IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-10-21

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hellwolfI was trying  fakeroot apt-get install hildon-desktop-dev in my diablo scratchbox, but I got "subprocess dpkg-split killed by signal (Segmentation fault),"00:22
hellwolfI don't know what happened00:22
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Stskeepson ubuntu or?00:22
hellwolfmaemo's scratchbox00:23
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Stskeepshellwolf: well that obviously runs on something..00:31
hellwolfI use fedora, but is it relevant00:31
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Stskeepswell there's always the VDSO problem00:32
Stskeepsbrb00:33
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hellwolf$ cat /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled00:34
hellwolf000:34
Stskeepsmkay00:36
Stskeepswell not that then :)00:36
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BilawHello all...00:41
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Bilaw... Help, please? I use Ubuntu, and have just bought a N810. I can't understand how on earth I can install a given app from the maemo platform (sorry for being so dumb). Can anyone tell me how to?00:44
lardmanBilaw: open the application manager00:47
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lardmanunder the Settings menu00:48
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BilawOK, I have opened the app manager, lardman (hum, did I mention that I had no wifi connection around?)..00:50
GeneralAntillesGet a wifi connection00:50
Bilaw(oh. No way to install say, via an SD card, or the USB connection?)00:51
GeneralAntilleslardman, change the name of maemo-barcode and push it for Fremantle.00:51
lardmanyes it's possible, but not ideal00:51
lardmanGeneralAntilles: change name to what?00:51
GeneralAntillesSomething that's compliant with the trademark.00:51
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I'm going to do some work on it now actually00:51
GeneralAntillesbarcode-for-maemo or something.00:51
lardmanlower case "m" then? ;)00:52
GeneralAntillesIt's lowercase for the unix name00:52
GeneralAntillesThe issue is the ordering00:52
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GeneralAntillesMaemo x is a violation00:52
lardmanok, do we have a wiki page about the trademark stuff?00:52
GeneralAntillesMaemo Mapper has an exemption because it was named before the trademark guidelines were put in place.00:53
* lardman apologies for his ignorance00:53
GeneralAntilleslardman, or just see the maemo.org trademark page. :P00:53
GeneralAntillesIt's only been that way since, like, 2006. :P00:53
GeneralAntilles~branding00:53
GeneralAntilles~brand00:53
GeneralAntilles~maemo-brad00:53
GeneralAntilles~maemo-brand00:53
infobotsomebody said maemo-brand was https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_brand00:53
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/00:53
lardmanyeah, I ignore stuff like that usually, same with packaging ;)00:54
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GeneralAntillesAnyway, I don't care much personally00:55
lardmanno, thanks for the pointer00:55
GeneralAntillesit's just that I really want to see it in the Fremantle Stars deal. ;)00:55
GeneralAntillesGet some direct support from Nokia.00:55
lardmanI'll have to dig out my GTK+ docs and get coding some GUI stuff :)00:56
lardmanyuck, GUIs ;)00:56
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GeneralAntillesGet Nokia to do the GUI part.00:59
derfI would argue that they're not _that_ bad, but then you might want me to work on one.01:00
GeneralAntillesHow are the UPC lookups handled?01:00
lardmanat the moment they're not01:00
GeneralAntillesGet Nokia on that, too. ;)01:00
lardman1d stuff works fine for decoding, getting that useable would be good - where useable is lookups + saving stuff, etc.01:01
lardmanthen the next step is to expand and add in derf's QR code01:01
lardmanget the datamatrix working sufficiently fast and stick that in, and for me to add some frontend logic to the pdf417 code and stick that in too01:01
lardman1D is probably the most useful for most people, qr and datamatrix cool, but less often seen (unless you're in Japan of course ;))01:02
Stskeepsneat, i got qemu armel -> x86 with distcc using codesourcery cross compilers working :)01:02
Stskeepsthat's such a prettier solution than scratchbox01:02
lardmanhmm, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects#Proposals_for_Fremantle_Stars is waiting..........01:03
lardmanor rather my browser is waiting for it01:03
GeneralAntillesWhere are those goddamn servers?01:03
Stskeepsa wiki should have very quick response time, honestly01:03
GeneralAntillesI thought we were supposed to be done with this nonsense by now. <_<01:04
lardman770's dsp has caused another reset I guess ;)01:04
* GeneralAntilles is gonna harass tekojo next time he's in.01:04
lardmanwhat are the recommendations for databases?01:04
lardmanwhich one to use for pretty basic stuff?01:05
GeneralAntillesThe status reporting on the changeover has been disturbingly nonexistent or confusing.01:05
Stskeepsthey're probably waiting for the midst of the next SSU01:05
Stskeeps:P01:05
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GeneralAntillesSupposedly we got new servers, and seemingly at least something was moved to them, yet absolutely nothing is any faster.01:05
GeneralAntillesIn fact, things seem to be SLOWER if that's actually possible.01:06
hellwolfIs there any simple directory based music player with a gui01:06
hellwolfI don't want any music database01:06
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lardmanmplayer has a gui iirc01:06
qwerty12_N800doesn't show mp3s01:07
GeneralAntillesCanola does directories01:07
GeneralAntillesJust don't have it index anything.01:07
Stskeepsi'm sure maemo.org runs a 770.. with metalayer-crawler going rampant01:08
hellwolfFor example, I organize my music as author/album, and I constantly change my external sd card for different music, I just want a software don't do any extra index/database for me01:08
derflardman: Maemo Mapper seems to use http://www.sqlite.org/ with some success.01:09
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GAN800hellwolf, like I said, Canola.01:09
hellwolfOk, thanks, let me try01:09
lardmanderf: I've heard people saying that it's heavy in some way and that I should use something else01:09
derfWell, then ask them what else :).01:09
lardmanah, perhaps sqlite is better01:09
GeneralAntillesMassive text file!01:10
lardmanI was probably thinking mysql01:10
derfYeah, I wouldn't use that.01:10
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I'll put it on the list ;)01:10
derfThe important point of sqlite, I think, is the "zero configuration" part.01:10
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lardmansounds good01:11
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lardmanis fennec worth trying?01:18
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GeneralAntillesProbably worth trying01:23
GeneralAntillesNot worth keeping01:23
lardmanright01:23
lardmandid Bilaw quit?01:23
lardmanI was going to suggest lots of devious strategies for routing over usb01:24
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lardmanah, my client must filter those, (or my eyes do)01:24
derfIt _was_ half an hour ago.01:24
lardmanyeah well, I'm laggy :)01:25
lardmanhow's the dsp code coming anyway?01:25
ryoohkiis the new n810 wimax version out now?01:26
* lardman sees sunshine for tomorrow01:26
lardmanderf: that was aimed at you btw01:26
derfI haven't had any more time to play with it.01:27
lardmansame here01:27
derfI did talk to the guy who did the original C55x port.01:27
derfApparently Code Composer Studio has a much more recent version of c55x.h in it, which includes those missing compiler intrinsics.01:27
lardmanah, I see01:28
derfPresumably its compiler also actually expands them into something.01:28
lardmangood excuse anyway :D01:28
derfThe toolchain TI's website that you pointed to is from 2004.01:28
derf*toolchain on01:28
lardmanyep01:28
derfHis header was from 2006.01:29
lardmanI've got a copy of CCS, I should install it and see what it's got in there01:29
derfDoesn't it require Windows?01:29
lardmanyes, I'm using Windows atm (which is why I'm aimlessly talking rather than coding) :)01:29
derfAh, all is made clear.01:29
lardmananyway, enough aimlessness, time to hit the sack01:30
lardmannight chaps01:30
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GeneralAntillesryoohki, yes.01:39
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TokyoDanI installed PC Connectivity/USB Networking on my N810 Diablo. I click on Setup USB Networking in the control panel and I get and IP address on the USB port. I then connect the N810 to my Mac Leopard. But I can't ping that IP address from the Mac. I wonder what I'm doing wrong02:01
GeneralAntillesWhy not use wifi ssh?02:02
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Andy80hi all02:05
Andy80GeneralAntilles, it's so slow...02:05
GeneralAntillesMeh02:05
GeneralAntillesI get ~700-900KB/sec02:05
GeneralAntillesOnly slow when you're shuffling giant movies around.02:06
Andy80GeneralAntilles, wifi ssh has a very low ping.... specially if wifi is power saving in some moments02:06
GeneralAntillesMake your tablet idle on XChat in a semi-active channel.02:06
GeneralAntillesNo more wifi psm issues.02:06
Andy80:)02:06
Andy80I'll try... now I'm writing from my eeepc ;)02:06
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM)02:07
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TokyoDanwifi ssh? is there more info about that anywhere?02:09
GeneralAntillesUm?02:10
GeneralAntillesssh <tablet's IP on your wifi network>02:10
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johnxdoesn't mac os x have a builtin sftp browser in finder?02:11
GeneralAntillesIt does.02:11
johnxTokyoDan, I would recommend you try that for transferring files :)02:11
TokyoDanThanks, I'll try that. But why isn't this mentioned in any of the Eclipse/Pydev/Pluthon docs? They only mention USB Networking to connect to the N810 when xferring/testing/running programs on the N810.02:12
johnxI really don't know02:13
TokyoDanjohnx. builtin sftp browser? How do I use access that?02:13
* johnx makes a raid on longterm memory02:13
GeneralAntillesGo -> Connect to server02:14
TokyoDanI mean I'll try ssh via my wifi.02:14
GeneralAntillessftp://<tablet IP>02:14
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johnxerrr...connect to server, sftp://user@192.168.1.502:14
fie3I'm thinking about getting this bluetooth GPS... any objections? http://www.teletype.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=2558&Category_Code=10002:14
johnxwhere that IP is the wireless IP of your tablet02:14
johnxanyways, usb networking is probably targetted at linux desktop users anyways, as usb networking is really simple over here02:14
TokyoDanok but I don't want to JUST transfer file. I need the ability to run the files as with ssh.02:15
GeneralAntillesfie3, SiRF III kinda sucks02:15
GeneralAntillesEsepcially at that outrageous price.02:15
johnxTokyoDan, you can have both open02:15
johnxssh in a terminal, and sftp for dragging files around02:15
fie3GeneralAntilles, what does it suck at?02:15
GeneralAntillesBeing a GPS chip compared to other, better chips02:15
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.amazon.com/i-Blue-737-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver/dp/B000KH7MZ402:16
GeneralAntillesLike the MTK in that one.02:16
johnxholy craps! $170?02:16
TokyoDanGreat info you guys. Thanks. Sorry for asking such basic questions.02:16
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ryoohkianyone know the cheapest way to get the n810 wimax edition?02:16
johnxno problem TokyoDan02:16
johnxryoohki, steal it?02:16
fie3The one I linked to has 55 hours of battery life.02:16
TokyoDanid ssh is used in a terminal, where is sftp used?02:16
GeneralAntillesfie3, with SiRF III?02:17
johnxTokyoDan, through finder like we said, or in a terminal if you want02:17
GeneralAntillesIt's gotta have an absolutely massive battery for a GPS02:17
GeneralAntillesor that's idle time.02:17
GeneralAntillesEither way, that price is an insane ripoff.02:17
fie3GeneralAntilles, well there's the regular power version which is 10 hours and the "ultra low power"02:17
TokyoDanis sftp in a finder menu?02:17
GeneralAntillesfie3, just get the i-blue 73702:17
fie3TokyoDan, sftp is a CLI app02:17
GeneralAntillesTokyoDan, scrollback.02:18
johnxTokyoDan, or go -> connect to server -> sftp://tablet-ip02:18
fie3GeneralAntilles, what is the battery life on it?02:18
GeneralAntillesGo menu in Finder02:18
TokyoDanOK02:18
GeneralAntillesfie3, 20-26 hours in-use02:18
GeneralAntillesIt'll idle for a week.02:18
fie3GeneralAntilles, ok that's cool.02:18
GeneralAntillesand it uses that Nokia battery that's in everything02:18
johnxTokyoDan, sftp is a protocol that many clients can use.02:18
ryoohkifie3: 55 hours of battery life?!02:18
GeneralAntillesSo batteries are really easy to get ahold of.02:18
fie3ryoohki, that's what it says.02:18
fie3ryoohki, that's why it costs so much... I'm sure you could buy it for cheaper than that though.02:19
johnxGeneralAntilles, 5V 2400mAH battery in that $170 thing02:19
GeneralAntillesThat'd explain it.02:19
johnxthough I don't know any way you can get 5V out of li-ions...02:19
fie3o-O02:19
fie3why wouldn't you be able to get 5v out of liion?02:20
GeneralAntillesThe i-blue uses a 800-1100mAH range battery.02:20
johnxwell,you can get 3.7V with one cell or 7.4V with two cells02:20
johnxwhat do you do? cut a cell in half?02:20
GeneralAntillesNah, we put johnx on a little generator bike to boost the voltage. :P02:21
* johnx rides away on the bike02:21
fie35v is kinda standard... that's what USB uses.02:21
fie3Probably a proprietary sized.02:21
fie3I dunno anyway02:21
johnxI guess so...but it just strikes me as odd02:21
* GeneralAntilles spams wiki categories.02:21
fie3GeneralAntilles, Thanks for the tip. I might pick that up.02:21
GeneralAntillesfie3, it's a really nice GPS unit.02:22
fie3GeneralAntilles, What software do you use?02:22
fie3for GPS02:22
GeneralAntillesGet the 747 if you want built-in tracks.02:22
GeneralAntillesMaemo Mapper02:22
fie3ok02:22
fie3Maemo Mapper is the only app I could get working02:23
mgedminit rules02:23
fie3The maps one that came with it didn't work... I think I tried something else02:23
fie3Maemo mapper seems kinda clunky.02:23
fie3Getting the propper maps and all.. I dunno...02:23
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fie3Using google maps as the repo helped a lot though02:23
fie3Anyway, heading out. Thx later.02:23
GeneralAntillesAlright, categories spammed.02:25
TokyoDanthat worked, I ssh'ed to the N810 as root but I can only see a few directories: .; ..; .ash_history; .bashrc; .gnome2; .profile02:32
TokyoDanI can't see the usual UNIX file system02:33
TokyoDangot it. I was is "/root"02:33
TokyoDannow I can see everything. Thanks you guys. You cured my problems.02:34
TokyoDannow I can get on with Python/PyDec in Eclipse.02:35
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johnxTokyoDan, great! now make us some awesome apps :D02:37
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TokyoDanI'll try. Got an old game that I want to port. Ran on Apple II. Sold 10 copies at a small Apple shop here in Tokyo back in 1984.02:40
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ToyKeeperWell, that's interesting...  after doing "flasher-3.0 --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset", my n810 isn't stuck in a reboot loop any more.  It boots and works.02:49
* ToyKeeper rsyncs / to another machine before the n810 has a chance to break again02:50
johnxheh...that means whatever is failing isn't crucial02:51
ToyKeeperYeah.  I'm not sure exactly which change broke it, but it wasn't anything important.02:51
ToyKeeperI added a /home/user/.Xmodmap file, changed a matchbox config option, and turned off hildon-input-method.02:52
