IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2007-10-28

macluvjayk, good00:00
timely_changeloganyone here have access to sardine?00:00
macluvjaydo I need to install that extra?00:00
alteregomacluvjay, not sure.00:00
alteregoProbably00:00
timely_changelogtko: hey, this one is *your* fault00:02
timely_changelogit is?00:02
* timely_changelog can't find that in the package00:02
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zerojayFCC confidentiality is up.00:09
_Monkeyi already had it that way, zerojay.00:09
zerojayCan we ban the stupid bot already?00:09
celesteh_Monkey, forget FCC confidentiality00:09
_Monkeycelesteh: I forgot fcc confidentiality00:09
alteregoYou can always ignore it zerojay00:09
celesteh_Monkey, FCC confidentiality is <reply>00:10
_MonkeyOK, celesteh.00:10
zerojayYeah, but it shouldn't be here anyways.00:10
alteregoWhy shouldn't it?00:10
celestehit's sometimes helpful00:10
* alterego agrees00:10
celestehanyway, when it says somethng stupid, you can remove that thing from it's DB00:10
zerojayIt's annoying as hell and it's quite rare that it says anything even remotely helpful... nothing that you wouldn't have found quicker with a google search.00:11
zerojayAt least it doesn't talk on its own.00:11
alteregoJust ignore it zerojay.00:11
celestehit often has the canonical answer and can be very handy for tracking down applications00:11
celesteh_Monkey, celesteh is a handsome devil00:12
_Monkey...but celesteh is back to celesteh's pre-red pill glory...00:12
celesteh_Monkey, forget celesteh00:12
_Monkeycelesteh: I forgot celesteh00:12
celesteh_Monkey, celesteh is a handsome devil00:12
_MonkeyOK, celesteh.00:12
celestehvanity00:12
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GeneralAntilles_Monkey is a joke.00:17
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alteregoHmm .. Rails on the N810 probably makes sense I guess ..00:52
raflerm.. why?00:52
alteregoThumb board00:52
rafl-v?00:52
alteregoSorry?00:53
raflcan you be more verbose about Thumb board?00:53
alteregoThe thumb board on the N810.00:53
alteregoHaving a dedicated hardware keyboard would make writing programs a lot easier on the actual device.00:54
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rafldid I get things wrong or isn't that related to rails at all?00:56
* rafl waits for his garage confirmation mail :-/00:57
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raflthis takes ages..01:03
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rafli guess normal bluetooth keyboards will work with this tablets just fine, won't they?01:05
timely_changelogwe test w/ microsoft bluetooth keyboards01:06
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rafli actually thought about getting something smaller and more portable, but i suppose they all work the same anyway01:09
rafljust starting hidd shoul do the trick..01:10
timely_changelogw/ usb there are two ways keyboards can work01:10
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timely_changelogi'm not sure if bt is the same01:10
raflwhich ways?01:10
timely_changelogbut one would hope there are a limited number of confused standards01:10
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rafli once used my mobile and my wii remote as hid devices via bluetooth on my desktop and it worked fairly well with bluez' hidd.01:13
raflmaemo also uses bluez, right?01:13
zerojayYes.01:13
timely_changelogOHCI and UCHI01:14
timely_changelogthat was fun01:14
timely_changelogyes, maemo uses bluez01:14
timely_changelogoh, cute, for usb2 they created EHCI01:15
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raflso everything should be fine if the keyboard behaves like a hid device01:16
rafland i'm not aware of any keyboard that doesn't01:16
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BlueGeneI like so much this irc channels, you can learn so many things :)01:21
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BlueGenebut it's saturday night, we must go out :P01:22
BlueGeneI read there is rumors about 3G N81001:23
ptmanwell now there certainly are01:23
BlueGenecool, we are like Apple !  :P01:24
BlueGenerumors and more rumors01:24
zerojayWhen do we start masturbating?01:24
raflwe can go out and still do irc! after all we have some very portable and irc capable devices :-)01:25
BlueGenerafl lol01:25
BlueGenezerojay first we must contract tunw.com domain and write so many stupid rumors on it01:26
BlueGene(the unofficial nokia weblog)01:26
ptmanHAMs consider it rude (at least some of them) to be on the radio under the influence01:26
ptmanthankfully, IRC doesn't suffer from that01:26
zerojayIt would be better to make a fake Apple rumors site.01:26
rafluhm.. wanted to register a project called perl at garage.m.o, but it tells me that unix name is already taken although the search doesn't bring up anything on that.. wtf?01:27
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ptmanzerojay: there probably is one already01:27
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zerojayptman: Probably, but it would be fun anyways as a social experiment.01:27
BlueGenezerojay another? google has an entire cluster lab only for this type of sites :O01:27
zerojaySee how far your rumor goes.01:27
raflgarage people around?01:27
BlueGenewho likes to be the new steve jobs?01:28
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rafli just want to have his salary01:30
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BlueGenezerojay can you give a spech with a gadget in one hand and your ego in the another hand?01:31
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zerojayHeh.01:32
BlueGeneplease remember that you said something about to start masturbating01:33
zerojayYeah, that would help to hold anything up.01:33
raflheh.. #maemo++01:35
BlueGeneit could be so cool. the next steve job's keynote will be steve jobs masturbate01:35
zerojayAnd there would be thousands of Apple fanboys fighting to be the one to catch his jizz as it flew off the stage.01:36
BlueGenewith his black sweater01:36
timely_changelografl: someone ried to register perl not too long ago01:38
timely_changelogspecifically, Oct 1901:39
timely_changelogit's currently pending01:39
timely_changelogRegistration Application:01:39
timely_changelogThe maemo community needs a central point for coordinating and documenting cross-compilation and testing of perl and CPAN modules.01:39
timely_changelogShort Description: Perl interpreter and CPAN extensions.01:39
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timely_changelografl: unfortunately, i'm not sure how much information i should be sharing01:40
timely_changelogso you'll have to ask ferenc or someone else for contact info01:41
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rafltimely_changelog: why isn't this project approved yet?01:44
raflferenc/01:45
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rafls!/!?!01:47
GeneralAntillesI don't understand people who want the tablet to be a phone.01:47
raflisn't it already? it has speakers, a microphone, a camera, bluetooth and wifi..01:48
raflall you need, imho.01:48
BlueGenelol01:48
GeneralAntillesi.e. +cellular modem01:48
GeneralAntilless/modem/radio01:48
raflthen I can't understand that either.. :-)01:48
timely_changelografl: well, i depends on what kind of battery life you expect out of your phone01:49
GeneralAntillesIf people want an iPhone, they ought to just buy an iPhone, not try and ruin my beautiful ITs.01:49
rafltimely_changelog: agreed01:49
timely_changelogmy old nokias from 2001/2002 had something like 1week idle01:49
rafltimely_changelog: who shall I try to contact wrt to information on that perl project?01:50
BlueGeneGeneralAntilles I think 3G conection is important01:50
GeneralAntillesI have a phone with 3g01:51
GeneralAntillesWorks great.01:51
BlueGeneIn Spain the problem isn't the phones, it's the price of the conection :P01:51
GeneralAntilles$20/month with AT&T here.01:52
BlueGenewe don't have offers like that01:52
raflGeneralAntilles: ditto in .de.01:52
|tbb1when do u guys think nokia pull out a wimax  it out, is it worth to  wait then buying a 810 now?01:53
shackan|tbb1: do you have wimax coverage in your area ?01:53
BlueGeneit's a good question :P01:54
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zerojayGeneralAntilles: $100 for 100MB in Canada.01:54
BlueGeneGeneralAntilles do you have some data restriction or something like that?01:55
zerojayiPhone = $800.01:55
GeneralAntillesYes, we've been over the finer points of your awesome data access up there, zerojay. :P01:55
|tbb1whats a wimax coverage? i was  thinking having a wimax router at home i can surf near some kilometres. am iam wrong#01:55
GeneralAntillesBlueGene, yes and no.01:55
GeneralAntillesI've heard reports of one01:55
GeneralAntillesbut I've never actually hit it.01:55
BlueGeneGeneralAntilles could you explain me your line " <GeneralAntilles> Yes, we've been over the finer points of your awesome data access up there, zerojay. :P", please?01:56
GeneralAntillesWe've discussed the crappy data access in Canada before.01:56
BlueGeneok, thanks, my English is no good01:57
BlueGenehere I can practise it01:57
GeneralAntilles:)01:57
BlueGeneI'd like that you correct me if I say something wrong :)01:57
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zerojay|tbb1: There are WiMax modems. Almost all the major ISPs here in Canada have a WiMax offering now.01:59
shackan|tbb1: I don't know if they're cheap enough for domestic use01:59
BlueGeneIn Spain, 60 euros/month 1Gb of data transfer02:00
BlueGeneGeneralAntilles you can install the emule in your iPhone :P02:01
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|tbb1anyone knows if the wlan chip on n810 the same as on 80002:01
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BlueGene<|tbb102:07
BlueGeneI don't know but I'm searching it02:07
zerojayThe FCC confidentiality stuff is up, so check there.02:08
|tbb1the what02:09
rafli wonder if the clutter library would run on maemo02:09
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zerojayrafl: Considering Karoliina is posting stuff about clutter over the last few days, I'd imagine.02:10
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BlueGeneI think it's the same chip02:10
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zerojayCheck thoughtfix's dmesg02:11
BlueGenegood idea02:11
GeneralAntillesMan, mediaserv is the best.02:11
raflzerojay: posting where?02:13
zerojayPlanet.02:13
BlueGenehttp://thoughtfix.com/tabletblog/dmesg.txt02:13
BlueGenehere02:13
BlueGeneand much more stuff02:14
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BlueGenehttp://tabletblog.com/2007/10/hacker-questions.html02:14
BlueGenethis is the entire psot02:14
BlueGenepost02:14
|tbb1k same driver cx3110x02:14
BlueGene[    0.726562] drivers/usb/net/rtl8150.c: rtl8150 based usb-ethernet driver v0.6.2 (2004/08/27)02:14
BlueGene[    0.726562] usbcore: registered new interface driver rtl815002:14
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BlueGeneit's the same driver but it can be not the same device02:16
timely_changelogfcc ...02:17
BlueGenehttp://tabletblog.com/2007/10/look-inside-n810.html#links02:17
BlueGenetimely_changelog I think that you say this link02:17
BlueGenehttp://tabletblog.com/2007/10/look-inside-n810.html#links02:18
zerojayNo.02:18
zerojayFCC.02:18
BlueGenethis?  https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=233495&fcc_id=%27LJPRX-44%2702:18
BlueGene|tbb1 why do you like to know it??02:22
|tbb1looking 4ward for an atheros based wlan chip ;)02:23
BlueGeneI can write in the mail list but I think that all people that can answer me is here02:24
