IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-06-23

lcukbut thats not to say it couldnt happen00:00
lcukim just not interested :)00:00
sneakretor ... http://www.groupboard.com/products/00:00
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lcukyeah, tis nothing new00:00
lcuki did whiteboard years ago00:00
Robot101I wrote an IRC whiteboard with mIRC scripting once :P00:01
sneakretlcuk: I'm not detracting from your effort. Just suggesting options for oespirit.00:01
lcukits just in your hand that makes it fun00:01
sneakretExactly.00:01
sneakretliqbase is totally different than those things.00:01
lcukRobot101, i got kicked when i did live irc sketching a few months ago00:01
sneakretHahaha.00:01
sneakretdid it convert to ASCII art for the people not using the client? :)00:01
lcukheh no but it should00:02
Robot101well, you need to discover support before you send sketch events... :D00:02
Robot101otherwise you get comic chat all over again00:02
Robot101Appears as NOVICE.00:02
Robot101[#NONSENSE] HEY GUYS00:02
lcukRobot101, on web server i want a sketch forum00:02
Robot101[#&*X*((WTF] whats up?00:02
lcukwith flash or just png views00:02
lcukif browsed from the tablet it should just grab the raw liqsketch files00:02
sneakretUgh. Comic Chat.00:02
lcukRobot101, that happens now if you go into foreign language channels00:03
lcukyou just learn not to go there :P00:03
sneakretHaha.00:03
Robot101this is something you'll never convince me is a good idea :)00:03
Robot101XMPP and friends have different namespaces for different types of content00:04
lcuksneakret, i just uploaded a very rough test build of the liqbase-playground to extras-devel, it should have hit by now, v 0.3.1200:04
Robot101IRC just shouldn't be used in that way00:04
lcukheh Robot101 that sounds like a "plain text emails only" topic00:04
sneakretlcuk: Cool. I'll check it out this evening. :)00:05
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Robot101no, e-mail has a standard for embedding multiple content types00:05
lcuk:)00:05
oespiritsneakret: thanks for the links :) . lcuk, liqbase does have a speed advantage over existing stuff, if I am not mistaken ?00:06
lcukabout 20-30% :) and tear free00:06
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lcukthats just in transfer overhead, add to that the lighter UI elements and its even more00:07
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lcukhola lopz \o00:08
lopzhola00:08
* lcuk beat you to it00:09
lopzxD00:09
lopzhi lcuk o700:09
lcukouch, you break your arm? :D00:09
lcukRobot101, you know00:10
lcukit might work nicely00:10
* lcuk reconsiders00:10
lcuktheres no central server required if done over im - at least none from me00:10
lcukits all covered by the im provider isnt it00:11
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jeremiahlcuk: Saw all you liqbase-playground packages got built by the autobuilder.00:26
jeremiahs/you/your00:27
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lcukyeah jeremiah and i think weve ironed out the last bits needed t oget it installed cleanly and running as intended :)00:27
lcuki even think it would run nicely on fremantle :)00:28
lcukremind me never ever ever tou touch debian folders again ;)00:29
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sneakretHmm... anyone know if Nokia has any plans to do anything to attract commercial application developers?00:54
sneakret(like an app store)00:54
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* b-man16 doesn't like paied apps00:55
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lcuksneakret, the current devices support paid and suscription apps now, i have no problems using free software to connect and/or require a subscription for data updates.00:59
lcukso even if a free open source app store opened it could still attract commercial development00:59
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roopesneakret: There's the Ovi Store, of course.01:08
lcukhiya roope \o01:08
roopeHiya. Although nothing has been yet announced in terms of Maemo, I think.01:09
lcukooh, next tablet runnin x60 then :D01:09
lcuks01:09
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GAN8001Hopefully the Maemo deployment is less utterly sucktastic01:14
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GAN8001Ovi Store has somehow actually managed to make my Symbian experience worse01:16
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lcukheh01:17
Robot101lcuk: yeah, the telepathy stuff is all peer to peer01:17
GAN800A search for 'flight' brings up one that only works for Signapore and one that only works on a few of the largest airlines.01:17
Robot101anyone who has an IM account, which is anyone who has a gmail account, which is everyone, can use it...01:17
lcukRobot101, then thats a feather in its cap :)01:17
Robot101and if not you can get accounts on jabber.org or any other server at the click of a button01:17
Robot101also it works over LANs in the same way01:18
GAN800Both of which seem to be in ugly, horrifying Java and are as slow as they could possibly be.01:18
lcukare there (really) simple getting started guides for the lib, ive got loads of other things on and cant really get bogged down in something else01:18
Robot101you can swap out the XMPP backend with the link-local one and find the people nearby01:18
Robot101we started on a telepathy-book but its incomplete atm :/01:18
lcukie - at the mo theres loads of simple straight forward socket ones01:18
lcukno need for a book01:18
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lcuksmall tiny working example with descriptions of whats goin on would suffice01:19
Robot101http://people.collabora.co.uk/~davyd/telepathy-book/ has some examples01:19
* Robot101 gotta run, bbl01:19
lcukok ta \o01:19
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lcukRobot101, take a look at liqbase-playground on your machine (its in extras-devel) it might just work with it (replace my static thumbnails of users with real ppl :))01:28
timelyN81General, heh01:29
timelyN81General, well, i believe we don't support java, so that might help :-)01:30
GAN800Let's hope.01:32
GAN800Still, one can sort of appreciate Apple'd gatekeeping after seeing the shit on Ovi.01:33
lcukwasnt it more a case of decent clean framework available from apple with no history, so they set the standard01:33
lcukonce you have good apps in there they will push out the crap01:34
lcukand keep it out01:34
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timelyN81No01:34
lcukwhat then01:35
timelyN81Depends on how rankings work01:36
timelyN81And searching01:36
lcukbut once good apps take off and become the "buzz" the rest become insignificant01:37
lcukim sure there are are real shite apps on iphone01:37
lcukbut no1 remembers them01:37
timelyN81Well, you're assuming a huge number of applicationi01:38
lcukyeah, apple has that now, as much crap as ovi is getting, it will find its balance and will start to work and stuff01:38
timelyN81Did you ever use nokia's Download! ?01:39
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lcukthat would imply i own (a) a nokia phone, and (b) one that actually does anything more than call01:39
lcuknokias are reliable and phone first :)01:40
timelyN81Just asking :)01:40
lcuki know you have01:40
lcukand ive heard the problems lots have had01:40
lcuktheres always v2 and v3 etc - it will come01:40
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timelyN81I'll use anything once or twice01:41
timelyN81That isn't an endorsement01:41
lcukheh01:42
timelyN81My chief complaint about apple's store is its insistance on sending a Finnish license agreement to my English user agent01:43
timelyN81No point in worrying about nokia, their English is incomprehensible01:44
timelyN81I'm not a lawyer, but i'm used to legalese. And in working groups, i'm one  the people who poke at the fine print01:46
lcukthats a bit troublesome, there must be a better way to do it01:47
lcukhow comfortable is the desktop app to use01:48
timelyN81Licenses?01:48
lcukie nokia itunes01:48
lcukeverything01:48
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lcukits an important component in peoples lives, its nice to be able to do everything on their devices, but its important to have desktop presence too01:49
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timelyN81Well, lasti checked, ovi.com's root page had 11 flash instances01:49
lcuk*cringe*01:50
timelyN81I'm not brave enough to proceed01:50
lcukhah01:50
timelyN81I've heard some devices fail to login01:50
lcukive heard stories of needing to enter phone number, activate via message enter code again and finally download01:51
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lcukwould be nice if we could just use the wifi and connect/authenticate to desktop app and get that ridiculous scenario out of the way01:51
timelyN81Eh?01:52
lcukill try to find link01:52
lcukpeople having troubles linking phones with downloads01:53
lcuktimelyN81, it was people trying to download the store app onto their phones themselves, slight mismemory.01:59
lcukim goin codin anyhoo \o cya later01:59
timelyN81Ovi?02:00
lcukyeah02:00
timelyN81User error ;-)02:00
jeremiahEUSERFAIL02:00
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xnt14~seen b-man1602:27
infobotb-man16 <n=b-man@pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2h 51m 7s ago, saying: 'lol'.02:27
