IRC log of #maemo-ssu for Monday, 2012-08-20

« Sunday, 2012-08-19 Index Tuesday, 2012-08-21 »
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AapoRantalainenI'm planning to push new game to the extras-devel, but it needs one workaround (unless it crash on startup): "echo style=GTK+  >> /home/user/.config/Trolltech.conf", what would be equality without messing users configs?12:52
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keriowtf is Trolltech.conf?16:28
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merlin1991kerio: that's Qt related16:30
merlin1991qt used to be made by trolltech16:31
keriowhy would i have qt in the style of gtk+?16:31
merlin1991i guess some legacy code still uses trolltech as a company name when accessing settings16:31
kerioAapoRantalainen: will that change have a chance of breaking anything else?16:34
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merlin1991hm bug #12652 looks serious16:50
povbot_Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/12652 WiFi bad 50_ipv4_network_setup script drains battery after disconnect16:50
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merlin1991Sc0rpius: please have a look @ bug #1203716:51
povbot_Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/12037 Add push support to modest without depending on ovi mail16:51
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merlin1991andre__: I see you've been busy with tracking upstream trackers? :D17:01
merlin1991how do you manage to stay on top of that amount of bugreports?17:01
andre__merlin1991, I just went thru the CVE list of mitre17:02
andre__and looked for debian and redhat17:02
merlin1991:)17:02
merlin1991people have been piling up work since I've gone on vacation17:02
merlin1991I'll probably need 2 days to get everything done that is at my hands by now xD17:03
merlin1991I'm almost finished doing my mails now :D17:05
merlin1991the kind of spam I get lately is worrying17:08
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: ping17:10
merlin1991hm I sort of have to laugh when I read point #4 here: http://maemo.org/community/council/council_logs_for_meeting_on_august_10th-2012/17:16
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chem|stmerlin1991:  darn hell... having  two  weeks off seems to let people stop working till I am back17:44
merlin1991chem|st: we should talk about the next stable release when I'm back from spain, it's about time that one happens :D17:45
chem|stmerlin1991: I am all setup, just need guideance once or twice ;) and yeah it is about time, I am off again Sept. 7th - 16th17:47
merlin1991phew we've a short timeframe from 1st to 7th then :D17:47
chem|stok, I will have 3rd-5th from the looks of now17:48
chem|stneed to talk with my gf about the upcoming weekends, will keep you posted17:48
chem|stanything I can do without you yet?17:49
merlin1991compare the state of devel and stable and think about what changes that are not in stable would be sensible to add ("new" packages that are only in testing aswell as things that are already in stable but have seen updates since)17:51
chem|stoh and 11th-14th I might be available too as I am with my sister and it shouldn't be a problem to have spare time especially as she is waiting for the next release ;)17:51
merlin1991well I'm gone to spain 25th (August) till 1st, after that I should be able to arrange pretty much everything17:52
chem|stthat sounds good to me17:52
merlin1991err also I meant compare the state of -testing and -stable17:52
chem|stgot it yes17:52
merlin1991-devel is yet another story :D17:52
merlin1991chem|st: hint: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog and http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/ChangelogStable are good to compare stuff :D17:54
chem|stwill have a look tonight17:55
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keriomerlin1991: changes you should really make: operator-name-cbs-widget should hold the actual files, and it should provide and replace connui-home-cellular18:21
kerioright now, -devel has o-n-c-w as a transitional package, and connui-home-cellular is actually updated18:21
keriowhich would be hell for me, because it's horrendously broken18:22
kerioi should tell pali this, actually18:25
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DocScrutinizer06merlin1991: I'm totally resolved22:49
merlin1991DocScrutinizer06: about what?22:50
DocScrutinizer06abut #422:51
DocScrutinizer06and totally dissolved by the weather22:51
merlin1991#4? now I'm even more confused22:52
DocScrutinizer06[2012-08-20 16:16:58] <merlin1991> hm I sort of have to laugh when I read point #4 here: http://maemo.org/community/council/council_logs_for_meeting_on_august_10th-2012/22:52
