IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Saturday, 2014-01-11

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sixwheeledbeastade's timezone update impact list http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9235001:51
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DocScrutinizer05great work, alas on a completely fsckdup item. I never got the rationale to not offer the much easier timezones and instead force people to pick closest town to their own position which will get pretty annoying when you're not familiar witg geography of the country you're just in04:28
DocScrutinizer05that's of course not ade's fault but a general unix7linux idiocy04:29
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sixwheeledbeastI would suggest that people may know the closest large town/city but not the timezone they are in. It therefore makes sense to use approximate location over timezone. Also I would assume that GPS could locate your position and change timezones as required.10:24
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_ade_freemangordon: would you see it as an issue to also modifify the (flat file) database in libcityinfo0-0 if we want to update the timezones?11:57
_ade_freemangordon: and how do you get from the glibc bz2 file to the actual deb file?11:58
_ade_freemangordon: the timezone files are generated during the build of the deb file it looks11:58
freemangordon_ade_: (re deb) - dpkg-buildpackage should do the job, iirc you need to have the kernel sources installed11:58
freemangordonmerlin1991: ping, see ^^^11:58
freemangordon_ade_: what kind of database is that?11:59
_ade_just an ascii file11:59
freemangordondo we have the sources?11:59
freemangordon(debian packaging, etc)12:00
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_ade_An ASCII file is no issue :) libcityinfo itself is closed iirc12:00
freemangordonhmm, where is that db? /usr/share/clock/wdb ?12:01
_ade_yep12:01
freemangordonhmm, 8164 Mar 31  2010 /usr/lib/libcityinfo0.so.0.0.012:01
freemangordonI guess I'll have to RE that12:01
freemangordonit shouldn't be that hard12:01
_ade_not really needed for this12:02
freemangordonI know, but while we're on it12:02
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freemangordonyep, 9k x86 binary, I need 1-2 days12:03
_ade_If would rather see a RE for custom ringtones :)12:03
freemangordon_ade_: hehe12:03
freemangordonI know, but libhildonblabla lib is a huge one12:04
freemangordonnot impossible though12:04
freemangordonbut there are really higher priority issues IMO12:04
freemangordon_ade_: why don;t you fire up IDA and RE it?12:04
freemangordonI'll help you with whatever needed12:05
_ade_I thought it wasn't, but back then you gave priority over the certificate stuff.12:05
freemangordonI still think certificate stuff had higher priority :)12:06
_ade_I am afraid you are one of the few how is capable of the RE stuff sadly12:06
freemangordon_ade_: ever tried it? it is not a rocket science12:07
freemangordonnot that it is easy, but not impossible12:07
freemangordonand hexrays is doing GREAT job to make it easier12:07
_ade_How do you want to continue with the tz stuff? I can try to create a deb for now.12:08
freemangordonthat one will be great12:08
freemangordonyou mean debian source, right?12:08
_ade_Yes, but to see if it is correct, I would like to create a deb12:09
freemangordon_ade_: sure, but I'll need the source package, so I will put REed libcityinfo there12:09
_ade_Oh, you mean libcityinfo?12:10
freemangordonyep12:10
freemangordonwhat else?12:10
freemangordonlibc6?12:10
_ade_I was talking glibc, as the tz files are in there12:11
freemangordon_ade_: oh, yeah, sorry :). so, I will need a .patch changing whatever needed in libc6 source code.12:11
freemangordon_ade_: I gtg in 5 minutes, will pester merlin1991 as he was the last to build glibc, just a couple of days ago12:12
_ade_And an can only tell that to change if I can create a correct deb12:12
_ade_okay, later..12:12
freemangordon_ade_: iirc you only need the kernal sources installd12:13
_ade_thanks12:13
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freemangordonor rather - kernel headers12:13
freemangordonbye for now, bbl12:13
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_ade_ping sixwheeledbeast12:18
sixwheeledbeast_ade_: pong12:19
_ade_have you been using/testing EasyList lately?12:20
sixwheeledbeastI have it installed with a list but I can't say I have used it in anger.12:20
sixwheeledbeastwhy?12:20
_ade_sixwheeldbeast: I rewrote the sync part, I was wondering if someone was interested in that. You will need to have a webservices running on a pc/server for that so you can sync both ways12:22
sixwheeledbeastI'll have a look, doesn't it use william's server somehow?12:24
_ade_no, not anymore. That was too limited for me (only a special synclist etc).12:25
_ade_Well, maybe I will post an update om TMO some time in the future about that12:26
sixwheeledbeastcool, that put me off using it TBH. I use Qalender for my notes now, but I will certainly test this application for you. Have you requested to be a maintainer of the package?12:27
