IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-10-22

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qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, for os-v, is it required that the user has the 0option* of turning off the legal warning?00:02
qwerty12_N800-O00:02
GeneralAntillesNothing in particular is required00:02
GeneralAntillesYes, that's a patch I'd like to bundle with the community application manager, though.00:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: bootmenu preference btw - that when package is installed, it has flashed/fixed initfs?00:03
* GeneralAntilles fires off a "What the hell is with the goddamn servers?!" email to -community.00:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: or "install bootmenu" menu item00:03
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, my plan was to bundled only the bootmenu-capable initfs with osv-c.00:03
Stskeepsk00:04
qwerty12_N800My 1st simple patch works but i'm having problems with the one where i give the user the option00:04
GeneralAntillesand whether you see it or not would depend on your settings in the control panel.00:04
Stskeepsme and fanoush are discussing bootmenu a bit and how to go around making it more mainstream00:04
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GeneralAntillesI don't really have any opinions on how it should be done for regular osv00:04
Stskeeps(probably good i have fanoush to talk a bit to, i'd probably be a bit reckless else..)00:05
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, I'll get a Garage page up at some point and we can start collecting them and getting more people involved.00:05
GeneralAntilles--other than that I don't think the "Install bootmenu" .desktop is very elegant.00:05
Stskeepsprobably not, but it's a first step00:06
Stskeepsand it would (for diablo) be a mount initfs probably00:06
Stskeeps+remount rw00:06
qwerty12_N800Ok, ta, it would be nice. I've got the settings part sorted, just having troubles when it comes to the if statements for the actuall install process00:06
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qwerty12_N800Hmm, didn't know Tim has problems with his plumbing :p00:07
zakkmwhy would you need if statements in an install?00:10
zakkmyou already know the hardware, the configs, etc00:10
qwerty12_N800no no, i'm talking about the application manager like when it comes to install the application, if showlegal; etc if !showlegal; etc00:11
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mfinkle_nemo: it's probably not any faster, but it might take longer to run out of memory00:13
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lopzhi00:13
shapry000:13
nemomfinkle_: ah. 'cause the fennec dev I was chatting with (are you one?) blamed it on the memory allocation00:14
GeneralAntillesHa00:14
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/21/nokia-survey-finds-that-many-americans-work-on-the-can-the-defi/00:14
nemomfinkle_: he said that fennec still, at present, required about 60 megs, and with this whole preloading thing, the N810 only had about 40 free by default00:14
shaprI want to try fennec! Where is it?00:14
nemomfinkle_: personally, that seems like a lot of memory, my old laptop running seamonkey only needs like 15 megs for the suite00:14
GeneralAntillesshapr, still not in Extras-devel. . . . :P00:15
shaprbah00:15
Pavlov...00:15
Pavlov;p00:15
mfinkle_60 megs is way too high00:15
Pavlovyeah, 60 doesn't sound right at all00:15
mfinkle_especially for 1 tab open00:15
* qwerty12_N800 "durfs" with my tablet...00:15
GeneralAntillesIs that real MB or top "MB"?00:16
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mfinkle_shapr: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/fennec/1.0a1/releasenotes/ - 1 click install00:16
shapryay!00:16
* GeneralAntilles grumbles about the proliferation of 3rd-party repositories. . . .00:16
mfinkle_life is about 3rd parties00:17
mfinkle_(and we'll get there)00:17
GeneralAntilles3rd party repositories hurt developers and hurt users.00:17
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shaprhow so?00:17
GeneralAntilles(and hurt me :()00:18
GeneralAntillesBecause it makes it harder for users to find software, and increases the likely hood them damaging their system.00:18
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* qwerty12_N800 wishes numptyphysics guy would upload to diablo extras too - hate having to add chinook extras00:23
GeneralAntillesIt also makes my job harder, as instead of just saying to a user who wants to install x "Enable Extras and install x", I have to spend 5 minutes telling them how to add x's repository to h-a-m.00:23
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EgSGeneralAntilles: I'm pretty new to packing in general: what is needed to build a package of my app and make it available in an offical repo?00:25
GeneralAntilles~uploading-extras00:25
infobotit has been said that uploading-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras00:25
woglindeEgS you have to look at the debian news maintainer guide00:25
woglindewith some tweaks for maemo00:25
EgSGeneralAntilles: thanks00:25
EgSwoglinde: you mean regarding packing itself?00:26
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf00:26
qwerty12_N800lcuk, wee, now will i be able  to find the easter egg?00:26
GeneralAntilles~maemo-packaging is http://maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf00:26
infobotGeneralAntilles: okay00:26
EgSGeneralAntilles: thanks again :)00:26
qwerty12_N800(though i've seen what it is but...)00:27
Stskeepsgod, #android attracts more trolls than a bridge00:27
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Stskeepsatleast the troll level in this channel isn't that high00:27
GeneralAntillesWe only have to deal with Stskeeps. :P00:28
* shapr snickers00:28
EgSGeneralAntilles: is there a separate repo or some keyword for CVS builds?00:28
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah, but i'm not completely against maemo :P00:29
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps is just against the open-source parts.00:29
EgSGeneralAntilles: uhm... I think that sounded stupid... I meant CVS-style-builds... some sort of nightly builds00:30
GeneralAntillesEgS, Extras-devel is for unstable stuff00:30
GeneralAntilles~extras00:30
infobotfrom memory, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras00:30
GeneralAntillesMaybe not quite as unstable as nightlies, but alpha and beta stuff.00:30
EgSjeah but if you (the developer) sees that a new feature as reached some level of stability and usability one could build and upload a new package there to, right?00:32
EgS*has reached...00:32
GeneralAntillesSure00:33
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EgSthanks... I think I have to read up some stuff... until now I just upload the binary compiled in scratchbox to my webhost (well that was more a proof of concept that my app runs on maemo)00:35
* Stskeeps wonders why there hasn't been a maemo vs android flamewar on ITT yet00:35
Stskeepsthere's so much to grab at00:35
EgS:)00:35
Stskeepsthen again, they do target two different things00:35
inzSts, why don't you go create one?00:36
Stskeepsinz: i'm not that bored00:36
woglindeStskeeps hm because its to diffrent00:36
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, fingers crossed there isn't one. i hear so much shit with those threads00:36
inzSts, ...yet00:36
woglindejava vs. gtk00:36
woglindeglibc vs. bionic00:36
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qwerty12_N800heh00:37
EgSjava vs gtk? I thought it was Qt vs gtk ;)00:37
Stskeepsinz: heated discussions are only interesting if they have something constructive coming out of it :P00:37
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inzSts, so heated discussions are never interesting... ;)00:38
woglindeEgS android is using a java derivat00:38
EgSooh right... I already left the android topic behind :)00:39
woglindeegs today the source code was opened00:39
woglindetomorrow the deliver/selling of g1 begins00:39
EgSoh thats the cause for the increased android-noise :)00:41
zakkmandroid looks sick :)00:41
Stskeepswhat i will give maemo however, it's polished, it has seamless connectivity, a vibrant hacking community, "open" structure of maemo.org , interaction directly with community on forums and such, and quite a lot of flexibility for experimentation00:41
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MouseyStskeeps: and nobody's gonna rape your system if they find an application they deem "unworthy"00:41
VeggenStskeeps: google users are more of the kind that are happy to use what google gives them, even if it's just gratis and not free.00:42
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Veggennothing wrong with gratis, but people should be more educated. Some people will gladly do things they are not allowed to do with google property because they think they are allowed since google provides it for free...00:43
yacoobwhy would there be a maemo vs android flame/00:44
yacoobs#/#?#00:44
yacoobthose are different things00:44
gomiamyacoob: because some people like to flame for the hell of it.00:44
GeneralAntillesWell, so are the iPhone and the tablets.00:45
yacoobgomiam, okay, here's something more challenging: iPhone vs Easter.00:45
gomiamXD00:45
gomiamthat's an easy one: all iPhone users are heathens!00:45
yacoobnow iphone vs g1 flame would have a grain of sense in that00:45
yacoob(if it's g1, not android)00:46
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Stskeepsokay, my view on android is not so much the stuff itself, but the fact it's possible to adopt android to your device (arm only or x86 too), because the platform is open sourced. i can't easily build a maemo from scratch for another device00:46
GeneralAntillesIt still cracks me up that all of the G1 pictures on the net show it will a lopsided display.00:46
Stskeepsmaemo/ITOS00:46
Stskeepsand that is a bit of a game changer00:46
GeneralAntillesITOS is deprecated.00:47
woglindeStskeeps you can add other archs too00:47
GeneralAntillesIt's like the old iMac all over again.00:47
yacoobStskeeps, yeah. At the same time, all android software would have to be written from scratch00:47
woglindeI looked at the bionic stuff some minutes ago00:47
yacoobwhich is not that good either00:47
Stskeepsyacoob: that's true00:47
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Stskeepsand that's a force for maemo that it's "backwards compatible"00:47
Stskeeps(posix..)00:48
yacoobto turn it around yet again, there's nothing worse than desktop app "ported" to tablet without changing the interface... :)00:48
yacoobStskeeps, but users don't care. As in 'majority of users, that are at the same majority of cash flowing in'00:48
yacoobusers will use things that are a/ flashy, b/ easy to grasp, c/ doing 80% of the good job00:48
Stskeepsbut the fact they make apps from scratch, - we sortof do that too, we adopt with hildon to get power savings00:49
yacoobthe % of people that care about posix compability and fact that you can ssh to your device is not important, business-wise00:49
yacoobsadly, but eh.00:49
shaprI care!00:50
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Stskeepsand android is in a position where there would be a shared platform for many different devices, and new apps would work instantly on any of them - a comparison might be pocketpc/windows mobile, which, amazingly, has a lot of apps and users00:51
Stskeepsno matter how crappy the OS00:52
Stskeeps:P00:52
yacoobthat's very true. Say, have you seen Balmer today, fuming smoke and fire from his nostrils?00:52
glassStskeeps: yeah.. if it gets popular the vm could be ported to whatever00:52
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yacoobI've bought n810 as a palm replacement - to discover that it's get close, but sometimes not close enough :) I've probably start looking at android-powered something to replace n810 yet again, but that'd probably be end of next year00:53
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Stskeepsand actually, i'd rather see nokia see the possibility for maemo as well in this field, but they might be too late out now00:54
yacoobwhen we'll have choice, lots of software, and we'll perfectly know limitations00:54
yacooboh, and when they discover infinite batteries. That might take a bit longer than a year though... :)00:54
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GeneralAntillesI'd wait for Maemo 5 and the N900 if you're talking late next year. :P00:55
yacoobThat too :)00:56
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yacoob(but there's kind of a chance that I'll be getting Android anyway... from my employer)00:57
Stskeepswhat i'd really love to see nokia do is, realize maemo is a possibility for a general mobile device (non-phone, maybe voip) platform, research ways to easier port "desktop" apps (and not lay in bad hinderances/upstream incompatibilities), get off their high horse of closed source regarding seamless connectivity, ui items and such and live off the hardware and associated services, - so it's possible to make a maemo system from scratch, without in-maemo ...01:00
Stskeeps... special things like wayfinder/map, media players and other differentiators01:00
Stskeepsthat you can shop for and get from nokia for your own platform if you so desire, but provided along with tablets for free01:01
Stskeepsbut this is probably not a good thing in terms of business01:01
Stskeepsand cost of R&D01:01
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yacoobarent they doing exactly that for symbian?01:01
yacoob(pushing for universal mobile platform)01:02
GeneralAntillesI suspect Nokia has plans.01:02
Stskeepsyeah, maybe, but symbian is a bit akin to beating yourself with barbwire api wise afaik01:02
GeneralAntillesBut they're probably too far in the future to really make a difference.01:02
shaprI did some Symbian dev when the Nokia 9210 was new, it sucked bad.01:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: they could really make a game changer with wimax/3g, agreed01:03
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shaprStskeeps: Yes, for once I agree with you. Autoflagellation with barbed wire describes Symbian development.01:04
yacoobI have a feeling that maemo is kinf of a pet project at nokia01:05
yacooband they don't treat it very well01:05
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ljpperhaps a big pet01:05
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GeneralAntillesThey don't.01:05
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GeneralAntillesIt appears to be a bit of a running joke with the rest of the company.01:05
ljpnot as big as s40/s6001:05
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yacoobcorpo environment is perfect place for stuff like that happening :(01:06
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: phone companies are a funny bunch..01:06
yacoobwell, gotta go, battery almost empty01:06
Stskeepsor heavily engineer controlled ones01:06
ljphow does nokia not treat maemo well?01:06
GeneralAntillesApparently they've had some internal pilot programs to use the tablets as productivity tools01:06
GeneralAntilleswhich've failed miserably.01:07
GeneralAntillesljp, not enough resource allocation for one.01:07
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: if we skip 3-4 years ahead and pervasive computing has become daily life, nokia would have a ball with tablets and such01:07
ljpi think they have more people in maemo than all of qt software01:07
Stskeeps.. but that's a bit of a pipe dream01:08
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ljpcoming from the outside, nokia is a beast with a lot of processes and umm.. stuff01:08
GeneralAntillesljp, you work for Qt Software?01:09
ljpyes01:09
ljpworking on qt extended01:09
GeneralAntillesAgility is something big companies don't have.01:09
ljpi just think mameo and nokia needs to stramline and get better organized01:09
lardman|tvnight all01:09
ljpmaemo01:09
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yacoobif we skip 3-4 years ahead, I'd love to see fully distributed computing01:10
ljpstreamline01:10
* ljp needs better thumbs01:10
yacoobstorage in my backpack/jacket, computing power anywhere I go01:10
yacoobthat's so not going to happen, but hey, gotta have some dreams, right?01:10
Stskeepsyacoob: cyber foraging would certainly be a nice things01:10
Stskeeps-s01:10
Stskeepspeople at my uni research using nokia tablets in that01:10
yacoobany links you can give to read about it?01:11
Stskeepsyacoob: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rajesh/papers/sigops02.pdf01:12
Stskeeps(i think)01:12
yacoobthank you01:12
yacoobbut it's just not going to happen in 3 years, or at least not at the scale I'd like to see it01:13
yacoobwe don't even have technologies for that01:13
Stskeepsit's really getting tehre01:13
