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| Andy80 | hi all | 00:00 |
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| svu | when when when when... | 00:54 |
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| pumpkin_ | I'm having some trouble getting maemo in scratchbox working on my ubuntu gutsy | 00:58 |
| pumpkin_ | when I do apt-get update inside scratchbox, I get | 00:58 |
| pumpkin_ | W: Couldn't stat source package list http://repository.maemo.org bora/free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory) | 00:58 |
| pumpkin_ | along with some stuff about not being able to resolve repository.maemo.org | 00:59 |
| db48x | the file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-i386_Packages is missing, because it couldn't contact repository.maemo.org and so it was never created | 00:59 |
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| db48x | 99% of the time it's because you don't have dns set up correctly | 00:59 |
| czr | pumpkin_, in sbox, grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf | 01:00 |
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| czr | db48x, or to be precise, it's becase sbox setup breaks it :-) | 01:00 |
| db48x | czr: yea :) | 01:00 |
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| pumpkin_ | db48x: it says hosts: files dns | 01:01 |
| czr | pumpkin_, anyhow, replace the hosts like with this: hosts: files dns | 01:01 |
| czr | ah ok | 01:01 |
| czr | pumpkin_, what does /etc/resolv.conf say (in sbox) | 01:01 |
| pumpkin_ | hmm | 01:01 |
| pumpkin_ | has nameserver set to localhost :P | 01:01 |
| czr | ok | 01:01 |
| pumpkin_ | that doesn't sound right | 01:01 |
| pumpkin_ | lol | 01:01 |
| czr | install dnsmasq on the host ;-) | 01:01 |
| czr | then it will "magically just work" | 01:01 |
| czr | plus it has the benefit of working even if your host will get a different ip from dhcp | 01:01 |
| czr | no need to touch the resolv.conf within sbox | 01:01 |
| pumpkin_ | cool | 01:02 |
| czr | normally people modify the resolv.conf to their real dns, but it seems slightly silly when dnsmasq just fixes the whole situation | 01:02 |
| pumpkin_ | yeah | 01:02 |
| pumpkin_ | cool | 01:02 |
| Pio | yeah dnsmasq rocks | 01:02 |
| czr | btw, no need to conf dnsmasq. install will set it up with proper defaults | 01:02 |
| pumpkin_ | hmm | 01:02 |
| czr | then try doing generic ping tests within sbox to test dns | 01:02 |
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| pumpkin_ | still can't resolve it, inside my scratchbox | 01:03 |
| czr | hmmh | 01:03 |
| pumpkin_ | and sbox doesn't have ping installed :( | 01:03 |
| czr | try wget http://www.google.com/ | 01:03 |
| czr | that will do a dns resolution as well | 01:03 |
| pumpkin_ | yeah | 01:03 |
| pumpkin_ | that works, hmm | 01:03 |
| pumpkin_ | odd | 01:03 |
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| czr | you might want to reinstall the sdk though (sbox should be ok now) | 01:04 |
| czr | not sure how the "automatical install scripts" deal with dns problems. probably not all too well. | 01:04 |
| pumpkin_ | ah | 01:04 |
| czr | or try running apt-get update; apt-get -f install | 01:04 |
| * czr shrugs | 01:04 | |
| pumpkin_ | reinstalling the sdk | 01:04 |
| * czr nods | 01:04 | |
| pupnik | not including ping is a very strange thing | 01:05 |
| czr | yell if you run into more trouble :-) | 01:05 |
| pumpkin_ | thanks :) | 01:05 |
| czr | not really :-) | 01:05 |
| pumpkin_ | maybe it's just not in my path | 01:05 |
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| pupnik | sounds like a refrain from an operetta... | 01:05 |
| pumpkin_ | I'll take a look when I finish reinstalling it | 01:05 |
| czr | pumpkin_, using gutsy in couple of the test vms I have too | 01:05 |
| czr | other than the dns issue, no problems so far | 01:06 |
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| pumpkin_ | hmm | 01:07 |
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| pumpkin_ | still not resolving repository.maemo.org :-/ | 01:09 |
| pumpkin_ | wget on repository.maemo.org works fine though | 01:10 |
| pumpkin_ | boo | 01:10 |
| czr | weird | 01:11 |
| czr | do you have http_proxy set? | 01:11 |
| pumpkin_ | nope | 01:11 |
| pumpkin_ | running it in a vm though | 01:11 |
| pumpkin_ | shouldn't affect it though | 01:11 |
| czr | shouldn't be an issue | 01:11 |
| pumpkin_ | hrm | 01:11 |
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| czr | if you're on a fast link, I'd just shutdown sbox and remove the sbox packages on the host and rm -Rf /scratchbox and let the installer run again | 01:12 |
| pumpkin_ | sure, I am, | 01:12 |
| czr | you could try that. now that you have dnsmasq and all :-) | 01:13 |
| pumpkin_ | remove the sbox packages? | 01:13 |
| czr | yeah. dpkg --purge remove scratchbox* | 01:13 |
| czr | or apt-get --purge remove scratchbox* (the asterisk might actually work) | 01:13 |
| db48x | it won't | 01:13 |
| czr | oh | 01:13 |
| db48x | your shell will try to expand it as a list of filenames in the current directory | 01:13 |
| pumpkin_ | weird, how did this happen | 01:14 |
| czr | db48x, I'm assuming that cwd does not contain any names that start with that | 01:14 |
| pumpkin_ | it's not letting me delete it cause there's a circular link | 01:14 |
| czr | db48x, in that case the shell will leave the asterisk alone | 01:14 |
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| db48x | czr: better to quote it | 01:14 |
| czr | pumpkin_, hmm. did you exit sbox and shut sbox down? | 01:15 |
| czr | db48x, sure | 01:15 |
| pumpkin_ | lol, I decided to really start from scratch | 01:15 |
| pumpkin_ | and restore from a vm snapshot from just before installing maemo and scratchbox | 01:15 |
| czr | that will work too. just install dnsmasq first :-) | 01:15 |
| pumpkin_ | yup doing that now | 01:15 |
| db48x | yea | 01:16 |
| db48x | that's what I do too | 01:16 |
| pumpkin_ | can I install 3.2 directly, or do I need to do 3.1 first again? | 01:16 |
| db48x | read the readme file | 01:16 |
| czr | pumpkin_, aren't you installing 4.0? | 01:16 |
| pumpkin_ | oh I could | 01:16 |
| pumpkin_ | but I was scared away by the big beta sign on it | 01:16 |
| czr | it's not beta anymore | 01:17 |
| czr | but | 01:17 |
| czr | IT2008 is not out yet | 01:17 |
| pumpkin_ | it's fine for N800 development? | 01:17 |
| czr | so if you plan to deploy sw on ITs, it will be interesting :-) | 01:17 |
| czr | pumpkin_, not yet. unless your N800 is running 2008 | 01:17 |
| pumpkin_ | oh | 01:17 |
| pumpkin_ | so I should stick with 3.2? | 01:17 |
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| czr | probably yes | 01:17 |
| czr | I don't know when 2008 will be released for N800. | 01:18 |
| pumpkin_ | so I have to start with 3.1 and upgrade, right? | 01:18 |
| czr | yes | 01:18 |
| pumpkin_ | ah | 01:18 |
| czr | after 2008 is avail for N800, you should use 4.0/chinook. | 01:18 |
| db48x | actually, it's kinda funny | 01:19 |
| db48x | scratchbox is an attempt to avoid using a virtual machine for the whole OS | 01:19 |
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| db48x | instead using the VM just to run the single program you're developing | 01:19 |
| pumpkin_ | :P | 01:19 |
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| db48x | and yet we all run it inside a VM because it's so annoying | 01:19 |
| czr | although sbox was never meant to be a vm. just a fancy chroot | 01:20 |
| czr | but yes :-) | 01:20 |
| juh0 | is the os2008 available for n800? anyone tried flash the n800 with this firmware: RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 01:20 |
| czr | juh0, where did you get that? | 01:20 |
| juh0 | ummm downloaded it from nokia www-site | 01:21 |
| czr | ah. the RX-44 is for N810 | 01:21 |
| czr | although hmm. you can always try to flash it :-) | 01:21 |
| czr | just don't blame me if it bricks the device ;-) | 01:21 |
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| shacka1 | juh0: let us know how it goes :) | 01:24 |
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| * czr decides to hiberante | 01:26 | |
| czr | night all -. | 01:26 |
| czr | -> even. | 01:26 |
| pumpkin_ | night :) thanks for the help | 01:28 |
| ds3 | Mmmm blow away xloader...yummy | 01:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody happen to have a valid N810 WLAN MAC taking up space anywhere? :P | 01:32 |
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| pumpkin_ | boo | 01:48 |
| pumpkin_ | even after reinstalling the whole thing | 01:48 |
| pumpkin_ | it doesn't worky | 01:48 |
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| pupnik | nsswitch? | 01:49 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 01:49 |
| pumpkin_ | nsswitch.conf and resolv.conf look ok | 01:49 |
| pumpkin_ | nah, mine says files dns too | 01:49 |
| pumpkin_ | oh | 01:50 |
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| pumpkin_ | I'll go look in the host | 01:50 |
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| pumpkin_ | sweet! | 01:51 |
| pumpkin_ | thanks | 01:51 |
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| juh0 | yep it got os2008 on N800 now :D | 02:02 |
| shacka1 | woot | 02:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 02:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just now flashing. | 02:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Sweet | 02:07 |
| hephaestus_ | so has anyone tryed to install chinook on the 770? | 02:08 |
| Jiten | juh0: the n810 version worked? | 02:08 |
| juh0 | yep | 02:09 |
| juh0 | you need use linux flasher | 02:09 |
| hephaestus_ | well yeah, any tips on getting the flash image? since it is a 770 it is failing the download authentication nonesense | 02:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | The flash-2.0.macosx for OS X works, too. | 02:11 |
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| hephaestus_ | anyone know where else it is hosted or feels like giving the chanel the hardware address of an n800? | 02:14 |
| juh0 | instructions to get os2008 working on n800 http://pastebin.com/m16dd5937 | 02:15 |
| hephaestus_ | ooo, thanks juh0 | 02:17 |
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| hephaestus_ | so has anyone actually tryed Chinook on a 770? | 02:17 |
| hephaestus_ | because my 770 is running Bora now, so the hardware is not that different | 02:18 |
| juh0 | Software update for Nokia N800 tablet leaks, fans go ga-ga. http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html?tag=head | 02:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | hephaestus_, Chinook WILL NOT WORK ON THE 770. | 02:19 |
| lopz | hola | 02:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'll have to wait for an OS2008HE | 02:19 |
| * pupnik holds breath | 02:20 | |
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| doc|work | really? 2008 requires a serial number? | 02:33 |
| doc|work | !foss | 02:33 |
| db48x | doc|work: the source is still freely available | 02:33 |
| doc|work | just binaries aren't? | 02:34 |
| elb | many people have trouble with the concept of free software | 02:34 |
| db48x | yea | 02:34 |
| db48x | but it's been like that from the beginning | 02:34 |
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| doc|work | ah, ok, so, the article's fud? | 02:34 |
| * doc|work is waiting for his n800 to arrive :/ | 02:34 | |
| elb | the article is correct | 02:35 |
| db48x | which article? many of them are | 02:35 |
| elb | your exclamation about "!foss" is FUD | 02:35 |
| db48x | yea | 02:35 |
| doc|work | was a joke :/ | 02:35 |
| elb | (note that there *is* software on the Nokia tablets which is not open source, and the license they are under is available for your review) | 02:36 |
| doc|work | just seemed odd that a serial was necessary and that it might be held back to "allow the n810 to shine" | 02:36 |
| db48x | that's not so odd | 02:36 |
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| milhouse | anyone got the bogomips for an n800 running os2007? from /proc/cpuinfo | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | howto? | 02:38 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that howto is the maemo community HowTo Wiki - http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo | 02:38 |
| milhouse | cat /proc/cpuinfo | 02:38 |
| db48x | 320.37 | 02:38 |
| milhouse | BogoMIPS will be listed near the top | 02:38 |
| milhouse | no way... really? | 02:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | 388.54 | 02:39 |
| milhouse | ah yes | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | For 2008 | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right. | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 02:39 |
| milhouse | i think it's about 1:1 on clock speed | 02:39 |
| milhouse | interesting, for OS2008 mine is 160.68! :) | 02:39 |
| db48x | huh | 02:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also: return in fullscreen keyboard in xterm finally sends the command. | 02:39 |
| milhouse | 388 would approximate to the CPU running at about 400mhz I guess | 02:39 |
| db48x | so why is yours only 160? | 02:40 |
| milhouse | anyone know how to check the current CPU speed? | 02:40 |
| milhouse | db48x - looks that way! :) | 02:40 |
| milhouse | i'll reboot it and see if I get a different figure | 02:40 |
| elb | (note that bogomips are more or less completely meaningless on basically all platforms) | 02:40 |
| milhouse | i know, but pretty much all there is... | 02:41 |
| juh0 | i got 388.54 bogomips | 02:41 |
| juh0 | but wow the os2008 is really fast | 02:41 |
| milhouse | boots a damn site quicker than 2007 :) | 02:41 |
| pupnik | \p/ | 02:41 |
| milhouse | nice to see xterm included, although i'm not convinced by the "improvements" | 02:41 |
| elb | it sounds like the CPU speed change is with throttling, so your CPU won't be any given speed at any given point in time, anykway | 02:41 |
| pupnik | can't wait to see transflective screen | 02:42 |
| milhouse | booted it and bogomips is 160.68 again | 02:42 |
| pupnik | but that dpad looks... not quite game compatible | 02:42 |
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| milhouse | elb: I'm sure it's just a matter of time until someone creates a "load" type applet that displays the current frequency. or something. | 02:43 |
| milhouse | rss reader manages to show fewer items than the old version - genius! | 02:43 |
| elb | I don't know if the architecture supports it, but if what you *really* want to know is what speed the CPU is currently running, check /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq | 02:43 |
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| elb | (I do not yet have a device, so I don't know if cpufreq is accessed the same as it is on other architectures) | 02:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody have a link to the website with all the NIT repos? | 02:44 |
| milhouse | 165000 here - so that 165Mhz | 02:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Listed all the packages and such? | 02:44 |
| milhouse | s/that/thats/ | 02:44 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: 165000 here - so thats 165Mhz | 02:44 |
| milhouse | (thanks elb) | 02:44 |
| elb | if you did something CPU intensive, I presume that would crank up to as much as 400MHz | 02:44 |
| elb | cpu_max_freq and cpu_min_freq may also be informative | 02:44 |
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| hephaestus_ | so i have an interesting problem, im on a network with WPA enterprise, using tls and a User Cert/Authaurity pair, and my 770 Running bora cant seem to handel the cert correctly, when i try to connect it asks me for my cert password tehn imeadiatly fails to connect, any ideas how to get debug info for the network connection so i can start to track down the problem? | 02:45 |
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| milhouse | mine seems to bounce between 165Mhz and 400Mhz - nothing in between | 02:46 |
| elb | you would need a work load that continually utilized more than 165MHz but left the processor significantly idle at 400MHz to see something else | 02:47 |
| elb | on my laptop, I normally see either the slowest or fastest speed, as well | 02:48 |
| juh0 | 400000 here ;) | 02:48 |
| zerojay | Restoring my IT2008 backup as we speak. :D | 02:48 |
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| db48x | hmm | 02:48 |
| pupnik | I want to nitrogen cool my 770 | 02:49 |
| db48x | so what happens if I restore a backup that was taken with IT2007? | 02:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Worked fine for me, db48x. | 02:51 |
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| zerojay | Me too. | 02:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Goodness | 02:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | This thing really screams. | 02:52 |
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| hephaestus_ | anyone know the command line arguments to have the 770 or n800 connect to a network with any debug info, or where to find a logfile? | 02:53 |
| db48x | GeneralAntilles: turn the volume down | 02:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | ;) | 02:54 |
| milhouse | anyone succeeded in installing Skype on OS2008? | 02:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not I. | 02:54 |
| milhouse | so it's not just me then :) | 02:54 |
| db48x | hmm | 02:54 |
| db48x | I need to install that too. I heard that my Grandmother was complaining that I hadn't been on | 02:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 02:55 |
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| milhouse | this frequency scaling worries me - the device seems to pause briefly before it switches up to 400Mhz | 02:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Better than having no battery life. ;) | 02:57 |
| milhouse | that remains to be seen :) | 02:57 |
| doc|work | what will the new battery life be like? | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably about the same | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | More power + scaling = similar battery life. | 02:57 |
| doc|work | cool | 02:57 |
| milhouse | there must be some improvment... maybe an extra hour? | 02:58 |
| doc|work | worksforme! | 02:58 |
| doc|work | had there been no scaling before? | 02:58 |
| milhouse | none at all | 02:58 |
| doc|work | wow | 02:58 |
| elb | what do you mean by "pause briefly" ? | 02:58 |
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| elb | if you mean that there is some hysteresis, that is good | 02:58 |
| zerojay | Awesome.. "Display stays lit when charging" option! ;D | 02:58 |
| milhouse | assuming it spends most of it's time running at 165Mhz (which seems the minimum freq) instead of 330Mhz the battery will probably last a little longer than it did before... | 02:58 |
| doc|work | does watching a movie bump the cpu up? | 02:59 |
| milhouse | elb: it's like lag... maybe for half a second to a full second | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, zerojay, the LED options are a nice feature, too. | 02:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'll actually turn the damn thing on now. | 02:59 |
| elb | on most processors, there are lost cycles in changing the frequency (and lost cycles means lost power), so you don't *want* it to changae frequency for a tiny burst of CPU usage | 02:59 |
| elb | milhouse: do you mean the whole thing freezes up, or that it simply takes it a second to decide to kick up to 400MHz? | 03:00 |
| milhouse | elb: both - it seems to pause, and then it continues once it has switched up to 400Mhz | 03:00 |
| pupnik | zerojay: nice nice | 03:01 |
| milhouse | i'm just running a simple terminal session via ssh which is logging the current freq every second - that pauses too when switching up (but not down) | 03:01 |
| elb | I have a hard time believing that the whole thing freezes up when it changes frequency | 03:01 |
| elb | or that it is supposed to | 03:01 |
| milhouse | playing BBC Radio 1 real audio stream and my cpu is chugging along at 330Mhz | 03:01 |
| elb | now, accessing /sys/devices/system/cpu/... *may* pause, that's is entirely likely | 03:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not seeing the effect you're describing, milhouse. | 03:01 |
| milhouse | maybe it's something else then | 03:01 |
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| milhouse | hope it is - this freq scaling is a major feature | 03:01 |
| elb | you're not likely to learn anything *useful* watching that like a hawk ;-) | 03:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Working d-pad scrolling in MicroB is another nice one. | 03:02 |
| milhouse | Watching the Nokia N810 video and the CPU is running at 330Mhz | 03:03 |
| milhouse | might hit 400Mhz with a higher bitrate perhaps | 03:03 |
| zerojay | Different ring tones.. not more, but different ones. | 03:03 |
| zerojay | Except ring ring. | 03:03 |
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| troseph | So... Android on Nokia 770s? Can It happen? | 03:05 |
| doc|work | meh | 03:06 |
| milhouse | i find the new scrolling rss reader applet confusing - it looks like it's got a scrollbar, but you can't drag it | 03:06 |
| milhouse | and i'm lucky if i get about 5 articles per screen now | 03:06 |
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| milhouse | at least the main RSS application has improved drag scrolling - the previous versions sucked big time | 03:07 |
| zerojay | I've yet to see something I didn't like. | 03:08 |
| sp3000 | milhouse: it moves by itself, it can't be worse!!111 | 03:08 |
| * sp3000 rolls eyes | 03:08 | |
| milhouse | the presence icon looks out of place with the new monochrome status bar icons | 03:09 |
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| pupnik | has anyone here used a N810 yet? | 03:09 |
| milhouse | and there seems to be some confusion whether apps should use thin or thick scrollbars - the "look" is still a little disjointed | 03:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | SIP actually works right now. | 03:09 |
| zerojay | milhouse: It it was more outlinish, it would look better, but harder to tell if you're online or not. | 03:09 |
| zerojay | GeneralAntilles: RTCOMM. :) | 03:10 |
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| db48x | so, who is going to package openssh? | 03:10 |
| milhouse | db48x - already there | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just installed openssh | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Enable Extras | 03:10 |
| zerojay | Where? | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Application Manager | 03:10 |
| _Monkey | Application Manager is maemo's GUI over apt | 03:10 |
| milhouse | zerojay - in extra, then install it from App Manager (openssh, openssh-client or openssh-server) | 03:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not sure if I like the Mac OS-style zooming box outlines. | 03:11 |
| milhouse | openssh installs both client and server | 03:11 |
| db48x | ah, I didn't realize it was disabled | 03:11 |
| db48x | I only saw that it was in the list | 03:11 |
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| pupnik | is the feel/flow of os2008 faster for the common tasks? | 03:11 |
| zerojay | So far, it feels that way. | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Snappier | 03:12 |
| db48x | depends on your common tasks :) | 03:12 |
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| juh0 | youtube is finally usable | 03:12 |
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| zerojay | It was before. | 03:12 |
| juh0 | no it wasnt | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was | 03:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | it just wasn't optimal | 03:13 |
| zerojay | Wanna see something even better? | 03:13 |
| zerojay | Go to m.youtube.com. | 03:13 |
| zerojay | Play a video from there. | 03:13 |
| zerojay | Even smoother. | 03:13 |
| zerojay | full framerate. | 03:13 |
| zerojay | Direct in media player. | 03:13 |
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| zerojay | milhouse: I don't see extra anywhere. | 03:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | In the catalog listing | 03:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Icon is grayed | 03:15 |
| zerojay | oh, ok. | 03:15 |
| zerojay | Wonder if media player works with maemoscrobbler.. doubt it, but who knows. | 03:16 |
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| zerojay | scrobbler is stuck on 8m44s. probably needs a reboot. | 03:21 |
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| milhouse | right... one of my bugs is now fixed in OS 2008 - do i mark it as verified or closed? | 03:21 |
| milhouse | bug 1955 if anyone is interested - bug in microb | 03:21 |
| _Monkey | Bug 1955 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1955 | 03:21 |
| zerojay | milhouse: Mark it verified. | 03:21 |
| milhouse | ok ta | 03:22 |
| zerojay | milhouse: The Nokia people will close it once they are satisifed. | 03:22 |
| zerojay | Nice. | 03:23 |
| milhouse | think i'll hold off verifying any more bugs... they might freak with all these bugs being closed in an unreleased OS! :) | 03:23 |
| zerojay | lol. | 03:23 |
| zerojay | Doubt it. :) | 03:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hmmm . . . how the hell do I stop this thing from auto-capitalizing? | 03:23 |
| zerojay | There's an option. | 03:23 |
| zerojay | Always been there. | 03:23 |
| zerojay | Can't remember the name. | 03:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wasn't it in text input settings, though? | 03:24 |
| milhouse | yes | 03:24 |
| milhouse | it still is there | 03:24 |
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| zerojay | milhouse: We should probably make a list of bugs fixed so we can present it all together. | 03:24 |
| milhouse | i go through all my bugs with each new release :) | 03:25 |
| zerojay | Same here. | 03:25 |
| milhouse | all my bugs being any bug i've opened or commented against | 03:25 |
| milhouse | sadly i end up posting comments such as "Still not fixed in x.y.z" :( | 03:26 |
| zerojay | Yeah, i know the feeling. | 03:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | "Handwriting case correction" != "Auto-capitalize" | 03:27 |
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| zerojay | PDF reader allows page switching in full screen mode with left or right on the d-pad. | 03:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | xterm seems to be cloning my text entry in the thumbboard | 03:27 |
| milhouse | i mean how difficult is it to change "clips" to "songs" in media player? bug 1064 is typical of Nokia and their "specifications", makes me mad... | 03:27 |
| _Monkey | Bug 1064 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1064 | 03:27 |
| zerojay | milhouse: People here call them clips as well. | 03:28 |
| milhouse | i've never heard anyone call a song a clip - a film, yes, but not a song | 03:28 |
| milhouse | where is here, btw? | 03:28 |
| zerojay | Here they do.. here being Canada. | 03:28 |
| milhouse | wierdos | 03:28 |
| milhouse | :) | 03:29 |
| elb | "clip" means something different from song, here (en_US) | 03:29 |
| zerojay | But it's something that french people do more than english here. | 03:29 |
| milhouse | that might make sense - it's not really an english term at all | 03:29 |
| zerojay | I'll bet it's just a mistranslation that never got fixed. | 03:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's the root password? | 03:29 |
| _Monkey | the root password is rootme | 03:29 |
| elb | a "clip" is a perfectly normal term for an audio file, but it implies that it is only part of a larger work | 03:29 |
| elb | like, the first 30s might be a "clip" | 03:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lies, _Monkey. | 03:29 |
| _Monkey | GeneralAntilles: sorry... | 03:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I've never heard anybody refer to a "song" as a "clip" or a collection of music as "clips" | 03:30 |
| milhouse | elb: possibly, but i'd associate clips more strongly with movie/film media than audio which has a clear and simple term of reference on a media player - song (or track) | 03:30 |
| zerojay | Who wants to try internet call? ;) | 03:30 |
| elb | right, for a complete piece, "song" is obviously the correct term | 03:30 |
| db48x | hrm | 03:30 |
| zerojay | Just a minute or two to try it out. :) | 03:30 |
| elb | but "audio clip" is a normal and often-used term -- just misplaced, here | 03:31 |
| db48x | no more typing suggestions in xterms? | 03:31 |
| milhouse | although of course not all tracks will be songs, could be audio books so track might be a more general and still accurate term :) | 03:31 |
| milhouse | my point is though, that it's probably taken longer to debate the point in bugzilla than it would to actually fix the bug in the first place - which hasn't been fixed! :) | 03:31 |
| zerojay | Internet call now disables and greys out contacts not on Jabber/Gmail or does not have a phone number associated. | 03:32 |
| db48x | ah, completions were simply turned off | 03:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Any clues on the root password? | 03:32 |
| milhouse | rootme? | 03:32 |
| _Monkey | rootme is the default pw? | 03:32 |
| milhouse | same as always | 03:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | rootme isn't work. :\ | 03:32 |
| milhouse | you sure you're logging in as root? worked for me... | 03:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | *+ing | 03:33 |
| db48x | get into rd mode and use 'sudo gainroot' | 03:33 |
| pupnik | can maemomapper show a cached satellite pic while offline? | 03:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | It always has been able to, yes. | 03:34 |
| pupnik | ok ty | 03:34 |
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| milhouse | d-pad scrolling in the browser seems to work well | 03:39 |
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| pupnik | i'm trying to imagine my thumb being able to hit dpad-up and it's not working | 03:40 |
| milhouse | yeah could be tricky on an n810, plus any key on the top row | 03:41 |
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| K`zan | Hi Folks, thinking (seriously) about getting an N800 and am trying to figure out what is available for it - would like to replace my Palm Z31 with it, things like jpilot and perhaps kontact - dunno yet :-). Much to learn. | 03:42 |
| K`zan | Just gonna read the mail for a bit here... | 03:42 |
| milhouse | check the itt website it now has a palm os forum | 03:43 |
| K`zan | Thanks, but I am pretty fed up with Palm, they used to be stellar, but that was a while back - buggy hardware and software do not inspire me, but linux embedded does :-)! | 03:45 |
| K`zan | FBReader is a BIG plus :-) considering I probably use the Z31 for more of an ebook reader than anything else. | 03:45 |
| K`zan | Organizer and scheduler I can sync with the desktop would loosen my wallet NOW :-). | 03:46 |
| K`zan | Looking at apps over on the maemo site now. | 03:46 |
| K`zan | Kind of confused at this point - is the 2007 OS Nokia or maemo, appear to be the same?!? | 03:47 |
| milhouse | it's the same | 03:47 |
| pupnik | the os itself is called ITOS. ITOS 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 | 03:48 |
| milhouse | and Maemo is the organisation that creates each IT OS, staffed by Nokia employees | 03:49 |
| K`zan | Coolness, thanks! Was introduced to the 770 and I like that a lot, but the 800 seems a bit cheezier and the 810 worse :-(. | 03:49 |
| K`zan | Smart folks :-)! Appreciated too. | 03:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 is the way to go | 03:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't bother with the N810 | 03:49 |
| * K`zan linux junkie / freak / affectionado :). | 03:50 | |
| pupnik | looking forward to having you around to test software | 03:50 |
| K`zan | Thanks, that is the impression I get too, primarily beacause of the RS-MMC that are either unobtanium or damned expensive :-). | 03:50 |
| K`zan | WOuld be glad to help out where I can - always with linux :-)!!!! | 03:51 |
| pupnik | all options are good. 770, N800, N810 - for different reasons | 03:51 |
| K`zan | Like the physical aspects of the 770 better than the 800, but.... | 03:51 |
| K`zan | Must be why they make so many different types :). | 03:51 |
| K`zan | Big fingers :-). | 03:52 |
| pupnik | yeah 770 is a rock. dropped mine many times | 03:52 |
| K`zan | Sad thing is that it is about a wash price wise by the time one adds an RS-MMC :-(. | 03:52 |
| pupnik | really? what is 2GB rsmmc? | 03:52 |
| K`zan | up to 16G on the 800 is rather impressive :-). | 03:52 |
| pupnik | +price | 03:53 |
| K`zan | I forget now, but MUCH more than a 2G SD card. | 03:53 |
| K`zan | That is what has had me balking on getting the 800, but I am now about a 10th of a nats wisker from ordering it :-). | 03:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, maybe, but not when you consider price. :P | 03:53 |
| pupnik | the N800 also runs a bunch of games that the 770 cant quite handle | 03:53 |
| K`zan | 800 is faster too. | 03:53 |
| deejoe | I've only dropped my n800 once. | 03:54 |
| deejoe | so far, so good. | 03:54 |
| K`zan | If I can use it as a pda with the desktop stuff, that clenches the deal... | 03:54 |
| deejoe | it's the requisite "must drop each mobile device at least one time" | 03:54 |
| pupnik | dunno who here knows about syncing scheduler - ITT forums is the best place to search for that stuff | 03:54 |
| pupnik | hah | 03:54 |
| K`zan | REAL tired of the screen requiring constant calibration on the Z31 (or screwing around to compensate for it). | 03:55 |
| pupnik | if you're outside much, the N810 screen is said to be daylight readable | 03:55 |
| K`zan | First thing I do with anything new anymore is scratch it with a key so I am over worrying about it all :-) Lol1 | 03:55 |
| pupnik | gah | 03:55 |
| K`zan | That would be nice, the Z31 is completely useless in that department... | 03:55 |
| K`zan | Old Vx/C3 was quite usable. | 03:56 |
| pupnik | so is my psion netbook (dstn tft) | 03:56 |
| elb | that was really nice about the old school palms with their B&W displays | 03:56 |
| pupnik | yes, and the psion mx5 too | 03:56 |
| K`zan | Yep and batteries lasted FOREVER. | 03:56 |
| elb | you could use them absolutely anywhere | 03:56 |
| K`zan | Yep, unlike the Z31 | 03:56 |
| elb | yeah, I put new AAAs in my IIIc ... seldom | 03:56 |
| K`zan | :-). Ran the C3 for years and battery was never a problem. | 03:56 |
| elb | maybe 2-3 times a *year* | 03:57 |
| K`zan | I use it a LOT more for an ebook reader than anything else. | 03:57 |
| elb | of course, the old Palms cheated, a bit, in that they went to sleep after just a few ms of idle time | 03:57 |
| K`zan | Good for something to do in checkout lines :). | 03:57 |
| elb | and the only thing that was refreshed was that cheap, cheap, cheap LCD | 03:57 |
| K`zan | Yep, true, no color, only 8M of flash.... | 03:57 |
| K`zan | Shame palm has gotten so sleezy since then :-(. | 03:58 |
| milhouse | are maps downloading for anyone? | 03:58 |
| milhouse | my download progress bar is stuck and not moving | 03:58 |
| K`zan | Wonder if gpsdrive or roadnav works on the 800?!? | 03:58 |
| elb | there is a GPS kit for the 800 | 03:59 |
| K`zan | Would be nice to plug in the GPSMAP76CS. | 03:59 |
| elb | which includes software, the GPS unit, and maps | 03:59 |
| elb | (I think OS2008 will have the maps built-in, yes?) | 03:59 |
| K`zan | Already spent my GPS fortune on the Garmin :-/. | 03:59 |
| milhouse | aha it's advancing very very slowly (the map download progress bar) :) | 04:00 |
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| elb | heh I carry an eTrex Legend with me everywhere I go | 04:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | K`zan, maemo mapper | 04:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | or Navicore | 04:00 |
| K`zan | GeneralAntilles: Thanks, good to know. | 04:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wouldn't bother with the kit | 04:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Get an i-blue 737 or some other MTK based bluetooth GPS | 04:00 |
| K`zan | Silly newbie question, can one raid the debian / ubuntu repositories for stuff for the n800 or only maemo? Yeah, I really am seriously ignorant at this point and working hard to resolve it :).' | 04:01 |
| K`zan | GeneralAntilles: Hadn't thought of that - nicer package wise. | 04:01 |
| juh0 | you need to download maps if you use n800 and os2008, i just tested bluetooth gps receiver with os2008's wayfinder | 04:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | The debian stuff has to be recompiled | 04:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | not 100% straightforward | 04:02 |
| K`zan | Heh, not even sure which OS the one I am lookjng at comes with, but that appears not to be a problem. | 04:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | the GUI stuff has to be ported for Hildon | 04:02 |
| K`zan | Makes sense, There is an SDK I notice. | 04:02 |
| derf | K`zan: They're a good starting point but you'll generally need to do some repackaging, even for non-GUI things. | 04:02 |
| K`zan | Currently running fedora, which I am not sure I'll stick with at this point. | 04:02 |
| K`zan | derf: Not a great problem, unlike the Palm crap, I have a far better start with the n800, I think. | 04:03 |
| K`zan | brv | 04:04 |
| K`zan | brb | 04:04 |
| pupnik | try sidux! a modern, free debian sid without the instability. | 04:05 |
| K`zan | Best price I have seen is from buy.com - $228. | 04:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | 218 | 04:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | there's a $10 off floating around | 04:06 |
| K`zan | Got that too :) | 04:07 |
| K`zan | All I got to do is check out.... | 04:07 |
| pupnik | crazy cheap | 04:07 |
| K`zan | Might as well do it :-). | 04:07 |
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| K`zan | No open WIFI around here other than mine (open to me) and doing internet stuff through AT&T (any cell?) is god awful expensive :-(. | 04:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | $20 for unlimited last time I checked | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | As long as you overlook the whole "no tethering" part. | 04:09 |
| K`zan | Haven't considered it because the cell phone just sucks for that (razor v3xx). | 04:10 |
| K`zan | No tethering? As in running an access point NATted through it? | 04:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | bluetooth | 04:10 |
| pupnik | some ppl have reported headaches with pairing stability with razrs | 04:11 |
| K`zan | How else you going to do that? Other than BT? | 04:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Motorolas of any kind are garbage | 04:11 |
| K`zan | BT modem I think it is. | 04:11 |
| K`zan | All the choices for the "free" phones suck, the razor just sucked least - all I wanted that for at the time was a PHONE :-). | 04:11 |
| K`zan | At least with the razor I don't have to confirm EVERYTHING I do by BT. | 04:12 |
| elb | yes, phones should just be phones | 04:12 |
| elb | phone/camera/mp3 player/PIM/blah blah blah is stupid | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Depends on the brand | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Treos are stupid | 04:13 |
| K`zan | Agree, because I have to have a cell (disabled partner) I hate both the provider and the phone... | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | blackberries are pretty terrible | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the Nokia smartphones are awesomely badass | 04:13 |
| K`zan | Noticed that, can't imagine why anyone would want one. | 04:13 |
| K`zan | No nokias unf, my old Nokia (no longer supported) I loved. | 04:13 |
| elb | I want a phone that's just a phone | 04:13 |
| K`zan | Me too. | 04:13 |
| elb | one of those third-world jobs with the B&W sunlight-readable displays would RULE | 04:14 |
| elb | but they don't sell them here :-P | 04:14 |
| K`zan | I *resent* dumping something on me that is crippled "for security" (my arse). Verizon was really offensive about that. | 04:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | My Samsung AGH-A717 was only $50 | 04:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | 3g is fun. :D | 04:14 |
| K`zan | Fun, but EXPENSIVE as hell. | 04:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | $20/mo | 04:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not really that expensive | 04:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially for what I'm getting | 04:15 |
