IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-06-24

RST38hI will bitch about that though, it is getting ridiculous00:00
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StskeepsRST38h: well it's a matter of prioritising stuff i guess00:01
Stskeepsbesides that, it's not marked WONTFIX, it will just be looked at later00:02
RST38hSts: this is minor stuff which is already debugged and FIXED for them00:02
RST38hthey just need to apply a minor fix00:02
RST38hJustifying why they do not want to fix it probably took longer time than fixing it would00:03
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StskeepsRST38h: we should make a semantic proof of it :P00:03
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lardmannight all00:04
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* RST38h bitched. A few dozen of Terror pages and sleep now.00:07
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lcukmad idea00:08
lcukx11 in 256color greyscale00:09
lcuknatively supported by x11 itself00:09
lcuk?00:09
Stskeepsi would assume so? :P00:09
RST38hlcuk: yea, why not?00:09
RST38hWill look like NeXTstep too00:09
lcukhalf way house to super speed graphics is all00:09
johnsqlcuk: the x11 terminals was black/white00:09
lcukso its theoretically feasible to switch the omap driver into YUV mode at the low end, and feed it x11 data as greyscale directly00:10
RST38hjohnsq: that is 2bpp though00:10
lcukwith essentially minor modifications00:10
lcukbut a massive boost in render speed00:10
RST38hdo you really need another boost?00:11
lcuknot for me00:11
RST38hah00:11
lcukim happy and already in yuv00:11
lcukits just a thought00:11
johnsqRST38h: the good one was 8bpp00:11
lcuki was stood outside in the sun today and my screen turned greyscale anyway00:11
RST38hjohnsq: totally different display though00:12
lcuk8bpp is optimal for this device00:12
RST38hjohnsq: 8bpp grayscale != black/white00:12
lcukyou cant send a single bitplane down00:12
lcuk256grey :)00:12
johnsqlcuk: more important is hardware blitting and 2d function support.00:12
lcukand i also started thinking about it for the opengl stuff00:13
lcukjohnsq, and x11 itself gives it00:13
lcukthis device isnt slow00:13
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lcukbut it feels it when its rendering layer after layer of fullcolor data00:13
RST38h<sleep>00:13
johnsqlcuk: yes but you must write the lowlevel function in the driver.00:13
lcukalready technically exists00:13
lcukxvideo YUV mode00:14
lcuki use it00:14
lcukthe hardware supports it, the driver supports enabling it in the driver, might need shunting around00:14
lcukbut feasible00:14
lcukmove to greyscale, and you just made 3d software equations 3x faster too00:15
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lcukerrrjust a thought anyway00:16
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pupnik_like that 3d voxel demo i ported00:16
pupnik_and improved00:16
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pupnik_cheers lcuk00:16
lcuk:)00:17
lcukdoes it do paletted 256color too?00:18
* lcuk really goes this time00:18
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lcukbtw yes pupnik_ just like that, you optimized the hell out of it and was the first none movie app that looked fast on this device :)00:20
johnsqlcuk: x11? yes but 256 color apps are a pain.00:20
lcukfor who, the developer or for the driver?00:20
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johnsqlcuk: for the developer, I think most modern apps will fail.00:21
lcukyeah point taken00:21
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Davideanyone have cpp / g++ working00:34
Davideon tablet00:34
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Davidei get incompatible package when tryimg to install00:34
Davide:(00:35
lcukyeah Davide00:35
lcukclean tablet, setup the sdk repositories (same as scratchbox uses)00:35
lcukinstall build-essential i believe00:36
Davideso I have to flash?00:36
Davide:(00:36
lcukno, but you need lots of space for the other stuff you need ;)00:36
lcukits no good havin a compiler and no stdlib or headers to compile against or -dev libs etc ;)00:36
Davidewell I'm running off of the external card00:36
DavideI have space00:37
lcukthen clear off your repositories and try again00:37
lcuknot from app man tho00:37
Davidewhats the repository exactly?00:37
Davideis it repository.maemo.org00:37
Davide?00:37
lcukdeb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk free non-free00:38
lcukdeb http://repository.maemo.org diablo/tools free non-free00:38
lcuki initially went through and installed everything individually and know it works, i even started to make the new liqbase framework in it, i just got frustrated with how slow it was00:39
lcukso reverted back to c :)00:39
Davidewell I just want a C/C++ compiler I'm taking an intro class and would like to compile and write simple C console programs00:40
Davidehaving trouble getting all this to work00:40
lcukDavide, you will find great difficulty getting a working "./configure" and dpkg-buildpackage at the other end (as well as hassles with "make install" - the "install" script blows)00:40
lcukbut actual compilation is fine00:40
Davidewell compile and run the prog in console?00:40
Davideor cant run it?00:40
lcuki compile and run now00:41
lcukusing gcc00:41
lcukbut targeting c00:41
lcukit was the same process with c++00:41
lcukbut slower00:41
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Davideok00:41
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Davidelcuk should they actually show up in the App manager? gcc-3.4?00:43
lcuki dunno, but i doubt it00:43
lcukyou don't expect your mum to install gcc.. ;)00:44
Davideso I entered those 2 repositories.. and in app manager I get "failed to refresh"00:44
lcuk(or maybe you do)00:44
Davideentered for components:  "sdk free non-free"00:44
Davideand "tools free non-free"00:44
lcuki dunno from the app manager00:45
lcuki tend to stay away from it00:45
Davideok well how bout from console?00:45
Davidesudo apt-get install gcc-3.4?00:45
lcuki tend to stay away from that as well if i can help it, i edit00:45
Davideoh00:45
Davidethen how?00:45
lcuk/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list00:45
lcukand put those lines in there :$00:45
johnsqDavide: start terminal. apt-get and apt-cache are your friends.00:46
lcukwindows tree based scp file manager ftw!00:46
Davidelcuk I"m sorta new at linux00:46
lcukdon't worry, im the eternal n00b00:46
Davidejohnsq I get errors from apt-get00:46
DavideI dont know how to get the repositories straight...00:46
DavideI browesd in microb to http://repository.maemo.org00:47
lcukDavide, if you have trouble with linux this *is* gonna be a major uphill struggle00:47
Davideand browsed over to gcc etc...00:47
Davideand when I try to install them it opens app manager and then says incompatible package00:47
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lcukon the info page before you install it has a tab showing dependencies i believe00:48
Davideah00:48
lcukand listing the specific problems, but you have probably got a mix of clean and unclean repositories listed00:48
lcukfor it to even show gcc - especially when you dont appear to have the sdk repos there00:48
Davidenope it just says Unable to install ccp-3.4 Incompatible application package00:49
Davideso frustrating00:49
lcukthe default maemo repositories dont list gcc by default00:49
johnsqDavide: have you a separate computer?00:49
Davideyes00:49
Davidetalking from it00:49
Davideits windows tho00:49
Davide:P00:49
lcukputty and winscp00:49
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Davide?00:49
Davidewhats that?00:50
johnsqDavide: first install openssh and log over network in the device, much quicker working,00:50
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lcuk2 apps which you can use from windows to talk directly to your tablet00:50
lcukand open a console session and run commands from your windows keyboard but running on your tablet00:50
Davideok openssh is installed but idk how to use it johnsq00:50
Davidehow do I work it?00:50
lcukwhen it installed, it asked for a password00:50
lcuki hope you remembered it00:50
Davidepfft idk00:51
Davide=/00:51
lcukyou need to find the ip address/hostname of the tablet00:51
Davidecan I uninstall and reinstall?00:51
lcuki dunno, theres a page somewhere that can tell you how to change it00:51
Davidehow do I get ip address/hostname00:51
johnsqDavide: then you need openssh on your machine under linux, putty on windows.00:51
Davideso dl putty?00:52
lcukyeah00:52
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lcukrunning putty asks for a hostname, username and password00:52
Davideok putty installed00:52
johnsqDavide: you can gainroot on the device and type ifconfig this should show your ip00:52
johnsqDavide: perhaps also over the connection manager.00:53
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lcukif you have super norton antivirus total motherhen care on windows i think it includes a newwork auditor :)00:54
lcukt00:54
lcukhttp://wiki.maemo.org/SSH00:55
Davidehmm trying to connect00:55
Davideidk if I have the right ip tho00:55
qwerty12_N810you don't have a netgear router btw?00:55
Davidelinksys00:56
DavideI have mcafee and avast00:56
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qwerty12_N810good, netgear suck wrt tablets :)00:56
Davidehow do I find out the correct ip?00:57
Davideof my tablet?00:57
Davidethere's a inet addr:00:57
Davidea P-t-P:00:57
Davideand mask:00:57
johnsqDavide: inet addr:192.168.1.xxx is it00:58
Davidethere are two00:58
Davideone in the beginning and one at the end00:58
Davidenone of em are like that00:58
Davideone is 127.0.0/00:58
lcukread em out00:58
lcuklocalhost, other?00:58
Davideand one is 10.178.00:58
johnsqDavide: wlan0 if you use wireless00:58
lcukok, try entering the 10.178... into putty with "root" and your password00:59
lcukthe one you entered when installing openssh00:59
Davidewhat does that mean with root and password? it doesnt ask me anywhere for root or password01:00
lcukusername and password01:00
lcukshould be fields on connection i expect01:00
johnsqDavide: putty under windows01:01
Davidewell eitherway I dont have a username or password01:01
Davidenot sure what that should be01:01
Davide=/01:01
lcukahhh lol01:01
lcuktis ok01:01
lcukjust enter the server01:02
lcukonce you connect you login01:02
lcukthere is an entry deeper in settings01:02
lcukfor auto passing one01:02
Davideya but I get network error...01:02
DavideI cant just do this straight from the tablet?01:02
lcukopenssh-server installed?01:02
Davideyup on tablet01:02
Davideserver and client installed01:02
lcukwhats the connection type set to on putty01:03
Davideshould it bring up a console once it connects?01:03
lcukyes01:03
lcuksaying "login as:"01:04
Davidenope not working I just get Network error01:04
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johnsqDavide: windows firewall ? router firewall?01:05
lcukthe tablet is just another machine on the network, confirm its pingable and stuff using normal windows stuff01:05
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Davideping -> request timed out01:05
Davidenot seeing it01:06
lcuksolve that and a cascade will happen :)01:06
Davide100% loss01:06
Davidewell how do I solve that?01:06
lcukread back over this lot we posted when you connect to the device01:06
DavideI've never been able to see the tablet from my comp01:06
Davidenot sure how that can be done...01:06
Davideanyway why can't I just operate from the terminal in the tablet?01:07
Davidefor whatever is required?01:07
lcukDavide, we can willingly guide you and can help make life simpler but we wont do everything01:07
johnsqDavide: just better working on computer with cut&paste to the nit.01:07
lcukbecause its easier on real keyboar01:07
lcukcos you can just copy paste stuff01:07
lcukand you can just edit files and stuff01:08
Davidegotcha... well I have no idea how to make the nit visible01:08
Davideidk where to start01:08
lcukdoing on device compilation and dev work is a hard task on its own01:08
lcukdoing it all from a tiny keyboard is just tortuous01:08
Davideyeah I agree01:09
Davidewell any idea how to get my comp to see the tablet?01:09
lcukyeah01:10
lcukcheck your firewall settings and your router01:10
lcukand make sure you have the right ip01:10
lcukthen work backwards lol, because i think we told you everything you need to know to get gcc on your device!01:11
Davidethere should be a way to find what devices are connected to the router right?01:12
timeless_mbplcuk: don't suggest hildon-application-manager.list01:12
timeless_mbpthat file is owned by ham01:12
timeless_mbp /sources.list.d/ is a directory01:12
timeless_mbpjust name things diablo-sdk.list, diablo-tools.list, etc.01:13
