IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2007-01-11

JaffaAleksandyr: MUD's my auto-builder for Maemo for relatively simple ports from upstream sources: http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/00:00
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AleksandyrJaffa: interesting concept00:00
framerateAleksandyr: heh I know, I'm just not patient today :)00:00
qgil" Jaffa: I suspect it's all a ruse to get everyone running about releasing stuff they're sitting on." - I don't think so00:00
AleksandyrJaffa: it's quite a bit like what I'm already doing now ;)00:01
etrunkohttp://www.qoheleth.uklinux.net/blog/?p=13600:01
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JaffaThe aim is two fold: a) simplify porting process for things  like vim, privoxy, rsync, netcat, etc. and b) ensure that the mud-builder team (well, me ATM) are responsible for the headache of uploading them to the extras repo and other release management stuff once someone's done the interesting bit of doing a port.00:01
Jaffaqgil: Ah, I seem to have left off the smiley ;-)00:01
Aleksandyretrunko: bwhahahahah00:01
etrunkolol00:02
qgilJaffa: just checking  ;)00:02
Jaffaetrunko: heh00:02
etrunko"he's stolen my idea"00:02
etrunko:O00:02
etrunkohehe00:02
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roopebulk chat messenger would be great.00:03
JaffaAleksandyr: if you fancy having a play in your totally unbusy hacking life, the Subversion's now up-to-date; should just be a case of checking it out into Scratchbox and doing './mud build cal'00:04
koen"cheap m4em0, by now"00:04
koenbuy*00:04
JaffaAleksandyr: The aim is that it'll fix debs so they're AI-compatible too (i.e Section: user/...), include X-Maemo-Icon etc.00:04
framerategnuite posted a news update about maemo mapper, apparently it's being annoying to compile :(00:06
AleksandyrJaffa: oh, I imagine I'll be contributing to mud before long --- if it works, I can obsolete myself ;)00:06
AleksandyrJaffa: it sounds like mud could have done 75% of the lifting as far as JamVM/etf00:06
koenframerate: note the irony on that00:06
Aleksandyrs/etf/etc00:06
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tzzI got the entire Maemo 3.0 environment running, it was not too bad in the end.  Thanks to everyone for the help.00:09
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c0ffee\o/00:09
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AleksandyrI thought one of the changes in Maemo 3.0 brought about an improved maemo-installer script ;)00:09
tzzxephyr runs too00:09
c0ffeexephyr for gentoo is USE="kdrive" emerge xorg-server00:10
tzzit's pretty good, I just had to ignore the scratchbox.org docs :)00:10
tzzbasically, just `apt-get install scratchbox-core scratchbox-devkit-debian scratchbox-devkit-doctools scratchbox-devkit-perl scratchbox-libs scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm scratchbox-devkit-cputransp scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-i386 xserver-xephyr'00:11
* Aleksandyr is rather hoping that the eclipse-scratchbox integration project will work with M3.0 ;)00:11
tzzand then I ran the installer script, and everything worked00:11
framerateI'm off.. cheers guys00:11
Aleksandyrlater framerate00:12
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kenderguerby, what is what osso-xterm haven't got and xterm yes?00:22
guerbykender, osso-xterm has probably a smoother interface to the N770/800 virtual keyboard that a regular xterm00:23
guerbykender, otherwise it's just an xterm00:23
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kenderguerby, then, why you want xterm?00:25
guerbykender, ps, top, cp, mv, dmesg, dd, cat, more ....00:25
kenderI see00:25
guerbykender, old time unix user :)00:25
kenderI know them00:26
kenderI love them00:26
kenderhehehe00:26
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atlahi00:26
guerbydpkg -l > dpkg-n800.txt etc00:26
kenderyes00:26
kender:)00:26
guerbyssh to another unix machine00:26
guerbyetc00:26
kenderscp00:26
kender;-)00:26
kenderor...cat with ssh00:26
kenderhehe00:26
atlaany information yet available on the n800 developer device program? are only approved developers receiving codes?00:26
guerbykender, I use rsync00:27
kenderguerby, but, those doesn't come with busybox?00:27
guerbykender, they're on applicationcatalog200600:27
guerbyI assume they'll soon be here for n80000:27
kenderhehe00:27
guerbyhey first browser crash00:28
Aleksandyratla: I have yet to hear of anyone receiving a code00:28
guerbyon nokia.com/support ...00:28
atlahmk00:28
kenderguerby, hehe00:28
kenderInteresting00:28
atlabut i guess only developers are receiving them that already wrote software using the maemo platform?00:28
kenderone of their product crashing in their own page00:29
kenderhehe00:29
Aleksandyratla: nobody knows the judging criteria, but that is the assumption, yes00:29
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atlak thx00:30
gpdOS2007 Tested Apps page says python 2.4 from maemo repository -- i don't see it - do they mean minstral?00:30
atlaany speculations yet about nokia reducing the price of the 770 more than 350e00:31
kenderguerby, what kernel does n800 have?00:31
gpdkender: 2.6.18-imap100:32
kender:) great00:32
gpds/imap/omap/00:32
guerbykender cat /proc/version says 2.6.18-omap1 compiled 19Dec200600:32
kenderthanks!00:32
guerbyI have 2.2006.51-6 (out of the box no upgrade)00:32
gpdso in general -- should mistral stuff work on bora if it doesn't use any graphics? [rule of thumb?]00:33
qgilatla, do you think there are 500 developers that have already written code using the maemo platform?00:34
atlahm00:34
atlawould be my guess00:34
atlaif you only refer to it as "written code using maemo platform" :)00:35
Aleksandyrqgil: There are easily 500 developers by that definition ;)00:35
atlanot in terms of written a whole usable application00:35
atlayep00:35
qgilatla: I was quoting you   :)00:35
guerbywow flasher-2.0 is 495344 bytes and  3.0 is 4023600:35
atla:P00:36
atlahm00:36
kenderguerby, flasher 2.0 is static00:36
kenderguerby, flasher 3.0 dinamic00:36
kenderthat's all00:36
guerbykender, probably00:36
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guerbyinteresting I didn't have to upgrade the OS, so I guess only early built N800 have an older firmware00:37
gpdguerby: i got mine on sunday and it was 47.2000:37
kenderso, mine will have it the last, nice :)00:38
guerbygpd, orderer monday got it today (could have been tuesday if I had catched the UPS guy), came from brussels00:38
gpdso should i add the mistral repository to my app manager to install some of these 'tested 2007' apps?00:39
gpdi am slightly disturbed by this00:39
guerbygpd me too so I didn't do it, I just added the suggested bora one for X Term00:39
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guerbyno other for now00:40
gpdi suppose i can just reflash it -- i fear the brick00:40
guerbygpd, I'm not that in a hurry, still things to play with without fear of breaking :)00:40
gpdya -- but i am a day ahead of you ;)00:41
atlathere are lots of apps in the applicationcatalog00:41
gpdbored already! (joke)00:41
atla(regarding the amount of maemo developers)00:41
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gpdatla: on the tested page it says python -- but the .deb from mistral has dependencies - so would require a hunt and gather00:41
Aleksandyratla: application catalog + garage + ITT + #maemo + [maemo-developers]00:42
atlayeah00:42
guerbygpd, you're braver than me :)00:42
atlaso enough00:42
atlawell00:42
Jaffa+ open source people contributing to the underlying software (apparently)00:42
atlais opengl available on maemo?00:42
keesjnope00:42
atlanot even some kind of mesa?00:42
keesji don't think so00:43
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JaffaSome simple Debian packages have fubared dependencies. Building netcat ultimately depends on tk00:45
framerateAnyone got xtem working on n800 after flashing to os update?00:45
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guerbyframerate, I didn't have to flash since mine came with 2.2006.51-6 and I have no pb with xterm from bora00:46
framerateHmm mine worked before the flash:(00:47
framerateYeah i got it from bora :(00:48
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catoblepahi..00:48
kenderany way to rescue of a fail flashing process?00:48
kenderIf you reboot it, I mean00:49
kenderfor example, like the boot_wait of the linksys routers00:49
kenderor, similar00:49
guerbyframerate, how does it fail? did you try the usual: ./flasher-2.0 --enable-rd-mode --set-rd-flags=no-lifeguard-reset00:50
guerby(flasher-3.0)00:50
catoblepaI've a little question: which is the name of wireless gui in my nokia. I try to find it with ps but I failed :P00:50
framerateXterm fails when i try to run it, os is fine00:51
nomiscatoblepa: you mean the applet in the top of the desktop window?00:52
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guerbyframerate, no idea then00:54
catoblepanomis: yes00:54
framerate"Internal Error"00:54
guerbyframerate, I assume you tried uninstall/reinstall :)00:55
keesjb.v.  emerge -pv  dev-util/git wordt zonder http support gebruild00:55
keesjoops00:55
framerate3 times ha00:55
framerateBrb trying reboot ha00:55
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nomiscatoblepa: a lot of this stuff runs as a plugin in the desktop process.00:57
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framerateNope, still no xterm00:58
Aleksandyranyone know where the list of Maemo/Hildon stock icons are? All I can get are the GTK ones00:59
catoblepanomis: yes, but if I would know which is the executable that draw the gui?01:00
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metajackhey all.  just got an N800 and set up the dev environment :) this thing rocks01:01
nomiscatoblepa: there is no "executable" for the gui, just a "shared object". You won't see this in the process listing.01:02
metajackshould i be worried about the copious errors when doing af-sb-start.sh and running maemo_hello?01:02
JaffaNo01:02
metajacklike "Failed to load plugin Contact Plugin"01:03
JaffaThat's fine01:03
JaffaThe Contact plugin only exists on the device itself01:03
metajackok.  so its not expected that i test things in the emulator? :)01:04
metajackor at least nothing that uses the contact plugin, etc01:04
JaffaNo, the contact plugin isn't part of Maemo: it's Nokia value-add01:04
catoblepanomis: thanks. can I have the source of this "shared object"? (I don't know if the sources are free, really)01:06
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metajackwhat about: "maemo-launcher: error rising the oom shield" or "matchbox: WARNING: failed to load /usr/share/matchbox/mbnoapp.xpm"01:06
JaffaSounds fine01:07
metajack"execl: No such file or directory" ?01:08
* metajack is just trying to make sure everything is set up correctly :)01:08
JaffaIf it works, it's right ;-)01:08
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metajackwell the image i got was different from that in the docs slightly.  i was missing the little contact app icon on the left side.  other than that it seemed to be the same.01:09
framerate2So noone has seen or heard anything about other people having trouble with xterm with the newest N800 OS?01:09
framerate2I find it odd I'd be the only one01:09
metajacki figured i'd make sure the errors didn't mean i missed a piece01:09
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framerate2Xterm is kinda crucial01:10
framerate2I didn't think this tablet would give me this much of a headache :(01:13
* framerate2 cries in the corner.01:14
keesjframerate2, perhaps you can install ssh and see what the error is?01:14
keesjhmm you need a password I guess01:15
framerate2How would I start ssh without the xterm?01:15
nomiscatoblepa: neither do I.01:15
framerate2It worked yesterday, prior to my memory card crash and white screen of death and then OS reinstall01:15
keesjon the 770 is is started by default if you installed openssh01:15
framerate2anyone know if compusa offers a satisfaction based return?01:18
tzzsometimes, but you may get hit with a restocking fee, 15%01:18
tzzI boycott CompUSA personally01:18
framerate2ouch01:18
tzzthat's why I ordered my N800 from Nokia direct01:19
framerate2I just want this thing to work so bad :(01:19
framerate2Is there a way to clear the memory on the device without hooking up to USB ? maybe something else is messedup, could clear memory and start fresh with xterm first?01:20
tzztry looking at logs with the web browser, using file:///01:20
JaffaHmm, interesting: FM radio in N800? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28776 Certainly seems to have the s/w support01:20
tzzdon't know much about clearing without a reinstall though, sorry01:20
framerate2where would the relevent log files be for a crashing app?01:22
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tzzdon't know, /var/log usually but Maemo doesn't store much log data IIRC01:24
framerate2yeah, nothing there either :(01:25
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framerate2I don't understand how noone else is having trouble with N800 and xterm yet :(  I seem to be the only one01:25
c0ffeenoone has a N80001:26
JaffaEveryone's waiting, with baited breath, for the lucky dip.01:27
framerate2quite a few people have it here and on the forums... and they all seem to have xterm working :(01:27
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framerate2and I had it yesterday, before OS update01:27
Jaffaframerate2: OK, noone awake has an N800 :-(01:27
framerate2hah except me, with ANOTHER problem01:27
gpdi have n80001:27
c0ffeenoone that might be able to help you01:27
tzzhey this is REALLY cool.  I just compiled Emacs CVS (22) and it works with the i386 target!  Menus, etc. are working under GTK, including tear-off menus.  I'm compiling for ARM right now to see if that will work.01:27
gpdworking xterm01:27
framerate2gpd did you flash to newest OS?01:28
gpdyes01:28
framerate2I flashed yesterday after all my mem card problems, and today put xterm back on and it won't load01:28
Jaffatzz: if you look at my Sylpheed changes you'll see the easiest way of Hildonising it. Check the Subversion link off http://www.bleb.org/software/770/#sylpheed01:28
c0ffeewhy is there no gazpacho in bora?01:28
gpdosso-xterm works for me -01:28
gpdlet me check version number01:29
gpd0.13.mh13bora201:29
tzzthanks Jaffa, I'll look into it.  I don't think it needs much, really, to be useful, just key remapping and an icon.  Everything I tested works under the x86 target.01:30
tzzjaffa: so I may build something quickly for people to use, and then work on hildonizing it little by little01:31
Jaffatzz: makes sense01:31
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framerate2gpd: where you get that version? all I see is 0.13.mh13 from maemo.org bora repos01:34
framerate2I don't see the bora2 version01:34