xnt14damn, just missed him xD02:27
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FireFox16hi02:41
FireFox16xnt14, i'm here xD02:41
xnt14oh xDDDDDD02:41
xnt14brb02:41
FireFox16xD02:41
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FireFox16brb02:43
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xnt14im back02:46
FireFox16i'm back02:51
FireFox16xD02:51
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xnt14[laptop]FireFox16, You There?03:10
FireFox16yup03:11
xnt14[laptop]k03:11
xnt14[laptop]invite me03:11
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FireFox16k03:13
FireFox16you're in ;)03:13
FireFox16hay crashanddie03:13
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.engadget.com/2009/06/22/nokia-n97-review-a-tale-of-two-bloggers/#continued " and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's the most important smartphone Nokia has ever made" that'll be funny when the Maemo phone is released.03:13
FireFox16hehe03:14
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FireFox16hi man_in_pda03:35
man_in_pdahi03:35
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xnt14~seen b-man1605:01
infobotb-man16 <n=b-man@pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 25m 7s ago, saying: 'lol'.05:01
xnt14lol05:01
xnt14oh crap,05:01
* xnt14 just noticed ^05:01
xnt14xD05:01
GeneralAntillesToo hot for auto work.05:01
xnt14:P05:02
GeneralAntillesStupid window motor is shot.05:02
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xnt14GA: moterized windows?05:02
GeneralAntillesRear passenger side power window doesn't work05:03
GeneralAntillesSadly it's a mechanical failure.05:03
xnt14:(05:03
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yonkeltronis there a preferred media player? i've got canola but it's slow and i can't multitask while using it05:52
yonkeltronis there something a little lighter?05:53
GeneralAntillesMedia player?05:55
yonkeltronyes. for music and the like05:55
yonkeltronwell, i really only need it for music05:55
GeneralAntillesEr, yes, and my answer is "Media player"05:55
yonkeltronah05:57
yonkeltroni see05:57
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GeneralAntillesOther than that, maybe Media Box, UKMP, Kagu, or mpd05:57
yonkeltronmpd runs on maemo now?05:58
GeneralAntillesHas since forever and a day05:58
yonkeltronnever knew05:59
yonkeltronthat's hilarious05:59
yonkeltronis media box any good?05:59
GeneralAntillesSome like it, some don't05:59
GeneralAntillesArguably a lighter weight Canola in many ways.05:59
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yonkeltronyouamp seems good06:01
yonkeltronlike what i want06:01
yonkeltronplayback, playlists, plays all my music06:01
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yonkeltronwhoa! my hebrew music shows up with proper titles!06:06
FireFox16xD06:06
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Aveis there an addon for gpe-calendar thatd allow use of syncml?06:49
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billcawell_hello!06:58
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sistodoes the screen on the new internet tablet have capacitive touch?07:05
doc|homewhich new tablet?07:07
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pupnik_Maemo_Diablo_Ubuntu_Hardy_Desktop_Virtual_SDK_Image  has a .vmdk file but no .vmx file07:18
pupnik_Maemo_Diablo_Ubuntu_Hardy_Desktop_Virtual_SDK_Image.zip  has a .vmdk file but no .vmx file07:18
pupnik_can't be run in vmplayer07:18
pupnik_http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/documentation.html  "However, if you want to use VMWare, you will need a *.vmx file (this file is already attached on virtual images zip files)."07:22
pupnik_anybody have a working .vmx for the maemo vmware sdk?07:23
t_s_ointel and nokia, hand in hand...07:25
GAN800sisto, liqbase is a Fremantle star. . .07:27
sistoGAN800: nice!07:27
GAN800and, of course, since it's a sketch and notetaking application. . . .07:29
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sparrAre there any desktop equivalents of maemo mapper?  for caching google maps of an area/route09:07
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timeless_mbphey10:19
timeless_mbpshould i try Ovi Store on my n81? :)10:19
* timeless_mbp was reading wp's glowing review10:19
timeless_mbp(nuclear radiation, stay away)10:19
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: any luck on the upgrade to testing btw10:19
timeless_mbpoh, it seemed to work10:20
timeless_mbpthe hildon theme picker stopped crashing :)10:20
Stskeepswoo10:20
timeless_mbpi can't wait for the locale picker to appear :)10:20
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timeless_mbpso...10:37
timeless_mbpwhen do i get a glibc that supports real apps? :)10:37
Stskeepson mer? :P glibc should be fine10:37
Stskeepsglib we're getting 2.20 very soon10:38
Stskeepsit just takes quite a recompile once we have it :P10:38
timeless_mbpwell...10:40
timeless_mbpcan we have it sooner?10:40
timeless_mbpbecause not being able to use apps sucks10:40
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Stskeepswhich apps in question btw?10:40
timeless_mbphow long of a list do you want?10:40
Stskeepsone example really10:41
timeless_mbpconboy10:41
Stskeepshm, ok10:41
Stskeepsbut are you trying to drag in extras stuff directly?10:41
Stskeepshttp://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Maemo://Mer://Devel://MaemoCommon/MerDevel_Ubuntu_9.04/armel/libglib2.0-0_2.20.1-mer1_armel.deb , http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Maemo://Mer://Devel://MaemoCommon/MerDevel_Ubuntu_9.04/all/libglib2.0-data_2.20.1-mer1_all.deb10:42
Stskeepswould upgrade to glib2.20 (untested)10:42
timeless_mbp'directly'?10:42
Stskeepsyeah, adding maemo.org extras and seeing if it works10:42
Stskeeps(is this ARM or x86 btw?)10:43
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Stskeepshttp://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Maemo://Mer://Devel://MaemoCommon/MerDevel_Ubuntu_9.04/i386/libglib2.0-0_2.20.1-mer1_i386.deb for i386 :P10:44
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timeless_mbpx86 :)10:45
timeless_mbpso i need a working web browser?10:45
Stskeepswget10:45
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Stskeepsand dpkg -i it10:46
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timeless_mbpconboy was installed10:47
* timeless_mbp grumbles10:48
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timeless_mbpQuickClip doesn't install on Mer because  /home/user doesn't exist10:49
Stskeepsyeah - maemoism10:49
Stskeepsin other news my touchpad just died. lovely10:49
timeless_mbpouch10:49
timeless_mbpum10:50
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timeless_mbpi can't install fbreader because libfribidi0 (>= 0.10.4-5)10:50
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Stskeepsis it fremantle extras you're trying to install from?10:50
Stskeepsthere's a known bug on that10:50
timeless_mbpwhat should i use?10:51
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X-Fadefribidi is in the sdk, but not on the device.10:51
X-FadeOr something like that.10:51
X-FadeWhich is a bug ;)10:51
timeless_mbpi can't install PackageRate because it needs libapt-pkg-libc6.5-6.4.610:51
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: yeah.. libapt-pkg is insane10:52
Stskeepseither way, our supported scenario isnt adding fremantle extras for one simple reason: it's built towards armv710:52
Stskeepswe will mirror fremantle extras source and build in OBS probably10:52
Stskeeps(and have new uploads through extras assistant upload to OBS too)10:53
timeless_mbpok10:53
* timeless_mbp sighs10:54
timeless_mbpX-Fade: wanna send mail to mytube's packager?10:54
timeless_mbpthe description says 'an youtube'10:54
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timeless_mbpwhich is unfortunate because 'you' is not a vowel sound and is thus incompatible with 'an'10:55
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timeless_mbpGAN800: btw, ham in mer's behavior wrt <escape> from a category *sucks*10:55
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timeless_mbpit should take me back to the list with the category i had open selected10:55
timeless_mbpinstead it takes me back to the top of the list (all)10:55
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: ok, what are you doing about libsdl1.2 ? :)10:56
timeless_mbpand is there a bug about the fact that ham likes to list the same error in problems more than once/10:57
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timeless_mbptrying to install "Crimson Fields" lists libsdl1.2 twice10:57
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timeless_mbpoh brother10:58
timeless_mbpsomeone please remind me to shoot midori10:59
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timeless_mbptotally unusable ui10:59
Stskeepswe plan to include Tear, since it seems to work10:59
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timeless_mbpand has error messages that fit on screen / don't require more window title space than on a full sized laptop?11:00
timeless_mbpcool11:00
* timeless_mbp tries to remember how to make a repository11:01
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* Stskeeps crashes on his sofa and watches a dilbert episode11:04
