IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-02-19

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sp3000so hm00:13
sp3000is this feedreader thing actually buildable00:13
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sp3000I can't seem to satisfy the libossorssfeedreader build dep00:14
maddlersbaturzio: hahahaha... right!!!00:17
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nelsonIs it just me, or does the RSS feed reader  miss some entries and repeat others?00:27
maddlernelson: the second you said... :)00:27
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Takit's trying to make up for the ones it misses00:28
nelsonSo it's not just me, then.00:28
sp3000nelson: I have a feed that it likes to get a bunch of items every other time or whatever00:28
sp3000like it alternates between the last two, and the rest00:28
* sp3000 shrugs00:28
* sp3000 would kinda like to stopgap it from killing stuff too happily, but that would kinda require managing to build it first00:29
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nelsonI was also looking for a preference that tells it to keep more entries, but it seems to only keep one window's worth.00:30
maddlernelson: yep, you cannot change that. I think that was fixed on 77000:32
maddleror at least there was some similar problem on 77000:32
* sp3000 would point out something on a cross-reference but those aren't on one00:32
sp3000https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=953 fwiw00:32
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nelsonReading that bugzilla entry, it seems to me like the front page should show you ALL articles you haven't yet read (by starting up the newsreader), but the reader should also show you ALL the articles in the feed even if you've already read them.00:37
maddlernelson I'm trying http://moimart.org/stuff/bloglines_0.7-1_armel.deb right now...00:39
maddlerlemme see if it works00:39
nelsonmaddler: well, but don't you think that the included application should work correctly out of the box?00:39
maddlernelson: yes, absolutely!00:40
maddlerbut in the meantime?00:40
* mgedmin rants quietly00:40
sp3000nelson: read items are deleted when a new item is added00:40
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sp3000sez the src00:40
maddlermgedmin: hehe00:40
sp3000it's amusing00:40
maddlersp3000: unread items are deleted as well...00:41
sp3000maddler: what items are unread?00:41
maddlerunless you had the time to mark them for "later"00:41
sp3000maddler: per docs in the sources, all items in a feed selected for viewing are read as of then00:41
sp3000oh, you mean 'read', I meant 'considered read', different thing, see :)00:42
maddlerright00:42
sp3000the 'considered read' thing is reasonable for showing how much is new since you looked at it last00:42
maddlerthat's why you only have last 1 or 2 items per feed00:42
sp3000it's not for deleting stuff obviously00:42
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sp3000it might make sense to prioritize on 'unread' in the applet00:49
sp3000which would mean current behavior in the applet except that 'read' items would appear at the bottom if not crowded out by 'unread'00:51
maddlerbtw... bloglines is working fine... :)00:54
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maddlerhmmm... well... almost...00:59
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maddlertime to hit the bed!01:12
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Tak|770meh - ever since I got an n800, I'm having trouble connecting to my AP with the 77001:20
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maddlerTak|770: which AP?01:37
Tak|770wrt-something01:39
maddlerhmm.. they alwais worked fine for me...01:39
maddlerI'm using a wrt54gs now01:40
maddlerwith dd-wrt01:40
maddlerand everything works fine01:40
konfooddwrt here too.. works like a charm :)01:44
Tak|770my model isn't compatible with ddwrt01:49
Tak|770it's in the compact series01:49
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maddlerbuy a wrt54gl then ;)01:51
Tak|770heh01:52
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gnuiteDoes anyone know how to use the <graphic> tag in the osso-help framework?02:07
gnuiteSpecifically, I'd like to know what are the "system images" referred to by this statement in the HOWTO: "You have to define either the absolute path (with 'filename' parameter) to show third-party pictures or the plain filename when using system images."02:07
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nelsongnuite: well done with version 1.4, by the way.  It just installed, and the model repository makes it very easy.02:17
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gnuitenelson: Thanks. :)02:18
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nelsongnuite: where should I record that the Wintec WBT-100 works nicely?02:20
nelsonIt's a REALLY REALLY nifty BT GPS receiver.02:20
nelsonSupports USB as well, and .... the USB cable is also the charging cable.  Comes with a cigarette llighter USB and a plug-in USB power supply.02:21
nelsonOh, and it has a compass, too.02:21
gnuitenelson: The only active list of GPS receivers that work with Maemo Mapper is in the InternetTabletTalk forums: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197002:21
nelsonOh, and it's only about 1" x 2" x 1/2"02:21
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konfooi like my little gpslim 240 :)02:29
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arnnnhow do I scroll to previous command on xterm ?02:40
desrt"up"02:41
desrtthe hardware keypad on the unit sends up/down/left/right like normal02:41
arnnnthank you that's nice02:42
arnnnI already put http://repository.maemo.org  distribution:bora  components: free non-free extras   on my application manager already but apt-get install libglade still doesn't work, it can't find libglad02:43
arnnne02:43
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arnnncoudn't find package libglade02:44
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konfoohttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=35420 dynip client for anyone who needs one03:24
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com1hi03:26
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com1is gaim working on n800 yet?03:31
konfooyes03:31
com1where do i get it?03:31
com1plz03:31
konfooi think its in one of the mistral repos03:32
konfoolemme check03:32
com1great03:32
konfoohttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3542003:33
juhoany idea when new tablet os upgrade comes to n80003:34
juhohope they improve video playback03:34
com1ari said hopefully 1 week03:34
com1or two03:34
juho1 week from now03:35
com1yeah03:35
com1yeah, video optimization was the goal03:35
Molaginice03:37
Molagiit plays pretty good even now03:37
Molagiatleast with the standard media player03:38
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juhoany improves for mplayer coming with that upgrade03:38
Tak|770...until it freezes03:38
Molagino freezes with my n80003:38
Molagi:P03:38
Molagionly with mplayer03:38
Molagii got all the problems with mplayer, seems to freeze all the time03:39
Tak|770I experience the opposite03:39
Molagiwhat kind of videos youre trying to play?03:39
Tak|770ones I'd formatted for the 77003:40
Molagiwhat video bitrate?03:40
Tak|770low - like 200kbps03:40
Molagiyeah im using the same03:40
Molagiplays pretty nice with 35003:41
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pbrookThe crappy DSP code is usually what causes video playback to lockup on my n800.03:42
pbrookTry telling mplayer to use software mp3 decoding+esd (-ac ffmp3 -ao esd).03:43
com1who's on their internet tablet now with BT DUN?03:43
Tak|770oh! is it possible to do some kind of p2p connection between two ITs using bt?03:44
Tak|770e.g. to play bomberman w/o wlan03:44
pbrookIt's almost certainly possible, though you might have to set it up manually.03:46
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pbrookTak|770: These instructions wrked pretty much out the box for connecting the n800 to my pc: http://bluez.sourceforge.net/contrib/HOWTO-PAN03:55
pbrookIgnore all the module loading bits, it's already built into the kernel.03:56
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JoshTriplettMy N800 sometimes fails to send its hostname to my DHCP server (OpenWrt, dnsmasq), so the DNS can't resolve the N800's hostname to its IP address.  Has anyone else observed this problem?  How can I solve it?04:51
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JoshTriplettOr, for that matter, how can I diagnose it?04:58
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l7hello06:37
l7how are people liking the N800 compared to other gadgets in it's class?06:37
l7i've been noticing the PSP is surprisingly in the same class06:38
l7in terms of hardware anyhow06:38
l7and i suppose the iphone does many of the same things as well, thought it is yet to come out06:38
konfoothe psp is entirely different except for form factor06:40
gnuitethe screen resolution is too low for anything more serious than gaming.06:41
konfoothe netfront browser on the psp sucks.06:41
konfoothe psp works fine for gaming IMO06:41
gnuitenot to put it down; it's a slick machine... but it's not an n800 competitor06:41
konfooyeah.. in no way06:41
konfooits a handheld gaming device. compare it to a gp2x if you will ;)06:42
konfooit has a hardware 264 decoder which is its only saving grace06:42
konfoobut no hard drive on the other hand06:42
l7gp2x?06:45
l7who makes that?06:45
l7it has some computer potential06:46
l7and it's in the same price point06:46
l7thought i admit the n800 has 4x the resolution06:46
l7800x480 is nice for the we06:46
l7b06:46
konfoothe gp2x is killed by the batteries it uses and the small screen06:46
konfoonod06:46
konfooyou cant beat it06:46
l7true06:46
l7it's probably the highest res in a device around the $300 price point06:47
l7how are the external keyboards for the n800 like?06:47
l7i know there is no offical keyboard06:47
konfoounless you look at 3yo laptops yes :)06:47
l7but i'm guessing a hack for bluetooth keyboards is available?06:47
konfooi have a freedom mini, it works fine06:47
l7lol, laptops are too big06:47
konfooyou dont need hacks06:48
l7it's officially supported?06:48
l7how much is the freedom mini?06:48
konfoostandard bluetooth input device06:48
l7well i'm trying to think which device i want06:48
l7for web + irc + ebooks + movies + music06:48
l7and perhaps a few games on the side06:49
l7oh yeah and ssh too06:49
konfoohmm i would say n800 hands down06:49
konfootrust me i have tried them all06:49
l7gaming too?06:49
l7i don't suppose the n800 will have a price drop anytime soon06:49
konfoozaurus c-series, 770, 800, psp, gp2x, u101, pocketpcs up the ying yang, ...06:50
konfooeh i dunno.. maybe06:50
konfooi doubt it tho06:50
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konfoohttp://www.amazon.com/Think-Outside-SBT5E-Stowaway-Bluetooth/dp/B000FG44BA/sr=8-6/qid=1171860645/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6/002-5792482-7928039?ie=UTF8&s=electronics bt keyboard06:51
konfoohttp://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-virtual-keyboard-BT-Keyboard/dp/B000BAY460/sr=1-9/qid=1171860691/ref=sr_1_9/002-5792482-7928039?ie=UTF8&s=electronics or that :)06:51
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l7_hrm06:52
l7_konfoo: you have the Stowaway Sierra Bluetooth Kbd?06:52
l7_i'm wondering if it's the best BT keyboard out there06:52
l7_not bad for 75 bucks06:53
konfooi have the freedom mini and the stowaway06:53
konfoostowaway is better06:53
l7_hrm06:53
konfooesp if you need to ssh and do work06:53
konfoofolds up nicely as well06:53
l7_i wonder if it suppoorts my smartphone06:53
l7_it would be nice to have a keyboard that supports both06:54
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l7_what do you like about the stowaway sierra?06:54
konfooeh it can take a beating in my backpack? :)06:55
konfooreasonably good tactile response06:55
l7_better than the freedom mini in both areas?06:56
konfooyeah06:56
konfoofreedom mini is a toy, really06:56
konfooi use it in my car when i need to browse the web, that's about it06:56
l7_oh wait06:57
l7_the freedom mini is really small though06:57
konfooyeah06:57
l7_i am planning on using this to take notes in class06:57
l7_so i guess the sierra wins06:57
konfooits the size of the n800's screen06:57
