IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2011-09-27

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sivangDocScrutinizer: not just your pc :)00:08
DocScrutinizeryeah, also my mind00:08
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spenaphey, what could be the best way to notify users of the rzr's repository that the Ovi Store is now the preferred way ot distribution of an app?00:35
SpeedEvilI tried the instructions for adding the RZR repo, and it diddn't work00:38
SpeedEvilapt-get upgdate said that it was ignoring the repo00:38
SpeedEvilIs this s I was screwing up, or doesn't work with latest00:39
SpeedEvilIs ovi store really appropraite - for - say - netcat or screen?00:39
DocScrutinizerwut? ovi store is the recommended way to publish devel tools that are not "safe for endusers"?00:40
spenapfirst thing: I used rzr's repo this weekend to get vnc and worked fine00:40
spenapbut I wouldn't use Ovi to publish "tools"00:40
spenapthe thing is that I started distributing butaca, the cinema information app, on the rzr repo, but now I'll be favoring the ovi store00:41
macmaNsup alls00:41
macmaNis anyone BT DUNing with beta2 here?00:41
macmaNor BT PANing?00:41
DocScrutinizerspenap: the common way to deal with such a problem is probably to "update" the app to a mere infoscreen popping up during install, that says "please get me from OVI store now!"00:42
MohammadAGdoes the N950 support internet radio?00:43
MohammadAGI want on it00:43
spenapDocScrutinizer, that's a good idea, yep00:43
artemmaMohammadAG: there's even some internet radio in ovi store. Works quite badly though00:43
javispedroit's fun00:43
MohammadAGMAFW supports it for sure btw00:43
javispedrothe only thing Nokia need to encourage use of the ovi store is to let us handle the community repo00:43
MohammadAGjust not sure music-suite does00:43
MohammadAGyou know00:44
SpeedEvilI thought there was talk of a community repo browser app00:44
MohammadAGextras-devel for distribution harmattan isn't a bad idea00:44
javispedroyeah, talk.00:44
MohammadAGhas X-Fade ever considered it00:44
javispedroand probably even code.00:44
sivangso N950 is not like Maemo in distribution apps?00:48
sivangmust go through OVI?00:48
* sivang is confused again.00:48
sivangIs there an conversation post somewhere about this?00:48
sivangas in
* sivang thinks we should have had an harmattan ml00:49
javispedronoone wants to talk about harmattan00:49
javispedrofew do00:49
javispedroa very small number of nokians and decreasing..00:49
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sivangjavispedro: so what's news about pbulishing debs to harmattan? no more
javispedrothere's no news, and that's the problem.00:50
sivangjavispedro: so no announcment about what is the canonical way to publish harmattan debs?00:51
javispedrothere's no announcement, this is just missing community work.00:52
sivangoh, ok.00:53
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artemmaMy name is Artem and I am a harmattanolic00:56
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SpeedEvilThe canonical way is to place a SD card in a cannon.01:00
javispedrogood one :D01:01
sivangso, nobody has an idea about a good framework for web service backend for connected app?01:16
artemmasivang: what kind of app? For publishing debs?01:16
sivangartemma: no, for storing informatio user enters at a handset client onto the cloud01:17
sivangartemma: I will care about publishing debs when I have an app ready :)01:17
artemmaDrupal is pretty good for lots of different backends and used in a hell a lot of places including serving the videos01:17
sivangartemma: serving the videos where?01:18
artemmabut it depends on the context as well01:18
artemmasivang: I just remember one drupal showcase when whole front end was in flash and backend - drupal01:18
sivangdoes it have anything ready for rating? like giving feedback about a product or a web page?01:18
artemmanot a typical use case as usually it's both backend and frontend01:18
sivangartemma: nice, which app was that?01:18
artemmabut it depends on the context as well. If you just need to store few bits of data, google app engine may be faster to get started with01:19
sivangI am checking Django, but there's nothing ready there and it requires lots of custom development, perhaps I should look at an CMS01:19
sivangso google appengine is django right?01:19
artemmaoh well, app engine is django with the head cut out :)01:19
artemmaor more like with the guts replaced with the conveyor belt01:20
sivangso I'll go on with Django01:20
sivangthanks for the tip01:20
* sivang heads to bed.01:20
sivangnight all!01:20
artemmabeware, that app engine process is different from django01:20
artemmastart with app engine from start if you plan to use it01:21
artemmaparticularly data storage is different01:21
sivangartemma: is it free?01:21
artemmaapp engine is free until some amount of web-request01:21
artemmacheck their pricing01:21
sivangI will01:21
sivangI can actually use the new service by Andrew and the other guy who invented Django01:22
sivanganywya night01:22
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* javispedro args at qmafw docs02:55
javispedroenum MafwRenderer::State:02:55
javispedro - "Playing": playback state is stopped02:55
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javispedro- "Paused": playback state is playing02:56
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OwariDaDoes anyone know where I can get hold of this kerneltree for the N950:
OwariDaI've only found kernel_2.6.32-20112201+0m6.tar.gz03:10
OwariDaI want to patch and recompile the wifi driver, so it'd be good with a matching kerneltree .. :)03:13
javispedronot yet released03:15
OwariDaThanks anyway.. :) Hmm, you know when the srctree will be released?03:16
javispedrono idea, tbh...03:19
javispedroeither way, how you were planning to do that with aegis? did you do it on beta1?03:19
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javispedrostupid qmafw is deciding to sometimes not to send me the albumart for the currently playing album :P03:39
berndhswell you know, unauthorized copying of music is one thing, but album art, that's where the tolerance stops03:43
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OwariDajavispedro: i was under the impression that i can load kernelmodules, at least with develsh, even with aegis?04:27
javispedrooh hoho.04:27
OwariDai haven't tried though, so don't really know. saw some thread about someone using a kernelmodule to disable aegis though? :)04:28
OwariDaOk, reading.04:28
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OwariDaHaha, ah, so you were the one developing the kernelmodule in question. :D04:29
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OwariDaIs the flaw you found still there?04:32
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Tronicjavispedro: What's your take: is it a good idea to go beta2?04:38
TronicI'm still on a largely unlocked beta1.04:38
Tronic(but the bugs of that nag me)04:38
javispedrodepends on your usecases.04:39
javispedroOwariDa: yes, but it's not that useful until you get kernel source.04:39
OwariDaNeed kernelsymaddys?04:39
javispedroand the build system04:40
OwariDaI'm getting curious. :) Vulnerability research and exploit development is my primary interest/focus. The project I'm working on at the moment requires me to try to implement monitor mode support for the wl1271 though, and I think I know a way to do it.04:42
OwariDaBut unless I can build, and load, unsigned kernel modules it's useless anyway.04:43
SpeedEvilit's impossible to run arbitrary binaries with relaced-exec on latest?04:44
DocScrutinizeraiui yes04:45
DocScrutinizerjavispedro should know for good04:45
javispedroimpossible in stock04:46
Tronicjavispedro: Well, so far I haven't had need for hardware access denied by aegis, and I might survive being only able to run packaged apps and not being able to debug on device.04:47
OwariDaWouldn't running arbitrary binaries be possible with any vulnerability in a signed app that leads to arbitrary code execution..? And since it can be a regular app and not necessarily SUID etc -> not written with security in mind -> should be trivial to find a suitable vuln -> payload that is able to unmap original code segments and then load/link an ELF from memory = Run arbitrary apps.04:47
javispedroOwariDa: aegis blocks PROT_EXEC mmaps from unsigned binaries04:48
TronicBut I guess this is more about whether there will be publicly known hacks to disable aegis in the future, with beta2 and later.04:48
OwariDa"from unsigned binaries"..? But is a PROT_EXEC mmap() allowed from within a signed binary?04:48
OwariDaIs mprotect() restricted?04:49
javispedroOwariDa: depends on the _target_04:49
javispedroif its anonymous mem, I don't remember what happens (not even tried I think)04:49
TronicAnd also whether having a cracked beta1 device helps cracking future versions.04:49
OwariDaWell, obviously I don't need to mmap() from the binary I want to execute.04:49
javispedroif it's a file, it is hashed and checked.04:49
OwariDaSo, it's quite likely I can mmap() anonymous mem and then read from file and write into that.04:50
javispedrommaping prot_exec anonymous memory is not quite "likely"04:50
OwariDaIf they've restricted that, JIT-compiling interpreters wouldn't work either.04:50
javispedrobut it is something I'd expect the policy not to consider at all..04:51
DocScrutinizercould we install develsh.deb of beta1 on beta2?04:52
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you have it?04:52
OwariDaI just checked validator.c in the kernelsrc that was available, and as far as I can see they don't care about anon mappings + they don't do anything about mprotect().04:52
DocScrutinizerI guess I have it, yes04:53
DocScrutinizerif it's ever been on the device or on Nokia's repo then I have it04:53
javispedroDocScrutinizer: thing is, I think it's not been on either, since it came preinstalled04:54
javispedroit might have been on Nokia repo though04:54
OwariDa-> Should be trivial to bypass aegis. The payload is admittedly not really trivial though, but has already been done for projects like metasploit (in-memory .so-injection).04:54
DocScrutinizerso what? just extract the signature and manifest set of tokens from that file04:54
javispedroDocScrutinizer: _what_ file04:55
OwariDaThat's just for executing unsigned binaries though, kernelmodules would require a different method.04:55
DocScrutinizerisn't there a file that ooooh probably never has the signature enclosing/sealing the whole stuff04:55
javispedroDocScrutinizer: on the .deb :(04:55
OwariDajavispedro: Have I overlooked anything, or do you agree with my reasoning?04:56
