| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Nope..but did look at the maps. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LinuxHack3r | Very neat. | 00:00 |
| timelE61i | so... I mentioned to someone that the beos start ui is kinda ideal for our dimensions | 00:00 |
| jaem | LinuxHack3r: I'd recommend MaemoMapper | 00:00 |
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| jaem | but you have to download your own maps with that app | 00:01 |
| jaem | so, OpenStreetMap | 00:01 |
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| LinuxHack3r | OpenStreetMap? | 00:01 |
| jaem | or, just "explore" Google Maps with "heavy caching" :P | 00:01 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: it includes maps already? didn't know that | 00:02 |
| jaem | the pre-installed Maps app does | 00:02 |
| jaem | but they're not very good | 00:02 |
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| timelE61i | the preinstalled maps are regional | 00:02 |
| wazd | timelE61i: haven't seen it | 00:02 |
| timelE61i | And calling them vectors is insulting to vectors | 00:02 |
| jaem | I agree | 00:03 |
| mavhc | they're better than google, which are bitmaps, and openstreetmaps, which are mostly missing | 00:03 |
| timelE61i | Wazd: if you have vmware, check out haiku | 00:03 |
| * Stskeeps checks youtube | 00:03 | |
| jaem | timelE61i: I've been meaning to try Plan9 in a VM - have you ever used that? | 00:03 |
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| timelE61i | i don't think so. I can't remember if i tried | 00:04 |
| LinuxHack3r | So..I cd'd to /usr/local/bin, and ln -s /home/user/Data/Scripts/Connect. So how come when I type connect it doesn't find it? | 00:04 |
| timelE61i | I've used quite a few os's including beos, qnx, os/2... | 00:04 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rr811dphhs , around 0:30 | 00:04 |
| jaem | I saw some comment on the Interwebs somewhere, where someone was complaining that Linux was becoming too popular, and if it kept on, he'd have to switch to Plan9 to stay cool | 00:04 |
| jaem | lol | 00:04 |
| jaem | it was said tongue-in-cheek, of course | 00:05 |
| mavhc | wayfinder maps seem to be all straight lines, suppose that's easier to calculate, I've not yet worked out what I'd need to buy from their website to get portugal though | 00:05 |
| timelE61i | he could use hurd | 00:05 |
| jaem | it likely won't be cheap | 00:05 |
| Jaffa_ | LinuxHack3r: It's case sensitive. | 00:05 |
| wnd | jaem, you could also try debian gnu/hurd :-) | 00:05 |
| jaem | timelE61i: that reminds me - Stallman is coming to talk in my city | 00:06 |
| LinuxHack3r | Jaffa_: Oh..of course of course. I'll fool around with it later...mplayer for now! | 00:06 |
| jaem | it should be interesting | 00:06 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: It's pretty hard to understand what's going on if you don't know it :) | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: yeah, ok, - it is icons lighting up as it boots up | 00:06 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: ah | 00:06 |
| timelE61i | wAzd: | 00:06 |
| wazd | timelE61i: got what you mean :) | 00:06 |
| timelE61i | Basically 5 indicators | 00:07 |
| timelE61i | One per category | 00:07 |
| jaem | that would be nice | 00:07 |
| timelE61i | If the boot fails, it stops at a light | 00:07 |
| jaem | I like splash screens, but feedback is nice too | 00:07 |
| jaem | that would be a good compromise | 00:07 |
| timelE61i | And you immediately have a general idea what's dead | 00:07 |
| timelE61i | There's also a debug mode | 00:07 |
| jaem | I think we should keep the progress bar, though | 00:07 |
| timelE61i | Where you get the lights + text | 00:07 |
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| wazd | We could keep the progressbar and draw icons same time | 00:08 |
| timelE61i | Having watched this phone take a full minute to boot | 00:08 |
| wazd | Lets make some kind of ruller | 00:08 |
| timelE61i | Splash screens suck :) | 00:08 |
| mavhc | need to be able to press alt-f1 and see the normal linux loading text | 00:09 |
| dl9pf | any packaging expert here ? | 00:09 |
| timelE61i | - that was just 'til it wanted the sim code | 00:09 |
| jaem | TimelE61i: I meant in the sense that you were talking about | 00:09 |
| Jaffa_ | mavhc: tricky - where's alt? ;-) | 00:09 |
| Stskeeps | dl9pf: ask your question | 00:09 |
| timelE61i | jaffa: zoom in :) | 00:09 |
| Jaffa_ | dl9pf: if it's any consolation, the Council are currently interviewing people for the role of debmaster | 00:09 |
| mavhc | Jaffa_: it's only for advanced users who've replaced their keyboard | 00:09 |
| Jaffa_ | Quite right. Sod the newbies. | 00:09 |
| mavhc | where's f1? | 00:10 |
| timelE61i | seriously though, zoom in seems like a perfectly reasonable stroke at boot | 00:10 |
| Jaffa_ | mavhc: Touche | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa_: http://rafb.net/p/Iz5pEO82.html | 00:10 |
| timelE61i | (to turn on consolish boot output) | 00:10 |
| timelE61i | Dl9pf: control isn't hard to write | 00:11 |
| Jaffa_ | Stskeeps: mmm, comments ;-) | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa_: # MAGIC | 00:11 |
| dl9pf | Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/m594832c6 <-- maybe i'm just not seeing the wood for the trees | 00:11 |
| timelE61i | Timeless.jusrtdave.net/maemo has a bunch of open source debs | 00:11 |
| timelE61i | Er | 00:11 |
| timelE61i | Timeless.justdave.net/maemo has a bunch of open source debs | 00:11 |
| Jaffa_ | Stskeeps: have a static vmx alongside it, or auto-generate that from the same script so it's self contained? | 00:11 |
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| dl9pf | aah - now i'm a step further | 00:12 |
| timelE61i | Dl9pf, mxr.maemo.org/diablo/find?string=debian/control | 00:12 |
| timelE61i | Or /garage/ | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa_: you point a vmx to a vmdk, - but yes, just downloading a zip with .vmx and .vmdk could do the trick | 00:12 |
| timelE61i | For more examples | 00:12 |
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| Jaffa_ | Stskeeps: indeed | 00:12 |
| dl9pf | timelE61i: tnx will look | 00:13 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa_: but having a vmdk also enables people to load it in lets say, virtualbox :) but i guess that might have import feature to | 00:13 |
| Stskeeps | o | 00:13 |
| Jaffa_ | I think it's mostly disk, rather than vmx import. | 00:13 |
| timelE61i | Dl9pf: note that w/o "user/", your deb won't appear in h-a-m | 00:13 |
| dl9pf | ? | 00:14 |
| dl9pf | user/ ? | 00:14 |
| timelE61i | Also check w/ jaffa about proper section: values | 00:14 |
| dl9pf | aah ... section user/ ?? | 00:14 |
| Jaffa_ | dl9pf: correct. | 00:14 |
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| dl9pf | good point | 00:14 |
| dl9pf | so e.g. section user/utils ? | 00:14 |
| Jaffa_ | See http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_Categories - the App Manager hides non-end user packages by checking for "user/" at the start of the Section. | 00:14 |
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| timelE61i | Note that the first line of description is independent of the following lines | 00:15 |
| Jaffa_ | There's now a good list of all the categories one should use. Anything other than those will (at some point) appears in an "Other" category (which is bad ;-)) | 00:15 |
| timelE61i | You'll often see one or the other but not both | 00:15 |
| Jaffa_ | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories sorry | 00:15 |
| dl9pf | user/utilities then | 00:15 |
| timelE61i | You probably want Depends: samba-something | 00:16 |
| timelE61i | Unless it's truly optional | 00:16 |
| Jaffa_ | dl9pf: what are you working on? | 00:16 |
| timelE61i | If it's optional, you want Suggests: | 00:16 |
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| dl9pf | packaging csync (www.csync.org) gladiac is the author, btw | 00:16 |
| gladiac | :) | 00:17 |
| timelE61i | You probably need a depends bit for iniparser too | 00:17 |
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| timelE61i | Iirc there's a field for Upstream-maintainer: or something if you want to blame gladiac | 00:17 |
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| Jaffa_ | dl9pf: "user/utiltities" sounds best then | 00:17 |
| wazd | Jaffa: If i'll save Mer page's current code in the notepad - then I can restore it easily, right?) | 00:18 |
| Jaffa_ | wazd: or have a play in another page, and copy & paste it later. Then it won't be broken whilst you play. | 00:18 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: wiki also has history | 00:18 |
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| Jaffa_ | e.g. http://wiki.maemo.org/User:wazd/Sandbox/Mer | 00:18 |
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| wazd | Jaffa_: whoa, nice!) | 00:19 |
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| wazd | Jaffa_: thanks a lot) | 00:19 |
| timelE61i | http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/bugs-maemo-3591-0.1/DEBIAN/control - random example | 00:19 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: do you listen to podcasts? | 00:19 |
| timelE61i | Note that those debs are for bugs, so they're very custom and don't honor the section stuff | 00:20 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: you should try gpodder on the n810. | 00:20 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: if you do | 00:20 |
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| dl9pf | gpodder is great, but painfully slow here :( | 00:21 |
| sisto | it's slow on maemo? | 00:21 |
| sisto | maybe it's because it was done in python | 00:21 |
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| Jaffa_ | dl9pf: if it's primarily used with remote filesystems, perhaps even user/networking | 00:21 |
| dl9pf | we can change that - just trying to make it build atm ;) | 00:22 |
| Jaffa_ | indeed :) | 00:22 |
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| dl9pf | either utilities or networking | 00:22 |
| sisto | dl9pf: you should file a bug report... bugs.gpodder.org | 00:22 |
| Jaffa_ | csync looks cool, actually. | 00:23 |
| dl9pf | sisto: will do | 00:23 |
| dl9pf | Jaffa_: will be ready and installable as soon as it builds here ;) | 00:23 |
| dl9pf | al dependencies are already done | 00:23 |
| sisto | dl9pf: thanks! pls try to be specific as to when it slows down | 00:23 |
| * Jaffa_ needs to fix his vim build in a minute | 00:23 | |
| timelE61i | i think networking sounds right | 00:23 |
| Jaffa_ | Sorry, user/network | 00:24 |
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| * Jaffa_ checks his own table, again | 00:24 | |
| timelE61i | i meant v. Utils | 00:25 |
| dl9pf | control looks now: http://pastebin.com/m58738844 | 00:25 |
| * timelE61i already pointed to jaffa re spelling | 00:25 | |
| dl9pf | sigh missed on section entry ... | 00:25 |
| * Jaffa_ said "networking" too :) | 00:25 | |
| timelE61i | oh hrr | 00:26 |
| timelE61i | You might not need those depends bit | 00:26 |
| timelE61i | It depends on whether shlibsdeps works | 00:26 |
| timelE61i | If you're building, try w/o and check the resulting file | 00:26 |
| timelE61i | Sorry, i'm used to writing control files from scratch | 00:26 |
| dl9pf | ok | 00:27 |
| timelE61i | And building debs w/ dpkg-deb | 00:27 |
| timelE61i | But you won't do that | 00:27 |
| mavhc | gpodder seemed to use up loads of ram when I tried it, I switched to a combination of canola and videocenter | 00:27 |
| timelE61i | I suspect section doesn't belong in the source package thing | 00:28 |
| timelE61i | Similarly for priority | 00:28 |
| timelE61i | They should be related to "'binary"' | 00:28 |
| timelE61i | Definitely check out some samples from /diablo/ or /garage/ | 00:29 |
| dl9pf | http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html only recommended - will read other files | 00:29 |
| timelE61i | mxr.maemo.org/garage/find?string=debian/control | 00:29 |
| dl9pf | thx for the mxr link | 00:29 |
| dl9pf | thats what i need to get used to it | 00:29 |
| timelE61i | these are all hand typed btw | 00:31 |
| timelE61i | They're very predictable, but the ui lets you build your own :) | 00:31 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa_: http://rafb.net/p/MSpPIV66.html | 00:31 |
| Stskeeps | (tar.gz is the filesystem) | 00:32 |
| Stskeeps | vmdk is an actual ext3 fs | 00:32 |
| timelE61i | Come on guys, get it to fit into 128m ; | 00:32 |
| wazd | Wiki engine is pretty impressive, I think I can craft something cool there :) | 00:32 |
| timelE61i | ;) | 00:32 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: on x86? :P | 00:32 |
| timelE61i | Arm | 00:33 |
| timelE61i | That's my card size :) | 00:33 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: hehe. :P | 00:33 |
| timelE61i | It came w/ my n800 | 00:33 |
| timelE61i | (it's the only one i can find) | 00:33 |
| Stskeeps | the 'sardine' distribution was referring to the size of sardine cans, wasn't it.. | 00:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:33 |
| timelE61i | I don't think so | 00:33 |
| timelE61i | More to the fact that things were canned and smelly | 00:34 |
| Jaffa_ | wazd: hopefully some of the tricks I've used already will help you :) | 00:34 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:34 |
| timelE61i | The idea was that it'd be an unstable | 00:34 |
| timelE61i | A way to push things for testing as a rolling target | 00:34 |
| jaem | does anyone have any idea what the approximate shipping weight of the N810 is? I don't have a scale handy | 00:35 |
| Jaffa_ | Stskeeps: That is very cool. | 00:35 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa_: better than the %%"!# 500mb side of the old vdi | 00:35 |
| Stskeeps | size | 00:35 |
| wazd | Jaffa_: sure! Your template was best tutorial I ever found) | 00:36 |
| wazd | Jaffa_: And I like your buttons too :) | 00:37 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: dum question; could i make those diffs using dpkg?, if so, how? | 00:37 |
| timelE61i | jAffa? | 00:37 |
| Jaffa_ | wazd: flattery'll get you anywhere | 00:37 |
| Jaffa_ | tImelE61i? | 00:37 |
| timelE61i | do we have any os2007 devices around? | 00:37 |
| timelE61i | I want to know if snooze time was adjustable | 00:38 |
| Jaffa_ | In Clock? | 00:38 |
| * Jaffa_ doesn't have any available to him. Can't remember either. It rings a vague bell (no pun intended), but I'm in no way sure | 00:38 | |
| timelE61i | yeah | 00:38 |
| timelE61i | A user filed a bug | 00:38 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: you in ubuntu doing it or? | 00:38 |
| timelE61i | And i think andre__ misinterpretted it | 00:39 |
| timelE61i | The bug report sucked | 00:39 |
| timelE61i | So it's hard to be certain | 00:39 |
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| Jaffa_ | #? | 00:39 |
| b-man | atm, i'm in a chroot, but i could boot into it at any time ;) | 00:39 |
| * andre__ reads the backlog | 00:39 | |
| timelE61i | aNdre__: my guess is the reporter of 4007(?) meant a way to control the snooze time when the alarm reads | 00:40 |
| timelE61i | Err rings | 00:40 |
| andre__ | no idea if snooze was adjustable in os2007 | 00:40 |
| andre__ | seems it will be available again in harmattan... | 00:40 |
| timelE61i | The ui i know of (having translated it for 2008) | 00:40 |
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| timelE61i | Is for the clock app | 00:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, I'm quite certain it wasn't. | 00:40 |
| timelE61i | And controls a default(fixed) time for the snooze button when it rings | 00:40 |
| timelE61i | But my guess is the user wanted to control how long the ringing alarm snoozed | 00:41 |
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| lardman | evening all | 00:41 |
| timelE61i | Not sure. I'll check swift when i vpn to see what strings 2007 had | 00:41 |
| woglinde | hi lardman | 00:41 |
| * b-man trys googling for a diff guide | 00:41 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, excellent timing. :P | 00:41 |
| timelE61i | Diff -upN | 00:42 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: good or bad? | 00:42 |
| timelE61i | (dead tv net) | 00:42 |
| Jaffa_ | Hard. | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: diff -ruN | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: diff -ruN dir1 dir2 | 00:42 |
| andre__ | timelE61i, well he filed 4006 and 4007 | 00:42 |
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| b-man | Stskeeps: thanks | 00:43 |
| lardman | thanks Jaffa_ | 00:43 |
| timelE61i | Andre: looking (low battery) | 00:43 |
| lardman | re email | 00:43 |
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| timelE61i | Andre: ui team sucks | 00:43 |
| andre__ | the other one is that he wanted to have the alarm repeating more than 4 times if he simply ignores the alarm | 00:43 |
| andre__ | not only UI team :-P | 00:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also: andre__ :P | 00:44 |
| timelE61i | He's right | 00:44 |
| timelE61i | Wait | 00:44 |
| timelE61i | sTupid q | 00:44 |
| dob | are the /media/mmc* dirs supposed to exist if there's no card installed? | 00:44 |
| andre__ | GeneralAntilles: I can suck too, correct. :-P | 00:44 |
| timelE61i | What's the dialog say the 4th time? | 00:44 |
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| timelE61i | Is one button "snooze"? | 00:45 |
| andre__ | yes. it's still the same dialog from the very first time | 00:45 |
| andre__ | because user did not touch the device | 00:45 |
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| timelE61i | Oh | 00:45 |
| timelE61i | This isn't snooze x4 | 00:45 |
| timelE61i | It's ignore x4 | 00:45 |
| andre__ | no, it's the "i stay in my bed and ignore everything" usecase | 00:46 |
| lardman | well even if I do say so myself, ssvb's sbc patches do sound much better | 00:46 |
| timelE61i | After 4 it should auto-snooze | 00:46 |
| andre__ | it did autosnooze 4 times before | 00:46 |
| andre__ | (or 3 times, to be correct) | 00:46 |
| timelE61i | wait | 00:46 |
| timelE61i | What's the ring interval? | 00:47 |
| timelE61i | 5mins? | 00:47 |
| andre__ | 10min iirc | 00:47 |
| andre__ | dunno, it's in the spec | 00:47 |
| andre__ | i think it was 10 | 00:47 |
| timelE61i | It's configurable in the ui | 00:47 |
| andre__ | yeah, in fremantle | 00:47 |
| andre__ | but not in diablo | 00:47 |
| timelE61i | no | 00:47 |
| andre__ | uh? | 00:47 |
| timelE61i | I was translating diablo strings earlier this week | 00:47 |
| timelE61i | App menu, alarms, set snooze something iirc | 00:48 |
| johnx | oooh, tipped off about fremantle features *runs to blog it* | 00:48 |
| andre__ | timelE61i, uh, you are right | 00:48 |
| andre__ | it's in diablo | 00:48 |
| Jaffa_ | johnx: the world'll be alight with the changes to the snooze functionality | 00:48 |
| x29a | hm, adding my passwords to the dictionary is not so smart | 00:48 |
| timelE61i | I translated it this week ;) | 00:48 |
| andre__ | johnx, that's absolutely no news, sorry :-P | 00:48 |
| Stskeeps | x29a: webkit? | 00:48 |
| radic_ | argh | 00:49 |
| timelE61i | My memory for bad strings is pretty good :) | 00:49 |
| andre__ | hehe | 00:49 |
| timelE61i | I didn't like them | 00:49 |
| radic_ | my USB-cables are too long | 00:49 |
| x29a | Stskeeps: dunno, the thing that normally propouses words | 00:49 |
| RST38h | johnx: url! url! | 00:49 |
| dob | bleh, no opentyrian in repos? :C | 00:49 |
| timelE61i | So, again | 00:49 |
| radic_ | only the high-quality cable works | 00:49 |
| timelE61i | What did the user want | 00:49 |
| Stskeeps | dob: did we establish if your MMC was fried or not btw? | 00:49 |
| timelE61i | Was the help bad? | 00:49 |
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| radic_ | on the others my hub disconnects and connects... | 00:50 |
| timelE61i | Find out what os he was using | 00:50 |
| timelE61i | And what he really wanted | 00:50 |
| andre__ | crap. time to change the bug report to invalid then, if the feature already exists :-P | 00:50 |
| johnx | x29a, all we need now is a nice button to upload the dictionary to a script kiddie forum :) | 00:50 |
| dob | Stskeeps: nope, I'll try to see if I can borrow a card to test some day | 00:50 |
| Stskeeps | dob: alright | 00:50 |
| andre__ | i think he simply did not find that setting | 00:50 |
| timelE61i | Find out if he checked help | 00:51 |
| x29a | johnx: i bet (like steve jobs) you guys have some backdoords and listeners | 00:51 |
| x29a | i dont wonna know what my N810 is quietly doing, while im asleep | 00:51 |
| andre__ | but real men never read the help files! ;-) | 00:51 |
| timelE61i | Keep in mind that if neither he nor you can find the feasture | 00:51 |
| timelE61i | It doesn't exist | 00:51 |
| johnx | x29a, idling :P | 00:51 |
| timelE61i | And is buggy | 00:51 |
| * b-man doesn't understand why diff doesn't see /usr/libexec/deb/merinstaller_1.9.3-1mer1 :( | 00:51 | |
| x29a | johnx: thats what the media try to tell me, im not a believer! | 00:51 |
| timelE61i | One should not need to translaste a device to figure out how to use it | 00:52 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: I understand there's no audio in Mer? | 00:52 |
| radic_ | Stskeeps: will the MSI USB-stick work if I connect it to the N800? | 00:52 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: now building automatically: x86, x86 VMDK, x86 rootstrap (+ apt-proxy using rootstrap), armel-rootstrap (SB, builder SB, general buildd), 770, n800, n8x0 :P | 00:52 |
| johnx | lardman, correct for now, but a2dp works great | 00:52 |
| Stskeeps | it does? | 00:52 |
| lardman | johnx: is that from bluez 4.xx? | 00:53 |
| radic_ | Stskeeps: I don't know | 00:53 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: but yes, no audio atm | 00:53 |
| Stskeeps | radic_: i have utter no idea | 00:53 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: why's that? | 00:53 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: i thought you need DSP tasks for it? | 00:53 |
| johnx | lardman, whatever's in ubuntu 9.04. works fine, but it's ~40% CPU usage for decoding. not sure what CPU speed that was | 00:53 |
| lardman | well that answers the question then :) | 00:53 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, is that the new build order if I type build foo? | 00:53 |
| lardman | johnx: hmm, sounds a bit high, but I guess libmad + sbc would do that | 00:54 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: heheh, no | 00:54 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Stskeeps/Sandbox/Nokia_Wishlist | 00:54 |
| *** b-man is now known as FireFox | 00:54 | |
| Stskeeps | lardman: you probably know more about 770 and other things that could be useful to have | 00:54 |
| timelE61i | dsp is afaiu always optional | 00:54 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: I was wondering if the ARM-side kernel driver for the audio codec was being used | 00:54 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: diablo kernel, didn't touch arm-side one yet :P | 00:54 |
| lardman | timelE61i: nah, it does the mixing & output on the standard machines | 00:54 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: ah, ok, cool | 00:55 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: we do need work in the sound area so experiments are welcome | 00:55 |
| timelE61i | i mean technically | 00:55 |
| lardman | well yes it's possible, needs the kernel driver though | 00:55 |
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| * lardman looks around for a spare card onto which to install Mer | 00:56 | |
| * Jaffa_ offs, cash machine & beddingly. | 00:57 | |
| johnx | timelE61i, yes, true from a hardware perspective. | 00:57 |
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| lardman | hmm, would you believe I have a USB-SD adaptor that won't read SD cards >1GB correctly? | 01:00 |
| lardman | rubbish | 01:00 |
| lcuk | ummm, if i have a memory card thats giving errors (it crashed and a few files are just unreadable or deleteable) | 01:00 |
| lcuk | what do i do to the filesystem to make it better? (chkdsk) | 01:00 |
| lardman | try another card reader - I thought I'd lost all my photos from Oz, but it was the bloody reader - as soon as I stuck it in the n800 they were all there | 01:01 |
| lardman | lcuk: Windows or Linux? | 01:01 |
| lcuk | ive not lost anything | 01:01 |
| lcuk | its locked on the .o files and nothing can remove or delete them | 01:01 |
| lcuk | on device | 01:01 |
| lcuk | linux | 01:01 |
| lardman | well I had the same, could see the files but not read them, they all appeared to be truncated | 01:02 |
| lardman | hmm | 01:02 |
| lardman | fsck | 01:02 |
| lcuk | yeah, bad chains or whatnot | 01:02 |
| lcuk | no need to swear, but i just tried that its not found | 01:02 |
| lardman | umount it, then run fsck on the device (partition) | 01:02 |
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| johnx | lcuk, rootsh fsck /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 01:02 |
| lcuk | fsck: No such file or directory | 01:03 |
| lcuk | how do i find out what fs it is (its not the FAT one) | 01:03 |
| lardman | fdisk | 01:03 |
| lardman | on the drive, not the device | 01:03 |
| johnx | lcuk, are you root? | 01:03 |
| lcuk | not found, im on 810 here | 01:03 |
| lcuk | yeah | 01:03 |
| lardman | hmm | 01:04 |
| lardman | try giving an explicit path to the binary, either /usr/sbin or /sbin | 01:04 |
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| lardman | oh no, not there either | 01:04 |
| radic_ | I disabled the transparent mouse-courser and connectet my Logitech MX500 to an active hub | 01:04 |
| radic_ | but it dosn_t works | 01:04 |
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| johnx | radic_, in mer or maemo? | 01:05 |
| lardman | lcuk: is it ext2 the fs? | 01:05 |
| radic_ | johnx: on my N800 | 01:05 |
| lcuk | i dunno | 01:05 |
| lcuk | likely | 01:05 |
| radic_ | johnx: mous is detected | 01:05 |
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| johnx | lcuk, try becoming root first then type just 'fsck' | 01:06 |
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| lcuk | i am root | 01:07 |
| lcuk | installing e2fslibs | 01:08 |
| Stskeeps | e2fsprogs | 01:08 |
| lcuk | :) ta | 01:08 |
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| *** lardman has joined #maemo | 01:09 | |
| lardman | re | 01:09 |
| johnx | ah! dur...fsck saying not found, not bash saying not found | 01:09 |
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| lcuk | johnx, you said "fsck /dev/mmcblk0p1" is that for mmc1 or 2 - its my external removable card | 01:09 |
| johnx | need more coffee | 01:09 |
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| lardman | I can't seem to find fdisk in the repo, but e2fsprogs and dosfstools should sort the fsck stuff for both ext2 and vfat | 01:09 |
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| lcuk | lardman, i have e2fsprogs thanks :) | 01:10 |
| lardman | lcuk: blk0 = 1st card | 01:10 |
| * lcuk started to find it but was guided home by Stskeeps :D | 01:10 | |
| lardman | sorry, missed some stuff when my connection timed out | 01:10 |
| lardman | though 1st card is not necessarily mmc1 | 01:10 |
| lardman | look at mount output | 01:10 |
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| FireFox | lardman: i believe e2fsprogs provides fsdisk ;) | 01:11 |
| FireFox | re: sfdisk | 01:11 |
| lardman | FireFox: cool, thanks | 01:11 |
| gladiac | util-linux | 01:11 |
| johnx | lcuk, as silly as this is: mmcblk0 -> internal -> /media/mmc2. mmcblk1 -> external -> /media/mmc1 | 01:12 |
| gladiac | provides fdisk | 01:12 |
| johnx | also, sfdisk is included on the tablet | 01:12 |
| jaem | @x29a's comment about passwords, how does one reset the Maemo autosuggest list? | 01:12 |
| johnx | sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk? will give you a list | 01:12 |
| x29a | jaem: intresting point | 01:13 |
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| lcuk | /dev/mmcblk1p1: ***** FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED ***** | 01:13 |
| lcuk | /dev/mmcblk1p1: 7900/124160 files (3.4% non-contiguous), 136070/247998 blocks | 01:13 |
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| lardman | jaem: iirc somewhere under control panel | 01:13 |
| lcuk | that was after about 400 different things | 01:13 |
| jaem | lardman: really? I couldn't find it | 01:13 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: tap and hold the word | 01:13 |
| radic_ | hm | 01:13 |
| Stskeeps | and click remove | 01:13 |
| lcuk | if i reboot it will remount everything wont it | 01:14 |
| jaem | Stskeeps: >< *so* intuitive | 01:14 |
| radic_ | If I move the mouse the screen is going on... | 01:14 |
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| Stskeeps | jaem: tips and tricks | 01:14 |
| Stskeeps | radic_: there's a guide about mice support somewhere on iTT | 01:14 |
| Stskeeps | i think | 01:14 |
| johnx | radic_, I believe xomap doesn't support it directly or similar | 01:14 |
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| radic_ | Stskeeps: iTT? | 01:14 |
| lardman | ~itt | 01:15 |
| infobot | methinks itt is the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums ) | 01:15 |
| lcuk | phew! thank you guys | 01:15 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, just read your jaiku about supported systems. I get it now :) | 01:16 |
| x29a | Stskeeps: will the word be removed ore removed and blocked? | 01:16 |
| Stskeeps | x29a: removed i think | 01:16 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: hehe. it's a giant list of images :P | 01:16 |
| x29a | hm | 01:16 |
| Stskeeps | some of them are internal only | 01:16 |
| lcuk | note to self: rotated xv is unstable in diablo | 01:16 |
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| lardman | hmm, after a great start, a2dp is not sounding so great :( | 01:17 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I need to work on imager for zaurus. One image sill support: zauruses c750, c760, c860, c1000, c3000, c3100 and c32000 more or less | 01:17 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: alright | 01:17 |
| johnx | at least I have an x server for it building now | 01:18 |
| ds3 | remember the poor collie that started it! | 01:18 |
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| johnx | ds3, I know :( I still have mine, but I think mer on the collie is a lost cause | 01:18 |
| ds3 | johnx: what is the issue? ARMv4? | 01:18 |
| lardman | lack of RAM I expect | 01:19 |
| lardman | 16MB doesn't really cut it these days | 01:19 |
| johnx | lardman, nah, 64MB of RAM for most collies | 01:19 |
| lardman | ah, true | 01:19 |
| ds3 | 64M no good? | 01:19 |
| ds3 | 32M were in the demo give aways | 01:19 |
| lardman | mine included, I just haven't seen it for a long while | 01:19 |
| x29a | johnx: why not collie? | 01:19 |
| lardman | ah well ignore me, I forgot it wasn't that bad :) | 01:19 |
| johnx | ds3, combination of armv4 (no EABI support), 320x240 screen, limited hardware support in 2.6 | 01:20 |
| x29a | lol, sorry for my laggy question | 01:20 |
| johnx | and that screen is really 240x320 | 01:20 |
| woglinde | gcc-4.4 will have ebai support for armv4 | 01:20 |
| johnx | even if we got everything running on debian etch ARM OABI I don't see many apps being usable at 240x320 | 01:20 |
| ds3 | the EABI part I can understand... the rest is jjust mere work ;) | 01:20 |
| johnx | better to stick with GPE or Opie | 01:20 |
| johnx | ds3, if you want to look at it I would be more than happy to help and give guidance | 01:21 |
| lcuk | book reader would be usable at 240*320 | 01:21 |
| lcuk | sketching | 01:21 |
| jaem | johnx: have you tried running QTopia on Zaurii or Palms? | 01:21 |
| lcuk | map for some things | 01:21 |
| lcuk | pictures | 01:21 |
| lcuk | calendar | 01:21 |
