IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-01-19

desrt	N-eight-eleven!	00:00
jackster	thanks kulve	00:00
kulve	there has been talk about n8x0 with wimax but that's not a replacement	00:00
*** EruditeH1rmit has quit IRC		00:00
Cptnodegard	n810 is a n800 "upgrade" (downgrade is more correct but anyways) so its not impossible that they're releaseing a next gen table, but prob later this year if so	00:00
kulve	Cptnodegard: I see n810 as a upgrade to n800 :)	00:00
jackster	I just thought that since the N810 wasn't anything groundbreaking compared to the N800 maybe they would release the proper next generation at CeBIT	00:00
Cptnodegard	only an upgrade if you can stand 10GB only :p	00:01
*** birunko has quit IRC		00:01
*** cmarcelo has quit IRC		00:01
kulve	I can stand with 2+4	00:01
desrt	...or if you enjoy like, say, maybe, a KEYBOARD...	00:01
Cptnodegard	im working on getting 24 xD	00:01
kulve	I do enjoy that :)	00:01
*** andrunko has quit IRC		00:01
Cptnodegard	the n810 KB is too small to be usful IMO. only way i can type fast is a real KB	00:02
Cptnodegard	not worth the 2x price	00:02
desrt	ya. the price difference is seriously unjustified	00:02
desrt	it's maybe a $100 upgrade	00:02
jackster	so you guys think the N800 would be a better buy?	00:02
GEORGE_BG	Is there a way to boot direktly to KDE	00:03
desrt	jackster; if money is an issue, yes.. probably	00:03
Cptnodegard	i use my n800 at school, so i have a bag that will gladly fit a usb of bt keyboard anyways	00:03
GEORGE_BG	?	00:03
Cptnodegard	jackster, depends on your use...	00:03
*** vcgomes has quit IRC		00:03
Cptnodegard	jackster, if price and storage is most important, n800. if a KB or internal GPS is more important, n810	00:03
*** trevarthan has left #maemo		00:03
*** jeff1f has joined #maemo		00:04
Cptnodegard	n800 + bt kb + bt gps is more useful and stable (in case of the gps) than the 810, but more to drag around	00:04
jackster	Cptnodegard: really I'd quite like to use it to learn Python, play ScummVM and maybe use a bit of Google Docs; with a chance I may end up replacing my iPod with it	00:05
Cptnodegard	you should def replace your ipod as its a shit mp3 player, but n8x0 sound aweful with headphones	00:06
jackster	really?	00:06
Cptnodegard	yes	00:06
sp3000	which headphones?	00:06
* sp3000 hasn't really been paying attention to that though		00:06
Cptnodegard	some people like to believe different, but i a/b'ed it with my cowon u2 mp3 player and thats the last time i put headphones in the n800 xD	00:06
*** pupnik810 has joined #maemo		00:07
Cptnodegard	various ones, sennheiser px100, beyerdynamic dt231, grado ms1	00:07
*** unique311 has quit IRC		00:07
michele_	come on, the ipod is not awful	00:07
Cptnodegard	ok, so cowon has better sound than ipods and whatnot that people might use, but that doesnt mean the n800 sounds good	00:07
Cptnodegard	yes it is	00:07
pupnik	the fact that you can't copy files to ipod is awful	00:08
pupnik	*copy files and play them	00:08
GEORGE_BG	Can anybody to help me whay to install KDE to boot direktly from mmc baypass hildon desktop	00:08
*** hugolp has quit IRC		00:08
Cptnodegard	the n800's internal speaker is awesome though, compared to i.e the PSP's speaker	00:08
pupnik	GEORGE_BG: search internettablettalk.com for KDE	00:09
jackster	actually the main reason I've decided to go for a maemo tablet is after Jobs's Macworld keynote I'm just mega pissed off at how closed Apple's iPod Touch/iPhone is and I'd like somethign more open	00:09
Cptnodegard	you have a touch?	00:09
jackster	yep, one of the early ones with the bad quality screens	00:09
*** mankod has joined #maemo		00:09
GEORGE_BG	pupnik i want KDE to boot direktly	00:09
Cptnodegard	touch is a nice novelty.... but i really cant stand h264 as its shit slow to convert movies, the browser should be packed with the song "zoom zoom zoom"	00:10
jackster	lol	00:10
GEORGE_BG	there was a info how to boot from extra menu on hildon desktop	00:10
Cptnodegard	movie support is good on the n800, with mplayer. with transmission you can download movies directly, and even if its sluggish at times, playing it back without conversion is possible	00:11
Cptnodegard	when i say n800 i mean both devices of course as they are alike xD	00:11
jackster	ah yes one more question, how likely is it that the next version of ITOS will be released for the N800?	00:11
Cptnodegard	OS2008 is just out	00:11
Cptnodegard	so prob not until november :p	00:11
Cptnodegard	*december	00:12
jackster	Good to hear :D	00:12
Cptnodegard	my suggestion is go with a n8x0, then buy a small mp3 player on the side	00:12
jackster	cool, thanks Cptnodegard :-)	00:12
Cptnodegard	if youre not 100% set to carry as little as possible	00:12
Cptnodegard	np ^^	00:12
*** lsobral has quit IRC		00:13
*** hugolp has joined #maemo		00:13
jackster	I'm not too bothered about carrying loads, I have plenty of pockets :)	00:13
Cptnodegard	jackster, if youre in the US, n800 + iGo bt KB + 16GB SDHC + 1, 2 or 4GB sansa clip is a nice combo that will come out cheaper than the n810 by itself	00:14
pupnik	i like cheap mp3 players. one doesn't have to worry about them breaking	00:14
jackster	Cptnodegard: I'm in the UK, and what's a sansa clip?	00:14
Cptnodegard	240+75+50+30-60 usd for that combo...	00:14
Cptnodegard	ah	00:14
Cptnodegard	sansa clip is the best cheap mp3 player out there ATM	00:15
Cptnodegard	hmm	00:15
jackster	ah I see	00:15
Cptnodegard	lets see	00:15
Cptnodegard	iGo is 30 GBP shipped or so from mymemory.co.uk	00:15
sxpert_	hmm. Which package should I install on my n810 to get gst-launch*	00:15
Cptnodegard	n800 is 170 GBP from play.com	00:16
*** krau has joined #maemo		00:16
Cptnodegard	sansa clip is 25-40 GBP from play.com	00:16
Cptnodegard	memory card of your choice	00:16
Cptnodegard	still under the 290 GBP for 810	00:17
Cptnodegard	but as i said, all about how much you are willing to carry :D	00:17
jackster	great, thanks Cptnodegard, I'll probably just go for the N800 just now and an SD card, I'll see how it goes from there	00:17
Cptnodegard	good idea	00:17
Cptnodegard	maybe throw in a case	00:17
*** kaie has quit IRC		00:18
Cptnodegard	ebay has nice leather cases for 25 USD shipped or so	00:18
jackster	do you think a case would be necessary?	00:18
sxpert_	n810 is sweet	00:18
Cptnodegard	yeah, or at least i prefer using one	00:19
*** rm_you\|n800 has quit IRC		00:19
Cptnodegard	http://captain-odegard.com/n800/n800cseandheadphones.jpg the case i have	00:19
* jsmith loves his n810		00:19
* michele_ too		00:20
jackster	OK I think what I'll do is go for an N800 with an SD card, maybe a case and then see how it goes	00:21
Cptnodegard	^^	00:21
jackster	never really played with the N8*0, so no point in buying the £100+ more expensive one then finding out I don't like it	00:21
*** alterego has joined #maemo		00:21
*** vegai has left #maemo		00:21
Cptnodegard	good point	00:21
pupnik	wb alterego - thanks for the new ruby builds	00:21
jackster	although I doubt I won't like :P	00:22
alterego	pupnik, they're not new :P	00:22
alterego	But the website is back.	00:22
Cptnodegard	the devices are identical except for storage, kb and gps	00:22
alterego	I'm moving from that crap VPS to a couple of dedicated servers tomorrow.	00:22
alterego	Gonna be a mamoth task ^_^ But hopefully enjoyable :)	00:22
Blafasel	Damn, failed to dl the map again.	00:23
pupnik	ruby1.8-maemo_0.3.0-1_maemo4_armel.deb <- that's old?	00:23
alterego	pupnik, yes. We're on 0.4.0 now.	00:23
pupnik	ok. have you seen knots 0.2?	00:24
jackster	great, you've been mega helpful Cptnodegard	00:24
Cptnodegard	np :D	00:24
alterego	pupnik, no. But I've been talking to solmumaha quite a bit about it :)	00:24
pupnik	it's buttah	00:24
alterego	Yeah, I'll be releasing 0.4.1 anyday now ..	00:25
alterego	With fixed LibConIc and a nice desktop plugin infrastructure.	00:25
alterego	Been working on test suites the past few evenings.	00:25
alterego	I	00:25
*** matt_c has quit IRC		00:26
*** hugolp has joined #maemo		00:26
pupnik	i don't know sh*t about ruby, but just looking at sol's knots code makes me love it	00:27
pupnik	seems pretty fast too, with startup/loadtimes and the screen updates when scrolling	00:28
alterego	Startup is hindered mostly by ruby-gtk.	00:28
michele_	what's knots?	00:28
alterego	I've been working on Ruby1.9-maemo as well recently. So as soon as that becomes properly stable I'll release it.	00:29
*** jacques is now known as jacques-work		00:29
alterego	_Hopefully_ I wont suffer the python-maemo problem of a major release update ;)	00:29
pupnik	michele_: lets me watch all my video on the pc on the tablets, transcoded streaming	00:29
pupnik	*stored on the pc	00:29
michele_	link?	00:29
pupnik	ah it's work in progress. hopefully next week there'll be a usable alpha of knots 0.2	00:30
*** matsk has joined #maemo		00:30
michele_	oh ok	00:30
*** hugolp has quit IRC		00:30
alterego	I think he's waiting for me to give him a fixed LibConIc ;)	00:30
* pupnik sics http://pupnik.de/arbeiten.gif on alterego		00:31
pupnik	(arbeiten! = work!)	00:31
alterego	:D	00:32
*** behdad has quit IRC		00:32
alterego	Hah, is that solmumaha ? :D	00:32
alterego	He's pretty hot for a man.	00:32
*** seraph1 has quit IRC		00:33
pupnik	im gonna goof off another 22 minutes and then get to work here	00:33
GEORGE_BG	How can i boot directly into KDE without first having to boot Hildon and selecting it from the menu? That way i could dual boot into either Hildon (boot from flash) or KDE (boot from mmc)	00:34
alterego	I'm at a bit of a loose end. Think I might work on a public release of the maemo SDK and maemo-sdk+ images for qemu and VMWare ..	00:34
GEORGE_BG	?	00:34
alterego	Or I could continue gedit ..	00:35
alterego	Or my gnome-desktop port ..	00:35
alterego	Oh, the choices ..	00:35
GEORGE_BG	can someone help me	00:36
pupnik	GEORGE_BG: if penguinbait is around he might know an answer	00:36
GEORGE_BG	unfortunatly hi is not here	00:37
*** Vudentz has quit IRC		00:38
alterego	You'd need to edit the init.d scripts to not start hildon desktop and run kde instead.	00:39
*** Blain has quit IRC		00:40
*** NetBlade has joined #maemo		00:40
\|\|cw	haha http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/18/keepin-it-real-fake-part-cvi-n800-gets-chinafied/	00:40
GEORGE_BG	alterego yes i need in to	00:41
GEORGE_BG	do you have idea how to make it	00:41
alterego	Sure, you edit a script or more in init.d :P	00:42
*** renatofilho^ has quit IRC		00:43
GEORGE_BG	Do you find some info about script	00:43
alterego	Erm ..	00:43
alterego	/etc/init.d ?	00:43
\|R	wow, store.nokia@nokia.ca doesn't even work!	00:44
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC		00:44
GEORGE_BG	i haven'd find someone who did it	00:44
GEORGE_BG	i think this is the way to have more RAM in KDE	00:45