GeneralAntillesI want a major battery breakthrough between now and then.01:13
yacoobhopefully, I'm wishing it the best of luck :)01:14
Stskeepsa "cheap" tablet is a good step on the way01:14
GeneralAntillesBatteries are the achilles heel of mobile tech right now.01:14
woglindeGeneralAntilles right01:14
Stskeepsnokia got it right regarding some of the things to save power though01:14
Stskeepsi think 10 days idle is amazing, honestly01:14
woglindehm but the fuel battery should be ready in one year01:15
GeneralAntillesOr 30, if you're insane like fanoush. :D01:15
woglindethen this is solved too01:15
yacoobIf you haven't read Accelerando by Charles Stross, you might like it. It has gadgets like that ;) http://www.accelerando.org/_static/accelerando.html01:15
Fatalwhat was that 24h laptop HP had in store?01:15
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i think s2ram might have a renaissance when OHM comes in the picture01:15
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, how fast is it?01:15
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hm?01:15
Stskeepss2ram and wake?01:16
GeneralAntillesYeah01:16
Stskeepsquite fast, on n80001:16
Stskeepslike 2-3 secs01:16
Stskeepsmaybe less01:16
GeneralAntillesAssuming that you don't have any evil processes, does it actually provide a real benefit?01:16
yacoobnight, people01:16
GeneralAntillesnight01:16
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: s2ram? very deep sleep certainly helps on battery01:16
GeneralAntillesWell, I mean, with OMAP3, the CPU is turned off at idle anyway.01:17
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Stskeepsyeah, but in s2ram system doesn't wake up until user wants it or an alarm is set, so01:17
Stskeepswhich has advantages01:17
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GeneralAntillesKinda feels like a workaround to badly behaving processes.01:20
Stskeepswell a select(), timeout 60 seconds.. is that a badly behaving process?01:20
Stskeepseven that timeout will make a difference in battery time01:22
GeneralAntillesEh, fair enough.01:22
Stskeepsbut i dunno :P01:23
Stskeepsnot an engineer,s o01:23
Stskeeps:P01:23
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GeneralAntillesIntegrating it with s2ram might be nice.01:23
GeneralAntilleser01:23
GeneralAntilless/s2ram/soft poweroff.01:23
qwerty12_N800Can't do shit w/out code (s2ram is closed too) :/01:24
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: the .sh works01:24
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, really? never tried it01:24
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i used it in ireland01:25
qwerty12_N800ah, ok, i'll grab it now01:25
GeneralAntillesIt's just the watchdogs being evil, right?01:25
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah, but i kinda wonder cos it did manage to stay asleep for several hours at once, without system waking up as far as i could see01:26
Stskeepsfor kicking watchdog01:27
GeneralAntillesFile an enhancement request about it?01:27
Stskeepsi think the primary s2ram problem was dsp related, so dsptasks should finish running before s2ram or something01:28
GeneralAntillesOutline what you can of the issue and file a bug.01:28
Stskeepsand stuff like OHM would help this01:28
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GeneralAntillesUnlikely to be fixed for Diablo, but maybe Fremantle.01:28
GeneralAntillesNothing's going to change, anyway, if they're not aware of the problem. ;)01:28
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Stskeepswell it's not so much a maemo bug honestly01:29
Stskeepsit's an architecture "feature"01:29
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Stskeepsand when they get upstart+ohm, it will be a matter of signaling to dsp tasks to shut down for suspend to ram01:29
GeneralAntillesOutline the requirements for having s2ram work in Fremantle.01:29
woglindenite01:29
GeneralAntillesJust do whatever you need to do to make Eero aware. :P01:30
Stskeeps"GeneralAntills told me to write this at gun point"?01:30
Stskeeps+e01:30
GeneralAntillesExactly.01:30
Stskeepsadded to my todo :P01:31
GeneralAntillesMake sure you CC David and Eero.01:32
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Stskeepswill you pester them about DSME then? :P i really wonder about nokia is fooling around with these days regarding upstart and ohm though.. and it's a shame their OS work isn't public like HAF01:34
GeneralAntillesQuim said it's waiting on David to find the time to finish up.01:35
qwerty12_N800By finishing up, taking stuff out ...01:35
GeneralAntillesWell, there's been some stuff removed.01:36
GeneralAntilles(which Quim doesn't seem to think is a bad thing)01:36
Stskeepsoh, right, i should add "document CAL" to my todo01:36
Stskeepsthink i have all the stuff to read/write now01:36
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, qwerty12_N800: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158401:37
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GeneralAntillesDSME brightness bullshit: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126101:37
qwerty12_N800Thanks01:37
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GeneralAntillesNow that's gone and made me pissy about Nokia not participating in Bugzilla.01:38
* GeneralAntilles sighs again.01:38
* Stskeeps goes write libaltcal or something01:38
* lcuk ponders01:39
* GeneralAntilles now has room for two more monitors.01:39
GeneralAntillesToo bad I'm out of graphics cards.01:39
lcukheh what did u toss01:39
GeneralAntillesRearranged things a bit and moved one (with the Mac mini) to the bedroom.01:40
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: does any other nokia phones do CAL btw?01:40
lcukfor a minute there i read that a s bathroom01:40
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, nah01:40
GeneralAntilleslcuk, if I owned my own home it so totally would be.01:40
GeneralAntillesHome theater in the tub01:41
lcuki dont doubt it01:41
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lcukis liqbase in extras yet?  i cant refresh list on either machine01:41
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GeneralAntillesAppears so: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/l/liqbase/01:42
lcuk:)01:42
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qwerty12_N800Yes, it has appeared in http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/binary-armel/Packages01:43
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lcuk:) again thx qwerty12_N80001:46
qwerty12_N800heh, just upgraded :)01:47
qwerty12_N800someone should prod maemo ftp guy to upload to extras01:48
qwerty12_N800lcuk, wut is http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5854/liq20081021234506unameafh0.png btw?01:49
lcukheh :D01:49
lcukan unfinished experiment01:50
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qwerty12_N800:p01:50
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lcukqwerty12_N800, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=232068&postcount=12201:51
lcukand i was meant to replace it last night with something (part of the easter egg) but ran out of time and i had a line drawn :)01:51
lcukit can wait01:51
qwerty12_N800i see, thanks01:52
qwerty12_N800heh01:52
lcuko/01:52
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lcukdamn these ascii men01:52
lcukdoin that in msn messenger got me an old man waving his cane01:52
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qwerty12_N800wow, didn't know msn could predict futures01:53
lcukqwerty12_N800, is the flash working on the camera btw01:53
lcuk:D01:54
qwerty12_N800lcuk, yeah :)01:54
qwerty12_N800:D01:54
lcukis liqbase multimedia01:54
qwerty12_N800?01:54
qwerty12_N800oh01:55
lcukcategory for maemo.org listing01:55
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lcukhow do i make a .install file, or dont i01:56
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qwerty12_N800you should set brightness to full before doing the flash :D but would take a  lot of time01:56
zakkmYou guys think the price of the N800 will lower considerably some time soon?01:56
GeneralAntillesNo01:56
qwerty12_N800lcuk, the maemo catalogue can do it for you iurc01:56
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qwerty12_N800*iirc01:56
GeneralAntillesSeeing how there's now a fixed supply.01:56
lcukyeah thought so01:56
GeneralAntilleslcuk, what section is the package in?01:56
qwerty12_N800if not, edit another page and steal theirs and just change the package name01:57
qwerty12_N800Section: user/other01:57
lcukuser/other01:57
qwerty12_N800(dpkg -s ftw)01:57
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lcuki still had the page up you linked to before01:58
GeneralAntillesStill no build numbers in the version string. :P01:58
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GeneralAntillesUnrelated, why does nobody ever use the updating field when packaging?01:59
qwerty12_N800lcuk, btw, you dont display text boxes during install right (eg northerners speak funny...)?01:59
lcukno..01:59
lcuksvn rm ...01:59
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lcukthough the .qwerty ones are there02:00
qwerty12_N800remove the maemo-installer-utils dependecy then02:00
qwerty12_N800hehe02:00
GeneralAntillesTo packagers: http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/packaging-stable.html02:00
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GeneralAntillesActually, the "Package maintainer harassment" wiki page sounds like a better and better idea.02:01
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qwerty12_N800Oops, i've been formatting my Maemo-Icon-26 wrong02:01
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GeneralAntillesHrm, maybe emails is the wrong approach02:07
ljpyes! send a fax!02:09
GeneralAntillesHehe, well, I'm thinking a general outline of some Maemo packaging quirks is better than a bunch of emails to sent to packagers who aren't using them correctly.02:12
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qwerty12_N800night02:20
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lcukhttps://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/02:27
GeneralAntillesShitty first draft: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging#Sections02:34
GeneralAntillesIf somebody wants to jump in.02:34
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fie3So how about this one? http://www.semsons.com/ibhiseaublgp.html02:37
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Macer_hi02:38
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GeneralAntillesfie3, why not get the one I linked?02:39
`Macewhat a let down.. vmware esx only supports like 3 types of nics02:39
fie3GeneralAntilles, That one is high-sensitivity.... so I can use it inside.... hopefully.02:39
GeneralAntillesUm02:39
GeneralAntillesi-blue 737 works just fine inside.02:39
`Maceintel ... braodcomm and some other one.. forget which one02:39
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fie3GeneralAntilles, oh really?02:40
GeneralAntillesYeah02:40
GeneralAntillesIt's a great unit.02:40
fie3There's like 8 different 737s02:40
fie3greater time for acquisition?02:40
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GeneralAntillesThere are older ones and newer ones02:40
fie3if you're inside?02:40
GeneralAntillesThe one on amazon is newer02:41
GeneralAntillesa little02:41
GeneralAntillesIt holds a lock fine once it's got it, though.02:41
fie3I"m just looking at my options... the prices aren't too much different.02:41
fie3GeneralAntilles, it's actually from the same store..02:41
GeneralAntilles5Hz might not be a bad purchase.02:42
fie35Hz? What does that relate to?02:42
GeneralAntillesIt can report 5 times a second02:42
fie3Oooo02:42
GeneralAntillesas opposed to just 1Hz with normal units.02:42
fie3Higher refresh rate... that's cool.02:42
GeneralAntillesNot any more accurate or faster, per se02:43
fie3GeneralAntilles, Have you seen the iphone gps?02:43
fie3It's shit.02:43
GeneralAntillesbut it'll give you smoother tracks.02:43
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fie3It's like maybe one refresh every 2 or 3 seconds.02:43
MouseyHOLY CRAPOLA, my n810 was REPAIRED AND IS COMING HOME!!02:43
* Mousey scurries around, busily setting up homecoming party!02:44
Mouseysorry to interrupt.. i just can't think of another channel that would even remotely care02:44
fie3Mousey, what was the issue?02:45
Mouseyfie3: dead screen02:45
fie3Mousey, ouch02:45
Mouseyyah, second time02:45
fie3cause?02:45
GeneralAntillesDisplay cable02:45
GeneralAntillesSeems to be an issue with N810s. . . .02:45
Mouseynah, it was weird, it had weird lines and colors02:45
GeneralAntillesOh?02:45
GeneralAntillesWell, could still be the cable.02:45
fie3GeneralAntilles, WOW http://www.semsons.com/i737blgps5hz.html  2.5m02:45
`Macei thought the battery was the cause of such things?02:45
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Mouseynow i can think about getting that 32GB MicroSD card i've always wanted02:46
GeneralAntilles`Mace, what does the battery have to do with the LCD?02:46
Mouseywell the stylus is the key02:46
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lopzhi02:47
Mouseybecause it's between the battery and the lcd, warding off evil spirits02:47
fie3o-O02:47
fie3lol02:47
fie3Anyone else have the power button issue?02:47
GeneralAntillesPower button issue?02:49
Mouseynope, just you02:49
ljppower button issue is when your 1 year old keeps pushing hte power button?02:50
Mouseyoh, i thought power button issues were soemthing you got a power button shrink for02:50
GeneralAntillesThese days they just give you a pill for it.02:51
`MaceGeneralAntilles: could have sworn there was a known issue with the battery causing the lcd to do that02:51
`Macei have the same problem on my n80002:51
Mouseymy lcd was seriously b0rk'd02:51
`Macelines going across the screen02:51
`Macecolorful lines02:51
Mouseywell these lines wen down the screen, and only in one corner02:51
Mouseywen=went02:51
`Macehave to yank the battery for a bit and put it back in to get it going again02:52
Mouseyi'm gonna be sad if my tablet breaks again, its almost outta warranty! ;_;02:52
Mouseyi can't wait to get it back and mess with the randr stuff and this liqbase thing that keeps getting hyped.02:53
Mousey =)02:53
Mouseynow if i could just print!02:53
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fie3GeneralAntilles, When I first got my n810 the power button wouldn't work.02:56
fie3I'd sit there and press it for about 10 minutes then it would finally work.02:56
GeneralAntillesOh, the NOLO issue, maybe?02:56
GeneralAntillesThat didn't affect many N810s.02:56
GeneralAntillesIt was primarily an N800 issue02:56
GeneralAntillesand it's long be fixed, anyway.02:56
fie3I had the problem initially... the first thing I did after I got it turned on was upgrade the software.02:57
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fie3and still had the problem.02:57
GeneralAntillesNot the NOLO issue then.02:57
GeneralAntillesNever heard of it.02:57
lcuk:D my easter egg was discovered02:58
fie3Apparently the battery had died on it anyway, finally after plugging the power in about 80 times it started charging up then finally when I got it turned on it was corrupted or something.... it would boot and then end up going to a white screen that I remember would like change if you pressed the screen or something like that. I dunno.02:59
fie3But I reinstalled the OS again and it finally started working properly.03:00
GeneralAntillesOdd03:00
fie3That's what I said!03:02
fie3actually it was more like ARRRGGGG>:(03:02
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lcukWOW! http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=235516&postcount=3703:30
lcukits started, shit03:30
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GeneralAntillesAnybody else not get a .desktop when installing fuelpad?04:11
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GeneralAntillesIs there a way to figure out who actually uploaded a package?04:32
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lcuk[2008-10-21 23:45:08] Processing package liqbase 0.1.5. Uploader: lcuk, builder: builder104:34
lcukyes GeneralAntilles04:34
lcuklook on the summary log for the package04:34
lcukhttps://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/liqbase_0.1.5/summary.log04:34
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GeneralAntillesClearly ntp-doc was not uploaded by an Ubuntu mailing list.04:39
GeneralAntillesWhere the hell is the package? :\04:39
* mgedmin crashes liqbase04:42
mgedmintwice now04:42
lcuk:O how04:42
mgedminI tried to draw the lowercase a04:43
mgedminand it stopped responding to my input04:43
mgedminthe second time, I tried to select a book04:43
mgedminand it crashed04:43