DocScrutinizermompl, is it supposed to be called develsh* ?04:56
javispedroOwariDa: it is currently much easier than that. Plus, by talking about this stuff you're actually enraging me.04:56
javispedrothis. should. not. be. android.04:56
TronicDocScrutinizer: Yes, version 0.13 IIRC.04:58
OwariDaOk, I'm entirely new to harmattan etc, and don't really understand why talking about bypassing aegis might enrage you? Care to explain?04:58
DocScrutinizerhmm :-/04:58
javispedroOwariDa: you read my post? I explain it there04:59
javispedroDocScrutinizer: that is source04:59
OwariDaI didn't read everything no.04:59
DocScrutinizerthat's why "hmm :-/"04:59
DocScrutinizerthough, lemme check the rsync as of a few weeks ago :-)05:00
TronicAutomated rsync + git for version history would be awesome.05:01
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DocScrutinizer[jr@lagrange nokia]$ find -name '*develsh*'05:01
javispedroyou didn't sync the ondevice repo05:02
javispedroharmattan-dev is the public one05:03
javispedrothere's some other in other domain05:03
javispedrothe one that requires http auth05:03
OwariDajavispedro: I read enough to understand that you're upset about there not being any official way to open the device up for development etc, which I agree with. I also understood that you want to keep your latest aegis hole private for some time. So, one possible reason for you to be upset is that you don't want new aegis flaws to be discussed in public..?05:03
javispedroOwariDa: what don't want is to start having to scavenge for bugs like on most other platforms. I've said I've done it once, and that I have to do it again, I'm leaving the platform.05:05
DocScrutinizerwhile meanwhile we got Tuesday here05:07
KypeliI guess in general, at least for me, the most disappointing fact is that it seems the talks aboit the open mode were all a myth.05:07
OwariDaI agree with that. It's sad that there is no truly open phone yet.05:07
KypeliOr stuff just changed after Feb11. But still05:07
SpeedEvilOwariDa: neo1973/freerunner05:08
OwariDaOk, with a few exceptions then. :)05:08
DocScrutinizer~ DocScrutinizer05:08
infobotfrom memory, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko05:08
OwariDaBut it's sad that the "mainstream" platforms are so locked down.05:08
berndhsyes that is sad05:09
DocScrutinizerthat's for sure05:09
DocScrutinizerwhere "platforms" soon is ISA PC as well05:09
berndhsmany problems exist in the world and in the industry, and capable engineers are not allowed to fix them05:09
DocScrutinizerat least if M$ is making headway with their insane ideas05:10
OwariDaAndroid is reaaaaally open compared to iPhone, where they don't only enforce signed binaries, but require every executable memory page to be signed as well. And that's really just to protect the AppStore money-making model, not to protect the users.. :)05:10
OwariDaDocScrutinizer: Yeah, I read about the Windows 8 OEM-requirements..05:10
DocScrutinizer(protect appstore) do you think aegis is any different?05:12
OwariDaDocScrutinizer: In its purpose, no. In its implementation, yeah, seems much more crude and more easily defeated.05:12
DocScrutinizerif anybody tries to tell you aegis was about user security, just leave that place and don't listen05:13
GeneralAntillesBe fun to be a fly on the wall in those meetings.05:13
OwariDaAnd even if they perfect it, one would "just" have to use a ROP-payload to exploit a kernelvuln (and there will always be new kernelvulns...) -> kernelpayload disables aegis -> usermode payload may execute.05:14
OwariDaI only wonder how long the rat race has to keep going..05:14
OwariDaVulnerabilityresearchers/exploitdevelopers will always have flaws to use for running their code. It's, sadly, the developers that are the losers in the end..05:16
DocScrutinizerit eventually will change from a systemwide/kernel rat race to a per-app rat arce05:16
OwariDaHow so?05:17
DocScrutinizerwhen we got a "jailbreak" and Nokia starts to add traps to each single app05:17
OwariDaWell, any app is a potential target, since it's only used to exploit a kernelvuln -> disable aegis systemwide.05:18
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: that presumes the platform is not abandonware05:19
OwariDaAnd I really don't see how that would change into a per-app rat race, unless they start doing behaviour profiling of apps, only allows the minimum set of syscalls for each, etc. And even then it won't be enough.05:20
SpeedEvilOnly allow minimum set of syscalls is the whole point of aegis05:20
DocScrutinizernah, you got me wrong, I was talking about dialer et al not working on a jailbreaked system, due to tests in the particular app05:21
berndhsdon't forget that they also want to measure user behaviour for marketing purposes05:21
OwariDaThe "whole point" of aegis seems to be more about making sure binaries are signed.05:21
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OwariDaWhich is far away from being granular enough to be useful for any kind of security purposes.05:22
SpeedEvilAegis - in principle - with a finely granular enough set of permissions, and a sane review team reviewing those permissions is a good thing from a security POV05:23
OwariDaBesides that it's just POSIX capabilities, right?05:23
DocScrutinizerope, aegis also revokes and/or grants permissions to particular bimaries05:23
SpeedEvilYou can in principle have 'this binary can show red pixels' as a capability.05:23
DocScrutinizeryep, aiui mostly posix permissions, though also each "app" can provide services that are a permission class of their own05:24
OwariDaSpeedEvil: Well, in practice, that's not going to happen. And as long as I have open()/read()/write() and ioctl() I'm good to go most of the time when it comes to kernel vulnerabilities.05:24
DocScrutinizeryou may have those perms only for some files, while not for others05:25
GeneralAntilles(Rays tied for wild card! Die Boston, die!)05:26
DocScrutinizeror aegis might trigger selfdestruction when you access such a file05:26
OwariDaDocScrutinizer: That's just POSIX capabilities. It's still not granular enough.05:26
OwariDa-> DoS.05:27
DocScrutinizeryeah, DoS is pretty simple on aegis systems. So much for user's increased security05:28
OwariDaIf they wanted some level of real security, they should have gone for grsec.05:28
DocScrutinizeractually aegis helps a lot for DoS05:29
OwariDaDocScrutinizer: Yeah, a lot of "security features" are pretty good for DoS purposes. :)05:29
DocScrutinizeron beta1 a mere "echo FsckYou >/var/malf" was enough :-P05:30
javispedroOwariDa: "and there will always be new kernelvulns..." that's quite pessimist.05:30
javispedroyes, there will be, but one per year or similar.05:31
javispedroenough time to make the device boring05:31
OwariDajavispedro: Have you seen the stats on linuxkernelvulns? :D05:31
DocScrutinizerplus we won't see new kernels, so no new vulns05:31
javispedroOwariDa: so what.05:32
javispedromost of them are pretty boring from this point of view05:32
DocScrutinizerLinux RM680 #1 PREEMPT Wed Jun 1 18:17:45 EEST 2011 armv7l GNU/Linux05:33
* DocScrutinizer glares at the hash and feels like puking05:33
OwariDajavispedro: A lot of them are really only "useful" for DoS, and a lot of them are useful for a lot more but requires quite a bit of work. A few are more easily exploited, and those are usually the ones ending up with public sploits.05:33
DocScrutinizeroops no hash05:33
javispedrowhich end up being ... once a year.05:33
OwariDaAnd, now it's my turn. So what? ;)05:34
DocScrutinizeranybody any idea what dfl61 means?05:34
OwariDaThere are a lot of exploits that are never made public. And a lot of exploitable vulns that are made public, although noone bothers to research & exploit them.05:35
DocScrutinizerwell, your set of available vulnerabilities in kernel is pretty much defined, see uname above05:37
OwariDaJust as an example: <--- See the GDI-exploit there, it was left unpatched for two years after Microsoft was told about it. When Cesar announced it publicly (without an exploit, since he wasn't able to exploit it himself) I naively thought someone would exploit it shortly after, and that it would be patched.05:37
DocScrutinizerand I'd be surprised to find some known vulns not fixed in tha kenel - well maybe not too much though05:38
OwariDaIt was left unpatched, and unexploited, for almost half a year until I announced my sploit for it.05:38
OwariDaDocScrutinizer: Yeah, a serious Linux kernel vuln will certainly not be left unpatched. But a phone manufacturer will not release a firmware upgrade either, just because of the multitude of vulns that are reported in each new version of the kernel.05:39
OwariDaSince, as javispedro points out, there are usually no public exploits.05:39
DocScrutinizerthere are no new kernel version for harmattan05:39
OwariDa(oh yeah, forgot to mention that Joel Eriksson = me, with regards to the kernelwars thingie)05:40
OwariDaYeah. I doubt that they've backported all relevant patches for kernels later than 2.6.32..05:40
DocScrutinizerso any new vulns would be those already there but not found yet05:40
OwariDaDocScrutinizer: No, there are probably quite a lot of _already public_ kernelvulns for 2.6.32. Like I said, public exploits for the vulns in question is a different story.05:41
OwariDaThere are even public kernel exploits for kernels that old.05:42
DocScrutinizerOwariDa: kernel source is public, you may check what vulnerabilities they patched and which ones are still there05:42
OwariDaAnd now we're back to where this conversation started. Yeah, sort of. I have the 2.6.32-20112201 src, but would need the src for the kernel on my phone.05:44
OwariDaAnd it seems like Nokia haven't released that kernelsrc yet.05:44
DocScrutinizeryeah, annoying05:45
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OwariDaIs javis always this stingy?05:49
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Sazpaimonso the flex cable and housing are on ebay06:55
Sazpaimonall I need now is the camera module, mainboard, lcd and digitizer06:55
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sivangmorning all10:06
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RST38hGood moorning10:34
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gridid anyone ever succeed in using x11 remote with the n950 (for video recording)?10:44
spenapgri, to record screencast I run vnc2flv in host and vnc on device10:45
griis vnc fast enaugh?10:46
spenapgri, judge yourself:
meceapparently N9 is now shipping:
grimece: I have an empty page with header and videos on the right, but text is missing :P10:49
RST38hIs it shipping with the same firmware we have got? =)10:50
grispenap: Where do I get the vnc server for the device?10:50