| K`zan | $50 for the phone a month is about what I pay for comcast cable... | 04:15 |
| elb | heh I pay $23/line/month for my cell phones | 04:15 |
| K`zan | That screen sucks out loud for net work. | 04:15 |
| K`zan | elb: hate you :). | 04:15 |
| elb | $20/mo would be doubling the pirce ;-) | 04:15 |
| pupnik | N800 is too cheap. | 04:15 |
| elb | K`zan: you could, too, if you have AT&T wireless ... you'd just have to have 5-6 lines ;-) | 04:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | What, tempted, pupnik? :P | 04:16 |
| * K`zan HATES AT&T / Cingular / AT&T/... | 04:16 | |
| elb | they've been ok to me | 04:16 |
| K`zan | But they were better than the other choices :-/. | 04:16 |
| elb | I had Sprint before, they were a nightmare | 04:16 |
| K`zan | Overall | 04:16 |
| K`zan | They all are screw jobs, just how does one want to be screwed (or raped...). | 04:16 |
| elb | yeah | 04:17 |
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| elb | "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." | 04:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 04:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | I had Nextel back in the day | 04:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | They had great phones and great service | 04:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | then they went to shit about a year before the merger | 04:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Now I have AT&T and I really like it. | 04:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good coverage, good service, good prices. | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | (comparatively, at least ;)) | 04:18 |
| K`zan | Service on G3 is a hell! of a lot better than the TDMA I had. | 04:18 |
| K`zan | Yep, as I said, overall better than the rest. | 04:18 |
| K`zan | And I get rollover :) | 04:18 |
| juh0 | i got unlimited 3G data plan 10 euros per month, love it | 04:18 |
| K`zan | Here in the US t hey rape you for that, cheapest I've seen was about $30 for some piddling amount. | 04:19 |
| K`zan | NOT.WORTH.IT... | 04:19 |
| elb | mobile phone service sucks in the US, period | 04:19 |
| K`zan | I'll browse from home, thankyouverymuch. | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | $20/month for unlimited 3g access, K`zan. With AT&T ;) | 04:19 |
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| K`zan | elb: You are WAY too kind. | 04:19 |
| K`zan | GeneralAntilles: Sure didn't find that under any data plan when I looked. | 04:20 |
| elb | having had phones in the US, Japan, and Russia ... we get the short end of the stick | 04:20 |
| elb | if all you do is a lot of voice calls, the US is the place to be | 04:20 |
| K`zan | Byting bullet and ordering the N800 now.... | 04:20 |
| elb | but if you want to use SMS or data ... | 04:20 |
| K`zan | Yep, but net access is a BAD joke here. | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Get yourself a couple SD cards ASAP | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | 8GB SDHC is the best price point | 04:20 |
| elb | (I note with amusement that Amazon says the N810 "works only with Cingular or T-Mobile service" | 04:21 |
| K`zan | GeneralAntilles: At this point the N800 is going to break me, will prolly pull the 2G card out of the phone and the 1G out of the camera for now. | 04:21 |
| K`zan | LOL, seen the N800 listed as "unlocked" too :-), been pricing it for a while. | 04:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Error reporting for repo issues is much improved. You can see which ones are having trouble and edit them from the error dialog. | 04:29 |
| K`zan | Should have it in 2 business days :). | 04:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo | 04:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'grats. :) | 04:31 |
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| K`zan | Thanks, I've been agonizing over it for 2 weeks now, time to get off the pot :). | 04:32 |
| K`zan | After two weeks, I *am* serious :-) | 04:32 |
| K`zan | Adding #maemo to xchat for freenode :). | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'll learn a LOT in here. | 04:33 |
| K`zan | Much appreciate that! Hopefully!!! I'll be able to help and give some back too. | 04:34 |
| * K`zan does indeed have MUCH to learn... | 04:34 | |
| K`zan | Got it from them with 2 day shipping cheaper than anyplace else, hope I didn't save too much, if you know what I mean... | 04:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | buy.com is reliable | 04:36 |
| K`zan | Glad to hear that, normally I get everything from newegg... | 04:36 |
| K`zan | GeneralAntilles: Thanks for staving off the after purchase paranoia LOL! | 04:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 04:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | newegg was carrying the N800 a few weeks ago for a couple days at $399.99. | 04:37 |
| K`zan | I really am looking forward to this thing :-) got to be more fun than the WAPs with linux :). | 04:37 |
| K`zan | Noticed that, normally they have pretty good prices and I have NEVER had a complaint with service from them. | 04:38 |
| K`zan | But will it run FGFS ;-)? | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Get to stocking up on ebooks for FBReader. | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | rtf/txt/html is what I recommend | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Flight Gear? | 04:38 |
| K`zan | Yes :-) | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 04:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | 'course not. :P | 04:39 |
| K`zan | Got 2.7G worth of ebooks in the library. | 04:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Plane is better, anyway. | 04:39 |
| K`zan | Well then just FORGET IT :). | 04:39 |
| K`zan | Well, if it run xplane, then I'll byte the bullet and live with it ;-). | 04:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 04:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Accelerated OpenGL would make me very happy. | 04:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | We have the hardware but not the drivers. <_< | 04:40 |
| K`zan | :-( | 04:40 |
| K`zan | Would be fun to fly someplace (heh, not) and fly along :-). | 04:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 04:41 |
| K`zan | Until they really do something with security, I ain't flying nowhere :-). | 04:41 |
| K`zan | My poor wilted credit card :-/. | 04:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I actually did that once on a Powerbook on a flight from Tampa to Tallahassee. | 04:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | (I won) | 04:41 |
| K`zan | 2 4G SD cards next month. | 04:41 |
| K`zan | LOL | 04:41 |
| pupnik | TSA should make everyone strip and do a body cavity search in front of the waiting passengers | 04:41 |
| K`zan | Obviously you didn't have to deal with ATC :) | 04:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, everybody should have to fly naked. | 04:42 |
| pupnik | yeah | 04:42 |
| K`zan | Only those that look like people who routinely do the kind of crap that makes security necessary... | 04:42 |
| K`zan | You would be surpised what people can pull out of their arse :). | 04:42 |
| K`zan | Grew up around a hospital... | 04:43 |
| K`zan | Ewwww. :-) | 04:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | <_> | 04:43 |
| pupnik | btw how many people has the TSA killed so far? | 04:43 |
| K`zan | Heh, only old folks, WASPs and children... | 04:43 |
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| K`zan | I guess this would be a good time to spend reading through the user manual I downloaded a lot more seriously than I have been :-). | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Manual's mostly a waste of time. | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good teaser I guess, though. | 04:46 |
| K`zan | Really? Better source? Or just wait and play (like I do with everything else :-)? | 04:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/ | 04:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | and browse the archives of ITT | 04:47 |
| K`zan | You mean maemo.org == ITT ? | 04:48 |
| K`zan | New folder and bookmarked tabletschool... Thanks! | 04:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com | 04:49 |
| K`zan | Thank you Sir! | 04:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | tabletblog.com isn't a bad one to stay on top of the news | 04:50 |
| K`zan | Will put it on my daily rounds until I get to be an expert guru ;-)! | 04:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody have a Jaiku invite to toss over here? | 05:02 |
| Syntra | Hey guys | 05:06 |
| Syntra | Has anyone ever used a USB keyboard on the N800? | 05:06 |
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| unique311 | GeneralAntilles, i can send you one | 05:10 |
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| unique311 | i have 8 left....anyone want a jaiku invite...just pm me. | 05:13 |
| K`zan | Heh, will have to look that up to see what it is :). | 05:19 |
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| lopz | hola | 05:21 |
| Syntra | A response to my question would be nice, if anyone has one. | 05:23 |
| deejoe | Syntra: yes | 05:23 |
| Syntra | Wicked! | 05:23 |
| Syntra | It worked and everything? | 05:23 |
| deejoe | for some value of "everything" | 05:23 |
| deejoe | I've used an apple bt keyboard and a thinkoutside folding keyboard | 05:23 |
| Syntra | Sweet | 05:24 |
| deejoe | on the thinkoutside keyboard, several of the keys are supposed to be accessible by hitting the blue Fn key | 05:24 |
| deejoe | however, it gets intercepted somehow by the n800 and so hitting Fn causes a menu to pop up instead of allowing use of, say, PgUp or Esc | 05:24 |
| Syntra | Hmm | 05:25 |
| deejoe | but largely, yeah, it works. | 05:25 |
| Syntra | Thats odd | 05:25 |
| Syntra | The apple one works fine though, right? | 05:25 |
| deejoe | yeah | 05:25 |
| Syntra | Thats the one I'm looking at | 05:25 |
| deejoe | though it's a bit bulky for my purposes. | 05:25 |
| deejoe | its fairly cheap and ubiquitous | 05:25 |
| Syntra | Ahh I don't care too much about size. | 05:25 |
| deejoe | well, not ubiquitous, but not that hard to find. | 05:26 |
| Syntra | Yeah | 05:26 |
| Syntra | I've found it | 05:26 |
| Syntra | 55$ is the cheapest I've found it for. | 05:26 |
| deejoe | I was disappointed that Logitech is selling so many "wireless keyboards" with proprietary usb dongles. | 05:26 |
| deejoe | 55$ sounds about right. | 05:27 |
| Syntra | Yeah | 05:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I know, deejoe, what's with the trend away from Bluetooth for input devices these days? | 05:28 |
| deejoe | logitech must figure they can get away with it. | 05:31 |
| deejoe | maybe they save on licensing, too. | 05:31 |
| elb | bluetooth is pretty darn crappy | 05:32 |
| elb | obviously designed by telephone people | 05:32 |
| jacques | I've been trying to find a logitech 470 BT mouse for months, all the stores have 450s only | 05:32 |
| Syntra | Internet? | 05:33 |
| _Monkey | Internet is in a loop? :-) | 05:33 |
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| monarch | hello all | 05:35 |
| monarch | How is it going in here tonight? | 05:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just enjoying OS2008. | 05:35 |
| monarch | yeah, yeah, yeah | 05:35 |
| monarch | I am hoping to get mine soon ;-) | 05:36 |
| monarch | I am still on the 770 | 05:36 |
| monarch | I am looking at getting an N810 when it is available in the US | 05:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Way too expensive. | 05:37 |
| monarch | it is currently, yes | 05:38 |
| monarch | but it should come down in price over the next several months | 05:38 |
| monarch | I am looking at replacing my Wifes 770 with an 800 | 05:39 |
| deejoe | the nice thing about the n810 coming out is what it did to the n800 price | 05:39 |
| deejoe | ;-) | 05:39 |
| pupnik | N800 is too cheap. | 05:40 |
| monarch | I am actually one of the ones on the device program | 05:40 |
| pupnik | but cheap = more sales and more devs hopefully | 05:40 |
| monarch | my wife is going to get the n800 because of the two SD card slots | 05:40 |
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| pupnik | yeah better for media playback | 05:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | How do you figure, pupnik? | 05:41 |
| pupnik | how can i explain cheaper = more sales | 05:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | No, how it's "too cheap" | 05:42 |
| pupnik | oh i am just complaining cause i spent like 400 bucks for the 770 | 05:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 05:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I spent $380 for the 770 _and_ $400 for the N800. :P | 05:42 |
| monarch | pupnik: I spent 450 for the 770 | 05:42 |
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| monarch | I bought the $90 replacement plan along with the 770 | 05:43 |
| monarch | I have put it threw its paces though ;-) | 05:43 |
| pupnik | yeah, the only alternative for me would have been a zaurus for more money | 05:43 |
| monarch | I have read several Tarzan books on it, as well as the scheduling, etc | 05:44 |
| monarch | ;-) | 05:44 |
| monarch | finally have GPE Calander that makes a sound during alarm | 05:44 |
| monarch | so that is cool | 05:44 |
| nightwriter | well with a 770 and an n800 ... and now the n810 on the horizon... I wonder if you can cluster them ;) | 05:44 |
| pupnik | have you looked at all the PIM style apps? i think the leaders are GPE and 'pimco' or something like that | 05:44 |
| monarch | nightwriter: that'd be COOL | 05:44 |
| monarch | i have the latest GPE | 05:45 |
| pupnik | <slashdot>"imagine a beowulf cluster of..."</slashdot> | 05:45 |
| pupnik | happy with it monarch ? | 05:45 |
| monarch | not the one from garage, but the ones from somewhere in the internet ether | 05:45 |
| nightwriter | After today where we raid 5'd 6 1G key drives... anything is possible I guess | 05:45 |
| monarch | pupnik: it scared the shit out of me the first time the damn alarm went off | 05:46 |
| monarch | I was so used to it being quit | 05:46 |
| monarch | quiet | 05:46 |
| monarch | during alarms | 05:46 |
| monarch | totally unexpected ;-) | 05:46 |
| tuxthepenguin | Anyone here installed Maemo SDK (in particular maemo-explicit package) 3.0 and willing to help me with ideas on a problem I'm having installing ? | 05:50 |
| tuxthepenguin | err 3.1...my goal is to setup 3.2 but it says install 3.1 first | 05:50 |
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| tuxthepenguin | the directions say to install maemo-explicit for both targets (X86 and ARMEL) | 05:51 |
| vabgeo | hi all, is support of glade removed from chinook? | 05:53 |
| tuxthepenguin | X86 went fine but ARMEL failed with a post install error during the install of hildon-input-method - apparently it tries to run an app as part of the post-install configuration process. That executable will not run (of course) because I am inside scratchbox and on an X86 machine - the app it wants to run in that scratchbox is of course an ARMEL binary so won't run. | 05:53 |
| monarch | pupnik: I am using the GPE files from http://www.cobb.uk.net/apt/ | 05:53 |
| monarch | on the 770 the repository entry is: | 05:54 |
| monarch | http://www.cobb.uk.net/apt/ | 05:54 |
| monarch | Dist: gregale Comp: user | 05:54 |
| tuxthepenguin | Do I need to anyone have any ideas? Do I need to setup my tablet as a transparent target and plug it in - or something like that??? | 05:54 |
| tuxthepenguin | Err i meant to start that as "Anyone have any ideas"...followed by my question "Do I need..." | 05:55 |
| pupnik | ty monarch | 05:57 |
| monarch | np | 05:57 |
| K`zan | Appreciate you folks that can afford to ride the bleeding edge, makes things like the n800 possible for us poor folks :). | 05:58 |
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| pupnik | tuxthepenguin: you install the armel root filesystem from a tgz file right? | 05:58 |
| tuxthepenguin | pupnik: I didn't, it must have been the SDK install script which did it? | 06:00 |
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| pupnik | i created the target with sb-menu | 06:01 |
| pupnik | then i pointed it to a downloaded root filesystem in the form of a tgz file | 06:01 |
| pupnik | what scratchbox are you using? | 06:01 |
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| tuxthepenguin | apophis R4 | 06:02 |
| tuxthepenguin | i just followed the directions in the maemo install docs which started by saying how to install scratchbox using a script | 06:04 |
| tuxthepenguin | then indicated i needed to install maemo SDK 3.0, so i used that automated install script next (I used the automated scratchbox setup too) | 06:04 |
| tuxthepenguin | wait let me restart that summary | 06:05 |
| tuxthepenguin | 1) followed directions and installed scratchbox | 06:05 |
| tuxthepenguin | 2) used automated install for maemo SDK 3.0 | 06:06 |
| tuxthepenguin | 3) used automated install to put nokia binaries in place | 06:06 |
| tuxthepenguin | 4) installed maemo-explicit to x86 target | 06:06 |
| tuxthepenguin | 5) attempted to install maemo-explicit to ARMEL target | 06:07 |
| tuxthepenguin | that's it in a nutshell... | 06:07 |
| tuxthepenguin | should I have grabbed a root file system at some point? was it part of one of the automated installs? | 06:07 |
| pupnik | i don't have experience with that | 06:07 |
| pupnik | no idea what 'maemo-explicit' is | 06:08 |
| tuxthepenguin | you installed using a different process than the documentation describes? | 06:08 |
| tuxthepenguin | What did you do and where did you find the info? | 06:08 |
| pupnik | i have an older scratchbox | 06:08 |
| tuxthepenguin | ahh! | 06:08 |
| pupnik | i think they changed the process a bit | 06:08 |
| tuxthepenguin | ok which one: 2.0? 3.0? | 06:08 |
| pupnik | Version: 1.0.7 | 06:10 |
| tuxthepenguin | (oops just noticed I said maemo 3.0 again - I am actually installing 3.1 so I can upgrade immediately to 3.2 - this is a clean install inside a nice user mode linux box) | 06:10 |
| tuxthepenguin | Wow! | 06:10 |
| tuxthepenguin | that's pretty old i suspect | 06:10 |
| pupnik | scratchbox version != maemo version | 06:10 |
| tuxthepenguin | ahh yes... my mistake | 06:11 |
| tuxthepenguin | ok | 06:11 |
| pupnik | interesting uml | 06:11 |
| pupnik | i use this soemtimes - might have some problems with scratchbox actually | 06:11 |
| tuxthepenguin | which maemo SDK do you have? | 06:12 |
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| tuxthepenguin | did you install the nokia binaries too? | 06:12 |
| pupnik | gregale, which is 2.2 i think | 06:12 |
| tuxthepenguin | I didn't mention it - but I also installed Xephyr - seems to work fine.. | 06:13 |
| pupnik | if you are following instructions exactly and getting strange errors, i fear it could be related to the UML | 06:13 |
| tuxthepenguin | I kind of doubt it -the messages seem quite clear | 06:13 |
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| pupnik | "<tuxthepenguin> did you install the nokia binaries too?" i can not map this to my semantic grid | 06:14 |
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| monarch | have fun | 06:15 |
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| tuxthepenguin | the debian package is running a script (some sort of post-install process to configure things) - it tries to run an application which is present but is an ARMEL binary. when that fails, the post-install fails - this prevents other packages scheduled for installation to fail to install | 06:15 |
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| tuxthepenguin | pupnik: the directions indicate there are proprietary binaries from nokia that are provided so that you can run some of the commonly shipped apps on your tablet, in this dev environment - things like the control panel, the general window manager etc. | 06:17 |
| tuxthepenguin | they point at an automated install script which will install theses in the scratchbox targets | 06:18 |
| tuxthepenguin | please see these urls for the directions I'm following to get this all setup | 06:18 |
| tuxthepenguin | http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo-3-x--bora-.html | 06:19 |
| tuxthepenguin | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.2/maemo-sdk-relnotes_3.2.txt | 06:19 |
| tuxthepenguin | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.2/INSTALL.txt | 06:19 |
| tuxthepenguin | http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.1/INSTALL.txt | 06:19 |
| tuxthepenguin | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/3.1/maemo-scratchbox-install_3.1.sh | 06:19 |
| tuxthepenguin | http://repository.maemo.org/stable/3.2 | 06:19 |
| pupnik | ahhhhhh | 06:19 |
| tuxthepenguin | I succeeded with a previous install (SDK 2.0? 3.0) under uml | 06:19 |
| pupnik | i never installed that stuff | 06:20 |
| pupnik | thanks for the explornation | 06:20 |
| tuxthepenguin | pupnik: are you doing maemo development for the tablet? *I'm puzzled* | 06:20 |
| pupnik | sure, i build the stuff, copy it to the tablet, then test | 06:20 |
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| tuxthepenguin | which tablet? | 06:21 |
| pupnik | er... doing development - not so much. just some demo and performance test apps - mostly just porting and tweaking proggs | 06:21 |
| pupnik | http://pupnik.de/software.html | 06:21 |
| _Monkey | hmmm... http://pupnik.de/software.html is the WIP page | 06:21 |
| pupnik | 770 | 06:21 |
| tuxthepenguin | ahh ok i see - you don't test on your pc, you just copy it over to see if it works - must be pretty tedious when you need to debug | 06:22 |
| pupnik | got gdb on the tablet | 06:22 |
| pupnik | 'ain't nuthin like the real thing baybe' | 06:22 |
| tuxthepenguin | :-) | 06:23 |
| tuxthepenguin | Looks like you have been pretty busy porting things including the Palm Emulator - I should check that out - actually first I want to checkout the garnet port | 06:24 |
| pupnik | garnet is supposedly better | 06:24 |
| pupnik | garnetvm? | 06:25 |
| _Monkey | i think garnetvm is available from Access, direct deb downloads 770: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n770.deb, N800 http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n800.deb and N810: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n810.deb | 06:25 |
| tuxthepenguin | pupnik: thank's for your assistance. I'm not sure there is much you can do since you don't know the maemo stuff I'm trying to setup | 06:25 |
| tuxthepenguin | monkey: yes | 06:25 |
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| pupnik | you're welcome, and sorry if i wasted your time - didn't quite get what you were doing at first | 06:25 |
| tuxthepenguin | pupnik: no problem. | 06:26 |
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| tuxthepenguin | any other developers here? - some which use maemo please? | 06:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | is "Double press" a new option in mce.ini? | 06:36 |
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| K`zan | At what point does the SDHC thing become an issue for SD cards? 4G ? | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are both kinds for 4GB | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the N800 will handle any SD card just fine. | 06:38 |
| zerojay | Anyone happen to know where the list of contacts is stored on the N800? | 06:39 |
| zerojay | I want to blow my contacts away and start fresh. | 06:40 |
| K`zan | OK, Thanks, somewhere I got the impression that above some value you needed SDHC for the cards to work. | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, yeah | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | but the N800 supports SDHC just fine | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | so it's not an issue. | 06:40 |
| K`zan | Err, sorry to be dense, but if it doesn't matter what is the point of SDHC?!? | 06:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | It matters for addressing the card blocks | 06:42 |
| K`zan | Perhaps older stuff that did't know about the limit (forget what it was now). | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | It doesn't matter for you buying cards to put into your N800. | 06:42 |
| K`zan | Like my camera or the palm. | 06:42 |
| K`zan | Ok, looks like about $41/4G from newegg. | 06:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | SD addresses by byte and SDHC by sector | 06:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a difference on the card and in the software | 06:43 |
| K`zan | If I have a choice would I be wiser to get the SDHC? | 06:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | so it matters on older devices which don't have support for sector addressing | 06:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | but the N800 has support for both byte and sector addressing, so it doesn't matter. | 06:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, yes, because 8GB isn't that much more expensive and it's twice the capacity. | 06:44 |
| K`zan | So the SDHC is for older devices and it fakes out older software - so to speak - so it can use more than it "should"? | 06:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Uh, no. | 06:44 |
| K`zan | Arghhh | 06:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | SDHC is the new standard | 06:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | It supports capacities over 4GB | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | SD does not | 06:45 |
| K`zan | OK, so forget SDHC for older devices. | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | SD does not because it addresses by byte, so it runs out of address space | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | SDHC addresses by sector (bigger) so it doesn't run out of address space nearly as fast. | 06:45 |
| K`zan | Some limit on that. IIRC my camera will only use 1G SD cards. | 06:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | But SDHC wont work in older devices without a firmware update to those devices. | 06:45 |
| * K`zan bangs head on wall :-) | 06:46 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, there may be other variables involved on the camera side | 06:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | But SD as a STANDARD only supports 4GB (well, 2GB, but they managed to hack up 4GB cards) | 06:46 |
| K`zan | In the case of the N800, "don't worry about it" :-) | 06:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right. | 06:46 |
| K`zan | :-) done! | 06:46 |
| K`zan | LOL | 06:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sorry, I have a tendency to bring technical issues into play when people don't really want/need to know about them. ;) | 06:47 |
| K`zan | No problem, appreciate the education :-). | 06:48 |
| K`zan | I think I'll just go with the 2G and 1G cards I have until I have some clue about what I actually need on the n800. | 06:48 |
| K`zan | I got the 2G for the camera (Cannon S2IS) and I have yet to get even vaguely close to using up (at highest res) the 2500+ pix that can store :). | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Drop a couple of movies on there and it'll be done fast | 06:49 |
| K`zan | In real every day use I could use the internal memory :). | 06:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, cache a state or two in maemo mapper and it'll be done | 06:49 |
| K`zan | Point made :-). | 06:49 |
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| K`zan | I am not really planning to use it for video, from what I gather it is rather choppy. | 06:50 |
| K`zan | Or was that just with utube stuff?!? | 06:50 |
| K`zan | Hummm. | 06:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's great for video | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | You just have to transcode ahead of time | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | and/or get yourself a copy of | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | mediaserv? | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Useless damn bot | 06:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10948 | 06:51 |
| K`zan | Ah, COOL, that is a 4G card in the camera! Snarf and in goes the 64M one :) | 06:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | MPEG4 video at no more than 400x240 24-30fps at 1200-1500Kbps with MP3 audio in the 128Kbps range | 06:52 |
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| K`zan | 150x 4g that should work :). | 06:53 |
| K`zan | and an 80x 1G | 06:54 |
| * K`zan roots through the SD cards :) | 06:54 | |
| elb | I'm hoping to be able to downcode videos from my myth | 06:54 |
| * K`zan prowling for SD cards... | 06:55 | |
| GeneralAntilles | People have mentioned it before, elb, so, yeah, you should be able to. | 06:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | K`zan, stick the 4GB in the internal slot and stick swap on there and cache your maps there. | 06:55 |
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| elb | I'm sure I can | 06:55 |
| elb | the only question is whether I decide it's worht the time & effort | 06:56 |
| elb | (depends on the quality of video I can get on and at what sizes) | 06:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It looks great. | 06:56 |
| elb | I'll be space-constrained, I'm sure | 06:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Do it on-the-fly | 06:57 |
| elb | ... that's not very useful | 06:58 |
| elb | if I'm close enough to home for that, I'll watch on the TV ;-) | 06:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then what's with space constraints? | 06:58 |
| elb | I'm thinking more along the lines of at 20k feet over the Atlantic | 06:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Of COURSE you're going to be a little constrained on the device | 06:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | just buy yourself a pair of 8GB cards and you'll be set for a flight | 06:59 |
| elb | right, my point is, my quality will be determined by space, not what the device is capable of | 06:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | (and an extra battery if they don't have a jack) | 06:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, my opinion is to go with the best quality and whatever fits . . . fits. ;) | 06:59 |
| elb | 'cause I can't afford two 8GB cards, either ;-) | 06:59 |
| elb | near-TV-quality can be had in about 2GB/hour at 480x480 or so | 07:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then toss a book or two into the mix to fill the rest of the time. | 07:00 |
| elb | 400x240 will be significantly smaller | 07:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | 90MB per 12 minutes for me | 07:00 |
| elb | heh last time I flew to Russia, I read two Aubrey/Maturin novels on the way there :-P | 07:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2GB/hour seems incredibly high | 07:00 |
| elb | right, that's near-tv-quality | 07:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 1080i runs about 6GB/hour for me | 07:01 |
| elb | MPEG-2, I should say | 07:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, right. | 07:01 |
| elb | MPEG-4 will be tighter | 07:01 |
| fysa | i cron transcode the newest 2 gigs of video and rsync | 07:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | My MPEG4 stuff from my EyeTV is about 1.3GB/hour at current settings | 07:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | 740xsummuch | 07:02 |
| fysa | so there is always a few hours of stuff | 07:02 |
| pupnik | i want a 60" flexible screen that i can set up flat, or wrap in a semi-circle around my head for 180 degree view while gaming | 07:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 07:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just use the phat pipe coming out of my parent's house for on-the-go on-demand media. ;) | 07:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody else with OS2008 play with mce.ini yet? | 07:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems to be some new settings | 07:04 |
| K`zan | Wow, Cheap: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211180 | 07:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Out of stock, though. ;) | 07:07 |
| K`zan | Small wonder :) | 07:07 |
| fysa | get the Transcend from buy.com | 07:07 |
| K`zan | Makes a difference here? Will check that out. | 07:08 |
| K`zan | :-) even better prices :-), thanks! | 07:09 |
| astro76 | K`zan, this transcend is good http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208293 | 07:09 |
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| tuxthepenguin | Eureka! I got it. my problem was due to binfmt_misc support being missing in the uml kernel I got from nagafix as a canned quick start. | 07:09 |
| fysa | plus there are a few coupons out there | 07:09 |
| l7 | is Transcend better than Kensignton for SD cards? | 07:09 |
| fysa | just make sure it's class 6.. | 07:10 |
| l7 | fysa: will class 4 be noticably slower? | 07:10 |
| K`zan | Thanks, was just wondering about that :), 150x class6 none noted... | 07:10 |
| tuxthepenguin | another canned kernel from there had it built-in (it was also newer - kernel 2.6.23 instead of 2.6.19rc5 | 07:10 |
| l7 | i'm wondering if it's worth the extra $10 | 07:10 |
| fysa | every bit helps with the n800 :) | 07:11 |
| l7 | ah :\ | 07:11 |
| K`zan | is 150x better than class 6? | 07:11 |
| l7 | the n800 is a little pokey? | 07:11 |
| l7 | i tried it out in store, but i'm not sure if the firmware was updated | 07:11 |
| l7 | K`zan: you can check out this page for tests: http://www.valuemedia.co.uk/sd_chart.htm | 07:12 |
| fysa | ... it's a handheld. without a hdd and with 128mb. faster card = faster swap | 07:12 |
| K`zan | Is the flash a disk in the N800 or RAM - yes, my ignorance at this point is legion, sigh... | 07:12 |
| l7 | hrm yeah | 07:12 |
| astro76 | these speed tests cover SDHC cards http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388.html | 07:13 |
| K`zan | Or both... | 07:13 |
| _Monkey | both are important | 07:13 |
| K`zan | LOl | 07:13 |
| astro76 | and if you compare kingston class 2 versus class 6, there's hardly a difference, so take the classes with a grain of salt http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388-2408-87.html | 07:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | There flash in the device for storage and there's RAM inside the device, too. | 07:14 |
| l7 | the n810 spec sheet says it has 128mb ddr ram and 256MB flash... | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | class2 is AT LEAST 2MB/sec | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | class6 is AT LEAST 6MB/sec | 07:14 |
| astro76 | indeed | 07:14 |
| l7 | i wonder how much of a speed edge the n810 will have... | 07:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | None. | 07:14 |
| l7 | http://europe.nokia.com/A4305063 | 07:15 |
| l7 | oh right, nvm | 07:15 |
| l7 | a good argument for buying the n800 | 07:16 |
| l7 | so does anyone know another website that has benchmarks for sd cards? | 07:18 |
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| l7 | i guess if one were a true gearhead, one could buy a sandisk extreme 3 card | 07:21 |
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| astro76 | l7, I can't see that it's worth it for these devices | 07:25 |
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| l7 | astro76: yeah, i tend to agree | 07:25 |
| l7 | i suppose one could benchmark the differences between transcend and sandisk extreme | 07:26 |
| l7 | if you were as obsessive as me :) | 07:26 |
| fysa | sd extreme is twice the price. | 07:26 |
| fysa | so it's out | 07:26 |
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| l7 | transcend 8gb seems to have somewhat better reviews on newegg than the a-data | 07:27 |
| astro76 | l7, I believe that 8gb transcend is by far the best deal right now | 07:27 |
| astro76 | I have 1 and will get another soon ;) | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | For all the doubters: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/new_os2007_he_for_the_nokia_770_with_mozilla_engine_and_memory_corruption_bugfix.html | 07:28 |
| l7 | http://www.adorama.com/KGSD68GB.html | 07:29 |
| pupnik_ | We should have a thread on ITT forums with a dd speed test read/write, device (770,800,810), kernel version and card type | 07:30 |
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| l7 | Kingston Technology 8 GB Class 6 comes out to $55 after rebate | 07:30 |
| fysa | eh | 07:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | MIR's a pain | 07:30 |
| l7 | yeah it is | 07:30 |
| astro76 | l7, IMO you always have to compare prices assuming you will not get the rebate | 07:31 |
| l7 | i'm curious about the kingston's speed vs the transcend | 07:31 |
| l7 | astro76: i'm strongly in favor of the transcend right now | 07:31 |
| astro76 | l7, here's that comparison | 07:31 |
| astro76 | http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388-2439-161.html | 07:31 |
| astro76 | l7, as you see it is close, and the transcend is actually better at writing small files | 07:31 |
| l7 | astro76: ah, excellent link | 07:32 |
| l7 | i just was noticing how slow my usb thumbdrive was at writing small files yesterday | 07:33 |
| l7 | kingston also has a crazy 266x card for $120 | 07:34 |
| l7 | AR | 07:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | This map download is taking FOREVER | 07:34 |
| l7 | transcend seems like the best bet so far though | 07:34 |
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| pupnik_ | sdhc mini-sd slow to appear in germany | 07:37 |
| db48x | GeneralAntilles: did you notice the file size? | 07:37 |
| lopz | bye | 07:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~733MB | 07:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | First one died at 50% after 3 hours | 07:37 |
| db48x | yea | 07:38 |
| db48x | it's died twice for me | 07:38 |
| db48x | I guess I'm giving up | 07:38 |
| * db48x has no gps anyway | 07:38 | |
| GeneralAntilles | maemo mapper is better, anyway. | 07:38 |
| l7 | interesting sd card forum here: http://iaudiophile.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-16901.html | 07:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 07:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Way too much work for some stupid memory card. ;) | 07:39 |
| l7 | GeneralAntilles: yeah, it's academic | 07:40 |
| * l7 is obsessively detail oriented when it comes to buying gear | 07:40 | |
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| K`zan | l7: isn't alone :-) | 07:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can understand that | 07:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | but . . . for memory cards? :\ | 07:40 |
| l7 | http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/ for unrelated flash benchmark porn | 07:40 |
| pupnik_ | relevant to my interests | 07:41 |
| l7 | GeneralAntilles: yeah, i guess it's not really _that_ big of a purchase | 07:41 |
| l7 | compared to say, buying a digital camera | 07:41 |
| l7 | or gps | 07:41 |
| l7 | you pays your money and takes your chances i guess | 07:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, GPS is an easy one to answer: MTK ;) | 07:42 |
| K`zan | Still, ya gotta live with what you get, so you might as well do it as well as you can... | 07:42 |
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| pupnik_ | the kingston 4GB minisdhc is one of the few available in germany for N810 - 20.5MB/s read and 5.7MB/s write sounds grrreat | 07:42 |
| * K`zan is NOT neurotic :) | 07:42 | |
| l7 | K`zan: yup, i know the feeling | 07:42 |
| l7 | there's so many choices in the market | 07:42 |
| l7 | it's good and bad | 07:42 |
| K`zan | Yep, way too damn many | 07:42 |
| astro76 | pupnik_, how about micro sdhc? seems like that is more popular, 8gb has just been announced | 07:43 |
| K`zan | True, but why do we need 5000 of the same thing with different names /skus? | 07:43 |
| l7 | GeneralAntilles: does MTK GPS chipset = iblue? | 07:43 |
| K`zan | One company makes them then 100 sell them with different packaging and prices :) | 07:43 |
| astro76 | l7, many use MTK | 07:44 |
| pupnik_ | astro76: maybe yes - if micro has higher volume they could be cheaper | 07:44 |
| l7 | i wonder if it will outperform the n810's gps | 07:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically, l7. | 07:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Holux, too | 07:44 |
| l7 | wow | 07:44 |
| l7 | er, which is better, Holux or MTK? | 07:44 |
