssh, or pull out battery :)16:04
Maceri already did.. the wifi wasn't set up anyways16:04
Maceri had no networking16:04
Macerbut yeah16:04
Maceri wonder what i missed16:05
slonopotamusMacer, i use bt with phone for gprs16:05
Maceri probably didn't replace 1 '16:05
Macerhow's sound going?16:05
slonopotamusyou asked already16:05
Macerdid i ask you?16:05
Maceri remember Luke-Jr saying that it "might work with a newer kernel"16:05
slonopotamusno docs, but 'deblet needs sound' itt thread should work.16:05
Macershould be able to just do a quick mount/chroot to change the root pw right?16:06
slonopotamusyeah16:06
slonopotamusit's just normal gentoo installation :)16:07
slonopotamuswifi is setup as usual. use gentoo official docs if don't remember16:07
Macercan just do it manually too i'm guessing just to get it going quickly?16:08
Macerwith iwconfig and ifconfig?16:08
Macerwow. pretty nice stuff man :)16:08
Macerwhat are you running for a wm on it?16:08
slonopotamusi guess wireless-tools are not installed in that image16:09
Macerlol16:09
Macerso i have to install it in the chroot?16:09
slonopotamusyep16:09
Macergood thing i had to change the pw then ;)16:09
lcukshould these 2 commands be the same (from within scratchbox):16:10
lcukfakeroot dpkg-buildpackage -i -I.git16:10
lcukdpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -i -I.git16:10
MacerNokia-N810-43-7 / # emerge wireless-tools16:10
Maceroops16:11
slonopotamusMacer, that image is just minimal system (pretty same as you get from stage3 when installing on desktop) that is capable of rebuilding stuff16:11
Maceryeah... it's pretty nice16:11
slonopotamusmounted /proc, ?16:11
Macerhaven't used gentoo in quite a while16:11
Macercrap.. no :) shit16:11
zerojayPCRobot101:  Ping?16:12
slonopotamusMacer, http://dpaste.com/81308/ that's what i use before chrooting16:13
zerojayPCAnyone here worked on rtcomm or knows some stuff about osso-addressbook?16:13
slonopotamusMacer, http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0#using_in_chroot just repeat step 5 after reboots16:14
zerojayPCTelepathy-haze?16:16
Macerecho 'performance' > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor16:16
slonopotamusMacer, btw, check /usr/lib/libexpat.la libdir, plz.16:16
slonopotamusMacer, just cat /usr/lib/libexpat.la16:16
Macerwell. i'm only chrooting to fix a few things16:16
Maceri will after wireless-tools is done building16:17
Maceri'm installing it now16:17
Maceralthough that's not going to be much good either16:17
Macersince my wpa2 key has numbers :)16:17
Maceri guess i can set that up from here16:17
slonopotamushmm... don't you use wpa_supplicant?16:17
Macerdon't know yet16:18
Maceri haven't set up a wifi network in gentoo in like 2 years16:18
Maceri honestly think then i was using wep16:18
slonopotamusMacer, http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=416:19
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Macerwireless-tools supports nearly all cards and drivers, but it cannot connect to WPA only Access Points.16:21
Macerwell. that's not cool :)16:21
Macerseeing as i have a wpa only access point16:21
Macer emerge -C wireless-tools16:22
Macerwell.. i'll work on it.. slonopotamus.. thanks for the help. :)16:23
Macerif it's just gentoo i'm sure like 90% of the stuff can be gotten off the gentoo wikis16:24
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Maceri'm goign to eat up the whole 15G on the external SD messing around with gentoo :)16:31
Maceri'm a little nervous that wpa-supplicant needs vanilla-sources to build16:32
slonopotamusno16:33
slonopotamusinstall diablo-sources16:34
slonopotamusMacer, 4-6gb is enough16:34
slonopotamusMacer, of course it can be made smalller16:34
slonopotamusMacer, by dropping man/info pages, for example16:34
Macerah ok16:36
Macerso you can actually build a diablo kernel in gentoo?16:37
slonopotamusyep, why not16:37
slonopotamus~1.5h16:37
Macerhahaha16:37
Macerouch16:37
* Macer starts to build openoffice16:38
Macerheh.. just kidding16:38
Macerwhat did you say you use as a wm?16:38
Macerand how do you right click? :)16:38
Luke-Jr16:38
Luke-Jrrtfm16:38
Macer:-P16:38
slonopotamussome (minor) number of packages doesn't built because of not enough ram (wd reboots)16:38
slonopotamusMacer, i use gnome, but not completely happy with it16:39
MacerLuke-Jr: haha16:39
slonopotamusMacer, xf86-input-tslib supports right click emulation. read 'X setup' doc16:39
Macerah ok16:39
MacerLuke-Jr: :-P16:40
Macerok you were right16:40
slonopotamuserr wait16:40
Macerwill be nice once i get this all set up and booting into X16:40
slonopotamuswe have some docs on wireless16:40
Maceri'd still like to know how to ge the qwerty to work with symbols and numbers :)16:40
slonopotamusMacer, http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0/wireless16:40
Macerawesome. thanks16:41
slonopotamusMacer, all n810-specific questions -> Luke-Jr16:42
Macerhahaha16:42
MacerLuke-Jr: how do you get the qwerty to work with numbers/symbols? :)16:42
Luke-JrMacer: I made a keymap file, currently undocumented16:42
lcukhold down the shift key16:43
* Luke-Jr should make an ebuild for it16:43
slonopotamusFn problem?16:43
Luke-Jrit uses Menu as Fn16:43
lcukit doesnt have the stickykeys lock by default16:43
Luke-Jrlcuk: …16:43
lcukahh16:43
lcukeven moreso :P16:43
lcukwhenever ive mucked about with default x11 stuff this is the kidn of problem ive encountered16:43
lcukie anything without HIM ontop16:44
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* Macer looks at that statement16:44
slonopotamusMacer, in short, 'Fn' key is broken :) somewhere between kernel and X server16:44
MacerLuke-Jr: if you add it could you let me know?16:45
Macerwould be cool to use the numbers/symbols from the qwerty. in the meantime i'll work on pairing my su8w16:46
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: in console mode16:46
Luke-JrI did have Fn working in X once upon a time16:46
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MacerLuke-Jr: are you running kdm or something on startup?16:46
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Luke-Jrno16:47
Maceror gdm or something?16:47
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Luke-Jron the extremely rare occasion that I start X, I use startx16:47
slonopotamusMacer, either setup autologon or add "su - macer startkde" to /etc/conf.d/local ?16:48
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Macerslonopotamus: naw. that's ok. i'll just set a brute forcable style pw for now ;) and just startx until i get everything working16:48
* slonopotamus still can't understand why none of his kernels boot on his n80016:49
Macer  324 root     SW<        0     6 38.9  0.0 mmcqd16:49
Macerit's still installing diablo-sources16:51
