IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Tuesday, 2013-01-01

« Monday, 2012-12-31 Index Wednesday, 2013-01-02 »
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infobotpali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 3d 11h 17m 43s ago, saying: 'freemangordon, do you know state of portrait keyboard?'.00:37
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infobotpali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 3d 23h 59m 32s ago, saying: 'freemangordon, do you know state of portrait keyboard?'.13:19
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chem|sthappy armageddon2.014:57
FIQ|n900chem|st: too late, it happened 11 days ago ;)14:58
chem|stwe are 70 years ahead because some king wanted to have his birthday on a century shift...14:59
chem|stwhat was 1.0 if not the maya one?15:00
freemangordonchem|st: happy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJVztkKHUW015:01
FIQ|n900lol @ birthday15:01
FIQ|n900chem|st: y2k15:01
chem|stwell y2k was some nerd telling that his server clock will reset... to 1970..15:03
FIQ|n9003.0 will be y2k3815:03
FIQ|n900chem|st: heh15:03
chem|ststill fun :)15:03
chem|stnvm15:03
FIQ|n900hmm15:08
FIQ|n900is there any way to, in case of a boot issue @ maemo, drop to a shell instead of simply rebooting (which wont really solve stuff)?15:09
kerioFIQ|n900: automatically? eeeh15:11
FIQ|n900guess not15:12
kerioi suppose that you could start a shell if the bootreason is a certain one15:12
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DocScrutinizer05I guess we already fixed that issue for H-D respawn triggering reboot17:23
DocScrutinizer05for the very reason of "won't really solve stuff"17:24
DocScrutinizer05I been the one pushing it17:24
DocScrutinizer05we should do same for other reboot-on-respawn configs as well17:25
DocScrutinizer05e.g friggin bme17:25
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DocScrutinizer05or browserd17:26
DocScrutinizer05or TADAAAA we could redefine general semantics of dsmetool -t to dsmetool -f17:27
freemangordondo we have the sources?17:28
DocScrutinizer05since dsmetool -t  and dsmetool -r are basically brainfuck17:28
DocScrutinizer05wrapper script, freemangordon17:28
freemangordonhmmm17:28
freemangordoncould work, but is hackish17:29
DocScrutinizer05sure, I love hackish17:29
DocScrutinizer05it's tasty17:29
DocScrutinizer05or was that haeggis17:29
freemangordon:)17:29
freemangordonham and eggs?17:29
DocScrutinizer05~wiki heaggis17:30
infobotI couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=heaggis&go=Go17:30
DocScrutinizer05hmm17:30
DocScrutinizer05~wiki haggis17:30
infobotAt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haggis (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{about|the Scottish dish|the card game|Haggis (card game)|the tour operator|HAGGiS Adventures}} {{Infobox prepared food | name = Haggis | image = | imagesize = | caption = Haggis displayed for sale | alternate_name = | country = Unknown | creator = | type = Pudding | served = | main_ingredient = Sheep's heart, liver, lungs, and stomach (or sausage casing); onion, oatmeal, suet, spices ...17:30
* merlin1991 is back from the lands of no internet17:31
merlin1991anybody miss me? :D17:31
freemangordonwho were you?17:31
DocScrutinizer05you bet we did17:31
freemangordon:D17:31
freemangordonmerlin1991: seems we 'll need zlib on gitorious17:31
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freemangordonif you don't mind17:31
merlin1991did you find a real adavantage?17:32
merlin1991or is still not clear if it's faster :D17:32
DocScrutinizer05>>As the 2001 English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique puts it, "Although its description is not immediately appealing, haggis has an excellent nutty texture and delicious savoury flavour".<<17:32
freemangordonluf said there is. i'll benchmark when there are source17:32
freemangordon*s17:32
merlin1991https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/zlib17:33
freemangordonmerlin1991: BTW in case you've missed it NEONized libpng is ~ 33% faster on decoding17:33
merlin1991that IS a speedup :)17:33
DocScrutinizer05yup17:33
