IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Monday, 2013-10-28

« Sunday, 2013-10-27 Index Tuesday, 2013-10-29 »
freemangordonPali: going to edit that wiki page00:19
Paliok00:19
freemangordonPali: done, I added a note to shutdown-reboot-patch.diff ,"only the part that fixes pm.c is applicable, as USB hostmode is disabled "00:28
Paliok00:28
sixwheeledbeastpowertop is in non-free due to only having a binary00:35
freemangordonsixwheeledbeast: yep, but there are rumors that it is GPLed ;)00:36
sixwheeledbeasthttp://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/powertop/00:45
freemangordonsixwheeledbeast: that's Intel's powertop00:46
sixwheeledbeastmmm00:48
*** Pali has quit IRC00:56
*** Martix has quit IRC01:14
*** kolp has quit IRC01:23
sixwheeledbeastso there are more than one version of powertop?01:24
*** xes has quit IRC01:28
*** BCMM has quit IRC01:51
*** okias has joined #maemo-ssu02:14
*** jonwil has joined #maemo-ssu03:13
*** dos1 has quit IRC03:14
*** okias has quit IRC03:35
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo-ssu03:41
*** nox- has quit IRC03:41
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC03:57
*** amiconn has quit IRC05:58
*** amiconn_ has joined #maemo-ssu05:58
*** amiconn_ is now known as amiconn05:58
*** M13 has joined #maemo-ssu06:38
*** M13 has quit IRC08:42
freemangordonsixwheeledbeast: yes. Intel's powertop doesn't help much on ARM, at least that was the case the last time I've checked it09:07
DocScrutinizer05well, since ARM is not an intel product, that's not really surprising09:09
freemangordonsure09:09
DocScrutinizer05I also start frowning when I hear "Lennart's PA is better than Nokia's PA"09:20
DocScrutinizer05Nokia for sure didn't patch PA for NIH reasons09:20
freemangordonafaik nokia's patches were meant to be upstreamed09:21
DocScrutinizer05there been quite a number of problems with PA (no surprise after all, eh?) and Nokia applied patches to fix those issues09:21
DocScrutinizer05At OM we discarded PA all together since it didn't work at all09:23
*** l4m3rx has quit IRC09:24
DocScrutinizer05Nokia been already more brainwashed by the Lennart&RH propaganda and obviously thought PA is a mandatory component to provide functions that allegedly were not available in ALSA09:24
DocScrutinizer05I wish they were more brave and had refused to include PA at all09:25
DocScrutinizer05if they had invested same amount of bugfixing and coding extensions to ALSA that they did to PA, they had ended with a better audio system09:26
sixwheeledbeastfreemangordon: DocScrutinizer05: Yes, but there are armel builds in the link from debian and the full source.09:31
DocScrutinizer05so what? the design still is for intel processor09:35
DocScrutinizer05honestly, compare powertop output/interface of your PC's (intel) powertop with that of N90009:37
DocScrutinizer05you won't find much they have in common09:37
DocScrutinizer05well, ok, a cerain similarity is there, but still the ARM CPU/SoC is pretty different to a PC ISA architecture09:39
DocScrutinizer05iirc FatPhil said he's about to rewrite a ARM powertop in a scripting language, like perl or whatever09:40
jonwilWould using ALSA have allowed Nokia to use all their proprietary audio algorithms and still have been able to keep them closed source?09:41
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: BTW, the problem we have with powertop and KP seems to be because a bug in powertop - it tries to map CPU c-states to frequencies, which is plain wrong IMO09:43
*** l4m3rx has joined #maemo-ssu09:43
sixwheeledbeastthey have a build for most architectures which seems stupid if they don't work.09:44
jonwilyou have to remember that a lot of what Nokia did in the audio system for Fremantle was connected to the need to use these algorithms and the desire to keep things closed09:44
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I don;t see how's c-state could be related to cpu freq09:46
freemangordon*hore09:46
freemangordon*how09:46
freemangordon:(09:46
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: same as with PA09:50