slonopotamuswell, it's pretty big16:51
MacerLuke-Jr slonopotamus: thanks, this is pretty awesome16:51
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Macermaybe i can find a wm that is meant to be run on a small screen16:52
Stskeeps.. matchbox16:52
Stskeeps:P16:52
MacerStskeeps: that what you used for deblet? :)16:52
slonopotamusMacer, write ebuilds for hildon stuff :P16:53
StskeepsMacer: no, maemo uses matchbox wm16:53
Macerwow. that sounds good to me :)16:54
Maceri'll try it out16:54
Macerwould be awesome if someone was still working on qtablet16:55
Macer>>> Emerging (1 of 4) net-wireless/nokia-n8x0-firmware-0.3 from n8x016:55
Macerwow that is beyond awesome :) you guys must have done a bit of work on your repo16:55
slonopotamusnah, it's pretty small16:56
Macerbut it emerges the nokia wifi firmware ;)16:56
slonopotamusthat's... a hack :)16:56
Stskeepsslonopotamus: copies from initfs? :P16:56
Macerhahaha16:57
Macer(don't tell nokia!)16:57
slonopotamusStskeeps, nope, why? just symlinks16:57
Stskeepsslonopotamus: thought so :)16:57
slonopotamusStskeeps, :P16:57
MacerStskeeps was already calling a nokia lawyer slonopotamus16:57
Stskeepsnah16:57
Macerdon't trust him. he got maried. you can't trust men who just got married.. the evil woman is telling him to eat the apple16:58
Stskeepsslonopotamus: there's four ways to deal with the wifi firmware issue: 1) get a deal with nokia 2) grab it through updates repository 3) symlink from initfs 4) copy from initfs16:58
fureddoAnyone has the config file for sbdmock for diablo?16:58
GeneralAntillesEhehe http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=312118&postcount=6416:58
GeneralAntillesTrollin' Trollin' Trollin'16:59
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slonopotamusStskeeps, 5) find a country which allows redistribution and host copies there :)16:59
MacerGeneralAntilles: hahahaha16:59
Macerjust the topic itself...16:59
Macer"how can we encourage iphone developers to develop for maemo" ? :)17:00
GeneralAntillesWhy do we care?17:00
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: s/iPhone//g and i might actually agree with the first line :P17:00
GeneralAntillesThe vast majority of iPhone applications are garbage.17:00
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, bingo.17:00
MacerGeneralAntilles: you must have never used an android phoen17:00
Macer:)17:00
Stskeepsi think those threads are really just a symptom of what i called out on a year ago really17:00
GeneralAntillesIt's not important which application they're coming from, it's important that they're coming.17:01
Stskeepsthat maemo isn't sustainable the way it is right now :P17:01
* lcuk smiles17:01
GeneralAntillesMacer, only in passing. Didn't care for it.17:01
slonopotamuswhy 'we' want to encourage iphone devs to develop for maemo at all?17:01
qwerty12_N810Nokia needs to ship their device with a "Fuck you haters" poster17:01
MacerGeneralAntilles: well. the android market would put the iphone store to shame17:01
Macer:)17:01
Maceras far as crappy apps/games go17:01
Maceri think there are 10 "flashlight" apps on it17:01
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: i thought that was the warranty brochure ;p17:02
Macerthat just make your phone show a white, bright screen17:02
Macerbecause that is something someone thought they could improve on17:02
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: you got me there :D17:02
Macer:)17:02
lcukmacer, and? who honestly HASNT needed that at some point17:02
Macerlcuk: well.. i guess that's true... but i just can't see there being 10 of them ;)17:02
lcuktheres 10 of them because there is17:03
Macerprobably all with the same code17:03
lcukits no big deal17:03
sp3000you get ten times more light!17:03
Macersp3000: haha17:03
lcukno, you cant multitask17:03
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Maceri'd be impressed if one of them found some hardware hack that intensified it to the brightness of the sun17:03
lcukbut on the hacked one you can lol17:03
qwerty12_N810Macer: You probably wouldn't be...17:03
Macerqwerty12_N810: or if it shot laser-like light from the screen17:04
* lcuk makes liqtorch17:04
Macerin the shape of a batman symbol17:04
slonopotamuslcuk, :D17:04
qwerty12_N810hehe17:04
Macerslonopotamus: broken pkg17:05
* slonopotamus rewrites it as opentorch in C under gpl-3 license17:05
slonopotamusMacer, ?17:05
Macer * Determining the location of the kernel source code17:05
Macer * Found kernel source directory:17:05
Macer *     /usr/src/linux-2.6.27-gentoo-r717:05
Maceroh wtf17:05
slonopotamusoooh17:05
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slonopotamuscx3110x?17:06
slonopotamuswait17:06
Maceryah :)17:06
slonopotamuslinux-2.6.27-gentoo-r7 ???17:06
Maceryeah. i have no idea where it got that from17:06
slonopotamuselesect kernel list17:06
slonopotamuserr17:06
slonopotamuss/elesect/eselect/17:06
slonopotamuschoose diablo17:07
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slonopotamusand... you need modpost file. the only way i know - build kernel17:08
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slonopotamusMacer, after selecting diablo, `cd /usr/src/linux && make nokia_2420_defconfig && make && make modules_install`17:09
slonopotamusbeware, making kernel is 1.5h17:09
Macerdo i have to do that? :)17:09
slonopotamusthere is possibly a simpler way but i don't know it17:09
slonopotamusoh17:09
qwerty12_N810...welcome to Gentoo17:09
Macerlol17:10
slonopotamustry make modules17:10
slonopotamusinstead of 'make'17:10
Macerslonopotamus: i think it was just a broken symlink from when i stopped vanilla-sources17:10
slonopotamusso, try `cd /usr/src/linux && make nokia_2420_defconfig && make modules && make modules_install`17:11
Macer *   ERROR: Kernel configuration is invalid.17:12
Maceryeah. going to have to17:12
Macerwhy the && ?17:12
Maceris that the new ; or something?17:12
slonopotamus...17:12
slonopotamus&& is AND17:12
Macerisn't ; also?17:13
slonopotamusit runs next command only if previous completed successfully17:13
slonopotamusso it stops on error.17:13
Maceroh. so if it shoots out an error17:13
slonopotamus; doesn't17:13
Macerah ok17:13
Macerdidn't know that :)17:13
* slonopotamus tries17:14
Macerso what do you do if you want some features your kernel doesn't have.. just build modules?17:15
Maceri mean it's not really like a PC where you kind of boot from a kernel .. well it is but isn't17:15
Stskeepsyes, building modules17:15
MacerStskeeps: so mer came about and ended the deblet movement because of battery life ? :)17:17
StskeepsMacer: mer is deblet's successor and many parts of deblet is in mer17:17
Macerso how did you get past the battery life issue?17:18