konfoonod06:57
tigertmorning06:58
konfooevening :)06:58
l7_i guess it's nice to have options06:58
l7_have you tried the PSP too?06:59
konfoothe psp is a toy06:59
l7_yeah06:59
l7_it has IR keyboard support though07:00
l7_i could probably take notes with it too07:00
konfooi wouldnt even bother. most of its homebrew apps are featureless07:00
l7_and perhaps ssh / irc as well07:00
l7_featureless?07:00
konfoobasic functionality07:00
l7_i'm sure maemo is much more mature than the psp's homebrew community in many ways07:01
l7_does it have ssh?07:01
konfoooh ofcourse07:01
konfoono07:01
l7_the psp has no ssh?07:01
l7_wow07:01
l7_there are ftp clients available so i assumed ssh would be there too07:01
l7_but i guess not yet07:01
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konfoothe psp homebrew scene seems to focus on games mostly07:02
konfooand/or defeating sony's horrid firmware protection07:02
l7_yeah07:03
l7_there is a repository of homebrew apps there too07:03
l7_not sure how well it is supported though07:03
l7_so how customizable is the n800's os?07:04
l7_can you get your own browser if you want instead of using the stock one?07:04
konfooits a full linux distribution07:04
konfoowell, as 'full' as one can say for a portable device07:04
konfoothe stock is opera. theres a compile of minimo07:05
l7_oh nice07:06
l7_how do you like minimo?07:06
l7_i sorta want get both the n800 and the psp now07:06
konfoohaha07:07
konfoominimo works great07:07
l7_n800 for school and psp for fun07:07
konfooit has a few glitches but no real showstoppers07:07
l7_though their functionality does overlap a bit07:07
l7_they both do music and movies07:07
l7_and function as ebook readers07:08
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konfoowell canola on the n800 kills anything the psp has to offer for music playback/organization07:08
konfooebook reading on the psp sucks07:08
l7_why?07:08
konfoofbreader trumps it hands down07:08
konfoolimited pdf, no chm support, limited resolution..07:08
l7_hmm07:09
l7_what kind of *07:09
l7_(simple) games can you play on the n800?07:09
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konfoocheck the app catalog on maemo.org. mame, nes, scummvm, ..07:10
l7_can fbreader autoscroll?07:10
l7_ah it's planned07:10
l7_hrm the n800 is 350 compared to 200 for the psp07:11
l7_it seems to pack in better functionality though07:11
konfoowell yeah its a handheld pc vs a toy07:12
konfoo:)07:12
l7_heh07:12
l7_i would probably learn more from the n80007:12
l7_would it still be worth considering a cheaper 770?07:12
l7_or does the n800 trump it in every way?07:13
konfooi have a 770 sitting here. no.07:13
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l7_oh07:14
l7_i heard the 770's processor feels a little slow07:14
l7_which was one reason i held off buying it07:14
konfooits fine actually, provided you dont load it down with a lot of crap07:14
l7_ha07:15
konfoobut the 800 is noticeably more responsive07:15
konfooplus you have two card slots, more ram, faster cpu..07:15
l7_ah yeah07:15
l7_i think they upgraded the card slots nicely07:16
l7_from being only rs-mmc07:16
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l7_so it seems like nokia actually responds to it's customers07:16
konfoowell not with the cover :)07:16
l7_oh right07:19
l7_what is wrong with the cover again?07:19
konfooit isnt there07:20
l7_oh07:20
l7_is a seperate one available?07:20
konfootheres one that's going to ship sometime soon.. its just a hard flipcover07:21
konfoonot fantastic but better than a kick in the nuts07:21
l7_"For me the Nokia 770 is the more ideal one. It’s protected by a hard cover and because of the smaller size one can easily take it along in a trouser pocket. Same won’t apply for the N800. That IT is more suitable at home. But then I can just as well use my Appel 12″ iBook.07:22
l7_"07:22
l7_is the n800 really that much bigger?07:22
l7_http://spicygadget.com/2007/02/04/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-review/07:22
konfoono07:22
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l7_the fm radio for the n800 is kinda cool too07:23
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l7_ouch the n800 is $40007:25
l7_for some reason i thought it was $350 a few weeks back07:25
l7_did they up the price after launch?07:25
konfoono idea..07:26
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l7_http://www.nextag.com/Nokia-N800-NSERIES-INTERNET-533020854/price-history-html07:28
l7_musthave been looking at the 77007:30
l7_the 770 is $300 now07:30
l7_i could get a used PSP and a 770 for about 46007:30
l7_but the expensive rs-mmc media might eat up the savings07:33
l7_hmm according to Nokia's website, the 770 is 7.27 oz07:34
l7_er the 800 is 7.27 oz07:35
l7_while the 770 is 8.01 oz07:35
l7_the 800 is actually slimmer07:36
l7_but slightly wider and not as tall07:36
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dolfunslimmer?07:43
dolfunlooks thicker...07:43
dolfunthe hard cover on the 770 is very useful07:44
dolfunbut with a carrying case, the problem is solved07:44
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l7_dolfun: http://www.nokiausa.com/N800/1,9008,feat:1,00.html07:52
l7_http://www.nokiausa.com/770/1,7841,feat:1,00.html07:52
l7_according to nokia, the 770 is 0.7 inches thick07:53
l7_and the n800 is 0.5 inches thick07:53
l7_unless there is a typo07:53
l7_however i'm sure they don't take into the account the bulge07:54
l7_does anyone here use a carrying case for their n800?07:54
l7_i wonder i need to shop for a third party case07:54
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dolfuni would only upgrade to the n800 if it had fast 8-bit emulators07:55
l7_hrm what are 8-bit emulators for?07:56
dolfungames07:56
l7_oh07:58
l7_what's been your experience with the current emulators?07:58
l7_i would like to be able to play some of those on the n800 too07:58
l7_of course you could get a PSP ;-)07:59
dolfunsome games are playable on n77008:00
dolfunemulated08:00
tigertheh08:00
dolfunxmame: space duel, gravitar, joust08:01
tigertscummvm works  ok i think08:01
dolfunrobotron barely08:01
dolfunscumvm is excellent08:01
tigertbut get a psp for games :)08:01
l7_ hrm08:01
l7_heh08:01
dolfunyou can run a nes/snes emu on psp?08:01
l7_yup08:02
l7_even a n64 i've heard08:02
l7_though the framerate isn't there yet08:02
l7_wait, do all the 8bit emulators for the 770 work as well on the 800?08:02
dolfuni wouldn't buy a games-only device08:03
l7_or are incompatibilies between the 770 and the 80008:03
l7_well the psp also does video, photos, and limited web08:03
l7_there's some homebrew pda software too08:03
dolfundon't know, you have to search08:03
l7_though i don't know how well it works08:03
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dolfunpsp resolution not enough for work08:03
l7_dolfun: what kind of work?08:04
dolfunshell, vnc, web08:04
l7_weird, i would assume that everything that runs on the 770 would be 100% compatible with the 800...08:04
tigertyea. for good web 800px wide is minimum, unless one does some wacky zoom hacks08:04
l7_this is disappointing08:04
l7_if that is not the case08:04
tigertbut those need to be really slick to not annoy08:05
dolfunif buying now, get a n80008:05
l7_i'm sure the iphone will find a way to be slick08:05
tigertl7, in theory yes08:05
l7_hmm yeah08:05
tigertstuff needs to be recompiled of course08:05
l7_tigert: in practice, there are problems then?08:05
l7_hmm08:05
tigertor may need to08:05
dolfunlast i heard nokia will not release OS upgrades for n77008:05
l7_is recompiling something a linux amatuer could pull off?08:06
tigerti havent used the game emulators on neither the 770 or N80008:06
dolfunno08:06
l7_just run config and make with a few different switches?08:06
dolfunTak has done good work08:06
tigertpeople build packages for both generally08:06
l7_oh08:06
l7_is everything for the 770/800 open source?08:07
tigert what do you mean?08:07
dolfuni don't think opera is open source08:07
tigerta lot of the OS is, most 3rd party apps are08:07
l7_i guess the majority of the third party applications08:08
tigertgenerally the bundled apps are closed source for their UI but the underlying libraries are usually open08:08
tigertand yea, opera natuurally is not open08:09
l7_oh nice08:09
l7_seems like you could replace most of the system with open source applications if you wanted too08:09
l7_in theory08:09
dolfunl7_ get a bluetooth keyboard also08:10
tigertbut stuff like the voip call, its built using open source media framework and jabber etc components08:10
tigertdolfun, nah. i like the thumb keyboard more08:10
tigertworks just fine08:10
dolfunyou're not chatting with it now, are you08:10
tigertguess what i have been using while talking with you :)08:11
tigertyes, i am08:11
dolfunthen you are fast08:11
tigertand i  am disturbingly fast with this08:11
tigertbut it really works!08:11
dolfuni am very surprised ...08:12
l7_dolfun: any recommendations for the bt keyboard?08:12
tigertit is the best input method i have used in a handheld device08:12
dolfuni use the thinkoutside stowaway - took some adjusting but i am close to full speed on it now08:12
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tigerta bt keyboard is useless on the go08:13
tigertyou need a table08:13
l7_konfoo was saying the sierra is good08:13
dolfunjust something flat on my lap08:13
Tak|770I'm loving the thumb kb too08:13
l7_hrm08:13
tigerti chat a lot when walking etc.. the thumb keyboard on screen is perfect for that08:13
Tak|770although I no doubt lack tigert's blazing speed08:13
l7_ah nice08:13
tigertwith a bt keyboard there are two things to juggle around08:14
dolfuni need it, can't deal with the thumbboard08:14
tigertone learns quick :)08:14
l7_well i will use it a lot for taking notes in class08:14
l7_twhen i want a full size08:14
l7_but i also would like a thumbboard for walking and chatting08:14
tigertyea, for class the bt one is good since there is a table08:15
l7_is there a way of attaching the keyboard to the n800 / 770?08:15
tigertbut for mobile use this is a nice compromise08:15
dolfunoh and mahjong has me addicted now08:15
l7_tigert: which is the nice compromise?  the onscreen keyboard?08:15
tigertyes, the thumb keyboard08:16
l7_hmm08:16
l7_there is also the freedom mini08:16
l7_http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/bluetooth/freedom-input-mini-keyboard--it-loves-our-freedom-116004.php08:16
tigerti hate the small stylus keyboard - though with it you can see whwre you are typing08:16
l7_which looks pretty cool08:16
tigertwhere, even08:16
l7_but you'd still need to juggle when walking around08:16
tigertwhile the thumb board of course takes over the whole screen08:17
l7_it would be neat if the freedom mini had a small lcd strip at the top08:17
l7_tigert: what do you use to protect your screen?08:17
dolfunmaybe the n900 will superconducting quantum interference diodes to read brain patterns for typing08:17
dolfun+have08:17
* Shiiny would be happy with T9 on her 77008:17
l7_ha08:17
l7_steve jobs will be jealous08:18
l7_unless the iphone already has it08:18
l7_:)08:18
tigerti think the freedom mini is kinda a hardware version of the thumb kbd08:18
l7_pretty much08:18
tigertl7, why is everyone asking about screen protecting?08:19
l7_it looks like it would be a passable game controller too08:19
l7_tigert: i dunno i always ask about screen protecting08:19
tigertits meant to be poked at08:19
l7_with psps or n800s08:19
l7_so the screen is tough?08:19
tigertwell, my 770 screen is fine08:20
tigertand i abuse it a lot08:20
tigertand i am not paranoid about scratches since most of them would not be visible in normal use anyway08:20
Shiinyheh.. mine doesn't rotate... *sob*08:21
dolfun3 weeks of daily use and no visible scratches here08:21
l7_hrm, i'm a perfectionist08:21
tigertjust dont put it in the same pocket with your keychain or rock collection :)08:21
l7_there must be some kind of screen protector08:21
l7_is the screen replaceable by any chance?08:22
dolfunget a case08:22
tigertbut yea, i can understand it. its a $400 thing.08:22
l7_one thing about the PSP is that you can replace the faceplate which included the covering of the screen08:22
tigertyea, it comes with a felt pouch for storage08:22
Tak|770the rocks keep mine company :-p08:22
dolfunno hardshell?08:23
l7_hrm, it seems like a soft pouch could still scuff the case08:23