lcukbut are they listed in HAM when i open it later?01:13
lcukand discovered by it?01:13
lcukand disablable by it?>01:13
lcukor are they for apt only?01:14
timeless_mbpham will show them01:14
qwerty12_N810lcuk: they'll get removed01:14
timeless_mbpand use them01:14
Davidedamn cant find a list of connected devices...01:14
qwerty12_N810if you add them to ham's file i mean01:14
DavideI just have a mac list that use to only allow some devices but it doesnt give ip01:14
lcukhow long after do they get eaten?01:14
timeless_mbpquiting ham or changing something in ham should get them eaten01:15
timeless_mbpit's a write only file from ham's perspective01:15
lcukit reads them in :$01:15
timeless_mbpbut yeah, ham can't disable things that it doesn't own01:15
lcuki always thought s long as it was formatted correctly and ham wasnt running..01:16
lcukjust like any other /etc file01:16
lcuk(most)01:16
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timeless_mbpkinda01:16
timeless_mbpbut ham's native format is an xml file elsewhere01:16
Davideis there another command to check the IP maybe I just dont have the right one01:16
Davideshouldnt it be a 192.168.1.X?01:16
timeless_mbp /sbin/ifconfig -a01:16
qwerty12_N810/sbin/ifconfig wlan001:17
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johnsqDavide: depends on the router. 10.xx.xx.xx or 172.xx.xx.xx01:17
lcuktimeless, didnt realise that, i thought HAM just looked at apt's stuff and worked with what it had01:18
* lcuk shall try to remember that01:18
Daviderouter says 192.168.1.101:18
Davideor whatever01:18
Davidebut idk if its different for wireless01:18
lcukDavide, whats your windows computer ip?01:18
Davideis it the same for wired/wireless?01:18
Davide192.168.1.13601:18
lcukis that fixed or auto set01:19
Davideuhm... idk01:19
timeless_mbplcuk: should liqbase-playground work on Mer?01:19
Davideauto I guess01:19
lcuktimeless_mbp, theres an issue with the graphics driver that it wont do xv yet01:19
DavideAutomatic Configuration - DHCP01:20
lcukbut technically it should01:20
lcukit should run on pretty much anything01:20
lcukhave you played yet?01:20
timeless_mbpit says app.username = user01:21
timeless_mbpwhich is wrong :)01:21
lcukit picks up ~ correctly, but yeah when no username exists it comes up like that by default01:21
lcukim havign a few technical troubles with keyboard input at this moment so i cant ask for one01:22
lcuklike i did in original liqbase01:22
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timeless_mbpbut i don't know my password :)01:23
lcukwhat password?01:23
timeless_mbpfor sudo :)01:23
* lcuk is editing liqkeyboard.c atm01:23
lcuksudoers should have added those as passwordless i think01:23
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lcukdid it run anyway01:24
lcukinstead of teasing me with log flaws :P01:24
qwerty12_N810no, only for the user 'user' ;)01:24
lcuk:D hah01:24
lcukwhich version have you installed timeless01:25
lcuk0.3.12 ?01:25
lcukor an earlier triply broked one01:25
timeless_mbplibliqbase1 0.3.1101:25
timeless_mbpliqbase-playground 0.3.1201:25
lcukon mer?01:25
timeless_mbpyes01:26
timeless_mbpintel/vbox01:26
lcuk:D did you make it yourself or is it through obs already01:26
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lcukive never managed to run liqbase on a vm01:26
lcukit was born native, and lives native :)01:27
timeless_mbpfremantle/free01:27
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lcukyeah i passed it through all 3 builders01:28
lcukive had reports it works on all :)01:28
lcuktheres even an extra thing for people with fremantle01:28
qwerty12_N810what is liqaccelview? :)01:28
lcuk<lcuk> theres even an extra thing for people with fremantle01:28
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qwerty12_N810I see, it's like that :P01:29
lcukquim posted some details a while ago about the accelerometer01:29
* timeless_mbp grumbles01:29
lcuki made a live updating graph for it01:29
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timeless_mbpthe "pool" package has bad dependencies01:29
lcukshowing x,y,z got from the /sys or wherever branch01:29
lcuki originally wrote it to use it with sampppas heartrate monitor01:30
lcukerrr the one ecoach plugs into01:30
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lcuktimeless_mbp, "pool" package, is that something im doing, or just something you noticed in general01:35
timeless_mbpunrelated to you01:35
lcukk :) you dont know how relieved i am to know that ;)01:35
timeless_mbpJoni Kokko's pool game01:35
timeless_mbpit might be that the python-hildon package i pulled in isn't working01:35
* timeless_mbp shrugs01:35
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ipndrmathDoes anyone know why the labs and themes do not work for gmail on the N810?02:30
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ipndrmathOpps. Disconnected. Back.02:32
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ipndrmathAnyone have any idea where else I could ask less the forums?02:36
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coldbootipndrmath: Nobody's going to know, I'd guess.02:59
jophishDoes anybody here use navit?02:59
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ipndrmathcoldboot: thanks anyways. :/03:07
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EdLinso what do people think of the Nokia/Intel deal and Maemo? Anyone know what's going on with that?04:03
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SpCombis it common for N810 devices to flip out and go into a reboot cycle when you start charging them?04:09
SpComb/proc/bootreason is sw_rst, /var/lib/dsme/stats/sw_rst is 1521 and grows every time, /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets has "/usr/bin/bme_RX-44 :  1783 *"04:10
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SpCombjudging by how this has caused my tablet to reboot 1500 times, it's kind of annoying :)04:10
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SpCombbut it hasn't always done this, it worked fine for a year, must have started after I installed some updates or such04:14
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SpCombfeh04:15
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Luke-Jr_SpComb: it's a known problem04:20
Luke-Jr_EdLin: Intel sucks04:20
EdLinLuke-Jr_: well, some time in the future, bets are the Nokia Internet Tablet's successor won't be ARM according to this deal.04:21
Luke-Jr_EdLin: fine. I wasn't planning to buy from Nokia ever again anyway.04:24
EdLinLuke-Jr_: why?04:24
Luke-Jr_because I made the mistake of buying a N81004:25
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EdLinLuke-Jr_: I love my N81004:25
Luke-Jr_somehow I got the impression it was an open platform04:25
EdLinum, not all of it, just most of it.04:25
Luke-Jr_and I could use it for GPS04:25
* b-man16 loves his n80004:25
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Luke-Jr_I certainly did NOT expect to find a closed and abandoned platform.04:26
Luke-Jr_and that I would need to spend weeks to make it work04:26
EdLinLuke-Jr_: it's not abandoned, Nokia is coming out with the N900 and made a deal with Intel.04:26
Luke-Jr_it IS abandoned04:26
Luke-Jr_N900 is not N81004:27
Luke-Jr_I didn't buy a N810 to be told I needed to buy a N900.04:27
EdLinwelcome to Nokia. Even their flagship Symbian platform has incompatibilities from version to version.04:27
Luke-Jr_this isn't incompatibilities04:27
EdLinwell, I should say total incompatibilities04:28
Luke-Jr_this is the product not working, and losing support before there's a newer product04:28
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EdLinLuke-Jr_: how are you losing support?04:28
Luke-Jr_EdLin: Nokia refuses to support N81004:28
EdLinLuke-Jr_: now?04:28
Luke-Jr_yes04:28
EdLin:-(04:28
b-man16:(04:28
Luke-Jr_and their gpsdriver blob is full of bugs04:28
Luke-Jr_and effectively useless04:28
EdLinno more maemo updates?04:28
Luke-Jr_not for N81004:29
EdLin:-(04:29
Luke-Jr_Maemo updates are for N900 when that comes out04:29
Luke-Jr_here's hoping some other company makes a nice clamshell soon04:29
Luke-Jr_with an actual open platform04:29
Luke-Jr_heck, they don't even need to include software for all I care04:29
Luke-Jr_as long as it's open04:29
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GAN800Fun Florida lightning storms06:47
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timsamoffHappening here in Kansas City as well.06:57
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xnt14ok guys, I have to go to sleep, if you see b-man tell him I went to sleep07:11
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b-man16~seen xnt1407:25
infobotxnt14 <n=xnt@96.246.48.44> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 13m 24s ago, saying: 'ok guys, I have to go to sleep, if you see b-man tell him I went to sleep'.07:25
b-man16xD07:25
b-man16ok07:25
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thuxmorning09:07
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* Stskeeps ponders on connman09:13
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johnxmmm...skip-free a2dp and apt-get at the same time in mer :D09:45
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johnxN810 gets nice and warm though09:47
Stskeepsgood for the winter times09:48
johnxyup, or a cold office in the summer time09:48
johnx<- works someplace with some seriously overactive HVAC09:48
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Meiz_n810I should get a new battery.. i just charged this one, and now 10minutes later advanced-power says 62.5% O_o09:49
johnxif I complain about it too much I half expect them to just put the HVAC system under the heading of "IT duties and reponsibilities"09:49
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Macerlol09:56
Macerthe dude from the fray said something so Zoolander that i couldn't help but laugh09:56
Macer"You only get one chance to make your second album..."09:56
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RST38hmoo all09:57
johnxm00f RST38h09:58
RST38hjohnx: hiw are things? =)09:58
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johnxpretty good09:58
johnxwork is work, hacking at home has slowed down a bit09:58
johnxplaying with a2dp in mer though09:58
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RST38hheh09:59
* RST38h has not done much hacking lately, all work instead09:59
johnxwell, work either has to cut into my sleeping time or my hacking time10:00
johnxand I can sleep when I'm dead, but the same can't be said for hacking :D10:00
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Macerjohnx.. turn mer into a profitable milti million dollar conglomerate and you wont have to work anymore10:02
Maceryou can hack from your waikeekee paradise beach house10:02
Stskeepshey, that was my plan ;)10:02
Macerhaha10:02
Macerwell. you sont have to be greedy Stskeeps. there is enough conglomerate money for everybody10:03
Macersont/dont10:03
Macerplus. you are in dk. your people would get homes inside a ski rrsort10:04
Stskeepswe have almost no snow.10:04
Macerwow really?10:04
Maceri always figured dk had mountains with snow10:04
Stskeepswe're hardly scandinavian10:05
Stskeepsno mountains10:05
Macerheh10:05
Stskeepsonly rock on a small island east10:05
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johnxyou were complaining about snow last winter :P10:05
Macerwow. then nevermind haha10:05
Stskeepsjohnx: yes, but it is not mountains10:05
Maceri always pictured dk having close mountains where rich white americans travel to10:05
Macerin order to ski and snort cocaine and what not10:06
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Macerwell.. guess i should go to europe some day to understand it better10:07
Macerhaha10:07
Maceri have been to 5 out of 7 continents so far10:08
Maceri still think aisa and europe should be considered 110:08
Macerasia10:09
Macerwtf. i need to get my brain checked. or maybe it is this g1 qwerty10:09
Macertoo much left right hemisphere with the thumbs10:09
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MacerStskeeps: the zfs cifs is kind of broken10:12
RST38hMacer: they are one =)10:12
Maceri ran into a bug where it wouldn't kill something when i restarted it.. i had to reboot it10:12
MacerRST38h: well.. i mean geologically speaking10:12
Maceri guess they are on different plates10:13
Macerbut still :)10:13
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anders_gudhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=299242&postcount=219  :-)10:15
anders_gudPlan for the OMAP2 acceleration drivers!!!10:16
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* Stskeeps looks10:18
