| Igg-man | kaltsi: does it overwrite the file? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kaltsi | igg-man what's your OS.. OS2008 or 2007? | 00:00 |
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| Igg-man | 2007 at the moment | 00:00 |
| alterego | kaltsi, have you actually looked at the sources.list file? | 00:00 |
| kaltsi | alterego of course | 00:00 |
| alterego | kaltsi, the application manager is _not_ a front end to it. | 00:00 |
| kaltsi | ahem | 00:00 |
| alterego | My sources.list file is completely empty. | 00:00 |
| kaltsi | igg-man you should not switch to chinook.. it's for OS2008 | 00:00 |
| kaltsi | alterego do you have a sources.list.d directory there? | 00:01 |
| Igg-man | kaltsi: Do I just need to s/bora/chinook to switch? | 00:01 |
| alterego | Yup | 00:01 |
| kaltsi | igg-man: no you need to reflash the device with the new operating system | 00:01 |
| Igg-man | argh, okay | 00:01 |
| kaltsi | alterego ok and under that there is a hildon-something which is a sources.list too | 00:01 |
| Igg-man | So I need to go download that from Nokia's site? | 00:01 |
| kaltsi | igg-man yes but it's not officially available yet | 00:01 |
| Igg-man | I think I read that they don't have it up for n800 users | 00:01 |
| alterego | kaltsi, yes. But it's not sources.list is it | 00:02 |
| Atarii | Igg-man http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/ | 00:02 |
| alterego | And application manager doesn't touch sources.list does it. | 00:02 |
| kaltsi | alterego it is.. and if you create a /etc/apt/sources.list the appmanager will also understand that somehow | 00:02 |
| alterego | -_- | 00:02 |
| Igg-man | atarii: Sweet, I like that | 00:02 |
| alterego | No, it's a completely different file kaltsi | 00:02 |
| alterego | What kind of crack are you smoking. | 00:03 |
| kaltsi | in os2008 the appmanager does not touch /etc/apt/sources.list but the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-something | 00:03 |
| alterego | And? | 00:03 |
| _Monkey | And is it still recommended to go into "red pill" mode on the n800? | 00:03 |
| Atarii | Igg-man from your n800 your can click the title of each repository and it will install it | 00:03 |
| alterego | _Monkey forget and | 00:03 |
| _Monkey | alterego: I forgot and | 00:03 |
| Igg-man | I think I'm just going to try running n800 with the boro | 00:03 |
| alterego | _Monkey and is <reply> | 00:03 |
| _Monkey | OK, alterego. | 00:03 |
| Atarii | alterego does monkey learn stuff all the time from what people say? | 00:03 |
| alterego | Atarii, yeah | 00:04 |
| alterego | It's annoying :P | 00:04 |
| kaltsi | that hildon-application-manager.list at least for me looks exactly like a sources.list file | 00:04 |
| konttori | trevarthan: I seem t be having trouble with kagu | 00:04 |
| konttori | (in case you are around) | 00:04 |
| alterego | kaltsi, you're completely missing the point. You said the application manager was a front end for sources.list file. No, it's not. | 00:04 |
| Atarii | yea, all u seem to be doin is deleting monkey's ramblings | 00:04 |
| disq | konttori: #kagu is a better place :) | 00:05 |
| trevarthan | yeah, hop over konttori | 00:05 |
| Atarii | konttori are you still working on UKMP? | 00:05 |
| kaltsi | alterego yes I said it modifies sources.list which was wrong :) but I said it's a front end to apt-get | 00:05 |
| alterego | kaltsi, just because some other file some other place that is changed by application manager _looks_ like sources.list. Doesn't mean it is that file. | 00:05 |
| alterego | It's not like they're symlinked is it .. | 00:05 |
| kaltsi | bah now you're missing the point :) | 00:06 |
| alterego | Whatever. | 00:06 |
| alterego | This conversation is pointless. | 00:06 |
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| kaltsi | which os are you running alterego.. I already forgot 2007/8 ? | 00:06 |
| alterego | 14m's till my SDK is back up :/ | 00:06 |
| alterego | I'm running 2006/7/8 | 00:07 |
| konttori | Atarii: yeah, whenever I have the time | 00:07 |
| alterego | 2.2, 3.2, 4.0 | 00:07 |
| konttori | Just put it to chinook extras | 00:07 |
| kaltsi | cool | 00:07 |
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| konttori | can anyone with n810 try installing it from here: https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ukmp/ | 00:08 |
| kaltsi | alterego if you want to know what I was talking about, just create yourself a file /etc/apt/sources.list and put some repository there (that you don't already have).. then open the app manager | 00:08 |
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| alterego | kaltsi, the sources.list file is there. It's just empty. | 00:09 |
| alterego | And I'm not denying it has an effect on the system. | 00:09 |
| shackan | konttori: could you anticipate if os2008 includes OProfile support by default? | 00:10 |
| shackan | (since chinhook comes with oprofile-viewer...) | 00:10 |
| konttori | no idea, sorry | 00:10 |
| kaltsi | shackan by default no | 00:11 |
| shackan | kaltsi: uh, so I'll have to rebuild the kernel? :( | 00:11 |
| kaltsi | shackan but the SDK repository has an oprofile enabled kernel that you can install.. read the tools documentation from maemo.org | 00:11 |
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| shackan | kaltsi: oh, GREAT | 00:11 |
| kaltsi | http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/oprofile | 00:12 |
| shackan | kaltsi: thanks, sorry for not stfw | 00:13 |
| kaltsi | hehe :) | 00:13 |
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| * alterego yawns | 00:14 | |
| alterego | Next time I'm not going to break my install by installing the latest SVN of hildon-desktop .. | 00:14 |
| Igg-man | Is os2008 going to be "offically" released for the n800? | 00:14 |
| kaltsi | igg-man: yes | 00:14 |
| Igg-man | Cool | 00:15 |
| alterego | I think I'll setup a new target maemo-svn-i386 for my pissing around. | 00:15 |
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| alterego | I'll attempt to compile the desktop from scratch. That'll be interesting. | 00:15 |
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| * alterego wonders if the N810 will be available in UK tomorrow. | 00:34 | |
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| Igg-man | atarii: My packages seem to install good now. Thanks | 00:34 |
| pupnik | the SDK repository has an oprofile enabled kernel | 00:35 |
| pupnik | that is interesting | 00:35 |
| alterego | pupnik, sort out your python stuff? | 00:36 |
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| pupnik | still trying to decide whether or not to release it | 00:36 |
| pupnik | yes | 00:36 |
| alterego | What is it? | 00:36 |
| pupnik | dosbox launcher in pygtk | 00:36 |
| alterego | Ah | 00:36 |
| alterego | Of course :) | 00:36 |
| alterego | Sounds like a good idea. | 00:37 |
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| pupnik | yeah it'll launch a game with three stylus taps | 00:37 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:37 |
| alterego | I managed to get desktop plugins working. People can now use Ruby to code home plugins, status bar plugins and task navigator plugins. | 00:37 |
| pupnik | that's really cool | 00:38 |
| elb | word to ruby | 00:38 |
| pupnik | how much system space does a ruby install take up? | 00:38 |
| alterego | I'm gonna start making mini-howtos and posting them on my new maemo blog. | 00:38 |
| alterego | ~7M | 00:38 |
| pupnik | a basic python 2.5 takes over 8 M | 00:38 |
| pupnik | k | 00:39 |
| alterego | I'm looking into trimming it down. | 00:39 |
| alterego | I might split up the core and stdlib | 00:39 |
| alterego | So people have the option of installing the stdlib | 00:39 |
| alterego | I might also work on an embedded gem system. Which would work good on the tablets. | 00:40 |
| pupnik | what is gem system? | 00:41 |
| alterego | That'd stop the need for any of the stdlib and programs could get the specific libraries they need. | 00:41 |
| alterego | It's kind of like cpan for ruby | 00:41 |
| alterego | Unfortunately the current rubygems used in desktop installs doesn't work very well in small devices :/ | 00:41 |
| elb | gems are roughly equivalent to eggs | 00:45 |
| alterego | You can't make an omlette with eggs | 00:48 |
| alterego | s/eggs/gems | 00:48 |
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| alterego | Oops | 01:18 |
| alterego | Anyone know where the microb compilation instructions are? | 01:18 |
| doublec | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/build_howto.html | 01:21 |
| alterego | Thanks :) | 01:21 |
| alterego | Hmm .. Guess it's broken on chinook then, | 01:23 |
| doublec | this might help too: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2152 | 01:23 |
| alterego | Oh great thanks :) | 01:25 |
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| YHYHIAMHERE | could anyone tell me were i could download libgcrypt11 (>=1.2.2) deb as i can use repositrys | 01:36 |
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| pupnik | repositories? | 01:42 |
| _Monkey | repositories is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php | 01:42 |
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| * alterego whistles a little to distract attention from what he's actually doing. | 01:46 | |
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| alterego | (that's right .. No one suspects .. ) | 01:48 |
| YHYHIAMHERE | sorry but my application manager isint working it freezes so i have to download the .deb files manually iam looking for a couple to run pidgin | 01:51 |
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| pupnik | you can use wget, if you know the repository and directory | 01:54 |
| alterego | Bargain .. | 01:55 |
| alterego | ruby-maemo now has vte and (hopefully) gtkmozembed | 01:56 |
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| * alterego contemplates home plugin browser widget | 01:56 | |
| alterego | I've also added a stub for gtkglext ;) | 01:56 |
| alterego | Just in case ^_^ | 01:57 |
| alterego | Well .. The next item on my todo list is a proper dbus implementation .. That's going to take quite some time me thinks. | 02:00 |
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| Atarii | just to confirm does a normal size SD card work in the 770? | 02:12 |
| pupnik | no, rs-mmc only | 02:13 |
| lophyte- | anyone know if I can use sbrshd on the n800 without the maemo sdk rootfs on the device? | 02:14 |
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| lophyte | or.. is it possible to boot the maemo sdk rootfs from mmc? | 02:31 |
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| alterego | Possible, yes. | 02:32 |
| alterego | Not sure if anyone has done it though. | 02:32 |
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| lophyte | hrm... | 02:34 |
| lophyte | seems like that'd be more work than sbrshd | 02:34 |
| alterego | Probably | 02:35 |
| lophyte | hrm, alright | 02:38 |
| lophyte | this howto seems to imply that I need to use maemo sdk on my n800 to use sbrshd or something | 02:38 |
| lophyte | actually it doesn't imply it.. it explicitly states it | 02:39 |
| lophyte | prerequisites "Device flashed with the maemo developer rootfs" | 02:39 |
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| YHYHIAMHERE | download the right deb pack (libgcrypt11) wen i try to install system says incompatable app package | 02:40 |
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| YHYHIAMHERE | do i need to install via xterm | 02:40 |
| pupnik | dpkg -i <packagename> will install it | 02:43 |
| YHYHIAMHERE | ok can i install from mmc | 02:44 |
| YHYHIAMHERE | with that | 02:44 |
| pupnik | yes, it does not matter where the .deb package is stored | 02:44 |
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| YHYHIAMHERE | new to linux how to i point to mmc iam used to dos (terrible) | 02:45 |
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| pupnik | you can type the path in the file specification | 02:46 |
| pupnik | for e.g. | 02:46 |
| pupnik | dpkg -i /media/mmc1/mypackagename.deb | 02:46 |
| YHYHIAMHERE | thanks brv | 02:47 |
| pupnik | we might be able to fix your application manager freezes also, if you have a shell open | 02:47 |
| pupnik | you need to do that as user "root" | 02:47 |
| YHYHIAMHERE | yhyh i do | 02:47 |
| pupnik | ok as root, type "apt-get update" and report any errors it gives | 02:47 |
| unique311_ | keesj, around? | 02:48 |
| pupnik | last seen 10 hours ago | 02:48 |
| unique311_ | !seen keesj | 02:48 |
| unique311_ | whats the command for that | 02:48 |
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| unique311_ | 10 hours i think i the last time i spoke to him. | 02:49 |
