IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2009-03-23

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* xnt|in_gimp wishes he had a tablet00:10
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z4chhxnt|in_gimp, you should have never given it up >.<00:24
xnt|in_gimp:P00:25
xnt|in_gimpim talking about wacom tablets00:26
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xnt|in_gimphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_tablet00:26
lcukxnt|in_gimp, just get a touch laptop00:27
lcukeven better00:27
xnt|in_gimpyeah00:27
xnt|in_gimpanyone know where to get the microb icon?00:28
lcuk*weba_ap_web_browser* in the icons folder00:29
lcuki take it you mean the globe00:29
* xnt|in_gimp doesn't have his tablet with him :(00:29
xnt|in_gimpyeah I mean the globe00:29
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lbtso, my Qt app is handling dbus acceptably00:49
lbtbut something is not right in registering with the WM00:49
lbtX-Osso-Service is set00:50
xnt|in_gimpalmost done :)00:54
lcuklbt, https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/liqbase_hildon.c?revision=68&root=liqbase&view=markup00:55
xnt|in_gimpcurrently without browser icon00:55
lcukthats the reg code for osso from liqbase perspective00:55
qwerty12_N800Doesn't he want to use something that isn't libosso?00:56
lbtyeah, I know :) I'm digging into the libosso source for osso_initialize00:56
lbtthe problem is that osso_initialize hooks into glib (ie gtk)00:57
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lbthere is some scribbling I've been doing to map osso_initialize to QtDBus http://pastebin.com/d25781fbf00:58
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lcukwell, that makes sense, hildon *IS* gtk and thats the closest even I come to gtk00:59
lcukremember, liqbase is as far from gtk as qt is00:59
lbtyeah - but you're in bed with it :)00:59
lbtliqbase will depend on glib00:59
lbtglib == QtCore01:00
lcukyes and to be compatible you have to connect at some level01:00
lbtno, Qt has no glib dependency AFAIK01:01
lbt(it may be that dbusd is implemented in glib though)01:01
lbtdbus provides the abstraction01:01
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lcuk:) ahh01:02
lbtdbus == corba01:02
* lcuk never knew that01:02
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GeneralAntillesNetbook Remix just makes me wish for Hildon01:08
xnt|in_gimpGA: :P01:11
lcukVDVsx, this article needs your attention :P http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/22/212620601:12
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* GeneralAntilles gives up and orders a pizza.01:13
VDVsxlcuk, lol01:13
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GeneralAntillesBleh, Nautilus opens windows for my SD card everytime I open the lid.01:17
xnt|in_gimp:P:P01:17
lcukomg ive got people following me on twitter01:17
lcuki dont think ive ever made a posting!01:17
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xnt|in_gimpmy sucky Mer UI Mockup Minus browser icon :P http://xceleo.com/mer-ui-mockup.png01:20
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xnt|in_gimpStskeeps: What do you think01:20
xnt|in_gimpStskeeps: that bar under the time will pull down a stats/lockscreen/wifi toggle menu like android01:22
lcukxnt|in_gimp, thats very nice :)01:23
xnt|in_gimplcuk: thanks :)01:23
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xnt|eatingok I have to eat something01:24
* xnt|eating orders pizza01:24
lcukyou deserve it, that looks really slick :)01:24
xnt|eatingI'll make one with the dropdown afer I eat01:24
lcuki'm glad someone thinks the sidebar works in certain situations01:25
xnt|eatingand then Ill make a blogpost about it01:25
xnt|eatingthe terminal has a dedicated icon, and the menu is Horizontal01:25
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it doesn't. :P01:26
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lcukgeneral if you want people to use their thumbs having easy to hit targets is a win01:26
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, the sidebar isn't that01:27
GeneralAntillesit's a nice way to waste valuable application space.01:27
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xnt|eating:P01:28
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xnt|eatingI know it looks like crap right now :P01:28
GeneralAntillesMan there's a lot of builder spam01:29
xnt|eatingMaybe there will be a button which hides the sidebar, like kde01:29
GeneralAntillesThere is, it's called the fullscreen button.01:29
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't work very well.01:29
* xnt|eating hates the fs button :P01:30
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lcukGeneralAntilles, different people have different focus, it would be nice to have proper choice about which panels go where and to what alignment :)01:32
lcukso a user who wants a simple topbar can have it, and others who might want a bottom bar or sidebars can also have it01:33
GeneralAntilleslcuk, we don't have enough space for that.01:33
GeneralAntillesIt's the touch-context argument01:33
GeneralAntillesit adds too much complexity to be cost-effective.01:33
lcukGeneralAntilles, i merely said it would be nice, i dont need it justifying :)01:34
GeneralAntillesApplication developers need to be able to predict how much space they're going to be able to work with when it's as little as we have.01:34
lcukno they dont01:34
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, lots of things would be nice, most of them aren't feasible in reality. :)01:34
lcukapplications need to handle change01:34
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* xnt|eating is bored again01:40
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xntlifehacker needs to update more01:40
NiggaJewChinkhai guise. wtf is this channel all bout?01:40
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xnt:P01:41
NiggaJewChinkhai xnt soup?01:41
xnthttp://maemo.org/01:41
xnt:P01:41
NiggaJewChinkdevelopment for the internets?01:42
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NiggaJewChinkohh looks kewl01:42
xntInternet tablets01:42
NiggaJewChinkit's bad I is have a motorola f301:43
xnthttp://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=products,n81001:43
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xnt:P thanks01:46
SeatNigradamn they banned me01:46
xnt:P:P:P01:46
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xntzombie irc users01:46
OffensiveNickno... i have 2 connections01:47
OffensiveNickhehe my nick is now a paradox01:47
OffensiveNickspeaking of multiple internet connections, i'll do my supreme multiple gateway manager for the internets :D01:48
* xnt ignores his xchat window01:49
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OffensiveNickignorant...01:49
GeneralAntillesignore-ant01:50
OffensiveNickwhat?01:50
* xnt has a headache01:50
OffensiveNicktake 1g paracetamol01:50
lbtnight all01:50
OffensiveNickbye01:51
xntlbt: night01:51
t_s_othats quite a bit, no?01:53
OffensiveNickt_s_o wut?01:53
t_s_o1 gram of painkillers...01:53
OffensiveNickit's just paracetamol01:54
OffensiveNickyour body can take much more01:54
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OffensiveNickbut if you want a nice painkiller try dihydrocodeinone or oxycodone and stuff like this01:54
t_s_oheh01:55
xntOffensiveNick: Please Spell Correctly , Please?01:55
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t_s_oim not much of a painkiller user01:55
OffensiveNickxnt are the chemichal substances misspelled?01:55
sp3000who needs a liver anyway01:56
GeneralAntillesNot sp3000!01:56
GeneralAntillesYoink!01:56
xnt:P01:56
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OffensiveNicknice stuff is diazepam with alcohol01:58
OffensiveNickyou've got all to try this01:58
OffensiveNicktry it*01:59
qwerty12_N800lol01:59
GeneralAntillesOffensiveNick, you're looking for ##drugs.01:59
GeneralAntillesThis is #maemo, try to stick to the topic, please.01:59
xnt:P:P01:59
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OffensiveNicknobody is on drugs here :(02:00
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t_s_ocaffeine forever ;)02:00
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OffensiveNickthat's a drug!02:01
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OffensiveNickt_s_o have you ever tried caffeine with tobacco with ginkgo biloba? tons of fun02:01
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slypheedhey guys...application menu went blank...any tips/links on rebuilding it (i.e. besides update-desktop-database)?02:03
slypheedon an n810/diablo/os200802:03
GeneralAntillesslypheed, there's a default file somewhere you can copy.02:03
GeneralAntillesslypheed, did you run out of space during an install or something?02:03
qwerty12_N800slypheed: cp /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu /home/user/.osso/menus/applications.menu && update-desktop-database :p02:04
slypheedquite possible...moved my root to the 2gb internal instead of flash...so been installing apps a bit heedlessly..02:04
slypheedthanks much, i'll give it a try02:04
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PedoBearqwerty12_N800 hmmm are you talking about cp?02:05
* PedoBear puts his coolface02:05
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, can you add a comment for it here? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=379502:05
qwerty12_N800PedoBear: lol, cp as in copy - not some dirty concotion02:06
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles: sure02:06
PedoBearwhat a shame qwerty12_N800 :(02:06
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qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles: hmm, not sure what to comment on, you already say how to get the menus back02:09
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, oh, did I?02:09
GeneralAntillesWell then. . . .02:09
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slypheedawesome, thanks so much qwerty12_N800..so much nicer :p02:09
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* xnt wants his own diy uav02:30
xnthttp://diydrones.com/profiles/blog/show?id=705844%3ABlogPost%3A4481402:30
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xntmaybe I can control it with maemo?02:31
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DavidePalmis there an irc channel for maemo mapper?02:38
