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| maddler | dum dee daaa... | 00:47 |
|---|---|---|
| maddler | boring night... | 00:47 |
| Knirch | aye | 00:50 |
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| maddler | mgedmin: noway... the bug is still here... :( | 00:55 |
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| maddler | Knirch: ayo! | 00:55 |
| mgedmin | how many icons do you have? | 00:55 |
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| maddler | mgedmin: 9 | 01:00 |
| maddler | if I'm correct... | 01:00 |
| maddler | correct=right :) | 01:00 |
| maddler | rebooting device | 01:00 |
| mgedmin | enabling bluetooth... | 01:01 |
| mgedmin | now I also have 9 | 01:01 |
| mgedmin | no errors | 01:01 |
| maddler | eh... I believe you... the point is: what the hell makes *clock annoying? | 01:02 |
| maddler | the only thing I did is reinstalling canola... | 01:02 |
| maddler | so... is there something *clock and canola share? | 01:03 |
| Magi | omfg...BT keyboard and phone connection can not work at the same time? | 01:03 |
| maddler | Magi: hmmm... THIS is annoying... | 01:03 |
| maddler | considering I was only buy a BT kbd to be used when abroad... | 01:04 |
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| Sulis | Magi: seriously? | 01:04 |
| Magi | It seems so | 01:05 |
| Sulis | argh, nooo | 01:05 |
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| Magi | I'll have to recheck but... | 01:07 |
| mgedmin | I have the clock, I have canola, but I don't have the bug | 01:07 |
| maddler | mgedmin: eh... so... who knows?! | 01:07 |
| maddler | now I have enabled all the icons for statusbar (8) and everything is fine... | 01:08 |
| mgedmin | idea | 01:08 |
| maddler | now... let me enable statusbarclock and reboot... | 01:08 |
| Magi | Hmm, maybe I was wrong, now I got them both connected... but occasionally they just don't connect | 01:09 |
| mgedmin | nope, a new icon appearing in the middle of the statusbar does not trigger the bug | 01:10 |
| maddler | mgedmin: no... it only shows at boot time... | 01:12 |
| Sulis | Magi: that's not too bad, as long as they *can* be connected and used at the same time | 01:12 |
| maddler | if you add/remove/change statusbar icons everything is fine... | 01:12 |
| Magi | Well, my 6310i freezes completely (have to remove battery) about every second time I make BT connection to it, but... sometimes it works. | 01:12 |
| * mgedmin reboots | 01:13 | |
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| Sulis | that does't sound fun at all | 01:13 |
| mgedmin | 8 icons, no problems | 01:13 |
| * maddler enables statusbarclock and reboots as well... | 01:13 | |
| Magi | It has to be n800 settings, because BT+gprs has worked just fine with laptop for years | 01:14 |
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| maddler | I have 9 icons and no problems now... | 01:14 |
| maddler | let me reboot... | 01:14 |
| maddler | btw, I had 9 icons (8 + statusbarclock) before and the bug showed... | 01:15 |
| maddler | suspance... | 01:16 |
| maddler | no bug this time... | 01:16 |
| maddler | let me reboot again... | 01:16 |
| maddler | so... what the hell triggers the bug? | 01:16 |
| maddler | because, I mean, we've got a bug... | 01:16 |
| maddler | suspance... | 01:17 |
| maddler | workegd again... | 01:18 |
| * mgedmin sleeps | 01:18 | |
| mgedmin | *yawn* bye! | 01:18 |
| maddler | so... mumble... the only thing I changed this time is adding hciconfig hci0 up to rcS | 01:18 |
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| maddler | mgedmin: see you... | 01:18 |
| Sulis | maddler: what is this bug? | 01:19 |
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| maddler | Sulis: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/simon/files/n770/n800-statusbar-bug.png | 01:19 |
| maddler | see the triangle overlapping the first icon... | 01:19 |
| Sulis | lol, that's good | 01:20 |
| Sulis | does it still work as an icon when it's like that? | 01:20 |
| maddler | eh... the point is that I cannot find what actually causes the bug... | 01:20 |
| maddler | no... | 01:20 |
| Sulis | do the other icons work? | 01:21 |
| maddler | you can't show other icons nor use the overlapped icon... | 01:21 |
| Sulis | ah | 01:21 |
| maddler | other shown icons work perfectly... | 01:21 |
| maddler | eh | 01:21 |
| maddler | btw... everything is ok now... | 01:22 |
| maddler | that's soooo strange... | 01:23 |
| Sulis | you can't reproduce the bug, difficult... | 01:24 |
| maddler | right... | 01:27 |
| maddler | sometimes it's here... sometimes it's not... | 01:27 |
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| maddler | ok... time to hit the bed here... | 01:36 |
| maddler | see you next time... | 01:36 |
| Sulis | see you | 01:40 |
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| gabor | hi all | 02:03 |
| gabor | Could someone help me install scratchbox please... | 02:03 |
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| jonnylamb | gabor: what's up? | 02:03 |
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| gabor | I don't have enough space on / | 02:04 |
| gabor | but have plenty on /mnt/10GBHDD | 02:04 |
| gabor | I think I need a symlink? | 02:04 |
| konfoo | you cant symlink? | 02:04 |
| konfoo | exactly | 02:04 |
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| konfoo | or just mount that disk directly to the scratchbox | 02:05 |
| gabor | I have made one with ln -s /mnt/10GBHDD /scratchbox | 02:05 |
| gabor | but I get error messages when scratchbox is installed | 02:05 |
| gabor | more precisely: ln -s /mnt/10GBHDD/scratchbox /scratchbox | 02:06 |
| konfoo | i dont see why you are symlinking it if you are mounting the entire drive | 02:06 |
| gabor | I want to install scratchbox to this other drive | 02:06 |
| konfoo | rm /scratchbox make a scratchbox pysical dir and edit your fstab mountpoint for the 10gbhdd to be /scratchbox | 02:07 |
| gabor | hmmm that sounds interesting | 02:07 |
| gabor | but I want to use that HDD for other things too | 02:07 |
| gabor | not only scratchbox | 02:08 |
| gabor | that's why I wanted to symlink to only a folder in it | 02:08 |
| konfoo | eh you just said youre symlinking the entire drive | 02:08 |
| gabor | more precisely: ln -s /mnt/10GBHDD/scratchbox /scratchbox | 02:08 |
| konfoo | ic | 02:08 |
| * sp3000 just installed to another drive with -s, that seems to work so far, haven't played much with it yet tho | 02:09 | |
| sp3000 | mind you it didn't like the nosuid,nodev that it happened to have initially :) | 02:09 |
| * sp3000 assumes one of those was the issue | 02:10 | |
| gabor | sp3000, so how did you change settings to make it work OK? | 02:11 |
| sp3000 | sudo mount -oremount ... went to defaults in this case | 02:14 |
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| Schmots | Hello | 03:45 |
| Schmots | anyone else here booting a n800 from mmc/sd? | 03:47 |
| Schmots | ... wait.. Crahan??? | 03:47 |
| Schmots | That you man? | 03:47 |
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| Guardian | morning | 10:52 |
| mrspockie | good morning | 10:56 |
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| klattimer | hey all, i have a problem with my n800, it just won't boot anymore. When I turn it on it comes up with the nokia logo, then after a few minutes the screen goes black briefly then it goes back to the nokia logo. This started happening after the device locked up on me. any ideas? | 11:18 |
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| inz | klattimer, try flasher --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset | 11:21 |
| Jaffa | keesj: ping (libwxlua is having its patch of libwxlua-dev.install failing) | 11:21 |
| klattimer | cheers inz | 11:21 |
| klattimer | will do | 11:21 |
| koen | Jaffa: how's mud coming along? | 11:22 |
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| inz | klattimer, it might not help too much though, it the bootup process is broken too early (for example broken busybox) | 11:23 |
| Jaffa | koen: reasonably well. Not managed to successfully upload anything to extras yet, and there are some project workflow issues, but nothing too serious. | 11:23 |
