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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:36 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 03:26 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | is there any real difference between the US and global variants of the firmware? | 03:27 |
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| Termana | good morning | 03:39 |
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| Stskeeps | morning | 07:42 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, good morning | 07:43 |
| Stskeeps | morn Termana | 07:44 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, I got your email - I'll see what I can do. I think I'll re-implement the code (and separate it into separate patches in the process), its not exactly all that mainline friendly in its current state - eg. n800 use has been cancelled out and it also hard disables things it shouldn't need to. | 07:47 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: it is a long-term project, for now i'm fine with a big patch | 07:49 |
| Stskeeps | it's simply that we keep the patches a bit seperate instead of a 800kb patch :) | 07:49 |
| Termana | mmm. I'm not sure how trying to upstream it will go though - I think n8x0 REQUIRES cbus (?) | 07:50 |
| Termana | AFAIK cbus has been denied from mainline | 07:50 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 07:50 |
| Stskeeps | well, either way, it being visible what we have can only help :) | 07:51 |
| Stskeeps | i don't expect everything to mainline | 07:51 |
| Termana | Right, making it easier to upstream is the first step :P tsc2005 should already be on to way upstream, thanks to Nokia and the n900 | 07:52 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 07:52 |
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| Jartza | morning | 07:53 |
| Termana | Jartza, good morning | 07:54 |
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| Jartza | time for another maemo-qt-programming-course :) | 08:08 |
| Stskeeps | i should really sit down and learn qt properly at some point | 08:08 |
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| Jartza | yes, it's quite nice | 08:10 |
| Jartza | and heaven compared to gtk+ :) | 08:10 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 08:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:10 |
| rektide | does meego run under VirtualBox? probably runs under QEMU, no? any other emus? | 08:11 |
| Termana | rektide, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Qemu | 08:11 |
| asjWrk | Stskeeps: if you're going to learn Qt might as well learn QML (Quick or what ever it's called) | 08:11 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 08:12 |
| rektide | i'd rather run x86 meego | 08:12 |
| Stskeeps | rektide: do you have a x86 with SSSE3 extension? | 08:13 |
| Stskeeps | (yes, 3 S'es) | 08:13 |
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| rektide | Stskeeps: this laptop is Core 2 Duo, which is yes. my desktop is amd, which is no. | 08:14 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 08:15 |
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| Termana | SSSE3 requirement seems more like Intel lock-in then technical requirement. Although VIA Nano also implements SSSE3. | 08:16 |
| Stskeeps | well, i'm actually not sure | 08:17 |
| Stskeeps | it certainly helps lock-in, but amd has it too in some processors | 08:17 |
| rektide | hm i dont believe so, not presently | 08:18 |
| Termana | Stskeeps, wikipedia lists no AMD processors with SSSE3 | 08:18 |
| Termana | But, I mean, its wikipedia so... :P | 08:18 |
| rektide | i've done a marginally less cursory job and i see no ssse3 support listed for amd, but again, thats only marginally less so | 08:18 |
| rektide | anyways | 08:18 |
| rektide | from my experience with openwrt | 08:19 |
| Termana | And lets face it, VIA Nano doesn't exactly have the best reputation anyway AFAIK | 08:19 |
| rektide | i picture os's as having some kind of buildroot, some kind of environment to coordinate building the dozens of various packages and to put them into an image | 08:19 |
| rektide | i'm not sure how much that buildroot manifest destiny MIC2 fulfils | 08:19 |
| Stskeeps | OBS and mic2 probably covers most of those :P | 08:19 |
| rektide | including compiling kernels, and packaging dependencies like X into whatever is about to be the os image? | 08:20 |
| rektide | if so, | 08:20 |
| Termana | Also though, I don't think AMD has anything to compete with regarding Atom | 08:20 |
| Termana | Feel free to point me towards a processor from AMD that competes with Atom | 08:20 |
| rektide | if so, it seems like recompiling the OS without SSSE3 support should be trivial | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | it is, the probem is just about all the apps | 08:22 |
| Termana | Stskeeps beat me to it :P | 08:22 |
| rektide | how is that problematic? | 08:22 |
| Termana | rektide, if apps are compiled with SSSE3 | 08:22 |
| Termana | then you can't run the apps on a non-SSSE3 processor | 08:23 |
| rektide | but the apps should be compiled by OBS | 08:23 |
| rektide | so just compile them without SSSE3 | 08:23 |
| Termana | Well - if you want to be recompiling stuff in the repo to run, be my guest - but most people won't want to do that, they'll want something already packaged. | 08:23 |
| rektide | i'm fine with compiling my entire OS | 08:24 |
| rektide | i've been doing it for openwrt for years | 08:24 |
| rektide | but openwrt makes it drop dead unbelievably simple to do | 08:24 |
| rektide | i'm still trying to get a mental image of what would be required to do this on MeeGo | 08:24 |
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| Stskeeps | rektide: drop it all into a obs project, recompile | 08:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:26 |
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| rektide | OBS kinda scares me tbh | 08:32 |
| rektide | i've spent plenty enough time with Hudson, a java build system | 08:32 |
| Stskeeps | after getting to know it, it's actually quite nice :P | 08:32 |
| rektide | and its not too far away from becoming sentient | 08:32 |
| rektide | cant be that bad | 08:32 |