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: what makes you think it maps freq to C state?09:51
DocScrutinizer05the fact that Cstate table and fre-table share same rows n printout doesn't mean they are related or linked in any direct way09:53
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: exactly09:53
DocScrutinizer05so what?09:54
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: i am looking at what powertop does09:54
DocScrutinizer05powertop doesn't try to map anytjhing there - you do09:54
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: run powertop and see the columns in the first table it prints09:54
DocScrutinizer05guess what I did 3 min ago09:55
freemangordonsee http://pastebin.com/5Zwj4Naw09:55
DocScrutinizer05the fact that Cstate table and fre-table share same rows n printout doesn't mean they are related or linked in any direct way09:55
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: sure, that is what I  am sayng09:55
DocScrutinizer05no, that's exactly what you're denying09:56
DocScrutinizer05you're assuming the opposite09:56
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: could be my english, but that is what I tried to say :)09:56
DocScrutinizer05you're implying that powertop somehow maps them internally, since it displays them in same section of prntout09:56
DocScrutinizer05that's no bug in powertop, that's at best a cosmetic flaw09:57
DocScrutinizer05in printout formatting09:57
DocScrutinizer05sorry, have to pause - vision impairing issue09:57
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it uses the same for() loop variable to print c-states and frequensies09:57
DocScrutinizer05can't read anymore09:57
* freemangordon is out too09:58
DocScrutinizer05so what? for (n=1; n<10; n++)  printf("linenumber %d | cstate %d | freq %d", n, cs[n], f[n]);  nothing wrong with that10:01
DocScrutinizer05doesn't mean cn[] and f[] are linked/entangled in any way10:02
DocScrutinizer05tbh I dont see any other obvious and straight way to implement this10:12
DocScrutinizer05since the running var is "linenumber" and not anything relevant for the properties of Cstate or CPUfreq10:13
DocScrutinizer05the only "bug" I can see is: make 3rd "|" a "|||"10:14
DocScrutinizer05and probably the true "bug" in powertop with KP is that powertop isn't prepared to have an array with >4 items for CPU-freq[], ot maybe the parser for sysfs node content is not prepared to parse the output provided by KP10:18
DocScrutinizer05this is however *completely* unrelated to C-states I'd think10:20
*** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo-ssu10:20
DocScrutinizer05C-states are not related to CPUfreq, neither in real life nor in powertop, they just happen to get printed in neighbourhood of the CPU-freq table10:21
DocScrutinizer05and tbh I'm not all sure it's any bug in powertop (iirc powertop actually prints all the available freq but their value is "NAN" for the 'new' ones), it might as well be a bug in sysnode format of powerkernel which maybe prints the new freq not in a way that they are supposed to and expected by powertop10:24
DocScrutinizer05arbitrary made-up(!) example: when sysnode now has content like " freq:2:500:600 values:2:20:80" and powertop changes that to  " freq:3:500:600:800 values:2:20:70:10" then it would clearly be KP to blame since the second format is incorrect, it doesn't set correct number of fields for "values" (2 instead of a correct 3)10:30
DocScrutinizer05s/powertop/KP/10:30
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: arbitrary made-up(!) example: when sysnode now has content like " freq:2:500:600 values:2:20:80" and KP changes that to  " freq:3:500:600:800 values:2:20:70:10" then it would clearly be KP to blame since the second format is incorrect, it doesn't set corr...10:30
*** Pali has joined #maemo-ssu10:31
FatPhilOpen source powertop replacement: http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop10:53
FatPhilReverse engineered from scratch using "strace" and nothing else.10:53
FatPhilDoesn't do everything the nokia one does, but it should be easy to extend10:54
FatPhilI split the C-states and frequency tables, there was no need to combine them into one tale.10:56
