IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Sunday, 2012-12-02

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Palimerlin1991, I suggest to downgrade pulseaudio ABI version from 16 to 1504:56
Palisee reason on http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1149125#post114912504:56
Palimaemo version 16 is incompatible with upstream version 1604:57
Paliupstream pulseaudio versions are compatible (e.g. version 26 is compatible with 16)04:57
Paliso also maemo version 16 is compatible with upstream 1504:58
Paliabove maemo incompatibility causing that I'm not able to use maemo pulseaudio server via network04:59
Palisee also: http://www.mail-archive.com/pulseaudio-discuss@mail.0pointer.de/msg09900.html04:59
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DocScrutinizer05ohlol05:56
DocScrutinizer05hail polypaudio!05:56
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jonwilpali: ping14:30
Palijonwil, pong14:30
jonwilhow goes it? Done anything interesting recently? :)14:31
keriohow recently?14:31
Palisee log about pulseaudio :-)14:32
Palijonwil, and I wrote open source replacement for battery & profile selector menu applet14:32
Paliboth are in cssu-devel14:33
jonwilnice14:33
Paliprofile selector which support all configured profiles (not only silent & general)14:33
Palijonwil and BME replacement is for testing14:33
jonwilnice :)14:34
kerioPali: what's the link to the bme replacement again?14:35
Palihttps://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement14:35
keriono, the precompiled .debs14:35
Palihttps://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51-bme-replacement/14:36
jonwilThe systemui work done by freemangordon is great too :)14:42
jonwilIf I had the time and inspiration, I would go back and work more on icd stuff or libcal or connectivity UI or whatever else14:46
jonwilbut I am too busy these days for N900 mostly14:46
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jonwilso pali, is your bme stuff a proper drop-in replacement for Nokia BME stuff?14:57
Palishould be14:57
Palibut needs testing14:57
jonwildoes it actually make use of whatever BME info exists in CAL?14:57
jonwilwhatever the BME CAL data is?14:57
Palino, it does not use BME CAL14:57
jonwilok, what data is in BME cal anyway?14:58
PaliI know that in BME CAL are constants for temperature formula14:58
Paliseems that constants are same on all n900...14:58
Paliso I hardcoded conversation formula for temperature into kernel driver14:58
Palijonwil, I do not know what other is stored in BME CAL14:59
jonwilok, so it contains correct temperature calculation formula?14:59
Palishould be, at least it returns +/-1°C in range 0-30°C15:00
PaliI think we have right formula for temperature15:00
Palijonwil, btw, freemangordon already RE libcal: https://gitorious.org/cal15:01
PaliI tested that only in nandsim, and it worked15:01
Palijonwil, and now we have open source flasher15:02
Pali0xFFFF15:02
Palijonwil, see: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8799615:02
jonwilnice that we have 0xFFFF15:03
jonwilexcept that it doesn't seem to do all things Nokia tools do :)15:03
Palijonwil, only mmc flashing & proper testing is missing15:04
jonwilok :)15:05
PaliI rewritten 0xFFFF and added full fiasco support15:05
jonwilgreat for libcal, one less binary blob needed for meego/mer/nemo :)15:06
kerioPali: hm, i'm not sure about the temp - i had it register 27° when there were definetely less than that15:10
kerio(it's still precise enough)15:10
keriojonwil: the bme replacement works fine for me15:11
Palikerio, there is also some noise due to madc15:11
Paliand in kernel is table of raw <-> °C values15:12
Paliwith precise 1°C15:12
jonwilso you aren't using the math, you are using precomputed data tables?15:13
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: bq27200 doesn't report ambient temp16:45
kerioi'm talking about the temp reported by dsme-thermalobject-surface, not sure where it gets the data16:46
DocScrutinizer05what makes you think you know what that value should be?16:54
DocScrutinizer05do you know what's the surface of the thermalobject?16:55
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DocScrutinizer05jonwil: not precomputed, predefined. Derived from 'lab'-test17:11
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jonwilso this is better than using the actual math because...?17:11
Palijonwil, math library is not in kernel17:12
Paliand I need log1017:12
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: pali had the brilliant idea to read out raw and hald-addon-bme computed battery temp values17:12
jonwilok, so kernel has no log1017:12
jonwilmakes sense17:12
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: and then I did a test series with my device in freezer17:13
