IRC log of #meego for Monday, 2011-06-27

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HQRajaAnyone around who uses AndroIRC?01:14
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HQRajaBTW I asked that question in a /amsg so it went to all the channels heh01:17
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cobra-the-jokerhey guys ... Are there any devices comes with meego ?01:38
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CosmoHillnot currently01:40
CosmoHillapart from intel developer devices but iirc even those need a fresh install01:41
cobra-the-jokeraha01:41
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cobra-the-jokerCosmoHill: it is based on linux ... right ?01:44
CosmoHillMeeGo? yes it does use the linux kernel01:44
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cobra-the-jokerwow ... the IVI edition is very amazing01:51
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pixelgeekCongrats lcuk!02:34
SpeedEvil:)02:37
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bonbinkermorning03:01
CosmoHillbleh03:01
* CosmoHill should be asleep03:02
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hiemanshuwhare we congrulating lcuk for?03:16
hiemanshuwhat are we*03:16
DawnFosteron his new baby boy :)03:16
hiemanshuah03:16
hiemanshuhey lcuk congrats :)03:16
SpeedEvilhttp://twitter.com/#!/lcuk03:16
CosmoHilloh sweet03:17
CosmoHilllcuk: congrats indeed03:17
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SpeedEvilAlso congrats to http://twitter.com/#!/teebee76 !03:17
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SpeedEvilhehe. '                  teebee76   Tracy Brooke         ...instead I'm putting the entire season of #Bones onto my n900 so I have something to do later when things are still quiet. #priorities     '03:18
bonbinkertwitter in our country is not access03:18
berndhscongratulations expecially to Mrs Lcuk  http://twitter.com/#!/teebee7603:18
CosmoHillyes, she did most of the hard week03:20
CosmoHillwork*03:20
MohammadAGCongrats lcuk :D03:22
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RhymeswAlcuk: congratulations on your new addition ;))03:30
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* SpeedEvil ponders likely names.03:31
SpeedEvilLequoia?03:31
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km82rthi04:17
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km82rtwhen wanting to develop for the n9 am I supposed to obtain a n950 or is there a n9 developer program?04:19
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GeneralAntillesThe N950 is the N9 developer program right now.04:22
GeneralAntillesThere may or may not be something later.04:22
GeneralAntillesNothing has been announced.04:22
km82rtGeneralAntilles: is it correct that the internal hw is equivalent?04:23
GeneralAntillesAs far as I understand it, mostly.04:23
GeneralAntillesThere's a summary of the relevant differences somewhere04:23
GeneralAntillesNo NFc, for instance.04:23
GeneralAntillesCamera isn't Zeiss branded.04:23
km82rtis resolution ect. also equivalent? Is the n950 running same mix of OS like n9?04:24
km82rtcamera is not relevant for my purposes04:25
km82rtNFC also not04:25
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twoboxenDoes anyone know when the n9 devkits' destinations will be decided?  I know the application deadline is Tuesday, but what of decision timeframes?  Also, will we be able to see winners' project plans?  I would love to know what kinds of things to which to look forward.04:56
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Jay_BEEhi.05:39
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berndhsyo05:41
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Alison_Chaiken"As much as I love Windows Phone 7, it pales in comparison to MeeGo."   -- Myriam "tnkgrl" Joire, about 56 minutes into Engadget Mobile podcast: http://mobile.engadget.com/2011/06/25/engadget-mobile-podcast-093-06-25-2011/07:27
Alison_Chaikentexrat FTW, donor 11 to the Ada Initiative: http://adainitiative.org/sponsors-and-supporters/seed-100-funders/07:29
Alison_ChaikenTake comfort where you can find it, everyone.07:30
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sofarAlison_Chaiken: texrat =! Mike Shaver. easy mistake though, with IRC names :)08:14
bkalingaproblem during  zypper install meego-simulator-launcher-tablet http://pastebin.com/r9YREA9F08:14
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sofarbkalinga: what kind of hardware are you running08:15
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bkalingai dont have any hardware08:16
sofaryou're running something08:16
sofaris it a VM?08:16
bkalingai just took meego-tablet-ia32-mfld-1.2.0.90.0.20110517.82.ks file created the image .img08:16
bkalingaand trying to chroot to it08:17
sofarmfld is specific hardware08:17
sofarare you sure you want that image?08:17
sofarperhaps you need to download a more generic image, like the pinetrail one08:17
bkalingai am not sure whether i need to use this or not08:17
sofarwhat system are you doing the chroot/build on?08:18
bkalingai want some tablet related .ks file08:18
bkalingaUbuntu 10.04 is my host08:18
sofaron what type of system?08:18
sofarhardware wise?08:18
bkalingadon't have any hardware but i am trying to build for tablet now08:19
sofarum08:19
bkalingaso i want to Xephyr now for emulation purpose08:19
sofarwhat CPU are you going to emulate in Xephyr?08:20
sofarARM? sparc?08:20
bkalingaARM08:20
sofarthere are no ARM kickstart files yet, nor are there ARM images out yet08:21
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sofaryou downloaded an 'MFLD' image08:21
sofardo you know what that is?08:21
bkalingai dont know what is exactly MFLD is but i want to have a chroot environment08:22
sofarwhat is the CPU type of the system where you are setting up "a chroot environment"?08:23
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bkalingasofar: i am not getting what are you asking08:24
bkalingasee i downloaded MeeGo SDK 1.2 and used QEMU08:24
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sofarjust type `grep model\ name /proc/cpuinfo`08:25
bkalingathat is very slow and MeeGo1.2 SDK missed some development lib and headers08:25
sofarreally, my question is really simple08:25
bkalingaso i though of creating my own image and chroot to it08:25
sofarwhat is the CPU type of the system where you are setting up "a chroot environment"?08:25
sofarlike08:25
bkalingamodel name: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU           W3505  @ 2.53GHz08:26
bkalingamodel name: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU           W3505  @ 2.53GHz08:26
sofaratom? core2? amd?08:26
sofarthere, see, not so hard?08:26
bkalingacore208:26
sofaryou have a generic x86 cpu08:26
bkalingacorrect08:26
sofaryou need to use the pinetrail kickstart/images08:26
sofaruse the stuff from here:08:26
sofarhttp://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.5.20110624.86/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/08:26
sofarnotice that it says "pinetrail"08:26
sofaror, you can get the pinetrail sdk images instead08:27
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bkalingaok thanks and coming your question what is missing in MeeGo1.208:27
bkalingadefault sdk images does not have some library which is needed08:27
bkalingafor development activity08:27
sofarwhich library is missing?08:27
bkalingaX related  libX-dev something like this08:28
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bkalingabut there is no way to update once you downloaded your SDK08:28
bkalingai took MeeGo1.2 SDK (tablet )08:29
bkalingaand git clone of meegotouch-keyboard08:29
bkalingathen try to compile using meego-sdk-qtcreator08:29
sofarsounds like it would be worth a bugreport on bugs.meego.com08:30
bkalinganow it complains lib-X-dev is not there08:30
bkalingaso from this how a developer would include this dependency in the SDK?08:30
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bkalingaI think its not worth to include everything that is why by default MeeGo SDK does not include everything..08:32
sofarunfortunately I'm not aware of how the SDK works, sorry08:32
bkalinga sofar: One more question ..My host system is having Nvidia Graphics card08:32
bkalingacan i use this Chrooted way of development activity using Xephyr?08:33
sofaryou can, but you may run into issues actually using the software in graphics mode08:33
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bkalingawhat do you mean by software in graphics mode08:34
bkalinga sofar: all are suggesting don't take binaries from http://download.meego.com/ better take from repo.meego.com08:35
sofarexactly what I said. I'm sorry if you do not understand.08:35
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sofarbkalinga: shrug, the language barrier is not helping us.08:36
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bkalingasofar: still i got a lot of info and help from you08:37
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bkalingasofar: i got it now by "but you may run into issues actually using the software in graphics mode" you meant "Software-based graphics acceleration" that time09:07
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bkalinga i chrooted to this image after downloading it http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.5.20110621.5/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.2.0.90.5.20110621.5.img10:14
bkalingaand installed qt-creator10:14
bkalingabut i don't see any Qt Verions by default10:14
bkalingaalso don't see any qmake available in the   chroot file system10:15
bkalingacan someone please point out what is missing10:15
vvaltonemaybe it doesn't have the compiler & qt devel installed?10:18
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bkalingai installed qt devel10:26
bkalingaand qt-qmake10:26
bkalingabut i see auto detected Qt in PATH /usr/bin/qmake10:27
bkalingabelow i see Qt version is not properly installed10:27
bkalingaplease run make install10:27
bkalingavvaltone: any pointer what is missing10:28
bkalingawhy by default these stuffs are not there10:28
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bkalingavvaltone: any idea where i need to run this make install(for whom)10:29
Termanamorning10:29
vvaltoneI think it means the qt source tree10:29
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vvaltoneI have compiled stuff in the chroot but not recently10:30
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bkalingawhy to compile ..if we can install it using zypper10:34