FatPhilAlso more friendly for the output on 8-core systems10:56
*** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC11:00
*** kolp has joined #maemo-ssu11:08
Palifreemangordon: kcssu wiki page updated11:29
*** Martix has joined #maemo-ssu11:31
*** LauRoman has quit IRC12:03
*** M13 has joined #maemo-ssu12:07
DocScrutinizer05FatPhil: are there tabs in http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt ?  formating/indenting looks odd at least in my browser12:26
Sicelolooks good in IE :p12:28
DocScrutinizer05look at12:29
DocScrutinizer05    sub xtime {12:29
DocScrutinizer05open(S, "</proc/stat");12:29
DocScrutinizer05negative indentation12:30
Siceloalso looks fine12:30
DocScrutinizer05yeah, in FF it looks fine, in konqueror not - I assume that's due to my different tab width12:31
Siceloand, btw, just a work computer. i run linux on my personal one ;)12:31
DocScrutinizer05that's why I asked if there are tabs in there12:31
DocScrutinizer05I strongly suggest to not use tabs at all in sourcecode12:32
DocScrutinizer05http://privatepaste.com/f3559dd1ea12:37
PaliDocScrutinizer05: why not use tabs?12:41
PaliI suggest to use tabs12:41
Palibecause your editor and you can see TABS (which are use for indentation) and LOT OF SPACES (used where are spaces really needed)12:41
DocScrutinizer05because tabs are not defined12:41
Palidefined?12:42
*** BCMM has joined #maemo-ssu12:42
Palithey are in ASCII table12:42
DocScrutinizer05actually tabstops are not defined globally12:42
Palithey are difined12:42
Paliwhat is tabstops?12:43
DocScrutinizer05yeah, see?12:43
DocScrutinizer05what is tab?12:43
DocScrutinizer05tell me what tab does12:43
kerio'\t', duh12:43
Palitab is 9th char in ascii table12:44
DocScrutinizer05every smart editor can user a 3 or 4 or 6 or 8 spaces as representation of a tab in text12:44
DocScrutinizer05Pali: I didn't ask which cahr in ascii table is called "tab", I asked what you think it DOES12:45
Palibut this representation is not bijektion12:45
jon_yI think there is also vertical tab12:45
kerioi think his idea is to use tab to indent and then space to align12:45
DocScrutinizer05sorry?12:45
keriobut that never works in practice, really12:46
jon_yewww, mixed12:46
jon_yI just use space, everywhere all the time :)12:46
DocScrutinizer05exactly12:46
DocScrutinizer05only sane way12:46
DocScrutinizer05actually your editor does that for you12:46
jon_yI mean, you can't escape using spaces12:47
jon_yso don't use tabs12:47
DocScrutinizer05by inserting 4 or 8 spaces for each time you press tab key12:47
jon_yunless you are in python12:47
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: assuming your editor isn't retarded :)12:47
DocScrutinizer05why would I use a retarded editor?12:47
Paliif you get some file (source code) you do not know 1) how many spaces are used for one indentation and also 2) you do not know if this N spaces are indentation or not12:48
jon_ymore like vi settings that need to be fixed12:48
DocScrutinizer05Pali: sorry?12:48
keriojon_y: no, you *always* use spaces in python12:48
kerioor guido will haunt you at night12:49
jon_yI thought python uses tabs?12:49
kerioewww12:49
keriothat would be horrible12:49
Palithat mapping is some kind of homomorphism12:49
jon_yI don't normally do python though12:49
kerioit supports them for backwards compatibility12:49
jon_yyes, tab is syntax in python12:49
DocScrutinizer05Pali: seems you are describing exactly what I'm facing with that zzztop source, where the tab stop definition (number of spaces equaling one tab) is not in line with what I use locally12:49
kerioand it parses them *always* as 8 spaces12:49
DocScrutinizer05Pali: that's why you shouldn't use tabs ever12:49
keriotab is not syntax in python12:50
kerioindentation is syntax12:50
kerioand it's preferrable to indent with 4 spaces12:50
keriofollowing PEP812:50
jon_yok, so you are screwed if your editor fixes it to 4 spaces?12:50
PaliDocScrutinizer05: if you always use TABS you can configure editor to show TABs to number of spaces you want12:50
jon_yor even 2 spaces12:50
kerioif you only use tabs to indent, no12:50
