IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-06-04

« Wednesday, 2009-06-03 Index Friday, 2009-06-05 »
lardmanwhich isn't a problem for you00:00
huband the RAM00:00
hubwhich is a problem00:00
lardmanyeah, I don't tend to do other stuff at the same time, so I wouldn't know00:00
lcukmafw is coming soon :) expect 1000000000001 new media players..00:01
lardmanall good00:01
lardmanjust need some new hw to go with it ;)00:02
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lcukindeed, was tempting to run at weekend :O00:02
lcuklbt tried to pocket one as well i believe lol00:02
lbtyeah... :(00:02
lardman:D00:02
hub*sigh*00:03
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hubGPE Audio Player get a fail :-(00:03
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* lardman hates having to finish writing reports the day before he goes on honeymoon00:06
lardmannot that it happens often00:06
hubfinishing reports?00:07
lardmanyeah, yearly reporting stuff00:07
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hubso the honeymoon happens more often? ;-)00:08
lardmanlol, no00:08
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lcuklbt - i just thought this was you until i looked up!00:10
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7aYuJHH3Do00:10
lardmanlcuk apparently has Nokia related YouTube videos on constant shuffle in the background....00:11
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lardman;)00:12
lcukciroip, mentioned him - i started listening whilst coding00:12
lbtheh... no sound00:12
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lcukgod lbt - its your voice!00:12
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lcukand ive just left you00:12
lcuk:D00:12
lbthey.... I'm using it00:12
lcukheh00:13
lcukyour hair has grown significantly since the weekend aswell00:14
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Stskeepslcuk: that's a massive beard00:15
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ciroipWibree, Nokia's new standard, to replace Bluetooth00:18
hublooks like Media Box at least cut it00:20
hubto some extent00:20
lardmantoo much to do, /me grabs a glass of wine and hits the sofa00:20
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Proteousgoddamnit nokia, ship me my phone plz00:27
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RST38hHo ho ho00:31
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RST38hFound a memory corruption00:31
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Proteousyou can't remember what you had for dinner last night?00:40
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hubwill mafw support Ogg-Vorbis?00:41
Jaffahub: MAFW doesn't "support" any fformat AIUI; it provides playlistt mgmt and a player API over gstreamer00:44
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hubso will they support Ogg-Vorbis by default too?00:45
JaffaDo you mean, "will Nokia ship Ogg Vorbis support for gstreamer in a Maemo 5 device?"?00:46
JaffaIf so, I dunno - there's an issue for it in bugzilla (may have been closed as community provided support for diablo)00:46
hubJaffa: the issue is still open00:48
hubmost votes00:48
hubmost voted00:48
huband in the bug jar everytime00:48
hubI guess the answer is no00:49
hubor it would have been closed00:50
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JaffaFair enough00:50
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lardman|drinkinghub: as all audio decoders are going to run on the ARM, there should be no real issue00:57
hublardman|drinking: as long as it is not shipped by default, it is an issue00:58
lardman|drinkingI hope/trust that adding in support for the meta-data will also be easier with MAFW too00:58
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lardmanwell, there are supposed problems with shipping ogg support00:58
lardmanlegal ones00:58
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Jaffahub: Why? The device is supposed to be enhanced by installing extra stuff. As long as there are ways (gstreamer, MAFW) of integrating seamlesssly...00:59
lardmanor at least that's my understanding of why work was stopped on the dsp tasks for the n8x0 devices00:59
hublardman: that's why they ship it with Navicore and other stuff00:59
hubJaffa: that's a foolish argument01:00
JaffaIt's not like Aunt Jane is going to have a library of OV music and be incapable of opening the App Mgr01:00
hubJaffa: it is supposed to work as is01:00
lardmandon;t ask me! :)01:00
lardmanhub: most people use mp3.01:00
Jaffahub: "it"?01:00
hubJaffa: the device01:00
hublardman: and?01:00
hublardman: most people don't even need the device01:01
JaffaAnd it does work for what it's advertisied to do01:01
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lardmanhub: well, I'd like to launch rockets with the device, but I bet it won't come ready to do that out of the box: catering for the majority01:01
JaffaI don't complain that netcat isn't shipped as std, I just install it. Same for Gnumeric, same for MSN in IM system, same for...01:01
hublardman: it is a chicken and egg problem. if there is no support, there is no reason to use01:02
lardmanyeah fair enough, but that philosphy, not really relevant here01:02
hublardman: so far the logic is flawed01:02
lardmannot at all01:02
hubanyway01:02
lardmanwhat % of users will use ogg, put it like that01:02
hublardman: again chicken and egg problem01:03
lardmanI fully agree that it should be nice and easy to add support mind you, I just don't think that it should necessarily come ready to go out fo the box01:03
hublardman: maybe we should all buy an iphone01:03
hubthe % that can't run itunes is SMALL01:03
Jaffahub: Why should Nokia solve the chicken & egg problem?01:03
lardmandifference between can't/don't and can/do of course01:03
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hubJaffa: because in that case it is support from device that will allow the increase01:04
hubwhile it is true that the Jobs-Pod undermine the effort01:04
lardmanhub: deciding to use ogg is a choice really, and if someone decides to go that route, I agree it should be easy to use it01:04
hubbut anyway we disagree I'm fine with that01:04
hubI was just asking01:05
JaffaAnd what is the business case for Nokia increasing the adoption of OV, if they provide mechanisms for the interested community to solve the problem?01:05
lardmanno, I don't disagree, I tried quite hard to port tremor to the DSP, I'm just realistic about what we should expect, and I don't use ogg ;)01:05
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hubthat's probably why I haven't bought a music player01:07
hubso far01:07
hub(I didn't pay for the n800, nor the 770)01:07
hubgetting a 810 was tempting but the Ogg vorbis b.s. refreined me from giving money to nokia for that01:08
hubanyway01:08
lardmanI'd be interested to know if the legal issue still stands; if not, I agree with you that a vorbis gstreamer task should either ship, or be automatically installed when a user wants to play .oggs01:08
hubI was just try to gather some info01:08
hubnot start a flamewar01:09
lardmannah don;t worry about that, we're constantly flameproof aren't we Jaffa :)01:09
hublardman: the legal issue does not stand. but coming from one of the stakeholder of patent on MPEG* is not surprising01:09
hublardman: the FUD that Nokia employees did on the HTML-WHATWG about the HTML5 video and audio support is a proof01:09
Jaffalardman: indeed :)01:09
lardmanhub: there was some legal justification, an even if it probably won't stand, Nokia's a big company and liable to be sued01:10
hublardman: as long as the proof is not given (give the patent #) it is void01:10
hublardman: it is just gratuitous01:10
lardmanyour view is shortsighted01:10
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hublardman: no it is not01:10
JaffaAlso, one lawyer's interpretation of risk/law doesn't neccesarily correspond to Nokia's laywers' ;-)01:10
lardmanrealistically for a bif company, they want to look at value provided for a given risk01:10
hubthey do ship it01:11
hubreally01:11
lardmanI guess ogg doesn't cut it there01:11
hubcheck "navicore" which is from Nokia01:11
lardmanyes, but that shipping wasn't there software01:11
hubit has Ogg playback01:11
hubit is Nokia01:11
lardmans/there/their01:11
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lardmanwasn't when it was written mind you01:11
huband?01:11
hubit just proof that the risk isn't01:12
lardmanit also encapsulates the playback, which probably mitagates the risk01:12
hubbecause it is the same01:12
lardmanI think providing codecs to allow people to play their own ogg files, assuming there is some patent problem, would be worse than using it in some inherited software01:12
JaffaThere are three possible reasons for no OOB OV playback in gstreamer (and hence Media Player): 1) Nokia don't see it worth their investment, but have no other reasons (practical)01:12
Jaffa2) Nokia as a corp has a policy of FUD against OV (fundamental)01:13
hublardman: nope01:13
hubJaffa: 2) is the most probable. as 1) has even been solved for them01:13
Jaffa3) Nokia's laywers don't want to expose OV to end users for perceived legal reasons (legal)01:13
lardmanI go for 3)01:14
Jaffahub: Community writing code is a long way from shipping and supporting it as part of a consumer product01:14
hub3 and 2 are the same01:14
lardmanno01:15
* Jaffa would order 3, 1, 2. Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by well, anything01:15
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lardmanone is a choice to not support open source, the other is a problem with possible exposure from a legal threat01:15
hubJaffa: Nokia employees comment on the HTML-WHATWG for HTML5 prove that 2 is on top01:16
lardmanlarge companies' legal departments are, after all, somewhat slow on the uptake01:16
lardmanwhat is HTML-WHATWG?01:16
* lardman goes to google01:16
hubthe working group for HTML501:16
hubmaybe I got the acronym letters wromng01:17
lardmancan you give me a linky to the comment please?01:17
hublet me find the link01:17
