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| galerien | Hi guys. I have a n900 device (and I want to break it, to loose any warranty and all) I followed this link : "https://meego.com/devices/handset/installing-meego-nokia-n900" and it doesn't work (booting on maemo). I couldn't use the "dd" command without mounting my SDHC card first, can that be the problem and how can I resolve it since dd refuses to use my card if it's not mounted... ? Thanks a ton in advance ! | 00:24 |
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| CosmoHill | .o/ | 01:53 |
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| xqo | hey | 03:14 |
| xqo | what is the general opinion of the N9? is it everything we hoped? | 03:14 |
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| phl0x81 | I love it, great phone, but some things annoy me. | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Basically no. | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | :( | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It depends what you want. | 03:15 |
| xqo | why not? | 03:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | If you're happy with a phone that is way more locked-down than the n900, with no opportunity to change kernel or add modules, or moduify system scripts, then fine. | 03:16 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9_and_N950_security_policy may be of interest. | 03:16 |
| phl0x81 | well, the n900 is kind of outdated in hardware. | 03:17 |
| phl0x81 | also the mobile world is not really oss friendly. | 03:18 |
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| phl0x81 | the N9 is a nice phone, but it has no perspective for the future. | 03:19 |
| phl0x81 | its probably the last device in that area from nokia (at least for a long time) | 03:19 |
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| xqo | so where do you go if you want a real opensource phone that is also a nice consumer product? | 03:22 |
| phl0x81 | that will never exist. | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | xqo: You spend the money to make it. | 03:23 |
| pabs3 | take a look at the next openmoko phone (gta04) | 03:23 |
| SpeedEvil | It will cost around a million to get a reasonable sized batch of decent phones. | 03:23 |
| xqo | pabs3, ANOTHER openmoko? | 03:23 |
| xqo | i thought it shut down after the freerunner? | 03:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | And probably 5* that to get a nice polished software stack. | 03:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Optimistically. | 03:24 |
| pabs3 | xqo: well, its being made by a different company, but in similar spirit | 03:24 |
| M4rtinK | xqo: GTA04 is not build by Openmoko | 03:24 |
| pabs3 | http://www.gta04.org/ | 03:24 |
| xqo | oh ok | 03:24 |
| M4rtinK | ist a german company called Golden Delicious doing it | 03:24 |
| M4rtinK | *its | 03:24 |
| phl0x81 | you know there was this meego tablet guy, who also wanted the kernel to be open source and free, he couldn't find a single manufacturer in China... | 03:24 |
| M4rtinK | Cordia tab ? | 03:24 |
| phl0x81 | yeah. | 03:25 |
| phl0x81 | Cordia tab afaik. | 03:25 |
| M4rtinK | I think he found something in the end - not know the current status though | 03:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | The fundamental problem is that many of the CPU makers are ass-hats. | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | They distribute teh kernel inside a NDA. | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | You can't actually further legally distrbute it at all. | 03:26 |
| pabs3 | NDA'd kernel = GPL violation? | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | But the only way for a vendor to release source is to rewrite it. | 03:27 |
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| M4rtinK | that's the dark side of the Chinese complete lack of respect to copyright | 03:27 |
| pabs3 | need to sic gplviolations.org onto some CPU makers | 03:27 |
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| jonwil | There are all kinds of stories on gplviolations mailing list regarding chinese chipset makers and what they do | 05:02 |
| jonwil | I think the issue for a lot of these guys is that their chipsets are just a combination of off-the-shelf chips, a custom board layout and reference design and a bunch of kernel code to make it actually work. | 05:03 |
| jonwil | And they figure that sharing their kernel code lets the other guys make carbon copies of their chipsets, reference boards and products | 05:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | Nope. | 05:14 |
| SpeedEvil | They don't hve the right to distribute the code they received. | 05:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | They don't actually have a valid licence to distribute at all. | 05:15 |
| SpeedEvil | They'd have to reimpliment if they wanted to distribute. | 05:15 |
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| jonwil | The chinese OEMs making the boards, chipsets and products are violating copyright, they know they are doing it and dont care. | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | But they have no choice - the boardmakers | 05:16 |
| wmarone_ | ah yes. smoku has said he has a new lead, no status updates on it yet though. | 05:17 |
| jonwil | Because they are more worried about their chinese competitors copying their product than about the almost non-existent possibility of being sued for linux kernel copyright violations | 05:17 |
| SpeedEvil | As the SoC makers don't release proper GPL | 05:17 |
| jonwil | yeah its the SoC makers fault | 05:17 |
| jonwil | they want to make sure that boardmakers cant just buy parts off the shelf and use em | 05:17 |
| jonwil | they have to go through the chipmakers to get support and an OS | 05:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, joy of crappy BSPs | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen raster | 05:22 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: DOCCCCC! | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaaah | 05:22 |
| infobot | raster is currently on #meego (41s), last said: 'exciting as all hell'. | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | she's lying, isn't she? | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | hi raster, how's life and bits and bytes? | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | and pixels, of course? | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen raster | 05:24 |
| infobot | raster is currently on #meego (2m 37s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 1m 56s, last said: 'DocScrutinizer: DOCCCCC!'. | 05:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 05:24 |
| raster | infobot is a bit slow on the uptake | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks like | 05:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 05:25 |
