| DocScrutinizer05 | I probably should re-read it, periodic schedule expired for doing so | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I tell you I hate IMAP. One PC shows that PM, while I'm reading it the other PC filters/moves same msg to "tmo-notifications" dir, and on next poll on this PC the msg vanished while me reading it >:-( | 00:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IMAP meant to simplify multi-client, but in fact everything but single-client tends to become a major PITA | 00:03 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: multi-client but not at the same time | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gives me headache | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | diconnected IMAP, subscribed directories, shits-n-whistles | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and pretty easily you delete mails on server and each client \o/ | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what a mad insanity is THAT? | 00:13 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: that's why my filter are serverside | 00:36 |
| merlin1991 | hooked the filtering into the MDA so no client side moving/messing/madness | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that however means I need to duplicate all dirs serverside as well, and can't have different dirs on particular PCs | 00:37 |
| merlin1991 | that's true :D | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 's BS | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | insane concept | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, I as well can use a webmailer then | 00:39 |
| * ShadowJK has serverside filtering too | 00:39 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how da F I tweak IMAP to mimic plain good ole' POP? | 00:41 |
| kerio | tell your client to download mail and delete it on the server, i s'pose | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the latter is exactly what I DONT WANT to do | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and which I seem incapable to teach friggin IMAP about: *never* delete shit on server | 00:45 |
| *** kolp has quit IRC | 00:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least not without my explicit consent | 00:46 |
| kerio | then don't delete shit | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, shutup when you got nothing to contribute | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, pissed | 00:47 |
| * ShadowJK would say that "Don't delete stuff" is advantageous to not having stuff deleted :D | 00:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and a real insider advice | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the point is: IMAP deletes mail on my local PC | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which is an absolute nogo | 00:50 |
| ShadowJK | Well the whole point of imap is that you don't have local storage, or at most have a local cache of the remote contents, and that you have the exact same view on all clients | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the whole point is I *WANT* local storage | 00:51 |
| ShadowJK | then don't use imap | 00:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | the mailer server doesn't offer POP - now your turn to give advice | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't use IMAP just because I love bitching | 00:53 |
| Sc0rpius | IMAP deletes mail in your local PC? | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 00:54 |
| Sc0rpius | it doesn't do that to me | 00:54 |
| ShadowJK | I don't use any clients that does local storage :/ | 00:54 |
| Sc0rpius | unless I delete the mail in the server of course | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | great, how did you set up your mailer client? | 00:55 |
| Sc0rpius | I don't use web based email accounts | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | clients* | 00:55 |
| Sc0rpius | you set folder as "offline folders" then if an email gets downloaded it stays there forever | 00:55 |
| Sc0rpius | that's enabled by default by ANY Microsoft client | 00:55 |
| Sc0rpius | but if you use thunderbird, you have to set it per folder | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and when one clinet delets or just moves such mail to another dir, it vanishes on all other clients still | 00:56 |
| Sc0rpius | that also avoids the redownloading of the email every time you click on it | 00:56 |
| Sc0rpius | (which is very tedious) | 00:56 |
| Sc0rpius | if the email disappears from the server it is deleted in every client of course | 00:56 |
| Sc0rpius | but why would you delete an email in the server that you don't want locally? | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm already using offline IMAP | 00:56 |
| Sc0rpius | I meant that you still want locally | 00:57 |
| Sc0rpius | the server is like the repository of emails and your backup server actually. Every email should be there | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not the question | 00:57 |
| Sc0rpius | you're using it wrong :( | 00:57 |
| Sc0rpius | you want IMAP to be like POP3 | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the point is >>IMAP deletes mail on my local PC<< | 00:57 |
| Sc0rpius | and they are so different. | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR | 00:57 |
| Sc0rpius | ONLY if you delete the mail! | 00:57 |
| Sc0rpius | and if you're deleting the mail, you ARE DELETING THE MAIL | 00:57 |
| Sc0rpius | *EVERYWHERE* | 00:58 |
| Sc0rpius | that's why I say you're using it wrong | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if you're telling me same shit 10 times, you did it 10 times more than I need it. Since we've been there 30 min ago | 00:58 |
| Sc0rpius | so you want an email exchange protocol that when an email is deleted in the server it's still there in the clients that downloaded them? | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have to use IMAP since there is no POP available | 00:59 |
| Sc0rpius | then start writing your RFC. | 00:59 |
| Sc0rpius | POP is obsolete and very insecure, it had to disappear. | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit | 00:59 |
| Sc0rpius | in this age emails are supposed to be on the servers, not the client. Since broadband speeds are not fast enough we need still cache. That's why offline folder options exist | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IMAP is insecure since it deletes mails from my local PC | 01:00 |
| Sc0rpius | but the principle stays the same: mails belong to servers, not clients | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I beg to differ | 01:00 |
| Sc0rpius | eventually (and this is the part I hate) IMAP will disappear too | 01:00 |
| Sc0rpius | and we all have to use web based mail accounts | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hope so | 01:00 |
| Sc0rpius | and there will be no mail clients | 01:01 |
| Sc0rpius | just browsers | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, I'll use pigeons then | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or run my mail server on my PC | 01:01 |
| Sc0rpius | you can do that right now | 01:01 |
| Sc0rpius | many people do | 01:01 |
| * ShadowJK downloads emails to his server with fetchmail | 01:02 | |
| Sc0rpius | and install a POP3 daemon | 01:02 |
| ShadowJK | so I can run it through procmail and spamassassin | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a PITA since then I have to forward from one PC to the other, via POP | 01:02 |
| ShadowJK | then serve it out over imap through vpn | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or smtp | 01:02 |
| Sc0rpius | pay your own domain docscrutinizer.com and then install all the daemons you want in an Amazon E3 instance | 01:02 |