_ade_sixwheeledbeast: no. But he gave up maintaining it a long time ago. So I could ask him.12:28
sixwheeledbeastIf no response from him use the package interface to request to be maintainer and techstaff can approve. This goes for all packages to wish to fix ;)12:31
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_ade_sixwheeledbeast: this one will do :)12:32
sixwheeledbeast:P12:33
sixwheeledbeastTBH you may as well push your latest version to -devel. you can do that without being a maintainer IIRC. All the versions in extras, testing and devel are the same so it will not make any difference.12:41
sixwheeledbeasthttp://maemo.org/packages/view/easylist/12:41
sixwheeledbeastlast update was Nov 2011 as you say.12:41
_ade_sixwheeledbeast: yes, you can always push a version to extras-devel, regardless ownership. Willem has explicitly stated he is no longer maintaining it (same goes for the N9 version)12:43
sixwheeledbeastOk well if you wish, request to be a maintainer and it will get sorted. I can see you have contributed patches in the current versions.12:45
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freemangordonarcean: ping16:09
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: ((may know the closest large town/city)) no, I often don't. Particularly I dunno which of several chinese or whatever towns is closest to my own town/village that I often can't even spell the name16:20
DocScrutinizer05GPS would be the most reasonable way to implement that16:21
sixwheeledbeastYou wouldn't have to speel you have a list :)16:21
DocScrutinizer05I can't see particular rationale why I have to select Germany/Berlin when I'm ~1000km away, in Munich16:21
sixwheeledbeasts/speel/spell/16:21
infobotsixwheeledbeast meant: You wouldn't have to spell you have a list :)16:21
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I think this approach is based on assumtions about knowledge in users that is not generally granted16:22
DocScrutinizer05the most sane approach though would be to enter the time as read from a local clock and the UI filters out all settings/towns that would not result in this time to be your device system time16:24
DocScrutinizer05this way I easily "know" about my local TZ16:25
sixwheeledbeastWell I live 200miles away from our capital city but I know what it is. Timezones are closely linked to capital city's for most places16:26
DocScrutinizer05even when I got NFC about the name of the village i'm in, least about near big towns16:26
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: heck, you're talking about YOUR capital16:27
DocScrutinizer05e.g. in australia I wouldn't even know what IS the capital16:27
DocScrutinizer05this whole city approach is fubar by design16:28
sixwheeledbeastSurely you know the capital city of the country you travel too.16:28
DocScrutinizer05aha, why do you think so?16:28
sixwheeledbeastFWIW Australia is Canberra16:29
DocScrutinizer05do you think in china it makes any difference for TZ when I know it's called Beijing16:29
DocScrutinizer05same for australia16:29
DocScrutinizer05when capital was always the only relevant choice for TZ setting, then you can reduce that to country without even naming the capital16:30
sixwheeledbeastWell you normally fly into an airport in a big city with it's name on it16:30
DocScrutinizer05yeah, and more often than not this airport is not in TZ list16:31
DocScrutinizer05airports rarely are *in* big cities16:31
DocScrutinizer05and even when they are named according to next big city maybe 100km away, that big city also rarely ever shows up in TZ list16:32
sixwheeledbeastWell "associated" to big cities, there's no room in the city for a runway16:32
DocScrutinizer05the concept is fubar, unless you use the 2enter local current time" approach16:33
DocScrutinizer05I can find a clock almost everywhere16:33
DocScrutinizer05and usually it's correct time it shows16:33
DocScrutinizer05so when I enter the time of novosibirsk it probably will filter out moscow from the towns to select from16:34
DocScrutinizer05no need to know about capital, nor about next big city that is more relevant for TZ than that capital16:35
DocScrutinizer05odds are that only one russion town with correct TZ stays after filtering16:36
DocScrutinizer05Russian*16:36
DocScrutinizer05and if there are two, then odds are it doesn't matter which of them I pick, since they are same TZ, incl DST and all, anyway16:36
sixwheeledbeastLook at the US, if you fly over there an input the state you are located at you will get the correct timezone.16:37
DocScrutinizer05I more than once found myself trying "let's try this one. Meh, 1h+ off. OK this one then. Meh, 1h-. Maybe this..."16:38
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: I don't want to hear about a selected usecase where it works16:39
DocScrutinizer05I say the approach is braindamaged by design16:39
DocScrutinizer05even when it sometimes "works"16:39
sixwheeledbeastAustralia is the same too, I don't have an issue with it TBH16:40