lcukthat doesnt sound healthy, could you mail me the log from ~/.liqbase/liqbase.run.log please (unless you restarted liqbase since)04:44
mgedminrestarted04:45
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lcukdang, if it happens again (i really hope not) could you send it me then please04:46
mgedminhey, where's less?04:46
lcukas in the shell cmd?04:47
mgedminyup04:47
lcuki dunno04:47
mgedminnot in extras, not in extras-devel04:47
lcukyou should know by now im not a shell guru :P04:47
* mgedmin is surprised04:47
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mgedminok, found it in04:50
mgedminok, found it in http://maemo.org/development/tools/04:50
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mgedminstupid x copy/paste04:51
disco_stuhi04:51
lcukmgedmin, copy and paste is a nightmare04:51
disco_stuneed help04:51
lcukhey there disco_stu, what can we do for you04:51
* lcuk feels cheesy now04:51
disco_stulcuk: i'm running os2008 chinook in my n80004:51
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disco_stuand i want rotate support for the screen04:52
disco_stuso i went trough this guide: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_To:_Enable_screen_rotation_on_OS2008_/_N80004:52
disco_stubut one download is no longer working04:52
disco_stuso i cant install al the things i need04:52
GeneralAntillesoutpo.st/rotate04:53
GeneralAntillesInstall Diablo first, though.04:53
solcaHi! does somebody knows why there are some missing debs in the diablo repository?04:53
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solcahttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/e/e2fsprogs/04:53
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: wow is an honour read you, i see you on itt04:53
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disco_stuthe things is i dont want to install diablo04:53
GeneralAntillesWhy not?04:53
lcukChinook04:53
lcukI do not support Chinook anymore. If you still really use it, contact me for further instructions.04:53
GeneralAntillessolca, bizarre04:54
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i'm a bit busy right now04:54
disco_stubesides i've not read a lot, but i saw some people were having issues with diablo on n80004:54
GeneralAntillesIt works fine here.04:55
GeneralAntillesBrowser's a lot faster04:55
lcukdisco_stu, diablo is fine, but i understand if you dont want to upgrade, but at this time without contacting the site owner you cannot continue with rotation04:55
solcaGeneralAntilles: do you know if there is some kind of build logs04:55
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't mess with rotation until you have time to install Diablo, though.04:55
solcamaybe it fails to build04:55
GeneralAntillessolca, fwiw, though, e2fsprogs is in Extras.04:55
disco_stuok.. i'll take your advice04:56
GeneralAntillessolca, that's the SDK repository, those don't go through the builder.04:56
disco_stubtw.. have you tried maemoWoL ?04:56
lcukdisco_stu, sorry about that and all, but i can understand why it all changed04:56
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solcaok, fwiw yesterday I check extrasn and e2fsprogs wasn't there04:56
GeneralAntilleshttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/e/e2fsprogs/04:57
lcukdisco_stu, i dunno, have you tried liqbase http://liqbase.net http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/04:57
GeneralAntillesSorry, Extras-devel.04:57
disco_stulcuk: no04:57
lcukcool, can i get my n810 to wake up if it gets a ping?04:58
disco_stui made maemoWoL, so i was expecting some feedback, but nobody at maemo.org/downloads gives a comment04:58
lcukor is it more for a server environment where you want to wakeup your mates computer?04:58
disco_stulcuk: yo use your IT to turn on other computers in the network04:58
disco_stuyes04:58
solcaGeneralAntilles: thanks! there it is04:59
GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, put it in Extras! :D04:59
GeneralAntillesYou'll get much more notice, then.04:59
GeneralAntilles~uploading-extras04:59
infobothmm... uploading-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras04:59
disco_stuok04:59
* GeneralAntilles doesn't sleep any of his machines.04:59
disco_stuhaha04:59
disco_stui do.. :)04:59
mgedminwake on lan is nice05:00
disco_stumgedmin: did you try maemoWoL ?05:00
mgedminno05:00
GAN800Well, one machine is a DVR, so it'd just wake itself up whenever the next schedule was set anyway, and the other's a server. Soooo. ;)05:01
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GAN800How do other people feel about user/navigation?05:02
GAN800Nokia seems to think it should be a valid section05:02
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: how much faster is the browser ?05:02
GAN800I'm not totally in disagreement.05:02
disco_stui've tweaked mine..05:02
GAN800disco_stu, quite a bit faster than the version in Chinook.05:02
disco_stuGAN800: flash is better too ?05:03
GAN800Application manager is also a lot faster and nicer.05:03
disco_stui'll have to give it a try05:03
disco_stui'll have an spare battery soon05:04
GAN800Flash benefits from the overall browser improvements, but I don't think the plugin was updated all that much.05:04
disco_stu:)05:04
mgedminmaemoWoL: nice, but if I'm in the same WLAN as the machines, I can usually just walk over and turn them on05:05
* mgedmin uses wake on lan to ssh into his home router and wake his desktop on demand05:05
GAN800Less CPU going to js is more for Flash, etc. ;)05:05
mgedminanyone played with the most recent fennec alpha?05:05
mgedminis it really as sluggish as it appeared in that video?05:05
solcamgedmin: yeah, useless for me now05:07
disco_stumgedmin: maemoWoL: nice, but if I'm in the same WLAN as the machines, I can usually just walk over and turn them on <-- sometimes i dont like to get out from bed just to vnc my moms desk05:07
mgedminvery true05:07
disco_stuand i was angry that the iphone had a wol app and my n800 didnt05:08
mgedminwow05:09
mgedminyour anger is productive05:09
mgedminhave you tried being angry that your n800 didn't have hardware 3d accel?05:09
cars__mgedmin: I'd like to do WoL (vnc/rdesktop) as well05:09
disco_stumgedmin: i know my limitations..05:09
disco_stuhahaha05:09
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disco_stucars__: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/maemowol/05:10
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disco_stui would like to scale down vnc sessions to fit the lcd05:10
disco_stuthis maybe the next thing to work on05:11
disco_stumy english is so rust !! sorry for that05:11
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disco_stui made a little app to work with cidr blocks and masks05:13
disco_stumaybe is useful to anyone05:13
disco_stuchinook was such a nice name, and they had to blew it with 'diablo'05:14
disco_stui sounds bad05:14
disco_stui/it/t05:14
mgedminas a network engineer's tool, a nit has almost everything, except for wired ethernet...05:14
cars___I'll add WoL to the list of things (ssh, vnc, etc.) that I need to learn how to use and install for this to be really fun.05:15
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disco_stucars__: you can add openvpn, pptp and hamachi05:16
disco_stu:)05:16
disco_stumgedmin: what tools do you use for cidr tasks ?05:16
disco_stumgedmin: speaking about the IT05:16
cars__Hamachi works on the NIT?05:16
disco_stucars__: yes05:16
mgedmindisco_stu: ssh ;-)05:17
* mgedmin is not a real network engineer05:17
disco_stuhahaha !05:17
mgedminand my networks usually are /2405:17
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cars__By the way, is there a consistent way of making the finger on-screen keyboard to display on my n810?05:18
GeneralAntillesCenter dpad05:18
GeneralAntillesBut the N81005:18
GeneralAntillessux05:18
GeneralAntillesso, no.05:18
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GeneralAntillesJust gotta get the feel for the thumb touch down.05:18
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: why the n810 sux ?05:19
GeneralAntillesTerrible dpad location.05:19
cars__I've had it display a couple times, but never with any consistency.05:19
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: oh05:19
disco_stuyou have to slide to acces the key05:20
GeneralAntillesWhich means you can't use it to activate the finger keyboard.05:20
disco_stui see05:20
cars__But it's happened before with the keyboard closed, so there has to be another way of doing it.05:20
mgedminthumb press on an input field is supposed to show the thumb kb05:20
disco_stumgedmin: that never worked to me in my n80005:21
disco_stunever ever..05:21
mgedminbut really I found that I needed more force than I was comfortable using to get that to reliably work05:21
mgedminso I don't use the thumb kb05:21
GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, Diablo fixes that.05:22
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: :)05:23
cars__Couldn't there be a way to fool the OS to think that the keyboard is closed when it's open and then pressing the center dpad?05:23
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: is suspend available.. or you manage the same way that in Chinook05:23
GeneralAntillesSuspend?05:24
GeneralAntillesYou mean like s2ram or suspend to disk?05:24
mgedminisn't there a gconf key that some daemon toggles whenever you slide|unslide?05:24
GeneralAntillesYes05:24
GeneralAntillesmce or dsme05:24
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: some kind of mechanism to suspend the NIT05:25
GeneralAntillesThere's locking or soft poweroff.05:25
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GeneralAntillesThey both lock input, don't really suspend things, though.05:25
disco_stui wanted rotation :'(05:26
summatusmentisanyone want to buy an n810?05:26
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: where can i get themes for the NIT05:27
GeneralAntillesdownloads.maemo.org05:27
cars__Or could I remap the center-dpad key to something else?  If so, could that setting be toggled upon keyboard slideout?05:27
GeneralAntillesand there are some scattered about itT.05:27
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i've found two or three05:27
disco_stuthere arent any more ?05:27
GeneralAntillesThere aren't that many, really.05:27
GeneralAntillesPlankton and LCARS are the two biggest departures.05:28
disco_stunuvoclear2 is the one i use05:28
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cars__Has there been any success with remapping keys like this?05:30
disco_stucars__: i've not tested.. but i shouldnt be a problem05:31
disco_stuwe are running Linux :)05:31
cars__disco_stu: Any suggestions on where I can start?05:33
johnxxmodmap05:34
disco_stuhttp://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_SetupKeyboard/05:35
disco_stuyou can read this05:35
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* GeneralAntilles is done harassing package maintainers for the night.05:36
* GeneralAntilles still needs to bug INdT about Maemo-Display-Name.05:37
johnxdisco_stu, that's pretty old. does it still apply?05:37
disco_stui think yes..05:37
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: in wich country do you live ?05:40
GeneralAntillesFlorida, USA05:40
disco_stunice place05:41
GeneralAntillesFinally cooling down enough to turn off the AC05:41
summatusmentisI sometimes wish Florida were a country, then we wouldn't have to worry about hanging chads05:41
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: here summer is beginning05:41
disco_stu:)05:41
GeneralAntillessummatusmentis, Florida gets a bad rap from a few idiots.05:42
GeneralAntillesThe state is, by and large, a nice place with nice people.05:42
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: all the old ones?05:42
* GeneralAntilles is too bored for trolling.05:43
summatusmentisno, I enjoyed FL while I was there, but I got tired of the excessive amount of tourism stuff on the beaches05:44
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i daily see in the news that USA has a lot of economics trouble05:44
disco_stuor is a lie ?05:44
GeneralAntillesEh, you wouldn't know it on the street.05:44
GeneralAntillesThe financial market aint doin' so hot.05:45
GeneralAntillesBut it's not just the US.05:45
GeneralAntillesThe UK bailed out their own banking system to the tune of £400 billion.05:45
SmackPotati want a bail out05:46
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disco_stunobody here from argentina ?05:49
GeneralAntillesLot from Brazil05:49
disco_stupythones05:49
disco_stupythoners..05:49
cars__disco_stu, johnx: I'm checking out that keyboard documentation, but the xmodmap download I see is for OS2007.05:50
johnxcommand line programs from os2007 should probably work on os200805:50
cars__GeneralAntilles: Don't forget Iceland.  They're bankrupt.05:50
cars__johnx: OK, I'll give it a shot.05:50
disco_stuNokia-N800-51-3:~# apt-cache search xmodmap05:51
disco_stuxmodmap - X input map modification05:51
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disco_stu#apt-get install xmodmap05:51
disco_stushould do the trick :P05:51
cars__hehe, I forgot to try the obvious.05:52
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: what ideas colud you give.. for a new app for maemo05:52
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: something we're a missing..05:53
disco_stui dont know05:53
GeneralAntilleslardman & co could use some GUI help with maemo-barcode05:53
disco_stui'll sneak at palm software donwloads and steal some ideaz06:02
disco_stu.. :D06:02
GeneralAntillesAudio compression on HD commercials is obscene.06:03
disco_stu?06:03
GeneralAntillesCommercials are way too loud.06:04
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i'm cracking my neighbourhood with Supertramp06:04
disco_stusure they are pissed06:04
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: do know about Java in maemo ?06:05
GeneralAntillesNot anywhere useful yet.06:06
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: what is the best thing to do with a NIT06:07
disco_stumaybe i dont know.. :S06:07
GeneralAntillesIRC on the can?06:07
disco_stutranslate..06:07
GeneralAntillesHaha06:07
GeneralAntillesYou probably don't want to know. :P06:07
disco_stui didnt get it06:07
disco_stuhit me06:08
disco_stugo ahead06:08
GeneralAntillesSlang term for "bathroom".06:08
disco_stuhaha06:08
disco_stuwww.notiblog.com <-- good argentinian meat :D06:09
disco_stufor export06:09
GeneralAntillesMaybe relevant: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Personal_Accounts06:09
disco_stuyou just called my newbie06:10
disco_stuhaha06:10
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i mostly do the same things06:19
disco_stubut here i cant show it too much, because there a lot of burglars06:19
GeneralAntillesOuch06:21
disco_stuthe street is a jungle06:21
GeneralAntillesYou need to fill one of the SD slots with C4. :P06:21
GeneralAntillesA tablet for your hands06:22
disco_stui mostly use it on campus where wifi is very good06:22
disco_stuits a shame how n800 screen is barely legible under sun light06:23
GeneralAntillesGot a screen protector?06:24
disco_stuyes06:25
GeneralAntillesThat'd be why it's "barely legible" and not "completely illegible" then? :P06:25
disco_stuhaha06:25
disco_stuits an average quality one06:25
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disco_stun810 is much better under sunlight i heard06:25
GeneralAntillesYeah, transflective.06:26
disco_stu:(06:26
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: file manager is a pain06:27
GeneralAntillesNo kidding06:28
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: any tip on that ?06:28
GeneralAntillesI use sftp, usually.06:28
GeneralAntillesemelfm2 is OK, too.06:30
disco_stuyes emelfm2 has been my option since i discovered it06:30
disco_stustill needs speed06:30
disco_stuis the worst in maemo06:30
disco_stufile manager06:30
disco_stus06:31
GeneralAntillesI just use a GUI sftp client from a real computer to do file management.06:32
GeneralAntillesFUSE with sshfs might also work.06:32
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disco_stuwith a pc is easy.. the problem is when you are alone with the IT06:33
GeneralAntillesI try to avoid flie management then. ;)06:33
disco_stulol06:34
disco_stustupid chinook i want to rotate it06:34
disco_stubut the fucking file is off the internet06:34
disco_stui'll be flashing soon..06:35
GeneralAntillesIt'll be worth it. ;)06:35
disco_stuwhat you use, n800 or n810 ?06:35
GeneralAntilles770 and N80006:36
disco_stu770 i saw one once06:37
disco_stui love the hardcover06:37
disco_stuthe stupid sock of the n800 is shit06:37
GeneralAntillesI prefer the kickstand06:37
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GeneralAntillesThey're durable devices06:37
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i needs more angle06:37