| l7 | is there a kind of newbie FAQ for what accessories are best for the n800 somewhere? | 07:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Holux like i-blue | 07:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a GPS brand | 07:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | not the chipset | 07:45 |
| astro76 | l7, holux is a brand, some use sirf iii and some use mtk | 07:45 |
| l7 | or do you just kind of get it through osmosis here ? :) | 07:45 |
| pupnik_ | http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/speed-by-cards-sdc.html#cdet-ki44 varry nice chart | 07:45 |
| astro76 | l7, I have decided on either the m1200 or m1000b http://www.holux.com/JCore/en/products/products_list.jsp?pno=2 | 07:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd just get the i-blue 737 | 07:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | or 757 if you have a use for solar | 07:47 |
| l7 | hmm, the cool thing about getting a n800 + gps is that you can use the gps with your bluetooth phone too, in theory | 07:47 |
| astro76 | yeah that solar one is cool | 07:47 |
| astro76 | pupnik_, wow that sandisc 6gb microsdhc is a really good card | 07:47 |
| l7 | is it easy to say which is better: the holux or one of the iblues? | 07:48 |
| pupnik_ | yeah looking for it right now | 07:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's not a huge difference, l7. | 07:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | I _really_ like my i-blue, though. | 07:49 |
| astro76 | l7, yeah those are both very popular and both use same chipset | 07:49 |
| l7 | GeneralAntilles: what do you like and or dislike about it? | 07:49 |
| pupnik_ | as usual germany is lagged behind the rest of the planet - no sdhc cards in the major shops | 07:49 |
| l7 | astro76: i guess that means they'll have the best software support in the maemo community then | 07:49 |
| pupnik_ | hc micro that is | 07:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | The only thing I might possibly complain about is that the LEDs are a little bright when it's sitting on the dash cruising down the pitch-black interstate at night. | 07:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Otherwise, it's small, durable, fast, accurate, reliable and with incredibly long battery life. | 07:50 |
| l7 | you could put some electrical tape over the LEDs | 07:51 |
| astro76 | l7, any bluetooth gps should enjoy the same support, that said I tend to stick to reputable brands ;) | 07:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 07:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | "might possibly" | 07:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | that's if I were digging as deep as I could for a complaint. | 07:51 |
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| l7 | i guess the most important thing is that it has a good GPS connection | 07:52 |
| l7 | i'm basically a newbie to GPS, but i thought i should plan to get all my n800 gear around the same time to make sure i like the setup | 07:53 |
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| K`zan | Well, I have reached terminal confusion with *SD* cards, break time... | 07:54 |
| l7 | hrm, GPS + bluetooth camera looks fun too | 07:54 |
| l7 | K`zan: perhaps you should just get the Transcend :) | 07:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I was going to try and rig something up with a waterproof box, a bluetooth gps and digital camera for my canoe trips | 07:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Take photos in the water tied to GPS locations | 07:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, K`zan, get the 4GB or the 8GB class6 Transcend. | 07:55 |
| l7 | GeneralAntilles: so the iblue 757 is more or less perfect? :) | 07:56 |
| K`zan | GeneralAntilles: or the 150x one :). | 07:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Get the SDHC | 07:56 |
| l7 | K`zan: what is the 150x one? | 07:57 |
| l7 | it's not SDHC? | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically, though durability is slightly reduced with the 757 versus the 737 | 07:57 |
| K`zan | I'm going to limp along with the 5G worth of cards I have until next month and then either 4 or 8G. | 07:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | 150x is plain SD | 07:57 |
| K`zan | l7: Damnifiknow, the 4G one I had in the camera is 150x but how that compares to a "Class 6" I ain't got clue frickin one... | 07:58 |
| astro76 | there is actually an 150x SDHC 4GB http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388-2437-161.html | 07:58 |
| astro76 | most stores have the non SDHC one | 07:58 |
| astro76 | and neither are worth it for the n800 | 07:58 |
| l7 | if you're feeling crazy, you can get the sandisk iii 8gb class 6 for $100 AR i think | 07:58 |
| K`zan | By the time cash replentishes itself I might have a clue as to what I *actually* need :). | 07:58 |
| l7 | http://www.adorama.com/IDSCF8GE3.html#SanDisk-8-GB-Extreme-III-Compact-Flash-Memory-Card. | 07:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Erm, l7 | 07:59 |
| astro76 | unless you have a high end digital camera, it's overkill | 07:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's not SD. :\ | 07:59 |
| K`zan | Cannon S2IS | 07:59 |
| astro76 | heh | 07:59 |
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| l7 | astro76: hrm the 150x has an improved write speed... | 08:00 |
| l7 | might speed up the n800 slightly... in theory | 08:00 |
| l7 | might also be an unmeasurable different | 08:01 |
| l7 | difference | 08:01 |
| l7 | GeneralAntilles: oops :\ | 08:01 |
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| * l7 compares weight between iblue 757 and 737 | 08:02 | |
| l7 | 757 would be better for hiking... if there's sun | 08:02 |
| l7 | otherwise the solar might be extra weight | 08:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Do I feel like flashing my 770s tonight? | 08:02 |
| l7 | is flashing particularly time consuming? | 08:03 |
| l7 | people seem to regard it with a certain dread | 08:03 |
| K`zan | No, just a few buttons ;-) | 08:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Flashing, no. | 08:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | But reinstalling all those damn apps and reconfiguring everything, yes. | 08:03 |
| * l7 wonders if it's possible for the iblue to link to the n800 and a phone simultaenously... | 08:03 | |
| l7 | ah reconfiguring | 08:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's the point of linking to a phone? | 08:04 |
| l7 | i don't suppose it would be easy to simply back up your configurations as well | 08:04 |
| l7 | if you ever wanted to reflash the entire thing with configuration intact | 08:04 |
| l7 | GeneralAntilles: er i meant camera, not phone | 08:05 |
| pupnik_ | these microsd do not seem to come with adapter to minisd - usually just SD-adapter | 08:05 |
| l7 | and perhaps mount the camera on a tripod and get the phone to transmit photos for review to the n800 after each shot... | 08:06 |
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| l7 | http://sewelldirect.com/Solar-Energy-Bluetooth-GPS-Data-Logger.asp | 08:10 |
| l7 | http://sewelldirect.com/iBlue-737-High-Sensitivity-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver.asp | 08:10 |
| l7 | both the 757 and 737 are 46.5 x 72.2 x 20 mm | 08:11 |
| l7 | the 757 is 40 grams heavier... | 08:11 |
| l7 | http://www.mtekk.com.au/Articles/tabid/54/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/791/iBlue-757-Pro-32-GPS-and-Data-Logger.aspx | 08:13 |
| l7 | In every way the unit has significantly better performance than the PS-737, and that’s saying something because the PS-737 was and still is an excellent unit. | 08:13 |
| K`zan | What voltage does the charger for the N800 put out? | 08:14 |
| K`zan | Thinking of making up a pack to recharge or run off of like I have for the Zire (4 AA NIMHs). | 08:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | 3.7, I think | 08:15 |
| * GeneralAntilles is too lazy to check under the desk | 08:15 | |
| db48x | K`zan: look on the charger body, it'll say | 08:15 |
| K`zan | Thanks, that should be easy :). | 08:15 |
| K`zan | db48x: I'll have that in two business days :). | 08:16 |
| db48x | heh | 08:16 |
| K`zan | FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) | 08:16 |
| K`zan | IG!!!!!!!!! | 08:16 |
| l7 | http://www.buygpsnow.com/i-blue-edition-2-i-blue-737-iblue-i-blue-ps-737-32-channel-bluetooth-gps-gps-receiver-waas-auto-on-off-679.aspx | 08:16 |
| l7 | 737 is $50... wow | 08:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | DC 5.0v 890mA | 08:17 |
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| K`zan | Good price on that, perhaps sell my GPSMAP76CS and get that. | 08:17 |
| l7 | astro76: which holux do you have btw? | 08:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's one down. | 08:19 |
| K`zan | 890 mA, wow. Sluuuuuuuuuuuurp. | 08:19 |
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| l7 | hrm, the iblue's auto-off feature seems to put a point in it's favor | 08:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just leave it on and plugged in in the center console of my Camry. | 08:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a jack in there | 08:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Take it out and set it on the dash when I use it. | 08:25 |
| l7 | hrm, i'll probably be travelling with it in my backpack more than in a car | 08:26 |
| l7 | so i guess i can skip the solar | 08:26 |
| l7 | http://tabletblog.com/2007/09/thoughtfix-is-biggest-nerd-ever.html | 08:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 08:28 |
| l7 | i guess i *could* carry the solar gps around in my hand or strapped to my backpack when hiking | 08:29 |
| l7 | but that seems a bit much | 08:29 |
| K`zan | Hat mount! | 08:29 |
| db48x | haha | 08:29 |
| K`zan | Just a big beany on top of the hat :-) | 08:29 |
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| l7 | K`zan: lol | 08:30 |
| K`zan | Get one of those hats with the fans and drink holders and no one will ever notice :). | 08:30 |
| db48x | actually, I'd been thinking that a hat mounted 360° would be pretty cool | 08:30 |
| db48x | actually, I'd been thinking that a hat mounted 360° camera would be pretty cool | 08:30 |
| astro76 | l7, neither though my friend just picked up a m1200... either that one or the m1000b | 08:31 |
| l7 | K`zan: you could get this holster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz8EtJzeDQ0 | 08:31 |
| K`zan | Small rotor would be nice too :) LOL | 08:31 |
| l7 | :) | 08:31 |
| l7 | haha, a rotor | 08:31 |
| l7 | solar powered no doubt | 08:31 |
| db48x | yea, that'd be cool | 08:31 |
| db48x | solar powered beanie | 08:31 |
| l7 | astro76: any raves or gripes baout the m1200 / m1000b? | 08:31 |
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| l7 | i saw a forum post about the lack of an auto-power off | 08:32 |
| l7 | other than than 9/10 | 08:32 |
| astro76 | no he loves the m1200 | 08:32 |
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| astro76 | doesn't mind the switch | 08:32 |
| drcoffee | this is probably the question of the day, but will ask again: is IT OS 2008 available to download for the n800? | 08:33 |
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| pupnik_ | instructions to get os2008 working on n800 http://pastebin.com/m16dd5937 | 08:33 |
| drcoffee | thanks!! Anything I should watchout for? | 08:34 |
| l7 | okay i'm in information overload mode too | 08:35 |
| l7 | i should go digest this and look at digicam magazines | 08:35 |
| pupnik_ | i don't know - just copied the link | 08:36 |
| drcoffee | ok, I'll be back once I get this done. | 08:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nope, not particularly, drcoffee | 08:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | The softpoweroff configuration is a little more complicated. | 08:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | You're going to have to wait for most applications to have ports released. | 08:38 |
| l7 | now all i have to decide is between the 737 models and 747... | 08:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, I'd go 737 | 08:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | The caching on the 747 isn't really that useful. | 08:39 |
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| L0cutus | re | 08:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Urgh . . . MicroB on OS2008 is SO MUCH BETTER. :D | 08:43 |
| db48x | better in what way? | 08:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Faster, stronger, more stable | 08:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | d-pad scrolling works | 08:46 |
| pupnik_ | is it usable on a gross script-heavy site like digg.com? | 08:47 |
| pupnik_ | also does it run youtubes fast like in the thoughtfix videos? | 08:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, MicroB on OS2007 was fine already, but yes and yes. | 08:47 |
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| pupnik_ | ty | 08:48 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Somebody want to hax up 12pt Plankton for OS2008. :D | 08:55 |
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| K`zan | Thanks much for everything folks! | 08:57 |
| K`zan | Time to go fall over, see ya tomorrow. | 08:57 |
| pupnik_ | cu | 09:01 |
| fysa | hmm. crap. | 09:02 |
| fysa | how can I get evince to work with cbr properly? | 09:02 |
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| l7 | re | 09:06 |
| l7 | GeneralAntilles: caching = recording your trips? | 09:06 |
| l7 | i guess you could set the n800 to do that if you had it with you... | 09:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | The 747 will record GPS points independent of a host device. | 09:07 |
| l7 | it does look nifty for travelling... if one left the n800 behind | 09:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd just record with the N800 | 09:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Especially since you want to NAVIGATE with it | 09:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | not just look back at where you went. | 09:08 |
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| l7 | hrm yeah | 09:10 |
| l7 | the only reason i might leave the n800 behind is bulk | 09:10 |
| db48x | also "Please note that recorded data can only be downloaded through USB interface only." | 09:11 |
| l7 | looks like it's a $20 premium for the 747 over the 737 | 09:11 |
| l7 | yeah, so the n800 would be the hotel or something... | 09:11 |
| l7 | not all that practical | 09:11 |
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| astro76 | l7, you clearly don't have an n800 yet... you will never want to leave it behind ;) | 09:13 |
| fysa | it's a nice size. | 09:13 |
| l7 | astro76: surgicial implantation is always an option :) | 09:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody successfully download any of the US maps? | 09:14 |
| l7 | i'm just starting to think: n800 + gps + keyboard + camera + phone... | 09:15 |
| l7 | it's a lot of gadgets | 09:15 |
| db48x | astro76: unless you've been spoiled by scifi devices that haven't been built yet :) | 09:15 |
| l7 | i need like 1 supergadget... | 09:15 |
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| db48x | has anyone here read "Fast Times at Fairmont High"? | 09:16 |
| l7 | or 7 extra pockets.. | 09:17 |
| astro76 | l7, that's why I'm leaning towards holux m1200, it's as big as a bic lighter | 09:17 |
| l7 | heard of it, haven't seen it | 09:17 |
| astro76 | cell phone on belt clip... I'm set ;) | 09:17 |
| l7 | astro76: where does the n800 go? :) | 09:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pocket! | 09:18 |
| astro76 | l7, it will actually fit in my jeans pocket fairly comfortably | 09:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | left pocket is my pen, Leatherman and keys, right pocket is cellphone, N800, (GPS) | 09:19 |
| l7 | i guess one could try to get used to cargo pants... | 09:19 |
| l7 | are cargo pants still "in"? | 09:19 |
| vegai | they never were. | 09:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pft . . . cargo | 09:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | keyboard you don't need to carry everywhere | 09:20 |
| l7 | true | 09:20 |
| l7 | ditto with the camera | 09:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Camera should have a case, anyway | 09:20 |
| l7 | though it would be nice to have a little casio exlim | 09:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just get yourself a fanny-pack. :P | 09:20 |
| astro76 | heh, they really were never in | 09:21 |
| l7 | or geek holster :) | 09:21 |
| db48x | it doesn't matter what else you wear if you have a solar powered propeller beanie | 09:21 |
| l7 | man purse | 09:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 09:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | That could work. | 09:22 |
| l7 | http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/bags/918a/ | 09:22 |
| l7 | this is kinda cool | 09:22 |
| l7 | as long as if you don't have to remove your jacket | 09:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 09:22 |
| astro76 | hehe | 09:22 |
| l7 | once you do, people will be like: "Nice man purse." | 09:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just wear something with aluminum. | 09:23 |
| astro76 | people will think you're packing and you pull out an n800 | 09:23 |
| l7 | astro76: great, that mean cops will shoot at me | 09:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 09:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | You should have a permit, ANYWAY. | 09:23 |
| l7 | oi | 09:24 |
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| l7 | http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/additional/large/shoulderholster_back.jpg | 09:24 |
| astro76 | that's so bad :p | 09:24 |
| l7 | seriously, halloween is the only day to really wear this thing | 09:24 |
| db48x | heh | 09:24 |
| l7 | unless you work for a government agency | 09:24 |
| db48x | unless you keep a gun in it | 09:25 |
| l7 | are guns compatibly with n800s? | 09:25 |
| db48x | the gun would counterbalance the man-purse look | 09:25 |
| l7 | i thought it was all about linux and openness, peace love, etc. | 09:25 |
| l7 | haha | 09:25 |
| astro76 | and you could shoot anyone who made fun of you | 09:26 |
| l7 | well people would think twice about saying it to your face | 09:26 |
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| l7 | i was contemplating buying a vest today | 09:26 |
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| db48x | http://eyetap.org/research/wearables/wearcomp/wearables.html | 09:28 |
| db48x | there's a good picture | 09:28 |
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| l7 | this page has moved? | 09:29 |
| l7 | i keep hearing that wearable computers are going to be the next big thing | 09:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe = NITs | 09:30 |
| l7 | as soon as somone makes the iphone of wearable computers i guess | 09:30 |
| l7 | NITs? | 09:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | *Insert a period or something in there. | 09:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia Internet Tablets | 09:30 |
| l7 | oh ok | 09:30 |
| l7 | well i guess i could velcro an n800 to my clothing | 09:30 |
| l7 | damn, those star trek badges were pretty cool i guess | 09:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 09:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like how they got bigger. | 09:32 |
| l7 | they got bigger? | 09:32 |
| l7 | i must have missed something | 09:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | From the original fabric patches to actual device things | 09:34 |
| l7 | oh yeah | 09:34 |
| l7 | i never watched the original much | 09:35 |
| * l7 wants a working fabric n800 | 09:36 | |
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| l7 | alright, time for bed | 09:37 |
| l7 | 'nite all | 09:37 |
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| pupnik_ | Does OS2008 have built-in support for MMC 4.x wide-bus support and 48/52 mhz bus speeds? | 09:50 |
| pupnik_ | 48mhz support: "Nokia have done tests where it’s proved unreliable and TI won’t vouch for it - so I don’t blame them for disabling it." - Philip Langdale | 09:51 |
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| czr | mornink | 09:56 |
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| unique311 | anyone running 2008 on the n800? | 10:03 |
| czr | unique311, why do you ask? | 10:05 |
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| unique311 | i saw the post on ITT | 10:06 |
| unique311 | and was just curious | 10:06 |
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| czr | afaik the 2008 release is not yet available for n800. which post are you talking about? | 10:09 |
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| unique311 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=94458#post94458 | 10:09 |
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| czr | ah. | 10:09 |
| czr | pupnik did the update as well | 10:09 |
| czr | http://pastebin.com/m16dd5937 | 10:09 |
| czr | using the n810 firmware | 10:09 |
| czr | uh. posting a product id isn't good :-) | 10:10 |
| sxpert | haha | 10:10 |
| unique311 | product id. | 10:10 |
| unique311 | mac id, same thing? | 10:10 |
| sxpert | too late | 10:10 |
| sxpert | it appears so | 10:10 |
| czr | yes. | 10:10 |
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| sxpert | czr, won't get out of the internet | 10:10 |
| czr | sxpert, does not compute :-) | 10:11 |
| sxpert | that product ID won't escape from the internet | 10:11 |
| unique311 | but can't nokia put a block on that mac id | 10:11 |
| czr | ah. let's hope so. | 10:11 |
| unique311 | but then what happens to the individual with that device...he's screwed out of any future dls | 10:13 |
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| gla55_ | well he can just get someone elses mac id.. :) | 10:13 |
| unique311 | so pupnik, is it running good? | 10:14 |
| pupnik_ | what? | 10:15 |
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| unique311 | 2008 on the 770 | 10:15 |
| doc|home | hey pupnik :) | 10:15 |
| pupnik | haven't tried it | 10:15 |
| czr | pupnik, oh. who did? | 10:15 |
| czr | just saw your link to the pastebin | 10:15 |
| unique311 | tempted...but friday might be the release. | 10:16 |
| unique311 | so i don't see why. | 10:16 |
| unique311 | i should brick my n800 before then. | 10:16 |
| pupnik | i forgot doc|home do you have the N800? | 10:16 |
| doc|home | pupnik: not yet, got one today | 10:18 |
| doc|home | well, won the ebay auction, waiting for it | 10:18 |
| pupnik | congrats! | 10:18 |
| doc|home | thanks :) | 10:19 |
| astro76 | supposedly the mac was from a nokia review device | 10:20 |
| astro76 | I can wait for official release... glad to here the 400 MHz cpu is true though | 10:20 |
| astro76 | * I mean a prerelease n810 sent from nokia to a reviewer | 10:21 |
| unique311 | so the upgrade boost the cpu | 10:22 |
| czr | I guess it's a bug from nokia to allow the prerel macs to be used to download the firmwares then. or maybe not. who knows. | 10:23 |
| unique311 | doesn't mean the release for the n800 will do the same | 10:23 |
| astro76 | it's the same cpu as the n810... I read something about improved power management in the kernel enabling the bump | 10:23 |
| astro76 | and yes it's been confirmed in the n800 | 10:23 |
| unique311 | cool | 10:23 |
| pupnik | you'll still burn through battery faster if you're running games or movies, afaik | 10:24 |
| astro76 | I'd imagine | 10:24 |
| czr | hmm. where would one see the max speed anyway? | 10:25 |
| czr | I mean under /proc or somewhere | 10:25 |
| unique311 | video chat improved... | 10:25 |
| vegai | /proc/acpi/processor/... perhaps | 10:25 |
| astro76 | no more fast-forward icon for the running program list :D | 10:26 |
| czr | vegai, no /proc/acpi/ :-) | 10:26 |
| vegai | oh, ok. | 10:26 |
| pupnik | so the sdhc card issue seems to be fixed maybe possibly... most complaints came from transcend cards? | 10:26 |
| vegai | I don't have my device yet... | 10:26 |
| astro76 | pupnik, what problem is that? no problems here with transcend 8gb sdhc.... AFAIK there is a 4gb model that many camera users have had problems with | 10:27 |
| pupnik | there's all kinds of worrying chatter on the forum, talk of fake brandname cards, low quality cards from china, a bug 1204 and a fix in the recent firmware | 10:28 |
| _Monkey | Bug 1204 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1204 | 10:28 |
| pupnik | hah | 10:28 |
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| pupnik | well.. considering number of users overall - i've just seen a handful of ppl with problems | 10:29 |
| pupnik | always keep the perspective | 10:29 |
| Khertan | Hu | 10:29 |
| astro76 | pupnik, oh.. yeah you gotta stick to good brands from sources which don't sell counterfeits | 10:29 |
| Khertan | Hi | 10:29 |
| pupnik | guten morning Khertan | 10:29 |
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| Khertan | I ve seen that some install 20087on n800 and some python dependencies are missing | 10:31 |
| Khertan | Guten tag pupnik | 10:31 |
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| unique311 | wow, that was thoughtfix mac addy....shitty | 10:51 |
| doc|home | not that big a deal really | 10:52 |
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| xs1cht_104872 | http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=6219097 | 10:52 |
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| Khertan | Engadget too | 10:52 |
| unique311 | lol | 10:53 |
| unique311 | spam | 10:53 |
| doc|home | stupid spammers | 10:53 |
| unique311 | hit and run | 10:53 |
| unique311 | lol | 10:53 |
| doc|home | so, someone clarify for me please, the n800 doesn't have gps, right? | 10:54 |
| unique311 | no | 10:54 |
| unique311 | you can buy a gps dongle. | 10:54 |
| pupnik | you can pair with a bluetooth gps though, and get high quality reception | 10:54 |
| pupnik | bluetooth or usb? | 10:54 |
| unique311 | bluetooth | 10:55 |
| doc|home | sure, but they say "integrated gps", that's not integrated | 10:55 |
| * doc|home looks for the page | 10:55 | |
| unique311 | sue them for fall advertising then. | 10:55 |
| gla55_ | who says? | 10:55 |
| doc|home | the nokia website, while showing a black object that looks like a dongle | 10:55 |
| unique311 | link | 10:56 |
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| doc|home | my first thought being "if that has to connect to the n800, it's not integrated" | 10:56 |
| gladiator09_1047 | http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=1579358 | 10:56 |
| doc|home | looking for it now | 10:56 |
| doc|home | that' | 10:56 |
| doc|home | s the same fucktard | 10:56 |
| pupnik | spammer eh | 10:56 |
| unique311 | his here to stay | 10:57 |
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| unique311 | gladiator09_1047, whats with the link? | 10:57 |
| unique311 | too late | 10:57 |
| gla55_ | some ref shit game prolly | 10:57 |
| doc|home | yeah | 10:57 |
| gla55_ | shittiest shit on the internet | 10:57 |
| gla55_ | a moron detector as well though, anyone participating in them is a moron | 10:58 |
| unique311 | 2 hits... | 10:59 |
| unique311 | third times a charm | 10:59 |
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| doc|home | and of course, now I can't find the link :/ | 11:01 |
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| doc|home | http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-unboxed/ | 11:03 |
| doc|home | if you ctrl-f "integrated gps" I'm not the only person who has seen it | 11:03 |
| doc|home | anyway, minor detail | 11:03 |
| tigert | woot :) | 11:04 |
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| unique311 | maybe it was a typo | 11:07 |
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| tigert | I guess it depends a lot on what the original text said? | 11:07 |
| unique311 | http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2007/01/08/nokia-n800-does-navigation-too/ | 11:08 |
| tigert | I know the N800 software update added an integrated gps framework | 11:08 |
| tigert | which integrates an api in software for apps to use I think | 11:08 |
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| unique311 | keyword = new | 11:09 |
| unique311 | which is the n810 | 11:09 |
| tigert | yeah | 11:09 |
| tigert | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Shuttle_mounting_point.JPG | 11:10 |
| tigert | :) | 11:10 |
| tigert | awesome | 11:10 |
| doc|home | nope, definitely said "integrated gps" | 11:11 |
| sxpert | tigert, mwahahahaha | 11:11 |
| doc|home | anyway | 11:11 |
| doc|home | zZzZz | 11:12 |
| X-Fade_ | tigert: Nice ;) | 11:12 |
| doc|home | night | 11:12 |
| sxpert | tigert, I love the "note" | 11:12 |
| tigert | yeah | 11:12 |
| tigert | its pretty awesome :) | 11:12 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:12 |
| unique311 | hello | 11:15 |
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| AD-N770 | bon dia / good morning | 11:22 |
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| Kaco | hello guys | 11:29 |
| Kaco | I'm planning to port my Photoshop to Maemo but it seems I missed discounts for developers on N810 | 11:29 |
| Kaco | is there any other way to get this nokia for development? | 11:30 |
| Kaco | well it's not for sale in my country as well :( | 11:30 |
| cosmo | we don't believe you've written Photoshop :) | 11:30 |
| Kaco | cosmo: http://www.kanzelsberger.com | 11:31 |
| cosmo | quite nice this leaked os2008.. friend just demoed to me | 11:31 |
| Kaco | cosmo: this is linux screenshot: http://www.kanzelsberger.com/img/linux.png | 11:32 |
| Kaco | application is highly portable and I can easily port it to Maemo | 11:32 |
| cosmo | that's Pixel, not Photoshop | 11:32 |
| Kaco | hehe yeah | 11:32 |
| Kaco | but if I said Pixel, nobody knows what it is | 11:32 |
| Kaco | :-D | 11:32 |
| pupnik | i've heard of it | 11:32 |
| Kaco | pupnik: ok ;-) | 11:32 |
| pupnik | btw nice looking app | 11:32 |
| cosmo | http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/index.html this is ps ;) | 11:32 |
| Kaco | :) | 11:33 |
| Kaco | so is there anybody I should officialy contact? | 11:33 |
| Kaco | or I just missed that | 11:33 |
| cosmo | Pixel looks good.. i hope you can get it ported | 11:33 |
| Kaco | cosmo: i checked prerequisities, it's doable in one weekend | 11:34 |
| pupnik | you missed it, but n800s are fairly cheap now and just as fast | 11:34 |
| Kaco | cosmo: polishing for 800x480 will take few more days | 11:34 |
| czr | cosmo, is he runnin 2008 on n800? | 11:34 |
| cosmo | czr: yep | 11:34 |
| czr | ah. people have been wondering about it here. | 11:34 |
| Kaco | pupnik: well I guess I'll buy N810 on web somehow when it is out | 11:34 |
| czr | cosmo, you're not running it yet? :-) | 11:34 |
| cosmo | Kaco: how about lack of right mouse button? | 11:34 |
| pupnik | you like the keyboard? | 11:34 |
| Kaco | pupnik: yeah and GPS :) | 11:34 |
| Kaco | when is it planned to go on sale? december? | 11:35 |
| cosmo | czr: not yet.. i've got other stuff to do with my n800 and at home i've got only 770 | 11:35 |
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| tux2 | hello | 11:35 |
| pupnik | I dunno, mid november supposedly | 11:35 |
| czr | cosmo, right. good info though. thanks | 11:36 |
| tux2 | maemo planet | 11:36 |
| cosmo | he said the flash image is available at nokia d/l site and there's a mac code of n810 somewhere available. check blogs | 11:36 |
| Kaco | pupnik: mid november is now? | 11:36 |
| tux2 | I have a problem | 11:36 |
| czr | cosmo, the instructions did flow through here already :-) | 11:36 |
| tux2 | with the edit of wiki | 11:36 |
| czr | cosmo, check the irclog ;-) | 11:36 |
| czr | macs and all. | 11:36 |
| cosmo | ok, thanks | 11:36 |
| tux2 | in particular with the page wikireorg | 11:36 |
| Kaco | ok and last question | 11:36 |
| Kaco | is N800 and N810 compatible? | 11:37 |
| pupnik | yes, same OS | 11:37 |
| Kaco | i mean when I produce app for N800 will it work on N810 and vice versa? | 11:37 |
| czr | Kaco, yes. if they both are running the same version of OS | 11:37 |
| Kaco | ok that's great | 11:37 |
| pupnik | some N800s will still be running older OS version | 11:37 |
| tux2 | because don't link to the original page | 11:37 |
| czr | the 2008 version hasn't been (yet/officially) been released for N800 | 11:37 |
| Kaco | so N800 can be updated to OS2008? | 11:37 |
| czr | Kaco, yes | 11:37 |
| pupnik | yes | 11:37 |
| Kaco | ah ok | 11:37 |
| Kaco | but it is planned i guess | 11:37 |
| czr | it works nicely | 11:37 |
| czr | for 2008, you'll want to use the 4.0 sdk though. | 11:38 |
| Kaco | hmm but that keyboard really rocks on N810 | 11:38 |
| Veggen | Kaco: yes, soonish. There's an unofficial hack now. | 11:38 |
| Kaco | ok | 11:38 |
| Kaco | there's N800 on ebay for $260 ... and N810 will be something about $490 | 11:38 |
| tux2 | Can someone help | 11:38 |
| Kaco | i will think about it :) | 11:38 |
| tux2 | me to the wiki problem | 11:38 |
| pupnik | i promise not to work on mtpaint (cough) | 11:38 |
| czr | Kaco, it boils down to the keyboard and gps really. | 11:38 |
| Kaco | well and that is a good reason for me to wait for N810 | 11:39 |
| czr | Kaco, maybe size too, but the size diff is pretty marginal | 11:39 |
| Kaco | but it's expensive damn it | 11:39 |
| Kaco | it also looks better ;-) | 11:39 |
| pupnik | sony ux is expensive | 11:39 |
| czr | Kaco, if you already have a working bt GPS, I'd go for the N800 | 11:40 |
| czr | otoh, it's up to you of course :-) | 11:40 |
| pupnik | how many commercial apps are there for the tablets? | 11:40 |
| Kaco | well GPS is not that important for me, more like a bonus | 11:40 |
| Kaco | but keyboard :) | 11:40 |
| czr | I still write faster with the vkb on n800 than the keyboard on n810 :-) | 11:41 |
| Kaco | but I guess there are some USB keyboards ? | 11:41 |
| czr | the keyboard needs some time to get used to | 11:41 |
| pupnik | Kaco - there appears to also be pressure sensitivity for the stylus that you can use | 11:41 |
| Kaco | czr: do you have N810? | 11:41 |
| czr | Kaco, yes. | 11:41 |
| Kaco | pupnik: oh with N810?? that's cool | 11:41 |
| Kaco | czr: but it is not yet on sale... so you've got dev version? | 11:41 |
| czr | I built one myself! | 11:41 |
| * czr hides and runs | 11:41 | |
| astro76 | Kaco, no reason for ebay, it's ~230 in regular stores | 11:41 |
| Kaco | czr: haha, how? | 11:41 |
| czr | Kaco, joking. dev version. | 11:42 |
| Kaco | czr: ok do you think it is still possible to get dev version from nokia? | 11:42 |
| Kaco | czr: I tried to contact them, but they left me with no response | 11:42 |
| czr | ah, if you mean the developer program, then probably not | 11:42 |
| astro76 | Kaco, the display on the n810 is also a big consideration | 11:42 |
| Kaco | astro76: yeah I read somewhere it has better contrast | 11:42 |
| Kaco | czr: hm too bad | 11:42 |
| czr | Kaco, I didn't participate in the dev program. those will be sold when the device hits the markets | 11:43 |
| astro76 | Kaco, it's transflective, readable in full sunlight | 11:43 |
| Kaco | czr: so how did you get it? :) | 11:43 |
| Kaco | oh | 11:43 |
| Kaco | http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet_W0QQitemZ250185455384QQihZ015QQcategoryZ32233QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem | 11:43 |
| Kaco | there's one N810 on ebay | 11:43 |
| czr | Kaco, it's a secret. | 11:43 |
| Kaco | ahha :-D | 11:44 |
| czr | timeless, hmm. weird. seems that keeping a youtube page open in microb will keep the device from going into powersave mode. | 11:44 |
| czr | timeless, although not really sure whether this is a microb issue, but people are likely to run into it with youtube anyway | 11:44 |
| czr | or maybe something else is happening.. mhmhm. | 11:45 |
| czr | cause now the backlight was shut off.. | 11:45 |
| gla55_ | well you wouldn't want to go to powersave when viewing a vid, no? | 11:45 |
| gla55_ | maybe something in the flash? | 11:45 |
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| czr | gla55_, the vid is not running anymore | 11:45 |
| czr | could be. I'll leave it on for a while, maybe it will repeat somehow. maybe a stupid user error too. | 11:46 |
| c0ffee | is the developer program already over? | 11:48 |
| astro76 | the 500 people have been notified already | 11:49 |
| c0ffee | so i didn't get one this time :-/ | 11:49 |
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| unique311 | I took the plunge. | 11:54 |
| unique311 | youtube plays well on the danm thing now. | 11:55 |
| L0cutus | unique311: really ? :) | 11:55 |
| L0cutus | like a film or again low fps ? | 11:56 |
| pupnik | that's a big plus for casual users | 11:56 |
| unique311 | its not choppy | 11:56 |
| unique311 | it plays smooth as soon as you click on the link | 11:56 |
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| pupnik | my PC doesn't even do that :) | 11:57 |
| unique311 | plus for os2008 looking really good | 11:57 |
| unique311 | see how gizmo acts | 11:59 |
| unique311 | and then test skype | 11:59 |
| L0cutus | wow | 11:59 |
| L0cutus | great | 11:59 |
| unique311 | unable to install skype. | 12:00 |
| L0cutus | hope os2008 for n800 coem out soon | 12:00 |
| unique311 | not avail yet | 12:00 |
| L0cutus | come* | 12:00 |
| L0cutus | unique311: i think i'll install in 'dual boot' :) | 12:00 |
| L0cutus | os2007 on internal flash and os2008 on mmc | 12:00 |
| L0cutus | :) | 12:00 |
| unique311 | don't see why not | 12:01 |
| unique311 | well i wouldn't | 12:01 |
| L0cutus | at least until a goon number of apps comes on os2008 | 12:01 |
| L0cutus | good* | 12:01 |
| inz | czr, maybe it is a feature in the flash plugin to disable screen blanking during vid? | 12:01 |
| unique311 | i took the change because i am going to get a n810 | 12:01 |
| Kaco | anyway guys is there any GSM module for N800/810? | 12:01 |
| X-Fade_ | L0cutus: How will you solve the 2 different kernels problem? ;) | 12:01 |
| Kaco | it would be great if there was possibility to use GSM with this tablet | 12:01 |
| czr | inz, the screen has been off now for a while. maybe not. one doesn't know :-) | 12:02 |
| Kaco | i could throw away my phone | 12:02 |
| kulve | Kaco: no | 12:02 |
| L0cutus | X-Fade_: dunno :D | 12:02 |
| kulve | (afaik) | 12:02 |
| Kaco | yeah :( | 12:02 |
| Kaco | oh maybe can I use my phone and do calls over bluetooth? | 12:02 |
| kulve | Kaco: but voip is coming strongly :) | 12:02 |
| pupnik | on n770 i am getting 263kB/s write speed to 2GB kingston mmc | 12:02 |
| Kaco | that would be usable too | 12:02 |
| X-Fade_ | L0cutus: The idea is nice, but you'd have to change the kernel each time you want to boot the other os.. | 12:02 |
| pupnik | sure about that? | 12:03 |
| X-Fade_ | pupnik: And initfs too.. | 12:04 |
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| X-Fade_ | I'm pretty sure that dsme is NOT going to be amused when running on a different kernel ;) | 12:05 |
| pupnik | too bad | 12:09 |
| pupnik | there is not enough space for a multi-kernel bootloader? | 12:09 |
| X-Fade_ | As far as I know, the kernel 'partition' is pretty small. | 12:10 |
| pupnik | so now to develop for all versions maemo one needs 4 devices? | 12:11 |
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| pupnik | or 3 | 12:11 |
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| X-Fade_ | pupnik: Scratchbox not enough? :) | 12:12 |
| pupnik | for some apps, no | 12:13 |
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| L0cutus | what's the best pdf viewer for n800 ? | 12:13 |
| pupnik | but i think many people will upgrade to 2008 | 12:13 |
| kulve | L0cutus: evince? | 12:13 |
| X-Fade_ | pupnik: My guess is that after a month orso almost all people run 2008 ;) | 12:13 |
| L0cutus | not the internal one ? | 12:14 |
| kulve | L0cutus: hard to say, I have used only evince ;) | 12:14 |
| L0cutus | ha ok :) | 12:14 |
| pupnik | i am happiest just hating pdfs | 12:15 |
| kulve | and not much, I have to admit.. | 12:15 |
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| L0cutus | pupnik: what's wrong with pdf ? | 12:16 |
| L0cutus | closed format ? | 12:16 |
| pupnik | too fat and slow | 12:16 |
| czr | agreed. | 12:17 |
| pupnik | and yeah binary now. early .ps was text-editable | 12:17 |
| czr | pupnik, why would you want to edit ps? :-) | 12:17 |
| L0cutus | alternatives ? | 12:17 |
| TPC | pdf as a format is not too fat and slow | 12:17 |
