| Stskeeps | stephg: yeah, you're right. something's wrong on our side. can't do much to fix it but i'll have our release guy fix it monday | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| stephg | well it's no big deal for that release obviously as time goes on | 00:02 |
| stephg | but I guess the cause is important to understand | 00:02 |
| stephg | so it doesn't happen again | 00:02 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 00:02 |
| stephg | 'cos 20100831 doesn't build either (as you said, for different reasons) | 00:02 |
| Stskeeps | there's basically no binaries since 24.1 | 00:02 |
| stephg | that's not so good ;) | 00:02 |
| stephg | is it worth me raising the broken build for 1.0.90.0.20100831.1 as well? | 00:07 |
| stephg | or are they all related | 00:07 |
| Stskeeps | think this is a catch-all | 00:08 |
| Stskeeps | just added it to the bug report and assigned to Sage | 00:09 |
| stephg | coolio, I shall say nothing then | 00:09 |
| stephg | thanks for the help | 00:09 |
| Stskeeps | thanks for the report | 00:09 |
| Stskeeps | next question is how the hell the .ks builds worked in the first place. | 00:10 |
| stephg | I was thinking about that:- they build from exactly this repo? | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | well, we are supposed to, but it seems like there was a holiday related screwup | 00:10 |
| stephg | 20100817 builds and the packages are still there | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 00:11 |
| stephg | 20100824 built and then sometime after the packages go awol | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | guess when vacation started.. :) | 00:11 |
| stephg | but the *real* oddness is that 20100831 built and again the packages have now gone awol | 00:11 |
| stephg | hehe | 00:11 |
| stephg | wonder if something was added/changed to the build process that deletes something it shouldn't do | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | another thing i'm slightly worried about | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:12 |
| stephg | heh | 00:12 |
| stephg | unless it was manual action and only happened recently | 00:12 |
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| stephg | anyway is bed time; greatly appreciate the help. Laters | 00:17 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | evening. ;) | 01:41 |
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| CosmoHill | wow, guy who made KDE used COCOMO | 01:44 |
| CosmoHill | http://stats.black-flag.co.uk/index.php?disp=dynamic :D | 01:46 |
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| esmirlin | hello! anyone knows how to became a translator for meego? | 01:48 |
| CosmoHill | speak to Dawn Foster | 01:49 |
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| * TSCHAKeee2 grabs the latest weekly | 01:51 | |
| CosmoHill | 20 days until my server hits 300 days uptime | 01:52 |
| CosmoHill | 16 days until I start uni | 01:52 |
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| CosmoHill | crap that's not long at all | 01:53 |
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| esmirlin | join(ubuntu-es | 01:59 |
| CosmoHill | fail | 01:59 |
| esmirlin | sorry | 01:59 |
| esmirlin | :P | 01:59 |
| CosmoHill | anyone in here heard of Wayland? | 01:59 |
| lcuk | x11 server asskicking! | 02:02 |
| CosmoHill | :) | 02:03 |
| lcuk | we were discussing it amongst other optimisations in #maemo earlier | 02:03 |
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| lcuk | or rather, it was brought up in the discussion | 02:03 |
| npm | so i just installed meego on my son's netbook (replacing moblin)... where did openoffice go?? and openjdk?? | 02:05 |
| CosmoHill | hey npm | 02:05 |
| npm | (already installed sun's jdk, do i need to DL OOo from openoffice.org?) | 02:05 |
| npm | hi CosmoHill | 02:05 |
| CosmoHill | someone installed open office using the Fedora RPM on meego | 02:06 |
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| lcuk | npm, dawnfoster mentioned she got OOs direct from the fedora repos, but I would think if there was already a moblin build somewhere that would be better suited already | 02:06 |
| lcuk | do the moblin repos still exist? | 02:06 |
| CosmoHill | should moblin users upgrade to meego? | 02:07 |
| npm | but that could get confusing , adding fedora updates to yum.repos (or is this install direct from http://koji.fedoraproject.org/ from web browser) | 02:08 |
| lcuk | thats not whats asked | 02:08 |
| lcuk | CosmoHill, for some situations in maemo, its possible to try installing apps and libraries which were built for the previous version of the OS | 02:08 |
| npm | i already had a little fun adding planetccrma's repo ( http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ ) but it didn't work quite as expected | 02:08 |
| lcuk | i am just thinking out loud tho :P | 02:09 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | i install openoffice using the fedora rpms. | 02:10 |
| npm | ok, i'll try that. you just "rpm -ivh" directly right? | 02:11 |
| npm | or do you mean adding fedora to your yum repos | 02:11 |
| npm | and i assume you pull from fedora13 repo? | 02:11 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | rpm -ivh the desktop support packages, after running the openoffice installer | 02:11 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | there is a rpm's folder | 02:11 |
| * CosmoHill is watching Take the Lead :) | 02:12 | |
| TSCHAKeee2 | in the installer package, that has a fedora 13 rpm to provide the desktop files | 02:12 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | works just fine | 02:12 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | would be nice if they put oo in the garage though | 02:12 |
| TSCHAKeee2 | wth | 02:12 |
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| TSCHAKeee2 | :P | 02:12 |
| npm | oh i see. so just grab a compat rpm directly from http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/stable/3.2.1/ not from redhat/fedora repos or koji | 02:14 |
| npm | alternately, what about koffice? seems like that would get some support from the maemo end of things... | 02:15 |
| npm | seems like a major "hole" in the distro ... wonder if oracle did something funky or it's just the usual corporate warfare.... | 02:16 |
| ScottishDuck | Oracle + Open Source = segfault | 02:18 |
| npm | ok downloading... thanks for the advice... | 02:22 |
| npm | othet than no OOo meego looks very nice and it's quite snappy on his netbook | 02:23 |
| CosmoHill | doesn't koffice require kde? | 02:27 |
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| CosmoHill | my head phones are making a hiss but it seems to be made by the amp | 02:50 |
