| GAN900 | thiago, thank god. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lbt | andre__: it has the same guy giving the keynote,,,, :D | 00:05 |
| lbt | Alison_Chaiken: what is a "member" of LF ? | 00:06 |
| andre__ | lbt: yay! in case it's already online, shall I get the popcorn? I didn't attend the keynote in SF either for good reasons ;-) | 00:07 |
| lbt | lessee, given the MeeGo keynote I'm expecting the LinuxCon one to have lots about .... programming in C | 00:08 |
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| Alison_Chaiken | Who said anything about the stinking keynote? https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon/meego-mini-summit | 00:18 |
| Alison_Chaiken | meego-mini-summit! | 00:18 |
| timoph | lcuk: seems to be too maemo specific plus it's qwidget based | 00:18 |
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| lbt | hmm odd link | 00:20 |
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| lbt | see I noticed that https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon/schedule shows that the friday session has a guy from Nomovok speaking at 4pm | 00:21 |
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| lcuk | timoph ah i thought it was built a bit more generically | 00:31 |
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| diorahman | need more info on using Accounts&SSO from Qt App :-) | 00:37 |
| diorahman | examples will be very delightful! :-) mardy ? | 00:37 |
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| GAN900 | andre__, you missed out on our peanut gallery. | 01:10 |
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| andre__ | GAN900, meh. now what does that mean? | 01:10 |
| andre__ | Am I socially isolated now in this community, finally? | 01:11 |
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| GAN900 | andre__, well, there was a group of about a dozen of us there being very snarky. | 01:27 |
| GAN900 | andre__, you did see the peanut package picture? | 01:27 |
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| andre__ | GAN900, nope | 01:32 |
| ShadowJK | GAN900, are you talking about when people in here were staring at disbelief when someone was explaining what a PNG is? | 01:32 |
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| GAN900 | andre__, http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/5751457913/ | 01:42 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, nah, that was a different talk. | 01:43 |
| GAN900 | This was Zemlin's keynote. | 01:43 |
| andre__ | crap, I didn't have the "automatically check for new mail" flag set for the maemo-community folder. sigh. welcome hundreds of new emails :) | 01:43 |
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| andre__ | ehehe | 01:43 |
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| iTmp | Hi | 02:52 |
| CosmoHill | hi | 02:52 |
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| CosmoHill | :( | 02:52 |
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| crazedpsyc | Hi, are there any reccomended tablets for meego? | 04:03 |
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| CosmoHill | crazedpsyc: might be better off asking in about 6 ~ 8 hours | 04:45 |
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| crazedpsyc | CosmoHill: Ok, thanks. I'm about to sleep anyway :) | 04:48 |
| CosmoHill | that's why nobody has responded :) | 04:48 |
| CosmoHill | I should have gone to bed 3 hours ago | 04:48 |
| crazedpsyc | hehe | 04:48 |
| crazedpsyc | only one hour here ;) | 04:48 |
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| madsara | Hey all... anyone want to discuss SSSE3 for a second? | 04:53 |
| madsara | I'm sure it's a conversation that's been beaten into the ground, just curious as to what level of performance gain it's given Meego (and thus Meego requires it) | 04:54 |
| madsara | BTW, I've been demoing meego - you devels have done a GREAT job on it, I'm quite impressed. | 04:54 |
| berndhs | what's to discuss about it ? | 04:54 |
| madsara | berndhs: Well, for one... say I have a laptop without ssse3 cpu extensions and I think I'm bold enough to recompile kernel without it... what loss will I see? | 04:55 |
| CosmoHill | madsara: it's not just the kernel | 04:55 |
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| madsara | A number of packages as well.. | 04:56 |
| berndhs | on that particular laptop you won't see any loss :) | 04:56 |
| madsara | You mocking my T42 Thinkpad? | 04:56 |
| CosmoHill | netbooks which are targeted by MeeGo use SSSE3 cos they need everything they can get | 04:56 |
| madsara | Heh. | 04:56 |
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| berndhs | i still dont like deb packaging | 05:00 |
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| berndhs | i have to build the package before I submit it to the build service | 05:04 |
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| crazedpsyc | uh oh, is meego based on debian? | 05:08 |
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| berndhs | crazedpsyc: no | 05:11 |
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| berndhs | crazedpsyc: there is a branch of meego used by a Nokia device that is deb based | 05:11 |
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| crazedpsyc | Ah, ok | 05:12 |
| crazedpsyc | What does the regular version of Meego use then? I am an arch (pacman) fan myself | 05:13 |
| ali1234 | rpm | 05:16 |
| crazedpsyc | Ok, cool | 05:16 |
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| ali1234 | not that rpm packaging is any better than deb packaging | 05:18 |
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| berndhs | rpm is somewhat cleaner to make | 05:18 |
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| ali1234 | it's virtually identical | 05:18 |
| berndhs | you don't have to coordinate a pile of control files | 05:18 |
| berndhs | and you don't have to mess within the source tree | 05:18 |
| berndhs | the end up doing pretty much the same things, sure | 05:18 |
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| ali1234 | with RPM, all the stuff that goes in separate files under deb, all goes in one big file, with no structure or order | 05:19 |