| TPC | the problem is that people use it the wrong way | 12:17 |
| TPC | putting text as images for example, that makes pdfs very slow | 12:18 |
| czr | the pdf base format is quite simple though. much easier to use than ps ever was. ps was too free-form for structural processing. | 12:18 |
| pupnik | give another example | 12:18 |
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| TPC | well, using it for the wrong purposes | 12:19 |
| TPC | documents intended for online viewing should be html | 12:19 |
| TPC | thats not what pdf was designed for | 12:19 |
| TPC | it was designed for having a single format that would look the same both on the computer and when printed | 12:20 |
| pupnik | pdf wasn't designed, it is a cancer | 12:20 |
| TPC | so its good for things like newspapers, books, some documents | 12:20 |
| L0cutus | i'm trying to open a 30mb pdf book ... | 12:21 |
| pupnik | L0cutus: well you can download pdf2html | 12:21 |
| pupnik | i disagree that it's good. i think it's bad. | 12:21 |
| L0cutus | thanks, i'll try | 12:21 |
| czr | pupnik, being cancer doesn't mean it wasn't designed. the current specs are quite bloated, javascript, flash and whatnot. but it doesn't mean that pdf wasn't designed | 12:21 |
| TPC | L0cutus, if its 30mb then it probably have lots of images | 12:21 |
| L0cutus | it is a rails book | 12:21 |
| czr | the 1.0-1.2 were still pretty good versions. although 1.2 started getting a lot of complex operators and implementing them correctly is difficult. | 12:21 |
| czr | what still gets me is pdfs total lack of unicode support. | 12:22 |
| czr | it's just crazy what must be done in order to embed a ttf which uses unidode codepoints (more than 256 of them at once) | 12:22 |
| TPC | sure, it would be better if everyone switched to LaTeX | 12:22 |
| TPC | but thats not going to happen | 12:22 |
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| czr | I'd think latex target is slightly different though | 12:23 |
| czr | anyhow, back to work -> | 12:23 |
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| sebu_ | hi! i locked my IT (n800) by accident (maemo didn't ask for original password when i accidentally chose "lock"). does anyone know how to fix this? | 12:24 |
| sebu_ | nokia service centers are not very helpful, here in my area they don't know how to handle a n800 | 12:25 |
| czr | try 12345? | 12:25 |
| czr | hmm. didn't it ask you for a lock code when you did the "device lock"? | 12:26 |
| sebu_ | czr, i had changed to code many months ago, i never itended so use the lock so i didn't remember the code :/ | 12:26 |
| czr | ah | 12:26 |
| czr | not sure whether reflashing will erase the lock | 12:26 |
| czr | anyone? | 12:26 |
| sebu_ | czr, nope, that's the problem | 12:26 |
| czr | I see. | 12:26 |
| X-Fade_ | sebu_: You can try to flash the old OS2006 image. I remember that there was a but in it that cleared the code.. | 12:27 |
| X-Fade_ | s/but/bug/ | 12:27 |
| infobot | X-Fade_ meant: sebu_: You can try to flash the old OS2006 image. I remember that there was a bug in it that cleared the code.. | 12:27 |
| sebu_ | czr, according to wiki flashing does not reset the lock (they say some old firmware updates reset it, but i don't know which... | 12:27 |
| sebu_ | X-Fade_, is there only one OS2006 image around? | 12:27 |
| X-Fade_ | And did you try that? | 12:27 |
| sebu_ | X-Fade_, i didn't try firmware updates yet for one reason: i have ssh access to the device, so i "hacked" it by replacing some binaries which block bootup / ask for the pin with dummy shell scripts :) so i can use the IT, but as soon as i reflash (and i want OS2008!) the device will be locked again | 12:29 |
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| X-Fade_ | sebu_: Just flash 2006 before you go to 2008 ;) | 12:30 |
| sebu_ | X-Fade_, do you know if there is only one OS2006 version? | 12:30 |
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| X-Fade_ | sebu_: And make a backup of your fs via ssh.. | 12:30 |
| X-Fade_ | sebu_: I think so.. | 12:30 |
| sebu_ | X-Fade_, do you have any source for the information that OS2006 resets the device lock code? (if not i'm locked out and have to send my IT to finland *ouch*) | 12:31 |
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| sebu_ | hmmm, wasn't N800 shipped with OS2007? i can't find OS2006 for N800... | 12:39 |
| kulve | yes it was | 12:40 |
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| unique311 | the browser is really sweet on the 08 | 12:42 |
| unique311 | tried the facebook. | 12:42 |
| unique311 | if you have a facebook, go with iphone.facebook.com alot of the crappy applications that people install are left out. | 12:43 |
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| gla55_ | friggin annoying and useless those apps | 12:45 |
| unique311 | yes | 12:45 |
| tigert | you can block them | 12:45 |
| gla55_ | but then again it's only thing that makes facebook a little unique | 12:45 |
| tigert | the most common and annoying ones | 12:45 |
| acydlord | the annoying facebook apps make up for all the animated gifs on myspace | 12:45 |
| unique311 | i hate all of those addon apps | 12:45 |
| gla55_ | i just don't browse othre peoples profiles | 12:45 |
| unique311 | becoming myspace really fast | 12:45 |
| acydlord | i quit using facebook about 2 weeks after they added the apps | 12:46 |
| gla55_ | only reason i got it to get in touch if i need with some hometown friends | 12:46 |
| unique311 | beginning to see ads | 12:46 |
| gla55_ | who are not in linkedin | 12:46 |
| gla55_ | 90% of the apps ARE ads | 12:46 |
| sebu_ | did you upgrade a N800 to OS2008? was the device lock pin reset? | 12:47 |
| unique311 | gotta expect that when something becomes very popular now. | 12:47 |
| unique311 | device lock pin? | 12:47 |
| unique311 | running it right now. | 12:47 |
| unique311 | for a good hour now | 12:48 |
| unique311 | no apps available for it. | 12:48 |
| unique311 | but it looks really good, and i cannot stop stressing this. | 12:48 |
| unique311 | shit | 12:48 |
| czr | it does look prettier :-) | 12:48 |
| tigert | cool :) | 12:49 |
| czr | unique311, using the combined image on n800? | 12:49 |
| * X-Fade_ is porting maemo-mapper to chinook atm. But it is quite a bit of work.. | 12:49 | |
| unique311 | combine image? wtf | 12:49 |
| unique311 | i just followed the instructions on cnet | 12:49 |
| unique311 | nothing special | 12:49 |
| unique311 | new OS should be out friday or next week. i hope. so i took the change on this. | 12:50 |
| TPC | next week? | 12:50 |
| TPC | on nokias website it says december | 12:50 |
| unique311 | hopefully | 12:50 |
| unique311 | wtf | 12:50 |
| unique311 | lol | 12:50 |
| unique311 | seriously | 12:50 |
| unique311 | thats not cool | 12:51 |
| TPC | but just flash over the 810 image :P | 12:51 |
| tigert | december is in 2 weeks or so anyway, right? :) | 12:51 |
| czr | unique311, combined fw. the one that is meant for RX-44 but says RX-34 ... COMBINED :-) | 12:51 |
| unique311 | czr, I do not know. I followed the instructions on cnet, and installed the OS | 12:52 |
| X-Fade_ | I understand all your excitement, but without ported apps OS2008 isn't very usefull ;) | 12:52 |
| czr | unique311, URL? | 12:52 |
| X-Fade_ | So start porting those apps please! | 12:52 |
| tigert | X-Fade_: no kidding | 12:52 |
| Gubbe | speaking of Chinook... Any idea why an osso_initialize() line that works in Bora fails in Chinook? | 12:53 |
| Gubbe | Returns NULL | 12:53 |
| unique311 | http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html | 12:53 |
| czr | Gubbe, you run with run-standalone.sh? | 12:54 |
| czr | unique311, step 3: ..COMBINED.. :-) | 12:54 |
| Gubbe | czr: No. What does it do? | 12:54 |
| Gubbe | I'm running on the device, latest RD image | 12:54 |
| unique311 | i worked on POSe, but with Garnet VM making its debut, i don't have to do a port for os2008. | 12:55 |
| unique311 | czr, cool | 12:55 |
| X-Fade_ | czr: Combined as in 'bootloaders,kernel, initfs and rootfs' ;) | 12:55 |
| czr | Gubbe, ah, then I don't know. works for me, but I'm not using latest rd | 12:55 |
| czr | X-Fade_, as opposed to LEGACY ;-) | 12:55 |
| Gubbe | czr: Right. Thanks anyway =) | 12:55 |
| czr | X-Fade_, any idea why they're flashing the parts separately though? in the instructions | 12:56 |
| X-Fade_ | czr: Nope, check OS2007 for 770.. | 12:56 |
| X-Fade_ | czr: As flashing the bootloaders will brick your device perhaps? :) | 12:56 |
| czr | X-Fade_, ah. I see. | 12:56 |
| unique311 | czr, that firmware was the only available firmware on the n810's page | 12:56 |
| czr | well. my image has LEGACY in it anyway. don't know/don't care what it means. but it's not COMBINED :-) | 12:56 |
| X-Fade_ | There _is_ a reason why Nokia provides a different image for N800. Be careful. | 12:56 |
| czr | unique311, I know | 12:56 |
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| Khertan | yes some custom things i think ... Like 'integrated gps panel' :) | 12:58 |
| Khertan | Python doesn t install | 12:59 |
| Gubbe | czr: Just to check, what image are you using where it does work? | 12:59 |
| czr | Gubbe, non-public ones | 12:59 |
| Khertan | i think all things aren t ready yet | 12:59 |
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| Khertan | It s what many people say on itt | 13:00 |
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| tigert | well, you can probably expect some hiccups if you shoehorn the n810 image to n800 | 13:01 |
| tigert | if it works, neat | 13:01 |
| tigert | also some stuff ight just not even work because the hw might be different | 13:02 |
| TPC | [11:52:17] <X-Fade_> I understand all your excitement, but without ported apps OS2008 isn't very usefull ;) | 13:02 |
| TPC | it has a shell and perl, what else could you possibly need? :P | 13:02 |
| tigert | ssh of course | 13:03 |
| tigert | but the bora build works | 13:03 |
| Khertan | Python to make application and port old one | 13:03 |
| Khertan | As python seems to be broken is the wmware sdk image | 13:04 |
| unique311 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=94509&postcount=18 | 13:05 |
| unique311 | check out that post | 13:05 |
| unique311 | very smart individual. | 13:05 |
| unique311 | figured out how to get that mac addy. | 13:06 |
| X-Fade_ | unique311: There is a reason why they ask you for that mac address. ;) | 13:07 |
| X-Fade_ | Stricly speaking you are commiting piracy :D | 13:07 |
| TPC | unique311, thanks for calling me smart :P | 13:07 |
| unique311 | i'm committing piracy. | 13:07 |
| unique311 | for posting the link. | 13:08 |
| unique311 | TPC, you're welcome | 13:08 |
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| unique311 | i hate pirates X-Fade_ | 13:09 |
| suihkulokki | unique311 is robbing ships? isn't that the definition of pirating? :P | 13:09 |
| czr | arrr | 13:09 |
| unique311 | i think he means the internet type | 13:09 |
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| TPC | I can't decide if I should try OS2008 now or wait for more apps to be ported | 13:11 |
| unique311 | X-Fade_, Honestly, more care when the pictures was being, and reviewing logs. All this would not be going on. | 13:12 |
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| unique311 | just find it funny. reading the thread on ITT people share the same views X-fade, but still they are running the new os on the n800. | 13:15 |
| X-Fade_ | unique311: Everybody is curious ;) | 13:16 |
| TPC | X-Fade_, also, strictly speaking he wasn't commiting piracy | 13:16 |
| X-Fade_ | Can't blame them for it.. | 13:16 |
| TPC | showing someone where something can be gotten is not illegal | 13:17 |
| TPC | only the act of actually getting it is | 13:17 |
| X-Fade_ | TPC: he installed it, right? :) | 13:17 |
| TPC | oh | 13:17 |
| TPC | I didn't know that :P | 13:17 |
| unique311 | i hate pirates, but once in a while uses the bittorrent..... ;) | 13:17 |
| unique311 | How do you know this X-Fade_ | 13:17 |
| X-Fade_ | 11:52 < unique311> czr, I do not know. I followed the instructions on cnet, and installed the OS | 13:18 |
| X-Fade_ | I have a backscroll, you know ;) | 13:18 |
| czr | X-Fade_ ? | 13:18 |
| czr | ah. I see, nm :-) | 13:19 |
| X-Fade_ | hehe ;) | 13:19 |
| unique311 | My words cannot be taken seriously. | 13:19 |
| X-Fade_ | unique311: I'm just messing with you, don't worry ;) | 13:20 |
| unique311 | I'm 25% crazy | 13:20 |
| czr | even crazy people go to prison :-) | 13:21 |
| unique311 | i speaka no engrish | 13:21 |
| czr | ah, that's much better :-) | 13:21 |
| unique311 | no crazy people go to the fun house, where they get lots of drugs.. | 13:21 |
| unique311 | much better than the big house, where they get lots of love | 13:21 |
| czr | well, I obviously have less experience in this than you, so :-) | 13:21 |
| unique311 | czr, you get in trouble with the law, plead crazy | 13:22 |
| czr | I don't get into trouble. | 13:22 |
| unique311 | good to know type of advice. | 13:23 |
| unique311 | especially if you don't get in trouble. | 13:23 |
| unique311 | I got in trouble once, and i couldn't use the crazy excuse. | 13:24 |
| unique311 | i hop the turnstile when i was 16 | 13:24 |
| unique311 | that wasn't fun. | 13:24 |
| unique311 | $1.50 turn out to be $175 | 13:25 |
| unique311 | fine | 13:25 |
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| maddler | morning all... | 13:37 |
| Jaffa | lo maddler | 13:38 |
| sebu_ | anyone experience about / hints for downgrading n800 to OS2006 (yes, you're reading right, not OS2008) | 13:38 |
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| workingplayya | hi | 13:39 |
| _Monkey | hola, workingplayya | 13:39 |
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| Ar-ras | hi | 13:39 |
| workingplayya | is there a GtkScaleButton in maemo | 13:39 |
| Ar-ras | does somebody got a hacked fiasco image of OS2008? | 13:40 |
| workingplayya | i have a not hacked one but you dont get it | 13:40 |
| Ar-ras | lol | 13:41 |
| Ar-ras | workingplayya http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810/downloads/RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin | 13:41 |
| Ar-ras | i have this one | 13:41 |
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| workingplayya | i have a other one but cant show you the url | 13:42 |
| Ar-ras | whats the name of the arm.bin? | 13:43 |
| Ar-ras | :D | 13:43 |
| Khertan | Witch one ? | 13:43 |
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| workingplayya | we got a witch in here? | 13:44 |
| timeless | which witch is which? | 13:44 |
| czr | who ate the wristwatch in the sandwidch? | 13:44 |
| Khertan | Arf i m not english and my english is worse | 13:44 |
| * timeless passes czr a spell checker | 13:44 | |
| czr | timeless, ignore my previous post about problem with microb+flash thingy | 13:44 |
| czr | sandwitch | 13:44 |
| czr | sandwich :-) | 13:44 |
| timeless | czr: scrollback? | 13:44 |
| czr | timeless, yeah. just ignore it | 13:45 |
| workingplayya | `GtkScaleButton' undeclared (first use in this function) is it available? | 13:45 |
| Ar-ras | sandbitch :D | 13:45 |
| workingplayya | maybe in hildon libs | 13:45 |
| timeless | ok | 13:45 |
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| inz | working, GtkScaleButton first appeared in gtk 2.12 | 13:48 |
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| workingplayya | inz cant find it in /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gtk | 13:50 |
| inz | working, that's because maemo <4.0 has 2.6 and >= 4.0 has 2.10 | 13:51 |
| workingplayya | oh | 13:54 |
| workingplayya | i thougt you ment its working :D | 13:54 |
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| timeless | inz: your inequality is wrong on the >= side :) | 14:07 |
| timeless | it should be >= 2.10 ;-) | 14:07 |
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| mlunde | Hmm, thought this link would reveal the N810: http://www.nseries.com/truestories/ | 14:10 |
| mlunde | But it just stopped counting down. | 14:10 |
| timeless | http://www.nseries.com/truestories/main.swf | 14:10 |
| timeless | http://www.womworld.com/nseries/wp-rss2.php?cat=511 | 14:10 |
| timeless | http://widget.meebo.com/mcr.swf?id=HWEXbukIpH | 14:10 |
| timeless | nice page | 14:10 |
| * timeless kicks nokia | 14:10 | |
| mlunde | Hmm, maybe it was just count down for the N82. | 14:12 |
| mlunde | But I'm still disapointed | 14:12 |
| Khertan | If you decompile the flash applet you ll see reference to n82 | 14:14 |
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| timeless | note that nseries != n8xx | 14:15 |
| timeless | nseries includes the n81 gb | 14:16 |
| timeless | and various other "devices" | 14:16 |
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| gla55_ | that start with n.. | 14:16 |
| timeless | i'd call them "multimedia computers", but currently i'm yelling at someone for .... | 14:16 |
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| gla55_ | they call them multimedia computers | 14:16 |
| gla55_ | they as in nokia | 14:16 |
| timeless | they as in someone in marketing | 14:16 |
| gla55_ | they made a big hassle of it.. hmm was it last year | 14:17 |
| gla55_ | that they're no longer phones | 14:17 |
| timeless | because, when was the last time your laptop refused to connect to the ethernet cable simply because your wifi card was disabled | 14:17 |
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| timeless | or when was the last time your laptop refused to mute just because it wasn't connected to a network | 14:17 |
| gla55_ | ehm | 14:17 |
| timeless | my first nseries device has both of those features | 14:17 |
| gla55_ | what n-series phone does that happen? | 14:17 |
| Ar-ras | is there a port of flasher-3 for windows? | 14:17 |
| timeless | probably all of them | 14:17 |
| gla55_ | i can even get wifi when in offline from gsm network | 14:17 |
| timeless | gla55_: try removing the sim | 14:17 |
| gla55_ | and chance to having no sounds in offline | 14:18 |
| timeless | and then switching to silent mode | 14:18 |
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| gla55_ | oh, silent mode is an online mode | 14:18 |
| gla55_ | but my offline mode is set to silent so.. | 14:18 |
| rothiel | hi :) | 14:18 |
| gla55_ | "silent" is just a profile name, can be changed too | 14:19 |
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| timeless | yeah, but you can't change to any profile w/o a sim | 14:19 |
| timeless | which is what's bothering me | 14:19 |
| timeless | and it refuses to automatically use the wifi in most apps | 14:19 |
| timeless | it'll say ~you're offline, do you really want to activate (wifi|bluetooth)~ | 14:20 |
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| timeless | i've been using this n81 for two days w/o the sim and intend to until probably monday | 14:20 |
| gla55_ | what you'd need would be more offline profiles, so you could have offline-silent and offline-sounds | 14:21 |
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| timeless | i want an offline-online profile | 14:21 |
| timeless | so that i can use bluetooth and wifi without being bothered | 14:21 |
| timeless | but yes, for now, an offline-silent v. offline-sounds would be a start | 14:22 |
| timeless | btw, can you find a "support" section for the n81/ | 14:22 |
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| timeless | i'd like to ask why i can't activate maps using my wifi network | 14:22 |
| inz | timeless, it should've most likely been >= 4.0 && < 5.0 | 14:22 |
| timeless | inz: probably | 14:22 |
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| timeless | 'course, there's no guarantee wrt what 4.1 will have | 14:23 |
| timeless | (if it exists!) | 14:23 |
| timeless | hrm | 14:23 |
| timeless | has nokia broken ABI in minor releases? | 14:23 |
| gla55_ | timeless: "support"? i would imagine most s60 3rd ed tips/tricks/etc are the same as on any other | 14:23 |
| alterego | Crap, what's the command to force a debian package to reconfigure? | 14:23 |
| timeless | gla: phone number that'd get me someone who will "help" or listen | 14:23 |
| inz | timeless, at least the packages I've built with 3.0 target have all worked on 3.2 | 14:24 |
| gla55_ | timeless: hah.. no, not really. | 14:24 |
| inz | timeless, same goes for 2.0 and 2.2 | 14:24 |
| timeless | inz: ok :) | 14:24 |
| gla55_ | timeless: call centers just know the stuff thats on manual... | 14:24 |
| inz | alterego, dpkg --force-all --configure <packagename>? | 14:24 |
| alterego | inz, thanks :) | 14:24 |
| inz | alterego, oh sorry, reconfigure, dunno that | 14:24 |
| inz | alterego, dpkg-reconfigure should help you there | 14:25 |
| alterego | Okay. | 14:25 |
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| X-Fade_ | Sweet, I just managed to port maemo-mapper to chinook ;) | 14:30 |
| alterego | Good job. | 14:33 |
| alterego | Maemo mapper is funky. | 14:33 |
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| Khertan | osso-email still doesn t work more than an half day | 14:42 |
| tigert | X-Fade_: got a package? :) | 14:43 |
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| tigert | X-Fade_: yay! | 14:43 |
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| X-Fade | tigert: privmsg.. | 14:45 |
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| guardian | hello | 14:54 |
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| guardian | still cannot login on maemo.org :( | 14:55 |
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| timeless | guardian: eh? | 15:04 |
| guardian | registered yesterday on garage, login on maemo.org doesn't work | 15:05 |
| timeless | so, i found the best way to hunt for lost devices in my apt | 15:06 |
| timeless | send them files via bluetooth :) | 15:06 |
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| pc_speaker | So when we'll be able to install Android based platform to our tablets? | 15:08 |
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| pc_speaker | Android makes nokia's internet table os efforts slightly obsolete IMHO... | 15:09 |
| unique311 | heard of people asking for the web browser...you want the whole enchilada | 15:09 |
| unique311 | you work for google pc_speaker? | 15:09 |
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| pc_speaker | No I don't work for Google :) | 15:10 |
| pc_speaker | But it's good idea to have only one mobile linux platform. | 15:11 |
| kulve | pc_speaker: I totally disagree with you :) | 15:11 |
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| kulve | (with the first comment) | 15:11 |
| unique311 | google is following suit on what nokia is doing. by the time android make its grand entrance in the game, ITos is going to be so advance. | 15:11 |
| pc_speaker | So the time won't be wasted doing same things. | 15:11 |
| pc_speaker | But nokia is not going to pay 10 millions to the developers :))) | 15:12 |
| unique311 | money talks.. | 15:12 |
| suihkulokki | pc_speaker: have you actually looked at the android? the only amazing thing is that it is attached to the google trademark. | 15:12 |
| unique311 | you are right | 15:12 |
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| unique311 | suihkulokki, he is right about the money | 15:12 |
| milhouse | unique311 - at least android already supports 3d which is more than you can say for IT OS... | 15:12 |
| suihkulokki | 3d on android is on the roadmap, there is no 3d usage visible in what they have so far shown | 15:13 |
| milhouse | sure there is, watch the video on youtube | 15:13 |
| unique311 | suihkulokki, they do have 3d support already. | 15:14 |
| unique311 | they showed the spinning globe time app | 15:14 |
| suihkulokki | I'm looking at the sources. the videos could be..videos! | 15:14 |
| jott | and they use gl for compositing/transition effects.. | 15:14 |
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| jott | suihkulokki: just grab the sdk and launch the emulator ;) | 15:15 |
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| suihkulokki | I did try the emulator, and was deeply unimpressed | 15:16 |
| zuh | I'm sure software GL rendering is available, but I doubt that will make anyone happy... | 15:16 |
| unique311 | thats alot of money. | 15:16 |
| unique311 | 10 million is going to make alot of devs happy | 15:16 |
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| jott | zuh: GL support is merely a driver issue nowadays.. | 15:17 |
| dpb_ | unique311: depends how many devs they are giving that to.. 10 million devs? Wouldn't make them really happe.. ;) | 15:17 |
| zuh | jott: exactly | 15:17 |
| dpb_ | happy* | 15:17 |
| jott | omap 2420 also has a powervr on it.. | 15:18 |
| unique311 | aots: the max is in the 6 digits | 15:18 |
| zuh | jott: so if your hardware has no drivers, Android will be just as useless as an 3D renderer as N800 currently is | 15:18 |
| unique311 | attack of the show on g4tv | 15:18 |
| milhouse | jott: yes but no driver for powervr | 15:19 |
| pc_speaker | I don't have anything about maemo platform but I think android can be cool on nokia tablets... | 15:19 |
| milhouse | zuh: indeed, major snafu designing a platform with these powervr jokers on board | 15:19 |
| jott | yes, drivers are the major problem...and there are drivers for powervr but none are public and all are closed source.. | 15:20 |
| unique311 | dpb_, pretty sure 6 figures to develop for android would make anyone happy | 15:20 |
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| unique311 | was it 6 or 5 | 15:20 |
| unique311 | still alot | 15:20 |
| milhouse | upto 300K i heard | 15:20 |
| suihkulokki | the 10 million is not going to help you write xterm with root prompt | 15:21 |
| suihkulokki | since you are sandboxed in dalvik vm | 15:21 |
| jott | btw.. what's the actual reason for nokia in not really trying to get drivers from imagination tech for the n8xx?! | 15:22 |
| wumpus | money | 15:22 |
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| kulve | jott: nokia hasn't made any statements about that | 15:22 |
| milhouse | politics, money, crap company (imagination) - take your pick | 15:22 |
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| wumpus | they said they are trying to get the drivers | 15:23 |
| milhouse | intel won't have such problems | 15:23 |
| kulve | wumpus: where? | 15:23 |
| milhouse | "trying"? this is Nokia not some mickey mouse outfit... | 15:23 |
| wumpus | I remember some nokia guy saying it in this channel, some time ago | 15:23 |
| alterego | What is it with this android thing? | 15:23 |
| wumpus | but they had problems | 15:23 |
| alterego | Why is it so great? | 15:23 |
| * alterego dispairs. | 15:24 | |
| unique311 | its not, its google | 15:24 |
| alterego | Who'd actually choose to program in Java .. | 15:24 |
| alterego | Some people I just don't get .. :) | 15:24 |
| wumpus | non-technical reasons, so yeah must be some politics or they ask exorbitant prices | 15:24 |
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| lopz | hola | 15:25 |
| milhouse | If Nokia wanted PowerVR drivers they'd have them by now - easy answer is to tell TI to get stuffed we're not buying your chips any more unless PowerVR get a clue | 15:25 |
| Khertan | Android is just a repack of java with some library ... Nothing more | 15:25 |
| milhouse | not really java | 15:26 |
| alterego | Sure looked like Java to me. | 15:26 |
| milhouse | not a java vm | 15:26 |
| milhouse | C# looks a lot like Java | 15:26 |
| alterego | Sure, everyone knows that. | 15:26 |
| Khertan | not a java vm of course it s googlevm | 15:26 |
| alterego | milhouse, it is Java. Just because it's not the standard VM doesn't mean it's not Java. | 15:26 |
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| alterego | Comparing that difference to Java and C# is stupid. | 15:27 |
| Khertan | Just a name change | 15:27 |
| _berto_ | there are millions of java programmers out there, it's not strange that people want to make programs | 15:27 |
| alterego | _berto_, agreed. But who'd want to write in Java? | 15:27 |
| jott | all those million java programmers out there?! | 15:27 |
| Khertan | Millions people forced o | 15:27 |
| alterego | Python, Ruby .. They're so much more powerfull. | 15:27 |
| Khertan | To write java ? | 15:28 |
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| _berto_ | I'm not saying which one is better or worse | 15:28 |
| _berto_ | I'd just said that there are millions of java programmers | 15:28 |
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| felipec | Java is actually a good language to code in. The problem is the VM sometimes is not that good | 15:28 |
| _berto_ | and most of them haven't touched a line of gtk or python in their lives | 15:28 |
| _berto_ | those are the ones who would like to program in java, I guess | 15:28 |
| felipec | I guess Java in Android will run much better than Python/ruby in maemo | 15:29 |
| alterego | Not really. | 15:29 |
| alterego | Well, yes. | 15:29 |
| alterego | But that doesn't matter. | 15:29 |
| milhouse | "not really java" <--- ok it's the java language, but not a java system | 15:29 |
| alterego | And what's "better"? | 15:29 |
| alterego | milhouse, java system? | 15:29 |
| _berto_ | it doesn't matter, you asked who would want to write in java | 15:29 |
| _berto_ | I answered | 15:29 |
| alterego | milhouse, we know it's not Suns' VM why don't you just drop it. It's Java :P | 15:30 |
| milhouse | java system -> java bytecode | 15:30 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: the Java class library's a pretty strong incentive. As is the fact that any language which compiles to bytecode (JRuby, Groovy, Jython) can also be used and then compiled to their custom bytecode. | 15:30 |
| alterego | Jaffa, that's something I'm quite interested in ;) Though I think I prefer xruby. | 15:30 |
| milhouse | jaffa - sure, just thought I'd make the point it's not a fully fledged java "system" as most people might understand it... | 15:31 |
| Khertan | "Java will run better in android than python in maemo" ... Your re kidding ? | 15:31 |
| alterego | O_o | 15:31 |
| Jaffa | milhouse: indeed. | 15:31 |
| Jaffa | Khertan: I'd put money on it. A lot of money on it. | 15:31 |
| Jaffa | Python on Maemo takes too long to start up, for one. | 15:32 |
| alterego | What's "better"? | 15:32 |
| gla55_ | it's not java bytecode in android | 15:32 |
| Khertan | Startup and after ... | 15:32 |
| Khertan | Have you try a jvm on an arm ? It s really slow | 15:32 |
| alterego | I guess they can't take advantage of ARM Java acceleration .. | 15:32 |
| Khertan | Specially in gui | 15:33 |
| gla55_ | no use arguing about it before they bring devices | 15:33 |
| alterego | I think that's based more on opinion. | 15:33 |
| felipec | "better" as in "apparently better from the user's perspective" as in more responsive and faster | 15:33 |
| gla55_ | can't know how fast they are | 15:33 |
| milhouse | altergo: more NDA crapness regarding Jazelle, this time from ARM... :( | 15:33 |
| Jaffa | Khertan: a) it isn't interpreting Java bytecode; b) given their system is based around Java, they'd be nuts to have it as slow as Python on Maemo. If every app on Maemo was written in Python, the interpreter load time problem would be fixed fairly quickly. | 15:34 |
| suihkulokki | so all of you guys are ready to give up r00t for a java-incompatible java-like vm ? | 15:34 |
| alterego | Are you sure it's the interpreter load time? | 15:34 |
| gla55_ | android so far seems just like savaje on crack | 15:34 |
| * Jaffa will use whatever device allows him the most flexibility, whilst providing the features I want, in a rich and powerfuld evelopment environment. | 15:34 | |
| gla55_ | = boring | 15:34 |
| alterego | suihkulokki, not me. I don't like that idea at all. | 15:34 |
| milhouse | I'm with Jaffa | 15:35 |
| gla55_ | what matters is what kind of devices it will come out on and whats allowed on those devices.. | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | gla55_: a good point, but Google's ploughing money into it, so it's worth watching. | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | gla55_: exactly. | 15:35 |
| gla55_ | jaffa: yeah worth watching like the other linux for mobile phones alliances | 15:35 |
| alterego | I'm more interested in making Maemo the best :) | 15:35 |
| milhouse | Also... write once run anywhere... | 15:35 |
| milhouse | ARM... x86... | 15:35 |
| gla55_ | jaffa: and it's fast enough to switch deving for it if they get enough marketshare that they matter | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | gla55_: worth watching slightly more because of Google, but not much more - I grant you. | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | gla55_: agreed. | 15:36 |
| felipec | indeed, and I bet Google can put some millions here and there to make an efficient Java VM, but I agree, only when the devices are out we will see | 15:36 |
| alterego | I doubt they'll be short of devs .. | 15:36 |
| vegai | lua would make more sense than python anyway. It's meant for small devices more than python. | 15:36 |
| alterego | They've done some impressive stuff already. Why don't we see if we can make Maemo more competitive. | 15:36 |
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| Jaffa | Out of all the Linux for mobile initiatives, I reckon Google's got the best chance, since they like tooling and they've got the brand and wallets. Maemo/UME are fine for tablet-style devices; I'll be surprised if OpenMoko's anything more than a niche running on just their phones | 15:37 |
| alterego | And we have great hardware now .. | 15:37 |
| gla55_ | well, if they're really as open as they say, port the androids vm thing to maemo.. that runs their fancy bytecode | 15:37 |
| alterego | Not just the VM though is it .. It's all the services and API's too. | 15:38 |
| milhouse | alterego - do we?! still the same cruddy N800 video hardware in the N810... | 15:38 |
| milhouse | dodgey touchscreen... | 15:38 |
| * Jaffa 's commitment to Maemo lasts as long as the device does what he wants, can be customised to do what he wants, and gets bribed with cheap devices. | 15:38 | |
| milhouse | naff all 3d support | 15:38 |
| alterego | All of which I can live without happily .. | 15:38 |
| unique311 | cheap shot | 15:38 |
| alterego | The tablets will be great. | 15:38 |
| milhouse | the touchscreen is beginning to annoy me | 15:38 |
| alterego | We're still only in the second generation .. | 15:39 |
| Jaffa | I thought we're at step 3 now? | 15:39 |
| alterego | Still in the research and development phase really. | 15:39 |
| milhouse | true, but it's tough to call the hardware "great" | 15:39 |
| felipec | also the fact that so many big industry players are behind Andriod makes me think it won't be crappy | 15:39 |
| alterego | Jaffa, N800 and N810 are so similar .. | 15:39 |
| felipec | http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html | 15:39 |
| milhouse | "good" yes, but not great - it needs to improve | 15:39 |
| alterego | I think it's great. | 15:39 |
| alterego | But it's a matter of opinion. | 15:39 |
| Jaffa | alterego: I'm quoting a Nokia exec, there. | 15:39 |
| jott | it still needs 3d drivers ;) | 15:39 |
| alterego | Why does it _need_ it? | 15:40 |
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| jott | to make use of it?! | 15:40 |
| alterego | And why doesn't someone dev some OSS drivers :P | 15:40 |
| Jaffa | I think the hardware's pretty fab. But the Eee is now undercutting the tablet and is more functional; the iPhone's raised the software game. OS2008 and the N810 look good, and I'm sure *I*'ll enjoy them; but larger market => more devs => more apps => more useful. | 15:40 |
| jott | alterego: oss drivers would be even better, thats for sure ;) | 15:40 |
| Jaffa | alterego: If we haven't yet got 3D OSS drivers for NVIDIA cards, why on earth would we have them for some niche little TI chip? | 15:41 |
| Jaffa | Not many Linux hackers working on OMAP, compared with nouveau | 15:41 |
| jott | Jaffa: well that's a matter of specs.. :/ | 15:41 |
| alterego | There are OSS nVidia drivers .. | 15:41 |
| gla55_ | i don't really care if it would be oss drivers or not | 15:41 |
| gla55_ | just that nokia would make it happen | 15:41 |
| lardman | powervr? | 15:41 |
| Jaffa | alterego: They just do 2D on a limited subset of cards. There's very little 3D support beyond *sometimes* running glgears | 15:41 |
| alterego | :) | 15:42 |
| alterego | If I knew how to develop PowerVR drivers for the OMAP I would. | 15:42 |
| wumpus | Jaffa: at least people are working on them | 15:42 |
| X-Fade | It seems that pepperpad had drivers for linux 2.6 for the powervr chip. So it shouldn't be terribly hard to get them? | 15:42 |
| alterego | But I don't so I'm not going to :) | 15:42 |
| Jaffa | wumpus: indeed. | 15:42 |
| alterego | X-Fade, the drivers are free but they don't work with Maemo binaries. | 15:42 |
| alterego | It's binary incompatible .. | 15:43 |
| lardman | have you tried? | 15:43 |
| X-Fade | alterego: Sure, but they are not a big company :) | 15:43 |
| alterego | Anyhow, I need a shower. | 15:43 |
| wumpus | X-Fade: it's not for the right architecture afaik | 15:43 |
| lardman | is it possible to use kernel drivers from a different version kernel? | 15:43 |
| Jaffa | It's going to be easier to decompile them, and reassemble them than it is to write OSS drivers from scratch. | 15:43 |
| lardman | ah, ok | 15:43 |
| alterego | Jaffa, yeah. That thought crossed my mind several times .. | 15:43 |
| X-Fade | http://updates.pepper.com/pub/pepperpad/sources/pepperpad2/3.0.3/pvrdrv.ko.tar | 15:44 |
| X-Fade | vermagic: 2.6.13.4 preempt ARMv5 gcc-3.4 | 15:44 |
| wumpus | well if it's only for one graphics chip, writing drivers isn't that teriibly hard, the hard part of nouveau and other open source drivers is having to supports zillions of cards | 15:44 |
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| Jaffa | wumpus: that's true | 15:45 |
| jott | and the drivers would only need to support the opengl es subset ;) | 15:45 |
| X-Fade | My guess is that the powervr is seriously underpowerd for our screensize. And maybe has the same bus issues as movies have? | 15:45 |
| wumpus | but you'd still need to know what commands to send to the chip.. or even where to send the commands at all | 15:45 |
| wumpus | yes, it has the same bus issues | 15:45 |
| wumpus | it'd only speed up rendering to a memory buffer, not sending it through the slow pipe to the LCD | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | And is designed for 320x240 orso :) | 15:46 |
| Jaffa | I've not looked at the architecture diagram recently, but the problem with the video bandwidth is getting frames from the CPU to the LCD controller. That problem would exist whether the ARM core's doing it or the PowerVR bit of the chip | 15:46 |
| Jaffa | ...i.e. what wumpus said | 15:46 |
| wumpus | indeed Jaffa | 15:46 |
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| Jaffa | Still, 320x240 fastly rendered 3D would be better than none ;-) | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Sure ;) | 15:46 |
| wumpus | if it's faster than software rendering it'd already be great | 15:47 |
| X-Fade | Having some nice clutter stuff on opengl es would be nice.. | 15:47 |
| * timeless rotfl | 15:47 | |
| timeless | i'm in trouble | 15:47 |
| timeless | i just corrupted my coworker's new phone | 15:47 |
| timeless | it's an n81 8gb | 15:47 |
| timeless | except, i managed to corrupt the 8gb part | 15:47 |
| inz | and you're laughing, because? | 15:47 |
| timeless | so now he just has a very unuseful device | 15:48 |
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| timeless | well, the bad part is that i'm sharing a cabin with him tonight | 15:48 |
| Spakman | I'm writing a Ruby hildon app which creates and draws a lot of pixmaps from pixbufs. I'm finding that the X memory usage escalates quickly even though my objects are out of scope. Does anyone know how to free/destroy the pixmaps in the X server? | 15:48 |
| lardman | https://focus-webapps.ti.com/general/docs/event/eventresultsaction.tsp?actionId=264 is another option for the kernel driver | 15:48 |
| lardman | 2.6.10 | 15:48 |
| timeless | my coworker asks if the same people who developed the mmc support for the n800/n810 are responsible for the n81 8gb :) | 15:48 |
| timeless | so at least he has a sense of humor :) | 15:48 |
| timeless | oh, that's better, i also broke the reporting app | 15:49 |
| milhouse | having 3D OpenGL support on the Nx0, crappy video bandwidth or not, would be a good proving ground for the Step 4 device (N900?) that almost certainly wouldn't (fingers crossed) have crap video bandwidth. | 15:49 |