johnxhuh...turned off hildon-input-method? how?02:53
ToyKeeperI'm using SCIM instead.02:53
ToyKeeperAs for how, insert 'exit 0' at the top of /etc/osso-af-init/keyboard.sh02:54
johnxwell, yeah. that's probably it02:54
johnxnokia needs some kind of way to break reboot loops. some kind of "i rebooted automatically 3 times, I should try to make some best effort to start up so user can recover files then reflash."02:55
ToyKeeperReally, a lot of things should probably be re-thought from a different perspective.02:56
ToyKeeperIt seems the design assumption is that it'd never fail, so no effort was spent on giving it a useful failure mode.02:56
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johnxheh...except that the "failure mode prevention" is what causes reboot loops02:56
ToyKeeperHowever, I haven't yet met a NIT user who hasn't gotten into a reboot loop, so the "won't fail" assumption is apparently bunk.02:57
ToyKeeperEvery NIT has a physical Escape key...  it should load console drivers and keyboard drivers early on, and allow Escape to drop into a text mode.02:58
ToyKeeperEven if text input isn't available (770 and n800), at least it'd show what's happening.02:58
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GeneralAntillesYes, that sounds incredibly useful for the average joe.02:59
* mgedmin resists from making a plumber joke03:00
johnxfor the average user a "rescue mode" that consisted of two menu options: press + to dump the internal storage to sd card03:01
ToyKeeperGeneralAntilles: Is seems no worse than the reboot loop, and at least offers the possibility of useful information.03:01
johnxpress - to disable lifeguard reset and reboot03:01
GeneralAntillesStskeeps needs to get crackin' on his cool graphical boot menu. ;)03:01
ToyKeeperThose options do sound more useful.03:02
ToyKeeper... detect boot loops, and on, say, the third boot, offer a function like johnx described.03:02
Mouseyi agree03:09
Mouseya cryptic command line is better than no options at all03:09
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Mouseyi don't know who nokia thinks is buying their tablets, but if i got a command line instead of an infinite boot loop, i'd at least know where to start03:10
johnxassume you're not the average customer if you're in IRC03:11
johnx:)03:11
Mouseyhmph. i'm not convinced normal people would own such a useful device03:12
ToyKeeperYeah, but I'd take something which is useful to 1% of the users over something which is useful to 0%03:12
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Mouseyi've never seen a n810/800/770 in the hands of someone who wasn't capable03:12
Mouseyi mean, maybe i run in small circles.. but still03:12
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johnxvisit itt for about 10 minutes03:13
Mouseytouche03:13
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johnxand that's only the people who know enough and are brave enough to post in that forum03:14
* GeneralAntilles shudders03:14
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ToyKeeperI guess I'd just approach it a bit differently...  keep things the same as a regular linux system except where there's a good reason not to.03:15
Mouseyyou're cynics03:15
johnxToyKeeper, it's a consumer device03:15
Mouseyi'm a consumer03:15
johnxMousey, I'm not a cynic. I just know people who aren't geeks03:16
Mouseythat's why they're on itt03:16
johnxMousey, Don't take this the wrong way: You're a geek :)03:16
Mouseythat doesn't stop me from reading it03:16
Mousey(just posting)03:16
Mousey^_^03:16
Mouseybesides.. maybe viewing it as (strictly) a consumer device is part of the problem03:16
ToyKeeperYes, it is a consumer device.  And the consumer won't know whether their toy is running clean, standards-compliant code or custom spaghetti.  Both can have the same visible UI.03:17
Mouseynokia could change -nothing-, change maemo around a little bit and sell it as a sub-sub-notebook an do just as well among prosumers03:17
ToyKeeperBut I've been finding all sorts of stuff in /etc/init.d and elsewhere which makes me cringe.03:17
mgedminit doesn't look like a notebook03:17
mgedminthey would have to switch to a clamshell design03:17
mgedminor they could sell it as a sub-tablet-pc...03:18
Mouseymgedmin: geeks know a general computing device when they're presented with one03:18
Mouseyit's a PC, it's got a drive, usb, a keyboard, display, network radios03:18
Mouseyit's a freakin' pc in a phone chassis03:18
mgedminand they generally ignore marketing03:18
johnxI'm thinking the majority of people who bought it aren't actually geeks03:18
mgedminI already describe my n810 as "a laptop replacement"03:18
Mouseynot true.. look at the netbook. people pay very close attention to marketing, even geeks03:19
mgedminare you saying that geeks who want a sub-sub-notebook and would buy a n810 if labeled so currently don't buy it because of how it's marketed?03:19
ToyKeeperHeh, I tell people my n810 is a smaller version of the eeePC.  It's not too far from the truth.  :)03:19
glassgeeks pay a lot of attention to geek'coolness', some don't even care about anything else03:19
Mouseyit would cost money to market the n810 from two different angles, the consumer and the geek angles.. but it would pay off. most people i know who are geeks who DISCOVER the n810 are floored by it.. if nokia had only gotten to them before i did03:20
ToyKeeperglass: That's why Apple makes so much money.  They sell tech fashion accessories.  :)03:20
Mouseyblah03:20
glassToyKeeper: yes03:20
Mouseybut what apple makes IS CRAP03:20
Mousey...by geek standards03:20
Mouseyc'mon, could you honestly compare the iPod touch to a n810??03:21
johnxhmm03:21
Mouseyno stinkin' way03:21
ToyKeeperMousey: What Apple makes generally isn't tech, it's fashion.03:21
glassfashion with bit of tech, that tends to stay the same03:21
Mouseyright, which is why nokia should consider their marketing angle incomplete if they're not marketing to tech03:21
johnxMousey, for a certain segment of people the touch is much more useful03:21
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Mouseyjohnx: hahaha. that segment hasn't heard of the n810 over the hype, that's all03:21
glassMousey: you should consider that nokia isn't actually marketing maemo devices at all, compared to marketing other stuff03:21
glassMousey: it's a concept/trial device still.03:22
Mouseyglass: i do. they're a celphone company03:22
johnxMousey, no, they don't have the knowledge/time to deal with reboot loops and installing from the command line03:22
Mouseyglass: well you can still kill a trial device with bad/improper marketing03:22
glassMousey: you can kill more by marketing a concept device too much03:22
johnxanyone who completely discounts the touch/iphone is really missing something...03:23
glassi guess03:23
glassappstore?03:23
glassand the simplicity of that03:23
glassbeing limited brings simplicity03:23
Mouseythat's fine, i'm not saying it should be marketed as a concept device (which it isnt, btw), but i'm saying the marketing should be DIRECTED towards the market which would get the most out of the device AS WELL as whomever else they thing they can reach with the thing03:23
johnxglass, exactly. some people are better off with training wheels on their bikes :)03:24
Mouseys/some/most03:24
glassjohnx: which gets us to why maemo isn't primetime ready.. all the os versions and that03:24
Mouseybut that's not the point.. marketing the n810 to MOST people is the mistake03:24
glassjohnx: not a good target device for commercial stuff03:24
glassanyways, it's moving along03:25
johnxyeah, I always hope that the next API break will be the last03:25
ToyKeeperD'oh.  rsync segfaults03:25
Mouseywhat about QT?03:25
Mousey^_^03:25
johnxnot an API break :)03:25
glassMousey: it's a yet another change03:25
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ToyKeeperQT can die for all I care.  It's been holding back progress on linux PDAs for almost a decade.03:26
Mouseyglass: but relevant to the nseries?03:26
johnxadding this is fine, changing/removing things is where the problem lies03:26
MouseyToyKeeper: i think there's something to your statement03:26
johnxToyKeeper, hmm?03:26
ToyKeeperqtopia, anyway03:26
johnxah, the licensing03:26
johnxyeah, I do agree with you there03:27
ToyKeeperAnd the underlying non-standard tech.03:27
johnxthe great zaurus distro fork03:27
glassjohnx: well, if the consumer can't tell even by looking what device he has what soft he could buy.. it's not good03:27
Mouseywell it's gpl now03:27
glassso still moving03:27
ToyKeeperWithout qtopia, I suspect the zaurus would have been much more successful.03:27
Mouseyblah. zaurus was before its time, imho03:27
glassi don't think lack of sw was zauruses problem03:27
johnxToyKeeper, or with an open qtopia03:27
johnxglass, yeah, it really was03:28
Mouseythe japanese zaurii would have been cooler in the US market03:28
ToyKeeperHaving to rewrite every app specially to run on it is a major problem.03:28
glassjohnx: well it had enough cool soft, imho03:28
Mouseyif the zaurus had had 800x480 and cost half as much, it would have been cooler03:29
johnxit had cool software on the sharp "ROM" (distro) but that was bitrotting03:29
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johnxand it had some neat software on 3 other more modern distros03:29
ToyKeeperWith maemo, I can run any X11 program.  It may not be optimal, but at least it works...   and adding support seems to require only small changes.03:29
johnxbut moving software between distros was so difficult I can only think of a couple apps that were actually cross distro03:29
* Mousey is sad that palco hasn't gotten his tablet yet03:29
glassjohnx: i think the early zaurus problem was lacking bt and btphones and 3g to pair with or wifi03:29
johnxglass, only kinda. wifi cf cards worked fine03:30
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Mouseyspeaking of, has a2dp gotten any easier yet? is it still 50% cpu to run it?03:30
glassjohnx: it was pretty cool with 6310i and bt card when the first flatrate gprs's hit here03:30
glassjohnx: my bro had some bt sd card or somesuch..03:30
glasson his zaurus03:30
glassmuch better than ir'ing03:30
johnxone day I'll finally have unlimited cell phone based inet03:31
Mouseyone day i'll own my own wimax router03:31
glassi'm ircing through 3g now03:31
glassping is plenty enough for irssi03:31
ToyKeeperD'oh.  I'd have unlimited 'net via my cell phone if I could remember its dialup password.03:32
glassjohnx: anyways.. opera on zaurus was amazing by that days standards03:32
glassjohnx: the 50% zoom03:32
johnxit was, and no browser has really filled its shoes03:32
johnxthat was the problem of great software tied to a DOA platform03:32
* Mousey likes micro-b03:33
johnxmicrob is good if you have 128MB of RAM03:33
ds3johnx: isn't the PHS stuff unlimited?03:33
Mouseyso the n900 will need GL-ES03:33
Mouseyand an accelerometer (instead of a weak GPS chip)03:33
johnxds3, depends on your provider. most stuff here is WCDMA now as well03:34
Pavlovthe gps is pretty bad03:34
johnxheh...my phone's AGPS is way better :)03:34
Pavlovi got a signal with the n810 gps once03:34
glassthe agps update was what really made n95's gps usable03:35
Mouseywhat is agps supposed to do anyway? approximate where to begin trying to aquire or something?03:35
johnxthe A is for Assisted03:36
johnxthere's a couple different ways this is accomplished (potentially)03:36
Mouseyoh03:37
johnxbut yeah, basically tell it where it generally is so it knows what satellites to look for in this case03:37
Mouseywell i'd trade it for an accellerometer03:37
Mouseyor GL-ES video03:37
jaskaanother 128 megs of ram03:37
* johnx bets against more RAM03:37
Mouseythey have 16GB MicroSD now.. just make a ramdrive =)03:37
glassmodularity would bring the cost up, even if it would be cool to pimp out your cyberdeck03:37
ToyKeeperMore RAM would be pretty useful...  as would a faster CPU.03:38
Mouseywait, more swap03:38
johnxI bet they keep the GPS too. It would be really usable if it could use the 3G connection for AGPS03:38
Mouseyblah. no 3g!!03:38
glassdumping the gps would be weird03:38
Mouseyi especially enjoy that it's not tied to any specific provider03:38
Mouseyif i want interwebs i'll tether it03:38
johnxthey're saying it won't be with the n900 either03:38
Mouseyor wifi03:38
Mouseythe n900 is in the rumor mill stirring up already?03:39
GeneralAntillesNot rumor03:39
MouseyURL!!03:39
glassn900's been in rumor mill since n80003:39
Mouseyglass: heh03:39
GeneralAntillesHave you been hiding under a rock?03:39
johnxthe rumors are condensing though03:39
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/2008/09/17/dr-ari-jaaksi-on-maemo-5/03:39
MouseyGeneralAntilles: sort of, my n810's been dead since i moved in august.. i just shipped it off. and palco hasn't gotten it yet [accoriding to the check your status page], so i'm kinda worried.03:40
Mouseyblah, maemo schmamemo, i wanna know the hardware specs on the upcoming tablets.. god what i wouldn't have input on -those- design teams03:42
Mousey+give03:42
GeneralAntillesOMAP343003:42
Mousey+to03:42
GeneralAntillesEither 128MB RAM/256MB NAND or 256MB RAM/no NAND03:43
Mouseywow, that's like super ARM SoC ariffic03:43
johnx3G is also a definite03:43
Mouseyrats03:43
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johnxit will be available unlocked (is the general consensus)03:44
MouseyOpenGLES!! w00000t!!!!03:44
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Mouseyhahaha, like american cellular nazis would ever go along with that03:44
johnxMousey, n9503:45
glassMousey: who says you'll have to buy from them03:45
glassMousey: every nokia 3g phone basically is available unlocked03:45
Mouseyit means i have to pick a provider!03:45
johnxor not use the 3G!03:45
Mouseyi can't buy my own 3g router03:45
Mouseyok, ok, now i just sound like a libertarian crazy, sorry03:45
glassMousey: don't use 3g then03:45
johnxthey're not gonna drop wifi03:45
Mouseyyay03:45
johnxthey'd be idiots to drop wifi03:46
glassMousey: you buy your home internet from someone probably too03:46
Mouseyglass: only the unfiltered feed with static IPs, and no protocols.. even run my own DNS and mail server03:46
glass3g is very very useful to use03:46
glassunless you never leave your house03:46
Mouseyif you have the $$s and the 3 years to be locked in03:46
glassin case..  why buy a mobile device03:47
johnxif you already have the device you can just pay by the month03:47
* GeneralAntilles already has 3g.03:47
Mouseythe n810 is the single most useful laptop i've ever owned03:47
glassjohnx: yeah..03:47
Mouseysee, that's the thing, if i already own the device, why do i have to keep paying?03:47
glassfor the data service03:47
glassdoh03:47
Mouseyblah03:47
johnxMousey, what are you talking about?03:47
Mouseybuild my own internet03:47
johnxahaha03:48
* Mousey waves fist 03:48
glasswell have fun in your own internet03:48
johnxjust pull that DSL line out of the wall :)03:48
Mousey^^03:48
GeneralAntillesThen sell access to other suckers. :P03:48
MouseyWDS, FTW!03:48
glassi got my own at home. too bad the only warez on it is mine03:48
GeneralAntillesjohnx, somebody needs to sell me about 400 miles of ethernet cable.03:48
Mouseyok ok, i get the bit about that i'm crazytalking03:48
johnxMousey, WDS to someone who is willing to pay for inet access?03:48
GeneralAntillesThen Il'l be set.03:48
johnxGeneralAntilles, and a switch to place every ~100 meters?03:49
GeneralAntillesThey'll be solar powered.03:49
Mouseyfine, it'll have 3g, i just wish i could get a model without it so i don't have to pay for the engineering03:49
GeneralAntillesPut 'em in little solar hamster balls03:49
GeneralAntillesSo they'll roll around03:49
johnxMousey, that's what I said :)03:49
glassMousey: ..you'd pay extra for to have it engineered off?03:49
glassMousey: like i said, modularity would be cool but it's expensive03:49
GeneralAntillesWhat about shot off?03:49
Mouseyglass: i'll be paying extra for a feature i won't use, is what i'm asaying03:49
GeneralAntillesI'd pay extra to see Quim take it off with a 30-0603:50