raflzerojay: actually those blog posts don't say anything about maemo, do they?02:25
zerojayWell, they have to be showing up on Planet for a reason.02:26
BlueGenerafl It don't say anything about maemo but I think it's relacionated02:26
BlueGeneit's a dmesg!!! lol02:27
BlueGeneno maemo no dmesg02:27
raflzerojay: because his blog is listed on the planet? or is there any filtering done?02:27
* alterego debates stopping support for OS200602:28
GeneralAntillesDo it.02:28
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BlueGeneI think it's filtering02:28
GeneralAntillesAnybody who know's what they're doing should be using 2007HE, anyway.02:29
GeneralAntillesand 2008HE is all but confirmed.02:29
alteregoYeah02:29
alteregoBut what about the people that don't know what they're doing>02:30
alteregoYou know .. users ..02:30
raflso i apparently don't know what i'm doing :-/02:30
alterego;)02:30
pupnik_save the users!  think of the users!02:30
zerojayalterego: The same ones that wouldn't know how to install your program to begin with?02:30
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BlueGeneI think you're a bit unhappy with something/somebody....02:31
alterego:)02:31
raflin fact i haven't ever heared of that.. but otoh i got a tablet link three days ago.02:31
alteregotablet link?02:31
rafleh?02:32
alteregoYou said it.02:32
raflwhops02:33
BlueGenelol02:34
raflthat should have been 'like'02:34
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BlueGenewhat is otoh?02:34
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rafli'm new to this onscreen keyboard, you know? :-)02:34
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raflBlueGene: abbr. for on the other hand02:35
BlueGenethanks so much :)02:35
BlueGenerafl where are you from?02:35
GeneralAntillesN800 went down again02:35
GeneralAntilles$218 on buy02:35
raflBlueGene: .de02:35
BlueGeneyou're so near02:36
BlueGene20 euros with ryanair02:36
raflGeneralAntilles: got mine for 150 EUR02:36
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raflBlueGene: if there was an airport around here..02:36
alteregoN800 for 150 EUR?02:36
BlueGene150 euros = 218 dollars :P02:37
|tbb1rafl:  where u have buyed it, used or new02:37
BlueGeneI say ebay02:37
rafluh.. i was thinking eur..02:37
BlueGenerafl me too, but I remember that euro is so higher than dollar, then I caught my calc and .....02:38
rafl|tbb1: a friend bought a new one like 4 weeks ago and then wanted to have an ipod touch instead02:39
pupnikN800 in germany costs 1.7 times the n800 in usa (based on amazon prices)02:39
raflso its almost as new, but not quite02:39
|tbb1good 4 u02:39
pupnikWith these exchange rates, it is hard to see how nokia makes profit in USA02:39
sciboypupnik, Your nickname keeps popping up when ever I mention games.02:40
BlueGeneI suscribed me to the developer program, I didn't suscribe in the 770 and N800 developer programs02:40
alteregoHeh02:40
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alteregoI attempted to join the developer program for the 770 but got denied.02:40
alteregoDidn't bother with the N80002:41
raflpupnik: with europeans buying things in .us because they are way cheaper there? :-)02:41
pupnikoh sciboy there is a blender subproject for pdas02:41
sciboypupnik, Blenderpocket?02:41
pupnikforgot the name02:41
|tbb1whats blender02:41
_Monkeysomebody said blender was meant for desktop hardware. Not mobile hardware.02:41
BlueGenetwo friends of me joined the developer program for the 770 and they had the tablet but I don't know how, because I think they only send an email saying "I know to program, I'd like one"02:42
sciboy|tbb1, 3D application for everything including the kitchen sink.02:42
pupnikit's a 3d modeleing program02:42
sciboy|tbb1, http://www.blender.org02:42
alteregoInteresting.02:43
alteregoI have a feeling I got denied because I've never been a part of any open source project.02:43
BlueGeneI have my hope on the developer program :)02:43
GeneralAntillesWhy in the world would anybody want to use Blender on a PDA? :\02:43
|tbb14 me it dont make sense running it on a  tablet02:43
BlueGenealterego like my friends :P02:43
alteregoHopefully ruby-maemo will tip the scales in my favour and I'll get accepted into the next one :)02:44
sciboy|tbb1, 4 me, it features a very easy to use game engine that would allow me to really lay back and focus on content.02:44
alteregoIt would certainly be nice to write some location aware apps.02:44
sciboyGeneralAntilles, -> Game engine <-02:45
BlueGeneI'd like to develop some wifi and gps applications02:45
zerojayalterego: If you're visible in the community, I don't see how you wouldn't get accepted.02:45
zerojay500 discounts..02:45
|tbb1sciboy: way 2 go02:45
pupnikI doubt the blender game engine is usable on a tablet02:45
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BlueGenebut It be cool if I have the tablet lol02:45
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alteregoI dunno, 500 may seem like a lot but I don't really know the scale of the maemo community.02:46
sciboypupnik, In what way?02:46
pupnikperformance02:46
alteregoSure it seems quite small but nokia have to be making something from them if they're continuing the development of the platform ..02:47
zerojayI wouldn't say there are that many active.02:47
* timely_changelog grumbles02:47
sciboypupnik, I see no reason why it wouldn't be able to do super-low-poly work on non-float software rendering, the physics is more of a concern but what ever.02:48
zerojayI'd imagine you'd see the top bloggers get them.. the same ones that were invited to the latest shindig.. maybe the top 10 or 20 (known, quality) posters on ITT, maybe 10 or 20 most active/helpful bugzilla users...02:48
* timely_changelog kicks riku for poor spelling02:48
zerojaytimely_changelog: Found another text bug?02:48
sciboypupnik, Oh and that's assuming it's pixel doubled.02:48
alteregoIt seemed like they were orienting the program at new comers too.02:49
alteregoI suppose I'm actually a new comer :)02:49
alteregoI've only had my tablet for about 2 months.02:49
zerojayWell, being a dev and all sure should help.02:49
raflaww.. dropbear-client sessions always seem to hang after a short period of being idle..02:49
alteregoMeh, dropbear sucks :P02:50
raflwhat might be wrong here?02:50
alteregoopenssh ftw02:50
raflshall i use openssh?02:50
alteregoIf you like.02:50
alteregoIt's certainly more functional.02:50
raflaww.. i should get faster on this onscreen keyboard.. :-)02:50
raflaye.. will try openssh-client now.02:51
alteregoIf you install the server you can get root access and use sshfs like all the cool kids.02:52
alteregoI'll tell you what else is cool. SSH'ing to you development machine, sshfs mounting your tablet and developing programs, compiling them and testing them in the bath.02:53
sciboypupnik, The game logic would have to be kept under close scrutiny and modularisation but really, none of that would get in the way of game dev.02:53
rafli did get root access, but i used dropbear-server.02:54
alteregosciboy, have you tried talking to the guy that's been working on the port?02:54
sciboyI assume there is no port right now.02:54
alteregoWhat about the person that wrote the forum post saying he'd got it working on his tablet?02:55
raflalterego: everything you can do in the bath with your tablet is cool!02:55
sciboyThat's already two years old, only a test and he didn't do much to get it working.02:55
alterego:)02:56
alteregoThat's probably a good thing ..02:56
raflalso.. have we started masturbating yet?02:56
sciboyYes it is.02:56
BlueGenethree times!02:56
alteregoSo why don't you try and get it working rafl?02:56
sciboyrafl, Since when did we ever stop?02:56
* rafl tries to catch up02:57
BlueGenelol02:57
raflalterego: i guess i do have it working already.02:58
sciboyThe opengl rendering I have no doubt would be fine, but when you start taxing on the demands of game logic and physics, I'm not sure 400mhz will do it without an FPU.02:58
alteregoSorry rafl, I meant sciboy ;)02:58
BlueGenethis masturbating party is remembering me that my girlfriend will go to Poland tomorrow for a week02:58
alteregoHeh02:59
sciboyalterego, Because I wouldn't be able to maintain a port.02:59
alteregoWhy not?02:59
BlueGeneme too, I must finish my computer engineer degree in december02:59
sciboyNo interest or patience, not a programmer.03:00
BlueGeneI'm a programmer :)03:00
alteregoBut you expect someone else to do it for you? Seriously, it's probably not that a greater task.03:00
sciboyI'm just an animator looking for an engine to work with so I can focus on content.03:00
alteregoIf you get somewhere with it I'd be happy to take on and maintain the project.03:00
BlueGenealterego what is this project?03:01
alteregoBlender 3D modeller and game SDK on maemo03:01
sciboyBlueGene, Just to see whether a blender ge port could work under major performance restrictions.03:01
raflso i got some perl ports working, but building them requires some modifications to the scratchbox environment. is that fine or do you maemo people have things link FTBFS bugs like we debian people do?03:02
sciboyBlueGene, So I can actually stop worrying about code and just crank out games on an easy to use engine.03:02
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alteregorafl, what kind of modifications?03:02
BlueGeneI don't like this kind of applicatios, this is the problem :P03:02
alteregorafl, you're probably also best asking on the mailing list for something like FTBFS.03:02
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raflalterego: two symlinks in /usr and some env vars which scratchbox fucks up.03:03
BlueGeneI think we must port MatLab :P03:03
raflBlueGene: that'd be cool, indeed.03:04
alteregorafl, as long as it runs on the device without any odd modifications it should be fine.03:04
alteregoThough, you should probably submit a bug report too.03:04
BlueGenerafl I think MathWorks must say something about it :P03:04
sciboyBlueGene, If it did work I got lots of game designs I'd be happy to produce for it.03:04
alteregoFor the SDK.03:04
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raflalterego: i'm fairly sure it would as it doesn't have all those scratchbox hacks, but i really don't want to try that.03:05
BlueGenerafl but R or octave could be ported, it's a nice idea03:05
raflalterego: i don't have infinite time, you know? :-)03:06
alteregoYou don't want to try it on the device?03:06
rafldo the tablets have an fpu?03:06
alteregoNo03:06
raflalterego: right. compiling perl the way i do takes a while.03:07
alteregoI don't mean compile it on the device ..03:07
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raflalterego: on recent laptop hardware, that is.03:07
alteregoI mean as long as your packages work on the device.03:07
rafloh..03:07
alteregoIt doesn't matter how you screw around with your SDK to get your package working.03:07
alteregoBut if it seems like there's something wrong with scratchbox or the rootstrap etc. Then you should definitely file a bug report.03:08
rafldoesn't that suck as you can't apt-get source and debuild?03:08
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BlueGeneon monday I will start a mobile devices developing course in C# with visual studio 200503:09
BlueGeneI'm so excited!!!03:09
zerojayUm...03:09
alteregoSounds interesting03:09
zerojayMost mobile devices use Java.03:09
pupnikare you bringing a shotgun?03:09
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raflit's mostly caused by the perl shipped with the perl devkit. i don't really know where to fix this, though.03:09