| Sc0rpius | you can't use your home connection for that since your IP must be registered as dynamic | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and how does that help with that IMAP-only mailserver ? | 01:03 |
| ShadowJK | you can send through isp smtp still | 01:03 |
| Sc0rpius | install POP3 in the instance and configure all IMAP accounts you have to forward to your @docscrutinizer.com account | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no forwarding service on that IMAP server | 01:04 |
| ShadowJK | Or use fetchmail to fetch from those accounts and feed it through procmail to @docscrutinizer or similar | 01:04 |
| Sc0rpius | :( | 01:04 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah you can use fetchmail to fetch mails and then via procmail store it in your Maildir | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | though I have to admit I love IMAP | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | and I really hated POP3. | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | because a hard disk crash means = all mails lost. | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your suggestions clearly indicate that IMAP is a broken-by-design protocol | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | a stolen laptop = all mails lost. | 01:05 |
| Sc0rpius | etc | 01:06 |
| Sc0rpius | with IMAP = no matter what, when or where you have your mails at your finger, even in your phone! | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | I used to have Maildir over NFS, instead of Maildir over imap :-) | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: I got my mails on 3 different clients locally, so no server HDD failure will kill them | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: ooh, tell me that again in a mail I can receive in airplane | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tell me how to do complex greps over 500.000 mails on server | 01:08 |
| Sc0rpius | ssh to it? | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bwahaha | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok so I need a own server, IMAP, ssh, for what? | 01:08 |
| Sc0rpius | that's what I do @ work. ssh, cd Maildir, egrep blablabla | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to deal with somebody saying "POP needs to vanish" | 01:09 |
| Sc0rpius | POP already vanished :/ | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all my other accounts work on POP just fine | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | many freemailers don't even offer IMAP | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *all* offer POP | 01:10 |
| Sc0rpius | Gmail who rules the world | 01:12 |
| Sc0rpius | only offer IMAPs | 01:13 |
| Sc0rpius | everybody else will follow | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that's google | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only fools follow google | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and of course google offers only services that keep their usrs online as often as possible | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how else would google track them, and spam them | 01:14 |
| merlin1991 | hm I run my own smptp/imap and I'm happy with it | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess you have identical mail setup on all your devices, even N900? | 01:16 |
| Sc0rpius | I configured Gmail to read all my accounts and I just IMAP them and I'm very happy with it | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, and google is *very* happy with that X-P | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | google is the only mail provider that explicitly says they will analyze each single mail they forward | 01:17 |
| ShadowJK | outlook.com ;-) | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so much for the superior security of IMAP over POP | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, anyway it seems to stop IMAP shit from occasionally erasing mails from my local PCs, I need a patched mail client | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw it's not unheard that *mail providers* delete mails in your account | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | by timeout, storage limit, but also to 'revoke' unpleasant mails they want make disappear. | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hooray for IMAP that allows to actually erase those mails from all your PCs' HDDs as well | 01:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 suspects Amazon delivers their e-books via IMAP as well | 01:25 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least they can do same shit, delete books from your reader, no matter you've already paid for them | 01:25 |
| Sc0rpius | that would be like... 1 book for me | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, call me old fashioned and silly, I don't like such concept | 01:26 |
| Sc0rpius | I still buy "paper" books | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not for books and not for mails | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now honestly: receiving a mail with a 10MB inline data, that I want to use on my laptop and on my PC. I need to recover the space on server though. How am I supposed to move that mail to MyDocs on one PC and keep it from vanishing on the other device 3 minutes later? | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or make that 15,000 old mails that I want to move to archives on 2 PCs | 01:32 |
| Sc0rpius | a 10 MB mail is a mail that should have not existed | 01:32 |
| Sc0rpius | mail servers should limit mail data to like 1 MB and force people to upload their big attachments somewhere else and put the link in the mail and that's it | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your "should" and "should not" starts to annoy me | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you seem to be one of those who think when they forbid large mails, nobody will send large mails to them anymore | 01:33 |
| Sc0rpius | in your case you have to copy the mail in every PC after you delete it from the server. | 01:33 |
| Sc0rpius | BEFORE you delete it, I mean | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the world won't ask what you thin "should" or "should not" be | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | think* | 01:33 |
| Sc0rpius | the idea of forbidding large mails is to avoid clients stalling downloading a big mail when maybe you have 20 mails after it more important that you won't see | 01:34 |
| Sc0rpius | actually the world thinks more like I think | 01:34 |
| Sc0rpius | most mail servers limit mail data to like 10 MB actually. | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, at least most people seem to share that one particular notion | 01:35 |
| Sc0rpius | if you try to send something bigger you get an SMTP error | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough that's almost only thing they share | 01:35 |
| Sc0rpius | heh not really | 01:35 |
| Sc0rpius | like I said, most people who doesn't use web based mails use IMAP | 01:35 |
| Sc0rpius | most workplaces have IMAP only, so if you want to read your work's mail, IMAP is your only choice | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not going to continiuue that debate with you, I don't like people forcefeeding me their better concepts by trying to abolish or forbid what *I* want | 01:36 |
| Sc0rpius | that means the world still thinks like me | 01:36 |
| Sc0rpius | what you want is for everybody to go back to the 70s | 01:36 |
| Sc0rpius | and sorry that's not gonna happen | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I tend to get insulting after a while during those discussions, so I better go afk | 01:37 |