Stskeepssimple - apis and desktop that cares about being idle17:18
Macerwhat was preventing it from going idle?17:19
slonopotamushehe17:19
Macerwas it just built that way?17:19
Macerbuilt to consume? :)17:20
Stskeepsyeah17:20
Stskeepsheck, a simple cpu meter..17:20
Stskeeps:P17:20
slonopotamusUSE='-powersave' :P17:20
Macerlol17:20
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slonopotamusthey couldn't rebuild the world with new flags so forked new distro :)17:21
* Macer hides17:21
Stskeepspfft :P17:21
Macerlol!!17:21
slonopotamusMacer, nothing stops from booting another kernel on n8x0 actually17:22
lcukok17:23
lcukliqtorch is in extras builder17:23
Macerslonopotamus: my 3 yr old son thinks i'm nuts because you just made me bust out laughing with tha tone17:23
Macerlcuk: a 3d based flashlight app for maemo?17:23
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Macer:)17:23
lcukbut if you cant wait, http://liqbase.net/up3/liqtorch_0.1.0_armel.deb17:23
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* Macer sets his powersave flag17:24
Macernever understood that in gentoo... + = remove17:25
lcukwe dont need iphone to do stuff17:25
lcuki know the apps are simple17:25
lcukand they are easy to do17:25
lcukso we just need to do them :)17:26
Maceriphone?17:26
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lcukthe discussion was about getting iphone devs involved17:26
zerojayPCFuck 'em.17:27
javispedrothen they'll come ;)17:27
Macergo community!17:27
zerojayPCThe app store is flooded with $5 RSS readers for one particular subject.17:27
javispedroRSS readers? no, they're all url shortcuts.17:27
zerojayPCIt now takes over a month to get approved.17:27
zerojayPCAnd you sometimes don't even get told why you were rejected.17:28
Macerthis is what the open source community is really about!17:28
Macerdivide and conquer17:28
Macer:) the master plan17:28
zerojayPCIt's about not allowing PR to blind us, apparently.17:28
javispedroone of the iphone "there's an app for that" ads here was about some random application that basically just replicated parts of the wikipedia.17:28
javispedrobenefits:17:28
javispedrodid it work offline? no.17:28
lcukzerojayPC, i just said exactly the same thing on that thread lol17:29
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=312161&postcount=6517:29
Macerjust feeding the troll huh?17:30
zerojayPCI'm frustrated with working on iPhone apps, honestly.17:30
Maceri feel like watching the movie hackers17:30
lcuki've got a few of my own that i can work from: http://liqbase.net/liq.20090710_002210.lib.holymoly.png17:30
javispedrolcuk: is liqtorch what its name suggests? :D17:31
lcukyes17:31
Macerslonopotamus: crap. the modules alone are taking 1.5hrs :)17:31
Macerhaha17:31
lcuktry it17:31
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Macerliq fire?17:31
zerojayPCAll we need to get iPhone app developers over to Maemo... allow every app to be used as a flashlight. :/17:31
slonopotamusMacer, no. that's whole kernel + modules17:31
lcuk[2009-08-16 17:27:34] liqtorch 0.1.0 has been queued for loading into chinook extras-devel repository17:31
lcuk[2009-08-16 17:27:34] You can find more info about this build here: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/chinook/liqtorch_0.1.0/17:31
lcukthe others will follow17:32
Macerslonopotamus: i was joking.. ;) the modules are still building17:32
javispedromaybe instead of scratchbox a plain crosscompile will be more useful. more portable, at least.17:32
javispedrofor simpler "sdk" apps would be enough.17:32
javispedroports would need the usual sb1.17:32
javispedro*crosscompiler.17:32
lcukzerojayPC, just ignore them and get on with life17:32
Macerare iphones java?17:33
lcukok, that was one 30 minute project17:33
zerojayPCNo.17:33
lcuknext.17:33
VDVsxMacer, objective-C17:33
slonopotamusMacer, done here. < 15 mins17:33
Maceryeah. it just finished17:33
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Macertrying sys-apps/n8x0-env again17:34
slonopotamusneed to add that to wiki...17:34
Stskeepsregarding one app per rss feed.. isn't it catering to what providers has tried to put down people's throats through vendor shortcuts? or menu items17:34
qwerty12_N810Thinking of SE phones? ;)17:35
MacerStskeeps: ever ask nokia about tmobile supported phones that don't suck?17:35
Macerthey will tell you "that's a good reason to switch to at&t"17:35
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StskeepsMacer: because that isn't constructive?17:36
Macer>>> Unpacking deblet-cx3110x.patch to /var/tmp/portage/net-wireless/cx3110x-2.0.15-r8/work17:36
Macerhahaha17:36
MacerStskeeps: HE'S PLAGERIZING!17:36
MacerStskeeps: no.. marketing for att is not constructive ;)17:37
qwerty12_N810Looking at the file name, he's doing a very good job ;)17:37
Stskeepsno, he's using and contributes, stop trolling17:37
Macerhehe.. i was joking17:37
lcukspeaking of lights, this is amusing: http://www.lolpix.com/pictures/7/Funny_Pictures_612.htm17:38
Macerslonopotamus: seems to work17:39
Macerwell. seems to build at least17:39
Macer * /lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/build/System.map not found.17:39
Macer * You must manually update the kernel module dependencies using depmod.                     [ !! ]17:40
slonopotamusdid you do modules_install?17:40
Maceryeah17:40
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slonopotamushey, that's a warning17:40
Macerjust in case you wanted to add "run depmod" to the wiki ;)17:41
slonopotamusdamnit, broke phone charger cable with washing vacuum cleaner...17:42
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lcukmaemo autobuilder doesnt actually need a package does it17:42
lcukit wants changes and dsc and tar.gz17:42
MacerWARNING: Can't read module /lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/umac.ko: No such f17:42
slonopotamusthat's ok17:42
Macerok. just checking.17:42
Macerwhat pkg did you say i needed for right click emulation?17:43
Maceroh wait17:43
Macernm you said it was in the X docs right?17:43
slonopotamusMacer, xf86-input-tslib. look at X doc page17:43
Maceri'll work on that after i get a working wifi17:43
Macerbecause that sounds like something that would depend on an xorg build17:43
slonopotamusyep, it will17:44
Macerwhcih will mean sticking my n810 on a charger17:44
Macerand checking up on it in a week or so17:44
slonopotamushehe. no, x isn't so long17:44
javispedrolol17:45
javispedrothis osso-games-startup has lots of tricks17:45
javispedrodo gtk apps set WMClass from argv0?17:46
lcuki suppose it could, its just a string afterall17:46
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javispedroi don't know if its a "misfeature" of the builtin apps or it's something diablo's gtk does by default.17:47