freemangordonyeah :)17:34
merlin1991how far did you have to go with the versions to get that? or did you just backport a patch?17:34
DocScrutinizer05any 'issues' known? like instabilities or sth?17:34
freemangordonlast 1.2 libpng with backported patch17:34
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: none so far17:34
freemangordon1.2.4917:34
freemangordonmerlin1991: BTW microb is using 1.213 or smthng, we should upgrade that too17:35
DocScrutinizer05so I guess it's save to assume Nokia just didn't have that patch available when they built fremantle17:35
freemangordonyep17:35
freemangordonit is pretty new, a couple of months old17:35
DocScrutinizer05then I don't think it's a big deal to slowly and carefully introduce it to CSSU17:35
freemangordonmerlin1991: or even better - add apng suppor to libpng and compile microb with system libpng and libzlib17:36
merlin1991apng?17:36
freemangordon~wiki apng17:37
merlin1991freemangordon: the mircob libpng was witihn the microb-engine sources right?17:37
freemangordonyep17:37
infobotAt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apng (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{other uses}} {{Infobox file format | name = Animated Portable Network Graphics | screenshot = | caption = An animated PNG (displays as static image in some web browsers) | extension = .png .apng | mime = | owner = | creatorcode = | genre = animated raster image format | containerfor = | containedby = | released = {{start date|2008|08|04}} | extendedfrom = PNG | extendedto = |free = yes ...17:37
freemangordonthe same for libzlib17:37
freemangordonapng is an extension to png made by mozilla. patches exist for every libpng version17:38
freemangordonthough luf said it is better to do the stuf step by step, i'd rather do it in one step - libpng+APNG+NEON, zlib+NEON and microb compiled with the former17:40
freemangordonlibs17:40
merlin1991btw is microb statically linked against the lib or is it just using a private version?17:41
freemangordonstatically linked against its private version17:41
freemangordonaiui17:41
* merlin1991 wonders if there was another reason for that besides having a fixed library version17:42
freemangordonapng17:42
merlin1991well they could have simply added that to the system lib17:42
freemangordonand there are some comments for zlib "don;t use system zlib because some problems with linking"17:43
freemangordonbut I was able to build it with system zlib yesterday, NP at all17:43
freemangordon(with 4.7.2, didn;t try 4.2.1)17:43
DocScrutinizer05fekkin wikipedia pictores on top of HTML text17:45
freemangordonmerlin1991: maybe we should check if there is anu patch for libpng in microb17:45
merlin1991freemangordon: we should that for sure17:45
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DocScrutinizer05I guess infobot using lynx or sth to render the wikipedia HTML, and there the URL tags like {{other uses}} show up on top for such pages. I'll pester TimRiker to filter out {{.*}} shit17:48
DocScrutinizer05particularly filter out {{other uses}} and {{Infobox.*}} (the latter not particularly easy for embedded other {{BS-links}})17:51
DocScrutinizer05could somebody come up with a counting RE that matches anny number of nested {} pairs?17:53
freemangordonmerlin1991: can't find patches to libpng in microb17:55
DocScrutinizer05hmmmm s/{{(^[{{]){{^[}}]*}}(^[}})}}/{{\1\2}}/17:57
DocScrutinizer05RE clearly are write-once/read-never17:58
DocScrutinizer05ugh17:58
DocScrutinizer05hmmmm s/{{(^[{{]*){{^[}}]*}}(^[}}]*)}}/{{\1\2}}/17:59
DocScrutinizer05or sth like that17:59
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DocScrutinizer05I.E repeatedly eliminate the most inner pair of {{.*}} until nothing left over18:08
kerioDocScrutinizer05: REs can't parse nested parentheses18:10
kerioyou need pushdown automata for that18:11
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lufmerlin1991: We're glad you returned from universe :D18:22
lufBTW I need patched libxml2 first :) Can you accept the merge request?18:22
luffreemangordon: come on I wrote you where you can find the sources.18:23
lufmerlin1991.at/~luf/zlib/source/18:23
