IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-02-15

Navi_and have no swap00:00
Navi_Faster if you kill everything than waiting for load times00:00
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GeneralAntillesPoor INdT guys are gonna have to work up a Canola for OS2008HE now.00:04
mmrwhys that00:04
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Navi_Heh00:04
mmrhave i missed the new version00:04
k-s[WORK]GeneralAntilles: it would be easier00:04
k-s[WORK]GeneralAntilles: 2007 sucks hard00:04
GeneralAntillesI don't envy the work.00:05
Vudentz__?00:05
GeneralAntillesmmr, see maemo.org00:05
k-s[WORK]it's not stable AND it's old/broken00:05
Vudentz__The newer the better00:05
Navi_heh00:05
mmrah gotcha00:05
mmrunbelievable00:05
mmrwho would have thought the old 770 still had some lif eleft00:06
* mmr wonders if he can install vista on a 48600:06
Navi_ha00:07
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jkuso no more hacker editions after this, that's what the announcement looks like to me...00:08
mmri wonder when 2008 next edition is coming out for n800/810 and what the improvements are00:08
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jkummr, probably whenever the WIMAX version is released00:09
GeneralAntillesjku, "She jus' canna take anymore!"00:09
GeneralAntillesSupposed a fix for the race issue should be out soon.00:10
GeneralAntillesSo, probably that, then the WiMAX version.00:10
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mmrrace issue?00:10
jkuGeneralAntilles, :) yeah I understand the reasons00:10
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GeneralAntillesThe power-on problems, mmr.00:11
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mmrah00:12
jkuGeneralAntilles, still, that will be the time when the important proprietary bits will hurt the most: I guess no-one will be able to upgrade the kernel and still keep wireless working on the 770...00:12
jku... even if there was community driven 770 OS development00:12
mmrisnt it a shame they dont worry about europeans who are not likely to ever see wimax00:13
mmrseeing as 3g is hitting 7.2meg00:13
jkummr, what do you mean?00:13
jkuthat they should have released a 3G version and not wimax?00:13
* lcuk_3 has a 3g phone, but its locked inside a 128x128 cell leaving my n810 cold and lonely00:14
mmrwell it would be an idea00:14
jkuthen someone would be saying " isnt it a shame they dont worry about americans..."00:14
mmryes but nokia usually worries first about europeans00:15
mmrcdma came waay after gsm00:15
jkuI guess they see that as a problem :)00:15
lcuk_3have we heard anything about the gps initialization problem yet?     do we know if nokia are wroking on it00:15
jkuI don't know if there is a specific problem. I guess the chip is just really bad without assistance...00:16
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Navi_I have a 3G phone, I think. If I had money to go on a non-prepaid plan, I would know :300:16
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maddleryawn!00:36
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t_s_ogah, why is it that it seems apple invented on the go web surfing with the iphone?!01:20
glassbecause there's the truth and then theres apple advertising01:21
glassyou know why they didn't participate on mwc or last years 3gsm..01:21
glassthey like to pretend others don't exist(and also that others don't have decent batt life in 3g etc)01:21
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glassit's just basic apple marketing01:22
t_s_oand when presented with the N800 or N810 they grasp multitouch as the holy grail...01:22
glassand "virtual"gps as "as good as real thing"01:23
wndglass, s/apple //01:23
t_s_ohave not seen that yet01:23
glasst_s_o: it was on this one video01:24
glasst_s_o: where someone went on to interview people lining up before iphone release01:24
t_s_ostill, a magazine that writes about mobile phones and similar gave the N810 and ipod touch about the same overall score, with the touch getting 1 point more because of default multimedia capabilities01:24
glasst_s_o: he shot the video with a n95 and asked all kinda things about people who were lining up01:25
glassabout gps etc01:25
t_s_o:P01:25
glasssomeone of them said it has "virtual gps" and shit like that(apparently a map program is 'virtual gps')01:25
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t_s_ogot to love the RDF...01:27
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jotthas someone by any chance a gdbserver that works in the n8x0 initfs uclibc env?01:29
jkuglass, not that wlan positioning isn't cool...01:29
glassjku: it wasnt that01:30
jku but "virtual positioning" should be insulting to anyones intelligence01:30
glassyeah.. saying such a thing when you're pinpointing your location by hand is just bs01:30
jkuvrirtual gps, I mean01:30
jkugod, I can't spell01:30
glassdunno if they've added some cellid or something positioning to it now01:31
glassprobably not01:31
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jkuglass, yes, that's it01:31
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glassjku: have they added it to iphone? it didn't ship with it01:31
jkuhaven't seen it, but so I've understood01:31
glassgooglemaps on mobiles has it01:31
Stskeepson the ones that let you get cell id, probably :P01:32
t_s_obtw, is it just me or is a increasing number of pages providing special iphone layouts? talk about mindshare...01:32
glassStskeeps: ye01:32
Stskeepsand then it takes a big db of cell id -> location, which for some reason is hard to get in some EU countries (denmark)01:32
glasst_s_o: it's to be in the hype..01:32
Stskeeps:P01:32
Stskeepswhich makes it even more useless01:32
glassStskeeps: it's hard to get anywhere where the operator isn't willing to give you the db01:32
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|tbb|gnight all01:33
jkuglass, just checked: both iphone and touch support wlan positioning01:33
Stskeepsnow, if we were talking RSS & tower IDs, we might be talking01:33
Stskeeps:P01:33
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glassjku: ok's01:33
Stskeepshrm. reminds me, i should try out the n800 and see if it's even remotely suitable for wlan positioning01:33
jkuStskeeps, I'm ahead of you...01:34
jkuit is01:34
Stskeepssounds good - how sensitive is it?01:34
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jkusensitive in what?01:35
jkuseeing networks?01:35
Stskeepswell, wlan positioning quality usually depends on the sensitivity/quality of the RSS value :)01:35
jkuit looks fine, but I didn't actually use it yet -- in urban areas there are so many networks that just stupid  triangulation is fairly usable01:37
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Stskeeps*nod*01:37
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jkuthis is with an extremely stupid positioning algo;01:37
jkuhttp://maps.google.fi/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=fi&msa=0&msid=103576186623008880757.0004455aea7187c72b5f2&z=1701:38
Stskeepsi worked as a student programmer on a WLAN/DECT positioning project for 3 years, hence my wierd questions :P01:38
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jkuI had 10 control locations, only 5 are shown, but the rest were similar: ~45m difference to GPS01:39
Stskeeps*nod*01:39
jkuI imagine using signal quality should get to around 30 which is what skyhook et al advertize01:40
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jkuStskeeps, if that project is something you can talk about, let me know...02:09
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jkuGoing to sleep now, but leave me a msg if I can contact you about it02:10
goat|workHi, I'm trying to update my N800 to OS2008, using these instructions:  http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/    getting the following error:02:10
goat|work$sudo ./flasher-3.0 -F RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R02:12
goat|work./flasher-3.0: 2: Syntax error: newline unexpected02:12
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goat|workthe only reference i found is on an itialian site where an admin uploaded a different version of flasher-3.002:14
goat|worksorry for the google spam in the url,  its converted to english:  http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.itopen.it/nokia770forum/viewtopic.php%3Fpid%3D4830&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dflasher-3.0%2Bnewline%2Bunexpected%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1B3GGGL_enUS220US222%26sa%3DG02:15
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wndgoat|work, sounds like you have a broken file at hand. judging by that url the file is html, not an executable.02:20
lcuk_3goat|work, it looks like your flasher3 isnt an executable02:20
lcuk_3go redownload the flasher02:20
* leif__ just installed LCARS 4.0 on the OS2008 Hacker Edition on 77002:20
lcuk_3it looks like you right clicked and saved instead of left clicking and processing (to give you the flasher executable result download)02:21
leif__two crashes so far, both while setting the desktop wallpaper02:21
leif__though the second time it did work02:21
leif__the name of the FIASCO image indicates this 2008 hacker edition is version 4.2007.50-602:22
leif__but the browser calls itself RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.48-902:23
leif__er "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv5tejl; en-US; rv:1.9a6pre) Gecko/20071205 Firefox/3.0a1 Tablet browser 0.2.2 RX-34+RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.48-9" to be exact02:25
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leif__/etc/osso_software_version also says it is 2008SE_2.2007.48-9_PR_MR002:25
leif__meanwhile the latest release for N8x0 is still 2008SE_2.2007.50-202:26
goat|worklcuk_3: thanks,  i'll try redownloading the flasher02:27
leif__I wonder where they got the name SU-18_2008HACKER_4.2007.50-6_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin from02:27
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leif__still an ancient kernel :(02:28
leif__I guess 2.6.16.27-omap1 from Sep 19 2006 will be the last kernel we get from Nokia02:29
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leif__while it isn't blazingly fast, I'm actually surprised by how fast OS2008 is running now. While installing LCARS (prior to enabling swap) it was exceedingly slow02:31
leif__but now it seems alright02:32
goat|workok, so I left clicked and re-saved the file from this locatoin: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php?f=flasher-3.0    and when I run: file flasher-3.0   I get ASCII C++ Program text02:32
goat|workbut I still get the same error02:33
leif__C++ program text?!02:33
goat|workyes02:33
leif__can you paste a line or two here please?02:33
GeneralAntillesleif__, yeah it's pretty responsive.02:33
goat|worksure, hold on02:34
GeneralAntillesApp Manager is ridiculously slow in all the hacker editions, though.02:34
leif__goat|work, file has been known to make mistakes02:34
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leif__hi johnx02:38
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johnxhey02:38
leif__do you have a 770?02:38
johnxnope02:38
musikgoatok, http://pastebin.com/d67a2c85902:38
johnxjust an n800 (and some zauruses)...02:38
musikgoatleif__: ^^02:38
* leif__ wonders about running debian on 77002:38
johnxleif__, I know b0unc3 got it working to some degree using the tarball I put up02:39
johnxand 'apple2' on itt had a different method for running debian on the 77002:39
leif__musikgoat, can you paste the output of "head flasher-3.0" (I'd guess it is html, not C++ :)02:40
musikgoatyes it is02:40
musikgoat<html>02:41
musikgoat<head>02:41
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leif__but your browser brought up a save dialog when you (left-)clicked the link to it?02:42
musikgoatyes02:42
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leif__strange, i don't know what to tell you02:42
cyberholicGood evening or good morning every one :)02:42
johnxmornin' :D02:43
leif__IT IS AFTERNOON HERE02:43
leif__try again next time02:43
cyberholicits nearly 2 o clock AM here... i have been developing something new.... its a WEB startpage... who wants to try it out from you?02:43
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cyberholicYou do not need to install it!02:43
johnxwoo!02:43
johnxI'll give it a shot02:43
cyberholicI have been working on it since 5 PM and not it is finished :) ....02:43
johnxwow...what does it do?02:44
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cyberholicJohnx... it looks great :) ... i mean... it MAKES look the n8xx look great on my desk... here we go... http://www.cyberholic.de/maemo02:46
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cyberholicYou have to view it in fullscreen02:46
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cyberholicto see the tools, put your finger on the screen and slide from right to left....02:46
musikgoatdoes it do the same for you leif__   from this link? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php?f=flasher-3.002:46
musikgoatleif__: I'm just dropping the f=... stuff02:47
cyberholicno... it doesnt....02:47
cyberholicoh... sorry musikgoat, thought you asked me :)02:47
cyberholicand johnx... you like it?02:48
GeneralAntillesCool stuff, cyberholic.02:48
cyberholicthankx pal....02:48
musikgoatthats cool cyberholic, leif__,  the bin is downloading correctly if I go to the d3.php page first and agree to the terms02:48
GeneralAntillesMight be cool to leave it open in fullscreen if MicroB weren't going to eat the battery alive.02:48
cyberholicyeah02:48
cyberholicthanks for your props :)02:49