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lirihow's the MER project going?11:09
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lirigetting an ubuntu distro would solve a lot of issues, for me specifically - the PIM thing with Evolution installed11:09
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Stskeepsliri: decently - still a way to go11:10
liriStskeeps: uhh...11:10
liriStskeeps: my n810 has been gaining dust for months now11:10
Stskeepstry it out and see how you feel about it, it's not a perfect product yet;)11:11
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v6saHello, can anyone tell me where this wizard puts all the pppd configuration?11:20
timeless_mbpliri: what features do you need?11:20
liritimeless_mbp: most important are sync for calendar, contacts and nice to have tasks/todo for google services11:21
timeless_mbpno need for a web browser?11:22
lbtliri:  me too (but egw not google)11:22
timeless_mbpi take it that you want some form of networking?11:22
lirinetworking?11:22
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timeless_mbpability to connect to a network11:22
timeless_mbpbluetooth, usb, wifi11:22
liriobviously. how would I sync without that? :)11:23
timeless_mbpwell, you didn't indicate a need for a web browser :)11:23
liriheh11:23
liribecause a web browser hasn't got to do with pim/syncing11:23
timeless_mbpyou could sync via usb or bluetooth to your phone11:24
timeless_mbpwithout having networking11:24
liriwhat kind of solution are you offering, I'm not following11:24
timeless_mbpi'm not specifically offering11:24
timeless_mbpi'm merely trying to understand which things don't matter to you11:24
timeless_mbpMer today comes w/ a browser no one would want to use11:24
liriwhy?11:24
timeless_mbpsince you don't need one, that isn't a liability :)11:24
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liriwhat browser is it?11:25
timeless_mbpit isn't fingerable11:25
liriahh11:25
timeless_mbpMidori11:25
timeless_mbpthe strings are disastrous11:25
lirican't it just use what is in the n810 os?11:25
* timeless_mbp shrugs11:25
Stskeepswe wish but that's delayed ;)11:25
liriwhats the reason?11:25
lirilegal?11:25
Stskeepsjust not open yet :) we'll know sometime11:25
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liriahh11:27
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timeless_mbphey11:40
timeless_mbpStskeeps: can you try a package for me? :)11:40
Stskeepsmm, leave the url to me in msg and i will, - doing some work right now11:41
timeless_mbpbasically: 1. dpkg -i the deb. 2. try using ham to install the package. 3. check the message. 4. verify that uninstalling the deb itself is safe11:42
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narkotikohi11:58
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wazdhello, maemo, interesting news here12:57
wazdhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/06/22/flash-10-for-smartphone-beta-coming-this-october/12:58
Stskeepsmore interesting: http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/23/intel-making-important-announcement-today-a-nokia-netbook/13:00
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lardmanStskeeps: hmm, not sure we should read too much into it really13:07
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Stskeepsprobably not much but still, there's absolutely nothing interesting about a nokia x86 netbook13:08
lardmanwine?13:08
* Stskeeps has sworn never to buy a x86 laptop again personally13:08
lardmanand no lcuk I'm not talking to you ;)13:08
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lcukim not even here and you are dissing me :P13:09
lcukwhy no wine13:09
lardmanof course, can't stop the dissing13:09
* RST38h cackles13:10
lcukheh13:10
RST38hhehehe13:10
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: do you know anything about the hardcoding to browserui (what's the name anyway?) in maemo diablo apps?13:10
timeless_mbpyou mean beyond dbus?13:11
timeless_mbpe.g. the feed reader is aware of the browser13:11
timeless_mbpsince it can launch the browser13:11
Stskeepswell, people claim that they can't, let's say, switch default browser to tear or fennec and i fail to see how it is13:11
timeless_mbpthat's one reason13:11
Stskeepssince i would just assume it's a dbus api or something13:12
lardmanI read something in New Scientist yesterday (from the start of the month though) about Nokia using wifi triangulation for GPS-indoors13:12
timeless_mbpwell, fennec doesn't offer the browserui dbus service name13:12
RST38hwifi triangulation sucks13:12
timeless_mbpthe same presumably applies for tear13:12
RST38hwifi finerprinting sucks less though13:12
Stskeepsah, so it's matter of implementing browserui dbus service name13:12
lardmanthe article said it had been done before, but that this would be a service not just for specific places13:12
timeless_mbpStskeeps: well13:12
timeless_mbpprobably the dbus service name and possibly /usr/bin/browser13:12
lardmanRST38h: well it may suck, but better than nothing when inside hey13:13
RST38hon the other hand, nokia may have better access to the hardware so it can get more precise values for triangulation13:13
timeless_mbpi don't know how the feed reader launches the browser13:13
timeless_mbpbut since both are "well known" items13:13
Stskeepswell that's more doable13:13
timeless_mbpboth are relatively "fair game"13:13
lardmanRST38h: probably also needs signal strength maps for the buildings, but anything is a step in the right direction13:13
timeless_mbpthere aren't any other ways to legally poke the browser13:13
* lardman wonders if it will be part of the location framework :)13:13
timeless_mbpif you replace both, and have issues, then the thing that's breaking is broken13:13
Stskeepsso that's the primary ways of executing browser (dbus and /usr/bin/browser)13:14
Stskeepsas in "open in browser"13:14
timeless_mbpyes13:14
Stskeepsk13:14
timeless_mbpnote that neither tear nor fennec should replace /usr/bin/browser13:14
timeless_mbpbecause then you couldn't install both fennec and tear safely13:14
Stskeepseven with dpkg-divert? :P13:14
timeless_mbpsomeone should make a browser-alternatives program13:15
Stskeepsis /usr/bin/browser "just" a dbus wrapper/wrapper to browserd, or is it a full browser?13:15
timeless_mbpand all it should do is deal w/ /usr/bin/browser, the dbus service, and letting you pick the thing13:15
timeless_mbpit's the ui13:15
Stskeepsah13:15
timeless_mbpthere are other uis13:15
timeless_mbpe.g. internet tablet tutorial13:15
timeless_mbpin theory, /usr/bin/browser should work fine as /usr/bin/lame-browser13:16
timeless_mbpor /usr/bin/microb-browser13:16
timeless_mbpminus the dbus singleton issues13:16
timeless_mbpi have no idea how to deal w/ that13:16
Stskeeps*nod*13:16
timeless_mbppresumably that's a design flaw in dbus :)13:16
Stskeepsmind if i refer to this in the maemo irc logs so some people can get hacking on it? i think it's one of the more wanted "features" at the moment13:17
Stskeeps(even for me personally)13:17
timeless_mbpit's public :)13:18
Stskeepsk13:18
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RST38hlardman: when done with a standard13:57
RST38hsorry, old buffer13:57
jeremiahqwerty12_N810: I just tried to build anyremote on fremantle, but I got an error:13:58
jeremiahhttp://bit.ly/OlnEF13:58
qwerty12_N810jeremiah: sorry, I don't know nothing about fremantle nor do I have an Fremantle SDK set up13:59
jeremiahah okay.13:59
jeremiahNevermind then. :)13:59
qwerty12_N810But the configure isn't completing, hence the Makefile error :)14:00
qwerty12_N810--disable-xtest ? =)14:00
jeremiahYeah - I may do that.14:00
jeremiahJust wondered if you had encountered the same error before I descend into the rabbit hole.14:01
jeremiah.c14:01
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lcukjeremiah, leave a message for jeremiah foster on talk.maemo.org, he is really good at fixing package problems :P14:06
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lcukapt-get install lunch14:13
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lardmanRST38h: well if it has the infrastructure it may become defacto14:17
jeremiahlcuk: That guy? No way - what a loser.14:18
Stskeepsjeremiah: were you going to debconf btw? i can't recall14:18
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lcuklardman, in absence of gps communication, we could make use of the pitot tube in the rx-51 (it has everything else..), and use the camera to find landmarks14:26
RST38hlardman: you probably will never get specific infrastructure for in-house triangulation :)14:26
RST38hlardman: on the other hand, Nokia probably has better access to wifi chip registers, I only worked with Prism cards which compute signal strength by Tarot cards14:27
Stskeepsi would love UWB positioning in my home14:27
RST38hSts: RFID seems to be a better choice14:27
StskeepsRST38h: that's just proximity detection14:28
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lcukRST38h, if you know the locations of the base stations you can get yourself a pretty damned good location just by finding the roots of each14:28
lcukrfid can be used for  door entry/exit but not for positioning14:28
* lcuk wants rfid activated catflap14:29
Stskeepslcuk: yeah but UWB positioning is 3cm accuracy :>14:29
lcukoooh14:29