tzzEmacs has stuff like ERC, Gnus, etc. that don't need external software to provide functionality, so this could be very useful.  I work in the Gnus project and know all about it: you can set up multiple IMAP and NNTP sources (among others).  My main concern is keyboard accessibility, I may need to add something like the XTerm "send control char" menu.01:34
tzzwith the 770 this wouldn't work, not enough memory, but 128 MB RAM should be enough for a functional Emacs.01:34
trenkaI was running  emacs and gnus on 77001:35
hubtzz: more that enough01:35
ntrsframerate2, osso-xterm for bora works fine on my N800 too.01:36
tzztrenka: I didn't know about an Emacs package for the 770, I would have used that01:36
framerate2ntrs did you reflash to the new OS that came out monday?01:36
ntrsframerate2, and SSH and pretty much any other mistral application (770) I installed01:36
framerate2everything else works except xterm, it worked before the flash01:36
ntrsYes, I reflashed to the latest version, the one that came out monday01:36
trenkaI did not make a package. Just make; make install. Remove unneeded and copy to /usr/local on 77001:37
framerate2well I don't understand why it's working for you then :(01:37
trenkaJust to check if it is possible01:37
framerate2I can't do anything without a terminal :(01:37
tzztrenka: I didn't get scratchbox working with Maemo 2.x (my kernel was too new) so I never got that working.  Oh well, with Maemo 3.x I should be able to start building packages.01:38
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c0ffeei know a good slogan for maemo01:39
trenkabut you should be crasy to enter emacs keybindings with virtual keyboard01:40
Jaffac0ffee ?01:40
c0ffeemaemo - error messages are to be ignored01:40
trenkaI do not remember them, my fingers do01:40
Jaffac0ffee: hehe01:41
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tzztrenka: bt keyboard is a must with Emacs, yes.  But I may map the menu button to M-x for example, and add a menu to send Control and Meta keys, while I'm Hildonizing it.01:41
trenkatzz: you are welcome :)01:42
tzzgood night all, thanks for all the help01:42
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metajackis python not set up by default in scratchbox?  trying to go through the python_maemo_howto.html01:46
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framerate2ok once again, uninstall, reboot, update catalog, reinstall. Same thing.  "Internal error. Application 'X Terminal' closed"01:47
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framerate2if anyone knows any log files I could browse with browser, that'd be great01:47
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dieguito-zzzI just installed a maemo 3.0 scratchbox, and it fails to open the file: [/usr/share/applications/hildon-control-panel/personalisation.desktop] when I click on Themes, what could be happening?01:51
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c0ffeedo you need that file?01:53
c0ffeei.e. would it help you with your development?01:54
dieguito-zzzno, but I wanted to know if it's a bug or it's intended to be like that01:54
dieguito-zzzso I can either report it or ignore it01:54
c0ffeeas i said earlier01:54
c0ffee00:40 < c0ffee> maemo - error messages are to be ignored01:54
dieguito-zzzhmm sorry I missed that01:55
c0ffeenevermind :)01:55
dieguito-zzzthanks :)01:55
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framerate2but c0ffee I can't ignore my error message o.O01:57
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c0ffeewhat's your error anyway?02:00
c0ffeebesides xterm doesn't work02:00
framerate2"Internal Error" is my xterm error :(02:00
framerate2that's it, right now02:00
framerate2I've managed to fix all the other problems but this one seems impossible02:00
c0ffeewhat are you doing when this error appears?02:01
framerate2opening xterm :(02:01
c0ffeeare you using osso-xterm or some other xterm?02:03
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framerate2osso-xterm from maemo.org's bora repos on a N800 that was flashed to the updated OS yesterday02:03
framerate2it worked prior to the update02:03
Fogles***P®ÅÑK§ @ vÊÑt.¹ÇÎ.ÇÔm:³³² - P®ÅÑK§, GÅMÎÑG, ®ÅGÎÑG, §TÎÇKÅM ®ÅGÎÑG, F®ÊÊ ÇÅFÊÅÇÇÔÛÑT GÎVÊÅWÅ¥02:03
framerate2but others here have updated and it is working for them02:04
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c0ffeeoh my god02:04
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c0ffeeframerate2, did you really just reflash and install the osso-xterm02:06
c0ffeeframerate2, or did you restore some profile data or do something else02:06
c0ffeeframerate2, might be worth trying to get your device in a virgin state again02:07
dieguito-zzzholy02:07
framerate2I didn't restore anything, I reflashed and installed 3-4 apps back on (since it's new)02:07
framerate2I left my USB cable at the office, not sure if I have one around here to use to reflash02:07
c0ffeeit's a std usb cable02:07
framerate2yep, we just moved :(02:08
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framerate2Do you know if the winodws install from Nokia will allow to reflash (as opposed to upgrade?)02:10
c0ffeewhat do you mean by reflash?02:10
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framerate2figured I'd need to reflash the OS to get it in a fresh state?02:11
framerate2Both my linux machines are monitorless, just windows and osx02:11
c0ffeewell02:11
c0ffeelast time i used the windows flasher, you had to point it at a firmware image, and it would just flash that image to the device02:12
c0ffeejust as the linux flasher does02:12
JaffaRight, mud's vaguely working; everything's checked in - time for bed.02:12
framerate2alright, I'll try that. thanks c0ffee02:12
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c0ffeegood luck :)02:14
Jaffaditto :)02:14
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Aleksandyrugh. These past three hours of pipe hacking remind me of why I stopped writing C in the first place02:23
AleksandyrI'm fairly sure normal people don't fantasize about going back in time and shooting whoever decided to make linux pipes unidirectional.02:24
c0ffeehaha02:25
c0ffeeyou just ruined my night, man02:25
c0ffeei'll have nightmares of bidirectional pipes02:25
Aleksandyrhaha02:25
c0ffeeyou can't possible imagine the pain of that02:25
Aleksandyrin Inferno, it's trivial ;) other kernels I could see being problematic02:26
Aleksandyrif we had Inferno-style channels, this mplayer GUI would be finished by now02:26
c0ffeebut having send and receive on different channels is so much nicer02:26
Aleksandyrnot when you haven't written a C pipes app in...three years?02:27
Aleksandyrand in the intervening time have grown used to popen2,3,4.02:27
c0ffeewell02:28
c0ffeeyou can hack together such a functions in no time02:28
Aleksandyrdon't get me started on (FILE *) versus FD.02:28
c0ffeeopen the desires pipes02:28
c0ffeefork02:28
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c0ffeeclose std(in,out,err)02:28
c0ffeeexecle02:28
Aleksandyrnot in daemonspace, where the usual algorithms fail miserably FVR.02:28
c0ffeewhatever that means02:29
AleksandyrFor Various Reasons.02:29
c0ffeeand daemonspace?02:29
c0ffeei only know einstein space and hyper space02:29
c0ffeeanyway :)02:29
c0ffeei think i should hit the bed02:29
Aleksandyruserspace, daemonspace, kernelspace, and good night :D02:30
c0ffeelinux doesnt have daemonspace02:30
Aleksandyrerm, yes it does. Not as explicitly as userspace and kernelspace02:30
c0ffeeso how does daemonspace differ from userspace?02:30
Aleksandyrthe big one would be standard I/O/E are closed.02:31
Aleksandyrclosed-slash-mean-different-things.02:31
c0ffeemhm02:31
c0ffeesounds a bit academic to me02:31
Aleksandyrwriteup of the problem I hit: http://www.unixwiz.net/techtips/remap-pipe-fds.html02:31
AleksandyrI will grant you it's an odd problem.02:32
c0ffeehehe02:33
c0ffeeok02:33
c0ffeeso daemonspace is where you really have to think before you hack02:33
Aleksandyryes, as opposed to hacking, releasing, and -then- thinking. Maybe. :D02:34
c0ffeeit compiles! ship it02:34
c0ffeeg'night02:34
Aleksandyr'night!02:36
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pokute_Wow. I just had an *revelation*02:42
Jaffaoh?02:42
pokute_An new IM for touchscreened devices.02:42
pokute_Or rather dasher with pressure sensitivity for speed. :-D02:43
JaffaAh, neat idea.02:43
pokute_You could use it with left or right hand thumb when holding it.02:43
JaffaGo on then :)02:44
JaffaThere's nice docs on how to do an IM for Maemo 3 now02:44
pokute_Does maemo3 work for 770 too?02:45
Jaffanope02:45
pokute_Will it, after all, it's a bit different than IT2007?02:45
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JaffaMaemo 3 is the base for IT2007. Bit of Maemo 3 might be able to run on IT2006 (if we hack 'em)02:46
* Jaffa definitely beds now.02:46
Jaffag'nigt02:46
pokute_That was what I was thinking too.02:47
pokute_For example, maemo 3 may have api improvements that 770 could benefir of too.02:47
Piohas nokia given word on their intention to backport features from maemo 3 to the 770 releases?02:48
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pokute_I think API stuff is most likely, as anything that would mean new appliactions for 770 which would also benefit N80002:51
Pioyeah good point02:51
Piocant split their developer community02:51
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NickDeI met hulk hogan today at ces.. I'm special;03:29
NickDehe smashed my n800 on the floor03:29
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metajackthe maemo python docs say to download the python runtime from maemo.org, but i can't seem to find it. does anyone know where it is?03:37
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kakosIs there a way to figure out what method_call's a particular object has available for dbus?04:14
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_k-s_kakos_: if it object provides the introspection interface, yes05:51
_k-s_kakos_: check the manual05:51
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framerateIs maemo gui done using gtk or seperate usually?05:54
_k-s_framerate: yes, maemo apps uses gtk05:57
_k-s_framerate: but some apps don't, like games or canola, that are made using SDL05:57
framerateHm, reasonable to code an app from scratch in sdl?l06:00
_k-s_framerate: depends on what you want06:00
_k-s_framerate: what kind of app?06:00
framerateIve never coded gtk but i'm pretty good w/ sdl06:00
_k-s_framerate: so you know you don't have widgets and so with sdl, right?06:01
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_k-s_framerate: canola was easier to write in SDL, because it doesn't fit GTK UI06:01
_k-s_framerate: and doing in GDK is a pain06:01
framerateI was thinking of starting with a gui to fceu  or something else, to get my feet wet in maemo06:02
_k-s_framerate: you could also try Evas and EW (Enlightenment Widgets)...06:02
danielsplease god no06:02
framerateOo06:02
framerateNo?06:02
_k-s_daniels: no what?06:02
_k-s_daniels: sdl or what?06:02
danielsshipping evas and the e widgets with the device ...06:02
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_k-s_daniels: why not?06:03
_k-s_daniels: evas is not 16bpp optmized, that's the only problem I see06:03
_k-s_daniels: it's small, fast and easy to work with06:03
framerateIf sdl_ttf and sdl_image are supported i could port my w.i.p rpg engine too06:04
_k-s_daniels: at least evas06:04
_k-s_framerate: it is06:04
_k-s_http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem.avi06:04
_k-s_http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem-live.avi06:04
framerateswell :)06:04
_k-s_this rocks man... really rocks06:04
framerateIll have to checkout those libs too06:06
framerateAre you the canola dev?06:06
_k-s_framerate: one of the canola devs06:07
framerateIm eager to try it. Hows n800 progress coming?06:08
_k-s_framerate: it will be released when it's ready :-)06:09
_k-s_I hope it's soon06:09
framerateMe too ^^06:10
framerateThat and mapper are the two apps that made me actually buy the platform :)06:10
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kakos__k_s_: Any idea if osso_email implements the introspection interface?  Or, alternatively, where I can find the D-BUS API for it?06:14
framerateNight guys06:17
_k-s_framerate: good... we want to help them sell more devices :-D06:18
framerate:)06:18
_k-s_kakos_: i don't know... api is at dbus.freedesktop.org06:18
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kakos_Yeah.  I've been sifting through that without much luck, unfortunately06:20
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gpdnot sure how it happened by all my feeds are gone?06:23
gpdthe machine was in a drawer and upon taking it out - no feeds...06:23
gpd.osso_rss_feed_reader/feedList.opml - has xml outline only06:23
gpdhmm... just went to feed directory - and they are all there -- subscribed again -- but lost folders/categories - very weird06:25
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kakos_Does anyone by chance know how to get the email application to recieve mail from the command line?07:15
* gpd wonders if there is a reason why there is no option to keep the display bright always - when plugged in07:23
* gpd wonders if there is a wishlist on the wiki for this random crap07:24
_k-s_kakos_: receive mail?07:25
_k-s_gpd: you can emit false mouse clicks or call dbus method for that... just don't recall which one07:26
_k-s_gpd: maemo tutorial have that07:26
_k-s_gpd: you can then write a small app that listen for battery charging message, then call the method to keep display on07:26
gpd_k-s_: but do you think they did it for a reason?  eg. light burn out or something weird?07:26
_k-s_gpd: dunno07:27
_k-s_:-(07:27
_k-s_now to sleep... it's 2:30am here07:27
gpdk bye07:27
_k-s_I have to work on canola tommorow... autotools sux hard07:27
_k-s_to get right07:27
gpdi am just getting started playing again - only 9:30pm here07:27
_k-s_people often just copy & paste autoconf macros around, that sucks even more07:28
* _k-s_ like scons07:28
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metajackscons is indeed much nicer07:28
metajackbut still not quite mature enough for every project07:28
metajacki still have autoconf nightmares :(07:29
k-s[AWAY]metajack: ok, scons is not mature for every project...07:30
k-s[AWAY]metajack: but autotools are not mature for any project07:30
metajackhaha :)07:30
gpdhow do you get apt to show you *new* packages from the last update - ie packages not seen before -- in aptitude it is search '~N' or something odd - i suppose i could just dump packages before and after and grep07:31
k-s[AWAY]metajack: mixing that much of languages, one inside another, sucks hard07:31
metajacki'm not defending autoconf :)07:31
k-s[AWAY]at least scons is python, plain python07:31
metajackor at least that was not my intention07:31
k-s[AWAY]metajack: I know personally one of the original autoconf dev... even he has nightmares07:31
k-s[AWAY]gotta go07:32