raflBlueGene: you fail!03:10
alteregoThat sounds like a scratchbox isue.03:10
BlueGenerafl why?!03:10
raflBlueGene: visual anything? come on..03:10
BlueGenexDDDDDD03:10
raflalterego: or a perl issue03:10
pupnikrafl: what is the problem03:11
raflalterego: i'd blame the former, but,i'm not entirely sure.03:11
BlueGenerafl you must know your enemy to hate him03:11
pupnikyou are missing perl things in scratchbox?03:11
alteregoRight03:12
raflpupnik: missing /bin/pwd and /usr/bin/perl and weird $PATH and $PER5LIB.03:12
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BlueGenethin I will port mono and monodevelop to maemo platform :P03:12
alteregoWeird03:12
BlueGeneand you can develop with C# in the bath!!!!03:13
raflsymlinking the two paths.and sanatising those env vars fixes it.03:13
alteregoI think someone is already working on mono03:13
alteregoAnd I'd rather develop in Ruby than C#03:13
alteregoHell .. I'd rather develop in Python than C#03:13
raflyeah - i've seen several mono related maemo things.03:13
BlueGeneC# is the microsoft's Java :P03:13
pupnikmy scratchbox has /bin/pwd and /bin/perl03:13
alteregoBlueGene, I know, I don't like Java much either.03:14
BlueGenejava is so good programming language03:14
raflpupnik: mine didn't. freshly installed from latest packages03:14
alteregoI disagree.03:14
BlueGeneand you can compile it without bitecodes to have much more speedly applications03:14
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alteregoJava could have been so much better.03:15
pupnikapt-cache search perl shows among others, perl-base, perl, perl-modules03:15
alteregoIf it had syntax like Ruby03:15
raflpupnik: but i can try to reproduce tomorrow if you,want me to.03:15
BlueGenehow?03:15
zerojayJava is the worst thing to put on a mobile device... made no sense.03:15
alteregozerojay, it makes perfect sense. It works on all the varying hardware that is around.03:15
raflpupnik: real packages or fake packages?03:15
BlueGenewhy?03:15
alteregoThat's one good use I can see for Java ..03:16
BlueGenewhen? lol03:16
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zerojayalterego: Only because it was put on all of them.03:16
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zerojayJust about anything else would have been better on such a limited resource platform.03:17
alteregoThere was/is literally no better alternative for mobile handset development,03:17
BlueGeneI like so much Java, C# and C++03:17
alteregoIf you want to target the entire market.03:17
zerojayalterego: Java isn't the entire market.03:17
pupniklooks real to me rafl - I don't know what your prob is, but if you want me to run any commands i can do that for you (i.e. apt-cache show or such)03:17
alteregoBlueGene, then you're the opposite of me :P03:17
alteregozerojay, I  was exaggerating.03:17
BlueGenethe entire market are the users, the users do not matter what the language program you're using03:18
alteregoBut seriously, Java on mobile handsets is the best thing to happen to them.03:18
rafli have an application where it doesn't make sense to turn the display brightness down. is there an api which allows me to tell maemo not to do that?03:18
zerojayI do mobile development professionally.. and putting Java on cell phones was just about the worst idea anyone could have.03:18
alteregoI think you're missing the point BlueGene Java isn't a great language, it's not even that good.03:18
alteregozerojay, whatever ..03:18
alteregozerojay, what would you prefer?03:18
shackanand most ARM processors are optimized to run java bytecode natively, so it supposedly runs better than mono03:19
zerojayAnything else. Literally ANYTHING else.03:19
BlueGenealterego why Java is a goof language?03:19
zerojayBREW isn't bad.03:19
alteregozerojay, there is nothing else!03:19
raflpupnik: dpkg -l perl-base03:19
zerojayalterego: Head in the sand?03:19
shackanzerojay: have you ever developed on BREW ?03:19
zerojayshackan: Yes.03:19
zerojayI work for a cell phone gaming company.03:19
shackanomg03:19
zerojayJava and BREW is what we do.03:19
zerojayNot that BREW is all that great anyways...03:20
zerojayThe one and only thing Java gives us is the portability... but that's not even really true.03:20
shackanwell, it's not so bad if you have a company who pays for signing certificates and stuff :)03:20
zerojaySo many different phones have different JVMs.03:20
zerojayAll of them with their own bugs.03:21
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alteregoBlueGene, it's not very flexible. Has barely any introspective (reflection) capabilities. It's not very dynamic.03:21
pupnikii  perl-base         5.8.3-3osso4      The Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister03:21
shackanhahahahaha, sooo true!03:21
zerojayGot a Samsung that thinks a Rect with a 1 pixel border means "1 pixel border on the left and right sides and 0 border on top and bottom".03:21
shackanzerojay: unrelated, but do you do OpenglES stuff too ?03:21
zerojayshackan: Can't say we do.03:21
raflzerojay: my condolence03:21
zerojaybut we are spreading out into other areas.03:21
alteregoI'll give it credit, it's cleaner than C++03:22
zerojayWhich I can't talk about.. but I'm sure anyone could guess.03:22
BlueGenealterego could you explain this?03:22
raflpupnik: erm.. how did you create that target?03:22
zerojayalterego: Not really. It's also slow as shit.03:22
shackanzerojay: SNAP and N-Gage ? :)03:22
alteregozerojay, maybe on the hardware you use ..03:22
zerojayalterego: 500+ phones.03:22
alteregozerojay, exactly ..03:22
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zerojayshackan: No, think further out.03:22
pupnikFilename: pool/herring/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.3-3osso4_armel.deb03:23
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shackanzerojay: I'm in deep water then...03:23
raflherring?03:23
lopzhola03:23
pupnikdeb http://repository.maemo.org/ herring main03:23
rafl_Monkey: where are you when i need you?03:23
_Monkeybugger all, i dunno, rafl03:23
BlueGenelopz hola03:23
pupnikrafl try repository search03:24
pupnikrepositories?03:24
lopzhey BlueGene :P03:24
_Monkeyrepositories is probably http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories  and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php03:24
raflpupnik: what does herring stand for?03:24
lopzBlueGene, speak spanish ?03:24
BlueGenelopz que remedio, soy de Leon03:24
raflpupnik: some branch? something unofficial?03:24
zerojayThe whole idea behind Java on phones is the idea that you could take the same executable and run it anywhere. But that's not true in practice. That's why for 200 phones, we have about 120 different builds.03:24
alteregorafl, it doesn't _stand_ for anything it's a tag03:24
lopzBlueGene, ah vale, y tienes la n800 ?03:24
rafli see03:24
zerojayBREW in the US isn't very exciting, but the stuff going on in Korea with BREW is nuts.03:25
pupniklike gregale, mistral03:25
celestehthere's another idea behind java on phones, and that's the sandbox03:25
celestehusers can't get at thw hardware03:25
BlueGenelopz no, pero tu nick me suena mucho03:25
zerojaycelesteh: Also not true in practice.03:25
lopzBlueGene, mm.. por que ? xD03:25
BlueGeneen q canales sueles andar por el hispano?03:25
lopzBlueGene, entonces tienes la 770 ?03:25
rafli haven't seen any tagged debian repository yet.. although i'm developing denian.03:25
lopzBlueGene, en ninguno, solo freenode :)03:25
BlueGenelopz no, no tengo ninguna03:25
celestehtheoretically a user with C or something could break telecom laws03:25
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BlueGenelopz y has estado metido en algun lug de linux o algo asi?03:26
celestehjava is such a lovely theory.  really.03:26
zerojayI understand the choice when it was made.. it's just too bad it didn't work out.03:26
BlueGenewell!! I think we have a new great flame!!!!!! ;P03:26
alteregoIf it was a nicer language .. It would be awesome.03:26
zerojayIf they all used the same JVM, it would be awesome.03:26
BlueGenezerojay this is impossible03:27
zerojayBlueGene: It is now.03:27
lopzBlueGene, hazme un whois y mira xD03:27
zerojayWasn't back when they started.03:27
BlueGenelopz pues sabe dios de q te conozco03:28
zerojayGot the LG CU920... a bit of a problem with it.03:28
BlueGenepero me suenas fijo03:28
BlueGeneyo antes usaba el nick de DHUNCAN03:28
zerojayIt's sort of like the iphone. No buttons.. entire screen.. software keyboard.03:28
zerojayProblem.. there's no way for us to use it in Java.03:28
zerojaySo we either write our own virtual keyboard, or abandon the phone.03:29
alteregoHahah03:29
BlueGenezerojay the same JVM but each mobile phone has its peculiarities03:29
zerojayBlueGene: Wrong. Not the same JVM.03:29
raflalterego: openssh gives me the same issue, except it just hangs for a while and doesn't just disconnect03:29
zerojayOtherwise, they would all leak memory like those fucking Nokia 3650/7650s do.03:29
lopzBlueGene, pues no lo sé, igual aqui paro siempre xD03:29
alteregorafl, maybe it's a server configuration issue then.03:29
BlueGeneaqui nos ves, midiendonos las pollas a ver q lenguaje de programacion es mejor.....03:30
alteregorafl, or your wireless connection is turning off after being idle for so long03:30
BlueGenelo q hace el aburrimiento03:30
alteregoCheck your connection settings.03:30
zerojayrafl: You can have ssh send keep alive packets.03:30
BlueGenelopz tu de donde eres??03:30
raflalterego: but my laptop, which is connected to the same host and screen session over the same route doesn't have those problems.03:30
lopzBlueGene, Santa Cruz, y tu ?03:30
BlueGeneLeon03:30
BlueGeneal rico frio del norte, oiga!03:31
alteregorafl, check the connection settings, specifically the idle timeout.03:31
lopzOkko_, que haces aqui ?03:31
BlueGeney q qrias preguntar en el canal?03:31
lopzBlueGene, nada, siempre entro :)03:31
BlueGeneyo entre hoy por primera vez03:31
lopzcuando tengo un problema suele preguntar, pero rar vez , y tu ?03:31
BlueGenese aprenden muchas cosas03:31
raflzerojay: it's not that i've been idle, but i'll investigate into this.03:31
lopzBlueGene, si, pero tienes algun cacharo con mamemo ?03:31
BlueGenehasta ahora solo estaba suscrio a la lista d desarollo03:31
lopzmaemo*03:31
raflalterego: it's 003:31
zerojayrafl: It might help. Worth a shot.03:31
BlueGenelopz no pero estamos en ello03:32
raflalterego: i.e. turned off.03:32
alterego0?03:32
alteregoIt shouldn't go to 003:32
alteregoIt should be "unlimited"03:32
BlueGeney tu? tienes algun trasnto de estos?03:32
alterego"Connection Manager" -> (menu) "tools" -> "Connectivity Settings" -> "Idle times"03:33
raflright. i didn't check it right now but i remembered i set it to "no idle timeout"03:33
lopzBlueGene, si, la n80003:34
lopzesta a mi lado xD03:34
BlueGenea mi me molaria pillar la 810 pero no se yo si se me arreglara03:34
BlueGenecomo pillaste la tuya?03:34
rafloh.. hi Fatal!03:35
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raflis there anything i can do about a bad quality of the bui;tin camera on the n800?03:38
timely_changeloglower your expectations03:38
raflaye03:38
alteregoHeh03:38
timely_changelogwith sufficiently lowered expecations, you should not be disappointed03:39
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raflcan i connect arbitrary devices to the usb port?03:39
timely_changelogas long as they're hosts03:39
alteregoSure, if you enable USB OTG host mode.03:39
raflwell.. in a way where the devices actually work..03:39
raflhrm..03:40
timely_changelogsince the n800 is considered a dummy mass storage device typically03:40
rafltoo bad03:40