| pupnik | i was logged on, so i just did a /lastlog keesj | 02:49 |
| unique311_ | k | 02:50 |
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| unique311 | flashed 3 different OS this morning. poky, angstrom, and mamona. | 02:52 |
| pupnik | did you like any of them? | 02:53 |
| unique311 | angtrom to user setup, no touchscreen | 02:53 |
| unique311 | poky, had issues with the touchscreen. had to press really hard. | 02:53 |
| unique311 | which i didn't like. | 02:53 |
| alterego | What device? | 02:54 |
| lophyte | has anyone here used cpu transparency with sbrshd? | 02:54 |
| unique311 | n800 | 02:54 |
| unique311 | now the one with potential. | 02:54 |
| unique311 | was mamona. | 02:54 |
| unique311 | wow | 02:54 |
| zerojay | Details. | 02:54 |
| unique311 | but seems like you have to setup everything via usbnet | 02:54 |
| alterego | lophyte, why do you want cputransp? | 02:55 |
| unique311 | and my knowledge of terminal is ok, not that good | 02:55 |
| lophyte | eh, good point.. I guess I can just ssh into the n800 and it'd do the same thing | 02:55 |
| pupnik | unique311: does mamona have wifi support? | 02:55 |
| unique311 | was shocked to see the background wallpaper animation working. | 02:55 |
| unique311 | i think all of this need to be setup via usbnet | 02:56 |
| alterego | lophyte, what are you trying to do? | 02:56 |
| unique311 | which is the only input method available | 02:56 |
| pupnik | ok | 02:56 |
| lophyte | play around with n800 development on the device itself | 02:57 |
| unique311 | keesj was saying the blackbox keyboard could also be use. | 02:57 |
| lophyte | and I'm only using python so I don't think cpu transparency is an issue since its python | 02:57 |
| pupnik | unique311: can you install ITOS debian files on those? | 02:58 |
| unique311 | should be. But mamona has its own repo. but i'm going to try all this today | 02:59 |
| unique311 | tonight* | 02:59 |
| unique311 | turkey homicide day 2morrow, i have plenty of time tonight. | 02:59 |
| unique311 | tueday | 03:00 |
| unique311 | s | 03:01 |
| alterego | lophyte, you want to develop python apps on your main development machine but watch them execute on your device? | 03:01 |
| zerojay | Just need ssh for that. | 03:01 |
| lophyte | yeah | 03:01 |
| alterego | ssh and sshfs :) | 03:01 |
| * alterego tweaks the build system. | 03:01 | |
| lophyte | good point | 03:02 |
| alterego | ruby-maemo 0.4.0 is a good next release I think. | 03:02 |
| alterego | I'm pretty proud of it :) | 03:02 |
| alterego | rsvg, gtkmozembed, vte, cairo hildon-desktop plugins (home, status, navigator) | 03:03 |
| alterego | If only I could get the sucker to build ^_^ | 03:03 |
| alterego | My global build script keeps burning up. | 03:03 |
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| pupnik | it's going to be kitten homicide here soon if nokia.de doesn't start carrying the N810 | 03:07 |
| alterego | Hah | 03:07 |
| alterego | As long as I get it before sept I'm happy. | 03:07 |
| alterego | December sorry .. | 03:08 |
| alterego | Think I've fixed it .. | 03:11 |
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| * alterego watches as the magickal compilation process unfolds. | 03:14 | |
| alterego | built! :) | 03:16 |
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| lophyte | ls | 03:21 |
| lophyte | oops wrong window | 03:21 |
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| alterego | Zap | 03:23 |
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| YHYHIAMHERE | installing libopencdk8 under xterm it errors saying dependancy error | 03:30 |
| pupnik | that usually means you have to install something else first | 03:32 |
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| pupnik | dpkg-status? | 03:32 |
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| YHYHIAMHERE | hold on | 03:37 |
| YHYHIAMHERE | tryin again | 03:37 |
| alterego | I forgot to add the plugin loader &_& | 03:42 |
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| pupnik | is there any way to prevent the Open file dialog from scanning subdirectories? I am irritated by having to wait 3-9 seconds whenever i drill down into a subdirectory (nokia 770 on mmc with default kernel) | 04:01 |
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| zerojay | No. | 04:17 |
| l7 | :\ | 04:19 |
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| lopz | hola :P | 04:37 |
| Maemotth | Haha finally got pidgin working starting to understand how this all works thanks guys | 04:39 |
| Radar | grats | 04:40 |
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| pupnik | this launcher will take 160kb vs 8+MB for the python version | 04:49 |
| woekele | is klaatu a regular here? | 04:50 |
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| pupnik | no | 05:10 |
| woekele | :< | 05:10 |
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| Syntra | Heck yes | 05:40 |
| Syntra | Ordered a Refurbed Apple Wireless Keyboard from Apple | 05:40 |
| Syntra | :D | 05:41 |
| pupnik | i hate it when after 12 hours the code starts to jiggle and twitch in front of my eyes | 05:42 |
| Syntra | Uhh, I think you might need a break? | 05:42 |
| pupnik | don't know when i'll be motivated to work on this again though | 05:45 |
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| lophyte | where is this ' | 05:55 |
| lophyte | err | 05:55 |
| lophyte | where is this 'maemo-usbnet-chooser' app? | 05:55 |
| lophyte | I can't find it anywhere | 05:55 |
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| mariorz | im trying to find osso-xterm 0.13.mh18 | 06:06 |
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| K`zan | Since one can't set power level by connection, does the power saving automatically reduce the WIFI power out depending on need - thus leaving it set at 100mW and if the WAP is 5' away, it would automatically reduce power as needed? | 06:41 |
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| K`zan | Reason I asked is that I seemed to get just over 2 hours out of the battery today in the first run-it-down and see how long it lasts exercise. | 06:42 |
| K`zan | Here at home 10mw might be fine, out in the world, dunno... | 06:42 |
| pupnik | there are a few tweaks you can do for wlan power, sleepiness, wakeyness | 06:45 |
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| zerojay | Anyone else seem to think that Planet's broken? | 07:03 |
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| K`zan | Which planet? | 07:07 |
| K`zan | Earth does indeed seem a bit rocky from time to time... | 07:07 |
| K`zan | pupnik: Will get to those :). | 07:08 |
| K`zan | Did figure out what is wrong with the WAP, it insists on giving out itself as the gateway, which it isn't. Not sure that can be fixed. | 07:09 |
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| pupnik_ | hhahaha the communist video response to thoughtfix contest is pretty funny | 07:23 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwGEGtexinY | 07:23 |
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| |R | pupnik_ : hehe it's my fav :) | 07:33 |
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| * pupnik_ hits refresh on nokia.de | 07:36 | |
| pupnik_ | nope - they're not working at 6:30 on a monday | 07:36 |
| |R | ehe | 07:36 |
| pupnik_ | well I am. | 07:36 |
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| pupnik_ | "learning hildon/gtk by osmosis" | 07:54 |
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| pupnik_ | nice entries | 08:09 |
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| pupnik_ | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11931 Vote for the N810 winner for Thoughtfix's N810 promo giveaway! | 08:26 |
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| Tb0n3 | well | 08:41 |
| unique311 | <pupnik_> "learning hildon/gtk by osmosis" link? | 08:47 |
| pupnik_ | hehe just snuffling through other ppl's source code | 08:49 |
| pupnik_ | and picking up pieces here and there | 08:49 |
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| lopz | bye | 08:53 |
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| K`zan | Night folks! | 09:03 |
| L0cutus | 'morning ! | 09:03 |
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| mariorz | hi | 09:09 |
| _Monkey | hola, mariorz | 09:09 |
| mariorz | hola | 09:09 |
| _Monkey | que tal, mariorz | 09:09 |
| mariorz | heh | 09:09 |
| czr | mornink | 09:13 |
| mariorz | morning | 09:14 |
| _Monkey | aloha | 09:14 |
| mariorz | jesus | 09:14 |
| * czr has to shave, true. | 09:14 | |
| mariorz | my python 2.4 runtime seesm to not be installed by the package manager | 09:15 |
| mariorz | how woild i go about removing it to install 2.5 | 09:15 |
| mariorz | ? | 09:15 |
| mariorz | on the 770 | 09:16 |
| mariorz | ? | 09:16 |
| mariorz | any linkage? | 09:18 |
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| pupnik | apt-get remove python* | 09:38 |
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| mariorz | pupnik: thhanks, Im getting resource temp unavailable.. another process using i... i've unistalleb about every app except for the xterm, openssh and some font libs.. still get that error | 09:50 |
| mariorz | err nvm python 2.4 seems to be removed | 09:53 |
| mariorz | jus getteing a dependency wiht a osso-thumbnail9 0.5 fix, is there another rep for libs like this? | 09:53 |
| czr | for some reason I'm always thinking snatchbox when writing scratchbox.. | 09:57 |
| pupnik | hm | 10:00 |
| pupnik | sorry dunno that library mariorz - check gronmayer | 10:00 |
| pupnik | repositories? | 10:00 |
| _Monkey | repositories is, like, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php | 10:00 |
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| mariorz | ehh apperantly adding on of those repos did it, tried installing 2.5 again adn didnt prompt for the error | 10:08 |
| mariorz | thanks | 10:08 |
| mariorz | its downloading :D | 10:09 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:40 |
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| Jaffa | Is planet updating yet? | 10:47 |
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| czr | "Prequisites" | 10:59 |
| * czr bands head against wall | 10:59 | |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: It should begin updating again in the next hour.. | 10:59 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: what was the problem, out of interest? It's odd for a site to go up and down so frequently out-of-hours and then be broken? | 11:06 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: cron died :) | 11:06 |
| kulve | what kind of system gets it's cron dead? | 11:09 |
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| kulve | -' | 11:10 |
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| X-Fade | I have no idea, that something for the administrators to find out ;) | 11:11 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: doh | 11:11 |
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| josht | characters other than ctrl? What syntax do I use? | 11:14 |
| josht | hmmm, that should have started with "in maemo's xterm, how do I use non-alphabetic ... | 11:15 |
| josht | How in shortcuts, I mean. | 11:16 |
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| AD-N770 | bon dia / good morning | 11:18 |
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| josht | nm | 11:21 |
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| felipec | huomenta AD-N770 | 11:24 |
| timelyx | josht | 11:25 |
| timelyx | oh good | 11:25 |
| * timelyx goes to work | 11:25 | |
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| X-Fade | Jaffa: Ok, flood gates are opened ;) Lots of new items... | 11:33 |
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| unique311 | lots of new items? | 11:39 |
| czr | hmm. is there a nice page giving the official hw specs for N810 somewhere? | 11:42 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: cool | 11:42 |
| timelyx | hrm | 11:43 |
| timelyx | czr? any idea who's supposed to push pataches into the kernel? | 11:43 |
| czr | timelyx, hmm. apt-cache show kernel-headers and send email to the maintainer? | 11:43 |
| czr | at least they'll know. I don't. | 11:43 |
| * timelyx pretends not to have a device | 11:44 | |
| timelyx | can you answer the apt-cache bit? :) | 11:44 |
| czr | ok, let me see | 11:44 |
| czr | or I could say "google" like you do ;-) | 11:44 |
| czr | try yauheni.kaliuta@nokia.com | 11:45 |
| * timelyx knows him | 11:45 | |
| czr | I know him only via email | 11:46 |
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| * timelyx grumbles | 11:48 | |
| * timelyx kicks the reporter | 11:48 | |
| timelyx | consider https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1640&group_id=441&atid=1664 | 11:48 |
