IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-05-28

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Myrtti	♥ I llooooooove this	00:19
chx	hi. my Nokia N810 arrived. wooohoo	00:19
zakkm	chx: congrats	00:20
Jaffa	Myrtti: mer?	00:20
zakkm	chx: did you own an older tablet?	00:21
Myrtti	Jaffa: xournal on maemo	00:21
chx	nope.	00:21
chx	my first tablet.	00:21
zakkm	oh cool congrats	00:22
Sts\|office	chx: congrats!	00:22
zakkm	looks nice eh?	00:22
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zakkm	chx: do you know how to check version on the tablet?	00:22
chx	zakkm: not yet.	00:22
chx	zakkm: its charging atm	00:22
zakkm	very important to update, if its not at the newest	00:23
chx	zakkm: after that, OS refresh and Drupal. First things first.	00:23
zakkm	drupal.. like server drupal?	00:23
zakkm	http+sql and running drupal?	00:23
chx	Yes	00:23
chx	I am the SQLite maintainer (among other things) of Drupal 7	00:24
rm_you	port-a-wiki :P	00:24
zakkm	is it going to be for personal use, or like business use?	00:24
chx	Challenging question	00:24
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zakkm	cause to honest if its not going to be for personal.. gentoo or mer might be better cause you'd have the larger repository and such	00:24
chx	If I code Drupal is that personal or simple madness :p ?	00:24
zakkm	heh	00:25
chx	I mean, who else codes Drupal on an N810?	00:25
zakkm	nobody i think	00:25
chx	but there are those times when you are on a bus	00:25
chx	wasted time that could be used for patching.	00:25
zakkm	i wouldnt get a tablet for drupal though ;p	00:25
zakkm	i would get a laptop	00:25
zakkm	like coding	00:26
coldboot	I sincerely doubt programming on any mobile device is any fun.	00:26
coldboot	I tried to do it years ago on my Palm Vx.	00:26
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chx	oh i have laptops.	00:26
chx	sure.	00:26
jeremiah_	You can do it though, if you want to. The N810 makes it possible.	00:27
chx	Yes!!	00:27
Jaffa	Ask lcuk	00:27
jeremiah_	It has a bash shell	00:27
chx	another, business use is SSH from the road.	00:27
zakkm	lcuk codes on tablet?	00:27
jeremiah_	chx: It has ssh.	00:27
chx	which is also quite important, i must say.	00:27
zakkm	chx: theres openssh server and client in repository	00:27
chx	good, client is enough.	00:27
zakkm	very nicely done	00:27
Jaffa	zakkm: He used to, directly, IIRC	00:27
jeremiah_	You don't type that fast while coding so I don't see why it shouldn't work.	00:28
jeremiah_	If you get used to the screen, it isn't that bad.	00:28
chx	well, first we needed SQLite	00:28
jeremiah_	I tried coding on an Acer One and that was a pain in the ass.	00:29
chx	I somewhat doubt i want MySQL server.	00:29
jeremiah_	Keys were too small.	00:29
chx	small keys are better than no keys	00:29
jeremiah_	chx: SQLite should not be that hard to port.	00:29
zakkm	chx: sqlite wouldnt in maemo repositories i think , would have to find a extra one with it	00:29
rm_you	yeah sqlite is native	00:29
rm_you	i used it in barcode	00:29
rm_you	is in extras	00:29
chx	and i rather not carry a laptop to the gym	00:29
chx	inconivinient	00:29
zakkm	carry a bag to the gym dont you?	00:30
jeremiah_	chx: What else do you need aside from SQLite for drupal?	00:30
chx	yeah but thats full with clothes.	00:30
chx	jeremiah_: SSH and GPS	00:30
zakkm	apache should do?	00:30
jeremiah_	chx: You should be all set.	00:30
rm_you	there are two different versions of sqlite that are in extras and elsewhere i think, and need to be careful because they use entirely incompatable DB formats :P	00:30
zakkm	theres lighttpd somewhere if you can use that	00:30
chx	I have a stellar GPS receiver	00:30
chx	i heard even nginx is ported	00:30
zakkm	yes it is	00:30
coldboot	Blackberry is really good at ssh.	00:30
zakkm	ive used nginx on tablet	00:30
zakkm	wasnt aware it supported sql though?	00:31
coldboot	I used it to control the lights in my house before I wrote a webapp to do it.	00:31
chx	I only see http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/nginx/ and 2006	00:31
jeremiah_	Why would one use a web server on the tablet? I presume it is just for testing and development.	00:31
chx	jeremiah_: automated lifeblog	00:31
jeremiah_	heh	00:31
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jeremiah_	Why not. :)	00:31
zakkm	i dont know why anybody would buy a NIT to code on it ;p	00:32
chx	well	00:32
chx	i bought the N810 to have something to SSH from	00:32
chx	the rest follows.	00:32
Jaffa	jeremiah_: fpp gave a really good presentation at the last summit on using a web server in Python as the environment on which he wrote all his little utils. Gives him the flexibility to have moved them with him from a Psion through a Zaurus to a NIT	00:32
chx	I expect to code a lot more on it than SSH	00:32
zakkm	chx: ipods support openssh server and client.	00:32
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zakkm	heh	00:32
chx	now, listen	00:33
* chx takes a deep breath		00:33
chx	ok so Apple rants aside, there is no keyboard	00:33
wazd	mama I'm gonna be your slave!	00:33
wazd	all day long :)	00:33
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zakkm	i dont know, i dont have a n810, got a n800 but i would think sshing from the tablet would be inconvinent and get annoying	00:34
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chx	zakkm: where can i find nginx for os2008?	00:39
zakkm	you get the one for 2007.	00:39
zakkm	it works fine	00:39
zakkm	or you can add maemo hackers chinook repo	00:40
zakkm	chx: goto http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php on tablet.. at right side search nginx .. and then click the "click to install"	00:40
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zakkm	it has php and such in that repository too	00:41
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chx	oh wow	00:41
* chx bookmarks		00:41
Jaffa	Though be careful of using gronmayer too much. Temptation can be a dangerous thing ;-)	00:42
zakkm	yeah	00:42
zakkm	dont use gronmayer much elsewhere	00:42
zakkm	old repositories, adding much will really hurt	00:42
lbt	yeah... you want Mer... and the whole Universe opens up....	00:42
lbt	;)	00:42
jeremiah_	Yeah, no keyboard is a no go. ENOKEYBOARD	00:42
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jeremiah_	EDUMBAPPLE	00:42
zakkm	lbt: be easy on chx, first tablet just arrived	00:42
lbt	excuse me whilst I apt-get install slapd	00:42
chx	isnt it a problem taht the repo is for chinook?	00:43
lbt	if he's rooted it then he's ready	00:43
chx	i thought the latest os... is... diablo?	00:43
zakkm	Chx: it is	00:43
* lbt chuckles		00:43
zakkm	but for nginx its fine	00:43
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zakkm	dont go adding chinook repositories though normally	00:43
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chx	and becomeroot?	00:45
zakkm	get that	00:45
Jaffa	chx: there's a rootsh or easyroot in maemo.org Extras	00:45
Jaffa	Same functionality; better repo	00:46
qwerty12_N800	~root-access	00:46
infobot	somebody said root-access was http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access	00:46
zakkm	Chx: you should enable extras repository	00:46
chx	sure	00:46
zakkm	dang windowss i hate it !	00:46
zakkm	i need to use virtualbox to run windows for something :(	00:46
qwerty12_N800	Hmm, I should edit that page with a link to rootsh's .install file.	00:47
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chx	why do i want root,lol	00:48
* chx thinks this page is written for non-linux people.		00:48
chx	i have a loooooooong linux history back to pre 1.0	00:49
zakkm	pre 1.0?	00:49
zakkm	of linux kernel you mean?	00:49
coldboot	Does anyone here build armel targets in scratchbox 2?	00:52
coldboot	If so, what's the comparative speed between building for i386 and armel targets for you?	00:52
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zakkm	armel should be faster	00:55
coldboot	zakkm: Are you sure?	00:56
coldboot	zakkm: Because I'm building on an Intel machine.	00:56
vhogemann	Hi there... I'm looking forward flashing Mer on my n800. Do I NEED a SDCard, or can I just overwrite the internal storage?	00:57
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StsN800	internal flash is experimental - sd more tested	01:02
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chx	this is strange. the Nokia OS2008 has 4.2008.43-14 while my tablet has 5.2008.43-7	01:02
StsN800	bbl sleep	01:02
zakkm	4. 5.	01:02
zakkm	the first numbers ;p	01:02
zakkm	43-7 is the newest	01:02
vhogemann	StsN800, thx for the info	01:02
chx	thanks.	01:03
coldboot	zakkm: I'm pretty sure the armel target should build either at the same speed or slower.	01:03
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chx	I have so many questions :) there is a wimax advertisment on the main screen. did i score accidntally a wimax tablet , lol?	01:03
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chx	how can i check?	01:04
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coldboot	chx: I get that too, it's just there.	01:09
chx	ah	01:09
chx	pity, lol	01:09
chx	http://www.skype.com/download/skype/nokia/ d'oh no newer Skype than this 2007 one? Skype does not love Linux.	01:10
wazd	шт афсе еруку шы туц	01:10
wazd	oh	01:10
wazd	in fact there is new	01:10
coldboot	Yeah Skype makes some pretty bad shit for Linux.	01:10
coldboot	It leaks memory and unnecessarily hits the disk.	01:10
wazd	I've just accidently installed skype and it looked new for me :)	01:10
chx	wazd: Release date: December 19, 2007. <= new???	01:10
zakkm	thats when they came out with it	01:11
zakkm	not the newest version ;p	01:11
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Jaffa	rmt_: I've patched out the call to g_regex - it's only in the GIR processing, so might not be needed	01:20
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rmt_	Cool.	01:25
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chx	zakkm: so how do i set up nginx after i installed it?	01:27
zakkm	Chx: ive only installed it and ran it	01:27
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zakkm	ive never configured or anything	01:27
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till-	does anyone here has nokia/ovi account and is able to log in right now?	01:28
zakkm	its the same as ubuntu	01:28
zakkm	chx: http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-install-nginx-webserver-in-ubuntu-804-hardy-heron.html	01:28
zakkm	use apt-get though not aptitude	01:28
zakkm	chx: the tablet is "debian"	01:28
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chx	ok ok	01:36
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Jaffa	rmt_: armel build for vala 0.7.3-maemo1 has gone through, so assume x86 build OK as well. Testers very welcome - should be in extras-devel soon(ish)	01:46
* Jaffa beds now, since work tomorrow.		01:47
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Myrtti	I ♥ N800	01:53
Myrtti	sniif	01:53
chx	this is sick	01:54
chx	i have php runnin on N810	01:54
vhogemann	Witch one is better Tear, Midori or Webkit for MicroB?	01:54
chx	with pdo_sqlite LOOL!	01:55
chx	Drupal is the next	01:55
zakkm	vhogemann: Tear is the best browser for maemo imo	01:55
vhogemann	Well, I can have both Tear and Webkit for MicroB. Since both use the same webkitlib, right?	01:56
qwerty12_N800	yep, but use Bundyo's builds of libwebkit - they're much newer	01:57
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chx	i must tell you my favourite anecdote about what is a server	01:57
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chx	our university got a server from a Swiss one, they thrown it out it was too old, so we got it for the low , low price of 50 000 CHF	01:58
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chx	when they switched it on , it killed electricity in the whole district and they needed to dig up the street to get a new mains for it	01:58
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chx	and now, this Nokia N810 is more powerful than that VAX 9000 was :D	01:58
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chx	just awesome	01:59
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jaska	a vax9k would kill you if you got hit with it tho	01:59
chx	that would be a superhero movie	02:00
locutus	hmmm	02:00
locutus	i dont have a 9k	02:00
chx	lifting a VAX 9000? :p	02:00
locutus	but i do have a VAX7000	02:00
locutus	i think my 7000 is slightly faster then my Nokia	02:00
jaska	forklift \o/	02:00
locutus	and beats it pantsdown in I/O obviously	02:01
jaska	only have a vaxstation 3100m76 spx, you can carry it with one hand :)	02:01
locutus	a VAX7000 is faster then a VAX9000 btw	02:01
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Bobbe	lol for the electricity kill story	02:05
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Bobbe	I remember this teacher at University talking about how they went out for beers to celebrate that their server had 2kb of Ram insted of 1	02:06
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Macer	hm	02:08
Macer	copying the last batch of wii games over :)	02:08
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chx	Macer: wii? on Nokia N810??????????	02:12
Macer	haha	02:17
Macer	i wish	02:17
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Macer	no. it's an actual wii :)	02:17
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chx	oh i see	02:18
chx	i know the wiimote is working with the n810	02:18
Macer	haha	02:19
Macer	wtf? :)	02:19
chx	of course a 400mhz ARM Is no match for the PowerPC 750 @ 729 MHz	02:19
chx	Macer: yeah	02:20
chx	http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2008/05/wiicontrol-for-nokia-n810-n800.html	02:20
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chx	no shit? dosbox is ported????	02:21
zakkm	Chx: lol	02:21
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chx	hey	02:22
chx	i am oldskool	02:22
Myrtti	god I love xournal ♥	02:22
chx	is there a Spectrum emulator :P ?	02:22
zakkm	ZX?	02:22
zakkm	should be	02:22
chx	yes there IS!	02:23
qwerty12_N800	yeah, speccy	02:23
Macer	a spectrum analyzer? :)	02:23
chx	speccy yes.	02:23
chx	this is really sick, lol	02:23
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Macer	they show the guy playing doom with the wii mote :)	02:23
Macer	nice to see that the n800 has those awesome groundbreaking games :)	02:24
zakkm	chx: has gba emulation too running nicely ;p	02:24
chx	Horace and the Spiders!	02:24
zakkm	and nes	02:24
chx	:D	02:24
Macer	zakkm: haha	02:24
zakkm	ohh scuumvm too 100%	02:24
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Bobbe	anyone got sound running nicely on the vgba?	02:25
zakkm	sound isnt going okay for you?	02:25
chx	i thought i was kidding but http://www.worldofspectrum.org/infoseekid.cgi?id=0002350 actually no.	02:26
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* chx feels 25 years younger.		02:26
Bobbe	I dunno if it's a general thing, I only tested FFT Advance, which is a heavy game	02:26