| klattimer | Error claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted | 11:23 |
| klattimer | hmm | 11:23 |
| Jaffa | koen: some nice packages like lua, ruby, libwxlua etc in there. | 11:24 |
| keesj | Jaffa: it used to work , I will look into it | 11:24 |
| koen | Jaffa: bummer that uploading still doesn't work | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | keesj: ta | 11:24 |
| klattimer | my n800 is a brick isn't it inz | 11:25 |
| Jaffa | koen: I'm probably doing something stupid, but I've not had time to retry | 11:25 |
| keesj | I just blogged about it :p | 11:25 |
| Jaffa | klattimer: no, that's fine - try doing it as root on your PC | 11:25 |
| klattimer | oh | 11:25 |
| klattimer | lol | 11:25 |
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| klattimer | now its hanging with a little maemo icon with a wrench on it | 11:27 |
| keesj | Jaffa: I think I might be better of create our own repository | 11:29 |
| keesj | This would also allow us to give some stats :p | 11:30 |
| klattimer | inz still not booting | 11:30 |
| keesj | Jaffa: this one also sounds great #405: Add packages for PocketSphinx and SphinxBase packages from cmusphinx.org for embedded speech recognition. (contributed by Jeff Buchbinder) | 11:30 |
| Jaffa | keesj: For testing, yes - however I'm fed up with the prevalence of repositories on maemo. It's easy for the developer, but hard for the user. Lazy developers are good for code efficiency, but bad for usability. | 11:31 |
| Jaffa | keesj: yeah, my question on that is "does it actually work?" ;-) | 11:31 |
| keesj | I will give is a try :p | 11:32 |
| keesj | it that a requirement? | 11:32 |
| Jaffa | Well, as long as it does something :) | 11:32 |
| keesj | it compiles , ship it | 11:32 |
| keesj | I am not resposible for the software, only the packaging + patches | 11:33 |
| klattimer | inz still getting lockups and resets, this time with some green writing on the screen (kernel and hardware info) and a maemo icon with a wrench on it | 11:33 |
| klattimer | oh | 11:33 |
| Jaffa | keesj: yes, but I don't want to upload crap to extras - since, again, that pisses off users. | 11:33 |
| klattimer | OH | 11:34 |
| klattimer | its booting | 11:34 |
| klattimer | ! | 11:34 |
| keesj | But if it works and we understand what it is, it is probabely deserves some attention :p | 11:34 |
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| Jaffa | keesj: agreed | 11:34 |
| keesj | Jaffa: on what? | 11:35 |
| Jaffa | the last thing you said about deserving attention | 11:35 |
| keesj | Jaffa: what is the problem in wxlua dev? the cpp source or are there other problems? | 11:39 |
| keesj | the build works4me | 11:39 |
| klattimer | will the next maemo have a mobile phone in it? | 11:39 |
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| c0ffee | moin | 11:42 |
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| keesj | klattimer: I hope/think so | 11:42 |
| keesj | perhaps only for data traffic? | 11:43 |
| klattimer | can i trade this one in you recon? i got it as part of the 500 | 11:43 |
| keesj | I think so because the h9 also has such features and it looks like most linux based pda's will have such a feature. unless there are other policital issues , I can't imagine nokia not following the trend | 11:45 |
| keesj | maddler: I have many problems with the skins on maemopeople , "the work" skin does not work either | 11:46 |
| klattimer | anyone got any debs for the plankton theme? | 11:47 |
| klattimer | oh | 11:47 |
| klattimer | found it | 11:47 |
| klattimer | wh00p | 11:47 |
| klattimer | been dying to try this theme out | 11:47 |
| Jaffa | keesj: using 2.1, 2.2 or 3.0? | 11:53 |
| klattimer | not sure whether or not I'm glad I live inside of a faraday cage, I can't play with the FM tuner on my n800, but tempest technology doesn't work to snoop on me | 11:55 |
| klattimer | is it worth the trade off? | 11:56 |
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| keesj | Jaffa: 3.0 | 12:03 |
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| klattimer | this thing just keeps turning into a brick! | 12:04 |
| klattimer | every reboot is like playing roulette | 12:05 |
| keesj | I just tried with a 2.x sb and the patching fails :( I will post the diff between the two original generated files, | 12:08 |
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| keesj | Jaffa: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=467&group_id=63&atid=293 | 12:15 |
| keesj | Jaffa: can you also look at the other bugs and perhaps add me as admin or similar | 12:15 |
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| keesj | klattimer: " is it worth the trade off" what are you reffering to? | 12:28 |
| * keesj has to go | 12:29 | |
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| maddler | keesj: "work" skin is meant to be used as a base for new skins | 12:40 |
| maddler | keesj: other skins may have some minor issues, drop me a line if you found something that needs to be fixed | 12:41 |
| maddler | keesj: I'm working on a couple new maemo related skins also | 12:41 |
| klattimer | keej nm | 12:46 |
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| tigert | skins? | 12:54 |
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| tigert | keesj: why would you want to get ANOTHER sim card to use data connection on your N800? | 12:55 |
| tigert | or N-whatever if there was one with a gsm module? | 12:56 |
| tigert | I am a lot more happy with a bluetooth phone that is reasonably sized for voice calls | 12:56 |
| tigert | and using that for a connectivity over bluetooth | 12:56 |
| tigert | while its in the pocket | 12:56 |
| tigert | another gsm unit means another data plan and another contract etc | 12:56 |
| * wumpus agrees with tigert | 12:57 | |
| wumpus | also less battery life probably | 12:57 |
| tigert | and I wouldnt want that (even though my current stuff is paid by the employer anyway) | 12:57 |
| tigert | but its kinda silly, as you have the phone anyway | 12:57 |
| tigert | I wouldnt want to *talk* using the N800 while walking | 12:57 |
| tigert | sometimes you dont want to use headphone set | 12:58 |
| tigert | but just walk without the gear and then you get a call, you just take the reasonably-sized cellphone out and talk | 12:58 |
| tigert | it would be a sucky phone replacement | 12:58 |
| tigert | it works fine for voip calls and videochat when you are in a suitable place of course | 12:59 |
| tigert | I think the bluetooth + wlan is just right | 12:59 |
| tigert | but maybe I don't see it how those people who say "nokia = must be a phone" see it | 13:00 |
| tigert | see it the same way I mean | 13:00 |
| tigert | functionally it does not even matter | 13:00 |
| tigert | I select *go to internet* using cellular provider. | 13:00 |
| tigert | and it goes to internet using cellular provider | 13:00 |
| tigert | sure, it does it via my phone over bluetooth, but what's the difference to me? | 13:01 |
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| tigert | none. | 13:01 |
| klattimer | tigert, your theme rocks! | 13:01 |
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| tigert | heh thanks :) | 13:08 |
| maddler | tigert: yes, I think that the point is "if it comes from Nokia it *has* to have a phone!" | 13:09 |
| tigert | maddler: people are so stuck in their mindset | 13:09 |
| maddler | tigert: indeed... | 13:09 |
| klattimer | no thank you | 13:09 |
| tigert | the same is this "it must have PIM to be successful handheld" | 13:09 |
| klattimer | it doesn't look like horse shit any more | 13:09 |
| tigert | which, arguably, could be true also | 13:09 |
| tigert | but | 13:09 |
| klattimer | would love some tango icons though | 13:09 |
| tigert | I dont think the answer is "I have my stuff with me in my pocket" | 13:09 |
| tigert | but rather "I have a device that lets me get my stuff on the net wherever I am" | 13:10 |
| maddler | ever, and I mean *EVERY* time I talk about 770/N800, people insist that "it has to be a phone" | 13:10 |
| tigert | maddler: yeah | 13:10 |
| tigert | brain turmors or something I guess | 13:10 |