tigertno. but hey, get a third party one, or make one yourself08:23
tigertno wait08:23
tigerti think there was an accessory hard flap08:23
l7_hmm08:24
tigertbut its pretty tough device08:24
tigerti dont worry that much08:24
l7_wow nokia is selling a bt keyboard officially now08:24
l7_too bad it's $15008:24
l7_don't see a section for a hard case on their site08:25
l7_hey which store would you buy your n800 from if you were buying today?08:26
l7_i'm thinking about getting one of those extended warranties in case i drop it08:26
l7_i'm wondering who has the best return policy / extended warranty08:27
Shiinyfolks here know how to make my 770 accept bluetooth obex ?08:29
Shiinyvcals and such....08:29
Shiiny?08:30
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l7_http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11173176&whse=&topnav=&cat=08:33
l7_the ipaq looks like a joke compared the n80008:33
l7_considering it's running that godawful windows08:33
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dolfunsome people want the windows software to synchronize with their windows desktop08:38
l7_http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3458408:39
l7_i have a windows smartphone, the interface is so awful and bloated08:40
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tigerton nokia site -> accessories I can find a screen protector flap08:42
tigertbut I have never seen one in real life08:42
l7_weird, the 770's case is slide on off?08:42
l7_a flip case would be nice08:42
l7_nicer08:42
l7_tigert: url?08:42
tigertits a hinged flap it seems08:42
tigertbut the site is flash crap so I cannot url you08:42
l7_a hinge is nice08:43
l7_oh08:43
l7_is it nokiausa.com?08:43
l7_or nokia.coM?08:43
tigertlemme look08:43
tigertnokia.com >  europe > (next page) > uk > accessories > browse by phone > N80008:44
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tigertit doesnt seem to be in nokiausa.com08:45
l7_http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2006/08/brando-case-review.html08:45
l7_this is a nice 770 case08:45
l7_not sure if it fits the 80008:45
l7_ah08:45
l7_yeah i heard the cover came out in eu first08:45
l7_that looks like a really nice case actually08:46
dolfunso you have $580 for the n800 plus accessories?08:46
tigertyea, I think its a back cover replacement08:46
tigertbut I wouldnt need that08:46
tigertits goes just fine in the arse pocket of my jeans :)08:47
l7_$580?08:47
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dolfunkeyboard, case, sdram08:47
l7_1gb sd cards are $10 at staples this week :)08:47
l7_er $508:47
tigertI would be surprised if there would not be cases available by 3rd parties for the N800 also08:47
l7_keyboard is $7508:48
l7_case is $28 there08:48
l7_i guess it's still around $52008:48
l7_keyboard should work w/ my phone too08:48
l7_so it's kinda dual use08:48
dolfunright08:48
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l7_http://shop.brando.com.hk/btsmartkeyboard.php08:53
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sridarn, no quim09:18
srianyubody working on a port of Twisted?09:18
* sri wants to write an easy client to control his mythtv box.09:19
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l7_that sounds cool09:25
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ptmanhas someone been able to install gconf-editor on it2006?09:43
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osfameronwhere can I install canola for N800 from?09:49
osfameronI can't see the link from https://garage.maemo.org/projects/canola/09:50
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tigertafaik its not finished yet?09:56
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JaffaMorning, all10:38
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osfamerontigert: yeah, that might be it :-)  I saw a blog via planet maemo that mentioned the pre-beta release, maybe it's still invite only for now10:39
osfameronah yes, http://blog.locationist.net/2007/02/17/canola-10-beta-2-is-out/10:40
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Veggenosfameron: you'll find the beta 2 download via the blog.10:50
osfameronVeggen: the blog says "after the --jump--" where "jump" is crossed out10:50
Veggenhmm. It wasn't when I downloaded it.10:51
osfameronah, yes, he's removed the link as it wasn't official10:51
ptmanhave they fixed the sdl screen tear problem?10:56
Veggenptman: Not yet, afaik.10:56
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ptman=(11:00
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mk8Hi to all ...11:14
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AD-N770good morning11:26
mk8morning ...11:26
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maddlerre11:43
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disqhey, morning (slept till noon)11:55
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floriangood morning12:04
Jaffalo florian12:05
maddlerdoh... maemo is waking up!12:05
florian:-)12:05
c0ffeemoin :)12:06
Jaffaflorian: did you see the ITT thread where someone had improved GPE Calendar's home applet to be more consistent with the theme?12:06
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florianJaffa: no, not yet12:08
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Jaffaflorian: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=35266#post34622 - no sign of the changes12:10
disqi finally gave up on gtktextbuffer last night, will do gtkhtml if i can find some docs12:14
disqgtktextbufferserialize just sucks12:14
inzdisq, gtkhtml's generated html is butt ugly12:15
wumpusthen don't look at it :)12:15
disqgtktextbufferserialize creates dupe tags (with different names!) on each serialization pass12:15
disqi also discovered nokia again cheated and they're using an unknown "libwpeditor.so" component in notes12:16
disqi hate it when they do that :p12:17
wumpusman, another closed source component?12:18
disqin other news, i created a 770.ico from qgn_list_shell_mydevice.png and using it in the shortcut to putty-the-tablets12:18
disqinz: current maemo-blog doesn't work, (just crashes when you hit the offline button) known problem? (man that was a HUGE pile of dependencies btw)12:20
inzdisq, the offline mode is not yet implemented12:21
inzdisq, and the dependencies are pita, indeed12:21
inzdisq, I've not had any time/energy to work on it lately, it's till half-libsoup-half-xmlrpc-c based12:22
disq:)12:22
disqi was just checking it out, found it while i was looking for gtktextbuffer in google12:22
inzdisq, last time I tried to work on it, I found myself "porting" libsoup to openssl12:22
disqi'm not a power blogger or anything :p12:22
inzdisq, please don't copy any textbuffer code from there, it's butt ugly ;)12:23
disqyeah noticed12:23
disq:)12:23
inzdisq, I just hacked something quickly together to be able to test the backends12:23
disqi copied widget-set-icon and toggletoolbutton-set-insensitive stuff though :p (insensitive stuff doesn't seem to work maybe it's not in the current theme)12:24
inzdisq, I guess the insensitive toggle button isn't supported at all12:24
inzdisq, I really don't know why though12:24
inzdisq, as you might have guessed from the code, I like clever coding ;)12:25
inzdisq, readability and supportability be damned ;)12:25
disqi was too bummed when i discovered what gtktextbuffer_serialize_rich_text does, though. maybe i should keep the code but write my own serialize/deserialize (to html, for instance?) functions12:26
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inzdisq, well, it's nokia addition to textbuffer API, what did you expect from it, to work?-)12:30
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disqi wonder why they added it in the first place12:34
disqnotes doesn't use it anyway12:34
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inzI'd guess it's for state saving12:41
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disqthe point is it doesn't save very well. after each deserialization you have to filter out the dupe tags serialize() created :)12:42
inzphun12:42
inzI've really been meaning to rewrite the editor in maemo-blog as a widget12:43
inzAnd so that it would understand at least (x)html and markdown12:43
inzfor input and for output12:43
disqit works sure but the document size keeps growing and it becomes unmanagable after some point, too much tags to iterate thru to see if the iter is really "bold" or not12:43
wumpuslol, thatt sounds like the html widget java used to have, each time you loaded/saved/loaded/saved the file was bigger than before  :)12:44
wumpuscrazyness12:44
JohnMeachamhello, quick question, sorry if it is a FAQ, does the N800 have a real FPU? I only have a 770 and some FPU intesive stuff I am writing is somewhat slow on it and am wondering if I should take the time to port it to fixed point?12:44
inzdisq, I hope that the separation of the wpeditor and osso-notes means they're opening it...12:45
wumpusyes, it has a real fpu12:45
wumpusn770 only has emulation12:45
glas5is the fpu in it faster than using fixed point if it's feasible?12:46
wumpusfixed point is always faster if it's applicable, I think12:46
disqinz: or maybe it's just some other guy/team developed libwpeditor, or they just licensed it from somewhere. or maybe some other app (osso-email?) is also using that12:46
JohnMeachamwell. if all future units will have a real fpu, then I will spend my time on improving other parts of things than worrying about that.12:47
inzdisq, apt-cache rdepends wpeditor lists only osso-notes12:47
disqJohnMeacham: there's some talk in maemo-developers (and somewhere in planet.maemo.org) about optimized compiles of the system, if you're interested12:48
disqinz: good point :)12:48
disqinz: ooh it's open http://www.bleb.org/software/n800/os2007-src/wpeditor_1.01-1.tar.gz12:49
inzgreat12:49
inzwonder why it's not in the repository...12:50
JohnMeachamdisq:  i would think the one they ship would be optimized.. At least, I would hope. I ported jhc (my haskell compiler) to the 770, but am working on a new gesture/handwriting recognizer that is somewhta FP intensive at the moment. I have been testing with my 770, and found it somewhat slow.. but am hoping the 800 will "just work".12:50
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wumpusinz: yeah, one would wonder why everthing is so spread out instead of in one place12:51
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disqthe wp in wpeditor stands for "WordPad" btw. sheesh :p12:54
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disqnot word processing.12:54
JohnMeachamcurrently, it is based on a pretty straightforward model, take the timeseries of X events, differentiate it to get the velocity of the pen, and find the local minima of velocity. this gives you distinct 'strokes'. then do a pattern match on the strokes... it works great a lot od the time but is very brittle. if the stroke identification fails, then the whole thing fails, it can't recover. I am hoping to help that with some12:55
JohnMeacham smarter algorithms. hidden markov models are my current best hope. they seem to solve similar problems in speech recognition admirably...12:55
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disqJohnMeacham: you can also use the pressure data n800 reports, though it's somewhat limited. the 770 also has it but only works with xinput (and i'm not sure how good it is)12:56
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JohnMeachamyeah. I have played with that. I am not sure yet whether it helps with recognition, but the more data the better. I wish it had capacitive sensing, so it could sense the 'proximity' of the pen rather than when it was actually phisically pressing on the screen. the maemo platform is great, but the UI limitations are quite difficult to overcome. not that that is maemo specific, it is agenela problem with tablet computing.12:58
disqyeah, proximity would be great. also of course if the back of the stylus could be used for alternate input (eraser in a drawing program, etc)13:00
disqi wonder if it's possible to bring the device out of standby with a short press to the power button13:05
disqno such option in mce, wonder if it can be added13:05
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zbenjaminis someone here who uses maemoit2006 src with the new scratchbox?13:06
zbenjamini have problems with compiling the maemo_af_desktop package on it13:06