| rektide | do you have an obs system, or just your workstation? | 08:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | remind me to never mix C and C++ and GTK | 08:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | again | 08:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | *bash-head-with-brick* | 08:33 |
| Stskeeps | rektide: i usually connect up with a obs instance but not my own often | 08:33 |
| rektide | i wonder how much build-system domain knowledge hexxeh has acquired distributing chromeos | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | well, obs is a builder, not like bitbake etc | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | it builds packages, simply | 08:34 |
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| rektide | compiling an arm system via obs would require what? the packages need to be cross compiled, how does that happen? | 08:38 |
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| rektide | i assume obs solution | 08:38 |
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| rektide | is just to run obs in arm under qemu ? | 08:38 |
| * slonopotamus becomes bored of build system talks | 08:39 | |
| rektide | i just become pained by build system talks | 08:39 |
| rektide | you can keep your boredom | 08:39 |
| Stskeeps | rektide: it can construct a dual arm and x86 binary chroot which effectively cross compiles them | 08:40 |
| rektide | if you're on x86 though you dont really cross compile, you just specify compiler flags | 08:40 |
| rektide | its crossing the arch barrier | 08:40 |
| Stskeeps | and? doesn't mean it has to be difficult :) | 08:41 |
| rektide | where you have to cross compile, use an emulator. | 08:41 |
| rektide | obs doesnt have to be installed in the chroot | 08:41 |
| rektide | the cross arch chroot | 08:41 |
| rektide | it just has to have the compiler for that target on that system | 08:41 |
| rektide | i presume ? | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | right | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/Cross_Build | 08:42 |
| Stskeeps | all happening automatically though | 08:42 |
| rektide | ok so the problem is just really | 08:43 |
| rektide | there is no script of obs's that need to be run | 08:43 |
| rektide | to make an image | 08:43 |
| rektide | obs jobs | 08:43 |
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| Stskeeps | go get an account at build.opensuse.org and check out Maemo:Mer:Devel and check out build status/logs for one of the _cross repos | 08:44 |
| Stskeeps | illustrates it much better :) | 08:45 |
| rektide | i was talking about for meego | 08:45 |
| Stskeeps | yes, same kind of system of cross compilation | 08:45 |
| rektide | specifically re: < Stskeeps> rektide: drop it all into a obs project, recompile | 08:45 |
| rektide | "it all" ? | 08:46 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, script a osc linkpac from the repo you want to build, set new project settings, and it will rebuild it | 08:46 |
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| rektide | higher level | 08:48 |
| rektide | mic2 | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | mic2 is like debootstrap | 08:49 |
| rektide | obs-project-config seems to be the main list of things to get built | 08:51 |
| rektide | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools/obs-project-config/blobs/master/MeeGo:1.0:Core | 08:51 |
| Stskeeps | no, that's just build settings | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | things to get build is the packages in the project | 08:52 |
| rektide | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/package-groups | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | no, not that either | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | did you go make that account so you can take a look at how OBS is set up? :P | 08:53 |
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| rektide | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/package-groups/blobs/master/comps.xml | 08:53 |
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| rektide | thats basically meego's buildroot configuration in openwrt | 08:54 |
| rektide | the list of packages & profiles to be baked into the final system image | 08:54 |
| rektide | Stskeeps: i havent setup OBS yet, no | 08:54 |
| rektide | want to figure out how this OS compiles first | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | rektide: no, but going to go look at the structure of it :P | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | and no, package-groups isn't the packages/profiles | 08:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:56 |
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| Stskeeps | source packages are made into binary packages and those binary packages are eventually by some mechanism made into a image | 08:56 |
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| rektide | you are wrong | 08:59 |
| * Termana goes to grab the popcorn | 08:59 | |
| rektide | there's a lot of parallels between openwrt buildroot and package-groups | 08:59 |
| rektide | there's just not the fine grained mechanism of control in meego | 09:00 |
| Stskeeps | .. | 09:00 |
| rektide | although the build settings i think specify the arch more | 09:00 |
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| rektide | that is, obs-project-config | 09:00 |
| rektide | i think i have to just download everything then start grepping for easily identifiable gcc flags, i havent found many yet | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | well, you had me at 'you are wrong', because i do actually know how things are set up :P | 09:01 |
| rektide | Optflags: i686 %{__global_cflags} -m32 -march=core2 -mssse3 -mtune=atom -mfpmath=sse -fasynchronous-unwind-tables | 09:01 |
| * Stskeeps goes make coffee | 09:01 | |
| rektide | whatever eat popcorn dude | 09:01 |
| rektide | Optflags: armv7l %{__global_cflags} -fmessage-length=0 -march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mlittle-endian -mfpu=vfpv3 -mfloat-abi=softfp -D__SOFTFP__ | 09:02 |
| rektide | -mssse3 | 09:02 |
| rektide | there | 09:02 |
| rektide | i just entered openwrt buildroot | 09:02 |
| rektide | and changed the flag | 09:02 |
| rektide | and now my image will bake different | 09:02 |
| rektide | peace out goodnight thank you i'll be here all week | 09:02 |
| rektide | qed | 09:02 |
| rektide | just dont leave cause i dont know what order i need to shove things down obs's throat | 09:03 |