| lcuk | even rss | 01:21 |
| johnx | lcuk, and it is...already :P | 01:21 |
| jaem | Opie is unmaintained, and incomplete | 01:21 |
| wazd | hmm, seems like background options are disabled in Maemo Wiki :( | 01:21 |
| woglinde | jaem its qt-extened now | 01:21 |
| lcuk | :) lots of things dont need mega resolution | 01:21 |
| ds3 | johnx: I normally would but right now, that falls behind beagle board projects :/ | 01:21 |
| radic_ | I think I need some sleep | 01:21 |
| jaem | woglinde: yes - thinko | 01:22 |
| lcuk | yeah johnx | 01:22 |
| radic_ | I tried to put the N800 charger into an USB-bluetooth-stick | 01:22 |
| Stskeeps | ds3: if you have beagleboard, get ubuntu jaunty + kernel going, and you have Mer, too ;) | 01:22 |
| ds3 | cuz another device that'd be ideal is the Jornada's | 01:22 |
| johnx | ds3, exactly. I don't think overcommitting is a good idea right now | 01:22 |
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| ds3 | Stskeeps: why ubuntu? | 01:22 |
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| johnx | ds3, modern, stable distro, and upstart | 01:23 |
| ds3 | the issue with the beagleboard is it lacks a standard display and touch screen | 01:23 |
| radic_ | sibbe: what's .uy for a country? | 01:23 |
| ds3 | johnx: I don't believe in distros | 01:23 |
| radic_ | sisto: what's .uy for a country? | 01:23 |
| Stskeeps | ds3: basis of mer, so :P | 01:23 |
| ds3 | UY == URUGUAY | 01:23 |
| radic_ | ahh | 01:23 |
| johnx | ds3, soooo...you role your own every new install? | 01:23 |
| ds3 | Stskeeps: oh :( thought it was just a userland | 01:23 |
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| ds3 | johnx: actually, yes | 01:23 |
| johnx | bootstrap a compiler on a running system, then copy files over? | 01:24 |
| ds3 | pretty close to it... use whatever CD, etc I can boot off as a root disk and go from there | 01:24 |
| ds3 | it is way less painful then dealing with packages (nightmare getting stuff on the eeePC this weekend) | 01:24 |
| johnx | jeez. every time you get a new laptop or desktop? | 01:24 |
| * lardman needs tweezers to remove the micro SD card from the n810 | 01:25 | |
| ds3 | yes, the eeePC is an experiment in see what I have to compromise to use the included distro | 01:25 |
| ds3 | in seeing... | 01:25 |
| jaem | lardman: click it with the butt of the stylus | 01:25 |
| jaem | that works well | 01:25 |
| lcuk | lol lardman, dont you press it and it pings | 01:25 |
| lardman | yeah, didn't ping out enough | 01:25 |
| johnx | anyways, if you're that serious, just take our debian source packages and compile them. There's not all that much that's terrbily ubuntu-centric | 01:25 |
| johnx | it's just that we only provide packages for ubuntu | 01:25 |
| lcuk | click it in again and try again - you are going for the overzealous toaster impression | 01:26 |
| ds3 | johnx: of course, my desktop was last built with SLS as the root disk | 01:26 |
| johnx | O_o; wow | 01:26 |
| ds3 | if I weren't in beagle land right now, I'd do exact that | 01:26 |
| jaem | say, why don't we redo Mer based on Gentoo? | 01:26 |
| jaem | *not serious* | 01:26 |
| ds3 | download source deb's, ar x,and untar | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: how about you try compiling GTK over 3 days.. | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 01:26 |
| lardman | urgh | 01:26 |
| johnx | jaem, stab, stab, stab :P | 01:26 |
| lardman | :) +10 | 01:27 |
| jaem | everybody loves compiling | 01:27 |
| lardman | nothing personal of course | 01:27 |
| lcuk | only their personal little bit of compiling though | 01:27 |
| ds3 | the last usable system for the N800, IMO is Chinook | 01:27 |
| johnx | jaem, actually I never tried qt-extended on the collie. I might later | 01:27 |
| ds3 | so I am really longing for another usable OS | 01:27 |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 01:27 | |
| johnx | ds3, what's your biggest complaint against diablo? | 01:27 |
| jaem | johnx: I have a Palm Zire 72 sitting around - do you know what sort of resources qt-extended needs? | 01:28 |
| * lcuk thinks mer can be nice and stable and shaking the cobwebs out of the corner can only be a good thing | 01:28 | |
| ds3 | johnx: it doesn't work with the things that worked in chinook | 01:28 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: it's not cobwebs only. it's freaking mutant spiders. | 01:28 |
| johnx | Stskeeps++ | 01:28 |
| jaem | like... spiderman? | 01:28 |
| * lardman grabs the BFG | 01:28 | |
| *** gnuton is now known as Gnut[OFF] | 01:28 | |
| *** Gnut[OFF] is now known as gnuton | 01:29 | |
| lcuk | :) | 01:29 |
| ds3 | Bluetooth KB for me is broq, Network masks w/static IP's is broq, the mail program included is broq (looses mail) | 01:29 |
| ds3 | there were others but that's what I remember right now | 01:29 |
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| johnx | ds3, well, on a sytem level this will be closer to ubuntu, so bt keyboard and netmasks will likely be fixed. For mail client: use anything that runs on ARM | 01:30 |
| johnx | also: compiling for it or on it should be much simpler | 01:30 |
| ds3 | johnx: I am using claws on Chinook at the moment... so that can be worked around... it is the rest that pissed me off | 01:30 |
| johnx | actually, it would be a good bootstrapping system if you wanted to jump off into LFS or similar | 01:30 |
| ds3 | if PM works well, I might loaded on the 770 as a test platform | 01:31 |
| lcuk | johnx :) +1 compiling, it needs to be able to handle "./configure" as a priority :) theres 90% of code i cannot even touch yet even if i want to | 01:31 |
| johnx | lcuk, already done :P now why are you still on maemo? | 01:32 |
| ds3 | Nooooooo not configure, use a config.h file please! | 01:32 |
| ds3 | and chuck libtool | 01:32 |
| lcuk | i have a single 1gb mmc | 01:32 |
| lcuk | it hosts liqbase :) | 01:32 |
| Stskeeps | libtool needs to die, no question about that | 01:32 |
| t_s_o | heh, seems i have been using echowb so long that i have missed (or forgotten) that modest has a big scrollbar now | 01:32 |
| woglinde | I like libtool | 01:33 |
| lcuk | i dont need to compile anything yet - but very soon i will, im being annoyed by xv and rotation | 01:33 |
| johnx | ds3, we use whatever is available. we're not out to reinvent a packaging / build system :P | 01:33 |
| ds3 | woglinde: do you cross compile? | 01:33 |
| lcuk | when will mer have the fremantle kernel and stuff? | 01:33 |
| woglinde | sure | 01:33 |
| ds3 | johnx: *nod* | 01:33 |
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| woglinde | the other compilesystem arent better | 01:33 |
| t_s_o | to bad it seems one cant use dbus-switchboard to control what programs gets used for the bookmarks in the quick menu... | 01:34 |
| johnx | lcuk, uhm, never? | 01:34 |
| lcuk | ahhh the kernel is tied to the hardware? | 01:35 |
| johnx | lcuk, if the 770 -> N8x0 transition is anything to go by, 2.6.21 is the last Nokia kernel for the N8x0. We'll have a more modern kernel from the linux-omap branch...eventually | 01:35 |
| lcuk | mm | 01:36 |
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| lcuk | but havent they released a new kernel? isnt that what everyone was wetting themselves over re rx-51? | 01:36 |
| johnx | lcuk, yeah, they released all sorts of kernel support for the RX-51 OMAP3 | 01:37 |
| lardman | hmm, what else do I need to insmod to get ext2.ko to go in? | 01:37 |
| johnx | and in that case, it looks like more will end up upstream than with the kernels for OMAP1 or OMAP2 | 01:37 |
| johnx | lardman, mbcache and ... something else | 01:38 |
| lardman | thanks | 01:38 |
| lardman | that was enough | 01:38 |
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| lcuk | ok johnx, i just thought the new one was gonna be used. im dreading having to go into the innards of xv and x11 to see what the problem is (i need a sane build system first before i can even try) | 01:39 |
| * lcuk is pleased though because he *can* go and try to solve problem | 01:40 | |
| johnx | hmm? what problem? | 01:40 |
| lardman | bootmenu installation didn't ask me the questions detailed here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.6#Nokia_N8x0_-_Installer_files_.28simple.29 | 01:40 |
| lcuk | today i used wine to solve a windows problem | 01:40 |
| lardman | lol | 01:40 |
| johnx | lardman, did it ask anything or just briefly appear and disappear? | 01:40 |
| johnx | lcuk, awesome :D | 01:41 |
| lcuk | johnx, using rotation on xv causes an x11 bailout | 01:41 |
| lardman | johnx: it asked where I wanted to install the shortcut - I said Utilities | 01:41 |
| johnx | lardman, what happens when you run from that shortcut | 01:41 |
| johnx | it's two stages: install deb, then launch from menu and install bootmenu | 01:41 |
| lardman | ah, that I've not tried yet, instructions need modification in that case | 01:41 |
| sisto | radic_: uruguay | 01:42 |
| x29a | lol | 01:43 |
| x29a | *simpsons scene jumps in my mind* | 01:43 |
| johnx | lardman, fixed the instructions a little bit :) | 01:44 |
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| lardman | good stuff :) | 01:44 |
| sisto | x29a: haha | 01:44 |
| sisto | i saw it | 01:44 |
| *** gnuton is now known as Gnut[OFF] | 01:44 | |
| lopz | hey! | 01:44 |
| lardman | I've just changed it too | 01:46 |
| * johnx fixes punctuation | 01:46 | |
| johnx | my own, that is. :) | 01:47 |
| StsN800 | also current installer dies after passwd setup. run sudo gainroot, refresh_bootmenu.d after that | 01:47 |
| lardman | :) I was wondering what I'd got wrong | 01:47 |
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| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 01:51 | |
| lardman | annoying the way dpkg remembers failed installs | 01:54 |
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| LinuxHack3r | I just tried the mail program thing...it's ok. Is there something more though, in terms of a better imapclient? | 01:55 |
| johnx | claws mail | 01:55 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: I was under the impression that that is what I was using...but perhaps not. I was using whatever is installed by default. | 01:56 |
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| johnx | modest is in by default | 01:56 |
| johnx | claws is a more traditional, full featured client | 01:56 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: Is it closer to thunderbird? | 01:57 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: nice installer | 01:57 |
| johnx | LinuxHack3r, I would say yes | 01:57 |
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| LinuxHack3r | Great...lets give it a try. | 01:57 |
| woglinde | good nite | 01:58 |
| johnx | 'night woglinde | 01:58 |
| StsN800 | lardman, b-man did it | 01:58 |
| lardman | night woglinde | 01:58 |
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| LinuxHack3r | johnx: *Oh good...I thought claws crashed...but it's just the setup wizard! | 01:58 |
| * FireFox makes a mental note to not use FireFox as a user name at #ubuntu :p | 01:58 | |
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| lardman | lol @FireFox | 01:59 |
| FireFox | hehe - thay think i'm an expert at firefox XD | 02:00 |
| * lardman brings his fry-up skills to the fore :) | 02:00 | |
| * lcuk brings the bacon | 02:00 | |
| lardman | yay! | 02:00 |
| FireFox | woho | 02:00 |
| lardman | stop lcuk, I should go to bed soon, not start cooking :) | 02:01 |
| * FireFox grabs two pieces | 02:01 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Mmm | 02:01 |
| lcuk | tracy came back with some to stock up our very bare fridge, she stood in the shop deciding what to get me, i love her more every day :D | 02:01 |
| * lardman takes the other 10 then :) | 02:01 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I should make some cookies. | 02:01 |
| FireFox | lardman: lol | 02:01 |
| lcuk | lol | 02:01 |
| jaem | GA: what privacy policy comes with your baking? | 02:02 |
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| lardman | I could do with some food, I foolishly decided to stop driving to work and have walked in and back twice today | 02:02 |
| lcuk | :) lardman, thats not foolish | 02:02 |
| lardman | you've not seen the hill! :) | 02:02 |
| lcuk | you've not seen your toes in a while. it all balances out eventually | 02:03 |
| FireFox | lol XD | 02:03 |
| lardman | only a mile each way, but seriously uphill | 02:03 |
| lcuk | both ways! | 02:03 |
| jaem | darn - you beat me to it | 02:03 |
| lardman | :D | 02:03 |
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| * jaem is a fool | 02:04 | |
| lcuk | i think my boss is gonna get himself a tablet by the way :) | 02:04 |
| * jaem has forgotten his pgp passphrase | 02:04 | |
| jaem | lcuk: nice! | 02:04 |
| x29a | bruteforce! | 02:04 |
| lcuk | yes jaem, very nice indeed | 02:04 |
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| jaem | x29a: that would be fun... on my dual-core Atom board | 02:05 |
| x29a | lolz, atom | 02:05 |
| jaem | well, I have root access to my friend's quad | 02:05 |
| * lardman looks at Google terrain maps and sees 80-?180m in ~1mile | 02:06 | |
| lardman | s/-?/-> | 02:06 |
| jaem | but that wouldn't help me | 02:06 |
| jaem | not with 4kb RSA | 02:06 |
| johnx | jaem, maybe some time on amazon's SC3? :D | 02:08 |
| jaem | or, maybe GA could hold a bake sale on #maemo, to buy some FPGAs | 02:08 |
| jaem | Deep Crack Mk II | 02:08 |
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| jaem | well, I have a revocation cert, at least | 02:09 |
| jaem | but that's not the solution I was hoping for | 02:09 |
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| lardman | hmm, openpandora really does appear dodgy, johnx you here still? | 02:16 |
| jaem | lardman: why do you say that? | 02:16 |
| johnx | lardman, yup. still here in both senses :) | 02:16 |
| lardman | well just looking at the latest blog entry saying "the last LCDs will ship soon", but I read a while back that all the parts were delivered | 02:16 |
| johnx | I would s/dodgy/horribly unlucky, rather disorganized and somewhat poorly planned/ | 02:17 |
| lcuk | cya later folks | 02:17 |
| jaem | johnx: I would tend to agree | 02:17 |
| dl9pf | deb http://frodo-auenland.dyndns.org/maemo/diablo/n810/ ./ | 02:17 |
| dl9pf | for csync | 02:17 |
| FireFox | see ya, lcuk | 02:17 |
| lardman | well s/dodgy/intentionally misleading to make sure enough cash is available | 02:17 |
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| jaem | the device looks pretty awesome, and it's cheaper than I got my N810 for, so if it ships at all, I'd still give them some credit | 02:17 |
| StsN800 | jaem, through bank transfer? | 02:18 |
| lardman | yeah, except they won't take credit cards any more | 02:18 |
| johnx | lardman, I honestly think most of it is poor communication and language barriers, not intentional, but I have been accused of optimism WRT the project :P | 02:18 |
| jaem | Sts: I meant credit as in "woohoo, pat on the back" | 02:18 |
| johnx | whoosh! | 02:19 |
| lardman | StsN800: that "enter new root password" dialog might need some work - it capitalises the first letter | 02:19 |
| StsN800 | lardman, yeah, zenity bug i think | 02:19 |
| johnx | huh...not seeing that behavior in first-boot-wizard... | 02:20 |
| lardman | that was from the Mer installer | 02:20 |
| johnx | right, but zenity in both cases | 02:21 |
| lardman | yep, just being specific :p | 02:21 |
| lardman | ;) | 02:21 |
| lardman | hmm, press and hold menu didn't work too well that time... | 02:21 |
| * lardman sits and twiddles thumbs waiting for Maemo to come up | 02:22 | |
| StsN800 | lardman, and now refresh_bootmenu.d if you forgot | 02:22 |
| lardman | run it, or vi it? | 02:22 |
| StsN800 | run | 02:22 |
| lardman | ok, cool | 02:22 |
| StsN800 | the thing about bug in installer earlier | 02:23 |
| lardman | hmm, so that flashes initfs again? | 02:25 |
| lardman | rather than editing a conf file? | 02:25 |
| lardman | anyway, booting now | 02:26 |
| StsN800 | it flashes current boot conf from rootfs to initfs | 02:26 |
| lardman | ok | 02:27 |
| lardman | might be better to get it to look at the conf file on the normal flash, rather than repeatedly flashing initfs | 02:27 |
| lardman | though I suppose it's generally just a one-off | 02:27 |
| StsN800 | rootfs takes ages to mount | 02:27 |
| lardman | ah, ok, I see the reasoning | 02:28 |
| StsN800 | in pre-diablo we cannot rely on remount-rw either | 02:28 |
| lardman | looks good | 02:29 |
| lardman | will it power-save correctly? Or shall I switch off overnight> | 02:29 |
| johnx | switching off is suggested at this stage unless you want to test the PM | 02:30 |
| lardman | hmm, no term installed by default? | 02:30 |
| * FireFox sets up #ubuntu-n8x0 -- doesn't think it would be verry useful though | 02:30 | |
| * FireFox is still getting buged by a spacific user named mrglinux - because he automaticly assumes i'm an expert at firefox :P | 02:31 | |
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| StsN800 | lardman, yeah, 0.7 has it -- we had big trouble just before 0.6 | 02:31 |
| ds3 | so you must be the plane that clint eastwood flew ;) | 02:32 |
| lardman | ah, I forgot this was not the bleeding edge | 02:32 |
| lardman | any easy way to update to that? | 02:32 |
| StsN800 | lardman, ssh in over wifi and apt-get update, install osso-xterm | 02:32 |
| lardman | and any easy way to switch off, as the hw button doesn't work? | 02:33 |
| lardman | ok | 02:33 |
| StsN800 | battery pop | 02:33 |
| lardman | lol | 02:33 |
| lardman | ok | 02:33 |
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| StsN800 | im building snapshot of 0.7a atm | 02:33 |
| StsN800 | takes 4-5 hrs | 02:33 |
| StsN800 | then you can point installer at that url | 02:34 |
| lardman | hmm, can't remember my wpa2 password atm | 02:34 |
| lardman | battery pop it is | 02:34 |
| lardman | right, got to hit the sack, cu all tomorrow | 02:35 |
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| johnx | well, now that you've installed it you can use the 'image' version :) | 02:35 |
| * timeless frowns | 02:37 | |
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| timeless | anyone here have some bluetooth devices? | 02:40 |
| johnx | timeless, a couple. any kind specificly? | 02:41 |
| timeless | one that could export a readonly filesytem :) | 02:41 |
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| LinuxHack3r | So this default email client...is there some way I can make it not show up nokia n810 as an account? same for the removable memory card? | 02:41 |
| johnx | three that could | 02:41 |
| timeless | can you pair a tablet to it, and try using file manager to rename a file on that file system? | 02:42 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: You know what I'm talking about? | 02:43 |
| johnx | timeless, hmm...am I about to be testing strings in closed source Nokia stuffs? | 02:43 |
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| timeless | ye | 02:43 |
| johnx | LinuxHack3r, sorry, I can't really picture it | 02:43 |
| timeless | well. should i check the license? :) | 02:43 |
| johnx | timeless, possibly later. hacking on stuff in Mer right now. If it's open source though, I'd be more interested :) | 02:44 |
| * timeless nods | 02:44 | |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: On the right...under my email address as an account...it also lists two other accounts...so to say...one is "Nokia N810", the other is "Removable memory card". | 02:44 |
| johnx | ah, those are just the 'local storage' bits | 02:44 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: Exactly...can i make them bye bye? | 02:45 |
| johnx | not accounts so much as folders IIRC | 02:45 |
| LinuxHack3r | IIRC? | 02:45 |
| johnx | If I Recall Correctly | 02:45 |
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| timeless | ~iirc | 02:46 |
| infobot | hmm... iirc is "if I recall correctly" | 02:46 |
| johnx | anyways, I don't think you can get rid of them without editing the source...unless you can find something in options | 02:46 |
| wazd | It seems that Wiki doesn't support background images at all x( | 02:46 |
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| wazd | ~lmao | 02:46 |
| infobot | hmm... lmao is laughing my ass off, or see lol | 02:46 |
| timeless | what's he trying to do? | 02:46 |
| wazd | nice) | 02:46 |
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| timeless | bluetooth control panel lets you rename 'nokia n810' | 02:47 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: Claws looked cool...buy it seemed finicky and pickey. Perhaps if I spent enough time on it I could figure it out...but what is your opinion? | 02:47 |
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| timeless | and you can memory cards too | 02:48 |
| timeless | but usually those strings can be changed by changing a localization if nothing else | 02:48 |
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| johnx | LinuxHack3r, modest works fine for me. my suggestion: ignore those extra folders and you'll forget about them (as I have) | 02:49 |
| LinuxHack3r | alright. | 02:49 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: But what about contacts? I'd like to sync with plaxo...you familiar with it?// | 02:50 |
| johnx | never heard of it | 02:50 |
| johnx | can plaxo export contacts as a .vcf? | 02:50 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: Yes...but plaxo is more than that. | 02:51 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: http://www.plaxo.com/ | 02:51 |
| johnx | some kind of social networking thing? | 02:51 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: It appears as that's what it's become. But... | 02:51 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: It originally was a contact sync platform. For example...you add someone to your contacts in gmail...it is synced to thunderbird...and outlook....and certain smartphones...and all backwards and whatnot. | 02:52 |
| * timeless grumbles | 02:53 | |
| johnx | LinuxHack3r, can anyone implement it? | 02:53 |
| timeless | are tablets not valid bluetooth file servers? | 02:53 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: I believe there is an api or something. | 02:53 |
| LinuxHack3r | timeless: I sent a few files to my tablet from my computer...if that's what you mean? | 02:53 |
| timeless | no | 02:54 |
| johnx | LinuxHack3r, huh. that is somewhat interesting. for now try just having it export a .vcf and importing that | 02:54 |
| timeless | sending is different from being browsable | 02:54 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: How does one actually import? Just open the contact thing and open a vcf? | 02:54 |
| johnx | LinuxHack3r, I believe so. don't have it in front of me right now | 02:55 |
| johnx | Contacts on the N810 isn't that great sadly :/ | 02:55 |
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| LinuxHack3r | johnx: Well why not? | 02:55 |
| johnx | LinuxHack3r, it doesn't support that many fields | 02:56 |
| johnx | also, this might be of interest to you, WRT plaxo: http://osdir.com/ml/mail.roundcube.devel/2006-10/msg00013.html | 02:56 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: I'm wondering this http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/gpe-contacts/ | 02:56 |
| johnx | yup, that's pretty nice, but sadly doesn't integrate with the default applications like chat and email (as far as I remember) | 02:57 |
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| LinuxHack3r | johnx: Oh..so if I used the default thing..it'll integrate with email and chat....ok...what is chat...I've not clicked that button..I went straight to pidgin. | 02:58 |
| johnx | ah, then you probably don't care all that much so it might be best just to go for gpe-contacts :) | 02:58 |
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| LinuxHack3r | Does it do any sort of syncying? I don't have to use plaxo...if there is some other standard/protocal/service I can use...feel free to suggest it. | 02:59 |
| johnx | sorry, no good ideas :/ | 03:00 |
| * johnx reads about plaxo :) | 03:00 | |
| AndrewFBlack | \ | 03:02 |
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| * timeless frowns | 03:05 | |
| timeless | i'm pretty sure this string isn't reachable | 03:05 |
| timeless | anyone here have a bluetooth file share? | 03:05 |
| timeless | does file manager *ever* let you rename a file via bluetooth? | 03:05 |
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| sisto | LinuxHack3r: how's that quest for contacts going? | 03:23 |
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| * timeless sighs | 03:31 | |
| * timeless kicks chess | 03:31 | |
| * johnx mumbles about the real lack of modern PIM *anywhere* | 03:32 | |
| * jaem mumbles as well | 03:32 | |
| * timeless grumbles | 03:32 | |
| timeless | So... | 03:32 |
| timeless | If a chess file is 'readonly' | 03:32 |
| timeless | then game>save says: | 03:33 |
| ds3 | POSE | 03:33 |
| timeless | "Game is read-only" | 03:33 |
| timeless | last i checked, games themselves weren't things you wrote | 03:33 |
| timeless | (you wrote to files [saved game *files]) | 03:33 |
| johnx | ds3, I guess I should have qualified that :P | 03:33 |
| timeless | but if you try to save the file w/ the same name | 03:34 |
| timeless | using save as | 03:34 |
| timeless | you get | 03:34 |
| ds3 | integrating POSE would be nice... a third Linux fork of the legendary PalmOS ;) | 03:34 |
| timeless | Selected location is read-only | 03:34 |
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| johnx | ds3, heh...i dunno. relying on closed source apps that live in an emulated environment doesn't sit well with me | 03:35 |
| johnx | and integration would be ... impossible | 03:35 |
| ds3 | well, something on the level of the gvm stuff but more open | 03:35 |
| ds3 | there are nice PalmOS Apps | 03:36 |
| johnx | but the apps will never be open or able to integrate with the desktop | 03:36 |
| jaem | hmm | 03:36 |
| johnx | I won't be able to get at my contacts in pose/gvm from my email client | 03:36 |
| ds3 | you can... fake a hotsync with the pilotlink stuff | 03:37 |
| johnx | wow...that totally doesn't sound awkward and crufty :P | 03:37 |
| jaem | you forgot kludge | 03:37 |
| ds3 | the extensive library of legacy apps makes it worthwhile, IMO | 03:38 |
| timeless | ok. stupid question time | 03:38 |
| timeless | how does one make a file writable using file manager? :) | 03:38 |
| jaem | I take your point, but relying on legacy apps that much is a dead-end path | 03:38 |
| johnx | I'd be against it mainly for the reason that it removes motivation for people to do something better when there is a something 'good enough' | 03:38 |
| jaem | timeless: the default maemo one? you can't AFAIK | 03:38 |
| timeless | ... | 03:39 |
| johnx | my pet example being flash | 03:39 |
| ds3 | find a usable modern PIM then :P | 03:39 |
| timeless | jaem: is there a bug filed for that behavior? | 03:39 |
| * timeless tries to figure out whose brilliant idea that was | 03:39 | |
| ds3 | LookOut and its variants are completely unusable waste of time | 03:39 |
| jaem | timeless: I just don't think you can change permissions at all in the Maemo FM | 03:39 |
| jaem | probably because Joe User would mess something up | 03:39 |
| ds3 | we really need to start IGNORING Joe User or you get abominations like FF3 | 03:40 |
| jaem | well, to a point - but you need to find a balance | 03:40 |
| johnx | ds3, what's wrong with ff3? | 03:40 |
| ds3 | johnx: everything. it is unusable; the whole UI is messed up and broken | 03:40 |
| jaem | that's why I like KDE4 - it has ridiculous amounts of configuration and tweakability, but you don't need to mess with almost any of it to get going | 03:40 |
| johnx | ds3, back button, reload button, address bar. check. nope looks ok to me | 03:41 |
| jaem | I think what the KDE team has done in providing functionality without it getting in your way is exemplary | 03:41 |
| jaem | ds3? | 03:41 |
| ds3 | some of us use the right click menu | 03:41 |
| ds3 | they scrambled willy-nilly | 03:41 |
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| ds3 | then there is the random delays they put in so users can't shoot themselves | 03:42 |
| ds3 | it took a ton of plugins in make FF2 usable (compared to seamonkey); now FF3 just makes that worse | 03:42 |
| johnx | jaem, does kde4 make the options less invasive than kde3? | 03:42 |
| johnx | well, I guess I can call myself joe user then :) | 03:43 |
| ds3 | then there is the maintaine of a SECOND history file totally against your config options | 03:43 |
| jaem | johnx: I never really used KDE3 - I didn't like it - but I think they've done a better job of compromising between the two groups than a lot of software I've seen | 03:43 |
| jaem | and what do you mean by "invasive"? | 03:44 |
| ds3 | oh and then there is the completely messed up behavior for people who LIKE point to focus | 03:44 |
| ds3 | .... | 03:44 |
| johnx | jaem, for example the edit menu in a normal kde app is dozens of items long | 03:44 |
| jaem | I guess | 03:45 |
| jaem | I was referring more to the fact that it needs very little tweaking/setup to get going | 03:45 |
| jaem | if you don't like to fiddle with settings, it still works fine | 03:46 |
| jaem | but yeah, some of the dialogs are a bit scary | 03:46 |
| firefox | johnx: your avatar is one of the first results for a "ubuntu jaunty on nokia n800" google image search; http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=ubuntu+jaunty+on+Nokia+N800&btnG=Search+Images --lol | 03:46 |
| johnx | firefox, heh...wonder how that happened O_o (BTW, I never remember your nick now that you switched from b-man to firefox) | 03:46 |
| *** firefox is now known as b-man | 03:47 | |
| b-man | happy? :) | 03:47 |
| johnx | quite :) | 03:47 |
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| firefox | oh noez! | 03:47 |
| *** firefox is now known as jaem | 03:47 | |
| johnx | b-man, I'm more likely to actually notice you're around now | 03:47 |
| b-man | hehe, just remember that i'm usally firefox or b-man ;) | 03:49 |
| johnx | my brain is set to ignore firefox though :P | 03:49 |
| * b-man uses firefox to deal with nick-collisions and for fun ;) | 03:50 | |
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| b-man | johnx: lol | 03:50 |
| jaem | would the N810 be considered a cell phone, or a computer, for customs purposes? | 03:50 |
| johnx | you have nick collisions with a nick like b-man? or you mean instead of ghosting yourself? | 03:50 |
| johnx | jaem, a bar of soap or a whiskey flask | 03:50 |
| jaem | haha | 03:50 |
| b-man | gohsting myself | 03:50 |
| b-man | re; ghosting ;p | 03:51 |
| * b-man wonders why google has not noticed the screenshots i've been uploading for ubuntu jaunty :p | 03:53 | |
| b-man | (on several websites) | 03:54 |
| johnx | I actually don't see many screenshots on google images | 03:55 |
| johnx | for anything | 03:55 |
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| edrex | i have a 770 want to test mer. i have deb/ubuntu chops but no c h4kkor skeelz. perhaps I could help with documenting install process? | 03:57 |
| johnx | edrex, ah, that would be great! | 03:57 |
| edrex | i mean my 770 wants to test mer. it keeps making this wailing sound | 03:58 |
| edrex | not really | 03:58 |
| johnx | yeah, that might be time for an exorcism not an OS install O_o | 03:59 |
| edrex | is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.6 all the install documentatio? | 04:00 |
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| johnx | that's it for right now | 04:00 |
| johnx | anything you wanted to add would be great | 04:01 |
| edrex | i was so surprised to find mer today. It's really great to see everyone pull together | 04:01 |
| jaem | oh man... FedEx is gouging me | 04:01 |
| b-man | lol | 04:02 |
| jaem | $61 to ship it one way, for a device that only cost me $380 | 04:02 |