MacerThis view is held by some geographers and is preferred in Russia (which spans Asia and Europe), East European countries and Japan. The separation of Eurasia into Europe and Asia is viewed by some as a residue of Eurocentrism: "In physical, cultural and historical diversity, China and India are comparable to the entire European landmass, not to a single European country.10:18
Macereurocentrism? :)10:19
Macerhaha10:19
X-Fadeanders_gud: Yeah, that is what we were told at the Danish weekend.10:19
Stskeepsit's good to have it on paper though10:20
X-FadeI'm still worried about the hardware problem though.10:20
X-FadeEven if we have a perfect driver, it might not perform like everybody expects.10:20
X-FadeBut let's see. It would be a cool addition.10:21
Stskeepsi don't expect to be able to run hildon desktop on it, personally, but we can -probably- do a lot of nice things10:21
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X-FadeThings that are not bandwidth intensive might work, yes.10:21
anders_gudIm just glad to get it OSS'd10:21
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qwerty12_N810X-Fade: Morning, I've been asked to update the libwebkit (not my choice, uploading webkit to the autobuilder scares me) that is in extras-devel. I have no intention to get tarred and feathered again, ;) so would you mind keeping a watchful eye upon it when I upload it please?10:25
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Sure, go ahead. I'll keep an eye on it.10:26
qwerty12_N810Thanks, still waiting on the svn export :)10:26
anders_gud@stskeeps Is pressure sensitivity back in Mer 0.14?10:26
RST38hMacer: Europeans is a bunch of small insignificant people populating the western coast of Eurasia =)10:26
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: It is a work day, so I can always request a reboot ;)10:26
qwerty12_N810hehe10:26
Stskeepsanders_gud: we found where it originates - -tslib doesn't send in pressure information10:27
Stskeepsanders_gud: and we are switching back to Xomap in 0.15 probably10:27
RST38hMacer: The only reason why they have survived to this day is that human meat is not considered to be a significant ingredient in Chinese cousine10:27
Stskeeps(where pressure information works)10:27
anders_gudOk -Great! when is 0.15 out?10:28
Stskeepsanders_gud: ~2-3 weeks?10:28
Stskeepsanders_gud: Nokia has a seperate xf86-input-tslib implementation where pressure information is sent, if you'd like to make a xf86-input-tslib patch containing this you're welcome too10:28
Stskeepsso we have it on all platforms10:28
Stskeeps(i think it's 5 lines extra)10:29
Luke-Jrlol10:31
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* Stskeeps ponders idly if he just saw someone in a MMDW tshirt10:43
anders_gudI can't find anything now... I'll have a look later. Thanks for the great work on Mer though...10:43
Stskeepsk10:43
X-FadeStskeeps: It wasn't me ;)10:43
anders_gudDont get lost in the huge mountains of Denmark ;-) later10:44
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JaffaMorning, all11:24
Stskeepsmorning jaffa11:25
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qwerty12_N810X-Fade: uploading (eek...)11:38
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Nothing else is building, so you have it all to yourself ;)11:39
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qwerty12_N810Webkit'll appreciate it ;)11:40
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qwerty12_N810X-Fade: Now I'm just recieving e-mails every 5 mins saying the package's state is unknown. Another loop and, this time, it can't blamed on me as it hasn't even got to building... ;)12:15
lcukyeah right qwerty :P12:15
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timeless_mbpheh12:18
Stskeepsmorning timeless12:18
timeless_mbpwell, 20past noon, but sure. hello12:19
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Hmm I see the files in the incoming queue.12:19
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Can't find 'architecture' field in dsc file12:20
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qwerty12_N810Bollocks, it should be there, thanks12:20
lcukheh qwerty12_N810, should i help you with packaging *grin*12:21
qwerty12_N810And, looking at the control, there is an architecture field. No idea why it hasn't made its way to the dsc12:21
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crashanddieqwerty12_N810: my topic has gone :(12:22
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: if you haven't already, please kill it :)12:23
crashanddieso what's the word on the tubes about Intel?12:23
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: I wiped the .dsc12:23
qwerty12_N810crashanddie: damn! it survived for a long while though :)12:23
Stskeepscrashanddie: good, standards12:23
X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: So you only have to upload a new .dsc12:23
Stskeepscrashanddie: and we won't have to fight with a lot of different area12:23
Stskeepss12:23
crashanddie(btw, if anyone didn't see this coming when Intel bought OpenedHand...)12:23
qwerty12_N810X-Fade: awesome, thanks12:24
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X-FadeHmm what will happen with connection management now that Connman enters the scene? :)12:29
timeless_mbphrm12:31
timeless_mbpi should note that view>list in windows explorer scrolls horizontally12:31
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StskeepsX-Fade: if Connman actually works with WPA, bring it on12:38
Stskeepsand sane tethering solutions12:38
X-FadeStskeeps: I don't know, but I guess we will see soon(ish) :)12:38
X-FadeI just approved the project in garage btw :)12:39
Stskeepsproject of connman?12:39
lcukfrom what i read people were saying its hot air at the moment and intent to code rather than production of new stuff12:39
X-Fadeyep12:39
StskeepsX-Fade: public or closed? :P12:39
X-FadeStskeeps: Would I talk about it if it was closed? :)12:39
lcukhell yeah12:40
lcukyou tell us loads of stuff after your breakfast beer12:40
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X-Fadelol12:40
X-FadeBut I'm guessing this will be Harmattan or even Inverna stuff.12:41
Stskeepsi think so too12:41
lcukis it a qt project then o_O12:41
X-Fadelcuk: No, lower layers.12:41
lcuk:) so  usable by mere c code ;) :D12:42
X-Fadelcuk: Probably d-bus driven.12:42
lcukand mer c code as well ;)12:42
X-FadeAnyway, probably a good thing to watch this spot: https://git.maemo.org/projects//gitweb?p=connman;a=summary :D12:43
lcukcool12:46
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practisevoodoodoes anyone managed to get cairo working using pygtk under maemo?12:52
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N810: Lol, it now says it failed. But it is actually still building :)13:02
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qwerty12_N810Hehe :)13:03
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derflardman|gone: zbar guy seems willing to integrate the QR stuff.13:03
derfAnd he's already got some PDF417 code... no idea how far along it is.13:04
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: filing bugs? :)13:05
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X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Bugs already known.13:06
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kwizarthello ! I have two quick question! I involved in alsa-plugins packaging which has a module that target maemo devices (dsp via dbus etc), for which arches does theses plugins to be built make sense?13:07
kwizartI'm Involved...13:08
kwizartdoes x86 arches make sense for develompment purpose ?13:08
X-Fadekwizart: x86 for development headers etc.13:08
kwizartand arm (for maemo devices) are %arm armv3l armv4b armv4l armv4tl armv5tel armv5tejl armv6l armv7l13:08
Stskeepsdsp via dbus? O_o13:08
X-FadeBut armel for running.13:08
kwizartI was said that only the lastest ' armv6l armv7l ' are suitable for maemo13:09
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lardmanmorning13:30
practisevoodooanyone got any experience with pygtk? Im having trouble getting DrawingAreas to work on my n81013:31
pupnikhuhu13:31
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derflardman: Did you see my comment above?13:32
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lardmanah yes, good news :)13:38
lcukpractisevoodoo, i was under the impression that kind of stuff worked, are you following the tutorials or trying the default examples?13:38
Stskeepslardman: saw the 3d status?13:38
lardmannope13:38
lardmanlinky?13:38
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Stskeepshttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=299242&postcount=21913:39
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practisevoodoolcuk, the trouble is that i cant find a tutorial for it on maemo, but thats fair enough, im using the normal tutorials and tweaking them to work (or not as the case is)13:40
lardmanStskeeps: great news13:40
lardmanthanks qgil wherever you are :)13:40
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lardmanIs it just me, or are there problems opening jpegs of 10mb size or thereabouts?13:43
pupnikin browser?13:45
lardmanno, image viewer13:45
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Stskeepslardman: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/kki_ap/samsung-ap-2.6.git;a=tree;f=drivers/media/video/samsung;h=7e157a0c1552efa1d7954f29142731cd19c96dec;hb=HEAD might be of interest too13:46
Stskeeps(yes, it's open source)13:46
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lardmanthose are the accel drivers for the smartQ chips I take it?13:47
lardmanbut available freely now rather than NDA'd?13:47
Stskeepsaye13:48
* lardman wonders if the IVA will ever get drivers13:48
lardmanone thing at a time :)13:48
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lcuklardman,  unloved stepchild ;)13:49
lardmanyeah, just thinking about my jpeg browsing13:49
lcukyeah, you signed up for new pron site with hires images then? :p13:50
lardmanyep, my Red Sea underwater fish pron13:50
lardmanactually that sounds like it could really be pron :D13:50
lcuki had a fish image that kept killing libjpg13:50
StskeepsMer wallpapers? ;p13:51
lardmanI may have to pull my finger out and try that DSP jpeg decoder13:51
lcukout of the fish?13:51
lardmanyeah, they bite the little buggers13:51
Stskeepslcuk, lardman: http://blip.tv/file/2244689 ;p13:52
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Stskeepsarr13:53
Stskeepsno, not that one13:53
lardmanI quite liked that one :)13:53
Stskeepshttp://blip.tv/file/224851413:54
Stskeeps(xfishtank as boot screen)13:54
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lardmanvery good, now you just need the fish to give birth to new processes and we can have a graphical bootchart ;)13:56
Stskeepshehe13:57
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lardmanso is sounds working now - after seeing your comment about pulse audio via DSP?13:58
lardmans/comment/pointer to patch13:58
pupnik!13:58
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Stskeepslardman: we haven't been able to test it yet13:59
Stskeepsit compiles but we havent tested it yet:P14:00
lardmanok14:00
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lcukStskeeps, still warm in helsinki then lol14:05
X-Fadelcuk: It is actually not lying that much ;)14:07
lcukgood good14:07
X-FadeAs it is 24C there now ;)14:07
lcukholy smokes, no wonder everyones happy :p14:08
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RST38hlardman:,Stskeeps: just make it pour that water in on bootup =)14:09
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practisevoodoolcuk, do you have any experience with pygtk?14:19
xnt14[server]~seen b-man1614:19
infobotb-man16 <n=b-man@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6h 53m 59s ago, saying: 'ok'.14:19
xnt14[server]ok14:19
* xnt14[server] notices that his nit opened xchat by itself while in his pocked 14:20
xnt14[server]*pocket :P14:20
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StskeepsRST38h: i was thinking the "hildon crashed" screen would be water flushing out14:22
Stskeeps:P14:22
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lardmanand fish flopping around at the bottom "drowning"14:23
lardman?14:23
Stskeepshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Mer_Incompatible_Bootmenu_Shark_Brighter.jpg is still a favourite14:24
lardman:)14:25
X-FadeStskeeps: Nice.14:25
lardmanneeds some chewing animation14:25
* lardman is glad he didn't see that a few weeks back14:25
X-FadeStskeeps: Although, why reboot if the boot menu is broken anyway?14:25
StskeepsX-Fade: because they have to pop the battery otherwise14:26
Stskeepsto get back into maemo14:26
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X-FadeStskeeps: Ah, I thought that it was not bootable at all at that moment.14:26