zbenjamini get a erroe message that tells me to use --host switch (but i use it)13:06
suihkulokkiyou have incorrect cpu transparency settings13:07
inzzben, are you sure your target is configured properly?13:07
zbenjaminsuihkulokki, is there something different comparing to the older scratchbox version?=13:08
zbenjamininz, not really13:08
zbenjamininz, it seems that i can not use a cpu transparency method13:08
zbenjamini'm not able to select qemu at target creation13:09
inzzben, you need to install the cputransparency devkit13:09
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zbenjaminwhere to get?13:11
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disqbtw, who is the official nokia gateway-person between developers and osso? i got questions/ideas about mce, media server and some other stuff13:11
inzzben, http://scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/deb/scratchbox-devkit-cputransp_1.0.1_i386.deb13:12
suihkulokkizbenjamin: ...where you got the rest of the scratchbox13:12
inzdisq, apt-cache show <packagename> shows a maintainer for each package, they should at least know whom to forward the mails to13:12
zbenjamininz, thx13:13
kaatiszbenjamin, you could also try the installer scripts from http://repository.maemo.org/stable/bora/13:13
kaatisfor setting scratchbox13:14
disqinz: mm good idea :)13:14
MagiIs there a nicer way of doing reset than taking the battery off?13:23
MagiHmm, the battery doesn't come off very easily, have to sha-ke.13:24
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MagiInteresting, my n800 had crashed in my pocket and was in some strange stuck state with display on.13:25
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florianJaffa: i see... very clever :-}13:27
zbenjaminkaatis, i do not use the bora release13:29
zbenjamininz, now it compiles thx13:29
zbenjamininz, does it make a difference which arm cpu transparency type i use?13:29
inzzben, I dunno -- I use the latest-and-the-greatest ;)13:32
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florianhi jpetersen13:53
zbenjamininz, should be okay ;-)13:54
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maddlerdamn... what a bad monday!!!14:12
Jaffaoh?14:16
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maddlertoo many idiots around...14:18
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maddlerthere should a rule agains idiots on monday morning...14:24
disquh14:24
koenthere should be a rule against monday mornings14:25
maddlerit sounds like they spent the whole w/e thinking about how to kill your patience...14:25
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disqi just sent a mail to the maintainer, proposing that mce/systemui should generate dbus messages for each keypress it receives when the device is locked or in softpoweroff14:35
disqthis could be used in media player applications (ie. to adjust volume) etc. hope I get a quick reply :)14:36
inzdisq, I think the keypad is turned off when the device is in "softpoweroff"14:38
disq"Currently even the interrupts from the14:45
disqkeypresses are disabled, to save power"14:45
disq(yep he replied rather quickly)14:45
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keesjdisq: I hope you find a good solution , I would guess that hardware buttons "just" generate interrupts14:47
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Toma-what is the default network interface name?14:59
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inzToma, for wlan it's wlan015:04
Toma-ok thanks.15:05
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keesjmaddler: why did you give the post such a bad title? why not the original? Worst-rated product that CNET readers love:15:09
maddlerkeesj: fixed :)15:16
keesjgood!15:16
maddlerbtw... CNET keep saying that 770 is a bad product... that wasn't me... ;)15:17
keesjalso discard my comment then :p15:17
maddlerhehe... done already... :)15:17
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kkitodid someone try the quake2 package that i made?15:36
Toma-how about quake 1?15:37
maddlerkkito: I tried that some time ago...and it worked...15:37
kkitomaddler, my package?15:38
disqsent another mail to the voip/chat maintainer about hooking the headset key. they're going to block my address on the nokia mailserver soon :p15:40
inzdisq, they're using outlook, does it have such features?-)15:42
disqtrue :P15:42
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kkitoi dont know who wants to make the n800 runs like a handsfree device... It is possible and it is not hard15:50
kkitoi did a handsfree connection with my phne and n80015:51
kkitothen you can interact with the phone with AT commands15:51
maddlerI don't remember... I could give it a try later this evening...15:51
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sbaturzioAloha!16:00
maddlersbaturzio: back from the crypt? :D16:01
sbaturziomaddler: (phone)16:02
Guard][anplease help, i need help about localizing gtk applications16:02
Guard][ani have a GtkButton with a label16:02
Guard][ani somehow understand that gettext enables me to have a different version of the label16:02
Guard][andepending on the locale16:02
Guard][anhowever, my button must be fixed size16:02
Guard][anas a consequence, how can i specify the font size depending on the local16:03
Guard][ane16:03
Guard][anand this font size should ideally come from the outside of my application16:03
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sbaturziomaddler: here I am16:07
sbaturzioI'm fighting with GPE-calendar and google ical files....seems GPE-calendar must be recompiled against N800 to let it work16:08
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Dakyllahi everyone16:11
Dakyllaim very happy, now i have my N80016:11
Dakylla:p16:11
Dakyllahow can i sync it with evolution please ?16:11
Dakyllai'll be interrested even bye a closed source solution16:12
Dakylla:s16:12
maddlersbaturzio: never tried that...16:13
maddlersbaturzio: tried Dates already?16:14
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sbaturziomaddler: yes but I don't like it, GPE seems a project more advanced than dates16:14
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Dakyllai did tried Dates too16:14
sbaturziobut GPE-calendar crash if connected to an online calendar.ical file16:14
Dakyllasbaturzio: same problem  here !!16:15
Dakyllatried witg google cal16:15
Dakyllawith16:15
Dakyllathat's really sad, there no way to sync this device with gnome :s16:15
Dakyllathere should be syncml implementation or something16:16
||cwDakylla: you can sync it using gpe-sync, but currently reoccuring events will cause it to fail16:19
||cwor at least, ical reoccuring events16:19
Dakyllacw: do i need gpesyncd for that ?16:20
sbaturzioso there should be a patched/recompiled version here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34622&postcount=4316:20
||cwDakylla: I don't recall the details16:20
sbaturziobut it need a libgcrypt11 not available with usual repositories16:20
Dakyllaok :)16:20
||cwI have added a google ical to gpe-cal before though, and it did work until I added a reoccuring event16:21
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Andy80hi16:24
Dakyllathe provided like complaine about dependencies libsoup/libgnutls/libasn/libgcrypt16:25
Dakyllahi Andy8016:25
Dakylla:s16:25
Andy80do you think it's possible to recompile "spim", the MIPS/assembly emulator, to the N770/800 devices?16:25
sbaturzioDakylla: in that post they say recompile gpe-calendar against N800 environment should solve the problem16:30
sbaturziobut we still need that missing libs16:30
Dakyllasbaturzio: i tried to recompile, but the maemo sdk installed by the script,  is not working16:31
Dakyllagonna try manual install16:33
||cwAndy80: only one way to know...16:34
Andy80||cw: I'll try :)16:36
disqGuard][an: use a atoi(_("somethingbutton_font_size")) as the fontsize? though check if you have another option, using gtk theming somehow16:36
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Andy80||cw: I switched to SDK_ARMEL, I did run configure, make, make install... it seems to run without errors, in the scratchbox at least :)16:39
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Andy80||cw: I'll try to build a package now16:39
Guard][anyeah i was looking at gtk theming16:40
Guard][anbut it means that i need to have a different gtkrc file per locale16:40
Guard][ancould work16:40
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Com1Can the memory on the N800 be upgraded past 128?16:41
maddlerCom1: can't get what you mean...16:42
Com1is the memory upgradable16:42
Com1can i upgrade16:43
VeggenCom1: nope. Or, I dunno if you can hack it.16:43
VeggenCom1: however, it does support 128MB swap on the internal SD card.16:44
bergienow, this would be cool to get to Maemo... http://www.conduit-project.org/16:45
Dakyllabergie: i tried this too :)16:45
Dakyllatoo buggie for the moment :)16:46
bergieyeah, it looks quite experimental so far16:46
bergiebut anyway Maemo needs some synchronization framework16:46
Dakyllabergie: deadly !!16:46
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Com1ok guys. Who here has tried www.youos.com on your internet tablet?16:51
Com1if so, what do you think?16:51
Com1or eyeos.info16:52
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Handful__I know gustavo announced here friday : but I've just launched the site, and added canola beta 2 to the application catalogue16:54
Handful__http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/16:54
Handful__=)16:54
Dakyllawow wondefull16:55
Com1youos.com is an operating system16:55
Dakyllai like the website16:55
bergiecool... http://downloads.maemo.org/product/canola/16:56
Handful__=) yeah16:57
osfameronwoot!16:57
Handful__I've just added it bergie =)16:57
Handful__the site was made yesterday-today so please if you find (there must be alot) mistake.. send to me..16:57
thomasvsdoes it play ogg ?16:57
Handful__I was almost sleeping =) and here in finland with that cold out there.. I was supposed to be sleeping at 4am lol16:58
Handful__thomas, if you device plays it... it plays. We don't ship with .ogg support instalations or anything16:58
Handful__I think I will place this on the FAQ, its a good one16:58
thomasvsHandful__: well, it needs to play ogg if it wants to be the "ultimate" media player16:59
osfameronogg out of the box would be nice.  Having said that, it's probably nokia's job to get it working rather than canola17:00
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thomasvsosfameron: I'm just a user looking at a page that says this is the ultimate media player :)17:05
osfameronthomasvs: yeah, guess so :-)17:06
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Com1no midi yet on internet tablets?!?!?!17:13
keesj./xmoto -drawlib SDLGFX -win -res 800x600 -level 417:15
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keesj./xmoto -drawlib SDLGFX -win -res 800x600 -level 417:15
keesjoops17:16
Taklol17:16
* Tak executes xmoto for you17:17
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Handful__thomasvs: ok ok =) but I think osfameron has a point there..17:19
Handful__working in the basic level, is not our purpose and we don't have a team for that : / we would like to..17:20
Handful__I think that as it doesn't play lets say, wmv with DRM, apple's itunes I need to change the tag line =) eheheh17:21
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disqooh the new canola site17:23
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zbenjaminwhat is the default runlevel of the n770 ?17:23
keesjdid anybody read the canola license agreement?17:24
mgedminzbenjamin: 2, check /etc/inittab17:24
keesjIn the first paragraph they refer to the "software described below" and in the second the software described above :)17:25
disqHandful__: is 1.0.1-1indt6 the latest? i'm asking because check for updates won't show me an update17:25
dwdkeesj: Obviously you have to read between the lines.17:26
Takthere's a description in between in a really tiny font17:26
zbenjaminmgedmin, so if i want to start a daemon per default i have to add its script in rc2.d17:27
mgedminyes17:28
mgedminnote that rcS.d is ignored, which was pretty surprising for me17:28
zbenjaminmgedmin, so i have to use rc0.d for shutdown?17:28
mgedminisn't that rc6? or is that reboot?17:28
Handful__disQ yes :17:29
mgedminanyway, update-rc.d with defaults works fine17:29