leif__musikgoat, yes, it downloads the html page with their EULA when i click that link you sent02:49
leif__wack02:49
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musikgoatleif__: is this page editable by me?  http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/02:49
cyberholicyou can download it to your device, it is only 50 kb big02:49
GeneralAntillesI'm getting some scroll at fullscreen. :<02:49
cyberholicwell... if you want to, i can send it to you :)02:50
musikgoatI will just drop the f=flasher-3.0 from the link02:50
musikgoatcyberholic: I've now got the file02:50
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musikgoatthanks tho02:50
cyberholicgeneral: do you have the toolbar on? (t the bottom)02:50
leif__musikgoat, i think if you need to login to edit, but yes it should be... it claims to be a wiki after all :)02:50
leif__s/if//02:50
infobotleif__ meant: musikgoat, i think  you need to login to edit, but yes it should be... it claims to be a wiki after all :)02:50
musikgoatlol02:51
GeneralAntillesNo, toolbar is off.02:51
johnxthat's pretty neat :D02:51
GeneralAntillesLike, 10px of scroll.02:51
leif__cyberholic, i'm seeing scrollbars also, even with the toolbar off02:51
cyberholicreally strange....02:51
GeneralAntillesYeah02:51
GeneralAntillesIt's scroll because the scrollbars are showing.02:52
cyberholicwhat devices you guys have? i own a n800 and everything is finde here.02:52
GeneralAntillesIf the scrollbars weren't showing, there wouldn't be scroll.02:52
GeneralAntillesN800 OS200802:52
leif__same02:52
GeneralAntillesFlashblock installed02:52
cyberholicAh... wait! my error!02:52
GeneralAntillesThat might do it.02:52
cyberholicok, that was my error... now it should work! refresh please :)02:54
musikgoatthanks for your help folks02:54
GeneralAntilles16bit becomes glaringly obvious with gradients.02:54
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* GeneralAntilles hopes for a better screen with the N900.02:54
cyberholicyeah... thats what i thought too. but its better then having everything black, dont you think?02:54
leif__reloaded, still got the scrollbars02:55
* pupnik hopes someone finds the 'verysimple' 80286 dosbox core sources by Boris Letocha02:55
cyberholicleif_ could you try to clear cache. The error was at my site, that i tould html that the flash file has a size of 800x480, but now i forced him to take 100% width and 100% height02:56
goat|workwill a backup file from OS2007 work on OS200802:57
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goat|workI'm getting prompted whether or not I want to load the backup file02:57
leif__ok, it works now02:58
GeneralAntillesgoat, did you use Opera or MicroB?02:58
cyberholicleif: great... sorry for these problems, i am just tired ;)02:58
goat|workhmm, not sure specifically,  I ran the backup from within the installed software02:58
cyberholicgeneral: do you use Opera?02:58
GeneralAntillesNo, OS200802:59
* GeneralAntilles hasn't used Opera since the MicroB beta came out.02:59
leif__another bug: on the minimal analog clock screen, there is a stripe of white pixels on the left side02:59
GeneralAntillesgoat, restoring a backup where Opera was the primary browser will cause troubles.02:59
GeneralAntillesfor the most part, though, OS2007 backups work fine.02:59
goat|workok, good to know03:00
goat|workthanks03:00
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leif__cyberholic, and on the digital clock screen, it is on the right. And they're actually not white pixels, but the grey from the calendar screen03:02
leif__cyberholic, on the timers screen, it is possible to start each timer multiple times03:03
leif__leading to multiple overlapping alarms going off, and negative numbers on the tea timer03:03
leif__and on the "any" timer, it is not possible to edit the number as the keyboard just opens and closes (maybe it works on n810?)03:04
cyberholicleif_ thanks a lot! I think i will take the grey faded background away.... just gimme a second03:05
leif__cyberholic, this box that drops down from the top... how is it supposed to be opened? I've seen it twice, but I don't know how i got it03:07
leif__ah dragging down, i get it03:08
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cyberholicleif: if you slide from top to down03:09
cyberholic:)03:09
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cyberholicDoes anyone has any wishes to implement into that page?03:26
cyberholicI mean my tool aka THat tool :)03:26
cyberholicSorry, i am getting realy tired... so much that i can not remember how to clear a setintervall in flash :(03:27
leif__cyberholic, no specific requests here... but when you first said "start page" i was expecting web/internet types of things03:32
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cyberholicleif_ yeah... wrong title from me... i should call it "desktop clock" but even though most will misunderstand it :)03:38
jottcyberholic: the digital clock has a white line on the left side of the screen03:38
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cyberholicjott: have you cleared the cache? i thought i debugged that...03:40
jotti think so (just tried again)03:43
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cyberholicjott: sorry for my bad english, but does that mean that it is ok now?03:46
jottno.. :)03:47
jottit's still there03:47
jottlet me restart the browser ..03:47
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jottyes.. the white line is still there (on the first slide and on the 3rd/digital clock slide)03:49
lcuk_3cyberholic :) good to see you adapted your stance slightly, i like the interface03:49
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cyberholiclcuk... sorry ... did not catch up with what you mean.... have to exercise my english ;) ... what do you mean with "adapted your stance slightly" ?03:51
cyberholicjott: are you viewing it in fullscreen?03:51
cyberholicok... forget my last question.... i now have it too!03:51
lcuk_3your fanzine thing had us jumping through hoops to try and view it03:51
lcuk_3this is just direct on a page :)03:51
cyberholicMY cache was not cleared :(03:51
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cyberholicOk guys, i realy have to go to bed now. I have been working for over 18 hours by now and have to get up in 6 hours again. Thanks a lot for your testing of the cyberholic tool. wish you the best and see you later....03:59
johnxthanks for the page. it's pretty slick. :D04:00
johnx'night04:00
pupnikcheers cyberholic04:00
cyberholicOh and yes, i will take care about the countdown and teatimer bugs!04:00
cyberholicnite people.04:00
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leif__any python hackers awake?04:04
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leif__might get a laugh out of this code I wrote: http://synthesize.us/sourceCheck.html04:05
leif__(I decided to write a one-line python script instead of using that perl module I was talking about the other day)04:06
leif__turns out python's email module can easily parse dpkg's metadata files :)04:06
johnxleif__, that's pretty cool04:07
leif__as suspected, osso-rss-feed-reader is not the only piece of GPL software with a newer version on the device than in the source repo04:08
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johnxyeah, I'm sure I've seen a couple things at least04:09
johnxlet me guess: bluez-utils is on that list as well?04:09
leif__yes, bluez-utils (binary: 3.22-0osso2, source: 3.20-0osso2)04:11
leif__(that is from the 2008HE actually)04:11
johnx2008HE??04:11
johnxhmm?04:11
leif__hacker edition04:11
leif__77004:11
johnxthere's a 2008HE out?04:11
leif__yeah just came out today i think04:11
johnx!!04:12
leif__once swap is enabled it isn't too bad04:12
johnxI'm offline for like 12 hours and I miss that...I really thought they were going to put that off for months04:12
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GeneralAntillesHa04:12
GeneralAntillesI was guessing at least another month.04:12
johnxI was guessing indefinitely04:12
leif__Quim said "very soon" when asked on thoughtfix's show04:13
leif__i didn't think it would be this soon though :)04:13
johnxyeah, really04:13
leif__i still haven't installed the most recent release of ITOS2008 on my N80004:14
johnxthe 2007-50.2?04:15
leif__yeah04:15
leif__anyone else want to run this to make a list of what is missing? there are 85 "wrong versions" on the 2008HE...04:15
jacqueswhat happened?04:15
leif__wget http://repository.maemo.org/dists/maemo4.0/free/source/Sources && echo 'from sys import argv; from email import Parser; print "\n".join( (lambda sourceLists=["Sources"], packageLists=["/var/lib/dpkg/status"], parseFile=(lambda file, parser=Parser.Parser().parsestr: (dict(parser(package)._headers) for package in "".join(open(file)).split("\n\n"))) : [ "%s: %s (binary: %s, source: %s)" % (bin == src and "OK" or src and "Wrong version" or "Source04:15
leif__missing", package, bin, src) for sources, binaries in [( dict((binary, source["Version"]) for source in (source for file in sourceLists for source in parseFile(file) if source) for binary in source["Binary"].split(", ")), dict(((package["Package"], package["Version"]) for file in packageLists for package in parseFile(file) if package.get("Version"))))] for package in binaries for bin, src in [(binaries[package], sources.get(package))] ])(*[[f for f04:15
leif__in argv[1:] if f.endswith(s)] for s in ("Sources", "Packages") if argv[1:]]))'|python -|sort|grep 'Wrong version' > biglist.txt04:15
GeneralAntillesohgod04:15
leif__sorry :)04:16
leif__but what is the point of writing long one-liners if not to paste them on IRC?04:16
johnxdefinitely 3 lines here :P04:16
leif__and who says python needs whitespace?04:16
leif__er i guess there is no need to have the sort and the grep at the end there, sorry :/04:18
leif__one or the other makes sense, but not both.04:18
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goat|workanyone know if the servers where the maps are dl'ed from is reallly slow or is it just my connection?04:20
goat|workfor OS200804:20
johnxwell, I haven't downloaded maps recently, but Nokia's servers being slow wouldn't be news...04:21
goat|workI'm trying to DL the Central Europe one (cause the US east was ~700MB)  which is about 51MB, and its been chugging along.  its making progress on the 50MB, at this rate, 700MB will take days :-D04:22
goat|workis there another DL method?  pc based?04:22
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GeneralAntillesLooks like adv-backlight is still no-go under OS2008HE.04:24
johnxwhat kernel are they using on OS2008HE?04:24
leif__still 2.6.16.27-omap1 from Sep 19 2006 :(04:25
Navi2008HE is out?04:25
johnxapparently04:25
* leif__ is running it04:25
NaviThat's a zomg04:25
NaviDoes it suck as much as '07HE?04:25
johnxalso, pigs flying over here, devil seen ice skating...04:25
leif__I never used the 07HE much, but so far I've only had two crashes and both were while setting the home screen background04:26
Navijohnx, any pictures??? OMGOMGOMG04:26
johnx:P04:26
leif__it is painful slow until you enable swap04:26
johnxI wonder if a lighter GTK theme would help04:27
leif__GeneralAntilles, notice that the built-in brightness applet in OS2008 has a lot more levels on 770 than N800?04:27
johnxahahaha...that's awesome :D04:28
GeneralAntillesYeah, I knew nothing would change from OS2007HE, but I can always hope.04:28
leif__well i'm reluctant to say it is definitely the case, because I'm not sure how it would be, but it sure feels like LCARS made it faster :)04:28
GeneralAntillesNo transparency is LCARS, right?04:29
GeneralAntilless/is/in/04:29
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: No transparency in LCARS, right?04:29
johnxah, but LCARS still uses sapwood, right? I guess what I meant to say was a different gtk engine04:29
leif__only on home applets04:29
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johnxI don't know what it would break, but I can definitely attest to how much of a difference a lighter GTK engine makes on a low-end Linux desktop/laptop04:30
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NaviNot much04:30
leif__It would be interesting to see if hildon could run with a different gtk engine, I think it might not04:30
johnxand sapwood seems pretty heavy, being pixmap based04:30
leif__but... sapwood was written specifically for the 770 wasn't it?04:30
johnxyeah, but I still bet it's heavier than "smooth" or the default gtk theme...04:31
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johnxprobably lighter than the desktop pixbuf engine04:31
NaviThe load between the glossy GTK theme (intensive) compared to flat (pfft) is negligible even on a low-end desktop04:31
Robot101sapwood isn't a theme itself, it's a theme engine, an accelerator, which keeps the pixmaps cached in the X server and draws them from there rather than feeding them to the X server every time04:32
NaviLow end being my own machine: Celeron D, 256MB SDRAM04:32
Robot101I understand that it saves quite a bit of memory copying, scaling and colourspace conversions compared to the normal pixbuf engine04:32
johnxRobot101, Right. I bet it does. But I wonder if a "plain" gtk engine might be faster04:33
Navia bi04:33
Navibit*04:33
Navibut not worth the ugliness04:33
* leif__ has been running two copies of sapwood on the desktop, one for local use and one for Xforwarding themed apps to the N80004:33
johnxwell, I'll test something and get back to you :)04:33
leif__for some reason when I run normal gtk apps using a sapwood theme, the menu padding is all wrong04:34
NaviThe performance difference between gtk theme engines really isn't all that much04:34
johnxNavi, it's noticeable on my zaurus...04:34