DocScrutinizer05kerio: but you can recursively solve nested stuff from inside out18:23
lufAnd I'm not sure it's using neon as no problem with tests in sb ...18:24
DocScrutinizer05since RE can detect a pattern inside another pattern18:24
DocScrutinizer05or rather, an RE can match a {} pair that does NOT contain another { inside18:25
DocScrutinizer05which is clearly the definition of most inner nesting level, and once you eliminate that, you get the next outer nesting level as most inner one and can eliminate it as well18:26
kerioyeah but it's not just a RE then18:26
DocScrutinizer05repeat until you got a non-nested structure18:26
DocScrutinizer05repeated application of same RE is a known feature though18:27
DocScrutinizer05usually you mark those as /g18:28
kerioit's not "applied repeatedly", is it18:28
kerioit's "don't stop at the first match"18:28
DocScrutinizer05not sure18:28
kerioso at best you can remove all the lowest layers18:29
DocScrutinizer05you might be right for /g, however shell expansion is recursive for example18:29
DocScrutinizer05if $x expands to "$y" and $y expands to A then shell expansion of $x will result in A18:30
DocScrutinizer05so it's a known principle to do repeated expansion/transformation until the result doesn't change anymore18:31
lufmerlin1991: are again in non-internet universe?18:34
merlin1991no worries, I'll do the merge request :D18:34
luf:D18:36
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expression#Perl-derived_regular_expressions  >>Other examples of functionality possible with Perl [...] and recursive patterns<<18:53
keriowhen you add backtracking you get out of the realm of REs18:53
DocScrutinizer05since infobot is coded in perl afaik, I'd think this issue I came from will be solvable with PERL-RE18:53
DocScrutinizer05and actually no, backtracking is an indispensable component of solving RE greedy RE18:55
DocScrutinizer05greedy is default for RE18:55
DocScrutinizer05in fact backtracking is what makes RE slow and resource-hungry18:57
keriooh sorry, the issue is that if you add backreferences18:58
keriothen it's not really a RE anymore, in the formal sense18:58
kerioalso, REs aren't slow and resource-hungry if you know the theory: http://swtch.com/~rsc/regexp/regexp1.html18:59
DocScrutinizer05how does knowing the theory change runtime behaviour? ;-P19:00
keriobecause once you know the theory, you go "oh, this is a piece of crap", and use a different RE engine19:00
DocScrutinizer05o.O19:01
DocScrutinizer05lost me19:01
kerio(yes, you also need to do some changes, you don't just have to study to magically make your existing programs run faster)19:03
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DocScrutinizer05anyway I referred to real existing RE implementations, not to the mere theory of clean RE19:15
DocScrutinizer05and I don't give a **** about perle RE non-clean19:15
DocScrutinizer05I just pondered how to remove that {{naggedinagg-shit}} from "~wiki whatever"19:17
DocScrutinizer05since19:17
DocScrutinizer05~wiki apng19:17
infobotAt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apng (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{other uses}} {{Infobox file format | name = Animated Portable Network Graphics | screenshot = | caption = An animated PNG (displays as static image in some web browsers) | extension = .png .apng | mime = | owner = | creatorcode = | genre = animated raster image format | containerfor = | containedby = | released = {{start date|2008|08|04}} | extendedfrom = PNG | extendedto = |free = yes ...19:17
DocScrutinizer05is basically useless due to {{infobox bla bla bla}}19:18
DocScrutinizer05and infobot *is* written in perl19:18
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keriolook for the first {{, then go from there and start counting {{ and }}s until you get back to zero19:42
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I'm not senile enough so I had forgotten this design pattern, but it's obviously not simple to integrate into the otherwise probably RE-based infobot wiki HTML parser20:00
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DocScrutinizer05while a repeated non-greedy s/{{.*{{.*}}.*}}/{{}}/ would reduce nesting to a bare "{{}}", then remove that by s/{{}}//20:06