Handful__in the splasj is r2454M the version17:29
mgedminrcS is generally the startup one, the one that is run before running 1..5, but on the 770 it is not used17:29
keesjMS-TinyDammSmallFont[tm]17:29
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mgedmininvisible ink?17:30
mgedminhave you tried holding the tablet over fire?17:30
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zbenjaminmgedmin, okay thx for the help17:30
Takhahaha17:30
zbenjaminbtw does someone know where the iputils package is gone? i can not find it for it2006 .. maybe i have to look a bit longer?17:31
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lardmanWould it be possible to get a kernel driver compiled for 2.6.10 (for example) to run under 2.6.18? What degree of fiddling would be necessary?17:34
mgedminlardman: a simple recompiling should do17:35
mgedminnothing less, I expect17:35
lardmanmgedmin: Ah, that;s the problem, binary only17:35
mgedminthat's generally the problem with binary-only modules17:35
lardmanI know. I was wondering whether any major changes in the kernel driver subsystems have occurred between these releases, or whether all that would be needed is a hex editor to change the version string, etc.17:36
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disqpowervr eh :)17:39
lardmanindeed17:40
lardman:)17:40
wumpusyou have the binary driver for powervr?17:40
keesjA contest for better lokking canola home applet is really a must. I hope that this time I will get it running ,it looks very nice!17:40
lardmanNo, but I'm talking to a chap at Ti who says that a driver for the 2420 exists for 2.6.1017:40
disqwell the legal option would be to compile 2.6.10 (backport some required drivers like touchscreen wifi etc) and use it on the device17:41
wumpusmm I would go with the more interesting maybe-less-legal option17:41
lardmandisq: Would be a shame to have to move everything else backwards17:41
lardmanI just don't know whether that option is a goer17:41
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disqwumpus: i would too but i don't think you can distribute it on maemo.org that way :)17:42
wumpusanyway most binary only drivers have an open source wrapper so you can compile them for any kernel version17:42
lardman*most*17:42
wumpusdisq: if it's owned by ti you cannot distribute it there anyway17:42
wumpusone would have to make a cleanroom implementation17:42
wumpusand that's a huge amount of work for a 3d engine :p17:42
disqyou could instruct people to get the driver from this url (pepperpad3.com/drivers/etc/etc/driver.ko.gz) and put it in /home/user and then install an app/script that copies it over, etc17:42
wumpusyou could also wrap the 2.6.10 driver in a 2.6.18 driver17:43
lardmanOr if the Ti 2.6.10 sdk became openly available, you could apply a binary patch, if that would work17:43
wumpusa compatibility layer17:43
wumpusif they can do that with windows drivers, why not :)17:43
lardmanInteresting thought17:44
wumpusit'd probably be very thin anyway17:44
lardmanWell there's already an openly available 2.4.x driver17:44
lardmanbut that would need more work17:44
lardmanI imagine17:44
wumpusyeah I imagine too17:44
disqit's actually here: http://updates.pepper.com/pub/pepperpad/sources/pepperpad2/3.0.3/pvrdrv.ko.tar17:44
wumpusthat's the 2.4 or 2.6 one?17:45
disq(kkito found this url like 2 weeks ago)17:45
wumpusand how the hack did you get it :)17:45
disqwumpus: vermagic=2.6.13.4 preempt ARMv5 gcc-3.417:45
wumpuswow17:45
disq(i got the url from my irc chat log :P)17:45
wumpusyeah, but I mean the person that uploaded it there17:46
Handful__hey kessj I think you can just change the .png for it =)17:46
wumpusa 'strings' on that driver reveals17:46
wumpuslicense=GPL17:46
wumpuswhatever?17:46
disqyeah. they should make the source public if somebody talked to them17:47
lardmanThe URL came from a chap on the omap-open-source list, from his blog to be exact17:47
disqor if not a lawyer could solve it17:47
wumpusbut I doubt it will work, as nokia doesn't use the 3d chip in its hardware17:47
wumpusbut some crappy external lcd controller17:47
lardmanI have a feeling they simply made a mistake with the license17:47
lardmanthe 3D chip doesn't write directly to the screen, so I'm not sure it would matter17:48
wumpusohh17:48
wumpusso it's a 3d chip that writes to memory?17:48
wumpusthat's creepy :)17:48
lardmanThat driver is also for different hardware, and a different type of MBX17:48
wumpusbut makes sense17:48
lardmanI think it would be better to concentrate on the OMAP2420 specific one17:49
wumpustrue17:49
disqlardman: yeah, maybe copied over some stub code and forgot to change the license. though the module also says imagination tech as author, so they changed it alright17:49
wumpusif one could find a driver for that17:49
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wumpusalso, I guess this goes with a GL drier?17:49
wumpusdriver*17:50
lardmandisq: Perhaps they didn't like the users seeing the tainted warning ;)17:50
wumpuswith only the kernel module you're still nowhere17:50
Guard][anpff too bad gtk does not have anything like css for theming17:50
Guard][anqt's stylesheets are very sexy17:50
lardmanwumpus: Yes, the kernel driver is only part of the way I agree17:50
wumpuslardman: hehe there's teh \0 hack for that17:50
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disqGuard][an: make your app load a ${LOCALE}.rc?17:50
wumpuslicense=GPL\0propatiary17:50
disqwumpus: lol, that works?17:51
wumpusyes, there was an article on the linux mailing list about it, they are now patching it :)17:51
Guard][andisq: well it's not only that problem, css enables to layout stuff, gtkrc doesn't :)17:51
disqlicense=GPL\0we ownzor j0017:51
disqGuard][an: ooh. that's sexy.17:51
disqGuard][an: though there's glade for that :P17:52
disq(glade, which i really don't like btw)17:52
Guard][anhmm i'm not familiar with glade17:53
Guard][anthe way i understand it is that it offers an xml description for your gui17:53
Guard][anbut hierarchy information and positioning are in the same xml file17:53
disqyeah the interface is in a xml file, libglade loads it and hooks the events etc17:53
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Guard][anwhat's good with xhtml+css is that you can change the stylesheet and move the elements17:54
bipolarIs anyone using a bluetooth headset? I'd like to get one for making gizmo calls.17:54
mgedminthe .gtkrc files a re a little-bit css-like17:54
disqglade just used to be a interface designer and code generator back in 98/9917:54
Guard][annot only change the background and colors17:54
mgedminonly you cannot modify spacing in them, afaiu17:54
Guard][anyeah and gtkrc is just a place holder17:54
Guard][anit all depends on your theme engine17:54
Tak|workI'm just glad that a gtkrc isn't interpreted differently by every app17:54
wumpuswow, at least that module has a lot of debugging symbols17:55
disqbipolar: i don't think they're properly supported at this point. there was some talk about it in maemo-users last week17:55
Guard][anlike, googling for shaped windows, i just discovered that sapwood enhanced pixmap engine to allow for shaped windows17:55
Guard][anpixmap/pixbuf engine is somehow limited17:55
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bipolardisq: I guess I should subscibe to that list then17:55
disqlet me try to find that mail17:56
bipolardisq: thanks!17:56
disqbipolar: somebody did this with a 770, though he couldn't get it to play audio (yet) http://maemo.org/maemowiki/BluetoothHeadsetHacking17:57
keesjat least MS is not to proud to offer a reboot option :P17:58
bipolardisq: thank you17:58
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disqbipolar: and this is another thread about bt headsets, rather long: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/1658217:59
disq:)17:59
c0ffeesomebody being me18:00
disqoh :)18:00
bipolardisq: you've been very helpful :)18:00
disqpenguin-breeder.org eh18:01
keesjbipolar: there is also a package that is supposed to do something with bt headsets but I have note tried it yes https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=365&group_id=63&atid=29518:01
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disqbipolar: you're welcome :)18:02
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wumpusdamn, maemo supports no insmod -f18:10
wumpusI wondered what would happen when I'd force insert the pvrdrv :)18:10
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suihkulokkiwumpus: a 1MB .ko for a different chip, kernel and SoC?18:12
lardmanI've had a google, and can't find any examples of binary driver wrappers (of linux drivers that is, not ndiswrapper, etc.)18:12
keesjHandful__ I am not a very good artist :(18:13
lardmanI've enquired of Ti whether the 2.6.10 SDK is available, that would be a better start18:14
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dwdWhy do people keep asking about stateful inspection firewalls on the N800? Makes no sense at all.18:24
disqdo they?18:25
dwddisq: Well, it's come up a few times on the list.18:26
mgedminbe happy no one is asking for antivirus software :)18:26
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revhuh.18:26
dwdmgedmin: Oh, don't even say it.18:27
revis anyone from nokia here?18:27
revespecially someone who might have a connection to the N800 developer program?18:27
Tak|workI think it's partially because the n800 has that weird "autoconnect, but don't allow connections from outside if the connection seems to be idle" behavior18:27
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dwdrev: If you've got problems there, try dropping Quim Gil an email.18:28
revdwd: no problems, just wanted to share a success story ... i was chosen for the N800 developer program, purchased it, then sold my 770 to a fellow developer, a very smart and capable guy whose never done any mobile development but wanted to start, for the price i got my N800 for18:29
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revso while i was definately dubious on the value of the program, i've changed my mind18:29
dwdTak|work: I suspect that's not actually intentional, but a byproduct of shutting down the wlan stuff so far that it doesn't generate interrupts. I'm a little nervous how that'll affect long-running connections, actually.18:30
revbecause while my status didn't change much in a way, nokia getting me that cheap N800 both brought me up to date and the programs i maintain, but also brought someone else into the fold18:30
Tak|workrev: he actually came in here last week18:30
revah cool18:30
revBrianRice ?18:30
* rev was on his honeymoon last week18:30
revbut i managed to send it off to him before we left18:30
Tak|worksomething like that18:30
dwdrev: The value of the program for me, aside from the obvious, was that I made the marketing guy at work hugely jealous, because he's only got a 770. :-)18:30
Tak|workdwd: it doesn't act like it's shut down from the device side, though18:31
revdwd: hehe18:31
dwdTak|work: Yeah, it's things like what happens if the IMAP server sends a push after 20 minutes of inactivity.18:32
Tak|workyeah18:32
Jaffadwd: marketing guys usually get the cool toys, so that's excellent :)18:32
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dwdJaffa: Exactly. He called me names for the entire week I was in the office. :-)18:32
revhaha18:34
keesjGreat canola found the google maps :)18:35
revkeesj: what do oyu mean?18:35
JaffaIn "Pictures", presumably.18:35
Tak|workyeah, I removed my maps dir from the search18:35
disqyeah i did that too18:36
JaffaHmm, how do I get Maemo Mapper to download maps at multiple zoom levels for a given area? The website doesn't seem to mention it and intuitive it wasn't.18:36
disqJaffa: it's in download maps... dialog lemme check18:37
mgedminhow do I remove the maps dir from the search?18:38
Jaffadisq: I found the dialogue but couldn't work out how to use it without knowing lots of lat/longs18:38
mgedmindo I have to remove the whole mmc root, and then add the mp3 directories manually?18:38
Tak|workthat's what I did18:38
disqmgedmin: open canola conf, remove the /media/mmc2 and add your specific media directories instead18:38
Tak|workexcept I had all my mp3 dirs in /media/mmc2/music18:38
mgedminthought so18:38
keesjI takes some time to get used to the "interface" but I guess I is a killer app18:39
disqJaffa: the zoom tab doesn't work? (though i use winmapper and then tar the contents, move it over to the n800 via scp, untar)18:39