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inzyes, gtk sets wmclass from argv017:48
javispedrothanks inz17:48
javispedrocombined with busybox's exec lack of "-a" argument, this means every game has to symlink osso_games_launcher :P17:49
inzi think theres some foo sets bar from argv0 and then gdk sets wmclass from bar, but the end result is the same17:49
inzand theres some way to override that wmclass somehow, but dont really remember how17:51
javispedroif it's gtk standard behaviour i'll google17:51
inzive had my fights with wmclass, but ive since happily forgotten17:52
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wazdheya everyone :)17:53
Macerseriously should have installed screen on this gentoo install first :)17:53
lcukhiya wazd \o17:53
VDVsxhello wazd :)17:54
javispedroi'll think i'll just replicate indt games behaviour and do the symlinks :P17:54
javispedrohi :)17:54
slonopotamusMacer, just open new terminal window?17:54
Macerslonopotamus: oh not for that. for long builds17:55
lcukwazd, ive got a design question for you - could you see what needs doing to this to make it work:17:55
Macerso i don't have to worry about me accidently closing the ssh17:55
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090816_155149.torch.scr.png17:55
slonopotamusMacer, gcc is 10-11 hours :)17:55
lcukomg, that actually has a bug :O17:55
lcukthat was meant as a joke lol17:56
wazdlcuk: mm, I see only gray square :)17:56
lcukits not white!17:56
Macerhahahaha17:56
lcukpmsl!17:56
* lcuk laughs 17:56
slonopotamuslcuk, roll out v 2 with brighter light :)17:56
lcukyeah17:56
lcuki need to17:56
Macerslonopotamus: yah. i'm sure altogether when i can finally boot and use the wifi....17:56
lcuki think thats the RGB->YUV algo (from microsoft lol)17:56
Maceri'll be building for a week straight on it.. hope it can handle that17:57
wazdwho needs torch app on the device with dual LED flash? :D17:57
Maceri'm building the wpa stuff now17:57
javispedrotrue lcuk, make it turn on the leds at max power ;)17:57
slonopotamusMacer, if you pplan to build a lot, think about setting up qemu chroot on faster box17:57
javispedrosee? even the torch application has feature requests :D17:57
Macerslonopotamus: no! i will not concede to qemu!17:58
Macernative ftw17:58
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kfxno, instead you should have the white .png fade to black.  then the user should have to use the touchscreen to "replace" the onscreen "batteries"17:58
slonopotamuslcuk, what about flashing modes?17:58
Macerhahahhaha17:58
Macerkfx: and then rename the app to iphone emulator17:59
Macer:)17:59
lcukkfx, actually i rub and shake the torch when its running out17:59
lcukgood job we will have an accelerometer17:59
javispedrowe could use the torch application as template to gain iphone developers :)17:59
MacerLOL17:59
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Maceromg this is too funny17:59
slonopotamuslcuk, or better draw a lighting candle18:00
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090816_155627.torch.scr.png18:00
lcukthats better18:00
kfxlcuk: use the ambient light sense to ensure the thing never dies out if there's already light18:00
lcukthanks for help debugging guys18:00
kfxit's only in the pitch black it should crap out18:00
slonopotamuslcuk, woo! this version even works on n800!18:01
slonopotamusanyone tried on 770? this is awesome :D18:01
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/up3/liqtorch_0.1.1_armel.deb :)18:02
lcukslonopotamus, all of liqbase works on 800 and 81018:02
lcuki never got it working on 77018:02
lcukbut that already has a torch program18:02
lcukcalled WSOD i think18:02
javispedroLOL :D18:02
lcukz4chh and I have put in place a basic textbox with vkb18:03
javispedroit's also a pretty good one since you cant turn it off by accident.18:03
lcukonly a tiny back button in the bottom corner18:03
lcukor of course the escape hard key18:03
javispedroor a sledgehammer.18:03
lcukthat works too18:04
lcukok, 0.1.1 is goin through autobuilder18:04
lcukobviously source is available with that18:04
javispedrochangelog: more life-like light color? :D18:04
lcukliqtorch (0.1.1) unstable; urgency=low18:05
lcuk  * increased brightness18:05
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lcukjavispedro, make it do whatever you want18:07
lcukim done with this for now, it was just a laugh to show its possible :)18:07
* lcuk gets back on with real work18:08
qwerty12_N810To an iPhone developer, that is real work ;)18:09
lcukagreed there qwerty18:10
lcuki wonder how many floating backgrounds we will see in future18:10
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zerojayPCDoes the name "Jussi Makinen" mean anything to anyone here?18:15
lcukyeah18:15
lcukmaemo guy18:15
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Macer# The below line not be changed otherwise we refuse to work18:47
Macerheh18:47
Macerenglish fail18:47
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slonopotamuswhere's that?18:48
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Macerthe gentoo handbook18:49
Macerfor wifi18:49
slonopotamusheh18:50
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Macer  psk=06b4be19da289f475aa46a33cb793029d4ab3db7a23ee92382eb0106c72ac7bb18:53
Maceroops18:53
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Macerwpa_supplicant_eth0="-Dmadwifi"18:53
javispedroyes, oops.18:53
Macerjavispedro: it's from the handbook.. not mine ;)18:53
Macerplus. i don't think any of you guys are going to go ap to ap trying to track mine down18:53
Macerslonopotamus: that line.. shouldn't it be wlan0?18:53
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Macerdamnit19:00
Macerforgot to install dhcpcd19:00
Macerand didn't set up a manual ip19:00
* Macer is reliving all his old gentoo mistakes19:00
Macerwhich wouldn't be that big of a deal if i could use the fn key :)19:01
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javispedroI guess you need patched kernel for that.19:03
Macerjavispedro: heh. well. Luke-Jr has a mapping that he did for it that hopefully he adds to their repo which would be awesome19:03
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Maceri just need to get this damn thing to the point where it will automatically connect to my wifi19:04
GeneralAntillesqgil needs to change his sig.19:06
Macergentoo uses dhcpcd by default huh?19:06
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Macergr19:17
Macershit19:17
Macernow wlan0 doesn't exist19:17
Macerthis shit is driving me nuts :)19:18
GeneralAntillesI wish Dell were selling some Ubuntu desktops.19:18
javispedrothey no longer are? that was fast.19:19
GeneralAntillesSeveral laptops19:19