| berndhs | yes it is in one file, so you know what version of that file you're dealing with | 05:19 |
| ali1234 | they both allow packagers to do truly horrible things in the prep stage | 05:19 |
| berndhs | with deb, you have to synchronize a bunch of little files | 05:20 |
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| ali1234 | you still have the problem with rpm, with the patches | 05:20 |
| berndhs | I avoid having patches :) | 05:20 |
| berndhs | but I especially find messing within the source tree distasteful | 05:21 |
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| madsara | Are you guys using an onscreen keyboard? | 05:32 |
| madsara | I installed the meego virtual keyboard, doesn't seem to appear anywhere. | 05:32 |
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| KingRichardIV | vgrade: oh yes, you did just get called out by a stranger. :p I hear you're working on Tegra2 and MeeGo? Would it ever get to the point that any Tegra2 device could run MeeGo? :) | 07:22 |
| KingRichardIV | or anyone else who's worked on tegra2 with meego? :) | 07:23 |
| KingRichardIV | i figure if the drivers are there, it's just a question of getting an open bootloader, and maybe getting drivers for the cellular component? can't i recycle the drivers used by android? | 07:23 |
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| Qantourisc | How differnt is Meego Manhatten from meego vanial ? And will i be able to run it later on it ? | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | meego vanilla should be able to run on n950 and hopefully n9 | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | also, Harmattan. | 09:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:39 |
| Qantourisc | ow sorry :) | 09:39 |
| Qantourisc | Stskeeps: you had doubt over both phones ... | 09:39 |
| Qantourisc | Stskeeps: so what WILL it run on ? :p | 09:39 |
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| Qantourisc | And then comes the hard part: figuring out if the phone can do what i want it to do (out of the box without meego vanilla, as this still had day-to-day-bugs) | 09:41 |
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| robbiethe1st | Qantourisc: Which phone? | 09:52 |
| Qantourisc | robbiethe1st: that's to be decided | 09:52 |
| dm8tbr | he meant 'harmattan' presumably | 09:52 |
| Qantourisc | dm8tbr: and yes | 09:53 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, if you're looking at the N9, it's going to take quite a while to get all thwe apps needed to come up to the same level of usability as, say, the N900 | 09:54 |
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| robbiethe1st | Also, guys.. I just got my N950. Where's the 'app manager'? | 09:56 |
| dm8tbr | swipe | 09:57 |
| Qantourisc | robbiethe1st: the apps i'm probably looking for is SSH, maybe irc ?, imap, "contact's" 'STILL didn't figure out how to sync contacts) and webcaldav | 09:57 |
| dm8tbr | robbiethe1st: left/right right/left from outside the screen border | 09:57 |
| dm8tbr | or did you mean the one for (un)installing? it's in settings | 09:58 |
| robbiethe1st | No, I mean... to install stuff like root and stuff. I'm coming from the N900 and don't exactly have a guide or anything here | 09:58 |
| dm8tbr | first enable dev mode | 09:59 |
| robbiethe1st | via flasher or...? | 09:59 |
| dm8tbr | robbiethe1st: should we move this to #harmattan? :) | 09:59 |
| robbiethe1st | Oh... That's the channel for that? Ok | 10:00 |
| dm8tbr | yeah, more on topic there as we're getting into nitty gritty | 10:00 |
| robbiethe1st | Fair enough | 10:00 |
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| Stskeeps | can someone explain to me the obsession people have with adding string timestamps to their binaries? | 10:02 |
| Qantourisc | Stskeeps: wish i knew :/ | 10:03 |
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| dm8tbr | Stskeeps: you mean like 'this binary built on $date'? I sort of see why, but I also know it screws up OBS rebuild logic | 10:06 |
| dm8tbr | proper version strings (or just checkout hash or whatever) would likely make more sense | 10:06 |
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| Stskeeps | yes | 10:09 |
| * Stskeeps is working to reduce churn so | 10:09 | |
| dm8tbr | *nod* thought so | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | they'd probably be useful to submit back to meego anyway | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | taking the Mer approach, ie, doing code to show my points and improve the upstream, ie, M**** Reconstructed) | 10:14 |
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| dm8tbr | "#MeeGo first boot on #STEricsson #Igloo #SnowBall! Now that I have basic userspace up time to figure out framebuffer and get UX up!" http://twitter.com/#!/tbr23/status/105180419577745408 | 10:33 |
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| IanWizard-Cloud | Ahh MeeGo, I'm happier now :) | 11:12 |
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| Stskeeps | :) | 11:17 |
| IanWizard-Cloud | Stskeeps: we all feel that way, and we know it. | 11:18 |
| IanWizard-Cloud | How do we suppose this Nokia / Microsoft stuff will affect MeeGo, and more importantly, QT? | 11:19 |
| IanWizard-Cloud | I imagine that MeeGo will have NO problem, because it's protected enough by Intel, but QT? doesn't bode well. | 11:20 |
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| Stskeeps | IanWizard-Cloud: i doubt it'll affect things, qt is still central | 11:30 |
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| Stskeeps | morn wazd | 11:48 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: timestamps in binaries ... these people aren't used to working package managers | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: so far i've removed churn causing things in perl and rpm | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | that should speed things up immensely | 12:08 |