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lardmannah the letters are right01:17
hubhttp://www.whatwg.org/01:17
Jaffahub: Did he say "It is Nokia policy to undermine Ogg at any opportunity"? If not, you're expressing your intepretation as fact01:17
hubJaffa: he said he was opposed to the specification of Ogg Vorbis/Theora as a baseline codec for HTML501:18
hubbottom line there is none01:18
lardmanah, this is about the standardisation of media formats stuff?01:18
hubApple added their own01:18
hublardman: about HTML and in that case the video and audio support01:18
hubbut coming from Apple, not surprising either01:18
Jaffahub: That doesn't mean Nokia have a policy of FUD against OV/T; it means he saw there were reasons (one of the 3 above) to not mandate it as a baseline in HTML501:19
lardmananyway we're talking about vorbis really aren't we, not ogg as that's just the container01:19
Jaffalardman: *nods*01:20
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hubJaffa: their whitepaper called Ogg-Vorbis "proprietary"01:20
lardmanyes, I have also heard about that01:20
hublardman: I said Ogg Vorbis / Theora01:20
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Jaffahub: true01:20
lardmandue to some hanging legal threats to the allegedly un-patent-encombered format01:20
hubalso as the risk, it should be noted that even MPEG-4 there is no guarantee from the MPEG-LA that all the patent needed are licensed in the package01:21
hubwhich open the same risk01:21
hubso the argument does not stick either01:21
hubIANAL (btw)01:21
JaffaSimilar risk, not necessarily same consequence01:21
lardmanah, but the companies pay someone to license the patent/sw. and that company takes on the risk then01:22
hubJaffa: why not the same consequence?01:22
lardmantherefore any legal challenge/compensation claim would consume the licensor first, giving some protection01:23
JaffaIf there's a risk of getting sued for patent A, and a risk of getting sued for patent B - the consequnce is the monetary exposure; which could be different depending on whoowns A & B, and to what relationships/counter-patents you have with them01:23
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Jaffahub:Nokia aren't actively blocking us doing OV, so I think it could be a fine device for you, if you want mobile OV01:24
hubJaffa: given how bad is the player on the N800 it surely didn't convince me01:25
lardmanthe other factor, re exposure to suing, is that lots of companies have licensed mp3 from Fauenhoffer (or whateve they are called) and not been sued, so it's a fair bet that Nokia won't be either01:25
hublardman: anybody can sue anybody.01:25
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lardmanwhereas using the non-licensed vorbis codec means anyone could sue you01:25
lardmanhub: not really, it would be pushed to the licensor01:25
hublardman: so you want somebody to ask money for Ogg-Vorbis when there is no patent associated?01:26
Jaffahub: Right, but that's a seperate reason to "no OV OOtB"01:26
hublardman: maybe I should ask mone then01:26
lardmanand it's the fact that no-one has tried yet, despite the big and tasty fish using it01:26
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hubbut like MPEG-LA, no guarantee01:26
hublardman: read the licensing agreement and the disclaimers associated01:26
lardmanI'm not trying to persuade you, just giving you some reasons that may indicate why it happened01:27
hubI was not asking excuse01:28
hubI was just asking, from people who have info, if it would be supported01:28
hubyou all tried to find excuse01:28
hubI couldn't care less01:28
lardmanI believe it will not be supported out of the box01:28
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lardmanbut, I think it should be easy to add the components to make it work01:29
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lardmani.e. more easily than with the current player01:29
lardmanc'est tout01:29
Jaffahub: I'm sure if you gave Nokia lots of money in a big contract, they'd tell you - under NDA - if it's reason 2 or 3. If it's purely practical, someone from Nokia may answer01:29
hubJaffa: money, things I don't have01:29
Jaffahub: asking a general question on IRC isn't necessairly going to get the attention of a Nokian in a position to answer.01:30
hubI didn't ask for the excuse01:30
hubI asked whether it was there or not01:30
hubbut that I have had the answer a while back01:30
JaffaYeah, which is "we don't know; probably not"01:31
lardmanI quote:01:31
lardman[lardman|drinking] hub: as all audio decoders are going to run on the ARM, there should be no real issue01:31
lardman <hub> lardman|drinking: as long as it is not shipped by default, it is an issue01:31
lardmanand so it started01:31
JaffaThen we explained - with the benefit of our experience - why the 'not' miight be01:31
hublardman: true and I stick to that opinion01:31
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lardmanwe've tried to tell you why we think it's happened, nothing more or less01:32
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hub*why we think* <- speculation01:32
hubas gratuitous as mine :-)01:32
lardmanindeed01:32
lardmanbut I've spoken to more people than you have related to ogg vorbis on the Nokia tablets01:33
Jaffahub: Excpet you used phrases like "prove"01:33
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JaffaWhich doesn't imply opinion. And "It is an issue" isn't the same as "It''s an issue for me, as I require vendors for consumer electronics to ship Ogg vorbis support out-of-the-box; rather than as a third-party add-on available through the pkging system"01:34
* lardman is more interested to know if the French will try to find that black box01:36
lardmanand is crossing his fingers it'd not an Airbus on Friday... ;)01:36
* Jaffa been on a few cross-Atlantic A330s01:36
Jaffalardman: congrats btw!01:36
lardmanThanks :)01:37
lardmanamazed the weather held out actually :)01:37
lardmanlol @ France's minister responsible for transportation: "The sea currents are powerful that far down" as justification for why the black box may not be recovered01:38
lardmanAnyway hub, when the next device turns up I'll be more than happy to help with adding ogg-vorbis support if it's not already included (which I doubt)01:40
hublardman: I doubt I'll buy it01:40
lardmanDo Archos support ogg out of the box?01:41
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wazdit supports it for money01:42
lardmanah ok, interesting01:42
lardmanbuilding up a counter-sue fund perhaps :)01:42
wazdwanna new wallpaper - pay, wanna new format - pay :)01:42
lardmanyeah, I knew that :)01:43
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lardmanhey derf01:48
lardmanjust missed one of your favoutite topics, vorbis support :)01:48
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* lardman needs a spell checker on his irc client01:49
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mavhcyou need spellie01:50
lardmanfor xchat though I guess?01:50
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mavhcjust write a Wave IRC extension01:55
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lardmannight all02:02
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* GAN8001 chuckles.02:33
GAN8001Ogg provides endless entertainment.02:33
ProteousOGG SMASH02:36
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jaskaheh02:37
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GAN8001Geneven well and truly has lost it.02:42
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GAN8001keesj, about an 1 a day.02:51
GAN8001Most of the stuff you can skim or skip.02:51
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BobbeI know this is not maemo-related, but I'm hoping somebody will have had the same problem here. Is there anything I can do to reduce my wifi latency?03:13
hubBobbe: move closer to the AP? ;-)03:13
Bobbeand about geneven, you mean the n900 specs thread?03:14
BobbeI'm 2 feet away from it hub. It feels that there's always a 1-2 second gap before the N800 makes a request and the connection icon lights up03:14
BobbeI dunno03:14
hubBobbe: dude, that was a joke03:14
Bobbehub, lol03:14
hubthere was a smiley03:14
Bobbemy bad, completely missed the smiley03:15
Bobbeand it does get a little slower when I'm a few meters away03:15
Bobbebut that's not a lot lol03:15
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BobbeI'm guessing it's my crappy router03:15
Bobbebut I see these videos of incredibly responsive wifis. Like the guy clicks and it's loading the page already03:16
BobbeI keep looking at that 'connecting' scrollbar coming and going, coming and going03:16
Bobbemy E71 doesn't suffer from that03:16
BobbeI connect to it, open a website, bam!03:16
Bobbethere03:16
Bobbe(by bam! I mean as much bam as I can get with my 2mbps connection)03:17
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chxso...04:58
chxI have my N810 for just a few days. I go to London Drugs today to buy a blender, the guy in the store points at a Black & Decker, recommending it. I whip out the N810, check Amazon.com it has a single star ... I bought another :p04:58
GAN800Who doesn't love a tablet?05:02
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chxGAN800: the guy who tried to sell me a 65 bucks blender and i walked with a 45 bucks one instead?05:12
GAN800Ehehe05:12
chxcome on, this one ground up almonds05:12
chxunless i am ready to shell out 400 usd (the above was cad) for the blendtec total i will be hard pressed to find a better one05:13
chxhttp://www.seriouseats.com/talk/2007/09/need-reccos-for-the-strongest-blender-ever.html read the comments, lol05:16
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xander21cHi05:22
xander21ckind of need help with n80005:23
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xander21canyone there?05:29
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chxxander21c: maybe if you would ask your question.05:44
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xander21cok05:45
xander21cI got a n80005:45
xander21ci will like to make an app start right after i finish booting05:45