Navi'cuz the Zaurus fails.04:34
johnx:P04:35
johnxxscale @ 416MHz is pretty darn close to the OMAP 2420 @ ~400MHz, IIRC04:35
leif__running ITOS with non-hildon gtk themes won't yield a very usable system04:36
johnxwell, I'll give it a shot and see what happens :)04:36
leif__I made a blank theme with no gtkrc at all, and some things look great but the keyboard won't even open04:36
johnxah04:36
johnxwell, maybe nevermind then...04:37
leif__it is too bad there isn't a way to get the plain gtk look in ITOS though04:37
leif__because I kind of like it :)04:37
NaviThe OMAP puhjowns xscale at any close clockrate04:37
johnxNavi, it depends on the task04:37
Navis/clockrate/clockspeed/04:38
infobotNavi meant: The OMAP puhjowns xscale at any close clockspeed04:38
johnxread up on a2dp/sbc encoding maybe?04:38
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NaviPfft, minor niche tasks in a niche market04:39
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johnxheh...whatever04:40
johnxI own *both* devices04:40
johnxit's not like I *want* one to be better04:40
NaviAnd I own neither04:41
Naviit's not like I *care*04:41
GeneralAntillesHaha04:42
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johnxheh...actually I kind of got screwed both ways. The device that actually has a fast enough link between CPU and LCD controller doesn't have the guts for fullscreen 640x480 video and the one that has built-in bluetooth has naturally crappy results when doing SBC encoding...04:46
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NaviHa04:47
johnxand then the device with the formfactor I like (my zaurus 5500) has limited support for kernel 2.604:48
NaviThat's what you get for buying linux devices. Everyone knows that proprietary locked-in devices are best.04:49
johnxoh totally...it's really awesome being at the complete mercy of one vendor whose only goal upon selling you something is to also sell you the next something04:52
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NaviOf course. Only crap comes out of open sourced projects.04:53
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johnxit's times like these when I realize how the computer industry as a whole is the same place the automobile industry was in the 1950s or so04:57
NaviDown with the Tucker!04:58
johnx??04:58
* Navi forgets when the Tuckers were being whipped up04:58
NaviWell, car history then, I guess :)04:59
* johnx hits up google/wikipedia aka the other half of his brain04:59
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NaviPreston Tucker came up with a revolutionary car with features that even modern cars are just _now_ including04:59
* johnx reads05:00
NaviThe big three manufacturers in the US drove him out of business05:00
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leif__only 51 made!05:00
Navis/three/three car/05:00
infobotNavi meant: The big three car manufacturers in the US drove him out of business05:00
leif__(according to the other half of johnx's brain, which is apparently editable by just anyone)05:01
GeneralAntillesCan't reach en.wikipedia.org. :\05:01
NaviInteresting story, really.05:01
NaviThe first display model was made out of junk and didn't even actually run05:02
Navihttp://www.tuckerclub.org/html/history.php05:02
leif__this sounds like the ideal car to dashmount a 770 in05:02
johnxthat 1948 sedan actually looks really slick05:03
leif__thanks Navi, I'd never heard of the Tucker before05:03
NaviUseless facts ain't so useless any more.05:04
GeneralAntillesCheck out the Lincoln Zephyr (40s)05:04
GeneralAntillesPurty car.05:04
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pupnikkarateka! :)05:07
johnxyeah, mechanical fuel injection might not have been the best move...05:09
leif__the 30s/40s Lincoln Zephyr looks very nice, but the 2006 model by the same name... not so much05:09
Navibut fuel injection, nonetheless05:10
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NaviGM's Chevrolet didn't have it until '5705:12
johnxit took quite a while to get fuel injection right...05:12
johnxheck, lots of cars had carbs into the 90s05:12
johnxsame with drum brakes05:12
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, lots of cars have drum brakes now.05:17
johnxyes, and that's terrifying05:17
GeneralAntillesThey're cheap, and perfectly reasonable as rear brakes for 90% of the economy lot.05:17
johnxfor small cars I guess05:17
GeneralAntillesNah, not terrifying at all.05:17
GeneralAntillesMakes great sense as a cost-saving measure.05:18
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GeneralAntillesThey're a LOT cheaper to manufacture.05:18
johnxI'd still rather have disks :)05:18
GeneralAntillesMuch better parking brakes.05:18
johnxthat's because they're easy to lock :P05:18
GeneralAntillesDisc brakes only get a stupid little miniscule pad for the parking brake05:19
GeneralAntillesdrum brakes use the real pad.05:19
GeneralAntillesYou're only doing 20% of the braking on the rears, anyway.05:19
GeneralAntillesSo things like fade and power aren't really an issue.05:19
johnxyeah, I just had lots of fun with locking the rear drums (sometimes on purpose, sometimes not...) on my '82 honda accord05:20
Navilol05:20
johnxlooking back, I probably needed to check the brake balance05:20
GeneralAntillesHa05:20
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* johnx actually started like 4 wheel discs with ABS the last time he drove in the ice/snow05:21
johnxs/like/liking/g05:21
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pupnikwow, this emu is only taking 8-10% cpu05:24
Navi?05:24
pupnikdown to 6 now05:24
NaviWhich emu?05:24
pupnikthe one i'm tweaking :)05:25
Navi:P05:25
NaviWhat does it emulate?05:25
pupnikan old computer05:25
pupnikbut as usual there's all kinds of ui crapola that needs doing05:26
pupnikand sound is bluttery05:26
NaviWhat operating system does this old computer that's trying to be emulated run?05:26
leif__And, does the old computer's CPU have a name?05:31
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johnxif not, can we name it? I' thinking "Fred" would be good...05:32
GeneralAntillesNo, "James".05:33
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doc|homeso, can someone explain to me why it's so difficult to get replacement styluses?05:37
GeneralAntillesBecause Nokia hates you.05:37
doc|homebut, I give them money :(05:38
GeneralAntillesor, it's punishment for being forgetful. :P05:38
doc|homeI wasn't forgetful, my dog decided he might like to chew on it for a bit05:38
doc|homelittle shit05:38
doc|homeso I have one left and a fear of being forgetful :/05:38
GeneralAntillesGot another one in the box?05:39
doc|homeyep05:39
GeneralAntillesI've only almost lost one stylus with 4 tablets.05:39
doc|homeso you have some spares you might flog? :)05:39
GeneralAntillesFell asleep in the break room at work using the tablet.05:39
GeneralAntillesFell into the cushions, but I found it later.05:39
GeneralAntilles2 spares for the N800s, 2 for the 770s. :P05:40
doc|homewant to sell them?05:40
NaviUse it to create a mold05:40
pupniki found a set on ebay05:40
GeneralAntillesHaha05:40
doc|homepupnik: I looked yesterday, couldn't see any05:40
GeneralAntillesI like that thinking.05:40
GeneralAntillesManufacture them.05:40
Naviand then create cheap replacement styluses and sell them for five dollars each05:40
NaviIdiots like GeneralAntilles will buy them up05:40
doc|homeand me :o05:40
GeneralAntillesHaha05:40
GeneralAntillesSomebody should do that.05:40
NaviSee?05:41
Navi:305:41
GeneralAntillesCompletely plastic.05:41
NaviI would go the other way05:41
Navicompletely stainless steel05:41
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doc|homeyeah, completely metal would be better05:41
Navigood feel to it05:41
doc|homethen little shithead dogs wouldn't be able to chew them :(05:41
GeneralAntillesBatch of a thousand would cost, what, $0.05-.10 a piece?05:41
johnxsomething like lead would be good05:41
NaviDon't make fun of dogs like that.05:41
doc|homejohnx: nah, silver, or platinum05:41
doc|homeNavi: I won't make fun when he doesn't chew my shit05:42
NaviOnly make fun of humans. Humans are expendable05:42
doc|home1,200 dollar stylus :D05:42
NaviHaha :)05:42
NaviThere's something I wouldn't want to forget05:42
doc|homeNavi: so are dogs once they're dropped off 10th floor balconies05:42
* doc|home looks out his window05:42
doc|homeso, eh, wanting to flog spare styluses anyone? :)05:43
NaviMelt down your wife's jewelry to make a stylus05:43
NaviShe'll appreciate it05:43
joebloeanyone know if evince works on OS2008 yet?05:43
NaviBuild it05:44
GeneralAntillesIt has for a while, joebloe.05:44
joebloeok .. i am somewhat obtuse tonight .. guess lack of sleep .. is it availible from one of the repositories .. or do i need to manually grab it?05:45
GeneralAntillesCheck gronmayer05:45
GeneralAntillesor google05:45
NaviI should try to compile scratchbox/maemo-sdk on cygwin some time.05:45
johnxNavi, because you hate yourself?05:45
joebloeok .. thanks .. will look on gronmayer05:45
NaviBecause it would let Windows developers to get into the action without having to boot Windows or under a VM05:46
Navi:P05:46
johnxI mean....ow, seriously. Not anything against Windows, but scratchbox even hates non-debuntu linux05:46
Navis/Windows/Linux05:46
Naviscratchbox is fine under non-debian linux distros05:46
johnxI thought that was where most people had setup issues?05:47
pupnikargh why is sdl sound so problematic with emulators05:47
* Navi isn't running a debian-based distro05:47
johnxnever looked too closely...05:47
johnxoh, well I take it back then05:47
johnxhave fun :)05:47
doc|homestyluses? anyone? :)05:47
Navithere was one set up issue quickly resolved by setting a var05:47
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johnxdoc|home, I'd love one05:53
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susejhello05:56
johnxhello05:56
susejim lloking for a video chat client that also works with pc05:56
johnxI believe that gizmo does05:58
susejso i thought05:59
NaviSo you thought?05:59
susejbut when i installed it there were no video otions05:59
NaviPC Gizmo has video.05:59
suseji oculd not find a link to a beta or anything05:59
susejyes05:59
NaviN800 Gizmo has video.06:00
susejbut for my n800 its does not06:00
susejis there a beta version i have to get?06:00
suseji have 3.1.0.7806:00
NaviYour version is dated.06:00
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susejwhat is the current version?06:01
NaviChinook has 4.0.0.9506:01
suseji am running bora06:01
NaviBut Gizmo 3 had video as well.06:01
GeneralAntillesWhy would you be running Bora?06:01
susejjust opened it06:01
NaviThe general consensus is that you flash right away.06:02
susejwhat is the favored os?06:02
NaviOf course, you shouldn't listen to me as I don't own one.06:02
GeneralAntillesThe latest, susej.06:02
susejthe latest being chinook?06:02
NaviYes.06:03
GeneralAntillesMore accurately, OS200806:03
suseji thougt that chinook was for the 81006:03
susejso there is a os 2008 for the n80006:03
NaviThe N810 is just the N800 with a few revisions, all the same.06:03
susejorly?06:04
susejhowso navi06:04
GeneralAntillesYes.06:04
NaviHowso? Same hardware.06:04
GeneralAntillesGPS, transflective, keyboard, minisd06:04
GeneralAntillesThat's pretty much the extent of the differences.06:04
NaviI guess not everyone is like me. I really dig deep into the stuff I buy.06:06
Navis/buy/looking to buy/06:06
infobotNavi meant: I guess not everyone is like me. I really dig deep into the stuff I looking to buy.06:06
Navis/I looking/I'm looking/06:06
leif__Navi, susej, Gizmo 3 does not have video afaik06:06
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leif__Gizmo 4 does06:06
NaviReally? I remember people making video calls back on Bora.06:07
GeneralAntillesUsing GTalk06:08
Naviah06:08
leif__and gizmo 4 is still not out for mac or linux (except ITOS2008)06:09
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NaviFunny06:09
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NaviWhat about Skype?06:09
NaviNo video on the ITs?06:10
johnxvideo on desktop linux, no video on ITs06:10
johnxfunny, isn't it?06:10
Navithe irony kills06:10
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johnxso Navi, which tablet are you leaning towards? is the requirement just pocketable and Linux or something else?06:15
NaviLeaning towards?06:16
johnxif you were to get a tablet, which one would it be?06:16
johnxwhat is your preference?06:17
susejhey guys thanks for all the help06:17
susejone more nub question b4 i go06:17
johnxsure06:18
susejwhere can i down load the os200806:18
Navimaemo.org06:18
GeneralAntilleshttp://tablet-dev.nokia.org/nokia_N800.php06:18
leif__http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php06:18
Navijohnx, there are several factors in my decision06:18
GeneralAntillesI won locally!06:18
leif__me too!06:18
GeneralAntillesBut I screwed up the link. . .06:18
GeneralAntillesDAMN!06:18
NaviGeneralAntilles, you won globally06:18
Navisans leif__06:18
* GeneralAntilles concedes to leif__.06:18
NaviAnyways06:19
Navijohnx, first and foremost is that it must be officially supported for at least a few more years after my purchase, or have a powerful development community behind it06:19
Navisecondly, it's gotta perform well _with_ good battery life. One without the other just doesn't cut it for me.06:20
leif__so, looking at the 770's new unsupported release today with the same old kernel from September 2006 probably isn't encouraging you to buy from Nokia then?06:21
NaviOf course, it's gotta be pocketable and not too expensive06:21
leif__;)06:21
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NaviThe proprietary bits really fuck it up.06:22