GeneralAntillesas long as you don't keep metal shaving in your pockets06:37
GeneralAntillesN810's kickstand goes back more.06:38
disco_stukickstand needs more angle for my taste06:38
disco_stuthats good06:38
cars__Has anyone else found their n810 kickstand to become loose?06:38
GeneralAntillesMy N800's kickstand is a bit loose.06:38
disco_stuyou could fix it06:39
disco_stuwhite the proper torx06:39
disco_stui guess..06:39
doc|homeI'm with disco_stu, the angle's no good06:39
* doc|home dances06:39
GeneralAntillesHard to find torx06:39
cars__Especially one that small.06:39
GeneralAntillesHehe, well, what I mean to say "that's a hard to find torx size"06:40
GeneralAntillesNot that torx are necessarily hard to find in general (you can get a good set at Radio Shack or Home Depot here)06:40
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: 8000km away home06:41
disco_stu:|06:42
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cars__We don't have a very good hardware store here.  I would be lucky to find torx, and any torx I would find would be relatively very large,  We do have a Radio Shack, but it's basically a glorified AT&T/Sprint/Dish Network outlet.  Besides, they have a 300% markup on everything.06:44
GeneralAntillesMore like 600%06:44
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GeneralAntillesNot too terrible for a $2 set of screw drivers, though. ;)06:44
cars__Ah, is it that high now?  I try to avoid it.06:45
GeneralAntillesWhich is sad06:45
GeneralAntillesIt'd be a cool place if the prices weren't so horrifyingly outrageous06:45
cars__They used to be a pretty good store.06:45
cars__But that was at least 15 years ago.06:46
GeneralAntillesI could really go for a retail version of newegg.06:46
cars__I agree.  The only thing around here that was mildly close was CompUSA, and they're bankrupt now.06:47
GeneralAntillesBest Buy is just so horrifyingly awful.06:48
GeneralAntillesI went in there to buy a game and the cashier basically called me an idiot because I didn't sign up for their rewards program or buy a warranty.06:48
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: did you beat that guy ?06:49
GeneralAntillesWoman06:50
GeneralAntillesI came close06:50
cars__it is.  And Circuit City is even worse.  It's very dark and gloomy there, and when I asked a clerk a question, he lied and made something up rather than saying he didn't know.06:50
GeneralAntillesbut figured it probably wasn't worth making a scene over.06:50
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: you could grab a boob a least06:50
disco_stuhaha06:50
GeneralAntillesI actually prefer Circuit City06:50
GeneralAntillesThe clerks don't harass you and there isn't insanely loud music blasting all the time.06:50
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: how old are you ?06:51
GeneralAntilles2106:51
disco_stuyou sound like my dad06:51
disco_stulol06:51
disco_stuyou re younger than i06:51
disco_stu:(06:51
GeneralAntillesHehe06:51
GeneralAntillesWhen are the new servers coming?06:54
GeneralAntillesThis is getting a touch ridiculous.06:54
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: what servers ?06:54
disco_stuCSS ?06:54
GeneralAntillesmaemo.org06:55
GeneralAntillesWiki isn't working06:55
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: do you use claws for email ?06:56
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* disco_stu storms GeneralAntilles with stupid questions..06:57
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GeneralAntillesNah, Claws sucks for finger use06:57
GeneralAntillesModest.06:57
disco_stuosso-email then ?06:58
disco_stuah modest06:58
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GeneralAntillesAnother Diablo improvement.06:59
disco_stuyou sound like you've sold your soul06:59
disco_stulol06:59
GeneralAntillesHehe06:59
GeneralAntillesThe codenames are winds06:59
disco_stuwell i'm gonna with the bed07:02
disco_stui'll be here tomorrow, nice chat :)07:03
disco_stusee you07:03
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* GeneralAntilles hates Comcast so much.07:25
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* Proteous does tooooo07:27
GeneralAntillesIs it too much to ask for an internet connection that actually works?07:27
Proteousseems so07:27
Proteouswell, from comcast anyway07:27
ProteousDSL extreme FTW07:27
GeneralAntillesI have Brighthouse back home07:27
GeneralAntilles15/207:27
GeneralAntillesworks great all the time07:27
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fie2GeneralAntilles, Kay well I'm going with the one you said07:52
GeneralAntillesYou wont regret it!07:52
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lopznight08:13
fie2GeneralAntilles, once you get a fix you can just drop it in your pocket right?08:16
fie2If you're walking...08:16
GeneralAntillesOr just leave it in your pocket08:16
GeneralAntillesIt'll get a fix through denim08:16
fie2Wish the n810 could charge through USB08:18
GeneralAntillesThere's an adaptor08:18
GeneralAntillesUSB doesn't really provide enough juice.08:18
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GeneralAntillesNokia didn't have any other USB-charging devices when the N810 was developed, anyway.08:19
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fie2hmm08:23
GeneralAntillesWell, it doesn't make sense for Nokia to use a charger on only one device08:25
fie2Sure it does.08:27
fie2then they could start using it on other things.08:27
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fie2err..... if you meant charging through usb08:28
fie2anyway08:28
fie2it's time for bed.08:28
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usicowI've got an N810, what are my options for getting internet access via bluetooth when the machine that has the internet connection is running XP?10:03
GeneralAntillesPAN10:03
GeneralAntilles~bluetooth-pan10:03
infobotbluetooth-pan is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN10:03
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AStormhello10:04
AStormI've a question about grabbing ppp configuration from maemo10:04
usicowthanks GeneralAntilles10:04
AStormsee, I'm trying to copy the BT DUN settings to my laptop - bluez is now set up and paired correctly10:05
AStormbut I'm missing ppp settings :)10:05
AStormesp. chat string10:05
GeneralAntillesusicow, the tablet-side of things should be fairly straightforward. Not sure about XP.10:05
GeneralAntillesAStorm, have you tried hitting it with a stick?10:05
qwerty12AStorm: if you mean about getting settings for an already added connection, look in gconf10:06
AStormqwerty12: hmmm10:06
AStormbut there won't be all there, right?10:06
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, you've got another mention coming up on planet. :P10:06
AStormI can grab the user name, password and number all right10:06
AStormthe chat string is what I'm missing10:06
AStormand I suspect that won't be in gconf10:06
qwerty12AStorm: probably not. there's a package which has the list of operators. I'd dig it up for you but I really have to *go*10:07
AStormI'll try the default Hayes, might work10:07
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: lol, why?10:07
AStorm:)10:07
AStormI suspect chat string is more related to the device than ISP10:07
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, nothing exciting, but you'll see.10:07
qwerty12ok10:07
qwerty12Bye10:07
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AStormhmm10:07
AStormso I'll have to guess through phone's AT command set. Ouch.10:08
GeneralAntillesThe tablets make it too easy to set up DUN.10:08
GeneralAntillesThere should be more suffering.10:08
AStormharhar10:09
AStormI just want the chat string for ppp they're using10:09
AStormit's not stored in some config file... apparently10:09
GeneralAntilles"Hit it with a stick" is the beginning and end of my suggestions.10:09
AStormhit *what*? ;P10:09
GeneralAntillesHit up -developers?10:09
GeneralAntillesBoth things?10:09
AStormhahaha, that won't work10:09
GeneralAntillesFirst one, then the other?10:09
AStormreally, that will only destroy both10:10
AStormand then I'll have no internet connection at all10:10
AStorm= fail10:10
AStorm;P10:10
GeneralAntillesWell, you don't have to hit them HARD10:10
GeneralAntillesjust enough to let 'em know who's boss.10:10
AStormthat wasn't funny enough for some reason10:10
AStormwhile maemo-developers will take ages10:11
GeneralAntillesPatrik Flykt is probably the guy you're after.10:11
AStormI have enough problems with current connection to even *consider* using BT DUN10:11
GeneralAntillesHe's been active on -developers recently, so the turnaround may be a bit faster.10:11
AStormbefore I send the question, get reply, the connection will die for another two days10:11
AStormheh, if only I could get a nice prompt with ppp10:12
usicowIn my application manager, I can see Nokia catalogue, Nokia catalogue (3rd party software), Nokia System Software Updates, and maemo Extras. Am I missing another default repository?10:16
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GeneralAntillesNope, that's all.10:17
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AStormjust enable maemo Extras :)10:19
AStormhmm, now ppp connects, but I'm still missing the chat script10:19
AStormI need a tool that will connect to this /dev/rfcomm0 modem and give me a prompt10:19
AStormso I can try some commands10:20
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: ping?10:48
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, pong.10:48
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ed is going to add warnings when somebody uses a wrong section on a package.10:49
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: We might want to get a sane list of sections this week, so we can at least start with that ;)10:49
* GeneralAntilles hates figuring out categories.10:50
GeneralAntillesSounds good, anyway.10:50
GeneralAntillesThere's a Planet post coming up for the sections discussion.10:50
GeneralAntillesI sent another blizzard of emails to maintainers (and some round-two emails to maintainers that didn't reply the last time).10:51
GeneralAntillesI've also started bugging people about using Maemo-specific fields10:52
X-Fadeyeah, I saw your blog post ;)10:52
GeneralAntillesHehe10:52
GeneralAntillesOK10:52
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AStormhmm, I'm getting PPP Naks after first addr negotiation10:57
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JaffaMorning, all11:17
AStormhmm, how do I get a log of what is maemo's ppp doing on connect?11:17
AStormdoes that go to syslog, or somewhere else?11:17
AStormalso, I don't have any syslog in diablo repos - is that intentional? :P11:19
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/11:20
GeneralAntillesInteresting11:20
GeneralAntilles~maemo-man is http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/11:20
infobotokay, GeneralAntilles11:20
GeneralAntillesI think this UPS package is going to go all over the State before it makes it here.11:23
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hrwmorning11:27
GAN800Hi, hrw.11:28
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woglindehi11:38
woglindehm so now let me see how upload assistant work11:40
woglinde*g*11:41
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X-Fadewoglinde: Please let me know if you run into problems :)11:43
woglindesure first I use my brain and read the doku11:43
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woglindeah frist request invitation11:45
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* Stskeeps yawns11:59
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woglindeargs12:06
woglindehm cant upload yet12:06
woglindefirst libxmuu1 needs to be in extra devels12:07
woglindeargs why are the garage accounts not map to the bugtracker12:10
X-Fadewoglinde: Invitation is in the mail ;)12:12
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AStormhah, I forgot to select APN12:27
AStormalso, stupid phone accepts only one DUN connection at a time12:27
AStormand for some reason gets a funny remote address12:28
AStormI'll have to steal the one n810 gets12:28
AStormhmm, the funny remote number is irrelevant ;P12:29
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AStormas it doesn't need a default route to work12:29
AStormI mean, no gateway12:29
AStormweird setup they have at Orange... I'd snipe the admin for disabling all forms of compression12:30
AStormof course, that could be a ploy to get more money out of people12:31
AStormor reduce "load" on the servers12:31
woglinde~lart the pgpkey interface on garage12:31
* infobot calls the pgpkey interface on garage on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home12:31
AStorm~lart stupid Orange ppp12:31
* infobot stamps stupid Orange ppp on the forehead with the official Troll marker12:31
X-Fadewoglinde: pgpkey isn't mandatory anymore, so you can do without.12:31
woglindex-fade yes12:32
AStormwow, the phone has a single-connection bluetooth chip12:32
AStormwhat a failure12:32
AStormI know, embedded is embedded, but this is horrible :>12:32
woglindex-fade saw this but I think sginging is a good idea if I can12:32
X-Fadewoglinde: Yep.12:32
woglindexfade hm is it okay if there are linebreaks if  I submit it via the webinterface?12:33
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lardmanmorning all12:33
woglindehi lardman12:34
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X-Fadewoglinde: I think they will get stripped out. But if you can please remove them to be sure..12:35
woglindex-fade hm this a pain with web interface12:36
X-Fadewoglinde: Just copy/paste?12:36
woglindeyes and then it is borken12:37
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woglindehm okay12:39
woglindefound a way12:39
woglindeargs12:44
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woglindewhy the hell the maemo formular does not check about dsa and rsa keys12:44
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woglindeI choosed as usal dsa variant12:44
X-Fadewoglinde: The source code is in svn ;)12:45
X-Fadewoglinde: Shall I send you a new invitation.12:45
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lardmanAnyone know of a site with GTK+ skeleton code, /me needs a crash course12:47
woglindexfade yes please12:47
woglindex-fade it is on the wikipage12:47
woglinde I mean to produce a rsa key12:47
woglindesorry I didnt read it12:47
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melmothlardman: c ? python ?12:48
lardmana, forgot about that, C please12:48
woglindex-fade hm what I have to take care that the packages ends up in extra-devel not extra?12:49
melmothhttp://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/gui_toolkit_guides/gtk+_gnome_application_development/index.html12:49
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melmothchapter II should do the trick12:49
X-Fadewoglinde: Nothing. It always ends up in extras-devel.12:50
woglindeah dput.conf12:50
X-Fadewoglinde: You need to promote a package from extras-devel to extras.12:50
lardmanmelmoth: that focuses on Gnome?12:50
X-Fadewoglinde: There is no way to directly upload to extras.12:50
woglindex-fade okay fine12:50
melmothhttp://zetcode.com/tutorials/gtktutorial/firstprograms/ looks interesting too12:51
woglindex-fade whats the easiest way to get a library which is only available in sdk to extras-devel?12:51
woglindeI really need libxmuu1 for one program12:51
melmothlardman: gnome is build with gtk widgets. So most of the stuff will be relevant12:51
lardmanok, thanks12:51
X-Fadewoglinde: There is a discussion going on about that on -developers.12:51
X-Fadewoglinde: At the moment, you need to upload that lib to extras-devel first.12:52
X-FadeWhich is pretty annoying, but we still need to a solution for that.12:52
lardmanmelmoth: The other thing I was wondering, is what one does when one has multiple views. Presumably you connect the signals for all the objects (buttons, lists, etc.) and only display the ones for the view in question?12:53
woglindex-fade so I just can do it whitout upset someone?12:54
melmothi never did that, but i guess they should share the same model (gstore list somtheing) and change in the model will be signaled to the veiw automatically12:54
lardmanhttp://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/2.14/ch02.html looks quite useful too, especially for one with no experience of what the toolkit offers12:54
GeneralAntilles~ping12:55
infobot~pong12:55
X-Fadewoglinde: Grab the source package from the sdk and upload it. When the discussion comes to a conclusion, I will clean up the repo ;)12:55
melmothlardman: what do you need to build ?12:55
woglindex-fade okay thank you very much12:55
lardmanmelmoth: I'm going to hack a decent gui + db system together for maemo-barcode12:55
lardmans/decent/sort of working ;)12:55
