IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-03-22

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* xnt notices that dreamhost is slow today00:00
* b-man takes note to never put his n800 next to his bead again00:00
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xntb-man: http://blog.xceleo.com/?p=24 Updated :)00:01
z4chhyo b-man, sup?00:02
z4chhglad to be done with ogt's? hahaha00:02
z4chhsophomores >.>00:03
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xnt:P00:04
b-man16my tablet randomly locked up and rebooted XP00:04
xnt:P00:04
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b-man16xnt: awsome btw00:05
xntmy ps3 does that when a game locks up, it three beeps then reboots00:05
xnt:P:P00:05
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b-man16hmm :P:P:P00:06
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* xnt would try the new instructions but his nit is still confiscated :(00:08
b-man16X(00:08
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Stskeepsxnt: what on earth did you do? :P00:08
b-man16he brought it to his gym class and his teacher caught him when it fell out of his pocket00:09
xnt:P00:09
Stskeepsah, trying to impress the girls00:09
xntStskeeps: :P00:09
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b-man16xnt: are your parents going to get it? :P00:11
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xntb-man16: well im not sure yet :(00:11
b-man16:(00:11
* xnt will probably die of boredom if he doesn't get his nit back00:12
b-man16do your parents know?00:13
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Stskeepsbesides that, tablets are probably not happy about sweat00:14
b-man16lol00:14
xntyeah00:14
b-man16hmm :(00:14
xntI don't play a lot in  gym00:14
xntI mostly bike in the summer00:14
* b-man16 does the same00:16
xntb-man16: where do you keep your n800 when you go to gym?00:16
* b-man16 doesn't have gym - but i keep it in my backpack00:16
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* b-man16 does a LOT of running sports though XD00:17
xntI don't reccomend that you keep it there, I know a girl who had 3 psps (1 her own, 2 her friends), and they got stolen00:18
xntXD00:18
b-man16xnt: i keep my backpack locked away00:18
b-man16;)00:18
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xntand if someone steals the bag?00:19
xntoh ok neverminf00:19
* xnt rereads the post00:19
* xnt has crappy school issued locks00:19
xntb-man16: have you seen this? http://lifehacker.com/5177329/synapse-brings-elegant-jabbergoogle-talk-to-linux00:20
xntbrb00:20
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b-man16heh00:22
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* xnt is running ubuntu jaunty notifications00:23
b-manuser-password stage? :)00:23
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* xnt wants synapse maemo/mer/ubuntu port :)00:26
xntwell it probabbly arlready runs on ubuntu00:26
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b-mansynapse?00:28
b-manoh00:28
xnt*facepalm* http://lifehacker.com/5177329/synapse-brings-elegant-jabbergoogle-talk-to-linux00:28
xntoh ok :P00:29
deepwaveOk, weird question... but... Is there anyway to open up the application menu on a N810 using only the keyboard?  My touchscreen died. :(00:29
xnt:(00:29
Stskeepsdefine died?00:29
b-manouch :(00:30
deepwaveAs in the touchscreen doesn't react at all to the stylus.00:30
deepwaveI think I'm going to need to send the device in for repair or replacement.  But I'd really like to get some of the data off it, before I do.00:31
Stskeepsand you're not just locked or something silly, right? :P00:32
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deepwaveNope.  I wish that was the case.00:33
GeneralAntillesProbably a loose cable.00:33
Stskeepsdeepwave: and i don't presume you had bootmenu installed with telnetd on?00:34
deepwaveEarlier I had the problem where the touchscreen would need to be recaliberated every time I unlocked it.00:34
deepwaveI have ssh installed on it.00:34
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Stskeepsbut it doesn't auto-connect?00:34
Stskeepsor ssh on the bootmen00:34
Stskeepsu00:34
* b-man is curious about LFS (linux from scratch)00:35
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deepwaveWell I'll try to connect to it via ssh... if I can remember the default password for it.  But I was wondering if there was some weird key combination I could use to open up the app menu and just use the arrow keypad and keyboard from there.00:36
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Stskeepsalt-f? dunno :P00:37
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LoialOtterHi all... has there been any progress getting volume levels fixed for OS2008HE on the 770?00:38
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deepwaveAlt-F?  But there is no ALT key on an IT's keyboard. :P00:41
b-manxnt: have you ever herd of LFS?00:41
xntb-man: http://xceleo.com/synapse/ :)00:41
* xnt is googling00:41
* xnt is interested00:42
b-man:)00:42
b-manit's whare you can make your own linux distribution00:43
xntI want to create a distro which looks like the windows my school uses, so I can use linux right under the sysadmins nose :)00:43
b-manXD00:43
xntAdd two accounts one is just like my school account00:43
xntthen the second one which is a killer compiz desktop00:43
b-manlol00:44
xntor I can Create xnt-linux and have the stealth version00:44
b-manxnt-linux hmm :)00:44
xnt:P00:45
* xnt thinks of a cool linux distro name...00:45
xntb-man: what distro do you use btw00:45
b-manubuntu00:46
b-man XD00:46
xnt:P00:46
deepwavexnt: How about CLD!  Cool Linux Distro :P00:46
xntsame here00:46
xntdeepwave: :P:P:P00:46
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deepwaveAs a name that is.00:46
xntI want something like stealth linux00:46
xnt:P00:46
b-manbluestar? :P00:47
xntwell ill see00:47
* b-man thinks of a high-tech name00:48
xnthttp://paranoidlinux.org/ have you seen this00:48
* xnt notices that the site has a 500 error :(00:48
b-manyes, i've seen pandora00:48
b-manoh, wait00:49
xntb-man: you mean paranoid linux :P00:49
Proteousoh hai00:49
xntb-man: http://craphound.com/littlebrother/Cory_Doctorow_-_Little_Brother.htm00:49
b-manyeah, i was about to correct myself00:49
xntCC book00:49
xntProteous00:49
xnthi00:50
xntb-man: hae you read it00:50
xnthttp://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/00:50
ProteousLINUX X-13 is the coolest!!00:50
xnt*have00:50
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* b-man is reading it now00:50
xnt:P00:51
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b-manhmm00:51
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* b-man really wants to try LFS00:54
* xnt is trying it 00:54
xntwell is going t o try it in 3 mins00:54
* b-man is getting the sorce00:54
xnt*to00:54
xnt:P00:54
b-manbrb00:55
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deepwaveStskeeps: Thanks.  I managed to ssh into the device, and I'm just copying over my /home.  So everything is cool.00:58
Stskeepsgood :)00:58
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xnt|lfsdeepwave: :)00:58
b-manxnt: lol00:58
xnt|lfs:P00:59
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b-man:P:P00:59
* b-man starts writting the test script01:00
xnt|lfs:P01:03
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b-manhmm01:11
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* b-man hates his slow connection01:15
xnt|lfs:P01:16
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b-man...eta 50 m 15s :P01:24
b-man9%01:25
xnt|lfs:P01:27
* xnt|lfs is glad he has fios and an xps01:27
xnt|lfs:P01:27
* xnt|lfs is still reading01:27
xnt|lfs:P01:27
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b-man:P01:28
xnt|lfsb-man: do we have to create a new partition?01:29
* xnt|lfs is too lazy to repartition :P01:29
b-manfor lfs? you can probibly just make an image01:30
xnt|lfsso mkdir /dv/lfs/fs01:30
b-manshure01:30
xnt|lfsthen later tar it?01:30
b-manyup01:30
xnt|lfsand extract to externel hdd and boot01:31
xnt|lfs:P01:31
xnt|lfsok01:31
b-manxnt: i'd just make an image file to boot it - so you don't have to repartition your drive01:32
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* b-man hopes it will build for armel01:34
b-manit should01:34
b-manhmm 23% at 95kb/s - eta 44 m 36 s :P01:36
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* b-man eats dinner01:38
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xnt|lfs:P01:50
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* xnt|lfs 's computer is running at full speed01:51
xnt|lfsfans01:51
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xntok Im going to do this on monday with my poweredge01:52
b-mani'm back02:00
* b-man notices his download has stalled at 66% :P02:00
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xnt:P02:01
b-manupdate: download resumed - now at 70% :P02:02
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b-manxnt: compiling? :)02:10
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xntwell I was compilling gawk02:25
xntIm rewatching http://www.hak5.org/episodes/episode-502 I want to make a hakhouse rover :)02:25
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GAN800That's fun. Trying to play a movie crashed x.02:27
xntsame here :(02:27
xnt:P revision3 needs to update their player code02:27
xnt:P again02:28
b-manhmm :P02:28
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xntrebooting...02:39
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b-manwb xnt02:43
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* b-man goes by the book and builds binutils first02:46
* b-man will be back02:49
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fireunhmm, usually when you upgrade, you expect faster video03:06
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*** b-man is now known as FireFox1605:09
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FireFox16~seen xnt05:14
infobotxnt is currently on #maemo (2h 31m 12s), last said: 'rebooting...'.05:14
FireFox16:P05:14