johnxso is Linux one of the requirements?06:22
leif__yeah.06:22
NaviNo, but it's a nice bonus. The fact that the IT _is_ Linux is a plus, however, the proprietary bits that come with it doesn't help it's case06:23
Navis/IT/NIT/06:23
infobotNavi meant: No, but it's a nice bonus. The fact that the NIT _is_ Linux is a plus, however, the proprietary bits that come with it doesn't help it's case06:23
suseji thought i only had one more06:25
NaviReally now, GNU is all about all or nothing. You either open the entire device or you lock it up. At least it's not the Mylo, though.06:25
susejis the current version 2.2007.50-2?06:25
johnxsusej, yes06:25
johnxNavi, yeah...I'm not exactly thrilled either06:25
NaviI'm already set on buying the NIT, GeneralAntilles's fault.06:26
johnxheh...it really is pretty much the only thing in its category right now06:26
* leif__ wonders where the 2008SE_2.2007.51-3 useragents got their firmware06:26
leif__(seen in access_log)06:26
NaviI was hoping the Intel MID would come around before I make a purchase06:27
johnxleif__, that's an user agent...06:27
GeneralAntillesInternal testing, leif__.06:27
GeneralAntillesMara, Texrat, etc.06:27
johnxrather, that's an *interesting* user agent06:27
johnxNavi, Until I see hardware in users' hands I'm not too inclined to believe how incredible the MIDs will be...06:28
leif__as i mentioned the other day, there are also some people running RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_0.2008.06-1006:28
NaviI'm infering on their decisions from past experience06:28
NaviIntel has a good track record of opening their drivers06:28
johnxsomewhat06:28
leif__i used a samsung UMPC with the intel MID software at linuxworld sf last year06:29
johnxthey seem to be coming around recently06:29
leif__it was running google earth :)06:29
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johnxleif__, impressive. how did the software feel compared to nokia's maemo?06:29
leif__it felt like a 900mhz intel system06:29
leif__because it was06:29
NaviHaha06:30
leif__but it wouldn't fit in my pocket.06:30
GeneralAntillesleif__, can you suck the firmware out through their browsers? :P06:30
NaviWell, it was a Samsung UMPC :P06:30
johnxheh...but the actual design of the UI?06:30
leif__it was ubuntu mobile edition, before gutsy was officially released06:30
NaviHa06:31
johnxso pretty unfinished?06:31
leif__apt-get install ubuntu-mobile if you want to see it...06:31
johnxyeah, I guess I should06:31
NaviThey have a site06:31
leif__yeah it was pretty unfinished at the time, and what really killed me was the home screen was all implemented in flash :(06:31
Navior a dedicated page, at least06:31
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Navihttp://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile06:31
johnxI have hardy on my craptastic laptop, I'll just do my guinea pig experiments on it...06:32
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leif__one of the intel guys from China had his 770 with him :)06:33
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NaviLol06:33
leif__so does anyone know if Ubuntu is working on an arm port?06:34
NaviPfft06:34
leif__there was talk about it at one time, but i never saw anything substantive06:34
johnxleif__, I highly doubt it06:34
NaviUbuntu's just a preconfigured Debian06:34
johnxthey even dropped PPC06:34
NaviIf there is one, they'll just piggyback on Debian-ARM's progress.06:35
johnxwell a lot of devs work on packages for both...06:35
johnxAFAIK06:35
leif__johnx, not completely dropped06:35
johnxreally? I didn't think they had a gutsy or feisty release for it?06:35
leif__http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/hardy/main/binary-powerpc/06:36
johnxso they have a community supported release now...ok, I see06:36
leif__right.06:36
leif__Navi, Ubuntu is a little more than just a preconfigured Debian06:38
NaviHa, maybe to you.06:38
leif__if you want to run closer-to-current versions of software without compiling your own stuff or using testing or unstable, Ubuntu has it06:39
johnxI'm perfectly happy with either for the most part...06:39
NaviArchLinux.06:40
leif__I'm perfectly happy using both06:40
rm_youjohnx: johnx :P06:40
johnxrm_you, rm_you ?06:40
leif__Navi, I've looked at that but haven't run it yet. Is that what you use?06:40
rm_youjohnx: nothing :) just saying hi06:40
NaviAll right, A stable preconfigured Debian Sid06:40
Navileif__, yes.06:41
acydlordand there is mint06:41
NaviMint is a themed Ubuntu06:41
acydlordthe windows vista of debian distros06:41
* rm_you runs Ubuntu Mint06:41
rm_youi like the theme :P and it comes with all the codecs i want06:42
NaviI have to compile a few things to stay on the bleeding edge though, like mplayer-svn and ffmpeg-svn06:42
acydlordeven ubuntu is too bloated for my tastes in their stock install06:42
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rm_youcompiling mplayer is my hobby :P06:42
rm_youlol, yeah... i just installed debian on my server a few weeks ago and was reminded how ridiculously trim and snappy it is comparatively06:43
Naviwebkit-svn, midori as well06:43
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johnxNavi, I finally got my midori build up in OE06:43
Navicool06:43
NaviYeah, I heard06:43
johnxoh, right06:43
johnxforgot if you were there06:43
* johnx tends to just repeat the same things ... O_o06:44
Navi^_^06:44
rm_youwhat is midori? besides delicious melon liquor and japanese for "green"? >_>06:44
johnxlightweight webkit based browser in gtk06:44
leif__johnx, have you tried building chinook-compatible packages in OE (as talked about on planet maemo today)?06:44
rm_youah06:44
rm_youneat06:44
Navigtk and libsexy06:44
johnxleif__, sure, i'll give it a shot06:45
leif__dunno if there are still pieces missing for that06:45
johnxwell, I'll see06:46
johnxalso, I'd like to try and get an angstrom build for the N80006:46
leif__there have been images of that available, but haven't tried it yet06:48
leif__the only non-ITOS distro I've run on my N800 yet was Poky06:49
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johnxI thought I heard various things didn't work in those...06:49
leif__yeah.06:49
leif__it was fun for a little while though06:49
johnxit should be trivial to take the things that make Debian work and add them to angstrom06:49
johnxand to tell the truth...debian really is a little heavy for a zaurus or n80006:50
johnxand the situation for cross compiling leaves something to be desired...06:50
johnxah, I assume the chinook-compat stuff is in OE .dev not OE .angstrom-2007.1-stable06:52
johnxbleh06:52
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GeneralAntillesWhy does everybody want to feed the newbies red pill as some sort of magical fix-all on ITT? <_<06:56
Navihaha06:56
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leif__johnx, "The most parts are already committed to the OpenEmbedded upstream, but we are still maintaining an overlay in our svn." according to http://smancke.blogs.evolvis.org/2008/02/13/using-openembedded-for-maemo-development/06:57
leif__whatever that means06:57
johnxleif__, thanks. I will RTFA :)06:57
leif__GeneralAntilles, because it sounds cool?06:57
NaviI choose the blue pill06:58
NaviAnyways, Debian's too heavy for the NIT?06:58
leif__yes please elaborate on that, johnx06:58
johnxah, I will read the fine article :)06:59
leif__couldn't it be as stripped down as ITOS, if not moreso?06:59
NaviDebian was designed to be able to run smoothly, even on ancient hardware06:59
johnxslashdot thing I guess06:59
Naviobviously, there are many things worked into the desktop Debian, but they can be stripped07:00
johnxit can be stripped down. We can do docpurge, but no matter what all the binary packages are going to be pretty big and configured with "everything including the kitchen sink"07:00
NaviBut why use the binary packages? It's always more sane to gear software torwards your target platform.07:01
johnxso, repackage everything you ever want to use?07:02
johnxuhm...if that's what you're prepared to do, you're better off with Nokia's ITOS07:02
leif__johnx, http://www.joachim-breitner.de/blog/archives/282-Ways-to-fork-privately.html07:03
NaviI repackage plenty of things I use07:03
Naviand those repackagers can maintain a repository for others to use07:03
GeneralAntillesYes, but you're a crazy person. :P07:03
NaviI'm not crazy, you are. :P07:04
leif__Navi, the two tough things then are (a) staying up to date, and (b) being compatible with the rest of Debian07:04
johnxyeah, let's splinter debian into a million little semi-incompatible repositories07:04
johnxand we can call it ... maemo!07:04
GeneralAntillesHa07:04
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NaviIf we were to do that, then I would certainly call it f0rqu3.07:05
johnxwell everyone can name their own fork whatever they want. that's the best part!07:05
GeneralAntillesThen we'll have Fork Wars!07:06
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leif__Navi, do you have an automated process to build new upstream releases of things you repackage using your own patches (as that blog post I linked is talking about)?07:06
GeneralAntillesLike little warlords over our own little pieces of nothing.07:06
johnxand we can end up the same as the zaurus community!07:06
johnxwoo!07:06
* GeneralAntilles Fork Wars Navi.07:06
NaviBoth A and B are satisfiable with a system of maintainers and developers07:06
Navias a true fork should have07:07
leif__riight07:07
Navileif__, yes, I have an automatic process.07:07
leif__just add free labor ;)07:07
* GeneralAntilles enslaves leif__.07:07
leif__what does it entail?07:07
leif__(to Navi, not GeneralAntilles!)07:07
GeneralAntillesYou work, work a lot. For free.07:07
Naviyaourt -Syu --aur07:07
* johnx really doesn't want to start a whole new distro...07:07
* leif__ reads more about ArchLinux...07:08
johnxthings that I've seen work: 1) hardware support packages for debian -and- 2) getting a supported machine profile in OE for angstrom07:08
* johnx reads about arch as well...07:08
NaviOf course, it's really not always automatic and entails editing pkgver= in a build script07:09
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Navithen building and install it07:09
johnx2 you mean?07:09
Navi2?07:09
leif__oh, well that ruins it!07:10
johnxediting pkgver in a build script in OE or Debian? eh?07:10
Navibuild script in Arch07:10
johnxah07:10
leif__assuming the patches apply correctly, it should be as simple as apt-get upgrade, imho :)07:10
NaviThey're just bash scripts, not complicated deb build scripts07:10
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* johnx will try arch another day, likely on his guinea pig laptop07:11
NaviMore than a fair trade to keep up-to-date on a binary distro07:12
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johnxI realized that I don't care all that much about whether 90% of my packages are up to date07:12
johnxand thankfully the API-breakage rate isn't as high as it was 10 years ago...07:13
Naviunless we're talking webkit07:13
johnxright, that falls into the 10%07:13
johnxand I build it out of git07:13
NaviAPI-breakage out of the ass07:13
johnxbut all it's support libraries don't need to be built from source07:13
johnxI can use the ones in gutsy without issues07:14
NaviThere are specific things I want to keep up with, even past the most recent stable release07:14
johnxme too, and I've found a debuntu distro to be good enough almost all the time07:15
johnxto each his own I think...07:16
NaviFirefox, mplayer, ffmpeg, mpd, abiword are all built on my PC07:16
tuxthepenguinanyone here use sqlite3 under maemo SDK bora? I'm seeing some annoying problems - 1) under ARMEL scratchbox - can create DB but then when you .exit or .quit and re-launch with the same db filename - it seems to have forgotten the schema and db contents07:16
johnxNavi, those days are over for me07:17
Navievery svn revision for mplayer, ffmpeg, and mpd. Every nightly for Firefox307:17
tuxthepenguinperhaps some sort of byte ordering issue??07:17
NaviEvery unstable snap for Abiword07:17
johnxNavi, ask me how fun building gnome 0.54 on a K62 was...07:17
NaviBet it was very fun07:18
tuxthepenguin2) also, the file produced inside scratchbox appears to be readable outside07:18
tuxthepenguinof scratchbox...strange indeed. it does seem readable via the07:18
tuxthepenguinpython2.5 sqlite3 module under scratchbox. BUT inserts are being ignored when done via python2.507:18
NaviThankfully, I don't have to build everything myself a la Gentoo.07:19
tuxthepenguinThe sqlite docs mention that it will not work if forked - perhaps the qemu code at work behind the scenes is doing a fork?? Anyone have any ideas?07:20
johnxat one point in time I had a redhat 5.1 system that was about 80% the result of compiling from source with no package management07:20
leif__Navi, so the process is that you edit the version numbers in some bash scripts, and then run one command?07:20
leif__seems like the updating of version numbers could be automated too somehow...07:20
Navicorrect, for the most part.07:21
Navimore bash scripts07:21
GeneralAntillesHa07:21
GeneralAntillesOr fed as arguments at least.07:21
Navibash scripts to automate the editing of bash scripts07:21
johnxthen we just automate the process of updating so it happens automatically every so often...with bash scripts!07:21
Navihttp://aur.archlinux.org/packages/midori-git/midori-git/PKGBUILD07:22
Navipfft07:22
Navicron, foo07:22
Navino need to overload the bash scripts07:22
GeneralAntillesfractal bash scripts07:22
johnxwho needs cron, when we have bash scripts!07:22
johnx"bash scripts all the way down"07:22
GeneralAntillesCan you imagine a beowulf cluster of . . . bash scripts@07:22