| Sc0rpius | the future is cloud computing, everything in servers, clients will be just keyboards, screens and a network card, no hard disks | 01:37 |
| Sc0rpius | not even game consoles will have games locally | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what I want is anybody doing anything???? now you're starting to really sound stupid | 01:37 |
| Sc0rpius | everything is going where you don't wanna go | 01:38 |
| Sc0rpius | I'm only suggesting you should ADAPT | 01:38 |
| Sc0rpius | it's your problem if you don't want to | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | THAt WILL NOT HAPPEN! | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stop suggesting stuff to me! | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not going to continiuue that debate with you, I don't like people forcefeeding me their better concepts by trying to abolish or forbid what *I* want | 01:39 |
| ShadowJK | It's kinda funny, the feature you're using of pop3 is stuff that mail clients bolted on as a hack to try emulate imap when using pop :-) | 01:41 |
| Sc0rpius | the "keep mail on servers" thing right? | 01:41 |
| Sc0rpius | that's a hack. | 01:41 |
| ShadowJK | yeah, and especially ability to delete mails without deleting them on server, when using pop3 | 01:42 |
| Sc0rpius | the RFC says you should delete the mail the very instant you download it. | 01:42 |
| Sc0rpius | but yeah, at the time those clients took advantage of the weakness of the protocol | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | It reminds me of the secondary backup function my server does, every mail that it ever fetches gets copied into a big mbox. So, in theory I can "replay" the stream if incoming emails in case I accidentally delete something or lose something :-) | 01:43 |
| Sc0rpius | I actually grin when I lose an email. It's my excuse to say "I never got that" at work | 01:44 |
| ShadowJK | hah | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heard this bullshit about lean clients and whatnot first time 20 years ago. Still not seeing it in real life | 01:48 |
| ShadowJK | Well we had to wait for the lean and mean quadcore i7 to run the javascript first | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since no sane company will store their documents in a cloud, not even in a pink pony cloud | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and sooner or later each time they tried to roll that shit, the people finally noticed it's introducing a single point of failure | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which, to make matters wors, is not under their control for this BS cloud nonsense | 01:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IMAP my ass, probably any CIFS mount was smarter than this abomination | 02:02 |
| *** kolp has quit IRC | 02:04 | |
| ShadowJK | cifs and nfs mount to maildir emulates imap pretty well :-) | 02:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if Poettering... NAH *shuddder* | 02:09 |
| Sc0rpius | there are LOTS | 02:11 |
| Sc0rpius | LOTS | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | admittedly POP3 is kinda old and from a better world, but with a few augments it still works today. IMAP anyway obviously is not the alternative, rather an even worse complementary protocol | 02:11 |
| Sc0rpius | of companies using Google BUsiness and all its private documents in Google Drives | 02:11 |
| Sc0rpius | but LOTS of companies, not just one, not just 100, it's THOUSANDS | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and there a BILLIONS of flies eating shit | 02:12 |
| Sc0rpius | actually the company that I'm working for wants to migrate everything to Google Apps for Business | 02:12 |
| Sc0rpius | but I don't think they will, not because it's not a good idea (it is) | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | congrats | 02:13 |
| Sc0rpius | it's because it is very expensive | 02:13 |
| Sc0rpius | most universities around here have moved the students and teachers accounts to Google Apps since it's free for educational entities | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, probably almost as expensive as a security manager had been, so your company didn't think they need one as well | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, selling milk I probably also wouldn't bother about security | 02:15 |
| Sc0rpius | so if you're a student of, I dunno, Colorado State University, your student account is in Google and not in your university racks | 02:15 |
| Sc0rpius | I think almost every university in the states had migrated to Google Apps | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you think I give a shit about silly students? | 02:15 |
| Sc0rpius | so like I said, everything is going cloud | 02:15 |
| Sc0rpius | it's just an example, I'm not gonna name thousand of companies that have migrated to Google Apps and not having any email/docs/calendar/etc infrastructure at all | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | every idiot is going cloud, agreed | 02:16 |
| Sc0rpius | idiot is having to pay operations manager / engineers $100,000 a year when you can pay Amazon E3 for like $25 a month | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the companies I worked for last 5 years wouldn't allow you to log in to intranet from at home | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for security reasons | 02:17 |
| Sc0rpius | that's stupid, because telecommuting is very important these days | 02:17 |
| Sc0rpius | that's why most decent companies give very secure VPN solutions (even with USB dongles and whatnot) to their employees so they can log in from home | 02:18 |
| Sc0rpius | my gf works for HP | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah sure, you're so smart and big business soooo stupid | 02:18 |
| Sc0rpius | and she has a USB dongle + VPN software in her laptop | 02:18 |
| *** kolp has quit IRC | 02:18 | |
| Sc0rpius | ok, Hewlett-Packard is not big | 02:18 |
| Sc0rpius | right. | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, they're using a VPN | 02:18 |
| Sc0rpius | I'm assuming VPN when you say "log in to intranet" | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anbd probably some integrity guard software on the laptop | 02:19 |
| Sc0rpius | since you said "INTRANET" by definition that's not Internet-routable, uses private IPs, and you need VPN. | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I know they do, since we use HP stuff | 02:19 |
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| Sc0rpius | where I work for is not that big but we have VPN as well | 02:19 |
| Sc0rpius | a simple PPTP connection | 02:20 |
| Sc0rpius | actually you can't even read mails from home without firing up the VPNs first | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Sc0rpius: you're boring me. I'm not a silly co-student of yours | 02:20 |
| Sc0rpius | ok, but you have to admit you are VERY old fashioned and you are hating what's coming in the future | 02:21 |
| Sc0rpius | and also, you don't want to be educated | 02:21 |
| Sc0rpius | but you should embrace it | 02:21 |
| Sc0rpius | it's not bad | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're very self confident and telling me you can tell the future | 02:21 |
| Sc0rpius | you can read all about it everywhere you want: slashdot, digg, engadget | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I don't give a shit about your notion of what's the future like | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if I should or shouldn't embrace it | 02:22 |
| Sc0rpius | ok, then go use UUCP to getch your mails. | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see, I'm still around and living, and using modern technology, probably longer than you are alive | 02:23 |