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melmothlardman: if you do not have it already install, install "devhelp".12:57
lardmanexpand on the current upc code saving to allow users to save lists of their existing CDs/DVDs/Books/shopping lists and to lookup against them, etc,12:57
* lardman googles devhelp12:57
melmothit s the gnome/gtk/glib documentation tool12:57
melmothall library are documented there.12:57
lardmanah ok12:58
melmothand consider using something like glade to make your interface12:58
lardmanhmm12:58
lardmanI've never had much luck with glade12:58
lardmanperhaps this time will be better :)12:59
melmoththere is a slight trick when doing it with maemo: you have to reparent conatianer of the main window to a hidlon window.12:59
lardmanGlade allows you to graphically layout?12:59
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melmothyep13:00
lardmanmelmoth: yeah, I've done hello world and that sort of stuff, I just wanted to know more about how to structure larger applications, with multiple "views" (though not in the classical sense of view of a set of data)13:00
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melmothwith glade, you just create all you window once, and hide them when they are not supposed to be shown13:00
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melmothi made a really simple gtk thingy with glade (in python though) https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/frontend/?root=phonehome13:01
melmoththe function call and the logic is the same in C.13:01
* GAN800 sighs at maemo.org13:01
X-FadeGAN800: What is the problem?13:02
lardmanmelmoth: creating multiple windows - doesn't that produce multiple windows on the taskbar?13:02
GAN800I wonder if throwing Quim's completion estimation back will help13:02
GAN800X-Fade it's 'make a cup of tea for every page' slow13:02
X-FadeGAN800: I really don't have that?13:02
melmothit depends on the type of the window, if it s a dialog window, i dont think so.13:02
lardmanyes, that's true13:03
GAN800wiki throws blank pages or errors half the time13:03
lardmanI'd prefer to not have the memory overhead of leaving multiple hidden windows, seems wasteful13:03
GAN800There's problems with installing the SDK13:03
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melmothyou can still create them , and destroy them when not needed. i guess :)13:04
X-FadeGAN800: maemo.org itself is pretty responsive to me. There are some slow pages, but overall it is a lot better than it was.13:04
GAN800It's all a bit shitty and slow and it was supposed to be fixed 'well before' the end of the 100 days.13:04
_marcell_getting rid of squid would help a lot on the wiki & empty page problem13:04
GAN800Trying to load the trademark page the other day was like watching paint dry13:05
GAN800Logging in to rate articles is less enjoyable than pulling your own fingernails out13:05
GAN800Garage svn being unbelievably slow or just timing out13:06
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GAN800All of this add up to making it really hard for me to coax people into using maemo.org stuff13:06
X-FadeGAN800: I really don't have any problems with garage svn. Honest.13:07
X-FadeGAN800: And I have been using it a few times this morning?13:07
GAN800moontiger timed out on it a day or two ago and it was slow as can be last time I did an svn up on liqbase13:08
GAN800Specific anecdotals aside, it just needs to work.13:08
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X-Fadegarage is looking pretty idle at the moment. There should be no slowness.13:10
GAN800That's fine, but I'm speaking generally.13:12
GAN800There have been problems in the past week.13:12
X-FadePlease ping me if you notice something, so I can check it out.13:13
GAN800Fair enough.13:13
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woglindeargs where was the side were I can download flasher13:23
GAN800~flashing13:24
infobotit has been said that flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware13:24
Stskeepstablets-dev.nokia.com?13:24
GAN800d3.php13:24
lcukGAN800, you had problems with svn?  i keep commiting and updating and haven't noticed any problems with that aspect so far.  the website and wiki and downloads are slower  than an unplugged xz 81 however13:24
lcukmornin btw :D13:25
lcukzx ^13:25
GAN800lcuk, when I ran the up just before starting on the site.13:25
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woglindethanks13:26
lcukyeah, i know when you mean, and probably there are occasions when it is slow (qole and stskeeps uploading massive projects ;)). but that part of the site does not use sql databases where the rest does (which is where email suggests the problem lies)13:28
lcukwe rarely hear about svn problems but ALWAYS hear about "the fudging slow servers" and "ive got a blank page"13:28
Stskeepslcuk: i doubt maemo's slowness is cos of me ;)13:28
Stskeeps(we have own infrastructure)13:29
Stskeepswhich, scaringly, is faster13:29
lcukheh Stskeeps you know what i mean :P13:29
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lcukStskeeps, its easy to make a site faster than maemo.org - i doubthowever we could support as many users as  maemo does and would suffer the same fate.   perhaps a project to  distribute the load out to numerous tablets would be cool ;)13:36
Stskeepsmm13:37
Stskeepswhen a 770 goes WSOD, it doesn't die. it connects to the maemo.org cluster and surrenders.13:37
Stskeepsand becomes part of the cluster13:37
Proteouslol13:39
lcukheh13:40
lcukwe could enlist these angelic devices to roundup all the devices from silicon heaven13:40
lcukcalculators would once again be useful13:40
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lardmanhmm, my post to community has killed the banter13:42
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lardmanor perhaps it just pushed the mail server over the edge13:43
glasselectric heating computing units13:46
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lardmanhmm, short lunch15:12
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X-Fadewoglinde: That libxmu upload seemed to work at least ;)15:35
woglindex-fade yes15:36
woglindex-fade nxssh is the next15:36
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woglindehm ookay15:46
lopzhi15:47
woglindehi lopz15:50
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`Maceyawn16:00
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`Macegood morning16:00
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tbaaaaaaquit16:20
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zapyou are not allowed to16:40
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woglindemaybee put all together and milk the appelfanboys16:48
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||cwapplefanboys give milk?16:53
woglindesorry args wrong channel16:54
woglindeyes in this iphone store16:54
woglindegot an idea how to make money16:55
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slonopotamuswho is Carsten Munk?17:38
slonopotamushi, btw17:38
X-Fadeslonopotamus: -> Stskeeps17:38
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slonopotamusStskeeps, you rock17:39
Stskeepsslonopotamus: hi17:41
* qwerty12 , for some reason, always reads "Communitizer" as something having to do with Communism17:41
Stskeepsqwerty12: too much american tv17:41
slonopotamus;)17:41
slonopotamussame problem, qwerty17:41
qwerty12Stskeeps: I study History :)17:41
Stskeepsah17:41
Stskeepsslonopotamus: so what did you like? (keep in mind many of the tricks used to get things booting are due to a lot of hardworking people before me, johnx, and pkg-maemo, etc)17:42
X-Fadeqwerty12: Sorry :)17:42
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qwerty12X-Fade: Hehe, I'm not offended or anything, just always comes into my head for some reason :D17:43
X-Fadeqwerty12: Well at least it makes you think ;)17:43
slonopotamusStskeeps, stlc45xx-cal postinst script ;) it's crazy17:44
qwerty12:)17:44
Stskeepsslonopotamus: yeah, but it's sane.. ish17:44
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: when nokia doesn't allow redistribution, play by their license17:45
Stskeeps:P17:45
Stskeepssince it's a needed part of any open source implementation17:45
X-FadeStskeeps: I'm sure they will sort that part out too. The whole idea about the gpl driver would be to be able to redistribute.17:46
johnxall of the parts that look more clever than hacky are Stskeeps. All the parts left that involve one-liners with no error checking are mine17:46
* qwerty12 would kill for a port of gnome alsa mixer or anything that shows *all* volume controls. I used easy debian and it came with that and I swear the bass boost I got with that was nice17:46
slonopotamushmm17:46
slonopotamusyou don't REdistribute17:47
Stskeepsnop, i help the user to get it in a sane manner17:47
Stskeepsfor what slonopotamus is talking about, http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet/browser/trunk/packages/non-free/stlc45xx-cal/debian/postinst17:47
qwerty12Stskeeps: maybe with dsme source release. as evident by the name, it for sure reads cal to get the region you are in (ETSI/US)17:47
qwerty12btw, how is libaltcal going?17:48
Stskeepsoh, i can read stuff but i'm not confident of the structure17:48
slonopotamusmaybe asking license is not required?17:48
Stskeepsslonopotamus: your "browser" asks you to agree17:48
Stskeepsslonopotamus: and i do this cos well, it is a thing that needs to be agreed to17:48
qwerty12Stskeeps: as long as we don't fuck up partition layout, we could probably boot to initfs and reflash a backup of mtd1 with static mtd-tools :D17:49
Stskeepsqwerty12: i wonder if it's possible to change from a US version to EU wifi17:49
qwerty12Stskeeps: in theory, just change that string. Do you know anyone with a US n800?17:49
Stskeepsqwerty12: i have one17:49
qwerty12ok, wait a sec plz17:49
Stskeepsslonopotamus: and to avoid the "hack" being invalidated constantly by nokia if we play by their rules17:50
slonopotamusStskeeps, hmm...17:50
Stskeeps-if17:50
qwerty12Stskeeps: When you run "osso-product-info", what does it say for OSSO_PRODUCT_WLAN_CHANNEL?17:50
Stskeepsqwerty12: FCC/US17:51
johnxStskeeps, change to EU wifi? as in turn on all 13 channels?17:51
Stskeepsyeah, for instance17:51
macoutehow many do they have in us?17:51
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, but CAL is a touchy subject for them..17:51
Stskeepswhich is where calibration data is17:52
Stskeepsqwerty12: i've yet to find the MAC in CAL though17:52
qwerty12Stskeeps: Yep, ETSI/EU here. Looking at stlc45xx-cal in more depth will tell us if that is right string to change17:52
qwerty12Stskeeps: hmm17:52
slonopotamusStskeeps, i don't think any law will be broken if you don't ask.17:52
qwerty12Stskeeps: want a copy of my mtd1?17:52
Stskeepsqwerty12: eh, sure17:53
qwerty12Stskeeps: k, dcc or email? do whatever with them (2 dumps (one with rd mode on, one with rd-mode off)), just don't share them! :P17:54
lopzThis should not associate with my AP? it does not, but neither shows any error or anything, any ideas?17:54
lopziwconfig wlan0 essid esi mode managed key off17:54
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Stskeepsqwerty12: dcc is fine17:54
lopzI associate myself with how my AP?17:55
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Stskeepslopz: cx3110x doesn't always support all wireless tools extensions17:55
lopzhello Stskeeps ... how is cx3110x ? drivers wireless ?17:56
qwerty12grr, my router's firewall isn't probably forwarded properly. got an email I can send them to (pm me)?17:56
* slonopotamus wonders if any distro provides packages via p2p network17:56
slonopotamusinstead of mirror system17:56
Stskeepslopz: yes17:57
lopzStskeeps, and how I would associate my AP? are using the administrator of connections ... do it for console for the error, that does not want to associate: (17:57
lopzsorry, my english is bad :\17:57
Stskeepslopz: it's not so simple.. if nokias stuff doesn't work it is usually a bigger problem17:58
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lopzStskeeps, when I do so with "select connection .." said looking ... then comes the name of my AP, essid, is open, I click 2, said connecting ... and the final "error of network connection, retry?"17:59
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lopzStskeeps, I do not know if this is a problem in my notebook, or my router :\18:00
lopziwlist a scan wlan0 me correctly list my wifi network18:01
slonopotamusso you've retried?18:03
slonopotamus;)18:03
slonopotamusasked your network administrator?18:03
slonopotamus;)18:03
slonopotamusi love such error messages18:03
lopz18:04
lopz1 .- I tried again and the same error18:04
lopz2 .- I am a network administrator xDD18:04
lopz3 .- I do not love the mistakes18:04
lopzslonopotamus, :p18:04
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slonopotamusStskeeps, why udev-nokernelcheck?18:10
disco_stuhi there18:10
Stskeepsslonopotamus: 770 has old kernel so udev complains18:10
Stskeepsslonopotamus: but it works anyway on 770 for all i can see18:10
lopzany ideas my problem ? :s18:12
slonopotamuswalks around and moans 'mister user, buy me newer device'? :)18:12
Stskeepsslonopotamus: disables a check in udev init scripts that will cause udev to start ;)18:12
qwerty12slonopotamus: while you can laugh at people with 770's ; us with n8x0 probably wont be better off soon :P18:13
slonopotamusi know, man18:13
slonopotamusand that's sad18:13
Stskeepswhat qwerty12 said18:13
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: how's the porting going?18:16
slonopotamusthe problem is that next device will likelt cost like asus eee :) and that will be a hard choice18:17
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Stskeepsdon't run18:17
Stskeeps:P18:17
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X-Fadehttps://maemo.org/news/jobs/view/architect-_lead_developer-multimedia_applications-nokia.html18:19
X-FadeOr without https of course ;)18:19
disco_stuwich is the new dev ?18:21
timelesshi x-fade18:22
timelesshttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=230086#post23008618:22
timelesscan you make a note that it might be https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=359118:23
* timeless is still on vacation and still doesn't plan to go near itt :)18:23
X-Fadetimeless: Why is that bug related to me? :)18:23
X-FadeAnother job: http://maemo.org/news/jobs/view/senior-lead_developer-imaging-_sharing-nokia.html18:24
timelessyou're alive and friendly and hopefully not yet refusing to visit itt :)18:28
timelessalive was the only real key point :)18:28
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* timeless returns to W3:TPAC and vacation18:29
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slonopotamusset_dim_and_blank.py line 9 typo. should be 'Dim must be <= blank'18:32
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qwerty12Looks ok to me18:33
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qwerty12But then I'm reading it from an English viewpoint, not what it actually means as part of the python code :/18:34
slonopotamuscompare comparison and error message18:35
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slonopotamusdim = 10, blank = 5. and we get error 'Dim must be >= blank'18:36
qwerty12Ah, ok, I see thanks, my bad18:37
slonopotamusit _is_ > blank18:37
Stskeepsslonopotamus: bad error messages18:37
Stskeepsit must dim before it blanks18:37
* johnx likes the idea of blanking first18:37
slonopotamusme too18:37
slonopotamusi don't want dim at all18:38
Stskeepsmmk18:38
slonopotamusahha18:38
johnxon -> blank for 5 -> then dim for 1018:38
Stskeepsslonopotamus: what was the optimized flags for binaries again?18:40
qwerty12Stskeeps: I'm using -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mcpu=arm1136j-s -mtune=arm1136j-s18:41
qwerty12I'd like to see variations though! :)18:41
Stskeepsand that's for N800 or n770?18:42
Stskeepsah18:42
Stskeepsn80018:42
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Khertan_n810rah modest wear very well his name18:45
Khertan_n810Hi !18:45
t_s_ohmm, have anyone considered getting the latest dillo browser going on the tablets?18:46
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disco_stui would like a port of midori to the NITs18:47
Stskeepsdillo was slower than midori on deblet, really18:47
johnxdisco_stu, you might be interested in "Tear"18:47
t_s_ohmm, ok18:47
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qwerty12Does anyone know a program (console or otherwise) that can show the DMA volume meter? GNOME ALSA Mixer from chrooting can do it but I'm looking for a way to do it w/out chrooting. I like the DMA volume bar because it ups the bass18:47
johnxif you want midori any faster, just turn off scripts18:47
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Khertan_n810is there a way to force modest to update18:48
Khertan_n810sync18:48