| timelyx | then read the original bug report | 11:48 |
| timelyx | there's no mention in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2249 of the garage report. nor is there mention that the kernel clearly doesn't support it | 11:49 |
| czr | well. I think "they" think that since .jp isn't a market area, all bugs related to .jp can/will be ignored | 11:49 |
| * czr shrugs | 11:50 | |
| X-Fade | Hmmm: I guess that is the problem when a devices grows wider. Can't reach the keys with your thumbs ;) http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/19/gigabyte-reveals-m704-umpc/ | 11:50 |
| czr | timelyx, but yeah, I agree. | 11:50 |
| timelyx | czr: i'd like people to be taught not to file shitty bug reports | 11:50 |
| timelyx | taking a bug which had lots of relevant information | 11:50 |
| czr | timelyx, pay them money :-) | 11:50 |
| timelyx | and stripping all of that, only to refile in another place | 11:50 |
| * czr hides & runs | 11:50 | |
| timelyx | and then making me waste *my* time / money to investigate things they already knew... | 11:50 |
| timelyx | czr: no shirt for you | 11:51 |
| czr | I already have a shirt, thanks anyway ;-) | 11:51 |
| czr | timelyx, http://geekz.co.uk/shop/store/show/knuth-tshirt | 11:51 |
| czr | beats any nokia/maemo t-shirt hands-down :-) | 11:51 |
| czr | and yes, the shirt is truly as scary as in the picture. | 11:52 |
| czr | hmm. what does it mean to have: "Smooth slide with integrated QWERTY keyboard" | 11:52 |
| czr | (from N810 hw spec page) | 11:52 |
| czr | it means the keyboard is an additional bonus to the slider thingy? | 11:52 |
| timelyx | http://www.samsung.com/common/microsite/e800/ ? :) | 11:53 |
| czr | or maybe it means that having a keyboard now equals to getting better slide action in other contexts | 11:53 |
| czr | heh | 11:53 |
| czr | I don't have flash though. but the slogan pretty much says it all :-) | 11:53 |
| * timelyx doesn't have flash either | 11:54 | |
| czr | is the Nokia Maps BP-4L battery 1500mA? | 11:54 |
| timelyx | europe.nokia.com/A4423145 - | 11:54 |
| czr | hmm. isn't it supposed to be 1500mAh? | 11:54 |
| timelyx | output v. output time? | 11:54 |
| czr | hmh. | 11:54 |
| czr | I have no idea. the material now currently says that there's a 1500mA battery in 770 and 800 | 11:55 |
| czr | just wondering whether that's even a valid unit to measure battery "size" | 11:55 |
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| czr | and wtf is Nokia Maps anyway. | 11:56 |
| timelyx | nothing probably? | 11:56 |
| timelyx | the 2008 os includes an app called Map, not Maps | 11:56 |
| * czr nods | 11:56 | |
| * timelyx wants to stab someone for misspelling maps | 11:56 | |
| timelyx | assuming you're talking about tablets | 11:56 |
| czr | timelyx, http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html | 11:57 |
| timelyx | the phones ship a maps app | 11:57 |
| czr | grep for battery: | 11:57 |
| timelyx | hrm | 11:57 |
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| czr | what is a nokia maps battery anyway :-) | 11:57 |
| timelyx | mine says: | 11:57 |
| timelyx | +-o 3.7V | 11:57 |
| timelyx | BP-4L | 11:57 |
| timelyx | -------------- | 11:57 |
| timelyx | NOKIA | 11:57 |
| czr | yup | 11:58 |
| timelyx | and it has a pretty hologram | 11:58 |
| timelyx | which i will not try to reproduce in ASCII | 11:58 |
| czr | "genuine microsoft" | 11:58 |
| czr | I'm too afraid to open the cover in mine | 11:58 |
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| czr | the back cover feels a littly flimsy | 11:58 |
| czr | little even | 11:58 |
| * timelyx ponders | 11:59 | |
| timelyx | if you were making a product primarily for the USA | 11:59 |
| timelyx | where would you stick English in a list? | 11:59 |
| czr | hmm. does nokia support external gps receivers with 770? | 11:59 |
| timelyx | search "User interface languages" | 11:59 |
| timelyx | czr: sure | 11:59 |
| czr | I know the 2008 does with N800 | 11:59 |
| timelyx | well, for some messed up definition of support | 12:00 |
| timelyx | it works fine w/ maemomapper | 12:00 |
| czr | I'm looking for official support. not community provided. | 12:00 |
| kulve | nokia doesn't support 770 | 12:00 |
| timelyx | well, you can buy the nokia maps bundle for the 770 | 12:00 |
| czr | hmm | 12:00 |
| timelyx | it included a bt gps | 12:00 |
| czr | ah, ok. | 12:00 |
| timelyx | not sure if you can still *find* that | 12:00 |
| timelyx | but if you can, then "sure" it "supports bt gps" | 12:01 |
| * czr nods | 12:01 | |
| czr | I'm updating the hw spec comparison chart | 12:01 |
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| timelyx | google: 770 navigation site:nokia.com | 12:01 |
| timelyx | http://europe.nokia.com/EUROPE_NOKIA_COM_3/Accessories/flash/data/xml/others/770NavigationKit.html | 12:01 |
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| czr | ok. great. | 12:01 |
| timelyx | which chart? | 12:02 |
| czr | timelyx, for the training material | 12:03 |
| czr | I doubt it has passed your eyes | 12:03 |
| czr | or maybe it has, /me shrugs | 12:03 |
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| timelyx | i think i've had offers to look | 12:05 |
| timelyx | i can't remember if i decided to look | 12:06 |
| * czr nods | 12:06 | |
| czr | that's prolly the 3.2 material anyway | 12:06 |
| czr | working on a 4.0 update now | 12:06 |
| timelyx | i think i've had offers for both actually | 12:06 |
| czr | hmm. I only released the 4.0 one yesternight | 12:06 |
| czr | or rather, one part of it | 12:06 |
| timelyx | ok, then not that one :) | 12:06 |
| * czr nods | 12:06 | |
| timelyx | there are too many things floating around | 12:06 |
| timelyx | if you want a proofer, give me a weekend | 12:06 |
| czr | VFP FTW | 12:06 |
| czr | heh. sure. the material is large though :-) | 12:07 |
| czr | targetted at the beginner level, doesn't assume GTK+ experience what-so-ever. | 12:07 |
| timelyx | that's fine | 12:07 |
| timelyx | but, i'll figure it out from context | 12:07 |
| czr | cool | 12:07 |
| czr | more eyes = better | 12:07 |
| timelyx | and if at some point it seems to have a different bent, i'll slap you for it :) | 12:07 |
| czr | heh | 12:08 |
| timelyx | seriously, that's how i read... build mental model, and when things don't fit, complain | 12:08 |
| czr | that's fine | 12:08 |
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| rothiel | Hi all | 12:08 |
| czr | I seriously don't think that the material has gotten proper review even once | 12:08 |
| timelyx | i wouldn't doubt it | 12:08 |
| timelyx | it/that | 12:09 |
| timelyx | most of the stuff i look at should be in final condition (because it's *published*) | 12:09 |
| timelyx | but i find basic errors on most pages | 12:09 |
| czr | timelyx, the whole process has more or less looked like this: http://matin.maapallo.org/site.pl/selain/?c=dilbert&i=2258 | 12:09 |
| * timelyx rotfl | 12:10 | |
| * timelyx misses dilbert | 12:10 | |
| timelyx | well, unless office=dilbert | 12:10 |
| czr | :-) | 12:10 |
| timelyx | in which case, i miss permission to laugh at dilbert | 12:10 |
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| czr | 4.0 builds for ARMv6, right? | 12:14 |
| kulve | by default? probably not | 12:14 |
| czr | hmm. ARMv5 then? | 12:14 |
| kulve | probably yes | 12:14 |
| timelyx | not sure | 12:15 |
| timelyx | probably best to look at how glibc or the other evil things work | 12:15 |
| czr | heh. I'll just see what the reviewers will say then ;-). leaving at ARMv5 | 12:15 |
| timelyx | they either hint at forcing or not forcing | 12:15 |
| kulve | same packages may of cource have options to compile for armv6, but the toolchain builds for armv5 unless said otherwise | 12:15 |
| kulve | course | 12:16 |
| czr | hmm. so building against ARMv6 is possible, and the executables will run on 2420? | 12:16 |
| kulve | yeah | 12:16 |
| czr | ok. | 12:16 |
| kulve | CFLAGS='-mcpu=arm1136j-s' | 12:16 |
| kulve | or with -march | 12:16 |
| czr | won't the ABI break or anything? | 12:17 |
| kulve | I think not.. -march says which instruction set to use, not how to build up APIs (or something) | 12:18 |
| czr | hmm. ok | 12:18 |
| czr | thanks kulve | 12:18 |
| timelyx | yeah | 12:19 |
| kulve | floating point and thumb stuff is also interesting, when compiling for armv6 | 12:19 |
| kulve | (with vfp) | 12:19 |
| timelyx | it only means you can't run them on cpus that don't support whichever | 12:19 |
| czr | yup. lardman told me how to use that | 12:19 |
| czr | timelyx, well, running the stuff on 770 would be hard anyway | 12:19 |
| czr | at least I think it would. | 12:20 |
| kulve | running what stuff? | 12:20 |
| czr | stuff that would be built for ARMv6 | 12:20 |
| kulve | yeah, they won't run on armv5 | 12:20 |
| suihkulokki | the main reason current toolchain doesn't default to armv6 is that armv6 support to qemu landed in very recently (as in last week) | 12:20 |
| czr | that and different lib versions and everything. | 12:20 |
| czr | suihkulokki, ah. | 12:20 |
| kulve | suihkulokki: but sbrsh has existed and works just fine :) | 12:21 |
| timelyx | erm | 12:21 |
| * timelyx frowns | 12:21 | |
| suihkulokki | kulve: yeah, but you don't want to expose a average #maemo hacker to setting up sbrsh to real device :P | 12:21 |
| kulve | I don't? :) | 12:22 |
| suihkulokki | well.. I don't know how sadistic you are :) | 12:22 |
| tsavola | it used to be easier for 770 | 12:23 |
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| kaltsi | even I could do it so it shouldn't be that hard | 12:23 |
| czr | hmm. how much of the internal flash is used when N810 ships? | 12:23 |
| suihkulokki | more moving pieces -> more things that can be broken | 12:23 |
| czr | any ball-bark figures? | 12:23 |
| czr | suihkulokki, more interesting positions the pieces may fall into when things break too :-) | 12:24 |
| czr | "oh, that looks interesting"-kind of thingies. | 12:24 |
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| colinl | hi! Is there anyone here with IT OS 2008 and a few minutes to test a Claws Mail's .install and packages? | 12:27 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: is it known within the maemo.org admins that karma's now entirely disappeared? | 12:45 |
| Jaffa | Oh, no - seems to just be me. | 12:45 |
| kulve | Jaffa: and me | 12:45 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: There is a daily recount. Could be that that is running right now. | 12:46 |
| kulve | X-Fade: it's been broken for the whole weekend at least | 12:46 |
| X-Fade | kulve: Sure, as cron hasn't been running ;) | 12:46 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: all my profile info's gone too: https://maemo.org/profile/view/jaffa | 12:47 |
| X-Fade | Should automagically fix itself when the job is done.. | 12:47 |
| Jaffa | Really? | 12:48 |
| Jaffa | ETA? I'll hold off raising a bug until then. | 12:48 |
| X-Fade | Yep. Recount == whipe account stats and regenerate.. | 12:48 |
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| Jaffa | No, but it's not just the stats, it's also "personal website" etc. | 12:49 |
| Jaffa | Profile picture's gone - the whole thing is empty. | 12:49 |
| X-Fade | Hmm true.. | 12:49 |
| X-Fade | bergie: Any ideas? | 12:49 |
| Jaffa | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2321 now raised :) | 12:50 |
| bergie | X-Fade: yes... it seems the user export from Garage produced a feed with lots of users missing | 12:54 |
| bergie | so the users were marked as removed | 12:54 |
| bergie | and then next export created new user records | 12:54 |
| Jaffa | Sounds fairly fatal. | 12:56 |
| Fatal | lies | 12:56 |
| bergie | Jaffa: no data was deleted so we can recover | 12:56 |
| X-Fade | bergie: garage was down this weekend for some time. Maybe that is why the userfeed was empty ;) | 12:57 |
| bergie | the gforge exporter will need some auditing, though | 12:57 |
| bergie | X-Fade: could be, yes | 12:57 |
| Jaffa | bergie: cool - although it's only a few URLs and a picture, I'm a lazy individual :) | 12:57 |
| bergie | Jaffa: it is a bit more than that... favs, dev program etc | 12:58 |
| bergie | Jaffa: now they all belong to "your former self"... we just need to reassign them to the active account | 12:58 |
| Jaffa | bergie: ah, good point. ta. | 12:59 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: You got cloned over the weekend ;) But something went horribly wrong. Frankenstein style... | 13:00 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: bound to be an improvement, TBH | 13:08 |
| czr | hmm. is Xomap based on Kdrive? | 13:09 |