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FledgeAnybody up for helping me out a bit?05:19
z4chhwith what? >.<05:20
FledgeI'm messing with my nokia n810 and I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm trying to get ROMS onto it to use with the VGBA emulator and I don't know where to put them.05:21
FireFox16hello, z4chh05:22
* FireFox16 is in the middle of attempting to make his own linux distribution from scratch :)05:23
FledgeSo does anybody know what to do?05:23
z4chh/home/user/MyDocs  should work fine05:24
z4chhFireFox16, very nice, LFS?05:24
FireFox16yes :)05:24
FledgeWell, I plug it in with the USB cord it came with, and it comes up with a set of folders that I can't even see from inside of the device. I don't know how to get to the folders that the OS uses.05:25
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z4chhyou probably see your sd cards05:26
z4chhyou can put the files on there to05:26
z4chhand then when you open the file with the emulator...browse to either interal memory card or external memory card05:27
FledgeNo, I don't have one in there right now. Basically VGBA is looking at just the nokia thing itself, and it lists "documents, games," etc and folders like that, but it doesn't list SD cards or anything05:27
Fledgeand when I plug it in it gives me a set of folders I don't see on the device anywhere05:27
* FireFox16 is getting annoyed by gcc extraction issues >.<05:28
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z4chhwhat folders do you see?05:30
z4chhi always use scp to transfer files >.<05:30
FledgeWell maybe I should try that then05:31
Fledgehow do I do that05:31
z4chhdo you have sshd running? (openssh installed?)05:32
FledgeHaha I have no idea what that means, I'm a windows user and this nokia is the only linux based device I've ever come into contact with05:33
ferdinand_heh05:33
FledgeWhich is why I have no idea what I'm doing05:33
ferdinand_:)05:33
Fledgeand why I figured you guys could help :)05:33
FireFox16lol05:33
ferdinand_install maemo openssh server package, use winscp or putty scp from windows machine to transfer file05:34
FledgeSweet, I'll try that.05:35
Fledgethanks05:35
ferdinand_i imagine you'll also have to create a user before doing that05:36
ferdinand_i don't actually own any of the nokia devices yet, just researching right now :)05:36
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Fledge1So how do I connect to the n810 with PuTTY?05:52
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tank-manback to your original question ...  the file manager hides the files inside ( like in windows hiding the files on c:) and only shows you the files in /home/user/.MyDocs (I think)05:56
tank-manFledge105:56
Fledge1VGBA gives me these folders to look through for roms05:57
Fledge1Audio Clips05:57
Fledge1Documents05:57
Fledge1Games05:57
Fledge1Images05:57
Fledge1Video Clips05:57
Fledge1Shared Folders05:57
Fledge1and then when I plug it in with usb, all that's in the drive that pops up is05:57
tank-mando you have a sd/microsd ?05:57
Fledge1.apt-archive-cache, backups, map, tmp, video, videocenter, .swap05:57
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Fledge1I have an SD card right next to me but I don't think it fits those05:58
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tank-manwell when you plug it in with usb, it looks like you have a microsd card insde right now05:59
tank-manis it?05:59
Fledge1No, there's nothing in it06:00
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Fledge1On stuff I read there was mention of an internal memory card and an external memory card06:00
tank-manive never pluged mine into my usb port on pc except to flash it06:00
z4chhsame06:00
z4chh:D06:00
Fledge1What would you suggest for the roms then06:01
Fledge1Do I need a microsd?06:01
tank-manFledge1, make a windows shared folder and on your n810, it should be under "Shared Folders"06:01
tank-manshared folder on your desktop pc running windows xp06:02
Fledge1Alright, and then afterwards is there a way to pull them from the shared folder onto the device?06:02
tank-mandrag and drop from the file manager06:02
tank-manor select the files you want to copy, pick copy from menu, then paste where you want06:03
Fledge1ok06:03
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jaem_N810hey folks06:19
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z4chhhi06:21
FireFox16hello, jeam06:23
* FireFox16 really needs to sleep -_-06:26
FireFox16g'night all06:26
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jaemso... are there are any alternative OSes available for the N810 that are suitable for general use yet?07:07
jaemor even casual use?07:08
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jaemlol... good to see this in a howto: "Warning: This would save your data only, you'd get killed either way. If the data is more important than your life it would be stupid for you to rely on the information presented in this amateur document."07:09
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JaffaMorning, all10:21
Stskeepsmorning Jaffa10:21
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timelE61ifLedge: so... The n800 had two mmc slots. And usb behaviors relate to it11:14
timelE61iFor the n810, one of those slots was replaced by a non-removable media11:15
timelE61iThis is partially to simplify how things like maps work11:15
timelE61imaps would never fit on the "root filesystem", instead by default they're stored on that non-removable volume11:17
GuySofthowever my OS never really fit 250MB of the internal anyway, so i had to install on the 2GB internal card my OS11:18
timelE61iThe same general restrictions apply to the other folders you see when you plug your device in w/ usb11:18
GuySofti would not be surprised if anyone else did it11:18
timelE61itHe last important detail is that whichever "drives" are exposed over usb are not available to the device until it disconnects.11:20
timelE61iCan you imagine what would happen if that applied to the root file system?11:20
timelE61ioH... One other fun detail...11:22
timelE61i /home/user/MyDocs is the basic root of what you see in the tablet's filepicker. But the tablet is multi-lingual, so if you asked it to speak Finnish, it wouldn't show you a folder named "Games". The real folder's name is .games11:24
timelE61iAnd the display name for the folder is controlled by a translator11:25
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Stskeepsmorning MoonTiger12:00
MoonTigerhey!! :)12:00
MoonTigerjust got back from the coast12:00
MoonTigergot to pack ready to move there in 2 weeks12:00
MoonTiger:)12:00
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Stskeepshehe, sounds like a good plan12:01
MoonTigeryah we found a place ON the beach12:01
Stskeeps:)12:02
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GeneralAntillesWas there ever a more appropriately named company than Urban Tool?12:06
MoonTigerhey lcuk12:07
MoonTiger:)12:07
lcukhiya MoonTiger \o hows tricks12:07
MoonTigerjust told Stskeeps ... im moving to the seaside in 2 weeks ... living ON the beach :)12:07
MoonTigercant get much better12:08
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lcukitooh not bad12:09
lcuk-it12:09
MoonTigeryah madrid didn't work for me12:09
MoonTigerso the south coast it is12:09
lcukare you living in a real house or a beachshack12:09
MoonTigera real apartment with 2 bedrooms and all that stuff ... can get dsl there12:09
MoonTigerhas electricity12:10
MoonTiger:)12:10
timelessBCN? :)12:10
lcukheh, and at high tide you even have running water :D12:10
MoonTigerhaha12:10
MoonTigerits literally 25yds from the ocean12:10
MoonTigerup a high enough bank that flooding should be no worries12:11
lcukinvest in a snorkle12:11
MoonTigerbesidea we're on the 1st floor12:11
timeless0 based?12:11
MoonTigeryup12:11
MoonTiger:)12:11
MoonTigeryou can see some pics of the town on my website ... gagfoot.com/lauren12:12
timelesswow12:13
MoonTigercool huh?12:15
timelessyes12:15
lcukyou're moving into the amphitheatre !!??!!12:15
MoonTigerhaha yah12:15
MoonTigerthats actually cartagena ... we're moving to almeria12:15
MoonTigerwe are members of couchsurfing.com so we travel around12:16
MoonTigerand we let ppl come stay for free too12:16
lcuki think crashanddie is a couchsurfer too12:16
MoonTigerawesome12:17
lcuksounds like a fun way to live12:17
lcukor at least a cheap holiday12:17
MoonTigercheap holidays for us12:17
* Stskeeps notes to himself he doesn't understand hildon desktop theming anymore.12:18
MoonTigerand we get to meet cool ppl12:18
* lcuk notes to himself he never understood hildon theming12:18
lcukis it the theme, or the desktop app using the theme thats the problem12:18
Stskeepsnot entirely sure12:19
lcukwhats goin wrong12:19
Stskeepsjust the background of the app switcher buttons12:23
Stskeepswe're slightly molesting the existing app switcher so12:23
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KhertanHello !12:33
joyriderhey12:34
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MoonTigerhey khertan! :)12:38
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edbartoshhi, do you happen to know whom to ask for help with maemo wiki? I'm unable to login there with my garage creds.12:53
Stskeepshmm, probably X-Fade and co12:55
edbartoshthanks12:55
edbartoshanother question: where GSoc ideas are suppose to be discussed? I only found couple of messages in maemo-developers ml. Is there any special place for that or students are just not interested?12:56
* Stskeeps pokes VDVsx for that12:57
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VDVsxedbartosh, here is a good place, the ML is also a good place12:58
VDVsxlardman|gone, lcuk, fill your GSoC mentor profile asap, some changes will happens tomorrow  :)13:00
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edbartoshVDVsx: where to fill it?13:04
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VDVsxedbartosh, if you are a GSoC mentor, you should have instructions for that in your e-mail :)13:05
edbartoshNot yet. But I'd like to be. What should I do?13:06
VDVsxedbartosh, is a little bit late now :(13:06
