IRC log of #europython for Sunday, 2009-04-12

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Tartleylac: hi you there?11:04
lac_yes11:05
lac_Now how do we start a meeting?11:05
lac_I forget the syntax11:06
Tartleyah, I'll look at the last one11:06
Tartley#startmeeting11:06
TartleyPRESENT11:06
lac_PRESENT11:07
TartleyI guess on reflection that implies we should have ended meeting yesterday11:07
lac_#endmeeting11:07
lac_#endmeeting11:07
lac_Now we will find out if they have nested scope or not. :)11:07
Tartleyhar11:08
lac_#startmeeting11:08
lac_PRESENT11:08
TartleyPRESENT11:08
Tartleybefore we start11:08
TartleyI found one talk back at number 1711:08
TartleyDeniable encryption11:08
TartleyI don't remember discussing this one - maybe I was absent11:09
lac_Yes.  I was to ask you the same thing11:09
Tartleyand I don';t have a champion assigned for it11:09
Tartleyah11:09
Tartleyalright,11:09
lac_I don't have it on my list.11:09
lac_I think we missed it in that 2 talks were retracted, not one11:09
Tartleyok, we just haven't done it then.11:09
Tartleyno problem11:09
lac_well, not any more, at any rate11:09
lac_begin with it?11:10
lac_and what's the count, you vs me?11:10
lac_Also did q take the OpenERP and the Object Framework talks?11:10
Tartleyyes, q did take those11:11
Tartleyor was assigned them, at any rate11:11
TartleyI realised last night that I still had the old 'withdrawn' talks on my tally11:11
Tartleyand they were yours, I believe, so you're number is lower today11:11
Tartleythan it was11:11
Tartleylooks like this:11:11
Tartleylac1411:12
Tartleytartley2011:12
Tartleyqwright & pinner411:12
Tartley511:12
Tartleyqwright211:12
Tartleypinner311:12
Tartleymoreati111:12
Tartleyignore the '   5'11:12
lac_ah, I have serious catching up to do11:12
lac_Python Sucks and Mashing up the Guardian are?11:13
Tartleypinner and moreati respectively11:13
Tartleynow that john has added 'champion' as a visible field on the talks overview page11:13
TartleyI'm hoping I won't have to maintain this separate table of champion names now11:14
lac_I put in all of mine this morning11:14
TartleyI'll make sure info from it is completely transfered into the django data11:14
lac_but these are the ones left over, which I don't think are mine.  Was hoping we could check that ...11:14
Tartleysure...11:14
lac_I also have IronClad, which I don't remember discussing, but think we did, and Semantic Web, which I remember discussing, and not wanting.11:15
Tartleyah, yes11:15
lac_as a champion, as a talk I am fine with it.11:15
Tartleyright11:16
TartleyI was going over the old IRC logs11:16
Tartleywe did agree to take one or two while discussing them, and then fail to honor those suggestions once or twice when it came down to the 'final' assignments at the end of meetings11:16
Tartleyi think there11:17
lac_ok, so we should have those?11:17
Tartleythere's no harm done, so long as we're all singing off the same hymnsheet11:17
lac_because I can take them.11:17
Tartleywell11:17
TartleyI know william who submitted IronClad - I see him every day11:17
Tartleyso it might make sense for me to take that11:17
lac_aha.  yes.  might have made sense for you to take the iron python ones, too, actually11:18
lac_how did I end up with them?11:18
lac_Not that talking to fuzzyman is a chore, but ...11:18
TartleyI think it happend when we just said 'you take the first 8, I11:18
Tartley'll do the next 811:18
Tartley'11:18
lac_aha! now that makes sense!11:18
Tartleywe skipped over one or two obvious reassignments that had been negotiated earlier11:18
Tartleyalright then11:19
Tartleyso I'll do ironclad and the ironpython ones... I'll mark that now11:19
lac_Ok, then I had better take Nicolas.  I have serious catching up to do here.11:19
Tartleyheh11:19
Tartleywell11:20
lac_Ok, more administrative stuff.11:21
lac_Many people have co-presenters.11:21
lac_I would like a Django form for them to use to add a new speaker.11:22
lac_so I don't have to collect the info from them and cut and paste it in.11:22
lac_They seem to have a key LastName_Firstname11:22
lac_which makes me wonder what happens if we have 2 Smith_John s presenting11:23
Tartleyhmmm, fair enough11:23
Tartleydoes django not automatically give us a form to add a new speaker - ah, but they don't have admin access11:24
lac_but I think we can mostly just export the http://www.europython.eu/submission/admin/submission/speaker/xxx form11:24
Tartleyright, yeah11:24
lac_where xxx is a number11:25
lac_this will, however, break the number is the same as the talk convention11:25