DocScrutinizer05I'm not interested in (learning about) next city listed in TZ list, when I already have suffient easily acquired data (local time) that perfectly determines the TZ I need to set in my device16:41
DocScrutinizer05it's a approach for a worlclock, but not for setting your TZ16:42
FIQhi16:43
DocScrutinizer05I know Rster lives in Sydney, so I try to find Sydney (or a town close to it, annoying enough) in my KDE clock applet to know gis local time16:43
FIQsince latest CSSU update, I've had issues with the battery indicator16:43
sixwheeledbeastWell there kinda linked16:44
DocScrutinizer05for setting TZ of my mobile phone I prefer to enter the local time of that bush airport I landed and that's all i need to do16:44
FIQit's "good enough", but it's having trouble noticing low battery correctly16:44
sixwheeledbeastFIQ: CSSU-T update?16:44
FIQthumb16:44
FIQsec16:44
FIQTmaemo9.116:44
FIQfrom 8.316:45
FIQit started showing %, but this data is no use since it's just a number representation of the battery icon and not exact16:45
FIQbut that's not the issue (other than that this is redundant)16:45
FIQthe issue is that it goes to sudden "Battery dead, charge battery!" warning from green16:46
FIQand occasionally the icon goes *backwards* from red back to lowest green16:46
DocScrutinizer05hehe16:47
FIQI've seen the latter only once before this CSSU update, but this update has given the indicator more issues16:47
sixwheeledbeastKinetic charging :P16:47
DocScrutinizer05i finally have to edit the meanwhile incorrect phrase "CSSU is recommended for every user"16:48
FIQPerhaps these issues are caused by me never charging on device? and thus it is having trouble calibrating the displaying?16:48
FIQAt least there was such need for the non-core (non CSSU) version of "more detailed info"16:49
FIQthat you had to use device for charging for it to work correctly16:49
sixwheeledbeastthe battery indicator has never been truly accurate, I have experienced this "backwards" on all flavours16:51
FIQoh and DocScrutinizer05, fyi before you draw any conclusions - there's nothing wrong with the batteries I carry right now, no damage, no weird issues (apart from since last CSSU), no sparks, or any similar issues16:51
FIQsixwheeledbeast: mkay, well I never did until now strangely16:51
FIQ(apart from once, as said, several months ago)16:52
DocScrutinizer05FIQ: I'm sure your battery is not the culprit16:57
FIQalso16:58
FIQ[15:48:03] <DocScrutinizer05> i finally have to edit the meanwhile incorrect phrase "CSSU is recommended for every user"16:58
FIQkeep in mind, I do use the T branch :p16:58
FIQpretty sure CSSU-stable is intended to be... well, stable16:59
FIQand recommended16:59
FIQno?16:59
FIQwhile testing which I use is expected to have issues16:59
FIQwhich needs to be taken care of before even considering moving these to stable16:59
DocScrutinizer05battery applet is hard to het right, seen a lot of tuning over the last decade (yes the concepts origin even in pre-symbian times) and recent "improvements" done to it always planned to overcome one annoyince and missed about the linked other 5 annoyances the fix would introduce16:59
DocScrutinizer05the problem is different users have different expectations regarding battery meter17:02
DocScrutinizer05what you blame as a bug (phantom charging going from red to green) is correct representation of what actually happens for other users17:03
DocScrutinizer05it's a question to *define* what that meter actually *means*, to start with17:04
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DocScrutinizer05is it voltage? remaining energy (Watt-hours)? remaining ampere-hours? remaining operation time at average power consumption? on current consumption? on max consumption?17:05
DocScrutinizer05is it average of last 5 min? of last 30s?17:06
DocScrutinizer05is it relative to a new battery, or to the status of this particular battery?17:06
DocScrutinizer05is it linear or logarithmic?17:06
DocScrutinizer05or even with an offset?17:07
DocScrutinizer05to give an additional hour of operation time when meter reaches ZERO17:07
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DocScrutinizer05shall it make assumptions of (future) usage?17:08
DocScrutinizer05based on what? current cell coverage/signal, or worst case signal?17:08
DocScrutinizer052G or 3G17:09
DocScrutinizer05how much data traffic?17:09
FIQif you're going to list every single expectation, you'll be here for a year ;)17:09
DocScrutinizer05ask 100 users and you get 350 notions17:09
DocScrutinizer05yep, exactly17:09
sixwheeledbeast:nod: to all of the above.17:11
DocScrutinizer05best approach was a pretty comprehensive rich battery diagnostics page, listing all relevant parameters like e.g. bq2k-detail2 does, and make user pick the value she wants to get displayed in applet gauge bar17:12
DocScrutinizer05even allow to enter simple mathematical equations in a shell or C syntax to calculate what to display on apllet17:13
DocScrutinizer05my dream OS17:14
DocScrutinizer05alas common take on such thing is "waaay too complex for average joe"17:14
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