alterego	GEORGE_BG, you probably want to remove '/etc/init.d/S51hildon-desktop' and replace it with a startup script that runs KDE.	00:45
alterego	Infact, if you just move and edit that file to S51kde-startup or something ..	00:45
*** yatiohi has quit IRC		00:46
alterego	But it's really up to you. I've not used KDE on my tablet and don't really plan to.	00:47
GEORGE_BG	whay ?	00:47
lcuk_2	maemo is (apparantly) designed for tablets, kde isnt.	00:47
alterego	Because it's pointless in my opinion.	00:47
alterego	I'd rather spend my time making maemo better than wasting my time using an interface I don't really even like.	00:48
Lynoure	I like kde on a laptop, but very well said alterego	00:49
*** Cptn-N800 has joined #Maemo		00:49
* lcuk_2 wants a laft handed hildon desktop		00:49
*** indolent has left #maemo		00:49
alterego	:)	00:49
lcuk_2	^left	00:49
Lynoure	and on N800/N810, based on screenshots, KDE seems a bit unwieldy	00:49
*** hugolp has joined #maemo		00:49
alterego	lcuk_2, something like that would be good. And should have been in there from that start ;)	00:49
lcuk_2	its great with a magnifying glass and pin as stylus	00:49
GEORGE_BG	may be you are right but i whant to try it	00:49
lcuk_2	alter, full rotation should have been	00:50
alterego	Well, rotation is a bit trickier. As Hildon/Matchbox isn't built with that in mind.	00:50
lcuk_2	george, ive read its easier getting the 800s dual booting than an 810	00:50
alterego	lcuk_2, no harder or easier. It's pretty much identical.	00:50
lcuk_2	but hildon could very easily be with just a few resizable elements that you should be able to say "go here, expand there"	00:50
alterego	lcuk_2, sure. but that's not how it works :P	00:51
GEORGE_BG	alterego can you help how to burn CD's on my tablet i have usb cd-rw	00:51
*** Sulis has joined #maemo		00:51
lcuk_2	i know that and have seen the way the hildon desktop theming appears to work (its very static)	00:51
alterego	GEORGE_BG, you'd need to compile the appropriate kernel modules and cd burning utilities.	00:51
alterego	Yes, static and pretty complex IMO	00:51
alterego	Well, I don't think I'd use rotation for anything anyway .. Except maybe games. Which can do that regardless.	00:52
*** geaaru has quit IRC		00:52
lcuk_2	yer - but as with anything in linux another way will come along, and hopefully it will retain compatability with hildon rather than just reinvent	00:52
lcuk_2	alter, i read a lot on my device and would prefer web and whole interface to be portrait	00:53
alterego	Well, Hildon is mostly fine. It's the desktop and matchbox that are the problem. And matchbox is only a problem because of hildon desktop. Matchbox could easily rotate and does on many devices (the Palm Linux stuff)	00:53
alterego	It's purely because Nokia have disabled rotation and that hildon-desktop is created in such a way that it's just not practical.	00:54
lcuk_2	yer i know	00:54
lcuk_2	reminds me, i posted something earlier on today about a class action suit from HTC phone users who found out their device with chipset X(having 3d features) isnt using its features...	00:55
lcuk_2	have you seen anything about this	00:55
*** hfwilke has quit IRC		00:55
alterego	No.	00:55
lcuk_2	http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/17/htc-owners-arms-graphics	00:55
alterego	But that's like me sueing linux for not using my DRM hardware :P	00:55
lcuk_2	certainly rings certain bells in my mind	00:55
Lynoure	lcuk_2: weird... it's not like people could be forced to use hw to its full extent...	00:56
GEORGE_BG	Are someone have problems usb flash some flash-a i can't read thay are formated in FAT mu say-s that "unable to connect, no file system available"	00:56
alterego	Yeah, it's really dumb.	00:56
*** matsk has quit IRC		00:57
*** juergbi has quit IRC		00:57
GEORGE_BG	alterego do you have this problem	00:58
alterego	No	00:58
GEORGE_BG	whith some flash memory	00:58
lcuk_2	Lynoure, people see the nokia n series phones with the same CPU chipset running 3d graphics. why cant i do it on a different nokia device that i paid more for?	00:58
lcuk_2	its a valid question	00:58
alterego	Sure, it's a "valid" question. But it doesn't change a damn thing.	00:59
Lynoure	lcuk_2: it's a question... another question was that was this not in the stats they saw when buying the device?	00:59
alterego	You don't have 3D acceleration on the tablets because the drivers are closed source and Nokia don't want to buy them.	00:59
*** fsmw has quit IRC		00:59
alterego	You get what you paid for.	01:00
alterego	Anything else that may or may not happen in the future is a bonus ..	01:00
lcuk_2	if you don't ask the question you wont find the answer.	01:00
lcuk_2	if we don't tell nokia in clear certain terms then how can we expect them to know its a highly desired component	01:01
alterego	The answer has been known for a long time lcuk_2 it's a question that has been around since the N800 :P	01:01
Lynoure	lots of device manufacturers use standard parts, even if they have no interest in using all the features, often because the simplified hw, without the features, would be way more expensive. Funny world.	01:01
alterego	lcuk_2, they _know_ it's highly desired. People have made a lot of comments and Nokia have said if they can do it they will.	01:01
alterego	So we just have to be patient and not keep our hopes up	01:01
alterego	Lynoure, exactly, and the CPU in the N8x0 tablets is used in a _lot_ of their phone models!	01:02
alterego	So they get them a lot cheaper as they buy a lot of them.	01:02
*** jegp has left #maemo		01:02
`0660_	but who would use closed source drivers anyway? :)	01:02
lcuk_2	ummm nokia?	01:03
lcuk_2	;)	01:03
*** rdorsch has quit IRC		01:04
michele_	`0660_: well, you already are using quite a lot of closed software on your IT	01:05
`0660_	and i	01:05
`0660_	m not happy! :)	01:06
michele_	but you use it	01:06
michele_	so you would use closed drivers too	01:06
*** Pio_ has joined #maemo		01:08
*** JussiP has quit IRC		01:08
alterego	Well, it's settled. I'm gonna continue working on gedit.	01:10
michele_	alterego: to be hones, I'd preferred the SDK image :)	01:11
michele_	t	01:11
*** jprieur_ has joined #maemo		01:11
GEORGE_BG	alterego i have found a script do you know here to paste this script http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41808&postcount=39	01:11
alterego	michele_, I'll compile that tomorrow when I'm working on moving from my VPS to the two dedicated servers I've not got.	01:11
*** Xamusk has joined #maemo		01:11
Xamusk	hi	01:12
*** jprieur has quit IRC		01:12
*** kupesoft has joined #maemo		01:14
alterego	I didn't realize there was actually any interested in my images :P	01:14
alterego	But now I know there's at least one person interested I'll do it :)	01:14
*** jprieur_ is now known as jprieur		01:14
GEORGE_BG	what you are talking about	01:15
michele_	alterego: actually, there is a garage project with that	01:15
*** DaniloCesar has joined #maemo		01:15
*** Raistl\|n has quit IRC		01:16
alterego	Whoopy	01:16
michele_	alterego: but I have the feeling you don't like it.. ;)	01:16
michele_	alterego: it has eclipse in it	01:16
*** DaniloCesar has quit IRC		01:16
alterego	Yeah, that's not how mine work.	01:17
alterego	It's not like a live CD.	01:17
alterego	It's just a base debian system with the SDK's setup.	01:17
alterego	The idea is you ssh in and use xephyr on your main desktop.	01:17
michele_	I see	01:17
michele_	so it would be quite smaller too	01:17
*** kupesoft has quit IRC		01:18
alterego	Yeah, though. It reports to be 7G at the moment.	01:18
alterego	Even though the environment thinks it's only 3G ..	01:18
*** Dashiad has joined #maemo		01:21
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC		01:22
Dashiad	Hello...I'm having problems installing scratchbox for N770 development..Anybody knows why am i getting "/scratchbox/dev does not contain standard device nodes!" after following the howto step-by-step?	01:23
*** sbaturzio has quit IRC		01:23
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo		01:24
*** rgriffit has joined #maemo		01:25
Lynoure	Dashiad: never even looked at the howto... but what device nodes does it got?	01:25
*** Cptn-N800 has left #Maemo		01:25
Dashiad	Just a few	01:26
rgriffit	does someone have jpegs of how to wire a serial connector to the pad inside the N800?	01:26
Dashiad	but	01:26
Dashiad	i've downloaded an untarred all the scratchbox files (core, libs, devkits and toolchain)	01:27
Dashiad	belonging to the 1.0.7	01:27
Lynoure	Dashiad: Which few is kinda relevant... dev/null is normally at least expected, in most happy chroot situations, so why not there too	01:28
Lynoure	Dashiad: you could pastebin ls -la /scratchbox/dev and I bet something would dawn	01:28
Dashiad	initctl null pts	01:29
Lynoure	yep, looked at the code giving the error	01:30
Lynoure	it wants dev/null	01:31
Lynoure	DEV_DIR=$SBOX_DIR/dev	01:31
Dashiad	Yes, i'm too..But null is there..	01:31
Lynoure	if [ ! -c $DEV_DIR/null ]; then	01:31
Dashiad	i'm exec-ing as root	01:31
*** red-zack has quit IRC		01:31
Lynoure	probably something wrong with it, then...	01:31
*** matt_c has joined #maemo		01:31
Dashiad	i just uninstalled the scratchbox for n800 dev...maybe there are env vars around	01:32
Lynoure	If you think that helps...	01:32
*** TimRiker has joined #maemo		01:32
*** korpios has quit IRC		01:33
*** svu_ has joined #maemo		01:34
*** Sulis has quit IRC		01:35
*** felipec_ has joined #maemo		01:35
*** svu__ has quit IRC		01:35
*** Pio has quit IRC		01:35
*** svu has quit IRC		01:35
*** l7 has joined #maemo		01:36
Dashiad	Hmm..added an echo to that script, and it looks for the right dir..	01:37
*** felipec has quit IRC		01:37
*** felipec_ is now known as felipec		01:38
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		01:38
*** ajturner has quit IRC		01:43
*** ajturner has joined #maemo		01:43
Dashiad	wow..found the error..	01:44
Dashiad	the scratchbox install is screwed	01:44
Lynoure	Dashiad: remember to submit a patch too, if it was the latest version you were using :)	01:45
*** felipec_ has joined #maemo		01:46
Dashiad	Is screwed, but still dont know how to solve it...	01:47
Dashiad	The "null" device actually contains something :-P	01:47
*** sladen has quit IRC		01:48
*** michele_ has quit IRC		01:48
Lynoure	I think after asking twice what you null looks like, I should not ask again :)	01:48
*** sladen has joined #maemo		01:48
*** skibur has quit IRC		01:48
Dashiad	It contains: "tar: Semantics of -l option will change in the future releases..." .. it's a tar error	01:48
*** jpuderer has quit IRC		01:49
*** svu has joined #maemo		01:49
*** GNUtoN810 has quit IRC		01:50
*** lubyou has quit IRC		01:51
*** seb_ has quit IRC		01:51
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC		01:52
Lynoure	Dashiad: how about just working around by creating a proper one by hand?	01:52
