IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Saturday, 2012-09-15

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freemangordonPali: your formula to calculate the voltage in rx51_battery is U=(10000*Uraw)/170512:41
freemangordonor simila, but that should do the job too12:42
freemangordonmerlin1991: would you delete clutter from the repo12:42
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Palifreemangordon, ok12:48
Palifreemangordon, what is state of 720p video playback?12:49
Paliis your patched gstdsp from maemo6 branch working also without new dsp codecs?12:49
freemangordonPali: no change, though I have to release a slightly new version of gstdsp12:50
freemangordonPali: it has been wotking for an year or so12:50
Paliok12:50
freemangordonPali: aah, sorry12:50
freemangordonno, i does not work iirc12:50
Paliso 720p video playback needs: kernel-feature-720p, new gst-dsp, ti dsp baseimage & codecs, right?12:51
freemangordonactually it depends on how it is built12:51
freemangordonPali: yep12:51
freemangordonand removal of openmax codecs12:51
keriowhat does that entail?12:51
kerio(the uninstallation of openmax)12:52
PaliI will create one deb package which will have all these binaries12:52
freemangordonit allows gstreamer to use gst-dsp12:52
freemangordonPali: don't put gst-dsp in it12:52
keriowait, so gst-dsp is an openmax replacement?12:52
PaliI think nobody care about publishing nokia ti codecs12:52
* kerio doesn't get it12:52
Palifreemangoron, why not put gst-dsp?12:52
freemangordonit has its own packaging. and I was in a aprocess of creating gst-dsp version which works with both stock and harmattan codecs12:53
Paliproblem with uninstalling openmax could be solved that deb package will move or dpkg-divert that openmax library12:53
freemangordondidn't finished it, but still, I was planning to return to gst-dsp once new -thumb is out12:53
Palifreemangordon, ok12:53
kerioPali: hmm, can .install files tell HAM to remove a certain package?12:54
freemangordonPali: we should provide openmax replacement12:54
Palifreemangordon, it is possible to have installed both old maemo and new harmattan TI codecs?12:54
Palie.g when you will boot non 720p kernel, it will fallback to normal...12:54
freemangordonPali: hmm, not sure12:55
Palifreemangorodon, openmax replacement - do you mean to fix openmax library or create dummy package?12:55
freemangordonas I don't know whether /lib/dsp is  not hardcoded12:56
freemangordondummy12:56
Paliok, dummy empty package12:56
freemangordonthe fix is in a different component12:56
freemangordonJPEG codec12:56
Palinokia released new version of TI dsp codecs, on tmo post is still used old12:57
freemangordonPali: lemme finish with thumb stuff, i'll be back to 720p12:57
Palinew version not working?12:57
Paliok12:57
freemangordonPali: iirc the newer version is worse12:57
Paliok12:57
freemangordonPali: in the meanwhile you may want to merge pselect() patch12:57
Palialready in kp git tree12:58
freemangordonand rename kernel-cssu to kernel ;)12:58
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freemangordonPali: BTW did you pass your exams?12:58
Palinot all yet12:59
Palibut calculus and graph therory yes :-)12:59
freemangordongreat12:59
Paliimplicit function theorem :D12:59
freemangordonwhatever it is :D:D:D13:00
Palido not ask, what it is :-)13:01
freemangordoni won't :)13:01
* freemangordon is out of cigarretes, is going to bye some13:02
freemangordonmerlin1991: ping13:11
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keriofreemangordon: the basis of algebraic geometry13:30
kerioand also a really, really ugly theorem13:30
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fw190freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both?13:38
keriofw190: you should wait13:41
kerioare you on the current thumb? if so, you just flat-out can't do anything until fmg fixes a couple of things13:41
kerioer, sorry13:41
kerioare you on the current testing?13:42
kerioin fact, i'd disable the thumb repo before you install anything from it13:43
kerioit's in a weird state right now13:43
fw190kerio: hi, I'm on latest T. thumb not installed13:45
keriothen you can't install thumb right now13:45
keriofmg is working on the appropriate thumb release13:46
keriothe one that matches the testing one13:46
fw190ok13:46
keriohave you installed anything from the thumb repo'13:46
kerio?13:46
fw190but when it is out should I turn off T repo and turn on thumb repo or have both13:46
fw190my phone is fresh after reflash so nothing with thumb13:47
kerioyou should follow the instructions on the TMO post :P13:47
keriobut no, community-thumb is a repo that works in addition to community-testing13:47
fw190true. I did it lat time but my questions came with the new repos added automaticallt13:48
kerioand cssu-th works by recompiling the cssu-testing packages and giving them a version that puts them just slightly ahead of their non-thumb counterpart13:48
keriofw190: the .install file adds the community-testing and community-thumb repos13:50
keriothose should be kept enabled13:50
fw190thanks for the tips. got to go by13:50
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Palihald-addon-bme now working fine, it also handle unloading driver bq2415x_charger14:12
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freemangordonPali: great14:40
freemangordonmerlin1991: ping14:40
merlin1991freemangordon: pong14:40
freemangordonmerlin1991: could you clear clutter and gtk from the repo?14:40
merlin1991on my way :)14:40
freemangordonok :)14:40
merlin1991freemangordon: done14:42
freemangordon10x14:43
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kerioPali: hm, why would one unload that module?15:03
DocScrutinizer05wait!! dafaq! indeed there's thumb repo on everybody now???15:13
* DocScrutinizer05 is not happy about that15:13
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: what?15:13
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: disabled by default15:13
freemangordonwhy?15:13
DocScrutinizer05my cssu-t has thumb repo now15:13
freemangordonaah, disabled, ok15:13
keriowat?15:14
DocScrutinizer05invitation to mess up stuff for everybody, see above15:14
keriomerlin1991, freemangordon: oh you15:14
merlin1991kerio: actually Pali did that ;)15:14
kerioPali: oh you15:14
freemangordonkerio: naah, not me :P15:14
DocScrutinizer05~lart Pali15:15
* infobot beats Pali over the head with a microkernel15:15
kerioit's the new community-ssu-enabler?15:15
merlin1991kerio: yes15:15
kerioluckily i don't have it =D15:15
Palikerio, before some commited patched, hald-addon-bme freezed when /sys/class/power_suppy/bqsomething was dissappeared15:15
keriooh, i see15:15
Paliand eat 100% of CPU15:15
freemangordonluckily you will have it today or tomorrow15:15
DocScrutinizer05I get tired to fire [general notices]15:16
DocScrutinizer05yet...15:16
Palinew cssu-enabler has all cssu repositories in system15:17
DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] do **NOT** enable cssu-thumb catalog in HAM unless you **lknow* what you're doing!!15:17
* kerio grabs the popcorn15:17
Palionly those are enabled which was enabled before installing cssu-enabler15:17
freemangordonmakes sense15:17
DocScrutinizer05and that's sane how?15:17
DocScrutinizer05dafaq!15:17
kerioPali: are they installed with the proper domain?15:18
freemangordonyou can easily enable -devel anf -thumb repos if you're brave15:18
Palie.g when you click on CSSU install icon on wiki page, it enable stable or testing repo (depnds on click) and then install enabler15:18
DocScrutinizer05[2012-09-15 12:38:23] <fw190> freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both?[2012-09-15 12:38:23] <fw190> freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both?15:18
Palideb postinst script will see which repos was enabled, remove old repos and install new domain into system (+ enable enabled repos)15:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I was not aware of the change, will update thumb thread on TMO as soon as I am ready with the new update15:19