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| * SpeedEvil waves. | 05:31 | |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 05:31 | |
| * SpeedEvil hopes raster will reveal a new open-source wonder. | 05:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | soon | 05:32 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: hideyho | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | we really need it | 05:32 |
| raster | SpeedEvil: well not today | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh well. | 05:32 |
| raster | though i've been fearlessly treading down the path trodden by many before | 05:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | we can probably wait til maybe even xmas | 05:33 |
| raster | and making my own damned memory debugger | 05:33 |
| raster | i'm tired of memprof being mostly broken | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | raster: I want one of those, I'm continually suffering parity errors. | 05:33 |
| raster | nah | 05:33 |
| raster | not hw mem | 05:33 |
| raster | just tracing all allocations | 05:33 |
| raster | when allocated | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | wetware. | 05:33 |
| raster | by what backtrace | 05:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | leaks | 05:33 |
| raster | as well as adding canaries | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | valgrind-like? | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | But better? | 05:33 |
| raster | and patter filling new allocs and frees just nefpre free | 05:34 |
| raster | well not vg-like inthat there isnt a whole x86 interpertor | 05:34 |
| raster | its just a preload | 05:34 |
| raster | but u run it with the preload | 05:34 |
| raster | then | 05:34 |
| raster | kill -URG `pidof process` | 05:34 |
| raster | and the process will helpfully dump out a trace file for u | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | replacing malloc() ? | 05:34 |
| raster | that dumps every allocation | 05:34 |
| raster | the backtrace for the alloc | 05:35 |
| raster | timestamp | 05:35 |
| raster | etc. | 05:35 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 05:35 |
| * DocScrutinizer fires a kill -l | 05:35 | |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: onlyu way u can do it is by replacing all the alloc/free calls | 05:35 |
| raster | thus the preload | 05:35 |
| raster | unfortunately this stuff has issues | 05:35 |
| raster | like to get a backtrace | 05:35 |
| raster | inside your malloc handler | 05:35 |
| raster | the backtrace func.. has to do more mallocs | 05:35 |
| raster | hell | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 05:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 05:36 |
| raster | theres an initial malloc in dlym | 05:36 |
| raster | err | 05:36 |
| raster | dlsym | 05:36 |
| raster | which u need to find the original malloc symbols | 05:36 |
| raster | so malloc requires dlsym whihc requires malloc.. whihc requires dlsym... | 05:36 |
| raster | yay! | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh nice | 05:36 |
| raster | yeah | 05:36 |
| raster | i had to hack up an initial malloc static buffer to break that requirement loop | 05:37 |
| raster | you learn a lot when u have to make your own mallloc debugger | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, in your ld-preloaded wrapper lib you can access the original malloc() | 05:37 |
| raster | now i have to implement my own address to functionname function | 05:37 |
| raster | as bactrace_symbols is broken and cant get symbols most of the time | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 05:38 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: the wrapper can only access the orignal malloc via dlopen() and dlsym() | 05:38 |
| raster | because the preload already overrode allty he malloc symbols | 05:38 |
| raster | so evrything using malloc sees the ld preloads symbols | 05:38 |
| raster | not the real libc | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, how's that supposed to work at all then? | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually | 05:39 |
| raster | with great care | 05:39 |
| raster | normally u have a real libnc | 05:39 |
| raster | the real malloc doesnt do dlsym | 05:39 |
| raster | thus it doesnt in tern need malloc | 05:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme check my ld-preload wrapper for fopen() and friends | 05:39 |
| raster | an ldpreload inits itself on first func call to a wappred func | 05:39 |
| raster | anyway | 05:40 |
| raster | now to make my dump tool turn my raw ugly dump into somethng more human readable and do it in less than 30mins | 05:40 |
| raster | which is how long it takes | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | fopen64_function_type next_fopen64 = dlsym(RTLD_NEXT, "fopen64"); | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | dlsym | 05:42 |
| raster | :) | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: stil .kr? | 05:44 |
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| raster | DocScrutinizer: yup | 06:20 |
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| jonwil | anyone know of an example of how to do a hildon desktop widget (ala the google widget or the weather widget)? | 07:15 |
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| LaoLang_cool | I'm using ash as my interative shell, how to define commands to run at start-up, is it possible? | 09:11 |
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| LaoLang_cool | oh, wrong channel, should be #maemo, sorry for noise | 09:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooops, wrong channel :-P | 17:15 |
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| ifewalter | meego devs? | 19:58 |
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| ifewalter | i tried searching, and apparently qt miobility doesn't still support telephony. is there any known way to trigger phone call from qt | 19:59 |
| dm8tbr | all moved on, mostly to mer but probably to tizen too | 19:59 |
| dm8tbr | are you asking about the N9? | 19:59 |
| ifewalter | on meego generally | 20:00 |
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| lbt | ifewalter: if you want meego-like telephony on Qt then you want Mer | 20:12 |
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| lbt | tizen won't be supporting Qt "out of the box" | 20:12 |
| jedix | will tizen work "out of the box" before 2014? | 20:13 |
| lbt | Mer aims to work alongside Tizen to provide that support | 20:13 |
| lbt | jedix: I have every faith. When have we ever been let down before? | 20:13 |
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| jedix | mhm. | 20:14 |
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