IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Thursday, 2013-04-04

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ToeiReiHi guys12:16
ToeiReiI just rediscovered my old N900 and flashed the last vanilla firmware... great to know that the phone is not dead.12:41
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Estel_ToeiRei,  flash latest u-boot, boot into kernel-power and install cssu-thumb and busybox-power, you will feel how "not dead" it is ;)12:46
ToeiReibricked or really alive?12:48
ToeiRei;)12:48
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ToeiReilooks like the n900 here doesn't want me to update to the latest cssu version13:35
ToeiReiis there any way to invoke the update via shell?13:37
ToeiReinvm13:43
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ToeiReiEstel_: *-thumb = newer instruction set?14:17
DocScrutinizer05ToeiRei: basically yes15:11
ToeiReijust installed around a little...15:12
ToeiReithe device feels faster15:12
DocScrutinizer05NB you can't run thumb based software on a standard kernel15:13
DocScrutinizer05it will give you coredumps like mad15:13
ToeiReiyup15:13
ToeiReikernel is updated already15:13
ToeiReiI'm just stuck with one package which seems to be a meta package15:14
ToeiReimp-fremantle-community-pr15:14
DocScrutinizer05well, this isn't exactly simple stuff, and for sure not manageable via random apt-get install or even apt-get upgrade (DEPRECATED!)15:18
ToeiReithe phone itself yells for backup over USB cable... which is something I can't do15:18
ToeiReiI don't run Nokia jazz on my linux box15:19
DocScrutinizer05mp-fremantle-community-pr *is* CSSU and replaces similar package that defines Nokia stock fremantle15:19
ToeiReiit says here: Updating of "Maemo 5 Community SSU Package(thumb)" not possible15:20
ToeiReipackages are missing15:20
DocScrutinizer05ToeiRei: when you already fail on that well known and well documented "problem", then you for sure want to reflash your device to stock fremantle15:20
DocScrutinizer05then start *reading* about CSSU and how to install/update/handle it, before you even ponder using apt-get or cssu-thumb15:21
DocScrutinizer05CSSU isn't exactly simple stuff to install and handle, and cssu-thumb is some layer on top of it, that introduces a whole bunch of new dependencies and caveats15:22
ToeiReiI noticed15:24
DocScrutinizer05while we took great effort to make CSSU a click_and_profit experience for all users, cssu-thumb is definitely NOT manageable by HAM click-and-forget, and using apt-get without knowing exactly what you do will break CSSU most likely and cssu-thumb *for sure*15:25
ToeiReiI'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty, DocScrutinizer0515:25
DocScrutinizer05that's the problem, basically15:25
ToeiReiand... if you don't mind, I'm trying to avoid HAM15:26
DocScrutinizer05that's another problem15:26
kerioavoiding HAM is ok, just don't expect stuff to work without a hitch when using apt15:26
kerioand don't expect anything more than "best effort" help15:26
ToeiReikerio: I'm not new to linux in general and to 'best effort' helpin15:27
ToeiRei+g15:27
kerioanyway, i think that at the moment, cssu-testing isn't installable without at least extras-testing enabled15:27
DocScrutinizer05basically the main problem is when users think maemo was a normal debian alike distro15:27
kerio(yes, it's a packaging bug)15:27
DocScrutinizer05it's NOT15:27
DocScrutinizer05at least when it comes to apt and pkg management15:27
DocScrutinizer05rather: packaging15:27
ToeiReiDocScrutinizer05, I did run gentoo embedded on my N900... so I do know a little what I am messing around with - in terms of breakage15:28
DocScrutinizer05no, you don't15:28
DocScrutinizer05your comment about mp-fremantle-community-pr shows that15:28
ToeiReiDocScrutinizer05, it's just missing dependencies regarding package management15:29
DocScrutinizer05it's just that maemo HAS NO proper dependencies at all15:29
ToeiReithat's another problem15:30
DocScrutinizer05rather it has an additional layer of package properties on top of what apt is even seeing15:30
DocScrutinizer05which only gets handled by HAM15:30
DocScrutinizer05let me put it simple: apt-get dist-upgrade will nuke your system15:31
ToeiReiI know15:31
ToeiReithis is why the howto did mention that15:31
keriomaemo has proper dependencies almost all the time15:31
ToeiReiand it was just the missing repo being enabled... and we're rolling again.15:31
ToeiReithere has to be some sort of dependencies as HAM needs to know15:32
ToeiReiand... ham does install the package now15:33
ToeiReiupdate successfully applied.15:34
ToeiReikerio: thanks for the help so far15:38
ToeiReiDocScrutinizer05: thank you too.15:38
keriomerlin1991: dude, this bug still needs fixing15:38
DocScrutinizer05indeed15:39
DocScrutinizer05fsckng finally sanitize that insane dependency in cssu-enabler, renove that cruft that pretends ro uninstall CSSU, never worked, and creates nonsensical unjustified and "forbidden" dependencies15:40