edbartoshOops. Why?13:07
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VDVsxcheck you the GSoC timeline: http://socghop.appspot.com/document/show/program/google/gsoc2009/timeline13:08
VDVsxs/you/out13:08
VDVsxgrrr13:08
VDVsxMentoring organization application deadline -> 13 March13:09
edbartoshI can see only deadline for mentoring organization, not for mentors.13:09
VDVsxedbartosh, but if you are a mentor for other org, you can also join us13:10
StskeepsVDVsx: i see a 15 apr deadline that may apply better? i dunno13:10
edbartoshI'm not. I'd like to be a mentor for maemo.13:10
edbartoshI have an idea and would like to add it to maemo GSoc ideas list and so on.13:11
VDVsxedbartosh, I can try to do something13:11
Stskeepsedbartosh: openssh port is much appreciated btw :)13:12
edbartoshJust in case it's needed. I'm long term maemo-community member.13:12
edbartoshStskeeps: Thanks. How about evince and autobuilder :)?13:12
Stskeepsedbartosh: hehe, i've never touched evince and autobuilder is a good thing too ;)13:13
VDVsxedbartosh, pm ?13:13
* Stskeeps continues hacking away at hildon-desktop13:14
edbartoshVDVsx: gtalk?13:14
X-Fadeedbartosh: I'm here..13:15
VDVsxedbartosh, vdv 100 at gmail com13:15
suihkulokkiHi edbartosh :)13:15
edbartoshVDVsx: OK. bartosh at gmail.com13:15
edbartoshsuihkulokki: Hi13:15
suihkulokkiI think the Apr 15th (when proposals are sent to google) is the deadline for mentors13:16
suihkulokkiAtleat that would match the case laste year (I was mentoring in debian project)13:16
edbartoshCool, I'm not late then!13:17
VDVsxsuihkulokki, nop, who review the proposals and select them in that case ? :P13:17
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edbartoshwazd: Hi!13:18
wazdedbartosh: oh! Hello there!)13:18
Stskeepsmorning waz13:19
Stskeepsd13:19
Stskeepswazd: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/merui2.png , http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-ui3.png13:20
Stskeeps(warning: work in progress)13:20
wazdhttp://lotro.ucoz.ru/omw_demo.html13:23
wazdworking demo! xD13:23
qwerty12Pretty :)13:24
wazdIt can't load weather from the website but beleive me it really works on my desktop)13:24
wazdI'll try to figure out why there's the problem13:24
suihkulokkiVDVsx: mentoring organization (so some mentors have to be signed up already)13:25
wazdSpent whole day learning ActionScript 3 :)13:26
derkaiserhello all~13:29
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, what's the word on hardware keyboard detection?13:29
wazdStskeeps: well, I think close button on the right is too far away from right border :)13:29
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hmm?13:29
wazdderkaiser: hello13:29
Stskeepswazd: yeah, there's something weird going on, it's very appearant on one of the screenshots13:30
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, it's kinda a pain having the vkb pop up all over the place on a device that has a hardware keyboard and doesn't have a touchscreen. ;)13:30
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ah, yes13:30
Stskeepsat least the enter button works now in that scenario, heh13:31
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: the problem is really that all the things we assume to be normal maemo behaviour of VKB is actually closed source :P13:32
Stskeepsso someone needs to step up and work on replacements13:32
GAN800 Bleh, that13:32
Stskeeps.. or wait for a thumb keyboard13:32
GAN800's obnoxious13:32
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GAN800The h-i-m open sourcing was less generous than it was made out to be then, eh? ;)13:33
GAN800We should harass them about it a bit13:34
Stskeepswell the framework is fine13:35
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Macerhm. i wonder how difficult it would be to distill dxm from this bottle of couth syrup13:36
Macerit has 15mg in it... it probably isn't worth it :)13:36
Maceroh.. that's per tablespoon13:37
Stskeepsnext up: children and youth cheesing13:40
JaffaHeh, the 118 247 advert uses the Magical Trevor theme :)13:41
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GAN800Stskeeps, you want to imagify the images in your desktop spec?13:51
StskeepsGAN800: the wiki is acting up and showing stuff in the rendered page that isn't in source atm, heh13:51
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Stskeepsi'm going to clean it up when it actually fits what we have13:52
StskeepsJaffa: ooh, congrats on chair13:52
JaffaStskeeps: ta :)13:53
Macer next up: children and youth cheesing13:53
Macerhaha13:53
GeneralAntillesYou can all go sit on Jaffa now. ;)13:53
Maceri just thought it was kind of funny that this stuf has such a high concentration of dxm13:53
Macerthere was a guy a long time ago who was selling pills of it on ebay13:53
StskeepsGAN800: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Artwork13:53
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, use thumb instead of 100px13:54
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it makes awkward boxes13:54
Stskeepsbut if you want to shine it up, feel free - i'm not a wiki master :P13:55
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Stskeepsjust wanted to upload it before it got lost in a horrible radikal.ru crash:>13:55
GeneralAntillesFine, fine. :P13:55
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Stskeepsmorning slonopotamus14:14
slonopotamusif 15:15 can be treated as morning... then morning, Stskeeps :)14:15
slonopotamusStskeeps, i still wonder how you compile x-v-o without stdint.h include :)14:16
Stskeepsslonopotamus: no clue. it does. :P14:17
Khertanhttp://wiki.maemo.org/images/7/7a/Mer_Theme_Outline.jpg <- is it a mockup or the actual look ?14:17
slonopotamusStskeeps, but it can't :)14:17
slonopotamusStskeeps, maybe your gcc is cheating?14:18
StskeepsKhertan: mockup, but http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-ui3.png14:18
Stskeepswe're in the midst of implementing it14:18
Khertan:)14:19
Stskeepsand http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/merui2.png14:19
wazdhttp://lotro.ucoz.ru/omw_demo.html <- I guess noone can see actual weather here?(14:24
Stskeepswazd: correct14:24
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lcukwazd, thats very impressive but how will it work on device14:25
wazdand it writes "transfering data from xoap.weather.com..." on the bottom14:25
wazdlcuk: it's not for the device)14:25
wazdlcuk: it's UI prototyping14:26
Stskeepslcuk: test it? :P14:26
wazdI laggs very much on nokia btw)14:26
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lcukit shouldnt, its only because you are doing a solid transformation14:26
wazdlcuk: it's because of heavy alpha-channeling14:27
lcukits not that heavy14:27
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wazdlcuk: for flash on the tablet it is :D14:28
lcukalso, the direction feels wrong somehow, when you click the mini desktop widget shouldnt the background zoom in slightly14:28
lcuk(its VERY effective btw)14:28
wazdAnyway, it's not for tablet :)14:29
wazdlcuk: no it shouldn't :)14:30
lcukzooming in to focus on the content?14:31
lcukor have you taken it as stepping back to see the bigger picture :)14:32
wazdit acts like maemo5 does now)14:33
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Stskeepsheh, reading about chernobyl disaster.. happened at 1:23.45am O_o14:37
lcukwazd the apps themselves dont but i see your point - the menu is layered, id missed that effect :)14:38
RzRStskeeps: sounds like if it was joke that turned bad14:39
lcuk:O sts14:39
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StskeepsRzR: nah, just makes me wonder if there was some debugging code gone bad :P14:39
ShadowJKcode? you think they had code...14:39
lcukwazd, if its not for the tablet whats its for then o_O is the new device using flash by default14:39
StskeepsShadowJK: debugging code in the handswing.. :P14:40
lcukthe egyptians had code, it just wasnt driven by silicon14:40
ShadowJKWasn't the issue that they put a bunch of coal powerplant operators running a nuclear powerplant, and had them conduct tests which involved throttling the plant up and down repeatedly (which that type of plant can't cope with), and disconnecting itself from the external grid to see how long they could supply their critical systems with the inertial power stored in the generators?14:40
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lcuki thought it was catalog of problems and no single action caused it14:41
ShadowJKright14:41
lcukat least now they have a massive wildlife reserve :)  watching the deer jumping over houses and getting caught in the 25 foot spiders webbs is impressive14:42
ShadowJKactually there are less insects than before14:43
ShadowJKBut there's a large amount of wild horses roaming free14:44
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rahul_coolhello everybody15:17
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rahul_cooli have problem in installing sdk15:18
rahul_coolwhen i gave dis command   sudo sh ./maemo-scratchbox-install_X.X.sh -u user15:19
rahul_coolit says   sh: Can't open ./maemo-scratchbox-install_X.X.sh15:19
rahul_cooli am using ubuntu 8.1015:21
rahul_coolany one here15:22
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ShadowJKThat's funny, Nokia's device specs page claims N800 has qwerty keymat :-)15:31
ShadowJKI guess besides things missing after they redid the site, now there's things outright wrong too :/15:32
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joyriderhey guys, i've setup a small repository with my game deb's now i created a .install file which works fine but since my games depends on libsdl_gfx and lib_sdlttf i was wondering if it's possible to add multiple repositories to the .install file ? (like my repository where the actual game is and the maemo extra's repositry where the dependencies can be located from)15:40
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joyriderso that when somebody opens the install file both my repo as the maemo extras repo gets added to their repo list15:40