spenapI'll give you the instructions, one sec10:50
spenapfrom rZr's stuff :)10:50
hiemanshuthere was an unboxing video on Youtube too10:50
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spenapyou'll have to get bash from the official repos at
spenapgri, ^10:51
grispenap: Even though no user logs in with it?10:53
spenapyes: if you check the instructions, bash is somehow required to successfully install VNC10:53
spenapor to successfully configure VNC when installing it10:53
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tommaerr... why not x11vnc?11:03
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tommaoh it was x11vnc11:04
griBut it seems much slower over here than in spenap's video11:05
ArkenoiAre skype contact fields still "invisible" in contact cards in beta2?11:05
spenapgri, I recorded the video using the USB connection11:05
grispenap: I also use the usb connection11:05
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spenapthen, I don't know11:06
gridid you lower the colors or something?11:06
spenapI launched VNC on the device as stated in rzr's wiki, and in my desktop, I used flvrec.py11:07
griswitching off compression makes it much faster11:08
spenapfrom here:
spenapmuch faster than you had it previously or much faster than in my videos?11:08
griThan I had ... now it's about the speed you have in your video11:08
grisomething like recordmydesktop on the device would still be nice :/11:10
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grimece: Can you view the "nokia n9 is heading to the shops" page? I see "Nothing found for .."11:27
grispenap: my test :) I don't like the artifacts, but it works11:35
spenapgri, nice :). Usually, in order to avoid the artifacts, I try not to scroll / move too fast :D11:37
grispenap: Can't change the page transitions :)11:38
spenapyes, that has to go that way :P11:38
mtdis the aegis-protected /home/user/.local/share/tracker/data/ backed up by the Settings -> Sync/Backup -> Backup process?11:47
griThis directory is not aegis protected11:50
griatleast not by aegisfs11:50
griyou only need to be member of the metadata group which you are when running develsh11:51
mecegri, they removed it. you can still see it on the aggregator page:
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Arkenoi <- why so much digital noise, it was not *that* dark..11:55
hiemanshumaybe its the freaky cat with powers :P11:56
mtdgri: the group is, sorry for being imprecise (my source is , so could be wrong)11:57
mtdgri: forgot about develsh, thanks.11:57
grimtd: "Sorry, page not found"11:57
Arkenoiwhat is the difference between devel-sh and develsh?11:58
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griArkenoi: Nothing11:58
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Arkenoigri: then why there are two with different names? :-)12:00
griArkenoi: Maybe they realized typing "-" is annoying :P12:00
grimtd: Yes, the group is metadata-users then, nothing new?!12:01
meceok it's official again.. Nokia N9 begins shipping
griIf it were available in germany ...12:06
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SpeedEvilhmm12:06 lists a way too expensive EU-Import version and doesn't even provide the red one! only blue and black12:06
SpeedEvil480eur is considerably belw some expectations.12:06
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mtdgri: indeed.  I thought you were asking for the correct link, so I gave it to you.  Thanks for your recminder about develsh.12:08
djszapiHi! Is Ovi documented somewhere in the public SDK, like how the QA process of them works, basic policies and things like that ?12:08
djszapi( is not too detailed)12:09
mecedjszapi, I think it's in the development library. Hold on, I was just looking at profanity limitations the other day12:09
SpeedEvilBuy several, resell as 'not working/spares'12:09
mecedjszapi, did you check here:
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artemmawhat is Mobile Internet Radio in the annoucement?12:11
djszapimece: yes12:11
* artemma doesn't remember seeing anything like Mobile Internet Radio in N95012:12
djszapimece: I was actually reading the pages, like this one now: -> but it is not that much information, nothing concrete to me.12:12
mecedjszapi, has some rules about content12:13
djszapiyes, I read that, but imho that is sloppy.12:13
meceyeah I guess. Well I haven't seen anything else12:13
artemmaThat dummy plastic N9 on ebay is funny. It's a pity they don't seem to have a pink one :)12:14
djszapihow good is the Ovi QA nowadays ?12:14
maxwanyone know a way to make a bookmark *before* loading the page itself?12:14
SpeedEvilGo to offline mode, enter URL, go, bookmark?12:16
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Arkenoi wtf, n9 does not have OTG?12:20
RST38hOr they do not have N912:20
djszapimece: so they basically say a submitter should consider, but they do not say how they prevent direct attackers.12:20
dm8tbrArkenoi: not mechanically and not in the original software12:20
djszapiwhat a submitter*12:20
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dm8tbrArkenoi: although this looks like a 'custom' cable with a micro-b connector12:21
dm8tbrusually for host it would be micro-a12:21
mecedjszapi, apparently not. Seems it's on a trial and error basis12:22
Arkenoi wow, that's funny: real n950 accessory (see, it actually looks like it was designed to fit n950)12:22
rantomhiemanshu: Guess who started to search for a retailer now to buy it from?12:23
djszapimece: my only concern is that they force us into this non-qa repository without either 1) Improved quality or 2) Providing enough "power" for the community to have a repository (like extra was for the N900)12:23
SpeedEvilArkenoi: Oh wow.12:23
SpeedEvilArkenoi: Also known as 'you don't really want this USB port on that board, do you'12:23
leinirffs... here's me trying to set up an ovi store publisher account... and getting an error 500 when i get to payment :P12:24
mecedjszapi, "extras" for harmattan is in progress.12:24
djszapimece: except that what I said. It does not have enough power (proper signing, source origin and credentials)12:25
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mecedjszapi, mhm12:27
djszapihi wazd! :)12:27
djszapimmm, an interesting comparison (I guess it is a bit new yet, thus it is not that proper full list yet):
wazddjszapi: I'm a terrible person, I know :D12:28
djszapimece: also, what I miss from Ovi is the granularity. Right away, I had to put 20+ packages into one application in able to push it there.12:29
ArkenoiI have to admit harmattan twitter client sucks big time12:30
Arkenoiat least current beta does12:30
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Arkenoithere is dropbox app in development iirc12:31
djszapiit should probably be a community anyways, not one's personal page.12:31
djszapicommunity page*12:32
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vladestis there is top-like tool but with GUI?12:34
macmaNsup alls12:37
macmaNgonna try one last time12:37
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macmaNanyone here successfully tethering 3g over BT with beta2?12:37
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djszapiArkenoi: do you have a link by hand for that dropbox startings ?12:39
Arkenoicannot find it :-( bumped into it somewhere on the web a few days ago12:42
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djszapi -> The closest I found this is from, but it is not dropbox either.12:42
djszapifrom Ash*12:42
Arkenoinope, it was some dropbox app announce12:43
djszapivnc is also there on N912:44
djszapiactually even vpngui12:44
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infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
kimjujust got a sms(-spam) from Elisa/Saunalahti (finnish operator) that their stores will have N9 on 13.10.12:50
maxwSpeedEvil: re bookmark, that doesn't seem to work. what am I missing?12:50
SpeedEvilmaxw: Sorry - I hadn't tried it12:50
Arkenoione-huge-plain-page application menu in harmattan is clearly designed for people that use no more that 3-5-10 apps on their phones :-(12:50
grifolders are apple-patented?12:51
maxwSpeedEvil: basically, I'm trying to bookmark the bbc radio2 non-microsoft link on but there are no options to bookmark, and if I click it, it opens a media player which also doesn't seem to have any way to 'bookmark' it.12:53
SpeedEvilmaxw: That actually works?12:54
SpeedEvilI gave up when iplayer said foad.12:54
maxwSpeedEvil: yeah, the link plays in media player...but no way to make it remember. n900 would, but not n950 :/12:55
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SpeedEvilIf I click the non-windows link, it downloads a pls file12:58
SpeedEviland that's all12:58
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djszapiIs there a test interface for OVI or proper documentation what they actually did about QA and defenses ?12:59
hiemanshuyou can play the pls file in an app from Ovi Store12:59
hiemanshuMeeRadio or something12:59
djszapiI would like to know whether how hard to make a spam application which simply gets into.12:59
hiemanshumaxw: ^13:00
SpeedEvilmaxw: what device - and what version?13:00
maxwwhat's a pls file?13:00
djszapiI am having couple of basic ideas for an attack and I am wondering whether OVI defends against those.13:00
hiemanshumaxw: playlist13:00
maxwah, indeed...but it works on n950 anyway13:01
sivangso, where do I buy an N9 if I live in Israel? :)13:01
djszapisivang: why not N10 ? ;013:01
maxwhiemanshu: I guess I need to make an icon and edit some .desktop file...13:02
sivangdjszapi: is it released already the N10 ? :)13:03
hiemanshumaxw: what exactly are you trying to do?13:03
maxwI want to make some kind of 'quick launch' for bbc radio 2.13:03
maxwa bookmark might work13:03
sivangnot that I will have the money to buy it :)13:03
sivangdjszapi: ^^13:03
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SpeedEvilmaxw: doesn't here.13:04
maxwideally an icon on the app launcher13:04
maxwSpeedEvil: eh?13:04
maxwSpeedEvil: where/what is 'here'?13:04
djszapisivang: you know, you already have to have a new stuff while publishing one :p13:04
alteregomaxw: a bookmark is basically an icon in the launcher :P13:05
maxwah, well, because that link opens in the media player, there is no option to make an icon in the launcher13:05
SpeedEvilmaxw: Doesn't work with latest image.13:06
SpeedEvilmaxw: latest public image13:06
maxwSpeedEvil: it does on the one I'm using...what is it? beta or something?13:06
maxwSpeedEvil: it 'downloads' something, then when you launch the downloaded file, it opens in the media player13:07
maxw^something^the playlist, I suppose13:07