keriobut **use spaces**12:50
Paliand if TABs are used only for indentation, it does not matter to number of spaces12:50
DocScrutinizer05Pali: see zzztop12:51
Paliand TABs are used only for indenatation...12:51
DocScrutinizer05it using 4 spaces, one tab, one tab + 4 spaces, 2 tabs12:51
PaliDocScrutinizer05: in zzztop is another problem: mixing TABS and SPACES12:51
Paliand you cannot mix it, becuase it really cause problems...12:52
DocScrutinizer05my tab is set to 3 chars tabstop12:52
Palibut if you always use *only* TABS for indentation, it does not matter how many chars have tabstop12:52
DocScrutinizer05since with the usual 8, most sources fall off right side of my screen12:53
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo-ssu12:53
DocScrutinizer05Pali: yes, that's correct12:53
Pali:-)12:53
Paliproblem with spaces is that 1) somebody want to use other chars for tabstop and 2) you do not know if N spaces is indention or something other (where N spaces are really needed and it is not indentation)12:54
Paliwhen using TABs you can set chars for tabstop as you want and nothing will break12:55
DocScrutinizer05hmm, citation needed. Couldn't think of such case12:55
Paliof what?12:55
DocScrutinizer05spaces really needed12:55
Paliaesthetic comments (4TABS for indentation + 5 spaces)12:56
Palior using HERE DOCUMENT in bash12:56
Pali(also in perl __DATA__ section)12:57
DocScrutinizer05but basicaly we agree, FatPhil should set his tabstop/tabwidth to 4 and use only tabs instead of a mixed scheme that indents by 4 using spaces and 8-tab mixed12:57
Palior multiline string definitions in more programming languages where in string are lot of spaces12:57
Paliand specially at begining of line12:57
Paliin all these cases editor *must* fully know formal language grammer to know that 8 spaces of begining of line are really spaces (because this is multiline string) and not indentaion12:58
DocScrutinizer05ok, with const definitions of strings or whatever, you might run into trouble when your editor treats 4 spaces as if it were one tab12:59
DocScrutinizer05in very rare cases12:59
Pali__DATA__ in perl is not rare12:59
Paliand here document in bash too!12:59
DocScrutinizer05well, but editor messing with those in a way you don't like is highly unlikely13:00
DocScrutinizer05unless you need a real TAB there and your editor converts it into spaces13:00
Palievery editor which converting tabs and spaces *always* messed all perl or bash code which I edited13:01
Pali(code with here document)13:01
DocScrutinizer05well, when you're editing a source done by another editor and you tell your editor to *convert* it to a tab-only or space-only format, then sure you always run into trouble13:02
DocScrutinizer05but when I write a here-document and I use 8 space at start of line, then how's the editor going to interfere with that?13:03
PaliDocScrutinizer05: look at here document bash syntax or perl __data__ section13:03
DocScrutinizer05why?13:03
DocScrutinizer05I know what's a here-document13:03
Paliok13:04
Paliso problem is that editor internally think that 8 spaces are indentation13:04
DocScrutinizer05the editor doesn't think anything13:04
DocScrutinizer05the editor inserts 8 spaces when you hit tab key13:04
DocScrutinizer05that's it13:04
Palisome even more evil editors doing that it convert TABs to 8 spaces when editing that part13:05
DocScrutinizer05and when you hit backspace on end of a sequence of 8 spaces, then it deletes 8 instead of 1 space13:05
Paliso if you have code with here document where is TAB and you will start editing that line, some editors automatically convert all TABs on that line to spaces13:05
Pali[12:05:42] <DocScrutinizer05> and when you hit backspace on end of a sequence of 8 spaces, then it deletes 8 instead of 1 space >>> this is another problem13:06
PaliI want to remove only one space...13:06
DocScrutinizer05well, that is what I said above, when you're telling your editor to *convert* then yes, you will possibly run into trouble13:06
PaliI saw more editors which have this default behaviour13:06
Paliand I'm fed up that this is default on more systems editor (e.g. kde kate)13:07