* leif__ can07:23
NaviI can imagine a GeneralAntilles made out of post-it notes.07:24
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GeneralAntilleshttp://www.impawards.com/1999/posters/office_space.jpg ?07:25
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Nickel_hello07:25
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NaviHeh, the NIT would replace so much of my phone's functionality07:25
johnxhi, Nickel_07:25
NaviNickel_, hi07:25
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Nickel_trying to get n800 to stream as a webcam, can't find package gstreamer0.10-3gp-osso07:26
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Nickel_anyone tried to do video streaming?07:27
johnxI thought someone was doing it with vlc a while back07:27
pupnikyes there are a couple of projects07:28
pupnikfor one of them we're kind-of waiting for vlc 0.9 to be released07:28
Nickel_i see07:28
pupniki think there's a mythtv frontend, a 'mediaserver', and an 'orb' client also07:29
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pupnikoh i missed your prior post07:30
NaviNamely: Email, IRC, Email, Putty, Email, Media Playing, Email, dictionary, Email07:30
pupnikdon't know about webcam - let me know if you find something07:30
Nickel_http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howtostreamvideo/07:31
Nickel_This I have been trying to follow, but I can't seem to get all of the packages07:31
Nickel_the gst-launch actually doesn't crash, but it gives a warning about Glib threading...'the application needs to be fixed..."07:32
Nickel_and I haven't been able to open the stream from VLC (on windows)07:33
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pupnikcool, looking07:35
leif__Nickel_, http://web.media.mit.edu/~lifton/snippets/n800_to_sl/ ? (I haven't tried it myself)07:35
tank-mani cant seem to stream from my mythtv setup07:35
tank-manthe server shows up in the file manager, but the videos can't be played in the default media player on os200807:36
Nickel_leif__: yes, that one is almost the same how-to07:36
leif__sorry.07:36
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pupnikhrm not gonna do it.. too much headache for no real purpose07:40
pupnikis the n810 stylus the same as the n800 stylus?07:41
leif__no07:42
pupnikk07:43
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LoCusFI would seriously like a thicker stylus but N810 is still usable07:49
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NaviIt beats the DS stylus, I would think.08:06
GeneralAntillesYou wouldn't know.08:06
GeneralAntillesYou're not part of the club08:06
* GeneralAntilles ostracizes Navi.08:06
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NaviThe DS stylus cramps my finger.  My little brother, being the creative scamp he is, made a pen stylus08:07
Navis/finger./fingers./08:07
infobotNavi meant: The DS stylus cramps my fingers.  My little brother, being the creative scamp he is, made a pen stylus08:07
NaviDon't ostracize me. I want to be in the cool club!08:07
Proteousthe cool club is full of losers08:08
zoranone person cannot do taht, Navi08:08
zoranit is a matter of comunity behaveour08:08
Proteouslosers!!!!08:08
Proteousthat'll show them08:08
zoranfolks, what is the mp3 player you concider the best, having connection to linux/bsd box in mind?08:09
Navimpd08:09
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johnxbest mp3 player for tablet? or desktop Linux?08:11
zorandevice, johnx08:11
zoranlike ipod or alike08:11
Navimpd for either08:12
NaviCanola2 looks nice though08:12
GeneralAntillesDevice, Navi.08:12
GeneralAntillesN800? :P08:12
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NaviDevice? My phone.08:12
zoranipod nano is about $200!08:12
johnxzoran, I use an N800 for mp3s :)08:12
zoranNavi, may I get your phone, please?08:12
NaviNo.08:12
rm_youn800 was at $179 a few days ago :/08:13
johnxtwo SD card slots, can sync via rsync08:13
rm_youit sold out QUICK08:13
* GeneralAntilles got in on that sale.08:13
rm_youoh? :P08:13
zoranmy 770 is too big to walk with me all day08:13
rm_youyou bought another?08:13
johnxneed bigger pockets :)08:13
GeneralAntillesMight gift it to my sister.08:13
rm_youah :P08:13
rm_youneat08:13
GeneralAntillesOr it might just stay here.08:14
GeneralAntillesHaven't decided.08:14
Navi:P08:14
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zorandudes in buses have some strange white apples, looking realy fine08:14
Lynouremaybe Fuji apples...08:14
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zorancopying files to it could be a headache08:14
zoranor greenapples  :)08:15
NaviThe Clix would be my second choice of device08:15
zoranhm, those sensa models look all the same; cannot find the diffs08:16
johnxit's pretty hard for an mp3 player to be *different* these days08:17
zoranyeah08:17
zoranI have fine cd player and like it much08:17
johnxsome flash, a codec, a small screen, a crappy plastic case, and the big difference is marketing08:17
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zoranconnecting to bsd box is my problem08:18
VonGuardho08:18
VonGuardbig room08:18
zoranti should be seen as usb device08:18
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johnxsome sandisk ones do that, and even some sony stuff does now...08:19
johnxhi VonGuard :)08:19
zoranjonhx, yeah, you could be write08:19
zoranoh, right!08:20
VonGuardhi johnx08:20
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VonGuardyou all worried about the Troll Tech purchase?08:22
johnxworried? not really08:22
johnxdefinitely interested to see where it takes things08:23
zorantrolls should worry08:23
VonGuardhehe08:23
johnxmight mean some shakeup for symbian, but I think on maemo the most we'll see is that addition of Qt as a development option08:24
zoranand nokia if openmoko comes to public in neat way08:24
VonGuardhttp://blog.gism.net/2008/01/28/nokia-trolltech-tablet-redux/08:24
johnxreally, the more toolkit the support, the better in my book08:24
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johnxI'll be most interested in where it leaves motorola...08:25
johnxand their linux phones08:25
VonGuardyeah08:25
VonGuardthey'll all be in a good position when google and android make all this shit irrelevent08:25
johnxyeah...unless they drop out of the handset business08:26
johnxdoes moto have an android phone in the pipeline?08:26
VonGuarddunno08:26
zoranhandset looks like next all round device for everyone08:26
VonGuardi bet the support tyhe standard08:26
VonGuardyep08:26
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johnxzoran, definitely. that's why google is smart to aim their requirements low :)08:27
pupnik_why do so many people assume google will be successful with android?08:27
zoranfic has some new phone, freerunner08:27
johnxbecause of low system requirements, smart phone functionality and lots of support08:27
johnxas long as google doesn't completely screw it up, I think they'll be successful in the long run08:28
zoranfic has gps to have tips, when you come near shop, post office etc08:28
johnxI'll reserver judgement on openmoko until I see the released version08:28
zoranreally changes the way peole use it08:29
zoranjohnx, correct08:29
zoranit lasts too long to see it as a product08:29
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puikahttp://lostworlds.lv/go.php?113963749308:33
johnxpuika, is this related to maemo?08:34
VonGuardno08:36
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zoranhm, what a mess about free music downloadable over the net!08:40
johnxzoran, hmm? you mean p2p?08:41
zoranslashdot pointed to some not really fnctional sites08:41
zoranyeah08:41
zorannot my kind of protocol08:41
zoranand some software should be installed08:41
zoranmusicians and bands get a money from concerts this days, not cd-s08:42
zoranthat could be a way to open all songs for download free08:43
GeneralAntillesJust like it used to be.08:43
zoranyeah08:43
zoranliek in old greek times08:43
GeneralAntillesNo, like, 100 years ago.08:43
zoranyes, jazz bands play for free on the radio08:44
zoranand you go to the dancing room for a fun08:44
johnxthankfully at least amazon seems to have rallied some support for "no DRM" music downloads08:44
Nickel_thar's a man at the radio station'll pay you to sing into a can08:44
GeneralAntillesRadio and jazz wasn't 190808:45
zoranwhen I found it possible to be true, I started looking for decent mp3 player08:45
rm_youGeneralAntilles: damn, I've been defeated again... >_> it's not looking good for LCARS icons till MAYBE tomorrow afternoon <_<08:45
* GeneralAntilles sets more traps for rm_you.08:45
rm_youGeneralAntilles: women are troublesome >_>08:45
GeneralAntillesBut the troubles come with benefits.08:45
* GeneralAntilles turns Nickel_ into a frog.08:46
* rm_you sleeps08:46
johnx'night rm_you08:47
rm_younight john08:47
rm_youremind me to fill you in later :P08:47
johnxok :)08:47
pupnik_aha i can echo 4 > /proc/cpu/alignment manually right when i get to the error i care about...08:48
zoranon one mailing list I found thta ipod nano was seen as umass device!08:50
zoranfreebsd from january08:51
pupnik_it is08:51
pupnik_but you can't copy music to it and have the ipod nano detect and play it08:51
zoranmsdosfs?08:51
zoransome kind of registration?08:52
pupnik_it uses an internal database and needs a program to write that correctly when adding music08:53
pupnik_there's a gtk program that does this, but it never worked for me08:53
pupnik_just don't buy an ipod08:53
zoranit is damn expensive, I won't08:53
zoransandisk looks fine, sensa one08:54
zoranon the net, I mean08:54
johnxmy wife has an e260 (I think that one). the ui is ok, nothing special08:55
zoranusb as umass?08:55
johnxyeah, you can switch modes08:55
zoranand decent sound?08:55
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johnxI'm not really an audiophile and I don't have good headphones08:56
johnxplus, I don't use it much. she keeps it in her purse :)08:56
zoranlp's were the best08:56
zorannto so easy to take with you away of home08:56
* johnx is perfectly happy with mp3s over bluetooth headphones08:56
zorank, I will change myself08:56
zoranI just don't know the topic08:57
johnxah...the video support on it is *awful*08:57
johnxreally bad08:57
zorannot my point of interest08:57
johnxjust, pretend that's not even on the feature list08:57
zoranjust music08:57
johnxjust like the N800 camera :)08:57
Fang64lol08:58
Fang64two fails?08:58
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NaviThe video support is just there because it was convienant08:59
johnxit uses some weird encoding of mjpeg08:59
zorannever used pc for that08:59
johnxwith like mono sound08:59
johnxI'm not even kidding08:59
johnxlike, you'd be better humming to yourself while watching a flipbook...09:00
zoranif that sansa could send 128/256 k...09:00
NaviThe chipset they used supported it, so they stuck it in.09:00
NaviIt's not even worth bothering09:00
johnxNavi, they don't *use* the chipset for video09:00
NaviReally?09:00
johnxthe chip supports mp4 and they do mjpeg on the cpu09:00
Fang64I think the Pandora might be better at it when it comes out if your looking for that kind of functionaliy09:00
NaviThat's laughable.09:00
NaviPandora over the N800 :D09:01
Fang64at least for video09:01
zoranwalking the street watching the movie09:01
Fang64that OMAP looks better for video09:01
Fang64well in general for media like that and if your into the whole emulation thing09:01
Naviyou could go with a PSP if you're into video09:01
johnxah, the N800 is fine for video for my needs09:02
Fang64that too09:02
Fang64lol09:02
johnxthe sansa e2x0 is a joke though09:02
Navias far as videos are concerned, they are.09:02
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zoranjohnx, I'd use it just for mp309:02
johnxzoran, yeah, sorry, it's fine for music09:02
Fang64I haven't had too many problems with video, unless your talking about flash video from other sites, that's a horror show09:02
johnxseems to last forever on a charge too09:02
Fang64unless they finish loading x.x09:03
Fang64yah music is great09:03
Naviwe're talking about the e2x009:03
NaviSansa09:03
Fang64oh09:03
Fang64not the N80009:03
NaviThey came out with that new sansa09:03
Fang64ah, I own a sansa never used the video on it XD09:04
NaviI forget what they called it, not the crappy rhapsady one09:04
Fang64oh09:04
Fang64yah I ended up giving my to a family member to use09:04
Fang64after I got the N80009:04
Navithe wheel felt a bit better than the e2x0s09:04
Navibut it didn't light up09:04
johnxalso, the e2x0 was charge from usb only09:05
puikahttp://lostworlds.lv/go.php?113963749309:05
zoranI recall salesman talking about win program, needed for sansa to work09:05
zorannot what i found on the net09:05
NaviI wanted the Zen Vision for a while09:07
Navinot the crappy, ugly W09:07
johnxsalesmen lie09:07
Navithe nokia tablet sized one09:07
johnxsingle-purpose devices have never really interested me09:07
Navioh hei, the refined the look of the vision W09:08
zoranI like single purpose devices  :009:08
NaviAin't so bad anymore09:08
zorantooth brush09:08
zoranhair comb09:08
NaviToothbrush/toilet scrubber09:08
Navihair comb/fur groomer09:08
zoranyeah, multi purpose brush09:08
johnxI guess I should say, I'm don't find single purpose devices *exciting*09:08
NaviJack of all trades...09:08
johnxmaster of some09:09
zoranslave to none09:09
NaviOf course, I'm not an audiophile, I'm not picky on video as long as it doesn't suck balls09:09
zoranI'm picky on audio09:09
johnxbut does others adequetely thus requiring me to carry/charge fewer devices...09:09
zorando not care about video at all09:09
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johnxsemi-picky on video09:09