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vvaltoneno, it probably means you need some package installed10:35
bkalingavaltone: do i need to installed anything other than qt devel10:35
bkalinga and qt-qmake10:35
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bkalingaQtCore will be part of which package?10:42
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sioveneHello. Is build.meego.com not building packages for anyone else today?10:55
sioveneI've committed change to my package with osc, but the build won't start.10:55
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MSM^10:57
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hiemanshusiovene: well I remember someone shutting down arm builds for a while10:58
hiemanshuor something like that10:58
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iekkumorning11:01
siovenehiemanshu: I get that for all targets.11:01
sioveneMy build logs are still the same as the previous commit I did, on Jun 23th.11:02
hiemanshusiovene: then I am unsure what is wrong11:02
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sioveneHere's the project page, if it helps anyone: http://goo.gl/4Cp5w11:03
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sioveneEven clicking "trigger rebuild" won't do it.11:06
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niqthi11:06
niqtI'm not getting mail from Meego lists since yesteday; is this possible?11:07
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sioveneniqt: me too.11:07
sioveneThe last email I got was on meego-commits on Saturday.11:08
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sioveneNothing yesterday or today.11:08
niqtit' stange11:09
niqtstrange11:09
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bkalingacan i safely deletes all file in my /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/cache/  ?11:51
LunohoDis there any good pdf/djvu viewer for meego?11:52
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lcukRhymeswA MohammadAG berndhs cosmohill hiemanshu DawnFoster pixelgeek - little lcuk says "w000t"12:03
hiemanshulcuk: pics :D12:04
lcukhiemanshu, easy!12:05
lcukHello World! http://liqbase.net/20110627_012.jpg        http://twitter.com/lcuk/status/8525809369232588912:05
hiemanshulcuk: awwww, so cute :)12:05
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vvaltoneteaching programming yet?12:06
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lcukvvaltone, me and luke had him sat on a bmx earlier12:06
lcukbut his training will have to wait until his feet can reach the peddles12:06
SpeedEvillcuk: Congrats to you and your good lady! :)12:08
SpeedEvil:)12:08
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omcfaddehi, who is responsible for creating the build system accounts? (I would ask on the dev channel, but I guess it's invite only)12:24
X-Fadeomcfadde: Core OBS?12:24
omcfaddeyes12:24
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X-Fadeomcfadde: Then you need to file a bug, requesting an account. Explaining what you are planning to do with it.12:25
omcfaddeX-Fade: I have done this, but perhaps the response time is longer than a few days12:25
Jay_BEEblah... I should not have consumed this energy drink... guess I'll watch another video from the recent MeeGo conference12:26
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X-Fadeomcfadde: Maybe ping them again then?12:27
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omcfaddeI bumped the bug just a few mins ago12:27
omcfaddebut tbh I don't think anyone is monitoring those bugs.12:27
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omcfaddebtw, is the dev channel masked on an nat/intel hostmask? I'm ssh'ed to my server then to my laptop at home :p12:29
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omcfaddeI received: [freenode] -!- Cannot join to channel #meego-dev (You are banned)12:29
SpeedEvilomcfadde: I'm showing up as banned too12:29
SpeedEvil(just tried joining)12:30
bkalingaDo i need to explicitly link my binary to  libQtServiceFramework even after giving  CONFIG   += mobility MOBILITY =  serviceframework in my .pro file?12:30
TermanaSpeedEvil, that's just cause your not special12:30
omcfaddeyeah. my guess is you either have to be coming from an intel ip range, or be on an explicit allow list12:30
omcfaddeor both, just to be evil12:30
TermanaNo12:31
Termana#meego-dev was shut down12:31
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bossTermana: Error: "meego-dev" is not a valid command.12:31
lardmanmorning12:31
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omcfaddeTermana: oh, nice of them to update the wiki12:32
omcfadde(I won't update it, because I'm out of the loop on this issue)12:32
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Termanaomcfadde, they did12:33
Termanahttp://wiki.meego.com/Community_communication#MeeGo_IRC_Channels12:33
sebashey, I'm trying to register a meego OBS account, but fail. Docs on http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers#How_to_get_started seem outdated, the 3rd step just gets me to a password prompt. Any hints?12:33
Termanaomcfadde, what page did they not update?12:33
omcfaddehttp://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Packagers_Developers12:33
omcfadde"If you need help, you can join #meego or #meego-dev on irc.freenode.net . See also this page about all MeeGo IRC channels. "12:33
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omcfaddebbl, some long long meeting.12:34
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sebasX-Fade, lbt: would one of you open my account ("sebas") for the community build service? I'm a KDE Plasma hacker12:56
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lbtsebas: done12:59
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sebaslbt: thanks a lot!13:00
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lardmanlcuk: congrats btw13:12
Jay_BEEcongrats lcuk13:13
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Jay_BEEgn to all13:13
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pebcaklcuk gratz and... do you have big enough coffeecups? :D13:17
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lcukpebcak, no, why?13:51
lcuklardman, \o jayne13:51
lcukjay_bee even13:52
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lcukaww cute, bug 18357 has new terminology entering the lexicon14:01
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18357 nor, Undecided, ---, ziv.chang, NEW, [CE] Wrong picture displayed in photoviewer after rotating from portrait to landscape.14:01
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lardmanhey lcuk14:04
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lcuklardman, \o14:09
lcuklardman, with the n9 having the fastest camera on any device14:09
lardmanI see from Facebook that congrats are in order?14:09
lcukwouldn't it be nice to have a great barcode scanning plugin !14:09
lcukyes14:09
lcuktracy did well!14:10
lardmanlcuk: indeed it would14:10
lardmanpass on our best wishes to her please :)14:10
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* lcuk stood around and wiped her brow14:10
lcukI will, tis peaceful this morning14:10
lardmanlcuk: I'm planning to pull out the decode part, and then let people use that alone, or with a camera/video wrapper14:10
lardmanthen wrap the whole thing in a Qt Quick GUI14:11
lcuksounds reasonable14:11
lcuklardman, if you had desktop spec processing and a fast high resolution video camera14:11
lcukcould you do barcode scanning of a whole conveyor belt?14:12
lardmanall at once?14:12
lcukwell some will be yeah14:12
lardmanperhaps, high res means more pixels to crunch, but sure it would be doable14:12
lcukbut assume orientation of the codes is towards the camera14:12
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lcuki am more interested in the continuous stream of code, and more specifically their location rather than indepth contents14:13
lardmanif you can lower the res to a level where you know you have sufficient pixels for a barcode at the known range, then that would make life easier for the CPU14:13
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lcukyeah of course14:13
lardmanSome of the decoders offer location, not sure the ones I'm using do atm14:14
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lcukyeah since 2d barcodes and AR are related fields14:14
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cojackhttp://www.hs.fi/english/article/Nokia+CEO+Stephen+Elop+rules+out+possible+comeback+of+MeeGo/113526717993214:14
cojackis that true?14:14
lardmanbut I'm thinking quite seriuously of trying out the ZXing C++ port14:14
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lcukwere barcodes around when we had ZX spectrums?14:15
cojackguys, any one know about feature of meego?14:15
lcukcojack, meego is not specifially tied to any one company14:15
lardmanlcuk: only with dedicated hw scanners14:15
cojacklcuk: but nokia which intel have provide them14:17
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cojackif nokia wont any more implement meego in self phones, meego is dead right now :(14:19
siovenecojack: what makes you think so? MeeGo doesn't need Nokia.14:20
vvaltoneN9 isn't really MeeGo anyway14:22
cojackwho else will implement meego in his phone?14:22
vvaltonethere's tablets coming14:23
vvaltonehttp://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/acer-unveils-meego-tablet-running-on-intel-atom-cpu/14:23
cojacktablets... dude Im poor :D14:23
cojackhahaha :P14:23
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thiagoothers can make phones too14:25
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cojackI had hope that meego will have a great future, I gues android will die because patents breaker by google, and meego will take his place, but it didn't happend any more ;(14:26
vvaltoneConsidering what's been said about N9, wouldn't be surprised14:26
* cojack stupid ideologic14:26
vvaltonejust stop selling android phones in the us14:27
cojackand lost half costumers ?14:27
vvaltoneus is quite small14:28
vvaltonemore potential for growth in Europe and Asia14:28
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pebcaklcuk I needed bigger coffeecups after my son was born...14:31
pebcakby now I have 800ml coffeecups, he is 10 ;)14:31
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lcukpebcak, lol14:36
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rockworldmi has anyone tried installing meego on N8.???16:03
dm8tbrnot possible, ktxnext16:03
iekku:)16:03