merlin1991oh :P22:53
merlin1991I never got past the first half of the "resolved" sentence xD22:53
DocScrutinizer06sure you have to laugh, since that's yet another effort for an "anfriendly takeover"22:53
merlin1991I was more amused by the "CSSU team looks to have stabilized where they are going"22:53
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DocScrutinizer06may I translate?22:54
Estel_I must admit I laughed very hard when reading it...22:54
merlin1991DocScrutinizer06: humor me22:54
DocScrutinizer06you won't be amused22:55
merlin1991well then enlighten me22:55
DocScrutinizer06since my translation is dark sarcasm like usual22:55
Estel_seriously though, I'm sure that ivgalvez doesn't have any "malicious intentions", and he was the one attending (more or less) to that metting22:55
Estel_s/metting/meeting/22:55
infobotEstel_ meant: seriously though, I'm sure that ivgalvez doesn't have any "malicious intentions", and he was the one attending (more or less) to that meeting22:55
Estel_mating ;)22:55
Estel_thinking about what council may think - as people outside cssu - move away from 2134242 versions of cssu floating around (including thumb one) is a "decide where cssu is going", for them22:56
DocScrutinizer06it seems they propagated some misconception about what CSSU-kernel will look like, and that now everybody agrees on what to do regarding that22:57
Estel_from a "regular user" perspective, so many versions floating was a little mess22:57
merlin1991well it's still the same amount, 4 nothing to change there22:57
Estel_You're overexagerrating things, they're just happy that cssu will contain thumb ;P22:57
merlin1991DocScrutinizer06: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2012-August/028936.html22:58
Estel_merlin1991, I'm very interested in CSSU, so I - more or less - know what is going inside. But, I can imagine, that for average user, it's kinda unknown where it's heading and what was decided during last meeting. Thus their idea about minutes.22:58
Estel_While I don't agree with what 3/4 of Council is doing, (or 7/10?), trying to be fair, i don't see any "unfriendly takeover" thyere22:59
Estel_unfriendly takeover will happen, when they will take TMO database, repos, etc, under "hildon foundation" (they've created) wings, without referendum :P22:59
DocScrutinizer06merlin1991: :nod:22:59
Estel_merlin1991, for me mailing list entry is enough, but I'm 99% sure that they are not aware about this letter23:00
Estel_+ annoucement in maemo.org news would be great23:00
merlin1991Estel_: my main point of humor is, if I look at "CSSU team looks to have stabilized where they are going" I fail to see when we got off the track :D23:00
Estel_which is funny, as they're ones that can make such annoucement, copying it from mailing list, as CSSU doesn't have access for posting news23:00
Estel_merlin1991, yea23:01
merlin1991Estel_: I just wrote that mail today23:01
Estel_it was written in hopeless way23:01
DocScrutinizer06maemo.org news = MWKN?23:01
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, no, news on maemo.org "news" section23:01
DocScrutinizer06umm23:01
Estel_merlin1991, blame Woody, he write those "summaries" everytime, and they're kinda offensive many times23:01
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, as for MWKN, sopmeone could just ping Generalantillies or Jaffa about it23:02
Estel_it deserves to be covered in MWKN23:02
merlin1991come on Estel, I also didn't say it was bad/offensive/whatever I just stated that reading it gave me a good laugh at the time :D23:02
* Estel_ nods23:02
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Estel_sure, "offensive" was just my perception (and iot seems that I'm not alone, as DocScrutinizer06 wrote about "unfriendly takeover")23:03
Estel_somehow, it kinda sounds like such "unfriendly takeoveR", i'm just sure that it wasn't their intention23:03
Estel_I agree that it's nothing more than material for a good laugh23:03
Estel_and no real problem23:03
DocScrutinizer06my unfriendly takeover quote been a feeling I varbalized that stemmed from this chan latest battles/rand/bitching as well as reading the meeting logs23:04
DocScrutinizer06rant*23:05
Estel_meeting logs = meeting about cssu or council's meeting? I admit I haven't seen the latter23:06
DocScrutinizer06council23:06
Estel_I see. BTW, You were battling/ranting/bitching with council here? Or, if not, who is the "unfriendly takeover" deus ex machina?23:06
DocScrutinizer06rather #maemo-meeting23:06
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DocScrutinizer06nope23:07
* Estel_ is going to read those logs23:07
merlin1991hm is there somewhere a proper page to see latest packages that got added to the maemo.org  repos?23:07