VDVsxrahul_cool, it should be related to exec premissions15:40
ShadowJKWhat about putting the games into maemo extra's? :-)15:41
joyrideri would if i knew how :)15:41
rahul_coolno i have changed it15:41
qwerty12_N800~upload-extras15:42
infobotwell, upload-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras15:42
VDVsxrahul_cool, remove the ./15:42
VDVsxrahul_cool,  sudo sh maemo-scratchbox-install_X.X.sh -u user15:42
rahul_coolok i try15:42
qwerty12_N800joyrider: since you've packaged the games properly, you're already 1/2 way there15:42
joyrideri see will check out the page15:43
rahul_coolcommand not found15:44
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rahul_coolsorry something is going on15:44
VDVsxrahul_cool, sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0.sh -u USER  sorry :(15:45
rahul_coolok15:45
rahul_coolcant open15:46
VDVsx??15:46
VDVsxrahul_cool, http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo5_alpha_installation/15:47
Stskeepsdid you download maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0.sh? :P15:47
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VDVsxrahul_cool, are you trying to install the maemo SDK for diablo or for fremantle ?15:49
rahul_cooli m new to this ...15:51
rahul_cooli m just trying to install the environment so that i can see the project in ehich i m intersted15:52
VDVsxrahul_cool, you have to follow one of this tutorials: http://repository.maemo.org/stable/4.1.2/INSTALL.txt (diablo) or http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo5_alpha_installation/ (fremantle)15:53
VDVsxmore info here: http://maemo.org/development15:53
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joyriderok requested upload privelidges will have to wait now :) guess i'll remove my repo then it's of no use if i'll get to upload to maemo extra's15:54
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joyrideri do have one more question how does one get an icon to show in the deb file itself i mean some of the package show an icon in the package manager whereas others show a default icon15:56
qwerty12_N800joyrider: base64 encode a 26x26 png and add it to your control with the field of "XB-Maemo-Icon-26"15:57
joyriderok thanks15:57
qwerty12_N800XB-Maemo-Display-Name is also nice15:58
VDVsxjoyrider, more info here: http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node14.html#SECTION00142700000000000000015:59
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joyriderok thanks guys15:59
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rahul_coolCould not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable) E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?16:08
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rahul_coolCould not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)16:09
Jasu_Mare you running apt-get or aptitude or synaptic etc?16:10
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rahul_cooli  sudo apt-get update16:10
Jasu_Mthere can only be 1 apt-get/synaptic/other package management thingie running simultaneously16:11
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Jasu_Mthe maemo sdk installer runs apt-get too16:11
rahul_coolok...16:13
cpmgdbHi.  I've just been prompted to upgrade easy-deb-chroot to 0.9.17 and it fails to install.  Running apt-get from a terminal returns the following: easy-deb-chroot.postinst: line 133: syntax error: end of file unexpected (expecting "fi").  Anyone else see this?  Thanks.16:16
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thopiekar_vmhi again..16:24
thopiekar_vmwhere is jeremaid ?! ( X-Fade )16:25
thopiekar_vmI'm still waiting for him a whole week long to fix the graphviz|libltdl (libtool) problem..16:27
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thopiekar_vmhi lcuk16:27
lcukhi \o16:27
lcukslonopotamus, you hollered yesterday16:27
slonopotamuslcuk, did what?16:28
lcukwanted me16:28
qwerty12_N800Called for him, G.16:28
slonopotamusah16:28
thopiekar_vm:P16:28
* lcuk laughs at the qwerty_translation_service16:28
slonopotamuslcuk, i segfaulted drawing app in liqbase by applying doubletouch to it :)16:29
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* lcuk raises an eyebrow, did it give a "BAD TOUCH!" error message?16:29
lcukwhat do you mean applying doubletouch16:29
slonopotamusnope, just died16:29
lcuklocked up completely?16:30
slonopotamuserr... i put 2 fingers on screen16:30
lcukor you crashed it!16:30
lcukoh that wont have been the cause16:30
lcukthat just moves the cursor16:30
lcukdeeper issue maybe16:30
lcuki did the testing for multitouch on there before applying it - it just lets you see where the COG is, its not danger16:30
slonopotamushmm. doesn't crash anymore16:32
* thopiekar_vm has fresh sources from fremantle and ubuntu to upload to mea into diablo's extras-devel, such as glib, bluez and libasound.. but jeremaid idn't on to test these packages before I can upload them..16:33
thopiekar_vm*isn't16:33
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Stskeepsthopiekar_vm: that sounds like a recipe for disaster16:33
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qwerty12_N800Upload glib? You know how much shit will break?16:34
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Stskeepshence my "recipe for disaster"16:34
thopiekar_vmStskeeps yes.. know (now) how simple it is to break others builds on mea so I would better ask him before uploading them..16:34
thopiekar_vmqwerty12_N800: yes I know..16:34
Stskeepsthopiekar_vm: last time someone tried to upload any bluez related stuff he got nearly decapitated16:35
lcukslonopotamus, which build are you using, the one from the repo16:35
lcukor from source16:35
qwerty12_N800Extras isn't a project to update diablo's libs & programs.16:35
slonopotamuslcuk, repo16:35
lcukthats odd you have a problem then, ive got thousands in there and i make sure its "strong"16:36
VDVsxthopiekar_vm,  bluez stuff > 3.6 will break all the diablo bluetooth stuff :P16:38
VDVsxlcuk, your gmail account requires your attention :P16:40
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* lcuk checks16:41
StskeepsVDVsx: how is it done anyway? a project gets a certain allocation on number of students?16:41
VDVsxStskeeps, yup, depends on the number of students that apply for this project16:42
VDVsxafter that the mentors and backup mentors choose the best projects16:42
Stskeepsk16:42
VDVsxStskeeps, I expect something around 10 slots for students, just a guess :P16:44
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thopiekar_vmVDVsx: hmm I want to build pulseaudio (0.9.14) into diablo, but if there is no way to get a newer version of bluez I should build it without bluez support..16:44
VDVsxthopiekar_vm,  bluez 4.0 introduce a lot of changes, d-bus api, services, ...16:45
thopiekar_vmbtw. why is it so simple to break the system with fresh libs? I uploaded libasound and installed it by apt-get --reinstall install libasound2.. and my device itsn't restarting now..16:46
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thopiekar_vmhi b-man16:46
* timelE61i kicks S6016:46
timelE61iit does a great job of background killing apps i need16:47
b-manlol16:47
timelE61iWhile keepng apps i don't need16:47
b-manheh16:47
timelE61iIrc? Kill. Address book? Keep. Web w/ no useful history? Keep16:48
thopiekar_vmcould someone give me a logical answer to my question above?16:48
inztimel, it's optimized for user annoyance16:48
StskeepstimelE61i: it's turning into an iphone.16:48
timelE61iI think it also killed maps, although i'm not certain16:49
* b-man resumes building LFS on his tablet16:49
timelE61iSts: i got these s60 things when nokia told me they were multimedia computers16:49
timelE61i... A coworker noted we haven't been told that recently16:50
timelE61iSts: an iphone would come w/ apps that use remote hosting for network connections16:51
timelE61iSo if the app closed, when it opened again it could get the irc scrollback and not have lost the irc presence16:51
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Stskeepsah, yeah16:52
VDVsxthopiekar_vm, the new packages aren't retro compatibly, probably (this happens between bluez 3 and bluez 4 for e.g)16:52
timelE61iThe design rules w/ iphone are clear, so apps are built around the constraints16:52
timelE61iS60 devs otoh drink the cool aid16:53
Stskeepsi must honestly admit that i'm not sure that posix will settle well in a pervasive computing world16:53
timelE61iWhich everyone admits tastes awful16:53
Stskeepsand there's needs for layers above it16:53
timelE61iOh, posix sucks16:54
thopiekar_vmhmm.. thanks VDVsx16:54
timelE61iC.f. Ext4 promises about file i/o16:54
timelE61iYeah, we'll write something, maybe.16:54
thopiekar_vmwho of you was working on the a2dp support for diablo..16:54
timelE61iWhy don't you fsync() every ns ;)16:54
timelE61iWe're cheating for a perf win16:54
lcukwe have ns timers now :D16:55
timelE61iBecause we're too shortsighted to realize this arms race only leads to the nuclear option: fsync()16:55
timelE61iIdiots.16:55
KhertanHello !16:56
* thopiekar_vm don't mean johnx' method.. he is searching for the man, who had a2dp-support working from fremantle..16:56
thopiekar_vmhi Khertan16:56
lcukhi there khertan16:56
timelE61iIf they think things are bad now when only a few apps call sync, and they are trying to improve perf by cheating16:56
timelE61iJust wait until each api call includes a sync16:56
timelE61iAnd posix won't let them cheat as much there16:57
Khertan'lu lcuk16:57
timelE61i-- actually, iirc apple's sync already cheats16:57
* Khertan is waiting the subs for the zode of Battlestar Galactica16:57
Khertanapple's sync ... <= not possible16:57
timelE61iZode?16:57
lcuki like the idea of networked irc :D shall we call it twotter or twatter or something16:58
Stskeepstwatter..16:58
timelE61iLcuk: sp3000 already uses it16:58
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Khertanha hum ... it s how who name 'an episode of a tv serie'' on some network in french16:58
lcukKhertan, if you get the translations, dont post them i still havent seen it16:59