Tartleyi don't mind that. so long as the talk has the 1:N relationship to speakers11:25
lac_so I suppose we should put in a request to zeth or john or nickbooker about this11:25
Tartleywhich it does have fields for11:25
lac_yes, but the submission form didn't so we have to add speakers by hand11:26
Tartleyright11:26
lac_and we can only add speakers after we have filled in the speaker form for them11:26
Tartleyunderstood11:26
lac_so I was hoping to let the co-presenters tell their friends to go add themselves11:27
Tartleyyep, i follow11:27
lac_Ok, so anything more we need to ask for while we are asking?11:27
Tartleyi don't think so. I presume it's very obvious to them that some of the speaker fields are derived values, so don't need to be prompted for (eg width / height / from submission )11:29
lac_Ok, I wil ask that now.  europython-improve? europython-talks?11:30
Tartleyhmmmm talks i guess11:30
lac_ok11:30
lac_ok sent11:37
lac_time to start?11:37
Tartleyok then11:37
lac_TOPIC: deniable Encryption11:37
lac_The english on this one needs work.11:38
Tartleyinteresting topic11:38
Tartleyright11:39
lac_He comes from a language that doesn't make the distinction between 'a thing' and 'the thing' and11:39
lac_'thing'11:39
lac_so he mostly just leaves them out. :)11:39
Tartleyas one would11:39
lac_So I can take it, and work on the English, but not in the middle of this meeting because this sort of thing takes thought.11:40
Tartleyok then, I think otherwise it seems fairly sound11:41
lac_you do a little fixing, drink soem tea, think some more, putter around, and make some more changes.11:41
lac_So do I.11:41
lac_you write up the review comments?11:41
TartleyI'm tempted to start just cutting and pasting the IRC log into the reviewers comments. Then we can either skim that or else condense it as we see fit, when processing a submission11:42
lac_this is what moreati has already done in some other cases, I think, so Í am fine with this11:43
TartleyDECISION Accept Deniable Encryption, assign to lac, work on the English but otherwise a sound submission11:43
TartleyTOPIC Twittering with Python11:43
lac_i am changing them from New to Accepted at this point too.  Or have been with mine. OK?11:44
Tartleyyep, i agree11:45
lac_there -> their11:45
lac_about -> of11:45
Tartleyyep, but otherwise seems good. Clear what it's about.11:46
lac_still needs a bit of de-Germification11:46
Tartleyoh, also, it crossed my mind last night11:47
lac_but should be a fine talk.11:47
Tartleyat how many submissions are we concerned about having 'enough' or even 'too many'11:47
Tartley?11:47
lac_John says no, we can get another room if that is a problem.11:48
Tartleyright, i see.11:48
Tartleyhoray11:48
lac_I asked on Wednesday before you arrived.11:48
Tartleyalright then11:48
lac_I think that we may have a problem in that some talks may be so popular they overfill their rooms11:48
lac_and without polling people it is hard to guess which ones they will be.11:48
Tartleyhmmm. I11:48
lac_or rather, it is trivial to guess, its being right that is hard. :)11:49
Tartleyhar11:49
Tartleyalright. are you happy taking a few to even out the totals? does that fit with what you had in mind?11:49
lac_but we deal with that when we come to it.11:49
lac_sure,11:49
lac_including these next 211:50
TartleyDECISION Accept Twittering with Python, assign to lac, needs a little work on English, but generally sound11:50
lac_I think my real question is why do the people who like twitter like it so much?11:50
Tartleyhar, guilty as charged, I'm afraid11:51
lac_but maybe I won't ask that.11:51
TheSheeplac_: context switching is addictive11:51
lac_but as far as I know it means you get to watch a threaded discussion, and even participate, not seeing all the threads.11:51
lac_which struck me as, well, weird11:52
lac_er all the thread, even11:52
lac_ah well. back to work11:52
Tartleyyeah. har. It isn't perfect, that's for sure. But it seems to be fun and useful that you can be having a focussed discussion with one person, and other qualified people you both care about get to wade in, unexpectedly, from over your shoulders.11:53
Tartleygreat for distributed events - chatting about the inauguration, live, with your friends from around the world11:53
Tartleyanyhow11:54
lac_time for a new topic11:55
TartleyTOPIC Mixing Python and Java11:55
lac_looks like another good talk, and needs a little de-Germification, also11:56
Tartleyright, but the content seems great, and perfectly clear what he's going to talk about11:57
Tartleyanother sound submission, i think?11:57
lac_I agree.11:57