* Lynoure gets a bit lazy at ~02		01:53
Lynoure	mknod dev/null c 1 3 && chmod 666 dev/null as root, that is.	01:55
*** matt_c has quit IRC		01:56
*** ajturner has quit IRC		01:56
*** felipec has quit IRC		01:57
Dashiad	That makes sbox_ctl start to work	01:59
Lynoure	I'm assuming that's a good thing? :)	02:00
Dashiad	but then, login, complains about not being able to redirect a command to /dev/null (it's chmod-ed to 666)	02:00
Dashiad	Um..i cant login :-P	02:01
Dashiad	I'm trying to find which tar command is complaining when creating the devices	02:02
Lynoure	hmm, could you maybe now show me what the resulting null node looks like, with ls -l?	02:02
*** Zword has quit IRC		02:02
*** blassey has quit IRC		02:02
Lynoure	I would not put it beyond me to forget stuff at this hour... (damn processes needing babysitting at ungodly hours)	02:03
*** blassey has joined #maemo		02:03
*** pdz has joined #maemo		02:03
Lynoure	I think in about whole 5min I'll go and get some sleep anyway	02:04
Dashiad	-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 158 Jan 19 00:17 null	02:05
Lynoure	missing a c...	02:05
Dashiad	Full contents (the 158 bytes)	02:05
*** Zword has joined #maemo		02:05
Dashiad	Sure	02:05
Dashiad	because that null	02:05
Dashiad	has been created	02:05
Dashiad	as result	02:05
Dashiad	of a failing tar command	02:05
Lynoure	so, you did not try creating it by hand...	02:05
Dashiad	so 2> /dev/null is, somehow, creating it	02:05
Dashiad	i did	02:06
Dashiad	i'm showing you	02:06
Dashiad	the original null file	02:06
Dashiad	the install created	02:06
Dashiad	The one created by hand looks like	02:06
Dashiad	crwxrwxrwx 1 root root 1, 3 Jan 19 00:59	02:06
Dashiad	it's a node	02:06
Lynoure	oh, I thought you meant you had the redirect problem even with the handmade	02:06
Dashiad	and i chmoed it to 777	02:06
Dashiad	with the hand made	02:07
Dashiad	i can	02:07
Dashiad	sbox_ctl start	02:07
Dashiad	but cant login	02:07
Dashiad	when login	02:07
Dashiad	it says permission denied	02:07
Lynoure	You type like an angry person, sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way	02:07
*** djcb has quit IRC		02:07
*** behdad has joined #maemo		02:07
Lynoure	Good night, good luck, too.	02:08
Dashiad	thank you!	02:13
Dashiad	No,lol, i'm typing like a person-with-his-gf-at-his-side so i cant type long phrases, lol	02:14
*** slomo has quit IRC		02:15
*** eijk has quit IRC		02:15
*** pdz- has quit IRC		02:16
*** jebw has joined #maemo		02:17
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo		02:18
jebw	I'm trying to build a package for os2008, it all works fine but the files are owned by my uid (on my desktop), not root - how do I change this?	02:18
jebw	I can't sudo and fakeroot doesn't actually change the ownership?	02:18
*** slomo has joined #maemo		02:19
sp3000	fakeroot fakes it for stuff you run with it	02:19
*** Zword has quit IRC		02:19
*** Zword has joined #maemo		02:20
jebw	figured so - hence why it wasn't actually changing the owner ship. How do i actually change the ownership in the scratchbox environment?	02:20
sp3000	like, say, the command building the package	02:20
sp3000	why?	02:20
pupnik	dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot	02:21
pupnik	?	02:21
jebw	ok - I'm building with dpkg-deb --build	02:21
sp3000	pfft short answers :P	02:21
jebw	i've got my tree of files, all owned by me	02:21
sp3000	\|fakeroot dpkg-deb --build\| will probably do it then	02:21
*** sladen has quit IRC		02:22
jebw	ok will give that a shot	02:22
sp3000	you don't actually need anything root owned, just that the package building process sees root owned (not really) files	02:22
sp3000	which fakeroot helps with	02:23
*** seraph1 has joined #maemo		02:23
*** DeLe0n has joined #maemo		02:24
*** pupnik has quit IRC		02:25
*** pupnik has joined #maemo		02:26
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC		02:26
jebw	kerching! Thanks sp300	02:27
jebw	0	02:27
jebw	Theres now a working bzr package for os2008	02:27
jebw	whats the best way to host one of these things - currently its just a deb linked off've my blog	02:28
pupnik	mud-builder probably	02:29
*** Zword has quit IRC		02:30
*** pupnik810 has quit IRC		02:31
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo		02:35
*** sp3000 has quit IRC		02:39
jebw	If I wanted to create my own repository - what do I need to do (more likely the bzr guys will want to host it on their site)	02:39
*** Dashiad has quit IRC		02:40
*** mankod has quit IRC		02:41
*** l7 has quit IRC		02:42
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		02:49
*** ha1f_ has joined #maemo		02:49
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC		02:49
*** jebw has quit IRC		02:49
*** Sargun has quit IRC		02:51
*** s0up has joined #maemo		02:55
*** celesteh has quit IRC		02:56
s0up	ping	02:57
*** TimRiker has quit IRC		02:57
*** matt_c has joined #maemo		03:00
Tama^2	pong	03:01
*** [1]a-l-p-h-a has quit IRC		03:01
*** [1]a-l-p-h-a has joined #maemo		03:01
*** Cptnodegard has quit IRC		03:01
*** sladen has joined #maemo		03:04
*** gopi has joined #maemo		03:05
*** Zetx has joined #maemo		03:06
*** felipec_ has quit IRC		03:07
*** ha1f has quit IRC		03:08
*** [1]a-l-p-h-a has quit IRC		03:08
*** [1]a-l-p-h-a has joined #maemo		03:08
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo		03:09
*** jackster has quit IRC		03:09
*** blassey_ has joined #maemo		03:11
*** blassey has quit IRC		03:11
niteOw1	I've been googling but found very little trace of any project like this - Anyone considered using the skyhookwireless.com service to add wi-fi based location awareness to the N800	03:12
s0up	Thanks Tama^2	03:15
*** gopi__ has joined #maemo		03:15
*** gopi_ has quit IRC		03:15
*** henrique has quit IRC		03:17
*** [1]a-l-p-h-a is now known as a-l-p-h-a		03:20
*** oil_ has joined #maemo		03:24
*** s0up has quit IRC		03:25
*** gonp has quit IRC		03:31
*** gopi has quit IRC		03:32
*** matt_c has quit IRC		03:33
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		03:34
*** Tuco1 has quit IRC		03:39
*** cancerbero_ has quit IRC		03:41
*** monkeyiq has joined #maemo		03:41
*** oil has quit IRC		03:42
*** ha1f has joined #maemo		03:43
*** ha1f__ has joined #maemo		03:52
*** ha1f_ has quit IRC		03:55
*** xbmodder_ has joined #maemo		04:01
*** qnr has quit IRC		04:03
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC		04:06
*** jnettlet has quit IRC		04:06
*** alterego has quit IRC		04:07
*** ha1f has quit IRC		04:08
*** Xamusk has quit IRC		04:10
*** jprieur has quit IRC		04:12
*** jsmith is now known as jsmith-zzz		04:14
*** trevarthan has joined #maemo		04:14
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo		04:14
trevarthan	Anyone ever had trouble with networking inside scratchbox?	04:14
*** Sargun has quit IRC		04:15
trevarthan	Using that vmware scratchbox and it's got network everywhere except inside scratchbox itself.	04:15
*** xbmodder_ is now known as Sargun		04:15
*** Tama^2 has quit IRC		04:17
*** xbmodder_ has joined #maemo		04:20
johnx	trevarthan, is it just DNS? or can you not even ping IPs?	04:20
*** Sargun has quit IRC		04:22
*** xbmodder_ is now known as Sargun		04:22
trevarthan	johnx: unfortunately, scratchbox has no ping command. :(	04:23
trevarthan	so I don't really know.	04:24
johnx	hmm	04:24
johnx	look at /etc/nsswitch.conf from inside scratchbox	04:24
trevarthan	mkay. looks normal	04:25
johnx	also try looking at /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf from outside scratchbox	04:26
johnx	they're actually different files...	04:26
trevarthan	yeah, seems to be a dns issue as I get the temporary failure message when trying to use svn	04:27
trevarthan	checking outside file now	04:27
trevarthan	don't know what I'm looking for. looks normalish	04:28
johnx	does it?	04:28
johnx	hmm	04:28
johnx	I know I had a problem with it at some point and I've heard others did as well but it might have been a different version of the maemo SDK	04:28
trevarthan	the one inside is much more verbose. let me try overwriting it	04:29
*** Sargun has quit IRC		04:29
johnx	the hosts like should just be:	04:29
johnx	hosts: files dns	04:29
trevarthan	yeah. it is. didn't help.	04:30
*** ol_schoola has quit IRC		04:30
*** EruditeHermit has joined #maemo		04:30
*** EruditeH1rmit has joined #maemo		04:30
trevarthan	fixed it	04:38
trevarthan	johnx: sudo cp /etc/resolv.conf /scratchbox/etc/	04:39
trevarthan	got the fix from here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-6332.html	04:39
johnx	good deal	04:41
*** lexiyntax has joined #maemo		04:47
*** bilboed has quit IRC		04:52
*** msh has quit IRC		04:57
*** unique311 has joined #maemo		04:57
*** EruditeH2rmit has joined #maemo		04:59
*** EruditeH3rmit has joined #maemo		05:00
*** slomo has quit IRC		05:01
*** slomo_ has joined #maemo		05:01
trevarthan	anyone have a deb for libwpeditor-plus-dev?	05:02
trevarthan	seems to be awol in my scratchbox	05:02
*** jeff1f has quit IRC		05:05
*** lexiyntax has quit IRC		05:09
*** lrentz has joined #maemo		05:12
*** EruditeH1rmit has quit IRC		05:17
*** EruditeHermit has quit IRC		05:19
*** mankod has joined #maemo		05:20
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC		05:24
*** disq has quit IRC		05:26
*** matt_c has joined #maemo		05:27
*** disq has joined #maemo		05:27
*** tchan2 has joined #maemo		05:31
*** eton_ has joined #maemo		05:32
*** tchan has quit IRC		05:34
*** tchan2 is now known as tchan		05:34
johnx	trevarthan, it should be available in the repository	05:35
*** Palintheus has quit IRC		05:36
*** matt_c has quit IRC		05:38
*** Palintheus has joined #maemo		05:38
*** eton_ has quit IRC		05:41
*** ol_schoola has joined #maemo		05:41
*** tchan1 has joined #maemo		05:48
*** eton has quit IRC		05:50
*** tchan has quit IRC		05:53
*** hfwilke has joined #maemo		05:55
*** netx has quit IRC		05:57
*** tchan has joined #maemo		06:02
*** tchan1 has quit IRC		06:06
*** ol_schoola_ has joined #maemo		06:06
*** ol_schoola has quit IRC		06:08
*** tchan1 has joined #maemo		06:10
*** pcfe has quit IRC		06:15
*** Redbibi has quit IRC		06:17
*** ha1f__ has quit IRC		06:18
*** ha1f has joined #maemo		06:18
*** gopi__ has quit IRC		06:19
*** tchan has quit IRC		06:20
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		06:28
*** tchan1 is now known as tchan		06:28
*** tchan has quit IRC		06:36
*** tchan has joined #maemo		06:36
*** johnx has quit IRC		06:46
*** n6hgg has joined #maemo		06:49
*** tchan has quit IRC		06:59
*** Tama^2 has joined #maemo		07:02
*** guardian has joined #maemo		07:13
*** oil_ has quit IRC		07:15
*** guardian has quit IRC		07:15
*** tchan has joined #maemo		07:15
*** guardian has joined #maemo		07:16
*** K-Fox has joined #maemo		07:18
K-Fox	do n810 gps support in japan ?	07:20