DocScrutinizer05~spank pali15:19
* infobot bends pali over his knee and tatoos 'ibot' on pali's pasty white buttocks.15:19
merlin1991Pali: we should make the domain stuff into seperate packages (stable thum testing devel) and jsut have the enabler depend on 1 | 2 | 3 | 415:20
DocScrutinizer05which other new catalogs are sneaked in to user's catalog setup?15:23
merlin1991stable and -devel15:23
DocScrutinizer05WHICH -devel??15:24
merlin1991cssu :D15:24
kerio:D15:24
freemangordonhehe15:24
* kerio grabs more popcorn15:24
DocScrutinizer05~lart merlin1991 for offense against non-ambiguity law15:24
* infobot sends a legion of lawyers after merlin1991's head for offense against non-ambiguity law15:24
kerioPali: is there a way to add the correct domain info without actually adding the repo?15:25
freemangordonmerlin1991: would you delete hildonfm2, tinymail, modest15:25
* DocScrutinizer05 sneezes and swears and curses maemo.org15:27
DocScrutinizer05FUUUUUCK15:27
DocScrutinizer05w.mo.o stalls after loading 50% of page15:27
merlin1991freemangordon: done15:28
freemangordon10x15:28
keriofreemangordon: to be sure - libgtk2.0-0, libgtk2.0-bin and libgtk2.0-common, right?15:28
freemangordonyep15:28
* DocScrutinizer05 gets *really* grumpy15:29
kerioheh, dpkg is spewing warnings about package downgrades15:29
freemangordonyeah15:29
keriothe gtk version is actually the same, right?15:30
kerioi cba to reboot15:30
freemangordonyep, recompiled with 4.7.215:30
* DocScrutinizer05 searches something to kick and beat a bit15:32
DocScrutinizer05luckily I have no pets15:32
kerioyou have lots of n900s15:34
Palikerio, yes you can add domain info (name, gpg key) without repository info (name, url, ...)15:35
freemangordonanyone willing to make a .dep providing kernel-feature-errata-workaround? so -thumb repo to be usable in SB.15:35
kerioPali: yeah but does the new repo work as intended if you add it later, manually?15:36
Paliyes15:36
kerioor does it count as a custom repo?15:36
kerioneat15:36
Palidomains is in other files15:36
Palirepository (catalogues) are separate files15:36
merlin1991freemangordon: that's easy :D15:36
keriothen maybe the repos shouldn't've been added?15:37
Paliin catalogue file you specify, domain id, human name, deb url, enabled/disabled by default...15:37
Paliand in domain file you specify: domain id and gpg keys15:37
Paliand trust level15:37
Palicommunity repositories have higher trust level as nokias, so we can update system packages15:38
freemangordonmerlin1991: yes, i know :)15:38
PaliDocScrutinizer05, this change comes from commit 2012-06-28 00:47:06...15:39
kerioPali: yeah but does manually adding the repo work, afterwards?15:40
keriocan you specify the domain id from a .install file?15:40
PaliI do not know15:40
Palimaybe not15:41
kerioDocScrutinizer05: to be fair adding the repos, disabled by default, sounds like the only sensible option15:41
Paliso If you install cssu stable, you will not be enable to update to cssu devel without hacks again15:41
Palibecause HAM disable updating cssu-enabler package15:41
Paliwhich comes from "trusted" repository15:42
DocScrutinizer05DAFAQ15:42
kerioDocScrutinizer05: HAM is weird as fuck15:44
DocScrutinizer05no, cssu devels are weird as fuck15:44
kerioPali: can't we just enable the HAM hidden settings that enable domain transfers without bitching?15:44
DocScrutinizer05you DARE messing with my catalog settings? for no good reason??15:45
DocScrutinizer05I'm NOT amused15:45
kerio[ ] Ignore packages from wrong domains   [X] Ignore the third party packages policy for SSU15:46
DocScrutinizer05Why The Fuck would I want cssu-thumb repo in my catalog list?????????????????????????15:47
DocScrutinizer05if i'd want it, don't you think I'd be well capable to add it in HAM? or at *very least* be able to click a fucking .install file?15:48
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: simply no15:48
kerioDocScrutinizer05: not really, it needs to be in the correct domain in HAM15:49
DocScrutinizer05ooh? Thanks!!! For whatever that "no2 means15:49
DocScrutinizer05:-((15:49
kerioHAM doesn't allow you to add a repo as a system repo15:49
kerioyou need to do that by modifying the domain and catalog list15:49
keriothey're xml files15:49
DocScrutinizer05so WHAT??15:49
DocScrutinizer05does that mean you messed it up and now you found a way to deal with that?15:50
Paliif you want to update system packages from repo R, R must be trusted in system15:51
Paliinstall files cannot add trusted repositories15:51
DocScrutinizer05again15:51
DocScrutinizer05Why The Fuck would I want cssu-thumb repo in my catalog list?????????????????????????15:51
keriobecause it's one of the catalogues that your HAM trusts15:51
DocScrutinizer05NOOO SIR!15:52
kerioyep15:52
merlin1991it's disabled, it has no effect, it's like an installed pub key you trust15:52
merlin1991fs15:52
merlin1991s/f/ff/15:52
infobotmerlin1991 meant: ffs15:52
DocScrutinizer05then I have to say I'm sorry I have to kill HAM and the one who sneaked it into my system, cause *I* *DONT* trust cssu-thumb15:52
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: I'm not sure if tolling or whatever, but it is *DISABLED* IT WILL NOT FUCKING TOUCH YOUR SYSTEM UNLESS YOU STUPIDLY ENABLE IT YOURSELF15:53
kerio*trolling15:53
DocScrutinizer05GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR15:53
DocScrutinizer05[2012-09-15 14:18:31] <DocScrutinizer05> [2012-09-15 12:38:23] <fw190> freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both?[2012-09-15 12:38:23]15:53
DocScrutinizer05and NO I DON'T WANT THAT REPO, even disabled I DONT WANT IT!!!15:54
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hm, is it removable?15:54
freemangordonthen delete it15:54
merlin1991freemangordon: it isn#t deleteable15:54
merlin1991thanks to trust level15:54
merlin1991also15:54
freemangordonhmm15:54
* merlin1991 suggests to let go of the caps key15:54
keriohmm, why do we need the trusted/nontrusted separation again?15:55
kerio(freemangordon: "modest" downgraded, "libtinymail*" and "libhildonfm2" upgraded)15:56
freemangordonkerio: do you keet the complete list?15:57
freemangordon*keep15:57
keriofreemangordon: well, this channel is logged :)15:57
keriofreemangordon: anyway, your new modest is outdated15:57
keriothe current modest in testing is 3.90.7-11.2, you're pushing the same as the old thumb one, 3.90.7-11.115:58
freemangordonkerio: hmm, my bad the15:58
freemangordon*then15:58
freemangordonI will waise the version15:58
freemangordonfuck :D15:58
freemangordon*raise15:58
keriofreemangordon: well, maybe there's actually an update?15:58
DocScrutinizer05there's no fucking sane reason whatsoever to ship cssu-thumb repo with cssu-t upgrade. NONE. If cssu-thumb needs some special quirks to enable the repo in HAM then I suggest you ship that with cssu-thumb, NOT with cssu-t15:59
keriofreemangordon: yep, modest and tinymail are updated in the latest cssu-testing15:59
DocScrutinizer05but again, fine!! damage done15:59
freemangordonkerio: I think there is only a version raised, but still15:59
keriomodest Enabled horizontal scrolling in settings dialog.16:00
freemangordonok, ok16:00
merlin1991freemangordon: modest has a fix fo... kerio was faster16:00
keriotinymail    Fixed invalid/NULL pointer in get_folder_status, prevent heap corruption in list.16:00
freemangordonthat's me ;)16:00
freemangordoni know that fix, it is already int -thumb16:00
keriooh ok, then just match the versions16:01
freemangordonyep16:01
keriobut if you have to recompile again, get the same sources16:01
DocScrutinizer05MEH, I'm pondering to declare CSSU as having entered fsckedup state again, as it last did around some 16 months or so ago, and just roll back and leave it that way16:01
kerioDocScrutinizer05: a lesson is learned but the damage is irreversible16:01
merlin1991kerio: nah we can ship a new enabler update16:02