DocScrutinizer06lol, somebody else asked that 3 days ago23:07
DocScrutinizer06he asked for a dpkg or apt cmd though23:07
merlin1991well I'm more interested on the repository side :)23:08
merlin1991reading the second sentence of ##Topic3 in http://maemo.org/community/council/community_council_meeting-august_17th-2012/23:08
DocScrutinizer06need to repeat a post my carrier ate, over at #maemo23:08
DocScrutinizer06bbl23:08
Estel_I've jsut finished reading logs (amazing, only few dozens of lines...)23:08
Estel_what I'm more worried about, is pursue to push Hildon Foundation as owner of TMO and repos data, without asking anyone (i.e. Communityt) via referendum23:08
Estel_sure, anyone can continue work on maemo after nokia pull plugs, but not everyone will got access to tmo and repositories (COBS) thing. Claiming such access, as "board of directors" without referendum is something I would call "unfriendly takeover"23:09
Estel_what amazes me even more, is that no one seems to be really interested in referendum about it - well, maybe I'm the only one concerned (citching?) about it23:10
merlin1991hm just read the chanlog of #maemo-meeting, it seems that someone made a mistake when writing the minutes23:10
Estel_which feels strange, as I though that DocScrutinizer06 will be loudest person advocating need for referendum, before pushing changes that change Council bylaws, and before putting precious database under wings of 3rd party organisation :|D23:11
Estel_merlin1991,  noo, it's just that person writing minutes have quite strange interpretation of logs, and enforce them into minutes. He have a big history of doing so23:12
Estel_probably just abusing fact, that 90% of people read minutes, not full logs, so he can "shape facts" by writing minutes that doesn't reffer precisely to logs.23:12
Estel_at least my POV, feel free to disagree23:12
DocScrutinizer06err, sorry, what's the change of council responsibilities and duties, and esp the change in community's influence on council, when some nerds mess with tmo? (not that I like the idea)23:16
DocScrutinizer06also I seem to recall somebody said it's nonsense to elect/appoint an interim council/other-entity now for just 5 weeks, OWTTE23:17
DocScrutinizer06honestly I never cared about council too much, since they are not my boss but my servant, and I usually don't need a servant23:18
DocScrutinizer06I just feel pissed when a hobo stands in front of my door, unwashed and stinking, and tells everybody he's my valet23:19
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, well, hildon's foundation will have board of directors, that will manage finances too23:20
DocScrutinizer06but honestly, I don't feel like opening up that barrel again23:20
Estel_and are going to got access 0 from Nokia and Nemein - to COBS23:20
Estel_and TMO database from Reggie.23:20
merlin1991well Reggie is free todo what he wants with that db23:20
Estel_i.e when nokia pulls plug off, Hildon foundation expects to get all community belongings under foundation'23:20
Estel_foundation's weings*23:20
Estel_that's VERY different from current Council's tasks.23:20
Estel_merlin1991, he isn't, as he is contracted with Nokia23:21
Estel_also, he agreed that database is belonging to Community23:21
DocScrutinizer06yep, and that's exactly what I thought council is supposed to take care about23:21
Estel_the thing is, that theoretically, everyone is free to continue Maemo spirit in any way - via registering legal entity, etc...23:21
merlin1991hm I don't know the full details, but I got the picture that while he is contracted to keep the forums running, it is still "his" forum23:21
Estel_or other means23:21
Estel_merlin1991, thats true.23:22
Estel_well, the problem, as seen by me, is that one of efforts to continue Maemo feels that it's entitled *more* than any other to get hand on community belongings, without actual referendum23:22
DocScrutinizer06has anybody managed meanwhile to ask Reggie why he wouldn't want to continue forum in the form it's now, just with money from other source?23:23
Estel_personally, i don't see a problem in Hildon Foundation managing Community belongings, but I think that Community should be at least asked. Maybe bylaws proposed by Hildon Foundation are a no-go for most of Community?23:23
DocScrutinizer06or rather IF he wouldn't23:23
Estel_Maybe they would like other way of organising itself?23:23
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, he answered that he is not interested23:23
DocScrutinizer06when, to whom?23:23
DocScrutinizer06where?23:23
Estel_besides that, hildon foundation isn't entirely eager to pay for vbulletin license23:23
Estel_some thread on TMO, can't find it now, but it was started by Council AFAIK23:24