alteregoDevices that need power must be powered somehow.03:40
raflusb keyboard would have been cool.03:40
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timely_changelogif you don't  mind unsupported, things are possible03:40
timely_changelogit's only hardware+software...03:40
rafli actually do mind03:40
raflbut i'll give it a try when i have infinite time.03:41
alteregotime is infinite03:41
alteregoRelatively infinite ..03:42
Quinlan^Thats deep.03:42
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raflmine isn't03:43
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BlueGenedoes somebody knows visual paradigm?03:44
raflanyone running zsh on maemo?03:45
* timely_changelog grins03:45
timely_changelogglimpseindex -R is my friend03:45
lopzBlueGene, la 810 ? ya hay esa ? :S03:45
BlueGenecomo pillaste la tuya?03:46
lopzme la trajeron de EEUU03:46
lopznoooooooooooooooo!!!03:47
lopzBlueGene, tio, me pillo la N81003:48
lopzno sabia que ya estaba a la venta xD03:48
celestehwow.  i knew i should have taken spanish in high school03:48
BlueGenelol03:48
timely_changelogceelesteh: personally, i regret not having taken french in high school03:48
timely_changelogbut, that's because i moved to europe03:48
alteregoHeh03:49
celestehheh, me too03:49
zerojayI was forced to learn it in high school, which meant I didn't learn it.03:49
raflcelesteh: shouldn't they have taken english?03:49
celestehi took german and i can still understand a lot of it.  but i've lived in france, the netherlands and england.  i might never get to germany03:49
zerojayI learned more in the last two years than I did all through school.03:49
timely_changelografl: having visited various european countries03:49
rene4jazzcan I install libboost-dev debian testing package inside maemo gregale?03:49
timely_changelogjust because people take English doesn't mean they can use it03:49
celestehenglish is one of the most difficult languages to learn.03:50
BlueGeneI don't think so03:50
rafltimely_changelog: i guess i pretty much prove your point.03:50
celestehit's sort of obnoxious to expect everybody else on earth to have to spend years studying may native language03:50
lopzBlueGene, me pillo la n810 tio, me pongo al caso :)03:50
BlueGenelops pues a ver de donde la sacas, xq aun no ha salido a la venta03:50
celestehmi lernis esperanton, sed mi forgesis tuton03:51
BlueGeneNobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!!!!!03:51
celestehhahaha!03:51
BlueGenelopz pues a ver de donde la sacas, xq aun no ha salido a la venta03:51
zerojayNobody expects Japanese Herpes either.03:51
celestehum.  ew.03:51
zerojaySorry. I felt the need to match up with BlueGene's completely random sentence. ;)03:52
rene4jazzun minuto por favor: Can I install a debian testing package inside maemo gregale?03:52
timely_changelogyou succeeded03:52
lopzBlueGene, ni en EEUU ?03:52
BlueGeneno03:53
BlueGenemediados de noviembre03:53
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BlueGenezerojay :P03:53
BlueGenerene4jazz solo sabes decir eso? :P03:53
lopzBlueGene, joder, espero que baje un pco el precio03:54
BlueGenemejor03:54
BlueGene480 euros xD03:54
rene4jazzno sé decir otras cosas, pero éso es una duda que tengo ahora ;)03:54
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BlueGenede donde eres??03:54
rene4jazzcubano03:54
BlueGeneme ha dado clases de microsoft wpf las dos ultimas semanas un cubano llamado octavio03:55
timely_changelogis an email w/ only 3 letters in it "spam"?03:55
rene4jazznice03:55
lopzBlueGene, a esperar no queda mas03:55
zerojaytimely_changelog: Are the 3 letters "yes"?03:55
BlueGenerene4jazz un cachondo mental :P03:55
timely_changelogMsD03:55
raflaw.. i have a shiny device with a touchscreen now and i already start using it like any other computer.. with the commandline :-/03:55
BlueGenelopz pues si03:55
zerojaytimely_changelog: Spam.03:56
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BlueGeneyo me piro para la cama q estoy reventado!!!!!!!!!03:56
BlueGeneI go to bed, I'm so tired03:56
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BlueGenegood night to all :)03:56
BlueGenezerojay be careful with the Spanish Inquisition03:56
lopzbye BlueGene good look03:56
zerojayzerojay: Watch out for Antarctic assblasters.03:56
BlueGenelopz tu sabes lo que es un assblaster??03:58
zerojaylol03:58
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BlueGenezerojay what is an assblaster??03:58
lopzBlueGene, no, que es ?03:58
raflyou'll get to know those soon enough.03:59
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BlueGenecreo que algo malo, no se xq me da03:59
sixpenceAlright!03:59
sixpenceI sold my n770 and mustered up the cash for an n80003:59
zerojayBlueGene: Just kidding around. It's nothing, man. Sleep well.03:59
sixpenceNow the big question...03:59
sixpenceDo I buy it?!03:59
raflsixpence: why not an n810?03:59
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sixpencerafl: I dunno maybe a TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR DIFFERENCE?!03:00
BlueGenezerojay I think it's something bad03:00
GeneralAntillesBuy.com is under $22003:00
raflsixpence: i wouldn't know. i have an n800 and i'm quite happy with it.03:00
zerojayBlueGene: It was just a stupid joke.. nothing meant against you whatsoever. Just another random two words.03:01
sixpenceWell.03:01
lopzxD03:01
sixpenceLooking at the n810 and n800 side by side. What's the main difference? GPS? I don't own a car. Youtube works on both.03:01
sixpenceBoth have a camera..03:01
sixpenceI don't really like the slider keyboard anyway..03:01
timely_changelogthe screen03:01
timely_changelogdo you walk around in the sun03:01
timely_changelogi.e. do you live somewhere outside of finland?03:01
doublecthe n810 is smaller too from the pics03:01
sixpencetimely_changelog: Nah.03:01
sixpenceI live in Ontario03:02
sixpencePlus03:02
timely_changelogit's slightly smaller03:02
sixpenceI won't be taking it outside in the Sun.03:02
GeneralAntillesand heavier.03:02
BlueGenebut you can close your window's bath, no sun then03:02
timely_changelogbecause they moved the menu/humb keys into the keyboard03:02
timely_changelogthat's actually fairly annoying ime03:02
rene4jazzcan I install debian testing packages inside maemo gregale?03:02
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timely_changelogsince i really do use the menu key03:02
BlueGeneuno que se va pra la cama03:02
* timely_changelog can live w/o the other keys03:02
BlueGenerene4jazz creo q tienes algo en el wiki de maemo03:02
BlueGeneale, un besin03:03
BlueGenezerojay night :)03:03
timely_changeloganyway, if you don't need the screen or the keyboard, get the n80003:03
rene4jazzok, lo voy a buscar03:03
BlueGenelopz nos vemos....03:03
timely_changelogand flash w/ itos2008 when it arrives03:03
lopzadiós BlueGene03:03
raflisn't the nseries intended to be used,in baths only anyway?03:03
timely_changeloghi doublce03:03
lopzBlueGene, me dejaste con la n810 xD03:03
timely_changelogblah03:03
doublechi timely_changelog03:03
BlueGenejodete xD03:03
* timely_changelog should sleep instead of typing in the dark03:03
doublechehe03:04
BlueGeneq yo no tengo ni una ni otra03:04
timely_changelogtonight i hope to finish this changelog03:04
timely_changelogit's haunted me for over a week03:04
timely_changelogi think i've decided to move all the negatives into bugs though :)03:04
timely_changelogmuch better than in a changelog03:04
timely_changelogoh03:04
BlueGenebye bye....03:04
timely_changelogdoublec: fwiw, there's a sardine xref up03:04
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lopzBlueGene, pero yo ahora la quiero pues03:04
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zerojaytimely_changelog: The weird first attempt at scrolling bug brings you back to the top of the page is fixed?03:05
timely_changelogzerojay: i believe we properly resolve bugs in bugs.maemo when we fix them03:06
timely_changelogso if you were a good boy and filed it :)03:06
timely_changelog.. you wouldn't have to ask me :)03:06
raflhow much traffic do the -users and -devel lists have?03:06
timely_changelogenough that i refuse to subscribe to either :)03:06
timely_changelogdoublec: of course, browser is http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/03:07
zerojayI'll look.. but there's a lot of bugs that are actually fixed that don't get marked as fixed in Bugzilla or not until much later.03:07
timely_changelogso you have both :)03:07
rafltimely_changelog: what are you changelogging for?03:07
timely_changelografl: microb of course03:07
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timely_changelogzerojay: if you want to look through my latest incomplete draft...03:08
zerojaytimely_changelog: Sure.03:08
rafltimely_changelog: where from should i know? usung maemo for just a few days now..03:08
timely_changelog_monkey timely?03:09
_Monkeytimely_changelog: i don't know03:09
timely_changelog_monkey timeless?03:09
_Monkeybugger all, i dunno, timely_changelog03:09
* timely_changelog sighs03:09
timely_changeloguseless bot03:09
zerojaylol03:09
timely_changeloghttp://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/4/03:09
timely_changelogis the beta changelog for reference03:10
timely_changeloghe changelog is a delta agains the release there03:10
timely_changelogand as you can see, my 't' key does't really work03:10
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timely_changelogso if you see 'wo' i's probably a typo for 203:10
timely_changeloghe stuff in <pre> isn' done yet03:11
* rafl likes the name03:11
timely_changelogwhich name?03:11
zerojayLooks like a good list to me.03:11
rene4jazzBlueGene: do you have the maemo wiki link?, I search for it, and did not find anything about installing debian packages03:12
raflalthough ~8mb aren't too micro.03:12
rafltimely_changelog: microb.03:12
_Monkeymicrob is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)03:12
rafl_Monkey--03:13
_Monkeyrafl: i'm not following you...03:13
raflthought so03:13
timely_changelog_monkey: _monkey-- is <reply> ~nobody likes me, everybody hates me, ...~03:14
timely_changelog_monkey--03:14
_Monkeytimely_changelog: what?03:14
* rafl gives it a try03:14
timely_changelogbah03:14
rafl_Monkey-- # again03:14
_Monkeyrafl: i'm not following you...03:14
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* rafl wants his urxvt on maemo03:18
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rafldammit.. this n800 is too slow to play my favourite video podcast :-/03:30
sixpenceHow is youtube on the n800?03:31
rafli'll give it a try.03:33
zerojayWorks well enough for me usually.. just slightly lower framerate.. probably will be better in IT2008 though with the bump up in speed.03:35
raflnot all that good03:35
pupnikthoughtfix showed youtube on the N810 - it was better03:36
pupnikbut a youtube frontend that downloads and launches mplayer will always be smooth03:36
raflzerojay: hows the os involved in youtube speed? better flash plugin? faster browser? less overall overhead?03:37
timely_changelografl: "os" is sorta a useless term03:37
timely_changelogbetween ios2007 and itos2008, the clock speed changed03:37
rafltimely_changelog: i agree03:37
timely_changelogin 2007 i was always fixed at less than max03:37
zerojayrafl: The N800 is underclocked to 330mhz.. and supposedly will be allowed to run fullspeed in IT2008 because of improved power management.03:37
timely_changelogin 2008, it's variable, and will change dynamically, up to full speed03:38
zerojay400mhz, I believe.03:38
rafli see03:38
timely_changelogyes03:38
raflthat sounds good03:38
zerojaySame thing Sony did with the PSP.03:38
timely_changelogwell, it really depends03:38