DocScrutinizer05as an additional benefit it won't remove simple plain non-nested {{links}}20:12
DocScrutinizer05and anticipating a max nesting depth you could even unroll the recursion and get away with like 15 lines of simple RE substitutions20:13
DocScrutinizer05s/HTML parser/lynx plugin/20:17
kerioit's not a lynx plugin, that's just the wiki syntax20:25
keriogetting the actual html page (from the mobile version of the site, for instance) would be better20:26
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DocScrutinizer05ooh, you say it gets the edit page?23:05
kerioyep23:05
DocScrutinizer05indeed23:05
DocScrutinizer05meh23:06
DocScrutinizer05yeah, getting the rendered HTML would be much better, though probably magnitudes more demanding regarding code to add to infobot23:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: are you kidding me23:06
keriothis is perl23:07
keriothere's probably a library in cpan that does exactly what we want23:07
DocScrutinizer05hehe good point23:07
DocScrutinizer05toldya no clue about perl here23:07
kerioWWW::Wikipedia - Automated interface to the Wikipedia23:07
DocScrutinizer05:-o23:08
kerioand entries have a text() method that tries to return the summary, or returns the fulltext if there's no summary23:10
DocScrutinizer05so what's that? a perl library?23:10
kerioyep23:10
kerioin cpan23:11
DocScrutinizer05:-D23:11
DocScrutinizer05friggin smartass stuff23:11
DocScrutinizer05~wiki ibm23:14
infobotAt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibm (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{About|the technology company sometimes referred to as "Big Blue"|other uses of these terms|IBM (disambiguation)|and|Big Blue (disambiguation)}} {{pp-move-indef}} {{Infobox company |name = International Business Machines Corporation |logo = |caption = Logo since 1972, designed by Paul Rand |type = MNC Public |traded_as = {{New York Stock Exchange|IBM}}Dow Jones ComponentS&P 500 Component ...23:14
DocScrutinizer05look ^^^ - useless23:14
kerioindeed23:14
DocScrutinizer05seems we should simply grep "}}(.*)==History==" and echo the inner match, unless no match at all when we should display same we do now23:17
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DocScrutinizer05here this would result in >>'''International Business Machines Corporation''' ({{New York Stock Exchange|IBM}}), or '''IBM''', is an American [[Multinational corporation|multinational]] [[technology]] and [[Consultant|consulting]] corporation, with headquarters in [[Armonk, New York|Armonk]], New York, United States. IBM manufactures and markets com...<<23:17
DocScrutinizer05still friggin ugly23:18
DocScrutinizer05this WWW::Wikipedia thing sounds mad useful23:20
kerioit outputs html though23:20
DocScrutinizer05:-/23:20
keriobut of course, parsing and cleaning html is easy23:20
keriofor instance, HTML::Parser23:20
DocScrutinizer05mhm23:20
kerioperl is a crappy language, if you must use it at least make use of cpan23:21
DocScrutinizer05don't you feel an irresistible urge to code a proof of concept perl sniplet? ;-)23:21
kerionah, i can't do perl23:21
keriothe syntax is awful, the object model is ugly and counterintuitive23:22
kerioand there's a ton of magic23:22
FIQ|n900and there's always 10 methods of doing things23:27
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FIQ|n900the good way, the decent way, the bad way, the really bad way, the ...23:28
FIQ|n900oh also perl is ok23:28
FIQ|n900as by existing it gave me a working IPS patcher on n900 :D23:28
kerioPERL - it's good cuz it exists23:29
FIQ|n900kerio: well23:30
FIQ|n900I can't say anything good of it23:30
FIQ|n900or bad23:30
FIQ|n900because I've never looked at the syntax, etc23:30
DocScrutinizer05wtf IPS catcher?23:31
DocScrutinizer05err patcher23:31
FIQ|n900catcher lol23:31
FIQ|n900IPS is a file format23:31
DocScrutinizer05mhm23:31
DocScrutinizer05~wtf ips23:32
infobotGee...  I don't know what ips means...23:32
FIQ|n900using for patching files (only use I've seen is rom patching)23:32
FIQ|n900think romhacks23:32
DocScrutinizer05mhm23:32
kerioa binary diff format, popular with emulators for some reason23:32