StskeepsX-Fade: well, not mer itself, but for the SD scenario it makes sense to reboot14:26
Stskeeps'halt' would work too14:26
pupnikthe n810 speakers are so impressive14:30
pupniknow that they are broken-in14:30
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lcukpupnik, you are starting to sound like an audiphile, when are you replacing the cones with pressed silk and relaying the copper tracks on the circuit board with gold?14:36
lcukpractisevoodoo, no14:37
pupnikheh14:37
lardmandon't forget needing $10k/m interconnects!14:37
pupniki know such idiots14:37
pupnik<- cheapskate audiophile14:38
lcukthats the gold tracks, having a pristine sound all the way from the dsp through the amp and to the speakers is crucial14:38
lardmanI thought it was the low oxygen?14:38
lardman;)14:38
lcukheh14:39
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lcuki suppose you could just electroplate the entire pcb, all connections would then be nicely coated and the electrons could move freer14:40
lcukwithout having to rip up the copper connections14:40
lcukshould save a couple of thousand $ at least14:40
lardman1 cotton bud with which to clean ears, 1p, should probably make as much difference ;)14:40
lcuka cotton bud would just make the awful digital stepping and aliasing of the pure analog signal easier to spot14:41
lcukwhich would mean you would have to spend an EXTRA wad of cash making it better14:42
lcukfalse economy :P14:42
lardmanah, s/cotton bud/used chewing gum ?14:43
lcukyou first :)14:43
lardmanlol14:43
jeremiah_pvanhoof: ping14:45
pvanhoofjeremiah_, pong14:45
jeremiah_pvanhoof: Can you not use ~unreleased in your version string?14:46
pvanhoofok, what should I use instead?14:46
jeremiah_Because once it is built it will be released14:46
pupnikgood sound is like candy - one of the joys of life14:46
jeremiah_Would you be willing to use 1maemo0?14:46
pvanhoofsure14:46
jeremiah_Thanks!14:46
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pvanhooflet's first find out why its failing :)14:46
pvanhoofjeremiah_, if I need valac, what do I add to builddeps?14:47
jeremiah_pvanhoof: Damn good question - I will have to look into that since I don't know off the top of my head.14:47
pvanhoofok :)14:47
pvanhooflet me know14:47
lcukpvanhoof, i dont envy your task, ive just been through packaging14:47
jeremiah_pvanhoof: Are you using vala? I want to use that for somethign14:47
jeremiah_It looks cool.14:47
Jaffapvanhoof: valac is available in extras-devel as "vala"14:47
pvanhooflcuk, :D14:48
pvanhoofJaffa, thanks14:48
pvanhoofjeremiah_, yes, we often use it14:48
jeremiah_But isn't vala the language and valav the compiler?14:48
Jaffa0.7.3 with the glib 2.12 patch from git14:48
pvanhoofjeremiah_, it's available in the platform, but only in extras I think, not sure14:48
jeremiah_s/valav/valac/14:48
infobotjeremiah_ meant: But isn't vala the language and valac the compiler?14:48
pvanhoofjeremiah_, valac is the compiler, yes, vala is the langhage14:48
lcukdifference being?14:48
Jaffajeremiah_: valac is the compiler, but there's no separate runtime - which is why I didn't care too much about the package name being "vala" rather than "valac"14:48
pvanhoofwell, actually vala is a girl in a sci-fi series that juergbi is in love with, but he doesn't want to admit that14:49
jeremiah_pvanhoof: I have looked at some of the docks, need to try to run it.14:49
jeremiah_Jaffa: Ah okay. Thanks.14:49
jeremiah_docks? What, am I on crack?14:49
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lcukjeremiah_, i thought it was kewl lol14:50
jeremiah_;p14:51
pvanhoofJaffa, you have vala > 0.7.0 right?14:51
lcukits like when my missus says "i tried to read the distructions"14:51
jeremiah_heh - that I like14:51
lardmanlcuk: I say that too14:52
wazdhello maemo14:52
lardmanbut more emphasis on "destructions" I think :)14:52
lcukyeah, but im northern and cant spell ;)14:52
lardmanlol14:52
lardmanbacon time14:52
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jeremiah_hello wazd14:53
lcuki just had chicken birriani14:53
lcuk(more spelling)14:53
lcukbrought in by coworkers  wife :)14:53
lcukhi wazd14:53
jeremiah_Is that italian chicken in beer?14:53
jeremiah_due birra prego14:53
Jaffapvanhoof: yup. 0.7.3 :)14:54
lcukindian chicken rice strange sauce and deliciousness :)14:54
pvanhoofJaffa, cool, thx14:54
lcuki need beer tho14:54
lcukboss wont let use drink in work \@/14:54
ukkiJaffa: thanks for the vala btw14:54
Jaffapvanhoof: libgee hasn't been packaged yet - I've not got around to it14:54
pvanhoofjeremiah_, google-album-art-downloader_1.0.0~1maemo0_source.changes sounds better?14:54
pvanhoofJaffa, okay, that's fine, don't need it (others do, though_14:54
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* Jaffa isn't imagining it being hard, with the only interesting bit ensuring that the vapi gets included in the -dev package.14:55
JaffaBTW, anyone know if anyone's working on updated Hildon VAPIs for the new API (panneable area etc.)14:55
pvanhoofJaffa, sync with juergbi , he'll probably be happy to help you14:55
lcuki wonder how fast vala native compilation on device would work on omap3, jaffa, is there a simple no command line test case we could put to quim to get benchmarks..14:55
* xnt14 just notices b-man|sleep14:55
pvanhoofPerhaps it should just be in the official platform, instead of in extras ...14:55
jeremiah_pvanhoof: Well - my preference might be to shorten it a bit.14:55
pvanhoofnah that's fine14:56
jeremiah_okay :)14:56
Jaffalcuk: he'd need to enable the sdk repo on the device, apt-get install vala (pulls in a req for 'c-compiler') and then try compiling vala-sample from extras-devel14:56
lcukballs, not something we can sneak past him then without noticing lol14:57
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Jaffalcuk: not really14:57
lcukc++ is too heavy and i like the idea of back to c compilation :)  it harks back to proper cfront (c with classes) days14:57
jeremiah_lcuk: Gonna port liq to vala now?14:58
lcukxnt14, i did some more adjustments last night to the desktop selector thing, and its lookin nice now:  http://liqbase.net/liq.20090624_014459.lib.scr.png14:58
lcukno jeremiah_14:58
RST38hc++ is as heavy as you are willing to make it14:59
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lcukbut bindings to the lib could theoretically exist :) and as long as modules can be compiled to the .so and have the necessary entry points they can exist in the playground14:59
xnt14lcuk, awesome :) is it in the github repo?14:59
lcukyeah14:59
RST38hlcuk: Reimplementing hildon desktop? =)14:59
lcukbut it needs a LOT more work before its ready for theming15:00
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lcukRST38h, nahh hildon doesnt do what i want it to15:00
xnt14o.0, weird, mass quit, rejoin :P15:01
lcuknot really "mass"15:01
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RST38hlcuk: Yea, I figured =)15:08
RST38hxnt14: This is called "a split"15:09
RST38hHappens when connection between IRC servers breaks down15:09
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xnt14RST38H, ok thanks :)15:09
jeremiah_pvanhoof: Your package just got built.15:11
pvanhoofwoohoo15:11
pvanhoofit did?!15:11
jeremiah_:)15:11
pvanhoofwoah!! it did it did!15:11
pvanhoofparty!15:11
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jeremiah_queued for loading into extras-devel15:12
X-FadeIt is actually still building?15:12
X-FadeOr at least the last version?15:12
pvanhoofjeremiah_, is that all i should do? it'll get into the repo automatically now?15:12
RST38hdid what?15:12
jeremiah_I thikn he submitted another with a different name.15:12
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pvanhoofyes15:12
pvanhoofthere's going to be another with the ~maemo1 thing15:13
jeremiah_pvanhoof: Yeah, it gets moved into the repo now. You don't need to do anything15:13
pvanhoofAnd with vala as builddep15:13
pvanhoofPerhaps remove the ~unreleased then15:13
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pvanhoofnot sure if it'll auto overwrites15:13
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zetheroowhat path would i use to browse the network via the terminal?15:14
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jeremiah_pvanhoof: No - they will be two different packages.15:15
jeremiah_But you will have to have vala as a depends if you need it at runtime.15:15
jeremiah_So the older package should not work (if it depends on vala and you did not specificy that.)15:15
pvanhoofjeremiah_, at runtime it doesn't depend on vala15:16
pvanhoofonly buildtime15:16
jeremiah_okay15:16
jeremiah_So it is a build-depends?15:16
pvanhoofbut it got built just fine, without the dep15:16
pvanhoofyes15:16
pvanhoofbut that's because I included the generated .c and .h files15:16
jeremiah_Ah!15:16
jeremiah_I was about to say that should fail15:17
jeremiah_But now I understand. :)15:17
pvanhoofvala is special :)15:17
pvanhoofit generates c code :)15:17
pvanhoofso it's not a strict dependency15:17
jeremiah_okay, interesting.15:17
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pvanhoofjeremiah_, so perhaps we should remove the ~unreleased package? How do we do that?15:18
jeremiah_Well, we'll have to contact the guy who works on the maemo repos to remove it . . .15:18
X-Fadepvanhoof: It should automatically be cleaned up.15:18
jeremiah_Oh - that's me!15:18
jeremiah_Except X-Fade is all over it.15:18
X-Fade.... when jeremiah adds that feature ;)15:18
pvanhoofok :)15:18
pvanhoofI'll leave it up to you guys then :)15:19
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* jeremiah_ goes to garage.m.o15:19
pvanhoofbut if you somehow see two packages in OK state, one ~unreleased and one using the naming jeremiah_ asked for, just remove the ~unreleased, that's fine15:19
pvanhoofjeremiah_, X-Fade, Urho (proj manager for Tracker and the album-art related stuff) is asked what category we should use here. user/multimedia is what I used btw15:20
pvanhoofHe's wondering about a category 'plugins' as this is actually a sample plugin that uses google-images for getting albumart15:21
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pvanhoofoh, he's here, now he can ask himself ;)15:21
pvanhoofI was just asking konttori_ :)15:21
jeremiah_pvanhoof: Well, I think user/multimedia is pretty good - what does X-Fade think?15:22
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pvanhoofit's ok for me btw, no strong opinion myself15:22
konttori_me neither.15:22
konttori_just wondering.15:22
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jeremiah_There is going to be a stricter interpretation of the user/ stuff in the future since it is a little like the wild west right now15:24
jeremiah_but I think user/multimedia (note case) works15:24
jeremiah_Certainly better than use/Pork_Product15:24
JaffaAnd definitely not "plugins" (see sharing plugins thread on maemo-developers)15:26
Stskeepsplugins might make sense, but not sharing plugins :P15:26
Stskeeps(imho, but im not in that discussion..)15:26
JaffaStskeeps: "plugins" *might* make sense; except I strongly believe that it actually doesn't ;-)15:27
Stskeepsafter seeing pidgin X,Y,Z i might agree :P15:27
JaffaAn example was a Flickr posting plugin for something. Why should the internal architecture of a plugin mean that the user sees it in one place; a Flickr home applet in another; a Flickr posting application in another etc. etc.15:27
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JaffaInternal design decisions don't make good user-facing taxonomies ;)15:28
GAN8001X-Fade, ping?15:29
X-FadeGAN8001: pong15:29
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* RST38h likes Pidgin.15:29
RST38hPidgin works.15:30
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wazdRST38h: http://s60.radikal.ru/i167/0906/6f/758dda8451ad.jpg <- no borders variation15:38
RST38hwazd: Yep, although why not keep the tabs?15:38
Jaffawazd: the "Bluetooth" looks like it's a heading for the third column, rather than a tab.15:38
RST38hTabs should still be there, IMHO15:39
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to beat Ryan Paul over the head again about trimming the maemo.org logo.15:39
GeneralAntilleshttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/06/new-intelnokia-partnership-a-huge-win-for-mobile-linux.ars15:39
pupnikhmmm15:39
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, I nominate you, since I didn't get a response on the last one. ;)15:40
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Somebody should kick peter@maemo to come up with a Maemo branding..15:40
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, see my maemo.org splash screen package?15:41
GeneralAntillesThat's apparently it15:41
pupnikhilighting text in browser is frustrating15:41
jeremiah_wazd: Looks really nice.15:41