glassMousey: besides, you don't even know what the device will be03:50
glassMousey: you could buy a pandora03:50
Mouseymeh03:50
johnxthat's what I did :)03:50
glassMousey: which would be more or less n900.. without 3g03:50
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johnxit was really convenient timing to see the specs and approximate release date of the n900 :)03:51
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Mouseyblah ipod ripoff03:51
Mouseyno linux03:51
Mouseyno keyboard?03:51
glassMousey: http://openpandora.org/  you could be pretty happy with it03:51
lcukliqbase 0.1.5 is up on my site, its uploading to extras now, and should end up in extras itself tomorrow if the news is good03:51
lcukextras-devel ^03:52
glassMousey: pandora has kb, game controls.. opengl es03:52
Mouseyoh03:52
Mouseyblah03:52
Mouseyit's a DS!03:52
glassso read your nerd news03:52
Mouseynah, nokia is still 10 cuter03:52
johnxthat's true...the pandora looks like it was designed by some guys in a garage ... oh, wait03:53
glassyou don't know that yet do you? or are there photos of n900 floating around?03:53
Mouseyblah clamshell03:53
GeneralAntillesglass, yes, but we're not allowed to let you see them. :P03:53
GeneralAntillesYeah, I'm not a fan of the clamshell.03:54
glassGeneralAntilles: i guess i could go check pro forum but then i'd have to shut up :\03:54
Mouseyglass: contemptuous much?03:54
johnxI wish it was a convertible tablet, but I'll live03:54
glassMousey: you just seem to have the first love phase of owning something cool03:54
johnxanyways, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts the n900 will look slicker than the pandora03:55
GeneralAntillesjohnx, a brick looks slicker than the pandora.03:55
glassjohnx: yeah but i'm not too trusting on nokia to put a decent pad on it :\  and buttons that would be nice for gaming03:55
johnxyes, but a brick doesn't have an omap3 :)03:55
Mouseyglass: maybe, but i'm retardedly picky. the n810 is literally the best handheld on the market.. until GL-ES was established as a standard. now i have high hopes for nokia's next nit03:55
Mouseybut we'll see i guess03:55
GeneralAntillesWell . . . it _could_. :D03:55
Mouseythe pandora isn't it03:55
johnxglass, oh definitely not. I don't think anyone in nokia has ever even used a decent d-pad in their whole lives03:56
GeneralAntillesSomehow a bigger center button is better in their minds.03:56
glassjohnx: or even had the bright idea of not wiring the pads so that they're 4way only..03:56
Mouseywill the n900 be the famous 2 steps forward 1 step back nokia usually does to us?03:56
GeneralAntillesMousey, no telling until we see it.03:57
Mouseyi'm patient AND open minded =)03:57
johnxglass, I can live with that, but my n800 d-pad is already close to useless...meanwhile my nes d-pads still work great03:57
GeneralAntillesA lot of that seems to stem from the "make it appeal to idiots" plan they've got.03:57
Mouseyyet i still find room in my heart for cynicism03:57
GeneralAntillesWhich may very well kill the platform's appeal for me.03:57
Mouseywhich goes back to dual-marketing03:57
Mouseyi donno. i'd buy another n810 in a heartbeat. now i'm excited to know the next generation isn't toooooo far off03:59
* lcuk is happy with current gen03:59
johnxMousey, summer 2009? not far off?03:59
* Mousey googles liqbase03:59
lcukliqbase.net03:59
* GeneralAntilles looks.03:59
GeneralAntillesStill lame. . . . :P03:59
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lcukim really really sorry if i manage to fill up peoples computers04:00
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lcukits got the photo stuff in04:00
lcukscreenshots and camera photos are saved whenever you like04:00
lcukthere is only 1 instruction on the user interface for camera: "smile and press [fullscreen]"04:01
lcukgnite anyway :)04:02
GeneralAntillesnight04:02
johnx'night lcuk. I'll take a look at it a bit later04:02
Mouseyrats04:02
Mouseyits not what i thot it was04:02
Mouseynite04:02
Mouseyjohnx: not in cosmic terms04:02
lcukwaht did u think it was04:02
Mouseyi didn't know what it was, just what i hoped it was04:03
Mouseyit actually looks pretty cool tho04:03
Mouseyi'm looking for xrandr basically04:03
Mouseythere's been talk about it04:03
Mouseybut i haven't done enough homework yet04:03
johnxhttp://sse2.net/rotate04:03
Mousey(mostly cuz tablet's off to the repair despot)04:03
Mouseyty04:03
johnx:)04:04
GeneralAntillesUp to date: http://outpo.st/rotate04:04
johnxah. didn't know it moved04:04
GeneralAntillesWell, the .installs aren't quite working04:04
johnxdefine "not quite"04:05
* Mousey votes on patch04:05
GeneralAntillesApplication manager wont let us replace system packages with ones from another repo.04:05
johnxah04:05
GeneralAntillesSo, the only way to make rotation "easy" is osv-c.04:05
GeneralAntillesWhich somebody still needs to get to work on since jott dropped off the face of the planet.04:06
* GeneralAntilles moved the 360 into the other room to keep the noise down.04:06
shaprFan noise?04:07
GeneralAntillesand DVD drive noise.04:07
Mouseybbfn04:07
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GeneralAntillesNow I can play in one room and it can make noise in the other. :D04:07
shaprI just got a PS3, it's pretty quiet. It makes a lot of heat though.04:07
johnxheh04:07
GeneralAntillesDoesn't he mean ttfn?04:07
shaprUbuntu 7.10 isn't overwhelming on the PS3...04:07
* shapr tries Yellow Dog...04:07
johnxI had a different problem with my wii: It wants to flash this god-awful bright light on me while I'm trying to sleep04:08
shaprOh yeah, I hate blue LEDs in my bedroom.04:08
johnxas long as they're either on or off I can cope...it's when they're flashing in a totally irregular way that it messes with me04:08
shaprI don't like 'em on.04:09
jaskablue leds.. *shiver*04:09
jaskawhy do they stick em everywhere.. bright as hell too04:09
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johnxI used to have a super bright green LED on an old case04:10
GeneralAntillesHaha04:10
GeneralAntillesALIEN INVASION!04:10
shaprei mitään04:10
johnxit actually shined like a flashlight beam on the wall across the room from it04:10
jaskaive removed several from equipment04:10
GeneralAntillesSeriously, the first time a message came in at night I almost shat myself.04:10
GeneralAntillesThankfully, you can turn the flashing message notification off.04:10
jaskahaha04:10
johnxyeah04:10
johnxdug through the menus to find it04:11
jaskayeah.. throbbing light.. alien attack!04:11
GeneralAntillesSince Nintendo's all the way over there in Lala-land, the system updates always come in at 3 in the morning.04:11
johnxafter the third time an ingame character spammed my real console04:11
GeneralAntillesjaska, you don't know the half of it.04:11
shaprMy computer case has a bright blue light behind a six inch fan.. I keep meaning to take my leatherman to that evil flickering light.04:11
GeneralAntillesHehe04:11
GeneralAntillesI opened up my G5 to clean out the dust bunnies a few weeks back04:12
jaskaone of my power supplies has one.. need to remove it someday.. putting bluetack on them works too04:12
GeneralAntillesIt's got a bright red LED on the mobo that kicks on when the baffling comes off04:12
jaskaterminator04:12
GeneralAntillesShining on the radiator it looked like the metal was rusted04:12
GeneralAntillesI thought I had sprung a leak.04:12
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jaskanext theyll start putting 500mW blue lasers as power indicators on things04:13
shaprhaha04:13
shaprAnd they'll draw logos on your walls04:13
jaskaand retinas04:13
shaprYa know, I think that will really happen :-(04:13
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GeneralAntillesThe light pollution from my equipment is getting worse than the light pollution outside.04:13
shaprYeah, same here.04:13
jaskaditto04:13
johnxoutside is still worse04:13
johnxstreetlight right outside the window :/04:14
shaprI have five laptops, two internet tablets, three monitors, a desktop, a digital music player, a phone... hmm04:14
shaprAnd I'm not telling you my address...04:14
GeneralAntillesYeah, they just replaced a big floodlight on the side of the building outside my window04:14
johnxGeneralAntilles, when will you get a chance to shoot out the new one?04:15
jaskabb guns \o/04:15
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I've seriously considered it.04:15
GeneralAntillesIt illuminates a patch of soil behind a bunch of trees that nobody ever walks through.04:16
johnxwell duh...because if they walked through it everyone would see them cause of the light04:16
mgedminbut think how much you can save on electricity costs!04:16
mgedminyou don't need internal lights04:16
johnxturn that light off and people will walk through there at all hours of the night!04:17
GeneralAntillesIt's blissfully dark out there otherwise.04:17
johnxdarkness is where terrorists hide...and ninjas :S04:17
GeneralAntillesSo it'll be my new shooting gallery? :P04:19
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GeneralAntilleshttp://linuxdevices.com/news/NS3279545763.html05:16
johnxthank. $*$&%ing. god.05:17
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* GeneralAntilles waits patiently for the Maemo/S60 software to come out.05:18
johnxand hopefully they'll keep Qt more mainline compatible than what they did to gtk05:19
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GeneralAntillesHehe, well, as Nokia _is_ mainline Qt now. . . .05:23
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johnxas long as it's the same on desktop linux and nit/s60 it's fine by me05:24
johnxI just hope they don't screw around enough to make people fork it...05:24
* GeneralAntilles wonders who the first person will be to get acclamations and honors for starting work on osv-c. . . .05:27
GeneralAntilles^ from me.05:27
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lopznight05:59
johnx'night lopz05:59
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moontigeryah know... if they want us to use garage.maemo.org for hosting and svn they *really* should make sure it actually works06:34
* moontiger mumbles and curses06:34
GeneralAntillesWell, it works.06:35
GeneralAntillesIt just works slowly.06:35
moontigeryah ... and it times out and fails to resolve06:37
* moontiger sighs06:37
GeneralAntillesI'm gonna harass tekojo about the server upgrades whenever I see him next.06:38
johnxturning off js makes such a huge performance difference O_o06:38
johnxsomehow I didn't really understand how much of an effect it had on average pages06:39
moontigeranyways the phonehome thingy is working nicely06:39
moontiger:)06:39
GeneralAntillesMicroB, johnx?06:40
johnxmidori actually06:40
johnxmidori on a zaurus06:40
summatusmentisjohnx: I keep forgetting you still actively use a zaurus06:41
* summatusmentis needs to get rid of his06:41
johnxactively use might be a little strong06:41
johnxI actively tinker06:41
summatusmentiswell, for me it was the same thing :)06:41
moontigerwow the n810 camera *really* gets noisy in low light06:41
summatusmentismoontiger: yes it does06:41
johnxyeah, i actively used it for a while...but web is a killer app now, so more tinkering and less using :/06:42
moontigerdid u guys check out the "phonehome" project ?06:42
johnxnot yet, but I don't plan on having my n800 stolen...06:43
GeneralAntillesHehe06:43
moontigerhehe well it works and its kinda cool ... lots more to do on it ... but if it was stolen u would have nice big mugshots of the thief06:43
moontigerthats funny06:43
summatusmentisnice big incredibly noisy mugshots06:44
johnxthey'd have to figure out how to get the camera out first :)06:44
moontigerjohnx, ??06:44
johnxn800 = pop-out camera06:44
moontigerahhhhhhhhh really?06:44
moontigeri have an n81006:44
johnxyup06:44
johnxand mine is probably sealed shut with sand and pocket lint06:44
moontigerso it logs gps data and images06:45
moontigerso not much use on an n800 really :|06:45
moontigerim going to add google maps or osm plotting via the gps data too06:45
johnxit would be fun for surveiling yourself actually :)06:46
moontigerit is kinda cool ... and it makes a good route tracker (with gps)06:46
moontigerim just doing the web stuff but i think i will make the config manageable via the website and send the config updates down to the device when it needs to06:47
johnxwhen I had a macbook for work I had a little script that actually took a webcam pic evertime it opened. it was actually fun seeing what I looked like in the morning before I was really awake06:47
moontigerhehe i get that when i brush my teeth06:47
moontigerif only the damn camera was better06:48
johnxyou brush your teeth with the n810?06:48
moontigerlol06:49
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moontigeryes ... it uses usb host mode and controls my usb toothbrush06:50
moontiger:)06:50
johnxactually, I kinda like the idea of a roomba for teeth :D06:50
johnxit could just crawl in your mouth at random times in the night06:50
moontigerhahaha ... a small robot that crawls around in ur mouth while u sleep06:51
johnxwell, you'd start out sleeping...06:51
moontigerright06:51
moontigerwell i used to have pet rats06:51
moontigerand one of them had a thing for licking teeth06:51
johnxO_o06:51
johnxthat's ... quite unfortunate06:51
moontigerso some nights i would wake up and find it with my lower lip pulled back in its lil claws and it would be licking my teeth06:52
johnxdid you not feed it enough?06:52
moontigernot the best way to wake up really06:52
moontigeroh yah it had food stashed all over06:52
moontigerit just liked it06:52
moontigeri got used to it and it didnt bother me too much06:52
GeneralAntillesThat's creepy as hell.06:53
moontigerbut the first night a gf came to stay it was... unfortunate06:53
johnxi can only imagine06:53
moontigerno ... no you cant06:53
moontiger:|06:53
johnxoh06:53
moontigerstill i figured it was a good test to see if the gf was too germ-phobic or not06:54
moontigershe passed ... but only just06:54
GeneralAntillesI can only imagine how a rat figures out it likes licking teeth.06:56
moontigeryah i wondered about that too06:57
GrackleYikes, I'd be afraid that I would accidentally bite its head off at night.06:57
moontigerno they are pretty smart06:57
GrackleAlso, why does your rat have access to your face at odd hours?06:57
GeneralAntillesOr roll over on the poor thing and have it bite your lip off.06:58
GeneralAntillesHaha06:58
moontigerthey live free range in my apt06:58
moontigerlive = lived06:58
GrackleI've got some mice that live free range in my walls.06:58
GeneralAntillesLitter trained?06:58
GrackleUninvited.06:58
moontigeri dont have rats anymore06:58
moontigervery clean06:58
moontigernever made a mess anywhere but their lil house06:58
GrackleThat's cool.06:58
moontigerthese were so cute ... paris and texas06:58
moontigerand they would hunt the roaches at night if there were any07:00
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moontigeri was thinking (with phonehome) to allow users to mark certain pictures as public so others could see if they wanted07:07
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GeneralAntillesLot of SDK installs seem to be failing.07:36
`0660tell me about it07:40
* GAN800 makes a note to harass marcell, too.07:41
Luriathere is still an up to date vm debian/sdk image?07:42
`0660having to use vmware to avoid cumbersome installation doesn't lower the threshold to start that much07:45
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michael__os tjere amupme jere07:54
michael__is there anyone here07:55
johnxI'm here07:56
johnxdo I count?07:56
summatusmentisI'm here, but I'm not of any use07:56
summatusmentisSargun: stop following me :)07:56
michael__is this the chatroom for linux applications07:56
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johnxit's the channel for talking about nokia internet tablets and their software07:57
Sargunsummatusmentis, o.O?07:57
Sargunhuh07:57
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summatusmentisSargun: #openafs :-P07:57
