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| DocScrutinizer05 | just when I was about to just install patterns-opensuse-lxde as that pulls in like 50 other pkgs as dependencies | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yay, Donnie Darko in TV | 00:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | one of the stranger movies I ever saw | 00:18 |
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| Skry | excellent movie | 00:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anybody ready for fun with sftp? | 08:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I have a rather strange bug in KDE | 08:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (maybe not limited to KDE) | 08:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you probably know ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub | 08:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | AIUI it's just needed on targets, not on origin of a ssh/sftp connection | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even there it's called known_hosts | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so obviously there's nothing wrong with `mv id_dsa.pub id_dsa.pub-away` | 08:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sftp://user@host:port still works great, in both konqueror and dolphin | 08:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but!! only once, since then some sneaky magic created a new id_dsa.pub, alas a crippled truncated one, and next connection via sftp:// will fail due to that :-o | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus each time you open a normal ssh connection it spamms that trunkated key for a greeting | 08:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, correction: | 08:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even there it's called authorized_keys | 08:28 |
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| fw190 | DocScrutinizer05: I vanished yesterday as I was on my last legs | 10:56 |
| fw190 | all went well | 10:57 |
| fw190 | LXDE works ok | 10:57 |
| fw190 | I installed patterns-opensuse-lxde and it pulled everything as it should | 10:57 |
| fw190 | thanks for the tips yesterday | 10:58 |
| kerio | fw190: how's lxde? | 11:00 |
| kerio | and have you realized that it's worse than xfce? | 11:00 |
| fw190 | kerio: well it looks like lxde | 11:07 |
| fw190 | newver used xfce | 11:07 |
| kerio | to be fair, the latest xfce is somewhat bad | 11:07 |
| kerio | it used to be good | 11:07 |
| fw190 | everyone is saying that lxde is lighter | 11:07 |
| fw190 | so I stick to it | 11:07 |
| kerio | xfce used to be the "light" DE | 11:08 |
| kerio | then it became heavier | 11:08 |
| fw190 | but comparing with KDE I do not see much speed improvment | 11:08 |
| kerio | well, is KDE slow for you? | 11:08 |
| fw190 | no | 11:08 |
| kerio | :) | 11:09 |
| fw190 | I just have to find the settings which changes from one click to two | 11:10 |
| fw190 | although I'm starting to get used to it | 11:10 |
| fw190 | just found it | 11:20 |
| fw190 | have to say it | 11:20 |
| fw190 | this suse thingy looks better and better to me | 11:20 |
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| freemangordon | merlin1991: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1274218#post1274218 | 12:13 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: I just saw it | 12:14 |
| freemangordon | you'd better disable ipv6 DNS until everyone is on CSSU :D:D:D | 12:14 |
| merlin1991 | ipv6 has been there all the time | 12:14 |
| merlin1991 | I wonder why it fails now | 12:15 |
| freemangordon | hmm, then it is your ISP | 12:15 |
| freemangordon | lemme try on my device | 12:15 |
| freemangordon | well, ping6 fails here as well, but I don't have problems with apt-get update | 12:18 |
| merlin1991 | odd, http://centralops.net/co/Ping.aspx for example works | 12:19 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: in the meantime: | 12:20 |
| freemangordon | http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/develdebs/gcc-4.7.2_fremantle_armel/scratchbox-toolchain-linaro-4.7-2012.09-fremantle-armv7a_1.0.17_i386.deb | 12:20 |
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| merlin1991 | freemangordon: btw what do you get for ping6 ipv6.google.com on your device? | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | network unreachable | 12:21 |
| merlin1991 | also you have 384 dl of the mp so far :D | 12:22 |
| freemangordon | wow | 12:22 |
| int_ua | hey, I just got second N900 ^_^ | 12:23 |
| freemangordon | hmm, not good, i'd better not screw with pulseaudio :D:D:D | 12:23 |
| merlin1991 | int_ua: welcome to the club of madmen who own several n900s :D | 12:23 |
| int_ua | but haven't slept 28 hours) | 12:23 |
| int_ua | see you tomorrow :) | 12:23 |
| merlin1991 | have a nice sleep :) | 12:24 |
| int_ua | thanks :) | 12:24 |
| freemangordon | int_ua: night | 12:24 |
| merlin1991 | freemangordon: do we have dig on the device? | 12:24 |
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| freemangordon | nslookup? | 12:24 |
| freemangordon | not sure for dig | 12:24 |
| merlin1991 | dang dig is so much better :P | 12:25 |
| * merlin1991 currently has no n900 nearby, all 4 of them are ~65 km away from him | 12:25 | |
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| merlin1991 | hm I could drop the ipv6 dns entry on maemo.merlin1991.at | 12:26 |
| merlin1991 | aka AAAA entry | 12:26 |
| freemangordon | merlin1991: need to reboot my PC | 12:33 |
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| merlin1991 | ~lart rndc | 12:34 |
| * infobot installs PocketPC on rndc's PDA | 12:34 | |
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| freemangordon | merlin1991: no idea, but that should be something with bind (or whatever DNS server you use) | 12:37 |
| merlin1991 | well I wonder why his/her n900 decided to query the dns for AAAA instead of A entries | 12:39 |
| merlin1991 | ah wait | 12:39 |
| merlin1991 | afaik I set up ipv6 dns entries on my side, but the guy who hosts the real dns servers had ipv6 disabled on his bind back then | 12:39 |
| kerio | freemangordon pls | 12:47 |