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| rektide | where'd you move Termana , nice theater seating with that popcorn? | 09:08 |
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| Khertan_Home | Hi ! | 11:19 |
| dcthang | Hi KH | 11:20 |
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| Deepa | hi how to solve import error for pykickstart.parser, while creating meego image? | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | install pykickstart :) | 11:30 |
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| Deepa | which version? | 11:32 |
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| lbt | dneary: I'm thinking the meego wiki needs some structure | 11:53 |
| dneary | lbt, Me too | 11:53 |
| lbt | I don't like that the new devices page puts devices as top level pages | 11:54 |
| lbt | am I being OCD | 11:54 |
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| lbt | I wanted to do : http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/N900 | 11:55 |
| lbt | as a template | 11:55 |
| lbt | oh, they're external links | 11:56 |
| lbt | I missed that :) | 11:56 |
| dneary | For the moment subpages aren't enabled in the main namespace of the wiki | 11:57 |
| dneary | Just saw that this morning | 11:57 |
| dneary | lbt, I had an idea which I think is a cracker | 11:57 |
| dneary | But I don't quite know how to make it happen | 11:57 |
| dneary | A community-generated code sample library | 11:57 |
| X-Fade | dneary -> townxelliot | 11:58 |
| townxelliot | dneary: I was thinking we needed a code sample library last week... | 11:58 |
| dneary | townxelliot, Cool | 11:58 |
| dneary | I proposed it to macron | 11:58 |
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| dneary | The idea I had is that anyone could upload a code sample (Ã la pastebot) | 11:59 |
| townxelliot | dneary: as for the subpages thing - log it in bugs.meego.com | 11:59 |
| dneary | And anyone could rank code samples, comment on them, propose improvements | 11:59 |
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| lbt | the 'sample code' is part of the developer documentaion concept | 11:59 |
| dneary | And then you could add categories, browse top-ranked samples, search for specific API calls | 11:59 |
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| lbt | it needs to illustrate a learning point | 11:59 |
| lbt | and/or be x-ref'ed to docs | 12:00 |
| dneary | townxelliot, Will do | 12:00 |
| lbt | I was going to say "it should be best-practice too" | 12:00 |
| dneary | I just found out when Quim commented that slashes in page names weren't doing what he expected, this morning | 12:00 |
| townxelliot | lbt: the mechanics of it needs discussion; there's no need to mandate it's tied to other docs, as well-commented code can be fairly self-explanatory | 12:00 |
| lbt | but maybe we should have code review tags so it can get +/- on best-practice-tag | 12:01 |
| lbt | townxelliot: it can also be shite :) | 12:01 |
| townxelliot | lbt: but yes, best practice would be a good idea | 12:01 |
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| dneary | lbt, townxelliot: See http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=99 for my ideas around devel docs & code libraries | 12:01 |
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| lbt | dneary: I'm waiting for the email integration... if we devs aren't important to the meego community... | 12:01 |
| dneary | We also need to leverage the fact that we have a bunch of application source code lying around (esp. when we have a user distribution channel up & running) and it should also be searchable for API calls | 12:02 |
| lbt | the -dev mailing list is the place for this :) | 12:02 |
| townxelliot | dneary: we started a code samples repo for Moblin, but only just started it when it changed to MeeGo | 12:02 |
| dneary | lbt, http://wiki.meego.com/Community_working_group#Proposed_Tasks:_not_committed_yet | 12:03 |
| townxelliot | dneary: are you aware of anything we could use which would perhaps leverage git as a back-end? I'm hesitant to put code into anything which isn't a VCS | 12:03 |
| dneary | townxelliot, There's a substantial existing code samples lib for Maemo too | 12:03 |
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| lbt | I'd like to see this done more professionally | 12:03 |
| lbt | less code, more annotation | 12:03 |
| lbt | more x-refs | 12:04 |
| X-Fade | These examples tend to go stale quite a soon though. | 12:04 |
| lbt | *nod* | 12:04 |
| dneary | townxelliot, I keep thinking that a ReviewBoard type interface would be ideal | 12:04 |
| lbt | and having too many is useless | 12:04 |
| lbt | dneary: yes indeed | 12:04 |
| dneary | townxelliot, Or, as you say, integrating with a git web interface | 12:04 |
| dneary | Minimum requirements for me: | 12:05 |
| dneary | 1. Anyone can upload a code sample | 12:05 |
| dneary | 2. Anyone can score, annotate, comment on a code sample | 12:05 |
| dneary | 3. Anyone can add categories to a code sample | 12:05 |
| dneary | 4. All code samples are searchable by task or API | 12:06 |
| dneary | 5. Code samples should be browsable by category, and ordered by score | 12:06 |
| dneary | Then, ideally, you would also have "Anyone can update a code sample" | 12:06 |
| dneary | But that seems like a pipe dream to me :) | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | or potentially dangerous without moderation :P | 12:07 |
| lbt | mmm | 12:07 |
| dneary | All code samples should be licenced BSD or similar | 12:07 |
| dneary | I'm thinking wiki of code | 12:07 |
| lbt | OK, conceptually, yes | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | dneary: That is not going to work. | 12:07 |
| lbt | practically..... | 12:07 |
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| X-Fade | What if you include that BSD code in your GPL code ;) | 12:07 |
| dneary | X-Fade, That's fine - BSD can be relicenced as GPL | 12:08 |
| dneary | X-Fade, That's the point | 12:08 |
| dneary | If you choose GPL, you can only use it in GPL, but if you choose something sufficiently liberal (like BSD 3-clause, or Artistic, or Apache 2.0) you're OK to use it in pretty much anything, including proporietary apps | 12:09 |
| Surfa | MIT is quite fine too | 12:09 |
| * lbt feels it may be a tad early to discuss the license... | 12:09 | |