michael__then why was dialcentral on the website07:58
SargunOh...07:58
summatusmentisI run into too many of the same people in the same channels07:58
Sargunheh...07:58
summatusmentisyou were asking for help with setting up a cell a few days ago07:58
michael__http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2335707:59
michael__http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/d/dialcentral/07:59
GeneralAntillesmichael__, what does that have to do with anything?07:59
Sargunsummatusmentis, its an issue with our kernel.07:59
michael__i saw those links. trying to find the latest software07:59
summatusmentisSargun: :-/08:00
michael__i'm confused now08:00
michael__i just saw this as a link to maemo08:00
michael__and the website is maemo08:00
michael__and i only saw the 0.8.1 on the one page but the other page list 0.8.2 but no download08:01
michael__is there someone who can help me08:01
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johnxmichael__, just grab the one from maemo.org . The version in extras-devel is for testing. It's not stable yet08:02
johnxWhen it is considered stable it will be put in extras08:02
johnx~extras08:02
infobotmethinks extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras08:02
michael__that's what i thought but then it lists svs and i don't know where to go for that08:03
johnxsvs?08:03
michael__http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23357&page=308:04
michael__look at the very bottom post08:04
johnxsvn?08:05
michael__(I think) svn is fully up to date now. I just pulled the two line change from extras-devel for thumbscrolling. I also fixed an issue with the contacts view.08:05
johnxright, that's not released yet08:05
michael__that's a copy and paste from that page08:05
michael__but if svn is updated now where do you go to get it08:05
johnxyou don't unless you want to compile it yourself08:05
johnxit's not released yet08:05
michael__i want to try it but where do i get it08:06
michael__he doesn't list where to get it08:06
johnxprobably on his garage page?08:06
michael__which is where?08:06
johnxmaybe ask google?08:06
GeneralAntilleshttps://garage.maemo.org/projects/gc-dialer/08:07
johnxhonestly I don't know where it is. your guess is as good as mine08:07
johnxmichael__, do you have scratchbox installed to compile it?08:07
michael__ok. i thought someone would know here08:08
johnxmichael__, GeneralAntilles just gave you a link08:08
michael__i went to that page and it's a real old version 0.508:08
johnxlook at the scm repository link at the bottom08:08
johnxmichael__, do you know how to compile programs?08:08
michael__oh. i saw on the bottom08:09
michael__clicked and page not found08:09
johnxuhm, it works here08:09
johnx"scm repository" at the bottom of the page08:10
michael__isn't there a way to automatically compile in linux08:10
johnxnot really, no08:11
michael__and i don't know anything about the .py files08:11
johnxdefinitely not in this case08:11
johnxright, that's my point. Just wait until someone compiles 0.8.2 and releases it08:11
michael__ok i'll wait.08:12
johnxif you want to learn how to compile things for maemo, install the SDK (software development kit)08:13
johnxhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.1/INSTALL.txt08:13
johnx~sdk08:13
infobotSoftware Development Kit08:13
johnxnot helpful infobot :P08:14
summatusmentis'night all08:14
johnx'night summatusmentis08:14
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GAN800~skd-41 is http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.1/INSTALL.txt08:14
infobotokay, GAN80008:14
* GAN800 is so glad we don't have a java client.08:15
summatusmentisoh, fyi johnx. I may have mentioned this before, if you need a zaurus 3200, I've got one for sale :-P08:15
johnxso many ~'s to remember O_o08:15
johnxsummatusmentis, I'll think about it, but don't save it for me08:15
GAN800Bind some more so you have bigger targets to hit. ;)08:15
summatusmentisjohnx: kk, bed for real this time :)08:15
* GAN800 still misses _Monkey every so often.08:16
johnxthe SDK install.txt always scares people off ...08:16
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solmumahamorning09:07
rkabirhello09:07
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Stskeepsjohnx: made a neat trick yesterday.. debian armel running in qemu, and distccing to a x86 with a arm cross compiler chain09:39
johnxinteresting, was it hard to get distcc setup?09:40
Stskeepswell took some tinkering, but it ended up being ln -s 'ing all arm-none-linux-gnueabi-X to some_path/X and remembering ln'ing cc to gcc.. and then simply PATH=/some_path:$PATH distccd --daemon -a 0.0.0.0/0909:41
Stskeeps-909:41
Stskeepsit requires same gcc version on both though09:41
Stskeepsas in, 4.3.2 and 4.3.209:41
johnxwell that's pretty awesome09:42
johnxwas it hard to get dpkg-buildpackage to pickup distcc?09:42
StskeepsCC=distcc dpkg-buildpackage09:42
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johnxnice09:42
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johnxit's too bad my old 5500 zaurus can't run eabi binaries, otherwise I'd run builds on that distcc'ed to my desktop :/09:43
Stskeepsfor "joe" package, dpkg-buildpackage was 4m29s with distcc, 9m21s without09:43
johnxfor something so small a big part of that was probably configure and linking and packaging as opposed to CC time09:43
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Stskeepsyeah09:44
solmumahajohnx: still finding use for collie? :)09:44
Stskeepsconfigure+linking was done in emu, compiling on distcc09:44
johnxsolmumaha, not so much lately :/09:44
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gomiamI guess this question has been asked time and time again (but I can't find an answer on Google, so...): is there a way to use TKIP on a N800 (OS2008)?09:45
johnxgomiam, as in wpa-psk?09:45
Stskeepsgomiam: i think that's supported honestly09:46
gomiamjohnx: no, it's an authenticated network09:47
gomiamStskeeps: I know it seems to be supported on WPA209:47
gomiambut this network is supposed to be just WPA09:47
gomiamon Windows a 802.1x client called SecureW2 is installed, and on Linux it is configured as a WPA-EAP network with CCMP TKIP09:49
gomiamoh, and the EAP uses TTLS.09:49
gomiamI have found a couple of tutorials on setting up "eduroam" (the interuniversity wifi network)09:50
Stskeepsoh, that's a EAP network, that's a different thing than traditional WPA :P09:50
gomiamand each one recommends different procedures... which don't work for me09:50
gomiamStskeeps: :P:P09:50
gomiamis it WPA2 then?09:50
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gomiamI'm reading a working Linux configuration file and it has "proto=WPA" instead of "proto=RSN", which would be used on WPA209:51
johnxwhen most home and small-office users talk about wpa and wpa2 they're talking about wpa-psk and wpa2-psk09:51
Stskeepsgomiam: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/index.php/Eduroam , scroll down to "n810 tablet"09:51
johnxand I believe tkip is used as the encryption method behind wpa-psk (not positive)09:51
gomiamjohnx: ok, ok. I didn't make that clear enough =:-)09:51
gomiamStskeeps: tried that already, failed09:52
johnxand we also came into the conversation with our own assumptions :)09:52
Stskeepsgomiam: yeah, okay, look into what cert your uni has09:52
gomiammmm... I'll try that angle. Calling network people... XD09:52
Stskeepsor look in your securew2 thing09:53
gomiamunavailable09:53
gomiamStskeeps: SecureW2 just provides CCMP/TKIP for Windows.09:53
Stskeepsmmk09:53
Stskeepsand you followed the http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/index.php/Eduroam#Setting_up_Eduroam steps too?09:54
gomiamanyway, I guess I'll have to hunt down another operator that supposedly was able to connect his N770 to the network09:54
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gomiamStskeeps: yup, I even tried to do it the "wrong" way just in case, to no avail.09:54
Stskeepsmk09:54
Stskeepsdunno - we (thank god) have multiple edu networks, eduroam, wifi portal, vpn..09:55
gomiamoh, I have an open university wifi too (well, through a portal, but you get my meaning). But it is too restricted09:55
gomiamI can't chat from it, and I'm too lazy to set a VPN over ssh XD09:55
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pyhimysgomian: screen in another machine09:56
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Stskeepsgomiam: ssh -D is a good tool09:56
Stskeeps:P09:57
gomiammmm... it might work. But I would rather be able to use eduroam.09:58
gomiamnever mind, I'll keep trying later XD09:58
jinhi all  ,  can i use object c in scratchbox?09:59
jini can't install the gunstep09:59
johnxjin, I know the debian guys got gobjc running on armel, and they appear to have a gnustep build but it was somewhat flakey on armel last time I tried it10:01
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jinhi johnx , do  you means that you can install gnustep in scratchbox but it's unstable?10:04
johnxI installed it on an n800 running debian10:05
johnxI haven't tried to install it in scratchbox10:05
johnxthe big thing is I don't know if anyone has compiled a cross-compiling version of gobjc10:06
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CityLightshi all10:07
CityLightscan anyone here compile me something for the maemo enviroment?10:08
CityLightsI need noip2.c to be build for maemo10:08
mgedminwhich version?10:09
ptmanCityLights: just download a maemo development virtual machine10:09
mgedminchinook, diablo, or what?10:09
CityLightsits a dns client and if free at http://www.no-ip.com/support/guides/update_clients/setting_up_linux_update_client.html10:09
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CityLightsdiablo pls10:09
CityLightsas this is a single .c file10:10
ptmanCityLights: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/10:10
CityLightseven the makeFile is simple10:10
CityLightsthis allow me to get a dns name to alows point to my nokia10:10
mgedminthat could be useful, when your screen breaks...10:11
mgedminunless you're behind NAT10:11
johnxStskeeps, ok, tried out illume: looks nice except the launcher idles at ~90% CPU usage10:11
melmothCityLights: i can give it a try. hold on10:11
CityLightsthanks10:11
mgedminCityLights: here you are10:13
CityLightswii10:13
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mgedminor, if dcc send doesn't work for you, http://mg.pov.lt/noip2-maemo-diablo10:14
CityLightsmgedmin: thanks10:15
CityLightsgot to go10:15
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melmothheuu, slight problem with my httpd server; hold on10:17
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Stskeepsjohnx: always a good power saver..10:21
Stskeepsjohnx: and i got debian going on my works beagleboard now :)10:21
johnxgood deal10:22
Stskeepsand i might have navigated myself into a position where i get wage if i do changes to deblet (and is able to release it) needed for performance/power saving etc for my work platforms/prototyping :)10:22
Stskeepsso there might appear some (C) my uni some places10:23
Stskeepsso that was a decent day yesterday10:23
Stskeeps:P10:23
johnxthat's great!10:23
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johnxit'll still be open source, right? or will your Uni make it shareware?10:23
Stskeepsopen source10:23
Stskeepsthey have no interest in it beyond having a platform to build prototypes upon10:24
Stskeepsok, off to work10:24
johnxalright10:24
johnxcongratulations :)10:24
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qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9879/screenshot08sj2.png :p10:44
aquatixgood morning all10:44
qwerty12_N800hey aquatix10:44
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RST38hqwerty <-- evil10:45
RST38hdestroying British myths in front of our eyes10:46
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qwerty12_N800lol, nokia put the message there, i just used my creative skills on it :p10:46
johnxqwerty12_N800, that's pretty awesome10:46
Sargunhehe10:47
X-Fadeqwerty12_N800: That is one messed up desktop ;)10:47
aquatixqwerty12_N800: lol10:47
RST38hqwerty: Does making screen black save energy though? =)10:47
qwerty12_N800X-Fade, it's usually cleaner but i wanted to get the rss reader in :p10:48
qwerty12_N800RST38h, easier on my eyes :p10:48
RST38hah 8)10:48
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qwerty12_N800johnx, yeah :). that's the nice thing about nokia using locales even with closed source stuff10:49
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lcukqwerty12_N800, would you do me a favour please :$ could you try to break liqbase for me (0.1.5) if you cant im gonna promote it later11:00
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, lol, i can try11:01
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lcukand you can find the new easter egg :)11:01
qwerty12_N800yum... easter egg's :)11:02
aquatix!coffee11:03
qwerty12_N800povbot's boring compared to infobot11:03
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GeneralAntillestekojo, what's the word on the servers?11:06
GeneralAntillesThings seem slower than ever lately.11:06
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, can i ask that you replace "maemo-select-menu-location liqbase.desktop" in the postinst with: http://slexy.org/view/s2qEhC4Xie . that makes it so that when you upgrade, it doesn't ask you  where to put it in the menu. if this is a 1st time install, the menu location dialog will show up like normal11:12
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GAN800qwerty12, mind running a patch campaign with that? ;)11:13
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Stskeepsyeah, that'd be a killer bug report on bugzilla.. :>11:16
qwerty12_N800Hmm, I don't have the time to find packages that do that :p11:16
qwerty12_N800I know yerga asked on iTT for the canola guys to do that but got no response.11:17
GAN800qwerty12, put together a generic patch and I'll slap on an email template we can fire off to maintainers as we note them?11:17
qwerty12_N800Don't know if you can do generic patches (thinking about diff) but the general rule is to replace any "maemo-select-menu-location whatever.desktop" with the stuff on that slexy link11:20
qwerty12_N800^ in the postinst11:20
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* GAN800 ponders a 'Stock maintainer harasment emails' wiki page.11:21
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* johnx <3 aptitude11:25
JaffaMorning, all11:26
qwerty12_N800johnx, +1. shame cwidgets goes all weird in scratchbox/11:26
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woglindehi11:34
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rkabiranyone have any ideas on how to reduce the latency when using a bluetooth keyboard?11:45
johnxturn off word prediction11:46
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Guest9724_102hi11:49
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RST38hmoo, johnx, jaffa11:59
RST38hrkabir: There is a bug filed for that. Go and confirm it12:00
RST38hjohnx: word prediction does slow things a bit but keyboards are dead slow even if you turn it off. usb keyboards too12:00
rkabirRST38h: thanks, i'll take a look12:00
rkabiryeah, i don't see that problem on my nokia phone12:00
rkabirjust on the tablet12:00
RST38hGo raise hell: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335912:01
RST38hTell them your kbd model, etc - so that they do not blame it on a particular keyboard make12:01
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aquatixooh12:03
* aquatix adds his issue with his iGo bt keyboard12:04
RST38hDon't be shy, complain12:05
RST38hBecause right now it looks like this bug is ignored (and it really prevents keyboard usage, at least for me)12:05
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aquatixhm, except that i have more issues with chars being laggy and repeated12:07
RST38hare you losing chars as well?12:07
RST38hhow about this one: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3358 ?12:08