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: after all it's less than 200 points in that table, so bytesize isn't that bad for kernel17:14
DocScrutinizer05and pali did a very clever splitting into two tables17:14
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jonwilok, great17:16
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Palimerlin1991, see: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/pulseaudio/merge_requests/117:33
Palialso tell about this to luf too17:33
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kerioPali: oh, version 15 so that newer versions of pulseaudio will use the older, working protocol when talking to our pulseaudio?17:43
Paliyes17:43
PaliI want this: connect my bluetooth headset to n900 and also to notebook. But connecting a2dp to two devices are not possible... So solution can be to connect n900 and notebook audio17:45
PaliI tried to use bluetooth a2dp for n900 <-> notebook connection, but it was very slow when I connected also bluetooth headset to n90017:46
Paliso I'm trying to use wifi for that17:46
Paliand easy way can be to use directly pulseaudio becuase it it network audio server17:46
Palibut nokia crippled pulseaudio in n900 and network connection is not possible :-(17:47
Palikerio, do you have any other idea how to connect bluetooth headset to both devices?17:48
kerioPali: bluetooth audio sink on your laptop17:49
keriomake the n900 use it as the bluetooth headset17:49
keriothen make your laptop use your headphones17:49
Palikerio and there is other problem. my notebook has bad bluetooth antenna. n900 has better17:50
keriolol wat17:50
keriomy n900 has an awful bluetooth antenna :(17:50
Paliso I want to use n900 bluetooth for higher range17:50
kerioPali: keep the n900 close to your laptop :)17:50
keriooh, i see17:50
Palinot possible, because I want to go to other room with connected bluetooth headset17:51
keriouse the esound network protocol, i heard it works17:51
Palibut n900 can be close to notebook17:51
kerioand, of course, use it through usb networking17:51
Palikerio, yes I tried it17:51
Palibut problem is that esound has only sink17:51
PaliI need both sink & source17:51
kerioyou only need the sink, don't you?17:52
keriothe sink on the n90017:52
kerioand then let it output normally to your BT headset17:52
Paliand problem with esound is that there is 1s lattency17:53
Palino idea why17:53
Palipulseaudio has support for synchronization17:54
Paliand next problem with esound is that autosuspend module not working...17:54
keriowell, fix pulseaudio :)17:54
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PaliI'm thinking about other solution: stream audio via UDP with some synchronize protocol17:55
Palimaybe with some realtime compression17:55
Palibut I do not know which codec is good for realtime stream...17:56
kerioPali: you need pc-n90017:56
kerioover usb networking, you won't need compression17:56
Palimaybe not17:57
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Palibut I preffer wifi as wireless solution17:57
keriowifi *and* bluetooth will work like absolute crap17:57
kerioseriously17:58
SkryPali: how about using rtp (which usually uses udp) via gstreamer or ffmpeg18:03
PaliSkry, do you have some howto?18:04
Skrywith gstreamer this could be a pipeline audio source -> encode with dsp -> stream with rtp, with ffmpeg it's a one-liner18:05
Skrycan't remember exact syntax but something like this ffmpeg -f alsa -i hw0:0 -acodec libmp3lame -ab 128k -ac 2 -re -f rtp rtp://ip:port18:08
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DocScrutinizer05really clever headsets can pair two 2 hosts concurrently18:34
DocScrutinizer05via A2DP18:34
RST38hAnd play each into a separate ear!18:35
DocScrutinizer05hahahaaa18:35
DocScrutinizer05I guess they either mix, or mute the input with lower prio when higher prio input starts playback18:35
DocScrutinizer05honestly, use *wired* headset with N900, then you can pair the N900 to arbitrary A2DP as virtual BT headset18:36
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: either g_ether sucks, or socat sucks, or the n900 sucks18:42
kerio:(18:42
DocScrutinizer05or kerio sucks? ;-P18:43
DocScrutinizer05kerio: what's the problem?18:44
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: i can only get to 10MB/s via usb networking18:48
keriosocat tcp-listen:31337 /dev/null on one side, socat /dev/zero tcp-connect:ip:31337 on the other18:50
DocScrutinizer05hmm18:51
DocScrutinizer05~10 * 818:51
infobot8018:51
DocScrutinizer05overhead of factor 5, easily possible depending on blocksize of transmitted pkgs18:52
DocScrutinizer05USB2 maxes out at 400MBit/s18:53
Paliffmpeg or libav not working...18:53