GeneralAntillesMaemo in a Nokia font.15:41
pupnikThe strategic relationship consists of plans to develop new Intel chips that will power the devices and collaboration to boost Linux-based mobile software solutions. Intel has also licensed Nokia's 3G modem patents so that chip maker can expand its connectivity offerings.15:41
pupniknooo15:41
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Needs a screenshot: I saw the package :)15:42
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, we'll probably see once m.n.o launches15:42
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'll drop him a line15:42
GAN800Jaffa, downloads has screenshots.15:42
JaffaGAN800: I was using h-a-m :(15:42
JaffaOh for h-a-m to be a wonderful gateway.15:43
GAN800Hehe15:43
X-FadeHow about we talk about the categories switch over.15:43
X-FadeShall we finally just set a date and announce that from then on this is it?15:43
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jeremiah_Yes!15:45
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X-FadeObviously the guys at Nokia have no time to care about this subject, so let us take over on that one?15:45
GAN800We dead in the water waiting on Nokia for the community upgrade path.15:45
jeremiah_X-Fade: Let's set a date, then switch, plug our ears for a week, then life will be better. =)15:46
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StskeepsGAN800: i think the path is already there but noone's implementing it15:46
JaffaGAN800: Fancy resurrecting the thread about it and asking Quim directly if Nokia would ship an SSU enabling us to push a maemo.org repo as the same weighting as Nokia's?15:47
jeremiah_Moblin uses RPM, maemo uses debs - moblin will have to switch.15:47
Stskeepsnonono..15:47
Stskeeps:P15:47
Stskeepsjeremiah_: it's not cooperation on that level15:48
JaffaStskeeps: With it being opt-in only, it feels like the effort may not be worth it for the 6 of us who'd bother.15:48
X-FadeJaffa: We already talked about that.15:48
jeremiah_Pah15:48
X-FadeJaffa: You should have come to the meeting ;)15:48
JaffaWhich meeting? Copenhagen?15:48
JaffaI look forward to you pointing me to the minutes at a URL.15:48
X-FadeJaffa: Basically Nokia has no time to do that now. But after Fremantle release they will help us to take over.15:49
RST38hGentlemen, nobody is talking about merging Moblin and Maemo15:49
X-FadeTake over caring for diablo that is.15:49
RST38hAnd this is the official line.15:49
Stskeepsjeremiah_: but not having a wide range of APIs different is a good thing15:49
wazdRST38h: http://i080.radikal.ru/0906/24/63e1267f28d5.jpg <- you think this is better?15:50
jeremiah_Still, they're gonna have to switch for me to even use it.15:50
jeremiah_wazd: It makes more sense as a grid, yeah.15:50
RST38hwazd: I would use thin recessed line separating the tabs15:50
RST38hjeremiah; To use Moblin, you mean?15:50
jeremiah_Can the bottom separator be white instead of black?15:50
jeremiah_RST38h: Indeed.15:51
Stskeepsjeremiah_: i think you may be misunderstanding the statement a bit15:51
Stskeepsthey're not merging moblin and maemo15:51
jeremiah_I don't think so.15:51
jeremiah_I know that. :)15:51
Stskeepsthey're merging stuff like ofono, connman etc efforts15:51
RST38hjeremiah: Even as a user?15:51
RST38hThey are not "merging" oFono15:51
Stskeepswell ,ok15:51
Stskeepsbad example15:51
RST38hBasically, they are codeveloping oFono15:51
lcuknokia and intel up a tree, what were they doing k.i.s.s.i.n.g :D15:51
jeremiah_RST38h: Of course as a user, that is where aptitude shines.15:52
RST38hMoblin vs Maemo is more or less like FreeBSD vs NetBSD15:52
X-FadeThey will basically work together in some open source projects.15:52
RST38hSeparate but with a lot of cross pollination15:52
jeremiah_Yeah, and NetBSD sucks. ;P15:52
X-FadeWhich they seem to do already ;)15:52
lcukits like a jackrussel humping a dalmation15:52
RST38hjeremiah: Not when you have got a non-x86 hardware15:52
jeremiah_sexy15:52
X-FadeSo, not that big new as people who follow the source trees already knew that ;)15:52
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jeremiah_I am just joking - I don't mean any of this seriously. I don't care what packaging system moblin uses, its just that dependency resolving is better with aptitude than yum.15:53
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b-man16~seen xnt1415:53
infobotxnt14 is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 44m 8s, last said: 'RST38H, ok thanks :)'.15:53
jeremiah_X-Fade: Exactly - this announcement is sort of a non-announcement.15:53
X-Fadejeremiah_: Not for investors ;)15:54
jeremiah_True dat.15:54
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jeremiah_And not for Microsoft . . . Bwaah ha ha!15:54
* RST38h can't comment15:54
crashanddiewhich announcement?15:54
RST38hRather than give whatever official answers we have been given15:54
jeremiah_crashanddie: Intel is being bought by Apple.15:55
crashanddieoh15:55
RST38hAnd this is 1) No merge of Maemo and Moblin and 2) Intel does not comment on Nokia's future hardware lineup, ask Nokia15:55
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crashanddiejeremiah_: hang on, what?15:55
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jeremiah_crashanddie: I'm just joking15:56
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jeremiah_We're talking about the Intel - Nokia co-operation around mobile linux.15:56
jeremiah_I think there is a link to an Ars Technica article about it in the backlog15:56
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crashanddieoh that, old news15:57
wazdhttp://s44.radikal.ru/i103/0906/2a/c29a7582e3fb.jpg <- better?)15:57
crashanddiejeremiah_: it's not going to change a huge load15:58
crashanddiejeremiah_: at least, not for anyone in this channel15:58
RST38hwazd: yea!15:58
RST38hjeremiah: Switch from Debian to Redhat was kind of surprising though15:58
RST38hGiven how much messier Redhat is15:59
jeremiah_wazd: Can the bottom separator be white instead of black?15:59
wazdjeremiah_: no it can't! die!1 xD15:59
jeremiah_RST38h: Yeah, I agree. Red Hat is also a commercial company so you are giving away business when you use them15:59
crashanddiegiving away business?16:00
wazdjeremiah_: it's incorrect separator anyway, since we already have a nice style for them (see on the top bar16:00
jeremiah_Well, Red Hat makes $ from support of Red Hat Linux, so if you create yet another Red Hat Linux distro, they can support it.16:00
jeremiah_wazd: Ah, okay.16:00
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crashanddiejeremiah_: no they don't16:01
jeremiah_eh?16:01
jeremiah_They certainly do.16:01
crashanddiejeremiah_: try to call red hat support with a centos problem and they'll tell you to f right off ;)16:01
crashanddiejeremiah_: that is, unless you buy T&M at a vastly overpriced rate16:01
jeremiah_True - but if you buy a support contract they will most certainly help you. :P16:02
crashanddienha, support contracts are only valid for Red Hat software16:02
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jeremiah_Which Centos can easily be changed to . . .16:02
jeremiah_Since it is bit for bit the same16:02
crashanddiejeremiah_: plus, you're not actually giving away business, you're allowing users to have professional support, even more so: you're allowing businesses to have a fault line16:03
jeremiah_meh16:03
jeremiah_There is plenty of commercial support for debian based distros16:03
crashanddielmao16:03
crashanddieright16:03
jeremiah_Canonical for example16:03
crashanddieCanonical is a joke16:03
jeremiah_Oh really?16:04
jeremiah_Hmm, most popular linux distro == joke.16:04
jeremiah_okay16:04
crashanddiefind me one single fortune 500 company that uses Canonical as their primary support provider16:04
crashanddiethought so...16:05
pupnikcompanies are locked into wintel16:05
jeremiah_meh - that is no measure.16:05
crashanddieof course not16:05
jeremiah_Plus, Canonical does have some pretty high profile customers.16:05
crashanddiepupnik: you think that oracle runs on windows?16:05
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pupnikfind me one single fortune 500 company that runs linux on desktops16:06
crashanddiepupnik: you really believe people run an oracle cluster on wintel? That's pure Solaris, thank you very much16:06
pupnikyou said PRIMARY support provider...16:06
crashanddie?16:06
crashanddieServer-side, obviously16:06
pupnikwere you talking abo... ah16:06
crashanddiesorry I didn't clarify that16:07
pupniknm then16:07
Jaffapupnik: IBM runs a large %ge of its users on Linux desktops16:07
jeremiah_Yeah - and I think those are Ubuntu boxen16:08
jeremiah_Or some kind of IBM hybrid16:08
jeremiah_Google uses tons of Ubuntu internally16:08
pupnikcool!16:09
Jaffajeremiah_: Yeah, it used to be based on Red Hat when I was there, but I believe it's now Ubuntu-based.16:09
pupniki just am damaged by decades of wintel16:09
jeremiah_Gubuntu. :)16:10
lcuki think corpos  should  base entire  linux stack on gentoo. from the interns up16:10
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jeremiah_Which I guess became Android16:10
lcukand they have to build own  machine to do stuff16:10
jeremiah_lcuk: I think you should get off the crack pipe.16:10
* lcuk would be out of a job, but it would be good for a laff16:10
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crashanddieand most mozilla employees use macs16:14
crashanddieactually,  even in my company most devs are starting to jump to macs16:14
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jeremiah_hackingcrashanddie: That won't last. Linux runs 30% faster on the same hardware.16:18
crashanddiejeremiah_hacking: lol... right16:18
RST38hlcuk: Why Gentoo? They should use Slackware!16:18
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crashanddiegotta love the fanbois16:18
crashanddieRST38h: slackware is so 90s, the future is arch!16:19
RST38h[side remark] And these people for YEARS bitched about BSD "not having a single distribution"16:19
RazumihinWhat kind of developer likes to use macs...16:19
lcuksomeone who develops apple products..16:20
Razumihinlcuk: I don't think that even they _like_ using them...16:20
lcukno, but to switch over its a tortuous journey whichever direction you look16:20
crashanddiesomeone who needs a laptop and needs to run 4 or 5 VMs at a time whilst on-site16:20
RazumihinConsole tools for mac suck a big time.16:20
lcukso find a comfortable spot that gives effect you need and hold on tight :)16:21
Razumihin:)16:21
lcukconsole tools are *bsd arent they?16:21
RazumihinYes. But pretty handicappedƶ16:21
jeremiah_hackingIt is a mix of BSD and Apple16:21
crashanddieand can actually use his laptop for 4-7 hours full use without recharging the battery16:21
lcukjust like busybox stuff on nits then16:21
jeremiah_hackingHow often does the iTunes OS crash?16:21
Razumihincrashanddie: My thinkpad runs +12h on battery with linux ;)16:22
crashanddieRazumihin: how big is the screen? How heavy is it?16:22
RazumihinAnd it has touchscreen!16:22
Razumihin"wow"16:22
RazumihinSorry bad troll :)16:22
lcuki would rather let people  of alternative computing faith work as they see fit, please dont turn into a flame war :)16:22
* RST38h cringes at the mention of Thinkpads16:22
jeremiah_hackingThinkpads are pretty great. Well made hardware.16:23
RST38hjeremiah: pile of shit, at least recent ones16:23
Razumihinlcuk: Yeah... i'm just agitated by the previous code i had to read today :)16:23
RST38hthe ones made under IBM supervision were at least sturdy and well made16:23
pupnikRST38h, what got worse?16:23
pupnikah ok16:23
jeremiah_hackingRST38h: That is Lenovo16:23
lcukRazumihin, i read visual basic code all day every day..16:23
lcukapple must be heaven :)16:24
RST38hjeremiah: well, it says "ThinkPad" on the body16:24
pupnikt42p still has nice build quality16:24
jeremiah_hackingTrue dat16:24
Razumihinlcuk: But your comments are not in translit russian?16:24
RST38hpupnik: well, the design side was always bad16:24
RazumihinThat was one of the best moment's of my coding life :D16:24
Razumihin"wait what!"16:24
RST38hpupnik: heavy, ugly, lots of holes everywhere, washed out displays16:24
pupnikname a better laptop pls RST38h16:25
lcukRazumihin, no, i have something called "stuart code" to contend with,   stuart was an old school fortran hacker and did not want to waste precious space giving variables names16:25
RST38hpupnik: under Lenovo's control, plastic turned way worse16:25
pupniktrue16:25
lcukso every frikkin thing is an anonymous array :)16:25
Razumihin:)16:25
RST38hpupnik: the body now creaks when you press on it16:25
RazumihinNice.16:25
pupnikok, then i wouldnt buy a new thinkpad16:25
RST38hpupnik: it looks bent at several spots, the battery went dead in 3 months16:26