| tigert | maddler: but when you think of it - it HAS cellular connectivity | 13:10 |
| tigert | for me as a user it does 3G connection just fine | 13:10 |
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| maddler | tigert: hehehe... yep... I always preferred having a PDA and a "real" Phone | 13:10 |
| zeenix | thats not as disturbing as people telling me about problems with their nokia phones :) | 13:10 |
| tigert | I dont even care it goes over bluetooth to the phone first | 13:11 |
| tigert | its the same thing nevertheless | 13:11 |
| tigert | I can browse the web. mission accomplished. | 13:11 |
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| maddler | tigert: right | 13:11 |
| tigert | zeenix: heh | 13:11 |
| maddler | and also I think about disaster recovery... :) | 13:11 |
| maddler | having a single device = single point of failure ;) | 13:11 |
| tigert | I am totally thinking of this device as a mobile terminal | 13:12 |
| tigert | I dont care if it has storage or not | 13:12 |
| tigert | its more useful as a blog reader (data is online), rss reader (data is online), gmail (data is online) etc | 13:12 |
| tigert | I'd love to have a good podcast tool | 13:12 |
| maddler | tigert: yep, but I also use it to have my "secure" environment at hand | 13:12 |
| tigert | and a tool to post blogs and podcasts on the go | 13:12 |
| tigert | yea | 13:12 |
| tigert | some local storage is good | 13:13 |
| tigert | but an ipod is an ipod | 13:13 |
| tigert | this is about connectivity | 13:13 |
| maddler | ibleah! | 13:13 |
| tigert | I'd love to have a working google calendar and google documents | 13:13 |
| tigert | that is more like what I mean | 13:13 |
| tigert | and | 13:13 |
| tigert | of course | 13:13 |
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| tigert | native apps would be good | 13:13 |
| tigert | but they should work with the online datastores | 13:14 |
| maddler | yep | 13:14 |
| tigert | ie, Notes should give me my google docs | 13:14 |
| maddler | the only thing I really miss from the Palm era is a good PIM | 13:14 |
| maddler | but that's not a big problem, I'm more than happy with E61 functionalities | 13:14 |
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| tigert | yeah, a good calendar would rock | 13:14 |
| tigert | but it should seamlessly just use the google calendar data | 13:15 |
| maddler | tigert: yep, there was Agendus on Palm | 13:15 |
| maddler | a great piece of software... | 13:15 |
| tigert | goosync.com and phones is nice | 13:15 |
| maddler | niiiice... | 13:15 |
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| maddler | didn't know :D | 13:15 |
| maddler | both my E61 and N80 supported... | 13:16 |
| maddler | nice... nice... | 13:16 |
| maddler | gotta give it a try... | 13:17 |
| maddler | btw, Dates on N800 works pretty nice | 13:17 |
| maddler | I'd love to be able to add my contacts to an appointment... | 13:17 |
| tigert | yea, it works nicely | 13:18 |
| tigert | does only 1 calendar for free though | 13:18 |
| tigert | and of course your calendar goes then to Yet Another Company :) | 13:18 |
| tigert | but I just dont keep any sensitive stuff there anyway | 13:18 |
| maddler | tigert: same | 13:18 |
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| maddler | sensitive stuff are on a crypto-fs on an usb stick I always bring with me... :) | 13:19 |
| * maddler is a little security-paranoic | 13:20 | |
| maddler | :) | 13:20 |
| maddler | ok... time to go taste some good italian food! :D | 13:21 |
| maddler | see you all later... | 13:21 |
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| tigert | :) | 13:23 |
| Jaffa | tigert: as I said on http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2007/02/14/the_internet_is_everywhere - purely online stuff is useless if you can't guarantee reliable, cheap and quick connectivity. And there are places where you can't get that. | 13:24 |
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| mgedmin | hey, keesj, I cannot post a comment on your blog | 14:21 |
| mgedmin | "Notice: Undefined index: answer_turing_test in /var/www/maemopeople.org/b2evolution/blogs/plugins/turingtest_plugin/_turingtest.plugin.php on line 116" | 14:22 |
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| jtra | mgedmin: if you can hadle this, you are surely human ;-) | 14:24 |
| mgedmin | I think the test tests for humans who also have write access to the PHP source code :) | 14:24 |
| jtra | them too :) | 14:25 |
| keesj | maddler: !!! | 14:29 |
| keesj | mgedmin: I can try a different theme perhaps? | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | theme? there's a theme? | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | when I clicked on one of the themes, a new question box appeared | 14:31 |
| keesj | O no!! An unexpected error has occured! | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | initially I had plain unthemed HTML | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | fwiw "Notice: Undefined variable: sponsored_links in /var/www/maemopeople.org/b2evolution/blogs/skins/SmoothCurrency/_main.php on line 288" | 14:32 |
| wumpus | too bad, you failed the turing test | 14:33 |
| wumpus | you're a machine | 14:33 |
| keesj | I am going to try ob maddler's blog :p | 14:34 |
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| keesj | mgedmin: I think I will work now , i changed to the theme | 14:37 |
| pbrook | The standard n800 apps use a widget for entering numbers that consists of a number enry box with + and - buttons next to it. Is this a widget I can use in my appication? | 14:37 |
| mgedmin | hey, I posted my comment 7 minutes ago | 14:37 |
| pbrook | I tried GtkSpinButton, but that gives something different. | 14:37 |
| wumpus | it's probably one of the hildon widgets | 14:41 |
| wumpus | those are specifically optimized for the devices | 14:41 |
| pbrook | Aha, HildonNumberEditor. Thanks. | 14:44 |
| keesj | mgedmin: I answerd :p | 14:44 |
| mgedmin | yeah, the maemo-mapper .install is the one that is autogenerated for the extras repository | 14:46 |
| mgedmin | there's http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/bora/install/maemo-mapper.install | 14:46 |
| mgedmin | and there's http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/mistral/install/maemo-mapper.install | 14:46 |
| mgedmin | and each works for one os only | 14:46 |
| mgedmin | is the source to the engine that powers downloads.maemo.org open? | 14:49 |
| mgedmin | how hard would it be to add four new fields (repo name, url for os2006, url for os2007, package name) and a page that generates a .install file on the fly? | 14:50 |
| mgedmin | I don't know any php | 14:50 |
| keesj | but on download(s).maemo.org there is only one link for verion 1.4 and it 2007 http://box.mmapps.net/~keesj/tt.png searching for maemo-mapper for it2006 does not even return a result | 14:51 |
| mgedmin | yes, that's bad | 14:53 |
| mgedmin | but fixable | 14:53 |
| keesj | perhaps I would be happy with just upload .deb button | 14:54 |
| jonnylamb | mgedmin: downloads.maemo.org uses MidGard- http://www.midgard-project.org/ - i expect the admins of d.m.o would be able to add any extra field.. | 14:55 |
| mgedmin | I would be happy if log in didn't take me away from the page I was intending to modify | 14:55 |
| keesj | upload.deb and select the versions known to work | 14:55 |
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| mgedmin | there's an outstanding feature request for downloads.maemo.org to let users create .install files via a web form | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | the admins are busy on other features, I think | 14:56 |
| mgedmin | hm, maemo-mapper 1.4 wasn't uploaded for mistral | 14:59 |
| keesj | and what does maemo.org expect to happen when a new relase is created? | 14:59 |
| keesj | mgedmin: and your understanding is that uploading to mistral is enough? mistral == it2006? | 15:02 |
| mgedmin | mistral was the code name for the SDK for the first release of IT2006 | 15:03 |
| mgedmin | in theory, apps compiled for mistral work on all other IT2006 releases | 15:03 |
