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| ToeiRei | Hi guys | 12:16 |
|---|---|---|
| ToeiRei | I just rediscovered my old N900 and flashed the last vanilla firmware... great to know that the phone is not dead. | 12:41 |
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| Estel_ | ToeiRei, flash latest u-boot, boot into kernel-power and install cssu-thumb and busybox-power, you will feel how "not dead" it is ;) | 12:46 |
| ToeiRei | bricked or really alive? | 12:48 |
| ToeiRei | ;) | 12:48 |
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| ToeiRei | looks like the n900 here doesn't want me to update to the latest cssu version | 13:35 |
| ToeiRei | is there any way to invoke the update via shell? | 13:37 |
| ToeiRei | nvm | 13:43 |
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| ToeiRei | Estel_: *-thumb = newer instruction set? | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ToeiRei: basically yes | 15:11 |
| ToeiRei | just installed around a little... | 15:12 |
| ToeiRei | the device feels faster | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NB you can't run thumb based software on a standard kernel | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it will give you coredumps like mad | 15:13 |
| ToeiRei | yup | 15:13 |
| ToeiRei | kernel is updated already | 15:13 |
| ToeiRei | I'm just stuck with one package which seems to be a meta package | 15:14 |
| ToeiRei | mp-fremantle-community-pr | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, this isn't exactly simple stuff, and for sure not manageable via random apt-get install or even apt-get upgrade (DEPRECATED!) | 15:18 |
| ToeiRei | the phone itself yells for backup over USB cable... which is something I can't do | 15:18 |
| ToeiRei | I don't run Nokia jazz on my linux box | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mp-fremantle-community-pr *is* CSSU and replaces similar package that defines Nokia stock fremantle | 15:19 |
| ToeiRei | it says here: Updating of "Maemo 5 Community SSU Package(thumb)" not possible | 15:20 |
| ToeiRei | packages are missing | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ToeiRei: when you already fail on that well known and well documented "problem", then you for sure want to reflash your device to stock fremantle | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then start *reading* about CSSU and how to install/update/handle it, before you even ponder using apt-get or cssu-thumb | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | CSSU isn't exactly simple stuff to install and handle, and cssu-thumb is some layer on top of it, that introduces a whole bunch of new dependencies and caveats | 15:22 |
| ToeiRei | I noticed | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while we took great effort to make CSSU a click_and_profit experience for all users, cssu-thumb is definitely NOT manageable by HAM click-and-forget, and using apt-get without knowing exactly what you do will break CSSU most likely and cssu-thumb *for sure* | 15:25 |
| ToeiRei | I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty, DocScrutinizer05 | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the problem, basically | 15:25 |
| ToeiRei | and... if you don't mind, I'm trying to avoid HAM | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's another problem | 15:26 |
| kerio | avoiding HAM is ok, just don't expect stuff to work without a hitch when using apt | 15:26 |
| kerio | and don't expect anything more than "best effort" help | 15:26 |
| ToeiRei | kerio: I'm not new to linux in general and to 'best effort' helpin | 15:27 |
| ToeiRei | +g | 15:27 |
| kerio | anyway, i think that at the moment, cssu-testing isn't installable without at least extras-testing enabled | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically the main problem is when users think maemo was a normal debian alike distro | 15:27 |
| kerio | (yes, it's a packaging bug) | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's NOT | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least when it comes to apt and pkg management | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rather: packaging | 15:27 |
| ToeiRei | DocScrutinizer05, I did run gentoo embedded on my N900... so I do know a little what I am messing around with - in terms of breakage | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, you don't | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your comment about mp-fremantle-community-pr shows that | 15:28 |
| ToeiRei | DocScrutinizer05, it's just missing dependencies regarding package management | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just that maemo HAS NO proper dependencies at all | 15:29 |
| ToeiRei | that's another problem | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rather it has an additional layer of package properties on top of what apt is even seeing | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which only gets handled by HAM | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let me put it simple: apt-get dist-upgrade will nuke your system | 15:31 |
| ToeiRei | I know | 15:31 |
| ToeiRei | this is why the howto did mention that | 15:31 |
| kerio | maemo has proper dependencies almost all the time | 15:31 |
| ToeiRei | and it was just the missing repo being enabled... and we're rolling again. | 15:31 |
| ToeiRei | there has to be some sort of dependencies as HAM needs to know | 15:32 |
| ToeiRei | and... ham does install the package now | 15:33 |
| ToeiRei | update successfully applied. | 15:34 |
| ToeiRei | kerio: thanks for the help so far | 15:38 |
| ToeiRei | DocScrutinizer05: thank you too. | 15:38 |
| kerio | merlin1991: dude, this bug still needs fixing | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fsckng finally sanitize that insane dependency in cssu-enabler, renove that cruft that pretends ro uninstall CSSU, never worked, and creates nonsensical unjustified and "forbidden" dependencies | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we're trying to pull *all* users to CSSU and same time we break T installer so it doesn't work for the more prudent and reasonable half of users. How silly is *that*? | 15:44 |