GeneralAntillesBut no desktops as far as I can tell.19:19
javispedroah19:19
GeneralAntillesI wish they'd at least sell me something Vista-free.19:19
Macerslonopotamus: i'm lost. i don't know what i'm doing wrong19:20
Macerlooks like wlan doesn't show up19:20
javispedroMacer, tried "ifconfig -a" ;)19:20
Maceryeah19:20
javispedroqwerty12_N810, have you ever toyed with libhgw (hildon-games-wrapper)?19:22
javispedrocause it seems to link with libosso and offers "nice" way to get device-inactivity, etc. messages.19:22
qwerty12_N810javispedro: no, sorry, I have not :)19:23
javispedroseems designed with sdl games in mind19:23
javispedro(telling you because I remember you once told me linking with libosso was not worth the effort)19:23
qwerty12_N810I don't remember that :)19:24
* VDVsx predicts extra fun with the new H-A-M ;)19:24
javispedroah,  when I was talking about extra ways to save power for openttd, and was thinking about polling for device inactivity/screen blanking events19:25
javispedrobut nevermind.19:26
qwerty12_N810I may have pointed you to a convo on -developers where the topic was discussed but I wouldn't say that you shouldn't link with libosso outright.19:26
qwerty12_N810:)19:26
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Macerdoes n810 use atheros?19:27
javispedroah, thanks :)19:27
javispedrohttp://wiki.maemo.org/Applications_you_wish_were_ported_from_other_platforms19:28
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javispedroI doubt Shazam's going to like some random dev using their web service...19:30
javispedroeven though I would vote for it (never tried it)19:30
pupniki wish i had a robot to bring me stuff19:31
pupnikit's 2009.  we should have this.19:31
qwerty12_N810Sony Ericsson have something similar with Track ID. Maybe a partnership? :D (I would've laughed at this at one point, but Microsoft and Intel...)19:31
javispedroi just though what if I made a "borderline legal" app using reverse engineered shazam web api, would it go to extras-testing then maemo.nokia.com ;)19:32
* GeneralAntilles wonders about moving to Ubuntu.19:33
qwerty12_N810javispedro: I'd recommend that you charge for the app and then use the money to get a new identity if that situation occured ;)19:33
javispedro:D19:34
Macercannot add provide 'net', as a service with teh same name exists19:34
Macerwtf19:34
Macernetwork interface wlan0 does not exist19:35
Macersigh19:35
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Macerslonopotamus: you there19:37
Macer?19:37
StskeepsMacer: welcome to why it took a year to get to a 'shitty ui' :P19:40
Macerhaha19:41
Macerbecause of no wlan? :)19:41
Macerand no fn key?19:41
Stskeepskeep in mind the same tricks gentoo uses is what we took a long time to figure out how to do19:43
Stskeepsso they were able to start their development quicker19:43
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MacerStskeeps: i had to put the wifi driver in the modules autoload file19:46
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Maceralthogh -Dmadwifi didn't seem to work19:46
Macerlike...19:46
Stskeepscheck out your ifconfig -a and notice the wifi address19:46
Macerdoes the n810 use an ahteros chipset?19:46
Stskeeps:P19:46
Stskeepsno, it's a prism like thing19:46
Macerhm19:47
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Macerso -Dmadwifi for wpa supplicant19:47
Maceris unnecessary?19:47
Stskeepsno, wext19:47
Maceroh.. ok19:47
Maceri got the module to load19:47
Macerjust had the driver messed up for wifi supplicant19:47
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qwerty12_N810STLC455019:47
Macerok19:49
Macer50th time's the charm19:49
Macerhow do i stop that damn nokia white screen thing from popping up?19:50
Macerdamn that thing is annoying19:50
Stskeepsnot possible19:50
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Macernot the first one19:50
Macerthe one afterwards19:50
Stskeepsqwerty12_N810: http://justamp.blogspot.com/2009/08/nokia-e81-ripoff.html , at least Nokla gets the spacebar right ;p19:51
javispedroProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault in hgw_msg_check_incoming () from /usr/lib/libhgw.so.1 -- great.19:51
Macerboom!19:51
Macerthanks a ton Stskeeps  :) got it19:51
Stskeepscheck your ifconfig..19:51
Stskeeps:P19:51
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Macerwhy? what's wrong with it?19:52
Macerit seems pretty normal19:52
qwerty12_N810Stskeeps: that spacebar appears to be bigger from a quick glance...19:52
Macerawesome19:52
Macernow i can ssh to it :)19:52
Macerthat's all i needed19:52
* Macer gets ready to hurt his n81019:52
Macerbetter keep it plugged in for this oen19:53
Stskeepscheck mac addy19:53
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Macerthe HWaddr?19:54
Maceri'm not getting it Stskeeps  :)19:55
Macernot the mac address.. but what you're trying to get me to see19:55
qwerty12_N810I think slonopotamus, after working on his own wlan-cal, has sense enough to run it in Gentoo ;)19:55
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Macerok :-D20:01
Macertime to get to work20:01
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Maceri don't even know which arm flags i can set for like.  building mplayer20:02
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Macerthis is going to suck up all my concentration for a while :)20:03
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Macerlet me take a look at some matchbox pics to see what it looks like20:03
* javispedro wonders wheter to file a documentation about hildon-games-wrapper20:03
javispedrodocumentation bug.20:04
javispedrohttp://maemo.org/development/documentation/manuals/4-0-x/using_games_start-up_screen/#NonGTK20:04
javispedrodoes not say that HwgMessage has to be allocated by the caller20:04
javispedroand seems to even suggest otherwise.20:04
javispedrobut the thing is a completely disaster in fremantle docs20:05
javispedrohttp://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Multimedia_Components/Using_Games_Start-up_Screen#Integrating_non-GTK.2B_Games20:05
javispedrocompare.20:06
javispedroits wiki!20:06
javispedrodoes that mean I can edit it?20:06
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GeneralAntillesSo, who here thinks I should migrate to Ubuntu? ;)20:06
zerojayPCFrom?20:06
GeneralAntillesPPC OS X20:07
zerojayPCYeah, for sure.20:07
GeneralAntillesI can't afford a Mac Pro for a while and I need something that's got more juice than my old, leaky G5.20:07
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Robot101zerojayPC: pong20:07
GeneralAntilleszerojayPC, I'm picturing Synergy on 2x2 LCDs as part of the changeover. ;)20:08
kfxif you figure out how to get anything but ydl running on a g5 with that bizarre apple video connector let me know20:09