metajackis ther ea javascript console for opera?  i have a pretty complicated js app that _almost_ works.  would be nice to see why it's failing07:37
metajack(it works on the wii opera fine)07:37
pigeonnormal desktop opera you mean?07:38
pigeoniirc it's in the "error console" window, it shows js errors as well as css errors.07:39
kakos__k-s_: Yeah.  I want to tell the email application to go get any new mail from the server from the command line.07:43
jtokashmetajack, the 770 opera's opera.ini when told to store the js error log on disk ignores you07:43
kakos_I think there's a dbus facility for it, but I can't figure it out, unfortunately.07:43
jtokashI haven't tried the 800's settings yet07:44
gpdjtokash: what new discoveries?07:45
gpdi liked your google reader page -- very nice07:45
jtokashnot much new going on.  Did you listen to thoughtfix's interview with nokia07:46
metajackjtokash: i'll have to try that07:46
gpdno - read the transcript - will have a listen07:47
jtokashanyone else having lots of crashes when using the audioplayer applet on the n800?07:47
jtokashdriving me nuts07:47
metajacki haven't used it much. i just got it yesterday :)07:47
metajacki spent several hours today getting the dev env set up07:47
gpdjtokash: what kind of media are you playing?07:48
jtokashshoutcast07:48
jtokashI think.07:48
jtokashsomafm whatever that uses07:48
keesjHi07:49
metajackwow.. somafm is old :)07:49
metajacki remember that from back in the day :)07:49
jtokashI just started listening to them.  Their groove salad is good07:51
metajacki recommend globalpopconspiracy.com07:52
metajackthey also have a vorbis stream07:52
gpdhave you found a way to add the streams to the player without ending up with just an ip address?07:52
metajacki believe that the 3 stations from virgin are also available in vorbis too (the three that nokia promotes on the tabby site)07:52
gpdsomething like streamtuner would be nice -- gives you all the stations right there07:53
gpdi suppose there must be a site that aggregates them07:53
metajackwell dir.xiph.org has an interface for xml stream listings for that directory07:53
metajackyou need regexp foo for the shoutcast directory07:54
metajacks/foo/fu/07:54
metajackand last i checked they still banned your ip if they caught you doing it07:54
gpd- here is another random idea - how about a nokia light httpd for local browsing of stuff --- with sql sync when back online07:56
keesjsql sync?07:58
gpdwell -- say you had a mediawiki/drupal install - you could 'sync' the mysql to the latest version when going back online07:59
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gpdnot really thought it through - just random noise in my head :%08:00
keesjI do like the rss kind of feeds to read slashdot.08:00
metajackmight be better off just copying a tiddlywiki back and forth.08:00
metajacki imagine opera has good enough js for that08:01
keesjI seem to be one of the few users happy with opera. js support is great IMHO08:02
pahartikkeesj: I like Opera of Maemo... it is most useful application that comes with it08:05
pahartikkeesj: though I have disabled javascript08:05
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keesjpahartik, why , if I may ask?08:05
pahartikkeesj: I prefer sites and documents to have predictable behaviour...08:07
pahartikkeesj: my default browser (on devices with full keyboard) is Lynx08:08
jtokashI wish youtube worked08:09
keesjI see , I will not play for elisa and ask how that makes you feel :)08:09
pahartikkeesj: um... what?08:10
keesjdoes anybody use http://www.getdemocracy.com/ on there pc?08:10
keesjpahartik, it is just no my choice.08:11
pahartikkeesj: that sounds like freedom... but I did not understand that reference to "elisa"08:13
keesjelisa was this Artificial intelligence program. Of course it did not care about what your problems where. but when it did not know what to answer it would say things like "how does that make you feel"  . perhaps if my spelling was better you would have understood . Here is a javascript :) version http://www-ai.ijs.si/eliza/eliza.html08:16
pahartikkeesj: oh, I see... :)08:17
keesjlol08:18
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keesjI think links or links2 supports mouse event so that might be a good alternative for you08:21
pahartikkeesj: Lynx supports navigation by pointer device... "w3m" does too...08:25
pahartikkeesj: but Opera of Maemo is well adapted for that environment08:27
keesjThe ability to scroll anywhere on the screen is what makes it usable for me. Some 770 applkication don't do that08:29
keesjI guess the Hildon framework doesn't08:29
pahartikkeesj: I configured arrow keys to scroll on Opera by default (left/right and page up/down)... that was improvement, as I do not always have to hold stylus to move across document08:32
keesjpahartik, what is this w3m thing , it displays images in my xterm http://box.mmapps.net/~keesj/w3m.png08:34
pahartikkeesj: two problems I have encountered with Opera of Maemo: I could not make it to switch between "Author mode" and "User mode" while running... and I did not find way to edit cookies (if I accidentally accepted unwanted cookie and wanted to get rid of it immediately)08:35
keesjpahartik, I don't use the key's much I must say , but by default oprea does the scrolling is I press the down key a bit longer08:35
keesjWhat is author v.s. user mode?08:36
pahartikkeesj: basically, it would switch between CSS suggested by author of document and one I created08:37
keesjok.08:38
pahartikkeesj: desktop Opera supports that... there is button in GUI as well as key assigned to that08:38
pahartikkeesj: I know that "w3m" is capable of displaying images, but I have never tried that feature... over here, Opera is also set to not load images by default08:42
jtokashodd that maemo mapper isn't on this list: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/OS2007_Tested_Applications08:43
keesjI guess I will be a hell if some programs are still in the mistral repository and others not.08:45
keesjspecially with dependencies08:45
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qgilmorning all08:54
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|tbb|"No, the N800 does *not* support multi touch" what the heck is multitouch?09:09
qgil|tbb|: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitouch09:10
qgilyou wpuld put two or more fingers in a screen and the system would follow both/all09:10
qgilapparently someone got confused by the fact that Nokia was shipping 2 stylus in the box  ;)09:11
roope:D09:11
roopemultitouch is a really nice idea. on the other idea, the iphone screen is so small that it's... well, it's more useful on a much larger touch screen.09:11
qgilthis is what I thought myself when I saw that iPhone was announcing this feature09:12
roopeI watched the keynote yesterday. It is nice for zooming / unzooming, but a bit limited still.09:12
qgilbut well, they might have a good idea behind, like for instance being able to type a Ctrl+[apple]09:13
roopeApple has _heavily_ patented the multitouch thingies on the iphone.09:14
roopethey also bought some ipr:s from other parties for it.09:14
tigertyeah, this was in spring, when the patents were in news09:14
tigertmorning btw09:15
tigertman, its snow in here09:16
tigertlooks like the winter started?09:16
tigertjust in time for quim09:16
tigert;)09:16
qgilgreat, tigert09:17
tigertits just a centimeter of snow though09:18
qgilstill 3 days to come...09:18
inzplenty of time for it to melt away09:20
tigertyeah09:21
* qgil is about to start Relocation Day 1: packing the whole house - wish me good luck :P09:23
tigert;)09:23
* tigert listens to the BBC hitchhikeers guide on the ipod09:23
tigerti think the finnish radio dramatization is at least as good though09:24
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tigertbut these koss earplug headphones are pretty cool09:25
inzpaacking the house reminds me of 2nd finnish BB09:25
tigertblocking sound nicely09:25
inztigert, good for walking, you can't hear the cars, let alone bicycles09:26
c0ffeemhm mhm09:27
tigertyeah :) good and bad09:27
c0ffeeso the developer program is 'rather soon'09:28
inzdoes anyone know the logic why the applications menu opens sometimes w/ descriptions and sometimes w/o09:29
inznever mind, just figured it out09:30
tigertyea, thumb09:33
inzthumb vs. nail =)09:35
tigertyeah09:39
keesjdid anybody play with sb2?09:39
tigertsb209:42
tigert?09:42
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keesjscratchbox09:43
tigertah right09:49
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c0ffeenice, a gps with 7cm precission09:54
c0ffeeprice: $150.00009:54
inzel cheapo09:54
c0ffeei think i need that09:54
c0ffeefor geocaching09:54
danielsin finland, that's a hell of a lot.  in australia, that's crap all.09:55
c0ffeewhy crap?09:55
c0ffeemind, it's not average 7cm, or in the best case 7cm, 7cm or better09:56
danielsone hundred and fifty thousand dollars, versus one hundred and fifty dollars09:56
c0ffeeafaik this thing here is sold by us military only09:56
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* gpd runs python on n800, sets up own scripts :)10:22
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gpdmaemochron doesn't work for me - 2k7 wiki lies10:31
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X-Fadegpd: It's a wiki :)10:32
* gpd creates account10:33
JaffaMorning, all10:33
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|tbb|anyone knows if it is possible to log just open networks with kismet?10:40
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jonekhi11:09
jonekkeesj: nice idea - the bounty programm :)11:09
Guardianmorning all11:11
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Guardiani want to port windows 95 to maemo11:11
Guardiancan i apply ? :)11:11
dwdGuardian: I once made a blog post about that, so I should.11:15
jonekkeesj: IIRC thoughtfix motivated someone through such a programm to do the kismet port11:19
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Jaffakeesj: yeah, nice idea.11:34
JaffaInteresting comment from jakub on maemo-dev: "[...] the lucky ones shall get notified rather soon."11:36
dwdJaffa: Of course, "rather soon" isn't what I'd call well-specified.11:36
* koen wonders how much of it2007 was written in armv6 asm11:36
koenmust be a lot if nokia keeps insisting the hardware and software were designed together11:37
jonekkoen: :-)11:37
koenI bet €10 it just means "we used lots of floating point and fear it it too slow for the 770"11:38
AD-N770good morning11:39
koengood morning mister Dent11:39
dwdkoen: To be fair, it might also mean "we were rushed and made no real attempt to put in the right conditionals", too. I'm not too bothered that OS2007 isn't available for the 770 now, I'm more concerned with the idea it never will be.11:40
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koendwd: I spent the last years working openembedded, so when people say "doesn't run on..." my bullshit alarms goes of11:42
Jaffadwd: true, it's more exact than what we knew already, unfortunately :-/11:47
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dwdkoen: It probably wouldn't take a huge amount of effort to make OS2007 work (to the levels we'd expect) on 770, but nevertheless it would be effort. I can entirely understand that with commercial deadlines, this wasn't met.12:07
koenkoen: I can understand it as well12:08
koenbut the "can't"s and "won't"s worry me12:08
dwdkoen: But - and a big but - I don't understand why this cannot be rectified.12:08
dwdkoen: Exactly.12:08
koenI'd like a statement like "we don't want to support it" or "the buildsystem people are incompetent arses"12:09
parthaha12:10
partthat's the right attitude12:11
dwdkoen: Not sure I'd like the latter statement. :-)12:11
JaffaGPS libraries on OS 2007 look good. Someone should quickly take the example and produce a photo-taking, geotagging app12:11
koendoes the ogg-container support metadata as well?12:12
* koen is thinking "geotagged movies"12:12
* koen nudges tigert 12:12
koenJaffa: http://oregonstate.edu/~earlyj/gpsphotolinker/ :)12:13
dwdkoen: But I wouldn't like the former, either - it implies that the N830's release would entirely deprecate the N800 - one of the key benefits of the platform would then be lost, I think.12:13
partdwd: what platform?12:13
koendwd: I'd love to be able to *receive* video calls on the 77012:14
koenanyway, the mailmain just dropped of book 3 and 4 of the Wheel of Time12:15
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* koen -> book12:15
dwdpart: Maemo. I expected, when getting my 770, that it was a long-term investment, that even when "new" devices came out, the Maemo platform would continue to advance and I'd see the bulk of those advances.12:17
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X-Fadedwd: Indeed, I see no reason why new API's should not be able to run on 770. Like the alarm framework, gps etc..12:24
X-FadeI can understand that multimedia related libs are a bit harder, but a lot of this stuff isn't..12:24
JaffaIn fact, we had a fairly strong committment given to the alarm framework on the 770.12:25
X-FadeAs some of it is already in sardine.. Like the alarm framework..12:25
X-Fade(And I know, because that was the reason for Sardine to be unusable for a few weeks :)12:26
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tigerthttp://jledger.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=dtvhacking&action=display&thread=116754660812:27
Jaffatigert: cool. What's "DTV" mean, the acronym they keep using?12:29
JaffaIt reminds me of http://www.sprow.co.uk/bbc/minib.htm12:29
tigertdunno12:30
Jaffafairy nuff :)12:31
tigertdirect-to-tv says wikipedia12:31
tigerthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV12:31
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koenJaffa: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToUseGPSFrameworkInOS2007 looks pretty sweet indeed12:34
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X-Fadekoen: I don't see a reason why this shouldn't work on 770, do you? (Apart from the api not being there on 2006)12:36
koenX-Fade: me neither12:37
koenX-Fade: libgpsmgr and libgpsbt are already installed on my ipaq :P12:37
X-FadeI wonder if we can make these api's installable from our own repository..12:37
koenhttp://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=libgpsbt0 http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=libgpsmgr012:38
X-FadeOr even garage..12:38
X-Fadebackports for 2006 ;)12:39
tigertveryt likely possible12:39
X-FadeI just want to know if Nokia isn't going to do the same thing. Or if there is a possibility to work together..12:39
florian_kcgood morning12:40
X-FadeIt is unfortunate that Nokia people can't talk about that as they don't talk about future plans :)12:40
Veggenall they have said is that OS2007 isn't going to be released for the 770, they haven't said they're not going to backport features.12:40
Veggenright?12:40
danielscorrect12:40
dwdVeggen: True, but Ari Jaaksi's blog posts suggested to me that the 770 was going to maint-mode.12:41