TartleyDECISION Accept Mixing Python and Java, assign to lac, a little work on de-Germification, otherwise good submission11:58
TartleyTOPIC Metaprogramming with Decorators12:01
Tartleywe're even again now, btw. You hadn't dropped as low as I made out12:01
Tartley(stupid spreadsheets)12:02
lac_ah, just a crafty plan to get me to take more talks!  bwah-hah-hah12:02
Tartleyalright, sounds like you've chatted with Bruce. I don't know of him.12:03
Tartleyooh, he's famous.12:03
lac_I have, but John is doing the bulk of it now, as it revolves around British Airways pricing12:03
lac_yes.  and pycon volunteer.  designed the tshirt, which I hope looked better in person than it did on my screen.12:04
lac_my screen is known for being overly red, though.12:04
Tartleyah, yes, i liked it a lot12:04
lac_great.12:04
lac_at any rate, he then went and broke his leg, so couldn't make pycon12:04
lac_I suggested he give the talk here, and he is willing but cannot afford to fly out.12:05
Tartleyohno! that was him! oh dear.12:05
lac_But he is a big draw name, so sponsoring him should make money for us, after the plane charge.12:05
Tartleyalrighty then. perennially interesting topic. all good.12:05
lac_and he is a professional programming educator.12:06
TartleyAny clarifications needed? I don't think so.12:06
lac_so his talks are always well done.12:06
lac_no.  just who to assign to.12:06
lac_you if you want an opportunity to chat with the man12:06
lac_me if your plate is looking full.12:06
TartleyWould be great, I'd be happy to, thanks12:07
lac_you are most welcome12:07
TartleyDECISION: Accept Metaprogramming with Decorators, assign to tartley.12:07
TartleyTOPIC turtle.py - a teaching tool12:09
lac_ah 'easily excitable'?12:10
Tartleynot precisely sure what that means12:10
lac_me either.  suggest we get that clarified.12:10
Tartleyproblems that are exciting I guess12:10
Tartleyok12:10
lac_for all I know this is a common German idiom that just doesn't survive translation12:10
Tartleyright12:11
Tartleyhe seems to lay it all out clearly in the abstract though12:11
Tartleyfixing 'traditional'12:12
Tartleyalright, seems good12:13
Tartleybarring 'excitable', I'm happy to accept as is12:13
TartleyDo you have any reservations about taking it on?12:14
lac_no, he is a happy contributor to edu-sig and I chat with him regularly12:15
TartleyDECISION: Accept turtle.py - a teaching tool, assign to lac, ask for clarification of 'easily exciting' in description12:15
lac_terrific12:15
TartleyTOPIC Python for System Admin12:16
lac_whose this Pinner guy? do we trust him to even show up?12:17
Tartleywait a minute! It's our glorious leader!12:17
lac_who's12:17
lac_:)12:17
lac_I guess we know whom to assign this to.12:17
Tartleydang, can12:18
Tartleycan't we find *one* correction that needs to be made :-)12:18
Tartleyalright, are you saying we can just assign to john himself and be done with it?12:19
Tartleythat's awesome12:19
lac_I think so.  Personally, I think that there are easier targets for bloat than the bash shell12:20
lac_designed for the 'I need a GUI to admininster anything' crowd, but maybe that's just me.12:21
TartleyDECISION: Accept Python for System Admin, assign to John himself.12:21
lac_then we can tease him that we assigned him talks while he wasn't here.... :)12:22
Tartleyindeed, a most excellent delegation12:23
TartleyTOPIC Rapid Prototyping with Python12:23
TartleyVRAD is presumably very rapid app dev, need clarify12:24
lac_there is a worse problem12:24
Tartleyy?12:24
lac_either that 2009 is a typo12:24
lac_or we need to reject this talk12:24
Tartleyahar12:24
Tartleyright12:24
lac_even if it is 2008, I am not sure we want the talk without seeing the code12:25
TartleyOK, lets just mail him to get the inside scoop. A demanding mission, requiring delicacy and yet incisive action.12:26
Tartleyshall I draft an email and run it by you before sending?12:27
lac_not yet12:27
lac_because I went to his speaker page12:27
lac_it says 2009 too12:27
Tartleymysterious12:27
lac_so I guess that is the best thing for now.  But this is one to leave as 'proofread' and not 'accepted'12:28
Tartleyright12:28
TheSheepcome on, almost 2 weeks of python experience!12:30
Tartleyalright, so I'll draft the email then, offline12:30
TartleyDECISION: Tartley to draft email to Chirs, submitter or Rapid Prototyping with Python, to ask if 'April 2009' is a typo, and to elicit information about & previews of the prototypes that will be demonstrated. Run this by lac before sending.12:33
lac_It is not clear that we need the previews -- if he says, oops, I meant 1999, then we are in a different place than if he says ooops I meant 200812:34