| Sc0rpius | fetch | 02:23 |
| Sc0rpius | no, sadly you're not older than me | 02:23 |
| Sc0rpius | come on I've used PDP-11 | 02:23 |
| Sc0rpius | you were a kid by then | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? | 02:24 |
| Sc0rpius | :) | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the time the first PDP-8 hit the market I actually wasn't grown up | 02:24 |
| Sc0rpius | stop being so grumpy, embrace IMAP, since it's gonna disappear in the next 5 years and we all are gonna stuck with those stupid web based mail accounts | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stop giving me advice, I won't take it. I'll beat you with it eventually | 02:25 |
| merlin1991 | no logon to intranet is rather silly htough | 02:25 |
| merlin1991 | ah shit I'm like 2 pages late | 02:25 |
| Sc0rpius | :) | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: I said "from at home2 and implied "from my own PC" | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you won't find a sane company with IP assets that allows loging in to intranet with your own stuff, no matter if from at home or even bring to office | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | au contraire, you might get fired for *bringing* a laptop | 02:27 |
| Sc0rpius | well my brother works at EMC | 02:27 |
| Sc0rpius | and that's nasty, they hijack all your SSL connections | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | normal | 02:27 |
| Sc0rpius | so you think you're establishing an HTTPS connection to some place but no, you have a middleman finishing your SSL and starting a new one to the final place | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ | 02:28 |
| Sc0rpius | and that stupid "middleman" computer decides if that place you wanna visit is safe or not | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | normal | 02:28 |
| Sc0rpius | it could be your bank account and they are logging EVERYTHING | 02:28 |
| Sc0rpius | at least they tell you when you sign the offer letter. | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, they tell you every day when logging in to internet | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not intranet, INTERnet | 02:29 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah I guess when you open the browser they hijack whatever DNS domain you try with a webpage saying all the rules and an "OK I accept" button at the end | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | i.e when you tell that man in the middle that you want to access internet | 02:30 |
| merlin1991 | well it is simply silly to use the company network for anything private (what do we have our n900s for?) | 02:30 |
| Sc0rpius | yes exactly | 02:30 |
| Sc0rpius | this is what he did | 02:30 |
| Sc0rpius | he bought a 4G hotspot | 02:30 |
| Sc0rpius | he bought another SIM card from AT&T | 02:30 |
| Sc0rpius | he puts it there | 02:31 |
| Sc0rpius | and he has a "personal private wifi network" in his cubicle | 02:31 |
| merlin1991 | ew cubicle, I could never work in such a thing | 02:31 |
| Sc0rpius | well: office | 02:32 |
| Sc0rpius | I don't know I have never gone to his office | 02:32 |
| merlin1991 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1308348#post1308348 anybody got a guess what he/she means by "This is not latest release bug." ? | 02:33 |
| merlin1991 | btw DocScrutinizer05 did I understand correctly, that you ideal mail setup is a server that has all mails slammed into one place and each client downloads to a local cache applying his/her own filtering/sorting independend of the storage on the server? | 02:35 |
| Sc0rpius | well looks like the N900 was an extremely popular phone in India. | 02:35 |
| Sc0rpius | I guess hxka means that bug was not present in the previous release | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: exactly | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since a) my clients are not uniform, b) I want local mails for security and redundancy, easy management of local filters and searching in big volumes via mail client, and for access to all that info while in airplane or otherwise not online | 02:38 |
| merlin1991 | hm you could (ab)use imap for that, ie in thunderbird you could set up copy filters that filter the mail out of the (imap)inbox into local (non imap) folders | 02:39 |
| Sc0rpius | but that client has to read that mail first | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and pop3 serves perfectly for that purpose, while that one openmoko mail server forces friggin imap on me | 02:40 |
| Sc0rpius | and that would be a problem | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: that's exactly what happens when I download a mail to second PC now, and it vanishes on first PC | 02:40 |
| merlin1991 | s/filter/copy filter/ | 02:40 |
| infobot | merlin1991 meant: hm you could (ab)use imap for that, ie in thunderbird you could set up copy copy filters that filter the mail out of the (imap)inbox into local (non imap) folders | 02:40 |
| Sc0rpius | I have all my emails available on a plane using IMAP, that's not the problem. | 02:40 |
| merlin1991 | ah I had copy in already :D | 02:41 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: how can it vanish if you copy and not "move" the mails? | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, copy, yeah maybe that would work, though doubles local storage needed for single purpose to make imap happy | 02:42 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: I'm sure you can tweak thunderbird to only keep headers of the imap mails | 02:42 |
| merlin1991 | and not keep a full "local" copy for things in the imap folder | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not using thunderbird | 02:43 |
| merlin1991 | well maybe your mail client can too :D | 02:43 |
| merlin1991 | I guess Kmail then? | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might be possible for other clients too | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas all experiments with that account endanger the mails on server | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | one wrong setting and pooof 250,000 mails gone | 02:44 |
| merlin1991 | I'd test it with a temp account ;) | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, temp account on a mailserver with imap :-S | 02:46 |
| merlin1991 | why not xD | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | because it's friggin annoyance and time consuming | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not a reason, but a concern | 02:47 |
| merlin1991 | you could say the same about email in general | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or in short: a major PITA | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all I planned to do was moving my mail form old to new laptop, while keeping the old one active as backup | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you could do such migration as your fulltime job | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when finished, start all over again with next OS release ;-P | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | old PC has kmail1.12.2, on new one I had to downgrade from kmail2 to 1.9.10 since that new shit doesn't work | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | google for akonadi and weep | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll go for copy and removal of mails older than some days | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though I'd like to nuke that IMAP crap out of our solar system | 02:56 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: btw, i can't believe thunderbird doesn't have a setting to "never delete anything that the server tells you to delete" | 10:04 |
