IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2012-10-28

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pai guess you could make it with a sort of predictive algorithm that uses backtracking in case it fails00:01
pa(if you want a general algorithm, that would work, but that would work also without knowing that the vector is constant)00:02
djszapiwhat would work?00:02
paso, do you have a solution for that problem already, or not?00:04
djszapiit does not matter :)00:04
djszapijust go figure out :D00:04
djszapiI cannot tell the solution now :)00:04
djszapiI will leave you without sleep :D00:04
pawell its a little difficult00:04
djszapijust do not burn your brain too much00:04
pabecause i know the vector is constant00:04
pabut the shepherd doesnt00:04
djszapiI have a more difficult, albeit shorter question if you wish.00:04
pago on00:05
CissWitdjszapi: you need to be more specific about what is the volocity vector00:05
djszapiCissWit: it is constant and arbitrary.00:05
djszapithe shepherd does not know, just like I wrote.00:05
djszapialbeit, the shepherd knows it is constant.00:06
paso what is the other problem?00:06
CissWitthe question is to know if the shep can enumerate all of the possible volicity vector00:06
CissWitif he finds the good velocity vector he can find the wolf as his first position is known00:06
CissWitif the velocity vector is part of an enumerable set, then the sheep can find it, if not, he won't00:07
djszapiso you are saying the shepherd cannot find the wolf?00:07
paCissWit, but the shepherd doesnt know that the vector is constant00:07
CissWitthat's what i say00:07
CissWit"the shepherd knows it is constant."00:07
djszapiCissWit: then you do not have other approach than proving for each algorithm it does not work that can just exist00:08
djszapiif you really think that is the correct answer.00:08
paCissWit, the velocity vector is part of an enumerable set, but how can the shepherd figure out it is constant?00:09
djszapiyou have to find a mathematical approach (I would do that if I guessed that) to prove that.00:09
djszapipa: the task is that the shepherd does know00:09
djszapibut the shepherd does not know the concrete value00:09
djszapialbeit the shepherd knows that it is not infinite.00:09
paah so, it does know! you wrote ihe doesnt00:09
djszapiit is an arbitrary finite number.00:09
pathen it's possible, of course00:09
djszapino, I did not write.00:09
CissWitdjszapi: my mathematical background is too old to provide a formal proof, still, that's a problem of computability00:09
payou wrote: The shepster does not know anything about the constant velocity vector.00:09
* djszapi sees that pa and CissWit are in contradiction.00:10
CissWitthe fact is that the velocity vector is in a not enumerable set00:10
djszapipa: correct00:10
paso you see00:10
djszapibut I do not see how that would mean it does not know it is not constant.00:10
djszapihe knows it is constant00:10
CissWitso the sheep cannot enumerable all of the possible value of the vector00:10
djszapibut it does not know the value off hand00:10
pawell anyway00:10
djszapiotherwise it would be super easy.00:10
CissWitif the vector is in an enumerable set, he can00:10
djszapiLOLZ sheep00:11
CissWithe could*00:11
djszapithere is no sheep!00:11
CissWiti think it's more funny with a sheep searching for the wolf00:11
pamy solution is: start from 0, check neighbouring point of distance = 1 step. if you find nothing, iterate. soon or late you will find the first point  where the wolf has been at time T=100:11
djszapiok, let it be a rubby.00:11
CissWit(and i misread you :')00:11
djszapirabbit*00:12
pa(the vector is constant, so you have no risk that the wolf goes back)00:12
djszapipa: no00:12
djszapibecause the wolf is moving.00:12
payes00:12
djszapiwe discussed that over.00:12
pabut you can check if the wolf has been in a specific location, cant you?00:12
djszapiyour algorithm does not work for that for obvious reasons.00:12
paor can you check only the current wolf position?00:12
djszapi21:46 < djszapi> the shepster cannot ask if the wolf had been there or not though.00:12
djszapishepherd*00:12
paallright00:13
pathen i misread you00:13
djszapiI cannot tell the solution :)00:13
djszapibut I hope you will sleep nice :)00:14
djszapido not burn your brain, again. ;)00:14
djszapiso shall we go for the more difficult question?00:14
payes it is solvable00:14
payes go on00:14
djszapihow?00:14
djszapipresent me the algorithm.00:14
pawell i cant explain it just now,b ut  CissWit was right i think00:14