| CosmoHill | or maybe the source | 02:50 |
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| CosmoHill | 5675 apache 30 10 6236 2164 852 R 99.9 0.3 13:36.13 perl | 03:21 |
| CosmoHill | any ideas? | 03:22 |
| ShadowJK | web server run amok? | 03:22 |
| CosmoHill | amok? | 03:22 |
| ShadowJK | crazy | 03:22 |
| CosmoHill | ah | 03:23 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 03:23 |
| CosmoHill | 5671 apache 30 10 0 0 0 Z 0.0 0.0 0:00.01 rm <defunct> | 03:23 |
| CosmoHill | well that's worrying | 03:23 |
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| CosmoHill | killed perl with signal 9 | 03:26 |
| CosmoHill | I wonder if it was to do with the wordpress upgrades I did today | 03:26 |
| ShadowJK | probably. | 03:26 |
| CosmoHill | 01:28:09 up 280 days, 1:58, 2 users, load average: 0.70, 0.85, 0.68 | 03:28 |
| CosmoHill | 100% load almost doubles the power useage | 03:28 |
| CosmoHill | one thing I learnt was when that happens, don't restart apache | 03:35 |
| CosmoHill | last time I did that I couldn't start it again | 03:35 |
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| ShadowJK | load average looks ok- | 03:38 |
| CosmoHill | they'll settle down to bugger all | 03:39 |
| CosmoHill | the fact it's up to 0.68 means it's not been running for to long | 03:39 |
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| CosmoHill | concidering I've compiled and configured all the software on that server it's doing very well | 03:45 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 04:12 |
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| theplic | why doesnt meego provide torrents for its sdk and images? | 07:19 |
| sofar | the chrome image can't be distributed that way | 07:21 |
| sofar | it's being worked on too, perhaps in the future this will be an option | 07:21 |
| theplic | cause i just lost my sdk d/l at 75% :/ | 07:22 |
| sofar | wget can continue a download | 07:22 |
| sofar | wget -c or -C I think | 07:22 |
| theplic | ok | 07:22 |
| sofar | -c | 07:22 |
| sofar | wget -c url | 07:23 |
| theplic | ithink its wget -nc url | 07:23 |
| sofar | no, -nc is something else | 07:24 |
| sofar | -c, --continue resume getting a partially-downloaded file. | 07:24 |
| theplic | it does say no clobber where clobber = file being over-written | 07:24 |
| sofar | -nc does not imply -c | 07:24 |
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| theplic | yea | 07:27 |
| theplic | ok | 07:27 |
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| lolloo | hi | 08:45 |
| lolloo | how acan i isntall meego? | 08:45 |
| lolloo | how can I install MeeGo? | 08:45 |
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| sofar | lolloo: usb stick or cdrom | 08:47 |
| sofar | follow the download links and you'll see instructions | 08:47 |
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| lolloo | awesome | 08:51 |
| lolloo | so its released? | 08:52 |
| lolloo | full? | 08:52 |
| lolloo | but where is the site? | 08:52 |
| SwedeMike | http://meego.com/ | 08:52 |
| lolloo | IMEI wooot? | 08:54 |
| lolloo | do i have to? | 08:54 |
| theplic | -.- | 08:54 |
| lolloo | whats it going to do? | 08:54 |
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| lolloo | guys how do i install meego? | 09:05 |
| lolloo | btw is meego full version or still beta? | 09:06 |
| lolloo | hello? | 09:06 |
| lolloo | is MeeGo full version or still Beta? | 09:08 |
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| lolloo | is MeeGo full version or still Beta? | 09:10 |
| SwedeMike | lolloo: why do you think you will get a better answer just because you repeat yourself every two minutes? | 09:11 |
| lolloo | sorry | 09:11 |
| lolloo | just curious | 09:11 |
| psycho_oreos | s/just/too/ | 09:11 |
| lolloo | i want to install it | 09:11 |
| lolloo | and i like it | 09:12 |
| SwedeMike | then just do that. | 09:12 |
| lolloo | is it full? | 09:12 |
| lolloo | full version? | 09:12 |
| SwedeMike | there is no answer to that. | 09:12 |
| SwedeMike | it's a work in progress. | 09:12 |
| lolloo | alright | 09:12 |
| lolloo | can I use multiboot with it: | 09:13 |
| lolloo | ? | 09:13 |
| theplic | yes you can | 09:13 |
| lolloo | wow awesome | 09:13 |
| lolloo | is there a link for steps with multiboot? | 09:13 |
| lolloo | please? | 09:14 |
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| theplic | you will be prompted for multiboot whn u are installing meego | 09:14 |
| lolloo | OMG | 09:14 |
| lolloo | awesome | 09:14 |
| lolloo | can you provide me with the link for steps please? | 09:15 |
| SwedeMike | it's all there on meego.com | 09:16 |
| lolloo | is it on meego wiki? | 09:16 |
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| Lovetrain | Hi All | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | hi | 09:26 |
| Lovetrain | Hi Stskeeps | 09:27 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | morn jaffa | 09:42 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Haven't forgottwn bug raising, just need to get an hour to reload MeeGo kernel and write down steps to reproduce | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | k | 09:44 |
| Jaffa | Talking of kernels, NITdroid flashes based on bootmenu selection - can that be done for MeeGo. Or, even better, can flasher on Maemo load the kernel for next boot? | 09:44 |
| Jaffa | Or does flasher -l -k only work pre-boot | 09:44 |
| Jaffa | ? | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | ali1234 has made a u-boot implementation for n900 | 09:44 |
| Stskeeps | we'll probably go for that instead, less hacky | 09:45 |
| Jaffa | Ah, cool | 09:45 |
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| Stskeeps | means it would fall back to normal maemo kernel unless it found a kernel on sd | 09:45 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Does that mean the card would need removing to boot into Maemo? | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | right, but we are also looking into a bootmenu | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | u-boot can draw stuff to framebuffer so | 09:47 |
| * Jaffa sees. | 09:48 | |
| Jaffa | Hopefully you won't be spending time reinventing the various bootmenus which already exist, though (rather than working on MeeGo itself ;-)) | 09:48 |
| Stskeeps | i did look at multiboot but it has the main problem of relying on ubifs and NAND tricks | 09:49 |
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| Stskeeps | we boot straight to sd, so | 09:49 |
| Stskeeps | they boot to nand first, then chroot | 09:49 |
| Jaffa | Really? How... odd. | 09:50 |