xander21cup05:45
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xander21cchx?05:47
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chxxander21c: http://tinyurl.com/oqcrvk05:49
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xander21cthanks chx kind find a solution06:05
xander21cbut the table a got does not have /etc/osso-af-init/real-af-base-apps06:06
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Dantonichow do I make an app load on startup?08:06
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Dantonichow do I make a program load on startup on the n800?08:26
rm_youprobably with init.d?08:27
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Dantonicwhat's that?08:28
rm_youhttp://www.google.com/search?q=init.d08:30
rm_youfirst two results are fairly useful08:30
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rm_youshort answer: no easy way that I know, besides mucking around with command-line stuff08:31
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zakkmrm_you: its not that difficult ;p08:32
zakkmmaemo starts hildon-desktop, and all the hildon stuff, you would just have to know where that file is, and add to it08:33
rm_youwell, for someone who doesn't know what init.d is, it will seem very complicated :)08:33
rm_youI could do it, sure08:33
zakkm.. /etc/osso-af-init/real-af-base-apps08:35
zakkmnot best solution but eh08:35
zakkmyou shouldnt really turn on/off the tablet..08:35
zakkmthough08:35
Stskeepslo rm_you, made it safely home?08:37
zakkmStskeeps: did it finish?08:37
Stskeepsdid what? weekend finished sunday08:39
zakkmoh08:39
zakkmwas it fun?08:39
zakkmworth attending08:39
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Stskeepsof course08:40
thuxmorning08:40
RXrenesis8"zakkm: you shouldnt really turn on/off the tablet.."   Please elaborate, if you wouldn't mind.08:41
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zakkmRXrenesis8: the battery  life, its not worth it to turn it off.. it takes alot of power to turn it off and on.. then leave it on for several days08:41
Stskeepsa boot takes a lot of battery08:42
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Stskeepsleaving it locked, backlight off is a lot better08:42
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zakkmStskeeps: one day i got my nokia confiscated in school.. for 5 days.. it didnt lower in % of battery the whole time lol08:43
zakkmwell i didnt have advanced battery.. but yeah08:43
rm_youStskeeps: ya08:43
rm_youand collapsing now :P08:43
* rm_you sleeps08:43
RXrenesis8zakkm: good stuff, I thought you might've been implying something more ominous, thanks. :P08:44
zakkmwaste of time? :P08:44
zakkmhah08:44
Dantonicwhere is init.d located?08:46
zakkm... /etc08:46
Dantonick08:47
Dantonicso it's a folder.  what do i do with it?08:48
Dantonicedit one of the files?08:48
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zakkmDantonic: you shouldnt really restart the tablet, adding to startup wouldnt help so much08:48
zakkminit.d is all the startup stuff08:48
zakkmso you'd have to find the right file for exact spot you want it to startup08:49
zakkmand add it to the line of the file08:49
Dantonicit happens at times that the system crashes and reboots.  i need it to start xchat when that happens.  ie if it happens while i'm sleeping.  it's rare, but still08:50
zakkmyou could add it to /etc/osso-af-init/real-af-base-apps08:50
zakkmsystem crashes and reboots? a reflash might be in order08:50
zakkmit shouldnt crash and often08:50
Dantonicnot often, but sometimes.  not sure i think its due to xchat and backlight or advanced battery08:52
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Dantoniczakkm, i don't have that file.  can you give me an idea of how init.d works?09:00
zakkmyou know how booting works?09:01
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Dantonicnot sure what i need to know about it.  if i add a file called xchat, and add a command line to execute it will that work?09:03
DantonicI'm not sure how booting works09:04
zakkmno09:04
zakkmeach init.d file starts at different times / some may not start at all09:04
zakkmgo here09:04
zakkmto /etc/osso-af-init/real-af-base-apps  09:04
zakkmand add xchat in a new line at the bottom09:04
zakkmthat would work09:04
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Dantonici don't have osso-af-init/09:05
zakkmhm09:06
zakkmmaybe your stuk in init.d then09:06
zakkmits been awhile since ive used debian09:06
Dantonicetc has no dirs or files w/ that name09:06
Dantonichmm09:07
Dantonicwait i'm an idiot :P09:08
Dantoniczakkm, ok opened it.  that's  ugly, where do i add it?09:10
zakkmheh09:10
zakkmbottom-ish line09:10
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zakkmwhat do you see there09:11
zakkmDantonic: ^09:11
Dantonicstuff like if [ -f /tmp/run-osso-backup-finish-restore ]; then09:12
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zakkmeek09:12
zakkmmaybe i should try openingit09:13
Dantonicbunch of if statements09:13
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zakkmDantonic: try adding xchat to last line09:15
zakkmlike as a new line09:15
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Dantonicjust 'xchat' right?09:15
zakkmyeah09:16
zakkmyeah maybe hildon-desktop if that didnt do that09:16
Dantoniccrap won't let me edit it from notes09:17
zakkmoh yeah you'd need root09:18
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Dantonici guess i need to do it from command line?09:18
Dantonicidk how to do that :(09:18
zakkmuh09:18
zakkmosso-notes real-af-base-apps09:19
zakkmohh09:19
zakkmroot first09:19
Dantonicok09:19
zakkmyou know how to do root?09:20
Dantonicya i'm there but how do i edit the file? gedit?09:20
zakkmgedit?09:20
zakkmwhat do you think this is, ;p09:20
zakkmtheres no gedit on the tablet09:20
Dantoniclol ya figured09:20
zakkmyour used to writting gedit09:21
zakkmokay instead of gedit put osso-notes09:21
Dantonicso how?09:21
Dantonicoh09:21
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zakkmsame way should work.. just swap those two09:21
Dantonici'm linux noob ;;09:21
zakkm:)09:21
zakkmyou like gedit?09:22
zakkmalot of ppl tend to use leafpad, it runs fast on the tablet09:22
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Dantonic/bin/sh: osso-notes: not found09:24
Dantonicleafpad gives an error too09:24
zakkmdang09:24
zakkmdo you have leafpad installed?09:24
Dantonicya09:24
zakkmdang09:25
zakkmstart fine for me from terminal?09:25
Dantonicprocess 2143: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up;09:26
Dantonicetc09:26
zakkmohh09:26
zakkmosso_notes not osso-notes09:26
Dantonicstarts from menj09:26
zakkmwait what tablet version are you using?09:26
zakkmwhat tablet do you have09:26
Dantonicno that was for leafpad but let me try notes09:26
Dantonicn80009:26
zakkmstill that shouldnt happen09:27
zakkmwhat version of OS?09:27
zakkmin terminal it should be like busybox v_._._ ( DATE )09:27
zakkmwhats the date09:27
Dantonicnotes opened but it's blanl09:27
Dantonicblank09:28
zakkmdid you do osso_notes rf-base-apps w.e09:28
Dantonicya09:28
zakkmwhat date is on busybox?09:28
Dantonic/etc/osso-af-init # osso_notes real-af-base-apps09:28
Dantonicbusybox?09:28
zakkmopen a new terminal09:28
Dantonichow do i check?09:29
zakkmat top09:29
zakkmit should be like busybox v1.6.1( date )09:29
DantonicBusyBox v1.6.1 (2008-09-18 09:43:17 EEST) Built-in shell (ash)09:29
zakkmoh okay your up to date09:29
zakkmthats weird, you shouldnt be getting a dbus error09:30
Dantonichmm09:30
Dantonicidk09:30
Dantonicwell no worries man,  i'll try some more09:31
Dantonicthanks for your help09:31
zakkmyou could use vi?09:31
zakkmthat would defintely work, ive tried that09:31
zakkmhere what am i thinking ill add xchat and reboot myself09:31
Dantonicew vi i tried but-cant find a good list of commands09:32
zakkmill see if adding xchat there is the solution09:32
Dantonicok09:32
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zakkmDantonic: rebooting09:34
Dantonick09:34
zakkmtheres two places, ive tried one09:34
zakkmi should document this aftewards, for future purposes hah09:34
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Davide<=== Dantonic09:35
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Davideso did it work?09:35
Davidezakkm?09:35
zakkmDavide: hehh i just crashed everything but xchat opened up09:35
zakkm:D09:35
DavideLOL09:35
Davideso where did you add it?09:36
zakkmlike just xchat, i should of added a if09:36
zakkmlol dont add it09:36
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Davidehaha09:37
zakkmgoing to fix my nokia and try again09:37
Davideok09:37
Davideyou should write a guide for this on the forums :)09:37
zakkmDavide: sorry man having trouble repairing my memo09:41
zakkmmaemo*09:41
zakkmbetter i did this than you hah09:41
Davideno problem dude09:41
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DavideLOL I'm sorry09:41
Davidehope it's not messed up09:41
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zakkmwish i was better at helping :(09:43
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Davidenah man thats fine...09:44
DavideI was just wondering... I mean it shouldn't be too tough you'd think...09:45
Davidejust to have an app start...09:45
zakkmyeah its just a matter of the right spot09:45
zakkmin the right file09:45
Davidehow are the applets made to start?09:45
DavideMaybe I'll ask the question in the forums09:45
zakkmi added to the wrong file09:45
DavideNot sure how you figure what the wrong or right file is09:45
Davidefor example what does each file do?09:46
DavideI dont get it09:46
zakkmeach get started at a different time09:46
zakkmin a certain order09:46
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zakkmi screwed up cause i put xchat in the wrong order09:46
zakkmso xchat started up.. and it stopped there09:47
zakkmall the rest of the scripts09:47
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Davideah09:49
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zakkmDavide: sweet im back in, you still here?10:23
Davideya10:23
zakkmthat took along time to repair10:23