| edrex | anyone have more detail on the line "770 port has problems with sapwood..."? | 04:02 |
| johnx | yeah, things are really starting to come together. :) | 04:02 |
| jaem | I'm not seriously considering it right now, but, out of curiousity, is the "internal mmc" actually a socketed MMC card that one could feasibly replace by taking apart the N810? | 04:02 |
| johnx | edrex, ah. that's not accurate any more :) | 04:03 |
| edrex | like, how to fix | 04:03 |
| johnx | sapwood is fine now | 04:03 |
| edrex | do I need a more recent image than 0.6? | 04:03 |
| b-man | johnx: random, silly, and off-topic question, why did you crop your avatar to not display the "i don't know what your talking about, so here's a rabbit with a bun on his head" typo? | 04:03 |
| johnx | edrex, you can just apt-get update && apt-get upgrade once you install | 04:03 |
| edrex | johnx: thanks, I'll note that on wiki | 04:04 |
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| * b-man starts to create a diff of merinstaller_1.9.4-1mer1 for stskeeps | 04:05 | |
| johnx | b-man, I didn't want to distract people with something that makes sense | 04:05 |
| edrex | johnx: no x so using usb for network? | 04:05 |
| edrex | or is there cnetworkmanager? | 04:05 |
| b-man | johnx: lol | 04:06 |
| johnx | edrex, use usb network for now. I don't think wifi is working right yet on the 770 | 04:06 |
| johnx | r2d2rogers, did you ever get wifi working in mer? | 04:06 |
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| soap | stupid noob question - but what is the performance of mer currently and expected? In a nutshell, can it be as fast as maemo on N8x0 hardware or is there more overhead? | 04:09 |
| lopz | night | 04:09 |
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| r2d2rogers | johnx: no | 04:10 |
| johnx | soap, I think it should be roughly the same in general, and hopefully the browser will be a little faster compared to the default browser in maemo | 04:10 |
| edrex | r2d2rogers: have a plan? | 04:11 |
| r2d2rogers | johnx I've just installed 32bit Jaunty for the SDK | 04:12 |
| edrex | r2d2rogers: I know there was an open driver release for 8x0 a couple of months ago, but at the time it didn't seem like 770 support would be added | 04:12 |
| r2d2rogers | edrex: I have source and patches to compile | 04:13 |
| johnx | right now we're using the old Nokia driver on the n8x0 too | 04:13 |
| soap | johnx, so the main "advantage" as far as an end user is concerned is the continuation of support through userspace updates which Nokia will likely never get around to? | 04:14 |
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| edrex | johnx: right, is the problem that the 770 driver won't work with newer kernels? | 04:15 |
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| b-man | hi, AndrewFBlack | 04:16 |
| johnx | edrex, yeah | 04:16 |
| AndrewFBlack | Hey b-man | 04:16 |
| johnx | soap, well, the other advantage is having access to ubuntu's software library :) | 04:16 |
| AndrewFBlack | Whats up | 04:17 |
| soap | hmm, Clan Bomber. ;) | 04:17 |
| soap | johnx, last stupid question. I assume the goal is not to go full gnome? but to keep a more minimal WM and DE? | 04:18 |
| johnx | soap, the goal is to be maemo compatible :) | 04:18 |
| johnx | so, we'll stick with hildon-desktop and bring the libraries up the fremantle levels | 04:19 |
| johnx | *up to fremantle versions | 04:19 |
| b-man | creating a fuew sorce packages for merinstaller 1.9.4 | 04:19 |
| soap | tasty | 04:21 |
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| b-man | lol - http://www.millne.com/wp-content/uploads/15042008373-small.jpg | 04:27 |
| johnx | nice | 04:28 |
| edrex | r2d2rogers: you're looking at the work done by Andrew de Quincey? I'm reading the list archive now. | 04:28 |
| edrex | Kalle is very helpful. Thankfully lawyers can't understand piglatin | 04:30 |
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| * b-man thinks about installing the rotation kernel and give it a try in ubuntu/mer | 04:40 | |
| b-man | johnx: do you think rotation might crash xorg? | 04:42 |
| johnx | b-man, I think it probably will at this point, yes | 04:42 |
| b-man | hmm | 04:42 |
| johnx | xserver-xorg-video-omapfb probably nees to have rotation support added | 04:42 |
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| [TIWizard] | Eh... Is it my client, or is it quiet in here? | 06:22 |
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| jaem | it's quiet | 06:22 |
| [TIWizard] | Oh, good :) | 06:22 |
| [TIWizard] | I thought I broke something... | 06:22 |
| radic_ | hmm | 06:22 |
| radic_ | [TIWizard]: it's 5:22AM | 06:23 |
| [TIWizard] | Oh. 8:30 here. | 06:23 |
| [TIWizard] | At night* | 06:23 |
| johnx | I'm awake...I just wish I wasn't :) | 06:23 |
| radic_ | [TIWizard]: where are you? | 06:23 |
| [TIWizard] | Washington state, USA :D | 06:24 |
| r2d2rogers | edrex: Sorry I was in class, are you still about? | 06:24 |
| radic_ | [TIWizard]: you want to change withe me? | 06:24 |
| [TIWizard] | Err... | 06:25 |
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| radic_ | wow, my ordered digital camara was send yesterday... | 06:29 |
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| Pavlz | hello | 06:30 |
| radic_ | good morning Pavlz | 06:31 |
| Pavlz | anyone know how is possible | 06:31 |
| radic_ | no, cause you dosn't said waht should be possible | 06:32 |
| Pavlz | to remove the audio player, video player | 06:32 |
| Pavlz | and rss feed reader from nokia 770 | 06:32 |
| Pavlz | using the shell ? | 06:32 |
| Pavlz | i just moved .sounds .images .documents | 06:33 |
| Pavlz | .video | 06:33 |
| radic_ | dpkg -l | 06:34 |
| Pavlz | i got on the nokia 770 mplayer, kmplayer, ogg vorbis player | 06:34 |
| radic_ | and you see the installed packages | 06:34 |
| radic_ | then search for the righte ones and remove them withe apt-get or dpkg | 06:35 |
| Pavlz | xchat, maemo recorders, streamtuner | 06:35 |
| Pavlz | thanks | 06:36 |
| Pavlz | but i never moved with apt-get | 06:36 |
| Pavlz | i have only used it to install the packages | 06:37 |
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| radic_ | apt-get remove | 06:38 |
| johnx | removing parts of the media player might cause it to not boot | 06:39 |
| johnx | make sure you have backups | 06:39 |
| radic_ | johnx: is there a way to creat a rootfs-image? | 06:40 |
| johnx | cat /dev/mtdblock4 > file | 06:40 |
| johnx | maybe? | 06:40 |
| johnx | you'll probably want it mounted read-only when you do that though | 06:41 |
| radic_ | mount -o remount,ro / | 06:41 |
| radic_ | ? | 06:41 |
| johnx | sure, if that works | 06:41 |
| radic_ | I don't know | 06:41 |
| radic_ | I'll try it later... | 06:42 |
| johnx | well, I mean it should work, but if a file is open writeable then it probably won't | 06:42 |
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| radic_ | johnx: what's /dev/mtd1 for an device? | 06:43 |
| johnx | I think that's the 'raw' NAND device, first partition | 06:44 |
| radic_ | johnx: It contains the lock-code If set | 06:44 |
| johnx | ok. then why did you ask? :P | 06:45 |
| johnx | or is this a quiz? | 06:45 |
| radic_ | I wanted to know what kind of device it is | 06:45 |
| johnx | aaah, ok. I thought it was a quiz :) | 06:46 |
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| Pavlz | at the moment i did only a simple | 06:46 |
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| Pavlz | apt-get update | 06:47 |
| Pavlz | apt-get dist-upgrade | 06:47 |
| Pavlz | but i don't understand why it is not possible to | 06:48 |
| Pavlz | have a custom os on own nokia 770 | 06:48 |
| johnx | it is possible | 06:48 |
| johnx | look at deblet, or mer | 06:48 |
| Pavlz | how ? | 06:48 |
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| Pavlz | what are deblet or mer ? | 06:49 |
| ezadkiel_mB | can you sudo su in scratchbox? | 06:49 |
| Pavlz | where to search them ? | 06:49 |
| johnx | ~deblet | 06:50 |
| johnx | ~mer | 06:50 |
| johnx | infobot, ping | 06:50 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, deblet is http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet | 06:50 |
| infobot | methinks mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 06:50 |
| infobot | ~pong | 06:50 |
| FireFox | hehe | 06:50 |
| johnx | infobot, you're slow | 06:52 |
| infobot | i'll take that as a complement | 06:52 |
| FireFox | lol | 06:52 |
| radic_ | johnx: is it possible to port gnome for the N800? | 06:56 |
| johnx | it's in mer and deblet and b-man has a neat little howto for installing ubuntu | 06:57 |
| * FireFox uses gnome in ubuntu on his N800 | 06:57 | |
| johnx | it's way too heavy though | 06:57 |
| FireFox | not ifou use swap ;) | 06:57 |
| FireFox | re; if you | 06:57 |
| johnx | how much swap? :P | 06:57 |
| Pavlz | yes ok | 06:57 |
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| FireFox | 250-356mb ;p | 06:57 |
| Pavlz | i saw the deblet | 06:58 |
| johnx | mer is the continuation of deblet in many ways | 06:58 |
| Pavlz | but there was only screeshots for nokia 800 | 06:58 |
| Pavlz | nothing for nokia 770 | 06:58 |
| * FireFox starts to install vista-menu in ubuntu | 06:59 | |
| johnx | Pavlz, there are more than one screenshots of the 770 on the page I linked... | 06:59 |
| Pavlz | and then i got a little problem with the mmc | 07:00 |
| Pavlz | it doesn't enter more | 07:00 |
| Pavlz | one time the nokia 770 fells | 07:01 |
| johnx | ouch :( | 07:01 |
| Pavlz | and the slot eject the mmc | 07:02 |
| Pavlz | this means to go to the center of assistance | 07:02 |
| Pavlz | to solve a problem of a spring | 07:03 |
| johnx | does it work now? | 07:03 |
| Pavlz | yes | 07:03 |
| Pavlz | i am chatting with you now with the nokia 770 | 07:04 |
| johnx | ah good :) | 07:04 |
| johnx | but, does the mmc slot work now? | 07:04 |
| Pavlz | the mmc no | 07:05 |
| Pavlz | if i try to insert it espulses the mmc | 07:06 |
| johnx | ejects? | 07:06 |
| Pavlz | to go to the center of assistance means | 07:07 |
| Pavlz | to wait a month first i have back the nokia | 07:07 |
| Pavlz | it is an old problem | 07:07 |
| Pavlz | it was solved, but now is out of warranty | 07:08 |
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| Pavlz | with the nokia 800 and 810 where removed the shared memory ? | 07:10 |
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| johnx | shared memory? | 07:10 |
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| Pavlz | in the fs of nokia 770 there are many things that have not sense for example cdrom | 07:11 |
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| johnx | leftovers :) | 07:11 |
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| Pavlz | nokia 770 uses the shared memory | 07:11 |
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| johnx | infobot, what's happening? | 07:23 |
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| jaem | what the heck is happenin? | 07:29 |
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| jaem | -g | 07:29 |
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| LinuxCode | jaem, global reboot i think | 07:30 |
| jaem | ah | 07:30 |
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| bef0rd | aww | 07:33 |
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| wazd | Morning all | 08:00 |
| Pavlz | is there a quemu for nokia 770 ? | 08:00 |
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| Pavlz | good morning | 08:00 |
| Pavlz | i would to mount the openmoko on nokia 770 | 08:01 |
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| bef0rd | pom pom pom | 08:19 |
| monkeyiq | robtaylor: ping? | 08:23 |
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| timeless | hello cruel world | 09:25 |
| timeless | suppose you had the unfortunate luck of using gnomevfs | 09:25 |
| *** jaem is now known as cruel_world | 09:25 | |
| timeless | and you tried to move a folder to some location | 09:25 |
| cruel_world | hello timeless | 09:25 |
| timeless | at the end of the process | 09:25 |
| timeless | you receive error: | 09:25 |
| timeless | GNOME_VFS_ERROR_DIRECTORY_NOT_EMPTY: | 09:25 |
| liri | Stskeeps: any news on evolution? | 09:25 |
| timeless | what does that mean? :) | 09:26 |
| Mousey | yay sshfs! | 09:26 |
| * Mousey huggles | 09:26 | |
| timeless | cruel_world: why do you tease me sos? | 09:27 |
| cruel_world | because I'm cruel | 09:27 |
| *** cruel_world is now known as jaem | 09:27 | |
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| timeless | you're not helping | 09:29 |
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| jaem | lol - sorry | 09:29 |
| * timeless fires world | 09:29 | |
| * Mousey hello's world | 09:29 | |
| * jaem gets the BIG fire extinguisher | 09:29 | |
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| jaem | http://www.lolbuntu.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/mark-condit.jpg | 09:30 |
| timeless | jaem: use of 'flood' was banned after recreation of the world :) | 09:30 |
| Mousey | lolbuntu | 09:30 |
| Mousey | NO | 09:30 |
| jaem | hehe | 09:30 |
| Mousey | WAI | 09:30 |
| jaem | YA WAI | 09:30 |
| Mousey | aw | 09:31 |
| Mousey | not as funny as i was hoping | 09:31 |
| Mousey | like lolcode | 09:31 |
| jaem | lol | 09:31 |
| jaem | the top post on ICHC is amusing | 09:32 |
| Mousey | i thot lolbuntu would be like, written in memes, and firefox's homepage set to 4chan | 09:32 |
| jaem | haha | 09:33 |
| jaem | I CAN HAZ ROOT PASSWERD? | 09:33 |
| Mousey | and of course can has linux viruses | 09:33 |
| jaem | [sudo] | 09:33 |
| Mousey | dammit, beat me to the can has joke | 09:33 |
| jaem | haha | 09:33 |
| Mousey | and when you boot it, it's pedobear graphic, it reads OH HAI | 09:34 |
| jaem | ... | 09:34 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 09:34 |
| Mousey | ok ok.. lolbuntu coulda been a contender, now it's already ol | 09:34 |
| Mousey | d | 09:34 |
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| jaem | hmm... ICHC is working on an API | 09:36 |
| jaem | "EG: I’d make an application that does [WOW], if the Cheez Devs make an API that gives me [STUFF]." | 09:36 |
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| jaem | night everybody | 09:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | Hello ! | 09:37 |
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| Khertan_n810 | someone can help me and try mnotes 0.3.0 in extras-devel ? | 09:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | two users report it doesn t launch | 09:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | but i can t get any more info from they | 09:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | ping ? | 09:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ... seems disconnected again | 09:44 |
| LinuxCode | Khertan_n810, you are here | 09:45 |
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| Khertan_n810 | thx | 09:46 |
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| Khertan_n810 | bye | 09:56 |
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| * timeless considers | 10:18 | |
| timeless | should i translate this string as | 10:18 |
| timeless | "please file a bug explaining how you got to this message" | 10:18 |
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| timeless | # https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4047 | 10:19 |
| timeless | msgid "ckdg_ib_unable_to_move_to_current_location" | 10:19 |
| timeless | msgstr "Please file a bug explaining how you got to this message" | 10:19 |
| timeless | :ws | 10:19 |
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| * timeless sighs | 10:22 | |
| timeless | these people suck | 10:22 |
| timeless | Unable to do <generic action> != Unable to do some <generic actions> | 10:23 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Multi touch is now patented by Apple | 10:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | nice ! | 10:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | but this is not the hardware part which is patented now ... | 10:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | but also the fact to pinch to zoom ... | 10:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | this software patent really sucks ! | 10:29 |
| wazd | Haven't they patented "click" yet?) | 10:36 |
| timeless | i thought that was ebay | 10:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | one click is amazon | 10:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Click | 10:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | In response to the lawsuit, the Free Software Foundation urged a boycott of Amazon.com until September 2002.[11] | 10:39 |
| wazd | This is a bad sign actually cause when company starts to do that kind of ridiculous stuff - then it has nothing to show | 10:40 |
| Khertan_n810 | huhu ... we will not be able to bought anything if we boycott company each time they use stupid patent | 10:40 |
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| Jaffa_ | Morning, all | 10:47 |
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| wazd | Jaffa: Hey | 10:48 |
| wazd | Jaffa: I'm hacking around the sandbox :) | 10:48 |
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| * Jaffa goes to have a look... | 10:51 | |
| * Jaffa is getting really pissed off with Clay Thingy. Enough to put me off RRV anyway | 10:51 | |
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| L0cutus | buongiorno | 11:00 |
| wazd | L0cutus: hey there | 11:04 |
| wazd | Jaffa: can you help me a bit?) I can't trace weird bug ( | 11:07 |
| Jaffa | wazd: looking good. You've spelt "distribution" incorrectly, FWIW | 11:08 |
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| sandman2 | Will the n810 ever be getting 3D acceleration? | 11:08 |
| timeless | that question isn't very well phrased | 11:08 |
| Jaffa | sandman2: there's a `Drivers justification' wiki page | 11:08 |
| timeless | the n810 is shipped hardware. the hardware won't ever change | 11:08 |
| timeless | it'd be something else | 11:08 |
| sandman2 | timeless: The n810 has a 3D accelerator in it. | 11:08 |
| doc|home | it does? | 11:09 |
| doc|home | does the n800? | 11:09 |
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| sandman2 | Yes | 11:09 |
| wazd | Jaffa: oh. crap :) | 11:09 |
| sandman2 | They both do | 11:09 |
| sandman2 | But they lack drivers | 11:09 |
| timeless | jaffa: the text in powervr needs an editor | 11:09 |
| wazd | Jaffa: can you find missing right block of the table?) | 11:09 |
| timeless | (in that case a PowerVR too) | 11:09 |
| sandman2 | It's the PowerVR 3d accelerator. The SoC in the Nokia n810 is capable of running Quake3 @ like 50 FPS | 11:09 |
| timeless | implies the iphone has multiple accelerators | 11:09 |
| sandman2 | But it's not doing that, because of IP issues. | 11:10 |
| jaska | imaginary property | 11:10 |
| sandman2 | Nokia, afaik, refuses to get the drivers for it. And as a result, they are losing out on a very great deal of money | 11:10 |
| sandman2 | jaska: Exactly | 11:10 |
| sandman2 | I know many folks who would have already snagged an n810, years ago | 11:10 |
| sandman2 | If it weren't for the blast 3d acceleration problem | 11:10 |
| sandman2 | blasted* | 11:10 |
| wazd | sandman2: but you don't know what price does PowerVR license has :) | 11:11 |
| sandman2 | Well, why aren't we reverse engineering it? | 11:12 |
| timeless | reverse engineering what? | 11:12 |
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| *** Ciroipp has joined #maemo | 11:12 | |
| timeless | and who is we? | 11:12 |
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| timeless | the powervr specs are iirc available | 11:12 |
| wazd | sandman2: and again, SoC in the Nokia n810 isn't capable to run 800x480 static image :) | 11:12 |
| suihkulokki | timeless: I think "we" is sandman in this case ;) | 11:12 |
| sandman2 | timeless: We as in, all of us and myself, except for you. | 11:12 |
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| timeless | yeah, i'm pretty sure i'm not allowed to do it | 11:12 |
| timeless | since i've probably seen relevant bits | 11:13 |
| timeless | which would make me toxic to any such project :) | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | morning | 11:13 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: heya | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | sandman2: 3d acceleration discussion has been going on for ages | 11:13 |
| sandman2 | Stskeeps: I see. Well, it's a shame, really. | 11:14 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: screw 3d acceleration, help me :) | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | nokia/TI's giving out OSS free kernel drivers and free 3d drivers for omap3, next device | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | which is quite a development | 11:14 |
| sandman2 | There are so many folks who decided against the N810 for that one feature. | 11:14 |
| wazd | sandman2: power vr cant handle such large screen | 11:14 |
| sandman2 | Stskeeps: Well, that would be lovely. | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | the drivers nokia published are even feeding off on beagleboard etc | 11:14 |
| sandman2 | wazd: Right, I'm not arguing there's a good reason it's not enabled. | 11:14 |
| wazd | sandman2: it's just 640x480 max | 11:14 |
| Stskeeps | sandman2: but that is SGX, not MBX :/ | 11:14 |
| timeless | sandman2: this channel isn't a good way to tell nokia why people didn't buy their product | 11:14 |
| sandman2 | I'm just saying, I happen to _know_ that Nokia has lost loads of sales simply because of that 3D thing | 11:14 |
| timeless | if you're here, you're supposed to be someone who's using the software stack | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | obviously | 11:15 |
| sandman2 | Many people are under the impression that there's the hardware there, and that they are also paying for it, but that they are being prevented from using it. | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | sandman2: we know, we know, speaking to the choir | 11:15 |
| timeless | i happen to know nokia has lost many more sales because they didn't spend much on marketing | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | next device will have it | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:15 |
| sandman2 | timeless: Really? I didn't read that anywhere. | 11:15 |
| wazd | sandman2: If license cost 2 million euros - I think they've done right thing ) | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: help with what? | 11:15 |
| sandman2 | wazd: Why are they using a chip with retarded IP all over it like that? | 11:15 |
| timeless | for the record, i have no idea what the marketing budget is/was | 11:15 |
| Stskeeps | sandman2: because of it's magic low power usage :) | 11:16 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer | 11:16 |
| timeless | however, having traveled around, i can say with confidence that there wasn't much spent in the us | 11:16 |
| sandman2 | Stskeeps: When is the next nokia n-series coming out? | 11:16 |
| * timeless saw plenty of iphone ads and garmin touch ads | 11:16 | |
| wazd | sandman2: why birds fly?) | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | sandman2: summer-ish, noone really knows. life a thief in the night, probably | 11:16 |
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| timeless | wazd: black text on black background | 11:16 |
| timeless | 'uggh' | 11:16 |
| sandman2 | Blarg. | 11:16 |
| wazd | timeless: the bug is not the text | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i would use another font for artwork :P | 11:17 |
| suihkulokki | the thing most geeks completly fail to underestimate is the power of merketing | 11:17 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: can you find that lost right block?) | 11:17 |
| Macer | got root on my g1 | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: hah. :P | 11:17 |
| Jaffa | wazd: so the missing content block at the right hand side (the cutout) is a missing table column? | 11:17 |
| suihkulokki | products do not become successess/failures according to their spec sheet | 11:17 |
| Macer | =) | 11:17 |
| wazd | Jaffa: yep | 11:17 |
| Macer | kubuntu on my macbook doesnt let my wifi go into adhoc mode | 11:18 |
| sandman2 | I just didn't want to get stuck using the OpenPandora | 11:18 |
| Macer | i guess ill install vista on it haha | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | sandman2: what, the bank transfers pandora? :P | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | sandman2: anyhow, the rumours for RX-51 looks delicious. | 11:18 |
| Macer | i need adhoc to tether the g1 | 11:18 |
| Macer | maybe ill try my n800 when i get home | 11:19 |
| timeless | "Unable to open.\n" | 11:19 |
| timeless | "Folder not found." | 11:19 |
| Macer | that should be able to go adhoc | 11:19 |
| timeless | could someone suggest what that means? :) | 11:19 |
| Macer | sunday is when next mer release comes out sts? | 11:19 |
| Macer | i am anxious to use it | 11:19 |
| Jaffa | wazd: the third row only has two columns, not three. | 11:20 |
| Jaffa | wazd: I think I can fix it, if you want? | 11:20 |
| wazd | Jaffa: sure! | 11:21 |
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| wazd | Jaffa: and if you can align menu to the center - that would be awesome :) | 11:22 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: so is mer just like deblet? | 11:22 |
| Macer | or a whole new thing altogether? | 11:22 |
| Macer | i thought deblet was very promising | 11:22 |
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| timeless | hey | 11:24 |
| timeless | i need a tool | 11:24 |
| timeless | could someone write it for me? | 11:24 |
| timeless | i need to convert: | 11:24 |
| timeless | # UNUSED STRING | 11:24 |
| timeless | x | 11:24 |
| timeless | y | 11:24 |
| timeless | 11:24 | |
| RST38h | i? | 11:24 |
| timeless | into # ...\n#x\n#y\n | 11:25 |
| timeless | :) | 11:25 |
| timeless | (yeah, i'll write it eventually | 11:25 |
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| timeless | actually, it should probably also lose # lines before 'unused string' | 11:26 |
| oli | you want to put a # on the beggining of every line? ;] | 11:26 |
| timeless | only lines that don't begin w/ a #, and only in 'paragraphs that have # UNUSED STRING' | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: mer is more ubuntu than maemo and more maemo than ubuntu :P (.. or it will be) | 11:26 |
| timeless | i.e. stop #'ing at first blank line | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: pogrep looks nice | 11:26 |
| timeless | will it tell me if strings are used anywhere? :) | 11:27 |
| Macer | heh | 11:27 |
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| timeless | (mxr can tell me that) | 11:27 |
| timeless | if the answer is 16 files, then the answer is 'no' | 11:27 |
| Macer | well... i want to try it out | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | well it can also do inverse match :P | 11:27 |
| Macer | if i can tether it to my g1 using the adhoc connection then it would be worth it | 11:28 |
| Macer | how is the hw support going? | 11:28 |
| timeless | sts: so... --search=notes ? | 11:28 |
| Macer | if it is maemoish.. can i use my su8w? | 11:28 |
| timeless | no | 11:28 |
| timeless | i can't figure out how to make it do something remotely useful | 11:29 |
| timeless | http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/pogrep | 11:29 |
| timeless | oh | 11:29 |
| timeless | it's the -e bit? | 11:29 |
| Macer | i think when i get home im going to try vista on my macbook | 11:30 |
| timeless | pogrep --search=notes -e 'UNUSED STRING' | 11:30 |
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| Macer | i need to adhoc this fucking macbook | 11:30 |
| oli | adhoc wlan? | 11:31 |
| wazd | hmmm | 11:32 |
| RST38h | moo wazd | 11:32 |
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| Khertan_n810 | re | 11:32 |
| wazd | RST38h: hey) Check it out: http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/netbook/50234/#comment_1321057 | 11:32 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I wonder what does he mean with "New Maemo Nokia's" :) | 11:33 |
| * timeless grumbles | 11:34 | |
| timeless | the best thing for this stuff would be to delete it all | 11:34 |
| timeless | anyone know if any open source code is stupid enough to use nokia localization files/ | 11:34 |
| timeless | (excluding mer) | 11:34 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless: well, we only get the engineering english | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | with !!!'s and everything | 11:39 |
| timeless | suihkulokki, or someone else | 11:39 |
| timeless | could you please explain: | 11:40 |
| timeless | org.freedesktop.DBus.GLib.UnmappedError.BackgroundManagerErrorQuark.Code2 | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: star trek fans? | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:40 |
| timeless | for people curious, this is from http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/search?string=CORRUPTED_TEXT | 11:40 |
| timeless | or there abouts | 11:41 |
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| timeless | i'll settle for "what in the world is a BackgroundManagerErrorQuark and how can i get one?" | 11:42 |
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| suihkulokki | no idea ;) | 11:43 |
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| *** florian_kc is now known as florian | 11:48 | |
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| timeless | hey | 11:55 |
| timeless | is osso-notes open source? :) | 11:55 |
| pupnik | morning | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: don't think so | 11:58 |
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| * timeless ponders | 12:02 | |
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| timeless | we're at about bug 4050 | 12:02 |
| timeless | should i try to file bug 5000 before fosdem? :) | 12:02 |
| timeless | (and yes, i'm pretty sure i could do it if i tried) | 12:03 |
| * timeless chuckles | 12:05 | |
| timeless | this should be fun | 12:05 |
| timeless | anyone want to try to break notes? :) | 12:05 |
| timeless | oh, sorry, not notes, sketch | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | that isn't particularly difficult to do :P | 12:06 |
| timeless | yeah, but you're not trying :) | 12:07 |
| * Stskeeps is a big fan of xournal or maemopad+ :P | 12:07 | |
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| timeless | i think that if you have no disk space and 'background kill' sketch | 12:08 |
| timeless | you should get an 'amusing' error message | 12:08 |
| lcuk | "timeless: get your hand out of my ass" ? | 12:09 |
| lcuk | mornin :D | 12:10 |
| sandman2 | How much longer will a VIA C7 last versus an OMAP 2420, on the same battery? | 12:10 |
| timeless | sandman2: i think 99% of the people you'll find deal w/ software | 12:10 |
| timeless | not hardware | 12:10 |
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| lcuk | timeless, you are goin to fosdem arent you | 12:11 |
| timeless | yep | 12:11 |
| lcuk | oooh its a weekend, i didnt realise | 12:12 |
| timeless | yes, always | 12:12 |
| lcuk | heh not used to it | 12:13 |
| lcuk | the only 2 ive been two were weekdays | 12:13 |
| timeless | it isn't in my calendar, but i bought tickets and made arrangements for where to stay | 12:13 |
| timeless | those wouldn't have been fosdem... faiu | 12:13 |
| lcuk | no :) | 12:13 |
| lcuk | mind you, this time last year i had only just got my device | 12:14 |
| pupnik | and still no divorce | 12:14 |
| timeless | wow | 12:14 |
| lcuk | i think i had barely gotten past pythonn | 12:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | <timeless> anyone want to try to break notes? :) <<< try mnotes 0.3.0-3 | 12:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 12:14 |
| timeless | khertan: hrm | 12:15 |
| Khertan_n810 | hi :) | 12:15 |