| czr | or regular x.org build? | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | czr: kdrive, iirc. | 13:09 |
| * czr nods | 13:09 | |
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| inz | czr, in mistral the source for xserver-xomap was xserver-kdrive, in bora it was xserver-xorg | 13:21 |
| czr | inz, yes, but that doesn't answer the question :-) | 13:22 |
| inz | czr, sure it doesn't | 13:22 |
| czr | packaging changed also in ubuntu, but that's not really significant :-) | 13:22 |
| czr | same happened with xephyr too | 13:22 |
| czr | (it's also a kdrive version) | 13:22 |
| czr | I'll go with kdrive | 13:23 |
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| Andy80 | hi all | 13:58 |
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| woekele | hi Andy80 | 14:03 |
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| timeless | hello world | 14:46 |
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| lardman | hello timeless | 14:46 |
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| Spakman | does osso-xterm-advanced run on 2008OS? | 14:57 |
| inz | Only if you compile it yourself | 14:57 |
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| czr | inz, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2322 | 14:58 |
| czr | just fyi :-) | 14:58 |
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| Spakman | thanks inz - what about another terminal program? | 15:01 |
| timeless | czr: why didn't you file that in Desktop? | 15:03 |
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| czr | timeless, I have no idea | 15:03 |
| * timeless looks for a cluebat | 15:03 | |
| czr | if you find it, do tell me. | 15:03 |
| timeless | i think i need an apropriately well padded cluebat | 15:04 |
| timeless | you're too valuable for a rock solid one | 15:04 |
| czr | can it also be pink and fluffy? | 15:04 |
| * czr needs some tender loving | 15:04 | |
| lardman | Spakman: there's one built in, scroll down one of the menus | 15:04 |
| lardman | Spakman: utilities I think | 15:04 |
| timeless | the ones i usually stock tend to be yellow and spongy, but i might be able to soak it in bubble gum... | 15:04 |
| czr | timeless, sound promising | 15:04 |
| timeless | cotton candy would probably be better i suppose | 15:05 |
| timeless | will you move it? :) | 15:05 |
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| inz | czr, surprise surprise | 15:06 |
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| inz | Spakman, I think 2008 includes a terminal by default | 15:06 |
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| timeless | /osso-xterm-0.14.mh1/debian/control | 15:07 |
| czr | timeless, I wouldn't know where to. maybe it's better someone more clueful will move it. | 15:07 |
| timeless | yes it does | 15:07 |
| lardman | Anyone have any thoughts or pointers to the map data format on OS2008? | 15:07 |
| czr | otherwise I'll break my "submit under most unlikely category"-streak. | 15:07 |
| timeless | czr: Desktop/Task Navigator doesn't sound reasonable? | 15:07 |
| suihkulokki | lardman: khexedit | 15:07 |
| czr | timeless, it's not TN | 15:07 |
| lardman | suihkulokki: indeed, that's the next stop after asking if anyone else has started :) | 15:07 |
| timeless | fwiw, os2007 for the same search does not show xterm | 15:07 |
| timeless | (cross references are nice) | 15:08 |
| * timeless ponders | 15:08 | |
| timeless | i wonder if i could tarball */debian/* and publish that | 15:08 |
| timeless | from itos2005/2006/2007/2008 | 15:08 |
| timeless | it shouldn't have anything confidential | 15:08 |
| czr | anyhow, time for shower and some food. | 15:08 |
| timeless | and it's actually useful for answering questions such as these | 15:09 |
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| Spakman | thanks inz | 15:10 |
| suihkulokki | timeless: do you know a) when mozilla 1.9 is coming out b) if trunk already has necessary patches to run on arm eabi | 15:11 |
| Andy80 | any news about the N810 availability day on the online shops? | 15:11 |
| lardman | suihkulokki: navit looks pretty interesting, esp if the built-in maps could be used | 15:11 |
| timeless | a. no | 15:11 |
| timeless | b. sorry, i'm currently in debian hell | 15:11 |
| suihkulokki | lardman: navit.sf.net ? I noticed it yes. | 15:11 |
| timeless | i'll get back to you when i exit | 15:11 |
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| lardman | suihkulokki: yep. I didn't realise the openstreetmap data contained road speeds and direction info for the routing | 15:13 |
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| bergie | lardman: depends how well a road is tagged, of course | 15:21 |
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| lardman | bergie: yes, I just didn't realise those sorts of tags were being added | 15:24 |
| lardman | bergie: but all good :) | 15:24 |
| * lardman is interested in routing algorithms for some obscure reason | 15:25 | |
| bergie | lardman: well, OSM is a bit of a jungle... there are lots of recommended tags (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Features) but whether map authors use them is another question... | 15:25 |
| bergie | but as more apps use OSM data for routing the quality of the data is bound to improve | 15:26 |
| lardman | I'll have to grab an editor and see how well populated the places I need to visit are | 15:26 |
| bergie | great | 15:26 |
| bergie | and don't forget that you can fix any faulty data you run into :-) | 15:27 |
| lardman | indeed | 15:27 |
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| suihkulokki | an application that gathers gps data and lets you edit OSM directly from the tablet would be really cool | 15:27 |
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| suihkulokki | ..apparently maemo mapper already does that | 15:29 |
| bergie | suihkulokki: we've been talking about that | 15:29 |
| lardman | really? | 15:29 |
| suihkulokki | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Creating_a_track_with_Maemo-mapper | 15:29 |
| bergie | suihkulokki: that is just track logging (an important step, of course), not actual map editing | 15:30 |
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| bergie | our idea was to build something like this: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/notes_from_the_state_of_the_map_conference.html#1d7f31bce630410e32324c11902e1481 | 15:30 |
| lardman | difficult I imagine making sure the speed limits and road names are set at the correct positions | 15:31 |
| bergie | lardman: you tag road segments | 15:32 |
| lardman | bergie: I know, but doing it on the move I mean | 15:32 |
| bergie | lardman: yep, that would need some tuning | 15:32 |
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| lardman | road names are a pita as they are difficult to see from the driver's seat, speed limits ought to be quite easy - perhaps use the actual speed data and average over lots of different sets of data from a given road | 15:33 |
| lardman | or have the driver say the limit and convert it to a tag | 15:33 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Or just drive at the allowed speed ;) | 15:34 |
| bergie | you can have a co-pilot doing this stuff | 15:34 |
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| lardman | X-Fade: well yeah, you could do that, but I was thinking more of the other case when you're stuck behind a tractor making a derestricted road into a 15mph version ;) | 15:34 |
| lardman | bergie: yes | 15:35 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Well ok, there is that problem :) | 15:35 |
| bergie | ...or just stop (and ensure your car has a proper warning like http://www.jinx.com/other_swag/stickers/geek/wardriving_bumper.html) | 15:35 |
| lardman | lol | 15:38 |
| * lardman could have done with some geoclue integration in London at the weekend to find the closest pub serving chips | 15:40 | |
| bergie | lardman: feel free to hack :-) | 15:40 |
| lardman | it's deciding what will actually be useful | 15:41 |
| lardman | or expandable I suppose | 15:41 |
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| lardman | but it's certainly doable if you have a list - toptable for example does restaurants, it would be possible to grab the list and then allow searches and position to be displayed | 15:42 |
| * X-Fade plans to include firealarms for firefighters on an openstreetmap on N810 as a test for a chemical company... | 15:42 | |
| lardman | Sounds interesting | 15:43 |
| bergie | eat.fi has AFAIK a downloadable DB of restaurants in helsinki | 15:43 |
| bergie | with geotags | 15:43 |
| X-Fade | Live alarms that is.. | 15:43 |
| NeoStrider | hey folks | 15:43 |
| lardman | bergie: that's one of the problems, lots of these lists are city dependant, which means you'd have to autoswitch or not have coverage for lots of people | 15:43 |
| bergie | lardman: or just decide to support GeoRSS and then enable people to add whatever restaurant feeds they find | 15:44 |
| bergie | that could be done actually just with the GeoRSS2POI script we hacked with ajturner for downloading GeoRSS and putting the data to maemo mapper | 15:44 |
| bergie | the script would need a bit of love and a nice UI though | 15:45 |
| lardman | I'll have a read about geoRSS | 15:45 |
| lardman | need lunch now though, bbl | 15:45 |
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| Spakman | anyone know if initfs_flash works with OS2008? | 16:11 |
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| Tak | greetings pantomaemes! | 16:16 |
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| rothiel | re | 16:20 |
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| rothiel | ;) | 16:44 |
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| lophyte | hey all | 16:46 |
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| lopz | hola | 16:48 |
| lophyte | hey | 16:48 |
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| lardman | I'd been thinking that maemo hadn't changed for a long time, but when I scroll down the news I see new items. Not sure this ranking posts works all that well | 17:00 |
| lardman | maemo.org that is | 17:01 |
| keesj | and also the garage news is gone , that one changed a lot | 17:02 |
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| Spakman | anyone know how I can get esfsprogs on OS2008? | 17:03 |
| lardman | is it not in the repo? | 17:06 |
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| Spakman | I can't seem to find it :( | 17:08 |
| Spakman | lardman - which repository did you find it in? | 17:11 |
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| lardman | Spakman: not sure for os2008, but for os2007 it was in the sdk repo | 17:17 |
| lardman | iirc | 17:17 |
| Spakman | ah, I was in blue pill mode. Thanks lardman | 17:19 |
| lardman | np | 17:19 |
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| timeless | "esfsprogs" is not in chinook:debian/control | 17:34 |
| Spakman | timeless - I found it in at repository.maemo.org (red pill mode) | 17:38 |
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| Andy80 | hi | 18:00 |
| Andy80 | just a quick question about N810... in wich part of it is located the integrated microphone? like the one N770 has in the bottom... | 18:01 |
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| Jaffa | Andy80: middle of the front at the top, AFAIK | 18:20 |
| Andy80 | Jaffa: thanks :) I asked because I watched some videos on youtube, showing the hardware, and mic was not mentioned :S | 18:21 |
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| rhykin | so does anyone know if the wireless improved (capability with EAP-TLS) in OS2008? | 18:42 |
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| * |R just got his M1200 | 19:20 | |
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| * lardman wonders what an M1200 is | 19:26 | |
| |R | oh, a BT GPS :) | 19:27 |
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| lardman | ah, good good | 19:27 |
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| linuxkrn | hey all, I was wondering if anyone knew if the n810 will be able to hold a miniSD internally without having it sticking out? Or would you need the microSD to do that? | 19:27 |
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| johntokash | linuxkrn, the minisd card will not stick out | 19:29 |
| sp3000 | heh, I knew that photo would mislead someone :) | 19:29 |
| johntokash | if you use a microsd card, you'll need to put it in a minisd adapter | 19:30 |
| linuxkrn | ah, couldn't tell from specs if it would hold the entire mini card. | 19:30 |
| johntokash | typically, microsd cards come with an SD adapter, so be careful if you are buying micro sd | 19:30 |