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| merlin1991 | gotta love my university, finally found my course which has a description page that is awesomely emtpy except an entry about some jabber chatroom, so I dl psi try to remember my jabber pw again, and finally logon, to find the chat room empty | 13:27 |
| merlin1991 | yay | 13:27 |
| kerio | yo merlin1991 | 13:38 |
| kerio | can we update connui-home-cellular pls | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yo dawg, heard you like info. So we put info about info into info of your course | 13:39 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: eh is there anyhting new on gitorious? | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yo dawg, heard you like chat... ;-P | 13:40 |
| kerio | merlin1991: the logging fix | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is it complete | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ß | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 13:41 |
| merlin1991 | ah yeah http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/operator-name-cbs-widget/commit/ff96ce3653b9951158badc150cb4c62aec28b1fc | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | still, is it *complete* now? | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | has anybody finally *tested* that ? | 13:42 |
| kerio | tested what? | 13:42 |
| kerio | the whole thing or just that fix? | 13:42 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 takes a huge sip of his coffe, and breathes deep | 13:43 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the fact that/if log files won't appear despite logging off, with random loglines in them | 13:43 |
| merlin1991 | kreio wanna play guinea pig? | 13:44 |
| merlin1991 | s/kreio/kerio/ | 13:44 |
| infobot | merlin1991 meant: kerio wanna play guinea pig? | 13:44 |
| merlin1991 | should use tab instead of typing myself :P | 13:45 |
| kerio | sure, why not | 13:45 |
| * merlin1991 hits the reboot button | 13:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: btw I yesterday spotted something I'd frown on as a pretty evil flaw in maemo boot UX | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fsck gets started without *any* feedback to user about "prepare to watch your device acting_bricked" | 13:46 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: to be fair it's ext3 fsck | 13:47 |
| kerio | it's journaled and stuff | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, my fsck.ext3 takes quite some time here | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | naw, fsck doesn't use journal | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once you need or want fsck, you forget about journal. | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | journal is for not needing fsck at all | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically&afaik | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway my fsck.ext3 here takes dozens of minutes | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on PC | 13:49 |
| * kerio tune2fses his mmcblk0p2 | 13:49 | |
| merlin1991 | hm regarding fucked up course pages, http://ti.tuwien.ac.at/rts/teaching/courses/osue/ is the best so far timeout when trying to access it | 13:49 |
| merlin1991 | why the fuck can't they use the centralized information system, every single stupid course has a link to their "own" homepage that doesn't work most of the time | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, down4me2 | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yo dawg... | 13:51 |
| merlin1991 | and the best thing about it, the semester begins tomorrow, and guess what, the course in question has a reservation for a room on monday | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | errrwut? | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like it's a sane thing | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | surprisingly sane? | 13:52 |
| kerio | tomorrow my courses begin too ^_____^ | 13:52 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: what do you study? | 13:53 |
| kerio | math | 13:53 |
| merlin1991 | ah yeah /me forgot | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: call the Prof on Sunday noon ;-P "Hey Prof, where's the room?" | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that explains some bits | 13:53 |
| merlin1991 | call the prog "sup dwag, I heard you like questions in questions, so what's up with the page and which room would it show?" :D | 13:54 |
| merlin1991 | s/prog/prof/ | 13:54 |
| infobot | merlin1991 meant: call the prof "sup dwag, I heard you like questions in questions, so what's up with the page and which room would it show?" :D | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, that makes more sense than prog ;-) | 13:55 |
| merlin1991 | oh ffs automake madness in my sb again | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: less +/else /etc/event.d/rcS-late | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | waddooyathink? Add some LP5523 machine pattern for notifier LED? | 13:58 |
| merlin1991 | hm what's the right way (tm) to edit symlinks in /etc/alternatives ? | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually postinst does that afaik | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly there's even a scriptie dedicated to that daunting task | 14:03 |
| merlin1991 | seems to be update-alternatives, but it keep claiming that there's no alternative for aclocal | 14:03 |
| kerio | replacing rcS-late will fuck up soooooooooo many things | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: please elaborate | 14:06 |
| kerio | well, it's the place where a lot of system mods live | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what patch is meant for | 14:06 |
| kerio | people with weird swaps, people with strange partitioning... | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if we don't have patch, we still can use sed to tweak whatever sits in /etc/event.d/rcS-late. | 14:07 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: http://cdnm.at/~christian/maemo/cssu/connui-home-cellular/ | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if even that's not feasible or PC, we can wrap fsck.* by a wrapper taking care about proper user-notification | 14:07 |
| merlin1991 | srly why don't people ever use dpkg-divert on packaged scripts they edit? | 14:08 |