| tigert | stay away from my N81 :D | 15:49 |
| wumpus | lardman: but does it include the powervr driver? | 15:49 |
| lardman | yes | 15:49 |
| jott | lardman: yeah but thats omap2430 :/ | 15:50 |
| lardman | true, the 2420 link says to grab the 2430 sdk... | 15:50 |
| jott | well if they wrote a generic driver it could be worth a try.. | 15:50 |
| lardman | what does a fillrate of over 300 million pixels/s give in terms of resolution vs framerate | 15:51 |
| TPC | I'm making a backup of my N800 to reflash for the first time | 15:51 |
| * lardman looks for a calc | 15:51 | |
| TPC | I copied the home dir, did a backup with the internal backup program, and saved copied dpkg --get-selections | 15:51 |
| lardman | http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp?Page=4 | 15:51 |
| TPC | did I miss something? | 15:51 |
| wumpus | some time ago I tried various things to load that kernel module, but it stubbornly refused any try :) | 15:51 |
| unique311 | TPC, are you going with 08? | 15:52 |
| TPC | unique311, yes | 15:52 |
| lardman | wumpus: it's big too, ~1MB! | 15:52 |
| wumpus | there should be an option somewhere for linux to ignore the version info, but haven't found it | 15:52 |
| wumpus | yep, very big, that kind of makes reverse engineering out of the question too | 15:53 |
| pc_speaker | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11693&page=4 | 15:53 |
| lardman | I was thinking of creating a gpe-image with the correct kernel version, etc. to see if it would work | 15:53 |
| pc_speaker | I hope everyone already flahed os2008 to their n800? :) | 15:53 |
| lardman | Right, in terms of fillrate, the powervr mbx should manage ~975fps | 15:53 |
| wumpus | it's bigger than the nvidia driver for x86, it probably includes an entire opengl implementation... maybe this 'powervr' is a few instructions to speed up 3d, like 3dnow, and not a real hardware renderer | 15:54 |
| lardman | it is real hw, http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp?Page=1 | 15:54 |
| gla55_ | it's more than just instructions thats for sure | 15:55 |
| lardman | but yes, most of the opengl stuff may be in that module | 15:55 |
| gla55_ | you can see the hw in action in n95 and e90 | 15:55 |
| milhouse | isn't powervr based on rendering "tiles"? | 15:55 |
| gla55_ | yeah | 15:55 |
| gla55_ | some stuff like that | 15:55 |
| wumpus | I just don't see how a hardware accelerated opengl es driver tailored to a single chip should be that big | 15:56 |
| lardman | hasn't the pepperpad got a different powervr chip type? | 15:56 |
| gla55_ | isn't pepperpad geode based? | 15:56 |
| Spakman | alterego: are you around? | 15:56 |
| wumpus | the new one is, the old one was arm based I think | 15:57 |
| lardman | it has powervr mbx lite rather than our mbx | 15:57 |
| * lardman wonders how large the 2.4.x driver is from Ti? | 15:58 | |
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| jott | well if you strip the 1mb module its down to 63kb ;) | 15:59 |
| lardman | ah-ha | 15:59 |
| wumpus | are you sure you can strip kernel modules safely? | 15:59 |
| wumpus | that'd be fun, because it means they include 900kb of debug symbols | 16:00 |
| lardman | would make life easier at least | 16:00 |
| jott | makes the objdump -d output nice ;) | 16:00 |
| wumpus | indeed | 16:00 |
| jott | 14988 lines of objdump asm code ;) | 16:01 |
| lardman | is their opengl implementation also unstripped? | 16:01 |
| wumpus | but yeah someone should try loading the module first, even if you patch the version info using a hex editor :P | 16:01 |
| * lardman is using WinXP atm so can't look | 16:01 | |
| jott | mh i suppose the sdk might contain debug symbols - would make sense at least ;) | 16:02 |
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| lardman | probably get symbols errors though | 16:02 |
| unique311 | so you get the chip working, what next? | 16:02 |
| wumpus | the kernel interface usually is quite stable between releases | 16:02 |
| lardman | opengl is the next step | 16:03 |
| wumpus | well if it at least recognizes the chip then you are sure the driver works, which would be a very nice start | 16:03 |
| * jott still needs a real device :( | 16:04 | |
| * jott pokes nokia so they finally release the n810 | 16:04 | |
| wumpus | although modern graphics drivers usually just map the device to user space, and let the opengl lib handle the rest | 16:05 |
| jott | but it's still funny to release a module with full debug symbols for an embedded device :) | 16:06 |
| wumpus | yeah | 16:06 |
| lardman | well it is for the devel toolchain | 16:06 |
| wumpus | although the debug symbols are not loaded into memory | 16:06 |
| jott | ah ok.. | 16:06 |
| TPC | hm.. now I'm running 2008 | 16:07 |
| TPC | the UI certainly feels alot faster | 16:07 |
| lardman | hmm, the omap2430 also has the mbx lite | 16:07 |
| TPC | there are fewer steps for the backlight | 16:07 |
| unique311 | feels link a new device don't it? | 16:08 |
| unique311 | check out the youtube TPC | 16:09 |
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| lardman | mbx lite loses fsaa | 16:09 |
| wumpus | they're probably at least compatible | 16:10 |
| FunkyPenguin | afternoon all, bit of a contentious question here - what is the better pim suite for the n800 pimlico or gpe? | 16:10 |
| wumpus | or share parts of the command set | 16:10 |
| jott | this TI OMAP sdks are insane.. .zip -> .exe (wtf?! wine to the rescue) -> .zip -> phew! | 16:10 |
| FunkyPenguin | ideally i would like to have the tablet as the canonical repository and both phone and laptop sync to it | 16:11 |
| lardman | try the 2.4.x version (I think) ~55Mb self-extracting shell script :) | 16:11 |
| wumpus | hehe | 16:11 |
| lardman | how legal is reverse engineering? | 16:11 |
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| jott | but why the hell one packages an exe with zip and this exe is just an installer that has another zip in it!? | 16:11 |
| wumpus | depends on where you live | 16:11 |
| jott | lardman: here it is legal to ensure interoperability (ianal) | 16:12 |
| wumpus | I don't think it's a good idea to talk about it in public | 16:12 |
| lardman | Just wondering in general terms | 16:12 |
| wumpus | intercepting rendering commands to the hardware is legal though, so that's usually how os drivers are developed, not by disassembly | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Just do a clean reimplementation.. reverse engineer and write a description. Someone else needs to write a driver based on the description. | 16:13 |
| jott | but in the end its a matter of jurisdiction.. | 16:13 |
| lardman | X-Fade: Is that legal though? For the person who does the reverse engineering? | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | Well, 'just' ;) | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | lardman: As long as that is legal in your country.. | 16:13 |
| lardman | wumpus: yes, intercepting the commands would be reasonable | 16:14 |
| lardman | lol, round in circles | 16:14 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Everone not in the US, should be a lot more safe.. | 16:14 |
| wumpus | anyway, if you do use disassembly, don't tell anyone | 16:14 |
| lardman | wumpus: in which case I wonder if the kernel driver could be wrapped and the wrapper used to link in, no problems with kernel version then | 16:15 |
| X-Fade | But if they wrote an opensource driver, that is a lot easier ;) | 16:15 |
| lardman | they won't | 16:15 |
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| wumpus | lardman: yes, probably, but then we'll have to find out to wrap which symbols | 16:15 |
| timeless | ok, after a couple of reboots it no longer things the 8gb is corrupt ... | 16:15 |
| lardman | wumpus: intercepting the commands will be as bad though | 16:16 |
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| wumpus | well before we can intercept commands we need to have a working driver | 16:16 |
| wumpus | so it's really not the way in this case | 16:16 |
| wumpus | wrapping is indeed the best | 16:16 |
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| jott | and if we had a working driver many people would be more or less satisfied ;) | 16:17 |
| wumpus | the most trivial brute force way to find out is overriding the version info in the 2.6.10 release, then see where loading goes wrong | 16:17 |
| wumpus | unless the abi and not the name of some kernel call changed and it just crashes, but yeah | 16:18 |
| wumpus | you'd have to dump which kernel symbols it uses and which ones changed between that kernel and the current | 16:18 |
| wumpus | luckily, the kernel IS open source :P | 16:19 |
| wumpus | another problem coudl be the binary format -- is it compiled for the same ARM ? | 16:19 |
| lardman | no idea | 16:19 |
| wumpus | I suppose so if it's omap | 16:19 |
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| lardman | jott: you got the file in front of you? | 16:20 |
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| lardman | wumpus: arm vs armel you mean? | 16:20 |
| wumpus | jott: yes, if we can at least demonstrate it working then we can start thinking about making open drivers | 16:21 |
| wumpus | but personally I'd be satisfied with 'working' too | 16:21 |
| wumpus | lardman: yes | 16:21 |
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| jott | mh the sdk even contains a libX11.so .. is this a patched version? | 16:22 |
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| alterego | Spakman, I'm back. | 16:23 |
| lardman | jott: I thought not (no reason though) as I think it's just so you can install the whole lot on your dev board and get working straight away | 16:23 |
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| wumpus | I don't think libX11 is patched | 16:23 |
| wumpus | it's not something you usually change for a graphics driver | 16:23 |
| wumpus | and this one doesn't even talk to a graphics card | 16:24 |
| timeless | *arg* | 16:24 |
| timeless | stupid | 16:24 |
| timeless | podcasting was downloading to internal memory | 16:24 |
| jott | yeah you are probably right.. but who knows what ti does :) | 16:24 |
| lardman | I can't see any handy ascii strings with 2.6.10 in them | 16:24 |
| TPC | stupid things taking up space | 16:25 |
| wumpus | heh, maybe it'd be possible to change the insmod source to just not check :) | 16:25 |
| lardman | true | 16:26 |
| TPC | I might have to get myself a 16GB SDHC card | 16:26 |
| wumpus | does that work in the device at all TPC ? | 16:26 |
| * timeless rotfl | 16:27 | |
| TPC | wumpus, from what I've heard yes | 16:27 |
| timeless | "Download limit exceeded" | 16:27 |
| alterego | It's not TI. It's imgtec | 16:27 |
| lardman | jott: can you see what version of libc they link against? | 16:27 |
| alterego | TPC, that wont work in the tablet. | 16:27 |
| wumpus | lardman: at least libc version is no problem with the kernel module, might be for the GL lib though | 16:27 |
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| Ar-ras | YEAH | 16:27 |
| Ar-ras | IT OS 2008 on N800 | 16:28 |
| X-Fade | *sigh* :) | 16:28 |
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| lardman | wumpus: did you use insmod -f and it still failed? | 16:28 |
| X-Fade | lardman: You'd need the regular insmod first. This one is busybox. | 16:29 |
| lardman | ah, good point | 16:29 |
| X-Fade | I've tried it with the pepperpad one, a long time ago.. | 16:29 |
| * alterego wonders how hard it is to port 2.4 modules to 2.6 | 16:30 | |
| TPC | [15:27:21] <alterego> TPC, that wont work in the tablet. | 16:30 |
| TPC | did you just read that in the specs, or have you actually tried it? | 16:30 |
| alterego | TPC, 16G carc | 16:30 |
| wumpus | lardman: yes, I tried, didn't work | 16:30 |
| TPC | I read somewhere someone who said that it works, altoguht nokia doesn't support it | 16:30 |
| wumpus | X-Fade: that might be the reason | 16:30 |
| X-Fade | wumpus: Yeah, it doesn't allow forcing.. | 16:30 |
| alterego | TPC, well. You're welcome to risk losing whatever information you store on there and the card. If you want .. | 16:31 |
| lardman | that means the symbols don't match then | 16:31 |
| wumpus | if the symbols don't match it should give a nice list | 16:31 |
| wumpus | it didn't | 16:31 |
| wumpus | it just failed.. so it's the busybox thing | 16:31 |
| TPC | alterego, I keep backups of everything | 16:31 |
| lardman | ah, well that's good news, perhaps | 16:31 |
| X-Fade | alterego: Probably just a driver issue. No real hardware reason why it shouldn't work. | 16:31 |
| alterego | TPC, what about the cash you waste when it busts the card? | 16:32 |
| Tak | why wouldn't a 16G card work in the tablet? Do they just keep bumping some hard limit every time a bigger card comes out? | 16:32 |
| TPC | why would it do that? | 16:32 |
| alterego | TPC, why wouldn't it? | 16:32 |
| alterego | You don't know :P | 16:32 |
| alterego | Is it worth the risk? | 16:32 |
| wumpus | Tak: maybe a slightly different protocol, for every doubling of the capacity they need to hide an addressing bit somewhere: P | 16:32 |
| X-Fade | alterego: Sure, that is what warranty is for.. | 16:32 |
| alterego | Not really .. | 16:33 |
| alterego | It's not a dud. You'd be sending back something you broke. | 16:33 |
| wumpus | yeah if it doesn't work you can send it back I guess | 16:33 |
| X-Fade | Not work != Should kill.. | 16:33 |
| alterego | That's not worthy of a replacement | 16:33 |
| wumpus | you won't *break* it | 16:33 |
| wumpus | it'll just work or not work | 16:33 |
| wumpus | if it doesn't work it will still perfectly work in some device that does support them | 16:33 |
| Ar-ras | lol | 16:34 |
| Ar-ras | Skype dont wants to be installed on OS 2008# | 16:34 |
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| TPC | Ar-ras, skype for 2008 isn't out yet | 16:34 |
| Tak | I thought the SDHC spec supported up to 16G without hackery; it was just a matter of cramming the storage into the space? | 16:34 |
| Ar-ras | :) I see ;) | 16:34 |
| X-Fade | Ar-ras: You didn't read the message.. | 16:34 |
| Ar-ras | I read the message ;) | 16:34 |
| milhouse | Tak: 32GB is the limit for SDHC | 16:35 |
| Ar-ras | it is just stupid, to put Skype into "startmenu", if it isnt already installed :O | 16:35 |
| wumpus | then again, I don't have a clue how SDHC is implemented, if it allows for 16GB it's worth a try I'd say | 16:35 |
| KevinVerma | TPC, the older skype does not run on os2008 ? | 16:36 |
| Tak | so...I'd think any driver implementation should support 32G without having to rehack it all the damn time | 16:36 |
| alterego | Yah | 16:36 |
| X-Fade | KevinVerma: 2008 is incompatible with 2007. | 16:37 |
| alterego | KevinVerma, 2007 software is not binary conmpatible with 2008 | 16:37 |
| milhouse | Tak: yes, supporting the spec would be the smart thing to do | 16:37 |
| gla55_ | tak: nokia doesn't live by that logic on symbian | 16:37 |
| * alterego looks at driver source. | 16:37 | |
| wumpus | Tak: it could still be a crappy interface chip | 16:37 |
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| milhouse | gla55_ Fortunately Nokia didn't write the SDHC support in Linux (though they may have meddled with it...) | 16:38 |
| gla55_ | nice then | 16:38 |
| unique311 | notice when i run mpalyer in fullscreen mode, and minimize it the the screen looks like its running at a different resolution. | 16:38 |
| wumpus | unique311: pixel doubling | 16:38 |
| unique311 | k | 16:38 |
| unique311 | so its running at the same res | 16:39 |
| alterego | the imgtec drivers hack X11 | 16:39 |
| alterego | Specifically X11 DRM .. | 16:39 |
| unique311 | its a hack? | 16:39 |
| wumpus | they don't just use a loadable X11 module? | 16:39 |
| alterego | Doesn't look like it. | 16:40 |
| Atarii | WTT nokia 770 for 800/810 :( | 16:40 |
| alterego | Looks like they've copied and modified some X11 code .. | 16:40 |
| * Tak remains annoyed | 16:40 | |
| lardman | what is the hack? | 16:40 |
| alterego | Looking now. | 16:40 |
| KevinVerma | X-Fade, alterego good to know in time, thanks | 16:40 |
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| lardman | anyone fancy compiling module-init-tools? | 16:40 |
| KevinVerma | skype is critical for me, i'll have to wait to update | 16:40 |
| unique311 | gizmo | 16:40 |
| unique311 | does the same thing | 16:41 |
| KevinVerma | but my peers are not able to use gizmo | 16:41 |
| KevinVerma | they got a belkin phone | 16:41 |
| lardman | bbiab | 16:41 |
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| KevinVerma | i'll love to know if gizmo folks want to hack it | 16:41 |
| KevinVerma | it runs linux | 16:41 |
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| unique311 | wumpus, was wondering if that pixel doubling could be used by the guys at access | 16:43 |
| unique311 | for the garnet vm | 16:43 |
| alterego | There are loads of changes they made. | 16:43 |
| alterego | Don't really know what any of it does though :) | 16:43 |
| fysa | why wouldn't it work with 32GB? | 16:44 |
| fysa | even if it didn't now, it would just be a firmware update. | 16:45 |
| alterego | You think .. | 16:45 |
| wumpus | unique311: sure, it's just something that you can enable | 16:45 |
| unique311 | k | 16:46 |
| unique311 | remember the devs telling me that the screen res for the emulator was hardcoded in the roms. Can't really do anything to the emulator to get the screen size bigger. | 16:47 |
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| wumpus | yeah you'd need some form of scaling at least | 16:48 |
| unique311 | leave them a note on the feedback page. | 16:49 |
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| alterego | Interesting intel release source code for their graphics drivers and they have a chipset based on the power vr mbx .. | 16:50 |
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| sxpert-work | still waiting for the docs to their wifi stuff | 16:51 |
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| alterego | It'd be nice if Nokia actually told us what is going on with the graphics drivers. | 16:52 |
| alterego | All we've had is "no comment" .. | 16:52 |
| wumpus | yeah, it's usually useless to try to get *any* info out of a company at all | 16:53 |
| alterego | I just don't see why they can't tell us. It's silly :/ | 16:53 |
| alterego | If we're going to have them .. Tell us and we'll stop complaining. If we're not going to have them, tell us and we'll stop complaining. | 16:54 |
| alterego | It's pretty simple .. | 16:54 |
| X-Fade | Maybe it would be a good thing to mention again on -developers? | 16:54 |
| solmumaha | they like to surprise us | 16:55 |
| alterego | "BOO!" | 16:55 |
| alterego | I'd like to here that soon ;) | 16:55 |
| wumpus | but if they say it's not going to be there it might put off people from their product, if they say they are going to have it then we made a promise and we'll compain even more 'when is it done when is it done?' :) | 16:55 |
| alterego | That's rubbish. | 16:56 |
| Tak | When is it done? | 16:56 |
| alterego | It not having 3D doesn't effect peoples purchasing choice now. Why would it in the future if nothing changes? | 16:56 |
| wumpus | I think it's their reasoning, it's usually what companies do before deciding to not say anything at all | 16:56 |
| alterego | Neah, | 16:56 |
| alterego | Nokia are just very quiet. | 16:56 |
| alterego | Everything is kept from us :P | 16:57 |
| Ar-ras | only 3 programms for IT OS 2008?? | 16:57 |
| alterego | It's not even out Ar-ras I'd say that's good :P | 16:57 |
| Ar-ras | lol | 16:57 |
| X-Fade | Ar-ras: Better start porting things to Chinook. We're all waiting for you to do that.. ;) | 16:58 |
| milhouse | one good thing about OS2008 leaking it gives people a few weeks to fine tune their applications to the new platform :) | 16:58 |
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| solmumaha | i'm glad they postponed the release | 16:59 |
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| * lardman reads backlog | 17:07 | |
| lardman | Nokia have hinted that they have worked on the powervr though | 17:08 |
| Ar-ras | powervr? | 17:08 |
| Ar-ras | Whats that? | 17:08 |
| lardman | _Monkey: what's the PowerVR MBX? | 17:08 |
| _Monkey | bugger all, i dunno, lardman | 17:08 |
| Jaffa | lardman: they have? | 17:08 |
| lardman | useless! | 17:08 |
| lardman | Jaffa: yes | 17:08 |
| lardman | it would take quite some digging to find the particular irc conversation though I think | 17:09 |
| alterego | Oh nice, I _can_ detect when head phones are inserted. | 17:09 |
| lardman | ~google powervr | 17:09 |
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| lardman | Ar-ras: http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp | 17:10 |
| lardman | useless bots | 17:10 |
| lardman | ;) | 17:10 |
| Tak | yeah, monitor /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/headphone/state (N800) or /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/headphone/connection_switch (770) | 17:10 |
| lardman | alterego: did you say what the x11 hack was? | 17:10 |
| alterego | lardman, no. There are numerous hacks. | 17:11 |
| rev | ahoy! i just upgraded my N800 to te newer OS 2007... and i can't remember where the hell i found a package i had before. any ideas? it's a game pack, one pkg for maybe 10-20 games, (graphically) very simple games, called something like "tom's game pack" | 17:11 |
| inz | rev, sgtpuzzles | 17:11 |
| alterego | Probably not really essential. I'm sure if Nokia are working on drivers they'll have it all sorted :P | 17:11 |
| lardman | alterego: ok | 17:12 |
| rev | inz: thanks! that was driving me nuts last night when i wanted to play some of that network/pipe game! :D | 17:12 |
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| inz | rev, http://maemo-hackers.org/sgt-puzzles.install | 17:12 |
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| lardman | perhaps we should publicise http://www.imgtec.com/Downloads/DocumentDownloads/Demos/Index.asp and ask why we can't produce graphics like this :) | 17:13 |
| alterego | Or play Quake 3 | 17:13 |
| * alterego chuckles. | 17:13 | |
| rev | inz: rad, i appreciate it! i don't think i have that rep added, i was cornfused as to why i couldn't find it in my avail pkg list, as i thought it was just in the maemo non-free or something. well, mystery solved! | 17:13 |
| guardian | anyone tried OS2008 ? | 17:13 |
| lardman | alterego: don't joke, shame we can't | 17:14 |
| rev | guardian: is it out yet? | 17:14 |
| rev | i just upgraded to the newer OS2007 last night, saw that OS2008 would be released, but it hadn't yet... ha! | 17:14 |
| alterego | Quake 3 wouldn't run on the device PowerVR drivers or not. | 17:14 |
| guardian | some friend's messenging me about a leak, but i did not really read the dev list this week :) | 17:14 |
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| lardman | alterego: why not? | 17:15 |
| lardman | alterego: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/11/11/q3ce_powervr/ | 17:15 |
| alterego | lardman, CPU | 17:15 |
| rev | so, does OS2008 drop opera for mozilla? | 17:15 |
| rev | i'm sure this is all old news, but i'll just go a-readin instead of asking :P | 17:15 |
| lardman | how quick is the axim then? 600mhz? | 17:15 |
| alterego | You really think the little ARM in the tablet is powerfull enough for Q3? | 17:15 |
| rev | yeah, 624 mhz | 17:15 |
| lardman | yeah, I reckon it is | 17:16 |
| rev | the nokia's are pretty underpowered compared to the axim | 17:16 |
| lardman | with dsp for the sound | 17:16 |
| rev | for the apps i've used on both | 17:16 |
| rev | i don't know about the N810, if it's seen some huge boost in CPU MIPS/MHz | 17:16 |
| lardman | would be pretty cool though :) | 17:16 |
| milhouse | rev - different ARM revisions aren't they? The Axim uses the (quite old) Intel/Marvel StrongARM which is a generation before the OMAP2420 | 17:16 |
| Atarii | yea then get ut3 to work :p | 17:17 |
| guardian | but there is no 3d accel on the tablets | 17:17 |
| milhouse | rev - so comparing CPUs on speed alone isn't possible | 17:17 |
| rev | milhouse: they are different revisions, but the Axim's CPU beats out the 770 and N800's quite a bit | 17:17 |
| lardman | SA, sure it's not an XScale? | 17:17 |
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| rev | milhouse: in my case, i'm comparing performance on a specific app | 17:17 |
| milhouse | lardman: one of the two :) | 17:17 |
| lardman | milhouse: old anyway :) | 17:17 |
| milhouse | positively prehistoric! | 17:18 |
| rev | milhouse: i can't remember the numbers, but it is a 2-4x difference in CPU crunchage and a similar amount in 2D gfx (mind you, not what is to be used) | 17:18 |
| rev | it's an XScale, can't remember the # | 17:18 |
| rev | 255 | 17:18 |
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| milhouse | i think the XScale/SA processors have SSE extensions which might help certain applications, whereas the OMAP cpus have power optimisations and can execute general instructions more efficiently than the Intel processors... swings and roundabouts probably | 17:19 |
| lardman | is insmod stand-alone? Or do I need to install all of the new module-init-tools? | 17:19 |
| lardman | milhouse: the omaps also have the sse instructions | 17:19 |
| lardman | they are just an arm11 chip afterall | 17:19 |
| milhouse | lardman: thanks, didn't know that | 17:20 |
| rev | i don't see how the N800 could be faster on a per-MHz basis than a P3, though | 17:20 |
| rev | as the N800 is lacking an FPU | 17:20 |
| lardman | there are also some new instructions, called dsp instructions, do parallel bits and bobs | 17:20 |
| milhouse | I've got a 400Mhz P3 in an IBM laptop | 17:20 |
| lardman | n800 has an fpu | 17:20 |
| rev | and a P3 at 320 MHz didn't play Q3 so well | 17:20 |
| rev | it does? | 17:20 |
| lardman | yes | 17:20 |
| rev | a dsp or an FPU? | 17:20 |
| lardman | vfp | 17:20 |
| lardman | both | 17:20 |
| guardian | are there rumors about a 3d driver for the N800? | 17:21 |
| lardman | dsp is fixed point | 17:21 |
| guardian | or nothing at all ? | 17:21 |
| rev | vfp = virtual? software fp? | 17:21 |
| lardman | vector floating point | 17:21 |
| milhouse | the N800 has an fpu, of sorts doesn't it? i'm sure it supports hardware floating point | 17:21 |
| * rev nods | 17:21 | |
| milhouse | unlike the 770 | 17:21 |
| lardman | yes | 17:21 |
| lardman | guardian: I wasn't here when the conversation started, I think it was just from a moan along the lines of "still no powervr support" | 17:22 |
| milhouse | 400Mhz CISC vs 400Mhz RISC, a tricky (if impossible) comparison :) | 17:22 |
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| guardian | lardman: thx | 17:23 |
| rev | milhouse: for sure, but in the case of the N800 I know that, overall, any of these ARMs do a lot less on a per mhz basis, just doing some simple head math | 17:23 |
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| lardman | even if it shouldn't work, as the N800 is 2/3 the speed of the axim and could offload music playing to the dsp, it would be worth a shot | 17:24 |
| rev | but then again, if Q3ce can do 25 FPS on an axim, which is pretty impressive, perhaps a similar feat could occur on the N800, though without the 3d accel the axim has i'm not sure what kind of FPS you'd get | 17:24 |
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| rev | guardian: when you say 3d drivers do you mean for some unutilized hardware the N800 has? | 17:26 |
| guardian | yes | 17:26 |
| lardman | rev: that's what we're talking about, the powervr mbx | 17:26 |
| guardian | in fact i never search enough for the reason why there is a 3d chip but no driver to use it | 17:27 |
| rev | lardman: on the OMAP? hrmm... interesting! well, then i'd vote: yeah, it could do it! | 17:27 |
| lardman | yep | 17:27 |
| rev | guardian: you see that a lot, lots of CE devices did the same thing before they started utilizing it | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | IVA support would also be nice. | 17:28 |
| guardian | rev: tradition is not a good reason :D | 17:28 |
| lardman | yes, an added bonus | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/4/16/277 Check the mail addies.. | 17:28 |
| lardman | X-Fade: shame there's very little public info about the IVA | 17:28 |
| rev | guardian: they'd use it as a selling point, but then find out that there wasn't even some simple drivers written by the manufacturer to speed up 2d perf, let alone provide a real 3d api | 17:28 |
| lardman | daniels was talking about it the other day though | 17:28 |
| rev | guardian: oh, i agree :) | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Indeed. Can be a really powerful feature.. | 17:29 |
| zoran | what would be power consumption? | 17:29 |
| lardman | that I don't know, would need to test and see | 17:29 |
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| lardman | but presumably optimised hw accel would use less power than doing it for longer on the ARM | 17:29 |
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| lardman | what I'd like is an omap 2420 technical reference manual | 17:31 |
| lardman | strange that the dsp has lots of info available, source code etc., but the IVA next to nothing. It's supposed to be similar | 17:31 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Check recent omap kernels. There seems to be a lot more suport now. | 17:32 |
| kriebel | not to change the subject (I'm really enjoying this), but I need help connecting a bluetooth keyboard to my 770 | 17:32 |
| * rev shakes fist | 17:32 | |
| * Tak waits for rev to roll dice | 17:32 | |
| lardman | X-Fade: yes I saw some bits, but one still needs a "dsp kernel" to run on it afaik | 17:32 |
| Ar-ras | will be IT OS 2008 hacked on N770? | 17:32 |
| * rev sez "poof!" and shows that the dice have ... disappeared! | 17:32 | |
| * Tak head explodes | 17:33 | |
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| lardman | Ar-ras: I think I remember reading somewhere that there would be a hackers edition too | 17:33 |
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| Tak | Ar-ras: yeah, they've been saying there will be | 17:33 |
| kriebel | ...specifically the new Apple keyboard | 17:33 |
| sciboy | Bwahaha, N800 firmware update time! | 17:33 |
| rev | sciboy: for 2008? | 17:34 |
| lardman | the only worry I have with the "update" is battery charging, or are the two batteries the same mAh? | 17:34 |
| sciboy | May the gods of flashing internal memory shine their light upon me and deliver me from the evil of bricking | 17:34 |
| sciboy | rev, Yep. | 17:34 |
| rev | it's a shame that the N810 is still on 400 MHz and the CE machines topped out at 624 MHz (more recent ones 520 MHz)... intel was promising a 1 GHz StrongARM back in 1999 that i was oh-so excited to put into my newton 2100... pah! | 17:34 |
| lardman | how long do their batteries last though? | 17:35 |
| rev | sciboy: legit, or like sharing between friends? | 17:35 |
| zoran | 30 secs? | 17:35 |
| lardman | rev take a look at itt | 17:35 |
| lardman | zoran: :) | 17:35 |
| sciboy | rev, Haven't you been to the forums? | 17:35 |
| Ar-ras | sciboy do you have linux pcß | 17:35 |
| rev | ah, taken from the N810? | 17:35 |
| sciboy | rev, And no it isn't legit. | 17:35 |
| lardman | from the download site | 17:35 |
| sciboy | Ar-ras, Debian. | 17:35 |
| rev | sciboy: no, i'm pretty much disconnected other than asking the questions already answered in here. :) i just finally upgraded to the newer OS2007 to fix my mangled browser, i'll enjoy it for a few days | 17:36 |
| florian | rev: Well... an ARM11 core is something different then an ARM7 :-) | 17:36 |
| florian | The performance of the 400MHz Omap is really good. | 17:36 |
| rev | florian: i know, just a psychological thing | 17:36 |
| florian | rev: well... I can live with facts ;-) | 17:36 |
| Ar-ras | sciboy -> QRY | 17:37 |
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| johnx | WRT, the XScale vs OMAP debate, it seems like the 320MHz CPU in the N800 is much faster than the 416MHz XScale PXA270 | 17:39 |
| rev | yeah, i can see that | 17:39 |
| johnx | I'm not sure but I thought I remember hearing that it had something to do with Intel just lengthening the pipeline to boost the clock speed | 17:40 |
| *** r2d2rogers|afk is now known as r2d2rogers | 17:40 | |
| rev | also, my numbers were a little foofy, went and looked at them, and the 2-4x was for the 220 MHz 770 vs my 624 MHz Axim, not for the newer OMAP in the N800 | 17:40 |
| lardman | there were some nbench figures on the openmoko list | 17:40 |
| lardman | http://hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Application_Processor_Benchmarks | 17:41 |
| lardman | I added the 770 and n800 (@330MHz) | 17:41 |
| johnx | lardman, very cool | 17:42 |
| lardman | vfp kicks ass, big time | 17:42 |
| rev | awesome | 17:42 |
| rev | does it require linking to some lib and use of its api to use it? | 17:43 |
| lardman | the n800 results are with a statically compiled libm using vfp, the normal one doesn't use it | 17:43 |
| * sciboy whistles as he waits for the firmware to download, and checks the progress of his blender render. | 17:43 | |
| rev | not to say that you wouldn't do that for porting q3, but just curious if it uses it by default in the base math libs | 17:43 |
| lardman | rev: e.g. http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/15646?page=last | 17:43 |
| lardman | maemo isn't compiled with it enabled though, hence needing to statically link against a vfp libm | 17:44 |
| lardman | rev: so you need CFLAGS=CXXFLAG=-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp | 17:45 |
| alterego | What's this about people pinching MAC's for N810 preview devices and downloading OS2008? | 17:45 |
| lardman | s/CXXFLAG/CXXFLAGS | 17:45 |
| rev | lardman: ah ok, definately not a hassle then | 17:46 |
| * rev wonders if squeak would benefit from such a treatment, probably not | 17:46 | |
| lardman | no, not a problem at all, just be careful with the other possible flag (-mcpu=arm1136j-s) as qemu can't run this code | 17:47 |
| sciboy | alterego, Forums know all | 17:47 |
| alterego | :/ | 17:48 |
| sciboy | Speaking of which my firmware download just finished! | 17:48 |
| alterego | 2008? | 17:48 |
| _Monkey | 2008 is the year of the open handheld/phone | 17:48 |
| sciboy | Yes | 17:48 |
| florian | yes :) | 17:48 |
| alterego | Do you have an N810? | 17:48 |
| sciboy | Nope | 17:48 |
| alterego | Is it out? | 17:48 |
| Tak | also, if you're going to compile with vfp stuff, be kind to 2007HE users and compile a version without as well ;-) | 17:48 |
| sciboy | Nope | 17:48 |
| zoran | what do you expect from 2008? | 17:49 |
| alterego | O_o | 17:49 |
| sciboy | A slight speed boost and the ability to use the browser. | 17:49 |
| alterego | So you're being a naughty boy .. | 17:49 |
| sciboy | Yep | 17:49 |
| lardman | Tak: good point | 17:49 |
| alterego | Well, I wont ask where you got the MAC from :P | 17:49 |
| sciboy | Who said I needed a MAC? | 17:50 |
| alterego | You don't? | 17:50 |
| sciboy | And most people got it from a photo on engadget of the n810 | 17:50 |
| alterego | Hah | 17:50 |
| alterego | I wonder if Nokia mind .. | 17:50 |
| alterego | If they don't .. I'll have a hunt for it. | 17:51 |
| sciboy | We'll find out soon enough | 17:51 |
| alterego | Hah | 17:51 |
| alterego | When you activate the auto_brick christmas coal? | 17:51 |
| sciboy | It's in the ITT forums, under the OS2008 area | 17:51 |
| alterego | (pun on easter egg) | 17:51 |
| sciboy | There's two threads, one has a rather obvious title | 17:51 |
| alterego | I think I'll wait for the official release. | 17:51 |
| sciboy | May the gods of flashing internal memory shine their light upon me and deliver me from the evil of bricking | 17:51 |
| alterego | The kernel looks like it's built for both devices. | 17:52 |
| zoran | browser issue means something special? | 17:52 |
| alterego | So everything should work. | 17:52 |
| milhouse | hmmm... are nokia having a laugh with the first image in the Images app? :) | 17:52 |
| milhouse | (on OS2008) | 17:52 |
| sciboy | alterego, There's a few device specific issues. | 17:53 |
| teprrr | milhouse, what picture is it? | 17:53 |
| sciboy | alterego, Locking being the most prominent one. | 17:53 |
| alterego | Locking? | 17:53 |
| sciboy | alterego, You can lock, but without the keyboard you can't unlock the device. | 17:53 |
| sciboy | Locking the screen etc. | 17:53 |
| alterego | Ah | 17:53 |
| zoran | buttons? | 17:53 |
| alterego | I kind of _need_ that .. | 17:53 |
| lardman | yes you can | 17:53 |
| sciboy | I'm just going by the reports out already. | 17:54 |
| lardman | not that I've installed it of course, but someone I know just showed me | 17:54 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: Oh, sure ;) | 17:54 |
| alterego | Hah | 17:55 |
| milhouse | all my buttons just stopped working in OS2008 - had to reboot from a ssh session. odd. | 17:55 |
| lardman | O:-) | 17:55 |
| X-Fade | lardman: You can always say that your developer device code, warrants the use of 2008 ;) | 17:55 |
| milhouse | teprrr: it's a dirty great big apple :) | 17:55 |
| lardman | X-Fade: something like that :) | 17:56 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:56 |
| lardman | let's be realistic, if there was a problem they'd have pulled the download I imagine | 17:56 |
| sciboy | Finished flashing! | 17:56 |
| alterego | I still think I'll wait./ | 17:56 |
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| alterego | Though I have got the N810 dmesg output from thoughtfix. | 17:57 |
| sciboy | Oh wow this is sexy. | 17:57 |
| X-Fade | As I said. OS2008 is great, but without apps... | 17:57 |
| alterego | He seems really broken down about the whole affair. | 17:57 |
| lardman | alterego: me too, but not for a mac id, it was an interesting read | 17:57 |
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| X-Fade | I think we need to do a Chinook porting sprint.. | 17:57 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:57 |
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| rev | milhouse: i had that problem a lot with the last OS2007- buttons stopped working randomly all the time, usually when i had locked the screen (with power, enter), finding i couldn't unlock it because no button press was recognized | 17:58 |
| lardman | so, anyone know if insmod can be replaced without needing to change anything else? | 17:59 |
| rev | milhouse: on an N800. think i was the only one with that problem as far as i an tell | 17:59 |
| sciboy | Woah, responsive | 17:59 |
| rev | rad! | 17:59 |
| teprrr | milhouse, doh :) | 18:00 |
| guardian | is clutter used by the tablet ? | 18:00 |
| guardian | OS2008 i mean | 18:00 |
| alterego | Hmm .. I've never had that problem. | 18:00 |
| milhouse | rev: i thought i'd seen someone else mention it... hope it doesn't happen again, pretty serious problem if it does (then again it could be an issue with the N800 not liking this version of OS 2008!) | 18:00 |
| alterego | guardian, clutter has nothing to do with maemo. | 18:00 |
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| guardian | i know it has nothing to do | 18:00 |
| guardian | i wanted to know if some default app used it somehow | 18:00 |
| alterego | It's not part of maemo. | 18:01 |
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| rev | milhouse: yeah, i had to regularly pop my battery out to deal with it, bloody nuisance | 18:01 |
| X-Fade | guardian: It can run on the device, but is not there at the moment. | 18:01 |
| X-Fade | guardian: And software rendering isn't that fast ;) | 18:01 |
| rev | milhouse: but i'm not sure how it would be the N800 not liking 08, maybe it's just not been debugged on it? they did work from the get go, right? | 18:01 |
| lardman | I want to know why the Chinook SDK doens't have Python 2.5? | 18:01 |
| rev | they're switching to smalltalk, i hear! | 18:01 |
| alterego | Strange. | 18:02 |
| _Monkey | well, Strange. is my / filesystem full? | 18:02 |
| alterego | Why does the example unpack the fiasco image? | 18:02 |
| lardman | so as not to flash the bootloader which may be different | 18:02 |
| alterego | Is there some kind of device ID check code or something? | 18:02 |
| alterego | Ah | 18:02 |
| foolish | Not maemo related really, but are there any channels/people related to the pimlico dates application somewhere? | 18:03 |
| alterego | Makes sense. | 18:03 |
| sciboy | Now I'm curious about youtube video performance on 2008 | 18:04 |
| alterego | Yes .. Me too. | 18:05 |
| alterego | How does it run? | 18:05 |
| sciboy | Gimme a sec. | 18:05 |