DocScrutinizer05Pali: depending on your editor you then either use a special key macro to delete only one space instead of 8, or you delete 8 char pseudo-tab, then insert 7 space instead13:07
Paliand kde kate has other stupid default behavious: when you press TAB it insert 4 spaces. But when there are 8 spaces it replace it by \t char13:08
DocScrutinizer05now THAT is buggy13:08
PaliDocScrutinizer05: right, but I do not want to start configuring new editor (on not my machine) if I need to edit some code...13:08
DocScrutinizer05that is terribly buggy13:08
Paliand learning for that sepcial key macro...13:08
DocScrutinizer05sure13:09
PaliDocScrutinizer05: yes, all this is buggy....13:09
Paliso this is reason why I want working TAB and not some buggy editor...13:09
Paliwhich doing some autoconversion, but do not understand full BASH formal grammer...13:09
DocScrutinizer05so, you convinced me best is to use \t *only*, for indentation. Second best is to use spaces *only*13:10
Paliyes13:10
DocScrutinizer05using space and \t mixed is prone to mess up13:10
Paliyes big mess and thanks to more editors it is default options....13:11
DocScrutinizer05:-/13:11
DocScrutinizer05use edlin!13:12
DocScrutinizer05;-P13:12
PaliI'm using vim :-) and here I can configure what I want13:12
Paliand I belive that configuration for TABs in vim will not be moved to another name (or config dialog :-) where to configure it13:12
Palifunny editors which changing design every version changing also all config options in config dialog13:13
Paliand always it is hard to find where is TAB configuration...13:13
Palivim should not change this config :P13:13
DocScrutinizer05well, if vim had a less steep learning curve, it would be a really great editor13:17
*** BCMM has quit IRC13:26
*** BCMM has joined #maemo-ssu13:29
FatPhilDocScrutinizer05: there are tabs. I use emacs, TAB indents the line to style (default perl style) using a mixture of tabs and spaces. I never manually do any indentation.13:30
DocScrutinizer05yeah, however it's quite probelmatic for any other editor or viewer13:33
DocScrutinizer05I'd suggest sed 's/\t/    /g;s/    /\t/g' zzztop.pl.txt13:36
DocScrutinizer05err13:36
DocScrutinizer05I'd suggest sed 's/^([[:space:]]*)\t/\1    /g;s/^([[:space:]]*)    /\1\t/g' zzztop.pl.txt13:38
DocScrutinizer05actualy I think you need to split that into two sed runs, since sed doesn't work on own result buffer afaik13:40
DocScrutinizer05I'm quite stunned that emacs is shipping with such broken macros13:42
DocScrutinizer05FatPhil: on another related topic, prolly more serious: http://privatepaste.com/f3559dd1ea13:43
DocScrutinizer05FatPhil: I downloaded the file with wget13:44
FatPhilshit13:46
FatPhilTHat file I grabbed from my old laptop before leaving.13:46
FatPhilI did leave in a bit of a rush, but I don't remember any changes since the stable version I was testing everywhere.13:47
FatPhilruns fine on my desktop13:47
FatPhiland my server13:49
DocScrutinizer05well, in line 483 there's actually a " // ", and in line 506 there's a "/"13:50
DocScrutinizer05whatever that means13:50
DocScrutinizer05nfc abour perl here13:50
DocScrutinizer05about*13:50
DocScrutinizer05perl version?13:51
FatPhilI'm 5.10, // is a bit like ||13:51
DocScrutinizer05seems my perl thinks it's a "multi-line // string"13:52
DocScrutinizer05no idea what perl version takes effect on N900, I just noticed some perl5.8.313:54
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ll `which perl5.8.3 `13:54
DocScrutinizer05-rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 10708 2010-09-01 15:08 /usr/bin/perl5.8.313:54
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ll `which perl`13:55
DocScrutinizer05-rwxr-xr-x 2 root root 10708 2010-09-01 15:08 /usr/bin/perl13:55
FatPhilJust tweaked it to use || instead, thanks for but report, portability is my goal13:56
FatPhils/but/bug/13:56
infobotFatPhil meant: Just tweaked it to use || instead, thanks for bug report, portability is my goal13:56
DocScrutinizer05for the life of mine I can't figure what "" my $prevals = $pre->{$p} // [0,0]; "" means13:57
DocScrutinizer05:-)13:58