| tigert | we suck with naming of releases | 15:03 |
| mgedmin | not really, but I can never remember when to duplicate letters in sccirrocco | 15:04 |
| tigert | :) | 15:04 |
| mgedmin | and I would say the release names blow rather than suck... hehehe | 15:04 |
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| tigert | yah | 15:05 |
| tigert | too many overlapping schemes are crazy | 15:05 |
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| keesj | is there a google main command line client? | 15:43 |
| Robot101 | what do you mean google main? | 15:43 |
| keesj | 15:44 | |
| keesj | hmm perhaps pop will work | 15:44 |
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| maddler | re | 17:05 |
| maddler | keesj: :) | 17:06 |
| keesj | haha | 17:06 |
| maddler | yep... I'm nice :) | 17:07 |
| maddler | beside you are not my ideal man! :D | 17:07 |
| maddler | well, I guess the problem is that you are a *man*! | 17:07 |
| maddler | :D | 17:08 |
| * maddler eats his hazelnut cake :) | 17:12 | |
| maddler | let me check what's wrong on keesj's blog... | 17:16 |
| maddler | hmmm... looks like turing test is working... | 17:19 |
| *** geneven has quit IRC | 17:21 | |
| keesj | maddler: I changed my theme I think that it solved the problem | 17:22 |
| mgedmin | maddler: what was wrong was that when I first went there today, I got a completely unstyled html page | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | with a bunch of theme name links at the top | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | and no turing test in the comments form | 17:23 |
| Guardian | WTF i want to remove "Nokia Connectivity Cable Driver" from my windows laptop, and guess what ? the uninstaller requires the installer binary !! first time i see that =)) | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | after I chose a theme from the links above, the turing test question appeared | 17:23 |
| mgedmin | but now I see a php warning about an undefined variable in the footer | 17:24 |
| maddler | yep, I'd need a) to fix actual themes b) to create some ad-hoc themes | 17:24 |
| mgedmin | Guardian: MS Office used that trick too | 17:24 |
| Guardian | trick ? | 17:24 |
| mgedmin | "you want to UNinstall? No way. Insert the installation CD first" | 17:24 |
| Guardian | it's just dumb | 17:25 |
| maddler | another good reason to stop using M$! :D | 17:25 |
| mgedmin | well, I tend to think using Windows is dumb too | 17:25 |
| mgedmin | hello, spyware! viruses! drm! | 17:25 |
| maddler | mgedmin: hahaha | 17:25 |
| Guardian | maddler: is it a os issue ? or do i have to blame the trainee that built the installation package ? =) | 17:25 |
| timeless | that's not fair | 17:25 |
| maddler | Guardian: both I guess | 17:26 |
| timeless | windows is portable, it has lots of software, including viruses | 17:26 |
| timeless | try running an os2005 virus on os2006 | 17:26 |
| maddler | timeless: windows? portable?! errr... | 17:26 |
| timeless | it doesn't work | 17:26 |
| maddler | timeless: LOL! | 17:26 |
| timeless | a dos virus will work nicely on at least w98 | 17:26 |
| timeless | probably wme | 17:26 |
| maddler | using windows you can count on a base of 10.000+ viruses! | 17:26 |
| Guardian | i don't blame windows, it does its job | 17:27 |
| timeless | a w31 virus might work on wXP | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | did anyone try to port dosbox for n800? | 17:27 |
| maddler | that's Compatible(TM)! | 17:27 |
| mgedmin | we want dos viruses on our portable internet tablets! | 17:27 |
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| Guardian | macs are supposed to be smart, but it somehow behaves strangely to me: like, it took me a while to actually understand that I had to drag the "big pastel firefox icon ball" in order to actually install the software on my mac ... :) | 17:27 |
| maddler | yeah! we want tons of viruses! | 17:28 |
| Guardian | or, put a shell script on the desktop, chmod +x, double click ==> TADA text edit ! | 17:28 |
| timeless | guardian: it's a one time learning experience | 17:28 |
| Guardian | or, from command line, "$> mypetmp3player nicetune.mp3" ==> TADA here comes iTunes ! | 17:29 |
| maddler | I'm using Linux since 8 years now and I'm HAPPY! | 17:29 |
| timeless | once you learn how to install software on a mac, you never forget | 17:29 |
| Guardian | timeless: applies to all os | 17:29 |
| timeless | as for nicetune.mp3, "open nicetune.mp3" would work | 17:29 |
| mgedmin | uh, oh, I sense an approaching flamewar... | 17:29 |
| timeless | guardian: not true | 17:29 |
| timeless | it might be apt-get install | 17:29 |
| timeless | or yum install | 17:29 |
| maddler | Guardian: beside on Windows you sometimes also have to find how to uninstall as well! :DDD | 17:29 |
| timeless | or ./configure ; make ; make install | 17:29 |
| timeless | or ... | 17:29 |
| Guardian | so, in the end, it's just getting used to what the os expects you to do, i don't think there is one smarter than the others | 17:29 |
| maddler | Winblows is NOT smart. Period! | 17:30 |
| maddler | :D | 17:30 |
| timeless | btw, how do you install photoshop on linux? | 17:30 |
| Guardian | wine setup.exe | 17:30 |
| timeless | installing it on windows or osx is easy | 17:30 |
| timeless | guardian: linux-arm | 17:30 |
| timeless | guardian: linux-armel | 17:30 |
| Guardian | maddler: don't get me wrong, i like linux too :) | 17:31 |
| timeless | maddler: insulting an os isn't a good idea | 17:31 |
| timeless | it's even insulting to see anyone insult an os | 17:31 |
| mgedmin | but it can be FUN :) | 17:31 |
| timeless | it shows how little they know | 17:31 |
| Guardian | yeah arm, armel ... which toolchain to use ? how much do i have to pray before it works ? :) | 17:31 |
| timeless | guardian: 2 years minimum | 17:32 |
| timeless | 20 goats for sacrifice | 17:32 |
| mgedmin | don't forget the black candles | 17:32 |
| timeless | oh, and don't get me started on installing stuff on the n800 | 17:32 |
| timeless | it seems someone wanted to install some 770 software | 17:33 |
| maddler | timeless: in fact windows is not an O.S. | 17:33 |
| timeless | so they clicked a link, it | 17:33 |
| timeless | maddler: nt4 is an os | 17:33 |
| timeless | nt5 is an os | 17:33 |
| timeless | nt6 is an os | 17:33 |
| timeless | 9x isn't, but when was the last time you used it? | 17:33 |
| maddler | they only are GUIs :D | 17:33 |
| timeless | um, no | 17:33 |
| keesj | de gentoo install blijft mijn eena mooiste linux ervaring tot nu toe(de mooiste was in het dos tijdperk dat je met alt-f2 een tweede console kon opnenen) | 17:33 |
| timeless | ChildEBP RetAddr | 17:33 |
| timeless | 0012e76c 7c90e273 ntdll!KiFastSystemCallRet | 17:33 |
| timeless | 0012e770 7c8634bf ntdll!NtRaiseHardError+0xc | 17:33 |
| timeless | 0012ee20 10212e61 kernel32!UnhandledExceptionFilter+0x653 | 17:33 |
| timeless | kernel32 is most certainly not a gui | 17:34 |
| timeless | (no is ntdll for that matter) | 17:34 |
| keesj | sorry | 17:34 |
| timeless | anyway, they clicked this thing | 17:34 |
| timeless | got application installer | 17:34 |
| maddler | keesj: :) | 17:34 |
| timeless | which then at some point explained they were missing a package | 17:34 |
| timeless | they cleverly said, "hey, isn't that in the repositories I have?" | 17:35 |
| timeless | the answer was "yes" | 17:35 |
| timeless | but no, the installer, and apt/dpkg won't bother to get the package from the repository | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | timeless: you are wrong here | 17:35 |
| timeless | mgedmin: given that i talked w/ marius | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | the installer/apt will get the package from a repo you have | 17:35 |
| timeless | and he pointed me to the code | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | oh? | 17:35 |
| timeless | and that i've read the code before | 17:35 |
| timeless | and know exactly what i'm talking about | 17:35 |
| mgedmin | show me the code please | 17:36 |
| timeless | here's the key point | 17:36 |
| timeless | if you ask the installer to install a deb | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | because it contradicts my direct experience installing software on the nokias | 17:36 |