raflwhy isn't it available for the n800 already?03:38
timely_changeloghey're still rying to pick the final flash image for the release03:39
zerojayBecause it's probably in the final stages of testing/approval.03:39
pupnikGeneralAntilles: your post on N900 features should be gospel :) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87569&postcount=603:39
raflthought it would be shipped on the n810 already03:39
timely_changelogmy mailbox lists 2 official final images for itos200803:39
zerojayrafl: It will be.03:39
rafli see03:39
timely_changelogthere's supposed o be only one <g>03:39
GeneralAntillesHa, thanks, pupnik. :)03:39
timely_changelogplease don't ask me how they managed to do hat03:39
timely_changelogor when they expect to finalize it03:40
timely_changelogi'm pretty sure they're overdue :)03:40
timely_changelogfwiw, browser team actually does care, but not because there are browser bugs we could get fixed (we can't)03:40
timely_changelogand not between the two images in question (They don't help us)03:40
timely_changelogbut because there are bugs in media player that we wan fixed03:40
zerojayGood.03:41
timely_changelog(for which fixes seem in hand, but not yet in candidate images)03:41
timely_changelogwhich means i really don't care03:41
zerojayI know I saw four of my media player bugs fixed a few days ago.03:41
timely_changelogwow03:41
zerojayA nice surprise to wake up to.03:41
timely_changelogzerojay: speaking of which03:42
timely_changelogif you could help out by setting targetmilestones to 4.0 (or whichever makes sense) on FIXED bugs, that'd be great :)03:42
* rafl goes to bed03:43
zerojaytimely_changelog: Sure, but I don't think I have the ability to do so. Let me check.03:43
zerojayAh, indeed I do.03:44
zerojaytimely_changelog: Change it to 4.0 on newly fixed bugs then?03:45
_Monkeyzerojay: that doesn't look right03:45
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zerojayThe four I mentioned?03:45
timely_changelogyes03:45
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timely_changelogas long as they indicae it'll be fixed for 2008 and not some service release03:45
zerojayOkay.03:46
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Rask330Hm.  The N800's not too hot on the youtube videos.  :<04:06
pupnikthe power of our thumbs will compel you04:07
Rask330Thumbs?04:08
GeneralAntillesHa04:08
pupnik(buttons for both thumbs)04:08
pupnikRask330: i think there are media players for the tablet that download vids then play them in mplayer04:09
Rask330Hm.  Can you link me? :o04:09
pupniki forgot - is it ukmp/04:09
GeneralAntillesIt's not UKMP, but it's from the same people/person.04:10
pupnikhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26UXJOTkTk GeneralAntilles04:11
pupnikthumb want04:11
GeneralAntillesYeah, just saw that on ITT.04:11
GeneralAntilleslooks cool.04:11
pupnikthumb *will* get04:11
GeneralAntillesI think it's probably a little big to be realistically put into an IT.04:12
pupnikthere are smaller versions too04:12
pupnikbut that's the basic idea04:12
GeneralAntillesMake for a cool scrolling system.04:12
GeneralAntillesHehe, IT = new N-Gage04:13
GeneralAntillesI like the idea.04:13
pupniki'm betting it won't happen though.  so the other option is the craigulator, and putting pda-apps on it04:13
pupnikcraigulator will probably get openembedded.  Will have all the controls i want, and be omap 3430 + GL04:15
pupnikthe tablets will probably not want to go with buttons on both sides, for marketing/image reasons04:16
GeneralAntillesWhich is stupid04:16
GeneralAntillesand too bad04:16
pupniki dunno...04:16
pupniki can imagine a lot of people with money, who won't like a device with buttons for both thumbs04:17
GeneralAntillesI buy devices for what they do and how functional they are, not for image. :\04:17
GeneralAntillesbuttons for both thumbs . . . makes me think of thumbboards and laugh.04:19
pupnikWell at least nokia did a great thing and gave us the N810 - a different hardware layout for the N80004:25
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sixpenceSo how do you all think the n800 will handle the os 2008?"05:04
timely_changelogsince it's equivalen to the n810 wrt hardware, about as well as the n81005:05
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sixpenceReally?05:05
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sixpenceThe processor and ram is exactly equivilent?05:05
timely_changelogprocessor is05:05
sixpenceSo does that mean youtube becomming more smooth is software and NOT hardware?05:05
timely_changelog*shrug*, i work on the web browser05:06
zerojaysixpence: First, as far as I know, Flash has been updated to the latest beta.05:06
timely_changelogand "more smooth" in the vague context of "some extremely complicated and highly ambiguous web application" is at best hard to quantify05:06
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zerojaysixpence: Second, the tablets will allow dynamically changing the clock speed higher for more intensive applications and stuff.05:07
zerojayI'd imagine flash would be able to take advantage of that.05:07
timely_changelogthe platform does it automaically, flash doesn't have any influence (or shouldn't)05:08
sixpencezerojay: On BOTh tablets.05:09
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zerojaysixpence: Both tablets use the same firmware and are virtually the same to the kernel. If it sees GPS when it boots, it'll load the GPS kernel module.. if not, it's ignored.05:09
zerojayIf the modules are not built into the kernel, that is.05:10
sixpencezerojay: Alright. I got it. :d05:10
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zerojayA lot of people don't realize that the N810 isn't really meant to be an upgrade like the N800 was to the 770.. but more of a consumer mainstream friendly version of the N800.05:18
pupnikAn alternative form factor05:19
zerojayYep.05:19
pupnikFor maemo to take off, i think we need a diverse set of portables running the ITOS05:21
pupnikFrom different manufacturers even05:21
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cesmananyone using gmyth and maemomyth around?06:42
sparris there a good forum for maemo users?06:42
cesmansparr: internettablettalk.com06:42
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sparrok, maybe someone will buy my 770s07:04
zoranit could serve you fine for years07:06
sparrside-grading back to a gp2x soon07:06
sparrim mostly a gamer, and since the new gp2x has a touch screen it can fill my small PIM needs too07:06
zoranyou could consider 770 as full grade pc07:06
sparrhttp://sparrsstuff.com/maemo  <--  its not like i am unaware of what it can do :-p07:07
zoranI wasn't aware of gp2x, have to admit07:08
lopzbye07:08
sparrhad one before my 770.  got stolen  :(07:09
sparrsome jackass thought it was a PSP, had it in a PSP case07:09
sparrwont make that mistake again07:09
zoranhow much it costs?07:09
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sparrabout $18007:10
zorannot so much07:10
zoranit could kill n81007:11
sparrnah07:11
sparrno wifi07:11
sparrno keyboard07:11
sparrno [large] built in storage07:11
macluvjaygp2x only playstation?07:11
zorancommand line?07:11
sparrno package manager07:11
sparrmacluvjay: huh?07:11
zoranah07:11
macluvjayi want nes emu07:11
zorank, looks similar to 770/80007:12
sparrgp2x has a great NES emulator.  ditto SNES.  crappy PSX emulator07:12
macluvjayawesome thanks07:12
sparrnokia could make a killing with a game device based on maemo...  real d-pad, shoulder buttons and right side buttons, it would rock07:12
sparrbut it wouldnt be as fast as the gp2x07:12
macluvjaywhere can i get?07:12
sparrgp2x has two ~250MHz ARM cores07:13
zoranthe first result on google07:13
sparrmacluvjay: http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Where_to_Buy%3F07:13
sparrfirst google result is probably gp2x.co.uk, not the cheapest or fastest place to order from unless you live in the UK07:13
macluvjaytakes me to the archive index07:13
sparrhttp://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Where_to_Buy07:13
sparrthe gp2x is designed for gaming, with PIM as an afterthought.  the opposite of maemo.07:14
zoransparr, I see 800/810 as play on device07:14
macluvjayah07:14
sparrzoran: without a real d-pad its mostly impossible to play most real action/arcade games for more than a few minutes07:14
zoran-hm, not a fan of gaming07:14
macluvjaywas hoping for a small emu for the 80007:15
cesmansparr: I wouldn't say it is the opposite for maemo07:15
cesmanthe ITs aren't PIM devices07:15
sparrgp2x doesnt [normally] run X11 like maemo does, they have their own light weight GUI that shuts down when you run a game.  the games tend to be very low level as well, often written with large chunks in asm, manipulating the device hardware directly instead of using high level stuff07:15
sparrcesman: i know, but the gp2x is also not an internet tablet07:15
zoranfor those $180 it plays mp3 and shoes video, if I see it correctly07:15
cesmansparr: I think the perfect portable would be a combination of the N8xx and a GP2X07:15
sparryes, it plays mp3 and shows video07:15
zoran*shows07:15
sparrcesman: i have thought that for a long time, with influences from the NDS and PSP and Mylo as well07:16
zoransparr, a lot of folks want just that07:16
sparrcesman: somewhere in N-space, there is an imaginary handheld with all the great features of all those platforms...  but no one makes it  :(07:16
sparrzoran: QVGA isnt as good for video as the 770/8xx07:16
zoranconmpaq has fine line of ipaqs07:16
zoransparr, you are correct07:17
sparr"the" gp2x software archive: http://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi07:17
sparrshould see a major influx of new stuff once the new model hits the streets, with a touch screen.07:18
sparrtouch screen opens up a lot of options for non-gaming apps, and for non-action games07:18
cesmansparr: there is a new gp in the works?!07:18
zoranit reminds me of what people want from new phone model: good camera, video, music, organizer...; no phone usage?07:18
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sparrcesman: yes, gp2x F200.  its the MK2 with a touch screen and a d-pad07:19
cesmangot a link?07:19
sparrcesman: and not "in the works"...  it shipped to distributors this week.07:19
sparrhttp://www.google.com/search?q=gp2x+f200 :)07:20
cesman:)07:20
cesmanjust did07:20
zoransomeone knows what is going on with 2600.net?07:20
sparrhttp://gp2x.co.uk/07:20
sparrother than those two things, and a slot for the stylus, its supposed to be functionally identical to the F100, and perfectly software compatible.07:21
sparrlots of devs are doubtful about the "perfectly" part, odds are some hardware addresses have changed that they didnt bother to document, but thats small change07:21
sparrthe gp2x is an excellent platform for very low level development.  if i ever get off my ass and do something original, instead of crappy ports (i ported enigma, mostly), it will be a good item for my portfolio trying to find a game development job07:23
sparrgp2x restarted my interest in very low level programming07:24
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niosopFigure you might be getting this alot, but anyone gotten python installed on latest revision for the n800?07:49
zerojayYes.07:49
niosopany hints?  Keep getting dependancy errors w/ libsdl-ttf and a couple others07:50
zerojayEr.. that's odd.07:50
zerojayNever had those issues.07:50
zoranchange fonts?07:50
_Monkeyzoran: that doesn't look right07:50
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zerojayInstalled perfectly fine in blue pill mode.07:50