*** tchan1 has joined #maemo		07:22
*** blassey has joined #maemo		07:23
*** blassey_ has quit IRC		07:23
*** tchan has quit IRC		07:24
*** tchan1 is now known as tchan		07:25
*** guardian has quit IRC		07:28
*** guardian has joined #maemo		07:28
*** Tama^2 has quit IRC		07:29
*** tchan1 has joined #maemo		07:36
*** tchan has quit IRC		07:38
*** tchan1 is now known as tchan		07:38
*** guardian has quit IRC		07:39
*** guardian has joined #maemo		07:40
*** hfwilke has quit IRC		07:41
*** guardian_ has joined #maemo		07:43
zoran	any1 using perl to connect to libssl on gregale?	07:49
tank-man	K-Fox, gps is worldwide	07:50
*** ol_schoola_ has left #maemo		07:53
K-Fox	tank-man : really? wow it's a great device	07:54
*** guardian has quit IRC		08:00
*** RussB has joined #maemo		08:00
*** setanta has quit IRC		08:04
*** guardian has joined #maemo		08:07
*** guardian_ has quit IRC		08:07
*** guardian has quit IRC		08:07
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		08:07
*** RussB has left #maemo		08:07
*** guardian has joined #maemo		08:07
*** mikemx has joined #maemo		08:08
*** Pio_ is now known as Pio		08:10
*** tchan1 has joined #maemo		08:11
*** mikemx has left #maemo		08:11
*** Zic has joined #maemo		08:12
*** zodman has joined #maemo		08:14
*** Tama^2 has joined #maemo		08:17
*** rwhitby-away has joined #maemo		08:18
*** tchan has quit IRC		08:20
*** tchan2 has joined #maemo		08:25
*** tchan1 has quit IRC		08:30
* czr peeks		08:39
Lynoure	morning, czr	08:40
czr	hey Lynoure :-). morning indeed.	08:40
*** tchan2 has quit IRC		08:40
*** tchan2 has joined #maemo		08:40
*** guardian_ has joined #maemo		08:42
*** guardian has quit IRC		08:42
*** Tama^2 has quit IRC		08:49
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		08:57
*** guardian_ has quit IRC		09:05
*** johnx has joined #maemo		09:21
*** mankod has quit IRC		09:27
*** astro76 has quit IRC		09:31
*** astro76 has joined #maemo		09:32
K-Fox	because of morning , all is quiet?	09:33
*** rdorsch has joined #maemo		09:34
johnx	i don't know	09:34
johnx	it is very quiet though	09:34
*** ha1f_ has joined #maemo		09:34
*** unique311 has quit IRC		09:34
*** ha1f_ has quit IRC		09:35
rm_you	Someone accept my garage request!!!	09:35
* rm_you sleeps		09:35
*** ha1f_ has joined #maemo		09:35
*** ha1f_ has joined #maemo		09:36
*** ha1f_ has quit IRC		09:37
*** ha1f_ has joined #maemo		09:37
*** juergbi has joined #maemo		09:38
*** astro76 has quit IRC		09:38
*** matt_c has joined #maemo		09:39
*** astro76 has joined #maemo		09:39
*** ha1f_ has joined #maemo		09:40
* czr parks rm_you in his garage		09:41
*** geaaru has quit IRC		09:41
czr	you want your oil changed sir?	09:41
johnx	he's asleep	09:41
johnx	might as well go for it	09:41
johnx	just charge him when he wakes up :)	09:41
czr	nah, I'm testing new prototype oil, can't charge for that :-)	09:42
czr	it's made out of compressed maemo developer souls	09:42
*** ha1f has quit IRC		09:42
*** ha1f_ is now known as ha1f		09:42
johnx	sounds envigorating	09:43
czr	I haven't yet tested it on human subjects, we'll have to see.	09:45
* czr finishes changing rm_you's oil		09:45
czr	you'd better ask him when he wakes up	09:45
johnx	meh	09:45
*** astro76 has quit IRC		09:45
*** astro76 has joined #maemo		09:45
czr	OT. hmm. any experience with openssl performace on x86-64? aka, is it any faster when the CPU is running in long mode (64-bit) vs 32-bit one.	09:46
czr	(for SSL usage)	09:46
*** ssvb has joined #maemo		09:47
czr	ah, seems so, at least for RSA	09:48
Lynoure	czr: http://www.newmobilecomputing.com/story/5768/Are_64-bit_Binaries_Really_Slower_than_32-bit_Binaries_/page2/ might be interesting too	09:49
Lynoure	though I did not read it enough to check relevance :)	09:49
czr	yeah, maybe you should have, it's for sparc ;-)	09:50
czr	I found some other info off google though, so no problem :-)	09:50
czr	the RSA stuff in long mode is at least 100% faster	09:50
czr	which makes sense.	09:50
*** K-Fox has quit IRC		09:52
*** astro76 has left #maemo		09:53
*** netx has joined #maemo		09:53
[pablo]	so that's weird, the power and keylock buttons on my n810 just stopped working for no reason	09:55
*** Cptnodegard has joined #maemo		10:00
*** astro76 has joined #maemo		10:01
*** astro76 has joined #maemo		10:02
*** gnuton_ has joined #maemo		10:02
[pablo]	can anyone think of anything that might cause my n810 to constantly think it was still open, even when it's closed?	10:03
johnx	I don't have an N810 but my old zaurus 5500 with pullout keyboard would get confused if the contacts got dirty	10:04
[pablo]	i don't see any contacts =/	10:06
johnx	I figured it was a long shot	10:06
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		10:08
DeLe0n	any news of the US discount codes?	10:09
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC		10:12
*** ch4os_ has joined #maemo		10:12
*** ha1f has quit IRC		10:12
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo		10:14
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		10:18
*** gnuton has quit IRC		10:19
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo		10:31
*** jprieur has joined #maemo		10:39
*** truent has joined #maemo		10:50
truent	anyone get gngeo to install on os2008?	10:50
*** corona has joined #maemo		10:54
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		10:57
*** RushPL_ has quit IRC		10:59
*** RushPL_ has joined #maemo		11:00
*** DeLe0n has quit IRC		11:08
*** dolske has quit IRC		11:13
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC		11:18
*** behdad has quit IRC		11:19
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC		11:27
*** tank-man has quit IRC		11:29
*** RushPL_ has quit IRC		11:30
*** dolske has joined #maemo		11:33
*** Sargun has quit IRC		11:36
*** bedboi has quit IRC		11:40
*** ol_schoola has joined #maemo		11:40
Cptnodegard	hmm	11:40
Cptnodegard	maemo need a screenshot library	11:40
Cptnodegard	searching ITT shows a lot of info, but never any screenshots	11:41
Cptnodegard	for various aps	11:41
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		11:42
*** RushPL_ has joined #maemo		11:42
*** gnuton has joined #maemo		11:42
*** Sargun has quit IRC		11:44
*** Aniruddha_NL has joined #maemo		11:47
*** jprieur has quit IRC		11:47
*** Aniruddha_NL has quit IRC		11:48
*** Aniruddha_NL has joined #maemo		11:48
*** tjafk2 has joined #maemo		11:49
*** tank-man has joined #maemo		11:53
*** jacques has joined #maemo		11:54
*** eber_ has joined #maemo		11:54
*** astro76 has quit IRC		11:57
*** gnuton_ has quit IRC		11:57
*** astro76 has joined #maemo		12:00
*** astro76 has quit IRC		12:02
*** zumbi_ has joined #maemo		12:02
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		12:04
*** astro76 has joined #maemo		12:04
*** tjafk3 has quit IRC		12:06
*** astro76 has joined #maemo		12:07
*** frade has joined #maemo		12:13
*** zumbi has quit IRC		12:14
*** n6hgg has quit IRC		12:14
*** red-zack has joined #maemo		12:21
*** X-Fade_ has joined #maemo		12:22
*** RushPL_ has quit IRC		12:23
*** p\| has joined #maemo		12:23
*** guaka has joined #maemo		12:28
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo		12:31
*** giskard has joined #maemo		12:34
*** EruditeH3rmit has quit IRC		12:37
*** zodman has quit IRC		12:38
*** jprieur has joined #maemo		12:38
*** EruditeH2rmit has quit IRC		12:38
*** X-Fade has quit IRC		12:39
*** giskard has quit IRC		12:45
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo		12:46
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo		12:46
*** kaie has joined #maemo		13:06
*** fab has joined #maemo		13:10
*** lrentz has left #maemo		13:17
*** Dist has quit IRC		13:20
*** sp3000 has joined #maemo		13:25
*** tko has quit IRC		13:37
*** gnuton_ has joined #maemo		13:44
*** barisione has joined #maemo		13:46
*** Zic has quit IRC		13:46
*** monkeyiq has quit IRC		13:49
*** djcb has joined #maemo		13:49
*** gnuton__ has joined #maemo		13:50
*** Zic has joined #maemo		13:53
*** gnuton has quit IRC		14:02
kulve	use my screen grabber :)	14:05
*** gnuton_ has quit IRC		14:07
*** gnuton has joined #maemo		14:10
sp3000	heh, desktop snap grid customization	14:11
* sp3000 is amused		14:11
*** tubtub has joined #maemo		14:11
LoCusF	damn damn damn	14:13
LoCusF	now my n810 is in a reboot loop	14:13
pupnik	wow	14:13
johnx	sometimes I think the watchdog was not the smartest move on Nokia's part ...	14:13
sp3000	meh, you want a watch-giraffe instead?	14:14
sp3000	that'd be weird.	14:14
johnx	can I get a zebra?	14:14
pupnik	The watchdog can be disabled by way of the no-retu-wd flag accessible from the flasher tool	14:14
pupnik	LoCusF: did you reflash the device with flasher 2.0?	14:15
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo		14:18
tubtub	Hi, has anyone played with serial comms over bluetooth?	14:22
LoCusF	pupnik: yeah, just did	14:22
LoCusF	pupnik: now I got my fingers crossed that it boots up again	14:22
pupnik	you should use flasher 3.0	14:23
LoCusF	pupnik: well heck flasher-3.0 :) :)	14:25
LoCusF	./flasher-3.0-static -F RX-44_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R	14:25
pupnik	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/changes/50-2_vs_44-4_changes.html	14:27
tubtub	I did that and it worked fine so u should be ok	14:27
pupnik	gives a good sense of how much development nokia actively does for these things	14:27
*** gnuton__ has quit IRC		14:28
*** tubtub has left #maemo		14:28
pupnik	what's the problem with watchdog johnx?	14:29
LoCusF	damn newer backup was corrupted	14:29
johnx	pupnik, I ran into it after trying to mess around with gstreamer plugins. My N800 let me boot to the desktop but then immediately rebooted	14:30
johnx	Luckily I had already switched to booting from SD, so it was a simple matter to remove the offending plugin and reboot	14:31
johnx	In some cases I feel like watchdog's "overreaction" makes a situation worse	14:32
pupnik	ah what is purpose of watchdog?	14:33
johnx	pupnik, as far as I understand: it watches several "important" programs and if they don't respond every 60 seconds to say they are running then watchdog reboots the system	14:34
*** tko has joined #maemo		14:36
*** pleemans has joined #maemo		14:36
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo		14:39
*** kaie has quit IRC		14:47
*** pupnik has quit IRC		14:50
*** Aniruddha_N800 has joined #maemo		14:50
*** RushPL_ has joined #maemo		14:52
*** fri has joined #maemo		14:55
*** jott has joined #maemo		14:57
*** felipec has joined #maemo		15:03
*** playya__ has joined #maemo		15:06
*** rdorsch has quit IRC		15:08
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo		15:08
*** j0tt has quit IRC		15:09
*** rdorsch has joined #maemo		15:10
*** ol_schoola has quit IRC		15:12
*** Xxaxx has joined #maemo		15:12
*** rdorsch has quit IRC		15:14
*** RushPL_ has quit IRC		15:15
*** RushPL_ has joined #maemo		15:15
*** rdorsch has joined #maemo		15:15
*** jsmith-zzz is now known as jsmith-away		15:15
*** booiiing has quit IRC		15:17
*** booiiing has joined #maemo		15:18
ccooke	Hmm. Any known problems with internet use over bluetooth on OS2008?	15:19