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aquatixthere12:11
aquatixposted my own piece12:11
lcukqwerty12_N800, ok will do, thanks12:12
qwerty12_N800cool, thanks12:13
lcuksorry for delayed  reactions..12:13
lcukbet u never found the new egg though12:13
qwerty12_N800nope :p12:14
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* qwerty12_N800 will continue to search :p12:15
lcukwell its the most requested thing in liqbase to date :P12:15
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lcukits clunky but it works, anyway im off for a bit12:16
* qwerty12_N800 better read the thread because i have no idea what it is :p12:16
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voodooanyone in here use twitter and has been able to get teh os2008 rss reader to accept the rss feed from your twitter subscriptions?12:26
voodooi can add individual channels one at a time but thats a major pain12:26
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RST38hAh, the leave-charger-plugged-in wars on iTT!12:47
* RST38h loves those12:47
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macoutea finnish magazine published an article today about fennec12:54
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macoutehas it improved from the first beta?12:54
macoute(or alpha, whatever was it)12:54
X-Fademacoute: It was pre-alpha before, alpha now ;)12:55
X-FadeIt works so you can get the idea, but performance is still something that needs to be worked on. (I'm very kind there ;)12:56
yacoobdo standard expansions work in fennec?12:57
yacoobthat would be only thing that would appeal to me - working gears on tablet12:57
X-Fadeyacoob: They have been turned off for now.12:57
X-Fadeyacoob: But I think they plan to enable them later.12:57
yacooboh well. And the installation footprint was, what, 25M?12:59
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macouteX-Fade: but have they fixed the horrible UI? :)13:11
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Stskeepsi vote for bundyo's tear :P13:13
Stskeepsor what his nick was again13:13
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qwerty12_N800bundyo like you said :p13:14
qwerty12_N800well, it has the advantage of being able to let you use the hildon keyboard :p13:15
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, btw, in debian, is it recommmended or suggested packages that are now going to be installed by default due to apt changes?13:17
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: recommended13:17
Stskeepsafaik13:17
Stskeepsi hate that really13:17
qwerty12_N800ok, thanks13:17
qwerty12_N800yep, same here :/13:17
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i found out i could distcc from a tablet / qemu armel to a x86 codesourcery crosscompiler13:20
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: and it would actually work13:20
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: speeds up builds by 50-60% without scratchbox insanity13:20
qwerty12_N800hah, wicked13:20
Stskeepsand this was just on a small package (joe)13:21
Stskeepsit just requires gccs are same version obviously13:22
qwerty12_N800is this how you plan to compile optimised deblet packages?13:22
Stskeepstwo beagleboards and a distcc, yeah13:23
* qwerty12_N800 answers that one with a thunk as he realises the obvious answer is yes13:23
lcukStskeeps, now THAT sounds like an improvement, can you get distcc building packages for you as well/13:23
lcukand making brews?13:23
qwerty12_N800heh, nice13:24
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Stskeepslcuk: CC=distcc dpkg-buildpackage was what i tested13:24
Stskeeps(on debian, not maemo.)13:24
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lcukpoo!13:24
Stskeepssince dpkg-buildpackage is awkward on maemo13:24
lcukneed to try in maemo lol13:25
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Stskeepsif you get gcc and same codesourcery toolchain matching gcc version13:25
Stskeepsthen you can cc using distcc probably13:25
lcukyeah i know that one, its "simpler" to commit svn move into vmware grab and package and reup ;)13:25
Stskeepsso you can code on tablet, test, and instead of gcc run distcc13:26
Stskeeps:P13:26
* qwerty12_N800 would say using linux w/out the vm would be simpler :p 13:26
lcukwell im starting to want to have liqbase available on multiple sources at the same time13:26
Stskeepsright, got a meeting coming up13:27
Stskeepsbbl13:27
* lcuk is outgrowing his little tablet egg13:27
lcukcya later13:27
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lcukis anyone considering this eee touchscreen desktop model?   i think it would made the perfect compliment to the tablet13:38
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lardmanmorning13:40
lcukhey lardman13:43
lardmanhi lcuk13:43
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lcuklardman, what do you think of these touchy desktops13:45
lcuk(eee desktop mainly)13:45
lardmannever used one13:45
lcukheh, thats cos they arent out yet :P but basically its an all in one monitor+comp13:46
lardmanurl?13:46
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aquatixlcuk: the Eee box?13:46
aquatixlooks very nice13:46
lcuklooks quite sweet actually, http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/10/15/touchscree_eee_advance_orders/13:46
aquatixoh wow13:47
aquatixthat's quite interesting too13:47
lardmanlooks like QT/E13:47
lcukyeah it is - im thinking a really nice compliment for the tablet13:48
lardmanthe desktop model?13:48
lcuksomething to get round my hangups about a desktop and also something to run libqase on ;)13:48
lcukyeah13:48
lardmanI'm confused, you like the hardware or the way the desktop is arranged?13:48
lardman:S13:48
lcukheh, the hardware - a nice preconfigured linux desktop machine with touchscreen integrated without having to hack or screw around13:49
lardmanah, I see13:49
lardmanI don't like machines without a keyboard13:50
lcuki could have that replacing my main desktop quite easily - i have a usb keyboard :)13:50
lcukand a mouse ;)13:50
lardmanlol, I don't think it would replace my dual core with oodles of RAM13:50
Veggenhmm. actually could be interesting, those.13:51
MangoFusionits not meant to replace your uber pc13:51
lcukheh, i build on my tablet, i think a casio watch with a fresnel lens will have more power :P13:51
lcukanything running native linux has to be better for me than vmware13:51
melmothmais ton petit frere, il a un shell sur la babasse. et lauren, je le connais pas assez pour ca.13:51
melmothoups13:52
VeggenI'll be involved in an event that'll have some info-kiosks around, next summer.13:52
lcukand the touchscreen is just the icing really13:52
lcukyeah, i think thats gonna be where liqbase expands into :)  i really like the idea of a big daddy master version which does more stuff13:53
lcuklardman, the camera flash works by the way :) its quite a nice effect13:53
lardmancool13:54
lardmanI'll steal that code for maemo-barcode13:54
lardman:)13:54
lcukobviously just for show ;)13:54
lcukbarcode wont need any flash though will it - that just scans all the time?13:54
lardmanmight be useful to get more light on the barcode13:55
lcukby the way, 320*240*15fps works really nicely - i upped from the older 8fps and its nice and smooth still13:55
lardmanat least until we get a camera which faces the right way13:55
lcukahhh no, it wont work that way will it?13:55
lcukcertainly not in the way ive made it so far13:55
lcuki have already grabbed the image before the flash appears13:55
lardmanok13:56
lcukit could work though actually, the gstreamer code you are working from has no frontend by default, you could simply whiteout the screen anytime13:57
lardmanhow long does the gstreamer pipeline take to startup?13:57
lcukrestarts are ~5-10 seconds13:57
lcukor thats how it feels13:58
lardmanThe barcode scanning is only a part of the barcode app, I'd prefer to be able to shut the pipeline down (and save power) while doing database accesses or internet lookups13:58
lcukyeah, thats why i was suggesting just have it as an added extra on the liqbase camera, it can be opened for any purpose and if you happen to show it a barcode it will react13:59
lardmanwell you're welcome to use it, I really want something specifically focused on the barcode data though14:01
lcuki wonder how much battery juice it draws by being activated constantly14:01
lcukyeah i know14:01
lcuklardman, ill do some testing later and see if i can get some metrics on battery life with and without the camera enabled and stuff14:05
lcukand see if just pausing the stream is worthwhile14:05
lardmancool14:05
lcuki dunno HOW im gonna test it lol, but i will14:06
lcukinfact, yeah i do - leave 2 versions of liqbase running on both machines overnight - logging every minute, one with a live camera, another with a paused camera14:06
lcukill find out when the machine died14:06
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* Stskeeps stretches14:15
yacoobthat would explain your double 'e'14:18
aquatixteehee14:18
yacoobaquatix, don't overdo it!14:19
aquatixsorry14:20
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|zeus|morning14:40
Stskeepsmorn14:40
|zeus|which video format should i use to watch video on n810?14:40
Stskeepsconsider http://maemo.org/downloads/product/PC/tablet-encode/ maybe14:41
|zeus|i just downloaded m4v movie for iphone/htc/.. - it plays too slow Ж(14:41
lcukit shouldnt really ? what res is it14:42
lcukanyone have any idea why some of the wiki pages come up 100% blank and others work14:43
lcukive got 2 tabs open one works and the other doesnt14:44
aquatixnice: http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=1448614:44
|zeus|lcuk: 480x27014:45
solmumahaaquatix: nice, if it worked properly14:46
* aquatix didn't try it yet14:46
solmumahabut i'm sure it gets better14:46
Stskeepsit works "decently"14:46
Stskeepsnot perfect, but decently14:46
solmumahanot with mac or ps314:46
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|zeus|hm. maybe problem in qtime/mov file format?14:47
solmumahaand the need to connect from the other end is annoying14:47
Stskeepssolmumaha: true14:47
aquatixah14:47
Stskeepssolmumaha: then again it's a HID device..14:47
aquatixwell, i might try it on my linux machine14:47
lcukbluemaemo is a nice idea, its been ported from some other system hasnt it?14:47
Stskeepsyeah, from openmoko14:47
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hrwmorning14:48
lcuksolmumaha, connecting a remote to any system needs to link from both ends doesnt it14:48
lcukhiya hrw14:48
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lcuki wonder what it would take for the bluemaemo remote to be a 2 way thing - kinda like the optimus maximus keyyboard thing14:50
lcukallow the pc to upload the glyphds and keys14:50
solmumahalcuk: maybe an app on host that connects the host to client14:51
solmumahai find it pretty useless without that feature14:51
lcukwell i use a remote control daemon on my desktop - it runs continuously and waits for commands14:52
lcukive just got a simple thing, but i set it up once and its running all the time - i can set the volume of my mplayer from anywhere in the world14:52
lcukand REALLY annoy tracy14:52
qwerty12_N800is that advertised as a feature? :p14:53
lcukthats not in liqbase :)14:53
solmumahai used to have a way to wake up my wife from upstairs remotely14:53
lcukit was the most required application  i had when i got my nokia: my old IR remote died on the computer so i needed something14:54
solmumahait was useful many times, but i managed to scare myself with that too14:54
lcukits wrote in python and connects to a visual basic daemon (yes, shoot me now)14:54
solmumahastop cursing14:54
* aquatix shoots lcuk 14:54
aquatixbut `daemon' here is apt ;)14:54
* qwerty12_N800 would say service if talking 'bout windows :p14:55
aquatixyeah14:55
aquatixbut `daemon' in the evil, devil way is quite an apt description for something VB14:55
lcukbut a service does not  belay its true nature - services in windows encapsulate much more than network connections14:56
qwerty12_N800Nothing can beat how gromit used to wake up wallace in the wrong trousers14:56
* lcuk wrote a service for windows once14:56
lirihas anyone experimented video calls through fring/gizmo5?14:59
lcukback later14:59
qwerty12_N800"What people type on a computer keyboard can be easily intercepted remotely, security researchers show." - This is news now?15:00
Stskeepsyeah, why bother dealing with setting up bluetooth when you can just power a usb keyboard and intercept it remotely ;)15:01
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Andy80hi all15:03
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aquatixqwerty12_N800: it's news, as it's made easy now15:09
* qwerty12_N800 didn't find the other methods of doing it so hard :)15:10
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hrwsomeone familiar with buildbot configs?15:27
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ToyKeeperHmm, weird.15:31
ToyKeeperWith hildon-input-method disabled, the n810 keyboard's Fn key doesn't work.15:31
ToyKeeperxmodmap lists no modifier for it, and when I try to add one, nothing seems to happen.15:32
ToyKeeperNormally, it shows Mod5 = ISO_Level3_Shift15:32
ToyKeeperI guess for now I'll just deal with using ~5% of RAM in order to make a single key work.  :)15:33
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ToyKeeperHmm, looks more like 8% of RAM...15:35
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lopzhi15:56
smoehello again. i have a pc-connectivity question. i followed the howto on http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking but i don't understand why its necessary to umount the mmc-devices... i don't think they are related to usb. at least i could mount my internal memory back using the fstab entry... while connected to the device via ssh15:56
smoedevice is a nokia n81015:57
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N800: Can you try to upload a package to Extras that has a section like: user/other/test ?16:44
X-Fadeqwerty12_N800: So we can see if something breaks in the chain :)16:44
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X-FadeOr anybody else who can upload to extras-devel of course ;)16:45
qwerty12_N800X-Fade, Sorry, but I probably wont be on my computer today for a long while :(16:45
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N800: No worries, I'll see if I can find another tester.16:45
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X-FadeIt would be nice to see if this subcategories thing breaks our repository tools. If it doesn't, then we only need to change the application manager.16:46
JaffaX-Fade: "only" ;-)16:46
X-FadeJaffa: Well, at least we have a battle at one front then ;)16:47
lardmanSo we're going with subcats are we?16:47
X-FadeJaffa: It seems the discussion died a bit, so we need some more fuel :)16:47
X-Fadelardman: Let's call it experimental exploration ;)16:48
lardmanX-Fade: it's because Jaffa and I put our points across so well ;)16:48
X-FadeI still think we should go: Short-term -> add a few sane categories, Fremantle -> aim for subcategories.16:48
lardmandefinitely, and stick non-conformant packages in the "dunces" section or similar16:49
X-Fadeother ;)16:49
X-FadeAnd let Khertan translate that as 'Poubelle' ;)16:49
lardmanyes, seems fair16:50
lardman:)16:50
X-FadeBtw, I hacked on the Extras Assistant today. I added uploading to chinook and diablo in one go.16:50
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X-FadeWill blog about it soonish. (I hope)16:51
qwerty12_N800Nice one :)16:51
X-FadeAnd the requirement to sign packages has been dropped.16:51
lcuk:O16:51
X-FadeSo that should make things easier.16:51
qwerty12_N800*wide smile*16:52
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lcukx-fade :) makes my process smoother anyway, thumbs up from me16:52
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X-FadeNow let's hope I didn't break it ;)16:53
X-FadeWorksforme[tm] ;)16:53
lardmanmultitasking my arse16:57
lardmanbloody WinXP16:57