zakkmi really dont think i can figure it out, i dont know much about the ins and outs of maemo, but honestly like uhh say 12 hours from now, if thats late for you then maybe about 18 hours or so10:24
zakkmDavide: ask the question here again, someone would know the right file10:24
Dantonicok man ty10:25
zakkmi can keep trying each one if you want, but to honest if you can wait, i would say wait10:25
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Davideya I'm gonna wait cause I"m brushing my teeth to go to bed :)10:29
Davideso np10:29
Davidethanks man10:29
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mib_qctj5whow to debug the .so format file?11:17
mib_qctj5wthe package is a plugin.11:18
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mgedminmib_qctj5w: I seem to remember seeing a wiki page about debugging Hildon plugins (statusbar/home applets)11:34
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RST38hmoo all11:34
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RST38hehlo wazd11:45
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wazdRST38h: heya11:47
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MeizirkkiWhoever the "Android for Ubuntu" developer is, he's annoying. He's continuously showing off some androin on top of Ubuntu, but not putting up a nodumentation :(11:52
Meizirkkis/nodo/a do/11:52
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ZakkmN800heh11:54
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RST38hAnyone has got a GrandCentral invite?12:30
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floriangood morning12:44
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Stskeeps"gotten a hold of DigiCube's just unveiled MIDPhone-50 at Computex, and we have to say that from the looks of it, it's quite a wild affair. The MIDPhone-50 is a Windows XP, full QWERTY-boasting, touchscreen mid, and a 3.5G mobile phone to boot. The tilting, 800 x 480 touchscreen is 4.5-inches, with mini-USB, standard USB, and microSD slots, plus a docking station with VGA output. Specwise, the phone / MID has an Intel Atom Z-series CPU with up to 1GB ...12:58
Stskeeps... of RAM, with Bluetooth and WiFi. The battery supposedly gets a quite sad two hours of life.12:58
Stskeepsi love the last sentence.12:59
amrlol12:59
RST38hI do not understand why it does not fold up like a netbook =)12:59
Stskeepswho the fuck would use this thing as a phon..12:59
Stskeeps:P12:59
RST38hBallmer?13:00
qwerty12Stskeeps: http://handcellphone.com/wp-content/themes/green-marinee/phonepic/Samsung-SPH-P9000-run-windows-xp-cell-phone-1.jpg *grin* - always a favourite13:00
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Stskeepsqwerty12: ..13:01
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lcukqwerty12, thats like a decepticon13:13
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jukeywuha... what's going on with http://maemo.org ?13:15
jukeyi get tonns of errors13:15
mikkov_it's broken, but now it's fast :)13:17
X-Fadewtf!13:17
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wizadamn, trapster.com doesn't support internet tablet :(13:24
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jeremiah_http://maemo.org seems to be working for me . . .13:40
X-FadeYeah, good that we have a cluster.13:40
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X-FadeI've shut down the ones with a dead disk.13:40
jeremiah_aha, the old dead disk.13:42
jeremiah_Yuck13:42
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amrthe shareware copy of quake213:42
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amrwhat do i need to do to make it into the full game?13:42
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amri own it, obv13:42
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lardmanmorning all13:43
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Stskeepsamr: maybe copy the data files? dunno13:56
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X-FadeOk, affected hosts have been moved to non broken hardware. Website problem solved.14:15
X-FadeInternal mmc of the tablets had bad blocks :)14:16
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StskeepsWSOD'ed 770? ;)14:18
X-FadeStskeeps: Nah, I was thinking about the partition size problem ;)14:18
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lbtX-Fade... was the wiki style changed just recently? visited links going to grey?14:25
X-Fadelbt: that is a global change, yes.14:25
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lbtah... FWIW I find them slightly harder to read and see than the normal text... whereas I'd like them slightly more higlighted... just some feedback14:26
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X-FadeYeah, not sure what to use there.14:29
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lbthere's a test-case page where I used an inline-link style....  http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build14:30
lbtdo you need to differentiate visited ?14:31
lbtmaybe the darker orange?14:32
X-Fadelbt: Yes, as that gives the user more information about what he has seen already.14:32
lbtfair... maybe orange from the top of the 'GO' vs the bottom of the 'GO'14:32
lbttoo subtle?14:33
lbtanyhow... I trust you... I'll get back to writing ;)14:33
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X-FadeMaybe we would need somebody who is colorblind to tell us this. As grey on grey isn't the best either.14:33
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lcukX-Fade, view webpages on the n810 in the sunlight - the color washes out to leave a virtual b&w image, if the difference is visible there it should be visible at other times15:11
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lardmancu chaps, back in a fortnight15:25
lardman:)15:25
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minrathe n810 is tremendous.  since my thinkpad broke, im using it constantly15:45
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minrathe main problem is these evil websites15:45
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X-Fademinra: Don't visit evil websites :)15:46
amri love my n81015:46
amrim actually playing sonic advance on it right now :)15:46
minravbga?15:46
minrahard to avoid X-Fade - many news sites have like 150+ "elements"15:47
amryeah, cgba15:47
amrvgba15:47
rmtI really think that a controller box for it would be great..15:47
minravgba rules, but the snes rpgs are much better15:47
amroh? i havent tried any snes games yet15:48
rmtBut I think if I want a real Linux based gaming handheld, I'd go for OpenPandora15:48
minrawe dont have a decent snes emu yet15:48
minraif you could get one ordered and delivered15:48
Macerhm. anybody here use osx on normal pc hardware?15:49
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minraalso RST38h consider WASD as an alternate to dpad15:50
amrsmart thinkin15:50
amri liket he default SDL quake controls15:50
minraoe qweasdzxc15:50
minraor15:51
minramhm15:51
minrawant to work on an emu?15:51
amrwhat's the button for 'select' in VGBA?15:53
minraforgot15:53
amrhm15:53
amro well15:53
wazdleaked photo of the new tablet http://s61.radikal.ru/i174/0906/b6/cf9bf5f77703.jpg15:55
mgedminI hope the from/to/subject fields scroll up15:56
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minraattractive design.  will sell.15:58
minraand i see the improved dpad ;)15:59
aquatixlol16:00
aquatixno navigational buttons at all :/16:00
mgedminthey've improved the design16:00
mgedminthe best design is the one where you cannot take anything away16:00
minrawasd ftw16:00
mgedminhjkl!16:01
X-Fadewazd: You forgot the symbol and fn and cursor keys :)16:01
aquatixminra: tried Tear browser?16:01
mgedminnow having . and , on the same key makes me unhappy16:01
minraplus the reduced size makes it mentally fit into the phone category16:01
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X-Fademinra: Oh yeah? Where is the speaker you hold your ear onto? :)16:02
minraaquarius-, tear is useless for me cause i cant copy/paste to/from it16:02
minraon the side i bet16:02
aquatixminra: yeah, that sucks indeed16:02
aquatixhave the same issue16:02
aquatixbut it rocks for browsing in general16:02
aquatixa lot better than microb16:02
zapthat's horrible, can't buy a N810 neither in Moscow or in St. Petersburg. Is it out of production already?16:03
aquatixif they fix copy/pasting and editing bookmarks, i'm all set16:03
minrammm.  most of my browsing takes links from irc16:03
minraand copies links to irc16:03
minrawho is the tear guru?16:03
wazdx-fade: well, I can't find Fn button here :) http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/05/nokiarover-1.jpg16:04
wazdx-fade: let's add some drama16:04
X-Fadewazd: I'm sure it is on there :)16:05
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wazdX-Fade: can you see it?)16:05
X-FadeThe symbol key too btw.16:05
wazdthat's why I think that this is all fake :)16:06
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X-Fadewazd: But nice drawing. Very nice..16:07
X-Fadewazd: You forgot the light sensor too btw.16:08
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VDVsxwazd, post the image on tmo, hiihihihi16:10
aquatix:)16:11
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wazdhttp://s49.radikal.ru/i123/0906/90/9a0aafc5337e.jpg <- Oh my god it's a phone!1116:14
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X-Fadewazd: Lol :)16:15
GeneralAntillesminra, Wiimote16:16
minranot for me.  i want to hold game device in front of my face16:16
minranot set it on a desk16:16
GeneralAntillesHehe . . . modest@maemo.org16:17
GeneralAntillesminra, both can be used one-handed.16:17
GeneralAntillesWiimote in right, tablet in left.16:17
minraum, thanks16:18
GeneralAntillesminra, I've got a friend who does it on the bus that way.16:18
minrahehe16:19
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lbtwazd... add a faint reflection of a bod holding a camera to the gloss...16:22
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wazdlbt: well, it's "press" shot :)16:23