X-Fadeyeah, but they didn't say anything about new features. Fixing bugs is something different.12:41
JaffaI suppose we'll have to see how much goes into Maemo 2.2 and what's said alongside its release.12:45
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X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, I'm fairly optimistic about this.12:47
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lardmanAnyone know what it means when one of the /dev/dsptask/* entries can't be opened, but others can (namely demo_fb is busy but demo_console works fine)?13:30
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dballesterhi to all13:48
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Jaffahi dballester13:51
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VeggenJaffa/X-Fade: I just don't see the point in yelling at Nokia before we see what they do. We should voice our opinion, of course, but stop with the assumptions.14:03
X-FadeVeggen: Yep, that was the point I was trying to make. If it doesn't work out, we can always try something ourselves.14:04
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Veggen(and well. I never can resist the urge myself, so I've already ordered the N800 ;P)14:08
VeggenMy 770 is still in for service because of the WSOD.14:09
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dballesterto maemo developers: Could be possible in the future add this feature: The user can decide where is located the vertical scroll bars ( I'm righthanded and it's difficult to scroll up/down while my hand is over the screen ;)14:43
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X-Fadedballester: Do you mean lefthanded? :)14:47
dballesterXD14:48
dballestermay be, as you can suspect, english is not my first language :P14:49
X-FadeHehe, well there has been talk about flipping the screen for lefthanded people..14:50
X-FadeThat has been done before..14:51
X-Fadehttp://syslog.movial.fi/archives/7-xrandr-on-nokia-770.html14:52
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danielsX-Fade: yeah, it's easy to do on the n800, but the ui just doesn't support it14:53
X-FadeYou have to flip the arrow controls too..14:54
danielsX-Fade: yeah, plus there's just a lot of hardcoded positions14:54
X-Fadedaniels: Doesn't matter if you rotate 180 degrees?14:54
X-FadeX rotates that screen for you?14:55
danielsdunno14:55
X-FadeCheck the pictures on that link. No problems..14:56
X-FadeEven the status bar scales.. well almost ;)14:56
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JaffaFixing the hardware keys should be a relatively simple hack, shouldn't it?14:58
JaffaI was thinking of having a go at that multitouch-using-stylus-and-select-button-as-modifier idea, but can't really as I'm left-handed14:58
X-FadeJaffa: The touchscreen is multitouch?14:59
X-FadePressing 2 fingers on the screen pops up the fullscreen keyboard for me..14:59
danielsX-Fade: yes, but pressing _one_ finger pops up the fullscreen keyboard15:00
X-Fadedaniels: Doesn't do  that for me?15:00
X-FadeIt pops up the regular keyboard..15:01
danielsX-Fade: press harder?15:02
danielsworks just fine here15:02
danielssame behaviour as on the 77015:02
X-Fade1 finger -> normal keyboard, 2 fingers -> fullscreen keyboard.15:03
X-FadeThat is how my 770 behaves..15:03
mdamtX-Fade: Got a hard nail touches the screen?15:03
danielsi can assure you that's absolutely not multitouch.15:03
danielspress with the flat of your thumb or something, it'll pop up fkb then15:03
X-Fadedaniels: You can fake that by recording the coord of the first press and the second press.15:04
JaffaX-Fade: the suggestion was to simulate the first touch, e.g. tap-hold-press select-move15:05
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah that would be quite hard lefthanded..15:06
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pahartikwhat does "32wd_to" at "/proc/bootreason" stand for?15:27
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X-Fadepahartik: That is the watchdog..15:35
pahartikX-Fade: something went wrong with networking and GUI stopped responding... after few seconds, reboot15:40
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frameratepahartik: did you install mweather by chance?15:43
frameratepahartik: mweather ended up being the culprit causing my N800 to reboot->whitescreen repeatedly15:44
X-Fadepahartik: The watchdog resets the device when the system isn't able to give a sign of life in time..15:45
X-FadeIn cases of 100% cpu for example...15:45
pahartikframerate: before sudden hang/reboot: I removed Canola, rebooted, installed Avahi back, used Maemo for ~10 hours15:46
pahartikframerate: uptime before described changes was ~10 days15:48
frameratepahartik: not sure then :( (I'm rather new here)15:48
* sp3000 debugs his coffee15:49
sp3000darn fruit flies >:|15:50
pahartikframerate: could be related to Bluetooth PAN, as that caused unusual problems before (just rebooting)15:50
* pahartik proceeds on trying to write simple Maemo application15:53
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JaffaInteresting article from Ari Jaaksi about 770 plans now. Seems Nokia are going to work with the community to backport as much as possible.15:54
|tbb|what does this means15:58
|tbb|http://www.akaabel.ee/?SID=21e3317f57aa367f34837a45e4a3dded&n=kontakt15:58
|tbb|sorry wrong past15:58
|tbb|+e15:58
|tbb|Ari does make the point, too, that the 770 currently beats the pants off the n800 for in car navigation.15:58
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mdamtI tried running N800 software on 770. Slow like hell :-P15:59
mdamthttp://aksi.mdamt.net/node/17515:59
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framerate|tbb|: that's not from the new interview, is it?16:00
Jaffamdamt: Interesting.16:01
|tbb|http://blog.tokash.org/16:01
frameratebad news is I bought my N800 mainly for in car navigation :/16:03
|tbb|i allready got a navkit16:03
|tbb|for n770 i was thinking it runs on the n80016:03
framerateI have a bluetooth GPS, I just need to find N800 compatible software16:03
framerateNokia hasn't made that announcement yet, sadly16:04
c0ffeethe bt plugin from garage should support gps16:06
c0ffeedid you try that and mapper?16:06
framerategnuite hasn't finished mapper for N800 yet16:07
frameratebluetooth libraries have changed and he doesn't have an N80016:08
|tbb|bad news16:08
framerateuh oh16:08
c0ffeewell16:08
c0ffeea bit patience please :)16:08
framerateOh, I'm good c0ffee :) Regardless I'm gonna donate to him soon, either to support his N800 purchase or support a release (whichever happens first)16:09
nomisframerate: rest assured that there will be gps applications. I have an interest in that myself and I will have access to N800s in the future.16:09
nomisframerate: and I bet that there are more people like me  :)16:09
Veggen...me, for example :)16:10
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frameratenomis: I'm actually considering it myself, although I'm new to maemo, gps AND bluetooth development :(16:10
frameratebut all three are things on my list of things to learn :)16:10
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Veggen(although I haven't done much maemo development so far. I did test out and got the scratchbox development env running and managed to get some simple test guis made.16:11
nomisframerate: yeah, it is interesting.16:11
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koenthe maemo3 gps(bt) stuff looks cute16:13
* koen hopes maemo-mapper will start using that16:13
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sbaturzioAloha!16:15
frameratehow hard is BT coding in general, just say a command line utility that interacts with a BT device?16:15
framerateI would think it could go either way, either really intuitive or real complex16:15
qgilYet another [OT] question while I'm in the middle of a home relocation: does it make sense to move a ventilator to Finland?16:16
nomisframerate: writing a tool to get the gps data from a bluetooth device is not that hard. It is a bit tricky until you get used to all the interacting concepts.16:16
nomisframerate: I don't know if Maemo has some convenience layers for this.16:16
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Jaffanomis/framerate: fortunately it's made easier in Maemo 316:17
Jaffahttp://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowToUseGPSFrameworkInOS200716:17
frameratenomis: I'm unsure if maemo would be a suitable "first time" BT coding environment, or if I should start on OSX or gentoo or something to get used t o it16:17
jmspeexAnyone knows how I can get an N800 as part of the developers program (as author of Speex)?16:18
koenjmspeex: see topic16:18
inzframe, I'd guess maemo is pretty close to gentoo wrt bt16:18
nomisframerate: I'd avoid OSX. They probably have an awful lot of convenience layers in there.16:18
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jmspeexkoen: sorry16:19
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kenderhi16:20
mdamtqgil: What's home ventilator?16:20
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* Jaffa wonders if the discount codes will be sent out before the N800's a week old16:20
koenjmspeex: it *is* a bit confusing16:21
inzThe topic is so overly long and verbose it makes my head hurt16:21
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inzImo channel topic should be about 70 chars to be usable16:22
mdamtI think it's a good idea to advertise your self, rather than letting Nokia people digging the mailing lists/blogs to find good candidates...16:22
qgilmdamt: something like http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=ventilator&btnG=Search+Images16:22
partmdamt: although you might just present yourself as someone who can't read / understand instructions16:23
inzmdamt, For all we know, they might have already done the decisions16:23
mdamtqgil: It's useful in the summer.16:23
koenhttp://www.qoheleth.uklinux.net/blog/?p=13616:23
nomismdamt: does it blow away the mosquitos?  ;)16:23
partqgil: you can buy such devices from Finland as well16:23
kenderhttp://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/01/were-getting-some-feedback-and-weve-got.html16:24
qgilwell, but since nokia is paying the whole movea dn we are leaving the house empty... alright, we'll take it  :)16:25
framerateI'm looking for the modem scripts the nokia n800 uses for BT DUN via the terminal.  Any idea where these would be stored?16:27
mgedminframerate: if this were a debian system, I'd say /etc/ppp and /etc/chatscripts16:28
frameratek thank you, will check now16:28
mgedminframerate: nope, not there16:29
mdamtpart: Probably just putting "Will develop XXX for N800" in your signature when posting to mailing list :)16:29
mgedminframerate: somewhere in gconf would be my next guess (/var/lib/gconf/...), but I'm just guessing16:30
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framerateoh dang, I forgot I don't have nano or pico on the N800 hah16:33
Jaffaframerate: there should be vi16:33
osfameronthat's goin to be fun to use without external keyboard :-)16:34
partframerate: pico can't be distributed16:34
framerateyep found vi... too bad I don't know vi (just use nano and emacs >.>)16:34
JaffaYay, enthusiasm for mud :-)16:34
Jaffa(on maemo-dev)16:34
framerateI'm determined to figure out why you can't connect via cingular WAP server in the US on here :(16:35
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pahartikframerate: "WAP" as in special XML service that has been available on mobile telephone devices since about year 2000?16:41
jurop88hi all16:43
jurop88has anyone recently had some problems with maemo rss feedreader?16:44
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jurop88somebody blocked his own N800 on ITT reading - probably - last planet rss16:44
jurop88I had some problem, too16:44
jurop88somebody else suggested to file a bug16:45
matt_cframerate: I've been able to connect via cingular WAP (IIRC) on my 770, but I have an unlimited data plan16:45
frameratewell, to be clearer I want to dialup through my blackberry pearl from my N800 WITHOUT the 80 dollars plan16:45
jurop88anyone knows where osso_rss_feed_reader stores its data?16:45
framerateI can connect on my laptop via a modem script I found online, and BT DUN on macbook has a field for the script16:45
matt_cframerate: I've just got a $20 data plan, not the expensive one16:45
frameratehmm.. I have that as well16:46
frameratewap.cingular, WAP@CINGULARGPRS.COM CINGULAR1 (settings)16:46
matt_cthat sounds right, I'm trying to find the page that worked for me16:46
matt_cI haven't tried in awhile but that worked the last time I tried it16:47
framerateyeah I'm having really bad luck with it16:48
framerateit might be different since it's a blackberry, perhaps? maybe a different plan. But I'm able to get on from  the macbook pro16:48
frameraten800 gives "remote server error. Try again?" message16:49
matt_chmm, I wonder if the dial-up number is different on the blackberry16:49
frameratewell I can checn my TCP settings on the blackberry, and it's still wap.cingular etc16:50
matt_cyeah it looks like the number is still *99#16:50
framerateI also find *99***1# as another number mentioned online16:51
mgedminI think those are equivalent16:53
framerateboth give remote server error :(16:53
mgedminthat's the connection ID after those extra *s16:53
framerateahh16:53
mgedminI think it defaults to 116:53
mgedminand there are other AT commands to actually tell the phone what that connection is16:53
mgedmin(APN, etc.)16:53
matt_cframerate: I just checked my 770 and those are the settings I'm using16:54
matt_c(I'm assuming the CINGULAR1 but that sounds right)16:54
framerateare you adding any additional AT commands or anything?16:54
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matt_cframerate: I didn't go in to the advanced menu IIRC16:57
matt_c(this is with a nokia S60 tho)16:57
frameratehmm. I just noticed the number my laptop uses is actually "wap.cingular", NOT the *99.. number17:01
frameratebut the N800 doesn't allow alphanumeric in that field :/17:01
jpetersenflorian_kc: i've got a patch for libmimedir which fixes parsing of the google calendar files. I didn't found a suitable bugzilla for upstream libmimedir to add the patch. But maybe you like to apply the patch to your maemo-gpe mimedir package. It's available at http://jpetersen.org/maemo/libmimedir-0.4.0-duration-wkst.patch17:03
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mdamtframerate: I don't know whether this can help: http://www.tabletcorner.com/nokia770/guides/razr.html17:04
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pahartikframerate: "Access point name: wap.cingular" "Dial-up number: *99***1#"...?17:05
frameratehmm I restarted the phone again and it connected, but it appears I'm not online, or at least it drops me when I opened browser17:05
frameratewell yeah, but my laptop script apparently uses wap.cingular as the actual NUMBER too, which is odd17:06