alteregoInteresting to know where support until 2015 came from, that sounds insane ..13:07
artemmajust got a text message from my GSM operator. N9 will be in Elisa's stores in Finland on Oct 1313:07
hiemanshumaxw: install MeeRadio, add the BBC pls file to it13:08
hiemanshutwo clicks and done :)13:08
SpeedEvilmaxw: Odd.13:08
* artemma doesn't like MeeRadio - it was never able to play without weird sound interruptions for me13:08
maxwhiemanshu: where do I get the bbc pls file?13:08
hiemanshuartemma: worked just fine for me, I use it every day13:08
SpeedEvilmaxw: When I go to the media player, and select it, it does nothing13:08
hiemanshumaxw: <SpeedEvil> If I click the non-windows link, it downloads a pls file13:09
maxwSpeedEvil: 'select it' - I don't select on just opens and plays13:09
artemmahiemanshu: maybe I was unfortunate then, will try again.13:10
maxwhiemanshu: I'm listening to it now13:10
dimitarhas anybody actually gotten bbc[1234] to work with meeradio?13:10
dimitarmy experience is that bbc plays some sily tricks13:10
maxwdimitar: I tried it a while ago, but was using the direct bbc links and it didn't work...want to know how too13:10
jussiartemma: I just got same message :)13:10
dimitartry mplayer
dimitaras it is13:11
dimitardon't download the pls13:11
dimitarthe thing they do is13:11
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dimitarbbc sends you some temporary link13:12
Venemo_N950anyone got a production N9 yet?13:12
dimitarsomething very long13:12
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maxwI saw someone on the bus with one yesterday13:12
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dimitarand mostly different every time you try to acces13:12
maxwa middle-aged woman - I was a little surprised13:12
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: there is an unboxing video on youtube13:12
hiemanshumaxw: sure it wasn't a chinese fake? :P13:13
Venemo_N950maxw, did you check what the fw version of the final N9 image is?13:13
maxwin Finland...don't think so :p13:13
maxwI just tried the pls link with meeradio and it doesn't work - stream error. This appears to be a text file. I guess I should look inside that file and use a url from there.13:14
artemmamaxw, middle-aged women work for Nokia too. Finland is a country of equal opportunities :)13:14
djszapimaxw: there are many middle ages women at Nokia relevant to the project.13:14
maxwyeah, I know, I know13:14
maxwsexist *and* ageist at the same time - shame on me13:14
maxwanyway, I would have expected it of a geek-type, like myself13:15
dimitarmaxw: try with mplayer on some regular computer, you will see what happens13:15
maxwI guess it really *is* a fashion phone :)13:15
artemmacan we somehow sue several MEur from maxw, by being sexist and ageist in front of us..?13:15
SpeedEvilmaxw: odd.13:16
artemmaoh maybe we just make him buy our apps. The cool ones certainly13:16
maxwis there a way to copy text from the terminal?13:16
Venemo_N950maxw, so did you check the fw version?13:16
maxwon the n9 I saw on the bus? no...13:16
djszapimaxw: if the woman looked cool, you should care about the woman, not the phone come on ...13:18
maxwI'm not a lesbian :p13:19
artemmasince the only thing he noticed besides N9 was her middle-age, I guess she was not cool by maxw's standards13:19
djszapimaxw: ahhh that way, soooooorry! :p13:19
Venemo_N950maxw, it was a mistake13:20
maxwhow to copy/paste text from the terminal?13:20
* artemma wonders if his nick somehow indicates his sex13:20
hiemanshumaxw: you cannot13:20 there a gui editor available yet?13:20
hiemanshuKhtEditor I think13:21
artemmamaxw, most of the time I ssh to N950 from desktop. There you can copy, paste, whatever13:21
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maxwyeah, can't do that at the moment13:22
artemmawell, if you really need to get text out of terminal you can redirect output to file13:22
artemmamaybe it could be opened by notes then13:22
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mecekhteditor is sweet13:30
maxwartemma: I can't seem to find where the notes files are stored - it doesn't seem to allow selecting files, or am I missing something13:32
artemmamaxw, that was just an idea, sorry13:33
artemmaI *think* harmattan includes some *nix text editor13:33
artemmalike vi maybe13:33
artemmabut I never used anything like that13:33
artemmaso cannot comment13:33
maxwneed gvim to be able to copy/paste in to the UI, I think...13:33
maxwI didn't notice it, since I would have noticed it due to using vim "all the time"13:34
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maxwartemma: I make a note with 'Bla' in it, thinking it would make a file that contained 'Bla', but 'find' couldn't find it.13:36
griUhm, when entering dist-upgrade on my device: The following packages will be REMOVED:13:36
gri  mp-harmattan-rm680-pr13:36
gri :D13:36
griargh, newlines13:36
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maxwoh, well - give up with this bookmark thing until I can get in on ssh.13:39
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meceI wounder if we should expect final firmware for N950 now that N9 is shipping...13:42
alteregoWas it decided that you have to pay the 1EUR for Ovi registration?13:43
artemmamece, I'd say it depends way more on whether the Nokia boss responsible for firmwares decides to push for a decent work. IMHO there's not too much financial reason for Nokia to go through releasing and testing of yet another FW13:44
hiemanshumece: I'd say no13:44
artemmathat would certainly be good for attracting developers, but IMHO many in Nokia feel like it's lost already13:44
alteregomece: The N950 will get continued updates in line with N9.13:45
* artemma would be glфв ещ иу цкщтп13:45
* artemma would be glad to be wrong13:45
mecealterego, thanks.13:45
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hiemanshuartemma: source?13:45
mecewhat I actually meant is that is the current N950 firmware the sane(ish) as the final N9 firmware?13:45
artemmaalterego: yes, it's one year13:45
alteregoSomeone tweeted earlier about the N9 being supported until 2015, that I think is BS ;)13:45
hiemanshualterego: source?13:45
artemmahiemanshu: only my own speculations based on my past in Nokia13:45
meceKlas Ström, head of Nokia Sweden13:46
alteregohiemanshu: @klasstrom13:46
alteregoWait, what?13:46
alteregoHe's Nokia?13:46
mecetweeted @klasstrom: Nokia will provide software updates, care and services support for the #NokiaN9 until at least 2015 #MeeGo #Harmattan13:46
hiemanshualterego: I was looking for a source for <alterego> mece: The N950 will get continued updates in line with N9. :P13:46
alteregoWell, from what I know of the Harmattan roadmap that seems very strange indeed.13:46
artemmaoh, if there's significant N9 update, updating N950 makes sense13:46
alteregohiemanshu: can't tell you sorry.13:47
hiemanshualterego: if its from a decent source, and not just another rumour, so its cool :)13:47
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alteregohiemanshu: it's decent, but tbh, these days things change, and we get screwed, so you can never be 100% sure, but that is the general idea at the moment ;)13:48
alteregoWow, if they plan on supporting the N9 until 2015, that means they'll probably get to something like PR5.4 :P13:49
hiemanshualterego: ofc, but having some say 'Yes' atleast makes us happy for a bit :P13:49
alteregoPersonally though, I plan on obtaining an N9, using that and using the N950 for MeeGo CE13:49
meceok Klas Ström is "Head of Portfolio Management at Nokia"13:49
alteregoWe will always have below N9 UX wrt to keyboard and no NFC.13:49
alteregoAngry Birds is a prime example of that ..13:50
mecealterego, sounds like my plan. I'll get N9 once my N900 is fully paid for. End of october.13:50
alteregomece: :)13:50
alteregoI wonder if Quims offer of N950 for N9 trade is going to happen.13:50
mecealterego, I wouldn't want to do that.13:50
alteregoI personally wont do that, but it might be something someone wants to do :)13:51
alteregoI'd imagine if someone wanted to play with NFC, and can't afford to get an N9 it might be a good idea.13:51
meceI want an N9 for general use and N950 for hacking and making people jealous.13:52
alteregoAnd I'd like the N9 screen ..13:52
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alteregoI wonder if anyone has totalled their N950 yet.13:52
mecealterego, I'd like the N9 radio reception13:52
alteregoIt'd be funny to see an #WasN950Club13:52
meceN9 is shipping in Lebanon :)13:52
alteregomece: oh yes, that too :D13:52
artemmaWhy does harmattan twitter app know nothing about twitter list13:55
* artemma doesn't like his notifications be spammed with dozens of updates from contacts I don't want to watch every minute13:55
jreznikmece: sounds like a good plan to have one as phone and one to make people jealous (and for playing, sorry, development with reflashing etc.)13:55
* artemma wants Gravity for harmattan13:55
DocScrutinizermaxw: notes is as useless in concept of "no pathnames, no filenames - users don't want to deal with that" as you'd reasonably expect for an OS that is following this inane paradigm13:55
alteregoI suppose with Klas Strom's tweet you have to read inbetween the lines, doesn't mean software updates, just means could include software updates, care and services support :)13:55
meceartemma, I've always wondered, what is so great about gravity?13:56
maxwDocScrutinizer: yeah, but with n900, you could find the files somehow...are they no longer on the filesystem or something. in sqlite or something?13:56
mecealterego, aye13:56
DocScrutinizermaxw: I dunno, and I don't care. Notes is *completely* useless13:56
maxwDocScrutinizer: well, it seems I must agree :/ in this case anyway13:57
artemmamece, I am not sure I could outline one big point about gravity. It's a multitude of small things that are very well done. On S60 it had a big plus for being very fast compared to usual apps, but that was only the initial push13:57
DocScrutinizer[2011-09-27 02:45:36] <DocScrutinizer> same zealots that teach us that no app should bother about filesystem and pathnames anymore, as some magic tracker will offer "just the right files" for each app, each usecase, always13:57
DocScrutinizer[2011-09-27 02:45:44] <DocScrutinizer> what a hybris13:57
DocScrutinizer[2011-09-27 02:48:12] <DocScrutinizer> oh, missed that one in my top-10 of the worst ideas and concepts of the past, resurrected in harmattan13:57
DocScrutinizer[2011-09-27 02:50:19] <DocScrutinizer> goes right on top, even before missing close button on #3 and missing c&p and missing homescreen sharing #213:58
meceartemma, well I'd argue that TwimGo is pretty smooth.13:59