wazdhttp://nds3.nokia.com/pressphotos/public/global/devices/n810/N810WiMAX3_Lowres.jpg <- like that for example16:24
lbtdid you render it?16:24
lbtit's a nice piccy16:25
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wazdhttp://s45.radikal.ru/i108/0906/59/dd9ed10b0fd1.jpg16:28
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roopeseems like people have way too much time on their hands.16:29
wazdfeaturing OMWeather :)16:29
VDVsxwazd, sweet :P16:29
Macerhttp://www.osnews.com/story/21564/Building_a_Hackintosh_Apple_Can_t_Sue_You_For16:30
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Macerhm. i wonder if you can sell PCs with that installed without getting sued16:30
lcukthe bitch about mockups comes when the designer realises the mockup is better than the realthing ;)16:31
lbtwazd: install Mer16:31
lcukwazd, your mockup doesnt include the holo projector we were promised on page 384543753745 of the thread on itt16:32
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Macerhahahha16:33
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lbtheh... where does the dpad go?16:33
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lcukyeah lbt, im sure there were more keys when we saw them at weekend, i think the other massive thread mentions em too16:34
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Macermassive is such a strong word :)16:35
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lcukperhaps at this rate nokia are having a sweepstakes with the manufacturer and the number of keys is chosen at random :D16:35
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Macerit is going to have voice capability correct?16:35
aquatixwazd: those software shots in that mockup, are those real?16:35
lcukmacer, my finger gets tired and i lose the will to live after about 200 pages16:35
Macerlcuk: best to just give up on the other 199 pages and just focus on the latest ;)16:36
lcukmacer, dunno havent seen or heard anything16:36
wazdaquatix: well, last one isn't but we're working on it :)16:36
lcuki just read viaspy page anyway16:36
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aquatixwazd: nice :)16:36
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Maceronly windows would make the shortcut keys for printing alt+R16:36
aquatixi still miss some keys though16:37
aquatixMacer: alt... R?!16:37
lcukyeah alt-p  is used for viewing help files16:37
Maceraquatix: yeah :)16:37
Macerthat  makes no sense16:37
mgedmin8-()16:37
Macerhaha16:37
lcukwell they had to do that cos f1 is used for moving to previous page16:37
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aquatixwhat does ctrl+p do?16:38
aquatixlcuk: :)16:38
lcukleaves a puddle under your monitor16:38
aquatixoh duh16:38
Macerhah.. i don't know. i was looking at the popup that pops up from the mouse hover over the print button16:38
andrewfblackHello16:38
lcukoh, sorry i mustv lost control16:38
lcukctrl p doesnt do anything16:38
aquatixMacer: the fuck?16:38
lcuklol16:38
Macerand it said "Print ... ALT+R"16:39
Maceri was like... alt+r? wtf?16:39
aquatixoh, the alt text16:39
lcukr being the next available letter16:39
lcukyou need an underscore somewhere in the label16:39
Macerlcuk: i think they just threw darts at a keyboard16:39
lcukthe p will have been wired to something else16:39
Macerwasn't help always F1?16:39
lcukit was until it escaped16:40
Maceror is MS eliminating function keys in order to sell cheaper MS ergo keyboards that use less plastic since there are no need for keys16:40
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lcukmacer, what was help before f116:41
Macerlcuk: don't remember16:42
Macermaybe something like alt+h?16:42
Macerhaha16:43
Macerand printing was alt+p16:43
lcukyou sure its not alt-e16:43
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Macerwho knows :) i'm going to try this leopard install onto this shuttle anyways16:44
Maceri think i hate win7 more than osx16:44
Macerand debian doesn't run too well on it.. i thnk the video card is a little screwy in linux16:44
lcukinstall visual studio.not on it and make the love in complete16:44
Maceryou see disgusting things happening when it redraws things16:45
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Macerwin7 isn't too bad though16:45
Maceri really can't believe they didn't make their own virtual desktop thing though . to have multiple desktops16:45
Macerthey are falling behind the curve16:46
aquatixMacer: help used to be F316:46
Macerbut then again. i guess releasing vista... they probably took a baseball bat to the teeth while turning the corner16:46
aquatixat least in wordperfect it was16:46
Maceraquatix: wp wasn't standard ms stuff16:47
aquatixi didn't say that16:47
Macerwell. i'm just saying. it wasn't an ms product so they probably made the keys different so people couldn't easily switch to word :)16:47
aquatixbut i didn't know you where talking about just ms stuff :)16:47
Maceryeah well. i just noticed it in ie816:47
aquatixword didn't exist back then16:47
Macersure it did :) word was around in the 3.1 era16:48
aquatixyeah16:48
aquatixwin 3.11 didn't exist back then :)16:48
aquatixwp was DOS you know :)16:48
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MacerRichard Brodie renamed it Microsoft Word, and Microsoft released the program October 25, 1983, for the IBM PC16:49
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aquatixAshton and Bastian started Satellite Systems International (SSI) to sell WordPerfect in 198016:50
aquatix:)16:50
aquatixbut point taken16:50
amrdoes anyone here develop for maemo on a windows pc16:51
amr?16:51
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amrlike through visualisation16:51
aquatixi guess the 1983 Word didn't have the windows shortcut standard though16:51
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GAN800amr, yes, a few do with VMWare.16:53
aquatix*g* @ ``For example, in Word for MS-DOS, a file would be saved with the sequence Escape-T-S: pressing Escape called up the menu box, T accessed the set of options for Transfer and S was for Save''16:53
aquatixthose where the days16:54
lirioh those old days16:55
liriI used to ran a BBS16:55
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Macerheh i did too16:55
liriI remember when windows 95 was out and my friends were all 'cite about it. multi-tasking then was "heaven" (for them) and I refused to install it16:55
liriI had dos multi-tasking done with qemu, they were shocked :)16:56
Maceri used to run roboboard/FX before it got gay and turned into something else that totally sucked16:56
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Macerdesqview ftw :)16:56
liridesqview yeah16:56
minradoubledos ;)16:56
liriI ran RA (remote access) and most of the other BBSs were running the other one (forgot the name)16:57
liriit was also a popular one, one word16:57
Maceriniquity?16:57
lirinop16:57
dnearyhi all16:57
Macerdamn. i know what you're talking about and it's at the tip of my tongue :)16:57
liriheh yeah16:57
Macerthe l33t hacker one16:57
Macerhaha16:57
liriGibson or Pibson or whatever16:57
lirisomething with a P I think16:57
Macerargh!16:57
liriPowerBBS?16:57
lirino16:57
Macerno16:57
lirishjit16:58
Maceri know16:58
Macerhaha16:58
lirinow I'm all obssesed with it and I' have to google it until I find the answer16:58
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liriwhat?!16:58
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MacerPCBoard16:59
Macer?16:59
liriuhmm no16:59
Macer:)16:59
MacerRenegade?16:59
Macerthat was used a lot since it was easy to set up16:59
liriI found http://www.dmine.com/bbscorner/software.htm17:00
liriI'm not seeing anything else there with a p17:00
liriI think maybe it was PCBoard17:00
Macerwell.. pcboard was another big one too17:00
liriman.. I miss those days17:00
liriI was writing pascal plugins for RA with backdoors to give me 65535 rate for my user17:01
lirilol17:01
Maceri wouldn't mind running a bbs on my server it it had an ssh frontend to it17:01
lirihere's the best part - I have made a backup of the bbs and I have it on a 650mb CD :)17:01
Macertelnet is too 1970s17:01
Macerhaha17:01
liriyeah17:01
Macerbut i suppose nowadays a bbs is a web site huh?17:02
Macerjust isn't the same :)17:02
liriPage the Sysop is todays' IM :)17:02
liriwe should start our own bbs underground network hehe17:02
liriwith actual 36k modems17:02
Macerlol17:02
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Macerno thanks . i wouldn't mind running one if it used ssh17:03
liriman... that 28800 connection was so fast then17:03
Maceri'm sure there is a way to tunnel it but i'd love to have something that did it for you17:03
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Macerwith zmodem xfering  :)17:03
Macerfuck it.. xmodem17:03
liripff17:04
* liri needs a time machine17:04
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Macerhaha... ah well. no point in looking upon the past and wishing it still was :)17:05
Maceralthough doing stuff like that was a lot more fun than all this boring new shit17:05
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Maceri hope this shuttle can run osx17:07
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rzr__hi17:45
rzr__will n900 support ofono http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=293687#post293687 ?17:45
stskeeps_who knows17:46
stskeeps_we don't even know what n900 is :)17:46
X-Fadeor how mature ofono is ;)17:46
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X-FadeA framework alone doesn't turn a tablet into a phone. Even if it had gsm capabilities.17:48
X-FadeThink of the amount of apps you need for phonebook, ringtones, SMS, MMS etc.17:48
stskeeps_yeah.. look at freerunner17:49
stskeeps_:P17:49
X-FadeLook at the enormous amount of work that goes into the email client alone. I'd guess the other apps are about the same complexity.17:50
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* wazd has found that he already tried to draw n900 time ago)18:04
wazdhttp://s50.radikal.ru/i128/0906/8b/c49d9499ee5c.jpg18:05
stskeeps_i really have doubts if there would be buttons on the sides18:05