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| alterego | I meant the whole OS. I don't really care much about youtube :) | 18:06 |
| sciboy | Woah | 18:06 |
| zoran | goes out of device? | 18:06 |
| sciboy | It's playing something that 2007 chocked on completely smoothly. | 18:06 |
| alterego | Nice. | 18:07 |
| alterego | What about the nseries website? :) | 18:07 |
| guardian | is there a memory card format that is better to have than another ? | 18:08 |
| zoran | fs? | 18:10 |
| _Monkey | somebody said fs was the strenght of unix | 18:10 |
| alterego | sciboy, if you say it's worth the upgrade I'll do it now ;) | 18:10 |
| sciboy | alterego, Depends on the apps you use. | 18:11 |
| zoran | could you make a review? | 18:11 |
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| alterego | Not many really .. | 18:11 |
| alterego | I guess I spend more time developing. | 18:11 |
| zoran | I meant sciboy | 18:12 |
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| sciboy | Looks nice, is a little snappier, that boost as far as surfing is concerned is definitely noticable. | 18:13 |
| * sciboy loads up google mail | 18:13 | |
| zoran | could you install xterm and openssh and all necessary stuff? | 18:14 |
| pcspeaker | Just flashed my n800 with os2008 :) | 18:14 |
| alterego | I doubt it zoran | 18:14 |
| pcspeaker | Fantastic! | 18:14 |
| alterego | I'm surrounded by bad people! | 18:14 |
| sciboy | zoran, Looks like xterm is already included. | 18:14 |
| zoran | fine | 18:14 |
| alterego | No shit .. Really? | 18:14 |
| zoran | ssh? | 18:14 |
| sciboy | Yes | 18:14 |
| _Monkey | ssh is a 'secure shell' client/server. It lets you get access to the linux shell on a Tablet. See http://maemo.org/community/wiki/installssh2006/ | 18:15 |
| alterego | That's .. Interesting .. | 18:15 |
| alterego | Cool, and interesting. | 18:15 |
| alterego | What xterm? | 18:15 |
| _Monkey | somebody said xterm was the enhanced version of osso-xterm from maemo-hackers. It adds font and color selection support, URL opening through context menu, and a sidebar with additional keys such as Ctrl+letters. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/osso-xterm-advanced or http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/debs/ for an alternate onscreen keyboard | 18:15 |
| sciboy | It is still a dev release though | 18:15 |
| alterego | Ah | 18:15 |
| sciboy | Not sure, it just pops open, osso_xterm, shows BusyBox v1.6.1 | 18:16 |
| lardman | who owns _Monkey? | 18:16 |
| zoran | perl, python? | 18:16 |
| lardman | Can't he be made to reply to questions starting with some special char? | 18:16 |
| Tak | yeah, some special char like ‽ | 18:16 |
| pupnik | ! ~ etc | 18:16 |
| lardman | ~ is already used I think | 18:17 |
| zoran | or naem of the bot | 18:17 |
| lardman | ~itt | 18:17 |
| sciboy | I haven't found any repositories with python or ssh yet. | 18:17 |
| pupnik | what zoran said | 18:17 |
| lardman | sciboy: tried maemo extras? | 18:17 |
| sciboy | Nope. | 18:17 |
| zoran | naem == name | 18:17 |
| sciboy | I've only had this running for less about 10 minutes. =P | 18:17 |
| zoran | now you cannot hide! | 18:18 |
| pupnik | no info on shipping | 18:18 |
| penguinbait | anyone booting from mmc with 2008 yet? | 18:18 |
| db48x | sciboy: it's already listed in the app catalog, but it's disabled | 18:18 |
| sciboy | Refreshing | 18:19 |
| rev | speaking of MMC, why did nokia have to change SD size/format again?! | 18:19 |
| pupnik | scummvm is already built for 2008 | 18:19 |
| sciboy | I see python2.5 | 18:19 |
| pcspeaker | fb2reader? | 18:19 |
| rev | it wasn't bad moving up to SD, because you can just use an adapter, but down to mini now | 18:19 |
| pupnik | they didn't have space for full size SD | 18:19 |
| sciboy | No fbreader from what I can see. | 18:20 |
| rev | fbreader has an OS 2008 port | 18:20 |
| pupnik | it was not a capricious decisino | 18:20 |
| pcspeaker | I wonder if the CPU is on 400Mhz now... | 18:20 |
| pcspeaker | How can I check? | 18:21 |
| rev | pupnik: how is that? i mean, full size SD isn't big, not the card nor the pins, not like having a CF slot or something. i mean, i don't really care that much, i have mini SD for my phone and GBA flash cart, but uff, now i have a few more 1 GB cards i can't use :P | 18:21 |
| rev | fbreader for OS2008: http://www.fbreader.org/maemo/maemo4.php | 18:21 |
| rev | are there any ebook readers for maemo than fbreader? | 18:22 |
| lardman | pcspeaker: cat /proc/cpuinfo ? | 18:22 |
| zoran | microdrive would make device worth of porting almost everything | 18:22 |
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| pupnik | rev, this is the word from the horses mouth: space constraints. i wasn't there to debate it | 18:22 |
| Khertan | Someone know where i can find libbz2-1.0 for chinook ? | 18:22 |
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| TPC | pcspeaker, /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_fre | 18:23 |
| kriebel | I'd rather have two SD slots than the stupid thumb board | 18:23 |
| TPC | should be a q at the end of the last path | 18:23 |
| sciboy | Sweet got FBReader. =D | 18:23 |
| alterego | How well does google maps run? | 18:23 |
| TPC | pcspeaker, the frequency is dynamic on OS2008 depending on how much work its doing | 18:23 |
| zoran | does dmesg give something? | 18:23 |
| pcspeaker | And the max value is? | 18:24 |
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| penguinbait | Kriebel, then just keep or buy an n800, same os same CPU, no keyboard?? | 18:24 |
| sciboy | Khertan, Check you got maemo extras enabled in the application manager. | 18:24 |
| sciboy | Khertan, It says it's available for me. | 18:24 |
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| Ar-ras | so is there any easteregg in OS 2008? | 18:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody manage to get through a whole map download on OS2008? | 18:25 |
| kriebel | penguinbait, yeah, I could do that. I'm waiting to see if one or the other actually gets sold with WiMAX in my area | 18:25 |
| lardman | Anyone know how the navigation stuff works on OS2008? It done over a 'net connection or on the device itself? | 18:25 |
| TPC | pcspeaker, 165000 266000 330000 400000 are the aviable values | 18:25 |
| TPC | pcspeaker, representing 165mhz 266mhz 330mhz and 400mhz | 18:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Same way as Navicore does it now. | 18:25 |
| elb | pcspeaker: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq | 18:25 |
| Khertan | sciboy > extra is activated .... Strange | 18:25 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: which is how? | 18:25 |
| guardian | does the speed of a memory card depends on the format: SD, MCC, MicroSD ?? (i'm totally noob at that) | 18:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Local, I believe | 18:25 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: I'm wondering what data is contained within the maps | 18:25 |
| lardman | for doing routing ourselves :) | 18:26 |
| zoran | TPC, like powerd? | 18:26 |
| TPC | zoran, something like that | 18:26 |
| zoran | that is cool | 18:26 |
| sciboy | Khertan, Well I ran apt-cache search and it showed libbz2-1.0 | 18:26 |
| TPC | altought I belive it does it in the kernel rather than having a userspace daemon | 18:26 |
| zoran | better option | 18:26 |
| kriebel | guardian, the speed of the card depends more on the specs of the card and the reader, not the type of card; but I hear MMC is a little slower than the newer SD | 18:26 |
| sciboy | Khertan, Only other apps I have installed are Ogg Support, Mauku and FBReader | 18:26 |
| zoran | saves battery | 18:26 |
| elb | I'm not really sure what the obsession I see in here the past few days with CPU speed is | 18:27 |
| elb | everyone says it seems faster, and that's the important thing | 18:27 |
| Khertan | sciboy > can you paste mme your source.list ? | 18:27 |
| pupnik | the year of omap2420 envy is ending soon | 18:27 |
| elb | I wouldn't care if my computer ran at 1Hz if it was fast enough for what I needed it for | 18:27 |
| Ar-ras | elb :D | 18:27 |
| Ar-ras | 1 Hz | 18:27 |
| zoran | keeps the world spin | 18:27 |
| Ar-ras | that would suck | 18:28 |
| sciboy | Khertan, No, don't have the patience to work that out right now. | 18:28 |
| Ar-ras | loading Windows XP in a year | 18:28 |
| zoran | elb needs some real time system | 18:28 |
| zoran | like qnx | 18:28 |
| pcspeaker | 2008 mplayer anyone? | 18:28 |
| TPC | elb, speed isn't the only issue | 18:28 |
| lardman | elb: more is always better, especially when it comes to playing movies | 18:29 |
| TPC | elb, battery life is important as well | 18:29 |
| Tak | nobody uses qnx anymore ;-) | 18:29 |
| elb | lardman: not really | 18:29 |
| lardman | elb: no, but in this case yes | 18:29 |
| elb | TPC: yes, I know that ... I'm saying the obsession in here is stupid, not agreeing with it | 18:29 |
| zoran | Tak, it was intended for embedded | 18:29 |
| X-Fade | pcspeaker: everything without gtk should just work.. | 18:29 |
| Khertan | sciboy > can t find it with apt-cache | 18:29 |
| X-Fade | pcspeaker: 2007 versions I mean. | 18:29 |
| elb | lardman: there are plenty of MPEG decoders which run at ~100MHz (or less) | 18:30 |
| Tak | zoran: even for embedded | 18:30 |
| elb | the question should always be, "is it fast enough?", not "how many MHz is it?" | 18:30 |
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| zoran | tak, some instruments people almost don't see, used in everyday job | 18:30 |
| elb | there is a *lot* of qnx out there | 18:30 |
| jott | even "is it fast enough for what i want to do with it" | 18:31 |
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| elb | it's true that you don't see neutrino everywhere you turn, but neutrino was never qnx's selling point | 18:31 |
| Ar-ras | no not fast enough | 18:31 |
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| zoran | elb, I made a mistake mentioning qnx | 18:31 |
| jott | like do i need a dsp, a fpu, gpu, etc.. | 18:31 |
| Tak | meh, we went from qnx => rtlinux => linux | 18:31 |
| Ar-ras | jott is that a joke??? | 18:32 |
| elb | "we don't use it any more" is a very different claim from "nobody uses it any more" | 18:32 |
| Ar-ras | or pure ironic? | 18:32 |
| jott | Ar-ras: no the truth.. | 18:32 |
| elb | yeah, I'm with jott, here | 18:32 |
| Ar-ras | :O | 18:32 |
| jott | i don't need a gpu on a dedicated crypto solution | 18:33 |
| elb | every MHz you can shave off, and every device you can leave out, is a smaller power footprint | 18:33 |
| Ar-ras | i give you a calculator | 18:33 |
| elb | choose your device capabilities for what you want to use it for | 18:33 |
| Ar-ras | lol elb | 18:33 |
| sciboy | Night everyone. | 18:33 |
| sciboy | Have fun with the hoard of people reporting about 2008 on the N800 | 18:33 |
| Ar-ras | i gave you both a 10 $ Calculator | 18:33 |
| lardman | elb: can you point me to one (MPEG decoder)? | 18:33 |
| pcspeaker | Modern task are cpu-intensive... | 18:33 |
| pcspeaker | Like flash... | 18:34 |
| elb | Ar-ras: if what I want to do is simple math, then sure | 18:34 |
| Tak | heh - how's this: "I don't see anybody using it in new devices anymore" | 18:34 |
| pcspeaker | Or compressed video decoding... | 18:34 |
| Ar-ras | elb what do you want to do with N800? | 18:34 |
| Ar-ras | maybe an old Windows Mobile Device is the right for you? | 18:34 |
| Ar-ras | :D | 18:34 |
| Ar-ras | still has DSP and stuff, but is slow | 18:35 |
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| zoran | Ar-ras, not a windows device could help | 18:35 |
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| elb | Ar-ras: I'm not saying slow is good, I'm saying an obsession with *CPU MHz* is stupid | 18:35 |
| Ar-ras | dont think so | 18:35 |
| zoran | elb, a lot of people means multimedia for n810 | 18:36 |
| jott | elb: that's the point.. especially if there are optional components that perform much better than a generic cpu.. | 18:36 |
| jott | (given a specific task) | 18:36 |
| lardman | I think the point here is that people have used the device at 330mhz and wanted it to be faster doing certain things, that's why the move to 400mhz is good | 18:36 |
| derf | I just want it to boot faster. | 18:36 |
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| X-Fade | derf: huh? | 18:36 |
| pcspeaker | And ARM is more power efficient but very slow comparing to the modern x86... | 18:37 |
| elb | lardman: there are Hitachi SuperH devices which are such | 18:37 |
| elb | lardman: they have hardware assist, of course, but that's the point -- *MHz* is meaningless | 18:37 |
| derf | It takes like over a minute to go from power on to where I can actually click on a menu. | 18:37 |
| milhouse | holy cow... the shared folders idea isn't working too well | 18:37 |
| lardman | elb: but that's a dsp | 18:37 |
| TPC | milhouse, why not? | 18:38 |
| lardman | elb: see my comment above, mhz is a useful metric sometimes | 18:38 |
| elb | the SuperH is a general purpose microprocessor | 18:38 |
| milhouse | i've got a folder with over 200GB and 20,000+ directories - each time the N800 tries to access that share it iterates every directory and file from the beginning. nuts. | 18:38 |
| X-Fade | derf: Why would you ever power it down? | 18:38 |
| lardman | elb: with a dsp | 18:38 |
| derf | Because it doesn't last all day otherwise. | 18:38 |
| elb | lardman: I still believe the comment is incorrect | 18:38 |
| Ar-ras | milhouse where is this option? | 18:38 |
| milhouse | file manager -> Shared folders | 18:38 |
| elb | lardman: it sounds to me like the speed improvement in OS2008 is probably, as much as anything, code and/or optimizer changes | 18:38 |
| zoran | milhouse, maybe the number of subdirectories matters | 18:38 |
| milhouse | it's picked up my NAS, Win XP and Win2K3 machines | 18:39 |
| lardman | elb: we'll agree to differ then :) | 18:39 |
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| elb | lardman: because 330MHz->400MHz is trivial, unles you're *just* on the cusp of being able to do something | 18:39 |
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| TPC | derf, if it doesn't last all day without powering down you should go back to the store and get it fixed | 18:39 |
| TPC | derf, because then its broken | 18:39 |
| lardman | elb: and that's exactly the point with mplayer | 18:39 |
| milhouse | but the NAS is unusable because it takes a couple of hours for the N800 to walk every directory | 18:39 |
| X-Fade | derf: It can be standby for days/weeks? | 18:39 |
| Ar-ras | milhouse dont have that option? | 18:39 |
| TPC | derf, when not used it uses so little power that it could just as well have been off | 18:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | A 20% boost is hardly trivial. | 18:39 |
| derf | That has not been my experience. | 18:40 |
| TPC | derf, standby time is up to two weeks withotu any problems | 18:40 |
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| elb | lardman: sure, there may be a specific operation or two -- but there are zillions of people obsessing about *MHz* in here, even when they have shown themselves that 2008 does or does not fix the problem they were looking for | 18:40 |
| X-Fade | derf: And booting justs _A_ _LOT_ of energy! | 18:40 |
| milhouse | ar-ras - i'm not sure what technology it's using to share the content, UPnP maybe? | 18:40 |
| X-Fade | ehm ... uses.. | 18:40 |
| milhouse | if you've got any folders shared on an XP machine it should list it | 18:40 |
| Ar-ras | on ITT someone wrote UPnP | 18:40 |
| derf | X-Fade: It sure does. | 18:40 |
| zoran | milhouse, maybe some fuse option could help? | 18:40 |
| elb | lardman: people are here saying "oh wowowowowow my youtube plays now!" "how many MHz am I?" | 18:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're just interested to know. | 18:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no harm in it. ;) | 18:40 |
| derf | It _claims_ it will last for 9 or 10 days, but it doesn't. | 18:40 |
| zoran | elb, people buy device for that :) | 18:41 |
| Ar-ras | elb youtube is internet service | 18:41 |
| lardman | elb: comparing different platforms is pointless, but for the same one to be clocked higher one can make more meaningful comparisons | 18:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mine does, derf. :\ | 18:41 |
| Ar-ras | Internet Tablet | 18:41 |
| lopz | re | 18:41 |
| Ar-ras | got the point? | 18:41 |
| elb | zoran: sure, I understand that youtube playing is a great feature -- but MHz are irrelevant | 18:41 |
| elb | either it plays, or it doesn't | 18:41 |
| lardman | elb: I agree about the fact that the software may be different though | 18:41 |
| X-Fade | derf: I think yours is broken ;) | 18:41 |
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| derf | Must be. | 18:41 |
| TPC | elb, the thing is people like talking about things | 18:41 |
| elb | and I *strongly* suspect that the fact that it plays now and did not before is an optimization issue, not a 70MHz processor difference | 18:41 |
| zoran | elb, I use 770 the way you do, but I understand all those folks wanthin films etc | 18:41 |
| X-Fade | derf: Or you have installed software that remains active.. | 18:41 |
| lardman | derf: I find that x-term kills my battery | 18:42 |
| zoran | lardman, ? | 18:42 |
| _Monkey | lardman, is normal that google sat not work? | 18:42 |
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| derf | lardman: How so? | 18:43 |
| lardman | zoran: whenever I leave xterm running my battery life is less than with nothing running | 18:43 |
| zoran | k, it is one more process | 18:43 |
| Ar-ras | milhouse sharing a folder on my pc but not seeing in Filemanager | 18:43 |
| Daniellion | anyone running the hacker os on the 770 | 18:43 |
| Ar-ras | milhouse should i reboot N800 ? | 18:43 |
| lardman | zoran: perhaps, depends if the ram banks are shut down to save power, otherwise it should just go to sleep and it would be the same | 18:43 |
| zoran | writes to swap? | 18:44 |
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| lardman | not enabled | 18:44 |
| zoran | what if you do? | 18:44 |
| Ar-ras | ah now | 18:44 |
| zoran | lardman, does top works on your device? | 18:45 |
| zoran | or something similar | 18:45 |
| lardman | zoran: yes | 18:45 |
| pupnik | the 20% boost can also be looked at like a present to us to use for software-decoding of audio, since ogg isn't on the dsp yet. :P | 18:45 |
| lardman | zoran: but running top will defeat dyntick | 18:45 |
| zoran | is there any sign of memory problem? | 18:45 |
| zoran | k | 18:45 |
| lardman | pupnik: yeah, yeah, I'm starting work again ;) | 18:45 |
| TPC | pupnik, yet? you think it will be? | 18:46 |
| pupnik | Daniellion: i have run it, and some ppl use it exclusively | 18:46 |
| lardman | zoran: I don't know, it's not a huge difference, I've not bothered to track down what it's doing to tell the truth | 18:46 |
| Daniellion | so far everything is working | 18:46 |
| Daniellion | though playing audio like the bbc radio stuff seems to lock the interface | 18:46 |
| zoran | lardman, if works, who cares | 18:46 |
| Daniellion | if i hit the dual key lock/unlock i can go to off line mode and kill the streaming net connection which lets me stop the stream app | 18:47 |
| elb | lardman: xterm is well known to wake idle processors *very* frequently | 18:47 |
| elb | I forget if it's at 10Hz or 100Hz, but it's frequent | 18:47 |
| pupnik | Daniellion: are you using latest version? There were memory corruption issues - get very newest version (like yesterday or something) | 18:47 |
| lardman | elb: really? Okay, not just my imagination then :) | 18:47 |
| elb | lardman: yeah, this is documented by the powertop guys | 18:47 |
| Daniellion | Oh? | 18:47 |
| Daniellion | what were the symptons pup? | 18:48 |
| zoran | elb, just xterm? | 18:48 |
| Khertan | Gtk.glade is missing arg ..... | 18:48 |
| elb | zoran: many applications do so, xterm is one such application | 18:48 |
| Daniellion | i flashed it over the weekend | 18:48 |
| elb | I think there are patches floating around to fix t hat | 18:48 |
| lardman | elb: quite important for a device that produces its good battery life by doing dyntick (and cpufreq too now) | 18:49 |
| * elb passes out the free urxvt | 18:49 | |
| lardman | in .deb form ;) | 18:49 |
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| zoran | elb, for 2006 also? | 18:49 |
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| pupnik | http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/new_os2007_he_for_the_nokia_770_with_mozilla_engine_and_memory_corruption_bugfix.html <<< Daniellion | 18:50 |
| lardman | http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/known.php#xterm | 18:50 |
| elb | zoran: I don't *build* urxvt, I'm just saying, it sucks a lot less than xterm ;-) | 18:50 |
| zoran | k | 18:50 |
| zoran | I have a problems just in xterm on freebsd | 18:51 |
| zoran | some keyboard issues on ssh etc | 18:51 |
| lardman | hmm, might be doable then - wrap xterm in a shell script and add the +sm switch | 18:51 |
| zoran | but just for one type of conenction | 18:51 |
| zoran | lardman, could be too much | 18:51 |
| lardman | how come? | 18:52 |
| zoran | maybe simple, smaller term... | 18:52 |
| pupnik | btw for Desktop PC i found switftfox (faster firefox) and using noscript + adblocker plugins i have stable browser again :) | 18:52 |
| lardman | zoran: this is easier than writing a new maemo wrapper for a different term | 18:52 |
| elb | lardman: or put xterm*sessionMgt: false in your X resource database | 18:52 |
| lardman | elb: that's an idea | 18:53 |
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| elb | maybe XTerm | 18:53 |
| *** alban3 has left #maemo | 18:53 | |
| zoran | lardman, probably correct | 18:53 |
| elb | I forget what xterm uses | 18:53 |
| Daniellion | im gonna get the 810 | 18:53 |
| Ar-ras | will there be a new IT OS 2008 release when N810 comes out? | 18:53 |
| Ar-ras | hihi | 18:53 |
| Daniellion | and selling my 770 to a friend.. ill let him know | 18:53 |
| Ar-ras | every new user of n810 should update *G* | 18:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Get the N800 instead, Daniellion, especially if you don't need the upgraded screen. | 18:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | $212 is a much better price than $470 | 18:54 |
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| Atarii | upgraded screen? | 18:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | transflective | 18:55 |
| Atarii | nice | 18:56 |
| Atarii | i definately want to upgrade to the 810, but the one thing stopping me is the d-pad bein hidden away | 18:56 |
| Atarii | that wud annoy me so much | 18:56 |
| lardman | bring on a keyboard :) | 18:57 |
| penguinbait | I agree Atarii, They should have had 2 dpads | 18:57 |
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| penguinbait | anyone else think 2008os is ugly | 18:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh, themes will fix it soon enough. | 18:57 |
| penguinbait | true | 18:58 |
| lardman | wumpus: I'll see if I can build a proper insmod and see whether the module wants to go this evening | 18:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Changing your background help a lot. ;) | 18:58 |
| Atarii | how many default themes on 2008os are there? 4 like usual? | 18:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2 | 18:58 |
| lardman | see you all later | 18:58 |
| penguinbait | I like the windows look, but the ugly icons have ot go | 18:58 |
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| penguinbait | 2 on my image | 18:58 |
| penguinbait | echo and glasser | 18:58 |
| zoran | penguinbait, pretty too much colors and the default style is not so pleasant to me | 18:58 |
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| penguinbait | both themes stink | 18:59 |
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| zoran | for me it started on n800 | 19:00 |
| zoran | simple 2006 stype looks better | 19:00 |
| zoran | *style | 19:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't know why they reduced the number of brightness levels. | 19:00 |
| X-Fade | Try plankton too... | 19:00 |
| zoran | to not complain | 19:00 |
| penguinbait | thats easily fixed | 19:00 |
| penguinbait | this is also not final version from my understanding | 19:01 |
| alterego | I'm pretty sure it is the final version | 19:01 |
| penguinbait | I installed ssh, but rootme wont let me in | 19:01 |
| penguinbait | what is the root password? | 19:02 |
| _Monkey | the root password is, like, rootme | 19:02 |
| alterego | Probably different passwords .. | 19:02 |
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| penguinbait | not anymore Monkey | 19:02 |
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| X-Fade | penguinbait: It should be rootme.. | 19:02 |
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| penguinbait | hmm, can you verify it | 19:02 |
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| penguinbait | wont let me in | 19:03 |
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| Khertan | It still rootme | 19:03 |
| Khertan | I ve verified | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | I had to enable R&D mode | 19:03 |
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| penguinbait | ah | 19:03 |
| penguinbait | no RD mode enable | 19:04 |
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| K`zan | G'day folks! | 19:04 |
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| zoran | or you could ssh to it | 19:05 |
| TPC | penguinbait, rootme worked for me | 19:06 |
| TPC | when sshing | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | ssh didn't work for me, either. | 19:06 |
| Daniellion | Hmm i liked the LCARS them myself ;) | 19:07 |
| zoran | ssh root@localhost | 19:07 |
| _Monkey | ssh root@localhost is the way I'm using it on n800 | 19:07 |
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| Daniellion | it caught soo much attn | 19:07 |
| penguinbait | I did not enable r/d mode | 19:07 |
| zoran | you could change it later, manualy | 19:07 |
| Daniellion | penguinbait is your kde addon working for the 810? or don't you have one yet? | 19:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | ssh root@localhost (or external) didn't work for me. | 19:08 |
| TPC | penguinbait, just do it the easy way, enable rd mode and do sudo gainroot | 19:08 |
| TPC | :P | 19:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Rhapsody home applet is rather nice | 19:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | They kinda went overboard with the transparency, though. :\ | 19:09 |
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| alterego | Crap, I just realised my device isn't going to dual boot anymore O_O | 19:09 |
| penguinbait | No 810 yet, but KDE3.5.8 is compiled and ready to go | 19:09 |
| penguinbait | testing begins NOW!! | 19:09 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles, I love the transparency :P | 19:09 |
| alterego | You and your KDcrap | 19:10 |
| penguinbait | what xterm are you using? | 19:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pft | 19:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Aqua, baby! | 19:10 |
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| penguinbait | what xterm repository are you using | 19:10 |
| Atarii | penguinbait wats kde like on the 770? | 19:10 |
| alterego | That's nice. The root password is in /etc/passwd | 19:11 |
| alterego | Though it's not plain text. | 19:11 |
| penguinbait | I compile KDE after getting 800. my 770 never made it back from Nokia repair | 19:11 |
| alterego | penguinbait, they stole your 770?! | 19:11 |
| Atarii | ah :( any reports from 770 users? | 19:11 |
| penguinbait | They paid me for it | 19:11 |
| alterego | They paid you money for your 770? Weird. | 19:11 |
| Atarii | wish they wud buy mine, i want to get rid of it | 19:12 |
| alterego | How much? Was it cost price? | 19:12 |
| penguinbait | It runs OK with swap enabled, I want to see how it runs on 2008os | 19:12 |
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| zoran | Atarii, kde on 770? I have 770, but never thouhgt about | 19:12 |
| penguinbait | They paid me 200$ but it was when the n80 was just out, so I took the money and upgraded | 19:12 |
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| alterego | Right | 19:12 |
| penguinbait | I had a 6682 I paid 300$ for from letstalk.com, Nokia paid me 325$ for it after being at repair over 30 days | 19:13 |
| Daniellion | pb is there instr for installing without doing the dual boot memory card thing.. | 19:13 |
| Daniellion | jnettlet_ cool your in MA too? | 19:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why does everybody insist on calling a MAC address a "serial number"? | 19:13 |
| TPC | GeneralAntilles, because nokia calls it that | 19:13 |
| jnettlet_ | Daniellion: yeah | 19:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, right. | 19:13 |
| jnettlet_ | Cambridge | 19:13 |
| _Monkey | Cambridge is a weird outer london IT haven too | 19:13 |
| Atarii | lol | 19:13 |
| Daniellion | im in cambridge too! | 19:13 |
| Daniellion | cool | 19:13 |
| alterego | Me too! | 19:13 |
| Atarii | im near | 19:13 |
| alterego | I live in Bar Hill :) | 19:14 |
| Daniellion | were talking cambridge MA us | 19:14 |
| Daniellion | not cambridge Uk | 19:14 |
| alterego | Pfft. | 19:14 |
| Atarii | my gf used to live there alterego | 19:14 |
| Atarii | im talkin uk :p | 19:14 |
| alterego | Oh, that Cambridge .. | 19:14 |
| TPC | you all live close to each other? get together, have a OS2008 release party, get a few beers | 19:14 |
| TPC | :P | 19:14 |
| Daniellion | yay cool | 19:14 |
| alterego | Atarii, name? I might know her ;) | 19:14 |
| penguinbait | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631&highlight=simplified | 19:14 |
| Daniellion | im prolly ordering my 810 soon | 19:14 |
| jnettlet_ | I don't have anything that runs os2008. I was hoping to get a discount for the n810 but didn't | 19:14 |
| penguinbait | I had to find it, Daniellion | 19:15 |
| jnettlet_ | So it is just me and my trusty n770 | 19:15 |
| Daniellion | I found a way to make the mostly white os looks 1/2 way decent | 19:15 |
| penguinbait | there you go, I have not used them myself though | 19:15 |
| Atarii | lol she only lived there when she was young | 19:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no such thing as a "n770". <_< | 19:15 |
| alterego | Atarii, We probably went to school together | 19:15 |
| Atarii | jnettlet_ same here, lets hav a 2008he release party, if it happens | 19:15 |
| penguinbait | N770 n770 | 19:15 |
| Daniellion | erf... do you ahve to do it with an ext card? | 19:15 |
| jnettlet_ | nokia 770 | 19:16 |
| _Monkey | nokia 770 is the best plataform for homebrew this day | 19:16 |
| jnettlet_ | picky picky | 19:16 |
| penguinbait | must we get picky | 19:16 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 19:16 |
| * alterego wonders how he can take a screen shot in OS2008 | 19:16 | |
| jnettlet_ | really the speed doesn't bother me I just wish I had the additional memory | 19:16 |
| zoran | 770 is the proof of the concept, elb had in minds | 19:16 |
| Daniellion | btw jnettlet_ the 2007 he works fine so far on my 770 | 19:17 |
| Daniellion | just the audio glitch | 19:17 |
| penguinbait | I bought 770 as soon as I heard they existed | 19:17 |
| jnettlet_ | Daniellion: yeah I have had it on mine for a long time now. Even back when it was a little less polished | 19:17 |
| penguinbait | I wanted a zaurus for a long time, but kept waiting | 19:17 |
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| penguinbait | mstly because of cost | 19:17 |
| zoran | it's gone now | 19:17 |
| alterego | I quite wanted a Zaurus when the first came out. | 19:18 |
| alterego | I'm glad I never bothered. | 19:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, so did I, penguinbait. | 19:18 |
| kulve | alterego: with my screen grabber :) | 19:18 |
| jnettlet_ | it is really better I didn't get a n810 discount. I had a bunch of projects planned for it and now I can ignore them and do more important work. | 19:18 |
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| alterego | kulve, ? | 19:19 |
| _Monkey | kulve, are you serious? | 19:19 |
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| alterego | kulve, link? | 19:19 |
| timeless | there's a screen shot tools | 19:19 |
| kulve | http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2007/01/17/maemo-screen-grabber/ | 19:19 |
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| alterego | timeless, ? | 19:19 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that timeless, is there a way for the user to choose between rdf and atom feeds? | 19:19 |
| timeless | kulve: hey, where are you? | 19:20 |
| alterego | _Monkey forget timeless | 19:20 |
| _Monkey | alterego: I forgot timeless | 19:20 |
| kulve | timeless: home | 19:20 |
| alterego | _Monkey timeless is <reply> | 19:20 |
| _Monkey | OK, alterego. | 19:20 |
| zoran | timeless, domain problem was solved! | 19:20 |
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| timeless | zoran: which? | 19:20 |
| alterego | I'm going to write a #maemo log analyser :) | 19:20 |
| zoran | repo unable to get files | 19:20 |
| timeless | i'm, on a train to turku sataa | 19:20 |
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| timeless | cause? | 19:21 |
| alterego | I think a lot of information in this channel should be put out there for people. | 19:21 |
| zoran | some tweak on maemo server for domains that do not have devices for sale | 19:21 |
| X-Fade | alterego: It's called google ;) | 19:21 |
| alterego | X-Fade, sure. But correlating it all into a nice maemo specific site would be cool. | 19:22 |
| X-Fade | It is funny to see how often #maemo shows up in google searches, because of the log.. | 19:22 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 19:22 |
| alterego | Yeah. It's quite useful sometimes :P | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Often as not it's of ME asking the question here. :\ | 19:23 |
| _berto_ | is there a log of this channel available via web ? | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | !topic | 19:23 |
| alterego | kulve, your blog renders funny on IT :/ | 19:23 |
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| zoran | mgedmin has it | 19:23 |
| kulve | alterego: it shouldn't (except for the menu on left..) | 19:24 |
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| _berto_ | oh, thx | 19:24 |
| timeless | kulve, so where are you? I'm traveling@ across finlan :) | 19:24 |
| alterego | Yes, that's what I'm refering to .. | 19:24 |
| kulve | timeless: Like I said: at home :) | 19:24 |
| penguinbait | anyone running 2008os, where did you get xterm from, no matter what I add it wont show up in my app manager | 19:24 |
| alterego | penguinbait, it's in utilities. | 19:25 |
| X-Fade | penguinbait: It is in your menu already :) | 19:25 |
| kulve | alterego: at least opera in it2007os shows it correctly | 19:25 |
| zoran | extras? | 19:25 |
| _Monkey | extras is http://repository.maemo.org/extras (distribution: "bora" for n800, "gregale" for n770) (components="free non-free") | 19:25 |
| X-Fade | penguinbait: No need to install it, it is already there. | 19:25 |
| alterego | kulve, and how long is that going to be useful for :P | 19:25 |
| penguinbait | ah scroll down | 19:25 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 19:25 |
| alterego | I've not used Opera for ages .. | 19:25 |
| * timeless was looking for something more gps compatible :) | 19:25 | |
| kulve | alterego: I think the mozilla renders it correct too.. | 19:25 |
| alterego | kulve, I'm looking at it and I told you it's funny. | 19:25 |
| kulve | alterego: maybe it's just designed so? :) | 19:26 |
| alterego | The menu is being placed ontop of the text. | 19:26 |
| alterego | So you can't read it clearly. | 19:26 |
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| kulve | alterego: hmm.. that might happen if the screen is too wide.. | 19:26 |
| kulve | alterego: it doensn't behave well on too small screens, I admit that.. | 19:27 |
| alterego | Well then :P | 19:27 |
| kulve | but on my n800, it's ok | 19:27 |
| alterego | Your program doesn't work on OS2008 | 19:27 |
| kulve | I'll fix it, if the n810 shows it wrong :) | 19:27 |
| alterego | kulve, it does. | 19:27 |
| alterego | Your site is displayed funny in OS2008 | 19:27 |
| kulve | alterego: it should.. Did you click the chinook version? | 19:27 |
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| alterego | It installed fine. It just doesn't work. | 19:28 |
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| kulve | it shouldn't show anything, but you it should take a screenshot after 5secs and save it to MyDocs/Images | 19:28 |
| kulve | screenshot-something.png | 19:28 |
| alterego | That's silly. | 19:28 |
| alterego | You should get it to display a hildon note. | 19:28 |
| kulve | then uninstall it :) | 19:28 |
| alterego | Any indication of it being successfull would be a vast improvement :P | 19:29 |
| kulve | it uses dbus-send to show a banner, but it seems that the dbus api for that has changed in os2008 | 19:29 |
| timeless | heh | 19:29 |
| alterego | You could always do it the proper way .. | 19:29 |
| kulve | alterego: it's basicly a 5 line shell scripta ;) | 19:29 |
| alterego | Using the wrapper .. | 19:29 |
| timeless | yay api breaks | 19:29 |
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| * timeless visits salo.fi.. | 19:30 | |
| kulve | alterego: it has work well enough for me, show I haven't had the need to change it.. | 19:30 |
| kulve | bbl | 19:30 |
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| alterego | kulve, it's not working in OS2008 :P | 19:30 |
| Daniellion | www.unifursalstudios.com/n770.png | 19:31 |
| L0cutus | wow | 19:31 |
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| L0cutus | fine | 19:31 |
| L0cutus | :) | 19:31 |
| Daniellion | i have it working in 2007 no problem | 19:31 |
| Daniellion | just used it to take that | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm really digging OS2008 MicroB. D-pad scrolling rocks. :D | 19:32 |
| Tak | isn't there a hildon screenshot tool as well? | 19:32 |
| L0cutus | GeneralAntilles: have you a real n810 ? | 19:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Pft . . . no. | 19:33 |
| L0cutus | are you using the OS2008 for n800 on this guide: http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html?tag=head | 19:34 |
| L0cutus | ? | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, yes, OS2008 on the N800, but I flashed before that guide was posted. ;) | 19:34 |
| L0cutus | hehehe | 19:35 |
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| penguinbait | what guide? | 19:35 |
| _Monkey | it has been said that guide is probably at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot/infobot_guide.html | 19:35 |
| L0cutus | so is this quite 'secure' to do ? | 19:35 |
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| mmiller | Does anyone know what the time frame is for the final release? | 19:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Don't know what you mean by "secure", but it works just fine for me. | 19:36 |
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| timeless | the people who have an idea can't say | 19:37 |
| timeless | and when they can say, it'll be on planet | 19:37 |
| penguinbait | and the people without a clue will tell you everyday :) | 19:37 |
| bill20r3 | is there a good changelog anywhere? | 19:37 |
| timeless | fwiw there are some fairly painful bugs that will be fixed in the first service release, some are much more relevant to the n800 ... | 19:38 |
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| Tak | first service release meaning after the official release? | 19:39 |
| timeless | bill: the only good changelog i know of is for browser, and i wrote it. But you don't have to take my word for it | 19:39 |
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| bill20r3 | heh, I was thinking more of what's coming in os2008 on the n800 | 19:40 |
| timeless | i can,t speak for time tables/release schedules, but personally, i have a bunch of n800s and i wouldn't flash the initial n810 release on them. I certainly could, i could even flash proper equivalent n80 images. | 19:41 |
| alterego | OS2008 is nice. | 19:41 |
| bill20r3 | hand it over mister. | 19:41 |
| bill20r3 | :-) | 19:41 |
| TPC | timeless, not permanently, but its always fun to do it temporarily to try it out, see whats new | 19:41 |