| lbt | cool - I look forward to a short blog post :) | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | that said, there are some things that are wtf in current meego tree.. dbus + x11 is a requirement for base ports | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | because of a silly non-seperation of tools in dbus and systemd | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | so i plan to propose patches for that and churn issues | 12:10 |
| dm8tbr | Stskeeps++ | 12:10 |
| lbt | well, are you using the agile browser? | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: no, i just observed it while reading build logs | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | i am using agile browser normally | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | but i don't have a source dependancy generator | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | (i really miss that) | 12:11 |
| lbt | hmm | 12:11 |
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| Stskeeps | ie, give me a list of source dependancies from a OBS project | 12:11 |
| inean | hi everyone | 12:12 |
| lbt | source deps? | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 12:12 |
| lbt | vs build-deps? | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | i mean build-deps | 12:12 |
| lbt | and osc bdep ? | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | we have that? | 12:12 |
| lbt | so what am I missing? | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | (i don't have 'osc bdep', i think) | 12:12 |
| lbt | oh | 12:12 |
| lbt | that was question | 12:13 |
| lbt | yes, we have that | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | oh, where? | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | not in my osc :) | 12:13 |
| lbt | osc dependson --help | 12:13 |
| lbt | bdep is the xml that's provided to give the chroot package list | 12:14 |
| Stskeeps | ah cute | 12:14 |
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| Stskeeps | that'll come in handy | 12:14 |
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| lbt | coffee | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | if it could output agile browser stuff too, that'd be nice | 12:15 |
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| lbt | Mikko Ylinen (?) was asking about getting some AB and pkgDB stuff sorted out | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | right | 12:25 |
| lbt | it would be useful for you and Sage to ask Ramez for MINT to support this kind of thing as part of managing the CE codebase | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | AB format is really easy | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | http://pastie.org/2405839 | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | @ for attributes, / for edge | 12:27 |
| lbt | *nod* | 12:27 |
| lbt | what we/they need to do is supplement it with some audit-like feature for tracking license compliance | 12:27 |
| lbt | the dependency graph is dynamic | 12:28 |
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| lbt | the audit is static | 12:28 |
| Termana | morning | 12:28 |
| lbt | one from OBS, the other from pkgDB | 12:28 |
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| lbt | the more 'AB and OBS stuff is useful' feedback that Ramez (and Marc) gets, the more likely we'll prioritise it | 12:29 |
| lbt | once AB gets into scope we'll have resource to support it :) | 12:29 |
| CosmoHill | .o/ | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | AB should really be in scope for everyone | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:30 |
| lbt | yes, I realise ... so it'd help if you told Ramez that as the CE cheif wotsit | 12:30 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: back to the timestamp in binary problem : rpm -V $(rpm -qf $BINARY ) tells you if it's modified AIUI | 12:40 |
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| Stskeeps | mm | 12:43 |
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| BluesLee | DocScrutinizer: ping | 13:18 |
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| lcuk | lbt, what would the MINT process add to the CE? | 13:30 |
| lbt | remove drudgery, allow improved QA/process validation | 13:30 |
| lcuk | sounds reasonable, is there an outline document on the wiki? | 13:32 |
| lcuk | ahh http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Infrastructure | 13:34 |
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| lcuk | morning bergie \o | 13:45 |
| lcuk | how is the flow programmung | 13:45 |
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| Stskeeps | woo, perl no longer makes timestamped builds \o/ | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | that should reduce churn extremely | 13:50 |
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| CosmoHill | Stskeeps: what version of perl? | 14:02 |
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| bergie | lcuk: moving forward... http://universalruntime.tumblr.com/post/8998693776/node-js-powered-web-server-written-with-the-noflo | 14:05 |
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| lcuk | bergie, what are you using it to build? | 14:23 |
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| lcuk | bergie, does it generate a native class tree out of the visual nodes | 14:24 |
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| lbt | bergie: hmmm noflo seems quite similar conceptually to BOSS | 14:32 |
| vkrause | obs tells me "The setup of repository is broken, build not possible.", any idea what that's supposed to mean and/or how i get rid of that? | 14:33 |
| bergie | lbt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow-based_programming | 14:34 |
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| lbt | bergie: so our black boxes are called participants | 14:42 |
| lbt | http://autodoc.meego.com/mint/ | 14:43 |
| lbt | eg http://autodoc.meego.com/mint/boss-participant-prechecks/participants/check_package_built_at_source.html | 14:43 |
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| lbt | bergie: of course our messages flow across multiple systems and languages (python/perl/ruby/php) using AMQP and json ... :) | 14:45 |