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niosopIt installed fine for me earlier today, but after reflashing to latest version, it doesn't anymore  :(07:51
zorannew os version?07:51
niosopnod, 4.2007.38-207:52
zerojayThat's a month or so old now.07:52
timeless38 isn't a new version anyway07:52
timelessit's the same as he previous version w/ a kernel fix07:52
niosopnod.  That's why I didn't get why it would cause dependancy problems.07:52
zoranI meant, is it different from the previous?07:52
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keesjzoran: how about wifi and bleutooth , ain't that handy?08:39
zorankeesj, remind me, please08:40
keesjthe gp2x does not have such connectivity right?08:40
zoransupose so; don't have the gadget08:40
zoransparr is the guy with that dude08:41
keesjI think that the 770 + wii controller should beat the gp2x anyday anytime08:41
zoranI like my 770 as all round box08:41
zoranbut I think it as real computer, with linux as method08:42
sparrgp2x does not have built in wifi or bluetooth08:42
zoranI read phone reviews now and found it close to any pc already08:43
sparrbut the gp2x has more processing power than the 77008:44
keesjtwo cpu's but not really used right?08:45
sparrthe core OS uses one.  the other is used by some stock apps, some homebrew apps.08:45
sparrthere are libraries to do math and 2d and 3d graphics on the second cpu08:45
keesjnice, I did not know that08:46
sparrthe built in media player uses both, so it can decode more compressed video than the 77008:46
zoranI see people on the bus playing fabulous games on their phones; some phones are the size of medium brick08:47
zoranI recall people in flight, using laptops for some basic game, that children almost have it on the wrist watch08:48
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sparryeah08:50
sparrim happy with SNES emulation on the gp2x.  that alone is enough gaming to last a lifetime08:51
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sparrthe homebrew and such is just icing on the cake08:51
zoransparr, what is snes?08:52
sparrsuper nintendo entertainment system08:52
zoran:)08:52
sparrnintendo's 16 bit console, circa 199008:52
zoranmy cousin likes game emulators on his xp, for old spwctrum amiga etc08:53
sparrthere are emulators for almost every old console for the gp2x08:53
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sparrhttp://archive.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,508:53
zoranI recall of the game called "elite", about space traders and more08:54
sparrelite, elite 2, elite plus.  if you liked elite and have a PC, try oolite08:54
zoranhm, not so interested, but liked it that days08:54
sparrand if you like MMO games, there is Jumpgate (out of business?) and Earth and Beyond and EVE Online08:54
zerojayA version of Elite for the NES was finished but never was produced... the programmers released a free ROM if you're interested.08:55
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zoranI like another kind of stuff now08:55
sparrzerojay: im sure i already have it...  years ago i took the time to download every ROM of every game for every console up to the SNES  :)08:56
zerojaysparr: There's always new dumps.08:56
sparrsure, but odds are i wont be looking for them08:56
zoransparr could build a library of games and ask nokai to fund it08:57
sparrhttp://rafb.net/p/nIkH8I80.html08:57
zerojayI've got a huge rom collection as well.08:58
zorangames and video and music feed all those devices like phones, 770/800, all kind of players08:58
zerojayGot you beat.08:58
sparrat some point there are diminishing returns08:58
sparri wasnt really trying to set a record08:59
zerojayMe either.08:59
zerojayI just want everything I could possibly want to play.08:59
sparrjust trying to reach the "i probably wont have to hunt for a ROM for [insert game here] next year when i want to play it" point08:59
zerojayFull MAME set, full PS1 set..08:59
sparrPS1 is a little more disk space than i want to dedicate08:59
zerojayUnderstandably.08:59
sparrMAME is on my to-do list08:59
zerojayFull US set, ~390GB.09:00
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zoranor nas as game server?09:00
sparrzoran: that too09:00
zerojayzoran: I've got my PC set up for playing games locally but also serving by Samba to two Xboxes.09:01
zoranyou could hae all games on the storage and call them from emulator, not having it all around at your box09:01
zoranif emu supports net protocol09:02
zerojayUnfortunately, not all do.09:02
zoranI saw one linksys nas device for about $70 and space for 2 usb hdd09:02
zerojayNSLU-2.09:03
zoranyes09:03
zerojayI wanted one of those for a while.09:03
zorannot sure ifit is fast enough09:03
zoranme too09:03
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zoranthere is newer one, but does not look so fine as nslu209:04
zerojayLinksys?09:04
zoranyep09:04
zorancannot recall the name09:04
zorangonna google09:04
zorannas20009:05
* czr mornings all09:05
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* zoran gone to feed dragons09:07
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pupniksparr: awesome pic http://sparrsstuff.com/gallery2/d/6656-2/img_3088.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=e4842c01406e6bea705c5446938f73c809:17
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pupnikAnybody want to work on porting arm-optimized SNES emulator to 770/N800?09:22
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czrleg-optimized might be better09:35
czrI'd like to work on it, but no spare time sadly :-(09:35
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pupnikneato - java http://alexander.lash.googlepages.com/n800n770work09:51
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JaffaMorning, all10:19
sparrpupnik: so many different varieties of ARM, and most optimizations arent so much for the CPU as for the supporting hardware10:21
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pupnikAnd the number of hours you have spent learning SNES emulation = ?10:24
pupnikSorry - anyway i don't think that's right.10:26
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pupnikBig gains are achieved with ARM ASM rewrites of cores and ppu10:27
pupnikblitting to screen and sound output should be efficient, but only becomes a real issue at > 10fps10:29
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sparrlearning?10:47
sparrnot sure what you mean10:47
sparrmost good SNES emulators on weak hardware make very specific use of the hardware for things like sprite and tile blitting10:47
sparrsure, someone could write an uber all-ARM-asm implementation of that, but it would be crap compared to an emulator optimized for a specific platform10:48
sparrand it would still only run on a particular subset of ARM chips.  ARM 5?  ARM 7?  ARM 9?  with or without THUMB?  with or without the FPU?10:48
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* sp3000 grumbles12:11
sp3000guess what doesn't have the right time this morning12:12
* sp3000 wonders why that is12:12
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Jaffasp3000: European clocks went back last night.12:21
* Jaffa *guesses* you knew this, though12:21
sp3000right.12:22
sp3000everything else handled it12:22
* sp3000 isn't ruling out misconfiguration12:22
sp3000oh maybe everything else has the wrong time. hmm.12:23
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JaffaIt's currently 10:24 GMT/UTC12:24
sp3000well doh is me12:27
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sp3000so everything else is wrong, instead :)12:28
sp3000that's ...a kind of encouraging12:29
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sp3000that's what you get when you're not up at 3am with your machines to see them cope with a dst switch with hwclock set to local12:30
* sp3000 wonders when that last happened :)12:31
sp3000time sucks12:31
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crazyjimhi there.....13:46
crazyjimreal noob needs some help from a wise one13:46
pupniksparr: ok Granted, I should have specified that the ARM-optimized SNES emus  use ARM7 / ARM9 instructino sets.  Beyond that, no target-hardware-specific acceleration has been implemented in any of them.  No emulator offloads sound emulation onto a dsp.  No emulator implements SNES PPU (pixel processing unit) acceleration using target-hardwar gpu acceleration (compositing/sprites).13:47
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pupnikjo crazyjim13:47
crazyjimhi13:47
_Monkeywhat's up, crazyjim13:47
crazyjimummmm well I got a cheap nokia 77013:48
crazyjimand I have put some apps and games on it13:48
pupnikI have an expensive one :|13:48
crazyjimi need a good browser as I am having issues with some sites13:48
pupnikmicrob?13:48
_Monkeymicrob is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)13:48
pupnikminimo?13:48
_Monkeyminimo is (Mini Mozilla) Web browser, a slimmed down version of mozilla browser aiming resource reduced devices. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/minimo/13:48
crazyjimcan i run minimo  .2?13:49
crazyjimor is it just minimo_0.16.8-213:49
crazyjimi did install that but found it would crash or disapear13:50
pupnikdunno - i just use opera and avoid nasty sites13:50
crazyjimits sites with applets and clever stuff13:50
pupnikhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9125&highlight=microb13:51
crazyjimi will have a read13:52
crazyjimis there anything real cool to run on your 770?13:52
crazyjimlike the best thing ever??13:52
GeneralAntillesScummVM13:53
_MonkeyScummVM is a program which allows you to run certain classic graphical point-and-click adventure games, provided you already have their data files. http://770.fs-security.com/scummvm/13:53
GeneralAntillesor bash13:53
GeneralAntillesdepending on your slash13:53
GeneralAntilleswell . . . ash13:53
GeneralAntilles*slant13:53
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crazyjimthats cool... really want to get some goof flash games going but no joy13:54
crazyjimsummit like swords and sandals13:54
pupnikthe flash games are awful slow, unique311 put together a flash games package you can download13:55
pupnikbut most of them suck on 77013:55
pupnikyou have mplayer?  that's a great movie player.13:55
sbzthe best :)13:56
crazyjimyeah I have that13:57
crazyjimwhat sort of res do you convert the film too?13:57
crazyjim352x288?13:57
pupnik400x240 - do not exceed 240 in height13:57
pupnikmediaconverter?13:57
_Monkeyi heard mediaconverter was a frontend to mencoder which transcodes videos to a 770 or N800 optimized format.  Get it here: http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org/13:57
crazyjimsite wont load :(14:03
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pupnikgarage looks down14:05
pupnikhttp://www.bleb.org/software/770/770-encode.pl  there's the command line version14:06
pupnik770-encode?14:06
_Monkeyhmmm... 770-encode is a perl script to transcode video to 770/N800 friendly format.  Get it at http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#encode   A java GUI version for win/OSX/linux can be found at http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org  and an alternative shellscript transcoder can be found at http://www.modeemi.fi/~cosmo/projects/encode770/14:06
* Jaffa bingles _Monkey's advertising.14:09
* zeenix notices that it's a frustrating weather in fi14:09
zeenixunfortunately, it will continue to be so for another month or two14:09
Dasajevfor about six months :)14:10
suihkulokkizeenix: that's why we invented sauna14:11
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zeenixDasajev: wrong14:18