| alterego | If you want to install it just do it .. | 19:41 |
| alterego | Wow .. They've even made it hide passwords in the terminal O_O | 19:42 |
| timeless | ik think that thoughtfix and others probably do a fairly good job covering new... | 19:42 |
| * Tak nods @ timeless | 19:43 | |
| alterego | timeless, why don't you then? Lack of applications? | 19:43 |
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| L0cutus | someone know if this mail "nokia.developer@nokia.nfusion.com" comes from nokia ? | 19:43 |
| timeless | alterego: careful, password hiding is the bug i have in mind (it's in bugs.maemo, so you an read for youself..) | 19:43 |
| alterego | Number? | 19:43 |
| _Monkey | Number is meaningless because most of them are duplicates or don't belong in browser | 19:43 |
| alterego | _Monkey forget Number | 19:44 |
| _Monkey | alterego: I forgot number | 19:44 |
| alterego | _Monkey Number is <reply> | 19:44 |
| _Monkey | OK, alterego. | 19:44 |
| alterego | Dumb ass .. | 19:44 |
| timeless | bugs filed last friday in systemsoftware/VKB | 19:44 |
| alterego | Okay | 19:44 |
| * timeless doesn't memorize numbers | 19:44 | |
| alterego | Well, I'm not too fussed. I'm just impressed the VKB hid my password in the terminal :) | 19:45 |
| Daniellion | Speaking of apps.. anyone here use pidgin? | 19:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | waste of time and effort. | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jabber is much nicer. ;) | 19:46 |
| timeless | fwiw, iirc we still botch passwords at times in microb... | 19:46 |
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| TPC | ssh passwords are auto-completed as well if you use ssh from xterm | 19:46 |
| timeless | daniellion: someone sometimes here seems to maintain at least a port of it | 19:46 |
| Daniellion | im frustrated that i cant find anyone to prog an option to turn off groups.. like adium can or trillian.. so all i see is an alpha list of names.. i hate scrolling though on smaller screens | 19:46 |
| mmiller | Has anyone testing the bluetooth hands free device with OS2008? I think that was supposed to work in this build. | 19:46 |
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| timeless | mmillr: something specific? | 19:47 |
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| |R | Daniellion : i do on 2007/n800 | 19:47 |
| Daniellion | suposedly agile moble has out a java version | 19:47 |
| alterego | Daniellion, that's more of an upstream request. | 19:47 |
| timeless | i remember pairing devices as far back as 2006 | 19:47 |
| Daniellion | I tried putting a ticket in | 19:47 |
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| Daniellion | someone else already did they killed mine | 19:48 |
| mmiller | timeless: Being able to use a hands free head set with OS2008. | 19:48 |
| mmiller | timeless: Like you would with a cell phone. | 19:48 |
| |R | i hope it does | 19:48 |
| alterego | Cool, it comes with USB ethernet support. | 19:48 |
| Daniellion | i lvoe my version 2 LG chocolate as a evdo modem | 19:48 |
| timeless | my n810s are on a bus to turku | 19:48 |
| timeless | my n800s are at work | 19:49 |
| timeless | my hands free is at home | 19:49 |
| timeless | and i'm on a train all alone :( | 19:49 |
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| TPC | timeless, at least you seem to have IRC, always something :P | 19:49 |
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| Daniellion | yeah xchat works | 19:50 |
| timeless | irc, and gps(bt) | 19:50 |
| Daniellion | cant find were to put the server password in anymore | 19:50 |
| Daniellion | thought there were 2 floating around one version resized the ther was less pollished | 19:50 |
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| Daniellion | some dialogues are off screen | 19:50 |
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| Tak | yeah, there are two | 19:51 |
| Daniellion | Hmm maybe i put the wrong one in then | 19:51 |
| Tak | https://downloads.maemo.org/product/OS2007/maemo-xchat is the more polished one | 19:51 |
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| Tak | timeless: I would throw myself under the train at that point | 19:52 |
| alterego | Hmm .. I can't mount ext2 :/ | 19:52 |
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| timeless | tak: my n81 8gb has a lot of podcasted stuff i snarffed earlier | 19:53 |
| penguinbait | insmod ext2 and mbcache | 19:53 |
| Tak | ah, that's all right, anyway | 19:53 |
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| alterego | mbcache isn't on the device. | 19:54 |
| penguinbait | insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ext2.ko | 19:54 |
| alterego | Oh, yes it is :) | 19:54 |
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| penguinbait | hehe | 19:54 |
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| timeless | unfortunately, even this bt gps seems to be flaky.. All it has to do is keep its positon on a railway line. But no, it insists on jmping around the line | 19:54 |
| TPC | timeless, probably one of the cheaper gps chipsets | 19:55 |
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| derf | You also only generally get returns from satellites on one side of the car. | 19:55 |
| TPC | the one I have with SiRF III is ok when inside a viechle, especially if the device is by the window | 19:55 |
| derf | Or lose them entirely in stations. | 19:55 |
| gla55_ | i had one sirfIII bt gps dongle that really sucked due to having really shitty software.. | 19:55 |
| timeless | afaik it's better than my other inaccessible options | 19:56 |
| gla55_ | you had to reboot it to make a new connection to it and shit | 19:56 |
| gla55_ | also it really sucked in finding sats | 19:56 |
| timeless | yeah, the device is in th | 19:56 |
| gla55_ | so just that it's a good chip doesn't mean that it's good | 19:56 |
| TPC | GPS just isn't that accurate | 19:56 |
| TPC | the error rate for GPS is minimum 5 meters | 19:56 |
| timeless | err, yeah, the device is on a windowsill of this train car | 19:57 |
| TPC | most of the time more | 19:57 |
| TPC | you can get it down to 2 if using WAAS or EGNOS as well | 19:57 |
| TPC | but I'm so far north that EGNOS doesn't cover this area :( | 19:57 |
| b0unc3 | are the kernel sources of ITOS2008 available ? | 19:57 |
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| derf | 3 meters is the number I'd always heard. | 19:57 |
| timeless | sill is on the inner ttrack side (i.e., if outside it'd be between tracks) | 19:58 |
| TPC | derf, under optimal conditions maybe, but the conditions are never optimal | 19:58 |
| timeless | and i'm pretty sure my map wouldn't show 5m | 19:58 |
| timeless | seems like the map is 1000yd wide. Standar phone screen | 19:59 |
| Daniellion | damit.. maemo isn't letting me in to get xchat grrrrrr | 20:00 |
| mmiller | Did anyone check out the palm VM | 20:00 |
| bill20r3 | I was just looking at the faq, but I didn't care to give them my info to download it. | 20:00 |
| suihkulokki | timeless: well, when you are in a train you rarely need gps to know where you are going :P | 20:01 |
| fysa | most bora apps still work on OS2008? | 20:01 |
| bill20r3 | I think I'll wait for it to come out of beta. | 20:01 |
| alterego | fysa, of course not | 20:01 |
| alterego | None of them do .. | 20:01 |
| timeless | it's a LD-4" (nokia) | 20:01 |
| fysa | ah | 20:01 |
| timeless | err 4" | 20:01 |
| timeless | err 4w | 20:01 |
| timeless | suihkulokki: but i want to know where i am | 20:02 |
| kaltsi | b0unc3 yes the kernel sources are availabel | 20:02 |
| suihkulokki | on a train. to turku. | 20:02 |
| b0unc3 | kaltsi: where ? | 20:02 |
| kaltsi | b0unc3 in the chinook sdk repository apt-get source rx-34-kernel | 20:02 |
| timeless | but more importantly, i'm testing the gps accuracy. People keep giving exxcuses about using gps on foot | 20:02 |
| fysa | I just care about X-Chat :P | 20:02 |
| fysa | but boy is maemo's site slow now | 20:03 |
| Tak | my foot's not big enough for gps to matter much | 20:03 |
| timeless | in case people are curious, i'm using an e61i w/ putty to vpn/scrreen/ssh/screen/epic. But | 20:03 |
| suihkulokki | the problem for gps is that the train is metallic tube. even the windows have metallic wiring inside them. | 20:04 |
| timeless | but. Putty is giving me a white input box w/ white text, so i litterally can't see what i'm typing | 20:04 |
| gla55_ | you can get a gps fix from an airplane tho | 20:04 |
| alterego | No libgcrypt of libgnutls | 20:04 |
| gla55_ | even with n95's shitty gps | 20:04 |
| alterego | Pidgin doesn't install right :/ | 20:04 |
| Daniellion | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/xchat/ | 20:04 |
| Daniellion | is this the untweeked one? | 20:05 |
| fysa | X-Chat + bitlbee is better than pidgin. :) | 20:05 |
| TPC | timeless, wait until 2011 when gallileo becomes aviable | 20:05 |
| TPC | then devices will come out that use both GPS and gallileo | 20:05 |
| TPC | with very nice accuracy | 20:05 |
| kaltsi | b0unc3 oops it's not there :) | 20:05 |
| alterego | I use MSN | 20:05 |
| alterego | And XChat is crap on the N800 | 20:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Xchat works great | 20:06 |
| fysa | X-Chat with Tree view. | 20:06 |
| fysa | perfect. | 20:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just use Skyhuser's port. | 20:06 |
| alterego | Not on the N800 | 20:06 |
| fysa | the top zoom buttons flip tabs | 20:06 |
| fysa | i'm using it right now. | 20:06 |
| alterego | Unless you have an external KB .. | 20:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Works fine for me. :\ | 20:06 |
| Daniellion | link? | 20:06 |
| TPC | you're probably better off running irssi on a server somewhere, and sshing in | 20:06 |
| fysa | and bitlbee lets you access MSN/AIM/Yahoo via IRC | 20:06 |
| fysa | the key is ZNC. | 20:06 |
| Daniellion | damn thing won't let me fracking log in | 20:07 |
| Daniellion | grr | 20:07 |
| kaltsi | b0unc3 sorry I assumed that the package would contain the sources but it doesn't.. my bad | 20:07 |
| fysa | ZNC to bitlbee and all of your IRC servers. Then you can run multiple clients simultaneously that share the same exact username/session on everything. If someone IM's me, it shows up on my N800, HTPC/XBMC, laptop, desktop and kitchen. | 20:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who is going to think up a cool use for the double-click option in mce.ini? | 20:07 |
| timeless | sui: anyway, i should be at the port statioon in 15min | 20:08 |
| fysa | all of your IM contacts show up in a private #bitlbee channel | 20:08 |
| timeless | general: eh? | 20:08 |
| alterego | God, Pidgin is uninstallable on OS2008 | 20:08 |
| fysa | shared session IRC without using screen and irssi. | 20:08 |
| * Tak agree @ xchat + bitlbee | 20:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a new entry in mce.ini for a double-click on the powerkey. | 20:09 |
| fysa | http://www.bitlbee.org/main.php/servers.html | 20:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jabber transports with the built-in client is the way to do it. | 20:10 |
| b0unc3 | kaltsi: np | 20:10 |
| fysa | Jabber would be nice too, but not all IM protocols support multiple simultaneous logins. | 20:10 |
| Atarii | GeneralAntilles every1 was offline all the time when i tried that | 20:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Gotta find a better server, then. | 20:10 |
| fysa | what? | 20:10 |
| fysa | no. I mean.. | 20:11 |
| fysa | i.e., MSN. | 20:11 |
| fysa | It logs you out if you login elsewhere. | 20:11 |
| Tak | Daniellion: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/install/xchat.install | 20:11 |
| TPC | fysa, bitlbee is indeed nice | 20:11 |
| TPC | but whats wrong with using it in screen+irssi? | 20:11 |
| fysa | So if I'm sitting at my desk and need to walk somewhere, I have to break the conversation and start it with a different account. | 20:11 |
| fysa | nothing :) | 20:11 |
| fysa | I was using screen+weechat for a while. | 20:12 |
| alterego | There should really be MSN and yahoo! support in the Chat app. | 20:12 |
| fysa | but then noticed that X-Chat lets you put the tabs as a list ont he side.. | 20:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and AIM! | 20:12 |
| fysa | and you can get them big enough to be easily thumbable | 20:12 |
| alterego | Yeah | 20:12 |
| TPC | fysa, might work for you, but wouldn't be practical when you're in 30+ channels :P | 20:12 |
| TPC | + pm windows | 20:12 |
| fysa | yeah, I'm usually in 12-20 at most with half being IM conversations. | 20:13 |
| fysa | I only IRC to talk about IRC. ;) | 20:13 |
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| fysa | my latest home theather/life integration 'tweak' last night was setting up nzbIRC. | 20:14 |
| fysa | to work with bitlbee.. | 20:14 |
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| fysa | so the family can IM this bot to do usenet searches/queue downloads | 20:15 |
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| TPC | I've been thinking about making a bot that monitors various websites and other online resources | 20:15 |
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| TPC | and IMs me when interesting things happen | 20:15 |
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| fysa | so I "!autotv add Curb Your Enthusiasm" | 20:15 |
| TPC | so I could get any interesting info directly on my IT | 20:16 |
| fysa | and it auto-downloads every new CYE episode.. ;) | 20:16 |
| TPC | or maybe puts them all in a RSS feed, that would be easier | 20:16 |
| Atarii | TPC reseach yahoo pipes | 20:16 |
| TPC | Atarii, nah, I would use jabber | 20:16 |
| TPC | there are problably good perl modules for easy interacting with jabber | 20:16 |
| fysa | even if not, there are a ton for IRC and bitlbee is simple to get going. | 20:17 |
| Atarii | ok, i just knew that yahoo pipes can do that, as ive been workin with it recently, well the rss bit anyways | 20:17 |
| TPC | indeed, I have made several IRC bots in my days, and even an IRC client once | 20:17 |
| fysa | I don't know what the popular bots now are, but you could run an eggdrop(?) with RSS/google/IMDB/weather plugins and stick it on Jabber via bitl. | 20:17 |
| TPC | whats the fun with that? much more fun making your own :P | 20:18 |
| timeless | ah what fun, my train arrives 8 28pm. the ferry leaves 8 30pm | 20:18 |
| timeless | there's a distance of 360yds plus stairs | 20:18 |
| Atarii | use speedhacks | 20:19 |
| fysa | the fun is writing plugins that do interesting things with information, not writing bot basics ;) | 20:19 |
| TPC | fysa, but the bot basics doesn't take many minutes to make | 20:19 |
| fysa | I suppose. I prefer 0. | 20:19 |
| fysa | too many things on my todo lists to waste time on that.. | 20:20 |
| TPC | I could probably make a hello world bot in under 3 minutes | 20:20 |
| TPC | and then building on that is easy | 20:20 |
| fysa | ok, do it :P | 20:20 |
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| fysa | but it sounds pretty boring. | 20:21 |
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| fysa | I've already found something much more exciting. ;) | 20:22 |
| fysa | http://www.chatbothub.com/ | 20:22 |
| fysa | http://www.pandorabots.com/botmaster/en/home | 20:23 |
| fysa | heh | 20:23 |
| fysa | I don't know. 10 years ago I would have been excited at making a simple bot.. but life is too busy now and if I'm going to spend time creating something, it has to be useful and ultimately save me more time/effort than I put into it. | 20:24 |
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| TPC | fysa, I wouldn't be making it from scratch of course, I would be using reusable perl modules | 20:25 |
| TPC | like POE::Component::IRC | 20:25 |
| TPC | I'm gonna go buy a burger, back later | 20:26 |
| fysa | mm | 20:26 |
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| Daniellion | yay the shyhusker one was the one i had before | 20:30 |
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| * Tak using xchat-ruby to do botlike things | 20:31 | |
| alterego | You and your Ruby | 20:34 |
| alterego | You're getting worse than me. | 20:34 |
| * alterego hides his ruby source porn magazine. | 20:34 | |
| * Tak plots to steal alterego's magazine | 20:35 | |
| alterego | NO! | 20:35 |
| alterego | I mean .. What magazine? | 20:35 |
| Tak | hey - I was using that plugin before I ever installed ruby on the device | 20:35 |
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| alterego | :) | 20:37 |
| alterego | Uh oh .. | 20:37 |
| qos | hey guys ... i am trying to compile kryptpad for chinook. but ./configure just creates a makefile which does nothing | 20:38 |
| alterego | My charger cable is a bit dodgy me thinks .. | 20:38 |
| L0cutus | alterego: does maemo-ruby work on new os2008? | 20:39 |
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| qos | L0cutus, i wrote an email to the author of the port but didn't get an answer yet | 20:40 |
| qos | but i am sure it will even if you have to wait 2 weeks ... | 20:41 |
| lopz | brb | 20:42 |
| alterego | qos, I'm right here ;) | 20:42 |
| L0cutus | lol | 20:42 |
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| alterego | L0cutus, some of it does. | 20:42 |
| alterego | Some of it doesn't. | 20:42 |
| pupnik | do you run 'make' after that qos? ;) | 20:42 |
| qos | alterego, so... where is my mail? :) | 20:42 |
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| alterego | qos, lost? | 20:42 |
| qos | pupnik, sure | 20:42 |
| alterego | :) | 20:42 |
| alterego | I'm not sure. I'll check. | 20:42 |
| alterego | When did you send it? | 20:43 |
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| qos | ohh, there is an error after during ./configure ... look here: http://pastebin.ca/773691 | 20:43 |
| L0cutus | alterego: can you re-give me your website to download it ? | 20:43 |
| alterego | maemo.rubyx.co.uk | 20:44 |
| alterego | I've ported the interpreter. But not the hildon, osso conic ... extensions. | 20:44 |
| alterego | I had some issues getting them to compile in scratchbox. | 20:45 |
| alterego | But I'm working on it :P | 20:45 |
| alterego | The next release will also have desktop plugins :) | 20:45 |
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| L0cutus | great :) | 20:46 |
| qos | alterego, hmm... i was very tired when i sent it. i hope i hit the send button ;) | 20:46 |
| alterego | :) | 20:46 |
| alterego | qos, when did you send it? | 20:46 |
| alterego | Or when did you think you sent it ;) | 20:46 |
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| qos | some days ago ... not more than 7 | 20:47 |
| alterego | Hmm .. Well I didn't get it. | 20:47 |
| alterego | I might of accidentally deleted it. | 20:47 |
| Tak | are you both talking about ruby-maemo? | 20:47 |
| alterego | Yeah | 20:47 |
| qos | are there some guys with good tips about my scratchbox compiling problem? ./configure stops with http://pastebin.ca/773691 | 20:49 |
| b0unc3 | qos: update intltool | 20:52 |
| b0unc3 | like the error suggest | 20:52 |
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| qos | b0unc3, "apt-cache show intltool | grep -i version" gives "Version: 0.35.0-3" | 20:53 |
| qos | b0unc3, it seems to be high enough | 20:53 |
| lardman | line 3 sounds like the .in file doesn't exist | 20:54 |
| lardman | though the "found" on the next line might mean it was found elsewhere | 20:55 |
| qos | lardman, so? i can't handle this error | 20:55 |
| lardman | what are you compiling? | 20:56 |
| qos | kryptpad | 20:56 |
| lardman | and does this ./intltool-update.in exist? | 20:56 |
| lardman | the error message may be caused by something other than the version of intltool, i.e. the fact the .in file isn't there for some reason | 20:57 |
| qos | no, i don't think so. but it wasn't in the source package | 20:57 |
| b0unc3 | qos: have you executed ./autogen.sh ? | 20:58 |
| alterego | Neat, blogger can make remote blogs. | 20:58 |
| qos | that was the first i did | 20:59 |
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| qos | b0unc3, see here: http://pastebin.ca/773710 | 21:00 |
| b0unc3 | line 16 said intltoolize not found... maybe this cause the error.. | 21:01 |
| alterego | I'm setting me up a maemo blog. | 21:01 |
| alterego | Though I'm not sure how often I'll use it. | 21:01 |
| alterego | I've never had a blog before .. | 21:01 |
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| qos | hmm ... it seems to be part of intltool package. but the command itself isn't installed or availible | 21:02 |
| lardman | the wonders of debian packaging within scratchbox ;) | 21:03 |
| qos | lardman, ok :) so... outside scratchbox there is intltoolize. can i use it in scratchbox somehow? | 21:03 |
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| lardman | qos: I'd try to install it from source if possible - using the debian tools | 21:05 |
| lardman | presumably it complained that you didn't have it when you started the build and you used -d to ignore it? | 21:05 |
| qos | lardman, could you explain that? do you mean to crosscompile it? | 21:05 |
| qos | lardman, i dont think that you mean that ;) | 21:06 |
| lardman | yes, though I see that chinook at least has it pre-installed (intltools) | 21:06 |
| lardman | I'm not sure how to make an x86 (outside) scratchbox tool available within it | 21:06 |
| porter | has anyone tried using the new DT_GNU_HASH binutils and the corresponding glibc patches in scratchbox for a build and a test run of hello world ? | 21:07 |
| porter | I did see this http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg06019.html | 21:07 |
| porter | but nothing since. | 21:07 |
| lardman | qos: does apt-cache search intltools show that it is installed? | 21:08 |
| lardman | qos: I don;t know the command to show the files in a package, might be worth checking if intltoolize is somewhere not in the path | 21:08 |
| qos | lardman, i am checking this right now | 21:09 |
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| b0unc3 | qos: dpkg -L intltool | 21:09 |
| lardman | hmm, says it's not installed to me, but apt-cache says it's there - does apt-cache list the available packages? | 21:10 |
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| qos | damn, i know where my error was. i thought just because "apt-cache show intltool | grep Version" shows the right version that it is already installed. stupid mistake ... :( | 21:11 |
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| lardman | debian packaging is all greek to me | 21:11 |
| milhouse | my n800/os2008 has forgotten it has buttons (again) - easy to reproduce, lock it, unlock it, hey presto - no buttons! :) | 21:11 |
| lardman | milhouse: works for me | 21:11 |
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| milhouse | actually - lock it, unlock it, lock it againt (then no buttons which is a real bitch) | 21:11 |
| lardman | ah, let me see then | 21:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just use softpoweroff | 21:12 |
| qos | A new error, a new fun: "No package 'hildon-libs' found" | 21:12 |
| qos | i think this is because of the api change of chinook | 21:13 |
| lardman | nope, works for me, done it a few times in a row now | 21:13 |
| qos | lardman, works for me too | 21:13 |
| milhouse | lardman: hmmm... just rebooted gonna have to play some more | 21:13 |
| milhouse | aha | 21:13 |
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| milhouse | lock, unlock, lock, unlock, lock (then you're fcked) | 21:13 |
| milhouse | try that | 21:14 |
| TPC | works for me | 21:14 |
| milhouse | i'm rebooting again now... | 21:14 |
| lardman | lol | 21:14 |
| KevinVerma | hello everyone, can i get to download the vmware or xen/qemu/kvm images of the Chinook ? please guide | 21:14 |
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| milhouse | TPC - "works for you" does this mean your N800 doesn't forget it has buttons? | 21:15 |
| qos | milhouse, did it. nothing. | 21:15 |
| milhouse | s/you/me/ | 21:15 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: TPC - "works for me" does this mean your N800 doesn't forget it has buttons? | 21:15 |
| fysa | milhouse, when you installed OS2008 did you have it keep your backup? | 21:15 |
| qos | my n800 doesn't forget his buttons | 21:15 |
| fysa | or did you start fresh? | 21:15 |
| milhouse | fysa - no | 21:16 |
| fysa | man this OS2008 interface is so much better. | 21:16 |
| TPC | milhouse, yep, thats what it means | 21:16 |
| milhouse | maybe microb needs to be running... i just booted, couldn't get it to forget it's buttons (locked/unlocked about 5 times in a row) then fired up microb and guess what? no buttons! | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's nice that the Application Manager keeps your place now. | 21:18 |
| milhouse | nope nothing to do with microb - just booted again, no apps running and it forgot it's buttons on the third unlock | 21:18 |
| KevinVerma | I notice earlier there were vm images available of the sdk or sandbox env. are those around still ? | 21:19 |
| milhouse | some wierdness going on | 21:19 |
| milhouse | i wonder if i should report this as a bug? | 21:19 |
| TPC | milhouse, can't reproduce it with microb either | 21:19 |
| milhouse | i don't think microb is a factor | 21:19 |
| milhouse | i've only installed sshd (server) | 21:19 |
| lardman | cool, app manager gets you to sort out dodgy repos now | 21:19 |
| lardman | thanks Nokia :) | 21:20 |
| fysa | I'd try flashing again from scratch first.. | 21:20 |
| TPC | milhouse, I'm not sure if you should be reporting a bug when you're not running an official version of the software :P | 21:20 |
| fysa | check dmesg? | 21:20 |
| milhouse | TPC - exactly which is why I asked :) | 21:20 |
| milhouse | then again it would be bad if OS2008 for N800 was released with this bug | 21:20 |
| milhouse | (someone else reported it here earlier) | 21:21 |
| lardman | I'd not report it to be honest | 21:21 |
| alterego | O_o | 21:21 |
| milhouse | maybe someone from Nokia is reading this and can pass the word along if necessary :) | 21:22 |
| alterego | We shouldn't even be using OS2008 :P | 21:22 |
| lardman | it's the kind of thing that would be tested (I assume) and you're running a non-official firmware.... | 21:22 |
| milhouse | lardman - true but you don't get it on your device, i get it mine, so possibly it could slip through | 21:23 |
| milhouse | s/it mine/it on mine/ | 21:23 |
| infobot | milhouse meant: lardman - true but you don't get it on your device, i get it on mine, so possibly it could slip through | 21:23 |
| * dieman wonders out loud: how many hours (days?) to n810 | 21:23 | |
| alterego | Well my blog is set up .. Now what should I write about? :/ | 21:23 |
| milhouse | any old crap, most people do | 21:23 |
| bill20r3 | write something about your blog. | 21:23 |
| niteOwl2 | KevinVerma: yes, - see internettablettalk.com there is a thread there on this (vmware dev environment) | 21:23 |
| milhouse | :) | 21:24 |
| alterego | Maybe a ruby-maemo roadmap. | 21:24 |
| alterego | That would be a nice introduction :) | 21:24 |
| KevinVerma | niteOwl2, thanks i'll try to digg out | 21:24 |
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| KevinVerma | niteOwl2, someone asked for qemu images on the list today i guess, i am much interested in that but vmware images will work for now | 21:25 |
| fysa | battery meter is more accurate now? | 21:25 |
| KevinVerma | thanks | 21:25 |
| niteOwl2 | KevinVerma: Shouldn't be hard - I think it was recent - perhaps the last week or so. | 21:25 |
| fysa | showed almost totally full earlier, but now has one bar | 21:25 |
| niteOwl2 | KevinVerma: No problem | 21:25 |
| TPC | qemu can run vmware images | 21:25 |
| fysa | after updating. that's a good thing. | 21:25 |
| TPC | I think | 21:25 |
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| lardman | wumpus: you about? | 21:26 |
| KevinVerma | TPC, right read on someone's blog discussion there is a procedure i don't know of yet | 21:26 |
| lardman | wumpus: insmod: error inserting 'pvr.ko': -1 Invalid module format | 21:26 |
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| wumpus | invalid format.. hmm, that's even worse than missing symbols, means the architecture is wrong | 21:27 |
| lardman | drat! | 21:28 |
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| lardman | as in arm vs armel? | 21:28 |
| KevinVerma | TPC, internet is mazing, all you need is search - this might do - http://www.virtualizationdaily.com/archives/73_how-to-convert-a-vmware-virtual-appliance-to-work-with-parallels.html | 21:28 |
| KevinVerma | amazing :) | 21:29 |
| wumpus | I think so | 21:29 |
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| lardman | ah, I stripped it, dmesg says "pvr: module has no symbols (stripped?)" | 21:30 |
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| alterego | Not so sure about having to hold the stylus on the screen to stop menu's from closing .. | 21:30 |
| gratz|home | Hi all, followed instructions on pidgin.maemo.org but can't get libgnutls13 package to come up in package manager, searched on maemo hackers repo http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/dists/bora/main/binary-armel/Packages and there's libgnutls11 in there but that doesn't seem to come up in package manager either, any ideas? | 21:30 |
| TPC | is there a virtual machine for OS2008 SDK yet? | 21:30 |
| TPC | if so, could someone link me? | 21:31 |
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| TPC | final release that is, I can only find for the beta | 21:31 |
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| X-Fade | TPC: I just upgrade the beta one.. | 21:31 |
| lardman | ssh is soooo slow, I wonder if this is the effect of super-duper power saving | 21:31 |
| guardian | evening | 21:31 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Check if it stays in 165000 mode.. | 21:31 |
| alterego | Not slow on my device. | 21:31 |
| lardman | wumpus: With the unstripped version I get "pvr: version magic '2.6.14.7-omap2 ARMv6 gcc-3.4' should be '2.6.21-omap1 mod_unload ARMv6 '" | 21:32 |
| gratz|home | forget that | 21:33 |
| _Monkey | gratz|home: I forgot that | 21:33 |
| gratz|home | it doesn't come up in the list, just is a dep of pidgin | 21:33 |
| gratz|home | and i pasted wrong link, wasn't the bora dist | 21:33 |
| gratz|home | cheers cya | 21:33 |
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| wumpus | lardman: that looks better | 21:34 |
| qos | btw, how do i put something tpo repository.maemo.org/extras? | 21:34 |
| lardman | wumpus: looks like modprobe has more ignore options | 21:35 |
| lardman | is it possible to modprobe from a given file rather than letting it search? | 21:37 |
| wumpus | not that I know, but yeah just copy it to /lib/modules/<kernel/drivers then | 21:38 |
| lardman | hmm, isn't that mounted in the initfs, or can I just create the directory? | 21:39 |
| wumpus | I think you can just copy the file there, yes | 21:39 |
| alterego | Hmm .. Picasa only has 1G of storage. | 21:40 |
| alterego | I suppose that's not _that_ bad .. | 21:40 |
| wumpus | then do depmod -a and modprobe should find it | 21:40 |
| lardman | hmm, no depmod | 21:40 |
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| lardman | right, getting somewhere | 21:42 |
| lardman | ./modprobe --force-vermagic pvr | 21:42 |
| lardman | short flood: | 21:42 |
| lardman | [30470.945312] pvr: no version magic, tainting kernel. | 21:42 |
| lardman | [30470.945312] pvr: Unknown symbol pci_bus_write_config_dword | 21:42 |
| lardman | [30470.945312] pvr: Unknown symbol pci_find_slot | 21:42 |
| lardman | [30470.945312] pvr: Unknown symbol __arch_copy_from_user | 21:42 |
| lardman | [30470.953125] pvr: Unknown symbol pci_bus_read_config_dword | 21:42 |
| lardman | [30470.953125] pvr: Unknown symbol __arch_copy_to_user | 21:42 |
| X-Fade | lardman: That doesn't look all that bad.. | 21:43 |
| lardman | no, vaguely hopeful | 21:43 |
| X-Fade | No weird non_descriptive symbols. | 21:43 |
| lardman | anyway, got to go for a bit, if anyone has any thoughts please let me know, will read my backlog in a while | 21:44 |
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| fysa | scrollbars are still too small. | 21:45 |
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| wumpus | hm, seems it has no pci symbols | 21:48 |
| ywwg | what does maemo use for its GTK web browsing widget? gtkmozembed? gtkhtml? webkit? | 21:48 |
| wumpus | which makes sense as the device has no pci | 21:48 |
| *** lardman|afk is now known as lardman | 21:48 | |
| lardman | wrap it and provide fake symbols? | 21:48 |
| wumpus | but what to provide instead? | 21:48 |
| alterego | ywwg, the web browser or help system? | 21:49 |
| lardman | not that I have any idea how to wrap a driver | 21:49 |
| wumpus | looks like it will assume the device is on the pci bus | 21:49 |
| ywwg | alterego: I need to embed html in my application, so... I guess the web browser? | 21:49 |
| alterego | The web browser uses Gecko. | 21:49 |
| alterego | If you want to embed HTML in your app you should use GtkMozEmbed or gtkhtml | 21:49 |
| lardman | wumpus: you think, it's not just that the kernel it was compiled for happens to have those symbols exported? | 21:49 |
| alterego | MozEmbed isn't installed by default though. | 21:50 |
| ywwg | alterego: my app is python anyway, so there's a lot not installed by default :/ | 21:50 |
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| lardman | wumpus: or do modules only list symbols they use? | 21:50 |
| alterego | ywwg, I sure Python has gtkhtml bindings .. | 21:50 |
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| ywwg | alterego: yes I know. I'm just trying to figure out what'll work best on the platform. | 21:51 |
| wumpus | lardman: there is a faint chance that it also looks somewhere else, but if it needs pci bindings it uses them | 21:51 |
| alterego | ywwg, gtk html | 21:52 |
| alterego | As long as your needs aren't too great. | 21:52 |
| ywwg | alterego: hm, I was afraid of that :/ | 21:52 |
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| alterego | Why were you affraid of it? | 21:53 |
| ywwg | alterego: I do support gtkhtml but it's nowhere near as nice as the moz version. gtkhtml has a lot of issues | 21:53 |
| alterego | Is there something wrong with libgtkhtml? | 21:53 |
| alterego | Well use MozEmbed then! | 21:53 |
| alterego | Which .. _is_ actually included in 2008 .. | 21:54 |
| alterego | (my mistake) | 21:54 |
| ywwg | alterego: oh | 21:54 |
| wumpus | lardman: the easiest way to wrap the driver would be to make a module that provides those symbols itself | 21:54 |
| lardman | wumpus: indeed | 21:54 |
| ywwg | alterego: do I need a special package for it? or is it on by default? | 21:54 |
| alterego | It's on by default. | 21:54 |
| ywwg | alterego: oh that's perfect then | 21:54 |
| lardman | only a few pci related names: http://pastebin.ca/773790 | 21:55 |
| ywwg | alterego: where did you find out it's installed by default? I'm still learning the SDK and the site and all | 21:56 |
| alterego | ywwg, you'll have to work out how to get the dev libraries though. | 21:56 |
| ywwg | ah | 21:56 |
| alterego | ywwg, I saw it in /usr/lib | 21:56 |
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| ywwg | alterego: I don't see it in mine. I do have gtkhtml, but no gtkmozembed | 21:57 |
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| alterego | The browser isn't installed ;) | 21:57 |
| alterego | Which is by default in OS2008 | 21:57 |
| lardman | wumpus: the pepperpad driver also has 00003c94 T HostPCIReadDword & 00003ca8 T HostPCIWriteDword but nothing else | 21:58 |
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| khertan | Hi ! | 21:58 |
| *** lardman is now known as lardman|afk | 21:59 | |
| khertan | someone have already try to dev python hildon-home applet ? | 21:59 |
| khertan | the only example i ve found on the net, import a 'hildondesktop' lib | 21:59 |
| wumpus | lardman|afk: I don't get it, why would some omap devices have pci and not others | 21:59 |
| khertan | but when i try to import 'hildondestop' in ipython the lib isn't found | 22:00 |
| alterego | khertan, there are examples in the maemo svn .. But don't ask me where. | 22:00 |
| khertan | lol it s the problem | 22:00 |
| khertan | i can't find anyone | 22:00 |
| alterego | It's in the SVN! | 22:01 |
| alterego | branches | 22:01 |
| alterego | somewhere. | 22:01 |
| khertan | yes but there is no search :) | 22:01 |
| alterego | Have you not heard of Google? | 22:01 |
| lardman|afk | http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12013&contentId=4581 | 22:02 |
| khertan | yes but google isn't my friend | 22:02 |
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| khertan | i think i don't have the right keyword | 22:02 |
| khertan | https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/maemo-af-desktop/example-plugins/src/pythonhome.py | 22:03 |
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| khertan | it s what i get ... but don't work | 22:03 |
| alterego | Hmm .. It's moved. | 22:03 |
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| cbx33 | hey guys | 22:04 |
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| cbx33 | Can someone tell me how can I get the n800 to work over a phone on bluetooth, after I've finished the initial setup | 22:06 |
| cbx33 | there is no wizard for it anymore | 22:06 |
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| alterego | cbx33, goto your control panel | 22:07 |
| cbx33 | ok | 22:07 |
| alterego | cbx33, then add a new internet connection. | 22:07 |
| khertan | so ... if someone find example ... | 22:07 |
| khertan | don't hesitate to email me | 22:07 |
| cbx33 | alterego, is it mobile operator setup wizard? | 22:08 |
| alterego | Yes | 22:09 |
| cbx33 | ahhh | 22:09 |
| alterego | I guess that'll do it | 22:09 |
| cbx33 | ok see there's no icon :p | 22:09 |
| cbx33 | hmmm | 22:09 |
| cbx33 | no | 22:09 |
| cbx33 | that just setup | 22:09 |
| cbx33 | the mobile operator..... | 22:09 |
| cbx33 | ahhhhhhh | 22:10 |
| cbx33 | hang on | 22:10 |
| wumpus | lardman|afk: but yeah, the device has nothing like an pci bus, or other auto-detect bus, so you'll probably have to pass some i/o address as parameter? I dunno | 22:10 |
| alterego | Wow, they've even made the touch screen calibration screen prettier ^_^ | 22:10 |
| cbx33 | alterego, in what? | 22:11 |
| alterego | OS2008 | 22:11 |
| _Monkey | rumour has it OS2008 is really fast | 22:11 |
| cbx33 | is it out yet? | 22:12 |
| cbx33 | IS IT HERE YET? | 22:12 |
| alterego | It's out of the bag. | 22:12 |
| alterego | But not officially release. | 22:12 |
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| cbx33 | out of the bag meaning? | 22:13 |
| cbx33 | available? | 22:13 |
| alterego | It's been leaked. | 22:13 |
| cbx33 | oh dear | 22:13 |
| cbx33 | that's not good | 22:13 |
| alterego | Depends on the point-of-view. | 22:13 |
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| cbx33 | how can it be good? | 22:13 |
| p| | yo :) | 22:13 |
| alterego | It allows developers to properly test their applications on the device before the real release. | 22:14 |
| lardman|afk | wumpus: I guess I could look to see where those calls are made, but I lack the necessary tools | 22:14 |
| alterego | In some ways I think it's a good thing this happened .. Personally .. | 22:14 |
| alterego | Of course .. This wont happen again. | 22:14 |
| p| | when it will be out OS2009 ? ;-) | 22:15 |
| alterego | As updates in the future will be done by the application manager and flashing wont be required for simple software updates. | 22:15 |
| K`zan | Does the N800 need a screen protector? If so does it really matter which one gets. | 22:15 |
| alterego | That's been leaked too :P | 22:15 |
| alterego | ^_^ | 22:15 |
| alterego | K`zan, I'd say having a screen protector is a good idea. But no it doesn't matter which one it's up to you. | 22:16 |
| p| | K`zan: i have ordered it forom 'brando' | 22:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | boxwave anti-glare, K`zan. | 22:16 |
| p| | from* | 22:16 |
| cbx33 | alterego, i just think that....well....the people who worked on it will feel really guted | 22:16 |
| K`zan | alterego: OK, thanks, I'll order one - anti-glare sounds like a good idea. | 22:16 |
| cbx33 | i bought one, just gotta find time to put it on | 22:17 |
| cbx33 | :p | 22:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | "guted" | 22:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pft | 22:17 |
| K`zan | LOL, still don't have one on the Z31, it has enough problems with the digitizer as it is. | 22:17 |