iekkurockworldmi, N900 is only Nokia phone where you can run MeeGo16:03
rockworldmik...16:04
rockworldmiiekku: have you tried porting it on any other mobile than N900 or aava.16:05
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iekkurockworldmi, no16:06
vvaltonedm8tbr, Only a question of someone really wanting to do that ;P16:06
vvaltoneand having too much time16:06
dm8tbrrockworldmi: there will be most likely a community edition for the N9 and N95016:06
iekkudm8tbr, but those aren't available yet16:06
dm8tbrvvaltone: I have no idea about the N8, but if it uses HS silicon like the N900 or N9 then you're screwed16:07
iekku(almost said onsale, but N950 isn't going to be...)16:07
vvaltoneoh, right, the encryption keys16:07
dm8tbriekku: correct, hence implied future tense16:07
rockworldmikernel?16:07
iekkudm8tbr, i think if it were doable, someone had done it already16:08
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Tronicrockworldmi: Other phones (including N8) are locked down and would need to be jailbreaked to start with.16:08
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dm8tbriekku: *nod*16:08
Tronicrockworldmi: There appears to be very little interest from anyone to do so.16:08
thiagothe N8 is not an ARMv716:08
thiagowe haven't got an ARMv6 build16:09
rockworldmithere is a whole community in India who are interested in it16:09
rockworldmi:)16:09
thiagostart by rebuilding everything and by installing something on that device16:09
rockworldmithiago hmm16:09
w00tthere was an ARMv5 build, though, which might be resurrectable16:09
ShadowJKwhat was the armv5 build for..16:10
thiagonoting16:10
thiagonothing16:10
thiagowe didn't use it for anything16:10
dm8tbrcarsten was playing around with it IIRC16:10
w00tit was considered a minimum baseline, at the time16:10
w00tand was used for things like N8x016:10
w00t"used" as in experimentation with, I should say16:10
w00tit never really went far16:11
ShadowJKisn't N8x0 armv6..16:11
w00tI doubt that influenced the choice16:11
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w00tlike I said, I think at the time that it was just considered a sensible baseline16:11
thiagoyes, it is ARMv616:12
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rockworldmik16:15
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TronicIs there something non-trivial about making ARMv6 build?16:21
thiagono16:21
TronicOne would expect that to be about changing a compile flag and possibly altering boot loader code...16:21
thiagojust requires time and processing power16:21
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TronicThen of course there is the matter of actually supporting the hardware that N8 has.16:22
TronicDisplay, audio, camera, etc.16:22
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rockworldmihmmm:tronic16:23
rbilI'm  using MeeGo 1.2 netbook and it keeps losing my facebook chat settings.  Can  I fix this somehow?16:23
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Tronicrockworldmi: So, to summarize, I'll quote dm8tbr: 16:03 < dm8tbr> not possible, ktxnext16:24
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rockworldmitr16:28
rockworldmithanks16:28
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rbilwhere does empathy store its connection settings?16:36
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rbilok, found where empathy stores account settings:  .mission-control/accounts     but it doesn't save the facebook  chat there.  must be written somewhere?16:45
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rockworldmi  I am a noob plz educate me on all this.or provide references16:48
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gabrbeddrockworldmi: educate you on what?17:07
rockworldmiARM,jailbreaks..etc..17:08
slainegabrbedd, why we haven't ported to the N8 basically17:08
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gabrbeddrockworldmi: Sorry, I can't help with that.  (I live in x86 world)17:11
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fiferboylcuk: Love the name!17:46
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jboshey, i wonder is there a AI or inkscape toolkit also for meego ux?17:51
jbosi found the one from nokia qt components which helps a lot for simply tryinging out ui designs17:51
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gabrbeddlcuk: fiferboy: what's the name?17:56
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fiferboygabrbedd: Looks like "Finn", although I don't know the long form17:57
fiferboyMy oldest son is named Finn, short for Finnian17:57
JaffaFinlay17:58
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* timoph is in control18:08
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fiferboyDo people with QML experience here prefer using the deisgn view or making the interface programatically?18:08
timoph(experimenting writing Qt/qml app without actually writing any QML files)18:09
fiferboyBecause I just can't get the hang of creating a QML interface with the design view18:09
alteregofiferboy: I don't like the designer either ;)18:09
timophI tried the designer but ended up just writing the stuff myself18:09
alteregoBut then, I don't like designers at all anyway.18:09
* timoph nods18:09
fiferboyI found the QWidget designer to be ok for most stuff, but still did some programatic layout anyway18:10
fiferboyalterego: I will give writing it a chance18:10
fiferboyI am about to give up on that designer anyway18:10
timophit's not really that intuitive to use18:11
Jaffafiferboy: I found the design view broke very quickly18:11
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fiferboyOk, I'm glad it's not just me then :)18:12
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timophthiago: some feedback to the Qt creator guys ^18:12
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alteregoThis is a bit of a pain in the ass, I wonder when we find out about whether we have or have not been accepted for the N950 DDP18:16
alteregoAnd if not, there are two days from tomorrows deadline to the 31st which is the Nokia Developer deadline.18:16
timophdunno. the deadline is tomorrow so hopefully soon after that18:17
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alteregoDoesn't give us much of a chance to try our luck with the Nokia Developer site if we're rejected.18:17
timophyep18:17
fiferboyalterego: Is the Nokia Developer site taking applications for people with "individual" accounts?18:18
alteregofiferboy: should do.18:18
fiferboyIt wasn't when I looked right after the announcement on swipe.nokia.com18:18
alteregohttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo18:18
timophso you need to be a proven commercial dev there?18:18
alteregoNope18:18
alteregoDoesn't read that way to me.18:19
* timoph checks18:19
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alterego"qualifying Nokia Developer Launchpad members who have published apps to Ovi Store, or have started to develop their apps using Qt"18:19
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fiferboyalterego: Ah, you have to email a request.  I was trying on my developer.nokia.com account18:20
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Jaffaalterego: I've emailed both.18:20
Jaffaalterego: Or rather, gone through both.18:21
alteregoJaffa: oh, okay.18:21
* alterego considers doing the same.18:21
Jaffaalterego: As you pointed out, the meego.com DDP is going to end up at Nokia Developer anyway18:21
alteregoYeah18:21
Jaffaalterego: And I think folks like Ronan are involved in both aspects.18:21
alteregoWell, the review process isn't handled by Nokia Developer though18:21
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fiferboyYeah, you cannot apply through the "Developer Launchpad homepage (for member individuals only)"18:21
alteregoSo the community 250 devices are reviewed by Quim et al. Then we get given a code to use on the site.18:21
fiferboyYou'll have to go the email route18:22
fiferboyalterego: The developer.nokia.com deadline is JULY 31, lots of time still :)18:23
timoph:)18:23
alteregofiferboy: but not if you're waiting for confirmation through the MeeGo.com DDP ;)18:23
fiferboyalterego: There is over a month between the two deadlines18:24
alteregoOh, wait, you're right :D18:25
alteregoSorry, I was reading July and was thinking June :P18:25
timoph"Don't panic"18:25
* alterego will wait patiently then :D18:25
slaineIs there anyway to develop for NFC stuff on the N950 ?18:26
alteregoslaine: presumably the stuff is there, it just wont work :)18:26
alteregoSo no, if you plan on testing it.18:26
Jaffaslaine: Develop? Yes. Test? No ;-)18:26
JaffaWhat alterego said.18:26
fiferboyI'll wait patiently AFTER the DDP announcements18:27
slaineThat's the thing, I guess you'd need an actual N9 to deploy on18:27
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timophthis way they make you also buy the n918:27
fiferboyUntil then I am going crazy18:27
JaffaI wonder how well cross-platform QMLey stuff with NFC will work. Wife's C7 + an N9 + loads of the stickers18:27
alteregotimoph: Quim already stated that the N950 DDP lucky people could trade it for an N9 on release.18:27
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alteregoThe C7 has NFC?18:27
Jaffaalterego: I believe so.18:28
smokutimoph: "also"? you're not obliged to get N950 ;-)18:28
timophalterego: oh. I Missed that but most likely won't do that if I get the n95018:28
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Jaffaalterego: http://www.nearfieldcommunicationsworld.com/2010/10/11/34643/nokia-c7-to-support-nfc/18:28
alteregotimoph: well, I'm still undecided, the fact is the N950 will get no support and probably will be quite behind updates.18:28
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timophalterego: my plan is to buy the n9 in any case18:28
alteregoAt least with an N9, even without warranty, you'll get slightly better support.18:29
Jaffaalterego: As I remembered, Angry Birds Magic is on the C7 http://www.nfcrumors.com/05-30-2011/nokia-c7-nfc-angry-birds-magic/18:29
alteregotimoph: mine to, if I have to :)~18:29
timoph:)18:29
alteregoJaffa: sweet, wish I'd asked for a C7 instead of an N8 now :P18:29
alteregoOr maybe I should have asked for both ..18:29
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alteregoInteresting, quim said there were roughly 3x the 250 devices currently registered :D18:33
alteregoSo currently 1/3 chance :P18:34
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Jaffaalterego: I think the average chance for someone who read that is higher ;-)18:34