Estel_and was related to TMO future23:24
DocScrutinizer06suckers23:24
Estel_IIRC, vbulletin license fees were discussed there, too23:24
Estel_well, honestly, personally, I would preffer Open Source engine for powering forums - it's hillarous to use propertiary vbulleting for thing like Maemo23:25
Estel_but that's minor thing23:25
DocScrutinizer06those friggin few hundered / year23:25
Estel_main problem, from my POV, is that Council doesn't see need for using existing mechanism - referendum - to ask Community, before taking overCommunity belongings23:25
Estel_and only rationale for that is, that they think "referendum take too much time"23:25
Estel_which isn't good omen for future23:25
Estel_IMO.23:25
DocScrutinizer06referendum on WHAT?23:26
Estel_on granting Hildon Foundation repository access, and databases of forum/wiki etc23:26
Estel_i.e. asking if people want exactly this entity to continue Maemo work. If community trust this idea, agree with bylaws, etc23:26
DocScrutinizer06that's not the way the world works23:27
Estel_it's like disbanding old organisation - including current bylaws for Council (and whole Council) and replacing it with board of directors, that have *much* more power23:27
Estel_and are essentialy mix of steering group + treasurer's with access to money23:27
DocScrutinizer06nope23:27
DocScrutinizer06since council wasn't involved in any of that so far23:27
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, have You seen proposed bylaws for hildon foundation?:P23:28
Estel_LOL, wut?23:28
merlin1991Estel_: afaik nobody has23:28
Estel_Council is *very* involved in that23:28
merlin1991except council23:28
Estel_merlin1991, what nobody has?23:28
Estel_it was presented on mailing list23:28
* merlin1991 missed that23:28
Estel_there were some suggestions from community - low ammount of ones, as it's usually on mailing list (when it's not about freebie devices :P )23:29
merlin1991-developers -community -users, which one?23:29
Estel_it was meant to land on TMO too, but it's already a month overdue23:29
Estel_main one, maemo-community23:29
DocScrutinizer06I'm trusting in those who are responsible for the privacy-relevant data right now, that they won't give it to any random dude asking for it. That's meritocracy23:29
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, even Your reaction seems to confirm what i'mconcerned about - group of people is re-creating Maemo namagement, and 90% of people doesn't even know about it...23:29
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, they *will* give it to random dudes from Council, up[on requiest23:30
Estel_that's the point23:30
Estel_which essentialy elevates Council's permissions, without asking Community via referendum, if that's acceptable23:30
Estel_I'm not saying that it's so bad that Community won't agree. i'm just saying that referendum should take place, after discussing bylaws and forming it's final shape23:31
Estel_otherwise, all discussions about "how bylaws should look" is just fasade23:31
DocScrutinizer06hell, then they must have shit in their skull. Not even the boss of a company may access the user credetials database, that's unique exclusive responsibility of sysadmin23:31
Estel_after all, why care, if it's not going to be voted by Community, after all? 4 people from Council can place *anything* there, if they're not going to held referendum about agreement for bylaws23:32
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Estel_DocScrutinizer06, the thing is that via bylaws, if Nokia pulls the plug off, Board of Directors become, in practice, sysadmin mixed with keeping hand on money from donations mixed with steering group23:32
Estel_aka omnipotent23:32
DocScrutinizer06eeeeeek23:33
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Estel_well, maybe that's what Community want - if so, i'm not going to argue. But referendum is for asking such things23:33
* DocScrutinizer06 opens up the locker with the heavy calibres23:33
Estel_finally :P23:33
Estel_via byalws, in current form, board of directors replaces Council - probably elected via next election - and this board of directors is representing hildon foundation23:33
Estel_board of directors appoint treasurer23:34
Estel_which may be one of directors or someone else, and keep hand on donations for foundation23:34
Estel_at the same time, foundation - rules by board of directors - have access to repositorries, databases etc (aka being practically main sysadmin)23:34
DocScrutinizer06well, that's fair23:34
DocScrutinizer06donations are not to community after all23:34
DocScrutinizer06I'm absolutely not interested in money23:35