pai will00:14
pagive us your other riddle now :)00:15
djszapiCissWit said it cannot be solved.00:15
djszapiyou have just said "yes it is solvable"00:15
paok00:15
paso00:15
djszapinone proved anything.00:15
payou have 8 possible directions00:15
paand a length that is a given arbitrary number00:15
CissWithow do you know there's only 8 possible directions ?00:15
djszapinot really...00:15
pawell00:15
djszapiyou have kinda "infinite...00:15
paah right00:15
djszapias the velocity vector ratio is not known.00:16
payou dont have 8 possible directions00:16
djszapifor x and y.00:16
djszapilet me know tomorrow if you find the solution.00:16
djszapibut sleep a bit at least! ;)00:16
CissWityou have infinite directions, infinite magnitude00:16
paCissWit, well not really invinite00:16
paor00:16
painfinite possible00:16
CissWiti don't know, i asked if it was an int, a float or a real00:17
CissWiti have no answer00:17
pahe said int00:17
CissWitsorry00:17
paso if you can estabilish an order of these vectors00:17
payou can still probably examine all of them00:17
paand soon or late find the wolf00:17
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CissWityou don't need to order them, only to enumerate them. if you can't enumerate them all, you can't be sure you will find him .. without any more information00:18
paright00:18
pabut you can enumerate them00:18
pacoz the grid is discrete, as far as i understood00:19
djszapiI do not understand this enumeration thingie.00:19
djszapiit is not an infinite vector, just the plane is infinite.00:19
djszapiso of course if you increment a counter, you will exceed sooner or later.00:19
djszapian arbitrary number00:19
padjszapi, the coordinates where the wolf can be are integers, not reals, right?00:19
djszapiI am saying regardless it is a help or mishelp00:20
djszapiI am just trying to clarify that enumeration does not make sense in this case.00:20
bef0rdI think its not possible00:20
paCissWit, im not sure enumeration is enough tho00:20
djszapipa: I do not think it actually matters.00:20
CissWitdjszapi: by definition of an enumerable set, if the vector is part of an enumerable set, the wolf can be found00:20
djszapibut if you wish, you can work with integral type.00:20
pai think some sort of order might be necessary, no?00:21
paCissWit, even though the concept of ordering might be included in your definition of enumerable00:22
padjszapi, so what is your other riddle?00:23
djszapiThere is a climber having 31 m rope. The climber is on the top of the rock and the plan is to get into the valley at the bottom. There are two points where the climber can outspread the rope. At the top (current  starting position) or at the middle of the rock. The rock is 40 m high. The climber cannot jump, just climb, but the rope can be cut anytime. How would you get the climber into the valley?00:23
djszapiI can draw the situation if it is visually unclear.00:24
djszapiOh yeah, and the climber does not have any height, so consider that as a discrete point again.00:24
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paso the climber can be up and down only using the rope00:25
pas/be/go00:25
djszapiyeah, the climber can climb, but cannot jump.00:26
paare you sure there's nothing missing in the description?00:27
djszapiyes00:28
pabut say you bind a rope in the middle of the rock, can the climber still climb up?00:29
djszapiclimbing is climbing00:29
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djszapino matter when where how what who.00:30
CissWitthen pa found the answer00:30
CissWit^^00:30
djszapiand no climbing is of course no climbing.00:31
djszapino matter when where how what who.00:31
djszapiwhat answer exactly?00:32
CissWitum, nothing00:32
pagoogle knows the answer, btw00:33
pa:)00:33
pai know, it's cheating00:33
djszapioh, I have not checked google yet if it is up there.00:34
CissWiti am not sure of what you mean with "outspread"00:34
djszapito stabilize the rope to that point.00:34
djszapifor climbing.00:34
CissWitok00:35
djszapiperhaps outspread is not the right word.00:35
djszapithis task was told to me in Hungarian :D00:35
pabut you should have said that you can cut  but tie as well00:35
djszapiThe climber cannot jump, just climb, but the rope can be cut anytime.00:36
paok, it might have been implicit00:36
djszapifrom the initial description ^^00:36
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djszapipa: so what did you find on google as no one cares anymore?00:52