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| Jaffa | BTW, the mention of call & data - is that going to be in next weekly drop? | 09:50 |
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| ali1234 | i now have the keyboard working too | 09:59 |
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| ali1234 | actually nearly all this stuff was already in u-boot, i just had to configure it and make a few tweaks | 10:00 |
| lolloo | I hope it will support multi-boot with maemo and NITdroid | 10:02 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: we need to have permission since we're in feature freeze. but if you build own images (current closed repo broken) there's a page with urls | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | data isn't working yet | 10:25 |
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| theplic | ok quick question: why is so much screen space used just to advertise "Meego" on the taskbar | 10:26 |
| theplic | i mean i know which os im using | 10:27 |
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| thiago_home | theplic: but we want people looking over your shoulders to know too :-) | 10:32 |
| theplic | thiago_home: :) | 10:32 |
| theplic | but it hinders the ability to add more quick access buttons | 10:32 |
| theplic | not to mention why the option to change the wallpaper if i cant be on the desktop anyway | 10:35 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: multiboot? | 11:07 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: by the installer? | 11:07 |
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| Kubuntiac | Has anyone heard any even vague rumors regarding the Kindle reader app coming to Meego? | 11:56 |
| Kubuntiac | (or not) | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | no, but that would be nce | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | nice | 11:57 |
| * thiago_home would agree | 11:57 | |
| SwedeMike | don't see how that would work, meego isn't trusted computing, so how would the DRM work? | 11:57 |
| Kubuntiac | Is Android any different in this respect? | 11:58 |
| Kubuntiac | btw, I can run ebooks.com's DRM ebook reader just fine under Wine (they even suggest it?!) | 11:59 |
| SwedeMike | yeah, there at least the manufacturers seem to want to implement signed boot loaders etc | 11:59 |
| Kubuntiac | Personally I'd happily skip it, DRM and all, but I'm trying to convince my wife to go Meego with her next device... and she wants the Kindle reader :/ | 12:00 |
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| SwedeMike | I'm a N900 owner so I just joined this channel because it seems maemo is being abandonded... and from the videos and screenshots I've seen so far, Meego seems to have nowhere the polished look of Android/iOS/Maemo, is this been worked on? | 12:02 |
| Kubuntiac | It's funny, I've seen a bunch of videos where it looks really plain and grey, and a couple where it looks almost black, but very slick and shiny | 12:03 |
| thiago_home | SwedeMike: you know that there is no official release of MeeGo for handsets yet, right? | 12:03 |
| Kubuntiac | (on the netbook version) | 12:03 |
| thiago_home | SwedeMike: which means that anything you may have seen is pre-release software? | 12:03 |
| thiago_home | SwedeMike: you also know that no one does sucky UIs intentionally? | 12:04 |
| Kubuntiac | SwedeMike: Have you seen this vid yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqeeQd-YNL0 | 12:05 |
| SwedeMike | thiago_home: errr, have you looked at a classical Ericsson phone? they seem to do it intentionally. | 12:05 |
| SwedeMike | thiago_home: at 2:13 for instance, that doesn't look polished at all to me | 12:06 |
| Kubuntiac | PS That vid ^^^ is almost 3 months old... who knows what's happened since then... | 12:06 |
| SwedeMike | it looks like something Ericsson would do in 2005 long before the iPhone was released... | 12:06 |
| SwedeMike | or Symbian still was last I looked... or windows mobile 6 | 12:07 |
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| thiago_home | that vid was also pre-pre-alpha | 12:07 |
| thiago_home | so, no, it's not polished at all | 12:07 |
| thiago_home | polishing is one of the last things that happens... | 12:08 |
| johd | SwedeMike, I believe this is a matter of taste | 12:08 |
| johd | and themes | 12:08 |
| thiago_home | think about it: when do you polish furniture? When you're done building it, or when the glue isn't dry yet? | 12:08 |
| SwedeMike | thiago_home: like you do software security as an afterthought? I mean, the last you do when you build a house is to put in a door with a lock? I don't buy it. | 12:09 |
| johd | I believe you can rest assured Meego will look at least as shiny as Maemo in the end | 12:09 |
| SwedeMike | you make a polished look when you DESIGN the thing, then you might implement it last, but where is the design? | 12:09 |
| johd | and then you can choose a theme with pink and yellow and all these "colors" | 12:09 |
| johd | :p | 12:09 |
| SwedeMike | I'm not talking colours. | 12:10 |
| SwedeMike | well, we'll see when it's released I guess. | 12:10 |
| thiago_home | SwedeMike: no, not like that | 12:10 |
| thiago_home | SwedeMike: but you have heard of premature optimisation, right? | 12:10 |
| thiago_home | SwedeMike: it's the same thing with polishing. You polish when the app's functionality is done. | 12:11 |
| SwedeMike | thiago_home: I guess that's why things look like they do in a lot of devices. So again, I don't think that's the right way to go. | 12:11 |
| SwedeMike | then you end up with a non-polished look because of the 90/90 factor. | 12:12 |
| thiago_home | we'll have to agree to disagree | 12:12 |
| thiago_home | polishing isn't done until the apps work | 12:12 |
| SwedeMike | 90/10 rule I guess it's called. | 12:12 |
| thiago_home | polishing is part of the 90. It's easy to do. | 12:12 |
| SwedeMike | so then you end up with not polishing because you've run out of time and underestimated the polishing work, and now you have to release because "it works" and you don't really care about look | 12:12 |
| thiago_home | that's a danger, yes | 12:13 |
| thiago_home | or, the alternative, is that you postpone until you're done | 12:13 |
| thiago_home | personally, I prefer working and plain than polished and useless | 12:13 |
| SwedeMike | well, I guess we'll what happens in the end. | 12:13 |
| SwedeMike | we'll see | 12:13 |
| thiago_home | I prefer working and polished, of course | 12:13 |
| SwedeMike | I think Apple (and nokia with Maemo5 on N900) did the correct optimization, screw some of the "necessary" features (like MMS) and look at what people actually use the phone for. | 12:14 |