Estel_now, when someone tells me, that before such changesd, referendum shouldn't be run, because "it takes time", I'm little dissapointed, to say at least23:35
DocScrutinizer06I'm interested in common sense, democracy/meritocracy, and *my* data23:35
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, that's true, but at the same time, mix money with "sysadmin" things...23:35
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, sure, + access to maemo repositories, wiki database, IRC channels, and so goes on23:35
Estel_board of director may or may not still cooperate with nemein about that23:36
Estel_they can as good choose other admin, or nominate someone - from board or outside - to do what x-fade do now23:36
Estel_(using money from donations, which is fair, but at the same time, they're going to get access to *currently* usaed infrastructure, like IRC channels, wiki, probably TMO database, COBS repositories...)23:37
DocScrutinizer06It will take some time to catch up on what's going on, and that allone is a bad sign. another bad criterion is: I don't have that time ATM23:37
Estel_I'm also not concerned about money itself - after all, if someone donate money for hildon foundation, he should be aware of bylaws and accept it. I'm concerned about handing currently used databases - COBS, etc - to this foundation, without asking anyone about opinion23:37
Estel_DocScrutinizer06, sure. I also see it mroe as a bad sign for future, than a fully emerged problem - YET.23:38
Estel_the sad thing is that up to now, I was, probably, only one person concerned about that, and I'm not going to play Don Kichot ;P23:38
DocScrutinizer06I'll not accept any sysop introduced by any board, when the former sysop disagrees23:38
DocScrutinizer06easy as that23:39
Estel_sure, but who was "main boss" of former sysop?23:39
DocScrutinizer06be it COPS, TMO, whatever23:39
DocScrutinizer06doesn't matter, the sysop is my friend, not his boss23:39
Estel_I would say "community", through Nokia middle-man. And it would be fair to ask Community, if it's what is wanted23:39
DocScrutinizer06for TMO that's quite obviously been Reggie23:40
Estel_sysop will agree, as sysop sees Council role differently than You. As a governing body, more than a servant.23:40
DocScrutinizer06for the other stuff prolly x-fade23:40
Estel_yea23:40
DocScrutinizer06well, if my sysop thinks that's the way to do, what can I do?23:40
Estel_last time I checked, reggie wasn't sure what to do, but X-Fade is all ok for cooperation with Council, as community representatives. I see this as good thing, but I'm sure that when people elected Councilors, it wasn't = give them right to become sysops23:40
Estel_or change rules about sysops23:41
DocScrutinizer06tell him "delete my account incl all data, or prepare some cake for my visit"?23:41
Estel_hehe23:41
Estel_well, sysop doesn't need to be entirely informed about current situation inside Community, and who is entitled to do what. In My opinionb, council isn't entitled to pretend that it;s owner of data - including Your data - without asking Community via referendum23:42
DocScrutinizer06x-fade cooperating doesn't mean he will hand sysop "key" to council23:42
Estel_I'm afraid it means exactly that - he will handle keys to hildon foundation, upon nokia's pulling the plug off23:42
Estel_reportedly, qgil confirmed, that maemo.org domain will be handled to hildon foundation (which means it may be called maemo foundation, after all)23:42
DocScrutinizer06*sigh*23:42
DocScrutinizer06complicated stuff23:42
DocScrutinizer06AGAIN23:43
Estel_my concern is - sure, but why no referendum before that?23:43
Estel_yea23:43
DocScrutinizer06had the very same shit 4 months ago, with openmoko infra23:43
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Estel_it just seems that both Nokia and Nemein see Council s *governing* body, and council is eager to use that to obtain rights, when in fact, it *should* include asking via referendum first23:43
Estel_as it essentialy elevate Council permissions.23:43
Estel_to dangerous level.23:43
Estel_hm, how it ended? (openmoko infra)23:44
merlin1991also from where did it start?23:44
Estel_basically, from my POV, Nokia and Nemein thinks "Council is Community representative, so if Community doesn't protest, Council can obtain all rights"23:44
DocScrutinizer06no referendum needed. Council is MANAGER of accounts, by NO MEANS they may *use* those accounts23:44
DocScrutinizer06that would be gross23:44
Estel_and that's quite sane, after all, if Community don't care to opt for referendum and protest in case of it's lacking, why Nokia or nemein should (care)?23:44
DocScrutinizer06rogue23:44
Estel_define "use"23:45
DocScrutinizer06log in23:45
* Estel_ nods23:45
DocScrutinizer06play "sysadmin"23:45