kerioDocScrutinizer05: http://www.alessonislearned.com/ it's a really nice webcomic :)16:02
freemangordonkerio: new modest is there16:09
keriofreemangordon: are you sure all the changes are there?16:12
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freemangordoni did git merge master16:13
keriok16:13
keriofreemangordon: libtinymail has the same problem16:13
freemangordonmerlin1991: wuould you push your local changes to tinymail :P16:15
merlin1991freemangordon: ah yeah I'll don in a minute16:15
merlin1991pushed16:18
keriomerlin1991: right now, is there something in community-devel that's not in community-testing?16:21
merlin1991kerio: that was about git not the repos16:21
keriono, my question is unrelated16:21
merlin1991possibly, I don't control community-devel16:21
keriomerlin1991: ok, there's nothing that i have installed16:23
freemangordonit there a way to tell apt-get to ignore dependencies?16:25
merlin1991you can tell dpkg but apt-get is foobar after that16:26
keriomerlin1991: no it's not16:26
kerioit just complains a whole lot16:26
kerio:)16:27
freemangordonwell, what is the easiest way to create a empty package then :D16:27
merlin1991mkdir myawesomefaker-0.1 && cd myawesomefaker-0.1 && dh_make && vi debian/control && dgpk-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc16:28
freemangordonthanks16:28
DocScrutinizer05kerio: yes it is! apt will *only* complain and refuse to do anything else. That's my definition of fubar16:36
kerioDocScrutinizer05: fubar means fucked up beyond all repair16:36
kerio"apt-get install -f" is meant to repair16:37
kerioclearly, it's not beyond repair16:37
DocScrutinizer05it doesn't repair, though16:37
kerioit tries, at least16:37
kerio-f, --fix-broken attempt to correct a system with broken dependencies in place16:39
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I suggest you care about cssu from now on, your rationale and mindset seems just appropriate16:39
kerionot sure if serious...16:40
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* DocScrutinizer05 waits for kerio suggesting to rename cssu-testing to cssu-tried16:41
kerioor maybe cssu-tested16:42
kerioit's much more encouraging16:42
keriowe should have cssu-tested, cssu-testing and cssu-notyettested16:42
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DocScrutinizer05obviously cssu-t is cssu-notatalltestedyet16:45
kerioDocScrutinizer05: to be fair you're the one complaining hard about something in cssu-*testing*16:45
kerioi mean, it's fixable16:46
DocScrutinizer05to be fair I'll let you know that your rationale makes me spit my coffee over my keyboard16:46
keriois it one of those crappy flexible plastic keyboard?16:47
keriobecause if not, i suggest you immediately detach it and wash it under purified water16:47
DocScrutinizer05kerio: if you haven't noticed yet, I'm severely pissed by you and others here obviously suggesting to throw unreviewed untested even undiscussed changes into cssu-testing to see what happens, then wait for complaints coming in and ponder if you care at all and eventually fix some of the stuff. And thus you might imagine how much I care about your suggestions16:50
kerioi suggested jack shit16:50
kerioif i had to suggest, i would've suggested cssu-devel as a ground for that16:51
kerioand afaik community-ssu-enabler was updated there first16:51
kerioeither nobody tested it, or nobody thought it was a problem16:52
freemangordonmerlin1991: qt-mobility needs to be purged16:53
freemangordonkerio: new tinymail uploadad16:53
kerioDocScrutinizer05: where was *your* testing?16:54
kerioyou have 5 n900s, right?16:54
merlin1991removed16:55
freemangordon10x16:55
freemangordonthe fuch, lots of packages reamining to be build :(16:55
freemangordonI don;t think i will make it today16:56
DocScrutinizer05kerio: no sir, you're not going to accuse me for not taking care about testing stuff. Please go take your shit elsewhere. If Pali introduces changes without even discussing them here, I'm not going to hunt for those changes to spot them and test them16:57
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I wrote more times about these changes16:58
Palialso see commit date16:58
DocScrutinizer05please pont me to the quote where you said "cssu-t catalog list will include amndatory cssu-thumb repo now"16:59
DocScrutinizer05MEH16:59
* kerio has no greppable logs17:00
kerioDocScrutinizer05: and this is where the process of "devs get some testers for themselves and then report back" for "critical" packages17:01
kerio*fails17:02
freemangordonmerlin1991: libxml too17:03
freemangordonkerio: would you test libxml for me(once it is uploaded)17:04
gregoafreemangordon: you can use equivs for creating empty packages17:04
keriofreemangordon: how?17:05
freemangordonkerio: install it and reboot, if nothing is broken then test passed :D.17:05
freemangordongregoa: thanks17:05
kerioperfect17:05
freemangordonkerio: it is just a version change17:05
freemangordonfrom - to +17:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i don't even know, does CSSU have a "process"?17:07
freemangordonmerlin1991: libcurl too17:07
merlin1991done17:08
keriofreemangordon: downgradan'17:18
DocScrutinizer05kerio: the process been (in good old times when that worked and everybody in here understood) ## a) devel/maintainer creates a patched or new package, comes here (and maybe to ML) to introduce and explain it in all its aspects, discuss the concept and architecture and possible problems or improvements it might need ## b) maintainer tests on his own device against standard install of system the pkg is meant for, and usually keeps the17:27
DocScrutinizer05inner circle public updated about his progress, changes to concept, and thoughts/plans ## c) maintainer publishes his work either via own private repo or via tarball on tmo, and finds some (usually at least 6) testers either in tmo or here that do b) in their domain for him ## d) maintainer collects feedback (maybe goes back to a) when something turned out to need more work) and comes here to present his testing process results to17:27
DocScrutinizer05cssu-* maintainers, on which occasion the cssu-maintainers plus other persons with merit decide by acclamation if the pkg is fit for inclusion to testing (implies that the pkg is considered free of known bugs and *completely* tested by pkg maintainer and the half dozen testers)17:27
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nzeroxhey guys, i have ssu-stable installed, is it possible to update to testing?17:28
DocScrutinizer05lately we got cssu-devel as an alternative to tarball on tmo and private repo, in c)17:28
DocScrutinizer05except cssu-thumb which is fmg's own playground and similar to cssu-devel17:29
DocScrutinizer05kerio: was it this you asked for?17:29
merlin1991nzerox: yes, you have to add the -testing repo to ham and update17:30
freemangordonmerlin1991: microb-engine and xserver are (hopefully) the last packages that need cleanup17:30
nzeroxmerlin1991: will the testing and stable conflict, or will stable be removed?17:30
DocScrutinizer05nzerox: cssu-stable is a subset of cssu-testing17:31
merlin1991done17:31
nzeroxmerlin1991: cool, so its as simple as going to the ssh sit and clicking the testing link17:32
nzeroxmerlin1991: thank you17:32
DocScrutinizer05nzerox: so basically you may (dunno if "can", since last bright "improvement" to HAM/cssu-enabler) remove the cssu-stable repo when you add cssu-testing17:33
nzeroxDocScrutinizer05: yeah i think i can turn of the catalog17:35
nzeroxDocScrutinizer05: is that what you mean?17:35
DocScrutinizer05nzerox: anyway do a proper BM backup prior to that upgrade, since it's the only feasible way to roll back from cssu-testing to cssu-stable. Just in case17:35
DocScrutinizer05I meant you can remove the catalog, you don't need it anymore17:36
nzeroxi'm just playing around with it, i'll reflash if i have problems :)17:37
DocScrutinizer05and you MUSTN'T enable cssu-thumb catalog, or your system will become prone to frequent segfaults unless you installed kernel with thumb-fix17:37