| Kubuntiac | More recent vid (if you speak German) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILfUHv0mTlc | 12:14 |
| SwedeMike | only thing nokia didn't get right was the USSD, that it took so long to get it. | 12:14 |
| thiago_home | USSD? | 12:15 |
| SwedeMike | *23*5324535345435# | 12:15 |
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| SwedeMike | to refill prepaid phone cards etc | 12:15 |
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| * thiago_home didn't get it | 12:16 | |
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| Stskeeps | SwedeMike: do keep in mind meego.com is a platform, not a product sold by nokia | 12:16 |
| SwedeMike | Stskeeps: yes? What's your point? | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | that said, things do have to look good from both technical and basic looks (lickable UIs sell, so that'd be vendors doing that..) | 12:17 |
| thiago_home | yep | 12:17 |
| thiago_home | SwedeMike: polishing has to be done, we all agree | 12:17 |
| thiago_home | we just disagree on the "when" | 12:17 |
| SwedeMike | and let's hope it doesn't fragment like android seems to be doing. | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | SwedeMike: yeah.. | 12:17 |
| SwedeMike | re-inventing the wheel is inefficient. | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | SwedeMike: the meego handset UX is quite flexible in terms of making differentiation UIs without breaking apps, to my knowledge | 12:18 |
| thiago_home | repeating the mistakes too | 12:18 |
| thiago_home | we're being very careful with forward compatibility and ensuring a unique platform | 12:18 |
| SwedeMike | thiago_home: I always get scared when people say unique: <http://www.marcofolio.net/images/stories/fun/imagedump/demotivational_posters/unique.jpg> | 12:19 |
| thiago_home | lol | 12:19 |
| thiago_home | sorry, that's not what I meant | 12:19 |
| Kubuntiac | "Interesting","Unusual" and "Unique". The three death words... | 12:19 |
| thiago_home | I meant that the platform is unified, no fragmentation | 12:20 |
| Kubuntiac | oh, and "Different" | 12:20 |
| SwedeMike | read about that some car manufacturers was trying to standardize on Meego when it came to in-car entertainment systems, that'd be nice as well... but I think to fully achieve the potential there manufacturers need to standardize on physical interaction with the car as well | 12:24 |
| SwedeMike | would be awesome if there basically was a standard form factor and connectors to connect to the rest of the car so the system could be changed every 3-5 years. | 12:25 |
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| thiago_home | yes, the Genivi alliance chose MeeGo | 12:27 |
| thiago_home | I think car manufacturers expect you to change cars every 3 years... | 12:28 |
| achipa | SwedeMike: well, CANBUS and OBD(2) kind of point towards that | 12:30 |
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| SwedeMike | thiago_home: yeah, that's their dream... it's also their dream that we fork out 3kEUR for a navigation device. | 12:31 |
| SwedeMike | when I can buy one in town for 100-200EUR | 12:31 |
| dm8tbr | SwedeMike: no it's their dream that they can upsell you the software option of navigation for 3k, the hardware being in place anyway ;) | 12:33 |
| SwedeMike | dm8tbr: right. | 12:33 |
| achipa | well, both are going to die when your phone is able to do the same thing, right ? :) | 12:33 |
| thiago_home | you can just use your Nokia phone too :-) | 12:33 |
| achipa | thiago_home: heh :) | 12:33 |
| SwedeMike | well, five year old car navigation is still better than the 1 year old phone. | 12:34 |
| achipa | phone is moving faster, having a shorter life-cycle and all | 12:34 |
| SwedeMike | absolutely. | 12:34 |
| sandst1 | maybe they'll make the phone navigation integrate with the car :) | 12:34 |
| thiago_home | the N95 navigation was atrocious | 12:35 |
| SwedeMike | sandst1: exactly. standard interface so I can control things via bluetooth or something... | 12:35 |
| thiago_home | took 10 minutes to lock on | 12:35 |
| dm8tbr | also the car navigation has significant sensoric advantages | 12:35 |
| thiago_home | on the N97 it was much better, if only laggy | 12:35 |
| thiago_home | on recent phones, it's very good | 12:35 |
| achipa | sandst1: that's the cool thing about meego, actually - imagine you just remote-display the thing :) | 12:35 |
| SwedeMike | yes, my car navigation knows when the car is rolling and compass direction, so even in tunnels it does the right thing | 12:35 |
| dm8tbr | it can tap into the odometer and the speeds reported by individual tires to correlate position | 12:35 |
| achipa | achipa: or better yet, be able to sync stuff - like plan your route on the phone, at home, and then plug in the car and presto, it knows where you want to go | 12:36 |
| achipa | writing to myself again, time for coffee | 12:36 |
| SwedeMike | achipa: android already does that, afaik | 12:36 |
| achipa | SwedeMike: I mean, communicate that *to the car* | 12:36 |
| SwedeMike | achipa: well, if you use your phone for navigation then it's the same thing. | 12:37 |
| sandst1 | no if you've got a KITT as the car | 12:37 |
| thiago_home | GPS speed measurement is more reliable than the odometre | 12:37 |
| dm8tbr | thiago_home: do you have some source to back this up. I'd be interested to read it. | 12:39 |
| achipa | thiago_home: you sure about that ? sure, averaged out, over large distances, yes, but given any moment ? GPS accuracy can vary wildly, it's only the statistical functions that make it OK on a micro scale | 12:39 |
| sandst1 | i wonder what's the current condition of the GPS network currently, haven't heard much of this since last year: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/5352183/Sat-nav-system-could-break-down-within-a-year.html | 12:39 |
| dm8tbr | also most GPS only report 1PPS | 12:40 |
| achipa | sandst1: that's a fundraiser call, government style | 12:40 |
| dm8tbr | hmm maybe the binary modes provide higher resolution, I tend to forget | 12:40 |
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| SwedeMike | thiago_home: GPS works bad in tunnels. | 12:42 |
| achipa | dm8tbr: it's not the question how often the module can tell you the location - it's about receiving the raw data | 12:42 |
| SwedeMike | thiago_home: so it's better to have a device that does GPS+others, than to just have GPS | 12:42 |
| sandst1 | achipa: good point. *need more coffee* | 12:42 |
| timeless_mbp | sandst1: you don't prefer KARR? | 12:42 |
| thiago_home | SwedeMike: true | 12:43 |
| achipa | dm8tbr: you can have 1000PPS but if it's just interpolation, it ain't worth much | 12:43 |