*** lizardo has joined #maemo-ssu13:58
DocScrutinizer05I just know I'd like to own all the $$$ in all those perl sources ;-)13:58
DocScrutinizer05FatPhil: so you suggest to  s@//@||@   ?14:00
DocScrutinizer05yeah, seems to work \o/14:01
DocScrutinizer05wow, that's mad useful!14:03
DocScrutinizer05kudos FatPhil14:03
FatPhilyup, that's the only change I made14:04
DocScrutinizer05great stuff14:04
DocScrutinizer05:-D14:04
FatPhilI realise now, I probably only ever tested it on n950 and a galaxy.14:05
DocScrutinizer05I'd probably list all alternative values, even when 014:05
DocScrutinizer05seems I've seen a var (const?) regarding that?14:06
DocScrutinizer05-a ?14:06
DocScrutinizer05hihihihi14:07
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ./powertop.pl -a -s=0 -t= 5                   WARNING: Only low accuracy timing available .Detected 1 cpu sDetected 4 cpuidle states (3 )Sleeping for 0 seconds before collecting data for 5 second s            Illegal division by zero at ./powertop.pl line 506.14:07
DocScrutinizer05;-)14:08
DocScrutinizer05yeah, I like the -a parameter14:08
FatPhilAha - I never expected -s=0, as you always want the system to quiesce14:11
DocScrutinizer05I tried to figure how to make $calibrate=0; when $sleep==0; but I give up on perl syntax14:12
DocScrutinizer05(line 504)14:12
FatPhilSeems like we can just ignore calibration when -s=0. fixed, just grab again.14:13
FatPhilperl's pretty cranky. I've been using it nearly 20 years, and I forget how alien is sometimes is14:14
DocScrutinizer05indeed, scary stuff14:15
DocScrutinizer05\o/14:17
DocScrutinizer05wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O powertop.pl14:17
* DocScrutinizer05 frowns at .pl suffix14:17
* DocScrutinizer05 suggests officially calling it fpowertop14:18
DocScrutinizer05to distinguish from powertop14:18
FatPhilwell, zzztop distinguishes it even more!14:18
DocScrutinizer05if that's what you want it to get called14:19
DocScrutinizer05that's not in line with your "howto2 though14:19
DocScrutinizer05any mental hint on why it's called zzztop?14:20
DocScrutinizer05zzz like zzZZzz ?14:20
DocScrutinizer05I thought fp was a nice initials of fpowertop14:21
FatPhilZzz.. = sleeping14:21
DocScrutinizer05where fp could mean FatPhil, but f could also mean "fixed"14:22
DocScrutinizer05I'm fine with sleeping Zzz14:22
DocScrutinizer05:-)14:22
DocScrutinizer05so, for the sake of our "first level helpdesk hell" over at #maemo, could you fix the minit-howto, so users will have a binary zzztop on their devices?14:23
DocScrutinizer05~zzztop is http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop - the better and even FOSS powertop14:24
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0514:24
DocScrutinizer05Just save the source as powertop.pl   -->  Just save the source as zzztop14:25
FatPhilthat comment I wrote about half an hour before I woke up this morning, after my g/f said "phil, wake up, powertop's being talked about..."14:27
DocScrutinizer05or  "root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop"14:27
DocScrutinizer05hehehe14:27
FatPhilI should really fix the webserver so that it will happily serve .pl files as plain text, then I wouldn't need the .txt extension!14:29
DocScrutinizer05I like to see the .pl extension vanish too ;-)14:31
DocScrutinizer05so no use in fixing webserver14:31
DocScrutinizer05anyway, tested on N900 and approved :-D14:33
DocScrutinizer05FatPhil: thanks a ton!14:33
FatPhilnp, been meaning to do that for a long time14:33
DocScrutinizer05now we just need somebody to test it on KP ;-P14:33
DocScrutinizer05Pali: freemangordon: ^^^ ?14:34
DocScrutinizer05infobot: zzztop is also ``` root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop ยดยดยด14:36
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i'm not going to learn illegal characters14:36
DocScrutinizer05idiot14:36
DocScrutinizer05infobot: zzztop is also "" root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop ""14:36
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay14:36
DocScrutinizer05~zzztop14:36