| alterego | http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=thomas.swindell&aid=5132781668476280881&iid=5132783158829932610 | 22:17 |
| alterego | That'll make you change your mind ;) | 22:17 |
| alterego | They should be very proud .. | 22:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | No kidding | 22:18 |
| alterego | It really does look beautiful. | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | This is so much cooler than the jump from 2005 to 2006 | 22:18 |
| czr | evenink | 22:18 |
| alterego | Hello czr | 22:18 |
| cbx33 | wow | 22:18 |
| cbx33 | it is nice | 22:18 |
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| czr | btw, does anyone know whether eero tamminen is on freenode and with which nick? | 22:18 |
| cbx33 | but still | 22:18 |
| czr | hey alterego | 22:18 |
| khertan | I can confirm that pypackager work on OS2008 | 22:19 |
| khertan | yes ... ! | 22:19 |
| Daniellion | no too bad | 22:19 |
| suihkulokki | czr: doesn't irc. but I can drag and drop him to meritähti ;) | 22:19 |
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| czr | suihkulokki, hehe. but I don't go to meritahti all that often unless something network/server related breaks at the office :-) | 22:19 |
| czr | suihkulokki, nm though. he just wrote a funny reply to one of my replies on the maemo-devel list. | 22:20 |
| * czr saw openmoko today for the first time | 22:20 | |
| K`zan | Your Buy.com order is on its way - shipped - Hoperfully by Friday :-)!!! | 22:20 |
| p| | does xchat work on os2008 ? | 22:20 |
| czr | I must say, I was impressed (I expected much less) | 22:20 |
| khertan | does someone | 22:21 |
| teprrr | czr, with qtopia or openmoko software? | 22:21 |
| K`zan | Would LOVE to have xchat for the n800! | 22:21 |
| khertan | does someone have already make binding for libglade in os2008 ? | 22:21 |
| czr | teprrr, openmoko. GTA-01 | 22:21 |
| Tak | K`zan: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/install/xchat.install | 22:21 |
| czr | damn, my keyboard needs serious cleaning. | 22:21 |
| teprrr | czr, well, gta-01 is hardware thingy ;I | 22:21 |
| czr | teprrr, openmoko on GTA-01. | 22:21 |
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| teprrr | ahh, yes | 22:21 |
| czr | that's what I meant. | 22:21 |
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| teprrr | last time I tried it (it was three weeks ago or more) gsmd used to crash all the time | 22:22 |
| K`zan | Tak: Thanks, bookmarking it as one of the first things I'll install on it when it gets here :). | 22:22 |
| p| | alterego: i want that background image ! :D | 22:22 |
| teprrr | could call to my own phone after three reboots :) | 22:22 |
| czr | teprrr, this was running a recent flash. it survived at least couple of calls ;-) | 22:22 |
| teprrr | with qtopia it worked just fine | 22:22 |
| czr | teprrr, as said, I was expected much less :-) | 22:22 |
| czr | didn't say it was perfect. very very very far from it :-) | 22:22 |
| czr | (very)+ | 22:23 |
| alterego | p|, I'll send it to you if you like. Can you accept files? | 22:23 |
| K`zan | Anyone know how long it might be for the 2007 apps (assuming that is what is on the device) to be ported to 2008? | 22:23 |
| p| | i think yes (i'm on umts) | 22:23 |
| alterego | Hang on. | 22:23 |
| suihkulokki | K`zan: a fast as you port them =) | 22:24 |
| alterego | p|, better to just upload to some webspace :) | 22:24 |
| khertan | lol | 22:24 |
| alterego | p|, http://alterego.freeshell.org/desert_island.jpg | 22:24 |
| p| | ok :) | 22:24 |
| K`zan | :-), ok, Hopefully the SDK will run under fedora, if not I can backpedal to deb4 :-). | 22:24 |
| p| | ok, time to upgrade to os2008 for my n800 ;) | 22:24 |
| czr | suihkulokki, can I use madeira instead? although I'm slightly worried that alko will go on strike too. what will then happen to all the porting business? | 22:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably faster now with OS2008 leaked. | 22:25 |
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| p| | i've read about problems with browser on so2008 ? | 22:25 |
| K`zan | Wow, immersion, get to figure out the device when it gets here and an sdk too :-) LOL. | 22:25 |
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| cbx33 | so is 2008 available from somewhere? | 22:26 |
| suihkulokki | czr: madeira? =) | 22:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've had one crash over the past 20 hours or so, p|. | 22:26 |
| cbx33 | is it the RC release? | 22:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a leaked release | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't imagine that they didn't see this coming. | 22:27 |
| alterego | Can't say I've seen a problem. | 22:27 |
| alterego | The vkb is annoying though. | 22:27 |
| czr | suihkulokki, joo. port-viinin variantti mita valmistetaan madeiran saarella. hitto et meni hukkaan toiki vitsi :-) | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | oh? | 22:27 |
| alterego | When using forms but that's always been true. | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | how is it annoying? | 22:27 |
| cbx33 | is it better than the last one? | 22:27 |
| lardman|afk | wumpus: that dev board has a pci-emulator on it | 22:27 |
| * cbx33 uses the vbk | 22:27 | |
| czr | suihkulokki, oh, sry, just switched from an -fi channel back here. /me is slightly tired. | 22:28 |
| cbx33 | do we have an anticipated os2008 release date? | 22:28 |
| czr | cbx33, soon? | 22:28 |
| cbx33 | hah | 22:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | December seems to be what they're saying. | 22:28 |
| penguinbait | I am running it today, soon enough? | 22:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The select background dialog seems a little flaky. | 22:29 |
| suihkulokki | :P | 22:29 |
| penguinbait | check out cellwriter running on KDE on n800 2008OS | 22:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll freeze everything up about every 3rd time I use it. | 22:29 |
| penguinbait | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11726&goto=newpost | 22:29 |
| czr | suihkulokki, I will now have to prepare another badly fitting joke. | 22:30 |
| teprrr | czr, yup, qtopia was quite nice on it. could send photos via bt from my phone to it and crop the images and so | 22:30 |
| teprrr | and even calling worked ;) | 22:30 |
| cbx33 | KDE runs on the N800????????????????? | 22:31 |
| czr | teprrr, not bad. didn't know that it worked that well. | 22:31 |
| cbx33 | where the hell have I been | 22:31 |
| teprrr | need to test those more when I get a copy of that phone later on | 22:31 |
| czr | cbx33, or what have you smoked :-) | 22:31 |
| lardman|afk | as a matter of general interest, are there any available arm disassemblers? | 22:31 |
| czr | kde != qtopia. n800 != what we were talking about :-) | 22:31 |
| alterego | I personally think Maemo looks a _lot_ nicer than KDE. | 22:31 |
| suihkulokki | czr: huonosti sopivia vitsejä täältä: http://www.hs.fi/fingerpori/ | 22:31 |
| czr | lardman|afk, what's wrong with objdump -d? | 22:31 |
| K`zan | What was the model of that apple BT keyboard that worked so well? | 22:31 |
| cbx33 | czr I know that | 22:32 |
| lardman|afk | czr: sounds ok, I'm too used to the dsp tools | 22:32 |
| czr | suihkulokki, heh. not you too. I have to suffer through those at the office as it is. we have a nice girl that tortures me with them occasionally. | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | K`zan, there are only two and they both work fine. ;) | 22:32 |
| K`zan | GeneralAntilles: Thankee Sir! Notice that batteries are inexpensive enough for this too. Cool :). | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd recommend the iGo/ThinkOutside for the portability if you only have cash for one keyboard. | 22:33 |
| czr | suihkulokki, these are so much better: http://xkcd.com/340/ | 22:34 |
| teprrr | alterego, I'd prefer qt over gtk. coding qt is so much nicer :P | 22:35 |
| K`zan | I see the BT keyboard comes with a one button mouse, does that work with the n800? | 22:35 |
| suihkulokki | hah | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not really, no. | 22:35 |
| alterego | teprrr, I disagree but whatever | 22:35 |
| cbx33 | alterego, ++ | 22:35 |
| K`zan | Ah, OK, not really a problem, but it could be nice :) | 22:35 |
| Tak | meh @ qt | 22:35 |
| teprrr | alterego, yup, personal preference, just like comparing qt's outlook to gtk one | 22:35 |
| K`zan | Thanks for all the help / info here - MUCH appreciated! | 22:35 |
| teprrr | s/outlook/outfit/ :) | 22:35 |
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| Tak | any library that requires a precompiler... | 22:36 |
| lardman|afk | wumpus: not sure if they ought to appear, but there are no calls to the pci functions (HostPCIReadDword & HostPCIWriteDword). The other pci bits and bobs are called within these functions | 22:36 |
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| fysa | where is OS2008 X-Chat? | 22:36 |
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| cbx33 | are there any custom kernel modules for the n800 | 22:36 |
| teprrr | fysa, on garage perhaps? or perhaps no one has ported it yet | 22:36 |
| czr | suihkulokki, 336, 329 and finally 327. favourites from xkcd (recent ones, the really good ones are older) | 22:36 |
| fysa | didn't see xchat on garage. let me check again. | 22:36 |
| TPC | lardman, argh, you keep highlightening me the word HostPCI has the word TPC in it | 22:37 |
| TPC | :P | 22:37 |
| lardman | sorry :) | 22:37 |
| alterego | Hahahah | 22:37 |
| cbx33 | hehe | 22:37 |
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| penguinbait | KDE358 QT338 | 22:38 |
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| penguinbait | not qtopia | 22:38 |
| TPC | penguinbait, how does kde run on 2008 compared to 2007? | 22:40 |
| wumpus | lardman: curious | 22:40 |
| penguinbait | better | 22:40 |
| penguinbait | :) | 22:40 |
| wumpus | lardman: does it have any other symbols that signify hardware detection some other way? | 22:40 |
| qos | really? why? | 22:40 |
| wumpus | I wonder *how* it accesses the device, how it finds it | 22:41 |
| lardman | I'm just reading the asm for the init function | 22:42 |
| K`zan | Is there a preferred distro to run the SDK(s) under? | 22:42 |
| wumpus | ok | 22:42 |
| cbx33 | penguinbait, does it run well? | 22:42 |
| cbx33 | like as fast as the native environment? | 22:42 |
| lardman | wumpus: God knows, too late in the evening to be reading assembly | 22:43 |
| penguinbait | no, I dont think so, it uses much more memory | 22:43 |
| cbx33 | penguinbait, ahh | 22:43 |
| penguinbait | but it is completely useable | 22:43 |
| cbx33 | so do people who've gotten the os2008 have an n810 with which to nab the serial number then? | 22:43 |
| cbx33 | penguinbait, cool | 22:43 |
| cbx33 | are the rumours about the processor overclock true? | 22:44 |
| TPC | kde4 will be interesting | 22:44 |
| wumpus | lardman: idd | 22:44 |
| TPC | as its supposed to have a lower memory footprint than kde3 | 22:44 |
| cbx33 | really? | 22:44 |
| penguinbait | what rumors | 22:45 |
| penguinbait | I can not get QT 4.3 to compile | 22:45 |
| penguinbait | yet !! | 22:45 |
| Daniellion | too bad there isn't nice installer for it. or a flash | 22:45 |
| TPC | cbx33, its not technically being overclocked | 22:45 |
| cbx33 | that the os2008 overclocks the proc faster than before? | 22:45 |
| Daniellion | heah how does nokia make a flash binary.. is that something we can do too? | 22:45 |
| penguinbait | Some day, perhaps a few months | 22:45 |
| cbx33 | ok | 22:45 |
| cbx33 | but you know what I mean | 22:45 |
| TPC | cbx33, OS2007 was underclocking it | 22:45 |
| TPC | to save battery | 22:45 |
| penguinbait | yes its runnning faster CPU clock speed | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, sometimes. | 22:45 |
| TPC | OS2008 is bringing it up to its real speed, since they are saving battery some other ways instead | 22:45 |
| _Monkey | somebody said sometimes was frustating | 22:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mostly, we have CPU throttling now. | 22:46 |
| cbx33 | is it.....oh man.......I'm in two minds whether to try finding os2008 | 22:46 |
| penguinbait | hardware limits: 165 MHz - 400 MHz | 22:46 |
| penguinbait | available frequency steps: 165 MHz, 266 MHz, 330 MHz, 400 MHz | 22:46 |
| TPC | cbx33, its not binary compatible | 22:47 |
| TPC | cbx33, most software hasn't been compiled for OS2008 yet | 22:47 |
| cbx33 | ahh ok | 22:47 |
| TPC | cbx33, so if you try it don't expect any third party apps to work yet | 22:47 |
| * cbx33 will probably wait.... | 22:47 | |
| TPC | give it a few weeks and most software should have been moved over | 22:47 |
| cbx33 | it'll be a nice christmas present then | 22:47 |
| penguinbait | many things will work out the box, and they are still binary compatible | 22:48 |
| penguinbait | just changed some libs | 22:48 |
| cbx33 | ahhh | 22:48 |
| K`zan | Thinking of setting up the sdk(s?) under {some distro} under vmware... | 22:48 |
| cbx33 | scratchbox? | 22:49 |
| _Monkey | scratchbox is a cross-compilation toolkit for maemo application development. Homepage: http://www.scratchbox.org/ Maemo 3.x (bora/N800) tutorial: http://qurl.org/yN Maemo 2.2 (gregale/770) tutorial: http://qurl.org/zN A walkthrough for 3.x: http://qurl.org/0O Scratchbox Downloads: http://qurl.org/1O | 22:49 |
| Daniellion | Heah long as i can get pidgin xchat ill be happy | 22:49 |
| penguinbait | install from the maemo scratchbox/sdk scripts, its very easy | 22:49 |
| TPC | if you're on x86 that is, if you're running 64 bit you're out of luck :( | 22:49 |
| cbx33 | HAHAHAHA......I just clicked on the link and realised it's my blog | 22:49 |
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| cbx33 | that's hilarious | 22:51 |
| p| | ok, my n800 is now OS2008 based :) | 22:52 |
| cbx33 | p| howz it look? | 22:53 |
| p| | _VERY_ fine :) | 22:53 |
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| p| | beautiful bubbles :) | 22:54 |
| penguinbait | ugly | 22:54 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 22:54 |
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| penguinbait | I like the windows style change, but the Icons are just ugly | 22:54 |
| fysa | the tray icons are *way* better. | 22:55 |
| cbx33 | man a couple of weeks is agony | 22:55 |
| TPC | penguinbait, for day to day usage on your IT, do you use kde or the default window manager? | 22:55 |
| p| | also the interface in general | 22:55 |
| fysa | the entire interface is much more professional and less .. 12 year old. | 22:55 |
| penguinbait | I use KDE | 22:55 |
| p| | lol | 22:55 |
| cbx33 | oooh I'm all excited | 22:56 |
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| p| | now we lack only mmc2 boot :) | 22:57 |
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| pc_speaker | Which bluetooth is good for N800? | 22:58 |
| pc_speaker | GPS is mean | 22:58 |
| pc_speaker | Shit missing whole words :) | 22:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | i-blue 737 | 22:59 |
| l7 | pc_speaker: i've heard good things about the iblue 737 and 757 | 22:59 |
| penguinbait | i-blue is what I have | 22:59 |
| l7 | also the holux 1000 or 12000? | 22:59 |
| l7 | 1200 | 22:59 |
| pc_speaker | Thanks :) | 22:59 |
| p| | seems gps does work :) | 22:59 |
| pc_speaker | Will google to check them now :) | 22:59 |
| l7 | penguinbait: it seems the majority of people with n800s have an iblue right? | 22:59 |
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| l7 | i understand that the iblue has a useful autooff feature | 23:00 |
| penguinbait | It was the first confirmed working on 770, that why I bought it | 23:00 |
| penguinbait | I have been very happy with my i-blue | 23:00 |
| l7 | the holux may be smaller though, i'm not sure | 23:00 |
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| l7 | penguinbait: any bugs or nitpicks at all? | 23:00 |
| l7 | i'm wondering how the size is | 23:00 |
| pc_speaker | And what about the maps? Western Europe available? | 23:01 |
| penguinbait | Nope, the i-blue has never given me a problem. The only thing I would say is if you want to use it in windows/laptop also you may want another device, I am not sure if that works? | 23:01 |
| p| | is it 'normal' that control panel info say 2 <unknown> lines ? | 23:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's about 1/2 the size of my (empty :P) tri-fold wallet and the same thickness. | 23:02 |
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| fysa | penguinbait, you tried using NX yet? | 23:05 |
| penguinbait | NX? | 23:05 |
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| penguinbait | its odd, when I cat proc/cpuinfo it shows 160 bogomips | 23:06 |
| Daniellion | iblue? | 23:06 |
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| fysa | NX = like VNC but way way faster. | 23:06 |
| penguinbait | kinfoenter, shows 388bogomips | 23:06 |
| fysa | probably overclocking dynamically | 23:06 |
| penguinbait | No I am using VNC though | 23:06 |
| fysa | NX is 100x faster than VNC.. | 23:07 |
| penguinbait | and XRDP | 23:07 |
| fysa | and there was an NX client for OS2007, but never tried. | 23:07 |
| fysa | KDE over NX may be more responsive than native KDE. | 23:07 |
| Daniellion | Ohhhh is that for phone/ipod. uing any headphones? | 23:07 |
| Daniellion | Just what i neeeed | 23:07 |
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| Daniellion | have a nice set of shures to use | 23:07 |
| cbx33 | NX is awesome | 23:07 |
| TPC | nx? | 23:07 |
| cbx33 | there is a client for n800? | 23:07 |
| _Monkey | nx is 100x faster than VNC.. | 23:07 |
| fysa | http://www.reviewsforjoomla.com/option,com_smf/Itemid,34/topic,2427.msg11270/ | 23:07 |
| penguinbait | I will look into it, currently I add vncviewer and xvnc server and XRDP to my KDE builds | 23:08 |
| fysa | http://www.danka.de/printpro/NX.html | 23:08 |
| cbx33 | though i was sure there was a memory leak in it | 23:08 |
| Daniellion | Has there been any new news on getting TTLS support on the wifi stack? | 23:08 |
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| cbx33 | where is the nx client for b800? | 23:09 |
| cbx33 | n800 | 23:09 |
| fysa | http://austinche.name/maemo/index.html | 23:09 |
| pc_speaker | NX is 100x faster than VNC... | 23:09 |
| fysa | NX is efficient enough to let me visit YouTube via Firefox on a LAN server. :) | 23:10 |
| fysa | haven't tried on the n800 yet though. | 23:10 |
| cbx33 | apparently it's buggy | 23:11 |
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| VRe | Tihis garnet VM is sweet, I used this old compiled up palmpilot emulator thing.. really slow.. but this is fast and I was even able to sync all the stuff from gpilotd (and thus all what I had on old palm) | 23:11 |
| VRe | Now I know, which calendar I will be using :) | 23:11 |
| penguinbait | So if I compile Kpilot, I wonder if it can sync | 23:12 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 23:12 |
| fysa | Tak, did you paste an X-Chat OS2008 link earlier? | 23:12 |
| penguinbait | KDE 3.5.8 has ability to sync with files/GPE/KDEPIM/GoogleCalendar | 23:13 |
| lardman|tv | anyone got a link for xterm for os2008? | 23:13 |
| penguinbait | And others, but those are comiled so far | 23:13 |
| pc_speaker | NX is faster than a speed of light :) | 23:13 |
| penguinbait | xterm is built in | 23:13 |
| cbx33 | heheh | 23:13 |
| fysa | new NX shadow mode is amazing. | 23:13 |
| lardman|tv | I thought that, couldn't see it | 23:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | xterm is pre-installed, lardman | 23:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Utilities | 23:13 |
| cbx33 | shadow mode? | 23:13 |
| penguinbait | its in the utilities menu | 23:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | scroll DOWN | 23:13 |
| cbx33 | I was sure that NX got slower over time | 23:14 |
| penguinbait | hehe, I I had to ask also | 23:14 |
| fysa | they just need to mix it with desktopless session | 23:14 |
| lardman|tv | ah cool, down arrow, silly me | 23:14 |
| cbx33 | fysa indeed | 23:14 |
| fysa | shadow mode is for sharing existing connections with multiple clients | 23:14 |
| pc_speaker | My wife returned to me after I started to use NX... | 23:14 |
| fysa | desktopless lets you run remote apps as if they were native | 23:14 |
| pc_speaker | It healed my dog... | 23:14 |
| pc_speaker | :) | 23:14 |
| fysa | the mix of the two would mean that I could disconnect from my work session on my desktop | 23:14 |
| cbx33 | fysa do they have desktopless yet? | 23:15 |
| fysa | and connect to it from anywhere else | 23:15 |
| cbx33 | ahhhh awesome | 23:15 |
| fysa | simultaneously.. | 23:15 |
| fysa | so all of my work apps would run on the server, then OS X/windows/N800 KDE could bring them all up. | 23:15 |
| cbx33 | coool | 23:15 |
| fysa | http://www.danka.de/printpro/NX.html | 23:15 |
| fysa | there are desktopless screenshots here | 23:15 |
| TPC | doesn't look like all of it is open source | 23:15 |
| fysa | http://www.danka.de/printpro/NX-konqi-in-WinXP-2.png | 23:15 |
| fysa | free as in beer. | 23:16 |
| TPC | which means that I'm not going to use it | 23:16 |
| fysa | your loss. | 23:16 |
| pc_speaker | Free beer :) | 23:16 |
| fysa | it's 342423424 better than anything else | 23:16 |
| fysa | so I could care less :) | 23:16 |
| pc_speaker | Believe in NX! | 23:16 |
| cbx33 | I try to be OS where possible | 23:16 |
| TPC | vmware may be slower, but its fast enough that I won't sacrafice my integrity to use something else | 23:16 |
| TPC | er | 23:16 |
| cbx33 | but NX is sooo much better | 23:16 |
| TPC | vnc may be slower* | 23:16 |
| cbx33 | TPC, so you're 100% OS? | 23:17 |
| fysa | cbx33, http://www.danka.de/printpro/NX-konqi-in-WinXP-2.png -- Konqueror in that screenshot is running on a remote machine | 23:17 |
| cbx33 | cool | 23:17 |
| TPC | cbx33, yes | 23:17 |
| fysa | basically, you could run a KDE launchbar that way.. | 23:17 |
| cbx33 | yes | 23:17 |
| fysa | and then each app would open in its own window on the desktop. | 23:17 |
| cbx33 | yeh | 23:17 |
| fysa | you suspend the session, reboot, reconnect and they all come back in the same place | 23:17 |
| cbx33 | that's in floating mode | 23:17 |
| fysa | right, floating mode. we need floating mode mixed with shadow/shared simultaneous sessions. | 23:18 |
| TPC | there is another way to do that | 23:18 |
| fysa | you can do it with just X11 itself, TPC. | 23:18 |
| TPC | its called X11 forwarding over ssh | 23:18 |
| cbx33 | yeh | 23:18 |
| cbx33 | true | 23:18 |
| fysa | that's what NX does. | 23:18 |
| TPC | or just XDMCP | 23:18 |
| fysa | NX uses XDMCP/X11 forwarding. | 23:18 |
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| fysa | but it's extremely intelligent awesome compression. | 23:18 |
| TPC | why would you need NX then? X can do it by itself | 23:18 |
| fysa | sdflksdflkfsd | 23:18 |
| fysa | god. | 23:18 |
| TPC | just pipe it trought zlib or soemthing | 23:18 |
| fysa | your mind is rust. | 23:18 |
| fysa | "The NX compression technology is really amazing. Can you imagine to have a KDE full desktop session through a GSM datalink connection with 9600 baud? Can you imagine that a remote KDE startup (fully visible to you) may transfer as little as 35 kByte through the wire, if run over an NX connection? (A normal X connection may use as much as 3.5 MByte of data...)." | 23:19 |
| pc_speaker | NX is better then viagra! | 23:19 |
| TPC | that may be | 23:19 |
| pc_speaker | Buy NX cheap! :) | 23:19 |
| TPC | but I have 24mbps broadband | 23:19 |
| fysa | there are open source servers. | 23:19 |
| TPC | not 9600 baud | 23:19 |
| TPC | :P | 23:19 |
| fysa | .. | 23:19 |
| cbx33 | I'm speechless | 23:19 |
| pc_speaker | Miracle... | 23:20 |
| fysa | the point is connecting to it via GSM/WiFi on your N800 while traveling. | 23:20 |
| guerby | fysa, did you use NX on N800 ? | 23:20 |
| pc_speaker | I want to believe... | 23:20 |
| Atarii | wow i want NX on my 770 | 23:20 |
| fysa | not yet. I've been using it on a laptop from hotels and such for business | 23:20 |
| fysa | leave my coding session open on my work machine at the office.. | 23:20 |
| TPC | fysa, and why would you use a slow expensive wap connection, when there are cheap inexpensive flat-rate 3G connections? | 23:20 |
| TPC | fast inexpensive* | 23:21 |
| fysa | because even 3G is too slow for VNC. | 23:21 |
| fysa | VNC is too slow for LAN dude. | 23:21 |
| TPC | nah | 23:21 |
| alterego | Interesting .. | 23:21 |
| fysa | .. | 23:21 |
| fysa | ok, sorry. | 23:21 |
| alterego | gtk moz embed is on the device but not in the SDK. | 23:21 |
| cbx33 | 3G is way too expensive | 23:21 |
| Daniellion | I found that the Version 2 LG chocolate rocks with the nokia tablets | 23:21 |
| fysa | I had to ignore you, TPC. | 23:21 |
| TPC | ignore me? | 23:21 |
| wumpus | I always use vnc to work from home etc.. it's very fast here | 23:21 |
| pc_speaker | NX works fast even over pigeon mail... | 23:21 |
| guerby | fysa, I use openvpn+vnc and it works over wan, a tad slow but still usable | 23:21 |
| cbx33 | try NX and you'll be amazed | 23:22 |
| fysa | usable, but nothing like native speed. | 23:22 |
| TPC | I use vnc to help my parents with their computers from time to time over the internet, its not slow | 23:22 |
| penguinbait | works for what I need it for also, althoug I am not trying to run it over DUN | 23:22 |
| fysa | NX vs VNC is night-and-day. | 23:22 |
| guerby | fysa, last time I looked at NX there was not a line of clear instruction on how to install it (even on a desktop) | 23:22 |
| wumpus | then again, my connection is quite fast, so I don't really need compression etc | 23:22 |
| fysa | yeah, 3.0 is much better. | 23:22 |
| maddler | evening all | 23:22 |
| fysa | one sec- | 23:22 |
| fysa | I'll show you how easy it is to install now. :) | 23:22 |
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| pc_speaker | Just think about it for a few minutes and it's already installed :)))) | 23:23 |
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| fysa | http://www.nomachine.com/select-package.php?os=linux&id=1 | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | methinks pc_speaker is a shill. | 23:23 |
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| fysa | # sudo dpkg -i nxclient_3.0.0-84_i386.deb | 23:23 |
| fysa | # sudo dpkg -i nxnode_3.0.0-88_i386.deb | 23:23 |
| fysa | # sudo dpkg -i nxserver_3.0.0-74_i386.deb | 23:23 |
| fysa | that's all. | 23:23 |
| fysa | then grab the NX client for Windows or whatever and away you go. | 23:24 |
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| cbx33 | fysa would be intereseting to see how it runs over the N800 | 23:24 |
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| fysa | logs in with the existing user account credentials, ssh-enscapulated efficient X11 forwarding | 23:24 |
| pc_speaker | OK I give up. Maybe will try it too... | 23:24 |
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| Daniellion | is there a link for nx? | 23:25 |
| fysa | definitely worth trying out. free forever. http://www.nomachine.com/select-package.php?os=linux&id=1 | 23:25 |
| alterego | The open ssh package is always broken :/ | 23:25 |
| alterego | I seem to have to uninstall it everytime I want to update it :/ | 23:25 |
| fysa | the difference is between knowing that you're connecting to a remote app versus feeling like it's completely native. | 23:26 |
| alterego | Best the former. | 23:26 |
| pc_speaker | So Firefox can ate all memory on some other's computer? Great :) | 23:27 |
| fysa | that's my next 'computing' goal. to switch entirely to NX-compatible apps so I can work from anywhere/anytime without losing my session. | 23:27 |
| fysa | exactly. | 23:27 |
| TPC | fysa, by the way, you do know that ssh can do compression all by itself do you? just pass -C to it | 23:27 |
| TPC | normal X11 forwarding is useless over the internet without -C because its slow | 23:27 |
| alterego | Yeah, ssh compresses. | 23:27 |
| cbx33 | fysa, my only problem was that wine apps don't seem to like working over it | 23:27 |
| fysa | TPC, I know you're trying to come up with great alternatives to NX, but there really is none. | 23:27 |
| TPC | but with -C its quite acceptable | 23:27 |
| fysa | there is a GPL fork. | 23:28 |
| fysa | try that. | 23:28 |
| fysa | it's a bitch to install, but it works. | 23:28 |
| cbx33 | freenx? | 23:28 |
| fysa | "FreeNX" | 23:28 |
| pc_speaker | As a beer? | 23:28 |
| cbx33 | you're right there | 23:28 |
| TPC | I have no need for an app like that, I'm just trying to figure out whats so great about it | 23:28 |
| cbx33 | it's terrible to intal | 23:28 |
| TPC | since from your description I haven't heard anything that X and ssh doesn't already do | 23:28 |
| fysa | .. | 23:28 |
| fysa | it's a million times faster than X + ssh -C | 23:28 |
| fysa | seriously. | 23:28 |
| fysa | it's not even close. | 23:28 |
| cbx33 | TPC, can you not just accept that it may actually be faster | 23:28 |
| fysa | I have a 4 megabyte/sec server | 23:29 |
| pc_speaker | And how do they do this? | 23:29 |
| fysa | and gigabit LAN | 23:29 |
| TPC | cbx33, sure, I can accept that | 23:29 |
| guerby | fysa, downloaded the 3 packages but I cannot find a coherent explanations of what to do with them, in particular what's that client/node/server terminology about? | 23:29 |
| cbx33 | cool | 23:29 |
| cbx33 | ;) | 23:29 |
| fysa | just install them, guerby | 23:29 |
| fysa | they rely on eachother | 23:29 |
| cbx33 | you have to do them in order | 23:29 |
| fysa | there is an Ubuntu NX howto out there if you need it. | 23:29 |
| cbx33 | else they'll complain | 23:29 |
| guerby | fysa, ok why they did three packages then? | 23:29 |
| fysa | scalability -- you can have machines that multiplex NX connections and do all sorts of crazy things | 23:29 |
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| fysa | but yeah, I see what you mean. | 23:30 |
| wumpus | do you work for them or so :P | 23:30 |
| fysa | TPC, you ever use Windows Remote Desktop? | 23:30 |
| fysa | RDC? | 23:30 |
| fysa | you know how much faster RDC is than VNC? | 23:30 |
| guerby | fysa, I won't install anything until I find an explanation on what nx installs and setups listening etc :) | 23:30 |
| Juhaz | "sudo yum install nx freenx" isn't all that hard as far as installations go... | 23:30 |
| fysa | NX is that much faster than RDC. | 23:30 |
| wumpus | I've used both, and didn't find rdc anything faster than vnc | 23:30 |
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| pc_speaker | :))) | 23:30 |
| fysa | OK, I give up. | 23:30 |
| wumpus | over a local network at least | 23:30 |
| cbx33 | fysa, i think it's for the best | 23:31 |
| fysa | http://www.nomachine.com/download-package.php?Prod_Id=6 | 23:31 |
| cbx33 | :p | 23:31 |
| fysa | read that. | 23:31 |
| fysa | install if you like. | 23:31 |
| fysa | I have to get back to work.. | 23:31 |
| pc_speaker | RDC on Windows uses native controls and don't transfer images over net :))) | 23:31 |
| TPC | fysa, you mean rdesktop? | 23:31 |
| TPC | I haven't used it myself, but I've seen it being used | 23:31 |
| TPC | the thing is that with vnc over the internet I get speeds that are as fast as if it was native if I'm not doing anything heavy on the graphical side (like loading a page in a web browser with lots of pictures or trying to watch a video, which I wouldn't do remotely anyway) | 23:32 |
| TPC | but you make it sound like its the slowest thing ever | 23:32 |
| fysa | NX is native fast *with* heavy graphics. | 23:33 |
| cbx33 | TPC just think you can do those graphically intensive things on NX | 23:33 |
| fysa | but seriously, I'm not here to sell this. | 23:33 |
| pc_speaker | VNX with mirroring driver is fast as hell on Windows. | 23:33 |
| cbx33 | fysa, tried it over openvpn? | 23:33 |
| TPC | anyway, this is going nowhere | 23:33 |
| TPC | we have different opinions | 23:33 |
| wumpus | well I'm sure even NX is slow over some connections :P | 23:34 |
| TPC | lets just accept that and talk about something else :P | 23:34 |
| wumpus | yeah | 23:34 |
| pc_speaker | </holywar> | 23:34 |
| alterego | Yeah, this conversation is boring and I'm not even in it. | 23:34 |
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| pc_speaker | And please, no more Android today too :) | 23:35 |
| czr | alterego, but NX uses client caching! | 23:35 |
| czr | you are now :-) | 23:35 |
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| TPC | hm.. now I have an up to date OS2008 scratchbox set up | 23:35 |
| TPC | what should I try to compile first? | 23:35 |
| fysa | X-Chat. | 23:35 |
| fysa | ;) | 23:35 |
| TPC | maybe I'll try to get maemo mapper running | 23:35 |
| alterego | Grrr .. libreadline isn't in OS2008 | 23:35 |
| wumpus | well, next time you claim your program is better than anything else on the planet, just come up with benchmarks and stats, then noone can deny :) | 23:35 |
| alterego | It's in the SDK but not in 2008 | 23:36 |
| wumpus | computing is science not religion | 23:36 |
| TPC | alterego, link statically :P | 23:36 |
| alterego | That's a stupid solution. | 23:36 |
| pc_speaker | Sometimes it is religion :))) | 23:36 |
| derf | j0! | 23:36 |
| pc_speaker | Stallman for example... | 23:36 |
| fysa | this is science. | 23:36 |
| TPC | or if you're using emacs :P | 23:36 |
| pc_speaker | :))) | 23:36 |
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| fysa | http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/8477/print | 23:37 |
| wumpus | pc_speaker: that's more like politics | 23:37 |
| alterego | Thinking about it. If I write a nice interactive ruby shell I wont need to use irb .. | 23:37 |
| alterego | So readline becomes redundant. | 23:38 |
| fysa | "Out I went and installed NX, and I immediately was hooked. The performance was in a completely different league from any other remote X or GUI connection I had seen on Linux." :P | 23:38 |
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| pc_speaker | Shit not again :) | 23:38 |
| wumpus | please stop fysa | 23:38 |
| fysa | "NX. It is the missing link in reducing traffic between the NX client and the server enough to facilitate a believable low-bandwidth remote GUI experience. It thus created a new X compression technology that is far better than plain ZLIB. " | 23:38 |
| alterego | I thought you were dropping this conversation .. | 23:38 |
| TPC | http://www.stallman.org/saint.html | 23:38 |
| pc_speaker | We finished with it. | 23:38 |
| alterego | fysa, please shut up. | 23:38 |
| pc_speaker | Science, huh? | 23:38 |
| pc_speaker | :))) | 23:38 |
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| wumpus | user blurbs are not performance numbers anyway | 23:38 |
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| fysa | of course not. | 23:39 |
| pc_speaker | Call the cops, he's still here. | 23:40 |
| p| | hum | 23:40 |
| p| | becomeroot and xterm are already included in os2008 | 23:41 |
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| pc_speaker | What's the problem with Skype in 2008? | 23:41 |
| pc_speaker | Says me that it's not ready or something... | 23:41 |
| TPC | pc_speaker, yep | 23:42 |
| TPC | pc_speaker, its not aviable for 2008 yet | 23:42 |
| TPC | not finished | 23:42 |
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| pc_speaker | Hm... | 23:42 |
| * alterego adds the maemo repository (not extras) to his application catalog | 23:42 | |
| p| | but SIP is included :) | 23:42 |
| TPC | should be out in a few months | 23:42 |
| pc_speaker | And Skype is not on N810 too? | 23:42 |
| alterego | I thought there was only one repository. Looks like there are seperate repos for SDK and device .. | 23:42 |
| fysa | SIP built-in without needing Gizmo, p? | 23:42 |
| p| | yes | 23:42 |
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| fysa | perfect. | 23:42 |
| pc_speaker | Life is cruel... No Skype for me... | 23:43 |
| pc_speaker | Hope it will be with cam support when it will arrive... | 23:43 |
| pc_speaker | Just as last Linux version... | 23:44 |
| p| | need xchat... | 23:44 |
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| penguinbait | I just changed my CPU speed on the fly | 23:45 |
| alterego | Good for you penguinbait | 23:45 |
| penguinbait | unfortunately, it was to lower it | 23:45 |
| penguinbait | hehe | 23:45 |
| penguinbait | it worked though | 23:45 |
| alterego | playing around in /sys ? | 23:45 |
| penguinbait | yes /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies | 23:45 |
| alterego | Yes, I know all about frequency scaling. | 23:45 |
| p| | how ? | 23:46 |
| p| | echo nnn > etc ? | 23:46 |
| penguinbait | echo powersave > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor | 23:46 |
| alterego | The plankton theme is somewhat broken when used on the device. | 23:46 |
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| alterego | I normally just echo min or max to it :) | 23:47 |
| visy | heh, what's up with retu and tahvo :) | 23:47 |
| penguinbait | conservative ondemand null powersave performance | 23:47 |
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| alterego | Bingo .. We have readline :) | 23:49 |
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| p| | thanks :) | 23:50 |
| kaltsi | in extras? | 23:50 |
| alterego | No, the maemo repository used for the SDK. | 23:51 |
| alterego | http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free | 23:51 |
| kaltsi | yep yep | 23:52 |
| penguinbait | well if anyone wants to play around, penguinbait.com/CPUFREQ.tar just untar from / | 23:52 |
| alterego | penguinbait, make something useful like a control status bar plugin :) | 23:52 |
| alterego | So you can dynamically set the frequency governer or select speed :) | 23:52 |
| p| | i vote for it ! :D | 23:53 |
| alterego | Mind you, there's not really much point on a 400Mhz arm for doing that .. | 23:54 |
| penguinbait | I still need a battery monitor for KDE | 23:54 |
| penguinbait | :) | 23:54 |
| alterego | Unless your battery is _really_ flat ;) | 23:54 |
| alterego | I can't believe you bother with KDE on the tablet. | 23:54 |
| *** bilboed has quit IRC | 23:54 | |
| *** dolske has joined #maemo | 23:54 | |
| penguinbait | thousands of people bother :) | 23:55 |
| bill20r3 | will it let me up my mhz to 400, under OS2007} | 23:55 |
| bill20r3 | ? | 23:55 |
| alterego | I doubt there are thousands of people using KDE on their internet tablets .. | 23:55 |
| penguinbait | using or installing, they downloaded thousands of copies, and I can not count other mirrors | 23:55 |
| alterego | It looks so rubbish though .. | 23:56 |
| penguinbait | KDE install instructions were translated into many langauges | 23:56 |
| penguinbait | Looks beautiful to me | 23:56 |
| p| | the null option what does ? | 23:56 |
| alterego | OS2008 is _so_ much prettier and practical. | 23:56 |
| *** simon_ has quit IRC | 23:56 | |
| penguinbait | didnt try | 23:56 |
| alterego | You're bias. | 23:56 |
| *** krau is now known as krau|away | 23:56 | |
| penguinbait | So | 23:57 |
| alterego | KDE is just like Windows. | 23:57 |
| kuzew | There is no performance issues with KDE on the tablets? | 23:57 |
| penguinbait | it still looks beautiful to me, as did windowmaker, XFCE, OPENBOX, AFTERSTEP and more | 23:57 |
| pc_speaker | Sounds scary... | 23:57 |
| alterego | So you can expect me to take your opinion seriously when you're obviously bias P | 23:57 |
| penguinbait | anything , anything, but matchbox | 23:57 |
| penguinbait | ugh! | 23:57 |
| penguinbait | Take my opinion however you like it, I dont get paid | 23:58 |
| penguinbait | its just my opinion | 23:58 |
| pc_speaker | KDE on 400MHz ARM is BSDM | 23:58 |
| cbx33 | one thing I noticed is that my n800 takes Sooooo long to boot now | 23:58 |
| penguinbait | Its not like your hurting my market share | 23:58 |
| alterego | Heh | 23:58 |
| p| | cbx33: we need to boot from mmc... | 23:58 |
| pc_speaker | Hm, I think my n800 boots faster with os2008... | 23:58 |
| cbx33 | it used to be ok | 23:58 |
| * alterego wonders what a full blown gnome desktop would look like on the device. | 23:59 | |
| penguinbait | I am booting from mmc on 2008, works great, Thanks Fanoush !! | 23:59 |
| cbx33 | but now it takes at least 30 seconds | 23:59 |
| cbx33 | before we get the loading bar | 23:59 |
| penguinbait | thats odd? | 23:59 |
| alterego | Well, lets see if I can get ruby-maemo 0.3.0 working properly on OS2008 | 23:59 |
| penguinbait | mine doesn't | 23:59 |
| p| | penguinbait: does it have updated the thing ?!? | 23:59 |
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