*** user_ has joined #maemo		15:20
*** rdorsch has quit IRC		15:20
*** rdorsch has joined #maemo		15:20
ccooke	since the last OS2008 update, bluetooth has worked fine for everything else - I can connect to the phone to send and receive files etc.	15:21
ccooke	But when I try to connect to the internet via the phone, I get an instant "Internet connection failed" message - doesn't appear to be trying to connect at all!	15:21
*** zumbi has joined #maemo		15:22
*** playya has quit IRC		15:22
*** Aniruddha_N800 has quit IRC		15:28
*** thopieka1 has joined #maemo		15:31
*** thopieka1 has left #maemo		15:31
LoCusF	ccooke: I had that problem once	15:31
LoCusF	ccooke: I needed to do a reflash to fix it :/	15:32
*** wwp has quit IRC		15:32
*** wwp has joined #maemo		15:33
ccooke	ah ha.	15:33
ccooke	Well, guess I can do that :-)	15:34
*** hein2 has joined #maemo		15:34
*** zumbi_ has quit IRC		15:34
*** Sho_ has quit IRC		15:34
*** booiiing has quit IRC		15:34
*** booiiing has joined #maemo		15:34
*** hein2 is now known as Sho_		15:35
*** Spouize has joined #maemo		15:35
Spouize	Hi	15:35
*** lubyou has joined #maemo		15:37
*** GNUtoN810 has joined #Maemo		15:39
GNUtoN810	Hi!	15:39
*** p\| has quit IRC		15:40
johnx	hi	15:49
*** Xxaxx has left #maemo		15:51
*** GEORGE_BG has quit IRC		15:52
*** GEORGE_BG has joined #maemo		15:52
*** alterego has joined #maemo		15:57
GNUtoN810	I packaged qt4 for maemo,and i created the .install file, but it doesn't work. I don't understand why! The file is in the qt4.maemo.garage.org.	15:59
GNUtoN810	Has anyone any idea?	15:59
alterego	Maybe your control file isn't right.	16:00
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo		16:00
alterego	Then again .. What does "it doesn't work" mean?	16:00
GNUtoN810	My n810 tell me that the oackage is not valid.	16:01
GNUtoN810	S/o/p	16:01
johnx	if you try it from the command line what happens?	16:01
alterego	Okay, in your control file what section have you put the library under?	16:01
alterego	Hmmm ...	16:03
GNUtoN810	The control file section is libs	16:03
alterego	I wish libraries wouldn't show up in the application catalog	16:04
alterego	GNUtoN810, that's not a valid "maemo"£ section	16:04
GNUtoN810	Where i can see the list of valid maemo sections?	16:05
alterego	Change it to 'user/libs'	16:05
GNUtoN810	Ok.	16:06
lcuk_2	is there anything i can get to record cpu/process stats over a time period - ie whilst idle with screen, using a full screen app and then whilst locked. and then view them after?	16:08
*** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik		16:09
lcuk_2	when i was waiting for my 810 to arrive i saw someone with a bootlogging kernel module that did pretty much what i am after but i cant for the life of me find out what it was	16:10
pupnik	fanoush on ITT forums might be a good search term for you lcuk_2	16:10
lcuk_2	thanks pupnik but i think fanoush will result in 7gazzilion results ;) ill carry on searching and see what i can find	16:11
johnx	lcuk_2, how about a script that calls 'top -n1 > log.txt'	16:13
*** tchan2 is now known as tchan		16:15
lcuk_2	i was thinking about that, ill give it a go. ive been using the load-applet and it shows desktop running at 5-10% all the time, im not sure if thats because of the applet itself running or not.	16:15
johnx	while true ; do top -n1 >> log.txt ; sleep 30 ; done	16:16
lcuk_2	thanks john, no point in running it too often else it will tie itself up	16:16
*** blassey has quit IRC		16:16
johnx	very true	16:17
*** blassey has joined #maemo		16:17
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo		16:17
lcuk_2	i just want to know if my battery problem is because I am leaving fbreader running when i go to sleep	16:17
johnx	actually, you might be better off just doing top -d60 -n0 instead of the while loop	16:18
lcuk_2	i just lock it and leave it.whats the d?	16:18
johnx	delay I think :)	16:18
lcuk_2	fairenough	16:18
*** user_ has quit IRC		16:18
johnx	yeah, delay in seconds	16:19
johnx	more busybox manuals, if you're interested: http://www.busybox.net/downloads/BusyBox.html	16:19
ccooke	... Okay, that worried me	16:20
ccooke	powerlaunch on the n810 appears to disable the lock and power button...	16:20
alterego	Cool	16:21
lcuk_2	johnx, thanks - i didnt realise everything was in one exe. makes sense though	16:22
*** user_ has joined #maemo		16:27
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo		16:28
*** user_ has quit IRC		16:33
lcuk_2	am i right in thinking i cannot set a script in /media/mmc2 to root executable because its a users' partition?	16:39
alterego	lcuk_2, no, you can't set a script in /media/mmc2 because it's a fat partition that doesn't have permissions.	16:39
alterego	The fat filesystem doesn't have the ability to set ownership or permissions on files.	16:39
lcuk_2	i knew there was a reason for it just didnt know why	16:40
* lcuk_2 will move it elsewhere		16:40
alterego	:)	16:40
alterego	Or format your drives to ext2 ;)	16:40
lcuk_2	that would be a pain unless there is an inplace shuffle	16:40
lcuk_2	and also - wouldnt that prevent me from reading them when i plug in usb on winspit	16:41
johnx	not really, there is an ext2 driver for win	16:42
*** johnx has quit IRC		16:43
*** jsmith-away is now known as jsmith		16:43
lcuk_2	yer but that depends upon adding it to every machine i could plug it into, ill just stick with simplest and move it	16:43
*** bergie has joined #maemo		16:43
*** blahdeblah has quit IRC		16:45
*** vivijim has joined #maemo		16:47
*** blahdeblah has joined #maemo		16:48
*** felipec_ has joined #maemo		16:49
lcuk_2	johnx, thanks for input. i am logging now and will process later :) while true ; do date >> /media/mmc2/toplog.txt ; top -n1 >> /media/mmc2/toplog.txt ; sleep 5 ; done	16:51
*** mikemx has joined #maemo		16:58
*** seraph1 has quit IRC		17:00
*** barisione has quit IRC		17:00
*** felipec has quit IRC		17:00
*** barisione has joined #maemo		17:00
mikemx	Seem i just trashed my n8xx with the recent rtcomm update (twice). It ended in a reboot loop and i had to flash it. Did the beta work for others?	17:02
LoCusF	mikemx: nope	17:03
GeneralAntilles	Not a bad guide to bug reporting: http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/archives/2008/01/18/the-bug-reporting-culture-10-things-to-avoid-10-things-you-must-do/	17:10
lcuk_2	GeneralAntilles, speaking of bugs, the fbreader bug was fixed and updated :)	17:14
GeneralAntilles	.8.12?	17:14
lcuk_2	yer	17:14
lcuk_2	.8.11 looping pages thing is solved in .12	17:15
GeneralAntilles	Those FBReader guys are great.	17:15
lcuk_2	yer, very responsive, and as a bonus i found out that even installing the old version from a .deb on my MMC managed to include it in the check for updates list :)	17:16
*** seraph1 has joined #maemo		17:16
lcuk_2	i was under the impression it wasnt	17:16
GeneralAntilles	Huh, interesting.	17:16
lcuk_2	yer - i uninstalled it (it was originally installed from the repo) and installed manually from the deb, so was expecting to have to uninstall and grab from repo. it wasnt needed.	17:17
lcuk_2	either that, or the uninstall first time failed to clean out everything	17:18
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC		17:18
*** gopi has joined #maemo		17:18
GeneralAntilles	I'm wondering if the fact that FBReader uses zlibrary invalidates all those portrait mode arguments about maemo.	17:18
GeneralAntilles	lcuk_2, probably not.	17:19
GeneralAntilles	I installed GPE-Sudoku through a .deb and it was in the restoration list when I updated to OS2008 final.	17:19
lcuk_2	fair enough, it must match UIDs internally	17:20
lcuk_2	rendering rotated via the zlib is quite slow for full color. i wonder if a nice monochrome reader could be made super quick (with kinetic scrolling) on maemo	17:21
GeneralAntilles	It's the LCD controller.	17:21
lcuk_2	yer but its got enough bandwidth for 25fps video at 12bit planes, lower bitplanes = less data transfer = faster updates - as long as its palette based it will work	17:22
GeneralAntilles	True enough	17:23
lcuk_2	for normal books theres no point in sending over a full color image for every frame. it just would not work well for full color html type books	17:23
*** gopi_ has joined #maemo		17:23
lcuk_2	ive just done some cpu logging on the device for when reading books and locking the device. i suspect its possibly leaving the book reader on fullscreen that is draining my battery	17:25
lcuk_2	ive logged with and without and am processing the results	17:25
GeneralAntilles	I minimize everything when I lock.	17:26
pupnik	ahh good poitn	17:27
*** seraph1 has quit IRC		17:27
lcuk_2	minimise needs me to click to make it normal, click to minimise then slide to lock. its more work than just slide to lock	17:27
*** shackan has joined #maemo		17:27
pupnik	that'd be a nice option/ feature to auto-minimize all when locking	17:27
lcuk_2	especially when sleepy	17:27
lcuk_2	yer it would	17:27
*** jegp has joined #maemo		17:28
pupnik	anyone up to making it a feature request on bugtracker?	17:28
zoran	few stylus moves could do that	17:28
lcuk_2	not yet, i will prove to myself first that it is having a noticable battery effect by leaving things fullscreen	17:28
zoran	or measuring idle time to do what some script does	17:29
GeneralAntilles	Sounds rather hard to implement, too.	17:29
lcuk_2	arent programs meant to sleep when osso tells them device is locked?	17:29
lcuk_2	maybe fbreader isnt listening for the events (because its cross platform)	17:30
zoran	the system has it's own background jobs and nothing could be as the human sees it	17:30
lcuk_2	lol @ all the programs coming out and partying once the screen goes off	17:30
*** guaka has quit IRC		17:31
lcuk_2	"thank god hes gone, woooooo hoooooooo"	17:31
*** ol_schoola has joined #maemo		17:32
*** GNUtoN810 has left #Maemo		17:34
*** Aniruddha_NL has quit IRC		17:36
*** Aniruddha_NL has joined #maemo		17:37
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC		17:39
*** gopi has quit IRC		17:39
GeneralAntilles	Like a bunch of ungrateful teenagers drinking my booze and eating my food.	17:40
lcuk_2	and scaring the neighbours and throwing rocks at police cars and partying on the beach	17:41
sp3000	lcuk_2: long home press will minimize everything	17:41
pupnik	ty sp3000	17:41
pupnik	did not know that!	17:41
lcuk_2	thanks sp3000	17:41
lcuk_2	right, im gonna redo this log now including testing the minimised everything	17:43
lcuk_2	as long as i do it right ill let you lot know later what the results are :)	17:45