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| lcuk | lbt if you have a worker that is idle for something | 15:04 |
| lcuk | does it poll for things | 15:04 |
| lcuk | or does it wait | 15:04 |
| lbt | pretty sure it waits | 15:05 |
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| lcuk | reasonable | 15:06 |
| lcuk | lbt i have been looking at push message stuff | 15:06 |
| lcuk | the comet code i mentioned the other day | 15:07 |
| lcuk | which is useful for mobile clients knowing job statuses without draining battery polling every few seconds | 15:07 |
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| lbt | lcuk: the obs code is fairly mature - unlikely to change it w/o benefit | 15:13 |
| lcuk | lbt was not considering that | 15:14 |
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| wald0 | is the wetab a megoo os ? | 15:33 |
| wald0 | s/megoo/meego/ | 15:33 |
| infobot | wald0 meant: is the wetab a meego os ? | 15:33 |
| wald0 | thanks infobot :) | 15:33 |
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| dm8tbr | I'm not sure about their current status, but they might be meego 1.0 core compliant | 15:34 |
| wald0 | mmh, i would like to know the disk space used for the operating system, is there any channel specific for meego ? | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | #meego | 15:35 |
| the-boss | SpeedEvil: Error: "meego" is not a valid command. | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 15:36 |
| * SpeedEvil is tired, and not parsing right. | 15:36 | |
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| wald0 | sorry, i meant wetab | 15:42 |
| wald0 | what is the aprox. size of the installed OS's of meego ? | 15:42 |
| dm8tbr | wald0: that depends on the UX and vendor specific packages | 15:43 |
| lcuk | w00t_, you mentioned yesterday you were poking around ofono, any particular reason | 15:49 |
| KaIRC | wald0: if you have one, it's probably enough to go to a terminal window and do a |df| | 15:50 |
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| wald0 | no, i dont have one... i ask that because im looking to buy a wetab and there's 16gb and 32gb, where im not decided yet... i think that i can do anything with 16gb because 32 becomes pretty more expensive just for that | 15:51 |
| SpeedEvil | wald0: I would be astonished if it's a gig. | 15:52 |
| SpeedEvil | wald0: No SD slot I assume? | 15:52 |
| Bostik | wetab has a SD slot | 15:53 |
| Bostik | discovered it just week ago or so... | 15:53 |
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| KaIRC | wald0: amazon.de at least has very very cheap prices for the wetab | 15:54 |
| KaIRC | compared to the "official" price at least | 15:55 |
| wald0 | let's make a look to amazon.de | 15:55 |
| wald0 | i want to install a second OS, around 2gb clean install, this is why i ask how much "uses" meego, anybody knows (or has one to run df) ? | 15:56 |
| Bostik | I don't remember how big the recovery image is but not too big | 15:56 |
| KaIRC | and it has a USB port and an SDHC slot, so you can pop additional storage into it | 15:56 |
| wald0 | well, recovery image can be compressed, very probably | 15:56 |
| wald0 | so 3x more than the image | 15:57 |
| wald0 | KaIRC: only one usb ? | 15:57 |
| Bostik | two | 15:57 |
| KaIRC | wald0: also, it seems that between the 16GB and 32GB variants there's more difference than just the storage | 15:57 |
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| wald0 | yes, i think that i could solve it with the extra slots...specially sdhc (not annoying thing plugged) | 15:58 |
| wald0 | KaIRC: really ? which things ? | 15:58 |
| KaIRC | not sure, on amazon it looks like gps could not be supported on the 16GB variant, but I'm not sure | 15:58 |
| KaIRC | their own page doesn't sounds like that | 15:59 |
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| wald0 | ah, possible... well, fortunately im not interesed on gps or 3g :) | 16:00 |
| Bostik | wetab is far from sexy as a development board but for basic stuff and light UI development it is pretty nice | 16:00 |
| Bostik | weighs a ton, though | 16:00 |
| * SpeedEvil idly wonders about meego on pre | 16:01 | |
| lcuk | Bostik, light ui development? | 16:01 |
| wald0 | anybody knows if supports more than one finger ? i suppose that since ipod's appears, this should be a very basic need... | 16:01 |
| lcuk | why not normal/heavy ui development? | 16:01 |
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| wald0 | i would like to use it for tests/programming | 16:01 |
| Bostik | lcuk: the gpu is very low-end | 16:01 |
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| lcuk | Bostik, lower than n900? | 16:02 |
| * lcuk sighs at all ui requiring heavy gpu | 16:02 | |
| Bostik | although we did get 60fps out of it on full screen... | 16:02 |
| lcuk | \o/ | 16:02 |
| * wald0 thinks that any UI development that not works in low-end gpu's is not worth :) | 16:03 | |
| * SpeedEvil notes that his PII/300 laptop worked fine with a 800x600 screen. | 16:04 | |
| SpeedEvil | And was completely acceptably fast. | 16:04 |
| Bostik | a very simple plasma effect with nothing but a a background image jabs 63-68% of gpu power | 16:04 |
| lcuk | Bostik, according to wikipedia there is a 1.6g cpu | 16:04 |
| wald0 | the it requires better optimization lol | 16:05 |
| wald0 | the soft, i mean :) | 16:05 |
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| KaIRC | SpeedEvil: I remember the 8086 being too fast for all those 8088 games... | 16:06 |
| lcuk | Bostik, I remember the days when you saw plasma being rendered | 16:06 |
| lcuk | a lovely algorithm in fractint | 16:06 |
| KaIRC | Bostik: hmm, sounds like one should not use such an inefficient system as plasma, then :P | 16:06 |
| * SpeedEvil remembers 320*240 raytraces taking several hours. | 16:07 | |
| SpeedEvil | (386dx/20) | 16:07 |
| lcuk | kairc, you need plasma for the warp core rendering | 16:07 |
| * wald0 remembers the TURBO button :P | 16:07 | |
| CosmoHill | SpeedEvil: you should use my cluster | 16:07 |
| CosmoHill | it will be done within a year | 16:07 |