| kerio | merlin1991: because they don't know how dpkg works | 14:08 |
| merlin1991 | It's so stupid to go "uh I'm gonna edit this file here and don't think about anything but my immediate gain" | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why don't we just use proper md5sum checks to detect edited config/scrript files and do like all good updaters: install xyfile.new instead of overwriting xyfile unconditionally? | 14:09 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: guess what, apt actually does that | 14:09 |
| kerio | it asks the user | 14:09 |
| kerio | (for config files) | 14:09 |
| kerio | (for modified config files) | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thought as much | 14:10 |
| merlin1991 | 2 reasons, firstly there is no such support for scripts in dpkg | 14:10 |
| merlin1991 | only for "configfiles" and stuff in /etc | 14:10 |
| kerio | "config file modified, install (N)ew, keep (O)ld, show (D)iff, ask (L)ater" | 14:10 |
| merlin1991 | and secondly, because ham! | 14:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~fsck HAM | 14:10 |
| infobot | e2fsck /dev/HAM : warning! filesystem contains dumbasses! | 14:11 |
| kerio | merlin1991: opername.log seems to not appear | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: good | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now please also check if enabling logging will change that | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also check if that silly timestamp got fixed | 14:12 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: you got this fix aswell: http://www.gitorious.org/community-ssu/operator-name-cbs-widget/commit/95ca519c5b29dfb7a7692f19828781ddfcc29d63 | 14:13 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05: which silly timestamp? | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: no comment from your side about general nastiness to start fsck.* and let user stare at moving dots for 'hours'? | 14:13 |
| kerio | merlin1991: the timestamp in the connui logs is 01120930 | 14:14 |
| merlin1991 | eh no n900 so no chance to comment till later this evening | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: the 19112 | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | year | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: (comment) mompls, I pastebin the rcs-late for you | 14:15 |
| * merlin1991 is about to fix the fsckd timestamp | 14:18 | |
| merlin1991 | what's the timestamp log convention? | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/etc/events.d/rcS-late | 14:18 |
| merlin1991 | oh nice, autofsck | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | without any notification to user | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a bug in my book | 14:19 |
| merlin1991 | kerio: did you enable the log and check it? | 14:22 |
| kerio | no | 14:22 |
| merlin1991 | judging from the source the timestamp should have a format of xx.xx.xx xx:xx:xx | 14:22 |
| merlin1991 | though the order on the xx.xx.xx is day month year which imo should be the other way around :P | 14:23 |
| merlin1991 | so we have 3 things for next -testing already, openssl dbg strip, connui-home-cellular logfix + namefix and camera-ui updates | 14:25 |
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| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer05/kerio please test something reagarding camera-ui, set the captured image preview to unlimited, take a pic and the delete it in the preview window | 14:27 |
| merlin1991 | do you get the viewfinder back or a black screen? | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "happy" that I still can test that ;-P | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though, first of all, WTF do I configure the review timing? | 14:30 |
| merlin1991 | there's a wrench symbol somewhere on the side of the screen iirc | 14:30 |
| merlin1991 | or it's one of the buttons on the bottom lef | 14:31 |
| merlin1991 | +t | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas the menu under wrench has no fsckng setting for that | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | got it | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2nd left on bottom left | 14:31 |
| kerio | i get the viewfinder back | 14:32 |
| merlin1991 | good, then mag did compile that one | 14:33 |
| merlin1991 | so the new stuff in camera ui would be launcher support and proper cam directory code | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | video is totally useless | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | slow as molasses | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | takes like 20s to start capture | 14:38 |
| merlin1991 | might be faster with the coming update | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but yes, viewfinder comes back | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | autofocus distance is totally wrong 90% of the times | 14:39 |
| merlin1991 | well that's still the same as with the stock camera | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hitting play button in preview opens mediaplayer. Deleting video file there and then closing mp returns me to preview where I could delete *again* | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | closing preview seems to freeze the whole system for several seconds, until viewfinder re-appears | 14:41 |