nzeroxthanks guys17:37
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: stop talking bullshit, -thumb -mp installs the required kernel17:38
DocScrutinizer05haha great, so you think enabling cssu-thumb will simply upgrade MP and pull in kernel?17:39
freemangordonexactly that will happen (once the new update is out)17:39
freemangordonthat is a part of Depends: kernel-cssu-flasher ( = 1:2.6.28-10cssu3 ) | kernel-power-flasher ( >= 1:2.6.28-10power51r1 )17:39
DocScrutinizer05I don't see that happen the next few weeks, in any safe manner. Since installation of kernel is still a risky operation in my book, that has quite some potential to break stuff like uBoot, intentional powerkernel revisions kept for kernel, wtc17:41
DocScrutinizer05etc*17:41
freemangordonwhile that *MIGHT* be true, it is a tottaly different beer from "<DocScrutinizer05> and you MUSTN'T enable cssu-thumb catalog, or your system will become prone to frequent segfaults unless you installed kernel with thumb-fix"17:42
DocScrutinizer05ooh, I thought you said >>"...(once the new update is out)"<<17:43
freemangordonwell, right now the repo is inconsistent so noone can install -thumb by using HAM fapman or whatever17:43
freemangordonwill be ok in half an hour though17:44
* DocScrutinizer05 starts to think this hasn't been an accidental fsckup, but rather a carefully crafted yet half-baked plot to pull users to thumb without even asking them17:44
DocScrutinizer05since disabling cssu-thumb catalog will NOT roll back to clean cssu-testing17:45
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DocScrutinizer05[2012-09-15 12:38:23] <fw190> freemangordon: at the moment I'm on latest T. It brought the thumb repo in HAM. to install thumb should I turn off T and turn on Thumb or have both?17:46
DocScrutinizer05other users might not even know wtf cssu-thumb *is*17:47
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: are you trying to put me in a position to prove my sister is not a whore?17:48
freemangordonI already told you I was not aware of that change17:49
freemangordonno matter if I like it or not17:49
DocScrutinizer05sorry, my english lacks this phrase17:49
freemangordonwell, it means " once it is believed your sister is a whore, go and prove you don't have a sister"17:50
freemangordonanyway17:50
DocScrutinizer05i'm just stating that cssu-testing users are now just 3 clicks - without proper warning - away from moving to thumb irreversably17:51
freemangordonyes, I see, maybe a good idea to issue a warning17:51
freemangordonmerlin1991: ^^^17:51
merlin1991irreersably is invalid aswell17:51
DocScrutinizer05in my book that stinks17:51
merlin1991there is uninstaller now17:51
DocScrutinizer05LOL oh yeah17:52
freemangordonmerlin1991: not sure what will happen with the kernel though17:52
DocScrutinizer05surely tested like hell for rolling back from thumb to testing17:52
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it will roll back to stock PR1.317:53
freemangordonnot to -testing17:53
DocScrutinizer05see?17:53
freemangordonsee what?17:53
DocScrutinizer05probably exactly what users will want to do, after accidentally scooped in to thumb17:53
merlin1991go and accidentally enable an apt catalogue17:54
merlin1991in my book that's downright retarded17:54
DocScrutinizer05hahahahaha17:54
freemangordonno need another paste17:54
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: yeah, you seem to get my thinking17:55
kerioenabling repos and then blindly upgrading is retarded17:55
kerioBUT17:55
keriousers *are* retards17:55
freemangordonmerlin1991: I still think a warning on TMO should be issued17:55
kerioto be fair cssu-thumb and cssu-devel aren't even proper cssu projects17:55
DocScrutinizer05<joerandom> Why the fsck does cssu-testing even ship with that catalog, when I'm not supposed to enable it?17:56
freemangordonkerio: how do you decide that?17:56
freemangordonwhat is your criteria for "proper cssu project"?17:56
keriocurl wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | grep thumb17:57
kerioto be fair it gives out three lines, but it's because <div class="thumb tnone">17:57
DocScrutinizer05e.g a wiki frontpage with explanations and install procedure and one-click install17:57
freemangordonsee :P17:57
DocScrutinizer05and with proper warning about all possible pitfalls17:58
kerioreasking a question that i already asked but was left unanswered: do we really need the distinction between trusted repo and nontrusted repo?17:58
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: well, there is TMO thread with that. yes, wiki is a better place, feel free to write the article17:58
DocScrutinizer05for thumb? dream on17:59
keriofreemangordon: the issue is that now the repo is something that just happens to be shipped with the other cssu stuff17:59
freemangordonkerio: I know, not saying it is a good thing17:59
freemangordonI told you, I was not aware of that change, so don't argue with me about the possible implications18:00
keriothe change was done, in good faith, by Pali18:00
freemangordonthough on the other hand it is very good PR to have that catalog18:00
keriobecause community-ssu-enabler doesn't have the old kludgy workaround for domain changes18:00
DocScrutinizer05kerio: see? ^^^ Stop blaming *me* for not being aware of them and thus not testing them18:00
kerioand so, without adding your repo to the trusted repo list, you can't ship upgrades to system binaries18:01
kerioor something18:01
keriowhich brings us back to my question: do we really need the trusted/nontrusted division for repos in HAM?18:01
DocScrutinizer05and kerio: see? ^^^ that's why the "procedure" I sketched above been in place in the better old times18:01
kerioadding trusted repos is a biatch18:03
freemangordonkerio: the "PR" point was: there is high demand for moving the whole CSSU to thumb, thus including -thumb repo in HAM brings good PR18:03
freemangordon(if we ignore doc's rants)18:04
keriofreemangordon: yes, but saying that will enrage doc18:04
keriorightfully so!18:04
DocScrutinizer05:-x18:04
keriofreemangordon: now look at what you've done! :(18:04
kerioanyway, changing a dude's kernel is something that no automated process should do18:05
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I just deleted a line with "sister" in it18:05
keriohaha18:05
freemangordonkerio: every Nokia PR did exactly that, flasheed a new kernel18:05
DocScrutinizer05ooh, so you think cssu could try to do worse than Nokia? sound rationale18:06
freemangordonwhy worse? continue what Nokia was doing :P18:07
DocScrutinizer05so THE FUCK go and TEST your shit same way Nokia did! but wait... you outright denied they ever did, no?18:07
keriofreemangordon: besides, i'm not sure that installing thumb packages together with the kernel is a sound idea anyway18:07
freemangordonkerio: why?18:08
keriobecause then you have thumby binaries on a non-thumby kernel, until you reboot18:08
merlin1991kerio: that's why you use fsckd ham for system upgrades18:08
freemangordonkerio: that is what HAM does ;)18:08
merlin1991it shuts down non upgrade shit18:08
merlin1991upgrades18:08
merlin1991reboots18:08
keriomerlin1991: we can't know if the upgrade shit will launch binaries18:09
keriopreinst/postinst?18:09
freemangordonof course we can18:09
freemangordonbecause we provide them18:09
freemangordon(.postinst scripts)18:09
freemangordonand stuff like that18:09
merlin1991anyway I'll split the catalogues out of the enabler packge and will provdie the upgrade asap18:10
DocScrutinizer05kerio: nah, deadend argument. It won't create real problems18:10
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: now THAT is a nice thing to read/hear18:11
keriomerlin1991: not all of them, though18:11
merlin1991all of them18:12
* kerio watches as CSSU suddenly becomes nonworking18:12