| lbt | just a tad mind you... | 12:09 |
| lbt | maybe 2013 ? | 12:09 |
| lbt | dneary: what's the point of this library? | 12:10 |
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| dneary | lbt, Let me ask you a question first - what user interface do you think you would have to the code library? | 12:12 |
| dneary | Or rather, what would you like to have? | 12:13 |
| lbt | well, that was the driver to my question | 12:13 |
| lbt | am I learning? | 12:13 |
| lbt | hacking and need a "like this" | 12:13 |
| lbt | reminder of syntax? | 12:13 |
| lbt | neat tricks? (MeeGo/Qt Cookbook) | 12:14 |
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| lbt | or is it CPAN? | 12:14 |
| lbt | I expect a functional module I can just use? | 12:14 |
| lbt | oops... gotta go... back in an hr | 12:14 |
| lbt | sounds +ve though... | 12:14 |
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| townxelliot | dneary, lbt: for my purposes, I need somewhere to put code snippets and full apps which demonstrate MeeGo APIs; which can be linked to tutorials, cookbook recipes etc. | 12:17 |
| townxelliot | dneary: while I like the "wiki of code" idea to an extent, I'm not sure if that would end up too chaotic and unruly to be useful | 12:17 |
| dneary | lbt, For me I wasn't thinking compilable programmes | 12:18 |
| townxelliot | dneary: I'd actually prefer to run it as a code project, but maybe layer something on top to rate usefulness | 12:18 |
| townxelliot | dneary: I think they have to be compilable to be useful, personally; otherwise you've got zero guarantee they're useful | 12:18 |
| dneary | I was thinking: "I want to get a table of thumbnails from the media library here" -> search media thumbnals -> get a bunch of snippets which I can parse & plug together to make it work | 12:19 |
| dneary | More like a box of lego or meccano than anything else | 12:19 |
| dneary | townxelliot, That's certainly the easiest way to run it, and that's how it was done in Maemo | 12:19 |
| dneary | townxelliot, The issues with that are that there's very little motivation to actively maintaining a sample code library, and it's also a little trickier to add new contrib samples | 12:20 |
| townxelliot | dneary: I've got a motivation to maintain it if it's the basis for documentation I'm writing | 12:20 |
| dneary | I would really like to avoid any central point where people have to ask for permission to publish a code snippet, a function or one source file | 12:21 |
| dneary | townxelliot, Sure - in reality we've seen the code samples for Maemo bitrot over the years | 12:21 |
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| townxelliot | dneary: if we're using git (for example), it's easy enough to clone the samples, modify them, and request a merge (gitorious makes this trivial); true, you've got a "central point" of sorts, but only if it's maintained well | 12:28 |
| dneary | townxelliot, You don't think that something like a Stack Overflow user-interface would be more useful to developers (only the useful snippets, ranked answers, with discussion in the context of a specific problem)? | 12:29 |
| dneary | The major downfall (IMHO) of compilable & runnable code sample libraries is that you have to figure out which bits are overhead to get it to compile, and where the meat & 2 veg of the code sample is | 12:30 |
| townxelliot | dneary: I think those things are very useful, yes; maybe we're thinking of different use cases we can't support with one tool | 12:31 |
| dneary | I really like the QT example app for the way they've integrated the code into itself, but that isn't exactly scalable or open to user input | 12:31 |
| dneary | townxelliot, Perhaps | 12:31 |
| X-Fade | That is why I think that code samples should exist in the same source tree as their libs for instance, so they track api changes etc. | 12:31 |
| dneary | townxelliot, As a maintainer & documenter, you will need code samples for the developer guide | 12:31 |
| dneary | townxelliot, And you will need to make sure that they compile and run | 12:32 |
| X-Fade | You have to be very dedicated to keep external ones in sync. | 12:32 |
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| sivang | re | 12:32 |
| dneary | So, in that case, it makes sense to either produce docs from comments (gtkdoc model) or somehow link code samples and docs (like in Maemo) | 12:32 |
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| townxelliot | X-Fade: I agree for cases where the examples are specific to that library, but what about where you're documenting development of an application? you need somewhere for that code too | 12:32 |
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| dneary | And, as X-Fade says, keeping external code samples in sync is hard | 12:33 |
| townxelliot | X-Fade: it doesn't naturally sit with the libs | 12:33 |
| dneary | X-Fade, I would argue that if you're going for a searchable forum model, that that doesn't matter too much, as older code will end up being lower rated | 12:33 |
| X-Fade | townxelliot: Well if you can automatically build example apps against a certain lib, you can at least get notified when things break. | 12:33 |
| townxelliot | X-Fade: that's the approach I've been attempting - tools like MADDE make this possible in my case | 12:35 |
| X-Fade | townxelliot: I think that solution scales a lot better than manual checking or bug reporting. | 12:35 |
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| X-Fade | Examples are great, but end up doing more harm than good when outdated. | 12:36 |
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| X-Fade | Although having no examples is even worse ;) | 12:37 |
| townxelliot | X-Fade: I'm all too aware of the difficulty and problems with outdated examples (I've been writing and maintaining Moblin examples + documentation for the last 6 months as APIs shift), but hopefully can do a decent job of maintaining the ones I write | 12:40 |
| dneary | townxelliot, In any case, it's probably a good idea that you & macron keep tabs on each other's plans & make sure they all fit together | 12:40 |
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| dneary | townxelliot, I really like the web-hosted repository of annotated code snippets myself, I have wanted something like that several times in the past. | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | townxelliot: As long as we have dedicated people working on it, I'm sure it should be fine. Really not wanting to use stop-energy here. | 12:41 |