NaviI like my websurfing not on tiny windows09:09
Navis/windows/screens09:10
zoranhm, 1024x768 is something I would just like for graphical net09:10
* johnx will websurf on whatever's at hand...09:10
zoranconsole is fine on whatever09:10
NaviI'm known to ssh with my e7009:11
zoran770 is fine too for that09:11
Navithat tiny screen makes your eyes tired09:11
zorananticipation is the king09:11
johnxzaurus 5500 was actually a pretty good portable ssh term09:11
NaviI really want to try paintnet09:12
zoran770 is fine for ssh, except for sylusing09:12
zoran*stylusing09:12
zoranso, n810 _must_ be better for that09:12
johnxNavi, paint.net?09:13
zoransansa seems to has some preconfigured directories, audible, config, one dnc...09:13
zoransome of them have card slot to extend memory09:15
Navis/paintnet/mypaint09:15
Navittp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1607909:15
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zoranhm, copying files seems enough, but sansa obviously makes some hash to use id3 tags09:18
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zoranI'm not sure what playlists are, but they should not be copied09:19
Navimypaint looks sexy09:20
Navianyways, I'm off to bed09:20
Navig'night09:20
zorannavy should never sleep09:21
zoranbtw, dit to copy files is something like " ./MUSIC "09:21
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pupnik_achchha... constant underruns09:31
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Stskeepsjku: www.citeulike.org/user/cvm is a good start - especially the taxonomy paper09:33
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Stskeepsjku: and after march we'll have one out that covers the issue of different radios causing fingerprint methods to perform worse09:35
jkuStskeeps, thanks09:36
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pupnik_-Wcast-align09:42
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doc|homepupnik_: thanks for that (it not being the same)09:50
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puikahttp://lostworlds.lv/go.php?113963749309:51
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doc|homespam ^09:52
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icepolarpolarHi I am new in Maemo development and trying to build a security application in Maemo Chinook ..09:55
icepolarpolarMay I ask why Chinook do not come with osso-gnupg anymore? Basically I would need to access09:55
icepolarpolarthe keyring and I would be using openssl too.09:55
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pupnik_icepolarpolar: i see osso-gnupg in my repositories09:56
pupnik_http://gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo409:57
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icepolarpolarpupnik: thanks .. in this page it says osso-gnupg has been removed from chinook10:05
icepolarpolarhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/unstable/4.0beta/content-comparison-3.2-to-4.0beta.html10:05
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icepolarpolarhope to know the reason and would there is some new replacement for that package10:06
icepolarpolarby the way, i am referring to my scratchbox10:07
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jkuicepolarpolar, you're looking at the page for  beta10:10
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jkuicepolarpolar,  http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/4.0/4.0b_vs_4.0_content_comparison.html says osso-gnupg source should be available10:10
jkunot seeing the actual package though10:11
* leif__ just checked10:11
jkuyeah, source is available10:12
leif__osso-gnupg is 1.4.2-7 on the device and in the maemo4.0 source repo, but no binary package is available10:12
icepolarpolarthanks ppl .. so i can expect osso-gnupg to be continue to be available in the tablets right?10:14
icepolarpolarand I should compile the source for scratchbox development10:14
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icepolarpolarwould there be any replacement package for osso-gnupg in the short future?10:16
jkuicepolarpolar,  N doesn't talk about the future much, but I'd guess you can rely on on gpg to be there...10:18
jkucertainly for OS2008 lifetime10:18
icepolarpolarok thanks a lot ppl :)10:19
johnxI agree with jku. It definitely looks like a lot of important stuff depends on it10:20
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hrwmorning10:29
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johnx'mornin'10:29
icepolarpolarpaivaa10:31
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pupnik_anybody feel like fixing up sound code for an emulator? :)10:37
guardianmorning10:37
pupnik_moohoo10:38
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JaffaMorning, all10:40
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hahloofftopic, does anyone know how grub see optic drives like /dev/hdc ?10:46
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johnxhahlo, I don't think it *does* see them10:48
johnxwere you looking to add a 'boot to cd' entry to your grub boot screen?10:48
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hahlojohnx: no i have problem to find /dev/hda in grub10:49
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johnxah10:50
hahlojohnx: /dev/sda is hd010:50
johnxand /dev/hda doesn't get an (hdx) listing in grub?10:51
Jaffajohnx: grub tends to use hd(0,0) syntax10:51
johnxoops, forgot the syntax...10:51
johnxbut it doesn't get a grub-style entry in grub?10:52
JaffaYou should be able to tab-complete and see what grub can see10:52
johnxalso, grub syntax is (hd0,1). we were both wrong...10:52
hahlohow i ask grub to list all devices?10:52
Jaffajohnx: I thought it might be - I can never rememeber ;-)10:53
hahlogot two ata disks and 8 sata-disks10:53
johnxO_o10:53
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johnxhahlo, type:10:55
johnxfind (hd10:55
johnxthen hit tab10:55
tama^2hi10:55
johnxhi10:56
hahlojohnx: ok thanks10:56
keesjHi10:56
Cptnodegardi want to kill whoever put that sticker there on the igo kb -.-10:57
pupnik_Binary + Sources of a very fast Apple ][ emulator now online.  Consumes very little CPU, works like a charm except for sound buffer issues (fixable).  http://pupnik.de/maemoapple.tgz  Based off linapple / applewin sources.10:59
inzYou should start making debs11:00
pupnik_So... you fix the sound and I'll make the deb?11:02
inzNah ;)11:02
pupnik_You might enjoy seeing this one run... while playing Karateka it was only using 5-10% cpu...11:03
johnxthat's pretty cool11:03
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_collin_hi11:26
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:55
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hrw~seen jott12:10
infobotjott <n=j@unaffiliated/jott> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 8h 20m 41s ago, saying: 'yes.. the white line is still there (on the first slide and on the 3rd/digital clock slide)'.12:10
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hrwis it possible to restart X11 on os2008 without restarting whole device?12:50
JaffaIf you killed the watchdog, probably.12:50
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zuhI think shutting down any UI bits first and then X through the /etc/osso-af-init and /etc/init.d scripts should work12:56
zuhEven with the watchdog12:56
zuhBut I haven't actually tested it that far so YMMV12:56
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lardmanAnyone in the UK on here?13:02
lardmanBest place to buy microSD for the n810?13:03
hrwmicrosd? not minisd?13:04
hrwbut right - microsd are more popular13:04
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wwpw/ adapter ;)13:04
hrw~curse nokia for keyboard handling13:04
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia for keyboard handling !13:04
hrwusual curse ;D13:04
lardmanI think it only takes microsd13:06
Jaffalardman: I got mine from mobymemory.com IIRC13:06
lardmanI tried to fit a mini mmc yesterday and it wouldn't go in13:06
lardmanJaffa: yeah, I'm looking at that now; need it tomorrow though13:07
lardmanneed to check if they do next day13:07
Jaffalardman: yeah, jut checked: mobymemory.co.uk13:07
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lardmanhmm, doesn't look like that does Saturday delivery13:10
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tony2001it's really annoying that packages get updated, but -dev packages are still of the old version13:16
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hrwtony2001: I would say 'welcome in maemo world' but today is Friday so I will not be so cruel13:29
Robot101s/in/to/ :P13:30
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b0unc3good morning13:35
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trickiekeesj: nice that your lightning talk got it!13:38
trickielooking forward to it13:38
trickiein!13:38
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hrwguys: can maemomapper autosave tracks?13:50
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tank-manbetween sessions, yes13:52
hrwhow to set it to do it?13:53
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tank-manhrw, by default it does that i think14:27
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smilingManhi all14:53
Takgood morning smilingMan14:54
smilingManI want some advice from ppl which have a handheld for some time14:54
smilingMando you use the same google talk account on the pc and the handheld?14:54
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smilingMando you have them both connected at the same time under the same account 24/7?14:55
smilingManneed I apply a script to kill my IM client at the pc when I am connected via the handheld?14:56
TakI don't do much with gtalk on the device14:56
smilingManhrw: hi14:56
smilingManTak: oh I see14:56
Takbut I've had it logged in at several different PCs, and it seems to handle it ok14:56
jkusmilingMan, they can be both on14:56
smilingManhi jku, would msgs be sent to the two devices ALWAYS?14:57
jkuyou can define different  "profiles" (wait I'll dig the real name of that feature)14:57
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smilingManwhen I leave  the pc , I may leave the IM on, then when ppl see me on, they may msg me, while I am away14:57
Takiirc the first message is sent to all devices, and if you respond on one, the remainder of that conversation is directed to that one only14:58
jkusmilingMan, Resources. So your tablet might have resource "mobile" and your desktop resource "home"14:59
smilingMannow, If I use a second account, when it comes on , ppl may now I am not avail on my previous account14:59
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hrwI do not use google talk at all14:59
hrwI use normal jabber ;D14:59
jkuhrw it's just xmpp14:59
hrwjku: I know14:59
smilingManhi hrw, fine, what do you use to have both clients on?14:59
hrwsmilingMan: different resources15:00
smilingManwhere can I define these resources? in the client?15:00
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smilingManpls tell me where to define the "resource" in the handheld15:00
jkusmilingMan, unorftunately xmpp resource prioirities are not widely usedin clients so messages sometimes end up in wrong places...15:01
jkusmilingMan, see the advanced settings in IM client15:01
Takcrap - "grep: /usr/lib/libXext.la: No such file or directory"15:01
* Tak not sure whether to hate libtool or maemo15:02
jkusmilingMan, remember to set "away when idle" that helps to get messages to (mostly) the right place15:02
smilingManoh I do have "resource" in my kopete15:03
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smilingManok, so my freinds - use he same handle - but the clients figures what resource to use?15:03
jkusmilingMan, if message is sent  without specified resource (the normal situation) the server decides which resources it will send the message15:05
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jkuit should do it based on resource priorities, but like I said client support is not too good15:05
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smilingMancan I name the resource in my maemo client?15:05
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jkusmilingMan, yeah in some advanced account settings15:06
smilingManno priority setting15:07
smilingManfine thanks15:08
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jotthello15:44
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TobotrasWhat to read to get a quick intro to programming in maemo? Maemo-specific, I mean.15:45
jkuTobotras: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/Quick%20Start%20Guide/15:46
Tobotrasjku: thanks15:46
jkuthat is linked on the main documentation pag, by the way15:46
jkupage, even15:47
Tobotras:)15:47
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Tak./maemo_example: Segmentation fault15:50
* Tak cries15:50
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jottthere is no plain, "continuous" slider in hildon? the gtkhscale looks alienated and the hildoncontrolbar is ridiculously slow with increasing range...16:01
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Takcontinuous?16:02
jottthe hildoncontrolbar uses this "discrete" blocks16:02
Takwhat about HildonSeekbar ‽16:02
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jottthat looks wrong.. as i have to set the fraction to maximum and then it's all "blue"16:03
jott(as position <= fraction)16:03
jottthe only thing that looks quite good is the volume slider but that has the mute toggle..16:04
* Tak shrugs16:04
Jaffajott: presumably you want something like the volu... yeah16:04
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Takcustom widget? ;-)16:04