| luf | freemangordon: it seems quite ok with libpng NEON backporting :) | 10:30 |
| kerio | yay | 10:33 |
| freemangordon | luf: good. BTW I was unable to reproduce bluetooth bug here. Though OPP transfer rate was some 1KB/s. | 10:47 |
| freemangordon | luf: re NEON lipng - did you find some benchmarks? | 10:50 |
| freemangordon | *libpng | 10:50 |
| freemangordon | luf: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/libhildonfm/blobs/master/hildon-fm/hildon-file-system-private.c#line229 | 10:58 |
| freemangordon | though we miss obex module in osso-gnome-vfs2, so enabling ^^^ does not help much. but at least file manager accepts obex://[xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx/ as location | 11:00 |
| jon_y | ipv6? | 11:01 |
| freemangordon | jon_y: hm? | 11:01 |
| jon_y | [xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx] looked like ipv6 :) | 11:02 |
| freemangordon | no, this is BT address | 11:02 |
| jon_y | I was experimenting with dns64 and nat64, latter didn't go too well | 11:02 |
| jon_y | mac address? | 11:02 |
| freemangordon | yep | 11:03 |
| freemangordon | something like | 11:03 |
| jon_y | I'm curious if the n900 kernel support virtual adapters | 11:03 |
| jon_y | any ideas? | 11:03 |
| jon_y | err, I mean vlan | 11:04 |
| freemangordon | don;t see why not. though I am not sure the kernel is compiled with that option enabled | 11:04 |
| jon_y | ok, maybe kp has it | 11:04 |
| freemangordon | i doubt | 11:04 |
| jon_y | would it be too much if I asked config.gz be compiled in? :) | 11:05 |
| freemangordon | ask Pali | 11:05 |
| jon_y | ok, I will | 11:06 |
| jon_y | Pali: what do you use for developing uboot and building kp? | 11:06 |
| Pali | jon_y: ubuntu | 11:06 |
| jon_y | stock ubuntu? | 11:07 |
| Pali | arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc cross compiler | 11:07 |
| jon_y | oh, any debian derivative will do? | 11:07 |
| freemangordon | Pali: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October.txt | 11:08 |
| freemangordon | search for open_folder | 11:08 |
| freemangordon | I wonder if that will solve USB hang issue | 11:08 |
| Pali | jon_y, I'm using Kubuntu (but core packages are same) | 11:09 |
| jon_y | ok, I assume this is the standard soft float toolchain? | 11:10 |
| jon_y | just add -mthumb for thumb? | 11:11 |
| kerio | oh, i don't know if the kernel compiles nicely with -mthumb | 11:11 |
| freemangordon | forget -mthumb for 2.6.28 | 11:11 |
| kerio | freemangordon: why, what's the issue? | 11:12 |
| jon_y | obviously this is for running with kp | 11:12 |
| jon_y | for kernel, I just want framebuffer | 11:12 |
| kerio | oic | 11:12 |
| kerio | well, KP's got framebuffer i think | 11:12 |
| jon_y | won't it show a bootup log instead of the 5 blinking dots? | 11:13 |
| kerio | oh, you want fbcon | 11:13 |
| jon_y | err, yeah that | 11:13 |
| jon_y | I can't really tell them apart since I haven't actually play with it yet | 11:14 |
| jon_y | just look for fbcon and make it built-in right? | 11:14 |
| jon_y | if it is just that, I'm going to install debian NOW :) | 11:15 |
| kerio | you need to boot with the appropriate parameters ofc | 11:15 |
| kerio | hm, maybe not actually | 11:16 |
| jon_y | are they not part of the built in command line? | 11:16 |
| jon_y | I'm already using uboot, so it is just cloning the boot config right? | 11:17 |
| kerio | jon_y: apparently you just have to modprobe fbcon early | 11:17 |
| kerio | so i assume that compiling it in gives you an even earlier console | 11:18 |
| jon_y | ah, even simpler | 11:18 |
| kerio | Pali: how would one load a module early on in the boot process? | 11:21 |
| jon_y | I remember there was an init file that controlled the boot video | 11:22 |
| kerio | the boot video is run by hildon-welcome | 11:22 |
| kerio | the dots are hildon-startup-progress | 11:23 |
| Pali | kerio, install kernel-power-settings and add module to /etc/modules | 11:23 |
| kerio | both are uninstallable cleanlyish | 11:23 |
| Pali | kerio, or create new /etc/event.d/<file> and add here modprobe module | 11:23 |
| jon_y | kerio: is there a way to disable both without uninstalling? | 11:24 |
| kerio | jon_y: sure, change the appropriate files in /etc/event.d/ | 11:24 |
| jon_y | thanks | 11:25 |
| kerio | there was a line you had to disable to uninstall hildon-startup-progress cleanly | 11:26 |
| jon_y | hmm, disabled the blinky dots but putting fbcon in /etc/modules don't seem to work | 11:29 |
| jon_y | does /etc/modules or /etc/event.d/hildon-* run first? | 11:30 |
| kerio | maybe you also have to specify that you want the console there | 11:30 |
| jon_y | need to add console=tty0 or something in the kernel command line? | 11:31 |
| kerio | tty1, if we're to believe backupmenu | 11:32 |
| jon_y | ok, will try later | 11:32 |
| freemangordon | luf: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/osso-gnomevfs-extra/1.9.6-3/ | 11:35 |
| freemangordon | obex gnomevfs backend :) | 11:36 |
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| jon_y | Pali: how do I append kernel cmdline? | 12:45 |
| jon_y | ITEM_CMDLINE seem to mean replace the entire cmdline | 12:45 |
| Pali | jon_y, where? | 12:45 |
| jon_y | in the uboot .item file | 12:45 |
| Pali | yes, ITEM_CMDLINE will replace in-build kernel cmdline | 12:46 |
| Pali | you cannot append to cmdline which is hardcoded in zImage | 12:46 |
| jon_y | ok, co copy /proc/cmdline and modify appropriately? | 12:46 |
| Pali | yes | 12:47 |
| jon_y | ok | 12:47 |
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| jon_y | Pali: any idea what ttyMTD is? | 12:51 |
| kerio | jon_y: tell me if you manage to make it work | 12:53 |
| jon_y | ok, trying now | 12:53 |
| kerio | jon_y: apparently ttyMTD,log is for mtdoops | 12:54 |
| jon_y | sweet | 12:54 |
| Pali | yes ttyMTD is for oops logs | 12:55 |
| jon_y | working, blacks out after the blinking dot kicksin | 12:55 |
| kerio | "log" is the name of the mtd partition | 12:55 |
| kerio | jon_y: neat, what did you change? | 12:55 |
| Pali | "console=ttyMTD,log" selects the MTD named "log" for mtdoops. | 12:55 |
| Pali | http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2009-February/024631.html | 12:55 |
| jon_y | in uboot, add console=tty1 | 12:55 |
| kerio | and modprobe fbcon? | 12:55 |
| jon_y | there was already a console=tty0 | 12:55 |
| kerio | k | 12:55 |
| jon_y | yeah, and that too in /etc/modules | 12:56 |
| jon_y | so, can enough kernel boots destroy the log partition? | 12:57 |
| kerio | jon_y: enough oopsies | 12:57 |
| freemangordon | luf: seems obexftp is fully supported in ossofilemanager/ossognomevfs2, we just need to tweak obex gnomevfs module to use BT4 dbus api | 12:57 |
| jon_y | kerio: well, kernel is good now, so no need to do that until I need to debug :) | 12:58 |
| kerio | i wonder if that logging increases battery usage | 12:59 |
| kerio | i mean, the fb console | 12:59 |
| jon_y | well, probably less than writing to nand | 12:59 |
| kerio | there's nothing written to nand | 13:01 |
| kerio | except in case of an oops | 13:01 |
| Pali | jon_y, what are you trying? | 13:01 |
| jon_y | does that include crashing when messing with modprobe? | 13:01 |
| kerio | i suppose so | 13:02 |
| jon_y | Pali: I'm good that fbcon is working | 13:02 |
| jon_y | now I'm just messing about | 13:02 |
| freemangordon | luf: http://i48.tinypic.com/1zour12.jpg | 13:03 |
| kerio | freemangordon: neat, for obex exploring? | 13:03 |
| freemangordon | yep | 13:03 |
| freemangordon | we just need to change dbus api for newer bluez | 13:04 |
| freemangordon | on an FOSS module | 13:04 |
| freemangordon | *in | 13:04 |
| freemangordon | that one used to be supported in maemo4 | 13:04 |
| freemangordon | afaik | 13:05 |