| townxelliot | dneary: definitely, I'll do that; I don't want to sound down on the idea of a code wiki, as I think it's a great idea; but there's this tension between quality and freedom I'm still resolving in my own mind... | 12:41 |
| dneary | And both compilable samples & snippets are needed. | 12:41 |
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| dneary | townxelliot, I have faith in the law of averages and a rating system to allow the cream to float to the top | 12:42 |
| townxelliot | dneary: maybe I'm just too cynical ;) | 12:43 |
| dneary | I don't doubt that it'll be a big inverse log curve, with a few high quality snippets and a lot of crap, but as long as the crap clearly gets identified as crap I don't mind | 12:43 |
| dneary | townxelliot, So are you a fan of the singer of the same name, by the way? | 12:44 |
| dneary | townxelliot, And does mshaver know Mozilla's Mike Shaver? | 12:44 |
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| townxelliot | dneary: I've got one of his albums which I quite like | 12:44 |
| townxelliot | dneary: he's never mentioned his Mozilla counterpart | 12:44 |
| dneary | I thought they were one and the same, but I noticed the pictures are different | 12:45 |
| dneary | And since obviously you're alive, you are not the same person as the singer. So I guessed that all on my own | 12:46 |
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| Khertan_Home | Hi ! | 13:00 |
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| Abhi_ | hi | 13:01 |
| Khertan_Home | While currently trying to create a meego image for netbook to test it on my Samsung n130 ... using the following commands : sudo mic-image-creator --config=meego-preview-netbook-core.ks --format=liveusb --cache=mycache return me an error : File "/usr/local/bin/mic-image-creator", line 560, in main | 13:02 |
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| Khertan_Home | raise FatalError("failed to create image : %s" % e) | 13:02 |
| Khertan_Home | UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\xe9' in position 47: ordinal not in range(128) | 13:02 |
| Khertan_Home | is it something know ? | 13:02 |
| Abhi_ | how to create meego rootfs using mic2? | 13:02 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 13:02 |
| Khertan_Home | Abhi_, i'm currently following the wiki : http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation_For_Beginners | 13:02 |
| Khertan_Home | :) | 13:02 |
| Abhi_ | am using follwing options : " sudo mic-image-creator --config=arm-n900.ks --format=fs --cache=mycache -a armv5tel" | 13:02 |
| Abhi_ | but with this am geeting follwoing error "Error: Image format 'fs' not supported" | 13:03 |
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| Abhi_ | has anyone tried creating the meego rootfs with format-fs? | 13:05 |
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| Abhi_ | will this option for format=fs work or not? | 13:10 |
| Abhi_ | if not how to create rootfs? | 13:10 |
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| deepa | how to create meego rootfs using mic2? | 13:14 |
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| Khertan_Home | Hi ! deepa | 13:17 |
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| TheBootroo | hello i ve got a question : as i saw many DUI bugs references in MeeGo Projects Bug Jar, does this means that MeeGo 1.0 is coming with Harmattan as Handset UX ? | 13:19 |
| Khertan_Home | deepa, http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation_For_Beginners | 13:20 |
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| Khertan_Home | deepa, i'm currently trying to create the img too | 13:20 |
| Khertan_Home | but ... i ve got many problems currently | 13:20 |
| Khertan_Home | :)Ã | 13:20 |
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| Khertan_Home | to be exact ... got an error in the error msg :) | 13:21 |
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| Khertan_Home | Error: failed to create image : Failed to find group 'Core' : Aucun groupe nommé Core n'existe | 13:33 |
| Khertan_Home | hum | 13:33 |
| Khertan_Home | no @Core in repository ? | 13:34 |
| Khertan_Home | strange | 13:34 |
| abhi_ | is format=fs available? | 13:34 |
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| dneary | townxelliot, Just a data point I came across: http://www.refactory.org/ | 13:36 |
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| Khertan_Home | http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation_For_Beginners#Creating_a_MeeGo_Image <<< i ve just edited the wiki ... to specify the renamme of the "base" and "core" package | 13:46 |
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| Nadley | hi everybody | 13:50 |
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| townxelliot | dneary: interesting... | 13:57 |
| dneary | Not much code in there yet | 13:57 |
| dneary | But some elements of the idea I have | 13:58 |
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| clipartcat | lol. does anyone know where is battery life specs for n900?-) http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ | 14:27 |
| clipartcat | i'll think about returning that piece of shit and trust in emulator | 14:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | Hello - n900. Has anyone tried booting from SD? I've attempted getting the codedrop-arm image and zimage from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/n900/images/ - extracting to (ext2) sd, and then booting with ./flasher-3.5 -R -broot=/dev/mmcblk1p0 | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Any reason why this shouldn't work? | 14:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | Has anyone booted meego on SD on n900? I've tried extracting image to SD, and booting with root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 - with no results. | 18:02 |
| Surfa | sounds exotic | 18:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. I'm trying to get this working as I've stupidly borked my n900 booting due to fiddling with init scripts - and I have some things on / I'd rather not lose. | 18:07 |
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| CosmoHill | *thud* | 19:04 |
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| th0br0 | heya. | 19:48 |