zeenixDasajev: it's much better when there is snow14:19
Dasajevif there is14:19
zeenixsuihkulokki: no! you invented sauna because you people like to be naked :)14:19
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crazyjimmy 770 fails to update rge package list and has not done so for 2 months.... anyone else had that issue ever14:26
Robot101zeenix: is it Cold(tm) now?14:30
zeenixRobot101: not so cold but dark14:31
Robot101zeenix: did your clocks change today?14:32
zeenixRobot101: yup14:36
Robot101phew, could have got confusing otherwise :)14:37
crazyjimwhen you convert a full film (700mb avi) what sort of size is it for Nokia 770?14:37
zeenixRobot101: ?14:38
Robot101I think the US didn't change yet? or does that only happen in spring?14:38
GeneralAntilles~600-700MB, crazyjim14:39
crazyjimreally?14:40
crazyjimthats massive!14:40
crazyjimits half the resolution so i was thing 350/14:41
crazyjim*thinking14:41
GeneralAntillesHalf the resolution, same bitrate, basically.14:42
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crazyjimwhere can i get the convertion software from as the garage site is down14:47
GeneralAntillesDunno, but you can just use your favorite video conversion software14:48
crazyjimlol....14:48
crazyjim240 max height?14:48
GeneralAntillesMPEG4 video, MP3 audio, 1000-1500Kbps 20-30fps, 400x240 (400x*** for widescreen and 320x240 for 4:3)14:49
zeenixRobot101: when is UK joining the schengen? i want to visit there for a weekend but tooo lazy to go through the visa process :(14:49
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Robot101zeenix: it's we're not that likely to any time soon as far as I know, something to do with not really trusting the rest of europe to do good enough imigration control :P14:50
Robot101s/it's //14:51
infobotRobot101 meant: zeenix: we're not that likely to any time soon as far as I know, something to do with not really trusting the rest of europe to do good enough imigration control :P14:51
GeneralAntillesand who could blame you?14:51
GeneralAntillesJust look at France. :\14:51
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zeenixGeneralAntilles: what about france?14:52
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alteregolibsmbclient .. Interesting.15:02
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JaffaApparently the Bunsfield Oil Depot fire destroyed the computer system which was handling the details of Britain joining Schengen, so now it's not happening.15:22
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alteregoHahah15:24
JaffaIt's little far-fetched, then you think about other Governmental computer systems...15:25
alteregoYeah15:25
alteregoLike the farse with the NHS last year15:26
raflwtf.. apt-get update doesn't say there was an error but still returns != 0 and tells me to run it again to to correct the problem. what might be happening here?15:26
raflhave you guys branched apt for maemo?15:26
alteregoNot as far as I know rafl.15:26
alteregoWhat does apt actually say?15:27
alteregoapt-get install -f ?15:27
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raflthe dpkg database is consistent, so -f install doesn't do anything.15:28
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raflupdate just gives a few warnings wrt archive keys and then just fails.15:29
pupnikhttp://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html  coin shrinking15:33
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raflis the automatic onscreen keyboard completion hackable somehow?15:37
raflwill os2008 reduce batterylife as it's not underclocking anymore?15:38
Jitenrafl: it'll be underclocking more ... most of the time.15:39
alteregorafl, it shouldn't.15:39
alteregoThe frequency scaling and power saving is very good in the tablets.15:39
raflso basically better powermanagement which allows the cpu to run at higher frequencies when needed?15:41
raflcool..15:41
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p|re15:44
p|if i format my mmc2 in ext2 format, after boot how to reload the ext2 module automatically ?15:45
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raflhow about an init script?16:09
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rafluh.. garage refuses to work :-/16:12
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p|mmm16:31
p|after latest firmare i'm unable to load ext2 module...16:32
zorandevice/os?16:32
p|it report "Unknown symbol in module (-1):no such file o directory16:32
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p|n800/2007.38.216:33
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zorando you have ext2.ko in current?16:33
p|no16:33
zoranah!16:33
zoranext3?16:33
p|'/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18ecc....16:34
zoranlist it16:34
p|i have not current16:34
p|dunno why16:34
zoranwhat is in 2.6.18... ?16:34
L0c-[N800]insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18-omap1/ext2.ko16:35
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zoranyou read my minds16:36
L0c-[N800]ext2 and 3 modules does exists16:36
L0c-[N800]also bnep module is gone, so no PAN connections...16:37
zoranloading manualy would give the answer16:37
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zpolhola16:39
_Monkeybonjour, zpol16:39
DRoBeRHola, zpol .16:40
L0c-[N800]ciao   zpol16:40
zoran_Monkey speaks even swiss language16:40
_Monkeyzoran: i'm not following you...16:40
zoran_Monkey got R2D2 extension16:40
_Monkeyzoran: what?16:40
zpolheya L0c-[N800] DRoBeR16:40
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raflcan i adjust the onscreen keyboards size?16:46
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alteregoWhy would you want to?16:48
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raflbecause i prefer to see more of the actual application.16:50
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JaffaFor those who haven't seen mediaserv in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBmU_I_FlXc17:02
pupnikvery fast startup time17:05
pupnikis that family guy thing transcoded?17:05
flip^anyone wanna buy me a n810...17:05
GeneralAntillesYeah, mediaserv is wonderfully fantastic. :)17:06
JaffaThe source is DVD rip at 720x576 at ~1000kbps video bitrate and 192kbps audio on a 1GHz VIA C3 processor.17:06
sparrJaffa: fulls creen would be nice17:07
JaffaPress the full screen key: it's the standard media player (or mplayer, depending on how you've configured your web browser and/or Video Center)17:07
pupniki don't see how it starts the transcoding so fast.  must have a small buffer on the server side.17:08
JaffaBuffer size is configurable, defaults to 2 seconds.17:08
JaffaThat's 770-encode's "average" preset too.17:09
raflhrm.. mediaserv <317:10
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rafli wonder how hard it would be to set up a crosscompilation environment without scratchbox. it's constantly biting me..17:17
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raflLD_PRELOAD, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, PATH, ... it's just insane :-/17:19
pupniki never mess with default scratchbox ld environment17:20
raflesp. that libresolv hack bugs me.17:20
raflwell.. i'd like to not mess with it, but i want my things to be ported..17:21
rafli wonder if sb2 would be better. at least it sounds less insane.17:21
pupniki just mentioned this because it might be informative to know that pupnik does not need to mess with these things to compile many programs17:22
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suihkulokkirafl: sb1 "works" for current stuff, so nobody bothers working on sb2 rulesets17:22
rafli got your point, but my apps seem to have weird build systems17:23
suihkulokkiwhat apps?17:23
_Monkeyapps are small17:23
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suihkulokkifuck _Monkey17:23
rafllike things depending on perl.17:24
suihkulokkithat's tricky17:24
suihkulokkiyou really want to use host perl for most stuff17:24
suihkulokkiso it needs to be figured out when you actually need the target perl17:25
zoranperl could be life saving for development17:25
raflindeed. i got it working but it required lots of hacks.17:25
zoranwith perl and python, no need for sb17:26
raflzoran: eh?17:26
zoranit is ascii17:26
suihkulokkithere is still lots of perl/python modules compiled in c17:26
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zoranjust copy needed libs or modules from desktip17:27
zoransuihkulokki, correct17:27
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raflgetting xs (i.e. compiled) modules working wasn't that hard17:29
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raflother apps with unflexible build systems linking against shared perl are hard.17:30
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raflvim, for example.17:32
zoran?17:32
zoranyou already have vi17:33
raflsure, I do.17:34
rafland I want vim with embedded perl.17:34
zoranah17:34
rafland I think I got that now17:37
raflthat and vim-gkt17:37
rafl*gtk17:37
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macluvjaywhatś´the secret to getting screen on the n800?17:47
macluvjaybah, silly bt keyboard17:47
macluvjaylooks like it requires debconf, but we only get fakedebconf17:47
zoranscreen for more then one shell?17:47
macluvjaycorrect17:48
zorandoes apt-get help?17:48
macluvjaylike I said ^17:48
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zoranmacluvjay, I installed it on 770 with no hiss, but cannot recall deps17:50
raflaww.. die scratchbox! die!17:51
raflbuggy python wrapper around chmod :-(17:51
zoranbad wizard takes all17:51
macluvjayapt-cache show debconf only returns fakedebconf17:51
zoranI took bin file and just followed, what app manager asked17:52
sp3000macluvjay: screen from where?17:52
zorancould be diff for your device17:52
sp3000oh, nm17:53
* sp3000 missed the pre-depends line17:53
macluvjayapt-get install screen returns screen: PreDepends: debconf (>= debconf 0.2.1717:53
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zorando you see it in any rep?17:54
sp3000oh, actually17:54
macluvjayin the gui application manager and apt-cache search17:54
sp3000macluvjay: screen from where?17:54
zoranApplicationCatalog2006 has it for sure17:54
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macluvjaythis is n800 IT200717:55
sp30004.0.3-0.3osso2 from rmo/bora Pre-Depends: debconf (>= 0.5) | debconf-2.0, the latter of which is provided by fakedebconf17:56
sp3000which repository, rather17:56
macluvjayhmm, apt-cache show doesnt tell what repo?17:56
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cbx33hey guys17:56
sp3000apt-cache policy does to some extent17:57
zoranI see debconf in repository/maemo.org/pool17:57
cbx33can we mount webdav shares yet on the n80017:57
sp30004.0.2-5maemo3 from mg.pov.lt would seem to have more demanding predeps17:57
* zoran gone to say "hi" to dragons17:57
macluvjayaha!17:57
macluvjay4.0.2-5maemo317:58
macluvjaymg.pov.lt bora/user Packages17:58
macluvjaysp3000: what would you suggest?17:59
macluvjaywhat is the repo for the 4.0.3 you listed?18:00
konttorihey pupnik: you around?18:00
sp3000oh18:02
* sp3000 forgets that apt-get policy sucks and apt-get showpkg's version lists that are really local paths express repositories better, ironically18:03
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sp3000macluvjay: well, 4.0.3-0.3osso2(/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-armel_Packages)18:03
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sp3000of course that's a repository thatäs "meant to be used with the 'apt-get' tool only within the SDK environment" so go figure18:04