lcuknice14:29
lardmanlcuk: got to be careful of pitot-tube icing14:29
lcukyeah but at normal human speeds its not that common14:30
lardmans/speeds/altitudes :)14:30
lcuki used to run around the house with my dads (from his hang glider)14:30
lardmananyway, we'll see what the location framework brings with it, hopefully very exciting stuff14:31
lardmanlol14:31
jeremiahStskeeps: Yeah, I want to go to debconf - I saw that you bought your ticket already14:31
jeremiahStskeeps: When are you going to be there exactly?14:31
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* lardman heads for lunch14:31
lcukit only needs to say "indoors at location x,y,z" feasibly14:31
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lcuki want bluetooth location14:31
lcukdrop dongles everywhere14:32
lcukwe wanted to do it last year14:32
Stskeepsjeremiah: 23th - 31th - me and zenvoid are going14:32
jeremiahah, for a whole week? :)14:32
Stskeepswell we have no idea when our BoF would be14:32
jeremiahLet me look at my calendar since I have vacation the last week of July and we will be away.14:33
jeremiahI most likely will show up on the 22nd and go home the 14th.14:33
jeremiahheh, 24th14:33
Stskeeps*nod*14:34
Stskeepsi warn you about the train booking, it's evil14:34
Stskeeps:P14:34
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jeremiahReally? Why? In spanish?14:35
Stskeepsyeah and at some point it was throwing NullPointerException at us :P14:35
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jeremiahYeah but NullPointerException is a place in Spain.14:40
timeless_mbpnice14:40
Stskeepswouldn't surprise me14:40
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, ping15:43
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lcukwhats the dbus command to turn down the temperature?   or is it a /sys branch?16:05
* lcuk is baking in manchester16:05
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qwerty12_N810dbus-send --dest=/the/north/sucks/16:06
ShadowJKI think you need to do a manual i2c bitbanging on /dev/deity from userspace16:06
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pupnik"no one here gets out of this chroot alive"16:10
lcukthanks qwerty12_N810, denying your roots again :p16:11
lcukShadowJK, i tried that16:11
qwerty12_N810:P16:11
lcukbut it told me  god could not be found16:11
lcukperhaps i need to try as root16:12
qwerty12_N810What about /dev/voodoo?16:12
lcukno16:12
lcuk/dev/noodly_appendage was there thou16:13
lcukshould i try that16:13
ShadowJKI think you need to enable faith first, it's in /sys somewhere I think16:13
lcukerr: not enough faith16:14
lcukhow do i increase faith? :S :D16:14
qwerty12_N810mknod faith 66 616:15
ShadowJKhm, tablet is eating lots of power suddenly16:15
ShadowJKi think bluetooth got stuck16:15
qwerty12_N810stupid gps  is stuck here :(16:15
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pupniktear cut/paste still broken/incomplete16:16
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qwerty12_N810pupnik: temp. solution: get gconf-editor and set /apps/osso/gtk/enable-accels to false16:17
pupnikwow16:17
qwerty12_N810prodded bundyo on that issue and he plans to remove the dodgy accels16:17
ShadowJKaha, disconnecting, disabling bluetooth, enabling bluetooth and reconnecting16:19
ShadowJKthis dropped power consumption to a third16:19
ShadowJKit'd only idled 4 hours on full battery as it was16:20
ShadowJKnow if it stays, it will run xchat with screen on for twice as long16:21
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lcukShadowJK, how did you test that in 6 minutes16:22
lcukyou went from problems with power, then found a solution and know how long extra it would last16:23
lcukcan i borrow your tardis?16:23
X-Fadelol :)16:23
lcukeither that or a clone of myself16:24
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pupnikfixed, qwerty12_N810 --- TY!16:27
ukkisup pupnik?16:27
qwerty12_N810np pupnik16:27
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pupnikjust laying on the floor, chattin on tablet16:28
pupnikwhats with you ukki16:28
ukkisounds way nicer than what i'm doing16:28
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ukkii have to update java applets that were written by someone else like 8 years ago and they have a word que in 2/3 of the variables16:29
ukkiso i've been better16:30
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pupnikheh16:30
lcukukki, 8 years is miniscule in  the life of code :)16:30
RST38hjava applets better be killed off16:30
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RST38hif you can track down the Indian guy who wrote them and do the same to him, even better16:31
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ShadowJKlcuk: ftd :)16:41
ShadowJKyou can set it to log certain battery/power values. I have a script that follows the ftd log16:41
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lcuknice16:42
ShadowJKthe script gives me average power balance over a minute, an integration of that (which I re-calibrate with data from lshal|grep battery periodically)16:43
ShadowJKif power draw is known, divide battery capacity with draw to get endurance ;)16:43
ShadowJKbut anyway... the tablet was getting warm doing fuck all. that's all the tardis one needs16:44
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* lardman feels like he might melt16:52
lcukinto the frying pan?16:54
* lcuk gets the bacon ready16:54
lardmannah, just power walked up the hill and found my office rather warm to heat soak in16:55
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lcukewwww lardman, it was gettin too warm over here too, but then the heavens opened and udmped about 2gazillian inches of rain in under 5 minutes17:00
lcukits nice and cool now17:00
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lardmannice and cool and 100% humidity17:05
RST38hHmmm... the Collider is still winning17:05
lardmanit rained here this morning, so has been pretty humid all day17:05
RST38hGod is losing big17:05
* lardman needs a new mobile17:06
aquatixlardman: Palm Pre? Samsung i7500?17:06
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qwerty12_N810Nokia 3310?17:06
RST38hRAZR?17:07
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qwerty12_N810RST38h: I'd rather take the 3310 :)17:07
aquatixor wait for the n90017:07
RST38hqwerty: True, because 3310 is breakable but there is no way to get rid of a RAZR17:07
lardmanI've got a 6300 which has poor sw17:07
RST38hlardman: realistically, 5800 or it smaller cousin17:08
* lardman looks at phone prices in the uk17:08
lcukyou buyin me one as well :p17:08
lcukyou missed a trick lardman, when you were on the council you couldv added a decree about all former council members should be supplied with top of the range nokia mobiles for life in honous of the services performed17:09
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lardmanno, I think we added that one actually17:10
lardmanwith a convenant that it should not be disclosed to the rest of you17:10
lardmanoh damn!17:10
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lardmanhmm, sim only for £15pm - 600 anytime minutes and unlimited texts17:11
lcukooops :P what was the punishment for disclosure? you have to take over actually buying the mobiles for those who didnt bragg about it :P17:11
lardmanI don't need that much though!17:11
lcukyou will do17:11
lardmanno chance17:11
lcukheh, get the contract and make damned sure you use all up17:12
lardmangive me 200min + 50 texts for £5pm and I'll be happy17:12
lcukyou could do irc over sms17:12
lcukor *shock* twitter17:12
lcuk"im on the bog"17:13
lardmansod that17:13
lcuk"@holly, can you pass me loo roll"17:13
lardman"im using up another of my limitless texts"17:13
lardmanperhaps I could sell them17:13
lcukthere ya go, you are gettin the hang of it17:13
lardmanwander around town offering to text people for 5p/text17:13
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lcuk"you comin down to the pub - sponsored by calsberg"17:13
lcukr17:14
lcuk(cheap knock off)17:14
lardmanI could become an sms spam person17:14
* aquatix would hate you17:14
lcukwhy not, you do enough of it in irc :P17:14
lardmanI've not tried to sell you viagra have I?17:14
lardmanI'll add you to the list17:14
lcukno, you keep them all to yourself, btw have you actually got any left17:15
lcukand has it returned to normal since?17:15
lardmanare they the red ones with little smiley faces on them?17:15
aquatixlardman: i prefer that other brand17:15
lcuki dunno but now we know why holly was smiling in  berlin :p17:16
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lardmanlol17:16
wazdhttp://i059.radikal.ru/0906/60/59d8bc4dfd27.jpg <- for those nerds with 100+ connections)17:16
X-Fadewazd: How would one scroll to the next page?17:17
lardmanscroll bar at the bottom?17:17
X-Fadelardman: Not finger friendly.17:17
lcukuse accelerometer in device and reorient yourself :D17:17
lardmanah17:17
Stskeepswazd: it lacks kinetic scrolling ;p17:17
lardmandon't these dialogs support dragging?17:17
X-FadeNeeds next and and previous buttons or somthing like that?17:17
lcuklike an aliens radar pinger17:17
X-FadeAh true..17:17
X-FadeCould be..17:17
wazdStskeeps: well, you can do kinetic with scrollbar, or make it panable, or whatever)17:18
Stskeepshehe17:18