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| CosmoHill | hey th0br0 | 19:52 |
| th0br0 | heya CosmoHill | 19:52 |
| th0br0 | how're your assignments doing? | 19:52 |
| CosmoHill | handed in group design today | 19:52 |
| CosmoHill | never seen so much work | 19:52 |
| CosmoHill | we had to use plan B | 19:52 |
| CosmoHill | which was our own printer | 19:52 |
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| th0br0 | ^^ | 19:53 |
| th0br0 | why did plan a fail? | 19:53 |
| CosmoHill | no idea | 19:54 |
| CosmoHill | Plan A was to use the uni printer via USB | 19:54 |
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| CosmoHill | two more assignments togo | 20:17 |
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| PSW | Are you looking to work from home to earn extra cash, just by answering calls? Check this out. It's real and eligible! Feel free to ask any questions. http://www.pswva.com/uk/1000310/ | 20:35 |
| CosmoHill | Someone needs a virus scan | 20:36 |
| PSW | Who? | 20:36 |
| CosmoHill | you | 20:36 |
| PSW | Nope, lol. It's an actual valid site. | 20:36 |
| PSW | I've been working with them for the last 8 months. | 20:36 |
| PSW | Just felt I should spread the word. There are no expensives before receving money. | 20:37 |
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| andre__ | PSW: please fuck off for your spamming. thanks a bunch | 20:38 |
| NTU | lol | 20:38 |
| PSW | I am not spamming. I am delivering a message across to multiple users, andre. | 20:38 |
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| CosmoHill | :D | 20:39 |
| NTU | yay! | 20:39 |
| * NTU parties | 20:39 | |
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| andre__ | PSW: sure, fuck you | 20:39 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o andre__ | 20:40 | |
| CosmoHill | andre he's gone | 20:40 |
| NTU | lol | 20:40 |
| CosmoHill | we reported him to freenode staff | 20:40 |
| andre__ | oh. fine. :-P | 20:40 |
| *** andre__ sets mode: -o andre__ | 20:40 | |
| CosmoHill | but nice to know you're an op | 20:40 |
| andre__ | didn't know either. just tried. :-D | 20:40 |
| CosmoHill | hmm | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | chanserv is your friend | 20:42 |
| andre__ | yeah, had a beer with him a few days ago. seems like that paid off | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | [Notice] -ChanServ- 3 andre__ +votriA [modified 12 weeks, 0 days, 05:37:07 ago] | 20:43 |
| andre__ | ah | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | the few days seem to be more like 12 weeks ago | 20:43 |
| NTU | hehehhe | 20:43 |
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| andre__ | don't remember. I was young at that time and needed the money | 20:44 |
| * DocScrutinizer cackles | 20:44 | |
| CosmoHill | andre__: broke straight boy you say? | 20:44 |
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| CosmoHill | (fyi don't got on it's home page, it's NSFW) | 20:45 |
| andre__ | oh no, rumours! :-D | 20:45 |
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| jykae | hello,is the meeting 18.5 right place to involve in meego community? | 20:52 |
| * DocScrutinizer slaps CosmoHill | 20:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer | when I said "PSW is a spammer" on #freenode, he answered "you too" ;-P | 20:52 |
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| CosmoHill | hehe | 20:53 |
| CosmoHill | DocScrutinizer: I didn't mean like that | 20:54 |
| CosmoHill | i meant like" oh you have a problem with him too" | 20:54 |
| jykae | I want to learn meego, I'm also chairman in the Ubuntu Finland community | 20:54 |
| jykae | anyone with information here? | 20:55 |
| GAN900 | andre__, I tried to get all of the maemo.org staff on access for #meego* | 20:55 |
| andre__ | GAN900, ah, thanks :) didn't know | 20:56 |
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| CosmoHill | hey DawnFoster | 20:59 |
| DawnFoster | hey CosmoHill | 20:59 |
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| jani | jykae: i guess your question is rather broad to answer. | 21:09 |
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| Stskeeps | evening | 21:54 |
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| lbt | o/ | 21:58 |
| * lbt turns off his n900 in disgust... wlan... paff | 21:59 | |
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| Stskeeps | wlan issues? | 21:59 |
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| lbt | won't connect anymore | 22:00 |
| lbt | been fine for weeks, months even | 22:00 |
| lbt | meh, 1.2 | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | grab wlancond and such from the sdk? :P | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 22:00 |
| lbt | no, not had time to get into it | 22:01 |
| lbt | want to get fremantle working on the OBS at night | 22:01 |
| lbt | had a good chat with anas/sasha/ramez today | 22:01 |
| lbt | and we're working on an event system for the OBS to a workflow framework | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 22:02 |
| lbt | yeah, notifications and automated workflow | 22:02 |
| lbt | so right now I'm debating stopping django and doing fremantle | 22:03 |
| lbt | which is de-sboxing things... | 22:03 |
| lbt | ugh | 22:03 |
| lbt | and the hack/build/test cycle is horrible | 22:03 |
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| th0br0 | heya lbt | 22:13 |
| th0br0 | sounds nice :) | 22:14 |
| th0br0 | lbt: do you know what the internal reasons for chosing obs were? | 22:14 |
| lbt | it's good | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | choosing obs for meego? | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo Stskeeps | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | lo DocScrutinizer | 22:16 |
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| th0br0 | Stskeeps: yes :) | 22:17 |
| th0br0 | It just sounds like some huge pita. | 22:17 |
| lbt | Nah, it's a great system | 22:17 |
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| th0br0 | not that i know of any better alternatives, only koji maybe but i don't know whether that has the same functionality. | 22:17 |
| lbt | the only pita is that there's no public access to the meego one | 22:17 |
| th0br0 | k | 22:17 |
| th0br0 | will ever be? | 22:17 |