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alteregoHahah18:34
alteregoYeah, you're probably right.18:34
alteregoI don't know whether to be impressed with that estimate of applicants or let down by the lack of interest ;)18:35
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* CosmoHill shakes his fist and people who join, say something and leave because nobody replied within 23 seconds18:35
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alteregoActually ~750 is a lot I guess, especially as the whole point is FOSS ..18:35
CosmoHillat*18:35
Jaffaalterego: Most of them will be "I can haz toi, plz?!11! kthxbai"18:36
slaineA lot of people probably haven't bothered signing up though, thinking they wouldn't get one anyway18:36
* slaine being one of them18:36
alteregoJaffa: I'm sure they'll word it a little better "I can hav toy and test for bugz?"18:36
* alterego chuckles18:36
timophCosmoHill: you're too slow :p18:36
Jaffaslaine: Given the comments on Engadget about "sign up here to get one", I suspect you've got a better chance than them...18:36
slainerofl18:36
slaineProbably18:36
w00thahaha18:36
* w00t applied, anyway18:37
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* SpeedEvil applied.18:37
alteregoI made a point of not openly publicising the DDP on twitter or facebook :P18:37
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SpeedEvilThough I'm unsure how well I'll fare as my slant is more platform than app dev18:37
jonwilI have no plans to apply, I dont want a developer device18:37
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* jonwil is quite happy with his N90018:37
w00tSpeedEvil: that's mine, too18:37
alteregoSpeedEvil: mine is both, but as of late it has been more platform/app-dev18:37
* SpeedEvil applies for jonwil.18:37
alteregoI guess dialer is platform imo18:37
alteregoAnd dialer is also quite useless on an N9/5018:38
w00talterego: why?18:38
alteregoBut Columbus, this gives me a new reason to update the entire UX to run on N9/50/00 Maemo5/HArmattan & MeeGo :)18:38
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Jaffaalterego: Columbus is cool18:38
alteregow00t: because the N9 already has a dialer, and it's not ofono based :P18:39
alteregos/N9/Harmattan18:39
w00twell, I also don't plan to leave harmattan on there too long18:39
SpeedEvilI'm getting the impression that much 'interesting' stuff will difficult, depending on how aegis is configured and implemented, and how the nokia process for approving apps works in practice.18:39
alteregow00t: I wouldn't advertise that ;)18:39
w00talterego: I said pretty much exactly that in my application18:39
w00twhether or not that affects my chances, I don't care18:39
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alteregow00t: yeah, I pretty much did as well.18:39
w00tI want to get stock, open source MeeGo on there18:39
alteregotbh, I will use the N950 to develop Columbus to be proper cross-platform. But once that is done, the N9 is out, I'll get an N9, use HArmattan on that and use the N950 for MeeGo CE18:40
fiferboyw00t: That would be good for MeeGo and the N9/50, but whether the DDP people feel that...18:40
w00tI love harmattan a lot, but having code I can poke at means a lot more to me than the UI18:40
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* rzr is facing keyring issue can you help : http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=23699#post2369918:40
w00tfiferboy: I don't really see them as conflicting aims, but we'll see, anyway18:41
alteregoLuckily, the N900 has given us a headstart at getting MeeGo on the N9/50, so now, effectively, we have another year until users start complaining about lack of support and "Where's MeeGo officiall support version blah blah"18:41
alteregoI think we can do a lot in the next year ..18:41
SpeedEvil'a year' ?18:41
SpeedEvilI thought there were claims n9 was launching in sep.18:42
alteregoSpeedEvil: a year until N9/50 users start whining about lack of MEeGo18:42
SpeedEvilIn certain places18:42
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SpeedEvilOh18:42
alteregoSpeedEvil: yes, I'm talking about a year after it's released when Nokia drop it :P18:42
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fiferboyw00t: I don't either - I think it would be great for everybody involved18:43
snowpongmaybe Engadget could fund further N9 development - they (finally) seem to genuinely like something coming out of Nokia for once :D18:43
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w00tsnowpong: I know, I'm amazed :P18:43
fiferboyw00t: But I get the feeling they they want Harmattan furthered by this program18:43
alteregoHahah, Engadget fund something?18:43
snowpong=D18:43
berndhsperhaps Nokia will spin off the N9 software development group18:43
* berndhs ducks18:43
alteregoberndhs: you mean give them the sack?18:43
CosmoHilla sack of potatoes?18:44
berndhssell them into slavery as a unit :P18:44
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alteregoteeheehee18:46
thiagolook at the slides from feb11. The unit will be kept, at a reduced capacity.18:46
alteregoA unit around Qt mostly I imagine.18:46
alteregoAnd possibly Linux, but not MeeGo ..18:47
thiagono, separate18:47
thiagoQt is in a different unit already18:47
thiagohas always been. The Qt dev team was never part of MeeGo.18:47
alteregoMaybe @selop was saying no more MeeGo to make people think there will be no more MeeGo so more people will look "forward" to MS Windows Phone18:48
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berndhsmaybe I should apply for a 950,...18:48
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alteregoOr maybe, Windows Phone 8 is MeeGo compliant!18:49
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berndhssure, for fairly small values of compliant, why not18:49
alteregoStick Qt on it18:50
alteregoThere you go18:50
* alterego chuckles18:50
alteregoI heard Qt was being ported to Windows Phone18:52
alteregoMaybe that is the "next billion"18:52
rzrwhat about qt support on wince6- ?18:52
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smokurzr: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.4/install-wince.html ?18:53
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thiagoor 4.718:53
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thiagobut yeah, it's been supported since 4.418:53
rzronly 5.0 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/install-wince.html18:54
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rzrnot 618:54
thiagoce6 too18:54
rzrreally ?18:54
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gabrbeddfiferboy: thanks19:03
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timophhmmh. are meego mailing lists broken? no new mails in 2 days19:07
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hiemanshuyeah, there seems to a problem with that and someone reported something about OBS as well19:08
andre__timoph, yeah, I am also waiting for some of my usual rants to pop up... ;-)19:09
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timophandre__: good that someone brings those issues up. cheers for doing that19:10
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andre__on the other hand, if they stay broken for a few more days I can finally simply change/fix everything I want, as per my default "silence means compliance" footer :-D19:10
timoph:D19:10
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andre__timoph: heh, you're welcome. I hope I am / can stay constructive. see my latest blogpost on planet meego for a summary so far...19:11
lcukthe weather today is +40 scorchio19:11
alteregoInteresting results: http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/26/nokia-n9-are-you-buying-one/19:11
alterego22.0% say yes, 42% say they're to involved in their current platforms/oses/ecosystems19:12
timophlcuk: congrats \o/19:12
lcukthanks timoph19:12
w00ti am dying in this heat19:12
w00t:P19:12
lcukit was hard work mopping her brow and telling her to push :D19:13
alteregolcuk: Hah19:13
SpeedEvilw00t: Get a large freezer, a small double glazed window, a laptop and a cushion.19:13
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alteregoIt's cooled down here now, looks like it might get a bit stormy later.19:13
w00ti was earlier pondering if I can fit in my freezer19:13
SpeedEvilw00t: Place cushion in freezer, cut hole in side, put window in. Get in with laptop.19:13
w00ti think it's a bit small, but by god i'm tempted to try19:13
lcukwhy do you need a window?  light from laptop19:14
SpeedEvilw00t: Cooling pads can be great.19:14
w00ti'm not sure if i can fit special in with me, though19:14
alteregoI've got a freezer that'd fit you in it, collections welcome, 50 GBP :P19:14
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lcukw00t, with irc we can all be in there with you19:14
alteregoHeh19:14
w00tthat's creepy19:14
w00twhat are you doing in my freezer, lcuk, get out you don't even belong19:14
lcukwhat is, 485 people in a freezer19:14
alteregoHeh: <lcuk> w00t: what are you wearing?19:14
lcukor the fact alterego is renting his out19:14
w00tlol19:15
lcuklol19:15
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specialw00t: it's not even hot.19:15
alteregoI think the heat must be making us all dilerious.19:15
specialI finally took off my sweater a few hours ago19:15
w00tspecial: shut up, you're defective19:15
alterego31 degrees here apparently.19:15
lcukspeak for yourself19:15
andre__that's the advantage of a home office as long as you don't switch on your webcam.19:16
alteregoHeh19:16
lcukandre__, you can switch on the webcam but keep it focused above shoulder height19:16
specialw00t: your country is defective, if this is the worst it can manage.19:16
lcukspecial, where are you?19:16
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speciallcuk: w00t's couch.19:16
lcukahh you are in Hull then19:17
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lcukdeffo defective country! :P19:17
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lcukoh no19:17
andre__lcuk, as it's you requesting it I might even consider it. :-P19:18
lcukon days like this I can understand desire to wear a skirt errr kilt19:18
lcuki am being corrected on use of "soccer/football"19:19
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alteregoemail traffic is super low today ..19:21
alteregoI'm actually kinda bored.19:21
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lcukemail will pickup, it has been an odd week19:23
alteregoWow, those N9s look expensive now :D19:23