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| jon_y | interesting | 13:09 |
| jon_y | without console=ttyMTD,log, no messages at all | 13:10 |
| jon_y | need to double check | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jon_y: kerio: Pali: you're not going to nuke mtdoops, are you? | 13:18 |
| Pali | I did not touch mtdoops | 13:19 |
| kerio | no one is doing shit doc | 13:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mtdoops *always* been around, and NO it doesn't need any significant amount of energy | 13:19 |
| Pali | freemangordon, do you know state of portrait keyboard? | 13:20 |
| jon_y | kerio: what is your /proc/cmdline? | 13:28 |
| kerio | init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6 | 13:29 |
| jon_y | ok, odd, my boot messages no longer show | 13:29 |
| freemangordon | Pali: state as in? | 13:32 |
| freemangordon | what I know that something works in portrait, never tried it | 13:32 |
| jon_y | kerio: sadly, the boot messages no longer shows | 13:46 |
| jon_y | which is to say weird as hell | 13:46 |
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| luf | freemangordon: cool :) | 14:53 |
| luf | freemangordon: can you be more descriptive what you enabled/installed? I'll add it to my TODO | 14:54 |
| luf | freemangordon: libpng - no benchmark. I haven't backported it yet. Just I took a look into sources. However it's just some read_filter support so I don't know if it helps a lot. | 14:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ quiet times are ober, never again 2h silence on any maemo related channel | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | over even | 15:17 |
| freemangordon | luf: I installed osso-gnomevfs-extra | 15:23 |
| freemangordon | luf: changed #if 0 to #if 1 here https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/libhildonfm/blobs/master/hildon-fm/hildon-file-system-private.c#line229 | 15:25 |
| freemangordon | and modified om-dbus.c(osso-gnomevfs-extra), function om_dbus_get_dev_list to enable fake devices | 15:27 |
| int_ua | Doc: isn't it because of winter? | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [general notice] regarding channel moderation of users starting with es and ending with l_ PRETTY PLEASE immediately contact any of the channel moderators jaffa, chrashanddie/teotwaki, chem|st, merlin1991, mohammadag. Preferably those that are already online and most recently active. PLEASE do NOT contact me! | 15:29 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: estel still banned? | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 15:31 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 15:31 |
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| freemangordon | luf: maybe it does not worth the effort to backport NEON if it will gain 1%-2% in speed. I think it is better if you find some benchmarks before doing so, so we can assess if it makes sense. I'll try to find too | 15:42 |
| freemangordon | luf: https://codereview.chromium.org/5141003 | 15:48 |
| freemangordon | this is for 1.2. unfortunately this is neither upstreamed nor verified/tested aiui | 15:49 |
| freemangordon | it is said there we should gain 20-25% | 15:50 |
| freemangordon | luf: you can check that one too: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462796 | 15:55 |
| povbot | Bug 462796: was not found. | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ack | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 16:16 |
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| mark_g44 | Hi. Scratchbox.org is offline, also mirror: http://thecust.net/nelisquare/hathor-sdk/ is offline. Is there any working mirror ? I need scratchbox for amd64 (I have deb files on my hdd, but only for i386 :/) | 16:31 |
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| luf | freemangordon: this neon patch is totally different from upstream :( | 16:37 |
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| luf | I'll try both and we'll see. | 16:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | mark_g44: ping merlin1991 or thedead1440 | 16:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or teotwaki, resp check wedrop.it mirror if SB is there | 16:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | mark_g44: we got some backups, but none of them is "public" right now | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | official maemo migration will take a few days longer, and it's unclear yet if SB guys, Nemein, HildonFoundation Board negotiated something for SB future | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: we got SB backuped on your server?? | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oops, one ? is enough | 16:50 |
| merlin1991 | yea | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could you share a link for mark_g44 | 16:52 |
| merlin1991 | not publicly avaiable | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe allow ftp? | 16:52 |
| merlin1991 | no ftp on the server :D | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or send it as mail attachment? ;-P | 16:53 |
| mark_g44 | hmm, I'll install 32bit debian on my pc | 16:53 |
| merlin1991 | hmm how do I create a user for sftp only? | 16:53 |
| int_ua | merlin1991: thumbs up for no ftp :) | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errr, login shell sftp? | 16:53 |
| merlin1991 | without login | 16:53 |
| merlin1991 | like drop.maemo.org | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no admin here | 16:54 |
| merlin1991 | ah shit I just realized I only have the scratchbox mirror locally, sorry | 16:54 |
| int_ua | BTW, merlin, do you have the backup of this backup? | 16:55 |
| mark_g44 | ok, I'll install 32bit debian, because I have i386 debs on my hdd | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry guys, need to get some shopping done before council meeting | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbl | 16:56 |
| merlin1991 | hm bit I do have the files in var/cache/apt/archives/ on the server | 16:56 |
| merlin1991 | mark_g44: which packges do you need? (the sb on the server is harmattan, so there might be some fremantle stuff missin) | 16:57 |
| * merlin1991 just relalized, that that mean the gcc tolchain is missing then | 16:57 | |
| mark_g44 | packages needed for linaro toolchain gcc 4.7.2 | 16:58 |
| mark_g44 | scratchbox-core scratchbox-libs and scratcbox-devkits* | 16:58 |
| mark_g44 | around 250MB | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ no SB on http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ | 16:59 |
| merlin1991 | mark_g44: http://cdnm.at/~christian/sb/ | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/backed-up-sites.txt shows you might contact thedead1440 if in a pinch | 17:00 |
| merlin1991 | ping me when you got them so I can remove them again | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: is that any useful stuff to host on cloud-7 ? | 17:01 |
| merlin1991 | I have no idea about the license on them | 17:01 |
| merlin1991 | so I wouldn't do that | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't give a .... | 17:02 |
| merlin1991 | most of them are probably gpl and I have no source | 17:02 |
| mark_g44 | merlin1991: Thank You | 17:02 |
| mark_g44 | downloading now | 17:02 |
| merlin1991 | well probably all of them | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mompl, please don't take it down yet | 17:02 |
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| merlin1991 | mark_g44: I'm currently booting my laptop, should have the missing devikts for fremantle there | 17:03 |
| mark_g44 | ok, devkit doctools is missing :/ | 17:06 |
| mark_g44 | git and svn | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: I could oull then into http://maemo.cloud-7.de/migration-project/sb | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pull* | 17:10 |