* lcuk goes 16:26
RazumihinNew thinkpads are still one of the best, but yes the quality has declined.16:26
lcuk\o16:26
pupnikcheers lcuk16:26
X-FadeRST38h: Well they saved about $1 with that plastic. Makes sense ;)16:26
RST38hpupnik: the so called "bundled software" became completely non functional, it blue-screens Windows every time I dock it16:26
pupnikwhat model thinkpad RST38h ?16:27
RST38hpupnik; T6116:27
pupnikyes that is no longer a design from ibm japan16:27
RST38hX-Fade: Looks like they saved loads of money on design and manufacturing management16:27
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pupniki hate how capitalists take an old good brand, then start producing shit under the same name16:28
pupniklike mercedes in the 90's16:28
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pupnikvery shortsighted16:28
Stskeepsyes, like that paper company ;)16:29
xnt14[work]b-man16, ping! :P16:30
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RST38hpupnik: nothing to hate, natural thing16:36
RST38hthe best thing you can do is to stop buying crap and tell all your friends to stop buying the same crap16:37
pupnikas a consumer who likes certain brands, i think i can hate that - but yes it is a natural, if shortsighted, move16:37
pupnikmercedes discovered that16:37
pupnikand is clawing their way back to restoring their qzakity and reputation16:38
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RST38hWorks like a charm in tightly knit societies16:39
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RST38hMore news: http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/atom-based-nokia-netbook-reportedly-on-track-for-q3/16:57
X-FadeRST38h: More 'news' :)16:57
RST38hX-Fade: well, it is Engadget, you know, but on the other side they quote OEMs16:59
RST38hSo who knows...16:59
X-FadeSupposedly, reportedly.16:59
lcukbest have touchscreen :)17:00
lcukand wallmounts17:00
RST38hlcuk: will most likely look exactly the same as dozens of other netbooks17:02
RST38h+ Nokia logo on the cover and 3G.17:02
pupnikx86 is a plague upon mankind17:03
lcukmee too?17:03
pupnik..17:03
lcuk@ rst lol17:03
bergieif they made anything like a modernized Psion Netbook, I'd be really happy17:04
bergiethat ran Epoc32, the predecessor of Symbian17:04
lcukhardware wise its like kid in candy shop at the moment17:04
bergiethough obviously Maemo would be more fun :-)17:04
RST38hlcuk: yep17:05
pupniki loved the netbook + epoc17:05
RST38hlcuk: so many different platforms =)17:05
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RST38hpupnik: well you can still run Symbian on an netbook :)17:05
bergiethough I wonder how well maemo UI works on other resolutions17:05
lcukyeah, but desktop doesnt interest me :)17:05
lcukeven laptop desktop doesnt17:06
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lcukbergie, get vnc from a maemo tablet and put it on a desktop and find out17:07
lcukthe asus eee top is a nice touchscreen desktop to try on ;)17:07
lcukliqbase looks wicked on my 12" screen17:07
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Jaffabergie/pupnik: hear hear. ARM'd be nice for battery life tho'17:08
X-FadeI think the Maemo5 ui will scale better.17:08
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X-FadeAs there is only this top bar.17:08
bergieJaffa: yeah... IIRC netbook gave something like 6h of working time17:08
Jaffabergie: Target was 8: a "full working day"17:09
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bergieanyway, the form factor, "instant on" and keyboard of the original netbook rocked17:09
pupnikyes17:10
lcukX-Fade, yeah but on a big touchscreen having to reach all the way to the top all the time would double gorilla arm!17:10
pupniki have spare netbook parts if anyone is a real fan17:10
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liqbase_big.JPG17:10
pupnikhmm maemo browser refuses to show jpgs17:11
pupnikonly for me?17:12
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lcukdunno  im not on tablet17:12
RST38hpupnik: I think it is not configured to show images (rather than html documents with inlined images)17:13
RST38hOh wait!17:13
pupnik..17:13
RST38hpupnik: turn image loading ON in the menu, then reaload your jpeg17:13
pupnikah ty17:13
lcukbbiab17:13
GAN800x86 Nokia netbook will be such a sad 'Me too!'17:13
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RST38hGAN: There is also information of a snapdragon based one17:14
pupnikwonder when i disabled that - hehe ty RST38h17:14
RST38hGAN: Already wondering what OS it will run? ;)17:15
GAN800I don't understand why the would go Qualcomm (spit!) over TI17:15
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GAN800Especially if Linux is involved.17:15
RST38hpupnik: This is actually a bug and I may locate a tracker for it17:15
RST38hGAN: Don't be such a purist, really17:15
GAN800blah blah blah17:15
RST38hGAN: You wanted ARM? Qualcomm is ARM. Not that bad SoC, too17:16
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RST38hpupnik: Hmm, no bug. I will file one.17:17
pupnikcool17:17
pupniki am tempted to get smartq 7" for visitors17:18
pupnikbut i have too few visitors17:18
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RST38hpupnik: same here17:20
RST38h(on smartq)17:20
RST38hpupnik, GAN, lcuk: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=473517:20
RST38h(it will probably never be fixed but let us atleast show some effort in finding these things :()17:21
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sneakretlcuk: flash photo of a laptop screen? :)17:27
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sneakretwhy not a screen capture?17:27
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lcuksneakret, a screencapture would look the same no matter what hardware its on17:30
lcuk:)17:30
aquatixlcuk: ha17:31
oespirit~seen florian17:31
infobotflorian <n=fuchs@95.89.44.245> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 18h 12m 47s ago, saying: 'hi prpplague'.17:31
lcuksneakret, reasonable recent screencapture :P http://liqbase.net/liq.20090526_031404.lib.scr.png17:32
sneakretI thought the point was the resolution.17:32
lcuksize :)17:33
lcukupscaling from handheld to desktop and beyond is nice17:33
sneakretgotcha17:33
RazumihinNice chaos :) But the demo video was really promising.17:33
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.20090420_202604.lib.holymoly.png17:34
lcukRazumihin, :) order will come soon, like an overgrown garden you chop back and prune the bushes17:34
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lcukbut i have had to test all different aspects of the library17:34
lcukand make sure it can do what i need it to17:34
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RazumihinYes, i know :)17:35
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wazdhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3phGHpMwDg <- thats cool17:40
pupnikmore info pls17:41
wazdHTC Hero UI overview17:41
pupnikty17:42
aquatixHero is damn nice17:43
aquatixwith that Sense UI17:44
* aquatix found his next phone17:44
aquatixor the n900 should blow it out of the water17:44
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wazdI doubt that it works that smooth on a real device but its cool anyway)17:44
pupnikwill n900 still use hildon?17:46
Stskeepsyes17:47
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k-skeesj: are you the Kess on qgil announcement?17:51
k-skeesj: running summit in amsterdam17:52
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lbtnice video... nothing new though I saw : music, web, weather, phone, SMS/IM/Twitter, email, clock, photos, maps, shares... and eye-candy17:57
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pupnikwhen is amsterdam?17:58
Stskeepsvery beginning of october i think17:59
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VDVsxpupnik, 9-1118:00
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pupnikk18:01
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Stskeepsopencv is kinda neat, http://blip.tv/file/227992018:03
Jaffak-s: keesj is the council member who was involved in the location selection18:05
VDVsxStskeeps, yeah is very cool, I worked with opencv in one of my university projects :P18:06
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VDVsxStskeeps, and there are python bindings, in case you didn't noticed yet :)18:07
StskeepsVDVsx: yeah i noticed18:08
VDVsx:)18:08
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AchipAluck: no obligations q - I'm curious if you're planning on pushing pyqt 4.5 into extras-devel in the near future ?18:21
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crashanddieAchipA: why on earth would lcuk want to do that?18:26
AchipAcrashanddie: errr, luck... not lcuk18:27
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crashanddieoh now you're just confusing people on purpose with your nicknames :(18:27
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qwerty12_N810X-Fade: huzzah, it got built without doing anything awry to your autobuilder. :) Thanks for the help!18:29
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AchipAcrashanddie: luck = lucianomw = last pyqt on maemo packager known to me, but I might be mistaken, (C) crisis18:30
lcuk<<<< not luck18:31
lcukAchipA, hope you get it sorted18:31
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lcukthere should be growing support for qt though18:31
aquatixlcuk.compareTo(luck) == false18:31
lcuknot dwindling18:31
AchipAraise KeyError('oops')18:31
AchipA~seen lucianomw18:32
infoboti haven't seen 'lucianomw', AchipA18:32
AchipAhunting ghosts :)18:32
crashanddieError: No overload defined for lcuk member function compareTo(luck), closest match is compareTo(String str)18:33
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AchipAlcuk: thx18:33
lcukAchipA, gnuton and lbt are heavily involved with native qt, perhaps they will know of more in the pipeline18:34
AchipAlcuk: well, supposedly we'll have 'full' community support in Fremantle, let's see what that amounts to :)18:34
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AchipAlcuk: not really related to native qt, just that pyqt got a new major release a few weeks back and was wondering about the availability of the goodies...18:35
lcukit means every member of the community will have a nokia branded (if the news is true) dev env sent out :P18:35
AchipA:D18:35
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lcuksince they are tied to qt itself i would imagine they would know more than regular joes :)18:35
* lcuk wonders how difficult pyliq bindings would be18:36
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AchipAlcuk: will ask, but not necessarily, it's an automated process, i.e. it will generate the bindings to (almost :) whatever qt is in the repo18:37
AchipAlcuk: pyliq qould be easy, doing straight c-to-python bindings is trouble at all18:38
AchipAlcuk: unless you do some black magic pointer/struct work, that is :)18:38
lcuknot really black magic opaquepointers18:39
lcukbut it does use pointers extensively18:39
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AchipAlcuk: if you're interested, take a look at http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html18:39
AchipAlcuk: if you can fit here, you don't need to do bindings at all, it would Just Work (TM)18:40
lcukcool, ill put it in my (very long) stack18:40
lcuko_O that easy?18:42
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AchipAlcuk: It might look scary at first, but it really isn't18:44
lcuknot scary at all, just pondering how to convert .py source file  into .so module for use in the playground ;)18:47
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lcukeither that or just what in an interpreter cell and have it load in its .py source18:48
AchipAlcuk: aah, misunderstanding. when you said pyliq I though you want to call liqbase stuff FROM python18:48
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lcuki do, but the playground (where multiple elements exist) loads in multiple modules from different apps18:49
n6pfkWhere can I purcase a replacement battery for the N810 for a decent price?18:49
AchipAlcuk: ah. That would require a little mucking with python-dev18:50
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AchipAlcuk: replace link above with http://www.python.org/doc/2.5.2/ext/callingPython.html18:53
lcukinteresting to know  both :) thanks,gotta run \o18:53
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xnt14[work]~seen b-man1618:54
infobotb-man16 <n=b-man@cpe-98-30-195-117.woh.res.rr.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 48s ago, saying: '~seen xnt14'.18:54
xnt14[work]:P18:54
Stskeepsyou people need eachothers phonenumbers or something18:55
Stskeeps:P18:55
Stskeepsor calendar18:55