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lcukto implement alt-tab switching for general meego netbook19:23
lcukand for n900-ce19:23
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lcuki have (before hospital) made a test patch in liqbase and can demonstrate it working well with just minor patch19:24
lcukmaking similar patch in the window manager on netbook would be an interesting test19:24
alteregoI reckon the N9 will retail in the UK for 499 :/19:24
alteregoThat is expensive.19:24
Jaffaalterego: For the 16 or 64 GB one?19:25
* Jaffa reckons 429gbp for 16 and 499 for 6419:25
lcukthe n9 is sexy hardware certainly19:25
lcukquestion19:25
alteregoJaffa 6419:25
lcukwhen microsoft release searay will it have same openness19:25
lcukie ability to flash meego onto it19:26
lcukbecause that camera button is a desirable addon19:26
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thiagosearay was a codename for a meego device, along with half a dozen others19:26
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lcukok thiago the n9 with windows phone on it19:26
lcukwhatever its internal technical name19:27
lcukthere is the n9 without a camera button19:27
lcukand the microsoft one with19:27
alteregoJaffa: 16G model looks set to be 399 -> 42919:27
alteregoWe always pay more than the Americans.19:27
alteregoSo I'm inclined to think 429+19:27
alteregoWhich is just silly imo19:28
alteregoBut we'll see.19:28
Jaffaalterego: Yeah, it when I think that's more than my iPad 2 that'll I'll consider not buying it19:28
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alteregoJaffa: well, like we were saying earlier, at least if you have an N950 you can trade for N9, and/or apply to the possibly and hopefully future N9 Community Device Programme ..19:29
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alteregoIs the N950 32G?19:29
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Jaffaalterego: I believe so19:30
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alteregoTough choices all around really.19:30
* Jaffa would like to buy one to support it19:30
alteregoI bet the trade would be a N950 for a 16G pink N9 too :P19:30
hell)19:31
alteregoSame here, but that is pretty expensive.19:31
alteregoI suppose I have a contract up for renewel ;)19:31
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fralsalterego: wouldnt count on it being 3219:31
Jaffafrals: Oh?19:32
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fralsJaffa: ye, guess achipa or someone like that could confirm how much it is19:32
fralssince the one i have isnt the final one.. :p19:33
alteregoHeh19:33
Jaffafrals: How much does the one you have have?19:33
frals1619:33
alteregofrals: so 16 is possible?19:33
alteregolame :/19:33
fralsalterego: i dont see why more is needed for *development* ;)19:33
Jaffafrals: You want developers to switch to it as their primary device :-p19:33
alteregoMight use an N8 for media player then.19:33
fralsalterego: if you wuld want to store your music collection on it its a different matter ;)19:33
alteregofrals: exactly my point19:34
alteregoAnd all those 720, videos ...19:34
Jaffafrals: If devs don't use it as their music player, how will they suddenly think of the perfect music player companion app? :p19:34
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fralsalterego: i was going to keep my n900 as mediaplayer, but turns out... im only using one device ;)19:34
alteregoHah19:34
alteregoCool19:34
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fralsnot having any videos on there thou19:34
alteregofrals: is yours a black or silver model?19:34
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delacis there any meta package or zypper pattern to install QML related stuff?19:38
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fralsalterego: ive only ever seen black N950s, whats this silver model you speak of? :P19:39
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andyrossdelac: QML is just part of qt (probably "qt-declarative" if I had to guess at the package name, but I'm sure it's already installed).  You want the meego-qml-launcher app maybe?19:41
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lcukfrals, deny all knowledge!19:42
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berndhsyou get a black one and you paint it, what's the problem ?19:42
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delacandyross: I have a strange problem. For some reason I get a error: qrc:///mapviewer.qml:74:17: Cannot assign to non-existent property "onPositionChanged".19:45
delacandyross: and I wonder if I'm missing some package or something19:45
alterego"There are over 100 million Qt powered devices, and the N9 shows the way to the future"19:46
alteregoInteresting quote there ..19:47
Jaffaalterego: URL?19:47
andyrossThis property?  That's just on MouseArea: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qml-mousearea.html#onPositionChanged-signal19:47
andyrossYou sure you don't have more errors?  The component it's in is indeed a MouseArea?19:47
alteregoJaffa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU8kYwqZKgM&feature=player_detailpage#t=798s19:47
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Jaffaalterego: Oh, yes - there were a few interesting terms there. Like Elop saying "this is the result of our MeeGo work"19:49
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alteregoJaffa: yeah, that's a bit more depressing and less, erm, meaningful :D19:50
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delacandyross: no, it seems to be in MapMouseArea, which doesn't have that member... But this is example from the qt-mobility package!?19:51
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andyrossUnfortunately I'm lost without time to read the source code.  But this could be version skew: does the example match the built QtMobility version?19:53
delacandyross: yes, it should19:53
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delacandyross: and this example does work on the simulator...19:54
andyrossI'd check again.  A quick google shows this as (I think) the current source for that demo, and it's using MouseArea: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility/declarative-location-mapviewer-mapviewer-qml.html19:56
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delacandyross: I'm using 1.2. http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/declarative-location-mapviewer-mapviewer-qml.html19:59
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delacandyross: also the mobility stuff on meego seems to be 1.220:00
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* fiferboy tries to remain productive while waiting for DDP news...20:06
alteregoPrototyping new Columbus UX in QML20:06
SpeedEvilArgh. Just got a email from developer@nokia.com - silly spam.20:07
alteregoIn 20 minutes I've pretty much made it functionally equivalent O_o20:07
SpeedEvil:)20:07
TSCHAKeeecolumbus UX?20:07
alteregoTSCHAKeee: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/index.html20:08
alteregoThat is QWidget based.20:08
TSCHAKeeeoh om20:08
TSCHAKeeeok20:09
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alteregoTSCHAKeee: looks a bit dated now, after seeing all the super transitions and effects you can do in QML realy easily.20:09
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alteregoOf course, I could do them all in Qt Animation Framework, but QML means I can target multiple platforms properly :)20:09
fiferboyalterego: I really need to convert a QWidget UI to QML20:10
alteregofiferboy: what app?20:10
TSCHAKeeeafter spending time with qml20:10
TSCHAKeeei can't stand QWidget20:10
fiferboyalterego: Did you do it in such a way that you can run either QWidget or QML depending on the system?20:10
TSCHAKeeebut god damn, trying to massage our STL based DCE stuff (data models and the like) to be exposed via QML is proving to really hurt.20:10
fiferboyalterego: Birdlist - http://andrew.olmsted.ca20:11
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MohammadAGI also need to convert QWidget to QML20:11
alteregofiferboy: the UXs will be plugins20:11
alteregofiferboy: so the QWidget UX will still be around, but it's Maemo5 specific.20:11
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MohammadAGand I have no idea where to start20:12
berndhsmaybe the meego mailing lists have all been converted to forums ?20:12
alteregoThe beginning :P20:12
lcukfor amusement http://liqbase.net/20110627_017.jpg20:12
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MohammadAGalterego, well, yeah, but looking at the scale of the app20:13
alteregolcuk: awwww :P20:13
alteregoWhat App?20:13
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lcukhe is fast asleep :)20:13
MohammadAGI have to implement a component for the news friend, a model for the friends list, a widget for notes and editing them, a dialog for notifications, favorites (or as I call them, people you stalk) etc20:13
MohammadAGalterego, sociality20:14
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alteregoDoesn't sounds like much work20:14
alteregoSeriously, if you just start doing it20:14
alteregoYou'll realise how little time it'll take you to actually do it :D20:14
MohammadAGWell, I finished all that in one day for sociality20:15
fiferboyalterego: Yeah, it is basically a list view with a custom delegate and a bunch of input dialogs20:15
MohammadAGin QWidget20:15
fiferboyI need to figure out QML layouts and transitions, though20:15
MohammadAGanchors are nice20:15
MohammadAGI hate lists in QML20:15
fiferboyalterego: Have you done any Qt Component stuff yet?20:15
alteregofiferboy: loads20:16
MohammadAGI prefer that objects stay in memory, instead of constructing them on scrolling20:16
alteregofiferboy: I wrote the QML UX for the meego reference dialer.20:16
fiferboyMohammadAG: I am hoping I can keep my C++ list class and somehow hook it into a QML list20:16
MohammadAGnot sure if that changed20:16
MohammadAGfiferboy, if it's a list model you can20:16
fiferboyalterego: Right, but is that just "plain" QML? Or does it use components?20:16
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fiferboyMohammadAG: Yes, I thought I read that somewhere :)20:17
MohammadAGfiferboy, i read it somewhere too :P20:17
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alteregofiferboy: oh, it's just plain QML, I've done a little with components and I'll be porting the dialer QML to meego ux components soon enough20:17
alteregoWow, I've just learned about 'extended' states.20:18