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lcukits a mockup isnt it - to get to the next screen you email wazd, tell him the wifi zones you expect to see and wait for a response17:19
lcukits instant17:19
lcukit would be expected to be hand pannable tho17:19
lcukX-Fade, didnt ecoach sampppa use a pannable in his app at copenhagen17:20
lcukand it works nicely17:20
X-Fadelcuk: Yeah, I think so.17:20
lcukespecially for a button list like the net manager shows17:20
X-FadeKeep forgetting the panning as we don't have that atm :)17:20
lcukyeah he had it between his stats screen and the graph of results17:21
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lcukwazd, are there really that many open  wifi spots near you?17:22
lcuktheres only 2 other spots near me and both are closed tighter than a nuns habit in the rain17:23
wazdlcuk: well, this is manager, it manages all your saved connections)17:24
* lardman tries to see the relationship between nans, habits and rain17:24
lardmannuns even17:24
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lcuki was gonna use an expletive :)17:27
lcukbut then i remembered where i am17:27
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lardmanand you decided to use two instead...?17:29
lardman:)17:29
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lardmanVDVsx: ping17:35
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VDVsxlardman, pong17:35
lardmanAnyone know if Amazon web service is any use?17:36
lardmanhey VDVsx17:36
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omicron23hi there. I am using the IM client pidgin on OS2008. I can no longer connect to icq because my client version is "too old" . Is there a newer version available than the version from maemo.org?17:36
lardmanI was going to ask whether pyamazon had been considered rather than writing from scratch (not that it's much anyway)17:36
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lardmans/much/much work17:37
lardmanVDVsx: I see Yahoo support was added today17:38
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VDVsxlardman, this is just simple tests atm17:38
VDVsxlardman, but pyamazon is a good suggestion, probably :)17:39
lardmanactually pyaws is more up-to-date17:39
lardmanI was going to take a look at that17:39
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lardmanVDVsx: is zbar in extras-dev?17:44
VDVsxnop17:44
lardmancompile it myself the17:44
lardmanthen]17:44
lardmanaargh17:44
VDVsxlardman, I have to do a package, if someone don't do it earlier  :)17:45
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lardman:)17:45
lardmanqwerty12_N810..... ;)17:45
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johnsqHi17:45
lardmanthat has loads of deps, did you strip some out of it?17:45
VDVsxlardman, according to amit pyamazon don't search by ean codes, that was the reason for write the code in the svn17:46
qwerty12_N810lardman: sorry, Stskeeps has me doing  a tear one17:46
lardmanqwerty12_N810: np17:46
VDVsxlardman, yes QT and imagemagick++17:46
lardmanare they available somewhere?17:46
VDVsxlardman, but with imagemagick++ works better IMO17:46
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lardmanhow hard is it to write a python wrapper for a C function?17:48
lardmanI might just wrap the existing barcode stuff and save all those deps17:48
VDVsxlardman, which ones ? I only had to pull the imagemagick++ package, the rest is available on maemo17:48
VDVsxlardman, easy17:48
lardmancool17:49
lardmanI don;t want Qt or Imagemagik17:49
VDVsxlardman, I can point you to a simple example17:49
lardmanok, I'll have a look this evening when I'm back home17:49
lardmanthanks17:49
VDVsxlardman, np, :)17:49
VDVsxlardman, your code works really well in the device, apart from the GUI part :P17:51
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lardmanyeah the gui is very odd17:51
lardmanI don;t know what's wrong with it at all17:51
lardmanit also sucks cpu, pegs it at 100% when it's running, which isn't idea;17:51
lardmans/idea;/ideal17:51
VDVsxlardman, did you used multiple gstreamer pipelines ?17:52
lardmanthe gui sucks for sure, but the fact that the camera output vanishes is really annoying17:52
lardmanno, just the one I think17:53
lardmanI tried with a single one, with multiple, all sorts17:53
lardmanstill the same17:53
lardmanbbiam, have to grab a lift - give me 10min and we'll continue17:53
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VDVsxwe had the same problem, but now is resolved :P17:53
timeless_mbpwazd: i think scrolling top down instead of left right is better, but user testing wins :)17:54
timeless_mbpwazd: scrolling left/right ends up spending a huge amount of time not making useful progress since you basically see 90%, 80%, 70%, 60%, 50%, .. of the same content17:55
timeless_mbpwhereas scrolling up/down immediately shows you 20% new content17:55
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timeless_mbpwazd: btw, where can i get that theme?17:56
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timeless_mbp(actually i should have written 95%, 90, 85, 80, ...)17:56
lcuktimeless, i dont like side to side scroll because its easier to misclick17:59
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Stskeepsheh, peter@marketing: "I didn't make the Latin alphabet. " ;)18:02
timeless_mbpurl?18:02
Stskeepshttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=298979&postcount=1518:03
Luke-Jr_I don't like the Latin alphabet.18:03
Stskeepsare you a commie?18:03
qwerty12_N810The Latin alphabet doesn't like you either18:03
Luke-Jr_no18:03
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Luke-Jr_more like a monarchist18:04
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wazdlcuk: I don't like side scrolling cause I don't like sides :)18:06
Stskeepsi really should get rid of my xfishtank progress screen..18:06
Luke-Jr_I need to start being more negative about Nokia18:07
Luke-Jr_apparently someone needs to wake them up18:07
wazdtimeless_mbp: well, to my mind side scrolling is pretty good for scrolling huge arranged lists18:07
lcukwhat do you mean sides?18:07
Luke-Jr_Stskeeps: want to review before I post? :P18:08
Luke-Jr_"Ouch. x86 sucks. Hopefully some other company can provide us with the next generation of handhelds (SmartQ with a keyboard⁇)…"18:08
StskeepsLuke-Jr_: as long as you don't claim to be speaking on behalf of Mer or something, sure.. :P18:08
Luke-Jr_ok18:08
lcuknothing wrong with x8618:08
Luke-Jr_lcuk: except everything18:09
Stskeepsx86 laptops are going to be a populace regulator, as it kills potential offspring18:09
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Luke-Jr_I now know MIPS and ARM bytecode. I like those. :þ18:09
lcukyou are sounding like its some new thing, we have had x86 around us most of our lives18:09
Luke-Jr_MIPS assembly is decent too18:09
lcukdo you code in asm?18:09
lcukoften18:09
Luke-Jr_lcuk: I decompile.18:10
lcukis it possible to decompile x86?18:10
Luke-Jr_no idea, never tried18:10
lcukim surei n the last few years SOMEONE mustv written a decompiler for x86 ;)18:10
Luke-Jr_in theory, it's possible to decompile anything18:10
wazdlcuk: what do you mean "missclick"?)18:10
lcukwazd, because of the expected gesture and motion a left to right wipe is more clumsy than the expected up down movement18:11
Luke-Jr_lcuk: but do note I said "bytecode". I don't care much for ARM assembly. :þ18:11
lcukand leads to your swipe being read as a click18:11
Luke-Jr_I can understand the bytecode much better.18:11
lcukso why do you care so much against x86?18:11
timeless_mbpwazd: well...18:11
wazdlcuk: you have any statistics to prove that?)18:11
Luke-Jr_lcuk: x86 is so bad, nothing *really* implements it anymore18:11
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Stskeepsmhm18:12
timeless_mbpwazd: for one, Apple disagrees :)18:12
Stskeepshttp://www.nokia.com/press/press-releases/showpressrelease?newsid=132445618:12
Luke-Jr_lcuk: all modern "x86" processors are really some obscure RISC with an emulator on top18:12
lcuki have a duffed up n810 that i have spent the last 16 months coding for and testing specifically how to scroll and move18:12
lcukso, yeah i do18:12
lcukon a perfect screen maybe18:12
lcukbut once the gloss wears off..18:12
Luke-Jr_Stskeeps: yeah, that's what I was responding too18:12
lcukluke-jr, event less reason to rage then18:12
wazdlcuk: you probably mean one handed use18:13
Luke-Jr_lcuk: if I could use the underlying RISC directly, I wouldn't be annoyed by it :þ18:13
lcukwazd i mean USE18:13
Luke-Jr_or at least not as much18:13
lcukone or two handed doesnt matter, its the fact side swipes are less precise than updown18:13
wazdlcuk: Well, I haven't got any problems with scrolling from left to right of from top to bottom18:13
lcukwhat device do you do side-side testing on?18:14
lcukand what apps?18:14
* lcuk would like to test18:14
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lardmansorry, long 10min18:15
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Stskeepsandre__: it's still a performance issue and patch is there and works for us, - misaligned access causes performance problems :) but for us, we just want it to go into upstream as we actually genuinely fixed a problem :P18:17
lcukwazd, the map in liqbase allows full side toside, play for a while and see whether its as responsive as doing updown18:17