Bobbe	but it didn't feel like the whole sounds were there	02:26
zakkm	does it stutter or you dont hear sound at all?	02:26
Bobbe	kinda blurry sound	02:26
Bobbe	it stutters	02:26
zakkm	yeahh cpu then	02:26
Bobbe	yeah, stutters is better.	02:26
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Bobbe	anything I can do?	02:26
zakkm	you can go into config and change khz see if that helps	02:27
Bobbe	I tried lots of different modes and all	02:27
zakkm	lower quality sound, but it might not stutter (less cpu depedent)	02:27
zakkm	do you play with tablet in performance mode?	02:27
zakkm	or ondemand?	02:27
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Bobbe	I used to play with performance mode	02:30
Bobbe	but I reflashed	02:30
Bobbe	what's the echo command again?	02:31
zakkm	Bobbe: no idea, i have it in "settings" as a button	02:31
zakkm	onesec	02:31
zakkm	advanced-power applet has it too if you have that?	02:32
Bobbe	echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor	02:32
Bobbe	is this it?	02:32
qwerty12_N800	yep	02:32
Bobbe	thx	02:32
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qwerty12_N800	Was about to paste that after getting to it from tab-completion :)	02:33
Bobbe	google is life, google is love	02:33
z4chh	amen	02:33
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Bobbe	lol	02:33
Bobbe	how do I change the khz? It only gives me 'render sound well' or 'render sound fast'	02:34
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chx	google is your friend. and your slave :p	02:34
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Bobbe	geez, ppl sometimes just don't get it	02:35
Bobbe	some guy around here named his wifi ssid with his cell phone number	02:36
Bobbe	his network is CELXXXX-XXXX	02:36
GAN800	Call him and ask him if his refridgerator is running.	02:36
Bobbe	lmao	02:37
Bobbe	he'll probably ask if I knew he had a refrigerador from his wi-fi	02:38
Bobbe	refrigerator	02:38
* Bobbe thinking in Portuguese there		02:38
chx	why its a prob if the ssid is my cell?	02:38
chx	i see no probs with htat	02:38
Bobbe	broadcasting your cell phone number to everybody in a 30m radius, in an apartment building?	02:39
GAN800	Could be a way to meet women. ;)	02:40
zakkm	GAN800: over wifi names, nahh :)	02:40
Macer	lol	02:40
Macer	1080p purple rain!	02:40
Macer	hahaa	02:40
Macer	classic	02:40
GAN800	770 got me a phpne number once.	02:40
Bobbe	GAN800, er... how	02:40
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Bobbe	Macer, that's ok man. No one's judging ;P	02:41
GAN800	Sitting in the student union eating lunch and browsing the web, she came up and asked about it and we got to talking.	02:41
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zakkm	heh	02:42
Bobbe	it happened to me to, now that I think of it	02:42
zakkm	GAN800: and herr wassss Mrs. Antilles :P	02:42
Bobbe	she had an aao	02:43
zakkm	and her name was*	02:43
GAN800	N800 hasn't been nearly as successful	02:43
GAN800	mostly working professionals at airports.	02:43
GAN800	zakkm, my future ex-wife. ;)	02:43
Bobbe	lol	02:44
zakkm	future ex-wife.. you plan to marry her than divorce?	02:44
zakkm	then*	02:44
Bobbe	er... guys	02:44
GAN800	A phrase you may not have heard before.	02:44
Bobbe	what is this kernel with high speed sd support	02:44
GAN800	Joke. ;)	02:44
zakkm	ah	02:44
GAN800	outpo.st/rotate	02:44
zakkm	is that any good? should i install that too?	02:44
zakkm	have a class 6 sdhc for /	02:45
Bobbe	so maemo doesn't currently use my class 6 sdhc features?	02:45
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Bobbe	me 2 zakkm	02:45
GAN800	Class 6 is good	02:45
zakkm	GAN800: should we both install that?	02:45
timeless_mbp	hey	02:45
timeless_mbp	what's the weather supposed to be like this weekend?	02:46
GAN800	But the HS kernel has the potential to make things marginally faster	02:46
GAN800	timeless, where? :p	02:46
* timeless_mbp finally found passport and can now pack for flight which leaves in a couple of hours		02:46
GAN800	zakkm, there are potential instability issues	02:46
timeless_mbp	CPH :)	02:46
GAN800	Ah, right.	02:46
Bobbe	GAN800, and potential speed gains...?	02:47
timeless_mbp	rain today and sunday	02:47
timeless_mbp	50-65... i guess that means jeans?	02:47
GAN800	Bobbe, marginal to decent.	02:47
Bobbe	I see, thanks	02:48
Bobbe	and it's quite a shitload of work to reflash the kernel	02:48
GAN8001	timeless_mbp, what, you guys don't have spandex uniforms?	02:48
GAN8001	You're going to look mighty silly next to the Mer guys. ;)	02:48
timeless_mbp	GAN8001: um, i do	02:48
* timeless_mbp was a cyclist in the states		02:48
Bobbe	or not, it's just a command	02:48
* Bobbe confused		02:48
GAN8001	Bobbe, really simple	02:49
GAN8001	You can do it from on-device even.	02:49
zakkm	its just a command.	02:49
GAN8001	~flasher	02:49
infobot	flasher is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher	02:49
zakkm	GAN800: does the device only have one kernel, even if you do clone to sd?	02:49
zakkm	does clone to sd clone kernel too?	02:49
* GAN8001 contemplates cleaning up the unread Talk threads.		02:49
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GAN8001	zakkm, yes.	02:49
GAN8001	It's on a partition on the NAND	02:50
GAN8001	You can kexec though.	02:50
zakkm	so if i install this kernel .. it will be for jffs2 and cloned to sd?	02:50
zakkm	do i need the patched xserver too?	02:50
zakkm	jan 2008, seems old	02:50
Bobbe	zakkm, what is jan2008?	02:52
GAN8001	Everything uses the same kernel	02:52
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zakkm	the patched xserver	02:52
GAN8001	zakkm, last Diablo update shipped in December. . . . :\	02:52
zakkm	yeah	02:52
zakkm	so should we get the patched xserver, or leave the normal maemo one	02:52
zakkm	dec 2008 though? wasnt it?	02:52
zakkm	yeah	02:53
zakkm	patched xserver - jan 2008 .... 43-7 = december 2008 .. and 43-7 came with a better xserver didnt it?	02:53
zakkm	like xserveer improvements	02:53
GAN8001	The outpo.st kernel is the 43-7 kernel	02:55
zakkm	no	02:55
zakkm	the "patched xserver"	02:55
zakkm	not kernel	02:56
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GAN8001	Yes, the xserver was patched in 43-7	02:56
zakkm	the outpo site has a xserver link too	02:56
zakkm	should that be installed to replace the maemo one?	02:56
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* timeless_mbp ponders		02:57
timeless_mbp	so... do i take a jacket which has a passport pocket, or a jacket which has an iPod pocket and a rain hood? (I need my passport, I don't care about iPods, although it does hold my cell phone)	02:58
zakkm	take both :D	02:58
qwerty12_N800	don both	02:59
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timeless_mbp	melting isn't really on my todo list :)	03:00
zakkm	its in mine for you :P	03:00
zakkm	nah uhh	03:00
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timeless_mbp	X-Fade: ping	03:08
timeless_mbp	Warning: Unknown property 'displan'. Declaration dropped.	03:08
timeless_mbp	Source File: https://garage.maemo.org/account/login.php?return_to=%2Fmy%2F	03:08
timeless_mbp	Line: 257	03:08
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timeless_mbp	what's a displan and why does garage think any CSS UAs will support it?	03:08
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EdLin	sorry about the joins/parts, something seems wrong with my client	03:10
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GAN8001	lol: "3:30PM Walt: If Symbian is so great, why do you have Maemo? OP: I've got many... let's look at this demo. N97. I think it's very impressive."	03:19
GAN8001	I love that tactic in dodging a question in interviews.	03:20
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Bobbe	who is Walt?	03:26
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GAN8001	Bobbe, guy from Engadget doing interviews, I guess.	03:27
GAN8001	http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/27/nokia-ceo-olli-pekka-kallasvuo-live-at-d7/	03:27
Bobbe	timestamps are decreasing, but the text is top to bottom, is that right?	03:31
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zakkm	Bobbe: you read it bottom to top	03:32
zakkm	i believe	03:32
GAN8001	^	03:33
GAN8001	Confusing.	03:33
GAN8001	They should do it opposite of their normal reporting direction.	03:33
Macer	blah. no more ncis episodes	03:33
Macer	sucks	03:33
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aspect	looks like you read between timestamps top->bottom, but traverse the timestamps bottom to top	03:40
Bobbe	It's confusing. I never know what is comment, who's talking, damn, just gimme the mp3	03:40
aspect	I'm not sure what order you're supposed to look at the pictures though :)	03:40
* aspect keeps reading "Walt" as "Wait" .. seems like a really eager interviewer		03:41
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GAN8001	Ah, penguinbait: always keeping it civil and productive.	03:46
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penguinbait	seen any neat phones lately?	04:09
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Macer	penguinbait: G1? :)	04:26
* Macer hides under a rock		04:26
penguinbait	and they say I stir up trouble ;)	04:27
Macer	haha	04:27
Bobbe	lol	04:28
Bobbe	wow	04:28
Macer	sorry. i'm losing my faith in symbian	04:28
Bobbe	the new skyfire is A LOT better	04:28
Macer	waiting around for johnxx to see how well mer is workign on a wii	04:28
Macer	i'm playing buly	04:30
Macer	bully	04:30
Macer	funny shit haha	04:30
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Bobbe	penguinbait, just saw you recommend Console-tools to a user on tmo. Is it console-tools, install-tools, pbeasy? Honestly, I did it manually cause I didn't know which would work with 43-7. That's pbeasy, right?	04:33
zakkm	install-tools = really old.. cant use it anymore	04:34
Bobbe	tought so	04:34
zakkm	console-tools has pbeasy + fdisk and such	04:34
Bobbe	console-tools = more recent, but is not supported in 43-7	04:34
zakkm	console-tools isnt?	04:34
Bobbe	ahhhhhhhhhhhhh	04:34
penguinbait	sorry yes, zakkm is correct	04:34
zakkm	install-tools isnt supported by 43-7.. but console-tools is	04:34
Bobbe	that's what I read somewhere in 43-7	04:34
Bobbe	okay, must have read wrong then	04:34
Bobbe	s/in 43-7/in tmo	04:35
zakkm	whats tmo?	04:35
penguinbait	I never updated install tools for 43-7, I created console-tools	04:35
penguinbait	talk.maemo.org	04:36
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zakkm	penguinbait, love your old kde358 :)	04:36
penguinbait	I really cant want for faster hardware and more ram	04:36
b-man16	hello, penguinbait :)	04:37
penguinbait	If the make the screen smaller though, its not going to be pretty	04:37
penguinbait	hey bman	04:37
zakkm	penguinbait: why is the link disabled for your boot to kde instead of hildon	04:37
zakkm	i wanted to try that out	04:37
penguinbait	I need to update the deb, it will put you into a boot loop if you do it on latest versions	04:37
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zakkm	oh	04:38
zakkm	okayy ;p	04:38
zakkm	i thought you did it for some bandwidth reason or something	04:38
penguinbait	no its tiny reconfigured script, but they changed some things in maemo	04:38
penguinbait	There is some threads on tmo that will walk you through it manually	04:39
penguinbait	somewhere?	04:39
zakkm	penguinbait: cool	04:43
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chx	i see subversion 1.4.6 -- a bit old :( is there cvs, mayhaps?	04:55
zakkm	chx: subversion itself?	05:02
zakkm	or the svn version of something	05:02
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chx	zakkm: subversion is at 1.6.2 or so	05:13
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chx	zakkm: and i could cvs while at it.	05:13
chx	*use	05:14
zakkm	did you see Mer yet?	05:14
zakkm	Chx: ^	05:19
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chx	Mer?	05:22
chx	No, whats that?	05:22
zakkm	~Mer	05:22
infobot	rumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer	05:22
zakkm	chx: what happened is the next nokia version isnt going to work on n8x0's .. so a few people decided to make a distro for the tablet basically	05:23
zakkm	out of ubuntu jaunty + parts of maemo etc	05:23
zakkm	can run lxde, gnome(sloww of course mind you), xfce .. w.e you want, but it would also give you the advantage of having ubuntu repositories.. giving you nice updated packages	05:24
zakkm	newest subversions, cvs etc etc	05:24
chx	wait ubuntu has armel repositories?	05:24
zakkm	yes	05:24
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zakkm	it went armel about half a year to a year ago?	05:24
* chx is behind		05:25
zakkm	heh	05:25
chx	thats very nice	05:25
zakkm	theres also gentoo but yeah	05:25
zakkm	for tablet	05:25
zakkm	all unofficial of course, but yeah mer isnt so much day to day / replacement yet .. progress is going very nicely	05:25
zakkm	this weekend is a hugeee maemo event in denmark i believe	05:25
zakkm	presentations, huge halls, talks everything	05:26
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chx	sorry	05:26
chx	its a bit too far.	05:26
zakkm	cbx: heh, im just saying	05:27
* chx is in the best place to live in this world: Vancouver.		05:27
zakkm	heh	05:27
zakkm	i live in Toronto	05:27
chx	"Vancouver is the world's best place to live, according to a survey by the Economist Intelligence Unit."	05:28
chx	and the city wins this for many years now	05:29
zakkm	norway is better	05:29
chx	with great ease :)	05:29
chx	Norway tends to be a bit on the cold side dont you think so?	05:29
zakkm	yeah	05:30
chx	Copenhagen is the 8th	05:30
chx	but thats just Denmark	05:30
zakkm	another user here is in vancouver	05:30
chx	Toronto is 5th so dont worry :)	05:31
zakkm	lol	05:31
zakkm	i dont	05:31
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mib_7lhlub2u	hi	07:07
mib_7lhlub2u	i ran remove libc6 all is removed from my n810 how can i get it back	07:09
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mib_7lhlub2u	i ran remove libc6 all is removed from my n810 how can i get it back	07:14
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luke-jr	mib_7lhlub2u: you start from scratch	07:18
luke-jr	and learn not to do stupid things	07:18
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mib_7lhlub2u	luke-jr:where to start from do you have any doc or link that i can refer?	07:20
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johnxx	~flashing	07:24
infobot	i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	07:24
johnxx	mib_7lhlub2u, ^^	07:24
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mib_7lhlub2u	no way other than flashing like restore factory settings or something :(	07:28
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johnxx	flashing is restore factory settings for us	07:29
johnxx	you remove libc6, you get to reflash	07:29
johnxx	it's the nokia promise :)	07:29