wazdstskeeps_: well, that's really old mockup :) But I still like it :)18:06
wazdlooks like mobilecrunch has the right feeling bout keyboard layout18:08
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wazdhttp://cache0.techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/cp_1243218926_picture-4-630x485-215x165.png18:08
stskeeps_on the other hand, if you compare a n810 and that, it's really not that different18:09
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wazdthe only question I have is what looser has spent so much time to render that http://media.cellpassion.com/post/1475/lowres_nokrover.JPG and made a keyboard without Fn :D18:17
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wazdI wish I had his ability to model and render :(18:18
stskeeps_it might be far left18:18
wazdstskeeps_: there's shift18:18
stskeeps_zxc18:18
stskeeps_ah18:18
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stskeeps_either way, i love the keyboard and i want one18:18
stskeeps_:P18:18
wazdhave to lock myself in a room and learn modelling18:19
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JaffaMorning, all18:53
stskeeps_morning jaffa18:53
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wazdjaffa: heya18:58
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GAN800Jaffa, GTFO.19:26
stskeeps_O-o19:28
luke-jrLOL19:28
minrahttp://forum.openhandhelds.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&p=14799&sid=297b7c07b11d37b0e2952d0407398181#p1479919:34
minradosbox optimization19:34
GAN800:p19:36
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* stskeeps_ notes he really needs better scrum tools19:40
stskeeps_andre__: re #3858 i said was fixed in fremantle beta?19:43
andre__stskeeps_, you wrote "seems to be fixed", not "fixed" :-P19:45
stskeeps_ah19:45
stskeeps_:P19:45
andre__i forwarded your last comment to the internal ticket. but of course no answer yet... (but i started to simply reopen tickets when i don't get answers.)19:46
andre__(but this one is not closed internally)19:46
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Aquarinahi19:48
Aquarinajust got a new n810 (good for me, I know)19:49
stskeeps_congratulations :)19:49
Aquarinais there a problem with the mail client and google apps?19:49
Aquarinajust can't make it work!19:49
andre__define "problem"19:49
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stskeeps_i think there's a problem with mail client & everything, but that's me.19:49
stskeeps_alternatives include Claws19:49
Aquarinait stays there ando doesn't connect19:49
Aquarinai tested claws but for limited time19:50
andre__there are a few problems with google apps. tried last weekend and even got "your browser is not supported" by docs.google.com19:50
* GAN800 sighs at qole.19:50
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andre__default mail client worked more or less fine for me19:50
Aquarinahum... i did manage to edit simple stuff on docs though19:50
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* GAN800 Jaffa It's like he comes up with the helpful thing to say, then does exactly the opposite.19:51
stskeeps_ow19:51
* stskeeps_ pokes GAN800 19:51
Aquarinaandre__, have you got a gmail account?19:51
GAN800Stskeeps, see the Mer thing?19:51
andre__Aquarina, yes19:51
Aquarinahum...19:51
Aquarinait must be me then19:51
* GAN800 applauds virtual input. :/19:52
stskeeps_GAN800: he has the angle wrong really19:52
Aquarinaandre__, did you have to put in some special port configuration or something?19:52
GAN800http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=293724&postcount=6819:52
GAN800Nokia is encouraging Mer for a variety of reasons. None of them that conspiracy theoried.19:53
andre__Aquarina, do you get an error in Modest (the default email app)?19:53
Aquarinayes19:53
Aquarinai mean...19:53
Aquarinai can see no error, it just stays there doing nothing!19:53
Aquarina(I have to say, I use custom names for the G servers as I should in G apps19:54
Aquarina)19:54
andre__Aquarina, Incoming: imap.gmail.com, SSL (IMAP4S), Port 993. OutgoingL smtp.gmail.com, SSL, Port 46519:54
stskeeps_GAN800: ah, it's the complete opposite really of what qole says19:54
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Aquarinaandre__, exactly19:55
andre__ah, and SMTP Auth is set to "Login" here19:55
stskeeps_GAN800: i bet nokia would be more than thrilled to have their primary OS stuff developed in a community as long as they can differentiate in nice ways19:55
andre__Aquarina, hmm, works for me here, running the latest Diablo on an N810 :-/19:55
Aquarinaxcept i use imap.mydomain.com and smtp.mydomain.com19:55
stskeeps_and with all the dumps of fremantle code they can hardly be blamed for not developing in the open19:55
GAN800andre__, get my email?19:55
Aquarinathey're correctly cnamed to G servers19:55
Aquarinaandre__, I'm also running newest OS19:56
AquarinaI think19:56
GAN800First problem is that saying 'Nokia' in this context is too much of an oversimplification.19:56
Aquarinajust flashed it las week19:56
GAN800What Quim wants and what somebody else wants may not totally mesh19:57
Aquarinahum... just thinking...19:57
Aquarinacould it be ssl certificate that doesn't match?19:57
GAN800I see Mer as an excellent way of encouraging community platform participation where Maemo has typically failed.19:57
andre__GAN800, the template patch is on my todo list, yeah. if you refer to another email: no19:58
GAN800Yeah, that's the one.19:58
andre__yeah, some lag & Denmark backlog here... :-/19:59
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Aquarinais there any way to allow modest to accept wrong ssl certificate?20:02
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GAN800andre__, no worries, I didn't finish anything this sprint. ;)20:04
andre__heh. i'm also not where i wanted to be... :-/20:04
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GAN800At least I wont have to attend the sprint review. :D20:05
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Macerhm. wonder if this mb can read the DVD DL20:12
Macerwell. write it actually20:12
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fiferboylbt: ping?20:21
lbtheh20:21
lbtyour timing is lousy ;)20:21
lbtI was just about to go for a workout20:22
lbt(I need it!)20:22
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fiferboyTalk to you later!20:23
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lbtta... :)20:23
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Maceri hate crap that downloads so slowly20:37
JaffaGAN800: "GTFO"?20:37
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JaffaNext session time.20:39
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lopzhola20:41
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GAN800Jaffa, you said hi, so I said get the fuck out. :P20:59
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RST38hhmmmmmmmmm21:00
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wazdby the way21:06
wazdhttp://media.cellpassion.com/post/1475/lowres_nokrover.JPG21:06
wazdlook carefully at the statusbar21:06
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wazdAm I crazy or there are icons from OS 2007?21:06
wazdand on the left too21:06
stskeeps_you're right21:06
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Pavlovthat looks like a pretty poor photoshop job ;/21:07
RST38hit does look like Photoshop21:07
wazdphotoshop guy was slightly mad :)21:07
wazdRST38h: check it out :) http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/n900_31.jpg?w=650&h=48121:08
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Pavlovthe lighting on the keyboard is pretty inconsistent21:08
Pavlovon the whole thing, really21:08
Pavlovlighting is always the hardest part of photoshopping things ;/21:11
Macerwow21:11
Macerdavid carradine hung himself?21:11
Pavlovapparently21:11
Macerweird21:12
wazdnoway21:12
aquatixwazd: nice21:12
aquatixthat rover pic has some buttons on the left side it seems though21:13
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RST38hwazd: Stop teasing innocent people =)21:15
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RST38hMacer: yep. unfortunately :(21:15
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ShadowJKmaybe someone should do a photoshop/render that DOES have a d-pad, or one of those small joysticks that nokia had at one point on their phones21:16
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RST38hShadow: if this thing gets a dpad, that will most surely be on the back side21:17
RST38hShadow: opposite to the camera. makes camera zooming/light controls dead easy too21:17
lcukthis thread is useless without holo projectors21:17
mib_0glpxoHello, anybody known, is ther a problem with http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/merinstaller.install , i want to install Mer but this is not possible21:17
stskeeps_hmm, that's bad21:18
stskeeps_my server didn't restart21:18
ShadowJKhow about a picture of a "N910" showing file manager or home screen claiming 60-something GB free on /, or a N910 with pop-out mini-projector? :-)21:18
wazdmib_0glpxo: have you signed EULA with your blood? That could be a problem21:19
stskeeps_mib_0glpxo: i have a bit of issues with the server that merinstaller.install is on currently sadly21:19
RST38hShadow: And a blue symbian key glowing ominously!21:19
RST38hwazd: especially if he used a hamster as an inkwell21:20
RST38hEULA clearly says: YOUR OWN blood21:20
ShadowJKRST38h, my E75 doesn't have the blue symbian key anymore :-(21:20
mib_0glpxostskeeps_: ok, did you known how long it may take ?21:20
ShadowJKit does have a mini-N810-dpad though21:20
RST38hShadow: Horror! Does it at least have a home key?21:20
* RST38h absolutely hates n810 dpad21:20
ShadowJKRST38h, yeah. It's picture of a house21:21
RST38hAt LINE=26956/28556: R1[17]=0x5000 <> R2[17]=0x0 (PC=0x20051218)   <=== Am I good or what? :)21:21
ShadowJKwhat are you doing? :)21:21
RST38hShadow: Actually, reviewers welcomed the change of the picture21:22
stskeeps_mib_0glpxo: i'm going to fix it in DNS irght now sec21:22