lac_its reponse significant12:34
Tartleyright, makes sense12:34
Tartleyok then. A quickie to ask about the date only first up.12:34
lac_yes.  will also make rejecting it easier if he says, yes, that's right, 2 weeks ago12:35
lac_though one might want to get a glace at the code just to see what perl-written-in-python looks like.12:35
lac_but I am mean.12:36
Tartleyyou surely are, please don't stop12:36
TartleyDECISION: Tartley's email to Chirs only needs elicit confirmation of the date for the time being. Running by lac not required for that.12:39
TartleyTOPIC Search with Python and Xapian12:39
lac_we have this in our app too.  rats, all our secrets revealed: :)12:41
lac_so it sounds like a very useful talk to me.12:42
TartleyYep. I just title-cased 'python'12:42
lac_you missed one in the abstract12:43
lac_I do not know if it is better as databases or as webprogramming12:43
TartleyHow will the categories be used? To create tracks of talks so that they won't run against each other?12:44
lac_er, more so that people who are in the room with a talk12:45
lac_are more likely to want to go to the next talk offered there12:45
lac_than have to change rooms12:45
Tartleyfair enough12:45
lac_the tracks against each other, well, it is a problem.12:46
lac_because an interest in web programming doesn't exclude an interest in testing or in anything else12:46
lac_for that matter.12:46
lac_what I would like to do, if we can, is to publish the talks and then mail all the speakers12:47
lac_and have them indicate which talks they want to see.12:47
lac_because I am more worried about scheduling a talk against the talk the speaker most wanted to see12:47
lac_than any other scheduling problem.12:48
Tartleyfair enough, that sounds great12:48
lac_except the -- we are trying to stick 250 people in a 90 person room problem12:48
lac_I worry about that a lot, too12:48
TartleyBut basically this submission is great.12:49
lac_yes,12:50
lac_very good.12:50
TartleyI12:50
TartleyI'm one ahead in the talks tally, so I12:50
Tartleyso I'm proposing to land you with it12:50
lac_can assign it to me.12:50
TartleyDECISION: Accept Search with Python and Xapian, assign to lac.12:51
TartleyTOPIC The Zen of Web12:52
lac_I propose we take this talk.  I wonder if 30 minutes is enough time.12:53
lac_and Like Ville I would have preferred tags as well.12:54
TheSheepI'd definitely come listen to that :)12:54
TartleyRight, well we have the field now, it'll be good for next year.12:54
TartleyAlright.12:55
TartleyAny clarifications needed? I may move Ville's keywords into our tag field to get the ball rolling12:55
lac_er tag field?12:56
TheSheepat the bottom12:56
Tartleyph12:56
TartleyI don't think it works the way I thought it works12:56
lac_I don't think so either, but I am not sure12:56
lac_I think they are Django tags for something Django related12:57
Tartleyalright, abort that12:57
Tartleyalright12:57
TartleyI'll take this, unless anyone jumps up12:57
Tartleyfor it12:57
Tartleyaccepted without requiring amendments12:58
lac_fine by me, I have a bunch I think are natural for me coming up.12:58
Tartleyah, i see12:58
TartleyDECISION: Accept The Zen of Web, assign to tartley12:58
TartleyMy lovely wife reminds me that I've let us overrun my planned slot for this meet - we have guests coming soon so I should vamoosh12:59
TartleyI'm still in pyjamas, etc13:00
lac_Apologise to her from me for taking too much of your time.13:00
Tartleynot at all, she's used to my ways. :-)13:00
lac_well, she may not be used to getting apologies, though, and I think she deserves one.13:00
lac_at any rate, we resume this work this evening? tomorrow?13:01
TartleyVery true, for which she was most amused and grateful. Alright. We're going to do the English easter chocolate overdose here.13:01
lac_have tons of fun!13:01
Tartleywe will, you too. Tomorrow is free for me, anytime.13:02
lac_ok, same time as today? or I can do earlier if you can13:02
lac_and again, not sure if somebody wants to go kayaking tomorrow13:02
TartleyI'm sorry, I'm not a mornings person, today was enough of a struggle.13:03
TartleyAlright, how about just a repeat performance, including caveats.13:03
TartleyThanks Laura13:03
lac_ah. ok, same time tomorrow then.  And repeat with caveats13:03
lac_Oh, thank you13:03
lac_pleasure working with you as always,13:03
lac_have fun13:03
Tartleybye for now people. Thanks for the lurking commentry too people.13:03
TartleyYou have fun too. Bye!13:03
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