johnxx	but seriously, linux gives you enough rope to hang yourself with; it's up to you how you use it	07:30
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tonyyarusso	what can i use to mount remote directories over ssh in maemo?	07:42
johnxx	fuse and sshfs available from extras	07:44
johnxx	~extras	07:44
infobot	rumour has it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	07:44
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\|R	uhm, and i can't install modules-init-tools	07:46
\|R	ah ... scrap that, i've got insmod	07:47
johnxx	yeah, module-init-tools depends on bash or something	07:48
\|R	lsb-base	07:48
luke-jr	♡ bash	07:48
\|R	hehe yeah, i wish maemo used bash and not busybox	07:48
luke-jr	meh, who uses Maemo anymore?	07:49
\|R	hehe	07:49
\|R	well, i guess i'm the only user than :P	07:49
johnxx	it would be nice if it was at least installable	07:49
johnxx	bash that is	07:49
\|R	yeah	07:49
\|R	without the : You're better off jumping off a bridge, please type: yes	07:49
Myrtti	♥ N800	07:50
Myrtti	I use maemo still too...	07:50
johnxx	heck, even I dualboot for now	07:50
\|R	Off a card?	07:50
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johnxx	mer on a card, maemo on nand	07:51
\|R	i keep seeing mer mentionned here...	07:51
\|R	but never looked at what it was... quick url? :)	07:51
* \|R googles		07:52
\|R	ah cool	07:52
\|R	So.. what's missing from mer ?	07:52
\|R	or what cool stuff does it add ?	07:52
johnxx	it adds a sane base distribution with bash and almost all of ubuntu	07:54
\|R	Was there proprietary driver left?	07:54
johnxx	right now, sound needs to get added, then we need to figure out how to start (automagically) recompiling the apps that are in extras	07:54
\|R	i mean, do we loose some support for gps/sound/wifi/bt/whatever ?	07:54
johnxx	the sound situation is somewhat proprietary	07:54
\|R	ok	07:55
\|R	so it's running the latest kernel and all?	07:55
johnxx	nope, still has Nokia's kernel for now	07:56
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johnxx	it will be capable of using the latest kernel whenever it gets finished off, but there isn't really a full-time kernel hacker working on Mer ;)	07:56
luke-jr	\|R: GPS is no-go indefiniately until Nokia decides to help us (possibly after 3D)	07:57
luke-jr	\|R: Wifi works, no idea on BT (seems useless tbh)	07:57
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johnxx	er, it's supported to some degree I think	07:57
johnxx	BT works fine	07:57
\|R	3D for the n8x0 ?	07:57
luke-jr	I have sound output with 2.6.30-rc6, but no input	07:57
luke-jr	2.6.30-rc6 has broken keyboard tho	07:58
\|R	hehe	07:58
luke-jr	yes, 3D fro N8x0	07:58
luke-jr	------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------	07:58
\|R	i thought it was impossible? that using 800x480 used the 3D capacity for the extra screen "surface" (pixel count)	07:58
luke-jr	I thoguht it was just a 640x480 limitation on the 3D area	07:59
\|R	oh ok, so you could do it but not use all the screen... cool :)	07:59
johnxx	luke-jr, no sound output in 2.6.30 for the n800, only for the n810	08:02
luke-jr	johnxx: you need to screw with the mixer	08:02
luke-jr	I forget how XD	08:03
johnxx	luke-jr, it's a different SoC	08:03
luke-jr	o	08:03
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johnxx	and yes, there are instructions to use the GPS, sound and BT in Mer	08:03
johnxx	soon it will be all nice and setup out-of-the-box	08:03
johnxx	headed out for now, lots of info on the mer wiki	08:03
johnxx	~mer	08:03
infobot	somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer	08:03
johnxx	:)	08:03
\|R	yé :)	08:04
\|R	I'll leave it as it is for now, cause i'm leaving for 2 months in a month but when i come back hopefully i can switch :)	08:04
luke-jr	------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------	08:05
Myrtti	luke-jr: get the cat off the keyboard ;-)	08:06
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\|R	the wifi on the n8x0 is what, 35mW with 0 dBi antenna?	08:13
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thux	morning	08:49
chx	\|R: I am wondering too esp that i have a 500mW USB 802.11n adapter with a 9dBi antenna. (Overkill? what overkill? :p )	08:50
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Macer	hm	09:31
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LiraNuna	finally! I cross compiled dash	09:55
Sts\|office	woo	09:55
Sts\|office	not sure maemo runs with it though	09:55
LiraNuna	did anyone try?	09:56
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Sts\|office	possibly qwerty12_N800	09:56
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LiraNuna	/bin/sh is not a symlink?	10:00
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Sts\|office	it's busybox so there's bashisms	10:01
qwerty12_N800	LiraNuna: If you're using it as a boot shell, make it accept '.' as 'source'. Unless yoou wanna change a loot of init scripts...	10:01
LiraNuna	'source' ?	10:02
LiraNuna	I'm not sure I understand	10:03
Sts\|office	yeah, bash understands the command 'source', dash doesn't :P	10:03
Sts\|office	as it's a full posix shell	10:03
LiraNuna	well I'm more interested in it as a login shell	10:03
qwerty12_N800	That said, dash isn't that awesome on a tablet anyway - busybox's ash really does strike a good balance between speed and features	10:04
LiraNuna	ash isn't that good in some key combos I like	10:04
qwerty12_N800	Bleh, I need a real keyboard.	10:04
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X-Fade	Ah, the joys of SAS internet checkin: No passenger found	10:08
Sts\|office	neat :P	10:09
qwerty12	"It's a conspiracy!"	10:09
Sts\|office	X-Fade: notice the hovering black helicopters above? ;)	10:09
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* Sts\|office tries to turn his freerunner into a bluetooth gps		10:09
X-Fade	Sts\|office: Nah, that airline is just broken ;)	10:10
Sts\|office	i'm still waiting on the hotel info even though the guy said it'll come within hours :P	10:10
Sts\|office	+few	10:10
X-Fade	Ah, well I have just put my name on the wiki page and hope it will work if I show up at the hotel ;)	10:11
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rmt_	Ok - xmodmap installed, and I finally have a \| key. :)	10:18
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rmt_	Almost nobody outside Japan needs the Yen symbol, but everyone needs the pipe character! :-P	10:19
LiraNuna	:O	10:20
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X-Fade	rmt_: and tab is also something that you need to map ;)	10:22
crashanddie	rmt_, not everyone needs the pipe character...	10:23
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rmt_	crashanddie, GASP How do they live?	10:23
crashanddie	rmt_, dunno, never met one	10:24
crashanddie	Just heard about 'em folks	10:24
rmt_	Hmm.. pound! Almost nobody uses the pound key! Maybe Yen should be tab, and pound should be bar.	10:24
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crashanddie	rmt_, fuck off	10:32
rmt_	:-P	10:32
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crashanddie	$ ain't worth squat, and the euro sign is an inbred piece of shit :P	10:33
crashanddie	It was so much easier when half europe was using Francs, just a bloody F	10:33
rmt_	I think the 3 letter currency symbol is fine for most purposes.	10:34
rmt_	And if I want no confusion, I use that.. or AUD$ or US$	10:35
rmt_	But GBP serves the purpose.	10:35
rmt_	As does EUR.. but I find € easier to write than £	10:35
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* rmt_ assumes UTF-8		10:36
crashanddie	rmt_, assumed correctly	10:36
crashanddie	rmt_, yet, on a British keyboard, it really isn't all that complicated to type	10:36
crashanddie	shift + 3 = £	10:36
crashanddie	shit + 4 = $	10:36
crashanddie	alt + 4 = €	10:36
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qwerty12	crashanddie: not on this POS keyboard	10:37
qwerty12	The Euro symbol, that is	10:37
rmt_	Hmm, most new US-style keyboards have € on 5	10:37
crashanddie	qwerty12, yeah but you're poor	10:37
qwerty12	damn, found out :(	10:37
rmt_	And they miss the £ pokes tongue out	10:37
crashanddie	anyway, gotta go to work	10:37
rmt_	When is the UK switching to euros, anyway?	10:37
crashanddie	NEVAH	10:37
crashanddie	I got completely screwed over when I arrived here	10:38
crashanddie	they'd better not move to euros just yet, need to strengthen quite a bit still	10:38
rmt_	Hah.	10:38
rmt_	Going to the UK is always a bad idea. :-)	10:38
crashanddie	arrived here, was offered a job package that had the same figures as in mainland europe, but with a currency worth 1.5 the euro	10:39
rmt_	I amuse myself at the UK folks who moved to spain. :)	10:39
crashanddie	started working, 2 weeks later, the world melts the fuck down, and when you include transaction fees and all that shit, I get a 1:1 ratio	10:39
rmt_	Had to move back with currency fluctuations, only to find out they can't afford any houses back home either. :-P	10:39
rmt_	crashanddie, I had a fairly simple choice .. UK or Netherlands, if I wanted decent contract rates.. I chose the better option. :)	10:40
crashanddie	rmt_, actually, the netherlands is about to start a new programme	10:40
crashanddie	rmt_, to get specific skills into the country	10:40
crashanddie	rmt_, watch out for that, if you're accepted, you get a 10 year tax cut	10:41
rmt_	Luckily, I have a gf already.. otherwise the UK and its excellent immigration programme would've been better. :)	10:41
rmt_	crashanddie, That's not new.	10:41
rmt_	crashanddie, I had it.. 30% ruling..	10:41
rmt_	Top 30% of your income is tax free.	10:41
rmt_	I'm still on it, actually.. I need to deregister, 'cause it's eating into my 10 year allowance.	10:41
crashanddie	best still: don't spend more than 3 months in a country per year	10:42
rmt_	Just 3 more months of dutch health insurance, then I'll move to Germany and deregister.	10:42
crashanddie	just pick out 4 countries, hire a flat in each of those for 3 months	10:42
rmt_	crashanddie, You sure it's 3?	10:42
crashanddie	yeah it's like 112 days	10:42
crashanddie	so 3 months to give you some room	10:42
rmt_	6 months is the normal ruling for tax liability .. but I'm not sure what it is if your <6 months in three countries.	10:43
crashanddie	well, 6 months in 3 countries per year is getting quite tricky :D	10:43
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crashanddie	fuuuuuuck, I'm late	10:43
crashanddie	gotta go#	10:43
rmt_	A German guy I know normally spends the northern winter in Australia on a business visa.. one year he was there for over 6 months..	10:43
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rmt_	The aussies didn't want to tax him because of his visa type, and the German government didn't want to either. Lucky him.	10:44
qwerty12	crashanddie: see the effect #maemo has on people? >.<	10:44
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Macer	hm	10:46
*** crashanddie changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo \| http://maemo.org \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| Warning: #maemo is perilous for your job."		10:46
Macer	mushroom men is god	10:46
Macer	the spore wars :)	10:46
crashanddie	lol :P	10:46
Macer	something special to pull a spinnign fan in order to shred a bunny rabbit	10:46
Macer	:)	10:46
qwerty12	Damn, you'd think 590x319 is a nice size for Diablo's HildonFileChooser >.<	10:47
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:53
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Sts\|office	morning jaffaf	10:54
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johnx	I think there was some error linking my talk account to my maemo.org karma :)	11:19
johnx	I have 1 discussion point	11:19
X-Fade	johnx: Enough for you ;)	11:20
johnx	heh	11:20
Sts\|office	right. 770, smartq5, n800, .. broken n800, camera	11:20
Sts\|office	.. freerunner	11:21
* Sts\|office wonders what else		11:21
johnx	n800, n810, zaurus, ... wii?	11:21
johnx	laptop coughfrom workcough	11:21
Macer	ugh	11:22
Macer	cd burning is so slow	11:22
Macer	why can a dvd burner go like 10MB/s and a cd burner goes 3?	11:22
Macer	:)	11:22
Sts\|office	johnx: join the club	11:22
Macer	johnx: hey. how well does mer run on the wii?	11:23
johnx	not so hot yet	11:23
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johnx	it could run pretty well with a little more work, but I haven't gotten around to it yet	11:23
Macer	ah. i'm guessing you didn't get the internal wifi working also?	11:23
johnx	nope, used usb-ethernet adapter	11:23
johnx	it was like $3	11:23
Macer	hm	11:23
Macer	ok. sorry. was just curious	11:23
Macer	i was looking at the distro they have out for it.. and well.. it looks like it sucks :)	11:24
johnx	err, debian/xwhiite isn't bad	11:24
Macer	no?	11:24
johnx	supports most of the hardware that is possible to support	11:24
Macer	what i missing?	11:24
Macer	just the wifi?	11:24
johnx	yup	11:24
Macer	does it use X at all?	11:25
johnx	and you can plug in any usb linux-supported wifi you want	11:25
Myrtti	GRRRH	11:25
johnx	has X, comes up with wiimote support	11:25
johnx	you can install debian packages	11:25
Macer	wow really?	11:25
Macer	hm. i have a usb wifi that i'm almost positive linux would be able to use	11:25
Macer	why doesn't the internal wifi work?	11:25
Macer	isn't it just a linksys?	11:25
Macer	like an atheros or broadcom or something?	11:25
johnx	it might be just different enough from the desktop version	11:26
Macer	oh... was also wondering. does the distro come with wbfs support?	11:26
rm_you	Myrtti: ?? :P	11:26
johnx	I really don't know why it isn't supported , just that people said it would be hard	11:26
johnx	wbfs?	11:26
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Macer	wbfs = wii filesystem	11:26
Macer	i guess they made some sort of autoscrubbing filesystem for the wiii :)	11:26
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Macer	i didn't believe it until i saw it. it's a lot easier to use than using a fat32 since the fat32 drive maxes out at 4GB and doesn't scrub	11:27
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Macer	you have to scrub them manually and xfer them over and if you wind up with a game like smash bros that is like 8G you're just screwed	11:27
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Macer	i have over 80 games on a 400G drive now :) it's great	11:28
Macer	although about 75 of them work.. 5 of them are giving me problems that i can't figure out	11:28
Macer	anyways going to get some white castle since it's the only thing open and i'm hungry ... ttyl	11:28
johnx	have fun	11:28
johnx	don't get disentary	11:28
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timelys	Hello from Copenhagen	11:43
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Sts\|office	'lo timelys, is it as windy there as here? :P	11:43
timelys	Dunno, haven't reclaimed my luggage yet	11:44
Sts\|office	ah	11:44
Myrtti	god I love my N800 ♥	11:45
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timelys	Anyone know how to get to the hotel from the airport?	11:48