Tak|workI wonder what prompted the decision to make the config tool web-based18:39
disqmaybe they just don't like stock gtk? :P18:40
Tak|workthey could have put it inside the canola interface then18:40
dwdTak|work: Because teh web is kewl.18:40
keesjdisq: development time?18:40
JaffaTak|work: apparently they want it configurable from their PCs18:41
mgedminyeah, the web-only config tool was a bad design decision in my arrogant opinion18:41
Tak|workI agree18:41
dwdJaffa: Telomer's configurable from a PC, and doesn't use teh web. :-)18:41
mgedminslow startup, cumbersome ui, another unnecessary username/password pair18:41
Tak|workbuggy ui18:42
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partmgedmin: not to mention that the config thing doesn't actually work18:42
Jaffadwd: heh18:42
mgedminI didn't see anything worth configuring in it :)18:42
Jaffamgedmin: "Allow local web connections only" would be one18:42
mgedminit's set to a sane setting by default18:42
Jaffadisq: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=17&group_id=29&atid=188 suggests it's not possible without writing down the co-ordinates I want18:43
mgedminnow it could allow paswordless configuration over localhost18:43
partor it could be a proper gui tool18:44
fish_re18:44
disqJaffa: it auto-fills the coords in the area tab. you just "zoom out enough" so that your area is covered, then select specific zoom steps to download18:44
Jaffadisq: I see.18:46
fish_btw: is it possible to enter coordinates by hand?18:46
fish_-> enter the coordinates with the keyboard18:46
Jaffamgedmin: I thought it was set to bind to 0.0.0.0 which is hardly sane in my book (depends if you trust the Canola guys to write a secure web server, I suppose ;-))18:46
disqJaffa: just downloaded around 800 images, so it works for me :p18:47
dwdJaffa: u/p sent by Basic auth over unencrypted connection?18:47
* dwd is just guessing.18:48
Jaffadwd: No, form-based login IIRC (again, unencrypted)18:48
thomasvshm, so canola asked me for an admin pw, then a user and password18:48
thomasvsand that is before it has done anything useful yet :)18:48
dwdAh. Sniffer-tastic.18:48
Guard][anhaha18:49
Guard][an* src/pixbuf-draw.c (draw_simple_image): Never shape18:49
Guard][anthe window, even if we are allowed to. Shaping is18:49
Guard][anugly -- if the widget isn't NO_WINDOW (most are),18:49
Guard][anyou'll just have to draw it rectangular.18:49
thomasvsI wish I could figure out the web ui's desire when it presents me with the media library18:49
thomasvsgreen arrows, red arrows, and some paths18:49
Guard][anfrom the pixbuf engine changelog, great assertion, reminds me "640ko is enough ...18:49
Guard][an"18:49
mgedminJaffa: dwd: canola popped up a basic http authentication dialog18:52
mgedminI don't recall if there was ssl involved18:52
dwdmgedmin: Ah, using that powerful base64 encoding.18:52
disqstop with the sarcasm please :)18:53
dwdmgedmin: Doubtful, since most http clients can't handle ADH, so it'd need a certificate, and you'd have endless fun and games with dialog boxes moaning about it.18:53
Jaffamgedmin: ah yes, it was form-based to ask for the admin password to set18:53
mgedminADH... ?18:53
dwdCert-less encryption in TLS.18:55
dwdNo mutual auth, just encryption. (Usually 256-bit AES)18:55
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mgedminwikipedia doesn't know that19:03
lardmanAh shame, Ti only has a driver that supports the dev board, not something with output19:04
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bipolarhmm... my n800 just locked up then rebooted :\19:11
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mgedminbipolar: you may want to check http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ReportingRebootIssues19:12
Andy80I think I need a little help with the creation of a package :\ I've followed this guide: http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/index.en.html to create a .deb package for my N770. The package was created, I successfully installed it on my N770, but..... only /usr/share/ stuff is present. No bin at all. What could be wrong?19:17
dwdmgedmin: Hmmm. I know more than Wikipedia. (Including how to spell encyclopædia, of course)19:18
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mgedminAndy80: the 'install' rule in debian/rules19:19
bipolarmgedmin: thanks!19:19
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Andy80mgedmin: can I copy the rule file somewhere, so you can give it a look?19:20
mgedminAndy80: sure, try http://pastey.net19:20
Andy80mgedmin: http://pastebin.ca/36374219:21
Andy80mgedmin: the problem is that debian/spim/ contains only usr/share/ folder, no usr/bin at all19:22
mgedminwhat does your Makefile do?19:22
Andy80mgedmin: I paste it too...19:22
Andy80mgedmin: http://pastebin.ca/36374719:24
mgedmindum-de-dum19:25
mgedminyour Makefile ignores $(DESTDIR)19:26
mgedminfix it19:26
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mgedminBIN_DIR = $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin19:26
mgedminetc19:26
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mgedminalso for EXCEPTION_DIR and MAN_DIR19:26
Andy80mgedmin: where is $(DESTDIR) defined?19:28
mgedminit's a command-line argument passed to make in debian/rules19:28
mgedminline 5919:29
Andy80ok... I fixed the Makefile19:29
Andy80now I try to re-run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot :)19:29
Andy80mmm.... errors19:31
Andy80I paste them....19:31
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Andy80mgedmin: http://pastebin.ca/36375519:31
osfamerongosh, canola takes a while to "configure local database"19:32
mgedminchange the install rule in Makefile by adding -D to the arguments of 'install'19:32
mgedmini.e. 'install -c -s -D spim $(BIN_DIR)"19:33
mgedminetc19:33
Andy80mgedmin: infact, the debian/spin/ is empty now19:33
Andy80mgedmin: ok...19:33
partmgedmin: actually, that should be $(DESTDIR)/bin, as DESTDIR tends to be something like /usr or /usr/local19:34
mgedminpart: you're confusing DESTDIR with PREFIX19:35
partah, yes, I am19:35
Andy80mgedmin: no errors now :)19:35
bipolarI need an edge (celular internet) to bt gateway....19:35
mgedminyay19:35
Andy80mgedmin: I'm going to try it on n770 ;) let's cross our fingers!19:35
mgedminbipolar: it's called a "mobile phone" :)19:35
bipolarmgedmin: I have one, but it doesn't do edge :\19:36
bipolarI have an edge card for my laptop, and USB ones just came out.19:36
bipolarI can connect to the internet though my phone, but it's too damn slow :p19:37
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mgedminthere's also 3G with its own confusing set of acronyms19:39
Andy80mgedmin: I get this error, installing the package: trying to overwrite directory `/usr/bin' in package libglib2.0-dev with nondirectory19:40
mgedminsomething's wrong then19:40
Andy80yes19:40
mgedminah, I know19:40
mgedminI think19:40
mgedminedit the makefile again19:40
mgedminmake it install -c -s -D spim $(BINDIR)/spim19:41
mgedminor perhaps two rules: -mkdir -p $(BINDIR) followed by the original install -c -s spim $(BINDIR) without the -D19:41
tkohmm, usually it's $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR)/whatever19:41
mgedminperhaps that's a good idea... I suggested Andy80 change the BINDIR definition to include $(DESTDIR)19:42
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mgedminI have done little packaging, so I don't know what is the "standard" way of doing things19:42
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* Tak|work kicks xchat's build system19:43
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Andy80mgedmin: so, the final string is: install -c -s -D spim $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR)/spim19:44
Andy80?19:44
tkomgedmin, that should work as long as you don't need it without the $(DESTDIR) :)19:44
mgedminAndy80: only if you've changed the BINDIR definition back to what it was (i.e. without $(DESTDIR))19:44
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mgedminDESTDIR needs to be included in the command exactly once: either directly, or indirectly through BINDIR19:45
Andy80mgedmin: my lines are: BIN_DIR = $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin19:45
Andy80and EXCEPTION_DIR = $(DESTDIR)/usr/lib19:45
jaekuis there a one-stop guide for using the auto build tools? i dont know where to start...19:45
mgedminalso you'll need to make the same modification to the install line that installs exceptions.s19:45
Andy80yes19:45
mgedminthat is, repeat the file name after the destination directory19:45
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mgedminbecause otherwise install -D will think you want a file named 'lib'19:46
keesjthe package manager and the posibilities to become root using the package manager are real security issues imho19:46
Andy80so BIN/EXC... are modified... now I change the install to: install -c -s -D spim $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR)/spim19:46
Andy80right?19:46
mgedminno19:46
mgedmininstall -c -s -D spim $(BINDIR)/spim19:46
mgedminbecause you said your BINDIR already includes DESTDIR19:47
Andy80ah okok19:47
mgedminjaeku: the autoconf book: http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/19:47
jaekucool, thanks19:48
Andy80mgedmin: ok, rebuilt, let's try again :)19:49
Andy80mgedmin: at least, now I got no errors executing dpkg --install on the scratchbox... I hope it will work on n770 too19:50
bipolarHas anyone gotten a word processor or spreadsheet working on an 800?19:50
tkobipolar, there's abiword and gnumeric19:51
tkonot sure about port status though :-]19:51
bipolartko: yeah, not for 800 :(19:51
c0ffeetko, didn't you say the sources of the itos (at least the gpl part) was available somewhere on maemo.org?19:51
jaekuhas anyone written anything that makes my tablet into a mobile hotspot using my phone's connection?19:51
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Andy80mgedmin: it works!!!!19:52
Andy80yeaaaahhh :D19:52
Andy80my first .deb "serious" package, without using checkinstall ;)19:53
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bipolarjaeku: that would be an interesting thing....19:53
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jaekufo sho ;)19:53
revforilla19:53
jaekui have other great ideas too ^_^19:54
tkoc0ffee, http://www.maemo.org/downloads/Nokia_N800_OS.php19:54
jaekunone which i can reveal... otherwise i'd have to kill you all19:54
tkovery well hidden...19:54
c0ffeetko, ah thanks19:55
Andy80mgedmin: should I put this package somewhere, so other people can use it?19:56
mgedminprobably19:56
mgedminI don't even know what it is :)19:56
mgedminyou could create a garage project, I suppose, and upload both the source and binary packages there19:56
Andy80mgedmin: it's a mips emulator that runs mips-assembly code19:57
mgedminand then upload it into maemo extras, like suggested here: src/ivija/review/eversheds/browser.py19:57
Tak|workor use mud-builder19:57
mgedminand add an entry on downloads.maemo.org19:57
Tak|workif the changes to upstream source are trivial19:57
Andy80I'll create a little page on my wiki in the meantime19:57
mgedminI still haven't figured out how to use mud-builder properly19:57
mgedminit produces somewhat strange packages19:58
jaekuAndy80: what is the emulator called?19:58
mgedmine.g. I see no way to specify a version number, or add debian/changelog entries explaining what I did19:58
Andy80jaeku: spim19:58
Tak|workwouldn't that be part of your patch?19:58
jaekuoh, cool... i have a senior design project in the works that will utilize spim... GET IT WORKING ON MY 770!!!!!!!!19:59
disqc0ffee: this is easier, http://www.bleb.org/software/n800/os2007-src/19:59
jaekuAndy80: is it for the 800 or the 770?20:00
Andy80jaeku: I built it in 2.2/maemo scratchbox and I run it on 770, but I think it will run on 800 too... wanna try?20:00
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jaekuAndy80: well, not right now... if it gets in the apps list i'll defintely use it soon20:01
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Andy80jaeku: the funny thing is that I started studying mips assembly.... just this morning :D20:02
* jaeku hates how the 800 and the 770 have separate software repos... sucks for the users in the end20:02
jaekuAndy80: cool, i took an architecture class where the the main architecture was mips20:02