| timeless | it won't check the repositores | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | ah, if you ask to install a deb, then yes, certainly | 17:36 |
| timeless | if you ask the installer to install a file from the repo, then yes | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | I thought you were talking about .install files | 17:36 |
| timeless | i didn't say that | 17:36 |
| timeless | stop making bad assumptions :) | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | I misunderstood | 17:36 |
| timeless | anyway, what matters is what the user experienced | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | true | 17:37 |
| suihkulokki | well, that is still not a OS issue, but a gui issue | 17:37 |
| timeless | the smart user even asserted that they had properly configured the repositories | 17:37 |
| timeless | suihkulokki: well, erm | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | the end-user experience of 3rd party packages for the tablets is not as good as it can be | 17:37 |
| timeless | we're talking about installing stuff | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | it's a system issue | 17:37 |
| timeless | which isn't necessarily the role of the os | 17:37 |
| timeless | in fact, none of the os's mentioned here really force how installation works | 17:37 |
| timeless | on osx you can have a stupid installer | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | if you need smooth experience, you need a set of coherent, tested packages in a small set of repositories (one, preferably) | 17:38 |
| timeless | and on windows you can use an installer, or msi, or setup, or whatever | 17:38 |
| timeless | and on linux, there are dozens of ways to fail to install software | 17:38 |
| timeless | i just named a reasonable one | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | clicking on a package in downloads.maemo.org is a reasonable way to install software | 17:38 |
| timeless | note: we did install the software, after all, all you have to do is ask for the prereq(s) from the repositories | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | clicking on a .deb file isn't | 17:38 |
| *** trenka has quit IRC | 17:38 | |
| * timeless shrugs | 17:39 | |
| timeless | tell that to a reporter | 17:39 |
| timeless | or to you manager's manager | 17:39 |
| timeless | or your manager's peer | 17:39 |
| mgedmin | no, tell that to nokians | 17:39 |
| maddler | yes, but from my point of view on a Linux box I have tons of informations to recover if something goes wrong... | 17:39 |
| timeless | it doesn't work so well | 17:39 |
| mgedmin | who should not advertise the ability to click on .debs | 17:39 |
| maddler | on MS a lot of time the only solution was to start from scratch and install from zero... | 17:39 |
| mgedmin | when system X does something badly, it is not consoling to hear that system Y does something else badly | 17:40 |
| mgedmin | I'd rather talk about how to improve system X | 17:40 |
| timeless | mgedmin: um | 17:40 |
| timeless | you realize that we might have been trying to install from downloads.maemo, right? :) | 17:41 |
| maddler | mgedmin: absolutely yes | 17:41 |
| suihkulokki | actually the problem is that third parties are too lazy to distribute their apps properly | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | which, in my opinion, would be to have Ubuntu/Debian style mongo-repository that has all the software you might ever need | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | uploaded and tested by volunteers (because it's too big of a job for a small group of nokia employees) | 17:41 |
| timeless | mgedmin:that's pretty much the only way to do it | 17:41 |
| timeless | but what do you do when you want to buy software? | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | suihkulokki: partially, yes, but partially 3rd parties don't know what the proper way is | 17:41 |
| * timeless pokes mgedmin ini private | 17:42 | |
| mgedmin | timeless: buy software? why would I ever want to do that? | 17:42 |
| timeless | mgedmin: i don't care about you | 17:42 |
| timeless | i care about my sister | 17:42 |
| timeless | or some other person who might actually want to | 17:42 |
| mgedmin | I think they want to have software, rather than specifically to buy it | 17:42 |
| timeless | (presupposing i have a sister, but the point is that there need to be normal people buying this device) | 17:43 |
| * timeless shrugs | 17:43 | |
| mgedmin | which means free/open-source software is a good answer | 17:43 |
| mgedmin | when it does what they need | 17:43 |
| keesj | I guess .net,java , python and ruby are the real answers to portability | 17:43 |
| timeless | if she can't figure out how to use it, then it doesn't matter if you could use it to do what she needs | 17:43 |
| timeless | keesj: javascript | 17:43 |
| timeless | the real answer is to just let google write all apps you can possibly need | 17:43 |
| *** Lad has left #maemo | 17:44 | |
| mgedmin | timeless: true | 17:44 |
| timeless | they'll run everywhere | 17:44 |
| mgedmin | do you think your hypothetical sister could figure out how to use the green "install" links on downloads.maemo.org? | 17:44 |
| timeless | half of the arrows are white | 17:44 |
| timeless | and have scary text she probably wouldn't reed | 17:44 |
| timeless | s/reed/read/ | 17:44 |
| timeless | but no | 17:45 |
| timeless | because she wouldn't be able to *find* the write software | 17:45 |
| keesj | timeless: I must say that I was really happy when my n800 crashed that google saved a draft of my email :p | 17:45 |
| timeless | i know i can't | 17:45 |
| timeless | keesj: =) | 17:45 |
| timeless | i have 3 crashed geckos on my desktop | 17:45 |
| timeless | and i have 22 drafts in gmail | 17:45 |
| timeless | i'm most definitely glad that i don't have to trust my browser | 17:45 |
| mgedmin | timeless: what then would be a good way to search for software? | 17:45 |
| timeless | or my device's battery | 17:45 |
| timeless | mgedmin: dunno | 17:45 |
| timeless | let's see | 17:45 |
| timeless | it's almost 11am on the east coast? | 17:46 |
| timeless | Look for applications | 17:46 |
| timeless | Keyword: _____________________ | 17:46 |
| timeless | IT OS: [IT OS 2006] | 17:46 |
| timeless | License: [Any license______] | 17:46 |
| timeless | Status: [Any status_______] | 17:46 |
| timeless | [ Fetch! ] | 17:46 |
| keesj | but I also agree with Jaffa's post, there is a need to run the webapplications offline | 17:46 |
| mgedmin | yeah, that's scary | 17:46 |
| timeless | that's *definitely* not the way my sister is going to look for software | 17:46 |
| timeless | license? | 17:46 |
| mgedmin | I want a google-like interface | 17:46 |
| timeless | status? | 17:46 |
| timeless | os? | 17:46 |
| timeless | who the **** cares/ | 17:46 |
| mgedmin | automatic filtering by OS, if I use opera on a tablet | 17:46 |
| timeless | and i have no idea if keyword is remotely useful | 17:47 |
| mgedmin | automatic filtering out of experimental software (ones that wasn't tested and reported as working) | 17:47 |
| timeless | keyword: "youtube" | 17:47 |
| timeless | There is no result matching the search criteria. Please try again. | 17:47 |
| timeless | their English is also bead | 17:47 |
| mgedmin | keyword search is useful, when you know what you look for | 17:47 |
| timeless | s/bead/bad/ | 17:47 |
| mgedmin | keyword: "ssh" | 17:47 |
| timeless | what kind of word is that? | 17:47 |
| mgedmin | probably not what your sister wants :) | 17:47 |
| timeless | my sister wouldn't know an ssh if it bit her | 17:48 |
| mgedmin | please don't tell me she uses telnet! that's not secure! *grin* | 17:48 |
| timeless | well, maybe if some little kid came to her and said "shhhh" | 17:48 |
| timeless | telnet? ssh? to what? why? | 17:48 |
| timeless | actually, she's been to college and probably does know to use ssh | 17:48 |
| timeless | but let's ignore that :) | 17:48 |
| keesj | or "I installed ssh but nothing happens" | 17:49 |
| timeless | she probably used pine at times | 17:49 |