lardman~lart WinXP for rubbish multitasking16:57
* infobot gives WinXP a good seeing to for rubbish multitasking16:57
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lcuklardman, windows DOES multitask well, it runs its internal things nicely, a virus checker, a spyware checker, a network checker a keyboard checker and a piracy checker.  when its doing all that at once its for the common good that your program has to wait17:02
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lardmanlcuk: it;s the fact that my mouse pointer movements and any task switches have to wait if a program is using lots of cpu that gets me17:03
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kaien810 the internal memory card is fixed, right? (can not be changed)17:21
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summatusmentiskaie: yes17:22
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kaiethanks17:22
summatusmentiskaie: sure thing, there is a microsd slot though17:22
kaieright, and it appears the limit is 8gb, I haven't seen any larger microsd cards. and minisd seems pretty rare these days17:23
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: hey man, you remember when we talked about the beagle board?17:23
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: and you gave me the name of some kind of other stick17:23
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johnxcrashanddie, gumstix? overo?17:24
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summatusmentiskaie: a 16gb is available, or should be shortly, and afaik the limit is not 8gb17:29
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kaiesummatusmentis, the 16 gb microsd cards were announced long ago, but I haven't seen anything for sale17:30
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kaiesummatusmentis, whoops, ebay now has 16 gb for sale, they didn't a couple of weeks ago17:33
summatusmentiskaie: I was pretty sure they'd just come out17:33
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housetierkaie, here it is http://www.youtube.com/?v=pR95TYHDJFE  (click on the high quality link)17:44
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t_s_oah, the joys of setting up a new phone18:01
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aquatixt_s_o: new toy?18:02
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* qwerty12 could do with another phone. It's old now but I'm quite liking the W58018:04
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RST38h"creature of terrible earnestness overmatched by the situation hes in"18:04
RST38hGuess who?18:04
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slonopotamusfrom someone's cv: hobby - wife...18:13
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lardmanhis own?18:14
slonopotamusyep18:15
slonopotamusStskeeps, hi?18:15
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RST38his that specifically stated?18:15
glassmaybe he's building himself one18:16
lardmanor pretending to be one18:16
lardmantraining perhaps18:17
slonopotamuswhy deblet unloads initfs wifi module and loads its own?18:19
johnxlardman, a wife in his spare time? or maybe apprenticing?18:20
johnxslonopotamus, because the deblet wifi module is better18:20
slonopotamus:D18:20
slonopotamusjohnx, that explains a lot18:20
johnxdeblet's wifi module supports Linux WEXT extensions18:20
johnxNokia's does not18:20
slonopotamushmm18:20
slonopotamusiwconfig & etc?18:21
johnxNokia uses a proprietary config tool. Deblet uses standard linux tools18:21
johnxwlancond vs iwconfig/wpa_supplicant18:21
slonopotamusok18:21
lardman~curse trig18:24
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, trig !18:24
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slonopotamuso_O18:26
slonopotamus~praise johnx18:26
infobotAll hail johnx!18:26
slonopotamusit works18:27
slonopotamus;)18:27
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slonopotamus~blame lardman18:27
* infobot blames lardman (and Canada) for all the evil in the world18:27
slonopotamusmuahaha)18:27
lardmanblame me for something working?!18:27
lardman:)18:27
johnxwhat did I do?18:28
slonopotamuswho?18:29
qwerty12~smoke weed18:29
* infobot rolls up weed, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes18:29
johnx~smoke weed everyday18:30
* infobot rolls up weed everyday, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes18:30
slonopotamushm18:30
qwerty12~smoke weed with qwerty1218:31
* infobot rolls up weed with qwerty12, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes18:31
qwerty12sick man infobot18:32
lardman~smoke causes cancer18:32
* infobot rolls up causes cancer, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes18:32
||cw~smoke qwerty1218:32
* infobot rolls up qwerty12, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes18:32
lcuk~smoke the carpet18:33
* infobot rolls up the carpet, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes18:33
lardmaninfobot: forget smoke18:34
infoboti forgot smoke, lardman18:34
slonopotamus~off18:34
infobotit has been said that off is the opposite of on18:34
slonopotamusoh18:34
slonopotamus~on18:34
infobothmm... on is not off18:34
qwerty12~bitchslap lardman for making infobot forget how to smoke18:35
qwerty12:p18:35
* infobot beats the sh*t out of lardman for making infobot forget how to smoke18:35
slonopotamus~die18:35
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.18:35
slonopotamus:D18:35
qwerty12X-Fade: Useless package uploaded to diablo extras-devel for testing subcategories. To see if this works without signing, I used dput options -fu :/18:35
lardmangood to see infobot providing useful info hey?18:35
slonopotamusgame over18:35
X-Fadeqwerty12: Heh, well let's see what happens :)18:36
X-Fadeqwerty12: Build succeeded.18:37
qwerty12X-Fade: Please delete it after you have finished testing. That package contains *nothing* :)18:37
qwerty12cool18:37
X-Fadeqwerty12: Let's see if it ends up in extras-devel. I will remove it after that.18:38
X-FadeHmm or maybe we should just leave it, so we can test AM etc ;)18:38
qwerty12If you wish :). The maemo-display-name starts with DO NOT INSTALL :o18:38
qwerty12*:p18:38
X-Fadeqwerty12: As long as we don't promote it to Extras, it should be ok ;)18:39
qwerty12~smoke lardman for trying to make you forget how to smoke, muhahaha18:39
* infobot rolls up lardman for trying to make you forget how to smoke, muhahaha, lights a match, kicks back and enjoys the noxious fumes18:39
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qwerty12hehe, I certainly wont :p18:39
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X-Fadeqwerty12: Yes, it works!18:42
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qwerty12X-Fade: Great news!18:42
lardmanworks in AM?18:43
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X-Fadelardman: It says other/test in AM.18:45
X-Fadelardman: So it doesn't see the subcat. But it doesn't break.18:45
lardmancool18:46
X-FadeYou now have a nice button with 'other/test' on it ;)18:46
* qwerty12 is waiting for my packages list to update18:46
SargunThis probably isn't the place to ask, but I can't download the maps in wayfinder for the life of me. Does anyone know why I might not be able to? is there an alternate method on how to do this?18:46
X-FadeDinner time, bbl.18:47
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summatusmentisandroid released source today :)18:54
johnxhot sauce!18:54
summatusmentishttp://source.android.com/projects18:54
summatusmentisacutally, remove the projects from that18:54
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slonopotamusdon't like deb packages. too verbose.20:23
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Sargun_ScreenI wonder if way finder has ever heard of a cdn.. or Nokia for that matter20:24
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RST38hCanadian Dairy Network? =)20:27
lcukoow20:28
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orangeyhey all!20:28
orangeyI want to install scratchbox (or whatever development environment) in ubuntu intrepid.20:28
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orangeyI see that there are great directions for doing this with 4.0 in older ubuntus20:28
orangeyis there anything more updated?20:28
orangeyhttp://www.progbox.co.uk/wordpress/?p=45320:28
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woglindeorangey whats the problem?20:29
lcukorangey, have you just tried it?20:29
lcukhiya woglinde20:30
woglindehi lcuk20:30
orangeywoglinde: there's no problem.20:30
woglindehttp://repository.maemo.org/stable/4.1.1/INSTALL.txt20:30
woglindeis yall you need20:30
qwerty12orangey: disabling vdso and lowering the mmap level is a must in hardy at least20:30
orangeyIf there is no more updated version than that, though, then I'll spend a bit more time writing what special things I do.20:30
qwerty12s/lowering/increasing20:31
orangeyincidentally, the whole reason I'm doing this is to make an updated package of fceu20:31
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orangeydoes anybody know if there's an fceu for diablo?20:31
woglindethe Install.txt has all solutions for the ceavates20:31
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woglindefceu?20:31
orangeythe nintendo emulator20:31
woglindehm20:32
woglindeshould not be hard to cross compile20:32
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orangeyunless there's another  nintendo emulator for maemo that works better..20:32
niadhHow do I flash my N800 internet tablet with the 4.2008.35.5 image?20:32
lcukhttp://www.google.com/search?q=maemo+fceu20:32
woglindejust copy over the debian package20:32
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woglindeand cross compile20:32
orangeywoglinde: believe me, I've been through it.20:32
lcukniadh, are you in windows or linux20:32
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niadhLinux20:32
woglindeniadh install the latest image for download20:33
orangeyanyhow, it's just that the packages don't seem to work for diablo. that's why I thought it would be ideal to compile some.20:33
niadhHow?20:33
slonopotamus~poop20:33
woglindeand then hitt update20:33
* infobot fertilizes the channel20:33
johnxniadh, then you flash to .23 and do an update in app manager20:33
johnx~flashing20:33
infobotwell, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware20:33
niadhAh, I did wonder why I could only find a .23 image20:33
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woglindeniadh hm yes its sometimes a little bit confusing20:34
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lopzhi20:36
woglindehi lopz20:37
lopzheya woglinde20:37
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slonopotamus~gentoo mind20:39
* infobot recompiles mind again20:39
slonopotamus~gentoo his mind20:39
* infobot recompiles his mind again20:39
Stskeepsandroid sources came out?20:40
niadhalso with the wiki moving, my old bookmarks to the page don't work anymore20:40
qwerty12_N800~hump20:40
* infobot humps the channel20:40
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* Stskeeps pokes qwerty12_N800 :P20:41
johnxStskeeps, that they did20:41
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Stskeepsscary20:41
Stskeepsanyone started trying yet?20:41
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, lol20:41
johnxI'm in the process of a massive git pull :)20:41
Stskeepshehe20:41
johnxapparently it's actually the whole damn thing too20:41
johnxpeople are completely shocked :)20:41
Stskeepsi wonder how it is with power consumption20:41
Stskeepsbut yes, i'm shocked too20:42
suihkulokkiincluding 3d drivers? :)20:42
Stskeepsand wet with excitement20:42
Stskeeps:P20:42
johnxO_o20:42
Stskeepsbut true20:42
johnxT_T20:42
Stskeeps(kidding about the wet stuff.)20:42
Stskeepsit's raining outside, mmkay.20:42
Stskeeps:P20:42
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, stop lying :p20:42
Stskeeps3d drivers, i guess that's needed for decent performance or?20:42
* johnx has already run screaming into the hills...20:42
johnxStskeeps, doesn't seem to be20:42
johnxI mean it would *help* of course20:43
Stskeepsmm20:43
johnxI used the hacked up beta on my zaurus and it works on the tablets too20:43
johnxthe performance wasn't bad, but hopefully some optimizations will help20:43
slonopotamuspeople sayy android has damn slow browser20:44
johnxapparently their davlik interpreter is a terrifyingly optimized beast20:44
slonopotamusand no sources yet20:44
niadhWhere can I get and what flags do I use with the flasher tool for linux?20:44
slonopotamus~flashing20:44
johnxslonopotamus, no sources for what? the browser?20:44
infobotfrom memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware20:44
slonopotamusjohnx, for android. but i didn't check20:45
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johnxcheck again20:45
johnxit just got released20:45
niadhit's not loading the page20:45
slonopotamusok ;)20:45
niadhwill see if google has it in cache20:45
Stskeepsjohnx: i wonder what this move will cause really20:45
niadhyeah google cache works, but I can't get to the page directly20:45
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johnxniadh, seems to be a constant state with maemo.org :/20:46
niadhOh, fair enough20:46
johnxStskeeps, I'm looking forward to seeing things get shaken up a little :)20:46
Stskeepsindeed20:46
Stskeepsi mean, i would possibly actually run this20:46
Stskeepsif it is complete as they say20:46
johnxit's been run already as binaries20:47
Stskeepsyeah, admittedly i didn't use it then as it was more of a hackk20:47
Stskeepsbut source avail and updates ..20:47
johnxthis will fly on an omap3 I'm thinking :)20:47
johnxespecially with openGL ES20:47
Stskeepsyeah20:47
moontigerdoes anybody know a good hosting company in europe?20:48
woglindemoontiger hm what you mean woth good?20:48
woglindeprice20:48
woglindetraffic?20:48
moontigergood price for a dedicated server20:48
woglindecustomer care?20:48
florianmoontiger: depends on what you want to host and how you define "good"20:48
moontigercustomer care matters not20:48
woglindeflorian *g*20:49
moontigersome of my websites ... i want to move them out of america20:49
moontigernot pron20:49
moontigerand not warez20:49
qwerty12_N800not warez!?!20:49
moontigerthings like gagfoot.com and a few others20:49
woglindemoontiger hm why?20:50
florianmoontiger: heh... Hetzner and Strato (.de) should be quite cheap and more or less reliable.20:50
johnxslonopotamus, pulling down the webkit sources google is using right now :)20:50
woglindein europe the laws are sometimes stronger20:50
moontiger1. im moving to europe    2. i dont trust america20:50
slonopotamushuh20:50
slonopotamusdon't trust anyone20:50
slonopotamuseven yourself20:50
slonopotamus:P20:50
melmothmoontiger: there s the dedibox.free.fr , but i am afraid you need to be living in france to be a customer.20:51
melmothmay be other european country will have the same pre requisite.20:52
moontigerhetzner looks good :)20:52
moontigermelmoth, i signed up and its works :)20:52
moontigerthe phonehome thingy20:52
moontigeri added clickable images btw ;)20:52
melmoth\o/20:52
moontigerlots of improving and tidying up to do of course20:52
melmothbeta test  opening sg on itt did not have a huge impact..We were visited by.... well... googlebot :)20:53
moontigeri have an eu passport so im european :)20:53
moontigerhahaha20:53
moontigerdid googlebot sign up?20:53
melmoth:)20:53
melmothactually, there has been 1 other sign on.20:53
moontigercool :)20:54
moontigeri was thinking of a bunch of features we can talk about when im not teaching20:54
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woglindemoontiger uh what you aredoing with phoneme?20:54
moontigerbut things like config from web site that gets sent down to the daemon when a connection is made20:54
melmothcan be done, just not for the current config option are they are needed to connect (login basically)20:55
moontigerright20:55
moontigerbut after the initial we can ... things like frequency and limits20:55
moontigerand downloads of tracks20:55
moontigeretc20:55
melmothwoglinde: http://phonehome.garage.maemo.org/20:56