kfxI can boot debian on it but do nothing graphical20:09
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zerojayPCRobot101: I got Facebook chat working through RTCOMM on diablo.20:10
Macerhttp://resources.mini-box.com/online/iMedia%20Linux/images/kiosk.png20:10
Macerwow20:10
Maceryeah matchbox does look like it would work well :)20:10
Robot101zerojayPC: cool20:10
Macerwonder if it's in the portage tree20:10
zerojayPCRobot101: But it breaks the address book.... no more status shown.20:10
Robot101zerojayPC: for anything? or just for facebook?20:10
zerojayPCRobot101: It breaks for all of RTCOMM's protocols.20:11
zerojayPCBut it works and is usable anyways.20:11
Robot101probably a malformed .profile file somehow20:11
zerojayPCIs there anyone I can talk to at Collabora or that worked on RTCOMM that can maybe help or push me in the right direction to get it all working correctly?20:11
zerojayPCAnd then we can work on Twitter. ;)20:12
Robot101jonny.lamb@collabora.co.uk has been working on the maemo packaging recently for the non-official stuff20:12
MacerStskeeps: what are you using for mer?20:12
Maceris that matchbox also?20:12
zerojayPCRobot101: Okay, cool. Thanks.20:13
GAN800kfx, not the point.20:13
Robot101zerojayPC: will.thompson is the maintainer of haze and currently working on rtcom, but joined after diablo was released so the stuff in fremantle is all different20:13
kfxGAN800: are you talking about a hardware change as well then20:13
GAN800Right20:13
zerojayPCRobot101: Well, if it means that we can get Facebook chat into Fremantle's version of rtcom, all the better.20:14
* slonopotamus is back20:14
zerojayPCI'll send them an email, explain what I did and we'll see what comes out of it.20:15
Robot101zerojayPC: sure, throw me in cc, robert.mcqueen, and I'll poke them about it this week :D20:16
zerojayPCYou got it.20:17
zerojayPCI appreciate the help.20:17
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slonopotamusMacer, what's your prob?20:17
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Macerslonopotamus: nothing now20:24
Macerjust was wondering why it wasn't picking up the wifi20:24
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Macerheh20:24
Macerwell. never mind :)20:24
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Macerslonopotamus: ?20:28
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Maceryour net connection ok? :)20:28
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Macer[blocks B     ] <sys-fs/e2fsprogs-1.41.8 ("<sys-fs/e2fsprogs-1.41.8" is blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.16)20:34
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Macerhm20:37
MacerConnecting to repository.mer.tspre.org|84.238.11.16|:80... failed: Connection timed out.20:37
slonopotamusnot 100% ok20:38
Stskeepsah yeah, it's permanently down20:39
Macer:(20:39
Macerslonopotamus: that is where it is trying to emerge files from20:39
Luke-JrMacer: N810 doesn't use madwifi20:39
slonopotamusMacer, what package? luke mirrored mer files20:39
MacerLuke-Jr: yeah. i noticed ;) i was going to change that anyways. just kind of went off the example20:41
Maceri didn't know there was a tablet-wireless package20:41
Maceri just did what your wireless instructions said20:41
Luke-JrStskeeps: you forgot 5) download the firmware for stlc456020:42
Macerright now i have to re-emerge with +X .. so it is going to be doing stuff for a long time20:42
Macerbut either way20:43
Maceremerging with +X required me removing e2fsck20:43
Macer[blocks B     ] <sys-fs/e2fsprogs-1.41.8 ("<sys-fs/e2fsprogs-1.41.8" is blocking sys-apps/util-linux-2.16)20:44
Luke-JrMacer: you should probably run /usr/local/portage/layman/n8x0/scripts/n8x0-password.pl20:44
slonopotamusMacer, pastebin full output20:45
Luke-JrMacer: I suggest using Portage 2.2_rc3320:45
Macerslonopotamus: sorry but i've already passed it up :-\20:45
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slonopotamusMacer, oh! update portage20:46
Macerlol. i'm guessing i should re-install the e2fs stuff?20:46
slonopotamusMacer, that image is kinda old already20:46
Luke-JrMacer: /usr/local/portage/layman/n8x0/scripts/n8x0-password.pl20:46
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* slonopotamus should probably publish updated fs tarball20:47
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Macerok. done20:48
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slonopotamusgcc-4.3, glibc-2.8/2.9, etc...20:48
Maceri added it to mirrors.. going to emerge -u portage20:48
Macerhm20:49
Maceri'm wondering... can i set up distcc using qemu?20:49
* Luke-Jr wonders if we can easily generate a new stage3 from his binpkgs20:49
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: btw, you know your stage3 is copyright infringing?20:49
slonopotamuswho is JO... err... the one we're not allowed to say?20:49
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, no, why?20:49
Luke-JrMacer: it's possible, but probably over your head ;)20:49
Macerlol20:49
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: there's no source with it20:50
Luke-Jrnor an offer valid for 2 yrs20:50
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, ... don't download it then20:50
Luke-Jr20:50
kfxhe only has to produce the source on request, and one line to include the offer will suffice20:50
Macer Portage 2.2_rc3320:51
Maceremerge -u doesn't seem to show that ebuild20:51
Luke-Jrkfx: for the next 2 years20:51
slonopotamusMacer, masked?20:51
Maceri'm going to sync now just to make sure i didn't miss something20:51
Luke-JrMacer: unmask it20:51
slonopotamusMacer, emerge -vp =portage-2..2*20:51
kfxright.  "you can request source for this anytime between now and 16 aug 2011."20:51
kfxthe end20:51
Luke-Jrnot *20:51
Luke-Jr=portage-2.2_rc3320:52
slonopotamusnot ..20:52
Luke-Jrkfx: that date would need to continually up20:52
Maceri'm syncing now20:52
Luke-Jrand slonopotamus would need to keep a copy of the src for it until then20:52
Luke-Jrwaste of space IMO20:52
kfxnot if he never rebuilds the stage320:52
Luke-Jrkfx: yes20:52
Luke-Jrit's 2 years from when he distributes it, eg, when it's downloaded20:52
kfxI know lawyers who would claim that when he makes it available, it's considered "distributed"20:53
kfxbut it's a moot point20:53
* slonopotamus isn't sure all that license stuff works in this country20:53
kfxbecause the only person who is going to make a stink about it is rms20:53
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: copyright law is valid in pretty much every country20:53
Luke-Jrkfx: playing by the rules is a good idea even if nobody will complain20:54
Luke-Jrand in practice, I think people have complained about similar things20:54