fireunthat seems a little specific for irc02:38
DavidePalm:D02:38
DavidePalmwell there is for canola and xchat02:39
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DavidePalmanyone know what the 'generic error' issue with maemo mapper is about?   Happens when trying to download a route02:41
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xntb-man: http://xceleo.com/mer-ui-mockup.png Mer UI Mockup :)03:35
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xntb-man16: http://xceleo.com/mer-ui-mockup.png Mer UI Mockup :)03:42
luke-jryou *just* said that :o03:42
xnt:P03:42
xntyeah03:42
xntb-man|compiling: hello :P03:43
b-man|compilinghello03:44
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xntb-man|compiling: http://xceleo.com/mer-ui-mockup.png :P03:45
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b-man|compilingnice :)03:45
xnt:)03:45
* b-man|compiling 's tablet is getting pushed to it's limits atm XD03:46
b-man|compilingcompiling LFS03:46
b-man|compilingon my tablet XD03:47
xnt:P:P XD03:47
* b-man|compiling is still having issues with binutils :P03:48
xnt:P03:48
b-man|compilingbut i made more progress :)03:48
b-man|compilingxnt: what have you been up to? :)03:49
b-man|compilingbesides making that mock-up XP03:50
b-man|compilingwich is awsome btw03:51
b-man|compiling*witch :P03:52
xntnothing, just looking at this :P http://www.avbrand.com/projects/carpc/03:52
b-man|compilingheh03:52
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* b-man|compiling gets an " BFD does not support target {armv6l-unknown-linux-gnueabi}" error :P03:54
* b-man|compiling is going crazy03:55
xnt:P03:55
b-man|compiling:P:P03:55
* b-man|compiling trys again03:56
xnt:P03:57
b-man|compilingi don't give up easily ;)03:57
xnt:)03:57
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b-man|compilingXD03:58
* xnt wants a car :P03:59
xntwith a linux carpc03:59
b-man|compilinglol03:59
z4chhbman what's you compiling?04:00
b-man|compilingbinutils04:00
b-man|compiling:P04:00
b-man|compilingit's complaining about the system architecture04:00
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xntomfg I must get this on my car when I get mine :)04:01
b-man|compilingxnt: how old are you btw?04:01
xnthttps://www.timekiller.org/carpc/index.php04:01
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JackaLXSo what do you do when your n810 won't boot, the initial "Nokia" splash screen is as far as it gets and that is borked, and reflashing just results in a usb write error (resource temp unavailable), and the only way to turn the pig off is to pull the battery?04:21
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z4chhb-man, what does the b stand for?04:36
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b-manBrian :)04:47
b-manmy real name04:47
b-manb -(brian) m -(mckenzie) an04:47
b-manthe "an" means adam - my middle name04:47
b-manand the 16 i occasionally use is my age :P04:47
* b-man didn't chose his username for nothing :)04:47
boredom:P04:48
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b-mani'm back :)05:06
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JackaLXI'm getting `usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable' when trying to reflash my n810.  Anyone have any ideas/suggestions?05:30
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zakkmJackaLX: what you using to reflash? whats the line05:54
JackaLX./flasher-3.0 -F image -f -R05:55
zakkmare you running as root?05:56
JackaLXyes05:56
zakkmthe nokia has the usb logo when reflashing?05:56
JackaLXyes05:56
JackaLXit sends the xloader ok, and dies on secondary image with 0 bytes sent05:57
zakkmtry other usb slot?05:57
JackaLXyes05:57
zakkmis maemo installed fine?05:57
JackaLXit was :-)05:58
zakkmlol05:58
zakkmim thinking you could of tried fiasco-flasher05:58
JackaLXit won't boot :-(05:58
zakkmso do initfs?05:59
zakkmnot whole image05:59
zakkmlinux?05:59
JackaLXI'll give it a try... what flasher opts do I need for that --flash-only initfs?  anything else05:59
JackaLXyes06:00
zakkm--flash-only=initfs06:00
zakkmit would redo "bootloader"06:00
JackaLXok06:00
zakkmotherwise you would have to redownload/reinstall shit if you do whole image ;p06:00
zakkmJackaLX: did you try taking out battery for a few seconds06:01
zakkmput back in .. and try06:01
JackaLXyeah... atm it's the only way to turn the pig off :-O06:02
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zakkmit will auto turn off from nokia screen in like 2 min.. btw06:02
zakkmbut uhh06:02
zakkmcan you show me whole line06:03
zakkmcounting the __$: and image name06:03
JackaLX# ../tools/flasher-3.0 -F RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R06:03
zakkmtry without root06:04
zakkmmount -t usbfs usbfs /proc/bus/usb06:05
zakkmtry that too06:05
zakkmthat as root, of course06:05
JackaLXyeah I mount that normally anyway06:05
JackaLXmy UPS needs it06:05
zakkmim just taking educated guesses here you know06:05
JackaLXsure, that's cool06:06
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zakkmtry without root06:06
zakkmor if it really needs do sudo.. dont become root06:06
JackaLXnon-root is no good... perms.06:06
JackaLXmay I ask why?06:07
zakkmyou did chmod +x flasher .. right?06:07
JackaLXyes :-)06:07
zakkmwhy as sudo?06:08
zakkmrun as user with root permissions, rather than run as root06:08
zakkmuser specifics settings might of been an obstacle06:08
JackaLXyeah I know what sudo is... I'm wondering why you want me to avoid root here06:08
JackaLXBTW, sudo won't do that06:08
JackaLXthe processes you run via sudo run as the user you sudo to (root if you don't specify a user)06:09
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zakkmthen am i referring to su?06:09
JackaLXsame thing basically06:09
zakkmi swear one of them is just permission, not as the user06:10
JackaLXcrap, this bloody thing won't even power up now06:10
zakkmyou can try unpacking the binary06:11
zakkmand then install the initfs.jff206:11
zakkmlol06:11
zakkmout of batteries?06:11
JackaLXit's a little low... 2.9 volts06:12
zakkmtakes alot to power on and off06:12
zakkmand battery removed06:12
JackaLXhad it on charge all fooking night last night06:12
zakkmwhy do you think they say not to turn off nokia06:13
zakkmjust to leave it in sleep06:13
JackaLXit'd be dead flat before I woke up06:13
zakkmdo you have a memory card inserted to nokia?06:13
JackaLXbut I normally do leave it on all the time anyway06:13
JackaLXnot atm06:14
zakkmbad linux install?06:15
JackaLXno06:15
zakkmhave you tried a livecd or something?06:15
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Macerblah06:16
JackaLXerm, no06:17
Macerhm06:17
zakkmjust try it06:17
zakkmmount it, so you dont have to redownload image06:17
zakkmchmod again and yeah06:17
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GeneralAntilles'morning, qgil.06:57
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qgilhi GeneralAntilles, just read your email06:59
qgilgood call in maemo-community06:59
GeneralAntillesProbably should've started sooner, but hopefully it'll pick up steam.07:00
qgilwhat do you think about this thread moves in ITt, worth doing and helping people to post in the right places?07:01
GeneralAntillesThe initial reaction is probably going to be negative (itT has been a bit wild west for most of its life), but people actually being able to find what they're looking for in logical places is incredibly important.07:03
qgilok, good to know your opinion  :)07:03
GeneralAntillesEspecially with the big traffic bump we're probably going to see (RSN, right? ;))07:03
GeneralAntillesYou should also look at merging and splitting threads.07:03
qgilit's not the most intellectually challenging task I'm doin'g these days...  ;)07:03
GeneralAntillesTry the jumble. :P07:04
qgilRSN?07:04
GeneralAntillesReal Soon Now. Sorry, fishing for hints. :P07:04
qgilIn a universal scale, everything is RSN anyways  ;)07:05
GeneralAntillesHehe07:05
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qgilsplitting threads, I thought about it in some cases but the fact that I'm a Nokian might not help........07:06
qgilso I'm just doin' the obvious sorting07:06
GeneralAntillesMaybe prod the other mods to be on the lookout then they can do it for a while until people acclimate.07:07
qgilCancel issue in Alpha SDK thread, N8*0 support issue in Maemo 5 features thread... if you go for the split they would deserve someone might even be more encouraged to keep the discussion unite07:08
qgilor maybe I'm just paranoid, but web forums are a good place for paranoia07:08
GeneralAntillesWe need to start pushing to keep people on-topic.07:08
timelE61igood place to avoid, like dark alleys07:08
GeneralAntillesRunning rampant with the topic is fun and all, and it's alright for smaller forums, but gets a little out of hand when they start really growing.07:09
GeneralAntillesUntil you end up with 1000 page threads going all over the place.07:09
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qgilagreed, but many times when that happens there is some Nokia-hot-issue involved, so this is why I won't be the one touching that07:12
qgilthose threads are seen by the rest of moderators anyway, so no need to ping them myself07:13
GeneralAntillesIt's like beekeeping. ;)07:13
qgilalso, I think it's good to leave thore redirects with a 1 month life, at least now for the first weeks before we have forum descriptions and sticky topics, and people get more used to post in the right place07:15
GeneralAntillesAs long as the redirects expire.07:15
qgilI agree now they look silly... but they reflect the current "silliness" (no offense to anyone)  :)07:15
GeneralAntillesOne thing I've noticed about the Ubuntu forums is that google results tend to be populated by threads with either no responses or no useful responses.07:17
GeneralAntillesI wonder if it would be bad to kill threads that don't get resolved after a certain time period.07:18
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qgilGeneralAntilles: it takes enough time to follow what is living, to follow as well what is dead...07:20
GeneralAntillesMaybe it could be automated somehow, but, yeah, a fair point.07:22
GeneralAntillesGoogling for answers and running across dead Ubuntu threads over and over again has gotten old, I guess. ;)07:23
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z4chhw00t finished my gsoc proposal rough draft! :D07:32