| merlin1991 | don't hate so much on our beloved cam :D | 14:41 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: camera-ui in cssu-thumb is much, much faster :3 | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and the worse: it seems to ignore trigger button presses that are shorter than 0.5s | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously trackerd all the time hogs CPU like mad | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while it *should* *just* 'index' the _one_ media file that just got created/deleted, and then STFU again | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (unconfirmed by any means like htop etc!) | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (just cpu load widget constantly red) | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly tracked needs to get suspended during realtime stuff like camera usage | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when you short a rapid sequence, "rapid" like >1pic/s (if that's even possible), you for sure don't need any friggin trackerd hogging system resources for indexing that as well could be done later | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | same when you return from preview to viewfinder | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as long as there's viewfinder visible, trackerd has to go hybernate mode | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | may just store up dbus msgs about media files to examine, for later processing | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but to answer your question: yes, viewfinder comes back... eventually ;-P | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | UX however is like with a 1880's camera XP | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "please don't move!" PFOOOOSH-FLASH <magnesia smoke goes up> | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "please stay! I'm just inserting another plate" | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a "stock" PR1.3 (PK47 or sth, my t900 devel device), turnaround for the sequence >start video capture, stop video capture, review shows up, hit delete in preview, hit "ok", returns to viewfinder, start video capture< is like 5 times faster than on CSSU-T | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also reacts reliably on short trigger button push | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reliably and instantly | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not with 2s delay like nicocam/cssu-t | 15:03 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: cache? | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, this stuff isn't ready for prime time | 15:04 |
| kerio | it's pretty fast here, idk | 15:04 |
| kerio | ...actually you could try it too, you have a n900 with cssu-thumb installed | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just tried on cssu-thumb by mistake, looked all the same like on cssu-t | 15:06 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: is it updated? | 15:07 |
| kerio | nicocam was thumbified recently | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: well, actually cssu-thumb is significantly faster than cssu-t, but still not as fast as stock | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | esp invocation of preview and return to viewfinder after hitting "ok" for delete is still sluggish, compared to stock | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while reaction to trigger button is almost bearable | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | both for starting and stopping capture | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but... could it be that charging is completely fsckdup in cssu-thumb? | 15:12 |
| kerio | D: | 15:14 |
| kerio | why would it be? | 15:14 |
| kerio | bme is the same | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | somehow device been stuck at "USB mode: just charging" in sysmenu. When I click it, the selector AssRage/PCShit pops up. Selecting AssRage gives me another notifier "not possible, storage already in use" | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I plugged and unplugged USB 10 or 15 times before that, and it didn't even recognize | 15:16 |
| kerio | well, maybe the storage is in use | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NB all the above been with USB *detached* | 15:16 |
| kerio | haha | 15:16 |
| kerio | neat | 15:16 |
| kerio | ~n900-full-reset | 15:16 |
| infobot | methinks n900-full-reset is when the user presses the PWRON (power-on) button for 8 seconds and removes the battery in the next 8 seconds, the TPS65950 enters NO SUPPLY state instead of BACKUP state, even if a valid backup battery is present. In such a situation, the backup domain registers are also reset, along with the VRRTC domain registers. | 15:16 |
| kerio | well, ke-recv isn't thumby | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, now after that error-msg I quoted, it's back to normal. I inserted USB and it did "swooooosh" and notifier about charging came up | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess something severely fsckd up in recent KP, regarding fast charger detect | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and related stuff | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | h-e-n had to get over quite some headache due to this abomination of "layering violations" when reading /sys/*/*/charger nukes PHY settings and thus messes up musb-hdrc driver state | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we had "some asshole is trying to probe for charger" klog in original h-e-n kernel. dunno what happened to it | 15:20 |
| kerio | hah | 15:20 |
| kerio | please, tell me that was the actual message | 15:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | verbatim | 15:21 |
| kerio | =D | 15:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should've told a story to devels messing with it (/me glares at pali) | 15:22 |
| kerio | Pali: *glare* | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you MUST NOT probe for D+- short during musb-hdrc has 'allocated' USB to do meaningful stuff like ENUM or data transfer! | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~2119 | 15:23 |
| infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. | 15:23 |
| Pali | new kernel-power has patch which disable that sysfs node charger when host mode is active | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, this probelm isn't hostmode specific | 15:24 |