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| linuxkrn | so if I read them correctly, it supports 4 mini SD cards? | 19:30 |
| johntokash | no | 19:30 |
| johntokash | 1 mini sd card | 19:30 |
| johntokash | up to 4 gigabytes | 19:30 |
| johntokash | (although, I hear it will work with an 8gb micro sdhc in a mini sd adapter) | 19:31 |
| linuxkrn | nah, it says 8 GB supported, and I was sure I read it had 4 slots | 19:31 |
| johntokash | trust me: 1 slot | 19:31 |
| linuxkrn | Supports cards up to 8GB. (SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.) | 19:31 |
| linuxkrn | hum | 19:32 |
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| linuxkrn | well I can't even find 8gb miniSD cards. :-/ | 19:32 |
| gla55_ | one slot, http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N810 | 19:32 |
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| johntokash | I, too, have not found an 8gb miniSD card. You can use an 8gb microsd card in a minisd slot, but I think those are only class 2, so slow. | 19:32 |
| johntokash | newegg has a class 6 4gb minisd(hc) card. I ordered that | 19:33 |
| linuxkrn | yeah, that's the biggest I can find | 19:33 |
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| linuxkrn | but the card won't extrude from the n810 (miniSD) right? | 19:34 |
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| linuxkrn | I assume most of that 2GB internal storage is going to be taken by maps, any idea how much? | 19:35 |
| johntokash | I've been told 1.5GB if you have all of US installed | 19:36 |
| K`zan | Dunno, but the Maps for western US was 868MB, dunno how MaemoMapper works out yet. | 19:36 |
| johntokash | This is the 4GB I bought: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134518 | 19:36 |
| K`zan | Maps - the app that came with the 810 | 19:37 |
| johntokash | Note the 'class 6' under specifications. Fast! | 19:37 |
| linuxkrn | johntokash: same one I was looking at | 19:37 |
| linuxkrn | So then the 810 comes with a CD of maps and you install what you need? | 19:37 |
| linuxkrn | because I'd love to have both America and Asia-Pacific, maybe on different cards if that's possible | 19:38 |
| linuxkrn | wow, no ogg (vorbis) audio support. That's a bit surprising | 19:40 |
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| johntokash | linuxkrn: I read somewhere that ogg was supported. Maybe just in the libraries | 19:40 |
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| linuxkrn | well I can't wait to test it out, have a pre-order so won't know until buy.com ships. Didn't get approved for the n810 dev program. :( | 19:41 |
| linuxkrn | No one else has them in stock yet, do they? | 19:42 |
| Andy80 | why HildonFileChooserDialog is not listed in the API docs? --> http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/hildon/ix01.html | 19:42 |
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| johntokash | linuxkrn: As far as I know, the only place that has them in stock is the Nokia stores in Chicago and New York. | 19:43 |
| * linuxkrn debates driving 18 hours to get one. :p | 19:43 | |
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| lardman | linuxkrn: you download the maps you need, but I think it should come pre-installed on a per-area basis | 19:51 |
| linuxkrn | specs don't say, but I assume it's a single touch screen, not multi. Correct? | 19:51 |
| lardman | dunno | 19:51 |
| linuxkrn | lardman: download from nokia website? | 19:51 |
| lardman | I've no idea where they are downloaded from, just that they are | 19:51 |
| bstock_ | are the 810's for sale yet? | 19:52 |
| lardman | linuxkrn: the maps application does the downloading for you | 19:52 |
| linuxkrn | lardman: ah, I see. You wouldn't know about region restrictions would ya? :) | 19:52 |
| lardman | linuxkrn: No, sorry | 19:52 |
| linuxkrn | bstock_: buy.com has them for pre-order | 19:52 |
| linuxkrn | lardman: no problem. Just wondering. | 19:53 |
| lardman | take a look on itt, people have been experimenting with the N800 OS2008 image | 19:53 |
| Tak | I would be amazed if they were multitouch | 19:54 |
| linuxkrn | Tak: one can hope. :) | 19:54 |
| linuxkrn | so much information on the net seems wrong, I've seen everything from onboard FM *transmitter* to 4x miniSD slots (32GB max) | 19:54 |
| bill20r3 | wait, it doesn't have lasers? | 19:55 |
| linuxkrn | I'm still not clear on the on-board memory. It says "Max User Storage: 2GB", does that mean it comes with a 2GB miniSD card? | 19:55 |
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| linuxkrn | bill20r3: only sharks have lasers, duh. :) | 19:57 |
| Tak | multitouch lasers | 20:00 |
| lardman | or genetically mutated seabass iirc | 20:00 |
| Tak | for ripping multiple sectors of a CD in parallel | 20:00 |
| linuxkrn | Just wait for the n950, it will have a neural interface. | 20:00 |
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| Jaffa | bergie: any comment on how long "a while" is on #2321? I've got an updated bugzilla count in my karma now, but everything else is still blank | 20:01 |
| ol_schoola | linuxkrn: trust us. it has 2Gig onboard (inside, not removeable) and a miniSD slot. got it? | 20:02 |
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| linuxkrn | ol_schoola: um, I only asked about the internal storage once. | 20:03 |
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| linuxkrn | internal meaning on-board | 20:03 |
| linuxkrn | and in any event, no need to be rude. | 20:04 |
| ol_schoola | sorry, short fuse IRL at the moment, just re-read the logs again, my bad. apo9logize for the co9llateral damage | 20:05 |
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| ol_schoola | if it helps, i'm in chicago | 20:06 |
| linuxkrn | Did you get a n810 already? | 20:06 |
| ol_schoola | no, my 800 arrived last week | 20:06 |
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| linuxkrn | ah, the 800 supports os2008 too, if I recall correctly | 20:07 |
| ol_schoola | mine seems to ;) | 20:07 |
| keesj | yep | 20:07 |
| lardman | kills battery though | 20:08 |
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| ol_schoola | i do miss all the application goodness of '07, even after only a week | 20:08 |
| linuxkrn | can you download the os2008 and run it on the sdk? | 20:08 |
| ol_schoola | and battery has been raped, yes | 20:08 |
| linuxkrn | ol_schoola: doesn't the 810 have LCD brightness features missing on the 800 | 20:08 |
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| lardman | ol_schoola: turning off the scrolling rss makes responsiveness better | 20:08 |
| keesj | is there some warez site whern I can download it2008? | 20:08 |
| K`zan | One more app in the 2008 repos than there was yesterday :-) | 20:08 |
| lardman | keesj: Look at ITT | 20:08 |
| ol_schoola | lardman: rss scrolling? i'm draeing a blank | 20:09 |
| ol_schoola | drawing | 20:09 |
| lardman | the applet | 20:09 |
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| lardman | on the main screen, but if you've disabled it anyway then don;t worry | 20:09 |
| ol_schoola | oh, it's gone, killed right at the start | 20:09 |
| * lardman needs to reboot to Linux, brb | 20:10 | |
| K`zan | I stand corrected - 2 more :-) | 20:10 |
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| ol_schoola | the touch algos are definately WAY different then the las release of boara i noticed | 20:10 |
| ol_schoola | bora | 20:10 |
| ol_schoola | i'm certainly willing to trade battery time for the cpu bump | 20:11 |
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| K`zan | w | 20:20 |
| lophyte | ey all | 20:20 |
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| lardman | anyone happen to know what __arch_copy_to_user() is now called? | 20:24 |
| lardman | undefined kernel symbol | 20:24 |
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| lardman | Could someone running OS2007 on an n800 tell me whether this gives any output please?: cat /proc/kallsyms | grep arch_copy | 20:41 |
| Atarii | stupid nokia 810 walkthrough, i should never have watched it, now i want one sooooo bad! | 20:41 |
| lardman | :) | 20:42 |
| * lardman keeps checking the Nokia online shop on the off chance they're available yet... :) | 20:42 | |
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| Atarii | worst thing is, now is probably the best time to sell my 770; just before christmas and when they are still worth an average amount | 20:43 |
| linuxkrn | I'm installing the sdk (it's downloading atm), does it include os2008 in the sdk? | 20:43 |
| lardman | no, you have to look on itt if you want to see that info | 20:43 |
| lophyte | how much are the 810s going for? | 20:44 |
| linuxkrn | 450 at buy.com | 20:44 |
| lardman | they're not yet | 20:44 |
| linuxkrn | 479 from nokia, IIRC | 20:44 |
| lophyte | ugh... | 20:44 |
| lophyte | should've waited | 20:44 |
| lophyte | I paid 299 for my 800 from Dell | 20:45 |
| lophyte | 2 days later they were down to 248 | 20:45 |
| lophyte | 249, rather | 20:45 |
| linuxkrn | http://www.buy.com/prod/Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet-Full-Pull-out-QWERTY-Keyboard/q/loc/101/206228943.html | 20:45 |
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| linuxkrn | crap, it wants my 12digit product id to download os2008. :( | 20:48 |
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| mgedmin | yup | 20:50 |
| mgedmin | you can find it in control panel -> device -> about | 20:50 |
| mgedmin | it's the same as the wifi mac address, fwiw | 20:50 |
| linuxkrn | don't have my 810 yet (pre-ordered) | 20:50 |
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| lardman | assuming you have an n810 that is | 20:51 |
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| mgedmin | are the n810s available in the US yet? | 20:51 |
| linuxkrn | I was told they are in nokia stores, and pre-order at some websites | 20:51 |
| linuxkrn | otherwise, the ETA listed on a few sites is 24-26th of this month | 20:52 |
| lardman | :) my kernel module symbol redefinitions appear to have worked, now to try insmod.... | 20:52 |
| linuxkrn | so without a n810, I can I do any dev work in the sdk? | 20:54 |
| mgedmin | yes | 20:54 |
| mgedmin | you don't need the OS image for the SDK | 20:54 |
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| mariorz_ | i just got a770, you guys recommend i upgrade to os2007? | 20:57 |
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| lophyte | is it possible to write statusbar applets in python? | 21:00 |
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| Tak | mariorz_: I would | 21:01 |
| Tak | heh - actually, I did | 21:01 |
| Atarii | same here | 21:02 |
| Atarii | now looking into gettin flash 9 working (groan!) | 21:02 |
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| mariorz_ | Tak: cool, will do,is it imortant i get another card to do the dual boot or,just gomwith 2007? | 21:04 |
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| mariorz_ | its stable fromwhat ive been rading, no? | 21:05 |
| X-Fade | lardman: And? Did it work? :) | 21:05 |
| Tak | I run mine directly on the device; your mileage may vary | 21:05 |
| Tak | if you don't like it, you can always reflash the latest OS2006 | 21:05 |
| mariorz_ | cool | 21:06 |
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| linuxkrn | looks like someone did a ogg package for 2008, but doesn't add support to built in player. I assume maybe ukmp or kagu might play them then. | 21:07 |
| sxpert | about the N810, is it possible to get it with a US keyboard ? I don't want a stupid azerty french keyboard :-( | 21:09 |
| X-Fade | sxpert: I think if you talk to the Nokia direct guys, you can.. | 21:10 |
| sxpert | ah. | 21:10 |
| sxpert | cause I am one of the happy few, and would like the US keyboard :-) | 21:11 |
| sxpert | 'cept I'm obviously registered as fr... | 21:11 |
| X-Fade | sxpert: Hehe, I can't blame you. | 21:11 |
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| linuxkrn | need a nes emulator for the 810, is might port it if no-one else is working on it. | 21:13 |
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| mariorz_ | would it be possible to run android on this things or am i talking nonsense? | 21:13 |
| gla55_ | mariorz_: possibly | 21:14 |
| linuxkrn | Can 2008 run older OS apps? | 21:14 |
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| bedboi | hi there. | 21:17 |
| bedboi | is there any hildon widget for "yes" "no" dialogs? | 21:17 |
| bedboi | like gpe_ask_question | 21:17 |
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| Atarii | bought a retractable charger today for my 770 from poundland, win! | 21:19 |
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| linuxkrn | not sure what the car chargers go for, but I usually make them. Cost about $7-10 in parts. | 21:20 |