| merlin1991 | mark_g44: atm I'm uploading the rest | 17:12 |
| merlin1991 | mark_g44: you don't really need git and svn | 17:13 |
| mark_g44 | merlin1991: Big Thanks | 17:13 |
| mark_g44 | ok | 17:13 |
| merlin1991 | they provide git and svn inside sb, but at least the git package is so outdated, that it foobars newer repos | 17:13 |
| merlin1991 | or throws random errors | 17:13 |
| merlin1991 | I usually do svn and git stuff from outside scratchbox | 17:14 |
| mark_g44 | Should I install scratchbox-toolchain-cs2009 and other toolchains for linaro gcc472 ? | 17:15 |
| merlin1991 | nope you don't need that if you drop in the linaro toolchain | 17:16 |
| freemangordon | mark_g44: what are you trying to do? | 17:16 |
| mark_g44 | ok | 17:17 |
| mark_g44 | I want only install the newest linaro gcc4.7.2 toolchain on my debian 64bit | 17:17 |
| merlin1991 | arf upload speed here SUXX | 17:17 |
| merlin1991 | oh just realized, devkit doctools is 132Mb that could be the reason aswell :P | 17:18 |
| mark_g44 | hmm | 17:18 |
| mark_g44 | I'll install 32bit | 17:18 |
| merlin1991 | nah I've started it | 17:19 |
| merlin1991 | I'll finish it | 17:19 |
| mark_g44 | it's no problem for me | 17:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | please toss the filenames in PM so I can pull to cloud7 | 17:19 |
| freemangordon | mark_g44: in case you find it useful: http://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU-thumb_toolchain_setup_%28gcc4.7.2-linaro%29 | 17:20 |
| merlin1991 | oh shit, up speed 50kb/s | 17:21 |
| freemangordon | not the latest 4.7.2, but still | 17:21 |
| merlin1991 | mark_g44: depending how fast you need this I can upload it tonight | 17:21 |
| merlin1991 | I didn't realize my up speed here is that bad | 17:22 |
| mark_g44 | merlin1991: ok, no problem | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | up is always a pain | 17:22 |
| merlin1991 | yeah but 50kb? | 17:22 |
| merlin1991 | that's an insult | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ | 17:23 |
| mark_g44 | freemangordon: I readed it and I had it | 17:23 |
| mark_g44 | the newest is 2012_09 :) | 17:23 |
| mark_g44 | from merlin1991 repo | 17:23 |
| merlin1991 | mark_g44: freemangordon put the files there ;) | 17:24 |
| mark_g44 | I know :) | 17:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, really need to run now | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cya folks | 17:32 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: 2012_09 is broken | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | maybe I should remove it | 17:59 |
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| mark_g44 | merlin1991: Now I'm on debian 32bit and installing scratchbox :) | 19:11 |
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| luf | merlin1991: scponly ("shell" for allowing only sftp/scp and no login) | 20:23 |
| freemangordon | luf: did you see my explanations ^^^ | 20:23 |
| luf | merlin1991: it also support chroot but it needs more time ... | 20:24 |
| luf | freemangordon: I see nothing after my last reply. | 20:25 |
| freemangordon | luf: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/latest.log.html#t2012-12-28T15:23:43 | 20:26 |
| kerio | luf: it needn't to support chroot, really | 20:26 |
| kerio | opensshd can do that for you | 20:26 |
| luf | I saw that. | 20:27 |
| freemangordon | ok | 20:27 |
| luf | Thanks. I'm adding it to my TODO. | 20:27 |
| freemangordon | luf: which one? as obex ftp will be lots of job ;) | 20:28 |
| luf | freemangordon: obexftp ... | 20:29 |
| freemangordon | :D | 20:30 |
| freemangordon | nice | 20:30 |
| luf | It'll be nice to browse remote devices using obexftp. | 20:30 |
| luf | So easily ... | 20:30 |
| freemangordon | sure. I hope i'll be able to give a hand there | 20:30 |
| luf | Feel free to focus on the kernel and glibc + thumb. It's great and huge job. | 20:31 |
| luf | I know I'm slower ... but it's not so important ;) | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | BTW i tested yesterday with 2 differents stacks (Tosh/IV?) and 3 drivers (toshiba, broadcom, widcomm). no problem with OPP | 20:32 |
| luf | freemangordon: it has to be something specific. | 20:32 |
| freemangordon | luf: exactly because you are slower, I hope I will be done with kernel/glibc by the time you need help with obexftp :P | 20:33 |
| luf | merlin1991 prepared test environment for me where it fail so I have to find some time and find the reason. | 20:33 |
| luf | freemangordon: It's possible. In that case your help will be welcome :p | 20:33 |
| freemangordon | I m interested in having working obexftp too | 20:34 |
| freemangordon | next step could be ssh :D | 20:34 |
| luf | what? ssh over BT? It's working ... | 20:34 |
| freemangordon | no, browse ssh in ossofm | 20:34 |
| freemangordon | and smb | 20:35 |
| luf | Understand. | 20:35 |
| freemangordon | you know smb:/// ssh:/// | 20:35 |
| freemangordon | seems like the code is there | 20:35 |
| freemangordon | but disabled | 20:35 |
| luf | :) Maybe there is a good reason for it. We'll see. | 20:36 |
| freemangordon | aiui they didn;t finish it because they we out of time | 20:37 |
| freemangordon | *were | 20:37 |
| freemangordon | they == nokia | 20:37 |
| luf | :) | 20:37 |
| freemangordon | and luf(the bluez man) was not there :P | 20:37 |
| luf | freemangordon: I'm not bluez man :p | 20:38 |
| luf | I'm just lazy man ... | 20:38 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | Also it used gnome-vfs and upstream dropped smb | 20:39 |
| luf | freemangordon: .arch armv7-a - is this ok for N900? from asm code in libpng ... | 20:39 |
| ShadowJK | iirc | 20:39 |
| ShadowJK | (it was present in Maemo4) | 20:39 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: yeah | 20:39 |
| freemangordon | luf: that's perfect | 20:40 |
| freemangordon | luf: do cat /proc/cpu | 20:40 |
| freemangordon | ShadowJK: any clue what is used in modern distributions? | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | for smb in nauilus | 20:41 |
| freemangordon | *nautilus | 20:41 |
| ShadowJK | nfi | 20:41 |
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| luf | freemangordon: https://codereview.chromium.org/5141003/patch/1/2 - has support for more bpp but I don't know asm to put it into the upstream code :( | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | luf: what? | 20:45 |
| freemangordon | luf there are 3 patches | 20:45 |
| luf | png_read_filter_row_neon.S | 20:46 |
| freemangordon | luf: this patch is against our version | 20:46 |
| freemangordon | it should apply cleanly | 20:46 |
| freemangordon | luf: search for +--- a/pngrutil.c | 20:47 |
| luf | freemangordon: but I trust more the upstream version. | 20:47 |
| freemangordon | luf: but you have to backport it | 20:47 |
| luf | freemangordon: upstream version has support only for 3bpp and 4bpp (this patch has also 1bpp, 2bpp, 6bpp and 8bpp. | 20:48 |
| freemangordon | aah, i got what you meant | 20:48 |
| luf | freemangordon: I'm mostly done with backporting. | 20:48 |
| freemangordon | luf: well, we risk either ways | 20:49 |
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| freemangordon | so I think it is safer to use the patch made agains our version | 20:49 |
| freemangordon | even if it is buggy, we can fix it | 20:49 |
| luf | freemangordon: I hope upstream is more tested than this chromium patch. | 20:49 |
| freemangordon | luf: maybe, but with different version | 20:50 |
| luf | It's not a problem. | 20:50 |
| luf | I red the code ... | 20:50 |
| freemangordon | also, neon code is not included in tar.gz on libpng site | 20:50 |
| freemangordon | BTW check the last change of that code, it is a couple of months ago | 20:51 |