Khertan_n810or autodestroy ?18:48
Stskeepsbeating it with barbwire, probably18:49
disco_stujohnx: wtf is tear ?18:49
Khertan_n810command not found18:49
macouteis there a way to force modest to work? :)18:49
Khertan_n810it works very well (slow) since the last ssu18:49
RST38hTHE END OF THE WORLD IS COMING!18:49
johnxdisco_stu, first google result for "tear browser" ->  http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2429318:50
RST38hMoo, all.18:50
johnxm00f RST38h18:50
disco_stujohnx: foobar18:50
johnx:)18:50
disco_stui'll give it a try18:51
Khertan_n810where does modest store his prefs ?18:51
RST38hgconf18:51
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Khertan_n810doesn t seems to be /home/user/.modest18:51
Stskeepsslonopotamus: how's the porting coming btw?18:51
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djcbKhertan_n810: gconf18:51
disco_stujohnx: i had downloaded it already18:51
Khertan_n810arg18:51
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Khertan_n810i don t like gconf18:51
disco_studidnt work18:51
RST38hHeh General started blogging18:52
RST38hKhertan: then suffer! ho! ho!ho!18:52
Khertan_n810why made a such copy of the windows registry db18:52
Khertan_n810stupid idea18:52
johnxit's organized better at least18:52
StskeepsKhertan_n810: because linux is getting closer and closer to being like windows ;)18:53
Stskeeps(dll hell = package hell)18:53
melmothit makes backuping option easy, makes reading conf easy, make having callback when configuration option happen easy18:53
qwerty12dllhell isn't much of a problem as package hell is18:53
qwerty12*dll hell18:53
Khertan_n810easy ? it s a joke ?18:53
RST38hKhertan: Becoming Windows is the ultimate goal of both Gnome and KDE18:53
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RST38hKhertan: So they have to have all bells and whistles18:54
johnxStskeeps, the key difference being packages have a central database and dependency info18:54
disco_stuthe worst thing is that you cant rm .app/ and wipe an app settings18:54
Khertan_n810pffff18:54
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RST38hmelmoth: You can simply back up all the dot-files from ~18:54
johnxnah, gnome wants to be a Mac these days :)18:54
seelei'm trying to install kde on my n810.  i linked hilden-desktop to plasma to use the kde desktop, but now the device crashes and reboots.  any ideas?18:54
johnxthere's a gconf command to unset variables in a tree18:54
RST38hjohnx: at this rate, it will become roadkill18:54
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Khertan_n810delete a new account and delete the old one doesn t help18:54
qwerty12Someone should push Ed Bartosh to upload hildonised gconf-editor from chinook extras into diablo extras18:54
Khertan_n810no sync18:54
Stskeepsjohnx: *recompiling glibc optimized* :P18:55
RST38hjohnx: a lot more stuff is happening in kde18:55
RST38hqwerty: [pleadingly] No luck with DC++? =)18:55
johnxRST38h, yeah, if KDE is successful then ... oh wait, people will still be working on gnome18:55
X-Fadeqwerty12: Isn't the source package available?18:55
Khertan_n810i prefer the way macos manage prefs ... a folder with prefs files18:55
johnxRST38h, open source isn't a zero sum game18:55
qwerty12X-Fade: It is, yes18:55
RST38hjohnx: zee power of open source? :)18:55
X-Fadeqwerty12: Lazy bastard ;)18:55
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RST38hjohnx: "somebody will still work on it even when nobody cares"? =)18:56
johnxRST38h, the power of open source is to do the same thing differently, obviously :)18:56
qwerty12RST38h: I can't do anything with it, you know I can't program for shit :P. Though you may be able to edit config file directly.18:56
qwerty12X-Fade: Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment!18:56
qwerty12:P18:56
RST38hqwerty: I can help diagnosing the problem18:56
RST38hjohnx: no, that is not the real power ;018:56
X-Fadeqwerty12: I'd rather have Ed spend his time on adding features to the autobuilder.18:57
johnxI wonder if it would be hard to make a fuse client to access gconf ...18:57
qwerty12RST38h: It compiles straight out, surely you don't need me to do what you say?18:57
RST38hjohnx: The real power is to take somebody's project, add a few key bindings, and claim it to be yours =)18:57
X-Fadeqwerty12: As he does that in his spare time.18:57
RST38hqwerty: I am lazy. But I will try.18:57
johnxRST38h, you mean not having to reinvent the wheel just to make a simple change?18:57
RST38hjohnx: Or even sell it18:57
RST38hjohnx: I mean fame! I mean power! I mean money! =)18:58
qwerty12X-Fade: Ok, I can upload it to diablo extras-devel but should I change changelog/maintainer or can I (please let it be so), upload source package straight to diablo builder?18:58
RST38hjohnx: May I remind that RedHat chairman's last name is Szulik, btw? ;)18:58
* Khertan_n810 will give a try to claw-mail18:58
johnxRST38h, well he seems to like gnome at least :)18:59
Khertan_n810is there any other email client i haven t see ?19:00
X-Fadeqwerty12: I guess you can just upload it to the diablo queue.19:00
qwerty12Cool, thanks.19:00
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RST38hjohnx: yea, but his last name mean "crook" in Russian19:00
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Khertan_n810someone have already try carman ?19:00
qwerty12RST38h: At least it's not suka :p19:01
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lardman|gonecu19:01
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johnxRST38h, but what's in a name?19:01
RST38hqwerty: that is just "bitch" - not descriptive enough19:01
Khertan_n810does it work with a usb <-> odb-2 or does it require a odb2 <-> bluetooth ?19:01
johnxha! there is a fuse client for gconf19:02
RST38hjohnx: Nothing, except that it is probably the second best VIP name since Amiga's VP of development (Fleecy Moss)19:03
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qwerty12johnx: go into /var/lib/gconf and use an text editor :p. not exactly user friendly though...19:03
disco_stujohnx: i need 20mb for webkit !19:04
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disco_stuwont try tear19:04
johnxdisco_stu, microb is taking up more space19:04
disco_stuit is stable..19:04
disco_stu:S19:04
disco_stuhaha19:04
disco_stusee you later19:05
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RST38hqwerty: Can you screw gconf up by editing it like this?19:06
qwerty12RST38h: No idea. I've backed it up like that though.19:07
Khertan_n810hum does claw mail work with gmail ?19:10
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Khertan_n810pffff19:16
Khertan_n810is there only modest and clawmail for the tablet ?19:16
johnxand some command line mail clients19:17
Khertan_n810sweet19:17
RST38hpine! pine!19:17
qwerty12derf: Thanks, your http://pastebin.ca/447594 from about a year ago is helping me now even.19:17
johnxalpine and mutt, IIRC19:17
RST38hworks beautifully, which is surprising19:17
johnxmaybe I lied about mutt19:18
RST38hmutt works, according to some19:19
* RST38h remembers somebody suggesting mutt here19:19
qwerty12http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23544&highlight=mutt ?19:19
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johnxah, not in a repo19:19
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RST38hanother app that has to be in extras19:37
seeleis there a crash log if hildon-desktop crashes?19:38
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melmothnot that i know of.19:39
melmothseele: can you reproduce it at will ?19:39
qwerty12RST38h: could be done, he gives instructions on how he does it :D19:39
qwerty12seele: you can create folder called core-dumps on memory card and learn how to read those dumps when something crashes...19:39
seelemelmoth: yeah.. by linking the kde plasma desktop to /usr/bin/hildon-desktop, heh19:40
melmothseele: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/Maemo_debugging_guide.html19:40
melmothsee how to catch a cordedump19:40
seelemelmoth: thanks19:40
melmothinstall debugging symbol. catch a back trace. nag developper :)19:40
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slonopotamus:(19:42
slonopotamusextremely long timeout19:42
Khertan_n810:)19:43
Khertan_n810same here19:43
melmothseele: "linking the kde plasma desktop to /usr/bin/hildon-desktop" . i m wondering if this is a "supported" thing19:44
melmothmay be, there is another way to start the kde desktop (i do not know, never try).19:44
seelemelmoth: yeah, you can start it by just running plasma, but then you have the kde desktop running overtop of hildon19:45
seeleand you still have the hildon navigation19:45
RST38hslono: yes, but why the hell are you logged into the name server? =)19:45
RST38hmelmoth: this method sounds like a good way toward having to reflash19:46
seelemelmoth: starting up plasma instead of hildon will sortof work, but it crashes near the end of loading.  i dunno if it is kde's fault or some process looking to see if hildon is running properly19:46
derfqwerty12: Hah, I'd totally forgotten about that.19:46
qwerty12Hehe, I'm using it now, this program actually uses GtkUIManager :)19:47
slonopotamusinto name server?19:50
RST38h*** slonopotamus is n=slonopot@ns1.possvyaz.ru19:51
RST38hns1 is the domain name server19:51
RST38hprimary one, too, according to whois =)19:51
Khertan_n810while(1==2):19:52
Khertan_n810  killall modest19:52
RST38hjust killall modest, that will be sufficient step toward world piece19:53
RST38hs/piece/peace/19:53
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infobotRST38h meant: just killall modest, that will be sufficient step toward world peace19:53
slonopotamus...19:53
slonopotamusdoes this thing work?19:53
slonopotamuslow wifi coverage in the kitchen :( need to rebase AP19:53
slonopotamus...19:53
Khertan_n810hum modest mailing list archive has nothing since august19:54
Khertan_n810The Modest-devel Archives19:54
Khertan_n810no archives19:54
Khertan_n810hum i understand now19:55
slonopotamusuff19:55
slonopotamusi'm online19:55
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RST38hstill online, it seems19:55
slonopotamusvery strange19:55
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slonopotamusi've disconnected from ap several times19:56
RST38hKhertan: what took you this long? BTW, as Modest is now part of Diablo, you can file bugs via bugzilla and they will be handled like any base system bugs19:56
RST38hmay be interference19:56
Khertan_n810yep this is the problem19:56
Khertan_n810i look for help making it running19:56
slonopotamusRST38h, i'm behind my provider's nat19:57
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RST38hoh, so they use dns server as the external gate... queer19:58
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slonopotamus;)19:58
slonopotamusit's a small local provider19:59
slonopotamus<5000 users i guess19:59
AStormslonopotamus: there are a few possibilities19:59
AStormone is that they ran out of DHCP space19:59
AStormand someone has to get the boot20:00
AStormanother is faily AP :>20:00
slonopotamusdon't break my provider, ok? i'll be sad20:00
AStormget another one and set as repeater :)20:00
AStormmight work, might not, depending on ISP20:00
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slonopotamushmm... good idea about repeater20:00
RST38hI would say it is either client/ap hardware mismatch, funky ap, or (most likely) plain old Russian concrete20:01
slonopotamushey20:01
slonopotamusit's plain _new_ russian concrete20:01
AStormhardware mismatch? it's a lie20:02
RST38heven worse - it is thicker than the old panels and has got lots of iron inside20:02
slonopotamus2 years only20:02
AStormall 802.11 compliant hardware should work20:02
RST38hAStorm: Ideally, yes. But things happen.20:02
RST38hTry RaLink, especially with slightly wrong drivers ;)20:02
* RST38h will be back shortly20:02
AStormthat doesn't count :) it's a driver bug20:02
slonopotamusmaybe it's nokia powersave....20:03
slonopotamusbecause have no troubles with other devices20:03
slonopotamusanyway20:03
slonopotamusi'm online20:04
AStormpossible, but then it's a buggy AP20:04
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AStormyou could try setting lower powersaving20:04
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slonopotamusit's precious dlink g624t20:05
slonopotamushmm20:05
slonopotamuswrong20:05
slonopotamus52420:05
slonopotamusdi52420:06
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qwerty12Heh, I have a di524. I have the B1 though so no linux for me :(20:06
slonopotamusb1 through - ?20:07
slonopotamusg624t was in another flat. there was adsl.20:08
X-Fadeqwerty12: Hero of the day ;)20:08
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slonopotamusso20:09
qwerty12X-Fade: Lol, how? :)20:09
qwerty12slonopotamus: B1 as in hardware revision20:09
slonopotamussomeone wanted to ask me something20:09
X-Fadeqwerty12: Complain -> act -> fix ;)20:09
slonopotamusqwerty12, oh my20:10
qwerty12X-Fade: The battery stuff?20:10
X-FadeWe need more do-ers than complain-ers. And you are a do-er, so hero of the day ;)20:10
qwerty12Oh, gconf-editor20:10
slonopotamusqwerty12, buyed several di524. no problems with hardware20:10
slonopotamusqwerty12, buyed several di524. no problems with hardware20:11
slonopotamuswoops20:11
qwerty12slonopotamus: Hehe, the di524 itself is fine, just it uses the B1 hardware revision whereas the D hardware revision uses linux which I would have liked :(20:11
slonopotamusthe only problem - too weak cpu for 54 mbps encrypted wifi20:12
slonopotamushuh20:12
slonopotamusmine have linux20:12
qwerty12slonopotamus: Mine doesn't :(20:12
slonopotamus:P20:12
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slonopotamusbuy a new one. it's very cheap20:13
qwerty12Probably will do, I have fun compiling stuff for my DG834GT (I got SNMP to work on it for example) :)20:13
slonopotamuswoops20:13
slonopotamusdlink says it's old20:14
qwerty12Yeah, but it's a nice router though, pretty stable for me20:14
slonopotamusthey suggest DIR-300/DIR-320 instead20:14
slonopotamus$18 for di524 here. cool.20:16
GeneralAntillesFew more positive responses from maintainers.20:17
X-FadeMy repository reduction quest really needs some kick again. A lot of promises, but nobody has time to actually do it ;)20:18
X-FadeBut that is to be expected when people develop in their spare time.20:19
Khertan_n810héhé20:19
Khertan_n810ask to nokia to hire it :)20:19
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johnxahaha...cash paid for closed repos?20:20
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, I was thinking about something a little more threatening. :P20:21
Khertan_n810maybe the other way pay for app in extras :)20:21
johnxGeneralAntilles, I never said the repo owner was the only one who could collect money for a closed repo :D20:21
GeneralAntillesPay us to put your applications in Extras and not get yer legs broke. :P20:22
Khertan_n810hihi20:22
Khertan_n810i like this idea :)20:22
slonopotamus:)20:22
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Khertan_n810...20:25
Khertan_n810..20:25
Khertan_n810.20:25
slonopotamusahha20:25
qwerty1220:25
slonopotamusabout build flags20:25
slonopotamuschost = armv6j-none-linux-gnueabi20:26
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slonopotamusthis implies -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp20:27
Khertan_n810i m surprised that there is any python gtk good imap client20:27
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at the religion discussion on itT.20:28
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suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: do you believe in vim or in emacs?20:31
slonopotamus:D20:31
Khertan_n810NANO !20:31
GeneralAntillesvim, but only because I'm lazy and haven't invested the time to play with emacs. :P20:31
Khertan_n810:)20:31
slonopotamusin sed we trust20:31
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qwerty12Khertan_n810: Sure, find me a build that doesn't segfault on N800 :p20:32
Khertan_n810ah ... hum ...20:32
johnxslonopotamus, sed? must be a fundamentalist...20:32
GeneralAntilles^W20:32
Khertan_n810so : PYGTKEDITOR !20:32
Khertan_n810:)20:32
GeneralAntillesCRASH20:32
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lcukdid someone say pygtkeditor?20:33
Khertan_n810GeneralAntilles: False ... ctl-w + some letter + enter crash :)20:34
Khertan_n810lcuk: yep me :)20:34
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GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, I haven't used it in a while. :D20:34
lcuk\o/ ello there khertan20:34
Khertan_n810héhé20:34
Khertan_n810hi lcuk20:34
slonopotamus...20:34
suihkulokkijohnx: fundamentalist would go for ED! this newfangled stream version makes things too easy for the unwashed mashes..20:34