| Tak | linuxkrn: there's fceu already - http://garage.maemo.org/projects/xmame | 21:20 |
| linuxkrn | Tak: that's "arcade" games, not NES | 21:21 |
| Tak | xmame is, but fceu is nes | 21:21 |
| penguinbait | fceu is NES | 21:21 |
| linuxkrn | ah, you just linked to xmame. :) | 21:22 |
| Tak | they share a garage project | 21:22 |
| penguinbait | last I tried very slow, but it was a long time ago | 21:22 |
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| linuxkrn | can't imagen why, NES was like 8bit 2Mhz processor. lol | 21:24 |
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| penguinbait | I think because nobody optimizes code anymore, the buy faster processors | 21:25 |
| linuxkrn | very true | 21:26 |
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| tigert | embedded makes people think again | 21:27 |
| czr | penguinbait, that's because no one appreciates fast code :-) | 21:27 |
| tigert | although I bet it has a big impact on battery life on laptops too | 21:28 |
| tigert | depending what apps actually do all the time | 21:28 |
| czr | idle | 21:28 |
| tigert | or loop, fast | 21:28 |
| tigert | as many do | 21:28 |
| czr | or execute inefficient algorithms or 20 functions deep callchains (GTK+) | 21:28 |
| tigert | yeah | 21:28 |
| tigert | or check if all the icons are still there :) | 21:28 |
| czr | and fail.. :-) | 21:28 |
| czr | tigert, you want to fix my problem with task navigator? :-) | 21:29 |
| tigert | what is that? | 21:29 |
| linuxkrn | the 810 is a 400Mhz arm cpu right? | 21:29 |
| mariorz_ | what do you guys wrte apps for this in? python? | 21:29 |
| penguinbait | 800 and 810 same CPU | 21:29 |
| mariorz_ | mostly | 21:29 |
| czr | tigert, bug 2313 | 21:29 |
| _Monkey | Bug 2313 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2313 | 21:29 |
| penguinbait | 388 bogomips | 21:29 |
| penguinbait | :) | 21:29 |
| czr | linuxkrn, OS2008 will run the CPU at 400 max | 21:30 |
| czr | both N800 and N810 | 21:30 |
| czr | penguinbait, low battery? :-) | 21:30 |
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| penguinbait | my tabletpc is 3194 bogomips | 21:30 |
| tigert | kaltsi: ping? :) | 21:30 |
| linuxkrn | czr: but that cpu? Specs: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N810 don't say | 21:30 |
| czr | very bogoful :-) | 21:30 |
| czr | linuxkrn, omap 2420, same as n800 | 21:31 |
| kaltsi | pong? | 21:31 |
| linuxkrn | czr: thanks, do we have spec sheets for supported instruction sets? | 21:31 |
| tigert | czr: wow | 21:31 |
| czr | ARMv6 | 21:31 |
| tigert | kaltsi: #2313 | 21:31 |
| czr | plus vfp and something else | 21:31 |
| tigert | see above | 21:31 |
| Tak | mariorz_: c, python, ruby | 21:31 |
| penguinbait | thumb | 21:31 |
| penguinbait | vfp and thumb | 21:32 |
| kaltsi | tigert ah yeah.. eek | 21:32 |
| tigert | yea, weird | 21:32 |
| lardman | linuxkrn: there's a manual on the arm site | 21:32 |
| czr | linuxkrn, ARM1136 core with TMS320C55x DSP | 21:32 |
| penguinbait | anyone use thumb? | 21:32 |
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| czr | penguinbait, I use mine every day :-) | 21:32 |
| tigert | man, I need to fix plankton now that the os2008 screenshots are public | 21:32 |
| czr | kaltsi, tigert, you can thank me later :-) | 21:32 |
| czr | kaltsi, tigert, also, since you're in a helpful and receptive mood, bug 2322 :-) | 21:33 |
| _Monkey | Bug 2322 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2322 | 21:33 |
| mariorz_ | Tak: cool, been wanting to peak up ruby, ruby+gtk? | 21:33 |
| kaltsi | I'm grumpy and old | 21:33 |
| czr | although fixing that would require re-engineering something :-) | 21:33 |
| tigert | czr: I am in post-taxfree mood | 21:33 |
| tigert | czr: gin and toblerone | 21:33 |
| czr | tigert, I pity you fool! | 21:33 |
| tigert | ewkk | 21:33 |
| tigert | :) | 21:33 |
| czr | unless I get some too :-) | 21:33 |
| tigert | I think I need to stop consuming one of these | 21:34 |
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| tigert | they dont quite mix | 21:34 |
| tigert | :) | 21:34 |
| czr | heh. you put the toblerone in the gin? | 21:34 |
| tigert | no | 21:34 |
| Tak | uhh...is that a question? ;-) | 21:34 |
| tigert | just eat a bit and it didnt quite taste that great with the other stuff | 21:34 |
| czr | Tak, post tax-free as well? :-) | 21:34 |
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| kaltsi | I bet that hello-world thingy belongs to sdk bugs but the other one doesn't | 21:35 |
| czr | kaltsi, I've been too afraid at attempting that on a device | 21:35 |
| czr | I could. but.. | 21:35 |
| mariorz_ | tigert: you used to have a homepage with awesome gnome bakgrounds some years ago didnt you? | 21:35 |
| czr | the world would explode and dragons fly out of nose and such. | 21:35 |
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| Tak | czr: I'm missing some context necessary to parse that question. | 21:36 |
| * Tak stupid american | 21:36 | |
| czr | Tak, what kind of context would you like? | 21:36 |
| czr | I have red and blue context available. blue is slightly used. | 21:36 |
| tigert | mariorz_: yeah | 21:36 |
| lardman | aarg, another Unknown symbol error | 21:36 |
| penguinbait | I dont know what I am missing, but it appears to be alot :) | 21:36 |
| tigert | mariorz_: I think they could be found from archive.org? | 21:37 |
| Tak | I will have transparent context or nothing! | 21:37 |
| kaltsi | who writes bug reports like that?.. where's the old: "NOTIFICATION DONT WORK!".. I miss those | 21:37 |
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| czr | Tak, if blue little used context painted transparent ok? | 21:37 |
| czr | kaltsi, I can write that too! :-) | 21:37 |
| sxpert | hmm. I installed the newer scratchbox, but I am having issues with it | 21:37 |
| lardman | ~lart me for a typo | 21:38 |
| * infobot sends a legion of lawyers after lardman's head for a typo | 21:38 | |
| czr | although I have much better idea for the subject "MAEMO 2008 NO WORK" | 21:38 |
| Tak | czr: For great context! | 21:38 |
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| kaltsi | we get signal? | 21:38 |
| czr | heh tak | 21:38 |
| czr | "catching the great signal from the sky" | 21:38 |
| lardman | Nokia-N800-:/home/user# lsmod | 21:39 |
| lardman | Module Size Used by | 21:39 |
| lardman | pvr 71828 0 - Live 0xbf058000 (PF) | 21:39 |
| lardman | g_file_storage 27528 0 - Live 0xbf050000 | 21:39 |
| lardman | cx3110x 56200 0 - Live 0xbf041000 | 21:39 |
| lardman | umac 258788 1 cx3110x, Live 0xbf000000 (P) | 21:39 |
| czr | people seem all too jolly in mood tonight. what's wrong with you? | 21:39 |
| lardman | note the first line | 21:39 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Sweet ;) | 21:39 |
| mariorz_ | tigert: cool, loved those, used to keep my dektop synced to your screenshot lol, alas moved to osx for desktop | 21:39 |
| czr | lardman, oo | 21:39 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: Now how to test if is does anything :) | 21:39 |
| lardman | it's a good question | 21:40 |
| lardman | :) | 21:40 |
| czr | modprobe -r? :-) | 21:40 |
| sxpert | trying to install the sdk gives | 21:40 |
| Tak | so...has anyone tried fceu or xmame on chinook? | 21:40 |
| czr | it it bricks the device -> for great context. | 21:40 |
| sxpert | E: Scratchbox home directory '/scratchbox/users/sxpert/home/sxpert' not found. | 21:40 |
| sxpert | E: Add user with '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser sxpert'. | 21:40 |
| sxpert | E: Specify an alternative installation path using '-s PATH' option. | 21:40 |
| lardman | czr: what does -r do? | 21:40 |
| czr | lardman, remove | 21:40 |
| Tak | someone set up us the brick | 21:40 |
| lardman | no dev entry created | 21:41 |
| sxpert | I have run the sbox_adduser thing, which in turns fscks up my environment (unable to create a new term) | 21:41 |
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| czr | lardman, how do you know? | 21:41 |
| linuxkrn | bah, scratchbox add_user doesn't work on gentoo. | 21:41 |
| czr | lardman, cat /proc/devices ? | 21:41 |
| sxpert | seems to fail on debian too | 21:41 |
| tigert | mariorz_: yeah, osx here too | 21:41 |
| tigert | mariorz_: though ubuntu at work | 21:41 |
| lardman | czr: no, nothing there | 21:42 |
| lardman | czr: Should be /dev/pvr I think | 21:42 |
| X-Fade | lardman: That should be make with mknod perhaps? You would need the major and minor though.. | 21:42 |
| czr | lardman, hmm. if the device driver doesn't expose stuff using sysfs, no udev entry will be created. but you should see stuff under /proc/devices if it registers any char or block device structures from the kernel | 21:42 |
| czr | X-Fade, if the driver is not listed in /proc/devices, no mknod will help | 21:43 |
| lardman | it shares some memory | 21:43 |
| czr | maybe it's a pure mailbox driver? weird though. not to have a device entry | 21:43 |
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| czr | lardman, does it have any parameters? modinfo? | 21:43 |
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| czr | also, maybe it's probing failed but it forgot to tell the module linker about it. | 21:44 |
| lardman | not sure, but it is alive and useful data is returned in /sys/module/pvr/initstate | 21:44 |
| czr | weird | 21:44 |
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| bedboi | so regarding the question i posed some minute ago, anyone knows if there's a hildon dialog to handle yes/no questions? | 21:45 |
| kaltsi | I'll try to repeat 232 | 21:46 |
| kaltsi | 232 | 21:46 |
| czr | you could just use hildonbanner to tell the user "this IS what you want to do" :-) | 21:46 |
| sxpert | apparently it doesn't like being installed from X | 21:46 |
| kaltsi | 2313 that is | 21:46 |
| czr | kaltsi, cool. | 21:46 |
| czr | tell me if you need help :-) | 21:46 |
| X-Fade | lardman: what does it say in /sys/module/pvr/initstate ? | 21:46 |
| czr | 4.0 sdk install, nothing interesting. AF up and running, then apt-get remove and watch and enjoy. | 21:46 |
| K`zan | Where is the stuff in the My Selection menu hidden at? Possibly one thing in there I would want on that menu ;-). | 21:47 |
| lardman | anyone know what these are (output of cat /proc/devices): sticon vcs /dev/vc/0 ? | 21:47 |
| lardman | X-Fade: live | 21:48 |
| penguinbait | virtual console | 21:48 |
| lardman | ah, ok | 21:48 |
| X-Fade | lardman: That can't be bad :) | 21:48 |
| czr | maybe it's a suggesting to the user to "get a life" | 21:48 |
| lardman | no, a reasonable start anyway. Going to have a look at the server library now | 21:48 |
| czr | "go ahead, live some!" | 21:48 |
| K`zan | Eh, later, errands perhaps I can find it as I wander around :-). bbl | 21:49 |
| X-Fade | lardman: And all this with renaming kernel symbols and changing version number in the module? | 21:49 |
| linuxkrn | so I've installed scratchbox, tried to login and get "you don't have an active target in scratchbox chroot." tells me to run sb-menu before continuing. So I tried to run sb-menu and it tells me the same thing. Any advice? | 21:49 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: Let me package glx-gears ;) | 21:50 |
| lardman | X-Fade: yes | 21:50 |
| czr | I can package my old gfx mem benchmark doodler | 21:50 |
| lardman | X-Fade: hmm, the user-space side server needs to be up and running, and then the opengl implementation too | 21:51 |
| lardman | I wouldn't get your hopes up yet | 21:51 |
| X-Fade | lardman: But is there source for the server? | 21:52 |
| lardman | libsrv_um_1.1.33.313.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (ARM), not stripped | 21:52 |
| linuxkrn | http://pastebin.ca/784629 | 21:52 |
| lardman | how does one tell the abi? | 21:53 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: My tar in scratchbox looks about the same ;) | 21:54 |
| lardman | I know, I just checked a binary in mine | 21:55 |
| lardman | I'll try the good old try it and see technique :) | 21:55 |
| X-Fade | Ah the segfaulty one.. | 21:55 |
| czr | also known as the brute force technique. | 21:56 |
| czr | or solution to the infinite monkeys dilemma. | 21:56 |
| sxpert | ok. the solution to the issues with the installer is to install from a text console | 21:57 |
| sxpert | aka out of X | 21:57 |
| suihkulokki | lardman: objdump -x foo|grep EABI | 21:57 |
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| lardman | suihkulokki: thanks | 21:59 |
| lardman | with the monkey test: ./power_test produces -sh: file: not found | 22:00 |
| kulve | no file command on the device | 22:01 |
| lardman | nothing EABI or even ABI related from objdump | 22:01 |