timelE61iwhat's wrong w/ the original english?16:59
timelE61iWould yu prefer klingon?16:59
Khertanlcuk: héhé if i say that it s because i don't want someone else say how it  s end16:59
* lcuk once redid the credits for star wars - i translated it from sci-fi into human for the missus16:59
timelE61iwow17:00
KhertantimelE61i: if i can understood it more than english why not17:00
timelE61iHave you seen the en to chinese to en of star wars?17:00
lcukyeah17:00
timelE61iKhertan: understAnd :(17:00
lcukeveryone sounds like yoda except yoda himself :D17:00
KhertantimelE61i: :)17:01
timelE61iI haven't watched it all the way, i need to catch it someday17:01
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lcuki was a bit lost when starbuck came back from the dead17:01
* timelE61i rhymes to pass the times17:01
Khertanlcuk: same17:01
timelE61ihey, no spoilersd17:02
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Khertan:)17:02
lcukthat was about 2 years ago17:02
timelE61iwhat can i say? .fi is way behind :)17:02
lcukand spoiler avoidance has an expiry date17:02
Khertanon fr channel wee have just see the pilot and nothing more17:03
Khertan-e17:03
timelE61iwere you around when i mentioned seeing the dancing baby?17:03
lcukbabies can dance?17:03
* timelE61i wonders if that ever landed in france17:03
Khertanlcuk:  in a mixer ... of course17:03
timelE61ilcuk: is that reference truly foreign to you, or are you too young?17:04
lcuki gather you mean oogachacka17:04
KhertantimelE61i: you are one of the guy with an access to bugs.maemo.org ? right ?17:05
Khertanis it possible to ask you how it s possible to migrate things from garage bugtracker to bugs.maemo.org ?17:05
timelE61iYes i have access17:06
timelE61iAnd i'd do manual migration17:06
Khertanas i would like that all my project bugstracker stuck in the same place17:06
KhertantimelE61i: ouch17:06
Khertanso will do it myself :)17:06
Khertan+i17:06
timelE61iok17:07
timelE61iDo you need any projects created?17:07
Khertanis it possible that you open a project for mCalendar17:07
KhertanPyGTKEditor17:07
timelE61iSpeak now or wait for me to deChlorinate17:07
KhertanmTodos17:08
lcukwhy does a browser take so long to open17:08
StskeepstimelE61i: while you're at it, can you add 0.10..0.14 versions of Mer?17:08
timelE61iYes17:08
Khertanpls :)17:08
Khertanthx17:08
Khertanthere isn't any urgency17:08
timelesskhertan: do you need www or just generale?17:09
timelesssts: do you need vers and tm's to 0.14?17:10
Stskeepstm's?17:10
timelesstarget milestones17:10
Stskeepsyeah17:10
Stskeepsi just realized we are having internal 0.10 snapshots but no 0.10 version :P17:11
Khertantimeless: what do you mean by www ?17:12
Khertana web site ?17:12
timelessyes17:12
Khertani just need the tracker :)17:12
timelessmnotes has general and website17:13
Khertanthx17:13
Khertanoh ?17:13
Khertanhaven't see :)17:13
timelesshttps://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=mNotes17:13
timelesssee the component field17:13
Khertanah ok17:13
Khertannope just general17:13
Khertanis enough17:14
Khertanthx17:14
ShadowJKtimeless, what irc client do you use on S60?17:15
Khertandoes it s available for s40 ? :)17:16
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ShadowJKThere's jmirc and wlirc for s40/j2me17:16
qwerty12_N800Khertan: Pretty sure j2me clients exist17:17
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Khertanah thx17:17
ShadowJKime with mirggi on s60, when s60 tries to kill mirggi, it thinks it's user quit, and asks if I'm sure. It stays alive waiting for me to answer :-)17:17
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ShadowJKunfortunately mirggi has a tendency to crash on its own too, without murerous assistance from s60 :)17:18
ShadowJKs/murerous/murderous/17:19
infobotShadowJK meant: unfortunately mirggi has a tendency to crash on its own too, without murderous assistance from s60 :)17:19
timelessum17:19
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timelesswhere's the mtodos thing in garage?17:19
timelessshadowjk: /ctcp version timelE61i :)17:19
ShadowJKright :-)17:19
timelessoh yes, mirggi will kill itself if it tries to connect to a network and my nick is taken17:20
timelesseven if i have open connections to other servers17:20
timeless(very nice of it)17:20
* timeless pokes Khertan17:20
* Khertan have just been poked17:21
ShadowJKAlso sometimes it stops updating the chat window, and network input gets queued up. Then when you try type something it suddenly realizes there's stuff to add to the chat window, and it starts rendering chat at a pace slower than xchat, which I had previously thought was the ultimate fubar in slow rendering :-)17:21
Khertanseems i ve forgotten to open a garage project ...17:21
ShadowJKI suspect that if it stays long enough in the not-rendering-anything state, it eventually crashes when there's too much queued up17:22
timelesskhertan: ok, i'll assume it has the obvious names17:23
Khertanproject just submitted ...17:23
Khertanthe unix name is mtodos17:24
Khertanand official one is mTodos ...17:24
Khertan:)17:24
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timelessok, i think i've got all of them17:25
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b-manwb Meizirkki17:28
ShadowJKputty s60 port and irssi in screen works nicely for persistent state.. though it might be quite cumbersome without qwerty keypad :)17:28
Meizirkkihi, b-man17:28
Khertanthx timeless17:28
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timelessshadowjk: what bothers me about that is that it resets my screen dimensions17:29
timelessbut yes, in a pinch i can use it17:29
timeless(this session is in a screen)17:29
ShadowJKah17:29
timelessanyone else need a project?17:29
Khertandoes there is someone which have time to spent to compile and push gtksourceview to extras-devel17:29
Khertan?17:29
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ShadowJKtimeless, irssi/screen does seem to scale gracefully for me, considering I use it both in S60 where I'm constantly flipping between portrait and landscape, and on N810 where the Sticky key and word suggestions bar pops up and vanishes regulary, changing window size17:31
ShadowJKhaving the screen session attached on more than one device/computer at a time seems less of a success story though :)17:31
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timelE61iyour s60 dims must not match mine17:32
ShadowJKE7017:32
timelE61imy concern is that you get the narrowest or widest col count17:32
* sp3000 turns off the bar features, they're just a distraction when you have a hw kb imo17:32
ShadowJKhm?17:33
timelE61iPlus pay for a stupid (expensive) reflow17:33
ShadowJKswitching between portrait/landscape does cause a redraw for me17:33
sp3000yeah, when roaming you hope you could pay for a screen reflow in cash, it'd lighten the load17:33
timelessspeaking of getting ripped off17:34
timelessi went to that pool17:34
timeless4.40 eur bought me entrance17:34
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timeless2.00 eur bought me a towel (one time use, non refundable)17:34
timelessand together that got me to the pool where the life guard insisted that swim trunks aren't ok in the pool17:34
timelessthere's a sign in the locker which says no swim suit in the sauna17:35
timelesswhereas the sign for the pool says something about shorts17:35
timelessbut it was a changing area, so i didn't feel right taking photos of the signs17:35
timelessoh, and the sign for the sauna (in English) was nowhere near the sauna17:35
b-manlol17:35
ShadowJKwhere was this?17:35
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timelessit's like sticking a 'you must wear a seatbelt' sticker inside the trunk of a car17:36
timelesshttp://www.hel.fi/wps/portal/Liikuntavirasto_en/Artikkeli?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/Liv/en/sports+facilities/swimming+halls/ruoholahti+kuntotalo+swimming+hall17:36
timelessoh, to complete the analogy17:36
sp3000well, if you were to travel in the trunk, you might still want to consider a seatbelt, right?17:36
Stskeepstimeless: maybe it was for pushing tourists towards a sauna with lower degrees, to avoid heart attacks? :P17:37
sp3000trunkbelt, whatever17:37
timelessthe car would have dozens of stickers all over the place, most of the stickers aren't in English17:37
timelesssts: nope, there are only two, and given that i've been in one and it was single sex, i'm fairly certain i know where the other one is17:37
Stskeepshehe17:37
timelessit's odd, there were i think a total of 2 signs in the entire building in English17:38
timelesswhich didn't include the elevator (you need to get to the fourth floor to get to the pool)17:38
timelessor the lobby of the fourth floor (you need to go along side the upper area of a basketball/socker court to get to the lockers for the pool17:39
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timelessdon't get me wrong, it's nice to have a pool17:39
timelessbut well17:39
timelessgiven that i rash up in moisture, it's not actually that pleasant anyway17:39
* sp3000 would expect pictographs17:39
timelesssp3000: ETOOLOGICAL17:39
ShadowJKThey need to get iso9001 certified, the auditing people want signs on absolutely everything :-)17:40
timelessit's so much more fun to have signs in Finnish, Swedish, and then randomly placed signs in English17:40
wazdGuys: http://lotro.ucoz.ru/omw_demo.html <- still no work?17:40
* Stskeeps brews a pot of coffee17:40
timelessdidn't you read the signs?17:40
Stskeepswazd: nop17:40
wazdStskeeps: I think the problem is with hosting itself(17:41
timeless"well... i saw a bunch of signs i couldn't read which were clearly multilingual, and stopped looking, i didn't really feel an exhaustive egg[err sign]-hunt was appropriate17:41
sp3000it's *°C in mozcor apparently17:41
timeless??17:41
sp3000moscow even17:41
timeless<star>;<hat'd-caps>-A;<deg>;C17:42
timeless?17:42
ShadowJKstar deg C17:43
ShadowJKwas what I saw17:43
timelesssilly unicode user17:43
wazdShadowJK: yep, not working(17:43
timelessanyway, i'll be back,i need to dechlorinate17:44