kfxLuke-Jr: and that's why I tend to work with the bsd license :V20:54
slonopotamusi wrote docs that allow creating same thing.20:54
Maceri should just have to add thsi to package.unmask and emerge =portage-ver20:56
Macer?20:56
Luke-JrMacer: and package.keywords20:56
Macer--- Invalid atom in /etc/portage/package.unmask: sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc3720:58
Maceroh . you said 3320:58
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Macerdamn =21:02
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zerojayPCRobot101: E-mail sent.21:07
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slonopotamusMacer, just add 'sys-apps/portage' :P21:19
slonopotamusagain... 'usb device is not supported'21:20
Luke-Jrslonopotamus: post-rc33 are broken21:20
slonopotamusLuke-Jr, ... i'm using svn trunk21:21
wazdheh, Foreca is on the Summit schedule21:21
qwerty12_N810wazd: will Vlad and Foreca fight? :D21:22
wazdlooks like Nokia misunderstood our request to help us with collaborating with Foreca :D21:22
wazdqwerty12_N810: yep :D21:22
qwerty12_N810hehe21:22
wazdI wonder if Accuweather is interested in maemo :)21:23
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slonopotamusw/e21:36
Luke-Jrw/e u21:45
slonopotamusno u21:46
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johnsqHi21:55
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slonopotamushello21:59
slonopotamusjohnsq, macer installs gentoo on his n810 :)21:59
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johnsqslonopotamus: this no big problem, new firefox isn't woking22:01
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slonopotamusjohnsq, why not?22:03
johnsqslonopotamus: coredump, when starting, no time to look why22:03
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timeless_mbpwazd: you could just make a better Foreca plugin22:09
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slonopotamusjohnsq, i doubt firefox will stop being a hog ever...22:12
johnsqslonopotamus: he should build 3.0 this worked good22:12
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wazdtimeless_mbp: they don't allow us to use their weather source22:28
wazdtimeless_mbp: the only problem of OMW is that it's not 100% legal22:29
wazdtimeless_mbp: We spent 4 months or so trying to contact Foreca guys22:30
lcuko_O22:30
slonopotamushmm...22:30
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wazdanyway, there are plenty of free weather data providers22:30
slonopotamusweather.com? or who provides data for ff plugin?22:31
qwerty12_N810England weather is easy: Rain, Rain, Rain, Rain, Rain, Rain, Rain22:31
johnsq*lol*22:31
lcuk:D22:31
slonopotamusqwerty12_N810, starting with sunday, yep22:32
wazdI'll try to make good looking brief for Accuweather guys, hope they will be interested22:32
slonopotamusright, accuweather22:32
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wazdslonopotamus: they have pretty sexy client for 5800: http://www.bilgiuzmanlari.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/accuweather-nokia-5800-02.jpg22:34
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wazdlooks like weather.com fixed the hole again22:35
wazdpanic mode on22:36
lcukfixed the hole?22:36
wazdOMW can't update the weather again22:36
lcukoh, they changed the xml format they send out?22:36
lcukor were you directly webscraping?22:36
wazdlcuk: Hope they have changed just XML22:37
qwerty12_N810What's the deal with Weather.com? Do they want money in return for use of their weather data or do they just plain do not allow anyone else the use of their data?22:37
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wazdqwerty12_N810: they just stay silent22:38
qwerty12_N810Oh, odd. :\22:38
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wazdqwerty12_N810: nad their EULA doesn't allow to use weather source for any software22:38
qwerty12_N810Ah, right. Thanks22:40
lcukapart from standardized presentation software22:44
lcukie web browser22:44
slonopotamuswazd, looks cool :)22:45
slonopotamustheir ff plugin even doesn't show 'accuweather' text until you click links/open menu22:46
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wazdslonopotamus: well, see that free space on the bottom? It's the banner's place :)22:56
lcukis the firefox extension their own making too22:57
lcukhow do you get around the accuweather blockade then23:00
lcukim sure we have had this discussion before about different providers23:00
lcukand the fact things like the uk met office supplies data with a license for uk users23:00
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wazdlcuk: we're not gonna get around the blockade23:08
wazdlcuk: we're gonna ask them legally :)23:08
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lcukyeah, but what im saying is there are plenty more fish in the sea23:09
lcuksome providers allow fully legit access to their data for users23:09
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wazdlcuk: I haven't found/contacted well any23:11
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lcukwazd23:16
lcukthe data from the uk met office is released under a crown copyright23:16
lcukhttp://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/legal/#copyright23:16
lcukit says:23:16
lcukThe material featured on this site is subject to Crown copyright protection unless otherwise indicated. The material may be downloaded to file or printer for the purposes of private study and scientific research. Any other proposed use of the material is subject to a copyright licence available from the Met Office.23:16
lcuksolution for omweather - make it omweather data study23:16
lcukand put it in scientific apps department23:17
lcukprivate study is what would be happening on a private handheld device23:17
javispedrooh, you're going to use governmental weather sources now?23:19
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lcukjavispedro, i would prefer the weather to come from humans23:20
lcukbut thats a completely different story23:20
javispedrothat's hard to scrap23:20
javispedrofrom the web I mean23:20
lcukwho needs the web, just let something like omweather select from the available nice shiny glyphs23:21
javispedrobut at least (here in spain) the automated/100% free weather forecast is a bit more accurate than the weather.com one23:21
lcukand put the selections on a server somewhere23:21
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javispedrobtw, lcuk, seen my post about how the iphone cydia guys are packaging from the iphone itself?23:23
lcukyeah - im about half an inch from that23:23
lcukdev on device is comfortable23:24
lcukpackaging is just something ive not cracked23:24
* lcuk develops liqbase from windows23:24