| dm8tbr | indeed | 12:43 |
| dm8tbr | also the tunnel problem remains | 12:43 |
| dm8tbr | there are plenty of tunnels with branches and exits | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | dm8tbr: why should that be a problem? | 12:44 |
| SwedeMike | so odometer+compass+AGPS+GPS is really the way to go. | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | the car should have a speedometer | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | and a compass | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | speed + direction = velocity | 12:44 |
| sandst1 | timeless_mbp: KARR is evil. that'd be like preferring T-1000 ^^ | 12:44 |
| timeless_mbp | Location 0 + Velocity (0-1) = Location 1 | 12:45 |
| dm8tbr | timeless_mbp: if your gps stops sending data then the navigation has no idea if you just passed the exit or if it's still 200m ahead of you | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | dm8tbr: you don't need gps once you have a location if you have working instruments | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | basic physics | 12:45 |
| dm8tbr | timeless_mbp: that's what we're talking about | 12:45 |
| achipa | inertial navigation is fun :) | 12:45 |
| dm8tbr | timeless_mbp: a phone does not have them | 12:45 |
| timeless_mbp | dm8tbr: actually, they do | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | they have accelerometer + compass | 12:46 |
| * thiago_home votes for INS | 12:46 | |
| timeless_mbp | at least the more modern ones do | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | that they fail to usefully integrate those components is well | 12:46 |
| dm8tbr | timeless_mbp: those that I saw were horrible | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | … typical failure to integrate :) | 12:46 |
| achipa | timeless_mbp: with notable exceptions, where reference frames can make things tricky | 12:46 |
| timeless_mbp | apple will get it right in a few years | 12:46 |
| SwedeMike | I'm spectial if that's as accurate as the stuff in the cars. and cheap accelerometer isn't good enough to do inertial navigation with | 12:46 |
| achipa | but I guess that's rare enough not to be considered | 12:46 |
| thiago_home | SwedeMike: it's probably not sensitive enough | 12:47 |
| SwedeMike | sceptical I mean | 12:47 |
| thiago_home | but it's probably enough for navigating through a tunnel | 12:47 |
| timeless_mbp | sandst1: nah, just the first t101 instead of the second 2 :) | 12:48 |
| achipa | SwedeMike: the more inputs you have, the better your chances to figure out what's going on | 12:48 |
| achipa | (if you have enough CPU power to process it in real time, of course :) | 12:48 |
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| achipa | and nobody mentioned the funniest nav-confusor, the ship/traject things. Some recognise it but others simply refuse to believe you're on water :) | 12:55 |
| achipa | s/recognise/recognize/ | 12:56 |
| infobot | achipa meant: and nobody mentioned the funniest nav-confusor, the ship/traject things. Some recognize it but others simply refuse to believe you're on water :) | 12:56 |
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| CosmoHill | morning | 13:02 |
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| sivang | morning CosmoHill | 13:17 |
| CosmoHill | hi | 13:17 |
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| theplic | hi can only qt based apps run on meego? | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | no, it runs gtk too | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | or motif | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:16 |
| theplic | oh | 14:16 |
| theplic | cool | 14:16 |
| theplic | what about python? | 14:19 |
| theplic | can i run python apps? | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | pythons' there but no pyqt or pyside yet | 14:19 |
| theplic | oh | 14:19 |
| theplic | pyqt wud have been cool | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | agreed | 14:20 |
| theplic | and is there a way to default to the desktop and not to the home tab screen? | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | no idea sorry | 14:21 |
| theplic | ok | 14:21 |
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| CosmoHill | is it just me or are 16:10 monitors becoming harder to find? | 14:28 |
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| odin_ | what are 16:10, I know 1920x1200 are pixie dust now, most unhappy, bloody HD | 14:46 |
| CosmoHill | get this 1080p monitor! I don't want one! I want to be able to read two A4 pages side by side without having to scroll a little bit | 14:48 |
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| Dilberto | Petition to pressure Kevin Rose to eat uncured pork bacon live on streaming video and drink COLD BEER with it. Have him prove that simple greed and or incompetence was the reason behind Digg 4.0 and its selling out and not something else, if you get my drift! | 14:50 |
| Dilberto | Sign the petition here: | 14:50 |
| Dilberto | http://www.petitiononline.com/krbacon/petition.html | 14:50 |
| CosmoHill | go away | 14:50 |
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| *** Dilberto was kicked by Stskeeps (please don't spam about bacon. it is sacred.) | 14:53 | |
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| odin_ | just done another search to find out the state of larger than 1080, my fav brand still does not do 24" bigger than 1080p(athetic) to replace a model they had 18months ago | 14:53 |
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| CosmoHill | my dell monitor is 1680x1050 (16:10) which is good for work | 14:54 |
| CosmoHill | but it annoys the hell out of me that I can't have 16:9 on composite and s-video input | 14:54 |
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| kirma | "state of larger than 1080" ? | 14:55 |
| * kirma has been using 2560x1600 displays for years | 14:55 | |
| odin_ | whats the made/model ? | 14:55 |
| kirma | well, indeed, my displays haven't had any other input than dual-link dvi | 14:56 |
| * SwedeMike has been wanting a 20-24" 2560x1600 for a long time, doesn't seem to be happening though. | 14:56 | |
| kirma | HP LP3065 now | 14:56 |
| SwedeMike | 30" is just too big physically. | 14:57 |
| odin_ | hmm 30" :( 19" did 1600x1200 no problem, so why is 1920x1080 now 26" (when it was 24") | 14:57 |
| CosmoHill | I've sat in front of a 27" iMac | 14:57 |
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| CosmoHill | if I used that for a while I'd end up with a stiff neck | 14:57 |
| CosmoHill | you shouldn't have to move your head to look at things at eaither end of the monitor | 14:58 |