infoboti heard zzztop is http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop - the better and even FOSS powertop, or "" root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop ""14:36
DocScrutinizer05dang!!!14:36
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, zzztop is http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/index.html#zzztop - the better and even FOSS powertop, or "" root; cd /usr/local/bin; wget http://fatphil.org/linux/maemo/zzztop.pl.txt -O zzztop; chmod +x zzztop ""14:37
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0514:37
*** mkaindl has quit IRC14:39
DocScrutinizer05infobot: zzztop is also http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/zzztop14:41
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay14:41
*** MohammadAG_ has joined #maemo-ssu14:42
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC14:43
*** MohammadAG_ is now known as MohammadAG14:43
*** M13 has quit IRC15:00
DocScrutinizer05T8.3 out?15:04
DocScrutinizer05our repo ninja hits again ;-P15:04
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: ping!15:10
*** dos1 has joined #maemo-ssu15:15
l4m3rxbtw it will be nice, to sync the releases of cssu-thumb & cssu-testing.15:30
DocScrutinizer05they should be in sync15:37
DocScrutinizer05actually cssu-thumb is just a layer on top of testing which is a layer on top of stock maemo15:37
DocScrutinizer05pretty hard to communicate15:38
DocScrutinizer05users always seem to think of CSSU like an alternative distro15:38
*** jonwil has quit IRC15:38
*** jonwil has joined #maemo-ssu15:39
DocScrutinizer05and ask even for weird stuff like "please hanmster instead of maemo filemanager in CSSU" - this is not how it works and not what it's meant to do15:39
DocScrutinizer05l4m3rx: even when cssu-t rolls out a new version, you'll profit on cssu-thumb directly15:40
DocScrutinizer05all update'able stuff from cssu-t gets updated on your cssu-thumb system15:41
l4m3rxwell... in theory - yes...15:41
l4m3rxin real life...i'll avoid updating 'till thumb is out...15:42
DocScrutinizer05which sometimes is a tad of a regression, if cssu-t rolls out a new version of a package that's also living in cssu-thumb in a thombified version15:42
DocScrutinizer05but only then15:42
DocScrutinizer05noting really bad will happen even then, just you lose the thumb-optimizations for a while until freemangordon updated thumb15:43
l4m3rxYes. I''ve been using lnx for 11-12 years now... i pretty much understand it.... the main reason for delaying this update will be, that I need my phone to work 24/7 and that the last time I had bad expirience.15:43
l4m3rxFor witch I don't blame any1, it just one for those things witch happend sometimes during updates :)15:43
DocScrutinizer05and only on that one package that got an ipdate on cssu-t, possibly for a really good reason, so you might prefer the new cssu-t version over the thombified old version15:44
l4m3rxYes, i agree... that's why I thing delaying cssu-testing 'till cssu-thumb is ready will be good15:44
DocScrutinizer05that's basically not related15:45
DocScrutinizer05I agree on delaying updates until some "quarantine time" expired and the early birds found the bugs15:45
DocScrutinizer05but that applies to thumb as well as it does to testing15:46
l4m3rxwhy is there -devil then?15:46
l4m3rxI though -devel was for that.15:46
l4m3rx-devel>-testing/-thumb>-stable , isnt that the path of a package?15:47
DocScrutinizer05for developers to test integration of packages. devel packages are *supposed* to be buggy15:47
DocScrutinizer05no15:47
DocScrutinizer05not really15:47
DocScrutinizer05-devel is sandbox/playground15:47
dos1-devel is something like experimental in debian15:47
DocScrutinizer05testing ---> stable is somewhat established concept15:48
DocScrutinizer05everything else is not that clear, and -devel is basically unrelated15:48
DocScrutinizer05and even a package in testing isn'r necessarily ever moving to stable eventually. It might turn out it's not fit for stable by concept15:51
l4m3rxThat's understandable15:51
l4m3rxbtw there should be some repo for depressed/removed packages.... and some package clean up from time to time....15:52