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jotti suppose.. man gtk sucks :P16:05
Takno, gtk is awesome16:05
jottno way ;)16:05
Jaffajott: check on maemo-developers16:05
Takblame hildon/maemo/nokia for making it look and act like crap on the device :-P16:05
JaffaIn fact, rm_you's enhanced backlight control has one just like that (from the screenshots)16:05
jottit's the hildoncontrolbar and it's slow :/16:06
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LastLemminghello16:31
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* jackster is gassuming over this lcars padd theme16:56
Navi_Ha16:57
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solmumahawhere do i uncheck make accidental doubleclicks?16:58
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hrwjott: hi17:05
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jotthrw: hello17:05
hrwjott: do you have working ISO_Level5_Shift keymap?17:05
jottyes, i suppose17:06
hrwjott: I tried to make <COMP> ISO_Level5_Shift but it then works like there is no key (added it as modifier)17:06
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jottfor some reason you also need to define "modifier_map Mod3 { ISO_Level5_Shift };"17:07
jottto make the key work..17:07
hrwjott: http://pastebin.ca/90506517:07
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jotthm17:07
jottand Chr does not activate Level5 for you?17:08
jott(for the EIGHT_LEVELs)17:08
hrwnot at all17:08
hrwxev recognize it as Meta_R17:09
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jottfwiw i defined the key and modifier_map in "base".. don't know if this changes anything17:09
jottxev shows state 0x20, keycode 135 (keysym 0xfe11, ISO_Level5_Shift), same_screen YES,...17:10
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leo2007``what would the next version of n series look like17:11
hrwjott: I want to not touch original keymaps17:11
jotti see.. but still might be worth a try to narrow it down17:12
hrwjott: it has to be normal package not hack ;)17:12
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hrwyep17:13
hrwleo2007``: will have foldable 1680x1050 7" screen, dual ARM Cortex and 4D acceleration17:13
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jottand it can make coffee17:13
Navi_sexy17:13
hrwwimax, wimin, wifi, redtooth, bluetooth and 24 days on one charge17:14
jottoh and it will be based on windows mobile 7 :P17:14
hrwjott: no - linux + qt (now when nokia owns trolltech)...17:14
jotthehe i would be fine with that ;)17:15
Navi_Pfft, my device has all that and it's based on Windows Mobile Vista, which makes it better.17:15
zoranwith patch for mind supression?17:16
Navi_yes17:17
jkuzoran, I believe distributing a reality distortion field with home electronics is patented, but maybe this is different...17:17
zoranthis sp11143 will erase all same minds and set defaults17:18
zoran*sane17:18
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jotthrw: mh i moved the definition and mapping up to my local keymap and it still works..17:21
* jott rereads the hrws pastebin17:21
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jottyou are aware that the order is: "None, Shift, LevelThree, Shift+LevelThree, LevelFive, Shift+LevelFive, LevelThree+LevelFive, Shift+LevelThree+LevelFive"17:23
jott?!17:23
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hrwyes17:23
hrwjott: I will do more testing during weekend - now I have to go17:24
jotthmm i c&p'd your stuff17:24
jott~ $ setxkbmap -symbols "nokia_vndr/rx-44(pl)"17:25
jottError loading new keyboard description17:25
jotthmm17:25
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hrwwill test later17:25
hrwbye17:25
jottbye17:25
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jottthis setxkbmap could be more verbose :/17:26
jottincreases -v17:26
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jotthrw|gone: ok found your error - AC01 misses a comma between "exclam exclam"17:38
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pupnikhere is a nice puzzle for jott? :/ :)  Apple ][ emulator - almost working great  http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=142736#post14273617:51
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jott:)17:52
BReady6433hello :)17:52
pupnikhi17:53
BReady6433how ya doing pupnik?17:54
* pupnik checks mood ring17:55
zorankernel mode reading?17:56
pupnikpodnering why openal is not working17:58
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BReady6433cool18:05
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lardmanbye all, see you in 3 weeks18:20
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BReady6433hey my email is sitting there trying to send and wont time out i tried to find the process to kill with ps but dont know which process to kill18:23
BReady6433dang it nm didn't mean to send that i found it18:24
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JaffaBReady6433: osso-email if it's the built-in client18:39
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jacksteranyone else experienced a problem with itos2008's mail program and gmail imap?18:42
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Jaffajackster: no-one uses the built-in mail program as it's a pile of crap, and has been since OS2005.18:42
jacksteri click on an email and it just sticks saying 'retrieving'18:42
||cwJaffa: don't hold back, tell us how you really feel :D18:43
jacksterah, well that's good to know, any alternatives?18:43
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Jaffajackster: http://modest.garage.maemo.org18:43
jacksterthanks18:43
Jaffa||cw: the fact it's still there, and modest is still beta - after 3 years - pisses me off when I think about it18:44
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||cwclaws any good?18:45
JaffaNot a good mobile UI, IMHO18:45
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||cwstill using 06 on a 770, looks like modest is no option for me :/18:46
Jaffadoh18:46
JaffaThere's a 2008 HE now, I read.18:46
Takmoo?!18:46
||cwunstable it says, and not likely to become stable from the sound of it18:46
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JaffaThey've said that about every HE, AIUI?18:47
JaffaAh, but it does sound very broken.18:47
TakJaffa: where did you read this?18:48
pupnikfirst reports claim it works pretty well18:48
BReady6433well it was my fault because gmail uses ssl.. but it should have timed out or something!18:48
Jaffahttp://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/internet_tablet_hacker_edition_pushed_at_chinook_level.html18:48
Jaffa^Tak18:48
Takkiller, thanks18:48
Tak"Hardware limitations are clear in certain circumstances, extra swap memory is required to get a decent performance, the device reboots from time to time..."18:49
Takthat was already true of 2007HE and 200618:49
pupnik:)18:49
JaffaX-Fade: fancy making http://maemo.org/news/announcements/rss.xml syndicated on p.m.o?18:49
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pupnikTak did you see this? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1666218:54
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Takpupnik: very cool18:55
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BReady6433any one know if 2008os make finger scrolling a little easier on apps like the web browser?18:57
zuhCompared to what?18:58
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BReady6433i just noticed that the reason why scrolling is so hard on opera is because i am not using the stylus.. heh18:58
BReady6433compared to os200718:59
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zuhWell at some point it was ok. Then they made it "easier" to select text and scrolling became very error prone (ie. half of the time you end up selecting text). I'm not sure if it was the 2007->2008 transfer or what. Though I guess it was beta versus final 2008, since it was microb in both cases...19:01
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zuhBut I think some of the problem is just that the touchscreen is a bit flakey19:02
* Jaffa is still looking for his perfect device :-/19:02
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JaffaN810 is closest, but if only it had the polish and attention to detail of an iPhone. You'll just not get that from a big diverse company like Nokia, though19:03
BReady6433okay what you mean by error prone would it crash the app? or you mean text would be selected instead of a link ?19:04
zuhText selected instead of scrolling. Touching links is near-impossible even with the stulys ;)19:04
mgedminI manage with my thumbs somehow19:05
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mgedminbut it does appear that microb in os2008 is buggy and often selects text instead of scrolling19:05
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mgedminor sometimes it's just too slow to start scrolling19:05
BReady6433if the n800 had open authentication with wep and a hair smaller size it would be perfect to me..19:06
pupnikkarateka is so awesome :)19:06
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zuhI poke at the link. It gets a mouseover hilight. I poke it again, it gets the blue focus rectangle. I poke third time, almost ramming the stylys through the screen and *then* microb goes "oh, you meant _activate_ the link..."19:07
Takif it gets focus, just push the enter button ;-)19:07
mgedminright, that's what I do ;)19:08
BReady6433hah yeah i have to click the link a hundred times to get it to work19:08
zuhTak: I already poked it twice by then, you'd think once would suffice :)19:08
mgedminstrange random bug: once I managet to get a popup menu on a link, and it had "open link" but not "open link in new window"19:08
mgedminusually I find both items in the menu19:08
mgedminif I knew how to reproduce, I'd create a bug report19:09
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zuhmgedmin: It depends on the link type, IIRC if it opens in a new window by default (ie. has target=foo) the menu doesn't show the new window option...19:09
mgedminaha!19:10
mgedmindarn19:10
mgedmina new window was exactly what I wanted :)19:10
zuhYeah, quite backwards isn't it :)19:11
zuhThe links that you are most likely to want in a new window are not showing the option...19:12
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_berto_solmumaha: you there ?19:14
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pupniki managed to discover that doubling the amount written by Speaker.cpp elinimates the frequent underruns19:33
pupnikbut this is not the correct solution19:34
Takno amount of buffering will suffice if the fill rate is consistently less than the play rate19:36
derfThat's not true.19:36
derf100% buffering will suffice.19:36
Takthat's true; however our devices don't have enough ram to 100% buffer an infinite stream19:37
derfCurses!19:37
Takmaybe the n900 ;-)19:37
NaviBy the time I find a job and get an n800, the n900 will be out :(19:40
* Navi goes back to reading the classifieds19:40
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pupnikTak it's a programmatic problem - the engine has self-adjusting bufferfilling code, which i haven't grokked yet19:44
pupnikthe emu is idling most of the time19:44
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pupnikkarateka has a beautiful phased/chorused pulse-wave monophonic software synth... such a shame to hear it go blrubrbuphthlbp19:46
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pope523Can someone answer a quick question about the N800's capabilities? I bought a 770 and found there's a couple of things it can't do that I need.20:07
Jaffae.g.?20:07
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pope523Mount Windows shares and play MP3 audio and Divx/xvid video from them, and PPTP VPN tunnelling.20:08
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pupnikcan someone advise/help linking to hardware floating point libm20:10
michele_gosh... this lenovo X300 is lovely20:12
mgedminpope523: what's the question?20:12
mgedminfwiw I'm sure it's possible to find 3rd party software that lets you mount windows shares and do pptp20:13
mgedminbut it won't be easy, I expect20:13
mgedmina n800 with os2008 can mount windows shares out of the box20:13
mgedminI haven't noticed any pptp20:13
Jaffapope523: OS 2008 allows mounting Window shares and accessing any file on them. DivX/Xvid playback has improved slightly, and mplayer keeps getting better but most video files probably best being transcoded20:13
mgedminvideo is still problematic20:13
JaffaPPTP VPN tunnelling is apparently possible (needs a new kernel) and although it'd be handy for me, I haven't tried20:14
pope523Ok, thanks20:14
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GeneralAntillesDidn't fanoush compile a kernel to support PPTP?20:16
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BReady6433i keep on getting errors for libc6.  i look in app manager and find no libc6 to dl.  which repo would that be in?20:18
BReady6433when i install diff apps i get that is20:19
darkipchecked in red pill mode?20:19
JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed20:21
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BReady6433no.. still missing lbc6.  thanks fpr the idea though20:27
BReady6433would it be inside a ;ib package found in app manager?20:28
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BReady6433so i did an apt-get install libc6.  it says i already have it!20:41
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BReady6433i enter matrix in website form in new app catalogue, hit cancel and select red pill.  thats all i have to do for red pill mode, correct?20:43
jkuBReady6433, what exactly is the erro you get?20:43