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KhertanGeneralAntilles: hum ... the french ubuntu community don't have so much dead thread ...07:51
GeneralAntillesKhertan, what's their strategy? Being French? :P07:52
Khertanthere is two solution ... some guys use there time to answer07:52
Khertans/there/their07:52
Khertanor some use their time to delete it07:52
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Khertanok i' ll try to see why it s like that07:53
GeneralAntillesKhertan, I suspect dead thread deletion is a good strategy.07:53
GeneralAntillesThe manual overhead on it can probably be reduced, too, with a little scripting.07:53
KhertanGeneralAntilles: maybe07:53
Khertanbut i see an other solution instead of deletion07:53
GeneralAntillesWe could probably get the software to generate a "digest" of threads meeting the deletion criteria for mods.07:54
Khertanto push them to archive and force robot to not index it07:54
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Khertanso there is no deleting ..07:54
Khertanand when people search answer with google ... no dead thread without any answer07:55
Khertanand as it s archive ... same things for the internal search engine07:55
GeneralAntillesYeah, that'd work.07:55
GeneralAntillesPlus, since there's no deletion, it can be automated without any guilt.07:56
Khertanyep07:56
Khertanhappy to help the community :)07:56
Khertanso now ... i ll run .... i ll be to late to take my train ...07:57
GeneralAntillesJust gotta remember to write this up for -community later.07:57
Khertanhave a good day ...07:57
Khertan::)07:57
GeneralAntillesOr itT, I guess.07:57
GeneralAntillesLater.07:58
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qgilextras-devel is getting populated (16 items now) and I can see already evident bugs e.g. libraries visible to the user and installed apps not showing any icon and needing to be booted via console08:56
qgil(Fremantle, I mean)08:56
qgilI wonder whether we should start pushing those apps to bugs.maemo.org, or at least show in the package info a URL or the project to file a bug08:57
GeneralAntillesqgil, I was waiting on the h-a-m categories patches to ship to start bugging maintainers again. :(08:57
GeneralAntillesandre__, timeless, jeremiah and myself have been projects to b.m.o here and there as things come up.08:58
GeneralAntillesBut until we get some bugzilla updates there's a lot of manual overhead involved.08:58
timelE61iquim: i'm willing to add the products08:59
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timelE61iBut someone needs to give me a list08:59
timelE61iI'm not running maemo5 :)08:59
qgilGeneralAntilles: ok, but we could say that a package needs to state a project URL in info if it wants to ever be promoted to extras-testing08:59
qgilnow I want to file bugs and the onyl thing I see in some cases is an email of a maintaner08:59
GeneralAntillesDoes Debian provide a facility for that in debs?08:59
timelE61iGan: did you post the instructions i gave you?08:59
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, yeah, they're on the wiki.09:00
timelE61iQgil: give me a list of products and i'll deal w/ them now09:00
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: there's a Homepage: field in debs09:00
qgilGeneralAntilles: don't ask me, but at least they let you add a description where a URL can be added09:00
qgilah, Stskeeps gave a better answer09:01
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Administration_guide09:01
timelE61iMy computer is killing itsewlf!09:02
StskeepstimelE61i: it's monday. it's perfectly natural.09:02
Stskeepsi expect disasters when i sit down at my machine today.09:02
timelE61iQgil: better hold off that list until my computer reincarnates09:02
GeneralAntillesqgil, for now, emailing the maintainers is fairly effective.09:03
timelE61iQgil: i'd rather setup bugzilla09:03
timelE61iThat way you can walk them through using it09:03
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, does Fremantle's h-a-m have the patches (I think I've asked before, but I don't recall the answer)?09:04
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GeneralAntillesStill no Fremantle on MXR? :(09:04
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i can't tell currently, - HAM is one of the packages we didn't update yet09:04
timelE61iGan?09:05
timelE61iWhy doesn't repo.m.o support directory listings?09:05
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, doesn't it?09:06
StskeepstimelE61i: it does in most places except for the nokia-closed stuff09:06
timelyhttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/Packages09:06
timelyerr09:06
timelyhttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free09:07
GeneralAntillesGuess Fremantle Extras-devel is setup funkily09:07
timelyqgil: so um...09:08
GeneralAntillesWell, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/09:08
timelydo you want to give me a list of products in order09:08
timelyor should i just create one for each i can find in extras-devel?09:08
timelygan: re mxr, i'm halfway through reincarnating the xref builder09:08
timelybut sadly this week i have to waste the entire week writing meaningless documentation09:08
GeneralAntillesMy pathetic r.m.o pre-draft if anybody feels like looking: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/repository.maemo.org.html09:12
Stskeeps"Chinook eEtras"09:12
GeneralAntillesNice09:13
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timelyi don't like it :)09:15
timelyare you opposed to tables? :)09:16
timelyoddly, people can easily scan tables09:16
timelytablets are a different matter09:16
GeneralAntillesUnless the data actually calls for it.09:16
GeneralAntillesBut, what's your proposal?09:16
timelyone column per release09:17
timelyreleases which are latest for their thing get a <th> instead of a <td> for the head09:17
timelythat draws attn to the important releases09:17
timelyalternatively relegate the older ones to a second table09:17
timely(probably better)09:17
timelythen you stick the repositories as rows09:17
timelyw/ extras as a dedicated row09:17
timely(and extras-devel and ...)09:18
timelyso... is "dialcentral" really something in 5.0 extras-devel that needs a product?09:18
timelyqgil: actually, how about this09:19
timelywe give you a generic product for "extras-devel"09:19
GeneralAntillesIt's likely to go unmaintained.09:19
timelyyou file your first bug for each product there09:19
timelyand we hunt down assignees09:19
timely(mostly you, actually)09:19
timelywhen you find an assignee and have filed a bug, then someone (gan/myself) creates a product09:19
GeneralAntillesCan Extras go at the top of the page?09:19
timelythis way products only grow when bugs are reported09:19
Stskeepsi'm a bit against product requirements for extras nomination, as there might be porters like qwerty12 who do general ports and it is in such a wide range that it might not fit in a single product.. how about bugs against maintainers? :P09:20
Stskeeps / uploaders09:20
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, requirements?09:20
timelyproducts=packages w/o versions09:20
timelyStskeeps: what i'm offering is that the first bug is filed in 'extras-devel'09:21
timelyand then someone like me creates a product09:21
timelyhaving seen demand09:21
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: as in that if a package needs to go into extras you have to link it to a garage product?09:21
timelyinstead of someone like me creating all possible products and most of them being empty and a waste of time09:21
Stskeeps.. if i understand this conversation09:21
timelyStskeeps: oh, that's different09:21
GeneralAntillesOK, new order is: Extras repository for community applications, SDK releases, Repositories for SDKs09:21
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, these are bugzilla products.09:22
GeneralAntillesGarage has projects, Bugzilla has products.09:22
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Stskeepsah, ok09:22
Stskeepsfair enough, i misunderstood :)09:22
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GeneralAntillesAnybody want to think up a clever title?09:23
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GeneralAntillesmaemo.org - Repositories ?09:24
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timelE61isure09:25
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GeneralAntilles.installs were new in Bora, correct?09:31
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Stskeepshttp://everythingrandom.net/post/50714879/via-joy-of-tech09:54
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GeneralAntillesOK, updated: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/repository.maemo.org.html10:05
GeneralAntillesHTML's default tab length is ma-ma-ma-massive.10:06
qwerty12I personally go to the pool folder than I do the dists10:06
GeneralAntillesIgnore the URLs10:07
GeneralAntillesThey're mostly just copy-paste monstrosities10:07
GeneralAntillesformatting and layout for now.10:07
qwerty12Ah, ok, fair enough :)10:07
qwerty12Seems to work for me imo :)10:08
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GeneralAntillesExtras-devel needs to go in there, too.10:09
GeneralAntillesGonna make it a bit tall. . . .10:09
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GeneralAntillesUpdated again: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/repository.maemo.org.html10:23
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X-FadeLooks great ;)10:26
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GeneralAntillesJust need some .installs, now.10:29
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Stskeepsok, i officially don't understand my screen anymore :P10:30
GeneralAntillesWell, see, it's a big grid of these tiny things called pixels. . .10:32
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Stskeepsyeah, i know that :P10:34
GeneralAntillesNo wonder my web browsing experience was sucking10:35
GeneralAntillesforgot to switch back to Monaco 910:35
* GeneralAntilles <3 Monaco 910:35
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JaffaMorning, all10:58
Stskeepsmorning Jaffa10:58
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StskeepsJaffa: (from my perspective) it could be interesting to have the new council determine what it's role in the Mer project is/what it ought to be - as Mer does fit under the maemo.org auspices (sp)11:07