frameratewhich is from here: http://www.fibble.org/archives/000508.html17:06
pahartikframerate: those on "Connection setup: Packet data" dialog of Maemo 2.1 (yes, I only have Nokia 770)17:06
framerateyeah, packet data17:07
florian_kcjpetersen: weeee cool - you rock!17:07
florian_kcjpetersen: you can try to send it to the maintainer, but sebastian is a little bit unresponsive sometimes.17:08
florian_kcjpetersen: i'll add this to the maemo and OE builds of course.17:08
pahartikframerate: I do not know what "configuration dialogs" on my laptop would say, I have only edited "/etc/ppp/peers/<provider>" and "/etc/chatscripts/<provider>"...17:08
framerateI'm gonna keep playing with it. Either this or a VPN success would make my day today :) (otherwise can't use my new toy at work!)17:09
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HGFBGrr. My N800 is waiting at home and I'm at work. What a disgusting state of affairs17:15
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mat|workit could be worse. at least you've got a N800 and not just a N770 like some of us :-)17:18
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klausadeis it possible to charge the battery via the usb cable?17:19
qgilhum, there is indeed a case - http://www.europe.nokia.com/accessorieslink?s=N800Case17:19
shackanmat|work, it could be yet worse, like not having either of them :P17:19
Jaffaklausade: yes, using a Nokia USB charger. I've got a Nokia phone USB charger with CA-44 adapter for the smaller tip.17:20
Jaffaqgil: looks already17:21
Jaffas/ready/right/17:21
HGFBI have a 3rd party usb mains charger that I use to charge my mp3 player. I wonder if that will work ok17:21
HGFBI think he means does it charge via the usb port17:21
qgilI haven't crossed comments/authors in the blogosphere but sometimes it seems that some people criticising the N800's lack of case then get so excited about the (caseless?) iPhone17:21
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HGFBThe 770 didn't did it17:21
klausadeJaffa: but what about the usb-cable that comes with the 770?17:22
zyxulI have an application that runs fine under the user account but when I load it with root the gui looks all messed up it defaults to the default GTK theme. Is there a way to make it look as if it was running as user?17:22
dwdzyxul: On the device?17:23
zyxulyeah17:23
zyxulwhen I do sudo gainroot17:23
qgilI liked the 770 case (thanks to it I named the toy "Taco" since it made me move the hands as you do In Mexico to prepare one) but I'm not missing it in the N800, partly because the screen&stylus brings a quite more solid feeling17:23
zyxuland execute it, it loads the default GTK theme not the hildon stuff17:23
zyxulif I run it as user it loads it properly17:23
dwdzyxul: I'm not sure that you can, very easily. The theming stuff is to do with some environment variables, I think. In scratchbox, you can set them up with run-standalone.sh17:24
mdamtzyxul: run-standalone.sh?17:24
dwdzyxul: I'm really not sure if that exists on the device, though, or if it does everything that's needed.17:24
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zyxulnop run-standalone didnt do it17:25
Jaffaklausade: I don't know. If the question is "can it be charged from a USB port?" the answer is "yes". If the question is, "can the 770/N800's USB port charge the device?", I don't know - I suspect not.17:26
zyxuloh now it worked17:26
zyxulthanks guys17:26
klausadeJaffa: thanks for the answer.17:26
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dballesteranybody knows if http://repository.maemo.org is down?17:38
Takresponds for me17:38
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dballesteri can't download from it, if i try to point my laptop web browser i only get a blank page with repository.maemo.org words17:40
Disconnectdballester: it never had a full page17:41
mdamtdballester: Try http://repository.maemo.org/pool17:41
dballesterthe application installer can't fetch from http://repository.maemo.org17:41
TakI just downloaded the fceu package17:42
dballesterDisconnect, at least i was hopping to get the directories17:42
Disconnect(me too, for the record, but nope)17:42
Taktry repository.maemo.org/extras17:42
dballesteri will try17:43
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Tak(in browser)17:43
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dballesterFYI the message is : Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/scirocco/non-free/binary-armel/Packages.gz17:44
dballester( for free section the same )17:44
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Takthat's because there's no dists/scirocco17:44
Taknor is there extras/dists/scirocco17:44
dballester?17:44
Taknvm17:44
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Takthere *is* dists/scirocco, but not extras/dists/scirocco17:45
Takmy mistake17:45
dballesterah ;)17:45
TakI'm able to download that file manually17:45
dballesterstrange :? you can see the message that i get in the app manager log :(17:47
dballesteri'm trying to install carola, but seems to be difficult ;)17:47
dballesterand yes, with my laptop webbrowser i can see the files :/17:48
Takcan you browse there with the device's browser?17:48
dballesteri'm trying it now17:49
dballesteraqugh...17:49
dballesterOperation temporary deactivated due to low memory ( free translation from spanish message )17:50
dballestertime to close apps XD17:50
dballestera lot of new installs, may be a reboot ( new applets downloaded... )17:51
dballesteri had opened the audio player, app-manager, mahjon and the maemo wiki web page...17:52
dballestertoo much? :?17:52
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keesjI know many users here use screen in combo with irssi I found this gentoo article about screen quite enlightening http://gentoo-wiki.com/TIP_Using_screen18:12
*** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | Plans for a 2007ish engineering release for the 770: http://tinyurl.com/yf2xhh"18:13
Takengineering release?18:13
qgilTak: click url  :)18:14
Takhm18:15
* lle2 waits for the obvious "but nokia doesn't provide proper telephone support for this so it's crap and they're evil" comments.18:15
*** qgil changes topic to "Maemo is the application development platform for the Nokia Internet Tablets | Good questions deserve better answers | http://maemo.org | irc logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | Developer Device Program - Don't call us, we'll call you | New image: http://maemo.org/downloads/nokia_N800 (Win users: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010) | 2007ish engineering release plans for the 770: http://tinyurl.com/yf2xhh"18:15
TakI'm not sure I could put that on my 77018:15
lle2how come?18:16
qgilTak: if this release is released and you have a USB cable... why not?18:18
lle2it's not kosher?18:18
c0ffeere18:19
qgilIf you are Nokia you need to be careful when you make a full release, I believe18:19
qgilGoogle would call it "beta" release  ;)18:19
tkoI can imagine making the developer release is going to be interesting even with all and any kinds of disclaimers we could figure out18:20
lle2making a full release would mean a 4-6 month cycle18:20
partjust dump herring on a 77018:20
Takbecause both myself and my fiancee need the 770 to be stable18:21
hubit is so beta that the canadian don't want to sell it18:22
hub:-)(18:22
lle2yeah, there's that. but then I don't really see why you would want to upgrade at all18:22
lle2if it works, that is18:22
Takwell, I would want to upgrade for a stable release targeted at the 77018:23
qgilTak: un/stability reports are in the works and they will be shared, according to Ari's post. You will be able to decide then in the stability offered by the new release suits your needs or no18:24
qgilTak: more or less as it happens in the GPL world full of testing / beta / unstable releases18:25
hublooks like it is impossible to buy a N800 or a 770 is this country18:26
hub....18:26
hub:-/18:26
Takeven gpl software has stable releases18:27
osfameronthe Florence "Nokia point" didn't know about the N800 at all :-(18:28
osfameronbut it's in the online shop for Italy18:28
qgilhub: sht happens - remember when I wanted that laptop available first and only in Canada  (and somewhere in Asia)?  :)18:28
hubqgil: nothing is available first here18:28
TakI guess what I'm saying is that I'm disappointed that it looks like a halfass bora backport effort instead of an effort to stabilize (whatever the latest developer release's fishname is)18:29
hubglobalization is clearly NOT for consumers18:29
qgilTak: I'm just starting to learn what does "stable" mean for Nokia, but basically many (technically) stable GPL software cannot be presented by Nokia as an official consumer release, just like that - because of the implications it has in terms of QA, customer support and such18:29
sbaturzioosfameron: a friend just bought it online, called the hot line for a question and they answered: "n800 what?" ;-)18:30
Takqgil: what about mistral and scirocco, then?18:30
hubsbaturzio: I used to work for a company where they put stuff in production, and the engineering new because someone called the tech support and informed the tech support that ended up telling the engineering18:31
qgilTak: mmm what?  :)18:31
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osfameronsbaturzio: heh18:34
Takdon't get me wrong, if the "engineering release" turns out to be as well-put-together as, say, the scirocco release, then I'll be fine with it18:36
partJaaksi is such a pushover18:36
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Takjust the description gives me the impression that the plan is to backport some of the bora software, hack it together with some of the herring (or whatever) stuff, and shove it out18:37
lle2part: yeah, I would have just told everyone to shut up and get on with it.18:37
Takwhich seems to me like a loss compared to just moving forward with the herring (or whatever) software18:37
lle2Tak: I understand this so that the community will be involved in the development and testing phase, so it's not going to be just a simply shoved out there18:39
dwdIt sounds to me like Nokia want to involve (and use) the community more. All sounds good, actually.18:40
Takwell, more community involvement at those stages is a good thing18:40
lle2very much unlike the regular releases which don't get any outside exposure before it's too late18:40
TakI guess it's just the phrasing that worries me18:40
Tak"N800 software on 770 hardware"18:41
Taketc18:41
hubwill the N830 have a phone ;-)18:41
dballesterhub, +118:42
tkohub, define 'phone' .. don't we already have soft phone ?-)18:42
dballesteror n8XX will not be a good competitor for the iphone18:42
dballestertko GSM18:42
dballestercellular, i think18:42
hubtko: something that works everywhere18:42
hubtko: which is not the case with wifi18:42
danielshub: bt + gprs18:43
lle2Tak: how would you like it phrased? "Carefully hand-picked and inspected source code files matured in oak barrels for many years before being bottled and compiled for the user. To be consumed slightly chilled, after 15-20 minutes of installation."?18:43
hubdaniels: 2 devices18:43
hubdaniels: make one too much18:43
Taklle2: how about "bringing 770 software forward to be feature-comparable with n800 software" ?18:43
hubnot counting the palm for the addressbook/calendar :-/18:43
danielslle2: you should be in marketing18:43
Takplease don't think I'm flaming, btw18:43
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lle2Tak: I'm not :)18:44
Takbtw, I keep backups of all my source code in an oak barrel18:44
hubTak: I keep same in a safe18:44
TakI keep hoping I'll take it out one day and it will have turned into something better18:44
Takor maybe bourbon18:44
hubwhich turn into a foundry in case of fire18:45
osfameronideally a scotch surely, rather than bourbon18:46
Takpick your favorite18:46
osfameronthough you have to toast the source code very carefully and malt it only in the finest quality port barrels18:46
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Takand don't call me shirley! :-P18:46
gpdBoxwave Cleartouch Screen Protector for 770 <- should be fine with N800 right?18:47
dwdWhat's the current recommendation for a upnp media server for Linux?18:48
gpdbrighthand.com says that is the best type, amazon reivewers say 'useless' :?18:49
arjI have seen a fullscreen keyboard for the n770 and was wondering where I can get it?18:49
gpdarj: press the screen when in keyboard mode18:49
gpdwith your fingers...18:49
gpdthe thumbpad should appear18:49
gpddwd: gmediaserver workd for me18:50
arjgpd: doesn't seem to work18:50
gpdtouch the area where the text is going18:50
gpdfinger - not stylus18:50
arjaha18:51
arjI need to not have the styles keyboard open18:51
arjnice18:51
arjthanks18:51
Takit should come up even if the stylus kb is visible18:52
Takat least IME18:52
gpdso - adhesive screen protector  -  or non-adhesive? (i have no experience)18:53
TakI would tend to be leery of anything adhesive18:53
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gpdTak: do you have one on your device? which company18:55
Takno, I'm not using one18:56
Takthe metal cover thing for the 770 is adequate for me18:56
gpdno scratches from the stylus then?18:56
Taknot so far18:56
gpdmy palm graffiti area is totally screwed18:56
TakI've only had it for ~6mo though, so I'm not sure if that's definitive18:57
dwdMy 770 lacks any scratches even though it's seen extensive Tux Paint action from both my children (2 & 5).18:59
tzzdwd: Canola devs recommend fuppes, but I've only used gmediaserver personally and it's OK.  On Windows, TVersity is nice, it supports Canola right away and the video is watchable if you have a processor fast enough to handle realtime transcoding.19:00
Takmore of an issue for me is that I have to keep cleaning the screen from thumbboard + dragon warrior ...19:00
tzzdwd: I assume you ask about upnp because of Canola :)19:00
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dwdtzz: Actually, I was thinking about using the Nokia Media Streamer app, since Canola looks a little heavy.19:01
Jaffafuppes is a pain to get running on Ubuntu: its build dependencies are rather high19:01
Takoh, and canola19:01
osfamerontux paint looks fun19:01
gpddwd - i tried gmediaserver with nokia media server the other night - it was working with 200G of media19:01
tzzI know the media streamer works fine with gmediaserver for music, don't know about fuppes or video with either of those two servers19:02
tzzthe problem I had was that long directories would get cut off at 30 entries or so19:02
jonekhi, if anybody wants to try phoneME advanced MR1 on the 770: get it here -> http://i30www.ira.uka.de/p2p/ambicomp/phoneME_Nokia770/19:02
gpdi think i'll get these shop.brando screen protectors -- just to be safe - but thanks for the reassurance on the screen :)19:03
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tzzjonek: what is phoneME?19:04