DocScrutinizer05we're trying to pull *all* users to CSSU and same time we break T installer so it doesn't work for the more prudent and reasonable half of users. How silly is *that*?15:44
kerioit's not about the enabler15:45
kerioit's about not having all the packages in the repo15:45
ToeiReiand that's where things are getting dang dirty.15:46
DocScrutinizer05well, for all I know we got a new installer/enabler in cssu-t that allegedly allows uninstalling of cssu and depends on tools not available in stock maemo15:46
keriommh, i think that the missing dependency is on some library actually15:47
keriobut idk, i don't have an extra n900 to test this15:47
kerio*hint hint*15:47
DocScrutinizer05btw that uninstall is proven and certified to not work and render user's system in a fubar state15:47
kerioofc not, package maintainers aren't supposed to guarantee working downgrades15:48
keriothat's why apt tries really hard not to do that, and you have to force him to do so15:48
DocScrutinizer05kerio: don't tell nonsense15:48
ToeiReidowngrades are evil wherever you do them15:48
keriono, seriously, go read the debian policy15:48
ToeiReiyup15:49
DocScrutinizer05I give a fuck about that policy15:49
DocScrutinizer05it#s pali's uninstall feature that broke stuff15:49
kerioyou should, because half of our packages come straight from upstream15:49
DocScrutinizer05blabla15:49
DocScrutinizer05how's that relevant for cssu-enabler?15:49
kerioit's relevant because it's a *real* reason why "uninstalling" cssu is meaningless15:50
DocScrutinizer05so what?15:50
DocScrutinizer05uninstalling cssu is as nonsensical as uninstalling KP15:51
kerioDocScrutinizer05: so instead of going "pali, your uninstaller doesn't work, remove it" which may prompt him to go "ok, i'll fix it"15:51
kerioyou can go "pali, your uninstaller can't work because of [section of debian policy] so remove it from cssu"15:51
DocScrutinizer05or I go "see chanlog of <one year back>, <9 months back>..."15:52
DocScrutinizer05pali is a gifted developer, but evidently not a very inspired distro maintainer15:53
kerioDocScrutinizer05: he's very stubborn though15:53
DocScrutinizer05I just don't get it how merlin1991 ever could include that to cssu15:54
kerioToeiRei: btw, have you installed cssu-thumb?16:00
ToeiReiyup16:01
ToeiReisystem seems to be working so far16:01
ToeiReiwlan works16:01
keriothe default gecko is still kinda old16:02
keriobut in cssu-thumb, fennec is actually usable16:02
kerio(however, it's still slower than microb)16:03
kerioyou might also want the latest flash player (look it up on TMO)16:03
kerioand always remember to use backupmenu often16:03
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ToeiReikerio: I do my backups every bigger change16:08
ToeiReibtw - do we have hotspot functionality?16:09
kerioin ad-hoc mode, but yeha16:09
kerio*yeah16:09
kerioinstall mobilehotspot or qtmobilehotspot16:09
ToeiReigot it already. It's just for kernel support16:09
kerioKP's got that16:09
kerioand also cssu-thumb's kernel, because it's KP with a different name16:10
ToeiReiat the moment I am using an android phone as AP for doing stuff16:10
keriohm, android can't do adhoc afaik16:10
keriolike, not even connect16:10
ToeiReiwell... it's sufficient for 5 devices for sharing internet and allowing ssh ;)16:11
kerioi mean, if you use your n900 as a hotspot, your android device won't be able to connect to it16:12
ToeiReiokay16:12
ToeiReinot the biggest issue16:12
keriothe firmware for the wifi module doesn't support hostap16:12
ToeiReisuspected that already16:12
ToeiReiat least the N900 is open enough to keep it alive16:13
ToeiReiin the android field, you have too many closed source additions with some devices16:14
kerioyou could say that for the n900 too16:14
ToeiReiwhat's really closed for the n900?16:15
kerio~closed16:15
infobotclosed is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages16:15
kerioi feel that one of the most important parts is ICD2, the connection daemon16:16
ToeiReiokay.16:19
ToeiReithere's plenty16:19
kerioyep16:19
ToeiReion android the motorola atrix 4g suffers pretty much too due to chipset issues16:19
kerioand it's kinda hard to reverse engineer the arm-only binaries16:19
ToeiReias nvidia and moto*FAIL*16:19
ToeiReiyup16:20
ToeiReiwe're currently doing a 3.1 kernel for us there with some hw acceleration16:20
kerioit's doable with stuff that has an x86 version16:20
ToeiReiindeed16:20
* DocScrutinizer05 frowns at hotline's advice "bring in the borked HDD, we'll have a look at it and give you a new one"16:22
DocScrutinizer05time for major dd actions, and fixing/patching fstab16:23
DocScrutinizer05:-S16:23
DocScrutinizer05hell16:23
ToeiReidd-rescue should give you a nice progress bar16:23
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DocScrutinizer05hmm yeah17:15
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