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JaffaStskeeps: there should be a thread about this on maemo-community shorlty11:12
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StsN801k11:15
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JaffaFeel free to chip in thre11:20
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StsN801on the one day i forget my tablet headphones there's a primary school class in bus..11:23
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x29ahaaahaaa </nelson>11:27
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StsN801lo yerga11:29
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yergaMorning11:30
b0unc3_good morning11:31
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Myrttigood morning!11:58
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_berto_hi Myrtti12:04
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Stskeepsqgil: your jaiku URL on amsterdam summit has awkward <i>Summit</i> in it12:26
floriangood morning12:27
Stskeepsmorning florian12:28
Stskeepsflorian: you can probably utilize http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Common_Packages#Current_package_status in the GSoC OE+Maemo idea - the packages are modified to be built in modern OS'es/build environments12:30
Myrttihappiness is warm fuzzy slippers in the morning. srsly.12:30
StskeepsMyrtti: but coffee comes in on a great second12:30
GeneralAntillesI read that as "spiders" for some reason.12:31
Myrttiyeah, I bought a 6-cup Bialletti moka pot on Saturday, some decent fairtrade espresso roast and a thermos mug that holds the whole pot and some milk12:31
Myrttibliss12:31
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Khertan_At_WorkHello !12:37
Stskeepslo khertan12:37
Khertan_At_Worklo Stskeeps12:38
florianStskeeps: yes indeed, that would be a pretty good base.12:42
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Stskeepsflorian: from my perspective the OE stuff would be interesting for those systems we cannot reliably put a ubuntu base on, at least12:48
Stskeepsand we increase the portability of the hildon/maemo code12:50
florianStskeeps: Yes indeed - we should try to make sure to keep things binary compatible. It shouldn't be hard to achieve - some people build packages for Maemo using OE already.12:51
florianStskeeps: Portability is quite a problem currently, every single bit that improves Maemo portability will be win for it.12:52
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timelE61ihey14:00
timelE61iAnyone here familiar w/ code analysis tools?14:00
Stskeepsonly from theoretical pov :P14:00
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, I'm asking about another batch of t-shirts to spread around.14:01
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timelE61ithere's a tool depends.exe (dependency walker)14:01
timelE61iWhich lets one find out which external functions are provided by which libraries14:02
timelE61iIt's kinda  a cross between nm and ldd/ld14:02
timelE61iI'm wondering if there's a similar tool for unix14:03
timelE61iMy guess is there isn't and that i'll basically have to run nm on everything and use perl/python to answer questions14:03
Stskeepsor use libelf14:04
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lcukapt-get bacon15:20
lbttimelE61i: when building debian packages there is some debug info that says "needlessly depends" and seems to be based on library function analysis. Clearly something in the packaging is doing this - maybe a starter for 10....15:20
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lcuklbt, maybe thats a difference between the makefile and the /debian contents15:21
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lbtdon't think so - it's quite detailed IIRC - sounds like an analysis15:22
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lcukoooh15:24
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lopzhi15:27
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salty_horsehi. I just received an email from hudson.fremantle@nokia.com about a successful build of microb-engine. it was sent to me and many others. anyone know what's it about?15:29
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lcuksalty_horse, at a guess its a mail telling you about a successful build of microb-engine15:31
lcukdont take my word for it though :D15:32
salty_horseit kind of looks like spam, since it was sent to 136 addresses.. some appear to be mozilla devs, and googling tells me the project is related to maemo15:33
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lbtsounds like your email got added to an autobuilder15:34
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salty_horselbt, an autobuilder which lists all of its recipients in CC? :)15:34
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salty_horsenever mind. I'll see if it happens again15:34
lbtit's highly unlikely to be 'spam'15:35
lbtas such15:35
lbtsalty_horse: but if it does happen again and you want help getting off the list then someone here may be able to help15:35
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salty_horseyou're probably right. it points to a LAN ip address15:36
salty_horsedo you know who Hudson Fremantle is?15:36
GAN800Codename for a Fremantle autobuilder, probably.15:37
andre__i'm sure it's not a real person. but fremantle is the name of the next software version15:37
andre__(at least i can't find any dev with that name in the list)15:38
salty_horseah :)15:38
salty_horseanyway, thanks for the help15:39
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lbtandre__: are you a libosso ossowm dbus guru?15:45
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andre__lbt, no. maybe in next life. but still i'd love to read your question though i won't be able to answer it :-P15:51
hhahlohi, i usually keep volume off but now i boot volume on, and heard linus voice? if i recall right stock diablo doesn't speak at linus voice? what caused that, virus ;)15:52
lbtah, I thought you were, hence the ping - question posted to maemo-dev :)15:52
lbtor drugs15:52
Stskeepshhahlo: no, just insane clone-to-SD authors15:53
hhahlohehe, cool15:53
hhahloi was really surprised :)15:55
lcuknot half as surprised at linus. waking up one morning squashed in a little nokia tablet15:56
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ccookeHuh. Has the fluff about the Next Device actually calmed down finally, then? Or am I just not looking in the right places? :-)16:45
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aquatixlcuk: :)16:46
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Stskeepsccooke: time to start new rumours!16:49
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lardmanccooke: yep, people are now excited about the sw on the next device, as a stand-in16:53
Stskeepslo wazd16:53
Stskeepswazd: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-ui3.png :)16:54
ccookelardman: even that seems to have died down quite a bit. I guess the interested folk are busy porting stuff, giving the naysayers a break from things to react to ;-)16:54
lardmanccooke: yeah, though we're all waiting really, wanting to see the finished product (both hw and sw)16:54
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ccooke*nod816:55
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ccookeIt never ceases to amuse me, though, how many people get outraged about this stuff :-)16:55
lardmanwhat? the delay? ;)16:56
ccookeEvery single little delta between the next system and the n800? ;-)16:56
lardmanwell people need something to fill their time :)16:57
ccookeI guess so...16:57
lardmanI'm sure I'd be doing the same, more than I am, if I weren't pretty busy16:57
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ccookeOh, yes... I keep meaning to ask.17:08
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ccookeI've not yet been able to find any reference to the stability of Mer. Is it actually ready for (semi-)general use?17:09
Stskeepsit's not 1.0 (day to day usable) just yet :P17:10
ccookeheh. If you're using 1.0 to mean 'usable', you might want to state that somewhere. We use hundreds of not-yet-and-likely-never-1.0 software every day :-)17:11
Stskeepsbut it is in good development17:11
Stskeepshehe17:11
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ccooke(I remember when 1.0 actually *meant* something... :-)17:12
Stskeepsccooke: as in you can put it on your tablet and use it without contemplating booting to maemo :P17:12
Sho_ccooke: there's a 0.9 review on lwn.net that calls it "not ready for end-users yet"17:12
Sho_(or something along those lines)17:12
ccookeSho_: Ah ha. thanks.17:12
Sho_ccooke: http://lwn.net/Articles/322693/17:13
Stskeepsccooke: best way to see it really is to try it out - we've made huge leaps, and 0.11 will be a huge leap as well17:13
Sho_ccooke: Stuff like email, instant messenging, etc. are missing, I guess17:13
ccooke(I use my tablet too much to put a dev environment on it, unfortunately)17:13
Sho_(personally, though, I don't use email on the tablet, and prefer Pidgin for IM anyway)17:13
lardmanccooke: me too17:13
ccookeI use the built-in IM. it does the job very well.17:14
lardmanbut with some instructions about which repos to add and which packages to install it can be made usable17:14
ccookewhat's more, I use it for SIP17:14
Sho_Stskeeps: Working on Mer? Kudos - nice to know my N810 will have an upgrade path17:14
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ccookeI'll be buying the next device when it's out. I'll probably put Mer onto the n810 after that.17:14
jeremiah_moo17:15
StskeepsSho_: yeah, i guess i'm lead developer, but i think of myself of just a faciliator of the project bringing together the pre-existing efforts in the community17:15
jeremiah_seen X-Fade17:15
Stskeeps'lo jeremiah_17:15
jeremiah_Hey Stskeeps, How are you?17:15
Stskeepsjeremiah_: i'm good, had first masters thesis meeting with my advisor today and it went fine17:15
Stskeepsit's nice that you feel your brain waking up and feeling intellectual again for once :P17:15
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Excellent, glad to hear it!17:15
jeremiah_Good for you.17:15
lardmanjeremiah_: ~seen you mean?17:16
Sho_Stskeeps: Nice, rock on then :-) I don't doubt my tablet will end up running Mer pretty soon17:16
jeremiah_BTW, you will most like be in Copenhagen?17:16
jeremiah_lardman: Yes, that is what I mean. :)17:16
jeremiah_~seen X-Fade17:16