| kerio | it's not about the enabler | 15:45 |
| kerio | it's about not having all the packages in the repo | 15:45 |
| ToeiRei | and that's where things are getting dang dirty. | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, for all I know we got a new installer/enabler in cssu-t that allegedly allows uninstalling of cssu and depends on tools not available in stock maemo | 15:46 |
| kerio | mmh, i think that the missing dependency is on some library actually | 15:47 |
| kerio | but idk, i don't have an extra n900 to test this | 15:47 |
| kerio | *hint hint* | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw that uninstall is proven and certified to not work and render user's system in a fubar state | 15:47 |
| kerio | ofc not, package maintainers aren't supposed to guarantee working downgrades | 15:48 |
| kerio | that's why apt tries really hard not to do that, and you have to force him to do so | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: don't tell nonsense | 15:48 |
| ToeiRei | downgrades are evil wherever you do them | 15:48 |
| kerio | no, seriously, go read the debian policy | 15:48 |
| ToeiRei | yup | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I give a fuck about that policy | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it#s pali's uninstall feature that broke stuff | 15:49 |
| kerio | you should, because half of our packages come straight from upstream | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | blabla | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how's that relevant for cssu-enabler? | 15:49 |
| kerio | it's relevant because it's a *real* reason why "uninstalling" cssu is meaningless | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uninstalling cssu is as nonsensical as uninstalling KP | 15:51 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: so instead of going "pali, your uninstaller doesn't work, remove it" which may prompt him to go "ok, i'll fix it" | 15:51 |
| kerio | you can go "pali, your uninstaller can't work because of [section of debian policy] so remove it from cssu" | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or I go "see chanlog of <one year back>, <9 months back>..." | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pali is a gifted developer, but evidently not a very inspired distro maintainer | 15:53 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: he's very stubborn though | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just don't get it how merlin1991 ever could include that to cssu | 15:54 |
| kerio | ToeiRei: btw, have you installed cssu-thumb? | 16:00 |
| ToeiRei | yup | 16:01 |
| ToeiRei | system seems to be working so far | 16:01 |
| ToeiRei | wlan works | 16:01 |
| kerio | the default gecko is still kinda old | 16:02 |
| kerio | but in cssu-thumb, fennec is actually usable | 16:02 |
| kerio | (however, it's still slower than microb) | 16:03 |
| kerio | you might also want the latest flash player (look it up on TMO) | 16:03 |
| kerio | and always remember to use backupmenu often | 16:03 |
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| ToeiRei | kerio: I do my backups every bigger change | 16:08 |
| ToeiRei | btw - do we have hotspot functionality? | 16:09 |
| kerio | in ad-hoc mode, but yeha | 16:09 |
| kerio | *yeah | 16:09 |
| kerio | install mobilehotspot or qtmobilehotspot | 16:09 |
| ToeiRei | got it already. It's just for kernel support | 16:09 |
| kerio | KP's got that | 16:09 |
| kerio | and also cssu-thumb's kernel, because it's KP with a different name | 16:10 |
| ToeiRei | at the moment I am using an android phone as AP for doing stuff | 16:10 |
| kerio | hm, android can't do adhoc afaik | 16:10 |
| kerio | like, not even connect | 16:10 |
| ToeiRei | well... it's sufficient for 5 devices for sharing internet and allowing ssh ;) | 16:11 |
| kerio | i mean, if you use your n900 as a hotspot, your android device won't be able to connect to it | 16:12 |
| ToeiRei | okay | 16:12 |
| ToeiRei | not the biggest issue | 16:12 |
| kerio | the firmware for the wifi module doesn't support hostap | 16:12 |
| ToeiRei | suspected that already | 16:12 |
| ToeiRei | at least the N900 is open enough to keep it alive | 16:13 |
| ToeiRei | in the android field, you have too many closed source additions with some devices | 16:14 |
| kerio | you could say that for the n900 too | 16:14 |
| ToeiRei | what's really closed for the n900? | 16:15 |
| kerio | ~closed | 16:15 |
| infobot | closed is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages | 16:15 |
| kerio | i feel that one of the most important parts is ICD2, the connection daemon | 16:16 |
| ToeiRei | okay. | 16:19 |
| ToeiRei | there's plenty | 16:19 |
| kerio | yep | 16:19 |
| ToeiRei | on android the motorola atrix 4g suffers pretty much too due to chipset issues | 16:19 |
| kerio | and it's kinda hard to reverse engineer the arm-only binaries | 16:19 |
| ToeiRei | as nvidia and moto*FAIL* | 16:19 |
| ToeiRei | yup | 16:20 |
| ToeiRei | we're currently doing a 3.1 kernel for us there with some hw acceleration | 16:20 |
| kerio | it's doable with stuff that has an x86 version | 16:20 |
| ToeiRei | indeed | 16:20 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 frowns at hotline's advice "bring in the borked HDD, we'll have a look at it and give you a new one" | 16:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | time for major dd actions, and fixing/patching fstab | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hell | 16:23 |
| ToeiRei | dd-rescue should give you a nice progress bar | 16:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm yeah | 17:15 |
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