| lbt | mmm | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | define public | 22:18 |
| lbt | via the one I'm building ... yes | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | team member/committer access, i would hope so | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | public public, i wouldn't bet on anything but read-only | 22:18 |
| th0br0 | just what sort of important stuff is on the meego obs that ... ? | 22:18 |
| lbt | the event system ^^^ we're hoping to setup to start sending commit emails to a mailing list | 22:18 |
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| th0br0 | Are you using git? | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | th0br0: i think it's also about resourcing | 22:19 |
| th0br0 | If so, why not install a post hook? | 22:19 |
| th0br0 | (or whatever type of hook would be suitable here ... ) | 22:19 |
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| lbt | th0br0: a lot of the objectives of HADRON (the event system) are to manage behaviours from those hooks | 22:20 |
| th0br0 | which has yet to be written? | 22:20 |
| lbt | it's the day job... | 22:20 |
| lbt | but yes | 22:20 |
| lbt | I prototyped it a few weeks ago | 22:20 |
| th0br0 | python? | 22:21 |
| lbt | commit to git ----------> MeeGo image | 22:21 |
| lbt | all via, yes, python/dbus | 22:21 |
| lbt | used louie to do dispatching | 22:21 |
| lbt | signal/slot type pub/sub | 22:21 |
| lbt | we're looking at http://www.rabbitmq.com too | 22:22 |
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| th0br0 | Language? C++? | 22:22 |
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| th0br0 | ah, Erlang. | 22:22 |
| ml-mobile | whee | 22:23 |
| lbt | mmm | 22:24 |
| th0br0 | The simplest solution would be creating commits mailing lists i guess... | 22:24 |
| lbt | the main thing is it's supposed to have good bindings | 22:24 |
| th0br0 | That's what fedora uses anyway. | 22:24 |
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| th0br0 | I mean, a whole message queue system just for commits? | 22:26 |
| th0br0 | Or what else is it supposed to run? | 22:26 |
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| lbt | entire productisation workflow for meego devices... nothing important | 22:26 |
| th0br0 | ;P "productisation workflow"? | 22:27 |
| TSCHAK2_ | hah | 22:27 |
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| * TSCHAK2_ is thumbing through old moblin code for the different muter panels, and wonders how long this stuff will be relevant | 22:28 | |
| TSCHAK2_ | mutter | 22:28 |
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| pupnik | poll: which single person, besides yourself, would you nominate as the one who has the best idea of what 'meego' (moblin+maemo) should become? | 22:37 |
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| * Stskeeps votes for valhalla | 22:39 | |
| CosmoHill | what you voting on? | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | what pupnik said | 22:41 |
| th0br0 | pupnik: I don't think anyone except for -- *possibly* (hell, do we know whether they know?) -- the TSG... | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | well, best idea being where they want to take us :P | 22:44 |
| lbt | define "best" ... most likely to match end-result? closest to ones personal ideals? | 22:45 |
| * Stskeeps is trying to see if he can find any analysis on moblin from a contributor/'community' pov and doesn't have much luck | 22:46 | |
| Stskeeps | you'd think flames would be possible to find.. | 22:46 |
| th0br0 | I don't think there was much community with moblin | 22:47 |
| bfree | did Moblin have any contributor/community? I always got the impression it was basically an internal Intel project (which drew from upstreams which aren't of course) | 22:47 |
| lbt | sure there was th0br0, they camped outside the wall.... | 22:47 |
| th0br0 | ^^ ok | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | admittedly, i don't know much about how things were | 22:47 |
| th0br0 | me neither. | 22:47 |
| * pupnik votes for Stskeeps | 22:49 | |
| * lbt wonders what you'd hear on a drinking night at canonical | 22:49 | |
| pupnik | hehe | 22:49 |
| TSCHAK2_ | i've been able to install moblin pieces to get a complete UX on the most recent ubuntu | 22:49 |
| th0br0 | true lbt | 22:49 |
| TSCHAK2_ | and the source code for them is upstream, so | 22:49 |
| TSCHAK2_ | *shrug* | 22:49 |
| pupnik | could you screencast some of that to show what you think is useful/important, TSCHAK2_ ? | 22:50 |
| pupnik | i met a guy here who is now doing some "work for meego" and he was remarkably empty of opinions or passion to do anything in particular | 22:51 |
| TSCHAK2_ | if i wasn't so swamped, i would | 22:51 |
| TSCHAK2_ | I'm wrangling my own multi-million line code project atm | 22:51 |
| TSCHAK2_ | trying to look at moblin as a base to re-engineer major parts of it | 22:52 |
| TSCHAK2_ | erm meego | 22:52 |
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| Stskeeps | pupnik: well, sometimes open source work can also be 'just paying the bills' | 22:52 |
| TSCHAK2_ | right now, meego is being figured out | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | not everyone can be as passionate as crazy as some of us here - the thing is if they block people being passionate or interested in cooperating and contributing | 22:54 |
| TSCHAK2_ | by everybody involved | 22:54 |
| TSCHAK2_ | it is one thing for some execs to say, "let's merge our teams" | 22:54 |
| TSCHAK2_ | across company boundaries, and say that a community should be in there too | 22:55 |
| TSCHAK2_ | quite another to pull it off. | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | i don't think it's possible to work together across company boundaries without working with best open practices . | 22:55 |
| TSCHAK2_ | it isn't possible... | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | even if there's no outsider community involved | 22:55 |
| TSCHAK2_ | but it is obvious there are huge chunks of people | 22:56 |
| TSCHAK2_ | on Nokia's side | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | it's a 'design pattern' as such | 22:56 |
| TSCHAK2_ | and Intel's side | 22:56 |
| TSCHAK2_ | who .. um... aren't quite getting it yet. | 22:56 |
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| lcuk | which side are you on TSCHAK2_ | 22:56 |