Stskeepsjeremiah_: yeah, wouldn't miss it17:16
lardmanthis is where infobot is asleep17:16
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Excellent, I will be there too. :)17:16
infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo (7d 12h 47s). Has said a total of 57 messages. Is idling for 6h 50m 14s, last said: 'Looks great ;)'.17:16
* lardman would like to be, but is getting married that weekend, not sure my wife-to-be would be happy with me delaying things17:17
aquatixlardman: congrats in advance :)17:18
lardmanthanks17:18
* Stskeeps wonders when he and the fiancee will find time for the wedding17:18
lbtmy suggestion...17:18
lardmandon't do it too soon, really cramps your evening programming time17:18
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Stskeepslardman: ah, we already live together for 1 1/2 year17:19
lbtpick a date you can remember - we both have birthdays on 20th - so 20th it was.... then find a suitable 20th17:19
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lardmanStskeeps: Same here, just lots of extra planning/organising now17:19
lardmanlbt: lol17:19
Stskeepslbt: so far relationship start at 16/2, and engagement day on 1/1, so nice numbers17:19
Stskeeps:P17:19
lardmanlbt: or get it tattoo'd on your palm?17:20
aquatix22/7 is also nice, approximating pi ;)17:20
lbthey - she just laughs 'cos I never remember how many years17:20
aquatix(and summer weather and stuff generally)17:20
lbtits >10 < 2017:20
jeremiah_X-Fade: Ping: Can we put a new ssh key on g.m.o?17:20
Sho_Stskeeps: Btw, is Mer compatible with Maemo themes?17:21
jeremiah_So I 'cloned' my debian machine in virtualbox so I could take it with me as I travelled.17:21
StskeepsSho_: somewhat. fact is that we're applying a new hildon desktop ui17:21
ccookeOh, god, wedding planning. We're nearly at our fourth anniversary and I can still bait my wife out by suggesting we organise another get-together "like the wedding" ;-)17:22
jeremiah_But, when you do that, Virtualbox changes the disk ID, and linux uses a UUID for the disk - so my vdi machine won't boot!17:22
StskeepsSho_: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-ui3.png17:22
jeremiah_heh, we are going on our ten year anniversary trip this year. :P17:22
Sho_Stskeeps: Basically my question aims at my love for the LCARS themes ;)17:22
StskeepsSho_: personal launcher maybe.. but yeah, LCARS is difficult with this layout17:23
* Myrtti blinks at men talking about wedding planning17:23
StskeepsMyrtti: geeks love their girls :P17:23
Sho_Stskeeps: personal launcher?17:24
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StskeepsSho_: well, the problem is that in both fremantle (i think) and mer we have done away with the sidebar17:24
Stskeepsand a sidebar is pretty usual in LCARS themes, isn't it?17:24
Stskeepsif i remember my trek corretly17:25
Stskeeps+c17:25
aquatixMyrtti: geeks never cease to amaze ;)17:25
Myrtti"can't you just go to the magistrate and get the official stuff done, roast a pig, give people paper plates and mugs, then start getting people drunk?"17:25
Sho_Stskeeps: yep, indeed17:25
Sho_Stskeeps: so you mean for LCARS I'd need to run a personal as in alternative launcher?17:25
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StskeepsSho_: no, as in, make some hack to get a similar experience .. i honestly don't know17:26
Stskeepsisn't there some Trek-acceptable non-sidebar theme? ;)17:26
ccookeStskeeps: huh. So all apps are now full-screen all the time?17:26
Stskeepsccooke: semi - there's always the marquee17:26
Sho_Stskeeps: ah well, we'll see ... I'm sure the LCARS theme authors will probably switch to Mer at some point as well ;)17:26
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ccookeStskeeps: ah ha.17:26
Stskeepsccooke: see the png above17:26
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ccookeStskeeps: so it's now a case of showing or hiding that?17:27
Stskeepscorrect17:27
Stskeepsso you have the whole 800px width17:27
Stskeepsrotation is also a lot nicer i guess17:27
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Stskeepswhole 640px17:27
xntStskeeps: is there a mer installer, for x86, like a disc I insert into a machine?17:27
Stskeepsxnt: no, it takes a bit more effort to make something like that :P17:28
Stskeepsxnt: there's a guide for it on Mer/Documentation17:28
xntso I have to extract the fs?17:28
Stskeepsyeah17:28
Stskeepsand set up grub17:28
ccooke(Today appears to be 'interrogate Stskeeps' day)17:29
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xntso I have to hook up an external cd rom to my eeepc download and extract the mer rootfs and setup grub17:29
xntfrom a live cd17:30
StskeepsSho_: anyhow, noone says the sidebar has to be a hildons style sidebar17:30
ccooke(and as such...) Stskeeps: This is starting to get really quite interesting. From what I've read, Mer coexists nicely with Meamo? Might be worth grabbing a copy as long as I don't have to run it during the day :-)17:30
Stskeepsccooke: yeah, dual-boot17:30
Stskeepsyou can flash to jffs2 too but it's not that good yet17:30
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StskeepsSho_: lcars seem to implicate the toolbar is on the left in an application17:31
ccookeRight. Time I spent a while researching dual boot on the tablets, then :-/17:31
Sho_Stskeeps: well, check out http://synthesize.us/LCARS_PADD17:31
StskeepsSho_: yeah, i know, ian hangs out in here occasionally17:31
Sho_Stskeeps: http://synthesize.us/Image:PADD_media.png - the existing ITOS UI caters well to LCARS17:32
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Stskeepsyes.. i wouldn't be surprised if the sidebar was influenced by trekkies17:32
Stskeeps:P17:32
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xntqwerty12: :P17:33
StskeepsSho_: we'll see what happens. maybe we'll morph the code to take multiple hildon desktop layouts. i dunno17:33
qwerty12xnt, lol, what? :P17:33
xntmaEMO :P17:33
qwerty12Oh, hehe :p17:33
xntheh17:33
Sho_Stskeeps: Well, just keep us poor Trekkies in mind while you develop Mer. Consider we currently have no Trek series on TV, and the upcoming movie looks to be rather bad. The internet tablets are our only source of joy! ;-)17:33
StskeepsSho_: i used to have entire TNG,DS9 and voyager laying around :P17:34
Sho_Oh, I have all the DVDs as well ;)17:34
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ccookeBah. Sometimes I wish I was less of a server-side type. There's a lot of interesting work going on here, but I doubt I can be any help :-/17:35
Stskeepsi doubt i can find interest in it, but i wouldn't mind a more pervasive computing angle to tablets. i mean, why shouldn't my tablets be a part of my existing home infrastructure17:36
Stskeepsbut that's maybe a longer term goal17:36
ccookeStskeeps: Interesting idea.17:36
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ccookeIt's one that's already somewhat there, though17:36
Stskeepsyeah17:36
xntStskeeps: will advanced-power work in x8617:36
Stskeepsand why shouldn't my two tablets running mer be able to cooperate17:36
ccookeme and my wife use our tablets as remote controls, for instance17:36
Stskeepsxnt: no17:36
xntso I can't see my batter status?17:37
xnt*battery17:37
Stskeepsxnt: with a bit of rewrite maybe17:37
xntok17:37
Stskeepsand why shouldn't my tablet be able to use the power of the sheevaplug in the corner :)17:37
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Cool idea17:37
ccookeStskeeps: well, with avahi...17:37
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Do you have a sheevaplug?17:37
Stskeepsjeremiah_: no, but i am considering to get one17:37
MyrttiI so want one17:38
ccooke(it's often occurred to me that [lots of people] could do a lot more with avahi.17:38
Myrttior the vigan whatever with xubuntu17:38
ccookeWith a few standardised protocols, say, you could get an automatic remote control interface working17:38
Stskeepsmy current shopping list is rx-51, beagleboard (for home), sheevaplug and touch book17:38
Stskeeps:P17:38
ccookeand that would be *fun*.17:38
jeremiah_I want one too.17:38
Stskeepsccooke: one thing i find interesting is that OSSO/hildon has support for hibernation17:38
Stskeepswhy shouldn17:38
Stskeeps't this be usable for moving state of the app to another machine17:38
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Touch Book?17:39
jeremiah_Have to ask google17:39
Stskeepsjeremiah_: yes, you have to17:39
ccookeStskeeps: um. Because that's a horrifically difficult proposition? :-)17:39
Stskeepsjeremiah_: http://gizmodo.com/5162584/always-innovating-touch-book-is-part+netbook-part+tablet-open-source-frankenstein17:39
Stskeepsccooke: sortof. people are researching cyber foraging at my work atm17:39
Stskeepsthings like python stackless looks extremely interesting for stuff like this17:39
ccookehibernation might get you able to move your entire running image from one identical machine to another, but you're still at serious risk of data loss if your storage isn't identical17:39
ccookehowever, there have been tools to move unix *processes* between systems.17:40
Stskeepsyeah.. and that's the problem of posix :)17:40
jeremiah_Well, can't one do iSCSI and virtual machines with VLAN?17:40
Stskeepsjeremiah_: think mobile beagleboard, part laptop, part tablet17:40
ccookethey're fraught with dangers and I haven't seen one that was actually maintained in the last five years, but they did work (for a limited class of things :-)17:40
jeremiah_Stskeeps: But big, with a sorta weak processor. OMAP 317:41
Stskeepsjeremiah_: yeah - and (at least) 10-12 hour battery lifetime17:41
Stskeeps.. for 300$17:41
jeremiah_Yeah, that is actually a good deal17:41
Stskeepsi want one. i dont want it to replace my tablet, but it would be useful for work17:41
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aquatixStskeeps: indeed17:46
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andre__sigh... people closing bug reports as invalid because it's less work than correctly reassigning them... nice attitude :-/17:49
Jaffaandre__: nice17:49
JaffaX-Fade/bergie: seen the "duplicated hearts/favourites" on p.m.o and the right-side of /news/?17:50
JaffaOh no. My fault.17:50
JaffaJS turned off.17:50
bergieJaffa: yeah, it could degrade more nicely to those situations17:51
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jeremiah_How waoping17:51
jeremiah_whoops17:51
jeremiah_how was linkoping_17:52