| luf | freemangordon: are you sure about it? I didn't check if it's included. | 20:51 |
| freemangordon | yes, I am | 20:51 |
| freemangordon | luf: but you'd better check it too | 20:51 |
| freemangordon | luf: I a pretty ok with ARM asm, if there is some bug, I think I can find and fix it. there are some 200-300 instructions after all | 20:52 |
| luf | freemangordon: ok. | 20:53 |
| freemangordon | luf: did you look here https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462796 | 20:53 |
| povbot | Bug 462796: was not found. | 20:53 |
| luf | No valid patch files were found in the attachment. | 20:55 |
| freemangordon | luf: seems mozilla is using (plans to use) the same CodeAurora code | 20:56 |
| freemangordon | luf: what? | 20:56 |
| freemangordon | https://bug462796.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=690720 | 20:56 |
| freemangordon | of course the patch is fo mozilla, but it should be easy to get the real code from it | 20:57 |
| freemangordon | *for | 20:57 |
| luf | It can't show diff. I see the code now. | 20:57 |
| luf | BTW didn't you mention some problem with vectorized ...? | 20:57 |
| freemangordon | luf: only when gcc does it. this is hand-crafted code | 20:57 |
| freemangordon | luf: aah, i see, those are not .patch files, but source code | 20:59 |
| freemangordon | it is even easier for us then | 20:59 |
| luf | BTW the bugzilla code is the same as the previous link (just contains also zlib neon patch) | 20:59 |
| freemangordon | exactly | 21:00 |
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| freemangordon | BTW neon in zlib should work for us too. though I am not sure if libpng is using its own or system zlib | 21:00 |
| freemangordon | luf: seems that CodeAurora code works after all. And as it supports wider range of bpp, i'd say - go fo it :D | 21:02 |
| freemangordon | plus it wont need backporting | 21:02 |
| luf | freemangordon: ok. I wasted another hour or two of my life :D | 21:02 |
| freemangordon | luf: aah, sorry for that :( | 21:03 |
| luf | My wrong decisin ;) So don't worry ;) | 21:03 |
| luf | ... be happy | 21:03 |
| freemangordon | luf: BTW ^^^ are only my thought, feel free to do whatever you want :) | 21:03 |
| freemangordon | *thoughts | 21:03 |
| luf | freemangordon: I know but it seems it's the better way from my point of view too. | 21:04 |
| freemangordon | luf: well if you are convinced too... | 21:04 |
| freemangordon | everyone is happy :D | 21:05 |
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| freemangordon | arcean: did you see the bugreports on TMO? | 21:13 |
| freemangordon | for h-d that is | 21:13 |
| luf | freemangordon: do you know if this "#if defined(__ARM_NEON__)" is defined or I have to define it manually? | 21:20 |
| freemangordon | luf: I think you have to define it | 21:21 |
| freemangordon | luf: BTW do you mind to create neon branch on gitorious and to push your changes there | 21:37 |
| freemangordon | i'll have some free time tomorrow | 21:37 |
| luf | Who knows :D | 21:38 |
| freemangordon | who knows what?!?! | 21:38 |
| luf | It's answer for your question ;) | 21:38 |
| freemangordon | luf: noone knows if you mind? :D | 21:39 |
| luf | sure ;) | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | aah, i see | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | however, if you push your changes tomorrow i'll try to run some benchmarks and tests | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | s/changes/changes,/ | 21:40 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: however, if you push your changes, tomorrow i'll try to run some benchmarks and tests | 21:40 |
| luf | Ok. I have some weird troubles now with compiling so who knows if I push it ... | 21:40 |
| freemangordon | luf: does not matter | 21:40 |
| freemangordon | once you got sick of it, push the code on gitorious, i'll take it from here | 21:41 |
| luf | Assembler source seen but `CCAS' is undefined | 21:41 |
| luf | Any hint? | 21:41 |
| freemangordon | MFC what is that | 21:41 |
| freemangordon | aah | 21:41 |
| freemangordon | maybe you need to include AC_PROG_AS | 21:41 |
| freemangordon | or something | 21:41 |
| freemangordon | in Makefile.am or who knows where | 21:42 |
| freemangordon | in some autotools script | 21:42 |
| luf | aaah I see. | 21:42 |
| luf | configure.ac | 21:42 |
| freemangordon | for example | 21:42 |
| freemangordon | :D | 21:42 |
| freemangordon | luf: it is AM_PROG_AS | 21:44 |
| luf | Yes I went throught. | 21:45 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 21:45 |
| luf | The message was more descriptive. | 21:45 |
| luf | But I can't believe it's so simple :) | 21:45 |
| freemangordon | luf: but please. commit .S and changes to .c code in a different commits | 21:45 |
| luf | Why? | 21:46 |
| luf | (just curious) | 21:46 |
| freemangordon | it is easily readible when you splict code changes in parts | 21:46 |
| freemangordon | *split | 21:46 |
| luf | as you wish ;) | 21:46 |
| freemangordon | *more easily | 21:47 |
| freemangordon | :D:D:D | 21:47 |
| luf | If I remember it :) | 21:47 |
| freemangordon | well, it is not critical | 21:47 |
| freemangordon | does it compile now? | 21:47 |
| luf | Not fully because some build obstructions. I also add the configure.ac change into diff ... | 21:48 |
| freemangordon | ok | 21:48 |
| * freemangordon is afk | 21:49 | |
| luf | What is afk? | 21:49 |
| luf | Yes it's go through configure part but I made a mistake in patch ;) | 21:50 |
| freemangordon | ~afk | 21:51 |
| infobot | [afk] Away From Keyboard | 21:51 |
| luf | Hey it's magic. You're away from keyboard and drop a message here. What input device are you using? | 21:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yohoho folks, how's life? | 22:13 |
| kerio | fairly decent | 22:21 |
| luf | It's great next year nearly behind me :D | 22:22 |
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| luf | Hmmm any idea how to benchmark libpng with enabled NEON optimization? | 22:38 |
| kerio | freemangordon: is zlib also thumbified? | 22:40 |
| luf | It seems it's working here :) | 22:40 |
| luf | But no measurement ... | 22:40 |
| luf | freemangordon: I push the changes to the git (to the master). | 23:00 |
| luf | freemangordon: ... libpng ... | 23:00 |
| luf | freemangordon: I checked the presence of the _neon function in the .so files | 23:01 |
| kerio | freemangordon: libpng uses zlib, you should thumbcompile that too | 23:01 |
| luf | kerio: don't be so hurry ;) I'm going to check the NEON opt in zlib ... | 23:02 |
| kerio | wtf, zlib has NEON too? | 23:02 |
| kerio | isn't it for floats | 23:02 |
| luf | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462796 | 23:02 |
| povbot | Bug 462796: was not found. | 23:02 |
| kerio | luf: <3 | 23:02 |
| luf | kerio: what is less then 3? :D | 23:03 |
| kerio | your ability to accept gratitude without snarky remarks | 23:04 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if mgedmin could teach povbot to parse URLs and not nag with nonsense when a URL evidently isn't pointing to bugs.maemo.org | 23:33 | |
| freemangordon | luf: why in master? | 23:39 |
| freemangordon | kerio: neon is SMD | 23:39 |
| freemangordon | no matter int/float | 23:39 |
| freemangordon | same as MMX/SSE | 23:39 |
| kerio | i see | 23:39 |
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| luf | freemangordon: because it's cool. | 23:47 |
| luf | freemangordon: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/view_file?file=zlib-1.2.7-adler32_vec_kaffeemonster.patch&package=zlib&project=home%3Astskeeps%3Acheck-zlib&rev=c0999fc2e13c75f801849437bed4f9ea | 23:47 |
| luf | freemangordon: zlib upgrade + neon? | 23:48 |
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