| lardman | kulve: why would it want file? | 22:01 |
| kulve | Nokia-N800-26:~# file | 22:02 |
| kulve | -sh: file: not found | 22:02 |
| lardman | Nokia-N800-:/home/user/pvr# ./xegltest | 22:02 |
| lardman | -sh: ./xegltest: not found | 22:02 |
| czr | ldd ? | 22:02 |
| _Monkey | ldd is to show shared libraries used by a program. On the tablets you can use: alias ldd="/lib/ld-2.3.6.so --list" and then type ldd /path/to/executeable as an equivalent | 22:02 |
| lardman | must have copied the wrong line, sorry | 22:02 |
| lardman | no ldd on the device either is there | 22:03 |
| czr | you can run the .so directly as _Monkey says | 22:03 |
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| kulve | or: /lib/ld-linux.so.3 --list /bin/busybox | 22:03 |
| czr | lardman, or use this: LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1 foo | 22:03 |
| lardman | Can I set LD_LIBRARY_PATH (it doesn't currently) exist | 22:04 |
| lardman | or will I then have to add the default paths on to it? | 22:04 |
| czr | no. it extends the defaults | 22:04 |
| lardman | cool | 22:05 |
| czr | I'm 99% sure it does ;-) | 22:05 |
| kulve | it does | 22:05 |
| czr | indeed. | 22:05 |
| * czr just tested | 22:05 | |
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| lardman | right, here is comes (6 lines or so): | 22:06 |
| lardman | Nokia-N800-:/home/user/pvr# /lib/ld-linux.so.3 --list ./power_test | 22:06 |
| lardman | ./power_test: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.0' not found (required by ./power_test) | 22:06 |
| lardman | ./power_test: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.1' not found (required by /home/user/pvr/libsrv_um_1.1.33.561.so) | 22:06 |
| lardman | ./power_test: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.0' not found (required by /home/user/pvr/libsrv_um_1.1.33.561.so) | 22:06 |
| lardman | libsrv_um_1.1.33.561.so => /home/user/pvr/libsrv_um_1.1.33.561.so (0x40004000) | 22:06 |
| lardman | libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x41220000) | 22:06 |
| lardman | libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x41028000) | 22:06 |
| lardman | /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.3 (0x2a000000) | 22:06 |
| czr | hmm. you could force the glibc compatibility thingies. somehow. | 22:06 |
| lardman | if anyone knows how I'm all ears | 22:07 |
| czr | me too | 22:07 |
| lardman | or is it a hexeditor job? | 22:07 |
| czr | well, that would do the trick too I guess, but I'm sure there's some more intelligent way | 22:07 |
| czr | but you could try hexing it | 22:07 |
| zuh | Maybe get the libc env from where ever the other binaries come from? | 22:07 |
| lardman | ah yes | 22:08 |
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| zuh | LD_LIBRARY_PATH and so on | 22:08 |
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| lardman | I'm already doing the LD_LIBRARY_PATH thing so that sounds like it might work | 22:08 |
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| suihkulokki | 22:06 < lardman> /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.3 (0x2a000000) | 22:09 |
| suihkulokki | you are smoking crack | 22:09 |
| lardman | why's that? | 22:09 |
| czr | incompatible ABI? | 22:09 |
| czr | although I don't think the ld-linux version really signifies broken backward compatibility. | 22:10 |
| suihkulokki | you are linking a oldabi linker to newabi linker | 22:10 |
| lardman | not my doing, and in fact that file doens't exist | 22:10 |
| czr | kaltsi, how goes it? | 22:11 |
| suihkulokki | hmhm. maybe that's something due to using /lib/ld-linux.so.3 from command line | 22:11 |
| kaltsi | czr I confirmed it | 22:11 |
| suihkulokki | lardman: you need a oldabi chroot | 22:11 |
| czr | kaltsi, great. any clue as to what causes it/them? | 22:11 |
| lardman | suihkulokki: yep, not so great | 22:12 |
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| kaltsi | czr nope .. don't know the way this thing works.. now I'm just trying to grep everywhere to find entries with hello-world after the removal so that I could somehow get a clue :) | 22:12 |
| czr | kaltsi, the package dep thingy is not really an issue I think (just read your append to the bug) | 22:13 |
| czr | something breaks in the way that TN/AF does things | 22:13 |
| Tak | is d.m.o currently hosed? | 22:13 |
| czr | I could find any place where the menu was replicated though. used some time to grep for it too, but nada. | 22:13 |
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| kaltsi | czr yep.. but maybe it's one of those packages postrm scripts | 22:13 |
| czr | kaltsi, yup | 22:13 |
| kaltsi | something still tries to load the hello-world.png even though it's removed.. that's why I'm trying to grep for that | 22:14 |
| czr | could be anything really. statusbar.conf goes "latkimaan" as well | 22:14 |
| czr | "hildon-desktop[7116]: GLIB DEBUG default - NAO OK!" | 22:14 |
| czr | maybe that is a helpful clue ;-) | 22:15 |
| Tak | lolwtf | 22:15 |
| kaltsi | I wonder what NAO means :) | 22:15 |
| * czr shrugs | 22:15 | |
| czr | it sounds powerful | 22:15 |
| Tak | IT CAN BE GLIB TIME NAO PLZ? | 22:15 |
| czr | heh | 22:15 |
| czr | all your icons are belong to the context. | 22:16 |
| kaltsi | removing ~/.osso made one of those TN icons go away | 22:18 |
| kaltsi | but the other still wants hello-world.png | 22:18 |
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| kaltsi | and it doesn't complain about the NAO either | 22:20 |
| czr | but nao is good. nao = brain in chinese | 22:21 |
| czr | nao ok! = positive | 22:21 |
| kaltsi | hee | 22:21 |
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| kaltsi | does anyone know how an application gets to the TN menu, like now TN->extras->hello world ? | 22:25 |
| czr | /usr/share/applications/ | 22:25 |
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| czr | and hildon under there | 22:25 |
| kaltsi | ok the hello-world.desktop is still there | 22:26 |
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| czr | there used to be another way as well, hmm. just removed it yesterday, I wonder what it was. | 22:26 |
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| czr | ok | 22:26 |
| kaltsi | the postinst copies it there but the postrm doesn't remove it | 22:27 |
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| czr | /etc/others-menu/extra_applications/ | 22:27 |
| czr | might contain a symlink to the desktop file as well. it shouldn't be used anymore, but some of your docs include it still | 22:27 |
| kaltsi | there's only maemopad | 22:27 |
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| czr | ok | 22:27 |
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| kaltsi | hm is there a good app that I can install and remove cleanly and which also installs an icon to TN? | 22:34 |
| kaltsi | I wanna spy how it's done properly :) | 22:34 |
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| czr | hmm. mine uses stock icon and goes directly under extras, so doesn't quality | 22:34 |
| czr | maemopad doesn't install it either. hmm | 22:35 |
| kaltsi | grr I don't like wider than 80 char code | 22:35 |
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| kaltsi | is this documented somewhere btw? :) | 22:36 |
| czr | "file a bug" :-) | 22:36 |
| czr | not to my knowledge | 22:36 |
| czr | other than "the hello-world app contains an example" | 22:36 |
| kaltsi | graah | 22:36 |
| czr | at least the "making application packages" is pretty silent on those | 22:37 |
| czr | the quality awareness document skips icons all-together | 22:38 |
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| jjo | kaltsi: so, what are you working on? | 22:38 |
| czr | jjo, 2313 | 22:39 |
| kaltsi | jjo trying to figure out how to fix hello-world-app's removal.. it leaves the icon behind to /usr/share/applications/hildon/ | 22:39 |
| kaltsi | I commented my findings on that bug #2313 | 22:39 |
| _Monkey | Bug 2313 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2313 | 22:39 |
| jjo | kaltsi: man, you're really dedicated | 22:40 |
| kaltsi | heh | 22:40 |
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| czr | kaltsi, it's weird though. my package removes the desktop file automatically | 22:40 |
| czr | no need for preinst/postrm stuff at all | 22:41 |
| kaltsi | hmp | 22:41 |
| czr | did you try purging it? | 22:41 |
| jjo | well it should keep track of files it installs | 22:41 |
| czr | maybe it's marked as a configuration file. | 22:41 |
| czr | kaltsi, btw, if it only would be an SDK bug, then how would the package behave on a device? | 22:42 |
| kaltsi | now when I reinstalled hello world then I get those two TN menus again | 22:42 |
| czr | heh | 22:43 |
| czr | notice, if you repeat the process, you will not get three, four menus. just only two :-) | 22:43 |
| kaltsi | czr hmm dunno.. :) | 22:43 |
| czr | I think I should bug about scalability of that bug. | 22:43 |
| czr | kaltsi, I could try on the n800, it's time I reflash that sucker anyway | 22:43 |
| kaltsi | the purge didn't work either | 22:44 |
| kaltsi | in fact it worked worse.. now it can still find the icon | 22:44 |
| czr | ok. there's no hello-world-app in the 2008 repos though | 22:44 |
| kaltsi | hmm there must be since I'm using those repos | 22:45 |
| czr | maybe --purge activated some kind of zombiesque feature in TN | 22:45 |
| czr | kaltsi, device ones? | 22:45 |
| czr | hmm. which repo? | 22:46 |
| _Monkey | well, which repo is it under | 22:46 |
| kaltsi | yes it seems to be in ARMEL too.. SDK repo | 22:46 |
| czr | hmm. I'll just copy the deb then | 22:46 |
| jjo | hmmm... so it installs a file called hello-world.inactive and renames it as hello-world.desktop | 22:47 |
| czr | ah. that's why it's not caught on removal automatically | 22:47 |
| jjo | no wonder the desktop file isn't removed | 22:47 |
| czr | why does it do it via inactive? | 22:48 |
| kaltsi | but the bigger problem is why does the TN menu duplicate itself | 22:48 |
| czr | it breaks on desktop files which point to something that doesn't anymore exist? | 22:48 |
| czr | hmm. the package includes an icon in control, true? maybe that triggers some bad stuff in TN | 22:49 |
| czr | cause the icon should be gone at the point when package is already removed | 22:49 |
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| kaltsi | when I reinstall hello-world-app it really modifies my .osso/hildon-desktop/*.conf files a lot.. removes many lines | 22:51 |
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| czr | hmm. I don't get the TN icon on the device at all | 22:52 |
| czr | I get the statusbar and home applet one. no TN icon | 22:52 |
| mariorz_ | is it possible to edit a file on the device via emacs+tramp... should i jsut install an ftp server? | 22:52 |
| mariorz_ | i have open ssh installed alredy | 22:52 |
| mariorz_ | ala gettting an ftp error | 22:53 |
| fysa | ssh into it? | 22:53 |
| |R | Anybody know if someone in the 500 winners or somewhere else was planning on packaging asterisk for the n8x0 ? :) | 22:53 |
| mariorz_ | fysa: sure but how do you edit the files? | 22:53 |
| czr | kaltsi, saw my msg? | 22:53 |
| czr | kaltsi, I'm going to try removal next | 22:53 |
| kaltsi | czr yep saw it | 22:53 |
| kaltsi | strange | 22:53 |
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| fysa | I could use nano/pico/jed on OS2007 | 22:53 |
| czr | ahhaha | 22:54 |
| * mariorz_ vomits | 22:54 | |
| czr | "Unable to uninstall hello-world-app" | 22:54 |
| mariorz_ | i need emacs | 22:54 |
| czr | now this is fine and dandy ;-) | 22:54 |
| fysa | apt-cache search emacs | 22:54 |
| fysa | :P | 22:54 |
| czr | kaltsi, not just an SDK bug | 22:54 |
| kaltsi | czr any more specific? | 22:54 |
| mariorz_ | hmmm good idea :D thx | 22:54 |
| fysa | you sure the N800 has enough RAM for emacs? :P | 22:54 |
| bill20r3 | I have't seen an emacs dist. | 22:54 |
| czr | I'll check the log, just a moment. was uninstalling from application manager (same way that I installed) | 22:54 |
| mariorz_ | haha well im on a 770 so maybe not? | 22:54 |
| kaltsi | czr yea but is this just hello-world-app which is broken? that's part of the sdk :) | 22:54 |
| mariorz_ | but anyway nobody edits files remptely via tramp? | 22:55 |
| fysa | it should build relatively easily if you get a dev environment up. | 22:55 |
| fysa | never used tramp.. | 22:55 |
| fysa | use sshfs | 22:55 |
| czr | kaltsi, so far. but I can't verify TN brokedness yet | 22:55 |
| fysa | or rsync. | 22:55 |
| * bill20r3 uses vi | 22:55 | |
| mariorz_ | oks thanks | 22:55 |
| czr | kaltsi, dpkg/info/hello-world-app.postrm: line 11: syntax error: "(" unexpected | 22:55 |
| czr | kaltsi, error processing hello-world-app (--remove) | 22:55 |