| lcuk | timeless, wow at pupnik, or me | 12:15 |
| lcuk | hiya pupnik btw | 12:15 |
| timeless | you | 12:15 |
| lcuk | and khertan | 12:15 |
| timeless | khertan: is that in garage? | 12:15 |
| timeless | it wasn't in garage the last time i slurped it | 12:16 |
| lcuk | :) | 12:16 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum... euh ... in garage ? the source is in svn ... and in maemo extras-devel | 12:16 |
| timeless | which svn repo? | 12:17 |
| Khertan_n810 | https://garage.maemo.org/svn/mnotes | 12:17 |
| timeless | that's garage | 12:17 |
| lcuk | i think i would be more inclined to come to fosdem if i could get to a nice level. unfortunately im behind schedule | 12:17 |
| * lcuk will have to check (and scroll) his calendar | 12:17 | |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 12:17 |
| timeless | hrm, most be relatively new | 12:18 |
| timeless | i only have 661 projects in garage | 12:18 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep :) | 12:18 |
| timeless | and that isn't among them | 12:18 |
| Khertan_n810 | i commit it this morning | 12:18 |
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| timeless | any idea what project number garage is at? | 12:19 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep i know also that not all my project is in garage yet | 12:19 |
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| Khertan_n810 | mnotes ? #835 | 12:20 |
| * lcuk is pleased only 1 of his projects is in garage. | 12:20 | |
| lcuk | my mind would asplode if i put all of them there and had to manage them | 12:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | héhé | 12:21 |
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| Khertan_n810 | same things for me ... | 12:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | but i ve test a script to automatically update to svn :) | 12:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | my different project | 12:21 |
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| lcuk | Khertan_n810, pm :) | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | sandman2: omap2 can last for several days without a charge | 12:25 |
| timeless | khertan: well, my script defaulted to a ceiling of 800 | 12:25 |
| timeless | so it wasn't going to automatically find 835 :) | 12:25 |
| * timeless waits as it runs through them | 12:25 | |
| * lcuk vanishes again. | 12:26 | |
| * lcuk ctrl-c's timelesses sccript before he goes | 12:26 | |
| timeless | lcuk: too late :) | 12:27 |
| timeless | timeless@swift:/home/svn/world-all/garage% ps|wc -l | 12:27 |
| timeless | 84 | 12:27 |
| timeless | those are all attacking garage svn :) | 12:27 |
| X-Fade | timeless: top - 12:28:08 up 138 days, 5:02, 1 user, load average: 9.38, 8.32, 4.93 | 12:28 |
| timeless | Total: 180 processes, 375 lwps, load averages: 0.73, 0.47, 0.28 | 12:28 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Yes, but that was garage ;) | 12:28 |
| timeless | what the heck are you doing to that box? | 12:28 |
| timeless | oh | 12:28 |
| timeless | ok, so that's *me* :) | 12:28 |
| * timeless is so proud of swift | 12:28 | |
| timeless | down to 48, 47 | 12:29 |
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| tekojo | timeless: so swift is back? | 12:29 |
| timeless | well, kinda. working on it | 12:30 |
| timeless | it's answering limited questions internally | 12:30 |
| timeless | i need to figure out what i was supposed to do to index the sdk | 12:30 |
| timeless | i slurped the sdk .deb's on friday or so | 12:30 |
| timeless | so i can point it at the local copy (if i can find that!) | 12:30 |
| tekojo | ok, sounds pretty good :-) | 12:30 |
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| * timeless grumbles | 12:31 | |
| timeless | i think i need to be root or something | 12:31 |
| * Stskeeps notes to himself zip -r0D isn't the same as -r9D | 12:31 | |
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| * Jucato shyly waves.. new n810 user | 12:34 | |
| timeless | welcome, have you upgraded to the latest os? | 12:35 |
| Jucato | yep | 12:35 |
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| Jucato | 5.2008.43-7? | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | correct | 12:35 |
| * timeless shrugs | 12:35 | |
| timeless | it sounded like a good question ;-) | 12:36 |
| Jucato | thanks :) | 12:36 |
| Jucato | I had a bit of guidance in the beginning from a fellow n810 user :) | 12:36 |
| timeless | timeless@swift:/home/svn/world-all/garage% jobs|wc -l | 12:37 |
| timeless | 5 | 12:37 |
| timeless | the garage attack should be nearly over :) | 12:37 |
| * timeless kicks khertan | 12:37 | |
| timeless | khertan: could i possibly interest you in a saner file system structure? | 12:37 |
| Jucato | I have a quick question (although I already have a feeling that the answer is "no"...): I know I can use Yahoo!Messenger using Pidgin. but is there a way to integrate my yahoo account/contacts with maemo? | 12:37 |
| timeless | one which doesn't litter the root of your tree w/ binary files? | 12:38 |
| timeless | jucato: google talk contacts are imported in maemo | 12:38 |
| timeless | so the theoretical answer should be 'yes' | 12:38 |
| timeless | from a 'what can you do out of the box', i wouldn't know | 12:39 |
| * timeless happily doesn't use ymail | 12:39 | |
| Jucato | hm... | 12:39 |
| Jucato | I don't use the mail either :) | 12:39 |
| Jucato | but the messenger is the standard in this country (unfortunately...) | 12:39 |
| * timeless is too old for yim | 12:39 | |
| timeless | aim :) | 12:39 |
| timeless | (and icq) | 12:39 |
| Passeli | i am trying to get Scratchbox Remote Shell to work, and keep getting following error: | 12:40 |
| X-Fade | Jucato: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ | 12:40 |
| Passeli | sbrsh server: Can't change root directory to: /var/sbrshd/username@192.168.2.14/sshfs-target (No such file or directory) | 12:40 |
| Jucato | X-Fade: thanks! I'll take a look into it | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | Jucato: Using telepathy-haze, you should be able to do just that. | 12:41 |
| Jucato | awesome :) | 12:41 |
| Jucato | oh.. red pill mode... sounds ominous :) | 12:42 |
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| timeless | andre__/et al, i'd like to create an mnotes component in bugs:extras | 12:49 |
| timeless | Khertan_n810: =) | 12:49 |
| timeless | this way i can file bugs against khertan :) | 12:49 |
| * timeless really needs to write a script for that | 12:50 | |
| andre__ | timeless, just do it (creating the component, but the script part also sounds nice) ;-) | 12:50 |
| timeless | andre__: btw, are there any discontinued products that *will* see development? :) | 12:50 |
| timeless | (read teh classification description for x-graveyard) | 12:51 |
| andre__ | probably not. but redundancy might be helpful for the average eye ;-) | 12:52 |
| timeless | better punctuation would be better | 12:52 |
| timeless | also | 12:52 |
| timeless | suppose there's a nokia project which isn't maemo official | 12:52 |
| timeless | where does it live? :) | 12:52 |
| timeless | (assume it's in extras) | 12:53 |
| andre__ | shrug. i can think about that when it exists | 12:53 |
| andre__ | i wonder whether internet tablet video converter belongs to that category | 12:55 |
| timeless | yes | 12:55 |
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| timeless | ok, i'm in a giving mood | 12:57 |
| timeless | anyone want to name 3-5 projects that are vaguely active in garage which could use products? | 12:57 |
| timeless | speak now, or wait a month | 12:57 |
| keesj | could use products? | 13:00 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: have you made any changes? I switched it to using a table full stop, rather than the wiki syntax. Still got some bugs but they should be easy to track down | 13:00 |
| timeless | keesj: https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Extras | 13:01 |
| timeless | if you know of a garage thing that could use repesentation, you have 20mins | 13:01 |
| Jaffa | wazd: might be better to switch to a full CSS-based, rather than tables | 13:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | re | 13:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | timeless: sorry was busy | 13:05 |
| timeless | khertan: enjoy, now you have your own product | 13:05 |
| timeless | khertan: you should visit https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email | 13:05 |
| timeless | in users to watch: | 13:06 |
| timeless | add the qa contacts from your product | 13:06 |
| timeless | https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=mNotes | 13:06 |
| timeless | ok? | 13:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | what is the prob ? | 13:06 |
| timeless | if you don't do that, you won't find out about bugs people report :) | 13:07 |
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| timeless | jaffa: ok, i'm attacking garage again | 13:10 |
| timeless | Total: 1570 processes, 1765 lwps, load averages: 32.10, 7.56, 2.64 | 13:10 |
| *** Khertan has joined #maemo | 13:10 | |
| Khertan | re | 13:10 |
| Khertan | sorry ... i come back with a better client | 13:11 |
| Khertan | at least not a web one | 13:11 |
| Khertan | *** Notice -- This gateway is temporarily blocked due to abuse. Apologies for the inconvenience! | 13:11 |
| Khertan | timeless : could you repeat after : "<timeless> in users to watch:" | 13:11 |
| Khertan | ? | 13:11 |
| Khertan | :) | 13:11 |
| timeless | add the qa contacts from your product | 13:12 |
| timeless | https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=mNotes | 13:12 |
| timeless | ok? | 13:12 |
| timeless | if you don't do that, you won't find out about bugs people report :) | 13:12 |
| Khertan | hum | 13:13 |
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| Khertan_n810 | notes component ? | 13:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | ping ? | 13:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | ping ! | 13:14 |
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| Khertan | lol | 13:14 |
| timeless | um | 13:14 |
| Khertan | stupid web client | 13:14 |
| timeless | is that lag? | 13:14 |
| Khertan | yep | 13:14 |
| timeless | nice | 13:14 |
| Khertan | yep | 13:14 |
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| timeless | 376 or so updates running atm :) | 13:17 |
| timeless | a couple flies dropping every few moments | 13:17 |
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| timeless | hrm, swift is too busy to talk to me :( | 13:19 |
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| * timeless frowns | 13:22 | |
| timeless | ok | 13:22 |
| timeless | you're in a file picker | 13:22 |
| timeless | and the folder you're looking at disappeared | 13:22 |
| timeless | the file picker wants to tell you this | 13:22 |
| timeless | what should it say? | 13:22 |
| aquat1x | `omgwtfdisappearingfolders!' | 13:23 |
| aquat1x | (sorry) | 13:23 |
| timeless | it's ok | 13:23 |
| timeless | we have similar text in the product | 13:23 |
| timeless | (diablo) | 13:23 |
| aquat1x | haha | 13:23 |
| aquat1x | `The selected folder does not exist anymore' ? | 13:23 |
| *** frade has quit IRC | 13:24 | |
| timeless | that sounds vaguely useful | 13:24 |
| timeless | the current text iirc | 13:24 |
| timeless | is something like: | 13:24 |
| timeless | folder not found. | 13:24 |
| timeless | device switched to another folder. | 13:24 |
| timeless | -- | 13:24 |
| timeless | don't ask me what a device is | 13:24 |
| timeless | i'd have to check the manual | 13:24 |
| aquat1x | ah | 13:24 |
| timeless | (to everyone else, if i have to look it up, that means it's an awful choice of words) | 13:25 |
| aquat1x | well, the device you're holding | 13:25 |
| aquat1x | `The selected folder does not exist anymore, switched to another folder' ? | 13:25 |
| aquat1x | `The selected folder does not exist anymore, switched to another folder instead' ? | 13:25 |
| aquat1x | but that's long | 13:25 |
| timeless | when was the last time your ipod/iphone talked about itself as a 'device'? :) | 13:25 |
| * Stskeeps 's gf calls his tablet "your device" | 13:26 | |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:26 |
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| timeless | affectionately or as a curse? | 13:26 |
| aquat1x | :) | 13:26 |
| timeless | "your [bleeping] device is distracting you from me" | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | affectionately or neutral | 13:26 |
| timeless | "how dare you spend so much time with your device" | 13:26 |
| Khertan | timeless i don't understand how to change the email on bug | 13:26 |
| timeless | khertan: err | 13:27 |
| aquat1x | `My device is better than yours' | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: it usually helps in arguments she has various addictions to tv series | 13:27 |
| benson | I refer to most of my devices as devices. | 13:27 |
| benson | Tablets, laptops, phones, etc. | 13:27 |
| timeless | khertan: what are you trying to do? | 13:27 |
| timeless | did you visit user prefs? | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | you know, one thing, why the f*k doesn't /sys have device nodes in it? | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, it has the references, but actual device nodes could be useful | 13:28 |
| timeless | "Current folder disappeared.\n" | 13:28 |
| timeless | "Switching to another folder." | 13:28 |
| timeless | ? | 13:28 |
| timeless | or Switched | 13:28 |
| timeless | "Selected another folder." | 13:28 |
| timeless | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hildon-application-manager-2.1.16/src/util.cc?mark=2778-2779#2760 | 13:30 |
| timeless | 2778 annoy_user (dgettext ("hildon-common-strings", | 13:30 |
| timeless | 2779 "sfil_ni_cannot_open_no_connection"), | 13:30 |
| timeless | 2780 fail_copy_cont, NULL); | 13:30 |
| Khertan | 2. note that mNotes won't work well w/ Mer | 13:30 |
| Khertan | because it assumes /home/user. which I believe Mer wants to get away from | 13:30 |
| Khertan | you should get the user's home directory some other way | 13:30 |
| Khertan | hum ... yep ... all my apps work like that | 13:30 |
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| lardman | morning all | 13:31 |
| Khertan | timeless ... why do you want to downgrade ? | 13:31 |
| timeless | just to annoy you :) | 13:31 |
| timeless | i don't intend to install the software atm | 13:32 |
| Khertan | lol but yep ... this could be a problem | 13:32 |
| timeless | but it's fun to read code and point out problems | 13:32 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: ping | 13:32 |
| Khertan | 'your db update code is cute' thx ... but i found it not really good | 13:32 |
| Khertan | Also note that you have the same sort of code in mnotes_framework as make, this | 13:32 |
| Khertan | probably indicates you should have a module :) | 13:32 |
| Khertan | true too :) | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: pong, snapshot in 5 | 13:34 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: good stuff :) | 13:34 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: I was really going to ask if you'd thought of an online repo, then various people can submit updates packages, etc., in the same way extras works | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: yeah, we're going to have that more visible when we move on to maemo.org (when i write an email outlining what is needed..) | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: and a small bunch of people have upload rights | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | already, so | 13:36 |
| lardman | yep | 13:36 |
| lardman | ok | 13:36 |
| Khertan | timeless : maybe it s fun ... but it s still help :) | 13:36 |
| timeless | lardma: what is this? | 13:36 |
| timeless | khertan: =) | 13:36 |
| lardman | timeless: Mer | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: re-run installer, when it asks for mirror, use URL=http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-armel-n800-image-snap4.tar.gz | 13:36 |
| Khertan | timeless: but one question why created a product in bugs.maemo.org | 13:36 |
| Khertan | it should be in garage no ? | 13:36 |
| timeless | no | 13:36 |
| timeless | garage is dead for bug tracking | 13:36 |
| lcuk | lardman, havent you just recreated the maemo repository | 13:36 |
| Khertan | ah | 13:36 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: Will do this arvo, had to swap cards back so I can listen to mp3s at work | 13:37 |
| timeless | if you have a thing in garage, please kill it | 13:37 |
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| Khertan | :) all my other products have bug tracking in garage | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: and you don't have to re-run refresh_bootmenu.d, just re-run installer :) | 13:37 |
| Khertan | :) | 13:37 |
| timeless | i'm going to slowly whack the rest of garage's bug tracker | 13:37 |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: can I download and use file:/// syntax for that url? | 13:37 |
| timeless | khertan: poke me in a few hours, and i'll fix that | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: whatever wget takes | 13:37 |
| lardman | lcuk: pretty much, but for the community stuff | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: you can also mkfs.ext3 the partition yourself, tar pzxvf the file and passwd root | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | same effect | 13:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:38 |
| lardman | lcuk: I was thinking of using the same infrastructure actually, just add a new dir | 13:38 |
| timeless | anyway, gotta go | 13:38 |
| Khertan | i should be tired i can browse the product list in bugzilla | 13:38 |
| lcuk | yeah lardman, os2007 os2008 mer fremantle | 13:38 |
| lcuk | *m5 | 13:38 |
| lardman | yep | 13:38 |
| lardman | but I'm just a meddling outsider atm, making annoying suggestions ;) | 13:39 |
| * lcuk eats a big blt | 13:39 | |
| lardman | though as I'm trying to setup, I'd like it to be easy for people to get into it, etc | 13:39 |
| lcuk | lardman :) ease of use is *primary* to uptake | 13:40 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: that image is n800, any major diff between that an n810? | 13:40 |
| lcuk | the simpler it is to get involved the better :) | 13:40 |
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| lardman | +1 | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: mistake on my part, it's n8x0 | 13:40 |
| lardman | cool | 13:40 |
| RST38h | moo, lardman-lcuk-Khertan-Sts-all | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | moo RST38h | 13:40 |
| lardman | moo too | 13:40 |
| lcuk | oink! | 13:40 |
| lardman | mmm, bacon | 13:40 |
| lcuk | (well i couldnt use anything else could i :D) | 13:41 |
| * lcuk might have a pig as mascot | 13:41 | |
| lcuk | i walked through a number of scenarios and ideas last night | 13:42 |
| Stskeeps | pink floyd base? | 13:42 |
| * lcuk is pleased with his conclusions, i just wish i could code fast enough to realize them in time for fosdem | 13:42 | |
| lardman | you going? | 13:43 |
| lcuk | no, i wont have anything to show | 13:43 |
| lcuk | its a shame, i wanted to meet ssvb and timeless is gonna be there (i could grab a 770) and quim and stuff :) | 13:43 |
| *** ezadkiel_mB has quit IRC | 13:43 | |
| * Khertan hate bugzilla | 13:43 | |
| lcuk | but i would prefer to have the new stuff to show and tell :) | 13:44 |
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| lcuk | maybe though i can discuss the backend library | 13:44 |
| lcuk | thats feasible | 13:44 |
| * lcuk curses not having time | 13:45 | |
| * lcuk wishes he was timeless | 13:45 | |
| Stskeeps | are you completely sure about that? | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:45 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 13:45 | |
| lcuk | yeah you are probably right, i would spend my days trying to break stuff (best way to be actually, assume failure by default is best way to get secure apps) | 13:46 |
| lcuk | timeless, did you used to use a magnifying glass on bugs when you were younger (or even yesterday?) | 13:46 |
| Khertan | how can i change the Default QA Contact for a product ? | 13:46 |
| * Khertan is going to eat | 13:48 | |
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| rmrfchik | hmm, what is OMAP3 device for which maemo5 is targeted? | 14:01 |
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| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: unknown device as of yet (RX-51) | 14:01 |
| rmrfchik | sad, n810 is not target for maemo :( | 14:02 |
| Stskeeps | that's what Mer is for :P | 14:02 |
| rmrfchik | maemo5 i mean | 14:02 |
| Stskeeps | bringing fremantle components to n810 | 14:02 |
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| rmrfchik | will smth be losed? | 14:02 |
| LinuxHack3r | So...the items in the "menu"...some I like...some I don't. I don't really want some of them...is there a way to remove them? | 14:03 |
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| LinuxHack3r | rmrfchik: Yes...Will Smith lost? | 14:06 |
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| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: good question :P what do you use? | 14:09 |
| LinuxHack3r | Stskeeps: Do you know how to remove menu entries? Is it even possible? | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | LinuxHack3r: there's a control panel thing | 14:12 |
| LinuxHack3r | Stskeeps: ALL I can do Is move things around....cannot remove them? | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | LinuxHack3r: good question | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | brb | 14:13 |
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| johnx | LinuxHack3r: only way is to remove the app or delete its .desktop entry | 14:18 |
| * Jucato waves at Sho_ | 14:19 | |
| Stskeeps | morning johnx | 14:19 |
| johnx | hey | 14:19 |
| johnx | is there anything besides ssh-server where we want the configure stage to run on the user's tabler? | 14:20 |
| Khertan | or move it to an unexisting category | 14:20 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: can't think of any atm | 14:20 |
| Khertan | but with a SuP3rH4x0r name you should know how to do that ? | 14:20 |
| * Sho_ waves at Jucato | 14:20 | |
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| LinuxHack3r | johnx: Where is the .desktop entry? I can just move it to a "backup" location, can't i? | 14:23 |
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| johnx | LinuxHack3r: /usr/share/applications/hildon | 14:23 |
| johnx | yeah,making a backup is a good idea | 14:23 |
| johnx | dont remember if you need to do something to regen the menu after...hmmm | 14:24 |
| johnx | Stskeeps: also, i was thinking about some kind of way to handle machine features | 14:24 |
| LinuxHack3r | perhaps an on and off will work ;) | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: well, imager can add config if need be | 14:24 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps: I suppose yeah...but what about a script that needs to act differently at runtime (thinking about mouse pointer on non-touch screen) | 14:26 |
| johnx | or h-i-m on devices with keyboards | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 14:27 |
| johnx | dur...I guess HAL would be the right way. i never think of tthings like that til i type my question | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | lshal? | 14:27 |
| johnx | right :) | 14:27 |
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| Stskeeps | scan for touchscreen maybe :P | 14:28 |
| johnx | yeah. i just remebered hal but totally forgot about lshal | 14:28 |
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| lcuk | afternoon crashanddie :) | 14:31 |
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| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 14:33 |
| wazd | Back :) | 14:34 |
| johnx | hey wazd :) | 14:34 |
| wazd | Jaffa: I really don't get where's the bug :( I checked the code 10000 times - it looks fine for me :( | 14:35 |
| lardman | wazd: I know that feeling | 14:35 |
| wazd | And why the hell Wiki does not support background image for table or div | 14:36 |
| wazd | It's almost lmposible to do scalable design without htat function | 14:36 |
| Jaffa | wazd: Because 9i'd allow spamming or whatever | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | or goatse! | 14:36 |
| timelE61i | . | 14:37 |
| Jaffa | wazd: it's now using a table and has a different bug ;-) | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, does extras accept packages which has non-build dependancies that cannot be satisfied? | 14:38 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Nope. | 14:39 |
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| X-Fade | Those need to be uploaded first. | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: mmk | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: so if my final package depends on something, it checks if it's possible to satisfy? | 14:39 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: It checks build-depends and dependencies.. | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | k | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | well then, need to put bootmenu in extras :) | 14:40 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: At least in extras-devel. ;) | 14:41 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, -devel :P | 14:41 |
| * Stskeeps wonders how much havoc that will cause | 14:41 | |
| X-Fade | Well, as long as you don't promote it to Extras yet, you should be safe. | 14:41 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps: then we just need to push mer as an ssu and ... :D | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 14:43 |
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| rmrfchik | sry, was afk | 14:46 |
| wazd | whoa, something has changed :) | 14:46 |
| rmrfchik | Stskeeps: I mean, will any new good features be lost? | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: well, depends on what we can make work and what nokia allows us to distribute | 14:47 |
| rmrfchik | for now I use mapper, fbreader, music player | 14:47 |
| Stskeeps | first two should be fine, media player or music player? | 14:47 |
| johnx | gah, pouring rain here. :/ that's what i get for not leaving work early | 14:49 |
| rmrfchik | Stskeeps: canola2 | 14:49 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: it'll hopefully be OSS soon | 14:49 |
| johnx | yeah, really looking forward to an open source canola | 14:50 |
| wazd | who's doing something with my sandbox?) | 14:50 |
| rmrfchik | builtin media player is totally useless for me. it cant' plays music from card. | 14:51 |
| rmrfchik | and I eager to see keepassx on my n810 | 14:51 |
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| Stskeeps | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/keepassx/0.3.4-1/+build/787025 | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | looks quite big with QT though | 14:56 |
| timeless | khertan? | 14:57 |
| timeless | you only need to fill yourself in as the assignee | 14:57 |
| timeless | you should really leave the qa contact in its default value | 14:57 |
| Jaffa | wazd: I suggest you throw away uthe images for the corners and uise -moz-border-radisu, -webkit-border-radius and border-radius; then you've got 1 image for the logo, one image for each of the buttons | 14:58 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: can't play music from card? What do you mean? | 14:59 |
| wazd | Jaffa: does this stuff works with IE? | 15:00 |
| wazd | Yahoo! http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | why the black background btw? | 15:02 |
| johnx | so, any bets on how long a native build of qt4.5 will take? I'll be trying a build of it on my n800 later | 15:02 |
| wazd | That was tough experience)) | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: why? :P | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | isn't it in ports ubuntu? :P | 15:02 |
| RST38h | johnx: the LHC will get there first, most likely | 15:03 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: cause black text on black background is cool xD | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: yeah but mixed with the rest of wiki page.. | 15:03 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps: i thought qt for maemo had some tweaks to auto-hildonize stuff | 15:03 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: true | 15:03 |
| wazd | who cares bout rest of wiki page :) | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: i know why nit-kernelcompat fails to boot | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: lack of mtdblock0 etc in /dev | 15:04 |
| wazd | And this stuff actually isn't finished yet | 15:04 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, wtf | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: remember this time its before udev | 15:04 |
| johnx | anyways, headed home :) back in an hour or so | 15:04 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, hrm, I'll try and get a /dev dump or somewhat | 15:05 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: or i can just MAKEDEV as part of imaging process | 15:05 |
| qwerty12 | worksforme :) | 15:05 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: which mtdblock is it we use? | 15:14 |
| qwerty12 | mtdblock4 | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | k | 15:14 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: no, in IE6/7 you wouldn't get curved corners. Don't tell me you're one of those designers where it has top be pixel perfect for everyone? Remember that alpha-transparent PNGs need to be used anyway, so that it doesn't look really crap when the new maemo.org look comes in | 15:20 |
| wazd | Jaffa: it was a real surprise that maemo.org doesn't have IE png patches enabled btw :) | 15:22 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: can you grab me major,minor of the mtdblock devices? | 15:23 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, http://pastebin.com/d316f858f | 15:24 |
| Stskeeps | ta | 15:24 |
| wazd | Jaffa: there are more sophisticated problems right now :) Like "how to align menu to the center" :) | 15:25 |
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| rmrfchik | lardman: it doesn't see my mp3 files. | 15:26 |
| rmrfchik | lardman: and it hasn't UI to open files from file system | 15:27 |
| Jaffa | wazd: specify the width of the containing div/ul exactly and then use margin-left and margin-right: auto. | 15:27 |
| Jaffa | dneary: I've just responded to Jarmo's email. Something to add to the agenda at 1400? | 15:27 |
| wazd | Jaffa: oh) | 15:27 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: works for me | 15:27 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: No, it is a topic for -developers. | 15:27 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: menu > clip > open ?? | 15:28 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Just catching up with email, haven't read it yet | 15:28 |
| rmrfchik | lardman: it is for open one clip, isn't? | 15:28 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: We really need to see quite some interest to even warrant the effort of implementing that ;) | 15:28 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Isn't Jarmo in charge of maemo.nokia.com? | 15:28 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: This testing is hardcore testing, which I haven't seen in _any_ community project yet ;) | 15:29 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: yes that is, but the media crawler should just add them to its list | 15:29 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: eject the card then re-insert and it should do it's job | 15:29 |