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jeremiah_Sorry I couldn't be there.17:52
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z4chhany gsoc mentors here able to answer a question about the maemo student proposal template?17:52
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andre__z4chh, please don't ask to ask, just ask the question itself (though i'm not a mentor)17:53
z4chhandre__, well im looking more for someone to raise their hand..so i can pm them, it is kind of personal :P17:54
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andre__ah, ok17:54
z4chhthanks though, ask to ask can be highly inefficient :D17:55
z4chh!ask17:55
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z4chhspeaking of ask to ask...this is a funny question17:59
z4chhcan i ask a question about asking a question?17:59
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rkirtiz4chh, andre__ : May I join in if there are guidelines being discussed.I am applying as well and would be glad to get some pointers.18:00
z4chhrkirti, you a student?18:00
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rkirtiz4chh, yes. [Computer Science, undergrad]18:01
andre__if i remember correctly vdvsx was the main guy working on that, but not sure18:01
z4chhhe is the org admin18:01
z4chhi was going to shoot him a pm, but he no here :'(18:02
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lfelipez4chh: I'm helping to admin as well, what do you need ?18:26
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jeremiah_Do people use Gizmo?18:36
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jeremiah_Or do people not really care about video on their NITs?18:36
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thopiekaris someone of you familar with chroot?18:37
till-sometimes ppl use gizmo18:37
till-but the image quality is bad18:37
thopiekaraaah jeremiah_..18:37
thopiekarI waited for you sooo long...18:37
jeremiah_thopiekar: Hi there18:37
* mgedmin would say that video on my NIT doesn't work well enough for me to care about it18:38
jeremiah_thopiekar: Sorry, I have been traveling and haveing hardware issues18:38
mgedminthe google talk video calls work fine, but only if you recipient also has a NIT18:38
* Stskeeps can't view video, or use canola in a reasonable manner on his n800 18:38
jeremiah_mgedmin till- okay, thanks for the info18:38
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thopiekarthere is a package in extras-devel called graphviz.. it conflicts with libltdl3 (libtool)...18:38
* mgedmin lost an r in his last sentence18:38
mgedmingraphviz conflicts with libtool? hwy?18:39
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thopiekarI would like to fix that but sources of graphviz from ubuntu need mesa18:39
thopiekarthere are files in graphviz which are also in libltdl..18:40
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till-i used gizmo mainly to call home while i was on vacation18:40
mgedminI'm sure you can remove that from build-depends: and the package will build18:40
mgedminmaybe with some tweaking of the ./configure line in debian/rules18:40
till-but with my mobile :)18:40
jeremiah_mgedmin: Hmm, that is what makes maemo weird, it should not build if it does not have build-depends satisfied.18:40
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jeremiah_That is what build-depends is for, creating a dependency on a package at build time18:41
mgedminwell, I'm assuming graphviz in maemo extras-devel was not build from pristine ubuntu packages then18:41
jeremiah_mgedmin: What would it have been built from instead?18:41
* mgedmin installs graphviz with no conflicts18:41
mgedmina good question18:41
jeremiah_:)18:41
mgedminask the person who built it18:42
jeremiah_So thopiekar, did you add a build-depends?18:42
qwerty12mgedmin, nope, binaries uploaded in a "source package" with cp in its rules...18:42
mgedminI'd guess the package from debian, with maybe patches18:42
thopiekarI mailed with the maintainer of graphviz he told me that he rates him self as a noob in debianizing..18:42
mgedminouch and yes, that explains it18:42
mgedminYIKES, graphviz's deb ships /usr/lib/libltdl.so.3 !!!18:43
thopiekarjeremiah_: no but I'm thinking of making a newer package of ubuntu or debain..18:43
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* mgedmin apt-get removes it asap18:43
jeremiah_thopiekar: Take it from debian first18:43
jeremiah_Try and build it in scratchbox18:43
mgedminwould mud-builder help here?18:43
mgedminit's supposed to make porting debian packages to maemo easy18:44
thopiekarI'm myself maybe not better than the maintainer of graphviz but I use others source-folders instead of making mayself starnge ones..18:44
jeremiah_I have little experience with mud-builder so I can't answer that.18:44
mgedminI don't know if it can do things like remove build-deps18:44
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jeremiah_Removing build-depends should never work.18:44
mgedminI once built a vim package with mud, but it was a horrible package (version number: 70.  Just '70'.  no 7.0-1 or anything)18:44
jeremiah_That line is designed to specify which package you need to build your package.18:45
mgedminjeremiah_: it works when those deps are optional for the upstream sources18:45
mgedmin./configure often checks for the presence of various libraries18:45
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jeremiah_Then they should not be in build-depends18:45
mgedminand builds optional components when those are present18:45
mgedmindebian wants to build those optional components always18:45
mgedminit all makes perfect sense, really18:45
mgedmindebian splits optional parts into different .deb files, but wants to build all of them from a single source package18:46
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mgedminotherwise it would be building the same sources again and again18:46
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mgedminbut if maemo doesn't have mesa (or opengl at all, at least currently), then we never want to build the optional opengl backend for graphviz18:46
mgedmintherefore maemo graphviz package shouldn't depend (or build-depend) on mesa18:46
mgedminand if debian/rules explicitly says ./configure --with-mesa, then we should strip that out18:47
mgedminthat's assuming graphviz even uses autoconf18:47
mgedminI haven't checked18:47
mgedminI just sort of assume every self-respecting unix tarball uses autoconf nowadays18:47
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jeremiah_Most tarballs do use autoconf it seems18:49
* qwerty12 cries at midori using waf18:49
jeremiah_I don't understand thopiekar why you would want graphviz on the tablet. Do you have a use case?18:49
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Stskeepsqwerty12: wtf is waf18:50
thopiekarnot actually jeremiah_ I only need it for a package needed for pulseaudio..18:51
qwerty12Stskeeps, Some python autoconf wannabe18:51
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qwerty12I remember the shit I had to do to get it to accept an extra define last time :(18:51
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andre__geez. where in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/ is the metalayer-crawler package?! am i blind, or am i just stupid?18:53
* thopiekar hates it working with corrupt packages..18:53
qwerty12andre__, it's closed source18:53
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andre__qwerty12, i know, but there's still a non-free section18:53
qwerty12Oh, you want to reinstall it?18:54
qwerty12It's in the update repo18:54
andre__theoretically :-P  (= not me myself)18:54
andre__update repo?!18:54
andre__i want something http'ish :-)18:54
qwerty12Going through the update repo means knowing nokia password but Eero has attached a newer version to a bug somewhere18:54
andre__that wasn't browsable iirc... :-/18:54
qwerty12Download the packages file ;)18:54
andre__yeah, that's the bug i refer to. ok. so i can't help... hmmpf18:55
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* xnt hates his camera19:11
* Myrtti hates her brain19:11
xnt:P19:11
* Stskeeps hates the lack of coffee, but is getting strangely addicted to this tea his gf brought home.19:11
MyrttiI've got my own moka pot ♥19:12
* xnt hates asus for soldering on the ssd onto the motherboard19:12
Myrttia Real Bialletti one ♥19:12
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* xnt has compiz working out of the box for some strange reason19:13
xnton my eee19:13
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xnthttp://xceleo.com/mer/eee-images/DSC02490.JPG ???19:15
xntstskeeps: mer+compiz?19:15
* qwerty12 learns his lesson: don't leave dist-upgrading your scratchbox targets to the last minute.19:16
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Veggenqwerty: I once had to let my Linux laptop compile a kernel while sitting in my backback on my way to a networking talk that depended on that kernel :)19:18
qwerty12Ouch :)19:18
xntVeggen: :P19:18
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xntin your backpack?19:18
xntdidn'y it overheat19:19
Veggenxnt: nah, it wasn't a very new and powerful one.19:19
Stskeepsxnt: not impossible, but then newer hildon-desktop would be more useful19:19
* xnt will never put a laptop on in his backpack, especially one compiling a kernel19:19
xntStskeeps: ok19:19
xntbrb19:20
* xnt has to go to the router room to connect his ee to the internet to download the mer x86 image because ubuntu doesn;t have atheros drivers by default :P19:21
xnt*eeePC19:21
xntoh wait19:21
xntdamn usb cd :P19:21
fireunI put my laptop in a padded sleeve, it would certainly overheat if it was compiling a kernel there19:22
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Stskeepsheh, this is almost for a movie19:24
Stskeepsin .dk, there's a criminal case.. a woman who is a terminal cancer patient19:24
* xnt once put his powerbook in his backpack, with the insomnia app (shuts off screen only) and I had an ssh session open , when I took it out it was extremely hot (as hot as a gpu heatsink when running a game such as crysis :P))19:24
Stskeepswho starts poisoning people around her19:24
Stskeepsincluding her husband19:24
xnt:P19:25
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* xnt has to run an ethernet cable from his router room to his eeepc 19:25