kerio*480, in theory18:53
Palino sound over wifi18:53
DocScrutinizer05aah, ok, 48018:53
keriook, i'm going to try with g_nokia18:53
Palionly on localhost is ffmpeg working18:53
DocScrutinizer05kerio: btw you're using TCP aiui, you know this is a connection-oriented transport, with ACK and all18:54
keriohm, still maxes out at 10MB/s18:55
keriowith nc, now18:55
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DocScrutinizer05netcat and socat are basically identical18:57
DocScrutinizer05you're still sending packages of unknown size via whole TCP stack, with complete protocol18:57
DocScrutinizer05use UDP for a start18:58
DocScrutinizer05use dd to pipe blocks of known size to socat18:58
DocScrutinizer05(or find the right socat parameters to define blocksize and no timeout)18:59
DocScrutinizer05ethernet is NOT a rs232 cable18:59
keriohah, second time OS X panic'd when doing mass USB transfers19:00
keriosilly me expecting a BSD system to be good at networking19:00
RST38hSadly, it is not.19:00
keriogood at networking, or a BSD system?19:01
DocScrutinizer05kerio: (overhead) you know each ethernet TCP packet has a header with MAC and port-addr, a IP origin and destination, a size-of-payload value, then a leadout with checksum, whatnot else19:02
keriohm19:02
DocScrutinizer05ethernet is NOT rs23219:03
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kerionow i'm wondering if my router has the appropriate rndis ethernet driver19:03
kerioand i'm also wondering why libicd-network-usb doesn't take down the usb0 interface properly19:03
keriooh well19:03
DocScrutinizer05for packet sizes of 16kBytes, overhead is almost negligible. For transfering single chars as ethernet packages, it's insane19:04
RST38hAppleTalk was however.19:04
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: so basically you're probing some random stuff with your socat setup19:05
keriothere should be a way to specify the packet size, right?19:05
kerioin theory, at least19:05
DocScrutinizer05the result is meaningless, unless you understand what's really going on19:05
DocScrutinizer05yes, there is indeed a plethora of ways to handle package size19:06
DocScrutinizer05e.g for ssh input, you can define timeouts after which package gets sent anyway, and also you can define termination chars which make package get sent, like CR/NL19:06
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DocScrutinizer05too large chunks are segmented to max transmission size of channel by TCP stack19:08
DocScrutinizer05it's not exactly trivial19:08
DocScrutinizer05see ifconfig|grep MTU19:09
DocScrutinizer05and a lot of other parameters19:09
DocScrutinizer05man socat: >>19:10
DocScrutinizer05       -b<size>19:10
DocScrutinizer05              Sets the data transfer block <size> [size_t].  At most <size> bytes are transferred per step. Default is 8192 bytes.19:10
DocScrutinizer05but now you're at your own, since I'm afk19:11
DocScrutinizer05anyway, read "man socat", and when you're done with that and *understood* all of it, you're a step further to proper testing of g_ether (and actually a step further than I am)19:18
keriook, i've gotten 20MB/s19:20
keriotelling socat to use 32k or 64k as the block size19:21
kerioactually no, it's irrelevant19:21
kerioapparently something is seriously weird19:22
kerion900->pc is 20mb/s19:22
keriopc->n900 is 10mb/s19:22
kerioi'll try with a different pc, so we can rule out os x's funkyness19:22
DocScrutinizer05kerio: WTF are you trying to proove?19:23
kerioi want to see how much data i can push through usb networking19:23
keriohow much data over time, i mean19:23
DocScrutinizer05that's an incomplete question, unless you define the means you use to transfer that data as a part of the answer to find19:24
DocScrutinizer05obviously the amount of data/time is massively depending on the transport and tools and parameters you use19:25
RST38hDoc: Sorry to interrupt this lively conversation, but he is on my /ignore list, if it tells you anything19:25
DocScrutinizer05and the transport, tools, parameters define your error-recovery you get, and a number of other not so irrelevant properties19:26
kerio...wtf, what did i do?19:26
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: hehe19:26
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: anyway, this started just as a way to test libicd-network-usb19:31
DocScrutinizer05mhm19:31
kerioit works fine, apart for the fact that the usb0 interface is kept up even after you disconnect19:32
DocScrutinizer05hmm, it implements a virtual NIC I guess19:33
DocScrutinizer05you have to modprobe -r to remove that NIC, I guess19:33
DocScrutinizer05best indication that you got a virtual NIC is the fact it's using a MAC addr19:34