dwdgpd: So it does.19:04
Jaffajonek: what rendering peer?19:05
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Takphoneme is the gpl'd j2me19:05
tzzso it's a JVM that supports that profile?19:06
JaffaAnyone got a developer discount code yet, btw? (just checking ;-))19:06
Taknot I, said the chicken19:06
Jaffatzz: yes, it should allow you to run mobile phone Java applications.19:06
tzzcool, I have a bunch of J2ME games accumulated over the years19:07
c0ffeewhy does bora not include gazpacho?19:07
qgilJaffa: I believe the topic of #maemo will be adequatedly edited few minutes after the first invitation is sent  :)19:08
Jaffajonek: ah, none yet :)19:08
Takin the scratchbox kit, or on the device?19:08
Jaffaqgil: ...and when'll that be? (see if you fall into my cunning trap ;-))19:08
Tak(qgil rolls 22 against trap difficulty 9)19:09
tkoJaffa, few minutes before the topic is edited19:09
tko?19:09
JaffaAnnoyingly, a colleague's order for his N800 has been cancelled due to his credit card failing authorisation. Which it has never done before but sounds *exactly* like the problems Nokia were having fulfilling 770 orders a year ago: see: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=688 and http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=627 for example19:09
Jaffatko: assuming Nokia's internet access isn't intercepted *at that exact moment* by an alien invasion. These things concern me...19:10
jonekTak: on the device19:10
qgilJaffa: I don't know19:10
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tzzmy order was put on hold for credit card auth as well, took 2 days to get it straightened out on Nokia's side19:11
tzzI still did it through Nokia, no sales tax and free shipping is a good deal19:12
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osfameronI wonder who else might stock them in Italy19:15
* osfameron remembers that he has family in Finland19:15
osfameronduh19:15
keesjdo people here have idea's about the bounty thing. whould it help if it was not money but "nokia points"(As people still would need to invest money in a device)19:16
Takkeesj: actually I'm composing an email about that as we speak19:17
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keesjWould there be people willing to to "less fun stuff" for points (like a good tutorial/documentation)19:17
danielsosfameron: mightn't help; when i was at the local computer shop a day or two ago (biggest in hki and right next to the nokia research centre -- draw your own conclusions), they still had the 770 on display, and no n800s in sight19:18
osfamerondaniels: oh, fair enough19:18
osfameronand the nokia shop price is the same19:18
keesjdaniels, perhaps it's like the iphone , it's release but not there yet :)19:18
lle2keesj: frequent flyer miles on the virgin galactic?19:19
tkokeesj, bounties? (haven't had the time to catch up with mailing lists in the last few days)19:20
keesjlle2, sorry , but I don't know what that is19:20
gpdif you have highlighted text - how do you bring up the keyboard without losing the highlight?19:21
Takhit the middle button on the d-pad?19:21
lle2keesj: the Virgin company doing sub-orbital flights19:21
gpdTak: that brings up the thumbboard19:22
keesjlle2, Ok, not I understand19:22
tkogpd, that's configurable (Control Panel etc.)19:22
gpdok - very good19:22
tkogpd, if you just want to copy, there's also Edit menu in application menus19:22
c0ffeedoesn't some airline own a part of a spaceship company19:23
lle2keesj: yes, Virgin19:23
gpd... but it also loses the highlighting :(19:23
lle2eh, c0ffee19:23
c0ffeeand you can convert 1million frequent flyer's miles into a free space flight19:23
* qgil goes to the hotel since his whole house is in boxes right now 19:23
qgilbye!19:23
keesjtko, http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-January/006968.html19:23
c0ffeeafaik one person did that already19:23
c0ffeehowever, he's still waiting for the flight to becme available19:23
lle2but seriously, I think that might not be a bad thing, the price for the ticket is not too much19:23
gpdi just want to clear all the highlighted text and start again (- eg. ctrl u)19:23
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lle2only around $100k or so?19:24
c0ffeeyeah, there are stranger ways to spend your money19:24
Takcan't you just bring up the kb and then highlight the text?19:24
c0ffeelike buying a n800 for 400 e :)19:24
lle2heh, yeah19:24
lle2I think I'll suggest that as some sort of prize for the Most Valuable Community Member or some such, based on some measurable criteria19:26
Takeww19:26
Takmay as well have a Community Member of the Month program19:26
lle2I think sb2 usage is going to rank really high on the list19:26
shackansb2?19:27
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lle2I hope the space flights are safe, would hate to lose the entire community in couple of years by shooting them to space19:27
lle2shackan: scratchbox219:27
c0ffeelle2, do you know why some howtos for bora are in the svn but not online on maemo.org?19:28
lle2c0ffee: no idea19:28
keesjand a hall of shame for the worst community members19:29
c0ffeejust grep for device application mails :)19:29
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Jaffakeesj: interesting suggestion just now about it being "blind"19:30
keesjthe problem with developer member of the month is that it is not self regulating19:30
Takheh, reminds me of today's xkcd19:30
TakJaffa: thanks :-)19:30
keesjJaffa, yes I like it19:30
lle2giving money is a bit problematic imho19:31
lle2stinks too much as working for nokia for almost nothing19:32
JaffaTak: ah, I was trying to work out if there was a thing there19:32
* Jaffa homes19:32
Takeh?19:32
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Rotundis there a way to NOT have the screen dim on a 770?19:33
TakI was under the impression that you could configure that in the control panel19:33
RotundI can only seem to set it as high as 2 minutes19:33
Takah19:34
RotundI'd like it to stay on indefinitely19:34
TakI've been thinking about making an applet for controlling the screen dimming a little more dynamically19:34
danielsRotund: unfortunately, no.  gaping design flaw.19:34
RotundI want to use maemo mapper, but I don't want it to go to sleep19:34
Taknow that my fiancee's back in school, I'll have more hack time :-)19:34
tkoRotund, there's gconf key for the timeout, somewhere under /system/osso/dsme/display or so, you can set it to 0 to disable it19:35
Rotundtak, haha19:35
TakI thought maemo mapper stopped it from being dimmed?19:35
Rotundit didn't for me.  There's an option  for it, but it didn't seem to work19:35
tkooh, there's also the function one can call periodically19:35
Rotundtko, is there a gconf-editor like program for the 770?19:36
tkoRotund, I don't think anyone has compiled gconf-editor. there's gconftool though19:36
danielstko: hm, last i tried that it just set the dimming timeout really high19:36
danielstko: (left videos running overnight to test stability ... not only did the screen blank, but the media server crashed.  sigh.)19:36
Rotundmaybe the "only in fullscreen" in maemo mapper is broken19:37
arjdoes anyone know if the software for the nokia GPS thing runs on linux?19:38
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dballesterwhoooo http://www.nokia.com/A4136028#19:39
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Rotunddballester, what is the woo hoo about?19:40
shackantak, I agree with your email, it would be nice to have a centralized todo list of things which people want for their tablet software19:40
dballesterthe future nokia phones19:40
Rotundahh.19:41
keesjis it gmail or the mailing list that does't reply to the right address?19:44
TakI always do "reply all" with gmail19:45
Tak(on lists)19:45
gpdshackan: we should setup a 'wishlist' on the maemowiki -- i mentioned that the other day19:45
shackanyup19:46
tkoI think there's at least a couple of 'improvement ideas' pages in the wiki currently19:46
Guardianwould it be possible to create a translucent windows (50% alpha transparency) on top of the other windows (even the task navigator)19:46
tkopossible yes, fast no :)19:47
gpdhttp://maemo.org/maemowiki/ImprovementIdeas19:47
Guardianwould require taking screen shots ?19:47
tkoor use composite manager19:47
Guardianis it available on the device ?19:47
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tkothere's definitely no composite manager, I'm not sure whether we have composite extension enabled19:48
tkodaniels?19:48
danielstko: ei19:48
danielstapani's working on it, so it will be enabled at some future stage, but isn't on the n80019:48
tkoyeah, I know that part, I just always keep forgetting how we deal shipping bits we don't use ourselves :)19:49
danielsyeah, the x server for it2006 is still far, far more lle than me ;)19:50
lle2but I'm now on my second iteration, so it isn't me either ;)19:51
keesjdaniels, but the cpu /mem/screen is fast enough to do it19:51
lle2keesj: compositing? no19:51
danielslle2: the n800 can do shadows, but probably not translucent windows19:51
danielstapani has a great shadow implementation, it looks well nice19:52
lle2daniels: yeah, he showed me19:52
danielslle2: scratchbox2, lle2 ... what's next?19:52
tkoX2 ? :)19:52
danielstko: you're about 23 years too late19:52
tkowho says you can't reuse numbers? :)19:53
lle2X112?19:53
Takis there much point in compositing and shadows when you don't have a full window manager?19:53
lle2Tak: matchbox doesn't count as a wm?19:54
Takwell19:54
Takdo you have the ability to resize windows, drag them around, etc?19:54
danielslle2: x11r2 was done in the year i was born, i believe19:54
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lle2Tak: those are design decisions19:54
danielslle2: otoh, x11r7.2 is coming today, if ajax gets off his arse and finishes the doc stuff :)19:54
tkoI have a funny feeling that the hardware just might have an option to do translucent windows efficiently, but no one knows how to tweak the right bit19:54
TakI mean currently19:54
danielstko: i wish19:54
lle2Tak: yes, currently. I think drop shadows are very useful for menus and dialogs19:55
* Tak shrugs19:55
Takok19:55
danielstko: lle worked with some basic acceleration (solid fill and blit is about all we have) back in the 770 days, but it was quicker to just do it all in sw19:55
danielstko: we'd need to do acceleration with a proper 3d engine to do that19:55
Guardiantko: would have been cool for a full screen overlay thumb keyboard though :)19:55
tkoyeah, I remember the blits :-]19:55
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tkoGuardian, maybe, maybe.. :)19:56
mgedminkeith packard implemented a compositing window system for embedded devices that had less CPU power than the 77019:57
mgedminhttp://keithp.com/~keithp/talks/twin-ols2005/ IIRC19:57
keesjlle2, it really is possible I do it in xmoto19:57
keesjperhaps not 60fps :)19:58
danielsmgedmin: yeah, twin isn't really that interesting19:59
danielsmgedmin: for one, it barely works right now, and for two, it doesn't have all the nuances and capabilities that you need with a relatively sophisticated ui19:59
danielsmgedmin: it's not a composite, render, or xft-like revolution that we should all follow, it's just keithp getting utterly bored of having worked on the same thing for 21 years20:00
dballestersee you20:00
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mgedminyeah, and dropping X would also require someone to rewrite all the apps20:00
danielsmgedmin: no matter how small your window system is, attempting to do Overs of 800x480 windows won't fly on our device20:00
lle2keesj: it's possible but there are other things to consider on 770. Memory use was number 1.20:00
keesjcpu , battery :)20:00
mgedminhm, I forgot the resolution keithp tested twin on20:00
danielsmgedmin: about 100x10020:01
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mgedmina bit smaller than 800x480 :)20:01
danielsmgedmin: its initial target was basically a watch (a wrist-mounted device)20:01
RotundAnyone look at the potential of evas on the 770?20:01
danielsmgedmin: just a tad, yes20:01
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RotundIt was designed for speed and low memory usage20:01
danielsRotund: same thing.  compositing 800x480 doesn't fly.20:01
lle2keesj: we barely had enough RAM to run the set of software we wanted, configuring X to use an extra 2-3 megabytes was just not going to happen20:01
danielsRotund: yes, but i'm kind of wary of raster-code20:01
Rotunddaniels, but esd is used on the 77020:02
danielsRotund: he also has a habit of writing benchmarks to show up the absolute worst case of everything else, and the absolute best case of whatever he's written.  useful for pointing out bugs, but not even _vaguely_ representative.20:02
keesjlle2, I understand , I was already amazed that there was X20:02
danielsRotund: yes, and that's a tragedy we're still coming to grips with20:02
Rotundpolypaudio?20:02
Aleksandyrdaniels: I've always wondered why esd was on the device ;)20:02
danielsRotund: or just alsa with dmix20:02
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Rotunddaniels, I can't seem to get dmix to love me on my lappy20:03
Takooo, that's a good point, translucency would be great for the thumbboard20:03
TakI retract my previous comment20:03
lle2keesj: ended up trying to optimize the video playback in thoroughly braindead way, making the dsp render straight to fb to avoid having a separate few hundred kilobyte buffer20:04
keesjTak, But I would just be as happy with a real keyboard :)20:04
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TakI dunno, I like the thumbboard20:04
gpdanyone got gpe calendar to subscribe to google calendar private address? - it can't tell if it is waiting to download or not working20:04
AleksandyrI've yet to find a real use for the thumbboard: biased because my fingers just don't work with it20:04
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RotundMake a bluetooth keyboard that slides on like the 770 case and then unfolds20:05
Rotundthat's be cool20:05
keesjlle2, it is very interesting to to know what was tried. but I am nowhere near a X or kernel hacker20:05
danielslle2: you should see the video code now ...20:05
lle2daniels: how's it done?20:06
danielslle2: wellll ...20:06
AleksandyrRotund: someone proposed that before, and even posted mockups. Rather nifty concept, I agree20:06
lle2a-ha! ;)20:06
arjI would also like to know if anyone has found a good solution for using google calendar. Running firefox is not that nice20:06
danielslle2: the simplest case is packed, which is colourspace-converted and scaled in the display controller, then moved over to hailstorm20:06
danielslle2: if you need to downscale, then we just remove every n'th line in software, since dispc hangs if you try20:07