| odin_ | opps typo 1920x1200 | 14:58 |
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| odin_ | you don't have to use all the space of the monitor :) just pick a bit and make your window small enough so you dont have to move your head | 14:59 |
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| CosmoHill | what brand monitors do you have? | 15:10 |
| odin_ | iiyama | 15:12 |
| CosmoHill | I was looking at them, couldn't find a 16:10 | 15:14 |
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| CosmoHill | I think one of my problems is the current use of my monitor | 15:18 |
| CosmoHill | VGA, DVI, composite and S-Video are all used | 15:18 |
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| CosmoHill | I could move to VGA, DVI and HDMI but I'd need to replace my DVD player and skybox | 15:19 |
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| CosmoHill | I have one Dell and one LG | 15:29 |
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| CosmoHill | http://forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showthread.php?t=49362 | 15:36 |
| CosmoHill | oh my that was a big crash on iITV4 | 15:38 |
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| sivang | /away out | 16:01 |
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| magerquark | hi | 16:05 |
| CosmoHill | hey | 16:06 |
| magerquark | does anyone of you know, if meego fully supports the acer aspire one? | 16:06 |
| magerquark | hey cosmahill | 16:06 |
| magerquark | hey cosmohill | 16:06 |
| CosmoHill | iirc the apsire family has been going on for many years | 16:07 |
| CosmoHill | there is a list of supported devices on meego.com | 16:07 |
| magerquark | my one wasnt listed on this page | 16:07 |
| CosmoHill | what processor do you have? | 16:07 |
| magerquark | but it should work, it is a standard-netbook | 16:08 |
| magerquark | atom n2?0 | 16:08 |
| CosmoHill | processor? | 16:08 |
| magerquark | 270 perhaps? | 16:08 |
| CosmoHill | *graphics card | 16:08 |
| lordheavy | hi | 16:08 |
| magerquark | the normal intel thing | 16:08 |
| magerquark | gma 9something | 16:08 |
| CosmoHill | an good | 16:08 |
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| CosmoHill | you can boot meego off a memory stick so give that a go | 16:09 |
| lordheavy | what about support for 3g modems ? mine is not detected | 16:09 |
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| CosmoHill | ultimately that's the only way to find out if meego works on your computer | 16:09 |
| CosmoHill | lordheavy: no idea about that, no one has mentioned that so far | 16:09 |
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| lordheavy | it seem the connextion manager doesn't handle them | 16:10 |
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| CosmoHill | support for 3G USB modems might not be implemented yet | 16:10 |
| magerquark | i will install it 10 minutes to go | 16:11 |
| magerquark | does anyone know if there is virtualbox package in the meego repositories | 16:12 |
| CosmoHill | nope | 16:12 |
| magerquark | i want to virtualize win 98 and win xp | 16:12 |
| magerquark | ah ok | 16:12 |
| magerquark | then i have to setup a dualboot system | 16:12 |
| CosmoHill | I must admit I'd never even thought about running VM software on a netbook | 16:13 |
| magerquark | thank you very much | 16:13 |
| magerquark | i also never thought about it, but me and my friends are playing some old games once in a while, so it would be useful | 16:13 |
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| magerquark | i tried some opersting systems on my netbook, but none satisfied me | 16:15 |
| CosmoHill | can virtualbox run windows 98? | 16:16 |
| magerquark | ah is someone here, who belongs to the meego development team? | 16:16 |
| magerquark | it is possible, but it is a pain in the ass | 16:16 |
| magerquark | vmware is much better for win 98 | 16:16 |
| CosmoHill | I got 98 running on QEMU | 16:16 |
| magerquark | i never tried qemu | 16:16 |
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| magerquark | there is a broken link in the meego wiki | 16:18 |
| CosmoHill | link me | 16:19 |
| magerquark | http://launchpad.net/win32-image-writer/0.2/0.2/+download/win32diskimager-RELEASE-0.2-r23-win32.zip | 16:19 |
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| magerquark | doesnt work anymore | 16:19 |
| CosmoHill | wrong link? | 16:19 |
| CosmoHill | can you link me to the wiki page? | 16:19 |
| magerquark | si | 16:19 |
| magerquark | http://meego.com/devices/netbook/installing-meego-your-netbook | 16:19 |
| magerquark | und er windows instructions | 16:19 |
| magerquark | under windows instructions | 16:19 |
| CosmoHill | link 1? | 16:20 |
| CosmoHill | s/link/step/ | 16:20 |
| infobot | CosmoHill meant: step 1? | 16:20 |
| CosmoHill | link works for me | 16:20 |
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| magerquark | ah strange | 16:20 |
| CosmoHill | it happens | 16:20 |
| CosmoHill | few people can't download from meego but can download from my server | 16:21 |
| magerquark | ah now it also works on my computer | 16:21 |
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| CosmoHill | anyone else watching the BTCC? | 16:22 |
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| magerquark | no | 16:23 |
| CosmoHill | watching the marshals is funny | 16:24 |
| CosmoHill | they've towed one car backwards into a barrier | 16:24 |
| CosmoHill | and almost got another car beached on a flatbed | 16:24 |
| magerquark | i am not interested in motor sports | 16:25 |
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| magerquark | a few years ago i watched formula 1 | 16:25 |
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| magerquark | but since schumacher left, i wasnt really interested anymore | 16:25 |
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| CosmoHill | think guy speed bumper cars :) | 16:25 |
| CosmoHill | high* | 16:25 |
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| magerquark | how much space shall i give meego? | 16:33 |
| CosmoHill | how much spare do you have? | 16:34 |
| magerquark | i have 100 gb | 16:34 |
| CosmoHill | 5 ~ 10GB? | 16:34 |
| magerquark | ah cool | 16:34 |
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| magerquark | which file system? | 16:35 |
| magerquark | ext3 or btrfs? | 16:35 |
| CosmoHill | latter | 16:36 |
| magerquark | gracias | 16:37 |
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| CosmoHill | hmm, i thought you could deply a img on a usb using Disk Utility on mac | 16:45 |
| magerquark | seems to work flawlessly | 16:45 |