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Sts\|office	cabinn? grab metro M2 towards Vanløse	11:49
Sts\|office	drop off at Forum station	11:49
Sts\|office	it's 4 min walk from there	11:50
timelys	Thanks	11:50
X-Fade	Seems easy enough ;)	11:51
rm_you	Myrtti: :P	11:51
rm_you	timelys: ah, got in early to get all set up for our arrivals? :P	11:51
Sts\|office	X-Fade: it would have been hell before the metro	11:51
X-Fade	Sts\|office: Never been there, so haven't had the pleasure yet ;)	11:52
Sts\|office	and don't be scared that there seems to be no driver in the metro	11:52
Sts\|office	:P	11:52
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timelys	Umm, i have other things I need to do tonight and tomorrow	11:53
timelys	Which preclude arriving them	11:53
timelys	Err then	11:53
timelys	T9 isn't perfect :-(	11:54
timelys	Sts, are you reading a wikitravel page?	11:54
Sts\|office	no, i checked out the route before :)	11:55
Sts\|office	as i'm taking it tomorrow	11:55
timelys	Planning ahead ... How ... Odd	11:55
X-Fade	heh ;)	11:55
Sts\|office	being slightly autistic about planning sometimes helps :P	11:56
timelys	Do plant wait for baggage	11:56
Sts\|office	yeah, i expect to be waiting at least an hour for the other peeps :P	11:56
RST38h	no, t9 definitely is not working	11:56
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timelys	The signs will list a belt and the minutes until it will have your flight	11:57
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timelys	Rst. That's my phone eating keys	11:58
* Sts\|office will be going to cph with train		11:58
timelys	No fair	11:58
timelys	Heh	11:58
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timelys	Minutes: delayed	11:59
Sts\|office	"ERR: luggage caught fire"	12:00
rm_you	lol	12:01
* lcuk writes gate number on side of hand :$		12:01
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lcuk	i keepforgetting which and having to dive into bag to get boarding pass, so i learn to just write it on, its quicker and simpler	12:02
Macer	what does scarlet fever come from?	12:03
rm_you	lcuk: you bringing your unflashable n800 with you for us to look at? :P	12:03
Macer	i know it's an advancement of something	12:03
Macer	pneumonia?	12:03
rm_you	Macer: light red fever -> scarlet fever? :P	12:03
lcuk	yeah rm_you i can do	12:03
rm_you	cool	12:03
lcuk	are they safe to just lob into luggage	12:03
Macer	i'm watching the reader	12:04
lcuk	i dont want to go through security and drop a whole collection	12:04
Macer	nothing beats watching a post nazi film about germany :)	12:04
Macer	ze germans!	12:05
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rm_you	lcuk: i always carry them on	12:10
lcuk	thud thud thud thud! as they drop into the security box, i hate carrying so much tech \@/ (lap+2 810s+now 800)	12:11
Sts\|office	i wouldn't get through security if i was flying.	12:11
Macer	the reader is like teenage fantasy	12:11
Macer	haha	12:11
lcuk	maybe i could sync them up so they show a movie to the xray scanner person	12:11
lcuk	one frmae per device	12:11
Sts\|office	"I" "AM" "NOT" "A" "TERRORIST"? ;)	12:12
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lcuk	not exactly what i was thinking	12:13
rm_you	lol	12:14
rm_you	lcuk: i take SO much tech through	12:14
lcuk	"maemo devices"	12:14
lcuk	"they are great"	12:14
lcuk	"make you happy"	12:14
lcuk	"burma shave!"	12:14
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Sts\|office	lcuk: and then the "A" tablet dies	12:14
Sts\|office	err.	12:14
Sts\|office	NOT	12:14
lcuk	switch to B game	12:14
lcuk	thats easy	12:14
lcuk	i flip out the memory card put it in different one	12:15
rm_you	lcuk: laptop, n800, DS, bluetooth keybord, gps, nintendo DS, cellphone, about a billion cables...	12:15
lcuk	and carry on	12:15
lcuk	hopefully	12:15
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lcuk	rm_you, i am almost certain you are getting a cavity search	12:16
rm_you	lol	12:16
rm_you	havent yet	12:16
lcuk	if a security officer sees all that hes gonna get jealous	12:16
rm_you	though coming BACK to the US is a little scary always cause if you look at customs wrong they can just TAKE your stuff indefinitely and if they find copyrighted material on it they will just turn it over to the MPAA/RIAA	12:17
rm_you	>_>	12:17
lcuk	you're screwed then :p	12:17
rm_you	lol	12:17
lcuk	on the way back from the summit i had my bags searched	12:18
lcuk	i opened it at home and found a letter from security in it	12:18
lcuk	thankfully they let it through	12:18
rm_you	did they find your explosives / drugs? :P	12:18
rm_you	lol i get one of those letters EVERY SINGLE TIME I FLY	12:18
rm_you	did get one from the german customs AND the US customs	12:18
lcuk	first ever time for me :$	12:19
timelys	Ok bags arriving	12:19
lcuk	timelys, cool	12:19
* lcuk has been sent a CV from a zulu		12:20
timelys	Bag claimed :)	12:20
qwerty12	RST38h: fMSX351.zip's Maemo folder is still non-existent :)	12:20
rm_you	timelys: o/	12:26
rm_you	see you in a couple days :P	12:26
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Macer	wow. the reader is depressing	12:30
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Macer	do they still have concentration camps in germany?	13:00
Macer	like.. as memorials or s omething?	13:00
Sts\|office	tourist attractions, maybe	13:02
rm_you	O_o	13:02
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qwerty12	Attractions? shivers	13:02
Macer	haha	13:02
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Macer	i'm just curious because i'm watching the reader and he is walking through one	13:03
Macer	and there are skeletons all over the place	13:03
rm_you	"the reader"?	13:03
rm_you	wtf	13:03
rm_you	stage?	13:03
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rm_you	greenscreen?	13:03
Macer	it could be. don't know.	13:03
rm_you	o_O	13:03
Macer	not a gree screen	13:03
Macer	although sometimes it is hard to tell nowadays :)	13:03
Sts\|office	Macer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp#After_the_war	13:03
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Sts\|office	so they're still around, probably to remind of the horrors that happened there	13:04
rm_you	yeah O_o	13:04
rm_you	well, on THAT note, off to bed	13:05
rm_you	see ya'll in like... a day and a half	13:05
Sts\|office	yep, cya	13:05
rm_you	err, two days ?	13:05
Sts\|office	thu here :P	13:05
Sts\|office	so in about 25 hours	13:05
rm_you	one day :P	13:05
rm_you	lolk	13:05
* rm_you sleeps		13:06
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Macer	Sts\|office: the reader is about the trials after the war	13:07
Macer	young high school kid falls in love with a woman .. goes to law school... and finds out the woman he fell in love with was an ss agent who is on trial for wars against humanity	13:09
Macer	older woman actually. twice his age :) teaches him about precious bodily fluids	13:09
Macer	during the art of love making	13:09
Macer	haha	13:09
RST38h	This is screwed up	13:10
RST38h	Sounds as if no reasonable amount of controlled substances can motivate these script writers any more.	13:11
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Macer	goddamn kate winslett is old as hell	13:12
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timelys	Sts: yes wind. Yes pain drops	13:15
timelys	Or rain drops	13:15
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Macer	wow. german prison in 1976 doesn't seem too bad	13:17
Macer	they get tape players and stuff	13:17
qwerty12	Macer: http://www.hemmy.net/2007/09/29/austrian-five-star-prison/ :>	13:17
Macer	wtf?? :)	13:18
Macer	holy shit	13:18
Macer	how do you get into that place? if i were in austria i would be breaking hte law on purpose	13:19
Macer	blah. this movie isn't as interesting now that the trialisover	13:22
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Macer	qwerty12: hahahah	13:42
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Macer	the pic where they show the inmate with a huge smile playing ping pong is a riot	13:42
qwerty12	hehe	13:43
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Macer	i guess kate winslet doesn't look that babd	13:45
Macer	bad	13:45
Macer	:) for a 34 yr old	13:45
Macer	she won an oscar for the reader	13:46
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Macer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Birkenau25August1944.jpg	14:05
Macer	wow	14:05
Macer	that place is huge	14:05
Macer	it's a picture from an airplane and they were sending so many people there that you can see the prisoners from the sky	14:06
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Robot101	Macer: yeah, its big. and very, very depressing. :(	14:11
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Macer	yah	14:11
Macer	i think the best movie to ever describe it was schindler's list	14:11
wazd	threre is a chimney on the engine room but no chimney on the gas chamber itself	14:12
Macer	why would you need a chimney on the chamber?	14:12
qwerty12	I don't think that they wanted those gases to escape...	14:12
wazd	Macer: cause these gases are deadly. You need to throw em away high up in the sky to prevent presonnel casualities	14:13
Robot101	wazd: they didn't care about their personnel, they used other prisoners to do the dirty work and then killed them later	14:13
wazd	Robot101: well, don't think that guards were prisoners too	14:14
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Macer	i am sure the germans had an efficient and safe way of committing mass murder	14:14
Robot101	wazd: no, but the people moving the bodies around were	14:15
RST38h	moo wazd	14:15
wazd	RST38h: heya	14:15
wazd	Are there any live video sources from D7 btw?	14:15
Macer	if you search for nazi death camp on google videos you can see the disgustingness of the death camps	14:16
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wazd	Macer: in fat I'm not interested, just was curious bout the photo	14:19
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Macer	http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3464847706951809005&ei=QnIeSpbHGKryqAPXsaC6Bg&q=nazi+death+camp	14:19
lcuk2	urg, what happened to lightheartedness :S ill come back later	14:21
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RST38h	wazd: btw almost made ti73 work	14:23
wazd	http://s60.radikal.ru/i169/0905/97/95cd8bf04bf8.png , http://s45.radikal.ru/i107/0905/4d/0f7d47ebd43f.png , what do you think bout that type of settings arranging?	14:23
wazd	RST38h: nice, I guess I must enable it on the image?)	14:24
RST38h	wazd: not yet, the hardware is somewhat different from 83+, need to fogire out how	14:24
lcuk2	wazd, those look really nice :)	14:24
RST38h	wazd: as to those menus, I would move < and X farther away	14:25
rmt_	http://dpaste.de/sxFH/	14:25
RST38h	wazd: i.e. place them in the corners	14:25
rmt_	Thinking of ways to create super simple maemo interfaces.. a flowable widget is a good one.. :-)	14:25
lcuk2	rmt_, post in the maemo optimization thread on tmo	14:26
rmt_	Sorry - create more complex maemo interfaces in a super simple way. :)	14:26
RST38h	wazd: probable make color sample spots a big bigger	14:26
rmt_	lcuk2, url?	14:26
wazd	RST38h: well, Fremantle has the cross in exactly same place, I thought it would be good to follow some of the gguidelines :)	14:26
RST38h	probably, sorry	14:26
RST38h	wazd: ah	14:26
RST38h	ok	14:26
RST38h	Now I remember, Freemantle has got that ugly elongated button around the cross	14:26
wazd	RST38h: sort of :D	14:27
lcuk2	rmt_, and have you seen how organic liqbase is - flowing between multiple ui elements and ending up at a single focued highlighted specific item?	14:27
lcuk2	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=290974	14:27
rmt_	lcuk2, I think that I can rewrite that in Vala.. maybe throw in a Lua interface.. then we can have our own widget toolkit :-)	14:27
rmt_	lcuk2, Not really.. must check out liqbase a bit more.	14:27
rmt_	Unfortunately, I should be working on other things right now, so I'm going to do that. :)	14:28
RST38h	wazd: otherwise looks cool =)	14:28
lcuk2	yeah, the latest video shows a few more of its capabilities	14:28
wazd	lcuk2: I have 1 idea for your search	14:28
* lcuk2 likes wazd's latest		14:28
lcuk2	only 1 wazd, i thought it might start to inspire more :)	14:28
wazd	lcuk2: If you type "21 may" it should show your calendar appointments there	14:28
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lcuk2	yes wazd, the aim is to have ALL liq* elements filterable	14:29
lcuk2	and the search on the front	14:29
lcuk2	as i say in the video it was just a starting point, but the concept works from the few that i tried it with, its being standardized and adapted to work with the other piecs	14:29
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lcuk2	rmt_, vala has its own widget toolkit - GTK	14:31
lcuk2	isnt vala and gobject and gtk all intertwined already :)	14:31
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qwerty12_N800	lcuk2: pretty sure it can be used with SDL too, for example	14:32
rmt_	lcuk2, poor wording, yes.. But I mean super simple scriptable widgets. :)	14:33
lcuk2	but vala IS super scriptable gtk widgets already isnt it? (cool qwerty12_N800, i also suppose itwill work with other libraries too)	14:34
lcuk2	you dont have to make gtk widgets out of heavy components, you can start with containers and labels and pictures and work from there	14:35
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juergbi	lcuk2: you can also make a ncurses application with vala if you really want to ;)	14:35
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lcuk2	heh juergbi	14:36
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rmt_	lcuk2, I'd like to add support for easier HTTP requests.. XML page layout, etc.	14:37
rmt_	And local storage.	14:38
lcuk2	oh, thats simple then - use qt instead of vala	14:38
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rmt_	Hm?	14:38
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rmt_	Seems silly to use anything but GTK on the device.. and low level code (and maybe lua for simple scripting) for post-prototypes.	14:40
rmt_	Python's great for prototyping. And for desktop apps, I'd stick with it. But if I want a fast app on my 810 w/o too much pain, I think that Vala's the best choice.	14:41
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lcuk2	what do you normally code in?	14:41
Jaffa	rmt_: had a chance to test the new extras-devel valac?	14:41
rmt_	Jaffa - seems to work fine .. had to make some changes to my code for 0.7.3 though.. no Gtk.Widget.get_window() .. but not really needed on maemo, since I was using it to change the X cursor to a blank image.	14:43
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rmt_	It's just a pity that VAPI has no support for targeting older versions.	14:44
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Jaffa	rmt_: yeah	14:47