DocScrutinizer05so i'll try to chill and go for a more reasonable way of argumenting: cssu-thumb repo should come with dedicated cssu-thumb-enabler like cssu-testing may have to come with cssu-testing-enabler. If anything18:12
merlin1991kerio: the enabler will depend on "cssu-catalogues" and there is going to be a package for each cssu-flavour18:13
keriohm, what decides the domain for a package?18:13
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: sounds sane18:13
freemangordonfinally, microb-engine is built, hip hip hooray18:14
kerioDocScrutinizer05: unless the cssu-catalogues package itself becomes a system package18:14
DocScrutinizer05kerio: ??18:14
kerioi don't know what packages are marked as "only install from trusted repos"18:15
kerioit could even be "all packages that are in trusted repos"18:15
DocScrutinizer05ooh, the foundation rationale for making cssu catalogs "system/trusted". Yeah I still fail to get the whole picture of that as well18:16
merlin1991kerio: trusted repo goes as fast only trusted repo package with higher priority can override package from other trusted repo18:16
kerioand i ask yet again: why can't we just make HAM ignore all that noise?18:17
kerioit's literally two gconf keys from PR1.3, and then we can install our HAM that stops caring18:17
DocScrutinizer05it kinda feels like a move into wrong direction, I agree18:17
kerioi mean, it's not like you can protect yourself from evil repos, anyway18:18
kerioyou just need to prompt *one* upgrade for a non-system package and you're running shit as root18:18
* kerio throws his 0.02 on "drop the 'trust' nonsense, it's not like i trust nokia anyway"18:22
DocScrutinizer05I'm even unclear about whether al this is about trust at all18:23
DocScrutinizer05or some priorisation thing, or just about disabling deletion of repos in HAM, or whatever18:23
DocScrutinizer05so pretty please (no sarcasm): could somebody with more clue explain the rationale behind all that to me?18:24
merlin1991remove the ugly hack from ham18:24
merlin1991that's the rationale18:24
DocScrutinizer05hmm, remove a ugly hack to get a ugly UX from a nice HAM code?18:25
merlin1991there was a really ugly hack in plase over apt-worker to allow for cssu and other fun replacing system packages18:26
DocScrutinizer05for now I don't think I perceive this as an improvement that any end user benefits from18:26
merlin1991which also prompted the possibility of installing all kinds of system packges from -extras18:26
DocScrutinizer05I just drop a sidenote here: development is not for developers to enjoy the code, development ideally is targeted at end users appreciating the result18:27
DocScrutinizer05otherwise this whole enterprise was academic18:28
DocScrutinizer05a) define UX, b) define what needs to be done in software to get that UX, c) find nice code to achieve a) thru b)18:30
DocScrutinizer05idle patching on level c) only valid if you take care that neither a) nor b) see any impact18:31
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DocScrutinizer05seems this principle got forgotten a lot, recently, in cssu18:33
kerioDocScrutinizer05: the rationale behind the domain thing is on http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/repos-devel.html18:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: thanks a lot :-)18:35
freemangordonmerlin1991: need osso-gnome-vfs2 too18:37
kerioDocScrutinizer05: from what's written there, it's just a matter of gpg keys18:37
kerioso we don't need the actual repositories in HAM at all18:38
kerioDocScrutinizer05: and it's basically apt priority, but with gpg keys18:41
freemangordonmerlin1991: ping18:44
merlin1991freemangordon: done18:45
freemangordonthanks18:46
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: would you be ok with it if we only shipped the domain information for the keys in those repos, but not the repos themselves?18:49
keriothose repos=community-thumb and maybe also community-devel18:49
keriofreemangordon: have you done all the updates then?18:57
freemangordonyep18:58
freemangordonfuck, does not boot :(18:58
freemangordonseems like xserver is broken :(19:00
freemangordonkerio: can you risk a reflash?19:01
freemangordonor BM restore19:01
keriohell naw19:02
freemangordonok19:02
keriohold on, didn't you just recompile everything?19:02
kerioshouldn't it be the exact same thing?19:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: as long as the domain/key info doesn't alter UX I'm all fine with it19:03
kerioyeah, yeah, it would be just hidden19:03
DocScrutinizer05I actually never wrapped my head around how HAM7apt is suuposed to get the signature keys of any repo19:04
freemangordonkerio: yes, but with newer compiler19:05
freemangordon4.7.219:05
kerioDocScrutinizer05: apt-key :)19:05
keriofreemangordon: i see19:05
DocScrutinizer05good point :-)19:05
keriofreemangordon: do you really need me to test the new xserver? :s19:08
* kerio runs a BM backup19:08
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: not planning to pester you, but see how bugs sneak in. Now if a bug doesn't result in instant boot-failure but maybe introduces more sneaky hidden problems, we also get a problem with our quality requirements on cssu-'genuine'19:08
DocScrutinizer05just saying: not even a "simple rebuild" is free of risk, and somebody needs to test every build19:10
kerioof course, that's what we're here for :D19:10
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: and that is what I am doing right now :)19:11
DocScrutinizer05kerio: we're simply not enough people here willing to do in-depth tests, to accomplish that task for a large number of packages19:11
* kerio notes that right now, on a public repo, there's an xserver .deb that doesn't work19:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: we can just increase the number of packages19:12
DocScrutinizer05kerio: hm? if you're saying we can go package-by-package on our own pace... sure we can19:13
DocScrutinizer05but to be honest I don't see any decent in-depth tests getting performed on any arbitrary single package right now19:15
DocScrutinizer05~lart wiki.maemo.org19:16
* infobot executes killall -HUP wiki.maemo.org19:16
DocScrutinizer05might help19:16
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: no, we just release so many that we can't be expected to test them all correctly19:19
kerioso people will be more understanding :319:19
DocScrutinizer05haha19:21
DocScrutinizer05>>Quality is of paramount importance to the Community SSU. There are, therefore, two repositories: testing and stable. Changes are carefully tested, with an extensive set of tests, before things are made "stable".<<19:21
keriofreemangordon: found the problem? i have a backup19:21
freemangordoninstalling again19:21
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nowhere it says that the packages in those two repositories have quality, though :D19:21
kerioit's just really important to us19:21
kerioQuality is of paramount importance to the Community SSU. That's why we keep it for ourselves, and only release buggy shit.19:22
freemangordonyeah, it is deffinitely xserver that is broken lets find why19:24
freemangordonthough I can simply compile it with 4.6.2 and investigate tomorrow19:24
kerioit would be better, yes :)19:29
keriowhere do you compile, btw?19:29
kerioand how?19:29
kerioscratchbox?19:29
freemangordonyes19:40
freemangordonmerlin1991: could you delete xserver from the repo?19:40
merlin1991on my way19:40
merlin1991done19:41
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i can't believe you still don't have cssu-thumb on one of your n900s, though :c19:51
DocScrutinizer05kerio: my time is rather limited to do all the nice things I _could_ do :-/19:55
freemangordonmerlin1991: i think to use the old package for xserver, despite it has broken versioning19:56
DocScrutinizer05better19:56
freemangordonany objections?19:56
DocScrutinizer05no pretty version string can make up for real working property19:56
DocScrutinizer05IOW better have a nice package with a broken version, than a broken package with a nice version19:59