| rmrfchik | it doesn't | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: No, I didn't mean the testing one (although that was a surprise to me, must've missed some earlier emails) | 15:29 |
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| lardman | rmrfchik: you didn't disable it did you? | 15:29 |
| rmrfchik | and what is it -- media crawler? where can I find it? | 15:29 |
| test_016 | 1 2 3 testing testing | 15:29 |
| lardman | built-in | 15:29 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: No, he's working in the DP team. He's responsible for SDK and documentation IIRC. | 15:29 |
| rmrfchik | dunno. how to check? | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: I mean his -community one about maemo.org having to deal with developers who want to get reference documentation and/or SDKs | 15:29 |
| test_016 | is this on? | 15:29 |
| lardman | if you don't know then it should be ok | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | test_016: sortof | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Ah, that's less of a panic then :-) | 15:29 |
| test_016 | ahhh yes, i see jaffa and lardman | 15:29 |
| test_016 | and you stskeeps | 15:30 |
| wazd | Jaffa: whoa, works, thanks!) | 15:30 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I'm all for setting this up if there is an actual need for it. | 15:30 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: But I seriously doubt that anybody will use it.. | 15:30 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: not ideal, it would be good to have a manual re-scan option, etc, but that's it for the time being | 15:30 |
| test_016 | ok, done testing now. | 15:31 |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Not saying it isn't a cool thing, but ... :) | 15:31 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: add bugs/enhancement requests and hopefully it'll get better next time round :) | 15:31 |
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| Stskeeps | OT, any of you know a wi-fi PCI card that works as AP under linux? | 15:31 |
| test_509 | i was meant to be done, does anyone knowwhere penguinbait got this chat thingy from? | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | chathostplus seems like a reasonable guess.. | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | but not sure | 15:32 |
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| qwerty12 | "VERSION CGI:IRC 0.5.9 (2006/06/06) - http://cgiirc.sf.net/" | 15:32 |
| test_509 | it doesnt say that from this end, i can see it from my house though | 15:32 |
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| test_509 | http://tablethacker.com/wp/?page_id=30&lang=en-us cool though, it might solve the problems people were haviggn with connecting | 15:33 |
| test_509 | bbl (its lcuk btw) | 15:33 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk? who's that? | 15:33 |
| lcuk | (it is i, le clerc) | 15:33 |
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| * qwerty12 was expecting a southerner comment :P | 15:34 | |
| lcuk | lol | 15:34 |
| lardman | check eee's not reaaallly a German | 15:34 |
| lcuk | france is southern | 15:34 |
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| rmrfchik | lardman: I wait for maemo5 ;) | 15:34 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: really, stick in some bug reports if things annoy you, that was Nokia will know | 15:34 |
| lardman | s/was/way | 15:34 |
| lcuk | +1 | 15:35 |
| lcuk | if they dont know theres a problem theres no way it can be prioritized to be fixed | 15:35 |
| lcuk | same with anything | 15:35 |
| * lcuk goes again | 15:35 | |
| lardman | toilet? | 15:36 |
| lardman | avoid the curry | 15:36 |
| lardman | ;p | 15:36 |
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| lcuk | it wont be me that comes back in if someone else clicks the link to the chathost, im just seeing if its viable for the meeting | 15:36 |
| dneary | Hi | 15:36 |
| lcuk | ewwwwwww - actually | 15:36 |
| lcuk | bacon curry! | 15:36 |
| * lardman reduces the level of humour to the standard scatalogical base | 15:36 | |
| lardman | hey Dave | 15:37 |
| lcuk | hi dneary :) | 15:37 |
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| dneary | hi lardman, lcuk | 15:38 |
| wazd | dneary: hey there | 15:40 |
| rmrfchik | and sure, the most thing I want to see in maemo -- LIGHT SPEED! indeed, on my good old palm m505 (33Mhz!) address book opens in moments. | 15:40 |
| rmrfchik | on n810 it all take ages :( | 15:40 |
| lardman | it's probably pre-loaded on the Palm | 15:41 |
| wazd | rmrfchik: It's always on on Plam | 15:41 |
| rmrfchik | no, different architecture | 15:41 |
| glass | technically everything is already loaded on palm, no? | 15:41 |
| rmrfchik | glass: indeed | 15:41 |
| lardman | really? RAM disk? | 15:41 |
| lardman | or XIP? | 15:41 |
| rmrfchik | no disk at all | 15:41 |
| rmrfchik | XIP | 15:41 |
| lardman | right | 15:41 |
| glass | xip + some battery backed memory | 15:41 |
| glass | iirc | 15:41 |
| lardman | well that's not going to happen with a JFFS2 fs | 15:41 |
| rmrfchik | anyway, on wince IE runs instantly | 15:41 |
| dneary | hi wazd | 15:42 |
| lardman | well it comes down to two things, pre-loading and XIP abilities | 15:42 |
| rmrfchik | wince uses classic approach, but it runs much faster. | 15:42 |
| wazd | rmrfchik: that's IE's only function xD | 15:42 |
| qwerty12 | Pocket IE sucks more than MicroB | 15:42 |
| lardman | yeah, but we're just talking about loading speed | 15:42 |
| qwerty12 | So, no wonder it starts quickly. | 15:42 |
| lardman | lol | 15:43 |
| wazd | Pocket IE is the most horrible browser :) | 15:43 |
| lcuk | rmrfchik, :) liqbase opens everything nice and fast | 15:43 |
| rmrfchik | dude, when I run browser on pocket device I just want to quick pick some usefull info (train schedule, wikipedia, mail). Not full featured browsing | 15:43 |
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| wazd | rmrfchik: It's bad even for that | 15:43 |
| rmrfchik | lcuk: liqbase?? what's it? | 15:43 |
| lcuk | an idea :) | 15:43 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: yeah I get that feeling too | 15:44 |
| lcuk | a very rough hack of an idea, but its taking shape nicely | 15:44 |
| rmrfchik | wazd: it worked for me many times. | 15:44 |
| lcuk | anyway, bbl again | 15:44 |
| dneary | Jaffa: On the test tools? | 15:45 |
| rmrfchik | when I changed palm to wince, I escape using PIM (on WinCE it sucks). When I moved to n810 I almost left to browse internet (loading takes ages). | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: did you try webkit engine yet? | 15:45 |
| dneary | I've heard about this before, but haven't really understood what is in question | 15:45 |
| dneary | And what I can do to help | 15:45 |
| rmrfchik | Stskeeps: not yet. I read on forum, but didn't tried it yet. | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | rmrfchik: you should try. it's like getting a new tablet (it still has glitches, but it's nice) | 15:46 |
| rmrfchik | rly? hmm. will try. | 15:46 |
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| rmrfchik | btw, I read some flash file system allows XIP? | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 15:50 |
| Jaffa | dneary: no, the website | 15:52 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: can i prod you about some quick and dirty artwork? | 15:52 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_file_systems#Features | 15:52 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: agreed, I can't see a whole lot of automated tests being done | 15:53 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I'd rather invest the resources in the brainstorm thingie.. | 15:53 |
| dneary | Jaffa: OK, see it now | 15:53 |
| dneary | I'd have replied "Isn't your usecase 0 just restating my usecase 2?" | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: But if there is a a big demand for it, sure let's do it :) | 15:54 |
| lardman | rmrfchik: AXFS | 15:55 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: sure | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: Mer wallpaper, this http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gnome-dialog-error.svg , text: "Incompatible bootmenu used to boot Mer. Rebooting in 15 seconds" | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | 800x480 | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | (or a similar icon of your own choosing) | 15:56 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: k | 16:01 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: thanks in advance :) | 16:02 |
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| lardman | hmm, Eye and Brain massager: http://www.saverstore.com/productinfo/Product.aspx?product_id=20014118&rstrat=12758 | 16:09 |
| lardman | not sure I want my eyes poked by vibrating plastic prongs, let alone my brain! | 16:10 |
| qwerty12 | Eye massager? /me shivers | 16:10 |
| lardman | lol, the features bit is even better | 16:11 |
| RST38h | lardman: Does it come out on the other side? | 16:11 |
| lardman | Ideal for users of computers, long distance drivers, equipment operators and students and office users alike | 16:11 |
| lardman | note the long distance drivers :) | 16:11 |
| lardman | RST38h: I don't want to imagine it really! :_ | 16:11 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: yeah, your rounded corner images won't look great on a different (non-white) wiki theme :-( | 16:14 |
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| * qwerty12 curses hildon file chooser for wanting OK response instead of ACCEPT | 16:18 | |
| lardman | We have NAND for the main flash? | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | think so | 16:21 |
| lardman | ok, just reading about XIP and why NAND is not suitable like NOR is | 16:21 |
| lardman | what's that thing that Windows XP does called - caching executable data? | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | preloading probably | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | or prelinking | 16:23 |
| * Stskeeps wonders what people were smoking when they decides 802.11n would require 3-4 antennas | 16:23 | |
| lardman | yeah, I think it does prelinking then caches the code to a file | 16:24 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, it's called prefetch iirc in windows | 16:24 |
| lardman | thanks | 16:24 |
| wazd | Jaffa: well, it's easy to make reverse | 16:24 |
| lardman | here's a linky for anyone interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefetcher | 16:25 |
| qwerty12 | "This feature is covered by US patent 6,633,968.[3]" hmm... | 16:25 |
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| lardman | yeah | 16:25 |
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| lardman | Linux version: http://code.google.com/p/prefetch/ | 16:28 |
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| lardman | quite interesting presentation there http://prefetch.googlecode.com/files/gsoc-prefetching-presentation.pdf | 16:34 |
| RST38h | lardman: The simplest thing would be to keep track of open()s and prefetch those files into disk cache on the next bootup | 16:37 |
| lardman | mmap? | 16:38 |
| RST38h | naah, you do not want to keep them open, just want them in disk cache | 16:38 |
| lardman | I meant what if they are mmap'ed? | 16:38 |
| RST38h | But I am not sure this is all very important though | 16:38 |
| lardman | equally, they may be opened and not read | 16:38 |
| RST38h | lardman: if they are mmapped, nobody will be able to close them | 16:38 |
| RST38h | sorry, nobody will be able to open them for writing AND they will never get flushed from memory | 16:39 |
| lardman | I don't mean that the solution is to mmap them, but you need to see which files are mmaped | 16:39 |
| RST38h | It really seems easier to me to just never reboot your Linux. Put it into hibernation instead | 16:39 |
| lardman | well not just for boot time improvement, also for app startup (which is what we started talking about a while back) | 16:40 |
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| RST38h | well, if it is coming up form hibernation then you either have your apps running already OR they are cached after the last run | 16:40 |
| lardman | yeah but not every app is running all the time | 16:41 |
| lardman | and if they have been pushed out of the cache... | 16:41 |
| RST38h | that is totally normal | 16:41 |
| lardman | does the hibernation code save the cache? | 16:41 |
| RST38h | that is what caching algorithm is for | 16:41 |
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| RST38h | it should theoretically save the whole memory snapshot | 16:41 |
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| lardman | well I could run OO lots, but then load Octave with a really big problem, which will push my OO code out of the cache, even though I often use it | 16:42 |
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| RST38h | lardman: this is normal behaviour | 16:42 |
| lardman | where push out of the cache is caused by Octave needing to use the memory, not Octave code replacing the OO code in the cache | 16:42 |
| lardman | normal yes, ideal no | 16:43 |
| RST38h | lardman: You have limited amount of memory, can't preload them both there | 16:43 |
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| lardman | the other option is to fork from a launcher which is has already loaded shared libs | 16:45 |
| lardman | this happens on Maemo now doesn't it? | 16:45 |
| lardman | and likewise for the browser | 16:45 |
| AndrewFBlack | Hello | 16:45 |
| lardman | hello AndrewFBlack | 16:45 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/maemo-launcher/0.21_new_hildon/README ? | 16:45 |
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| qwerty12 | hi AndrewFBlack | 16:45 |
| RST38h | lardman: Before you start preloading things, you have to accept that you can't preload everything. | 16:46 |
| lardman | indeed | 16:46 |
| lardman | but with the cache it doesn't preload, it just keeps stuff loaded | 16:46 |
| RST38h | lardman; Once this notion is out of the way, note that disk cache replacement algorithm used in Linux is already doing decent job on keeping most often used pages in memory | 16:46 |
| AndrewFBlack | got a question from all you smart people out there is there a way to make an Personal Menu or Personal Launcher entry to lanch a file from a memory card? The file i want to open is a html file also is there any way to do an entry to open a web address? | 16:47 |
| RST38h | lardman; So, if you preserve disk cache on hibernation, you should be ok | 16:47 |
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| qwerty12 | AndrewFBlack, easy way is "browser --url=<location to file>" | 16:47 |
| RST38h | Andrew: Can't execute stuff from memory cards | 16:47 |
| lardman | RST38h: how large is the disk cache? | 16:47 |
| RST38h | Andrew: But can use it as data input , as qwerty says | 16:48 |
| RST38h | lardman: Normally, your entire unused memory | 16:48 |
| RST38h | lardman: At least this is how it works in FreeBSD | 16:48 |
| AndrewFBlack | qwerty12, you put that in as Command to execute? | 16:48 |
| lardman | ah yes, the cache is disk cache only, not executable code | 16:48 |
| qwerty12 | AndrewFBlack, yes | 16:48 |
| RST38h | lardman: Yes, we are talking about OS-managed disk page cache here | 16:49 |
| AndrewFBlack | that would work for file and for web address then | 16:49 |
| qwerty12 | If file = equals html or somesuch, yes. And yes, it accepts web address too. | 16:49 |
| lardman | RST38h: I was thinking of Windows which caches executable code too | 16:49 |
| AndrewFBlack | you know simple things like these would be great to add to wiki for End Users | 16:50 |
| lardman | AndrewFBlack: get adding then :) | 16:50 |
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| AndrewFBlack | Thanks qwerty12 got it working also lardman I think I will add it | 16:52 |
| lardman | AndrewFBlack: the big issue I always find is wondering where to add it, or if to make a new page, and in which case where, etc | 16:53 |
| AndrewFBlack | well we could make a page just for it or we could start a page for Personal Menu tips and tricks there are a few other things that could go on that page like the thing last week about making a volume up and down using pmenu/plauncher | 16:54 |
| RST38h | lardman: Linux should also cache executable code | 16:56 |
| RST38h | lardman: it is no different from anything else, same disk pages | 16:56 |
| lardman | except there's an extra layer of work inbetween | 16:57 |
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| RST38h | lardman: not really | 16:59 |
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| RST38h | lardman: I *think* you mean strictly preloading certain executables and libraries on startup? | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | cache isn't saved on hibernation | 16:59 |
| lcuk | serious question about the browser: wtf takes so long to make it start. its a blank page with no media to preload or anything | 17:00 |
| lardman | RST38h: the prefetcher loads certain preloads certain sections of files I think | 17:00 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Then saving it may essentially solve the problem. Or, rather, you can save the page list and slowly load it up after you get out of hibernation | 17:00 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: cool, I thought I'd read that somewhere | 17:00 |
| RST38h | lardman: certain sections of files = pages :) | 17:01 |
| lardman | RST38h: still won't speed up app load times | 17:01 |
| RST38h | lardman: It will | 17:01 |
| lardman | RST38h: yes, but we're talking about a couple of different approaches here | 17:01 |
| RST38h | lardman: Consider this: | 17:01 |
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| lcuk | does the brainfuck for start times come from gtk or from the app itself? | 17:01 |
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| lardman | RST38h: it will only speed up the 2nd load and those afterwards | 17:01 |
| RST38h | lardman: which is perfectly fine if you never reboot | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK | Hibernation roughly works something like this: evict all pages you can, push the rest out to swap until all the ram is free | 17:02 |
| lardman | and even then, only if the cache hasn't been purged due to the memory being required | 17:02 |
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| RST38h | lardman: well, you have limited memory, this will affect both approaches | 17:02 |
| lcuk | an x11 native app starts quickly. liqbase starts quickly. what makes gtk so slow | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK | Yep, the biggest limit is the relatively small ram. | 17:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: ldd <executable> | 17:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: and you will see | 17:03 |
| lcuk | RST38h, nonesense - try it with an x11 app | 17:03 |
| lcuk | its quick | 17:03 |
| lardman | RST38h: agreed, if I want to start my second app as soon as memory is again free for the cache, but not if there's a gap - in that case I could reaload the cache | 17:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Do try ldd on an x11 app and on a gtk app | 17:03 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, strace it :-) | 17:03 |
| lcuk | sorry :$ i thought ldd was just the thing to run it | 17:03 |
| lcuk | not my job Shadow__X :) my apps start quickly tyvm | 17:03 |
| ShadowJK | firefox was famous for doing some 50,000 open() and even more malloc() on startup | 17:04 |
| lcuk | i think in part its the translation | 17:04 |
| lcuk | you have to read and identify and replace the strings from every single component in app | 17:04 |
| lcuk | and then theres the theming | 17:05 |
| lcuk | (im thinking in a different way to just trying to cache it) | 17:05 |
| ShadowJK | gtk is slow at starting up even if everything is already in ram. Though you lot probably have fast computers so you don't notice it, except maybe on tablet | 17:05 |
| lcuk | yes Shadowjk | 17:05 |
| suihkulokki | lcuk: those pretty gtk themes - try starting a gtk app without any theming | 17:05 |
| lcuk | so make it fast | 17:06 |
| lcuk | suihkulokki, im not saying get rid of them | 17:06 |
| lcuk | im saying make those operations faster | 17:06 |
| lcuk | windowing applications are not slow on this device | 17:06 |
| ShadowJK | gtk also does other fun things. Sometimes it quickly draws gray over the entire window, then slowly fills it black, and then quickly gray, and then starts drawing the widgets, sometimes multiple times :-) | 17:06 |
| lcuk | its the gubbins that goes ontop that makes them feel slow | 17:06 |
| lardman | ShadowJK: why on Earth? | 17:07 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, yeah i keep seeing multiple things overlaying my overlay | 17:07 |
| lcuk | thats the render algo lardman | 17:07 |
| lcuk | and the way it interacts with x11 and stuff | 17:07 |
| ShadowJK | lardman, well you don't notice on a fast system, you don't even notice it on tablet most of the time | 17:07 |
| lardman | yeah, but why do that? | 17:07 |
| ShadowJK | I'd call it bug | 17:08 |
| lardman | ok | 17:08 |
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| ShadowJK | Try running remote X over a 1mbit link and you can see all the waste :-) | 17:08 |
| lcuk | cos of the laered way widgets work and update themselves, very tricky to remove in best case without compromising lots of things | 17:08 |
| ShadowJK | Amusingly KDE seems faster when actual drawing is expensive, like over remote X | 17:08 |
| lcuk | :) ShadowJK if every developer worked on such a system x11 would be pristine | 17:09 |
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| * RST38h ran X11 over a modem | 17:09 | |
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| RST38h | Routinely. | 17:09 |
| ShadowJK | gtk would be painful | 17:09 |
| * lcuk tries to work on slowest feasible system possible to ensure when real users get software it works nicely | 17:09 | |
| johnx | it's the latency that kills, not the bandwidth | 17:10 |
| lcuk | johnx, the .net IDE in windows suffers from lag :D | 17:10 |
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| ShadowJK | I heard QT caches things to reduce the amount of roundtrips to X :-) | 17:11 |
| johnx | nx would help too...but I never managed to ever get it working right | 17:11 |
| lcuk | but then again it works on 32bit super bitmaps continuously so sends over 2x as much data :) | 17:12 |
| lcuk | swings and roundabouts | 17:12 |
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| johnx | also, I imagine lcuk's apps would be bandwidth limited in X11 :) | 17:13 |
| RST38h | ~burn .NET IDE | 17:13 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over .NET IDE, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 17:13 | |
| lcuk | i know why x11 exists and what it can do, but since 99% of users and time its not required why do we suffer | 17:13 |
| lcuk | yeah johnx i wholeheartedly agree | 17:13 |
| johnx | lcuk, everyone says that at some point | 17:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Why do you suffer, again? | 17:13 |
| lcuk | cos its slow | 17:13 |
| * RST38h does not get what is wrong with X11 | 17:13 | |
| aquatix | because we can! | 17:13 |
| lcuk | suboptimal | 17:14 |
| RST38h | Not slow, works like a charm | 17:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Like throwing bitmaps around, ain't you? =) | 17:14 |
| johnx | sorry lcuk. I'm with RST38h here :) | 17:14 |
| lcuk | am i only asking this because of hte omapfb/blizzard? | 17:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Then use MITSHM. | 17:14 |
| RST38h | lcuk: My guess is that you are asking it because you play with bitmaps while X11 was primarily designed for vectored graphics and text | 17:15 |
| johnx | some people still claim X is slow...and it is slower than writing right on the framebuffer...but it repeat after me: "Abstraction is important" | 17:15 |
| lcuk | RST38h, throwing bitmaps aint a problem - networking game engines do exist and work well - wow, unreal etc all do rich graphically intensive stuff over a network | 17:15 |
| RST38h | lcuk: they do not really | 17:15 |
| lcuk | RST38h, vectors are core to my system | 17:15 |
| dob | garage returns html when I try to download files :/ | 17:15 |
| RST38h | lcuk: All that rich graphical stuff is present locally. | 17:15 |
| johnx | RST38h, I did use Quake3 rendered remotely over 100Mb/s ethernet :) | 17:16 |
| lcuk | yes i know | 17:16 |
| johnx | indirect glx rocks | 17:16 |
| lcuk | thats the point, the server tells it where to put it | 17:16 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Umghrhr | 17:16 |
| johnx | RST38h, was about as fast as VGBA on a tablet... | 17:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: If vectors are the core, you can probably use X11 and it won't be slower than your own algorithms | 17:16 |
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| ShadowJK | Heh. The point I was originally trying to make was that X itself isn't slow, it's the apps that are slow :-) As can be seen by all the pointless stuff they do, which becomes clearly visible once you slow down the computer or the app<->x11 connection enough | 17:17 |
| lcuk | +1 | 17:17 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, i am mixing up bad graphics experience on the device with x11 itself | 17:17 |
| * lcuk apologises | 17:17 | |
| RST38h | Well, if we are talking FireFox or OpenOffice, I do not think they are slow because of the X11 stuff at all | 17:17 |
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| johnx | lcuk, you might still find X11 slow in some cases...definitely slower than the framebuffer | 17:18 |
| ShadowJK | just strace firefox or ooo startup... the results will make you cry | 17:18 |
| RST38h | Latest @@&Q#%^%#@ FireFox is slow because it is managing memory aggresively, I think | 17:18 |
| Macer | damn | 17:18 |
| johnx | and there are valid complaints against it, but it allows such nice tricks, even when used locally | 17:18 |
| Macer | my n800 can connect to my G1 | 17:18 |
| RST38h | That is how Mozilla team "addressed" large memory footprint problem | 17:18 |
| Macer | and tether over wifi | 17:18 |
| Macer | but the damn kubuntu can not | 17:18 |
| lcuk | johnx, i overloaded the x buffer on numerous occasions and sent half an update over before i was ready | 17:18 |
| Macer | don't know what it is.. it all seems like it should work | 17:19 |
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| lcuk | Macer, STOP. make sure you get a condom, g1 has cooties | 17:19 |
| RST38h | johnx: Once he starts drawing polygons and lines in that framebuffer, X11 will beat him | 17:19 |
| lcuk | no rst | 17:19 |
| lcuk | it doesnt | 17:19 |
| lcuk | look at what i just said | 17:19 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, well, I think they provided their own malloc() implementation because calling malloc() a million times was too slow. This doesn't quite solve the issue though :-) | 17:19 |
| Macer | lcuk: :) no bt dun with a g1 | 17:20 |
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| Macer | have to use the wifi adhoc method | 17:20 |
| Macer | but i sure wish this damn kubuntu would connect to it | 17:20 |
| johnx | Macer, oh nice. they found a new way to get root on it? | 17:20 |
| lcuk | can we install mer on g1 yet? | 17:20 |
| ShadowJK | Doesn't ad-hoc use stupid amounts of energy? | 17:21 |
| johnx | lcuk, once you get one shipped to me or Stskeeps :P | 17:21 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Sooner or later they still have to go to the crapp^H^H^HAllocMem() | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | mmap() or brk() | 17:21 |
| StsN801 | not paying a 25 plus 500 dollar jailbreak fee | 17:21 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: And I get random <1s hangups. | 17:21 |
| lcuk | johnx :) | 17:21 |
| * lcuk paid ~£400 to jailbreak his pda | 17:22 | |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, oh those used to be 1 minute hangups with my old computer and firefox2 :-) | 17:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: So, you are drawing polygons faster than X11 own implementation? | 17:22 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Weirdly, FF2 never cause me such problems, but it leaked like crazy so I had to restart it every 4 hours or so | 17:22 |
| lcuk | RST38h, i use shm and essentially talk to the omapfb which sends data directly to the blizzard lcd driver | 17:22 |
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| lcuk | yes | 17:22 |
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| johnx | RST38h, well it's more like he shifted the burden to deal with a stupid ball n' chain named 'blizzard' | 17:23 |
| RST38h | johnx: Ah | 17:23 |
| moontiger | hey lcuk ... guys :) | 17:23 |
| lcuk | and doubly so because im sending less data | 17:23 |
| lcuk | i can have a fullscreen updated and be onto the next one whilst x11 is half done | 17:23 |
| RST38h | yea, guess so | 17:23 |
| moontiger | anybody know why the rotation support isnt working after the last SSU ? | 17:23 |
| lcuk | hiya moontiger :) haven't seen you in a while | 17:23 |
| ShadowJK | "drawing polygons" isn't the same as drawing a polygon in a bitmap and sending that to X :) | 17:23 |
| RST38h | moon: need a new kernel | 17:24 |
| moontiger | lcuk, been moving to madrid :) | 17:24 |
| RST38h | and a few other things | 17:24 |
| lcuk | ooooooh swanky | 17:24 |
| moontiger | RST38h, ahhhhhhhhh ok | 17:24 |
| lcuk | you will have to jaiku more often and we will know | 17:24 |
| moontiger | hehe well i dont know about swanky but its freaking cold | 17:24 |
| johnx | lcuk, that's the ticket right there :) if you could use the same visual you are now and still draw your lines with X11 primitives you'd probably see nice performance | 17:24 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, i can do the same with bitmaps as well :) | 17:24 |
| moontiger | jaiku is going bye byes no? i thought google pulled the plug? | 17:24 |
| RST38h | pulled life support | 17:25 |
| lcuk | johnx, no it would still pop the x11 buffers and not get through a whole screen in one go | 17:25 |
| Jaffa | No, they're stopping further development; but are open sourcing the code | 17:25 |
| RST38h | not necessarily killing it outright | 17:25 |
| moontiger | ahhhhhhhhh i'll re-install it then :) | 17:25 |
| lcuk | moontiger, psssst its a website :P | 17:25 |
| johnx | lcuk, aaah, because you're doing tricks to deal with the ungodly long time it takes to refresh the screen? | 17:25 |
| moontiger | lcuk, hehe really? is that one of those intertube things? | 17:25 |
| moontiger | :)~ | 17:25 |
| lcuk | jaiku.com ;) | 17:25 |
| moontiger | i was using maiku on my tablet | 17:26 |
| lcuk | no johnx, because im drawing so many bloody lines - i might be able to find the x11 way of handling it but its not optimal at present | 17:26 |
| johnx | huh | 17:26 |
| lcuk | drawing lots of lines each with a different color | 17:27 |
| lcuk | there is only a limited amount of x11 buffer space before it pushes them to be drawn | 17:27 |
| lcuk | so it draws half | 17:27 |
| lcuk | then finishes drawing | 17:27 |
| lcuk | instead of a single frame update | 17:27 |
| lcuk | it comes in waves | 17:27 |
| johnx | ah, which just wouldn't matter on most systems | 17:27 |
| lcuk | yeah | 17:27 |
| johnx | iiinteresting | 17:28 |
| lcuk | its ugly | 17:28 |
| johnx | this would explain why my zaurus feels faster sometimes | 17:28 |
| lcuk | possibly | 17:28 |
| johnx | even though every frame drawn has to be rotated on the CPU :> | 17:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: X11 has specific APIs for drawing lots of lines :) | 17:28 |
| lcuk | yes can it change the color of each line as its being drawn as i have to? | 17:28 |
| * lcuk did check such things | 17:29 | |