lcuk2	Jaffa, did it ever become clear as to why vala parsing was so slow on device	14:48
rmt_	Would be reasonably simple, I suspect.. just the version# each function was introduced at.	14:48
Jaffa	lcuk2: No idea. I don't know if the new version now in extras-devel has had improvements which'd give a significant speed increase. Feedback welcome :)	14:49
lcuk2	yeah ill peek when i get a few mins and some space on / its the closest thing to cfront at the moment (due to native c production)	14:50
* Jaffa nods		14:51
Stskeeps_	Jaffa, smartq devel programme will be 99$ (33$ rebate) btw	14:52
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jaska	is there mer status page somewhere?:P	14:56
andre___	status means...? like roadmap?	14:57
andre___	http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer	14:57
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jaska	current condition	14:57
lcuk2	mer heartbeat page should be good	14:57
lcuk2	"ismerreadyfordailyuseyet.com"	14:57
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Stskeeps_	jaska: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/cphnotes.pdf is a presentation i'm giving tomorrow	14:58
lcuk2	should have a no and a yes only	14:58
Stskeeps_	err, saturday	14:58
Stskeeps_	which also gives an overview where we're lacking	14:59
Stskeeps_	but the best way is really to try it out and see where we're lacking	14:59
Stskeeps_	some people already use it day to day	15:00
lcuk2	yes	15:00
jaska	mostly wondering which hardware bits dont yet work, iirc sound was an issue before atleast, havent been keeping an eye all that closely	15:00
wazd	Stskeeps_: wowowow	15:01
Jaffa	Stskeeps_: cool - I think I want :)	15:02
wazd	Stskeeps_: let me remake the slide with devices :)	15:02
Stskeeps_	sound status: marc (?) has made omap2-dsp pulseaudio plugin, we need DSP tasks from Maemo to have it working with ALSA	15:02
Stskeeps_	-> jaska	15:02
Stskeeps_	but we cant use pulseaudio plugin yet as it doesnt build on recent pulseaudio :)	15:03
Jaffa	Stskeeps_: how many available? Are you getting them and going to decide who's eligible? (Sounds most sensible)	15:03
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Stskeeps_	Jaffa: 10 rebates, and i'll decide based on skill and proposal related to improving mer experience, with focus on the smartq devices	15:03
Stskeeps_	kinda like with the CPH sponsorship form	15:04
Stskeeps_	so it's 10 best proposals matched with ability to actually do them :P	15:04
Jaffa	Stskeeps_: sounds like a plan	15:04
Jaffa	heh	15:04
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Stskeeps_	and it'll get shipped from singapore-- i asked if it is 33$ off either a Q5 or a Q7	15:07
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Stskeeps_	jaska: we have an unfortunate dependancy on some closed blobs but i hope to work out a method this weekend so we can deal with them more sanely than adding a updates repository..	15:10
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* lcuk2 will keep fingers out of doors		15:12
X-Fade	lcuk2: Different country, so you should be ok :)	15:13
lcuk2	different country, new rules	15:13
lcuk2	im not sticking my fingers into anything thats not made of nerf	15:13
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thopiekar	hi	15:29
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Jaffa	hi thopiekar	15:34
thopiekar	hey Jaffa	15:35
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GAN8001	Sheesh, even Peter can't spell Community Council right.	15:44
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Stskeeps_	morning GAN800	15:44
Stskeeps_	+1	15:44
qwerty12_N800	Time to get the stick out? ;)	15:45
Stskeeps_	GAN8001: Mer'll be basis of Ubuntu MID btw	15:45
Stskeeps_	session was today	15:45
GAN8001	Nice	15:45
Jaffa	Stskeeps_: Woohoo!	15:45
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Stskeeps_	either that or i'm delusional, ;)	15:45
Jaffa	Stskeeps_: Does that mean sponsorship/support from Canoncial? Or just some Ubuntu folks helping out?	15:46
Stskeeps_	3 good packagers are always gooda	15:46
Stskeeps_	and interest from community	15:46
Stskeeps_	it'll be a cooperation, not a merge :P	15:46
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* GAN8001 goes to work.		15:48
lcuk2	Stskeeps_, can we expect fist fights on pay per view?	15:48
lcuk2	GAN8001 you have a job?	15:49
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GAN800	ouch, lcuk2.	16:02
Pavlov	hah	16:03
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andrewfblack	GAN800: You around	16:05
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GAN800	andrewfblack, only vaguely.	16:07
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lcuk2	GAN800, seriously, when did you get a job, thought you were still in uni?	16:10
andrewfblack	GAN800: sent a pm to you	16:10
lcuk2	i know you had a summer thing a while back (last summer)	16:10
lcuk2	but thats it	16:10
Stskeeps_	lo andrewfblack :)	16:11
andrewfblack	Hey Stskeeps_	16:11
andrewfblack	how are things on your side of the world	16:11
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Stskeeps_	andrewfblack: good, getting packed for tomorrow, happy that it seems like Mer will be basis of Ubuntu MID in Karmic. :)	16:12
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andrewfblack	cool	16:12
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Stskeeps_	and that we are finally getting to a point where i can tell the maemo.org world about developer rebates for smartq5/7 :P	16:13
andrewfblack	nice how good are the rebates?	16:14
Stskeeps_	33$ rebate, so you can buy it for 99$	16:14
Stskeeps_	huh..	16:15
Stskeeps_	what is thing thing i found on the smartq ftp..	16:15
Stskeeps_	it looks like maemo	16:15
GAN800	lcuk2, summer job at the bookstore again. :p	16:16
lcuk2	good for you GAN800 nice to know you are still welcome even if it is dull	16:17
Stskeeps_	did anyone hear anything about Marvell and Maemo btw? i heard from the smartq people that marvell uses maemo as reference for MID stuff	16:17
GAN800	lcuk2, they'd take me back with 2 hours notice for a half-day here. ;)	16:17
lcuk2	you must smell like old books lol	16:17
GAN800	And dull isn't the word I would use. ;)	16:18
GAN800	I can't smell them anymore so maybe.	16:18
lcuk2	tracy used to work in a book store	16:18
lcuk2	the worst line she got from customers was:	16:18
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lcuk2	"im looking for a book...."	16:19
lcuk2	"its ummm red"	16:19
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sjgadsby	Heh. That sounds about right, lcuk2.	16:19
lcuk2	yeah sjgadsby, it only got worse and worse as christmas got closer ;)	16:20
Jaffa	lcuk2: Mao's Cultural Revolution Red Book? CD-audio spec? IBM RedBook series?	16:20
sjgadsby	My wife used to work in a Borders. I tried repeatedly to get her to tell customers that, "The blue section is over there."	16:20
andrewfblack	Stskeeps_: for $99 I would by one lol any chance of them coming to US or am I going ot have to import one?	16:20
Stskeeps_	andrewfblack: mailed from singapore, 132$ is normal retail price	16:20
lcuk2	haha	16:20
andrewfblack	Stskeeps_: where do you order then from?	16:21
Myrtti	books ♥	16:21
Stskeeps_	qwerty12_N800: around?	16:21
Stskeeps_	i have a true WTF for you	16:21
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps_: Sounds... fun	16:22
Stskeeps_	qwerty12_N800: i am digging in what seems to be a marvell maemo implementation, and there's a galculator deb laying there	16:22
Stskeeps_	guess who's maintainer?	16:22
qwerty12_N800	I'm innocent!	16:22
Stskeeps_	now i know why you quit ;p	16:23
Stskeeps_	(to get big money at marvell!)	16:23
qwerty12_N800	Only one I ever stuck my name upon, as a maintainer, is the one in Extras. Oh, and the one in Mer.	16:24
qwerty12_N800	Lol	16:24
* sjgadsby doesn't believe qwerty12_N800 is innocent of much of anything.		16:24
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qwerty12_N800	That reminds me, Matan sent me a mail a long while ago with a DBus service file attached. I guess there is no harm in making galculator osso_initialize.	16:25
qwerty12_N800	Gee, sjgadsby, thanks for the confidence vote :)	16:26
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andrewfblack	Just talked to Reggie Minimalist theme update will be uploaded tonight should fit well on cell phones and rotated tablets	16:28
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thopiekar	how was the url of the wikipage, where was explaind which section name I should take when uploading to extras..	16:37
X-Fade	thopiekar: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories	16:37
thopiekar	thanks X-Fade	16:38
thopiekar	:)	16:38
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GAN800	lcuk2! I get that all the time.	16:40
GAN800	Worse yet, there's at least two millions books in this place.	16:40
lcuk2	GAN800, yeah its annoying each time	16:40
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lcuk2	tracy said it was the worst part of the job	16:40
GAN800	'It might have a football on the cover . . . or maybe a dog'	16:40
GAN800	Nah, worst part is cleaning blood off the women's room toilet seats.	16:41
Jaffa	Pleasant.	16:41
andrewfblack	GAN800: I didn't need to know that	16:41
GAN800	Or ejecting somebody for taking a piss in the middle of the sales floor.	16:41
GAN800	Yeah, and I didn't need to see it. :P	16:42
lcuk2	:S you have killed the illusion	16:42
thopiekar	X-Fade: ?	16:42
X-Fade	thopiekar: ??	16:43
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lcuk2	women are fairy princesses who hover over the seat and are freshly cleansed and dried by the cooling blossom scented spring breeze	16:43
oDuda	hello hello hello !	16:43
thopiekar	I just uploaded a new version of portaudio to extras.. when is it online?	16:43
thopiekar	the build was successful..	16:43
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oDuda	to remove gizmo-installer i need to remove osso-software package too, right ? so can i remove osso-software, then remove gizmo (and others dependants) and then reinstall osso-software ?	16:44
Stskeeps_	curious fact: what i just found is Marvell's platform it seems, which is Diablo SDK in installed ARM form	16:45
X-Fade	oDuda: That will install gizmo again ;)	16:45
oDuda	ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nooooooooooooooooooooooo hahahahah	16:45
Jaffa	oDuda: osso-software-version-rx* is a meta-package for SSUs. and what X-Fade said	16:45
oDuda	ty X-Fade !	16:45
Stskeeps_	will i be an idiot if i don't contact them and let them know what Mer is? :P	16:45
Stskeeps_	(for their Marvell products, development boards, etc)	16:46
oDuda	ty Jaffa too...	16:46
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Pavlov	any of you guys coming to this thing in copenhagen this weekend?	16:46
Jaffa	Stskeeps_: Sounds like they want Mer :)	16:46
GAN800	lcuk2, you don't know the places I've cleansed of fecal matter. ;)	16:46
Stskeeps_	Pavlov: johnx, me, luck, rm_you, etc	16:46
Stskeeps_	lcuk	16:46
Pavlov	nice	16:46
Jaffa	GAN800: Makes you appreciate tmo? ;-)	16:47
Pavlov	hopefully this jetlag will be gone by then ;)	16:47
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oDuda	i need Mer ended and running pretty good... hellllllp hahah...	16:47
lcuk2	oDuda, the best way to help is to jump in and fixup the bit that matters most to you personally	16:48
lcuk2	GAN800, :S next thing you will be tellin me girls fart too	16:48
aquatix	ohnoes	16:48
oDuda	lcuk2: engaging to Mer ? i just !	16:48
GAN800	Jaffa, at this point, I think I prefer the fecal matter. :D At least I have tools that deal with THAT effectively. ;)	16:48
lcuk2	you dont have a hardware shop that sells bungs?	16:49
lcuk2	2 for 1, you stop the trot and you also get inflatable ladies	16:49
thopiekar	i'm trying to build portaudio19.. v18 was the version i uploaded before, but I noticed that I need v19 for the future..	16:51
thopiekar	maybe X-Fade or jeremiah_ can remember that I uploaded a newer version of asound to build it...	16:52
RST38h	andrew: thank you! (about that minimalist update)	16:52
thopiekar	but after they removed it because it breaked others builds it's now in extras as broken...	16:53
thopiekar	I tried to build it again but...	16:53
thopiekar	http://pastebin.com/d3c74891a	16:53
thopiekar	any suggestions how to fix that?	16:53
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jeremiah_	thopiekar: You are most likely missing libs	17:32
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thopiekar	is libasound splitted into different packages like qt4??	17:33
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qwerty12_N800	Would I be lynched, by the way, if I was to change the soname of a library?	17:34
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mgedmin	AFAIU you're supposed to do that when you break binary compatibility	17:39
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mgedmin	debian tends to ship both old and new versions of a library in separate packages so they both can be installed, until all software using the old one is fixed to use the new one	17:40
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qwerty12_N800	Thanks, I'll try and check out as to how they do it as I don't want to edit ld.conf or have a script setting a new LD_PRELOAD_PATH everytime a app using a newer library is run	17:44
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johh1	is there a precompiled kernel, that shows console output instead of the nokia logo?	17:46
qwerty12_N800	https://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting	17:46
lopz	hola	17:47
johh1	thanks	17:47
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thopiekar	so jeremiah_ , qwerty12_N800.. how can I find out in which package the needed lib is?	17:51
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RST38h	Liquid helium trumps liquid hydrogen at AMD's Phenom II overclocking love-in!	17:55
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RST38h	Overclockers Anonymous	17:56
luke-jr	------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------	17:56
thopiekar	AMD's Phenom II rocks on my pc, too :P	17:56
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thopiekar	qwerty12: could you please help me with my problem..	18:01
thopiekar	?	18:01
Proteous	rectal itch isn't a topic we offer help on here	18:01
jeremiah_	Are you sure?	18:01
Proteous	lol	18:01
Proteous	no	18:01
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thopiekar	or is asound really too old?	18:02
qwerty12	Eurgh, I don't know what possessed me to "google images" "rectal itch". Looks like Goatse has a contender...	18:02
qwerty12	thopiekar: Dunno, apt-file?	18:02
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thopiekar	qwerty12: do you mean whether I installed it from the closed binaries?	18:03
thopiekar	no	18:03
thopiekar	hopefully	18:03
thopiekar	:P	18:03
thopiekar	so deactivating the closed bin'S and reinstall?	18:04