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bef0rdhttp://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-243127.html >_>20:34
Khertan_n810wie geht's ?20:34
lcukhave u updated it? or are you?20:34
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, have you started pushing your dev tools for Fremantle stars?20:34
lcuksay yes, say yes, say yes, say yes, say yes, say yes,20:35
Khertan_n810GeneralAntilles : nope20:35
Khertan_n810lcuk : it s planned20:35
lcuk\o/ w000t20:35
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, do it!20:35
johnxbef0rd, I got that from like 5 sources. Awesome article :)20:35
Khertan_n810but at this time i m finishing mCalendar20:35
slonopotamusi use pygtkeditor on tablet20:35
lcukbut you need a workhorse editor to do it well ;)20:35
GeneralAntillesI'd so love to see Nokia put some effort behind getting a development environment together on the tablets.20:35
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Khertan_n810and trying to make modest work20:36
Khertan_n810or at least an other imap client20:36
Khertan_n810GeneralAntilles : what is the 'Fremantle Stars' ?20:36
lcukGeneralAntilles, its actually hard - and only a few lost souls really do stuff like this (though its getting easier and the extra power will help)20:36
Khertan_n810i ven t got time to read news last days20:36
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, see qgil's threads on -community, -developers and -users.20:36
Khertan_n810s/days/weeks20:36
GeneralAntillesBasically, Nokia wants a list of projects that they should help make really awesome for Fremantle.20:37
Khertan_n810hum ... i ll look archive so20:37
Khertan_n810mCalendar could be a candidate20:37
Khertan_n810PyGtkEditor too ... if i update it20:37
Khertan_n810how do they plan to help ?20:38
Khertan_n810and of course py2deb20:38
GeneralAntillesfanoush queried qgil about that one on -developers20:38
* lcuk hears very nice things about mcalendar very often20:38
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Khertan_n810providing nokia developpers to help ?20:38
Khertan_n810ah ok20:38
Khertan_n810i ll read archives tomorrow20:38
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slonopotamusKhertan has small timeout20:39
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lcukKhertan_n810, tunnel?20:40
Khertan_n810sorry 3g data connection coverage drop20:40
Khertan_n810lcuk: nope20:41
Khertan_n810but far from a city20:41
lcukahhh just france20:41
lcuk:P20:41
Khertan_n810switch to gprs20:41
Khertan_n810yep that just france20:41
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lcuki got liqbase buffer up quite a bit and into extras now \o/20:41
lcukbuffed ^20:41
Khertan_n810yep i see that20:42
Khertan_n810playing a bit with the x.x.320:42
Khertan_n810or 1320:42
Khertan_n810don t remember20:42
Khertan_n810freezing my n81020:42
Khertan_n810:)20:42
lcukheh, 0.1.5 has full proper camera with png support :)20:42
lcuk:O20:42
Khertan_n810great20:43
* lcuk has frozen a few tablets now :S20:43
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johnxyup qwerty12_N800. it was the cable :/20:43
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qwerty12_N800johnx, :/20:45
johnxgot it flashed though20:45
qwerty12_N800cool20:45
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Khertan_n810bye ... taking my car20:46
lcukcya khertan20:46
slonopotamus[:-)20:46
Khertan_n810cya20:46
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slonopotamuswill gmail be fast in microb one day?20:50
slonopotamus'some day' maybe20:50
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johnxmaybe if they integrate tracemonkey from firefox?20:50
johnxor if you select basic html view20:51
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, we're still on a really old version of FF320:51
GeneralAntillesThere are some huge js improvements that are waiting upstream.20:52
johnxpeople suddenly got really serious about javascript performance :)20:52
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GeneralAntillesHehe20:52
GeneralAntillesGotta love that competition.20:52
slonopotamusmaybe because of acid3?20:53
bef0rdacid tests are more about CSS20:53
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johnxI never would have thought FF's javascript would get faster than webkits...20:53
slonopotamusnot third20:53
slonopotamusit's damn fast20:54
bef0rdslonopotamus, oh, that's right, acid3 requires JS20:54
GeneralAntillesjohnx, another datapoint about trains. It's just under $400 for 4 people to go from Orlando to DC.20:54
johnxGeneralAntilles, how long does that take?20:55
GeneralAntilles19 hours and change20:55
GeneralAntillesThere's a faster train that does it in 17 for about $60020:55
johnxjebus!20:55
slonopotamushttp://dromaeo.com/?id=18376,18377,18398,18378,4177220:55
johnxGeneralAntilles, might as well just walk O_o20:55
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GeneralAntillesEh, still faster than driving.20:56
GeneralAntillesSure, the flight is only 2.5 hours. ;)20:56
GeneralAntillesBut add in another 2 hours for security theater.20:56
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slonopotamusn800 doesn't charge if high cpu load o_O it uses battery even on charger?20:57
GeneralAntillesYes20:57
slonopotamusomg20:57
GeneralAntillesBut only under high load20:57
GeneralAntillesOr if you've got a really crappy charger.20:57
slonopotamusdo laptops behave same way?20:58
slonopotamusi've got standard nokia charger20:58
slonopotamusand high cpu load20:58
slonopotamusgmail ;)20:58
johnxslonopotamus, laptops have a fundamentally different charging architecture20:58
slonopotamusgood.20:59
slonopotamuswhy couldn't tablet have same?20:59
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slonopotamusthat's ugly - to charge for half an hour and still have 'battery low'21:00
johnxmoney? complexity? size?21:00
johnxtake your pick21:00
johnxhow much ( size | money | complexity aka cost ) is it worth to you?21:01
* slonopotamus picks money21:01
johnxGeneralAntilles, so that's about 1350km, right?21:02
slonopotamussize - twice thick is ok. i still don't understand why so small battery21:02
slonopotamusn800 has a lot of place for bigger battery21:02
GeneralAntillesjohnx, just under21:03
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, cheaper to use a battery that another devices is already using, and smaller batteries are cheaper.21:03
slonopotamuswhat device has same battery?21:04
slonopotamusphones? nope21:04
GeneralAntillesYes.21:04
slonopotamusno21:04
GeneralAntillesYes.21:04
slonopotamusmy 3110 has smaller one21:04
slonopotamusand 3500 too21:04
johnxslonopotamus, that's not the only phone nokia makes ...21:05
qwerty12_N810 battery is used in some newer phones.21:05
johnxGeneralAntilles, how about 1622km in 8 hours by train? costs you ~$300 per person though...21:05
slonopotamusqwerty, GA said 'already using'21:05
johnxslonopotamus, plenty of nokia devices are using the 5l and 4l21:05
GeneralAntillesThe bullet trains are NY/Boston/Chicago area.21:06
slonopotamusjjohnx, ok. i trust you.21:06
johnxslonopotamus, you don't have to. just trust google21:06
GeneralAntillesBut not me?21:06
slonopotamus:D21:06
slonopotamusga, you too21:06
slonopotamusbut they could make it bigger21:07
dsampleSorry for the possibly noob question, but is there a log somewhere that I can see more details about errors with the built-in SIP client?21:07
johnxGeneralAntilles, not much choice for long haul except airplane, bullet train or night bus (shudder)21:07
slonopotamus:P21:07
t_s_ohmm, i can see the available space on the root filesystem steadily decreasing with the device just sitting there, but then jumps back up if i give it a reboot...21:07
qwerty12_slonopotamus, you can't expect all nokia devices to be using the same. my old ngage used the charger with the "fat" connector, where as my old ex-n80 used the newer thin  connector21:07
GeneralAntillesWell, Nokia fails: http://www.nokiausa.com/A443161121:07
johnxslonopotamus, you can just buy a bigger one from mugen, but it won't fit21:07
slonopotamusoh21:08
qwerty12_t_s_o, /var/tmp is cleaned out on reboot21:08
GeneralAntillesBigger batteries == more cost.21:08
slonopotamussmall connector sucks21:08
qwerty12_t_s_o, by the aptly named tmp-reaper21:08
johnxslonopotamus, well it will fit the battery socket, but not the case21:08
GeneralAntillesEspecially if you have to create an entirely new battery.21:08
slonopotamusi broke one when charging n800 fell from table21:08
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slonopotamushmm...21:09
slonopotamusjohnx, really?21:09
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qwerty12_slonopotamus, i'm the charger destroying master :p21:09
slonopotamusjohnx, just need another back panekl?21:09
johnxslonopotamus, yeah. it's actually made for a nokia phone, but since they use the same battery you're in luck21:09
slonopotamusjohnx, they could make an option21:10
slonopotamushmm...21:10
slonopotamusi want bigger charger21:10
slonopotamuserr21:10
slonopotamusbattery21:10
slonopotamuswill build panel factory21:10
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slonopotamusand will sell panels for $5021:11
slonopotamuswill become rich21:11
slonopotamusand buy nokia21:11
johnxgoodluckwiththat21:11
slonopotamusand make n800 with big battery21:11
slonopotamusgood plan, eh?21:11
RST38hand carry it in a separate sack?21:11
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johnxslonopotamus, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23178621:12
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woglindere21:12
slonopotamusnot too big. just to be able to handle 100% cpu load for 12 hours21:12
slonopotamusjohnx, someone already implemented my plan? (didn't open link yet)21:13
johnxit's info on the battery21:14
johnxand a picture of the battery in the n80021:14
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slonopotamus3.6Ah21:16
slonopotamusi want that thing21:16
johnxso buy it :P21:17
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slonopotamus'Turns out I was running with the performance governor, so that was 400 MHz for 12 hours.'21:17
slonopotamuswooow21:17
slonopotamusthat's what i just said21:18
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jagernothello i have a sound synth that i want to port to maemo. (http;//code.google.com/p/din) ; i want to open a pcm audio output and send audio data. how do i do that on maemo? gstreamer?21:21
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woglindejagernot hm21:23
woglindebehind its a dsp21:23
t_s_ofunny, i save space by using the recent pidgin update vs rtcom with msn support...21:23
woglindeand I do not know if gestream abstract this to the user21:23
woglindejagernot hm you could aiit for lardman he knows better than me21:24
johnxjagernot, there's some info here: http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node9.html21:24
woglindewait21:24
RST38hjagernot: no pcm audio output21:24
solmumahawo ist pupnik? :(21:24
johnxI don't know if you've seen it or not21:24
RST38hjagernot: you will have to go through esd and suffer in the process, sorry21:24
johnxgstreamer or esd or alsa are possible21:25
RST38halsa is not, apparently21:25
johnxRST38h, yes. it is21:25
RST38hthere is some way to access it but it is convoluted21:25
johnxRST38h, I've been using it quite extensively...21:25
woglinde*g*21:25
RST38hgstreamer is way too heavy, so esd is the most realistic21:25
woglindepopcorn21:25
johnxRST38h, what do you think is behind esd?21:25
melmothwoglinde: try gst-inspect and find a pad that match the data format you are interested in21:25
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woglindemelmoth hm???21:26
woglindemelmoth you mean jagernot21:26
RST38hjohnx: Lo! The Enlightened Holder of Sacred Knowledge21:26
johnxRST38h, It's in TFM...21:26
RST38hjohnx: no idea, but it may be alsa of course. or the plain dsp21:26
melmothgstreamer is a system of "pipe". as long as you have one element that handle the data type you are interested in, you ll be able to plug it to other element, and , transform it, or play it21:26
johnxRST38h, want to make a third guess?21:27
sp3000hrm, why is osso-xterm being weird about ttyping in an ä and backspacing over it21:27
RST38hjohnx: Ok, The Conqueror of The Sacred Fucking Manual21:27
RST38hjohnx: I would like to guess it as /dev/dsp but I know that it is not going to be so ;(21:27
* sp3000 seems to recall it used to not be weird about it21:27
sp3000but icbw21:27
johnxRST38h, actually I think you might be right :)21:27
RST38hjohnx: No.21:28
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johnxhmm?21:28
RST38hjohnx: This has been discussed and researched before21:28
woglindehehe you are confusing jagernot21:28
RST38hjohnx: No /dev/dsp there. No dev/pcm. No dev/audio.21:28
sp3000(someone seems to be disagreeing about whether a character has to be a single byte and so forth)21:28
RST38hThere ARE some device nodes that LOOK like audio devices but I do not think they are the same thing21:28
johnxRST38h, /dev/dsp is the actual DSP. not an OSS sound interface21:29
johnxanyways, to avoid hijacking this further...21:29
RST38hyea21:29
RST38hand it is called differently too :)21:29
johnxRST38h, yes, definitely. I think esd has a backend that talks directly to it21:30
johnxgstreamer or esd are probably fine choices21:30
johnxalsa seems to be kinda buggy lately21:30
slonopotamuscan xchat be configured to autoconnect on startup?21:31
RST38hyes21:31
RST38hand autojoin too21:31
slonopotamushow?21:31
slonopotamustell me the secret combo :)21:32
slonopotamuspleeease21:32
woglindeuse google21:32
woglindekiddy21:32
woglinde*g*21:32
woglindefirst rule21:32
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RST38hslono: I have to admit I do not remember =(21:32
qwerty12_N800xchat -> network list has all :)21:32
jagernothmm...are there any examples to work with esd/gstreamer on maemo.21:33
woglinde*g* secrect combo press up down a b x x y z21:33
woglindethere you go21:33
slonopotamusahha21:33
RST38hjagernot: what is your email address?21:33
slonopotamusautoconnect found21:33
jagernotjagernot@gmail.com21:33
woglindesorry could not resist21:33
slonopotamusautojoin?21:33
RST38hxchat takes a channels list somewhere21:33
RST38hit will join those channels on connection21:34
johnxjagernot, There seems to be example code here: http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node9.html21:34
slonopotamusok21:34
RST38hjagernot: actually, I will put it onto http21:34
slonopotamustrying21:34
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qwerty12_N800jagernot, for recording, best code you can look at is maemo-recorder21:34
johnxfor really optimized sound output, mplayer is probably the best place to look21:35
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jagernotqwerty: no im looking for playback..but not file playback.21:35
keesjHi21:35
qwerty12_N800ah, ok21:35
slonopotamusnow i know kung-fu21:35
johnxjagernot, I believe mplayer uses esd and the examples I linked you to are for gstreamer21:36
RST38hjager: http://fms.komkon.org/SndUnix.c21:36
RST38hjager: Look at the code denoted with ESD_AUDIO21:36
slonopotamusjoker - the one who jokes?21:37
keesjDuring the maemo summit there was a presentation about power management with some really cool tools and hardware to mesure power consumpsion.21:37
RST38hjohnx: gstreamer stuff is pretty useless as it does not let you play synthesized buffers straightforwardly21:37
keesjWhere could I find more information about all that?21:37
johnxRST38h, point taken :)21:37
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johnxreally, alsa would probably be the lightest if it actually worked :/21:38
RST38hjohnx: See the above code - it will provide really simple API via either /dev/dsp, /dev/audio/ or ESD crap21:38
johnxRST38h, You just need to read esddsp.c and you too will know how to mangle things for direct DSP playback :)21:39
jagernotRST: wow looks promising21:39
RST38hjohnx: don't really want to - I prefer the KISS principle21:39
johnxMe too. Just pointing it out21:40
jagernotRST: why is ESD crap?..21:40
lcukas long as the girls hot i like the KISS principle too, and the FONDLE and perhaps *CENSORED*21:40
RST38hjagernot: No documentation and weird behaviour21:40
woglindelcuk *g*21:40
RST38hjagernot: Seems to buffer as much samples as you give it instead of blocking until they are played back21:40
RST38h[state-of-factly] He meant FSCK.21:41
qwerty12_N800lcuk, showemLIQbase?21:43
lcukshow who?21:43
qwerty12_N800s/em/'er :p21:45
qwerty12_N800the girl ofc21:45
* qwerty12_N800 killed it21:45
* qwerty12_N800 sets +lurking21:45
lcuknahhh, theres much better things to lick21:45
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qwerty12_N800oh, you've watched 2g1c21:47
lcukwhy am i not surprised you have21:48
qwerty12_N800because i'm qwerty12 :)21:49