RST38hShadow: Nobody could figure out what that blue thing was21:22
RST38hShadow: A binary translator21:22
mib_0glpxostskeeps_: thnx, i will try to install it later21:22
RST38hShadow: That is the output from the step-by-step execution verifier script, it basically says that everything up to line 26956 matches 100%21:23
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ShadowJKmatches with what..21:23
RST38hWith the original machine21:23
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GAN800Stskeeps, get it on maemo.org already.21:32
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stskeeps_ah21:32
stskeeps_yes21:32
stskeeps_something we can use garage for21:32
qwerty12_N810Aim higher. Extras[-devel] :p21:33
stskeeps_mmm21:33
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GAN800repository.maemo.org/mer21:39
stskeeps_we're actually kinda happy at opensuse for now21:40
stskeeps_for installer and such, maybe21:40
stskeeps_but that's another topic for some time21:40
lcuktechnically cant an obs build server exist within the maemo.org infrastructure itself21:40
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stskeeps_yeah, of course21:40
lcukwhich could also neatly get round the other issues you were mentioning21:41
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lcukwith limitations on opensuse building certain types of packages21:41
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hublcuk: the problem with OBS is that you have to "write" a .spec to make the .deb21:44
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hublcuk: albeit they seem to have an auto-import21:44
stskeeps_eh21:45
stskeeps_we just feed it dsc21:45
stskeeps_and it compiles with standard dpkg-buildpackage21:45
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lcukhub, thats not a big deal according to our onsite obs expert21:45
* lcuk has seen and heard of many packages being sent through the cleaners without an issue21:46
lcuki hope mine is one of them soon :)21:46
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stskeeps_GAN800: is it just me or is 2010 agenda not pulled out often enough?21:47
GAN800Probably21:47
stskeeps_(was my reply sane enough?)21:48
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Jaffawazd: Your Rover mockup has the wrong key layout (and the bora icons were pointed out ages ago ;-))21:52
wazdJaffa: my mockup is just redraw of the small one :)21:52
stskeeps_Jaffa: i think as to not upset marketing it might be good not to mock too much up :>21:53
fiferboylbt: re-ping?21:53
stskeeps_but heck, i would still buy one21:53
stskeeps_:P21:53
lbtah, good timing :)21:54
Jaffastskeeps_: ;-)21:54
lbtjust sat down21:54
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fiferboyGood timing cancels out the bad21:54
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lbteasily21:56
fiferboylbt: I'm having a weird problem with fingerscrolling, but I'm not sure if it is because of my changes or not21:56
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lbtwhat problem?21:57
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fiferboyWhen in AutoScroll the timer executes and stops properly shown by qDebug statements21:58
fiferboyBut when I scroll the list, and then grab the list while it is moving and scroll again, the timer never stops21:58
fiferboyTo be more accurate, qDebug shows a timer stopping, but then a second timer continuing and never stopping.21:58
lbtOK... I just copied over the lib21:59
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fiferboyI think a second timer is started when I do the grab, instead of using the already existing timer.21:59
lbtbut ut hangs21:59
fiferboylbt: Before the program initializes?21:59
lbtI've been writing docs all day... let me get this running21:59
lbtyes21:59
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GAN800Stskeeps, it needs more cowbell. :P22:00
fiferboylbt: I wonder if the problem that I fixed for my build (which wasn't a problem in your build) creates a problem for you22:00
* Jaffa goes to find some more freebies22:01
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stskeeps_GAN800: O_o?22:01
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lbtyep... I'm using your code...22:03
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stskeeps_'lo x29a22:04
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fiferboylbt: My changes to the intitliaztion problem I was having is to have the FingerScrollable property set like FingerScrollBars in QAbstractScrollAreaPrivateScroller22:06
Macerugh this is going to suck22:06
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Maceri need to quit using smbfs for stuff on my artigo22:07
fiferboylbt: Your comment in eventFiler looks like the question I have22:07
fiferboy/ Would it be safer to kill the kinetic timer or just let it die?22:07
Macermost importantly for the downloads part. it's killing me22:07
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lbtmm22:09
GAN800Stskeeps, sorry, I think I may be vaguely feverish here. :P22:09
stskeeps_GAN800: ah, :P22:10
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MacerThe recession has caused tax collections to plummet and the need for social services to soar.22:10
MacerIL congress tried to pass a 50% income tax increase here22:11
Macerthat is MASSIVE22:11
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Macerthey have to be on drugs22:11
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JamieBennettanyone experience with packaging want to help talk me through packaging up pysqlite?22:13
GAN800Taxes for their drug habits22:14
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GAN800Moblin phone is hilarity.22:14
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MacerSome 28 states have proposed cutting spending on higher education and personnel, while 27 want to reduce funding for K-12 education.22:15
Macerwow. they want to cut spending for public schooling :) they are even more nuts than theones who wanted the 50% tax increase22:16
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Maceryou NEVER reduce funding for education22:16
Firebird+1 for the tax increase22:16
Maceri don't understand this idealogy of rewarding failure that seems to strive here :)22:17
GAN800Stskeeps, you are aware of the cowbell sketch, though, right?22:17
mgedminhahaha22:17
* mgedmin has 'failure' in the list of irc hightlight words22:18
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RST38hthe list wants to tell you something...22:18
stskeeps_GAN800: not entirely22:18
Macerwell. i mean i'm just saying. "Dropped out of high school... don't want to get a job.. had 10 babies from 9 different fathers.... ok. here's section 8 and a link card so you don't have to do anything your entire life."22:18
stskeeps_GAN800: windows xp phone is worse22:18
stskeeps_2 hour uptime!22:18
GAN800Look it up! Christopher Walken.22:19
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stskeeps_ah. if it's walken, i might.22:19
RST38hMacer: This has to come with forced sterilization22:19
RST38hOtherwise, there is no sense doing it, indeed.22:19
Macersocial security is more "Oh. Ok. So you worked for 50 years of your life and didn't bother saving $10 a week and now you need more social security and medicare and medicaid in order to support you with your failed liver from drinking your money away? Oh.. ok no problem. Here you go. The 5th generation from this one can pay for it."22:20
fiferboylbt: Where are startTimer() and killTimer() defined?22:20
lbtQObject I think22:20
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MacerRST38h: haha22:20
lbthttp://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/qobject.html#startTimer22:20
RST38hMacer: in 20-30 years your view of social security will change.22:20
MacerRST38h: yeah. of course it will. because i won't be getting any of it :)22:21
RST38hPlease come back then and tell us all what you think =)22:21
RST38hMacer: If I remember correctly, social security is relatively easy to fix22:21
Macerhahaha.. i would say "well. i am sure glad i saved my money from when i was 21. i guess i will use this cheap sorry ass social security check to order some pizzas for the grandkids."22:21
RST38hMacer: Will cost more taxes but not a lot22:21
RST38hMacer: The real problem is medicare/medicaid22:22
fiferboylbt: Thanks22:22
Macersocial security is screwed up too22:22
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* stskeeps_ hugs his socialist country22:22
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Maceri don't want to pay it . i want my social security money. i think it would be safer if i had it22:22
RST38hMacer: It may be, but fixing it is doable22:22
Maceri wonder if you can ask to do that22:22
JamieBennetttrying to upload pysqlite and it says I need to upload the .changes file, I don't have one with this package, any ideas?22:22
x29astskeeps_: whatup? im now officially naked22:23
MacerRST38h: and everybody preaches national healthcare .. do you know the kind of chaos that would create?22:23
x29ajust sold my n81022:23
Maceri think it's bad enough we have medicaid/medicare22:23
RST38hMacer: You can always move to Russia, 13% flat tax on residents22:23
stskeeps_x29a: not much, i got a n810 from nokia :P22:23
stskeeps_do you miss yours? :P22:23
RST38hMacer: employer pays social security22:23
MacerRST38h: i think i will to tell you the truth22:23
Macer:)22:23
MacerRST38h: screw social security22:23
Maceri would rather stick that money into my savings acct22:23
RST38hMacer: Of course, you will get ~$1500..$3000 a month in salary =)22:24
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Macerthe cost of living is probably a little lower22:24
Macerbut i think you're right. i'm going to move to another country if i can22:25
Maceri'm sick of the US22:25
Macernobody has a job so they can't fund their pork projects22:25
Macerso they hike up taxes 50% just so they can plant some trees in a state park. it's really bad.22:25
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Macerwe sure are in a sad state of affairs22:26