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oespirit~seen florian19:04
infobotflorian <n=fuchs@95.89.44.245> was last seen on IRC in channel #edev, 19h 45m 37s ago, saying: 'hi prpplague'.19:04
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StskeepsKiller app for N900: http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9703/image001rbr.jpg19:08
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aquatixStskeeps: ha19:11
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lcukStskeeps, when i clicked on the link in the comic, it returned this page: http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=1731319:15
VDVsxStskeeps, nah, a port of Wobble will have more success :P19:15
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RST38hSts: actually, excellent online service idea!19:16
lcukVDVsx, what is "wobble"   google image search shows breasts as result 1 (which is principle wobblying thing i suppose)19:17
lcukbut doesnt help19:17
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VDVsxlcuk, lol, wobble for iphone in youtube19:17
VDVsx;)19:17
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lcukdoes  nobody have a one line answer :P19:18
lcukahhhh - it IS about boobie wobbling19:19
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RST38hlcuk: but wasn't that obvious? =)19:20
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VDVsxlcuk, cool app, anh ? lololol19:20
lcukno lol19:20
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lcukin my innocence i thought it would be wobble jelly :$19:20
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VDVsxfor the record, this app was banned by apple :)19:22
lcukwonder why19:22
* lcuk makes liqwobble, or is that wobbleliq 19:22
VDVsxyou can shake any picture, no reason for the ban :)19:23
VDVsxor any part of the picture19:24
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lcuk:D u could do the ruffle truffle thing from goonies19:26
GAN800lcuk, I'm sad I didn't take a picture last night to match yours.19:28
lcukto match my what?19:28
lcukdamn, bbiab, ill have to find out then19:29
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GAN800lcuk, tried to cut my finger off last night.19:32
GAN800lcuk, post-mortem is on my photostream on Flickr.19:32
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lbtgoddam .... it's catching19:34
Stskeeps"tablet usage: makes you want to maim your fingers!"19:34
practisevoodoo_have google changed their map url formats again?19:35
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ShadowJKN8x0 needs a proximity sensor19:36
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ShadowJKI fell asleep browsing web in bed and my face ended up resting on the touchscreen, keeping it on until battery ran out :(19:37
RST38hhorror19:37
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RST38hBy the way...19:51
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RST38hhttp://www.crunchgear.com/2009/06/23/gamebone-iphone-gamepad-cooler-than-it-sounds-doubles-as-battery-extender/19:55
wazd_n800Damn, looks like my A2DP is broken (19:55
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RST38hAnyone thinking that it will work really well with tablets? =)19:56
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wazd_n800mplayer just hangs when it tries to play something with A2DP19:56
RST38hreboot?19:56
wazd_n800RST38h, well, it worked like a charm for very long time. Reboot doesn't help(19:57
qwerty12_N810I remove pairing and, then, re-pair19:58
wazd_n800qwerty12_N810, didn't help either19:58
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qwerty12_N810Damn :/19:59
wazd_n800qwerty12_N810, btw, looks like you have an upgrade?)19:59
qwerty12_N810wazd_n800: hehe, donation from Mer team :)19:59
wazd_n800qwerty12_N810, oh, awesome!)20:00
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Stskeepswe got 2 n810s from nokia and we decided at a breakfast table that qwerty12 (even when not being in the team at the time) deserved the second one for all the work he's pulled through using the bloody on screen keyboard for the project20:00
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Stskeepsand many other contributions :P20:01
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RST38hqwerty also lost a finger? =)20:01
Stskeepsnot yet20:01
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wazd_n800looks like its time for global reflashing20:03
wazd_n800With 2 multiboot OS'eson SD card, just like big daddies have)20:05
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GAN800andre___, lol20:14
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GAN800andre___, subtler styling is good. ;)20:14
GAN800andre__,  Niels fixed the body text issue, main and main-wrapper need to be in the contents div, not parents of it.20:15
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andre___ah20:17
andre___wanna sent me a diff? :-)20:17
andre___but i'm only here for another 15min, maybe in 5hrs again, don't know yet20:18
andre___GAN800, ^20:18
GAN800At work, at lunch. It only requires moving the content div up a few lines, though.20:18
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andre___okay20:19
andre___not urgent20:19
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lcukGAN800, link20:23
lcukso how was the rest of your visit to nokia lol20:24
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GAN800lcuk, generalantilles on flickr20:24
GAN800too lazy to grab a real link20:24
lcukhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/3656748051/20:24
lcukmy god20:24
lcukhow bad20:24
lcukand that metal cage looks v familiar lol20:25
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lcukGAN800, how deep, did it need reattachment or is it a cut that needs protection20:28
GAN800lcuk, about to bone, didn't get stitches though20:28
GAN800Bought the splint at a drug store. ;)20:29
GAN800Nowhere near as awesome as yours, but I hit the artery so it bled like crazy.20:29
lcukyeah they can do20:29
GAN800Had just the bandadge on it initially20:30
lcuksurprisingly with me there wasnt much blood after the first splurt20:30
lcuki gather its near middle of the bandage area20:30
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GAN800But broke it open a few hours later and turned myself into a murder scene on all of about 5 seconds.20:30
GAN800Right on the inside of the joint.20:30
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lcukyouch, i can see why you want the splint20:30
GAN800Need to keep it immobilized for any chance of it closing on its own.20:31
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lcuknahh ducttape20:31
lcukwouldv done job ;)20:31
GAN800ehehe20:31
GAN800Thought about it, didn't have any.20:32
lcukheh, yeah has to be the silver stuff tho20:32
GAN800Had to send my sister out for bandages then the splint.20:32
lcukthe other colors leak20:32
lcukwhat next? sling?20:32
lcukwheelchair?20:32
GAN800Handicap tags20:32
lcukheh20:32
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lcukits horrid when you get broken20:33
GAN800Had to drive my mothers car this morning since I couldn't manage the stick on mine. :D20:33
lcukyou expect to do stuff and just cant20:33
GAN800Never broken a bone.20:33
lcuknor had i till it happened to me20:33
lcukdislocated hip tho20:33
GAN800lol20:33
GAN800I'm probably goimg to break a hip later now. ;)20:34
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lcuknahh this was years ago20:34
lcukwoke up and tried to get out of bed20:34
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lcukwhen i looked round to find out what the problem was, my foot was pointing the wrong way20:35
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Macerhi20:44
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SpCombhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29213 <-- seems indeed that I'm not alone with my reboots20:54
SpCombsymptoms fit mine exactly20:54
Luke-JrSpComb: hopefully I'll finish reversing BME soon and someone can write a sane charger20:54
StskeepsSpComb: what charger?20:54
woglindehi20:54
Stskeepsmodel, that is20:55
SpCombthe standard Nokia charger that came with the N810 or the 6120 Classic20:55
SpCombAC-4E20:55
udovdhbattery issue?20:56
SpCombperhaps20:56
udovdhthen change the monitoring...20:56
udovdhpfff.20:56
udovdhor does it imply the power really cuts out?20:56
Luke-Jrcan't change anything with current blob BME...20:56
lopzhi20:57
SpCombthe bsme stuff puts the blame on a sw_rst by bme_RX-4420:57
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SpCombbut somehow I don't think it's just a pure battery issue20:59
SpCombanother wierdness that I've noticed is that the entire system stutters really badly for a while after rebooting21:00
slonopotamussane charger...21:01
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SpCombby charger do you mean some software/firmware component?21:01
slonopotamussounds scary :)21:02
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slonopotamusSpComb, sw21:02
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ShadowJKstuttering after reboot might be jffs2 garbage collection21:07
ShadowJKdo any of you people experiencing this have volt meters?21:08
ShadowJKdigital multimeters etc21:08
Luke-JrSpComb: bme_RX-44 is the battery charger21:08
RST38hstuttering after reboot may be that metalayer-crawler21:09
ShadowJKhm, I've seen bme die a few times.. without RD mode dsme would at that point reboot, I think21:09
Luke-JrShadowJK: with or without I'd hope21:09
keesjk-s: indeed21:09
ShadowJKLuke-Jr, without it doesn't... atleast I've managed to kill bme and not have the device reboot21:10
k-skeesj: hope to see you there!21:10
ShadowJK(accidentally, bme is kinda buggy)21:10
Luke-Jrit's funny how Nokia asked the community at some point what the #1 most important thing to open source was21:11
keesjI hope I can make it up for thet last time :p21:11
ShadowJKLuke-Jr, what was the answer? :-)21:11
Luke-Jrwe said BME/DSME21:11
Luke-Jrso Nokia stripped all the useful stuff out of DSME and opened that21:11
ShadowJKha21:11
Stskeepsnah21:12
Stskeepsdsme has practically been unchanged for a long time21:12
Stskeepslook at the svn tree21:12
Stskeepsthe fun part is that most of the stuff was in modules :>21:12
ShadowJKOne thing I wonder about these battery charging reboot loops... do people ever experience them with a running tablet? i.e. one that doesn't have empty battery, one that is running just fine as is, but reboots if charger is connected?21:13
Luke-Jreither way, what they opened was useless21:13
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Luke-JrShadowJK: uh, yeah, did you read the thread?21:13
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Luke-Jrnobody there had an empty battery21:13
lcukisnt it a case of be careful what you wish for - it might just come true21:13
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Luke-Jrlcuk: if Nokia released BME code, it'd be useful21:14
lcukto who?21:14
slonopotamusto tablet users21:14
Luke-Jrproduct owners21:14
ShadowJKI've had the tablet spontaneously reboot when I've messed around with nonstandard chargers.. I dont think that went through the blink-blue-led-on-reboot stage though, it just insta-rebooted21:14
lcukwhat would i use it for21:14
lcukhow would it make my tablet experience better?21:14
Stskeepslcuk: killing people with tablet bombs21:14
Stskeeps!21:14
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ShadowJK:)21:15
Stskeepsnoone suspects a nokia!21:15
lcukwhat i have wanted for a long time is access to hardware that was not used at all21:15
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lcuki dont care how it comes21:15
lcukand quims posting today made me smile from ear to ear :)21:15
lcukTHAT is something that can give a direct benefit to the users21:15
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qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: Nokia have a fair reason for not open sourcing that one. Not to say I don't support your efforts in reversing it, also21:15
slonopotamuslcuk, it's impossible to make a thing that is useful for everyone. so _some_ of product owners would benefit21:16
Luke-Jrqwerty12_N810: no they don't21:16
ShadowJKThe docs i've managed to find unfortunately seem to hint that battery safety cutoffs are in software... so if you modified bme to not kill power when the battery voltage dips below safe, and run the battery much more emptier... you could create a ticking timebomb :>21:16
ShadowJKlcuk, what do you mean?21:16
ShadowJKnot sed?21:16
lcukslonopotamus, but im not in any hardship because bme is closed21:16
ShadowJKnot used?21:16
lcuki bought a product to do something21:16
lcukit does it21:16
lcukthats re bme^21:16
qwerty12_N810ShadowJK: powervr21:16