| timeless | keesj: that'd definitely happen | 17:49 |
| * mgedmin tests | 17:49 | |
| mgedmin | keyword search for "maps" finds nothing, but "map" finds maemo-mapper (and nmap) | 17:49 |
| timeless | icq: | 17:49 |
| timeless | There is no result matching the search criteria. Please try again. | 17:49 |
| timeless | searching for 'shell' doesn't return ssh | 17:50 |
| keesj | I have the luck that my girlfriend runs on gentoo :p | 17:50 |
| zuh | timeless: So you are about to figure a way to find software without knowing what to look for? If you succeed, please don't patent the method so we can use it in the various other places where this exactly same problem is... | 17:50 |
| keesj | what kind of shell you you want? | 17:50 |
| zuh | ;) | 17:50 |
| timeless | keesj: secure shell :) | 17:50 |
| mgedmin | the categories on downloads.maemo.org are strange | 17:51 |
| mgedmin | "religion"? | 17:51 |
| timeless | searching for ssh gives | 17:51 |
| timeless | Missing .install file | 17:51 |
| mgedmin | where are themes? | 17:51 |
| timeless | there's a qoran thing on garage | 17:51 |
| timeless | and iirc some other strange christian thing | 17:51 |
| mgedmin | timeless: openssh has a working .install file | 17:51 |
| timeless | i'm too lazy to check my cross reference | 17:51 |
| timeless | mgedmin: i'm going to intentionally choose the worst side of all results | 17:51 |
| mgedmin | that's cheating! | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | :) | 17:52 |
| timeless | in this case, i have an excuse, dropbear came first | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | first out of two results | 17:52 |
| timeless | what stupid algorithm favors alphabetical over GOOD? | 17:52 |
| timeless | where we can define good to be "install file and green download icon" | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | stupid algorithm that doesn't know good from bad, probably | 17:52 |
| * timeless assumes the alg is alphabetical | 17:52 | |
| mgedmin | +1 for hiding uninstallable software | 17:52 |
| timeless | hello, it knows the green arrow | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | by default | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | it's a bit pointless, because the pages without an .install link often have a homepage link that points to upstream, rather than a port page | 17:53 |
| timeless | first hit for 'game' is "Missing .install file" | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | so you have absolutely NO WAY to install the thing on your tablet | 17:53 |
| timeless | heh | 17:53 |
| timeless | fwiw, the list is definitely alphabetical | 17:53 |
| mgedmin | which is better than arbitrary | 17:54 |
| timeless | um | 17:54 |
| mgedmin | but I'd prefer google-style smart searching | 17:54 |
| timeless | favoring install files is better | 17:54 |
| timeless | of course, there's a minor problem | 17:54 |
| mgedmin | a good thing to do now would be to extract constructive suggestions from this rant and post it on a blog somewhere | 17:54 |
| makuchaku | Umm... where can I find the *.vkb files in the scratchbox directory? Actually, i'm trying to make an indic keyboard layout - but dont know where to install the .vkb files | 17:54 |
| timeless | which is that the thing i want is crazyparking and it doesn't have an install file | 17:54 |
| keesj | normal users will not even know what device they are holding | 17:54 |
| mgedmin | or in the garage tracker for the downloads.maemo.org project (was it called midgard-cms?) | 17:54 |
| timeless | mgedmin: please join the channel i invited you into | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | you did? | 17:55 |
| makuchaku | got it - /usr/share/keyboards | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | oh, the server message got lost in another tab | 17:55 |
| maddler | mgedmin: pages on download.maemo.org have been created importing wiki's informations... | 18:06 |
| maddler | mgedmin: and a lot of times links were pointing to upstream isntead of .deb location | 18:07 |
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| maddler | they need to be revised/fixed | 18:07 |
| mgedmin | yes | 18:08 |
| mgedmin | it would be good to have a split: packages ready for end-users, and packages that need some revision/fixing | 18:08 |
| maddler | btw, I think many problems comes from the fact that N800 is a commercial product powered by an open source project... | 18:09 |
| maddler | so people expect to get what they are used to get from commercial stuff... | 18:09 |
| maddler | obviously... | 18:09 |
| timeless | quality? | 18:09 |
| mgedmin | maybe | 18:09 |
| timeless | such unreasonable expectations | 18:09 |
| maddler | yes... also... | 18:09 |
| timeless | support? | 18:09 |
| * timeless actually hasn't heard people complaining about lack o support | 18:09 | |
| mgedmin | I look upon it as an open-source project with some unfortunate commercial tie-ins | 18:09 |
| maddler | everything someone is used to get from a commercial product... | 18:10 |
| maddler | but the they hit the problems of an opensource project... | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | maybe that's because I haven't used commercial software products for many years | 18:10 |
| maddler | mgedmin: hehehehe... same here... | 18:10 |
| timeless | in some or many ways 770/n800 are the worst of both open and closed source worlds | 18:10 |
| keesj | the User related website has a good experiance, I don't remeber the name | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | still, look at ubuntu | 18:10 |
| mgedmin | the quality they've achieved is spectacular for a desktop linux distro | 18:11 |
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| timeless | mgedmin: dunno, people regularly complain about kubuntu | 18:11 |
| maddler | if I find something I don't like, or I can't find something I need, I simply try to fix that... | 18:11 |
| mgedmin | that's just a way of expressing their love :) | 18:11 |
| timeless | i know people who complain about problems getting networking to work | 18:11 |
| maddler | timeless: I'm using both Ubuntu and Kubuntu, and I'm fine... | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | I suppose if your hardware is supported, you're happy | 18:12 |
| timeless | maddler: why would you use both? | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | if not, you're in hell | 18:12 |
| timeless | oddly | 18:12 |
| timeless | in this case, his hardware (laptop) worked fine at home | 18:12 |
| keesj | I must say that ubuntu is pretty user friendly, perhaps that is why I don't like is as desktop os | 18:12 |
| timeless | but had issues w/ wifi at work | 18:12 |
| mgedmin | I had some fun with ATI video... crashes twice a week for half a year | 18:12 |
| maddler | timeless: because I use Ubuntu Server on some systems and Kubuntu on my desktops | 18:12 |
| maddler | mgedmin: that's ATI's fault :) | 18:13 |
| maddler | not Ubuntu or Linux :D | 18:13 |
| timeless | maddler: err | 18:13 |
| timeless | it's ubuntu's fault | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | that's exactly who I blame :) | 18:13 |
| timeless | they're one stop shopping | 18:13 |
| timeless | "the buck stops here" | 18:13 |
| timeless | ubuntu is free to blame ati if they like | 18:13 |
| timeless | but as a user, you get to blame ubuntu | 18:13 |
| mgedmin | timeless: ubuntu offered me a full refund of $0, but I declined | 18:14 |
| timeless | heh | 18:14 |
| timeless | i bet they didn't refund your time | 18:14 |
| * timeless frowns | 18:14 | |
| timeless | people who think their time is worth nothing ... | 18:14 |
| maddler | yes, but you also have to realize that Ubuntu can't do miracles if producers are not releasing free drivers... | 18:14 |
| * timeless shrugs | 18:14 | |
| timeless | "not my problem" | 18:14 |
| timeless | as a user, i don't care what the excuse is | 18:14 |
| timeless | i don't want to hear it | 18:14 |
| maddler | ok, just keep complaining then... | 18:15 |
| maddler | what else could I say? | 18:15 |
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| timeless | well, there's fuse | 18:15 |