alteregoI didn't know you could do that :D20:18
MohammadAGalterego, I'll start on Sociality QML today, I'll be annoying you frequently :p20:18
fiferboyFrom what I have read (and I may be mistaken) it seems that components of some variety will be supported nearly everywhere20:18
alteregoMohammadAG: by all means ;)20:18
fiferboyalterego: I'll try to annoy you frequently too :)20:18
alterego:)20:19
lcukqml on windowsphone?20:19
alteregoI don't mind, if I'm not around just leave me a PM or something (I use irssi in a remote screen session)20:19
alteregoI always get my messages :)20:19
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vgradedm8tbr, seen the bug reply to MeeGo R&D20:19
alteregolcuk: I think that's the "next billion" :P20:19
MohammadAGI know the drill alterego, remember September? :P20:19
alteregoI remember rought 20 septembers :P20:20
alteregoWhich one in particular :)20:20
MohammadAGlast one duh :p20:20
alteregoHeh,20:20
MohammadAGI couldn't read docs back then, or .h files for that matter20:21
alterego:)20:21
dm8tbrvgrade: not yet, let me reload20:22
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vgradedm8tbr, does make for good reading20:23
vgradenot20:23
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dm8tbrvgrade: actually, yes I'm pretty sure they have20:24
dm8tbrvgrade: as main force behind meego (when it started) they probably have the right to call an abacus meego20:25
dm8tbrMeeGo 1.2 Abacus20:25
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Aardvgrade: which bug?20:28
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vgradebug 1351620:29
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13516 nor, Undecided, ---, brian.warner, RESO FIXED, Proposal: Allow MeeGo trademark usage in form of "<X>, a MeeGo R&D project"20:29
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dm8tbrvgrade: what's your opinion on the 'for MeeGo' part?20:34
dm8tbrvgrade: for me that sounds awkward, how would this apply in practice? ideas?20:34
vgradeOK good, we can now use the word meego instead of mg20:35
dm8tbrJoggler for MeeGo?20:35
dm8tbrArchos gen8 for MeeGo? that's counter intuitive for me20:35
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vgradeJoggler port for MeeGo20:36
dm8tbrah20:36
dm8tbrthat makes more sense20:36
vgradeport or adaptation20:36
dm8tbrstill a bit weird, but better20:36
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vgradeforMeeGo.openaos.org20:37
dm8tbrthat again sounds kinda neat20:37
vgradevgrade buys forMeeGo.com20:38
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dnearyvgrade just violated LF trademark guidelines ;)20:38
dm8tbrdneary: see bug 1351620:39
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13516 nor, Undecided, ---, brian.warner, RESO FIXED, Proposal: Allow MeeGo trademark usage in form of "<X>, a MeeGo R&D project"20:39
dnearydm8tbr, "Instead, we suggest using "<project name> for MeeGo."20:40
dnearyOK - I get it20:40
dnearyprojetc20:40
dnearyproject.formeego.com20:40
dm8tbr*nod*20:40
RST38hI suggest using the word Unix in place of Meego,20:40
dnearydm8tbr, Unfortunately, that might work in text descriptions of the site, but the LF guidelines are very clear on using [Mm]ee[Gg]o in a domain name20:41
RST38h"Unix"is not formally a trademark ("UNIX" is) and it will free you from the necessity of proving Meego compatibility20:41
dnearydm8tbr, See http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/linux-foundation-trademark-usage-guidelines20:41
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dneary"A trademark should not be used as your domain name or as part of your domain name."20:42
dnearydm8tbr, See also bug 1469920:42
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14699 nor, Undecided, ---, brian.warner, ASSI, MeeGo Central need a trademark license (if they don't have one already)20:42
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dm8tbrdneary: well, that would just put things back at square zero20:42
dnearydm8tbr, If you say so20:43
dm8tbrdneary: we can call it for meego but we are not allowed to have a domain that says so (as a example)20:43
vgradedm8tbr, but we can still use the MeeGo word in image names and blog posts, tweets etc20:43
dm8tbrvgrade: it's a step, yes and I'm happy it's finally moving20:43
dnearydm8tbr, I think that the rules are too strict, and can be less strict, but we're not talking to the people who make the rules20:43
dnearySo we have no chance to convince them20:44
dm8tbrdneary: I was under the impression that bdub does?20:44
dnearyNo20:44
dnearybdub talks to the people who make the rules20:44
dnearyBut bdub doesn't make the rules20:44
dm8tbrthat's what I meant20:44
dnearyAnd he didn't manage to convince them20:44
dm8tbrdneary: you seem to know more about this process than I do...20:45
dm8tbrdneary: mind shedding some light on it?20:45
dnearydm8tbr, In general, there's a lawyer involved somewhere20:45
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dm8tbryou can clearly tell by the careful wording, yes20:45
dnearydm8tbr, As I understand it, the LF lawyers have drafted the LF trademark guidelines20:45
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vgradedm8tbr, also from the lf site 'A trademark should not be used as part of your product name.'. So the JoggerForMeeGo.img is still not going to work20:45
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dnearydm8tbr, And while I have been arguing that MeeGo needs to be special-cased and have a separate trademark policy (as a site you want to encourage community websites & apps around) the LF people responsible for the trademark policy, when Brian has proposed changes, have said it ain't gonna happen20:46
dnearyThat's the 30s summary20:47
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smokudm8tbr, riding your favourite ponny again? :)20:47
DawnFosterwe're working hard on this20:48
DawnFosterbtw20:48
dm8tbrsmoku: absofunking lutely! :D20:48
dm8tbrDawnFoster: I appreciate that20:48
DawnFosteranything involving legal takes time and negotiation20:48
DawnFosterok, now back to work for me - too many things to do today :)20:48
dm8tbrDawnFoster: would having a umbrella domain be possible?20:49
dnearyDawnFoster, I believe you - but so far there hasn't really been much transparency in how this stuff works20:49
dnearydm8tbr, www.umbrella.com is taken20:49
DawnFosterwe're trying to figure out how it works & who makes those decisions20:49
* dm8tbr fwapfs dneary :p20:49
DawnFosterI think if you look at the bugs you'll see that it's a matter of trying to figure it out20:49
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DawnFosternot lack of transparency20:49
DawnFosterwhat we don't know, we can't share20:49
DawnFosterall we can do is work to fix it20:50
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DawnFosterwhich is what we're doing20:50
DawnFosterbut seriously don't have time to dive into this discussion today20:50
dm8tbrDawnFoster: dead air between 2011-02-15 and now is quite intransparent to me20:50
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dnearyDawnFoster, Well, if I can help, let me know20:50
dnearyDawnFoster, Have been through Conversations with Lawyers before (as have you, I know)20:51
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dnearydm8tbr, Hmmm.... 2011-02-15. Why does that date bring back memories?20:51
dm8tbrduuuuh, coincidence :)20:51
dnearydm8tbr, Oh yeah, it was 4 days after Nokia clarified their MeeGo strategy20:51
* dm8tbr was ranting happily before that already ;)20:52
dnearydm8tbr, I think from then until the MeeGo conference ppl in LF had a lot to do behind the scenes20:52
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dm8tbrindeed20:53
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Venemohey MeeGoists20:58
berndhsVenemo: will there be a schism between the purist MeeGoitsts and the Harmattenites ?20:59
pebcak jo21:00
aukeschisms, fatah and jihad issues -> please discuss in #meego-bar instead :)21:00
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Venemoberndhs, I haven't decided yet.21:01
Venemoberndhs, depends on whether they gimme a new toy or not :P21:01
gabrbedd<-- cracks his eggs on the Beg End21:01
gabrbedds/Beg/Big/21:01
infobotgabrbedd meant: <-- cracks his eggs on the Big End21:01
* dm8tbr would just install MeeGo on a N950 :)21:02
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Venemodm8tbr, I don't understand why they didn't use the mainline MeeGo instead of their own stuff btw21:03
* smoku loves RPM automatic dependency insertion21:03
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smokuit just saved me few WTFs on runtime debugging for sure...21:03
dm8tbrVenemo: timing issue I guess, probably the stuff was well on its way when they made the pact with the dev^h^h^h lf and intel21:03
gabrbeddVenemo: Actually, I don't understand why they chose to reinvent everything last year instead of doing a migration from Harmattan.  (Probably to appease Intel's interests)21:04
smokugabrbedd, because MeeGo Core is/was unstable, and Maemo core is proven to work?21:05
Venemogabrbedd, maybe, who knows21:05
gabrbeddsmoku: That's exactly what I'm saying.21:05
smokulet's use the proven os, put compatibility layer on top, put meego sticker and ship :)21:06
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dm8tbrthat's pretty much what it seems to be, yes21:07
Venemosmoku, gabrbedd was talking the other way around, eg. why didn't they make MeeGo core out of Harmattan. is that right gabrbedd?21:07
* dm8tbr will keep smoku's statement as a quote around ;)21:07
gabrbeddLast year when MeeGo started... the strategy for Handset seemed to be to dump Maemo and re-invent everything with the MTF.21:07
gabrbeddVenemo: right.21:07
smokuoh.21:07
smokuthat's easy. Maemo core is inferior to the designed MeeGo core21:08
gabrbeddI think it would have made more sense to make Maemo a MeeGo base and evolve from there.21:08
smokusee my comment on RPM for example21:08
AardVenemo: the handset _after_ n9 would have been based on meego core, meego core was too unstable last year21:08
TSCHAKeeeyou guys need to understand corporate inertia21:08
TSCHAKeeeit takes TIME for descisions to be made21:08
VenemoAard, ah, I understand21:08
TSCHAKeeeand for them to trickle down21:08
Venemosmoku, what is your comment on RPM?21:08
TSCHAKeeeHarmattan was already in the advanced stages of development when MeeGo was announced.21:09
Venemoyeah21:09
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AardVenemo: if you look at meego 1.1/1.2 development you'll see that we've been working on putting all the stuff needed to rebase harmattan in place21:09