DocScrutinizer06do administrative work on the technical level23:45
Estel_and if Council, renamed to Noard of Directors, don't log in personally, but nominate - in their discretion - someone as new sysadmin? isn't it the same thing as "using" it?23:45
Estel_bylaws grant them such rights.23:46
DocScrutinizer06council may appoint a new sysadmin, and ask community if that's OK23:46
Estel_well, not entirely "them" - the new Board of Directors, that is to be elected in time of usual Council's election23:46
Estel_well, scrap "ask community if that';s is okj" and you have view on situation23:46
DocScrutinizer06sure23:46
Estel_merlin1991, it started with Nokia going to pull the polug, obviously23:46
merlin1991on openmoko?23:46
DocScrutinizer06depends on integrity of council dudes if they understand what to do when you're the lord keykeeper23:47
merlin1991My question was in the same context as yours about the openmoko infra23:47
Estel_well, in my opinion, 90% of people voting for new Council (renamed to Board of Directors), are not going to acknmowledge, that at the same time they're acceptiong bylaws of new foundation, and giving it rights - in eyes of Nokia and Nemein - to obtain sysadmin rights23:47
* Estel_ nods at merlin199123:47
Estel_basically, as per my knowledge and understanding, Council stands on position, that people voting for new board of directors = instead of next Council, soon - are also voting for granting such board rights to be keykeeper (and use keys, on it's discretion)23:49
Estel_but where is option to vote for *not* granting keys? Someone not voting isn't voting for "no".23:49
DocScrutinizer06that's a silly obvious thing that the boss of sysadmin MUSt NOT be sysadmin, and the sysadmin MUST NOT be his own boss23:49
Estel_he is jsut not counted23:49
Estel_sure, but if board of directors can nominate anyone to be sysadmin, without asking anyone's opinion, it's virtually the same as being sysadmin thyemselves23:50
DocScrutinizer06not exactly23:51
Estel_my main concern is "who the hellgive them right to manage maemo's repositories, databases, etc, without referendum, i.e. asking Community"?23:51
DocScrutinizer06since Council has to stand a public discussion of all they do23:51
Estel_well, to say it hard way - You can nominate Your own dog to be sysadmin. (exaggerating things)23:51
DocScrutinizer06which is exactly what a sysadmin never will accept23:51
Estel_Council - yes, but Board of Directorts - no23:51
Estel_that's why I'm talking about elevating Council permissions23:51
Estel_which should require referendum23:51
DocScrutinizer06no such vote from me23:52
Estel_in reality, during transfer from Council -> Board of directors, they're also, silently, elevating permissions23:52
DocScrutinizer06Council is just fine with the power it has23:52
Estel_well, current Council statute tells, that changes to it require referendum23:52
DocScrutinizer06It mustn't get any more than now23:52
Estel_IMO, elevating permissions - alongside renaming to Board of directors - is as good as changing statute23:52
DocScrutinizer06indeed, you got a point there23:53
DocScrutinizer06anyway, please let me come home from my job23:53
Estel_well, they're overcoming this obstacle by na "trick" (even if without malicious intentions) - instead of changing council statute, they disband Council, and form Board of Directors, via new elections23:53
DocScrutinizer06afk23:53
Estel_this way, they think, that they can obtain more rights, without referendum required for changing Council statute (as Council won't exist anymore, replaced by board of directors)23:53
Estel_OK23:53
Estel_no problem, You have terrible working hours :)23:53
Estel_see ya later23:54
DocScrutinizer06council can't abandom council23:54
Estel_well, it's exactly the plan now :)23:54
DocScrutinizer06FIIIIIIRE!!!23:54
Estel_in plans, current cadence is last cadence of council - next election will elect Board of Directors23:54
* Estel_ nods23:54
DocScrutinizer06load, and FIIIIRE!23:54
Estel_well, wasn't I telling it from the very beginning eh? ;)23:54
Estel_come back from work safely, and I'll try to find thread, where it's discussed23:55
Estel_and post link here23:55
DocScrutinizer06hmm, nice 15kTon nuclear device there in my locker23:55
DocScrutinizer06only 50kg23:55
DocScrutinizer06fine23:56
DocScrutinizer06bbl23:56
Estel_well, in Poland, we have old silly comedy "How I've started second world war"23:56
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:57
DocScrutinizer06ooh, it seems it's even adjustable, has a dial ranging from 15 to 5023:58
RaimuGoes well over eleven.23:59
DocScrutinizer06http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Atomic_Demolition_Munition23:59
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