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| ShadowJK | RST38h, last time I ran oprofile, on otherwise idle system, firefox's XUL shit came up in the top of the list. I don't really know much about what it is or what it's good for, but when I see threads where people want XUL on tablet I just go "huh", thinking that if there's no XUL there, why would they want to add it, seeing it tops CPU usage on my desktop PC :) | 17:29 |
| lcuk | ie line starts in one color and changes along each point | 17:29 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Do you do XFlush() or XSync() after each line or at the end of the total batch? | 17:29 |
| lcuk | end of batch | 17:29 |
| RST38h | ok | 17:29 |
| lcuk | but it happens automatically if x11 fills its buffers | 17:29 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Congratulations, as XUL is the quasi-language used for the whole FireFox UI | 17:30 |
| lcuk | i hope to god this is right, its from vauge memories from right at the start | 17:30 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: In other words, no chance of getting rid of it :) | 17:30 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I do suspect you won't be able to use DrawPoly if you would like to change color on each segment though | 17:31 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, hm, do things like kazehakase use it? | 17:31 |
| lcuk | yeah RST38h me too, ive never been able to use such apis in windows either | 17:31 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Well, some people found it pretty usable for UI outside FF | 17:31 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: It *is* neat, just heavy | 17:31 |
| lcuk | +1 | 17:31 |
| lcuk | and its not *that* heavy | 17:31 |
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| lcuk | for what it does | 17:32 |
| lcuk | anyway, must dash, bbl | 17:32 |
| johnx | lcuk, I'm really surprised to hear someone like you say that :) | 17:32 |
| StOrM_NW | i m using this kernel on n810 - linux Nokia-N810-43-7 2.6.21-omap1 kernel, does it provides bridge support? CONFIG_BRIDGE=y/m? or i will have to get the source and compile my own kernel version and flash it to the device? | 17:32 |
| ShadowJK | hm, I need to capture some data for one of those long periods of firefox locking up | 17:32 |
| johnx | ever try anything xul based on the tablet? | 17:32 |
| StOrM_NW | i m trying to use bridge-utils on maemo | 17:33 |
| lcuk | johnx, just because im very interested in optimization does not mean i dislike scripting :: i just think it works better with an optimized core:: liqbase may very well end up with a scripting language built up around it :) but im not quite sure if i will wire one up just yet :P | 17:33 |
| lcuk | having everything in C gives many more options for adding bindings for anything I want - i havent restricted myself by writing in something unusable elsewhere | 17:34 |
| lcuk | ;) | 17:34 |
| lcuk | cya later | 17:34 |
| johnx | 'later lcuk :) | 17:34 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: http://jaiku.com/channel/mer/presence/52297083 btw | 17:53 |
| johnx | priorities? | 17:53 |
| johnx | yup, looking at them in order | 17:53 |
| Stskeeps | nah, CC NC discussion | 17:54 |
| johnx | ah...hmmm | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | i just thought about when seeing licensing on some audio files | 17:54 |
| Macer | argh! | 17:54 |
| Macer | i can't seem to get kubuntu to work in adhoc mode | 17:54 |
| Macer | it's driving me nuts :) | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | (i loathe licenses discussion but i think this one is good to get down before we continue too far with project :) | 17:55 |
| Macer | i have no idea why it's not picking it up.. the n800 picks it up fine | 17:55 |
| Macer | is there like something special you have to do in ubuntu/kubuntu to get adhoc going? | 17:55 |
| Macer | like... insmod adhoc | 17:55 |
| Macer | heh | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: no, should work fine. Wifi driver problem usually | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | "Create new wireless network"? | 17:55 |
| Macer | yah | 17:55 |
| Macer | it sees the adhoc network | 17:55 |
| Macer | but won't connect/acquire ip from the phone | 17:56 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I think it's important to keep things that give us a 'competitive advantage' or that constitute 'differentiation' from being used against us by our competitors | 17:56 |
| * johnx runs :D | 17:56 | |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I agree with you 100% | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | hehe :P | 17:56 |
| johnx | it was just too good to avoid saying | 17:56 |
| johnx | Macer, wait, so it won't associate or it doesn't get an IP? | 17:57 |
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| * johnx comments on-record | 17:57 | |
| Macer | i don't think it's associating | 17:58 |
| johnx | Macer, what does iwconfig say? | 17:58 |
| Macer | when kubuntu tries to connect to the adhoc network it just goes through channels | 17:58 |
| Macer | and never connects | 17:58 |
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| Macer | the n800 just gets right on and works :) | 17:58 |
| Macer | i am about to install vista on this macbook | 17:59 |
| Macer | i want my laptop to be able to tether to this damn phone heh | 17:59 |
| lcuk | johnx, are you ill? i thought i saw you vomit a little bit up there | 17:59 |
| johnx | lcuk, I couldn't resist the irony :) was too tempting | 17:59 |
| Macer | i don't think the kubuntu netwrok-manager actually knows it is an adhoc network | 17:59 |
| lcuk | its not just irony, its coppery and zincy as well | 18:00 |
| Macer | it doesn't seem to change its mode when trying to connect | 18:00 |
| Macer | sure wish someone would just make ap software for the g1 :) | 18:00 |
| Macer | that would be awesome | 18:00 |
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| * lcuk wonders how far into bootup he would need to go before being able to bring up liqbase | 18:02 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: Are you going to compile liqbase into the kernel? =) | 18:02 |
| lcuk | heh no, but im betting its feasible to bring it up by the time the please wait loading progress bar is visible | 18:03 |
| lardman | before the x-server? | 18:03 |
| lcuk | the progress bar uses x doesnt it? | 18:03 |
| lardman | I doubt it | 18:03 |
| lcuk | if not then it will have to wait | 18:04 |
| lcuk | ahhh no, you are right, it uses omapfb directly | 18:04 |
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| * lcuk remembers reading the code | 18:04 | |
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| lcuk | i suppose i could just set omap into the correct stage and get my wiggle on | 18:05 |
| RST38h | Nokia eats up another small software developer | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | who now? | 18:05 |
| RST38h | Bit Side - the Nokia Maps people | 18:05 |
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| lcuk | om nom nom | 18:06 |
| RST38h | There seems to be like a cottage industry of small (5-50 people) companies doing software development for Nokia | 18:06 |
| lcuk | RST38h, thats because nokia has a large collection of devices requiring software developed for it | 18:07 |
| RST38h | I guess Nokia eats them up when they see danger of them going astray =) | 18:07 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Nokia has exactly three kinds of devices | 18:07 |
| lcuk | not always :) | 18:07 |
| RST38h | Ok, there are also dumb phones and even dumber winmobile navigator | 18:07 |
| wazd | Well, work-in-progress: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer | 18:08 |
| wazd | Since I can't change link colors, then I have to change background :( | 18:08 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: still very big contrast with white vs black :P | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | as in, surrounding wiki | 18:09 |
| lcuk | less extreme that before wazd, looks cool, BUT, for the website boundary | 18:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: Why not drop wiki? | 18:09 |
| lcuk | i like the deep water effect - the brilliant white of the old deskttop background was distracting | 18:09 |
| RST38h | This does not seem to require wiki | 18:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: I don't know :D | 18:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: [and can we please have the tentacles reaching from the bottom? ;)] | 18:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: sure, right after managing proper background for blocks :) | 18:10 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: because the Mer homepage is on wiki.maemo.org for now, with no good reason to change it? | 18:11 |
| wazd | Right now it looks like something really extraordinary, not "yet-another-wiki-page" :) | 18:12 |
| wazd | Contrast plays on our side this time | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: how difficult it it to make the layout crash totally? :P | 18:12 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: this layout is pretty scalable) | 18:12 |
| * Stskeeps likes it being on wiki as we can edit things easily and add things easily without going through a huge design process :P | 18:13 | |
| wazd | Stskeeps: you should view it thru some cheap phon I think :) | 18:13 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, wiki's menus obviously get in the way, isn't it a good enough reason? | 18:14 |
| wazd | and it's usable with every skin :) | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | one thing i would like on front page is a link to current sprint, like, "What needs to be done for next release" or the likes, though | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | as it's very hidden atm | 18:14 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: but it means everyone can edit it, there's version control - and the wiki doesn't really get in the way. | 18:14 |
| lardman | and a list of things which need to be done overall, so people can see what they want to tackle? | 18:14 |
| lcuk | how is it easier to port existing applications by hildonizing and adjusting them? | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: i'm not even sure what the high level goals are :P | 18:15 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: well. | 18:15 |
| rm_you | omfg | 18:15 |
| lcuk | omg rm_you, its you - did you fall into a wormhole or something | 18:16 |
| rm_you | haven't opened my IRC client in ... months | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: 1) you don't have to fight with old libraries. 2) you don't have to fight with having to build X library you have on desktop but not on maemo, 3) etc | 18:16 |
| RST38h | rm_us: ehlo | 18:16 |
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| Stskeeps | :P | 18:16 |
| rm_you | lcuk: you could say that :P | 18:16 |
| lcuk | and you are meant to type your proper channel, not this one | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: you just concentrate on hildonizing | 18:16 |
| rm_you | lcuk: how go your projects of late? | 18:16 |
| lcuk | ahhh, so hildonizing by default and also having it available on desktop | 18:16 |
| wazd | hey rm_you :) | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: well as in that you don't need all the other crap you need to do on maemo :P | 18:16 |
| rm_you | hey wazd / RST38h :) | 18:17 |
| lcuk | rm_you, very well actually :) i have lots of goodies built and things are coming together nice enough to let me see glimpses of the whole :) | 18:17 |
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| rm_you | nice | 18:17 |
| wazd | the best thing bout current layout - that you can easily make every Mer page look like index | 18:17 |
| lcuk | yes - my fingers are finally catching up with my mind | 18:17 |
| johnx | hey rm_you :D | 18:17 |
| rm_you | got back into the tablet recently... this time because my GF likes to use it for knitting patterns :) | 18:17 |
| rm_you | johnx: sup :) | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | rm_you: been tracking Mer development? :> | 18:18 |
| rm_you | Stskeeps: I wish... I lost track of like... everything | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | rm_you: if not, definately go see http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 18:18 |
| rm_you | how has it been going? | 18:18 |
| rm_you | kk | 18:18 |
| lcuk | rm_you, don't lie, you havent got a girlfriend and you are just stuck at knitting | 18:19 |
| rm_you | lol | 18:19 |
| * rm_you does like knitting now | 18:19 | |
| lcuk | i used to sign ppl up to knitting websites who riled me | 18:20 |
| rm_you | heh | 18:20 |
| rm_you | ick, why do i still use IE6 | 18:20 |
| lcuk | lol cos its the most stable | 18:20 |
| lcuk | and all the worms have stopped targetting it now | 18:20 |
| * lcuk titters | 18:20 | |
| rm_you | the Mer page looks horrible in IE6 :P | 18:21 |
| rm_you | it fails at CSS | 18:21 |
| StOrM_NW | anyone using maemo sdk+? i m trying to compile kernel using the source version, but i got /bin/sh: arm-linux-gcc: command not found | 18:21 |
| johnx | rm_you, you're like 2 versions of IE behind. WTH do you expect? | 18:21 |
| rm_you | lol | 18:21 |
| wazd | rm_you: this should be fine http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer | 18:21 |
| lcuk | johnx, hes waiting for you to come back and fix it for him | 18:21 |
| rm_you | like i said, dunno why i still use it, besides the enormous hatred i have for IE7 | 18:22 |
| lcuk | rm_you, you have pm :) | 18:22 |
| wazd | oh | 18:22 |
| johnx | lcuk, nah, rm_you was always the one good at fixing windows stuff :P | 18:22 |
| rm_you | lol thanks wazd. still some issues, but usable :P | 18:22 |
| johnx | I was no good at windows so I had to give up :/ | 18:22 |
| wazd | Nothing close to "fine" )) | 18:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol, rm_you, Myrtti will probably start shipping you free tablets if you code up a knitting program. :P | 18:22 |
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| rm_you | lol | 18:22 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: I was seriously considering it | 18:23 |
| lcuk | lolololol | 18:23 |
| Myrtti | oooooooh | 18:23 |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|gone | 18:23 | |
| rm_you | lol | 18:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haa | 18:23 |
| johnx | ahaha | 18:23 |
| Myrtti | I'll knit you a pair of mittens | 18:23 |
| rm_you | sup Myrtti :P | 18:23 |
| Myrtti | and a hat | 18:23 |
| rm_you | lol | 18:23 |
| Myrtti | and a scarf | 18:23 |
| rm_you | what are you looking for in a knitting program? | 18:23 |
| * Stskeeps wonders idly | 18:23 | |
| Myrtti | shawl for your mum? | 18:23 |
| Myrtti | I did one just on Sunday... | 18:23 |
| * rm_you is currently MAKING a shawl for my mum :P | 18:23 | |
| rm_you | Tie One On, from Knitty | 18:23 |
| johnx | wazd, that looks really slick. hadn't seen it yet | 18:23 |
| lcuk | Myrtti, are your knitting creations licensed correctly? | 18:24 |
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| lcuk | can i have the source code to them | 18:24 |
| * wazd really hates IE optimisations but that's the job :( | 18:24 | |
| Myrtti | rm_you: just a basic one that could do graphical patterns | 18:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Advanced Knitting ;) | 18:24 |
| rm_you | anyway, was considering making a true knitting program for maemo, with my GF (who took a few programming classes last year) | 18:24 |
| rm_you | she's crazy good at knitting :P | 18:25 |
| rm_you | I'm still learning | 18:25 |
| Myrtti | rm_you: http://jacquie.typepad.com/Charts/knitChart.htm something like this | 18:25 |
| rm_you | yeah, i was looking for one of these | 18:25 |
| Myrtti | or if you've come across with FairIsle.jar | 18:25 |
| rm_you | I figured it must exist | 18:25 |
| RST38h | AMD has no replacement planned for the aging Geode low-power chip, creating uncertainty for its use in products like future XO laptops made by One Laptop Per Child. There won't be a Geode successor and the company has no core microarchitecture planned to replace the chip, AMD executives said. | 18:25 |
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| RST38h | One Geode less =) | 18:25 |
| rm_you | I can reverse engineer this :P | 18:25 |
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| Myrtti | because really maemo touch screen really is the perfect platform for such an app | 18:26 |
| rm_you | Myrtti: would this knitchart be ok, if i just reverse engineered it and coded it up in maemo? | 18:26 |
| rm_you | cause I don't know everything i would need to know to code this otherwise | 18:26 |
| rm_you | unless my GF did all the specifications :P | 18:26 |
| Myrtti | rm_you: that would be perfect for me :-) | 18:26 |
| lcuk | my cats once reverse engineered a knitted jumper. | 18:27 |
| RST38h | TTG home | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | surprisingly ubuntu has no knitting-related things | 18:27 |
| rm_you | the only thing i can read is like, k5 k2tog p5 | 18:27 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Have you judged and executed them under the rules of DMCA? | 18:27 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: hold on | 18:27 |
| rm_you | i dont understand most of these acronyms yet :P | 18:27 |
| lcuk | nahhh knitting apps exist | 18:27 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: http://myrtti.fi/blog/2008/12/19/dear-santhhhhplanet-ubuntu/ | 18:28 |
| lcuk | RST38h, not at all, hacking is permitted in my household | 18:28 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: pity =) | 18:28 |
| rm_you | Myrtti: I'll look into it though | 18:28 |
| Myrtti | but that has idiotic 3D thing | 18:28 |
| rm_you | my maemo buildbox is still down | 18:28 |
| rm_you | but i has a new server | 18:28 |
| rm_you | so i can make it do the builds | 18:28 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, do you have/plan to have cups in mer? | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | rm_you: you can always grab a Mer VMDK/VDI and code for hildon+mer gtk there ;) | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: er. apt-get install cups. | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:28 |
| slonopotamus | will i be able to print web pages then? | 18:29 |
| rm_you | :P | 18:29 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, cups is easy, but it's up to programmers to decide whether they want to depend on it | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: no clue, maybe | 18:29 |
| rm_you | Myrtti: well, i'll look into it | 18:29 |
| Jaffa | wazd: using images for the headings is pretty nasty... | 18:29 |
| rm_you | Myrtti: are you on Ravelry? | 18:29 |
| * Stskeeps boots up virtualbox | 18:29 | |
| slonopotamus | johnx, hmm. you ship browser preinstalled | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | nop, we don't | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | (atm) | 18:30 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, not yet | 18:30 |
| rm_you | anyway, new server, woo: | 18:30 |
| rm_you | Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on | 18:30 |
| rm_you | /dev/md/0 4.0T 1.3T 2.7T 32% /media/md0 | 18:30 |
| johnx | jeez | 18:30 |
| rm_you | ^_^ | 18:30 |
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| johnx | rm_you, can I get a shell account? :> | 18:30 |
| rm_you | lol | 18:30 |
| rm_you | if you want :P | 18:30 |
| slonopotamus | hmm. then i misunderstood recent mer video | 18:31 |
| rm_you | k, set up :P | 18:31 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, the midori browser is easily downloaded | 18:31 |
| wazd | Jaffa: well, there is still alt-text if you have images turned off | 18:32 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders what the mailing list spam is about. | 18:32 | |
| rm_you | brb shower | 18:33 |
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| Stskeeps | Myrtti: ok, requires GL, not that easy :P | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | maybe mesa or whatever would do the trick, but don't have it setup atm | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | other than that it would probably build fine and work. | 18:39 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: i'll generate new jffs2 over night and test the mtdblock thing works | 18:44 |
| qwerty12 | Nice. *fingers crossed* | 18:45 |
| radic_ | hi qwerty12 | 18:45 |
| qwerty12 | hi radic_ | 18:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Urg, Jussi's making the maemo.nokia.com thing more confusing. <_< | 18:49 |
| johnx | nice :) | 18:49 |
| X-Fade | Indeed. | 18:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not sure how Talk wormed its way in there, either. | 18:49 |
| rm_you | lol | 18:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need at least one head involved who understands all aspects of the relationship between maemo.nokia.com, Maemo@Forum Nokia and maemo.org and I don't think we have that. >_> | 18:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What ships an i.MX these days? | 18:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | They pop up a lot in Linux-on-ARM development stuff. | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | freescale? | 18:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 18:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Freescale's OMAP equivalent | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's the upcoming "arm netbook" stuff | 18:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, they have OMAP1 and OMAP2 equivalent stuff, too. | 18:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I.MX | 18:52 |
| * GeneralAntilles considers updating the page. | 18:52 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody else catch the new OMAP36x chips on TI's site? | 18:53 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders idly if the nokia kernel things for powervr included mbx stuff too, like, basic support | 18:57 | |
| Stskeeps | i know it needs libraries, but still | 18:57 |
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| Dado_ | hi | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | i have xclock working :) | 18:58 |
| AndrewFBlack | qwerty12, I added that thing you showed me on Personal Launcher along with a couple of other things I found to wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/Personal_Menu_tips_and_tricks | 18:59 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, imho basic support is http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/946765.diff. Only powers the chip, nothing else... | 18:59 |
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| qwerty12 | AndrewFBlack, wicked, the page is looking good. | 18:59 |
| AndrewFBlack | qwerty12, thanks | 19:00 |
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| Dado_ | can i ask something about repositories on a N800 or is this the wrong channel? | 19:02 |
| johnx | Dado_, go for it :) | 19:02 |
| lcuk | why in gods name can i not copy n paste from a .doc to the wiki, i wanted to start to get some documentation for the liqbase library up but it keeps really seriously fscking with the layout in major ways that hurt my head :'( | 19:02 |
| Dado_ | thx :-) | 19:02 |
| johnx | #maemo: the first, last and only channel about the Nokia Internet Tablets | 19:02 |
| lcuk | #mer, #liqbase :) | 19:03 |
| Dado_ | i'm new to n800 and have problem with repos... | 19:03 |
| johnx | lcuk, ...except for those other ones | 19:03 |
| Dado_ | i have the offical repo and the extra repo... | 19:03 |
| Dado_ | in extra there are some libs that i want to install | 19:04 |
| Dado_ | but i cant find it via programm manager | 19:04 |
| Dado_ | repo is active | 19:04 |
| Dado_ | any hint? | 19:04 |
| johnx | Dado_, only packages with Section: user/* show up in application manager | 19:04 |
| X-Fade | Dado_: The lib is probably not meant to be installed by users. Use apt-get to install it.. | 19:05 |
| johnx | if you know the lib you want, use apt-get install libfoo | 19:05 |
| Dado_ | hmm ok | 19:05 |
| rm_you | Myrtti: did you say if you were on Ravelry? | 19:06 |
| Dado_ | i wanted to install libwww-ssl0 but there are deps with wwwssl (or something like that) | 19:06 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, god, that red on the sprints page is killing me :P | 19:06 |
| Dado_ | libssl i think | 19:06 |
| johnx | qwerty12, workin' on that :P | 19:06 |
| qwerty12 | hehe, nice one johnx :D | 19:06 |
| Dado_ | i need the lib to for streaming from "Mediaportal" | 19:07 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: sorry :P | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: got a better but urgent colour? | 19:07 |
| johnx | mauve | 19:07 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: He propably wants pink ;) | 19:07 |
| qwerty12 | A nicer red :D. | 19:07 |
| rm_you | Stskeeps: 33FF00 :P | 19:08 |
| johnx | naah, we just need to wrap the text in a <blink> | 19:08 |
| johnx | and have some nice <marquee> URGENT! messages at the top | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: go ahead and edit :P | 19:08 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, re a mce clone, I really don't like the idea of one in python... | 19:09 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, hah, I'm terrible at wiki's :P | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: well, any language will do. | 19:09 |
| Dado_ | will apt-get solve depencies in any way? | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: as long as it's more readable than powerlaunch | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | and it not being C | 19:09 |
| johnx | Dado_, it will attempt to solve any deps it can | 19:10 |
| * qwerty12 would prefer one being C (despite hardly understanding it). Speed is nice for a system daemon. | 19:10 | |
| Dado_ | strange, libwww-ssl0 tells me that it needs libssl. And i thing this is in extra, too | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: well, ok, i mean systemui being python or whatever | 19:10 |
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| Stskeeps | mce is a facilitator | 19:10 |
| Dado_ | but it doesn't get the libssl | 19:11 |
| johnx | Dado_, it might need a certain version of libssl | 19:11 |
| Dado_ | did anybody tried to install "mampt" on n800/810 | 19:11 |
| Dado_ | yes, but i can only have one at the same time, or? | 19:12 |
| johnx | just explaining...not providing a solution | 19:12 |
| Dado_ | i know ;-) | 19:12 |
| johnx | where is mampt from? | 19:12 |
| Dado_ | mampt: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=618 | 19:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, what DSP is on OMAP2? | 19:14 |
| Dado_ | there are some dependencies for mampt, so i thought to install them before... | 19:14 |
| johnx | Dado_, did you try that 'click to install' link? | 19:14 |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: TMS320C55xx | 19:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Same as the OMAP1? | 19:15 |
| lardman | yes, iirc | 19:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | 220MHz, right? | 19:16 |
| lardman | yep | 19:16 |
| Dado_ | johnx, im blind i do not find such a link... | 19:16 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: why's that? | 19:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, I'm fixing the OMAP wiki page. | 19:17 |
| johnx | Dado_, http://mompt.garage.maemo.org/mampt.htm | 19:17 |
| Dado_ | .. or do you mean clicking to install through programmanager? | 19:17 |
| Dado_ | i didn't tried it because of "Before installing the MaMPt application its necessary to install its requirements" | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Would it be appropriate to describe the PowerVR as a "GPU"? | 19:18 |
| Dado_ | so i tried this first .... and failed :-( | 19:18 |
| lardman | johnx: what approach are we taking for Mer, use the DSP for audio out or move to ARM-side control via kernel + portaudio? | 19:18 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: yeah | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | "2D/3D Graphics Accelerator" is a little awkward. ;) | 19:19 |
| lardman | :) | 19:19 |
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| johnx | lardman, anything that works. I think the the arm side would be prefered in that it's less finicky | 19:19 |
| lardman | that's also what will be used in Fremantle | 19:19 |
| johnx | and also what can be redistributed freely | 19:19 |
| johnx | and can be compatible with more ubuntu apps | 19:19 |
| lardman | yep | 19:19 |
| johnx | etc, etc, :) | 19:19 |
| lardman | will probably mean flashing a new kernel though... | 19:20 |
| johnx | lardman, some people are poking at kexec...solca and fanoush I believe | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | that's fine | 19:20 |
| lardman | ok | 19:21 |
| rm_you | bbl | 19:21 |
| lardman | anyone got the diablo kernel source handy? | 19:22 |
| lardman | /sound/soc/omap/n810.c | 19:22 |
| johnx | Dado_, could you do: apt-cache show libwww-ssl0 and see exactly what version of libssl it wants? | 19:22 |
| Dado_ | just a second ... | 19:23 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, sure it's diablo kernel source you want? There's no file called n810.c here. | 19:23 |
| qwerty12 | In 2.6.21 anyway. | 19:24 |
| lardman | qwerty12: yeah, wanted to see if a kernel recompile was actually necessary | 19:24 |
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| lardman | http://ftp.gnu.org/tmp/linux-libre-fsf2_2.6.28/linux-2.6.28/sound/soc/omap/n810.c | 19:24 |
| johnx | has anyone even managed to ouput sound from the arm side successfully? | 19:24 |
| lardman | it's in 2.6.27 onwards I think | 19:25 |
| lardman | the Android[people? | 19:25 |
| lardman | s/{/ / | 19:25 |
| * lardman can't type | 19:25 | |
| johnx | I didn't realize they had... | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | btw it seems like the nokia kernel might have ALSA driver for some of the SoC drivers | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | not sure if n800 is in there | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | as in, the new one | 19:25 |
| qwerty12 | N800 users are getting fucked over from what I can remember. Dunno if anyone has made a n800 driver yet | 19:26 |
| Dado_ | johnx: libwww-ssl0 wants libssl0.9.7 | 19:26 |
| johnx | iiinteresting | 19:27 |
| johnx | looks like I have both installed without conflicting | 19:28 |
| johnx | 0.9.7 and 0.9.8 | 19:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | If somebody wants to eyeball this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAP | 19:28 |
| AndrewFBlack | Hey if I make a new icon I want to use with Personal Launcher where do I put it on tablet? | 19:28 |
| qwerty12 | AndrewFBlack, /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/ is a good bet | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: so needs a NIT reference.. i mean, pandora is there and beagleboard.. | 19:28 |
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| Dado_ | do you know how to install 0.9.7 parallel to 0.9.8? | 19:29 |
| qwerty12 | AndrewFBlack, that folder wants 64x64 icons | 19:29 |
| Dado_ | i even did not find the package name :-( | 19:29 |
| qwerty12 | Dado_, just install it? | 19:29 |
| AndrewFBlack | ok thanks I made it as far as finding /usr/share/icons/hicolor/ just wasn't sure after that lol | 19:29 |
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| johnx | Dado_, one sec | 19:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, done. | 19:30 |
| lardman | drivers/spi/tsc2301-mixer.c for the n800, is that there? | 19:31 |