| Pali | when musb go back to peripheral mode, then charger detection is enabled again | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | welcome Pali :-) | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: iirc musb-hdrc'.ko' initializes PHY as soon as somebody tries to do something over USB, like e.g. enable mass storage mode, or PC-Suite (or hostmode, yes). Any subsequent probing for D+- short nukes those PHY config settings and renders whole USB in an undefined defunct state | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no matter if done via /sys readout, or via direct call to related musc-hdrc function | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (aka kernel-internal) | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the even more funny stuff about that: PHY gets backed up via main bat even during real device powerdown | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so any such mess is relatively sticky, until musb-hdrc takes care to initialize it again the proper way | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and!!! there's NO way to really reliably reset PHY, unlike twl4030 | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only reliable reset is: remove main bat, short + and - battery contacts in device. wait 10 minutes (to be sure) | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if PHY is misconfigured, even flatbatrecover may fail | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since it depends on PHY detecting D+- short and signalling it to bq24150 | 15:32 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why do you need to short + and -? :o | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to discharge buffer capacitors | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are quite some huge cubes on Vbat | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | several 100 uF | 15:32 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: does a working bupbat screw with this, too? | 15:34 |
| kerio | also, do i have a problem if my usb works? | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and there's no *reliable* way to discharge them in a short time, though trying power button during battery removed may help | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, as long as your usb and charging works, no problem | 15:34 |
| kerio | hmm, does this also mean that in case of water damage, you're basically screwed? | 15:34 |
| kerio | if removing the battery still leaves quite a bit of charge | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if however charging doesn't kick in, or device thinks it's connected to PC while in fact it's connected to fastcharger or to nothing at all, odds are this is cause by PHY | 15:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nope, since the reason for battery removal on water incidents is to stop electrolysis which means rapid discharge of buffer capacitors if they actually seen shorts by water | 15:36 |
| kerio | oh, so it basically solves itself | 15:37 |
| kerio | i see | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lemme put it this way: if water shorts your + and -, your capacitors are empty during few seconds | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for buffering PHY 1707 on a intact device however they may last for hours | 15:38 |
| kerio | got it | 15:38 |
| kerio | to reset PHY, i must dunk my device in water | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, kinda | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (disclaimer: all the above is not verified on a normal scientific level, but rather just off top of my head without properly checking each detail) | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which *usually* is just good enough for any RL purpose ;-D | 15:40 |
| kerio | to be honest i don't remember the last time i connected my n900 to my pc when fremantle was booted | 15:41 |
| kerio | only backupmenu/bootmenu | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but don't call me out on it, when it turns out there is some incorrect or fuzzy bit in the whole story | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I *think* I've seen similar lockups on USB with stock kernel | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a known race condition in kernel, with detecting Vbus vs detecting D+- short | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the window for that race might have grown in KP | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | however so far on my daily iroN900 I'm used to an occasional USB charger detect miss, but that's just a simple ignore and gets fixed by un- and re-plugging fastcharger | 15:49 |
| kerio | yeah, i get that too | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this time, on cssu-thumb not even 15 rounds did fix it | 15:49 |
| kerio | anyway, going back to the nicocam thing | 15:50 |
| kerio | what's your installed version for camera-ui? | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | i'm done with testing. Noting to add so far | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what could it be? latest T | 15:51 |
| kerio | 1.1.29.2+0cssu14+thumb0 then? | 15:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as well as cssu-thumb as of when I installed thumb on that other device, a few weeks ago | 15:52 |
| kerio | i don't really remember *when* fmg thumbified camera-ui | 15:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc, I have not even a ssh open to the thumb thingie | 15:52 |
| kerio | he also added maemo-invoker support | 15:52 |
| kerio | and optification | 15:53 |
| kerio | (i think) | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that might help a lot, with switching to and from mediaplayer | 15:53 |
| kerio | hm, he didn't optify it | 15:53 |
| kerio | but it's maemo-invokered | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, have to get some glimpse of TheBigBlueBox aka RL | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 15:54 |
| kerio | watch out, it's dangerous out there | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I watched Monk, I heard the music | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ...cause it's jungle out there, it's jungle out there! | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.magistrix.de/lyrics/Randy Newman/Its-A-Jungle-Out-There-96950.html | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIW69IRODxM | 15:58 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, freemangordon, seems that I found problem | 17:22 |
| freemangordon | Pali: where? | 17:22 |
| Pali | see log | 17:23 |
| Pali | problem is that stupid battery status area plugin cannot handle hal changeset | 17:23 |
| Pali | I changed all calls libhal_changeset_set_property_ to libhal_device_set_property_string | 17:23 |