Stskeepsandre__: re 402318:17
wazdlcuk: I can just scroll the browser around18:18
andre__Stskeeps, yeah. and i sometimes wonder why it's so hard to integrate a trivial 3 liner...18:18
lcukmost webpages are geared for updown18:18
lcukits not a real test is it18:18
lardman~curse Word-art18:19
lcuk~lart lardman18:20
* infobot stabs lardman18:20
* lcuk doesnt know what lart means tho18:20
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qwerty12_N810~help lart18:21
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lardman~lart infobot18:21
* infobot urinates on lardman18:21
qwerty12_N810Desc: Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool18:21
lardmanlol18:21
wazdlcuk: I mean, I can rotate the screen))18:21
qwerty12_N810lardman: good job you didn't give it your viagra18:22
derfLART is a StrongARM board with 32 MB RAM and 4 MB ROM, with 250 MIPS in under 1 W.18:22
lardmanI thought it was talking about stabbing with a chopstick or knife actually....18:22
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lcukwazd, a quick test and tick of a box does not confirm much.  thats not usability testing really ;)18:22
lardmanhey derf18:23
derfHey lardman.18:23
derfWhat's new in maemo-bardcode land?18:23
lardmannothing yet18:23
derfHow did your QR code scavenger hunt go?18:23
lardmanbut I'm going to start doing some hacking this evening18:23
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wazdlcuk: I'll try to scroll 100 times and cont how may will fail18:23
lardmanI started thinking about it, but was really busy before the wedding18:23
wazdlcuk: sounds like a test for me18:23
derfYeah, if you're not really busy before your wedding, you're doing it wrong.18:24
lardmananyway I thought I might add a python wrapper for batoo and for your QR code decoder and do some python hacking18:25
lcukwazd, nokia have mechanical testing facilities, thats not whats being said.   it doesnt matter really tho, whichever way its laid out it should be feasible to just be flipped orientation wise by the dev18:26
lcukso if it proves unreliable in realworld it can be changed18:27
lardmanderf: might get some people writing some apps more quickly that way18:27
lardmanand the ui stuff is less of a pita than the wonders of GTK+ in C18:27
lardmanafair18:27
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derfWell, I am no fan of Python on an embedded device, but something is better than nothing.18:30
derfI still need to add some DoCoMo tag parsing at some point.18:31
Stskeepspython-launcher helps a  bit :P18:31
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lardmanderf: yes, I had a quick look at the stuff on their website18:32
derfI mean, it's not much work, I just have to figure out what I want the API to look like, mostly.18:32
guysoft422Hey, is it possible to rotate pose's (palmos emulstor) screen?18:32
guysoft422emulator*18:32
lardmanderf: you plan to add it to the C code?18:33
lardmanI was thinking more of letting someone write their own in python18:33
derfWell, it'd probably be less code in Python.18:33
lardmansome advantages ;)18:33
k_Hi, i have question about irssi for n810 os2008 is allowed somewhere or i can download for that tablet?18:33
derfYou only have to load 20 MB of shared libraries or whatever it is to use it!18:34
lardmanyeah, but other people are already using it, so it should hopefully be free18:34
lardmanI do agree with you though about it being a bit distasteful18:34
lardmanbut it would be nice to get somehting up and running, then convert it to C for the sake of speed/memory efficiency18:35
derfRight.18:35
derfOne step at a time.18:35
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derfIt would also be nice to get support for more formats in a more integrated library.18:35
derfBut I am unlikely to have that kind of time for the forseeable future.18:36
lardmansame here18:36
lardmanzbar looks like it does a variety of 1D and even stacked 1D I think18:36
derfzbar?18:36
k_Anyone can help me? from where i can download irssi for n810?18:36
GAN800Intel . . . ugh18:36
StskeepsGAN800: at least they are going to cooperate in some good areas18:36
* Stskeeps welcomes the move18:36
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lardmanderf: http://zbar.sourceforge.net/18:37
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lardmanGAN800: has it been officially announced?18:37
lardmanderf: ah no, just 1D, not stacked stuff18:37
derfWell, even "a variety of 1D" is useful.18:38
lardmanyes true18:38
GAN800lardman, see Stskeep's press release.18:38
lardmanI'll have to see about cutting away the Qt and ImageMagick+ deps18:38
GAN800s/'s/s'/18:38
infobotGAN800 meant: lardman, see Stskeeps' press release.18:38
lardmanGAN800: yeah saw that18:38
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derfMmm, "small, layered, ... implemented in C".18:38
derfI like it already.18:38
lardman:)18:38
RST38hmoo all18:39
* GAN800 is less and less interested in what Nokia has to offer.18:39
derfMaybe I should work with them to get the qrcode stuff in their library.18:40
derfThat's probably a better place for it, long term.18:40
GAN800x86 means one thing: Windows18:40
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wazdRST38h: heya18:40
lardmanderf: they seem to just be 1D though18:40
Pavlovwindows ce for all!18:40
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lardmanderf: I think the applications of 1D/stacked 1D and 2D are so different that people are not overly interested in combining them18:41
derflardman: Yes, but the "linear scanner" stage is exactly equivalent to the first step of QR code decoding (i.e., used to locate the finder patterns).18:41
VDVsxlardman, http://code.google.com/p/zxing/wiki/InterestingLinks18:42
lardmanok18:42
derfSo I think it may be a better fit than you'd first suspect.18:42
wazdeveryone was so excited with horizontal scrolling, but noone noticed that bluetooth tab looks like activated button, and this is huge confusing mistake18:42
lardmanyeah, they have managed to do some good there VDVsx18:42
GAN800and Windows means it's just more 'me too' BS.18:42
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derflardman: And they say the play to do PDF-417 eventually, too.18:42
lardmanoh right, I didn't read that far18:43
lardmanwell in that case why not18:43
derfI'll mail them about it.18:43
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VDVsxlardman, you have some QR code libs written in C in the link above18:44
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lardmanthough I'll still wrap the existing code, unless you fancy doing it yourself18:44
wazdRST38h: http://s40.radikal.ru/i090/0906/ee/de0d9b66598f.jpg <- what do you think bout horizontal scrolling?)18:44
wazdGAN800: and you ofcourse :)18:44
RST38hGAN: You got the arrow wrong.18:44
RST38hwazd: I think you should remove the border and probably the scrollbar too18:45
RST38hwazd: Just do it iPod style, but in three columns18:45
lardmanVDVsx: there was only one in C iirc, and derf didn't much like it so wrote his own18:45
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wazdRST38h: I don't know the style of the iPod)18:45
RST38hGAN: Windows->x86, but x86 not -> Windows18:45
RST38hwazd: The first iPods came out with basically a single-column version of the NeXT browser18:46
RST38hwazd: I.e. it shows a plain column of items, you select one, it scrolls right-to-left revealing the next column of items18:46
wazdRST38h: oh18:46
RST38hwazd: No need to invent anything on top of this, other than having 3 columns of course :) (just like the original NeXT browser)18:47
wazdRST38h: I think that vertical scrolling with 2 rows is a bit confusing18:47
wazdRST38h: 3 rows is super confusing :)18:48
RST38hwazd: easy to fix18:48
RST38hwazd: make vertical dividers a bit thicker, add title to each column, make each column scroll separately18:48
wazdRST38h: I think you've missed the idea, it's single list :)18:49
wazdRST38h: not 3 separated18:49
RST38hwazd: ah, so it has just got so many items?18:49
wazdRST38h: yep18:49
wazdRST38h: and it scrolls horizontaly18:49
RST38hwazd: that makes things different =)18:50
RST38hwazd: in this case, I would probably remove all separators18:50
VDVsxAri is back o_0 : http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2009/06/collaboration-upstream-intel-and-others.html18:51
RST38hwazd: although it would look more boring18:51
RST38hVDVsx: Oh, good, so I do not need to keep this confidential any longer18:52
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VDVsxRST38h, lol18:52
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GAN800RST38h, there's no other reason that would justify it.18:57
GAN800and since it is, they're going to have to suppport it.18:57
RST38hGAN: Will better computational performance justify it for you?18:58
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RST38hAs in "MicroB no longer hangs on Slashdot"?18:58
RST38hOr "keyboard input does not lag, even in AbiWord"?18:59
wazdI was thinking, maybe remove that main window borders and make all this stuff to fill whole space?18:59
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RST38hwazd: yep18:59
Stskeepsoh please make connman less messed up :P18:59
GAN800RST38h, not at the expense of reasonable battery life.19:00
wazdStskeeps: what do you think bout latest stuff btw?19:00
Stskeepswazd: url?19:00