FIQ|n900yeah23:32
FIQ|n900exactly :p23:32
DocScrutinizer05binary diff? sounds friggin useful23:32
kerionah, it's crap23:32
DocScrutinizer05:-/23:32
kerioit's used for hysterical raisins23:33
FIQ|n900i've not looked into the format so I only care if it works or not :p23:33
* DocScrutinizer05 pretty much wants a useful binary diff/patch format. jdiff aka jojo diff might be exactly that, but... jury still out on that one23:33
DocScrutinizer05the poor raisins23:33
DocScrutinizer05I looked into the diff, and it been.... binary :-o23:34
DocScrutinizer05wtf is the use of a diff when you can't read the output?23:35
DocScrutinizer05of course it's meant to feed it to jpatch23:35
FIQ|n900also IIRC ips has some kind of size limitation23:35
DocScrutinizer05but still I want it to be human legible23:35
FIQ|n900because of what I've heard, the mother 3 translation project romhack couldn't use it so they developed their own format instead23:36
FIQ|n900so I doubt ips is that good23:36
FIQ|n900but it works, so.. :p23:36
kerioyou can only patch up to 2mb or something23:37
FIQ|n900hmm ok23:37
kerioi mean MB ofc23:37
FIQ|n900yeah23:37
FIQ|n900not millibits :D23:37
kerioit's either 2MB or 16MB23:38
kerioi'm not sure if it's in bits or bytes23:38
keriobut the address of the data to change is 3 bytes23:38
keriowhich is fairly ridiculous23:38
FIQ|n9003 bytes23:38
kerio24 bits of information isn't shit23:39
FIQ|n900so no patching >16MB stuff23:39
keriohahaha, and you can't patch at address 0x454f4623:40
keriobecause that's "EOF" and it's the end of the IPS file23:40
kerioyeah, it's 16MB23:40
keriowell, 16M - 1 B23:40
FIQ|n900kerio: brilliant23:40
FIQ|n900@ 0x454f46 limitation23:41
* DocScrutinizer05 dreams of <0Xaddr>:DEL <0Xend-addr>; <0Xaddr>:INS<0Xlength><byte>[<byte>...]; ----:OFFSET <0Xoffsset> <0Xaddr>[,<0Xaddr>...]23:43
DocScrutinizer05first cuts out bytes, 2nd inserts bytes, 3rd adds an offset to a list of absolute addr location contents23:44
DocScrutinizer05would make a pretty useful binary diff format23:44
DocScrutinizer05maybe even add <0Xaddr>:INSfrombuffer <num-of-buffer>, where buffer is a stack filled with last snippets from DEL23:46
kerioDocScrutinizer05: how big are address and length?23:47
DocScrutinizer05so you could swap23:47
DocScrutinizer05arbitrary23:47
keriook, how do i figure out when they end?23:47
keriounless you actually have a "<0X" then the number written in ascii then ">"23:47
FIQ|n900lol23:48
DocScrutinizer05ooh, between <0Xlength> and <byte> there's a space missing23:48
DocScrutinizer05otherwise there's : as delimiter23:48
DocScrutinizer05semantics of <byte><byte><byte> not sufficient for <0Xlength> is repeat and fill23:50
DocScrutinizer05obviously nothing forbids arbitrary unambiguous base for <length>, for <addr> I don't think allowing base-10 integers would meake much sense but it doesn't hurt either23:52
DocScrutinizer05in '<0Xaddr>:DEL <0Xend-addr>;' the both addr are first and last byte to cut23:53
DocScrutinizer05for INS first byte inserted is on the given addr, not after23:53
kerioshould CSSU ship the fmtxd modification?23:54
DocScrutinizer05writing the patch binary for that format looks quite simple, the diff binary gets a tad more tricky if it shall act smart23:54
DocScrutinizer05kerio: such highly philosophical questions on a day as lame as this one...23:55
kerioa lame day?23:56
kerioit's america's 2013th birthday!23:56
keriohttp://i.imgur.com/6bjq7.jpg23:56
DocScrutinizer05sure, half the world suffers from hangover23:56
keriowell, it still fits, considering we're talking about binary diff formats23:56
DocScrutinizer05indeed23:56
keriobut you're right, friends don't let friends drink and write specs for binary diffs23:56
DocScrutinizer05:-D23:57
DocScrutinizer05I kept pretty sober yesterday23:57
kerioi don't even drink \_o_/23:57
DocScrutinizer05o.O how that?23:58
kerioi don't like the taste of alcohol23:58
FIQ|n900neither do I23:58
DocScrutinizer05geeks23:58
DocScrutinizer05;-P23:58
keriowhich is fairly awesome actually, because otherwise i'm pretty sure i'd be an alcoholic23:58
FIQ|n900:p23:59
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