| Pali | and then status area battery plugin show message "battery is low" | 17:24 |
| freemangordon | Pali: which log, there is a wall of text :) | 17:27 |
| freemangordon | btw why did you change that? | 17:27 |
| freemangordon | do you remember me REing the original bme-addon | 17:27 |
| Pali | freemangordon, find your name in log | 17:27 |
| Pali | freemangordon, I changed it now (only for testing, not in git yet), because statusbar battery plugin not worked | 17:28 |
| Pali | without this change statusbar battery plugin did not show me message "charger disconnected" and message "battery is low" | 17:29 |
| freemangordon | aah, i see | 17:29 |
| freemangordon | Pali: AFAIK bme status plugin waits for dbus calls, though I might be wrong | 17:30 |
| freemangordon | dbus signals even | 17:30 |
| Pali | I'm sending same dbus signals as bme/hald-addon-bme | 17:30 |
| freemangordon | hmm | 17:30 |
| freemangordon | does it work now? | 17:30 |
| Pali | seems that after I changed code to use libhal_device_set_property_string is working... | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: nice :-) | 17:31 |
| Pali | now I'm waiting until battery will be empty :D | 17:31 |
| freemangordon | yeah, great | 17:31 |
| freemangordon | hehe | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we now just wanna know why the other stuff been used or if it really been used at all in original bme*, and why this doesn't work in your RE if it's actually different | 17:32 |
| Pali | freemangordon, in hald-addon-bme README.properties.gz is written that for information about "battery low" is need first to change battery.charge_level.capacity_state to "" and then to new real value | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, there's probably a difference in semantics between libhal_device_set_property_string and libhal_changeset_set_property_ | 17:33 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I didn't do 100% RE replacement (as with VKB) | 17:34 |
| freemangordon | just basic sceleton | 17:34 |
| Pali | so we need to decide when to send this "signal" battery is empty | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah, so that's been an educated guess | 17:34 |
| Pali | original hald-addon-bme sent it more times (you can see that phone show message battery is too low/empty more times...) | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, near miss fair enough then | 17:35 |
| freemangordon | Pali: I think the signal is sent every time voltage goes onder the threshold | 17:35 |
| freemangordon | s/onder/bellow/ | 17:36 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: Pali: I think the signal is sent every time voltage goes bellow the threshold | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, it also has a gate timer, to stop too frequent msgs/signals | 17:37 |
| freemangordon | the other option is to send a signal on every percent down | 17:37 |
| freemangordon | (after we are in low zone) | 17:37 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, now new hald-addon-bme sending empty state (which cause that dsme will turn device off) when EDV1 or EDVF flag in bq27200 is set | 17:37 |
| Pali | it is ok? | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | edv1 iirc, yes | 17:37 |
| freemangordon | do we have enough charge for graceful shutdown? | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | edv1 with some 90s delay, to give user a chance to close stuff | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | edvf immediately | 17:38 |
| Pali | now both edv1 or edvf immedialety turn device off | 17:39 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what do you think about: <freemangordon> the other option is to send a signal on every percent down | 17:39 |
| freemangordon | sounds like the best option to me | 17:40 |
| Pali | and low state is when bq27200 report capacity below 15% | 17:40 |
| Pali | (7% is for edv1) | 17:40 |
| freemangordon | well, so we'll have 7 beeps before shutdown | 17:40 |
| Pali | low state = show notification | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so: when edv1 got hit for >15s, you send a warning "going to power down!" and start timer for next msg that does real teardown. On either exiry of that timer, or on edvf you send "I'm shutting down NOW!" and do that - unless meanwhile charging kicked in or voltage is above edv1 again | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I guess that's exactly what bme does | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (per 1%) | 17:41 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: only charger should preven shutdown once "shutting down" message appears | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, that is what i think too | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, not really. Battery can recover pretty much from a brownout on heavy load | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | then no "shutting down" message :) | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | and TBH I think it is better to shutdown with a slightly more charge, than to run battery flast | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw percentage of charge my be vastly unrelated to actual voltage of cell | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | *flat | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | may* | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | hmm, how precise is remaining percenatge if the battery is not calibrated? | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll think about it during my brinnerunch | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: might be totally off | 17:45 |
| freemangordon | I mean after a couple of discharge cycles | 17:46 |
| freemangordon | so bq has had a chance to measure at least something | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we had OM GTA02 shut down at ~60% real capacity remaining, due to bq27000 miscalibration and shutdown mechanism only looking for percent-charge rather than voltage | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basing shutdown on EDV1/EDVF is sane. Waiting for 0% count down to 0% for warnings isn't | 17:48 |
| freemangordon | I don't think it is a good idea to force calibration only in order to have correct shutdown | 17:48 |