wazdbut you can still click it to see silly effect xD17:44
timelessenjoy your new products/versions17:44
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Khertanthx17:45
Khertangpsbt.gps.get_position()17:51
Khertanoups ww17:51
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Khertansomeone have already play with the gps and bluetooth ?17:54
Khertanoh i mean -bluetooth / python17:54
Khertan:)17:54
ShadowJKI had this crazy idea yesterday, what if you left a bluetooth receiver in the same spot for a few days, and plotted the SNR of a satellite on a skymap, so that it covers a significant amount of it.. Would you see a pattern emerging, and would that pattern look like the buildings/obstructions near the GPS receiver?17:56
Stskeepssounds like something to be tried. :P17:57
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Khertani didn't understand17:58
Khertanyou mean trying to discover the building 3D representation ?17:59
ShadowJKWell, a 2D photograph17:59
ShadowJKIf satellite goes behind a building, the signal strength would drop, right? So if you took satellite's azimuth and elevation18:01
ShadowJKuh, its position in the sky, and plotted that onto a picture, and changed the color of the pixel you plot depending on how strong the signal is18:01
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ShadowJKwould you see a sharp outline of a building, or a big blurry area with a bit worse signal?18:02
ShadowJKI imagine it would take days if not weeks to do this :)18:02
Khertanhum ... but signal reverb also on some structure ...18:03
ShadowJKyeah18:03
ShadowJKso it might just look like random patterns :)18:03
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timelesslol18:07
timelessthere's a report from the university of lapland18:07
timelessand they did testing on the lederly18:07
timelesss/led/eld/18:07
infobottimeless meant: and they did testing on the elderly18:07
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* timeless is watching some very strange british show which might be called 'braniac'18:09
qwerty12Lol, the one where they blow shit up?18:10
timelessthey're about to blow up a photocopier18:10
timelessw/ tnt18:10
* b-man can't believe how huge the gcc-4.3.2 package is - it's so large that i'm having issues with space >.<18:11
b-man(sorce package)18:12
* Khertan is hearing a remake of Ein Lied by Nena18:13
Khertanan other poor remake18:13
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timelesssp3000: is it too much to ask for a dvr that doesn't hang if i open the program guide?18:15
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sp3000mine doesn't18:16
sp3000it might take closer to 10s to bother sometimes though18:16
timelessmine takes much longer than 10s at times18:16
timelessand queues all of the events18:16
Khertanhum 10 min waiting that this stupid n810 s gps get a position ...18:16
Khertanand still nothing ...18:17
Khertanreally useless18:17
mavhcare you outside?18:17
mavhcif gps has no data all it it by definition takes 12 mins at least to connect18:18
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Khertanyep the n810 is outside18:30
Khertanand i'm connected to it via ssh by wifi18:31
Pavlovthe gps is bad on the n81018:31
Pavlovi tried using it for directions home once, it locked on as i turned in my driveway18:31
Stskeepsbut it did get you safely home ;P18:33
Khertani m trying to use it to do some script running depending on geolocalisation18:34
Khertanbut it s so slow that it s useless18:34
StskeepsKhertan: you use a phone for tethering btw?18:34
Stskeepsmy sony-ericsson supports reporting me the cell ids and such it goes through18:34
Stskeepsover bluetooth rfcomm18:34
Khertani home i use the wifi18:35
Khertannot my phone18:35
Stskeepsk18:35
Khertanand i ven't any network mobile phone coverage at home :)18:35
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mgwpubhi. i just installed my maemo 5 sdk and when starting hildon-home there is no application in the app-menue18:45
mgwpubwhat could be the problem?18:45
mgwpubthere is even nothing in the app mgr.18:45
timelessmgwpub: ime it enerates apps very slowly18:46
timelessbut if you have app mgr, then you have an app...18:46
mgwpubbut in app-manager i can not find any application.18:46
timelesswell, what app were you expecting?18:46
mgwpube.g. a browser18:47
mgwpubsorry, it is my first installation of maemo18:48
timelessi have no idea when the browser will reach the sdk18:48
timelessit's quite possible it won't arrive until the product ships18:48
timelesssince it has 'secret' stuff18:48
timeless(including a minor detail of none of us actually knowing what we're going to ship)18:49
Stskeepsinstant goatse.cx hotkey? :P18:50
timelessthe sdk is not designed for use as a system18:50
timelessit's for developing apps of your own18:50
mgwpubok, and there are no more applications to test / use with the sdk at the moment? only app mgr18:50
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timelessthe sdk should have included maemopad18:51
timelessthe sdk is not a testbed for giving feedback on shipped apps18:51
timelessit's a way for you to develop your own apps18:51
timelessif you're trying to do something else. you have the wrong idea of what an sdk is18:51
timelessdo yourself a favor and get Mer instead18:52
VDVsxmgwpub, you can also test some app inside the fremantle SDk, if you add the extras repo18:54
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Stskeepsright, it's raining like hell outside and i'm not inclined to go to the shop to buy stuff to eat.. hmm18:55
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Stskeepstime to order pizza18:55
VDVsxmgwpub, I meant extras-devel repo18:56
xntStskeeps: :P18:58
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Stskeepsxnt: sometimes it's good being an adult and home alone. you can also have bacon anytime you want.18:58
xnt:P18:58
timelessgan: when will you fix the stupid repository.m.o landing page?18:58
xntbrb18:59
thopiekar_vmhmm a normal build of pulseaudio fails.. building it with dpkg-buildpackage says that libtool v7 is needed but only v3 is available in repos..http://pastebin.com/d3029d45e19:00
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thopiekar_vmhi b-man :)19:01
b-manhello, thopiekar_vm :)19:02
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mgwpubtimeless: thanks for your hint to Mer :)19:03
* b-man gives up on LFS - requires way too many resources and takes too much time :(19:03
mgwpubVDVsx: ok, i will check this repo. thanks19:04
b-manpluse binutils failed to compile 5 or 6 times19:04
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VDVsxmgwpub, don't expect much more than this, for now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiNF4C1p03019:05
b-maneven though i had all of the build dependences for the entire LFS system :P19:05
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Andy80hi19:06
b-mani even tryed to apply patches but still had no luck19:07
b-manhello, Andy8019:07
* b-man checks his ubuntu-n8x0 2.2 thread19:09
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b-manhmm19:10
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Lovelifehello every119:46
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Lovelifecan we get the simulator or something for testing the maemo apps we design19:47
slonopotamushuh. you can.19:48
JaffaLovelife: You can download the SDK, which contains both x86 and emulated versions of Maemo19:48
slonopotamuseither Maemo SDK or qemu.19:48
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* b-man reminds himself to never use wget -r again :P19:50
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slonopotamus:D19:51
Lovelifethanks19:52
* b-man is now going to run out of space soon..19:52
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* Proteous is going to run out of the house screaming and naked soon19:57
z4chho_o19:57
qwerty12For the love of God, no pics please!19:57
StskeepsProteous: yay prison19:57
slonopotamus0.7.1~rc1+20090219+bzr974-0ubuntu1mer1 muahaha! insane version numbering19:58
z4chhStskeeps, more like the loony house, then prison ;p19:58
slonopotamusi'll add -r1, i think :D19:59
trofi[:19:59
dick-richardsonis there a notification app for google voice?20:00
Stskeepsslonopotamus: what is that package, btw?20:00
slonopotamusStskeeps, nm-applet20:00
Stskeepsah.20:00
slonopotamusStskeeps, i wonder what package will hit length limit first20:01
Stskeepsslonopotamus: i've had to change messages in mer builder in the past to not exceed the jaiku limit20:02
Stskeeps(we switched away from jaiku in that area now)20:02
slonopotamushehe20:02
Stskeepsbut yes, it's insane occasionally20:03
* b-man gives into boardom and decides to try the ARM port of LFS one_more_time20:05
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timelE61isLo. What length limit?20:13
timelE61iB-man: boredom :(20:13
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b-manyup :(20:17
* b-man messes around with http://www.wipeoutpure.com/20:18
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* timelE61i cries20:30
b-manlol20:30
timelE61ii meant soccer above btw... It looked wrong when i wrote it, but it's a word  i don't see much outside the us20:30
* timelE61i pokes andre20:32
* timelE61i pokes jeremiah20:33
b-manlol20:33
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joyriderhow long does it generally take before accounts created on maemo garage also allows you to login in the maemo general site ? (i had activated my account like 5 hours ago) and the login system says if one created a new garage account please try again in a "few minutes" (so not hours)20:42
lbtoh, what provides hildon-desktop-dev20:46
lbtoops, not #mer20:46
b-man:)20:46
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xnthello all :)20:55
xntb-man: hi20:55
b-manhello20:55
b-manany luck with LFS?20:55
xntno20:56
b-mansame here :(20:56
joyriderwhats lfs ?20:56
b-manLinux From Scratch20:56
timelE61iwHy not use slackware?20:57
xntI've been looking at palm's webos, and its based off of linux, so, I was thinking once they have a sdk , we can port it to the nit20:57