jkuBReady6433, it's really not possible to not have libc6 so that's not your problem20:45
BReady6433i must be doing redpill qrong..20:45
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BReady6433is there a way to check the version of libc6?20:56
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BReady6433sorry jku20:58
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jkuBReady6433, "apt-cache policy libc6"20:59
jkubut like I said that's not your problem20:59
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jkunot unless you've used considerable violence...21:00
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BReady6433lol ol21:00
BReady6433ok21:00
jkuso what was the original error message, and what were you doing?21:03
BReady6433ok21:03
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BReady6433i was trying to install the dtris .deb abd once i click install in app manager it tells me it couldnt install because some packages required are missing.21:06
BReady6433i checked details and it is the libc6 >= 2.5.0.121:07
BReady6433this is after i enabled redpill mode21:07
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jkuithat is not compatible with any ITOS I believe21:08
jkuthe newest OS has 2.5.0-1osso7 and AFAIK that is a smaller version number than  2.5.0.121:08
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BReady6433dang hit wrong x21:09
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Navixxxx21:13
BReady6433yyyyyy21:13
Navizzzzzzzz21:13
jkuBReady6433, if you're talking about ltris, then the dependency is to 2.5.0-1 which is fine on the newest OS21:14
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jkuBReady6433, which OS version are you running?21:14
BReady6433200721:14
jkuwell there's your problem no doubt, older libc21:15
jkuthat is a way to have an older libc...21:15
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BReady6433oh!21:16
BReady6433so maybe  i should upgrade..21:16
jkuBReady6433, yeah, I don'21:17
jkuI don't think much software will support 2007 in a while21:17
jkuanyway OS2008 is pretty good21:17
BReady6433ok.. is that what happened to 2006 and 2005 ?21:18
BReady6433ok i think i qill do that tonight21:19
jkuBReady6433, yeah, pretty much, 2006 is still the official OS for the 770 so that has some reason for existence, but OS2007... I think it will pretty much disappear21:20
BReady6433alright cool.21:21
BReady6433thanks for your help man21:21
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fugitivohello21:35
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suseJhello22:00
suseJwhat is the best package for getting root22:00
Takhello22:00
suseJ?22:00
suseJon os200822:00
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suseJwhat is the default root password on for os200822:02
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suseJcan i ad my user to the wheel group?22:02
jkususeJ, I just install openssh and "ssh root@localhost"22:02
* jott uses easyroot22:03
pupniksoftvfp uses hardfloat?22:03
pupniksorry i think i get it22:03
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pupnikthe -mfpu=vfp says 'use hardfloat' and the -mfloat-abi=softfp means be comatible with the softfloat libraries linked-in22:04
suseJwhat is the perfered ap for getting root on the os 2008?22:05
n800musicis there anyone working on a music sequencer?22:06
jottpupnik: yes, i think this is somehow correct (as in vfp instructions with compatible eabi)22:09
jottsuseJ: well there is "gainroot", "easyroot" and openssh and then ssh locally... (i prefer easyroot YMMV)22:10
pupnikn800music: not really.  i have found some that might be good candidates22:10
jottn800music: i have compiled schism tracker that works quite nice22:10
n800musicsweet!22:10
jotthydrogen works too, but is at the hardware limit22:10
suseJok22:11
suseJsounds good22:11
suseJeasy root it is22:11
suseJthanks for the advice22:11
n800musichow do i get that to work22:11
n800musicis it hard fir mediocre linuxer people22:11
n800musicerr you know what i mean22:12
suseJis there a working snes emulator for os2008?22:12
jottn800music: i've some packages for schismtracker.. hold on i can put them somewhere..22:12
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jotthttp://sse2.net/schism/ you have to install them with dpkg..22:17
jott(red pill should work too)22:17
jottn800music: ^^22:17
jottdo you know schism tracker?22:17
n800musicno but i know trackers22:17
n800musicbeen using buzz since 9822:17
jottok.. it's an clone of the oldschool impulse tracker22:17
n800musiccool22:17
jotthttp://sovietrussia.org/wiki/Schism_Tracker22:17
jottfor some infos :)22:17
jottsound quality is nice.. i played some xm and it files and they sound great imho ;)22:18
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jotti assume you have os2008, but the packages *should* work on 07 as it's basically just SDL.. if there are missing dependency i can put them on the site too22:19
n800musicawesoome, lemme try it22:20
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TommyAhi. got a strange problem with os 2006, python 2.4 and ukmp/uktube. ukmp does start and works well, uktube does not start and the main problem is that opera seems to be damage since installation as the url bar is hidden since then.22:21
pupniksuseJ: you can get about 12-18 fps with this one http://pupnik.de/snes9x.html22:21
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pupnikjott: coool :)22:22
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pupniksuseJ: but you have to fix the sound22:25
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jottn800music: erm only problem might be input without a keyboard :( .. there is no vkb and i've a n810 so no need for a vkb :/ ..22:27
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jottpupnik: a generic sdl vkb would be really great useful sometimes :)22:28
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jotts/t u/t and u/22:28
infobotjott meant: pupnik: a generic sdl vkb would be really great and useful sometimes :)22:28
TakI started porting my ruby one to vala22:28
n800musicjott i would get a bluetooth kb just for this22:29
TakI'm currently blocking on laziness/a better xml lib binding22:29
suseJnice22:29
pupniki would recommend bluetooth keyboard unconditionally22:29
suseJthanks pupnik22:29
suseJis there a working version of kismet for os200822:30
suseJi saw a few but they were not for os 200822:30
pupnikdon't think so22:31
n800musici can't install the one on the sse2 server22:31
jottn800music: what's the problem?22:32
n800musicsomething incompatible, one sec22:32
jottdo you have os08?22:33
suseJwhat is the best samba client that is avalible?22:33
n800musicyeah22:33
jottok.. it should definitely work somehow then ;)22:33
n800musicincompatible app package22:34
jotthmm ah yeah.. it's not maemo-rized22:34
jottthe "easiest" way is to install them via dpkg from xterm22:34
jott(so ssh root@n810  and then wget http://sse2.net/schism/libxxf86misc1_1.0.1-2_armel.deb  and wget http://sse2.net/schism/schism_0+20071208-1_armel.deb  and then dpkg -i libxxf86misc1_1.0.1-2_armel.deb schism_0+20071208-1_armel.deb ..22:35
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* jott should set the "right" section :/22:35
pupnikhttp://pastebin.ca/905501  hehehe dosbox 0.58 drawing much to the screen (oprofile)22:37
n800musichm i never logged into as root before22:39
n800musici just got mine a couple days ago22:40
jottn800music: oh :) .. just install openssh server via the app manager.. it will ask you for a password and start ssh then22:40
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n800musicstill around?22:54
jottyes22:54
n800musicinstalled ossh22:54
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n800musicmmm now what ;(22:54
jottcan you ssh into the device?22:55
n800musicssh root@n800 doesn'ted do anythung22:55
jottssh root@theipofyourn810 ;)22:56
jottare you on windows or *nix?22:56
n800musici'm on the n800 atm22:56
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jottah ok.. you can then ssh root@localhost  for now :)22:57
n800musichence my typing speed22:57
n800musicok22:57
jott(i just assumed that typing the long url is not very convinient when you are on your desktop :)22:58
n800musici'm in22:59
n800musici'm trying to/get used to.it22:59
jotthehe sure :)22:59
jottwget http://sse2.net/schism/libxxf86misc1_1.0.1-2_armel.deb && wget http://sse2.net/schism/schism_0+20071208-1_armel.deb && dpkg -i libxxf86misc1_1.0.1-2_armel.deb schism_0+20071208-1_armel.deb22:59
jott^^ copy and paste this ;)22:59
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keesjjott: as root I guess :023:04
jottyes.. ;) he has already done ssh root@.. ;)23:04
* jott should create an .install file ;)23:05
n800musici don'tknow how to copy in pidgin23:08
n800musici probably sound retarded.23:09
* jott never used pidgin.. maybe someone else can help .. but i would guess ctrl+c might work23:09
n800musicit's the interface, the touchscreen23:10
n800musicthrowing me off23:10
lcuk_3i bet there isnt a single person here who hasnt asked a seemingly silly question on irc before23:10
n800musici bet yiu're wrong23:11
n800musici hope23:11
n800musicok i get wget: not found23:12
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jottn800music: you can try this.. my first "install" http://sse2.net/schism/schism.install ;)23:12
jottseems to work here ;>23:12
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jottyieks.. wget is not install per default?23:13
jottthe install should be easier :)23:13
jott(the schism.install )23:13
n800musichow does this work?23:16
jottah mime type is also fixed ;)23:16
n800musicah23:16
jottyou should be able to just click on the link23:16
jottand then "Open" it with the application manager23:16
jottTools -> Clear -> Cache  in the MircoB browser .. :)23:17
n800musicworked23:17
n800musicty23:17
jottit's not finished yet i suppose :O23:17
jotthope all dependencies are in the repos ;)23:17
jotthm really straight forward this .install stuff as it seems23:18
pupnikyou must set the mimetype23:18
n800musicis the path ok?23:18
jottpupnik: yeah already done ;)23:19
n800musici got an error at the end about the path to the file seems23:19
jotthmm.. what exactly?23:19
n800musicone second23:20
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n800musicfailed catalog23:21
n800musicthe path/to the packages.gz is 40423:21
jotthu?23:22
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jotthmmm23:22
n800musichere's the path:23:22
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Tama^2Hello folks23:23
jotthello23:23
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n800musichttp://sse2.net/shism/dists/chinook/main/binary-armel/Packages.gz23:24
jottarg.. i messied a "c" somewhere.. why did it work for me :/23:25
n800musicno that's me23:25
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jottah.. ok23:25
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jottah ... i see.. still strange that it worked for me..23:25
jottjust a sec23:25
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* pupnik swaps his blunt dagger of dissecting and takes out the +4 cudgel of code removal to dosbox23:27
jottn800music: ok ..try again.. :)23:27
* jott did a stupid mistake23:28
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* jott casts the accelerate spell on pupnik23:29
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n800musicif ths works you should totally post it23:30
n800musicit'll spur some interest23:30
jottyeah.. i'll might have to fix the .desktop file first.. :)23:30
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pupnikerghafhaoshfaoshfaosh23:33
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n800musicinstalled!23:33
n800musicrunning23:33
jottah nice23:34
n800musickeymap is off so i can't do anything23:34
n800musicbut still kickass23:34
jottthe hardware buttons should work23:34
pupniktry xkbd and not fullscreen23:34
jottpress back for example23:34
jottthe fullscreen button should start playing23:35
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jottand zoom out stop ;)23:35
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jottstill you can download http://alanator.com/music/oldskool/2nd_pm.s3m for example and play it :)23:36
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Tama^2lol I remember that song23:36
* Tama^2 enter nostalgia mode23:37
Tama^2*enters23:37
pupnikgood sounds but very overused orchestra stab now :)23:40
pupnikoh it's from the unreal demo23:40
jottsecond reality :)23:40
n800musicsweet23:41
n800musici gotta split, thanks a mil23:41
pupnikthose guys were great - i think some of them went on to program Max Payne23:41
pupnikcheers n800music23:41
jottn800music: have fun :)23:41
jottand zoom out is start play :)23:41
jottok..23:41
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jotterm zoom in23:41
jottanyway :)23:41
* jott looks out for some other nice modules23:42
jotthehe maybe a bunch of chiptunes ;)23:43
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pupnikit has a .sid player?23:44
pupnikforbidden forest theme is nice23:44
jottuuuhm no but chiptunes can also be in .mod format ;)23:45
pupnikoh ok23:45
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jottso the <10kb ones or so.. dunno what the size limit was ..23:46
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pupnikinteresting idea.  using simple waveforms in mods and translating the control information to .mod format23:46
jotthttp://www.chiptunes.org/files/23:47
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jotti guess ~30k was the limit23:48
jottbut most are ~10k ;)23:48
* jott downloads the chiptunes-full archive ;)23:48
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