wazdStskeeps: http://s40.radikal.ru/i090/0906/ee/de0d9b66598f.jpg19:00
GAN800Besides, what the hell kind of use is it to compare stuff from 2007 to current? :rolleyes:19:00
RST38hGAN: What if it ALSO has decent battery life?19:00
* GAN800 really doesn't care to have a discussion about Intel with an employee.19:01
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Stskeepswazd: this pops out of the selection menu? :P19:01
* RST38h is not trying to sell GAN anything just asking19:01
RST38htesting what boundary conditions are19:01
wazdStskeeps: sort of :)19:02
wazdStskeeps: thats not the statusbar applet pop up)19:02
Stskeepswazd: ok19:02
wazdgtg, bbl, kthxbye, roflmao :)19:03
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GAN800Maemo is just one long sigh for me these days.19:04
GAN800I need hardware or I need something that doesn't put me in a bad mood every time I read my email.19:05
* qwerty12_N810 has faith in the hardware but not in the software19:05
wazdGAN800: http://s40.radikal.ru/i090/0906/ee/de0d9b66598f.jpg <- check it out :)19:05
lcukGAN800, what if arm licensed a decent x86 that didnt effect battery consumption but gave even more horsepower19:05
lcukerrr ti i mean19:06
wazdGAN800: and tell me what's awful in it)19:06
GAN800lcuk, that's something that doesn't exist19:06
GAN800ARM is always going to offer better battery life19:06
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lcukwazd, i actually really like it, the style is incredible, mer is coming along a treat.  and most people wont have that many anyway so scroll discussion can wait19:07
wazdGAN800: and yes, stop ignoring me :P19:07
RST38hGAN: Possible but at the moment I would not bet on it19:07
GAN800Horizontal scrolling and grids are not things I enjoy.19:07
lcukGAN800, thats not to say its not feasible19:07
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lcuklots of folks WOULD like to dualboot into windows on their handhelds19:08
* RST38h wouldn't though19:08
GAN800Lots of folks aint me.19:08
GAN800x86 doesn't bring me any benefits that ARM doesn't offer.19:08
lcukthen make a writeup about what your nervana is :) really19:08
GAN800Especially not at the price those benefits would bring.19:08
lcuklead instead of moan :P19:09
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GAN800oh fuck off19:09
guysoft422hi, ill ask again: is there a way to rotate the window of the pose emulator?19:10
johnsqguysoft422: rotate it in the emulator19:11
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, pong?19:11
GeneralAntillesandre__, ping?19:11
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guysoft422johnsq, how??19:11
slonopotamusjohnsq, hello. how's your tablet progress? :)19:11
guysoft422johnsq, i see no button19:11
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johnsqguysoft422: depends on the emulator. when not build it add it.19:12
guysoft422johnsq, pose build 3.5, not sure who compiled it19:13
johnsqslonopotamus: fine. improved my page, playing with infrared.19:13
guysoft422joelmaher_, what do you use?19:13
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, for your consideration: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Brucedavenport19:13
GeneralAntillesWTF19:14
johnsqguysoft422: sorry don't know, than you can try the x11 rotation, with xrender, search on maemo.org how to install.19:14
GeneralAntillesI know a Bruce Davenport.19:14
murraycStskeeps: Does this make sense to you? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473019:14
murraycStskeeps: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4729 is annoying too.19:14
johnsqs/xrender/xrandr19:14
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, if you need help moderating the wiki, count on me, I usually watch the recent changes page :)19:14
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guysoft422johnsq, it seems an overkill, the processor is already having a hard time19:15
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, done.19:15
Stskeepsmurrayc: the SVN isn't the latest HIM as far as i know19:15
andre__GeneralAntilles, argh, do I have another hour?19:15
Stskeeps(re 4730)19:15
andre__right now into some backup bugs testing19:15
GeneralAntillesandre__, I need to go to the autoparts store, so, sure.19:16
murraycStskeeps: Yeah, I guess so. That might explain both bugs.19:16
andre__cool19:16
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slonopotamusjohnsq, i lost link somewhere... :(19:16
johnsqguysoft422: try it, the xrandr is very lowlevel, depends on the code, if it have any speed impacts.19:16
Stskeepsmurrayc: yeah - over 12 months old19:16
johnsqslonopotamus: http://goron.de/~johns/n81019:17
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murraycandre__: The "Input Method Framework" (e.g. bug 4730) has an individual as the default assignee. Shouldn't there be an alias so that more people can watch the bugs. Actually I don't know if there are aliases for anything in bugs.maemo.org.19:17
andre__murrayc, people are expected to watch the qa contact19:18
andre__not the assignee19:18
andre__and the qa contacts are unique19:18
murraycandre__: Oh, right. Thanks. It's fine then.19:18
andre__hmm, so 4729 and 4730 are probably fixed but not for the public because svn code is ancient?19:19
murraycandre__: I guess that Richard Sun should be watching input-method-framework-bugs@maemo.bugs too.19:19
murraycandre__: We don't know for sure. I asked in the bug.19:19
Stskeepsandre__: latest version is in fremantle beta sdk, i just checked timestamp of SVN, 12 months old :P19:19
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andre__gnarf19:19
murraycStskeeps: Are you sure that the version in the beta SDK is newer?19:19
andre__if you're sure, please add a comment to the two repotrs19:20
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Stskeepsmurrayc: 2.0.4 in SVN, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0beta/free/h/hildon-input-method/ says 2.1.1619:20
Stskeeps:P19:20
murraycHarumph.19:21
andre__sigh. nokia.19:21
murraycSecret then public then secret.19:21
lbtQt is in gitorious :)19:21
Stskeepsmurrayc: ah, it was public from prealpha1, but not publically developed :P19:21
lbtkick them harder to follow that example19:21
Stskeeps(as far as i remember it)19:21
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, done, by the way.19:22
GeneralAntillesFeel free to delete.19:22
GeneralAntillesand ban19:22
GeneralAntillesDid we ever get the promised finger keyboard example?19:22
murraycStskeeps: You mean that the source tarball is out there, but not the svn?19:22
murraycGeneralAntilles: That's what I'm working on, slowly.19:23
Stskeepsmurrayc: aye19:23
Stskeeps(url above)19:23
VDVsxGAN800, ok thanks19:23
* murrayc tries to guess where the tarball is.19:24
qwerty12_N810GeneralAntilles: nada19:24
Stskeepsmurrayc: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0beta/free/h/hildon-input-method/ and http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0beta/free/h/hildon-input-method-framework/19:25
murraycOh, yeah, it's right next to the .deb. Sorry.19:25
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guysoft422johnsq, nevermind. granet emulator is much faster19:39
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derflardman: There were none written in C when I wrote mine. There was one in C++, and a port of that to Objective C, and one in Java, none of which are the same.19:40
johnsqguysoft422: and no need to rotate extra for this application19:40
pupniki built the first pose guysoft422 .  for your trivial pursuit score.19:41
Stskeepsdear god on the hypocracy of the nokia-siemens and iran stuff..19:42
Stskeeps(it made it to danish newspapers now)19:43
Luke-Jr_wtf?19:43
Stskeepsthat they sold interception and monitoring software/hardware to iran19:43
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johnsqnokia helped with censorship19:44
Luke-Jr_this is a problem?19:44
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StskeepsLuke-Jr_: while not looking at what their own countries are doing, people are really upset about it19:44
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Stskeepsand fact is, it's not the interception you need to look at, that's simple, it's the really scary shit that's possible given sufficient computing power :>19:45
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Luke-Jr_johnsq: authorities have legitimate power to censor.19:45
johnsqthey can sell the same stuff in germany, we also get good censorship19:45
Luke-Jr_and from the little said here, it sounds more like it's self defense19:45
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Stskeepsbut making nokia the bad guy is like blaming tcpdump author for the atrocities done with it..19:46
Stskeeps:P19:46
Luke-Jr_I'm not really sure what "atrocities" Iran is responsible for that makes it any different from any other nation.19:47
Stskeepsnone, at all19:47
Stskeepsbut press / idiots spin it like it's something terrible nokia-siemens did :P19:47
Luke-Jr_well, it's not just Nokia..19:48
Luke-Jr_ESR seems to think there's some reason to rebel there19:48
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VDVsxderf, there is one now: http://megaui.net/fukuchi/works/qrencode/index.en.html19:50
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lardmanderf: sorry, hazy memory :)19:58