*** gnuton_ has joined #maemo		17:51
*** k-s has joined #maemo		17:54
*** pleemans has quit IRC		17:54
*** tontsa has joined #maemo		17:58
*** mikemx has left #maemo		17:58
*** gnuton__ has joined #maemo		17:59
*** ijon_ has quit IRC		17:59
*** michele_ has joined #maemo		18:03
*** gnuton___ has joined #maemo		18:06
*** booiiing has quit IRC		18:06
*** gnuton has quit IRC		18:07
*** booiiing has joined #maemo		18:07
*** jackster has joined #maemo		18:10
*** gnuton_ has quit IRC		18:15
*** mankod has joined #maemo		18:18
*** trevarthan has left #maemo		18:19
*** gnuton__ has quit IRC		18:23
*** playya__ is now known as playya		18:26
*** seraph1 has joined #maemo		18:29
jackster	hmmm	18:30
jackster	anyone know if OS 2008 uses a tickless kernel?	18:30
* jackster seems to remember something about tickless kernels supposedly decreasing power consumption		18:31
*** gnuton has joined #maemo		18:32
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo		18:32
Andy80	hi all	18:32
GeneralAntilles	jackster, I want to say yes	18:32
GeneralAntilles	but I don't have a damn clue	18:32
GeneralAntilles	I'm just thinking about the power presentation that's on maemo.org	18:33
*** NetBlade has quit IRC		18:33
GeneralAntilles	http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1184097560.html	18:33
jackster	GeneralAntilles: It's just I remember this tickless kernel idea being one of the big new features in ubuntu 7.10 and figured it would be something useful for an internet tablet	18:33
GeneralAntilles	That slideshow may reveal more.	18:34
jackster	cool thanks	18:35
jackster	it seems that it supports 'Dynamic Tick' but according to that presentation they want to move to a Tickless kernel in the future	18:37
jackster	interesting	18:37
zoran	jackster, r u sure every cpu could do that?	18:37
GeneralAntilles	That's a pre-OS2008 presentation	18:38
GeneralAntilles	So that may be true now.	18:38
jackster	hmm could be	18:38
GeneralAntilles	A lot of that power stuff is related to the CPU scaling we have with OS2008 now.	18:38
jackster	zoran: that's a good question, but the presentation seemed to suggest they thought it was possible	18:38
wumpus	the power saving of tickless is really minimal, at least on x86	18:38
zoran	jackster, I recall that for new ibm chip, or whatever it is	18:39
jackster	I suppose it partly depends on how much of the energy usage of the device is by the CPU	18:40
zoran	if you ask me, the power to maintain the whole system is consuming more than cpu	18:40
jackster	yeah	18:40
jackster	still, every little helps	18:41
zoran	on bsd I recall an option to exclude power to devices not included in kernel	18:41
maddler	anyone using latest RTCOMM OS2008 beta?	18:41
zoran	so, cause I have no usb as default, no power to usb ports	18:41
GeneralAntilles	maddler, yes	18:43
GeneralAntilles	I've not noticed any difference.	18:43
GeneralAntilles	jackster, the real power hog is the backlight	18:43
GeneralAntilles	It's something like 50% of total power usage.	18:43
zoran	so, anticipating the screen output would save the power	18:44
*** ken has joined #maemo		18:44
maddler	GeneralAntilles: beside installing last update killed my device... :)	18:44
GeneralAntilles	The one from two days ago?	18:44
jackster	I suppose it depends on what the user uses their device for most, whether they have it in their pocket listening to music throguh earphones with the screen off or with the screen on watching movies all the time as to what will be the biggest power hog	18:45
zoran	hm, the usage is the goal, power saving if possible, I think	18:46
zoran	is there any difference if the device is powered down when not used?	18:47
*** djcb_ has joined #maemo		18:48
*** michele__ has joined #maemo		18:48
GeneralAntilles	zoran, do you mean, does it use less power when it's off?	18:49
*** djcb has quit IRC		18:49
maddler	GeneralAntilles: right	18:49
zoran	GA, :)	18:49
*** gnuton___ has quit IRC		18:49
GeneralAntilles	Installed fine over here, maddler.	18:50
zoran	I assume that power on/off takes some power more than at idle	18:50
GeneralAntilles	Depends on how long it's at idle.	18:50
zoran	I take it down, when I'm not using it, must to confess	18:50
michele__	maddler: killed in what way?	18:50
zoran	why should it live it's own life?	18:51
GeneralAntilles	Pfft	18:51
zoran	it's not a server as I see it	18:51
GeneralAntilles	Power cycling them all the time is definitely not the way they were designed to be used.	18:51
zoran	cheap consumer electronics	18:51
GeneralAntilles	ARM is incredibly efficient at idling.	18:51
zoran	770, btw	18:51
GeneralAntilles	Still	18:52
zoran	I liek it	18:52
GeneralAntilles	The 770's powersaving isn't as awesome as the N800's.	18:52
zoran	and cannot say a good reason to buy another one	18:52
zoran	I mostly use it as I use desktop	18:53
zoran	to ssh and handle mail	18:53
zoran	btw, gregale has no openssl front end	18:53
zoran	just libssl	18:53
*** Andy80 has quit IRC		18:53
zoran	the only thing that makes me thinking about 2007he	18:54
maddler	michele__: it will boot... and right after hands are shown, white screen and then reboot	18:54
michele__	maddler: ok, same symptoms here	18:55
maddler	even on a fresh install	18:55
maddler	:\|	18:55
zoran	maddler. looks like the shell is not found	18:55
zoran	or the root fs	18:55
michele__	maddler: now I reflashed it, haven't installed rtcomm beta and it seems to work fine	18:55
michele__	at first I tought my new SD card was failing	18:56
GeneralAntilles	Not even the crazy number of applications HE gives you?	18:56
michele__	but I've been using it all the morning	18:56
GeneralAntilles	Or the speedup? :P	18:56
zoran	GA, like what?	18:56
zoran	I like mutt, links, irssi...	18:57
zoran	and have them all	18:57
zoran	hm, speed up?	18:57
zoran	the kernel should be the same	18:57
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo		18:58
maddler	michele__: I have tried installing on a fresh install and it keeps rebooting... :(	19:02
zoran	maddler, what if you remove the memory card?	19:02
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo		19:03
maddler	the memory card?	19:03
zoran	yep	19:03
zoran	mmc or whatever	19:03
maddler	yup... just can't see the reason :)	19:03
maddler	trying anyway... :D	19:03
maddler	before a new reflash :)	19:03
*** michele_ has quit IRC		19:04
zoran	maybe you tweaked something to load from it\	19:04
*** michele__ is now known as michele_		19:04
maddler	no :)	19:04
maddler	I only installed RFCOMM on a fresh install	19:04
michele_	in fact, it worked fine until I inserted the card	19:04
zoran	battery full?	19:04
maddler	yes...	19:04
maddler	btw... it rebooted anyway...	19:05
zoran	home button pressed?	19:05
maddler	zoran: tried already :)	19:05
zoran	k	19:05
zoran	n810?	19:05
maddler	zoran: right	19:05
zoran	maybe the device has some damage	19:05
michele_	me too	19:05
zoran	what if you reflash older version?	19:06
zoran	the vanilla one	19:06
maddler	zoran: I don't really need RTCOMM beta... I can go back using pidgin after all...	19:06
*** murrayc_ has joined #maemo		19:06
zoran	make it work anyhow	19:07
*** jprieur_ has joined #maemo		19:08
* alterego likes rtcomm beta ..		19:08
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		19:08
* zoran likes blondes		19:08
*** zumbi_ has joined #maemo		19:08
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, it works fine for me.	19:09
zoran	blondes?	19:09
GeneralAntilles	Pidgin is bloaty and stupid on the tablets.	19:09
GeneralAntilles	Eats up valuable taskbar space.	19:09
zoran	im or irc?	19:09
GeneralAntilles	Well, IM.	19:09
GeneralAntilles	I use xchat for IRC.	19:09
GeneralAntilles	Since both Pidgin and rtcomm are woefully underfeatured for IRC.	19:10
zoran	irssi is low profile	19:10
GeneralAntilles	Eh, xchat works better on the tablet for me.	19:10
zoran	centericq is also low profile	19:10
maddler	I'd prefer using rtcomm instead of pidgin... but as of now I have no choice :)	19:13
GeneralAntilles	It'll be nice when it comes out of beta and Pidgin can go away entirely.	19:14
michele_	I bet there will be people that still want pidgin	19:15
GeneralAntilles	Obviously	19:15
GeneralAntilles	but not having people recommend it to new users will make me happy.	19:15
pupnik	yes me too	19:15
pupnik	i finally tried it and hated it for irc	19:15
pupnik	the ui is totally derived from the internal class structure	19:16
pupnik	which makes it logical for the programmer but useless for the IRC-wanting-to-use-user	19:16
Veggen	for me, it's not logical that IRC is IM either :)	19:17
*** philipl has quit IRC		19:17
zoran	teh same target group	19:17
GeneralAntilles	Be neat if rtcomm actually gets their IRC support up to a dedicated-IRC-client–like level.	19:17
zoran	swuiss army knife	19:17
maddler	GeneralAntilles: true	19:18
alterego	Well, it's hard to do that. As they're trying to abstract common chat functions for each protocol.	19:18
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I very much doubt it will happen	19:19
GeneralAntilles	It would just be nice.	19:19
GeneralAntilles	xchat works really well, so I'm happy.	19:19
alterego	I've not really used xchat on the device.	19:19
michele_	ok, call me dumb but I can't find it... where is xchat for os2008?	19:20
alterego	I found configuring it was a pain as the dialogs weren't completely sorted.	19:20
maddler	btw... going to reflash for the third time today... :)	19:20
alterego	Heh	19:20
*** zumbi has quit IRC		19:20
zoran	maddler, checked md5?	19:20
GeneralAntilles	http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/	19:20
michele_	thanks	19:20
*** Disconnect has quit IRC		19:20
*** Disconnect has joined #maemo		19:21
GeneralAntilles	That needs to go into Extras	19:21
*** jprieur has quit IRC		19:21
GeneralAntilles	I'm tired of pulling the link out of my ass for all comers. :P	19:21
*** disq has quit IRC		19:21
*** disq has joined #maemo		19:21
michele_	GeneralAntilles: especially since it's impossible to find on google...	19:21
GeneralAntilles	skyhusker chinook xchat	19:21
*** philipl has joined #maemo		19:21
michele_	maemo xchat gives no clue	19:22
pupnik	still a few text-input problems with the beta	19:22
GeneralAntilles	I'm tempted to put it in the topic.	19:22
michele_	and nobody will ever search for "skyhusker" :)	19:22
pupnik	also copy/paste	19:22
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, those problems are OS-related.	19:22
GeneralAntilles	They're just mildly more pronounced in xchat than anywhere else.	19:22
GeneralAntilles	tap'n'hold seems to work fine for copy/paste.	19:22
pupnik	hmm	19:23
*** pH5 has joined #maemo		19:23
pupnik	and how about pasting text into the text input field	19:23
pupnik	ctrl+v?	19:23
*** Xxaxx has joined #maemo		19:23
pupnik	for e.g. pasting text from browser into xchat	19:23
*** GAN800 has joined #maemo		19:23
*** jprieur_ is now known as jprieur		19:24
*** GAN800 has quit IRC		19:25
GeneralAntilles	vkb	19:25
pupnik	what's that	19:26
*** Disconnect has quit IRC		19:26
GeneralAntilles	Virtual keyboard	19:26