| magerquark | but my cpu fan is constantly blowing | 16:48 |
| CosmoHill | check your load? | 16:49 |
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| magerquark | .. | 17:23 |
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| juliank | Is it possible to boot MeeGo from the internal eMMC on the N900 instead of using a MicroSD? | 17:29 |
| juliank | /dev/mmcblk0 would be a MicroSD (which is not inserted), so I thought that /dev/mmcblk1 might be the eMMC | 17:30 |
| juliank | But this did not work, the kernel could not find the partition | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | juliank: yes, but you will have to destroy your emmc partition which isn't fun | 17:31 |
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| juliank | Stskeeps: I put the rootfs into /home (which has enough free space). | 17:32 |
| juliank | (and it's ext3 just like the normal root) | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | juliank: hmm, it should detect it if microsd isn't there | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | mmcblk0p1 is /home right? | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | juliank: how did you copy it? | 17:32 |
| juliank | Stskeeps: mount on the computer, and rsync to the N900. | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | k | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | should work.. | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | it should find mmcblk0p1 without issue by default | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | if the microsd isn't there | 17:34 |
| juliank | Stskeeps: In Maemo, mmcblk0p2 is /home. But running flasher-3.5 with -b"root=/dev/mmcblk0p2" did not work (and mmcblk1p2 did not either) | 17:34 |
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| Stskeeps | juliank: add 'rootwait' | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | grep CONFIG_CMDLINE /boot/config* to see the whole line you should use | 17:37 |
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| magerquark | does meego use grub? | 17:38 |
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| Stskeeps | magerquark: usually asking does meego on <X> use grub? would be a better question :) | 17:39 |
| magerquark | ah scusa | 17:39 |
| magerquark | i forgot | 17:39 |
| magerquark | x86 artom platform | 17:40 |
| magerquark | is here someone from the development team | 17:40 |
| magerquark | ? | 17:40 |
| Stskeeps | magerquark: x86 netbook traditionally uses syslinux | 17:41 |
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| magerquark | ah merci | 17:41 |
| magerquark | is ist possible to change to root | 17:41 |
| magerquark | ? | 17:41 |
| magerquark | i am more familiar with grub | 17:41 |
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| Stskeeps | not sure sorry | 17:42 |
| magerquark | ok, i will try it aout | 17:42 |
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| juliank | Stskeeps: Seems to work as long you do things in the right order:start flasher, insert battery -> device starts and boots MeeGo | 17:45 |
| juliank | Thanks | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | np | 17:46 |
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| Stskeeps | juliank: so exploring it out of curiousity or hoping to contribute? | 17:46 |
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| magerquark | is there a sync tool integrated, that syncs my gmail-account with meego :)? | 17:47 |
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| juliank | Stskeeps: both | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | juliank: cool, feel free to hang in #meego-arm then | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | that's where most of the meego/n900 related action happens :) | 17:48 |
| dm8tbr | magerquark: gmail speaks imap. I'd expect a mail client to surface at some point. | 17:50 |
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| magerquark | thx dm8tbr | 17:52 |
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| dotblank | hmm I can't seem to create a vm image with the image creator because it can't find the kernel image | 17:53 |
| dotblank | is there anyway to fix that? | 17:53 |
| * CosmoHill has specced up what he thinks is a meego capable computer for £205.63 | 17:56 | |
| Stskeeps | dotblank: what command line are you making and instructions used? | 17:56 |
| dotblank | sudo mic-image-creator --config=meego-preview-shcdk-core.ks --format=raw --arch=i586 --cache=mycache | 17:57 |
| dotblank | http://pastebin.com/phjiYq8d | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | why shcdk? | 17:59 |
| dotblank | well I want a handset image. also that was the image provided on the website | 18:00 |
| dotblank | not too sure what shcdk means | 18:00 |
| magerquark | ah cool, evolution is able to sync gmail contacts | 18:00 |
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| Stskeeps | dotblank: hmm, try kernel-mrst or kernel-netbook | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | what website url? | 18:01 |
| dotblank | http://meego.com/downloads | 18:01 |
| dotblank | if you clcik the download for moorestown | 18:02 |
| dotblank | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/0.9.80.1.20100330.1/core/images/meego-preview-shcdk-core/ | 18:02 |
| Stskeeps | ok, that .ks seems wildly out of date.. | 18:02 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | could you try http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.90.1.20100903.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-mtf/ instead? | 18:03 |
| dotblank | sure one sec | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | dotblank: also.. when you do get a handset UX up, could you do me a favour? try the desktop in 800x480 instead of 854x480 | 18:04 |
| dotblank | Stskeeps, sure.. what branch of image creator are you using.. its telling me that .ks has a syntax error | 18:05 |
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| dotblank | im on .17 | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | get 0.19 | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | (at leas) | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | t | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | or best, git master ;) | 18:05 |
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| dotblank | ok that seems to be working | 18:06 |
| dotblank | oh fun | 18:07 |
| dotblank | huge list of missing deps | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | dotblank: reason for me asking is because we have some odd problems on n900 and it would be good if someone could 'dismiss' them as a resolution independence problem | 18:07 |