dobanyone have the sdk+ working on a 64 bit machine without a chroot?20:57
timelE61iDob: like w/ sb2?20:57
b-manxnt: that might be verry difficult due to some closed components20:58
b-man:(20:58
xntyeah...20:58
xnt:(20:58
dobtimelE61i: well, sb2 is part of sdk+, but they don't officially have 64-bit support. (even though sb2 does)20:59
xntdoes microb support html5?20:59
* xnt wants bespin on microb20:59
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* b-man is not shure21:00
xntfor no apparent reason21:00
b-manhehe :)21:00
timelE61ixnt: heh21:00
xntdoes anyone have any luck on installing ubiquity on microb?21:00
* xnt is mozilla crazed today21:00
timelE61iI still haven't grabbed an account for bespin21:00
xnt:P21:00
andre__timelE61i, pong21:01
timelE61iI think i got an account for the cloud profiling21:01
timelE61iAndre: please import a bug complaining about keyhandling :)21:01
b-manxnt: http://www.wipeoutpure.com/ :)21:02
xntb-man: :P21:02
* xnt has demo on his ps321:03
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Stskeepsmm, pizza21:03
* b-man has the game21:03
xntStskeeps: :)21:03
* b-man grabs a piece21:03
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* xnt steals Stskeeps, pizza :P21:04
Stskeepsall eaten, already21:04
Stskeeps:P21:04
xnt:P21:04
b-manlol21:04
xntlol21:04
* xnt is bored...21:05
* xnt ponders on playing warhawk21:05
xntor lbp21:05
* b-man is bored21:05
timelE61ilbp'21:05
timelE61i?21:05
b-man:P21:05
* xnt has 60 people sending him messages on psn to join their game :P21:05
b-manlol21:06
xnttimeE6li: LittleBigPlanet21:06
* b-man wants that game21:06
xntwhat lbp or warhawk?21:06
b-manlbp21:07
xntb-man: you have a ps3?21:07
b-man..not atm - i want one though21:07
xnt:P21:08
* b-man 's friend has one21:08
b-man:P21:08
xntmake sure no one steals your psn id21:08
Stskeepsless playing more coding21:08
Stskeeps:P21:08
b-manlol21:08
xnt:P21:08
* xnt want his n810 back to use bluemaemo21:09
xntalthough I already have a usb keyboard21:09
* xnt wants mer on ps321:10
xntbut i can wait :P21:10
fireunthe next nit uses the ps3 chip21:10
b-manmer on ps3.. hmm21:10
xnt:P21:11
b-man:P21:11
xntCell on the n90021:11
fireuncell.lite21:11
fireunonly takes 1mW21:11
b-manfireun: ARMv7 - omap321:11
b-mannot cell21:11
* fireun is in denial21:12
b-man:P21:12
* xnt wants his xps with cell :P21:12
* Stskeeps will be happy with a touch book.21:12
b-manheh21:12
xntlol21:12
fireunkeep your hands to yourself21:12
b-manlol XD21:12
xntXD21:12
* xnt has a friend on psn whose id is GrrrrrxD21:13
b-man??????21:13
b-manGrrrrxD21:13
b-manwhy?21:13
xntdunno21:13
b-manlol21:14
xntlol21:14
xntwarhawk command center in home is boring...21:14
xnt:P21:14
timelE61iSilly rabbit, trix are for kids?21:14
xnt:P21:14
b-man:P21:14
timelE61iis that the right reference?21:15
* xnt just noticed http://twitter.com/SonyPlaystation21:15
b-manheh21:15
* timelE61i hasn't seen those commercials in 3 years21:15
fireunthe attention span of you folks is about 4 lines of text21:15
* xnt doesn't watch much tv21:15
timelE61iwe don't get good commercials here21:16
timelE61iJust old fat naked men21:16
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* b-man doesn't either21:16
b-manXP21:16
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qwerty12_N800Finnish adverts = meatfest? >.<21:16
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timelE61ino, just gross21:17
timelE61iThe current one is a bunch of men in a sauna21:17
timelE61iDon't ask me why21:17
* xnt forgot his psn password :P21:17
b-man:P21:17
xnt:P:P:P:P:P21:18
* xnt is going to game...21:18
qwerty12_N800timelE61i: lol, think I saw a Swedish one that was similar (supposidly banned)21:18
b-man:P:P:P:P:P:P21:18
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Stskeepsok21:18
Stskeepshttp://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-ehxterm.png21:18
Stskeepswhere did -that- xterm icon come from.21:18
timelE61iThe movie theater chain here used to have a naked oversized guy leaving a sauna and doing a cannonball into a lake21:18
* b-man listens to his music21:18
xnt|gaming:P21:19
timelE61iDon't you like how we still have 770 art?21:19
Stskeepswell, i'm just curious since we have pretty sane xterm icon otherwise21:20
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: replace that goddamn awful themes icon :)21:21
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i will21:21
timelE61iwhat's the screen res in that shot?21:21
timelE61iPersonally, i like how the active app has no icon21:21
StskeepstimelE61i: 800x60021:22
Stskeepsit is resolution independent so it can scale, too :P21:23
b-manXP21:23
* b-man has nothing better to do..21:23
b-manatm21:23
keesjStskeeps: sun xVM ?21:23
Stskeepskeesj: virtualbox, yea21:23
timelE61ikeesj: sun software "just works"21:23
timelE61iSts: so i tried enabling hypervisor on my snv-indiana-110 box21:24
timelE61iNext week i want to try to get that happy21:24
timelE61iwait... In that picture...21:25
timelE61iThere are two selections, one for a generic app, and one for an empty icon21:26
timelE61iWhich is active, and what does the other thing indicate?21:26
timelE61iSts: btw, why does your vm say 0.6? :)21:27
timelE61iSomething tells me it isn't 0.6 anymore :)21:27
Stskeepsfrom left to right it's application launcher, menu button, the active application, two inactive (one of them an xterm), .. then a theme error (the theme rc doesn't support more than 3 elements (...)), statusbar, and the magic X21:27
StskeepstimelE61i: yeah, i reused machine description21:27
timelE61iAnd the floating moon is the magic x?21:28
Stskeepsyeah21:29
timelE61iHow important is it to close an app, and why?21:32
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* timelE61i misses sugar21:32
timelE61iwould one of you bored people please port sugar?21:33
Stskeepshttp://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/merui2.png21:33
timelE61iThe only part i care about is a task launch-switcher which is resource aware21:33
sp3000or boared, whichever21:33
timelE61iSugar did this in theory by presenting resource usage as a pie-ring21:34
Stskeepsi guess you could potentially do that with the magic21:34
Stskeepsx21:34
Stskeepsshowing how intensely the app is running with color :P21:34
timelE61iShowing resource exhaustion by the inability to provide enough space for another pie-arc21:34
timelE61iSeriously, what do you need to know when launching or considering discarding apps?21:35
* xnt|gaming notes that warhawk is very crashy today :(21:35
timelE61iGraphically how much load they cause21:35
timelE61iPrimarily wrt free/used memory in proportion to other running apps21:36
timelE61iAnd secondarily whether any apps are unexpectedly killing your battery21:37
timelE61iw/ sugar, that secondary thing was less of an issue, the children could just crank up the juice21:37
timelE61iNokia@ tablets don't come w/ hand cranks... Seems to cramp nokia style :)21:38
Stskeepsbut isn't hand cranks good for the environment21:38
Stskeeps?21:38
Stskeeps:P21:39
timelE61is/is/are/21:39
Stskeeps.. yeah21:39
Stskeepsah. now i know what the charger message should be: "Get a Nokia-authorized hand crank next time instead of wasting precious electricity, you bastard"21:40
Robot101timelE61i: OLPC deployments never really came with hand cranks thus far21:43
Robot101I think most of the deployments are in places that at least sporadically have power21:44
Robot101solar/generators/etc21:44
Robot101and kids can put their batteries in bulk chargers21:44
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timelE61irobot: blah... Minor detail21:45
timelE61iSts: so... Who's going to make a useful switcher21:45
StskeepstimelE61i: i think i'm going to get this layout right and then we can start making it smart beyond just being magic21:46
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Stskeepsi'21:47
Stskeepsm thinking something like a heart animation beating, if it beats very fast..21:48
Robot101also I'm not sure if sugar ever had the ring resource thing working21:48
timelE61iI don' think they did21:49
timelE61iBut it was in the spec21:49
timelE61iit'll actually fail miserably in maemo21:49
Stskeepsah, no wonder nothing worked with my icons21:49
timelE61iBecause most apps use shared daemons21:49
StskeepsInherts != Inherits21:49
Robot101timelE61i: monitor dbus traffic to work out who causes what activity? :)21:50
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timelE61irobot: i'd go w/ an advisory system actually21:52
timelE61iJust provide an api where apps can say "pid x is mine"21:52
timelE61iIt'd at least work for browser21:53
Robot101hmm21:56
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Smosherhello ther... does anyone know how can i get the device name/version and installed OS from a Nokia N8x0?22:23
timelesscat /etc/osso_software_version22:23
timelessuname -a ?22:23
timelesshostname ?22:23
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qwerty12_N800Control panel > about22:24
Stskeeps cat /proc/component_version , as well22:24
qwerty12_N800osso-product-info as root22:24
timelessqwerty: how dare you provide a proper api?22:24
qwerty12_N800getting device name should be a call to bluez22:25
qwerty12_N800timeless: :P22:25
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: ok .. gtk-icon-theme "themedir", make hildon icon theme inherit hicolor instead of gnome, and make liberty-mer's fallback theme be gnome..22:26
Stskeepsi think this is about as insane as it gets.22:26
Stskeepsand make liberty-mer icon theme inherit hildon22:26
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Smosherosso-product-info did exactly what i need, tyvm22:27
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: that's some funky shit right there :/22:27
qwerty12_N800no problem :)22:27
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: .. but now the Network Connections icon disappeared, but everything else is ok22:28
Stskeeps:P22:28
Stskeepsi mean, wtf..22:28
Stskeeps:P22:28
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qwerty12_N800Oh, it's just network manager. I'll live. :P22:29