* xnt wishes that his parents would let him put the router in his room :P19:25
Stskeepsheh19:26
Stskeepsi had a cable upstairs and that was that19:26
xnt:P19:26
Stskeepsi even didn't have a cable until i was like 16 or something19:26
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xntIm 14 and i have fios, who know when im 16 Ill have a 4GBPS up/down connection :P19:28
mgedminno wifi?19:29
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xntyeah19:29
xntno wifi on my eee19:29
xntbut I have 3 wifi aps :P19:29
mgedminah, atheros19:29
mgedminwon't new ubuntu release have free drivers for that one?19:30
* xnt hates asus for not putting an orinoco card on the eee19:30
* mgedmin thinks he might have heard something in passing19:30
xntmgedmin: 8.10?19:30
mgedmin9.04 perhaps19:31
* xnt just booted up 8.10 on his eee19:31
xntwell...19:31
mgedminintel wifi drivers are kind of nice19:31
xntbrb19:31
mgedminat least when you run in managed mode19:31
mgedminI've no idea if ap mode is even possible19:32
xnt:P19:32
qwerty12Doesn't madwifi do atheros? At least madwifi was used on my old Netgear DG834GT.19:32
mgedminand adhoc had problems talking to my n81019:32
mgedminqwerty12: madwifi does atheros; madwifi isn't free (big binary blob in the middle), therefore probably disabled by default in ubuntu19:32
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mgedminhey, doesn't ubuntu have all the restricted drivers on cd? installable with a single gui mouse click?19:32
qwerty12mgedmin, aha, thanks, I was always under impression it was fully free19:33
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mgedminwell, where I say "cd", read "the sd card that you copied your cd onto"19:33
mgedminqwerty12: I think it may have recently rewritten to be fully free19:33
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mgedminmadwifi.org is b0rked19:34
mgedmins/.org/.net/19:34
infobotmgedmin meant: madwifi.net is b0rked19:34
mgedminwait, it's .org in the url, but .net in the page title19:34
mgedminwaaah, b0rked19:35
xnt:P19:35
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jeremiah_wow, gizmo video quality is pretty bad19:37
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till-yep :)19:37
qwerty12To be fair, the tablet isn't much cop wrt video playing anyway and the included camera is a joke :)19:38
jeremiah_Well, I suppose it is more of a proof of concenpt for the next device. :)19:38
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xntqwerty12: so the next nit will have an hd quality cammer19:42
xnt*camera19:42
qwerty12Yeah, I can't be arsed with rumors personally, I like to see the real thing :)19:42
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xntok :)19:43
* xnt is hungry19:43
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* xnt gets a snack19:43
z4chhshouldn't you be in school xnt >.<19:45
xntz4chh: I don't have school, its a rating day :P19:47
xnt*today19:47
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z4chhxnt, where do you live?19:48
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xntz4chh: NY19:49
z4chhcool :D19:49
z4chhin ohio with bman xD19:49
xnt:P19:49
z4chhim in*19:50
khertan_mibbit_fHello !19:50
z4chhkhertan_mibbit_f, sup man19:50
* khertan_mibbit_f is using mibbit on fennec19:50
khertan_mibbit_f:)19:50
khertan_mibbit_fseems to work better than  on micrpb19:50
xntkhertan_mibbit_f: hi19:51
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khertan_mibbit_fdoes there is some python guru in the room ?19:51
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xnt:P19:52
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khertan_on_microfennec is unusable with this stuid gesture19:56
khertan_on_microand the delete key binded to previous page is really a stupid idea19:56
khertan_on_microhow i delete a char on a word !19:57
khertan_on_microreally silly idea19:57
xnt:P19:58
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jeremiah_khertan_on_micro: Which version of fennec?19:59
jeremiah_Did you pull it from the repos?19:59
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xntis it alpha or beta?20:00
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xnt:P20:00
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asasakispeaking of, jeremiah_ X-Fade did you get a chance to get the beta in extras? =)20:05
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bensonemoli20:06
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bensonsry, wrong window20:07
Stskeepslo benson20:07
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wazdHey everybody :)20:15
wazdhttp://lotro.ucoz.ru/omw.html <- it works!)20:15
wazdNot dynamic though :(20:15
Stskeepswazd: thumbs up :)20:17
jeremiah_asasaki: Not yet, I think we are still waiting from word from Mozilla20:18
jeremiah_wazd: Two thumbs up!20:18
asasakijeremiah_: i think stuart gave the thumbs up in email last week20:18
jeremiah_Not sure if Niels has added the beta yet.20:18
asasakik20:18
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jeremiah_asasaki: Well, I had heard from Pavlov and from someone else that they were going to wait20:19
jeremiah_I think they are shooting for this week20:19
jeremiah_I am going to have to upload it by hand20:19
jeremiah_And no one has contacted me about it yet so I don't think it is ready20:19
asasakithat was me =) we're ready... we released on ftp.mozilla.org last week20:19
jeremiah_asasaki: Cool! :)20:19
jeremiah_Great, I had heard something about documentation, but I guess that is resolved?20:20
asasakihttp://www.mozilla.org/projects/fennec/1.0b1/releasenotes/20:20
jeremiah_asasaki: Fabulous.20:20
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asasakistuart was working on the above link20:20
asasakianyway, when you get a chance. i know it's late over there.20:20
jeremiah_asasaki: I have traveled to the US, so it is not late :)20:21
jeremiah_I am in EST20:21
jeremiah_I would like to co-ordinate with X-Fade however, so perhaps it will wait until tomorrow?20:22
jeremiah_He is currently not around.20:22
ShadowJKWhat fennec is in extra right now? apt-cache show fennec says "1.0b1"20:22
Pavlovah, yeah, i think email was sent to x-fade20:22
Stskeepsyeah, i saw a fennec in extras20:22
asasakijeremiah_: sounds good, thanks20:23
Pavlovjeremiah_: x-fade may have pushed it to extras20:23
Pavlovsorry for confusion!20:23
asasakioh, cool20:23
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jeremiah_No problem, I thought he might have20:24
ShadowJKI have a vague memory of one of the browser things doing something dubious and not uninstalling cleanly20:24
jeremiah_I was travelling so I think he went ahead and uploaded.20:24
ShadowJKwas that fennec or was it something else? maybe the webkit engine for microb20:24
jeremiah_I will test it now actually.20:25
PavlovShadowJK: i don't think it is fennec, but who knows20:25
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Myrttire skibur's quit message: NO IT'S EVEN20:25
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yergafennec is in extras-devel from the 18th20:28
yergahere: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/f/fennec/20:28
jeremiah_Hmmm.20:29
jeremiah_Is that the latest?20:29
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timelE61iyOu guys only wanted releases20:29
timelE61iNot nightlies20:29
timelE61iSo hopefully they aren't releasing releases more often than  monthly :)20:30
Pavlovthat looks like the right builds20:30
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jeremiah_I thought that was supposed to go to extras, not extras-devel.20:31
jeremiah_But I may be confsed.20:31
jeremiah_confused even20:32
jeremiah_Have to talk to X-Fade about it20:32
Pavlovyeah, was supposed to be in extras20:32
Pavlovheh20:32
Pavlovwe'll sort it all out soon enough20:32
jeremiah_Pavlov: Yes indeed. :)20:32
timelE61idid you guys figure out how to get it there w/o ruffling too many feathers?20:32
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jeremiah_timelE61i: I suppose, my feathers certainly are not ruffled, but whomever has any ruffled feathers, please speak up!20:33
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jeremiah_=)20:33
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jeremiah_Has anyone installed fennec from extras-devel?20:43
ShadowJKyes20:43
ShadowJKi just did20:43
mgedminyup20:43
ShadowJKhelp!20:43
mgedminyes?20:43
ShadowJKit's stealing focus like crazy20:43
ShadowJKor was20:43
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mgedminhuh20:44
jeremiah_It is not showing up here in apt or in AM. Hmmm20:44
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ShadowJKI switched to xterm, i typed one or two chars, then xterm froze, fennec forced itself ontop20:45
mgedminheh20:45
mgedminmicrob also likes to do that20:45
mgedminprecisely twice20:45
ShadowJKi switch back to xterm, manage to type anothe few chars, and fennec pops up again20:45
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jeremiah_That is annoying.20:45
ShadowJKfennec did it about 12 times before it stopped :(20:46
ShadowJKYes, extremely20:46
jeremiah_fennec may be downloading items in the background and when it completes it lets you know, by stealing focus20:46
mgedminwell, 12 times is excessive20:46
* Stskeeps dislikes stealing focus20:46
mgedminactually, even 2 times is 2 times too many20:46
jeremiah_stealing focus is bad20:47
Stskeepsnotification, maybe, but not focus stealing :P20:47
mgedminbut there's probaby some holy book called "UI Spec" in a Nokia shrine somewhere that requires it...20:47
mgedminflashing taskbar icon would be sufficient20:47
mgedmin"now the page is fully loaded"20:47
ShadowJKfirefox does it too20:47
mgedminon desktop modern window managers disallow focus stealing by default20:47
Stskeepsrevolution time, get out your pitchforks20:48
Stskeeps:P20:48
mgedminsome of them do it badly20:48
mgedmine.g. compiz lets firefox steal the focus, but not raise the window20:48
ShadowJKbut most windowmanagers on linux desktop proper have focus theft prevention specifically for firefox20:48
mgedminso I get a focused background window and I cannot see where my keys go20:48
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ShadowJKoh and it hasnt loaded the pahe i tried to load :)20:50
mgedminyes, that's the most irritating thing: it steals focus before the page is ready20:50
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ShadowJKI cant figure out how to scroll in a page (this sentence interrupted 5 times by focus theft)20:54