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| czr | and so forth | 22:55 |
| kaltsi | czr ahah.. | 22:56 |
| czr | ahah indeed | 22:56 |
| czr | NAO NOT OK! | 22:56 |
| kaltsi | czr so it's bashism | 22:56 |
| fysa | shouldn't need to mess with FTP | 22:56 |
| czr | kaltsi, I'll hackerate myself into the device and check, moment | 22:56 |
| kaltsi | probably the ash shell just doesn't understand that syntax | 22:57 |
| czr | kaltsi, you mean this: conf=( "home.conf" "statusbar.conf" "tasknavigator.conf" ) | 22:57 |
| kaltsi | yep | 22:57 |
| czr | the script starts with #!/bin/sh. bleh | 22:57 |
| czr | I thought Hewlett-Packard was the only house that implemented these bugs | 22:58 |
| * czr adds Nokia to the list as well | 22:58 | |
| kaltsi | the shell on the device is ash, not bash.. as you well know | 22:58 |
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| czr | kaltsi, yes. the script should be marked as /bin/bash. not /bin/sh. | 22:58 |
| kaltsi | no-one has probably tried that on the device.. at least not uninstalling :) | 22:58 |
| czr | omfg. | 22:59 |
| czr | and the reason for the array is.. | 22:59 |
| czr | this: | 22:59 |
| czr | sed "/$home_data/d" $path/${conf[0]} > home_conf.tmp | 22:59 |
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| czr | mv blah conf[0] blah | 22:59 |
| czr | and then repeat the same command for each array entry. not in a loop even | 22:59 |
| kaltsi | czr yes or it should be rewritten in sh syntax and fixed anyways | 22:59 |
| czr | has anyone heard of 'for'-statement? :-) | 22:59 |
| czr | so. any suggestions on how to remove the package? :-) | 23:00 |
| kaltsi | modify the postrm under /var something | 23:00 |
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| czr | yup | 23:00 |
| kaltsi | and hope there's no md5sum for it somewhere else :) | 23:00 |
| czr | hmm. is there an armel package of nano anywhere? | 23:00 |
| kaltsi | yes.. in the same repo | 23:01 |
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| czr | I doubt dpkg is sophisticated enough to check md5sums on removal | 23:01 |
| kaltsi | sdk repo has nano | 23:01 |
| czr | eww. but that also pulls in libncurses5w | 23:01 |
| kaltsi | well.. | 23:01 |
| czr | I'll do it my way. | 23:01 |
| kaltsi | get nano-tiny then.. it pulls in something else :) | 23:01 |
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| czr | hah. libslang2 :-) | 23:02 |
| mariorz_ | micro-emacs ftw! | 23:02 |
| kaltsi | mariorz_: plz port emacs to the device.. I'd like that too :) | 23:02 |
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| mariorz_ | kaltsi: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1475 | 23:02 |
| mariorz_ | asl the link for the packages is dead | 23:03 |
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| czr | kaltsi, somewhat ironic that sed on the device actually supports -i, which makes the whole array thing so so so unnecessary | 23:03 |
| kaltsi | mariorz_: ok so it should be possible to take a debian package and just recompile it | 23:04 |
| Tak | zile emacs subset is already packaged for maemo | 23:04 |
| kaltsi | zile? | 23:05 |
| mariorz_ | kaltsi: id actually be happy with that tramp patch | 23:05 |
| kaltsi | hehe zile is lossy emacs :) | 23:05 |
| czr | kaltsi, uninstalled now. leaves the icon in extras | 23:05 |
| kaltsi | czr ok well that's a nice and clear bug | 23:06 |
| czr | so, device testing shows that: 1) hello-world-app is broken in scripts. 2) for some reason the TN icon doesn't work at all (diff from SDK), 3) the icon is left in place (due to the rename thingy for desktop I guess) | 23:06 |
| czr | I haven't tried rebooting the device, but I'd suspect it will come up broken as well. | 23:06 |
| czr | all the other .so:s in hello-world-app seemed to work | 23:07 |
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| czr | kaltsi, I'll append to the bug | 23:07 |
| kaltsi | ok | 23:07 |
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| czr | kaltsi, k | 23:11 |
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| kaltsi | I got the SDK also to ask for the location | 23:12 |
| kaltsi | this was the second time I installed it | 23:12 |
| czr | hmm. I've never seen that | 23:13 |
| czr | on the SDK I mean | 23:13 |
| czr | that's why it was a surprise to see it on the device | 23:13 |
| kaltsi | I guess that's when the postinst goes to that maemo-select-menu-location branch | 23:13 |
| * czr nods, but hasn't really looked at the scripts, other than the postrm | 23:14 | |
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| kaltsi | I don't know how that gets called.. which parameters does it get | 23:14 |
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| czr | it's silly btw why the applet thingies can't be integrated in any more intelligent way. sedding configuration files? evil. | 23:14 |
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| czr | and a disaster waiting to happen really | 23:14 |
| mariorz_ | kaltsi: any linkage on how i would go about recompiling the micro-emacs source tot he device? total noob here | 23:14 |
| mariorz_ | for the* | 23:14 |
| kaltsi | mariorz_: www.maemo.org/development/sdks/ .. you would need to install an SDK | 23:15 |
| mariorz_ | oks | 23:15 |
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| mariorz_ | oh wait | 23:15 |
| kaltsi | for a total noob it can be a bit intimidating but this channel or the maemo-developers mailing list can help :) | 23:16 |
| mariorz_ | need a linkux desktop for the sdk? | 23:16 |
| kaltsi | yes linuks | 23:16 |
| mariorz_ | :/ | 23:16 |
| kaltsi | a problem? | 23:16 |
| czr | mariorz_, you can also use vmware | 23:16 |
| * mariorz_ runs an ibook 64 with very little spare HD | 23:16 | |
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| mariorz_ | g4 | 23:16 |
| kaltsi | I run ubuntu in my mac mini with vmware | 23:17 |
| kaltsi | but let's see if I could compile emacs.. I can give it a try | 23:17 |
| mariorz_ | ok ill give it a try then | 23:17 |
| kaltsi | but I give up easily | 23:17 |
| mariorz_ | haha | 23:17 |
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| mariorz_ | i shoudl probably get a new mac book, and run ubuntu on this one | 23:18 |
| kaltsi | micro emacs might be a much better idea anyways.. space is limited on the device | 23:18 |
| czr | kaltsi, I think I'll let the bug ferment a bit now | 23:18 |
| mariorz_ | also suppsoedly key combinaions work better for the on screen keyboard | 23:19 |
| kaltsi | czr sure.. good hunting so far.. clearly the beast is wounded and the trail will stay fresh :) | 23:19 |
| czr | kaltsi, just to see what else will happen to it | 23:19 |
| czr | kaltsi, beast or beasts, there might be multiple. travelling in packs. of 20. :_) | 23:19 |
| czr | :-) even. for great context. | 23:19 |
| czr | kaltsi, the icon does kind of remind one of a beast. the beast of GNU | 23:19 |
| kaltsi | as long as it's not a llama | 23:20 |
| czr | hmm. that brings back colorful memories :-) | 23:20 |
| czr | anyhow, back to proper work now I guess. | 23:20 |
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| mariorz_ | is there a ftp server package? | 23:21 |
| czr | it's funny how much time one can spend just debugging/bugging without doing real work at all :-) | 23:21 |
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| Jiten | debugging/bugging is not real work? | 23:21 |
| czr | Jiten, not to me unfortunately. | 23:22 |
| kaltsi | mariorz_: ftp server package for what? | 23:22 |
| mariorz_ | for the device | 23:22 |
| czr | Jiten, real work = smt that I get paid for. | 23:22 |
| kaltsi | of what? :) | 23:22 |
| Jiten | right | 23:22 |
| Jiten | so, what do you get paid for? | 23:22 |
| mariorz_ | im thinking tramp would work if it had a ftp server installed ot connect to? | 23:22 |
| mariorz_ | 770 | 23:22 |
| kaltsi | mariorz_: ah sorry .. I thought you were looking for some package from ftp.. but you want "ftp server"-package :) | 23:23 |
| mariorz_ | k, thanks | 23:23 |
| kaltsi | heh.. sorry no I don't know if there is ftp server package | 23:23 |
| kaltsi | let's see.. | 23:24 |
| mariorz_ | oh-soh ha | 23:24 |
| kaltsi | mariorz_: have you visited this: http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2006 | 23:24 |
| kaltsi | unfortunately there's no ftp server package there.. just an ftp client | 23:24 |
| mariorz_ | yeah :/ | 23:25 |
| mariorz_ | google's got nothing | 23:25 |
| mariorz_ | nvm think i found one | 23:25 |
| mariorz_ | piblicfile | 23:26 |
| czr | Jiten, currently working on training material. but in real life I mainly work with high perf scalable algorithms dealing with I/O | 23:26 |
| mariorz_ | or public rather | 23:26 |
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| czr | Jiten, and other interesting stuff too. I/O is kind of limiting way of putting it. | 23:27 |
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| Jiten | I see, that sounds somewhat interesting. | 23:31 |
| czr | indeed. infinite ways of doing something, limited number of ways actually are good :-) | 23:32 |
| czr | and the bugs are also so much more interesting ;-) | 23:34 |
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| kaltsi | damn this emacs.. it wants to build in the mail support and there's no simple configure flag to disable that | 23:37 |
| czr | kaltsi, <jedi>"you don't want to disable any feature in emacs"</jedi> | 23:37 |
| kaltsi | except mail | 23:38 |
| czr | kaltsi, <jedi>"not even mail"</jedi> | 23:38 |
| kaltsi | well that's true | 23:38 |
| czr | <jedi>"told you so"</jedi> | 23:39 |
| josephus | <emacs> your mind tricks dont work on me young padawan </emacs> | 23:39 |
| czr | <jedi>You're missing a comma there</jedi> :-) | 23:40 |
| czr | although, introducing yourself as the object works too :-) | 23:40 |
| czr | <nano>squeek squeek</nano> | 23:40 |
| josephus | *sighs* too late for you :) | 23:40 |
| * czr goes slightly crazy | 23:40 | |
| czr | I blame bug 2312 and 2313 and 2315 and some others too | 23:40 |
| _Monkey | Bug 2312 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2312 | 23:40 |
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| czr | hmm. is the recommended way to use emacs within the sdk stiff using emacsclient? | 23:43 |
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| sp3000 | does it work? | 23:49 |
| czr | I don't know. it exists at least | 23:49 |
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| * czr is not a friend of emacs | 23:49 | |
| czr | but the material mentions it. I think it was tsavola who insisted :-) | 23:49 |
| timelyx | heh | 23:50 |
| czr | vimtutor is also mentioned. don't quite remember who wanted that included too. | 23:51 |
| czr | (it also exists in the SDK) | 23:51 |
| kaltsi | I'll use this simpler mail program to satisfy emacs: ln -s /scratchbox/tools/bin/true /usr/bin/mail | 23:51 |
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| czr | ah, the Truemailer | 23:51 |
| czr | kaltsi, that satisfies the build? :-) | 23:52 |
| kaltsi | strangely I get no spam with that | 23:52 |
| timelyx | heh | 23:52 |
| kaltsi | czr at least the configure is happy.. now it's building | 23:52 |
| czr | kaltsi, I can arrange some. you built uucp yet? ;-) | 23:52 |
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| czr | "Hello, you might be wondering why I'm sending this email since we've never met. Allow me to introduce myself, I am <bleep>, <mumble> of the recently deceased <bleep>.." | 23:53 |
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| kaltsi | hehe.. I've only ever got one of those :) | 23:53 |
| czr | I think I've learned by heart most of the variations by now :-) | 23:54 |
| czr | the sad ones still contain the template fields intact too | 23:54 |
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| czr | otoh, I'm still waiting for the "100 billion dollars"-one. | 23:54 |
| pupnik_ | yaay new upstream version of technoballz with optimizatinos for tablet | 23:57 |
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| czr | technoballz? | 23:57 |
| _Monkey | well, technoballz is working!!! | 23:57 |
| pupnik | _Monkey: forget technoballz | 23:58 |
| _Monkey | pupnik: I forgot technoballz | 23:58 |
| czr | yes, but what is it? :-) | 23:58 |
| czr | "Its called Technoballz, because its got techno things in it and balls. ..." ? | 23:59 |
| pupnik | _Monkey: technoballz is an arkanoid (pong) style game http://pupnik.de/tecnoballz770.html | 23:59 |
| _Monkey | OK, pupnik. | 23:59 |
| kaltsi | salty chocolate balls | 23:59 |
| pupnik | don't download that - new version will be up soon | 23:59 |
| czr | pupnik, you're working on that? cool | 23:59 |
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