| maddler | if you don't wanna hear reasons... | 18:15 |
| timeless | conceptually you could emulate things (although if you send the video card into a bad, state, you're hosed) | 18:15 |
| mgedmin | timeless is right, reasons aren't important when you're in a hurry to get something done and cannot | 18:16 |
| timeless | alternatively, you can offer a more basic safe driver | 18:16 |
| timeless | although iirc ubuntu isn't shipping the nvidia driver | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | I don't want to be a car's mechanic, I want to just sit and drive | 18:16 |
| timeless | :) | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | which is why I get to blame Nokia for all the Opera crashes | 18:16 |
| mgedmin | FIX THEM RIGHT NOW!!! :) | 18:16 |
| maddler | mgedmin: that's true but I mean you can't always complain with $YOUR_DISTRO_HERE if a producer is not releasing/support {good|free} drivers... | 18:17 |
| maddler | _of course_ is different when you buy a device like N800... | 18:17 |
| mgedmin | maddler: I can complain, but the producer can say "sorry we cannot do anything about it" | 18:17 |
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| mgedmin | err s/producer/distro/ | 18:17 |
| timeless | mgedmin: but seriously | 18:18 |
| maddler | mgedmin: yep, but then who's failing? | 18:18 |
| timeless | make a folder "core-dumps" on your external mmc | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | I have one | 18:18 |
| mgedmin | it used to fill all the free space on my mmc :) | 18:19 |
| maddler | that would be nice if every producer was releasing specs and free drivers, but they aren't... | 18:19 |
| timeless | mgedmin: i made sure my mmc was 512m when i started and upgraded to 1g a while ago | 18:19 |
| maddler | and I can't complain with Ubuntu, Debian, Slackware, $WHATEVER about that... | 18:19 |
| timeless | maddler: so, as mgedmin realized | 18:19 |
| timeless | if your software crashes, you should have a way to get a crash report from the user | 18:20 |
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| timeless | and if you are shipping someone else's software, you should have a way to get the crash report to the upstream vendor | 18:20 |
| maddler | timeless: that would be right, of course... | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | I've a 4gb sd card today | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | hey, it's in the internal slot, which means /media/mmc2, which means my kernel is looking at /media/mmc1 and not finding core-dumps there | 18:20 |
| * mgedmin mkdirs | 18:20 | |
| maddler | timeless: yes... that was what I was trying to say... when I was talking about the dual nature of 770/N800 | 18:21 |
| maddler | the point is that Nokia should find a way to make commercial and open source souls work together... | 18:21 |
| maddler | otherwise end-users will keep complaining... | 18:22 |
| maddler | about open source problems... | 18:22 |
| maddler | I can accept them if I freely choose to use an opensource program... | 18:22 |
| maddler | things change if I buy a commercial product (which is different from talking about a linux distro) | 18:23 |
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| maddler | if I (Jon Doe, end user) buy a commercial product I simply want it to work | 18:23 |
| maddler | and here I agree with what you were saying... | 18:24 |
| maddler | but only if we are talking about a commercial product, not about distros... | 18:24 |
| maddler | doh... I killed everyone?! :) | 18:26 |
| keesj | If I buy software I have no expectations whatsoever. | 18:27 |
| maddler | keesj: :) | 18:30 |
| maddler | I;m not buying commercial software since years... | 18:30 |
| maddler | except a couple apps for my phones | 18:30 |
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| disq | hey all | 19:20 |
| keesj | maddler: it is not my fault but my bosses hava paided for a few windows licences I never used | 19:20 |
| keesj | Hi disq | 19:20 |
| disq | i got more to rant, about the mpm functionality lackage | 19:20 |
| disq | using the n800 as a pmp is so much harder because there's no cover, you have to bring the device on from soft poweroff mode just to adjust volume etc | 19:20 |
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| disq | s/mpm/pmp | 19:21 |
| disq | with the 770 you used to slide the cover just enough so it would unlock the keys, adjust volume, slide it back | 19:21 |
| keesj | disq: yes , use a wiiremote it sounds like the best thing for you | 19:21 |
| disq | wiiremote is too big | 19:22 |
| ptman | In case someone is interested, there now exists a packaged ssh-askpass implementation for maemo | 19:22 |
| disq | i'm thinking something like, port/compile/use mpd if it can be done, then play with the mpc client | 19:22 |
| ptman | deb http://paul.totterman.name/maemo/ mistral user | 19:22 |
| disq | make a full screen mode that requires specific tap sequence to unlock, the volume buttons would always remain unlocked, etc | 19:23 |
| maddler | keesj: hehehe... I think mine is actually paying for a fre thousand licenses... :) | 19:24 |
| maddler | s/fre/few | 19:24 |
| keesj | ptman: it looks like your university building can be used as sun oven http://www.tkk.fi/img/2007_DSC_0139.jpg :p | 19:25 |
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| ptman | not quite, it's a amphitheater =) | 19:26 |
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| keesj | is there snow there right now? | 19:26 |
| ptman | not that much, but some | 19:26 |
| ptman | there's more ice, it's quite slippery | 19:27 |
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| maddler | +18 here :D | 19:30 |
| keesj | 30+ here :( | 19:30 |
| maddler | 30+?! | 19:40 |
| maddler | where the hell are you? | 19:40 |
| * timeless would point to weatherchannel.com | 19:44 | |
| * timeless wonders if people are measuring in F or C | 19:45 | |
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| idan | howdy | 19:45 |
| idan | does anybody know what bootreason "por" means? | 19:45 |
| idan | my 770 occasionally boots at random times (no alarms or anything set) and this is the only clue I have so far | 19:46 |
| timeless | google didn't work? | 19:46 |
| idan | timeless: I found one unresolved posting on itt forums | 19:46 |
| idan | with the same question :( | 19:46 |
| timeless | idan: please hold | 19:47 |
| idan | tried varying combinations of keywords: nokia maemo 770 bootreason por | 19:47 |
| timeless | there's a thing around that explains them | 19:47 |
| timeless | i'd assume it measn you ran out of power | 19:47 |
| timeless | the reasons are POR, SW_RST, 32WD_TO and bad_shutdown | 19:48 |
| sp3000 | http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ReportingRebootIssues is one such thing, with a table that's missing that value | 19:48 |
| timeless | pwr_key | 19:48 |
| timeless | isn't in my list | 19:48 |
| timeless | ok | 19:48 |
| timeless | got the list | 19:48 |
| timeless | pwr_key | 19:49 |
| timeless | start-up reason was power key | 19:49 |
| idan | yeah, that's when I turn it on normally | 19:49 |
| timeless | charger | 19:49 |
| timeless | start-up reason was charger | 19:49 |
| timeless | rtc_alarm | 19:49 |
| timeless | start-up reason was rtc_alarm | 19:49 |
| timeless | por | 19:49 |
| timeless | start-up reason was reset (USELESS) | 19:49 |
| idan | great | 19:49 |
| timeless | sw_rst | 19:49 |
| timeless | start-up reason was reset | 19:49 |
| timeless | 32wd_to | 19:49 |
| timeless | start-up reason was OMAP wd timeout | 19:49 |
| idan | not seeing any of the other ones :( | 19:50 |
| idan | just pwr_key when I turn it on normally | 19:50 |
| idan | and por when it is on when I don't expect it should be | 19:50 |
| zuh | timeless: Maybe you should output those to the wiki instead of this channel ;) | 19:50 |
| timeless | zuh: i hate wikis | 19:50 |
| sp3000 | idan, does /var/lib/dsme/stats/por have anything | 19:50 |
| sp3000 | timeless: wikis feed into google | 19:50 |
| timeless | anyway, /var/lib/dsme/stats/por is the file to read | 19:50 |
| sp3000 | :) | 19:50 |
| idan | sp3000: uh, one minute | 19:50 |