freemangordon:nod:19:59
freemangordonjust too tired now to get through all xsever debugging19:59
DocScrutinizer05then better postpone it, debugging while tired is useless20:00
freemangordonexactly20:00
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fw190I think that my question started a little war20:02
fw190:)20:02
freemangordonmerlin1991: I need -mp thing deleted from the repo :)20:04
keriofw190: nah20:04
kerioactually, thank you for exposing a minor problem20:04
fw190maemo-ssu is hot as usuall :)20:05
freemangordonmerlin1991: ping20:08
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DocScrutinizer05fw190: many thanks for making us aware of this issue20:10
fw190freemengordon: If you need someone to test I can :) BM is there so and a reflash is not scarry :)20:12
freemangordonfw190: hopefully when merlin1991 appears there will be a new update :)20:13
fw190ok. tu sum up. I should jus hit ther link from tmo first post?20:17
freemangordonyep20:17
freemangordonjust wait for the new update though20:18
fw190roger :)20:18
freemangordon:)20:18
keriofreemangordon: does the new xorg work?20:18
keriowell, the old xorg20:18
freemangordonyes, you have it installed on your device20:18
freemangordonI reupload the same package20:18
keriooh you :320:19
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DocScrutinizer05reminds me of some acient TV advert for Palmolive dish deteregent: "you're just bathing your fingers in it...." - dunno why20:22
keriofreemangordon: but... the version is wrong!20:23
DocScrutinizer05yes20:23
freemangordonbut... it works20:23
keriobut... the version is wrong!20:23
DocScrutinizer05that's the point20:23
DocScrutinizer05it *works*20:24
keriofreemangordon: can't you change the version in the package?20:24
freemangordonand i doubt there will be xorg update in CSSU ever20:24
kerioor is it compiled?20:24
keriofreemangordon: you're showing a surprising lack of futureproofing :c20:24
freemangordonkerio: it is compiled and I don;t want to risk another broken build20:24
freemangordonkerio: it is only one package, we can alter the epoch if needed20:24
keriofreemangordon: hm, to be fair 2:1.6.99.1-0osso20090208.108+0m5+0cssu0+thumb0 will be greater than what we have now20:25
kerioi think20:25
merlin1991freemangordon: removed20:25
keriono, actually it won't be20:25
keriobut whatever20:25
* DocScrutinizer05 can see pissibility of Xorg updates in cssu20:25
freemangordonmerlin1991: thanks20:25
DocScrutinizer05hehe pissibility20:25
merlin1991also I can't even take a nice shower without you wanting me to remove something :D20:25
keriomerlin1991: i want you to remove xorg, because the version is wrong D:20:26
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: XD20:26
freemangordonhehe20:26
merlin1991btw freemangordon you can alter the version in the old package aswell ;)20:26
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: schedule some lessons to teach me stand-in. Might also help when you're in holiday or get hit by a bus ;-D20:26
keriomerlin1991: not the version string compiled in the binary, though20:27
merlin1991kerio: the binary contains one aswell?20:27
kerioi hope so?20:27
merlin1991that is derived from the debian version?20:27
DocScrutinizer05prolly not20:27
fw190freemangordon: could you ping me when the time is right for starting?20:27
merlin1991highly unlikely20:27
freemangordonfw190: in 10 minutes20:27
fw190roger :)20:28
keriofreemangordon: hm, you could do what merlin1991 said20:29
kerioso we won't have a handful of package with the wrong versioning20:29
merlin1991kerio: I couldn't find any -v / --version / whatever command towards Xorg20:29
keriomerlin1991: how do you change a deb?20:29
keriomerlin1991: yeah, me neither20:29
freemangordonthe fuck "dpkg - warning: downgrading libosso-gnomevfs2-common from 2.16.3-2osso12+0m5+0cssu1.1 to 2.16.3-2osso12+0m5+0cssu1+thumb1"20:29
kerioit's a downgrade, yes20:29
kerioalso wtf, why is it cssu1.1?20:30
merlin1991freemangordon: 0cssu1.1 vs 0cssu120:30
freemangordoni see, but why?20:30
freemangordonwhy it is 1.120:30
freemangordon1.1 is -for -devel, not for stable20:30
freemangordon-testing20:30
merlin1991because "1" was badly thumb compiled in -testing20:31
merlin1991aka mags scratchbox fun20:31
freemangordonbut why not 2?20:31
merlin1991becuase it was only a recompile and thus a minor change? I dunno20:31
merlin1991kerio: you can use for example dpkg -x and dpkg -b to extract change and rebuild a .deb20:32
merlin1991or you can go straight to the fun and use ar and tar (ar is the outer archive with tar archives inside)20:32
keriomerlin1991: sounds dirty20:33
keriofreemangordon: do eeeet20:33
merlin1991:D20:33
freemangordonanyway, i fixed the version in -thumb20:34
DocScrutinizer05you're nasty pushing freemangordon when he already said he's too tired to do proper debugging20:36
DocScrutinizer05;-D20:36
kerioDocScrutinizer05: yesterday i suggested meth20:37
DocScrutinizer05seen that20:37
DocScrutinizer05see what it got you?20:37
keriono, i'm complaining because he didn't follow my suggestion and went drinking instead :(20:38
DocScrutinizer05meth transforms your brain into a swiss cheese with huge holes20:38
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freemangordonfw190: you should be good to go20:42
fw190ok20:42
fw190starting launch sequence ;p20:42
DocScrutinizer05aaaand liftoff!20:43
fw190no20:44
fw190HAM is still working20:44
fw190I'm on the ground20:44
fw190;)20:44
DocScrutinizer05don't worry, space won't vanish20:44
fw190checking for updates...20:44
kerioi propose http://www.wpclipart.com/food/meat/pork/whole_ham.png as the new HAM icon20:44
fw190I have only extras so it's quick20:45
fw190question20:45
fw190should I hit update all20:45
fw190or just maemo20:45
DocScrutinizer05errr20:45
freemangordonmaemo20:46
DocScrutinizer05what else is in there?20:46
freemangordonlibqtm20:46
fw190qt stuf20:46
freemangordonfw190: only mameo update20:46
fw190ok20:46
keriomaemo, not mameo!20:46
DocScrutinizer05oooh *YOU* fscked my marble qtlineedit?20:46
fw19037,9mb - download started20:47
kerioDocScrutinizer05: not unless you've been using cssu-thumb!20:47
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: not me, you don;t use -thumb20:47
freemangordonfw190: did you look at how much space will be freed?20:47
* DocScrutinizer05 waves and hopes for making it out the door for dinner20:48
keriofreemangordon: ooh, why did you recompile modest?20:48
fw190damn forgot to take a look20:49
fw190it's updating20:49
keriofscking messybox, why doesn't your grep have a way to have a pattern that starts with "-"?20:51
fw190it said to me that the update went well20:51
fw190reeboot ;)20:51
keriooh no, -- works there too20:52
keriofreemangordon: alright, packages with still a busted version (that i have installed): busybox-power, curl, fennec, libcurl3, xserver-xomap, xserver-xorg-core20:54
kerioof those, only xserver is in the metapackage afaik20:54
kerioactually no, libcurl3 is also there20:54
keriohey mr freemangordon! you forgot one!20:54
keriofreemangordon: and it's one of the problematic ones D:20:55
freemangordonkerio: what?20:55
keriooh no, you haven't forgotten about that20:55
freemangordonwhich one20:55
keriohm20:55
keriono, nvm20:55
freemangordonkerio: look here http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1267008&postcount=66620:55
kerioi just didn't have it in the repo20:55
* DocScrutinizer05 watches kerio playing shock-the-monkey with fmg20:56
fw190works fo rme20:56
keriofw190: yeah, yours is a new install20:56
keriofreemangordon: i disapprove20:56
keriobut it should work20:56
* freemangordon is too tired to be shocked by anything but a lack of jack daniels 20:57
keriofreemangordon: hm, why does the "new" curl want me to install libidn11?20:57
keriois that intended?20:57
fw190freemangordon: should I rn any tests? commands? for you?20:57
freemangordonkerio: read what I posted and follow the instructions ATL LEAST ONCE20:58