| dotblank | Stskeeps, I would be glad to help with that once I get this working | 18:08 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 18:08 |
| Stskeeps | why do you need to generate your own, out of curiousity? | 18:08 |
| dotblank | unless you have a .raw I can just download | 18:08 |
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| dotblank | for qemugl | 18:08 |
| Stskeeps | there's one in that directorry | 18:08 |
| dotblank | what? | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.0.90.1.20100903.1/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-mtf/ would contain a 'raw', i believe | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | in the tar.bz2 | 18:09 |
| dotblank | oh ok downloading it now | 18:09 |
| dotblank | and btw http://pastebin.com/sKDke7fA | 18:10 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, need mic2 upgrade | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:10 |
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| dotblank | Stskeeps, it just had the boot image | 18:16 |
| dotblank | and sda1 image | 18:16 |
| dotblank | no raw | 18:16 |
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| dotblank | I wonder if qemu can boot from an image and have sda1 as the hd | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | sda1 image should be whole sd i believe | 18:17 |
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| Stskeeps | but not sure | 18:17 |
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| dotblank | hmm can't boot of sda1 | 18:21 |
| dotblank | off of* | 18:21 |
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| CosmoHill | magerquark: you're missing some fun here | 18:24 |
| CosmoHill | lots of cars have just gone flying off at the first corner | 18:24 |
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| magerquark | ^^ | 18:25 |
| magerquark | sunday is my electronic device day | 18:26 |
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| magerquark | setting up my netbook, my computer and my mobile phone has also some problems | 18:26 |
| magerquark | i hate it | 18:27 |
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| dotblank | Stskeeps, I got the sdk image working | 18:35 |
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| magerquark | how am ia ble to switch between running applications in meego | 18:37 |
| gabrbedd | magerquark: On my netbook, Alt+Tab works... but you can also use the application switcher thingie... | 18:39 |
| gabrbedd | magerquark: which is the circle divided into 4 parts. When you touch that icon, it will show you your running apps. | 18:40 |
| magerquark | gracias gabrbedd | 18:40 |
| gabrbedd | de nada. | 18:43 |
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| lolloo | How do you take screenshot of your N900? | 19:35 |
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| lolloo | How do you take screenshot of your N900? | 19:35 |
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| CosmoHill | lolloo: http://www.blogsdna.com/9161/how-to-take-screenshots-in-n900.htm | 19:42 |
| lolloo | CosmoHill: Thanks Bro! | 19:44 |
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| thiago_home | it also works to VNC in to your N900 | 20:03 |
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| * Cosmo[PB] watches Transformers | 20:22 | |
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| CosmoHill | why the hell am I still watching transformers when I have sky movies >.< | 21:14 |
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| th0br0 | :P CosmoHill | 21:16 |
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| * CosmoHill changes to Transporter 4 | 21:19 | |
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| Nitial | there's fourth? | 21:20 |
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| tybollt_ | transporter? w/ statham? | 21:21 |
| tybollt_ | gimme a break : | 21:21 |
| tybollt_ | ) | 21:21 |
| CosmoHill | yes | 21:21 |
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| CosmoHill | *3 | 21:21 |
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| CosmoHill | I watched one recently so I was doing maths | 21:21 |
| th0br0 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drE5cHe6c3s&feature=PlayList&p=D53C52973A681677&index=0&playnext=1 maths ? :D | 21:24 |
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| Jaffa | re | 21:24 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Isn't "phone application doesn't start and allow user to make calls" a 'bug'? ;-) | 21:25 |
| CosmoHill | you'd think so but no | 21:26 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: hmm? it started for me last time | 21:38 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, thats cos you are using the newer build that you made a call with that no1 else can | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: not true | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:41 |
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| lcuk | isnt that what you said on friday? | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | in fact, all the repos are open to public to build an image for themselves | 21:41 |
| lcuk | <TomaszD> is that in the build? | 21:42 |
| lcuk | <TomaszD> (I'm guessing it isn't :P) | 21:42 |
| lcuk | <Stskeeps> not yet, we need to get it approved as we patch pulseaudio | 21:42 |
| lcuk | <Stskeeps> nothing closed source though | 21:42 |
| lcuk | not at all implying its closed, its just not in the builds humans can actually install :P | 21:43 |
| TomaszD | anyone can build it, as long as they're a wizard, is what Stskeeps is implying | 21:43 |
| TomaszD | here, take it | 21:43 |
| TomaszD | ;) | 21:43 |
| * lcuk nods | 21:44 | |
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| * Stskeeps plays openttd | 21:46 | |
| * CosmoHill loves Stskeeps | 21:46 | |
| * CosmoHill now regrets saying that | 21:46 | |
| CosmoHill | anyway: openttd yay | 21:46 |
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| * TomaszD bought minecraft yesterday and is beginning to get hooked | 21:47 | |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, do you expect a long upstreaming process to get PA patches merged? | 21:47 |
| lcuk | or should it be in the weekly when it rolls round? | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: good question | 21:50 |
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| Stskeeps | i don't have an answer, otherwise it'd be in the page | 21:50 |
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| * lcuk nods again | 21:53 | |
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| ScottishDuck | sigh | 23:16 |
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