danielslle2: but if it's a planar video and unobscured, we convert into a custom format, dump that into the framebuffer, then use hailstorm to do the conversion and scaling.  this involves watching for clip notifications and migrating back and forth between dispc and hailstorm silently, blocking updates as you go so you don't issue one with an incorrect colourspace. :)20:07
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metajackarj: google calendar works great for me in opera on n80020:08
lle2daniels: that is just smooth :)20:08
danielslle2: (since rfbi between dispc and hailstorm is the major bottleneck.)20:08
danielslle2: yeah, it's pretty classy.  works surprisingly well, though.20:08
danielslle2: doing hailstorm also means you don't need to expand planar -> packed, which is nice as well.20:08
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lle2oh crap I completely forgot I need to go to a movie... x)20:09
Takhopefully she waited for you ;-)20:09
lle2------->20:09
danielsi did that the other night.20:09
gpdmetajack: can you add events ?  i couldn't click the 'submit' button20:09
arjmetajack: ok thanks. It doesn't work well on the n770 using opera20:09
danielswas meant to leave at about 7pm; at 11pm, after hours of arsing about with the bootmem allocator, i remembered ...20:10
metajackgpd: i didn't try that. give me a sec to test20:10
gpdgpe calendar now says 0 minutes ago in the calendar area - so obviously just not grabbing proberly - i should try the public one20:11
arjI installed Dates but it doesn't work all that well20:11
Takwe're using dates20:13
Takbut our calendaring needs are not very strenuous20:13
gpddoes dates sync with http://foo/bar.ics  ?20:13
jpetersengpd: i've got a patch for libmimedir which enables you to subscribe google calendar in gpe20:14
Takit does import and export ICS - I've never tried to sync a web source20:14
arjTak: how do you import a calender on the device? The menues are useless ;-)20:14
gpdok - gpe calendar is now now 'subscribed' to google public us holidays calendar :)20:15
gpdjpetersen: is that for the maemo3 version?20:15
gpd... except that it now loads... and promplty crashes20:15
Taksorry, I don't recall, and I don't have it in front of me20:15
jpetersengpd: no i use it on the 77020:15
gpdjpetersen: will you submit to gpd devs -- or are you a dev!? or should I grab from you?20:16
tzzis there a way to replace the default wm?  I think Ion3 may work well on the 77020:16
tzzdoesn't have to be permanent20:17
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jpetersengpd: i think it will be included in the next released gpe libmimedir package20:18
arjjpetersen: do you have a package handy one can download and use?20:18
jpetersenarj: there should be one for maemo 2.0, mom20:19
metajackgpd: i created an event fine. there seems to be a bug where if you are still in a text field and try to scrolldown it will bring up the keyboard20:19
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metajackgetting out of the text field let me scroll down fine though20:19
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jpetersenarj: http://jpetersen.org/maemo/libmimedir0_0.4.0cvs20061111-1_armel.deb20:20
jpeterseni don't know if this package will also work in maemo 3.020:21
arjthanks!20:21
jpetersengpd: maybe you like to try this package, too20:22
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gpdjpetersen: good stuff.20:23
gpdmetajack: nice to know -- but offline woudl be good with gpe20:23
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jpeterseni think publishing  events to the google calendar from gpe-calendar doesn't work yet20:25
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gpdok -- i was just thinking of readonly - publishing is rare i think20:25
metajackgpd: my phone is a treo650 which syncs to google cal pretty well, so offline is covered for me on a diff device20:25
gpdok - given up on subscribe - crashes on start.20:26
gpdattempting import -- gives error:  invalid value in attribute RRULE20:26
gpdjpetersen: what does your fix fix?20:27
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jpetersengpd: a problem in the DURATION and RRULE parsing20:27
gpdahah!20:28
jpetersengpd: libmimedir without my patch doesn't support the WKST attribute which is used in google calendar20:29
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gpdjpetersen: i am surprised they didn't add your patch in the maemo3 gpe release -- is any bug report needed?20:30
jpetersengpd: i provided florian, one of the gpe developers, the patch just today ...20:31
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jpetersenso they couldn't include it yet20:32
Disconnectslackers!20:32
Disconnectthey can't do a release every 20 mins?  ;)20:32
gpdbeautiful - :)20:33
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HGFBI just downloaded the N800 updater. I already had the N770 updater installed and it replaced that one. The odd thing though is that when I ran it it didn't spend 5 mins downloading the latest big update. It just said it was uptodate and let me carry on to the flashing. Is that right?20:37
HGFBOh. Ignore me. Just being dumb20:37
* HGFB shut up20:37
HGFBJust waiting for it to charge now :)20:37
jtokashIs anyone interested in helping create a list of blogs and news sites that track the 770 and n800?  If so, please comment here: http://blog.tokash.org/2007/01/11/nokia-internet-tablet-blogs/20:40
HGFBThat would be a very handy list20:41
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koenjtokash: like planet.maemo.org?20:48
arjgpd: how do you add google calendar to GPE? Do you download it and import?20:51
arjaha found it20:56
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jpetersenarj: Tools->Calendars, New Calendar with Type:Subscribe20:57
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jpetersenand enter the ICAL private address into the URI entry20:59
arjargh it's so long ;-)20:59
arjwuw21:04
inzcan't you copy/paste?21:04
arjit's working21:04
arjthanks jpetersen21:04
jpetersenarj: fine :)21:04
gpdarj: private or public?21:05
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arjprivate21:06
gpdhmm -- i installed the new deb and added a private google cal url - but nothing so far21:06
gpdbut not crashing and no errors21:06
gpddid your data appear right away?21:07
arjdid you sync?21:07
arjafter a sync it did21:07
gpdno - where is taht?21:07
arjthe update icon in the calendar overview21:07
gpdarj: did you put in username and password?21:08
arjno21:09
gpdhmm -- still not getting it -- let me check the url21:09
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gpdseems to work in opera - trying the downloaded ics21:14
gpdnew error: syntax error (missing attrribute name/group)!21:14
jpetersenhm21:15
dwdjpetersen: Does GPE do CalDAV, or just static .ics files?21:18
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roopehttp://www.tuaw.com/2007/01/10/apple-vps-confirm-no-3rd-party-iphone-apps/21:20
jpetersendwd: i tried only static ics-files yet21:20
HGFBI just checked my new N800. It already has the latest update. Very handy that21:20
HGFBNice and fast. Very glad I bought it21:20
gpddwd: gpe can subscribe to a dav feed21:20
dwdjpetersen: Oh, sorry - since you were answering questions I thought you were involved somehow. :-)21:21
dwdgpd: Ah, interesting.21:21
gpdHGFB: welcome to the N800 club :D21:21
jpetersendwd: i did some UI-hildon porting and fixed some bugs21:22
HGFBI love it. Someone has bought my 770 too :)21:22
gpddwd: agreed -- when it works it will be a killer app for me as i just migrated all my calendars from iCal to google21:22
Takis the n800 club as much fun as the mile-high club?21:23
gpdi need to find a way to do dav vcard syncing or similar21:23
gpdTak: Yeah baby!21:23
* Tak starts saving up his $400 in that case21:23
dwdgpd: I really ought to do some addressbook synch stuff.21:23
dwdgpd: Mind you, I'd do it via ACAP, which might well not be what you want. Then again, it's unlikely that vCard is, either, really.21:24
gpdnever heard of acap -- all i know is that vcard is what i got when i extracted myself from AddressBook (OSX)21:25
gpdit seems quite standard and is better than ldif21:25
dwdTak: While Nokia don't officially suggest that more sex is the direct result of buying an N800, it's pretty likely they wouldn't confirm it if asked.21:25
gpddwd: let's not go there -- i am in deep trouble at the moment with my misses after essentially divorcing her for in the last 5 days21:26
dwdTak: And to be fair, back when I was single, I never found "Hey, this runs Linux device. Look, xterm and everything" was a particularly fine chat-up line. But maybe I went to the wrong pubs.21:26
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dwdgpd: ACAP is neither well known nor well deployed. It just happens to be a PS, and I think it works exceedingly well. As for vCard, there's two different varieties and they're not compatible, plus it's designed for interchange not synch.21:28
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gpdsince it is a text file it wouldn't be that hard to 'sync' ???21:29
jpetersengpd: your error message suggest another bug in libmimedir21:29
dwdgpd: It's not a text file. :-)21:29
framerateDoes Kismet have any major flaws on the 770/800? I just got it running today, was curious how it works for you guys?21:29
gpdthe most annoying is Thunderbird -- which to this day (2.0b) doesn't support anything except ldiff or csv21:29
gpddwd: vcard ?21:30
dwdgpd: Or more accurately, you cannot treat it as one for the purposes of synchronizing.21:30
dwdgpd: You sure there's no extension? vCard is pretty common. Or at least, 2.1 is. 3.0 is less common, but out there.21:30
dragornframerate: No errors which have been reported to me.21:31
gpddwd: there is an extension - morecolsxpi or something - i have tried it and it is ok21:31
framerateSo all the networks it reports, even the "no id" ones are valid, in your discoveries?21:31
frameratedragorn: also, I heard you might want someone to write a UI for it, anyone ever take you up on that?21:32
dragornframerate: If you're using a kismet version w/ the n770 support there shouldn't be many/any spurious networks since it does FCS validation21:32
dragornframerate: If you're using the 2006-04-R1 stable release you'll get tons of crap21:32
dragornframerate: Next full release coming out soon.  SVN has proper 770 support.21:32
frameratedragorn: using it on the 800 actually >.>21:32
dragornsame difference21:33
frameratedragorn: I noticed it not releasing control of my wifi after I quit, is there another way to quit other than 'Q' to prevent this?21:34
dragornthe wireless drivers don't filter invalid frames, but they do put proper checksums on them.  Had to add FCS validation for each frame to drop the junk frames21:34
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dragornit ought to drop it back to managed mode.  After that I don't know what the 770 environment does.  I've found the drivers to be terribly easy to confuse21:35
dragorni've even gotten them into a state where they lose wireless extensions entirely21:35
framerateIt seems I need to reboot to get back into it, but I've only used it twice so far21:35
dragorntry going into "disable wireless" mode21:36
dragornthen enable wireless again21:36
framerategood call.21:36
framerateso you never had any takers on a hildonized UI for it? or are you working on that?21:36
dragornnope, no-one has contacted me about it21:36
dragornand i haven't had time yet21:36
dragornit's on the list21:36
framerateoffline mode -> normal mode still doesn't get control back, it seems21:37
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Aleksandyrcall me crazy, but I rather prefer the ncurses UI over a number of the hildon UI's (for other apps) I've seen.21:38
framerateAleksandyr: I'd agree with that, on a majority of the cases.21:39
dragorni can admit the advantage of a full ui on tablets21:39
framerateBut it is definitely case by case basis21:39
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Aleksandyrthe only kismet command I use regularly is quit, so I might not be a good example.21:41
Pioeverything i've done in it works21:43
Piolocking channels, sorting, viewing the network details, and even running aircrack against the dump files21:43
Takhmm21:43
Takhow long does it take aircrack on the 770?21:43
Piohavent actually cracked anything21:44
Pioi just wanted to see if it worked21:44
Pioim sure it'd take quite a bit longer than my p4 does :)21:44
myrenanyone got a jawbone?21:44
myrenjawbone + n800 looks like ap retty righteous combo21:44
Takmyren: I had one, but I threw it away just after I met the boy21:44
myreni sense a joke flying someplace over my head21:45
Aleksandyras in, the jawbone bluetooth headset?21:45
shackanmyren, duck, it's a sharp joke!21:45
TakPio: yeah, the time looked like near-infinite when I tried it, but I may have been using it in a suboptimal manner21:45
myrenAleksandyr: yes21:46
Taks/sharp/lame/21:46
myrenTak: :-]21:46
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Piowell if you get enough IVs it shouldnt take long at all21:47
Pioive cracked keys on my p4 in like <30 seconds when i have enough IVs21:47
myrenIV?21:48
Takprobably I didn't collect enough21:48
Pioinitialization vectors21:48
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hubyou get more IVs in 128 bits than 64 bits21:50
hubso it is even easier in WEP 12821:50
HGFBWhat bitrate do you guys recommend for encoding video for the N800?21:50
frameratethat's one thing I hoped to get around to with this 770 is learning some more about WEP cracking and such21:50
Aleksandyrhub: mmmm, irony.21:50
hubAleksandyr: yep21:50
Piohub, but you need more IVs to crack 128 bit as well21:50
hubPio: but you get even more IVs21:51
Piobut you need more too :)21:51
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Pioim just saying 128 isnt necessarily easier21:51
hubPio: the ratio is higher in 128b21:51
Piohuh, never heard that21:51
Piogood to know21:51
Pioi always just assumed it was harder21:52
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DisconnectPio: it must be harder, its a bigger number ;)21:53
* Disconnect would have guessed that too tho21:53
hubyou get more clues to guess a harder secret :-)21:54
* hub is looking for the proper source online21:55
AleksandyrIIRC it's about 4:1 IVs from 128 to 64. Not sure what the IV broadcast rate is.21:55
Pioonly wep i ever cracked was 6421:55
Aleksandyrwhy would 128 broadcast IVs more frequently?21:56
Pioi think i had about 250k IVs from an arp replay i was doing when it cracked21:56
myrenIV's are generated through packet injection no?21:57
Pioor just normal network traffic21:57
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Piobut if the target network is largely idle then ideally you manage to inject packets into it to generate more IVs among the associated clients21:58
Aleksandyrexcept that doing so tends to require authenticated access to the network21:58
Pioyeah its a trick21:58
Aleksandyrsolution is a deauth storm, again IIRC.21:58
Pioaircrack comes with tools to convince the AP you are associated, decrypt arp packets, and replay them21:59