freemangordonfw190: well use you device20:58
merlin1991~lart ham20:58
* infobot whips out his power stapler and staples ham's foot to the floor20:58
keriofreemangordon: dude, the only package i've yet to upgrade is curl20:58
kerioup/downgrade20:58
freemangordonwell, running a script worths nothing20:58
DocScrutinizer05infobot, that's useless. HAM doesn't move feet anyway20:59
kerioit would do jack shit to me, i already have those exact versions installed20:59
keriohold on, what?21:00
keriothe new mp wants me to remove procps21:00
DocScrutinizer05:-S21:00
freemangordonkerio: remove what?21:00
keriooh ffs, it depends on busybox-symlinks-procps21:01
freemangordonbusybox-power there?21:01
keriono, wait21:01
* DocScrutinizer05 runs before kerio got a chance to play shock teh monkey with him too21:01
kerioyep, the new mp-fremantle-community-pr, even the non-thumby one, depends on busybox-symlinks-procps21:02
freemangordonyep21:02
kerioand that's bullshit21:02
freemangordonask merlin199121:02
freemangordon:D21:02
keriomerlin1991: that's bullshit21:02
merlin1991kerio: it isn#t21:03
merlin1991compare with pr1.3 mp21:03
DocScrutinizer05:-/   rc  procps                              1:3.2.7-11maemo1+0m5                /proc file system utilities21:06
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DocScrutinizer05lol, byebye mp-fremantle-community-pr21:11
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DocScrutinizer05ii  procps                              1:3.2.7-11maemo1+0m5                /proc file system utilities21:16
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# dpkg -l mp-fremantle-community-pr21:16
DocScrutinizer05pn  mp-fremantle-community-pr           <none>                              (no description available)21:16
kerioDocScrutinizer05: lol indeed21:19
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keriomerlin1991: i don't care about the pr1.3 mp21:20
kerioi care about the fact that procps isn't installable now21:20
DocScrutinizer05I wonder if it ever been, or21:21
DocScrutinizer05I accepted any breakage when I installed it last time21:21
DocScrutinizer05it's obviously no gnu-ified pkg anyway21:21
kerionope, the old mp had no mentions of busybox at all21:22
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DocScrutinizer05hmmm :-/21:22
kerioDocScrutinizer05: should procps Provide busybox-symlinks-procps?21:22
kerioit sounds... backwards21:22
DocScrutinizer05for sure not?21:22
DocScrutinizer05does it?21:23
kerioit doesn't21:23
keriootherwise there would be no such breakage21:23
keriointerestly enough, busybox-symlinks-procps replaces, provides and conflicts with procps21:23
keriothat's bullshit, it doesn't provide procps at all21:23
DocScrutinizer05if anything, any MP should ask for provides:procps, not any weird busybox package21:23
kerioMPs are the devil, anyway21:24
keriogoddammit why do i need community-ssu-enabler?21:25
DocScrutinizer05otoh, you coukd argue that only busybox-symlinks-procps guarantees availability during early boot?21:25
kerioDocScrutinizer05: procps doesn't come close to /opt21:26
DocScrutinizer05kerio: because it has awesome new repositories and an undo I don't have a clue how to even invoke it21:26
DocScrutinizer05(/opt) indeed21:26
kerioDocScrutinizer05: it's like community-ssu-disabler21:26
keriooh wtf21:27
kerioprocps is fscked too21:27
kerio/etc/init.d/procps: Set kernel variables from /etc/sysctl.conf21:27
keriowhat the FUCK21:27
DocScrutinizer05LOLOLOLandCHEERS21:27
DocScrutinizer05kerio: sort that shit out, I expect to see a solution when I'm back from dinner! ;-P21:28
kerioi just uninstalled procps21:28
kerioi still don't want pali's weird catalogues all over my ham, though21:28
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fw190ok I'm an idiot and installed uboot from pali, rebooted and...21:37
keriolol21:37
keriofw190: after installing thumb?21:37
fw190Is there any chance fix this without reflash21:38
keriosure21:38
keriowell, it's still a reflash21:38
keriobut only the kernel is flashed :)21:38
fw190kerio: yes- jus as I told - I'm an idiot21:38
Paliflasher can load kernel without flashing21:38
kerioPali: well, eventually he'll want a kernel that can boot a thumby system flashed21:38
fw190I was uable to install uboot image from HAM why is that?21:38
Paliso download kernel-cssu-bootimg deb package21:39
Paliunpack kernel from it and boot it via flasher21:39
Paliand maemo will be running and install this package21:39
Paliset cssu kernel image as default for uboot, reboot and everything should work21:40
fw190pali: thanks for the tips but flashing will be easier for me I think21:40
kerioPali: are you absolutely sure that the domain thing works as intended?21:41
keriobecause the HAM documentation states that the domain of a package is only determined by the key used to sign it21:41
Palikerio, what is bad with ham domains?21:41
Palithat is not true21:41
Paliham checking for gpg key and apt repository (like output from apt-policy)21:42
Palisee source code21:42
keriohm21:42
keriok21:42
Paliand ham doing its own gpg key checking21:42
Paliit not using system apt-key (/etc/apt/gpgsomething) database21:43
Palibut it loads gpg keys from /usr/share/hildon-app...21:43
fw190does anyonne have diret link to flasher and images?21:44
fw190maemo wiki doesn't load21:44
Palifor kernel-cssu?21:45
Paliyou need to flash only kernel...21:45
fw190I wanted to but I have to download the flasher21:46
fw190as it's not my pc21:47
fw190and I have to install it first21:47
kerioDocScrutinizer05: to be fair procps is a weird-ass package from sdk tools21:47
kerioso i feel that we don't have a right to complain21:48
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fredrinLaphai guise21:49
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Pali~flashing21:51
infobot[maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware21:51
keriofredrinLap: hai21:52
fredrinLapkerio: :)21:53
fredrinLapreboot now, so fare soo goood21:53
fredrinLapok, seams ok21:55
fredrinLapjust ran the freemangordon script21:55
keriofredrinLap: do you mind pasting the output of a command for me?21:55
fredrinLapsure21:55
keriodpkg -l | grep -- -thumb21:55
fredrinLapjust see if ssh is working again21:55
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fredrinLapWorked when I restarted the ssh init script21:58
fredrinLaphow to check why it dont start at boot?21:58
kerioworksforme21:59
kerio\_o_/21:59
keriodo you have syslog enabled?21:59
fredrinLapkerio: here it comes22:05
fredrinLapii  busybox-power         1.20.2power1-thumb0                     Tiny utilities for small and embedded system22:05
fredrinLapii  hildon-thumbnail      3.0.51+0m5                              Thumbnail library related programs.22:05
fredrinLapii  libhildon-thumbnail0  3.0.51+0m5                              Thumbnail library.22:05
fredrinLapii  libnspr4              1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0-thumb1  Netscape Portable Runtime Library22:05
fredrinLapii  libnss3               1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0-thumb1  Network Security Service Libraries - runtime22:05
fredrinLapii  libnss3-certs         1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0-thumb1  Network Security Service Libraries - runtime22:05
fredrinLapii  xserver-xomap         2:1.6.99.1-0osso20090208.108+0m5-thumb0 Meta-package for X-related things22:05
fredrinLapii  xserver-xorg-core     2:1.6.99.1-0osso20090208.108+0m5-thumb0 Xorg X server - core server22:05
keriohm22:05
keriofreemangordon: you forgot libnspr4, libnss3, libnss3-certs22:05
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keriofredrinLap: you should run apt-get install libnspr4=1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0+thumb0 libnss3=1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0+thumb0 libnss3-certs=1:20100401-1.9.2-5.2+0m5+0cssu0+thumb022:06
fredrinLapkerio: done22:08
fredrinLapreboot?22:08
merlin1991kerio: those are part of libcurl iirc22:08