melmothlimits of data and frequency of pic upload sounds doable.20:56
woglindemelmoth args20:56
woglindelol20:57
woglindesorry20:57
woglindeI read phoneme20:57
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woglindewhich is opened java me engine from sun20:57
* moontiger doesnt really like java20:57
melmothi dont know phoneme20:58
Sargun_Screenjava is...interesting20:59
woglindeSargun_Screen you can use cacao with classpath20:59
woglindeon the tablets20:59
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: wasn't the problem of android it needs a newish kernel and hence cx3110x won't work (stlc45xx isnt exactly active yet)21:06
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hmm, the version me and pb did? wireless actually worked in that kernel. the problem is that newer android builds use some framebuffer thing which isn't really supported by tablet21:09
Stskeepsah21:09
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qwerty12_N800turbo, An English teacher by trade? :p21:14
zakkmThe guy didn't come!! -.- twice21:14
zakkmIs $195(Canadian Dollars) A lot for a nokia N800 .. openbox but unused?21:15
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qwerty12_N800~kill the guy who didn't cum twice21:15
* infobot shoots a charged fluxproton gun at the guy who didn't cum twice21:15
lcuktheres drugs that can help that nowadays21:15
zakkmlcuk: the guy didnt show again..21:15
lcukthats a bit piss poor, have you spoken to him since?21:15
zakkmno.21:15
lcukbut tbh i dont think that matters, go searching for another21:15
zakkmI waited and called21:15
zakkmI did.. found one that is willing to wait until i get paid ( Thursday ) .. wants $195 for a openbox, unused though21:16
zakkm$195 is a lot though isn't it?21:16
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lcuki dunno since i work in £21:16
lcukand i dont know what kind of $ you mean21:16
|rt|well it's cheaper than a new n81021:16
lcukonly you will know that21:16
zakkmN800... not N81021:16
|rt|yeah...but it's hard to find a new n80021:17
zakkmlcuk : 95.15 quid...21:17
zakkmnew n810 = $359.9921:17
zakkmbut isn't it a lot of money for one? $19521:17
* zakkm person doesnt know about warranty either.. so i figure there is none21:18
lcukthats your decision :)21:18
moontigerwarranty is everything on devices like these21:18
moontigerimo21:18
zakkmbut you guys are experts at this.. Should i wait to buy from someone else, or should i buy from this guy for $195?21:18
zakkmMy 770 got WSOD and i hated it cause i didn't have warranty21:18
lcuki purchased direct from nokia, i would personally not recommend getting a second user model of pretty much anything like this21:19
moontigerwould u like to throw $195 down the toliet?21:19
zakkmno not at all21:19
moontigertoilet too21:19
zakkmi cant afford too21:19
zakkmto*21:19
moontigerthen spend the extra to get new21:19
lcukbut new 800 isnt available21:19
moontigerim with lcuk on this21:19
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zakkmi cant afford it new.21:19
lcuki know21:19
zakkmi can hardly even afford $19521:19
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lcuki know theres good sellers and good deals out there, if you are careful - as you looked like you were being - then i dont tihnk you will have problems21:20
zakkmso you think i should wait and find a better deal?21:20
lcuki dont think you should rush it :)21:21
lcuki dont even know where you are finding these selleres anyway and what reputation system they have etc21:21
zakkmtheres one guy selling it on ebay.. from ITT forum.. ships only to US though :(21:21
zakkmCraigslist.21:22
lcuknever used it, wouldnt know21:22
zakkmits okay, when the ppl show up21:22
zakkmyou know it, right?21:22
|rt|nice thing about craigslist is that your not buying a blind item21:34
zakkmyeah that too21:35
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zakkmBut sometimes they dont show up -.-21:35
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|rt|i've never had that happen but I haven't bought many things off craigslist21:36
moontigercraigslist has a lot of flakes21:36
zakkmWell, just this one guy in particular21:36
zakkmHe acts like its my fault -.-21:36
moontigerthe point is that even tho the seller sells with good faith it may still break the next day21:36
zakkmYeah i know that21:36
moontigerand u have a paperweight21:36
zakkmbut this one guy didnt even show up twice.21:36
|rt|most of the stuff I get off craigslist is woodworking related...so never really run into flakes21:36
moontigerright ... i use craigslist a lot for stuff that cant really "break" as such21:37
zakkmLast i bought was headphones for $1021:37
zakkmI love them ;p21:37
moontigerzakkm where u based?21:37
zakkmToronto, Canada21:37
moontigerok21:37
zakkmI thought big city, it would be easy to find a seller.21:38
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moontigeri got mine new from amazon when they came out last xmas21:38
zakkmhow much ?21:38
moontigerit was $450 then21:38
zakkmN800 or N810?21:38
moontigern81021:38
zakkmTigerdirect sells N810's now for $349.9921:39
zakkm:P21:39
zakkmnew, warranty .. etc.21:39
moontigeryah but $450 == one day of teaching so i didnt mind ;)21:39
zakkmone day of teaching?21:39
zakkmyou get paid $450 in one days wage?21:39
|rt|zakkm: that's where I got mine21:39
moontigeryes21:39
melmothwhat are you teaching ?21:39
melmoth(finance ? :) )21:39
moontigerphp / mysql / apache / ajax / javascript21:39
zakkmno flipping way, $450?21:40
moontigerwhy do u think i do it?? :)21:40
moontigeri code when im not teaching so i do both21:40
zakkmI believe you teaching.. but getting paid $450 a day ?21:40
woglindephp / mysql21:40
woglindeargs21:40
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zakkmmoontiger: Where are you located?21:40
moontigersan fran21:40
zakkmthat is wayy too much money21:41
moontigerhehehe21:41
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moontigerif i go teach at a company its $60021:42
zakkmno way.. for one day?21:42
* moontiger nods21:42
zakkmWhat you teach? Im going into it? :P lol21:42
moontigerphp / mysql / etc etc / ajax / etc etc21:42
zakkmweb languages?21:42
moontigeryup yup ... open source21:42
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woglindezakkm $600 is normal21:43
moontigerand i do contract programming as well21:43
zakkmAh man i just dropped computer science.21:43
zakkmeven $150-200 a day would be hella nice21:43
woglindehehe thats to cheap21:44
woglindeand companys think you are bad21:44
woglindeor so21:44
zakkmnononono21:44
zakkmIm thinking thats the point .. for the lifestyle i want.21:44
moontigeryah i teach people like ebay and google and others21:44
moontigerthey pay big bucks ... but u have to know ur stuff21:44
moontigerand i travel and work when i want21:45
moontigerthats why im off to europe soon21:45
zakkmI'm not good at math though :P21:45
moontigerchange of scene21:45
moontiger:)21:45
zakkmI was thinking system administration ?21:45
zakkmIt didn't look too difficult.. no math involved.21:45
lcukplenty21:45
moontigerthere doesnt have to be math in programming either21:45
woglindeyou always need math21:46
|rt|zakkm: you won't get away from programming in sys admin21:46
moontigerunless ur doing grafix21:46
lcukyou've got 40 servers, each pulling 240watts - can you cope with a 3kwatt outlet21:46
zakkmno i just mean like insane algebra..21:46
woglindemoontiger yes if you are a webslave21:46
moontigeri do what pays21:46
moontigeri also code in assembler and c/ c++21:46
moontigerbut nobody is paying to do that right now21:46
moontiger;)21:46
woglindemoontiger I meant the math21:46
* qwerty12_N800 is shit at maths but i'll be fine as long as i carry a calculator :p21:46
moontigerhmmmmmmmmm mostly yes woglinde21:47
woglindeqwerty12_N800 the calculator do not solve inductions21:47
moontigerbut there is of course basic math reqd all the time21:47
woglindeor algorithm analysis21:47
qwerty12_N800:/21:47
|rt|i used to be a technical director doing computer animation but just do sys admin stuff now21:47
|rt|alot less linear algebra and trig in sys admin21:48
zakkmhow much does admin stuff pay?21:48
woglindezakkm depends21:48
zakkmroughly, starting?21:48
woglindesome are not getting more than webslaves21:48
woglindeothers get 100k or more21:48
woglindedepends depends21:49
zakkmlets say i graduate.. and i did well..21:49
zakkmsemi high marks21:49
zakkmi know my stuff..21:49
woglindedepends21:49
woglindeon the firm and people you know21:49
woglindesorry21:49
|rt|you can make a decent living doing sys admin21:49
lcukzakkm, local markets are roller coasters, you will find your way21:49
|rt|one of my friends was one of the first sys admins at google....he's now retired21:49
moontigeri like to be able to travel21:50
|rt|but I wouldn't count on that sort of thing happening21:50
lcuknot in current climate21:50
zakkmi would like a nice uhh idkk $50k ?21:50
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zakkmI'm still 17.. so I dont know how much my future life is going to cost me.21:51
lcukzakkm, look what others around you are earning - check out job offers in your area (or where you want to be) then go for it there21:51
melmothif what you are looking for is the money, i think you should not consider coding or admin. try sales.21:51
lcukone persons millions could (literally) be anothers peanuts21:51
zakkmHaha i like computers.. I just cant program21:51
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zakkmI totallyyy failed computer science.. reason i dropped it21:51
woglindecant program and admin?21:51
woglindethats not good21:52
zakkmthat and i told this year was C#.. and it wasnt21:52
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lcukits ok, he can join microsoft21:52
zakkmadmin, i think ill do okay21:52
woglindeif you do not know something about sed or awk21:52
zakkmmicrosoft is good? like the people21:52
woglindeyou will be not a good admin21:52
zakkmthey just screwed up the plan i think21:52
|rt|woglinde: you can replace sed or awk pretty easily with perl or python21:52
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|rt|but then again that's still programming21:53
lcukdepends whether its ms admin or not21:53
woglindert sed and awk are faster haha21:53
woglindeand smaller21:53
zakkmwell either way , i wont be graduating for another 4-5 years..21:54
|rt|yes that is true but speed and size normally doesn't really matter too much when it comes to system administration21:54
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zakkmim graduating highskool next year..21:54
woglindelcuk you can even programm with cmd and the other ms tools21:55
moontigerzakkm, i would enjoy being so young for a while yet :)21:55
zakkmlol21:55
zakkmIm 17. 18 in march21:55
moontigerooooooooo getting old huh? ;)21:55
lcukyou are still in beta21:55
|rt|lol21:55
zakkmWorking for $8.20 a hour, cashiering at a grocery store :P21:55
zakkmalpha actually.21:55
lcukheh21:55
moontigerlol21:55
woglindehm21:56
woglindebetter than nothing21:56
zakkmat 8.20 a hour.. seeing how $195 is alot of money? :P21:56
woglindeI did sys admin at university for 12 euros21:56
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zakkmthis is Canadian dollars.21:56
lcukbbl21:56
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zakkm$19 CAD = 12 euro21:57
zakkmI am young, but its time to start thinking about a job path21:57
moontigerfor me its tax deductible too as its all work related21:57
moontigerso buying one wasnt a problem21:57
moontiger:)21:57
zakkmgot it free/ almost free?21:57
moontigerin effect21:58
|rt|I don't think sys admin or programming will make anyone rich, there are exceptions, but both jobs will make a decent living21:58
zakkmget me one :P21:58
zakkmlol21:58
zakkmim a very basic person21:58
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zakkmdont need fast stuff, dont want a big house or anything21:58
zakkmor even a house, apartment life is great in my mind21:58
* moontiger nods21:58
zakkmmy pc is an atom 1.6ghz and i think its hella fast :P21:59
zakkmfor what i need21:59
woglindelol21:59
zakkmgma950 ftw! :D21:59
moontigeri also live basically22:00
moontigertravelling requires that22:00
zakkmmoontiger: how much you make a day?22:00
moontigerteaching .... $450 - $60022:01
moontigercoding ... $100+ per hour22:01
zakkmokay lets say $450 ... $450 can be an amazing lifestyle22:01
zakkmeven $100+ -.-22:01
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hellwolfWhy it shows me a blank page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware22:06
hellwolfSorry, I did Ctrl-F5, it's ok now22:06
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lardmanvery quiet here tonight22:39
qwerty12_N800hehe, hi lardman22:39
lardmanhi qwerty12_N80022:39
lardmanI thought you might have done ~silence everyone, or similar22:39
qwerty12_N800:p. btw, infobot agrees wiith smoking :p22:40
qwerty12_N800~weed22:40
infobotweed is probably good22:40
lardmanhmm22:40
qwerty12_N800grr22:40
zakkmloll22:40
lardmanit'll give you psychosis22:41
qwerty12_N800the bot is all knowing, i take its word over yours :p22:41
lardmanI'm a doctor22:41
Stskeepslardman: probably just shellshock from android source announcement.. as the reason why it's quiet22:42
lardmannot a MA, but still a doctor :)22:42
lardmanStskeeps: fair enough :)22:42
qwerty12_N800ok, i retract that and take your word lardman :)22:42
zakkmyour a doctor, wow.22:42
lardmans/MA/MD22:42
zakkmPeople here are older than i thought.22:42
* lardman can't type, as ever22:42
qwerty12_N800~qwerty1222:42
infoboti guess qwerty12 is the king of e@$T L0ND0N22:42
qwerty12_N800yeah bruv22:42
qwerty12_N800i told you it's all knowing22:42
Stskeepszakkm: phds can be fairly young22:43
lardmanI'm 30 fwiw22:43
solmumahanow that's old22:44
lardmanoi!22:44
qwerty12_N800lol22:44
Stskeepsheh, i'm 2422:44
woglindehehe22:44
qwerty12_N800<-- 1622:44
zakkmheh, I'm 1722:44
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woglindeI am 3 years older than lardman22:44
yacoobimpossible, lardman. People don't live that long.22:44
lardmanyacoob: lol22:44
zakkmqwerty12, how'd you afford the nokia at 16?22:44
Stskeepshe ninjaed his way into nokia22:44
Stskeepswith his leet skills22:44
qwerty12_N800zakkm, saved up money for about a year :)22:45
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woglindezakkm some people has rich friends22:45
woglindeups parent22:45
woglindeI am mean22:45
|rt|hehe at 31 I guess I don't have much longer to live22:45
woglindeor doing opensource developement and getting some sponsors22:45
zakkm|rt|: may i inherit your nokia? :D22:46
lcukuntil this year i was dead22:46
|rt|zakkm: i think my wife has dibs on it22:46
woglindelcuk lol22:46
lardmanzakkm: they'll probably need to sell it to pay for a tombstone22:46
zakkm|rt|: that may lead to your death ;p22:46
qwerty12_N800i'll  donate my n800 to infobot22:46
* zakkm becomes infobot22:47
|rt|hehe purhaps but I'll die happy22:47
Stskeepssame with my n800.. my gf is next in line22:47
lardmanqwerty12_N800: donate it to Nokia to take some load off the maemo.org 77022:47
Stskeepsin the meanwhile she's getting a ipaq 363022:47
Stskeeps:P22:47
lcukwoglinde, serious, i had no internet profile - searching for my name brought up a news article saying i had died in an industrial accident22:47
qwerty12_N800lardman, lol22:47
zakkmmaemo.org only has a 770?22:47
Stskeepslcuk's a ghost!22:47
Stskeeps:P22:47
* qwerty12_N800 n800 is in bad condition... scratches everywhere22:47
lardmanzakkm: yeah, sometimes we think it's actually a Zaurus sl-5000D22:47
lardmanzakkm: hosting that is.... ;)22:48
zakkmno idea what that is :P22:48
solmumahaonly the really old one know22:49
lcukzaurus was the first tiny format device that resembled a real computer22:49
flo_lapzakkm: hehe... you are too young ;)22:49
lcukthat i remember anyway22:49
solmumahai had sl-5500, i think22:49
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qwerty12_N800you oldie :p22:49
lcukhang on, thats not the one i eyed up22:49
* qwerty12_N800 never was hooked by the zaurus, preferring pocket pc's instead22:50