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* thopiekar is reinstalling libasound from http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk/free ...		18:11
jeremiah_	qwerty12: lol	18:12
jeremiah_	You are a glutton for punishment	18:12
jeremiah_	I hope you didn't click on the famous Goatse link . . .	18:12
qwerty12	Not today :)	18:13
lcuk	cant click without letting go	18:13
thopiekar	qwerty12: ok same here..	18:13
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jeremiah_	I am going to give a talk on Maemo at a conference here next fall.	18:14
jeremiah_	What should the title be?	18:14
thopiekar	qwerty12: what can I do now?	18:14
jeremiah_	It is going to be a general introduction to Maemo	18:14
GAN800	Jeremiah Does a Jig	18:14
qwerty12	jeremiah_: "Package or die."	18:14
jeremiah_	GAN800: That was last year's title.	18:14
jeremiah_	qwerty12: That was the year before. :/	18:15
qwerty12	Hehe	18:15
Pavlov	i was told today im supposed to give a talk on saturday	18:15
jeremiah_	Pavlov: Oh cool! I look forward to it!	18:15
GAN800	'Screw You Losers'	18:15
jeremiah_	I'll be in the front row, heckling.	18:15
GAN800	Pavlov, just IRC on stage?	18:15
jeremiah_	Okay . . .	18:15
qwerty12	thopiekar: Sounds like you're out of luck, Diablo's one is too old and you can't upgrade it or you'll break the repo. Welcome to Diablo. :)	18:16
Pavlov	wait, there is a stage now?	18:16
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Pavlov	;)	18:16
jeremiah_	My Talk will be: Maemo - Screw you losers.	18:16
Pavlov	gonna demo on windows mobile	18:16
thopiekar	:\|	18:16
Pavlov	j/k	18:16
thopiekar	qwerty12: why is it so difficult to update libasound in diablo?	18:17
vhogemann	I saw an tear taskbar/bookmark plugin somewere in the foruns but I can't find the package for it... does it exists, or was just my imagination?	18:17
qwerty12	vhogemann: tearbookmarks, in extras-devel	18:17
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vhogemann	thanks!	18:18
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yutsai	hi, has anyone tested the frame rate of opengl es on beagle?	18:36
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yutsai	s/opengl es/open gl2	18:36
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thopiekar	cu	18:37
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sjgadsby	Ooh, my new Mac Pro is here.	18:42
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eukreign3	i'm using the vmware maemosdk, the scratchbox on there is pretty barebones (doesn't come with anything other than settings)	18:51
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eukreign3	is there a way to get a webrowser on it?	18:51
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eukreign3	i'm writing an application that requires doing some authentication via a webbrowser, so i need to be able to click on a link in my program and have it open a webbrowser	18:53
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vhogemann	eukreign3, theres a python lib that does that	18:56
vhogemann	eukreign3, mechanize	18:56
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vhogemann	eukreign3, I use it to automate some testing task in my work projects	18:56
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GAN800	Boo! Hiss! @ Tim	19:00
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GAN800	'Maemo Sprints' urgh	19:03
eukreign3	vhogemann: what does it automate?	19:03
eukreign3	when i do: apt-cache search firefox	19:03
eukreign3	nothing is returned	19:03
eukreign3	what does maemo use for webbrowser?	19:03
Jaffa	GAN800: Perhaps not worth making a fuss ;-)	19:04
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vhogemann	eukreign3, it's a browser implementation	19:05
vhogemann	it handles session, cookies, forms...	19:05
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eukreign3	ah	19:06
eukreign3	interesting	19:06
eukreign3	wait, that's just an API	19:06
eukreign3	i need an actual browser	19:07
vhogemann	Oh	19:07
eukreign3	i don't need to automate anything	19:07
eukreign3	i need an actual browser to open	19:07
eukreign3	and display a page to the user	19:07
vhogemann	try searching for midori	19:07
eukreign3	do you use the vmware maemosdk by any chance?	19:07
eukreign3	i can't seem to access the internet from the scratchbox	19:07
eukreign3	is that normal or is something misconfigured?	19:08
lcuk	eukreign3, is this the new one?	19:08
eukreign3	yaeh, i think so, downloaded it a week ago	19:08
lcuk	the old one ive heard didnt know about internet (ive heard grumblings before about it)	19:08
lcuk	so if you do google searches im sure something will crop up	19:08
eukreign3	looks like the scratch box doesn't even have ping installed :-)	19:09
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eukreign3	lcuk: found some stuff about dns	19:11
GAN800	Jaffa, clearly not considering the apparent result. :roll:	19:11
eukreign3	will look at that	19:11
GAN800	I can't decide if I want to bother with Modest's shit quoting to respond to any email.	19:11
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eukreign3	lcuk: updating the resolv.conf in scratchbox fixed the connectivity issue, thanks!	19:15
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eukreign3	still not sure how to get the browser installed	19:17
eukreign3	when i apt-cache search for browser one of the things that comes up is: tablet-browser-interface	19:17
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eukreign3	is it using microb?	19:21
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eukreign3	i installed mtasks and when i start it in scratchbox i get the banner saying "mCalendar - Loading" then the banner disappears but nothing is loaded...	19:31
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fiferboy	lbt: I can't make your changes work in scratchbox or on my device	19:40
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coldboot	Where are the source packages in a maemo repository?	19:43
coldboot	So I've got gdb here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/g/gdb/	19:43
coldboot	And I need to get the source package. I need the old version, 6.6, though, so apt-get source is not going to get it.	19:44
qwerty12	Er, 6.6 (with source) is right there.	19:45
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lbt	fiferboy: hmmm	19:46
lbt	what's up with them?	19:46
qwerty12	But anyway, apt-get install devscripts && dget -x http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/g/gdb/gdb_6.6.dfsg-1+armel+osso1.dsc	19:46
fiferboy	In scratchbox running an application against the library results in a segfault	19:46
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fiferboy	On the device it doesn't segfault, but the application doesn't ever initialize	19:47
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lbt	OK, I need to get a few things ready for the weekend... don't let me forget though :)	19:49
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fiferboy	lbt: I'll take a look at my most recently running version and walk through the changes you made	19:56
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fiferboy	Maybe I'll figure out where the problem is.	19:56
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JamieBennett	anyone running the fremantle SDK in a VMWare image on Mac OS X?	19:59
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coldboot	qwerty12: Which one is the source package?	20:01
coldboot	qwerty12: This one? gdb_6.6.dfsg.orig.tar.gz	20:02
coldboot	qwerty12: I guess so.	20:03
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qwerty12	coldboot: gdb_6.6.dfsg-1+armel+osso1.dsc, gdb_6.6.dfsg.orig.tar.gz, gdb_6.6.dfsg-1+armel+osso1.diff.gz	20:03
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qwerty12	The orig, being the original sources. The diff containing the modifications done by Maemo and the packaging and the dsc is a file which, if ran through dpkg-source -x, will extract the orig for you and apply the diff	20:04
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coldboot	How would you link gdb against libqthreads?	20:07
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coldboot	qwerty12: maemo's coreutils doesn't have md5sum	20:08
qwerty12	On the device, or scratchbox?	20:09
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woglinde	scratchbox	20:11
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vhogemann	Just took a look at canola and carman and found out about the Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia... Is anybody from there around?	20:12
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sjgadsby	I think the Canola folks hang out in #canola.	20:14
vhogemann	sjgadsby, thx	20:14
JamieBennett	I'm probably being a bit thick but when the documentation says add the following to sources.list "deb http://repository.maemo.org fremantle <dists>" what goes in the <dists> part?	20:15
qwerty12	Try "free non-free"	20:16
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JamieBennett	qwerty12 404 error. Trying to install python-clutter in scratchbox and failing :(	20:18
qwerty12	Ah, sorry :(	20:18
lcuk	JamieBennett, i think you have to have gone to a special link, obtained a token to open up the restricted package repo list thing	20:19
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JamieBennett	lcuk, ummm, I know I haven't done anthing of that sorts yet. Can you point me in the right direction?	20:20
lcuk	http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0_installation/	20:20
lcuk	yeah :P the installation instructions	20:20
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lcuk	* Accept the EULA from here to obtain the URL to access the Nokia binaries repository.	20:20
lcuk	* Add the URL thus obtained to the Scratchbox target's /etc/apt/sources.list and do the following:	20:20
chx	OMG	20:20
JamieBennett	lcuk I've installed all that. Trying to install extra's	20:20
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JamieBennett	lcuk namely python-clutter	20:21
chx	lcuk: you are the liqbase god arent you?	20:21
* chx bows deep		20:21
lcuk	ahhh JamieBennett	20:21
lcuk	lol Chx	20:21
qwerty12	JamieBennett: extras-devel? "deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free"	20:22
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* lcuk has never been called a god before		20:22
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JamieBennett	Thanks qwerty12 ! The mail at gforge announcing the availability of the pyclutter	20:23
JamieBennett	package is wrong	20:24
JamieBennett	has the wrong link	20:24
lcuk	ooer	20:24
lcuk	chx, JamieBennett you are comin to copenhagen arent u	20:27
lcuk	-chx,	20:27
JamieBennett	lcuk Can't. I was scheduled to go but I had to pull out because of a work deadline I have :(	20:27
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lcuk	ahhh have you tried pyclutter on desktop btw	20:28
coldboot	Why does scratchbox's coreutils not have md5sum?	20:28
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JamieBennett	lcuk I use pyclutter with one of my other projects http://www.entertainer-project.com	20:29
chx	lcuk: nope. too far.	20:30
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lcuk	i forgot you actually make real apps JamieBennett	20:31
JamieBennett	lcuk Try to ;)	20:31
lcuk	chx, where are you then (and it was an accident i asked you :P)	20:31
lcuk	as we all do	20:31
JamieBennett	Trying to get entertainer running in the SDK. Would make a killer app for the new tablets.	20:32
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lcuk	JamieBennett-awa, just wathced the youtube vid :) very impressive	20:35
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chx	lcuk: I am in the best place in this world: Vancouver.	20:36
lbt	mmm skiing	20:36
chx	http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ShowImage.aspx?CurImage=20-220-350-03.jpg&Image=20-220-350-03.jpg&S7ImageFlag=0&WaterMark=1&Item=N82E16820220350&Depa=0&Description=Patriot%208GB%20Micro%20SDHC%20Flash%20Card will this work for the Maemo? Seems like it has a minisd adapter	20:36
chx	erm,not Maemo, N810 :)	20:37
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Macer	hi	20:41
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RST38h	Ok could somebody tell me what makes TI73 firmware set the stack pointer to uninitialized area of RAM and do a RET?	20:53
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lcuk	RST38h, mel	20:55
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RST38h	Thought so	21:02
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lcuk	are you sure its uninitialized	21:05
lcuk	RST38h, ^	21:05
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fiferboy_n810	lbt: Are you going to be hacking on finger scrolling this weekend?	21:21
RST38h	lcuk: yep.	21:21
lcuk	RST38h, so its just a jump into random memory? when does this occur?	21:22
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RST38h	it is not a jump	21:23
RST38h	It sets SP just above the actual stack and then does a RET	21:23
RST38h	RET fetches the value from stack and transfer it to IP	21:23
RST38h	that value is 0xFFFF	21:24
lcuk	what happens next then	21:25
RST38h	Jumps to 0xffff, find 0xff there	21:25
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lcuk	yeah, but is this at startup>?	21:26
RST38h	0xff corresponds to RST 38h instruction (yes, I know)	21:26
lcuk	shutdown? or just randomly	21:26
RST38h	at some point of init sequence	21:26
RST38h	So, it goes into IRQ handler at 0x0038	21:26
lcuk	so, you get run during the init	21:26
RST38h	I get run on pretty much any external event worth interrupting the CPU	21:26
lcuk	but on actual hardware?	21:27
RST38h	on actual hardware.	21:27
lcuk	exploitable? :D	21:27
RST38h	not really	21:28
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lcuk	heh, does it crash tho?	21:28
RST38h	unless irq handler has got a hook somewhere in ram	21:28
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RST38h	yes, it goes into some unpredictable code sequence	21:28
lcuk	file it as a bug	21:29
lcuk	only 25years	21:29
RST38h	file it where?	21:29
lcuk	ti :)	21:29
RST38h	it is not a bug	21:29
RST38h	it is something I am doing wrong.	21:29
lcuk	but its using uninitialized memory	21:29
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JamieBennett	lcuk: Entertainer is a great piece of software which would fit nicely with the new tablet. Python, Clutter e.t.c. Just getting the dependancies compiled in scratchbox at the moment though.	21:29
RST38h	well I have run it on their own emulator and it goes through uninitialized ram all the time	21:30
RST38h	god knows why	21:30
lcuk	pass	21:31
zakkm	that would be so cpu-crazy	21:31
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zakkm	wouldnt it?	21:31
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zakkm	is there scratchbox for mac? i think its about time i try it out lol	21:32