DocScrutinizer05basically for USB networking MAC are rather meaningless or at least not needed, but since any NIC has a MAC, the USB-networking also has one (actually one per end)19:36
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kerioit does, but i'd still expect the disconnect to do the equivalent of ifconfig usb0 down19:36
DocScrutinizer05why should it?19:36
keriobecause it does the same for every other interface19:38
keriowlan0 goes down, gprs0 goes down19:38
DocScrutinizer05send patches ;-)19:41
DocScrutinizer05btw I don't think wlan0 goes "state:down" just for broken RF connection. It needs action from ICD to make WLAN IF go down (and that seems to fail for me sometimes, which results in WLAN still up for AP that's already miles away)19:43
DocScrutinizer05once or twice I might've encountered same for GPRS roaming19:44
DocScrutinizer05wasn't exactly easy to investigate19:45
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Palikerio, due to that musb working only if some gadget is loaded (no idea why) and charger detection is in musb, some gadget driver is still loaded21:20
Paliso when you disconnect usb cable (from nokia pc suite mode), g_nokia is still loaded21:21
kerioPali: huh?21:21
Paliand this is reason why usb0 is still connected21:21
keriothe phone detects the charging even without a gadget module i think21:21
Palino21:21
Paliyou can try it21:21
kerioPali: connected and up are different things21:21
Palialso for usb host mode some gadget driver must be loaded21:22
keriocat /sys/class/power_supply/bq24150a-0/mode -> "auto (host)"21:22
keriolsmod | grep g_ -> ""21:22
Paliconnect wallcharger21:23
keriooh, it'll stay as host?21:23
kerioi see21:23
Palibtw, g_nokia is composite gadget driver21:24
Paliwhat about adding also file storage component to nokia gadget?21:24
keriojust don't make it necessarily start softupd and phonet-at and i'm cool with it21:24
Paliand we do not need to switch between mass storage & pc suite21:24
Paliproblem is that mass storage kernel code is modular only in upstream kernel21:25
Paliso we need some 3.x for that21:25
keriocan't you just "magically" merge g_file_storage and g_nokia?21:25
Paliand g_file_storage (non composite) was renamed to g_mass_storage (comosite)21:26
kerioi see21:26
Paliyou cannot merge non composite to composite driver21:26
kerioso you'd need to backport g_mass_storage at the very least21:26
Paliyes21:26
keriohmm, look into it and see if you feel like doing it21:26
kerio(if it's even possible at all ofc)21:27
Palibut there can be other problem.... there are a lot of parts which loading g_nokia or g_file_storage driver21:27
Palithen we need to patch every script which loading gadget driver21:27
keriothe UI is a different problem i suppose21:27
Paliyes that stupid usb dialog...21:29
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DocScrutinizer05musb_core eats some 60mA when not in suspend21:37
DocScrutinizer05that's why you want to wakeup musb_core when VBUS gets detected, so you can talk to 1707 PHY via ULPI interface, to detect D+- short21:38
DocScrutinizer05then the latest when VBUS gets removed, you might want to suspend musb_core to save those 60mA it eats21:38
DocScrutinizer05I hope this might shed some light on the problems we face with USB and musb and loading kernel modules and charger detection and whatnot21:39
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lufPali: ping22:30
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Paliluf, pong22:33
lufThe merge request seems ok. BTW do we know nothing else needs the cripled ABI?22:34
Palino idea22:34
Palineeds testing22:34
lufI have to merge it using my local computer or should I just click somewhere?22:35
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Paliluf, git pull from my repo & git push to cssu22:40
Palibut I can do it too22:40
Palievery cssu member can push to cssu repos22:40
lufI know.22:40
lufFeel free to push it. I ack it.22:41
kerioPali: going back to the gadget module thing... technically only things we control should unload/load those modules22:51
keriothe UI when you do mass storage/pc suite - really some scripts, /etc/event.d/bme, possibly a usb host mode script or two22:52
kerioPali: a grep shows that the string "g_file_storage" only appears in a handful of files22:58
kerioosso-usb-mass-storage-{en|dis}able.sh, pcsuite-enable.sh, bme, softupd, testserver (wtf is this?), ke-recv22:59
kerioalso, wtf is g_softupd? and g_zero?23:00
Paliosso-usb-* pcsuite* is in ke-recv23:01
Palibme is going to be replaced23:01
Palisoftupd is server application for flashing23:01
Pali(flasher on n900 is connecting to softupd and sending kernel image to softupd)23:02
kerioPali: ooh, g_zero is what we should be really using when in no mode i think23:02