lcuk_2	gen, cant you add a rule to the chatbot so whenever anyone asks about xchat it will churp up and let them know	19:26
lcuk_2	hang on, we already have that in you :P	19:27
GeneralAntilles	cntrl-c/v also works	19:27
*** pupnik810 has joined #maemo		19:27
GeneralAntilles	That was _Monkey, lcuk_2.	19:27
GeneralAntilles	But milhouse killed him instead of fixing him. :(	19:27
pupnik810	there is no paste	19:28
GeneralAntilles	Is too.	19:28
*** Zetx has quit IRC		19:28
pupnik810	how	19:28
pupnik810	hmm	19:28
GeneralAntilles	Either the vkb or ctrl-v	19:28
lcuk_2	[ctrl] + V on 810 keyboard	19:28
pupnik810	<GeneralAntilles> That was _Monkey, lcuk_2.	19:28
GeneralAntilles	[12:26pm] <lcuk_2>gen, cant you add a rule to the chatbot so whenever anyone asks about xchat it will churp up and let them know	19:29
* lcuk_2 rolls eyes at timezones		19:29
GeneralAntilles	I am win.	19:29
pupnik810	killall: mplayer: no process killed	19:29
pupnik810	ok ty gen	19:29
*** pupnik810 has left #maemo		19:30
GeneralAntilles	Timezones are just a lie made up by The Man to keep the little guy down.	19:30
pupnik	no lcuk_2 that is too annoying	19:30
pupnik	chatbots should only respond to keyed requests	19:31
pupnik	!xchat? or ~xchat? or whatever	19:31
GeneralAntilles	Yes	19:31
GeneralAntilles	Which is how _Monkey should've been fixed.	19:31
GeneralAntilles	Triggers	19:31
lcuk_2	trigger: "i can has xchat?"	19:32
*** tontsa has left #maemo		19:32
*** barisione has quit IRC		19:34
*** Disconnect has joined #maemo		19:37
*** jackster has quit IRC		19:38
Veggen	hmmf. the n800 seems to work better, wirelesswise, than the n810. I have severe packetloss to/from n810 now.	19:38
*** truent has quit IRC		19:38
*** eton has joined #maemo		19:47
*** Raistl\|n has joined #Maemo		19:49
*** vivijim has quit IRC		19:51
*** CrashandDie has joined #maemo		19:52
*** jackster has joined #maemo		19:53
*** michele_ has quit IRC		19:56
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		19:58
Xxaxx	is it possible to use proxy with microb?	19:58
Xxaxx	http proxy	19:58
*** k-s has quit IRC		20:02
Kompo_	Xxaxx: at least if you set it by hand, via about:config	20:06
Kompo_	Xxaxx: but it'd be very surprising if there was no proxy -option in some settings somewhere. either app settings or control panel	20:07
*** jegp has left #maemo		20:07
*** jackster has quit IRC		20:07
lcuk_2	xxaxx - on os2008 in your actual connection settings (wlan at least) you can specify a proxy for the entire connection	20:08
*** sxpert_ has quit IRC		20:09
lcuk_2	if you edit the connection and walk through the wizard settings dialog on the last page there is an advanced button. in there is the proxy settings	20:09
Xxaxx	done it via about:config	20:09
lcuk_2	fairymuff	20:09
Xxaxx	thanks everyone	20:09
lcuk_2	s/fairy/furry/	20:10
infobot	lcuk_2 meant: furrymuff	20:10
*** sxpert has joined #maemo		20:10
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo		20:12
*** Dregz has quit IRC		20:12
*** philipl has quit IRC		20:24
*** GNUro has joined #maemo		20:26
*** murrayc_ has quit IRC		20:27
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC		20:29
pupnik	"arbitrary hardware upscaling is available through XV extension API on N800 (which is used by SDL for YUV format surfaces)" -Serge .... wtf... i need docs/examples on that	20:32
*** ha1f has joined #maemo		20:37
lcuk_2	doesn't mplayer use xv	20:37
pupnik	i'll have to look at this	20:37
lcuk_2	its certainly indicated in the long thread discussion thing, though i have not read the source so dont know	20:38
pupnik	still can't unpack the chinook vmware sdk	20:38
lcuk_2	http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine?do=post_view;post=19711;list=maemo	20:38
lcuk_2	whats wrong with it?	20:38
pupnik	looks like i need more than 5.3GB	20:38
*** truent has joined #maemo		20:38
pupnik	do you have the .vmdk? how big is it?	20:38
lcuk_2	5.31 GB (5,705,170,944 bytes)	20:39
pupnik	ty verymuch	20:39
lcuk_2	though it gets modified by use (i think)	20:39
lcuk_2	have you got both 7z parts	20:40
pupnik	yes i had just a bit too little space	20:40
lcuk_2	ahhh	20:41
lcuk_2	thanks as well... i just checked and ive got 1gb free on my media drive	20:41
* lcuk_2 does some spring cleaning		20:42
*** n6hgg has joined #maemo		20:42
* pupnik has been cleaning for 4 hours :/		20:42
lcuk_2	once i have been running the vmware image i cannot restore it to original state without re-extracting it can i	20:42
pupnik	you can take snapshots and use vmware to make diffs	20:43
lcuk_2	i normally just go and find all the zips and raas and cull them	20:43
pupnik	so then vmware loads an original, then apples the diff to the filesystem	20:43
lcuk_2	nahhh, simpler to just wipe and re-extract	20:43
*** Raistl\|n has quit IRC		20:43
pupnik	how much free space does the vmdk have?	20:43
*** thopieka1 has joined #maemo		20:43
lcuk_2	dunno, but would expect it to expand if needbe	20:44
pupnik	i.e. will i need to grow the filesystem a lot?	20:44
pupnik	ah well sh...	20:44
*** thopieka1 has quit IRC		20:44
lcuk_2	cull doctor who or futurama?	20:44
pupnik	hehehe	20:45
lcuk_2	thats better, 20g free :)	20:49
*** leandroal has joined #maemo		20:50
pupnik	i find that these small files on a big filesystem really waste space	20:50
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		20:50
lcuk_2	19GB in 9minutes	20:50
pupnik	so tarring those rarely used directories of tinyfiles really saves space	20:50
pupnik	nice	20:50
lcuk_2	i wrote a (windows) program which dives into the folders and sorts by size and lets me cull what i need	20:50
* GeneralAntilles needs more hard drives.		20:51
lcuk_2	not surprisingly the first time i ran it, i had stuff like docs/old/older/old2/old/oldhol/debiansarge.dvd.iso	20:51
GeneralAntilles	Space is such a fleeting thing.	20:51
pupnik	any preferences on 500-750GB drives?	20:52
lcuk_2	yer, lots of them ;)	20:52
GeneralAntilles	500gb seems to be the sweet spot right now.	20:52
*** fab has quit IRC		20:52
GeneralAntilles	The next question is if drive-slots are a limiting factor. ;)	20:52
lcuk_2	ive not bothered to get anything bigger than the latest 250g media drive	20:52
* lcuk_2 ran out of ide slots		20:53
GeneralAntilles	I just dumped two drives into an external Firewire 800 enclosure.	20:53
GeneralAntilles	I need to pick up another 2 500GB-ers whenever I get some money to throw around.	20:53
* lcuk_2 gets a net and waits near GeneralAntilles		20:54
* GeneralAntilles uses a credit card instead.		20:54
lcuk_2	you cant catch much money with a credit card, its too small	20:54
lcuk_2	unless its one of those comical huge ones	20:54
*** GNUro has quit IRC		20:55
melmoth	i would like to get the word that match a click on a textview.	20:56
melmoth	I can get the textbuffer line, the text from this line up to the tapping point.	20:56
melmoth	but i do not know how to get the whole line...So i do not know how to detect wich word has been tapped.	20:56
melmoth	any idea ?	20:56
lcuk_2	which language?	20:57
melmoth	python.	20:57
melmoth	i do not find such a method in gtk.	20:57
* melmoth have been browsing http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/class-gtktextbuffer.html for a while now.		20:58
*** tomv has joined #maemo		20:58
*** shackan has quit IRC		20:58
*** rgriffi1 has joined #maemo		21:00
lcuk_2	cant you just look at the selection text?	21:00
lcuk_2	gtk.TextBuffer.get_selection_bounds	21:01
melmoth	the selected text may be another.	21:01
rgriffi1	anyone have info on connecting a serial console to an N800? I believe there are solder pads in place, but I'm not sure which is which as far as Tx, Rx and Gnd.	21:02
melmoth	It s not an editor, so say line 5 could be selected (a full line is always selected); but the tapping may happen on line 6.	21:02
melmoth	and this will not change the selection whatsohever (and i would like to keep it this way)	21:02
*** fab has joined #maemo		21:03
*** lele_ has joined #maemo		21:04
lcuk_2	dunno then, but are you manaually changing the selection to enforce whole line selection (or is this a standard mode)	21:05
melmoth	i set the selection myself.	21:06
tomv	say, is the ogs library mentioned in the maemo tutorial (libogs/ogs.h) available somewhere?	21:06
lcuk_2	then if you are manually setting the selection cant you read and remember the current selection (which will come from the user tap) before enforcing your whole line	21:07
*** shackan has joined #maemo		21:08
* lcuk_2 has been told he has to go shopping...		21:09
* lcuk_2 is under the thumb		21:09
lcuk_2	cyas later	21:10
melmoth	hmm, using mark_set may be an idea :) thanks.	21:10
*** l7_ has joined #maemo		21:10
*** rdorsch has quit IRC		21:11
Blafasel	Hmm. Still being a stupid new user: How do I enable the red pill mode? I found the tutorials, but they talk about an "Applications Catalogue" app that I don't see. Application manager, yes, but that doesn't offer a "New" button	21:11
*** jackster has joined #maemo		21:12
pupnik	Blafasel: i do not recommend red pill mode	21:12
pupnik	Blafasel: what do you want to do?	21:12
Blafasel	pupnik: So how do you install other packages? apt?	21:12
Blafasel	I can drop to the shell, but why?	21:12
pupnik	The easiest way is to go to a website and click on the .install file (green arrow)	21:13
pupnik	this will add the required repository	21:13
pupnik	but be careful to not add duplicate repositories (duplicates are currently a problem)	21:13
Blafasel	Any idea where I get wifi tools (aircrack et all) or openssh?	21:13
*** frade has quit IRC		21:13
pupnik	poitn your browser to http://www.gronmayer.com/it and you will find em	21:14
pupnik	openssh is in the maemo extras repository iirc	21:14
*** rdorsch has joined #maemo		21:15
Blafasel	Thank you	21:16
pupnik	blah, 3.4 GB of optimized 770 videos and then ssvb makes mplayer more powerful	21:18
*** felipec_ is now known as felipec		21:19
GeneralAntilles	http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org pupnik. ;)	21:22
*** timely has quit IRC		21:27
*** Tuco1 has joined #maemo		21:33
*** Tuco1 is now known as Tuco		21:33
*** Zic has quit IRC		21:33
*** lele_ has quit IRC		21:33
*** pcfe has quit IRC		21:45
*** timelyx has joined #maemo		21:46
*** leandroal has quit IRC		21:46
*** p\| has joined #maemo		21:47
*** Xamusk has joined #maemo		21:58
Xamusk	hi	21:58
*** jackster has quit IRC		22:00
*** VimSi has joined #maemo		22:09
*** vims0r has quit IRC		22:11
*** thoughtfix has quit IRC		22:11
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo		22:32
Andy80	does maemo mapper work with n810 internal gps?	22:33
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	22:33
Andy80	uhm.... I cannot make it work...	22:34
GeneralAntilles	Use bluetooth with no MAC	22:34
*** Sargun has quit IRC		22:36
*** ch4os_ has quit IRC		22:37
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC		22:37