| thiago | good old Turbo button | 16:07 |
| Bostik | KaIRC: it's a good test baseline, as it creates updates all over the screen | 16:07 |
| KaIRC | lcuk: warp cores need to be used for propulsion, not for rendering | 16:07 |
| thiago | because sometimes I wanted to run my computer at 62.5% reduced speed | 16:07 |
| lcuk | KaIRC, ahh | 16:08 |
| KaIRC | Bostik: well, sounds like a waste of resources :P | 16:08 |
| thiago | except that the turbo button in my casing wasn't connected to anything :-) | 16:08 |
| * KaIRC is intentionally non-seriously trolling ;-) | 16:08 | |
| Bostik | that it is, sure :) | 16:08 |
| lcuk | i wonder if fractint will build in obs | 16:08 |
| * lcuk goes and searches for a linux package | 16:08 | |
| wald0 | thiago: yes, for games is very good when you found the "big boss" and unpress it :) | 16:08 |
| thiago | wald0: like calibrating timer loops that overflowed? | 16:09 |
| Bostik | oh and btw, world of goo runs nicely on wetab with meego 1.2 :) | 16:09 |
| Bostik | playing that with touch is neat | 16:09 |
| lcuk | Bostik, is it in an obs somewhere? | 16:10 |
| Bostik | no | 16:10 |
| * thiago remembers that the PC Washer toy-app was just 1 or 2s of unintelligible noise on his 386 | 16:10 | |
| Bostik | coworker installed their rpm and deps, and that's it | 16:10 |
| Bostik | it did need a config tweak to use whole screen | 16:11 |
| wald0 | thiago: nah, slowing the game is more easy to kill the big boss :) | 16:11 |
| thiago | good, old times when you could tell how long code would take to execute with certainty by counting clock cycles | 16:11 |
| KaIRC | in fact, once both are mature and I finally have a tablet, I'll be quite torn between Plasma Active and whatever comes out of B2G as a primary environment - but I'd want MeeGo underneath any of them | 16:12 |
| thiago | no cache misses, lengthy memory accesses, page faults, preemptive multitasking... | 16:12 |
| wald0 | very coffe during compilations... | 16:13 |
| KaIRC | and yes, I want a good GPU with an open driver, and I want to run WebGL on it :) | 16:13 |
| KaIRC | (and I want a pony...) | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | thiago: It's astonishing that random byte access times essentially hasn't changed since ~1990 | 16:14 |
| lcuk | wooohoo i found a .spec file for xfractint | 16:16 |
| lcuk | and a .src.rpm too | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Oooh. | 16:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Pinch+zoomy goodness. | 16:16 |
| lcuk | well i dont know about that | 16:16 |
| KaIRC | Bostik: world of goo seems to not need a lot of graphics acceleration, interestingly, it worked fine with all kinds of old graphics chips when I tried it | 16:17 |
| lcuk | but it was one of the first open source apps I ever looked at and tinkered with | 16:17 |
| Bostik | true | 16:17 |
| thiago | SpeedEvil: in terms of cycles? | 16:17 |
| SpeedEvil | thiago: In terms of nanoseconds | 16:17 |
| Bostik | playing with touch gives the game a nice feel | 16:18 |
| KaIRC | well, we can just access a whole lot of bytes in parallel | 16:18 |
| SpeedEvil | thiago: 1990 was ~200ns or so. Now is 10ns or so | 16:19 |
| lcuk | thiago, back then touchscreen devices cost thousands of pounds | 16:19 |
| KaIRC | Bostik: hmm, I'll need to try that on this 23" desktop touch screen some time | 16:19 |
| lcuk | well, the original lightpens were cheap | 16:19 |
| lcuk | but they went out of fashion | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | thiago: But RAM price has dropped by a factor of 10000 or so, while access time only by 20 | 16:20 |
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| KaIRC | well, you rarely need a single byte in reality, and accessing a larger block has been optimized more | 16:21 |
| SpeedEvil | True. | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Though it depends. | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Sometimes you can't avoid hitting that penalty over and over | 16:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | This can be exploited in some cases. | 16:23 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - if you have an algorithm with 3MB of data accessed randomly, it will execute at remarkably the same speed on platforms from cellphones to ultra-high-end servers. | 16:23 |
| KaIRC | sure... I'm more concerned about disk speed on my desktop, actually - and on mobile, I'm more concerend about having an open system that works well | 16:23 |
| KaIRC | SpeedEvil: so you mean you can calibrate speed with that? | 16:24 |
| SpeedEvil | KaIRC: For example hashing algorithms. | 16:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | Even the fastest processors don't have more than xMb of cache. | 16:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Where x is still quite small | 16:25 |
| KaIRC | I heard that sometimes running them on the GPU is faster than on the CPU | 16:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It depends, not for applications where you need random access to large amounts of RAM | 16:26 |
| KaIRC | oh, ok | 16:26 |
| KaIRC | but what does it help you to have an algorithm that can't use the strength of a "better" system? | 16:27 |
| SpeedEvil | A working set larger than cache, and accesses spread so that reading a cacheline in only reads one byte | 16:27 |
| KaIRC | I still don't see what such a slow algorithm is good for | 16:29 |
| lcuk | ahh the fun of optimising asm algorithm to fit in 256bytes of cache | 16:35 |
| lcuk | *instruction cache | 16:35 |
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| lcuk | bah i cant get fractint binaries to work | 16:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | KaIRC: If you can hash at around same speed as a (say) cellphone can, on a fast machine, then that can make attacks which require the server to generate lots of hashes impractical. | 16:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | Versus more normal algorithms may go 100* faster on fast server. | 16:45 |
| KaIRC | ok | 16:46 |
| Bostik | cellphones tend to have some sexy crypto accelerators | 16:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Bostik: Sure | 16:46 |