Venemothen why did those "advanced" stages require one more year?21:09
thiagoVenemo: it did21:09
JaffaVenemo: That's a different question21:10
Venemoall right, don't take this the wrong way21:10
gabrbeddsmoku: I like RPM, too... but I don't think switching from DEB to RPM doesn't require re-writing all your libs.21:10
VenemoI adore what you accomplised with Harmattan, especially the UX21:10
thiagogabrbedd: just your entire build and integration system21:10
smokugabrbedd, people working on MeeGo had a chance to leave Moblin and Maemo legacy behind and build a new system, not repeating their errors. and IMO they did it well.21:10
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smokugabrbedd, and yes. they did new errors like introducing MTF, but most of these were already retracted :D21:12
gabrbeddthiago: Yes.  Which is a mite better than that PLUS all your code. :-)21:12
Venemothiago, or just reuse the build and integration system from an already existing RPM-based distro, such as Fedora21:12
thiagoVenemo: or OBS21:12
thiagoVenemo: it still requires doing21:12
Venemothiago, as a matter of fact, the exact same thing happened. MeeGo adapted OBS from OpenSuse,21:12
Aardsmoku: exactly, and for harmattan userland this unfortunately means that a rebase is a bit more complicated -- for example, meego uses ofono, while harmattan still uses the old nokia cellular stack. it didn't make sense to rush that transition with the harmattan base solid -- as long as the main application apis are compatible21:12
Venemoyeah21:12
thiagoVenemo: and since Harmattan was about to be released, this change wasn't made21:12
Venemo:)21:13
VenemoAard, thiago, anyway, you have done well. esp. your UX team should be very proud21:13
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AardVenemo: I didn't do much with harmattan, I'm almost fulltime working on MeeGo ;)21:14
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VenemoAard, okay, I wasn't aware :)21:14
TSCHAKeeeAard: how many are in the bull pen with you?21:14
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AardTSCHAKeee: there never have been many contributing directly to meego. for the few people doing work we managed quite a lot, though ;)21:15
Venemoalso, give my congrats to the Harmattan marketing team as well. after reading their blah-blah on swipe.nokia.com, I really got to like the N9 and N950 :)21:15
* Stskeeps|holiday yawns21:15
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VenemoStskeeps|holiday :)21:15
Venemohaving a nice holiday? :)21:15
Stskeeps|holidaydm8tbr: 'X hw adaption for meego'?21:16
Stskeeps|holidayVenemo: yes, beer and sun21:16
smokubyt the addiction called... ;-)21:16
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dm8tbrStskeeps|holiday: a bit awkward but getting closer, yes21:17
Stskeeps|holidaydm8tbr: i could live with that personally21:17
dm8tbrStskeeps|holiday: yes, I am reasonably happy with it as stated. didn't expect it to fly after that long silence.21:17
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dm8tbrStskeeps|holiday: last bit will be to get an ok for something like forMeeGo.tld21:18
dm8tbrthat would be icing on the cake21:18
Stskeeps|holidaydm8tbr: i am idly wondering how apps are supposed to be named..21:18
Stskeeps|holidayX for meego?21:18
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Stskeeps|holidaydm8tbr: like, compliant aps21:19
dm8tbrStskeeps|holiday: that's out of my scope, I'm looking at hw adaptation ;)21:19
dm8tbrStskeeps|holiday: yes, realized that after 10s ;)21:19
VenemoAard, so, are you on the hw adaptation team, or another one at Nokia? (Or are you doing something you're not allowed to talk about?)21:19
smokuwith KDE/GNOME naming apps is easy. just slap K/G at the beginning and you're done.  ev. replace leading C with K21:20
AardVenemo: I'm in the application team21:20
dm8tbrsmoku: but there they don't play with my pony21:20
VenemoAard, as in, you're responsible for the reference apps?21:20
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Aardno, intel does reference apps. I am (was, got a bit less the last months) responsible for some of the middleware reference apps (and harmattan apps) use21:21
smokuStskeeps, how much 'holiday' are you?21:21
smokuosc build just barked on me ;-)21:21
vgradeStskeeps|holiday, we sill can't use jogglerformeego.img21:22
smokuvgrade, shouldn't it be meegoforjoggler?21:22
Stskeeps|holidaysmoku: i'd send you a picture of me in a grass field, sun, beer but gprs..21:22
dm8tbrvgrade: why?21:23
smokuStskeeps|holiday, ok. have fun then :D21:23
Stskeeps|holidaydm8tbr: anyway, a mental twister: is meego on top of mesa gallium llvmpipe compliant?21:23
vgradeaccording to the lf tm stuff meego can't be used in a product name21:23
Ulf_Stskeeps!21:23
thiagoStskeeps|holiday: why not? if it provides OpenGL ES 2 API21:23
VenemoAard, nice :)21:23
Stskeeps|holidaylo Ulf_21:23
Ulf_Stskeeps|holiday, have a beer for me ;)21:24
dm8tbrStskeeps|holiday: as we know it's only compliant if it runs on intel chips or nokia hardware... :p21:24
Stskeeps|holidayUlf_: way ahead of you ;)21:24
Ulf_argh21:24
* Ulf_ is jealous :-))21:24
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Stskeeps|holidaythiago: could think performance maybe, but then again we dont dictate that21:25
thiagollvmpipe has a good performance21:26
Stskeeps|holiday:nod:21:26
VenemoI thought llvmpipe was for multi-core desktop processors21:26
Venemoand it performs marginally even there21:27
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Stskeeps|holidayfor quake maybe, but for qml like stuff it might be just fine21:28
Venemohmm21:28
Venemothat makes sense21:28
Stskeeps|holidayi mean, see vgrades tegra2 vids21:28
thiagoit's faster on multicore, but it works on single-core too21:28
Venemobut I wounder how long the battery would last when you tax the CPU with llvmpipes21:28
Stskeeps|holidayVenemo: display on is slightly worse sinner in most cases21:29
thiagoabout as long as you'd have if you taxed it with the Qt raster painting engine21:29
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Stskeeps|holidaybut yeah, gles helps21:29
thiagoif you can't access the GL hardware, the CPU will be used21:29
Venemomhm21:30
Venemoand how would that affect multi-tasking performance?21:30
smokudm8tbr, why don't we just invent a word?   if enough ports were calling themselves i.e. "FooBar for Something" it would finally stick, and crowd will know that if they want unblessed MeeGo adaptation, they need to google for FooBar ;-)21:31
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Aard'warez for MeeGo'? :p21:31
dm8tbrsmoku: that's what I was trying to avoid so far. as that would probably make it much harder to get any sort of support from MeeGo21:32
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dm8tbrsmoku: oh, you have a problem with Foobar? well foobar is not compliant, go to them, play with the kids in their sandbox! (while the bug could be actually grave and aplicable to meego)21:32
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smokusupport from MeeGo?   you're are such an optimist :D21:33
dm8tbrsmoku: you may call me don quixcote21:33
* timoph makes a note to remember dm8tbr's new name21:34
timoph:)21:34
dm8tbrDonQuixote de la MeeGo :D21:34
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Stskeeps|holidayHW Skunkworks for MeeGo?21:35
* dm8tbr should get business cards printed with that...21:35
smokudm8tbr, isn't the exact approach you are describing taken for Harmattan?  see the "where should I report Harmattan bugs?" thread on meego-dev21:35
dm8tbrsmoku: see mee sending people to #meego and #meego-arm if they have #harmattan questions...21:36
smokudm8tbr, you report harmattan bugs to nokia, and if they are also meego bugs nokia will report them upstream21:36
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smokudm8tbr, you report foobar bugs to someone, and if they are meego bugs someone reports them upstream21:37
dm8tbrsmoku: yes, that's also IIRC sort of the spirit/wording on my bug13516 page21:37
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13516 nor, Undecided, ---, brian.warner, RESO FIXED, Proposal: Allow MeeGo trademark usage in form of "<X>, a MeeGo R&D project"21:37
smokuwhere upstream == MeeGo21:37
dm8tbrsorry I meant: http://bug10738.openaos.org/21:37
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MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed21:37
dm8tbr"You will not file bugs in the official bugzilla against those images! Please turn to the creator of the image or the community working on the specific hardware adaptation to discuss issues you encounter. "21:37
smokuI know that for most of the issues (not related to specific hardware adapted for)  the intermediary is unneded, as we usually have basically unmodified MeeGo released binaries, but this is obviously the stance MeeGo devs are taking21:38
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dm8tbrsmoku: sure the if-you-are-really-really-sure way will be 'don't mention how you find it' or if you have time quickly pipe it through a qemu install...21:39
Stskeeps|holidaysmoku: even for n900 it first gets passed to us to triage before we establish its a global issue21:39
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smokuI already had hard time reporting problems if I couldn't give an official build number21:40
smoku"how do you expect us to reproduce it if you are using custom built image???!"21:40
* dm8tbr facepalms hard21:40
smokuStskeeps|holiday, don't get me wrong.  I understand the reasoning for this workflow.21:41
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smokuit's just hard to get it for people working for open source projects only so far21:41
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smoku"We are not the Open Source project, you are thinking off..."21:42
smokuonce you get past it, things tend to get obvious :)21:42
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smokuother thing people don't usually get at the first glance and get frustrated at is that MeeGo is not a boxed product21:44
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smokuthe primary audience of the MeeGo Project understand this well21:44
dm8tbrit's more like ikea, and mic2 is the replacement for the hex-wrench ;)21:44
smokubut the average bypassed (especially free software geek) has got to get many WTFs21:45
smokus/passed/passer/21:45