BuSyAnToS	to become root on n810 gainroot as usual?	22:37
*** a-l-p-h-a has quit IRC		22:37
Xamusk	what can the n8x0's webcam be used for?	22:37
Andy80	ok, I try	22:37
*** [1]a-l-p-h-a has joined #maemo		22:38
Xamusk	can it be used with msn or skype or something like that?	22:38
*** guardian has joined #maemo		22:38
Xamusk	I heard it can only be used to talk with other n800	22:39
GeneralAntilles	Not currently, Xamusk.	22:39
GeneralAntilles	and through Gizmo	22:39
Xamusk	oh	22:39
Xamusk	only those two?	22:39
Andy80	gizmo and gtalk	22:39
GeneralAntilles	Skype will be along soon enough	22:39
*** fri has quit IRC		22:40
Andy80	skype says we have not enough processing power for that....	22:40
*** ywwg has joined #maemo		22:41
Xamusk	o_O	22:41
Xamusk	skype took years to support webcam in linux	22:41
Xamusk	and it's still beta now	22:41
ywwg	what's the best way to debug the "incompatible application package" error from the app manager, when dpkg -i works just fine?	22:41
*** l7_ has quit IRC		22:42
Xamusk	can we at least take photos with the webcam?	22:43
*** SpacePope has quit IRC		22:44
inz	ywwg, dpkg -f <packagename> Section	22:44
inz	ywwg, if that gives you something not starting with user/ then you should change deibian/control and define one that has user/ prefix	22:45
ywwg	inz: that must be it, I have it set to "unknown"	22:45
*** Andy80 has quit IRC		22:45
*** guardian has quit IRC		22:46
GeneralAntilles	Yes, Xamusk.	22:47
*** skibur has joined #maemo		22:47
* lcuk_2 looks like he is in a dark snowstorm in all his 810 webcam pics		22:47
Xamusk	usually pda pics are very low quality	22:48
GeneralAntilles	Yes, they are.	22:48
GeneralAntilles	You should get some sunlight sometime, lcuk_2. :P	22:49
lcuk_2	oh no, its perfect quality. i still havent found anything to get rid of this dandruff	22:49
lcuk_2	the pics are on par with the sensor i had on my old webcam	22:50
lcuk_2	has anyone tried generic webcam in usb hostOTG mode?	22:50
*** hein2 has joined #maemo		22:51
*** Sho_ has quit IRC		22:51
GeneralAntilles	Xamusk, the webcam is kinda a write-off	22:52
GeneralAntilles	I wouldn't put much thought into it.	22:52
*** hein2 is now known as Sho_		22:53
Xamusk	that's why I have a separate digital camera... embedded cameras in anything that's not primarily a camera is usually bad	22:53
GeneralAntilles	Digitals are stupid cheap these days	22:54
GeneralAntilles	You can get a kickass Canon medium-body for $150	22:54
lcuk_2	tbh though, its not a seperate cam ppl want - they see it has a web cam and they see the device supports skype. i know i put 2+2 together and expected skype video	22:55
* lcuk_2 thinks the 8x0 is a collision of minds. some of the best things are coupled with some cheap stocking fillers which give a varied performance.		22:55
lcuk_2	some days i find it awesome and i still look at it and think "wow". other times i think "how could nokia be so stupid"	22:56
GeneralAntilles	Ehehe, the wonders of large corporate bodies.	22:56
Xamusk	maybe the problem is the os	22:57
lcuk_2	yer its hte same with any large corp, but then again thats what riles me about nokia - i got this device because it was under the n series which are really nice rounded devices. this is just less thought out.	22:57
Xamusk	unfortunately, linux is very crude sometimes	22:57
GeneralAntilles	Good news is that you're more than welcome to jump in and improve things!	22:58
lcuk_2	nahhh, linux rocks. its constantly surprising me and im loving actually getting my hands into it	22:58
Xamusk	the n series phones are symbian based, as far as I know	22:58
Xamusk	what is really driving me to nokia is that the newer devices support python :D	22:59
GeneralAntilles	Be interesting to see maemo move into the smartphone space	22:59
lcuk_2	my nits about the 810 aren't software though (apart from powervr), its things like the camera or the positioning of the keys	22:59
lcuk_2	i know software can be tailored, i cant just hardhack myself a tab key	22:59
*** bergie has quit IRC		23:00
Xamusk	what I found interesting is that the OS itself is being updated and the N800 already can have the OS2008	23:01
lcuk_2	i could however get a cradle around the 810 which gives joypad keys oin both sides...	23:01
GeneralAntilles	Xamusk, an N810 is just an N800 with GPS and a keyboard.	23:01
*** lele_ has joined #maemo		23:01
Xamusk	indeed	23:01
Xamusk	but the keyboard really was a good idea	23:02
hugolp	GeneralAntilles: with one memory space less and a higher price	23:02
lcuk_2	i thought the memory on 800 and 810 were slightly different and no amount of OS changes can adjust that (which is why an 810 will actually out perform an 800)	23:02
GeneralAntilles	Right.	23:02
Xamusk	but then, n810 doesn't have a normal sd slot	23:02
*** Zword has joined #maemo		23:02
Xamusk	which was not a good idea for a pda	23:03
hugolp	Have anyone found the N810 usefull?	23:03
GeneralAntilles	No, lcuk_2.	23:03
lcuk_2	its not got 2 normal slots...	23:03
Xamusk	micro-sd is good for cell phones, not for pdas	23:03
GeneralAntilles	Just the soldered-on SD card. :P	23:03
lcuk_2	its got one abnormal one	23:03
GeneralAntilles	minisd	23:03
GeneralAntilles	I'd say the N810 is better for mobile blogging	23:03
GeneralAntilles	with the keyboard and transflective	23:03
Xamusk	hugolp, some people love the N810	23:03
Xamusk	isn't the N800 trasflective?	23:04
hugolp	Xamusk: Im genuily asking	23:04
GeneralAntilles	No, Xamusk.	23:04
hugolp	I mean, my opinion is that it wont, but have never tried so I cant really say, but Im interested on hearing opinions about the keyboard cause Im curious wheter its usefull or not	23:04
Xamusk	hugolp, I mean, two days ago there was someone here that said the 810 was a huge leap from 800	23:04
GeneralAntilles	They're nuts. ;)	23:05
GeneralAntilles	hugolp, the keyboard and size are probably the two biggest selling points.	23:05
Xamusk	GeneralAntilles, does it make much difference for e-book reading?	23:05
hugolp	Xamusk: he probably owned a N810 and not a N800 XD	23:05
GeneralAntilles	Some people just can't handle touchscreen keyboards.	23:05
Xamusk	hugolp, he said he owned both	23:05
GeneralAntilles	No, Xamusk.	23:05
GeneralAntilles	Only in full sunlight. ;)	23:05
lcuk_2	1 minor question: if the 800 supports both os2007 and os2008, why (since the devices are the same) can i not put os2007 on an 810?	23:05
lcuk_2	or can i?	23:05
Xamusk	damn	23:05
Xamusk	anyway, I won't have my N8x0 until I find some way to ship one to here	23:06
hugolp	lcuk_2: maybe the OS2007 is lacking some drivers needed for the N810 (Im just guessing)	23:06
hugolp	anyway why would you want OS2007? OS2008 is a big improvement	23:06
lcuk_2	still more software for 2007 isnt there	23:07
lcuk_2	it was just hypothetical	23:07
GeneralAntilles	You can, lcuk_2.	23:07
*** eber_ has quit IRC		23:07
hugolp	lcuk_2: its all coming to OS2008, the software I mean	23:07
GeneralAntilles	You'd have to explode the FIASCO image and flash each part individually.	23:07
lcuk_2	lol hug, i know that	23:07
lcuk_2	GeneralAntilles, is that just hardware code identifiers stopping it then	23:08
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		23:08
hugolp	lubyou: XD I mean that is coming quick	23:08
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	23:08
melmoth	lcuk_2: the word selection worked :) thanks for the tip.	23:08
GeneralAntilles	basically, yeah, lcuk_2.	23:08
lubyou	high five	23:09
lcuk_2	its only coming as long as the devs can compile it up.	23:09
lcuk_2	melmoth, thats good to hear :)	23:09
melmoth	in fact, i was only coloring a line, not selecting it..and i always put the insert mark and the end of selection mark at the same place,so there was never a selection.	23:10
lcuk_2	that comment i just made about a wrapper around the 810 (so it gains controls around the screen) would be a great project to try	23:11
melmoth	This was because i try to make a touch scrolling stuff, that did not work well when there was text selection on top of that.	23:11
*** behdad has joined #maemo		23:11
melmoth	it s still not perfect...i wonder if somebody knows of a gtk project (preferabilly in python) with a textview and a scroll 'on touch' feature.	23:12
lcuk_2	mel, kinetic scrolling directly in gtk cant be too quick is it?	23:12
melmoth	its a bit slow, indeed.	23:12
melmoth	I m not happy at all with the result, but i do not know how to improve the speed.	23:12
lcuk_2	start here: dunno about any of them: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=kinetic+scrolling+gtk+widget&btnG=Google+Search&meta=	23:12
*** akv has quit IRC		23:12
melmoth	cheers	23:12
lcuk_2	i remember looking though	23:13
*** wazquis has joined #maemo		23:13
GeneralAntilles	Take a look at mauku, maybe?	23:13
*** n6hgg has quit IRC		23:13
*** wazquis is now known as akv		23:14
melmoth	Ohh, yeah, i did forgot about the tony maro stuff, i though it was based on pygame.but no it s gtk.	23:14
lcuk_2	:) i just noticed that and there is source	23:14
lcuk_2	maybe a good place to start and learn from	23:14
* lcuk_2 loves linux for this power. standing on the shoulders of your peers to reach for the stars		23:15
lcuk_2	s/linux/open source/	23:15
lcuk_2	hmm	23:16
lcuk_2	is the bot missing or is it not transfering	23:16
GeneralAntilles	Do it right.	23:16
GeneralAntilles	s/right/correctly/	23:16
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Do it correctly.	23:16
lcuk_2	loli did it the same	23:16
lcuk_2	s/loli/lol i/	23:17
infobot	lcuk_2 meant: lol i did it the same	23:17
lcuk_2	i think it was because i actioned myself	23:17
GeneralAntilles	Yes, that would be correct.	23:17
*** alex-weej has quit IRC		23:19
lcuk_2	is it bad form to post links which make you spit coke onto keyboard?	23:19
GeneralAntilles	Sweet tea in this case, but shoot.	23:20
lcuk_2	http://www.break.com/index/belly-dancer-hilarious-accident.html	23:20
lcuk_2	and on that note i will vanish. beer and movies await	23:21
GeneralAntilles	Ouch	23:21
GeneralAntilles	Why do people have cameras on when they're doing shit like that?	23:21
*** behdad has quit IRC		23:21
glass	whats the point of showing off your ass/tits if the camera is not on?	23:23
*** tomv has quit IRC		23:23
GeneralAntilles	For the more dedicated voyeurs. :P	23:24
*** zodman has joined #maemo		23:26
*** thopieka1 has joined #maemo		23:31
*** mankod has quit IRC		23:33
*** wwp has quit IRC		23:36
*** wwp has joined #maemo		23:37
*** thopieka1 has left #maemo		23:37
*** spirytusick has joined #maemo		23:41
*** vims0r has joined #maemo		23:44
*** VimSi has quit IRC		23:46
*** toddkoym has joined #maemo		23:50
*** toddkoym has quit IRC		23:54
*** jackster has joined #maemo		23:55
*** tubtub has joined #maemo		23:55
tubtub	Hi all. i love the n810. It does so much, I am using it on this list now.	23:58

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!