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| lcuk | holy crap | 16:52 |
| lcuk | i see mandelbrot on my meego ideapad | 16:52 |
| lcuk | :D | 16:52 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 16:52 |
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| lcuk | \o/ | 16:53 |
| SpeedEvil | {} | 16:54 |
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| lcuk | curiously | 17:02 |
| lcuk | fractint on my ideapad | 17:02 |
| lcuk | appears no squicker now | 17:02 |
| lcuk | the plasma rendering (thanks Bostik) still tile renders at about same speed I remember on 486 spec machines | 17:03 |
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| lcuk | lorenz chaotic butteryfly renders quickly | 17:04 |
| * lcuk really pleased to see this | 17:05 | |
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| lcuk | http://www.openmamba.org/distribution/distromatic.html?tag=milestone1-updates&pkg=xfractint.source | 17:06 |
| lcuk | incase others want to tinker | 17:06 |
| lcuk | the binary package from there installs with rpm -i :) | 17:06 |
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| nge | i`m need help | 17:48 |
| nge | phone don`t load | 17:50 |
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| nge | phone isn`t loaded. flasher3-5 doesn`t stitch phone. what will prompt? | 17:54 |
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| nge | who live is? | 17:58 |
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| lcuk | how would an app launcher operate on semi accurate touchscreen | 18:49 |
| lcuk | sometimes when scrolling app list on capacitive screen | 18:49 |
| lcuk | accidental press occurs | 18:50 |
| lcuk | should each app require double tap | 18:50 |
| lcuk | or a dedicated button | 18:50 |
| lcuk | like the network connect button in harmattan connections dialog | 18:50 |
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| Bostik | lcuk: I would probably solve that with some kind of timer - only accept taps if there has not been any other kind of touch (pointer) event in a given, arguably short time | 18:55 |
| Bostik | so a tap would require to lift a finger first, really | 18:55 |
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| lcuk | Bostik, hmm perhaps | 19:05 |
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| lcuk | i shall experiment some more | 19:05 |
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| nge | what it`s "modprobe: FATAL: can not load /etc/module/kernel***" what it`s | 19:17 |
| nge | device n900 | 19:17 |
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| Bostik | whut? /etc/module/... ? | 19:18 |
| Bostik | aren't modules supposed to be in /lib/modules/... | 19:18 |
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| thiago | they are | 19:21 |
| thiago | nge: what's the exact error message you're getting? | 19:21 |
| nge | thiago, when device try loaded | 19:21 |
| thiago | "when device try loaded" is not syntactically correct English | 19:22 |
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| nge | thiago, meego tries to boot, takes off the message, the black sceen, reboot | 19:27 |
| thiago | ok | 19:27 |
| thiago | but what is the exact message? | 19:27 |
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| sivang | could a font's installation be a temporary fix for this? https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22701 | 19:36 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug 22701 nor, Undecided, ---, james.wei, NEW, No Hebrew fonts in web pages. | 19:36 |
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| * sivang is testing tablet on a daily basis now, reading the Qt documentation with it is nothing short but pure pleasure. | 19:36 | |
| sivang | also, big kudos to browser team for N950 | 19:37 |
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| sivang | the first mobile browser I can really use and enjoy in the same time. | 19:37 |
| sivang | is it still MicroB ? | 19:37 |
| thiago | MeeGoBot: well, the fix for the absence of fonts is to install the fonts :-) | 19:37 |
| MeeGoBot | thiago: ok | 19:37 |
| thiago | oops | 19:37 |
| thiago | sivan: well, the fix for the absence of fonts is to install the fonts :-) | 19:37 |
| sivang | thiago: do we have a package for that? | 19:37 |
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| * sivang needs to connect a keyboard and hasonly one. | 19:37 | |
| thiago | I don't know. | 19:38 |
| sivang | thiago: I know that :) | 19:38 |
| thiago | sivang: the browser on the N950 and N9 is grob | 19:38 |
| thiago | it's a QtWebKit-based browser | 19:38 |
| sivang | who's grob? | 19:38 |
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| sivang | thiago: so no more gecko? | 19:38 |
| lcuk | sivang, thiago - and what a great job it does | 19:38 |
| thiago | no, it's not gecko | 19:38 |
| sivang | uh-ha! | 19:38 |
| sivang | lcuk: seriously, the best mobile browser I have ever had the pleasuure to touch. | 19:38 |
| * lcuk agrees | 19:39 | |
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| sivang | lcuk: it is like having a true desktop browsing experience. | 19:39 |
| lcuk | really good ux | 19:39 |
| sivang | best UX ever. | 19:39 |
| thiago | the firefox that was on the Harmattan images up until recently was good too | 19:39 |
| thiago | but it used too much RAM, so it became slow too quickly | 19:39 |
| lcuk | shall see how well n950-ce works with it | 19:39 |
| sivang | if Nokia sells the N9's ux to a handset vendor, Harmattan *will* be the succesor to iPhone. | 19:39 |
| thiago | unfortunately, using gecko to paint to a cairo raster image, then load the image into Qt and draw wasn't a good design | 19:39 |
| sivang | thiago: yes, like on the N900 | 19:39 |
| thiago | but it still had some necessary features that grob still didn't last i checked | 19:40 |
| sivang | thiago: right, too many levels of indirection. | 19:40 |
| thiago | no mouse-cursor mode, no way to drag parts of the screen (e.g., google maps) | 19:40 |
| thiago | there were also some other basics that were missing but I can't remember now what | 19:40 |