infobotsmoku meant: but the average bypasser (especially free software geek) has got to get many WTFs21:45
smokuDawnFoster, ^^^ maybe you should think of a few explanations for average joe on meego.com?21:46
smokuas the journalists usually get MeeGo wrong also21:46
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CosmoHillpolice intercepters on channel five for anyone interested22:00
smokuosc build fails to setup a build environment with:22:01
smokurunning bzip2-x86-arm postinstall script22:01
smokuchroot: failed to run command `sh': Exec format error22:01
smokuany ideas?22:01
thiagowrong target22:01
thiagoyou can't run a binary for another arch22:01
smokuthat's what I see22:03
smokuIt copied qemu there wirhout errors, though.. :/22:03
smokucopying qemu22:03
smoku /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static22:03
smokuregistering binfmt handlers22:03
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delacWhy doesn't MapMouseArea (QML) have onPositionChanged signal on Meego, while it does have it on the Qt Simulator? Both are using Qt Mobility 1.2.22:06
smoku"osc chroot armv8el" fails aswell :/22:06
befordqemu-static-arm is static right? :P22:07
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smoku> LANG=POSIX ldd /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static22:11
smokunot a dynamic executable22:11
smokuosc --debug nor --verbose does not help much :/22:11
CosmoHilltry "file /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static22:11
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smokuELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.6.4, not stripped22:13
smokuand it works fine when launched22:13
Stskeeps|holidaysmoku: /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc or smth22:14
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smokuI think there may be a problem with registering binfmt handler22:14
smokubut it does not error on this22:14
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smokuls /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc/ is empty even after "registering binfmt handlers"22:15
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smokuok.  binfmt_misc is not mounted  <facepalm>22:17
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smokustrange.  when I mounted binfmt_misc i don't see "registering binfmt handlers" anymore and it still doesn't work :/22:28
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EliteTeckeHi I have already installed meego to my n900's emmc before.22:45
EliteTeckeBut what I was wondering if I could dual boot it with maemo on separate partitions on the emmc.?22:45
EliteTeckeI already have Maemo, Power 64 and Android dual booting from the emmc and it works just fine.22:45
EliteTeckeIs this possible to do with meego?22:45
EliteTeckeThanks much appreciated and I use backup menu for my current setup.:)22:45
EliteTeckeI did post this in channel meego-handset but got no response.22:45
EliteTeckeThanks.:)22:46
CosmoHillIIRC maemo is on the device itself, not the memory card22:47
EliteTeckeYes.22:47
EliteTeckeOf course.22:47
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EliteTeckeI am just wondering if the process is the same.22:47
EliteTeckeFor installing android to the n900.22:48
EliteTeckeemmc22:48
* CosmoHill wouldn't know22:48
EliteTeckeThe internal storage is the emmc22:48
EliteTecke.22:48
EliteTecke:)22:48
CosmoHillI do know that bit22:48
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EliteTeckeWell maemo is the default os.22:49
EliteTeckeSo of course it is on the device itself.:)22:49
EliteTeckeWhy would it be on the sd card.22:49
EliteTecke><22:49
EliteTeckeI'll see what I can do.22:49
EliteTeckeI was just checking here first.22:50
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EliteTeckeAlso why can't you load files onto meego.22:50
EliteTeckeVia usb.22:50
EliteTeckeIt just fails at the desktop gui.22:50
EliteTeckeIt doesn't connect.22:50
EliteTeckeSo I had to use the meego recovery in ram.22:51
EliteTeckeTo cp the files across.22:51
EliteTeckeAnd it still wouldn't see them.22:51
EliteTeckeIn the media file manager or player.22:51
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EliteTeckeI don't get why this is the case.22:51
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EliteTeckeI can only assume the configuration from scanning directories is still.22:52
EliteTeckeBased of the sdcard.22:52
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EliteTeckeAnd yet there is a home/meego directory.22:52
EliteTeckeSo I am puzzled by this.22:52
EliteTeckeIt picks up the default music file in the music folder.]22:52
EliteTeckeThat comes with meego ce22:52
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EliteTeckeMy music were in folders but I can't see that being much of an issue.22:53
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dm8tbrEliteTecke: let me guess your music are mp3 files?22:55
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alteregoHe22:55
alteregoh22:55
alteregoheh22:55
blauzahlis there a way i can find out easily what Qt flags meego Qt is compiled with?22:55
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hiemanshudm8tbr: mp3 is not supported?22:57
EliteTeckeogg and mp3.22:57
EliteTeckeNon worked or were even found.22:57
dm8tbrhiemanshu: pretty sure it isn't22:58
EliteTeckeThen what does it support then?22:58
dm8tbrhiemanshu: something about patents, licensing and things22:58
hiemanshuright22:58
dm8tbrogg/vorbis ogg/theora22:58
EliteTeckeMy pictures I take from the camera don't show either.22:58
hiemanshuso all my iTunes music wont work :/22:58
EliteTeckeAnd they are there.22:58
dm8tbrEliteTecke: you put them in ~/Music22:58
EliteTeckeI checked.22:58
EliteTeckeYes of course.22:58
EliteTeckeI do know how to use a Linux based os and its directories properly.22:59
dm8tbrit works fine for videos22:59
dm8tbrwell the players are jailed in those directories so to say, not everyone expects that22:59
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dm8tbrhaven't checked if subdirectories work23:00
EliteTeckeWell I am going to have a crack at installing it to a separate partition.23:00
EliteTeckeOn the emmc.23:00
dm8tbrthat could work, you'll need to adjust the kernel cmdline23:00
EliteTeckeI know.23:00
EliteTeckeI finally got an answer in meego-handset channel.23:01
dm8tbrif you succeed, add a note to the emmc install page. I'm sure someone will appreciate it23:01
EliteTeckeYeah will do.23:01
dm8tbrfor n900 things #meego-arm is your best bet btw23:01
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EliteTeckeAh okay.23:01
EliteTeckeThanks.:)23:01
dm8tbrnp23:01
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EliteTeckeI have installed it to the emmc just not on a separate partition before.23:02
EliteTeckeLike I have done with Android/Nitdroid port in the past.:)23:02
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EliteTeckeI haven't managed to get xbmc working on top of meego yet.23:04
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dm8tbrI hope that uses top2fs or whatever his nick was optimizations23:05
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ShadowJKWhat were/are top2fs optimizations?23:07
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dm8tbrhe spent last summer of code tweaking xbmc for the beagleboard23:09
dm8tbrI hear most of his work recently went upstream23:09
EliteTeckeWhat would best for meego.23:10
EliteTeckeext3 or ext4?23:10
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EliteTeckeI'll go for ext3.23:10
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waahi23:10
ShadowJKmeegoce doesn't play video properly with the built in video player and sample media, so..23:10
EliteTeckeHi23:10
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dm8tbrShadowJK: correct :(23:10
dm8tbrsomeone said there was a (partial?) fix though23:11
EliteTeckeI can see that could be possible.23:11
waaMeeGo Tablet Developer Preview v 1.2 not have applications close buttons, is there a way to enable it by software23:11
ShadowJKFrom the corruption it looks like it tries to play stuff through sgx, which is another wtf.23:11
EliteTeckeAh you need to compile sgx then yourself.23:12
EliteTeckeThat's how one person got xbmc to run.23:12
dm8tbrwaa: it's part of the design philosophy. a physical home button is required23:12
dm8tbrEliteTecke: you can't. sgx is closed source23:12
EliteTeckeSomeone claimed they did.23:12
EliteTeckeDunno where they got the source then.23:12
* dm8tbr doubts that23:12
dm8tbrthere are only a small handfull of people who have it, comes with a pile of NDA23:13
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ShadowJKAnd you wouldn't want to play video through sgx?23:14
ShadowJKit'd be sloow23:15
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gabrbeddwaa: No there is not really a way to enable them.  However...23:24
gabrbeddwaa: If you hit the "Meta" button (aka windows key, aka top left corner thingie on exopc)... you'll get a task switcher.23:24
gabrbeddwaa: that lats you switch between apps.23:25
gabrbeddwaa: If you press and hold on an icon, you'll get a context menu where you can close out the app.23:25
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lcukShadowJK, bug 1308423:28
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink23:28
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CosmoHillARM will be on bbc2 and bbc HD23:33
CosmoHilllcuk: congrats, how is mrs lcuk and the little one?23:33
lcukCosmoHill, 4 hours and 2 paracetamol.23:33
lcukshe is still in shock23:33
waagabrbedd, dm8tbr thanks23:34
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ShadowJKworking xv is going to be needed for more than 240p I think :/23:40
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lcukShadowJK, fix the bug then please23:43
lcuk(if you know how or who can do it)!23:43
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julienfhello hello :)23:46
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vgradejulienf, evenign23:50
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thebootroohell o!23:54
thebootrooi've pushed another update to my mobile UX repos !23:54
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thebootrooa lockscreen23:55
thebootroohttp://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/516037MeeGoNewKickAssUX003.png23:55
thebootroowith vertical slider23:55
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thebootrooand more : all of that is entirely stylable with plain CSS23:55
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