Palisoftupd is also responsible for emmc flashing23:02
kerioPali: softupd is also launched as a daemon when in pc suite mode23:02
kerioi think to do pc suite stuff23:02
kerioto do stuff with pcsuite/ovisuite i mean23:02
Paliyes, because in pc suite mode, you can flash kernel/mmc23:02
Palialso nolo, xloader & cmt23:03
Palivia Mk II protocol23:03
kerioPali: that makes no sense really23:03
kerioit's a live system23:03
Palirootfs is not possible23:03
Palibut why kernel, nolo & xloader?23:03
Palibecause it does not break anything running23:03
keriohm, g_zero doesn't even negotiate for power actually23:03
Palitestserver is propably server application for phoenix testing & cal access23:03
Paliit is started only in TEST bootmode23:04
Paliso never on normal n90023:04
kerioso i can remove it?23:04
Paliyes23:04
Palig_softupd is gadget for emmc flashing via softupd23:05
Palig_nokia has also g_softupd component23:05
PaliI bet that nokia wanted only zero copy driver without usb networking (which is in g_nokia) so they created stupid g_softupd23:05
Palig_zero is zero gadget driver which doing nothing23:06
Palikerio, testserver is good candidate which will be removed from some possible CSSU fiasco image23:06
Paliit only store space on rootfs23:06
Paliand 99,99% users and non developers did not used it23:07
Palis/non/non nokia/23:07
infobotPali meant: and 99,99% users and non nokia developers did not used it23:07
keriohow do you even enter the TEST bootmode?23:07
kerioDocScrutinizer05: what good is a usb gadget module that doesn't even negotiate the maximum current? :s23:08
Palikerio, legal way only via phoenix23:10
keriois it a special NOLO thing?23:10
Palikerio, other way is to patch 0xFFFF23:10
PaliI think23:10
Palior patching U-Boot23:10
kerioi was going to say that :)23:10
Paliyou need to add test into omap atag bootreason23:11
Palibtw, last uboot has variable where can be sotred bootreson and bootmode23:11
Palithere is NOLO command for booting kernel (used when you want to exit flashing without disconnecting cable)23:11
Paliand also used if you want to boot loaded kernel via USB23:12
Paliand if you change some param from 0 to 1, then it boot into UPDATE mode which is used for flashing eMMC23:12
Paliso I think if I change 0 to 2 or 3 it can enter to LOCAL or TEST mode :-)23:12
Palikerio, or by patching getbootstate23:13
PaliLOCAL & TEST mode is selected from BSI...23:13
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: sorry, I don't know how to answer23:20
DocScrutinizer05((<kerio> how do you even enter the TEST bootmode?)) afaik with a special TEST 'battery' that has a certain special BSI value23:24
kerioi wonder why nokia left all this cruft around, considering that they were trying to save as much space as they could on the rootfs23:25
DocScrutinizer05well, the knowhow became sparse and spread all over the team, nobody really had a comprehensive overview23:26
PaliDocScrutinizer05, getbootstate enter to test mode if there is special BSI23:26
Paliyou are right23:27
DocScrutinizer05I know ;-)23:27
DocScrutinizer05I know about test battery since ~2 years23:27
Palihttps://bazaar.launchpad.net/~pali/+junk/maemo_getbootstate/view/head:/getbootstate.c#L49423:27
PaliRE getbootstate ^^^^23:27
PaliDocScrutinizer05, where did you found test battery??23:28
DocScrutinizer05and there's an explicit test for that somewhere in preinit or sth23:28
Paliit it in getbootstate, see source :-)23:28
DocScrutinizer05iirc stskeeps pointed me to some details about BSI23:28
Palihm, do you know something more about BSI?23:29
DocScrutinizer05yep, the test in preinit is using getbootstate23:29
Paliso is test mode really used in phoenix?23:29
DocScrutinizer05(more BSI) alas nope23:29
DocScrutinizer05it's used in phoenix with service fixture23:30
Palifrom phoenix GUI which I saw, I think that phoenix can write to CAL only from test mode23:30
Palithere is button to boot into normal, test or local mode...23:30
DocScrutinizer05plausible23:30
DocScrutinizer05yep, that changes BSI resistor value23:31
DocScrutinizer05afaik23:31
Paliand only application which doing something with libcal is testserver23:31
Paliand testserver event.d script has line start in testmode only23:31
Paliso then it make sense23:31
DocScrutinizer05o/ bbl ->dinner23:32
DocScrutinizer05ooh one thing: I'm quite sure NOLO also checks for BSI TEST value, and possibly behaves differently when TEST battery detected23:36
DocScrutinizer05and even cmt does, afaik23:36
DocScrutinizer05it seems Nokia is using this scheme on a lot of their phones23:37
DocScrutinizer05after all phoenix isn't N900-specific23:37
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, but NOLO and fiasco yes23:53
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