| TSCHAK2_ | i'd rather there NOT BE sides | 22:56 |
| TSCHAK2_ | we're all supposed to be on the same team | 22:57 |
| TSCHAK2_ | here's the funny thing | 22:58 |
| TSCHAK2_ | i've already pretty much decoded the GTK+ toolkit stuff that moblin and the current meego UX are using now | 22:58 |
| TSCHAK2_ | to provide the current user experience | 22:59 |
| TSCHAK2_ | the question that forms in my mind, is how long this is going to be relevant | 22:59 |
| pupnik | nice to see your thoughts | 22:59 |
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| TSCHAK2_ | are we going to look up one day, to find mutter replaced with something that's written in Qt? | 22:59 |
| pupnik | is it possible for X86 to become competitive - even theoretically - on handhelds? | 23:00 |
| TSCHAK2_ | same with the various tabs that mutter loads? | 23:00 |
| pupnik | ah different question nm | 23:00 |
| lcuk | TSCHAK2_, you can ask the same about any tool and current toolkit vogue of the decade? | 23:00 |
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| TSCHAK2_ | lcuk: very true | 23:00 |
| TSCHAK2_ | we just happen to be in an odd transition point | 23:00 |
| TSCHAK2_ | and i'm a little confused on the footing | 23:01 |
| TSCHAK2_ | i do know that the gtk+/clutter stuff will at least be packaged | 23:01 |
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| lcuk | so its not that big a transition | 23:01 |
| TSCHAK2_ | I do admit that writing this stuff in Qt will be significantly easier (for those of us used to C++) | 23:01 |
| TSCHAK2_ | and the declarative stuff is interesting | 23:02 |
| th0br0 | Depends on how used you are to Qt... | 23:02 |
| TSCHAK2_ | yeah | 23:02 |
| TSCHAK2_ | of all the C++ toolkits, I can stand Qt | 23:02 |
| TSCHAK2_ | (the irony is LinuxMCE is written in STL.. *bash-head-with-brick*) | 23:02 |
| TSCHAK2_ | :P | 23:02 |
| th0br0 | well, I'm not used to Qt at all and I ... don't know. | 23:03 |
| TSCHAK2_ | have any of you had to use the STL compatibility layer in Qt? | 23:03 |
| TSCHAK2_ | not pretty | 23:03 |
| TSCHAK2_ | hahahaha | 23:03 |
| TSCHAK2_ | (Qt/Nokia employees excluded from said question) :P | 23:03 |
| lcuk | well if the ui layer is totally distinct from the data or rules layers - what does it matter? | 23:04 |
| TSCHAK2_ | of course, none of that is as bad, as trying to use GTK+ from inside C++ code _WITHOUT_ gtkmm :P | 23:04 |
| th0br0 | :P | 23:04 |
| lcuk | or do the rules need to be pristine qt | 23:04 |
| * CosmoHill is round his friends :D | 23:05 | |
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| TSCHAK2_ | lcuk: well the good thing is, in our case, the UI is a totally separate program from the rest of the system, but it DOES have a DCE thread (because it IS a DCE device sending/receiving messages) | 23:05 |
| TSCHAK2_ | so i have to use the STL compatibility layer to massage stuff, if i write the new orbiter in Qt | 23:06 |
| lcuk | forgive me for being thick, but doesnt qt have its own orbiter? | 23:06 |
| TSCHAK2_ | Qt tries to transparently cast certain things, and i've seen it occasionally get things wrong...makes for interesting compiler errors | 23:07 |
| lcuk | or is this just a namespace collision | 23:07 |
| TSCHAK2_ | lcuk: by orbiter, I mean, our UI... and no.. any reference to the DCE parts occurs in its own namespace... i.e. DCE::Orbiter | 23:07 |
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| pupnik | i'd like to see some qt stuff on n900 maemo at least but i can't even install any as a user | 23:18 |
| TSCHAK2_ | the widgets demo works | 23:19 |
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| lcuk | TSCHAK2_, i'd be surprised if qt DIDNT have a working widget demo | 23:29 |
| lcuk | theres been one for a while: | 23:29 |
| lcuk | http://qt.nokia.com/developer/embedded-widget-demos | 23:29 |
| lcuk | wolfenqt looks cute | 23:30 |
| lcuk | that first one looks like it will work on the n810 | 23:31 |
| lbt | TSCHAK2_: it'll go Qt | 23:31 |
| TSCHAK2_ | lbt, I figured.. question is when. | 23:31 |
| lbt | eventually | 23:31 |
| * TSCHAK2_ chuckles | 23:31 | |
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| TSCHAK2_ | yeah.. like.. eventually GNOME 2.0 was released | 23:32 |
| * TSCHAK2_ remembers the first GNOME 2.0 announcement, September 1998... Ready Summer 1999! | 23:32 | |
| lbt | the Qt stuff has a massive amount of resource being poured into it to make a sexy and compelling touch interface | 23:32 |
| TSCHAK2_ | *nod* | 23:32 |
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| lcuk | serious question, how workable could be made qt from c | 23:38 |
| TSCHAK2_ | yikes | 23:38 |
| lcuk | well its silly in a way i know | 23:38 |
| TSCHAK2_ | well i mean | 23:39 |
| TSCHAK2_ | now i'm curious | 23:39 |
| TSCHAK2_ | damn you :P :) | 23:39 |
| TSCHAK2_ | i'm going to have to find that out | 23:39 |
| * TSCHAK2_ puts that on the pile of stuff to discover | 23:39 | |
| lcuk | i know c++ has all these fancy pants stuff | 23:39 |
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| TSCHAK2_ | full disclosure: I can't stand C++. I put up with it because so many others do. | 23:40 |
| lcuk | but at the end of the day its a tree of objects and some methods | 23:40 |
| * TSCHAK2_ comes from the Smalltalk/Ruby/Objective-C camp of OO | 23:40 | |
| * TSCHAK2_ resists..the..urge..to..reply... | 23:40 | |
| lcuk | i only ask this because a few days ago i wrote a small pyqt app | 23:40 |
| th0br0 | byez. ttyl | 23:40 |
| lcuk | and in converting it to a native c++ implementaiton | 23:40 |
| lcuk | the compiler didnt know the qt libraries | 23:41 |
| lcuk | so i had to write a couple of stock dummies | 23:41 |
| lcuk | http://pastebin.com/vuKMx9zc | 23:41 |
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| lcuk | the working set of the qt in use in that app | 23:41 |
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| lcuk | and i dunno where the requirement for c++ comes from and whether a set of reverse bindings would be feasible | 23:43 |
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| * lbt leaves this sick and twisted place | 23:52 | |
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| Stskeeps | qt in C got you? ;) | 23:53 |
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| lcuk | no Stskeeps was just a ponderment - its easier in py | 23:55 |
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