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lardmanlcuk: wine now, the real stuff20:00
lardman:)20:00
derfVDVsx: You linked to an encoder, not a decoder.20:00
lardmanderf: interestingly I can't find the batoo c source that we're using in maemo-barcode anymore20:00
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derfBut I think I know the one you're talking about, and I've tried it, and not only does it depend on OpenCV and use tons of floating point, but it's not very robust.20:00
lardmanthankfully we imported the c file and header20:00
derflardman: :)20:00
Luke-Jr_that is *one* advantage to GPL20:01
Luke-Jr_virtually impossible to lose the code20:01
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suihkulokkiGPL - free as free geographically distributed backups20:02
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lardmanthis was just a conversion the author did, but it wasn't used in any binary20:02
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VDVsxderf, ups, sorry20:03
lardmanthough I'm sure it's scudding around in someone's "Random source codes I might want to use one day" directory ;)20:03
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VDVsxlardman, yah, batoo is now listed as a java app: BaToo Java/J2ME 1D reader :(20:06
lardmanwell you can grab the batoo.c file from the maemo-barcode svn if you want20:06
lardman:)20:06
lardmanit was always Java, with some Symbian C++ code too, and just happened to have a C port at the time20:07
lardmantbh I can't find a link for any source on that site now, despite it all being GPL20:07
VDVsxlardman, by the same authors ?20:07
VDVsxthe c code20:07
lardmanyep20:08
VDVsxstrange20:08
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lcukarchive.rgo20:09
lcukarchive.org even20:09
lardmanit may still be there hidden away on the source download page wherever that is now20:09
lardmanlcuk: yeah, I've also got a tarball somewhere on my machines20:10
timeless_mbpandre__: more bugs for you :)20:10
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lcukbitrot is the cause of lots of heartache20:11
lardmantrue, but the code works and the standard is very very old so won't be chaning20:11
lardmanchanging20:11
lcukdeffo20:12
lcuki really like the idea of taking a 5mp photo of a load of things and identifying all barcodes present20:12
lcuk:$20:12
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lardmanme too, and now I also have some time to get stuff done :20:13
GeneralAntillesApple loser wont call me back.20:15
lardmanyou still not got your machine sorted out?20:15
GeneralAntillesThe case has rust all over it.20:15
GeneralAntillesSo it was "repaired"20:15
lardmantut tut, having a processor that requires water cooling ;)20:15
GeneralAntillesWell, if I can get a new machine out of it I'd say it was a pretty good purchase. ;)20:16
lardman:)20:16
GeneralAntillesMy time is relatively inexpensive next to the cost of a new Mac Pro.20:16
GeneralAntillesAnyway, off to the autoparts store to bludgeon my hateful Camry into submission.20:16
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lardmanlol20:17
lardmangood luck20:17
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derflardman: Anyway, I've mailed the zbar developer.20:18
derfWe'll see what he says.20:18
lardmancool20:19
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GeneralAntillesBleh, guy's on a training seminar. Talking to somebody else.20:52
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GeneralAntillesandre__, ping?20:54
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lopzhi ;)21:14
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andre__GeneralAntilles, cleaning up my stuff right now and resetting testzilla21:18
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: so, the local apple like store replaced the ram on my mbp21:28
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timeless_mbpso,... anyone here familiar w/ vpnc?21:30
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timeless_mbphrm.... how does one actually use vpnc?21:31
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* timeless_mbp cries21:32
timeless_mbpso um...21:32
timeless_mbpNM so doesn't work for VPN stuff on Mer21:32
Stskeepsis the -vpnc module installed?21:33
Stskeepsokay, virtualbox can pull a bit more i/o than i anticipated21:34
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Stskeeps30mb/s21:34
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: you need some tuition on lump-hammer weilding? ;)21:34
timeless_mbpwhat -vpnc thing?21:35
timeless_mbpi have 'vpnc' installed21:35
Stskeepsthere's a network-manager-vpnc thing .. sec21:35
timeless_mbpwell, there is a vpn tab in nm21:35
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timeless_mbpwhich so doesn't fit in 800x48021:35
Stskeepsapt-get install network-manager-vpnc21:36
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GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, worst part about warranty repairs is that it's all stuff I could do myself.21:37
GeneralAntilleslardman, fog lights keep blowing the fuse21:37
timeless_mbpi was pretty amazed w/ the service here21:37
GeneralAntillesFuse holder melted this last time21:37
timeless_mbpthey replied, gave me an address which i pass every day21:37
GeneralAntillesand the right rear window is stuck.21:37
timeless_mbpi went past it, to the store i recognized, they walked me around the corner21:37
lardmanGeneralAntilles: you get fog in Florida!?21:38
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, I gotta drive 30 minutes to a mall out in Tampa.21:38
timeless_mbpi left my laptop there, walked home and got my badge21:38
GeneralAntilleslardman, often enough21:38
timeless_mbpand walked back to the store... the guy was just about done :)21:38
lardmanfair enough21:38
GeneralAntilleslardman, but I leave them on all the time, really.21:38
timeless_mbpthen i walked back to work :)21:38
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lardmanalong with the blue strip lights underneath? ;)21:38
* lardman ducks21:38
GeneralAntilleslardman, nice for illuminating the road on the sides and directly in front21:38
GeneralAntillesOEM fog lights. ;)21:39
lardmanillegal in the uk, but people still do it21:39
* lardman heads off to write thank-you letters21:40
GeneralAntillesMy front end looks mostly like: http://www.toyotanation.com/photos/data/523/medium/01_05_Camry_SE_V6.jpg21:41
GeneralAntillesExcept the US version21:41
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* xnt14 is away: gaming22:05
* xnt14 is away: I'll Be Back22:06
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: I thought you were going to show a picture of something that had already seen a lump-hammer :)22:41
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johnsqHi22:54
stskeepswb22:56
RST38hmhm22:57
qwerty12_N810hi johnsq, RST38h22:57
RST38hThis has to be a common faq: Why doesn't Ikea sell coffins?22:59
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qwerty12_N810Most wouldn't like the idea of assembling it =)22:59
RST38hDepends on the intended occupant...23:00
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RST38hOh shit somebody already thought about it: http://home.arcor.de/edwink/anzeigen/coffin.jpg23:01
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qwerty12_N810Tesco Value coffin or nothing23:02
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johnsqDoes the n810 have good audio input? on the laptop learning IR works.23:04
timelysJohn, iirc the n800/n810 have an audio jack23:08
timelysFor a headset23:09
johnsqtimelys: I'm must check. how it works.23:11
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arpdoes anyone know where to download ubuntu_9.04_n8x0-2.2_rootfs.tgz23:41
arpmaemobox.org seems to be down :/23:41
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stskeepsmaemobox.org is permanently down23:43
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arpis there any other place to download the jaunty rootfs?23:43
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lbtarp: any reason you want raw ubuntu?23:44
stskeepsbeyond masochism ;)23:45
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arpi want to see how jaunty works on the n810 device23:45
lbtarp: I ask since Mer is a sane version of ubuntu for the N8x023:45
arpi read somewhere that Mer was a litle slow?23:46
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lbtit's certainly not finished yet... but it uses much of the ubuntu code23:47
lbtso you'll be even slower running raw ubuntu23:47
Stskeepsslow? :P it's pure X deception :P23:48
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arpif i'm unhappy with jaunty i'll try mer or some other dist23:49
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johnsqslow processors and small screen for developers and every thing works fine without patching.23:54
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RST38hSts: They swept that Sapwood bug under the carpet23:58
RST38hCan you believe this?23:58
StskeepsRST38h: we're happy at the moment, it's one of our own detals23:59
Stskeepsdeltas23:59
Stskeepsonly23:59
Stskeeps(it works perfectly)23:59
qwerty12_N810RST38h: you're not surprised, right? :)23:59
RST38hnot really23:59
qwerty12_N810Thought so ;)23:59

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