artemmamece, indeed, TwimGo is a good competitor. Not as good as gravity yet, but with potential13:59
meceartemma, what does gravity do that twimgo doesn't? (I don't actually use TwimGo, I've just tested it briefly and heard opinions)14:00
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artemmamece, I didn't really care to record my impressions.. :/ I think I remember that it was very bad with N950 keyboard VS on screen keyboard (opening at wrong times), then it wasn't too good with the lists VS everybody (too many alerts about what I don't want to be alerted) and most of all it was closing-restarting often14:01
meceartemma, ok :)14:02
artemmayeah, I think it was closing-restarting that actually made me stop trying. Whenever I swype out and then start using it again, it was going to main screen and loading tweets from scratch14:03
meceartemma, ok :)14:04
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DocScrutinizerlemme summarize my notions about HARM: it's very polished to give that first-use blows-you-outa-your-socks effect. After 3 months of usage you won't have any more wow-effect on cheap eyecandy and UI designs, you start to swear about each detail, like missing groups (aka directories ;-P) for the meanwhile 900 notes you've taken with your 10/d diary entries mixed up with shopping lists, terrible poems and whatnot else. Virtually every14:10
DocScrutinizeraspect of the GUI is designed with this initial wow in mind and neglecting workflow optimizations14:10
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JaffaMorning, all14:11
alteregoOoo, just had an idea, I wonder if I can get some really small neat rubber feat to stick on the N950 ..14:11
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DocScrutinizeralterego: use some sticky tape that has the properties you want14:13
DocScrutinizere.g. the one you wrap around tennis racks and racing bike handles14:13
alteregoIf I use double sided I could mount it to a wall14:14
mecealterego, there are those things you put on small doors so they don't make loud noises when you close them14:14
mecealterego, hehe14:14
alteregoDocScrutinizer: yeah, like insulation tape.14:14
DocScrutinizerwhatever meets your reqirements14:14
DocScrutinizerI just think sticky tape is thin enough, unlike "feet"14:14
meceJaffa, o/14:15
DocScrutinizeryeah, hi Jaffa14:15
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alteregoWhere's the community repo?14:49
alteregoHandy would be the deb line :)14:49
alteregoThanks :)14:50
djszapior is there a newer ?14:50
djszapimmm, nope, the QA repo did not still proceed.14:55
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faenilhey everyone :D15:16
sivanghey faenil15:16
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djszapihow are you, faenil ?15:18
faenilalright ;)15:18
faenilwaiting for lesson to being at uni :D15:18
faenilAlgo 215:18
faenilwhat bout u?15:19
djszapialright. :) Bit disappointed the isle of open source (They rejected almost everybody with talk proposal I am aware of), but that is okay.15:19
sivangohh Algo 215:20
sivangwhich algo's are discussed?15:20
sivangdjszapi: isle of open source rejected most of the talks?15:21
sivangdjszapi: I actually proposed a talk but did not get any response.15:21
DocScrutinizerI just learned that beta2 NOLO is booting unsigned kernels, just shows a warning15:21
djszapime neither, but my friend asked them more times and they said him : "too ready software" lol15:21
nibblerDocScrutinizer: i hope it stays that way. although i use the stock image, it's a nice option to have.15:25
sivangdjszapi: too ready softrware?15:25
sivangdjszapi: I acrtually proposed soemthing about cloud computing and CouchDB15:25
Venemo_N950hey djszapi15:26
djszapiVenemo_N950 o/ :)15:26
Venemo_N950how're you today?15:26
djszapiVenemo_N950: everything is alright. Do you plan to put irc-chatter into Ovi store btw ?15:26
faenildjszapi: I'm sorry the talk got refused...hadn't it already been accepted?15:27
djszapifaenil: for the Linux mobile summit, both talks were accepted, but this is a different event in Malta.15:27
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sivanghey Venemo_N950 !15:27
DocScrutinizerI'm pondering to purposely taint the binary kernel (edit one char in uname -a string) and see how bootup and general system operation differs15:28
sivangdjszapi: linux mobile summit in Malta as well?15:28
sivangDocScrutinizer: would not that allow using a different kernel without aegis as well?15:28
faenildjszapi: oh ok...15:28
Venemo_N950djszapi, dunno, should I?15:29
DocScrutinizerbut if aegis isn't too stupid, it will notice the device is in open mode due to kernel not being correctly signed/hashed, and will stop pestering users/devels15:29
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faenilsivang: Algo 2, approximate string matching15:29
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djszapisivang: the linux mobile summit is in Oulu:
djszapiVenemo_N950: yeah, if you can package it together with the library.15:31
sivangfaenil: oh yummy15:31
Venemo_N950hey sivang, what's up?15:31
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sivangVenemo_N950: very good actually :)15:31
sivangVenemo_N950: are you using your irc client right now on the N950?15:31
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Venemo_N950sivang, bingo15:33
DocScrutinizerplease compare for beta2:15:33
Venemo_N950sivang, what else? :)15:33
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# md5sum /dev/mtd0ro15:33
DocScrutinizerde28e7e3d97e4122423bb5d6f2b3f587  /dev/mtd0ro15:33
Venemo_N950djszapi, why is that necessary?15:33
sivangVenemo_N950: making my django models for 2 apps of mine15:34
djszapiVenemo_N950: because people could have access easier to it.15:34
sivangVenemo_N950: and also working on creating an handset client for UX feedback for N915:34
sivangVenemo_N950: as per CrowdQuick15:34
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Venemo_N950sivang, yeah I think I remember15:34
Venemo_N950djszapi, maybe I should link statically?15:35
faenilfollowing the lessons, cya later guys15:36
sivangDocScrutinizer: I'm back at using Django for the backend btw, it seems the sanest approach15:36
sivangDocScrutinizer: and it has 3 rest wrapper projects to choose from :)15:36
djszapiVenemo_N950: up to you.15:36
Venemo_N950isn't django some python crap?15:37
Venemo_N950djszapi, that'd make it easier to package15:37
hiemanshuVenemo_N950: python isnt crap15:37
djszapiVenemo_N950: django is a very powerful and well documented framework. I liked it.15:38
djszapiVenemo_N950: well, we got the source code as it was into our project earlier, but static linking works, too. Really up to you.15:38
artemmadjango isn't crap, it's just not something you use for your site out of the box. It's more of a powerful framework rather than a ready to use CMS15:38
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djszapiVenemo_N950: iirc, this is written in django:
Venemo_N950the emphasis was on python15:39
Venemo_N950isn't django based on python?15:39
DocScrutinizersivang: nfi what's django15:39
djszapiit is15:39
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Venemo_N950so it's just another interpreted crap15:40
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DocScrutinizermd5sum /dev/mtd0ro  ?  anybody?15:55
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, moment15:56
sivangDocScrutinizer: a python web frameowrk15:57
sivangDjango is pure love.15:57
sivang5 minutes to have your backend up and running willing to accepts handset client requests and do stuff on them.15:58
sivangnibbler: ?15:58
djszapiI think we were also doing AUR2 in django for archlinux15:58
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, can't copypaste but it's differebt from nibbler's15:58
nibblerthat was for V1.2011.34-2_PR_RM68015:59
djszapi;a=summary -> oh yes, it was a nifty django project. :)15:59
DocScrutinizer[2011-09-27 14:33:49] <DocScrutinizer> RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# md5sum /dev/mtd0ro15:59
DocScrutinizer[2011-09-27 14:33:49] <DocScrutinizer> de28e7e3d97e4122423bb5d6f2b3f587  /dev/mtd0ro15:59
berndhs9ac9e8fcbc174ca923185cb54f612492  /dev/mtd0ro16:00
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# strings /dev/mtd0ro |grep "NOLO X"|head -n 116:02
DocScrutinizerNOLO Xloader Harmattan v2.0.37 (May 25 2011)16:02
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sivangdjszapi: what is AUR2?16:04
djszapiit was targetted few years ago for the AUR replacement. (AUR is like PPA on Ubuntu)16:04
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sivangdjszapi: but for arch?16:04
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, sh: strings not found16:04
DocScrutinizers/NOLO X/NOLO O/ -> Nokia OMAP Loader Harmattan v2.0.37 (May 25 2011)16:05
sivangDocScrutinizer: so you managed to boot unsigned kernelk?16:05
DocScrutinizerforget sthe strings16:05
DocScrutinizersivang: not me16:05
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, how do I get these strings?16:06
DocScrutinizercat  /dev/mtd0ro |grep "NOLO X"|head -n 116:06
djszapisivang: yeah16:07
sivangwhat does XLoader means?16:07
sivangdjszapi: nice16:07
sivangdjszapi: comapred to learning curve with Plone/ Zope Django is much like cheating.16:07
sivangdjszapi: e.g. too damn easy ;)16:07
sivangdjszapi: I am also going to use piston or the other project for REST16:08
Venemo_N950NOLO Xloader Harmattan v2.0.49 aug 2216:08
djszapisivang: agree, django is good, and even well-documented.16:08
sivangit is well document16:08
sivangdjszapi: it might be even easier to work with that rather than with Piston16:08
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: thanks16:08
djszapiyeah, it was very well documented also years ago.16:09
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sivangdjszapi: I guess that is why it is so popular and google use it for all of their mobile apps16:12
sivangdjszapi: as a backend, that is.16:12
sivangdjszapi: app engine is based on Django, BTW16:12
sivangand FYI16:12
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, yw16:12
djszapiyep. I wrote a webserver in C though :p16:12
djszapiactually asm + C for an arm project in the past.16:12
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Venemo_N950djszapi, you can write a webserver in C in <100 lines16:15
Venemo_N950been there, done that16:15
djszapiit was about 4000-5000 LOC16:15
Venemo_N950i guess yours was more complex :)16:16
djszapiyeah, but way much faster than any router's web configuration service. I think they do not write it in low-level C.16:17
sivangdjszapi: nice16:17
sivangdjszapi: they do it in perl last time I checked16:18