Tak|workwould suck more if there was a bunch of software listed in the 770 repo that couldn't be installed20:02
jaekuAndy80: and now i have a senior design class where the prof from that class is making us make an arm->mips binary converter20:03
Andy80:)20:03
pbrookjaeku: Use qemu :-)20:03
jaekupbrook: yeah, that is on my list of emus to investigate20:03
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timelessjaeku: *shrug*20:04
pbrookThe mips backend is probably bitrotted, but not that hard to fix.20:04
timelessthe systems don't have identical software20:04
timelessso things don't actually work correctly if you put them together20:04
timelesswhy does each linux distro/version have its own repo?20:04
* timeless thinks the answer is to waste space20:04
jaekutimeless: i'm talking about how maemo segragates the two machines... they should have a single API for all machines20:05
pbrookWhy?20:05
jaekuso you have a larger software pool and so developers dont have to work on maintaining two projects?20:05
timelessjaeku: the problem is that they chose to bump the apis for random components between 2006 and 200720:05
timelessit's the linux way20:05
timelessis it smart? nah20:05
timelessbut it's more fun20:05
timelessdivide and conquer, right?20:06
pbrookThe only relistic way to make that happen is to make os2007 run on the n770.20:06
timelessthere's a garage project by that name20:06
jaekuyeah, so they are dropping support for the 770 if they dont make os2007 for the 77020:06
timelessum20:06
timelessi just got a 770 today20:06
timelessi'm supposed to take it w/ me to fosdem20:06
timelessnot quite sure why20:06
jaekui hate companies that drop support for hardware that is only a year old20:07
parttimeless: why?20:07
timelesswhy?20:07
timelesshow should i know?20:07
* timeless looks at back20:07
jaekui had tons of respect for nokia before they started to segratate the two machines20:07
timelessyep, it says "certified gopher"20:07
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partwhy are you supposed to take it to fosdem?20:07
* timeless points to the "certified gopher" sticker20:07
jaekutimeless: what do you mean gopher? you from UMN?20:07
pbrookjaeku: Not supporting cuppoorting new OS releases on old hardware is somewhat different from dropping support.20:07
timeless'Ours note reason why, ours but to do or die'20:08
Com1does OMAP 2420 support midi?20:08
timelesseep20:08
* timeless sighs20:08
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timeless ("Ours is not to reason why . . . Ours is but to do or die.20:08
timelesssomethinig like that20:08
mk8Hi to all ...20:08
* timeless wants the risk version20:08
timelesswhich is something like20:09
timeless"Ours is not to question why, ours is to do or die"20:09
timelessbut google is flaking on me20:09
partjaeku: how long are mobile phones usually supported, a year?20:09
timelessjaeku: gopher this, gopher that20:09
timelessjaeku: it's part of the origin of the gopher name in context20:09
timelessgopher this (get me this), gopher that (get me that)20:10
timeless"go for"20:10
jaekuoh..20:10
* timeless concludes jaeku is a finn20:10
* pbrook points at most other year-old PDA/smartphone-like devices that are running crufty versions of wince/palm/symbian20:11
jaekunope, i'm a social mutt, mix between american and korean culture20:11
timelessinteresting20:11
timelessyou should have known gopher :(20:11
jaekui wish i was a finn... i hate the US20:11
jaekunah, i go to the UofM so when you said gopher, i thought you went there too ;)20:12
jaekugopher is the UofM's mascot20:12
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timelessUofMN you mean20:12
timelessi went to a UofM20:12
jaekuyeah, you are right...20:13
timelessi think mine might be cannonical20:13
timelesssince iirc it's UMich, not UofM20:13
jaekuanyone know the s60 API well enough to know if it would be possible to write a HID software keyboard for it?20:14
timelesssimilarly, UMass, UMiss20:14
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Tak|workUMinn?20:14
timelessand you never hear about missouri :)20:14
kkitoCom1, if you want midi support you can compile timidity for the n80020:14
timelesstak: nah, see scrollback :)20:14
jaekutimeless: well, the domain for my school is umn.edu so UMN makes more sense... all the locals here know what you mean by UofM so it kinda slipped20:14
Tak|workI've been seeing20:14
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konfooumn.. lol.. you know about mapserver then?20:15
timelessdunno, i think perhaps every M thinks it's UofM :)20:15
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Tak|workhmm - freecol looks like it would be a great IT game if we had java20:16
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timelessanyway, looks like i'm wrong about UofM, oh well :)20:16
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timelessYou are currently using 2759 MB (98%) of your 2819 MB.20:18
timelessouch20:18
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Tak|workaww, I'm only at 15% - I guess I need to subscribe lkml or something20:18
timelessbugzilla works wonders20:18
timeless'course, it helps to get bugmail for all changes to all public bugs20:19
timelessat this rate, i'm gauranteed to run out long before april :(20:19
timelessmid march if i'm really lucky20:19
* jaeku is scared to look at the os2007 app list20:20
disqat 38% here20:21
disqi had 5000 messages from lkml it was 45%-ish20:21
disqthen i unsubscribed and purged them all20:21
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maddlerback20:26
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rhsanbornWhat client do you you guys use for vid chat?20:36
Sulisanyone think it's worth paying extra for a class 6 sdhc card than a class 2 sdhc card?20:37
Com1i installed the FM prog for the n800, i can't find it to load it up20:38
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Tak|workdesktop applets menu?20:39
rhsanbornCom1, its only a desktop applet20:39
Com1huh? i can't find it20:40
melmothyou can launch it from an xterm as well.20:40
Com1i downloaded it20:40
Com1i don't have xterm20:40
feruloey, can anyone here upload a video to youtube?20:40
Com1:p20:40
sbaturzioCom1: select an applet from "desktop"20:40
* melmoth could not live wihtout a shell.20:40
ferulohttp://www.gnome.org/~fherrera/fridayvideo1.ogg20:40
rhsanbornGo to the desktop and tap the home menu up top20:41
sbaturzioCom1: you should see a list of available applets, fm radio is in it20:41
feruloI don't know if youtube understand theora videos... I can provide an avi version of it20:41
rhsanbornI wish unzip was available :(20:42
Tak|workit is20:42
Sulislol, in xterm20:42
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rhsanbornGunzip is in xterm. Unzip didn't work for me20:43
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Tak|workhttp://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/mistral/free/u/unzip/unzip_5.52-10_armel.deb20:44
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rhsanbornThx Tak|work20:46
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Com1Great.thnks Sbaturzio20:46
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jaekuis there a channel for s60 related topics?21:03
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MDKs60?21:04
jtracool, this prank works with 770 too, http://koolestone.blogspot.com/2007/02/if-you-are-sitting-next-to-someone-who.html21:04
jaekusymbian os7~21:05
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tkoMDK, Series 6021:08
jaekui want to know hwo much control you have over the bluetooth interface... i want to write a HID bluetooth keyboard for it21:08
rhsanbornI know that someone had ported vim to the 770. Anyone know if it works on the 800?21:09
jaekui have my phone with me all the time, and i type like a demon with it, so i want to use it as a keyboard for my 77021:09
mgedminrhsanborn: yep21:09
rhsanbornmgedmin, thx. Know if its avail viia maemo garage? Or should i just google it?21:10
keesjjaeku: that should farely easy21:12
mgedminrhsanborn: I built a vim package with all the bells and whistles (but it weighs 20 megs when installed)21:12
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keesjbut if you want to use the phone as keyboard and it implements hid you don't need any programming21:13
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mgedminrhsanborn: wait 5 minutes and you'll find a .install file at https://downloads.maemo.org/product/vim21:13
rhsanbornThx mgedmin. What kinds of bells and whistles? (I'm using a 1GB mem card atm)21:14
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c0ffeedisq, that is incomplete21:14
c0ffeedisq, and i want to verify whether the official is too21:14
jaekukeesj: well, that is the problem... what phone out there lets you use its keyboard as a HID keyboard? none that i know of.21:15
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mgedminrhsanborn: syntax highlighting, online help, UTF-8 support, file explorer, xterm mouse support21:16
Paavojaeku: you could try #symbian, but that's mostly populated by really bitter Symbian C++ developers :)21:17
rhsanbornI might have to go dl the dev package to port latex and stuff as well21:17
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jaekuPaavo: ah, thanks21:18
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rhsanbornThx so much mgedmin21:24
mgedminjust built it for os2006 too21:25
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mgedminwhy did I assume it took 20 megs?  only about 621:29
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rhsanbornPerfect. I'm building my app list so that i can take notes and write reports21:31
mgedmindownloads.maemo.org is STUPID21:32
mgedminlooks like it picks image scaling factors randomly21:32
mgedminlook at https://downloads.maemo.org/product/vim and https://downloads.maemo.org/product/maemo-mapper21:33
mgedminthree different scale factors for the images21:33
Tak|worknice21:33
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Tak|worksubmit a bug21:34
mgedminmost interestingly, when I uploaded the first vim screenshot, it was scaled down to 240x144, when I uploaded the second, both were scaled to 800x48021:34
* mgedmin goes to the tracker21:35
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mgedminhttps://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=484&group_id=106&atid=45721:39
* mgedmin hates sourceforge and its clones21:39
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JaffaGah, something keeps segfaulting maemo-mapper.21:44
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dolfuni'm surprised a mapper works well with the memory limits21:46
keesjJaffa: I hope you are using the official :p21:50
keesjbut that said I have use mud's maemo-mapper with no problem21:51
RobHuI'd like to build a new kernel that supports SDHC, and put all this on a SDHC card (so as not to fsck over the OS in ROM). Could someone please point me to where I might RTFM? :-)21:52
keesjCanola has bigger UI problems then the default maemo apps.21:53
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Tak|workhttp://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_kernel_guide_bora.html21:53
RobHuTak|work: Thankyou21:53
keesjevery time I press something it's a supprise what will happen. but it does look nice and upnp works better alright21:54
RobHuTak|work: Do you know where the appropriate SDHC foo is? I heard there was a kernel patch, but that also the latest kernel might have that patch in it.21:54
Tak|worksorry, no21:54
Tak|worksomeone's built a sdhc-enabled kernel, though21:55
RobHuah21:55
keesjjaeku: I use kbdd for my non hid keyboard ,21:55
RobHuI would just like sdhc with ext3 (I assume I want ext3 and not ext2)21:55
RobHuDo you happen to have a link Tak|work ?21:55
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Tak|workhttp://intr.overt.org/blog/21:57
RobHuThanks21:58
RobHuHas anyone had any experience using ext2 vs ext3 on the N770 or N800?22:04
Tak|workafaict, the general consensus is ext3 bad for flash22:05
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sonarmtlhi guys what is the default root password?22:09
RobHurootme22:09
sonarmtldoesn't accept it...22:10
sonarmtl3.2006.49-922:10
RobHuI only know that as it's what it is on my N80022:11
Tak|workI just use `sudo gainroot` on the 77022:12
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c0ffeethe default su isn't suid root22:13