djszapican you summarie?00:52
djszapisummarize*00:52
djszapiI have an idea but I have never checked google.00:53
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paok, so in short you cut the rope at mt 11, you make  a little loop at one end, and you thread the rest of the rope in that loop, and then tie the two ends together, so that you can untie the 20mt piece once you get in the middle of the rock00:59
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djszapimy idea is this:01:00
djszapiyou cut off the one third01:00
djszapithen you tie at the top01:01
djszapithen you slide down 20 ms01:01
djszapi20 m = 2/301:01
djszapithen tie01:01
djszapithen climb up 1/301:01
djszapicut, fall down 2/301:01
djszapitie the one you cut off initially.01:01
djszapiand then you are down.01:01
djszapibut it is a bit mad, and actually a real alpinist will not do this way :D01:02
pa:)01:02
djszapithey like swing as far as I know.01:02
djszapiswinging*01:02
djszapionly Chuck Norris would do that insane :D01:02
paor Sly :)01:03
paor probably tom cruise, but only in the movies ;)01:04
pathis pussy boy01:04
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djszapi_pa: so did the shepherd find the wolf last night? :D17:39
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pamaybe not last night, but he will ;)17:46
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padoes boosting an app use memory when the app is not running?18:38
pai remember that after reflashing i had like 550mb free, and now after reinstalling a bunch of stuff, im on 490 or so18:38
pa(after reboot)18:38
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marcellus_hi. I was trying to remane the file snd_camera_shutter.wav from my Phone so that the camera will shut up by taking pictures.18:49
marcellus_I am using filebox as file manager, but it won't allow me to do so.18:50
marcellus_any idea how to gain root access to achieve this goal?18:50
Lava_Croftmarcellus_: This http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=80600 allows you to silence the camera shutter too18:54
Lava_CroftIt basically does what you try to do, only it does it 'for you'18:54
Lava_CroftI cant vouch for the rest of the application tho, it might as well have other options that break shit18:54
Lava_Croftbut iirc its relatively 'safe'18:54
Lava_Croftcoincidentally, i think this app lets set root permissions for filebox too18:55
marcellus_Thanks a lot, Lava_Croft! I will try that!18:57
Lava_Croftand i guess you know how you could achieve this by hand?18:57
Lava_CroftI guess enabling Developer Mode on your N9 and then using devel-su to gain root access would be sufficient to rename said wave file18:58
Lava_Crofthttp://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Activating_developer_mode.html18:58
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padjszapiN9, did qt5 eventuall manage to land ont he store? :)21:32
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ZogG_laptop sup22:26
befordhey22:26
djszapiN9pa, nope only qt622:34
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ieatlintyeah, qt6 should be out any day now22:38
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paespeak is pretty cool! thanks rzr!23:10
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pasimple question for those who have already qt5 on the n9: does the qt5 web browser perform better than stock broswer, opera or firefox?23:12
ieatlinti found it comparable... didn't notice it being better, and i ended up falling back to the stock browser pretty quickly23:14
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djszapiN9ieatlint, how is stuff?23:20
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ieatlintworking... finishing up a project tomorrow, then hopefully looking forward to a calmer work schedule for a bit23:21
ieatlinthow goes you?23:21
djszapiN9leaving Ireland soon, finally!23:23
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djszapiN9Will take a few days off in England.23:24
djszapiN9pa hard to say as qt5 is buggy upstream.23:24
djszapiN9so no any browser on top of it will run.23:25
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ieatlintwell, i imagine you're happy to get out of .ie23:28
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djszapiN9at least the goats'n stuff.23:32
djszapiN9I prefer big cities23:32
ieatlintyou can have goats in big cities23:33
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pai see.. thanks!23:34
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