Aleksandyrwhich forces clients to reconnect, generating traffic.21:59
Pioyeah i havent done that one21:59
Pioi know theres several different working scenarios21:59
Aleksandyrneither have I: I just happen to know a large number of people who do, and there are some things I can't avoid learning ;)21:59
myrenits been a long long time since i've looked at abusing wifi22:00
Pioyeah i did the fake association, decrypted an arp, and replay method22:00
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myrenwicrawl was looking kind of intersting22:00
Pioit took a long time to figure out, especially without internet access :) i just had the aircrack docs to go from22:00
Pioit was at my internet-less friend's house22:00
myrenits a plugin based wifi resource allocator22:00
Pionow every time i go over there im set :)22:00
Pio                         KEY FOUND! [ 76:89:00:85:64 ]22:00
Pio:)22:00
Pio                 [00:00:34] Tested 1191 keys (got 222867 IVs)22:01
Aleksandyrmyren: wicrawl was really nifty when I had four cards running. Other than that, meh22:01
hubit has more to do about the number of weak IVs22:01
huband in 128bits you seems to get more22:01
Pioso you get the same amount but they are weaker?22:01
Piobecause i know, from aircrack docs, that you need way more IVs for 12822:01
Piolike 2 million22:02
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hubI wish there was a feature *crack this network* in the 77022:04
hub;-)22:04
npricesoooooo anyone used the dennis kirk outlet store22:04
jtokashhttp://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/01/were-getting-some-feedback-and-weve-got.html22:04
npricewhoops wrong channel22:04
gpddwd: http://dave.cridland.net/acap/ <-- this acap stuff is interesting22:05
partjtokash: it's already in the topic, thanks22:05
Aleksandyrerg. What's a decent equivalent to expect that I might be able to get working on the 770?22:05
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partaleksandyr: expect should work as it is, it's not hardware specific22:07
Aleksandyrpart: expect requires Tcl, and configuration, and is a sufficiently useful thing that I figured there would be an equivalent already ported.22:07
Piohub, yeah, its annoying how 'manual' all the existing cracking tools seem to be22:08
Pioyou have to try this, try that.. tinker tinker..22:08
Pioit could be better automated, thats for sure22:08
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Aleksandyrpart: I'm using it to avoid writing my own trie-search: I'd rather not inflict my laziness on my end-users to that degree ;)22:08
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Ph3NoMeN0hi all :)22:10
Takexpect has a builtin trie search?22:11
gpddwd: it seems that telomere is a client available for 770!22:11
AleksandyrTak: in the sense that I plan to use it, yes22:11
partaleksandyr: I can't see why you would want to use expect on a platfrom where it's not available by default22:11
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sbaturzioAloha!22:12
Takpart: by that logic, expect would never have been written22:12
Aleksandyrpart: I'm trying to write a stable C wrapper for mplayer's slave mode, and I'm duplicating a great deal of work that libexpect would handle in a much safer fashion.22:12
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TakAleksandyr: ooo...a tcp-ip aware wrapper perhaps?22:13
partwhy not just make mplayer's slave mode api better?22:14
AleksandyrTak: MaemoTube and an as-yet-unnamed drop-in replacement for osso-video-player.22:14
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Aleksandyrpart: see the MPlayer mailing list. It's not a new problem ;)22:14
Takthat sounds like a no22:14
partplease no22:14
AleksandyrTak: define tcp-ip aware, then?22:15
wheggejoin #rrlug22:15
TakI'm thinking mplayer slave that listens on a socket22:16
AleksandyrTak: netcat + mplayer = that.22:16
dragornhub: it doesn't have much to do with weak IVs22:16
partaleksandyr: anyway, apt-get source expect on a debian system, copy the source over to your scratchbox, compile22:16
dragornhub: and hasn't in a long time.  Weak IVs are a function of the RC4 keyspace and have been avoided by firmware for many years now.22:16
Takmeh22:16
Aleksandyrpart: fails due to Tcl dependencies, which as I've said, I really don't want to add as a requirement.22:16
partaleksandyr: expect will require tcl at runtime too22:17
tzzis there a port of gcc to the 770?22:17
Aleksandyrpart: which was the start of this conversation: is there something else I might be able to use.22:17
hubtzz: to run on the 770?22:18
tzzright22:18
Aleksandyrtzz: developer rootfs has it, but running gcc on the 770 is...of limited use22:19
dragorntheres nothing stopping you from running a gcc on the hw itself, but...  it's not quick.22:19
hubeven though I have run gcc on machines with less power :-)22:19
partaleksandyr: I'd just patch the software to include a better slave mode. expect is a solution for closed environments22:19
tzzthanks all22:19
partdragorn: it's a lot better on the n80022:19
keesjthis cairo guy is realy smart!22:19
dragornpart: well yes, you're throwing 2x the power and a bunch more ram at it :P22:20
tzzthe Perl Inline::C module is very handy for testing a few lines of C, so I may try to get it working on the 77022:20
partdragorn: almost..22:20
Aleksandyrpart: I have to disagree on both points. The only better slave mode would be a C library interface, and that's not realistic.22:21
partthe more I hear about mplayer, the less I want to use it22:22
tzzhmm, is there a way to piggyback the Scratchbox network connection on the host machine's network?22:22
Aleksandyrpart: unfortunately it's by far the most robust video player the 770's got22:23
parttzz: it does that, it's just a chroot22:23
Aleksandyrtzz: kind of done for you: just copy over your /etc/resolv.conf to scratchbox and you should be fine.22:23
partaleksandyr: which is not saying much. I wouldn't want to touch said software on a desktop22:23
Aleksandyrpart: agreed!22:23
Takimo it's the most robust video player for linux in general22:24
Aleksandyralthough, XBox Media Center, one of my favorite projects, is MPlayer-based. -that- would be great to have on the 770.22:24
AleksandyrTak: I'd give that award to VLC.22:24
Ph3NoMeN0hey dudes, anyone has ever experienced video streaming from a DreamBox to nokia 770/800?22:25
Ph3NoMeN0is VLC available for 770? sorry I'm new to this device :) I'm going to buy a N80022:29
AleksandyrPh3NoMeN0: it's been done, but no work was released IIRC: http://n770galaxy.blogspot.com22:29
AleksandyrVLC is not currently available for either device.22:29
HGFBHmm. For some reason all of a sudden my 800 thinks my sd card is corrupt. Even after a reformat22:30
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HGFBThat's a bit of a bitch22:30
Ph3NoMeN0thnx for the info , so I think I couldn't manage to stream from my dreambox to the tablet22:30
Aleksandyrnot right now, no22:30
AleksandyrTak: what would you do with a socket-aware mplayer?22:30
* Aleksandyr is curious.22:31
Ph3NoMeN0damn :P It would be one of the most remarkable reason to buy a N80022:31
tzzaleksandyr: when I log in, /etc/resolv.conf is incorrect, but /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf is correct.  What am I editing?22:31
Takmake my remote control client app less ssh-hackiness-specific22:31
Aleksandyrtzz: /scratchbox/users/<your username>/etc/resolv.conf22:32
shackanthat's dumb..22:32
shackanScratchbox group...22:32
shackanE: User not in sbox group, or no new login terminal since group membership.22:32
tzzaleksandyr: thanks.  sorry for asking all the obvious questions, I just got started with Scratchbox yesterday.22:32
shackaneven after sb-adduser22:32
Takand probably actually release it22:33
Jaffare22:33
Aleksandyrtzz: quite alright, I've been there myself :D22:33
Aleksandyrshackan: try `groups`?22:34
shackanAleksandyr, ok resolved, I was supposed to log out and log in again (??)22:34
AleksandyrTak: 770 as a remote control for a remote mplayer?22:34
dragornif you change the groups for your user22:34
Takyes22:34
dragornyou need to log out and log in again for that to take effect22:34
Aleksandyrshackan: yes, otherwise your user groups don't get updated.22:34
dragornheh22:34
* shackan smacks himself22:35
dragornif I typed quicker, that might have even been relevant.22:35
Aleksandyrrelevance is overrated22:35
HGFBWhat the hell is going on here. One minute my sd card was working. The next the 800 is saying it's corrupt and not reading it (It works fine in my PC). Does anyone have any ideas what might be wrong?22:35
AleksandyrHGFB: the 770 would claim the memory card was corrupt for a Whole Host of Random Reasons.22:35
AleksandyrHGFB: the solution is to open up an xterm, mount it, and see what the -real- problem was.22:36
AleksandyrTak: I'd be interested in seeing the source, as what I'm writing is, effectively, the same thing22:36
HGFBI can't do that. I don't have root22:37
Taksure, I can send it to you22:37
AleksandyrHGFB: more /etc/sudoers, find the mount command that OS2007 uses, and sudo that.22:37
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Taknote: it is ridiculously hackish and specific to my setup22:38
AleksandyrTak: and my work -isn't-?22:38
TakI have no idea, not having seen it :-P22:38
HGFBCan't more the file. Don't have permissions22:38
tzz-from-maemohello from ERC running inside Emacs running inside Maemo :)  Thanks for the help with the network setup!22:38
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AleksandyrHGFB: install becomeroot then?22:39
tzzI can't wait for my N800 to get here so I can start testing Emacs on it...22:39
AleksandyrHGFB: or try sudo /usr/sbin/mmc-mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc122:40
Takemacs must be a blast without a bt kb22:40
Aleksandyr(which is the 770's command to mount the MMC)22:40
tzztak: I'm going to add menus to send M-x C-x etc.22:40
Pioare there shortcuts in osso-xterm to do ctrl sequences? i hate doing that tools -> send ctrl thing22:40
HGFBI can't sudo Aleksandyr. I don't have a password and becomeroot warns you can brick your tablet. I'd rather not try that on a 800 without confirmation it works22:41
tzztak: plus hardware keys of course22:41
AleksandyrHGFB: Yes, you can sudo very specific things, that's how some UIs function in OS2006 and I highly doubt they altered that in 2007.22:41
tzztak: stuff like Gnus and dired is already very good without a keyboard in Emacs btw.22:42
JaffaHGFB: install the ssh server and ssh root@127.0.0.1 then22:42
HGFBAleksandyr, It's still asking for a sudo password22:43
AleksandyrHGFB: Furthermore, becomeroot doesn't brick your tablet, you doing bad things as root bricks your tablet. Even then, an OS reflash fixes it.22:43
AleksandyrHGFB: hrm, on the 770, all the sudo commands you can do are NOPASSWD.22:43
JaffaAleksandyr: well, we don't know for *sure* that becomeroot's modification of /etc/sudoers won't leave it semi-broken.22:43
framerateHGFB: I have becomeroot on my 800 with no problems seen yet22:43
AleksandyrJaffa: framerate makes the fourth person I've heard say it works on their N80022:44
tzzunder the SDK_X86 target in maemo 3, un-Hildonized applications still work properly when minimized, unlike 1.x/2.x as I remember.  Is that also true for the real N800 environment?22:44
Jaffaah, there we go.22:44
JaffaAleksandyr: fair enough, I'll add that to my mental file22:44
AleksandyrJaffa: I try not to brick other people's tablets. It's a karma thing :D22:44
JaffaAleksandyr: :)22:44
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HGFBmounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc1 failed: no such file or directory22:47
Ph3NoMeN0and what about samba? is it possible with a N800 to share a folder on a Mac or a Linux Machine ?22:48
HGFBRight. Done it properly now. I'm getting device or resource busy.22:49
HGFBDoes anyone know what might be stopping the card from being mounted?22:51
shackanoh damn22:53
AleksandyrHGFB: tried restarting the device, I assume?22:53
HGFBYup22:53
HGFBNo effect22:53
shackanI don't have enough space on / and just fscked everything up when moving /scratchbox on another partition22:53
AleksandyrHGFB: output of "mount" ?22:53
HGFBDevice or resource busy22:54
atlais there also gtkmm available on n770 and n800?22:54
AleksandyrHGFB: mount with no options says that?22:55
HGFBAh. I see what you're getting at. One second22:55
framerateHGFB: my n800 says "card in use" too for the card in came with (after a day) and is now corrupt22:56
AleksandyrHGFB: I'm paying attention, I swear :D22:56
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HGFBMount shows nothing is mounted on mmc122:56
AleksandyrHGFB: swapon -s22:57
AleksandyrHGFB: it's not mmc1 that's busy, it's /dev/mmcblk* I suspect22:57
HGFB-s isn't an option22:57
HGFBswapn [-a] device22:57
Aleksandyrfkn busybox!22:57
Aleksandyrcat /proc/swaps22:58
HGFBempty22:58
HGFBI could probably fix this by reflashing but two of us have this problem so far. It might be better if we can figure out what's broken22:58
frameratek guess it's not related to my issue :(22:59
HGFBhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=29005#post2900523:00
HGFBSomeone else with the problem23:00
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framerateIs there an image slideshow program ported to the N800 yet? This thing is begging to be a small digital photoframe23:02
Takthere's the Images utility23:03
framerateI didn't think it had a slideshow, but I may ahve missed it23:03
roopeNope, unfortunately.23:04
roopeTigert was talking about this small app to contact flickr and run slideshows of the pictures of your flickr contacts. Now that would be nice.23:04
framerateHmm, in SDL a slideshow would take like an hour to write, I'd think23:04
HGFBI've fixed it23:06
HGFBAnd discovered something interesting about my new toy23:06
HGFBIf I have the power cable connected shutting down doesn't actually shut down. Once I rebooted properly it worked again23:06
* HGFB feels dumb23:06
HGFBAh well. At least I got becomeroot out of it :)23:06
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HGFBWhich ssh server do you recommend I install?23:09
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Milhouse"sudo gainroot; apt-get install ssh" works for me23:17
Milhousethat should install openssh23:17
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Ph3NoMeN0and what about samba? is it possible with a N800 to share a folder on a Mac or a Linux Machine ?23:33
Ph3NoMeN0I repeat :) sorry23:33
MilhouseYes23:36
MilhouseIf not now, then certainly once the samba package has been recompiled for the new N800 kernel23:37
Milhousedefinately possible on the 77023:37
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gpdhmm... gizmoproject not working so well today - says i am on the phone but not ringing the other end23:48
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Ph3NoMeN0Milhouse: Thnx23:55
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