| timeless | sp3000: not well, see other network here someone explained the wiki search worked better | 19:50 |
| sp3000 | then again, this cahnnel feeds into google | 19:51 |
| timeless | yes, it does :) | 19:51 |
| sp3000 | but the context per document is kinda large (1 day) | 19:51 |
| idan | hooray! my 770 is on, which is bad, but it's good, because I don't have to bash my head trying to reproduce the issue :) | 19:51 |
| idan | looking now | 19:51 |
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| timeless | sp3000: it could be worse, they could be searching what i'm searching | 19:53 |
| idan | sp3000: gah, unfortunately this time bootreason is pwr_key, will try to get it to act badly again | 19:54 |
| idan | /var/lib/dsme/stats/por == 10 but I suppose that is a normal value | 19:54 |
| sp3000 | the dsme stats files don't go away though | 19:54 |
| timeless | it's a counter | 19:54 |
| timeless | ever increasing | 19:54 |
| * sp3000 doesn't have that file, presumably because bootreason has never been por since last flash | 19:55 | |
| timeless | well, in theory it could probably overflow | 19:55 |
| idan | ah, see, my nokia did it again | 19:55 |
| timeless | but i don't think you'll live long enough for that | 19:55 |
| idan | I shut down and it boots up right away | 19:55 |
| idan | let's see bootreason | 19:55 |
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| idan | sp3000: but what does the por thing mean anyways? | 19:56 |
| timeless | idan: we really don't know | 19:56 |
| idan | timeless: :) ah well | 19:56 |
| idan | well -- if it's not known what it *means* | 19:56 |
| idan | at least I know it's the reason for 10 bad boots | 19:57 |
| idan | yeah, now I have bootreason: por | 19:57 |
| idan | :( | 19:57 |
| idan | and stats shows por == 11 | 19:58 |
| timeless | ok, lemme try again | 19:59 |
| idan | I"m going to create a bugzilla account -- is there any other information you think would be useful to include in the ticket? | 19:59 |
| timeless | this is a more painful version | 19:59 |
| idan | I have the issue "replicated" and that's not an always kinda thing | 19:59 |
| timeless | definitely include steps to reproduce | 19:59 |
| idan | steps: sometimes it just turns on, unbeknownst to me | 20:00 |
| idan | sometimes, when shutting down, it boots right away | 20:00 |
| idan | :) | 20:00 |
| * timeless frowns | 20:01 | |
| timeless | where does /proc live normally anyway? | 20:01 |
| suihkulokki | in | 20:02 |
| suihkulokki | *drum rolls* | 20:02 |
| suihkulokki | /proc ！ | 20:02 |
| timeless | sp3000: kernel is not included in swift/release | 20:03 |
| timeless | do i need to browse it elsewhere? :( | 20:03 |
| timeless | oh, heh | 20:03 |
| timeless | kernel isn't a package! | 20:03 |
| timeless | ok | 20:04 |
| lle2 | I've had the reboot after trying to shutdown too | 20:04 |
| lle2 | happens when the battery is empty | 20:04 |
| lle2 | also if I power off through the "shutdown menu" it reboots | 20:05 |
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| lle2 | if I simply hold the power button until it shuts down it doesn't reboot | 20:05 |
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| lle2 | removing the battery is the best way to shut it down, has never rebooted on me | 20:06 |
| maddler | lle2: you could also wait until the battery is completely depleted... it will shutdown and no reboot :) | 20:11 |
| lle2 | maddler: yes, I've considered that too, but I dislike the hey-my-battery-is-almost-dead jingle | 20:14 |
| * zuh dislikes the fact that there is no closer-to-hw power button | 20:15 | |
| timeless | removing the battery is fairly reliable | 20:15 |
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| zuh | It's annoying to rip off the battery when you test some boot thing and it doesn't result in a fully working system... | 20:16 |
| maddler | lle2: :) | 20:17 |
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| lle2 | zuh: you can hold the battery half inserted | 20:19 |
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| maddler | lle2: what about a switch on the battery? :) | 20:28 |
| zuh | lle2: Or solder a switch there myself, but that's hardly my point :) | 20:32 |
| lle2 | I've been trying to developer a cool slap-the-tablet move that would pop out the battery, flip it around in the air and land it back in to the slot | 20:34 |
| lle2 | so far no success | 20:34 |
| zuh | I also could disasseble the thing, reassemble to a different casing and write the software from scratch but it'd take a bit more time than I'm willing to spend on the "hardware reset" problem... ;) | 20:35 |
| lle2 | zuh: while you're re-assembling it, please put in some decent battery charging circuit, you might get usb charging as a bonus + the device might be able to power itself without a battery, thanks. | 20:38 |
| lle2 | it's amazing how much work has gone into implementing a completely screwed up power subsystem :] | 20:43 |
| suihkulokki | mm.. let me guess, created in oulu? | 20:44 |
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| lle2 | suihkulokki: no idea :) but it's the same in all the nokia hw, so I guess it's in some template somewhere | 20:46 |
| lle2 | suihkulokki: and we thought copy&paste sw development was bad ;P | 20:47 |
| disq | heh i had to install 17 debs just to get maemo-blog compile, but it still won't work. probably incompatible with bora or something | 20:53 |
| dolfun | linux magazine germany has a big article on the N800 (as they must) :) | 20:54 |
| keesj | is it in the shops already? | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | the magazine, or N800? | 21:01 |
| mgedmin | N800 was in the shops two days before it was released, iirc | 21:02 |
| keesj | the mag :) I have a n800 right here :p | 21:02 |
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| dolfun | 03/07 Linux Magagin - picked up at Aral filling station | 21:05 |
| dolfun | i nagged the local filling station every week when they dropped linux magazin and they have picked it up again :) | 21:06 |
| dolfun | afk reading | 21:06 |
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| cosmo_ | hello.. anyone managed to install scratchbox and maemo toolchain on a 64 bit system? | 21:32 |
| keesj | cosmo_: I think it has been done before , but not by me , try searching the irc logs | 21:33 |
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| cosmo_ | i found 64 bit debs for scratchbox, but no toolchain | 21:38 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 23:14 |
| maddler | ao' | 23:20 |
| maddler | :D | 23:20 |
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| sbaturzio | maddler: Ciao. still at home? it's saturday night! ;-) | 23:24 |
| obi | isn't it sunday night in italy, too? :-) | 23:26 |
| sbaturzio | obi: well...depends if you are still awake from saturday night ;-) | 23:26 |
| obi | hehe | 23:26 |
| sbaturzio | boys....I'm drunk....father-in-law give us a huge quantity of alcoholics | 23:27 |
| maddler | sbaturzio: isn't it sunday?! | 23:28 |
| maddler | :D | 23:28 |
| maddler | sbaturzio: hehehehe... we wen't to a nice osteria near Campo de' Fiori today... | 23:28 |
| maddler | GREAT food man! :D | 23:28 |
| sbaturzio | maddler: Venice? | 23:28 |
| maddler | Rome :) | 23:29 |
| sbaturzio | ah! | 23:29 |
| maddler | hehehe | 23:29 |
| sbaturzio | maddler: I've not seen the "de'" | 23:29 |
| sbaturzio | I'm sure there is a "Campo dei fiori" in Venice too | 23:29 |
| maddler | sbaturzio: I think you just saw double :D | 23:29 |
| maddler | sbaturzio: dunno... maybe... | 23:29 |
| maddler | but Roma's one is TM! :D | 23:30 |
| maddler | other are copies :D | 23:30 |
| sbaturzio | maddler: yeah...is not "Campo" but "Campiello" ;-) | 23:31 |
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| maddler | sbaturzio: see... "campiello" it has to be something small! :D | 23:54 |
| sbaturzio | maddler: yeah...in venice there are "campielli" everywhere. Most of them are big more or less as a car ;-) | 23:55 |
| sbaturzio | and I think the food is not the same as in Rome | 23:55 |
| sbaturzio | especially for the "porchetta" :-9 | 23:56 |
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