DocScrutinizer05and we actually eventually must start to think about that case, and how to keep testing and stable somehow in sync. Might be necessary to remove packages from testing15:52
DocScrutinizer05removed packages could move to -devel15:53
DocScrutinizer05it's undefined what's in devel, except that it usullay is buggy15:54
DocScrutinizer05no user ever should want to install sth from -devel15:54
DocScrutinizer05only devels install from devel, to debug15:55
* DocScrutinizer05 waves15:56
*** oldtopman has joined #maemo-ssu16:01
*** MrPingu has joined #maemo-ssu16:24
jonwil~seen freemangordon16:38
infobotfreemangordon is currently on #maemo (22h 22m 6s) #maemo-ssu (22h 22m 6s). Has said a total of 36 messages. Is idling for 6h 40m 23s, last said: 'DocScrutinizer05: it uses the same for() loop variable to print c-states and frequensies'.16:38
jonwilfreemangordon: ping16:40
*** Martix has quit IRC16:47
*** jonwil has quit IRC17:05
*** FlameReaper has joined #maemo-ssu17:12
*** oldtopman has quit IRC17:30
*** FlameReaper has quit IRC17:32
*** okias has joined #maemo-ssu17:42
*** lizardo has quit IRC17:55
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo-ssu18:01
*** arcean has joined #maemo-ssu18:33
*** arcean_ has joined #maemo-ssu18:38
*** arcean has quit IRC18:39
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: pong19:05
merlin1991yeah 8.3 is out19:05
merlin1991changelog will be provided in a few minutes19:05
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o merlin199119:06
*** merlin1991 changes topic to "Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version: Testing(2013-10-27): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo8.3; Stable(2013-01-10): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6"19:07
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o merlin199119:07
*** FlameReaper has joined #maemo-ssu19:11
*** peetah has quit IRC19:21
* sixwheeledbeast wishes to note that CSSU-S is "Stable(18.06.2013): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6.1" 19:21
*** peetah has joined #maemo-ssu19:22
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o merlin199119:23
*** merlin1991 changes topic to "Maemo Community Seamless Software Update "CSSU" channel, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | Known bugs: http://j.mp/communityssu-bugs | Channel logs: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/ | Sources: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/ | Latest version: Testing(2013-10-27): 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo8.3; Stable(2013-06-18): 21.2011.38-1Smaemo6.1"19:23
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o merlin199119:23
DocScrutinizer05tztztztztz19:24
DocScrutinizer05err, nevermind19:24
*** hbib has joined #maemo-ssu19:48
*** MrPingu has quit IRC19:54
sixwheeledbeastDocScrutinizer05: FatPhil: http://privatepaste.com/e6ad4e20cd20:13
*** MohammadAG_ has joined #maemo-ssu20:32
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo-ssu20:33
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC20:33
*** MohammadAG_ is now known as MohammadAG20:33
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC20:36
*** Martix has joined #maemo-ssu20:39
*** MrPingu has joined #maemo-ssu20:42
*** freemangordon has quit IRC20:45
*** amiconn_ has joined #maemo-ssu21:28
*** amiconn has quit IRC21:28
*** amiconn_ is now known as amiconn21:28
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo-ssu21:59
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC22:26
*** xes has joined #maemo-ssu22:42
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo-ssu22:42
*** FlameReaper has quit IRC22:47
*** FlameReaper has joined #maemo-ssu22:47
*** arcean__ has joined #maemo-ssu22:57
*** arcean_ has quit IRC22:57
*** FReaper has joined #maemo-ssu23:00
*** FlameReaper has quit IRC23:04
*** DrCode has quit IRC23:10
*** arcean__ has quit IRC23:10
*** hbib has quit IRC23:18
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo-ssu23:29
*** NIN101 has quit IRC23:49
« Sunday, 2013-10-27 Index Tuesday, 2013-10-29 »

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!