| freemangordon | AIUI that is what Pali does | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'll think about it during my brinnerunch | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 17:48 |
| freemangordon | ~brinnerunch | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dinner+brunch | 17:49 |
| kerio | i say we wait the 10 or so seconds on EDV1 so we can properly calibrate bq27200 | 17:49 |
| freemangordon | you mean auto-calibrate on first battery empty? | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I say we only warn on EDV1, and shut down on EDVF | 17:50 |
| Pali | if edv1 is set, then learning cycle is complete | 17:50 |
| freemangordon | agree | 17:50 |
| freemangordon | Pali: only if you have a full charge AFAIK | 17:50 |
| freemangordon | (at the start of discharge cycle) | 17:50 |
| kerio | Pali: hm? | 17:50 |
| Pali | yes | 17:50 |
| kerio | oh girhgt | 17:50 |
| kerio | *right | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even a short intermediate charging stops learning cycle | 17:51 |
| Pali | I mean that it is ok to turn device off (if learning cycle was active, then after edv1 is complete) | 17:51 |
| freemangordon | well, how is learning syscle activated? | 17:51 |
| freemangordon | *cycle | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | EDVF = End of Discharge Voltage Final. we should take it as that | 17:52 |
| Pali | start charging when edv1 is set and stop charging when battery is charged | 17:52 |
| kerio | freemangordon: VDQ set | 17:52 |
| kerio | aka fully charge | 17:52 |
| Pali | then vdq is set and when edv1 is set again, cycle is complete | 17:53 |
| freemangordon | you mean there is no need SW to take care of it? | 17:53 |
| freemangordon | to set some bit or something? | 17:53 |
| kerio | no | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a valid learning cycle includes: charging to 100% -> VDQ:1. discharge without any intermediate charging or other extrema, until EDV1 is hit | 17:53 |
| kerio | it's just a bq27200 thing | 17:54 |
| freemangordon | and if learning cycle is interrupted, what happens with the calibration? | 17:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | untouched | 17:54 |
| freemangordon | great | 17:54 |
| freemangordon | I don't see any problem then | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | VDQ:0 | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 's no problem | 17:54 |
| kerio | the problem is that you need to wait a handful of seconds below EDV1 voltage | 17:54 |
| kerio | usually it's not doable with bme | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just we shouldn't shut down on EDV1 | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | kerio: no bme there | 17:55 |
| kerio | indeed | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: :nod: | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | Pali: ^^^ | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that per definitionem wwastes 6% of bat capacity | 17:55 |
| kerio | shut down after 60-90s under EDV1 or when you reach EDVF | 17:55 |
| freemangordon | hmm , we'd better just ignore EDV1 | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's what I said | 17:56 |
| freemangordon | and shutdown on EDVF | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, not that :-) | 17:56 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: we should hold enough charge to boot, though | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we start warnings at EDV1 | 17:56 |
| kerio | boot to ACT_DEAD at least | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: that's granted | 17:56 |
| kerio | granted how? | 17:56 |
| kerio | how big is EDVF? | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | edvf still allows device to boot | 17:57 |
| kerio | i see | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hw cutout threshold is waaay lower | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway, cya. I'm going hypoglycemic | 17:58 |
| kerio | eat some food | 17:58 |
| kerio | food is good! | 17:58 |
| kerio | http://youtu.be/g-uLTTT3BPc | 17:58 |
| freemangordon | Pali: so, AIUI -> start battery low beeps on N% (10-15), beep on every % down, ignore EDV1 and shutdown on EDVF | 17:59 |
| Pali | ok | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | BTW we may want to keep the current BME threshol for low warnings | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | or lower it just a bit (2-3 %) | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, increase warning freequency to a timed schedule on EDV1 since bq27200 switches from ~6% to 0% on EDV1 anyway | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | aah, i see | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe I recall wrong | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | read DS please | 18:01 |
| freemangordon | yeah, batt low every 30 seconds should be ok | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or ~jr/bme | 18:01 |
| freemangordon | (once we are at EDV1) | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are some nice logs, with comments | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 18:02 |
| infobot | i heard jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ../bme* | 18:02 |
| freemangordon | Pali: ^^^ | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_discharge_learn_log | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_chargefloat2_log et al | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | study those | 18:03 |
| kerio | 30 seconds? ew | 18:03 |
| kerio | after i got the first warning, i *know* the battery is low | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/batlog.txt.odf | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | make as many as possible of those timing and level parameters configurable, via module parameters or whatever | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so kerio can set that warning frequency to once per day ;-D | 18:10 |
| kerio | omfg i liek configurations | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | also timeout levels for those "90sec stable EDV1 " | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cyacyacyacya | 18:11 |