JamieBennettdo you change the maintainer field in the debian/control file to your own or leave it as the original package?22:27
mikkov_JamieBennett: if you made any changes, change it22:28
JamieBennettmikkov_ Just packaging up and changed the debian/control file. Its complaining on the build about the original authors sign key not being available22:29
mikkov_that counts as a change. you can generally ignore signing warnings22:31
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JamieBennettmikkov_ Thanks22:31
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mikkov_JamieBennett: change the package version too22:32
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JamieBennettis it just be or are the instructions for building a little confusing at times. The web based uploaded says upload the .changes file from the package directory, I look for a .changes file (literally) and don't find one. Its _packagename_-version-something.changes. Doh!22:33
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parigaudihi22:34
JamieBennettmikkov_ Change the standards-version in the control file?22:34
GAN800Macer, don't kid yourself. It may suck, but we're WAY better off.22:35
JamieBennettmikkov_ What if my version number conflicts with the next upstream version number?22:35
parigaudion a  new n810, the first thing the device asks for when powered up is the language.  is there any way to have the language set to English without having 12-hou clock format (but 24h instead)?22:36
mikkov_JamieBennett: don't change standards-version22:36
mikkov_JamieBennett: what's the current package version?22:36
JamieBennettmikkov_ 2.5.5-122:37
mikkov_JamieBennett: so new package version would be 2.5.5-1maemo122:37
JamieBennettmikkov_ makes sense22:37
mikkov_next upstream would be 2.5.5-222:37
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fiferboylbt: Fixed the timer issue, but it brings up another minor issue22:38
lbtwhat did you do?22:38
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fiferboyIf the scrollarea is in overshoot during the first timer interrupt, things get wierd.22:39
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fiferboyI added a variable to store the timer_id, and do a check before starting a new timer.22:39
* GAN800 sighs at "Unsatisfied with bugs.maemo.org"22:39
fiferboyIf the timer_id is not 0, I kill the timer before starting a new one.22:39
lbtshouldn't be needed22:41
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lbtThis is probably wrong : if (scrollState == AutoScroll and xScrollState == NotScrolling and yScrollState == NotScrolling) {22:41
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stskeeps_GAN800: if you're interested in some non-head-bashing work in mer, i'm sure we can find something that won't have you bash your head against the wall constantly :P22:42
lbtI suspect : if (xScrollState == NotScrolling and yScrollState == NotScrolling) {22:42
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fiferboyI'll give it a try22:44
JamieBennettmikkov_ Thanks for you help, its in the build queue now. Whats the betting it fails though ;)22:44
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fiferboylbt: That works22:52
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lbtgood22:52
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lbtcan you work on getting your git and svn in sync fiferboy... need to be able to break these patches down a bit23:00
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fiferboylbt: I'm working from svn for now, since the version matches that on my tablet and the hildon patches aren't in gitorious yet23:02
lbttrue23:03
lbtI'm doing the property thing differently though23:03
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fiferboyAre you working from the gitorious repo?23:04
lbtonly for fingerscrolling23:04
lbtit's a bit of a mess atm23:04
lbtgnuton said he was going to push RSN23:05
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fiferboyOnce everything is in gitorious I'll switch over to that23:05
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parigaudican i use my N810 usb cable as a network connection to my linux pc? if so, how?23:15
stskeeps_look at USB networking23:16
stskeeps_http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking23:16
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parigaudiok thx23:18
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plokSomeone here got decent sound with mer 0.13? It sounds really distorted here on a n81023:20
stskeeps_define decent sound23:20
stskeeps_we got alsa working but that's obviously not perfect23:20
qwerty12_N810Someone should add http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php to the windows part (nokia built kernel with rndis fix)23:21
stskeeps_Meiz_n810: did sound work in 0.13?23:21
stskeeps_qwerty12_N810: wow, they did?23:21
stskeeps_plok: used the /Sound guide?23:21
plokstskeeps_: Yes, i used that one23:21
Meiz_n810stskeeps_: only if osso-dsp-loader is installed from the old repo23:21
plokstskeeps_: only with mpd the sound is really distorted23:22
Meiz_n810it's documented in the wiki23:22
stskeeps_plok: k - volume may be a factor i guess23:22
qwerty12_N810stskeeps_: yep, not included with diablo but available to flash separately :)23:22
plokhehe, yes i spend an hour with alsamixer trying all the combinations23:22
fiferboylbt: I sent you some new files with cleanups and bug fixes23:22
stskeeps_plok: .. you don't have pulseaudio coding experience do you? :)23:22
lbt'k thanks :)23:23
fiferboyNP.  Have you been able to run it yet?23:23
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plokhehe, no only alsa23:23
lbtplok: want a learning opportunity?23:23
stskeeps_damnit :P we have a omap2-dsp pulseaudio plugin but it needs a bit of updating to work with latest pulseaudio23:23
lbtfiferboy: no....23:23
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stskeeps_plok: http://gitorious.org/~elmarco/pulseaudio/pa-work/commit/d92f79b8efe591a4dc184ed803859bcdf7173b4623:24
qwerty12_N810plok: in Maemo, libao with ao.conf = alsa09 made mpd work w/out distorted sound23:24
plokhehe, i can take a look into it, but it will not be untill next week (trying hard to graduate before summer :p)23:24
stskeeps_heh, i'm trying to graduate in general, heh23:24
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plokqwerty12_N810: thanks :D23:32
stskeeps_did the trick?23:32
ploki hope to find out in a few minutes :)23:33
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Meiz_n810qwerty12_N810: it is nice to have a hw-keyboard? :P23:33
qwerty12_N810Meiz_n810, certainly :P23:34
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yigalwould someone be willing to give me a suggestion as to which OS I should install on my n800 I a slightly messed up Diablo but maybe I should try Mer?23:34
Macerwell. guess my damn macbook doesn't burn DL discs23:34
yigal8gb SD23:34
Meiz_n810timeless timed out23:35
yigalMacer: really23:35
yigalMacer: that's sucky23:35
timeless_mbp_Meiz_n810: pong23:35
Maceryigal: yah it is especially since i need to burn an osx dvd23:35
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Macerleopard dvd is like 7G so i have to convert it to an iso and burn it in nero on a win box23:35
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Macerwhat really sucks is that i can't go down there right now so i'm converting it over wifi.. this is going to take forever.23:36
timeless_mbpMeiz_n810: i upgraded my g5 from 10.3.9 to 10.5.623:36
Macerhaha23:36
Macerthat's a pretty big upgrade :)23:36
yigalno apple for me, but I understand the allure23:36
timeless_mbpand now ethernet doesn't work23:36
Maceri was going to install it on a shuttle K4523:36
Meiz_n810timeless_mdp: g5?23:37
Macerhttp://mobile.osnews.com/story.php/2156423:37
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MacerG5 is awesome23:37
Maceri wish i had one23:37
Maceri miss ppc :(23:37
timeless_mbpyep23:37
Meiz_n810g5 has something to do with apple right?23:37
Macerplus they had sexy cases23:37
Macerbut i always thought ppc was better than x86 :-\23:38
* Meiz_n810 has no idea what's going on23:38
MacerG5 was apple's higher end stuff a while back that used a ppc cpu23:39
Macerthey're still pretty strong even today. i should buy one on ebay or something23:39
timeless_mbpyep23:39
locutusG5 is slow by modern standards23:39
locutusdog slow :P23:39
Macerlocutus: heh. depends on how you look at it.23:40
Maceri would easily be able to tolerate it :)23:40
Maceri'd still love to have one23:40
locutusoh, i could argue that my 90MHz. 68060 Amiga is Fast by modern standards then23:40
Macerno but it is probably as fast as PCs that came out 4 years after it :)23:42
locutus'haha'23:42
* locutus points to the Core i7 on his desktop23:42
Macerdo they call them "Core i7" ?23:42
Maceri would argue that the ppc arch goes faster than comparable x86 arch23:44
Macermeaning a G5 would probably do certain things 30% faster than a comparable x86 based pc at the time23:44
Meiz_n810Macer: 200MHz ppc does some performance tests 20x faster than 1.5GHz Celeron23:46
Meiz_n810but Celeron is a piece of **** anyway23:47
locutusMacer: how does that matter now?23:48
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locutusalso, even back then the G5 wasnt exactly competitive :-/23:48
locutus(why am i argueing this, this is retarded)23:48
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Macerlocutus: i don't know either. i just like G5s and would like to have one :)23:52
locutusi dont see the point with having one now?23:52
Macerto each their own ;)23:52
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Maceri don't even like osx all that much haha23:53
timeless_mbpok, apple care got my mac to talk to its network interface :)23:54
Macerbut i think i do like it more than windows and less thatn some X wms23:54
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Macera wii is just a G4 :)23:54
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JamieBennettanyone know where python.mk is installed from (I don't seem to have it)23:59
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