sivangdjszapi: e.g: router interface16:18
sivangso djszapi  and Venemo_N950 , my set of Hungarian friend is growing :)16:18
Venemo_N950sivang, :)16:19
djszapisivang: regret, you cannot come to the Qt Developer Day.16:20
sivangVenemo_N950: we should have an KDE sprint in Budapest somet day16:20
sivangdjszapi: I wish I could, there might be an option still, but nothing is sure yet.16:20
* sivang will hold fingers16:20
sivangVenemo_N950: will you be in dev days?16:20
sivangdjszapi: problem is if I get to Munchen again, I will try to leave less beer for others :-p16:21
sivangdjszapi: Munchen's been is out of this world.16:21
Venemo_N950sivang, can't afford the flight even16:21
sivangVenemo_N950: same here16:28
Venemo_N950sivang :(16:28
djszapiVenemo_N950: how about stop ? :p /me hides16:28
Venemo_N950djszapi, can't afford accomodations either. and not willing to sleep on the streets16:29
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djszapicouch surfing :p16:30
Venemo_N950also, dunno how much the entry fee is.16:31
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djszapiVenemo_N950: tell them, if it is not free for you, you will make gtk/glib better =)16:32
leinirbah, he'd never be able to keep a straight face saying that ;)16:33
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sivangdjszapi: hahahah16:33
sivangabout gtk/glib16:33
sivangdjszapi: the desktop is dead anyways :-p16:33
Venemo_N950djszapi .........16:34
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Venemo_N950djszapi, yiu have a nice sense of humor16:34
* sivang likes how easy it is to get up to speed with Qt using QML.16:34
djszapiVenemo_N950: btw, do you use KDE ?16:35
Venemo_N950djszapi, unfortunately not16:35
Venemo_N950djszapi, tried once or twice, had issues, switched back to gnome16:36
Venemo_N950but I personally dislike gtk16:36
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MohammadAGI like gtk, I hate writing stuff in it16:38
Venemo_N950heh, yeah16:39
MohammadAGKDE rapes my laptop battery, but after some upgrade gnome broke, and unity's unbearable16:39
Venemo_N950gnome 3 is not bad16:40
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MohammadAGGNOME 3, unity etc16:40
MohammadAGi dislike them all16:40
djszapivala is a good project imho.16:40
MohammadAGthey're good for netbooks or touchscreens, but not full sized devices16:40
Venemo_N950I need to leave now16:40
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MohammadAGdjszapi, yeah16:41
* leinir has submitted first app to ovi...16:50
leinirlet's see how many hits i get on the QA ;)16:50
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sivangMohammadAG dude! how's you today?17:01
sivangleinir: congrets! I'm getting there as well17:01
leinircheers! :)17:02
leinir <-- that app, if you wanna see ;)17:02
leinirgotta run into town for a spell - bbiab!17:03
sivangleinir: ttfn17:03
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MohammadAGsivang, back in jerusalem17:11
sivangMohammadAG: at least is is colder :)17:15
sivangVenemo_webchat: re17:15
sivangMohammadAG: still in TLV, boiling hot17:15
sivangMohammadAG: I should go to the Uni mountain in Haifa, chill and cozy there17:16
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griArghhh, any git champion in here?17:52
griI accidentally did "checkout master" while my branch was ahead - now the changes are gone - is there a way to switch back to the working copy like it was before?17:53
djszapiafaik nope, you did not commit them17:56
griI did commit them but master was not at this position17:57
djszapisince it is not in the commit, not in the working tree, not even in the index.17:57
* DocScrutinizer adores git intuitive and simple UI ¡17:57
matrixxgri: git reflog is your friend17:57
djszapigri: how about git reset HEAD@{1} ?17:57
griI wanted to push them to gitorious but master did not move17:58
djszapido not make my command without a backup!!17:58
djszapiit is just an idea :)17:58
griwell, ok :)17:58
w00tgit reflog to the rescue17:59
grireset head did the trick already18:00
grinow qgit shows my changes and it seems master is now where I want it :)18:00
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grithank you all :)18:01
matrixxgri: np :)18:02
alteregoOh well, looks like I need to install the proper Harmattan SDK18:03
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alteregoThis might take a while.18:04
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djszapigri: mmm, just checked out of the curiosity, and it seems my command also works for that situation :p18:07
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Andy1210can i publish non qt app to ovi store?18:18
MohammadAGis there a way to trigger tracker reindexing for ONE file?18:18
djszapiAndy1210: I read different section in the ovi store policy guide for Qt apps.18:19
djszapiAndy1210: for instance, they mention Java too, but a few others as well in the Technical Requirements section (2)18:21
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rm_workwas there a release of FBreader for harmattan yet? i don't see it on packrat :(18:23
djszapirm_work: It is not in the community repository either yet18:24
SpeedEvilrm_work: Ther was sa deb someone put up that worked quite well18:26
SpeedEvilI lost it when flashing, and should go over backscroll18:26
djszapirm_work: There is a link there.18:27
djszapirm_work: if you need the source:
rm_workthanks again18:28
rm_workgot it18:28
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gridjszapi: So ovi only allows me one package? If I want to use libqjson, I have to link it statically to not conflict with other packages?18:37
djszapiyeah either statically or build it from source with your project, but I would go for static linkage.18:38
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djszapimake sure it works, test it properly.18:38
grihmm, sad that libqjson-dev in rzr's repository does not contain the .a file18:38
MohammadAGgri, I think qjson is built in18:39
MohammadAGaka on the N950 by default18:40
MohammadAGmight be mistaken18:40
hiemanshugri: thats for static support right18:40
sivangMohammadAG: I think so as well, I saw at least one social thingo using it, failed to remember which18:40
griMohammadAG: Havent found it on the device / in madde18:40
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djszapigri: is this also bad ?
MohammadAGgri, /usr/lib/
MohammadAGii  libqjson0               0.7.1-1+maemo4+0m6      qt-based library that maps JSON data to QVariant objects18:41
MohammadAGworks fine for sociality, didn't have to install it18:41
djszapiMohammadAG: that is not the point, look for static instead.18:41
sivangdjszapi: /pool/ reminds of me Debian goodness in Maemo18:41
djszapiah sorry, I was wrong18:41
djszapiit is builtin.18:41
MohammadAGdjszapi, why? it's on device18:41
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griMohammadAG: Damn, you're right18:41
MohammadAGthat's a bad thing? :P18:41
djszapigri: just grep it from the link I pasted.18:41
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djszapiand you will be alright18:41
MohammadAGstill haven't got models though18:42
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griI was looking for a "libqjson" folder in include instead of the pkgconfig one18:42
djszapigri: if you somehow do not have it18:42
gridjszapi: I have it, I was just too blind to see it18:42
djszapisivang: sorry ?18:42
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djszapigri: but thanks for your enlightment, we should remove that from the community repository.18:42
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sivangdjszapi: pool/harmattan-beta/free/q/qjson18:44
sivangdjszapi: unlike meego18:44
sivangdjszapi: I miss .debs :)18:45
djszapimm, it would be nice if they provide an SDK package changelog that we can check out and cleaning the community repository up consistently according to that instead of catching up sometimes some duplication because of the quickly evolving SDK.18:45
leinirew, .deb :P18:46
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sivangleinir: :)18:46
leinirmy binary blob with meta info is totally better than your binary blob with meta info ;)18:46
djszapisivang: Yeah, I like debian packaging, and especially how much they care about the API, BC and other breakages.18:46
sivangdjszapi: same here18:47
hiemanshuRPM FTW!18:47
djszapinobody else cares about that and could gently manage the continous plasma and other packages for instance.18:47
sivangleinir: Well, I know this blobl and it allows me cute things in terms of ABI, like djszapi said18:47
leinirhow does .deb do that? surely that's a tooling issue18:47
Andy1210now i registered to ovi puplisher program, i can publish non qt app (deb file), but ony one file! How can i upload multiple file for same project?18:48
sivangleinir: I forgot how, perhaps RPM does this as well :) but I am more used to .debs :)18:49
djszapiit not tooling issue, it is just a fundamental policy that others do not really care about.18:49
MohammadAGRPM sucks, but let's take that argument to #meego :p18:49
sivangdjszapi: care to remind me please? :)18:49
djszapilook at my kdelibs package on Harmattan and y ou will see.18:49
sivangdjszapi: can you find me a link to the src pkg?18:50
sivang*please :)18:51
sivangleinir: I think what djszapi means is that , by actually having a policy that forces some stuff in the dependency policy18:51
sivangleinir: memory starts to get back to me :)18:52
rantomNokia Link is out18:52
djszapiit is very simple. If plasma decides in the same major release (as they did few times) to break the interface, debian will not change to the new interface, and say who cares about the applications depending an the old version18:53
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sivangwhat's Nokia link?18:53
leinirdjszapi, sivang: Yes, but that, again, is just a policy... it has nothing to do with the particular binary blob you happen to be carrying the stuff in :P18:53
djszapiit has.18:53
djszapiyou have different packages actually.18:53
leinirsivang: it is a syncing application which doesn't run on linux ;)18:53
sivangleinir: oh, ok. Don't care :-p18:54
djszapieven from the same debian folder.18:54
djszapithat is something you cannot do at other place, and you /can/ do that with one debian folder in some cases.18:55
sivangdjszapi: oh right, create multiple binary package from the same source!18:55
sivangdjszapi: multiarch FTW18:55
leinirso... again, rpm does this just fine (i have done it, so don't start ;) )18:56
djszapiit is not about rpm, you slight misunderstand it18:56
sivangdjszapi: ^18:56
djszapithis policy is clearly missing from meego, what debian does, and how I try to act on my harmattan packages.18:57