kerionah, it's not really important22:08
keriomerlin1991: nope, microb-engine22:09
* merlin1991 headdesks22:09
merlin1991yeah you're right :D22:09
keriofredrinLap: the version change is just a version change, the underlying source is still the same22:09
kerioalthough freemangordon used it to recompile everything with a newer compiler22:09
kerioso stuff should be slightly faster22:09
fredrinLapkerio: ok22:09
keriofreemangordon: see, this kind of thing is what happens when you try to do things manually instead of letting apt do what it does best22:11
kerio>;)22:12
fredrinLaphum, tried to install debianutils, then apt wanted me to remove 442MB of essential packages...22:22
ShadowJKinstalling stuff from non-maemo repositories is a bad idea? :)22:23
DocScrutinizer51ohhi ShadowJK22:24
kerioShadowJK: it's in extras-devel22:24
keriono, wait22:25
DocScrutinizer51kerio: I didn't exactly complain about procps22:25
kerioDocScrutinizer51: it's kind of a mess, though22:25
DocScrutinizer51just mentioning I thought I once got it installed22:26
DocScrutinizer51well, maybe I shouldn't complain at all. Maybe if we ship another few annoyances time is right for deploying a proper migration untility to go T->S22:28
DocScrutinizer51it's just I thought T is testing for fitness to go S, not to do general fieldtest of beta versions22:30
DocScrutinizer51since that's what cssu-devel is meant to be22:31
DocScrutinizer51I'll try harder to nsist in independant *decent* testing prior to me shouting "yea" for any inclusion to cssu-t22:34
DocScrutinizer51insist* even22:34
kerioDocScrutinizer51: hey, blame merlin199122:35
keriohe's the dude with the release22:35
DocScrutinizer51obviously devels are generally incapable to have a critical glance on their own babies (incl me of course)22:36
DocScrutinizer51I'll blame merlin1991 for not discussing here what to include to cssu, like we did a year ago22:37
DocScrutinizer51I'll also consider to blame him for not picking up on my offer to play guinea pig and install from a non-official repo prior to rollout22:39
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon already agreed on us needing to revive the IRC discussions what to (not) include to next T release22:41
kerioDocScrutinizer51: i hope for you that community-ssu-enabler uninstalls nicely :D22:42
keriobut of course, it can't22:42
DocScrutinizer51and any sane developer won't want to take sole responsibility for a patch and rather discusses it with peers, usually here22:42
DocScrutinizer51hope for me? How am I concerned about it?22:43
kerioyou were pretty upset by the catalogue thing22:44
kerioi meant you as a user22:44
DocScrutinizer51aah22:46
DocScrutinizer51well22:46
DocScrutinizer51we'll see22:47
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DocScrutinizer51I was more upset on how it crept in than on the fact it did22:48
keriohehe22:48
keriotbh i vote for the removal of the silly domain thing22:48
DocScrutinizer51tricky stuff22:49
DocScrutinizer51needs nights of discussion22:49
* kerio looks at the sky outside22:49
keriohey, it is night!22:49
DocScrutinizer51you don't rush n and improve stuff 20 other experienced devels tailored over weeks and months22:50
kerioDocScrutinizer51: ...are we talking about the same HAM?22:51
DocScrutinizer51if 10 experienced devels look at the code, ideally recall how it happened, and decide unisono "that's a bug", then fine22:52
DocScrutinizer51kerio: this is about a maintenance concept much much larger than silly HAM22:52
DocScrutinizer51and today you've seen live what happens when just picking pkg names or versions lightheaded22:54
kerioyeah, yeah22:54
DocScrutinizer51how much moe impact to expect from stuff like that trust shit22:55
kerioon the other hand, completely disabling that priority system is what CSSU has done from the first version until now22:55
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kerio(it's what the wrapper around apt-worker did, it forcefed it the option to ignore the domains)22:55
kerioso we do have a lot of "field testing" for it22:57
DocScrutinizer05so we might want to stay with it, unless somebody comes up with a really good story why and how we can do better, and what exactly are the benefits from that doing-better23:02
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hold on, that can be parsed as supporting both ways23:03
DocScrutinizer05and I'm definitely blaming Pali for not initiating and leading this discussion here23:03
fredrinLapwhat's this blame game?23:05
kerioshirley shirley bo birley banana fana fo firley23:05
DocScrutinizer05if you come up with something you think is better, be prepared for bashing. It's always been like that, and it's in best interest of the project, since when you can defend your idea against all bashing it must have a good point to it23:05
keriono, wait, that's the name game23:05
fredrinLapI'm with DocScrutinizer05, he's the oldest23:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: *only* when you can defend your idea against all bashing it *could* have a good point to it23:06
merlin1991can we stop the blamegame?23:06
keriobut it's a fun game!23:06
kerioand it's DocScrutinizer05's fault for starting it, anyway23:06
DocScrutinizer05blame is nothing negative23:06
DocScrutinizer05hell, there's even a "blame" button in gitorious23:07
DocScrutinizer05if devels think you're blame-worthy, feel honoured23:08
kerioDocScrutinizer05: anyway, fixing the kludgy apt-worker wrapper was something to be done23:08
DocScrutinizer05how much worse would be an ignore23:08
keriootoh, there was a cleaner way to do the same thing23:08
kerio(ignore the HAM domains)23:09
kerioi'm not sure if it's something that only works with redpill mode enabled, though23:09
keriothat would be a UX change23:09
DocScrutinizer05we need to help each other to do our lessons here, understand what it's all about with this stuff, and discuss what we think is best direction to go23:11
keriothat would be a UX change23:12
keriowhoops, sorry23:12
DocScrutinizer05unless we know that best direction, not moving at all is better than walking a minefield in the dark23:12
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kerioi wonder if that was a ragequit23:15
DocScrutinizer05(blame) as long as you're not on par with devels/hackers (in their POV) you'll just see a "forget it" or simply silence. As soon as you achive to attract their attention so they even criticise your work (aka blame), you're already one of them23:16
DocScrutinizer05who quit?23:16
keriopali :)23:16
DocScrutinizer05yayayay23:17
kerioRemote host closed the connection23:17
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: otoh, you could argue that adding the cssu repos as official "system" repos was something to be done, eventually23:19
DocScrutinizer05sure23:19
kerioand the cute side effect for cssu-thumb is that packages won't be upgraded to nonthumb23:19
DocScrutinizer05I#m not averse to that, as long as it's the right repos for my distro/flavour23:20
kerioDocScrutinizer05: what i'm not convinced about is the need to add *the repos* to the list23:20
kerioi mean, the domain file and the catalogs file are completely different23:21
kerioso you could just add the domain information and the keys on the side, and just keep the user in control of the repos23:21
DocScrutinizer05for now (unconfirmed by evaluation) I think cssu-testing-installer should install cssu-t repo as system repo, and cssu-stable-installer should install cssu-s repo. And probably thumb needs a similar installer23:21
keriothat they'll just automagically work23:21
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merlin1991hm the packages for the domain and catalogue entry have to be a single package each, so create a component on giorious for each one / have them in the cssu-enabler tree / create 1 component on gitorious and have all 4 in there23:47
merlin1991thoughts?23:47
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