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| lardman | sound/soc/codecs/tsc2301_mixer.c | 19:31 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: HAM's not working in snapshots? On device? What's the problem - I might recognise it, but I haven't got time to test it :( | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: it works but it doesn't seem to show any repositories or lists, or allow installation | 19:32 |
| AndrewFBlack | qwerty12, do I need to do anything after putting file there? | 19:32 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Right, then that's the lack of a network connection. | 19:32 |
| johnx | Dado_, open up application manager and look see if you have the 'tableteer' repo enabled | 19:32 |
| qwerty12 | AndrewFBlack, run "gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor" as root | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: ah. | 19:32 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: See the 'assume-connection' bit of the chroot install instructions. | 19:32 |
| Dado_ | no i havent | 19:33 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: libconic is reporting "DISCONNECTED", so it doesn't do anything. | 19:33 |
| Dado_ | i would know ;-) | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: nice job telling me to rtfm, was well deserved :> | 19:33 |
| Dado_ | i try to add this | 19:33 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Well, I wasn't sure if it was just going to be a chroot issue ;-) | 19:33 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: What's the plan with icd/libconic/nm? | 19:34 |
| wazd | Is it possible to remove borders from here: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Wazd/Sandbox/Mer/Community | 19:34 |
| Dado_ | johnx do you mean: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/ | 19:34 |
| Dado_ | ? | 19:34 |
| johnx | yup | 19:34 |
| Dado_ | k | 19:34 |
| Jaffa | wazd: yes, border="0" on the table. | 19:34 |
| Jaffa | wazd: I think the heading's a bit big to use on the subpages, isn't it? And having to create an image for *every* page subtitle is going to be a pain for anyone but you | 19:35 |
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| lardman | need to reboot, bbiam | 19:35 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: short-term, someone should write a dbus server that is a wrapper over NM dbus messages.. | 19:36 |
| AndrewFBlack | qwerty12, thanks that worked | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: since libconic is "just" a dbus wrapper | 19:36 |
| wazd | Jaffa: I've tried various things with "border" tag but nothing helps | 19:37 |
| Dado_ | ok | 19:37 |
| Dado_ | got it | 19:37 |
| Jaffa | wazd: hmm | 19:38 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: is there a standard setting where you can enable assume connection, or does that require red pill? | 19:39 |
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| Stskeeps | like, if a user was to do it | 19:40 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: you have to put a line in ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager AFAICT | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | k | 19:40 |
| Jaffa | There's no red-pill UI for it, I don't think | 19:40 |
| johnx | a job for start-hildon? | 19:40 |
| johnx | (yes, ugly, I know :) ) | 19:41 |
| Jaffa | Maybe in the postinst of HAM (along with the migrate settings) | 19:41 |
| Jaffa | Actually, that wouldn't work | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: well, at imaging time user doesn't exist, so :P | 19:41 |
| johnx | eep. I really don't like postinst touching things in$HOME | 19:41 |
| Jaffa | johnx: it already does in HAM - but that's upstream for you :-/ | 19:41 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: indeed. Options are: 1) DBUS wrapper around nm; 2) Fake libconic which may or may not talk to nm; 3) fudge it in start-hildon | 19:42 |
| Jaffa | Some sh-fu required to not blat any other Red Pill settings, and ensure it doesn't add too many: | 19:42 |
| Jaffa | grep 'assume-connection 1' ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager || echo 'assume-connection 1' >>~/.osso/hildon-application-manager | 19:43 |
| Dado_ | johnx: i have included the repo, what now? | 19:43 |
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| Jaffa | johnx/Stskeeps: that line in start-hildon should do it | 19:43 |
| johnx | Dado_, that repo should have libssl0.9.7. apt-get install libssl0.9.7 | 19:44 |
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| johnx | Jaffa, will add now :) | 19:44 |
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| * lardman wishes he had enabled hash on shi sftp transfer | 19:46 | |
| Stskeeps | johnx: first-boot-wizard with 'users' compiled on armel yet? | 19:46 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, not yet | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 19:46 |
| johnx | do you want it now? | 19:46 |
| Stskeeps | can wait till its done :P | 19:46 |
| johnx | it *should* be ok | 19:47 |
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| AndrewFBlack | am I only person who wishes Personal Launcher icons could be just a little bigger lol | 19:47 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, going through the red-list. where should that incompatible bootmenu check be? early init.d or linuxrv? | 19:48 |
| johnx | *linuxrc | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: bootbasics, linuxrc doesnt get run if its not the right bootmenu :) | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: wazd was doing artwork, so we can just use the same thing splash uses | 19:49 |
| johnx | great. I'll put something in and we can change the art later | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | it is the number one cause of most bugs we see so :P | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: works with assume-connection | 19:51 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: cool; sorry I didn't document it as a limitation more clearly | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: hehe | 19:51 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: on the plus pont, the line from the chroot install instructions can come out now :) | 19:51 |
| * Stskeeps looks at his apartment | 19:51 | |
| * Stskeeps needs to clean it. | 19:51 | |
| Stskeeps | i find it kinda scary this mer thing is starting to feel like an actual usable OS :P | 19:52 |
| johnx | grrr...I think lshal calls touchscreens 'touchpad' | 19:52 |
| johnx | does it call touchpads (on laptops) the same thing? | 19:52 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: wonder why synaptics likes it.. | 19:52 |
| johnx | yeah, author of the driver probably never had something with a touchscreen | 19:53 |
| johnx | be nice to not make the same mistake :) | 19:53 |
| johnx | *sigh...* | 19:53 |
| AndrewFBlack | Stskeeps, Is there an easy way to install it yet I hate lol been to scared to install it so far | 19:54 |
| johnx | lshal | grep -i touchscreen will work on n800 and zaurus because the 'product name' is right | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | AndrewFBlack: wait for sunday and then it is :P | 19:54 |
| AndrewFBlack | awsome been waiting | 19:54 |
| johnx | both zaurus and n800 call their touchscreens, touchpads >_< | 19:54 |
| johnx | if this is a HAL limitation I'll smack someone with a trout | 19:55 |
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| johnx | thoughts? opinions? anyone? | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 19:55 |
| johnx | sure | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | joystick detection maybe | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:57 |
| johnx | huh? | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | just noticed a thing about touchpad/joystick/mouse detection | 19:57 |
| Jaffa | Are there any photos of it running on a zaurus? Is the performance acceptable? Is it viable? | 19:58 |
| johnx | Jaffa, screenshots only. for some things, not browser, yes, I intend to give it a darn good try. | 19:58 |
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| * Jaffa wonders about an old Psion netBook port... a 200MHz StrongARM may be pushing it. But then, it's 770-quality hardware. RAM might be a limitation, can't remember how much it's got. | 19:58 | |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: well, has to be armv5t at this point :P | 19:58 |
| johnx | 64MB of RAM is painful | 19:58 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: good, would hate to think it's something I might try ;-) | 20:00 |
| johnx | a strongarm is armv4 so it can't run Debian or Ubuntu EABI binaries. also the 2.6 kernel port for strongarm is kind of shaky so you'd either half to clean up some drivers or run with 2.4 and an older distro | 20:00 |
| Jaffa | Best forgotten. | 20:00 |
| johnx | 'fraid so *sighs* | 20:01 |
| Jaffa | Roll on a light weight modern ARM netbook (*cough* Foleo *cough*) | 20:01 |
| johnx | (re: zaurus collie, psion netbook) it would be neat, but the man hours to put into it are better spent at a minimum wage job earning money to pickup a used n800 | 20:01 |
| Jaffa | netbook's a nicer format for doing "real" work on than an N8x0, though (having just got mine out to be a monitoring serial console for my media PC when X/kernel [not sure] crashes) | 20:02 |
| * Jaffa homes | 20:02 | |
| johnx | the clamshell zaurus is a very nice platform for working on the train or at a coffee shop. | 20:03 |
| johnx | ok, I'm going to do $(lshal | grep -i touchscreen) for now unless someone hates it or has a better idea | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough | 20:05 |
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| johnx | I'll put a big FIXME above it | 20:06 |
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| Dado_ | johnx: i got the libs intalled. thx for help. But now i have another question: | 20:08 |
| johnx | sure :) | 20:08 |
| Dado_ | i now want to install mampt via "click to install" but the browser opens only a noew window with the content, no progmanager | 20:08 |
| Dado_ | what to do? | 20:09 |
| johnx | download the armel deb from the downloads page on that site | 20:09 |
| Dado_ | ok and the install via apt-get? or click on it via filemanager? | 20:09 |
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| johnx | just click in file manager (or use dpkg -i if you want to) | 20:10 |
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| johnx | the whole point of .install 'click to install' files is to avoid all this :/ most of the time it's actually simple... | 20:11 |
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| Dado_ | ahh ok | 20:14 |
| Dado_ | ok i have still problems with the req libmompt | 20:14 |
| johnx | missing? won't install? | 20:14 |
| Dado_ | i installed 0.3 but installing of mampt says it it missed | 20:15 |
| Dado_ | strange | 20:15 |
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| johnx | what version of libmompt does mampt want? | 20:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, I think I missed my deadline for the community highlights. . . . | 20:21 |
| Dado_ | i dont find it, but i now have to go. Can i ask you another time? | 20:21 |
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| johnx | Dado_, sure. I'm always here :D | 20:21 |
| Dado_ | Oh! ;-) | 20:22 |
| Dado_ | now cinema with girlfriend has priority! ;-) | 20:22 |
| Dado_ | bye till next time and thx again | 20:22 |
| johnx | heh...fair enough. My wife's already asleep | 20:22 |
| johnx | 'later | 20:22 |
| lardman | hmm, maemo-launcher is taking ~50% cpu, Xomap ~20% and tar&gzip about 15% | 20:24 |
| lardman | while untarring the snapshot archive for Mer | 20:24 |
| lardman | I wonder why the usage by Xomap and maemo-launcher? | 20:24 |
| johnx | is something updating on the screen? | 20:24 |
| lardman | yeah, terminal is showing the progress | 20:24 |
| lardman | it's the installation tool | 20:25 |
| johnx | :) | 20:25 |
| johnx | there's your answer | 20:25 |
| lardman | still interesting it takes so much | 20:25 |
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| lardman | and what about maemo-launcher? | 20:25 |
| johnx | a lot of things run inside maemo-launcher | 20:26 |
| lardman | yeah, but must be something specific to the installation I guess | 20:26 |
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| AndrewFBlack | You know its the simple applications that makes me wish I had an iphone sometimes. Like a Movie Show Times Application. Most movie sites run like crap on my n810 really need a barbone script or a native app | 20:28 |
| lardman | when you shut down, and you get the Nokia logo, is the bg not quite the same colour as the bg around the logo, or is that just me? | 20:28 |
| lcuk | AndrewFBlack, :) i love simple applications | 20:29 |
| qwerty12 | It's set by the current theme | 20:29 |
| lardman | AndrewFBlack: you could write your own, it looked pretty simple | 20:29 |
| lardman | qwerty12: ah, ok | 20:29 |
| johnx | AndrewFBlack, try google or a google widget | 20:29 |
| johnx | jeez. there's movies out I haven't even heard of O_o | 20:30 |
| lardman | hmm, am getting "Please check username" dialog repeatedly | 20:30 |
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| johnx | lardman, what are you putting in for it? | 20:30 |
| AndrewFBlack | lardman, wish I knew how to program and I would | 20:30 |
| lardman | the name I have in there is "simon" | 20:30 |
| lardman | AndrewFBlack: I think there was a thread on itt, or was that you? | 20:31 |
| AndrewFBlack | I think I had one a while ago | 20:31 |
| johnx | lardman, try something else see if it works | 20:31 |
| lardman | Just tried "si" same problem | 20:31 |
| lardman | bbiam | 20:31 |
| johnx | lardman, when you get back, did you include any punctuation in your full name (not username) | 20:33 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 20:34 |
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| * lcuk feels a bit better starting to document and clarify the library bounds | 20:47 | |
| lcuk | i should be able to actually start moving my apps into it v soon :) | 20:48 |
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| lardman | johnx: no punctuation other than 2 capital letters and a space between first and surname | 20:48 |
| johnx | really, really odd | 20:48 |
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| AndrewFBlack | I need to go buy a book and learn python I guess | 20:49 |
| johnx | lardman, is this a fresh 0.6 or a later snapshot? | 20:49 |
| lardman | hmm, just pressed cancel, not much happening now | 20:49 |
| lardman | johnx: fresh snapshot | 20:49 |
| johnx | ah | 20:49 |
| johnx | ok...that makes things a bit different | 20:50 |
| johnx | hmm | 20:50 |
| johnx | lardman, would you be willing to pop the battery, reboot into maemo and chroot into mer and install a new first-boot-wizard once I cook it? | 20:50 |
| johnx | should be about 10 minutes | 20:50 |
| lardman | sure | 20:50 |
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| lardman | popped and rebooting | 20:51 |
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| lardman | johnx: just going to eat some supper, will be back in a bit | 20:58 |
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| Stskeeps | lo daperl | 20:59 |
| daperl | yo | 21:00 |
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| Stskeeps | sup? | 21:01 |
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| daperl | well, is dsme considered a secondary watchdog? if so, it's dead before i kexec -e | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it does watchdog stuff | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | as in, it kicks the omap watchdog | 21:03 |
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| daperl | what is it to "kick a watchdog?" | 21:03 |
| johnx | basically the watchdog counts down | 21:03 |
| johnx | if it doesn't get reset, the device is rebooted | 21:04 |
| johnx | so dsme resets ("kicks") it every several seconds | 21:04 |
| johnx | more "dead man's switch" than "watchdog" IMNSHO | 21:05 |
| daperl | so i shouldn't kill dsme before i kexec -e? | 21:05 |
| johnx | that would certainly help | 21:05 |
| johnx | did you enable no-lifeguard-reset? | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | daperl: my hint was regarding simply resetting it manually just before kexec | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | so it has 60 seconds to boot up | 21:06 |
| daperl | yeah, i don't know the abc's of this stuff, but let me see if i understood your last statement | 21:07 |
| gladiac | http://www.csync.org/maemo/ ;) | 21:09 |
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| Stskeeps | daperl: basically echo 60 > /sys/devices/platform/retu-watchdog/period | 21:12 |
| daperl | well, i actually don't understand. but i think i could. feel free to just talk kernel-boot at me | 21:12 |
| MaceN800 | hm | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | it will reset the watchdog just enough time as to allow a bootup :P | 21:13 |
| MaceN800 | hm... this sucks | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | MaceN800: mm? | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | boston legal got cancelled? | 21:14 |
| MaceN800 | yeah | 21:14 |
| MaceN800 | it started to suck by the 4th season anyways | 21:14 |
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| daperl | so, even though kexec -e is starting a new kernel, i want to make sure that the hardware doesn't reset while i'm trying to do this? | 21:15 |
| johnx | exactly | 21:15 |
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| johnx | the watchdog is a physical chip | 21:16 |
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| Alendit_ | hi, can someone explain, how do i make a boot item for bootmenu, so i can install mer on my sd card? | 21:16 |
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| MaceN800 | there are a ton of sites that will explain it | 21:17 |
| MaceN800 | grey's anatomy is getting rather out there | 21:17 |
| Alendit_ | yeah, where | 21:17 |
| daperl | ah, i thought it was just software with interrupts | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | Alendit_: ok, did you install mer through the installer? | 21:17 |
| Alendit_ | no, in wiki is said it doesn't play well with a sd card | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | no, that's not what it says | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | it says, don't play nice with clone-to-SD, which is when you copy your maemo to a SD card :P | 21:18 |
| RST38h | johnx: afaik watchdog is a circuit inside OMAP2 | 21:18 |
| RST38h | johnx: basically a countdown timer plugged into the reset line | 21:18 |
| johnx | RST38h, going for concept not specifics :P | 21:18 |
| MaceN800 | heh | 21:18 |
| daperl | so, i keep dsme alive and have it send the watchdog a "stay alive for 60 seconds message"? | 21:19 |
| Alendit_ | and this is what i mend | 21:19 |
| johnx | lardman, I think I have a first-boot-wizard that works | 21:19 |
| radic | dpkg want's root privilegs in the scratchbox | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | Alendit_: alright. - and you have that? | 21:19 |
| Alendit_ | Stskeeps, yes, i cloned my os to sd | 21:20 |
| radic | Stskeeps: can you help me? | 21:20 |
| johnx | radic, fakeroot dpkg | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | radic: if you do my linear algebra homework | 21:20 |
| Alendit_ | now i want to do the same with mer | 21:20 |
| johnx | daperl, kill dsme last and also use that 'echo ...' line Stskeeps gave you | 21:20 |
| johnx | Alendit_, let me paste up my mer.item. one moment | 21:20 |
| radic | Stskeeps: I can try it | 21:20 |
| Alendit_ | kk | 21:21 |
| daperl | i'll give it a try | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | Alendit_: you'll also a .item for your cloned to SD maemo | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | +need | 21:21 |
| Alendit_ | i didn't user this bootloader | 21:21 |
| Alendit_ | *use | 21:21 |
| radic | thx johnx | 21:22 |
| MaceN800 | at least the n800 | 21:22 |
| Alendit_ | it was an older version, there was no /etc/bootloader.d | 21:22 |
| johnx | Alendit_, do you have a /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.sh ? | 21:22 |
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| MaceN800 | can use my g1 | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | Alendit_: yes, i know, and you need to use the deb bootmenu we point to, to run mer, else it will self-destruct :P | 21:22 |
| Alendit_ | my mnt ist empty | 21:22 |
| johnx | actually, I'll be putting in that self destruct presently... | 21:23 |
| Alendit_ | i know | 21:23 |
| Alendit_ | thats why i installed this new loader | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so you have - good | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 21:23 |
| Alendit_ | and now i need an .item file | 21:23 |
| FunkyPenguin | just as a piece of packaging news for people - http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/01/27/build-maemo-apps-with-opensuse-buildservice-it-works/ | 21:23 |
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| Stskeeps | FunkyPenguin: does it build for Mer yet? ;) | 21:23 |
| johnx | FunkyPenguin, so you feed it debian source packages or something else? | 21:24 |
| FunkyPenguin | Stskeeps: if the mer sdk repo is available then yes it will | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | Alendit_: http://rafb.net/p/k0E93s77.html is an example .item for maemo SD | 21:25 |
| Alendit_ | thx | 21:25 |
| Alendit_ | why this isn't in wiki, actually? | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | feel free to document it .. | 21:25 |
| Alendit_ | kk | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | Alendit_: are you intending to use a full SD for Mer? | 21:26 |
| johnx | Alendit_, and here's one for booting mer: http://rafb.net/p/S6l8ib53.html | 21:26 |
| FunkyPenguin | johnx: im not the one who did it just passing the news on so i cant tell exactly | 21:26 |
| Alendit_ | Stskeeps, yes, why? | 21:26 |
| MaceN800 | wow... only in hollywood could you replace every single internal organ | 21:26 |
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| MaceN800 | and have no problems | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | Alendit_: good, then use installer and select "simple" and it'll make your item for you | 21:27 |
| MaceN800 | i mean seriously everything | 21:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody have any clues about OMAP36x? | 21:27 |
| MaceN800 | liver.. lungs.. heart | 21:27 |
| Alendit_ | would it also format my sd? i quite fucked up my system so i need a reinstall | 21:27 |
| FunkyPenguin | johnx: if you would like more info pop into #opensuse-buildservice or i'll ask someone to do a more detailed post | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | Alendit_: yeah, the SD you select to | 21:27 |
| johnx | FunkyPenguin, it's probably up there...I was just curious if someone knew the answer right off | 21:27 |
| Alendit_ | Stskeeps, ok, thx | 21:27 |
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| johnx | FunkyPenguin, I'll read all about it later. thanks for sharing :) | 21:28 |
| FunkyPenguin | np | 21:28 |
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| daperl | is there any way to get debug info from kexec -e? | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | Alendit_: and then when it dies after asking for root pasword, run 'refresh_bootmenu.d' from a root shell | 21:29 |
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| MaceN800 | hm | 21:30 |
| johnx | wow! if this opensuse cross-build thing actually works it's pretty interesting | 21:31 |
| dl9pf | it works | 21:31 |
| dl9pf | ;) | 21:32 |
| RST38h | back | 21:32 |
| RST38h | opensuse on NIT? why? | 21:32 |
| johnx | RST38h, you missed it. hit your scrollback | 21:32 |
| johnx | I mainly wonder if it can actually build any debian source package that will build natively | 21:33 |
| johnx | usually cross builders have a habit of being close-but-not-quite | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: as soon as it hits something needing emulation.. | 21:33 |
| dl9pf | it does - its using qemu in a similar way than scratchbox | 21:33 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, it uses qemu. they show it chrooting into a debian arm install from x86 | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | k | 21:34 |
| dl9pf | Stskeeps: btw. thanks for helping with the dsc yesterday ;) | 21:35 |
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| Stskeeps | i helped with a dsc yesterday? | 21:35 |
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| dl9pf | or sisto ? | 21:36 |
| MaceN800 | haha | 21:36 |
| lcuk | whats the best way of writing wiki pages? why cant i just make something simle and wysiwyg in word and copy n paste | 21:37 |
| MaceN800 | only in a tv show can you relace like 4 internal organs and survive | 21:37 |
| MaceN800 | hahaha | 21:37 |
| johnx | lcuk, because the world is a horrible place | 21:37 |
| lcuk | mace, doctors in america removed 8 organs from a woman this morning! | 21:37 |
| MaceN800 | seriously? | 21:38 |
| lcuk | johnx, i had the liqbase_library_overview sorted in word | 21:38 |
| lcuk | yeah mace | 21:38 |
| dl9pf | if you want some more info about the maemo/opensuse build service thing, then you can visit us @ opensuse-arm | 21:38 |
| johnx | dl9pf, I should do some more reading first :) | 21:38 |
| lcuk | MaceN800, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4362780/American-woman-gives-birth-to-live-octuplets.html | 21:38 |
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| johnx | hmm...maybe I'll lurk though | 21:38 |
| lcuk | copy n paste from word should try to retain formatting - maybe i should make something | 21:39 |
| johnx | lcuk, the problem is wiki formatting isn't wysiwyg | 21:40 |
| MaceN800 | i said organs | 21:40 |
| MaceN800 | not organisms | 21:40 |
| lcuk | johnx, could be wordpad, i only do simple editing and a bit of indenting | 21:40 |
| lcuk | but its so difficult | 21:40 |
| lcuk | MaceN800, the organs were transplanted into viable donors :) | 21:40 |
| johnx | wordpad is wysiwyg too! :P this is just some simple markup | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, wikifail. | 21:41 |
| lcuk | yes GeneralAntilles | 21:41 |
| lcuk | its not logical | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk fails at wiki. | 21:41 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, gotta say, editing tables on wikis is quite annoying | 21:41 |
| lcuk | ill write my own fudging wiki then :) | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, then use HTML | 21:41 |
| MaceN800 | octuplets arent organs | 21:42 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, ok, that's not the right answer either :P | 21:42 |
| lcuk | people should not have to learn a new language just to edit a simple document | 21:42 |
| johnx | that's why there's still red on mer's sprint page even though I did half those tasks :P | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, it's not hard to substitute color codes. | 21:42 |
| johnx | lcuk, for markup it's not that bad...but when you start editing tables it becomes a PITA | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, there's no "language" involved. | 21:43 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, it's the formatting, not color codes. I think in hex color codes already :P | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, the problem is, WYSIWYG usually just plain sucks. | 21:43 |
| lcuk | it has a grammar, a user edits the source code which gets marked up into a final binary document | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, um, marking a task done should be setting a color code and setting the completion percentage. | 21:43 |
| radic | I ported cfdisk but it dosn't work | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Both values can simply be replaced. . . . | 21:43 |
| lcuk | oooh so if you do things quickly you can set the color to something cool | 21:44 |
| johnx | radic, define 'doesn't work'. also, it's already available... | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, you have to balance functionality and simplicity | 21:44 |
| lcuk | omg that task has gone to maroon, call the cops | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | WYSIWYG sacrifices functionality for simplicity. | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, just take 20 minutes to review http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet | 21:44 |
| lcuk | yeah GeneralAntilles understood totally, thats why you allow the user and document to specify style (none/wiki/wysiwygish) | 21:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, then somebody editing WYSIWYG breaks the document. | 21:45 |
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| radic | johnx: FATAL ERROR: Bad primary partition 0: Partition endsin the final partial cylinder | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i argue for simplicity because thats what a lot of real users demand | 21:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, most real users don't write documentation. | 21:45 |
| johnx | radic, that's a problem with your partition, not cfdisk | 21:46 |
| radic | johnx: that I get if I start it withe "cfdisk /dev/sda" | 21:46 |
| lcuk | a wiki is for more than documentation | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it's lie uploading to Extras. | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | You have to balance simplicity and ease-of-use with maintaining a good quality. | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, everything on the wiki is documentation. | 21:46 |
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| MaceN800 | She is planning to breast-feed all eight infants, said Mandhir Gupta, head of neonatology at the centre. "She's a very strong woman. She should be able to take care of all eight of them." | 21:47 |
| MaceN800 | that's rough | 21:47 |
| lcuk | apart from the fact clicking help has nothing (as i discovered earlier) | 21:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, are you planning on having sprint reviews? | 21:47 |
| radic | hmm | 21:47 |
| radic | MaceN800: you're red, that's confusing me... | 21:47 |
| MaceN800 | dont people in poor countries breast feed their kids until theyre teens? | 21:48 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, at the footer of the page in edit mode is a link that says "editing help" which leads here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Editing | 21:48 |
| lcuk | its empty | 21:48 |
| lcuk | clicking help on the right brings you to an empty page: here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Contents | 21:48 |
| lcuk | it was empty | 21:48 |
| johnx | lcuk, there's no help for you :> | 21:48 |
| lcuk | (click that one, its fun) | 21:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, https://wiki.maemo.org/Help:Editing | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, you should always feel free to help out and improve the wiki. :) | 21:49 |
| lcuk | cur) (last) 19:48, 27 January 2009 generalantilles | 21:49 |
| lcuk | :D you just added it | 21:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, lcuk, I just added it. | 21:49 |
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| johnx | lcuk, that's the beauty of a wiki | 21:49 |
| lcuk | i thought i was going daft for a moment then | 21:49 |
| * johnx thinks he'll just use ascii art tables instead of mucking about with wiki tables | 21:50 | |
| lcuk | yeah i know i edited it earlier when i found no help :$ my rant now is to help with that | 21:50 |
| lcuk | lol | 21:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't love the inverted page look, wazd. | 21:51 |
| lcuk | ouchy! the editing help at the footer says it will open in a new window, it doesnt and i wouldv lost work :O | 21:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems like it adds a lot of overhead for little benefit. | 21:51 |