| kerio | Pali: eventually will you rewrite the statusmenu button to allow for detailed data from bq27k and to choose usb host mode? | 18:12 |
| Pali | kerio, MAG already started rewriting it | 18:12 |
| Pali | I have pending merge request for it, MAG wrote me that he merge it after he commit some changes... | 18:13 |
| kerio | :D | 18:13 |
| kerio | Pali: also, can you make your UI a bit more configurable so we can actually choose the usb speed and/or manually enumerate? | 18:14 |
| Pali | kerio, I have no time for it now... | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is there a way to detect user clicking away a one-line-notifier? | 18:14 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: make it permanent :) | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah!!! | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the idea is to open the permanent requester when user clicks on the bat-low warning | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in that requester you can say "don't warn for this low-power-event again" | 18:16 |
| merlin1991 | a click on notifier discards it | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or set period of warning to something more pleasant for you | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: that's not what I asked | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know that | 18:16 |
| merlin1991 | I'm saying to change that for 1 notifier would be a break of ui | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't suggest to change that | 18:17 |
| kerio | just detect whether the user dismissed it or it was just timeout'd | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I asked "is it detectable that user did it (click it away)" | 18:18 |
| merlin1991 | <DocScrutinizer05> the idea is to open the permanent requester when user clicks on the bat-low warning | 18:18 |
| merlin1991 | thus you're suggesting to change the default behaviour even if not implemented in the notifier | 18:18 |
| merlin1991 | which is inconsistent to the rest of the ui | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, i'll think about that. Maybe you got a pojnt, maybe I don't think it's a good point ;-) | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe I do | 18:19 |
| kerio | we could just make it a bigass system notification | 18:19 |
| kerio | one of the ones in the middle, that you *have* to dismiss | 18:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 goes blackout | 18:20 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | after dealing with pending blackout due to *my* charge reaching EDVF, I retought the notifier thingie and I guess merlin1991 is right. Anything related to powerflow-alarm config etc belongs to a requester popping up after clicking battery button in system menu | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | s/flow/-low/ | 19:20 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer51 meant: after dealing with pending blackout due to *my* charge reaching EDVF, I retought the notifier thingie and I guess merlin1991 is right. Anything related to power-low-alarm config etc belongs to a requester popping up after clicking battery button in system... | 19:20 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer51: actually, config belongs in Settings | 19:21 |
| kerio | the battery button in the system menu is for live stuff | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I however already wanna come up with another weird idea tweaking UI: the battery icon as such is BS for low battery | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: exactly what I meant | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | snoozing a bat-low-alarm *is* a live thing | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bat icon is utter crap for detecting change of 1 row of pixels from green to red. I suggest to change the iconset and animation | 19:24 |
| Pali | hald-addon-bme changes pushed to git on gitorious | 19:26 |
| kerio | D: | 19:28 |
| kerio | don't do this to me | 19:28 |
| kerio | i'm not at home tomorrow | 19:28 |
| kerio | i really want to try it, but i know i mustn't | 19:28 |
| Pali | see http://pastebin.com/mppAFAKd | 19:31 |
| Pali | EDVF was set when voltage was only 3021 | 19:32 |
| Pali | it is good idea to wait for EDVF? | 19:32 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer51, see ^^^ | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | according to bq27200 DS this is incorrect behaviour/voltage | 19:33 |
| kerio | D: | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | EDV1 set at 3239mV in that log | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | EDVF at 30nn mV is correect and sane | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | device is meant to shut down immeidiately though gracefully at tripping EDVF | 19:39 |
| kerio | is "LOW" edvf? | 19:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I guess | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not my version of script | 19:42 |
| kerio | ~shadowjk | 19:42 |
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| kerio | hrmpf | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hrmpf? | 19:42 |
| kerio | i thought i added that factoid | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you won't add a nick as factoid, will you? | 19:43 |
| kerio | of course | 19:43 |
| kerio | ~pali | 19:43 |
| infobot | i heard pali is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ | 19:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | whatever it is you're after, maybe you find it next to | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~jrtools | 19:44 |
| infobot | i guess jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 19:44 |
| kerio | i wanted the url to bq27200.sh | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ^^^^ | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ../jrbme/ | 19:45 |
| kerio | oic | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and of course at maemo.cloud-7.de | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maemo/patches'n'tools/ or sth like that | 19:49 |
| kerio | hehe, http://maemo.cloud-7.de/Aegis-kills-device.jpg | 19:49 |
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