c0ffeeyou have to apply the one or the other trick to get root22:13
bipolarRobHu: I would not use EXT3... the journaling won't gain you much.22:15
RobHuIf it crashes it will recover more quickly though?22:16
c0ffeejffs2 is a journaled fs as well22:21
c0ffeeand in contrast to ext3 it won't wear out your flash in no time22:22
bipolarc0ffee: if the noatime option is used, ext won't wear it out fast either...22:22
c0ffeehum22:23
c0ffeeall it needs is a single sector it writes often22:23
c0ffeeand i bet you have that with or without noatime22:23
RobHuFrom what I've read jffs2 is very slow on the N800 on account of it being a compressed file system22:23
c0ffeecompression is optional on jffs222:24
c0ffeeand at least on the 770, it wasn't used22:24
Veggenuh?22:24
RobHuI wonder if modern flash cards do write levelling?22:24
bipolarjffs requires an mtd device..... is the sd card read as an mtd device?22:24
keesjmemory type device?22:25
c0ffeeah, you want to access the sd card22:25
c0ffeethere you don't have direct access to the flash (i.e. mtd device) anyway22:25
c0ffeeand the sd card does do wear leveling22:25
alpRobHu: even better, if both the device and software do write levelling, they can act to cancel out the effects of each other22:25
RobHualp: Yeah, well obviously I don't want that :-)22:26
RobHuSo it would be good to know if my card has write levelling or not22:26
bipolaron the internal flash the only thing you want to run is jffs2. you can't replace it if it wears out :p22:27
bipolarRobHu: you want to move your root file system to the SD card, right?22:27
RobHuThis is a shiny new 8GB card :-)22:27
RobHubipolar: Yes22:27
bipolarRobHu: ok. first, upgrade your kernel so you can read the card.22:27
alpi was going to say that i assume removable storage does it in hardware because it's usually formatted to vfat, but that gives the vendors too much credit22:28
bipolarRobHu: then put the card in a reader on a pc so you can repartition it. (partitioning on the nokia is a major PITA)22:28
RobHuI'm a bit worried about bricking it by upgrading the kernel. So my plan was to first get it running of a different 1GB card, then when that works with the new kernel sort out the 8GB card22:28
bipolarRobHu: my understanding is that flashing the kernel with the USB connection is not very dangerous. the bootloader that does the flashing loads before the kernel, so if it doesn't work you can just reflash.22:29
bipolarRobHu: I reflashed mine just to get the higher speed sd bus.22:29
RobHuoh right ok22:30
RobHubipolar: Which kernel did you use? I'm wondering if I should use the kernel from http://intr.overt.org/blog/?p=4422:30
bipolarRobHu: thats the one I installed.22:31
* bipolar is on the phone22:31
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RobHuHmm it says Suitable USB device not found, waiting ... perhaps I have to put it in some kind of mode first22:39
Tak|workyou are reading the instructions, correct?22:40
RobHuI figured it out :)22:42
RobHuLooks like that worked22:42
RobHubipolar: What result do you get from uname -a?22:45
|tbb|could anyone help me?22:45
RobHu|tbb|: Whats the problem?22:47
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RobHuwah! It doesnt charge from USB and I left the power adapter at work :(22:47
RobHualso now my internal flash card is not mounted :S22:48
|tbb|i would like to softpower of my c1000 and push it on via script22:48
|tbb|is that possible?22:48
RobHuWhat are the paths to the cards?22:48
RobHuaha, found them22:49
RobHuIs /dev/mmcblk1* the second mmc card? (the external one?)22:50
RobHuIt would appear it is22:53
Veggenit is.22:56
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Veggensomewhat illogical, it's mounted at /media/mmc1, while the internal (first) is at /media/mmc222:56
RobHuI believe ext3 has some advantages over ext2. I wonder what option is required to disable the journal...22:57
Tak|workext3 is only ext2 + journal22:57
tko770 only had external mmc and it was in /media/mmc1...22:57
Veggensure. for backward compatibility, it's sort of good.22:57
Veggenbut looking at the N800 in itself, maybe not :) I might even like /media/internal and /media/external22:58
RobHuext3 is more than just ext2 + journal, that used to be the case but it hasn't been true for a long time22:58
RobHuThat's why ext2 undelete utilities dont work for instance22:58
RobHuext3 has features like dir_index that ext2 doesn't have too22:59
BrianRicenone of these are really going to pay off on a flash drive22:59
BrianRice(re: ext3)22:59
bipolarRobHu: Sorry... was afk for a while23:00
RobHubipolar: Given that I can read the 8gb card I assume what I did worked :)23:00
bipolarRobHu: awesome :)23:00
RobHuBrianRice: Yes, but are there other improvements to the ext3 codebase over the ext2 code? If ext2 really is just ext3 without a journal then I have nothing to lose by creating ext3 without a journal.23:01
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bipolarRobHu: afaik, ext2 and ext3 share code.23:01
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bipolarRobHu: maybe I'm wrong :\23:02
RobHuI think they do too23:02
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RobHuProbably there is almost no difference between using ext2 and ext3 sans journal23:02
RobHuHmm23:02
RobHuI'm not sure this new kernel supports ext3 :'(23:02
bipolarI used ext2. I never tried 323:03
* RobHu stops trying to do fancy things23:04
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RobHubipolar: does uname - a give you Linux Nokia-N800-51 2.6.18-omap1 #3 Tue Feb 6 22:30:15 PST 2007 armv6l unknown23:12
bipolarRobHu: Linux Nokia-N800-51 2.6.18-omap1 #3 Tue Feb 6 22:30:15 PST 2007 armv6l unknown23:12
bipolaryep23:12
bipolarexact same kernel23:12
RobHuhmm23:13
jaekuanyone here know about the steps i would need to take to attempt to get an internship at nokia in the summer for someone that lives abroad?23:13
glas5nokias recry system most probably23:13
glas5just google nokia + internship23:14
glas5if you really want to.. :)23:14
jaekuok23:15
RobHuboom23:15
RobHuReboot23:15
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jaekuhmm, not just nokia but the maemo team?23:15
RobHuwhile running mkfs.ext2 on the 8gb card23:15
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glas5well if they have such positions you would apply to them probably through nokias career/recry thing23:16
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jaekuah, alright23:17
RobHuThe reboot is not encouraging :S23:17
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RobHuHmm.. after mkfs.ext2 /dev/mmcblk1p1 /media/mmc  running  mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /media/mmc1  results in  mount: Mounting /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 failed: Invalid argument23:19
RobHuIt's like the kernel doesnt know what ext2 is23:19
robsteralp: howdy23:20
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RobHuCould someone who has the stock kernel please post uname -a ?23:20
alprobster: yo23:20
robsteralp: you are rarely on jabber23:21
alpi am on right now23:21
alpalp [at] ndesk [dot] org23:21
robsteryes, i have you on my OH, roster23:21
alphmm, i see other OH people online23:22
robsteralp: yes, but i assume they have their OH computer plugged in and turned on?23:23
MDKferulo: man, the music is creepy23:23
alprobster: it does help :-)23:23
feruloMDK: it is not!23:24
MDKferulo: it's scary dude ;)23:24
MDKdavid lynch23:24
MDKtoo much david lynch ferulo23:25
feruloMDK: it's julio medem film23:26
ferulohttp://imdb.com/title/tt0133363/23:26
MDKbtw, are you the copyright owner? ;)23:27
MDKI'll send riaa after you23:27
RobHuNo one got a stock kernel to hand?23:27
RobHubipolar: So what did you do to mount your ext2 partition?23:28
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feruloMDK: http://imdb.com/title/tt0133363/soundtrack23:29
feruloMDK: search fi.wikipedia.org for The Harmony Sisters23:30
feruloit's a pre-50s recording23:30
feruloso no copyright over the recording :)23:30
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MDKhttp://creativefriday.com/Parallels_Coherence.mp423:31
MDKthis is cool23:31
MDKrunning win32 inside mac osx23:31
MDKwin32 apps that is23:32
MDKusing a "hidden" virtual machine23:32
pahartikRobHu: "Linux kovu 2.6.16.27-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Wed Nov 29 16:29:50 EET 2006 armv5tejl unknown"23:33
pahartikRobHu: "insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext2.ko"23:34
bipolarRobHu: I followed the directions at....23:34
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bipolarRobHu: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo_EASILY_Boot_From_MMC_card23:35
RobHupahartik: Thanks - the insmod wont work for me because I have a different kernel23:36
bipolarRobHu: I also did it over a ssh login... using the xterm is painful without a keyboard. :p23:36
pahartikRobHu: And apparently different hardware...23:36
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RobHubipolar: Yes, I'm using ssh :-) Could you possibly tell me what you get when you do this: ls -l /mnt/initfs/lib/modules ?23:37
bipolarRobHu: yes... I ran into that too. don't use the 'current' link. :)23:38
bipolarRobHu: just replace 'current' with '2.6.18-omap1' in the commands. I don't know why it's broken23:39
RobHubipolar: current on my n800 is a symlink to the only directory on there23:39
RobHuhmm23:39
bipolaryes. something is wrong with it. maybe its a problem with the shell. I dunno. I just left it as it was and used the directory.23:39
RobHubipolar: So you're using ext2 on it now? Could you lsmod and check it lists ext2?23:40
RobHuI dont think the kernel I have has ext2 support, and the modules dont load with this kernel.23:40
bipolarRobHu: yes. the ext2 module is loaded.23:41
RobHuHow odd!23:41
RobHubipolar: Could you give me your df lines for /dev/mmcbl* please?23:41
RobHuor23:41
RobHubetter yet, mount23:41
bipolar /dev/mmcblk0p2 on / type ext2 (rw,noatime)23:42
bipolar /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,sync,noatime,nodiratime)23:42
RobHugrr :-)23:43
RobHuwhat about: ls -l /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18-omap1/ext2.ko ?23:43
bipolarrwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        60811 Dec 19 11:56 /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.18-omap1/ext2.ko23:43
RobHuomg23:43
RobHuWhat am I doing wrong?23:43
RobHuPerhaps I need to load something before ext223:43
bipolarwhat doesn insmod tell you?23:44
RobHuarg23:44
RobHuI needed mbcache23:44
RobHubipolar: Thanks for all that )23:44
RobHu:-)23:44
bipolarRobHu: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo_EASILY_Partition_your_MMC_card << last line :)23:45
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RobHulol23:46
bipolarhas anyone gotten the media apps on the 800 to read files from a mythtv box?23:46
RobHuRTFM!23:46
bipolarI have mythtv,  the 800 sees the server, but doesn't show anything shared on it.23:46
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RobHuInteresting. My new shiny 8GB sdhc card is about 15% slower than the old 1GB SD card23:48
bipolarthats not good :\23:50
bipolarRobHu: how are you measuring the speed?23:50
RobHubipolar: time dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/dev/null bs=8192 count=10240 for read speed23:50
RobHuheh, just copied things over from one card to the other. They have the same stuff on, now one says used 44%, and the other used 5% >.<23:54
bipolarRobHu: :)23:54
RobHuVery swish23:55
RobHuI may well use the 1GB one for the OS and so on, and use the 8GB one for mp3s and such :-)23:55
bipolarI gotta get one of those huge cards... just for the heck of it. 2GB isn't big enough :)23:55
bipolarRobHu: why not get 2 8GB ones? the external slot will read them too :)23:56
bipolarI only have 1.3GB left! omg!23:56
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RobHuhehe :-)23:56
RobHuI just bought 8GB one (which is in the external slot) to see if it would work23:57
bipolarah23:57
RobHuI thought I'd feel pretty silly buying two, and then finding out it didn't work for some reason23:57
bipolargotcha23:57
RobHuI'm not sure I can envisage a use for > 9GB atm anyway :-)23:57
RobHua /reasonable/ use ;-)23:57
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RobHuMight as well wait until the 16GB ones come out23:57
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