ShadowJK620:54
jeremiah_Sounds like time to file a bug or two20:55
ShadowJKhm20:55
asasakiyup20:56
mgedminpanning?20:56
mgedminnow, if you figure out how to select text in an input box, tell me20:57
mgedminit's all panning as far as fennec is concerned20:57
mgedminor, better yet, how to get it to use a larger font size20:57
ShadowJKit scrolled a bit with stylus tap-drag but then it went completely white and reloaded the page and placed me at the top again20:57
mgedmin+/- (or double-tap) work fine for zooming, but horizonal scrolling is incompatible with reading text20:57
StskeepsShadowJK: heh, directly missing microb again? ;)20:57
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ShadowJKi might add that microb loads the same page faster ;)20:58
ShadowJKI got no response from the zoom keys20:59
mgedminI have a feeling that fennec spends a noticeable bit of cpu scaling fonts (or perhaps images)20:59
mgedminwhat page are you looking at? and how near are you to running out of RAM?20:59
mgedminthat's the other thing fennec is good spending time on: swapping20:59
sp3000ShadowJK: it thinks you double-tapped, probably21:00
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ShadowJKtablet got somewhat warm on the back so it was probably swapping21:01
jeremiah_It would be good if you guys passed some of this info back to mozilla, this is a testing release and they will want the feedback.21:02
ShadowJKI think it needs to come with a tutorial video on how to use the interface21:02
jeremiah_ShadowJK: Good idea actually21:03
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Stskeepswazd: do you know of any tshirt sites that could make tshirts not unlike the mer wallpaper + logo, btw?21:06
asasakiShadowJK: there are a couple videos here: http://blog.pavlov.net/2009/03/17/fennec-1-beta-1/21:07
Stskeepsi know it's probably easier to do in hand with batique but ..21:07
Stskeeps:P21:07
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born2wonderhi all, my fn key isnt recognized in latest ubuntu (b-mans latest instructions), i tried instaling xkb-data from mer repo but that breaks my sys-env-x as it requires a newer version of xkb-data. any ideas?21:08
born2wonderfn key isnt recognized in xev as well21:08
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Stskeepspoke b-man to learn what version dependancies have of consequences :P21:09
born2wonderok thanks21:10
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ShadowJKmicrob feels heavenish now :)21:14
* ShadowJK guesses he needs more ram21:14
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VDVsxhello :)21:18
Stskeepslo VDVsx21:18
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wazdStskeeps: nope, sorry(21:30
Stskeepswazd: k21:31
Stskeepsalternative would be dark blue tshirt with logo i guess21:31
lcukyo! VDVsx21:32
lcukdid you beat them up about the remote control thing last night21:33
VDVsxlcuk, nah21:33
VDVsxI don't like universal remotes too :)21:33
* lcuk has a tcp remote control that just works here21:34
lcukit would be nice to add some other connection methods to it one day :)21:34
lcukbut i have no need just yet21:34
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VDVsxlcuk, but talking about TV,Video, hi-fi, do you like a universal remote for everything, or just one for each of those :) ?21:39
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VDVsxsome of the discussion was about it :P21:39
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lcukVDVsx, sometimes i wish i had a remote for everything :)21:41
xnt:P this is the time I get home from school :)21:41
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qwerty12_N8007:41? Your school sucks :P21:42
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xntqwerty12_N800: over here its 3:40 :P21:52
qwerty12_N800lol, gathered :D :P21:53
xntIm in NY where are you?21:53
qwerty12_N800London :)21:53
xnt:P21:53
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joyrideris it normal that i still can't login in the maemo.org website when i created and actived my account on garage.maemo.org like yesterday22:00
qwerty12_N800maemo.org & garage accounts are separate iirc22:00
joyrideryes but it doesn't allow one to create one on maemo.org it says to create a garage account and it should allow you to login in maemo.org after a few minutes22:01
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joyriderwhich it obviously doesn't (given it's an automated system) might be normal if it's not automated22:02
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VDVsxjoyrider, do you have upper cases chars in your garage login ?22:07
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joyriderVDVsx no i used all lower case22:29
VDVsxjoyrider, and when you log in maemo.org, what message do you got ?22:30
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joyriderUsername or password was invalid.22:31
joyriderNote to new users22:31
joyriderIf you just created your account in garage.maemo.org, try again in a few minutes.Thank you.22:31
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joyrideri can login in to garage just fine with same username and password though22:31
VDVsxhumm,but garage works fine for you ?22:32
joyrideryes22:32
VDVsxyou have to talk with x-fade :P22:33
joyriderok22:33
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soussouhi22:48
soussouis there any one???22:48
VDVsxhello soussou22:50
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NeocognitronHello, I have an apparently odd issue when compiling the "gtk_helloworld" test program in Scratchbox/Maemo23:23
Neocognitronthis is my error message upon attempting to compile: http://pastebin.com/d23e39b6923:24
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Neocognitronand then scratchbox exits (logout)23:25
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Terr[593]ola23:29
Terr[593]alguien habla español23:29
Neocognitronany bites?23:30
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mgedminI want a remote control for a N810 :-)23:30
mgedmincan I tell the osso media player to start playing an internet radio station over dbus?23:30
qwerty12_N800set up anyremote & use your phone :P23:31
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timeless_mbpmgedmin: it should be possible23:35
mgedmindbus is not easily introspectable from the cmdline23:35
mgedminit'll be shorter for me to get my ass off the couch and walk to the other side of the room and push the button23:36
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mataharihi all23:36
qwerty12_N800mgedmin: dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_media_server /com/nokia/osso_media_server com.nokia.osso_media_server.video.play_media string:"http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/realaudio/media/r1live.ram"23:36
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* qwerty12_N800 is glad to see he has shortened his time to make dbus-send cmds23:37
mgedminhmm23:37
mgedminwhen you add a multimedia bookmark, you get a dropdown choice: internet radio, or video stream23:38
mgedminyet here I see you call video.play_media with a url that looks like radio23:38
mgedminI suppose it doesn't matter to the backend?23:38
mataharii am having problems with dualbooting my n810. It worked for several months now, but today i switched the nokia off, and when switching it on again, it hangs at the Nokia screen with the progress bar. I am botting from external sd Card. I already took the card out of the nokia and run e2fsck on my laptop and indeed it found some broken inodes, but after fixing them it still won't work. Is there something i can do further?23:38
mgedminhow long does it hang?23:38
mgedminperhaps it's simply the jffs2 garbage collector being busy?23:39
NeocognitronAny ideas on what is wrong with my scratchbox/maemo installation?23:39
mataharimgedmin: it hangs about 1 min and then reboots automatically (i can see the bootmenu again and select a different entry)23:39
mgedminI've seen that with the jffs2 gc23:39
mgedminit blocks the cpu so hard the watchdog reboots it23:39
Neocognitronscratchbox crashes with a segfault upon attempting to compile a simple GTK program (gtk_helloworld).23:39
mgedminI think mine fixed itself after a couple of reboots23:40
mataharimgedmin: that means?23:40
timeless_mbpmatahari: pulll the battery23:40
qwerty12_N800mgedmin: I guess not, this is just one of the default feeds and it's just an real audio stream if memory serves me correctly23:40
timeless_mbpthen put it back23:40
mataharimgedmin: well, i am sure i rebooted it about 20 times now23:40
mgedmintry the battery thing then23:40
Terr[593]skyhusker23:40
mataharitimeless_mbp: also with pulling battery outside it won't change23:40
mataharior do you mean removing the battery when booting (before it hangs)?23:41
mgedminif that fails, maybe it's time to pull out the flasher and disable the watchdog?  the wiki had instructions somewhere...23:41
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Terr[593]someone knows skyhusker23:41
qwerty12_N800matahari: tried booting with the charger plugged in? odd but such a simple action has saved my ass so many times23:42
florianre23:42
florianTerr[593]: a little bit... why?23:42
mgedminmy accesspoint probably implements power saving incorrectly... ssh to a n810 is painful23:43
matahariqwerty12_N800: you are my king for today23:44
matahariqwerty12_N800: IT WORKED!!!!!!!23:44
matahari:-)23:44
mataharithanks a lot23:44
qwerty12_N800hehe, np :)23:44
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* RST38h has finally got a new laptop23:45
mataharithanks a lot guys! now i can go to bed and sleep calm :-)23:46
RST38hUgly little thing, all fake aluminium with little shiny parts23:46
mataharibye!23:46
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Neocognitronanyone here with experience building apps in scratchbox?23:49
fiebradsucks.net23:51
Stskeepsooh. OSS Canola23:51
Stskeepsthe end times must be near!23:51
fieefin <323:51
Neocognitronor at least this: If I am having a problem with the dev-env, and I need to compile my own programs, but I am not modifying Maemo, --  should I subscribe to the developer's mailing list or the user's?23:52
qwerty12_N800-developers23:53
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Neocognitroncool, thanks23:53
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