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djszapiand distros like fedora /never/ splits anything18:58
djszapi(so it is impossible for them, I think, to handle this)18:58
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leinirThat's what i'm saying - blame where blame applies, it has NOTHING AT ALL to do with rpm vs. deb, and everything to do with specific distributions choosing one type of policy or another18:59
djszapiyou were only saying .deb19:00
djszapiif you read back (actually I thought you were reading what I wrote), I was speaking about debian packaging.19:00
djszapiyou were even saying it is tooling issue :)19:01
djszapi18:49 < djszapi> it not tooling issue, it is just a fundamental policy that others do not really care about.19:01
MohammadAGmy app segfaults for no reasno19:01
djszapiMohammadAG: mtf ?19:02
MohammadAG#0  0x43e9a4c4 in ?? () from /usr/lib/
MohammadAG#1  0x43e9b520 in MSceneManager::appearSceneWindow(MSceneWindow*, MSceneWindow::DeletionPolicy) ()19:02
MohammadAG   from /usr/lib/
leinirdjszapi: no, i was talking to sivang - not you.19:02
djszapileinir: does not matter, it is clearly not a tooling issue :)19:02
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MohammadAGdjszapi, any ideas?19:05
djszapiCould you please send the whole gdb and valgrind output (ideally a snippet reproducing the issue) ?19:07
MohammadAGwhole gdb?19:07
djszapiyeah, thread backtrace19:09
djszapibut I prefer valgrind with enough deep settings over gdb.19:09
MohammadAGdjszapi, code has no mistakes19:10
djszapican you send the code ?19:10
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djszapimmm, weird as it had crashed before the main in the initialization stage.19:11
djszapias if*19:11
MohammadAGqDebug() line returns true19:12
djszapiit is a bit hard without debug symbols.19:13
MohammadAGfriendsPage is a QPointer<FriendsPage>19:13
djszapi -> cannot you install debug symbols ?19:13
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djszapiThe null pointers are quite likely due to optimizations. apart from the very last frame one often has null pointer in backtraces for completely valid objects19:14
MohammadAGpoint is19:14
MohammadAGnew FriendsPage() is returning NULL rather than an instance19:14
frals    MApplicationPage::createContent();19:17
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MohammadAGwhat about it?19:17
MohammadAGit doesn't segfault at that19:18
MohammadAGit segfaults on the appear line19:18
MohammadAGand that line works fine in other classes19:18
djszapiyour dbebug line is also telling there is a null pointer. erm, that's, well, interesting19:18
fralsbut your constructor is not returning a valid pointer, or wasnt that the problem?19:18
MohammadAGfrals, yes19:19
MohammadAGI removed everything from my constructor, and removed createContent()19:19
Mek_nothing is assigned to friendsPage19:19
MohammadAGbasically it's an empty page subclass now19:20
Mek_== vs =19:20
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MohammadAGoh shit19:21
* MohammadAG headdesks19:21
MohammadAGI deleted the whole class :/19:22
djszapiweird that, gcc does not scream19:22
djszapiso that there is no effect on a check without having any deal with the result.19:22
gridoes the ovi store have some kind of callback when an user "buys" an application? I mean the apple appstore has such a function which does a callback on your server with the deviceid19:23
MohammadAGgod I feel stupid19:23
hiemanshuMohammadAG: finally know the truth now? :P19:24
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djszapigcc screams here by using -Wall19:25
hiemanshuofc, if you hit gcc to a Wall, it will scream19:26
MohammadAGQt Creator should be stabbed for now using that then19:26
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djszapiecho "int main() { int a; if (a == 2) a == 3; return 0; }" > main.c && gcc -Wall main.c19:26
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djszapiany idea why "osc up" does not fetch all the packages from the shared community repository ? It does not fetch qjson for instance, thus I cannot remove it. :/19:28
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Daremonaiquick question, do i need UIDs to deploy on ovi store for harmattan devices?19:32
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* sivang tries to understand if he really needs QmlViewer that is boiler printed into every new QML project in Qt Creator19:33
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faenilMohammadAG: I think Daremonai is referring to Symbian deployment19:33
MohammadAGfaenil, and how is this Symbian? :P19:34
Daremonaifaenil, yeah with symbian i use UIDs, i'm asking if i need that as well here19:34
MohammadAGon that note, UIDs are the most retarded concept ever19:34
Daremonaiso i guess that's a no, thanks :)19:34
faenilMohammadAG: ofc this is not symbian, he just wanted to know if there's anything like that to be done on harmattan19:34
MohammadAGDaremonai, no, package names decide if it's the same package or not19:34
MohammadAGafaik on Symbian two packages can be named foo but their UIDs have to differ19:35
Daremonaiperfect, thanks MohammadAG/ faenil19:35
DaremonaiMohammadAG, true19:35
faenilDaremonai: np :)19:35
faenilMohammadAG: yes19:35
faeniland there are three UIDs, one SID, and stuff19:35
MohammadAGtarget capabilities are annoying19:36
djszapiwould be convenient to have a delete link or button on the c-obs pages.19:36
MohammadAGkinda remind me of Aegis manifests though19:36
djszapimainly because osc does not work :/19:37
faenilMohammadAG: I've always found them a good thing instead...19:37
faenilto be*19:37
Daremonaithere's no need for certificates either?19:37
MohammadAGfaenil, then you have a 20 capability certificate?19:37
MohammadAGDaremonai, no19:37
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faenilMohammadAG: yes XD19:37
DaremonaiI like harmattan :)19:37
MohammadAGyou'd like Maemo 5 more, it didn't have manifests :P19:38
MohammadAGk, I think my model's right19:38
Daremonaiwhat about the svg for the icon, does it have to be tinySVG?19:38
MohammadAGnow to figure out how to make the list from it19:38
MohammadAGit can be PNG afaik19:38
faenilsame, tinySVG was for Symbian :D19:38
djszapiMohammadAG: Could you please delete your stuff ? Also, please use separate debian package.19:38
Daremonaii like svgs, but if png works, then great19:39
MohammadAGSVGs can work, but afaik PNGs work :p19:39
MohammadAGdjszapi, Package 'qjson' was removed successfully from project 'home:rzr:harmattan'19:40
MohammadAGdjszapi, got a proper not outdated MList example?19:40
RST38hmoo gentlemen19:41
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djszapiMohammadAG: -> That is my content item creator19:44
djszapithe rest should be up to date in the documentation19:44
Daremonaibtw portrait mode just woudln't work on harmattan, i can't understand why. (tried pagewindowstack/page and used the qmlapplicataionviewer to force orientation to be portrait), just wouldn't work.19:45
djszapiMohammadAG: and then something like this:
alteregoDamnit, what's the command to generate the debian/ directory structure?19:46
* alterego has forgotten.19:46
alteregoI thought it was dh_make or something like that.19:46
djszapidpkg-source -x *.dsc19:47
djszapiif you have the debian files.19:47
alteregoNo, that's not what I asked.19:47
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* alterego googles19:48
MohammadAGdjszapi, so wait, the values have to be a QStringList?19:48
alteregoIt is dh_make, why isn't it installed -_-19:49
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alteregoYes, I know.19:55
alteregoI have used it quite a lot before ..19:55
alteregoJust forgot what it was called ..19:55
djszapiwell, it is obvious it is not installed on the device by default since you do not build the package there.19:56
alteregoWho said anything about the device?19:56
djszapiMohammadAG: AFAIK, should be able to store arbitrary data which is compatible to qvariant.19:56
alteregoI'm talking about scratchbox SDK ..19:56
alteregoYou really do presume too much :P19:56
djszapiwell, it is installed here.19:56
alteregoI just ran the SDK and no, it isn't installed there ..19:57
alteregoSDK installer ..19:57
djszapifile a bug.19:57
alteregoMaybe I will :P19:57
djszapiok, I think it is easier if I file an internal b ug.19:58
alteregoThat would be even better :P19:58
djszapialterego: you are trying the new SDK (just for making sure), aren't you ?19:59
alteregoI just installed the BETA scratchbox SDK from the swipe site.20:00
djszapiok thanks.20:03
MohammadAGdjszapi, k, no segfaults and the model looks fine, just need to figure out how to add items to the model20:04
djszapibeginInsertRows and beginInsertColumns20:05
djszapialso insertRow and insertColumn.20:05
djszapifor instance:
djszapisandst1: is it possible to embed this program into your application that we used at the meego summit in Tampere ?
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sandst1djszapi: yes it's possible, you just have to use the same xml schema. Or then sojourner with the pentabarf schema20:22
djszapisandst1: have you tried to run the meegosummit fi app on N950/N9 ?20:22
sandst1djszapi: nope20:22
djszapiok, let me try.20:23
djszapisandst1: -> not found20:23
djszapithis app would also be very useful for the Qt Developer Day.20:26
djszapisandst1: mmm, we do not have yet mcsp on harmattan20:27
djszapido we need that on Harmattan ?20:27
djszapi -> according to the description, I am not sure.20:28
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djszapiwe probably need to re-package it for Harmattan since it also wants libqt4-maemo5.20:29
sandst1djszapi: yes, that's needed20:30
sandst1repackaging i mean20:30
djszapiwill do as soon as I can get gitorious working.20:30
sandst1djszapi: i moved into using github, it's also in
Daremonaianother quick question about the icon, does it have to be rounded and 80x80 pixels etc. (following the icon guidlines for N9 or is that just 'suggestions' and i could have something squary or new kind of shape/etc.)?20:33
djszapiyeah, that is ideal20:33
Daremonaisorry, i forgot - for the launcher20:33
sandst1Daremonai: all you need is javispedro's icon generator :)
Daremonaisandst1: that is indeed pretty awesome :)20:34
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sandst1Daremonai: yeah, that saved me from crappy icons :)20:35
djszapisandst1: where can I find the debian folder for the debian package ?20:35
djszapicontrol.tar.gz contains only the control file, and I guess we also need a rules, changelog, sources/format and other files.20:36
sandst1djszapi: i was bored and used qt creator's packaging.