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lcukit was the C3000 that i drooled over22:50
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lardmanzakkm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Zaurus, 8MB flash, 32MB RAM22:51
solmumahai found a video clip today that i had filmed with 5500 and its cf camera22:51
lardmansolmumaha: you had that camera?!22:51
solmumahayes :)22:51
lardmancool :)22:52
zakkmdoesnt look half bad for its age22:52
qwerty12_N800worse than n800's camera? :p22:52
solmumahaordered it from germany, cost only 50 e or so22:52
solmumahanot much22:52
lardmannot bad22:52
lardmanbring on the n900 5MPix camera is all I can say :)22:52
lcukheh, no matter how well nokia do with this next device (could be gold with 8x CPU, a super battery, mega camera and whatnot) people will still find stuff to complain about ;)22:54
zakkm8x cpu ?22:54
zakkmthey wouldnt do that would they?22:54
* lcuk bangs head on wall22:54
zakkmhaha22:55
zakkmnot possible, is it?22:55
lardmanzakkm: 8 cores would kill battery life :)22:55
lcukof course its possible, you would flatten bettery a bit faster22:55
moontigerit would boot and die real quick tho :)22:55
zakkmwhat you talking about, said super battery ;p22:55
qwerty12_N800i want the platinum edition so i can wear it on my neck22:55
lcukmoontiger, not really - you could get 10-20minutes out of it22:55
zakkmis there any news on the nokia n900?22:55
moontigerwell thats good then22:55
moontiger:)22:55
lcuklol22:56
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lardmanzakkm: increase my home electricity bills, fuel global warming, don't worry I've got the complaints lined up ;)22:56
lcuknokia pocket warmer22:56
zakkmlol22:56
zakkmelectricity is cheap .. just we use alot :P22:56
zakkmIn ontario, Canada.. it costs the government for electricity more than it costs you ;p22:56
lcukphew, good job we dont pay for the government22:57
qwerty12_N800What is this Canada you talk of?22:57
zakkmi meant electricity is cheap ;p22:57
zakkm?22:57
hellwolfHow could I change user name in maemo, by default it's "user"22:57
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lcukhellwolf, i hink you have to go and fill out a form at the local ton hall, and get signatures from 4 friends22:59
lcuktown ^22:59
lcuk+whatever other typo fixup is needed22:59
zakkmstrangers*** not friends..22:59
zakkm:P22:59
lcukmmmmm i uploaded a version of lb to extras-devel last night22:59
lcukbut its not there, i think i left it in the queue23:00
* lcuk is a plonker23:00
qwerty12_N800check it23:00
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lcukqwerty12_N800, wheres the list?23:01
qwerty12_N800https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/23:02
lcukty23:02
qwerty12_N800np23:02
lcukno, i think i mustv closed window after the upload but before pushing it :$23:02
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qwerty12_N800at least we don't need to sign stuff anymore :)23:02
qwerty12_N800use dput23:02
lcukyeah ill use the assistant for now23:03
qwerty12_N800i was like that but then i saw how much easier dput was23:03
lcukyeah but after building i have to manually get it onto my server so i can test it on the other nokia23:04
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lcukbefore uploading to extras23:04
qwerty12_N800you should be able to do it from the tablet actually23:04
qwerty12_N800k23:04
lcuki should, but i build in scratchbox23:04
lcukits such a long winded process, but at least i know ive updated to svn correctly23:05
qwerty12_N800that doesn't matter, i used to build inside sbox and upload outside sbox :)23:05
* lcuk 's commits are littered with "ooops forgot xyz"23:05
woglindelcuk *g*23:05
lcukqwerty i mean actually ensuring the svn source is correct and buildable23:06
lcukshurrup woglinde :P23:06
lcuki was rocking for a 0.1.0 release until you came alone :P (and very nicely got me past garage security)23:06
lcukalong ^23:06
lcukqwerty12_N800, you wont have seen this then will you http://liqbase.net/liq.20081021_131225.gary.scr.png23:09
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qwerty12_N800no, looks cool :)23:10
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lcukive put the same functionality for all buttons, people can stop asking for custom stuff now23:11
RST38hmoo again23:11
woglindehi RST38h23:12
zakkmlcuk: that looks cool23:12
hellwolfI installed avahi-daemon, but every time reboot, it didn't start automatically23:12
lcukzakkm :) its even better runnin it properly :)23:12
qwerty12_N800hey RST38h23:13
zakkmlcuk: whats with the thing at the top right of each option though?23:13
zakkmPO or something?23:13
woglindeavahi is overloaded crap23:13
hellwolfbut I need that crap23:13
woglinde????23:13
lcukthats actually the edit button (which i have the code open for right now)23:13
zakkmhellwolf: your have to add it to startup :P23:13
zakkmdebian uses rc.conf doesnt it?23:13
woglindenobody needs it23:13
woglindezakkm nope23:13
lcukedit button displays and lets you select the icon for that button23:13
woglindesysv23:13
* qwerty12_N800 has avahi for jokes23:14
hellwolfzakkm, how could I add it. The question is I used N800 before, and I installed avahi also23:14
zakkmah23:14
hellwolfit could start it self23:14
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* lcuk is makin it vanish tonight :)23:14
zakkmhellwolf: installing a daemon doesnt mean it starts up right away.. its not windows :P23:14
zakkmno it cant23:14
qwerty12_N800lcuk the wizard23:14
woglindezakkm hellowolf maybe the package is broken23:14
zakkmnothing can call on it to startup by default.23:14
zakkmwell i guess the install script can add it to config .. but yeah23:15
lcukqwerty12_N800 did you install later version from my site? or have you still got an old one?23:15
hellwolfI have this23:15
hellwolf# ls -l /etc/rc2.d/S14avahi-daemon23:15
hellwolflrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           22 Oct 21 20:55 /etc/rc2.d/S14avahi-daemon -> ../init.d/avahi-daemon23:15
zakkmso that doesnt mean its started up23:15
woglindehellwolf hm looks good23:15
zakkmjust means you can do /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start23:15
zakkmto start it23:15
woglindeis there a /etc/default/avahi?23:15
qwerty12_N800lcuk, 0.1.5 :)23:15
hellwolfhellwolf-n810:~# ls -l /etc/default/avahi-daemon23:16
hellwolf-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          219 Aug 14 21:05 /etc/default/avahi-daemon23:16
lcukso the camera works for you :)23:16
lcukor havent you noticed/tried23:16
woglindehellwolf look whats in there23:16
hellwolfAVAHI_DAEMON_DETECT_LOCAL=123:16
woglindemaybee its turn of by default23:16
qwerty12_N800lcuk, it works great! most stable camera app by far :)23:16
hellwolfthe question is it didn't start up23:16
lcukheh23:16
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hellwolfI can manually start avahi-daemon23:16
woglindehellwolf right23:17
hellwolf/etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start23:17
lcukthats cos its not trying to be a super cam :)23:17
hellwolfand it's also in /etc/rc2.d23:17
hellwolfand why it didn't startup23:17
qwerty12_N800hellwolf, install sysklogd and examine the log to see messages as to why it wont start on startup23:17
hellwolfok23:17
qwerty12_N800lcuk, i love it the way it is ^-^ :p23:17
lcukqwerty :)23:18
qwerty12_N800:)23:18
* lcuk passes qwerty12 an envelope23:18
qwerty12_N800lol23:19
lcuknahhh, kot was sayin last night i should add param to liqbase specifically for the camera23:19
lcukcos it just works and is quick and stuff :) i tend to agree23:19
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qwerty12_N800i'm for leaving it as it is unless you decide to make any changes, the camera is crap anyway, no point in putting a lot of work :p23:20
lcukheh, i agree, but just having it there and giving my nokia to someone for a minute gets me a picture of them and a quick hello in the sketchpad23:21
lcukits all kept together so now i can keep names and faces together :)23:21
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* lcuk has a terrible memory23:22
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qwerty12_N800heh, i'm good at remembering this i don't need to :/23:22
qwerty12_N800*things23:22
lcukheh, i just think its cool to let people see the nokia and play with it (word of mouth is excellent this way) and i might as well keep the info once its there23:23
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qwerty12_N800yeah, i was showing off my nokia with liqbase and it was to the liking of everyone :) (i was able to present the camera as good!)23:24
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lcukso in your photo album and eventually your graffiti wall you know that today you were havin a laugh with friends23:25
lcukcos their photos are there and they squiggled a bit23:25
zakkmlcuk: should have a upload feature :P23:25
zakkmfor the camera :P23:25
lcukzakkm :)23:25
lcuki ask for a users name before using the program.  there is a reason for this23:26
qwerty12_N800lcuk, this was when you just had the blit test :)23:26
lcukheh23:26
qwerty12_N800well, username=`uname_-a`hhjjkkjhy ...23:27
zakkmwhy the _ in uname -a ?23:27
lcukzakkm, what if you could take a picture and write on the back of it (like an old polaroid) and send it to someone23:27
lcuklol23:27
zakkmoh that'll be cool23:27
zakkmor like uhh23:27
lcuka postcard23:27
zakkmAnnotate your photo?23:27
lcuki really hope nokia doesnt screw up the camera on the next model23:28
zakkmtake a photo .. and then like draw on it23:28
lcukyeah23:28
zakkmadd glasses, block out the eyes.. idunno23:28
lcuk.. you are starting to see where i am heading :)23:28
zakkmno offense, i mean liqbase sounds really amazing and i would totally install / keep up to date.. but showing ppl the nokia.. wouldn't ppl be liking it more from canola?23:28
lcukcanola is a media consumer - liqbase creates and catalogues entirely new data23:29
zakkmyeah but isnt that what people generally want.23:29
zakkmMaybe its just me being a teenager.23:29
lcukno, ive got canola on mine23:30
lcukpeople like to play and watch and listen23:30
lcukbut they aso like to draw and take pics and write messages and do funky stuff23:30
lcuktheres plenty of space on the nokia for all things :)23:31
zakkmahh i want one23:32
zakkmdamn guy didn't show up23:32
zakkm-.-23:32
lcukhah23:32
hellwolfqwerty12_N800, on my N800, I also installed avahi-daemon, but I didn't find avahi-daemon startup script in /etc/rc2.d, and it does startup correctly. Contrary, on my N810, avahi-daemon has a script under /etc/rc2.d, but it doesn't startup. So where's the actual place for startup programs23:32
zakkmhellwolf just google debian startup config23:32
zakkmdaemon startup23:32
zakkmdebian daemon startup config23:33
qwerty12_N800hellwolf, it's actually rc2.d & rc5 (for the charger) :/23:33
zakkmyou have a N800 and N810?23:34
hellwolfqwerty12_N800, # ls /etc/rc2.d/*avahi*23:34
hellwolfls: /etc/rc2.d/*avahi*: No such file or directory23:34
hellwolfqwerty12_N800, on my N80023:34
zakkm... your not looking for a file called avahi?23:34
hellwolfqwerty12_N800, but the avahi starts up23:34
woglindehellwolf both have diablo installed?23:34
hellwolfno, one is diablo(n810), one is chinook23:35
qwerty12_N800hellwolf, /etc/rc2.d/S14avahi-daemon    /etc/rc2.d/S16avahi-dnsconfd23:35
qwerty12_N800from my n80023:35
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hellwolfthat's interesting23:37
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GeneralAntillesDamn spammers23:37
hellwolfqwerty12_N800, I found on my N800(chinook), it's startup by  ./network/if-up.d/avahi-daemon23:38
* GeneralAntilles is way too lazy to read the scrollback.23:38
hellwolfin my n810, it changed23:38
GeneralAntillesWhy does GNUton insist on breaking my wiki?23:38
qwerty12_N800hellwolf, ah23:39
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aazarhey guys, I just received a N810 and it came with a sticker in the middle of the screen with some sort of 2D barcode. Removing that sticker left a layer of sticker and glue on the screen. Anyone also had this?23:41
hellwolfthat's sad23:42
lcukare you sure you've not left the clear plastic cover that sticker is stuck to on23:42
GeneralAntillesaazar, it's not on the screen.23:43
GeneralAntillesThere's a factory shipping protector23:43
GeneralAntilles~screen-protector23:43
aazarhere we go23:43
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Screen_protector23:43
lcukmine had a hard plastic protector which that barcode was stuck onto23:43
GeneralAntilles~screen-protector is https://wiki.maemo.org/Screen_protector23:43
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles23:43
aazarthanks guys, that protective screen is really invisible!23:43
zakkmaazar: how much you pay?23:43
lcukthats the idea23:43
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aazarzakkm: not sure, from the company23:44
lcuki wonder if one day we will tell someone that and they will actually forcefully pop the lcd out23:44
zakkmlucky23:44
lcukzakkm, depends, he might have to run the entire companies webserver on there23:45
zakkmis that actually done?23:45
zakkmsounds weird.23:45
lcukhow do you think maemo.org works?23:45
zakkmmight as well just get simple pc parts.23:45
zakkmactually on a nokia?23:46
zakkmsounds odd23:46
lcuksilent computing, low heat, high density23:46
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zakkmso its plugged into like a wall for power 24/7?23:46
lcukjust because these machines CAN be carried around doesnt mean they have to be.   mines plugged in most of the time23:47
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zakkmBut they're weak for one23:50
zakkmEspecially the 770.23:50
qwerty12_N800grrr, i keep on having to rebuild gtk icon cache. i wondered why my n800 is still showing full battery even now23:51
lcukit shows you full battery because its scared of you23:51
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lcukyou keep plugging all these dangerous chargers into it23:52
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qwerty12_N800lol, i'm surprised it's still survived. i plugged in a dodgy usb cable i spliced together and the port is still working23:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, stop being evil. :P23:53
lcukheh23:53
* GeneralAntilles never got a reply from tekojo this morning.23:53
lcukThank you for promoting your package to Extras. It can take up to an hour for the package to show up in Extras23:55
Stskeepswoo23:56
Stskeepsliqbase?23:56
qwerty12_N800heh, it took a day or two for rootsh to show up there and it's not exactly the biggest package. but that was a long while ago23:56
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lcukyes :)23:56
lcukit will do for now, i cant get the package any cleaner and i need more time for larger changes23:57
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* GeneralAntilles sighs.23:57
lcuksighing?23:57
GeneralAntillesMy pet projects have all come screeching to a halt because of missing people.23:57
lcukheh23:57
* GeneralAntilles gets ready to take it out on the council.23:58
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: and that is why man invented companies, where you pay people to do it23:58
qwerty12_N800DUCK!23:58
Stskeeps:P23:58
Stskeeps(sad problem in open source projects really)23:58
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Veggenactually, it'll happen in commercial projects too.23:59
Veggenbut you'll just hear about those.23:59
Veggeneh, not.23:59
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nemohey folks. has anyone here tried the fennec alpha?23:59
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VeggenWe have a really cool and really good project at work, that we started some 4 years ago, but it seems never to finish because lack of prioritizing and time to do it.23:59
nemoI was wondering if it was less slooooow (as one review described it) if "browserd" was killed off first.23:59
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