sp3000per http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_debian, but then again http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories has no such admonishment18:04
sp3000in the future, this all will make sense! ...right18:05
amris it just me or is the garage down18:10
sp3000seems moderately dead yeah18:13
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raflwhy isn't ar available? :-(18:19
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macluvjaysp3000: tahnk you so much!18:27
sp3000amr, seems to be back fwiw18:27
zerojayIt went down last night too, around 1am.18:28
zerojay1am EST.18:28
playyaanyone tried to compile e for n800?18:29
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sp3000wasn't so much down as very slow for me18:32
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macluvjayplayya: rasterman has scrots on his site about having it running18:38
macluvjayyou probably want to speak with him18:38
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playyaok18:39
playyai found a video on youtube18:39
macluvjayoh?18:39
macluvjayurl18:39
p|what about bnep.ko module for latest n800 firmware ?18:40
p|does it exists ?18:40
playyahttp://youtube.com/results?search_query=enlightenemnt+n800&search=Search18:42
raflI looked into edje on maemo as well for writing a shiny xmms2 client with it, but I must admin that I still prefer the clutter api.18:44
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macluvjayI like the onscreen keyboard, but tttttttthe others I wasnt so impressed with18:51
macluvjays/with/by/18:51
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macluvjaybtw, the new plankton theme is way hot18:52
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BlueGenehi hi hi :)19:31
BlueGenehola :)19:31
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BlueGeneis somebody from Poland?19:34
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pupniki love nvi for a vi20:14
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lopzhola20:20
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BlueGeneq pasa nene20:22
lopzBlueGene, tio, anoche me soñé con el n810 :\20:22
BlueGeneme q?20:22
lopzestoy pensando seriamente comprarme ese cacharo20:23
lopzBlueGene, que me he soñado20:23
BlueGeneno deberias20:23
BlueGenenadie lo recomienda20:23
lopzBlueGene, por que no ?20:23
BlueGenexq es casi lo mismo q el 80020:24
BlueGeneyo no lo haria20:24
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lopzmm.. pero el GPS mola tio20:24
lopzpero no, creo que tienes razón, mejor me quedo con mi n800 y espero que salga otro con alguna caracterítica que valga la pena20:25
BlueGenesi, no te vayas a perder en esa isla tan enorma xDD20:25
lopzBlueGene, tu cual quieres pillarte ?20:25
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zerojayAnyone here use Blogger?20:27
celestehyes20:27
celestehI use blogger20:27
zerojaycelesteh: Think you can try to reproduce my bug on Microb... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=218020:28
celestehum20:28
celestehi need to update my os first20:28
BlueGenelopz yo no tengo un duro20:29
lopzxD20:30
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amrthememaker is pretty cool20:55
amrits going to take utterly ages to make my theme though20:55
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zerojayamr: Why>20:56
zerojay?20:56
amri have nothing planned and i'm kind of winging it20:56
amratm its a plankton rip off for the 770 :P20:56
amrwell, the colours20:56
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Andy80hi21:14
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alteregoThumb scrollbar?21:24
alteregoInteresting ..21:25
zerojayWhere's that?21:25
alteregohildon-helper.h21:25
alteregoI'll have to look into that.21:26
zerojayIs it new in Chinook?21:28
alteregoYes21:28
alteregoI think so.21:28
alteregoThough it's not documented.21:28
alteregoI think it makes up for the functions that are documented that aren't actually in the SDK.21:28
zerojayHah.21:29
alteregoLike Karma ..21:29
zerojayKarma? What is it supposed to be?21:29
alteregoA natural order to things :)21:29
alteregoWell, it's a force that balances good and bad.21:29
zerojayOh, I thought you meant that Karma was a function documented in the SDK.21:30
alteregoHah21:30
alteregohildon_find_toolbar_get_last_index()21:30
zerojayIt would explain people saying "my tablet doesn't like me anymore".21:30
alteregoThat's missing.21:30
alteregoWhen I've finished scanning Hildon I'll send a mail with all my complaints to the mailing list ;)21:31
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BlueGenehi :)21:37
alteregoHello there.21:37
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tkoalterego: hildon-list, right? :)21:49
alterego:)21:49
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lopzre21:55
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* zeenix should learnt to read and write his mother tongue so he can do the translation22:07
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pupnik"A child's second language should be a programming language."22:15
glasslearning english in current world helps a lot towards that.. at least if you intend to be serious about it22:16
pupnikyeah i'll change that to third22:16
glassthough, for learning basic english all you need is to leave around copies of leisure suit larry22:16
pupnikhehe22:16
pupnikinfocom taught me typing22:16
pupnikwell - it helped22:17
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sp3000irc!1122:23
sp3000...or ...not.22:24
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pupnikhmm 3430 claims support for 1024x768 displays.  This is 2.048 times as large as framebuffer needed for 800x48022:42
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pupnikhttp://www.pvr-extremist.com/default.asp#ID634  Games running on PowerVR MBX (omap2420) demoe'd at GDC Expo 200622:56
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pupnik http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/11/11/q3ce_powervr/  Quake 3 Arena @ 25 fps on Dell Axim X51v with PowerVR MBX Opengl ES 2.0 drivers23:02
Rask330Have any of you guys on the USA side of things managed to get AT&T to set you up with a halfway decent data plan that works with the N800?  :D23:05
deejoeRask330: wouldn't that depend on the phone used, too?23:06
Rask330Probably.23:06
Rask330I'm just getting a ton of inconsistent responses from their idiot sales department... X)23:06
deejoeah, yeah, good luck with that.23:06
deejoenot that I have experience with AT&T idiocy per se, just with sales departments generally.23:07
Rask330"Duh, you want to use your phone to download more ringtones?"23:08
Rask330One rep actually said, in the same call, the following:23:08
Rask330(1) My phone did, in fact, support use as a bluetooth networking gateway.23:08
Rask330(2) They didn't have any data plans that were compatible with the phone.23:08
Rask330(3) They could put a data plan on my phone, but it would cost thousands of dollars because it's a "manufacturer concern".23:09
Rask330(What a "manufacturer concern" was, they did not say.)23:09
Rask330One wonders why Motorola would be concerned that someone was using a data-enabled phone for data.23:10
pupnikUS needs europes data plans, and europe needs US's culture of open hotspots23:10
alteregodata plans in the UK are aweful.23:10
Rask330The US telecommunications industry needs to pull its head out of its arse...23:10
alteregoAt least they were last time I looked ^_^23:11
Rask330I am still amused and disgusted that they charge as much as $0.15 per text message with a straight face.23:11
alteregoText messaging hasn't been all that popular in America.23:11
Rask330Maybe it would be if it wasn't so overpriced...23:12
Rask330You're using a tiny fraction of the bandwidth needed for a voice call, yet they actually seem to charge more.23:12
alteregoWell, you can pay twice that for texts in the UK.23:12
alteregoAlmost twice that.23:12
alteregoI think I get charged 10p per text.23:13
pupnikin germany i see video calls and television over umts advertised23:13
pupnikow23:13
glasstelevision over umts is pretty widespread23:14
glassoperators like to have "mobile tv"(even if almost nobody actually watches it).. and thats the current way to deliver it23:14
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lautihallo?23:27
zerojayHello.23:29
lautinew on this channel...23:31
lautigoing to develop a upnp control point23:31
zerojaySounds good to me.23:31
lautiafter the one offensichtlich nokia is buggy and closed source23:32
lautigui hangs regularily...23:32
laution n700 at least23:32
lautiannoying-...23:32
lautiwill be here frequently asking questions ;-)23:33
lauticheckout http://wap-5000.wikispot.org23:35
alteregoN700?23:38
alteregoIs that a tablet>23:38
lautin770, sorry23:39
zerojayJust 770. It's not in the N series.23:39
alteregoAh, the Nokia 77023:40
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lautican anyone tell me if the canola team israelischen going to support external renderers?23:42
alteregoisrealischen?23:42
alteregoWhat's with the strange random words ..23:42
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pupniki can translate from german if that helps23:43
lautishit... auto-completion of the virtual keyboard...23:43
MoRpHeUzpupnik: plz =)23:43
k-s[WORK]lauti: it's sunday, 18:42 here... were're still working on canola 223:43
alteregoHah23:43
MoRpHeUz=)23:43
k-s[WORK]lauti: so, we're quite busy :-P23:43
MoRpHeUzlauti: anyway, what does israelischen mean ?23:44
alteregoIt's 21:46 here, and I'm still working on Ruby-Maemo ^_^23:44
* alterego wants a team :)23:44
k-s[WORK]:-D23:44
k-s[WORK]at least we're paid to do so... and it's a good amount :-P23:44
alteregoOh thanks.23:44
alteregoI'll just give up now then shall I :P23:44
MoRpHeUzhahaha23:44
pupnikmaybe a diminuitive israeli girl in lederhosen and pigtails23:44
k-s[WORK]alterego: it was not directed to ya!23:45
alterego:)23:45
lautiall: israelischen was a typo... the auto-completion placed it next to the spacebar23:45
alteregoI've got a few more classes to implement (5). Then I can look forward to a few hours of testing.23:46
Ryback_lol23:46
lautii am writing on n770 right now23:46
alteregoIF the tests go well. I should be able to release some chinook packages tomorrow.23:46
k-s[WORK]alterego: there are some bindings for EFL-Ruby23:46
k-s[WORK]alterego: could you take a look?23:46
alteregok-s[WORK], sure.23:47
k-s[WORK]alterego: you could try to rewrite my iphone-like vkbd in ruby!23:47
k-s[WORK]:-)23:47
alteregoI'll put it on my things to do.23:47
k-s[WORK]then people can write beautiful apps in ruby too23:47
alteregok-s[WORK], are you the indt guy that wrote that vkbd in Python then?23:47
k-s[WORK]yep23:47
k-s[WORK]:-)23:47
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alterego:)23:47
amranyone here ever used thememaker?23:47
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lautik-s: are you from canola team?23:48
k-s[WORK]cmarcelo, MoRpHeUz and Ryback_ are the (un)fortunate to work with me in the canola team23:48
raflk-s[WORK]++ # your edje on maemo stuff23:48
alteregoI'm just looking forward to getting this release out so I can start developing my own apps.23:48
k-s[WORK]lauti: yes23:48
amri'm getting a gap on my left border23:49
amra solid blue line23:49
amrand i can't seem to find where it is23:49
k-s[WORK]anyone will be at ELC-2007/Austria?23:51
k-s[WORK](from CELF)23:51
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lautik-s: so what about controlling external upnp renderers by canola?23:59

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