javispedroit should be easier that way23:24
javispedroeven though src pkgs will be incompatible23:24
lcukbut the principle works from mac or linux23:24
lcuk? why incompatible23:24
javispedrothey use bare dpkg-deb, and put manually written control files in source package23:25
javispedroinstead of letting dh_substvars rewrite them23:25
lcukahh - well on the whole, libliqbase is the only dep23:25
pupniknice23:25
javispedrothis is the url I'm talking about http://www.saurik.com/id/723:26
javispedrodpkg-deb is a native binary, seemingly not calling other programs other than tar / ar.23:27
lcukjavispedro, looks ok23:27
lcukand packagebuilder for maemo doesnt even technically need a package23:27
lcukit needs a .tar.gz of the sources23:27
lcuka changes file and another one23:27
lcukmy apps come with a templated debian folder23:27
javispedroyes but there is a lot of processing currently done in gmake/bash scripts if we do it "the full debian way"23:28
pupnikbleh @ docs javispedro23:28
lcukchanges dsc and tar.gx23:28
lcukz23:28
lcukjavispedro, what i mean is - the .deb itself isnt even a requirement23:28
lcukautobuilder makes that23:28
pupnikbtw is there enough time for a sleep in snes? after rendering a frame?23:28
lcukfor all the OSes23:28
javispedropupnik, for some parts of some games there is... for some others it sucks :(23:29
javispedroso I added "turbo mode" (no sleep) back in23:30
javispedro"-t" cmd line paramter23:30
pupnikoh good23:30
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pupnikdoes cpu governor keep it pegged at 400?  or is it dropping during play?23:30
javispedroit drops.23:30
lcukinstead of sleeping then23:30
lcukyou could try being in a busyloop23:31
pupnikahaa23:31
pupniki'd rather never have an app artificially chew up cpu23:31
pupnikthx23:31
pupnik:)23:31
lcukwhy not, you recall i doubled the speed of liqbase by working harder23:31
lcuk(until i shoved in performance mode23:31
javispedroalso, I now use the snes9x framerate adjusting coe23:31
javispedrocode23:31
pupnikright.  i'd rather set performance mode.23:31
pupnikhow did you decide that javispedro ?23:32
javispedroand the fps counter seems pretty lower, even though I like the result23:32
javispedromine did regulars slowdowns and slowups.23:32
javispedroreally bad for the music, you know :P23:33
pupnikyes!23:33
javispedroare you trying it?23:34
johnsqjavispedro: you should seperate music and video23:34
pupnikthe only problem with frameskip 1 are the characters that flash every other frame23:34
pupnikit's in the pipeline23:34
javispedroif you want maxspeed try snesadvande.dat, no apu/music, turbo mode and fixed frameskip23:34
javispedroI will put at least all of those options in the gui23:34
lcukjavispedro, when you are using clidia, can you access the full iphone featureset23:35
javispedrolcuk, I don't know, but I'd guess so.23:35
javispedrocydia it's the often talked about "unofficial store" after all: http://cydia.saurik.com/23:35
lcukahhh23:37
lcukapps are still developed using the iphone sdk23:37
lcukbut its just a method to get the app running on real hardware without apple approval23:37
javispedroI doubt the iphone sdk uses .deb files though23:37
lcukso its not a full sdk23:37
javispedroand I don't know if the cross-compiler comes with the iphone sdk or does not.23:38
javispedroI mean, the cmd line cross compiler.23:38
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javispedrohttps://git.maemo.org/?p=drnoksnes;a=blob_plain;f=gui/icons/banner.png;hb=HEAD -- I suck at graphic design ;)23:40
lcukthats a really cool effort tho23:41
lcukpaging doctor wazd, emergency in ward 1023:42
javispedrohaha :)23:42
lcukwhy are the buttons different sizes?23:42
lcukthey look like they are looking at me crosseyed23:43
javispedroit looks like a butterfly to me ;)23:43
lcukyou are right, you suck at graphic design23:43
lcuklol23:43
javispedro:)23:43
lcuki cant see that :$23:43
* lcuk is 100000 times worse tho23:43
lcuki do fudging hand drawn things23:44
lcukand leave buttons saying "elet"23:44
javispedro(to tell the truth, I wanted to something similar to the snes logo and not the controller, but that "apperead" instead :P )23:44
lcuk(for "delete")23:44
javispedrowell, if anyone wants to commit patches to the project they're welcome :) i for now will concentrate on the rest of missing features (snapshots)23:45
guysoft42hi all, is there a way to compile a v4l driver for maemo? i want to get a dvb dongle working on it23:45
lcukhiya guysoft42 i assume you just get scratchbox working and get the required headers23:46
guysoft42lcuk, i saw someone got it in germany done,23:47
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guysoft42i just got the DVB-T working in linux, and its experimental broadcasts here23:48
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lcukcool23:48
guysoft42lcuk, also, i am not sure how to play it, since it only runs on vlc23:48
lcukgstreamer has support for showing v4l stuff23:48
lcukthe camera uses it23:49
guysoft42lcuk, how would i run it?23:49
javispedromplayer can also play v4l sources23:49
lcuki dunno, but if your driver is known to gstreamer you can create a (pathway/route/tunnel) thingy (forgot the name) and just push it onto a gtk surface23:49
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javispedropipeline :P23:51
guysoft42javispedro, what would be the command? i can get it only on vlc23:51
lcukta javispedro23:51
lcukyou knew what i meant tho :D23:51
javispedronp, most of the time it's going to be me forgetting words :D23:52
javispedroguysoft42, we're talking about dvb-t?23:52
javispedrodo you have a channels.conf file?23:53
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javispedrowell, for the record guysoft42, in order to play dvb-t in mplayer you have to put a channels.conf file in ~/.mplayer/ then $ mplayer dvb://"CHANNEL NAME"23:56
javispedrodunno if the maemo mplayer has support for that, hope so.23:57
lcukdoctor nick has left for the night javispedro23:57
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javispedrodoctor nick riviera just left? aaaw.23:58
guysoft42javispedro, i saw someone did it.. ill have to look23:58
guysoft42hmm, does not work23:58
lcukhows your gaming going GuySoft23:59
javispedroare you trying on your desktop and tablet and, what's the error msg?23:59
lcukare they both you?23:59
guysoft42VIDEO MPEG2(pid=513) AUDIO MPA(pid=4113) NO SUBS (yet)!  PROGRAM N. 0 our bradcasts are on MPEG4.. because we are new and cool.. must be worngf23:59
lcuksorry GuySoft if you arent guysoft4223:59
javispedrolol are _all_ your broadcasts in mpeg4??23:59
guysoft42i am both23:59
GuySofti am both23:59
lcukphew23:59

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