Luke-Jrlcuk: BME is buggy21:17
ShadowJKah21:17
lcukbut powervr drivers - well arent we all interested in games and sci progs and renderers and playing21:17
Luke-Jrlcuk: I'd be more interested in Nokia giving us the source or specs needed to make GPS work21:17
pupnikthat would be fun to see21:17
SpCombLuke-Jr: interesting21:17
StskeepsLuke-Jr: i honestly think it is because it's safe than sory21:17
Stskeepssorry21:17
lcukLuke-Jr, gps works?   its got a crap antenna and no amount of source is gonna change that i dont think, but it works21:17
qwerty12_N810Luke-Jr: the GPS sucks, I'd rather see the PowerVR21:17
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Luke-JrStskeeps: could be. but can't tell w/o code21:18
lcukcan you get a lock?21:18
lcukdoes map show where you are?21:18
Luke-Jrlcuk: no, GPS doesn't work outside of Maemo and it is also extremely buggy21:18
Luke-Jrlcuk: no21:18
lcukwhen you bought the device and turned it on did it work?21:18
ShadowJKhey does N8x0 have UL certification? I wonder how UL would treat user-modifiable bme in that case, might not have passed :)21:18
Luke-Jrwtf is UL21:19
Luke-Jrreleasing source doesn't change BME's status as user modifiable21:19
Luke-Jrwe can still modify BME21:19
ShadowJKunderwriter laboratories, a product safety laboratory thing in the US21:19
Luke-Jrlocking up the code only means we are doing it blind21:19
slonopotamusShadowJK, distribute bme source separately from tablet itself and be happy21:20
SpCombit's called obfuscation, aka. "security"21:20
Luke-JrSpComb: that's not security.21:20
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lcukyou cannot force a company to show their code, and open source is meant to try to work round roadblocks21:20
Luke-Jrit's also infringing on our rights to do what we want with what we buy21:20
lcukbollocks21:21
Luke-Jrwhen I buy something, the company should have no say whatsoever with what i do with it21:21
Luke-Jrit's mine21:21
lcukyou can do whatever you want with what you bought21:21
lcukyou just havent got the hymn sheet21:21
SpCombShadowJK: the charger reboot-loops are very consitent for me21:22
ShadowJKanyway.. if my tablet was rebooting when I connected charger I'd return it on warranty :-)21:22
SpCombI have to mute my tablet if I want to charge it, otherwise the constant bootup-tones get really annoying21:22
lcukLuke-Jr, go and ask BMW for the source for their in car system21:23
ShadowJK(after poking the terminals with a scope, of course)21:23
lcukheh ShadowJK21:23
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ShadowJKtime for work, screen off :-)21:24
fuz_hello, it seems that reboot while charging are caused by bad batteries21:24
SpCombthat seems to be the conclusion that thread came to21:24
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johnsqHi21:25
Luke-Jrfuz_: they work otherwise just fine21:26
slonopotamusjohnsq, hello21:26
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johnsqslonopotamus: shouldn't x11 applications under chroot run with the original xserver?21:27
slonopotamusjohnsq, they do run21:28
slonopotamusah21:28
slonopotamusbind-mount /tmp21:28
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johnsqI will look, I have currently 1.6 direct running.21:29
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SpCombalthough seems that while the device itself has 24 months warranty, the battery is only 6 months...21:32
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fuz_luke: bad battery work fine only for some time. I've got the reboot problem for more than 6 month (in a very intermittent way) with 2 batteries, and now they are also causing reboot when unplugged, or get instantly discharged some times21:32
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fuz_btw i'm the last poster here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=29837621:33
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SpCombdunno exactly how long I've had these issues, probably for 2-3 months, although they didn't all start at once21:40
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SpCombfuz_: do you have any opinion as to how well the warranties cover this?21:41
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fuz_spc: i really don't know. you may try to have the battery replaced if it's in warranty period21:42
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SnahtI was looking for a way to get the URL for media streams that I've saved in the default media player for OS2008 (menu > clip > details doesn't work), and per maemo.org's bug tracker, bug 1654 indicates that this is a known issue with a workaround.  My question is if I edit /home/user/.mediaplayer-engine/radiochennels.m3u and (re)start the media player, will that screw something up, or will the media player now use the new name or URL?21:43
fuz_my n810 (and batteries) are 1.5 years old, so i'm out of luck with warranty21:44
SpCombmine is slightly over a year old, so it's within the 24 month warranty for the device, but presumeably not the 6 month warranty for the battery...21:44
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fuz_anyway, i'm glad it's a problem with the battery and not with the device21:46
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GAN800Ah, Luke-Jr RantsĀ©21:47
qwerty12_N810Can I get the sermon sent to my house? =)21:47
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johnsqis there a readable fluxbox style for nit?21:49
slonopotamusjohnsq, oh my :) built flux?21:50
johnsqslonopotamus, yes its working but i need new glasses21:50
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* xnt14[work] is bored21:51
slonopotamusjohnsq, increase font size?21:52
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FireFox16~seen xnt1421:55
infobotxnt14 is currently on #maemo. Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 6h 45m 51s, last said: 'RST38H, ok thanks :)'.21:55
FireFox16:P21:55
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slonopotamus~seen zeenix21:57
infobotzeenix is currently on #maemo (15h 19m 47s), last said: 'calvaris: i wonder why you look so familiar? :P'.21:57
slonopotamuswow. useful :)21:57
slonopotamus~seen [1]ciroip21:57
infoboti haven't seen '[1]ciroip', slonopotamus21:57
slonopotamuserr21:57
slonopotamusinfobot, die21:57
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.21:57
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FireFox16lol21:59
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* lcuk wonders how it manages to get the second round out22:00
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qwerty12_N810More to the point: How does it get a gun in the first place? It's a bot and I thought there were gun-control laws *cough*...22:01
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FireFox16~burn himself22:02
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FireFox16infobot: !22:02
infobotwell, ! is what my big sibling dpkg uses instead of ~, or not, or what dpkg uses dumbass22:02
FireFox16xP22:02
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FireFox16infobot: you suck22:03
infobotand very well I might add22:03
FireFox16rofl22:03
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johnsqslonopotamus: firefox is also running, but the menus are too small22:06
slonopotamusjohnsq, how's the speed, hehe? :)22:06
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johnsqslonopotamus: fast. no problems22:07
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Stskeepsa/G 1222:25
Stskeeps..22:25
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fireunhttp://www.physorg.com/news164996028.html22:26
fireunwhy couldnt it have been IBM instead of Intel?22:26
fireunthey're at least more OSS friendly22:26
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fireunmaybe I'm beating a dead horse here, you all probably heard about this weeks ago22:27
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Proteousweeks? years!!22:28
pupniktoday22:28
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fireunProteous: so you clearly can see the future, what is gonna happen in 5 years?22:29
derfIntel (like IBM) is a large company. Different parts of it behave differently towards open source.22:29
derfSee, e.g., their graphics card division.22:29
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Proteousfireun: intel renames itself to skynet22:31
fireunoh dang22:31
Proteousetc. etc. etc22:31
Proteousthat's why all my stocks are in canned food companies22:32
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fireunProteous: thats not the only reason I'm sure22:34
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fireundont forget the companies that import malaysian tin!22:34
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ProteousMmmm, lead22:35
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fireunProteous: you've also been buying up surplus x-ray gowns and lining your basement with them, havnt you?22:36
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Proteousfireun, I don't get it22:40
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* GAN800 contemplates an ARM PoS mach23:16
GAN800ine23:16
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GAN800Yearly that would have to be a huge powersaving23:17
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Stskeepsnext 24/7 server i will have will be ARM23:18
Stskeepsreally considering a sheevaplug23:18
woglinde*g*23:19
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woglindeeveryone wants a sheeva23:19
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EdLinwhat'sa sheevaplug?23:20
woglindeuh?23:21
woglindeyou didnt get informed about the 1.2 ghz arm cpu23:21
StskeepsEdLin: http://gizmodo.com/5159399/sheevaplug-a-99-linux-pc-crammed-inside-a-wall-plug23:21
nomisStskeeps: do you have an idea if they come in an european variant as well?23:23
ShadowJKI have one23:24
ShadowJKThere's eu variant now23:24
woglindeShadowJK where to buy?23:24
woglindesome people asked me about23:24
ShadowJKBut the plug is removable, behind it is a standard socket thing23:25
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EdLinwoglinde: http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-22-sheevaplug-dev-kit-us.aspx23:25
ShadowJKThe kind you see/saw on portable radio casette players23:25
Stskeepsoo?23:25
ShadowJKYeh23:26
Stskeepsneat23:26
woglindeedlin the europeanversion23:26
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EdLinwoglinde: take a look at the website, they sell it too I think.23:26
woglindeah too23:26
woglindeokay23:26
GAN800Stskeeps, sadly the PoS software I have to use only runs on 98.23:26
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qwerty12_N810Upgrade to Windows ME23:27
ShadowJKTook about 6 weeks before I got mine23:28
ShadowJKGot it this week, havent had much time to play with it23:28
GAN800I'm hoping I might be able to manage it in Wine23:28
GAN800Be really nice to save the money on XP licenses.23:28
ShadowJKThough usb-plug-ssh-remote does aout 10meg per sec23:29
ShadowJKShould do wonderfully on nfs im hoping23:29
woglindehm the openrd-client looks good too?23:29
ShadowJKYou get more connectors :)23:30
woglindevga!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!23:31
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woglindethat would make a good carpc23:31
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ShadowJKIt kinda amuses me. It's basically a proper arm computer... Cheap.. But probably too late to reviwe riscos23:33
woglindeno fans23:34
Stskeeps200$ for that? cheap23:34
ShadowJKI wonder how it would have turned out if there hadnt been a huge gap with missing affordable hardware23:34
woglindefull gbit ethernet23:34
lbtThe CPU isn't the issue..... the HCI i23:34
woglindearm23:34
lbts23:34
woglindenot atom23:34
lbtor general Environment/Computer Iinterface23:35
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lbtA CPU in a plug may as well be hosted23:35
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ShadowJKLbt: the other thing, not plug, has vga, sata, 7usb and some other ports..23:37
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lbtwhich? the 22 version?23:38
Stskeepsif it's really not fanned, it might be gf acceptable :P23:38
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* Stskeeps wonders watt usage23:39
lbt"it operates on only 5-watts of power"23:39
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Stskeepsthe openrd client?23:39
* lbt thinks his irc is hiding lines....23:40
ShadowJKNote that the ports and connectors differ between the two openrd versions23:40
Stskeepsyeah23:41
ShadowJKMy plug seems to get quite warm.. But probably not unreasonably warm for 5watts in a glossy plastic closed box23:42
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