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JamieBennett	zakkm: I'm running scratchbox under VMWare now with a new iMac	21:33
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zakkm	heh im going the oldd hackintosh approach, and my cpu doesnt have hardware virtualization	21:33
zakkm	which is going to suck, its still very fast though	21:33
zakkm	thats the only way?	21:33
JamieBennett	zakkm: yes	21:34
zakkm	sucks, why dont you use parallels?	21:34
zakkm	it beats vmware fusion.. the newest versions of each	21:34
JamieBennett	just have a copy of vmware, no particular reason	21:35
qwerty12_N800	If it's a hackintosh, why not just install Linux on another partition?	21:35
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JamieBennett	damn, 7 python- dependancies that are currently not in extra's. Really didn't want to go down the packaging route, in fact I have no idea how to package for maemo :(	21:37
zakkm	qwerty12_N800: cause i dont like to leave mac thats why :) i love it too much	21:38
zakkm	i have it just the way i like, i skin alott	21:39
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JamieBennett	zakkm: I like Mac OS X. I have a 24" iMac here and a 13" Linux laptop. Guess which I like to use more and not because of the OS.	21:40
qwerty12_N800	Heh, my only Mac encounter was with one that only used one button on the mouse. Brought my frustration levels right up.	21:40
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: Using the very same mouse now :) Surprising how little you use the right mouse button!	21:41
zakkm	qwerty12_N800: yeah it frustrates my friend too, you hold ctrl and click and it right click, but oddly you never use it on mac as much as windows, just the way the ui is	21:41
zakkm	qwerty12_N800: most people just plug in a normal PC mouse though.. and you have left and right click	21:41
zakkm	i have a very nice logitech G5 mouse i got for $25	21:42
JamieBennett	zakkm: prefer the mighty mouse myself	21:42
zakkm	ah not G5 .. mx510	21:42
zakkm	http://www.techexcess.net/images/products/other/Logitech-MX510-mouse_medium.jpg	21:42
qwerty12_N800	Ah, thanks :)	21:43
zakkm	JamieBennett: i do too, but i didnt buy a real mac, so i dont really have a choice, and mighty mouses are expensive	21:43
zakkm	i want one though, same with apple keyboard	21:43
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JamieBennett	zakkm: That they are. A keyboard and mouse combo will set you back £60 here in the UK :(	21:43
zakkm	yeah its similar here	21:44
zakkm	live in Toronto, canada but family and such is all UK	21:44
JamieBennett	Love the keyboard though, got 3. One at home, one at work and the new small one for travelling.	21:44
fiferboy_n810	zakkm: I'm woking in Burlington right now	21:44
zakkm	if you get the bluetooth one.. it makes a good keyboard for the nokia	21:45
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zakkm	JamieBennett: the apple bluetooth one connects very well / works well	21:45
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zakkm	fiferboy_n810: very nice, my dad used to work there yearss ago	21:45
qwerty12_N800	Hi fiferboy_n810 :)	21:45
fiferboy_n810	Hey Faheem	21:45
zakkm	fiferboy_n810: do you live there?	21:45
lcuk	JamieBennett, my summit technical glitch was caused by a rogue apple kb	21:45
fiferboy_n810	zakkm: I live in Hamilton	21:46
zakkm	lcuk: arent they amazing :)	21:46
lcuk	yeah until the enter key is pressed in my bag @/	21:46
zakkm	fiferboy_n810: cool, have some friends there	21:46
fiferboy_n810	zakkm: My brother lives in Toronto, and I used to work there	21:48
zakkm	fiferboy_n810: heh, you woudnt happen to want to trade your n810 for a n800+f-fadapter + cash , would you?	21:48
zakkm	fully working perfect nokia of course	21:48
zakkm	even comes with the newest liqbase on it hahh :)	21:48
lcuk	i will, if the amount of cash is right	21:48
lcuk	and its not the newest :P	21:49
fiferboy_n810	zakkm: Not looking to sell yet, sorry. Maybe when a nice maemo5 device is out...	21:49
zakkm	so mad i got the n800 :(	21:49
lcuk	why	21:49
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zakkm	i hate onscreen keyboards	21:49
zakkm	it drives me crazy like some OCD	21:49
JamieBennett	lcuk: I'm sure you'll get a developer device	21:49
fiferboy_n810	zakkm: I almost got the N800 when I was buying, but wanted GPS	21:49
zakkm	i thought the GPS on it sucked?	21:50
lcuk	we can only hope	21:50
fiferboy_n810	It does, but I didn't know that	21:50
qwerty12_N800	fiferboy_n810: before or after you found out the GPS was useless? :)	21:50
qwerty12_N800	ah	21:50
fiferboy_n810	:D	21:51
zakkm	heh	21:51
zakkm	thats why the n800 isnt that much worse *tries to convince fiferboy	21:51
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fiferboy_n810	I had a Zaurus C1000 before, so I am used to small HW keyboards	21:52
fiferboy_n810	I don't think I could go to OSKB only	21:52
zakkm	heh	21:52
zakkm	i think the form factor of n810 looks so much better too	21:52
zakkm	im in highskool and i cant seem to beat the ppl with ipods ;p	21:53
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fiferboy_n810	I thought they frowned on highschool beatings here...	21:53
zakkm	heh not beatings.just i bring out my nokia and do some stuff and ppl are like eww slow eww that looks ugly ;p	21:54
zakkm	the n800 does look ugly:P theres a whole forum topic on it :P	21:54
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JamieBennett	zakkm: the n800 isn't ugly it just needs a refresh	21:55
JamieBennett	;)	21:55
zakkm	compared to ipods and n810 i think it looks really ugly	21:55
zakkm	and isnt Mac osx awesome?	21:55
zakkm	you excited for wwdc?	21:55
JamieBennett	zakkm: Only because my phone contract is up soon and I want the new iphone	21:56
zakkm	heh	21:56
zakkm	snow leopard gets shown?	21:56
zakkm	mac 10.6 ?	21:56
zakkm	10 days :)	21:57
JamieBennett	I'm hoping they show the new iphone, not really interested in snow leopard	21:57
zakkm	whatt!	21:57
zakkm	snow leopard is going to be nicee and fast	21:57
zakkm	going to have zfs support	21:57
zakkm	finder is finally going to be cocoa	21:57
JamieBennett	more bells and whistles and nothing to shout about is my guess	21:57
wazd	n800 look is awesome	21:58
zakkm	bells and whistles?	21:58
zakkm	im talking about programming stuff	21:58
wazd	one of my favorite devices ever	21:58
zakkm	new filesystems, finder is going to be cocoa	21:58
zakkm	thats not UI/graphical stuff	21:58
fiferboy_n810	Hey wazd	21:58
zakkm	thats behind-the-scenes stuff	21:58
wazd	If only they have reoved that camera and hump	21:59
wazd	fiferboy_n810: heya	21:59
zakkm	heh i never use the camera	21:59
JamieBennett	From what I understand there isn't much going on with snow leopard apart from a lot of code consolidation and a litte UI reworking. Obviously there is the GPU optimizations which will be big but apart form that, meh!	21:59
qwerty12_N800	My N800 has a better LED mod (>.<): http://freefile.kristopherw.us/uploads/qwerty12/dsc00007.jpg	22:00
wazd	I'm finding all Apple stuff a bit boring. That minimalistic stuff really got annoying in past 3 or 4 years	22:00
zakkm	the UI isnt changing at all too much, nice new quicktime version and itunes and such but not much more.. Finder is gonig cocoa so it will be nicer, faster, stable.. the whole gpu stuff w.e ... going to have zfs support instead/as well as the normal old hfs+ .. and zfs is wayyyy faster than hfs+ ... hfs+ is slower than ntfs -.-	22:00
zakkm	qwerty12_N800: is that titanium theme?	22:01
qwerty12_N800	yer	22:01
zakkm	there should be more themes heh	22:01
zakkm	i started to use echowb	22:01
JamieBennett	zakkm: ntfs was spawned from the vaginas of banished demons and should have been strangled at birth.	22:02
JamieBennett	to put it politely	22:02
zakkm	heh	22:02
zakkm	and hfs+ , the mac one now.. is worse	22:02
fiferboy_n810	I like the Titan theme!	22:02
zakkm	thats why zfs in snow leopard is gonig to be amazing , nice and fast too	22:03
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JamieBennett	umm, how do I sudo in scratchbox?	22:03
qwerty12_N800	fakeroot	22:03
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qwerty12_N800	Everyone knows FAT32 owns, with its 4GB file limit and all...	22:04
fiferboy_n810	FAT32!!	22:04
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800 is there some magic document that I should be reading as a new user to the fremantle SDK and wanting to package some programs. Just trying to install python-pysqlite and it all goes well until the install when it complains about permissions.	22:05
zakkm	qwerty12_N800: its 2GB isnt it?	22:05
qwerty12_N800	zakkm: 4gb - ran into it recently :)	22:05
jaska	4gb minus 1 byte	22:05
zakkm	why would youhave fat32 :P	22:05
zakkm	everybody knows to run xfs :D	22:06
fiferboy_n810	qwerty, did you just get an HD bigger than 4GB?	22:06
fiferboy_n810	I-ve had one for almost a year now	22:06
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qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: Hmm, edit the setup.py (or equivalent to run 'python2.5' explicitly - instead of 'python' (which runs scratchbox's internal python)	22:06
qwerty12_N800	fiferboy_n810: lol, no :p	22:07
fiferboy_n810	Oh, well I'm sure you'll get one soon	22:07
qwerty12_N800	Use a 200GB (small by today's standards, I know) HD with NTFS :/	22:07
Meiz_n810	FAT16 owns	22:08
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: I don't think its that. Getting the error "error: could not create '/scratchbox/tools/lib/python2.3/site-packages/pysqlite2': Permission denied!"	22:08
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: Wow, got 6TB here and I need more	22:09
* zakkm has a 640gb sata harddrive internal		22:09
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zakkm	need more than 6TB, what do you store on that thing..	22:09
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JamieBennett	zakkm: I do a lot of view editing	22:10
JamieBennett	video that should of been	22:10
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: it's that. :) - scratchbox's 'python' wants its python libraries installed there which is pointless for the Maemo SDK as the Maemo python2.5 gets its libs from /usr/lib/python2.5	22:10
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: Heh, 6TB. I'm jealous :\	22:11
zakkm	JamieBennett: finalcut ?	22:11
fiferboy_n810	qwerty, I'm with you - 250GB	22:11
JamieBennett	zakkm: I'm happy with imove08	22:11
zakkm	not '09 ?	22:12
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lbt	fiferboy_n810: hope so.... Qt this weekend that is	22:12
lbt	6Tb... paff...	22:12
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: If that is the case then a quick search of the setup.py file shows no reference ot 'python'	22:12
fiferboy_n810	lbt: Do you know if Antonio will be there?	22:12
JamieBennett	zakkm: sorry I meant 09	22:12
zakkm	its good enough?	22:12
lbt	I don't think he'll make it	22:12
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: Hmm, how are you trying to install/build it?	22:13
lbt	Quim suggested there'd be a Qt presence though	22:13
JamieBennett	zakkm: Its great.	22:13
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: python setup.py install	22:13
fiferboy_n810	lbt: I was thinking about the setOvershootValue function	22:14
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: Try invoking it as: python2.5 setup.py install	22:14
lbt	yeah, pretty isn't it <gulp>	22:14
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fiferboy_n810	The behaviour is most likely undefined when removing the bound checks	22:14
lbt	we need a better solution... but that can interface to it I hope	22:14
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: Build goes fine	22:14
lbt	ideally widgets will overrride that	22:14
fiferboy_n810	It's a good proof-of-concept though	22:15
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lbt	IIRC that means it should be virtual	22:15
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qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: if you run the program you wanted, with 'python2.5, it should start now	22:17
fiferboy_n810	lbt: Do you remember what other requirements Antonio had for accepting the patches?	22:17
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: Lots of other errors, no such files, lots of python errors.	22:17
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* JamieBennett goes to try python2.5 on the build		22:18
qwerty12_N800	:/	22:18
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lbt	fiferboy_n810:	22:19
lbt	1. sometime the scrolling bars don't works fine	22:20
lbt	2. scrolling for pixel instead that for item in every widget (temporary workaround)	22:20
lbt	3. maxiumum scrolling acelleration. (ensure a good animation for big deltas)	22:20
JamieBennett	nope, doesn't work. What is wrong with python under the SDK? First error from a 'python2.5 setup.py build' is "src/connection.h:26:20: error: Python.h: No such file or directory"	22:20
qwerty12_N800	Check if python2.5-dev is installed	22:21
fiferboy_n810	lbt: 1 and 3 are done, so we just have to convince him we don't need 2 :)	22:21
lbt	:)	22:22
lbt	actually an old Qt had a hack to do that...	22:22
lbt	should be somewhere in the svn history	22:22
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: Worked. Surely this is documented somewhere?	22:22
* JamieBennett hopes		22:22
lbt	bounded by #ifdef hildon	22:22
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lbt	if you felt like looking...	22:22
fiferboy_n810	I'm in favour of reusing solutions	22:23
fiferboy_n810	I'll take a look. Any hints on how to find it?	22:23
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: No idea, I'm just working on stuff I remember by looking at the packaging of python bindings in extras :)	22:23
fiferboy_n810	lbt: Was the code for Qt Extended?	22:24
lbt	no	22:24
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: I feel a blog post coming on when this is all finished!	22:24
lbt	same file IIRC	22:24
lbt	qabstractscrollarea	22:24
qwerty12_N800	hehe	22:24
lbt	or maybe q-a-slider	22:24
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eukreign3	when i ran the Application Manager in the SDK it couldn't find /usr/bin/fakeroot	22:25
eukreign3	is that normal?	22:25
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JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: going to bug you some more as you are all knowledgeable, I now have an installed python-pysqlite, how do I push that to extras so I don't have to do this again? Pointers?	22:26
eukreign3	i had to make a symlink to /scratchbox/tools/bin/fakeroot	22:26
* lbt barfs		22:26
eukreign3	it also can't find dpkg-preconfigure	22:27
eukreign3	and still can't find a browser to install	22:28
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eukreign3	there is nothing for microb in the repository for diablo	22:28
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coldboot	How would you compile gdb in scratchbox 2 such that it's linked into libqthreads?	22:28