sandst1djszapi: ah. no20:37
Daremonaisandst1: any idea if it's safe to use the tool online or are the pictures perma-saved on the host's website?20:37
sandst1Daremonai: ask javispedro :) i guess he isn't collecting people's icons : D20:38
sandst1djszapi: got the correct packaging files at my scratchbox. justasec20:38
sandst1Daremonai: so i'd say it's safe20:39
Daremonaisandst1: cool, thanks :) and thanks javispedro20:39
javispedroDaremonai: I can clear them today if you want to20:39
* RST38h moos at javispedro20:39
javispedromoo RST38h20:39
Daremonaijavispedro: it's fine I guess20:40
djszapisandst1: this is for Harmattan or still Fremantle ?20:40
sandst1djszapi: fremantle20:40
javispedroDaremonai: well, if you want, just tell me and I'll clear them all20:41
javispedrobeen wanting to do it for a while, don't want to convert into a image hosting service =)20:41
djszapi.qtcreator, lol20:41
Daremonaijavispedro :)20:41
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Daremonaijavispedro, i will be using your website for some of my apps, i would want to bother you everytime... maybe you could add a feature like - 'clear currently generated icons' or smth?20:42
Daremonaijavispedro, however, it's a great tool, thanks :)20:43
javispedroit should just happen daily20:43
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Daremonaijavispedro, yeah or that :)20:45
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djszapisandst1: ahhh APPNAME := <Put your package name here>20:48
Daremonaiboo.. in the launcher it just showed me as a red square... why? :(20:49
djszapior give absolute path name to your icon.20:49
djszapi(inside the desktop file)20:49
Daremonaioki, let me try20:50
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djszapisandst1: git-buildpackage is not available on Harmattan :(21:03
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sandst1djszapi: what do you need that for? i used just dpkg-buildpackage21:08
djszapisandst1: that does not generate an orig.tar.gz for you.21:09
djszapigit-buildpackage does.21:09
djszapibut it is a native package with gazillion missing dependencies so I will give it up for now.21:09
griWow, push-notifications actually work on the beta2 image - it's just some effort to get them working :)21:10
sandst1djszapi: ah. ok21:10
djszapiI will just use git archive for now21:10
djszapisandst1: have yo uused plain QML or components ?21:11
sandst1djszapi: plain21:13
djszapiwould be nice if you can rewrite it by using components :p21:14
sandst1djszapi: guess whether that will happen or not :P21:15
djszapiof course! :)21:15
gridjszapi: CAL ERROR: open(/dev/mtd1): Permission denied <-- I see this in my application log21:15
griwhat is mtd1 ?21:15
sandst1djszapi: well. Perhaps for msfi 2012 or whatever the summit will be called :)21:15
MohammadAGgri, wtf is your application doing?21:16
griMohammadAG: Using ovi notifications21:16
MohammadAGwtf are ovi notifications doing with cal21:16
griI have no idea :)21:16
MohammadAGdjszapi, is it bad if I make MBasicListItems and add them manually?21:16
MohammadAGto an MWidget21:17
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Daremonaidjszapi: thanks putting the full path in the .desktop file worked: Icon=/usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/apps/project.png21:25
djszapiMohammadAG: ^21:25
djszapigri: that is really obscure, could you please debug that somehow ? That should really not happen21:26
Daremonaido i just assume it'll work on the N9 since it works on the n950? also am i allowed to put: "assumed to work" without fully tested for the N9 on the ovi store?21:30
gridjszapi: To be honest, this is the notificationsexample from ovi notifications project21:30
griand I have no idea how I should debug without symbols21:31
djszapiDaremonai: I can test it for you, if it is not a long time.21:32
* gri is unable to read assembler *shame*21:32
Daremonaidjszapi, it shouldn't take long21:32
djszapigri: well I asked assembler question from a developer at some interview in the past :) He did not know the answer either :p21:32
djszapiDaremonai: send the package, and the test steps.21:33
djszapi21:33 [freenode] DCC SEND from Daremonai [ port 1024]: speedy_1.0.2_armel.deb [305kB] -> How can I accept it by using irssi ? :p21:33
gridjszapi: I am starting with computer science next week but I heard they teach java, maybe asm still exists for them21:34
Daremonaidjszapi, haha, ok, i'll put it on some website21:34
MohammadAGdjszapi, :/21:34
* gri needs a title to earn more money :P21:34
djszapigri: well, asm was important for us in the DSP development period for optimization of the algorithms.21:34
djszapiDaremonai: that, or send to this email:
grigot to eat, bye21:37
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alteregoJust got the tenancy on my new place :D21:39
alteregoCan move in next month.21:39
alterego24th though, a bit of a wait.21:39
alteregoGonna have to stay at my parents for about a week.21:39
djszapisandst1: there is one problem with that package.21:44
Daremonaidjszapi, i'm writing the test cases, will send it soon21:44
* djszapi dislikes qmake a lot21:48
djszapisandst1: your project keeps being installed into /usr/local even if I pass PREFIX = /usr to cmake and also in the rules file.21:49
djszapigot an idea ?21:49
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djszapisandst1: if you have a sake to play with it, it is now installing to /usr/local/21:54
MohammadAGwhat's better practice to store some data, a list of structs or a list of QObjects?21:57
hiemanshuMohammadAG: say data what way?21:57
MohammadAGhiemanshu, for use in lists21:58
djszapisandst1: Could you please tell me the exact steps to replace the current program with my custom one in a good sense ?21:58
hiemanshuList of QObjects21:58
sandst1djszapi: for meegosummitfi? ok22:00
sandst1djszapi: the most important thing is to have a program xml like this:
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sandst1djszapi: then the rest is about changing logos and adjusting the overall look of the app22:02
Daremonaidjszapi: sent.22:07
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Daremonaidjszapi: could i also trouble you with taking/sending me a screenshot with the N9 (the right res is needed apparently).22:10
sandst1djszapi: xml path here:
Daremonaidjszapi: (Primary full-size screen shot 854x480)22:11
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DaremonaidjszapiN9: (not sure if you got my msgs earlier) I sent you the email, and if possible if you could take an in-game screenshot with the N9, the publish tool's asking me for a primary full-size screen shot 854x480. If possible take the screenshot after you press 'Play'. Thank you22:17
djszapiN9sure, i am currently excited on the train without my season tickey and wallet since i left those at nokia :p22:18
DaremonaidjszapiN9: haha :)22:18
DaremonaidjszapiN9: hope they don't bust you :P22:19
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lardmanhmm, so has the N9 been released in the UK?22:19
lardman(has been a busy week at work)22:20
fralsup for preorder at expansys afaik22:21
lardmanoh ok, just that it's not showing on the site afaict22:22
rantomI think it won't..22:23
lardmanso I read a few weeks back22:23
* lardman is tempted by NFC22:23
lardmanbut not so much by the lack of a kb22:23
rantomlardman: " Of course, those of us in the US are out of luck, as are those in Germany and the UK (barring any back-door wizardry)"22:23
rantomlardman: just what I could find quickly22:24
lardmanrantom: source?22:24
lardmanah thanks22:24
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fralsand for germans
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fralsso yeah, plenty of "back-door wizardry"22:26
rantomCheck the "Phones" icon22:26
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mecefrals, as someone who just joined the channel, let me just say... I'm sorry but I don't go for these backdoor shenanigans. Sure I'm flattered, maybe even a little curious, but the answer is no.22:31
mece- Homer Simpson22:31
mecerantom, funny, the icons is an N9, but the N9 is not in the list of phones :D22:35
rantommece: Yep22:37
rantomAnd I was just thinking that it'd be kind of rude to Nokia have a site of N9 in but no ways of selling it22:37
meceso what is the controversial issues that will be resolved, that ville tweeted about?22:37
mecerantom, aah it's the uk site. LOL even worse!22:37
mecehow to be a dick 10122:38
rantommece: Though I've seen worse. I saw in Metro (newspaper in Finland) an advertisement for Helsingin Sanomat (again, newspaper in Finland). That had a modified N8 on it (Nokia text removed). The bad part: it had iOS-bars in it. The whole topsection was from iOS22:38
SpeedEvilrantom: they pulled the store functionality from 6 months or more ago22:40
rantomSpeedEvil: But they left the icon in there22:42
SpeedEviloh - right22:42
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djszapisandst1: your app does not show up on the applauncher grid.23:06
MohammadAGdjszapi, any ideas how fast scroll works?23:06
djszapiyes, but no time, sorry, maybe tomorrow. Plenty of works here :(23:06
rantomMohammadAG: FYI: There's a Flashlight alternative in Ovi23:07
MohammadAGrantom, PhoneTorch?23:07
rantomMohammadAG: I think that was it's name23:07
rantomIt uses the LED23:07
rantomof camera23:08
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qgilDocScrutinizer: you here?23:23
djszapiqgil o/23:24
qgilhi there23:24
RST38hqgil, can we please have aegis disabled, at least in developer mode?23:24
qgilvainio is the one that knows about it, I honestly haven't been following it23:25
qgilDocScrutinizer: the point is - what do you want to do that aegis won't allow you to do?23:26
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GeneralAntillesThat's probably a good question for javispedro too.23:26
javispedrooh, hi.23:27
qgilit's a rhetorical question, vainio knows the answers and he is working with others to try to find the good deal for everybody23:27
javispedrowell, I've been meaning to make a list on the wiki so that people can add "understable" usecases that are blocked23:27
javispedrobut from my part, right before the flammatory message on f.m.c I realized I was no longer able to mount a directory from my desktop on the device using NFS23:28
qgiljavispedro: indeed,. details helps a lot more than arguing whether aegos is really FOSS or not, FOSS friendly or not23:28
javispedro( ;) )23:28
javispedroDocScrutinizer also will not be able to develop his USB hostmode project, as loading modules is forbidden23:29
DocScrutinizerheh, took me a while to switch channels23:29
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djszapisandst1: qmake is full of weird, I cannot manage it to /usr, just /usr/local :(23:32
DocScrutinizerqgil: ultra trivial example: I used to open the URL "sftp://root@maemodevice" in desktop Konqueror and happily copy files back and forth without any effort. Now on N950 I can't copy *any* file to *any* destination on device like that23:33
DocScrutinizeryeah I knoooow there are *always* workarounds - I'm just saying I don't get 5min of real work done with all the workarounds and workarounds fro workarounds not working like they should, in aegis systems23:35
DocScrutinizerfor a DEVELOPER system aegis is a killer23:35
DocScrutinizerqgil: there's a switch in harmattan settings called "developer mode" (OWTTE) - it should plain disable MSSF all together23:37
DocScrutinizerif it needs further security for no malware throwing that switch without user noticing it - so what? implement additional captchas, passwords, whatnot. I don't care. But pretty please relieve us from this aegis curse on DEVELOPER systems23:38
lardmannight all, time for some sleep before the next fed/nappy change23:49
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