| lcuk | no, the computer doesnt have to work as hard sending black pixels around | 21:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, worked fine for me (browser forces them to tabs) | 21:52 |
| johnx | lcuk, you should set your browser to remember post data | 21:52 |
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| Alendit_ | lcuk, take a look http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WYSIWYG_editor | 21:52 |
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| johnx | w00 lardman_ :D | 21:52 |
| Alendit_ | lcuk, it's vor wikipedia software, no idea if maemowiki uses the same syntax | 21:52 |
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| Alendit_ | "s/vor/for/g" | 21:54 |
| gnuton | Hello | 21:54 |
| lcuk | Alendit_, :) thanks for that | 21:55 |
| des^ | I am trying to get the python2.5 sdk but I only get that the package couldnt found, anyone got experience with that? | 21:55 |
| Alendit_ | lcuk, np | 21:55 |
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| lardman_ | hey johnx | 21:57 |
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| johnx | lardman_, got a new first-boot-wizard that's happy to make me a user called 'simon' :) | 21:58 |
| lardman | :) | 21:58 |
| lardman | good stuff, any ideas what the problem was? | 21:58 |
| qwerty12_N800 | It's allergic to Simon's? :P | 21:58 |
| johnx | probably was one of the parts where I was reworking first-boot-wizard earlier today | 21:58 |
| lardman | oi! | 21:58 |
| lardman | :p | 21:58 |
| lardman | do you have a link for the deb then? | 21:59 |
| johnx | it's in the repo | 21:59 |
| lardman | extras-dev? | 21:59 |
| johnx | apt-get update && apt-get install first-boot-wizard or I can find you a link | 21:59 |
| johnx | hmm? it's in the mer repo | 21:59 |
| lardman | no worries, I can do that | 21:59 |
| lardman | ah, what's the mer repo then? | 21:59 |
| johnx | it's setup in your mer install | 21:59 |
| johnx | just chroot and use apt-get | 21:59 |
| johnx | it's not part of maemo, it's part of mer | 22:00 |
| lardman | oh, ok, how do I chroot? Never done that before | 22:00 |
| lcuk | lardman, grit your teeth | 22:00 |
| johnx | first of all, where do you have mer installed? | 22:00 |
| johnx | it's basically just: chroot /mnt/place/where/mer/is/mounted su - | 22:01 |
| Alendit_ | Stskeeps, it works, awesome, thx a lot | 22:01 |
| * qwerty12_N800 would recommend binding in case. I used: 'sudo mount -o bind /dev "/mnt/mer/dev" ; sudo mount -o bind /proc "/mnt/mer/proc" ; sudo mount -t devpts none "/mnt/mer/dev/pts" ; sudo mount -o bind /tmp "/mnt/mer/tmp" ; sudo mount -o bind /sys "/mnt/mer/sys"' | 22:01 | |
| lardman | ... | 22:02 |
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| kpel | hi | 22:03 |
| johnx | lardman, actually, instead of apt-get, just grab this deb: http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/f/first-boot-wizard/first-boot-wizard_0.2-mer2_armel.deb | 22:03 |
| lcuk | \o/ Convert Microsoft Word document content to MediaWiki markup. This is a Word Visual Basic macro. Usage requires a running copy of Microsoft Word that supports Visual Basic macros. (Word 97 or greater). | 22:03 |
| johnx | and chroot and install. easier than getting networking up in a chroot | 22:03 |
| lcuk | for a one off import after im finished editing, thats perfect | 22:03 |
| johnx | lcuk, as long as it's only your own page | 22:03 |
| johnx | I worry heavily about what kind of wiki markup that will spit out | 22:04 |
| Alendit_ | lcuk, word = m$ = evil && eats babies ;) | 22:04 |
| lardman | just trying to work out where Mer was installed | 22:04 |
| johnx | sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk? | 22:04 |
| johnx | look for likely huge ext2/3 partitions :) | 22:04 |
| lcuk | johnx, im gonna write a word macro to download every page in the wiki, convert it and reupload it. in reality ill use it on the one or two documents i need to create | 22:05 |
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| johnx | lcuk, ok...just warning you :) | 22:05 |
| lcuk | yeah i couldnt or wouldnt want to get wiki into word anywya | 22:06 |
| lardman | urgh, mounting fails | 22:06 |
| johnx | lardman, do you have ext3.ko loaded? | 22:07 |
| johnx | lsmod | grep ext | 22:07 |
| lardman | ah, I thought it was ext2 | 22:08 |
| lardman | school-boy error | 22:08 |
| johnx | errr...might be? | 22:09 |
| johnx | either one can work | 22:09 |
| lardman | what's the secret for ext3 then, what else do I need to insert?> | 22:09 |
| lardman | I have ext2 loaded | 22:09 |
| johnx | jbd mbcache and ext3 | 22:09 |
| lardman | cool | 22:09 |
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| lardman | much better - ext2 only needs mbcache; the fs is ext3 and won't be recognised without that module loaded | 22:10 |
| lardman | which is odd, as I thought it could fall back to ext2 | 22:10 |
| lardman | anyway | 22:10 |
| johnx | it won't fall back unless you tell it to | 22:11 |
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| johnx | mount -t ext2 ... would have been fine | 22:11 |
| lardman | no, I tried that | 22:11 |
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| johnx | odd | 22:11 |
| lardman | yeah, probably the wonders of busybox | 22:12 |
| lardman | right, I've run qwerty's commands now | 22:13 |
| lardman | how do I know it worked? | 22:13 |
| johnx | did your prompt change? | 22:13 |
| liri | Stskeeps: ping | 22:13 |
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| beavis | pong | 22:13 |
| beavis | wooh | 22:13 |
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| lardman | hang on, just waiting for apt-get update to finish | 22:13 |
| beavis | wrong route | 22:14 |
| johnx | and/or: ls /etc/rc.local | 22:14 |
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| lardman | nah, didn't work | 22:16 |
| johnx | apt-get update failed? | 22:16 |
| johnx | or the chroot failed? | 22:17 |
| lardman | qwerty's lot failed | 22:17 |
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| johnx | so you're not actually chrooted? | 22:17 |
| lardman | I then tried the chroot, got the following: su: Authentication failure, (Ignored) | 22:17 |
| lardman | I might be now though as that file now exists | 22:18 |
| johnx | are you root? | 22:18 |
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| jpt9 | Hey. | 22:18 |
| JasonWoof | ok, the 2GB vfat partition on my n810 (the one that mounts on the PC) got corrupted again. | 22:18 |
| lardman | of course :) | 22:18 |
| jpt9 | I have a 770 with OS2007HE. I'm trying to run Pidgin 2.4.3, but it just crashes. | 22:18 |
| jpt9 | Any ideas? | 22:18 |
| jpt9 | Maybe where to get an older version? | 22:18 |
| lardman | ok, it's chrooted now | 22:18 |
| johnx | lardman, then copy the .deb files I linked into the place where mer is mounted and do this: chroot /mnt/mer su - | 22:18 |
| JasonWoof | and vfat is crap anyway. I'd like something more linux-friendly, ie that can save the users and permissions, etc | 22:18 |
| JasonWoof | but... doesn't look like the kernel on the tablet (diablo) supports ext3, or even ext2 | 22:19 |
| JasonWoof | what's a good fs to use? | 22:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | it does, once modules are loaded | 22:19 |
| johnx | JasonWoof, first is your partition table correct? some shipped with a broken partition table | 22:19 |
| JasonWoof | I don't care a whole lot if win or mac can mount it, though that would be a nice bonus | 22:19 |
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| johnx | second, the modules are in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$(uname -r) | 22:20 |
| JasonWoof | I've re-partitioned it at some point | 22:20 |
| JasonWoof | cool | 22:20 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, even with the cheatsheet, it doesnt tell me how to display a small box of just code, any ideas | 22:21 |
| lcuk | it makes it into paragraphs | 22:21 |
| lardman | right, installed, time to reboot I take it, unless there are any last rights? | 22:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, put a space at the beginning of the line | 22:21 |
| johnx | lcuk, you want something like 'unformatted' or 'preformatted' | 22:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | or use <pre> | 22:21 |
| JasonWoof | ok, so ext3 sounds good then. | 22:21 |
| JasonWoof | thanks guys | 22:21 |
| lcuk | ahhh thanks | 22:21 |
| johnx | JasonWoof, sure. e2fsprogs is in extras or extras-devel. | 22:21 |
| JasonWoof | sweet :) | 22:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Wikitext_examples | 22:22 |
| JasonWoof | I was hoping I could format it without the help of a PC | 22:23 |
| JasonWoof | because the wireless card on my laptop died, and I'm only online though the tablet | 22:23 |
| JasonWoof | (ethernet over usb to the tablet, wireless from there to my router) | 22:24 |
| qwerty12_N800 | it can be done from tablet as root | 22:24 |
| johnx | eep. bummer. my laptop's wireless card works, but my laptop is dead | 22:24 |
| lardman | johnx: I hate to say it, but it's still broke | 22:24 |
| JasonWoof | rad | 22:24 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lardman, I recommend changing your name :P | 22:24 |
| lardman | lol | 22:24 |
| johnx | lardman, still won't accept your username? | 22:24 |
| lardman | "qwerty" doens't work either | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: can't it be some thing in the realname so it wont add? :P | 22:25 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, he promises it was just spaces and letters | 22:25 |
| lardman | I wrote this: "Simon Pickering" | 22:25 |
| johnx | oh | 22:25 |
| lardman | which is my name | 22:25 |
| johnx | with quotes? | 22:25 |
| lardman | no | 22:26 |
| johnx | ah | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: and you used installer i guess or how did you untar it? | 22:26 |
| johnx | yeah, I can only assume that it barfing the first time messes something up the second time | 22:26 |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: installer | 22:26 |
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| Stskeeps | even the new snapshot? file:///? hm :P | 22:26 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, it's almost certainly a problem with the first-boot-wizard from earlier today having messed something up | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | k | 22:27 |
| lardman | yep, the new file, though I had to do it from the interweb, file:/// wouldn't work | 22:27 |
| lardman | I may as well chroot and add my user? | 22:28 |
| johnx | lardman, yeah, or dpkg -r first-boot-wizard | 22:29 |
| johnx | errr...hmmm | 22:29 |
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| lardman | is there a flag/file which it looks for? | 22:29 |
| johnx | it will only run if /etc/default/autologin doesn't exist | 22:29 |
| lardman | ok | 22:30 |
| lardman | otherwise I get a prompt? | 22:30 |
| lardman | I'll give it a go, bbiab | 22:30 |
| johnx | if you dpkg -r first-boot-wizard it will make you a user without asking you anything | 22:30 |
| lardman | with what user name? | 22:31 |
| lardman | "user"? | 22:31 |
| johnx | 'user' | 22:31 |
| lardman | cool, will try that then | 22:31 |
| johnx | if you echo simon > /etc/default/autologin it will try to log you in as simon | 22:31 |
| johnx | but it won't set some things up... | 22:31 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: snapshot is from last night btw | 22:31 |
| johnx | if you rm /etc/rc2.d/S60auto-startx and select console from rescue it will give you a console | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | which really wonders me why it died then :P | 22:32 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, yeah, probably a broken first-boot-wizard O_o; | 22:32 |
| johnx | sorry about that | 22:32 |
| johnx | I really can't figure out why it's still dying now though | 22:32 |
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| johnx | it must have munched something on his install... | 22:32 |
| lardman | right, I've chrooted, and removed the first-boot-wizard | 22:36 |
| lardman | I tried useradd simon, but am told that the user already exists | 22:36 |
| johnx | well, that's likely the problem | 22:37 |
| lardman | ah, but why? | 22:37 |
| lardman | the wizard must have created the user, then sat there telling me the name was wrong | 22:37 |
| johnx | that area where it was telling you to try again is because adduser was failing somehow | 22:37 |
| lardman | yeah, but first time though was a fresh install | 22:37 |
| johnx | so it might have been able to add the user, but failed in another way | 22:37 |
| johnx | the first time through we have to assume the script was badly fubared | 22:38 |
| johnx | that version escaped without enough testing. I'll test a bit better from now on O_o; | 22:38 |
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| lardman | fair enough, I'll try a reboot now and see what we get | 22:38 |
| lardman | ;) | 22:38 |
| lardman | no worries :) | 22:39 |
| * johnx hates causing regressions | 22:39 | |
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| lardman | well at least it's been found | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | delusered it? | 22:40 |
| lardman | no, kept the user, deleted the wizards | 22:40 |
| lardman | s/s// | 22:40 |
| infobot | lardman meant: no, kept the uer, deleted the wizards | 22:40 |
| lardman | hmm, not quite | 22:40 |
| lcuk | is this the right approach: http://wiki.maemo.org/Liqbase_library_overview | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | k | 22:40 |
| lardman | desktop's come up :) | 22:41 |
| johnx | without the wizard auto-startx will adduser user | 22:41 |
| lardman | I set it to autologin simon | 22:41 |
| johnx | ah, ok then | 22:41 |
| johnx | might want to add yourself to some groups | 22:41 |
| lardman | ok | 22:41 |
| johnx | otherwise network manager might not work *sigh* | 22:41 |
| lardman | where do I find the source for the wizard? | 22:41 |
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| johnx | if you install it again it won't mess with you :) | 22:42 |
| johnx | the source is on launchpad: | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, you know what's going to be fun? If/when Nokia starts pushing updates to individual applications. | 22:42 |
| johnx | waits for lp to come up | 22:42 |
| johnx | https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/first-boot-wizard | 22:42 |
| lardman | fn key doens't work to give numbers in the WPA password dialog | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: yeah, fn is a bit dodgy | 22:43 |
| lardman | ok | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | it gives keycodes over 256 | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | xinput only understands 0-256 | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | er, 0-255 | 22:43 |
| lardman | ok | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | DarkenCZ is looking at it | 22:43 |
| * lardman crosses fingers for wpa password | 22:44 | |
| Stskeeps | "Mount internal FAT partition under /home/user/MyDocs instead of /media/mmc2. | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | " | 22:45 |
| * Stskeeps wonders how much will break cos of that | 22:45 | |
| johnx | hmm? | 22:45 |
| johnx | that's what now? | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | ke-recv, fremantle | 22:45 |
| johnx | O_o | 22:45 |
| * johnx dies | 22:45 | |
| johnx | that's like the kind of enhancement request I would laugh at as it got shot down | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | well it makes more sense than having it on friggen flash.. | 22:46 |
| johnx | but vfat? | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | mmm | 22:47 |
| johnx | I suppose they want to have it mountable by a PC but how are they going to claw it away from running apps with open files...? | 22:47 |
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| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, when will it happen? :-) | 22:49 |
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| johnx | heh | 22:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre__, hopefully soon, hopefully never. . . . | 22:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Harmattan, maybe. | 22:50 |
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| johnx | in the utopian future where maemo is based on mer and my n9000 makes piping hot coffee on demand | 22:52 |
| andre__ | oh, coffee... | 22:53 |
| Jaffa_ | johnx/Stskeeps: have you tested row #2 in Mer/Sprints/0.7 (HAM in snapshots)? Might be worth a progress update | 22:53 |
| johnx | Jaffa_, will poke at it in a sec | 22:54 |
| johnx | actually I can do it right now :) | 22:54 |
| Jaffa_ | ta :) | 22:54 |
| * Jaffa_ was going to, but's now tied up in debmaster interviewing | 22:54 | |
| johnx | as long as someone tells me where does gtk keep it's nice little stop sign icon | 22:54 |
| JasonWoof | is there a good way to auto-load the ext3 kernel module? | 22:56 |
| JasonWoof | eg at boot time | 22:56 |
| JasonWoof | I formatted by /dev/mmcblk0p1 ext3 and I'd like it to mount automatically at bootup like it did when it was vfat | 22:57 |
| johnx | if you format the first partition on your internal card ext3 I think it might autoload ext3.ko and automount | 22:57 |
| johnx | otherwise you'll have to add it to an init script | 22:57 |
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| johnx | it's worth testing before you crack open an editor though :) | 22:58 |
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| * lardman__ wonders how to add himself to some groups with the term not working nor the network | 23:00 | |
| lardman__ | any suggestions for which groups to add myself to? | 23:00 |
| etrunko | lardman__: how many of you ? | 23:00 |
| dneary | Hi lardman__ | 23:00 |
| lardman__ | just the one | 23:00 |
| lardman__ | hey dneary, etrunko | 23:00 |
| * lardman__ has poor connection | 23:01 | |
| dneary | Where's lardman, lardman|gone and lardman_? | 23:01 |
| etrunko | gone? | 23:01 |
| lardman__ | yeah, lardman|gone is at work, the rest are here, and will eventually die | 23:01 |
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| b-man | lol | 23:01 |
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| etrunko | ops | 23:02 |
| johnx | lardman, plugdev netdev users admin audio video | 23:02 |
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| Jaffa_ | lardman__: you popping over to the other place; or should we start without you? | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: did you get the diff for me? | 23:03 |
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| b-man | ........ i'm having problems using it, the -ruN extension doesn't work :P | 23:04 |
| * b-man tryed googling but still can not get it to work | 23:05 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: fair enough, just send me a tar.gz of the latest :) | 23:05 |
| johnx | what's the sympton of h-a-m not working? | 23:06 |
| b-man | ok, sorry i could not get you a diff :( | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: no packages showing for instance and no applications installable | 23:06 |
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| johnx | ah, ok. so if it doesn't start at all that's something different :) | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | that's not being member of users i think | 23:06 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: hehe, it's rare anyone has to say sorry to me :) we're not in a rush and it's a learning experience for all of us | 23:07 |
| johnx | ah, hmmm | 23:07 |
| b-man | :) | 23:07 |
| * b-man is still having problems with wireless in ubuntu - even after installing a fixed version of hal and installing tablet-hw-n8x0-support | 23:07 | |
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| johnx | b-man, what sort of problems? disconnects? | 23:07 |
| b-man | no, it can't find the device | 23:08 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: member of plugdev, netdev? | 23:08 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: sign up for launchpad while you're at it | 23:08 |
| b-man | shure :) | 23:08 |
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| lardman__ | Jaffa_: I'll pop over, let me find the name | 23:10 |
| *** lardman__ is now known as lardman | 23:10 | |
| * johnx wishes his bt headphones didn't cause him physical pain :( | 23:11 | |
| b-man | heh | 23:11 |
| lardman | johnx: right, I made myself a member of the root group, wifi now works, but the terminal still won't open for me | 23:11 |
| * b-man wonders if the ubuntu community is aware of his efforts of getting pure ubuntu running on the tablets | 23:12 | |
| johnx | lardman, x terminal or roxterm? | 23:12 |
| Stskeeps | osso-xterm is included | 23:12 |
| lardman | oss-xerm | 23:12 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: i really wonder if the image was unpacked in a wrong way or something | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | tar pzvxf is what i use, and making sure it's gnutar | 23:13 |
| lardman | I just used the installer | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | mmk | 23:13 |
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| Stskeeps | then again, since today i'm going to do linear algebra homework for the first time in 3 years, it is a typical murphys law day | 23:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:14 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: i'm going to upload it to extras-devel over the week probably | 23:15 |
| b-man | ok | 23:16 |
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| lardman | re | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | wb | 23:17 |
| lardman | tx | 23:17 |
| lardman | anyway, not much hope afaict | 23:18 |
| * b-man finishes up packaging merinstaller_1.9.4-1mer1 and sends it to Stskeeps :) | 23:18 | |
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| lardman | and I have a huge lag here, so probably not much hope sorting it this evening either | 23:18 |
| johnx | lardman, alright, I'll beat on first-boot-wizard a little and maybe you can try a fresh install tomorrow if you want | 23:18 |
| lardman | sounds good, sorry for being a pita | 23:19 |
| johnx | not at all. quite the opposite | 23:19 |
| lardman | one thing I did notice, how to you disconnect from wifi? | 23:19 |
| johnx | I hate to have the one piece of mer that is pretty much 'all mine' be screwing up | 23:19 |
| lcuk | lardman, better to have feedback | 23:19 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah, I may be feeding back all too quickly though ;) | 23:19 |
| johnx | lardman, walk away from the access point? | 23:19 |
| lardman | johnx: :D | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: popping the battery, obviously | 23:20 |
| lcuk | lol thats what its there for | 23:20 |
| lardman | but really, there's no way to disconnect afaict | 23:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lardman, if you had a xterm, maybe ifdown? :) | 23:20 |
| lcuk | si, not too soon at all, better to iron out issues like this now before the knowldge is lost as people move onto other things | 23:20 |
| lardman | it appears my root password wasn't actually used, as I couldn't log in via ssh | 23:20 |
| lardman | xterm won't run | 23:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hence the if :) | 23:21 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm | 23:21 |
| lardman | ifdown is not ideal though, should be a gui option | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: NM is really just a symptom of ICD not being public, heh | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | then again, ICD is something nokia did well | 23:21 |
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| johnx | lardman, try right clicking on nm-applet :) | 23:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | btw, was anyone having problems uploading to diablo extras-devel before? | 23:22 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.9.4-1mer1.tar.gz | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: thank you | 23:22 |
| b-man | your welcome, i just hope that bootmenu item issue doesn't re-appear | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: where do you develop nowadays btw? | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | ubuntu or maemo? | 23:24 |
| b-man | both | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | k | 23:24 |
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| * b-man just got accepted into an advanced computer technology class at his highschool btw :D | 23:25 | |
| Stskeeps | woo :P | 23:25 |
| * Stskeeps didn't take anything in highschool seriously besides math and history | 23:26 | |
| b-man | hehe | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | and philosophy | 23:26 |
| * b-man gose to a technical highschool - that's why ;) | 23:26 | |
| johnx | I took computers seriously in high school: I was the sys admin. | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | export MODULE=mbcache jbd ext3 | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | still wrong, should be MODULE="" ;) | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | wasn't the export port that was the issue :) | 23:27 |
| * b-man is the only person in his school to port an os to a device ;) | 23:27 | |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 23:28 |
| * qwerty12_N800 bought a £5 pair of headphones & discovers his N800 does actually do bass. | 23:29 | |
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| b-man | qwerty12; what would £5 be in $? :) | 23:31 |
| Jaffa_ | shush you | 23:31 |
| * Jucato waves at gnuton | 23:31 | |
| b-man | jaffa: shhh :P | 23:32 |
| Jaffa_ | About 2p now; but not too long ago it'd've been $3002030203023 | 23:32 |
| gnuton | Jucato: Welcome in #Maemo :D | 23:33 |
| Jucato | thank you thank you | 23:33 |
| * Jucato takes a bow :) | 23:33 | |
| gnuton | haha :D | 23:33 |
| qwerty12_N800 | b-man, $7 :) | 23:33 |
| b-man | oh :P | 23:34 |
| * qwerty12_N800 needs to figure out where the currency converter in qalculate is... | 23:34 | |
| * b-man has a $20 pair of headphones | 23:35 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: what's a user-space partition again? | 23:35 |
| Jaffa_ | qwerty12_N800: Google. | 23:36 |
| Jaffa_ | (or xe.com/ucc/ if you're feeling posh) | 23:36 |
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| b-man | Stskeeps: it is the partition for the os :P | 23:36 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa_, thanks :). I settled on xe when I got $7 :) | 23:36 |
| b-man | aka root-filesystem ;) | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: ok | 23:37 |
| *** tiagofalcao is now known as tiagofalcao[AWAY | 23:37 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: then why do we mkdosfs it? :P | 23:37 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: i think you mean "would you like to format a FAT partition" :) | 23:39 |
| b-man | ahhhh, wait, i got mixed up - the user space is for user-storage - in fat32 - and then it is the rootfs partition - for mer | 23:39 |
| johnx | oooh, moblin news | 23:39 |
| Jaffa_ | johnx: oh? | 23:39 |
| johnx | Jaffa_, http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2184863928.html?kc=rss | 23:39 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: they're quitting? | 23:39 |
| b-man | (second partition) | 23:39 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, targetting netbooks | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2010 | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seesh | 23:40 |
| johnx | looks like we were right not to wait for them or something silly like that :) | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, it does cut down our competition. | 23:40 |
| * b-man needs some coffie | 23:40 | |
| timsamoff | * please get some for me. :p | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i think we'll have something sane already before 2010.. | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | either that or we will be insane | 23:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | With all the bugs marked "Fixed in Fremantle", I have no doubts in my mind as to Fremantle being the shit ;) | 23:41 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, yeah, and we'll have it for MIDs and tablets, not cheap little notebooks | 23:41 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: shure, i'll change that in 1.9.5-1mer1 ;) | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: -and- cheap little notebooks :P | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: did already | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:41 |
| * b-man really needs coffee ;p | 23:42 | |
| johnx | wow O_o sse3 required to play | 23:42 |
| johnx | well so much for portability | 23:42 |
| benson | Hmm... maybe they realized there won't be a power-efficient x86 until 2010. | 23:42 |
| *** lfelipe is now known as lfelipe[AWAY] | 23:43 | |
| johnx | are they really serious about this moblin thing? this looks like a joke O_o; | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: time to incorporate ourselves and sell ourselves to intel. | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | brb laundry room | 23:44 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, we're not selling out, we're cashing in! | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller/files | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | could you just review it quickly? | 23:45 |
| lcuk | johnx, i love how the clutter video is not actual on device performance :) | 23:45 |
| lcuk | i wonder if they are staying away from mids becuase of performance.. ? | 23:45 |
| * lcuk wonders how well liqbase will run on eee + touch | 23:45 | |
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| johnx | heh...they green screened their demo | 23:48 |
| johnx | awesome | 23:48 |
| johnx | err...nm...they overlayed a picture of a hand O_o | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Weird demo | 23:48 |
| lcuk | even worse :) | 23:48 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: shure | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe a new cursor picture | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's probably what it's going to ship with | 23:49 |
| johnx | whiskey tango foxtrot | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | A giant finger for a cursor | 23:49 |
| lcuk | heh | 23:49 |
| * lcuk gives it a finger | 23:50 | |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, can we ship Mer with a middle finger for a cursor? :) | 23:50 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I will leave the art to you | 23:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | My hand's gonna be famous! | 23:50 |
| timsamoff | GeneralAntilles: Isn't that finger too tied up for photo ops, though? | 23:51 |
| lcuk | lol GeneralAntilles :D you could be a hand model | 23:51 |
| b-man | lol XD | 23:51 |
| * lcuk watches zoolander | 23:52 | |
| * GeneralAntilles opens up Aperture. | 23:52 | |
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| * b-man looks at launchpad | 23:53 | |
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| b-man | Stskeeps: looking ok so far | 23:57 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: question, did you ever use the mer imager? | 23:58 |
| Stskeeps | can't remember if i made you install bzr back then or not | 23:58 |
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| b-man | yes, that is actually what started merinstaller alpha1 :) | 23:59 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: k, then you still have bzr installed on maemo? | 23:59 |
| * b-man checks | 23:59 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, there you go http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=260262 | 23:59 |
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