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fortunev	i am looking for a news ticker that scrolls horizontaly form my n810. any idea if one exists?	22:29
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: Hmm, I usually take Debian's source package and modify as needed (run python2.5 etc)	22:29
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qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: MicroB (or, rather, the UI) is only allowed to be used on the device - Diablo's browser-ui is not free	22:30
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JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: So how do you go from tarball to something pushable to extras? Its all a little confusing even for someone who was programming commercial solutions on a z80 processor 15 years ago!	22:33
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Stskeeps	i still can't believe a ti84+ with a z80 costs up to 150$	22:33
JamieBennett	Stskeeps: I have fond memories of the z80	22:33
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aquatix	doesn't the ti84+ actually emulate a z80?	22:35
aquatix	on some rather fast ARM?	22:35
Stskeeps	so it can run Mer, you say?	22:35
Stskeeps	;)	22:35
aquatix	g	22:35
locutus	aquatix: you are thinking about the new HP's	22:35
aquatix	more that i heard about custom firmware (non-Mer ;) ) that makes use of the full speed	22:35
locutus	aquatix: which emulate the old HP Saturn CPU's on ARM	22:35
aquatix	locutus: ah right	22:36
aquatix	indeed	22:36
fortunev	ok.. Is the ruby-maemo project still alive? How do I get ruby on my n810 with gtk support	22:36
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JamieBennett	... and Nokia wonder why they don't have more varied apps. I have an app that has some dependancies that extra's doesn't satisfy so I think, thats OK, I'll compile the dependancies and upload them. All the wiki pages on w.m.o tell me zero and the only kind of relevant on links to a rather large .pdf. Is there no simple way?	22:38
eukreign3	qwerty12_N800: that's good to know! is there a work around? i have a program that needs to open up a browser and i just want to make sure this works	22:38
fiferboy_n810	lbt: I would think it is in QAbstractItemMode, as QAbstractScrollArea only scrolls by pixel	22:39
Stskeeps	JamieBennett: my presentation for this weekend says "To a traditional open source developer, developing for Maemo is a headache."	22:39
Stskeeps	:P	22:39
Stskeeps	or, "can be a headache"	22:39
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: heh, the fun of packaging Python libraries :). I'd take debian's source package for it (run: apt-get install devscripts && dget -x http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/python-pysqlite2/python-pysqlite2_2.5.5-1.dsc and you'll have it extracted with a debian folder - which the packaging programs use to follow rules into making it a deb), make required modifications (install libraries to /usr/lib/python2.5 etc) an	22:39
qwerty12_N800	d upload: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras	22:39
JamieBennett	Stskeeps: throw in a reference to a embedded developer of 15 years, Linux user for 13 years, getting confused with how to develop for maemo!	22:40
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qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: I've never attempted to install the browser into MicroB but why not just try your program on a device :)	22:40
qwerty12_N800	s/MicroB/SDK/	22:40
infobot	qwerty12_N800 meant: eukreign3: I've never attempted to install the browser into SDK but why not just try your program on a device :)	22:40
eukreign3	qwerty12_N800: i don't have a dvice yet :-(	22:40
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eukreign3	can't afford it, was hoping to write an app, maybe get some donations and buy one :-)	22:41
eukreign3	i've written quite a few gtk apps in the past and know python very well, so figured this shouldn't be too difficult, so far it hasn't, except for the part where the scratchbox comes with now standard apps (no terminal, browser, etc)	22:42
qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: ah :/, how are you calling the browser? Giving your url as an argument, with --url, to 'browser' works or sending the browser with a dbus message of 'open_new_window' and a dbus string of your url work	22:43
fortunev	Is there another channel for the n810 where I could get some newbie help?	22:43
eukreign3	qwerty12_N800: which is the best way? calling it on the command line or via dbus?	22:44
eukreign3	if i call the command line how do i know what the command is?	22:44
eukreign3	people might have different browsers installed	22:44
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eukreign3	is there a standard way to ask maemo to open a url?	22:44
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fortunev	quit	22:45
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qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: You should be able to install a terminal, run apt-get source osso-xterm; apt-get build-dep osso-xterm (cd to its folder) and do a dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot and install the produced the deb	22:45
eukreign3	will try it, thanks	22:45
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qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: Maemo doesn't really have a concept of different browsers, most programs are hardcoded to open the default	22:46
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qwerty12_N800	I'll find an example of opening it with DBus	22:46
qwerty12_N800	default being MicroB	22:47
Stskeeps	hm, is there some way to hardcode apps to start Tear?	22:47
Stskeeps	instead	22:47
Stskeeps	when "open link"	22:47
X-Fade	You register the mime type, right?	22:47
Stskeeps	i get angry when the normal browser starts at the moment .. :P	22:47
JamieBennett	sorry qwerty12_N800 for monopolizing you but for this particular package the only difference is you have to run python2.5 rather than python at the command line. Would you just edit the README to show that?	22:47
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qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: don't apologise :), You'd probably want to edit debian/rules to run python2.5 when running setup.py	22:49
qwerty12_N800	There's other things but I kinda need to be on a computer with a proper keyboard to answer in much more detail >.<	22:50
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qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps: Tear's a little funky regarding that... Calling it via DBus only works when it has a window open and when it's not runnung, you need to give the url as an argument to 'tear'	22:53
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eukreign3	i got the x-term built and install and it's running in scratchbox... but the enter key on my keyboard doesn't work :-(	22:53
qwerty12_N800	tear also crashes when using python-dbus to run it...	22:54
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qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: try the small enter	22:54
eukreign3	i can use the on screen keyboard though to press enter so i guess it's ok	22:54
JamieBennett	qwert12_N800: the plot thickens. The script uses a pyversion -r to figure out the python version, only problem is that if I do a pyversion -r in scratchbox is says pyversions: error parsing Python-Version attribute	22:55
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qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: I hardcode that variable to 2.5 as I don't think Diablo (the only Maemo in which I've adapted packaging for) will ever see anything higher	22:56
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800: hard coding 2.5 as the variable then. I will blog about this afterwards, promise ;)	22:57
joelmaher	is there a maemo emulator?	22:59
JamieBennett	next problem with the build as per the wiki page: dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field `Xb-Python-Version' in input data in package's section of control info file	22:59
qwerty12_N800	that relates to pyversions, it doesn't do any harm to leave it in the control file but it provides no benefit (in this case)	23:00
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JamieBennett	so which part of the control file do I need to lance?	23:02
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qwerty12_N800	Xb-Python-Version should be listed in the topp section of debian/control	23:04
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JamieBennett	Thats the first thing I did, search for Xb but its not there. Top half of the file Source: python-pysqlite2	23:05
JamieBennett	Section: python	23:05
JamieBennett	Priority: optional	23:05
JamieBennett	Maintainer: Joel Rosdahl <joel@debian.org>	23:05
JamieBennett	Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7.0.0), python-all-dev (>= 2.3.5-11), python-all-dbg, python-central (>= 0.5.6), libsqlite3-dev (>= 3.3.8), python-sphinx (>= 0.4.2)	23:05
JamieBennett	XS-Python-Version: all	23:05
eukreign3	qwerty12_N800: would this: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/ new version of microb work in the scratchbox?	23:05
JamieBennett	Standards-Version: 3.8.1	23:05
eukreign3	says there is a download for x86	23:05
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qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: 'XS-Python-Version: all' is probably the line you're looking for	23:06
lcuk	cjidudfuucucufididifkfoigiohi i igifiufuvbnjj gvgtu uuhuihu ufdctcgxdhg gh hyddydycu ufycyfuyfyvy y yfyfyfyvy yvyfyfyfyfyfyfyffjifjrfjdgdgc	23:06
JamieBennett	lcuk :D	23:07
qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: Most likely not as it's for an older version of Maemo	23:07
eukreign3	hmmm...	23:08
eukreign3	so, what does Diablo use?	23:08
lcuk	damn jacob	23:08
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JamieBennett	lcuk: you been watching lost?	23:10
eukreign3	qwerty12_N800: got segmentation fault when i tried running it	23:12
GAN800	Maemo Packaging: Kill Yourself with Software	23:12
GAN800	Here's the new plan, I write titles, you guys put together software.	23:12
JamieBennett	qwert12_N800: what do you think XS-Python-Version should be? 2.5 or Python2.5? Either way I get another error, dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field `Xb-Python-Version' in input data in package's section of control info file	23:12
JamieBennett	dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field `Xb-Python-Version' in input data in package's section of control info file	23:12
GAN800	s/software/talks/	23:12
infobot	GAN800 meant: Here's the new plan, I write titles, you guys put together talks.	23:12
eukreign3	lol	23:13
qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: I open the browser using something like this: http://pastebin.com/f6971aa56 (excuse the shitness of that example)	23:13
qwerty12_N800	Yeah, ' should be " >.<	23:13
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qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: it can be removed	23:14
JamieBennett	qwerty12_N800 OK removed, just get a signing error which I presume I can ignore?	23:15
qwerty12_N800	Yeah, you don't need to sign anymore (huzzah!) to upload to extras	23:16
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JamieBennett	OK it seems the admins need to grant me access to upload first. Thank for all your help qwert12_N800	23:17
eukreign3	qwerty12_N800: thanks, now i just have to figure out how to do that in Python :-)	23:17
JamieBennett	OK it seems the admins need to grant me access to upload first. Thank for all your help qwerty12_N800 (spell it right this time ;))	23:18
eukreign3	qwerty12_N800: what about Fennec? would that work in the scratchbox?	23:18
qwerty12_N800	JamieBennett: heh, no problem	23:19
GAN800	'admins', i.e., X-Fade	23:19
qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: shouldn't be hard to pythonize that, there's python-osso examples, using RPC, on the PyMaemo page	23:20
eukreign3	qwerty12_N800: i found this: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_osso_examples/code/mime/osso_test_mime_open.py	23:20
eukreign3	that asks osso to open file based on mime type	23:21
eukreign3	do you think if i pass it the URL it will know what to do?	23:21
qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: probably, I just wouldn't assume that everyone would have it installed on the device :)	23:21
JamieBennett	no really, appreciate all the help, I really would not of bothered if it wasn't for your help and as a developer myself I find this a real big barrier for development entry.	23:21
qwerty12_N800	nod :)	23:22
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coldboot	Under "Debugging issues with Scratchbox-2" in this guide: http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/sdk-plus-debugging-guide.html -- it says that you have to link gdb to the threading library that your program uses. I'm trying to debug a Qt program, which uses pthreads. How do I link gdb in with pthreads?	23:22
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coldboot	I've already tried manually editing the Makefile for the Maemo-patched gdb version, adding -lpthread to the gcc parameters, then installed it, and I still don't have gdb making breakpoints properly.	23:23
coldboot	How do you debug a Qt application in scratchbox 2?	23:23
qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: that seems a little different to what that C does, but that osso.Context is the equivalent of osso_initalize in that C. Lemne see if I can figure it out :)	23:23
* jamiebennett waits for upload approval by going to watch some TV shoes I've missed the past week		23:24
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coldboot	The Maemo wiki has no information on debugging a Qt application in scratchbox, see here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon#Debugging_a_Qt_application	23:24
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coldboot	Is there a way to install a shell that isn't crap on the nokia so CTRL+R command history lookup works?	23:34
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qwerty12_N800	eukreign3: bah, python and its bloody tuples. I modified an example and got this: http://pastebin.com/f69e5d51c - it works fine to open the browser with an designated site	23:40
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eukreign3	awesome! thanks	23:41
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eukreign3	okay, so i'm trying to get fennec	23:53
eukreign3	apt-get is fetching ../release/binary-i386/Packages.gz instead of ../release/binary-x86/Packages.gz	23:54
eukreign3	is there anyway to get apt to use the correct binary	23:54
eukreign3	nm, that directory is empty anyways	23:56
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