| sivang | I'm sure, but for the mobile use in the restaurant or so, it is good enough. | 19:41 |
| sivang | thiago: isn't that working with one finger touch? | 19:41 |
| sivang | thiago: I didn't stumble upon them yet, so I guess for the average user that's more than enough. | 19:41 |
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| Stskeeps | arfoll: nice @ cocom | 19:41 |
| thiago | or it's implemented them since I last tried | 19:41 |
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| thiago | it's been two months since I handed back my N950 | 19:41 |
| sivang | I don't think Safari on iFone supports mouse curosor | 19:42 |
| sivang | but indeed a nifty feature | 19:42 |
| sivang | right :) | 19:42 |
| sivang | last time I chekced, the gesture for mouse cursor was ignored | 19:42 |
| arfoll | Stskeeps, yeah hopefully it'll be possible to get real meego tv hardware now | 19:42 |
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| sivang | and I updated a day ago. | 19:42 |
| * sivang rechecks | 19:42 | |
| thiago | if you're interested in why the name "grob", it's because an engineer was working on the überbrowser project | 19:42 |
| thiago | but he's Finnish, and there ü and y are the same, so he wrote yberbrowser | 19:43 |
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| sivang | thiago: interesting :) | 19:43 |
| thiago | then the Danes took over and they wanted to call it großbrowser, but couldn't find the ß in their keyboards | 19:43 |
| thiago | hence, grob | 19:43 |
| sivang | lol | 19:43 |
| sivang | is it an open source projoect? | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | danes wanted to call it a german word? thank god they shut down the place | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:43 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: LOL | 19:43 |
| thiago | I hope they release everything | 19:44 |
| thiago | likely not the browser itself, but the engine is open | 19:44 |
| sivang | so Nokia in denmakr? | 19:44 |
| thiago | yes | 19:44 |
| sivang | I did not know there are Nokia R&D there. | 19:44 |
| thiago | the five guys left from the Copenhagen office | 19:44 |
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| sivang | so the UX is closed? (for the browser, again a ground breaking design for browser UX) | 19:44 |
| thiago | they're the ones working on the browser, along with another half-dozen in Oslo | 19:44 |
| thiago | what design? show a page full-screen? | 19:44 |
| thiago | with a location bar on the top if you scroll far up? | 19:45 |
| sivang | thiago: mouse cursor gesture does not make sense together with the "swipe" concept. | 19:45 |
| sivang | thiago: e.g. no sane way to turn it on, like on the N900 :-) | 19:45 |
| thiago | sivang: find another gesture | 19:45 |
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| thiago | the N950 supported up to 10 fingers | 19:45 |
| * sivang hopes he'll have enough money to buy an N9. | 19:45 | |
| Stskeeps | swan gesture, browse ecologically | 19:45 |
| thiago | some combination must be available | 19:46 |
| ali1234 | thiago: what's the new browser in symbian anna? it's clearly using a very different rendering engine to the old one | 19:46 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: exactly. | 19:46 |
| thiago | ali1234: I don't know. It's definitely WebKit, but I don't know which of the projects. | 19:46 |
| sivang | ali1234: you get it on your N8? | 19:46 |
| thiago | ali1234: Symbian has used WebKit for 5 years now | 19:47 |
| ali1234 | sivang: no sadly i got it on my C7 which can't be downgraded | 19:47 |
| * sivang needs to turn on the N8 to get the update, since E7 does not show any update whatsoever. | 19:47 | |
| ali1234 | don't bother, it's rubbish | 19:47 |
| ali1234 | just some new icons | 19:47 |
| thiago | ali1234: It might be the "Browser 7" project, "Browser 8" project or "Browser 9" | 19:47 |
| ali1234 | that's it | 19:47 |
| thiago | ali1234: I think 8 and 9 are QtWebKit | 19:47 |
| ali1234 | and a new browser that can't render fonts for toffee | 19:47 |
| sivang | ali1234: you sure? I heard rather an interesting talk in Berlin about Anna and the many fixes and performances boosts it shall bring. | 19:47 |
| ali1234 | yeah that's nonsense | 19:48 |
| sivang | toffee as in the sweet? | 19:48 |
| ali1234 | oh and ovi store doesn't work any more either | 19:48 |
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| ali1234 | it certainly isn't any faster | 19:48 |
| thiago | ali1234: I think that's caused by the Qt upgrade to 4.7; the Ovi Store made use of some non-public APIs and broken behaviour | 19:49 |
| thiago | but I'm sure that was tested before... | 19:49 |
| sivang | ali1234: okay, so back to concentrate on meego (and some harmattan) | 19:49 |
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| sivang | ovi store crashes on my N950 | 19:49 |
| ali1234 | i don't seem to have the same problem with ovi that everyone else is haivng | 19:49 |
| ali1234 | mine loads up but when i try to sign in it just hangs on "loading" | 19:50 |
| sivang | I wish the N9 would have been sold more widely. | 19:50 |
| ali1234 | actually the IM thingy does the same | 19:50 |
| sivang | such a rocking device. | 19:50 |
| ali1234 | so it's a problem with ovi signon in any app | 19:50 |
| sivang | mine crashes :) | 19:50 |
| sivang | thiago: was there a plan where to report harmattan bugs? | 19:50 |
| ali1234 | although the enforced ovi signup on first boot worked | 19:50 |
| sivang | ali1234: this worked for me as well. | 19:51 |
| ali1234 | but i'm still talking about symbian anna :) | 19:51 |
| sivang | oh | 19:51 |
| ali1234 | i don't have a n950 | 19:51 |
| ali1234 | for why you shouldn't upgrade, check my recent posts: https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts | 19:51 |
| sivang | oops | 19:51 |
| thiago | sivang: no clue | 19:52 |
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| sivang | ah, bing | 19:53 |
| sivang | ali1234: ^ | 19:53 |
| sivang | ali1234: so no fonts for you eh? almost like my problem with intel's tablet, just less severe ;) | 19:53 |