jagernotif i have to do it with gstreamer instead what should i do...GstAudioSource? GstAudioSink?21:49
jagernotunfortunately no examples that do synthesis...i saw audiotestsrc but if someone has done it before and shed some light..21:50
lcukqwerty12_N800, :D you commented and voted on http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/21:51
lcukyou are right, more people should ;)21:51
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, of course :D21:51
lcuk+1 :D21:52
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melmothjagernot: i do not think (but i may be wrong) gstreamer does synth, you have to feed data from somewhere.21:52
* RST38h will go vote21:52
qwerty12_N800lcuk, I only did it really because my karma goes up :p21:52
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lcukheh21:53
melmothbut if you can generate the sound in a format gstreamer can cope with, then you can pipe it to an audiosink21:53
RST38hqwerty <-- cynical bastard =)21:53
lcukkarma whore21:53
lcuk(like me)21:53
jagernotmelmoth: hmm..a source that reads from a file is technically doing synthesis the moment it has read the file and got the samples to send to the audio sink.21:53
qwerty12_N800why, thank you21:53
RST38hspeaking of karma whoring, why my last application hasn't got counted into karma? =)21:53
GeneralAntillesBroken again.21:54
RST38hohwell...21:54
qwerty12_N800RST38h, that reminds me, i need to vote on your stuff although now doesn't sound like a good time...21:54
RST38hthe maemo.org appears to be semi-dead again =(21:54
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GeneralAntillesApparently X-Fade poked bergie about it. I reopened the bug about a week ago.21:56
GeneralAntillesWe'll see.21:56
qwerty12_N800damn, gnome alsa mixer crashed on me and now i'm left with a tablet that outputs sound from both speakers + headphones21:57
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smokieI failed executing the maemo-scratchbox installer on ubuntu 8.04 (x86_64). Even setarch failed. Is the only solution to install a chroot ?21:57
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dsampleThe SIP client worked fine at work but now I'm home it says "network error" for my Ekiga account, is there any way to expand on that error?21:58
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neostriderhello folks21:59
lcukRST38h, may take a while to update22:00
lcukwhen did you upload/promote22:00
lcukhi neostrider22:00
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neostriderwhats going on?22:00
neostriderI've been quite away from the Maemo community22:01
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neostriderbut the good news is that I have a new game comming out of the oven...22:01
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solmumahasmokie: it should work22:02
solmumahawhat is the error?22:02
smokiesolmumaha, a lot of repositories are printed and at the end  Failed to fetch http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo4-sdk/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404 Not Found22:03
smokiesolmumaha, i guess apt tries to fetch from x86_64 repos, and not from i386 ?22:04
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RST38hlcuk: long ago22:04
solmumahainstall from tarballs (-s)22:04
lcukahhh rite, mines not listed either but its new22:04
smokiesolmumaha, ok, that may be an option. Sure that there are not other pitfalls for x86_64 ? Is it better to use the 4.1 vmware image ?22:06
solmumahait works fine, i use it22:06
neostrideranyone feeling brave to try my new game?22:06
solmumahayou may need to run "/bin/echo 4096 | /usr/bin/tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr" before starting it though22:07
solmumahaneostrider: sure22:07
neostriderwhat device you have right now?22:07
solmumaha770/n80022:08
lcuksolmumaha, mmm you have a 77022:08
neostriderme too22:08
lcukdoes anyone else have a 770 handy thats booted?22:08
lcukor handy22:08
lcukneo is yours to hand though?22:09
neostriderlcuk: I have a 770 running Gregalle...does it worth for your testings?22:09
Myrttiwhut22:09
MyrttiI have 770 next to me22:09
neostrider(Gregalle or Gregale?)22:09
neostriderIm holding it right now22:09
lcukwell i was told recently liqbase wont run on it (but it will install) on os2008he, i was just wondering why not22:09
Myrttioh, right, I still have OS2007HE222:10
lcukdont worry, ill find a way to try in near future - i dont know which libs you would need for earlier oses22:10
qwerty12_N800lcuk, remember os2008he is based on chinook, not diablo. but you dont compile with processor optimisations right?22:11
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lcukyes qwerty (-O3) but nothing specific extra and libs are basic22:11
lcuki dont have cpu specific options if thats what you mean22:11
qwerty12_N800oh -o3 should be standard, nothing specific iirc22:12
qwerty12_N800yep22:12
lcukyeah thought so22:12
lcukthats just loop unrolling and inlining and basic standard opts22:12
neostridersolmumaha... I will upload the game and will let you know when Im ready22:12
lcukneostrider, whats the game do?22:12
neostriderits an 3D adventure22:13
lcukor is that half the fun22:13
lcukoooh22:13
neostriderjust like those from the 80s22:13
neostriderbut in 3D22:13
neostriderthink of "driller"22:13
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lcukyou are in a dark room.22:13
lcukThere is a lamp beside you.22:13
lcuk:22:13
neostriderhauhauhauahu....not quite like this22:13
lcuk:D driller was great22:13
neostrider"you're in a decaying space station22:14
neostriderthere is a lamp beside you"22:14
neostrider>22:14
lcuk16777215 possible screen locations!22:14
neostrider=-P22:14
qwerty12_N800use the lamp on yourself.  game over.22:14
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lcukdriller got 97% in crash22:14
lcuki HAD to have that game22:14
* lcuk can remember getting lost looking for beryl22:15
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lcuk:D it was 20billion view locations!22:16
neostriderthe only bad thing of the Maemo port of my game is the lack of the soundtrack22:16
lcukyou ported driller?22:17
neostriderRavel's bolero is the "thing" to create the tension on the last minutes...22:17
neostriderno no...22:17
neostriderall things original22:17
neostriderbut the graphics have a similar aspect22:17
lcukill have a go at installing it22:17
lcukis it OSS?22:17
neostridersure!22:17
neostriderGPL22:17
neostriderhttp://corporatedrones.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/screenshot-riddler.png22:17
lcuk\o/22:17
lcuknice, what engine do you use22:18
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neostrider(bulding inside scratchbox)22:19
neostriderI created my own engine...22:19
neostriderat first , I used it for Angstron22:19
neostridernow I did a major revamp on it22:19
lcukneostrider, ok then - what backend does your engine render to22:22
lcukyou are running it in vista though, so that causes an incredible drag on coolness :P22:23
qwerty12_N800no aero does that :p22:24
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lcukhiya dneary \o22:24
dnearyhey hey22:25
neostrideruploading...22:25
neostriderlcuk: ubuntu with a vista theme due to a great lack of better theme22:25
neostriderhey dneary22:25
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neostrider(ops...forgot to add optimizations to gcc)22:26
lcukneostrider, isnt that like puttin a ford badge on a ferarri? why on earth would you want to advertize yourself a vista fan?22:26
neostrider(but my 770 didnt exploded...022:26
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neostriderlcuk: I know...I very ashamed of it..I will improve it...Im switching to exclusive fluxbox X11 install!22:26
neostriderwow...I didnt forgot to add optimization...the is just THIS SLOW on the 770 heheh22:27
neostridermaybe I should turn off dynamic lightning by default22:27
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dnearyHi neostrider22:28
neostridercan I post the rapidshare link in here?22:30
RST38hwhy not?22:31
neostriderok22:31
neostriderhttp://rapidshare.com/files/156567784/testmaemo_riddler.zip.html22:31
neostriderhere we go22:31
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neostriderkeep the "storage" directory in your /media/mmc1 and you can run "riddler" from anywhere you want22:32
neostriderthe first "loading" will be strange, as it will display a black screen until finished...the other ones will work finew22:32
neostriderif you press [center] in the D-Pad, it will perform the action display'd at the top-right of the screen22:33
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neostrider(too bad the 770 cant natively play ogg files...)22:34
lcuk810neo could you respam plz22:35
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neostrideryou mean, saying the link again?22:35
lcuk810yeah22:35
neostridersure22:35
neostriderhttp://rapidshare.com/files/156567784/testmaemo_riddler.zip.html22:35
neostridergreat! a n810!22:35
neostriderthe best test scennario I could ask for!22:36
lcukno, it only says that - im ashamed to say its a c64 in disguise22:36
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neostridereven better!22:36
neostriderif my game runs in C64, it means Im such a bad*ss!22:36
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lcukyou know, rapidshit is not the best distribution medium for the tablets22:37
qwerty12_N800or a zip :p :)22:37
lcukoh crap, a zip as well22:38
johnxxarchiver to the rescue!22:38
neostriderplease suggest me better ways to do it22:38
neostriderI will do it promptly22:38
lcukkeep .deb, put it on your blogspace22:38
neostrider(just dont ask me for a debian package...its just...hum..."too soon" for it)22:38
neostriderowww man22:38
lcukheh22:38
lcukits ok i only just packaged mine recently ;)22:39
neostriderI was in a private war with my EeePC yesterday22:39
neostriderit refused to install my .debs22:39
lcukcrap, johnx is xarchiver installed by default?22:40
neostriderif this test suceeds, I will deploy a more polished version in a .deb, I promess ;))22:40
johnxof course not22:40
johnxlcuk, that would make it too easy22:40
fieWhat is Maemo's interface called?22:40
johnxmaemo22:40
neostridermaemo-desktop-af?22:41
lcukslow22:41
lcuk:D22:41
neostriderthe game?22:41
johnxhildon-desktop?22:41
qwerty12_N800neostrider, http://pastebin.com/d6cd66dcb  :/ thanks for the game though :/22:41
fiehildon22:41
fiethat sounds right22:41
fieyeah22:41
johnxlcuk, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/xarchiver/22:42
neostriderqwerty12_N800: have you placed the "storage" directory in /media/mmc1?22:42
fieHuh22:42
fie"It uses the matchbox window manager"22:42
qwerty12_N800neostrider, maemo-af-desktop was replaced  with hildon-desktop in os200822:42
neostriderqwerty12_N800:  Im getting old!22:42
qwerty12_N800neostrider, no, my bad :/22:42
fie"and like ubuntu mobile it uses gtk based hildon as it's gui and app framework"22:42
neostriderUME is not using hildon anymore..right?22:42
johnxit is, AFAIK22:43
neostrider(why dont openmoko uses hildon instead of that..."bizarre" UI?)22:43
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johnxprobably a case of hildon not being a great choice when they started22:45
fieanyone used ubuntu mobile?22:45
neostriderdoes UME really exist?22:45
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neostriderI heard there is progress going on...but never saw it...22:45
neostriderI was eager to run it on my EeePC =-)22:45
fiehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ubuntumobile.jpg22:46
fieneostrider, eee isn't touchscreen is it?22:46
neostridernot really =-/22:46
neostriderat least, not my model22:46
neostriderI own the LOWEST possible model in the ladder22:46
neostrider2G Surf22:46
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neostriderbut I love it, in all its glorious cheapness22:47
fiehttp://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile22:47
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neostriderim in shock!22:49
fiehmm... there's not a download for it. :-/22:49
fiesudo apt-get install ubuntu-mobile22:49
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fiehttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/mobile/releases/hardy/ OOooooo22:50
dsampleIt just looke like Canola2, lol22:50
neostriderhow to test those images?22:51
neostriderqemu?22:51
johnxor buy a samsung q1?22:52
neostriderwe dont have Q1's in Brazil =-P22:53
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neostridersamsung doesnt like us22:53
johnxI don't think we have them here either :)22:53
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qwerty12_N800Go to South Korea and complain :)22:54
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neostridermy south korean (and former samsung employee) ex-girlfriend wouldnt  appreciate it =-P22:55
qwerty12_N800hehe22:56
neostriderhey bondomondo, nice nickname heheh22:56
johnxguess I could just swim over and pick one up...22:56
johnxqwerty12_N800, you could walk over and meet me there22:56
neostridercant you guys just throw one q1 one for me?22:57
qwerty12_N800johnx, I live on an island too :)22:57
neostriderc'mon...its just two oceans from here!22:57
johnxqwerty12_N800, ah. suppose a quick dip and a short stroll then22:57
neostrider(anyone else tried my game?)22:57
johnxI will in the morning. but for now I'm headed to sleep actually22:58
johnxI'll download it now though :)22:58
neostriderthanks22:58
qwerty12_N800johnx, hehe, i'll let you do all  the talking. if i argue, samsung will be treated to my extensive range of offensive words :p22:58
neostridercompliments: monteiroquiet at gmail dot com22:58
neostridercomplaints: /dev/null22:59
johnxahaha22:59
heelioanybody here expert in multibooting?22:59
qwerty12_N800lol22:59
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* johnx wants to stab rapidshare some days23:00
neostrider* wants to stab rapidshare just everytime23:00
* qwerty12_N800 has a friend who shares his accounts with me :p23:00
neostrider(oops...forgot the /me )23:00
johnxI only use it some days23:00
* johnx really sleeps23:01
neostriderI only use it becouse geocities is a bad bad bitch sometimes23:01
heelio(don't everybody volunteer at once)23:01
qwerty12_N800geocities.. yeuch23:01
neostriderqwerty12_N800: sometimes a man get's desperate for some web hosting...23:02
neostriderheelio: we dont want to burn your device =-P23:02
qwerty12_N800neostrider, I know, i used geocities years ago :p23:02
heeliohey...23:02
heeliojust wanna know if its doable to do this one thing on an n80023:03
RST38hneostrider: but surely not THAT desperate?23:03
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RST38hheelio: if you mean to inquire about erotic experiences, we can't help you23:03
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neostriderRST38h:  Im cheap =-P23:04
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RST38hneostrider: Google Pages?23:04
heeliowant to triple boot diablo from flash or from 2 1gig partitions on a 2 gig mmc. doable?23:04
neostriderhummmm23:04
neostridermaybe? I will investigate the idea...23:04
neostriderdoes google own everything it displays?23:04
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RST38hno idea23:04
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neostrider( i was being ironic =-P)23:05
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heeliowhile i'm about it, is there a decent gui or menu driven file manager for the tablet, anywhere?23:06
RST38hMidnight Commander, but it has got some issues23:07
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heeliotried that; shoulda specified that if menu driven, needs to be well documented... ;)23:08
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neostriderwell folks, got to go23:09
RST38hIf you can't figure how MC works, I can't help you23:09
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neostriderIm working on the multiplayer version of Angstron...23:09
neostriderthanks for the help23:09
neostrider[]s23:09
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RST38h=)23:09
fieyeah the q1 looks pretty sexy23:09
fieonly 3 hours though.23:09
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smokieHi, while installing the 4.1.1 SDK i get following erro => Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/libh/libhildon/libhildon1_2.0.6-1_i386.deb  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/s/samba/libsmbclient-dev_3.0.23c-1osso11_i386.deb  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer)23:31
smokieIs this a temporary server problem ?23:31
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heelioanybody know whats wrong with my mc booting copy of knips? only gives me a green screen. works okay booting from flash.23:55
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GNUtonhi ther23:56
GNUtone23:56
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