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Stskeepsswear to god, i'm going to learn Qt one of these days. GTK has scarred me forever.22:34
lbt:D22:34
derfIf you want to be scarred forever, learn the Java AWT.22:34
z4chhomg no22:34
derfA past victim, I see.22:35
z4chhderf, don't recommend that ever gain o_o22:35
lbtI'm trying to hack a Qt equivalent to libosso22:35
Stskeepsderf: i had a tad of it at uni and we switched quickly to swing.. :P22:35
z4chhi written a few programs using java awt/swing...22:35
Stskeepslbt: why equivalent?22:35
z4chhi almost died22:35
lbtlibosso is tied into glib22:35
derfSwing is an order of magnitude better. But still pretty bad.22:35
Stskeepslbt: ah.22:35
lbtyeah22:35
derfAt least it's not MFC.22:35
lbtah!22:35
lbtmmm yummy dbus22:36
lbtmmm lovely docs22:36
lbtmmm nice gtk22:36
* lbt comes back from that reality into this one22:37
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derfI've used lots of GUI toolkits. GTK isn't awful.22:37
lbtno, it's not.22:37
derfIt's got its warts, true. But it could be worse.22:37
derfIt could be Motif.22:38
lbtbut for guis,  Qt and C++ is a bit better than C and gtk  ....  IMHO.22:38
derfYeah, I obviously hold the exact opposite opinion.22:39
lbtfair enough.22:39
lbtwhy obviously?22:39
derfBecause I've said it in here before multiple times.22:39
lbtoh, I never try and remember what people say. NP22:39
derfBut really, these days I generally avoid GUI programming altogether.22:40
lbtare you familiar with gtk and dbus and osso by any chance then?22:40
derfGTK yes, dbus and osso a very small amount.22:40
lbtI need to understand what dbus messages make up the osso 'contract'22:41
derfYeah, good luck with that.22:41
lbtI'm stepping through libosso and running dbus-monitor...22:41
lbtOh, OK :)22:41
derfI mean, that is what I'd do.22:42
derfAFAIK, none of it is documented anywhere.22:42
lbtyeah - it's just in case someone has been there and can throw me some pointers22:42
lbtI'll get back to it.... dbus is now sending me messages when I hit close22:43
lbtthats better than an hour ago22:43
derfThe only dbus I touched in maemo was acmonitor.22:43
derfWhich convinced me I didn't want to do any more.22:43
lbtTBH it is wonderful22:43
lbtbut it's badly documented22:43
lbtthe barcode reader should use it for example22:43
derfThe barcode reader should exist first.22:44
lbtwe have a gsoc victim on the mailing list22:44
Robot101lbt: do you mean between task navigator/desktop and an osso app?22:44
derfExcellent.22:44
lbtyes22:44
lbtRobot101: you know anything?22:44
derfWhich mailing list?22:44
lbtmaemo-developers@maemo.org22:45
Robot101no but I know some people who might, marcoil has been hacking that code recently I think22:45
lbtooh22:45
lbthttp://pastebin.com/d1dc6069a22:46
lbtmy hacking and some cross refs22:46
lbtincluding links to freedesktop.org docs22:46
lbtand lines in libosso22:46
derfUgh, Python.22:46
lbtRobot101: the problem is that the maemo/hildon WM just does kill -9 on Qt apps. I want to get the dbus mesg and do a closeEvent()22:47
lcukbarcode should be enablable whenever the camera is switched on22:47
lbtsee - I knew lcuk would be watching barcode22:47
lbthi mate22:47
lcuklbt, i just had to add something similar into liqbase at the x11 level22:48
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lbtdbus?22:48
lcukits not an osso or dbus thing22:48
lcukhang on a mo ive got the base xv example with it in22:48
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lcukwithout this it just falls out and blows up22:48
lbtI was just saying that you need to emit a dbus signal when you spot a barcode22:49
lbtkinda thing22:49
derfThe camera drains battery fast enough without _always_ running the barcode scanner.22:49
lcukproblem is that with a barcode identification how often do you send them22:49
lcukbased on this preview shot: http://liqbase.net/liq.20081026_204523.gary.cam.png22:49
lbtwhen I'm shopping.22:49
lcuki get a few possible identifications22:49
lcukdo you send one dbus per frame?22:49
lbtyou're just going to have to get Stskeeps to do power mgmt on it22:50
lbtand use the motion sensor to turn the camera on when I shake it22:50
lcukcamera startup time is about 15 seconds22:50
lcuktry it, open any of the camera apps22:50
lcukthe light comes on much sooner than gstreamer sends data22:50
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lcuk(maybe not 15 secs, but it feels like it22:50
lcukoh, 3 seconds22:51
lcuklol22:51
lcukmaybe its first first time per bootup22:51
lcukwe need laser scanners on our nokias22:52
lcuksod the camera22:52
derfAnyway, having mentored GSoC for several years now, my expectations are pretty low.22:52
z4chhwhy?22:53
lbtRobot101: could you mention to whoever that I'm working on this - I'll post more to qt4-devel garage list with Antonio22:53
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Stskeeps'lo ian_at_synth23:09
ian_at_synthhi stskeeps23:10
Stskeepshow's it going?23:10
ian_at_synthpretty good. spring break.23:10
ian_at_synthyou?23:10
Stskeepshehe, same here. playing with the new mer desktop layout23:10
Stskeepshttp://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-ui3.png23:10
Stskeeps(work in progress)23:10
ian_at_synthwow, nice23:11
Stskeepsonly downside is that stuff like LCARS is bloody difficult unless you add a extra panel to the layout :P23:11
ian_at_synthyep heh, same in fremantle23:11
Stskeepstarget is http://i041.radikal.ru/0903/5f/5cf0986d63e7.jpg23:11
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Stskeeps.. wb23:12
Stskeepstarget is http://i041.radikal.ru/0903/5f/5cf0986d63e7.jpg23:12
mavhcpffft, LCARS, where's my babylon 5 interface?23:12
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ian_at_synth_lol sorry, i never got into b5, so you're on your own there23:13
Stskeepsian_at_synth_: and we've implemented a saner way to override icons as well23:13
ian_at_synth_oh?23:13
Stskeepsas in, we have them in our template and we overlay on top of the hildon icons23:14
Stskeeps(as in, icon namespace)23:14
ian_at_synth_stskeeps, are you aiming for theme compatibility with fremantle eventually?23:14
Stskeepsian_at_synth_: maybe. but the problem is that hildon-theme-layout-5 isn't out23:15
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ian_at_synth_yeah that's pretty lame. i asked konttori about when the new layout might be released and he said soon, but not yet. that was a couple weeks ago, so hopefully it's coming along.23:16
Stskeepsyeah - they want to keep their cards close23:17
Stskeepsi think it's brilliant we're even getting betas and alpha/pre-alpha's23:17
ian_at_synth_yeah it could be worse, but i should be able to start theming now, and i can't :/23:18
Stskeepsfor Mer we're keeping the -layout stuff, so it should be trivial to make themes from at least23:18
Stskeepsi even taught myself a bit of inkscape, heh23:18
ian_at_synth_do you guys have a layout/template i could start playing with?23:19
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GeneralAntillestimeless, this week.23:19
Stskeepsian_at_synth_: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-theme-liberty-mer/annotate/head%3A/template//template.svg , but it is changing quite often atm23:20
Stskeepsit's a fairly standard template but some things are no longer in use23:21
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ian_at_synth_i'll check it out.23:22
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konttori_ian_at_synth: I'm pretty sure I can release the layout as soon as I get theme maker properly converted to it.23:28
konttori_one of the problems is that it's still changing a bit23:28
konttori_(layout)23:28
konttori_and it's better to publish it once it has been finalized.23:28
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konttori_ in the meanwhile, I'm working on really nice default icon set to be the basis of the icon template23:29
* konttori_ was apparently talking to the air23:29
* konttori_ goes to bed.23:29
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ian_at_synth_heh thanks konttori23:29
GeneralAntillestimeless, I've finished the big layout cleanup, but I'm sort of stuck on the content now.23:33
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* xnt|gaming xnt23:36
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* xnt had fun gaming :P23:36
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xntStskeeps: wait is  http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-ehxterm.png the same as http://i041.radikal.ru/0903/5f/5cf0986d63e7.jpg ???23:41
* xnt is confused23:41
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Stskeepslatter one is the target23:41
Stskeepsstill some things to be implement23:41
xntso that is 0.1123:42
Stskeepsyeah23:42
xntstill in dev23:42
Stskeepscorrect23:42
xntoh ok23:42
* xnt waits in anticipation23:42
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xntStskeeps: where can I get the mer wallpaper?23:44
Stskeepswiki.maemo.org/Mer/Artwork23:44
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xnt:) thanks23:44
Robot101grr stupid vodafone is filtering my access to your images23:45
Robot101not even saying its blocked byc ontent control, but due to a temporary failure they can't see if I have content control23:45
Stskeepsheh23:45
Robot101epic fail23:45
xntlol23:46
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xnt :) http://xceleo.com/merwp.png now to create that mockup...23:47
Stskeepshehe23:47
Stskeepsi think a blue mer logo tshirt and then batique would be excellent.. or something23:48
xnt:)23:48
* xnt would buy mer t-shirt23:48
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xnt|in_gimp:P23:51
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, how about: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Artwork23:53
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah, i just saw it, looks fine23:53
Stskeepsta23:53
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, tag your pages with [[Category:Mer]] at the bottom.23:54

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