| ali1234 | no fonts? | 19:53 |
| ali1234 | no, that's just what it looks like | 19:53 |
| ali1234 | for everyone | 19:53 |
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| sivang | ali1234: what can I say... | 19:54 |
| * sivang shrugs | 19:54 | |
| ali1234 | at least you N8 users have the option to downgrade with service tools | 19:54 |
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| ali1234 | i'm stuck with this rubbish | 19:54 |
| ali1234 | and it will probably be another year before any of it gets fixed | 19:55 |
| sivang | ali1234: I will not update, now that you told me, thanks. | 19:55 |
| sivang | having the N950 is a big comfort. | 19:55 |
| sivang | well, the N9 for that matter. | 19:55 |
| ali1234 | if you desperately want the new icons and theme they are available seperately on modding forums | 19:55 |
| ali1234 | meh, i have a nice android phone | 19:56 |
| ali1234 | shame it crashes once a week | 19:56 |
| ali1234 | and the battery lasts about 4 hours | 19:56 |
| lupine_85 | ovi < * | 19:56 |
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| ali1234 | up until anna, C7 was the best phone i ever used | 19:56 |
| sivang | ali1234: C7 is a great phone, indeed. | 19:57 |
| sivang | I made my ex gf buy it, but then she switched to iPhone | 19:57 |
| ali1234 | and i've used about everything except for iphone | 19:57 |
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| sivang | she could not put with the fact calls were accidentely rejected or answered | 19:57 |
| sivang | ali1234: anyway, 'nough with the renting, better try to do some Qt stuff :) | 19:58 |
| sivang | *ranting | 19:58 |
| ali1234 | i never had that problem on C7. it happened all the time on N900 and WM5 | 19:58 |
| sivang | ali1234: she would press the phone to her chick as well, and the call would get disconnected. | 19:58 |
| ali1234 | android doesn't seem to do it, but i still miss calls because of thegeneral crashing and rubbish battery life | 19:58 |
| sivang | ali1234: cause the proxmity / light sensor threshold is too low | 19:58 |
| ali1234 | ah, i see | 19:59 |
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| sivang | ali1234: I can't take android seriously, seriously now :) | 19:59 |
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| ali1234 | neither can i | 20:00 |
| sivang | ali1234: it is too much half baked for my stomache even compared to the firmware on the N950 :-p | 20:00 |
| ali1234 | it's a nice toy though | 20:00 |
| sivang | ali1234: and the N950 is still not even beta :) | 20:00 |
| sivang | or is it? | 20:00 |
| ali1234 | youtube app and google+ app are great | 20:00 |
| ali1234 | nothing else comes close to how good they are | 20:00 |
| sivang | ali1234: agreed, but someone from Helsinki once showed me how to have all the google apps on Symbian if you want them. | 20:00 |
| ali1234 | unfortunately it is a nicetoy but a rubbish phone | 20:00 |
| sivang | ali1234: as in, google made sis files for most of the apps they have. including maps. | 20:01 |
| ali1234 | i highly doubt they work anywhere near as well | 20:01 |
| sivang | maps surprised me. | 20:01 |
| sivang | really | 20:01 |
| sivang | give it a try. | 20:02 |
| sivang | anywya | 20:02 |
| sivang | be back later. | 20:02 |
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| lcuk | since fractint works on my ideapad | 21:53 |
| lcuk | javispedro mentioned about making pinch/zoom work on it | 21:54 |
| lcuk | but it would be really tricky to do that! | 21:54 |
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| vandenoever | mypaint works quite lovely on the ideapad, a bit slow, but maybe that's because krita is compiling in the background | 21:55 |
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| lcuk | vandenoever, awesome | 21:56 |
| lcuk | where did you get mypaint from? | 21:56 |
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| vandenoever | lcuk: i compiled it (i have gentoo on the exopc), it might be in opensuse too | 21:58 |
| CosmoHill | I think the "thud thud thud" I can hear in the background is V fest | 21:58 |
| lcuk | vandenoever, any reason to not use obs? | 21:59 |
| * lcuk trying to figure out workflow from finding awesome app | 21:59 | |
| lcuk | and getting it onto obs for others | 21:59 |
| vandenoever | lcuk: i have obs too for convenience and meego, but i thought i'd see if compiling for atom makes a difference | 21:59 |
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| lcuk | vandenoever, sure | 21:59 |
| lcuk | if you find time, could you add mypaint onto your repository | 22:00 |
| vandenoever | eh, i mean i have opensuse, not obs, i have obs repositories though | 22:00 |
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| vandenoever | i guess i should look into obs at some point too | 22:00 |
| vandenoever | and with 'i have obs repositories' i mean i *use* them, i do not have my own | 22:01 |
| lcuk | http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS | 22:01 |
| lcuk | when you do ;) | 22:01 |
| vandenoever | last time i tried obs it used it to make a webkit for (odfkit) and that really was too heavy | 22:01 |
| vandenoever | s/for/fork | 22:01 |
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| Stskeeps | webkit's huge | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:04 |
| madsara | Hey, quick one... anyone know where I can add a new menu to meego ivi? I want to add another one, similar to "Navigation" or "Video" | 22:05 |
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| madsara | I know how to add entries under those top level menus, I need another top lvel menu. | 22:06 |
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| madsara | "For now, if you wish to make changes to the menu, like edit and add additional categories, and modify the groups to filter out which application to show up, you'll need to re-compile to plugin" [0]https://meego.com/devices/in-vehicle/in-vehicle-faq#q15 | 22:20 |
| madsara | That's apparently my answer. No biggie though. | 22:20 |
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